By Whigging out

August 7, 2007 6:39 PM | Link to this

Click on the “Pat Cooper” link above and it is painfully accurate that this banker is wigging out! His rug will also crash well before 2009 also.

By Mike Fink

August 7, 2007 6:50 PM | Link to this

09 is probably a reasonable guess, although I could just as likely support ‘10 or ‘11. It all depends on how long it takes us to bleed off this excess pricing. If we lose it quickly (as we have been) then 09 is probably about right. At some point, there is a chance that we will hit a sticking point for prices; if that happens, we are probably looking at ‘10 or ‘11 while the stuck owners wait for inflation to move them out from underwater.

Oh, and condos? I honestly think that in some markets (downtown redevelopments, for example) we will not be through this inventory for 10 years. Yes, 10 years, and no, I am not kidding. There is NO MARKET for these things at anywhere near the asking prices. And the entire community is going to suffer as we have more and more foreclosures (and non-payment of HOA fees). Condos are cooked; you will be able to pick them up for pennies on the dollar in another 2 years.

By Honey

August 8, 2007 12:17 AM | Link to this

Whigging out, that was a childish thing to say. why don’t you post your picture on the internet and let everyone share their honest comments on your appearance.

By INSURANCE IS THE CAUSE

August 8, 2007 7:14 AM | Link to this

Property insurance is a LARGE part of the Florida housing downturn. Check out how they scam us in the following Bloomberg special report:

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601170&refer=home&sid=aIOpZROwhvNI

By Get in the Game

August 8, 2007 7:55 AM | Link to this

In the end, I am confused with all the hype poised towards the residential sector. The prices doubled from 2000-2005, and in many cases in FL, much more than that. Florida homeowners should be running to the bank, not crying so much. You could be living in Oklahoma, Indiana, or Detroit…enjoy those returns.

So, if you have a 130%+ increase over five years, cash out. If you do not need to cash out, wait.

Any institution (CALPERS, Harvard Endowment Fund) or private entity (Warren Buffett) would LOVE 25%+ returns for five straight years (for doing nothing). Why again, doesn’t CALPERS, Harvard, or Warren Buffett own any residential real estate? Oh yeah, almost forgot, they are not S-E-E-I-N-G the true value in the pricing and they are not I-N-V-E-S-T-O-R-S.

In most cases, no improvement in fundamentals, adding significant value (square footage, not the APPEARANCE of value (L-U-S-H landscaping and some paint)), or anything besides just sitting there was done to most properties, but still furnishing a 25%+ yield?

The S&P 500 just took 7 years to rebound from all-time highs; but

Residential real estate IS different, IS insulated, you truly mean IS an emotional wreck of “opinion of value”, inefficiency, and immunity from the supply/demand fundamentals that apply to just about everything else in the open market.

So what if FL home prices drop 10% - 15% in 2007; AND

Another 10% - 15% drop in 2008…SO WHAT

And another in 10% - 15% drop in 2009

Does it truly matter? The individuals who acquired properties in 2000-2002, in most cases STILL have a 100%+ return WITH the drop in prices.

All markets rise and fall. And South Florida is going to fall (in prices) as well. The funny part, the longer Sellers wait, the more multi-billion dollar companies file for bankruptcy, and ultimately the more pain Sellers shall feel.

Perfect example, WCI. Carl Icahn (billionaire) offered WCI $22/share on March 13, 2007. But WCI actually MADE FUN of Icahn and his puny offer (reads like local Sellers). Well now that stock is trading at less than $8/share. Real funny, I tell you. And, by the way, WCI shall continue to decline, because Goldman Sachs reported no one, that means GLOBALLY wants to put in an offer. Real, real funny.

So, again why is everyone crying?

Take your profits (which are better than most asset classes for doing NO work); or

Wait until 2012+ when the market returns to normal 6% - 8% annual appreciation, once again.

Trust me, not many people were complaining (even the NAR/FAR cheerleaders) when prices were clipping at 25%+ returns in many areas of the country in the 2002-2004 timeframe. So, why start complaining now?

2009? That’s a dream. Every six months, these “pundits” have been adjusting their rebound timeline to the right (about six months, go figure).

Fink is spot on, especially in the upcoming condo implosion. But I am sticking with 2010-2012 for up and down appreciation. And 2012 for NORMAL appreciation.

By easyasabc

August 8, 2007 10:00 AM | Link to this

Morning notes……

I was reading a few replys from the foreclosure stories…..first I want to talk about Big Rob and his life story….Rob built his life from the bottom, unlike others who want to start at the very top of life…..Rob and wife sacrificed, while others like Fink want to moan and groan all the way…..”Greed” is a disease….it affects many social classes in life…..from the poor to the very rich……But Rob, you are in Port St. Lucie…..that area has been talked about of being the next big city for the last 20 years…….it is what it is…….if you think you can make money there, you are kidding yourself…..

Next, I believe crazydem said it best about Mike Fink, when 2010 comes around, Fink will still not be able to buy here….Fink, enjoy those pasta dishes….

Then we have “realtor joe” who said to blame the mortgage lenders….who do you think stears the unqualified buyers to those lenders in the last three years?????…….realtors like joe….they get kickbacks…..most real estate firms have several mortgage lenders connected with their offices…..joe, realtors like you are being investigated by the Feds…..your cohorts will be pointing fingers at each other to lay the blame when you guys will get accused on mortgage fraud…..how many realtors/brokers in town are worrying not to have investigators come through their doors with a summons to appear with their records in court?????

Then we have “Maribell”…….I first this was a joke, then I realize from her words that it was true……I feel so sorry for you Maribell and your daughter….yes, we have a sick and sad society…….your dad died in Vietnam, and now we can see products in our stores with labels saying “Made in Vietnam”….in 10 years from now, we will see our computers with labels saying “Made in Iraq”….many Americans died in wars in Japan, Germany, Korea, Vietnam, China, Laos, Cambodia, Lebanon….all for the cause of the American Corportions to make their products for a cheaper labor price in those countries………what can you do about your problems????….it takes money to get a lawyer after your ex…..he is a bum, and should be ashame for himself for not supporting his child………I would ask for state social assistance program to go after him……second, the speeding ticket……tell the judge about your problem….he would ask you to drive at the speed limit and have you go to traffic class with no fee……third, get a job and reduce your expenses…..if you need to sell, put your property below everyone in your neighborhood…..your price will reflect their prices down the road……

for the porn movie offer, feel good that someone thought you were very good looking……but tell that pervert you are good christian woman and have a daughter who should be brought up with the same morals that you have…….btw, do you want a date?…..you intrigue me!

Foreclosures are not just happen ing here, but all over the country….Colorado homeowners has it much worst than people here…..there are even foreclosures in the Carolinas on people who own property there and here…….

We are still far better off with property taxes than most states….and the people who are foreclosed on, they were not in the position to own in the first place….they were told lies by both they realtor and lender of how they could own something beyond their means……

And last…..just because Jeff cuts the lawn of the bank president of a Palm Beach bank, does not mean they both know inside information…..at this point, it is all about politics that is happening with the lending rate……..the Democrats said last night it is the middle class that is the back bone of this country……the economy is run by the middle class…….the rich will survive and the poor will get poorer. More middle class people are getting into the poor stage than the rich stage these days……

Why do you think so many people move to Carolinas as Rich R. claims?…..because life is getting expensive for many of you out there….after Carolinas, it will be Kentucky or Arkansas…..have we come to a point of americans roaming the country like gypsies?????

Property taxes will not drop here 70% like some hope for in the prices of homes……govt. agencies need that money, and they cannot go back on reduce rate like they had in 1999….the time is 2007, and the budgets are being made for 2008, 2009, 2010 by our politicians….see, they want more of your tax dollars…..it is all about greed……and no owner has control over insurance rates…..insurance companies are the greediest of them all …..one can paint their house with dots and stripes with purple gutters, but your tax value will still keep going up………everyone knows it takes money to move somewhere else……everyone in life want money…..life is all about “greed”…..at the end, you can’t take it with you !

easyasabc

By Steve

August 8, 2007 11:11 AM | Link to this

Where’s the prices are going up crowd?

By cw1900

August 8, 2007 11:19 AM | Link to this

Maybe Carolina Gal is right? Hey Rich R. know of a nice place in Raleigh?

By cw1900

August 8, 2007 11:24 AM | Link to this

Good morning,

Rich R, I just read that article in the Sun Sentinel…These people may be professional sue happy types, but nonetheless, and I’ve said this before, if we don’t fix the tax problem so that snowbirds and landlords here aren’t taking it up that proverbial place, where Warren Newell is about to be violated frequently by his fellow inmates, then the slow RE market will continue longer than it needs to. It is just one factor, but a big one.

However, reading the comments from their readers of that article is proving my other point. Our voting public is basically stupid and totally ignorant. I’m afraid we will never make it a fairer tax system for the snowbirds and us residents who also own properties that do not fall under the protection of SOH. Let’s read a few…..

“Whey don’t they just go back to Alabama and pay their taxes. They can own two properties but don’t want to pay the freight. How many of us “Floridians” are well off enough to own two or more properties? GET A LIFE, MONEYBAGS!”

“Where’s my violin?? I wish I could afford to have home somewhere else and a vacation home in Florida. Whining babies. Our taxes are very high so they are not paying for us. If they need police or fire while they are here, they get it because we all pay for it. I hope it’s tossed out.”

“Thir ‘vacation homes’?!??! Give me a break! We are just trying to hold onto our primary residence that we have been in 7 yers. If our taxes go up, like how our ins. doubled, we are done—like many other families.”

and here is the gem of the day from one of our more educated citizens…. His name is Chris and he hails from Ft Lauderdale. This genius said,

“whoever said taxes are fair? either pay up or get out. we don’t want or need snowbirds in fla. all they do is inflate prices of real estate. if you want to vacation here, there are plenty of hotels/motels that can use the business, they employ people that actually do support the economy.”

This idiot doesn’t realize that without snowbirds, that j**s’ property taxes would be as high as NY or as high as many of the high tax rust belt states. We need the snowbirds. I understand that. Most of the ignorant populace does not understand that. I also understand Florida is transforming from an historically cheap place to live, to a more expensive place to live, hence the term many of us have used here, the “radiator flush”. It is painful, and nobody likes change, but it is inevitable. Guys like Chris will be pushed out eventually, and that is probably not a bad thing. Class envy is an evil thing, it really is, and people like I just quoted will always be miserable if they worry their whole lives on what other people have or make.

This SOH issue is like trying to argue abortion. It is going to be very hard to convince the other side, no matter how well your argument is constructed, especially when you are dealing with voters like I quoted above.

Next….

Easy, I just read a few of the comments on that foreclosure article. You are putting your compassion in the wrong place. Mirabell and the others are as bad and stupid as the Sun- Sentinel readers. Most of those posts are written so poorly and are so full of class envy, I was laughing. Mirabell wants me to feel sorry for her because she got a $200 speeding ticket. Do you know how fast you need to be going to get a ticket for that much? Very Fast. She can go to heII and will receive no sympathy from me. She could have killed someone for driving like an a$$hole. Her daughter will hopefully realize that mom is an idiot who has made bad decision after bad decision, and somehow I am supposed to feel sorry for that. Wrong. She deserves what she gets.

Next….

Let’s continue with the parade of situations that I am to feel sorry for this morning.

Front page of the business section in the Post this morning, an article, “End of the Dream”, tried to make you feel sorry for people with lousy credit and how they were losing their homes, and/or how much harder it is to secure good home financing when your credit is below average. The first line of the article says, “The dream of owning a home is fading away for many Americans with less than stellar credit.”

The article actually focused on the new reality of tightened lending practices, but with an article starting out with that first sentence, it is trying to get you to think, “Oh well, we’re all human”, “we’ve all missed a few payments every now and then”, or “who hasn’t been late a few times on a payment”, etc? “These borrowers should be allowed the American Dream.” Wrong again, you people.

Why should someone with lesser credit than I be entitled to the same rate of interest and terms as I? I work hard, pay my bills on time, and live within my means ALWAYS. I have lots of available credit that is sitting there unused. I have proven I can manage debt successfully, and I don’t overburden myself with it out of greed or want. I have mortgages and I use credit cards, but they are paid in full every month. If I can’t afford to pay for it in full when the credit card bill is due, I don’t buy it, period. The last time I saw my credit score, it was over 800. Am I bragging? No. I really don’t live or die on my credit score like some people do. I could care less what it is. I expect it to be high because I know I am a lender’s dream. They wish they could get me to borrow more, I would guess, but I have self control and don’t want to borrow money. I make payments on mortgages only, and only mortgages on houses. I never mortgage lots or raw land. 100% cash only or it doesn’t happen. These people in the article do not have or do any of what I just described. They are not entitled to the same benefits when it comes time to ask to borrow money, period, end of story.

Some of you will say, “cw1900, those exotic loans and subprime loans are what revved up this market in 2004 and 2005, and now that these loans are gone, it will make it harder for people to buy homes, thus hurting the RE market right here.” Right? Isn’t that what you were about to say? Sure, it is. Not to worry…. Time will take care of that and balance things out again, set new levels, and those of us who didn’t overextend ourselves will just wait it out, and reap the benefits of an balanced market when the dust finally settles.

The good news for people like me, the articles says, is “The silver lining is that people with good credit who can document their income have the same access to home loans as they did a year ago.” Ahh, the class envy crowd should chime in about now saying……”The rich get richer, and the poor get poorer…”. No, the poor just continue to make stupid mistakes and you want me to feel sorry for that bad behavior. Sorry, I can’t do it….. but they can rent from me if I want them to, but not Mirabell. I can smell her type a mile away, and that is a problem tenant if I ever saw one.

I guess the kids are back….1119am post not mine, but you know that.

cw

By cw1900

August 8, 2007 11:52 AM | Link to this

The 11:24 AM post above is not mine.

cw

By what to come

August 8, 2007 12:04 PM | Link to this

http://www.sun-sentinel.com/sfl-808corrupt,0,331859.story

By to rich r

August 8, 2007 12:05 PM | Link to this

they took your post away.

probably becuz they don’t want you to link to a competing newspaper.

i guess that would be deducting the obvious.

By 800 credit score BS

August 8, 2007 12:45 PM | Link to this

I didn’t think it is possible to have a FICO score over 800. Is that true? Cw would be lying then. I think a credit scor can only be up to 750.

By Palm Beach Burning

August 8, 2007 12:58 PM | Link to this

After reading that article in Sentinel regarding the FBI coming to Palm Beach to set up shop, I thought of movie “Mississippi Burning” when FBI came into town to investigate all the Federal Civil Rights Violations.

Looks like there are too many crooked politicians, too many crooked lawyers, and too many crooked law enforcement officials in Palm Beach County.

FBI will be knocking on everyone’s doors.

Did all this corruption contribute to driving the prices down here?

By CW is Correct

August 8, 2007 1:02 PM | Link to this

I believe CW because my FICO is 806 right now. CW pays his bills on time.

By Credit Score

August 8, 2007 1:03 PM | Link to this

You must be thinking of 850. 850 is the highest possible, but I’ve never seen one.

775 to 825 is the best I’ve ever seen, and those scores will get the same rate more than likely. That is the cream of the crop score to most lenders.

If you are under 775, get it up or expect to pay higher rates. 720 is not as good as 775, no matter how you cut the mustard, and under 700, forget it.

By 10 Commandments of Personal Finance

August 8, 2007 1:14 PM | Link to this

I just read this. This is basic and goes along with what Cw said to a point. In principal, he is on the money, but could be said in a less crude way, that’s for sure.

10 Commandments of Personal Finance

1. Thou Shalt Take Action

2. Thou Shalt Pay Off All Credit Card Debt

3. Thou Shalt Understand the Difference Between Wants and Needs

4. Thou Shalt Live on Less Than You Earn

5. Thou Shalt Pay Yourself First

6. Thou Shalt Set Financial Goals

7. Thou Shalt Educate Yourself and Be Responsible for Your Decisions

8. Thou Shalt Save and Invest

9. Thou Shalt Protect Your Finances

10. Thou Shalt Donate to Worthy Causes and Those Less Fortunate

ByJeffrey Strain, Special to TheStreet.com

By Rich R

August 8, 2007 1:44 PM | Link to this

With all the name calling and mean spirited posts on this blog, I have a problem with the removal of my post citing the article in today’s Sun Sentinel.

At this point, I really wonder what kind of actual activity takes place in the development of articles in the PB Post.

Removing my post really don’t speak well of this blog and the people who manage it.

this blog at times gets rasist, cruel, mean and and downright socially unacceptable and they remove a post citing an article pertinent to the topic of this blog.

Typical for SoFla I guess.

How funny!

By Rich R

August 8, 2007 2:32 PM | Link to this

“Snowbird couple may take Save Our Homes law to U.S. Supreme Court”

http://www.sun-sentinel.com/news/local/southflorida/sfl-flfsaveourhomes0808nbaug08,0,6553919.story

Here’s the link to the article that was removed this morning.

To the moderator - Get Real and don’t pull my posts.

By Proud Snowbird

August 8, 2007 5:02 PM | Link to this

I’d rather be a seasonal part-time affluent upper class $nowbird who easily can pay florida taxes than a full-time low asset $hitbird who struggles everyday.

By To Snowbird

August 8, 2007 9:25 PM | Link to this

We need more like you, keep on coming down and paying more than your fair share of the taxes.

By Curious

August 8, 2007 9:53 PM | Link to this

Nothing new here.

As I said before, things to dump now:

Home builders, Mortgage lenders, Investment real estate, Real Estate Investment Trusts (REITs), Most banks, insurers and brokerage firms, and Companies that depend most heavily on the above.

Things to acquire now:

Foreign currencies, Oil, Gold, Other resources.

By Ghost RIder

August 8, 2007 10:16 PM | Link to this

You forgot one more thing Curious. An X-TRA large toy.

By crazydem

August 9, 2007 8:16 AM | Link to this

Quite the investor you are Curious. Those plays are about two years behind. Good luck.

By crazydem

August 9, 2007 8:31 AM | Link to this

BTW-Curious

I just noticed that REIT’s were up 8% in yesterday’s trading. One day. Beazer went up 24% in one day. Where’s the meltdown?

By pricespotting

August 9, 2007 8:55 AM | Link to this

No surprise in latest RE bust to those of us here more than 30 yrs.

As in past busts it is interesting to watch “investors” adjust prices over time. Again, as in past, some waited too long to sell at small gain (or small loss) and now face long period of laying out carrying expenses and praying for those “rich europeans, Latin Americans, Yankees, Canadians,boomer retirees” or whoever, to rescue them.

eg:

Price History for 801 S OLIVE 1521 - West Palm Beach, FL

88 Condos For Sale Starting at $255,000.

Days On Market: 542 Current List Price: $374,000 Initial List Price: $435,000 (16.3% Reduction)

11/15/06 - Price Reduced to $419,000 02/17/07 - Price Reduced to $389,000 04/11/07 - Price Reduced to $374,000

Last sale : Feb 2005

$379,313.

Only things different this time is Fl tax situation for non SOH, and Insurance costs way higher.

By tocrazydem

August 9, 2007 9:50 AM | Link to this

Beazer stock was $73 in 2006. Now $15.

Chief acct was fired, Feds investigating for fraud.

NEW YORK, Aug 1 (Reuters) - Standard & Poor’s on Wednesday cut its ratings for Beazer Homes USA Inc. (BZH.N: Quote, Profile , Research) and may cut again, citing weak earnings and further weakness in the home builder’s operations.

“The downgrades reflect further deterioration in Beazer’s home-building operations, which prompted additional noncash charges and another quarterly earnings loss,” S&P said in a statement.

Beazer posted a quarterly loss last week as it took charges for inventory and goodwill impairments and abandonment of land option contracts. [ID:nN26429179].

“The ongoing investigation related to the company’s mortgage operations and the potential for distractions at this very difficult point in the housing cycle also contributed to the rating actions,” S&P said.

Rumors swirling around Beazer spooked U.S. markets at midday on Wednesday. Beazer’s stock fell as much as 42 percent before paring losses to trade 18 percent lower after Beazer said talk that it would file for bankruptcy was unfounded. For details, see [ID:nN01350718].

S&P lowered Beazer’s corporate credit and senior unsecured debt ratings one notch to “BB-minus,” three levels into junk territory, from “BB.”

The outlook remains negative, which means S&P could cut again in the next two years.

Beazer’s 8.375 percent notes maturing in 2012 fell 6 cents to 78 cents on the dollar on Wednesday, according to MarketAxess.

By Are any cheerleaders buying

August 9, 2007 9:54 AM | Link to this

All you cheerleaders talk a good game, but are any of you putting your money, if you have any, where your mouth is?

If this is such a great time to buy, lets hear how many properties CW and Easy have picked up?

By BIGROB

August 9, 2007 9:56 AM | Link to this

First of all I dont live in PSL.I live somewhere off forrest hill blvd west and work in delray. Im telling you this so if you are going to profile me GET IT RIGHT.Now to the subject of real estate I had hoped recovery would happen before 09 but for some reason the falsly adjusted market makes people who didnt cash out earlyer upset its like invisible money or something,a pipe dream.hind sight is a mother^%$#@.

By crazydem

August 9, 2007 10:43 AM | Link to this

To whoever (Curious),

Thank you for illustrating my point. Personally, I’m not sitting around on the sidelines waiting for the bottom. It makes no difference to me if a company files for bankruptcy or if their shares rise 20% in a day as Beazer’s did yesterday. I’ll let sideliners like you peruse Reuters and try to interpret the avalanche of data in your quest to find the bottom.

Imagine if you had saved all that money from those pasta dinners and car leases, and put it into Beazer on Monday. You’d have a heck of alot more money today regardless of what somebody says about their credit rating.

Are you looking for the next one? No, your in CD’s and sitting around waiting for the bottom. Admit it, you’re afraid of risk, plain and simple. You were afraid to buy when prices were rising and you’re afraid to buy when prices are falling.

Funny, the doomers now base their predictions on a company they’ve probably never heard of until today.

What’s next-judging the bottom on the number of calls to the “I can’t read my mortgage documents so I’m suing my lender, neighbor, realtor, builder, and bank” hotline??? Oh wait, Linda Rawls already covered that one yesterday in her “BUST” article.

By tocrazydem

August 9, 2007 11:13 AM | Link to this

relax, you brought up Beazer and asked where the meltdown was.- From over $70 to less than $15 in such a short period.

Day trading Beazer (and DHI, PHM, WCI ) recently has been fine with me. It is definately NOT for the faint of heart or those unwilling to risk losses.

Point is, if you cite a 24% gain of anything, full disclosure of that item should include recent high/low and pertinent data like S&P rating drop which will greatly increase their cost of capital, criminal investigations, and pending multiple lawsuits. Again, YOU brought up Beazer, with only part of its story.

By cw1900

August 9, 2007 12:10 PM | Link to this

“All you cheerleaders talk a good game, but are any of you putting your money, if you have any, where your mouth is?

If this is such a great time to buy, lets hear how many properties CW and Easy have picked up?”

Ok, I can’t answer for Easy, but I’ve said this over and over. No big secret here. As a matter of fact, most of you know I just bought another lake house not too many months ago, but yes, it is out of state. I own three houses in PB County at present, one I live in, two are rentals that I have owned for a number of years. Have I bought anything in PB County in the recent two years? No. The reasons are simple. If I did, it would be another SFH for the sole purpose of renting it out, and that is not a wise business decision at this point in time, plus 3 houses is enough for me to handle at this time.

However, if I was looking to buy to actually live in and stay awhile, yes, I think there are enough deseperater sellers out there, that you could find some real bargains if you do the footwork necessary. As many of us have said before, you can always find someone desperate enough to sell to you on your terms and at your price, in good times and bad, if you look hard enough. That is not cruel, it’s just looking out for yourself and taking advantage of a good deal on your terms, so don’t start with that crap again. I don’t want to hear it.

Sidenote…Do anyone of you notice that this real estate “crisis” in PB County seems to have forgotton plain land, residential lots? I don’t hear or see too many desperate owners dying to unload their vacant lot for fire sale prices. The reasons are clear. Hopefully, most people who buy lots should know to only do that with cash. Financing a vacant lot is feeding an alligator and takes away from any hoped for appreciation very rapidly. That’s why I laugh at so many of the bandwagoners heading for the hills buying their lots from glossy brochures or some south Florida radio station infomercial, exclaming the virtues of wherever new planned development, “for just $xxx down and $xxx /month (for the next gazillion years at high rates of interest…) and yes, you too can have your very own little piece of the American Dream right here in beautiful (fill in the blank)!”

That is paying full retail on a prayer that you might actually turn a profit after you add up all the interest you are paying, taxes, HOA’s over the life of that “investment, if you were to ever sell it. Again, that’s not an investment, that’s an amateur dreaming with his wife of someday retiring to sunsets in the mountains, fishing on the dock with the future grandkids, his wife up on the front porch sipping lemonade, smiling at their wonderful Utopia. I’m not making fun of that, it’s just normal, and one of my passion’s is the lake we own on, I love the place, but that way of buying real estate from very slick development companies is not very conducive to the art of making money.

Due to time constraints today, I googled an old post on this subject of myself and the following is copied from one of my old posts from just last month. I stand by these statements still….

“Let me chime in about rents. I raised the rent on one of my houses here just recently with zero problem as I told you not too long ago. I also have two parties interested in that house if the current tenant did not renew. I know other landlords who have been in the gig for quite some time also who are having zero problems. The doomers are claiming rents are low for luxury rentals, that may be the case in a few buildings. I am not disputing that as I have no experience in those types of units. As most of you know, I have two houses here in PBC that I have been renting out successfully for many years. These are simple, working class houses not in gated communities. No HOA’s. Bread and butter type of rentals. Basic and easy. The problem for many Donald Trump wannabes is that they bought units with little money down, that have high hoa’s, and look like places they would like to live in themselves. Big mistake. The risk is just too great. You can’t make the numbers work doing that. They never will, and then, otherwise fairly rational people think the world is coming to an end because of the bandwagon mistakes of a few. What they did was the equivalent of buying pets.com stock in 1999??!! Do you think a guy like Warren Buffet bought pets.com, or did he quietly buy some stock in stodgy, money making company that was ignored by the frenzied idiots? You know the answer to that.

Speaking of Warren Buffet, I would relate this rent discrepancy/disagreement to story stocks in the stock market. Those rentals on craigslist and those pasted here by Fink, Chicago boy, and others may be the desperates, the new buildings with half investor owned etc, those are, I agree, temporary problems for some, but for the Joe Lunchbucket type of SFH’s that I have been renting out, that is just not the case. Countless others can tell you the same thing. If you have no experience in this and are getting your info from the newspaper, craigslist, etc, as Max would say, there is another side to the story you are missing, and/or you simply do not know what you are talking about. Buffet does not buy story stocks, does he?

As in hyped up story stocks, they are not a true sampling of the stock market anymore than craigslist is a true sampling of the rental market in PBC. I can look you straight in the eye and tell you it has been a cakewalk for the last decade-plus in renting those two homes out. Then again, they cash flow well and I bought them years ago. I’ve also been on record here many times saying buying a house today here, strictly for a cash flow rental, is a fool’s game, unless you are buying for cash or putting well over half down. The numbers simply do not work and that is why I have bought another at the lake, because those numbers work to my favor. When you are not over-leveraged, you can make things work better to your advantage and can handle the ups and downs very easily. I have also never, not once, had to advertise for a tenant. I have told you this before also, nothing new here.

Yes, overall, rents are going up, and somebody who’s never done it before, reading their little classifieds, that have zero bearing on my little rental world, can tell me any differently. Sorry.”

Update….I just told you the other day if one of my local tenants leaves in a couple of months, and that might just happen now when the lease expires, I have two families lined up who want it bad. Again, no advertising, all word of mouth. I will say it again. I have never advertised either house I have here in PB County for rent in any print or web based publication, ever.

cw

By CW: You Wimp

August 9, 2007 12:35 PM | Link to this

Until you put your money where your mouth is and start buying properties here in PB County, then please just shut up.

You have a lot of “ifs” where you say you would buy a house.

The facts are simple, r/e here is a mess and even you, little miss cheerleader, won’t buy in this market.

That says it all.

By TO CW: You Wimp

August 9, 2007 12:48 PM | Link to this

I think Cw said he already owned 3 houses in palm Beach county. It’s probably 3 more than you own. That says it all.

By To you wimp

August 9, 2007 12:52 PM | Link to this

I would ask how many houses do you own in this county?

Telling us that you own your own trailer, but have to pay lot rent, doesnt count

The havenots are as bitter as ever.

By BIGROB

August 9, 2007 1:42 PM | Link to this

Why are people think forclosure is so bad the majority of these forclosures are happening to people that should not have bought in the first place.No money down 2 years with low payments you knew you were renting in the first place.I know its humiliating and all, but you can rent for a price you can afford I’m sick of everyone crying waaaa!the next time you make a major purchase on anything be humle there is no more keeping up with the Joneses because they are broke too.I was broke bad credit all that,but I grew up and the next time your wife goes I want a Lexus buy her a very used one because all she wants is the emlem on the hood.

By easyasabc

August 9, 2007 1:54 PM | Link to this

I am SHOCKED….just SHOCKED……reading the sun-sentinel news….and there was a story about real estate…..and reading the replies from various people, and who do I see writing on the Sun-Sentinel real estate blog….is no other than MIKE FINK !!!!!!!……this helpless, over weight pasta dish renter is now sprewing his views in another area……….I am afraid to check out the Orange County Register when I get back out west and see his name pop up out there…….

If I did buy property, whats in it for the “have nots” knowing that I did???????……

Worry about yourself and your family rental situation, and not my life……you are the ones writing out rent checks every month….I am the one who cashes them in……

Many Florida homeowners will be around for years to come to sell property to you when you do get any money…..the prices are low now, many great deals if you want to start from the bottom….if you are waiting for that mansion at a low price….forgetaboutit……

I see the “have nots” are wasting their time here……if they had money, they would have bought….. the “have nots” think that owners can control taxes and insurance rates …..sorry, you need to talk with Gov. Crist about that……in the meantime, foreclosures will be sold through the banks, and not through realtors…..the house or condo that the “have nots” are intrested in, will be sold to someone else………people like “curious” can go to the money exchange outlets and buy all the Euro’s up……..

What the sellers, realtors, and future sellers need to know, is that money is tight to give out to “have nots’….some of the sellers can wait it out and until lenders have money to give out….some of the realtors can look for new jobs until then or move away to places like Kentucky, Arkansas or North Carolina and be with Rich and Carolina Gal and eat pies and sell trailer lots….and people who are not selling, can relax and ejoy life here…..

the whole country is not selling….the whole country is not buying…..the middle class is not making money……blame it on the bankers, insurance companies, lenders, politicians and corporate america…….midlle class are the people who should be moving the market along……..don’t blame the owners if you are in a lower financial class that prices are high for you….you need to build up your savings before you can own here…..Florida is getting expensive to live in…..you need to come to that conclusion…….I still say we will see a major correction in the stock market……

In the meantime, the hurricanseason is non-exisitng, the New Yorkers are cleaning out of their storm mess…..the “half-backs” are realizing their hot summers are the same in Carolinas as in Floirda ……

What else is there to say?????

Life is good for many of us….and not so good for others……

easyasabc

By CW is a Wimp

August 9, 2007 1:58 PM | Link to this

What we are talking about here is the r/e market, and whether it makes sense to invest now.

CW wants people to buy, but he doesn’t have the guts to do so himself.

As for me, I think prices will continue to come down, and I will NOT be investing in this market anytime soon.

It doesn’t really matter if CW bought houses a few decades ago. My question to him is why doesn’t he follow his own advice and buy now? Do you know why he won’t, b/c he’s scared of this market. And if he won’t follow his own advice, he should just keep his big mouth shut.

By Not bitter

August 9, 2007 2:09 PM | Link to this

I’m a “have-not” and I not bitter. I always took the easy way out. I never did any stupid homework in school. Homework is for the nerds and geeks! All my teachers were a-holes and I hated all those nerd kids who studied because they were not cool like me and my buds. I used to bully them bad! I quit school early because I could make some real big money ripping off seenile older geeks in one of my many “service” jobs. I have been a roofer, handyman, gardener, car salesman, drivern and HVAC service tech. I hate all these so called professional types like doctors, lawyers, accountants, bankers, business- owners, bank employees and anyone else who is stupid enough to wear a tie or even a shirt with a collar. Most of all I hate all landlords because they are all scum who think they’re better’n me. When I need something, I either scam it, rent to own it or steal it! I am NOT bitter, I just am smarter than you basterds who THINK your better’n me! I am smarter than youall because I pay no taxes and i get free healthcare by calling 911 and giving a fake name. I eat in nice restaurants like dennys and friday’s and then pretnd to go to the bathroom and slip out the door. I never pay nothing!!! Me not Bittrer, I just stole this laptop in starbucks from some rich yuppy creep. So whose better off you or me? Suckers.

By To cw is a wimp

August 9, 2007 2:37 PM | Link to this

You sir, are a moron…there is a time, place and situation for everything. cw, like myself, is already invested in a primary residence and 2 rental properties (and that’s just PB county). Maybe he doesn’t have the extra time to supervise an additional property or maybe he doesn’t have the liquid cash available at the current moment. Who knows, who cares. He is only stating in his opinion that it is a good market to buy in IF you can find a decent cash flow positive property (for investment) or get a great price on a primary residence. You sideliners keep thinking that you will pick up all these cheap foreclosed properties soon or find someone desparate enough and pay pennies on the dollar. Grow up. Most of those foreclosed properties will be gobbled up before they even hit the courthouse steps and so many owners are upside down that they will wait it out before they sell.

Personally I wish I had a million bucks laying around, I would be searching for more investment properties to rent to schmucks like you…

By Not bitter is . . . . .

August 9, 2007 2:43 PM | Link to this

Not bitter is alias Curious, alias, Chicago boy, alias Dot.

Not bitter is VERY BITTER and VERY JEALOUS woman realtor who does not have a pot to pi$$ in.

Not bitter is a neurotic psycopath who did not get enough attention from her parents growing up. Yes, she wants the easy way out in life allright. Not bitter is just another lazy a$$ realtor who can’t make a buck these days.

Everyone and anyone can get the best of Not bitter/Curious/Chicago Boy and whatever other name she chooses. Face it dearie, there are other realtors out there that are selling and working hard at it. They are not like you waiting for someone to hand it to you on a silver platter. Why don’t you go find yourself another widow you can rip off these days. That’s the best you can do and that tells all what you are.

BTW, you have a CRIMINAL mind. That will catch up with you someday BI#CH.

By CW aka Wimp Boy

August 9, 2007 4:30 PM | Link to this

Seriously, have any of you losers bought a property here in PB County in the last six months?

Anyone?

If not, then shut up, you losers.

You have a lot of advice with other people’s money, but you are just plain too chicken to invest your own money now.

And to the “land baron” above with 2 rentals, why aren’t you buying? Here’s your answer: R/E here sucks right now.

You sound like one of those doom and gloomers with a “time and place for everything”. I think you agree with the gloom and doomers that now is NOT the time to buy.

Actions speak louder than words, and your actions say it all: DO NOT BUY R/E NOW IN PB COUNTY!

By Hitlery Clintoon

August 9, 2007 5:00 PM | Link to this

I cannot buy in PB County at this time because I cannot find someone to lend me the downpayment. Formerly loose borrowing guidelines are now tightened up and I no longer am considered to be a “qualified” buyer with my low-wage job. in spite of what I read here my rent has gone up because my lousy landlord said property tax reform is BS and his insurance costs have increased. I WILL NOT BUY IN PB COUNTY CAUSE I CAN’T Only rich people of means can afford to live here now. Cheap Florida is RUINED by the carpetbaggers who pay cash for everything and have no mortgage. Well screw’em I’m going to the great smokey mountains, where its both beautiful and cheap to live.

By FL Renaissance

August 9, 2007 5:06 PM | Link to this

Excellent post above…the toilet flush is unabated and the gentrification continues.

By Nope

August 9, 2007 5:25 PM | Link to this

emptification continues. More foreclosures, owners upside down.

Spin all you want, you continue looking rather silly.

By Bitter owner

August 9, 2007 5:53 PM | Link to this

I decided to jump on the real estate bandwagon and bought a house in early 2005 for about 600,000 with only 1% down. I only make about 50,000 per year, so I got an arm. My rate has reset, I can’t afford the payments, and I’m getting nasty letters from the bank. I can’t sell the place and its nearly impossible to even have people come look at it. My credit is being ruined and I’m scared to answer my phone.

But on the plus side, at least I’m a “have” and Max, CW, FL Renaissance, and Easy will think that I’m a “winner”.

By TravelMax.com

August 9, 2007 5:58 PM | Link to this

Max can’t resist checking in from the road after a one-day 400 point drop in the stock market.

Is there still a human being left alive who is too stupid to understand that the BUBBLE is in the stock market —not the housing market?

The housing doomers here will not comment because they don’t even understand the disaster that is taking place on Wall Street — all because of the tight credit they love. After my post the matter will disappear as idiot after idiot ignores the stock market meltdown.

By FL Renaissance

August 9, 2007 6:42 PM | Link to this

No spin here. The owners who are now “upside down” are those who should NOT have bought in the firstplace. They are mostly those caught in the subprime mortgage debacle and never would have qualified under much prudent lending guidelines. I do not dispute the rising foreclosure numbers nor do I encourage the unqualified to attempt to buy now or at any time. Any fool who overextends him/herself is just that, a fool! As these “unqualifieds”lose their homes, they will eventually be replaced by those who truly do qualify under much stricter lending guidelines. Hence the upgrading of owners in fine properties. Sure it may several years to sort out but I really don’t care. The end result is that only those who are qualified to be in homes will be in homes…all others can hit the road in search of less competitive locations. If you are already here and are not “upside-down” stay put,you’ll be just fine! If you’re a renter and you think you can pick up a great bargain from a distressed seller go for it! However, if you are waiting for an even bigger decline in asking prices, don’t be disappointed if that doesn’t happen happen. I really don’t care. You can continue to rent from me as long as you maintain a stable income, pay your rent on time and I approve of your family and visiting friends. Otherwise move on and make room for those who are used to much higher income taxes, personal property taxes, sales taxes, home heating costs, land costs, food, clothing and transportation costs. Who are we who gentrifies? Those of us who’ve already have made our money elsewhere in far more expensive counties, cities and states. To us Florida living costs are comparatively very low. Truth be told, with the exception of Palm Beach proper, FL was really never an acceptable place to reside in years past. Finally, economics now dictates that the drifters, scammers and fixed income pensioners must move on out. Unfortunately that doesn’t apply to the politicos who are as hard as any cockroach to stomp out. Yet, thanks to the likes of the PGA crowd and widely published pictures of boating bikini babes of South Beach, a truly international crowd desires to be a part of the Gold Coast. To tweak the wordsof easyasabc “life is good in Palm Beach especially during the season when I’m here.”

By nope

August 9, 2007 9:27 PM | Link to this

Fl Ren not only silly sounding. Silly AND verbose.

Magnanimously does not dispute the rising foreclosure numbers, however.

Guess that makes it official, foreclosures ARE on the rise. I thought I was just imagining it and the county officials unable to keep up with the filings were just joshing.

Now that Fl Ren has spoken it must be true. He has been so correct over the past months about everything else, right ?

By My Story

August 9, 2007 11:05 PM | Link to this

I am a homeowner before the boom. During the boom years, I thought the bubble would burst when the median price for a home reached 300k. It just didn’t make sense what was going on.

For years, I wanted to move into a larger home due to a growing family but I waited. I finally gave in. In 2005, I decided it was time to build the home our family wanted. In that given time the sky was the limit and homes were selling in 30 days.

We decided to wait to sell our existing home when we were close to our new home being built. Why sell our existing home and put my family in a unfamiliar setting was my thinking for not selling my home when I signed a contract.

The rest is history. I have moved into our new home but unable to sell our existing home. Luckily, I have it rented out. It wasn’t plan A. Considering my down payment is in my equity built on my original home. Quite frankly, I can’t even give it away. While there are many people who are upside down due to greed, there are also many innocent people caught in the transition.

I can afford my new home, however, I need to sell my original home to make the numbers work. I can only hope to hang on until I sell my original home. If I can’t sell my original home, I might have to go back to that house. It might not be our dream house but it’s still beautiful.

I feel at times I’m treading water and aspirating water at times.It’s not fun.

By FL Renaissance

August 10, 2007 2:45 AM | Link to this

To My Story: I really am sorry to hear about your unfortunate real estate market timing. However since you already have a renter and are already in your new home..this might be a blessing in disguise for you. Why, because now by becoming a landlord you have created a “small business” for yourself. Sure you have to do a Schedule E and declare your rental income from house number one but you can write off all mortgage payments, real estate taxes, home owners insurance and importantly depreciation expense. All attorneys fees, travel to and from visits to your now “investment” property and all repairs as well. If you hold on to this property for over one year it will qualify for a low (15%)long-term capital gains tax tate or if you have to sell at a loss, you can do a loss carry forward which can be used to offset any future investment capital gains from any investments not only real estate but stocks or mutual funds as well. In effect you have created your own tax shelter which can be used to offset your personal income. This is how we wealthy get even richer and just think you lucked into it! Were I you I would get a good tax accountant to validate this advice and to set you up with the proper schedules. If you can swing both houses for a few years, and have the stomach to be a business like landlord, you’ll have the last laugh when the market turns as it eventually will. The only cavet is NO CONDOS, they are going NOWHERE. If hopefully they’re SFH in a neighborhood with decent schools and no gang bangers you’ll do fine with a little belt tightening and frugality. Learn to keep your head above water. Nothing wrong with treading water for a while until the tide turns. It always does for the prudent ones. Good luck to you, been there and done it!

By Appraisals

August 10, 2007 9:43 AM | Link to this

Anyone care to prognosticate on how appraisers will handle new values ?

Some recent sales have been below past appraisal by PBC for tax. (4000 N Ocean Dr 1101, sold 07/07 600K

Last sale 01/03 650K

2006 Appraisal $701,680 Taxes $16,502)

Thousands more properties languishing on mkt have reduced asking prices near or below PBC appraisals.

Will next appraisals have to recognize lower selling price and appraise lower? If so, will tax be lower or will rates change to prevent PBC losing more revs ?

The county clerks are facing massive workloads between appeals for lower appraisals and foreclosure activity at record levels. Get paperwork in asap if appealing.

By CW/FLREN Wimps

August 10, 2007 9:52 AM | Link to this

You cheerleaders are very impressive. The only guy that has bought anything recently sounds like he is in tough shape.

CW and Florida Renaissance, you are either cowards or poor, since you either can’t or won’t buy in this market. Either way, you are not someone worth listening to.

By Max Buys

August 10, 2007 10:09 AM | Link to this

Even on vacation, Max can’t pass up a cute building. It must be some type of sublimation stemming from the frustration of being in a monogamous relationship.

Anyway, if the deal goes through, it will run at about a 12% cap rate. Only a few of you will understand what this means. People like RCA or Fink will have no idea what it means in practical terms, why I will never want to sell it, and why I will never care about whether the real estate market is “up” or “down.”

As I predicted, the real story out there, the dangerous liquidity crisis caused by the Fed’s cavalier maintenance of unsustainable interest rates, is being ignored by all the nit-wits here, who are still arguing about whether people should have bought in 2005 or whatever.

The DOW is down 500 points in 2 days, and the stupidest of the stupidest among you are still talking about a “housing” bubble.

Enjoy your fiddle while Rome burns.

By cw1900

August 10, 2007 10:52 AM | Link to this

Well, well, well, we must have struck a nerve with a new doomer.

I’ve been called an a$$hole, idiot, cheerleader, moron, loser, liar, dirtbag, and countless others. I have been told I am going to heII for making fun of little boy diddling priests telling people to stick plastic figurines upside down in their yard to help sell their house. I have been told to go to heII countless times, I even remember one guy that wished I would fall off a bridge, lol. Now the newest doomer to find his way here, apparently unhappy with his lot in life, nows calls me a wimp, not once, but 4 times. This morning, he now calls me a coward. I’ll just add that to the growing list of names. Lighten up sparky.

BTW, to set the record straight, I didn’t buy my houses “decades” ago. The first rental here in the county was bought in the early 90s. It was my first house. I lived in it, and then moved up and kept it. The second was bought a few years later. I’ve been very clear on that. “Decades” ago, I was a kid. I’m now in my early 40s.

I’m not scared of the market, quite the opposite. If you read what I’ve said, is that it is not a good market here currently to be purchasing a house or condo strictly for the business of renting it out. Unless you are buying for cash, or putting 50% down, something like that, the numbers are not going to work. However, if you’re buying a house to live in, you can find great deals. It’s a buyer’s market, right, you doomers? I haven’t the need to buy anything at this time. I’ve said that many times before. I’m happy with the home we live in, and the rentals are fine. The percentage of my networth that is in real estate is plenty. As those ratios change over time, then so will my buying and/or selling. Nothing sinister there, sparky.

If you want to know what I’m investing in next, that’s simple. I will be using the “Buy on maximum pessimism” approach. I will be putting my money where my mouth is. Max is right. I’m letting this stock market correction unfold a bit more, and then I’ll be buying what Curious is not. That’s what makes a market. I already own shares of ExxonMobil and a driller, so I’ve already got oil related stocks. What I don’t have is any bank stocks. Once this bloodbath beats them down some more, some money sitting on the sidelines in cw1900’s brokerage accounts is going to used to buy shares of some bank stocks, but not just yet. I’m also going to bottom feed on one housing stock. Which one? Not sure yet, but that ought to stir up some discussion.

What I find funny is the same people telling me to go blow, like this wimp boy here, is that their household income is probably where mine is, maybe a little less, maybe a little more. It’s no secret what income class I’m in. Our household income is around $150k. You can figure that out if you’ve read my posts before. That number does not include any rental income. Any income off of stocks I’m not counting as that just gets reinvested anyway. My wife is teacher, so what does that tell you. It says I don’t make over 100k. We’re not rich by any stretch. I don’t have a masters degree or a law degree, just a 4 year degree from a state university. I may have grown up in tony southwestern CT, but you’d never know it if you met me. I’m not in the same league as FL Ren, Max, probably Easy, and a few others here. Why am I different from you, though? Why is my networth much more than what statistically people who make twice what I make is? Why do you drive a better car than I do? Why do I have 3 houses here, two vacation rental houses on a nice lake, and a few very nice lots around said lake area? It’s probably because I bypassed the keeping up with the Jones’ route and lived within my means. That money I didn’t pi$$ away, I turned it into more money, and then I did it again and again. It’s that simple. No magic formula, and if you don’t like it, I can’t help you. If you want it, then change the way you save and spend, and do something about it. Big Rob gets it. He apparently does the same thing from the sounds of his last post. Do I want to end up like FL Ren appears to live? You bet. Right now, they probably wouldn’t let me through the guard shack of his development. Does that bother me? No. I don’t sit here and stew about what other people make and how much better they have it than me. I live my life and control my urges to buy the plasma tv and not pi$$ away my financial future by running up the helocs so I can impress the neighbors with the $40k SUV in the driveway. Get it? If you don’t, there are plenty of people here who need to be slapped upside their head and have some financial sense shoved in their face. If not by me, then by somebody they know and trust who can make them see how stupid they are being.

I liked the “Not bitter” and “Hitlery Clintoon” posts. Both the same person I think. I don’t think he is bitter. I think he’s being sarcastic. It shows the doomers how silly they sound. I bet that’s from Signed. Hey Big Rob, great post out of you yesterday afternoon. You get it. You’re right. “Why are people think forclosure is so bad the majority of these forclosures are happening to people that should not have bought in the first place.” That’s it. FL Ren just backed you up on that. “I was broke bad credit all that,but I grew up”. You apparently saw the light. Tell the doomers here who are buried up to their necks in debt why they will always be doomers.

“Bitter owner”, if that post is true and not another sarcastic post, is a poster boy of what not to do and what I just described above. 50k, 600k, 1%. Those numbers together equate to mathematical vulgarity and nothing will stop that train wreck from ending up in a pile of rubble. You’re screwed. Learn from your mistakes.

“My Story”…..all I can say to you is, I think you figured out where you went wrong, frenzied people got the best of you, but you sound like you’ll work it out. You were borderline it seems, but nobody can fault you for doing what you thought was best for your family. Listen to FL Ren, he knows what he speaks. Turn this into a positive. The doomers here will tell you otherwise, but don’t listen to them. With a little sacrifice on your part now, years later, you’ll have something the doomers will never have.

Max is buying. He’s putting his money where his mouth is. He’s looking ahead to the future, so he is doing what? He is buying on maximum pessimism. That’s it. Now you’ve got it, you doomers.

From Max….. “Enjoy your fiddle while Rome burns.” Best line of the day.

Have a nice weekend everybody.

cw

By crazydem

August 10, 2007 11:54 AM | Link to this

Life is good with your own roof over your head in Palm Beach County!

Blood is in the streets, even the Fed is getting scared, pumping money in to prop things up. Should be interesting to see where this is heading.

Plenty of bargains coming, but IMHO you’re smart to wait CW. After such a run up you can’t buy at 3% off a high. I think even our investments boy lost money on commodities yesterday, haven’t verified that though, no need to.

Golf this weekend anyone? Thinking of picking up some used clubs off craigslist myself. These stockbrokers should probably be off-loading their high-priced toys here pretty soon as the panic level shoots up. Remember what they say “anyone who expects no worse after bad is mistaken.” It’s nice to have your own roof over your head, at least that’s no going anywhere.

Suspect the number of Polo shirts available for $3.50 at the thrift store should increase here as the renters toss their keys on the table and leave town without the contents of their overpriced condo in their car. Maybe some nice Pottery Barn furniture will start showing up on their soon. Nice of the banks to think of the little guy and donate that stuff to charity. Some nice people working in those stores, just trying to get by best they can, no pretensions, no shiny black beamers on $699/month lease payments. Not judging you by the clothes you wear.

Yes, as easy say, life is good here, especially when you’re in a cash position and there’s fear everywhere. Have a great weekend everyone!

By Clueless

August 10, 2007 11:54 AM | Link to this

This CW seems to think $150,000 is not big money! What planet is he living in? If my wife and me made that kind of scratch, I tell you I’d be living fine. Anybody who makes that kind of dough and says they arent rich is either clueless or clueless. Most familys don’t comec close to that in this area. If you make 100 grand, your not poor. Some of you make me sick. Try living on $60,000. Then you tell me if 150,000 isnt rich.

By Realist

August 10, 2007 11:59 AM | Link to this

TravelMax.com :

You are such a tool. The stock market is not the bubble the credit market is. God you are either the worst liar I have ever seen or the dumbest. Unsustainable interest rates? Are effing serious? Time to snort a little more, maybe you will make more sense. Max how are your builder stocks you recommended to us last fall doing? HA hA ha. I told you then only a fool would buy them.

By easyasabc

August 10, 2007 12:05 PM | Link to this

Very busy morning for most of you….even late last nite it seems……the guy who sneaks out of paying dinner bills and has it good….I hope he was kidding…..but that type of person tells us the IQ level we have here among the “have nots”…….

The Feds has already input money twice today for the fall out of the market…..people are begging for Greenspan to come back……..the Feds might do an emergency meeting to lower the intrest rate to move the real estate in this country……Trump is saying a full 1%……….

I had to laugh at this one…..homeowners who thought that because their lender claimed bankruptcy, they didn’t have to make payments anymore……how dumb can people be today??????

The last thing the banks want right now is a major influx of foreclosures on their hands……people will have to refix their terms on their mortgage……everyone will be better off in the long run……

CW…..you have to start saying to these have nots…. “sticks and stones may hurt my bones….”

The boys on Wall St. are just screwing the soon-to-be retirement “baby boomers” on their retirement accounts now…….it is all about GREED…….

I know people ho have masters degrees, make over 100k, working the past 20 years….have big homes, boats, cars and drink their non-McDonalds coffee every morning……and guess what???..they have only about $20k in cash……if anything happen to any of them, i.e. job loss, illness, lawsuit, divorce……they are screwed………..

Corporate america is worried…..no one is buying their cars & appliances…..you think it has to deal with the intrest rate and home market????????

Ten !!!!!….the sun rating outside now…….

Nine !!!!…..the latest forecast of hurricanes this season……

Eight !!!!…the number of customers Carolina Gal will have over in her trailer tonight…..

It’s the weekend……be good and play nice……time to go off and snooze under a palm tree after I have lunch with my lady friend…….

easyasabc

By To Richy RichR

August 10, 2007 12:35 PM | Link to this

130k, 150k? That is alot of money, even here. Come on, get real. I get a kick out of folks who complain about how it is hard to live off a 100k what a joke. if you can’t live off 100k you are living too high up the hog. come down to earth and live with us folks making half that. we make it. maybe i just don’t know what you mean by thats not alot of money.

By Realist is STILL an Idiot

August 10, 2007 12:59 PM | Link to this

Max able to check in again.

Realist is still an idiot, some things never change.

If you don’t consider a 500 drop in the Dow in 2 days a “stock market problem” … well, we already KNOW you are an imbecile.

As far as home-builder stocks, I warned everyone they are a LONG-TERM hold, that they may go down before they go up. The ones I have are not down much more than the S&P, and I am not having any problem with them. BTW, some pay good dividends.

Your problem in understading this, Realshit, is that you have the same mentality as the folks who bought houses and thought they would flip them in a year without adding any value.

If you are going to buy stocks OR real estate as a day trader or swing trader, proceed at your own risk.

Meantime I continue to buy real estate that makes money, regardless of the ups and downs of the market, and I don’t have to run a bait shop like Realishit.

I admit though, I am sure Realshit is a master baiter.

LOL

By Realist is STILL an Idiot

August 10, 2007 1:00 PM | Link to this

Max able to check in again.

Realist is still an idiot, some things never change.

If you don’t consider a 500 drop in the Dow in 2 days a “stock market problem” … well, we already KNOW you are an imbecile.

As far as home-builder stocks, I warned everyone they are a LONG-TERM hold, that they may go down before they go up. The ones I have are not down much more than the S&P, and I am not having any problem with them. BTW, some pay good dividends.

Your problem in understading this, Realshit, is that you have the same mentality as the folks who bought houses and thought they would flip them in a year without adding any value.

If you are going to buy stocks OR real estate as a day trader or swing trader, proceed at your own risk.

Meantime I continue to buy real estate that makes money, regardless of the ups and downs of the market, and I don’t have to run a bait shop like Realishit.

I admit though, I am sure Realshit is a master baiter.

LOL

By Realist is STILL an Idiot

August 10, 2007 1:00 PM | Link to this

Max able to check in again.

Realist is still an idiot, some things never change.

If you don’t consider a 500 drop in the Dow in 2 days a “stock market problem” … well, we already KNOW you are an imbecile.

As far as home-builder stocks, I warned everyone they are a LONG-TERM hold, that they may go down before they go up. The ones I have are not down much more than the S&P, and I am not having any problem with them. BTW, some pay good dividends.

Your problem in understading this, Realshit, is that you have the same mentality as the folks who bought houses and thought they would flip them in a year without adding any value.

If you are going to buy stocks OR real estate as a day trader or swing trader, proceed at your own risk.

Meantime I continue to buy real estate that makes money, regardless of the ups and downs of the market, and I don’t have to run a bait shop like Realishit.

I admit though, I am sure Realshit is a master baiter.

LOL

By CW - Good Point

August 10, 2007 1:27 PM | Link to this

CW - Good point:

You show that your net worth is out of proportion to that of many people with higher incomes. And this, if I may add, despite fluctuations in the R/E market.

I think some of the folks here should appreciate that you are trying to help, and compromise your own privacy in doing so.

Before signing off, a few observations:

1) The hysteria of the doomers and the press has now CREATED an atmosphere where it is acceptable for anyone to walk away from a house, and let it be foreclosed, any time they find it inconvenient to hold on to it. The idiotic predictions for 70% price drops in the median price, or a “new depression” make the most careless owner seem like an innocent victim of circumstance. Yes, we are going to see the number of foreclosures increase dramatically — as long as you all provide a window of opportunity for people to do so with impunity.

2) The egregiously horrible management by Bernanke and Company is making the foreclosure situation worse, along with liquidity problems in the credit market. These people have to demonstrate some minimal competence in doing their job, or be removed.

3) I agree 100% with Cramer’s assessment, even if I am not quite that emotional about it. The Fed is flirting with disaster if it does not “open the dicout window.” I can not fly as high as Cramer in his knowledge of finance, but I am satisified to know my trail follows his flight.

By Realist

August 10, 2007 1:36 PM | Link to this

Well maxi you boxed yourself in. Why is the stock market tanking? Answer the credit bubble and resulting real estate bubble!! I tried to warn you and others however it’s too late to do anything now enjoy the ride.

By My Story

August 10, 2007 1:41 PM | Link to this

I want to thank Fl Renaissance and CW for their post and advice. Hindsight is 20/20.I probably should have sold my house when I put the contract on the new one. I’ll try to survive. Thanks.

By crazydem

August 10, 2007 1:45 PM | Link to this

Lunch hour word is the bank’s were determing the worth of securities. Nobody knows the level of loss they are hiding on their books.

Party’s over!

Good luck finding a mortgage lender Mike!

By fly news

August 10, 2007 3:04 PM | Link to this

More gossip from the neighborhood that is run by a brooklyn mafia wannebe named azzurro, and the area is called saratoga bay. It a very nice gated community from what the residents have said. There is just one little problem, and its due to the board members. The jerks who run it are crooks. The president is a proclaimed mafia boss who runs the gambling on a local casino ship. Several retired lawyers and accountants who are residents have asked for an audit on the books, and the board members will not answer to their request. And then there is the missing funds from the reserves. One resident who golfs with our group said they are acting like true criminals. Two members already have jumped ship. Two new members want answers from the remaining three board members. If you like to meet the board members and read their newsletters, please do.

http://saratogabay.com/

saratoga bay has many dirty secrets among its residents. There is another meeting next week to discuss about neighbors suing neighbors, missing funds, over spending of legal fees, neighborhood work not being done, etc. Another expense came in last week for a broken front gate of over $1,000. But there was an excuse on that, the president’s family member broke the gate with his Audi, and it will be up to the residents to pay for it. They do have cameras, but they do not work and the mafia president received a kick-back from the installer, a friend of his.. He also gets a kick-back from the landscape company who maintain the grounds. The resident told me that 54% of the budget goes to the landscapers. Sad to see this happen, but my golfing partners also have similar problems in bear island, saratoga pointe and in bear estates. See what happens to people who belong to hoa’s.

By What is Realshit Talking About?

August 10, 2007 3:37 PM | Link to this

Boxed myself in to what, Realshit? And you warned me about WHAT?

The problem we are talking about is mismanagement by the Fed, with an unprecedented 17 straight rate hikes. The stock market is being affected by these problems, because that’s where the bubble is and that is where the vulnerability is — you don’t see the median price of houses lose 4% in 2 days — and who knows where this can stop?

We can be back at Dow 10,000 in the blink of an eye, with trillions of dollars of equity lost — and some absolute idiots on this blog are still talking about a housing bubble in the midst of all the REAL problems.

By Realist

August 10, 2007 3:58 PM | Link to this

WTF? You are telling us there was no credit bubble?!! Why did the FED raise the rates 17 times? Because Greenspan created the credit bubble with free money for way too long. Where did you go to school? U of M? You should have paid attention more in class. God, you are pathetic in your blather and complete nonsense. I liked your answer about the recommendations about the builder stocks. Good thing you bought them for the long term!!!! God you lost a ton of money in the short and medium term!! Such a tool. Moron, here is how you make money, buy low sell high. So let’s go over your assets: real estate in Palm Beach County and builder stocks!!! Please excuse me as I laugh my way to the bank today!!!!!!

By to cw1900

August 10, 2007 11:16 PM | Link to this

“50k, 600k, 1%. Those numbers together equate to mathematical vulgarity and nothing will stop that train wreck from ending up in a pile of rubble. You’re screwed. Learn from your mistakes.”

mathematical vulgarity, i’m going to use that with my students. very clever.

roflmao.

By Steve

August 11, 2007 2:30 AM | Link to this

If flippers think it’s bad now, wait until credit card companies raise their interest rates. That’s next.

By sales

August 11, 2007 8:53 AM | Link to this

More recent sales illustrate how prices got out of sync with sustainable mkt.

EG :

9962 Equus Cir

Sold 07/07 $990K

Sold 09/05 $1,050,000.

Sold 12/04 $895K

So many buyers in 2005/2006 were caught up in “irrational exuberance” they were able to temporarily distort the mkt. During that temporary distortion a lot of sellers did very well. Flippers who did not get greedy dumped before the inevatable corrections and also did very well.

Those who believed prices like those in 2005/2006 would only rise forever without mkt correction ignored history. Same things happened before, will happen again.

The above property sale for 990K in 2007 is more realistic an increase from the 2004 895K.

The 2005 buyer who paid over a million took a shot, and has at least hopefully learned and will be ready for next bubble.

By Realist

August 11, 2007 11:27 AM | Link to this

Maxi,

Good thing you have family money you will need to borrow to cover your losses!! I have always been proud to be self made myself but that’s just me.

Good day!

By Realshit fails again

August 11, 2007 11:44 AM | Link to this

Realshit - If it were possible to separate my holdings from my family’s, the results between you and me would be the same.

You are a nobody in the financial world, Realshit — an absolute nobody.

Why don’t you stop bragging about your paltry finances and try to do something helpful for your neighbors? For one, you could admit that the prediction of a 70% decline in the median house price is an outright lie propagated by profiteers and a******s.

By What the Doomers Have Accomplished

August 11, 2007 12:12 PM | Link to this

What has the hysteria on the part of the press and Doomers across the coutry accomplished:

1) It has made walking away from a house with impunity absolutely acceptable. Why take any responsbility? If I’m John Doe ad I just got transferred, fix-up and closing costs to sell my house might cost me 20K. Why bother? Just walk away from it! After all, everyone knows from the doomers that we’re just a bunch of half-wits who made a mistake! No reason to punish us. Besides, how can you investigate a million foreclosures and see who really made an effort to rent or sell the house and repay his loan?

2) All the total b******t about the “sub-prime meltdown” has put Wall Street at the mercy of stock-market manipulators. All an unscrupulous company has to do now is load up on Puts and then announce some problem in the sub-prime market as though it were news, then watch the Dow drop 200 points in a day.

3) Thge stage is being set for the biggest round of flipping in history. What happens to all those foreclosed houses? The bank gets rid of them on short sales, and then they get flipped. Flipping should be one of the most profitable careers for the next couple of years.

Congratulations, idiots, for making your worst nightmares come true.

From the air and from the road,

Max

By nope

August 11, 2007 2:32 PM | Link to this

How predictable. Cheerleader who helped push prices beyond reason, with constant “prices rising as we speak” type drivel, accepts no responsibility for their part in RE mess.

Instead of constant Polyanna analysis why weren’t you clowns fighting SOH two tier tax system and Ins mess that has helped kill RE in SoFl ?

The credit crunch is only the latest blow and some of you will still spin any way you can to avoid facing reality.

You have all been so wrong for so long it is amazing some of you still think your posts are anything else but fascinating examples of self-delusion.

By welcome back Max

August 11, 2007 2:45 PM | Link to this

It’s nice to hear Max again.

By realist

August 11, 2007 3:13 PM | Link to this

Great idea Max, flip real estate. Let’s look at your options. Option 1. Borrow against your home builder stock. Problem there lost 50% of value so that idea is out. Option 2. Borrow against your Boca properties. Problem there, the bank will just laugh when you offer Palm Beach County condos as collateral to buy more Palm Beach County real estate. Option 3. Admit defeat and suck up some more family money (if there really is any). By the way how is that 100 percent financing working out for you? Please God in my next life please don’t make as stupid and greedy as Maxi.

By Mike Fink

August 11, 2007 4:27 PM | Link to this

For anyone who has not heard, if you want to buy a condo in S. FL and need a loan, you better do it soon. Many of the lenders are pulling ALL the condo lines in FL; that’s right, NO LENDING at all, no matter what the FICO/downpayment on FL condos.

That’s going to do wonderful things for the value, condos as a cash transation only? That’s even worse then the scenerio that I had thought was “worst case”.

Now, before all the cheerleaders jump on me, YES, you can still get a loan for condos in FL, only some of the lenders pulled the lines. However, one thing that is becoming VERY common, and likely, by the end of next week will be everywhere is the huge increase in price of non-conforming loans.

What’s a non-conforming loan? Well, there are quite a few things that can make a loan fall into that category, credit score, debt to value, and loan size.

For the purpose of this conversation, suffice to say, any non-conforming loan (over ~410K loan amount, sub-prime FICO, less then 20% down) just shot up by over 100 basis points in the past few days. The market for these types of loans has totally evaporated. If this situation does not recify soon it will be a serious blow to the mid-range/high-end market. Also, expect anyone who does write condo loans in FL to charge a large spread above prime for the loan; much like a jumbo, they are taking on dramatically more risk (and FINALLY REALIZE IT) then writing a conforming loan product.

Got cash?

By BetterHaveCash

August 11, 2007 5:00 PM | Link to this

From NY Times online today -

“In Credit Crisis, Large Mortgages Grow Costly ” By FLOYD NORRIS and ERIC DASH

“When an investment banker set out to buy a $1.5 million home on Long Island last month, his mortgage broker quoted an interest rate of 8 percent. Three days later, when the buyer said he would take the loan, the mortgage banker had bad news: the new rate was 13 percent.

“I have been in the business 20 years and I have never seen” such a big swing in interest rates, said the broker, Bob Moulton, president of the Americana Mortgage Group in Manhasset, N.Y.

“There is a lot of fear in the markets,” he added. “When there is fear, people have a tendency to overreact.”

The investment banker’s problem was that he was taking out a so-called jumbo mortgage — a loan greater than the $417,000 mortgage that can be sold to the federally chartered enterprises, Freddie Mac and Fannie Mae. The market for large mortgages has suddenly dried up.

For months after problems appeared in the subprime mortgage market — loans to customers with less-than-sterling credit — government officials and others voiced confidence that the problem could be contained to such loans. But now it has spread to other kinds of mortgages, and credit markets and stock markets around the world are showing the effects.

Those with poor credit, whether companies or individuals, are finding it much harder to borrow, if they can at all. It appears that many homeowners who want to refinance their mortgages — often because their old mortgages are about to require sharply higher monthly payments — will be unable to do so.

Some economists are trimming their growth outlook for the this year, fearing that businesses and consumers will curtail spending.

“In the last 60 days, we’ve seen a substantial reduction in mortgage availability,” said Robert Barbera, the chief economist of ITG, a brokerage firm. “That in turn suggests that home purchases will fall further. Rising home prices were the oil that greased the wheel of this engine of growth, and falling home prices are the sand in the gears that are causing it to grind to a halt.””

By Realist

August 11, 2007 6:21 PM | Link to this

Ok Max what about the dollar? What do you think will happen to the already cratered dollar if they lower rates? The super low rates caused rampant speculation. Why do think the Fed should bail moron speculators like you? Max do you even know what the Feds only role in life is? I will tell you, it is to fight inflation. Nowhere in it’s charter does it say it was created to keep the credit and resulting housing bubble going. Max et al, the party is over, time to go home (your overleveraged home that is).

By Curious

August 11, 2007 6:25 PM | Link to this

Looks like some of the same old graveyard whistlers are back — having grown little, learned nothing, just as insecure and trepidatious as before and still blathering profanities and personal attacks against other posters who do not share their blind wishes and delusions.

Aah well, …

By Mike Fink

August 11, 2007 7:16 PM | Link to this

Max,

The problem with your agrument is that the Fed funds rate is not even that high on a historic basis. Here is a link with all the Fed fund rates and changes for the last 16 years. Our current rate is certainly not out of line high.

http://www.the-privateer.com/rates.html

The problem, and the one you keep refusing to see, is that people are grossly overextended on homes. I was told that I qualified for a 100% MTG amount of over 1M dollars about a year ago. That would have grossly overextended me, but not anywhere near the extent that other are now stretched.

And, honestly, anyone who bought in the past 5-6 years, why on EARTH would you take an ARM??? What were you thinking, that the Fed funds rate was going to go negative (paying you to borrow money)?? The rate was already so low that it was cheaper to borrow money then to not (because inflation was running higher then the Fed funds rate).

Max, we do have a problem with liquidity, I will give you that. But, take away the subprime and Alt-A morgages and this game is over… You have to see that; it only takes about 5 seconds of math to figure it out; median home price of 400K, median income of 55K. You tell me how well that’s going to work out.

By cash problems

August 11, 2007 8:56 PM | Link to this

This talk about lenders not giving out loans for condos in Fla., is it here only or in other states? It would seem that if a mortgage crisis is happening across the country, why does everyone want to take it out on the people in Fla.? If future residents need cash, and cannot buy here, then they cannot buy anywhere. Many industries will suffer across the board with this country’s mortgage meltdown. People in the banking industry, big ticket items, long distance movers and real estate alike would all suffer. Hoping for the worst will not help those who do not own now. All types of businesses would take a hard slam if this country gets into a depression. Those who truly own 100% of their property or close to it would be the only winners. I was told by a banking friend that many people are well into their 401K accounts and retirement money to survive month to month. Those who have cash, will come out ahead in life.

By Careers vs. Jobs

August 12, 2007 2:23 AM | Link to this

Answer “to cash problems above” who queried…… “It would seem that if a mortgage crisis is happening across the country, why does everyone want to take it out on the people in Fla.?” ——Answer the people in Fla do not earn enough money. Jobs here are usually hourly service positions or with low wage paying retailers. Higher paying careers (versus merely jobs)in such professions as science, medicine and law or senior level executive management positions enjoy the lower cost of living here in FLA. The problem is that decent jobs are hard to come by for most folks who are ill equipped to compete with those who are relocating from other States who value funding higher education more than outdoor sports activities. In other words, who would you rather hire..a graduate of FSU or UofM versus just about ANY other “competitive” University in the NorthEast, MidWest or UCLA, UCSF West etc. Sorry, folks but it has been a sad reality for decades. However it is changing for the better as FLA attracts more high-tech companies..and they forge partnerships with FSU to structure academic curriculms to train our brightest kids for a better future here. It won’t happen overnight, but it will happen and we will all be funding it via tax inducements to lure these clean industries here.

By Maxfeld

August 12, 2007 8:27 AM | Link to this

Any one else notice Ol Maxie, et -al are starting to sound like Rumsfeld or Wolfowitz of 4 yrs, 400 Billion dollars and thousands of dead ago ? They constantly berated critics, “knew” stable Iraq was only being delayed by “few deadenders”, etc,etc.

It is amazing, the ability of some people to preserve their egos by just denying reality.

By Mike Fink

August 12, 2007 8:38 AM | Link to this

To answer the question, yes, right now it is just FL condos that some lenders are refusing to fund. I expect that this trend may continue to other cities (Las Vegas comes to mind as number 2 most overbuilt condo market in the country) if the lenders feel that their actions in FL have been sucessful at mitigating thier risk. Here is the annoucement from one lender:

http://www.oomc.com/post/_marketing/phaseVII/phase7pg.html

Max, the dollar is as historic lows and you think the Fed should CUT interest rates? Can you please explain the logic on that one? The Fed raises interest rates to strengthen the dollar, not vice versa, IIRC.

Also, I would be interested to see why you feel the current rates are unsustainable in this environment? As I stated above, the rate, historically, is not even that high.

By Fink Get With It

August 12, 2007 9:50 AM | Link to this

Fink, the Fed is FAILING to buck up (no pun inteneded)the dollar with excessively high interest rates — excessive for THIS environment.

Gold is not at historic highs either, what does that have to do with anything?

The interest rates telle quelles are drying up liquidity and already disintermediation is causing even residential loans to dry up, which you guys observe at ground level. The billion-dollar infusion the other day is a desperate emergency measure which will amount to taking a one-a-day vitamin. How often do you think we can keep doing this?

I will be at 85 Wall Street this week or next. Those who are fiancially knowledgeable know what I am talking about. Till then I had better sign off and do my homework.

I can hardly go in there sounding as stupid and misinformed as Realshit.

By OOOPS

August 12, 2007 9:53 AM | Link to this

I mean 85 Broad.

HA HA HA

Yeah, I’m ready… :-)

By Realist

August 12, 2007 11:31 AM | Link to this

Maxi,

You are now completely delusional. IF and that is the biggest if in the history of the written word you are a relative of a former fed governor you must be the ultra black sheep of the family. You clearly have no understanding of basic economics. I am not going to waste any more time debating your incoherent and illogical comments. Good luck with your debt you earned it.

By HSBC

August 12, 2007 3:53 PM | Link to this

HSBC now owns 48 props in PBC.

From way they are being mkted looks like they are going to own for quite awhile.

EG :

2565 S Ocean 105N Highland Beach

Sold 05/05 $782,000

06/06 Cert of Title $515,100

Still bank owned, on mkt for 544K.

Too many very nice condos available in area for much less.

Even in same bldg -102N has been sitting on mkt, listed orig @ 506K, now 467K.

By Investments

August 12, 2007 11:09 PM | Link to this

I have no worries. My house is paid for. I am not in the stock market at the present time. Sold my stock when the prices were high and put into cds at the bank where it is safe now. Still have all my IRA’s and 401K’s and never touched any of it. Could care less if prices drop further in stock market or if prices of homes drop since I have no intention of moving and will stay where I am at.

Wall Street knew when the baby boomers were going to pull out of the market. I always said if you were a baby boomer, stop playing the stop market by 55 unless you can afford to lose it all and have enough time to make it up working again. Cash is King.

Florida is not the only area in the country where the price of properties has dropped. Can pick up some great deals in Texas or Northern California right now.

Florida is a loser state. Florida is as close to HELL as you can get. The most corrupt area in the whole country is right there down in Palm Beach County. The whole country knows that Palm Beach County and New Orleans are the worst places you could move to at this time.

So where are all you people moving to that are losing your home in a foreclosure? Are you moving up north to move in with some relative who has a basement?

Too many GREEDY people in south Florida. It’s entertaining to read about all your problems there. Sounds more like Florida is in a DEPRESSION and not a recession like the rest of the country. For all your GREED, you got WHAT YOU DESERVED.

By reHSBC

August 13, 2007 7:44 AM | Link to this

Better for FL if the lenders now holding hundreds of properties hold them. At least the high taxes sre getting paid.

If these places are not selling at prices lower than assessed for taxes, when they and others finally sell there will have to be re-assessments.

If re-assessments result in average $1,000 lower tax, for every thousand reassessments that is $1,000,000 less RE taxes collected.

Once the new bases are set, existing owners will appeal, more lost RE tax revs for stste.

Guess who is going to have to make up the millions lost by the state ?

By 2565SOcean

August 13, 2007 8:47 AM | Link to this

HSBC not only lender now owner in 2565

102N JP Morgan -

Last sale 04/05 835K COT 11/06 382K

On mkt 467K

Assessed 610K RE tax $11,457.

106N Amer.Home mtg.

Last sale 10/05 925K COT 03/07

on mkt 556K

Asses. 530K tax $9,963

105N last sale 05/2005 782K

Asses. 530K tax 9,963

on mkt 544K

108N Liquidation Prop Inc.

Last sale 04/2005 $1,100,000

COT 12/2006

Assess 860K tax $16,125

on mkt 735K.

These things are not moving even at these reduced prices from previous sales. Once these and others finally sell, won’t other owners want re-assed lower values ?

Domino effect of this should be interesting.

By "INVESTMENTS" FUNNIES

August 13, 2007 10:29 AM | Link to this

You have to admit “Investments”is the funniest thing going on this board. He’s as extreme a redneck goofball as NASCAR WILLY, but this motherf**ker is apparently serious.

He imagines Florida as a place where everyone is going broke, while instead we’re all living the life he wishes he had the balls to.

Yeah, Florida is Paradise, yeah I like the beautiful weather, the beautiful beaches, the beautiful almost naked girls, the easy sex, the booze — deal with it, Investments — you’ll never have it, ya f**kin freak.

By easyasabc - morning notes

August 13, 2007 10:39 AM | Link to this

Let me say this….if you are up past 3am writing to people like Mike Fink about real estate….I have to wonder what that person next to you in bed looks like !!!!!!!………can someone tell me what is the point of writing down a long list of addresses of listed prices and sold prices????????…….forget about losing $1 million in lost taxes for de-value of property……the county will lose $25 million this year on water revenue…..anyway, the county will not cut the property tax base here…..our politicians are like junkies….they have been getting so much revenue from the past on property taxes, and with less Federal grants coming in, they will have to keep our property taxes up…they need our money to build their fancy libraies, city halls, fire stations, updating their county convention center, giving themselves nice pay raises, ordering new furniture for their offices, etc., etc…it is a compulsive habit they are in…..they need to spend our money ……it is their only true fix in life…….Boca Raton cut over 140 people from their payrolls……….anyone see that story about Mayor Frankel cutting two city employees from the payroll?????….that one woman will have a nice lawsuit against the city when she returns from family leave…..what a dumb a*s mayor that West Palm Beach has…………..several shopping malls in the area are exchanging hands….one was the “Downtown Mall” in Palm Beach Gardens….sold to a California trust fund ……the other one up for sale is Legacy mall across the way…..and they need to pay Calafumo his construction bill lein first before it is sold………ok, what is this about no more mortgages for condos here ?????……does this mean all future condo sales need cash buyers??????…….that will make many of the “have nots” unhappy……looks like they blew their chance of not getting in on those low intrest loans…….I do have to agree with “Investments” this time about how Wall St. knew that the “Baby Boomers” had this cash built up in their portfolio, and when to take them………….RCA, get ready, stock up on your pudding & jell-o…..their is a storm on the horizon………..the one who might get rain on could be our Aloha boy , Fla Ren., in Hawaii…..very rare, like once every ten years for the Hula boys & girls to get rainned on…..Fla Ren., if he is in Hawaii now, tell us the news of how all the people are running to the stores to stock up on food and other supplies…….people on the Big Island have a better chance of getting their home destroyed by lava than a hurricane……Alan Greenspan got a job with Deutch Bank…..see what happens to these old people when they retired, they just p**s their money away and have to go back working………..was MadMax back from vacation?????….Max will be glad to hear that prices are holding, and there are less condos are on the market…….Palm Beach builder Engle said that the “media” are behind the stats of the local real estate market…..Did you HEAR that Jeff and Linda ??????? ………”careers/jobs” may not have been around when Palm Beach county was home to many large corparations that employed thousands and thousands of well paid jobs….IBM, Motorola, Pratt & Whitney were just a few……now we have Publix and the Boca Resort and Spa Club as the leading employers in this county…….our tech. age ended when Lawton Chiles and Jeb Bush was in office…..what took over was the “dining out” age…..you people out there are taking out equity from your homes to pay off those large dinner credit card bills……..remember when people told us how they sold their homes here in 2004 - 2005, and moved up to St. Lucie county to buy new homes for half the price??????….well, St Lucie leads the area in foreclosures………..stocks up this morning…..Feds put more money into the banks here to cover loans……not good in the long run…….German, Swiss, & Japan banks are calling in their loans on us……when foreclosures start to go up, it has a ripple affect on other countries……imports and exports will be affected…..Mike Fink, you wanted low prices…..you might get it if this county goes into the dumps…..but the cost might be your job and millions of others…..where will you be then on buying a home?????…..tell me what bank will give you a home loan without a job ??????…..people with their homes paid off will have it better than those who did not or are paying rent……..elections are only 14 months away…..Republicans had such a good thing going, and they got greedy like everyone else in life…..ok, all together now ….”Realist is an Idiot”…..RCA, Winn-Dixie has a sale on pudding and peanut butter…..enjoy!

easyasabc

By to "Investment" funnies

August 13, 2007 10:44 AM | Link to this

Agreed, “Investments”seems like awful bitter sort. Must have gotten lot of rejects, even at closing time.

However, do not make mistake of ignoring what is happening to a lot of properties. ( see the post about S Ocean bldg above.)

If this doesn’t stabilize soon, a lot more people are going to be hurt financialy.

You sound like you are covered, as am I. Anyone not needing or wanting to sell and with enough cash on hand or income will be fine.

The growing numbers of foreclosures, and the failure of vultures to even want them at lower prices, does not bode well for a lot of others.

By cw1900

August 13, 2007 11:02 AM | Link to this

Good morning,

Max and Realist fighting it out this weekend, always fun to read.

Let’s get right to it.

To “Careers vs. Jobs”, the general pompous tone of your post reiterates one of the main reasons I escaped the northeast for a much better lifestyle. You sound like you live here, but you still speak as if you are not of of us. You still keep that arm’s length. Make fun of Florida all you want, the fact is, people with your attitude from the northeast, sit on this blog wishing they were here, and because they are not, they take out their inherent envy of being one of us by attempting to put us down. It usually backfires. That’s what you sound like.

Subtle digs like, “In other words, who would you rather hire..a graduate of FSU or UofM versus just about ANY other “competitive” University in the NorthEast, MidWest or UCLA, UCSF West etc….” is your way of continuing a stereotype that many of us just laugh at. It makes you look like a fool. I went to one of those universities you speak of up north, and yes, I think I rec’d a fine education. However, my experiences with grads of UF, FSU, and UM only impress me, and makes me laugh at your foolish, no nothing, pompous statements.

To “Investments”, same question to you. If you despise this state so much, why do you and jacka$$es like “Careers vs. Jobs” hang around this blog blathering nonsense with such a lower class of people as I and the rest of us filthy Floridians? Why do you want to save us from ourselves? We clearly are a bunch of dolts who don’t know enough to come in out of the rain or can’t get a decent job in the holy grail of the north. You are such a genius. Please, “Investments”, help us all before it’s too late. Your keen wisdom and insight into the future is a valuable asset to our blog. Don’t leave until you show us the way.

I may have been raised in the northeast, but I am a Floridian. This is my home. This is where I choose to spend a quality life, and it is clearer every year that I made the right choice. I am a Floridian. I am proud of that fact. I feel no need to visit real estate blogs of northern newspapers. Why? Simple really. I’m not jealous and I have no interest in planting roots up there. Jealousy always sparks anger and you and “Careers vs Jobs”, in spite of appearance, are two very jealous and bitter people. Did it ever occur to you buffoons that we simply don’t care what you think of us living here?

What’s wrong? Couldn’t play golf as much as you wanted to up there this spring in 43 degrees and drizzle? I hope you enjoy your summer and rest up. It takes a lot of work to put on all of those snow boots and heavy coats for half the year trudging along to that great career of yours you toil in, or did….

Please excuse me. I must make a call to a northern client in Vienna, VA…..ooops, I should have said “Tysons Corner”. They prefer us to use that, it makes them sound so much more pretentious. That’s what their other office in Arizona says about them. They like name, you see, they are from, wow, Tysons Corner. I’m so very impressed, I think I’ll mark up the price a little higher. They can afford it, right, they’re from Tysons Corner, and besides, they trust my judgment and expertise much more than their local residents, so I guess I’m worth it, this lowly Floridian….

Good riddance to you and yours.

cw

By toeasya

August 13, 2007 11:36 AM | Link to this

re :

“can someone tell me what is the point of writing down a long list of addresses of listed prices and sold prices????????…….forget about losing $1 million in lost taxes for de-value of property…… “

From what I see those posts show LAST SELLING price (not just list)first and then the price the lenders will take to get rid of them. In some cases HUNDREDS of THOUSANDS less than 2005 idiots paid.

Also, they refer to growing number of lenders holding growing number of properties and trying to sell same below last selling price.

Since these are still not selling, even to vultures, they will probably drop more, or sit very long time before selling. (or both)

The re-assesments of tax values that will result from appeals of current owners still assessed at market values of 2005/2006 across Palm Beach County has potential to dwarf the 1 million you refer to.

Are you puposefully ignoring the implications for PBC govt need to come up with more revenues when all these owners present proof of thousands of sales below what current owners assessments based on ?

If your neighboring homes were selling way below what your assessment was, wouldn’t you be appealing your assessment if much higher ?

By to "cw1900"

August 13, 2007 11:40 AM | Link to this

I second that

By Jealous in Dayton

August 13, 2007 11:56 AM | Link to this

Hi Florida! I certainly am jealous. I read your blog and dream because it’s in our newspaper. Look at what our shining city has to offer. And you Floridians think you’ve got problems?

By Mike Fink

August 13, 2007 11:59 AM | Link to this

Oh, the flood of assesments is going to be staggering. Pretty much everyone who bought in the past 2 years should be screaming for a reassesment today; and in 2 more years, everyone who bought since 2000 will be screaming for a reassesment (or another reassesment).

The tax burden will fall, one way or another. :)

By fink is

August 13, 2007 12:15 PM | Link to this

delusional again speaking of 2000.

something good must have happened to him in that year. we keeps trying to go back to it.

By Ghost RIder

August 13, 2007 12:59 PM | Link to this

Mike Fink reminds me of a nervous nelly. Don’t worry about something you don’t own.

By EasyMax

August 13, 2007 3:15 PM | Link to this

Alter ego blog mates Easy and Max practice their possitive confessions together. Lets close our eyes and chant: “as we speak, prices are rising…as we speak, prices are rising…if we believe it, it will be true! Serenity now, serenity now!” breathe deep…in with the good, out with the bad…once again breathe deep…in with the good, out with the bad. ahhhh…more possitive confessions. “real estate is ALWAYS a good investment!” repeat it to believe it. “real estate is ALWAYS a good investment!” “real estate always goes up, never down” repeat it to believe it. “real estate always goes up, never down.” breathe deep again…

Now you developers join EasyMax in this possitive confession exercise. Close your eyes all you developers, and repeat after me…”if you build it, they will buy…if you build it, they will buy.”

By to CW

August 13, 2007 3:37 PM | Link to this

Gosh CW, I never expected to see you sticking up for Michigan on this blog, but there you are, sticking up for Michigan along side UF, and FSU. (you said that your experience with UF, FSU and UM grads always impresses you) I don’t know how you put Michigan in the same category as the Fla schools in your tirade against Fla bashers, but its nice to know you recognize a superior school when you see one. I am assuming that you were referring to Michigan when you say ‘UM’, cuz everyone knows that there is only one U of M, which is Michigan.

I believe that school in Miami is referred to as ‘Thug U’? I guess that would make it TU for short, right?

Of course that reminds me of something I always wanted to know… Who gets the bigger salaries? the football players at UF, FSU, or TU?

By college boy

August 13, 2007 9:58 PM | Link to this

Chicago does not make good pizza.

University of Fargo

Flint State University

University of Muskogee

TU? Topeka University?

Did you see those pics of Dayton? Can you imagine people live like that? I hear the average workin’ stiff in Chicago lives in some puny little dump, but good golly, he has pride in Illinois.

Da Bears!

By Brian

August 13, 2007 10:19 PM | Link to this

Right now South Florida is facing an unprecedented wave of foreclosures, mainly as a result of the sub prime loan disaster. Anyone facing foreclosure should be aware that there is one very important alternative to avoid the foreclosure and that is the Short Sale. A Short Sale is a proven way for a homeowner who owes more than the house is worth to avoid a foreclosure and the subsequent credit hit.

I would advise anyone facing foreclosure to discuss their situation with an experienced Realtor. Short Sales are not a part of real estate basic training but there are a number of educational seminars a Realtor can take to get up to speed. Lenders will pay a reasonable selling commission so Realtors have an incentive to get involved in Short Sale situations.

The basic requirements for a Short Sale are a Listing Agreement with a Realtor and a Sales Contract from a Buyer which are submitted to the Lender along with a Hardship Letter from the Seller explaining why they cannot continue to pay the mortgage and supporting documents such as tax returns, bank statements, information and photos of the home and the Comps, or comparative home prices supporting the offer. The way mortgages are sold, the lender can be anywhere in the country and certainly not aware of local real estate conditions.

If the package is complete, the Lender will order a BPO, or Broker’s Price Opinion, from an independent Realtor. Ths BPO is the key to the whole process. If it is too high, the Lender will not accept a low offer. Your Realtor can meet with the Agent doing the BPO and offer information supporting the offer, such as the average time on market of comparable homes, recent selling prices and point out any defects in the home. Most Lenders will accept an offer lower than the BPO, but usually not much more than 10% lower, though that will vary depending on the company.

The sales contract should specifically state that the offer is contingent on the Lender accepting the purchase price in full and forgiving the Seller the deficiency on the mortgage. There can be tax consequences but if the Seller is truly in a difficult financial situation they can be avoided - an accountant should certainly be involved in that question. This does all take time and Lenders are swamped, expect at least 2-3 months before a sale can be finalized, even if the Lender accepts the first offer. If they do not, the price can be negotiated.

I am a Realtor, a Broker Associate in South Florida and am involved in Short Sales. It is a detailed but fairly straightforward process that can work to benefit Buyer, Seller and even the Lender. The Buyer gets a good price on a home, the Seller gets to avoid the disruption and credit hit of a foreclosure and the Lender avoids the delay and expense of foreclosing on a property they don’t want to own and that would negatively impact their ability to make more loans. All this information is available on the web site www.ForeclosuresFloridaForeclosures.com

By to Brian

August 13, 2007 10:30 PM | Link to this

Brian,

You idiot! You just brazenly advertised on this blog.

You really blew it.

The other real estate boyz and sales sluts will be all over you tomorrow morning.

You idiot. You made your bed, now lie in it.

Never advertise on here again, you loser. Now go cry in the lap of your wife, and try to explain that you tried to get in on the new hot thing, but as any get rich quick scheme, it ends in miserable failure. She’ll run home to mother like she always does when you screw up once again.

RFLMAO!!!!!

By Brian is outed

August 13, 2007 10:47 PM | Link to this

Brian, Brian, Brian…

You blowhard, you really did screw up.

Apologize for trying to sell on this blog and do it quick.

By I could use Brian's help

August 13, 2007 11:02 PM | Link to this

That was a very informative post. I truly learned a great deal from your website.

Wrong!….

hahahahahahahahahahahaha hahahahahahahahahahaha hahahahahahahahahaha ahahahahahahahahahahaha ahahahahahahahahahaha ahahahahahahahahahah hahahahahahahahahahah

By ForeclosuresFloridaForeclosures.com

August 14, 2007 8:52 AM | Link to this

hi brian, can you comeo out and play? i really like your nifty website. it probably took you three minutes, you whiz web designer you!

By to desperate realtor

August 14, 2007 9:10 AM | Link to this

I just read your little infomercial and laughed. what a joke.

jeff, pull that post from our newest jerk, brian the foreclosure specialist.

he just wants to help the poor souls get right, lol.