MOMania

By Tuesday

January 23, 2007 07:51 AM | Link to this

This is why so many kids rule their households. Kids need disclipine, and there is absolutely NOTHING wrong with a little swat on the butt when they misbehave.
This assemblywoman needs to mind her own business. The government does not need to tell me how to disclipine my child. This is where it all starts, and the kids will have absolutely NO RESPECT for authority. Kids need boundries, and if they cross them, then need to know they have done wrong. I myself swatted my kids on the butt numerous times. Not to hurt them, but to get there attention and know that I mean business. I am the boss in my house and if I choose to spank my kids, it’s my business. Sending someone to jail for disclipining their kid is absurd!!! What happens to the kid when the parent is in jail - foster care, DFACS? No way!!!! Stupid, stupid, stupid.

By beth

January 23, 2007 08:15 AM | Link to this

Its amazing that you can abort a child when he/she is a few months old, but when he/she is born you can’t spank. That says a lot about where this country is headed.

By past50mom

January 23, 2007 08:24 AM | Link to this

I agree with Tuesday, the bop on the bottom that I occasionally gave my 3 was to get their attention. I never beat them with a belt like my dad did me. Nor did I spank a bare bottom, it was always through their clothes. There are lines that people cross and adults who lose their temper with their kids can and do injure their children. However, there are already legal remedies for that kind of abuse. The majority of parents do not use spanking to hurt their children. This bill is dangerous as it would allow the State to pass judgment on your parenting, with no evidence of harm. This raises another question. One of my kids was a biter as a toddler, and the only way I broke that habit was to bite her back one day. I didn’t break the skin, but it did leave a mark and brought tears to her eyes. I said that hurts, don’t do it! And she never did it again! Should I have been arrested?

By Teacher's Kid

January 23, 2007 08:26 AM | Link to this

A-MEN Tuesday! When I was stationed out in Sandy Eggo, CA back in 1998-2000, I worked in the Pediatrics ward and also helped out in a Saturday Scholars tutoring program in Chula Vista and saw SEVERAL kids who would’ve benefitted from an “attitude adjustment” at an early age. I saw the most spoiled, obnoxious children out there and vowed that I would NEVER raise kids in California and if I had the misfortune of being stationed there with children, I’d send them to Catholic school (no one talks back to a nun or priest and lives to tell about it!). When I got back to the south for a visit, it was music to my ears to hear children address their elders by “sir” and “ma’am” and say “please” and “thank you”. Bottom line: NO state has ANY business in telling parents how to discipline their child.

By Tuesday

January 23, 2007 08:36 AM | Link to this

Past50mom I did the same thing with regards to biting. My toddler (at the time) was biting, so I bit her. She NEVER bit anyone ever again. I didn’t break the skin either, but I did scare her.

By Father and Teacher

January 23, 2007 08:49 AM | Link to this

I have to agree with most of the above. My parents punished me with corporal punishment when I was younger, my wife’s parents did not though, so we did have different upbringings when it came to this subject. We are both teachers though and after seeing how children today behave, she has no problem with us “popping” our child who is almost 3. We do pop her over her clothes once or twice, depending on her actions.
I have taught in both an urban and suburban setting and I have to say that I prefer the students in the urban setting. The urban students are respectful and polite, for the most part, and will listen to their teachers. Most of my suburban students behaved themselves, but lacked respect and were impolite.
I had a student (elementary age) when I taught in the suburban setting, who got into it with his mother one night. She went to spank him for the first time because she said she had finally had enough. Before she could get close enough to him, he ran over to the phone, picked it up and told her “touch me and I call the cops and report you for abuse.” Is this really what we want our children to behave like?
Most of the students in the suburban setting had parents that believed in “time out” and other similar punishments for infractions. The parents of my urban students don’t mess around, they are firm believers of corporal punishment, heck I have even had parents shoe up in the middle of the day to “talk” with their child after I have called them to about a problem. In some areas of Mississippi, Alabama, and Louisiana they still allow teachers to use corporal punishment. I have a big problem with the government telling me how to raise my family. I think Georgia’s law allowing it but drawing the line at physical harm is a good one.

By past50mom

January 23, 2007 08:52 AM | Link to this

Out in public the best way to get the attention of your misbehaving child is pinching the soft tissue under the upper arm. You can quietly take the child in hand, pinch while advising him to behave, then release. My mom used it on me and it worked well on my kids.

By Tuesday

January 23, 2007 09:10 AM | Link to this

Father & Teacher Interesting, with the Urban and Suburban parents and parenting styling. Why do you suppose that is? Do you think that ITP parenting differs from OTP? Just curious. What do you suppose you think is it that makes the difference? I’ve never heard that comparasion in that regard. Very interesting, please elaborate.

By Jesse's Girl

January 23, 2007 09:12 AM | Link to this

Why in the name of everything holy is this childless woman introducing legislation against spanking? Has California become a state of moral intregrity while we weren’t looking? Is there seriously nothing more worth while to give one’s attention to in good ole’s Cali? If this woman had children…or even hung around anyone that did….she would know what us parents are already privy to. Kids younger than 3 have more to fear from siblings than from a parents hand of discipline. I mean really….I think the fine citizens of California should be more concerned about the affects of smog, forest fires, earthquakes, and landslides on their toddler.

By Joyce

January 23, 2007 09:13 AM | Link to this

Most child welfare agencies have a hard enough time trying to keep the truly abused and neglected children from “falling through the cracks”. It seems ridiculous to add to that load by reporting parents who have merely swatted an errant bottom. Personally, I don’t have a problem with a swat for extreme defiance or when he’s about to run out into traffic. The key is not to overuse it, like anything else.

By DebbieDoRight

January 23, 2007 09:16 AM | Link to this

If a lot more parents “spanked” their kids, we’d have a lot less juvenile defenders in this country, (I said spank not beat down to a pulp or abuse). Without some form of punishment to mete out that fits the crime, then what do kids have to fear from doing wrong? A time out?!?! WOW that’s really frightening!! How about taking their cell phones away?! They just go to school and use their friends’!

Basically a little fear in the household is fine. I feared my mother because I knew if I acted wrong outside of our home, somehow she’d find out, then I’d have to go home to her!!! That made me act right because deep down when I was little I thought my mother was crazy! Fear keeps us from putting our hands in the fire because we are afraid to get burned. Fear also keeps us from jumping in the shark tank because we’re scared we may be eaten.

These kids these days have NO FEAR. That is not advancement, that’s detrimental not only to their lives but the lives of anyone they may come up against in the future.

By KennMar

January 23, 2007 09:19 AM | Link to this

Good point, Beth! You can abort them anytime before they are born but to give them a little pop on the seat of their pants to discipline them is against the law? I taught school and thought many times that we could have saved a lot of time if we could just get a few kids attention with a little swat to the rear. I am not talking about abuse here at all either. Just something to get their attention. I have three children and I can honestly say that I did not have to spank them much at all but they knew that I would if they misbehaved to that point.

By Joyce

January 23, 2007 09:20 AM | Link to this

Father and Teacher: Any discipline method can be effective when used consistently. I personally hate it when I have to resort to swatting the behind, so I prefer to use time out and removing priveleges/toys/favorite tv shows first. That being said, I will use it for outright defiance or in a danger situation. However, since I (generally) hold a firm line with the non-physical methods, and my son is now 4.5 years old, I hardly need the swats at all these days.

When I was teaching at a majority-black high school, I distinctly remember overhearing a conversation among several of my male students regarding punishments. Every single one of them preferred to get a whipping to being put on restriction. That’s my other reason for using non-physical methods: it bothers them more! Isn’t that the point??

By beth

January 23, 2007 09:32 AM | Link to this

DebbieDoRight, We must have had the same type parents. I FEARED my parents, so I didn’t step out of line. While I feared my parents I also loved them and I know they loved me.

Kids today don’t fear anybody—their parents, the police, or God. We are already reaping what was sown—a generation of 20-somethings who still live at home, playing video games and being sorry on their parents dime, running wild while the parents lament “I can’t control them.”

A little swat on the butt 20 years ago wouldn’t have hurt.

By past50mom

January 23, 2007 09:36 AM | Link to this

Joyce, I think most of us used the bottom bop on toddlers, and once they reached the age where you could clearly communicate, then used time outs, and other non physical punishment methods. I did slap my oldest once when she was a teenager and telling me off. We were both surprised and both apologised.

By abc

January 23, 2007 09:43 AM | Link to this

I never spanked my kids simply because I couldn’t bear to strike them. I found more effective means of discipline. Whenever I’ve seen parents of very young children spank them in public I cringe; almost always, the parent displays anger. But make it illegal? What’s next, screening for who’s allowed to be a parent? Actually, that might not be such a bad idea. If this were Nazi Germany.

By jenny

January 23, 2007 09:44 AM | Link to this

AMEN TO JESSIES GIRL! That said I figure when the assemblywoman has a child of her own her opinion will change. In response to those “You hit me I’ll tell DFCS” kids. Bring it on. I was a DFCS social worker for several years. I had a client who called me cying because she had beat her child. I immediately went to investigate. The 13 year old daughter had called her mom a big black SOB. Mom popped her on the backside. Daughter threatened to call DFCS and say her mom was beating her. I assured the mom she wasn’t beating her daughter and that no one was going to remove the child from the home for that. Then I had a conversation with the daughter where I conveyed the importance of minding her mom. I ended with something like “If she does this again you can pop her backside once or twice.” and left. Daughter never was a problem again. We have made child abuse such a common place thing that if a parent touches a child some well meaning person can call the police and DFCS wll investigate.. Instead of making kids feel safer I wonder if it doesn’t make them bolder and more defient.

By TheOne

January 23, 2007 09:49 AM | Link to this

Ditto to what has been said already, and on that note…

“Politicians are like diapers, they need to be changed often, and for the same reasons!!!!”

By Father and Teacher

January 23, 2007 10:06 AM | Link to this

Tuesday I couldn’t honestly say on a parent to parent basis. I would have to speak in general and in first hand experience. From what I have observed in the cultures of the students that I teach in the Urban setting (African American, African, Hispanic, and Eastern European) is that corporal punishment is accepted in their cultures and most of the adults were raised with it, saw how accepted it was, and were taught that it was part of child rearing. Now again, these conclusions are based on conversations I have had with parents from these different segiments of society. As far as the suburban parents, I don’t know why some prefer non-physical methods to corporal ones. I do know from my experiences that the suburban parents I delt with had a much different outlook on school than my parents or my friend’s parents did. When we got in trouble in school, you got in trouble at home as well. (This seems to be the case with the urban parents as well) When I taught in the suburban setting, most (not all) of the parents did not discpline their children if they had gotten in trouble at school. In fact they did not do anything until they were inconvenienced by having to come to meet with the administration and get out of work or if their child was suspended and they would have to find someone to care for the child or have to take off work to stay home with them.

Joyce I teach in the elementary setting and coach athletics in the high school setting. I agree with you that most kids that age don’t want to have to deal with restrictions. I think at some age, and I am not sure what it is yet but possibly middle school, that you have to move away from corporal punishment and start using restrictions. I believe a child can get to big to be “spanked.”

With that said, that never stopped my mother from giving me a good whack upside the back of my head when had done something “stupid.” Which I feel is acceptable when the “behind” is no longer a choice. But I also feel that this choice of corporal punishment should be reserved for children of and older than middle school age as well. I am not talking about a closed fist punch; I am talking about a open hand, smack in the back of the head once, and no more than once. I think most of you know what I am talking about.

By Stacey

January 23, 2007 10:25 AM | Link to this

As I’ve said before, I grew up in a time and place where not only would your parents whip you (with a belt or hickory switch) but so would the neighbors if you needed it. If the neighbor had to whip you, you were REALLY going to get it when you get home. We also had corporal punishment in schools then.

When my son was a toddler, I popped him once or twice on the back of the hand while firmly telling him “NO” for potentially dangerous things such as tinkering with the plug-ins or trying to pull the child proof caps out of the outlets. Since he’s a little older (almost 6) I have only had to spank him twice. He is one that usually responds to my “MAMA” voice and or taking away privileges. For him, the fear of a spanking far outlasts the actual sting.

By Stacey

January 23, 2007 10:41 AM | Link to this

Past50mom…My mother broke all of her grandkids out of the biting habit by biting them back. Like you, she only had to do it once.

Joyce…When I was a teenager, I would rather have gotten a whipping than the lectures that came as a part of the punishment. I didn’t have a car and rode the bus to school so that wasn’t punishment for me. Since I grew up before everyone had home computers and video games (we had Atari but I didn’t play), the about the only thing I would lose were phone & tv privileges. I have to admit that no phone was killer for a 15 year old girl but hearing about it constantly for two weeks was worse! LOL

By Tuesday

January 23, 2007 10:51 AM | Link to this

Father thank you. Those are very interesting observations you have made. I wonder why the difference? I myself would still use my disclipinary methods, no matter where I lived, urban or Suburban. I still find that very interesting, and appreciate your “findings”. I admire your profession. I wanted to be a teacher, but found myself instead, in office management. Keep up the good work!!!!!

By lg

January 23, 2007 11:12 AM | Link to this

I have two teenagers. Since they were little, all I’ve heard is how well behaved and respectful they are, and especially coming from a single parent house. I didn’t spank either. I’ve known what’s important to my kids, and when they misbehaved, they didn’t have their most sought-after object. Their friends know that they suffer if they do something wrong, which is most important. I’ve given my kids an excuse not to follow the crowd - if I did that my mom will kill me - and their friends know it’s a true statement.

Father/Teacher - ask the director of DFACS is a hit in the back of the head is okay. It’s consider child abuse in Georgia if you hit your children anywhere on the head; doesn’t matter if it leaves a mark or not - just thought I’d let you know.

By Tali Boudreaux

January 23, 2007 11:45 AM | Link to this

This is almost too stupid to comment on….especially from someone that has no children, but rather a cat. Stay out of parenting issues. You don’t have a clue. No sound thinking person is for harsh physical abuse. A spanking, on occasion, should not be lumped into that arguement. Let’s stay out of each others personal lives, including child rearing. No two situations are the same. It is a personal thing. I rarely had to spank any of my four boys, but they knew I would if I had to. That did almost as much good. No telling what would have happened if they knew that I could not have. Moron. Why do you all waste our time on this silliness?

By Common Sense

January 23, 2007 11:49 AM | Link to this

Never had to spank… I use unconventional dicipline. My son once had the habit of throwing or slamming stuff when he was mad. I said, “That’s fine… but you only do that in your room.” After he broke his stereo after being angry and we refused to buy another, he didn’t like breaking things too much after that.

My 8 year old daughter has to wear all pink this week. Why? Because she hates it! She “forgot” for a whole week to unload the dishwasher - one of her chores. I told her on Sunday if she forgot again, she would regret it. She forgot…

Well yesterday she wore two BIG pig tails in her hair, a pink blouse with big flowers on it, pink jeans, and white socks with black Mary Janes. Man did she look like a deranged Easter Bunny. I already have her outfit picked out for tomorrow - pink socks, a big pink skirt and a white shirt with a stitched pink flower on the cuff. This kid LOVES jeans, sweatshirts, and her brother’s football jersey, so she’s in her own personal hell! Bwahahahahaha!!!

By Tuesday

January 23, 2007 12:01 PM | Link to this

I’ve also taken away precious things. The best one so far is her learner’s license. Great disclipine tool. Bad behavior, no driving, bad grades, no driving, not doing chores, no driving, talking back to Mom, you got it, no driving. Oh yea, and going to the mall with her friends (substitute mall for driving in the above statement). A severe punishment in the eyes of a 16 year old girl!!!!! And “Go to your room!!!” still works.

By Penguinmom

January 23, 2007 12:12 PM | Link to this

Spanking is something that should be used sparingly but it shouldn’t be banned. When your child runs away from you in the parking lot, a spank on the bottom is about the only way of getting the message through. You don’t have time to worry about taking away privileges or talking it through. It is a safety issue and has to be done in a way to get their attention.

I also read an interesting parenting book that talked about the difference between spanking and other forms of punishment. With spanking (done correctly), the issue is talked about, punished, and resolved. Then it’s done. The parent and the child are immediately back in a right relationship. With other forms (such as time out or removal of priveleges), the punishment drags out so that the issue is unresolved for longer.

Last thought, you have to know your child in order to know what punishment to use. Some kids melt at a harsh glance or a ‘I’m very disappointed’. Some need a more intense reminder of their wrongdoing. A government entity doesn’t know my child and doesn’t know what is appropriate and what isn’t in order for me to raise a healthy productive adult.

By Teacher's Kid

January 23, 2007 12:17 PM | Link to this

Tuesday, funny you should mention the “go to your room” strategy. One of my friends had a dad who took it one step further when she had a teenaged temper tantrum in the 1970s. He heard her yell out “I HATE IT HERE” from her own room (she had her own room—a luxury back then!), proceeded to come up to her room and in true Marine Corps fashion (he was a retired Marine Gunney) got 6” from her face and calmly replied, “You haven’t even BEGUN to hate it here.” This was shortly followed by his RIPPING the posters off her wall and having her room painted all white, removing the stero from her room (a luxury for a teen back then—no TV in her room, mind you, this was the 70s), and setting her off on a laundry list of extra chores for a week (to include, but not limited to, cleaning out gutters, painting the backyard fence, weeding the gardent, etc.) as well as her being grounded for that week with no telephone (this was back when there was 1 phone in the house for EVERYONE to use). I plan to use the same strategy with mine :-).

By buddy

January 23, 2007 12:27 PM | Link to this

A buddy of mine got to slamming her bedroom door as a teen. Her daddy just came up there and took it off the hinges. She had to hang up a sheet for privacy.

It was a good lesson for her.

By Father and Teacher

January 23, 2007 12:40 PM | Link to this

I think the thing that is being forgotten here (I am pretty guilty of it myself) is that they are taking away a parent’s choice to spank. Wheither a parent decides to spank or not to spank; they should have that right to choose. I do not think that the government has a right to interfer in that. They have rights to do a lot of things, but unless someone has been found guilty of abusing or neglecting their child, what right does the government have to stick it’s nose in a parents buisness. I have read the comments from people who have used all kinds of discpline methods in raising their children in this blog today; and the point is is that we all have had the ability to make a choice of how we want to raise our kids and done so. I for one don’t want that choice taken away.

By Tuesday

January 23, 2007 12:45 PM | Link to this

Then there’s good old-fashioned manual labor. My daughter and a friend were spending the night at my house. For some reason, the dog woke me up around 3:00 a.m. I found that the girls were not in the house, that they had snuck out……Long story very short, the disclipine dished out the next day was for her to rake all the leaves in the back yard (yes, it was fall) and bag them up. I also called her friend’s parents and told them what happened.

A friend of mine came over and we were watching my daughter rake the leaves, and my friend leaned over to me and said “you really should get a leaf blower”. I told her I had one in the garage, but the raking was HARDER work. My daughter has not snuck out the house since. That was three years ago. I remember one time I went out drinking while still living at home (back then you could get beer & wine at 18). I had a bit too much to drink and was paying heavily for it in the bathroom the following morning. My father, very disappointed/disgusted in my behavior, sent me out into the back yard and I sat there and pulled every single weed in the garden, in the hot summer sun!!!! To this day, I have never gotten drunk again.

By Jesse's Girl

January 23, 2007 12:55 PM | Link to this

I come from a very large, blended family…we never had our own rooms. So when one of us messed up so bad that the door came off…that happened only once….it paled in comparison to what we put eachother through as pay back. Once my brother stole a tape from Turtles….remember that place? My dad made him stand at the end of the driveway with a sign that said he was a thief. The kids on the bus were relentless in thier teasing. So my brother beat one of them up….which resulted in cleaning the church toilets with a bath cloth. Moral? My brother never stole or beat anyone up again. As long as it isn’t ongoing or too dehumanizing….humiliation is a good punishment. Last month, my middle daughter had to wear the same shirt 2 days in a row because she couldn’t seem to get the whole “put your dirty clothes in the basket” theory. I promise you…she will never do that again. The oldest really peeved me off one day with her constant bossing of the other 2…so for a week, she wore dresses to school. Pure torture for her! I hated it and I almost buckled….but if you are going to teach them that we parents run the show…you can’t.

By Kat

January 23, 2007 01:02 PM | Link to this

The best parenting advice I ever got was from my dad. He said, “If your kids know you WILL spank them, you’ll hardly ever have to.” Truer words were never spoken, and I can count on one hand the number of times I’ve spanked my kids. The key is consistency: if you say you’ll do it, you’d better be ready to back it up. If your kids know you’ll do it, they will respond to verbal warnings. And regarding the legislation, ages 2-3 are some of the toughest, and in my opinion, the time when a quick swat can accomplish in a second what talk can’t. At that age, they simply don’t understand logic or reasoning. You can tell them a thousand times that the stove is hot and they shouldn’t touch it or they’ll get burned and they may never learn the lesson, but a smack on the hand gets the message across. I wouldn’t hit a child under two, though, and I believe you should never punish a child for being childish. I reserved corporal punishment for absolute, outright in-your-face defiance…when my kids got that “I’m not going to and you can’t make me” look on their faces, it was time to show them that they were, and I could.

By deidreNC

January 23, 2007 01:06 PM | Link to this

i think ita statement of some sort that this is happening right at the same time that law enforcement in CALIFORNIA has vowed to take stronger action against gang members since so many children have been killed in gang related incidents…ummm wonder what stronger action means..sitting them in time out under a graffitti wall??? helloooo …kids are out of hand enough with the lack of discipline and the attitude of ‘we have to always make srue kids feel good about themselves’…god forbid we let them face real life — we can wait til they go off to college or the work force and see what happens..grrr at that lady…maybe she needs to have a few unruly kids to deal with for a year…bet her tune would change

By dee

January 23, 2007 01:08 PM | Link to this

The spanking law is just another loss of our freedoms. We do not need the government legislating every area of our lives. Next you won’t be able to yell at them.

By Kat

January 23, 2007 01:14 PM | Link to this

I’m reading a lot on here about consequences (not just spanking), and as I’m a big advocate of making the punishment fit the crime, it’s been interesting seeing just how creative some of these parents have been. I think this applies especially to older kids. Theresa, since you were asking for ideas about topics for your leave, how about teen discipline? Also I’ve heard a lot lately about teen driving and teens who have tickets/accidents without any real consequences. I’d be interested in how other parents are handling this, or if they set up any rules or guidelines for teen drivers in their households.

By Tuesday

January 23, 2007 01:15 PM | Link to this

Kat That was good.

The best advise I ever received about parenting was when my dad said “Don’t let your child control you”. Whenever I am challenged by my daughter, I hear those words.

I have friend, who when her children act up, all she has to do is look at them and raise one eyebrow. The kids stop dead in their tracks after that. I could never master that one. But sometimes, there is a LOOK that my daughter knows she has pushed the envelope too far.

By Jesse's Girl

January 23, 2007 01:35 PM | Link to this

Oh yes..the look. I have the finger. No…not THAT finger. Our kids have 3 tries to act right. Hold up one finger, with no words spoken. If we hold up 2 fingers, they understand they have one more chance to fix it. There is usually a verbal reminder. If, God help them, 3 fingers need to be held up…..out comes the paddle. Yes, paddle. As in the kind we all used to get in school. 2 good whacks with that thing is all that is needed. But we are always very conscious of sitting down with them and explaining what is happening and why. We never leave the room without saying I love you…sometimes we don’t get it back. And thats ok….they don’t have to like it….they just have accept.

By Tuesday

January 23, 2007 01:58 PM | Link to this

Hey Jessesgirl My parents did that too, and when my daughter was younger, I applied the “One, Two Three” Method. I would ask once, tell the second time (with a harsher voice), and the third time your butt is mine!!

By TheOne

January 23, 2007 02:14 PM | Link to this

This is a VERY good example of why this bill proposal is ridiculous:

Toddler’s Temper Ousts Family From Plane

ORLANDO, Fla. — AirTran Airways on Tuesday defended its decision to remove a Massachusetts couple from a flight after their crying 3-year-old daughter refused to take her seat before takeoff.

AirTran officials said they followed Federal Aviation Administration rules that children age 2 and above must have their own seat and be wearing a seat belt upon takeoff.

“The flight was already delayed 15 minutes and in fairness to the other 112 passengers on the plane, the crew made an operational decision to remove the family,” AirTran spokeswoman Judy Graham-Weaver said.

Julie and Gerry Kulesza, who were headed home to Boston on Jan. 14 from Fort Myers, said they just needed a little more time to calm their daughter, Elly.

“We weren’t given an opportunity to hold her, console her or anything,” Julie Kulesza said in a telephone interview Tuesday.

The Kuleszas said they told a flight attendant they had paid for their daughter’s seat, but asked whether she could sit in her mother’s lap. The request was denied.

She was removed because “she was climbing under the seat and hitting the parents and wouldn’t get in her seat” during boarding, Graham-Weaver said.

The Orlando-based carrier reimbursed the family $595.80, the cost of the three tickets, and the Kuleszas flew home the next day.

They also were offered three roundtrip tickets anywhere the airline flies, Graham-Weaver said.

The father said his family would never fly AirTran again.

GOOD!!!!!!!! Bad azz children make me sick!!!!!!!!!!!

By Penguinmom

January 23, 2007 02:17 PM | Link to this

We use the 1, 2, 3 method but backwards (i.e. start at 3). Too many people I knew were continuing on past 3 if their kids didn’t stop and kids can always hold out hope that you’ll continue. When you count down, there’s nowhere to go from 0.
Most of the time with my boys all I have to do is start counting. With my strong-willed child, my daughter, I do have to get all the way to 1 sometimes just because she wants me to prove I’ll actually follow through with consequences. Then she’ll be fine for a few months before she challenges the 3,2,1 rule again.

By dee

January 23, 2007 02:28 PM | Link to this

My father and my husband never counted. You do what they say or else. Call it fear or respect or both, it works. Counting seems like you have an option.

By Father and Teacher

January 23, 2007 02:32 PM | Link to this

Hey Kat, I can give you a good one for teenage punishment. I was in a wreck when I had just turned 16, I wrecked my dad’s car into a sign. Not a lot of damage, I was just fooling around and not paying attention on a curve. My parents fixed the car out of their own pocket. The punishment I expected never happened. I expected to be grounded and beaten. Instead my father put me in the car, drove me the half mile to the nearest grocery store and made me get a job as a bag boy. For the next 5 months, I took every pay check I got and had to give it to my parents. I was not allowed to drive again until I had paid them back as well. I had to walk back and forth from my job. I took driving a whole lot more serious 5 months later. Never been in a wreck since.

By Tuesday

January 23, 2007 02:46 PM | Link to this

PenguinMom I like the 3,2,1 better than 1,2,3, no where to go after zero.

Where were you with that great advice when my child was younger???????LOL

By Stacey

January 23, 2007 02:54 PM | Link to this

Buddy…LOL…Do I know you?! My mother removed my sister’s door for the same reason.

I’m one of those mothers who has “the look” and a “MAMA” vs “Mommy” voice. Right now, that works for my son though he also knows that I will spank him if I need to. My mother would either hit us in the mouth or twist our bottom lip for back talking (she didn’t need to do that more than once or twice). My brother was the only one to have his mouth washed out with soap - the rest of us had sense enough to learn a lesson from him.

By What the heck

January 23, 2007 03:23 PM | Link to this

Stacey, Your mom hit you in the mouth and twisted your lips? That seems just a little extreme, don’t you think?

By Jesse's Girl

January 23, 2007 03:25 PM | Link to this

@ Dee….to give them a choice is the point. I want them to understand that obeying and disobeying is a choice they make….and there are consequences for each decision. I don’t want them to obey blindly. I want them to understand that it is the right thing to do and why. And trust me Tuesday…. the paddle is where they go after 3. PERIOD!

By lisa

January 23, 2007 03:27 PM | Link to this

That is what is wrong with these kids. I spanked my kids. they have turned out fine and I am a single mom. I rule my house not my kids. That fear was put in them early. they are teenagers now and i dont have those other issues. if you dont handle it by the time they or 5 or 6. then you will have major problems.

there is no democracy in my house.. it is a dictatorship.

By dee

January 23, 2007 03:36 PM | Link to this

My dad and husband’s way wasn’t blindly. You set rules and expected behavior. They disobey willingly. Not blind disobedience. Just plain defiance.

By Stacey

January 23, 2007 03:45 PM | Link to this

WTH…Honestly, no, I don’t think it was harsh. Unlike a lot of southern families of my day, I did not grow up in one of those “Children are to be seen, not heard” households. Trust me, when my siblings and I were hit in the mouth, we needed to be. In fact, there were other times when we were expecting that (or worse) because we KNEW we had gone too far and she didn’t for fear of causing permanent damage. That’s when were heard the dreaded “Wait until your Daddy gets home.” Each of us only had to have that happen once. BTW, we were not little kids when this would happen. We were teens and preteens who knew better.

By Lynette

January 23, 2007 04:45 PM | Link to this

I have spanked all of mine at times. They needed it. I have been lucky that I never had just a whole lot of trouble with them. I think it would be because I have kept them guessing. They are not sure what I might do but, they are positive I may make it unpleasant.

WE all know those Kennedy’s are true role models. Not!!

By Melissa

January 23, 2007 04:50 PM | Link to this

My parents set rules and boundaries and all 4 of us knew what would happen if we crossed the line. The last spanking I got was when I was 7 years old and I deserved every single whack. My father was a very vocal disciplinarian as I got older and I used to tell my mother that I wish he would have beat the crap out of me instead of talking to me the way he did. Spanking is not going to break a child’s spirit; but uncontrolled use of harsh words can. The sting of a spanking goes away, you can’t take words back even with an apology.

By lynn

January 23, 2007 04:54 PM | Link to this

I got kinda upset with some friends this past weekend who’s daughter was truely a monster. I bet they counted to 3 100+ times and she never paid them a bit of attention, nor did they take further action as should have been done. It made me never want to count to 3 again or to invite them over anymore.

By abc

January 23, 2007 05:11 PM | Link to this

While I respect the opinions of the ‘spare the rod, spoil the child’ folks, I always thought that, especially after my boys reached 8 or 10 years old, it was better to illustrate the rationale of the behaviors I sought to encourage in them and those I sought to discourage. I didn’t WANT them to simply obey, I wanted them to understand why I wanted them to be certain ways, and for them to agree with me. They certainly weren’t trouble-free years, especially through their teens, but I prefer the result. As young adults, they now try to understand authority’s rationale rather than grumble about enforced behavior. They don’t do so by challenging the rationale, they simply try to understand.

I really think that the humiliations described here are counter-productive in the long run. A case in point would be my younger brother, made to wear a red ribbon hanging out of his fly in public all day when he as 8 or 9 years old, due to my dad having to tell him one too many times to zip it up. He’s 45 years old now and compulsively checks his fly every 2 minutes. It’s sad.

I think it’s a valid point that to establish the notion in young children that the way to gain behavior compliance is through any form of violence, even a light swat on a 3 or 4 year olds bottom, is a mistake; but I still don’t think that it’s government’s place to enforce that upon families.

By Leen

January 23, 2007 05:46 PM | Link to this

It would be a bogus law. It applies to children under the age of 3, who wouldn’t have a clue about calling Child Protective Services anyway. How in the world would it be enforced? I don’t disagree with the premise, I see no benefit of hitting a child except to make the parent feel better, but unless a child was being spanked in public, nobody would know anyway.

By Stella

January 23, 2007 07:08 PM | Link to this

My parents spanked and didn’t have to do it often b/c my brothers and I knew they would DO it if need be. We were raised to address adults as “Miss” or “Mr” so-and-so, “please”, “thank you”, etc. We never got in trouble at school b/c we knew very well that the trouble we would get in at home would be way worse!!

By Aine

January 24, 2007 08:36 AM | Link to this

http://apnews.excite.com/article/20070123/D8MR4NTO1.html

Theresa - I was just wondering what you take on this article was. Completely off the current topic but caught my interest nonetheless.

By past50mom

January 24, 2007 09:11 AM | Link to this

abc, I agree with your comments about the long lasting effects of humilating punishments. I was not against bopping my toddlers on their bottoms to get their attention when needed. And I think we only spanked a couple of times after that. We generally removed privileges as the kids got older. I agree with you that humiliating punishments (and for me words) stay with a person a lifetime.

By dee

January 24, 2007 09:47 AM | Link to this

Please don’t count to three if you are in public and your children misbehave. Just take them to the restroom or parking lot and then count to three.

By fk

January 24, 2007 09:51 AM | Link to this

My son is sixteen. We did “bop” him on the bottom when he was a toddler, but only a handful of times. His big punishment was time out on the stairs. He would get so upset with just the threat of it…”please, Mommy, not the stairs.” I felt awful. It was not like we were putting him on the basement stairs in the dark, but on the front stairway that looks out the front door!

The gov’t should be looking at parents who are neglectful to the point of criminal behavoir. I think that most kids need to realize that there is a consequence for bad behavior. The problem is that the threat of consequences is not enough, it’s the carry-through part that is the problem. What about that family who was thrown off the plane for a three year old who would not take her seat b/f take-off?

By Teacher's Kid

January 24, 2007 12:37 PM | Link to this

Regarding the family removed from the AirTran flight, KUDOS to AirTran! I will fly them any day of the week!
I am a frequent flier and sometimes have connecting flights that offer less than a 60 minute window of time to make the connection. If those parents don’t like it, they can drive next time, or better yet, teach their child how to behave on an airplane. The rules have changed regarding air travel and the airlines aren’t going back, folks!

By gordon

January 24, 2007 12:53 PM | Link to this

Not to hijack( maybe a bad choice of words) but I think they coincide. But parents do have to figure out ways to control kids but that doesn’t always have to be through corporal punishment especially under age 3.
The parents of the child on AirTran deserved to be asked to leave the plane in my opinion. If your child can’t be controlled and it is causing multi-million dollar plane to be late a hundered plus passengers awaiting to go their destination having to endure your childs tantrus, you do deserve to be kicked off the plane. Your child does not deserve to have the snot beat out of it however at any age.

Hopefully if your flying with your kids you have worked out the discipline problems beforehand but as as anyone who has flown more than once, you have found, that is never the case.

By Kat

January 24, 2007 01:31 PM | Link to this

F&T, I love what your dad did. Like I say, make the punishment fit the crime. By the way, the few times I spanked my children, I always made it clear that it was their choice both before and after it happened. I would give them a choice of minding me or getting spanked. If they didn’t mind, I would always make it clear afterward that the spanking was their choice.

By Jill

January 24, 2007 04:04 PM | Link to this

I think it would be more useful to propose guidelines regarding exactly what the limits are regarding spanking. The laws about abuse are too vague, and you always have some people shrieking that spanking a kid at all is abuse (gotta love those people who waste CPS’s time reporting that the neighbors gave their kid a swat — meanwhile, some kid across town is being starved and burned while CPS investigates the swat family). And other people think that they can beat their kid with a rubber hose so long as it doesn’t leave any marks. We need something like public service announcements saying that a reasonable spanking is 2 or 3 swats (by hand) on a clothed bottom.

I’ve known people who, when told not to spank (they had been spanking abusively), instead did other idiotically abusive things, like making their kids stand there holding dictionaries in their outstretched arms. Instead of just telling people not to spank, they need to be given some other sensible ideas. And for some people who have really limited abilities and are just never going to get to educated-middle-class-positive-discipline Nirvana, it might be more useful to give specific guidelines regarding what an appropriate spanking looks like.