MOMania

By Sabrina

July 21, 2006 02:17 PM | Link to this

Theresa,

I’m going to have to disagree with you. I am the mother of an 11 year old and I can’t stand environments where kids are out of control. My daughter is expected to behave quietly, when in public settings and I expect the same from the other children. Just because you are at the pool, mall or McDonalds, does not mean your child should talk loudly, scream and run around like idiots.

No one, should have to put up with excess loud noise, running and screaming in public.

I’m taking my daughter to Six Flags next weekend and she is expected to talk normally, DO NOT Run, shove/push - laughing is allowed - but not at an annoying level. It’s just an act of having respect for yourself and others, plain and simple.

By Mom

July 21, 2006 02:17 PM | Link to this

No, parents shouldn’t discipline their children to “make others comfortable”…they should do it so that their child learns the meaning of respect for others. I agree with some of what you are saying, but disagree with a lot of it. (Yes, I’m the mother of 2, and grandmother of a 3 year old.) If it isn’t the parent’s responsibility to discipline their child, then I’ll make sure that kid knows (from ME) that what he/she is doing is NOT acceptable…depending, of course, on the age of the child. If a baby is crying, that is to be expected…but when a 4-5 y.o. or older is flinging a fit, then it’s up to the parent to remove the child from the setting and lay down the law.

By John Oram

July 21, 2006 02:24 PM | Link to this

I’m tired of putting up with other people’s children. Just because you made the choice to further overpopulate an already overpopulated planet, why should I endure the shrieks and antics of the little animals you spawned? It’s more than enough that I pay taxes for their schooling, etcetera. If you’re too lazy and irresponsible to control the children you created and teach them decorum and self-control, don’t have them. Oh wait… if you knew anything about self-control, you wouldn’t have reproduced.

By Granny

July 21, 2006 02:24 PM | Link to this

There are very few places that are child-oriented, such a Chuck E. Cheese, McDonalds’s, etc., so if a child is enjoying themselves and not endangering anyone at these places, then I laugh along with them…whether they are mine or not. Any place that has a clown as spokesperson, offers children’s meals with toys, has a playground, etc., then expect that there will be boisterous kids enjoying it. HOWEVER…on the other hand, if I am at an expensive restaurant trying to enjoy a meal, and your kid is running around, bothering other patrons, then that is the time to either discipline them or remove them. Some parents think it’s “cute” when their 2 year old walks up to another table and bothers diners, “talking” to them. Maybe it’s “cute” to the parents, but some of us would prefer to eat in peace. I’ll talk to your child when and if he/she is INVITED to talk to me. Until then, please do not impose on others.

By Jason

July 21, 2006 02:49 PM | Link to this

I really don’t care what theory of parenting one subscribes to as long as your child doesn’t affect me. Unfortunately, they do.

If a place is full of screaming children, I don’t go there anymore. I don’t even bother complaining to the manager. Businesses are going to have to decide which group is more important to them. That doesn’t mean they should all cater to those without children. It just means they need to know who their target customers are.

Chuck E. Cheese would be foolish to try to make it a quiet peaceful place. On the other hand, if my dinner at Morton’s is disturbed by screaming children, I’m not going back. Some places, such as The Vortex, have banned children. Even though it isn’t high end dining, I’d much rather eat there than put up with screaming children elsewhere.

Since there are too many in the child bearing community who want everyone else to accomidate their child’s poor behavior, I think we will see more businesses forced to choose which group they cater to. It would be nice if they could do both, but with today’s manners, that just isn’t a possibility.

Sadly, the real losers in all of this are the parent who do have well behaved children but have to pay the price for the lax parenting of others.

By Reeves Cantwalk

July 21, 2006 02:51 PM | Link to this

You are the people we hate. The people who think that kids are so great and everyone should love them. Garbage. Kids are smelly, loud and stupid. Yes, I was a kid once and I was a jerk and am embarrassed I acted that way. If my parents had any sense that would have locked me in the basement.

Keep your stupid kid out of my way and we’ll be OK. If I am trying to eat a nice meal and your little monkey comes and bothers me I will stab it with a fork.

By Swangirl

July 21, 2006 03:02 PM | Link to this

Theresa, I get what you’re saying. And on most levels, I agree with you. We don’t live in a Victorian society in which children were thought to be “little adults” who were to be seen and not heard. I would never want a return to that.

However, I do disagree this comment: I assume when I fly, and in most other situations, that parents are doing their very best to control their children. I give the parents the benefit of the doubt and my sympathy.

I’m sorry to say it but there is a real segment (note, I did not say most or all) of the parent population that will NOT do their best to control their children. They let them act out and misbehave. I don’t mean laughing or looking around. Or having fun in the pool. I mean screaming at length and being destructive.

I’m not talking about an infant that has gas and is cranky, with a mother trying to soothe him. That kind of thing is going to happen and it does. I’m talking about a four-year-old child whose parents let him run all over a restaurant, knocking down chairs and screaming.

If I see that a parent is making an attempt to calm their child down or take them out, then I give them the benefit of the doubt. They are trying to remedy the situation and I do sympathize wiht that. Unfortunately, some parents just sit there like rocks while chaos ensues.

Truth be told, these days many parents have their kids out WAY past their bedtimes (past 10 p.m.) in Wal-Mart or a restaurant or a movie theater. That’s when I place the blame on the parents. If the kid is overtired and should have been in bed hours ago, the parents need to make some changes in their schedule.

One thing I don’t understand are parents who take toddlers to art museum exhibits. Why put a child whose attention span is small through that? And yet, I saw this at the Whistler exhibit at the High. I felt so bad for the little boy I saw who clearly wished to be elsewhere and got shushed over and over by his folks.

Teaching patience is important but in small doses, not an hour-long stint in an art museum. Older children can handle it better. It’s not fair to the toddler or the adults who came to see the exhibit without their toddlers.

By Will

July 21, 2006 03:14 PM | Link to this

Kids will be kids. You go to Disney World you expect kids to be loud, etc. However after 9pm kids shouldn’t be running loose around a hotel, watching a children’s show in the hotel bar or screaming in the hotel hallway. As for a plane ride with a screaming baby…that’s what headphones are for. Babies are babies. However a child over the age of 5 should know when to be quiet. I’ve shhh’d a few kids in my day (at the store, on a plane) when the parents are being oblivious to their antics. If the parents say anything to me I tell them to be parents and control their children. We live in a society…try and make it pleasant for others.

By catlady

July 21, 2006 03:47 PM | Link to this

If your child is causing a disturbance (CLUE: others are staring at you and him) you should remove your child from the situation. Period. Notice that at McDonalds, people don’t stare at children laughing and running on the playground. Running through the eating area, however, probably will get stares. If you see that, it is a SIGN.

By cgatlanta

July 21, 2006 04:04 PM | Link to this

Theresa,

I’ve got another one for you.

You say, “it isn’t the responsibility of parents to make shopping trips, restaurant meals or plane rides as quiet as possible.”

I say, whose job is it? Do you really think it is not your resonsibility to disciple your children…in a restaurant? on an airplane?

You don’t correct your child when he asks a friend about their private parts, and you don’t tell you children to hush in a restaurant. Please don’t move to Kennesaw.

By abc

July 21, 2006 04:14 PM | Link to this

Theresa - if it’s not your responsibility to make shopping trips, restaurant meals, etc. as quiet as possible - would you mind if I did it for you?

I would gladly admonish your childrens’ horrid behavior, but, don’t get angry with me because I have to do YOUR job!

When I ask your kids to please stop kicking my booth, or to stop running back and forth in the restaurant - don’t say one word to me!

If you did your job, I wouldn’t have to do it for you!

By LB

July 21, 2006 04:17 PM | Link to this

I have nothing left to say. The previous posts say it all. After 9:00 at a hotel it should be lights out for all kids. I despise Walmart because it seems to be a place where large groups family groups congregate. They huddle together and no one can get what they need on that aisle. Why can’t one of the adults keep the kids at home. What gets my goat most of all is grocery shopping, mall shopping or errand running during school hours during non holidays fall through spring and there are school age childern running around. They obviously aren’t sick. Where is the old truent officer? If kids are behaved it is different but so many adults have taken a don’t give a flip attitude about their own kids it’s no wonder the school system is falling apart and companies aren’t operating at their fullest potential anymore. People want something for nothing.

By smf

July 21, 2006 04:27 PM | Link to this

Theresa,

I think that you feel that everyone raises their families the way you do, attempting to minimize the interruptions, etc. I believe that the other posters are pointing out that is not the case.

You realize that there are some places appropriate for children and some places that aren’t. Other parents have trouble distinguishing between these places.

Trust me, I’m anti-rude, not anti-children. I’m as bothered by the loud cellphone talker as I am parents of misbehaving children.

By catlady

July 21, 2006 04:28 PM | Link to this

Teresa, it IS your job to be sure my bad experience in the restaurant, airplane, etc, is not because of your children, or you!

By old tex

July 21, 2006 04:45 PM | Link to this

I only want to say one thing. Most churches have cry rooms for a reason. If you can’t, won’t or don’t make your child behave anywhere else, please make them behave in church. Thank you.

By GaBoy

July 21, 2006 04:46 PM | Link to this

I’m just thankful I don’t live in the Atlanta area where I would have to put up with you and your misbehaving kids. And yes, a mother (or father) should stop what they are doing and take the child out of the area or put an end to the aberrant behavior.

By tbflowers

July 21, 2006 04:50 PM | Link to this

I make it a point of not letting my children cross certain boundaries. Like playing games (running up and down the aisle - hideNseek) on an airplane, talking loud in a restaurant, not sittng down in a restaurant, running indoors, touching things that don’t belong to them, quiet indoors. I also teach them that stores are not playgrounds, you don’t just pick things up off the shelf in a store, etc.

That often means that I have to be with my children. Too many of my peers let their kids run free, unsupervised, free to cause mischief and annoy others. I’m by no means saying that we should strictly regiment their lives, but we should be within earshot and visual range of our children so that we can step in when necessary to keep them from causing problems. Many of my peers like to ignore their children and hope that they aren’t disturbing anyone else.

And God forbid I ask a inattentive parent to reign their kids in.

By Richard

July 21, 2006 04:55 PM | Link to this

I’m glad to see you’re being taken to task by almost every reply, because your premise is so wrong-headed as to be laughable. It absolutely IS your responsibility as a parent to keep your rug-rats reasonably quiet and well-behaved in public. Your implication that ill-behaved children are all, by and large, a bunch of misunderstood angels is very revealing. It’s a very disingenuous idea, to a sickening degree. Most of these kids are WAY more cognizant than you’re willing to understand. They’re not ‘misunderstood angels’, generally speaking. They’re willful, spoiled BRATS, and parents with your permissive attitude are the root cause.

I was a kid once, too, and I haven’t forgotten what it was like to be filled with energy and curiosity (in fact, I still am that way, to a large degree). But kids need to start learning self-control and respect for others at an early age, and my parents made sure my siblings and I did. Don’t tell me it can’t be done, I know better.

You have a lot of audacity and arrogance to criticize those who are disturbed by ill-behaved little monsters. Before you take your kids out in public, teach them how to behave in public. Don’t expect me to put up with them because of your lack of parenting skills, or your inclination not to care about how their behavior affects and disturbs others.

By will

July 21, 2006 04:55 PM | Link to this

That is easily the most disjointed article I have ever read. I have read it twice and have no idea the point or the subject. It’s manic! who actually wrote it? The author of the blog or the people she references? What is the AJC’s criteria for hiring writers, I have some spare time these days.

By BeAParent

July 21, 2006 04:56 PM | Link to this

and it isn’t the responsibility of parents to make shopping trips, restaurant meals or plane rides as quiet as possible.

Oh, how wrong you are, lady. It is very much your responsibility to control your own AND your puppies’ behavior when they are in an adult environment.

There are places (Chuck E. Cheese, park playgrounds, and sadly, yes, public pools) that can be considered a “child friendly/child encouraged” environment. But a nice restaurant, a museum, or the hot tub corner and sauna at a decent hotel? Not even close. Keep your kids quiet, and keep them out of my hair.

Oh, and here’s another thing. Even in those child-friendly environments such as public pools: YOUR CHILDREN ARE YOUR RESPONSIBILITY. Do not bury your nose in a book and let your child run wild, glancing up only to reassure yourself that some adult happens to be within twenty feet. It is not my task to watch over your children, nor is it my task to entertain them. It is yours. I will not complain about the noise or splashing, but I WILL complain when your child feels the need to pester me directly because they are bored and you won’t pay attention to them.

This is about RESPECT FOR OTHERS and COURTESY FOR OTHERS, and you are demonstrating that you have none of either.

By Lillee

July 21, 2006 04:57 PM | Link to this

Sorry, I agree with John Oram & Reeves C. I loathe kids. It’s a preference. Maybe YOU loathe snakes?? I’m not about to judge you for that, so why judge me & why should I deprive myself of going someplace enjoyable just because a bunch of selfish breeders have to populate this already overcrowded planet with their loud, rude, smelly brats? Newsflash: Your little monkeys are NOT “cute!”

By E. Lewis

July 21, 2006 04:57 PM | Link to this

I have no children, but my sister does. The problem I have with loud, frantic and/or misbehaving children is situational. I expect children to be talking and moving around when I am at McDonald’s, the park or taking my niece to see some animated flick. It’s a different matter when I am at a late night, adult themed PG-13 or rate R film, on an airplane, in a library, a fine arts museum or a fancy restaurant. Out of control kids at Wal-Mart are to be tolerated, not so at Williams Sonoma.

I won’t complain about your children when I am at Chuck E Cheese if you promise to find a babysitter for the next installment of James Bond or at least keep them under control the next time Van Gough come to town.

By Nicole

July 21, 2006 04:57 PM | Link to this

What saddens me about the response from so many in this article is that we have forgotten that at some point in our lives we were children…no wait, we just appeared out of the thin blue sky and were immediately an adult. As the mother of two children, I must say there are times when in public my boys get unruly, but not so to the point that it becomes annoying to others…as a matter of fact, I have had many adults compliment me on how well behaved my boys are (I guess because they are boys they are expected to be out of control). Nevertheless, for people like John Oram and others who think that children are simply “animals” that were born to such inconsiderate people as myself who decided to continuously overpopulate this already overpopulated world, seem to forget that at some point in his life he was in the “animal” category…and we are so sorry to make your life so miserable. However the fact of the matter is, children are just that children, and I don’t expect my boys to act like anything more than a child. I want them to enjoy their childhood, even if that means going to the pool, Six Flags or other public places and running and laughing and having fun! Grow up and stop being selfish…it is very selfish of an adult if they expect a child to make their life “comfortable” simply because they are seemingly unhappy with where they are in their lives.

By Monk

July 21, 2006 04:58 PM | Link to this

WTF are you people talking about. This wasn’t about those few kids who are out of control and the parents do nothing about. This article is about the people who despise kids like the majority of people posting comments. Kids will be kids and in 90% of situations that is fine with me. I expect kids to be loud while at the mall. I expect kids to be loud in a pool especially at a hotel. I am positive that the majority of posters were much worse then the avg kid. If your such a shrew to not appreciate a childs laugh I hope you fall down and cease to breathing. And the saying “only stupid people are breading” Is b******. You tend to only notice those which is a small percentage. Peace out you damn baby haters.

By catlady

July 21, 2006 05:12 PM | Link to this

My parents must have raised me pretty strictly. I guess that is why I have some expectations of civil, thoughtful behavior of other adults and their children. Children, and their parents, can be taught that there are places that are appropriate for play, etc, and there are places that are not. I had the refreshing experience of a restaurant manager who asked a family to leave. He received many compliments. Many managers will just allow you to suffer as you waste your $50 there. No more for me. I leave, and tell the staff why. Of course, I am a teacher as well as parent so perhaps that is why I am a “baby hater.”

By catlady

July 21, 2006 05:19 PM | Link to this

P.S. My children, personal and professional, adore me. They know I am understanding but have high expectations for them, and they rise to meet them. My “professional” children are all low SES, but they know I treat them as capable people worthy of respect.

So saying, there ARE people who dislike all children. Thank goodness, they try to avoid them when they can.

By amused parent

July 21, 2006 05:26 PM | Link to this

To all of you who obviously hate kids just because they are not boring adults, all I can say is it’s such a shame your stupid parents chose to overpopulate the planet with the likes of you!

Just think, if we all felt like you, there would be no one to take care of you in your old age (if you make it there), because there would be no one to come after you. All the money in the world won’t change your Depends diaper when you soil it, or feed you when you are too old to remember to eat.

How pathetic your lives must be to have such a narrow view of how the world should be. Lillee, you and Mr. Oram should be particularly grateful that your parents didn’t know how to practice birth control. They surely did not purposefully choose to bring sour souls like you two into the world. Who says you’re not the irritating ones in the lot?

Take a pill already!

By linda smith

July 21, 2006 05:27 PM | Link to this

i work at walmart and see first hand the way some children act and it just makes me sick that the parents allow it and dont do anything about it. if i did some of the things ive seen kids do in the store my mother would have smacked my backside more than once and not care who saw it. there was a kid who spit on his mom in my line and she just smiled and said hes acting out today…acting out…oh my gosh…if he had been my child he would have gotten a pop on the leg or backside right then with no questions ask. i got my share of spanking and i dont consider myself to have been abused in any shape form or fashion. parents today that dont control their children with some discipline are only asking for trouble later on in life…have fun visiting them in jail.

By GaBoy

July 21, 2006 05:28 PM | Link to this

Monk, you apparently have no children and from your comments it is a matter of public interest that you should never intertain the thought of procreation. Heaven forbid you raised a child with your vocabulary. You are a living example of why some people hate children. I have 2 children and 3 grandchildren and they all were and are expected to behave when they are in public. It is simple respect for other people who are intitled to their opinions and to reasonable peace and quiet in a public place.

By Bill

July 21, 2006 05:57 PM | Link to this

Theresa should be flogged along with the parents of the out of control rug rats…

By Malynda Wood

July 21, 2006 06:02 PM | Link to this

Parents today want to have it all. They do not want to be inconvenienced with having to find a baby sitter to be able to do the things that they want to do. Is it too much to expect small children to be quiet when in restaurants, maybe. My mother has a rule of thumb, if the child cannot sit appropriately at the dinner table until they are excused, they do not need to be in a restaurant. If the child cannot follow directions then they do not get to go to the store. I can remember the one and only time I ever had a temper tantrum in a store. My mother picked me up and took me home. Once my father got home she went back to the store and did her shopping. Did it inconvenience her? Oh yes. But she made the decision to have children, so she was the one who should be inconvenienced. I did not get to go shopping with her again for nearly two years.

Remember, our right to anything only extends as far as it does not infringe on the rights of others. That is not hating anyone. That is learning to live together as a society.

By Mr. Amusement

July 21, 2006 06:25 PM | Link to this

Since parents are responsible for the acts of their children, it’s the parents’ responsibility to see to it that their kids act in a manner appropriate to where their parents take them. There are places where courtesy demands that children not be taken there if there is even a chance they will start to act up (weddings, funerals, most movies, expensive restaurants). There are places where it’s OK for kids to be loud and boisterous ( not the same as being out of control), like the playground, restaurants that cater to kids, picnics, public pools, etc. Most public places IMO fall into a middle ground- people still have a right and an expectation that they won’t be disturbed by loud noises or unwanted distractions like those that result from misbehaving/cranky children, but it’s not the end of the world if a kid misbehaves as long as the parent acts promptly to minimize the disruption. If the child does start to act up, I think you have to give the parent a chance to deal with it, but they must deal with it. Both aspects of that are just common courtesy. This may mean taking the child outside, distracting the child with a toy or food, or packing up dinner in doggie bags and calling it a night. Contrary to the implication in the original post, just because a restaurant is in a mall doesn’t mean it’s the equivalent of Chuckie Cheese-most mall restaurants fall in the middle category and parents still have an obligation to see to it that their children aren’t acting up and do something about it if they start to.

A lot of the horror stories people recite about kids in public places are the results of parents who just feel like they’re entitled to take their kid anywhere and stay as long as they want no matter what the kid does while he’s there. This is just rude and enormously self-centered.

I was in Murphy’s restaurant in Va-Highlands eating dinner at the counter once when a woman began leading a toddler from the restaurant towards the restroom, which at the time was next to the counter. The people eating at the counter were treated to the lovely experience of seeing/hearing the little girl throw up twice before making it to the bathroom. It was obvious she had been given Pepto-Bismol earlier. In other words, her parents knew she had an upset stomach before they came to the restaurant with her, they just didn’t care what might happen and how unpleasant it might be for other diners if it did. I felt sorry for the little girl and simultaneously wished that the manager had taken both parents out back and b***-slapped the selfish gits silly.

By BB

July 21, 2006 06:33 PM | Link to this

Unscientific, but the comments here seem to refute your opinion….and as a father who has been there and still is there, I think you are mostly wrong. While I agree there are some over zealous child haters looking to complain at anything, most of my observations are that children in public are not well behaved and their parents are to blame. You can see it in restaurants as the moms babble on to each other while their kids scream and run around. Occassionally the mom will pause to look around or take a fork out of the kids hand, but otherwise lets them act as if they were in their backyard. I’m sorry to tell you but you are part of the problem.

By Robert

July 21, 2006 06:50 PM | Link to this

The problem is that (some) parents dont’ want to parent and let their kids run wide. This lack of parenting means that other adults suffer the rude and loud behavior of other people’s brats.

Did my mom tell me to be quiet in a grocery store, to not run, to stay with her, and so on? Of course she did! Should other adults suffer through brats running up and down the isles, playing football with paper towels, and yelling at each other? Heck no!

At parks, pools, or other public or partly-public places, I do feel that it is for everyone to enjoy. However, this means that single adults should be able to enjoy it as well - and without rude and loud brats that have not been parented to ruin it. What is wrong with “adult swim” or even having an “adult” part of the pool roped off? Should brats have the run of everything?

By decaturparent

July 21, 2006 06:51 PM | Link to this

To the guy complaining that he had to pay taxes to school my “spawn.” Just remember that my spawn will be paying for your retirement and your prescriptions one day, so you had better darned well hope that they get a good education so they can make enough to be taxed in the first place.

I would imagine that with your attitude.. you are of the age that I am already paying for your retirment - once you are done sucking up all that money.. I don’t expect to see a red cent when I retire. As a matter of fact, I seriously doubt that my children will even have a planet to live on once you and your ilk are done destroying it.

BTW.. my kids are always well behaved in public.. not perfect .. but well above average for their ages. If they are not.. they get to go sit in the car until they can get ahold of themselves. Works like a charm.

By anne

July 21, 2006 07:03 PM | Link to this

A hotel pool is for ALL guests to enjoy, not just children. I DO “shush” my children when they are screaming or shouting at a hotel pool. All of those who are at the pool are paying hotel guests and deserving of basic respect and courtesy. Poorly mannered children and their completely oblivious parents are annoying, insensititve and boorish. It is they who need to “grow up.”

By Sarah

July 21, 2006 07:10 PM | Link to this

Hey decaturparent! You and your spawn are doing quite a good job of destroying the planet as well.

Go look up the statistics of how much waste consisting of disposable diapers is dumped into landfills per year… and are you teaching your children to save energy? To recycle? Do they eat processed foods and play with plastic toys?

Newsflash: We are ALL destroying the planet. Try not being so arrogant.

Also? If you’re worried that your children won’t have a planet to live on when they grow up, perhaps you should have taken that into account before you HAD any.

By Rob

July 21, 2006 07:32 PM | Link to this

It may not be up to the parents to make everyone’s experiences in public enjoyable, but it sure as hell IS their responsibility to ensure that their children are acting like human beings and not animals. Children in public are fine. Children being children are fine. Children acting like feral wolves while their exhausted parents stand by doing nothing are not acceptable. Yes, we were all children, and no one expects kids to just know how to behave properly. That’s why they have parents. If the parents don’t take action NOW to teach their children how to act, we’re going to have an entire planet full of obnoxious, annoying, whining, spoiled brats in 20 years.

YOU chose to have the child. YOU chose to take it out in public. It is YOUR responsibility to control it. I have no idea why that’s difficult for parents to understand. I’m sure it’s exhausting to be a parent. But, frankly, that’s your problem. Please don’t make it everyone else’s.

By Shannon, M.Div.

July 21, 2006 07:40 PM | Link to this

Theresa, after reading your blog, I went back and read the AJC article. I think you completely misrepresented Jane Kitson. Nothing in the article said that she was upset with the children for being loud in the pool when she pulled in; rather, seeing that many children made her wince because she (correctly) assessed the situation, knowing that they would be loud in the hotel later (at 9:15).

I’m childfree by choice, 31 years old, happily married. I was one of the letter writers a month ago taking to task the guest editorialist who was upset that she’d been evicted from a restaurant due to a screaming toddler. This topic is important to me.

Today, in chapel, I saw a service led by children. It was beautiful and touching, as children served the communion elements, offered music, and dramatically staged the gospel reading. The children leading the service provided a lovely and theologically appropriate moment with some warm humor (to be expected when children are involved).

However… I agree with the majority of posters on here. Taking small children and screaming babies on flights should be minimized; I think some parents become so used to the screaming that they don’t realize the rest of us get a literal tension headache from the obnoxious sound. Absolutely children should rarely be taken to nice restaurants. I disagree that children shouldn’t be taken to the museum; I remember attending the occasional museum exhibit with my mother and being awed. However, if an adult take a child to the museum, it should be a child-focused experience (and screaming/running amok should not be tolerated). If the adult wants to see the museum as an adult, then the children need to be left at home.

I just don’t have a lot of sympathy for parents who force me to get a headache. It’s really that simple. Children are a gift from God, they are the future, etc. (although I dispute the thought that they’ll necessarily be paying for my retirement—I’m planning to do that myself). The problem isn’t that we are returning to a Victorian Age where children should be rarely seen and never heard. I believe that the problem is that we’re in a Youth-centric age. We do the children in our community no favors by allowing them to think that their whims are laws and the world revolves around their desires (and I say this as an only child and only grandchild myself!). Instead, children should stay to kid-friendly milieus while they are very young, and then, as they age, they can be brought into the wider world with the gradual understanding and acceptance of the truth that the wider world does not want to see or hear their antics any more than it does those of an adult. This will make good citizens.

By balance

July 21, 2006 07:44 PM | Link to this

The main issue seems to be discipline. This country has gone away from instilling the respect of parents into children. In general, the kids today expect everything to be handed to them. I do commend the parents who take the time to teach the right and wrong ways of doing things. Kids should be kids, but only in the proper places, not a fancy restaurant.

By Katie

July 21, 2006 08:15 PM | Link to this

First off, I’m not intolerant of children. I’m intolerant of bad behavior.

“Should the mother immediately stop what she is doing every time her child cries and give in to tantrums?”

I don’t know exactly what you would consider ‘giving in to tantrums’? Acknowledging your child, period? Maybe this is another “When I was younger, My Mom…” comment, but my Mother would give me a spanking if I threw a fit. Soon I learned self-control, and with self-control, my Mom would take me places with her (which I loved doing).

This may seem like an inconvenience, but I’m tired of people trying to make parenting easy, when it’s not supposed to be. This article is just enforcing every lazy parent out there, and it gives a bad name to the decent parents who are actually busting their butts to teach their children respect for themselves and others.

By Arlington

July 24, 2006 06:34 AM | Link to this

Children laughing and crying is normal kid behavior, but a child having a temper tantrum in public is a reflection of a parent that has lost control.

By teach overseas

July 24, 2006 06:55 AM | Link to this

This past week-end I went to the Highlands Arts and Crafts fair. My husband and I first giggled at the first signs we saw such as:

” unsupervised children will be given a puppy”

and

“unsupervised children will be traded for donuts”

and

“we hope you like the item your unsupervised child has broken, as you will be paying for it”

Then, it made me think that most of those vendors had had an unpleasant experience with wild and uncontrolled children. Sad.

By Timely Subject

July 24, 2006 07:23 AM | Link to this

Hi Theresa,

I typically get a kick out of your articles and I found this one to be very timely. I was traveling yesterday from Portland, Maine back home to Atlanta and while I was sitting around in the Portland airport, there were many children and for the most part they were being pretty tolerant of the waiting around. But I observed for the two hours I was sitting there, two little boys 5 and maybe 2 years old playing tag, knocking bags over, running behind counters, running through the busy passenger walk way, having a great time, while their dad watched them in absolute delight that they were having so much fun. Then it happened…the 2 year old tripped and fell and hit his head on a column. To say the least, the father was no longer delighted but frantic and missed the flight because he had to get medical attention for his son…but hey the little boy did have fun. The moral of this story is that parents like so many people have already said are responsible for the actions of their children and just need to use some common sense.

By mom3boys

July 24, 2006 07:31 AM | Link to this

This past weekend at a tennis match I watched as the parents of a 4 year old ignored his disgusting behavior. He kept going to the food table, grabbing bananas, and after tossing them around a bit, opened them and then proceeded to finger paint with them on the concrete. I saw his mom clean some of it up, but I never heard her say “no.” He repeated this stunt three times, always looking to mom and dad to see if they’d say anything (they didn’t).

Parents: IT’S OK TO TELL YOUR CHILDREN “NO.” THEY PROBABLY WON’T HATE YOU, BUT IF THEY DO, THEY’LL GET OVER IT.

It’s not our job to be their friends, but to be their parents. I tell mine all the time that I hope they’ll like me, but if not it doesn’t matter because I have friends my own age.

We are not raising our children so that WE enjoy them—we’ll enjoy them no matter what, as they are ours. We are to raise them so that other people (i.e. those not related to them) can enjoy them, or at the very least, tolerate being in the same space as them. Come on everyone, let’s stop being so self-absorbed, and think about each other for a change…some of the kids today are monsters allowed to do anything they want…all they really want are some parameters. Tell them NO…they’ll love you for it in the long run.

By Darryl

July 24, 2006 08:06 AM | Link to this

My comment on this subject is that the parent should have total control of their children when the misbehave in public places. Out of the respect of other patrons, if the child is uncomfortable or irribable, they need to be removed from the public locale so that the others can enjoy their activities.

I’m not saying that children should not be in public and/or adult places, but its the parent’s responsibility to control their children’s actions and reactions out of respect to others.

By Aquagirl

July 24, 2006 08:08 AM | Link to this

No doubt Ms. Giarrusso will dismiss the preceding 40+ comments as “those people who leave the house looking to judge parents.” So will the legions of lazy, self-centered parents who can’t be bothered to A) do something/go someplace child friendly, or B) control their children in normal, everyday situations. What bugs me is the number of yuppies who continue their previous pre-child life while dragging their poor kids in tow. Yeah, children fly sometimes. But if you have a 3 and 5 year old, what the devil are you thinking when you book a vacation to Hawaii? That they’re going to love the 6 hours or so on a plane? And once they get there, the parents dump their kids at the pool for a six hour marathon of “Marco Polo” while they enjoy their mai-tais. If a group of adults set up a water volleyball game and played for an hour, you can bet said parents would complain that the kids couldn’t use the pool. If you want an unfettered experience for your kids, there are plenty of places for that. But stop expecting everyone else to indulge your kid’s behavior when they are tired of waiting on you to try on your 34th pair of shoes at the mall.

By jane kitson

July 24, 2006 08:20 AM | Link to this

I am JANE KITSON the woman in the article at the hotel with the pool in Florida. I have enjoyed reading each of the comments. Several have shared wonderful insights, many are thought provoking and the various stories have been interesting. I have been quoted in the newspaper before and ( due to column layout and size) some things are always cut. Here are a few things you may want to know: I AM A NATIONAL EARLY CHILDHOOD EDUCATIONAL CONSULTANT….translate…I have spoken to 75,000 educators in 44 states about topics that relate to children ages 2-7.

I am also MOTHER GOOSE ….translate…I share rhymes and storytelling sessions with over 5000 children here in Atlanta and often in other states. I can manage 100 children per show ( if these children have personal repect and courtesy). This is no small task and MANY tell me it is amazing. I LOVE CHILDREN…my business is children. Children are a precious gift!

I HAVE NO PROBLEM WITH ENERGETIC CHILDREN… this is simply how they are! Rudeness is not tolerated. Children typically behave the way their parents expect them too. If you set boundaries….rewards and consequences, your children will get the nessage. Energetic children CANNOT be expected to behave ( for extended periods) on an adult environment….USE JUDGMENT….oops some parents have no judgment…sorry….we teachers already know this

I TAUGHT KINDERGARTEN-2ND GRADE FOR MANY YEARS….ask a classroom teacher if some of the above antics are cute…they are not, especially when you have 20 plus children who are behaving the same way in your classroom. Think of it this way…if there were 15 children within 15 yards of my child, behaving the same way….would this be pleasant….if not, you may want to do something.

To clarify:

the children in the pool were not the biggest problem…the children running through the lobby and slipping on the floor because they were dripping wet, and the front desk clerk who was about to cry because she was trying to answer the phone and could not even hear anything due to the level of noise, plus the elevators being used as amusement park rides ( unsupervised children hopping on and off pushing every button) gave me a STRONG indication that this was going to be a LONG night. PUBLIC disturbance can be controlled by the police…hence I suggested this option. Everyone went to their rooms ( grumbling) and we had a quiet night. The front desk clerk that evening and in the morning thanked me as they “had simply had enough of it and other patrons were livid…”

Children will behave enthusiastically but when it is ruining everyone else’s day, think about it.

If you have toddlers and see teenagers PLOWING through your neighborhood with their newly minted license…THINK…these were the toddlers whose laughter and noise was an acceptable part of life 12-15 years ago and they have no respect for those around them, now you know what it feels like to have other children making your life a nightmare! Do you want your children driving your car when they are simply CUTE an have no regard for others?

WE DO NOT DISLIKE CHILDREN…they simply need to be shown the boundaries of how to behave in each of life’s arena’s…are you doing your JOB? Thanks for listening. I appreciate your comments.

P.S. We have been shopping in stores where parents LEAVE their children SCREAMING in a cart and are in the next isle looking for something…what is up with this? When my teenagers were young, the reward of behaving nicely was getting a treat and the consequence was NOTHING and a swift trip out of the store…yes it was an inconvenience ( to me…oh my) but they learned outcomes quickly!

By Hotlanta

July 24, 2006 08:26 AM | Link to this

I went to an event last night and a toddler was crying for at least 30 minutes or more disturbing everyone. Somebody tell me what is a baby stroller doing in a movie theater? The next time your cute little kick me in back of the seat, I will go and get the usher. Babies can’t go everywhere with you. It should be child abuse for a parent to even have them in those strollers while running in 95 degree heat. I went to a wedding that was being videotaped and this child was playing with his toys, banging on the church pews making a lot of noise and mom kept sitting there like nothing had ever happened. What happened to those good ole days where parents took the child out of the room when they got noisy.

By amused

July 24, 2006 08:27 AM | Link to this

Keep in mind this is the person that trolls her neighborhood for “mothers helpers’ on the first day of summer vacation, so that she can “get things done”. The same person that puts her 2 year old in preschool. And the same person that goes out of her way to tell us she’s a SAHM, but then cleverly tells us about her “minority” housekeeper. I’ve said it before, this blog is less about parenting issues and more about how to avoid, as much as possible, the responsibilities of being a parent. AJC???????????

By jane kitson

July 24, 2006 08:28 AM | Link to this

sorry for the few typos in the previous post…typing is NOT my strongest asset…thanks for your patience!

By Bill Wright II

July 24, 2006 08:41 AM | Link to this

Mamum, you so off base. I helped raise three children and when they were in public places they acted correctly. They were taught at an early age that you their is a place to run play and make loud noise and their are places where you don’t. Inside Doctors offices and business offices are not play areas. Nothing gauls me more than see a parent that keeps telling a brat whom they created now don’t do that again 20 or 30 times. I want to take the parent out to the woodshed and teach them what their not teaching their children. Consistentiy makes all the difference in the world. I don’t care what some people believe their are proper ways to act and proper places act.

By mom3boys

July 24, 2006 08:50 AM | Link to this

To Jane Kitson: Two of my 3 boys had the pleasure of your mother goose performance while attending First Baptist Lawrenceville Preschool. You are an amazing woman! Recently we had out of state company who told us of the new ministry she was starting at her church. She said the “older” (50+) moms were trying to teach the younger moms how to do their job. Some were thrilled, others were aghast that someone might suggest that they not know what they were doing. The “older” ladies at church had had just about enough of “tots gone wild.” They were tired of the senior citizens being run over, events disrupted, and over all general bad manners. We have to remember as parents that our rights to go, do, and see do NOT supercede the rights of others. Fifteen years ago my mom told me that all I did was threaten my kids; if I didn’t get my act together, no one would ever want to be around them…they’d be total brats. This was so hard to hear! How dare her say that to me! I told a friend what my mom said. She said that my mom was right. Egadds!!! An honest friend! I sat the guys down (only had 2 then) and told them that things were about to change. Life was hard for all of us for about a year, while they got used to new rules and I learned to be tough. My kids are not perfect by ANY stretch of the imagination, but I can tell you that they never got in trouble at school for rudeness. I never had to worry about their behavior in restaurants, or other public places. I will reiterate: it’s not about US…it’s about OTHERS!!!

By Joyce

July 24, 2006 09:22 AM | Link to this

The behavior in restaurants is what gets me. However, it’s not so much the annoyance factor as it is the safety factor. When I was 14 or so, I spent a summer Candy-Striping in the Pediatric ward of a hospital that also was a regional burn center. There were several young patients there at the time with burns caused by food spills at restaurants, possibly because the child was horsing around. As someone mentioned in an earlier post, kids running around was cute for the father until one child was hurt. Even today the sight of a child running in a restaurant sets every nerve in my body on edge. C’mon parents, let’s be sensible!

By Joe Camp

July 24, 2006 09:29 AM | Link to this

1st of all, I would like to address those who have written of their disgust for children. I have read them described as “little animals” and I have read of disdain for school taxes, etc. Keep in mind (John Orram) that one day you will retire. Whether you get a pension, 401K payout, or a soc sec check is fully dependent on someone following your footsteps to work and keep the economy running. Someone, younger than you, must be working to put food on your table or wipe your a$$ when you are old and no longer able.

Nations such as Japan and France are facing a reproductive -and financial- crisis…they are not making enough babies. Perhaps French men can’t get it done, but I digress. Children are essential to our future.

While children are an integral -and unavoidable- aspect of our culture, that does not mean that we must accept child like behavior in certain settings. Children must be taught to respect other people. Children are vital, but so are manners. Manners are the oil that soothes and smooths social transactions, which combats the friction that can occur as we deal with one another..

For example, a sit down restaurant requires a certain decorum. Diners should sit down and converse in voices that are not obtrusive to other tables. Wait staff should be treated politely, with pleases and thank-you’s all around. Kids should be expected to maintain this decorum…that’s how they learn.

On the flip side of this example, I urge patience with parents who have an -occassional- outburst from a young child in public.

My children are well behaved…because I insist that they behave and that they employ the good manners I have taught and exemplified.

However, I have encountered other peoples’ children whose behavior sucks. Personally, I have no problem addressing them directly and verbally correcting their behavior. Or, if available, I will address the parents. I don’t have to get ticked off, I just do not put up with it. I do not believe that my roles as a manager, role model, and Father ends at my job or at my doorstep. We -especially Fathers- have a leadership responsibility to all the young people that we encounter.

By Theresa

July 24, 2006 09:41 AM | Link to this

Dear Amused — You have officially p’d me off. THis is off topic but I’m tired of this crap that this blog is about not-mothering. I am with my kids at a minimum 11.5 waking hours a day — that adds up to more than 55 hours a week that I take care of my children (and I’m happy and blessed to do so). During the year, my 2.5 year old was in preschool for exactly 5 hours of those 55 hours. My 4-year-old was in preschool for 12 hours a week. I don’t think I am shirking my mothering duty to be alone five hours a week. As for this summer I have a young girl that plays wiht my kids for 8 hours a week so I can work for the ajc. Seven of the 12 weeks of their summer vacation we haven’t even had her. Again does 8 hours of in-house help out of more than 55 hours mean I am not taking care of my children — I don’t think so. I think you would be hard-pressed to find a mother who actually spends more alone time with her kids. (And those hours are spent going to pools, playgrounds, libraries, being read to, drawn wiht, cooked with, practicing letters and phonics, caring for our animals and the garden) So feel free to criticize me for other crap, but don’t tell me I’m not taking care of my kids!

By momswithbackbones

July 24, 2006 09:42 AM | Link to this

Yes, yes, yes, YES it’s the parents responsibility to make sure the child acts decently or remove them from the venue! I have two daughters age 6 and 10. I don’t ask that they act decently, I demand it. A little talking and acting like a child is expected, but running around in restaurants, screaming and crying, throwing food and acting like the terrors should NOT be tolerated! In return, some PARENTS think that they have the RIGHT to go anywhere they please and just roll their eyes at their children’s actions. “They’re just being kids.” is the biggest cop-out on the planet. You can’t expect kids to sit motionless with their hands by their sides all the time, but CONTROL your child! If you can’t, have the repect of everyone around you to either remove them or give them a “come to Jesus” meeting! Parents, it’s YOUR JOB to teach the children manners and the appropriate behavior in public places. The can have fun WITHOUT becoming Damien Thorne anytime they don’t get what they want or get bored. If they can’t handle that, they shouldn’t be out in a public venue. Sorry, but if you have kids, that’s a part of the bargain. You may not like it (I didn’t like it either, but accepted the bargain), but there are other people on this planet besides you and your child. The deal is for everyone to do what they can to make the journey easier for everybody (just like traffic, putting a leash on your dog and respecting everyone else around you in restaurants and public places). If you chose not to, shut up about the mean glances, catty comments and written articles. You are shooting yourself in the foot with your arrogance!

By Aquagirl

July 24, 2006 09:48 AM | Link to this

Are you kidding? The thought that these little animals—who have grown up with no parenting or expectation that they behave as part of society—-will be responsible for my pension is what scares me! And why in the crap would you take a young child (like a toddler) to a sit down restaurant where they have to follow rules they don’t seem capable of understanding? Or that make them miserable as hell?

And just try to address one of these parents with uncontrollable kids. It’s like talking to a brick wall, except brick walls don’t sneer in a superior “it’s my child, you’re being intolerant” manner. Heck, go back and read the column above.

By abc

July 24, 2006 10:08 AM | Link to this

Someone else used my alphabetic moniker here, hmmmmm.

When my kids were younger, I’d always tell them to be on their BEST behavior when we were in public. Most of the time they were. If they started acting up I removed them from the situation, allowing them to return after a private chat. It wasn’t a problem.

People don’t do that very much these days though. The unruly kids are either not being disciplined by their parent(s) or have redneck mama yelling and jerking them around (that’s incredibly sad to see). I think that hotel pools, restaurants, grocery stores, and airplanes shouldn’t be subjected to unruly kids. They’re not playgrounds.

By BeAParent

July 24, 2006 10:08 AM | Link to this

So feel free to criticize me for other crap, but don’t tell me I’m not taking care of my kids!

OK, I’ll criticize you for this. Your first and only response after a weekend full of commentary was to the silly personal attack. You have not even made a pretense of answering any of the OTHER charges leveled against your column and your opinion; why not? Are you unwilling to acknowledge that you were and are wrong on this issue? Unable to defend your off-the-cuff mommy-centric position with reasoned argument?

I am, frankly, disgusted.

By Controlyourchildren

July 24, 2006 10:13 AM | Link to this

DITTO to momswithbackbones.

By smomma

July 24, 2006 10:14 AM | Link to this

Amused - I have to say that I’m am offended by your comments. We have three children and all three have gone through pre-school. My first because he is hearing impaired and we felt it was important for him to be around other children so that he could model their language and play skills. My next two have been in pre-school also. They enjoy preschool very much and there are many benefits to it. When my oldest started kindergarten last year his teacher commented that you could really tell who had pre-school and who had not. And further more, the when they were all 2 they only went 2 days a week for three hours. That is only 6 hours a week. I would hardly call that shirking my duties as a mother. Pre-school gives me just enough time to run to the grocery store sans kiddies, run home and put the groceries away, and then spend about 30 minutes on housework. I would hardly call that relaxing on a chaise lounge watching soap operas (which I never watch in the first place) eating bon-bons while painting my nails. If perhaps, I do not have to grocery shopping, then it is a morning of folding laundry and running miscellaneous errands. Also, there is nothing wrong with asking the little girl down the road to help out for a a few hours so that I can get errands done during the summer when there is no pre-school. Even when I am not with my children, I am still a SAHM which means I have a lot to do. Stop being so judgemental about pre-school and getting help every once in awhile. I can’t speak for all the SAHMs here. I do just about all the housework and child rearing by myself because my husband works hard so that our children can be raised by me and not a daycare center. There is no break to being a mother. There is no going home to “relax” for the evening. So step off, and cut us some slack.

By smomma

July 24, 2006 10:19 AM | Link to this

I would also like to add that when the kids are in pre-school or when I get a babysitter I use that time to run errands to doctors offices, stores, and many different public places just so that I can be considerate to all those who complain about kids being in public.

By Blue Moon

July 24, 2006 10:21 AM | Link to this

This is one of my soapbox issues, and I feel that Theresa’s editorial came off as a bit arrogant, presumptious, and giving some parents entirely too much credit. I am 53, childless by choice, and have never, ever regretted my decision. I do not expect to live in a world without children nor do I go out to “pass judgement on parents.” I do, however, expect children to be laughing, yelling or running in the appropriate environments, not when I’m at the theatre or trying to have a nice, more expensive type meal. Some parents need to realize that everybody doesn’t love their kids just because they do, and that their children will be more welcomed and liked if they behave more appropriately.

Not long ago I was on a 2-hour flight, and a screaming kid was right behind me. He shrieked at the top of his lungs for the duration of the trip. Earphones did not help, either. And his mother did absolutely nothing to quiet him down. This brat disturbed a lot of other passengers as well. I do not think anyone should have to endure that.

I have been in a mall when a kid ran right smack into me and then told me to watch where I was going. I had a kid slap his hand in my ice cream, and he and mom thought it was too funny. Of course I threw it away after that. At a “nicer” restaurant, 2 kids started pulling my hair, and wouldn’t stop. The two women with them thought that was funny too.

Although I admit to not being overly fond of kids in general, I do think well-behaved, polite kids are absolutely wonderful. I have three therapy dogs (dogs who go to hospitals, nursing homes, etc.) that I take to a children’s hospital, libraries, and schools, and I have never encountered an unruly, rude, screaming kid at any of these facilities. These have all been the kind of kids most of us like to be around. And I will compliment the parents of well-behaved kids in restaurants too, and they all seem to be appreciative of it.

In the last sentence of Theresa’s editorial, she says she doesn’t understand why such happy sounds fill so many with anger. These happy sounds in a park or playground are not going to be perceived the same as these happy sounds in a movie theatre or on a flight. Parents who won’t discipline their kids and think their kids do no wrong are the ones who need to grow up.

By Theresa

July 24, 2006 10:24 AM | Link to this

BeAParent — I had my say for 800 words at the top of blog. I gave you my opinion, and now you get to give yours.

By Aquagirl

July 24, 2006 10:26 AM | Link to this

Go BeAParent!!!

I am breathlessly awaiting the next column by Ms. Giarrusso entitled : “Parents Should Grow Up And Consider Others Who Inhabit The Planet With Their Yuppie Entitled Selves, And The 24 Karat Gold-Plated Children.”

Maybe I shouldn’t be holding my breath.

By singlemom

July 24, 2006 10:31 AM | Link to this

I feel so sorry for those who dislike children. I think a child’s laughter and innocence is the most beautiful thing on earth. I wish I could have had more than my one child, however, I do love my child more than life itself. I love being around kids, they keep me young. I love being the “kool-aide” mom in my neighborhood. I love that the teenage kids in my neighborhood love coming over to my house. I love that my child is happy and healthy, and very respecful of others. I love playing with kids. In a restaurant you will find me coloring and playing hang man or tic tac toe on the back of a paper placemat with the kids.
I love to get down to their level and play and laugh and laugh and laugh. I love tossing them around in a pool. I would love to open a day care.
People who don’t like kids are selfish and have no idea what real love is. I feel sorry for those people. Oh yea, I did have to remove my child from a restaurant in St. Simons. We sat in the car while the rest of the patrons dined in quiet. I am a responsible parent, and I am definately reaping the rewards of some very hard work.

By Toad

July 24, 2006 10:41 AM | Link to this

Theresa, et.al. Here is what I’ve been able to come up with thus far: 1. Being able to reproduce does not make you a hero or your kids special. Amoebas can do it. 2. Had I behaved in any way described in the aforementioned article, I’d be dead. 3. I’m so “intolerant” that the only place in town I know for certain that I can get a kid-free meal is at Alluvia (inside the Cheetah III). I also feel safe at the lunch buffet at the Pink Pony. 4. The restaurant manager that kicked out the bad kid and its family is my new personal hero. 5. Because I don’t have kids, I am the devil.

By abc

July 24, 2006 10:43 AM | Link to this

@Theresa, it certainly seems that you have the minority opinion. Is the blog not for debate? I’d be interested in your response to some of the less hate-filled posts.

By smomma

July 24, 2006 10:44 AM | Link to this

Aquagirl - there is nothing wrong with success. Perhaps you are mistaken as to what success really is. You seem to think it is about an entitlement mentality when it is anything but. To be successful takes an unbelievably large amount of hard work, long hours, and tons of sacrifice. It seems to me that the people who are not successful are the ones with the entitlement mentality because those darn successful people took their opportunities.

By B.S.

July 24, 2006 10:44 AM | Link to this

You know what’s really changed about society - the basic intolerance people carry with them. And I just don’t mean in regards to this children issue - I mean with everything. People only give a crap about themselves and everyone who they don’t know can go die - it’s very sad. There is no community anymore just, nasty, selfish individuals who believe everybody must accommodate them.

A brief example: I had a family member go to the emergency room, so I raced in my car - you won’t believe how many people won’t get out of the left lane, for faster moving traffic! Really, they would make everyone go around them! For worse than a screaming baby - because they are consciously being a rude and inconsiderate a**.

But to be on topic, I think there are too many variables in play, for this to be black and white. The child’s age is one, the place and time of day is another, and of course, the behavior being displayed.

As for the plane issue, if it’s a baby (under two years old) and it cries -you have to deal with it. A five year old running up and down an aisle is a different story. So this really is a case by case basis, and can’t be lumped into a generalized answer. ( also about rude, plane etiquette, DON’T ONE OF YOUR 4 CARRY ON BAGS IN MY OVERHEAD STORAGE IF YOUR’RE NOT IN MY ROW!)

By Becky White

July 24, 2006 10:46 AM | Link to this

This issue is a very hot topic for me as I am a mother of a 3 year old and I am very consious of her behavior in public and try at all times to keep her under control. This past weekend I was forced to take her to my nephew’s play as there were no babysitting options and it was VERY important for me to be there to support him in what was a semi-proffesional production (big thing for a 14 year old). During the performance, I kept my 3 year old quiet, and as still as possible, however, this was not to the satisfaction of the people behind me, who told us that our daughter is rude and very distracting to thier evening. We let them know we would not have brought her if there were other options, the importance of the evening, and apologized, however, this only escalated in a scene that rivaled what was going on the actual stage. There are valid arguements to both sides and I can understand those that want a kid-free environment. Perhaps, we are all looking at this the wrong way in this case. Shouldn’t this be the responsiblity of the venues that we frequent? Should there be a separate public spaces for young families how aren’t bothered by each other and the childless and annoyed? Should theaters offer a time for kids to come enjoy performances so that there squirming won’t bother other people?

By abc

July 24, 2006 10:52 AM | Link to this

@Becky, yours is a case in point where young children’s presence was inappropriate. As soon as you realized your child was creating a disturbance (whether you thought it other people’s irritation was warranted or not) you should have removed the child. That you couldn’t secure a sitter doesn’t mean that you can impose the child’s behavior on everyone in the audience at a play. Don’t you think that’s a bit rude?

By BRANDI

July 24, 2006 10:52 AM | Link to this

I am a single mother of two children (ages 4yr & 3yr) My kids are not perfect but my children are very welled behaved. I mean they do act like normal children of course. But they say yes mam/yes sir or no mam/no sir, please, thank you, and excuse me. My children don’t push or shove. This is because of proper training. However my children do get excited and run at times but if you properly correct them then there is nothing to worry about. Now if we are in a place that is fitted for children then I am not worried about what others think or feel but if we are in a place that is not so kid friendly then I feel all children (mine included) need to be on their best behavior. And once again that comes from proper training from their parents. Children are only going to do what you let them. And to (Reeves Cantwalk ) the person that said they would stab a child with a fork well I would like to see you try to stab mine with a fork, you wouldn’t get to dang far. Plus that was a very rude comment. You must be a very depressed and bitter person. I will pray for you!! (Because you need it).

By momswithbackbones

July 24, 2006 10:56 AM | Link to this

Parnts who discipline and control children in public venues also love them and want them to blend into society when they grow up by knowing thet EVERYONE has rules that they need to follow and the real world doesn’t care if they didn’t get any sleep last night, want the toy that they didn’t get or just got bored after their meal. That’s WHY we teach them this. Parents and kids get a bad rap because of the idiotic parents that “want their children to enjoy their childhood”. They can enjoy it better by learning the meaning of manners and proper behavior instead of “whatever I want to do…I’m a child”.

I notice that all of these jelly-backboned get on the “children are our future” rap. What about NOW and if we don’t handle it, there won’t be a future for us. Our offspring will be still doing what they learned….whatever they want to do instead of what they’re supposed to do.

By Aquagirl

July 24, 2006 10:58 AM | Link to this

smomma, when did I criticize success? And perhaps you (and a lot of parents in general) need a lesson in what success is. It’s not being able to drag your kids to those “successful” people vacations (like Hawaii), or to “successful” people restaurants. It’s having a beautiful family and enjoying their company. My point is that many people have kids, and then they want to continue to do what they want reguardless of the kids. How many children (especially smaller ones) really enjoy shopping at the mall, followed by lunch at Appleby’s? Yet the AJC published that scathing letter from the silly woman who did just that, then was offended that the restaurant manager asked her to leave.

You want to know what success is? The family I saw this weekend out walking around Stone Mountain with their two kids. God Bless those parents for doing something WITH their children. Those people are successful, no matter what their economic status. And their kids will most likely be like them, not Ms. “I’m Entitled To Eat Here While My Children Scream”.

By Becky White

July 24, 2006 10:59 AM | Link to this

@abc, I did the best I could under the circumstances. And I did leave the play at that point. Needless to say, I will never take her to another play…which I am sure will please all I am sure. If my nephew had not been in this particular play I would not have taken her anyway. BTW, I neglected to mention that my husband did take her out before the comment was made by the other people.

By mom3boys

July 24, 2006 11:05 AM | Link to this

smomma&others…. Why in the world would anyone think “bad mommies” take their kids to preschool? Pediatricians, James Dobson, and John Rosemond all agree that children benefit from preschool (not daycare, but that’s another hot topic!). Kids that go should attend approximately the number of 1/2 days per week that they are years old (ex: if he is 2, then 2 mornings a week). Teachers will tell you that there is nothing worse than a child that doesn’t know how to socialize with other kids, and that skill is learned in preschool. The biggest brat in my Sunday school class is a homeschooled kiddo that doesn’t get around other kids much, and when he does, he’s wild.

The bottom line with teaching them to behave is this: what you see as cute and tolerable will very quickly become unattractive as they age. You can’t wake up one day and say to your 13 year old, “Now I need you to be nice and follow the rules.” It isn’t going to work. Ask the teachers at the GIVE center in Gwinnett…that school is teaming with adolescents that didn’t learn proper behavior at home.

By Lisa

July 24, 2006 11:08 AM | Link to this

I often find that the same parents who believe others shouldn’t expect their little darlings to behave in a proper, polite and respectful way are the same parents who talk too loudly on cellphones in public places, cut ahead of others in carpool lines and get impatient when they aren’t being “served” fast enough. Guess we shouldn’t be surprised then that their offspring would act in the exact same fashion—rudely. From the time we were all in nursery school we were taught to be polite, curteous, respectful of others, willing to share, and that waiting patiently in lines or for your turn is part of life. The rules of proper behavior haven’t changed, but unfortunately, there is a generation who has decided the rules don’t apply to them and choose to ignore them. Hence, they are raising their children the same way. Supposedly, the rest of us are supposed to put up with it, because they and their children are “entitled” to behave any way they choose.

By I'm with B.S.

July 24, 2006 11:09 AM | Link to this

B.S. has got it right. People seem incredibly intolertant of anything that inconveniences and quick to judge others. And the Internet gives them an outlet to express this intolerance.

He/She is also right about the variables. Anyone who generalizes about parents or children is being unfair. Obviously, there are some terrible parents and some unruly children, just as there are rude childless adults looking for a reason to judge others. It is unfair for someone to say that all parents or most parents, including Mrs. Giarrusso, are “not doing their jobs” or “raising little animals” based on a bad experience they had with someone else’s children. On another topic, I find it interesting that many posters clearly believe that parenting has gotten worse over the years. As if child abuse and neglect never happened in the 1950s or 1960s because it wasn’t shown on “I Love Lucy” or “Leave it to Beaver.” Or, as if all the children of “older mothers” were well-behaved and well-adjusted. If that was the case, who gave birth to all these terrible parents that most of the posters are complaining about?

By Peachy

July 24, 2006 11:11 AM | Link to this

Wow….I can’t believe some of these posts!! So violent!! So inflammatory!! Remember, you were children once too!!

I also disagree with you, Theresa. On the occasion my kids misbehave in public (on the rare occasion), they are swiftly corected and informed that such behavior is inappropriate in public. Running around unspervised, screaming, throwing things, hitting - all illegal in any setting. Picking things up off shelves, getting out of their seats without permission, talking to strangers - all illegal without my consent and supervision. My kids love the run and play and they do that in places where it is safe an appropriate to do so, but I would be mortified if a complete stranger felt compelled to correct my kids’ behavior. A modicum of patience is expected while I attempt correct the situation, but I don’t ask my children to do something more than once, and they have learned quickly that if I say NO that they’d better not push the issue.

By Jessalyn Anglin

July 24, 2006 11:11 AM | Link to this

How sad! I imagine many people live very bitter lives if they can’t stop to enjoy a child’s smile or laugh. The responses to this blog remind me of the “children should be seen and not heard” mentality that was prevalent many years ago. I’m raising my children to be curious, outgoing and witty. After all, I figure we have enough docile, meek drones. I do teach my children the difference between “inside voices” and “outside voices.” I also keep my expectations of my children appropriate for their ages. I don’t think my children have a divine right to be anywhere (there will be no Morton’s in their near future). However, I don’t think child-hating adults should think they have a divine right for silence everywhere they go. If you can’t stand to be around children that much, stay home or move to a retirement community. Consider these words by George Washington Carver, “How far you go in life depends on your being tender with the young, compassionate with the aged, sympathetic with the striving and tolerant of the weak and strong. Because someday in life you will have been all of these.”

By Moebus

July 24, 2006 11:11 AM | Link to this

BeckyWhite:

You sound like basically a considerate person, but I have to disagree with you on one point and it’s a pretty central one. You were not forced to take your three year old to the play. You had the option of staying home. This is precisely the sort of venue that a three year old shouldn’t be brought to-it’s just not realistic to expect a toddler to remain still and quiet for any extended length of time (it might happen but it’s not likely). As praiseworthy as your desire to support your nephew was, I think it has to give way to the reasonable expectations of others in the audience that they were going to be able to watch the play free from distractions. We all have to give up doing some things when we have kids, and IMO this was such a situation.

By momswithbackbones

July 24, 2006 11:16 AM | Link to this

Wonder why none of the momma’s seem to be calling us mean and heartless. Could it be that what they see and hear at the restaurants is being echoed in a blog where they expected to hear “Oh those people are SO mean and you and your angels can go anywhere you want!”. Reality makes believers of us all.

By B.S.

July 24, 2006 11:17 AM | Link to this

Lisa, I’ll take it one step further. I bet many of the people criticizing these children are also rude in many ways. I bet some are smokers who puff away in people’s faces or drivers who cut others off, etc. Most people who are quick to point out the failures of others too often don’t see any behavior they do as inappropriate. Look at this entire blog- everyone believes they have the right opinion!

In fact, the more I think about it - I get more annoyed with adults who display bad behavior, because they are “old enough to know better”!

And enough with this entitled crap! Most of the people complaining think they are “entitled” to never have to come in contact with anything or lifestyle they don’t like. Well, sorry, give up your ENTITLEMENT attitude! Have parties at your house or go to places that only serve people 21 or older, buy your own plane (not that successful are you?)or own island and create your own utopia - otherwise deal with the fact that there are other people besides you and your little group of friends who live in this society.

By momswithbackbones

July 24, 2006 11:20 AM | Link to this

Jessalyn is obviously doing some really wacky cough syrup….. That sounded like one of the people just returning from Woodstock.

By Becky White

July 24, 2006 11:20 AM | Link to this

@Moebus, I don’t believe I will ever make the same decision again given what happened. However, I don’t agree that we should give up all things…one question did come to mind. If we don’t bring children to public events such as this, how will they learn the right behavior? Should there be matinees where children are embraced so they can learn an appreciation for these types of venues and not bother other people?

By smf

July 24, 2006 11:28 AM | Link to this

Becky,

My thought would be to expose the children to something like a play in public when they are old enough to understand it. Then, start with small doses and increase as the child shows the ability to maintain interest.

By Aquagirl

July 24, 2006 11:29 AM | Link to this

Oh, thanks B.S! We can move to a island to accomodate your lazyness/lack of parenting skills? And unlike ReevesCantWalk, I won’t stab your child with a fork. I will, however, verbally rip you in front of your child for being such a jerk. Maybe then your kid will have a chance (however small) to overcome their poor gene pool and be a decent human being.

You may want to start saving up for therapy now. Your kid’s gonna need it.

By Moebus

July 24, 2006 11:34 AM | Link to this

@BeckyWhite:

Live and learn as they say; but honestly did you expect your 3 YO to be able to sit still through the play? A 3 YO is just too young for that-at that age they don’t understand having to sit still and be quiet for that long. It’s not a matter of them not being trained properly; they’re just too young for it. You don’t have to give up all things when you have small kids; but you do have to give up some things.

I posted before I saw your second post, and now I have another question-if your husband was with you at the play, why didn’t one of you stay home with your child and the other go to the play?

By Becky White

July 24, 2006 11:42 AM | Link to this

There were special circumstances with this performance. (and hindsight being 20-20, you are probably right) My father, nephews grandfather, died recently who was very close and supportive of his performances. I think the importance of being there to support him in his first performance since PawPaw died overtook all else. I was also banking on the fact that my 3 year old has an unusally large attention span, in fact, for much of the play she was entranced.

I am usually VERY aware other people’s feeling regarding her behavior in public, and I will live and learn, but the next public outing…I will be uber anxious to the point of panic due to the experience I had this weekend.

By CFBC

July 24, 2006 11:43 AM | Link to this

Theresa, you’re just trying to justify your own lazy parenting skills. Nobody thinks other people’s children making noise in public is cute. Once again, the childfree by choice are branded as baby-haters. We don’t hate children (most of us). We hate parents who won’t do their job. We hate parents who think it is their God given right to take Little Precious to an R-rated movie or to a symphony concert.

Why don’t parents get it? Chances are, you will not find a childfree-by-choice person at a G-rated matinee movie or at Chuck E. Cheese. We know better. So why do parents persist in bringing their children places they don’t belong and are not welcome? LAZINESS. Parents are too cheap and selfish to hire a babysitter.

Shame on you for criticizing Virginia Anderson’s well-written article. Her writing actually has substance and isn’t a whine-fest like your blog.

By smomma

July 24, 2006 11:46 AM | Link to this

Aquagirl - when did I ever say that it was I with the entitlement mentality? Just to clarify, we never take our children to resturants that’s what babysitters are for. And for fun we love spending time as a family. My point of success was not on a economic standpoint but more that true success is not haveing an entitlement mentality. We have earned everything we have and never once have we felt entitled to it.

By loller

July 24, 2006 11:47 AM | Link to this

It looks like it’s getting close to nap time for many of you. My 3 year old acts more like an adult than most of you do. But she will learn to be a well-mannered adult, what is your excuse?

By Peachy

July 24, 2006 12:00 PM | Link to this

I forgot to add that I don’t take my kids to the movies, the museums, or restaurants unless they are family-friendly. Even then, they are well-behaved and respectful. If they aren’t, we go home. I don’t like it, but it’s not all about me, and I may be strict, but my kids will show other people respect and courtesy.

I completely agree with the thought that rude children who expect to be catered to become rude adults who expect to be catered to. I have seen it happen firsthand, and those people may be well-behaved when it serves their purpose, but when things don’t go their way….yikes.

By Aquagirl

July 24, 2006 12:03 PM | Link to this

smomma,

I never said a thing about your entitlement mentality. You were the one who started blathering in your previous post about working long hours and being successful, which has absolutely nothing to do with the subject put forth here. Stick to long posts about your daily scheduling.

If you want to address my point that too many yuppie adults are hauling kids along to places where THEY want to go, then accusing others of being “intolerant” when the kids are unhappy and disruptive, feel free to do so. I’d love to hear it, if you can make a logical point. Judging from your last post, that might be a challenge.

By B.S.

July 24, 2006 12:23 PM | Link to this

Aquagirl, you TRULY are an idiot. I don’t have any kids. But nice try!

You need to go to adult places and not places with kids then get p** when kids are there. I’ve never had an experience with kids running around out of control at Bones or Ruth’s Chris steak house. But ya, they’re at McDonalds. So maybe you should go upscale and avoid the kiddies. And ask your therapists for some new anger meds, obviously the ones you’re on now aren’t working!

By Aquagirl

July 24, 2006 12:41 PM | Link to this

You have no kids B. S.? That’s the best news I’ve heard all day.

Y’know, I’m going to take your advice, and go to upscale places where there are no kids, like semi-professional productions of a play…oh, no wait,that doesn’t seem to work. Maybe I should get a good scrip for those anger meds before I move to that Island Of No McDonalds.

But I do give parents like Becky credit for realizing that hey, maybe it isn’t a good idea to bring the three year old along, despite her good intentions to support family members. At least she shows some consideration/awareness for others. Maybe you should give that a shot when you aren’t trolling.

By Becky White

July 24, 2006 01:50 PM | Link to this

Aquagirl, do you think that perhaps in these venues that both sides like to attempt to frequent should set clear rules for child attendance? Perhaps “the huddled masses” isn’t such a good idea and segregation a better one. For eventhough, it wasn’t a good decision for my child at this point…I would like to expose her to some culture at some point in her life and while I try to be considerate of others, short of saying never to let her see the light of day, I cannot guarantee that some missteps will be made and annoy others.

By Dad in Roswell

July 24, 2006 02:13 PM | Link to this

Its not just kids that are misbehaving and acting out. Maybe some so called “adults” should learn some manners and respect for others, also. I can’t take my kids to college football games because certain “adults” think it is their right to get drunk and curse the entire game. Last time I check a football game was a “public” place. The problem at the games isn’t the kids, its the arrogant, inconsiderate adults.

By Katherine

July 24, 2006 02:15 PM | Link to this

Theresa, it is your responsibility to keep your children quiet in public places.

Let’s face it, there are places that parents have no business bringing their children: upscale restaurants, weddings, graduations, R films, hot tub/sauna areas. I would say that six is the absolute minimum age when you should possibly consider taking a child to all of the above. I believe the above places should have age restrictions, and many are doing just that. Las Vegas has the Bellagio and Wynn that ban children and strollers, and it has not hurt their businesses.

Yes, there are good parents, but there are also horrible parents, and those are the ones we notice. Unfortunately, these people should not have had children if they did not want to devote 100%. These people fall into the category of those who had children because it was the thing to do and feared family and friends would be upset if they didn’t or use the excuse “it just happened.” It’s getting better, in terms of those making a conscious decision not to have kids, but it is obviously still an issue. We all know “how it happens” though, so there no excuse for unplanned kids.

Also, parents need to begin removing their children when they become disruptive, starting when they are babies, otherwise, they may become numb to the behavior and not do it when their child is older.

By B.S.

July 24, 2006 02:21 PM | Link to this

Aquagirl, You see the key word is “semi-professional” - if it’s in the local theater or your friend is in it, it probably isn’t an expensive, quality production. You see most people won’t pay 100-200 dollars to buy a ticket for a three year-old.

But I am glad to hear you are moving to that island! Maybe you could put on your own little play - wouldn’t that be something (the angry, childless vagina monologues)? Of course, no kids allowed - but that won’t be a problem because you’ll be with your bestest and only friend -yourself!

By B.S.

July 24, 2006 02:26 PM | Link to this

Dad in Roswell,

That’s an excellent point. I don’t even enjoy taking a date to a sporting event because of all the drunks - you feel like your on edge the entire time. And I’ve been to some venues (like the thrashers) that heavily market to children and families and am appalled at the behavior of some of the adults.

By I'm with B.S. and Dad from Roswell

July 24, 2006 03:35 PM | Link to this

Right on Dad from Roswell. I can count on two hands the number of times I’ve been bothered by children in the past year, but I broke the calculator trying to come up with the number of sporting events, concerts, meals or flights I have had ruined by some obnoxious, drunk or rude adult.

And why do these people keep repeating the point that young children shouldn’t be in fancy restaraunts, R-rated movies or concerts. Didn’t the author say that in the first paragraph? But the child-haters don’t seem to recognize what some parents are complaining about is the silly idea that since some children are unruly, all families should be banned from museums, churches and the Applebees at the Mall of Georgia. That’s what the majority of posters here seem to be advocating.

Everyone agrees that children should be disciplined, and older children should be expected to behave. The major disagreement is how to deal with the other situations, when families with children under two want to get out of the house and go somewhere other than McDonald’s or Chuck E. Cheese.

The child haters seem to be saying that these people “made the choice to have children” so it’s their responsibility to avoid all situations that could possibly irritate anyone else. My feeling is that if someone is SO irritated by a small child crying, it is that person’s responsibility to avoid all public places where they might run into a small child.

If you have such ridiculous expectations of behavior as some of the child-haters posting here or that restaurant manager at Applebees who started this whole debate, then YOU stay home! Or go to clubs in Midtown, the Ritz-Carlton or the symphony. There are millions of us with children or who empathize with those with children who will put up with some running, crying or laughing kids everywhere else, and it will be a lot more fun without you.

By erin

July 24, 2006 04:06 PM | Link to this

Laughing kids and those who are just being kids in appropriate settings isn´t a problem at all, to me (I don´t have kids … yet), but when a parent attempts discipline but doesn´t follow through on it? Now, THAT is a problem, because then you end up with parents who are trying, but the kids already know they can get away with murder, almost, in any public setting.

I worked in a grocery store for five years, so I´ve seen a lot of this. Parents stand in line. Kids whine for candy or gum or whatver doodad they see. Parent says no. Kid continues to whine. Parent gives in. Kid learns attempts at discipline, if they whine enough, never amount to anything.

And then, the same parents seriously wonder why their little angels act so badly and they can´t seem to stop it.

THAT is the part I have a problem with. WHY should it be such a problem for the parents to actually inconvenience themselves for a few minutes?

By Just Wondering

July 24, 2006 04:15 PM | Link to this

Theresa - I noticed that in your “p-ed off” rant, you mention NOTHING about how much time you spend disciplining your children!

By Nikita

July 24, 2006 04:15 PM | Link to this

Count me among those who dislike dealing with most children in public. Why? The reasons have been noted. And let’s be honest here — we’re all spending money here. I’ve saved my money, I plan to spend it, and I don’t plan to have it ruined — which is exactly what it will be if a child runs around screaming, collides with me, or otherwise invades the experience I am paying for in a disruptive manner. Which, unfortunately, they do fairly often.

It’s not about hating children, not appreciating the beauty of a child’s laugh, or any other silliness. It’s about refusing to have my hard-earned money ruined by inappropriate behavior.

By Sara

July 24, 2006 04:18 PM | Link to this

I think parents have a hard time noticing the differents between your child mis-behaving and being annoying. I carry ear plugs in my purse for the sole reason of out of control kids. Most recently, I was on a plane and 3 small children near me. They were not acting up, but rather just talking incessantly. I think it would be nice if when people are TRAPPED in a confined space with children, if we brought a good old fashion version of the “quiet game!”
I see kids doing things that my dad would have jerked a knot in my head for. Parents are getting so lazy, that I’m to the point where I asked to be seated away from kids in resturants and avoid them period.

STICKY HANDS!! STICKY HANDS!!

By Sara

July 24, 2006 04:19 PM | Link to this

I think parents have a hard time noticing the differents between your child mis-behaving and being annoying. I carry ear plugs in my purse for the sole reason of out of control kids. Most recently, I was on a plane and 3 small children near me. They were not acting up, but rather just talking incessantly. I think it would be nice if when people are TRAPPED in a confined space with children, if we brought out a good old fashion version of the “quiet game!”
I see kids doing things that my dad would have jerked a knot in my head for. Parents are getting so lazy, that I’m to the point where I asked to be seated away from kids in resturants and avoid them period.

STICKY HANDS!! STICKY HANDS!!

By itstheparents

July 24, 2006 04:26 PM | Link to this

Here’s a good case in point. A family had two kids. The older one was by far the mom’s favorite. Every time he had a problem in school, he got to go to a different school. He was smarter than everyone else and no one understood him. He was told this all of his life. The younger one just had to learn to deal with things. Things stayed this way. The older one never had to do chores, learn to deal with peers, or even have basic social skills. He was smarter than everyone else.

Three guesses who survives better in society now that Mommy is dead and both kids are adults? Guess who’s happier? It ain’t the smart one. That would be me. The one less gifted. Hmmm, or did I really come out better for all of that?

Sure, we all need to be considerate of each other. That also means teaching your kids consideration too. Teaching your kid that he/she is vastly superior and anything he/she does is wonderful can be pretty destructive too.

By ATLDUDE

July 24, 2006 04:33 PM | Link to this

Whatever lady! When I was a child I NEVER acted out in public or was obnoxious and my children NEVER are either. Myself and my kids were raised to know there is a time and a place for everything and my children were taught appropriate social behavior. It is VERY hard for them to control themselves sometimes but they work hard at it. That will make them better adults. I as the adult plan our family outings in a manner where I can get everything done and the children still have time to play run and sream at the park or at home…not in a public setting. This is a no brainer…it is not parenting skills it is preparing your children to be proper adults…I am a single dad who works 50 hours a week so we eat out regularly and my children often accompany me on errands…but they KNOW to control themselves and act respectfully…When we get home we all laugh play and get loud together…without offending anyone else!!!

By MOT

July 24, 2006 04:37 PM | Link to this

Two sides to the issue:

Yes there are many parents, no let’s make that “parents”, who for some reason had children but want nothing to do in raising them. Cases in point:

I just picked up my daughter from a babysitting job. The “parents” both work. They have a set of two year old twins, and a 6 year old. The mother never wanted to be a mom but did it for the husband, she loves her career and is never there, the father works too and is rarely there. This week, mom is in San Francisco, the dad out of town till midweek. They have a long list of teenage babysitters (which = NO consistancy or teaching of family values) that they use. They actually pay for one just for the twins and one just for the daughter and a friend to always be the daughters playmate. They pay these teens to spend the night when they are out of town and when they are in town because they don’t want to deal with kids during the night either!

Then there are the parents who don’t want to deal with their teenagers, our local theater/mall/restaurants are overflowing with pre-teen/early teens who were given a wad of money and dropped off for the evening. Hence groups of roving, rowdy, rude teens make date nights in our area so unpleasant we go elsewhere. There are literally easily a couple hundred. These pre-drivers are given brand new high end cars as soon as they can drive so then mommy and daddy don’t even have to drop them off anymore, they can drive themselves and a carload of friends. And are given more cash to finance their evenings.

Yes there are parents who won’t parent. It is never a child’s fault. In fact I would caution you readers who say they have no problem with saying something to the parents, I have seen some parents lash out at the kids, they end up being slapped or jerked by their arms, etc, in a very abusive way.

The other side to this issue are terribly selfish, arrogant, intolerant, impatient adults. I agree others should maintain control of their offspring through proper training and follow up, but there are those times that even the best parent can experience a loud, rude child (at which point that parent would remove them from the area). Not one of us would be hurt to extend some tolerance, patience, kindness in all areas of our lives. If you phone-hugging anti-kids folk get rude and disruptive with your converstations at the restaurant, you would want those around to be tolerant. It might not be kids, everyone has some sort of issue we need to be tolerant, empathtic towards.

Both sides having been presented, now there is that ever present fine line between the two. It takes finesse, grace, wisdom to find the fine line and how to walk it. We all have a long way to go.

That being said, having had ten children, whom I have flown with, eatten in restaurants with from the time they were new born, been in hotels, etc, and have received nothing but compliments for how well behaved they are (because we practice at home having quiet time for reading, quiet time for learning lessons, where they are exposed to how to converse with adults at the dinner table with friends we invite over—the home is the lab, not the public arena). I know it is entirely possible to have children enjoy a childhood, but still have structure and meet expectations for good behavior both in and out of the home. And these children grow up to become tolerant adults that can offer a listening ear to a bored child who wants to talk when a parent won’t pay them any attention.

Which brings me to my final point: you never know the effects you could have on a child in just being kind. Any child deserves that!

By luvs2teach

July 24, 2006 04:40 PM | Link to this

I usually read and comment on the “Get Schooled” blog, but I occasionally lurk over here if the topic interests me…

I’m surprised that no one mentioned the correlation between the topic on this blog, and the topic of “silent transitions” in school mentioned the other day in “Get Schooled.”

Part of why we have such a problem with proper hall behavior in school is because kids aren’t taught proper behavior in public. The world is NOT their playground!

My parents never took us to anywhere remotely considered “grown-up” (I was going to say “adult” but that has has a whole other meaning…) until we were old enough to act appropriately. We wanted to go to these places, so we learned to behave.

With my kids, we left them home with one of us while the other did things like grocery shopping - you need to respect when your child is tired or hungry or simply had enough and take them home regardless of whether YOU are through or not - that freedom, my friends, is one of the things you give up when you decide to bring a little one into the world.

I like kids - I have some; I teach them. But not all behavior in all places is “delightful.” Lest you think I don’t practice what I preach, my family still talks about the day he removed my son from the movie theatre and took him home because he wasn’t behaving - my daughter and I stayed to watch the movie (Jumanji - kids’ movie). I have also walked out of the store when my dughter throguh a fit (Sorry about the cart in the aisle, Kroger, but no one need to listen to THAT). She didn’t go with me again for a VERY long time.

I empathize with parents of an upset youngster, but I get irate when they ignore it, and I have to listen to something I wouldn’t put up with from my own kids.

By luvs2teach

July 24, 2006 04:42 PM | Link to this

Sorry about the typos - “He” removed (my husband - don’t want you all thikning my son stayed home by himself.

and my “daughter” “threw” a fit…

Love to teach - hate to type.

By dm

July 24, 2006 04:52 PM | Link to this

Great topic! I do have a child and have always taken him to museums, sit-down restaurants and plays. We set the tone for these events as ‘big boy’ places for his ‘best’ manners. We just prepare ourselves to leave early if need be. Occasionally, we do have to leave. It’s a great way to ‘train’ your kids on how to act. They feel important and respected for being given the chance. If we do leave no big deal. He’s 6 now and is able to mingle with adults or children. In fact, I’m taking him to a wedding in a week and he asked if he could get a tuxedo.

On another note, I don’t understand the nasty comments directed towards Theresa. If you dislike her and this blog so much, find something else to occupy your time with. She’s to be commended for hosting a blog with this much interaction, check out other blogs for further proof of her success. Great job Theresa, I spend more time here than I probably should;-)

By Aquagirl

July 24, 2006 04:53 PM | Link to this

Becky, do you mean venues should post a “no children under xx years” sign? I’m not snarking at you, but sounds more like common sense to me. After all, it seems like you considered not taking your three year old to a play because it didn’t make sense. It’s just not a place for a kid that age, and apparently it caused a disturbance bad enough for other adults to say so. B.S. hit the nail on the head (in his/her rambling) by saying there’s an issue about what should happen when families with young children (I’d disagree with two year olds—maybe four is more of a “reasoning” age) want to go someplace besides Chuck E. Cheese. Without flinging invectives or placing blame—that’s been done enough already—children cause major disturbances at random times. That’s the nature of children. Parents should take the brunt of that problem, not the general public. Sorry if you feel trapped in the house, but it’s plain rude to impose on others. There are zillions of places you can go that are child-friendly, in the sense of the child being comfortable. I don’t hate kids, I hate seeing kids who are miserable. I hate seeing adults who think they should do adult stuff (movies, sit down dining, plays that may even cost less than $100,whatever) with kids in tow because they want to do it, and damn the kids anyhow. And damn the other people in the establishment too! The parents are having their night out!

The last line of the AJC story said it all… “We want to have all the good things but not the sacrifice”. Truer words were never spoken.

By Nikki

July 24, 2006 04:54 PM | Link to this

Brats are not born.They are created by their parents. Some of today’s parents are doing a wonderful job creating bratty kids. I have kids. Mine learned right from wrong & good from bad at a very early age. Why all of a sudden is the way our parents raised us so wrong with alot of young parents today ?

By DadMania

July 24, 2006 05:05 PM | Link to this

I am an unmarried father of a regularly behaved 3 year old girl. I can only recall two incidences where I had to pack her up and take her out of a store/restaurant.

Let me preface my story with this, she doesn’t eat a lot and is the type of child to fill up on milk instead of food so I have to control her beverage intake while eating. The most recent episode of a tantrum happened to be Father’s Day this year, we are having breakfast and I just broke a bagel and cream cheese into pieces. Part for her, part for me.

Now remember she doesn’t eat much, well she wanted the larger piece which was more than half the bagel. I told her to eat her piece first then she could have more. That didn’t go over very well and she began screaming. I tried to calm her down and talk to her, well it just wasn’t happening, so after a minute or so I scooped her up along with coffee, milk, and food in one hand and her in the other and we left.

I am not going to let my child disrupt the entire store because she was tired, hungry, thirsty, etc. I believe most parents would do the same. I don’t believe parents in general would let their children become visibly upset and not doing anything about it.

By CLM

July 24, 2006 05:24 PM | Link to this

No matter where you go, there are “parents” who do not want to take the time or energy to correct their child’s behavior. These places include restaurants, movies, and stores. I actually had a Father tell me that putting limitations on his child’s behavior would stifle their creativity. I simply replied that the prisons are full of people who parents have that same viewpoint. He was shocked at my response.

So let me see…parents don’t want to take the time to discipline their children but they will be the first to file a law suite against the establishment if they precious child got hurt. The schools can’t give an earned failing grade because it will hurt the child’s self esteem. Gosh, no wonder their kids don’t want to leave home. Their precious little children are now adults who can’t make it in the work force because life does not revolve around them anymore.

I hope you folks with unmanageable children have good jobs with good salaries. You are going to need the good jobs because we don’t want your kids at the work place when they become adults.

By Ugh

July 24, 2006 05:32 PM | Link to this

Wow. It is absolutely every parent’s responsibility to make their kids behave their very best in public. If you set and enforce the expectations, the behavior will follow. You must set limits in your home and reinforce them consistently in public.

I’m a single parent of a 12yo boy. Very early, I set clear expectations and consequences. I can’t remember a single time he’s challenged me in public. He knows I will remove him from an environment in an instant. He’s not too big to have his bottom smacked. As a result, he’s a very independent and obedient child. His worst behaviors are at home, which is common. We’re told that children will behave the worst with the people they know won’t abandon them. I heartily believe that. He has a teenager tone right now that drives me nuts, for example. This summer, I brought him to work for a week because he had a class downtown. In the office he’d whisper instead of talking. I’m used to it, I thought nothing of it. He loves to come to work, I’ve brought him in occasionally at an early age, it’s fun to him. One of my peers started laughing and said ‘why he’s whispering?’ She just found it so funny. I explained that I must have taught him that years ago, when he had a “toddler/baby voice” because that sound in a workplace is unprofessional. I can happily say that my bosses and coworkers have never once complained about my kid. And, now that he’s older and can play pool with them, some of my coworkers really love it. The negative to all this is that he, at his young age, already has a very low tolerance for misbehaving children in school, public, his home, etc.

To get along in this world, you must be tolerant of many misbehaviors, attitudes, etc. The so-called “baby-haters” on this blog are speaking like overgrown children themselves. I already knew that his low tolerance was a problem, but the posters really reinforced that yes, we (son and I) need to continue working on it.

By SET

July 24, 2006 05:32 PM | Link to this

Most people don’t have a problem with children being children.

Most people do have a problem with children being Monkeys and chimping out. That goes for Kids 2 to 18. Behind every chimp kid there is a trashy no-account parent. I trade in stores and other places that keep these people out.

That’s why I don’t patronize anyplace that has a welfare clientele (among other things). No Wal-Mart and no discount stores. No affordable housing and no public schools. This country is fast dividing by class and never the twain shall meet.

Too bad about that upward mobility thing.

Brave New World.

By Ray

July 24, 2006 05:33 PM | Link to this

To all the moronic baffoons on here who appear to hate children: Newsflash…we are put on this earth to do three things…find a mate, procreate, and die. Having children is the norm, not vice versa. If they disturb your peaceful meal…too bad. Perhaps if the lot of you weren’t such hate-filled, self-centered goons, you’d understand. But then again, perhaps we don’t want you all procreating anyway.

By Me

July 24, 2006 05:45 PM | Link to this

People’s intolerance of children makes the baby Jesus cry.

Oh wait… now they’re going to be more annoyed because he’s crying… darn!

You intolerant adults really are funny… not “haha” funny, but more like “aww… George Bush went and did somethin’ else stupid” funny. Ha. Ha. Ha.

By That's Right!

July 24, 2006 05:47 PM | Link to this

I remember my attitudes before having kids and being annoyed that often times parents seemingly made no effort to control their kids who would run around playing tag in restaurants etc. I recall talking on the phone with friends who were moms only to hear screaming amplified through the phone, or constant interruptions by children for non-emergencies - like another popsicle etc. I also remember eating out while kids from the neighboring booth would hang over to our table and stare or make faces.

I think most importantly, I recall that from the youngest age I can remember, that my parents never allowed me to do any of these things. I remember screaming in a restaurant and my father taking me out immediately (out of respect for others) and punishing me so that I was less inclined to opt for that behavior in the future.

I am a mom and being one is as difficult a job as I’ve had. Its much easier to just let children live on a long leash. But by not adequately controlling children to behave in certain settings (movie theatre, restaurant, while you are on the phone) you are not only being hugely disrespectful to others, but you are teaching your children that their wants and desires should be fully exercised and expressed with no thought whatsoever to any resulting consequences to others. Think of the adult that child will grow into one day. And the way he will be recieved by others then - when you are not around to make excuses for his behavior!

By Ugh

July 24, 2006 05:47 PM | Link to this

Grocery shopping issues. I’ve never understand simple removal of kids in grocery stores. So many kids just don’t want to help with the chore of grocery shopping, they’re just getting their way. I know that’s my kid’s situation. He’d be gleeful if all it took was a tantrum to get out of shopping! Arrange an alternative so they don’t ruin your plans. The husband taking the kid out of the theater is a good idea, unless they just went home and watched tv or played games. My point, don’t remove them from the place they want to leave, put them in a happier place, and expect it’ll fix anything. And, if they whine at home about shopping, remind them of their whining when they want to go to the game store. One reminder and refusal to take him to the video game store worked Wonders for my kid!

By Aquagirl

July 24, 2006 05:48 PM | Link to this

Deep thought about the meaning of life, Ray. Caveman much? And you left out paying taxes. That’s a lot more certain than mating or reproducing.

By Jessalyn Anglin

July 24, 2006 06:23 PM | Link to this

momswithbackbones, no “wacky cough syrup” here. Can you clue me in to what part of what I said “sounded like one of the people just returning from Woodstock”? Was it the George Washington Carver quote? I wish I could claim those well thought out words as my own. I just recognized that the quote fit here. By the way, Carver died in 1943, so I think it is safe to say that his words came well before Woodstock. ;)

By Lisa

July 24, 2006 06:41 PM | Link to this

Parents have the responsibility to teach THEIR children RESPECT!!! Most of the kids I see today don’t even have respect for mom and dad. How can any of you really see them respecting the public? I have raised four children in my lifetime. At no time did I tolerate yelling, running around, or poor manors in a public place; we left said place if they could not follow those simple rules. They have all thanked me for that. Ages, 23,33,37,40. Oh by the way…I have two bonus children now (children from my husband’s previous marriage) 11 & 13. Those two have learned the same respect.

By penguinmom

July 24, 2006 06:44 PM | Link to this

For those who think leaving with your kid ends up rewarding them by giving them what they want; I always make sure that if we have to leave somewhere, the results are so unpleasant for the child that they never want to repeat it again. If your kids aren’t a little scared of the statement ‘If we have to leave, Mommy’s going to be seriously unhappy’, then you are being too nice to them.

I think it’s a parent’s responsibility to make sure that their kids are not seriously affecting others. However, it seems like there are some people in the world who think if they don’t have kids, they shouldn’t ever have to be bothered with them. That’s just not realistic. No parent can always predict when their child is going to suddenly decide to have a meltdown. Yes, it happens most often when they are tired but that’s not always the case. Sometimes, it just comes out of the blue. When that happens, the parent should be given at least a small amount of time to try to work out the situation before they are demonized.

The original article about the mom thrown out of a restaurant was about a family eating LUNCH at a MALL restaurant. Seriously, folks, if you’re expecting a quiet meal, lunchtime at a mall is not the place to do it.

Also, sometimes, you are almost done with grocery shopping (or eating) when the breakdown occurs. Yes, it’s unpleasant for everyone but it really makes no sense to leave a full grocery cart in the store instead of just trying to make it through a couple more minutes to check out.

Parents have the responsibility to control their children but other adults need to try to give a little bit of Southern grace to parents as they try. And parents need to be aware and accept criticism when it’s warranted.

By mm

July 24, 2006 07:11 PM | Link to this

Timely topic. Just today I thought about this issue when I read an article in today’s AJC about a 3 year old who died at a Walmart when a mirror fell and hit him. This was a tragic accident and do not think I am lacking in compassion for his family. However, I couldn’t help wondering in my mind if he was one of the many who are left free to run wildly around department stores playing hide and seek, tag, throwing balls etc. This is a clear example of another reason why it is important to have children under control in these environments.

By Mark

July 24, 2006 07:28 PM | Link to this

This is a topic Neal Boortz rants about quite often. Innocent laughter is one thing, but obnoxious behavior that goes unchecked by the parents is yet another.

I have the priviledge to watch two good friends raise children with their wives (ages 1-6 years). One set of parents does a “time out” every time one of their kids gets out of control. The other set of parents will pick the child up and pop his backside a couple of times (not hard) and tell him to go to his room. Off he goes wailing away.

Anybody want to take a guess as to which set of children are generally more well-behaved in a public environment or at home when guests are over?

The problem is that many parents today do not want to tackle the hardest part of being a parent: DISCLIPLINE. Is it any wonder today that we have drugs for kids today because society says said kids have attention issues? Please. Hardly any kid in a stable environment growing up in the 1970s on back didn’t know the meaning of a spanking.

But of course, when a kid goes awry, it’s “society’s fault and problem” and not that of the parents. That’s typical of today’s mentality: blame society and don’t take personal responsibility for anything.

By Michelle

July 24, 2006 07:29 PM | Link to this

*By John Oram

July 21, 2006 02:24 PM Oh wait… if you knew anything about self-control, you wouldn’t have reproduced.*

Too bad no one told your mother that.

By Auburn Annie

July 24, 2006 07:55 PM | Link to this

Blue Moon wrote: “Not long ago I was on a 2-hour flight, and a screaming kid was right behind me. He shrieked at the top of his lungs for the duration of the trip. Earphones did not help, either. And his mother did absolutely nothing to quiet him down. This brat disturbed a lot of other passengers as well. I do not think anyone should have to endure that.”

Including the mom - you don’t say how old this “brat” was but if s/he was an infant, the child may have been suffering from colic. Been there, done that. The only thing that settled our firstborn down was putting him up on the shoulder, tightly wrapped (the baby, not the shoulder) and bouncing up and down to Michael Jackson’s “Billie Jean” - I kid you not. Picture that, if you will, on your next flight. We went through 2 copies of the Thriller album until he outgrew it. Started at 6 weeks (the day I went back to work) and lasted about 2 months; he’d begin howling at 4 every afternoon like clockwork.

Now if this was an older child, the flight attendants should have said something to the mother, and/or - if available - offered you a seat elsewhere. A child that screams for 2 solid hours sounds either physicially ill or perhaps mentally disabled, maybe frightened. It does not sound like bad manners or general brattiness.

By Stephanie

July 25, 2006 07:21 AM | Link to this

Uhmmm, yes it is up to the parents to make sure their children behave in any setting. My 7 year old child has only had a few public mishaps in her life which I apparently handled quite well as they did not happen again. Never did she sream or make scenes in a restaurant, even now she is not permitted to be more than a foot from me as my biggest fear is a pervert abducting her, in close to 8 years she has had a total of 3 public instances in which she pitched fits, the last being at 5 years of age. Maybe she is an exceptional child but I found speaking to her in an adult manner and explaining why we don’t act certain ways or do certain things seemed to do the trick instead of the normal spanking or parents yelling NO and because I said so! The problem is that parents are A: afraid someone will call the authorities B: want to be their child’s friend, which I can add is still possible to an extent even when placing rules upon them and C: people are just popping out kids these days and honestly…they don’t take the time to get to know them as they grow, everyone has their own personality and you must accept your child’s and figure out the best way to avoid a clash so that you can both understand one another. My daughter makes comments now as to what we see from other kids in public, kids running up and down aisles, she asks uhh where are their parents? Kids playing outside and not a parent in sight is shocking to me as well, do these people think they are invincible, their child being kidnapped won’t happen to them? Parents it’s time to get off your butts and do something, I don’t care if you work all day and are tired, you chose to have the children and they come 1st, not T.V. and potato chips!

By Lyrazel

July 25, 2006 07:52 AM | Link to this

How do you teach children of parents who never became adults? As I get on in years I notice how few parents now tend to act or be grow up despite their having children! O I have been on the plane and sat through his mother diapering the baby then trying to pass the diaper to the attendant—who when it was not taken and told to dispose of it herself—put it in the seat pocket thus my flight was filled with the stench of her baby waste and wipes. Is THAT adult behavior? In contrast on another flight, I was seated next to a woman who was breast feeding and was completely appropriate with her demurely of covering herself and child while it suckled. Across the aisle at a window seat was a man who sat through the entire plane trip leering across the isle issuing rude comments about indecent exposure and the awful smell…comments so loud and abusive the young mother was in tears…was that adult behavior? See, I think the problem of unruly children comes from adults who have them who never have learned manners, civil public behavior, decent courtesy and responsibility.

By Lowell

July 25, 2006 07:56 AM | Link to this

As I near the empty nest stage of life, I understand that no parents are perfect and no children are perfect. Certainly parents should try to rein in the obnoxious behavioral excesses of children, but some kids are much harder to control than others for reasons known only to God. I’ve been on both ends of that experience. One of my kids always behaved well in public and the other frequently did not. Same parents, same raising, different neurological wiring.

But to complain about babies crying on airplanes is to complain that they are too young to have learned to equalize the pressure in their ears with changes in altitude.

Put on your earphones and enjoy the music the airline provides.

By Liz

July 25, 2006 08:35 AM | Link to this

I am sick and tired of people bringing their 7 and under children to our ‘adult’ service at church. There’s a fine child care/church school organized at the 9 o’clock service, but none at the 11, yet parents lug in their kids at the rate of at least two a service. The Episcopalian service is complicated and you have to pay attention to get through it. We sit, we stand, we sing, we speak, and sometimes it seems to go on forever. What possible good does a child get from the sermon? Why should I have to endure a child talking, rattling papers, crayoning sprawled out on the pew, diving under the pew, the parents ‘hush’ing him or her which gradually escalates in volume, and sometimes getting up (always from the middle of the aisle) and the disruption and distraction that ensues?? If I sit down and a child sits down near me, I get up and move. Church is no place for young children. Of course infants and younger children can’t control themselves. I’m not sure God can, either, because sometimes I’ll spend half the service praying that the kid’ll shut up - doesn’t work! My point is that it’s not the children’s fault - it’s the parents. Several times I’ve very nearly gone up to parents after a service and said listen, I’ll pay for you to hire a sitter, just leave your kid at home. When do the parent’s rights to drag their child hither and yon supercede my rights and the rights of 200 other adults? Tell you what, next time this happens, I WILL go up to the parents after the service and see what happens! It should be interesting.

By SJ

July 25, 2006 08:52 AM | Link to this

Well said Lyrazel! It is not the children at fault, it is the adults!

My children behave properly in public, yes, even planes, fine dining and museums! I take issue with putting age restrictions on many venues as suggested above. Why should well-behaved children be banned because of some who have not received the proper “training”? My now 10 year old, went through a screaming phase when he was about 2 1/2. It was not due to him being tired or hungry, he was just pushing his luck to see how far he could get…kids do that from time to time. We walked out of MANY restaurants, grocery stores, etc. during this “phase.” Did I have to finish my shopping at another time - absolutely! But so what! No one was going to starve and the shaving cream could wait. They do learn - but they learn through consistency and example. “We sit in a booth/on a chair, that means your bottom (or knees depending on their size) are on the seat, and you are facing forward! No kicking! We use inside voices, we sit at the table, we chew with our mouth shut, we say please and thank you, we hold doors for others, etc.” COMMON COURTESY — long ago my children joined the ranks of those mentioned above that are disgusted by other children’s behavior and the parents who ignore them. Do I worry they will become intolerant of children as they age - heck no, they will be intolerant of bad behavior…aren’t we all?

By jane ktison

July 25, 2006 08:55 AM | Link to this

WOW…this has sturred up quite a fuss…which, I suppose makes it a timely issue. I am the woman at the hotel with the children in the pool, referred to in the initial article by Virginia. I am wondering if some of you cannot see the theme here….we do not abhor children…we abhor parents who are not taking the responsibility to train their children. I love dogs but I am impatient with dogs who bark all the time and stop for a poop in my yard. I own a wonderful labrador retreiver who thinks he is a person and is known to hop up on the family room couch. I recognize that many out there would wince at this statement and thus when guests are over ( at my house) I keep a careful eye on him and also try to ascertain if the guests are dog lovers so that he will not annoy them. We tell everyone his middle name is PET ME and some find it funny …some do not…that is o.k.! Some will find your children’s antics cute and some will be offended…use your judgement. I too fly for business and am a Medallion flyer. We kept a busy bag for our children and always made our reservations during the time of day when they were at their best ( so to speak). I flew in a row with 2 children who were wacking each other with their seatbelts while their mother was snoring behind us….HELLO! I rang the flight attendant and we shared the reason why this was not appropriate. WHOSE RESPONSIBILITY WAS THAT? I took a flight to Portland Oregon and was right behind a well behaved 4 year old who stepped off into the jet way and loudly shared…WOW I AM SO GLAD TO BE HERE…NOW THAT WAS A LONG FLIGHT! These children are cute and we enjoy their company. Last week I was ( on a rare occasion) floating in my neighborhood pool with a book and a 7 year old was eyeing me suspiciously, he shared, ” it may not be such a good idea to read a book in the pool…” I laughed and said, “you are correct but I bought this book and I am on the last chapter…I hope I do not drop it…thanks for the tip!” This did not annoy me…it showed that he was being responsible. A few weeks ago I took my own teens out to breakfast. We winced when we saw a family with 4 children squeeze into the booth behind us. WOW the kids were GREAT! I mentioned this to both of my children and stopped to thank the parents and told them what darling children they had…they laughed and said, “so much for the rest of the day, now that you have told them how wonderful they are…hahaha!” Retract your claws parents and do your job! Parenting IS one of the hardest things we can do and with so many other things enticing us…it sometimes gets dropped to the bottom of the list. Thanks to those of you who have had the sense to rear delightful children….I enjoy them every day!

By Greg

July 25, 2006 08:59 AM | Link to this

Why do these parents insist on bringing their screaming kids to late night movies, and pretty much ruining the experience for everyone in the theater? I recently had my viewing of Superman interrupted, at the Mall of Georgia’s IMAX, by screaming kids. This was at a 10:30 showing. What was that parent thinking, bringing that kid to a late movie? Unbelievable. These are the same kids who will grow up to blabber loudly on their cell phones in movie theaters or in restaurants, because their parents have taught them nothing about respecting people around them.

By mem

July 25, 2006 09:00 AM | Link to this

Liz, I think you need to find another church—one that is full of old people and doesn’t like kids—in other words, a “dying” church. I have three young kids and my husband is a minister. Our kids have grown up in the church and 2 of them have accepted Christ. I started teaching them when they were itty bitty how to behave in church and in public. The problem with parents today is they think their precious progeny is sooooo cute when they are 2 years old—they let them throw their little fits, using the excuse that they will outgrow it—bull——! Take the time to teach them. Stop putting them in every sport imaginable, thinking this will teach them how to get along with people when they are older. Parents, take the TIME to be parents. And stop giving them every thing under the sun. And please, stop pushing them around in those huge honking Cadillac baby strollers that make us normal people have to move out of the way, while you young moms stare us down with a look of entitlement—grow up. My kids have not received a lot of stuff and they are happy, well adjusted kids. And the best part of being a parent is having people comment on how my kids are so well behaved.

By ATLDUDE

July 25, 2006 09:03 AM | Link to this

The kind of parents that allow their children to act out in public are the same kind of folks that don’t pick up after their dogs when they poo!

By mem

July 25, 2006 09:04 AM | Link to this

Liz, I think you need to find another church—one that is full of old people and doesn’t like kids—in other words, a “dying” church. I have three young kids and my husband is a minister. Our kids have grown up in the church and 2 of them have accepted Christ. I started teaching them when they were itty bitty how to behave in church and in public. The problem with parents today is they think their precious progeny is sooooo cute when they are 2 years old—they let them throw their little fits, using the excuse that they will outgrow it—bull——! Take the time to teach them. Stop putting them in every sport imaginable, thinking this will teach them how to get along with people when they are older. Parents, take the TIME to be parents. And stop giving them every thing under the sun. And please, stop pushing them around in those huge honking Cadillac baby strollers that make us normal people have to move out of the way, while you young moms stare us down with a look of entitlement—grow up. My kids have not received a lot of stuff and they are happy, well adjusted kids. And the best part of being a parent is having people comment on how my kids are so well behaved.

By Liz

July 25, 2006 09:14 AM | Link to this

Yeah, well, I thought I might get an ugly personal remark from some idiot. “mem” - I certainly don’t call your comments about me & my ‘dying’ church full of ‘old people’ particularly ‘Christian.’ Why - you can go to the DEVIL! You just couldn’t resist saying that you thought your church and your kids were more Christian than mine. You smug evangelicals make me sick to my stomach. You presume to know the mind of the Lord, and lady, that’s the first deadly sin,and I think you’ll answer for it. You call yourself a Christian? I attend a ‘dying’ church?? I love my church, and I love attending it. Your rude comments - and you just kept coming at it, didn’t you?! - were inappropriate to this blog. So we know you call yourself a Christian and you don’t know how to blog and you say your kids are well behaved. Hah. Well, I know enough!

By Smiley

July 25, 2006 09:18 AM | Link to this

As a parent it IS your responsibility to make sure that your child/children DO behave in public places. You are to raise your children to know how to act and respect their self as well as others.

I, too remember being a child. My parents would take us (six) to adult settings from time to time. We were to sit beside our Mom and if we needed to use the restroom, we went and came straight back (without interrupting the adults). It public we were to be respectable to others.

I have raised my two girls the same way. No running in stores, no loud talking and certainly no screaming. My youngest daughter was trying to act up in church one Sunday and I asked her did WE need to go outside, she wanted to know why, I told her there was no one out there to see her get a spanking.

It is just plain respect for other people, which the young kids today have absolutly none. The parent let them talk any way they want and totally ignore the fact that they are a bothersome to other people.

By SJ

July 25, 2006 09:28 AM | Link to this

Greg, while I agree with you in general about the late night movies and I often find myself wondering why young one’s are out so late! I have to remind myself - we aren’t all on the same schedule. My brother and his wife worked the third shift for years while their 3 kids were very young. Those kids followed their parents schedule and they were often out and about with Mom and Dad, when most of us would have thought it was way “past their bedtime!” Just food for thought! I’m not justifying the distruption during a movie though!

By jane kitson

July 25, 2006 09:37 AM | Link to this

O.K. LIZ take a deep breath. I think MEM is trying to say that a church where there are no children present is a dying church…NOT that the Episcopal Church is a dying church. This is why some churches are acommodating members with a contemporary service…not everyone enjoys the formal service but some feel comfortable in it as it was the way they were reared.
I AGREE with you Liz…when children’s services are provided…they should be utilized. We put both of our children in those services and they learned so much more than they would in the adult worship center and while I am at it…take a moment to THANK the VOLUNTEERS who watch over these toddlers while we are renewing our own spirit. They are the TRUE saints!

By Caesar

July 25, 2006 09:46 AM | Link to this

I can’t believe the head in the sand mentality you have displayed here. Constantly I have to see parents who disregard others when it comes to letting their children run wild. We have a 2 year old and actually take the time to parent and correct her. If she acts up, she is removed from the situation until she calms down. I hardly ever see parents that take the unruly child outside or to the car so as not to disrupt others. You should see the behavior of kids at church! The behaviors that are tolerated today by parents would NEVER have been accepted years ago. What we have now is a generation of kids being raised in day care centers instead of at home so Mom can be fulfilled. The when they get time with the kids they are too tired to PARENT. Parents of kids need to change their lifestyles, not plug kids into their adult activities. The majority don’t stay home to raise them and then want to just cart them around!

By cranky old fart

July 25, 2006 10:14 AM | Link to this

If one more of you Moms clip the back of my heels with your ginormous strollers ever again, I’m gonna smack you till you cry like your little brats.

If the brat’s on Dad’s shoulders and you’re pushing coats and treats, Dad gets a punching and you get some treats shoved up your nose too.

By cracky old fart

July 25, 2006 10:21 AM | Link to this

MEM,

If I ever meet you in public, you get slapped for free — no stroller needed.

God hate’s you and so does America.

Please leave.

By SJ

July 25, 2006 10:22 AM | Link to this

So Caeser its all Mom’s fault that children misbehave? Does your wife bring you your pipe and slippers every evening while you put your feet up and watch the tube?? Give me a break.

I agree there are many parents taking the easy way out and not properly teaching their children. But, your comment about daycares and Mom being fullfilled is out of touch with reality and old fashioned. We have a two income household (and it has nothing to do with me needing to be “fulfilled”), and yes, our kids spent some time in daycare when they were young but guess what?! We still managed to teach them proper behavior. Our lives still revolve(d) around them! We weren’t/aren’t lazy and we aren’t trying to be their best friends!!

Our kids are well behaved, straight A students who participate in extra curricular activities as well. Mom and/or Dad are at every game, every practice, every school program, every class party, we know every friend and every parent of every friend, we know every teacher, etc. Yes, we both work, but our children know they are number one!

The culprit is LAZY PARENTS (MOM AND DAD) and parents that are to busy being “friends” with their children instead of being their parent.

By chilegirl

July 25, 2006 10:35 AM | Link to this

“By Stephanie even now she is not permitted to be more than a foot from me as my biggest fear is a pervert abducting her, “

Stephanie, you’re sick, and instilling fear into your kid. Most children are abducted by someone who knows them. So if you don’t have any “perverts” in your family or friends, let your kid be a kid. If you’re that fearful, maybe you shouldn’t have taken the time to breed. Sheesh.

By SJ

July 25, 2006 10:49 AM | Link to this

Stephanie, don’t pay chilegirl any attention. We watch our kids like hawks as well. The last time I checked, perverts don’t wear a flashing neon sign.

By Nikita

July 25, 2006 11:26 AM | Link to this

They also usually are known to the child. So watching strangers like hawks is probably less useful than being cautious about unfettered access to your child by people he or she already knows.

By lynn

July 25, 2006 11:35 AM | Link to this

@Lowell, I’ve had the same experience. Out of 3 kids, 1 always wanted more attention and tended to misbehave. As a result she never got to attend the same functions at an early age as the other 2. I believe it was around 6 she noticed this and stopped being disrupting just to get attention. As I have sat here and read every comment made by child haters, it really saddens me. Don’t get me wrong, I’ll be the first to complain when children are being too unruly in public spaces but I would never feel the hatred that a lot of people are showing here. Children today are our future tomorrow. I can tolerate the little ones much better than I can tolerate the teenagers walking around with baggy pants, cursing every other word with a cigarette hanging out of their mouth and all in all acting like gansters. The same ones that scream about the childrens behavior on here are probably the first ones to call defacs when you give the little one a spank on the rear. One important thing that I did not notice addressed here is the parents that park their cars too close to another and let the little one sling the door open only to put a nice little dent in my car door. Please teach your children that another persons car is to be respected as well and thank you to the ones that do.

By mem

July 25, 2006 11:48 AM | Link to this

Liz, yes I was referring to a church w/out kids being a dying church and yes our church has its own church service for children. But, my children don’t like to go because it’s filled with bratty kids that are not the least bit interested in learning anything spriritual. While their yuppie parents sit in grownup church, they are running wild in the chapel and jumping on pews, not learning anything about reverence and respect.

By SJ

July 25, 2006 11:50 AM | Link to this

Nikita, to clarify, I didn’t say we watch strangers like hawks. I said we watch our kids like hawks. Very few people have unsupervised access to our children. Like I said, perverts don’t wear neon signs.

By Bonnie

July 25, 2006 12:59 PM | Link to this

I just finished having lunch with a friend. While we were at the restaurant, I noticed a woman watching her kids run around the restaurant playing tag, bumping into customers and wait staff. The kids then proceeded to lay on the floor and roll around.

Not once did Mom make any attempt to correct the behavior or control them; however she did make a comment about the horrible looks she was getting from other diners.

By DanGrantTx

July 25, 2006 02:23 PM | Link to this

Could you be more lazy or selfish when you do not discipline your children yourself? Why must you rely on others to do it for you?

You are teaching your kids that your convenience is far more important than courtesy and good manners.

Children have to learn to behave in society, and your whining about childfree people sounds more like you have some kind of obsession with them and you resent their freedom. You CHOSE to have children, and with that comes the responsibility to teach them how to behave and follow the rules of society. For those who call motherhood the most important job in the world, your ranting here suggests that your performance evaluation in that position would be a lousy one.

By ATLDUDE

July 25, 2006 02:57 PM | Link to this

MEM YOU ROCK! Liz check you “Tam” I think it is in sideways!

By NWNE

July 25, 2006 03:32 PM | Link to this

Newsflash…we are put on this earth to do three things…find a mate, procreate, and die.

Hmmm, soooo if that’s the only reason G-d put us on this Earth, then why did he make my wife infertile?

I mean really? Someone give me an explanation for that.

In my mind people with children are in one of two camps: Parents - being people who actually raise and disipline their children, with the understanding that they won’t be children forever

and, Breeders - people, who like rats, simply reproduce and then take no interest in their children.

The sad part of it is that the breeders are becoming more and more prevalent, while parents are becoming a dying breed.

This movement of being your kid’s friend is going to doom us much quicker than a declining birthrate.

NWNE

By mommyto2

July 25, 2006 04:55 PM | Link to this

i gotta say some of you people must not have kids.

i agree with MOT, just like everything else in the world, some parents do not discipline their children.

my two kids (3 and 21 months) say yes ma’am and yes sir, sit still during meals and understand that screaming and generally poor behavior is not tolerated.

having said that, they did not come out of the womb that way and it took a lot of time to get to this point. and we do still have good days and bad days. sometimes they just won’t behave. but they know the punishments and always receive them.

one last thing ironically these adults who are ” fed up with other peoples kids” are the same rude, foul mouthed, generally sour and irrating people that i am fed up with. i am sooo sick and tired of our societies “i’m entitled attitude”. from smart a* waiters to p** customers THIS IS WHY KIDS DON’T BEHAVE. they emulate what they see people! so smile, do something gasp nice for someone you don’t EVEN KNOW!!!! and learn to appreciate life!

By mommyto2

July 25, 2006 05:06 PM | Link to this

aqua girl, no kids huh? what you all need to do is ask YOUR parents if you ever acted like a little terd in public. i bet i can answer that one! and the fact that they probably DIDN’T “handle it” is why you all are such pathetic adults.

when did you get to decide if a person’s chilren are being raised properly? i hope to god your children (if he chose to let you have any) are the most mischevious little devils around. you will then see that it is not so easy!

By mm

July 25, 2006 05:32 PM | Link to this

Theresa,

May I ask why you deleted my first comment made yesterday around 8:30am? I would have emailed you directly to ask but don’t see how to do that.

By chilegirl

July 26, 2006 09:07 AM | Link to this

So, we’re all a bunch of kid-haters. How many times do we have to say, no, we’re bad parent haters. And hey, no one gives a good damn about your gods. Convenient excuse for your bad behavior. Worse than entitled parents are entitled xian parents.

By halp

July 26, 2006 11:02 AM | Link to this

Just to correct the statement that having children is “the norm”:

Reread the article. It clearly states that the most prevalent household today is single and childless. You might want to rethink acting so high and mighty; you never know when someone with leanings quite different from your own may get elected.

As for the rest of you calling people “child haters”, I can tell you that the vast majority of people who complain about children actually like them. For the most part, they hate the adults who don’t parent them or are in denial about how badly their children behave.

As for the notion of actually creating childfree places, just take a look at reality. Every time a kid gets kicked out of somewhere or some poor restaurant owner acts to protect their customers, “parents” get all up in arms, threaten to boycott, sue, scream discrimination, etc. Just refer back to the “A Taste of Heaven” cafe incident in the Chicago area last summer. You can’t have it both ways; if you don’t give adults the opportunity to experience quiet time without children, then expect them to complain. I see many more people asking to be placed away from children in restaurants and hotels now; expect the shunning to continue until poor parents start living up to their obligations.

halp

By Luna Sea

July 26, 2006 11:08 AM | Link to this

I do remember what it was like to be a kid and I never, ever behaved in any way like the monkeys I see out there today. I would have been eating my teeth for breakfast if I did. And I also remember the stares of hatred from adults (my parents mostly). The result: we stayed home. You breeders stay home too, because you obviously don’t get it. And yes, only stupid people breed, that’s why our population is getting dumber by the minute. Smart people quit having kids a generation ago. And BTW, you can keep your white trash Wal-Mart, I don’t shop there anyway. The world does not revolve around you and your dumb-as-a-box-of-rocks crotch nuggets.

By JL

July 26, 2006 03:02 PM | Link to this

Get a spine and actually respond to some of these posts Theresa. Its obvious that your slanted view is the minority, and that gasp kids should indeed be expected to behave in public. I’d love to hear how 75% of the responses are wrong….but that’d actually take some thought right?

When I was 3 years old my parents took me out to eat one night. I was making an @ss of myself, being loud and basically embarassing the sh1t out of them. My dad looked at me with a raised eyebrow and quietly asked “Do you want to go to the bathroom?” I laughed and replied with a smart@ss “Sure.” He took me to the bathroom and proceeded to beat my @ss to a nice shade of purplish blue.

After that he never even had to raise his voice again. I’d show my @ss in public and he’d look at me and quietly say “Do you want to go to the bathroom?” My response was usually a terrified “no” followed by some sniveling and then stone cold silence.

We NEVER acted up in public, no matter how tired or whiny we were. We learned to respect others, and how to eat with our elbows not on the table, our napkins in our laps, and to use the silverware from the outside in. We were taught please and thank you, respect for our elders and to generally not be spoiled little brats. It’s a miracle what actual parenting will do……..

Also, my bedtime was 8pm until I was halfway thru elementary school.

It all comes down to good parenting………not making excuses for your kids……

By valerie

July 26, 2006 03:37 PM | Link to this

I ride public transportation to/from work and I see unruly children every day. On Marta train yesterday, four children (the oldest may have been 6 or 7) where running back & forth between the seats and the mother said nothing to them. Not only is this disruptive to the other passengers, but they could hurt themselves. My parents taught me manners at home so I knew how to act when we went out. Also, my father is 6 foot 6 inches tall and all he had to do was give me one of his “looks” and I knew I was in trouble (my father did not hesitate to punish you in public).

We all need disipline in our lives, as children and adults. As previously stated, the problem is the parents, not the children. Children can only do what they are allowed to do.

By ouch

July 26, 2006 03:59 PM | Link to this

I remember one time in the grocery store I was begging for something & bugging the crap out of mom when all of a sudden I got this painful pinch right in that tender spot of the arm. It hurt so bad I could not even speak let alone cry. It had such an impact on me that I never wanted to go to the store again. Well I guess since it worked with me so well, I decided to do the same to my one roudy child when she was really acting up. Big mistake! She screamed so loud and yelled you pinched me, that everyone turned to look. Then she went on and on about how bad it hurt (with everyone looking) that I just had to pick her up and take her to the car. I was so embarassed from the stares I was getting but you can bet I took her home and gave her something other than a pinch. She never wanted to go to the store with me either :<)

By mommyto2

July 26, 2006 04:33 PM | Link to this

you are absolutely stupid if you honestly think that you never acted out in public as a child, and that my dear, is hilarious. as a matter of fact i am not stupid (according to the iq tests i was given as a gasp, sweet pea). also i find it very hard to believe you and your parents never left the house. you never went to a grocery store? or a movie as a child? i am sooooo sorry for you and your parents for what must have been a aweful childhood. eating your teeth? that sounds safe. i should punch my children in the mouth becuase they were not born adults with adult behavior? get over yourself. i will continue to take my children any place i damn want to. and they will continue to act appropriatly 99% of the time and the rest, well you can just deal with it.

and i assume based on you ignorant and nauseating breeding comment that you do not and will have children. thank GOD because anything that came from you would surely have horns!

again, i don’t not deny that there are unrulely children and that their parents are to blame, but the generalization that children are a pain and should be locked away is the most ludicrous thing i have ever heard.

i guess my point is my children’s happiness during their childhood AS WELL AS their growth into mature, kind, and respestful adults comes way before whiny 30 something strangers, who, had they enjoyed life a little more as children might be more pleasant adults.

By mommyto2

July 26, 2006 04:40 PM | Link to this

ps i do spank my little angels.

also if you read the first paragraph Theresa says there are places where children should be forced to remain quiet and calm. But the pool in a family oreinted subdivison, the mall and McDonald’s? please get real.

By JL

July 26, 2006 04:50 PM | Link to this

Mommyto2:

It’s nice to see you result to childish insults instead of responding in an intelligent and thoughtful manner. “Absolutely stupid”; well said……..

If you care to notice, I ended my spiel with “its up to the parents.” My father was in the military. He is a very good man, but was not tolerant of gross misbehavior. I never said that children should be locked away, I actually stated the contrary: because of my parents constant dedication to raising their children properly, we really didn’t act up in public. We really did have good manners and we enjoyed our childhoods immensely. We traveled Europe and the US thanks to him being in the military, and it was possible for everyone to enjoy our travels b/c of how well behaved my sister and I were (thanks to solid parenting.) I recall numerous compliments when I was a child to my parents about how well behaved my sister and I were. We probably chapped the bottoms of some of the “child haters”, but I would expect most anything would chap their collective @sses (birds chirping, sunshine, etc.)

Believe what you will about how we acted as children, but to see you refer to me as “absolutely stupid” illustrates how child-like your mentality really is.

Maybe your husband can post as “daddy to 3” b/c it sure sounds like he is taking care of 3 children………you being one of them.

By halp

July 26, 2006 04:57 PM | Link to this

mommyto2, your attitude is precisely what most of us complain about. Your children only misbehave 1 percent of the time? Suuurre.. (I think I smell the stench of denial)

As for “dealing with it”, you may find that those of us in the majority (single, unchilded households) may someday do exactly that - set about electing officials that will support bans on children, because you flatly refuse to control them.

As for your childrens’ happiness, well, I really do hope they have a happy childhood, but I also hope they learn the difference between outside, inside, adult and playground. Your refusal to consider the validity of any point of view other than your own (witness the “whiny 30 something strangers” comment) belies a mindset that is dismissive of anyone who dares complain about the behavior of your children.

Best of luck trying to be your childrens’ best friend!

halp

By mommyto2

July 26, 2006 05:00 PM | Link to this

sorry but the more i read the more i think of.

if you aren’t a breeder why post on a blog for parents? just seems a little stupid.

i was an extremely well behave child. my father took me to the fox from the time i was three on, i went to chastain regularly, and dinned at some of the most upscale resturants in metro atlanta and dunwoody. i do not ever remember showing my butt in public but i am smart enough to know that it surely happened. ironically i know for a fact that the three times in my life that my father ever spanked me were at home and i was 15 one of the three times.

By mommyto2

July 26, 2006 05:12 PM | Link to this

I never said you can’t complain about my children. i am and will be the first the recognize when their behavior is not as it should be.

i honestly get compliments on my childrens behavior from complete strangers. i am more dedicated to them than you could ever know. they really and truely behave most of the time. i honestly wish you could meet them so you can see what i mean. i do not put up with poor behavior from my children or my friends/family’s kids. i am know as the “mean” one yet the children love me. all i am asking for in return is a little patience from “non-breeders” when my children do get whiny and for my kids not to be lumped into a generalization of holy terrors just because they are kids!

i do apologize for my “stupid” comments. please understand that it is truely frustrating for me, as a mother who devotes her time to raising her children to have southern manners, to have people who have never “walked in my shoes” to pass judgement on me and my family based on the 15 minutes our lives may cross.

By Luna Sea

July 26, 2006 05:36 PM | Link to this

mommyto2:

Who the hell are you to talk about passing judgement?? Let me guess, “A Christian”, right?? How did I know…Nobody hates like the Xtians…

And yeah, childhood was hell for me and no my parents didn’t go anywhere with us, beacuse A. Dad was gone and B. Mom was severely disabled. And I did go to the store, yes I did, at the age of 9, walking a mile, to do what?? Bring home the damn groceries, that’s what, in my little backpack, with my little 9 year old feet pounding pavement in sometimes 110 degree heat. I also paid all the bills with a checking account in my name at the age of…guess??…12!, deposited into by my Dad with our child support money because my breeder MOO mother could not handle a red cent without misusing it and keep the damn phone and lights on. And yes I swallowed a tooth once for some imagined offence. And yes, I hated my parents to the core and danced a jig when mom finally died, thank DOG. And yes, I ran away at 17 and made my own life.

I really hope your kids are happy and I hope that you are too, and if not, I hope you have enough money for your own old age care, because your kids will not be doing it for you and I also hope you have enough cash for the therapy bills they will incur with a MOO like you for a mother. And while we are at it, I hope someone poisons you soon.

Yeah, I am bitter, about stupid people breeding and not thinking about WHY before they do it and what the consequences of their repoductive mistakes will be. The prisons and mental hosptials are full of these mistakes and until people really GET IT, none of this will ever change. You apparently, don’t get it.

By Luna Sea

July 26, 2006 06:04 PM | Link to this

And the reason the childfree are posting here, in my case at least, is one of my fellow alert CF buddies happened across this site and posted it on our Board, just to illustrate the MANY reasons (and perfectly so) why we are childfree and staying that way. And to anyone I offended with my snark, (except for mommyto2) sorry, but this issue really chaps me.

By Not volunteering, just suggesting...

July 26, 2006 07:47 PM | Link to this

I wonder if someone will figure out a way to run organized interventions in public — sort of a Supernanny outside of the home. Scene: nice restaurant. Three-year-old starts running amok while parents continue conversation, oblivious. The intervention squad is seated at a nearby booth, waiting for just such an opportunity. One member corrals the child, brings it to its seat and an on-the-spot parenting lesson is given to Mom, Dad, and friends. “We SIT in our seats. We do NOT run around. Mom, repeat after me: This is a restaurant, Scotty. We do not yell, and we do not throw our food. Got it? Is that so hard?” Other patrons get a free show, and the applause is almost as loud as the ruckus raised by the now-contrite child. Wouldn’t it be grand?

By Happy To Be Child-Free

July 27, 2006 01:31 PM | Link to this

The bottom line is this: parents should be PARENTS and teach their children how to behave when they are out in ANY public place. If your children are tired, cranky, etc., TAKE or KEEP them home and don’t put them in a situation where you know they’re going to pitch a fit. If they are misbehaving, REMOVE THEM from the situation and DISCIPLINE THEM! Parents should also have the common sense to know that while certain public places and situations allow children to be children, the rules of decent society still apply. Also, parents should know when to honor places and situations that are “adults-only” (remember this concept?). If you cannot afford a baby-sitter, you cannot afford to go out. If you do go out and are a parent of a child who is not yet toilet-trained, PLEASE bring extra supplies (diapers, wipes, etc) and PLEASE do not change your child’s diaper on a restaurant booth, an airplane seat, or on the floor of an airport gateway (yes, I’ve seen ALL of these)—DIAPERS ARE BIOHAZARDOUS WASTE and need to be handled as such. ‘Nuff said.

PS. Before anyone rants on the fact that I have identified myself as child-free with the excuse of “you don’t know because you’re not a parent”, why don’t you take that time that you’re going to blog to wail on me and spend it with your kid, teaching them how to behave.

By Happy To Be Child-Free

July 27, 2006 01:40 PM | Link to this

PS. To the earlier post regarding how France and Japan are in a crisis because they are experiencing slow or negative population growth and that it is our duty to have babies to keep the species going, that is the most irresponsible reason to have a child. If you look at their societies (along with those of most other European countries), their rationale for being RESPONSIBLE about having children is to preserve the precious supply of natural resources that their countries have and that it is expensive to raise children in these countries and their citizens are very aware of it. Therefore, they have very comprehensive sex education programs starting at an early age (typically age 5 in most European countries) with lower rates of teen pregnancy and lower rates of abortion than ours. Our country is nearing the 300 million mark and will be on to the 400 million mark shortly thereafter. One only needs to look at the current energy crisis in this country to stop and think that maybe we need to be more responsible about how many children we are having and how we are going to support them and maintain our natural resources. Whatever happened to the Zero Population Growth movement?!

By valerie

July 27, 2006 01:49 PM | Link to this

I agree with “happy to be child free”. Amen. I love children but I just chose not to have any of my own. And judging by what I have read in the previous comments,a lot of you should not have had any either.

By I care

July 27, 2006 03:31 PM | Link to this

@luna sea: I am so sorry that your childhood was like that. You are to be complimented for all that you did at a very young age. I hope you can find it in your heart to forgive your parents. Not for them, but for you. Hatred destroys only those who carry it around.

By jane kitson

July 27, 2006 04:39 PM | Link to this

Luna sea… I too am sorry for you bad memories of being a child. I wish you well as you try to piece your life back together. Please know that many of us have difficult memories but that there are wonderful people out there who do produce darling children; however, every child HAS IT’S MOMENTS!!! It is up to the parent to take the responsibilty and SO MANY ARE NOT DOING THIS. An interesting book I recommend and give as gifts to new parents: WHAT AMERICA’S TEACHERS WISH PARENTS KNEW by Judy and Tony Privett. Teachers spend more time with more children than anyone else and BELIEVE ME they can tell if the parents have a clue about what they are doing. ( some even dare to tell you at conferences but you are not listening). You will not find a public school teacher who can tell you this ( theyy tell it to me all the time) but most of the problems we have with children relate back to the parents: ATTITUDES, NUTRITION, LACK OF SLEEP, HYGIENE, STUDY HABITS ( you must set a pattern and make them study MOST are not dying to do homework), MANNERS AND RESPECT for authority. To those of you who choose to do as you please and ignore the suggestion of repsonsible parenting…KNOW that your child will be talked about in the teacher’s room and out on the playground with a WHAT ARE THOSE PARENTS THINKING? Suit yourself! Read the book and save setting your child up for discussion…it is a timely book with practical tips. There is something in this book for EVERYONE TO LEARN.
To: Not Volunteering…your idea is incredible…I LOVE IT. I have watched Supernanny Twice and am amazed at how ridiculous these parents are…perhaps some on this blog would be well served to check the show out.
BOTTOM LINE…these are your children but they will eventually have to function in public and if you do not give them some guidelines you/they will eventually be embarassed and or ridiculed by others…suit yourselves.

Re: Mommy2mommy

The pool was NOT a neighborhood pool….it was at the hotel I stayed at in Lake City Florida. The management told me they do their best not to book small fry sporting venues (wonder why) but that you have a right to book online and they have no idea who is booking what….they just wanted them OUT.

Finally…this is my husband’s 2 cents worth…. Remember when smokers Ho Hummed the idea that second hand smoke was an issue at restaurants….no biggie…well now we do have NON smoking in Gwinnett. Perhaps their could be a “children under 10” section in restaurants…just a thought!.

By ouch

July 27, 2006 04:51 PM | Link to this

@luna sea, sounds like she got what she deserved to me. Anyone that could talk about their mother like that should be shot at close range, and from reading her background and verbage, she probably will be. Luna…go f yourself you stupid b***!

By nikki

July 28, 2006 10:28 AM | Link to this

@ouch - you sound a little bitter too you know. She did not get what she deserved. She had to be the parent when she should have been a kid. Don’t judge her, because you sound like you have a few issues too.

By ouch

July 28, 2006 11:01 AM | Link to this

@nikki, no I don’t have anger problem or any other issues. I also had a tough time growing up, working by 13 & married at 15, but I would never make such comments like she did. The way I grew up made me what I am today, which is a successful business woman with a very loving family. I turned being poor into a learning experience rather than blame everyone else, which seems to be what luna sea has done. I lost my mother to cancer while she was still very young and that loss had a big impact on me. When she said that about her mother…it really ticked me off at the time. I hate to see anyone have to go through what she did, but guess what? A lot of people have and will have to go through that. It’s all in what you make of it and what you learn from it.

By nikki

July 28, 2006 11:09 AM | Link to this

@ouch - good for you but some parents are mean and uncaring and not everybody gets it. It doesn’t give you the right to jude and be vulgar

By Rap

July 28, 2006 01:26 PM | Link to this

You know, the problem is not that people hate children in public. It’s that parents consider their children sacred cows when it comes to anyone correcting their kids other than them.

If I am in a public place, say a bookstore, and your cute and adorable four year old comes up and grabs the book I am thumbing thru, ripping pages as he does so and then flings the book to the ground, laughing when I say “stop it!” - and yes, this has happened - I have no power. If I yell at your child, I’m a child hater. If I grab your child by the hand and take him to the store manager (and you are no where to be seen) I am accused of “laying hands on a child” and maybe being a pervert.

If your child comes up to my table in a nice resteraunt and spits - and yes this has happened - I am not allowed to discipline your child. Parents whine that it takes a village and children are our future, but why am I not allowed any input when your child misbehaves? Oh right - I’m the big meanie who hates kids. In the spitting incident? I demanded the manager deal with it, and the mother - who was sitting with friends on the other side of the resteraunt, was horrified that someone dared tell her that her six year old child (aka old enough to know better than to spit in a resteraunt) had to remain seated at their table for the rest of the meal or else they could leave. And we’re not talking McDonalds - this was a nice, rather expensive seafood place - so yes, I have a reasonable expectation that my table won’t be spit on but to this woman? I am a meanie who hates kids.

And I am tired of it. I don’t hate children. I’m just tired of having to put up with badly behaved children. I have no rights in a public place when it comes to your children. I can’t speak to them or touch them or do anything without a parent getting nasty and defensive or playing the ” you have NO RIGHT ” card. I currently have no children. If being in a public place means I have to deal with them, I understand that. I’m not unreasonable. A crying kid on the airplane? If the parents are trying, then it sucks but it happens. If the parents are letting jr kick my seat after I asked them not to? They are rude. If I am in a nice resteraunt and there’s a table with kids being a little loud but everyone is seated and it’s just kids chittering too much? Oh well - especially if the parents are trying, because it IS hard and kids don’t learn if they aren’t out in public. But the second jr is running around the resteraunt playing tag is the second I get ticked off.

Especially since Mom and Dad will complain mightily if Jr gets hit by a hot plate while he is playing keep away in the bar.

By Katherine

July 28, 2006 02:39 PM | Link to this

Theresa and others are missing the point. We do not hate children who behave and act proper and classy, it’s the ones who do not behave AND the low-life parents who do the same by ignoring the behavior and refusing to do anything. For example, Becky removed her daughter from the play when she became loud instead of just ignoring her. That is what needs to happen EVERY TIME!

Thanks to the poster who mentioned the little boy being killed by the mirror. I hope all parents who let their kids run wild will straighten up after this. Maybe we should start charging parents with child endangerment if their children are running around unsupervised in a dangerous area where things could fall or a restaurant where someone could drop something or be tripped.

By Lynn

July 28, 2006 03:57 PM | Link to this

Katherine, I agree to holding the parents responsible if the child gets hurt due to the parents neglecting to supervise them, but I’m sure we’ll be reading about the 10 billion dollar lawsuit against Walmart in the AJC soon.

By Sheila

August 2, 2006 12:33 PM | Link to this

<>

Oh yes it is your responsibility. It’s called being a parent.