AJC.com > Opinion > Woman to Woman > Archives > 2009 > February > 13 > Entry
Does the public have the right to know who financially supports voter initiatives?
Andrea Cornell Sarvady, a left-leaning columnist, writes the commentary this week and Shaunti Feldhahn, a right-leaning columnist, responds.
Commentary
Is there any way to know what you’re really dealing with on Election Day? Sure there is, as an up-and-coming football player famously said to his agent in “Jerry Maguire”: “Show me the money!”
Following the money trail is important in truly understanding a campaign, so I was gratified earlier this month when U.S. District Judge Morrison England upheld a 35-year old finance disclosure law that identifies all who contribute over $100 to a campaign.
This decision greatly displeased supporters of Proposition 8, the voter-approved measure that banned gay marriage in California. The attorneys for Prop 8 feared reprisals for supporters of this controversial measure, including retaliation towards donors to one of the major groups behind the anti gay-marriage initiative, ProtectMarriage.com.
ProtectMarriage.com folks fear harassment? That’s rich. They’re the same group that sent a certified letter to large donors of Equality California, noting their donations for the fight against Prop 8 and tersely suggesting that they “make a donation of a like amount to ProtectMarriage.com which will help us correct this error.” Refusing to donate, the letter continued, “would be a clear indication that you are in opposition to traditional marriage… . The names of any companies and organizations that choose not to donate…will be published.”
Threats of this sort have been regular fare for the anti-gay crowd: companies as disparate as Disney, Pepsi and Wal-Mart have faced very public boycotts for showing any tolerance toward gay groups. How then can conservative groups complain when their followers get similar treatment?
Of course physical threats are another matter entirely; fortunately, despite the hyperbole, there have been very few of those perpetrated against Prop 8 supporters. The plaintiffs in this recent case cite nine incidents of outright harassment, only one of those involving someone whose identity was revealed through campaign disclosure information.
No, most “retaliation” towards supporters of Prop 8 has simply come in the form of irate citizens who have taken their business elsewhere. The last time I checked, voting with your pocketbook played an intrinsic role in a free and just society.
So let’s celebrate transparency in government — at least until some Privacy in Campaign Funding measure crawls onto the next ballot. And when it does? I, for one, want to know who paid for it.
Rebuttal
Andy has gone to the dark side of a dangerous liberal trend: freedom-of-speech protections for everyone except conservative religious believers. The point behind campaign disclosure was to check large donors’ influence on lawmakers’ votes. But democracy is at stake when small donors can no longer contribute without having private information posted on the Internet for the purpose of a coordinated hate campaign.
Andy clearly hasn’t grasped the threat level against Prop 8 supporters. Violent protests against Mormon and Catholic churches have been common. The L.A. local news covering 2,500 protesters caught on camera two Hispanic women being beaten simply for trying to remove hateful graffiti desecrating a church. Small $100 donors have received death threats, their homes have been vandalized, and their employers - who had nothing to do with their donation - threatened and harassed. It got so bad that liberal L.A. Times columnist Steve Levin — a gay marriage supporter — finally wrote a December column pleading for civility. As he reported a few days later, “I’ve never been called a bigot so many times.”
One statement from San Francisco Supervisor Bevan Dufty — reported by Knight-Ridder — sums up why unprotected religious donors will be afraid from now on: “The time has come to take it out there to the people who voted for this awful thing…. The Mormon church has had to rely on our tolerance in the past, to be able to express their beliefs…This is a huge mistake for them. It looks like they’ve forgotten some lessons.”
Jim Bopp, lead attorney on the unsuccessful attempt to protect small donors’ identity, explained via phone that the Supreme Court has upheld such efforts — such as for the NAACP — when there was a “reasonable probability” that donors would be subject to “threats, harassment or reprisals.” If black civil rights donors were being threatened this way, Andy would be the first to want to protect them.
It’s terribly ironic that gay rights advances rest on the very freedoms being threatened by California’s angry agents of intolerance. As Bopp put it, “People can’t be fearful for taking part in our democracy. But they are being punished for taking part. If we allow this, then we are like a Third World country.”
.JPG)
-1.JPG)
Services »
Comments
By USinUK
February 13, 2009 11:41 AM | Link to this
While I don’t think every person who donates $100 to an issue campaign should be disclosed, I do believe that every organization that campaigns or places ads should be disclosed, including who their board is and how long they have been in existence. If less than 2 or 3 years, I think there should be greater scrutiny into exactly what the organization is and who backs them.
We have entirely too much “astroturf” in politics - campaigns that are seemingly grassroots but are actually corporate interest skirting required disclosure.
By American Woman
February 13, 2009 11:44 AM | Link to this
If you donate more than $100 to the cause of eradicating the rights of others to enjoy the same privileges from the government that YOU enjoy, and you are afraid to announce it publicly, then you are a cowardly little twit. But that’s just my opinion. (If I, for some reason, decide to be a cowardly little twit, I’ll donate $99 instead, and slink away silently in my secret shame.)
EQUALITY!! (It’s inevitable. Get over your sicko bigoted phobias.)
By lovelyliz
February 13, 2009 11:47 AM | Link to this
A donor’s right to privacy ends when they & their $$$$ enter the public arena, affecting public policy and the lives of the public.
By Gale
February 13, 2009 11:50 AM | Link to this
I think voters need to understand that groups with very vested interest in the outcome of an election are distributing propaganda. They should consider the source when voting based on a political ad. Like most people, I abhor violent reprisals. Like Andrea, I think it’s rich when groups who distribute the propaganda feel put upon when the folks they set out to harm turn against them.
By FlexSF
February 13, 2009 12:02 PM | Link to this
eightmaps.com is a water cooler issue for me. I live in San Francisco, and know a co-worker who is on eightmaps. I wasn’t surprised to find his name on it. I’ve always accepted him, as is, and don’t think any differently of him now. However, I do point out to my co-workers that his name is on eightmaps. It speaks volumes to see somebody’s name on that list. If anyone is upset over seeing their names on the list, it is a reflection of their own shame that they don’t like. It’s like looking into a mirror! Anyone who is on, and against eightmaps is a hypocritical coward. It’s like supporting religious members who wear cardboard, cone shaped hats clothed in white!
By Gandalf, the White!
February 13, 2009 12:11 PM | Link to this
So AW you donate $100 to something you disagree with, then you deserve to be beaten? Step back and see what you are saying for once! Harm is a subjective term her Gale. What is it was the abortion doctors getting killed? Would that change your perspective? $100 is nothing in this day and age.
Let’s see: “We are All Socialists” Next is the end of secret union ballots then Nationalized Health Care, followed closely by rationed Heatlh Care….
By Mara
February 13, 2009 12:17 PM | Link to this
lovelyliz - A donor’s right to privacy ends when they & their $$$$ enter the public arena, affecting public policy and the lives of the public.
Hi liz. Well said. and you look lovely today - :^)
Shaunti - …small donors can no longer contribute without having private information posted on the Internet for the purpose of a coordinated hate campaign
ahhhhhh. So the whole point of compaign finance laws is ‘hate’ and ‘hate campaigns’ against the poor christian voter? Of course it couldn’t possibly be to ensure that voter initiatives are actually being supported by the voters and not just a small cabal of the very rich. Oh, no. It just has to for a hate campaign.
And since when did boycotts and letter-of-protest become ‘retaliation’? Silly me. I thought it was freedom.
By Mara
February 13, 2009 12:19 PM | Link to this
Curses! I took so much time compiling my list of who everybody reminded me of that it’s stuck on last weeks comments. Drat.
By USinUK
February 13, 2009 12:22 PM | Link to this
Mara -
“Curses! I took so much time compiling my list of who everybody reminded me of that it’s stuck on last weeks comments. Drat.”
copy and paste! copy and paste!!
btw … am I the only person here who misses Sunshine??? come baaaaaack Sunshine!!
By Gandalf, the White!
February 13, 2009 12:26 PM | Link to this
DRATS MARA HERE’S A LINE FOR YOU! “I’ll get you my pretty and your little dog too!”
By Gandalf, the White!
February 13, 2009 12:28 PM | Link to this
WHY IS PROTECTION OF TRADITIONAL MARRIAGE ANTI-HOMOSEXUAL? THAT IS JUST DUMB!
By Mara
February 13, 2009 12:30 PM | Link to this
USinUK - copy and paste! copy and paste!!
LOL! just for you…
okay, this is slow going because I have to think of the character then google the show to find out the actor/actress name…
Bruno - Jeff Goldblum (Lost World).
lozen - Sherilyn Fenn (Sasha from Gilmore Girls)
USinUK - Allison Janney (West Wing)
Gale - Lauren Holly (NCIS)
Sunshine - (I’m sorry, all I can picture right now is a pregnant Salma Hayek)
American Woman - Ally Sheedy (Breakfast Club)
wheew! This’s tough! Hope I didn’t forget anyone…
oh, and chuck makes me think of Pat Skipper (Charmed: Morality Bites)
By Gandalf, the White!
February 13, 2009 12:35 PM | Link to this
EXPAT: give her some time, she just had a FESTUSectomy, she should be fine! Here is a song for SUNSHINE and her baby daddy:
I got a dollar in my pocket there ain’t a cloud up above I got a picture in a locket that says baby I love you Well if you didn’t look then boys then fellas don’t go lookin’ now Well here she comes a-walkin’ all that heaven will allow
Say hey there mister bouncer now all I wanna do is dance But I swear I left my wallet back home in my workin’ pants C’mon Slim slip me in man I’ll make it up to you somehow I can’t be late I got a date with all that heaven will allow
Rain and storm and dark skies well now they don’t mean a thing If you got a girl that loves you and who wants to wear your ring So c’mon mister trouble we’ll make it through you somehow We’ll fill this house with all the love all that heaven will allow
Now some may wanna die young man young and gloriously Get it straight now mister hey buddy that ain’t me ‘Cause I got something on my mind that sets me straight and walkin’ proud And I want all the time all that heaven will allow
By Gandalf, the White!
February 13, 2009 12:39 PM | Link to this
Bruno: I actually liked the 10th AVE FREEZEOUT choice..it’s the e-street band athemn. Thouht Thunder Road would have been a great choice as well….
Tear drops on the city Bad Scooter searching for his groove Seem like the whole world walking pretty And you can’t find the room to move Well everybody better move over, that’s all I’m running on the bad side And I got my back to the wall Tenth Avenue freeze-out, Tenth Avenue freeze-out
I’m stranded in the jungle Taking all the heat they was giving The night is dark but the sidewalk’s bright And lined with the light of the living From a tenement window a transistor blasts Turn around the corner things got real quiet real fast She hit me with a Tenth Avenue freeze-out Tenth Avenue freeze-out And I’m all alone, I’m all alone And kid you better get the picture And I’m on my own, I’m on my own And I can’t go home
When the change was made uptown And the Big Man joined the band From the coastline to the city All the little pretties raise their hands I’m gonna sit back right easy and laugh When Scooter and the Big Man bust this city in half With a Tenth Avenue freeze-out, Tenth Avenue freeze-out Tenth Avenue freeze-out…
By Gandalf, the White!
February 13, 2009 12:41 PM | Link to this
I need to introduce you to my themesong!
I came here looking for something I couldn’t find anywhere else Hey, I’m not trying to be nobody Just want a chance to be myself
I’ve done a thousand miles of thumbin’ I’ve worn blisters on my heels Trying to find me something better On the streets of Bakersfield
Chorus: You don’t know me but you don’t like me You say you care less how I feel But how many of you that sit and judge me Have ever walked the streets of Bakersfield?
Spent some time in San Francisco Spent a night there in the can They threw this drunk man in my jail cell Took fifteen dollars from that man Left him my watch and my old house key Don’t want folks thinkin’ that I’d steal Then I thanked him as I was leaving, and I headed for the streets of Bakersfield
Chorus: You don’t know me but you don’t like me You say you care less how I feel But how many of you that sit and judge me Have ever walked the streets of Bakersfield?
You don’t know me but you don’t like me You say you care less how I feel But how many of you that sit and judge me Have ever walked the streets of Bakersfield?
How many of you that sit and judge me Have ever walked the streets of Bakersfield?
By Gandalf, the White!
February 13, 2009 12:41 PM | Link to this
I need to introduce you to my themesong!
I came here looking for something I couldn’t find anywhere else Hey, I’m not trying to be nobody Just want a chance to be myself
I’ve done a thousand miles of thumbin’ I’ve worn blisters on my heels Trying to find me something better On the streets of Bakersfield
Chorus: You don’t know me but you don’t like me You say you care less how I feel But how many of you that sit and judge me Have ever walked the streets of Bakersfield?
Spent some time in San Francisco Spent a night there in the can They threw this drunk man in my jail cell Took fifteen dollars from that man Left him my watch and my old house key Don’t want folks thinkin’ that I’d steal Then I thanked him as I was leaving, and I headed for the streets of Bakersfield
Chorus: You don’t know me but you don’t like me You say you care less how I feel But how many of you that sit and judge me Have ever walked the streets of Bakersfield?
You don’t know me but you don’t like me You say you care less how I feel But how many of you that sit and judge me Have ever walked the streets of Bakersfield?
How many of you that sit and judge me Have ever walked the streets of Bakersfield?
By USinUK
February 13, 2009 12:41 PM | Link to this
Mara -
Allison Janney?? You just made my day!!! (although I’m nowhere near as tall) woowoo!!
as a waaaaaaayyyyyyyyy off the topic aside … did anyone watch Joaquin Phoenix on Letterman last night?? was the whole thing as dreadful as the snippets??
By USinUK
February 13, 2009 12:48 PM | Link to this
GtG -
FestusEctomy -
dangitall, GtG, now I’m picturing the little surfer dude turning on lightbulbs with his mouth.
what song is that and who by?? I don’t recognize it … ???
By Gandalf, the White!
February 13, 2009 1:11 PM | Link to this
all that heaven will allow, the Boss Tunnel of Love ‘87
By The Anti-Wooten
February 13, 2009 1:15 PM | Link to this
As is the norm with Shaunti’s thoughts(or what passes for thought) she’s either lying, using lies propogated from others(Jim Bopp) or possibly just ignorant.
The SCOTUS rulings on keeping names of donors to organizations have been particularly and by design narrow in focus. The NAACP is not among those but a state Socialist Party organization that had been repeatedly harrassed by government thugs, as one instance. The rulings were never intended to shield large, well funded campaign organizations from financial disclosure.
If the threats were of the severity and credibility that Shaunti purports we’d have already heard of arrests in 48 point font on some right wing rag. This is much ado about nothing other than embarrassment that your name(hyperbolically speaking)is published and the Crazy Christians are ashamed of their actions.
By American Woman
February 13, 2009 1:17 PM | Link to this
Dear Gandalf, so sorry you misunderstood me. Here’s what I meant: If you hate somebody enough to donate $100 or more to stripping them of the rights YOU enjoy as an American, then IMO, you hate them enough to hate them publicly. If you hate them, but not enough to admit it publily, save yourself a buck and donate $99 to hating them in the name of whatever it is you anonymously hate people in the name of. Hope that helps. (My apologies for the poor grammatical structure. Time to raise the blood sugar with a satisfying, low-calorie frozen entree.)
By Frustrated
February 13, 2009 1:27 PM | Link to this
Mara, Bruno - Jeff Goldblum (Lost World).
lozen - Sherilyn Fenn (Sasha from Gilmore Girls)
USinUK - Allison Janney (West Wing)
Gale - Lauren Holly (NCIS)
Sunshine - (I’m sorry, all I can picture right now is a pregnant Salma Hayek)
American Woman - Ally Sheedy (Breakfast Club)
You are such fun….I got quite the giggles from your post. What about me?? Who do you see me as?????
By Mara
February 13, 2009 1:28 PM | Link to this
How many of you that sit and judge me Have ever walked the streets of Bakersfield?
I have. Lived in Tehachapi for a while. Hung out in Bakersfield quite a bit.
By Flex
February 13, 2009 1:32 PM | Link to this
If prop 8 supporters are banned from marriage in California, in a possible future campaign, wouldn’t they like to see who was supporting that campaign?
By Gale
February 13, 2009 1:35 PM | Link to this
American Woman, I agree, sorta. If you believe in something to the point of funding that, why hide? It doesn’t have to be hate related. It just happens this issues is very emotional for some people on both sides, as is the other big right-wing-let’s-divert-attention-from-real-problems issue. Americans should be strong enough to stand up for what they believe, not hide in an anonomous list. What? Other people disagree and they tell you so? They think nothing of the people who publically harangue the groups they don’t like. The Prop8 backers are just not used to negative feedback about their opinions.
By Gale
February 13, 2009 1:41 PM | Link to this
If prop 8 supporters are banned from marriage in California
Um Prop8 was to keep gays from marrying. Seems like a good idea to me. If you support restricting someone else’s rights, you should also lose that right. :-)
By AW's Fave Springsteen Song
February 13, 2009 1:41 PM | Link to this
Seen a man standin’ over a dead dog lyin’ by the highway in a ditch He’s lookin’ down kinda puzzled pokin’ that dog with a stick Got his car door flung open he’s standin’ out on highway 31 Like if he stood there long enough that dog’d get up and run Struck me kinda funny seem kinda funny sir to me Still at the end of every hard day people find some reason to believe
Now Mary Lou loved Johnny with a love mean and true She said baby I’ll work for you everyday and bring my money home to you One day he up and left her and ever since that She waits down at the end of that dirt road for young Johnny to come back Struck me kinda funny funny yea indeed how at the end of every hard earned day you can find some reason to believe
Take a baby to the river Kyle William they called him Wash the baby in the water take away little Kyle’s sin In a whitewash shotgun shack an old man passes away take the body to the graveyard and over him they pray Lord won’t you tell us, Tell us what does it mean At the end of every hard earned day people find some reason to believe
Congregation gathers down by the riverside Preacher stands with his bible, groom stands waitin’ for his bride Congregation gone and the sun sets behind a weepin’ willow tree Groom stands alone and watches the river rush on so effortlessly Wonderin’ where can his baby be still at the end of every hard earned day people find some reason to believe
By Mara
February 13, 2009 1:55 PM | Link to this
Frustrated - What about me?? Who do you see me as?????
I’m sooooo sorry! I didn’t mean to leave you out, just scatter-brained today :^(
now, I haven’t been able to get a fix on your gender. Somedays I get a ‘guy’ vibe from your comments and sometimes not. (PLEASE don’t aske me to define the difference between ‘guy vibe’ and ‘girl vibe’. It’s ephemeral.) So anyway…
when I picture you as a guy, I see Peter Finch as Howard Beale (“I’M AS MAD AS H-LL, AND I’M NOT GOING TO TAKE THIS ANYMORE!”)
When I picture you as a woman, I flash on Nancy Grace (yes, THAT Nancy Grace). Don’t know why. No offense meant.
Hugs to all. I’ve got a meeting in five so catch y’all tomorrow.
By Gale
February 13, 2009 1:57 PM | Link to this
Speaking of Sunshine, Did you know a lot of babies are born on full moons? If Sunshine had waited, the full moon was on Monday, the 9th. I think most c-sections are for the convenience of the doctors. My personal opinion.
By Gale
February 13, 2009 2:05 PM | Link to this
Bruno - Jeff Goldblum (Lost World).
This is one I can agree with. It might be because we share so many opinions, Bruno. It isn’t so much how he looks as the characterization. Maybe if I had seen any of the aforementioned people, I could agree with the others as well. I never heard of most of those people.
By Gandalf, the White!
February 13, 2009 2:50 PM | Link to this
BRUNO me and Barry just “need some tasty waves, a cool buzz, and we’re fine”
By Gandalf, the White!
February 13, 2009 2:54 PM | Link to this
AW, it as if he stood there long enough, that dog get up and run… awesome!
By Gandalf, the White!
February 13, 2009 2:57 PM | Link to this
When Barry and I would get wasted up on North Shore: Barry slapping head with a flip flop “Gandy, That was my skull! I’m so wasted!” I used to tease him about being president, he would laugh, then he married an ugly woman and I haven’t toked with him since. I told him she was a puppy, but he was hooked and got mad at me. Moral of the story, don’t let your friends marry ugly.
By Gandalf, the White!
February 13, 2009 3:00 PM | Link to this
Barry and I, after some tasty waves and while enjoyin’ some cool buds from the island, once discussed the whole homosexual revolution going on in San Fran in the late 70s early 80’s, all he had to say was “Those guys are f*”.
By Gandalf, the White!
February 13, 2009 3:03 PM | Link to this
Gale: How is keeping marriage a union between a man and a woman restricting any one from marriage? I am confused? If I am against calling Sunday Sunerstandagner, should I not be able to call Sunday Sunday? your logic is flawed. If, then kinda thing…
By Gandalf, the White!
February 13, 2009 3:07 PM | Link to this
I am against abortion as a form of birth control, so am I, as the blog often refers to me a moron? Nope, just think that sex is not a toy for your friends to open. Good girls have abortions cuz society teaches them to have sex with any and every one. Tada! It’s your fault parents! All of you who voted for Barry! We are all socialists now.
By Gandalf, the White!
February 13, 2009 3:10 PM | Link to this
Remember if you don’t have a God with absolute values, you have no morals other than the ones you decide are right for you. Being a flawed animal, any moral code you decide upon is self serving, and set on a slippery slope. Aethist are AMORAL, end of discussion, the science is in. (paraphrasing the Liberal god aLGore).
By Gale
February 13, 2009 3:16 PM | Link to this
Gandalf, enough weed for now. You are getting weirder than usual.
By Gandalf, the White!
February 13, 2009 3:33 PM | Link to this
Gale, I told you I haven’t smoked since I left Schofield Barracks, BARRACKS sounds like Barack? I knew him as Barry, the kid who always want to toke up on North Shore. He like motorcycles back then and we used to burn and ride up and down 13 Corners, gets some Hawaii Ice in Halewa and ride some more.
By Gandalf, the White!
February 13, 2009 3:35 PM | Link to this
As you can imagine Gale, he’s a big disappointment to me now…. I am about Free Speech, he’s about Fair Speech, the two can’t coexist…
By Gale
February 13, 2009 3:59 PM | Link to this
Cheers for the weekend.
By Bruno
February 13, 2009 5:07 PM | Link to this
You are such fun….I got quite the giggles from your post. What about me?? Who do you see me as?????
Faithful—I’m picturing you as Kate Beckinsale. Can you live with that??
American Woman - Ally Sheedy (Breakfast Club)
You know, Mara, you may have nailed that one, at least from a personality standpoint. You’ll have to give her Molly Ringwald’s red hair, however.
Bruno - Jeff Goldblum (Lost World).
I haven’t seen Lost World, so can’t comment. At least you didn’t pick me as Jeff Goldblum in “The Fly”.
By Sunshine
February 13, 2009 5:13 PM | Link to this
Hello Everyone!
Thanks for all the kind thoughts! Yes it has been a VERY busy week, but we are getting settled in! I got a good giggle out of the “who do you picture as who” posts! With a great deal of humility and just as a reference, I would say pregnant Salma Hayek would be a close guess! Hopefully as the little guy gets on a more regular feeding schedule and I get better at nursing I will have more time to post! Have a good weekend!
By USinUK
February 15, 2009 11:59 AM | Link to this
TOJ -
I have been meaning to tell you all week … another ad for you to YouTube … look up Cadbury + kids + eyebrows - while its not the classic that the T-Mobile one was, it’s freaky in its own right.
hope everyone had a great weekend - Sunshine, SO glad to hear you guys are all home and settling in -
hugs to all …
By RF
February 15, 2009 12:06 PM | Link to this
As I recall, there was much flap over publishing lists of Obama donors during the campaign (from both Hillary and McCain camps). My take is, if you’re willing to donate, why hide under a bushel? I should think most donors would be proud and talk about their support anyway. I always have and always will. If you’re embarrassed or worried about reprisal, don’t get involved. Simple.
By RF
February 15, 2009 12:11 PM | Link to this
Congrats on the new baby Sunshine!! It’s an experience that adds so much richness and depth to life. No amount of money or material things can even come close the pure joy of parenting. I wrote in my journal the first night with my two (they were 3 and almost 5 when I got them) that there isn’t a symphony written that can come close to the sweet, simple music of listening to your kids sleeping. Mine are 11 and 13 and I’m still addicted to them!! Never miss a minute you don’t have to and never feel guilty for turning down work or social “obligations” for the sake of time with your little one. It goes by so, so fast!!
By Eaton
February 15, 2009 2:01 PM | Link to this
As distressing as the incident of the woman being attacked is, it’s hardly an excuse for making the origins of political donations more opaque. Physical attacks based on political contributions are extremely rare occurrences, no matter how much they might be sensationalized by the press.
I find this quote by Shaunti somewhat ironic, and staggeringly disingenuous: “But democracy is at stake when small donors can no longer contribute without having private information posted on the Internet for the purpose of a coordinated hate campaign.”
Given that organizations that Shaunti wholeheartedly supports, such as the Christian Coalition and Focus on the Family routinely use the internet for the purposes of coordinated anti-gay “hate campaigns”, I find it very difficult to feel sorry when their own tactic is turned against them. In fact, it was reported that ProtectMarriage.com, the group responsible for organizing Proposition 8 supporters, used these same donation rolls to send letters to everyone who had donated to the opposition, threatening - “politely” of course - to publicize their donations unless they made matching donations to ProtectMarriage.com.
Now they want their own doners removed from the public record?
Freedom of Speech has costs. If the Mormon Church used the draconian tactics to raise money for an anti-gay measure (and it did - that is also a matter of public record) then they deserve to suffer the consequences. I find it really hard to feel sympathetic for any group that advocates discrimination and hatred, and then expects not to be held accountable.
By swolf4810
February 15, 2009 2:45 PM | Link to this
Abolutely voters have a right to know who finances Proposistions to take away other people’s rights!
By Heaven is Ten Zillion Light Years Away
February 15, 2009 3:38 PM | Link to this
They say that heaven is 10 zillion light years away And just the pure at heart will walk her righteous streets someday They say that heaven is 10 zillion light years away But if there is a god, we need him now Where is your god? That’s what my friends ask me And I say its taken him so long cause we’ve got so far to come…
By Frustrated
February 16, 2009 9:27 AM | Link to this
Mara—-
I guess you missed all the mommy talk a few weeks back, but no fear!!! Nancy Grace?!?!?!?! AhahahahahahA! —Ouch
Bruno—-
Kate Beckinsale!!! I bet you say that to all the ladies!!! You just made my day!
By Frustrated
February 16, 2009 9:54 AM | Link to this
My turn!!!
Bruno - Johnny Depp
USinUK - Charlize Theron
Gale - The only one that comes to mind is Ellen!!!!
Sunshine - Lisa Kudrow
American Woman - Kathleen Turner
TOJ- Alan Arkin
Gandalf- William Dafoe
By USinUK
February 16, 2009 10:20 AM | Link to this
Frustrated -
charlize theron???? just to clarify, you’re talking about her role in the Italian Job remake, right?? and not her role in Monster …
one would qualify as a “dang! you made my day!!!” … the other would just be “dang”
By Mara
February 16, 2009 10:50 AM | Link to this
Frustrated - I guess I did miss the kiddie posts. Well, I probably didn’t miss them so much as not read them. To be frank, talking about children/pregnancy/parenthood bores me and my eyes tend to glaze over.
Sorry. I’ll remember you’re one of the girls from now on, I promise. :^)
By Frustrated
February 16, 2009 10:55 AM | Link to this
Us-
Yes, Italian Job….not Monster:)
By Gale
February 16, 2009 10:59 AM | Link to this
I guess I need to make a point of watching Ellen’s talk show so I can see why people are associating me with her. My exposure to Ellen is as Dory and the narrator for the Energy Experience at Epcot.
I reread the topic points this morning to see if there is any more I can say about it. It appears the regulars mostly agree. The irregulars mostly agree and the lurkers are keeping their cards to their vests.
I know political campaigns are different from charities. I often donate to charity anonomously because I don’t want to be stalked for repeat contributions, not to stay hidden. That said, I wonder about the Clinton Foundation doners. Did they want to be private or was the privacy issue there a matter of foundation policy? On the one hand, I am happy to tell people I support Heifer, but I would not be happy to learn that they sold my info to another party. In that sense I can understand the Clinton Foundation no wanting to divulge the doner list. Any thoughts?
By Gandalf, the White!
February 16, 2009 10:59 AM | Link to this
EXPAT: Charlize is just HOT with all caps. Dang you made my day is in order.
By The Other jack
February 16, 2009 11:10 AM | Link to this
Frustrated
I had to look up Alan Arkin, but that is really close. He is (or at least looks) a bit older than I am but when I clean up and go out, that’s pretty much me.
USinUK
My eye brows hurt. My daughter has always done stuff like that with her eye brows. I really miss her being around. Why do they have to grow up?
What a weekend. I really think I am on to something. I drank very little on the lake and it’s a good thing because, while the deal was sealed before I flew down there, i found out that the money guy was sharp as hell and a drunk Jack is not. I was able to stay with him in the discussions, but only by being straight and alert.
As far as the subject da’ week, I don’t see any reason why anyone who donates money to a cause should need to be exposed to the crazies that are against that cause. And I believe the reason why this is important is obvious to anyone who reads many of the posts on this blog from Friday.
Issues are not black and white or right or wrong. But many posters seem to think that they are. If you do not support what I support, then you must be a bigot, you must be wrong. As I have been told many times on here, that’s just not the way it works.
“If you donate more than $100 to the cause of eradicating the rights of others to enjoy the same privileges from the government that YOU enjoy, and you are afraid to announce it publicly, then you are a cowardly little twit.”
” I think it’s rich when groups who distribute the propaganda feel put upon when the folks they set out to harm turn against them.”
“Anyone who is on, and against eightmaps is a hypocritical coward. It’s like supporting religious members who wear cardboard, cone shaped hats clothed in white!”
“So the whole point of compaign finance laws is ‘hate’ and ‘hate campaigns’ against the poor christian voter? Of course it couldn’t possibly be to ensure that voter initiatives are actually being supported by the voters and not just a small cabal of the very rich. Oh, no. It just has to for a hate campaign.”
This is not the language of acceptance. This is not the language of compromise. This IS the language of “If you don’t agree with me, you deserve to be punished and if you say the wrong thing or support a different cause than I support, you deserve whatever the crazies from my persuasion decide to do to you.”
Washington is quickly becoming Liberals gone crazy. When Chuck Schumer feels comfortable enough to stand in front of Congress and proudly say “We do not want this money going to white construction workers”, many people just might find that disturbing and offensive. I would be willing to bet that there are a lot of unemployed White construction workers who would love to have the names of the people who supported putting Mr. Schumer in office.
See, it doesn’t seem like such a sweet plan when the roles are reversed.
By USinUK
February 16, 2009 11:12 AM | Link to this
okay … has anyone else been following the story here about the 12-year old boy who may/may not have fathered a baby?
http:// women.timesonline.co.uk/ tol/lifeandstyle/women/ families/article5734056.ece
it’s one of those stories that, the more details that come out, the more agog you are …
now, it seems that the 15-year-old mother slept with at least 2 other boys - all with her parents’ consent - both of which say they’re the father of the kid.
if you thought the mother of 14 was sad, this truly is tragic on any number of levels.
By USinUK
February 16, 2009 11:29 AM | Link to this
TOJ -
“My eye brows hurt. My daughter has always done stuff like that with her eye brows. I really miss her being around. Why do they have to grow up?”
because you would get REALLY tired of diaper duty and 2:00 feedings after 20-some-odd years … but did you like the ad?
well done on the TX deal! too bad it had to be Dallas … see if you can get them to host you in Austin next time!
lastly, it was Robert Reich, not Chuck Schumer, who said, “I am concerned, as I’m sure many of you are, that these jobs not simply go to high skilled people who are already professions or to white male construction workers. I have nothing against white male construction workers. I’m just saying that there are a lot of other people who have needs as well. And therefore, in my remarks I have suggested to you, and I’m certainly happy to talk about it more, ways in which the money can be — criteria can be set so that they money does go to others: the long term unemployed, minorities, women, people who are not necessarily construction workers or high-skilled professionals.”
By The Other jack
February 16, 2009 11:29 AM | Link to this
USinUK
You know what really bothers me? Every network has had expert after expert talking about the little girl that disappeared in Florida. Why is it that every one of them plus all of the anchors on all of the networks (including FOX) have absolutely refused to refer to these people’s dwelling as a home? Every stinking one of them have referred to their dwelling as a trailer or a double wide and I have never heard it called a home.
The caste system in America is becoming as pronounced as any caste system, almost anywhere in the world. The father and his girlfriend have both passed polygraphs and they do not need to be talked down like that. I could not imagine what it would have been like if my little girl had shown up missing.
By Bruno
February 16, 2009 11:34 AM | Link to this
Kate Beckinsale!!! I bet you say that to all the ladies!!! You just made my day!
Only for you, Faithful. I do think that Kate is likely the most beautiful actress in the world right now, and a cool person to boot. Charlize Theron just doesn’t do it for me, possibly because I’ve heard her whining about various political issues ala Madonna, which turns me off. Certainly entertainers are entitled to their own personal opinions, but I believe that they are being extremely narcissistic to believe that anyone cares what they think when they vent their views in a public forum.
Bruno - Johnny Depp
I appreciate the thought, but I’m not as suave and creative as JD. On a good day, ladies think that I’m “cute”, and I can be charming when I put my mind to it.
To be frank, talking about children/pregnancy/parenthood bores me and my eyes tend to glaze over.
Now, now, Mara, you’ll just have to pretend that all the baby talk is fascinating, though I know where you’re coming from. On trick I’ve learned over the years when confronted with a hairless little infant is to ask “What is your baby’s name?” rather than asking “What is his/her name?” Some parents don’t take it well if you guess the sex wrong.
By USinUK
February 16, 2009 11:45 AM | Link to this
TOJ -
“Every network has had expert after expert talking about the little girl that disappeared in Florida. Why is it that every one of them plus all of the anchors on all of the networks (including FOX) have absolutely refused to refer to these people’s dwelling as a home? Every stinking one of them have referred to their dwelling as a trailer or a double wide and I have never heard it called a home.”
I haven’t heard about the little FL girl … but I agree with you - there’s rich white justice, then there’s the justice for anyone else who isn’t quite as light or wealthy. The Madeline McCann case is a perfect example - eventually there were eyebrows raised about them leaving the kids alone while they ate dinner 50 yards away, but could you imagine what the coverage would have been if they weren’t rich white parents? Or if it was a single mom? good grief, they would have gathered the kindling to burn her at the stake around Day 2.
By Bruno
February 16, 2009 12:01 PM | Link to this
I reread the topic points this morning to see if there is any more I can say about it. It appears the regulars mostly agree. The irregulars mostly agree and the lurkers are keeping their cards to their vests.
Sorry that I don’t have much to add on topic this week, Gale, but I have mixed feelings on this issue. On one hand, I think that large political contributions need to be disclosed, especially those coming from out of the country. On the other hand, if such disclosures lead to people being fired from their jobs or being otherwise harassed, I don’t think that that would be right. We have secret balloting in this country for a reason, which could rightly be extended to those making political contributions as well.
This is not the language of acceptance. This is not the language of compromise. This IS the language of “If you don’t agree with me, you deserve to be punished and if you say the wrong thing or support a different cause than I support, you deserve whatever the crazies from my persuasion decide to do to you.”
TOJ—I’ve noticed this same hypocrisy coming from the “tolerant left” for many years, although to get them to admit as much is impossible. The “gay marriage” issue is a prime example. Rather than acknowledging that there might be an honest difference of opinion on this issue, I hear statements like the following blog entry coming from the lefties on a regular basis:
“Get over your sicko bigoted phobias”
Here’s directly from Webster’s dictionary under the heading “marriage”: 1. the institution whereby men and women are joined in a special kind of social and legal dependence for the purpose of founding and maintaining a family.
By USinUK
February 16, 2009 12:02 PM | Link to this
Bruno -
“Charlize Theron just doesn’t do it for me, possibly because I’ve heard her whining about various political issues ala Madonna”
um. at least be fair about Charlize Theron - she speaks about violence against women, which is something she has had personal, first-hand experience with (her mother was abused and she was raped)
so, cut her a little slack, k?
By Bruno
February 16, 2009 12:06 PM | Link to this
now, it seems that the 15-year-old mother slept with at least 2 other boys - all with her parents’ consent - both of which say they’re the father of the kid.
if you thought the mother of 14 was sad, this truly is tragic on any number of levels.
USinUK—I’m confused. I thought that you have come out solidly in support of teen sex in the past, as long as the parents dispense the appropriate birth control. Did I miss something?
By The Other jack
February 16, 2009 12:12 PM | Link to this
USinUK
I like Austin, too. I did find out that the idea is not new, in fact our biggest competitor has been doing this for a couple of months, but it is so poorly marketed that nobody knew. My biggest problem now is thinking too small, but still figuring out how to take it from East Atlanta and North Dallas to London and Tokyo without mortgaging the farm.
I could have sworn it was Schumer, but you are right. But the issue isn’t whether or not he meant well. It was that all over the internet are headlines that say “White Construction Workers Need Not Apply”. This tells me that there is a huge number of people that did not like what was being said, whether it was meant to be benign or not. We can argue about whether or not he should have said that, but because you disagree with me, I’m not going to be looking you up or fire bombing your house. Neither one of us work construction or are unemployed. My perspective may be a lot different if I had just watched my convertible being towed away and my house going on the auction block because I am a White construction worker who can’t find a job.
The point that I am making is that people should not need to live in fear of reprisals for what they support, especially if it is only support through a small amount of money. I am certain that you would not want the list of supporters of Reich’s campaign to be distributed throughout the unemployed White construction worker community in his state.
No where did a single liberal mention that some liberal stances just might inspire violence against their supporters. So is it OK when the roles are reversed as well? Is it OK if a person is pro-choice but living in an extremely pro-life community, if that person’s abortion stance is made public? Is reprisals against the single woman who just happened to donate money to the Pro-Choice movement as acceptable as the reprisals against the people who voted for Prop 8?
It has nothing to do with what you or I think that Reich actually meant. It has everything to do with reprisals against supporting causes. For every conservative that supported prop 8 that so many people here think that they should be punished for their stance, there are liberals that support abortions. Should pro-life crazies (of course II am not saying that all pro-lifers are crazy) have their names, also?
For everyone that so gladly supported reprisals against people who do not think like they think, are reprisals against you OK, by people who don’t think like you?
By USinUK
February 16, 2009 12:13 PM | Link to this
Bruno -
“On the other hand, if such disclosures lead to people being fired from their jobs or being otherwise harassed, I don’t think that that would be right. We have secret balloting in this country for a reason, which could rightly be extended to those making political contributions as well.”
well said.
“I’ve noticed this same hypocrisy coming from the “tolerant left” for many years, although to get them to admit as much is impossible”
not quite as well said. I like to jokingly say that we refuse to put up with intolerance, but the fact is that’s pretty much the truth of it. Why should anyone put up with intolerance? or, to put it another way, why should anyone legitimize bigotry, even when it’s wrapped in the Old Testament?
By Bruno
February 16, 2009 12:15 PM | Link to this
she speaks about violence against women
I don’t think that speaking out against violence is truly a “political stance”, since hopefully we’re all against violence. At the same time, there is a positive way to make your point, and a negative way. From my recollection, Charlize has typically chosen the negative way.
What I was referring to more specifically was her blanket condemnation of Americans for not being politically aware enough, not reading the newspaper enough, etc. Here’s a YouTube link to illustrate:
youtube. com/watch?v=ueKbRdV9Vr4&feature=related (delete space)
By Bruno
February 16, 2009 12:22 PM | Link to this
Why should anyone put up with intolerance?
The problem I have with this outlook, USinUK, is that anyone who agrees with the Webster definition of marriage is now a bigot. By re-framing the argument this way, no further discussion is possible.
By American Woman
February 16, 2009 12:23 PM | Link to this
I think we ALL have a right to know who is behind ANY initiative to deny one minority subset of citizens the right to government privileges enjoyed by the majority. I stand behind my assertion that if you’re going to fund that sort of thing, but not admit it publicly, then you’re a coward. It’s not the same as donating to charity; it’s donating to remove the rights of others to do what you can freely do. In the instance of Prop 8, these were rights for which others had already fought and won.
Bigots and cowards are all free to mind their OWN business and deal with their OWN marital issues. In the “Land of the Free,” there’s no proposed referendum against THAT!
Equality!
By USinUK
February 16, 2009 12:25 PM | Link to this
Bruno -
“I thought that you have come out solidly in support of teen sex in the past, as long as the parents dispense the appropriate birth control. Did I miss something?”
I believe you did. I have always said that ideally kids will wait until they’re at least in their late teans (17, 18) so that they’re better able to deal with it all. What I do believe is that kids should have age-appropriate sex ed early and often so that they are armed with the knowledge of how to keep themselves safe and healthy.
By Mara
February 16, 2009 12:27 PM | Link to this
TOJ - you cited my post, “So the whole point of compaign finance laws is ‘hate’ and ‘hate campaigns’ against the poor christian voter? Of course it couldn’t possibly be to ensure that voter initiatives are actually being supported by the voters and not just a small cabal of the very rich. Oh, no. It just has to for a hate campaign.” as an example of “the language of “If you don’t agree with me, you deserve to be punished and if you say the wrong thing or support a different cause than I support, you deserve whatever the crazies from my persuasion decide to do to you.”
Please explain to me how this is the language of exclusion, since the only exclusion it touches on is Shaunti’s exclusion of any reason to have initiative supporters names publically available other than some kind of hate campaign. I fail to see how pointing out that there are other uses for the public record besides hate campaigns.
IMHO, all donations to a political cause whether it be in support of a candidate, a law, statute, or initiative, should be part of the public record. If you find nothing wrong with people hiding in the shadows while they influence the government and change the law, that is your perogative. Just because I don’t agree with you doesn’t mean I think you have no right to that opinion.
By Mara
February 16, 2009 12:35 PM | Link to this
Bruno - The problem I have with this outlook, USinUK, is that anyone who agrees with the Webster definition of marriage is now a bigot.
From the Mirriam-Webster Dictionary -
Main Entry: mar·riage
Pronunciation: \ˈmer-ij, ˈma-rij\
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English mariage, from Anglo-French, from marier to marry
Date: 14th century
1 a (1): the state of being united to a person of the opposite sex as husband or wife in a consensual and contractual relationship recognized by law
(2): the state of being united to a person of the same sex in a relationship like that of a traditional marriage
b: the mutual relation of married persons :
wedlock c: the institution whereby individuals are joined in a marriage
2: an act of marrying or the rite by which the married status is effected ; especially : the wedding ceremony and attendant festivities or formalities
3: an intimate or close union
Webster includes ‘same sex marriage’ within the definition of marriage…
By USinUK
February 16, 2009 12:36 PM | Link to this
TOJ -
fingers crossed for the new business venture (especially in this kind of economic climate) …
“It was that all over the internet are headlines that say “White Construction Workers Need Not Apply”. This tells me that there is a huge number of people that did not like what was being said, whether it was meant to be benign or not.”
ah, it tells me that a lot of people took what was said out of context, looking for the cheap sound-byte. (shrug) both sides of the aisle are guilty of it.
I think the sentiment was right, just poorly stated - this $$$ shouldn’t go SOLELY to white construction workers … or Hispanic dentists … or African-American school teachers. It should go to a number of different sectors that will help men and women of all races. Which is something I think we can all agree with.
“No where did a single liberal mention that some liberal stances just might inspire violence against their supporters. So is it OK when the roles are reversed as well?”
first of all, violence for intimidation is NEVER okay - not for liberal or conservative issues. I don’t think anyone here is advocating for it, either, even on Friday.
secondly, I agree with Bruno that we need to balance transparency with the principle of the secret ballot - whether the threshold is $100, $250 or $1000, there should be some level above which donors are disclosed - but also have a level at which people can participate in secret if they so choose. but, we the people also have the right to know who exactly the is behind the organization “People for the blahblahblah”. Would that be a perfect system? probably not. but it’s the best I got.
By American Woman
February 16, 2009 12:40 PM | Link to this
Webster gives two nuances for the word bigot: “a person obstinately or intolerantly devoted to his or her own opinions and prejudices ; especially : one who regards or treats the members of a group (as a racial or ethnic group) with hatred and intolerance”
I think most of us are obstinately devoted to our own opinions, so by that definition, most of us are bigots! But I don’t go out of my way to affect the law to deny rights to members of a certain group. So that makes me LESS of a bigot than those who do, IMO. Your interpretation of Webster’s may vary.
By USinUK
February 16, 2009 12:42 PM | Link to this
Bruno -
“The problem I have with this outlook, USinUK, is that anyone who agrees with the Webster definition of marriage is now a bigot. By re-framing the argument this way, no further discussion is possible.”
what are we doing now??? discussing it.
but, to say that the people who are against gay marriage base their viewpoint on Websters and not King James is being a little dishonest, don’t you think? I mean, come on.
as for as Charlize Theron, “What I was referring to more specifically was her blanket condemnation of Americans for not being politically aware enough, not reading the newspaper enough”
she’s right on the money - and that’s not really being political, is it? it’s not saying “vote so-and-so” or “Free Tibet” - it’s saying be involved, educate yourself on the issues. (The Brits are pretty danged politically lazy, too, fwiw)
By The Other jack
February 16, 2009 12:42 PM | Link to this
UASinUK
Yes, I loved the ad. E-Trade has a new spot with the talking baby about playing golf. It is a scream.
Bruno
I’m trying to be a more positive person so I’m avoiding words like hypocrisy. People do tend to look at only their side of the coin. I thought a lot of the reactions here were over the top, but the point I was trying to make is that there are a lot of conservatives that would be just as over the top, but would reprisals from those people be as acceptable as the reprosals that many here seemed to be in approval of.
I, living in this fortress of liberalism of East Atlanta would never dare to put a political sign in my yard. I would never put a bumper sticker on my car and i think you know why. Many peopple here might approve of a rock being tossed through my window if I put an anti-Obama poster in my yard, but would they approve of a rock being thrown throuigh the window of a liberal for putting a pro-Obama poster in their yard? You and I both know the answer to that.
Are you doing OK?
By Bruno
February 16, 2009 12:43 PM | Link to this
I think we ALL have a right to know who is behind ANY initiative to deny one minority subset of citizens the right to government privileges enjoyed by the majority.
why should anyone legitimize bigotry, even when it’s wrapped in the Old Testament?
AW and USinUK—I fully appreciate the passion which you have for your viewpoint of extending similar benefits to gay couples that straight couples can enjoy. I hold a similar view. At the same time, to disrespect the fact that the vast majority of people define “marriage” the same way that Webster’s dictionary does is just plain goofy. And to characterize folks who understand marriage in this traditional way as bigots who come straight out of the Old Testament is hateful, IMO.
By Bruno
February 16, 2009 12:48 PM | Link to this
Webster includes ‘same sex marriage’ within the definition of marriage…
Mara—My home Webster’s dictionary doesn’t include the 2. same-sex union. Apparently even Webster can’t make up his mind. ; > }
Also, Mara, I am excluding you from the “intolerance” charge. In my experience, you are able to express your views in a strong, positive way without denigrating those who hold a different view.
By Gandalf, the White!
February 16, 2009 12:50 PM | Link to this
Mara, isn’t that sorta of the same thing as legislating from the bench? Deciding that now that it’s in Webster it real? Confusing!
By Gandalf, the White!
February 16, 2009 12:52 PM | Link to this
Contracters should bid, lowest bid should win. Now that we have a President that has heritage other than Euro-American, all this Bull Stuff about Quotas and afirmative action is dead. No more Afirmative action! The only decent thing to come out of Barry’s election!
By American Woman
February 16, 2009 12:55 PM | Link to this
So, if I call the people who used the Old Testament to justify slavery and (still hearing this today, surprisingly) condemn inter-racial marriage “bigots,” then I’m just being hateful? Okay. So sorry. I’ll try to be a better person like you.
By Bruno
February 16, 2009 1:07 PM | Link to this
I think most of us are obstinately devoted to our own opinions, so by that definition, most of us are bigots!
Passion for one’s viewpoint is perfectly acceptable in my worldview, though that doesn’t necessitate disrespecting others’ views. I think a good analogy can be found in rooting for a particular sports team. I root for the GA Bulldogs, though I still have respect for Auburn (maybe not last year in particular). Can you say the same??
But I don’t go out of my way to affect the law to deny rights to members of a certain group. So that makes me LESS of a bigot than those who do, IMO
Careful not to hurt your arm trying to pat yourself on the back, AW. I don’t particularly want to get into a protracted philosophical argument regarding moral absolutism vs. moral relativism, but moral absolutism requires defining words in specific ways and subsequently taking “narrow-minded” positions based on those restrictive definitions. As such, moral absolutism is definitely more “discriminatory”, but that doesn’t mean that it is inferior to moral relativism. Why?? Because, ultimately, to use a cliche, if you don’t stand for something, then you will fall for anything. Under moral relativism, anything goes as long as you can create a clever argument to support it, which isn’t that hard to do.
By Bruno
February 16, 2009 1:09 PM | Link to this
I’ll try to be a better person like you.
One of these days I’ll figure out why you and I can’t have a discussion without insulting one another. Pretty sad—for both of us.
By The Other jack
February 16, 2009 1:13 PM | Link to this
USinUK
Strangely enough, I totally agree, but you weren’t one of the people who were saying some pretty outrageous things about this. The quotes i listed were seriously bitter. Calling someone a cowardly little twit just might be construed as a statement that the poster just might not have a lot of respect for that person’s opinion.
Violence or intimidation is never OK, but it seems like the only reason why so many have said that they support transparency is to put those people out there to let people know who they are so they can be punished. “Cowardly little twit” tells me that they should have something to be afraid of. I took it to mean, if you support an issue, don’t be a cowardly little twit and just stand up and deal with anyone who wants to hurt you. That seems a little crazy to me.
Our little protest against the Atlanta police chief at Little Five Points last week made NBC News this weekend. I didn’t wear a tee shirt with my name and address on it for a reason. I’m certainly not afraid, but I would rather the civilized world not know who that guy is that is protesting the establishment. A White guy protesting against a Black police chief? THat alone is reason enough to get your head blown off.
By Bruno
February 16, 2009 1:18 PM | Link to this
I’m trying to be a more positive person so I’m avoiding words like hypocrisy.
I applaud your efforts, TOJ, not just for the sake of the blog, but for your well-being as a person. In my experience, once we start using inflammatory language, any chance of cooperation and mutual understanding goes out the window.
In a related point, I’ve stopped watching the Hannity show now that Allen Comes (sp?) is gone. I always admired and respected Allen for the respect that he showed toward others, something that Hannity needs to work on.
By Mara
February 16, 2009 1:19 PM | Link to this
Gandy, don’t make me laugh. ‘Legislating from the bench’ is a conservative conceit based on their self-image of being victims of the evil ‘liberal establishment’. It is very telling that the only jurists who get accused of ‘legislating from the bench’ are judges who don’t rule the way the conservatives WANT him to rule…regardless of the actual law or existing precendent.
And I wasn’t the one who brought up Websters definition, I merely posted it in its entirety.
————————————————————————————————Bruno - Apparently even Webster can’t make up his mind. ; > }
I hear ya. I’ve found that dictionaries need to be replaced every five years or so, but then I’m something of a amature etymologist, so maybe that’s just me. I used to have a subscription to OED on-line but had to cancel it because I couldn’t afford it anymore. So sas :^(
thank you. I try. Really I do. But I have to admit that sometimes I just lose patience and get as snipey as the next lass.
By American Woman
February 16, 2009 1:23 PM | Link to this
Dude, you’re the one who brought up the dictionary (and Old Testament) to make your points… though if you’ve attempted to make a point beyond your assertion that civil rights proponents are discriminatory and hateful toward civil rights opponents, I fail to see it. Anyone can use those books to make whatever point they wish. Regarding the personal stuff: (a) I’m not pretending to be something I’m not, and (b) I don’t care.
By Bruno
February 16, 2009 1:24 PM | Link to this
Are you doing OK?
Thanks for the inquiry, TOJ. I recently quit my job, so I’ve definitely seen better days. I’m thinking seriously about trying to play poker for a living, but that’s a hard row to hoe.
Hope all is well with you, friend.
By Gale
February 16, 2009 1:26 PM | Link to this
I am amazed when I hear conservatives saying they should not need to fear reprisals from people who do not think as they do; that they would fear to have their name associated with anti-gay legislation because the gay community might boycott their business or send them nastygrams. You do realized that the gay community has been on the receiving end of much worse just because they are gay? You have, I am sure, heard of gays being beaten to death, shot in their own yards, had their homes burned for the “sin” of being gay? I am very glad to be out. But it does not mean that everyone in my world thinks it is just dandy. We should look to states where gay marriage is legal. Those states have not been turned to salt.
By The Other jack
February 16, 2009 1:27 PM | Link to this
American Woman
“So, if I call the people who used the Old Testament to justify slavery and (still hearing this today, surprisingly) condemn inter-racial marriage “bigots,” then I’m just being hateful? Okay. So sorry. I’ll try to be a better person like you.”
You can call them anything you want. That’s what Freedom of Speech is all about. What you appeared to be saying is that if they do not share your opinion, they should be exposed to people that might hurt them for their beliefs. That’s what the whole transparency debate is all about. If there is another reason why you would want a person’s name made public because of a small donation, then please tell me what it is.
I want to protect the person that might vote for prop 8 just like I would want to protect you for voting yes on Pro-choice issues. Like USinUK is saying, if you become the spokesperson for the pro-choice movement, there is not much I can do to protect you any more than I can protect the person that becomes the spokesperson for prop 8. But you want their name on a public list for just donating a little money for a cause that you disagree with? Would you want your name distributed to people who supported Eric Robert Rudolf? I think not.
By Bruno
February 16, 2009 1:35 PM | Link to this
Legislating from the bench’ is a conservative conceit based on their self-image of being victims of the evil ‘liberal establishment’. It is very telling that the only jurists who get accused of ‘legislating from the bench’ are judges who don’t rule the way the conservatives WANT him to rule…regardless of the actual law or existing precendent.
Careful, Mara—I think the underlying issue re: legislating from the bench is again one of moral absolutism vs. moral relativism, and not one of imagined victimhood by conservatives. Again, I’ll have to use the “eminent domain” SC case as an example. The US Constitution is crystal clear in saying that the only time the govt. can seize private property is for public use. In the (liberal) majority opinion in that case, however, that specific language (public use) was (wrongly) changed to “public good, which IMO opened up a Pandora’s box under which any crazy law could be made as long as someone could cleverly argue that it was for the “public good”. That is why conservatives argue strongly for a literal interpretation of the Constitution.
As for precedent being a valid basis for re-interpreting the Constitution, that has to be a slippery slope if ever there was one. Just because one crazy judge made an incorrect ruling some time in the past doesn’t mean much to me.
By The Other jack
February 16, 2009 1:42 PM | Link to this
Bruno
Not a good time to quit your job. But I’ve been there.
Look into internet marketing. It’s really interesting. My partner on this idea I am working on is a millionaire that became a millionaire because he lost his job. Lots of ideas are being accepted right now that would have been tossed a few years ago. Like one of the guys in Dallas this weekend said, roll it in flour, look for the wet spot and dive in. There’s a lot of opportunities right now. (Gad, I’m starting to sound like Herb Tarlec from WKRP.)
I knew Sean Hannity when he worked at WGST. My ex was in broadcasting before she got her broker’s permit and worked for the Georgia Radio News Network which is also at WGST. He is what you see. He used to call me a liberal. I never have been a fan of his show. I do like O’Reilly. He seems to put it all in perspective.
.
By Bruno
February 16, 2009 1:44 PM | Link to this
(and Old Testament)
Sorry, that was USinUK who brought out her Bible and tried to claim that I got my views from the OT. Which, BTW, is a logical fallacy. If someone independently comes to a conclusion which is stated in the Bible, that doesn’t automatically make them a Bible thumper. Similarly, if Adolph Hitler liked the color blue, everyone who likes blue isn’t automatically a follower of Hitler. Comprende?
Regarding the personal stuff: (a) I’m not pretending to be something I’m not
Which I wouldn’t expect you to do. I just don’t see the point of characterizing anyone who disagrees with you as being bigoted, in the same way that you insult people who like TV programs that you don’t care for (American Idol, Dancing With The Stars).
(b) I don’t care.
If you were as secure in your views as you claim to be, I don’t think you would dish out the insults as frequently as you do.
By The Other jack
February 16, 2009 1:46 PM | Link to this
USinUK
BTW. THANKS A LOT.
Somewhere Beyond The Sea bounced around in my head all friggin’ weekend.
By The Other jack
February 16, 2009 1:48 PM | Link to this
Gale
Simple question: Would you support a person being put out of business because they were Pro-Choice?
By Bruno
February 16, 2009 1:51 PM | Link to this
she’s right on the money - and that’s not really being political, is it?
In the specific clip which I referenced, Ms. Theron took a not-so-veiled swipe at Americans who were outraged by the 9/11 attacks by implying that if we only “knew the history”, then we wouldn’t feel outraged. Total BS, which I’ve heard from many on the left side of the aisle.
By Gale
February 16, 2009 2:02 PM | Link to this
TOJ, No, nor would I support putting a person out of business if they were pro-life and a rabid anti-abortion type. Do you really think the (roughly) 10% of the population which is gay can put anyone out of business? The reason this has blown up recently is because the right to marry was in their hands and it was jerked away again. The reason they are making noise is the same reason the civil rights movement got in our faces with marches. Because people were not paying attention until the problem was in their face.
By Mara
February 16, 2009 2:03 PM | Link to this
Bruno - I’m not sure which South Carolina case you’re citing so there’s nothing I can really say about it…however…in regard to eminent domain in general, the widening of the definition of ‘public use’ to ‘public good’ began back in the 1800’s and has been tested and retested through both liberal and conservative courts. In the most recent case, Kelo v New London, the ruling had absolutely NOTHING to do with ‘liberal majorities’. It had do do with a hundred years of legal findings, i.e. - existing case law.
I stand by my judgement that ‘legislating from the bench’ is a complete misnomer of actual, legal findings that simply offend what conservatives believe to be right, not necessarily what the law actually says.
But I’ve had fun debating it. C-ya tomorrow.
By Bruno
February 16, 2009 2:22 PM | Link to this
I’m not sure which South Carolina case you’re citing
SC = Supreme Court, of course.
I’m something of a amature etymologist
I did get a chuckle from that (unintentional) misspelling, Mara. It almost qualified as an oxymoron. BTW, if you hadn’t noticed, understanding the root meaning of words has always been somewhat of a hobby of mine as well. Looking up the Latin or Old French meaning of words often sheds light on subtle shades of meaning that couldn’t be gleaned otherwise. One more reason that I’m hot for you.
C-ya tomorrow.
Parting is such sweet sorrow…..
Well, I guess I better get off my a* and start figuring out a way to make money. I think that I’m burned out permanently on health care.
Best wishes to all…….
By American Woman
February 16, 2009 2:22 PM | Link to this
“But you want their name on a public list for just donating a little money for a cause that you disagree with?”
TOJ, actually, the rules implemented to foster transparency in our government were not written by me. The $100 (or whatever it is) limit seems to be arbitrary, but I DO support transparency with regard to what goes on our ballot and who’s paying big bucks to advertise and promote its passage. My point was that the dollar amount you can donate anonymously is — or should be — clear to anyone who wants to donate. If your neighbors were forking over tens or hundreds of thousands of dollars to deny YOUR right to do what they do, wouldn’t YOU want to know who was behind it? Sorry, but I would support your right to know. (It’s kind of like the way we drag rape victims into court because a man has the right to face his accuser.) I’d bet you’d use worse language then I have used here about such neighbors (and I’d support that too!), but that’s just a guess.
By Kurken
February 16, 2009 2:23 PM | Link to this
Simple question: Would you support a person being put out of business because they were Pro-Choice?
It’s not as if this is some new tactic that’s pulled an Athena on us. Groups like Focus on the Family, The Christian Coalition, etc. have been using boycott tactics and concentrated non-participation campaigns to attack gay and gay-friendly businesses for years.
Isn’t that “the power of your dollar” that we hear about so often?
By The Other jack
February 16, 2009 2:35 PM | Link to this
Gale
“Do you really think the (roughly) 10% of the population which is gay can put anyone out of business? ”
Ask a Haite Ashbury shopkeeper if they believe that a gay boycott could shut them down. Hell, ask a Virginia Highlands business own the same question.
Apparently I misunderstood what you said, but I am glad that you understand that any reprisals against people who disagree with your beliefs can easily be turned around.
Mara
“I fail to see how pointing out that there are other uses for the public record besides hate campaigns.”
There are other reasons for buying nitro glycerin too, but you still can’t buy it over the counter because a small amount soaked into cardboard and sealed in wax is a stick of dynamite. People should not be subject to abuse for supporting a cause and opening lists of donors can do exactly that.
Almost every political stance that we take that helps somebody, usually hurts someone else. It was great for the Black guy that was just hired because of affirmative action but not so great for the White guy that was refused a job because of affirmative action. You have every right in the world to support affirmative action, but the White guy has every right in the world to oppose it.
Would it be OK if your name was released as a Pro-Choice supporter to the supporters of Eric Robert Rudolf? Wouldn’t it make sense that the people with a vendetta against you for supporting abortions could use that list, even if there may be a positive reason for the list?
I do need to ask. What positive, non-hate campaign reason can you list as being a reason for releasing such lists? We have discussed this for two days and all I have seen is that the lists would make people pay for their sins. Please tell me another use for the lists.
By USinUK
February 16, 2009 2:39 PM | Link to this
TOJ -
“Somewhere Beyond The Sea bounced around in my head all friggin’ weekend.”
my job here is done. mwahahahahahah … just be glad it wasn’t a Karen Carpenter song!!! ;-)
Bruno -
The OT reference wasn’t about you, but you have to admit that THAT is the reason that is cited for being against gay marriage. Not Miriam Webster.
And, while I’m sorry that you see me calling a spade a spade as being “hateful”, I don’t think that it is. It’s akin to saying that someone is against abortion because of their religious beliefs - it’s not a judgement, it’s a statement of fact.
And, after 29 years of living in the South, if there’s one thing I understand, it’s religious conviction - and, believe it or not, I respect it. However, that doesn’t mean that I thnk someone’s religious conviction should outweigh someone else’s civil rights.
or do you believe that I should also be tolerant of someone’s religious conviction that their 12-year-old daughter should have her c****** cut off so that she doesn’t become sexually promiscuous … ??? (BTW - this is not meant to be argumentative - I’m just trying to show you why the religious conviction argument doesn’t really do it for me)
By Bruno
February 16, 2009 3:00 PM | Link to this
you have to admit that THAT is the reason that is cited for being against gay marriage. Not Miriam Webster.
Actually, I think that NEITHER the Bible nor the Dictionary are the basis from which most people decide the “normality” of homosexuality. It’s more of a biological issue IMO. To most people, the idea of one man sticking his dick in another man’s a* is just plain gross. Is that plain enough for you??
It’s akin to saying that someone is against abortion because of their religious beliefs - it’s not a judgement, it’s a statement of fact.
Ditto for abortion. Admittedly, some people who can’t articulate their reasons for being either for or against something often fall back on the Bible in a blind appeal to authority, but deep inside, I think most people decide what is right or wrong based simply on their own ideas of what is “normal” or not, on what is abhorrent or not. For being a “shades of grey” liberal, you seem to be taking a very black-and-white/no-room-for-disagreement stance on this.
And, after 29 years of living in the South, if there’s one thing I understand, it’s religious conviction - and, believe it or not, I respect it. However, that doesn’t mean that I thnk someone’s religious conviction should outweigh someone else’s civil rights.
Again, hon, I think that you’re using a “guilt by association” argument here. If someone comes to the same conclusion that the Bible does, it doesn’t automatically mean that their view is Biblically-based. BTW, I’ve been in the South for 28 years myself, so I know a little about being Southern, even though AW has already told me that because I wasn’t born here, that I can never be “in the club”.
or do you believe that I should also be tolerant of someone’s religious conviction that their 12-year-old daughter should have her c* cut off so that she doesn’t become sexually promiscuous* … ???
FGM has NEVER been a religious issue, because no where is it mentioned in either the Bible or the Qu’ran. It is a cultural practice particular to certain areas of Eastern Africa such as Ethiopia and Somalia.
To quote you, “Your argument needs work”.
P.S. WHy do I have the feeling that you and I could argue for days, months, years, decades, or centuries, and never agree??? But, I love you no matter what. ; > }
By Bruno
February 16, 2009 3:05 PM | Link to this
just be glad it wasn’t a Karen Carpenter song!
FYI, I LOVE Karen Carpenter. Sometimes I play “We’ve Only Just Begun” 3-4 times in a row. (I know, they got the idea for the song from a TV commercial). High praises also for the song “For All We Know”. I’m just a sap at heart, I guess.
Love, look at the two of us, strangers in so many ways……Let’s take a lifetime to say, “I knew you well”
How can it get any better than that??
By Bruno
February 16, 2009 3:27 PM | Link to this
I just thought of a great song dedication to you, USinUK—“Superwoman, by Stevie Wonder:
Mary wants to be a superwoman And try to boss the bull around But does she really think that she will get by with a dream
My woman want to be a superwoman And i just had to say good-bye Because i can’t spend all my hours start to cry
But, very well, i believe i know you Very well wish that you knew me too Very well, and i think i can deal with everything going through your head
By Gandalf, the White!
February 16, 2009 3:39 PM | Link to this
Bruno if only Karen could have sung some jazz! My quote for today! Any one know who said this?: “Guns cause crime like wet sidewalks cause rain, cameras cause pornography, and spoons cause Rosie to be fat and stupid.”
By USinUK
February 16, 2009 3:42 PM | Link to this
Bruno -
“P.S. WHy do I have the feeling that you and I could argue for days, months, years, decades, or centuries, and never agree??? But, I love you no matter what. ; > }”
right back at ya, poop!! :-)
“I think that NEITHER the Bible nor the Dictionary are the basis from which most people decide the “normality” of homosexuality”
aahhhh … but we’re not talking about whether or not people think it’s “normal”, we’re talking about the people who are fighting tooth and nail to prohibit a certain class of person from marrying. them’s 2 different things. I think a lot of folks are like my dad and say “do what you want in the privacy of your own home - just don’t tell me about it”. But, then you have an incredibly vocal group of people who are whipping up a frenzy to prohibit a certain group of people from achieving the same legal status they have.
“To most people, the idea of one man sticking his dick in another man’s a* is just plain gross. Is that plain enough for you??”
yeah - and those same people don’t seem to have a problem with the “normalcy” of girl-on-girl action … funny that.
“but deep inside, I think most people decide what is right or wrong based simply on their own ideas of what is “normal” or not, on what is abhorrent or not. For being a “shades of grey” liberal, you seem to be taking a very black-and-white/no-room-for-disagreement stance on this.”
I think I jsut don’t agree with your use of the word “normal” … maybe if you changed it to “acceptable” (especially in regards to abortion), I might see your point a bit more readily.
“FGM has NEVER been a religious issue, because no where is it mentioned in either the Bible or the Qu’ran. It is a cultural practice particular to certain areas of Eastern Africa such as Ethiopia and Somalia.”
and no where did Christ ever say anything about homosexuality, but that doesn’t stop people from using the Bible to preach against it, either (especially Christians, who seem to forget that Christ was the new covenant, rendering the OT moot)
FGM wasn’t mentioned in either book - but chastity is - as is women obeying their husbands - both of which have been used to justify stoning, beating, and otherwise degrading women to being less than men. And that’s BOTH books - not jsut the Koran/Qu’ran/youknowwhatImean
(oh, and WAY TO GO, AJC patrol gnomes … I used the correct medical term - the one that rhymes with Delores - and you STILL edited me … nice one)
“High praises also for the song “For All We Know”. I’m just a sap at heart, I guess.”
for all we know is a GORgeous song, I agree. my office-mate and I used to torment her husband by IMing or e-mailing Close to You one line at a time to him. so, to me, Carpenters = torment.
By Bruno
February 16, 2009 3:45 PM | Link to this
Guns cause crime like wet sidewalks cause rain, cameras cause pornography, and spoons cause Rosie to be fat and stupid.
Too easy for me, Gandalf. I’m guessing most of the Libs will have to google that one.
By The Other jack
February 16, 2009 3:49 PM | Link to this
USinUK
“just be glad it wasn’t a Karen Carpenter song!!!”
That’s it. I’m coming to lymy land. Prepare to protect yourself!!!
One of the greatest female vocalist of our time. Aretha first and then Karen. And Aretha takes the lead only because of Karen’s idiot brother, Richard.
Seriously, her voice and her control is pretty much in a league of her own. The timbre and power is just unmatched. Her brother understood her strengths, but his arrangements were so elevator music that he almost ruined her. I have seen interviews with musicians and they all hated him. The music just had no character, but Karen? 99% of vocalists don’t even come close.
By USinUK
February 16, 2009 3:51 PM | Link to this
Night all … pasta del fuego
By The Other jack
February 16, 2009 3:59 PM | Link to this
USinUK
“and those same people don’t seem to have a problem with the “normalcy” of girl-on-girl action … funny that.”
Not all people. Just guys. We are all natural born lesbians. I’ve learned a lot from watching lesbian porn. I have to side with Bruno on this one. I don’t want to touch a guy and I don’t want a guy to touch me. I know that is what some guys like and more power to them, but don’t call me names because I can’t get into the same things. (Not you, just people in general)
By Bruno
February 16, 2009 4:08 PM | Link to this
One of the greatest female vocalist of our time. Aretha first and then Karen.
I’m with you on that ranking, TOJ. If you get a chance, play Aretha’s rendition of the Burt Bacharach song “Say A Little Prayer”. Tears my heart out every time. She projects such power, yet reveals a vulnerability in that song that you just want to hug her. My all-time fav Aretha song is probably “Day Dreaming”.
By Gale
February 16, 2009 4:15 PM | Link to this
Bruno, re: 3:00. Why is it people opposing homosexuality always come back to two reasons? It’s icky. (Dispite the fact straight couples enjoy the noted form of recreation as well as gay men.) and My god doesn’t like it. Same sex marriage, same sex love, is about more than sex. Marriage is a civil contract and love is a feeling that has nothing to do with religion. I think USinUK said something about ‘I don’t care what you do in your house, just don’t tell me about it.’ Why is this so hard for some people? As long as you aren’t beating your spouse or children or otherwise breaking the law, why should anyone care what goes on in your house or mine?
By Gale
February 16, 2009 4:19 PM | Link to this
TOJ: “We are all natural born lesbians.” Excuse me?!?!
If you learned all there is to know about women from watching lesbian porn, you are seriously missing the mark. Besides, most “lesbian porn” is aimed at turning on straight men anyway. I understand why you would want to watch it. But really, don’t think of it as teaching you anything about women or lesbians.
By Bruno
February 16, 2009 4:41 PM | Link to this
Why is it people opposing homosexuality always come back to two reasons? It’s icky. (Dispite the fact straight couples enjoy the noted form of recreation as well as gay men.) and My god doesn’t like it. Same sex marriage, same sex love, is about more than sex. Marriage is a civil contract and love is a feeling that has nothing to do with religion. I think USinUK said something about ‘I don’t care what you do in your house, just don’t tell me about it.’ Why is this so hard for some people? As long as you aren’t beating your spouse or children or otherwise breaking the law, why should anyone care what goes on in your house or mine?
Gale, those are some very complex questions, so I probably won’t be able to give you a good answer. In the end, I think that our brains automatically categorize things as being “normal” and “acceptable”, or as being “abnormal” or “unacceptable”. Often there is no apparent logical reasons behind the judgments, although a sociologist might argue that there is a survival benefit by making such distinctions. Think of TOJ’s hen house concept—when a baby chick appears to be deformed or abnormal in any way, it is common for the other chicks to gang up and peck it to death. I don’t fully understand that phenomenon, but it it is a common situation nonetheless. And though we like to believe that we humans are more sophisticated than chickens, I’ve often witnessed the same behavior in people ( e.g. high school cliques). As for the blind appeals to “God” or the Bible, I personally view that as a lack of courage/critical thinking skills on the part of the “religious” person.
Let me turn the question back to you: Why does society confer benefits to married couples in the first place?? Ultimately, I believe it comes back to procreation and providing a stable home for the children. Childless couples do unfairly enjoy the benefits of this arrangement, of course, but there is no way to distinguish between the two on the front end at the time of the union. Currently, two consenting adults CAN so whatever they want behind closed doors, so that isn’t really the issue regarding gay marriage.
Most of my life, I’ve felt like an “outsider” for various reasons, so I empathize with your plight as a gay person for not feeling that you are completely accepted. As you should know by now, i support the idea of a civil union for any two people to enter into, regardless of sex, creed or religious affiliation.
By The Other jack
February 16, 2009 6:52 PM | Link to this
gale
Lighten up. I was trying to be funny. And exactly when did I say that i learned everything I know about women from watching lesbian porn?
If you are looking for an enemy of gay people, Bruno nor I are it. I don’t care what you do, but I don’t want a guy to touch me and if I am not mistaken, you said the exact same thing last week.
Jeeze, girl. Why is it so important that we are your enemy?
By Frustrated
February 17, 2009 8:33 AM | Link to this
YAY, we are back to abortion and gay marriage…..
Anyway, I just have to say I got upset when I retreived the mail this weekend…. I received a baby shower invitation…..for a 3rd baby!!!!! Is it just me or are people reaching a little far on what they are expecting these days?!?!?!?!?!
All you ladies out there, what do you feel about getting invitations to showers for 2nd, 3rd, etc etc babies??? Maybe if it were family or close friends, but good grief…..Maybe it is just me, I think I woke up on the wrong side of the bed this morning
By Gandalf, the White!
February 17, 2009 9:23 AM | Link to this
1 a: happily excited : merry b: keenly alive and exuberant : having or inducing high spirits 2 a: bright , lively b: brilliant in color 3: given to social pleasures ; also : licentious
We are all gay at some point! Stupid use of the word. Queer isn’t it either… HOMOSEXUAL…that word is the one to use!
By Gandalf, the White!
February 17, 2009 9:25 AM | Link to this
Frustrated send them condoms and boycott the event! The nerve of them breeders! Having a 3rd kid! There should be a tax for anyone having more than 1! Oops, I forgot about welfare mothers…my bad!
By American Woman
February 17, 2009 9:26 AM | Link to this
Frustrated, apparently this “friend” was not raised right!!! It’s only appropriate to throw a baby shower for subsequent babies if the second child follows a number of years after the first, so that the baby gear would already have been passed along to someone else. Only the VERY closest people like moms & best friends should have a gift-bearing celebration for the second or third baby, perhaps if the mom is in need of gender-specific clothing for the new spawn. But yes, I receive these as well, am equally horrified, and of course RSVP with “regrets.” Geez.
By The Other jack
February 17, 2009 9:43 AM | Link to this
Bruno
My favorite “cool” Aretha song is the old rascals “Groovin”
I attended a dinner a few years ago where she performed. I had always loved the song Willing to Forgive, but after her singing it live, I honestly get broken up every time I hear it. People in the audience were openly crying. Her voice broke several times during the song. i have been around live music my whole life and i have never seen anything like it. This is a woman who has really been hurt and she let it all out.
I read her letter. and I saw her picture and I smelled her cheap perfume, it must have come from you How could you touch her, lay down beside her, well, there just ain’t no excuse, you shouldn’t have been so loose.
I saw the telephone bill you must be out of your mind. If you think you can smooth it out boy, you’re just wasting your time
Well, I’m willing to forgive you but I can’t forget cause you really really really really hurt me this time And I guess I can go on although I must admit, I’ve been busy busy busy busy thinking about messing around some times.
You’re such a liar, you took her and her children out for the afternoon, while I was setting waiting home for you How coud you do it. You should have been here with me, you just couldn’t do it, you had to be in the street
Well I heard it through the grapevine you’ve been messin round well you thought you were gettin over, guess what this baby girl found
I gave my heart, I gave a child gave my soul cause love is blind, I can’t explain this poor excuse for the man for the boy who was born to lose, I pay the rent, I washed your clothes, cooked your food, and all God knows, God knows why I stay with you. I guess I’m in love.
The recorded version was actually produced by Babyface. If they would have caught that live version that night, it would probably still be on the charts.
By USinUK
February 17, 2009 9:48 AM | Link to this
morning all …
well, I don’t know what anyone else is doing today, but I went and gave blood and nearly passed out … TWICE! I’m usually only good for 1 woozy spell, so 2 is a whole new record for me. you know you’re not doing well when the nurse looks at you and says “I really don’t like your color”.
“Is it just me or are people reaching a little far on what they are expecting these days?!?!?!?!?!”
yeah - show up with some flowers for the mom - and if anyone asks, you can just say “oh, I didn’t know you were expecting presents since this is your THIRD” …
… or, even better … do bring a present … the latest edition of Miss Manners with a bookmark in the chapter about showers past the first child and/or 2nd marriage!!!
By Frustrated
February 17, 2009 9:57 AM | Link to this
Gandalf—I didn’t realize the subject of baby showers touched a nerve with you….hmmm, I learn something new every day…
AW- Those are my thoughts too!!! (except for the part of being raised right, I am sure her mother is red in the face) And this is her first girl, but still….the only thing she should need are clothes, her other two are age 4 and 2, so it isn’t like she has been out of the game long enough to need new stuff..
Anywho, I’m over it, I just get irritated with the new fads going around and I am embarrassed to say it is coming from my generation, it is like no one was taught proper ettiquette(sp?) of how things need to go…..and don’t get me started on thank you notes or weddings!!!!
By USinUK
February 17, 2009 9:58 AM | Link to this
TOJ and Bruno -
I see where you’re coming from with Karen Carpenter (yay, 2nd altos!! the under-recognized women in the chorus) … but, up there with ReRe??? I just can’t agree on that one.
I think my Favorite Wimmen Vocalists of the past 50-ish years would be: #1 Ella, #2 Aretha, #3 Sarah V, # KD Lang and #5 Shirley Bassey (with honorable mentions to Nina Symone)
By Frustrated
February 17, 2009 10:02 AM | Link to this
“yeah - show up with some flowers for the mom - and if anyone asks, you can just say “oh, I didn’t know you were expecting presents since this is your THIRD” … “
HAHA, that is the kind of mood I was in when I opened the invite…. And just to clear things up, I LOOOOOOOVVVVVEEEE hosting showers for newlyweds or new moms-to-be, I love giving gifts to those who are anxiously awaiting the big day, what ever day that may be…..but I get really irritated with the “I deserve” attitude.
It is like the people that hang out after receptions and parties waiting for you to pack them up with leftovers, when they didn’t lift a finger or even TRY to help financially with the event. ARggggg.
By The Other jack
February 17, 2009 10:03 AM | Link to this
USinUK
Saw a piece on the 13 year old Dad last night. He looks like he is 9 years old. I didn’t realize they were in England.
Also saw where the quack that implanted 7 embryos that resulted with the litter of kids that most people believe will cost the State of California over 2 mil just to get them out of the hospital, a new welfare Mom is pregnant with quads because he once again implanted 7 embryos. This woman is in her late forties.
By USinUK
February 17, 2009 10:17 AM | Link to this
TOJ -
“Saw a piece on the 13 year old Dad last night. He looks like he is 9 years old. I didn’t realize they were in England.”
cereal. his voice hasn’t even broken, yet. sorry, but from what I remember of my AP biology in HS and 1 year in University, if they haven’t gone through puberty, boys are just shooting blanks - there are no little swimmers - and, let’s be blunt here - he is nowhere NEAR puberty right now.
and, to be frank, what thoroughly disgusts me - if we were talking about a 15-year old boy and a 12-year old girl - even if there wasn’t a pregnancy - we’d still be looking at some kind of charges — if not for the boy involved, then for BOTH sets of parents. I mean, really, giving boys permission to sleep with their 15-year old daughter??? GAH!!!
“a new welfare Mom is pregnant with quads because he once again implanted 7 embryos”
2 words: LICENSE. REVOCATION.
2 more words: Mal. Practice.
the people of CA should sue his butt.
By Gandalf, the White!
February 17, 2009 10:18 AM | Link to this
Frustrated I was serious! Send ‘em condoms!
By USinUK
February 17, 2009 10:24 AM | Link to this
Frustrated -
“but I get really irritated with the “I deserve” attitude”
sheesh - why are you apologizing??? we’re all entitled to get irritated when people are taking advantage (which, let’s be blunt here - that’s EXACTLY what’s happening)!
and I was serious about wrapping a Miss Manners book - and you can tell her you got her something she obviously NEEDS.
“It is like the people that hang out after receptions and parties waiting for you to pack them up with leftovers, when they didn’t lift a finger or even TRY to help financially with the event. ARggggg.”
girl, you need some new friends! move to England - I’ll bake for all your parties ;-)
By Frustrated
February 17, 2009 10:29 AM | Link to this
“a new welfare Mom is pregnant with quads because he once again implanted 7 embryos”
Are the moms asking for this many to be implanted or is he suggesting it? I saw it that he was going to be on the news, but I missed it…. I am just wondering if it is more him or the mothers involved….
By The Other jack
February 17, 2009 10:32 AM | Link to this
USinUK
Karen is a tragic case. Her music is very white-bread, but her voice is more about control and power. Her brother didn’t produce her last album so the music is a lot stronger, but she did a bunch of songs that were simply out of her register. Her power is as an alto, not a soprano. When she went up in her range, all that deep rich resonance just disappeared.
Aretha was a gospel singer and was actually brought into the Pop world by, of all people, Mitch Miller. She was hired as a Mitch Miller singer, but it is really hard to find a reference to that. A lot of her early songs were produced by Miller, but of course Jerry Wexler produced Queen of Soul which was her first big break out album. She also had a baby when she was 13 and one when she was 15. Kinda makes you understand the depths of her emotions, especially when you consider that her dad was a minister.
I’m with you on Ella, but you did leave out Billy Holiday. I loved Blood Sweet and Tears but I hated what they did with God Bless the Child. I played with a female singer for a little while as a dinner music act and we did a nice version of that song.
Sarah Vaughn, absolutely but not a big fan of Bassey or KD Lang. At that point you are getting into very stylistic voices and especially in the case of Lang, the style superseded the skills. Sort of like Rod Stewart.
Of course I like Patsy Cline and Dionne Warwick. The woman I played with loved both those singers and we did almost every song that Patsy Cline ever sang. Playing solo or just with a singer is hard work. I never liked the gig, even though it paid pretty well.
Modern singers like Faith Hill and Nora Jones are good but I have never been a fan of Mariah Carry. I watched Aretha make mince meat out of her on a Deva show and it tickled me to death.
By USinUK
February 17, 2009 10:33 AM | Link to this
Frustrated -
“I saw it that he was going to be on the news, but I missed it…. I am just wondering if it is more him or the mothers involved…”
ethical guidelines are for no more than 3 embryos to be implanted
By Mara
February 17, 2009 10:34 AM | Link to this
Frustrated - YAY, we are back to abortion and gay marriage…
LOL! Here’s some food for thought - France created a civil unions law for gays but did not designate gender (one assumes so that you woulnd’t have the issue of ‘but it doesn’t SAY that lesbians can marry too…’) and now about a third of straight couples getting married in France opt for civil unions because they are easier to get out of.
“…it is terribly humorous and ironic that the French created civil unions to protect the institution of marriage…and now civil unions are undermining marriage because people are opting for them instead of marriage. Talk about the law of unintended consequences. So possibly the lesson for our country is that the best way to protect the institution of marriage is not to deny people marriage by creating a separate but equal system, but to allow gays to marry.” - Don George at ‘Citizen Crain’ blog
and another tidbit - evidently the ‘religious right’ has decided that they don’t want to be called that anymore. Bauer et al are saying that the term is viewed as too hard-edged and politically intolerant by so many people that NOBODY wants to be identified as such anymore. - coloradoindependent.com/21587/religious-right-seeks-kinder-gentler-moniker
By The Other jack
February 17, 2009 10:38 AM | Link to this
Frustrated
I wasn’t even allowed to go to my ex’s shower when she was pregnant with my oldest. She didn’t want a shower for my daughter even though they were 5 years apart. She was weird about that kind of thing.
But I think USinUK’s idea about the Miss Manners book is perfect. You can wrap it up really nice and just plaster a sly little grin on youir face while she is opening it.
Perfect.
By Gandalf, the White!
February 17, 2009 10:39 AM | Link to this
Gandy Loves JOAN JETT..and I don’t care about her range so zip it!
By USinUK
February 17, 2009 10:46 AM | Link to this
TOJ -
“you did leave out Billy Holiday” - only because I limited it to the last 50 years … (otherwise, I was worried that I would STILL be working on my list!)
Patsy Cline - EXCELLENT CALL!!! my god, “sweet dreams” just makes you cry.
Nora Jones - meh. I like her, but up in my Top 10?? nope.
KD Lang - check out Absolute Torch and Twang (earlyearlyearly KD) and her duo album with Tony Bennet and you’ll get a sense of her range and her strengths. I’d maim for her voice.
Diana Krall - a voice all velvet and smoke - she could seduce the collar off a priest with that voice!
Dionne Warwick - again, meh. she’s good but she always seemed too restrained to me - although she was MADE for Burt Bachrach!
Young singers today: Duffy has some mad-mad potential (Warwick Avenue is just amazing) and if you haven’t heard Adele, her voice will blow your doors off. I like Gabriella Cilmi but I think Estelle is WAY overrated.
By USinUK
February 17, 2009 10:48 AM | Link to this
Mara -
“evidently the ‘religious right’ has decided that they don’t want to be called that anymore. Bauer et al are saying that the term is viewed as too hard-edged and politically intolerant by so many people that NOBODY wants to be identified as such anymore”
Moral Majority Redux
By The Other jack
February 17, 2009 10:52 AM | Link to this
USinUk
I don’t want to scare you, but you are in total agreement with Ann Coulter. She has a section in her newest book about welfare moms. Very interesting reading. Clinton’s welfare reform actually stemmed the tide but Coulter claims that the Republican Congress under Bush enacted some pretty big loop holes that started the trend up again and this new stimulus package will probably open the flood gates again. It will relieve the states from some of the responsibility so once again, spitting out children will once again become a money making business. It will probably cut down on abortions, but it ain’t much better to bring unwanted kids into a world where they will be abused and neglected.
By Frustrated
February 17, 2009 10:55 AM | Link to this
Ok…….I can’t believe I am going to start this up…..
But on the topic of the doctor of the IVF…and I guess I am playing the devil’s advocate here..
If the women know how many he is using, and they are ok with it, why should anyone be upset about it? They made the “choice” to allow him to do the procedure.
To me, this is just the opposite of chosing to have an abortion. Shouldn’t people who are “Pro-choice” on abortion be “pro-coice” on having as many kids as you want?
I know the money part with come up, so I will just throw this out there…and I am looking for the link on this, I will post it asap…But I read where in 2009 alone, Medi-Cal (California’s healthcare program) is paying out $52 million in abortions. California tax payers are footing the medi-cal bill, and with the new stimulus package, a big $$$$ is going to California, which in turn would mean that everyone is paying for the abortions. So it really wouldn’t be any different for the taxpayers to help pay and support the octuplets on welfare…would it???
By USinUK
February 17, 2009 11:01 AM | Link to this
TOJ -
“She has a section in her newest book about welfare moms. Very interesting reading.”
in what way am I in agreement about welfare moms? she blames SINGLE mothers for everything from mass murder down to people who double-park in her new book. I haven’t said a thing about either single moms or welfare moms.
By The Other jack
February 17, 2009 11:11 AM | Link to this
USinUK
I had the same problem holding down the number of singers. A software company that made a product that enhanced old recordings used some of Holiday’s songs as their demo and I was just trying to find it but I couldn’t. it is an amazing demo, and what a shame that so few people are still alive that actually heard that voice.
Just as I hit the post button, I thought of Diana Krall. Of course she and Nora Jones hold a special place in my heart because they are both excellent piano players.
Burt Bachrach was a musical monster. Warwick was definitely his singer, but she was a lot of skill and not a lot of style. In my senior year in High School, I wrote an arrangement of South American Getaway for my high school band’s half time show. 6/8 time. It was a challenge. Talking about Bachrach in 2009 is like looking throiugh an old magazine and seeing car ads. The NEW CHEVY CITATION, doesn’t mean much now, but it was a big deal back then.
I’ll check out KD Lang. If she is with Tony, she better be singing her butt off. That’s how Diana Krall learned the ropes.
As far as vocal stylist, I am crazy about Bebel Gilberto. That voice is soooo friggin’ sexy. I used to have some of her tunes on my ipod, but i use that in the car and I don’t want to be listening to that before I go into a meeting. nuff said.
By Mara
February 17, 2009 11:19 AM | Link to this
Helen Philpot is revueing Coulter’s new book chapter by chapter over at ‘Margaret and Helen’…
USinUK - regarding women in music; love me some Billie! And Dinah Washington is pretty good too. Karen Carpenter, Heart, Pat Benetar, ABBA (though technically they’re a mixed ensemble), Dolores O’Riordan, Enya, and the ladies from Celtic Woman. Taylor Swift, Katy Perry, and Sara Bareilles have taken my fancy lately.
By American Woman
February 17, 2009 11:20 AM | Link to this
Whoa… way to tank your cred on a subject — cite Coulter! PUH-leeeeze. That woman admits to basically hating everybody, so why on earth would anyone care about her OPINION, supported by manipulated and cherry-picked statistics, enhanced by what she thinks is wit?
The majority of people on welfare are moms and children, granted. (“Those lazy good for nothing eight year olds should get JOBS!”)BECAUSE THE FATHERS — HUSBANDS — ABANDONDED THEIR RESPONSIBILITIES, not because women want to keep getting pregnant to get an extra $50 in a welfare check. The assumption that the “welfare queen” stereotype is the norm is as ridiculous is saying that ALL fertility specialists cram 7 or 9 embryos into any and every unmarried, unemployed woman who will have them. Yeah, it happens, but it’s not the norm, and not the reason for the downfall of civilization.
By The Other jack
February 17, 2009 11:21 AM | Link to this
USinUK
I grew up on fifth street. It was nice. Fourth street was the dirt road beside the railroad tracks. That did two things. It made some of my best friends Black kids and it exposed me to the Felty Family. (They were White)
The Felty family was a mother and father who had two kids, a brother and sister that had become adults. The daughter was spitting out a child every ten months and of course the daddy was her brother. Yes, you read that correctly. She was having children with her brother.
Of course all the kids, if they lived were horribly deformed or if they were lucky, they were just very down syndrome. The old woman used to brag to my Grandmother about how much more money they would be getting when little Jannie would drop her latest.
That and a re-occuring theme when I worked in TV news which is another story made me a life long Republican. So me and Ann, on that subject? Right on.
By The Other jack
February 17, 2009 11:25 AM | Link to this
Frustrated
Bill O’Rielly has been railing against this women with the welfare litter and he said last night that he hadn’t received a single complaint from liberals and has been given hell by pro-lifers because of his stance.
By USinUK
February 17, 2009 11:30 AM | Link to this
Frustrated -
“If the women know how many he is using, and they are ok with it, why should anyone be upset about it? They made the “choice” to allow him to do the procedure. To me, this is just the opposite of chosing to have an abortion. Shouldn’t people who are “Pro-choice” on abortion be “pro-coice” on having as many kids as you want?”
Doctors are supposed to 1) abide by ethical guidelines and 2) act in the best interest of their clients. Implanting 8 embryos does neither - it puts the woman’s health at risk, primarily (you remember your high blood pressure and the effects of what carrying 1 fetus did to you - imagine carrying a LITTER - humans aren’t built for that number). It also puts the newborns at risk as rarely are multiple births carried full-term.
Lastly, the more embryos you implant, the greater the likelihood that you will put parents in a position where they have to selectively abort - which, when they WANT to have a family in the first place, puts an incredible emotional strain on the mother and/or couple.
your take on “choice” - as far as the # of children you have - sure, knock yourself out - join the Duggar “Full Quivver” cult - treat your uterus like a clown car. that’s your choice. However - all at once??? we’re people not puppies.
By Mara
February 17, 2009 11:31 AM | Link to this
Frustrated - “If the women know how many he is using, and they are ok with it, why should anyone be upset about it? They made the “choice” to allow him to do the procedure.”
you are absolutely right. As a pro-choicer, I absolutely agree with you. She should have the right to have as many children as she likes. And I support her right to do so…but I don’t think that’s the issue for most people. I think most of us are apalled NOT because she wanted so many children, but because WE are going to end up supporting them.
I don’t think the outcry would have been anything like what it’s become if she had the means to care for them herself.
By AW
February 17, 2009 11:34 AM | Link to this
Poor men… It’s not their fault. Having their seeds STOLEN from them for indecent, fiscally irresponsible purposes. Tsk tsk. Somebody notify the sheriff.
By The Other jack
February 17, 2009 11:37 AM | Link to this
American Woman
No, it’s not the norm for welfare mothers to be spitting out eight at a time. It usually takes them six years to have eight kids. And it is a hell of a lot more than 50 bucks a month addition to welfare when they have the next baby. If the baby has problems, they can be getting $1,000 more a month per child.
Crime here is going crazy. Up 148% over last year which was up 137%. Almost all of the criminals that are caught are from the two Great Society ghettos near Grant Park called Trestle Tree. That ghetto has not one married mother and almost every woman in that ghetto stays pregnant. A local OB/GYN donates one Saturday a month and the line goes around the block and has the entire six years I have lived here.
A lot of people like to twist the numbers to make it seem OK, but I live in the middle of a neighborhood that lives in constant fear of the children of the open welfare system. Pardon me for not sharing your point of view.
By USinUK
February 17, 2009 11:47 AM | Link to this
TOJ -
Burt Bachrach - if you’ve never heard his album with Elvis Costello - RUN, do not walk, to get a copy. it’s fantastic! (yes, I know, I do go on about Elvis - but, really, check out the album) Also, google around and see if you can find the reviews of when Burt played The Royal Albert Hall a few months ago - talk about wowing the audience!!
“I’ll check out KD Lang. If she is with Tony, she better be singing her butt off. That’s how Diana Krall learned the ropes.” I think you’ll be well impressed. seriously -
… now, as for your judging ALL women who receive welfare based on the Felty family … wow … that’s just … well, it speaks volumes about why you DON’T use examples as statistics.
unless you think that ALL women on welfare are carrying their brother’s children. and live in a shack on a dirt road. and have a mama that pimps them out for gummint money.
Mara -
Dolores O’Riordan - woowoo!! fantastic call!! I loved the Cranberries
And, while we’re on the subject of butt-kicking wimmen - the woman who used to front Garbage, Shirley Manson, has a MASSIVE voice!
By The Other jack
February 17, 2009 12:15 PM | Link to this
USinUK
I’ve heard exerts of the Costello / Bachrach album. I’ll download it this afternoon. My Big Mac is rendering all day and that is my i-tunes computer. I’ve never seen Bachrach in concert, but I’m sure it is unreal.
I try not to judge all welfare woman based on the Felties, but look at my post to American Woman. It is a horrible situation and with the new administration, I can’t see it getting any better.
Welfare (The Great Society) was a system that was set up to 1) Secure a voting block and 2) to keep Southern schools segregated. It certainly worked but it was bankrupting our country until Clinton working with a Republican Congress fixed the problem. (Or at least came close) The problem (and the crux of my news story) is that the system was set up to prevent the escape of the welfare system. Once you are in, it is almost impossible to get out and if you have a child, you are there forever.
Of course after fixing the problem, the democrats lost the next two elections, so you can bet that the system that secured that voting block will not be destroyed again. It will be bigger and stronger and the chances of getting out of the system will be reduced to NONE.
I know that some people need help. I know that the safety net is necessary, but this is an entirely different thing. This is huge government apartment complexes that have none or very few married mothers that are having anywhere from 4 to 12 children, each. i.e., the welfare system is growing in those areas at a rate of an average of 800% per generation. And many times, the generations start at the age of 12 or 13.
That’s great for the Democratic voting block, not so great for tax payers.
And of course that 800% will produce a few good scholars and a few people contributing to society, but the damage that same block will do in the need for crime prevention, the need for drug abuse programs and the need for stopping domestic violence wil continue to add to my neighborhood’s problems and the country’s problems.
We will ALL pay for that voting block.
By Bruno
February 17, 2009 12:22 PM | Link to this
Well, I guess the topic of the week is officially dead—not that it ever had much life to begin with.
As for lady singers, I’ll second the nomination of both KD Lang and Nora Jones. Nora floored me a few years ago when she started singing country songs—she’s awesome!! (Of course, being the daughter of Ravi Shankar probably gave her some good musical genes).
A nod to Gandalf for the Joan Jett nomination. I hope you’re not forgetting Ann Wilson of Heart—she has some awesome pipes. Grace Slick in her prime was a powerhouse as well. And who can forget Janis Joplin? Come on, come on, and take it, take another piece of my heart now, baby….
By American Woman
February 17, 2009 12:25 PM | Link to this
“I live in the middle of a neighborhood that lives in constant fear of the children of the open welfare system. Pardon me for not sharing your point of view.”
Dude…. if you lived by a swamp in Florida, you’d think alligators were a normal, common, everyday hazard. That doesn’t mean that every neighborhood in America is overrun by alligators, or that it’s the norm.
I don’t disagree that the culture of fatherless children and state-dependent mothers (a) exists, and (b) is an appalling way for generations to develop and carry on. I don’t think anyone disagrees. It’s my feeling, though, that addressing both causes and symptoms of this issue and the resulting problems, is complicted by factors that are not as benevolent as the common wish for a society without these problems: selfishness (not MY dime!), prejudice, misogyny, and intense, politics-based hatred for people who didn’t do things the way you did. It’s a buyer’s market. Please consider relocating to a neighborhood where people look and thinks like you. HATE THY NEIGHBOR is a dreadful way to go through life. Look it up!
My MAIN problem with this ongoing blah blah blah welfare queen single mother blah blah blah ongoing WHINE, is that I hardly ever hear anyone blame the men. It’s always the b!tch’s fault, isn’t it? And beyond that, it’s the Democrats’ fault. (I mean, the nerve of wanting to assure children eat or advocating free condoms and some basic education to perpetually aroused high-schoolers!)
Since this is a “women’s” blog, why don’t we dedicate a day to expound on all the problems MEN cause? Men men men men! Unrestrained peters! Tricked out of their seed by lazy, evil women, (because we all know having eight kids is tantamount to doing NOTHING all day!) “Condom? I hate wearing those!” Uh-huh…. Guys, raise your hand if you never balked or pulled it off halfway through. I dare ya.
By Bruno
February 17, 2009 12:27 PM | Link to this
Bill O’Rielly has been railing against this women with the welfare litter and he said last night that he hadn’t received a single complaint from liberals and has been given hell by pro-lifers because of his stance.
I caught a few minutes of Bill last night—he seems to be mellowing with age. For whatever reason, he and Whoopi Goldberg make a great team. Whoopi is definitely the real deal, an extremely brilliant woman.
By American Woman
February 17, 2009 12:31 PM | Link to this
Shirley Manson!!!! Yay! Joan Jett too, in her own unapologetic way. Yes, Courtney Love is batpoop crazy, but she’s a terrific songwriter and totally rocked it with the Celebrity Skin CD. (No way she killed Kurt. She couldn’t have written those songs if she had. Those are not “I killed him and got away with it” songs.)
By Bruno
February 17, 2009 12:47 PM | Link to this
why don’t we dedicate a day to expound on all the problems MEN cause? Men men men men!
That seems to be the only topic you and lozen ever want to discuss. Thank God the newer lady posters (USinUK, Gale, Frustrated) aren’t as bitter as you two.
By Gandalf, the White!
February 17, 2009 12:49 PM | Link to this
AW unless it’s rape, welfare mothers are at least 50% of the problem. Taught how to have sex in school, not why or how to decide if they should. Then they get it wrong because, well they are horny teen agers given permission by the state to have sex.
By Gandalf, the White!
February 17, 2009 12:56 PM | Link to this
Being as this topic sucked at inception and died quickly, let finish Gale’s game from last week…What House would you be in at Hogwarts?
By Gandalf, the White!
February 17, 2009 1:00 PM | Link to this
Men screw anything or body that will allow them to have access. ANYTHING!
By Bruno
February 17, 2009 1:07 PM | Link to this
Speaking of the “Blame Game”, USinUK, did you catch the Time Mag article entitled “25 People To Blame For The Financial Crisis”?? It is a rogue’s gallery of all the people you love to hate:
www. time.com/time/specials/packages/0,28757,1877351,00.html
Of course, Bill Clinton was Johnny-on-the-spot yesterday on the Today show to claim that HE had nothing to do with the crisis, that it was all Bush’s fault. From the article:
“President Clinton’s tenure was characterized by economic prosperity and financial deregulation, which in many ways set the stage for the excesses of recent years. Among his biggest strokes of free-wheeling capitalism was the Gramm-Leach-Bliley Act, which repealed the Glass-Steagall Act, a cornerstone of Depression-era regulation. He also signed the Commodity Futures Modernization Act, which exempted credit-default swaps from regulation. In 1995 Clinton loosened housing rules by rewriting the Community Reinvestment Act, which put added pressure on banks to lend in low-income neighborhoods. It is the subject of heated political and scholarly debate whether any of these moves are to blame for our troubles, but they certainly played a role in creating a permissive lending environment.”
By Mara
February 17, 2009 1:16 PM | Link to this
Gandy - “let finish Gale’s game from last week”
Ravenclaw.
By Gandalf, the White!
February 17, 2009 1:16 PM | Link to this
It must be Reagan’s fault, all of it! Dems can do no harm, they are like doctors of medicine!
By Gandalf, the White!
February 17, 2009 1:23 PM | Link to this
Thanks Mara! GRIFFENDOR!
By Bruno
February 17, 2009 1:24 PM | Link to this
One unintended consequence of the Commodity Futures Modernization Act was the spike in gas prices last summer. At the peak of the petroleum futures trading, 27 barrels of oil were being traded for every barrel delivered, such that the price per barrel had nothing to do with actual consumer supply-and-demand, and everything to do with speculation by the futures traders. A lot of folks here blamed the oil companies, but in the end, it wasn’t them that were doing the gouging.
By USinUK
February 17, 2009 1:29 PM | Link to this
Bruno -
“Speaking of the “Blame Game”, USinUK, did you catch the Time Mag article entitled “25 People To Blame For The Financial Crisis”?? It is a rogue’s gallery of all the people you love to hate”
just PLEASE tell me that Alan Greenspan was at LEAST in the top 3
By USinUK
February 17, 2009 1:31 PM | Link to this
heading home - too tired - chat wit yaz manananana
By Bruno
February 17, 2009 1:33 PM | Link to this
just PLEASE tell me that Alan Greenspan was at LEAST in the top 3
LOL!!!!!!!!!!!
Take a quick gander at the article, you’l love it.
By The Other jack
February 17, 2009 1:37 PM | Link to this
American Woman
I blame it on the Democrats. It was their system that designed the Great Society, one of the most horrible things to happen to, not only our country, but it set back the advancement of African Americans for 40 years. It may have done some good in a very few states where few blacks lived, but in any area (99% ran by democrats) both north and south where there was a very large Black voting block, the statistics showed a massive decline in the general welfare of the Black demographic.
I don’t think anyone can argue that the unwed birth rates among black teenagers have been and still is skyrocketing. but think about this:
A great majority of the Black demographic are and have been advancing. They are making huge inroads into the more prosperous aspects of our society, and that is not just government jobs. Non-affirmative action private businesses rarely have a problem hiring anyone of any color and Black people as a whole are thriving. But yet the teen pregnancy numbers are still off the charts and seem to be getting worse every statistical period.
So what does this tell us? Pregnant teens rarely achieve a great deal in their lives. Yes, there are exceptions, but it is rare. So if Blacks are becoming more and more successful, who is getting pregnant?
Could it be that the ghetto Moms are getting pregnant at such an unbelievable rate that it is enough to skew the numbers as badly as they appear to be? I see it every day so yes, I tend to believe that yes, that is what is happening. But maybe you believe that it isn’t a real problem. I’ve done a lot of work for Spellman and I have never seen a pregnant Black woman on campus. There may be some, but I have never seen any.
You are going to believe what you want, but unless you can offer a ghost of a reason why that Black demographic is becoming more and more pregnant while that same demographic is becoming more and more successful, I’ll stick to believing that it is a crisis and reducing the effects of welfare reform, which the stimulus plan clearly does cannot be a good thing.
Now as far as woman (girls) getting all the blame, the discussion so far has been about pregnant Moms. It is really hard to find a pregnant Dad. The mechanics just don’t work. But no one is forgetting that it does take two and that same Great Society culture does, in fact make it much more profitable to have babies out of wedlock. The men are definitely part of the problem, but all those smart women at Spellman who aren’t pregnant have the same equipment as the welfare Moms. And they are almost always more attractive and of course that makes them more likely to attract a man with the rest of the necessary equipment.
So what is the difference? Both are from the same racial demographic. Many are from the same socio-economic demographic. So why are ghetto Moms constantly pregnant and the vast majority of Spellman woman are not? It all boils down to the big word: Choice. I’m pretty sure that the pregnant women down at Trestle Tree know what a condom is. They can easily get free contraceptives so if their boyfriend doesn’t like the raincoat, they can get the pill. i.e. the disadvantage of their socio-economic situation does not apply to whether or not they can prevent their own pregnancies. I think that they are constantly pregnant because they are rewarded economically for having children. I’m sure you have other ideas, but that is what I believe.
By Bruno
February 17, 2009 1:38 PM | Link to this
I hope that it doesn’t disappoint you too much, USinUK, but the folks who voted on who was most to blame put Greenspan at #17 out of 25. The most culpable person according to the polling was Phil Gramm.
By The Other jack
February 17, 2009 1:49 PM | Link to this
American Woman
HATE THY NEIGHBOR is a dreadful way to go through life. Look it up!
You need to learn the difference between hating your neighbors and fearing your neighbors. I love my neighbors and it breaks my heart when their possessions are stolen (if they are lucky) or they are shot and killed by the spawn of a society that YOUR party created.
it is always very hard to carry on a civil conversation with someone as bitter as you.
By Bruno
February 17, 2009 1:49 PM | Link to this
Guys, raise your hand if you never balked or pulled it off halfway through. I dare ya.
No condoms for Bruno. I’d rather screw a Glad trash bag.
By Mara
February 17, 2009 1:51 PM | Link to this
Bruno - The most culpable person according to the polling was Phil Gramm.
What?! The high priest of deregulation himself? You don’t say…
LOL!
By American Mommy
February 17, 2009 1:51 PM | Link to this
Bruno, there there. Poor baby. Mean, hateful, bitter women everywhere! Uh-huh. Did you skip the part where the men came here to the women’s blog and complained about the problems women cause with their doggoned lazy, selfish, non-income-earning reproductive urges? I know… Women must be so bitter to not think you’re just the bees knees. Poor Bruno in a world of bitter women.
I withdraw my suggestion to discuss the problems MEN cause. After all, the men here blame the women, so who are WE to argue? You win! Now dry your tears and go have a juice box and a cookie.
By Frustrated
February 17, 2009 1:55 PM | Link to this
“Since this is a “women’s” blog, why don’t we dedicate a day to expound on all the problems MEN cause? Men men men men! Unrestrained peters! Tricked out of their seed by lazy, evil women, (because we all know having eight kids is tantamount to doing NOTHING all day!) “Condom? I hate wearing those!” Uh-huh…. Guys, raise your hand if you never balked or pulled it off halfway through. I dare ya.”
Ok, here I go…..
IMHO, the burden of worry (about pregnancy) falls mainly on the girl. She is the only one who can get pregnant, therefore, should be wise in her decision making….including making sure she/he is wearing protection, making the right decision on who/when she opens up to….. Of course the best decision would be your spouse, but I understand that the “norm” is not waiting anymore.
I am not saying the guy shouldn’t own up if something were to happen…but how mature can one guy be before he reaches the age of 25 (No offense gents)..and sometimes that is a stretch..That doesn’t give him a free pass to move on, but they can’t sympathize with the fear that pregnancy brings. If every guy thought about the pain of shoving a watermelon through their pee-holes, well, maybe things would be differently…but it doesn’t work like that. We have monthly reminders to let us know that yes, we CAN have a baby…..All that they see is something that looks like a booger floating down the shower drain….
We are women….we will always carry the responsibility first!!! You just have to deal with it and close your legs.
And maybe it is the bitterness in your posts, but I picture you sleeping with a random guy, getting pregnant and pointing your finger at the guy yelling “YOU DID THIS TO ME!!!!”…when in reality, you made the first move by allowing him in the door!
By Bruno
February 17, 2009 1:55 PM | Link to this
They can easily get free contraceptives so if their boyfriend doesn’t like the raincoat, they can get the pill. i.e. the disadvantage of their socio-economic situation does not apply to whether or not they can prevent their own pregnancies. I think that they are constantly pregnant because they are rewarded economically for having children. I’m sure you have other ideas, but that is what I believe.
As I’ve mentioned to you before, TOJ, I worked in the pits of East Atlanta for many years, so have a pretty good handle on the mindset of the folks in your area. Yes, birth control is free and readily available, including an implant in the arm which prevents pregnancy for 3 months or more. There is no particular financial advantage to having kids; I think it’s for a different reason that so many young black girls get pregnant: It gives their lives meaning which otherwise wouldn’t be there.
By Bruno
February 17, 2009 1:58 PM | Link to this
To tell you how tough things are for me lately, Tom from myspace.com just wrote to me and said that he no longer wanted to be my friend. ; > {
By The Other jack
February 17, 2009 1:59 PM | Link to this
If anyone likes wine, I found a great Chenin Blanc called Indaba. The bottle I got was a 2005 and it’s an eight dollar bottle of wine. It’s just dry enough and the flavor is great especially with seafood. It also comes in a very nice, impressive bottle.
It is a South African wine. So how they can create a bottle, ship it around the world and sell it at retail for eight bucks is beyond me.
By The Other jack
February 17, 2009 2:04 PM | Link to this
Bruno
See. It’s hard not to be sucked into the negativity.
By Bruno
February 17, 2009 2:06 PM | Link to this
Now dry your tears and go have a juice box and a cookie.
Big hug and a kiss to you, too, kimberly.
xxxxxxoooooooooo
By Bruno
February 17, 2009 2:10 PM | Link to this
And maybe it is the bitterness in your posts, but I picture you sleeping with a random guy, getting pregnant and pointing your finger at the guy yelling “YOU DID THIS TO ME!!!!”…when in reality, you made the first move by allowing him in the door!
WTG, Faithful!!! I knew that I could count on you!!!
(Does anyone else besides me appreciate a good cat fight?)
By American Woman
February 17, 2009 2:10 PM | Link to this
TOJ, I can’t answer your questions. I’m white, educated, got myself knocked up, (oops!) and kept the kid. Maybe I’m black on the inside? Never took any type of public assistance, but then again, I was “lucky” the guy didn’t abandon me completely. (He sends checks and participates.) The difference between me and the women you describe is THE MAN WHO TOOK RESPONSIBILITY FOR HIS PROGENY. And yes, I love hearing how “lucky” I am, from all the white people I know whose lawfully-wedded spouses bailed on supporting their own children.
Tell me again how you’re always writing to your legislators for stronger child support laws?
By Bruno
February 17, 2009 2:14 PM | Link to this
See. It’s hard not to be sucked into the negativity.
Well, think of the blog as good life practice for you, then, TOJ.
All kidding aside, I think that AW is a dear person and I root for her success and happiness.
By The Other jack
February 17, 2009 2:20 PM | Link to this
Bruno
I agree that they feel their lives become important by having a child, but 10-12 children? Hell, even three or four. But you are wrong about the economic incentives. Their SSI goes up and their rate of food stamps goes up a great deal. So if they have a healthy child, their rate might increase by say, $300 bucks a month. Multiply that by the number of children, plus what the Mom is getting and they are basically on retainer for the democratic party.
Now throw in free rent so that the largest bill most of us have is gone. No car, no insurance, no payments. So basically, the benefits can range from $700/month to $3,500/month in spending money. Plus of course Medicade and all the programs to take care of those kids.
I go to the ghetto Kroger on Moreland and it is very common to be behind a Mom with a hord of children with two carts filled to the brim with steaks, name brand everything and of course it is all paid for with that Food Stamp card.
That’s sort of hard to swallow when I am between checks and have raided my poker change to buy a loaf of bread and a gallon of milk.
By AW
February 17, 2009 2:27 PM | Link to this
Not interested in a cat fight, but I note that one reason misogynistic trends continue to thrive in an otherwise enlightened 21st-century America is that women still, after all these years, will turn on other women to gain favor with men, faster than you can say “Got an extra tampon?” The more things change, the more they stay the same. It all goes back to Eve, b!tch. Adam was tricked! Preacher says say Amen. Amen. Now gitcher big caboose back in that kitchen and stop acting like you know sumpthin!
By The Other jack
February 17, 2009 2:35 PM | Link to this
American Woman
You are Black on the inside? That’s over the top. That was the demographic that I was discussing but in no way was I trying to say that the problem is all in the Black demographic.
It doesn’t matter how civil anyone is with you. You seem to be looking at each post as an excuse to point your finger and scream at someone. I join Bruno in wishing you all the happiness in the world.
By Bruno
February 17, 2009 2:35 PM | Link to this
Not interested in a cat fight, but I note that one reason misogynistic trends continue to thrive in an otherwise enlightened 21st-century America is that women still, after all these years, will turn on other women to gain favor with men
And men won’t turn on each other to gain favor with women???? I almost got killed in a bar several years ago for mistakenly flirting with some other guy’s GF.
It sounds like you are having somewhat of a sour day, AW. I know that you hate me, but I’m beaming all the good thoughts that I can your way. You are a beautiful person.
By American Woman
February 17, 2009 2:54 PM | Link to this
TOJ, LET US BE CLEAR IN THIS: I don’t think “being black on the inside” is an insult. Actually, in many ways I identify with my black sisters more so than the stick-up-their-butt white suburban women I know. Black women won’t compliment me to my face and trash me behind my back, they’ll tell to my face if the outfit doesn’t match, or if I’m being stupid over a man, or if I need to get over myself and take care of business. They understand holding our heads high while others point the fat finger of judgement or look down their snooty noses. Of all the people I know, the BLACK WOMEN I know are among the bravest, strongest, hard-working, most self-sufficient, yet still generous, REAL people I’ve ever had the pleasure of living and working along side of.
I wasn’t being un-civil, but I’ll reiterate that maybe YOU just need to move to a new neighborhood, if your daily life is beset with fear and loathing of the folks with whom you share your corner of the planet.
By Gandalf, the White!
February 17, 2009 2:56 PM | Link to this
Public schools should teach girls Back Door action to prevent them from becoming with child! AW would that fix the problem? I had a GF back in the day that used this technigue and it was kinky and wild! Teach your children well! Doggie style with a brown eye!
By The Other jack
February 17, 2009 2:56 PM | Link to this
Bruno
And men won’t turn on each other to gain favor with women???? I almost got killed in a bar several years ago for mistakenly flirting with some other guy’s GF.
LOL. You’ve gone several years since that happened? You must not get out much.
AW seems like that woman who will wear a very low cut top and the yell at men for looking at her cleavage.
I get so tired of this. I adore women. We love lesbian porn because we just love to look at women. We are told our entire lives that women are just looking for a nice guy. That is so much horse sh1t. I have known so many woman that their partner will screw around on them, hit them, treat them like crap and the woman will die for that guy. But the guy that treats their lady like a queen will be lucky if she sticks around for more than a month. How many guys do you know that have that same story?
I had a neighbor that said that he made a point of telling his wife that he loves her once a year. That way she appreciates it more. She was so great and he treated her like crap. Yelled at her and was always talking her down. i haven’t seen them in years but I’ll bet anything that they are still together.
By AW
February 17, 2009 3:07 PM | Link to this
Bruno, 86 the feigned personal interest, already!! Eww! NOT having a “sour day,” I’m just blogging. Attempting to share enlightenment, if you will. Why is that a problem for you? The absense of “tra la la!” from my posts does not mean I am the embittered, miserable hag YOU seem to wish so desperately that I were. I just noted, (correctly it seems) that any discussion about welfare or irresponsible reproduction always comes down to “woman’s fault!” with a disproportionate emphasis, if any, on the role of men as responsible caretakers and guardians of ensuing generations. This discussion spawned racial profiling and a fundamentalist agreement that the alleged invicible power to open or close ones legs at will is at the root of all society’s ills. Yawn! Again, the more things change, the more they stay the same.
Bored now.
By Bruno
February 17, 2009 3:07 PM | Link to this
Of all the people I know, the BLACK WOMEN I know are among the bravest, strongest, hard-working, most self-sufficient, yet still generous, REAL people I’ve ever had the pleasure of living and working along side of.
You forgot to add “great in bed”. Well, maybe that’s a guy thing.
Just for you, AW, I’m going to play Emerson, Lake, and Palmer’s “From The Beginning”:
There might have been things I missed But dont be unkind It dont mean Im blind Perhaps theres a thing or two
I think of lying in bed I shouldnt have said But there it is
Maybe I might have changed And not been so cruel Not been such a fool Whatever was done is done I just cant recall It doesnt matter at all
You see its all clear You were meant to be here From the beginning
By The Other jack
February 17, 2009 3:08 PM | Link to this
AW
I don’t think “being black on the inside” is an insult.
Oh bullsh1t. You equated being Black on the inside with being an unmarried pregnant woman. You also said that I hate my neighbors and now you are saying that I loath them. That may be civil to you, but if that is your idea of civility, then you have some real problems.
By The Other jack
February 17, 2009 3:12 PM | Link to this
The D.O.W. is at -243 for the day.
I’m not sure the country can survive all this economic stimulus.
By Bruno
February 17, 2009 3:13 PM | Link to this
How many guys do you know that have that same story?
You know it, bro. Somehow I got lucky with my latest GF. Even though she is from Nigeria, she doesn’t want to date black men due to the poor treatment that they commonly dish out.
By The Other jack
February 17, 2009 3:16 PM | Link to this
Bruno
ELP. Best concert ever. Jacksonville, early 70s. Lucky Man was soooo good.
By Bruno
February 17, 2009 3:20 PM | Link to this
NOT having a “sour day
Well, I’d hate to see you on a bad day, then.
Seriously, you can’t see the bitterness which seems to permeate 90% of your blogs?? You must be the least self-aware person I’ve ever met, then.
Bruno, 86 the feigned personal interest, already!!
Sorry, but I like you. I hope that isn’t a crime.
By Frustrated
February 17, 2009 3:20 PM | Link to this
AW-
I love how you think I am turning on “my sistas” to gain favor with men. I am married, have a child of my own….I don’t need approval ratings from other gentlemen.
But, unlike you, I see how people make choices. And although they make the choice, you feel as though they shouldn’t take the fall. I am sorry, I admit my wrongs, I deal with my choices (good or bad). I don’t blame it on someone else, I don’t scream EQUALITY at the top of my lungs because guys don’t carry the burden of having children. The world isn’t fair, dear.
And as polite as I have tried to be on this post, even with people whom I don’t see eye to eye with on many topics (which tends to be most everyone on occassion) I have no problem telling you to get over yourself.
I am not looking for a cat fight either, but every time I read your post I want to reach through the computer and slap the #$%^& out of you. You raise all $%^& about equalilty this, equality that….the bottom line is there will NEVER be equality across the board. E-V-E-R…. So instead of pulling up your whipping post for the next round, how about make progress and have a civilized debate for once and stop pointing fingers at everyone else. Don’t sit on your high horse and degrade people who make a stand for themselves and their beliefs..
So I think the women have the most of the burden, sorry you don’t see it that way….I am a woman, I fit that description…and I hate that you see it as I turned my back on you. I am not going to stand up for you just because you have a pair of boobs and a vajayjay….I don’t work like that. It seems like you are the fake one if your first stance is to agree with the woman just because she is a woman.
What about EQUALITY…..men can’t be right too? They don’t get the same treatment from you as us ladies?? Oh, well, for crying out loud….shove it up your hole.
Now, I have to go walk outside….you have totally raised my blood pressure to dangerous levels.
By The Other jack
February 17, 2009 3:26 PM | Link to this
Bruno
Common story. Why do you think I dated the woman from the Ukraine for so long? it isn’t all American women, but it sure seems a lot more common among American women. And I absolutely love Black women. The only American woman I have dated since my divorce that I really liked was Black.
The absolutely crazy thing about both foreign woman and Black women is that the better you treat them, the more they like you. I was blown away. I would go to her house and if she was in a bad mood, instead of running and hiding, I could rub her shoulders, maybe sing to her, fix her favorite meal, and low and behold, SHE WOULD WARM UP TO ME!!!!! It was total culture shock.
Nigeria. Damn. You sure get the big thumbs up from me.
By Bruno
February 17, 2009 3:26 PM | Link to this
I’m not sure the country can survive all this economic stimulus.
I’m still trying to figure out why the Dems think that we can spend our way out of debt. It didn’t work very well under Bush. I’m doing my best not to play the Chicken Little game, but my confidence in our current government is about a -243 myself.
By AW
February 17, 2009 3:28 PM | Link to this
TOJ, you take “good morning” as an attack of incivility. Geezuss. YOU are the one who brought race into the discussion of unwed mothers. YOU complain constantly about your tribulations in the neighborhood. Dude…. I was in downtown Atlanta hugging my black sisters and brothers, dancing, praying with the Rev. Lowry, and weeping tears of joy, relief, and hope on the night of November 4th. Where were you? Accuse me of being racist again, and I’ll have my dogs pop a cap in your saggy white a$$. Word. (Just kidding, violence isn’t my thing, but thanks for playing.)
By Bruno
February 17, 2009 3:35 PM | Link to this
you have totally raised my blood pressure to dangerous levels.
Please don’t get so upset, Faithful. AW has had a hard road in life, not that that gives her license to shoot her venom at everyone, but you know what I mean. You’ve made some great points today, so keep posting.
The bottom line is that because men and women are fundamentally different creatures, there will always be double-standards in our society, and for good reason. (I know, Mara, I just p** you off with that statement. Sorry.)
By American Mommy
February 17, 2009 3:35 PM | Link to this
Frustrated, what the heck are you squawking about? You don’t think I know about choices? When did I ever blame anyone else for MY choices? I never blamed anyone else for MY choices and I never asked anyone for a G—D—- thing. I just acknowledge that everyone doesn’t have the choices that I did, and again, get back to me when your married behind starts writing your legislators complaining about how poorly the child support laws are enforced in this state. I know single/divorced parents, both men AND women, who don’t get a dime, but yet you’d rather go on and on about “ooo, keep your legs closed, women!” What EV.
By Bruno
February 17, 2009 3:38 PM | Link to this
Accuse me of being racist again, and I’ll have my dogs pop a cap in your saggy white a$$. Word.
You crossed the line on that one, AW.
Don’t worry about me having any further interest in you. You’re too filled with hate for even me to deal with.
By The Other jack
February 17, 2009 3:39 PM | Link to this
Frustrated
Take very deep breaths. Close your eyes and breath very deep. Fill your lungs as full as you can get them and breath back out very slowly.
Feel all that blood draining from your tense muscles and going to your lungs where it is getting all that fresh Oxygen.
Now concentrate on the ends of your fingers and toes. Concentrate on relaxing the extrematies. Then move up your arms and legs and relax all the way to your core.
This actually works much better if you are laying on your back in a very quite place. This is called a Monk Excercise. It is actually part of a very detailed Kung Fu relaxation regimate.
.
By Bruno
February 17, 2009 3:42 PM | Link to this
Nigeria. Damn. You sure get the big thumbs up from me.
If you were able to see how sexy she is, more than your thumb would be up as well.
A little piece of unsolicited advice for you, TOJ. Don’t respond to any more of AW’s post. Please, for your own good. I’m taking that pledge myself.
By American Woman
February 17, 2009 3:52 PM | Link to this
Despite the brutal directive I just received from another woman to um.. “shove it up my hole, ” (I’m sure she meant tampon, and in a kind, sisterly way. Haha!) I shall now agree with the Other Jack at 2:56: “We are told our entire lives that women are just looking for a nice guy. That is so much horse sh1t.”
Total agreement! (fist bump) That’s as accurate as saying men are just looking for a “nice girl.” Big steaming pile of poo! Who writes these silly Hallmark cards, anyway?
In observing the married/attached around me, I see three basic groups: (a) Insecure woman submits fully to controlling D!ck who keeps her self-esteem stuffed tightly in his pocket, (b) Ball-busting aggressive female who held it for ransom snapped leash on an unsuspecting man the second he showed any interest and now makes all decisions for him, and (c) Two people seem to “click,” enjoy each other’s company, and are more entertained than irritated by the habits and annoying quirks the other. Sincere, mutual acceptance that’s independent of anyone else’s stated criteria.
By The Other jack
February 17, 2009 3:54 PM | Link to this
AW
TOJ, you take “good morning” as an attack of incivility.
Right. It’s all my problem.
By Bruno
February 17, 2009 3:56 PM | Link to this
Gotta run, take care, everyone.
By The Other jack
February 17, 2009 4:05 PM | Link to this
Bruno
Have you noted that in every post where she is really telling someone off that she always wants that person to write to the government so they can fix it?
If you were able to see how sexy she is, more than your thumb would be up as well.
Sexy is fantastic, but I guarantee that there is more than that.
Isn’t it nice to have someone who knows when you are being good to them? I am dating again and it is a real problem. A friend fixed me up with her friend and I have never been so glad to get home in my life. How many ways can a woman hate her mother, her sisters and her father. Then she started talking about her ex. At that point I was just hoping I could survive the date.
By Frustrated
February 17, 2009 4:06 PM | Link to this
AW—
I am glad that you write your legislators, I am glad that you were hugging and crying with your “black friends” on November 4th, I am glad you give to charities, I am glad you have pushed through your hard times, I am glad your baby’s daddy is there for your kid, I am glad you are such a great person, I am glad, I am glad, I am glad….
Are you done patting yourself on the back now?
Ok, well…..here is the thing…. It’s a choice….your choice, my choice, her choice, his choice, their choice, our choice, blah blah blah… So, if I made the CHOICE to open my legs, and my “lover boy” left me….and I didn’t get a dime… well guess what….. IT WAS MY CHOICE…..and I get to live (as hard as it may be) without a dime from him… If the men don’t want to pay, then they are better off not being around my child…or me. I never said he was in the right, but my fingers don’t automatically point in someone else’s direction. I would look at me first…..and examine my own faults in the situation.
Sorry you don’t see things the way I do….and I would respect you and your opinion a lot more had you not made the comment about women going against women to get high ratings from men. I argue against you because I don’t see things the way you do….period.
So sure, you are a great person doing your good deeds, but the best deeds are the ones you don’t sit and let everyone know, time and time again, that you have done.
It’s kind of like giving a present and then telling them how much it cost you….it’s rude.
Besides, how do you know that my married behind doesn’t already write my legislators???? So quick to judge me on sitting on my “big caboose” and doing nothing aren’t you????
But thanks for playing!
By American Mommy
February 17, 2009 4:10 PM | Link to this
TOJ, You’re right. I’m sorry. I should never have accused you of “hating” your neighbors just because you complain about the crime and the “welfare society” people in your neighborhood and in your grocery store, in one way or another, just about every day. I also should not have read ANYTHING whatsoever into your 8-paragraph post (1:37) about Democrats, race, and “ghetto moms.” That was very uncivil of me. Also, I deeply apologize for my repeated attempts to insert paternal responsibility into any and every discussion of “sigle moms.” I see now how wrong I am. Please forgive me.
(Cookies and juice now being served.)
By Frustrated
February 17, 2009 4:13 PM | Link to this
“Despite the brutal directive I just received from another woman to um.. “shove it up my hole, “
Oh, well, please let me be the first to apologize for the “brutal” attack….. as if “Now gitcher big caboose back in that kitchen and stop acting like you know sumpthin!”…wasn’t meant to be any kind of slap.
But again, AW is the victim here….let me grovel at your feet and you can tell me how beneath you I really am.
I apologize to all the other bloggers for my actions, my horomones got the best of me and that is not me….at ALL!!!
By The Other jack
February 17, 2009 4:16 PM | Link to this
AW
I don’t have anything against you. You took a little beating there, but I’ve taken many beatings on this blog. Looks like we are both passionate people and that is not a bad thing.
Incivility is more of a directional thing than a word thing. It is rarely the words but the direction that the conversation is heading.
I really like almost everybody here, even though I feel that some may not return the sentiment. It is really funny that we can be killing each other one day and discussing how much we like the same music the next. I guess that is part of this faceless world.
You frustrated Frustrated. She will be fine and so will you, Bruno and me.
Have a good night.
By Gandalf, the White!
February 17, 2009 4:19 PM | Link to this
Public schools should teach girls a little back door action to prevent them from becoming with child! AW would that fix the problem? I had a GF back in the day that used this technigue and it was kinky and wild! Teach your children well! Doggie style with a brown eye!
By Frustrated
February 17, 2009 4:21 PM | Link to this
TOJ, Bruno-
So back to the music posting……did Chaka Khan make the list????
I am throwing my mother a surprise birthday party this year….and I am trying to find a band to play..any suggestions? I am looking for 70s….The Marshall Tucker Band, The Band, CCR, Stevie Ray Vaughan, Allman Brothers, Eric Clapton, etcetc..you get the picture.
By The Other jack
February 17, 2009 4:36 PM | Link to this
Frustrated
I would go for a Motown act. I think that the impressions are still around Atlanta. Eddie Floyd is still in town (Knock on Wood). A lot have moved to Europe.
if you are going Pop or Rock, I would have to go with the Doobie Brothers or the Almond Brothers.
I am getting ready to meet some friends for some 5PM cocktails. I hope you have calmed down. If you have blood pressure problems, that Monk Exercise will save your life. Just lay on your back. breath as deep as you can and as slow as you can. Relax the extremities and work up to your core. it will take about 30 minutes if you do it right. Oh yea. NO MUSIC. Total quiet. That’s part of it. You will start hearing things like your own heart beating.
You have a great night.
By American Woman
February 17, 2009 4:41 PM | Link to this
That’s funny. I don’t FEEL beaten up… Was I beaten up? ARE GANDALF AND I THE ONLY POSTERS TODAY WHO AREN’T GOING BOO-HOO, stomping our feet, and turning purple in outrage and a flurry of incomprehensible hurt feelings? (G - I’m having a single malt just for you tonight, buddy. You’re gross, but at least you’re a man about it.)
Frustrated, clearly I failed to articulate that my “caboose” comment was a sarcastic quote of my neanderthal former husband denoting the archaic attitudes I am shocked to still encounter. Unlike some people on this board, I would not presume to either know, nor comment upon, the size of your actual behind, which I have never seen. I thought that simple understanding would be implied, since um… I’ve never seen you and am myself insulted when others comment on the size of one’s behind in a completely unrelated discussion…. as I’ve stated before, but obviously you did not read that. So again, not dissing your behind; sorry it sounded that way.
Also, sorry, but I feel like you validated my points more than you refuted them. Don’t take that personally, but that’s what (it looks like to me) happened. You’re entitled to your opinion and perspectives too, but… still blaming the women, still giving the men a pass. Just sayin’.
By Frustrated
February 17, 2009 4:47 PM | Link to this
Thanks TOJ,
And no, I don’t have blood pressure problems…some things just tend to get to me….
I will just blare some “Killing me softly” in the car and it will clam me down:)
By American Woman
February 17, 2009 4:50 PM | Link to this
BTW and FYI: I encourage y’all to write your legislators because: (a) otherwise they don’t know how you feel — not that they care, (b) Shaunti and Andrea really don’t have any power over public policy or state budgets, (c) I can listen but cannot determine how your tax dollars are spent or withheld, (d) caring passionately without actions is fairly meaningless, (e) only in numbers do we have any effect on our government, (f) it is our responsibility as citizens to hold our legislators accountable, (g) GLADYS KNIGHT for Governor!, and (h) I really like doing lettered and numbered lists.
By Frustrated
February 17, 2009 4:59 PM | Link to this
Aw-
Thank for clearing the air…
And don’t worry, you only validate my point about pointing fingers first. EVERY person (unless victims of crime, forced sex, etc) in this great nation has the exact same choices you do when it comes to having sex….either you open or keep ‘em closed…..it really is that simple. (for men, you keep in your pants or you pull it out…you get the drift)
And as I stated earlier, I am not saying the guy in the situation is right or gets a free pass….they both made the decision…but unfortuantely, the woman will always carry the responsibility first….unless something freaky happens and men can have babies in the future…which is a scary thought.
Again, life isn’t fair….it never has been and it never will be. It’s just one of those “known” playground rules.
Have a great night!
By USinUK
February 18, 2009 8:43 AM | Link to this
geez loueeez … I go home and the playground goes all nutty.
Frustrated - the term “spread your legs” is just crass - something I would expect from a 60+ year old redneck man, not a mother of a toddler. As a married woman, you should know that the ring on your left hand doesn’t improve the likelihood that husband will stick around any more than some random guy that you happen to date. Men leave (so do women, for that matter) - married men, men who have been with their girlfriends for 10 years, and, yes, men who have been casually dating. And it crosses all races, ethnicities and economic conditions. So, if you’re going to discuss this, 1) do it like the educated grown-up you are, not some crusty backwoods hick and 2) look around you at the reality of the situation - it’s not just “those women” that this kind of thing happens to.
TOJ - google. please. seriously. it’s your friend. the CDC’s most recent report shows that 1) unmarried birth rates are UP across the board and 2) they’re up for non-Hispanic white and non-Hispanic black teens between 3-5% and 2% for Hispanic teens. So, yes, while, overall, the black community’s economic situation has improved, the out-of-wedlock pregnancy stats for that population have risen over the last couple of years.
http:// www.cdc.gov/ nchs/data/ nvsr/nvsr57/nvsr57_07.pdf
secondly - an extra $300 per child??? talk about pulling a number out of your posterior. first of all, the amount varies from state to state, with Mississippi paying the least at $170/mo for a family of 3 and Alaska paying the most at $923 (http://www. childtrendsdatabank.org/ indicators/50AFDCTANF.cfm)
$923/mo - AT BEST. do you REALLY think that wimmen-folk are cranking out the sprogs for what is less than minimum wage?
lastly, ALL markets fell yesterday due to the ongoing poor performance of the financial sector. if you’re going to start talking economics, switch the TV from FOX to CNBC - (just not Kramer - GAH!)
and finally … Chakha Khan has STILL got it! (“IIIIIIIIIIIII’m every woman … it’s all in meeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee”) but she’s not in my Top 10. Good, definitely - Legend??? meh.
(oh, and btw TOJ - this morning, BB2 radio was playing Karen Carpenter’s version of “Mr. Postman look and see … if there’s a letter in the bag for me … Mr. Po-wo-wo-wo-wostman … a card or a letter, the sooner the better”)
By chuck
February 18, 2009 8:54 AM | Link to this
A donor’s right to privacy ends when they & their $$$$ enter the public arena, affecting public policy and the lives of the public.
So, all of those that think that this is true, would this apply to donators to say, Planned Parenthood, since they are a public non-profit that lobbies for abortion? What if people were targeting those contributors? Would you still be in favor?
Personally, I think that ALL DONATIONS should be identified as far as POLITICAL PARTIES and CANDIDATES go, but I think that when we are talking about initiatives, groups should be required to keep records, but those records should not necessarily be available to the public.
So I assume that you would also be in favor of forcing Obama to identify the millions of people who donated small amounts online for his campaign. THEN MAYBE we could go ahead and confirm that millions of those dollars came from OVERSEAS MUSLIMS. Ya’ll probably won’t be in favor of that now would you?
While we are talking about campaign contributions, why don’t we just let people donate AS MUCH as they WANT to and just give full disclosure. That would end a lot of the subterfuge that is currently going on as companies give money to their employees to donate and find other ways around the limit laws anyway.
By Lyrazel
February 18, 2009 9:02 AM | Link to this
To me its fascinating seeing the majority here abandoning their right to privacy. I am always amazed by younger folk who give out pertinent data as if nothing can ever harm them. Its the rose-colored glasses syndrome. I know those glasses crack & shatter with age when youth becomes weary of tribulations brought by their own lack of foresight or judement. I am wondering if this major agreement is for their siding with the issue of gay marriage instead of the consideration of privacy itself…
No one should be able to gather data on how you vote—and essentially this is what is happening here. Worse, is that when you are in a group you might be a responsible citizen, stalwart and true, but is everyone in the group? The lunatic fringe as well as the righteous do-gooders can be dangerous when this element gets private data. If Jon does not like how Mary donated he can come by and picket her business, and that’s ok with the majority here? What happens when Jon puts Mary’s phone number/address on-line in retaliation? That’s ok, right? Ok put on another shoe: what happens if Jon funds abortion rights and Mary publishes it—and groups come to protest at his home, frighten his children, now suddenly that is wrong for privacy must be protected? Can’t have it both ways, I am sorry.
Privacy invasion is frightening to someone who donates to many groups—I will stop donating now that I know my privacy will be in jeopardy—and send those cute boys from ACORN away with their petitions unsigned even if I agree with the cause.
By Frustrated
February 18, 2009 9:02 AM | Link to this
Goooooooooooooooooood Morning US!!
I apologize if the “keep ‘em closed” came across as some backwood hick……that is not how I intended that to come across. I understand that a lot of the women are not “those women”…..my point is that the responsibilty is the woman’s first….and I hate to be so ho-hum about the topic, but she is the the only one that can get pregnant, and when she does, she carries that baby by herself for 9 months.
By chuck
February 18, 2009 9:03 AM | Link to this
Frustrated - the term “spread your legs” is just crass - something I would expect from a 60+ year old redneck man, not a mother of a toddler.
Are you kidding me USUK? You are hardly innocent in the “CRASSNESS” area. There have been a number of VERY CRUDE remarks that have spewed from your keyboard over the past several months. Climb down off that horse dearie…it’s a bit “high”.
By USinUK
February 18, 2009 9:13 AM | Link to this
chuck -
“There have been a number of VERY CRUDE remarks that have spewed from your keyboard over the past several months. Climb down off that horse dearie…it’s a bit “high”.”
actually, no, when it comes to that particular phrase, I won’t.
don’t like it?
tough.
By chuck
February 18, 2009 9:17 AM | Link to this
Don’t like being called out on the hypocrisy? TOUGH.
By USinUK
February 18, 2009 9:21 AM | Link to this
Frustrated -
“my point is that the responsibilty is the woman’s first….and I hate to be so ho-hum about the topic, but she is the the only one that can get pregnant, and when she does, she carries that baby by herself for 9 months.”
yep. and accidents happen to even the most responsible of women - including those who are married. using that phrase makes it sound like you’re referring to some trollop who is getting her kicks with a nameless/faceless stranger in an alleyway. not to mention, that phrase also removes all responsibility from the Party of the Second Part. while he can’t get pregnant, he is culpable for any escaped little swimmers and where they go.
By USinUK
February 18, 2009 9:24 AM | Link to this
chuck -
“Don’t like being called out on the hypocrisy? TOUGH.”
if you’re going to call me on crassness, then at least support your assertion with a quote … if not, then it’s just blind flailing.
By Gale
February 18, 2009 9:30 AM | Link to this
It certainly was busy yesterday. I was off celebrating my 17th anniversery. We saw the King Tut exhibit and the Chinese terracotta soldiers exhibit. They are both great.
Lyrazel, I think you make a valid point. I am less concerned with the potential of someone picketing my house than I am of receiving piles of junk mail because my address was published as a supporter of a specific group. $100 seems a bit low for anyone to worry about the level of support for a specific political view. Lots of people are able to put that much skin in the game. $1000 seems like a more realistic point. I would also limit this to political supporters. I understand the issue with the Clinton Foundation as special. But most charities should not be required to divulge doner lists. Planned Parenthood is an example of a group that seeks to influence policy. Are they subject to the transparency rule?
By Gandalf, the White!
February 18, 2009 9:33 AM | Link to this
Spread your legs and fly away, spread your legs and FLLYYY AWAY…!
did I get that wrong?
By USinUK
February 18, 2009 9:41 AM | Link to this
Gale -
“I was off celebrating my 17th anniversery. We saw the King Tut exhibit and the Chinese terracotta soldiers exhibit. They are both great”
congrats on your anniv!! sounds like you had a lovely day. yay you!! and here’s to 17 more years!!!
GtG -
“did I get that wrong?” I’m so not chuckling at that. ;-)
By Gale
February 18, 2009 9:43 AM | Link to this
BTW Gandalf, I am sure you would be Griffendor. You remind me a lot of the Weasley twins. You do in one person what they need two to accomplish.
By The Other jack
February 18, 2009 9:47 AM | Link to this
USinUK
I wasn’t saying that the problem is only in the Black community. That’s just the problem that I am personally being effected by (talk about your butchered English!). AW was trying to say that because I was discussing the problems in the Black community that I was a racist. So now people in the Sudan can talk about abortions but we can’t talk about an entire apartment complex in Atlanta that has no married women and lots and lots of pregnancies and babies. I see that as a huge problem. We can’t even discuss it. How are we going to fix it?
The numbers were estimates, but it is a fact that the more kids, the more benefits they get. They know about birth control and they can get it free, so why do they have a kid every ten months?
That’s the problem here. In other parts of the country, there are other demographics that take up the role of welfare Moms.
I mostly watched NBC yesterday and I got the -243 number from Yahoo. NBC also said that the low numbers were resulting from Wall Street having doubts about the stimulus, but that was their 6:30 Nightly News. I just don’t watch CNBC. Their money numbers are correct, but they are never going to claim that Obama is doing anything wrong. Hell, SNL has done skits about their bias. When NBC has to admit that their subsidiary is that bias, then believe it.
It is funny watching NBC. They teased that they were “reading the fine print” in an investigative report about the stimulas. So in that report they talk about a little of the pork like Harry Reid’s elevated rail line from Disneyland to Vegas. Of course FOX had been screaming about every single point they were making in that great “investigative report” for at least two weeks. It is very easy to get all the news. Just watch FOX to see what Obama is doing wrong and watch anybody else to see what he is doing right.
The biggest problem I have with it is the fact that not a single lawmaker in either house or in either party read the damn thing. How many lawyers are in Congress? And they are signing something this important without reading it? Isn’t that Contracts 101? I know you support it but it smells. Too much pork. Not enough for the middle class, too many revised non-working welfare programs and this need to get it signed before anyone can really study it all add up to a giant steaming pile. I am so glad that the Republican walked away.
BTW, the 13 year old Dad story is just getting creepy. Did you hear about the 170 pound chimp that almost killed a woman? She lost both of her hands. Horrible horrible story.
*BB2 radio was playing Karen Carpenter’s version of “Mr. Postman look and see *
Yes, I think that toe tapper was considered Richard’s head banging period.
My best female friend’s boyfriend dumped her last night. She really loved that guy. She is closing in on 50 and she really wants to find a husband. I had a really late night and I just don’t get in the middle. I am not the male friend that talks down her boyfriends. I have had that done to me and it is maddening. But it was very hard. I have always thought he was a bit of a pr!ck.
Relationships, damn. I’m not sure I even want to deal with them right now.
By Frustrated
February 18, 2009 9:56 AM | Link to this
US-
Ok, since you don’t get the apology thing…let me start over…. If I could go back and erase that phrase I would… I am sure by reading the posts, you could tell I was a little upset..
Anywho, I also said the following “(for men, you keep in your pants or you pull it out…you get the drift)”…..directly after that phrase……So I am not taking the men’s responsibility out of anything…
I don’t know how to be much clearer on what I am saying…I have posted my opinion (The responsibility falls on the woman first) about 4-5 times now…
It’s an opinion….my opinion…I like having civil debates on differing view points….but it is very annoying when I have to repeat the same opinion because 1) people can’t move past a phrase that has come with apologies 2)when they keep telling me I am giving people free passes when I have stated over and over again that I have not….
But I am done with the topic…let’s move on….
I was watching TV last night about the bankruptcy problems…..I find it kind of irritating that I have never been behind in payments because I live in a house that I could afford, yet people who are behind in their payments have more options of refinancing and getting their bills lowered than those who are current…..
Maybe I should stop paying my bills and I can get a lower rate, and they can “cram” down my mortgage to fit today’s market value and get the rest of the $$debt$$$ forgiven.
By The Other jack
February 18, 2009 9:57 AM | Link to this
Lyrazel
Everybody seemed to really support that transparency thing for prop 8 supporters because Andea and Shaunti used that as their example, but once the idea of transparency is used on abortion supporters, the discussions seemed to die away.
That’s the problem with any radical legislation. It HAS to go both ways. We aren’t governed based on who we voted for. Obama supporters have to live by the same laws.
By Bruno
February 18, 2009 10:00 AM | Link to this
Frustrated - the term “spread your legs” is just crass
No more crass than making tampon references, IMO. Nasty. At least Faithful’s reference was related to the point, unlike AW’s.
By Gale
February 18, 2009 10:04 AM | Link to this
TOJ “she really wants to find a husband.” Part of the problem? I have a niece with that issue and her relationships keep crumbling. IMO it is caused by people not knowing and liking themselves first.
By Bruno
February 18, 2009 10:04 AM | Link to this
I find it kind of irritating that I have never been behind in payments because I live in a house that I could afford, yet people who are behind in their payments have more options of refinancing and getting their bills lowered than those who are current…..
Welcome to “Obama-think”, Frustrated. Reward the irresponsible, and make the responsible folks pay through the nose….
By USinUK
February 18, 2009 10:06 AM | Link to this
TOJ -
I didn’t think you were being racist at all - “I wasn’t saying that the problem is only in the Black community.” - nor did I think you were saying that this was just a black thing.
but you did say that the black community was improving economically and that just can’t happen if the # of out-of-wedlock births was increasing. I was just pointing out that that particular number has been increasing over the last couple of years. s’all.
“but it is a fact that the more kids, the more benefits they get”
my point is that a $300/mo increase per child WOULD probably be be an incentive - but when it’s considerably less than that, I think the financial incentive of an extra $50/child (for instance) would lose its luster. in fact, considering that the extra child would COST more than you would gain, it would be a disincentive.
“So in that report they talk about a little of the pork like Harry Reid’s elevated rail line from Disneyland to Vegas”
you do realize the # of tourists (especially those from across the pond and beyond) who go to CA usually do a trip to Vegas, as well. Not to mention, the huge # of CA natives who make the journey. this is a fantastic way to increase the number of jobs in a way that will benefit the environment. Sorry, but I do actually see the point of this project.
“Did you hear about the 170 pound chimp that almost killed a woman? She lost both of her hands. Horrible horrible story.”
I heard it attacked the woman with a knife??? wtf!
the mom of the 13-year-old boy is being taken to court for truancy (talk about shutting the barn door after the horse has bolted!). the young girl’s family has disappeared - no one knows where they are. how they’re going to do a DNA test, I don’t know. the father of the boy has 10 - count ‘em TEN kids in all - the woman he’s taken up with had her first kid at 13.
oh, yeah. these people would make Jerry Springer cringe.
“Yes, I think that toe tapper was considered Richard’s head banging period.” you just reminded me - do you remember the Pat Boone album out a few years ago with him dressed in full leathers??? eeeeesh.
By Gandalf, the White!
February 18, 2009 10:07 AM | Link to this
There are still Obama supporters? AFTER what he did to our country? WOW! That’s amazing!
By Bruno
February 18, 2009 10:08 AM | Link to this
Man, did I have the strangest dream a few minutes ago. I was on some kind of TV talent show in which I had to sing and dance. Because of my background as a Ukrainian dancer, I wasn’t worried about the dancing part, but I was frantically trying to come up with a song to sing since I’m not a very good singer. Thankfully my CPA called and woke me up, sparing me further angst.
By Gandalf, the White!
February 18, 2009 10:11 AM | Link to this
The old save 10%, tithe 10% concept is based on biblical passage so it must be insane! Spend what you make PLUS 10% or more! Don’t worry! Barry will bail you out! Poor people think Barry is going to take care of them. Poor people are stupid to think this way!
By Bruno
February 18, 2009 10:12 AM | Link to this
USinUK—I know it’s a little too early in the Obama Administration to make any final judgments, but what is your opinion re:
(1) The massive pork-barrel legislation masquerading as an economic stimulus package?
(2) The appointment of Tim Geithner?
All unpaid tax issues aside, Geithner hasn’t impressed me in the least so far.
By Gandalf, the White!
February 18, 2009 10:14 AM | Link to this
Barry want to allow bankrupcy judges to REDUCE THE PRINCIPLE on certain kinds of loans! WTF? This is insane!
By USinUK
February 18, 2009 10:16 AM | Link to this
Frustrated-
“Ok, since you don’t get the apology thing…let me start over”
hugs. got it.
Bruno -
“Reward the irresponsible, and make the responsible folks pay through the nose…”
so, the Bush administration bails out irresponsible banks and that’s okay. the Obama administration tries to find a way to stem the foreclosure tide so that the housing market will finally (!!!) hit a floor and this is a bad thing? these people will still have to make house payments and honor their other debts - they’re not getting off scot-free.
By Bruno
February 18, 2009 10:20 AM | Link to this
I am throwing my mother a surprise birthday party this year….and I am trying to find a band to play..any suggestions? I am looking for 70s….The Marshall Tucker Band, The Band, CCR, Stevie Ray Vaughan, Allman Brothers, Eric Clapton, etcetc..you get the picture.
Faithful, from your question, I’m assuming that you want to have a live band that does covers of 70s songs—is that correct?? There are several good cover bands available in Atlanta depending on your budget. I’m sure that EC himself would be available, though it might set you back a little financially. ; > }
One good local band I would suggest is the Breeze Kings. They are primarily a blues band, but do several covers of 70s songs.
By chuck
February 18, 2009 10:26 AM | Link to this
USUK, here is just one quote:
do I hate W??? I wouldn’t pee down the man’s throat if his stomach was on fire.
Feel free to BITE ME.
By Bruno
February 18, 2009 10:26 AM | Link to this
the Bush administration bails out irresponsible banks and that’s okay.
Ummm, in case you’ve been sleeping the past few months, I have criticized Bush over and over for the bank bailouts. it was you who was cheering Paulson and Bernanke on, not me, dear.
the Obama administration tries to find a way to stem the foreclosure tide so that the housing market will finally (!!!) hit a floor and this is a bad thing?
I’m not sure where you got your training in basic economics, but only the market can determine the true price of a house.
these people will still have to make house payments and honor their other debts.
Yeah, and in the end they get a house which costs far more than mine does at a big discount. Where is MY discount on my home???
they’re not getting off scot-free
Those damn Scots.
By Bruno
February 18, 2009 10:31 AM | Link to this
Poor people think Barry is going to take care of them. Poor people are stupid to think this way!
In case you didn’t notice, Gandalf, class warfare is the ticket to getting elected these days. Let the “rich” pay for it all. A free chicken in every pot!! Or was that free pot in every chicken?? I can’t remember right now.
By chuck
February 18, 2009 10:33 AM | Link to this
BTW, the 13 year old Dad story is just getting creepy. Did you hear about the 170 pound chimp that almost killed a woman? She lost both of her hands. Horrible horrible story.
USUK, didn’t this event occur in the UK? You know, that place where they have “comprehensive sex ed?”
By Gandalf, the White!
February 18, 2009 10:35 AM | Link to this
Foreclose on all the lying liars that got the too big mortgages and put them in debters prison! Oh, we don’t have them anymore? Drat! Liberal won again!
By USinUK
February 18, 2009 10:35 AM | Link to this
Bruno -
first of all … a Ukranian dancer??? like, with the big hat and knee-pants??? now, that’s cool.
secondly - I’m a bigger fan of Geithner than I am of Summers, but I was that way at the start. As for his sumble out of the gate last week, I’m really mixed about it - on the one hand, I’m glad that he decided to abandon the original asset plan that just wasn’t ever going to work (always pictured one of Cindarella’s ugly step-sisters trying to cram her size 9 1/2s into the glass slipper). On the other hand, why-oh-why did he go into a MAJOR announcement like that without all the deets??? seriously bad move. Given the way the markets reacted, I’m going to assume that’s not a move he’s going to repeat anytime soon. If he does, I have a feeling that the Big O will show him the door.
the stimulus package - (sorry for the random order) - in principle, I’m a fan. hell, get out of the congressional GOP conference room and the GOP governors are HUGE fans of the package because state governments are DESPERATE for help. I think that the tax cuts will offer a short-term boost that will lead into the longer-term boost from the jobs created out of the various packages. is it perfect?? oh, hell no. but I do think it will help.
basically, here’s what I think: the entire globe has been hit hard by this recession - in fact, news today is that OECD countries’ economies have contracted the most on record, falling 1.5% on the quarter. they’re ALL in the same boat of trying to figure out what to do to get their economies back on track, knowing full well that all their economies are inter-linked and fully dependent on the US getting back on its feet. all of these countries are passing different stimulus packages - not just the US - all of them are bailing out their banks, all of them are looking at subsidizing their major manufacturing companies. the US isn’t the only country out there passing this kind of legislation - everyone is trying to find a way out of this mire.
By USinUK
February 18, 2009 10:38 AM | Link to this
chuck -
actually, they don’t start comprehensive sex ed for young kids.
a swing and a miss. nice try, though.
By Lyrazel
February 18, 2009 10:42 AM | Link to this
Gale, when one picks at the right of privacy all groups will suffer as the potential of damages increases. Privacy is one of the least understood liberties in America and is being eroded by on-line agencies or by our institutions of government who post up our names when we receive services, ie, divorce records, home purchases, births, veterans, welfare recipients; the list grows. Soon we will be allowing medical records to be published on-line—while that can be a good thing—the security of anything on-line is almost nil. There is no new security being established. Thus, no patient actually can protect the drug/insurance companies from accessing your files even when you do not carry coverage or use their pill!
As for contributions being published to show donations to politicians—well, lobbyists have been doing so unchecked and continue to do so. The $1000 cap is for individuals…. rather odd if you ask me. Politicians are so easily influenced by special interest groups with money because their campaigns need funding. I have no doubt Peanut Co. of America gave a lot to GA politicians to eliminate oppressive regulations and stupid FDA inspections…..
By Gandalf, the White!
February 18, 2009 10:43 AM | Link to this
Free the Range Chicken! Get the Chickens off the Range! It’s cold out on the range, and the deer and the antelope are playing for keeps! Or are the Chickens free if they were on the Range? Whatever, they don’t need to be smoking any more pot! That’s what Barry did and it’s why his mind is warped with that mental disease, liberalism! Oh one more thing Bruno, if there is going to be warfare in class, I am going to school! “God I miss it, God help me I miss it so!”
By Bruno
February 18, 2009 10:48 AM | Link to this
like, with the big hat and knee-pants??? now, that’s cool.
We wore baggy pants, leather boots, and embroidered shirts, but no hats. I joined the group (Zoria—which means “star”) for three reasons:
(1) The girls
(2) The vodka
(3) The girls
We traveled up and down the East Coast giving performances, which was a total blast. Lot of great memories.
By Gandalf, the White!
February 18, 2009 10:48 AM | Link to this
Do they teaach butt sex to avoid babies?
By Gandalf, the White!
February 18, 2009 10:48 AM | Link to this
Do they teaach butt sex to avoid babies?
By USinUK
February 18, 2009 10:51 AM | Link to this
“Feel free to BITE ME.”
awwwwwwww … chuckles …. you went through weeks and weeks of posts to find “I wouldn’t pee down that man’s throat if his stomach was on fire” … that’s so … sad…
Bruno -
“it was you who was cheering Paulson and Bernanke on, not me, dear”
they’re doing what they have to do - without the banks being stabilized, the economy is going to take YEARS longer to recover. (unless you WANT to start keeping you cash in a coffee can under the bed like your great grandma used to have to do)
“I’m not sure where you got your training in basic economics, but only the market can determine the true price of a house.”
and I’m not sure if you read the news, but the record number of foreclosures is dumping houses on the market, and the overstock isforcing prices down. if we can stem the number of foreclosures, then we can create a floor for house prices. and that, my dear, IS basic economics.
“Yeah, and in the end they get a house which costs far more than mine does at a big discount. Where is MY discount on my home???”
if you qualify for the program, then go for it - no one is stopping you.
“class warfare is the ticket to getting elected these days”
always remember, when you point a finger, there are 4 pointing back at you. “welfare queens” is just a small example of the class warfare being conducted from the right side of the aisle.
“Those damn Scots.”
you’ll visit for the bagpipes, you’ll stay for the haggis! ;-)
By Bruno
February 18, 2009 10:52 AM | Link to this
a swing and a miss. nice try, though.
BTW, I think that you owe Faithful (and chuck) an apology. You singled out Fiathful for making a crude remark (one of her first to date), while you and your Lib buddies make crude references all the time. Why the double-standard???
By USinUK
February 18, 2009 10:58 AM | Link to this
Bruno -
“We traveled up and down the East Coast giving performances, which was a total blast. Lot of great memories.”
way. flippin. cool.
the vodka wasn’t home brew, was it??
(on a totally unrelated aside - did you ever see Michael Palin’s Pole to Pole? there was a sequence when he was invited to a Russian filmmaker’s house for dinner and you got to see his face get redder and redder with each and every shot of homemade vodka studded with sliced garlic … GAH).
By Bruno
February 18, 2009 10:59 AM | Link to this
you do realize the # of tourists (especially those from across the pond and beyond) who go to CA usually do a trip to Vegas, as well. Not to mention, the huge # of CA natives who make the journey. this is a fantastic way to increase the number of jobs in a way that will benefit the environment. Sorry, but I do actually see the point of this project.
What was your name again?? It must be Polyanna. There’s no WAY IN HELL that the $20 Billion being set aside for this “Train to Nowhere” will be recouped. In case you were unaware, Amtrak loses a ton of money every year, as will this new train line.
By Bruno
February 18, 2009 11:05 AM | Link to this
but the record number of foreclosures is dumping houses on the market, and the overstock isforcing prices down. if we can stem the number of foreclosures, then we can create a floor for house prices. and that, my dear, IS basic economics.
OMG—here we go again. Prices, dear, are ALWAYS determined by supply and demand in a free and fair market. Period. When there is an oversupply (as in the housing market), it’s only natural for for prices to fall. There is no “we can create a floor” by artificially subsidizing the prices. The bottom line is that we can bite the bullet now and let the market return to health on its own, or we can prolong the problem indefinitely through artificial price manipulation. You really are a socialist at heart, aren’t you?
By USinUK
February 18, 2009 11:06 AM | Link to this
Bruno -
“BTW, I think that you owe Faithful (and chuck) an apology. You singled out Fiathful for making a crude remark (one of her first to date), while you and your Lib buddies make crude references all the time. Why the double-standard???”
you know, Bruno - one of the first things you learn in pre-marital counseling is to avoid phrases like “you always” and “ALL the time” because no one ALWAYS does stuff.
I hate the phrase in question. HATE it. for the reasons I stated above (feel free to scroll). and I said that the phrase is crass, not Frustrated.
so. no. I’ll not apologize.
By USinUK
February 18, 2009 11:10 AM | Link to this
Bruno -
“In case you were unaware, Amtrak loses a ton of money every year, as will this new train line.”
Amtrak’s lines between DC and Boston actually get very good traffic and do well - unfortunately, profits are weighed down by the less trafficked lines, such as Atlanta and other areas where people would rather drive or fly.
however, given the gas situation we just had last summer, don’t you think that investing in rail is a good thing between major tourist destinations???
By Bruno
February 18, 2009 11:15 AM | Link to this
you’ll visit for the bagpipes, you’ll stay for the haggis! ;-)
On St. Paddy’s Day several years ago, they had a “Show me your shillelagh” contest here in Atlanta. Totally hilarious. Now we know what Scotsmen keep under their kilts.
the vodka wasn’t home brew, was it??
I think it was imported from Russia.
By USinUK
February 18, 2009 11:17 AM | Link to this
Bruno -
“Prices, dear, are ALWAYS determined by supply and demand in a free and fair market. Period. When there is an oversupply (as in the housing market), it’s only natural for for prices to fall. There is no “we can create a floor” by artificially subsidizing the prices”
you would be correct if the plan had anything to do with subsidizing prices for houses on the market. however, what it does is work with people to prevent their house from being foreclosed, thus STOPPING the flow of houses onto the market.
using basic market principles to create a floor.
“OMG—here we go again.”
and now who is being condescending?
By Frustrated
February 18, 2009 11:19 AM | Link to this
these people will still have to make house payments and honor their other debts
Getting your 200k mortgage crammed down to 150k at a low interest rate over 40 years sounds like a good deal….and ppppllleeeeeaaaasssseeee stop with the “honor other debt”…it’s THEIR bills…the same kind I am paying on… And I would be able to pay a lot easier with my mortgage payment cut in half, believe-you-me!
The fact of me paying on time means I don’t get to have 20k shaved off my mortgage….but because John Doe down the road bought a house for twice the amount he could afford, and now can’t keep up with the payments….well, congrats to him, he just saved big $$$$..
I understand the importance of people being able to stay in their houses….but just because you get to the point of filing bankruptcy shouldn’t give you a free coupon for 5,10,20k off your mortgage. Extend the loan over 45 years for all I care…but don’t change what they REALLY owe on their house….
By Bruno
February 18, 2009 11:19 AM | Link to this
you know, Bruno - one of the first things you learn in pre-marital counseling is to avoid phrases like “you always” and “ALL the time” because no one ALWAYS does stuff.
Okay, let me change that to “frequently”. But you’re still a hypocrite for singling out Faithful while giving yourself and your Lib buddies a free pass.
BTW, are you proposing to me???? ; > }
By chuck
February 18, 2009 11:21 AM | Link to this
Not exactly a “swing and a miss” on the “crassness” issue was it? You seem to be strangely silent on that one.
By Bruno
February 18, 2009 11:28 AM | Link to this
and now who is being condescending?
Okay, I’ll adjust the condescension score card then: Bruno 1, USinUK 2358.
If we are going to get married, all I can say is that you’d better be good in bed if I’m going to have to put up with all this grief. ; > }
By Mara
February 18, 2009 11:33 AM | Link to this
Everybody seemed to really support that transparency thing for prop 8 supporters because Andea and Shaunti used that as their example, but once the idea of transparency is used on abortion supporters, the discussions seemed to die away.
sigh…there is a big difference between giving to a non-profit charity (like Planned Parenthood) and giving to a political cause (like Yes on 8).
I don’t have a problem with publishing the names of people who give to political groups. Take NARAL Pro-Choice for example, since they ARE dedicated to electing pro-choice legislators and lobbying on legislation, IOW influencing public policy which affects the PUBLIC at large, their members list should be public record.
But I do not think that Planned Parenthood supporters should be published because their mission is providing reproductive health care and community outrreach. While some of their activities may involve some politics (as does ANY issue involving abortion), they aren’t aiming to influence policy per se.
If the LDS were running a “Pray away the Gay” outreach and not seeking to influence the law, I would be outraged on their behalf if their ‘councilors’ names were published. BUT, those LDS folks who worked to support “Yes on 8” should not be so protected because THEIR aim was to influence PUBLIC policy.
There is a difference between politics and charity. IMO, politics should NEVER be anonymous and charity should ALWAYS be.
By Bruno
February 18, 2009 11:33 AM | Link to this
Not exactly a “swing and a miss” on the “crassness” issue was it? You seem to be strangely silent on that one.
Unfortunately, chuck, admitting that she is wrong isn’t one of USinUK’s strong suits.
By USinUK
February 18, 2009 11:36 AM | Link to this
Bruno -
“On St. Paddy’s Day several years ago, they had a “Show me your shillelagh” contest here in Atlanta. Totally hilarious. Now we know what Scotsmen keep under their kilts.”
heeheehee … there’s a reason they place their sporrins (sporins?) so strategically.
Frustrated and Bruno -
“Extend the loan over 45 years for all I care…but don’t change what they REALLY owe on their house….”
I agree with you both on not changing the premiums - I’d prefer it if they changed from ARMs (which is what has killed most homeowners) to fixed. From what I have read - which, I’m still trying to glean all the details - the actual loan amount isn’t changing - just the monthly payments via refinancing. But, again, don’t take that as gospel, I’m still playing catch-up.
“But you’re still a hypocrite for singling out Faithful while giving yourself and your Lib buddies a free pass.”
if AW or Gale or anyone else had used that vile phrase, I would have called them on it. AGAIN, I said the phrase was crass, not Frustrated. you and chuckleberryfinn want to call me a hypocrite - well, since it’s your favorite word to sling around, so be it.
By Bruno
February 18, 2009 11:38 AM | Link to this
Wht do you say about that train project, Gandalf? I’d say that that $20 Billion could be better used to kill a bunch of Muslims overseas. What do you think?
By The Other jack
February 18, 2009 11:39 AM | Link to this
Gale
‘My heart is broken for her. She just wants the marriage thing. It’s all about the commitment. This is why I have no problem with gay marriage. It’s just part of a relationship.
By Bruno
February 18, 2009 11:45 AM | Link to this
But I do not think that Planned Parenthood supporters should be published because their mission is providing reproductive health care and community outrreach. While some of their activities may involve some politics (as does ANY issue involving abortion), they aren’t aiming to influence policy per se.
I have to disagree with you on that one, Mara. From my perspective, Planned Parenthood is all about influencing policy, albeit one abortion at a time. Did you catch the segment on TV whereby a young woman went undercover to a PP clinic claiming that she was a 13 year old girl who had become impregnated by a 20+ year old man? The PP counselor told her to lie about the age of the fictitious father so that there would be no legal repercussions and attempted to arrange for an abortion for her, all without her family’s consent. Obviously those are the actions of one individual, but a lot of people feel that PP has a pro-abortion agenda.
By chuck
February 18, 2009 11:45 AM | Link to this
Actually USUK, I remembered that quote PRECISELY because it WAS SO CRASS. It took about 2 minutes to find it by putting the most crass word into the search bar on the browser tool bar.
Nice try though. You challenged me because I didn’t provide “a quote”. So I did. In the future, however, you might want to remember that this is a blog, not a “research paper”. Since most of us read many newspapers and watch a variety of news programs, suffice it to say that we are fairly well informed and are not required to “cite our sources” while blogging. The fact that you feel the need to do so (even though most of the time you pull your quotes out of context or use sources that are clearly biased) says volumes about you as does your need to always be “right” or have the last word.
In my own humble opinion, I’m guessing that you had a domineering father and that you don’t get much of a chance to give your opinions with hubby either. Trying to make up for it here will get you nothing more than further heartache. Maybe you ought to follow your own advice and read your own posts. THEN maybe you will see how shrill, unattractive and ineffectual your arguments are.
By USinUK
February 18, 2009 11:46 AM | Link to this
Bruno -
“Okay, I’ll adjust the condescension score card then: Bruno 1, USinUK 2358.”
a’scuse me, mister, but I believe I have apologized and made an effort to NOT be condescending over the last week. so, if I’m going to try, then how about a mutual effort, yeah?
“If we are going to get married, all I can say is that you’d better be good in bed if I’m going to have to put up with all this grief. ; > }”
I’d say “ask the mister” - but I don’t think he’d appreciate the inquiry ;-)
Bruno and chuck -
“Unfortunately, chuck, admitting that she is wrong isn’t one of USinUK’s strong suits.”
Bruno - does this make you the pot or the kettle??? when I am wrong, I admit it. in this case, I’m not. chuck wants to call me out for “a number of very crude remarks” then can only find 1 quote to justify his broad brush and I’m supposed to lie supplicant and beg forgiveness for my many trespasses??? ah. no.
By Lyrazel
February 18, 2009 11:46 AM | Link to this
Bruno said: Let the “rich” pay for it all. A free chicken in every pot!! Or was that free pot in every chicken?? I can’t remember right now.
Lyrazel answers: Free pot (illegal but free) is offered for the soul of the chicken in your soup.
Has anyone noticed Congress is on vacation? Hmmmm…. a good way to pass an important bill no one actually read is put it up right before vacation. My heart goes out to David Obie who championed the lone voice saying: How many in Congress/House actually READ this bill? 1,200+ pages delivered to members in less than 13 hours before their vote. I know politicians usually don’t read legislation that crosses their desk but must it be so obvious?
I like how people who are in homes they cannot afford are being bailed out first then we are going to bail out all the folks who spent their equity on 3 cars, a boat and granite countertops because their homes have depreciated yet folks like me who read the contracts before we borrow money will end up with nothing. I am a masochist.
Flew over ATL on Monday. Saw lots of unfinished subdivisions where forests once were…big lots of excavated dirt… we will bail out the housing industry next and sadly there will be no legislation to protect the inconvenient forests GA has retained.
By chuck
February 18, 2009 11:47 AM | Link to this
Hey Bruno. When you are right, YOU are RIGHT.
By Frustrated
February 18, 2009 11:52 AM | Link to this
US-
I googled for the definition and here is one I found from Answers.com—-
In Bankruptcy, the reduction of various classes of Debt to a lower amount, with acceptance by the bankruptcy court. For real estate assets, the loan may be reduced (crammed down) to the property value.
By Bruno
February 18, 2009 11:53 AM | Link to this
if AW or Gale or anyone else had used that vile phrase, I would have called them on it.
So, let me get this straight: “spreading your legs” is crass, but “peeing down his throat” isn’t. Ok, got it!
Yes, dear. You’re right, dear. I’m sorry, dear.
P.S. Thanks for being a good sport, USinUK (at least most of the time).
By chuck
February 18, 2009 11:56 AM | Link to this
Mara, you and others WERE silent about the OTHER point of my post. Are you in favor of requiring FULL DISCLOSURE of all of those Barack HUSSEIN Obama supporters who mysteriously donated $99.00? Do you think it is possible that some of them contributed MULTIPLE times? Especially since Barack HUSSEIN Obama made sure that his campaign did NOT COLLECT information on them? Is it possible…for the same reason… that many of these contributors could be foreign nationals?
I don’t see anybody from the left screaming for disclosure THERE.
By Gale
February 18, 2009 11:56 AM | Link to this
TOJ, I understand loneliness, assuming that is why she wants to be married. (If it is for sex, I don’t understand at all.) In the case of my neice, she desparately wants to be a couple. It is a matter of expectations, IMO. I don’t know if your friend has ever been married. That could be an issue. I think if you have had a poor marriage, you realize that is no proof against loneliness. Sometimes it is better to be a whole single person than half of two people that are not a whole. (Does that make sense?)
By Bruno
February 18, 2009 11:58 AM | Link to this
a’scuse me, mister, but I believe I have apologized and made an effort to NOT be condescending over the last week. so, if I’m going to try, then how about a mutual effort, yeah?
I’m JUST KIDDING, hon.
I’d say “ask the mister” - but I don’t think he’d appreciate the inquiry ;-)
I already know the answer, so need to bother the mister. I’ve dated a redhead before. ; > }
I’m supposed to lie supplicant
Stop it, you’re getting me all hot and bothered.
By Lyrazel
February 18, 2009 11:59 AM | Link to this
USinUK said: however, given the gas situation we just had last summer, don’t you think that investing in rail is a good thing between major tourist destinations???
I love trains. I live near the Downeaster—service from Portland to Boston. Its always almost empty when I travel and operates 6x/day but does not connect to the airport. Maybe it gets full in summer taking tourists. Maine has zero bus/rail/air service except on the southern shores, thus anyone who lives north must travel hundreds of miles to get to the train. Please explain how a passenger train that uses more fuel than a jetliner is cost-efficient? Then explain how SMALL TOWNS that will still not be served by said rail will benefit? Thank you.
Adored your “I would not pee…” comment about Fearless Leader, btw. There is a photo of Cheney & Bush in the NYTimes today (under the Libby pardon). It is priceless.
By Bruno
February 18, 2009 12:01 PM | Link to this
Please forgive the giddy mood this AM, USinUK (Polyanna). I thought for sure that I was going to owe an additional 20K + on federal taxes this year, but my CPA called to inform me that it will be less thatn 10K due to the Bush tax cuts on capital gains taxes this year. Thank GOD I sold my commercial property before Obama and Co. start their “let’s soak the rich” tax reforms.
BTW, I hadn’t heard Obama referred to before as “the big O”. Good one.
By Frustrated
February 18, 2009 12:03 PM | Link to this
“Bruno - does this make you the pot or the kettle??? when I am wrong, I admit it. in this case, I’m not. chuck wants to call me out for “a number of very crude remarks” then can only find 1 quote to justify his broad brush and I’m supposed to lie supplicant and beg forgiveness for my many trespasses??? ah. no.”
Wow, I wasn’t going to comment because I don’t expect ANY kind of apologies from anyone….but I kind of found this funny….
Us, you told Chuck to prove his “number of rude remarks”, he quoted one, you told him it was sad because he spent his time scrolling back to actually find one….and now you are making a bold statement that he only found one…..
So in your eyes he is either 1) really sad for actually spending time doing what you asked…to prove the remarks 2) really sad because he only quoted one 3) just crazy for trying to express how sometimes you make the wrong comment at the wrong time too…
I think we just did a full circle…..now we are back to the beginning….
By USinUK
February 18, 2009 12:04 PM | Link to this
chuck -
“Actually USUK, I remembered that quote PRECISELY because it WAS SO CRASS. It took about 2 minutes to find it by putting the most crass word into the search bar on the browser tool bar.”
and 1 quote = “a number of VERY CRUDE remarks” … interesting math you got there.
“The fact that you feel the need to do so (even though most of the time you pull your quotes out of context or use sources that are clearly biased) says volumes about you as does your need to always be “right” or have the last word”
ah, yes, the “biased” CDC … and, let’s not forget the vast liberal bias of any media outlet that isn’t owned by Rupert Murdoch. as far as providing sources, gosh, I’m so sorry that you feel threatened by someone who does more than pull numbers or “facts” out of thin air (or bodily orifices).
hrm … if I was going to indulge in a little ping-pong-pop-psychology with you, I’d maybe say that you don’t like anyone questioning your authority (could that be why you teach the young’uns??? naaahhh)
“I’m guessing that you had a domineering father and that you don’t get much of a chance to give your opinions with hubby either. Trying to make up for it here will get you nothing more than further heartache. Maybe you ought to follow your own advice and read your own posts. THEN maybe you will see how shrill, unattractive and ineffectual your arguments are.”
if you only knew my father or my husband, you’d really appreciate how funny that statement actually is. talk about a swing and a miss - darlin, wiffleball ain’t got nothing on you. but thanks for the laugh. my favorite bit, though, is your use of the words “shrill” and “unattractive” … I just love guys who try to demean women with those terms …
By chuck
February 18, 2009 12:09 PM | Link to this
if you’re going to call me on crassness, then at least support your assertion with a quote … if not, then it’s just blind flailing.
chuck wants to call me out for “a number of very crude remarks” then can only find 1 quote to justify his broad brush and I’m supposed to lie supplicant and beg forgiveness for my many trespasses???
In your First post in the above quotes you admonish me for NOT PROVIDING A QUOTE. I thought when one used the phrase A QUOTE, that they mean 1 QUOTE. The English language must be different across the pond since in your LAST POST you castigate me for only providing 1 QUOTE when you asked for only 1 QUOTE. Again, this speaks volumes about the kind of person you are.
By Dictionary
February 18, 2009 12:10 PM | Link to this
Good Sport - (noun) A person, usually female, who accepts condescension, disrespect, or complete fabrications without responding in kind or calling attention to the severe insecurities of the delivering person. Can achieve status of Really Good Sport when thanking another for condescension, disrespect, fabrications, or being raped.
By USinUK
February 18, 2009 12:10 PM | Link to this
Frustrated -
“For real estate assets, the loan may be reduced (crammed down) to the property value.”
again, I’ve only read 4 or 5 articles about the program - the people involved are NOT in default, so they are NOT in bankruptcy. I’m still trying to get more details, but from everything I’ve read, the mortgage is refinanced (which is the root of the problem - the homeowners can’t be refinanced because they can’t get refinancing to reduce their mortgage)
and I misspoke earlier - I meant to say I don’t think they’re going to have their PRINCIPLE reduced - not their premium.
again - I’m still trying to get all the deets, so not gospel, but from everything I’ve read so far, that’s what I’m finding. (researching madly)
:-)
By Mara
February 18, 2009 12:19 PM | Link to this
chuck, I don’t comment on a lot of things, especially obvious attempts to draw fake comparisons. Political disclosure is political disclosure whether it’s the “Yes on 8” people or “Barack Obama for President”.
The law that mandates disclosure of $100 or more should apply equally. I do not know why the $100 number was chosen (I’m guessing logistics) but if you want to lobby to change it to $99, $50, or even anything over $1, that’s fine. I’d expect all political groups/causes to report. If you can get the law changed to require such disclosure, then I’d certainly expect all pertinent donations to be provided. As I said, POLITICS should be public whether it’s from the right or from the left.
and I’d like to point out that nobody from the left is screaming for disclosure for “Yes on 8” either. It’s the right that’s upset about everyone knowing who they are.
By Bruno
February 18, 2009 12:20 PM | Link to this
I love trains. I live near the Downeaster—service from Portland to Boston. Its always almost empty when I travel and operates 6x/day but does not connect to the airport. Maybe it gets full in summer taking tourists. Maine has zero bus/rail/air service except on the southern shores, thus anyone who lives north must travel hundreds of miles to get to the train. Please explain how a passenger train that uses more fuel than a jetliner is cost-efficient? Then explain how SMALL TOWNS that will still not be served by said rail will benefit? Thank you.
Lyrazel, a few months ago I looked into taking a train from here to Virginia to visit my mom. In order to make the trip, I was going to have to go all the way to Washington, D.C., then transfer to a different train, making it almost a 24 hour trip. The train from Atlanta left around 10 AM, so no problem. On the return trip, howevr, I would have had to catch the train in VA at approximately 2 AM. By the time I figured in the time and parking costs going to and from the station in Atlanta, it wasn’t worth it. So much for riding the train.
P.S. I like the “chicken soup of the soul” post. ; > }
By Bruno
February 18, 2009 12:22 PM | Link to this
Good Sport - (noun) A person, usually female, who accepts condescension, disrespect, or complete fabrications without responding in kind or calling attention to the severe insecurities of the delivering person. Can achieve status of Really Good Sport when thanking another for condescension, disrespect, fabrications, or being raped.
Good post, kimberly. I’m still trying to figure out why you think sarcasm and insults qualify as “enlightening” people. I know that you can do better.
By USinUK
February 18, 2009 12:22 PM | Link to this
Bruno -
“I already know the answer, so need to bother the mister. I’ve dated a redhead before. ; > }”
just, for the love of god, don’t take us out in the bright sun!
Lyra -
” Its always almost empty when I travel and operates 6x/day but does not connect to the airport.”
I used to take the Metro between DC, Philly, NY and Hfd all the time - and they were always crowded - but, that could be more because of the nature of business commuters, I dunno … you live in Portland??? gah! god love ya for dealing with the cold!!! Hfd was bad enough.
Frustrated -
“So in your eyes he is either 1) really sad for actually spending time doing what you asked…to prove the remarks 2) really sad because he only quoted one 3) just crazy for trying to express how sometimes you make the wrong comment at the wrong time too…”
O my God, I am heartily sorry for having offended Thee, and I detest all my sins, because of thy just punishment, but most of all because they offend Thee, my God, Who are all-good and deserving of all my love. I firmly resolve, with the help of Thy grace to confess my sins, to do penance and to amend my life. Amen.
is everybody happy now???
I still hate the phrase and think the phrase is incredibly crass. but I think the world of Frustrated (always have) - and would still bake for her parties.
By Lyrazel
February 18, 2009 12:25 PM | Link to this
Mara said: It’s the right that’s upset about everyone knowing who they are.
No Mara, people who value their privacy are screaming! Right or Left or Center… liberal, conservative… we all loose when our private donations becomes public
By Bruno
February 18, 2009 12:31 PM | Link to this
I bette take a blogging break since I’ve nearly exceeded the federal blogging limit this AM. For everyone’s enjoyment, I’m going to sing some Earth, Wind, and Fire:
Hearts of fire creates love desire Take you high and higher to the world you belong Hearts of fire creates love desire High and higher to your place on the throne
We’ve come together on this special day To sing our message loud and clear Looking back we’ve touched on sorrowful days Future pass, they disappear
You will find peace of mind If you look way down in your heart and soul Don’t hesitate ‘cause the world seems cold Stay young at heart ‘cause you’re never (never, never, ..) old at heart
That’s the way of the world Plant your flower and you grow a pearl A child is born with a heart of gold The way of the world makes his heart grow cold
By chuck
February 18, 2009 12:36 PM | Link to this
Hey Bruno,
Can a chiropractor doo anything for knee pain? I am really tired of getting steroid shots ever 6-8 months. They do seem to work thogh.
By Mara
February 18, 2009 12:38 PM | Link to this
Bruno - I’ve never met ANYONE who is “pro-abortion”, regardless of what the anti-choice lobby thinks. It would be like saying cardiologists are ‘pro-open heart surgery’ or that hospice workers have a ‘pro-death’ agenda.
No, I did not hear about your anecdote. Since I don’t know the back story, I don’t really feel comfortable saying much about it. From the information you provided, I’d have to question the actions of this one particular councilor. Just because this happened (or was alleged to have happen) does that mean that it’s PP POLICY to falsify records? I don’t think so. Should this councilor be held accountable for any violation of law they might have done? Certainly.
Anyway, regardless of any perceived “agenda” Planned Parenthood may or may not have, as long as they don’t attempt to LEGISLATE that agenda, they shouldn’t be held to any higher level than other private groups.
By chuck
February 18, 2009 12:45 PM | Link to this
I understand that Mara and I appreciate your answer. I just have trouble believing that Barack HUSSEIN Obama went out of his way to make SURE that his donations under $100.00 could not be identified for any reason OTHER than to get donations he could not otherwise get. For example, there was NO WAY to insure that the person making the donation was actually the OWNER of the credit card. There were a number of cases in which stolen credit card numbers were used to make donations for instance. Have you ever bought anything online without having to verify the correct billing address?
What bothers me even more is tha fact that they COULD NOT IDENTIFY WHERE THE DONATIONS CAME FROM, in terms of nationality. WHAT if his campaign was really financed by foreigners? Would that bother anyone besides me?
By The Other jack
February 18, 2009 12:48 PM | Link to this
USinUK
I didn’t think you were being racist at all - “I wasn’t saying that the problem is only in the Black community.” - nor did I think you were saying that this was just a black thing.
I know. AW did and I do believe that is a huge problem in that any attempt to even discuss that demographic is such a hot issue that it has retarded a lot of obvious solutions.
but you did say that the black community was improving economically and that just can’t happen if the # of out-of-wedlock births was increasing. I was just pointing out that that particular number has been increasing over the last couple of years. s’all.
That’s actually the point I was making. But the question I was asking is this: Is the lower economic end of the Black Demographic so out of control that it is still skewing the numbers even though the demographic’s overall social standing in increasing. I am asking questions, not trying to state facts.
my point is that a $300/mo increase per child WOULD probably be be an incentive - but when it’s considerably less than that, I think the financial incentive of an extra $50/child (for instance) would lose its luster. in fact, considering that the extra child would COST more than you would gain, it would be a disincentive.
That’s just the SSI. Housing allotments go up and food stamps payments go up and I think they go up a lot. I wouldn’t even begin to know where to even apply for those benefits. These people know the system and they know how to play that system. It’s the only job they have.
you do realize the # of tourists (especially those from across the pond and beyond) who go to CA usually do a trip to Vegas, as well. Not to mention, the huge # of CA natives who make the journey. this is a fantastic way to increase the number of jobs in a way that will benefit the environment. Sorry, but I do actually see the point of this project.
Hey, I’m a guy. If it goes fast and is cool, I’m there. The problem is that these programs are not stimulus. They may be stimulus to the few workers who will build the thing and the people that will be hired, but we all need help and that doesn’t do much for a lot of people. This was not a stimulus package, this was a spending package. I just think that we should stop repeating the same mistakes. What the hell happened to the money that we handed to Wall Street? Why did I need to put up the title to my car in order to get a loan? That’s the stimulus. Let’s get that package working and that money accounted for before we give away the farm. (too late)
I heard it attacked the woman with a knife??? wtf!
No. A chimp has 4 inch canines. They don’t need a knife. The owner had been stabbing the chip because the chimp was killing her friend. They say that it didn’t phase him. The cops had put together an armed escort to save the woman and then the chimp turned on them. He actually managed to enter a police car to attack an officer and he shot him. Crazy %&^*%^&
oh, yeah. these people would make Jerry Springer cringe.
A lot of that going around.
It has taken me hours to write this because I am putting out fires like crazy. I need a long walk to calm down. It is a lot easier to just set and put together my films. This business crap is nuts. Now I’m realizing why business people die young. My heart is pounding and that is just because I have had several phone conferences this morning. Things are going well, but the details are KILLING me. And do sales people EVER SHUT THE F^UCK UP?!?!?!?
I’m probably gone for the day.
Hasta Del Taco
By USinUK
February 18, 2009 12:51 PM | Link to this
“Can a chiropractor doo anything for knee pain? I am really tired of getting steroid shots ever 6-8 months. They do seem to work thogh.”
have you thought about keyhole surgery? I don’t know if it’s a bone or soft tissue issue, but if it’s the latter, my brother had it and it worked a treat.
if it’s osteo arthritis, then everyone I know has to grumble through the shots
By Bruno
February 18, 2009 12:53 PM | Link to this
Can a chiropractor doo anything for knee pain? I am really tired of getting steroid shots ever 6-8 months. They do seem to work thogh.
Yes, and no, chuck. Pain in the body can be subdivided into two categories: structural and functional. If the pain in your knee is structural in nature (e.g. a torn meniscus), then a chiro cannot help. If the pain is functional in nature (e.g. unbalanced muscular firing of the quadriceps muscle), then a chirp can very possibly help you. Until recently, the medical community at large, and orthopedists in particular, only recognized structural problems, and minimized the importance of proper kinetics. With the increasing popularity of PT, however, kinesiology is receiving long-overdue attention.
The biggest challenge, of course, is in finding an honest chiro who will shoot straight with you.
I hope that my answer helped.
By The Other jack
February 18, 2009 12:57 PM | Link to this
Gale
It makes sense. (Sorry, I’m running) I don’t think they actually split up, he just told her to look for someone else if she wants to get married. The problem is that he had been pushing her to marry him for almost a year. Men. They’re the worst. (See? I am almost a lesbian. I’M KIDDING!!)
I just told her to start working on her self and if he can keep up, then let him try. I think that helped.
By Bruno
February 18, 2009 1:05 PM | Link to this
Anyway, regardless of any perceived “agenda” Planned Parenthood may or may not have, as long as they don’t attempt to LEGISLATE that agenda, they shouldn’t be held to any higher level than other private groups.
Hopefully you caught the part in my post in which I stated that it was likely the actions of one particular counselor that were out of line, and that it’s likely not an organizational issue. But who knows? As far as I know, the young lady in question only had to go to ONE clinic to get the footage she was looking for.
As to your statement above, it is definitely a “shade of grey” whether PP is attempting to affect legislation or not. To begin with, they’ve already “won the fight” since abortion laws are about as liberal as they can be already. Secondly, by presenting abortion to young girls as a respectable option they can choose without their paren’ts consent, they ARE influencing voters, albeit one at a time, on a “grass-roots” level. Obviously they can’t pass any legislation themselves, since they aren’t elected officials.
By Bruno
February 18, 2009 1:13 PM | Link to this
have you thought about keyhole surgery? I don’t know if it’s a bone or soft tissue issue, but if it’s the latter, my brother had it and it worked a treat.
Surgery should always be a last resort, USinUK. While I’m glad that your brother got a good result, a substantial percentage of surgeries leave the person in worse condition and, unfortunately, are irreversible. Furthermore, medical statistics have shown that another substantial percentage of surgeries are unnecessary to begin with. I know that personally I have saved hundreds, if not thousands of people from having unnecessary back surgery.
Again, to quote Thomas Edison: “The doctor of the future will give no medicine, but will interest his patients in the care of the human frame, in diet, and in the cause and prevention of disease.”
By USinUK
February 18, 2009 1:16 PM | Link to this
Frustrated -
““For real estate assets, the loan may be reduced (crammed down) to the property value.””
I found what you’re talking about. That is NOT part of the plan that will automatically go into effect on 4 March, but is something that has to go through Congress since it is a change to the current bankruptcy law. Basically, it would allow a judge in a bankruptcy hearing to lower the principle to the current market value.
hope that helps :-)
heading home - have a good night!!
By Bruno
February 18, 2009 1:17 PM | Link to this
Catch you guys in a while. Thanks for being so cool, USinUK, even though you are a stubborn Scot!
By Frustrated
February 18, 2009 1:27 PM | Link to this
but I think the world of Frustrated (always have) - and would still bake for her parties.
Whoooooo-hooooo, you know Christmas is only 10 more months away!!!!!
I’ve only read 4 or 5 articles about the program - the people involved are NOT in default, so they are NOT in bankruptcy
IMO, it shouldn’t matter if you are in default or not….you signed the mortgage, you are accountable for paying the amount on your closing documents…period!….And as far as refinancing…it only goes so far… If you are financed at 100%, in a fixed 5% interest rate….you are not going to get much better than that…..the little wiggle room you MIGHT have is going to be eaten up with the closing costs that are rolled back into the mortgage.
I am not trying to say that people shouldn’t get help…there are honest people out there who have just lost everything. But reducing their mortgage is not the way….extend it, take a shortfall on trying to sell it (good luck with that)….or let it go and hope for better luck in 7 years when your credit rebounds.
For the people who are just in over their head trying to keep up with their neighbors, I say better luck next time..the more you bail them out, the farther their hand is going to extend the next time someone says “Help is on the way”.
Lord knows I am going to have to somehow aquire two houses before my kids are ready to leave the nest…they are not going to have the opportunities I had starting out…they are going to be paying for this mess.
By News Flash
February 18, 2009 1:33 PM | Link to this
Just in from the AP re: Obama’s let’s bail out the irresponsible mortgage plan:
Headlining Obama’s plan is a $75 billion Homeowner Stability Initiative, which would provide a set of incentives to mortgage lenders in an effort to convince them to help up to 4 million borrowers on the verge of foreclosure. The goal: cut monthly mortgage payments to sustainable levels, defined as no more than 31 percent of a homeowners income. Funding would come from the $700 billion financial industry bailout passed by Congress last fall.
Another key component would specifically help those said to be “under water” — with dwellings whose market value have sunk below the principal still owed on the mortgages. Such mortgages have traditionally been almost impossible to refinance. But the White House said its program will help 4 million to 5 million families do just that — if their mortgages are owned or guaranteed by Fannie Mae or Freddie Mac.
By Mara
February 18, 2009 1:36 PM | Link to this
Bruno - Now we know what Scotsmen keep under their kilts. O, do we now? LOL!
Leading Scottish kilt-making firm Slanj has written a clause into its hire terms requesting that underwear is worn at all times. Other firms, such as the prestigious Geoffrey (Tailor) Kiltmakers and Marchbrae Clothing, both on Edinburgh’s Royal Mile, have said they also back this policy.
The companies have introduced the clause because of the habit of some men to return extremely soiled garments.
While the firms dry clean the garments before they are hired out again, some kilts are so dirty they are unhygienic for staff to handle.
eeeewwwwwwww. Every time I think of the Scots, I picture Groundskeeper Willie.
Frustrated - I find it kind of irritating that I have never been behind in payments because I live in a house that I could afford, yet people who are behind in their payments have more options of refinancing and getting their bills lowered than those who are current…
What about the poor buggers who bought within their budget and kept up their payments…until they got laid off, down-sized or otherwise hit by fiscal catastrophe? Considering how unemployment has exploded, is it really fair to assume that anyone in foreclosure was imprudent and irresponsible?
My company has had three rounds of layoffs (first layoffs in 20+ years) and has cut hours to the bone. The Mr. has been hunting part-time work since his hours were cut, and frankly, even though he’s got experience in multiple fields, there are very few jobs to be found. We’ve been lucky that we have some savings to fill in the shortfall. Many don’t.
Maybe it’s irritating for you to see people who’re hard up getting help with their finances, but it seems to me that your view is short-sighted. Isn’t it far better to give a little bit now, while they can still help themselves? Or would you rather see them living completely on the government dole?
Lyrazel – my post “It’s the right that’s upset about everyone knowing who they are.” was in response to chuck insinuating that the left was ‘screaming for disclosure’ of “Yes On 8” funding but resisting disclosure of Barack Obama donations. (I don’t see anybody from the left screaming for disclosure THERE.) when in fact, all the Eightmaps folks were doing is defending transparency in politics. And again, I know you don’t agree, but IMHO, we should not encourage politicking from the shadows. We-the-people have a right to know who is influencing public policy.
While I agree with your broader point about the loss of privacy, I think that’s more an effect of the digital revolution than anything else. Even before campaign finance laws, parties and groups recorded names of supporters to facilitate direct mailing operations and those lists were sold, swapped, and passed around like a clay jug at a hillbilly convention. Political parties had lists, policy groups had lists, government offices had lists, newspapers and banks had lists. EVERYBODY had lists. The information has always been available, it’s just been too difficult and time consuming to compile. Now you just press a few buttons and voila you have a nice spreadsheet, all neat and tidy.
By chuck
February 18, 2009 1:44 PM | Link to this
Thanks Brudog, My main problem is osteo-arthritis. I’ve had 3 scopes done and I no longer have a miniscus. I’m looking at knee replacement, but I just turned 51 and I really want to wait until I’m closer to 60 to have it done. He said he could go in and grind the spurs off of the knee cap again but he would rather not do surgery until time to do the replacement, because he doesn’t think that it will give me much relief.
I think part of the problem has to do with the way that I walk. I tend to walk more on the outsides of my feet rather than centered over the balls of my feet. Sometimes when I think about it I force myself to walk with better posture. Not much I can do about the osteo but surgery but I hope I can find something more homeopathic than that in the meantime.
By Mara
February 18, 2009 2:03 PM | Link to this
Thought this was relevant to the topic two weeks ago (about whether unbelievers are ‘unfairly’ maligned in America)…I just found out that the State Constitutions of Arkansas, North Carolina, South Carolina, Tennesee, Mississippi, Texas, Pennsylvania, and Massachussetts denies atheists equal rights and in some states forbids their participation in civil life.
Arkansas - No person who denies the being of a God shall hold any office in the civil departments of this State, nor be competent to testify as a witness in any court.
North Carolina - Disqualifications of office. The following persons shall be disqualified for office: First, any person who shall deny the being of Almighty God.
South Carolina - No person shall be eligible to the office of Governor (or Lt. Gov., ed.) who denies the existence of the Supreme Being; …
Tennessee - No person who denies the being of God, or a future state of rewards and punishments, shall hold any office in the civil department of this state.
Mississippi - No person who denies the existence of a Supreme Being shall hold any office in this state.
Texas - No religious test shall ever be required as a qualification to any office, or public trust, in this State; nor shall any one be excluded from holding office on account of his religious sentiments, — provided he acknowledge the existence of a Supreme Being —.
Pennsylvania - No person who acknowledges the being of a God and a future state of rewards and punishments shall, on account of his religious sentiments, be disqualified to hold any office or place of trust or profit under this Commonwealth.
Massachussetts - Any every denomination of Christians, demeaning themselves peaceably, and as good subjects of the commonwealth, shall be equally under the protection of the law: and no subordination of any one sect or denomination to another shall ever be established by law.
By chuck
February 18, 2009 2:17 PM | Link to this
passed around like a clay jug at a hillbilly convention.
After watching the Diane Sawyer special on Appalachia you might want to change that “clay jug” to a mountain dew.
By Gale
February 18, 2009 2:30 PM | Link to this
Mara, I should be glad I am allowed to vote.
By Eric
February 18, 2009 2:46 PM | Link to this
… democracy is at stake when small donors can no longer contribute without having private information posted on the Internet for the purpose of a coordinated hate campaign. I don’t agree, Shaunti. All funding of legislative initiatives should be a matter of public record, whether one believes Prop 8 was a coordinated hate campaign or not. The act of disclosure itself is democracy in action and provides accountability.
By USinUK
February 18, 2009 3:29 PM | Link to this
OMG - Clark Howard has cancer??? :-(
I even got the mister hooked on listening to Clark when we were in CT …
good luck, Clark - best wishes for a full recovery!
Bruno -
“Thanks for being so cool, USinUK, even though you are a stubborn Scot!”
I can’t help it - it’s in the MacGenes!!!
(yep - it’s time to pull out my favorite scots joke - what would the song title have been had the Rolling Stones been Scottish instead of English?? “Hey! McLeod! Get offa my ewe!!”)
chuck -
“I’m looking at knee replacement, but I just turned 51 and I really want to wait until I’m closer to 60 to have it done”
look at it this way - don’t be in pain longer than you need to - why put it off until you’re 60 if it’s going to mean you can walk around without a grinding pain now?
By Gandalf, the White!
February 18, 2009 3:34 PM | Link to this
Bruno I believe the only words that can speak to what to do with that train money would be a Bradley Fighting Vehicle Fire command! “Gunner, HE, Ragheads in the open, one two hundred meters!” “Identified!” ” Fire!” “ON THE WAY!” “Z- Pattern! target, target, target, target CEASE FIRE! Target Destroyed!”
By Gandalf, the White!
February 18, 2009 3:34 PM | Link to this
Bruno I believe the only words that can speak to what to do with that train money would be a Bradley Fighting Vehicle Fire command! “Gunner, HE, Ragheads in the open, one two hundred meters!” “Identified!” ” Fire!” “ON THE WAY!” “Z- Pattern! target, target, target, target CEASE FIRE! Target Destroyed!”
By Gandalf, the White!
February 18, 2009 3:34 PM | Link to this
Bruno I believe the only words that can speak to what to do with that train money would be a Bradley Fighting Vehicle Fire command! “Gunner, HE, Ragheads in the open, one two hundred meters!” “Identified!” ” Fire!” “ON THE WAY!” “Z- Pattern! target, target, target, target CEASE FIRE! Target Destroyed!”
By USinUK
February 18, 2009 3:35 PM | Link to this
Mara -
Interesting stuff — I wonder if the clauses were added because of the Red Menace?? (when the GA Gen Assembly takes it’s oath of office, they still have to swear that they’re not communists … I always got a kick out of that)
okay … suppahtime … have a good night!
By Frustrated
February 18, 2009 3:47 PM | Link to this
After watching the Diane Sawyer special on Appalachia you might want to change that “clay jug” to a mountain dew.
My hubby was talking about this the other night….he said it was disturbing to watch and swore never to drink another Mountain Dew in his life…
By News Flash
February 18, 2009 4:21 PM | Link to this
My main problem is osteo-arthritis. I’ve had 3 scopes done and I no longer have a miniscus. I’m looking at knee replacement, but I just turned 51 and I really want to wait until I’m closer to 60 to have it done. He said he could go in and grind the spurs off of the knee cap again but he would rather not do surgery until time to do the replacement, because he doesn’t think that it will give me much relief.
From your description, it sounds like your knee pain is primarily structural in nature, chuck. When the menisci are gone (there are two per each knee), then you are down to bone-on-bone, in which the femur bone rubs against the tibia bone, which can be a painful situation. Bone spurs on the knee cap are usually caused by a “tracking problem” in which the knee cap slips out of its normal channel when tracking up and down as we walk. This may be related to the way you are walking. For this part of the problem, some sessions with a Physical Therapist may be beneficial. A chiropractor may be of benefit as well if the cause of your abnormal gait is due to loss of the normal motion of the sacroiliac joints.
Deciding WHEN to have a knee replacement can be somewhat tricky, since the replacement joints have a limited lifetime (usually 20 years). If you elected to have the surgery now, you would have to have it again at age 71. If you wait until you are 60, then that will take you up to age 80, at which point you may be dead anyway.
I hope I can find something more homeopathic than that in the meantime.
I’ve had a number of clients who benefited from taking glucosamine/chondroitin, which stimulates the growth of cartilage. Cartilage is what covers our bones around the joints, providing some cushioning. As for natural anti-inflammatories, your local health food store may be able to recommend something for you, such as valerian root. OTC ibuprofen can also be effective.
Disclaimer: The above statements are not intended to diagnose or treat any specific medical conditions. Consult your physician before undertaking any treatment.
By Bruno
February 18, 2009 4:27 PM | Link to this
My hubby was talking about this the other night….he said it was disturbing to watch and swore never to drink another Mountain Dew in his life…
I’m not sure if it was the same special, but I recently saw snippets of a show which focused on how oxycontin has devastated the Appalachia communities in WV and Kentucky.
On an unrelated note, guess which county in GA still receives money under the federal Appalachia program?? Gwinnett County. Which is why I oppose the 200 some-odd new programs that Obama is proposing. Once those federal programs start, they never end, regardless of whether they are needed or not.
By Bruno
February 18, 2009 4:31 PM | Link to this
OMG - Clark Howard has cancer??? :-(
Sad news. He’s definitely one of the good guys.
By The Other jack
February 18, 2009 4:36 PM | Link to this
Frustrated
I am from Appalachia. My high school was one of the top 50 academic rated high schools in the nation. It is still in the top 100. In my little home town, there were three excellent Colleges, two of them private Women’s colleges and one of those is one of the world’s best equestrian schools. Not exactly what you are seeing on ABC, huh?
This is just your basic reason to make fun of poor white people. This is why it is so damned important that all the news anchors loooove to point out that the little girl that is missing in Florida was taken, not from a home, but from a trailer or double-wide. It is a living caste system at it’s very worst.
I could go just about anywhere in the country and find similar drug and health problems. And needless to say, within walking distance of my house in Atlanta there are apartment complexes where the drug, health and unwed mother problems are at least as bad but I can’t even discuss that on here without being called a racist.
I know almost every place that was mentioned in the ABC piece and what they don’t show you is the people right up the road from those people that are hard working people who make a good living and are just as educated as anywhere in the country. Since when is buying Oxicoten for 20 bucks a pop a national news story? Since when is kids with bad teeth a national news story.
People from that area have enough problems living down the Lil’ Abner / Beverly Hillbillies image that has been hung on them. Sorry to rant, but the entire program was a bunch of condescending crap. It starts with a child singing a hymn, talking all about the blood of Jesus and then she starts talking about how screwed up her Mom and her life is. So yes, let’s associate Christianity with as many F^cked up people as we can.
It is nothing more than the same old crap that has been done about that area since I was a kid.
Again, sorry to rant.
By Bruno
February 18, 2009 4:38 PM | Link to this
OMG - Clark Howard has cancer??? :-(
Sad news. He’s definitely one of the good guys.
By Bruno
February 18, 2009 4:47 PM | Link to this
People from that area have enough problems living down the Lil’ Abner / Beverly Hillbillies image that has been hung on them. Sorry to rant, but the entire program was a bunch of condescending crap. It starts with a child singing a hymn, talking all about the blood of Jesus and then she starts talking about how screwed up her Mom and her life is. So yes, let’s associate Christianity with as many F^cked up people as we can.
I’m pretty sure that was the same program that I watched a few minutes of. As you might guess, I am somewhat of a channel surfer. One time, when a GF compained about channel surfing, I told her “Honey, it takes GENIUS to be able to keep with so many channels at once!”
Actually, I’ve often heard that the easiest way to find out who wears the pants in a family is by observing who controls the TV remote.
By Frustrated
February 18, 2009 4:52 PM | Link to this
TOJ-
Sorry I hit a nerve…. I didn’t actually see the episode, but my husband said that even the two achors reporting about the story didn’t agree on what should be done….
And I totally agree with you, there are places all over the US with the same problems….they just haven’t had the “dumb redneck” sign hung on their doorstep.
I know where you are coming from…I am not from Appalachia, but I have a story along those lines about where I grew up…it’s a totally different place now, but still holds the reputation it did 20 years ago when you talk to others who are not from there…..
By Frustrated
February 18, 2009 4:58 PM | Link to this
Actually, I’ve often heard that the easiest way to find out who wears the pants in a family is by observing who controls the TV remote.
Malarkey!!!!!! I call those people the couch potatoes, not the family CEO:)
By Bruno
February 18, 2009 4:59 PM | Link to this
it’s a totally different place now, but still holds the reputation it did 20 years ago when you talk to others who are not from there…..
Coming out of NJ, I know what you mean, Faithful.
If you find a local cover band for your mom’s party, why don’t you run it by us so that folks can give you an opinion. You are very generous to put on such a good party for dear ol’ mom.
By Bruno
February 18, 2009 5:01 PM | Link to this
So, who is going to run the Peachtree Road Race with me this year?? It’s getting tiresome to be the only W2W rep out there. How about you, TOJ?? This will be #14 in a row for me.
By American Mommy
February 18, 2009 5:20 PM | Link to this
Huh? I saw it too, TOJ. So a documentary report about health and societal problems in the mountains is horribly bigoted, but your constant ranting about the crime and unwed mothers in your own neighborhood is not?
I never called you a racist, although you seem to luuuuuuv squawking that I did. (“Victim of unfair persecution, here!!”) I’m fairly certain you have no problem whatsoever with [politically conservative, republican-voting] people of any color who work, pay taxes, and support their children. I simply pointed out that living in fear of your neighbors and being disgusted with them all the time seemed more like “hate thy neighbor” than “love thy neighbor.” ONCE AGAIN I APOLOGIZE IF YOU THINK I CALLED YOU A RACIST for posting paragraph after paragraph of “data” about black, unmarried women who reproduce and how much that really really really sticks in your craw. That being said, it’s unfair to expect that every person even knows what “love thy neighbor” means, so I’m not judging you for it — I only suggested you might move to a place where you won’t be so angry and upset all the time. I’ll go back to minding my own business now. Please continue ranting about whomever it is you loathe deeply today.
By USinUK
February 19, 2009 8:19 AM | Link to this
… well, since we’re talking about race, anyway …
what the HE!! was the NY Post thinking printing that editorial cartoon??? talk about a “fire the editor” moment (and the cartoonist).
if you haven’t seen it, here: http:// www.nypost.com/ delonas/delonas.htm
(select the cartoon for yesterday)
I mean, criminey … talk about “look behind you … waaaaaayyyyyy off in the distance … do you see the line???” (I know, I know … this IS Rupert Murdoch we’re talking about …)
By USinUK
February 19, 2009 8:29 AM | Link to this
Bruno - “So, who is going to run the Peachtree Road Race with me this year?? It’s getting tiresome to be the only W2W rep out there. How about you, TOJ?? This will be #14 in a row for me”
gah. but I’ll cheer you on from across the pond.
By The Other jack
February 19, 2009 8:37 AM | Link to this
AW
It’s no surprise that you got that from my post. You are so hate filled that it is impossible to get any other point across to you.
You have a great day and please don’t be offended if you feel a little ignored.
K?
By Frustrated
February 19, 2009 8:42 AM | Link to this
what the HE!! was the NY Post thinking printing that editorial cartoon??? talk about a “fire the editor” moment (and the cartoonist).
Um, wow….waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaayyyyyyyyyyyy over the line on that one….
I don’t care how much you disapprove of someone or their actions, that was totally uncalled for!
By The Other jack
February 19, 2009 8:47 AM | Link to this
USinUK
The only cartoon I saw was the one where money was flying around everywhere and the tax payer was on his last leg. The day requester at the bottom of the page didn’t work.
If you look at the Yahoo headlines, the No Drama Obama Attorney General is calling us a nation of cowards for not talking more about race.
Do these guys realize that sometimes people might actually quote them?
By The Other jack
February 19, 2009 8:51 AM | Link to this
USinUK
There it is. Yep that and the Attorney General calling us a nation of cowards is both over the line.
Looks like this is not going to be a Karen Carpenter kind of day.
By USinUK
February 19, 2009 8:52 AM | Link to this
Frustrated -
“I don’t care how much you disapprove of someone or their actions, that was totally uncalled for!”
cereal. what kills me is their excuse for it “The cartoon is a clear parody of a current news event, to wit the shooting of a violent chimpanzee in Connecticut. It broadly mocks Washington’s efforts to revive the economy. Again, Al Sharpton reveals himself as nothing more than a publicity opportunist.”
ah. no. especially when you place the cartoon directly opposite a picture of Obama signing the bill … it’s not “broadly” mocking anything - it’s a racist cartoon. just. unbelievable.
btw … waiting 10 months for baking??? I’m sorry, I don’t understand that concept … made carrot cake and 3 types of cookies for my sweetie for V-day! EVERYday is an excuse to bake! ;-)
By The Other jack
February 19, 2009 8:55 AM | Link to this
bruno
Bruno - “So, who is going to run the Peachtree Road Race with me this year?? It’s getting tiresome to be the only W2W rep out there. How about you, TOJ??
Can I bring my bike?
By USinUK
February 19, 2009 8:56 AM | Link to this
TOJ -
google it. you can find it pretty much everywhere.
“No Drama Obama Attorney General is calling us a nation of cowards for not talking more about race.”
??? what’s wrong with what he said? I think it often IS the elephant in the room (of course, not the W2W room, but you know what I mean)
By USinUK
February 19, 2009 9:00 AM | Link to this
“Looks like this is not going to be a Karen Carpenter kind of day.”
are you sure you’re not up for another head-banging rendition of Mr. Postman???
“Yep that and the Attorney General calling us a nation of cowards is both over the line”
not even in the same state - much less the same zip code
By Gale
February 19, 2009 9:02 AM | Link to this
A chimp may as well have written the stimulous package since the legislators probably never read it before voting. Do we all forget that Reagan was frequently compared unfavorably with Bonzo, his early costar? Ease up on the racism. Ok, I am an idealistic aquarian. But I did not take the cartoon as racist. (The flying chimp cartoon may have been. I didn’t see that one. I have started hearing complaints about Obama treating Air Force One as a taxi.)
Re: Holder’s accusation of cowardice. Is it any surprise Americans don’t want to discuss racism? When a white person criticizes a black person they are instantly labeled racist. Both races need to move past that. Both sides need to listen more.
By Gandalf, the White!
February 19, 2009 9:04 AM | Link to this
“The most terrifying words in the English langauge are: I’m from the government and I’m here to help.” Ronald Reagan
By Gale
February 19, 2009 9:05 AM | Link to this
USinUK, please enlighten me. When you say “cereal”, what do you mean? I have often wondered.
By Gale
February 19, 2009 9:07 AM | Link to this
USinUK, Please enlighten me. When you say “cereal”, what do you mean? I have often wondered. “tumbleweeds” is also in the category of comments I just don’t get.
By The Other jack
February 19, 2009 9:10 AM | Link to this
USinUK
I saw it. It was offensive. I am appalled that anyone would dare to make an offensive parody about our president, just like you guys were so appalled at how the horribly offensive cartoons about Bush were so far over the line and then how all you guys stood together and raised such a fuss about how offensive a lot of the cartoons and parodies were about Sarah Palen.
I saw racial cartoons about Bush. I saw some of the most vile crap I have ever seen said about anyone, but that seemed to not only be OK, but a matter of freedom of speech.
Will you guys ever understand that Obama deserves the same respect by the Republicans as you guys gave Bush?
Let me say that again: Will you guys ever understand that Obama deserves the same respect by the Republicans as you guys gave Bush?
Your side set the precedents and no one here seemed to mind but this is over the line? The Democrats have lived over the line for the past eight years, so just get over it.
By The Other jack
February 19, 2009 9:14 AM | Link to this
Gale
Bravo. You get it.
USinUK
I’m watching FOX News and they are teasing a story about the postal service and guess what they were playing in the background? LOL
By USinUK
February 19, 2009 9:14 AM | Link to this
Gale -
“Is it any surprise Americans don’t want to discuss racism? When a white person criticizes a black person they are instantly labeled racist. Both races need to move past that. Both sides need to listen more.”
funny - I heard the quote and I immediately thought of how Cosby was attacked when he dared criticize the “less industrious” segments of the black society. I didn’t hear Holder as criticizing whites, I heard him criticize everyone for not being able to have a frank and honest discussion. (remember the shock when Chris Rock first did his N—- vs. Black People routine?)
By USinUK
February 19, 2009 9:16 AM | Link to this
sorry - a really bad habit I picked up from my nephews … “cereal” = serious.
(are you cereal? oh, I’m SO cereal)
By JokesOn
February 19, 2009 9:19 AM | Link to this
Does it not matter that he said the american people on many fronts have been cowards? Or is it now acceptable to remove all qualifications in statements in order to make them black/white?
By USinUK
February 19, 2009 9:22 AM | Link to this
TOJ -
“I’m watching FOX News and they are teasing a story about the postal service and guess what they were playing in the background? LOL”
NO WAY!!!
(I’ll take that as a lesson: never underestimate the power of Karen Carpenter)
By Frustrated
February 19, 2009 9:27 AM | Link to this
Cereal=seriously…at least, that is what I mean when I say it on occassion….
By USinUK
February 19, 2009 9:27 AM | Link to this
TOJ -
“I saw it. It was offensive. I am appalled that anyone would dare to make an offensive parody about our president, just like you guys were so appalled at how the horribly offensive cartoons about Bush were so far over the line and then how all you guys stood together and raised such a fuss about how offensive a lot of the cartoons and parodies were about Sarah Palen.”
all WHAT cartoons that showed Bush being shot?
all WHAT cartoons that showed Sarah Palin being shot?
“Will you guys ever understand that Obama deserves the same respect by the Republicans as you guys gave Bush?”
portraying a black man as a primate goes beyond “disrespect”. way beyond. then, to add that primate being shot multiple times by 2 white cops …
By The Other jack
February 19, 2009 9:31 AM | Link to this
USinUK
It wasn’t Karen, it was the original and they also just teased the same story with Return to Sender by Elvis.
By JokesOn
February 19, 2009 9:31 AM | Link to this
I guess it is also acceptable to insult someone regardless of their actual character. I mean hey, if I correct joe on an err he made and it embarrasses him, he can can embarrass me for no reason what-so-ever. It is this type of thinking that we expect from children, not adults.
Insulting purely for insulting sake debunks any notion of honest discussion.
Dog, You posted a remark about how men find male/male anal sex gross. What say you about the desire so many men exhibit regarding having anal with a female. It is, after all, the same anatomical part and function…
By Frustrated
February 19, 2009 9:34 AM | Link to this
portraying a black man as a primate goes beyond “disrespect”. way beyond. then, to add that primate being shot multiple times by 2 white cops …
Yeah, no I didn’t see that much into it… I saw their comment as referring to Obama as a Chimpanzee…..but as far as the white cops being the shooter and all, I associated that with the actual incident over the chimp… Not white men vs. black president
By JokesOn
February 19, 2009 9:35 AM | Link to this
“portraying a black man as a primate goes beyond “disrespect”. way beyond. then, to add that primate being shot multiple times by 2 white cops”
Even trying to justify that is appaling! No matter what came before it, although nothing comparable has, it is still sickening.
By The Other jack
February 19, 2009 9:39 AM | Link to this
USinUk
Do you REALLY want to get into a battle of offensive cartoons? They made a MOVIE about Bush being shot and liberals went crazy over it. Lucavitch or however the hell you spell his name drew a monkey-like parody of Bush every single day for the past eight years.
Girl, I just don’t think you guys will ever get it. These are the rules that YOUR party set.
I’m offended by all of it. I was extremely offended by 99% of the parodies about Bush. Were you? There was never any sort of limits to the offensiveness so you are saying that now there should be. Why is that? Why do democrats think that they can reset the rules when they are in the cross hairs? (Figuratively speaking)
Does it anger you? Does it hurt your feelings? Maybe now you will begin to understand what over half the country has felt for the past 8 years.
By USinUK
February 19, 2009 9:40 AM | Link to this
TOJ -
“It wasn’t Karen, it was the original and they also just teased the same story with Return to Sender by Elvis.”
ohthankgod. I can cope with Return to Sender in my head … I’ve had “a card or a letter … the sooner the better” bopping around now for DAYS!!! (return to sendah … adress unknown … no such numbah … no such zone … )
By JokesOn
February 19, 2009 9:49 AM | Link to this
Hmmm.
So calling a white man a monkey vs calling a black male a monkey is the same? Try that out and let us know how it works for you.
By The Other jack
February 19, 2009 9:53 AM | Link to this
USinUk
Ever been to Graceland? It’s really just a creepy little house. I was shocked by how little it is. And the neighborhood aropund there was in pretty bad shape.
I liked Elvis. My mother recently sent me a bunch of old 8mm flim that my uncle had shot. I had it transferred to video and there is a shot of me when I was about 6 years old singing Hound Dog.
By The Other jack
February 19, 2009 9:55 AM | Link to this
JokesON
Should anyone be called a monkey?
By USinUK
February 19, 2009 10:00 AM | Link to this
TOJ -
“Lucavitch or however the hell you spell his name drew a monkey-like parody of Bush every single day for the past eight years”
Luckovich drew him with big ears - bunny ears not a monkey. And he drew Clinton with a butt for a nose for 8 years.
This wasn’t drawing Obama with exaggerated features, this was drawing A CHIMP - not Obama with ears or exaggerated limbs - there’s a world of difference. Ask Howard Cosell about comparisons to monkeys.
“Girl, I just don’t think you guys will ever get it. These are the rules that YOUR party set. “
TOJ, your party just sent out a CD called “Obama the Magic Negro”. Your party just sent out a mailer of “Obama Bucks” featuring pictures of Obama surrounded by watermelons and KFC, and “Obama Waffles” with more racial stereotypes were featured at the “Value Voters Summit”. Your party had a couple of its members (including one from GA) calling Obama “uppity”. Do you really want to go down this road???
“They made a MOVIE about Bush being shot and liberals went crazy over it.”
really - like Hillary Clinton saying it was despicable?? that kind of crazy over it??
By Frustrated
February 19, 2009 10:03 AM | Link to this
TOJ,
I’ve been to Graceland….and yes, it is kind of creepy.. But I did get a rush thinking that I was wondering around the same place that Elvis once stood…
But I was disappointed..for whatever reason, I was hoping to get to see more…that and the fact of the whole graveyard in the back…that was kind of creepy….and the fans standing around sobbing…..
By Frustrated
February 19, 2009 10:11 AM | Link to this
Jokes—-
If you call a male a dog, it can mean several things….he’s a player, he is gross, he is green with lust, you are referring to him as your “friend”(“yo, dog”) etc…
If you call a female a dog, it automatically means she is ugly.
Different meanings…both can demonstrate disrespectful meanings. So as your question put it, no it isn’t the same thing, but they are still inappropriate.
By Lyrazel
February 19, 2009 10:11 AM | Link to this
Political cartoons are to evoke response—and that one did. While I can’t understand the motive of using someone’s personal tragedy to make a political statement—I think it represented Congress & House for their monkeying about with the stimulus bill.
By JokesOn
February 19, 2009 10:17 AM | Link to this
“Should anyone be called a monkey?”
Not the point…stay on topic.
The word that sheds light on this is connotation: Calling a white guy a monkey = you are stupid
Calling a black guy a monkey = you are sub-human and has history (porch monkey for example)
You are taking the position that, although insulting, they are the same. Defend that please.
By The Other jack
February 19, 2009 10:18 AM | Link to this
USinUk
I’m offended by all of it. I was offended when his current vice president had called him an articulate young man. I don’t ever remember a white person’s qualifications as articulate.
And get your facts straight, it wasn’t my party that did those things, it was people who might vote Republican. I just think it is funny that you guys think that there shoud be a line drawn now on offensive parodies when that idea would have been laughable to you for the past eight years.
When you can prove to me that Bush has never been called a White MF or a White devil, then I will say that this is more over the line than anything else.
By USinUK
February 19, 2009 10:20 AM | Link to this
TOJ -
“Ever been to Graceland? It’s really just a creepy little house. I was shocked by how little it is. And the neighborhood aropund there was in pretty bad shape”
I LOVED Graceland - especially the Evolution of the Jumpsuit section! My favorite factoid that I gleaned: if you took every album that Elvis made and laid it side by side, it would circle the globe twice. Now, that’s cool.
I kind of liked the small size of the house - it reminded me of when the Big Hollywood Stars of the 1950s used to have normal-sized houses in Beverly Hills, as opposed to the multi-million-dollar complexes (complete with salon, bowling alley and roller-derby rink).
The only think that creeped me out is that he was buried in the back yard like a family pet.
By JokesOn
February 19, 2009 10:22 AM | Link to this
“So as your question put it, no it isn’t the same thing, but they are still inappropriate.”
Never said either was appropriate. Now explain to me how saying “the b!tch was in heat, so we had to have her spade” as a caption above a female in a cartoon is not only insulting, but degrading on a level that is more appalling than your dog reference above a male.
By Gale
February 19, 2009 10:25 AM | Link to this
9:34 I agree. I related the dead chimp to the real chimp story and merely being an opportunity to dis the bailout bill. I don’t really see how anyone would associate the chimp with Obama. It isn’t like Obama personally drafted a 1200 page bill.
By Frustrated
February 19, 2009 10:25 AM | Link to this
Did anyone read about the Swiss Bank giving up their “secret files”????
Should be interesting to see who is on the list of tax evasion…
By The Other jack
February 19, 2009 10:27 AM | Link to this
Frustrated
I thought the Jungle Room was funny. And we got there two days before his birthday so the place was crawling with crazies. Lots of guys dressed like Elvis so that really added to the weirdness.
That backyard grave yard was really strange and people crying their eyes out. And why? Everybody knows that he is still alive and working in a Dairy Delite in Wausau, Wisconsin.
Otis Reading is buried in his family home’s front yard. Big tomb looking thing.
I don’t care about where I am buried as long as I am given that Viking Funeral where vestal virgins shoot flaming arrows from the shore to light my funeral ship. If vestal virgins can’t be found, the USC Cheerleading squad will work just fine. (Have them wear the white outfits)
By The Other jack
February 19, 2009 10:32 AM | Link to this
JokesON
It’s exactly the point, unless you believe that only Black people have the right to be offended. Is that what you are saying?
USinUK
I wonder who gets the money from his album sales?
Hey and you and Lyrazel need to start getting along because it will be up to the two of you to arrange this Viking Funeral thing with the Vestal virgins for me. And the way this new business is going, you don’t have much time.
By JokesOn
February 19, 2009 10:32 AM | Link to this
“When you can prove to me that Bush has never been called a White MF or a White devil, then I will say that this is more over the line than anything else.”
If published in a nation wide magazine or paper, I would have a problem with the staff. I guess some people are more discerning than others.
That is like saying if I can find one person that calls you an offensive name, it justifies a publication in using a racial slur. Kind of reaching in your argument.
By Mara
February 19, 2009 10:34 AM | Link to this
Gale - tumbleweed
have you ever seen a video depicting a deserted town, like an old-timey western ghost town? See that tumbleweed rolling across the screen there? LOL. “tumbleweed” is supposed to evoke a vision of desolation and abandonment.
tumbleweed/vulture/etc = boy, is it dead on the forum today…
By USinUK
February 19, 2009 10:35 AM | Link to this
TOJ -
“it wasn’t my party that did those things, it was people who might vote Republican”
the person who sent the CD was one of the people who ran for leadership of the Republican National Committee.
the watermelon “Obama Bucks” was a California GOP party mailing.
Rep Lyn Westmoreland called Obama “uppity”
Republicans - not voters who lean Republican.
“When you can prove to me that Bush has never been called a White MF or a White devil”
I can guarantee you that he has never been called that by a national newspaper like the NY Post. Nor have I ever seen a right-leaning blog calling a Democrat out for that kind of language. In fact, the only person I know of to call Bush anything close was Hugo “El Presidente for Life” Chavez, and even then, he called him the devil, not necessarily a white one.
By The Other jack
February 19, 2009 10:41 AM | Link to this
USinUK
I went to Hollywood a few years ago and we drove up into Beverly Hills. I must have been in the wrong part because I couldn’t find a single big house. They were all very modern (1950-1960s) looking things all bunched together. Lots of really, really nice cars and great looking women taking walks, but nothing even as big as Graceland.
The Beverly Hillbillies house is still there somewhere and i have read that it really is a Beverly Hills Estate that was owned by one of the producers of the show. Of course the house in the show was mostly a back lot set. But the opening of the show and a few scenes used the real house.
I love that stuff.
By JokesOn
February 19, 2009 10:43 AM | Link to this
“It’s exactly the point, unless you believe that only Black people have the right to be offended. Is that what you are saying?”
Stop trying to change the point, even by insisting that your new point is the point.
“Your side set the precedents and no one here seemed to mind but this is over the line?”
Different lines are what we are saying and you are arguing against. Both are over the line of insulting (if your examples were even published); but only one is over the line of being a degrading/sub-human remark.
You are stating that the insults are equal. Back that up with sound reasoning please.
By Mara
February 19, 2009 10:44 AM | Link to this
TOJ - “Viking Funeral”
a Beau Geste referance?! Wow. I luv that movie! Would have an ACTUAL dog at your feet, or just a ‘dog’?
By Bruno
February 19, 2009 10:44 AM | Link to this
There was never any sort of limits to the offensiveness so you are saying that now there should be. Why is that? Why do democrats think that they can reset the rules when they are in the cross hairs?
TOJ, I’m going to side with you on this one. First of all, it’s not clear from the cartoon that the chimp = Obama. It could represent Congress, or the Democrats. Secondly, since when have we started imposing editorial restraints on cartoonists??? I’m not going to comb through all of Luckovich’s cartoons, but I’m pretty sure that he has associated Republicans with the KKK in the past. Finally, I don’t think of Obama as being “black”. He is 1/2 black and 1/2 white. While perhaps this makes him “black” according to some archaic racial classification laws, I don’t see him that way.
If you recall, TOJ, before Obama was elected, I predicted that there would be a heightened sense of racial sensitivity rather than a diminished sense. I won’t be surprised if at some point there will be “hate language” legislation that makes it a crime to use certain words.
By USinUK
February 19, 2009 10:45 AM | Link to this
Gale -
“I don’t really see how anyone would associate the chimp with Obama. It isn’t like Obama personally drafted a 1200 page bill.”
2 reasons: 1, as mentioned earlier, there’s a very long racist history of comparing black people to primates and 2, the print version had the cartoon in tandem with a picture of Obama signing the bill.
By American Woman
February 19, 2009 10:52 AM | Link to this
I admit it. I did refer to President Bush in chimp-related terms. This had more to do with his personality and style of articulating (heh), and the level of intelligence he displayed in interviews, than with his physical resemblence to a chimp, although that comparison was not a huge stretch when observing his body language.
The website smirkingchimp dot com, has an article about this controversy today. Here’s an excerpt:
“One of the reasons that the country is afraid to talk openly about race is because people are afraid that they are going to be called racists or charged with insensitivity for what they say (or in this case draw). We have to start giving these people a pass even if we suspect that they did not have the best of intentions.”
“Why? Because if we yell racism every time there is a question about race then people will clam up. Does that mean that nothing should be considered racist anymore or that we shouldn’t challenge people on what they have said or done? No, of course not. But it does mean that we should change the way we talk about these issues.”
Anyway, for those who are truly interested in evolving (heh) through and past the issue of race in our society, the article provides some thoughtful insight.
By The Other jack
February 19, 2009 10:54 AM | Link to this
USinUK
Again, I just don’t understand this desire to draw the line when there was no line for the past eight years. I wish it were all civil and wonderful and we could all join hands and sing, but that has not been the way Washington has worked in my lifetime. And please consider the movies that have been made targeting Bush. Do you support the things that Lard butt Micheal Moore has said about Bush? We can keep giving examples all day, but that just proves that to try and put civility standards on American political parody is just too far overdue. Maybe when the next president is a Republican, your party can teach us all about civility. Do you think that will happen?
We have all been here long before Bush was replaced. You guys never criticized anyone for saying anything about Bush. Don’t expect me to do what you guys refused to do. Was it over the line? What line? That line has been erased for quite a few years.
One more time. I don’t like any of it, but that is the climate that has existed for years and surely you aren’t trying to justify the things that were said about Bush. (And yes, I will stop calling you Shirley)
By Gale
February 19, 2009 10:56 AM | Link to this
Thanks Mara.
“buried in the back yard like a family pet.” It isn’t the same thing. I once visited my father’s family graveyard in Kentucky. I think it would be neat to be buried among generations of ancestors. I would think the practice came from the clanishness of the mountain people.
By USinUK
February 19, 2009 10:57 AM | Link to this
TOJ -
“I wonder who gets the money from his album sales?”
you didn’t get the schpiel when you went??? when Elvis died, Priscilla set up a trust that licenses ALL uses of Elvis or his likeness - with all the proceeds eventually going to Lisa Marie.
(an aside … the both of them have had WAY too much work done lately … eeeesh)
Now, a few years ago, the entire Elvis estate was sold - I’m assuming that included licensing fees, as well, but I don’t know.
years ago - way back when I was still living in Atlanta, so pre-1996, there was a story that whatever the trust is that licenses his likeness was going after people who produce Velvet Elvis paintings because they hadn’t paid for the privelege. True story.
Me, I’m all about Vivaaaaaaaa Las Vegas! (And, yes, Ann Margaret was seriously hot).
On a side note, TELL ME that you didn’t miss Sun Studio when you were in Memphis. That place gave me chills, knowing the people who recorded there.
“I must have been in the wrong part because I couldn’t find a single big house. They were all very modern (1950-1960s) looking things all bunched together. Lots of really, really nice cars and great looking women taking walks, but nothing even as big as Graceland.”
that’s exactly what I mean - they were normal Colonial or rambler or Spanish hacienda type houses - nothing huge and ostentatious. I think all the current celebs live outside of BH, “in the hills” or whatever.
By Mara
February 19, 2009 11:01 AM | Link to this
Re: NY Post cartoon — personally, I find it offensive when ANY cartoonist attempts to depict violence as amusing or fodder for satire.
And of course Delonas is no stranger to controversy. He’s the one that drew the cartoon depicting the two firefighters at Ground Zero, one kneeling next to his dying comrade and saying “Goodbye dear friend. By the way, is your wife free Tuesday?” And it’s not as if the NY Post has any kind of reputation to worry about. Everybody knows it’s the MSM’s version of the National Enquirer.
By Bruno
February 19, 2009 11:01 AM | Link to this
Dog, You posted a remark about how men find male/male anal sex gross. What say you about the desire so many men exhibit regarding having anal with a female. It is, after all, the same anatomical part and function…
JokesOn—Welcome back, glad to see you. As for my post, I was just echoing what most people feel on a visceral level regarding male-male sex. That doesn’t mean that it is a logical or correct stance to take, or that one day the majority of people won’t feel differently. Apparently the ancient Greeks didn’t find it offensive. I was simply explaining to USinUK that since so many people (and not men in particular), find the the thought of male/male sex to be so gross, that there isn’t a strong political impetus to equate homosexual marriage with heterosexual unions and to provide all the concomitant benefits.
As for heterosexuals engaging in anal sex, I don’t particularly find that appealing either. I’ve ridden the Hershey Highway a few times, but didn’t really like it due to the sight/smell of fecal matter. Are any of you ladies willing to speak up in favor of anal sex???
By The Other jack
February 19, 2009 11:07 AM | Link to this
Mara
I never saw the movie. I have to check that out. My high school mascot was the Vikings. We had a history class where we learned that Viking leaders were really honored like that and it has been a running joke with me all of my life. Damn, somebody stole the idea.
Bruno
No. It’s racist. It’s horrible. There’s no doubt about what is being said, but you are right in that Bush has been associated with the KKK in the mainstream so many times. Luckavitch has given him a tail more than once.
The point I am making is that it is continuing to escalate. But Nixon was treated horribly. So was Ford, Carter, and Reagan was crucified on a daily basis, Bush One was treated like crap, Clinton had a bullseye on his forehead and GW was treated on a whole new level of disrespect. But now the democrats think that Obama should be left alone because he is half Black. It would be funny if it weren’t so sad.
I think that they all should be treated with respect, but as much as I try, I am not the King and my word means nothing.
By Gandalf, the White!
February 19, 2009 11:08 AM | Link to this
That eldest of 8th Graders, (who at Hogwarts would remain a 2nd year in the house of Slytherin for several years) and Barry can be compared to Chimps as they both mimic grown up behaivor! We are all cowards! What a crock of dung beetle food! WE are so doomed by the Dumbassi tribe leader Barry Nobama!
By USinUK
February 19, 2009 11:08 AM | Link to this
TOJ -
“Do you support the things that Lard butt Micheal Moore has said about Bush?”
I’ve seen 3 of his docs (Roger and Me, Bowling for Columbine - neither of which said anything about Bush - and Farenheit 9/11). You may not have liked Farenheit 9/11, but there was nothing in that doc that was even remotely like calling Bush a primate - and then shooting him.
“Don’t expect me to do what you guys refused to do. Was it over the line? What line? That line has been erased for quite a few years.”
you know what - calling someone a name - say, socialist - because of their actions is one thing. calling them a primate because of their race is completely different.
Bruno -
“It could represent Congress, or the Democrats.”
riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight. of course, it happened to run next to a picture of Obama signing the legislation, but the cartoonist really meant the Congress. not to mention, everyone both here and in the media referred to the bill as OBAMA’S stimulus package, not the Congress’s.
be careful when you stretch that far … you could “do yourself a mischief”.
By Gale
February 19, 2009 11:09 AM | Link to this
USinUK 10:45 I still don’t agree. Possibly there was editorializing on the part of the editor for placement. But both items are political in nature. They would naturally both appear on the political page. That said, I know I do not always see an insensitive racial comment because I am not in that club. I have not been on the receiving side all of my life. I have admitted that. It is the same reason I am sometimes sensitive to comments about women or homosexuality. I come here to learn and discuss.
By American Woman
February 19, 2009 11:13 AM | Link to this
And yet, making reference to a hygeine product by it’s actual name is um… “nasty?” So, while the normal functions of the female body are too disgusting to mention, graphic sexual (TMI) confessions of men are not. Got it. So glad I got those pledges to ignore me!!!! ACK!
By USinUK
February 19, 2009 11:13 AM | Link to this
Gale -
“I once visited my father’s family graveyard in Kentucky. I think it would be neat to be buried among generations of ancestors. I would think the practice came from the clanishness of the mountain people.”
was the family plot in a church or was it, settler-style, off on its own?
By USinUK
February 19, 2009 11:18 AM | Link to this
Gale -
“I still don’t agree.”
then get out.
;-)
“I come here to learn and discuss.”
isn’t this the room for the argument? (http:// www.mindspring.com/ ~mfpatton/sketch.htm)
By The Other jack
February 19, 2009 11:21 AM | Link to this
USinUk
We were there for a shoot. It was a country music Music Video. We just needed a shot of the artist coming out of the front door so we were in and out in a very short time. We couldn’t light or lay down dolly tracks or use a Jib. I literally ran through the place. I couldn’t believe that they were letting us get the shot. The producer is the old time most famous producer in Atlanta (actually it was his son) so I am sure that he had connections. I did a bunch of their second tier videos for several years. I did get to meet Jerry Reed who was a dead ringer for my dad. I didn’t get to produce his video. I guess he wasn’t as impressed as I was.
I have been to Memphis so many times and I have never been to SUN. I know. I’ll have my next GF punish me. I’m just always working and always running.
I have heard that studio is haunted as hell. I’ll bet we are one dimension away from hearing some incredible rock n roll.
By Mara
February 19, 2009 11:24 AM | Link to this
speaking of ‘eternal resting places’, I want the Roddenberry treatment when I die. Cremation followed by space burial seems very appropriate.
“I am made from the dust of the stars, and the oceans flow in my veins”
By Gandalf, the White!
February 19, 2009 11:24 AM | Link to this
We have one of those settler style grave yards in our neighbor hood! Wierd, they put a subdivision on the old homestead and built the last remaining living relative up in a small nice new house right next to that graveyard. Race is a dead issue in America, no longer relavent. Now it cultural practices that keep people down. Don’t learn or do home work, GHETTO! HAVE babies at 13, GHETTO, TRAILER PARK. Reach out to these groups, motivate them to change, not force them, and we shall see real results.
By JokesOn
February 19, 2009 11:25 AM | Link to this
Once again, I challenge any of you who are stating that there is no difference to use “monkey” in a phrase directed towards a group of guys: Two being black and the other 4-5 being white and see what transpires.
Really. Just say “why are you guys hanging with the monkeys” and tell us what happens.
For comparison sake, do the same and say “those dogs” instead…
TOJ, On a side note, didn’t you claim that no one can dictate what another finds offensive just a week ago? Kind of also goes against your point. Pick a side.
By Gandalf, the White!
February 19, 2009 11:26 AM | Link to this
“Peace is not absence of conflict, it is the ability to handle conflict by peaceful means.” Ronald Reagan
By Gandalf, the White!
February 19, 2009 11:26 AM | Link to this
“Peace is not absence of conflict, it is the ability to handle conflict by peaceful means.” Ronald Reagan
By USinUK
February 19, 2009 11:29 AM | Link to this
TOJ -
“I have been to Memphis so many times and I have never been to SUN. I know. I’ll have my next GF punish me. I’m just always working and always running.”
(gasping) YOU haven’t been to Sun??? (picking up jaw from floor)
power down your computer right now. pack up the Monster Cat. get in the car. go.
or wait until the Memphis in May festival and go then.
but, seriously. go. they play original recordings. ORIGINAL RECORDINGS. it’s. just. I mean. OMG.
By The Other jack
February 19, 2009 11:30 AM | Link to this
USinUK
you know what - calling someone a name - say, socialist - because of their actions is one thing. calling them a primate because of their race is completely different.
Are you saying that was the worst thing done to Bush? Come on, girl. This is a nasty political landscape.
AW
Surprisingly enough, I’m with you on this one. I have all kinds of opinions about what they are discussing, but I’m not posting it here.
Bruno
C’mon, Pal. Let’s be the good guys here. That’s disgusting.
By Gandalf, the White!
February 19, 2009 11:31 AM | Link to this
NATION OF COWARDS! Because of the racial composition of our BBQ? What a moron! I bet he can’t even make a boston butt fall of the bone tender! WE have folks of color over to our BBQ’s but not the TOGA parties, they just don’t understand the whole sheet thing!
By Gale
February 19, 2009 11:35 AM | Link to this
USinUK, The family plot would be, I guess, settler-style. The family is dotted all through that small area on very small plots. I think the most recent grave was at least 30 years old (maybe 30 years ago) and that was a child. We had to trapse up a mountain path to get there. I was reminded of a movie where the family carried a coffin up a winding mountain path. I suspect most “back yards” were occupied with vegetables.
By The Other jack
February 19, 2009 11:37 AM | Link to this
Mara
I have a thing about flying. Birds are so lucky. i have hours of footage of a neighborhood barn owl that likes to hunt at dusk and all kinds of shots of local Red Tailed Hawks that just love our buffet of tree rats (squirrels) and chipmunks. They will just hover way up there on currents and then dive down at about a million miles an hour.
Once we leave our bodies, it really doesn’t matter. I just hope i get to fly in my next life.
By USinUK
February 19, 2009 11:38 AM | Link to this
Mara -
“I want the Roddenberry treatment when I die. Cremation followed by space burial seems very appropriate.”
VERY cool idea.
I’m friends with the guy who was Diane’s boyfriend (Diane who used to be the W2W columnist on the left) - he and her fam did a sea “living memorial” where you put the ashes in some kind of concrete thing for coral to grow on. I thought that was nice, too.
me, I’m boring - half my ashes scattered on the Thames, the other half on the Potomac. nothing flashy. at my memorial, I want Eva Cassidy’s version of “Imagine” played, to be followed by a major food fest - southern barbecue style!!! (pulled pork sammiches, cole slow, baked beans and banananana puddin’)
By The Other jack
February 19, 2009 11:40 AM | Link to this
JokesOn
I would rather not pick a side. I would rather recognize that both sides are wrong. You should try it sometimes.
By Gale
February 19, 2009 11:44 AM | Link to this
Somedays, Gandalf, you are just too funny.
By The Other jack
February 19, 2009 11:45 AM | Link to this
USinUK
I may take a road trip this spring. I used to love to take my GF all over the South to different historical things. We even spent the weekend in Jimmy Carter’s B&B in Plains. i think about her every day.
I may get up there this spring. i’m considering driving to Minn. to see my kid and that is almost on the way.
By Gandalf, the White!
February 19, 2009 11:45 AM | Link to this
pulled pork is from Boston Butt, that attorney general couldn’t do it, but I can. Let me know you die expat and I’ll fire up the Weber, and invite some people of color over as well, no dumbassi though, so that eldest of 8th graders and Barry have to stay away.
By Laugh of the Week
February 19, 2009 11:46 AM | Link to this
explaining tumbleweeds
Gila Bend exit, I-8. roadrunners as well.
By Bruno
February 19, 2009 11:47 AM | Link to this
of course, it happened to run next to a picture of Obama signing the legislation, but the cartoonist really meant the Congress. not to mention, everyone both here and in the media referred to the bill as OBAMA’S stimulus package, not the Congress’s.
Possibly there was editorializing on the part of the editor for placement. But both items are political in nature. They would naturally both appear on the political page.
USinUK, I agree with Gale on this. I’m not a reader of the NYP, so didn’t see the full context, but I think that you’re reading something into this that isn’t there. From all of your angst/hypersensitivity regarding race, I’m guessing that you haven’t spent a lot of time with black folks. For many years, I worked in all-black neighborhoods in which I was the only white guy around for miles and miles. I’m currently dating a black girl. As such, let me let you in on a little secret: Black people are at least as prejudiced as white people, if not more. They don’t apologize for calling white people names, nor even apologize for using the “N” word themselves. While I’m certainly not promoting the use of racially charged language, I think that you are being unrealistic here. If you’re going to go on and on about how great it is that we have a “Black President”, then you have to expect the flip side of the argument to be discussed as well.
By USinUK
February 19, 2009 11:48 AM | Link to this
Jokes -
“Really. Just say “why are you guys hanging with the monkeys” and tell us what happens.”
am I the only person here who remembers the Kentucky Fried Movie?
google Rex Kramer, Danger Seeker for a preview of what would happen if you did the above.
TOJ -
“Are you saying that was the worst thing done to Bush? Come on, girl. This is a nasty political landscape.”
um. no one ever called Bush a socialist.
By USinUK
February 19, 2009 11:52 AM | Link to this
Gale -
“The family plot would be, I guess, settler-style. The family is dotted all through that small area on very small plots. I think the most recent grave was at least 30 years old (maybe 30 years ago) and that was a child. We had to trapse up a mountain path to get there. I was reminded of a movie where the family carried a coffin up a winding mountain path. I suspect most “back yards” were occupied with vegetables.”
I can totally see why you’d want to be laid to rest there - it sounds like exactly what a family plot should be. I can’t stand modern cemetaries - everything is so … sterile. so uniform and tidy. it’s like being buried on a golf course. yuk.
By The Other jack
February 19, 2009 11:54 AM | Link to this
Gale
My family is spread all over the mountains. I remember Uncle Roy dieing when I was a kid. He laid in state in their old farmhouse and everyone stayed up for a couple of days. That is a mountain wake. I remember that it was a very hot summer and he started smelling toward the end. They carried the casket up a long and twisting path up to the family plot at the top of the mountain. I couldn’t have been older than 6 or 7. I remember the pal bearers would swap out because it was such a long walk.
Damn. I’m old.
By Bruno
February 19, 2009 11:55 AM | Link to this
C’mon, Pal. Let’s be the good guys here. That’s disgusting.
TOJ—I have to give you a big round of applause for your improved outlook here on the blog. As for me, I’m getting a little fed up with all of the liberal double-standards.
I didn’t mean to gross you out with the graphic sexual references, but at least it was in context with the discussion.
By JokesOn
February 19, 2009 11:56 AM | Link to this
“I would rather not pick a side. I would rather recognize that both sides are wrong. You should try it sometimes.”
Read back and you would see that I did in fact say both would be inappropriate. So, you sarcastic reply is wrong. Bzzz….try again.
Maybe I would rather recognise that there are differences in insults and some are over the line of being gratuitously degrading, that is something you should try some time. The world is not a binary place….it is made up of a full spectrum. Some things being better/worse than others. But, your dislike of bush being criticized has blinded you of that in this situation.
Try my test of insults and prove to us that both outcomes are the same and I will retract my point that they are drastically different.
By The Other jack
February 19, 2009 11:58 AM | Link to this
USinUK
um. no one ever called Bush a socialist.
No. But he was called a NAZI all the time and remember the translation of the name: National Socialist Workers Party. And why someone would call a Republican a member of a socialist workers party, I will never know. Sounds like a union to me.
By USinUK
February 19, 2009 12:00 PM | Link to this
Bruno -
“I’m currently dating a black girl. As such, let me let you in on a little secret: Black people are at least as prejudiced as white people, if not more … If you’re going to go on and on about how great it is that we have a “Black President”, then you have to expect the flip side of the argument to be discussed as well.”
first of all, next time you go into the black neighborhood, try asking them what they feel about 1) the image of a monkey or chimp being associated with / used as a representation of a black man and 2) the image of that monkey being shot repeatedly by 2 white cops.
I don’t really understand your second statement - what exactly is the flip side of the argument about how great it is that we have a black president?
By Bruno
February 19, 2009 12:03 PM | Link to this
um. no one ever called Bush a socialist.
I did, the minute he attempted to nationalize our banking system.
By Bruno
February 19, 2009 12:05 PM | Link to this
Maybe I would rather recognise that there are differences in insults and some are over the line of being gratuitously degrading
JokesOn, it sounds like that you are advocating a double standard here. I thought that you were against double standards.
By Bruno
February 19, 2009 12:09 PM | Link to this
Cremation followed by space burial seems very appropriate.
I’m assuming that all of you here are organ donors. When I die, I want all of my good parts to be ripped out and given to someone who can use them. Whoever gets my blood will be in for a good buzz…..
By USinUK
February 19, 2009 12:14 PM | Link to this
TOJ -
“No. But he was called a NAZI all the time and remember the translation of the name: National Socialist Workers Party. And why someone would call a Republican a member of a socialist workers party, I will never know. Sounds like a union to me.”
um. waitaminnit. YOU are criticizing people for calling someone else a Nazi??? would you like to rethink that?
secondly, in the case of the MoveOn contest, they didn’t even consider the Hitler ad and disqualified it, but were tarred for even receiving the ad in the mail.
let me be clear - it’s one thing to criticize a president for what he has done (or not done) - and I have no problem with open season on that. have a ball. however, to compare a black man, president or not, to a primate is beyond the pale.
By Bruno
February 19, 2009 12:14 PM | Link to this
I don’t really understand your second statement - what exactly is the flip side of the argument about how great it is that we have a black president?
Are you just being sarcastic, USinUK?
I’m going to have to put you on the spot and ask you how many times that you’ve had black people in your home. You seem to be filled with “white man’s guilt”.
By USinUK
February 19, 2009 12:16 PM | Link to this
Bruno -
“I did, the minute he attempted to nationalize our banking system.”
haahaa .. I stand corrected ;-)
“I’m assuming that all of you here are organ donors. When I die, I want all of my good parts to be ripped out and given to someone who can use them.”
absolutely - I’m not going to need them - I’d rather they be put to good use.
By JokesOn
February 19, 2009 12:20 PM | Link to this
“JokesOn, it sounds like that you are advocating a double standard here. I thought that you were against double standards.”
How so? By stating that there are levels of insults? Please.
By Frustrated
February 19, 2009 12:23 PM | Link to this
Goodness, I go to lunch and come back and we are discussing riding the Hershey Highway??? Bruno, that is gross..
I think I am done for the day.
By Bruno
February 19, 2009 12:25 PM | Link to this
haahaa .. I stand corrected ;-)
I wish that I could laugh along with you on that one, USinUK, but I’m not laughing a bit. 100 years from now, the years 2008-2009 will be pointed to as the moment when the US was flushed down the toilet. I’m serious.
By USinUK
February 19, 2009 12:26 PM | Link to this
Bruno -
“Are you just being sarcastic, USinUK?”
actually, no - not being sarcastic - seriously - I don’t understand what you were saying in that last statement.
“I’m going to have to put you on the spot and ask you how many times that you’ve had black people in your home. You seem to be filled with “white man’s guilt”.”
let’s see … other than one of my closest friends from college, friends from work and my neighbors??? other than them, you’re right, I only allow the lilly-white in my house. the less pigment, the better (that way, I look tan).
By The Other jack
February 19, 2009 12:26 PM | Link to this
bruno
I understand. But somebody came here today to pick a fight (not you) so the discussion was mostly for that reason. He’s still trying to pick a fight and demand that others live down to his standards.
He is getting more and more angry and his posts are getting longer and more demanding so I may split here in a minute. Some probably already have, expecting a peeing contest to break out. It’s not just me being more nice, people are being nice to me so I am being nice back.
There comes a time, when we heed a certain call, when the world must come together as one
There are people dying, And its time to lend a hand to life: the greatest gift of all
We can’t go on. Pretending day by day That someone, somewhere will soon make a change
We are all part of gods great big family. And the truth, you know, love is all we need
We are the world, we are the children We are the ones who make a brighter day So lets start giving
Theres a choice were making Were saving our own lives
Its true well make a better day Just you and me
I meant that to be a little sarcastic, but I just listened to that song and it was actually a hell of a song.
By The Other jack
February 19, 2009 12:29 PM | Link to this
USinUK
um. waitaminnit. YOU are criticizing people for calling someone else a Nazi??? would you like to rethink that?
We are the world
We are the children
COME ON SING IT WITH ME!!
We are the onmes that makes a better day so let’s start giving.
By Bruno
February 19, 2009 12:31 PM | Link to this
How so? By stating that there are levels of insults? Please.
Well, you’ve stated that certain jokes about black folks are off-limits, and that certain jokes about women are off-limits. So, pray tell, what jokes about white men are off-limits, then?? I know that in the past you’ve advanced the argument that because of an “imbalance in power”, that no insult toward a white man carries any real weight. I disagree. Maybe from a “group perspective” there is an imbalance in power, but I don’t think that that extends to individuals.
Goodness, I go to lunch and come back and we are discussing riding the Hershey Highway??? Bruno, that is gross..
Sorry about that, Faithful, but IMO it strikes directly at the heart of why most people don’t equate homosexual unions with heterosexual marriages. Just trying to be honest.
By USinUK
February 19, 2009 12:33 PM | Link to this
please note: I didn’t say anything about crassness.
and that’s all I’m sayin’.
By USinUK
February 19, 2009 12:39 PM | Link to this
TOJ -
“COME ON SING IT WITH ME!!”
eesh. not that song. you might as well ask me to sing “I just called to say I love you” …
to paraphrase Bruno, “100 years from now, that song will be pointed to as the moment when Stevie Wonder’s legendary status was flushed down the toilet. I’m serious.” okay … he’s still a legend, but, MAN, that song is a serious blot.
By American Woman
February 19, 2009 12:40 PM | Link to this
Actually, I referred to President Bush (43) and his staunch defenders (those who refused to question anything he did prior to the 11th-hour massive welfare-bailout of their Wall Street buddies) as “Neo-Fascists,” not Nazis. Just as some of you maintain that government stepping in to save citizens from starving is “socialism,” and offer supporting definitions and examples, I base MY opinion of modern American “Neo-Fascists” on my own observations.
You can google “tenets of fascism” for more info, or read specific Bush-tenet warning signs posted at oldamericancentury dot org slash 14pts dot htm. To be brief, here are the ones I find most disturbing:
2.) Disdain for the Recognition of Human Rights: Because of fear of enemies and the need for security, the people in fascist regimes are persuaded that human rights can be ignored in certain cases because of “need.” The people tend to look the other way or even approve of torture, summary executions, assassinations, long incarcerations of prisoners, etc.
3.) Identification of Enemies/Scapegoats as a Unifying Cause: The people are rallied into a unifying patriotic frenzy over the need to eliminate a perceived common threat or foe: racial, ethnic or religious minorities; liberals; communists; socialists, terrorists, etc. (People are STILL reading Coulter’s books!)
5.) Rampant Sexism: Under fascist regimes, traditional gender roles are made more rigid. Opposition to abortion is high, as is homophobia and anti-gay legislation and national policy.
6.) Controlled Mass Media: Sometimes the media is directly controlled by the government, but in other cases, the media is indirectly controlled by government regulation, or sympathetic media spokespeople and executives. Censorship, especially in war time, is very common. (Please spare me the “liberal media rant.” Murdoch and Moon are NOT “liberal” and they DO make editorial decisions that permeate their massive corporations.)
7.) Obsession with National Security: Fear is used as a motivational tool by the government over the masses (TSA agents save us from a 5 foot 1, 74-year-old Holocaust survivor grandmother who didn’t want to drop her pants in the Palm Beach International Airport, Cheney warns that if Kerry is elected, the USA will suffer a “devastating attack”, Rove: GOP to Use Terror As Campaign Issue in 2006)
8.) Religion and Government are Intertwined: Governments in fascist nations tend to use the most common religion in the nation as a tool to manipulate public opinion. Religious rhetoric and terminology is common from government leaders, even when the major tenets of the religion are diametrically opposed to the government’s policies or actions.
9.) Corporate Power is Protected: The industrial and business aristocracy of a fascist nation often are the ones who put the government leaders into power, creating a mutually beneficial business/government relationship and power elite. (Raise your hand if you complained when Halli-cheney moved their HQ to Dubai, away from the prying eyes of US Auditors — if those positions actually still exist in the government, that is.)
11.) Disdain for Intellectuals and the Arts: Fascist nations tend to promote and tolerate open hostility to higher education, and academia. (“Elitists!”)
12.) Obsession with Crime and Punishment: Under fascist regimes, the police are given almost limitless power to enforce laws. The people are often willing to overlook police abuses and even forego civil liberties in the name of patriotism. (Buh-bye habeus corpus, hello warrantless wiretaps and no-knock warrants!)
13.) Rampant Cronyism and Corruption: Fascist regimes almost always are governed by groups of friends and associates who appoint each other to government positions and use governmental power and authority to protect their friends from accountability. It is not uncommon in fascist regimes for national resources and even treasures to be appropriated or even outright stolen by government leaders. (Surplus to record deficts and debt. Handful of corporations doing very well while the rest tumble. You do the math.)
By Bruno
February 19, 2009 12:43 PM | Link to this
the less pigment, the better (that way, I look tan).
Good one, USinUK. If you are such good friends with so many black people, then why the hypersensitivity re: race? In my poker group, we make jokes back and forth all the time, and no one seems to be offended. Chris Rock makes racially-charged jokes all the time, and no one seems to be offended. Rap songs use the “N” word every other lyric, and the record companies see no reason to censor them. Black people call each other the “N” word all the time, and no one objects. I’m not offended if someone calls me a “cracker” or “white-bread”, as long as their not trying to kill me.
Maybe my perspective in life is different from yours. My early years were spent in integrated schools and neighborhoods, so I don’t carry around any “white man’s guilt”, which you seem to do.
By Bruno
February 19, 2009 12:45 PM | Link to this
“I just called to say I love you” …
How about, I just blogged to say I love you?? ; > }
By JokesOn
February 19, 2009 12:48 PM | Link to this
“So, pray tell, what jokes about white men are off-limits, then??”
You answered it in your following statement - even if you do not like the fact that white men have no real insults towards them that hold weight. But, to entertain the notion, how about a guy being called a rapist versus an idiot? No difference there?
This is what is being discussed: the line of inappropriately degrading of a person versus a simple insult. TOJ believes that all insults are equal by stating since joe-blow called him a MF somewhere (not a national publication) no one should mind Obama being compared to a shot monkey.
TOJ, I have presented a point no different than anyone else does on here. Get over it already and just discuss.
By Correction
February 19, 2009 12:53 PM | Link to this
“100 years from now, the years 2008-2009 will be pointed to as the moment when the US was flushed down the toilet.”
I think he means 2000-2008.
By USinUK
February 19, 2009 12:54 PM | Link to this
Bruno -
“Maybe my perspective in life is different from yours. My early years were spent in integrated schools and neighborhoods, so I don’t carry around any “white man’s guilt”, which you seem to do.”
guilt? no. it’s called a sense of decency.
it’s also called knowing what’s out of bounds. there’s a world of difference between a black person calling each other the N-word and ME calling my coworker the N-word. just as there’s a world of difference between a Jewish person making fun of their culture or religion and ME making fun of the Jewish religion or culture.
the reason Chris Rock can make the jokes he makes - or even Bill Cosby can make the criticisms he makes - is because the make them “from inside”, not from the outside, pointing fingers.
the fact is, even if you went to an integrated school and date black women, you’re still a white guy - and, as such, have very different life experiences than anyone of color (be the person black, hispanic or asian).
By The Other jack
February 19, 2009 12:54 PM | Link to this
USinUK
Come On!!!
I am being dead serious. Google it and listen to the greatest entertainers of our lives singing their hearts out. Ray Charles just kills. Diana Warwick actually sings from her heart. Bruce Springstien is a kid and just sounds great. Hall and Oates, Kenny Rogers, Kenny Loggins, Tina Turner, Kim Caines, Cindy Lauper, Lionel Richey. STEVIE WONDER, Diana Ross, Bob Dylin, Paul Simon, Billy Joel. The best of the best of the best.
if you can listen to the assemble singing the chorus at the end and not fight back tears, you ain’t human. I hate to sound like a complete sap, but we need to have a remake of that song.
By JokesOn
February 19, 2009 1:00 PM | Link to this
In my poker group, we make jokes back and forth all the time, and no one seems to be offended. Chris Rock makes racially-charged jokes all the time, and no one seems to be offended. Rap songs use the “N” word every other lyric, and the record companies see no reason to censor them. Black people call each other the “N” word all the time, and no one objects. I’m not offended if someone calls me a “cracker” or “white-bread”, as long as their not trying to kill me.
Because it is about POWER over another or inequity of POWER. If it is agreed by all that there is no inequality of power, everyone gets along and can poke fun - if not, there is an issue.
Imagine walking up to a homeless guy and chanting “I got ten dollars, I got ten dollars” then do it to some joe at a restaurant or such.
By The Other jack
February 19, 2009 1:00 PM | Link to this
JokesOn
TOJ believes that all insults are equal
This is why I refuse to discuss anything with you. By the time I corrected your wrong assumptions, there would be no more time.
By USinUK
February 19, 2009 1:01 PM | Link to this
Bruno -
“How about, I just blogged to say I love you?? ; > }”
ANYthing that puts that gawdawful abomination of a tune in my head. evil. pure. evil.
what I DO have floating around in my cranium since I was listening to it this morning working out:
Smokin’ cigarettes and writing something nasty on the wall (you nasty boy). Teacher sends you to the principal’s office down the hall. You grow up and learn that kinda thing ain’t right But while you were doin’t it - it sure felt outta sight.
I wish those days could come back once more. Why did those days ever have to go? I wish those days could come back once more. Why did those days ever have to go? ‘Cause I loved them so.
By USinUK
February 19, 2009 1:05 PM | Link to this
TOJ -
“if you can listen to the assemble singing the chorus at the end and not fight back tears, you ain’t human.”
I listen to the song and I fight back the urge to change the channel. seriously - I probably wouldn’t mind it so much if it hadn’t been SOOOOOOOOO horribly overplayed when it came out.
and on that note … I’m closing up shop and heading home … I’ll be back in around an hour … no running with scissors while I’m gone.
By JokesOn
February 19, 2009 1:06 PM | Link to this
the reason Chris Rock can make the jokes he makes - or even Bill Cosby can make the criticisms he makes - is because the make them “from inside”, not from the outside, pointing fingers.
Even the real dog (dog, the bounty hunter) admitted to this, stating that he thought of himself on the inside but understands that it was an err. Many black people were in fact understanding of his point - just not all of them and he apologized.
By Mara
February 19, 2009 1:11 PM | Link to this
Hey, TOJ, I was wondering if you’d heard about the guy in Oklahoma who got a visit from the Secret Service after an police officer saw his bumpersticker which said “Abort Obama, not babies” and understood it to mean “MURDER Obama, not babies”. (true story!)
By The Other jack
February 19, 2009 1:13 PM | Link to this
USinUK
The problems I have with any of this is: What is Black? What is White? I am 1/16th Seminole. Seminoles accepted escaped slaves as their own and because this was so prevalent, the actual “tint” of the tribe changed dramatically over a few short generations.
So am I Black enough to use the N word or do I have to be more Black? When Obama first came on the scene, many Blacks said that he wasn’t Black enough. So at that time, could he say the N word? Or was it a matter of he could only use that word after most of the Black establishment had decided that he was Black enough. I’m pretty sure that there are no more pure races left. Even the most arian Northern Europans are mixed up with the Great Khans that invaded all parts of Europe and interbred with their races.
All of this is nothing but devisive bullsh-t. And all this talk about White people having all the power so they can’t be insulted? Tell that to the guy living in the trailer park and please explain to me why he has more power than almost everybody in the Atlanta City Government?
Equality is exactly that: EQUALITY!!! If anyone insists on equality, then deal with equality.
By JokesOn
February 19, 2009 1:18 PM | Link to this
This is why I refuse to discuss anything with you. By the time I corrected your wrong assumptions, there would be no more time.
“I would rather recognize that both sides are wrong. You should try it sometimes”
“Your side set the precedents and no one here seemed to mind but this is over the line?” (you guys said x but now say y is over the line, what is the difference you asked)
I quoted your post. You dodged.
Why can’t you address the issue of there being a difference between critisising bush and using a racially loaded cartoon? You tried changing the topic twice before getting flustered.
By The Other jack
February 19, 2009 1:19 PM | Link to this
USinUK
if it hadn’t been SOOOOOOOOO horribly overplayed when it came out.
I’ll give you that. But it was number one all over the world. I just looked at Wiki about it and it was truly a phenom.
I am seriously thinking about downloading it as a ring tone just to see the reactions.
We are the world!!!!!
By JokesOn
February 19, 2009 1:25 PM | Link to this
A song for the topic:
Slip sliding away…
Slip sliding away…
You know the nearer your destination, the more you slip sliding away…
By The Other jack
February 19, 2009 1:29 PM | Link to this
Mara
I’ve seen that same saying on a bumper sticker here in Georgia. it’s all a little crazy.
I would hate to be a secret agent with all the racist crazies out there so I really can’t blame them.
By Gandalf, the White!
February 19, 2009 1:34 PM | Link to this
Barry isn’t black,he’s muslim, or more correctly of muslim origin. He’s the first muslo-american president, and the worst president of all time, worse than even Jimmy the peanut farmer! I bet the sickness comes from Carter Peanuts!
By The Other jack
February 19, 2009 1:35 PM | Link to this
JokeOn
Forget it. You came here with the solitary purpose of picking a fight. Not going to happen pal. Move on. Go to some one cares. I don’t.
By The Other jack
February 19, 2009 1:38 PM | Link to this
Gandalf
I hate that this happened to Blakely Georgia. I did a project down there a few years ago and the people were so nice. Just what you would think a sweet Southern town was all about.
By Gandalf, the White!
February 19, 2009 1:39 PM | Link to this
You know what they say about Obama? Monkey see, monkey do!
By Gandalf, the White!
February 19, 2009 1:42 PM | Link to this
ELDEST OF 8TH Graders a song for you!
STFU…. STFU….. the near your destination the more you should STFU!
By Bruno
February 19, 2009 1:42 PM | Link to this
Even the real dog (dog, the bounty hunter) admitted to this, stating that he thought of himself on the inside but understands that it was an err. Many black people were in fact understanding of his point - just not all of them and he apologized.
JokesOn, et.al.—I well understand your point and agree with it. And I think your example of Dog the Bounty Hunter is an excellent one. My concern is that because Obama is half-black, that any jokes using a racial theme will be “out of bounds”. I don’t think that our society will benefit by making black people a “protected class”. Certainly, I well understand the unfortunate history of race relations in our country. And I’ve thrown people out of my office in the past for making hateful racial comments.
Also, TOJ, give JokesOn a break, will you?? Though his language tends to be blunt, I believe that he is sincere in wishing to discuss the issues. Bury the hatchet, will you?
By Gandalf, the White!
February 19, 2009 1:45 PM | Link to this
Wish they would have cleaned the equipment! What a shame that peanut butter will be forever scarred by this.
By Bruno
February 19, 2009 1:47 PM | Link to this
The problems I have with any of this is: What is Black? What is White? I am 1/16th Seminole. Seminoles accepted escaped slaves as their own and because this was so prevalent, the actual “tint” of the tribe changed dramatically over a few short generations.
One of the best quotes coming out of the Reagan era occurred after Reagan got shot. Ever the quipster, Reagan said to the surgeon who was going to operate on him “Well, I certainly hope that you are all Republicans.” The surgeon answered, “Mr. President, today we are all Republicans.” Still brings a lump to my throat when I think about it.
By Lyrazel
February 19, 2009 1:52 PM | Link to this
I hate that song.
I never liked the Carpenters either.
Gag.
I don’t like ‘good for me’ music or celebrities with causes. I like my celebrities to have issues: weight gain, addictions, bad divorces, toxic hair syndrome and bad plastic surgery. Celebrities are paid to have issues in public so I can evaluate their worthiness in my short attention spans. I love toxic celebrities—
TOJ somebody needs to run you over in a bus singing Up With People….I mean how can you talk appalachia and not talk about the Carters, or visit the Carter Family Fold in Poor Valley? Shame. Shame. Shame. Mother Maybelle not Jimmy, btw.
My kin were too poor for tombstones and too rich for Potters Field…
Did you know you can’t buy a tombstone on credit?
By The Other jack
February 19, 2009 1:56 PM | Link to this
Bruno
Though his language tends to be blunt, I believe that he is sincere in wishing to discuss the issues.
Which issues? The way he misrepresents what I say or the fact that he keeps his nose up my butt every time he’s here. You’re a good guy, but don’t try to tell me who to converse with. Two days ago you asked that I not communicate with AW. The reason is that she was getting a little hysterical. Have you actually seen JokesOn trying to discuss anything with me? Hysterics is his middle name.
You complimented me on my civility so let me continue that civility by picking sane discussion partners. Don’t you think that would be better than answering his demands that I acknowledge him?
By JokesOn
February 19, 2009 2:01 PM | Link to this
Forget it. You came here with the solitary purpose of picking a fight. Not going to happen pal. Move on. Go to some one cares. I don’t.
Nope. It is what it is: you cannot get over past issues and hate being proven wrong - especially by me. Way it goes.
Dog, Any racial slur should be over the line. Criticize his policies or political position if one has that opinion, but one should leave purely degrading remarks out of it.
“And I’ve thrown people out of my office in the past for making hateful racial comments.”
As for the flip side, I have a dear friend whose daughter refuses to study at the library (it was recommended because she said she could not concentrate at home), and replied that that was what white people do. The damage of past race relations is multi-faceted and no one group is totally culpable - yet every person has to own what is theirs; be it a healing role, a perseverer role or a make amends role.
By Bruno
February 19, 2009 2:02 PM | Link to this
Celebrities are paid to have issues in public so I can evaluate their worthiness in my short attention spans. I love toxic celebrities
Did you know you can’t buy a tombstone on credit?
Lyrazel, you are on a roll today!!
I just got one of the best compliments ever a few minutes ago. A lady friend came by my house to get an adjustment, and said “When I die, I want to come back as YOUR rabbit”. Am I the only one who likes animals more than people?
By JokesOn
February 19, 2009 2:05 PM | Link to this
Hysterics is his middle name.
Examples please…
By Bruno
February 19, 2009 2:08 PM | Link to this
You’re a good guy, but don’t try to tell me who to converse with.
I’m not trying to tell you to do anything, TOJ. You’re a grown man, so I expect that you will do what you think suits you best. I just hate to see you get into an angered state over nothing. And I’m sure most of the other posters are tired of your flaming wars with JokesOn. In case you haven’t noticed, the liberal faction keys in on your insults as a way to discredit your otherwise excellent political points.
I have to run for a while, so keep up the good fight, buddy.
By The Other jack
February 19, 2009 2:11 PM | Link to this
Lyrazel
My Aunt Hazel married June Carter’s First Cousin. When i would go up there, it wasn’t the tourist trap called the Carter Fold. it was called AP’s store. That store was just one of many, many local grocery stores and markets that had Saturday Night old timey music. Holston Valley grocery was much better than APs store. We went almost every Saturday night and we would all lay out blankets in the field across the road from the store. People who are now legends would set on the porch of that store and perform until all hours. I remember seeing Johnny Cash, Buck Owens, of course all the Carter family, Dolly Parton was just a kid but could sing her butt off. the best guitar player I ever heard was Roy Clark. I remember a Hee Haw where they talked about the fact that the Holston Valley Grocery store was burned to the ground. My family is still up there and I couldn’t find that place if I had to.
Music. It’s all just notes and words. Non musicians are who put music in pre-set categories. I love it all.
People have always asked me what kind of music I play. I have always answered with “whatever the guy writing the check wants to hear”.
By Bruno
February 19, 2009 2:12 PM | Link to this
Dog, Any racial slur should be over the line. Criticize his policies or political position if one has that opinion, but one should leave purely degrading remarks out of it.
Obviously, JokesOn, I’m not in support of using racial slurs—or any kind of slurs for that matter. However, like TOJ, I find it rather telling that the same folks who have no problem calling Bush/Bush supporters every name in the book are all of a sudden up in arms about a cartoon which may or not be about Obama. That’s all.
Hope things are well with you and your family. Catch you in a little while.
By The Other jack
February 19, 2009 2:16 PM | Link to this
Bruno
I just hate to see you get into an angered state over nothing. And I’m sure most of the other posters are tired of your flaming wars with JokesOn.
In case you haven’t noticed, I’m not angry and I haven’t had a flaming war with Joke in quite a while. That’s because I refuse to deal with him.
Are we done?
By JokesOn
February 19, 2009 2:28 PM | Link to this
However, like TOJ, I find it rather telling that the same folks who have no problem calling Bush/Bush supporters every name in the book are all of a sudden up in arms about a cartoon which may or not be about Obama.
I find a difference between joe-blow calling bush a terrible name and the washington post having a racially charged cartoon printed. Equating the two is a way of inappropriately normalizing the topic.
If there was an actual example of a national publication depicting bush as hitler, I would agree that it is terribly inappropriate no matter what was printed about, for general examples sake, carter. But, in the end those examples do not actually exist - which furthers the betrayal of honest discussion on here. That is an example of hysterics.
Things are good here. Finally in atlanta again afte being on contract for the last 1.5yrs. Taking some much needed time off with the fam and gearing up for my new career….after a break.
By Lyrazel
February 19, 2009 2:31 PM | Link to this
I don’t remember when the Fold was nothing’ but gradually it will return to the same, which is a pity because music there was always special and a nation without a concept of its own historic music is a sad one.
By The Other jack
February 19, 2009 2:53 PM | Link to this
Lyrazel
I just did a search for Holston Valley Grocery and found nothing. I didn’t find anything before 1976 on AP’s store. Uncle Bob died in the early sixties so we must have been going up there in the late 50s. I turned 8 in 1960 so all of that free Saturday night music must have gone away in about 1962-1963.
That whole area is very proud that Oh Brother Where Art Thou resurrected that music. It’s everywhere up there.
A group of local musical scholars started researching the music and it’s roots and they formed a band called Fire In The Kitchen. It is a great sound and it is the early roots of old timey and bluegrass. It has a very lively Celtic sound. If you ever get a chance to go to Bristol, you will hear some really great music. Hiltons (Carter Fold) and Poor Valley is a few miles north of Bristol.
By RF
February 19, 2009 2:55 PM | Link to this
The cartoon can be debated all day long, but IMO there is a difference between political satire and obvious racism. I’m sure the creator of the cartoon would argue that he/she intended no racial overtones, but such is all too obvious. As far as we have progressed in our country, there is still a strong element of racism around, and many people I know are laughing and commenting on the very racial nature of the cartoon, whether the creator intended such or not. I don’t like it for that reason- it fuels the ignorantly racist to continue in their hatred and distrust of the president. I’ve seen some fairly tasteless cartoons about Bush, but in my recollection they were more about his leadership or politics, not about his race. That’s a touchy subject and cartoons that have such tone, whether overt or implied, will create more uproar. As his term progresses, I’m sure there will be satirical lampoons of the president that will be funny, critical, and point out his flaws. That will never compare to using the image of a dead chimpanzee as an obvious reference to an African-American. As a Caucasian who knows some racist folks, I can assure you the racism in this cartoon is all to obvious and far too well received. You’d be surprised at how many Caucasians, educated and respected, can be decidedly racist— I know an alarming number of them.
By Gale
February 19, 2009 2:57 PM | Link to this
Lyrazel, Do I understand you to mean country music before it became “country” as in country and western? Before even “bluegrass”?
By Gale
February 19, 2009 3:11 PM | Link to this
RF, So are those of us who honestly do not see a racist message in this cartoon “post racial”?
By The Other jack
February 19, 2009 3:20 PM | Link to this
RF
I definitely understand what you are saying and yes, it is definitely racist. But to say that all lampoons about Bush were about his leadership shows that you just refuse to acknowledge the truth or you have been in a coma for the past eight years. That is no more truthful than to say that the cartoon was saying that Obama leads like a dim witted monkey, and has nothing to do with his race.
You’d be surprised at how many Caucasians, educated and respected, can be decidedly racist— I know an alarming number of them.
I agree. Racism is alive and well. But to me, the real issue is whether racism is generally accepted by White Culture. I don’t think it is.
I saw The Kings Of Comedy Show at Phillips a few years ago. (Not the movie, the real road show) Steve Harvey said this: “White People, I don’t like the mother f^ckers. I don’t trust em and I don’t like em.” At that, 15,000 Black people rose to their feet to give him a roaring ovation. So if Jerry Seinfeld would have said that about Black people, would that have brought 15,000 White people to their feet with a roaring ovation. I don’t think so.
By Bruno
February 19, 2009 3:27 PM | Link to this
I just did a google search “George Bush chimp comparisons”, and came up with 484,000 hits. Here are some of the links:
www. abc.net.au/news/newsitems/200504/s1335783.htm
www. democrats.com/node/2636?size=preview
www. bushorchimp.com/
www. uncuriousgeorge.org/linksprimates.html
So, once again, it’s alright to compare Bush with a chimp, but not Obama. Got it.
By Bruno
February 19, 2009 3:30 PM | Link to this
RF, So are those of us who honestly do not see a racist message in this cartoon “post racial”?
The bottom line, Gale, is that if you are white, then you personally are responsible for any and all racial problems world-wide. As I keep saying, don’t be too surprised if certain words are made illegal one of these days.
By Gale
February 19, 2009 3:38 PM | Link to this
Bruno, thanks for checking that. This is the sort of thing I have been concerned about since Obama became a serious candidate. The same attacks and lampoons that are used against white politicians are suddenly “racist”. Clearly we have compared presidents to chimps in the past.
By The Other jack
February 19, 2009 3:49 PM | Link to this
Bruno Gale
Excellent points.
I’m still not quite convinced, but I can definitely see your point.
By USinUK
February 19, 2009 3:50 PM | Link to this
TOJ -
“White People, I don’t like the mother f^ckers. I don’t trust em and I don’t like em.” At that, 15,000 Black people rose to their feet to give him a roaring ovation.”
um. who here has said that anything like that is okay?? of course it isn’t. no one is saying that it’s okay for blacks (or asians or whatever) to hate but not okay for whites.
Bruno -
Bush/Chimp came from Curious George (which, in this case, was used ironically). WORLD of difference between that and the black man/primate comparison.
By Frustrated
February 19, 2009 3:52 PM | Link to this
Lyrazel——
The whole tombstone thing on credit just made me laugh to the point of crying…
That was great!!!!!
By USinUK
February 19, 2009 3:54 PM | Link to this
Gale -
“The same attacks and lampoons that are used against white politicians are suddenly “racist”. Clearly we have compared presidents to chimps in the past.”
First of all, Reagan wasn’t COMPARED to Bonzo - there were jokes made about Bedtime for Bonzo, but he was never equated with a chimp.
And, as I mentioned above, Bush/Chimp came from (not) Curious George.
again, VERY different from using a racial slur of comparing a black man to a primate.
does it make you “post-racial” if you don’t see the racism - I hope so. it’s a lovely thought.
By JokesOn
February 19, 2009 4:04 PM | Link to this
First, “So, once again, it’s alright to compare Bush with a chimp, but not Obama. Got it.”
Back to the point that is relevant: Calling each of them the “n” word is different as is this. If you disagree, try my test of asking a mixed bunch of guys “why are you guys hanging with the monkeys” and see who in the group reacts.
Are you ignoring the obvious on purpose? The hits you found are insulting, but not a repugnant racial slur - big difference.
Maybe it was a innocent mistake but I cannot see that without applying ignorant to the editor. Example, there is a coffee house chain that was originally named Beaners. They voluntarily changed their name to “Big Bs” because they became aware of the slur that Latinos associate with the previous name. They meant no harm, but still acknowledged the fact that it IS a slur that is used and they had enough class to change it out of respect. Are you really unable to do the same?
But to say that all lampoons about Bush were about his leadership I saw the word “most” in his post…and none I ever saw were about his race. As stated, if bush was in a cartoon depicted as hitler, most all of us would probably have a real issue with it as well.
By Gale
February 19, 2009 4:06 PM | Link to this
My preference is that I don’t see the racism because none was intended.
By JokesOn
February 19, 2009 4:07 PM | Link to this
Dog,
The bottom line, Gale, is that if you are white, then you personally are responsible for any and all racial problems world-wide.
Where do you read anything like that coming from any of the bloggers posts? Show me one example that backs your absurd statement.
By JokesOn
February 19, 2009 4:10 PM | Link to this
Dog, The bottom line, Gale, is that if you are white, then you personally are responsible for any and all racial problems world-wide.
And you get this impression from exacty what? Lets see the post.
That type of hysterics, to use TOJs word, are simply to hyjack the disusion. Please.
By The Other jack
February 19, 2009 4:15 PM | Link to this
USinUK
I’m not concerned about Steve harvey. He’s a dick. But the fact that he got a roaring ovation from an arena of of 15,000 Black people, that’s a problem.
um. who here has said that anything like that is okay??
But that wasn’t the discussion. RF said that he knew some respected white people that are racist. So do I. But my point is that the culture of White America will not applaud that sentiment. I honestly looked around the arena and tried to find a single black person who was not standing and applauding the comment. If there were, I didn’t see them and that was the biggest ovation Harvey got all night, so I had a long time to look.
I just found a clip about a nut called Kamau Kambon who said ON C-SPAN that the only solution was to exterminate the White Race. Not a huge ovation, but quite a few people in the small audience thought that was a good idea. Can you imagine a White person getting on National television and saying that and getting not a word of coverage from the media?
I hate all this crap, but I find it very interesting that Black people can publicly be racist to the point of demanding extermination of the White Race and still the term racism is almost always referring to White people alone?
By The Other jack
February 19, 2009 4:22 PM | Link to this
I just went to Yahoo Image search and typed in “Bush as Hitler”. I got 15,506 hits. That’s 15,506 images.
Looks like somebody has 15,506 real issues.
By Gale
February 19, 2009 4:25 PM | Link to this
I cannot believe how many times I have had to censor myself in this discussion. I am ready for the Friday topic change.
By JokesOn
February 19, 2009 4:38 PM | Link to this
I got one of those bs forwarded text messages during the inauguration. It had a HUGE list of people that sent it on and stated this: “How about while all the black people (used “n” word) are in DC, we white people go ito their houses and get our stuff back that they stole.”
So, do not tell me that there is not still an audience for white supremacist remarks.
Plus, how many years did black people have to endure the potentially real threat of being eradicated? In the last 20 years there was a witch hunt in Texas where the officials falsely prosecuted many black people for crack/coke possession (all 1-4 grams) and the minimum sentence any of them got was around 60 years; most got 99years. It was a jury trial, and the head DEA was found to have fabricated stories, had a criminal record his superiors knew about but ignored. After ten years, it was finally overturned. All this time, and especially back in the day, black people had to hope a white male would defend them.
And you want to talk about a comic as a rebuttal! Exactly when have white people dealt with such circumtances?
By JokesOn
February 19, 2009 4:41 PM | Link to this
Looks like somebody has 15,506 real issues.
Hmmm. I dare you to ask me if I think that type of comment (hitler) is anything else but sickening, and tell me how many were published in a national mag or such. Lets see if you have a point.
By JokesOn
February 19, 2009 4:43 PM | Link to this
I cannot believe how many times I have had to censor myself in this discussion.
Why is that Gale? Hate to guess, so let us now what you think if you have something to say.
By American Woman
February 19, 2009 4:44 PM | Link to this
I thought it was in bad taste, but I agree that pretty much anything goes with political satire. (Bush totally IS a chimp, y’all.) I didn’t see Sharpton pounding his fist in outrage over the TON of overtly sexist and certainly tasteless references to the women who ran for higher office last year. Geeeeeeez…. SEXISM (including homophobia) clearly crosses every racial, societal, and cultural faction! It’s just in the last year I realized how much.
So what do we do? Why not speak out against actual injustice when we see it, and ignore the a*******holes when we can. Why give them a platform for their outdated bigotry? Eventually they’ll dry up and decompose like the fossils they are. Well, we can hope.
By Bruno
February 19, 2009 4:44 PM | Link to this
Are you ignoring the obvious on purpose? The hits you found are insulting, but not a repugnant racial slur - big difference.
JokesOn—Of course I appreciate the fact that black people don’t want to be compared to primates. But neither do whites. Nor are conservatives fond of being compared with Neanderthals. My point is simply one about selective outrage. We’re supposed to be outraged that Obama is (possibly) being compared to a chimp, but applaud when the same comparison is made to Bush??
I hate all this crap, but I find it very interesting that Black people can publicly be racist to the point of demanding extermination of the White Race and still the term racism is almost always referring to White people alone?
All discussions of group power imbalances aside, I’m ready for the racial double-standards to end as well.
Where do you read anything like that coming from any of the bloggers posts? Show me one example that backs your absurd statement.
I didn’t conjure my (facetious) statement from any particular blog statement, but more from a lifetime of hearing how white people are racists and are responsible for the plight of “people of color”. All you have to do is listen to a few Farrakhan speeches to find corroboration.
By Lyrazel
February 19, 2009 4:45 PM | Link to this
TOJ—-Hiltons, VA
Gale: yes, I do, but I have a place in my heart for Lester & Earl & Doc. America has so much music in its history but its scant ever heard—all those jigs and ballads wait to be discovered again, I hope. Do I consider what is country still country? Um its pop with cowboy hats and more boobs than talent— but there are exceptions
I think Obama can/will/should/must be lampooned. He won. He’s fair bait like the rest of ‘em. Anybody bought one of those Hillary nut crackers? Rude—but that’s what being in public spotlights is—a crude side-show and not PC.
By Bruno
February 19, 2009 4:48 PM | Link to this
* I am ready for the Friday topic change*.
Well, on a lighter note, Gale, I just heard a moving interview with Graham Nash on XM radio. He played several of his songs, just him and his piano or guitar. Beautiful. He explained that the song “Our House” was written about a time in his life when he was dating Joni Mitchell. For being a big superstar, he came across as a really grounded, nice person.
By USinUK
February 19, 2009 4:49 PM | Link to this
TOJ -
“Can you imagine a White person getting on National television and saying that and getting not a word of coverage from the media?”
ah. yeah. I’ve seen it LOADS when people like Louis Theroux goes to interview people with the “new Klan” and other racist organizations. And have we all forgotten the dragging death of James Byrd??? lynching still goes on.
again - 2 wrongs are still WRONG.
“I just went to Yahoo Image search and typed in “Bush as Hitler”. I got 15,506 hits. That’s 15,506 images.”
and??? no one here is saying that’s okay - so, why are you trying to use it to justify racism in equating Obama with a primate?
By The Other jack
February 19, 2009 4:50 PM | Link to this
JokeOn
And you want to talk about a comic as a rebuttal! Exactly when have white people dealt with such circumtances?
No. What I wanted to talk about was the reaction to that comic by every single Black person in Phillips Arena, but as per usual, here I am having to explain the actual topic of discussion, instead of actually discussing the subject of my post. I know that you will never get it, but I hope that Bruno will begin to understand my refusal to waste my time with you.
I just explained this to USinUK, so it was explained yet again, but you still didn’t get it.
Understand Bruno?
By The Other jack
February 19, 2009 4:55 PM | Link to this
Bruno, USinUK, Gale
This is scary. We are almost treading on the forbidden subject. I’m sure I crossed well over the line mentioning the reaction to a very racist statement by one of the most popular Black entertainers of the last ten years.
Gale, sometimes you just have to speak out without fear.
You guys have a great night.
By Bruno
February 19, 2009 4:56 PM | Link to this
and??? no one here is saying that’s okay - so, why are you trying to use it to justify racism in equating Obama with a primate?
Again, USinUK, I think that the objection coming from the right-leaners today is more about selective outrage than it is about justifying racism. Just my L 0.20. (I don’t have a fancy “L” on my keyboard like you do ; > } )
By USinUK
February 19, 2009 4:59 PM | Link to this
Okay guys - it’s nearly 10 and I’m too pooped to pop. been a long danged week.
anyhoo … everyone have a good evening - hug your Monster Cat or floppy bunny or fuzzeh puppeh or significant other (or all of the above) …
hugs and love all around - tomorrow is FRIDAY!!! (and not a moment too soon) … new topic …
hasta la pasta
By Bruno
February 19, 2009 5:01 PM | Link to this
And have we all forgotten the dragging death of James Byrd??? lynching still goes on.
No, I haven’t. Have you forgot about the black man who specifically targeted and shot several white people on a NY subway several years ago. Racism blows both ways, dear, something you don’t seem to want to acknowledge.
I just explained this to USinUK, so it was explained yet again, but you still didn’t get it.
Well, for all her good points, she’s not very good at acknowledging when someone else has a good point. Which was what I learned to do from MY marriage counseling sessions.
By Lyrazel
February 19, 2009 5:02 PM | Link to this
What if the cartoon was drawn by a black woman? Does it change opinion because of the skin color or sex of the artist?
By JokesOn
February 19, 2009 5:03 PM | Link to this
Dog,
All you have to do is listen to a few Farrakhan speeches to find corroboration.
We can all cherry pick. But, no matter how many cherries you got, wrong is still wrong, and degrading remarks that harken back to a day that blacks had to live and be treated as sub-human are still totally over the line.
Of course I appreciate the fact that black people don’t want to be compared to primates. But neither do whites. Nor are conservatives fond of being compared with Neanderthals. My point is simply one about selective outrage.
And minimizing a degrading racial slur regarding one as sub-human, which has history of it being IMPLEMENTED, is a losing argument.
Tell a random person that you will burn them alive, then say it to someone who lived through the holocaust. Get it? There is a difference that people are not simply “choosing.” It is a difference that people LIVED through.
By The Other jack
February 19, 2009 5:08 PM | Link to this
USinUk
ah. yeah. I’ve seen it LOADS when people like Louis Theroux goes to interview people with the “new Klan” and other racist organizations. And have we all forgotten the dragging death of James Byrd??? lynching still goes on.
And what was the reaction to James Byrd by the White culture? And what was the reaction to the freeing of OJ Simpson after DNA said that he butchered two White people by Black culture? Seems like I remember video of Black people screaming for joy. I don’t remember white people screaming for joy over the dragging death of James Byrd? And James Byrd was killed by stupid red necks. OJ Simson was a Black Icon.
I’ve also never seen Louis Theroux (whoever that is) given a national audience of CSPAN.
no one here is saying that’s okay - so, why are you trying to use it to justify racism in equating Obama with a primate?
No one is justifying racism. Read my posts since you have been gone. I saw a challenge to produce Bush portrayed as hitler and I answered it, 15,506 times.
Remember PLEASE ——————
We are the world.
We are the Children
We are the ones that make a brighter day so lets start givin.
COME ON, JOIN IN!!!! Up with people!!!
We are the world.
We are the Children
We are the ones that make a brighter day so lets start givin.
Have a good night, girl.
By Bruno
February 19, 2009 5:16 PM | Link to this
Tell a random person that you will burn them alive, then say it to someone who lived through the holocaust. Get it? There is a difference that people are not simply “choosing.” It is a difference that people LIVED through.
From my studies of History, virtually every ethnic group was horribly discriminated against at some point. So, from my perspective, we’re all even. I personally don’t think that past discrimination against Germans here in the US during WWI or WWII gives me any special status. As such, I’m not particularly receptive to other groups complaining about things that happened 60, 150, or 2000 years ago. I’m ready for us all to move on. Okay?
By USinUK
February 20, 2009 8:31 AM | Link to this
TOJ -
that’s it!! I’m voting you off the island!! no more “we are the world!” I’ll put up with a lot from you, mister, but that song is something up with which I’ll not put!!! ;-)
“And what was the reaction to James Byrd by the White culture?”
for the most part, horrified. but then, you also have people like The Greaseman who came out and said (about Lauren Hill’s music), “no wonder those people get dragged to death.” he lost that job, but he’s still on the air.
“Read my posts since you have been gone. I saw a challenge to produce Bush portrayed as hitler and I answered it, 15,506 times.”
I did. and again, so what? how many of them were done by a major national news outlet? or were they done by some idiot and then linked to by fellow idiots on the left and (justifiably) outraged people on the right? in other words - 1 image carried hundreds of times. by low-rent idiots. not by major media publications.
to pick up on Bruno’s “I think that the objection coming from the right-leaners today is more about selective outrage than it is about justifying racism” - you know how I feel about comparisons to Hitler and/or Nazis. it diminishes the horror of the holocaust when EVERYone is Hitler. And, if the WaPo or the NYT or Newsweek or any of the other “liberal” media portrayed Bush in that manner, then I would have been outraged. But they didn’t.
As far as the OJ reaction - again, so what? if you’ll recall, that was only a couple of years after they saw the policemen who beat the crap out of Rodney King walk free. and what happened when OJ was recently found guilty of completely nutting up and commiting armed burglery? nary a peep.
Neither I nor Jokes are saying “well, their racism is justified whereas the cartoon is just wrong”. again - two wrongs are still wrong. and this cartoon WAAAAYYYYYY overstepped the line.
By USinUK
February 20, 2009 8:49 AM | Link to this
Bruno -
“Well, for all her good points, she’s not very good at acknowledging when someone else has a good point. Which was what I learned to do from MY marriage counseling sessions.”
wow. so I was the topic of discussion in your marriage counseling sessions? I’m almost as omnipotent as Karen Carpenter!
as far as acknowledging good points, make one and I’ll acknowledge it. however, the two points I saw yesterday were “well, BLACK PEOPLE are racist, TOO” and “selective outrage”. The first is not only not a good point, it’s actually rather juvenile. The second is inane - comparisons of Bush to a chimp came from an ironic comparison with Curious George and, let’s be honest, don’t carry the racist baggage that comparing any black person to a primate carries.
So, in a way, you’re right - it is selective outrage - it’s being outraged at something worth being outraged about.
By American Woman
February 20, 2009 9:09 AM | Link to this
By it’s very nature and design, political satire has ALWAYS been offensive, to some degree, to somebody. In the early days of our nation, it was just as brutal, if not more so. Ironically, politics cannot ever truly be “PC.” It will always be some degree of ugly! I feel perfectly fine expressing my opinion that the cartoon was in bad taste, and NOT looking at it! The artist and editor must be tickled PINK that their decision to print something that obnoxious has garnered them all this attention! Simply, you can’t “outlaw” such expressions and still maintain our first amendment rights. You can march and protest — FINE! Go for it. Do you really think that is going to purge our society of individuals with offensive opinions? It won’t. Barack Obama has shaken off more obnoxiousness that most of us can imagine to focus on his goals and achieve something truly amazing. Do you really think a stupid little cartoon undermines that? I don’t. We choose what we’ll spend our energy fretting over. I’m glad our President is spending his on more important things!
By Gale
February 20, 2009 9:13 AM | Link to this
In response to why I censor myself: Sometimes it is just beating a dead horse, to use the cliche’. When I find myself being drawn into a negative and non-productive discussion, I try to just zip it. I already said what I thought about the topic and I was trying to consider what everyone else said. Sometimes the ongoing discussion changes my opinions or causes me to ask questions for clarity. In this case, I didn’t read anything to change my opinion.
By Gale
February 20, 2009 9:18 AM | Link to this
American Woman. So true.
By USinUK
February 20, 2009 9:30 AM | Link to this
man - what’s going on with the weather there ??? below freezing this morning - wasn’t it in the 60s this week? and now tornadoes??? I hope everyone is taking their Vitamin C.
By USinUK
February 20, 2009 9:35 AM | Link to this
Gale -
“When I find myself being drawn into a negative and non-productive discussion, I try to just zip it.”
you are a far stronger woman than I … I get totally sucked in.
sa-LUTE!
By Gandalf, the White!
February 20, 2009 9:38 AM | Link to this
I got news for all you dumbassi out there WE ARE ALL PRIMATES!” Jesus H. Christ! ARE YOU REALLY THAT STUPID?
By Gandalf, the White!
February 20, 2009 9:38 AM | Link to this
I got news for all you dumbassi out there WE ARE ALL PRIMATES!” Jesus H. Christ! ARE YOU REALLY THAT STUPID?
By Gandalf, the White!
February 20, 2009 9:39 AM | Link to this
YOU CAN’T CURE STUPID, YOU STUPID PRIMATES!
By Mara
February 20, 2009 9:40 AM | Link to this
well, the Post has issued a (non)apology to all those people who were offended by the cartoon. Which I actually found more offensive than the cartoon!
It ticks me off when someone does the non-apologetic apology. You know - the “I’m sorry if you were offended” kind of apology. Grrr. It irritates me. Just say “I’m sorry I offended you”. Don’t make it sound like the offended person is just being overly sensitive and unreasonable about it. Sheesh.
By Gandalf, the White!
February 20, 2009 9:42 AM | Link to this
The only “Truly amazing” thing Barry has done is dupe idiot like you into believing him lord and savior. He is the worst kind of Chicago politician and he is ruining our country as I speak. Don’t idolize him, it makes you look like a chief of the DumBASSI tribe.
By The Other jack
February 20, 2009 9:47 AM | Link to this
USinUK
that’s it!! I’m voting you off the island!! no more “we are the world!” I’ll put up with a lot from you, mister, but that song is something up with which I’ll not put!!! ;-)
OK. I didn’t want to do this but:
Up, up with people. You meet them where ever you go Up Up with people , they’re the best kind of folks we know.
That’s all the words I remember and I just can’t bring myself to find them no matter how much I know it would drive you crazy.
I just finished a ten paragraph tirade about the fact that I can’t get city contracts because of overt racism on the part of Black people but Gale is right. We shouldn’t talk about it. We should just take it because some guy’s great, great, great, great, great grandfather was a slave. I’m just so glad that now they can talk about abortions in the Sudan. Freedom of speech must be a hell of a great thing.
By Lyrazel
February 20, 2009 9:49 AM | Link to this
Gandalf, if you believe in ID (intelligent design) then we are not all primates and not related to chimps….wink wink
Gale & AW: smart posts!!
By Gale
February 20, 2009 9:49 AM | Link to this
It’s Spring. Weather happens. It was exciting to see the hail actually, and watch the fast moving storms on TV. I like hearing the weather guys get all excited about dramtic weather. Unfortunately, my partner is not as fond of severe weather as I am. Lightening freaks her out. I think it is just cool.
By JokesOn
February 20, 2009 9:50 AM | Link to this
The artist and editor must be tickled PINK that their decision to print something that obnoxious has garnered them all this attention!
Actually they were embarrassed about it as stated on…wait for it…FOX News. The panel on FOX News also not only found it in bad taste, but racists and over the line.
Well, in the end, NYPost apologised and stated that it was in fact over the line.
So, case closed. Once again, it is not so much what each individual thinks themselves (I personally was not offended…it did not insult me),but did it cross a line for a whole group of others reasonably. It is called empathy guys/ladies.
TOJ, Maybe you would not get so frustrated if you did not try to hijack so many topics with what YOU want to discuss injected into an already in-progress discussion. At least be up front about what YOU want to discuss as what it is: a turn in topics. Unfortunately, I doubt you are being honest and simply see that your position was a failing one and tried grasping a new angle that might not yield you such a fool.
Good day all. Ill drop back by but have no desire to run in circles each and every day.
By Lyrazel
February 20, 2009 9:51 AM | Link to this
I have yet to see ONE red state decline the stimulus package—wink wink politics folks.
By Gale
February 20, 2009 9:53 AM | Link to this
I agree with you Mara. My aquarian bluntness has often offended people when I meant no offense. A simple “Sorry, I didn’t mean to offend you.” really is the only answer. What is said cannot be unsaid.
By The Other jack
February 20, 2009 9:56 AM | Link to this
USinUK
It looks great outside but it is 28 degrees.
I looked up Louis Theroux and watched a piece he did on the hard Rock Restaurant chain. He just went on and on about how he couldn’t find a single celebrity eating there. This guy’s an idiot. Does he have a show or something?
By Bruno
February 20, 2009 9:57 AM | Link to this
as far as acknowledging good points, make one and I’ll acknowledge it.
Geez—I’m changing your name from Polyanna to Lorena Bobbitt.
wow. so I was the topic of discussion in your marriage counseling sessions?
I’m not sure—Did we have an affair while you were in Atlanta?
I’m almost as omnipotent as Karen Carpenter!
Did you mean “ubiquitous”, rather than “omnipotent”?? We’ll have to have our resident lexicographer, Mara, weigh in on that one.
no more “we are the world!
Alright then, I’ll switch over to singing “That’s What Friends Are For” by Dionne Warwick, Elton John, Gladys Knight, and Stevie Wonder. It’s even more sappy than “TWFAF”!
By Bruno
February 20, 2009 10:02 AM | Link to this
Because it is about POWER over another or inequity of POWER. If it is agreed by all that there is no inequality of power, everyone gets along and can poke fun - if not, there is an issue.
Well, let me beat the dead horse one more time….. According to JokesOn, certain jokes become off-limits when there is an imbalance in power between the jokester and the target of the joke. In the case of Obama, he is now the single most powerful man on the planet. So by your theory, JokesOn, no jokes should be off-limit.
By Frustrated
February 20, 2009 10:03 AM | Link to this
I like hearing the weather guys get all excited about dramtic weather.
Me too!!! I was watching channel 2 and the guy (not Mr. Burns) got really excited and warned people of “Tornatic Winds”… I don’t think I have ever heard that expression before.
By USinUK
February 20, 2009 10:07 AM | Link to this
Gale -
“I think it is just cool.”
I love Lightning, too - nature’s fireworks display.
But spring … in February??? am I the only one who remembers being cold in Feb - and spring not arriving until March-ish??? (then, of course, by the time we got out of school in May, we were baking). and tornadoes didn’t happen until late March/April.
TOJ -
“Up, up with people. You meet them where ever you go Up Up with people , they’re the best kind of folks we know.”
hahaha … that’s all I remember, too … do you remember the 1980-something SuperBowl when they were the half-time entertainment??? GAH!
I wound up putting on the Right Rev. Al Green last night while I was making dinner … and DANG if they just don’t make music like that anymore. “Loooooooove, let’s stay together … loving you whether (whether) times are good or bad, happy or sad”
By Bruno
February 20, 2009 10:09 AM | Link to this
Things are good here. Finally in atlanta again afte being on contract for the last 1.5yrs. Taking some much needed time off with the fam and gearing up for my new career….after a break.
So what kind of new career did you come up with, JokesOn?? I’m hunting for new ideas myself. I’m going to Atlantic City next week to try my hand at playing poker professionally.
By Bruno
February 20, 2009 10:13 AM | Link to this
Just for you, USinUK:
Keep smiling, keep shining Knowing you can always count on me, for sure That’s what friends are for For/In good times and/in bad times I’ll be on your side forever more That’s what friends are for
By Gale
February 20, 2009 10:13 AM | Link to this
TOJ, I didn’t say you shouldn’t talk about it. I mean that ranting and venting about something does not solve anything. It might make you feel better for the moment. But it does not move the discussion forward. There is certainly injustice in affirmative action, whether mandated or implied. Did we need a more level playing field after segregation? I think so. As with many programs, that had unintended consequences. I think what has happened to the inner cities is partly because of an entitlement attitude.
We need to walk the walk, if you will. We need to start looking at every person and every situation on it’s merits in the now. We need to let go of our past. Slavery happened in America. All white people are not to blame for it. Segregation happened. Many people today have never seen it. Many neighborhoods and workplaces today are still predominately one race or another. In part this is simply “like me” human nature. We don’t hate people not “like me”. We just tend to be more comfortable with those who are alike. Added diversity in public life is changing that. It is a good thing.
By Bruno
February 20, 2009 10:18 AM | Link to this
I never thought that I would be cheering on Bill Clinton, but, according to an AJC story this AM, he has advised Obama to stop being so negative about the economy. I couldn’t agree more. While certainly there is a “nuts-and-bolts” aspect to a failing economy which no one can wish away, I also believe that there is a psychological component as well. With the constant negative drumbeat coming from the press, and now Obama, it’s no wonder that everyone is so pessimistic.
By USinUK
February 20, 2009 10:19 AM | Link to this
TOJ -
“This guy’s an idiot. Does he have a show or something?”
Louis Theroux is absolutely BRILLIANT. seriously, try watching his program (he’s done a few series). he’s done everything from spending a week with professional wrestlers, learning about them, their craft, etc, to spending a week with porn stars learning about them, their craft, etc.
he’s also spent time with the Westboro Baptist family, racists, gamblers, people who believe in aliens, people looking for a mail-order bride and the like. the great thing about him is that he doesn’t poke fun or demean the people he interviews - he really does try to get to the root of who they are, what they believe and why they do the things they do. (he throws himself into projects, wrestling, getting plastic surgery, doing a segment on the Home Shopping Network)
I’ve seen him aired on PBS and on BBCAmerica - seriously - give him a try - I think you’ll like him.
By Gale
February 20, 2009 10:26 AM | Link to this
Frustrated, I remember one time about a year ago, the weather guys were excited to the geek-out point with their computer models. The main talking person had to keep redirecting them to warn the listeners actually in imminent danger from the storm. I love people who love their work!
By USinUK
February 20, 2009 10:28 AM | Link to this
Bruno -
“Keep smiling, keep shining Knowing you can always count on me, for sure That’s what friends are for For/In good times and/in bad times I’ll be on your side forever more That’s what friends are for”
I la-la-LOVE that song - it’s the first one that popped in my head when we were talking about Dionne Warwick earlier this week.
“Geez—I’m changing your name from Polyanna to Lorena Bobbitt.”
hahahaha … “acknowledging a good point” was a softball (so to speak) - I couldn’t help myself
“Did you mean “ubiquitous”, rather than “omnipotent”??”
nope, I meant omnipotent - remember TOJ saying that “Mr. Postman” was on as background music yesterday?? it was because of the POWER of Karen Carpenter!
By Mara
February 20, 2009 10:29 AM | Link to this
Did you mean “ubiquitous”, rather than “omnipotent”?? We’ll have to have our resident lexicographer, Mara, weigh in on that one.
cool. I get to play with words!
I’ve gotta side with Bruno on this one. To paraphrase ol’ Inigo Montoya, “I do not think ‘omnipotent’ means what you think it means.” (godlike, all powerful) — On the other hand, ‘ubiquitous’ would not be the word I would have chosen, since it means that something is so common as to be unremarkable. Ubiguitious people are NOT subjects of conversation. I would choose something on the order of ‘popular’ or ‘interesting’ or even ‘remarkable’ :^) Thanks. That was fun!
Gale - My aquarian bluntness has often offended people when I meant no offense
I hear ya, sister. (sigh)
Bruno - Am I the only one who likes animals more than people?
Nope. You are not alone.
By Bruno
February 20, 2009 10:37 AM | Link to this
I would choose something on the order of ‘popular’ or ‘interesting’ or even ‘remarkable’ :^)
After I hit the post button, I realized that she probably meant “omnipresent”. WOuld that one work, Mara?
Nope. You are not alone.
Okay, my image of you is complete now, Mara—Renee Zellweger surrounded by cats, dogs, bunny rabbits and parakeets.
By American Woman
February 20, 2009 10:37 AM | Link to this
Gandalf, I DO NOT IDOLIZE the President. He is NOT my Lord and Savior. He DID do something amazing, though: he joined a club with only 43 members in 230+ years — a club that’s anything but easy to get into. He came from humble beginnings and what was at the time a controversial family situation (that some still claim violates the intended order of things), and worked his way to achieving goals bigger than most of us will ever have. He did it without Daddy’s money and Daddy’s friends’ money. He’s still working to achieve goals on our behalf, not sitting on his butt thinking he’s “won” and that’s all that matters.
Is he PERFECT? Heck no, he’s human. He has and will make mistakes. But unlike some of the GOP media heroes, I wish for him success, not failure… for ALL of us. Thanks for listening.
By The Other jack
February 20, 2009 10:40 AM | Link to this
USinUK
I wound up putting on the Right Rev. Al Green last night while I was making dinner … and DANG if they just don’t make music like that anymore. “Loooooooove, let’s stay together … loving you whether (whether) times are good or bad, happy or sad”
Well there’s another friggin’ download today. Do you work for i-tunes or something?
I … Am so in love with you … Whatever you want to do … is alright wiith me-e-e-e-e. You make me feel so brand new. I want to spend my life with you.
Man that’s some great stuff. Great music to dance close to, but still move to the music.
How do young people “court”, now days? Those songs were “inspiration”.
By Bruno
February 20, 2009 10:43 AM | Link to this
Speaking of “We Are The World”, the part of the song I DID like was done by Cyndi Lauper. I’m not 100% sure why, but I like her and enjoy her voice. Her version of “True Colors” was far better than the remake by Phil Collins.
By USinUK
February 20, 2009 10:43 AM | Link to this
Bruno -
“With the constant negative drumbeat coming from the press, and now Obama, it’s no wonder that everyone is so pessimistic.”
just to play devil’s advocate … (and leaving the bully pulpit of the president out of it for the moment) …
what should the media do? should they not report on the increased number of foreclosures? increases in unemployment? bank failures?
I understand where you’re coming from (we even had this as a topic of discussion about 9 months ago) - but don’t you think the news would be shirking its responsibility if they didn’t say what’s going on in the economy, and how its affecting business, etc??
I know you’re not suggesting that they only report shiney happy news, so I’m just wondering how you think they should handle the current economic situation.
now, the bully pulpit - I think there should be a “we have nothing to fear but fear itself” kind of tone — sort of a we’re in the mire right now, but if we all pull together, we can get through this. I always liked the way things were handled during WWII - fostering a “we’re all in this together” kind of feeling. Do you think that Obama should adopt that? what do you think he should do??
By Bruno
February 20, 2009 10:49 AM | Link to this
One more thing I like about you, Mara, is your name. Mara just seems to have a nice ring to it. In my case, I don’t particularly care for the name that my parents chose for me.
I’ve dated a number of girls with unusual names in the past. Probably the prettiest name of a past GF was “Krishna”—it just seems to roll off the tongue, even though Krishna is a male name in Hindu mythology.
USinUK—can you tease us and at least give out the first letter of your name??? Pretty please with sugar on top??
By JokesOn
February 20, 2009 10:50 AM | Link to this
So what kind of new career did you come up with, JokesOn?? I’m hunting for new ideas myself.
Sry, but you know I do not tip my hand on this blog. There is no accountability here, being an anonymous blog, as you have experience first hand. All I will say is I finished my MBA in the first .5year I have been away, and trained up on contract for the remaining 1.5 - mainly overseas while family took care of my affairs (hence why I could blog during normal hours, not unlike USinUK). Now I am set up for a good position in a cutting edge industry that is doing great and will be further boosted by the stimulus bill. What has me really jazzed though it isdirectly related to the welfare of people.
As for the power issue, the black race still has less power than the white race. Obama can shrug it off, but the rest of the black people get a clear message by such debasing remarks translating to “remember who GAVE you power and would take it away if possible.” No matter, it was degrading to a whole race and showed a lack of understanding and empathy that was clearly echoed by you and TOJ. All things are not yet equal in the world - but I also crave that day. I know what I do on a day-to-day basis as well as careeer affects it. How many people can say that?
By Mara
February 20, 2009 10:52 AM | Link to this
Thank you, American Woman, for saying what I’ve been thinking for a while now. I never quite got where the whole ‘messiah’ meme came from…
By Gale
February 20, 2009 10:53 AM | Link to this
Hey Bruno. for a small fee and a court order, you can change your given name. I did and you cannot believe the happiness it gave me.
By USinUK
February 20, 2009 10:54 AM | Link to this
Bruno and TOJ -
“Her version of “True Colors” was far better than the remake by Phil Collins.”
Phil Collins … blech blech blech … good drummer, but GAH!
check out the cover of Time after Time by Eva Cassidy … heck, check out ANYthing by Eva Cassidy - talk about a beautiful, pure voice. WHAT a loss that she died so young! (album recommendations: Live at Blues Alley, Songbird and - duh - Time after Time, her album of covertunes).
TOJ, if you’re downloading, go straight for Al G’s greatest hits - I’m surprised I haven’t worn the darn thing out.
and you ask a good question - what DO kids court to these days?? today’s R&B is more about “let me show you my entire vocal range in every song” (think Mariah Carey and her ilk) than actually singing the FEELING behind the song.
Give me Otis or the Rev. Al anyday.
(good god, I sound old … “kids these days with their hippity hoppity music and their MyPods”)
By Gandalf, the White!
February 20, 2009 10:55 AM | Link to this
ID doesn’t say we aren’t primates, just that a divine hand led to the subtle differences that make us perfect. As for Barry doing soming amazing, if being the greatest liar of all time is amazing, I’ll give that to ya. He is so incredibly horrible for this country that it’s pathetic that people still defend him. WAIT AND SEE, he will be worse that Jimmy “MR PLANTER’s HIMSELF” Carter. Billy would have made a better President!
By Bruno
February 20, 2009 10:57 AM | Link to this
now, the bully pulpit - I think there should be a “we have nothing to fear but fear itself” kind of tone — sort of a we’re in the mire right now, but if we all pull together, we can get through this. I always liked the way things were handled during WWII - fostering a “we’re all in this together” kind of feeling. Do you think that Obama should adopt that? what do you think he should do??
Thanks for answering your own question—I don’t think that I can top your answer here. Seriously. Bush was accused of using fear-mongering tactics to push his war agenda through. From my perspective, Obama and the Democratic Congress are now doing the same thing in order to reshape the economy along socialist/politically oriented lines.
By USinUK
February 20, 2009 10:59 AM | Link to this
Bruno and Mara -
No - I meant Omnipotent - the news and BBC2 radio plays Mr. Postman the same week we’re talking about the song on this board … coinkidink?? NO!! It’s the Power of Karen Carpenter!! she can command the playlists and the editors to do her bidding!!
;-)
By Bruno
February 20, 2009 11:02 AM | Link to this
Sry, but you know I do not tip my hand on this blog. There is no accountability here, being an anonymous blog, as you have experience first hand.
I hear you, bro’. Wise decision. I think what threw me off when I first started blogging is that in “real life”, I’m fairly well-known around Atlanta, so I’m not used to having to hide behind a wall of anonymity. You probably weren’t around at the time, USinUK, but I’ve had my name and home address published here by chuck, then Chilao , then lozen.
By USinUK
February 20, 2009 11:06 AM | Link to this
Bruno -
“USinUK—can you tease us and at least give out the first letter of your name??? Pretty please with sugar on top??”
you’re a menace … even giving you the first letter, you’d never guess it. and the reason that I don’t use my name on the board is because I am the only person I know if with my name - in fact, in my entire life, I’ve only heard of 1 other person with my name (although she pronounced it slightly differently) …
By Bruno
February 20, 2009 11:09 AM | Link to this
Phil Collins … blech blech blech … good drummer, but GAH!
You’re stepping on my toes now—I’m a HUGE fan of Genesis, and enjoy his solo work as well. Back in the mid 80s, when I was separated from my love-of-my-life GF, I used to play “One More Night” and get all teary-eyed.
As for get-her-in-the-mood music, I still rely on Luther Vandross.
Hey Bruno. for a small fee and a court order, you can change your given name. I did and you cannot believe the happiness it gave me.
For some reason, several people among my hippy friends have changed their names as well. I think that I’m too conservative to do that, however. I’d rather sulk.
By Gale
February 20, 2009 11:13 AM | Link to this
JokesOn, “lack of understanding and empathy”. I suppose I must plead nolo contendera (sp) on this issue. It is quite the same as men who do not “get it” when women find something offensive. Perhaps “who has the power” is most clearly defined by who is least likely to be unintentionally offended. Point being; what offends a white male that has other groups scratching their heads saying, huh?
(I’m sorry if my lame attempt to explain my view is offensive to otherwise empathic white males.)
By Gale
February 20, 2009 11:16 AM | Link to this
I don’t think I have ever been associated with hippies. :-)
By Bruno
February 20, 2009 11:18 AM | Link to this
you’re a menace
It took you this long to figure that out?
in fact, in my entire life, I’ve only heard of 1 other person with my name (although she pronounced it slightly differently) …
Now I’m REALLY intrigued. My ex-wife was the same way. When we finally heard of one other person who shared her name, she was upset.
By Lyrazel
February 20, 2009 11:21 AM | Link to this
USinUK, I am not Bruno but would enjoy a comment about the press and its ‘responsibility’ to us folks.
I wonder if you read any news articles about the impending housing bubble and instability of the banking system, mortgage sales prior to 2008? I remember scarce few commentaries about caution concerning over-inflated stock markets, irrational spending, overbuilding and the folks who said: best to put your $ in gold were written off as irrational. With gold at 900+ the kooks seem pretty sane.
I think the press can & will be bought—especially by their advertisers—those huge conglomerations that rely on frivolous public spending.
BC wants the media to be upbeat & says to the Prez—be happy—? Happy for what? For Alan Greenspan now realizing he thought bankers would behave honestly when allowed free reign? For so many people watching their life savings go bust? For so much unchecked imports, for 5 million job layoffs? Maybe it IS time for the American people to BE AFRAID of the irresponsible big guns who have blissfully led us to this cesspool of debt and open our eyes to the fact we cannot just trust.
Thank you
By The Other jack
February 20, 2009 11:25 AM | Link to this
USinUK
I have to get ready for an afternoon of hell meetings. And then tonight I have an edit session. Probably a long night.
Got a date for tomorrow and I already know her so it will probably go OK. Have a good weekend.
Joke
You really need to go and explain to all the Black people that completely occupy the Atlanta City Hall, The Fulton County Courthouse and the Dekalb County courthouse that they don’t have any power. For some crazy reason, they think that they run the whole friggin’ city. They think that they have the power to rezone any business in town, so they literally control every dime that is made by any corporation in town. They think that they completely control the biggest and busiest airport in the country. For some reason they have the crazy idea that they control millions and millions of dollars in city and county contracts. Imagine that.
They need to understand what you are saying about them not having as much power as white people. Can you do that for us all?
By USinUK
February 20, 2009 11:27 AM | Link to this
Bruno -
“You probably weren’t around at the time, USinUK, but I’ve had my name and home address published here by chuck, then Chilao , then lozen.”
ooo. foul ball. foul, foul ball.
“Bush was accused of using fear-mongering tactics to push his war agenda through. From my perspective, Obama and the Democratic Congress are now doing the same thing in order to reshape the economy along socialist/politically oriented lines”
I don’t think you can really compare the lies regarding WMD and assertions that “Saddam can nuke us all in 45 minutes” to the rising foreclosure and unemployment rates as well as the credit meltdown that actually IS happening around us.
but, yes, I would like to see more of this: “What is demanded then is a return to these truths. What is required of us now is a new era of responsibility — a recognition, on the part of every American, that we have duties to ourselves, our nation and the world, duties that we do not grudgingly accept but rather seize gladly, firm in the knowledge that there is nothing so satisfying to the spirit, so defining of our character than giving our all to a difficult task.”
please, sir, may I have some more???
By Bruno
February 20, 2009 11:28 AM | Link to this
I never quite got where the whole ‘messiah’ meme came from…
I think it began when the liberal press threw out all pretense of covering the Democratic primary, then the general election fairly. Didn’t several publications admit, post-fact, that they WERE overtly biased in their coverage.
As for campaign financing, I don’t see how using your own money, or family money, is any worse than financing it through donations from our enemies overseas. You know that Obama is NEVER going to come clean about that.
By Bruno
February 20, 2009 11:30 AM | Link to this
New topic is open.
By JokesOn
February 20, 2009 11:34 AM | Link to this
Wonderful cartoon sent to me by my nephew.
Does it remind anyone of a blogger we all know???hmmm
http:// xkcd.com/ 546/
By JokesOn
February 20, 2009 11:36 AM | Link to this
Can you do that for us all?
Anything for you sweetheart;) Your self created issues are mine to solve.
I’ll be right on it.
By USinUK
February 20, 2009 11:39 AM | Link to this
Lyra -
“I wonder if you read any news articles about the impending housing bubble and instability of the banking system, mortgage sales prior to 2008?”
actually, I vividly remember sitting in a traffic in Hfd back in 2005, listening to NPR and their report on Alan Greenspan saying “bubble? what bubble? there is some frothiness in the market, but no bubble”
what we didn’t read about were all the derivatives backing these mortgages … because, who knew??!! everyone thought as Greenspan and Bruno thought - that they were there to mitigate risk (which was their original intent), until we found out later that banks and companies like AIG were leveraged out the ying-yang on them.
in fact, I was in Atlanta driving out to the Dekalb farmers market with my best friend last March when we heard news about the Bear Stearns buyout - their massive hedge funds losses were about 9 months prior, so, even with all the HUGE losses being announced by banks all over the world starting in Q407 (UBS, Northern Rock, Bank of America, WaMu, etc), the buyout was a shock.
By Bruno
February 20, 2009 11:39 AM | Link to this
I remember scarce few commentaries about caution concerning over-inflated stock markets, irrational spending, overbuilding and the folks who said: best to put your $ in gold were written off as irrational. With gold at 900+ the kooks seem pretty sane.
Not to toot my own horn (which I would NEVER do, LOL), I was sounding the warning bells here on W2W as far back as 2007, Lyrazel. I did my best to encourage everyone to sell off their excess stacks and properties and to buy gold.
By Bruno
February 20, 2009 11:52 AM | Link to this
everyone thought as Greenspan and Bruno thought - that they were there to mitigate risk (which was their original intent), until we found out later that banks and companies like AIG were leveraged out the ying-yang on them.
If AIG had kept adequate reserves to cover any potential losses (which life insurance/property and casualty insurance companies are required to do by law), we probably wouldn’t be in as great of a mess as we are. Again, thank Phil Gramm and Bill Clinton for that one, although I’m sure that you will find a way to blame Bush.
By Bruno
February 20, 2009 11:57 AM | Link to this
actually, I vividly remember sitting in a traffic in Hfd back in 2005, listening to NPR and their report on Alan Greenspan saying “bubble? what bubble? there is some frothiness in the market, but no bubble”
And I guess you forgot about Barney Frank and Christopher Dodd testifying in 2004 that there were no problems going on at FreddieMac and FannieMae when Bush, McCain and others voiced concerns.
Blame the Republicans all you want, but it was Barney Frank who was in charge of the Finance Committee for the past 2+ years. He and Dodd were too busy accepting campaign contributions to express any concerns. ( I won’t hold my breath for any acknowledgment on that one, USinUK).
By Bruno
February 20, 2009 11:59 AM | Link to this
Gotta run, but the new topic is already a slam dunk for Shaunti. Andrea’s squirming is pathetic.
By JokesOn
February 20, 2009 12:02 PM | Link to this
Gale,
It is quite the same as men who do not “get it” when women find something offensive.
So, next time a degrading comment is made about women and you are offended, I’ll be sure to remind you that it is fine and not their responsibility to be empathetic. That IS your point, no?
Point being; what offends a white male that has other groups scratching their heads saying, huh?
My point exactly. Why do you think that there are no real names against white men that carry weight? Or are you suggesting that white males are somehow more adult and superior when it comes to insults compared to the rest of mankind’s races/colors/religious groups?
By USinUK
February 20, 2009 12:03 PM | Link to this
Bruno -
“If AIG had kept adequate reserves to cover any potential losses (which life insurance/property and casualty insurance companies are required to do by law) … although I’m sure that you will find a way to blame Bush.”
oh, Bruno … there you go again … don’t you know by now that I lay most of this mess at Alan Greenspan’s door? the man who spearheaded the fight against regulation of derivatives (joined by Summers - which is why I wasn’t too pleased at his appointment)
By Lyrazel
February 20, 2009 12:08 PM | Link to this
Bruno, So given what has been said, should Obama actually LISTEN to Clinton about false posturing happiness?
I think Bill has a hard time being retired.
Ok, I DO remember & keep it close a Calvin & Hobbs cartoon about Calvin selling lemonade for 15.00 because his stockholders demanded monstrous profit for their investment and when the one customer goes away he claims she is anti-business then appeals to mom for subsidy
…………………we grow too old to late smart
By Bruno
February 20, 2009 12:21 PM | Link to this
Bruno, So given what has been said, should Obama actually LISTEN to Clinton about false posturing happiness?
Again, Lyrazel, I think that in addition to hard-and-fast economic realities such as availability of credit, etc., that optimism/pessimism play a part in determining the direction of economy. As such, I think that Obama would better serve the people is he took a more Winston Churchill approach in his message to the American people as USinUK suggested. But what do I know?? I sold all my stocks and my commercial property over a year ago in anticipation of the current crash.
By Bruno
February 20, 2009 12:25 PM | Link to this
So what happened to the “message of hope” that Obama was supposed to bring us?? I say, bring back Bill Clinton!! Maybe we can get some of Chavez’s strongmen up here from Venezuela to repeal the term limits for the President.
By Gale
February 20, 2009 1:08 PM | Link to this
JokesON, “So, next time a degrading comment is made about women and you are offended, I’ll be sure to remind you that it is fine and not their responsibility to be empathetic. That IS your point, no?”
Not quite. I admitted that I was not empathic about an offense to blacks. My excuse being I haven’t lived it and don’t understand. It is not “fine” and I do try to understand and not commit the same offense again. In that sense, you are right. I am not black and I don’t know what might offend a black man unless I’m told. I don’t expect a man to understand what offends a woman until he is told. Once it is pointed out, it is polite to stop the offensive behavior, not repeat it because it amuses the offender.
By Frustrated
February 20, 2009 1:35 PM | Link to this
What if the cartoon was drawn by a black woman? Does it change opinion because of the skin color or sex of the artist?
Lyra—-This is a great question, in which no one answered…..
US, Jokes…anyone want to take a stab at it?
By Bruno
February 20, 2009 1:52 PM | Link to this
Lyra—-This is a great question, in which no one answered…..
The consensus from the liberal side of the aisle seemed to be that insults coming from within a group aren’t offensive, while those coming from outside of a group are. The consensus also seemed to be that because George Bush is a white male, that comparisons of him to a chimpanzee or Hitler can’t possibly be offensive, whoever is doing the insulting. Personally, I think offensive is offensive is offensive.
By Bruno
February 20, 2009 1:54 PM | Link to this
And since the new topic board never opened, here’s a news story from the yahoo home page today:
“Stocks have fallen steadily over the past two weeks as investors lost confidence in multiple Obama administration programs aimed at bolstering the economy. Just this week the government finalized two major initiatives, a massive fiscal stimulus package and a relief plan for homeowners.
“There’s perceived disappointment from the lack of clarity from the Treasury (Department) for what it will do with the financial sector,” said Wasif Latif, portfolio manager at USAA Investment Management Co. “That’s hitting financials regularly.”
Both Citi and Bank of America, which also got hammered on Thursday, have been among the hardest hit by the ongoing turmoil in the industry and received multiple multibillion investments from the government.
Citi shares tumbled 53 cents to $1.98 while Bank of America, which touched a 25-year low earlier in the day, sank 68 cents to $3.25.
As investors dropped out of stocks, safer instruments like Treasury debt and gold rose. The price of the benchmark 10-year Treasury note rose sharply, sending its yield down to 2.72 percent from 2.86 percent. Gold jumped 3 percent to $1,005.60 per ounce.”
By Mara
February 20, 2009 1:57 PM | Link to this
I’m disgusted with W2W. They put up a new topic but won’t let you post about it! Grrrrr.
Frustrated - What if the cartoon was drawn by a black woman? Does it change opinion because of the skin color or sex of the artist?—anyone want to take a stab at it?
first of all, I don’t see a black person ever drawing such a cartoon. Why? Because I can’t imagine any person, black or other, that’s even remotely familiar with the language of the civil rights era NOT having an internalized understanding of the historical racism behind ‘monkey = black’. Whether the cartoonist meant to equate the author of the stimulus package (it’s Obama’s Stimulus…) with a monkey, or MEANT to portray the men who shot him as white cops, I hesitate to say. But it certainly doesn’t take a kettle full of brains to see how it would be looked at by most in the black community.
personally, I was more concerned about the way it portrayed violence as an acceptable way to deal with political differences. Andy Sullivan had a post on his blog about this…“As many of us feared, it’s getting worse in defeat. As a reader noted, the real trouble with the New York Post cartoon - part from its lazy, dumb conflation of two completely unrelated stories - is that it presented gun violence as a legitimate response to an economic policy disagreement. The racism is so unconscious it’s sometimes more salient to observe the slide into legitimizing violence. Note Limbaugh’s latest populist excrescence, his description of his opponents as engaging in a kind of coup, or as rapists or murderers and Jihadist beheaders.
The right is going to become much more extreme as it becomes less relevant. There is a pattern to these things. You saw what was coming at those Palin rallies. As the economy worsens, as resentment against bail-outs for bankers and car-makers and reckless mortgage-owners swells, we are in for a very bumpy ride. I hope the Secret Service is beefing up.
By Gale
February 20, 2009 2:00 PM | Link to this
Frustrated, to take the cartoon commentary away from the chimp and directly into the area of a black woman cartoonist, I remember a commentary about one such that was apparently very popular… maybe in the Chicago area? I wish I’d seen some of the panels because she was dead on from the tone of the commentary. I think her work would go a long way in helping whites to understand the “black community”; maybe not when the originals were printed, but now. I think NPR had shown some of the panels on their web site. I want to say her cartoon character was named Rita. My memory is foggy. She was a young black woman with a younger sister. Do you or anyone else know what comic I’m talking about?
By Mara
February 20, 2009 2:03 PM | Link to this
explaination of the crisis —-
clusterflock.org/2009/02/crisis-of-credit.html
By Bruno
February 20, 2009 2:04 PM | Link to this
From Andy’s rebuttal:
“De facto GOP Leader Rush Limbaugh took a lot of flack when he admitted that he hopes the Obama presidency fails”.
I think that the Dems are trying to make a little too much political hay about Rush Limbaugh shooting his mouth off. I didn’t hear his original quote, or the context in which it was made, but I interpret his statement to mean that he is concerned about Obama’s overtly socialist goals whereby the government will have a hand in all aspects of our lives.
Personally, I think the liberal penchant for claiming that all Republicans are DittoHeads is a little far-fetched. I’ve only listened to the man once or twice in my life, and lost interest due to his constant self-promotion. I used to enjoy watching Hannity and Comes, but don’t care for the new format w/o Allen Comes.
By Gale
February 20, 2009 2:08 PM | Link to this
Ah, I found the cartoonist I was thinking of, Jackie Ormes. The character was not Rita, but Torchy Brown.
By Bruno
February 20, 2009 2:09 PM | Link to this
The right is going to become much more extreme as it becomes less relevant. There is a pattern to these things. You saw what was coming at those Palin rallies. As the economy worsens, as resentment against bail-outs for bankers and car-makers and reckless mortgage-owners swells, we are in for a very bumpy ride. I hope the Secret Service is beefing up.
Well, hopefully, Mara, the sensible voices of opposition within the Republican Party won’t be drowned out by the few hysterical ones. Many, many people, like myself, have grave reservations about the direction that Obama is leading us. I’ll do my best to avoid the inflammatory language which is garnering all of the news attention right now.
By Bruno
February 20, 2009 2:32 PM | Link to this
Mara—Excellent link explaining the credit crisis. And while USinUK and others want to lay all of the blame at the feet of the large financial institutions, at the bottom level of the crisis are homebuyers who should have known that they were buying a house that they couldn’t afford, dishonest appraisers who attached inflated values to homes on the market, and dishonest bond rating companies who gave AAA ratings to large bundles of mortgages that only deserved a BBB rating or worse.
Regardless of how we got into this mess, the bottom line is that a lot of folks bought houses that aren’t worth the original sales price. And from my understanding of basic capitalism, there is nothing the government or anyone else can do to artificially restore the over-inflated values to these homes. Only the market can do that, and it will likely take a long, long time for that to happen. It is possible that we Americans may never achieve the high standard of living we all enjoyed in the late 1990s and early 2000s. If that happens, then we will just have to adjust. The bottom line is that there is no easy, government-driven solution to this crisis, which is why I don’t support Obama’s vision of Big Brother fixing it all by printing more money.
By Gale
February 20, 2009 2:52 PM | Link to this
Sheila Bair commented on the bailout yesterday. What I thought I heard was: She admitted that as a homeowner, she doesn’t like the solutions. As a citizen trying to straighten out the mess, she thinks it is all we can do. I got a visual of trying to pull foolish neighbors out of quicksand when there were clear signs not to tred there. We don’t want them to sink, but we are going to get muddy helping them out.
By Bruno
February 20, 2009 2:56 PM | Link to this
The new board is finally open, guys.
By Lyrazel
February 20, 2009 3:28 PM | Link to this
Um, Mara don’t you feel Andy is a bit guilty of fear-mongering? What difference is his: The right is going to become much more extreme as it becomes less relevant. There is a pattern to these things. You saw what was coming at those Palin rallies… than the classic rhetoric of Rush, et. al? OOOOOooo the evil left, the evil right, those wicked centrists, idiot libertarians, crazy socialists……. Frankly I am bored with the rhetoric of pundits.
I do not feel everyone who attended a Republican stump speech to be smoes without shirtsleeves with their gun-toting mamas. I DO feel that the media made Palin supporters into wackos—by limiting articulate speakers from their audiences interviewed for camera time. I feel Palin was the WRONG choice for McCain and also because McCain never could speak without checking PARTY rhetoric and that galled me more than Palin; because of this I voted elsewhere . One does not become a knowledgeable voter by not listening to all sides.
Bruno, part of the mess is the fact the 1990s-2000s were so glorious was based on fabrications & falseness brought by institutions that are crumbling now. Had there been more scrutiny of Standard & Poors ratings, et. al, and less fudging with the numbers to facilitate bad loans those people would still be renting, there would have been no housing boom and banks & shareholders would not have made as much profit. WE WANTED THE MONEY!!!!!!!!!