Dayton Daily News education reporter Scott Elliott writes about schools, kids, teaching and learning.
Home > Blogs > Get on the Bus > Archives > 2007 > March > 07 > Entry
Are charters worth the money?
(DaJuan Spann learns construction trades at the ISUS Trade and Prep High School in 2005)
On Tuesday, I was invited by the National Association of Charter School Authorizers to speak at a training seminar for charter schools and sponsors (called authorizers now). The main purpose was to give them information and answer their questions about dealing with the media. (Among other things I lecutred them on their responsibilities under Ohio’s Sunshine Laws.)
But the group also asked me to make some remarks on the state of the charter movement in Ohio. The most controversial thing I said was that I believed critics, and now even some advocates, of charter schools are asking this question — are we getting our money’s worth?
Ohio has more than 300 charter schools with 64,000 plus students enrolled at a cost this year alone of more than $400 million.
That’s not pocket change. I think all sides of the debate would agree that test performance of charters is not where anyone would want it to be. Overall, students at charter schools pass state tests at a rate roughly equivalent to the state’s urban public schools — not a place that either charters or traditional public schools wants to be.
If you dig a bit deeper, you find some very high performing charter schools and some very low performers. Most are somewhere in the middle. What does that sound like? A critic would probably say it sounds a lot like the system we already had — some very good public schools, some very bad ones and a bunch in the middle.
So are we spending $400 million to create a microcosm of what we already had?
Charters would argue no. First of all, they’d point to innovations that have resulted from expirimentation in the schools. Some of the most interesting ideas in school reform today were born of the school choice movement. Nationally, the KIPP schools are an example. Locally, there’s the ISUS Trade and Tech Prep High School and even the Dayton Early College Academy. DECA is not a charter, but is a school of choice and an experiment by Dayton Public Schools and the University of Dayton that probably would not have been tried except for pressure from charters that forced the district to offer its own choice programs.
Would those schools be here today without choice? Maybe in some form. But it’s not likely they’d be flourishing the way they are now.
The charter folks were quick to argue to me that the charter experiment has resulted in no net growth in education expense for the state. Without charters, they said, the district would still be spending $400 million to eduate those 64,000 kids. They’d just be doing it the old way — wtihin traditional school districts — and be missing out on the innovations and new ideas charters have generated.
So what do you think? Are we getting are money’s worth in Ohio when it comes to charters?
(Image credit: Bill Reinke, DDN)
Permalink | Comments (15) | Categories: Charter Schools and School Choice, My Favorite Posts
Comments
By newprof
March 11, 2007 8:02 PM | Link to this
A few points…I can’t say for sure if charter schools are worth the money. For that matter I can’t say that DPS is worth the money spent either. What I know is that DPS was in academic emergency for years, and charter schools came along with the hopes of changing the pattern of failure for students. When these charter schools started, they still had the same students that had been in the “failing” public schools. Local charter schools never received the “creme of the crop” like so many in the past have said. Many of those charter schools are failures for various reasons, perhaps one being that people tried to bite off more than they could chew, choking on idealistic notions that because something is different, it is better. Actually, that seems to be a problem that a number of underinformed parents have. I know when I talk to my colleagues,whether charter, DPS, or other, they all complain of “school-hopping” parents who seem to yank their children whenever things do not seem to work out the way they want. With all this choice, there are actually parents out there who think they are running the educational system and as long as their child never has trouble (no matter his/her current juvenile court status)and as long as they don’t have to actually deal with their child then everything is peachy. I frequently come in to contact with parents who have no idea or understanding of what the state requires students to know to pass those notorious tests. So when little Tommy was going to SchoolX, he had straight “A”s, and now that he is at SchoolY, he is struggling. Yet so many parents want good grades before effective learning. Meanwhile, parents are not solely to blame because we can debate all around the number of factors that contribute to why parents have it so tough, especially parents who live in poverty. What I have never understood is after all of this time, why haven’t school administrators and the like come together to examine and analyze the most successful schools(openly)? When I look at the standings, it appears that in Dayton, of the top five performing public elementary schools, three are charter, two are DPS. When I talk to parents who have students attending these schools, the majority of them are quite satisfied. The conversations seem to revolve around learning and positive discipline. What gives? Most of the press I see is hell-bent on comparing and contrasting charter schools to their arch-rival:public schools. Very little is focused on good schools versus bad schools. Dayton is an urban environment. Whether children are white, black, yellow, or green, I also wonder if the new crop of teachers that are entering the market are really qualified to meet the demands of this market. Last points…NCLB seem to threaten to close non-performing public schools. I say, “Bring it on.” Maybe our children need the example. Oh…wait, who’s going to pay for that, and where will all the children go? Oh…and what about the potential waste of money on vouchers? Besides the constitutionality issue. I feel if schools are going to accept the windfall of vouchers, then they should make their stats public. I have no direct complaint against any of the catholic schools(especially the high schools), but how does one prove that vouchers are worth their weight?By Rick
March 11, 2007 1:13 PM | Link to this
Scott, Jim DeBrosse wrote an article, probably over 10 years ago, about the lack of discipline in the DPS. It would be interesting for you to do an article on discipline in the DPS today. I suspect the problems might be about the same. You might want to even ask questions about the bullying of white students, a subject no one wants to talk about. The lack of discipline in the schools is THE primary reason the middle class go elsewhere, either by moving, sending their kids to private schools, or homeschooling.By keith
March 10, 2007 4:18 PM | Link to this
To another DPS teacher it sounds like you have the principal that I suffered under before leaving. He finally left and went to a Dayton charter school to run it! He didn’t support the teachers-he had no concept of education requirements. And Oldprof—isn’t the need for more money properly applied what is needed in improving education—more money = better teachers if only they get rid of the slugs. The slugs aren’t always the ones that aren’t popular with parents however. They’re the ones that do the bare minimum.By Oldprof
March 10, 2007 1:24 PM | Link to this
What we’re forgetting here, also, is that the most successful charters, like ISUS or Cincinnati’s Web DuBois Academy, have somehow found higher levels of funding than the others. DuBois got it through state error, ISUS through benefactors. If we want to take those examples, it seems clear that one aspect of improving education is to fund it at higher levels.By another DPS teacher
March 9, 2007 10:13 AM | Link to this
Mary, We are not talking about minor discipline infractions that result from improper classroom management, or lack of challenging work. I am referring to students who are violent verbally and physically towards their fellow students and the teacher. I’m talking about constant fights. I’m talking about a lack of the schools’ control over being able to even talk to a parent. I agree with you that teacher’s unions need to focus on this as well. Our working conditions can be helped by smaller class sizes (much easier to manage any behavior). However, the union needs to get even more involved in forcing the administration to do their job. I argue that the charter schools have made all of this worse for the public schools, because rather than handling behavior problems, parents just take their kids out of one school and put them in another. Also, the district has become so frozen by their fear of losing students, that they are refusing to do what needs to be done. The situation at DPS has steadily gotten worse with charter schools. Also, I have had 15 new students just since Christmas because of the students being kicked out of other schools. These are the students involved in a lot of the problems that we are seeing.By Mary
March 9, 2007 7:23 AM | Link to this
I agree with the comments on the need for discipline in the classroom. Public respect for teachers’ unions might actually go up if they were to make an issue of discipline instead of increases in pay and benefits. However, discipline problems can also result from students being underchallenged. Old prof, I do not know what you mean by your comments on Walter Reed Army Hospital as relates to competition, especially when you consider it was on the base closure list. That is still no excuse for shabby treatment of wounded soldiers.By dps teacher
March 8, 2007 8:25 PM | Link to this
Sorry old prof, I was saying that you probably blame the slow demise of voc. ed. on the feds and the state, which would be true on some levels, although I think kids often see those kinds of training programs as beneath them. It seems many youth I know are only interested in making the quick bucks and are not interested in actually working to make a living.By wellwhynot
March 8, 2007 8:02 PM | Link to this
Another dps teacher is correct about the problems at the schools and the attitude/behavior of the administration regarding discipline and the fears of the system that they will lose children and funding. I am now wondering if “anotherd dps teacher” and I work in the same school! It sound just like my building. But then, most people I talk to from other buildings tell the same stories. Interestingly, Dr. Mack was recently in our building. He was given a tour of some “select” rooms and areas. He was also kept away from others. I wonder if he noticed or if he really didn’t want to see what else was happening.By another DPS teacher
March 8, 2007 3:41 PM | Link to this
The students are out of control at both the charter schools and the urban public schools. Teachers are unable to contact parents whose phones are disconnected, or who do not want to talk to the teachers. We are told that we cannot force a parent to contact us, because that would “leave behind” the students whose parents won’t cooperate. We have children who are continually allowed to disrupt class, be violent towards each other, and verbally harass the teachers. The administration and the parents do nothing about this. How can teachers teach under these conditions? I know this also goes on at the charter schools, because I get the students who have been kicked out of those charter schools. Dayton Public Schools is so worried that they will lose students to charter schools or that their attendance numbers will go down that they allow students to get away with inappropriate behavior. I don’t think people realize how truly awful it is. When you were a kid, were children allowed to scream at each other, call the teacher names, run the halls, etc.? Were parents allowed to “cuss out” your teachers? It is inexcusable. We should be seriously worried about not only our schools, but also our society. Regarding ISUS, I think it is a wonderful program. I know many students who did not succeed in traditional schools, but they have excelled in the ISUS program.By n8smom
March 8, 2007 9:47 AM | Link to this
I do not think charter schools are worth the money. My son attended a local charter school for 1 year in the 3rd grade. He tested above the norm and was at a much higher grade level than his classmates in 2nd grade. I put him in this charter school, because I could not afford private schools and heard rave reviews from other parents. I thought he would do much better there than the public school he was attending. He did well; however, the following year we returned him back to the public school (due to transportation issues and my husbands work schedule change). He was having trouble keeping up in the 4th grade class. He has never struggled. We spoke to his teacher, and found out that he was behind in math and writing. The other children were taught that in the 3rd grade, my son was not at the charter school. I was very upset. He has since caught up and is doing well. So don’t let Charter schools fool you, they are not better than public school at least Huber Heights Public Schools.By Oldprof
March 8, 2007 9:11 AM | Link to this
DPS teacher somehow thinks I’m opposed to voc ed? Not at all, so long as the “education” part is not compromised—that means that the student learns the general skills (math, communication, logic, self-motivation) necessary to continue to learn and grow in a trade or profession. Meanwhile, we might note that the proponents of competition and outsourcing aren’t bringing up the great impact those experiments have had at Walter Reed Hospital. Charters are an experiment, so we should refer to their children not as students, but as subjects—and so far the null hypothesis has been confirmed.By Mary
March 7, 2007 10:10 PM | Link to this
“DPS teacher”, I strongly agree with you about vocational schools, and the fact that college is not for everyone. The persistent idea that every student should, or wants to, go to college does everyone a disservice.By wellwhynot
March 7, 2007 8:24 PM | Link to this
Obviously we aren’t. When Charter schools first were proposed it was said that they could do a better job of educating public school children and at a lower cost. As a whole, they haven’t been able to do that. It also seems that instead of offering real alternatives to the most at-risk students, they are basically offering the same thing the public schools do but with fewer restrictions and less oversite. If they are to be truly successful, they need to offer students and their parents something that the public schools don’t offer. My initial thought is that one of the most beneficial programs they could offer would be an alternative program for students who are of average or above intelligence but have behavior/attitude problems that interfere with learning. I’m not talking about students who have a serious emotional diagnosis. There are a large number of students who need a different placement than the traditional school, that offers an advanced, stimulating curriculum along with strong discipline.By Rick
March 7, 2007 6:03 PM | Link to this
Absolutely! The Buckeye Institute prepared a paper concerning how the comparison being made were comparing apples to oranges. When the demogrphics were similar, charters did better. You mentioned ISUS academy, it answered a real need that the DPS refused to address, bullying, expecially of white kids. Scott, I also sent you information how well charters are doing in Georgia. Yes, charters are worth it. Parents need choices and the public schools need competition.By dps teacher
March 7, 2007 5:12 PM | Link to this
First, let me make this clear, I hate charter schools because I believe that they are not better than the public schools they are supposed to replace and I think they have unfair advantages when it comes to competition. That being said, charter schools have forced the Dayton Schools to actually start to educate its students and actually become more proactive and inventive when it comes to education. Some colleagues and I were discussing how vocational training has lost its importance in public education, I know “old prof” those are the mechanisms of the evil federal and state mandates. I guess in my idealistic and naive way, I believe that schools should prepare its students to be self-sufficient citizens in society. Unfortunately, not all students are going to be successful college students. Rather than just focusing on getting students into college, our public schools, especially DPS, should realize that it is missing out on educating a large portion of its population in life skills and trade skills, something they can use right of college. Charter schools like ISUS are addressing those needs and I think in that regard, a charter school is worth the money. (I can’t believe I just said that) It’s hard to argue with the speed at which these charters can’t meeting a demand. Look how long it will take the district to build its new vocational high school, Patterson Career Academy.