Dayton Daily News education reporter Scott Elliott writes about schools, kids, teaching and learning.
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Flunking at school? Get banned from fun
The New York Times has an interesting story today about a trend in some suburban districts to ban kids from all activities and sports when their grades slip.
This is a controversial idea. Some believe it is activities — whether a sport, an instrument or a club — that helps engage some kids in school. I know many coaches who swear that they know kids who would have flunked out except that they wanted so badly to play football or basketball. Staying eligible for sports motivated them to do enough to graduate.
But others see the low bar many districts set to earn participation in activities — some area districts will let you play a sport with a grade point average below 2.0 — as a warped sort of reward and believe kids with low grades are better motivated by denying them extracurriculars.
Way back in 1999, I visited Taft High School in Cincinnati for a story about proficiency testing. The school tried this sort of approach. Freshman who did not pass the state test were banned from taking anything but the core subjects until they passed. So rather than get music, art or gym they got a second section of math or other extra study.
I never met a more miserable group of kids in my life. And at least in that case, it didn’t work. The school’s scores remained low and dropout rate high until a new principal came in and began trying innovative programs, such as internships with local businesses, that went in the opposite direction and tried to give kids a reason to come to school.
That’s just one example. The folks at the school featured in the Times story feel like the strict approach is working. Which way would you go?
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By angie
April 9, 2008 10:26 AM | Link to this
The schools are putting too much emphasis on things other than academics. Schools allowing kids to play sports before looking at grade point average that meets state standards and what should be expected for them to make it in life, should be of the utmost importance first.By Mary
April 8, 2008 7:40 AM | Link to this
Regarding supplying school items and a sense of entitlements, why should we be surprised? A large number of people seem to think the costs associated with after school activities is an entitlement, as well. Let’s see, what is more expensive - giving an elementary school kid workbooks and pencils, or a high school and middle schooler, trainers, coaches, and trips to sporting events.By Concerned Mom of 3
April 8, 2008 4:25 AM | Link to this
Sarah- You have touched on an important point… The families in the suburban districts have a different mindset than those in the inner city districts… Take that statement one step back, and you will see that the teachers/districts really are dealing with different clients. The culture of poverty has a completely different mindset than that of their suburban counterparts. It impacts every aspect of education. In the suburbs, if a district drops the extracurricular stuff, the kids still have a family who can/will fill in the missing piece of the curriculum. In the city, if the extracurricular stuff is dropped, the kids often miss out on the opportunity. Period. The parents either can’t/won’t pick up the missing pieces. I am not sure that it is due to a sense of “entitlement.” It may just be that people have different priorities. (Sometimes the priorities seem really mixed up, but then again, I bring the suburban mindset to the inner city.) Some families are working really hard just to get by each month. Others collect their public assistance check and just get by each month. Either way, it is very difficult for the inner city families to fill in the gaps when services are cut.By Sarah
April 7, 2008 9:16 AM | Link to this
Let’s be clear about the concept that schools must supply everything for the kids. It doesn’t happen in the suburban school to which my kids go to a great degree. A few kids don’t keep supplies, but generally the parents keep them stocked after reminders. This is a problem created by the entitlement mentality of the City during the past years and decades.By Barb
April 6, 2008 12:19 AM | Link to this
It is not just the students. Parents expect the school to supply paper and pencils, books must be supplied and if students ruin them they refuse to pay for them. Parents won’t cover them when asked. The worst part in my opinion is that as adults they expect the same thing. The news about the section 8 housing shows that people pushing and shoving, getting mad at authority figures instead of being appreciative for what they are getting for free. How many of you would like help with your housing expenses? I know I would. Maybe we should reconsider give, give, give and support, earn, earn earn.By Laura
April 5, 2008 4:01 PM | Link to this
I agree with Barb in part. We do spend a lot of time coming up with reward systems, but in my experience it is an effort to maintain discipline. If there is a problem with discipline in a classroom, one of the first things I’ve heard teachers being asked is: How are you rewarding them? What incentives are you providing? It really irritates me when I ask a student to pick up some trash or stack some chairs and the first thing out of their mouth is: “Will you give me a piece of candy?” That is the surest way NOT to get some from me. But there are some students who have somehow learned that they have to get “paid” or rewarded for doing something they should do automatically. I know of one teacher who tried to improve the amount of homework being turned in by offering a popcorn and movie party for students who missed no more than one homework assignment in a month. The students who already did their homework thought that was great. The ones who didn’t do it, said that wasn’t good enough, they wanted pizza. ON the subject of grades to play sports, I don’t think expecting above average grades, “B” or better is reasonable. There are some students who simply are not capable of consistently earning those grades. If a grade of “C” is considered average, then it seems that it should be acceptable for playing sports. In addition, the grading scale we use is statistically unfair. There are 60 points (or more in some districts) required before a person gets a “D”. That means that if a student has a grade of 20 on one assignment and a grade of 100 on the next two, that student could still have a D. In some districts, a “C” is over 80 points.By Happy Homeschooler
April 5, 2008 8:13 AM | Link to this
Why should children feel entitled to rewards all the time? Kids these days are all about ‘getting more’ for themselves. The entire world revolves around them. And we wonder why we have the issues we have with kids. Standards should not be lowered just so that you can ‘reward’ the kids that don’t do the work. Please tell me that I am not the only person that sees serious problems with that. Kids should have to earn decent grades to play sports, join clubs, and play in band (not C’s and D’s). They should not be entitled to that just for showing up at school, you know? Art, music and gym, OTOH should be part of the core curriculum for ALL students. Academics first, then, if they earn it, they can join in the fun parts of school.By Barb
April 4, 2008 6:12 PM | Link to this
People outside of education do not realize how the educational world works now. It is not good enough for us to expect students to come to school, do their work and get good grades. We are to constantly reward them for doing what should be expected and rewarded at home. We spend more time setting up plans for rewards than we do for discipline. We are expected to try and make sure most children participate in rewards, we constantly lower expectations to make up for the fact that they do not get what they need at home. Amazingly there are parents who only make contact with the school if their child is not allowed to participate in an activity. While this works for some the students who are doing a really good job are jilted because students who do not make the effort are also being rewarded. Students are beginning to think they must always have a reward. I think the idea of making sure students are earning the right to participate will help them in the long run. Look at how many athletes are not able to conform to the rules these days. Could it be because nothing was expected of them if they could play a sport?By Dave
April 4, 2008 5:58 PM | Link to this
In 1984, Texas started “No pass, no play”. It includes sports, band, etc. The transition was rough and there have been lots of attempts to “fine tune” it, but basically it works. If you flunk any class, you miss ALL extra-curricular events.By Concerned Mom of 3
April 4, 2008 4:39 PM | Link to this
Back in the old days, when a child was not performing up to their potential, parents would take care of the problem at home. In today’s world, the parents actually blame the low grades on the teacher!!! Perhaps this is one of the reasons the schools are starting to establish some clearly defined expectations? Work first, play second. It isn’t a bad thought. I firmly believe that the curriculum should include sports and games- a well as many other “extra” activities. It is important to give the kids some choices in order for them to extend their learning in areas they are interested in. Especially in areas that will impact their daily lives as independent adults in our society. Why can’t one of the extra curricular activities be a sewing class? or a cooking class? or a time managment class? or a motivational speaker? or a money management class? or a “How to be a good parent” class? or a “How to be a good citizen” class? or a Basic Home Maintainence class? I am not knocking the sports teams at all- many kids benefit from the lessons learned from being part of a team. I just think the schools could do a better job of offering some daily living enrichment activities. Maybe a young girl would get wrapped up in a sewing project instead of going out drinking and partying? (Dare to dream.) In answer to the question “Should the schools establish reasonable parameters for participation in the fun stuff?” Sure, but there has to be some wiggle room for the students who are applying themselves, but just don’t happen to be A-B students.By Mary
April 4, 2008 8:19 AM | Link to this
This article describes a cacophony of styles, students, and types of services - including pep rallies? It would be difficult to sort out what in the circus-like atmosphere works. That is one of the basic problems as described in the book “Schools that do too much”. Who can really focus on the core purpose of education? Why do we expect our education system to reward and coddle students into “adulthood” through a system that seems to be more oriented toward behavior modification and control than education and learning. The mentoring program mentioned makes some sense because I think students appreciate and like to engage in the “adult” world and learn things other than what is generated in an immature school bubble with school employees and students. I do not think coaches saying some students are more engaged and manipulable in school because we bribe them with sports offerings is enough justification for the resources drained from the classroom for all students. I think the coaches benefit more than the students and society. We need young men and women to be less coddled and taught more responsibility as parents, spouses and workers - not that the world owes them attention over and above everyone else. Some students are actually motivated to learn, but are turned off in this dumbed down atmosphere. Make classes smaller and adult interaction more personal. That should also solve a lot of problems if the teachers are of reasonable quality. We cannot do that if schools are also doing so many costly activities after school for what is usually a small slice of students. And that brings up another issue. None of these feel good articles about the importance of activities describe in any detail exactly how many students benefit, the costs, and the tradeoffs. When the numbers and costs are given, they have all the integrity and spin of graduation rates. I think music and gym activities should be part of the school day for all students, not an after school activity for just a few.By mil_mom
April 4, 2008 7:51 AM | Link to this
All I can do is respond from experience. When I was in high school way back in the 80’s in a different state, we were required to have a 3.0 to play sports. However, there was no requirement for band, chorus, art, etc. Last year, in Ohio, I was appalled when I heard the 1.5 requirement for the students in our district to play sports (that’s higher than what the state requires which I believe is 1.0). In my mind, that is outrageous. Our school district spends a lot of money on study tables just to keep students eligible to play sports. What are public schools for? Teaching academics or teaching sports??