MOMania

By mom3boys

August 1, 2006 07:37 AM | Link to this

My very first year I did…then as a PTA volunteer, my job was to fill out the membership cards. They were attached to the donation forms. I realized I was the only one in the school (ok, slight exaggeration)who gave the full amount. Now I join PTA and make the clinic donation. That’s all. Here’s a hint…put all the money you are saving every year in an account. When you son/daughter reaches their junior and senior year, you might have enough to pay the junior and senior dues! At that point, the “donation” is no longer an option…dig deep!!

By Joe Camp

August 1, 2006 07:46 AM | Link to this

I give the funds requested. However, I am no fan of the fundraisers that the PTA puts on later in the year, the one where kids -well, parents- hawk cheap merchandise or candy out of a little catalogue. They really hype the kids up by tracking their “sales” and giving prizes with an Amway furvor.

I will buy a thing or two and let the girls cold call my parents, but I do not carry the catalogue to work. I also frown on employees who interrupt the workday and corner their peers into buying something.

There are better ways to raise additional funds, like bake sales or school fairs.

My daughters’ Gwinnett County elementary school’s PTA budget last year was around $90K. I was initially shocked at the number. However, they seem to do a good job with the money and they also keep the books well maintained and independently audited.

By A teacher's perspective

August 1, 2006 07:55 AM | Link to this

A teacher’s perspective: I think since every category is broken down, you should feel very much at liberty to contibute only for items you feel are relevant and important. In all honesty, I do not see anything on your list that can be perceived as going above and beyond what it takes for a school to produce an effective, rich and meaningful learning environment. Think of it this way, if in fact your child is precious to you, isn’t he or she worth $63 a year? Divide that by 180 and find out what a great value you are getting! I think the fact that queries re school supplies and activity fees are raised says that we in the trenches of schools are not trusted. Don’t forget, we aren’t into politics, we are into what is best for kids. Please don’t confuse us with the enemy! We are not in the business of spending money on unnecessary band-aids, hand sanitizer and tissues. Re the student directory, I have never seen a need for the school to produce an entire directory. Yes, a class directory would be very helpful especially because I fully support a scenario that does not allow a student to pass out birthday party invitations in class. For phones/addresses outside the class, I think if students don’t already have the friends’ info. they can certainly talk to them and get it before school, on the bus, etc.
P.S. School directories facilitate crank calling…

By l'villemom

August 1, 2006 08:07 AM | Link to this

I’m a teacher too. I give to PTA and the clinic. If my kid wasn’t a frequent flyer at the clinic, I’d skip that one, too!

By decaturparent

August 1, 2006 08:33 AM | Link to this

Yep, I pay it but the whole thing ticks me off sometimes because we pay astronomically high property taxes so it seems that this stuff should be funded.

But then I remember who our president and governor are.

Re the directory, I have never worried about the privacy issue. My kids have a lot of friends who end up in other classes, so it is nice to have their numbers.

I wonder when they are going to add an NCLB fee to the request from parents since no one is bothering to fund it properly.

By l'villemom

August 1, 2006 08:37 AM | Link to this

Decaturparent: Our property taxes are among the lowest in the nation. These fees have been around for the 13 years I’ve had kids in school…which include a period of a different party’s administration in both Washington and Atlanta. My brother in California pays triple what I pay here…Wisconsin pays huge school taxes…check the almanac, you might be surprised how good you have it!

By nikki

August 1, 2006 08:46 AM | Link to this

Oh honey hush! Elementary is just a tip of the iceberg. High school mandates you floating loans. Not to mention they want you to go out and raise fund, send you dinner invitations only to hit you up for money and ask you to write legislators for “pork” money.

By fk

August 1, 2006 08:55 AM | Link to this

Yes, I did make the contributions, and I still do, now at the high school level. If this small amount of money is going to enhance my son’s experience in some way, it’s worth it? The directory is a good idea. It comes in very handy.

By Parent2B

August 1, 2006 09:09 AM | Link to this

As a parent to be this year and an uncle to many nieces and nephews who call us for fundraisers, this has to stop. But what do you expect from GOVERNMENT RUN schools. I was married to a school teacher once and it was insane what she had to spend out of pocket to prepare her classroom. School fundraisers should not be necessary if the schools and governement would get their act together. I hope and pray that I will be able to send my child to a private school and avoid all this mess.

By Tam

August 1, 2006 09:15 AM | Link to this

Yes, all schools ask for everything you just named and believe me if you don’t contribute to the party fund for your child class you will be forever branded as the parent that won’t contribute. I know was and always have been a room mom and the parent that don’t ( volunteering or monteary) help are talked about…not by me but other room moms. Oh don’t forgot about field trips since gas has gone up the trips are more expensive. Welcome to the public school system!!!

By will

August 1, 2006 10:08 AM | Link to this

Thank god my mother never organized a “playdate” for me. I know times have changed, (however, not as much as we’ve convinced ourselves) but parents are way too involved in their childs social development. A “playdate” was simply the kid next door hanging out in the backyard or the basement on a rainy day. My kids never had “playdates”, we are blessed to live in a neighborhood with a lot of kids and they just played. Did we and do we monitor them, yes, but in the end it’s just kids playing. Neither my wife, nor I, ever had to interview perspective playmates and their parents, analyze the social implications involved in the establishment of a “playdate” relationship, inspect said playmates homes and yards, then carefully orchestrate a preperscribed itenerary of carefully metered…fun(?) We’d like to say that this only happens with the “little guys”, the 2 or 3 year olds. But, we see it all the time, the same parents that did it in preschool are still attempting to do it in high school. As a result the kids involved are distant and needy.

By Mike K.

August 1, 2006 10:14 AM | Link to this

Ok I don’t have kids (yet), but doesn’t it seem odd that parents have to contribute for school supplies when half of the state budget is intended for education? I can understand the PTA or the student directory since those probably aren’t considered necessary by the school system.

By Iknowtoo

August 1, 2006 10:43 AM | Link to this

I know that some parents would have a difficult time coming up with this amount, especially if they have more than one child. Our students are only required to pay for locker rental and an agenda. That is a lot for some parents. I would rather that they spend their money on pencils and paper for the kids than some of the things that Theresa listed.

By Rod

August 1, 2006 10:57 AM | Link to this

I’ve got a question for you. I’m a homeowner and pay LOTS of school taxes with my property bill every year. However, there are many children at our school that live in apartments - therefore, their parents haven’t paid a single dime in school taxes.

Why doesn’t the school have these families (in apartments) pay an additional “fee”? I’m sure it would be no where near what I pay, but at least I wouldn’t be continually hit up for more money! I shouldn’t have to pay extra for their child’s education just because they live in an apartment.

By Renee

August 1, 2006 11:00 AM | Link to this

Hey, I agree with Rod. Why do I (as a homeowner) have to keep paying these additional costs while people in apartments can get off scot-free?

Since they’re not paying any school taxes (like I am), they should have to pay an additional fee - a few hundred dollars - to help support the school!

By Been There Done That

August 1, 2006 11:05 AM | Link to this

When my kids were in school we did play some of this, HOWEVER… now that I no longer have any in school, why am I STILL paying exhorbatant school taxes!!!

The neighbor’s kids don’t bring there fund raisers to our house anymore and my kids did not participate. As my husband says, if my taxes aren’t enough, where is the lottery money going.

By decaturparent

August 1, 2006 11:18 AM | Link to this

L’ville mom - I pay $9000 per year in property taxes. School funding was cut dramatically under Perdue’s “austerity” cuts and has not been replaced. Bush (and Kennedy - I’ll give you that) have pushed through the biggest unfunded mandate I have ever seen.

Rod and Renee - tenants do pay property taxes. They are included when the rent for their property is set. I used to be a landlord, and I can assure you that I passed on those costs.

By avillar - Mark

August 1, 2006 11:20 AM | Link to this

Shouldn’t your PTA ask the school for a breakdown of where the budget goes? The school should be able to give this information.

In Atlanta it is $9000+/student for a weak education. You and the Moms might be able to find out where all that money (and your voluntary funds) go. It does not go to the children I am sure.

Mark

By decaturparent

August 1, 2006 11:22 AM | Link to this

Parent2B - you haven’t seen obnoxious fundraising until you have been in a private school!

By Rod

August 1, 2006 11:24 AM | Link to this

decaturparent - let me try and understand this. You’re saying if Mr. Jones rents an apartment (say a Post apartment) for $1,200 per month, a certain amount (maybe $30/mo) goes to the county to pay for the school? I’ve never heard of this. If this is correct, I’m happy about it.

By supermom

August 1, 2006 11:28 AM | Link to this

My daughter just started her first day of kindergarten today, so all this is new to me. There was a list of school supplies to buy, and there wasn’t anything that said if it’s my daughter’s supplies or if it’s a donation for the whole classroom. Since it said “do not label items” I supposed the latter. My husband couldn’t believe he had to pay for other kids’ school supplies. As a student teacher, I understand the teacher’s point of view, so I did buy almost everything anyway. It was about $20. I chipped in because it isn’t fair to make the teacher pay out of pocket for everything, and my daughter will go to school prepared. In Cherokee county, growth is unbelieveable, hence, about 7 more schools are being built to accommodate the population. I don’t have a problem giving $20 worth of supplies because so much is going to build new schools. As far as high school, can someone tell me how it’s more expensive, what’s the extra things to pay for? Other than prom and football tickets?

By Rod

August 1, 2006 11:33 AM | Link to this

The Georgia Lottery was supposed to put a stop to all of this, wasn’t it? I mean it’s millions and millions of dollars going straight to the schools. If the lottery ended today, I guess we wouldn’t be talking about an additional $20-50 per child, but rather hundreds?!?!

By ly

August 1, 2006 11:45 AM | Link to this

I’m a homeowner and pay way above my share of taxes, but in defense of the persons renting and not paying taxes: 1)Their the ones playing the lotto most, so they do contribute & 2) They don’t get the tax deductions that we do at year end, so they essentially pay more in Federal & State taxes.

By ly

August 1, 2006 11:48 AM | Link to this

Rod, that’s true. I have 2 rentals & include the property taxes in their monthly rent. The persons who rent are the one’s that really lose out. Pay & no deduction.

By Mike K.

August 1, 2006 11:51 AM | Link to this

Does anyone know if an independent audit has been done to determine where the money goes for each school district?

By John

August 1, 2006 11:53 AM | Link to this

To all you childless taxpayers out there, I remind you that your investment in school taxes is returned in the value of the home you live in. Try selling your house in a neighborhood that doesn’t have a school! There should be no additional fees or outlay by teachers for instructional materials. This ridiculous system was established as a ploy by the school boards and politicians to fund the school system without having to do their due diligence in the budget process. If the funds are needed, they need to be budgeted for by the people responsible for the budget. If there’s not enough money in the budget for materials, then taxes need to be raised or the budget cut in other, less vital, areas. Enough already! Do your jobs and stop hounding the parents!

By Leslie

August 1, 2006 12:32 PM | Link to this

Georgia Lottery goes for pre-K and Hope scholarships. The wide divide isn’t touched by those funds.

My daughter’s school is considered the top elementary inside the perimeter, nestled in a neighborhood full of $1M+ homes. Certain members of the zoning and planning boards have brought up the apartment issue before, and have actually rezoned the district to exclude as many as possible. That is another issue entirely, but I do think it’s one that needs to be looked at with all the facts. I don’t think people like “Rod” who think that apartment dwellers get off without paying taxes are few and far between.

As for all the fees and requested contributions - between the school, extracurricular activities, Girl Scouts, etc. etc….we’d be paying probably more than $1K each year if we did everything. We join the PTA, buy one fundraising item, support the Girl Scouts, and buy our own teacher gifts. We then contribute our TIME, which is supposedly invaluable, to the school in different forms - volunteering for events, relieving some administrative duties, etc.

There are some people who would rather just write a check and be done with the school responsibility, and that’s just as good too. But if you look at all these requests for money and feel like it’s too much - don’t feel bullied into doing it. Do what you feel is right, and then contribute in other ways.

By Ernest

August 1, 2006 12:58 PM | Link to this

If my children’s school presented a list like this, I’d support it by funding most categories. I’d also ask for a list to see how each category was ultimately funded.

I agree with Leslie, I try to volunteer at the school whenever possible. Hopefully my time is perceived to be more valuable than any financial contribution.

By HL

August 1, 2006 01:12 PM | Link to this

Rod - I also have a rental house and my tenants pay the property taxes. My tenants pay the full bill - mortgage (P&I), HOA dues, property taxes (state and city) and insurance.

decaturparent - your property taxes are higher than maybe some in Atlanta. But, I have a family in the Midwest that pay much more than you and I am going to assume live in a cheaper house. My parents when they lived in their $180K house(10 yrs ago)they paid $5K/yr in the Midwest. We have friends that still live there today and pay over $12K/yr for a $400k house. The schools in that area are excellent.

In the Midwest, we didn’t have any of these fees. You paid a couple dollars for the school field trips. That generally was to purchase McDonald’s or something similar. It was never for the cost to get into the event or for the bus. We had 6th grade outdoor education and we paid a bit more because it was over night. We did not share our school supplies. The only thing we were asked to bring to the class to share was one or two boxes of tissue. That’s it. There were not clinics or high school dues. We even were sent home with Mini-tels (before the internet) to do our physics homework on…we could dial into the school and get homework problems. It was all donated/or grant money from US West. If we wanted to keep the physics text we could pay $.50. This was 12 years ago. You only paid fees if you played sports. In elementary school, we had a HUGE carnival put on by the PTA. We also had a Buzz book. Middle School we didn’t have anything. High School made their money from the vending machines, sporting events, yearbooks and school productions. NO extra donations. Possibly a $10 lab fee in Chemistry…but I don’t remember if that was high school or college.

By HL

August 1, 2006 01:15 PM | Link to this

Oh, another thing I liked better about education in the Midwest…the Bus was not a RIGHT! I am so sick of parents who think it is a right. You should see how much the school districts spend on busing…just think if you carpooled and took your own kids how the money could be reallocated. If you lived more than 4 miles away, then you could choose to take the bus…at $.50 each way. I never took the bus because we lived blocks from elementary and middle school. In high school, my parents drove until I was old enough to drive.

By penguinmom

August 1, 2006 01:16 PM | Link to this

The real problem is that our property tax money is spent on administrator salaries instead of things for the kids. In Georgia, there are way too many administrators per child. If we could cut the pork salaries at the top of the school systems, there would be plenty of money to fund what the children need.

If you buy school supplies for your kid and send them in the first day expect them to be confiscated and redistributed so that everyone has an equal share. (Socialism at work in our society.)

By HL

August 1, 2006 01:19 PM | Link to this

I agree with you penguinmom on both points. Administrators are WAY over paid and there are too many. Also as a child, I would have been devistated if my things were taken. I drove my mom crazy because I wanted each notebook for each subject to be a different color with a matching folder…she wouldn’t buy the Trapper Keeper because she thought it was a rip off!

By kay

August 1, 2006 01:21 PM | Link to this

I support the PTA, sometimes the Arts because there are field trips to some great places around the city. The PTA in our area will assist with trips throughout the year as well. I don’t give to the clinic because all I ever see them hand out are baggies with ice. I’m usually too turned off by the clinic because I get the impression that all the nurses can do is hand out “behavioral” drugs. Anything else like assisting with cold medication would be too much. I will not allow my daughter to sell those fundraising items. Instead I ask a few co-workers and neighbors to save box tops for us.

By Another Mother

August 1, 2006 01:23 PM | Link to this

Folks, we pay school taxes so that we can have an educated populace just as we all pay taxes for roads and other things for the common good. It’s not just about “me and mine”. My children are out of the public schools now, but I don’t mind paying school taxes for the generations that will be running things when I’m an old lady. And by the way dear Been There and Done That, when you start ragging on funds for education make sure you know how to spell exhorbitant and the proper use of “their” vs “there”.

By kay

August 1, 2006 01:26 PM | Link to this

Too many administrators, I agree. Have you ever worked or spoken with anyone from a central office? Some of these people make 6 figures and can not hold a decent conversation.

By Renee

August 1, 2006 01:39 PM | Link to this

Hey Another Mother, you forgot to point out that Been There and Done That left out two question marks from his comments.

By E. Lewis

August 1, 2006 02:11 PM | Link to this

The reality is that most people would rather pay these voluntary donation than their taxes and it’s politically easier.

By BlindHomer

August 1, 2006 02:46 PM | Link to this

$63 is cheap. I spend more than that on really bad frozen pizza, donuts, gift wrap, etc. for the incessant fund raisers. Then there are the cheerleading, band, and soccer fees. All in all it’s a bargain compared to say Blessed Trinity with hefty tuition, no relief from property taxes, and no band.

By Single Mom

August 1, 2006 02:52 PM | Link to this

You know a lot of you people have great comments and wonderful ideas. I am a single mother of two small children. My daughter starts school next year and my son still has two years. I would not have a problem with paying any amount of money to the school system if it is going to help my children through out the year. However I think and feel that the government is wasting money in other areas that could be spent on better education and educational needs. If the government would stop paying these so called high profile people to sit on their butts all that extra money then the school system could be a better place. I mean just think about all the money that is wasted.. But us little people have no say so what goes on. Even if we have the right to vote.

By decaturparent

August 1, 2006 03:00 PM | Link to this

Penguinmom,

To thwart the “socialism” in public school, I boldly write my kids’ names in Sharpie on all of “their” folders, notebooks etc. I then send in another set to be used for those kids who come to school with nothing with a note to the teacher explaining what they are for.

I have always fantasized about buying a bunch of notebooks and folders with Jesus on them just to see what they would do with them in the “redistribution” scheme. I clearly have a sick mind.

By E. Lewis

August 1, 2006 03:01 PM | Link to this

My niece attends a private school that was chosen by her parents in no small part because of the relatively low tuition. My brother-in-law loved touting how this school can do it so much cheaper than the public education system can. But as my sister has found out, the total cost is in the fine print.

REQUIRED DONATIONS that the school asked over the last couple of years: toilet paper, paper towel, children’s Tylenol, band aids, drinking cups, hand soap, sanitizer, library fees, textbook fees, science fees, field trip fees, building fees, scholarship fund fees, uniforms, holiday party event fees, etc., etc.

By Oconee County Mom

August 1, 2006 03:01 PM | Link to this

As a single Mom with a soon-to-be-senior who has had a private school education from k-12th grade I laugh at someone feeling that $53/year is to much to pay for schooling. If you don’t feel that your child’s school is providing him/her with quality education, get out of the goverment school system. As for apartment dwellers, they have no equity involved and are only living month to month. I’m sure it’s a political firestorm, maybe if I was in the public school arena I would feel different.

By Jesse's Girl

August 1, 2006 03:12 PM | Link to this

I have a real hard time with this. It just drives the point home how under-appreciated our educators really are. These “donations” wouldn’t be as neccessary if the powers that be would give the schools enough money in the first place. I also understand that another reason these lists are sent out is directly related to the uninvolved parent. Some parents just send their kid off on the bus and basically resign them to the school and teachers for the rest of the day…with no regard for how well (or ill ) prepared these schools and teachers are. Some people just don’t give a biscuit what is going on. Teachers are spending their own money? This thought never occurs to some parents. But this is a huge reason why we decided to send the girls to a private school this year. Our supplies are not handed out to other students, our teachers are compensated more appropriately, and we are given a detailed explanation as to what our tuition is paying for. I’m not knocking public schools…some are very good. But I like knowing what I am getting…or more to the point what our kids are getting.

By ly

August 1, 2006 03:19 PM | Link to this

I think the most rediculous items we had to get this year (and last) were the $3 book covers for each book. That’s $18 bucks just for starters. I’m sure the school system could order these in mass quantities & probably get that cost down to about .50 each. Overall I think this item should be issued with the book each year and if it is damaged then charge it back to the child/parent. I don’t mind sending in a few extra items for the children who’s parents can’t afford everything, but things like the book cover really bug me!

By Rod

August 1, 2006 03:19 PM | Link to this

Well, Oconee County Mom - I guess this is where we’re all supposed to applaud you for sending your child through a private school all on your own. What that has to do with this situation and blog, I have no idea.

Those of us who send our children to public school (scandalous to you, I’m sure) do have a right to be upset that we have to pay extra for things that the school system should be covering. You chose to pay extensively for schooling, others of us cannot afford that or choose to support public education.

By Rod

August 1, 2006 03:23 PM | Link to this

Hey ly, I remember when I was in school (I’m 41), we made our own book covers on one of the first days of school. We would bring in paper grocery bags (before everyone had plastic) and cut them to fit. They were extremely nice, cheap and provided a canvas for the child to make custom artwork! Although, I remember one year my mom got these cool clear covers - looked great, except at the end of the year they peeled the real cover right off!

By Lynn

August 1, 2006 03:27 PM | Link to this

Who took money away from the school systems? Sonny did!

By E. Lewis

August 1, 2006 03:28 PM | Link to this

The private school my niece attends takes possesion of most supplies. It is their property not hers.

By C. Brown

August 1, 2006 03:28 PM | Link to this

Of all those things listed, I would not pay the PTA dues since most of that $5 will go out of your local school to the state and national PTA and will not benefit your own school. Also, PTA has paid lobbyists to persuade Congress not to vote for school choice options such as school vouchers and charter schools. If you don’t believe in their cookie-cutter, everybody gets the same thing theory, then you don’t want to support them anyway. I believe I should have some say-so in deciding how to spend the thousands of dollars allocated to my children for their education.

By ly

August 1, 2006 03:31 PM | Link to this

Rod, great idea! Now they expect you to buy the strech covers for each book. They hold up much better than a plastic cover but when made in mass production, they can’t cost little or nothing & Office Depot is making a killing off of them. I heard on the radio yesterday, that school shopping tops above Christmas shopping. The only ones to truely benifit are the businesses.

By Oconee County Mom

August 1, 2006 03:34 PM | Link to this

Rod, A public school education is not in any way scandalous to me. I was educated in a great public school system. But for the past 25 years I have gotten tired of watching my friends and family memebers who teach here in Oconee County pay a ridiculous amount of cash from their own pockets and still not have all the supplies they need to have a fully stocked classroom. I decided a long time ago that I would not be involved with a system that would never be able to give me an accounting. of where my funds are going for public school. So, do I pay for all the “extras” in the classroom? Yes, every month as I make a tuition payment. But,the difference is I can get an exact breakdown of where my monies are going. Is my child getting a broader education? That is still to be seen.

By HL

August 1, 2006 03:37 PM | Link to this

And, through business and consumerism we keep the economy going which in some way ends up in everyone’s pocket that works.

By nicky

August 1, 2006 03:45 PM | Link to this

I would have no problem with most of the fees except for school supplies. It isn’t my responsibility to purchase supplies for other parents’ children, and I will spend what is necessary to make sure my daughter comes to school fully supplied with what she needs. Personal responsibility has to enter the picture at some point, and parents are responsible for sending their children to school prepared and equiped with what they need.

Actually, as for the PTA, if they have really pushed for the non-school choice and against vouchers, I won’t pay that fee either. The rest of the fees I don’t mind paying.

It’s unfortunate if a teacher ends up spending his/her own money to buy supplies for children, but the possibility that it might happen is something they know going into the job.

By ly

August 1, 2006 04:04 PM | Link to this

HL, I don’t have stock in Office Depot and with the tax free days this weekend, the State doesn’t gain either…just the business itself.

By bud

August 1, 2006 04:09 PM | Link to this

I’ll tell you what’s a pain in my @ss…Involuntary school donations. Two-thirds of my property tax goes to paying for your crotchfruit to get educated by the government.

People tell me “Well, it helps the kids get an education so they won’t carjack you…” But that’s a bunch of B.S…THE PARENTS OF THE KIDS SHOULD BEAR THE COSTS OF EDUCATING THEIR KIDS. IF YOU AREN’T IN A POSITION TO PAY TUITION FOR YOUR CHILDREN’S EDUCATION YOU SHOULDN’T HAVE CHILDREN.

By ly

August 1, 2006 04:21 PM | Link to this

oh BUD…take a chill pill already. This blog has been rather nice today until you lurked around the corner.

By BarnabasDaughter

August 1, 2006 04:58 PM | Link to this

I am a Gwinnett County high school special ed teacher. Something I haven’t seen mentioned here (unless I missed it) is that NONE of these contributions are mandatory and that NO child is to be denied access to supplies and equipment which the school or teacher deems necessary to provide a well-rounded experience. In our department, we have combated the problem of students not being able to provide fees and supplies by selling school supplies and chips between classes. This “school store” is staffed by one of our IDMild classes, supervised by their teacher, and provides a good amount of discretionary income (subject to the oversight of our department, department head and principal) plus it gives the involved students valuable experience in making change, stocking, etc. With this money, we’ve bought not only school supplies, but given scholarships for summer school, purchased glasses for kids and taken kids who need it to get inexpensive clothing or winter coats. All this without demanding money from anyone nor asking any students to participate in fund raisers.

By puleeze

August 1, 2006 05:41 PM | Link to this

Nicky,

Did you know that the U.S. Department of Education (yes, Ms. Spelling’s own… ) just released a large study that they conducted which shows that private schools perform as well or slightly worse that public schools provided that you adjust for income levels within the schools.

If you don’t believe me go here… http://nces.ed.gov/pubsearch/pubsinfo.asp?pubid=2006461

By decaturparent

August 1, 2006 05:50 PM | Link to this

Bud - you too were someone’s adorable crotchfruit a few decades ago. Why don’t you call your mother and use that nasty mouth explain that concept to her.

I am sure that my crotchfruit will enjoy paying for your sorry A%! retirment and prescriptions most of their lives but receive nothing in return when they retire.

Plus, my crotchfruit can whoop your crotchfruit’s behind. ;)

By Eileen

August 1, 2006 05:54 PM | Link to this

You people need to get a grip. Taxes here are WAY cheaper than anywhere else I’ve lived. In NJ I paid $8000. +, and in FL it was almost $12,000. Both houses were comparable to what we now have in GA. Your taxes are a bargain, and the schools my kids attend are good. Maybe not as good as NJ, but better than FL for sure. I willingly pay whatever is asked to the PTA or the classroom fund. My sister is a teacher, and it’s beyond comprehension what she shells out to outfit her classroom. I hate fundraisers. I’d rather write a check than peddle useless junk. Now, if you want to talk about the high price of playing sports here in GA, I can agree completely. Do these kids really need to play in astroturf stadiums with instant replay scoreboards? I’ve already been told I’m “expected” to make a sizeable donation to the fieldhouse fund, and if my son opts to tryout for the baseball team, I should plan on $500 to purchase a grandstand seat. This is on top of the $350 minimum fee to play per sport.

By Taxpayer

August 1, 2006 06:01 PM | Link to this

Among the worst are the booster club dues. Football and basketball players, cheerleaders, and managers are required to pay these in our DeKalb County school. I have yet to see any benefit from these dues and feel it is illegal to charge kids this fee on top of uniform rentals, equipment rentals, etc. What does this money pay for? I’ve never received an accounting of how the money was spent. I’ve heard something about a revamping of the laws governing booster clubs in Georgia or perhaps just in the county, and if either is true, then I am delighted that there will perhaps be some reform and some accountability. Right now, it just looks like extortion.

By baffled

August 1, 2006 06:22 PM | Link to this

Simple solution to this: If you don’t like it, don’t pay. They are VOLUNTARY. I’d also like for someone to explain how the school systems would pay for all of the things they’re asking the parents to do voluntarily. I’ve recently discovered that money really doesn’t grow on trees.

By HS Science Teacher

August 1, 2006 06:39 PM | Link to this

Science fees are used to reimburse teachers for “grocery” items used in labs. I teach chemistry and have several labs that use candy to model important concepts. It sure is fun to measure a lollipop, mass it, eat it, and remass it to get measurements that can then be used to practice conversions.

By SchoolMom

August 1, 2006 07:01 PM | Link to this

These ‘donations’ are rediculous. Maybe they should spend more on supplies for the school and less on fancy office furniture (our principal just had her office redone). We are given a list of what our child will need. Then we’re hit up for what other kids need. If it’s not through another list it’s more subtle. A couple of years ago when my s on was in elementary school he came home and informed us that his teacher had produced buckets for them to pour all of their supplies in to create a ‘classroom supply cabinet.’ When I spoke with her to find out the detaiils I was told that it was so that all the kids had access to the same items and no one would feel left out.(come on! jealousy over crayons? How petty). After about half an hour of ‘discussion’ she finally agreed that he would keep his supplies. Within a week, the rest of the class had done the same thing. Teachers and administrators should keep their socialist ideals to themselves.

By Elane

August 2, 2006 06:26 AM | Link to this

Elementary school parents, you’ll probably be able to relax once they get to middle school. I actually miss Sally Foster and all the other “volunteer ops” that went with those earlier years. Once they’re in high school, it seems nobody wants the parents’ input. Public school, at any rate. By this time the parents have plenty of experience - you’d think the schools would know that and use it to their advantage. I guess they figure at this age, the parents are focusing their time & money on getting ready for college.

By mom3boys

August 2, 2006 06:35 AM | Link to this

re: property tax is not equal to school tax. I realize some of you are paying way more than me in property tax (i.e Decatur parent pays $9000 compared to my paltry $2000). This can be attributed to the fact that his house is probably worth 4-5 times what mine is! I live in Gwinnett, not Decatur. Property taxes do help fund schools, but not entirely. In Gwinnett, new construction is paid for out of SPLOST funds (special purpose local action sales tax). Here is why I do or don’t pay each “voluntary contribution”:

technology: buys paper for the lab…save to disc and save paper…I don’t pay school supply: I buy my kids’ supplies,don’t pay this one either clinic: I pay this PTA: I pay this so I can vote and so my kids’ class has 100% membership and get some dumb prize directory: our school doesn’t do this instructional enhancement: we don’t have this..again, I think it’s paper party fee: we don’t have this one arts in education: I sometimes pay this, depends who is scheduled or if. Every grade level doesn’t get this every year. If it’s Michael White, it’s so worth it!!!! Accelerated reader: we don’t do this til middle school, but our middle school doesn’t charge for it…it’s paid for out of PTA donations!

Maybe my schools just have awesome PTAs that fund things for us, but we don’t ask for as much as Theresa’s school. If I pay everything on my form this year, it’s $35. I’m down to just 2 kids in school this year, maybe I will pay it all! I guess it depends on how much the high school is going to hit me up for…I think junior dues are close to $200. What about some of the insane sports/band fees?? Band is $550!!!! Then there’s mandatory fundraising. What about football? You have to mail letters to family/friends asking for money! Then if you want to park anywhere near the field it’s $250! Cheerleaders have to pay extra to pay the sponsor because it’s “not a school sponsored sport.” It’s insane.

By catlady

August 2, 2006 07:15 AM | Link to this

I’ve been teaching 32 years and I have never seen such a list! Our parents can join pta for $5 or less and they can buy a yearbook for $19 later, and of course, school pictures later, but that is all only if they wish. We never ask for any of those other kinds of money. “Just see that they are awake and have a pencil (optional) and send ‘em on!”

By catlady

August 2, 2006 07:30 AM | Link to this

And about supply sharing. At our school, students get a list of needs and wishes. Wishes include tissue and sanitizer. Many of the students have all the needs; some bring the wishes, too. Teachers supply the rest out of their pockets. We also buy bookbags, paper, etc. for about 25% of our students. I never pool student-purchased stuff, but I did see something I thought was very sweet one year. A boy with a cigar box started a pencil bank. As long as you put one pencil into the bank, you could use a pencil anytime you forgot one. The wealthier students put lots of pencils in, and the poorer ones gave one pencil and then were covered. As he explained it to me, “Sometimes you just forget, so it is good to have a place to go to get what you need.”

What bothers me is seeing children on free/reduced lunch who bring several dollars to school every day to buy a (junk food) snack from the school store!

By AM

August 2, 2006 07:53 AM | Link to this

It’s funny how we pay higher property tax, sales tax, federal tax and then we are expected to pay more, However many families are “not left behind” Yeah the ones who are not paying those other taxes - and we all know who they are! The same ones who ar putting a strain on the underfunded (obviously) system. My child plays sports, when I was a student it was all FREE. This country amazes me - We are going in the wrong direction!!

By RW

August 2, 2006 08:39 AM | Link to this

Rod, if you think the landlord isn’t passing the property taxes along to the tenants, you have no grasp of economics.

Mom3boys, two comments. First, all PTAs that are part of the state organization must be independently audited to stay in good standing. Second, if you think bake sales will raise the money for the costs most PTAs cover at schools today, you’re sadly mistaken. Bake sales raise very little money, must be staffed by parents (who work), and selling home-baked food is a liability issue.

Finally, Parent2B, if you think the same fee requests and fundraisers don’t come home from private schools, you’re living in a fantasy world.

By singlemom

August 2, 2006 08:43 AM | Link to this

For heaven’s sake, you all need to take a pill. So your child’s supplies end up on a “communal pool”. Big freaking deal. Some kids come from homes that cannot afford to pay. I have absolutely no problem helping out with school supplies. As a matter of fact, I believe I go a little overboard, but it helps. I support my daughter’s school. So I spent an extra $10.00 to help out with supplies. Guess what else I do, I purchase nice gifts for the two Gwinnett County Policemen who direct traffic in and out of the school, who are out there each and every day, in the pouring rain, freezing cold, etc. I support my daughter’s school and her education. Ya’ll need to quit whining and grow up.

By Karen Armsby

August 2, 2006 08:46 AM | Link to this

My kids are all college age now, but back in the day I volunteered in the schools, did PTA fundraising and I always gave all of the requested donations. Our property taxes pay for building schools, maintaining and staffing them, and for furniture and basic equipment. Taxes do not pay for the consumables in classes. Taxes do not pay for science equipment, art supplies, extra computer programs, all of the stuff used for classes. Shortfalls are often made up by the teachers and by PTA fundraisers. Especially in high school, the science fee or art fee pays for the equipment and supplies items used in those classes. Why would anyone think that everyone should pay for the expenses of classes that not all students take? These are user fees folks. Parents are fools if they think public schools are free or should be free. If only the parents (rich and poor) who are complaining would compare the cost of school fees with what they spend on name brand shoes and clothes, electronics and entertainment for their kids.

By mom3boys

August 2, 2006 09:08 AM | Link to this

In classrooms where the kids sit at tables, it makes more sense to have communal supplies in the middle of the table. It’s no secret that they all share. It’s one big bin. When they have desks, they keep their own stuff. I love the pencil bank idea! I’m doing that in my classroom this year, but it’s more of an orphan pen or pencil…the ones that are left behind. But, if you put one up for “adoption” then when you don’t have what you need, it’s not a big deal…just go get one w/ out interrupting class. Same w/ paper…place some for adoption, and when you need some, adopt it!

By Rod

August 2, 2006 09:22 AM | Link to this

RW - why are you being so nasty? Yes, I have a very good concept of economics (an MBA in finance and I’m an investment broker). I just asked a simple question about the school tax. Then you made rude comments to others as well. This blog was quite nice and peaceful without you. Take your attitude and go back to sleep.

By Richard

August 2, 2006 09:28 AM | Link to this

Hey singlemom, why don’t you keep your unwanted opinions to yourself?!?! Just because you feel like throwing your money around, doesn’t give you the right to critisize others who are more fiscally responsible. We have a right to be upset that the “expenses” never seem to end.

By the way here’s your “pat on the back” for giving gifts to the two police officers (since you were obviously wanting one). Guess what - they are getting paid for that duty - if it was to “rough”, then they wouldn’t be doing that job and would get another. Do you give gifts to the janitor at the school? The principal? The secretaries? Every single teacher? Get off your high horse and grow up yourself!

Maybe if you weren’t such a nasty woman, you wouldn’t be a singlemom anymore!

By catlady

August 2, 2006 09:33 AM | Link to this

mom3boys—just think of it as NPLB—No Pencil Left Behind! And you are right, it was a great idea. The wealthy kids put in scads of fancy pencils, the poor put in one or two yellow ones, and they all had their choice of what was in the bank that particular day. I kept “orphans” at my desk, but they were rarely needed. And, from time to time, I added ordinary pencils I bought. While it is possible someone would take advantage of it, since it was peer-oriented, they used peer-pressure to handle it. For paper, usually friends (defined very loosely) volunteer to help each other out, with a friendly understanding that next time it could be the other person needing help. Funny how our children are so much more egalitarian than we are!

Going back to something SNY said earlier, it is surprising to me how many times I have overheard a parent say, “You need more paper?! But I bought you a pack to share with your siblings 6 months ago. Where did that go?! Those money-grubbing teachers…..” SNY, many times what a parent buys in August is ALL a parent buys for the year. At least where I live.

And thanks, singlemom, for saying what I think about the whining. Sometimes those that whine the loudest….

By mommyto2

August 2, 2006 09:39 AM | Link to this

ok this really has nothing to do with this topic but did anyone see where the woman who CUT OFF part of her 6 year olds tongue got probation? there is something soooo wrong with our justice system when that can happen. and the article said the boys father didn’t think she was a threat and wanted her case to be dismissed! hello, why does he have custody of that kid? sounds like that poor little boys life is in danger from more than one parent. but aparently our justice system doesn’t care unless the kid gets killed.

sorry, that just really upset me.

By catlady

August 2, 2006 09:45 AM | Link to this

Richard, I must’ve missed something. When did giving gifts become NASTY? I guess it depends on the gift, like if you give your wife VD, that is a pretty nasty gift.

singlemom, I have been fortunate to have a few parents who will go the extra mile, like you. Last year, a lady at my church gave me $200 to spend on children I teach who might need a coat, shoes, or supplies. She did not have to do it—she has no children or grandchildren at our school—but she was moved to show kindness to others. She could’ve kept her money for herself, instead of being so NASTY!

By Richard

August 2, 2006 09:55 AM | Link to this

Yes, catlady, apparently you did miss something. singlemom came into the blog and started insulting every person who complained about the continued additional school costs being thrown at them. Her quotes “take a pill”, “big freaking deal”, “quit whining and grow up” and implying that we don’t support our children’s education (there are other ways to support your child’s education than blindly throwing money around).

She insulted - unprovoked - people who work for a living and don’t like being continually jerked around. Yes - how dare she. Trust me, calling her nasty was being nice. However, I see by your 9:33 comment that you are as self-centered and condemning as she is when you wrote “And thanks, singlemom, for saying what I think about the whining. Sometimes those that whine the loudest….”

Looking out for my family’s well-being and not wanting to just throw money around anytime someone asks for it - is NONE OF YOUR DAMN BUSINESS.

Get a clue.

By mommyto2

August 2, 2006 10:03 AM | Link to this

ok richard, single mom was a little harsh but she has a point in my eyes. i too give a little extra because i feel my family is blessed and an extra $10 to help a family who is not as blessed makes me feel good. but if it doesn’t do the same for you then don’t do it. and the comment about the police officer was a little out of line. yes they are paid for it but as a fireman’s wife i know what goes into those jobs.

having said all that, i agree that it gets pricey but even at my daughters private school we have a supply list, uniforms, and boosters plus tuition. plus we still pay property taxes that go to the public schools my kids don’t even attend. But that is our choice so we really don’t complain.

oh and the lottery money, going to free day care apparently. they now have state funded pre-k 3. that is crazy to me but then again i am paying tuition for pre-k 3 now. oh well!

By catlady

August 2, 2006 10:08 AM | Link to this

You are right, I missed the earlier post and upon reading it, I still don’t have the same understanding of it as you do.

You would be remiss in looking out for your family if you threw “money around anytime someone asks for it”. I suspect singlemom works for a living too, and like you, she puts her money where she values it, which is none of your or my *!#! business, as you put it.

I would also suggest you could look out for your family’s well-being in developing and modeling the ability to look at other viewpoints rather than resorting to name-calling and cursing in this public blog.

By Hmm

August 2, 2006 10:14 AM | Link to this

The directory’s good, in my experience. Kids make friends without even know their new friend’s NAME. But, if you can narrow it down to a class, or get them to at least ask their name, you can then look them up in the directory. I know that mine (at 12) is now at least finding out names, but he’s never asked for a phone number. We’ve never experienced any trouble as a result of the phone directory.

By mommyto2

August 2, 2006 10:33 AM | Link to this

hey richard one more thing. why did you attack singlemom for her comments but not Eileen for her very similar comments? like i said i can see both sides and agree with each of you on some points but i have noticed that you kind of picked on her. just a thought. thanks!

By Hmm

August 2, 2006 10:36 AM | Link to this

I would contribute to the things I felt were important for my family. Technology contribution - $10 per family - Yes (because my kid’s a geek and wants the pc lab to work) School supply contribution - $10 per child - Yes (especially with our Katrina evacuees from last year) School clinic contribution - $5 per family - No (my kid doesn’t visit) PTA membership - $5 per person - No (yep, you heard it, I find the PTA bit a waste of time. I’m very involved at the school w/out joining the PTA, thankyouverymuch). Student directory - $5 per family - Yes Instructional enhancement/enrichment - $10 per family - No (what does this even mean? I’d need more specifics on how money would be applied to my kid’s class.) Classroom activity/Party - $5 per child - No (they can ask for donations later, or you can offer them up. my kid’s school likes to pick and choose kids that are “good” and allowed to go to parties. What about those parents that pay and kids weren’t allowed because they were written up one time during the year for something minor? Second, my kid sometimes doesn’t want to go to the parties (in the heat).
Arts in education contribution - $5 per child - No (again, I’d need to know how it’s going to applied.) Accelerated reader - $3 per child - Yes (because my kid has requested many new titles to the AR choices over the years and we’re practically backup to the AR organizer at the school. So, iow, there’s a strong reading interest/connection there.)

Two other fees I commonly see: Sports & Athletics - No (because my kid’s a geek that doesn’t care about sports). Field Trips - No. (instead, i pay on per field trip basis). Agendas - No. They always say these are “required” but I’m going to disagree this year. I’m tired of spending the money on these and not have my kid use them. He uses pocket sized notebooks, no problem, but those big agenda spiral, nope. I say give the kids the flexibility to use the tools they want to use.

By singlemom

August 2, 2006 10:51 AM | Link to this

Thanks for all your kind remarks, and Richard, poor baby, obviously got up on the wrong side of town this a.m. I’m willing to bet he doesn’t give one cent to his kids’ school or education. I hope they don’t turn out mean and hateful like him.

By mommyto2

August 2, 2006 10:53 AM | Link to this

bud, based on your lovely crotchfruit comments i feel confidant in my assumption that you have no children and for that i want to say thank you. the world has enough jerks, they certainly don’t need your crotch to create anymore. by the way this is a parenting blog. if you aren’t a parent and you don’t like crotch fruit, why are you here?

By Richard

August 2, 2006 10:55 AM | Link to this

No singlemom - unlike you, I respect other people’s opinions. When you read other opinions you insult those people. And, again, how dare you question my devotion to my child and his education! My child is 10 and has always made perfect grades. He’s well adjusted and understands the benefits of other’s opinions and does not insult those people.

By Hmm

August 2, 2006 10:55 AM | Link to this

1)Their the ones playing the lotto most, so they do contribute

I love renting, I currently rent, and I’ve never purchased a lotto ticket. Seriously, never. I pay my way happily in this community, without owning a home. And, any landlord will tell you that the property taxes are passed on to the tenant. In other places, I had my rents raised once and lowered once due to politicial tax maneuvers in that county.

By Richard

August 2, 2006 11:10 AM | Link to this

mommyto2 - As far as I could tell, Eileen only made one unkind comment - “You people need to get a grip.” That was when commenting about the amount of taxes we pay (which is lots lower than other places). That was just a casual comment, not the repeatedly insulting comments by singlemom. That’s why I didn’t take it personal or feel the need to respond.

Hey - I certainly have no problem with others having opinions. I’m entitled to mine as are you. However - my issue comes in when someone wants to insult me and insinuate that my opinion is worthless. It may be worthless to someone else, but not to me and my family and singlemom chose to attack all those that think there’s a problem with continually forking over more money. catlady (at 10:08) stated that I should develop the ability to look at other viewpoints - I already have that ability, I just don’t appreciate being insulted for having my own viewpoint. (of course catlady said I resorted to name-calling and cursing while not acknowledging singlemom’s original insulting tirade. If she wants to make me out to be the bad guy, so be it) - sorry if this prints multiple times.

By mommyto2

August 2, 2006 11:15 AM | Link to this

i like what some one else posted. if you don’t like the voluntary fee’s then don’t pay them. like hmm said, pick the ones you agree with. some of them don’t make sense. i will need to look at those a little closer next year. thanks!

By mommyto2

August 2, 2006 11:29 AM | Link to this

like i said before, i agree with you on some points. Single mom did get worked up a chose to use insults to get her point across. all i am trying to point out is that based on what i have read, you do too. i am not trying to be the blog police. i am just calling them like i see them. i have also at times gotten frustrated to the point of name calling and it was brought to my attention, i apologized and moved on. what bothered me was the comment you made about the firemen. i read it to be a jabb at them or to show a lack of appreciation for what they do and with several friends and family members in that line of work i take great offense to anything of that nature. also, i did not read single moms comments to be and more insulting than Eileens (i personally wasn’t bothered by either of them).

By mommyto2

August 2, 2006 11:29 AM | Link to this

sorry i meant police men

By nwgadad

August 2, 2006 11:39 AM | Link to this

I am okay with providing the essentials that every child should supply such as paper, pencils, etc. However, we are asked to provide copy paper, floppy disks(for 1st grade), color copy paper, forks, spoons, plates, and the list goes on and on. On top of this, it is expected that a $25 voluntary fee be contributed at open house. For just two kids I paid 140 dollars on supplies alone and now they want an additional 50. Where is the money really going? Teachers shouldn’t have to provide it, the schools should. Gheesh!

By Richard

August 2, 2006 12:36 PM | Link to this

mommyto2, my comment about the policemen was that clearly singlemom wanted a pat on the back by even mentioning it here. By giving gifts to the policemen outside, she’s disrespecting the janitors, teachers, etc who assist her children as well (since she wants to brag about how wonderful she is and ties those gifts in with supporting her child’s education). That’s all. And, by the way, the Police are paid for what they do.

By the way, you like to be told to take a pill, quit whining and grow up, and have someone question your dedication to your child’s education? You said you weren’t bothered by her comments. You also said I did the same thing - but it was only in response to her. If someone slaps you and you slap them back, are you saying you’re just as guilty? I hardly think so.

By ly

August 2, 2006 12:48 PM | Link to this

agghhh…just spent another $80 for the scientific calculator on top of the $194 for general supplies (for 2). I didn’t think it was so bad at first, but my bank accounts knows it is :(

By AM

August 2, 2006 12:48 PM | Link to this

Hey single mom. I paid much more than $10 last year for my child more like $650 for sports, 50 for the year book should I go on. Go back to bossing your maid around and have another pipeload.

By Jmarsh

August 2, 2006 01:06 PM | Link to this

Property taxes are akin to those in Texas, but they don’t have an income tax. They are lower than many areas like Boston, DC, Chicago, etc., but don’t fool yourselves into thinking we have some sweet deal that we should all feel guilty about.

Apartment dwellers DO pay property taxes. Those are merely rolled into the rent, just like property taxes on supermarkets affect the price of a gallon of milk.

I seriously object to the typical education guilt trip levied: “But if your children are precious, you won’t mind paying/donating, etc.” That I can do without.

By alias

August 2, 2006 01:08 PM | Link to this

Hey Richard, the teachers are also paid for what they do too. Does that mean we shouldn’t support them either?

By mommyto2

August 2, 2006 01:42 PM | Link to this

ok richard, go back and re-read. i clearly stated that “yes they are paid…” i understand that not everyone shares my admiration for our public service people and like i said that is one of the few things that really ruffles my feathers. i understand that you may have not even meant it that way that is just the way i read it. the same way you read singlemom’s comments. how do you know she doesn’t give gifts to those people?

and, by the way, i was not offended by what she said. i heard take a chill pill used as an expression plenty of times growing up. you took it too personally. now, the questioning your dedication to your kids education was out of line, and i understand your defensiveness in that area. no one like to be told they don’t care for their childrens needs.

ps AM she said $10 extra dollars, not $10 total. so maybe she spent $73 instead of $63 and got a few extra boxes of crayons for a child who can’t afford them. god she’s a real b*** isn’t she. what sports does your kid play that costs $650?

my family and i are very blessed financially and i feel i should help out those who are not.it breaks my heart to think about children on the first day of school without the things the need because they can’t afford them and it breaks my heart to think about how their parents must feel knowing they couldn’t give their child everything. so i chose to spend the little bit of extra money to help out some one else. not because i want a pat onthe back but because it make me feel good! i am truely an aweful person aren’t i!

By singlemom

August 2, 2006 01:54 PM | Link to this

mommyto2 - Yes, we are awful people for giving from the heart. I too feel the same way about some child whose parents are unable to purchase the school supplies. I wonder if some of our “extras” are going to Richard’s kids????? That would make it even more rewarding……

By mommyto2

August 2, 2006 02:03 PM | Link to this

i was wondering the same thing but i didn’t want to say it. and even if they are it doesn’t matter to me. i am glad to help. kudos to you for pitching in even though you are a singlemom. if you read my past posts i have been there. my daughter’s bio dad died several months before i had her and i know how hard it is. i may be crazy but wasn’t richard one of the ones (along with singledad) who was attacking you over your push presents comments. i figured you surely had to be joking. keep an optimistic outlook on a crappy situation. i really try to do that too. i tried to defend you then.

By singlemom

August 2, 2006 02:14 PM | Link to this

mommyto2 A big Thank you. And yes it was Richard and singledad blasting me for push presents. But that’s ok, they mean nothing to me and we are all entitled to our opinions. Thank you for your support. I do appreciate it, you sound like a wonderful person. Kudos to you too!!!!! To give is better than to receive.

By lynn

August 2, 2006 02:38 PM | Link to this

Mommyto2 & singlemom, sounds like you both have a big heart and the world needs more of you. My daughter just started her first year of high school (which we all know is a big deal to them) as well as her first cousin whom she is very close to. I knew her family were having some financial problems since her mom told me how bad things were going. It broke my heart when I picked my niece up for a weekend last week and asked her if she had done her school shopping. She knew my daughter had purchased everything and was excited about the first day. When I asked my niece, she said no, she really didn’t want any new clothes since winter would be here soon & her mom had got her a few notebooks, but she really wasn’t looking forward to her first day at all. It broke my heart since I knew the real reason she wasn’t getting any new clothes. I got a few things for school for her (told my sis they were on clearance) but was unable to do anything toward the clothes due to sizing (she’s a little large for her age). Sis is too proud to ask for help but my heart is with that little girl. She would have been just excited as mine (i’m sure) if she had a closet full of new clothes. She’ll never get or forget that first day of high school, and it saddens me sooo much. I guess my point is, it’s hard for us to understand the one’s that HAVE to go without until we see it first hand. For all of you with kind hearts…keep it up. Payoff will come to you.

By singlemom

August 2, 2006 02:44 PM | Link to this

Lynn your post brought tears to my eyes. What a wonderful, loving Mommy and Aunt you are. We definately need more people like you!!! You too will be rewarded…. and thank you for the kind comments.

By lynn

August 2, 2006 03:08 PM | Link to this

Thanks singlemom, I just wish I knew somehow to get her some clothes without making her mom think of it as a handout. I tried to even loan them some money, but she said no, she had too many loans already. It’s not like they blow money, work just slowed down for her hubby who gets paid commission and things are getting worse everyday.

By JayD

August 2, 2006 03:19 PM | Link to this

Is it just me or is that only $58.00?

By mommyto2

August 2, 2006 03:28 PM | Link to this

you may get some cash together from a few other family members and buy her a gift card to a store like tj maxx or ross. a little goes a long way there, and leave it in an envelope with her name on it anonymously. like i said it doesn’t have to be much just a little something. bless your heart for doing something so sweet for your family. it is one of those things you never know what can happen. even a hundred dollars would get her several dresses and some other filler items to supliment her wardrobe and make her feel great. also look at goodwill. target sends all of their overstock stuff there. it is brand new and dirt cheap. it is hard for teens because of the peer pressure and they often resent their parents for it. i will pray for ya’ll! and thank you for your kind words!

By mommyto2

August 2, 2006 03:32 PM | Link to this

oh i had another idea. give her name out to some neighbor as a babysitter. that would be a great way for her to make a little money to buy some clothes with out being a charity. really just being there for her will go along way too.

By mommyto2

August 2, 2006 03:34 PM | Link to this

no it’s sixty three. the PTA is $5 each and she got 2. i had to think about it for a minute.

By lynn

August 2, 2006 03:46 PM | Link to this

That’s some good ideas. My daughter babysat all summer so she could upgrage to Abercrombie etc. for her clothes and got some cash back rewards from there & Kohl’s. I can just get a gift card & tell her those were our rewards from our shopping.

By penguinmom

August 2, 2006 03:48 PM | Link to this

lynn, I have a suggestion for you for getting clothes for your niece. Send a gift card to Target (or Walmart or Kohls) anonymously to her through the mail. You can even have someone else print the envelope address so that they won’t know it’s you. Having been in poor financial situations in the past couple of years, I know how heart warming it is to recieve an anonymous gift card in the mail, it always seems to come, just when you need it most.
She’ll get the joy of going shopping for free and you’ll get the joy of seeing her in her cool new clothes.

By penguinmom

August 2, 2006 03:51 PM | Link to this

Ah, great minds think alike. I just took too long typing. :-)

By lynn

August 2, 2006 04:24 PM | Link to this

LOL…thanks penguin mom, I just called my niece to tell her I had the some rewards cards I wouldn’t be using & you could tell she had excitement in her voice. I don’t know why I didn’t come up with something creative sooner. This blog just made me think a little harder. Thanks to everyone…even Richard :), cause he made me think about the bad side in people too.

By stayinvolved

August 2, 2006 04:27 PM | Link to this

At my sons private school last year they started a giving program and eliminated all the fundraisers. No pressure, just a mailer. This way instead of working super hard and wasting time for 40% the kids do no begging and the school gets 100%.

Have not been to a public school since I attended so I don’t know if this would work.

By lynn

August 2, 2006 04:38 PM | Link to this

LOL…thanks penguin mom, I just called my niece to tell her I had the some rewards cards I wouldn’t be using & you could tell she had excitement in her voice. I don’t know why I didn’t come up with something creative sooner. This blog just made me think a little harder. Thanks to everyone…even Richard :), cause he made me think about the bad side in people too.

By lynn

August 2, 2006 04:39 PM | Link to this

ooops…thought it didn’t go throught the first time.

By MrLiberty

August 2, 2006 04:41 PM | Link to this

Here’s voluntary for you…

My wife and I pay nearly $2000 a year for the worthless schools and we don’t even have kids. No, its not voluntary since the government shows up with the guns if you don’t pay (or at least with the tax lien).

Every single one of you parents needs to pony up anywhere from $5000 tp $7000 per child to reimburse the rest of society for the services that are being stolen for on your childs’ behalf. To even begin to complain about any additional “voluntary” costs you must incur during the school year only shows how completely disconnected you are to the property crimes that are being committed for you and your kids. None of you should be patting yourselves on the back until you actually are paying the real costs of your own children’s educations.

Its amazing. None of you would have the guts or the lack of morals to show up at my door with a gun demanding money to pay for your kids education, but you have no problem continuing to vote for someone who will use the power of government to achieve the same result.

Teresa, I can’t even believe that you have the nerve to ask this question without first questioning your own lack of morality in continuing to support a system that robs from one group to provide services to another group that certainly should be paying its own way.

Quit whining over a few bucks. By the time your kids leave for college you will have been the recipient of nearly $100,000 per child worth of stolen goods. But of course you chose to have those kids, so why should anyone make you have to be responsible for them? This is amerika after all.

By stayinvolved

August 2, 2006 04:47 PM | Link to this

Well said Mr Liberty

By MrLiberty

August 2, 2006 05:08 PM | Link to this

Boy, some of the comments from you folks make me wonder why everyone continues to behave like this country believes in capitalism. You are all nothing but a bunch of socialists.

Don’t get me wrong. I believe in helping out those less fortunate, but I also believe that people need to be responsible for the choices they make in life. Feel as bad as you want for the child that must show up for school without crayons, but what about the single veteran who can’t find an affordable place to live because the property (school mostly) taxes keep driving up the cost of rental housing? Yes, he chose to be a veteran, but the family chose to have children and the associated costs. Why should he have to pay for kids he doesn’t have?

Can you afford the kids you have? Really? What if you couldn’t steal from me and everyone else to educate them? Would you be prepared to pay? Would you at least be prepared to homeschool them like you should? Would the parents of the crayon-less kids have had them if THEY had to pay for school? What if instead of pampering them and letting them get away without paying for their kids society held their feet to the fire? Might they raise more responsible kids? Might their kids think about their actions before they happened?

Don’t worry, you have the votes to keep oppressing the minority, stealing from them, and using the spoils to benefit (if you actually want to call government schools that) your kids. Nothing will change. Just change the channel and forget about the 8th commandment. You probably only respect a couple of the others anyway.

By lynn

August 2, 2006 05:15 PM | Link to this

Mr. Liberty, one of those kids you paid (property) taxes to school is going to be operating on your run down body one day & you better hope he got a good education so he doesn’t miss with the scapel & accidently mistake your entire brain for the pea that’s growing on it now.

By MrLiberty

August 2, 2006 05:24 PM | Link to this

Unfortunately for all of us we will be faced with the future propect of doctors, dentists, and thousands of other professionals that we must all count on who were educated by the government school system. I wouldn’t have to “hope” he got a good education if his parents were actually paying for the education. I know that they would make sure he got one.

Hope is the eternal salvation for every parent with a child in the prison/education system in this country. You have no ownership of the education. You don’t control the money, you don’t control the teachers, you don’t control the curriculum, and all you can do is move into the best neighborhood you can afford and HOPE that this will be enough to insure a good education for your kids.

Too bad it won’t.

All I speak from is the truth and the accuracy of my economics is without dispute. I know it hurts to be called a dirty thief. Too bad. No other definition for the government school funding mechanism.

By faye

August 2, 2006 05:24 PM | Link to this

Mr. Liberty, were you or your wife educated in public schools? If so, I hope you put your money where your mouth is and repaid that debt.

Or is the money you are paying now repaying it? If that’s the case then I’ll repay my child’s debt when he’s done, and I continue to work and pay for another 40 years or so.

By MrLiberty

August 2, 2006 06:43 PM | Link to this

Both private school educated. And just what exactly would my mom now be paying for?My mom was a single mom working as a secretary. I got a scholarship that she paid back as she was able. So where does all of the excess end up? Wasted by the government again - big surprise.

The thief gets little sympathy after the theft no matter how much they claim they will pay the money back.

Stop trying to justify your support for this immoral system. You economics aren’t sound, and of little consolation to those who have been wronged.

By Ted

August 2, 2006 06:57 PM | Link to this

Why can’t we just pay for all these great services at the time we receive them? I think you all know the investment we make in most public school children is very low yield. Most of these children will never produce to the level we have invested in them.

By momof 3teens

August 2, 2006 07:32 PM | Link to this

lynn - You could call the school counselor. He/she will probably know of some way to help your sister and niece. I just know that what goes around, comes around. (Or is it the other way around? shrug.) When my children were little, I paid all the fees and bought extra supplies for the teachers. Then when my dh was unemployed for almost two years and I only brought home $770/month, all of that came back in ways that I hadn’t expected. The elementary and middle schools helped me with supplies, Christmas, and the power bill. A friend of my dd2 often loaned her lunch money (which I would scramble to repay ASAP). Then after dh finally found work again, that little girl’s father lost his job. I have told dd2 that her friend is to be given whatever amount she needs. I am truly amazed at the generosity that I have seen.

By Richard

August 3, 2006 07:39 AM | Link to this

lynn, in your 4:24 and 4:38 posts, you mention that I made you think about the bad side in people. Are you calling me bad? Why - because I didn’t sit around and let singlemom insult me? All I ever did was defend myself, my child and my opinion. You should be condemning her, not me.

If you think that makes me a bad person, I’d hate to see what you think is a good person.

By sson

August 3, 2006 08:22 AM | Link to this

Our PTA sent a lovely list of packaged “deals”. FOr $10 we can get a single membership and that is it. For $48 we can get a single parent memebership, dirctory, holiday fund, T shirt and special contribution. The “Family” packages have lots more choices. I am all for family values, but as a single mom, how about a membership, 1 contribution, and directory…oh, and you can keep the T-shirt!

By Mom in Fulton

August 3, 2006 08:25 AM | Link to this

I do not mind the activty fees…think they should be proportiante to the grade level. What I do mind is everyone tooting the Hope Funded Pre-K and I still pay $20/WEEK for food. I did the math that is $1600/month for the 2 pre K classes in our school….seriously, do 4-5 year olds EAT $1600/month? I pay $35/MONTH at the elementary school.

By mommyto2

August 3, 2006 09:16 AM | Link to this

mr liberty, said it before and i’ll say it again. no kids? then why are you on a parents blog. and ps my little angel is in private school yet i don’t complain about paying taxes that go to public school. so really i am paying for school twice. and as far as people who can’t “afford” to have children, god forbid one of these people may have lost a good job or might be going through a tough time financially because of an illness. did you ever think about that? and as for the people who have always had a low income, shall we just kill their children when they are born? please tell us what we should do. shall we do like china and let our government mandate how many children we can have? what your mom had was a loan not scholarship if she had to pay it back. and if you feel you are being robed move, to another county, state or even better country. thanks!

mom to3teens- you are so right about good deeds comming back to you (and bad but that’s another person). i always have good things happen to me when i do something good. i think it is awesome the way people lended a hand and even better that you are returning the favor! good luck and bless you

By rdd

August 3, 2006 09:22 AM | Link to this

Decaturparent for State Superintendent. We need your spunk!

By Angie

August 3, 2006 09:39 AM | Link to this

I get irked when I see these lists, and my kids aren’t even in public school. I feel like our family gets a double-whammy because we have no choice but to pay our super-high property taxes, while also shelling out money for private school tuition. I realize that’s our choice to pay for private school, but the more I learn about the public school system, the more I know I don’t want my kids there. It means that my family eats a lot of rice and beans to afford it all.

I went to public school, but it sure has changed since I was young. You never heard the high percentages of kids flunking out on standardized testing like you do these days. It’s scary how many people have no choice but to trust this system that is failing our kids.

I am a huge supporter of education vouchers that would allow me to reclaim at least some of my property tax expenditure for my own kids; and make it possible for more families to choose private education.

I think it’s ridiculous that so much of every state’s budget goes toward education, but parents are still asked to donate to the things above. I read that it costs the state over $6000 to educate an elementary school child for one year. It kills me that my kids get an excellent private education for less than that per year. If our school can do it, why can’t the state get its act together?

My heart goes out to every public school teacher out there who deals with the inept government mis-management of our public school system AND the undisciplined kids of today. I think you truly have the toughest job on the planet.

By alias

August 3, 2006 10:14 AM | Link to this

Angie You DO have a choice, you don’t have to live in a huge house, with a huge property tax bill. I have friends who sacrificed the big house for their kids to go to private school. It’s all just a matter of choice.

By angie

August 3, 2006 10:21 AM | Link to this

I would hardly call a 1650 sf house on a 3/4 acre lot huge. I’m just saying that it feels like we pay an enormous amount of property taxes and get little in return…nor does it seem that the kids in much in our government schools in return for the investment ALL homeowners make into the system.

By angie

August 3, 2006 10:23 AM | Link to this

That should say “Nor do our kids GET much in return….”

That’s what happens when I hit POST too quickly! :)

By angie

August 3, 2006 10:24 AM | Link to this

That should say “Nor do our kids GET much in return….”

That’s what happens when I hit POST too quickly! :)

By past50mom

August 3, 2006 10:35 AM | Link to this

Angie, I am wondering what is the huge amount of property taxes you pay. If I may ask, where do you live and how much do you pay, and do you know how much of your property taxes go to the schools?

By Yo!

August 3, 2006 10:38 AM | Link to this

Richard, Get over it already. :)

By SJ

August 3, 2006 12:54 PM | Link to this

I happily pay for all of my children’s supplies/fees/expenses, etc. I also restock their school supplies throughout the year. Up until last year I sent in every item on every list that came home (except candy, I refuse to provide candy). Last year, I spoke with both of my sons teachers at the beginning of the year and told them both, “let me know when you deplete the 60 boxes of tissues and 30 boxes of baby wipes you already have in your cabinet and I’ll be happy to provide more!” Now, I provide everything on the required list and I donate some extras for the classroom (pens, paper, pencils). The lists that come home requesting “extra donations” are ridiculous and haven’t been updated for years. (I really don’t understand the requests for dry erase markers — my parents didn’t have to provide chalk.) If the teachers took the time to actually look at what they need I’d be happy to send in the extras but, why are you asking 22 parents to provide you large packages of Sharpies each when you have a desk drawer full of them? I can speak to every item on the list in the same fashion. I’ve been a Room Mom for 5 years, the quantity of extras that have been in EVERY ONE of my children’s classes is insane and yet they continue to ask for more and more of the same things — USE UP WHAT YOU HAVE! I can’t believe they have the nerve to ask for more. Its the same exact teachers sending home the same exact requests year after year!!! Update the LIST, ask for what you REALLY NEED. I’d be happy to help! So, again this year, I will go in and speak with the teachers in a week or two and see what they really need. Another thing - every year, one or both of my children has shared a classroom with the child(ren) of a teacher at the school. These teachers don’t even bother to send in the contributions to cover the cost of THEIR child participating in the class parties and extras. I’m happy to help cover the costs of children where the family is truly struggling (and I’ve had at least one every year), I believe it takes a village……but I RESENT covering the cost of stupid parents that can well afford it and are just to lazy/ignorant/oblivious to take care of their own.

By will

August 3, 2006 02:39 PM | Link to this

SJ sounds like the parent all of my teacher friends age quickly over. Give what you feel is needed or dont give, but let the teachers run their classrooms or move to another district or move to a private school or home school or get a life.

By mommyto2

August 3, 2006 03:46 PM | Link to this

right on Will!

By catlady

August 3, 2006 03:54 PM | Link to this

Angie, one reason it costs so much for school systems to educate a child is that costs for special needs children (per child) are many, many times the average spent for average kids, but it all lumps in together. When you have a teacher and 3 aides for 3 kids, the cost per child is much higher than the cost for one teacher for 25-30 students.

By catlady

August 3, 2006 03:57 PM | Link to this

And I should have added, many private schools do not accept children with multiple handicapping conditions, or you’d pay a whole bunch more for private school than you do now. Also, private schools may not have the unfunded mandates that public schools have to pay.

By SJ

August 3, 2006 04:56 PM | Link to this

Will, and Mommyto2, maybe you should scroll back to the top, read what the topic is about and then re-read my post. I not only gave my input on some of the questions posed, I addressed how I originally donated everything that was requested, but why, I have since modified my contributions by my choice.

Why that makes me “the cause for teachers aging quickly or why I now need to get a life” - is baffling.

Until you’ve spent the countless hours volunteering that I have, don’t be so judgmental.

I love to help and have no issue contributing, I’m only stating the teachers need to look at what they have on hand before blindly sending home requests. I know for a FACT that they don’t do this so I actually speak with the teachers to find out what they really need. Gosh, your right, I’m horrendous! My kids teachers love me, they come to me asking for help regularly, often to take care of last minute things they forgot or that another parent dropped the ball on. And I get warm smiles and hugs from EVERY teacher my kids have ever had - every time I see them, let’s not forget the maragaritas pool side from time to time…

By mommyto2

August 3, 2006 05:09 PM | Link to this

sweet pea i do spend plenty of time volunteering at my daughters school but I personally don’t feel the need to ramble on about something so small. if you want to be a teacher and run a class, then go to college and get a degree and teach!

By SJ

August 3, 2006 05:24 PM | Link to this

Mommyto2, I’m pretty sure I know you…….your the PITA Mom that my teachers are always calling me B(*ing about.

By mommyto2

August 4, 2006 09:04 AM | Link to this

your teachers? that is exactly what i am talking about. they are your children’s teachers and they don’t need you to run their class room for them. i have a few friends and relatives who teach and they all complain about parents like you who have nothing better to do than meddle. they all love a little help but certainly don’t appreciate someone without a teaching degree telling them what to do! i was in school to get my teaching degree before i decided to go ahead and have kids. when they are both in school i will go back and get my degree.not to say that in any way make me an authority. I dread the day i have to deal with parents like you. everyone should take an active role in their children’s education and should volunteer as much as they can. but that does not mean you should undermind their teachers by treating them like children. going through and asking “what they really need” as though its some huge tissue black market trade conspiracy. now i can not speak for all teachers but i spoke to a few i know after reading this blog and they told me they do not expect every student to bring everything on the list. they said most people bring some or most of it, which is why it is so long. plus (they said) say there are 25 kids in a class, and 18 of them bring a box of tissues, in elementary school these kids go through a box in a week or two. 18 boxes doesn’t go very far! so if 16 bring crayons, some of those 16 may also bring glue and some won’t but if it all goes in together then it all washes out in the end. i do agree that asking for sharpie’s is out of line. that is their resposibilty. same goes for dry erasers. one i talked to said she asked for those things.

one more thing, PITA? what the heck is that?

By will

August 4, 2006 09:26 AM | Link to this

congrats SJ, you win the mommy competition, you are the greatest volunteer in the history of the school, you win, noone volunteers like you do. Volunteering should be a selfless act, or it means nothing, its not a competition. Dont volunteer so that you can tell everyone how much you volunteer, thats sick. volunteer if thats what you want to do, but dont do it and then expect that to give you the right to critique and second geuss your CHILDS teacher. BTW, Having lived in the south my entire life I know that hugs mean nothing, its the equivalent of “bless your heart”, which as we all know is code for “you dumb as*” And im sure thats a great visual for your kids, mom having margarittas with the teachers.

By mommyto2

August 4, 2006 10:56 AM | Link to this

will you are too funny! i say bless your heart and i do want to add mean it has dual meanings. while it often does mean “you idiot”, i usually use it as a “how sweet” or “poor thing”. i bet SJ’s kids will get beat up when they get older for being the teachers pet. thanks mom! if you would quit drinking a the teachers house the other kids wouldn’t laugh at me!

By Teacher's Kid

August 4, 2006 12:51 PM | Link to this

Bottom line folks: it is expensive to raise a child. If you are concerned about how much it costs to raise a child and are concerned that you would have difficulty making ends meet by having one (or more), please take all necessary precautions and don’t have them. If you decide to raise children, it is YOUR responsibility to provide them with what they need. For those of you who are about to start with the “it takes a village..” routine, don’t even start. My mom was a single mom back in the 1970s (when divorced single moms did not have many of the conveniences provided today) and made darn sure we had the basics by keeping her priorities straight—i.e., the kids’ NEEDS (not wants) come first, then the parent’s. No, my brother and I didn’t have fancy designer clothes and shoes (we wore a lot of hand-me-downs), but we had school supplies and a lunch and a sense of pride and an appreciation for nice things when we earned them later in life.

Regarding kids forgetting their school supplies, here’s an idea that my high school math teacher (God bless Ms. Bush!) used: if you forgot your pencil, you could ask her for one (it was unsharpened), but if you sharpened it you had to pay her 10 cents. This taught 2 things: 1. you are responsible for making sure you are prepared when you come to class and 2. you are not owed anything. Food for thought.

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August 10, 2006 12:49 AM | Link to this

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