By The Obvious

November 10, 2007 9:04 AM | Link to this

No amount of commission is going to sell a house these days. Why are houses not selling? It’s pretty simple. There is no confidence in the RE market. Everybody seems to be waiting for more effective tax reform, furthur stabilization of insurance, the bottom of the downturn, and negative press to stop.

So if you’re trying to sell your house, you’re better off taking the listing off and renting it out. It’s not if it’s going to turn around. It’s when. You’ll be much happier then. Remember, this is South Florida.

By Get in the Game

November 10, 2007 12:47 PM | Link to this

Dual agency, once of the dumbest concepts…

How can you expect a Realtor to represent both side of a transaction?

Since, we all can agree Sellers have a vast majority of the information AND Realtors want the highest possible sales price for a house (new and used), then how can this possibly be advantageous to the Buyer?

If you are Buyer, know the Seller and their agent are against you. And for your best hope of transaction priced correcty, have your own counsel.

In the end though, the Buyer’s side counsel is usually against you as well.

Oh well…

By John

November 10, 2007 5:14 PM | Link to this

Why would a listing agent give a discount to the seller if he also found a buyer? The listing agent would actually be doing more work in finding the buyer not less work.

Dual agency is something of an oddity in that no one can serve two masters, the seller and buyer at the same time but it does happen. When it does, the listing agent is required to disclose the fact to both parties and both must concur to proceed. Obviously, the agent cannot offer his advice concerning the price or bidding to either which is something of a problem which demotes his worth in the transaction. There is definitely a conflict of interest involved. I would not allow it if I was a buyer. I would find another agent to act in my behalf which would cost me nothing since the seller has already agreed to pay the commission to the buyer’s side.

An important point to understand with dual agency is that it doesn’t just come into play when the same agent is the listing agent and the buyers agent. It comes into play when any buyer agent is dealing with any house listed by his broker. A bit confusing and often misunderstood by many agents and certainly the public.

Realtor ABC has one broker and can only have one broker. He employs many sales agents. One or more of his sales agents can also have their broker’s license but are referred to as associate brokers not THE broker. One of the agents or associate brokers has a listing for a seller. The listing broker is Realtor ABC not the individual sales agent or the associate broker. If the listing agent finds a buyer dual agency is in play. Also if any sales agent or associate broker working for Realtor ABC finds a buyer there is also a dual agency involved. Stay with me now. Here is a point often misunderstood by many on both sides of the fence. Realtor ABC has multiple locations around the county. He could have 10 offices and hundreds of sales agents and associate brokers working for him. The listing broker for any house listed by any of these offices by any sales agent or associate broker is Realtor ABC. So dual agency comes into play when any sales agent or associate broker from any of these offices finds a buyer for any house listed by Realtor ABC.

My advice is to find a agent from another Broker to represent you as a buyer. Do not agree to have another agent from Realtor ABC represent you. There could still be a conflict of interest even though he or she is not the listing agent representing the seller.

By John

November 10, 2007 5:50 PM | Link to this

Get in The Game commented that the Buyer’s side counsel is usually against you as well.

This is true. The buyer agent does not get paid unless you buy the house at any price. So he or she is motivated to get you to BUY. You don’t buy he doesn’t make a dime. Getting you the best house or the best price is not number 1 on his list.

What can you do? I have always recommended finding an experienced and knowledgable real estate appraiser. He does not represent any seller or any broker. He would or should be totally unbiased and only providing you with information and data on the real estate wihin his area of expertise. He is required to support any conclusions with data not just his opinion. He should be able to provide trend analysis as well as any other information that could affect the value of a property, such as zoning changes or proposed zoning changes, new developments, water, sewer problems, etc.

Of course, there is a fee for this. In general it is a few hundred dollars but depends on the scope of work you want him or her to do. You have to decide if it is worth it. When you consider the cost of homes today and how much he or she could possibly save you, I would highly recommend it.

One other note. The seller often arrives at a listing price based on the opinion of the broker’s sales agents. They provide comps which tend to support the price they came up with which is or can be somewhat biased. The appraiser is not selling or buying the house and does not depend on getting paid based on the house or any house being sold or bought.

Any one can offer an opinion on the value of a house - your parent, sibling, friend, the guy at the gas station or anyone. The real estate agent or broker should be a better source but they are biased. They are also not trained or licensed to legally appraise a property.
Only the licensed appraiser can do that. I’ve read some comments that an appraiser is also just giving his or her opinion which is true but they are the only ones who have the education, experience and license dictated by law to offer an opinion that is listen to and acted on by a lender. Opinions by others are totally ignored.

By Little Rock

November 10, 2007 7:36 PM | Link to this

LOL, you should see our agency rules. We make money and these buyers think they are getting represented, hahahahaha…..

If you think we have it made as agents here in AR, you shoulde see how the suckers, err, the buyers get yanked and pulled in NC, it’s a hoot. If I were a buyer in NC, especially from FL, I would watch my backside, as the Floridiot going to NC is prime pickins’ to those crafty, sweet talkin’, southern style agents. The Florididiots melt over the NC agent’s phony accent and the and then the agent swoops in for the kill. I liked the story of the slick pamphlet in NC with “Easy” monthly payment on the farmland in “converted” land in NC to sell to the Floridiots, too funny. Floridiots is not my name for them, it’s what the NC RE agents call the buyers from your state. Don’t shoot the messenger, lol.

Dennis in LR

By bigrob

November 10, 2007 10:48 PM | Link to this

‘Floridiot’ I wish I thought of that.Being from florida you would think that it would upset a few Floridian’s.I.m sure lot’s of floridian’s are glad to see the floridiot’s go to.

By DuelingDuals

November 11, 2007 5:50 AM | Link to this

Jeff, You twit. Dual Agency has not been allowed in Florida since 1997. Maybe you should learn the business before you report it.

By DuelingDuals

November 11, 2007 5:51 AM | Link to this

Jeff, You twit. Dual Agency has not been allowed in Florida since 1997. Maybe you should learn the business before you report it.

By Max from the Beach

November 11, 2007 11:38 AM | Link to this

Good Morning from a beautiful sunny beach somewhere.

DD beat me to it, but he is correct. Jeff has really gone off the deep end, there has not been dual agency in (in the residential sector) in Florida for at least a decade. In fact, unless the law has been amended recently, it has been illegal in Florida for all that time (except in commercial transactions).

Little Jeff read a few pages of a book and never stopped to ask himself if it pertains to Florida. This is the quality of reporting we enjoy from Jeff and his coho(rt)s.

And did the Post pump up the real estate market on the way up? You bet your a*s they did. Whatever sells papers.

BTW: My the way, despite the smug commentaires from some pretended realtors above, here’s my take on it. Instead of relying on realtors, spend a few hundred bucks and 40-some hours in class, and get your own real estate license. Put it with a 100% commission factory and be your own rep — and keep your commissions.

If you go for the broker’s license you have even more opportunities. Here is an example: right now I must decide if I want a 180K condo in Florida. If I buy it, I earn $35,000 in commission in 5 minutes. My problem is I don’t NEED it, and it doesn’t carry itself. But what if you DO need shelter and a deal like this fits the bill?

When you get a broker’s license you will start to understand what the outspoken rubes here don’t, and why a broker can make even more money when the market is down than when it is up.

By Foreign Cash

November 11, 2007 11:48 AM | Link to this

Foreign Cash Could Boost Housing Market

By Jeff Ostrowski

November 11, 2007 2:30 PM | Link to this

Florida technically outlawed dual agency, but it still allows agents to serve as transaction brokers, meaning one agent can collect the full 5 or 6 percent commission if the buyer isn’t being represented by an agent.

By John

November 11, 2007 6:25 PM | Link to this

Jeff, what you describe would not really be dual agency because the agent is not representing the buyer. He is only representing one side , the seller. The buyer as you wrote is not being represented by anyone which is his option. In other states, buyers complained they had no representation. That is when buyer agents and consequently the possibility of dual agency came into play.

By Little Rock

November 11, 2007 8:15 PM | Link to this

This is much too funny to watch. A few of us brokers are reading your debate on dual agency and rolling on the floor, and you call us dumb hicks!?!

You Floridiots haven’t a clue as to the real advantages/disadvantages to dual lip service and how it can be manipulated to my advantage to put more dollars in my pocket, the broker. Once again, I am begging you to watch the agents in NC, who are pure pros at getting more money, err, commission out of the naive, but smiling Floridiots in their pilgrimage to the pined, not palm treed, nirvana of western North CaroFalsePromises.

Make sure you all get a perc test on that piece of dirt you just bought on the edge of a cliff….it just might not pass to put a septic tank on it, and then you all have a big problem. Land that isn’t worth the free weekend certificate was printed on.

What is a perc test? Ask that NC agent of yours who is trying to sell you a piece of dirt on the edge of a cliff for $69,900. Oh , but Matilda, do you see the nice, new road they put in so we can drive right up to our piece of dirt we paid much too much for. Oh my!

Cheers from The Natural State! (the dumb hicks, oh really now…)

By John

November 11, 2007 9:20 PM | Link to this

Little Rock don’t leave us hanging here. Please tell us what a buyer should do to defend ourselves against such thieves?

What do you think about a hiring a good appraiser if one could be found?

By Question for Max

November 12, 2007 1:52 PM | Link to this

Wouldn’t you be better off buying with a lower purchase price than receive a commission on a higher purchase price? Don’t you have to pay income tax on the commission?

By Max Sees Question

November 12, 2007 6:41 PM | Link to this

To Question: that is not a cut and dry question, but generally it would be better to run those dollars through your corporation where they pay for everything that can be called an expense, and what is left can be paid to the agent as income. Paying it as W-2 keeps your Social Security funded, which is of fantastic importance.

Doing this extra business also makes your corporation and you look fatter, which brings unending offers of credit at low or zero per centage. It also gives you a higher “cost basis” on your unit so you don’t wind up with a capital gain some day that can’t be offset by expenses.

These days, with brokers making less money, it doesn’t hurt to go out and generate an extra 100K or so a year, just to make it look like you are still alive. Always the same caveat though: once you buy those units, you have to do something with them. They don’t need to go up in price, but they do have to hold steady for a while, and you have to fund any shortfall in the meantime.

Income tax? I am certainly not an expert on other people’s money, but it does not seem to me most brokers pay personal income tax. If you show only say, 60K in 1040 income after your 1120 filters, and 25K goes away for “passive losses” and another 25K goes away for Schedule A type stuff, what is there left to pay on?

Remember that Congress wrote the tax laws to ENCOURAGE people to buy property, and those who do are strongly favored — without cheating.

+++++++++++++++++++

Jeff is trying to put a nice face on his ignorance, but a Transaction Broker is the OPPOSITE situation from dual agency.

For the past few years we (real estate licensees) have wasted an enormous amount of time making sure the proper disclosures are made for single agents, transaction brokers, or brokers/agents with no brokerage relationshiop (figure that one out).

If a single agent of the seller want to transition to a Transaction Broker, he must give yet another disclosure to the seller, and this can only happen with the seller’s written approval.

Next year, I think, all residential agents will be presumed transaction agents unless disclosure is made to the contrary.

Anyone with a brain in his head, who sees one person is handling both sides of a transaction, can approach him and try to get a break, especially if buyer and seller are a few dollars apart.

Unfortunately, it’s not up the the agent. The broker determines commissions, and has no legal obligation to give the agent any say whatsoever.

Jeff STILL does not understand the absolute fundamentals of real estate practice, and trying to explain them to him is a waste of time.

++++++++++++++++++

“Little Rock” should call himself Little Brain instead. I think this guy would keel over and die if he understood what incomes are in places like Boca Raton. 69K is half of what many of us spend on a car. He thinks he is coming into a windfall selling lots for 69K — which are probably used for tax shelters anyway. (How many of you buying these lots really want to go to Arkansas — EVER???)

ROFLMAO

It takes all kinds.

By Curious

November 12, 2007 7:29 PM | Link to this

Why any studious, intelligent and well informed buyer partnering with a good attorney would need a real estate broker in this market is a mystery to me?

Well, perhaps one rare exception – a professional, very knowledgeable, loyal, trustworthy and long-time successful and aggressive salesperson who is now focused as the bird dawg buyer’s broker?

In this kind of market, for the next couple of years or more, I would think these competent people are sitting in the catbird seat since there are waaaaay more value assessing smart buyers starting to show up with lots of money and anticipating big-time profitable action, compared to most stuck sellers with constantly declining assets.

Just my $0.02.

Cheers!

By bnb

November 12, 2007 9:00 PM | Link to this

hola que tal

By Little Rock

November 12, 2007 9:22 PM | Link to this

This Max fella ought to know that us dumb hicks in AR know how to make a dollar. This son of a bus driver bought himself 3 condos in 1989 on that magnificent strip of north A1A in beautiful Boca Raton, which one of them we use 4 or 5 times per year at this clip. I’ll be down in two weeks. The boys are very capable of taking care of shop up here while my misses and I “Yacht and Racquet” down your way, Mr. Max.

Max, you and I have probably put on our feed bags in the same chow halls in those parts of East Boca Raton. I’m not too happy that Le Vielle Maison turned off his cooking fire.

My ex-wife is a full timer out in that dump they call Boca West. Max, you don’t suppose Boca West is where the townspeople house the hired help, now do ya’?

Whoo Pig Sooie! Go hogs go!!!!!. We need all the help we can get this year. ‘Dem damned Tenn Volunteers. Don’t get me started. Ya’ll think we can beat LSU to redeem the season?

By RCA - TO ALL HOUSING RE CHEERLEADERS

November 12, 2007 10:59 PM | Link to this

max is still around. just in time to say, toasty to the housing market in south florida and dont forget to pay me in euros.

p.s. this is only the beginning of a long and beautiful housing crash.

and, dont forget to pay hugo for the 3.50 gas you will be paying by christmas.

and dumb bush cant even respect veterans on veterans day by showing up to arlington.

i never used my house as an atm. i am now in the currency business.

thanks ben for helping drop the dollar like a rock.

=)

By Max is in Shock....

November 13, 2007 10:15 AM | Link to this

Little Stones:

I am appalled at the the thought of even being SEEN with you, or your pig of a wife.

West Boca IS exactly where we put the rednecks like you. For those who don’t know, it is mainly trailer parks. What’s left is cheap apartments in Century Village, cheap houses full of construction workers,like along 64th Ave., and subdivisions like Meadow Lakes, which are becoming primarily Haitian. It figures a schmuck like you would brag about this.

It also figures a schmuck like you would brag about 3 condos amidst people who control sizeable fortunes. Better sell those condos while you still can, stupid. Beach erosion is threatening the integrity of many of those buildings already.

What a f**king idiot, to brag about money when your net worth is about 1% that of most of your neighbors.

BUT, that’s what stupid Southern rednecks are for.

++++++++++++++++++

TO RCA: When you say you are in “the currecny business,” that means you hunt down empty soda cans and return them for the deposit.

Anyone who buys houses is in the currency business — as the dollar sinks, the stock market and prices of houses go up. Try it, chump, chart the record highs of the stock market recently against the record lows of the dollar. To paraphrase the auto parts commercial, “They don’t just fit — they match.”

I’M STILL WAITING FOR THAT REAL ESTATE CRASH YOU”VE BEEN PROMISING.

I’m ready to buy. Where’s the crash?

By Little Rock

November 13, 2007 10:50 AM | Link to this

Max, you misunderstood me all along, or you just had one of those yankee moments of just going too darn fast all the time and didn’t read my last blogger carefully. I said the fat b - i - t - c - h, the EX wife was living in “Boca West” ,that old run down development out by Glades and Jog area, not way out west Boca. That Boca West where the ex hag lives seems to me to falling down the crapper, what happened to it? What’s the scoop, Max? I’d love to send her a note telling her some bad news. Always makes this slow boy’s day.

The condos out aren’t in any danger of falling into the sea, my rustled up fellow broker, if ya know anything about Yacht & Racquet, it’s across the street from the sand. I thought you knew Boca. Heck, I just visit a few times a year and I know that, but then again, I’m a dumb hick from the true south, and you’re one of those yankee fellas who thinks their cow patties smell like periwinkles in full bloom.

Max, my good man, you and I are much alike, just from different parts is all. Too many of you uppity types in Boca. Can’t seem to get a good sandwich and a cold can of beer anywhere in town where they don’t look at ya like you fell off the beanwagon.

Max, this visit gonna be mostly business for me. I’m looking at a few units out there on Palmetto for a friend and one for yours truly. You’re right on your commish lesson to the other fella. You just need to make sure you have something to do with it is all.

I won’t never sell those condos at Y&R. Besides, sis lives in one, ya gotta take care of family, ya know that, don’t ya? The good book told us boys to take care of widowers if we can, and that’s what I will do, and sis likes it down there. Besides, it’s just a short drive to my bros A-frame on Galt. He’s the one of daddy’s boys who made it real good. He got that fancy degree in Fayetteville, not me. I went straight to work.

Tell me a new place to strap on my feed bag, and you come on over when I’m down and I’ll buy a nice scotch, and we’ll share some stories. You sound like a hoot. Do you play Pinochle?

Your new friend in Little Rock