By cw1900

September 5, 2007 10:27 AM | Link to this

I will respond to the misguided, bitter fool who sent the “To FL Ren” post this morning. What some of you doomers fail to realize, and even our newest contributor, Greg Block, also pointed out, is that for the long term, renting out real estate is a phenomenal investment of your time and money. Laugh all you want with the worn out “clogged toilets” mantra from people terrified to become landlords and most of the doomers, but at the end of the day, it is well worth it, and that is undebatable.

Let me ask you something, “To FL Ren”. Do you think FL Ren got the way he is today by hiding in his cubicle at this dead end job, throwing a few bucks each month to his 401k, and continuing to rent year in and year out? No, of course not. I also just assumed alot right there about you, I admit, but it’s still a good bet of what your mentality probably is by posting such mindless comments and stereotyping.

You sir, are an Anti-Landlordite. My people have been persecuted for thousands of years by the peasants in the fiefdom of you perennial renters, and we will not let such anti-landlordism stand. Just because you don’t like the color of our money, is no reason for us to put up with your prejudices.

Next….

To Greg Block, Actually, student loans never entered my mind, but you are correct. I assumed, wrongly it seems, that baby boomers or anyone interested in second homes and/or investment property would be in their 30s, 40s, 50s, and 60s for the most part, and it never crossed my mind that people of that age would still be paying off student loans!

Look, and I will add this addendum to my post from yesterday, but if you are 40 yrs old and still have a student loan balance outstanding, you have much bigger problems and shouldn’t even consider a second home or any kind of investment property until you get rid of that financial suicide pill. I’m laughing at the thought of some 46 yr old idiot driving to work this morning in the leased Beemer, dreaming of his 1/2 acre mountain property he’s about to buy from some radio real estate broker, yet he’s still sitting on a student loan that he hasn’t finished paying off for the last 20 years! I guess it’s possible, but like I said, even I never thought anyone could be that financially devoid of common sense. Thanks for pointing it out.

Student loans and you’re 37 years old……?!? What….?? If there is someone out there like that who reads this blog, and god I hope not, but if there is, you better not reply with a post trying to defend that one. Oh, and by the way, that degree you got, better not be anything related to finance.

Oh, and one more thing, this new topic, tax bills falling, fairness, politicians, confused voters……I don’t want to have to tell you I told you so, but….. I told you so.

RFLMAO!!

cw

By To CW

September 5, 2007 10:47 AM | Link to this

I love landlords. Who else would rent me a property at less than 1/2 the cost of owning that same property. They are letting me build up my savings/downpayment, they will come put up my hurricane shutters if necessary, and they will come fix my toilet.

If I had bought a few years ago when I moved here, I’d be upside down now in my mortgage, like my landlord is.

Right now, landlords are one of the best financial things that has ever happened to me. Once prices come down a little bit more, and once my savings are where I want them to be (20-30% downpayment), then I’ll become a “have”. Until then, I’m much happier renting in this market.

CW, lets take a MD or a lawyer who has student loans. What is the interest rate on those loans? Probably under 5%. Wouldn’t the lawyer or MD be better off investing money and getting say a 10% return, with some liquidity, than paying off loans at 5%? Even if you take into account after tax dollars, the lawyer/MD is better off investing than paying off the loans.

By cw1900

September 5, 2007 11:38 AM | Link to this

You said, “CW, lets take a MD or a lawyer who has student loans. What is the interest rate on those loans? Probably under 5%. Wouldn’t the lawyer or MD be better off investing money and getting say a 10% return, with some liquidity, than paying off loans at 5%? Even if you take into account after tax dollars, the lawyer/MD is better off investing than paying off the loans.”

No and No.

You forget to factor in one very important thing, and if you forget to factor that in, you have a lot to learn about finance, investing, and sound money management.

You forgot to calculate risk.

You assume you will get yourself 10%, the number you used, and yes, you cannot forget the after tax dollar part of the equation, which makes it even worse. What you theorize is widely used , but nonetheless, not too bright.

Paying off 5% is the exact same thing as getting a guaranteed 5% return. Your 10% example is not a guarantee, and when you factor in risk, let’s say it’s only a 2.5% part of that equation, now you must get 7.5% to break even by keeping the loan and investing what you are not paying off. Now, factor in the part that you are investing after tax dollars, and that difference is even less, maybe less than one point. It’s simply not worth it when you factor all of that in there. I would rather, and actually do this, using my “no car payment” philosophy ( I can’t use student loans as an example because I never had any), I would rather pay it off first, and give up the time and chance to invest those dollars now, for the bigger payoff later. What is that bigger payoff? Simple. After I have gotten rid of that loan as fast as I could and not just make the minimum payment, I now have all of this extra cash flow, and no more payments draining my future cash flow for many more years. I will now take that same cash I used to pay on the student loans, and now plow that into the stock market. I can build it up faster because what, yes, I have more available cash every month than I did when I was making all of those payments.

I also have a new, valuable mindset that I have acquired of living within my means during that time of paying off those loans, which I will have my whole lifetime. That mindset is a huge factor in building up substantial wealth, far more than your little math equation. Ask FL Ren if he agrees with me, a guy who has done it, and he probably has a few more bucks than you and I. I will eventually pass you in the money invested, and you did all that extra factoring and paperwork for all of those years for zero to very little return in the end, than if you would have just gone ahead and paid it off quickly and earlier, and not having that ball and chain weighing you down for years to come.

You can tell me until your blue in the face, that your math theoretically could make more by investing it instead of paying it off. The key word is “could”, that’s a big maybe, that’s the risk thing, and again, the fact that you are investing after tax dollars, and that argument doens’t hold too water in the end.

The bottom line is you are walking a tightrope, and I’m taking a much surer route. If we both do it 100 times, I’m guaranteed to end up with a nice chunk and less headaches. You will be beat me sometimes, sure, and sometimes it will end up being the same, but many times it will lose. Since we only have one shot, I’ll take my way.

The fact is, it has worked for me for all these years. The fact that my networth is far more than most people making twice what I make is somewhat a testament to that. That’s not bragging, it’s just fact.

Next…

The landord issue…..I said “long term” and I’ll let Max or FL Ren finish that up for me, I have to get back to work.

cw

By eyeopener

September 5, 2007 11:56 AM | Link to this

Disagreed with a friend who said there were nice condos now available in WPB for 150K or less.

Glad it wasn’t a bet. Anyone else who can’t believe this either, do an online search. WPB only, came back with OVER 500 listings.

Take a look for yourself. Really surprised me.

By Greg Block

September 5, 2007 12:10 PM | Link to this

CW, I have to say that I agree 100% with your statement. It’s financially naive to compare a no-risk 5% investment with a risky 10% investment.

Another critical factor to consider is behavior. My friends and colleagues who are in their 30s and 40s and who still have student loan debt have bought into the canard that there is “good debt and bad debt”. All debt is bad debt. Not only do they still have vestigial student loan debt, they also have no savings. In fact, these people use the argument, “why pay off my student loan debt when I can invest the money elsewhere” to neither pay off their loan, nor invest elsewhere! They end up spending the money on the cost of living, or discretionary items.

That is why many people who have debt also have little savings. They don’t recognize their own misbehavior.

Don’t believe the lies the mainstream media tell you. There is no such thing as “good debt” and investment is for people who can afford to take risks because they have a positive net worth…

By TO CW

September 5, 2007 12:16 PM | Link to this

You sir, are an Anti-Landlordite. My people have been persecuted for thousands of years by the peasants in the fiefdom of you perennial renters, and we will not let such anti-landlordism stand. Just because you don’t like the color of our money, is no reason for us to put up with your prejudices.

Funny.

By Bad Debt?

September 5, 2007 12:30 PM | Link to this

So, Greg and CW, you are saying my student loans, which I admit I still have, were a bad idea? It allowed me to go through school because my parents could not afford to send me to college, and now I have a good job.

Even if it takes me another ten years, I will say it was a good debt.

By To CW

September 5, 2007 12:31 PM | Link to this

Seriously, you need some investing help. If you can’t get 10% on a regular basis, you need to re-develop your whole strategy.

Take a serious look at private equity deals, and many of them are doing far better than 10% (and avoid the ones caught up in sub-prime mess).

That’s why you will never have any real money, you just don’t get it.

By Madoff

September 5, 2007 12:38 PM | Link to this

CW, ever hear of Madoff? They have averaged about 9 to 13% per year for the last 20 years or so. Its a nice place to park some cash, like money used to pay student loans.

By easyasabc

September 5, 2007 1:12 PM | Link to this

When will the dumb voters of Florida will learn that our politicians will lie, lie, lie about everything that they will do for us?????….especially when it comes to taxes…..only two things are for sure in life ….death and taxes……everything else is possible…..even “have nots” turning into the “haves”……..another medical reseach firm coming to Jupiter…..it’s the GERMANS !!!!!….barbed wire fence, german shepards and watch towers with bright lights….there goes the neighborhood……..Shaq and his wife are splitting…..can you imagine what that little lady will be getting in property assests !!!!!….especially what she will be getting out in california……..looks like no more long naked walks along the bech shoreline with the little lady…..expect for her to get a $250 million plus in assests…..When need Jeff to investigate that future divorce settlement and who got what in real estate……….I like to say this about renters…..when it comes of getting shutters up, fixing leaking pipes, or repairing broken cabinet hinges….I ay this to them…..ha ha ha ha ha ha ha….and I also say “see contract under repairs and replacement”…..in otherwords…Let Them Eat Cake……….CW, there are many people out there still paying off those student loans….especially attorneys and doctors………many doctors do put their investments into medical office buildings these days……..Hey, whatever happen to “investments” ??????……..I do have to say that if you are behind in your payments, you need to cut back…..drive a less of a car, eat in more, forget about that exotic vacation and go see the grandparents instead……it will be a very Blue Christmas this year for the retailers……..Fla. Ren. in the Hawaiian rain forest…..what a great place to be……..all you renters out there, have hope for yourselves…..someday you can be a “have”……you just need to sacrafice, sacrafice, sacrafice……and rich R., you need to look out for this weekend, a storm is heading your way…..put a few more extra concrete blocks around Carolina Gal’s trailer so it will not get blown away.

easyasabce

By Greg Block

September 5, 2007 1:39 PM | Link to this

Once again, it’s a myth to say that, just because you have graduated from school, your student loan debt was a good idea. By taking on debt, you took on risk. I know many people who took out student loans and never graduated, either due to illness or some other unplanned event.

If you were able to graduate from college, you were lucky. You are in the minority, because most students who try to attend college do not graduate. Nonetheless, they still have to pay off their student loan debt.

You can also put yourself through college without student loan debt. You have to use another 4-letter word called “work”. That is how I put myself through college, and that is why I am able to put my kids through college.

If you still have student loan debt after 10 years, I’d say you bought into the culture of debt. Are you going to put your kids through college, or ask them to take on student loan debt as well? The culture of debt is not something you want to pass down to your kids, is it?

What you have described is not a plan for success, because it takes on too much risk and leaves you in no position to pass on good money management traits to your kids.

By Greg Block

September 5, 2007 2:29 PM | Link to this

Madoff, no one says you cannot get a consistent 10% return on other types of investments. However, these investments have risks, and you have to adjust for the risk premium when comparing two different investment returns. A 5% “guaranteed” return cannot be comparied to a 10% return when invested in the markets. First, there is market risk, then there is beta. You have to back these variables off the investment vehicle’s average rate of return. It’s Finance 101.

Bear in mind that even though some returns on average are in the 10% range, these returns are lumpy, which means that you can start your investment during a down cycle and not get the same actual return as the headline rate of return.

By 5% Loans

September 5, 2007 2:54 PM | Link to this

Paying off a 5% loan is not like getting a 5% AFTER TAX guaranteed return. So lets say you are taxed at only 15% LTCG, then you are getting about a 5.9% guaranteed return. If taxed at 28%, then its like getting a 7% guaranteed return.

That aint too bad.

By Michael Fink

September 5, 2007 3:09 PM | Link to this

You mean that home prices and median income are correlated?? Couldn’t be.

BTW, that puts the median right around 200-250K in Palm Beach county, with 250 being very much on the high end.

http://money.cnn.com/magazines/fortune/fortune_archive/2007/09/17/100250262/index.htm?postversion=2007090509

First, house prices may move on euphoria in the short term, but long term they depend on family income - the ability to pay mortgages and rent. At levels well above the normal four times family income, the market gradually loses first-time buyers until prices break and fall back to affordable levels.

House prices are in genuine bubble territory in the U.S., Britain and many other markets. In Britain and in some critical large cities in the U.S., for example, the multiple of family income has risen to over six times from below four times, and in London last year the percentage of first-time buyers was the lowest since records began.

From these high levels, prices are guaranteed to fall. In doing so, they will reduce consumer borrowing and spending power. They will also increase mortgage defaults, most of which lie ahead, and lower financial profits and confidence.

By WAKE UP

September 5, 2007 3:16 PM | Link to this

Let’s put this in simpler terms…if you have student loans from school, it’s a debt that, good or bad, has probably bettered your life and your earning potential. So debt not necessarily good, but if you now stand to earn twice as much as you would have without the degree, that’s good. Now I think what cw really wants you all to get is that you shouldn’t be driving a leased 760Li and paying off your student loans…of course if you’ve been paying attention to cw you should never lease (I agree btw)…I do like a new car though, but pay them off quickly and drive them ‘til they die…I do believe in paying for something of quality if you will use it to it’s fullest and it will last longer than a cheaper version…

By BIGROB

September 5, 2007 3:17 PM | Link to this

CW1900 I agree with your posts from today and yesterday you must have your act together in order to move ahead in investing in RE.I am seeing now in the market people that are in trouble still think there is a sucker out there willing to buy there dated RE flop to bail them out.All that granite and maple in the kitchen costs about a third of what it cost in 2005.Sellers need to wake up buyers are much smarter now.Just for giggles me and the wife went out yesturday looking around where we would like to buy another home and Agents are still up to there old tricks.Im not fooled by the tactics and i’m no rocket scientist.All I see is falsly inflated prices to show a discount.People are still asking pretty much what they were asking two years ago maybee %5 drop from 2005.Looks like I need to do some homework on short sales.

By WAKE UP

September 5, 2007 4:06 PM | Link to this

Better start stuffing your mattress with cash Fink. According to the author of your article, there won’t be any safe place to keep your cash…RE is crashing, stocks and bonds are poised to take a crap…don’t put your cash in the bank…they might go under with all this mayhem…FDIC only covers $100,000…better spread it around…but don’t bury it in the landlords yard…gotta go now, that black helicopter keeps circling…

By Boca Condo King

September 5, 2007 4:08 PM | Link to this

Great topic today about student loan debt.

CW misses some other pitfalls I have seen.

In addition to not graduating from college or university, I have also seen people in deep student debt with degrees that are useless in the marketplace.

Going into debt to be a lawyer, doctor or some other sort of professional, fine. What about the ones who graduate in debt with degrees in art?

Even today in SOFL, a person can attend FAU or another state school, work as a bartender/waiter etc. and plan to graduate in 4 years, or maybe 5. As an employer, I am far more impressed with someone who worked thier way through school even if it took more then 4 years then someone who did not.

By Boca Condo King

September 5, 2007 4:08 PM | Link to this

Great topic today about student loan debt.

CW misses some other pitfalls I have seen.

In addition to not graduating from college or university, I have also seen people in deep student debt with degrees that are useless in the marketplace.

Going into debt to be a lawyer, doctor or some other sort of professional, fine. What about the ones who graduate in debt with degrees in art?

Even today in SOFL, a person can attend FAU or another state school, work as a bartender/waiter etc. and plan to graduate in 4 years, or maybe 5. As an employer, I am far more impressed with someone who worked thier way through school even if it took more then 4 years then someone who did not.

By easyasabc

September 5, 2007 5:16 PM | Link to this

Does anyone know the number of people with Masters, walking around without jobs today in this country?

Does anyone know the number of people who spent more money on their auto than on their education?

Does anyone know the number of people who lost their jobs in the mortgage business in the last six months?

Does anyone know what the average income that a realtor takes in each year?

Does anyone know who was the person who dared to compared Realtors along with higher grade professions with Doctors, Attorneys, and Educators?

Does anyone know that beer keg parties, spring break vacations, college football & basketball game tickets, school fashion wear, and off campus renting costs, is also included in that school loan debt?

Does anyone know that some of your college daughters are stripping up in Gainsville at places like “Dare to Bare” for horny college guys and overweight truckers to pay for their classes and books?

Does anyone know some of these college girls keep on stripping after college, because the profession they wanted to be in, is loaded up with other past unemployed college kids…..and the stripping money is better for them!

Does anyone know that the “Pasta Squatter” is still dreaming about seeing $250K median prices here? A 60% drop???????? Where else in this country are we seeing property price drops like that??????

I must have missed this story…..but Palm Beach County is paying someone $175,000 to come up with a new County Logo…….Now, I know we have some quick minded people….and some slow ones also…..but we can help the county out and save the money for them if we came up with new logos…..I like to add a few NEW logos for the county……

Palm Beach County - Home of the Haves and Have Nots.

Palm Beach County - Welcome to Road Construction Hell

Palm Beach County - Do We Have a House for You

Palm Beach County - Home of the Very Few Rich and the Many Poor

Palm Beach County - Foreclosure is Our Middle Name

Palm Beach County - No Crime Here

Palm Beach County - Home of Trump, Limbaugh, Rawls and Fink

Palm Beach County - Where Your Vote Counts ! It Really Does !

Palm Beach County - Hablo Espanol

Palm Beach County - All Are Welcome - Rent Squatters Keep Away!

Palm Beach County - Surf - Sun - Serfs

Palm Beach County - Crackland U.S.A.

Palm Beach County - Winter Getaway for New Yorkers

Palm Beach County - Rude New Yorkers Free 8 of the 10 Months of the Year.

Palm Beach County - Ranked #1 in the USA for AIDS Among the Elderly

Palm Beach County - We Have the World’s Greatest Politicians, Developers and Realtors.

Palm Beach County - #1 in Convictions in the World for Corrupt Politicians, Developers and Realtors.

Palm Beach County - Starting Point for Halfbacks

Palm Beach County - Home of the I-95 Killing Lanes

Palm Beach County - Gateway For The Corrupt And The Sinful

Palm Beach County - Welcome To CondoWorld

ok, lets hear from some of your suggestions out there…….

easyasabc….(spelled it right that time!)

By Max ReRun

September 5, 2007 5:29 PM | Link to this

I found this article by Max so inspriring that I decided to reprint it in the current column.

Signed,

Max

+++++++++++++++++++

By Max Laughs and Laughs

September 5, 2007 11:45 AM | Link to this

…at the renters who have nothing, and somehow convince themselves they are making a killing.

Will you people stop taking drugs for just one day? Look around! The people who have something in this society own appreciating assets, whether it’s a pocketfull of diamonds or a bunch of rental properties.

Renters are too stupid to understand that wealth is not based on what you could pawn your property off for TODAY. They can not see past today. Like my dog, they can not understand the concept of tomorrow.

If you are in the process of building wealth through real estate, you are in it. If you lose a house, tough luck. You can then either decide you’re done, and resign yourself to a horrible life like the renters, or you can decide nothing will stop you in life, learn from your mistakes, and go on.

Only a fool does not understand that dollars lose their value as you watch, they must be turned into something productive. Even THAT is unnecessary though to buy houses these days, and I think it is not quite right that the atmosphere in of hysteria in the media allows anybody to walk away from a house now, having lost not a dime of their own money. We all need a tougher training ground than that.

I feel the pain and the envy of people who look at Palmetto Place, and say to themselves “I can never afford that” instead of “I will work to afford that.” The problem is not in the real estate market. The problem is in their lack of character.

Since the beginning of our society in Feudal England, wealth has been based on who owned land. Little has changed.

Wealth is not what your appraiser tells you this month as opposed to next month. Wealth is who you are.

Renters are forever serfs — because it’s what they choose

By Greg Block

September 5, 2007 6:30 PM | Link to this

That’s a little melodramatic, don’t you think? Real estate is an asset class, just like equities or alpaca hides. There is a time to own real estate, and a time to unload it. Now may not be the best time to buy, but instead the best time to hold out for bargains.

In addition, some people may be at a stage in their lives where it is best to rent - such as someone who has just moved to a new area, or knows they will soon be relocated for work.

Heck, during the French Revolution it was a better time to be a serf than a Royal…

By Max and the Tax

September 5, 2007 8:29 PM | Link to this

TO Greg: No, Greg, R/E is not just an asset class. It is the historical source of all personal wealth and influence, and it is intrinsically and fundamentally a part of our psyches, our intellects, our spirits. They call it “real property” for a reason — in the beginning and at the end of day, it’s the only property that counts; and any other asset class that has intrinsic value is obtained by taking it out of real property. Nothing survives, except to the degree that it successfully adapts to the earth, sea or sky.

Taxes: I was happy to find that my assessed value fell substantially on at least one of my houses. It’s true CW — my property tax did drop like a rock.

Doomers like Fink will wonder why I am in favor of an ostensible drop in the worth of the property.

Suppose you have a business, with revenue locked in, and all of a sudden your costs decrease significantly. That’s what is happening. My tenants don’t get to pay a dime less because my taxes go down. When I sell, it will be for a reasonable (or unreasonably high) profit.

BTW Greg: Our country and society are essentially an outgrowth of England, not France, mais si vous croyez bien mieux connaitre le sujet que je le fasse, je serais tres heureux de m’en entretenir avec toi.

Don’t even go there Greg — your knowledge of the subject is miniscule if you were not schooled within French culture.

By Greg Block

September 5, 2007 8:33 PM | Link to this

Max, I’d be delighted to learn anything about the French culture that you’d be willing to teach me!

By Max faces Facts

September 5, 2007 9:29 PM | Link to this

Greg: Your intellectual enthusiasm is refreshing given the constant cynicism from some quarters on this board.

Unfortunately, I am not a worthy teacher, you perhaps do not speak French, and we would p**s off everyone who came here to find out something about real estate!

Most PBC residents (if not from Quebec) are satisfied knowing about French Poodles and French Fries, and being able to distinguish the two. Most of the rest gets filled in from old Jerry Lewis movies.

You have to admit it is an interesting time in Florida real estate, don’t you Greg? I think there are going to be a lot of fortunes made in the next two years — much more made than lost.

By Greg Block

September 5, 2007 9:54 PM | Link to this

Max, as I’ve been told, je parle français comme une vache parle espagnol…

I heartily agree with your assessment that a lot of fortunes will be made in the next two years. I am subscribing to the “weak hands to strong hands” philosophy - ownership will transfer from the weak hands (who are many) to the strong hands (who are few) - a kind of trickle-up economics. What do you think? Do you see wealth aggregating, or disaggregating?

I can read in your words a strong passion for land and property ownership. I was very passionate about property when I lived in California. I owned three homes, and sold them over the course of a few years, before moving to Florida.

However, once I arrived in Palm Beach County in 2005, I saw that people really owned an “option to buy” and not really property. In many of the new communities where I was looking to buy a house, people had invaded the area during the pre-construction phase and were trying to flip their “option to buy” for a huge markup. I certainly don’t begrudge a person’s chance at making money, I just don’t want to be the person who supplies them with the fodder! So I didn’t buy. Now I am renting in one of the communities where I once was looking to purchase, and I see home prices falling drastically below what they were selling at two years ago. I also see many homes that have been on the market, vacant, for the last eight months.

In other words, the greedy “weak hands” have spoiled the joy of home ownership for me, and I hope that someday I can get it back.

Thanks for the reminder of how enthralling home ownership can be.

By to cw

September 5, 2007 11:28 PM | Link to this

“I also have a new, valuable mindset that I have acquired of living within my means during that time of paying off those loans, which I will have my whole lifetime. That mindset is a huge factor in building up substantial wealth, far more than your little math equation.”

That’s it. You get it. I get a tad PO’d when somebody tells me I don’t get it, and when I read these comments and then some hot shot told you that you don’t get it, I blew a gasket.

Personal finance is much more a behavior issue than a mathematical issue. Some people will never understand that. I got it years ago, and without you knowing anything about my life and the anonymity of this medium, I have used that philosophy in my business and personal life for 35 years. It has made me a wealthy man, even for South Florida standards.

Debt in my business was an obstacle in my view, and you don’t know how many bankers sat across my desk using that “good debt, bad debt” phrase on me to get this cowboy to borrow money.

I learned a good lesson many years ago when a competitor of mine 2 miles down the road borrowed plenty for huge upgrades and a complete revamping, a complete makeover of his business. One banker walked out of my office fuddling under his breath how the other guy “got it” and I would be sorry for not borrowing a pile of money from his bank to expand.

Well, no more than 3 years later, my competitor sunk under his own debt, went belly up, and took the bank for a ride. The banker retired, left our Rotary Club, and moved to Arizona. He didn’t give a Moose’s butt what happened to my competitor, who lost just about everything.

I stayed in business, and expanded little by little, paid for it as I went along, and ran that successful business, and 3 others, until I sold them all years later.

So, to the person who told you that you don’t get it, I would ask him to look me in the eye and tell me I don’t get it.

That fool would be horribly mistaken.

Time for a Mr. Williams and water.