Get on the Bus

By Rich

August 3, 2008 10:51 PM | Link to this

Uh, NO, I am the “Rich” who’d complained about e-mail addresses several weeks ago (and, as usual, never got a response from anyone at DDN). I haven’t posted anything recently, if it’s really of interest to you, “Davidss2”. Why did my question seem to set off people anyway? All I wanted to know was why DDN lays out rules to participate on these blogs, then doesn’t enforce them. Not a hard question to understand, or answer, to my mind.

By Davidss2

July 25, 2008 9:46 PM | Link to this

Is this the same Rich that was complaining about email addresses? You’re using a different one than your other posts… The religious, right folks want things their way no matter what damage they do to the kids in the schools. Look at the college athlete friend of Huested who was running 3 charter schools and had to resign! Oh his wife was on the payroll too. And who knows how many other friends. As for Reagan being their boss, I recall when Reagan campaigned on the west side of Cincy pandering to the parochial school folks promising to give them payment for their choice of religious schools at taxpayer expense. Are we there yet?

By Rick

July 25, 2008 12:35 PM | Link to this

Finn made some good points about the State of Ohio. However, all the socialists on this blog want to attack him personally. James is the worst example when he states: Chester Finn and his old boss, former Secretary of Education William Bennett are both responsible for distroying (sic) the lives of thousands of poor African-American and White children and their communities with their cruel Charter School experiment. [Oh, really? As someone else has pointed out in this blogs, the suburban schools do well because of the parents in spite of a bad system. No, the poor results by poor students mostly relate to bad parents.]… Now after a decade of trying to distroy (sic) the public education system while getting filthy rich with Ohio�s public education money, they are blaming the children and the legislative system that they have owned for not giving them more money and fewer constraints. [Please tell us how Chester Finn got filthy rich off Ohio’s public education money. How much money did they get? Be specific.)Go figure, more money. Public schools would have more money if Checker and Bill weren�t stealing $500 plus million a year for their charter schools. [Stealing? That is a criminal act. You are making a false charge.] they are rich and they both worked for President Reagan once upon a time. That does make them an expert, doesn�t it???

By Mary

July 25, 2008 7:48 AM | Link to this

Thanks for the examples, old prof. Another example is in this morning’s Dayton Daily News. The Wright State basketball coach just had his salary increased 22% to around $365,000 a year. I wonder how many professors make that kind of money. I will bet the Wright State “basketball program” does not pay for itself either since Wright State subsidizes its athletics department with millions of dollars each year. That money does not come from the tooth fairy. Why college presidents and trustees think their job is playing sports moguls with tax dollars and student fees, then get away with it, is beyond me. Our education system is very corrupt to allow these situations.

By Davidss2

July 25, 2008 7:47 AM | Link to this

Someone needs to do a thorough accounting of a few college athletics programs in terms of the cost in all the hidden methods in all the money it takes away from the real job, education. Just look at today’s editorial about trotwood’s minor cheating at athletics; which is more important, athletics or academics? Changing grades by pressuring teachers—naaah, that could never happen NOT. Some schoos just change the grades on school records without pressuring the teacher. Look at how dayton has kept athletics despite being in dire staits, and they did it at the detriment of the rest of the kids’ education because it meant fewer teachers—BUT we have that all important athletics and coaches and athletic directors for all their extra pay scale. They may be doing better than the superintendent pay when it’s all totalled. AND dayton didn’t have to give up Welcome Stadium; they can even spend more money on it during this year!!! New turf anyone?

By Oldprof

July 24, 2008 9:28 PM | Link to this

While it may be true that “OSU football pays for itself”, it’s far from clear that it’s beneficial to the state. No less a resource than Sports Illustrated has analyzed college football, and noted (a) creative accounting—for example, not making the football program responsible for costs of the coliseum that’s used maybe 12 times a year (b) false claims about alumni—colleges with no football get more contributions from alums than those that do (c) the big picture—while OSU just might make a real profit from football, OU, UC, Akron, BG, Miami, Toledo, Youngstown, etc. LOSE money. And OSU doesn’t have the same profit margin if the other programs dry up and blow away. The bottom line on college football for the state of Ohio is that it loses money, all institutions considered.

By mackinac

July 24, 2008 8:07 AM | Link to this

Gordon Gee (AKA GEEK) is the typical Ivory Tower Academic Egghead. Compared with other education systems, Ohio’s is “poorer, older, and dumber.” That includes his beloved OSU. Gee also seems to think that in criticizing Carson Palmers comments about OSU football, he speaks for all Ohioans saying that “we are all Buckeye fans on Saturday.” BALONEY. Ohio’s education system is pitiful-being micromanaged by a bunch of political hacks in Columbus. We are the Mississippi of the Midwest when it comes to quality of education. That is why private, parochial, and charter schools THRIVE here. It is all about CHOICE!

By School Supporter

July 24, 2008 8:07 AM | Link to this

Vanderbilt recruited Gee as president allegedly by offering Gee’s wife a tenured position similar to that earlier held at Vanderbilt by Finn. It would be interesting to compare their relative contributions as faculty in “Education and Public Policy.” Even better: How does OSU stack up against Fordham Foundation? the latter’s publication list is here: http://www.edexcellence.net/publications/index.cfm?start=1&topic=0 and includes “Too Good to Last: The True Story of Reading First.” So which organization has contributed most to Dayton schoolchildren achieving the “fourth grade guarantee,” Fordham or OSU (just an honest question…).

By Mary

July 24, 2008 7:54 AM | Link to this

ohdave, are you saying football has nothing to do with education? Is that blasphemy? But, then why do educational institutions and their leaders (such as Gee) invest so much time and money in sports, particularly football when it comes to facilities, scholarships, and staff? The problem is not that I am off topic - educational institutions are. At major universities increases in spending in athletics departments have outpaced spending in all other departments. (USA Today had a cover story about this a year or two ago, and as I recall, OSU has one of the largest athletics budgets.) This has a lot to do with the leadership and educational results topic, the money, the issues and the problems than you seem to want to know or admit. These priorities and investments have a ripple effect on K-12, our entire education system, our knowhow and our culture.

By James

July 23, 2008 11:34 PM | Link to this

Chester Finn and his old boss, former Secretary of Education William Bennett are both responsible for distroying the lives of thousands of poor African-American and White children and their communities with their cruel Charter School experiment. They took advantage of ignorant parents who simply wanted the best for their child. Now after a decade of trying to distroy the public education system while getting filthy rich with Ohio’s public education money, they are blaming the children and the legislative system that they have owned for not giving them more money and fewer constraints. Go figure, more money. Public schools would have more money if Checker and Bill weren’t stealing $500 plus million a year for their charter schools. Of course they are educational experts…. they are rich and they both worked for President Reagan once upon a time. That does make them an expert, doesn’t it???

By ohdave

July 23, 2008 11:22 PM | Link to this

Mary, you’re giving us a red herring.OSU football has nothing to do with this issue. Stick to the topic.

By Mary

July 23, 2008 10:55 PM | Link to this

If OSU football pays for itself, how come the state forked over millions of dollars to help refurbish the Horseshoe a few years back. The “creative” accounting of sports in college is a known problem even within the NCAA, which is trying to come up with some standard ways of accounting. For example, in a New York Times report a few years ago, the tens of thousands of dollars cost of detergent to wash football uniforms and pay launderers at one university were accounted under general funds. Who pays for all the toilets flushing during the OSU games? Who pays for the tutors and multimillion dollar lawsuits over coach firings? Student fees are used to subsidize athletics facilities and other costs at most colleges. General students are given no choices for these extra fees. Then there are the education tax breaks given to those who contribute to athletics departments that deplete tax revenues that could be used for real educational purposes.

By Scott Elliott

July 23, 2008 10:39 PM | Link to this

Checker is a nickname. That’s what he goes by.

By Vaughn

July 23, 2008 8:26 PM | Link to this

Mary, OSU does not spend one dime on OSU Football. As a matter of fact, the OSU Athletic Department has been self supporting for over 60 years. The football program is also the cash cow that supports most of the sports teams except for Men’s Basketball which is self-supporting. That means OSU football helps pay for the education and extra-curricular activities of more than 800 student athletes. That’s exctly why Dr. Gee is busy schmoozing on football Saturdays.

By Bill

July 23, 2008 8:24 PM | Link to this

Mary, I am quite sure OSU gets back hundreds of thousands of dollars on each of their 85 football players each year. Comparing expenditures on them to expenditures on teaching students without considering the enormous income the football program brings the university is ignorant and uninformed. The football program is also a huge PR and recruiting mechanism which serves the university well. Gordon Gee is in a very difficult role that incorporates economic and academic stewardship of The Ohio State University and his interest in the football program is genuine and appropriate for his leadership role in campus affairs - get off your high horse!

By Jg

July 23, 2008 5:38 PM | Link to this

OSU had no tuition hike this year, is a top 10 research school and its athletic program not only funds itself but donated 5 million dollars to the university’s main library rebuild recently.

By Corey

July 23, 2008 5:26 PM | Link to this

Actually, OSU football pays for OSU football, no general fund money is ever used on sports. The revenue generated from OSU football pays for practically all other OSU sports.

By Larry

July 23, 2008 4:43 PM | Link to this

How did Chester Finn’s first name get changed to “Checker”? Does someone need a remedial reading instruction?

By Kory

July 23, 2008 4:36 PM | Link to this

Do you realize the 10’s of million dollars the football team brings in every season. It would be absurd for an OSU president, whose chief obligation is fundraising, to not allocate the funds the way he does. Gordon Gee is a phenomenal administrator with a resume that speaks for itself. No academic substance? You might want to look at the admissions standards these days.

By Mary

July 23, 2008 3:01 PM | Link to this

So, where is Gordon Gee’s take on things? Where are his excuses for college presidents, the cost of tuition, and the quality of the education system? As another Wall Street Journal article pointed out (and was mentioned in a DL Stewart/Dayton Daily News article), OSU spends three times as much on its football players as it does on its students studying education. How does OSU enhance the image and substance of Ohio intellect and knowhow? What does Gordon Gee do in addition to schmoozing with other self important people during OSU football games? At least Checker Finn will not be accused of being a cheerleader holding OSU pompoms. To his credit, Gee supposedly tried to reign in athletics at Vanderbilt by doing away with athletics as a separate department. Maybe he should tell us about that and if he accomplished any improvements in education and costs because of that restructuring.