Get on the Bus

By Mary

November 14, 2006 5:50 PM | Link to this

“thankUteachers”, I have spent time in the classroom as a sub teacher - a year and a half in my district - at all the schools on call at the last minute. If you want to bemoan the conditions and pay of fulltime teachers, you might look into subteaching pay and working conditions. However, that is not why I did it. I wanted to get a better idea of classroom environment, curriculum, etc and the district put out a public plea for subs.

By thankUteachers

November 14, 2006 9:00 AM | Link to this

Scott - I agree with what you are saying on the high turnover of teachers. There seems to be a perpetual shortage of teachers. I personally know of several that left the profession. Of my 5 college friends with degrees in education, only one is still teaching. Two quit after the first year or two, and the other two didn’t even make it to five years. The one that is still teaching is an elementary teacher, one taught junior high, the others were secondary teachers. It’s sad, because they were brilliant people who were so excited to be educating kids, and could have been such inspirational teachers, but they got burned out so quickly. One friend said that dealing with the parents was like slamming her head into a brick wall, over and over. I can honestly say that I do not know a single teacher who got into teaching for the “summers off” as GREAT stated. And there IS competition and co-workers, GREAT, it is YOU that is living in the land of make-believe, not the teachers.

By thankUteachers

November 14, 2006 8:50 AM | Link to this

to GREAT and Mary - you obviously have no clue. None. Go spend some time in a classroom (most districts would be happy to have a volunteer) then maybe you will have a valid opinion. I am not a teacher (to me, no amount of money is worth the amount of abuse those people take!) but I am a parent, I have spent many hours in the classroom, and I have an education BECAUSE of teachers. Why do we pay attorneys so much? Physicians? Even the man that fixed my car last week makes more money than the people greatly responsible for who my child will become. That is pathetic. Spend some time with teachers, then come back with an opinion based in something besides bitterness.

By Scott Elliott

November 13, 2006 9:04 PM | Link to this

Mary, I’m not sure that’s the same as leaving the profession. I am sure many college grads leave their first job in less than two years for a better job in the same field. I believe the NEA study said most teachers leave the professions in less than five years. But you may be right that the numbers could be high for other professions, too. We don’t have any comparison data.

By Mary

November 13, 2006 8:29 PM | Link to this

I located the turnover info I mentioned in my previous post. It was a USA Tdoay snapshot on the front of their October 31, 2006 Money section. According to that info, “Most stay at their first job less than two years.” So the 50% turnover for teachers in five years would appear to be low in comparison. The USA Today Snapshot was based on the question “How long did you stay at the first full-time job you took after graduating college”. The data shown was 36% stayed less than one year; 42% stayed one to two years; 13% stayed three to four years, and 4% stayed more than five years. 5% haven’t worked since college. The source was experience.com “2006 Life after college” study of 320 college graduates.

By GREAT

November 13, 2006 7:51 PM | Link to this

I do think teachers work hard - well, sort of. But a teacher should understand what he/she signed up for and deal with it…. And you do have summers off. I know many teachers who do nothing or work part-time - they don’t have lesson plans or any other school stuff.

By Mary

November 13, 2006 7:07 PM | Link to this

Scott, as you pointed out, the article is based on an NEA study, which hardly qualifies as objective. I recently saw some stats in the DDN or USA Today about how many college grads leave their first job within two to three years. The article about the NEA study did not mention the turnover in urban versus suburban schools, by different parts of the country, other dissatisfiers, comparisons to other careers, etc. it came across as union spin without any details.

By Caroline

November 13, 2006 3:58 PM | Link to this

Great, Why are you so bitter? For someone who says that teachers complain too much, you do an awful lot of complaining yourself. Regarding summers, how would I ever increase my education and plan for the next school year without my summers? As it is, Dayton has shortened our summer, and made it harder to get the credits that we need. Plus, it makes it a lot harder to work a summer job—which I have to do to make ends meet. Don’t criticize until you’ve walked a mile in a teacher’s shoes. I work way over my scheduled hours each week—not because I am inefficient, but because there is no other way to get all my grading, lesson plans, and paperwork completed. I have worked “real jobs.” I know what that is like, and I get tempted to go back. I went into teaching because I wanted to have a job where I felt like I was making the world a better place. I know—it’s cheesy, but it’s the truth. However, not a day goes by where I question my decision—because of the stress; the way I’m treated by students, parents, and the public; and my low pay. Why are you so bitter about teachers? What do you do for a living?

By GREAT

November 13, 2006 12:58 PM | Link to this

Mary is right. So what if you have to go to Grad school - didn’t you know this BEFORE you wanted to become a teacher. And Summers off is a big deal … most teachers admit this is one big reason for becoming a teacher. Bottom line is that you want US to become teachers becasue it is so EASY…. well, no, that is not what I want or anybody else wants. What we want if you teachers to ZIP IT, do their job and stop complaining. If you complain too much at many places of employment they push you out the door. Working in the real world is hard enough - no guarentees, no contracts, many jobs with no union. Teahcers don’t have it easy - they just have it easier than most other people who have to work in the “competetive” world. I am sure you have to arm wrestle the 8th grade Math Teacher for more paper. In the world outside of make believe and “tax payers” jobs, one must live up to a performance, produce and out shine not only co-workers but also competitors. And I don’t understand the argument with overtime - you get paid a certain ammount of money to DO A JOB. Do it more effeciantly and you will have more time for yourself. Lesson plans for teaching the same thing over and over should not be all that time consuming. I have know teahcers who have taught the SOS year after year, do a good job at it, and seem to find time outside of work to have a life. Unless you have put in 110 hours per week for several weeks to GET THE JOB DONE then let’s not talk about overtime. BC a person is paid to get the JOB DONE.

By Scott Elliott

November 13, 2006 12:54 PM | Link to this

Mary, this is from the NEA, but the Washington Post in May cited their study which said 50 percent of new teachers leave the profession in five years. That does jive with what I’ve seen and what teachers often report seeing in their schools. So perhaps there is high turnover from people saying just what you suggest, that a teaching job isn’t worth the hard work and hassles when you could make more doing something else? Here’s the Post story: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/05/08/AR2006050801344.html

By Mary

November 13, 2006 12:30 PM | Link to this

Using your logic structure - “thankUteachers” - you could also say if teaching is so “hard”, why isn’t there more turnover, and why aren’t teachers quitting and going into the other highly paid “easy” careers?

By thankUteachers

November 13, 2006 11:13 AM | Link to this

Mary- For your information, most teachers DO work overtime without pay- and don’t give me the “but they get summers off” garbage either. Most of that time is spent planning the next year, or attending classes to keep their liscenses. IF TEACHING IS SO EASY, WHY DON’T YOU QUIT WHAT YOU DO FOR A LIVING AND BECOME A TEACHER ???? Everyone wants to criticize teachers for the jobs they do, and they want to complain that teachers have it so easy, but no one wants to do their jobs. I’ve been in classrooms, and I can tell you that it has to be one of the most difficult, time consuming jobs out there. There’s a complete lack of respect- from students, parents, administration, and the public in general. Before you criticize a teacher, ask yourself where your education came from, and how much are the people that shaped your future worth?

By Mary

November 13, 2006 8:57 AM | Link to this

Put away the self pity and hankies long enough to read what “null” was probably really saying. I did not read null’s statement to say that he/she thought all teachers were currently making $40,000 at start. (What about some teachers and their reading comprehension skills - and you are supposed to teach kids.) Maybe “null” was saying a little like Freud “What is it that teachers really want/expect?” Is it $40,000 to start? $100,000 after ten years regardless of effectiveness? Old prof implied maybe they should make as much as game show hosts. Meanwhile, some teachers/whiners need to get in touch with the trials, tribulations, and expectations of other careers as far as going to night school for additional degrees, large chunks of salaries that go to health care and child care (including the summers while teachers are off and have time to work on additional degrees). Also large chunks of salaries go to professional attire. From what I have seen, most teachers can get away with wearing less expensive and more comfortable casual attire (makes sense to me). I could hear all the whinning if teachers were required to wear dry clean only suits, ties, and heels, travel constantly, work overtime without pay, and did not have a union to whine to. Many whiners in other careers are simply fired and look elsewhere.

By thankUteachers

November 12, 2006 8:39 PM | Link to this

TeacherMom - Hopefully you’ve opened null’s eyes - but one thing you forgot to mention outside of the cost of education is the cost of supplies in the classroom. I am marrying a teacher - he has a PhD, but not in education, so to teach in the public school, which he has chosen to do, he has to go back and get a Masters. On top of this cost, he spends money every month providing this for his classroom like pencils, paper, tissues, chalk, dry erase markers, printer ink, laminating,etc… the list is ENDLESS. And he DOES NOT make $40K a year, nor will he for quite some time. I’m sure that when most people need supplies for their job, these things are provided to them. Not so with teachers. And their max. reimbursement is $50 A YEAR. He was over that limit the first week of school! THANK YOU TEACHERS FOR ALL YOU DO!!!

By teachermom

November 11, 2006 11:11 PM | Link to this

To NULL, I have no idea where you got the statistic that teachers start out around $40,000. Shows what you know ! I have been teaching well over ten years and don’t even make $50,000 yet. And yes, we DO need to get paid better in order to teach the students ! The fact that you might need reminding of are that we are REQUIRED to maintain professional licenses. The requirements under NCLB state that we have to further our educations by getting Master’s Degrees within a limited time period of first-year teaching. Older teachers like myself still have to take the required credit hours to renew our certificates too. We ALL have to complete grad. programs to get anywhere on our salary schedule. Of course, getting your Master’s raise doesn’t even come close to covering what you have paid out for tuition, books, childcare, gas…It takes YEARS to recoup that money !! Not to mention the fact that these requirements give no consideration to what is going on in your life at the time and whether all this is convenient . I don’t know of too many professions that MAKE you go to grad. school within a certain time frame or lose your professional license. Of those that do I am sure they have TUITION REIMBURSEMENT and even RELEASE TIME for people to take some coursework. This is not how it works in education. So NULL, get your information together before you drag the teachers through the mud. What a teacher makes with a Master’s is a FAR CRY from what our downtown Administrators make with the same levels of education….Teachers are not priests and nuns anymore. We will never be rich doing this, but it doesn’t mean we have to take a vow of poverty, either. Get rid of that mentality because if we can’t pay our bills, pay for licensure renewals, and most of all eat, then NO, we cannot teach the children properly.

By null

November 11, 2006 7:10 PM | Link to this

a fair and modest salary is a matter of opion,i do believe they do deserve to be paid well and deserve increases but at what point does it become too much should first year teachers start at around $40000 and only go from there. when they tell us they need pay raises to properly teach the kids, what are they bad teachers at current pay, the raises begin to take away from books, computers and other aids that can help their education. this is compounded by the fact that bad teachers can continue to teach without any overstie.

By Oldprof

November 11, 2006 10:43 AM | Link to this

Null can’t think of any other job with “That kinda pay increase” only due to not thinking at all, I guess. I can think of hundreds of professions that have salaries that start generous and that keep up with or exceed inflation annually. Anyone who wants to do a little googling can easily find several. We all have our biases, but the one that begrudges public servants a fair, modest salary is not pretty.

By null

November 10, 2006 8:26 PM | Link to this

this is no longer about the kids fairborn teachers have shown a true side of greed with a 20% cost of living over 5 years along with annual step increases for years of tenure which are between 1 and 4%. I cant thing of any other job with that kinda of pay increase and ofcourse they’ll support a levy because if it passes theyll just hit the district up for another 5 or 6% next year

By lou

November 10, 2006 6:46 PM | Link to this

Way to go teachers. I hope DPS settles soon.