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DEL.ICIO.USPassing on religion
Can you instill spiritual values in children that continue as adults?
The Atlanta Journal-Constitution
The last time my brother checked into the hospital, the admissions nurse asked him a few routine questions. One of which was “What is your religion?”
My brother, ever the smart aleck even in heart failure, answered “Seventh-Day Stay-At-Home-Ist.” Despite both of us being taken to Mass every Sunday for 18 years and to Sunday school for 14 years, my brother and I went down divergent paths at college.
Other than the occasional appearance for high Christian holidays, I don’t think my brother ever rushed off to Sunday morning services during his college years. I, on the other hand, not only made it to the Catholic Center each week, but started teaching first-grade Sunday school as well.
I must confess, however, that my intentions were not completely noble. My devotion to the church was largely based on the fear of disappointing my parents.
This week, many college students will be returning home to parents wondering: Did they have prodigal sons and daughters or did their young adults practice the faiths they were taught as children?
College can be a pivotal time in faith formation for young adults. “I think for many students it’s the first time they start to question what they grew up with. They are exposed to new ideas, traditions and different spiritual paths,” says Harriet L. Schwartz, author of “Spirituality 101: The Indispensable Guide to Keeping – or Finding — Your Spiritual Life on Campus.” She explains that college students are often intentional about exploring their own identities, including their religion and spirituality.
Schwartz, who is also the assistant director of the Career Center at Carnegie Mellon University, says first-time college students often shake out into three groups:
Students who grew up without much religious involvement. While trying to figure out who they are and how they relate to society, they start exploring religion.
Students who grew up involved in organized religion and continue down that same path. They affiliate with a community that helps them grow and strengthen their spiritual ties.
Students who grew up with religious involvement but as they encounter different ideas in class or from roommates, explore or question their own faith.
Randy and Dee Porter’s twin son and daughter both grew up worshipping at a Southern-style Baptist church, but as college freshmen neither is now attending church on a regular basis.
The Lilburn couple’s son Chad didn’t actually wait for college at Georgia State University to begin analyzing his faith. In high school, Dee says Chad started questioning the literalness of the Bible and the church as an institution. She says he has always been very intellectual about his religion.
Daughter Chelsea on the other hand has been strictly faith-based and consistently attended services right up to going away to Georgia College and State University in Milledgeville.
“She hasn’t made time to go. She’s usually on the go on the weekend. When she comes home she goes to church,” says mom Dee. “I ask her occasionally, ‘Have you found a church to go to?’ I don’t know if I should or not, but I don’t push the issue. I want it to be a decision that they make. I don’t want them to go because they feel guilty that they have to go. I want them to go because it’s in their hearts to go.”
Schwartz says it’s very natural for college students to explore many faiths. But that can be very stressful for parents, she says, who may take it very personally if they feel their children are rejecting the religion they grew up with.
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Comments
By mom3boys
November 20, 2006 06:44 AM | Link to this
What an interesting topic! I grew up in a non religious home. All celebrations were secular. In junior high, I visited a Bible study w/ a friend and decided that I wanted that faith, and became a follower of Jesus Christ. I could never attend church or Bible studies w/ out snide comments from my parents. College was the opportunity to grow spiritually and have the freedom of worship I had craved. Quite the opposite from most college students! Fast forward to present: my 18 year old decided at 15 that he didn’t believe in God. My heart was ripped out! He does everything to be a blatant and offensive in his beliefs, I think to get a reaction out of me. After a year, we no longer made attendance mandatory…only Christmas eve family service. My other kids are active believers. When this one gets older I hope and pray (and believe) he will come back to his roots. He was given a good foundation, and he has always been easily influenced by peers. He has made alot of choices on his journey that I wouldn’t have made…but it is his journey. The more I try to change him, the more frustrated I become. I believe God will bring him back, and at that time his faith will be real to him, andthere will be no turning back at that point. I also hope and pray no catostrophic events have to happen to get his spiritual attention.
By AFather
November 20, 2006 07:03 AM | Link to this
My wife and I were both raised in religious homes and we raised our kids that way. But I’m not a zealot like she is. Over the years, I’ve started attending Bedside Baptist (I sleep in). My wife and her sibblings attend the same church as her parents. I think they all go so that they won’t disappoint their mom and dad. I’ve noticed that if my wife’s parents have some other event that keeps them from attending church, then she won’t attend that week either. My kids were not only raised in church but they attended Christian schools too. But I’ve noticed that they’ve learned that a lot of the christian stuff they were taught doesn’t hold water in real life.
By Elaine
November 20, 2006 07:12 AM | Link to this
I think a child’s spiritual maturity has more to do with what happens at home than what happens at church. Some people keep their spirituality so personal, so quiet, that their kids can’t see it. Others are “Sunday Morning Christians” (or insert any other day and faith…). Kids are more likely to embrace something that seems real, in front of them, an everyday way of viewing the world. Kids see through “phony” in a heartbeat, and are sometimes afraid of what seems too personal or mysterious.
By past50mom
November 20, 2006 07:49 AM | Link to this
Eight years of Catholic School, with Mass every day except Saturday, the early years all in Latin, and when I hit college I took a break from Mass attendance, but continued in my spiritual development, and minored in Religion because I wanted to understand the roots, similarities and differences among all faiths. When my kids were small I started attending Mass again, mostly to give them a foundation. I am distressed by the changes the Mass underwent over the years, and distracted by any political messages by the clergy. My kids go to Mass with me when they are home, and I think occasionally at college. I don’t worry, as they had a sound foundation, and will choose their own spiritual paths now. For myself, I find my spirituality best in quiet when I am doing my daily meditation online at Sacred Space; www.sacredspace.ie/?lang=en
By Mark
November 20, 2006 08:03 AM | Link to this
Religion is for the weak. People, Pull your noses out of the Buybull, and believe in something real for a change: YOURSELF!
By past50mom
November 20, 2006 08:16 AM | Link to this
Mark, It’s your choice to join a church or not, to believe in GOD or not. However, it is none of your business to judge other people’s choices. Peace to you.
By Mark
November 20, 2006 08:31 AM | Link to this
past50mom,
“You can’t handle the truth”
By AFather
November 20, 2006 08:41 AM | Link to this
My kids attended church (because the wife made them attend) and they were in the choir when they were growing up. When my oldest daughter went off to college she joined a Choral Ensemble at the university and she attended services at one of the local churches. When my son went off to college, he didn’t go to church nor did he join any choir. He was glad to be away from it all. My third child is now in college and she attends church and has joined a choral ensemble. I think girls are more likely to continue to attend church and do the religious thing in college. Boys for the most part could care less.
By wren
November 20, 2006 08:44 AM | Link to this
I worship my pillow on Sunday mornings. After 8 years of Catholic grammar school and 2 years of Catholic high school, I chose not to participate in organized religion. I went through the motions for the rest of high school, but don’t regret for a minute being a Catholic church dropout.
There are other ways to be spiritual without swallowing the rules and strictures of the Catholic church.
By Slim
November 20, 2006 09:32 AM | Link to this
I myself am a non-believer, but my daughter is wanting to learn and go to church. She attends church with my brother, and is becoming active in the Youth Group. I want it to be her choice, and she is now old enough to make that decision. If she wants to be involved in church, I will not stop her. She knows my beliefs, but I am not going to force it down her throat. Let her make the choice.
I was baptized and confirmed in the Episcopal church. I did it for my Mom, she wanted us to have a church to belong to. I never believed in God, but I went for her. My dad was Mormon, but didn’t practice. We weren’t big church-goers, certainly not every Sunday.
I don’t like people to force their religious views on me, so I don’t force mine on anyone!
By Ashleigh
November 20, 2006 09:39 AM | Link to this
What an interesting topic. I’m the only one in my family that doesn’t believe in God and my SO is Christian, however he believes he can sin all he wants, but can still go to Heaven as long as he has faith. I can’t do religion because of the hypocrisy and I believe in the power within myself. So, when my children are born, I’m going to allow them to follow whatever they feel is necesary to “find themselves”, be it God, Allah, Jehovah, a pagan god, I don’t care. All I want is for them to still have the morals I bestowed to them as a child.
By Deborah Lee
November 20, 2006 09:48 AM | Link to this
I raised my son as a non-believer, atheist, non-theist,whatever you want to call it. He is in his second year of college studying history and getting an internship with a historical society. He is well adjusted, works with the public, has never been arrested or even got a ticket. He is a straight A student. Does not do drugs or drink.He has been to church with friends because the friend’s parents made them go when he spent the night. The friend admitted that he hated it and when he got out of the house he would not go either. If my son came home and said that he wanted to be a Christian, Muslim, Hindu, or Jew I would not care. So parents don’t worry about religion it is how YOU raise them as to whether they become good, responsible people. OH, and yes, I have already been told that we will burn in hell for eternity. We just laugh at those silly people. Non-believers are 15% of the population and growing. Only 1% of people in jail are non-theists so we are doing just fine.
By Penguinmom
November 20, 2006 11:26 AM | Link to this
Too many kids have ‘inherited religion’ instead of true personal beliefs. And too many parents are satisfied to have their kids just attend church without ever worrying about what the child really understands or believes about God. Going to church every Sunday is not what saves you. Salvation comes from a true personal belief in and relationship with Jesus. Any kids who don’t have this before they go to college are unlikely to continue in the ‘practice of their faith’.
College is a time for questioning and if you have a very solid foundation and understanding of your faith, that questioning will most often lead you back to a stronger belief. If you don’t have a strong foundation and you just go to church because you ‘have to’ then the questioning times will cause you to fall away.
My husband’s father didn’t go to church so my husband looked forward to the time when he would get ‘old enough’ to not attend anymore. Fortunately, he met my father when we were dating and decided that he would follow my father’s example of active involvement instead of his father’s example of total non-involvement.
By AFather
November 20, 2006 12:47 PM | Link to this
Ashleigh, I’m laughing my azz off with your “my SO thinks he can sin all he wants and still go to heaven as long as he has faith” comment. I think that is the way most christians think, expecially preachers.
By Perturbed in Decatur
November 20, 2006 12:58 PM | Link to this
Theresa- I’m afraid that I can’t figure out any other way to communicate with you, and so I’m putting a completely unrelated question into the comments to the religion entry: what’s up with the AJC not reporting on the mother who was removed from a plane in Vermont after a flight attendant found breastfeeding offensive? I’ve searched for the story to see if I’ve missed it on the AJC, but cannot find it reported here. Since the flight was a Delta commuter flight (operated by Freedom Airlines), it seems there would be many parents of breastfed children in Atlanta interested in this story. It sure caught my attention, after many months of breastfeeding my daughter on flights as needed, most of which were operated by Delta.
By Destiny
November 20, 2006 01:15 PM | Link to this
I am really torqued that we cannot have a discussion on something, without cynical people criticizing others. Deborah Lee, you are the worst, I thought you moved, so keep your nose on the ocast line.
By Slim
November 20, 2006 01:17 PM | Link to this
Why on earth would ANYONE consider a mother feeding her child offensive? The flight attendant must be a man. And more than likely he was offended, because he wasn’t the one on the “receiving end”.
By Slim
November 20, 2006 02:18 PM | Link to this
Destiny What was that all about? Who or What did Deborah criticize?
That comment was totally uncalled for, and may be you need to “keep your noise on the ocast line (whatever that means)…
By destiny
November 20, 2006 02:31 PM | Link to this
Because you cannot say you are a christian without someone making comments about it. Ms. Lee says nothing but cynical things and is a nutcase.
By AFather
November 20, 2006 02:39 PM | Link to this
LOL, I was thinking the same thing SLIM. I didn’t see anything she did that warranted that comment.
By Elane
November 20, 2006 02:43 PM | Link to this
No religion can ever be instilled by parents who do not “walk the talk.” That is, no REAL heartfelt religion. If parents role-model the “we go to church so our neighbors won’t say bad things about us,” the kids might pick up that “value.” But parents who put on the smiley face on Sunday and then act like heathens the rest of the week are not going to pass on anything. Get it straight in your own head before you try to put ideas into your kids’ heads.
By Slim
November 20, 2006 02:56 PM | Link to this
Destiny Maybe people criticize you for being a christian, because you don’t act like a Christian. Case in point, go read your 1:15 post.
By destiny
November 20, 2006 03:08 PM | Link to this
Didn’t say I was or wasn’t. Just said christians got bashed and ridiculed. One more point: Christians aren’t perfect and never pretended to be. They make mistakes just like everybody else. I am just suprised Ms. Lee didn’t find a way to through the KKK she saw in Gwinnett Co. in here some where.
By AFather
November 20, 2006 03:22 PM | Link to this
Lighten up Destiny, you’re too sweet to be so upset.
By Ashleigh
November 20, 2006 03:34 PM | Link to this
Oh yeah, AFather, I know what you mean. When my SO first told me that, I had the “what did you just say?” look on my face and just went, “Oooookay. Whatever you say, Chief.”
And destiny, Christians do make mistakes, but they are the first to criticize someone for making mistakes. “Practice what you preach” I always say.
I respect all religions, but I can’t fathom some guy acting like a jackass throughout the week, but on Sunday acts like he’s a saint in a suit and tie and then telling me I’m going to burn in hell for my beliefs. I was an avid member of the FCA when I was in high school and then realized that wasn’t the route for me when I saw my fellow classmates engaging in promiscuous sex and drinking binges.
By Penguinmom
November 20, 2006 03:46 PM | Link to this
Ashleigh, just because your SO calls himself a Christian doesn’t make him one. If he thinks he can sin as much as he wants, he is incorrect and not following the teaching of the Bible. Paul specifically says in Rom 6:1 ‘What shall we say then, shall we continue in sin that grace may abound? God Forbid!’ Paul is saying that we can’t just keep on sinning and call ourselves Christians.
By tlc
November 20, 2006 03:55 PM | Link to this
Renee, Renee, Renee, oh where art thou? There’s lives to be saved in here girl…now get to work!!!
By tlc
November 20, 2006 04:01 PM | Link to this
RENEE….where for art thou?
By jsmom
November 20, 2006 04:01 PM | Link to this
I was in 8th or 9th grade when I told my parents I didn’t want to go to church anymore. It had a lot to do with the church we were attending at the time, and a lot to do with the people at school that were wearing crosses around their neck and drinking, doing drugs, blatently disobeying/lying to their parents and their teachers and parents thought they were wonderful. I felt like if that’s what the Christian experience was, count me out.
I have gotten back to going to church (or at least having good intentions of going to church). Unfortunatly, the babe’s nap time falls at around 10 so she’s either snoozing or wanting to sleep and the room for her age kids doesn’t have a place for them to nap. If we can get up and going, we go to the early service. If not, we go to Holy Mattress by the Springs.
Oh, and I’ve been wondering about that lady kicked off the plane myself. I really want to hear the flight attendant’s side of the story!!
By BMN
November 20, 2006 04:10 PM | Link to this
For those who are letting their children free to choose whatever religion they want and you say absolutly nothing: My grandmother was that way with her children - which ended up with my mother having to fly across the country to get her brother who joined a cult (she got him right in time). All my grandmother said was, “he was trying to find himself - it is a phase.” He was molested and now has many issues and cannot work productively in society. So, before you go and let you child “wild” in choosing what they want to believe, you may want to have some type of input or knowledge what is going on.
By Ashleigh
November 20, 2006 04:10 PM | Link to this
Penguinmom, I don’t care what he calls himself. Let him do what he wants. He doesn’t read the bible, he doesn’t pray, he doesn’t do any of that stuff. He just believes that there is a higher being than man and that is God. He believes that Jesus is our savior and all that jazz, but he also believes we have the right to control our lives not living by a book written by man. He lives how he wants and he is a good, law abiding guy: never been arrested, never gotten a ticket, helps out fellow man, yadda yadda. It’s not anyone’s place to tell him what he is and what he is not.
Now, I could understand if he was doing pagan rituals and then praying to God why you would say he isn’t Christian, but quoting scripture isn’t going to make him suddenly see the light of Christianity, so to speak. But then again, I could argue this subject all day.
By Leen
November 20, 2006 04:53 PM | Link to this
I was raised and school in the Catholic Church. My oldest son asked to attend a Catholic HS after 8 yrs of public school. His choice, we let him. Next son decided he wanted to attend Lutheran services because his friends all belonged to the youth group there. We were fine with that too. The youngest wants nothing to do with church, again, not a problem. When my mother says anything I tell her I’ve raised one Catholic, one Lutheran, and a pagan. She’s gotten over it. My husband and I have tried a few churches, but really don’t agree with the Catholic doctrine at all. We do miss being part of a congregation, but not all the excess preaching one thing and doing another, or excluding certain lifestyles, or outdated views on birth control and so on. I am not a fan of organized religion at all. My sons are smart, thoughtful kids, and will make up their own minds.
By CollegeBoy
November 20, 2006 06:00 PM | Link to this
Geeze, I’m enjoying my freshman year. Why waste my time in a church on Sundays, when I can be part of the panty raids in the dorm?
By CollegeBoy
November 20, 2006 06:03 PM | Link to this
Geeze, I’m enjoying my freshman year. Why waste my time in a church on Sundays, when I can be part of the panty raids in the dorm?
By CollegeBoy
November 20, 2006 06:08 PM | Link to this
Geeze, I’m enjoying my freshman year. Why waste my time in a church on Sundays, when I can be part of the panty raids in the dorm?
By past50mom
November 21, 2006 08:03 AM | Link to this
I saw a FOX interview with the breastfeeding mom who got kicked off the plane. She said she and her husband were seated toaward the back of the plane, she was next to the window and he was in the middle seat next to her. She said that nothing was showing and here comes a flight attendant (female) with a blanket and says here’s a blanket to cover the baby’s head while you are nursing. The mom declined the blanket, (who wants to use a suspect blanket on your baby’s head?) and the attendant insisted several more times, saying that the nursing “offended HER,” NOT that it offended any of the passengers. The mom continued to decline the blanket. The flight attendant then came back with the gate attendants and told the family they would have to leave the flight. The airlines spokesman told the press that they apologised to the family and offered them the opportunity to reboard the plane. BUT the Mom said that one of the captains came off the plane and apologised but said they have to back up their crew, they were not offered any oppoortunity to reboard, and the airlines gave them vouchers for overnight lodging. Totally bizarre.
By past50mom
November 21, 2006 08:11 AM | Link to this
I just heard on the radio that the airlines (Freedom/Delta) has disciplined the flight attendant. Practically speaking with all of the restrictions on bringing liquids through airlines security, it seems that a nursing mom has a much better “solution” than a mom with bottles of formula or pumped breastmilk!
By Slim
November 21, 2006 08:16 AM | Link to this
Why does everyone think Pagans are bad? They aren’t. They were the ones who worshipped the Sacred Feminine and the seasons, way before Christ ever showed up. It was when the bible was written, what 400 years after Christ, that they wanted everyone to follow christianity so they had to make the Pagans look bad, in order to make them look good.
By past50mom
November 21, 2006 08:30 AM | Link to this
The Sacred and the Profane is a great reference to put all of our religious beliefs and practices into prespective. Here’s the amazon link: http://www.amazon.com/Sacred-Profane-Nature-Religion/dp/015679201X
By Teacher's Kid
November 21, 2006 08:36 AM | Link to this
Regarding the breastfeeding mother, the child was 22 months old. There is little nutritional value of breastmilk at that age and in developed countries, a child that age should be drinking from a cup and eating table foods. If the child needed to be comforted during the flight, it would be better to offer the child their own blanket, stuffed animal or toy.
If the flight attendant said that she was offended, she is probably voicing a concern that was been brought to her attention by another passenger. She probably said that “she” was offended to avoid a potentially major confrontation between the mother and the passenger(s) who were offended. I have two friends who are flight attendants (one who just retired from USAirways after 40 years of service) and have heard countless stories of passengers and their antics. These days, you don’t know what you’re going to run into when you politely confront someone on their behavior and the flight attendant probably kept this in mind and took the fall saying that “she” was offended. As a frequent flier, I’m glad the flight attendant didn’t show partiality because the woman was a mother and I’m glad to see the captain backing up his crew. Take home lesson: if you don’t play by the rules, you’re off the plane. If you don’t like it, don’t fly. It’s that simple.
PS. If the mother wants to continue breastfeeding at that age, it is her choice, but I’d recommend that she bring her own blanket or shawl if she is traveling. Food for thought.
By jsmom
November 21, 2006 09:13 AM | Link to this
Teacher’s kid, I wonder if it was the age of the kid that was the problem? Would the Flight Attendant say anything to a mom nursing an infant? A 10 month old?
I know my little one doesn’t tolerate anything covering her up while she’s nursing. But there are ways to cover up and be discreet without using a blanket! (and ew, airplane blanket)
And I too appreciate the captain backing his crew. It’s not often you see a supervisor backing a decision made by staff… even if it was questionable!
By past50mom
November 21, 2006 09:38 AM | Link to this
Teacher’s kid, Are you a grown up with children yet, a pediatrician with your nutritional advice, or just a kid? Bottom line, the flight attendant did not handle this situation appropriately, and she has been disciplined. Many women nurse on airplanes, trains, and busses every day, and nursing a child under two is entirely acceptable. With cabin pressure changes upon take-off, nursing a baby helps to equalize their inner ear pressure, like chewing gum does for adults. Would you rather listen to a screaming child with hurting ears?
By Teacher's Kid
November 21, 2006 10:53 AM | Link to this
For the record, I am a 35 year old mother of two, a Registered Dietitian with a Bachelor of Science in Nutrition and Dietetics and a Master In Public Health (with honors) in Maternal and Child Health Nutrition with 12 years of experience in maternal and pediatric nutrition.
By Teacher's Kid
November 21, 2006 11:23 AM | Link to this
PS. The 22 month old child should have also been in a child restraint, not in its parents’ arms. Take off and landing are the most vulnerable times for a plane during the flight and a child held in its parents arms can be crushed or worse, thrown from their parents arms in the event of a crash or major turbulence. Per the AAP website in an article dated 1 SEP 05:
“Preventable injuries and deaths have occurred in children younger than 2 years who were unrestrained in aircraft during survivable crashes and conditions of turbulence. The American Academy of Pediatrics recommends a mandatory federal requirement for restraint use for children on aircraft. The Academy further recommends that parents ensure that a seat is available for all children during aircraft transport and follow current recommendations for restraint use for all children.”
Yes, this means buying an extra ticket, but having experienced major turbulence on trans-pacific flights (we’re talking The Scream Machine at Six Flags variety) that sent objects flying, it is a small investment compared to the lasting after effects of a traumatic brain injury (or worse).
Regarding ear pain during take-off/landing, a pacifier (which most mothers use, including breastfeeding mothers) works just as well and can safely be used by a child in a restraint seat.
I’m sorry to see that Delta didn’t stick to their guns. It sends a terrible message to the flight crew.
By PerturbedinDecatur
November 22, 2006 11:50 AM | Link to this
Let’s set aside the discussion on where a 22-month old child should be during takeoff and landing - the reality is that airlines allow lap children until 2 years. While I agree completely that a restrained child may be safer, I think the bigger issue here is that a parent was trying to do what was right for her child in that particular moment and was removed from a plane for an act that did not endanger a single other passenger.
I believe that parents have the right to make decisions regarding care and comfort of their own children - for some, that means breastfeeding a 22-month old. I also find it hard to believe that anyone around this family was so offended that they would have wanted them removed from the plane. I’ve nursed on many flights, always as discretely as possible and often in the exact positioning described in this incident. You really would have to work very hard to see ANYTHING.
I think it was complete appropriate for Delta to clarify their stance on breastfeeding, and to clarify with the crew in question that removal the family was inappropriate.