AJC.com > Opinion > Woman to Woman > Archives > 2008 > October > 24 > Entry
What must John McCain’s endgame strategy be?
Shaunti Feldhahn, a right-leaning columnist, writes the commentary this week and Andrea Cornell Sarvady, a left-leaning columnist, responds.
Commentary
At this point, John McCain’s message must be entirely about buyer’s remorse. Barack Obama is the least-experienced presidential candidate in modern history, has never had to handle a crisis, and would take office in the middle of an economic crisis that he is unqualified to manage. If he wins, the markets will likely show serious pessimism, and the average American will likely suffer a serious case of buyer’s remorse.
The next time there is a national security issue, the buyer’s remorse will get even worse. And if election night delivers a Democratic filibuster-proof supermajority in Congress and the Senate, the markets and the economy - and the Supreme Court — will be in for some rough years ahead.
McCain’s endgame strategy must be to hammer that message in advance. As much as it infuriates me that the media has helped Obama by light investigating and friendly questions, that can’t be helped. And as much as it should raise red flags that Obama went back on his word about accepting public funding, and now has a massive cash advantage to spend as he likes, that can’t be helped either.
McCain must go back to the “celebrity” message that is the heart of the issue: yes, Obama is an amazing speaker, yes, I know you love him - but we’re in a crisis here and I’m the only one with experience.
In an interview, Dr. David Woodard, Thurmond Chair of Government at Clemson University and co-author of “Why We Whisper,” said he can’t remember a time when a candidate came back from this far behind, this close to the election. The closest parallel was 1976 when Gerald Ford came from far behind and almost won.
Woodard explained, “Ford began with disadvantages, much like McCain is. Ford had pardoned [Richard] Nixon, had a bad economy, but in the last week or 10 days, he really closed the gap and almost caught up by hammering [Jimmy] Carter’s inexperience. As the election draws near, if voters have questions about a candidate and the race is close, there are often drops in confidence. Raising those questions in voter’s minds could be effective here at the end.”
The polls, markets and pundits are all predicting an Obama win - but if McCain focuses on the “experience” message, he might still do what Ford could not.
Rebuttal
Wow. The Republican machine clearly finds John McCain utterly uninspiring; their hopes for a win seem to focus solely on tearing down his opponent. Extremists in the party tag Barack Obama as a Muslim, a terrorist and—this just in!—a socialist. Others are simply hoping you’ll see the Democrat as a slick pol with nothing to offer but the gift of gab.
It’s too bad McCain’s team has focused so relentlessly on this approach because it’s just not working. The terrorist/Muslim message is too easily dismantled, and the economy is proving to be an Obama strong suit. Moreover, the only buyer’s remorse so far concerns the pick of Sarah Palin over far more qualified VP candidates.
In effect, McCain has already made two presidential decisions— his choice of a running mate and his response during the recent bailout crisis. Neither action demonstrates sound judgment in the pressure-filled environment faced by presidents. A recent ABC poll shows that over half of all likely voters say the Palin pick makes them less confident in McCain’s judgment. Meanwhile, Obama’s impressive lead post-bailout indicates that an economic meltdown requires thoughtful examination, not a meaningless publicity stunt.
So what now? McCain could try leaping on the issue of checks and balances, to see if he can create fear around a filibuster-proof Democratic majority. Of course, to play that card he’ll have to throw his party under the bus, admitting they’re being trounced on all fronts. Yet what’s he got to lose? If McCain doesn’t win, the GOP bus is all revved up and ready to roll right over him.
A better endgame strategy? McCain could help us envision the diverse group of experts he would surround himself with for the next four years. Real-America Americans—that would be all of us, Gov. Palin— appreciate the bipartisan support Obama receives from Warren Buffet, Paul Volcker and Colin Powell. Conversely, we’ve yet to receive a unifying message from McCain’s increasingly erratic campaign. The man who once thought nothing of reaching across the aisle while slapping down his own party is long gone, losing the very centrists who will probably decide this election.
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Comments
By Mara
October 24, 2008 2:53 PM | Link to this
LOL!! His “endgame startegy”? Uh, wouldn’t that be his concession speech? HA!
But seriously, unless he can get some love from Diebolt and Sequoia his chances of needing any kind of strategy seem to be pretty slim. Nate Silver is one of the most accurate statisticians in the world and he’s got Obama projected to win 344 electoral votes, seventy-four more than the 270 needed to win the election. John McCain is projected to get only 193 electoral votes.
Yeah, yeah, I know…there’re lies, d-mn lies, and statistics, but Silver is pretty good at aggragating the polls and his “street cred” is pretty darn impressive.
By Stra-tee-gery
October 24, 2008 3:12 PM | Link to this
Is THIS part of McCranky’s endgame strategy? “Vote for McCain because black people are mean and scary?” Whoa, they really ARE out of ideas!
Breaking news from the Associated Press:
Pittsburgh police say a McCain campaign volunteer made up a story of being robbed, pinned to the ground and having the letter “B” scratched on her face in a politically inspired attack.
Maurita Bryant, the assistant chief of the police department’s investigations division, says 20-year-old Ashley Todd is being charged with making a false report to police.
Todd, of College Station, Texas, initially said a black man robbed her at knifepoint Wednesday night and then cut her cheek after seeing a McCain sticker on her car.
By Chilao
October 24, 2008 3:21 PM | Link to this
But seriously, unless he can get some love from Diebolt and Sequoia
don’t underestimate the company who “guaranteed” a Bush win in Ohio in 2004, the guarantee given two weeks before the election.
to quote Joseph Stalin: “He who casts the vote decides nothing. He who counts the vote decides everything”.
But if the American voters think the past years of GOP control have been the greatest thing since sliced bread, McCain will win. However…..(LOL). There have been four Presidential elections where the popular vote winner did not win the Electoral College win.
USinUK - thanks for the Bryson recommend. I just finished Notes from a Small Island and it brought back lots of memories, and was funny as well.
By Tamika
October 24, 2008 3:36 PM | Link to this
The End game strategy is to begin the Celebration of Barack Obama as president!!
10 days until the greatest day in American History!!!
By The Forgotten Messiah.
October 24, 2008 3:51 PM | Link to this
McCain 08. Straight talkin’ ‘bout crooked things.
By hahaha
October 24, 2008 4:01 PM | Link to this
Well, Tamika…it won’t be the GREATEST day in history, but it will go down in history as the day the USA died. If you want socialized medicine, handouts (even more than you are probably already getting from welfare…he’s going to give you money from the rich!), etc., then you deserve what you get. Please tell me “Tamika”…what does Obama stand for? I mean, we all know he’s for CHANGE…but what is that change, and will it benefit everyone? It’s changing the fact that if you earn more than “your share”, you will have to share it with those that are too damned lazy to work for it…people, I’m sure, that are just like you. No wonder you want him in office. But think about the long run. Read what he is REALLY saying…stop voting color, and vote experience. Even his own running mate has said if he is elected, it will be a mistake.
By Bruno
October 24, 2008 4:03 PM | Link to this
For me, it still comes down to the lesser of two evils = McCain.
C U all next week.
By hahaha
October 24, 2008 4:14 PM | Link to this
I’m sorry for being an idiot and for being the only person to bring “race” into this blog. My line of thinking is the very reason conservatives have lost control and respect!
Biden NEVER said electing Obama will be a mistake, he did say, “Obama will be tested and that he has steal in his spine and will do just fine”
I’m sorry for attempting to use race and scare tactics and mis-quoting Senator Biden, I hate to contribute to the Republican downfall and may the best man win!
By Tamika
October 24, 2008 4:14 PM | Link to this
All you repubiclicans need to get over the fact That OBAMA will be one of the greatest presidents ever. There will not be enough republicans voting in this election to come close to stopping Obama. Obama is going to win by the biggest electoral landslide since Ronald Reagan. He will transform America into a socially more responsible society.
OABAMA WINS 2008
By Lukas Cashoton
October 24, 2008 4:17 PM | Link to this
You Americans Are very Odd people.
You go from a crazy man George W Bush to about to elect a Communist Barack Obama???
I came from communist Poland. Why are you all want socialism??
You all are going to regret this dearly.
Good Luck to you all— your going to need it the next 4 years.
By Gandalf, the Grey
October 24, 2008 4:20 PM | Link to this
Tamika? Did you mean “The End game strategy is to begin the Celebration of Barry Obama’s presidency?” Those of us who have know him since High School call him Barry…and he’s a DUM BASS liberal! SO watch your wallet snapperhead! He’s is coming for your money to give it to the lazy sob that doesn’t have any!
By My Only Fear
October 24, 2008 4:20 PM | Link to this
McCain get’s elected, has a heart attack as he’s being sworn in and for the next 4 years we have President Sarah Palin, that’s scarier than the Economy and terrorists!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
By Tamika
October 24, 2008 4:20 PM | Link to this
If your not spending the money why do you need it. may as well be taken and given to someone that does need it!
By USinUK
October 24, 2008 4:21 PM | Link to this
Chilao -
USinUK - thanks for the Bryson recommend. I just finished Notes from a Small Island and it brought back lots of memories, and was funny as well.
huzzah! I’m glad you enjoyed it - if you liked that, try Notes from a Big Country - it’s a series of columns he wrote upon his move back to the US. it, too, is a great read.
and welcome back to the board - you’ve been missed!! glad to see you and Mara both back in circulation :-)
By Gandalf, the Grey
October 24, 2008 4:24 PM | Link to this
Tamika! HE WILL BE an OBAMANATION! He will be as bad as Jimmy Carter! We will be the laughing stock of the world with no jobs and no growth! He may be impeached! We will be poor! Barry sucks donkey balls! YEAH!
By Tamika
October 24, 2008 4:24 PM | Link to this
Lukas—
barack Obama is not a communist. That is just a scare tactic used by Republicans!!! Isn’t ita a Republican GW Bush Nationalizing our Banks right now…. That is a socialist!!
Barack Obama the Great will save the World and Bring World Peace!!
By Ned Neddlelender
October 24, 2008 4:26 PM | Link to this
I am voting for my Dog Spot— i hate the choices this year.
Tamika get a life!!
By Tamika
October 24, 2008 4:29 PM | Link to this
* I am going to celebrate Obama’s win tonight— I am going to get so drunk on joy and malt— I love you obama!! I am so excited that Opra will be in your cabinat too. I goto go now time for a moke*
By Gandalf, the Grey
October 24, 2008 4:30 PM | Link to this
NOBAMA! He is too too socialist for us in the US! Don’t do it! It’s a huge mistake! PLEASE come to your senses!
By RealityKing
October 24, 2008 4:31 PM | Link to this
Harry, Nancy, Obama, an international crisis and Joe desperately trying to keep them from running the other way, all within the first 6 months of next year… B very afraid.
By Tamika
October 24, 2008 4:32 PM | Link to this
Obama will not be impeached — He is going to create 5 million Green jobs. We wont be importing oil any more. And he will save the planet from being destroyed by Global Warmness.
You just hate the fact the there is NO STOPPING AND OBAMA WIN!!!!!
By Gandalf, the Grey
October 24, 2008 4:34 PM | Link to this
T-mike! YOUR A DUMBASS!
By Ronald Reagan
October 24, 2008 4:36 PM | Link to this
I will be back in 4 years to save you all from the Obama mess.
I love you all.
God Bless America— the greatest nation ever in th ehistory of the planet until Obama wins.
Move to Canada
By Marty the Christian
October 24, 2008 4:39 PM | Link to this
Obama is the anti christ-
How in god’s name can a man like this be elected to the hite house by 51% of the people.
Thanks George Bush and Dick Cheney for being such an incompitanat SOB’s and leaving us with Obama.
By Tamika
October 24, 2008 4:41 PM | Link to this
I am getting new boobs and a new booty with the money Oabma is going to give me
By American Girl
October 24, 2008 4:41 PM | Link to this
Yikes is afraid of riots. Are you afraid that white folks will riot if Obama wins? If not, maybe you should more closely examine the basis for your fears.
Riots will only happen if this election is stolen by Diebold and pals. In such a case, I will be one of the peaceful civil disobedients who will be sitting down in the streets of DC. Won’t you all join me? The right to vote is a fundamental AMERICAN right. I will not have my vote stolen.
As for what Obama and McCain stand for, let’s lose personalties and just talk issues.
One side believes it’s good for America if rich people get tax breaks, and everyone else like you and me are on our own for things like health care and retirement. They also thinks it’s fine to occupy a foreign country that didn’t attack us. Forever.
The other side believes that $1 billion in enough for any one person, and that very rich people should maybe pay a little more so that you and I can retire someday and not have to eat cat food for dinner, and so that your granny isn’t put out on the street if she needs a hip replacement. They think it’s not okay to occupy a foreign country that didn’t attack us, especially when it costs $10 billion a month to keep troops there.
Which do you believe? I’m for way #2. And that’s Obama.
By American Girl
October 24, 2008 4:42 PM | Link to this
Yikes is afraid of riots. Are you afraid that white folks will riot if Obama wins? If not, maybe you should more closely examine the basis for your fears.
Riots will only happen if this election is stolen by Diebold and pals. In such a case, I will be one of the peaceful civil disobedients who will be sitting down in the streets of DC. Won’t you all join me? The right to vote is a fundamental AMERICAN right. I will not have my vote stolen.
As for what Obama and McCain stand for, let’s lose personalties and just talk issues.
One side believes it’s good for America if rich people get tax breaks, and everyone else like you and me are on our own for things like health care and retirement. They also thinks it’s fine to occupy a foreign country that didn’t attack us. Forever.
The other side believes that $1 billion in enough for any one person, and that very rich people should maybe pay a little more so that you and I can retire someday and not have to eat cat food for dinner, and so that your granny isn’t put out on the street if she needs a hip replacement. They think it’s not okay to occupy a foreign country that didn’t attack us, especially when it costs $10 billion a month to keep troops there.
Which do you believe? I’m for way #2. And that’s Obama.
By Bill Cambell
October 24, 2008 4:43 PM | Link to this
I am excited about working for Obama!!
By USinUK
October 24, 2008 4:43 PM | Link to this
chuckles -
You are perfectly willing to allow America’s ENEMIES to have free reign (i.e. no UN inspections, no conditions on discussions, etc) because we know they would never provide nukes to terrorists or do anything to try to kill American soldiers, but those EVIL CORPORATIONS who give billions of dollars to charity, provide all of the non-governmental jobs in America, and pay a third of all the taxes in America just can’t be trusted.
keepyerpantieson … that’s not at all what I said.
YOU said you don’t want to regulate our enemies - regulation, by definition, is a law established by an authority to regulate conduct. in that case, no, I do not want the US to unilaterally go around setting laws by which other countries should abide.
now, if those countries such as Iran and North Korea sign a multilateral agreement such as — oh, say — a nuclear non-proliferation treaty, for instance, then, yes, I’m all for INTERNATIONAL GOVERNING BODIES to do inspections.
not that I expect you to grasp the subtle differences between those two scenarios.
as far as the corporations - you seem to conveniently overlook all the toxins and garbage produced by those corporations, all the jobs that they send overseas and all the taxes that they don’t pay when they move their headquarters to … say … Bermuda.
are they evil? no, of course not - but, as I said, they’ll screw anyone or anything for a short-term gain, which is why they need to be regulated.
By dawgjammin
October 24, 2008 4:45 PM | Link to this
IF Obama is elected…get ready for the last days of the Bible….Revelations people. Anti-christ end of the world type stuff. If Obama is elected, count on Israel bombing the hell out of Iran because they know Obama will do nothing to slow down the nuclear proliferation efforts of Iran. Then Obama will be presiding over 3 wars: Iraq, Iran and Afganistan. Endgame? How about End of Times? To quote Chris Rock….RUN TO CHURCH
By Tamika
October 24, 2008 4:46 PM | Link to this
ALERT
ALERT
After reading your responnces I am NO LONGER SUPPORTING OBAMA
I REPEAT I AM NO LONGER VOTING OBAMA
I am now voting for Mr. Hanky
By jeed
October 24, 2008 4:49 PM | Link to this
By Gandalf, the Grey
Tamika! HE WILL BE an OBAMANATION! … We will be the laughing stock of the world
Are you exposed to “the world” and what it/they already think of us? Obviously not. Go overseas and talk to people. You’ll see that GW took care of your “laughing stock” prediction LONG ago.
By BudManNot
October 24, 2008 4:49 PM | Link to this
Notice all this talk now about the potential “Democratic super majority” in the Congress…
It dawned on me the RNC is now running a campaign with the underpinnings of affirmative action. I mean think about it…. They are resorting to this tactic out of desperation and want people to not vote their conscience or preference, but rather to maintain a reasonable amount of Republican representation lest the governance of the country become severely unbalanced (in their view).
Never mind that we have an electoral system that says, “the winner gets the office”. I say how about fair competition and let the winner take the spoils. They hate affirmative action, unless it is set up for their benefit. The arrogance of a party who has no problem whatsoever when they have the majority of the Congress for 6 years as well as the presidency (because of course they have all the right ideas), but don’t think it to be proper for the other party to have the same right if it wins.
By Putting it on the line
October 24, 2008 4:53 PM | Link to this
Shaunti, I was an investigative journalist, working for a major news organization and have voted for both Democrats and Republicans and see no reason to discontinue that. I vote for the candidate not the party. To see the grossly unfair coverage of this campaign by the media makes me glad to be retired from it. Obama didn’t need to outraise McCain. He got positive coverage and McCain has gotten negative coverage and it has been blatant. I weep for journalism.
By Carlos
October 24, 2008 4:54 PM | Link to this
You gringos are so crazy! You spend all you time attacking Obama supporters—a man that loves America. In the meantime as a Spanish speaking person, my people are just sitting back waiting. While you attack, we keep coming across the border. We are young,strong, and will elect a Spanish President in the future. Next, we will get our land back you stole in the Louisana Purchase.
By USinUK
October 24, 2008 4:58 PM | Link to this
Brunooooooooooo -
We’re all guilty of that, hon. Are you saying that you’re not? If not, then maybe I need to adopt two new Messiahs, you and chuckles.
I try not to boost myself by putting others down … yes, we all fall prey to that particular sin - I guess it’s all in 1) if you at least try to fight and and 2) how hard you put up said fight.
The bottom line is that ALL corporate decisions are made by human beings. As such, I think it would be more accurate to say that PEOPLE will screw over their customers and neighbors for short-term gain.
well, I don’t think that buildings are making the decisions - of course it’s people. the problem is that the system is set up to reward short-term gains at the price of long-term gains.
And while you “lefties” like to fantasize that only e-e-evil conservatives/Republicans are capable of such behaviors, my experience in life is a little different. In the case of the “mortgage crisis”, it is a FACT that the executives of FannieMae and FreddieMac lavished Democrats such as John Kerry, Chris Dodd, and Barrack Obama with hundreds upon hundreds of thousands of dollars in campaign contributions
first of all, chuck was the one who brought up left/right - not me. secondly, Fannie and Freddie are NOT the cause of the current problems. they did not ORIGINATE the loans - the banks did - THE BANKS are the root of the problem. following that, the RATING AGENCIES paid no attention to what was being bundled, essentially rating crap mortgages as AAA. Fannie and Freddie just got caught in the crap-storm without enough capitalization to cover said crap.
Two words for you , USinUK—Caveat Emptor. It’s just as true today as it was a few thousand years ago.
which doesn’t apply in the case of derivatives. the current problem we have is that no one knows exactly how much anyone else is exposed to CDS - banks, in particular. this is because there is no one central clearinghouse and no one central regulator. caveat emptor applies when you’re buying a used car, not across a market worth TRILLIONS.
Out of curiosity, Gale, do you feel like there is a double-standard in the media re: Sarah Palin in focusing on her clothing and makeup?? I don’t recall seeing any similar analysis of the cost of any of the other candidates’ clothing, including Hillary Clinton’s. While $150,000 for clothing sounds like a lot of money to us working stiffs, it is just a drop in the bucket of the total campaign costs
Four. Hundred. Dollar. Haircut.
as for them asking other candidates about who pays for their clothes, even today Biden was asked who pays for his suits - he said that he did. and Hillary’s wardrobe was reviewed, discussed and analysed to death - even to the point of the WaPo doing a full article on her cleavage. And, don’t you remember when Pelosi took over as Speaker - LOADS of articles about her suits.
The big issue here is $150K of CAMPAIGN money went to personal attire (it’s illegal to use campaign money for personal expenses) - and the fact that it was $150K … daaaaaaaaaaaayum, that’s a lot of dough - and, as I said yesterday, doesn’t help the GOP portray itself as “fiscally conservative”
By Chilao
October 24, 2008 5:00 PM | Link to this
stat heard somewhere the last day or so, probably NPR.
the non-partisan (some tax research group, the name escapes me but it is a well-known one, of course the names all sound the same) came out with 80 percent of Americans will do better, tax-wise, with Obama’s tax plan, and 20 percent will do better with McCain’s.
But we all want our (employer) health-insurance premiums taxed, right?
USinUK - I am here briefly, having slack time. I have been busier the past few months than I have been in previous years. So busy I am not even up-to-date on current affairs, I did not learn about the Lohan/UglyBetty thing until today! (LMAO).
and the forehead “B” in Pittsburgh, seems that happened a few days ago as well.
By No Love
October 24, 2008 5:00 PM | Link to this
There is a sick assumption that every African-American is voting for Senator Obama. Black people comprise of about 15% of the U.S. population. Even if every registered black person were to vote for Obama, it still wouldn’t be enough votes to put him in the White House. My message is for the individuals on this blog who believe that all Black people will put Obama in the white house. It is not Black people who will put Obama in the White House, it is White people. So please talk to your white brothers and sisters about why they are voting for Obama and leave Black people out of this -since there isn’t enough of black votes to put him in the White house, without white votes.
By Concerned oldtimer
October 24, 2008 5:07 PM | Link to this
It is all a mess. I am just worried about my retirement. Most of these comments are foolish.
By Bruno
October 24, 2008 5:09 PM | Link to this
Next, we will get our land back you stole in the Louisana Purchase.
I guess History isn’t your strong suit, Carlos. Maybe you meant the Mexican-American War?? The Louisiana Purchase was from the French, who stole the land from Native Americans.
as far as the corporations - you seem to conveniently overlook all the toxins and garbage produced by those corporations, all the jobs that they send overseas and all the taxes that they don’t pay when they move their headquarters to … say … Bermuda. are they evil? no, of course not - but, as I said, they’ll screw anyone or anything for a short-term gain, which is why they need to be regulated.
Corporations = the people running them, USinUK. Maybe I’m splitting hairs, but it’s more accurate to speak of the decisions made by the people running them rather than referring to them as humanless automatons.
By Chilao
October 24, 2008 5:10 PM | Link to this
Carlos - are you sure you don’t mean The Mexican War in 1848?
a little Spanish/French history as it relates to the Louisiana Purchase lands: The link I got this from had a nice little map showing Spanish ownership of the Louisiana Purchase lands before the French had it(again).
The Seven Years War, in which England and Prussia triumphed over France, Austria, and Russia, concluded in 1763. That year, the Treaty of Paris gave England control of French Canada as well as Florida.
In the same treaty, France gave Spain all of LaSalle’s claim of 1682, which created a Spanish empire in the Western Hemisphere that extended all the way from the 50th parallel in North America to Cape Horn at the southern tip of South America.
Twenty years later, in 1783, Great Britain gave back to Spain all the territory east of the Mississippi and south of the 31st parallel. Then, in 1800, by the “secret” Treaty of San Ildelfonso, Spain gave all of LaSalle’s Louisiana back to France, including “the Floridas,” which Spain had claimed since 1492.
By Average Joe
October 24, 2008 5:16 PM | Link to this
I keep hearing people say things like Obama’s a socialist, he’s a communist. These are the same people who are loosing money in wall street, getting their homes forclosed or getting laid off. Don’t you see whats happening here? It has been the republicans for the past eight years and now we finally have a candidate who will restore peace to our country and make it a better place for all, but people are too afraid to vote for him B/C he is the wrong color. Are you afraid his being elected will help too many black people. Do you feel as if they don’t deserve a chance at the American Dream. Not just black people but all people. It is such a big deal that people on Wall Street are loosing money, but what about us average people. We don’t have any money to loose! Obama represents the majority of Americans, whether you want to believe it or not, and its about time we elect someone who has all of our best interest in mind. OBAMA 08! Its time for a shift of power!!!!
By Average Joe
October 24, 2008 5:29 PM | Link to this
I keep hearing people say things like Obama’s a socialist, he’s a communist. These are the same people who are loosing money in wall street, getting their homes forclosed or getting laid off. Don’t you see whats happening here? It has been the republicans for the past eight years and now we finally have a candidate who will restore peace to our country and make it a better place for all, but people are too afraid to vote for him B/C he is the wrong color. Are you afraid his being elected will help too many black people. Do you feel as if they don’t deserve a chance at the American Dream. Not just black people but all people. It is such a big deal that people on Wall Street are loosing money, but what about us average people. We don’t have any money to loose! Obama represents the majority of Americans, whether you want to believe it or not, and its about time we elect someone who has all of our best interest in mind. OBAMA 08! Its time for a shift of power!!!!
By troy
October 26, 2008 8:44 AM | Link to this
impluisve, erratic, a none coherent message, overly exaggerated record, a horrible choice for a running mate = mccain. the reason why mccain is losing is simply because he does not know how to campaign. americans do not want to hear about a candidate being a celebrity they want to hear about fixing the economy and so far mccain has not been able to deliver.
By The Other Jack
October 26, 2008 8:44 AM | Link to this
Wow. I leave for a day or two and the place turns into a liberal convention.
Tamike, it is good that you are here. We just didn’t have a representative of that demographic that would dare post things like this:
If your not spending the money why do you need it. may as well be taken and given to someone that does need it!
and
He is going to create 5 million Green jobs. We wont be importing oil any more. And he will save the planet from being destroyed by Global Warmness.
Global warmness? No more imported oil, huh? You sure know a lot about how the world works. LOL.
I am getting new boobs and a new booty with the money Oabma is going to give me
And that would be that money that we don’t need that we should give to people that need it. LOL.
At least you are honest about it. And kind hearted liberals, this is what you are voting for. Obama is going to take your money and give it to Tamika so she can get her butt fixed. LOL!! Aren’t you proud?
Tamika, I have a feeling that you could make a commercial for McCain Palin that would flip the polls, that is if the truth were allowed to be told.
By The Other Jack
October 26, 2008 8:51 AM | Link to this
USinUK
I’m back. The end of an era, or error. Depends on your point of view.
It’s good to be back in good old rude Atlanta. I was beginning to think that strangers should be polite. A quick trip to Kroger this morning slapped me back into reality.
Oh yeah, that problem I had with my central air? Apparently the air and heat comes from the same system. Imagine that. Looks like I won’t be getting that new HD camera for a while. They will be here on Monday to replace my whole system. OUCH!!
Welcome back, Jack.
By The Other Jack
October 26, 2008 9:01 AM | Link to this
Putting it on the line
I have been a field producer and a videographer. Been a film maker and a media consultant for several years now. It is stunning seeing the difference in accepted journalism. And the crazy thing is that I have seen many liberals on the very liberal networks that are openly admitting the bias.
It will probably level off once they install their candidates. It always does, but man, they have certainly lost a lot of credibility.
I am predicting some very “in-depth” pieces on their own bias after the election. That way, they can claim to be fair. LOL
By TJW
October 26, 2008 9:37 AM | Link to this
I have seen some of the least experienced people do the best job, performing far above and beyond the more ‘qualified’ people, mainly because they have the drive and determination to prove they can do the job. I’m happy to take a chance with Obama, because I know where McCain will lead us…
Thought 1: Trickle down economics do not work… The top end of the companies just get to pocket more money, expecially since we’re looking at some prime examples of corruption and ‘indiscretion’ right now.
Thought 2: The tax system is amazingly bloated, taking something like a 3 foot high stack of books to document, and IT WAS WRITTEN BY THE WEALTHY! It contains tons of loopholes for exempting money for the super-rich. If the middle class wants more fair taxes, this is the first thing that needs to go!
Thought 3: Obama will not be giving us a socialist medical system, we already have one! You go to the hospitol, they are REQUIRED to treat you, whether you can pay or not… and who do you think pays for all the people who can’t? Yeap, those with Insurance, as the hospitol simply absorbs the loss and rolls it into the cost of the items it claims against your insurance. Who pays the cost - YOU DO!
By Dela Solenas
October 26, 2008 10:38 AM | Link to this
Why does *Andrea *have to use three names, to feel better about herself, *Penis envy *maybe ? If we elect “AlahBama” God Help us.
By Dela Solenas
October 26, 2008 10:39 AM | Link to this
Why does *Andrea *have to use three names, to feel better about herself?, *Penis envy *maybe ? If we elect “AlahOBama” God Help us.
By GT
October 26, 2008 11:14 AM | Link to this
I was feeling some of the same emotions for Bush the last two elections I now am feeling for McCain. I voted for Bush. I now wish I hadn’t. The Republican Party has lost touch. It is the perfect place for hate groups and greedy interest to find love. We talk of Obama lining us up for something scary. Look around and you will see something scary right here in front of you. I use to think Carter was the worst president in my lifetime, but Bush has stubbornly surpassed that bar. He has had to placate the same bunch of nuts that McCain will be indebted to. When Carter came to office it was his unwillingness to extend his circle beyond the inner circle he showed up with. Obama has already showed that will not be the case when he is elected. Carter trusted no one isolated himself from Washington, insulted them to the point they were out to get him. Bush has managed that on his foreign policies, written a book for future presidents of what not to do. McCain brags of being a maverick along with his little sister, who is the pittbull with lipstick. It is time in this country that all these stunts are put back in the bag. That landing on aircraft carriers and cowboy hats and tough talking saying nothing needs to stop. It is time for leadership and some respect, it is time for our leaders to start acting like adults. It is time to stop the cocky sarcasm and answer the questions ask to you straight, show an ability to speak English,and to stop looking down at people with no real explanation why you have that right. It time to stop using plumbers and smart alert women as an example of support for you as if the majority of those kinds are better off with you being elected. The Democrats use to be the lowest denominator in weak character, but to my disbelief the Republicans have out flanked them. The world recognized it long before we did, or have, but why should we recognize it when the only respect we show is to someone exactly like ourselves. We have become a country that won’t tolerate opinions other that our own. The press has gotten weak and infiltrated by agendas to the point you can’t believe them much like you can’t believe our politicians. This great country will right itself because of the genius of its forefathers, and it will make one great step forward when it elects the most qualified man president despite the fact we don’t belong to the same lodge with him or go to the same church. That is the way we buy our life insurance but we are now electing a president. After eight years let do it right for a change.
By USinUK
October 26, 2008 11:32 AM | Link to this
TOJ -
Oh yeah, that problem I had with my central air? Apparently the air and heat comes from the same system. Imagine that. Looks like I won’t be getting that new HD camera for a while. They will be here on Monday to replace my whole system. OUCH!!
welcome back - although, what a crappy thing to come home to. ouch! is right.
and, as for the end of an era/error, one of my favorite people on the planet has a saying “better to have a horrible ending than horrors without end” ;-)
I’m sure your client will be happy with the finished results … and now, you can go back to doing things on Atlanta time instead of … slow … as … molassas … time
as for Tamika … well … let’s just say, I think the meds ran out … god knows, I don’t think that person’s train of thought stops at all stations.
anyhoo … welcome home! btw, how did your meeting go last week? (you were meeting with some hottie and had the guilts about it - unnecessary guilts, if I may add)
By The Other Jack
October 26, 2008 12:04 PM | Link to this
USinUK
It’s cold in here.
I can’t afford to fix Tamika’s butt. I have to fix my central air.
The hotty?
She was something. She cooked me dinner Friday evening. I was impressed. She is financially waaaaaay out of my league. He husband died a few years ago and left her several coal mines. She didn’t know anything about running coal mines so she sold them. Her house is scary nice and his old 63 vette split-window coupe is collecting dust in the garage. Her involvement in the county is strictly volunteer. I get the feeling that her checkbook is her biggest advocate.
I think I was the guy that was leaving that small town so the gossip could be controlled. I’m pretty sure that is why we didn’t leave her house on Friday night. I feel soooo used. Pardon me while I weep.
I think it could be a nice little friendship. And there are those legs.
By Sukie
October 26, 2008 1:21 PM | Link to this
Hello? Who could possibly even think that McCain is better for our country at this time!!!! And Palin is laughable!!!
Obama is going to help 95% of the Americans. He will help everyone making less than $250,000. I don’t make $250,000, so Obama is the best bet for me.
Voting for Obama and Biden …and Jim Martin next Tuesday.
By The Other Jack
October 26, 2008 2:42 PM | Link to this
Sukie
Would you mind giving Cisco Systems a call and telling them that. They are looking at relocating hundreds of thousands of jobs to Ireland where corporate taxes are 11%. Here they are 25% and Obama has been bragging about raising them to 30%. So hundreds of thousands of Americans are about to lose their jobs just because one single company is fed up with our uneducated work force and our extremely unfriendly business climate. I wonder how many other major US corporations will leave.
Looks like no one will be making over $250,000 a year. it’s hard to make that much working in fast food because you just got fired from your compnay that just moved to Ireland.
Can you give them a call?
By chuck
October 26, 2008 2:51 PM | Link to this
Sukie, JFK would be so proud:
Obama is going to help 95% of the Americans. He will help everyone making less than $250,000. I don’t make $250,000, so Obama is the best bet for me.
By lea
October 26, 2008 3:01 PM | Link to this
McCain’s performance on the Meet the Press today was sad and pitiful. He is a confused, angry man who can’t even remember who his supporters are. He should not lead this country. That would just be too scary! Tom Brokaw was very KIND to him today— too kind, in my opinion. He just let him ramble on about how awful Obama was… no discussion of what HIS policies would be. He got terribly defensive over and over again. No logic, no facts— just sputtering.
And by the way, the RNC should have used that $150,000 to buy Sarah Palin a brain instead of squandering it on clothes.
Oh yeah, I’m from Georgia.. voting for Obama and Jim Martin. I want mean-spirited Saxby Chambliss voted out of Washington. He called Max Cleland a coward and unpatriotic. Max Cleland— an honorable veteran who lost 3 limbs in Vietnam, fighting for his country!!.
Wake up, Georgia… This is not the kind of human being that we should allow to represent us..
By Reuben
October 26, 2008 3:20 PM | Link to this
Palin is the creation of MacFRANKESTEIN….and now the THE CREATURE is out of control…Scary!
By Vince
October 26, 2008 4:29 PM | Link to this
What is O’Bama’s end game ????????????????? He should leave the country he loves to hate, so much, and take up residence in Argentina like the other Nazi’s before him.
By BDAtlanta
October 26, 2008 4:31 PM | Link to this
Strategy and McCain campaign shouldn’t even be uttered in the same sentence. It’s play-it-by-ear campaigning.
By Gale
October 27, 2008 9:03 AM | Link to this
Whew! This topic sure brought out a load of hate.
By Lyrazel
October 27, 2008 9:14 AM | Link to this
What must John McCain’s endgame strategy be? Assassinate Ralph Nader before Nader can steal important votes needed to beat Obama.
McCain’s shift to endorse the right wing junta of the evangelical party was eerie. Wasn’t he a moderate fiscal conservative who believed in small government & government kept out of peoples lives? I guess women’s uterus are still topic for discussion of ownership for him. Palin was a good shock to a staid campaign but now the novelty has worn off like glitter on a cheap pair of shoes.
Every single candidate running in this election has made it clear they do not understand fiscal economics— but at least GWB and his junta is leaving. Strange bit of deja vu, GHB left in an economic crisis with a huge deficit. Remember GHB in his fishing boat—waving to stupid reporters who were asking questions with 6 boat engines running—like father, like son. Wave to the cameras—wave and smile—smile and wave at the cameras—I have money you got nada—smile and wave to the cameras—ain’t my fault you ain’t got nada—-
I shall elect no incumbent long past their prime!!
By The Other Jack
October 27, 2008 9:26 AM | Link to this
lea
So you think the teeth gtitting, angry Tom brokow was kind to him?
We are in deep sh^t if you think that was kind. It is unbelievable how deep the liberal indoctrination has gone.
By The Other Jack
October 27, 2008 9:31 AM | Link to this
Lyrazel
Funny thing about that uterus. It contains a human life.
The very fact that people like you tend to discuss a woman’s body part while completely discounting that woman’s unborn child is horrifying. When was the last time in human history that human life was considered with such disdain and low regard?
By The Other Jack
October 27, 2008 9:48 AM | Link to this
Lyrazel
You have also forgotten that the dot-coms crashed just before Clinton left. My, my, how you guys like to rewrite history. i guess that is the only way you can keep voting for the same prettyboy candidates that never vary in their hollow promises of taxing the rich and helping the poor. Clinton promised it, but strangely enough, everyone got the largest tax increase in history.
Now please think a second or two and then explain to me how Obama is going to balance a budget where we are giving away three times the cost of the entire Iraq war in less than a month and he is going to give 95% of Americans a tax break, especially considering that only 60% of Americans pay taxes. You know the V8 commercials, where one person hits the other in the forehead and says: you could have had a V8? I want to tap all of your foreheads and say, you could have ignored the propaganda and used your brain.
You are going to get what you want. Let’s see how many major corporations leave the country in the next four years because of the taxes. Ireland’s standard rate is 12.5%, but they are offering any major corporation that leaves the United States a special rate of 11%. Ireland has a better educational system, a third the tax rates we have and corporations are not made out to be the enemy over there.
Congratulations. The damage the party that is supported by country destroyers like George Soros has done for the past two years will continue, unabated.
You must be very proud.
By Lyrazel
October 27, 2008 10:06 AM | Link to this
O no Jack, I have considerable blame for Clinton economics which got us into the gee no jobs, thanks NAFTA crisis! Look at his Alan Greenspan saying: Gee golly I thought they would be honest and govern themselves—How many factories were closed during the Clinton administration? How is it they could close factories in the USA and still get tax breaks? And wasnt it the democrat administration that came up with the plan America would be the stockholders of the world business so the rest of the world could provide us with goods? Yeah well, I did not vote for him either time nor his gnarly wife too.
Nope I dont think Obama can do 1/8th of the crap he promised. I seldom listen to campaign promises—I am far too old to believe in magical abilities of career politicians.
Nope its not what I want—I would see BOTH parties defeated in a humiliating race not called by TV polls and pundits.
Sorry Jack—I just am not the PARTY liberal you think I am—no party ties—no ties—no bondage party—sorry….
UNSEAT INCUMBENTS!!! UNSEAT LOBBYISTS!!!
By Lyrazel
October 27, 2008 10:14 AM | Link to this
Jack you forget that sometimes abortions occur naturally thus cannot be regulated by insipid politicians and their courts. Those statistics people quote have all sorts of medical complications listed as abortions. Should a woman be jailed if she miscarries? Well according to statistical terms that is an abortion so if it is made illegal—so is premature birth, false pregnancy and several other routine health issues pregnant women must face… alone. Sorry Jack.
By Gandalf, the Grey
October 27, 2008 10:18 AM | Link to this
He should tell all of those stupid OBAMANATION supporters that indeed Barry is a man of little to no moral value, will say anything to anyone to get elected, doesn’t cross the aisle and is a flaming homosexual/ muslim /pro death/ not born in the us/ racist /elitist hater. If any of it’s untrue, who cares! Win win win!
By chuck
October 27, 2008 10:57 AM | Link to this
McCain’s endgame? I haven’t a clue. He has to be the WORST campaigner in the history of the GOP…and yet, tracking polls find him in a statistical dead heat with Obama at 51% to 46% with a +/- 3% according to the latest Rasmussen. As bad a candidate as he is, he would still be a million times better president than Barack HUSSEIN HAMAS Obama.
As far as “stategery” goes, McCain should focus on 3 things in my opinion.
1) We have won the war in Iraq and can have most of our troops home by 2010. The troops that are still there should be counter-terrorist and MP type folks and they should be organized in quick strike groups and placed strategically around the country in the least accessible areas of the country, but as close as they can be to volatile areas and trouble spots.
2) The “Bush Tax Cuts” generated billions in additional revenue to the government and congress and the President squandered it. He should lay out SPECIFIC plans to cut TAXES and programs and get the budget under control. He should propose 3 constitutional amendments: 1) Balanced Budget Amendment, 2) Line Item Veto Amendment, 3)An Amendment that forces Congress to send “CLEAN BILLS” to the President for consideration. This amendment would not allow the placing of amendments onto bills, unless they are specifically related to the bill itself. It would also prevent congress from placing amendments onto spending bills that are non-appropriation related. For instance, a law widening abortion rights on a defense spending bill.
3) He needs to do the responsible thing and ask Palin to step aside as VP candidate and replace her with John Kasich from Ohio. Palin can save face by stepping down for “family reasons”. I still contend that she is MORE QUALIFIED than Barack HUSSEIN HAMAS Obama, but she has become a distraction now and it is time to cut losses. The only reason that has not happened with Biden on the democrat side is that Obama has maintained a slight lead and doesn’t want to rock the boat.
If I was running McCain’s campaign this is what I would advise him to do.
By Family Values
October 27, 2008 11:05 AM | Link to this
McCain should concentrate solely on family values for the next week. He could start by going on national TV to discuss the abortion problem that’s ruining all our lives. He should roll his eyes, sneer, and do finger quotes around the term “health of the woman” when discussing factors to consider when granting a bunch of lawyers in Washington the power to make your medical decisions for you.
REMEMBER: Any woman who dies, or whose body is damaged or disfigured during the course of fulfilling her reproductive duties CAN BE REPLACED by one who is YOUNGER, BLONDER, and RICHER! John McCain admitted to not understanding the economy, but he understand family values, and should stick with what he knows!
Please donate generously to the Citizens for McCain and a world where c—ts paint their faces like trollops and do what they’re told!
By Gale
October 27, 2008 11:14 AM | Link to this
Chuck, I agree with what you said to a point. On #2, I would not make these constitutional ammendmants, for two reasons. One, they should be law, but it takes far too long for an ammendment to be ratified. Two, the majority leaders in each house should have the b_lls to reject any bill that fails to meet these criteria instead of being a part of the party bickering that tries to jockey things so their party looks good and the other party looks bad.
By The Other Jack
October 27, 2008 11:16 AM | Link to this
Lyrazel
i’ve heard you say that you support neither party, right before you support the Democrats. I’ve never seen you support a single Republican stance. I know that you want to think of yourself as fair, but what you are posting on here is strictly liberal.
We have been losing industries since the Democratically controlled Congress under the Clinton administration passed NAFTA. Yes, even Rush Limbaugh supported it so I can’t blame it entirely on the dims, but they were in charge when it was passed. That says a lot.
We have lost several major industries because of a 25% tax rate. My little hometown lost the US staple Electrolux several years ago. Now they are a European country this is selling their goods at Lowes and Home Depot. And that was with a 25% tax rate. Obama openly brags that he will increase that rate to 30%. That’s where it was during the first two Clinton years when we started losing corporations. I say lower their rate to 10% and ask all the churches to pray that they stay here, giving American good jobs with good pay..
I have a client that is based out of France. They do a large amount of business here so they have been waiting to see who wins the election before they build a new manufacturing facility and open a United States business center out in Washington State. The business center would contain it’s own video department so I would have lost them as a client.
Friday, I was asked to submit a bid on a new project so looks like they are not coming. This is real. This is business leaders looking at this extremely liberal, anti-capitalistic government and making decisions based on tax rates and an overall hate of successful people that is being pushed by this upcoming administration.
you have a large part of the Obama base that is giddy because they believe that Obama is going tio take money away from evil rich people and give that money to them. Tamika is a perfect example. She is going to fix her boobs and butt with the money Obama is going to GIVE her. Think of that logic. This is what you are supporting.
As far as incumbents, how do you feel about a Congress with a 10% approval rating that will gain a huge majority after this lie ridden, propaganda based media placing election?
Abortions? All I can ask is that you remember that there are two sides to this argument. I understand that we need to have legal abortions. They need to be highly controlled because of the human life and death that is involved. But when I see someone, anyone referring to the debate as only about a uterus, it smells of genocide. it smells of incredible lack of regard for a human life.
Liberals want to turn the abortion debate into a matter of semantics. But those semantics are just as terrifying as the semantics used in other cases of human genocide. When we stop addressing the human life before we address any other issues, we are headed down the roads that we have gone before and it never turned out good.
It is an ABORTION of a human life. The softer and gentler way the liberals are teaching us to talk aboout ABORTIONS just shows how horrible the situation has gotten.
By Mara
October 27, 2008 11:22 AM | Link to this
TOJ, were you the author of Dobsen’s-FoF fear mongering, over the top “Letter from 2012 in Obama’s America” (or was it GtG)?
Crooks and Liars has a great rebutal to it’s hysterical craziness…
Hey GOB! Hey Lyrazel!
~ waving to everyone ~
By The Other Jack
October 27, 2008 11:31 AM | Link to this
Family Values
You are the problem. Civil debate on the abortion industry is impossible with people like you. You are convinced that all Republicans hate women. But you might want to consider (like you have the mental capacity to consider anything) All women started as a fetus, just like men. How many women have abortions slaughtered? That would be 1/10 of all the women that would have been born since Roe V Wade. One out of ten babies are now aborted. We have killed 5 times more babies than the Jews killed by the NAZIs. But you want to blabber on about the nonsense that you posted.
By chuck
October 27, 2008 11:45 AM | Link to this
Hi Gale, I agree that they should be laws, but Supreme Court decisions have declared at least 2 attempt to do just that, unconstitutional. The Republican Congress passed a line-item veto law and it was struck down by the Supremes. (That Diana Ross can be a terror when she gets upset). There was also a balanced budget law put into place as a bi-partisan bill “Gramm-Rudman”. It to was struck down as I recall, (but it may be that it has just been ignored). Hey, here’s another Constitutional Amendment that probably 75% of the country would agree to…Term limits for Congress. A law attempting to do that was struck down also.
By The Other Jack
October 27, 2008 11:45 AM | Link to this
mara
No. That would be Dobson.
But if I am making you fearful, you are just waking up. The democrats have been in charge for two years, but you are voting for the politician that claims to want change. What a joke. What changes is he going to offer, Mara? More taxes that will run corporations to Europe?
All Dobson wants you to do is to stop listening to the propaganda and stop believing the reems of e-mails you get everyday from liberal sites and dare to actually think for yourself. See what is being promised and see what could really be delivered. See the damage that has already been done in the last two years. What happened to the wire tap discussions? What happened to the waterboarding complaints? None of that seems very important now, does it?
America will get the government it deserves. We have had the same government that we are going to get for two years now. How do you like them so far?
By chuck
October 27, 2008 11:47 AM | Link to this
So “Family Values” are you Kimberly or Whiley? It’s getting harder and harder to tell the 2 of you apart.
By Gale
October 27, 2008 12:06 PM | Link to this
TOJ, attitudes like yours are the other side of the abortion debate problem. It is NOT a black and white issue.
Chuck, I see your point.
By Family Values
October 27, 2008 12:13 PM | Link to this
TOJ, how is it “nonsense” that the Republican Presidential Candidate HIMSELF sneered, rolled his eyes, and did finger quotes around the words “health of a woman?” I didn’t make that up. I was watching the debate, weren’t you? Did you interpret that to mean he actually cares about the health of a woman? Did I miss the “I really care” body language cues?
John McCain does not deny calling his second wife Cindy a c—t in public. It had been a long day, he explained. This is also not something I made up to annoy you. Actually, I think YOU are “the problem” because you seem to think only the facts YOU select have a place in the public discourse. Maybe you called YOUR wives the C-word out of “love and respect” for them? That might explain a few things….
BTW, why would I assume, as YOU speculate, that “all Republicans hate women?” Nothing says “love” like a world-class trousseau!! Besides, I know a good many who are quite fond of lil’ ol’ ME! Do you just make s—t up as you go along?
By EnoughSaid
October 27, 2008 12:25 PM | Link to this
to understand some people’s misrepresentation of actual events, and to answer Do you just make s—t up as you go along? how about:
The democrats have been in charge for two years (harped on again and again, however patently FALSE it is).
By jhpoke
October 27, 2008 12:34 PM | Link to this
Obama/Biden vs McCain/Palin, what if things were switched around?…..think about it. Would the country’s collective point of view be different? Could racism be the culprit? Ponder the following:
What if the Obamas had paraded five children across the stage, including a three month old infant and an unwed, pregnant teenage daughter?
What if John McCain was a former president of the Harvard Law Review?
What if Barack Obama finished fifth from the bottom of his graduating class?
What if McCain had only married once, and Obama was a divorcee?
What if Obama was the candidate who left his first wife after a severe disfiguring car accident, when she no longer measured up to his standards?
What if Obama had met his second wife in a bar and had a long affair while he was still married?
What if Michelle Obama was the wife who not only became addicted to painkillers but also acquired them illegally through her charitable organization?
What if Cindy McCain graduated from Harvard?
What if Obama had been a member of the Keating Five? (The Keating Five were five United States Senators accused of corruption in 1989, igniting a major political scandal as part of the larger Savings and Loan crisis of the late 1980s and early 1990s.)
What if McCain was a charismatic, eloquent speaker?
What if Obama couldn’t read from a teleprompter?
What if Obama was the one who had military experience that included discipline problems and a record of crashing five planes?
What if Obama was the one who was known to display publicly, on many occasions, a serious anger management problem?
What if Michelle Obama’s family had made their money from beer distribution?
What if the Obamas had adopted a white child?
You could easily add to this list. If these questions reflected reality, do you really believe the election numbers would be as close as they are? This is what racism does. It covers up, rationalizes and minimizes positive qualities in one candidate and emphasizes negative qualities in another when there is a color difference.
Educational Background:
Barack Obama:
Columbia University - B.A. Political Science with a Specialization in International Relations.
Harvard - Juris Doctor (J.D.) Magna Cum Laude
Joseph Biden:
University of Delaware - B.A. in History and B.A. in Political Science.
Syracuse University College of Law - Juris Doctor (J.D.)
vs.
John McCain:
United States Naval Academy - Class rank: 894 of 899
Sarah Palin:
Hawaii Pacific University - 1 semester
North Idaho College - 2 semesters - general study
University of Idaho - 2 semesters - journalism
Matanuska-Susitna Colle ge - 1 semester
University of Idaho - 3 semesters - B.A. in Journalism
Education isn’t everything, but this is about the two highest offices in the land as well as our standing in the world. You make the call.
Racism, you say? Heaven’s no! How could you even think such a thing?
By Mara
October 27, 2008 12:52 PM | Link to this
All Dobson wants you to do is to stop listening to the propaganda and stop believing the reems of e-mails you get everyday from liberal sites and dare to actually think for yourself.
LOL!! Yeah, ToJ, sure. And why am I not surprised that you swallow the GOP-Christianist propaganda just as eagerly and uncritically as any liberal sipping at the ‘Fount of Kos’?
For the rest of you, here’s a list of some of the more wacky assertions as compiled from Scholars & Rogues (yes, I know…I sent you on a wild goose chase over to “Crooks & Liars”. Sorry, my bad…)
————————————• Boy Scouts disband after refusing to allow homosexual scoutmasters to sleep in the same tent as young boys
• First-graders get “compulsory training in varieties of gender identity,” and parents can no longer opt out of school-based sex ed for their kids
• Churches are declared “public accommodations” and forced to offer marriage ceremonies for homosexual couples
• Military must offer “sensitivity training” for troops forced to accept enlisted homosexuals
• The Supreme Court declares that “proselytizing speech” does not have the same protection as other speech, and Christian ministries are banned from college campuses
• Nurses who do not wish to participate in abortions will lose their jobs, and doctors who deliver babies at hospitals must perform abortions or lose their licenses
• The FCC nullifies all restrictions on obscene speech or visual portrayals on TV, and it’s now a 24-hour non-stop diet of explicit porn
• States are allowed to ban guns, and illegal gun-owners face stiff fines or prison terms
• Home-schoolers are forced to use state-approved curricula, and rather than do so, many emigrate to New Zealand or Australia where they may teach without restrictions
• The U.S. troop withdrawal from Iraq prompts a take-over by Al Qaeda, which in turn has carried out terrorist attacks on four U.S. cities
• Russia reclaims most of the old Soviet bloc, including the Baltic states, Poland, Hungary, Czech Republic and Bulgaria while UN & NATO fail to take action
• Latin America topples toward communism as the U.S.’s pro-Chavez policies give Venezuela more weight
• A single-payer national health care system has banned hospital admissions for anyone over 80
[snip]
Wow, that’s one efficient administration. Even when G.W. Bush had both houses of Congress, a majority of Supreme Court appointees, and two-thirds of federal judgeships in his court, the American political and cultural landscape held relatively steady.
————————————HEH! Obama is soooo powerful that once he’s elected…NObody can stop him! (Boogity-boogity-boogity!) Not the Congress, not the Courts, not the people themselves!! NOBODY! You will be enslaved by the Great and Powerful Obama. MMmmmmwwwAAAAAhahahahahaha!
WoooOOOOoooooo…be afraid…woooOOOOOoooo…REALLY afraid….
(/snark)
By chuck
October 27, 2008 1:00 PM | Link to this
jhpoke, I agree with you that there would be different responses had some of those items been reversed between the 2 parties. For instance if it had been Biden who brought those 5 kids across the stage with one of them being a pregnant teen, the democrats wouldn’t have had a problem with it at all.
Your analogy breaks down a little along party line doesn’t it?
As for education “not being everything”, I also agree with you. However, if I had to choose between someone WITH HUGE EDUCATIONIONAL CREDENTIALS AND NO EXECUTIVE/COMMAND EXPERIENCE, or someone with NORMAL EDUCATIONAL EXPERIENCES AND EXECUTIVE/COMMAND EXPERIENCE, I’ll take the latter EVERY TIME for POTUS.
What in a JD degree, prepares you to be President of the United States? I much prefer Bush’s MBA from Harvard to Obama’s JD as far as education goes.
By Lyrazel
October 27, 2008 1:01 PM | Link to this
TOJack, I just don’t see why the government should be involved in medical decisions of patients. Remember your abortion statistics include: miscarriage, premies, false and early and any child not carried to full term (so your 1/10 stat would be much lower if you quote only surgical which ain’t the point if your point is to shock and awe people as to how many…blah blah blah). Certainly the debate grows when one considers its not low income persons who get the majority of clinical abortions so that blows welfare mama conspiracy of immorality. Do we debate why men ages 19-42 do not use condoms with white college students—oddly we never seem to debate why men are not immoral for impregnating women who get abortions. Shouldn’t they at least be required to have vasectomies if a girlfriend has an abortion? Takes 2 or are these immaculate conception abortions?
You say i support democrats and nary a praise to republicans—well for what? A war on 2 fronts? Even Napoleon learned that was folly. Send troops to war but have crappy hospitals with negligible service for those valiant heros coming home wounded? ALL ELECTED politicians head to Walter Reed hospital for their check-ups but NO ONE saw the deplorable conditions of the hospital for those GIs returning. HAS ANYTHING BEEN DONE? Nope. Why has no one sent McCain there to prove he and his party is a bastion of change? There has not been much change for wounded veterans returning, thats why. Should I praise the party for ignoring countless billions lost to contractors in Iraq & Afghanistan? Lets talk—Halburton. Why did one company get so many American military government contracts without bids afforded others? Wink wink politics. Should I praise Republicans for an educational program that has so many holes in it that each state can decide what is on the test and what is learnin’ guud nuff for them southern states? Mac & Cheese is still a school vegetable in GA… Should I praise Republicans for running up a deficit so large the military budget was removed from the National Budget? Lets talk 700 billion bailout—some day soon. Same as it ever was—
I gotta go. Sorry.
waves at ya Gale
By HeeHaw
October 27, 2008 1:10 PM | Link to this
I much prefer Bush’s MBA from Harvard
so that’s what causes our current economic woes? Lots of good an MBA did the country.
By chuck
October 27, 2008 1:12 PM | Link to this
Mara, you laugh, but some of the things in the “Letter From 2012” are not as far-fetched as you think. A number of those PREDICTIONS are based on similar 9th circuit court decisions that COULD become the law of the land if Obama replaced just 1 or 2 court members. I’m not going to justify the WHOLE LIST, but the Boy Scout, Nurse and Russia items, are DEFINITE possibilities under Obama. Especially the Russia item. They have already tested the waters because they PERCEIVE that America is burned out on warbecause of Iraq and Afghanistan. I could easily see them trying to reassert their influence and power in the old Bloc…Especially having traveled to Romania 4 times now.
By Gale
October 27, 2008 1:21 PM | Link to this
Lyrazel, I don’t know about the vasectomy idea. But if abortion did become illegal again, surely the father should share in the punishment. That might put a light on the “crime”.
By Mara
October 27, 2008 1:51 PM | Link to this
chuck - some of the things in the “Letter From 2012” are not as far-fetched as you think
Okay, chuck, I won’t argue because you’re right. Some of them could become law…just like you could become a tenured Professor of Christian Philosophy at Regent University. I could become a world famous pundit, a reknowned poet, or a well-regarded cat breeder. It’s not likely…but it is possible.
ToJ - What happened to the wire tap discussions? What happened to the waterboarding complaints? None of that seems very important now, does it?
er, actually on this side of the aisle it’s still pretty incendiary. Once Pelosi and Reid made it clear that they would not push investigations or insist on reprecussions for wrongdoing during the the campaign, well…what’s the point in beating a dead horse? We’ll see what happens after the election is over. Btw, there’s a fun game going around the center-left blogosphere that you might enjoy.
From Bob Murphy: “I would like the pro-Obama people to come up with specific things that would make them admit they are mistaken right now, in their advocacy of Obama. For example, if Obama orders the use of nuclear weapons on Iran, surely that would count, right?”
“To be clear, I’m not talking about things like, “Aww man, he could raise tax rates and cause slower GDP growth!” I’m saying, what if he starts arresting journalists?”
“So no matter how ludicrous you have to make the events, surely you will admit right now that there are some things President Obama could do, that would make you regret your current support. I would just like to have a record of those things, before he actually takes over.”
Google “i love you more than anything obama” and click on the first web listing to play.
By Bruno
October 27, 2008 2:01 PM | Link to this
McCain’s shift to endorse the right wing junta of the evangelical party was eerie. Wasn’t he a moderate fiscal conservative who believed in small government & government kept out of peoples lives? I guess women’s uterus are still topic for discussion of ownership for him. Palin was a good shock to a staid campaign but now the novelty has worn off like glitter on a cheap pair of shoes.
No time to blog today, but I agree with your assessment of some of McCain’s missteps, Lyrazel. I hate that the Republican Party has gotten so far away from its roots of fiscal conservatism and freedom from governmental intrusion into our private lives. Is that enough to get me to vote for the unabashed socialist Obama?? Heck, no. Obama certainly represents change, but change to what?? I still can’t fathom why everyone is in such a rush to have the government take over our health care system. I would like any of you who think it’s a good idea to try to deal with Meidcare for a few weeks. I believe you would be singing a different tune then.
By Bruno
October 27, 2008 2:12 PM | Link to this
first of all, chuck was the one who brought up left/right - not me. secondly, Fannie and Freddie are NOT the cause of the current problems. they did not ORIGINATE the loans - the banks did - THE BANKS are the root of the problem. following that, the RATING AGENCIES paid no attention to what was being bundled, essentially rating crap mortgages as AAA. Fannie and Freddie just got caught in the crap-storm without enough capitalization to cover said crap.
Two words for you, USinUK—Caveat Emptor.
Sorry for being a stick in the mud regarding the credit/mortgage crisis, but I still can’t get past the fact that many, many consumers signed for loans they knew (or should have known) that they couldn’t afford. If these same consumers were now paying back the monies they borrowed on time, there would be no crisis at any level. Am I excusing the banks, the crooked appraisers, etc. for their part?? Heck no, but at the bottom rung of the crisis I see consumers who should have known better. Just my opinion, of course.
I did think of you (and Mara) this weekend when I tuned in C-Span for a while and watched several Congressmen and Congresswomen interviewing folks who worked for the various rating agencies who kept giving AAA ratings to the bundled mortgage accounts. Another bunch of crooks who were complicit in the largest fraud ever hoisted upon the American taxpayers. Of course, at this point, it probably doesn’t do much good to point fingers. We’re all going to take a big hit over this mess before it’s over with.
By T-Mika, THE DUMB
October 27, 2008 2:14 PM | Link to this
OBAMANATION OBAMANATION WE LOVE YOU WE GIVE OUR GUNS, OUR TIGHTLY CLUTCHED GUNS AND CHURCHES TO YOU, OBMAANATION WE GIVE OUR RIGHTS TO DISAGREE TO YOU OBAMANATION!
By Gandalf, the Grey
October 27, 2008 2:16 PM | Link to this
Waterboard is good stuff! It makes people talk! MORE NOT LESS waterboarding. Ya bunch of pansies!
By Mara
October 27, 2008 2:32 PM | Link to this
Bruno, I hope you were thinking of me bacause you were watching my fave TV station and NOT because they were interviewing a bunch of oblivious crooks. :^)
By The Other Jack
October 27, 2008 2:36 PM | Link to this
gale
So where do you get out of me saying that i understand that there needs to be abortions, but they need to be highly controlled that i thought it was a black and white issue?
By Bruno
October 27, 2008 2:42 PM | Link to this
Bruno, I hope you were thinking of me bacause you were watching my fave TV station and NOT because they were interviewing a bunch of oblivious crooks. :^)
Probably a little bit of both reasons…….just kidding. In the end, I’m not sure if the “hearings” accomplished anything, however. It appeared that the Congressmen and Congresswomen were more interested in posturing and hearing themselves talk than in finding a legitimate way out of this mess.
By The Other Jack
October 27, 2008 2:48 PM | Link to this
family Values
Judging a candidate by a single pgrse he said and a gesture during a debate is what I would expect. People that vote with thier hearts instead of their heads are the people voting for Obama. The problem is that your heart can be swayed by very little reason.
As far as the democrats not being in charge for the last two years: How so? The have controlled both houses of Congress. Did you take civics when you were in school? You do understand who makes the laws and sets the policies, don’t you?
By The Other Jack
October 27, 2008 2:59 PM | Link to this
Mara
I would just like to cut and paste Obama’s promises and check them off as he breaks them. But why? You guys are going to be blaming the Republicans for the next 20 years.
Congress was given to the dims two years ago and how many people on here still deny that they have been in charge? Ignorance is the democrat’s greatest tool.
I had thought that four years of our country choking on overt liberalism would teach the country a lesson, but the media will never allow that. All Republicans could be banned from inside the Washington beltway for twenty years and they would still be blamed for every bone headed decision that the democrats make.
You are getting what you wanted. Let’s see what happens. I am certain that nothing will happen that Obama promised except the tax hikes for our major employers. And unfortunately, the events after that will be the same events whenever taxes have been raised on people with the means to leave the country.
By The Other Jack
October 27, 2008 3:09 PM | Link to this
Lyrazel
We don’t discuss abortion issues because of the same hysteria you see on here. All the issues you noted should be discussed along with the fact that the only sex education our kids are given is a very pro-abortion mantra. Kids are never told about the trama of killing your child. But then again, it is not discussed because there are too many people like “Fam,ily Values that can’t keep from going ape.
At least you admitted that you are very liberal. That’s a start. Every issue that you brought up has an argument and an answer. But why should i take the time? Would you ever agree with any logical argument that supports a Republican?
By Family Values
October 27, 2008 3:12 PM | Link to this
Judging a candidate by a single pgrse he said and a gesture during a debate is what I would expect.
That’s what you “would expect?” You mean if you were an idiot? Who judges an entire candidacy by one comment or gesture? Not me. (I didn’t think it would be appropriate to post all my many observations of the last year, and opinions on each one, in a single post, however. Would anyone care to disagree?) I chose to comment on that particular observation because I think McCain’s values relating to women are somewhat less that what I hope for in a President. If my having an opinion on that is a problem for YOU, then perhaps it’s YOUR heart and sense of reason you should examine.
By The Other Jack
October 27, 2008 3:21 PM | Link to this
Lyrazel
TOJack, I just don’t see why the government should be involved in medical decisions of patients.
This is scary that I need to do this:
It is not JUST about a medical decision. There is a human life involved.
It is not JUST about a uterus. There is a human life involved.
It is not JUST about a woman’s choice. There is a human life involved.
Stop trying to minimize the value of the life of the child.
This is the problem. Intelligent educated people like yourself are so used to this mantra of totally ignoring a very real human life, human baby, human son, human daughter, human nephew, human niece, possible leaders of great countries, possible curers of cancer, possible future president, doctors, lawyers, researchers, film makers, artists, architects, POSSIBLE PEOPLE, that to anyone reading the things you write that do not understand the mantra indoctrination would think that you are a monster with no regard for human life.
By Gale
October 27, 2008 3:31 PM | Link to this
TOJ, So where do you get out of me saying that i understand that there needs to be abortions, but they need to be highly controlled that i thought it was a black and white issue?
11:16 and 11:31 AM “smells of genocide. it smells of incredible lack of regard for a human life.”
It is the way you focus on the fetus; like there is only one element in the issue.
By Backwords
October 27, 2008 3:38 PM | Link to this
This is scary that I need to do this:
It is STILL about a woman’s personal medical decision. There is a human life beyond partially-formed fetus involved.
It is STILL about a uterus — a body part contained within, and affecting the life of the owner. There is a human life involved, unless you don’t think a woman is a human.
It is STILL about a woman’s choice vs. what a bunch of strangers who don’t know her think she should be doing with her life. There are the rights of the human involved, and the unresolved issues of when one human life has to be sacrificed for another, and whose decision that should be.
Stop trying to minimize the value of the life of the woman, without whose consent, sacrifice, and care, the human fetus could not become a separate, self-sustained, living entity.
By Gale
October 27, 2008 3:40 PM | Link to this
TOJ, stop insisting that a human life is created at conception and we may go forward in an abortion debate. For many days and weeks, a joined egg and sperm cell is not much more than a growing cell mass. It is not human except in potential. I think you would find most people generally in favor of first trimester abortions and generally opposed to third trimester abortions. Third trimester abortions are usually painful decisions on the part of the woman and do not need the government to make the pain worse. First trimester abortions should be the choice of the woman and her doctor. The “morning after” pill should be available to anyone who requests it. This should not be a public matter requiring government intervention.
By Gandalf, the Grey
October 27, 2008 3:46 PM | Link to this
In the new nation of Obamastan we will all be able to get free abortions, but we will have to wait 9 months to schedule the appointment.
In the new nation of Obamastan, we will have the right to bear arms, as long as your parents fought in the revolutionary war. Otherwise it won’t apply to you, Barry will take your arms, he will pry mine from my cold dead fingers, with lots of empty brass surrounding my cooling flesh.
In the new nation of Obamastan, you can speak Spanish, but no mexicans will be hear as Barry will have run off all the business with his oppressive taxes.
By Gandalf, the Grey
October 27, 2008 3:46 PM | Link to this
In the new nation of Obamastan we will all be able to get free abortions, but we will have to wait 9 months to schedule the appointment.
In the new nation of Obamastan, we will have the right to bear arms, as long as your parents fought in the revolutionary war. Otherwise it won’t apply to you, Barry will take your arms, he will pry mine from my cold dead fingers, with lots of empty brass surrounding my cooling flesh.
In the new nation of Obamastan, you can speak Spanish, but no mexicans will be hear as Barry will have run off all the business with his oppressive taxes.
By The Other Jack
October 27, 2008 3:46 PM | Link to this
Family Values
I certainly see your point. I should have known that you had completely logical and solid reasons to oppose McCain, even though the only two reasons you listed were the reasons i commented about. I am usually very good at reading the minds of posters who I have never met and who apparently do not have the courage to even associte what they write with any past names.
I will brush up on my mind reading skills and try to do better next time.
By Huh
October 27, 2008 3:51 PM | Link to this
Abortion already? It’s only Monday.
see what happens when you tell little girls they are so cute again and again.
They grow up to be like Sarah Palin. When will we see the talent show?
By Sunshine
October 27, 2008 3:56 PM | Link to this
Wow, things are lively around here today! Gale EXCELLENT 3:40, my thoughts exactly. And kudos to Backwords also! I have never fully understood why men believe that the whole abortion debate should be decided by them, unless they are the doctor or the father, you have nothing to say about what a woman does with her body. That’s just my two cents!
Seems that the bad economy has hit very close to home today. Our company, in an effort to keep the doors open, is starting all employees on either 3 or 4 day work weeks. I will be tough, but I do think it is a noble effort to try and keep people working and with some income either while they try to find new employment or things pick up. And my boss made arrangements for me to keep my health benefits till the little guy gets here, even if I am only working a few hours a week while trying to work somewhere else. Very nice gesture, I am just not sure how finding another job while 6 months pregnant will be?!?
By Gandalf, the Grey
October 27, 2008 3:58 PM | Link to this
TOJ, reading may be taken away from you in the new nation of Obamastan. Be careful and remember what tempature paper burns at-451 degrees. Don’t Axe too many quesions!
By Family Values
October 27, 2008 4:11 PM | Link to this
The Other Jack, I am SO sorry, Dude! Please accept my apology for misunderstanding. See, I thought this was a forum for women’s perspectives on the issues, and didn’t realize it was a place for MEN to come and (with great sacrifice to their own time and interests, no doubt) explain to the women of America just exactly what our problem is, and why our own feelings about our own issues are completely IRRELEVANT. Thank you so much for your generosity and thoughtfulness!
By Gale
October 27, 2008 4:14 PM | Link to this
Thanks, Sunshine. We agree completely on who should have a right to advise a pregnant woman. Tough news on the job. I have heard of companies doing that in hope of keeping good people around when things get better. Otherwise, they are gone and you don’t get them back. Things will get better.
By The Other Jack
October 27, 2008 4:24 PM | Link to this
Gale
So what is that thing that is created at conception? Is it a fish? A monkey? A dog? In that “thing’s” DNA is everything that person is going to be. It is a human embryo. If I have to change basic definitions and basic science in order to have a civil debate with you about abortions, then you need to find some idiot that is willing to do that. Science is pretty black and white. Turn that DNA over to a scientist and he will send back a very black and white result iof HUMAN, every time.
As I said, I understand that abortions are a necessary part of our culture. But I’m not going to change a common sense viewpoint for the sake of trying to make us feel better about what abortions really are. it’s just a matter of having the courage to realize what we are doing.
Liberals say that they want to decrease the number of abortions. Why would they want to do that if this is just getting rid of a few errant cells?
If you can’t face what we are doing perhaps you should take a long look at what you are supporting. I concede that we need abortions. But don’t ask me to walk the goosestepping ideas of the far left that discounts yet another issue of humanity in order to rationalize what they support.
By The Other Jack
October 27, 2008 4:32 PM | Link to this
Family Values
When you calm down, come on back. I no longer converse with hysterical people.
By The Other Jack
October 27, 2008 4:36 PM | Link to this
Huh
They grow up to be like Sarah Palin. When will we see the talent show?
Why is it when people talk about Palin, they always refer to her as the brainless bimbo that is portrayed on SNL?
After all, that’s just a TV show. Or could it be that I am right about the power of overt propaganda?
By Sunshine
October 27, 2008 4:37 PM | Link to this
Ok here is the horse, its dead and we can now all start beating it! We have said this before TOJ, and maybe it makes you mad because your “god” didn’t give you the parts to do it but as Gale said, it is only a potential human! If you remove the fetus, that is what it is, what it is called, the scientific definition of what it is until it is born, it can not survive with out the woman, with out the PERSON who cares for the developing group of cells until it is a VIABLE person. We know you are not really up on your whole time line of pregnancy but this is why most people object to third term abortions, because in SOME cases the baby could have survived on its own outside of the womb. You obviously believe in some sort of soul if you believe that life begins at conception, well just because YOU believe in an intangible, undiscovered, unprovable theory of something doesn’t mean you get to make my medical decisions based on your theory! I will stay out of medical decisions regarding your testicles and you can stay out of medical decisions regarding my womb.
By Sunshine
October 27, 2008 4:52 PM | Link to this
TOJ—Why is it when people talk about Palin, they always refer to her as the brainless bimbo that is portrayed on SNL?
After all, that’s just a TV show. Or could it be that I am right about the power of overt propaganda?
OR it could be that she is a brainless bimbo! You know the news interviews she has done (the FEW) are just TV shows too, you can watch her witless non-answers on YouTube, she needs no one to make fun of her, she is alarming to watch in real life. Unable to make coherent intelligent answers to simple questions, and unable to dodge and come up with a bright remark if she doesn’t know the exact answer. Just that deer in headlights “I read them all” answers. Wake up, you are the one that has been influenced by the GOP propaganda! Her own state paper, where if we are to believe the Faux news talking points, she has 80% approval as Governor, says that she is not ready for this job. You do know that her past jobs where beauty queen, sports anchor, and mayor of a town smaller than most large office buildings. Come on, wake up, we know you are mad that your guy is losing but buck up, the rest of us have put up with a leader we didn’t trust for the last 8 years, its your turn now!
By The Other Jack
October 27, 2008 4:55 PM | Link to this
Sunshine
So when exactly did I even mention religion? I am talking about science. I didn’t say anything about a soul. I did talk about DNA. Can liberals not justify their beliefs without attacking religion?
The problem that most liberals have with religion is that it is very unscientific. Well saying that an embryo is a potential human is also very unscientific. It is human. Face it. Live with it.
What the hell is a potential human? I do know some politicians that fit that description, but they won’t let us abort them.
When you talk to other people about that “thing” that is growing inside of you, do you refer to it as that thing, or do you refer to it as a child, a baby, a son or daughter? Please don’t tell me that you have already named the “thing”. Why would you name an unhuman bunch of growing cells? By your logic, it isn’t a human until it pops out. So you have a “thing” growing in you. Isn’t that nice.
I am always amazed at what a liberal has to accept in order to justify what they believe. Unfortunately, I love history for what it teaches us. When I look back at the times in human history that a group of people so adamantly discount humanity, I am horrified at what I read and see.
By The Other Jack
October 27, 2008 5:07 PM | Link to this
Sunshine
You do know that her past jobs where beauty queen, sports anchor, and mayor of a town smaller than most large office buildings.
And this is what I would expect. You left out that she is one of 50 governors in the United States. And she is the most popular one. I am amazed at how liberal woman turn their back on a very accomplished woman because she doesn’t goose step with you.
She did very well in legitimate interviews. You know Biden crapped on himself when he was hit by hard questions. He looked like a coward, demanding that they never deal with the Orlando station again. So when do you think he will man-up and act like he isn’t scared of hard questions?
Do you think we need a coward as a president? Palin has shown more guts than Obama or Biden. And you as a woman should be damned proud of that, if you could see past the politics.
By Sunshine
October 27, 2008 5:21 PM | Link to this
I am always amazed at what a REPULICAN has to accept in order to justify what they believe. Unfortunately, I love history for what it teaches us. When I look back at the times in human history that a group of people so adamantly discount humanity, I am horrified at what I read and see. I agree, especially when it comes to capitol punishment, especially for people who are mentally challenged like in good ol’ George W’s great state of TX! Or when we bomb sovereign nations, and kill innocent civilians in their homes sitting at their kitchen table in the name of “Freedom!”. Or how about when those Republicans make sure that there are no laws on the books that would ever EVER stop someone with a criminal record from buying a semi-automatic weapon with out so much of an inconvenience as having to wait a few days! That would just be UNCONSTITUTIONAL! Yeah, TOJ you are the bringer and protector of LIFE! Keep lying to yourself so you can control woman and sleep at night!
Yes, what is inside me right now is a potential human, if I fell and caused a miscarriage I would not be charged with murder. If I accidentally shot off a gun and killed some one I would. I have hopes and dreams and look forward to the day my son is here but it does not give you the right to force me to incubate an ejaculation against my will because you think your sperm is that special! Science can grow a human ear on the back of a mouse, that does not give that ear inalienable rights!
By Gandalf, the Grey
October 28, 2008 9:05 AM | Link to this
Sunshine you are truly a {DUMBASS}! Pontntial human? That’s what you are! I wish you played with guns more. The goverment should pay for your abortions and sterilizations, cuz you shouldn’t breed!
By Gale
October 28, 2008 9:07 AM | Link to this
Palin has shown more guts than Obama or Biden and when might that have been, TOJ? What crisis has Govenor Palin faced that proves her fortitude, beyond that required of any mom in the country, that is?
And my final comment to you about abortion, since you are among the people who will not alter their minds on the issue: You don’t like abortion? Don’t have one. But I would ask that you stop thinking you have a right to decide how another person lives.
By Huh
October 28, 2008 9:08 AM | Link to this
Why is it when people talk about Palin, they always refer to her as the brainless bimbo that is portrayed on SNL?
Palin is a backward Joe SixPack fundy hick theocrat that should not be in any political position anywhere. Does that clarify the disdain many have for her?
By Gale
October 28, 2008 9:14 AM | Link to this
What’s up with long lines for early voting? I thought early voting was only available at a few locations. Of course there would be long waits if they were flooded with people. There will be more locations available on election day. Why is everyone in such a yank to vote early?
By Mara
October 28, 2008 9:47 AM | Link to this
By your logic, it isn’t a human until it pops out.”
and…? Obviously you disagree. Fine. But consider this…an acorn has the same genetic signature as an oak tree, but nobody pretends it’s a tree.
it’s rediculous to even discuss abortion here. Those who consider the destruction of an acorn (abortion) to be no different than chopping down a centuries old shade tree (murder) will NEVER agree with those who think acorns are great for feeding squirrels but not on par with an old-growth forest.
and no…I will NOT defend my view, defend my analogy, or continue that particular discussion. You believe what you believe and Sunshine, Gale, and I believe what we believe. The difference is that WE don’t care what you do with YOUR body, but you spend an inordinate amount of time trying to control the use of OURS.
‘nuff said.
By Monica
October 28, 2008 9:51 AM | Link to this
Gale, I am not doing the early voting thing because I have this gut feeling that all ballots will be thrown out when they discover a huge voter fraud. :) Besides, people in early voting are waiting in line for hours, which kind of defeats the purpose of early voting.
By Newzwyre
October 28, 2008 9:57 AM | Link to this
A treat from the editors at “The Toot: The Poor Man Institute for Freedom & Democracy & a Pony” on the problem with the GOP’s anti-Obama message:
“…once you’ve made a narrative choice, you do have to stick with it - you can’t just keep bouncing around, or people become confused. If you are telling the story of a scary vampire, you can’t decide in chapter 2 that he’s also 500 feet tall and radioactive and bent on destroying Tokyo, in chapter 3 that he is actually a giant man-eating shark, and in chapter 4 that he is all this and a super-terrorist trying to plant a nuclear bomb in Los Angeles. All of these things are, indeed, scary, but taken together they add up to a muddle.”
“This is the problem. It’s not just the McCain campaign’s problem - although their inability to pick a narrative and stick to it is a special kind of inexcusable - it’s a problem for the entire wingnut noise machine. Obama is a Marxist Muslim Arab Jesus Black White Terrorist Technocrat Racist Do-Gooder Liberal FDR Stalin Hilter Commie Fascist Gay Womanizing Naive Cynical Insider Noob Boring Radical Unaccomplished Elite Slick Gaffe-Prone Pedophile Pedophile-Seducing Liberation Theology Atheist Etc. & Anti-Etc. with a bunch of scary friends from - wait for it! - the Nineteen Hundred And Sixties. It makes no sense. It’s a jumble sale of fears and scary associations from 50 years of wingnut witch hunts and smear campaigns, a flea market of pre-owned and antique resentments, and if one does detect a semi-consistent 1960’s motif running through it all, that’s because that’s when most of these ideas were coined.”
for the entire chuckle-inducing article, google “Panic in the streets of Wingnuttia” and click on the first listing.
By Gale
October 28, 2008 10:05 AM | Link to this
Mara, I agree with you and refuse to discuss the topic further.
By Mara
October 28, 2008 10:06 AM | Link to this
Gale - What’s up with long lines for early voting?…Why is everyone in such a yank to vote early?
they’re saying that this election is likely to have the highest turnout in decades. Some early voters are concerned that if they wait until election day to vote something will go wrong with the machines, voter lists will be incorrect, there won’t be enough machines for everyone, etc. etc. etc. I’ve heard the comment that “at least by going early, if you don’t get to vote or if there’s a problem, it isn’t your last chance to have your say.”
By Gandalf, the Grey
October 28, 2008 10:10 AM | Link to this
NoBAMA is A LIAR LIAR PANTS ON FIRE!
By Sunshine
October 28, 2008 10:12 AM | Link to this
:::Clapping, Standing Ovation::: The difference is that WE don’t care what you do with YOUR body, but you spend an inordinate amount of time trying to control the use of OURS.
Mara you get the gold star for today!
By Mara
October 28, 2008 10:28 AM | Link to this
Mara you get the gold star for today!
Darn! You can tell that the economy is bad when the tiara (the old prize for Best Comment) has been replaced by a gold star. LOL!! I believe that Chilao or Netbanker had the tiara last and I don’t think it was given it back when they left.
That’s okay though. I appreciate the kudo’s anyway… :^)
By Gale
October 28, 2008 10:38 AM | Link to this
Mara, if it makes you feel better, we can stick the gold star on a visor.
By Gandalf, the Grey
October 28, 2008 10:40 AM | Link to this
Sunshine = “DUMBASS!”
By Condorcet
October 28, 2008 10:45 AM | Link to this
McCain is behind because of the pointless attacks. The country is in economic crisis, and all John’s campaign can think to do is attempt to pull down their opponent rather than try to present a plan, any plan, to improve our situation. Obama being inexperienced, or having been in the same building as Ayers or Wright no longer seems important when you’re facing economic hardship. You’re more receptive to a message that promises a better future, than one that promises bleakness.
Fear works when times are good; Hope works when times are bad.
By Mara
October 28, 2008 11:13 AM | Link to this
Gale - Mara, if it makes you feel better, we can stick the gold star on a visor.
ROTFL!! Thanks, Gale. Now I have coffee all over my computer screen :^D
By Gale
October 28, 2008 11:18 AM | Link to this
We all need something to laugh at these days.
By JokesOn
October 28, 2008 12:02 PM | Link to this
We all need something to laugh at these days.
I thought that is why we come here?!?!
Even Colbert does not have this good of satirical comedy:
“I want to legislate your body!”
“I want to tax the poor to fund the war they die in.”
“I want prayer in school, but only Christianity”
“I am not actually christian…I simply do not promote any other religion.”
By BS Aplenty
October 28, 2008 12:13 PM | Link to this
Why Obama Should Not be President
To know a man is to understand the gods to which he kneels.
The journey to understand the candidate Barack Obama must then pass through his place of worship, the Trinity United Church of Christ. A congregation where he worshipped, sang, taught and learned for twenty years. A congregation where he also found a life’s mentor in the person of TUCC’s erstwhile minister, Jeremiah Wright.
TUCC is a numerically significant and unique church among the United Churches of Christ. How unique? Unique in that it alone has adopted as doctrine the teachings of one James H. Cone, the theologian who systematized black liberation theology. And it is in the doctrine of Cone where one finds candidate Obama’s genuine worship. To many Americans that doctrine would differ markedly from what they view as Christian worship. In fact, one wonders what this archaic, racist doctrine has to do with Christianity at all as demonstrated in a doctrinal passage from Cone’s A Theology of Black Liberation:
This understanding of blackness can be seen as the most adequate symbol of the dimensions of divine activity in America. And insofar as the country is seeking to make whiteness the dominating power throughout the world, whiteness is the symbol of the Antichrist. Whiteness characterizes the activity of deranged individuals intrigued by their own image of themselves, and thus unable to see that they are what is wrong with the world. Black theology seeks to analyze the satanic nature of whiteness and by doing so to prepare all nonwhites for revolutionary action.
In passing, it may be worthwhile to point out that whites are in no position whatever to question the legitimacy of black theology. Questions like “Do you think theology is black?” or “What about others who suffer?” are the product of minds incapable of black thinking. It is not surprising that those who reject blackness in theology are usually whites who do not question the blue-eyed white Christ. It is hard to believe that whites are worried about black theology on account of its alleged alienation of other sufferers. Oppressors are not genuinely concerned about any oppressed group. It would seem rather that white rejection of black theology stems from a recognition of the revolutionary implications in its very name: a rejection of whiteness, an unwillingness to live under it, and an identification of whiteness with evil and blackness with good. [7-8]
It seems that for non-black Americans to know the soul of candidate Obama, that is, to understand what he thinks is soul-edifying worship for himself, his wife, his children, one must slog through Cone’s racist doctrine of yester-year. The ‘Change You Can Believe In’ sloganeering now simply reveals this candidate as all-too-comfortable with the politics of deception. And, Obama’s genuine worship shows him as wed to a doctrine wherein there is little tolerance for the larger American community.
The candidate then seems easy enough to parse, but what are we to make of his avid supporters who well-know the philosophical background of his church, who cheer on their candidate even with his well-known acceptance of racist thought like Cone’s? What are we to infer about an American media that seems decidedly negligent in reporting this to the voters? I’ll leave that to you good people.
TUCC recently responded to pointed observations about its racist doctrines and renovated its website removing the James H. Cone texts and other Black Liberation rhetoric. Previously, the Cone texts were the only doctrines sold on the TUCC website. The congregation has now substituted other texts for sale that do not mention Black Liberation Theology.
That “bump-bump, bump-bump” you just heard was the sound of James Cone being thrown under the political bus to provide cover for the Obama campaign. TUCC has found a way to cast out doctrine and preachers faster than Jesus could cast out demons.
Ah, can you feel the power of their political, er, religious conversion?
By Mara
October 28, 2008 12:29 PM | Link to this
anybody hear about the vote-flipping problem they’ve been having with the voting machines? Texas, West Virginia, and Tennesee…so far. E-Voting integrity has been an issue since before the ‘04 election and still we have these problems.
The software for these machines needs to be “open-source” and not protected by intellectual property rights. Open-sourcing will enable the code to be vetted by the best of the best, allow security modifications to be monitored for safety/accuracy and provide a wider pool of VERY talented programmers to suggest upgrades and improvements.
This is OUR democracy, the future of OUR nation, not some money-making proposition. We must demand that our votes are counted.
By Gandalf, the Grey
October 28, 2008 12:35 PM | Link to this
E voting allows dead people to vote, E voting allows ACORN to steal the election, Obamistan will be proud to have you as a citizen.
By mdr.
October 28, 2008 12:42 PM | Link to this
lucas you can go back to poland if you do not like it here & the question is is all repbulcion liers or is all liers rep.
By USinUK
October 28, 2008 1:26 PM | Link to this
Hi Mara, Gale, TOJ, Jokesy, Sunshine, GtG -
vacay is nice and relaxing … looks like I haven’t missed much here (abortion, abortion, abortion, same-o, same-o)
just wanted to pop in and say hello … take care … be good … I’ll swing by later if I can
By Gale
October 28, 2008 2:42 PM | Link to this
Hi USinUK. Funny, I don’t even know how that discussion got started. Isn’t that always the way?
I just noticed an article about China declaring that the wealthy nations should put up the money to reduce global warming [causes, I presume]. It seems like an odd demand coming from one of the biggest polluters. I remember that we, the USA, did not sign onto the Kyoto treaty because we felt it would harm business interests. If we didn’t join in then, why would they think we would join in now? Obama? Do they think (sort of on topic) that a new president would view this differently?
By Rose
October 28, 2008 2:56 PM | Link to this
Please read GT’s comments. Some of his comments make a lot of sense to me. To Vince, you sre stuck on stupid, aren’t you. And to “The Other Jack”, you must be embarrased by Mr. Bushwaker. H.. yeah, the Repubs are the blame thanks to your boy. Hate to admit it don’t you. I know you all want to go as far back as Clinton. Guess what, Bush has been in office for 8 years, don’t you think he had time to do a little cleanup if that was a fact that Clinton did this. You must be kidding me. Don’t hate on Obama because he is a much better candidate than old wrinkled up McCain. McCain, what a joke, all he is good at is being a very emotional and angry old man or should I say Mr. Grumpy. I have no comments for Palin, she speaks for herself. LOL. Oh yeah, what has McCain stated that he will do differently than Bush, the man he voted with 90% of the time. Huhh… what…. Haven’t heard anything yet and never will. People, what are you afraid of. You are cracking me up.
By Mara
October 28, 2008 3:13 PM | Link to this
Gale, I thought we didn’t sign Kyoto because certain folks didn’t think it was “fair” to ask developed countries to cut their (our) carbon emissions while second and third world nations didn’t have to.
…China declaring that the wealthy nations should put up the money to reduce global warming
Apparently the guy was saying that developed nations should contribute to a fund to help the third world buy clean technology, thus helping to curb climate change. I didn’t read it as a pointed finger. As for “why now”, it’s because Kyoto will expire in 2012 and China is maneuvering to becoming a player in the Kyoto II talks. Or at least that’s my guess.
Money quotes from the article I looked at -
“Developed countries’ funding to support developing countries response to climate change should reach 1 per cent of the developed countries’ GDP,”
[snip]
“Developing countries should take action against climate change, but a prerequisite was the provision of funding and technology by developed countries, Gao said in discussing China’s strategy for upcoming climate talks. China supports improving global dissemination of climate-friendly technologies.”
By bigboom fromNY
October 28, 2008 3:35 PM | Link to this
End Game, His game never started and he never had any. Obama 08.
By Gale
October 28, 2008 3:52 PM | Link to this
Mara, that is sorta the same thing, isn’t it? If the USA has to reduce emissions and other countries do not, then it puts American business at a disadvantage because of added costs. I don’t think anything has changed. When you explain it like that, however, to me, it is like paying school taxes to educate other people’s children. It is a cost in my best interest. It doesn’t mean businesses will see it that way. So, the taxpayer would be footing the bill if congress decided to appropriate the funds.
By Sunshine
October 28, 2008 4:12 PM | Link to this
Ok, now I am just confused:
COLUMBUS, Ohio (AP) — Joe the Plumber endorsed Republican John McCain for president on Tuesday and agreed that a vote for Democratic candidate Barack Obama would be “a vote for the death of Israel.”
What?!?! So Joe is kinda not really a plumber, and doesn’t own a business, and is now an expert on foreign affairs? Hasn’t this guy had his 15 minuets? This just seems a bizarre statement!
By Gandalf, the Grey
October 28, 2008 4:54 PM | Link to this
Hello Sunshine! STFU PLEASE? (you DUMBASS!)
By Gandalf, the Grey
October 28, 2008 5:14 PM | Link to this
Joe the Plumber is my sweetcakes! Don’t talk about my sweetcakes that way! I’m sorry I told you to STFU, but I, I, I just get so mad and sometimes you women are so mean! I don’t know where to go with my feelings so I lash out. I think some herb tea will help me calm down until its time to go out to dinner with my sweetcakes.
By Gandalf, the Grey
October 28, 2008 5:14 PM | Link to this
Joe the Plumber is my sweetcakes! Don’t talk about my sweetcakes that way! I’m sorry I told you to STFU, but I, I, I just get so mad and sometimes you women are so mean! I don’t know where to go with my feelings so I lash out. I think some herb tea will help me calm down until its time to go out to dinner with my sweetcakes.
By The Other Jack
October 29, 2008 8:08 AM | Link to this
Gale
You are buying into the BS if you think that is not a human in the womb of a human.
No, I won’t be calling unborn children “things” so you can feel better about what you support. Be brave. Understand what you support. Unfortunately, we all need to support it. Killing unwanted and surplus children appears to be the only answer for controlling our population in a country where 7 year olds are taught all about sex in our public schools and little girls are taught by a very liberal entertainment industry that she is only worth her ability to have sex.
But really, when Sunshine, a person who claims to be pregnant started referring to her unborn child as a “future human”, the blog reached that plateau of creepiness that it reaches occasionally. I’m glad I am on a shoot all week and you won’t have to hear my opinion of a mother who refers to her baby as a future human. I just hope her child will eventually be more important to her than her politics. Hell, I just hope she will eventually refer to her child as a person.
And hysterical blabbering pro-abortionists.: no one cares what you do with your body. It’s just that living human in your body: that child, your son or daughter, that’s who we care about. We are all just astonished that you don’t care about your own child. You guys can hi five all you want, and I’m sure you will feel better after the sermon you are about to write, preaching at me about everything EXCEPT the child who you advocate killing. But save your energy. I’ll just see the very same talking points that you are taught to say that again SAY NOTHING ABOUT THE CHILD YOU ADVOCATE KILLING.
Rose.
I’m not embarrassed by President Bush. I’m embarrassed by how easily most Americans were brainwashed about him by the media. I’m embarrassed that most Americans don’t know that the Democrats have controlled the most unpopular Congress in our history for the last two years.
I “don’t hate on” Obama. I don’t hate anybody. I just want our country to improve and Obama is promising some very hard times for working Americans. His definition of wealthy has gone from 250 grand to 150 grand and that is before the election. As far as his candidacy, I have said that he is a state of the art Democratic politician. You don’t get any better. Unfortunately, politicians are known for being liars and thieves. I don’t think we need a good politician, I think we need a good leader. And a slick Chicago lawyer that has worked for a terrorist, has partied with a leader of the PLO, has also worked for a mobster and exposed his children to a ranting racist madman for their entire lives is not who I want to lead my country.
But try to hold down that overt hate a little bit. Hate for people who don’t think like you is the doorway to fascism. Disagreeing is fine. Allowing disagreement grows your character. But hate takes your life-force.
By The Other Jack
October 29, 2008 8:11 AM | Link to this
USinUK
Have fun on your European Vacation. You should make a movie. I hear Chevy Chase is available.
By Gale
October 29, 2008 9:57 AM | Link to this
Did anyone here used to read Molly Ivans column? I have often wished she was around to comment on this election cycle. She is sorely missed.
By Gandalf, the Grey
October 29, 2008 10:23 AM | Link to this
Gandalf you wrote “By Gandalf, the Grey
October 28, 2008 5:14 PM | Link to this
Joe the Plumber is my sweetcakes! Don’t talk about my sweetcakes that way! I’m sorry I told you to STFU, but I, I, I just get so mad and sometimes you women are so mean! I don’t know where to go with my feelings so I lash out. I think some herb tea will help me calm down until its time to go out to dinner with my sweetcakes.
” You puss! STFU! Quit drinking that tea! You are coming close to being a (DUMBASS!) Women need to be spanked when they are naugthy!!
By Gandalf, the Grey
October 29, 2008 10:28 AM | Link to this
EXPAT remember, at any time of the day of night you feel bored, go into the nearest pub and order a Guinness. Beer google make everything more fun!
By Gandalf, the Grey
October 29, 2008 10:54 AM | Link to this
you wrote? By mdr.
October 28, 2008 12:42 PM | Link to this
lucas you can go back to poland if you do not like it here & the question is is all repbulcion liers or is all liers rep.
I write: YOU DUMBASS! GO BACK TO DUMBASS SCHOOL AND LEARN TO SPELL AND THINK COHERENTLY! YOU AND THE ELDEST OF EIGHTH GRADERS NEED SOME TOGETHER TIME TO SEE WHICH ONE IS DUMBER! THE ANSWER IS: mdr. is dumber than a box of hammers, and is going to vote for that lying liar named Barry! YOU DUMBASS!
By USinUK
October 29, 2008 12:09 PM | Link to this
Gale -
Did anyone here used to read Molly Ivans column? I have often wished she was around to comment on this election cycle. She is sorely missed.
not only did I used to read Molly religiously, I went to 2 book signings just so I could hear her speak. my god, that woman could tell stories like no one else.
the first time I met her, I was working for the GA state house - I had just finished reading “Molly Ivins Can’t Say That Can She” - when I went up to have her sign my copy, I told her that it seems like the ninnies she wrote about left Austin to come to Atlanta for our leg sessions. it’s the same guys! the same personalities.
she is so sorely missed - she would have la-la-LOVED seeing Obama in this campaign. and she would have mourned how low McCain has stooped.
anyhoooo … my holidays just took a turn for the weird - we got a little over an inch of SNOW last night!! I mean, WTF is that??? all last week, we had temps in the 50s and 60s, and we get snow??? criminey.
By USinUK
October 29, 2008 12:18 PM | Link to this
EXPAT remember, at any time of the day of night you feel bored, go into the nearest pub and order a Guinness. Beer google make everything more fun!
hahaha … beer goggles are responsible for many family trees not ending with the dullest/ugliest branch …
By Bruno
October 29, 2008 12:23 PM | Link to this
Howdy gang—It looks pretty quiet around the OK corral this afternoon. Maybe Gandalf has finally driven all of the women away from the blog with his abusive language. Either that, or TOJ’s seeming insistence to make abortion the topic du jour every day this week.
At any rate, I want to be the first to congratulate all of the liberals on board for Obama’s upcoming Presidential victory. Unless a last-minute miracle occurs, it looks like he has a lock on the election. I would think that under “normal” circumstances, someone who holds the extreme views that he does (direct wealth redistribution, appeasement of our enemies, etc.) would never be elected. Unfortunately, the combination of Bush’s unpopularity, an economy which is in the tank, along with the extremely poor campaign conducted by McCain has apparently caused people to embrace “change at any cost” in the form of Obama.
As one who loves our great country, I’m praying that we can survive the next four years without too much damage done. I’m particularly worried about the fact that as many as three Supreme Court positions may become available within the next Presidential term. If Obama loads the court up with far-left liberal judges, there’s no telling what kind of craziness will ensue. Personal property rights may become a thing of the past, as witnessed by the current court’s embrace of an expanded “eminent domain” policy by which local governments can arbitrarily seize any property they want, whether residential or commercial, and give to a developer, all in the name of “the public good”. Never mind the fact that the language in the Constitution allows such seizures only when the land is to be used for “public use”, and NOT for the “public good”.
By Bruno
October 29, 2008 12:35 PM | Link to this
On a personal front, I’m not sure how I’m going to afford an Obama Presidency if he is able to follow through on his campaign pledges to raise taxes. I currently have about 60K equity in my remaining rental property, for which I am expecting to pay 9K in capital gains taxes along with whatever “ordinary income” is “recaptured” due to depreciation write-offs in years past. Under Obama, I’ll have to pay 18K in capital gains taxes, along with the “ordinary income” taxes. Frankly, I need the extra 9K right now, and feel no compulsion to directly supplement the incomes of others via Obama’s wealth distribution schemes by which “poor” people will receive a check directly from the government.
BTW, has Obama ever settled on a consistent tax policy? The $250,000 threshhold for paying higher taxes was reduced again to $200,000 for single people, or is that $150,000 as Biden stated on the campaign trail the other day?? If the Bush tax cuts are rescinded (as promised), people who earn as little as $42,000 will be paying more.
On top of it all, if I’m forced to purchase government-mandated health insurance, I’m going to be bankrupt before the end of next year. For all of McCain’s faults, at least he would let me be a free person who is “allowed” to spend the money I worked hard for as I see fit. I’m so glad that Obama knows what is “best for me”.
By Gandalf, the Grey
October 29, 2008 12:45 PM | Link to this
OOPS SORRY BRUNO! DID I RUN ALL THE D******* OFF? DARNIT!
By Bruno
October 29, 2008 12:46 PM | Link to this
Gotta run—And while all of you are spitting on Bush in his last days in office, don’t forget the fact that we have had no further attacks by radical Muslims since September, 2001 on AMerican soil. I’m not sure whom all of you give the credit for that to but, in my mind, one man alone deserves credit: Bush.
I also would like to hear some opinions about the lack of any new regulatory laws for the banking industry the past two years under Democratic rule in Congress. I saw a clip of Barney Frank last night praising FannieMae and FreddieMac as late as July of this year. In addition, he, along with the rest of the Democrats, voted AGAINST further oversight/regulation of the mortgage industry approximately 2 years ago. Yet, somehow, the Democrats have remaind blameless throughout this whole mess.
By Gale
October 29, 2008 12:47 PM | Link to this
I’m not ready to concede the election to Obama. The electoral college has surprised us in the past. However, McCain’s campaign was lost before it started. The republicans could surely have selected a stronger candidate.
By Gandalf, the Grey
October 29, 2008 12:48 PM | Link to this
Bruno, it’s actually if you have ever made $250K cumlative that he will raise taxes! Not annually! The Father of Lies is tricky!
By USinUK
October 29, 2008 12:54 PM | Link to this
Brunoooooooooooooooo -
even though I know you already have your anti-Obama talking points down pat, you might be interested in doing a little reading to get the facts.
Obama would again limit any increases in capital-gains rates, as well as taxes on dividends, to households making over $250,000 or individuals bringing in more than $200,000. For those folks, he proposes increasing the maximum rate to somewhere between 20% and 25%.
if you’re interested, BusinessWeek did a great side-by-side comparison of the 2 candidates, with taxes being the first issue they review.
http:// images. businessweek. com/ss/08/10/1027candidatespositions/index.htm
(copy, paste, delete extra spaces)
seriously - everytime you misquote the Obama plan, you do yourself a disservice.
By Bruno
October 29, 2008 12:59 PM | Link to this
I’m not ready to concede the election to Obama. The electoral college has surprised us in the past. However, McCain’s campaign was lost before it started. The republicans could surely have selected a stronger candidate.
I wish I had paid more attention to Mitt Romney. I was scared away from him due to his religious views.
Bruno, it’s actually if you have ever made $250K cumlative that he will raise taxes! Not annually! The Father of Lies is tricky!
I’m not sure exactly what Obama’s plans are since he keeps changing them. I’ve heard it said that the $250K figure (or is that $200K or $150K?) will apply to the GROSS of a business, and not the NET income generated. Either way, I expect that ll of us are looking at a tax increase, and not just the “rich”.
Any bets that we will see an expansion of “hate crime” legislation under Obama?? Will the use of “racial terms” become a crime punishable by law?? Already, Obama has made intimations that he wants to shut down conservative TV and radio shows, which he considers to be “hateful”.
By Lyrazel
October 29, 2008 1:03 PM | Link to this
Bruno, Don’t blame TOJ I started the fracus with an opinion. Don’t blame McCain blame his handlers. McCain is actually one of the smarter cookies in politics with experience and fortitude to back up his credentials—but the way he has been pigeon-holed to support right-wing extremists in the Party instead of remaining on his moderate fiscally conservative small government stance says more about PARTY than McCain. His ability to work with both sides has been so mismanaged and under-served by his PARTY handlers —his own candidacy never followed some of his core beliefs—why? Anyway after years of liking the man and where he stood as a fiscal moderate the new frothing McCain does not inspire any confidence to vote for him.
Obama was not the man the PARTY wanted thus he was able to maintain his campaign in a way Clinton could not have done with all her party handlers in tow. When she failed the party picked up Obama but he already had handlers and was capable of running his puppet show his own way. Party made him choose Biden. Party WANTED him to choose Clinton but after her cut about becoming HER vp while he was already ahead in the polls ended that.
No campaigner keeps their promises. Its too easy to promise hope than to package it and send it into the public. Pledges are made for teleprompters and to rally the already with to cheer on in hopes of more joining the bandwagon. America is a bandwagon culture—few ever dare be indiviulaistic as we dream ourselves to be—indeed more Americans are as maverick—as Palin & McCain. Staid & boring & conservative
By Sunshine
October 29, 2008 1:19 PM | Link to this
Oh Bruno, dear Bruno, I know it is depressing to have someone elected that you COMPLETELY disagree with (I was there 4 and 8 years ago, I was crushed after the Supreme court handed over the presidency!) but it is all cyclical! You make so many thoughtful points and I enjoy, even when I don’t agree with you, your intelligent banter, don’t give into this Chicken Little syndrome! Bad and good politicians and presidents have come and gone and the foundations of our very civilization have not crumbled! I know we are at the end of this political game and it is time to pull out all the boggy men to scare undecideds but the truth is no politician makes all his promises come true, AND we still live in a pretty nice corner of the world! So chin up! It will all be ok!
By USinUK
October 29, 2008 1:32 PM | Link to this
Bad and good politicians and presidents have come and gone and the foundations of our very civilization have not crumbled! I know we are at the end of this political game and it is time to pull out all the boggy men to scare undecideds but the truth is no politician makes all his promises come true, AND we still live in a pretty nice corner of the world! So chin up! It will all be ok!
and that is why I’m Sunshine’s #1 fan.
well said, sunshine …
By Samantha Bee
October 29, 2008 1:32 PM | Link to this
Thank you John McCain for finally exposing the seedy underbelly of the women’s health scam. Let’s face it: Women love abortions and will anything to get one. The later the better. “Hemorrhages.” “Severe uterine infections.” “Dying.” Blah blah blah blah blah.
And while we’re at it, enough of the whining about “rape,” “incest,” and “incest rape.” We’re on to you, ladies! Those aren’t a golden ticket to the abortion factory, okay?
Listen, John McCain has finally put the concerns of women where they belong: in derisive air quotes. And this transcends politics. Reasonable people can disagree about abortion but still agree about the unimportance of women’s health.
—Samantha Bee, The Daily Show, 10-28-2008
By JokesOn
October 29, 2008 1:33 PM | Link to this
seriously - everytime you misquote the Obama plan, you do yourself a disservice.
I dinged you each time dog, and you still refuse to look to get educated.
That, along with the misinformation of being safer under WB is disappointing. He was provided with info on the immediate threats from Bin Laden yet ignored them. Then, after 9/11, he and Cheney insisted on receiving all threats unfiltered (which is insane since most are bs), got all worked up, circumvented anyone that did not share their new found paranoia, which led us into Iraq and the torturing. They pi$$ed away billions of dollars (yours and mine - talking about redistributing wealth, how do you feel about pi$$ing it away?) rebuilding a country for petrol purposes while Afghanistan goes to pot and Bin Laden is powerful as ever.
So, although I will be the first to state that WB is not in any way pure evil or such; he is an idiot and Cheney is a paranoid loose cannon.
As for Obama, you know as well as I that a president does not change things as much as you and the doom/gloomers state unless they abuse and extend their executive powers like the current admin. He is going to have to deal with all the issues at his feet before breaking any new ground - and most of us know that. What is most important now is that we have a smart and metered president, which Obama fulfills and McCain does not.
By Sunshine
October 29, 2008 1:36 PM | Link to this
As Mark Morford said this morning:
“Let’s not get carried away.
Let’s not go so far as to suggest we’re about to enter into some sort of fluffy utopian tofu puppy happyland where nipples fly free and consciousness expands and the fetid rivers of racism and homophobia that course through the American heartland like acidic sewage somehow magically vanish, somehow become dramatically curtailed, should the twin forces of progress known as President Obama and a vanquished California Proposition 8 somehow come to pass.
Let’s not be naive.”
By Sunshine
October 29, 2008 1:51 PM | Link to this
:::Blush::: Why thank you USinUK! You know it is hard to come up with these post because most of my day is spent “claiming to be pregnant” as TOJ has pointed out! ;-)
I have to say that I am a fan of Jokeson today! Yeah for this line:
you know as well as I that a president does not change things as much as you and the doom/gloomers state unless they abuse and extend their executive powers like the current admin. AND What is most important now is that we have a smart and metered president, which Obama fulfills and McCain does not. Well said!
By Gandalf, the Grey
October 29, 2008 2:06 PM | Link to this
Since the Supreme Court STOLE the election last time, why do you pathetic conspiracy idiots think you can win this time! W will rally the court and win again! YOU ARE OUTSMARTED! Capitalist Rule, Liberal Socialists drool!
By Gandalf, the Grey
October 29, 2008 2:10 PM | Link to this
LET ME SPELL THIS OUT TO YALL: OBAMA IS THE ANTI-CHRIST A VOTE FOR HIM DOOMS YOU ETERNALLY TO SOCIALISM TAXES WILL BE THE MARK OF THE BEAST THE FATHER OF LIES IS LYING! WHY? BECAUSE MUSLIMS ONLY TELL THE TRUTH TO OTHER MUSLIMS!
By USinUK
October 29, 2008 2:14 PM | Link to this
Sunshine -
You know it is hard to come up with these post because most of my day is spent “claiming to be pregnant” as TOJ has pointed out! ;-)
silly rabbit. pregnancy is for kids.
no, wait. that’s not it.
just keep in mind, no one knows as much about pregnancy as TOJ - remember when he scoffed at the 40-week gestation?? - just ask him, he’ll tell you all you need to know. and thank goodness he has the inside track on the mind of god and can define without question when an embryo should be considered a human.
despite the fact that most theologians don’t agree on that.
me, I think that if they are going to start considering zygotes as human, then zygotes should be given the vote - which, of course, means that, since it has no high-level thinking or manual dexterity, that the mother should be able to vote in its place. whattaya think??
By Sunshine
October 29, 2008 2:25 PM | Link to this
Ooo Oooo! I like your theory USinUK, I get to cast two votes for Mr. Obama! ;-)
So are you making snow angels yet? And what are you doing hanging around with us hooligans on your Vaca!?!
By Gandalf, the Grey
October 29, 2008 2:51 PM | Link to this
Maybe if we don’t call them human till they make over say 40K a year. Abort up to age, say 19? Good thought train there EXPAT! SUNSHINE JUMPED RIGHT ON! YEAH! THAT is always a good sign!
By JokesOn
October 29, 2008 2:53 PM | Link to this
me, I think that if they are going to start considering zygotes as human, then zygotes should be given the vote - which, of course, means that, since it has no high-level thinking or manual dexterity, that the mother should be able to vote in its place. whattaya think??
But watch out! If a pregnant woman becomes ill and passes, it might be you who is elected to play surrogate (cannot let a potential human die!). The next thing you know you will be hooked up to machines and a baby inside your belly.
Or worse,it will become a republican plot to kill pregnant democrats and the surrogates will be palin-esque women with the sole intention of getting the double vote - as well as bringing up that child all godly and such.
And fyi, if TOJ has his way he will mandate a new law that changes the gestation period for humans.
By Gale
October 29, 2008 3:55 PM | Link to this
This conversation is reminding me of sci-fi stories I have read.
By USinUK
October 29, 2008 4:18 PM | Link to this
sunshine -
snowangels??? are you high?? I am a southern girl through and through - the only way to see show is looking out a window from a nice, warm house!
as far as hanging out with the W2W irregulars on my holiday - we’ll be back to doing stuff tomorrow, today was a vegetating kinda day … watching old movies while Mr. USinUK played on his computer.
Jokesy -
If a pregnant woman becomes ill and passes, it might be you who is elected to play surrogate (cannot let a potential human die!). The next thing you know you will be hooked up to machines and a baby inside your belly.
sounds a lot like the movie Coma …
By rick
October 29, 2008 4:25 PM | Link to this
obama / biden supporters.
vote now if you can, don’t wait.
we can’t be complacent about the poll numbers. votes are what get counted in this country. the victory must be overwhelming so republicans have no way to steal this election.
YES WE CAN !!!!!
By Sunshine
October 29, 2008 4:34 PM | Link to this
Good to hear you are safe and warm USinUK! Oh and I didn’t have time earlier but remember no one knows as much about pregnancy as TOJ NO ONE knows as much about ANYTHING other than TOJ, we are all wrong, wrong, wrong.
I feel bad for the Republicans right now, I had the sinking feeling of dread when their numbers spiked after their convention. I know that it makes you feel hopeless about your voice in the election. I really do not think Mr. Obama will be the monster/terrorist/communist/Muslim/Jew hater/destroyer of democracy that the right is making him out to be though. I could be wrong but, I think it isn’t very likely that he will get the filibuster proof congress that the DNC is trying for and I think he will present ideas/proposals and some will pass and some won’t. I am not trying to count chickens, but I think a highly intellectual, calm, polished president will do wonders for our image around the world!
By Gandalf, the Grey
October 29, 2008 4:36 PM | Link to this
Obamistani’s unite! Global Warming is our catch phrase! We shall willing give up the rights the GWB took away to further you cause oh great leader! Hope he dresses up in his Hoplite costume for the Coronation, err, I mean inauguration! Peace on Earth at the price of all US intrests! Let’s eliminate the US after we tax them to rubble! YEAH we are citizens of the worlds! Peace and Redistribution of Wealth to all! Health care to all! Food and clothing to all! From Each according to his means, to each according to his needs! Four legs good, two legs bad! YEAH OBAMISTAN! Let’s adopt the EURO and just get rid of the stupid dollar! YEAH!
By Sunshine
October 29, 2008 4:50 PM | Link to this
wow. someone didn’t take their meds today.
By Gandalf, the Grey
October 29, 2008 4:59 PM | Link to this
SUNSHINE! Sorry, can’t afford them all the time!
RIKI TIKI TIVI! WAKE UP WE SHALL ONCE AGAIN STEAL THE ELeCTION! With the ELectRONC VOTing MACHINes! (DUM BASS!) ALL ARE BASES ARE BELONG TO US!
By Mara
October 30, 2008 8:15 AM | Link to this
WARNING! This will be a long cut-n-paste but the old broad says what a lot of us have been saying for a while now…only funnier. Enjoy.
——————————————————~ My name is Helen Philpot. I am 82 years old. My grandson taught me how to do this so that I could “blog” with my best friend Margaret Schmechtman who I met in college almost 60 years ago. I have three children with my husband Harold. Margaret has three dogs with her husband Howard. I live in Texas and Margaret lives in Maine. ~
from the “Margaret and Helen” blog —
I am surprised that some of you are up in arms about my calling Sarah Palin a b-tch, or John McCain an -ss or even George Bush a jack-ss. I read your comments about how I should be more respectable and not call Sarah Palin a b-tch. Some of you are actually praying for me because I called John McCain an -ss. In particular I am struck by the comments that suggest the problem with our country is that we can’t have an intelligent conversation to solve our problems without resorting to name calling like when I called George Bush a jack-ss.
Well this old broad is hurt. Clearly I didn’t start this blog to call Sarah Palin a b-tch…or John McCain an -ss… or even George Bush a jack-ss. I am so sorry if I have offended any of you. What was I thinking when I called Sarah Palin a b-tch?
New rules:
I will stop calling George Bush a jack-ss when he stops calling me a terrorist: Either you are with us, or you are with the terrorists.
I will stop calling John McCain an -ss when he stops calling Barack Obama a socialist at every dog and pony show on the Straight Talk Express tour.
I will stop calling Sarah Palin a b-tch when she stops calling Obama a terrorist sympathizer. And I will stop calling Sarah Palin a b-tch when she stops calling the parts of the country where I don’t live more Pro-American than the part of the country where I do live. And I will definitely stop calling Sarah Palin a b-tch when she stops acting like a b-tch.
I’m old enough to remember the Republican party of Barry Goldwater - when the party stood for fiscal responsibility, small government and personal freedoms. I remember when I could talk with friends about politics and just agree to disagree. And then religious nut cases decided that if you didn’t agree with them you were immoral. So they went and elected George Bush President so he could take the Republican Party from being a party full of respectable people to a party filled with -sses, jack-sses and yes - b-tches like Sarah Palin.
I am tired of Rush Limbaugh suggesting that feminism is a dirty word. How hard did he fight to gain the right to vote? Or own property in his own name? Or get equal pay for equal work?
And I am tired of Sean Hannity suggesting I am un-American because I don’t think that war is the answer to everything. How many bullets has he taken defending his country in battle?
And I am tired that Sarah Palin can decide what she wants to do with her body but other women can’t make that decision for themselves.
NEW, New Rules:
If you are not for me, you are against me. I’ll get over it. Now kindly return the favor.
Oh…and one last thing. Elisabeth Hasselbeck is still a moron. There is just no way around that, Folks.
view more straight talk at Margaretandhelen.wordpress.com
By The Other Jack
October 30, 2008 8:46 AM | Link to this
USinUK
and thank goodness he has the inside track on the mind of god and can define without question when an embryo should be considered a human.
Please point out where I said anything about God. A single word. Anything.
It is so sad that the only argument you have, you don’t have. I’m talking about hard science. When authorities find a discarded human fetus, they call it a discarded human fetus. They don’t call it anything else. They call it human because that is what it is.
DNA, DNA, DNA, DNA. It’s not religion. It’s not God. it is the thing that none of you can deny. It is the simple science that says that humans produce human babies. Whether that baby has been born or not means nothing as to what that PERSON is that is growing in a woman’s womb.
A human egg joins with a human sperm, but the resulting being, animal, mammal, is going to be, (drum roll please) HUMAN. What kind of uneducated IDIOT would not agree with that statement?
I have been around a lot of pregnant women including my wife who was pregnant with my children. If anyone had tried to say that their babies were “future humans” you would have had a huge fight on your hands. You can believe that Sunshine’s friends all say “how”s your future human”. I’m not buying it and if you do, that just proves the level of your own indoctrination.
So you guys high five and think of stupid little zingers, but you are cowards. if you are going to advocate killing human babies before they get a chance to be born, have the friggin’ courage to face what you are doing. Don’t expect the world to deny basic science in order to redefine a human embryo as anything but an human embryo, just to make you feel better about what you support.
It is troubling that you and your little friends are so indoctrinated that you would even redfine terms to match your horrible and sick mantra. But for you guys to giggle and high five about any insults that you can think of against anyone who won’t agree with your nonsense borders on fascism.
I won’t be bullied by a small group of woman that have sadly adopted an untrue and ridicules stance so they don’t have to think about the fact that they advocate killing humans before that human gets a chance to live their life.
Sometimes you seem like you have a brain. And then you post the kind of crap you posted yesterday.
By Gale
October 30, 2008 8:57 AM | Link to this
TOJ, ::yawn:: The discussion has ended and I, for one, will let you have the last word because I really do not care what you think about this issue.
By The Other Jack
October 30, 2008 9:07 AM | Link to this
Gale
I wouldn’t want to discuss it either, if I were you.
By Sunshine
October 30, 2008 9:46 AM | Link to this
TOJ-At the risk of feeding the monster I will say you just proved our point:
its going to be, (drum roll please) HUMAN —Finally we agree, it’s GOING TO BE, just like the acorn, but a lot can happen between now and then. And on your DNA, DNA, DNA, DNA Rant, stem cells CAN BE anything, a liver, bone marrow, a kidney, any part of the human body, BUT that does not mean we call a stem cell a liver, see how this works? DNA is a building block that is all!
And as far as what my friends ask me! They ask how MY pregnancy is going! Because up until a few weeks from now when the little guy would be able to live with out my body he is a HUMAN EMBRIO as you said, not a child, not fully developed. You can rant and scream all you want but as I said before unless you are the doctor or the father you have NO say!
And since you believe all life is so precious please do tell me all about how you are against the military, capitol punishment and automatic weapons, or is that just splitting hairs for you?
I will stop now ladies, I promise. You all are right, at this point there is no getting through to him, ignoring him will be the best course of action!
By JokesOn
October 30, 2008 9:53 AM | Link to this
I wouldn’t want to discuss it either, if I were you.
Does that mean you have some idea of how obtuse you are? Good.
I’m talking about hard science. When authorities find a discarded human fetus, they call it a discarded human fetus.
Yup. Not a baby and not a human, but quantified as a human fetus. That specificity is there for a reason: it is not a formed and functional being. You can spin it the other way all you want, but the fact is (hard science) that the facilities of said fetus is reactionary only - no processes allowing it to “experience” its womb world or be self aware in any capacity.
Now, I challenge anyone to compare that definition with a full grown adult woman. You will either have to insultingly debase women to reactionary beings with no higher thinking, or inaccurately elevate the fetus’ status (usually manipulating people using adult human terms as you do which is not “Hard Science”) to that of an adult thinking woman’s abilities.
(at least the doom and gloom conversation has waned…yawn)
By Gale
October 30, 2008 9:54 AM | Link to this
I’ve been thinking about all the early voting. Don’t states still restrict sales of alchohol on election day, or is that a thing of the past? It was meant to keep politicians from unduely encouraging votes. How does that work when voting is spread over such a long period? Also, as often comes up when voter turnout is discussed, voting is mandatory in Australia and they vote on a Saturday. I remember reading that a fine is issued for citizens who don’t vote. Seems like a good idea.
By Mara
October 30, 2008 9:55 AM | Link to this
did anybody watch Obama’s informercial last night?
By Sunshine
October 30, 2008 9:56 AM | Link to this
Correction Embryo
By Gandalf, the Grey
October 30, 2008 9:56 AM | Link to this
MARA! That old lady is a potty mouth AND a (Dum BASS!). Foolish old bat should go suck oxygen and STFU!
By Gale
October 30, 2008 10:02 AM | Link to this
Sunshine, you come up with much better logic than I on that (unnamed) issue. I like the stem cell argument.
By Gandalf, the Grey
October 30, 2008 10:05 AM | Link to this
SUNSHINE AND the Eldest of 8th graders, welcome and I for one am glad to read you silly post this morning! I can sleep better at night knowing you too are going to vote for the Father of Lies come Tuesday! I bet you both watched Barry last night? On his lie funded INFOMERCIAL?
Innocent life is precious, not life! That’s a silly concept for you to understand I bet! Murders make choices and should pay the ultimate price for thier deeds. Festus and his friends did nothing but park in some horny womans uterus, not quite the same thing. But kill as you please! That’s up to you! Personally I would keep that baby, I mean festus!
Eldest of 8th Graders! STFU! YOU DUM BASS!
By Gale
October 30, 2008 10:09 AM | Link to this
Mara, the very expensive political ad to use up some of that half billion in campaign funding before the campaign is over? No.
By Sunshine
October 30, 2008 10:10 AM | Link to this
did anybody watch Obama’s informercial last night?
I sure did, of course I have made my stance clear here, but I think that it was a huge score for Mr. Obama. He looked so very calm, cool, in control, and presidential, I think it will do a lot to dispel the whole “he’s not one of us” type mentality. I didn’t get to see his interview with Charles Gibson, which I wanted to see, but I bet that Obama didn’t say anything about seeing foreign countries from his home state giving him foreign policy experience! ;-)
By Sunshine
October 30, 2008 10:16 AM | Link to this
Thanks Gale, I think it is funny, every time someone makes a credible argument the silence is deafening from TOJ.
By Gandalf, the Grey
October 30, 2008 10:17 AM | Link to this
Is JOKESON A Lady?
By Gandalf, the Grey
October 30, 2008 10:22 AM | Link to this
He is the Father of Lies, and when a real man stands up to him, he will back down like the little biotch he is. HE will get us into WW III! He is Spamalot to Jack’s Camelot!
By Gandalf, the Grey
October 30, 2008 10:24 AM | Link to this
Death to tyrants, little unborn babies and murders!
By Sunshine
October 30, 2008 10:24 AM | Link to this
Is this really the best game plan, 5 days before an election, in a state you are trying to win?:
A McCain-Palin campaign official snubbed the president of Penn State University who inquired about attending a campus speech Tuesday by Republican vice-presidential candidate Sarah Palin, university officials told ABCNews.com.
“He’s a big Democrat. Why would he want to meet Palin?” campaign aide Russ Bermel allegedly asked a school employee who was hoping to make arrangements for president Graham B. Spanier to meet Palin, according to Spanier’s office.
seems like the same old same old, from the same ariticle:
*Gov. Palin spoke Tuesday night before about 7,000 people at a “closed” event at the school’s Rec Hall that was open only to people invited by the campaign. “It was a decision made by a campaign advance staff member,” said Mahon. “We were told that president Spanier could not come.” *
Wow! Rovian tactics at their best!
By Sunshine
October 30, 2008 10:26 AM | Link to this
Is JOKESON A Lady? No, he just has a brain, and doesn’t act like he is 9 years old.
By Gandalf, the Grey
October 30, 2008 10:29 AM | Link to this
So the tactics that OBAMA used last night remind me of a certain orator in Germany from the 1930’s. STFU Sunshine!
By Gandalf, the Grey
October 30, 2008 10:29 AM | Link to this
So the tactics that OBAMA used last night remind me of a certain orator in Germany from the 1930’s. STFU Sunshine!
By Gale
October 30, 2008 10:38 AM | Link to this
Sunshine, things like that make you wonder.
By Sunshine
October 30, 2008 10:44 AM | Link to this
So the tactics that OBAMA used last night remind me of a certain orator in Germany from the 1960’s— Me too Gandalf! I thought he was very reminiscent of JFK, glad to see Mr. Obama had your attention while you viewed his pitch last night!
By Mara
October 30, 2008 10:47 AM | Link to this
Gale - the very expensive political ad to use up some of that half billion in campaign funding
and most of it in small bills from private, individual donars. Very impressive.
Sunshine - I sure did…
LOL! I surfed back and forth between it and ANTM. And if you thought snubbing people who don’t agree with you is bad, how about the way they’re treating the folks who DO agree with them?!
“Lara Elborno, a student at the University of Iowa, said she was approached by a police officer and a McCain staffer and was told she had to leave or she would be arrested for trespassing.”
“It was a very confusing, very frustrating situation,” Elborno said. “I said that I had a right to be there, I wasn’t doing anything disruptive — I was sitting, waiting for the rally to start.”
“She said McCain staffers wouldn’t tell her why she was being asked to leave and when she got outside, she saw “a group of about 20 people” who had all been asked to leave.”
I saw a couple that had been escorted out and they were confused as well, and the girl was crying, so I said ‘Why are you crying? and she said ‘I already voted for McCain, I’m a Republican, and they said we had to leave because we didn’t look right,’” Elborno said. “They were handpicking these people and they had nothing to go off of, besides the way the people looked.”
(continued at iowastatedaily.com)
By Sunshine
October 30, 2008 11:14 AM | Link to this
Mara, unfortunately it does not surprise me one bit. This has been the GOP’s SOP for YEARS! They have done it in all three of their last conventions, throwing out anyone who doesn’t agree with them, GWB has had picked any and all attendees to all most all of his events, but the real test of character comes from when they DON’T throw people out of their events (and if you saw the film clips from McCain’s convention this year you know that they literally grabbed people, yanked them up by their clothes, and threw them out!). Its the people who shout “Terrorist, KILL HIM, Trader, ect” at their rallies and get to stay. That is the truly revealing moment.
By Archie
October 30, 2008 11:15 AM | Link to this
One thing McCain can do is to get together with his vice presidential candidate. My goodness McCain’s people are already calling Palin a diva,rogue,etc. If you don’t like who you picked why can’t we question your judgement? Also to Shanti I would simply say the experience argument is really bogus because it’s the experienced people that caused taxpayers to spend 700 billion dollars to bail the experienced people out. We have a war going on that needs to be stopped because if your principles are right you don’t need to lie about your reasons. We don’t need another liar,experienced person to keep our men and women in harm’s way and spend up all the money while at the same time not doing much for the troops. McCain’s endgame should be to go home and count his money and since he has so much of it he will have plenty to do. This country needs change so let’s hear it for Obama/Biden. My post is obviously partisan but then so is the commentary so deal with it. Go Obama/Biden.
By Gale
October 30, 2008 11:24 AM | Link to this
I’m afraid I agree with Gandalf on the 1930s similarity. Both show a penchant for speaking before huge assemblies of people who all cheer the same things so they can look around and see that the ‘world’ agrees with them. My partner has warned me that I shouldn’t say that in public. Though from Mara’s last post, it looks like the republicans are using the same play book.
By Gandalf, the Grey
October 30, 2008 11:27 AM | Link to this
JFK? Another blowhard! He did nothing, but get us wrapped up in Viet Nam and almost got us in a NUKLAR war with the Reds over Castro. I as talking about Hitler you (Dum BASS!) Peace through War!
By JokesOn
October 30, 2008 11:28 AM | Link to this
Hey Archie.
Hope all is well.
I got 3 TRs last night (table runs - as in shooting pool for the rest of you). Dang good night of shooting.
By Gandalf, the Grey
October 30, 2008 11:34 AM | Link to this
Gale it really sucks when I am right. The NAZI’s had a good gameplan, albeit an EVIL one. THIS IS VERY frightening actually!
By Gale
October 30, 2008 11:34 AM | Link to this
JokesOn, Do you play with all the balls on the table or nine balls like they show in the tournaments on TV?
By Sunshine
October 30, 2008 11:36 AM | Link to this
Gale really, you believe there are similarities between Hitler and Mr. Obama? Do you really believe that Mr. Obama believes in a master race, wants world domination and believes that his country and he should be in charge of the entire world, oh yeah and that he is hoping to blame all of our problems on one specific religious group and racially target them for termination? Come on, please don’t tell me that you believe that because Mr. Obama has great support after a President that has an approval rating in the teens, and because he is a stirring orator you believe he is like one of the greatest Monsters of Human kind?
By Gandalf, the Grey
October 30, 2008 11:37 AM | Link to this
So now we know why you spent so much time in grade school! Perfecting the ol’ pool game! 3 table runs is quite impressive! Hope you had money on the 5 and 9 balls.
By JokesOn
October 30, 2008 11:47 AM | Link to this
JokesOn, Do you play with all the balls on the table or nine balls like they show in the tournaments on TV?
We play 8-ball, but using BCA rules which are the same for 9-ball that you see on TV:
You must call ball and pocket but how it gets there does not matter.
Fouls are ball in hand - can put the cue ball anywhere on the table.
You must hit one of your balls first, then anything must hit a rail or be pocketed to be considered a good hit (not a foul).
Safeties must be called first and conform to the rule of a good hit above. It is always your opponents shot after a safety.
That is the just of it.
By JokesOn
October 30, 2008 11:54 AM | Link to this
Hope you had money on the 5 and 9 balls.
This is a national league, so I will get my $ at the end of season: I average $5-8k each year which pays for my pool nights and beers plus some extra (I rank in the second, sometimes first 25% of players in BCA). Strictly no gambling during league-play: you will be arrested and permanently kicked out of the league.
By Mara
October 30, 2008 12:08 PM | Link to this
Hye Archie, JokesOn. Nice to have you back, even if you’re only stopping by for a visit :^)
By Gandalf, the Grey
October 30, 2008 12:10 PM | Link to this
Eldest of 8th Graders, I prefer 9 ball, it’s a faster game, and remind me not to play against guys like you! I prefer play slightly drunk guys at the end of the night.
Sunshine, Even I have trouble comparing the goals of Obama and Hitler. What is simular is their use of propoganda. For good or evil, the Nazi style of propoganda is EXTEMELY EFFECTIVE. How else do you get folks to ignore the ovens right outside of town? You should expand that little mind of yours and see what is really going on. Is Obama as evil as Hitler? That remains to be seen. Is his propoganda machine simular to what the National Socialist’s used in the 30s? DAMN SKIPPY! THE JEWS ARE THE PROBLEMS! Watch what happens to Isreal?
By Gandalf, the Grey
October 30, 2008 12:14 PM | Link to this
Oh Eldest of 8th Graders, at least now we know why you spent so much time in grade school! You were perfecting your pool game! A noble sign of a misspent youth. I prefer 9 ball, it’s faster and easier to make a few bucks at a bar playing. remind me not to play you if we ever meet!
Funshine, Even I have trouble comparing the goals of Obama and Hitler. What is simular is their use of propoganda. For good or evil, the Nazi style of propoganda is EXTEMELY EFFECTIVE. How else do you get folks to ignore the ovens right outside of town? You should expand that little mind of yours and see what is really going on. Is Obama as evil as Hitler? That remains to be seen. Is his propoganda machine simular to what the National Socialist’s used in the 30s? DAMN SKIPPY! Watch what Obama does for Isreal, that’s the key!
By Gandalf, the Grey
October 30, 2008 12:17 PM | Link to this
I thought I had to rewrite, I guess it posted!
By Sunshine
October 30, 2008 12:23 PM | Link to this
How else do you get folks to ignore the ovens right outside of town? You should expand that little mind of yours and see what is really going on.
Have you ever seen those ovens, touched them, walked through the places where MILLIONS of humans were gassed to death? I have. I have been there. Don’t tell me about “my little mind” when you make sick references like this. I appreciate your gesture of sanity by saying “Even I have trouble comparing the goals of Obama and Hitler” but the reference is too obtuse to have any place here or anywhere else in the world. Stop this now. Even if you don’t like him or agree with him Mr. Obama is a member of our Congress and a man who has won the right to run for president by an American vote. Even Mr. McCain gives him that respect.
By Mara
October 30, 2008 12:25 PM | Link to this
For good or evil, the Nazi style of propoganda is EXTEMELY EFFECTIVE
If anybody’d know, it’d be a Republican. And wingnuts say liberals never learn…
By Gandalf, the Grey
October 30, 2008 12:39 PM | Link to this
Respect? For Nobama? You must be kidding! He’s the Father of Lies! I have been to a concentration camp and know the horror that exists there. I have also guarded mass graves while they were being investigated in Bosnia.
Obama was very Hitler-like in his speech last night. You need to go back and see how this guy got started.
By Gale
October 30, 2008 12:52 PM | Link to this
Do you really believe that Mr. Obama believes in a master race, wants world domination and believes that his country and he should be in charge of the entire world
No, that isn’t what I said. Don’t jump to conclusions because so many people are on extreme sides of this election. I said he has a similar style of staging his speeches. I can’t speak for Gandalf, but I would not be surprised if he noted the same thing. My comment was entirely about his presentation style. Your reaction is entirely why this is not a comment I make in public. Next you will be calling me a racist as well.
By Sunshine
October 30, 2008 1:00 PM | Link to this
Gale, I respect your opinion and that is why I asked you the question. It was only a question, I am not calling you names and don’t intend to. I just think in these last days sweeping generalities get made and/or a buzz word/phrase starts to be said over and over with out much thought to the meaning behind it. I would NEVER put you in the same category as Gandalf, I just was hoping you would clarify.
By Sunshine
October 30, 2008 1:08 PM | Link to this
On a lighter note:
Speaking in the western Ohio town of Defiance, McCain was delivering the normal “Joe the Plumber” section of his stump speech, talking about how Joe was able to ask about a question of Sen. Barack Obama that no one had been able to ask.
Then, the moment of anticipation.
“Joe’s with us today. Joe, where are you? Where is Joe?” McCain asked, looking around the audience for Wurzelbacher.
“Is Joe with us today? Joe, I thought you were here today.”
But when McCain acknowledged him in front of the crowd, Joe was no where to be seen.
McCain quickly figured a way to recover.
“Well, you’re all Joe the Plumbers!” McCain said, allowing the crowd to break the awkward silence. “So all of you stand up!”
Silly McCain Campaign, they just can’t find Joe!
By JokesOn
October 30, 2008 1:15 PM | Link to this
Hye Archie, JokesOn. Nice to have you back, even if you’re only stopping by for a visit :^)
Hey Mara, et al;)
I lurk most of the time for the obvious reasons. It is like a family gathering on this blog: a lot of people one would like to see, and a few that make you dread going because of the drama they insist on creating.
By Bit o' Trivia
October 30, 2008 1:20 PM | Link to this
Interesting difference:
Hitler was the original anti-smoking Nazi! A health fanatic, the mostly vegetarian dictator despised cigarettes, and offered gold watches to his staffers who’d quit. It is reported that many of them, upon learning of his suicide, immediately lit up.
In contrast, Obama has been a known smoker. As with alcoholics, a smoker’s urge is always there, even when he takes hold of it and refrains. Unlike our current (coke-snorting, multiple DUI, skip the flight physical, claims to not touch the stuff now) President, Obama might be prone to actually firing up a Marlboro here and when times get stressful. It helps calm the nerves and clear the head, after all. (A President needs a clear head… heh.) Is this a good thing? Not according to any doctor! But compared to the compulsive vices we’ve seen in recent administrations (such as hiding in Crawford getting looped trying not to think about NOLA’s anhilation, or indulging in a Monica for those really tense moments, or just flat-out denial), a smoke break on the patio doesn’t seem so bad!
Obama is also not commitment-phobic in the romantic arena like the marry-her-only-at-the-end Hitler. A genuine family man who makes friends among wide-ranging demographics, his speeches contain what appear to be well-considered reason, based of facts, tempered with the optimism of a man who is willing to share the benefit of his brains and knowledge with those of us somewhat less endowed. By contrast, every speech of Hitler’s contained anger and revulsion of some sort for somebody. And fear — let’s not forget fear. Therefore, I’m NOT seeing or feeling the Hitler/Obama comparison. Sounds more like wishful thinking by someone who wants our world to turn out badly. Wie Schade!
By Nikita
October 30, 2008 1:43 PM | Link to this
I’m replying now to some of the previous comments, but I have to admit that there are many I didn’t bother reading because they fall in the category of personal attacks. I’m voting for Obama, though I am an independent and I get plenty of mail from both campaigns based on my voting for both parties regularly.
I’m agnostic, so I really don’t care about anyone’s personal religion. I don’t like Obama’s promise to expand the faith-based initiative, but I really don’t like the religious pandering perpetrated by John McCain and the seeming inability to discern the difference between one’s personal beliefs and one’s role as a legislator that I see in Sarah Palin.
I have beliefs regarding abortion that are highly libertarian, so obviously I cannot vote for Palin-McCain. That ticket shows little regard for the autonomy of citizens. It also is delusional regarding the logistics of outlawing abortion, and dismissive of the implications for privacy rights. My position on the issue is simple, and the politician who supports it gets my vote: abortions should be legal, and we should do everything we can as a society to preclude the need for as many of them as possible.
I am an environmentalist, hunter, and outdoorswoman, which means that I worry about a lot of issues like gun rights and environmental education and conservation and farm subsidies. I can’t vote for a ticket with Palin on it — she’s horrible on conservation and disdainful regarding science. (Gun rights? Not happy with anyone. But not particularly unhappy with anyone.)
I am disturbed at how John McCain’s message and personality has changed over the last eight years. I don’t think he wants to win, I don’t think he controls his own campaign, and he comes across as dangerously meanspirited and erratic.
And finally, I am tired of being pandered to and lectured at by the McCain-Palin ticket regarding feminism, morality, and integrity. The hypocrisy is astounding. Yes, it’s good that a woman is on the ticket — but she is on the ticket for a variety of reasons, and few of them are related to her competency. Why are true female pioneers such as Kay Bailey Hutchinson and Olympia Snowe not on that ticket? Also, I love being told that feminism, which as a movement was huge in altering the landscape such that women like Sarah Palin and myself are free to succeed, has nothing to do with Palin’s success. As for morality and integrity, I am told over and over again that Republicans have a lock on it. However, I am told this by a guy who has not had a great personal record in addition to being involved in the Keating 5 scandal and a woman who was a pregnant bride and has five children, two of whom have been less than ideally supervised/parented. It’s tacky behavior, and I’m tired of being told that the other party is immoral and elitist when it’s representatives are demonstrably poorer and less morally challenged than the people alleging thus.
So…what should McCain’s end game be? Honestly, I don’t think he has one other than preparing his concession speech. Too many people have already voted. If he wants to win, he should perhaps start trying to exclude votes, but I doubt he would otherwise be able to sway the overall makeup of the vote even if he had a photo of Obama and Bin Laden clubbing baby seals.
By Gale
October 30, 2008 1:48 PM | Link to this
For just a little more clarity… I was not comparing Obama to Hitler, except in his penchant for staging speeches for large crowds in large places. Clearly the content of the speeches was different, clearly the speeches themselves were different. My point was the staging to get many people where they would look around and see how many people agree with what he is saying. Since so many people agree… The idea is to make people believers, whether the message is true or not. The staging is very similar.
By Mara
October 30, 2008 1:49 PM | Link to this
Gale - …a penchant for speaking before huge assemblies of people who all cheer the same things so they can look around and see that the ‘world’ agrees with them.
no offense meant, but do you really believe that the tens of thousands of people who’ve gone to Obama rallies, stood in the heat, the wet, and the cold for hours on end, crowded together cheek-to-jowl, are cheering his words simply “so they can look around and see that the world agrees with them”? Wouldn’t it be more likely that they actually find his vision for America inspiring? Or that they find in his words some hope for the future, for a return to sober, responsible governance? Do you really have that low of an opinion of us?
I said he has a similar style of staging his speeches
how many ways are there to give a speech to a hundred million people? He doesn’t stand up on some balcony to give his speeches (like the Pope does). He stands on a stage, just like John McCain does. Or at floor level, like McCain. Or up on the bed of a pick-up truck if he has to…just like John McCain and every other stumping politician in America.
If you want to know the REAL master of political staging, just take a look at Bush’s media team (Scott Sforza, Bob Deservi, and Greg Jenkins). Whether it means leasing three barges worth of giant Musco lights to illuminate Lady Liberty, spending $250,000 on a CentCom “set”, insisting that the television camera’s shoot from the left side of the stage so that Bush’s profile would meld into the carvings on Mt Rushmore, the infamous “Mission Accomplished” banner, or any of the hundred of unique “message of the day” backdrops…the Republicans have “staged” every speech their party leader has made in the last eight years.
If you think that Obama putting a few Greek columns on stage for the big finale of their convention is anywhere comparable in scope….I beg to disagree.
By Mara
October 30, 2008 1:56 PM | Link to this
oops. I meant “how many ways are there to give a speech to a hundred THOUSAND people” not a hundred million. Ooops.
By Gale
October 30, 2008 2:08 PM | Link to this
but do you really believe that the tens of thousands of people who’ve gone to Obama rallies, stood in the heat, the wet, and the cold for hours on end, crowded together cheek-to-jowl, are cheering his words simply “so they can look around and see that the world agrees with them”?
Still missing my point. The attendees would not be there “so they can look around and see that the world agrees with them” The attendees, maybe not you, were there because lots of other people were there. They do the same thing for sports and concerts. There is no excitement of that level in a parking lot or a high school gym, though apparently Palin has generated some heat there. The man is an inspiring speaker. No argument. But pack an arena? TV -last night- was another thing entirely and not in the same category.
The Bush staging you mention is completely on target. Successful politicians do learn how to stage to help them get a message across. It is very like the slanting of a news story.
By Bit o' Trivia
October 30, 2008 2:23 PM | Link to this
So, why not compare Obama to Billy Graham instead? He used to fill stadiums. People came forward and repented! It was positively electric.
Personally, I am not swept away in the passionate oration of Sen. Obama nearly to the degree than an old speech of Dr. King or President Kennedy will move me, though some people appear to be. The common sense of it all seems to play a larger role for more people, in my opinion. From the big ideas (“Change! Hope!”) to the smaller, specific, nuts & bolts details of how solutions can be achieved, I think Obama is resonating what people want to hear now in these troubling times. To that extent, yes, the phenomenon is not entirely unlike Hitler’s affirmation of the German people’s worth in their downtrodden times. But beyond that, I see only the process by which one man comes to lead many, with no particular likeness to the moustached little hate freak who murdered millions.
By Gale
October 30, 2008 2:27 PM | Link to this
Oh, and I meant to refer to the Greek columns point. I was not refering to that kind of staging, nor the illumination of Liberty type of staging.
By Mara
October 30, 2008 2:33 PM | Link to this
Gale, I understand what you’re trying to say. And I respectfully disagree. While I can only speak to my own motivations, I assure you that I have never gone to a concert, a sports event, or a political rally because I thought there’d be a lot of people there. On the contrary, I’ve sometimes skipped events because I didn’t want to deal with the crowds.
It is my opinion that Obama generates such crowds not for his stagecraft, but because we are looking for inspiration, for thoughtfulness, and maybe for some leadership. But we’ve been fooled before, so we need to see this person with our own eyes.
By Bolin Rolin
October 30, 2008 2:34 PM | Link to this
Hey folks sorry to jump in on Gale’s side, as my views are shunned around here BUT! Hitler inspired Germany! He was a GREAT politician, horrible monster of a man, but a speechmaker like no one before or sense. The symbols and slogans are brilliant in the OBAMA campaign just like Hitler’s. GERMANY chose this man freely, not because they wanted to kill Jews, but because he gave them HOPE and CHANGE! Sound familiar? Sorry Gale, but these people are (DUM BASSi) to not understand the difference between stating “OBAMA IS JUST LIKE HITLER” and “OBAMA’s rhetoric and propaganda is staged in a manner reminiscent of Hitler’s rallies in the 30’s”
By Sunshine
October 30, 2008 2:37 PM | Link to this
Gale I am sure it feels like we are picking on you but I am really not trying to, I just wanted to make a counter point to your argument.
There is no excitement of that level in a parking lot or a high school gym, I don’t entirely agree with this. Four years ago I was at a small house party set up by the Kerry Campaign to get together people in the community to watch the Democratic Nomination. I couldn’t tell you now what Kerry said that night, but the hair all over my arms and neck stood up as a nervous, but inspirational Senator Obama spoke. I went home thinking this guy gets it. Yes it was just a speech. But it was moving. That same guy, a little older, a lot less nervous, and with a better production crew was on TV last night. It was just me and my husband in our living room. We felt excited! I wrote in the Baby book about how our country is probably going to see our first African American president. It is the American Dream, it is an American story. Mr. Obama is not the son of a President or the Son of Military Royalty. He worked hard, went to school and worked for his community and his country. I am sorry you missed the program/ad/infomercial (how ever you want to characterize it). It was inspiring. And maybe he won’t make all his promises come true and maybe he will be just a sleazy politician in the end, but the people going to those stadiums, to those packed rallies that give away every available ticket in twenty minuets are there because he inspires them. He inspires people the world over, that shouldn’t be a bad thing. He has run a VERY positive campaign and as many reporters have tried to bait him into saying something negative about Sarah Palin or Mr. McCain he hasn’t bit.
By Gale
October 30, 2008 2:40 PM | Link to this
Not being religious, I never heard Billy Graham speak and would have turned the channel if I had happened onto it. Same with Dr. King. I wasn’t interested in the message. Before you decide I was interested in Hitler’s message, let me point out that I am not fluent in German. In that case, it was the image I noticed, the reaction of the audience. But your point is well taken and I am sure a similar comparison, perhaps a more apt comparison could be made.
By Archie
October 30, 2008 2:41 PM | Link to this
I got 3 TRs last night (table runs - as in shooting pool for the rest of you). Dang good night of shooting. That’s good JokesOn. It’s also good about the no-gambling rule. Maybe one day I will get back into a league but I have to really get used to ball in hand in an 8 ball game. I love 8-ball and it’s what people play in bars and it’s where I would see all kinds of behavior.
Thank you Mara and I see you’re still on a tear of writing good commentary. As for Gale, get over it! Hillary lost and I voted for her but she lost! This country needs change, I mean with the numbers of people struggling with mortgages,jobs,healthcare, this is not the time for petty attitudes and prejudices although sometimes I think prejudice trumps everything with some people. The level of greed that was allowed go unchecked the last 8 years has been incredible, I mean how can the financial experts mismanage money and get bailed out but I can’t get anybody to pay my credit cards off. Maybe if Obama gets in office we can get rid of these gouging bank fees and although most colleges are seen as liberal they need to get cleaned up too as far as this skyrocketing tuition. We should have affordable health insurance in this country like it was 20 years ago and some things risen exponetially faster than inflation and yet some folk want to just stay the course,well I hope not. I don’t post too much because like JokesOn says the blog seems silly at times but anyway Mara is still the queen of good posting.
By Bit o' Trivia
October 30, 2008 2:46 PM | Link to this
And how would the mesmorizing-speech, effective-propaganda examples differ, then, from Ronald Reagan’s overwhelming victory in 1980? Would you say the “great communicator” was elected solely on the basis of the bungled (though precisely-to-plan success of the since-pardoned conspirators) hostage crisis? Or did Reagan win the hearts of Americans because he had some great writers and planners, and gave a good stump speech? That men become national leaders, by birth, coup, or circumstance, has been ongoing since the formation of nations on our planet. Support is garnered though speeches and slogans.
Can you name something that is uniquely shared by only Obama and Hilter, or are you just inspired by reasons of your own to make that particular comparison?
By Mara
October 30, 2008 2:58 PM | Link to this
awwww, shucks! (blushing) Thank you, Archie!
and Gale, let me second Sunshines “I am sure it feels like we are picking on you but I am really not trying to” comment. I, for one, am very glad you’re here and enjoy reading your posts. If it weren’t for you and USinUK, I probably wouldn’t beven other coming here anymore.
By JokesOn
October 30, 2008 2:58 PM | Link to this
*“OBAMA’s rhetoric and propaganda is staged in a manner reminiscent of Hitler’s rallies in the 30’s” *
No offense meant: I guess I just do not see the reason for making what I would think of as obvious and moreover, pointless, observation. That same comparison can be applied to The Beatles, Abe Lincoln, and anyone else that has thousands of fans and is an orator.
Now, comparing Hitler and Jim Morrison is a different beast all-together. They both practiced and perfected the art of crowd manipulation. I have not seen crowd manipulation used anywhere in Obama’s events and therefore do not really get what Gale is trying to discuss/illustrate.
By Gale
October 30, 2008 2:58 PM | Link to this
Ah, respectful disagreement, Mara, I can deal with that.
And Sunshine, no, I don’t feel picked on. I just want to be sure we are disagreeing about the same point. Words can be so fickle that way. I remember that first national speech. I was watching too and I said then we would be hearing from Obama again soon. He is an inspiring speaker. Quite true. I expect more from a president. I want to inspect a voting record and I want to see a track record for what the person believes in. The candidate will tell us what he thinks will get our vote. His record will tell us what his behaviour is. I trust the actions before the words.
By Gandalf, the Grey
October 30, 2008 3:00 PM | Link to this
Bilbo STFU! YOU DAMN DWARVES STFU!
By Gandalf, the Grey
October 30, 2008 3:03 PM | Link to this
Bit o’ Trivia They both suck donkey balls?
By Gandalf, the Grey
October 30, 2008 3:07 PM | Link to this
Oh the hell with it! OBAMA is the AntiChrist and many thought that Hitler was too! See! They are the same! Hitler tried to destroy the Jews and Obama will let Isreal disappear from the face of the Earth. SO in reality, Obama is fullfilling Hitler’s dream, not intentionally, but in effect.
By Gandalf, the Grey
October 30, 2008 3:10 PM | Link to this
Oh the hell with it! OBAMA is the AntiChrist and many thought that Hitler was too! See! They are the same! Hitler tried to destroy the Jews and Obama will let Isreal disappear from the face of the Earth. SO in reality, Obama is fullfilling Hitler’s dream, not intentionally, but in effect.
By JokesOn
October 30, 2008 3:12 PM | Link to this
Maybe one day I will get back into a league but I have to really get used to ball in hand in an 8 ball game.
Yes. Ball in hand is quite the punishment for a bad hit and makes safties an important part of the game. Like they say here; Do not run em’ out unless you can run them ALL out. Otherwise, it provides a lot of places to snooker the cue ball in a safty shot.
I love 8-ball and it’s what people play in bars and it’s where I would see all kinds of behavior.
Yep. 9-ball is fun if you are shooting someone that is your equal, but still needs to be “race to 7+ games” since one person can carry the whole game until the 9-ball only to lose. Not a game to bet on!
The table last night (they are normally maintained and have professional felt - talk about masse!) had blood stains all over it from a bar fight last weekend. That is the only part I dislike: the po-dunk bars and sketchy people/behaviors. It makes me want to open a coffee shop/pool hall.
By Bit o' Trivia
October 30, 2008 3:16 PM | Link to this
I trust the actions before the words.
Wise, indeed! Would that we all had such knowledge before making any decision. But like it or not, we have only two legitimate choices for President this year. And assurances notwithstanding, our votes may or may not count at all. In the end, we’ll get what we get and we’ll be stuck with it.
The question then remains, how will we deal? Will we (as I did in 2000) accept the disappointment and try to hope for the best, that our fears are exaggerated, that the new guy really wants to do what’s best, and that we’ll chug right along through the years more or less unscathed until it’s time to choose again? (Who knew Dubya would exceed our worst expectations?)
Will we wait and see what the new guy can do and give him a chance to do it, or will we sabotage every day with calculated disdain and prophetic omen? Though not an overly optimistic person myself, I have to say, “Hey, he may have grappled his way to power in ways that make us uncomfortable, but he went for it and GOT it, so now let’s see if he’ll do the job justice.” Despite the staggering disappointments and betrayals of our current Chimpy in Chief, I have to start fresh again next year with some measure of (if not hope) “at least wait and see.”
By Sunshine
October 30, 2008 3:18 PM | Link to this
Gale, I know words are fickle and it is hard here because there is no tone or inflection, and no face! But it just seems so overtly critical or negative to compare anyone to Hitler. Its just not nice :-) I think one thing to remember is a President is a Diplomat. First and foremost he has to be our mouth piece to the world, and to congress, and to the general population of America when something goes wrong. So I think that speaking well, thinking on your feet, the ability to string cohesive ideas and explain/understand those ideas is a HUGE job requirement. Not the only one but a big one. You have to admit that Mr. Obama is a smart man. The job of president is an enormous responsibility no mater who is elected and the learning curve I am sure is like no other job on the planet. But I would rather someone who knows (and has taught) the constitution and has proven that at least he can present a clear platform and agenda, than someone who appears erratic and has had no other message than “That guy is bad, Vote for me instead!”. Yes maybe he doesn’t have as much experience, but he is sharp, verbal skills are a sign of intelligence. We have been sorely lacking that for the last eight years!
By Gale
October 30, 2008 3:33 PM | Link to this
Thanks Mara, I enjoy reading your posts too. You are always very informative.
Trivia, Can you name something that is uniquely shared by only Obama and Hilter, or are you just inspired by reasons of your own to make that particular comparison? The image of the crowds is the biggest comparison I can make. As I just agreed, there are other apt comparisons that are outside my person experience, although my experience of Kings and Hitler’s speeches are only from TV. It is apparent that both Obama and Hitler elicite emotional responses. Since Obama will likely be the next president, I hope the response to Obama will always be positive. History is yet to be written. Re: Reagan, I always felt he could not speak coherently without a script. He had a habit of not taking questions from the press, as I remember.
JokesOn, Beatles crowd? I suppose I should have made that extension. I wasn’t think of anything quite that frantic. I think the comment about Billy Graham and Dr. King were more on target. I think Billy Graham may have intended to manipulate the audience. I won’t say that about Dr. King. I don’t get that feeling from his speeches.
By JokesOn
October 30, 2008 3:39 PM | Link to this
I think one thing to remember is a President is a Diplomat. First and foremost he has to be our mouth piece to the world, and to congress, and to the general population of America when something goes wrong. So I think that speaking well, thinking on your feet, the ability to string cohesive ideas and explain/understand those ideas is a HUGE job requirement. Not the only one but a big one.
I had a discussion regarding that exact point: Which is more important (if either), sounding like you know what you are talking about or knowing what you are talking about yet verbalizing it badly. I played devils advocate and was pushing the point that the majority of a presidents job is being a figure head. He has experts to tease out the details in any situation and inform him was a complement to the argument. Where-as, if a president knows all the correct info but sounds stupid as heck, that info is often ignored/suspect.
Ultimately, I do think looking and sounding good (both part of being metered and considering all perspectives) are extremely important facets of the job and eke slightly ahead of “at hand knowledge.” 90% of it is a PR job that extends beyond our borders (hence why it is good that people worldwide like the president).
By Gale
October 30, 2008 3:41 PM | Link to this
Trivia, indeed, we hope for the best. It is not profitable to point and criticise. I really wish the congress would stop that and get on with the peoples’ business.
Sunshine, good post 3:18. You believe it. I am just hoping it will work out ok.
By Sunshine
October 30, 2008 3:53 PM | Link to this
JokesOn-hence why it is good that people worldwide like the president—Hence all this talk about “Confidence” effecting the market. It effects SO MANY things. Do we look like we put someone smart and confident in the White House as our leader, or did we elect Joe Shmoe? Well, we tried Joe Shome for the last eight years, he p** people off (the entire middle east among other parts of the world) Alienated our allies (Great Britain, Australia, most of Europe ect.) and just creeped out other world leaders (remember the whole icky back rub thing with the Female German Chancellor?) It reflects on the nation as a whole who we elect. And we have had an embarrassing run of it lately!
And the whole argument of is it better to have a dumb talking head that can repeat things well or a bookworm that can’t make it sound good, I think there has to be a measure of both in this job (which I think is your argument JokesOn) He has be be smart as a whip and sell it. I think you have that in Mr. Obama.
By Gale
October 30, 2008 3:54 PM | Link to this
JokesOn 3:39. Good point. Your post makes me more hopeful. Even if Obama makes more of a mess of the economy, he may help restore our world position and favor.
I heard a commentary yesterday comparing Hoover and Rosevelt. Hoover was an engineer by training and completely knew the facts. Rosevelt had the charisma. He knew the facts, but more, he knew how to present them.
By areyastupid?
October 30, 2008 3:54 PM | Link to this
Obama spent 10,000,000.00 on an “infomercial”, 2,000,000.00 on his “victory celebration” and still all the liberal talking heads can talk about is the 150,000.00 wardrobe issue? I’ve never been this upset about an election before. I’ll see you all in the soup lines!
By areyastupid?
October 30, 2008 3:57 PM | Link to this
People, don’t get so upset by “Tamika’s” comments. Nobody can really be that stupid so it’s got to be somebody commenting to see how much of a rise they can get out of people.
By Bruno
October 30, 2008 4:05 PM | Link to this
Obama would again limit any increases in capital-gains rates, as well as taxes on dividends, to households making over $250,000 or individuals bringing in more than $200,000. For those folks, he proposes increasing the maximum rate to somewhere between 20% and 25%.
if you’re interested, BusinessWeek did a great side-by-side comparison of the 2 candidates, with taxes being the first issue they review. http:// images. businessweek. com/ss/08/10/1027candidatespositions/index.htm (copy, paste, delete extra spaces) seriously - everytime you misquote the Obama plan, you do yourself a disservice.
USinUK—I won’t insult you the way you insulted me, but the FACT is that Obama has presented an ever-changing tax plan since he started his campaign nearly two years ago. I’ve seen video clips of both him and Biden quoting varying “threshholds” for those whose taxes would go up and for those whose would go down. FYI, I tried to go to the link you provided, but all I got was a “broken link” message.
Ultimately, I don’t put much faith in hypothetical tax projections anyway as I explained to Sunshine last week when she provided a link. As TOJ pointed out a few weeks ago, Clinton went into office promising a tax cut but, with the help of a Democratic controlled Congress, delivered our biggest tax increase in history.
As per the capital gains tax increase, Obama has been much less than forthcoming regarding his plans. If you don’t believe me, just google in “Obama and capital gains tax”. I’ve seen clips of him offering several different proposals.
Maybe all of you trust Obama and the Democratically controlled Congress, but I don’t.
By JokesOn
October 30, 2008 4:10 PM | Link to this
Obama spent 10,000,000.00 on an “infomercial”, 2,000,000.00 on his “victory celebration” and still all the liberal talking heads can talk about is the 150,000.00 wardrobe issue? I’ve never been this upset about an election before. I’ll see you all in the soup lines!
Hmmm. Personal wardrobe using General Public Funds versus a televised campain spot using individualy donated $$? There is a difference.
People, don’t get so upset by “Tamika’s” comments. Nobody can really be that stupid so it’s got to be somebody commenting to see how much of a rise they can get out of people.
If you have not noticed only one person made that mistake and fell for the Tamika post hook-line-and-sinker.
By JokesOn
October 30, 2008 4:10 PM | Link to this
Obama spent 10,000,000.00 on an “infomercial”, 2,000,000.00 on his “victory celebration” and still all the liberal talking heads can talk about is the 150,000.00 wardrobe issue? I’ve never been this upset about an election before. I’ll see you all in the soup lines!
Hmmm. Personal wardrobe using General Public Funds versus a televised campaign spot using individually donated $$? There is a difference.
People, don’t get so upset by “Tamika’s” comments. Nobody can really be that stupid so it’s got to be somebody commenting to see how much of a rise they can get out of people.
If you have not noticed only one person made that mistake and fell for the Tamika post hook-line-and-sinker.
By Sunshine
October 30, 2008 4:18 PM | Link to this
Bruno, with all due respect if you don’t believe the campaign promises (which I understand) what do you base your vote on? I know that all politicians lie (on BOTH sides of the aisle) but if you don’t believe anything they say what DOES motivate your vote?
By Gandalf, the Grey
October 30, 2008 4:29 PM | Link to this
Republicans are good, Democrats are bad. It’s really just that simple!
By Sunshine
October 30, 2008 4:49 PM | Link to this
Republicans are good, Democrats are bad. It’s really just that simple!—Ahhhh, if only the world were that simple. Do you also think white people good, all other colors bad?
By JokesOn
October 30, 2008 4:55 PM | Link to this
Do you also think white people good, all other colors bad?
Do we really want to think less of him? He digs his own holes fine all by himself.
By fedup
October 30, 2008 4:59 PM | Link to this
I read this morning that Obama will “bring this country together and end all of this divisiveness”. Unfortunately there are those of us who are offended by him calling his own grandparents “old white folks”, and listening to sermons every sunday that preach anti american, anti white hatred.
As for the economy, until the Democrats took over 2 years ago and the media started their “sky is falling” rhetoric, the economy was good. Everyone seems to think when we stop spending 10 billion a month in Iraq all will be wonderful. When are we going to wake up and quit spending 6 to 7 billion a month on services for illegals that have never paid in?
By Gene Lyons
October 30, 2008 6:00 PM | Link to this
Ever since the infamous Sixties, Republicans have portrayed themselves as hard-headed realists and Democrats as sentimental idealists; the Daddy party vs. the Mommy party, all that. Never mind that their idea of a manly avatar is George W. Bush. Conservative pundits, talk radio personalities, rightwing bloggers and faculty lounge lizards alike seemingly get a testosterone boost out of contrasting their tough-minded worldliness to feckless liberal schemes for the salvation of mankind. Today’s reality is almost precisely the opposite. Contemporary Republicanism has sacrificed the reasoned self-interest of the American people to abstract ideology at every turn. It’s bitterly amusing watching GOP culture heroes forced to confront their failures as the party’s day of reckoning approaches.
By Gandalf, the Grey
October 31, 2008 8:29 AM | Link to this
SEE WHAT YOU DID! I GOT FLUSTERED AND HIT SEND BY MISTAKE! I generally judge someone not by the color of his (or her) skin, but by the depth of his (or her) character! I spent 20 years working with a vary diverse group of young men, you would know this group as the US ARMY INFANTRY! Racist scum are not tolerated in that society. Are you even hinting that I don’t support the great one because he is half black? I will state facts like “the great majority of black men and woman are voting for OBAMA”. That isn’t racist or unPC, just facts. Have you seen how successful Socialism is in other parts of the world? I have. Now like that eldest of 8th graders states, I do not need the help of some hormonal wench with a non-person human inside her baiting me, (sincerly I really do hope your medical condition turns into a healthy person someday). Please FUNSHINE STFU you (DUM BASS!!!!)
By Gandalf, the Grey
October 31, 2008 8:29 AM | Link to this
SEE WHAT YOU DID! I GOT FLUSTERED AND HIT SEND BY MISTAKE! I generally judge someone not by the color of his (or her) skin, but by the depth of his (or her) character! I spent 20 years working with a vary diverse group of young men, you would know this group as the US ARMY INFANTRY! Racist scum are not tolerated in that society. Are you even hinting that I don’t support the great one because he is half black? I will state facts like “the great majority of black men and woman are voting for OBAMA”. That isn’t racist or unPC, just facts. Have you seen how successful Socialism is in other parts of the world? I have. Now like that eldest of 8th graders states, I do not need the help of some hormonal wench with a non-person human inside her baiting me, (sincerly I really do hope your medical condition turns into a healthy person someday). Please FUNSHINE STFU you (DUM BASS!!!!)
By Gandalf, the Grey
October 31, 2008 8:56 AM | Link to this
Gene, please read any insult I have rendered in the last week, and consider it addressed to you personally! I am feeling lazy today. Come Tuesday you Dummies will see! Polls are in error! America wants nothing to do with Socialists! YEAH MCCAIN PALIN! BOO OBAMAISTAN! Or Obamislam? I found a new word! YEAH GANDALF!
By Gandalf, the Grey
October 31, 2008 9:14 AM | Link to this
Hey everyone, guess what I am going as for Halloween? what are you dressing up as?
By JokesOn
October 31, 2008 9:14 AM | Link to this
GTG,
The military you speak of is a form of Socialism. You know that, right?
Government owned and operated using tax dollars (as are schools, colleges, highways, community centers, etc).
By Gandalf, the Grey
October 31, 2008 9:27 AM | Link to this
My Brother lives in Squalor in Africa, But I am going to be the president.
My aunt is just makin’ by, the uncle I wrote about and made millions’ he’s lost to me, We are liberals, don’t like to give to charity…like Joe Biden. Millions made, hundreds to the poor, not even my own family gets my money. My kids don’t get birthday or christmas gifts, cuz we are muslims, secret closet muslims! Oh yea, oh yea….
By Gandalf, the Grey
October 31, 2008 9:27 AM | Link to this
My Brother lives in Squalor in Africa, But I am going to be the president.
My aunt is just makin’ by, the uncle I wrote about and made millions’ he’s lost to me, We are liberals, don’t like to give to charity…like Joe Biden. Millions made, hundreds to the poor, not even my own family gets my money. My kids don’t get birthday or christmas gifts, cuz we are muslims, secret closet muslims! Oh yea, oh yea….
By Gandalf, the Grey
October 31, 2008 9:42 AM | Link to this
Eldest of 8th graders, 4 legs good, 2 legs bad? It’s the good form though! The military get’s to blow stuff up and kill people. are you advocating that the rest of society be given these freedoms? Are schools, colleges and community centers guaranteed by the constitution? Are you suggesting that Goverment run schools are better than private schools?
By Sunshine
October 31, 2008 9:48 AM | Link to this
Oh, Ok now I see the light, thanks for showing me how you really feel GTG:
Men Good, Woman bad! Got it!
By JokesOn
October 31, 2008 9:49 AM | Link to this
Are you suggesting that Goverment run schools are better than private schools?
You suggesting that we privatize our military?!?! Crazy!
Are schools, colleges and community centers guaranteed by the constitution? Schools are and Community Centers are Opted and paid for with your tax dollars - especially those senior centers (geriatric brothels really…).
By Gandalf, the Grey
October 31, 2008 10:15 AM | Link to this
Geriatric Middle schooler! Privatize schools not armies! Are you nuts?
PROVIDE FOR HE COMMON DEFENSE is spelled out in that piece of paper we hold sacred. SO NO PRIVATE ARMIES! Just great and powerful ones. Our military should make the rest of the world tremble in fear and awe!
Sunshine, my darlin! You are confused again! Men good, regardless of color, woman good, regardless of color. Just because your a (DUM A*!!!) doesn’t mean you aren’t good! Silly breeder!
Islamofacist’s, I will even go as far to say Facist of any ilk, not good, socialist, not good! Tyrants, not good! Terrorist, BAD!
SO Sunshine, even though I often (always?) think your ideas are wrong, I will defend to the death your right to hold and profess these believes. But by the same token, I have the God given right to call a spade a spade, or a (dum BASS) a (Dum bass), as it may be.
By Gandalf, the Grey
October 31, 2008 10:15 AM | Link to this
Geriatric Middle schooler! Privatize schools not armies! Are you nuts?
PROVIDE FOR HE COMMON DEFENSE is spelled out in that piece of paper we hold sacred. SO NO PRIVATE ARMIES! Just great and powerful ones. Our military should make the rest of the world tremble in fear and awe!
Sunshine, my darlin! You are confused again! Men good, regardless of color, woman good, regardless of color. Just because your a (DUM A*!!!) doesn’t mean you aren’t good! Silly breeder!
Islamofacist’s, I will even go as far to say Facist of any ilk, not good, socialist, not good! Tyrants, not good! Terrorist, BAD!
SO Sunshine, even though I often (always?) think your ideas are wrong, I will defend to the death your right to hold and profess these believes. But by the same token, I have the God given right to call a spade a spade, or a (dum BASS) a (Dum bass), as it may be.
By JokesOn
October 31, 2008 10:38 AM | Link to this
Geriatric Middle schooler! Privatize schools not armies! Are you nuts?
That was your analogy, not mine.
Why in heck would you want to privatize the military! Have you not followed how badly “Blackwater” (or whatever it is named) is doing and is bankrupting us?!?!
By Gandalf, the Grey
October 31, 2008 10:50 AM | Link to this
Army should be goverment controlled and report directly to the CiC (President), not private. Sorry if you somehow read that I believe in a privatitized army somewhere in there. Schools should be private.
By JokesOn
October 31, 2008 11:01 AM | Link to this
Schools should be private.
And who pays the tuition?
By Gandalf, the Grey
October 31, 2008 11:30 AM | Link to this
Hal Lindsey wrote in an essay on WorldNetDaily that Barack Obama was the antichrist, “Obama is correct in saying that the world is ready for someone like him — a messiah-like figure, charismatic and glib … The Bible calls that leader the Antichrist. And it seems apparent that the world is now ready to make his acquaintance.”
By Gandalf, the Grey
October 31, 2008 11:30 AM | Link to this
Hal Lindsey wrote in an essay on WorldNetDaily that Barack Obama was the antichrist, “Obama is correct in saying that the world is ready for someone like him — a messiah-like figure, charismatic and glib … The Bible calls that leader the Antichrist. And it seems apparent that the world is now ready to make his acquaintance.”
By Gandalf, the Grey
October 31, 2008 11:30 AM | Link to this
PARENTS!
By JokesOn
October 31, 2008 11:39 AM | Link to this
PARENTS!
That is just stupid.
By Gandalf, the Grey
October 31, 2008 11:59 AM | Link to this
CHAPEL HILL, N.C. (AP) - Shawn Turschak of Chapel Hill was tired of someone stealing McCain-Palin campaign signs from his yard. Turschak, with a degree in electrical engineering, hooked up a third sign to a power source for an electric pet fence Monday and also put up a surveillance camera. The News & Observer of Raleigh reported that a 9-year-old boy with an Obama-Biden sign grabbed the McCain-Palin sign and got a jolt on Tuesday.
The boy’s father, Andrew Noble, upset that his son had been shocked, showed up at Turschak’s door. Soon an Orange County sheriff’s deputy also showed up at the Turschak’s home.
Noble said his son just wanted to see how the sign was put together. Turschak said the boy intended to swap out the signs.
Sheriff Lindy Pendergrass said he doesn’t plan to file charges.
By Gandalf, the Grey
October 31, 2008 12:00 PM | Link to this
ELDEST 8th GRADER… who do you think pays for private school now? DUM BASS!
By JokesOn
October 31, 2008 1:19 PM | Link to this
ELDEST 8th GRADER… who do you think pays for private school now?
Ummm….all of us chip in so that everyone can get educated. So, you are ok with the least of us not getting an education. Got it. You know that is a fascists notion, no?