Get on the Bus

By Mary

July 17, 2008 6:37 PM | Link to this

Laura, I thought in the past many blogs ago, that I had pointed out I did work as a sub for a year and a half until I decided to drive my youngest to college classes after eighth grade. I have four sisters in or retired from the education field. Both of my grandmothers were teachers. We have all tried to do our part. Stirring the pot seems to be my specialty. I am not a politician who tells people (who complain about politicians telling them what they want to hear) what they want to hear. And yes, when asked, I even ran for school board as part of a team. We lost to incumbents who have gloriously perpetuated the incompetence of school boards and are trying for the third time to get a levy passed. It is difficult to fix a broken system when those in power do not admit the system is broken to themselves or to the public.

By Mary

July 17, 2008 12:32 PM | Link to this

Terri, why shouldn’t I constantly bring up sports when the topic is so intertwined with education financially and otherwise. Why is it so many educators place so much importance on scores and competition in sports, but argue against scores and competition in academics. I know about PSAT and National Merit. One of my children was in one of the several awarded categories of National Merit scholars based on scores. I actually have concerns about that test rewarding speed and drill more than intellect and challenge. That would be my complaint about standardized tests - how they are constructed, whether or not they are valid, and when they are given.

By Laura

July 17, 2008 10:36 AM | Link to this

Mary: You have such disdain for educators and public education in general. You also remind us frequently that you and your children are gifted. If you feel that the youth of America are being so poorly educated, why didn’t you become an educator to be part of the solution? Did you encourage your children to become educators? You seem to have read all the books that point out exactly what is wrong with our schools, so why don’t you, even at this point in your life, become part of the solution? The schools would be thrilled to have someone of your background and expertise enter the teaching field full time, as a substitute or even a volunteer. With your background and desire to read all you can about the failures of America’s schools why aren’t you on the local or state school board?

By Terri

July 16, 2008 10:25 PM | Link to this

P.S. Mary - You had my hopes up - three comments that didn’t bring up sports - but you broke the string with the last one.

By Terri

July 16, 2008 10:21 PM | Link to this

Mary - “many” people in eduation are not against standardized testing. We just want them to be used the way they are intended - to allow teachers to assess where students are in the beginning and then assess their growth at the end. (value-added)We do not want ONE test to determine anyone’s fate - the OGT. At the very least I would like to actually have the entire year to present material to my 10th graders not 3/4 of the year as I currently do. BTW - gateway test for National Merit is the PSAT given to Juniors.

By Mary

July 16, 2008 5:26 PM | Link to this

Terri, I don’t know what “hypothesis” you think is false. The book, “Cheating our kids- how politics and greed ruin education” pointed out studies that show that people, in general, who enter the education field have lower standardized test scores than college students entering other fields. There are, of course, many exceptions, such as yourself, as well as many exceptions among students (many gifted students in 6th grade have similar SAT scores to yours and are not allowed to test for National Merit). It is interesting to note how “against standardized tests” many people in the education field are. Could it be in general, they have problems with standardized tests and mental abilities and to cope, try to put down standardized tests and the intelligence of students with higher scores and mental abilities. That has been my experience as a parent. Of course, there are some intelligent teachers who get it and support these students, but not very many. Mrs K, I am almost twice your age. My oldest is almost your age. You did not mention your field or level at Wright State, but I know of classes at Wright State and many other state universities in the hundreds. The main point of the book “Beer and Circus - how big time sports is crippling undergraduate education” is that expenditures on sports, as at Wright State which subsidizes its athletics department in the $ millions each year, causes an increase in class sizes and lack of funds for academic needs. On another education related “blog” I am on, there is a recent entry about the problems several Ivy League colleges have been contending with their grad student taught writing classes and what they have had to do to try and overhaul their curriculum. One of the schools mentioned is Princeton. A former president of Princeton co-wrote the book “The Game of Life” which essentially validated the same issues in “Beer and Circus”.

By Mrs. K

July 16, 2008 2:38 PM | Link to this

Mary, I would respectfully disagree with you. I am a 30 year old mother of 3 currently going to college. I have better things to do with my time and money than to hand in busy work, cheat and humor my instructors. I am continually challenged and stretched in my classes. Wright State is full of great professors, I have had a few duds but overall they are wonderful. I have had no trouble at all with contacting profs outside of class and have not had one class taught by a TA or grad student. By the way, do your children’s teachers know how brilliant you think they aren’t? Sounds like all the teachers and profs you’ve had have been sub par. I’m sorry for your loss.

By Mrs. K

July 15, 2008 10:40 PM | Link to this

Mary, I have to respectfully disagree with you. I am 30 years old, a mother of 3 and am currently in college. I am continually stretched and challenged in all of my classes. Wright State has plenty of brilliant professors, Nancy Mack and Carol Loranger are both a wealth of knowledge. I have been very pleased with the accessibility of my professors and also the willingness of even the most difficult profs to make themselves available outside of the class. Trust me, at this point in my life I have no time or interest in paying thousands of dollars to do “busy work” or humor a professor. I’m sorry that your experience with higher education was sub par. As for the ACT and SAT I do not believe they are necessary or a good indicator of what people are capable of accomplishing. Taking and achieving a high score on a test doesn’t equal maturity and the ability to study and comprehend difficult material. Perhaps you should let your children’s teachers know how brilliant you think they aren’t. Thank them for their countless hours of underpaid hard work while you’re at it.

By Terri

July 15, 2008 10:09 PM | Link to this

Mary - I am the one necessary counterexample needed to prove your hypothesis false. I scored a 1290 on my SAT and a 33 on my ACT and was a National Merit Scholar. I was actually PAID to go to college - UD as a matter of fact -for my academic record not sports talent. I am a teacher. A National Board Teacher. Working in DPS. I’m doing so not because of the pay check but because I want to see students succeed.

By Mary

July 15, 2008 9:49 PM | Link to this

Nice spin, old prof. How do you look in your cheerleading skirt and pompoms? Do they issue them now for professors? The idea American Universities are so well respected is self-serving marketing spin. If U.S. universities were doing such a good job for its citizens, why do these universities rely so heavily on foreign students to fill advanced degree programs in science and engineering? I would assume many of these foreign students are attracted to the relatively high standard of living and high paying jobs here which they have easier access to through student visas. Our country has been coasting on its past achievements for so long, so many do not recognize we are riding the roller coaster downhill.

By Oldprof

July 15, 2008 2:24 PM | Link to this

Wow Mary. How long has it been since you had a clue about higher education in the USA? The majority of students, including over 60% of freshmen, are at community colleges—the places with no grad. assistants and faculty who are rated as quite accessible to students. But let that go; higher education in the USA is respected worldwide, we produce more Nobel laureates, more patents, more new technologies per capita than any nation. In the future, Mary, you might want to restrict your snarky comments to high school sports and other areas where you have accurate knowledge.

By Mary

July 15, 2008 12:42 PM | Link to this

oldprof, an even simpler solution would be to do away with colleges and professors. Think how much money and debt would be saved. Quit pretending students are getting a real education in today’s college environment with hundreds of students to a class and an unreachable professor or grad student. That is why high scoring and intelligent students mentally drop out. They know many of their professors don’t know squat and hand out As and Bs like candy to keep the money flowing into the institution, their own job security and paycheck. Now why do suppose high SAT/ACT scores would predict a weak performance in college? Could it be because the lowest scoring students go into the education field and become teachers and professors and come up with their own crappy tests. The college environment and high school environment are like two peas in a pod - humor the instructors, turn in busy work, cheat but smile at the instructor, and you are deemed a genius. Professor and teacher tests are so much more objective- ha! Just ask them.

By Muriel

July 15, 2008 11:43 AM | Link to this

I agree with Oldprof. Anymore, schools don’t teach kids things they actually need to know in the first place. They teach them how to pass tests. Be it the SAT, ACT or worse yet, the proficiency tests. No common sense is learned because they are so concerned with how the results of the test taking will look on the school. News flash: A person’s intelligence often has nothing to do with how well they take tests. Some people just aren’t good at test-taking (especially when it’s so over-emphasized) and it’s not a good judge of how well someone would do in college if they don’t do well on a test.

By Mary

July 15, 2008 8:09 AM | Link to this

“required”, no. Just exercise some integrity and ethics and do it without being “required”. I think a lot of the security issues might depend on the local hires administering the tests. It appears as if all any one cares about anymore is collecting the paycheck or keeping the revenue stream going. Integrity of processes and character or ethics are not even on the radar screen. This type of malaise will topple us all and bite us all on the butt. I recall an article about how people in med school see no problem with cheating. There appears to be a lack of integrity and ethics in all our bureaucratic systems, not just testing. There are differences between capitalism, paying the bills and rampant greed and disorder. We are in the rampant greed and disorder phase. Conspiracy books imply some want greed and disorder and see ways to profit from the chaos and disintegration of our culture. I am beginning to think they are spot on.

By Oldprof

July 15, 2008 7:42 AM | Link to this

No, there’s a simpler solution. Colleges and universities should abandon SAT and ACT, two expensive tests which predict only weakly how well a student will do, and only during the student’s first year.