AJC.com > Opinion > Woman to Woman > Archives > 2008 > October > 17 > Entry
Are parents who don’t let their kids participate in Halloween misguided?
Andrea Cornell Sarvady, a left-leaning columnist, writes the commentary this week and Shaunti Feldhahn, a right-leaning columnist, responds.
Commentary
Halloween has always been a favorite holiday of young children; it’s creative, adventurous and filled with exciting yet innocent fun. So when I learned that a sizable group of my fellow parents viewed it as the “devil’s holiday,” I set out to find out why. Unfortunately, the more I learned, the more confused I became.
A major argument against Halloween stems from its pagan origins. Yet there simply is no separating many holidays from such roots. Christmas trees dragged into a living room and decorated with lights are unquestionably a reenactment of a pagan offering to the gods that bring warmth and spring’s bounty. Even Easter probably got its name from Eastre, the Teutonic goddess of spring and fertility, and Halloween, or Samhain, as the holiday was originally called, was an attempt to keep bad spirits from returning and damaging crops. If anything, Halloween began as an anti-devil crusade, a way to keep a malevolent creature at bay before the long, hard winter closed in.
Another argument repeated on many conservative blogs and articles is that scary costumes and other ghoulish images will create nightmares and are the opposite of God’s will. Fine. Yet then how can some communities justify the creation of seasonal “hell houses”, filled with macabre images of women screaming over botched abortions and gay people languishing in the flames of eternal damnation? Is terrifying young people like this fine if it suits your purpose?
Now I understand that nobody looks at a child tearing down the dark street in a Spider-Man or fairy costume in search of chocolate as anything but adorable. Yet some folks see a slippery slope between permitting that harmless activity and devil-worshipping behavior down the line. A friend’s daughter was once told by a pal down the street, “If you dress up for Halloween, it means you don’t love Jesus.” I struggle to see the connection here.
Parenting is a decision-making landmine, and I fully support the choice of these parents to do what’s best for their family and to uphold their faith. It’s just that when I picture a night of raucous, carefree fun, of shiny costumes, too much candy and staying up past bedtime, I can’t help but wonder: Where’s the real harm?
Rebuttal
One of the biggest misconceptions about Halloween is that it is “nothing but innocent fun.” Now, children getting excited about trick-or-treating is innocent and fun, and a blast - which is why my husband and I allow our children to participate. But we are also very aware of a dark side to the holiday that is anything but innocent, and are very careful about steering clear of it. For us that includes no scary costumes and no haunted houses . But many parents prefer to avoid Halloween altogether.
Parents with Judeo-Christian beliefs have struggled with Halloween for centuries. Two thousand years ago, Nov. 1 was the Celtic new year, the beginning of winter, the time of death. The Celts believed that the night before was the most supernatural moment of the year, when evil spirits walked abroad. So they celebrated the festival of Samhain with animal sacrifices, dressing up like evil spirits to ward off the real ones. As time went on, these occultic beliefs became mixed with the spreading Roman culture, so the early church began to try, like many Jewish and Christian parents today, to change the holiday.
In the 800s, Pope Gregory IV designated Nov. 1 All Saints Day, to commemorate Christian legends of the faith, and the night before as All Saints Eve (translated as All Hallows Eve). Parties, bonfires and costumes became the norm of this more wholesome celebration.
But many continued to celebrate Halloween for dark purposes. Today, that has translated directly into very real, very evil Oct. 31 witchcraft and Satanic ceremonies, which I have heard something about from two friends who were raised by Satanist parents. As Steve Russo, author of “Halloween: What’s a Christian to Do?,” described in an interview: “There is a danger to being desensitized to evil. And Halloween is one of the eight high holy days for Satan worshippers and those that practice Wicca. So that means that there are all kind of things that go on unbeknownst to the average person. I am not anti-Halloween or pro-Halloween, but I do want to provide answers for parents.”
I appreciate parents who, like the early church, have consciously tried to change the tenor of the Halloween holiday. But I also respect those who feel it is safer to avoid it altogether.
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By Gale
October 17, 2008 9:43 AM | Link to this
Stop Shaunti. I accepted your position until you linked Satan worship and Wicca. No way! People who will not allow their children to participate in what their children probably see as a fun activity that their friends are doing are … ah, I have no diplomatic way to say it, mean-spirited. At least Shaunti lets her children participate.
By USinUK
October 17, 2008 10:04 AM | Link to this
Shaunti -
Today, that has translated directly into very real, very evil Oct. 31 witchcraft and Satanic ceremonies, which I have heard something about from two friends who were raised by Satanist parents.
you know, there are some people who use dinner parties to practice partner swapping, so does that taint all dinner parties?
there are some people who use New Year’s Eve to practice debauchery and drinking (NO! say it isn’t so!!), so does that taint all NYE celebrations?
criminey, not letting children participate in what is a fun rite of childhood just because of what a small number of people do - and which doesn’t involve the children in question - is not just silly, it’s downright asinine.
let your kids use their imagination to dress up in fun costumes. let them go trick-or-treating. let them scare each other with ghost stories and fake fangs. to deprive them of that (and all in the name of God and religiosity) is to deprive them of some of the most fun parts of childhood.
By Gale
October 17, 2008 10:26 AM | Link to this
I decided I should amend my post. I do not mean that all activities a child’s friends consider fun should be acceptable. But gee, Halloween has beee celebrated by children for generations and produce fond -shared- memories for most people. If a parent cannot condone the night in the neighborhood, and I have suggested this for years because of the reduced safety issue, organize a neighborhood, school or church party where there is a bit more supervision. But don’t keep them out of the fun.
By USinUK
October 17, 2008 10:32 AM | Link to this
ooooo … there’s a topic … what was everyone’s favorite and least favorite Halloween candy???
My favorite: bite-size Reese’s cups.
Least favorite: Smarties. (yuk!)
By Gale
October 17, 2008 10:49 AM | Link to this
Smarties are right up there with dum-dums. My dad used to swipe most of our chocolate bars. He was only 29 when I was 10, so I eventually forgave him. The best treat was the molassas popcorn balls the German lady up the street made. Now, children would have to trash those because they weren’t prepackaged. There’s the crime of Halloween today.
By Bruno
October 17, 2008 10:52 AM | Link to this
you know, there are some people who use dinner parties to practice partner swapping
So what time is dinner?
By Bruno
October 17, 2008 10:55 AM | Link to this
Any comments regarding the presidential “roast” last night? While I’m sure that neither candidate wrote their own material, I think both of them came across well and provided a much-needed laugh break.
By USinUK
October 17, 2008 10:57 AM | Link to this
My dad used to swipe most of our chocolate bars
and you eventually forgave him??? I dunno - that sounds grudge-worthy to me … (especially if all he leaves you are smarties and dum-dums)
Since Haloween is only now starting to make headway here in GB, Mr. USinUK had to be taught that you distribute the candy to the kids - you don’t let them dig in and take their own (his first Halloween in the states, he let the kids help themselves - the way they scooped, they looked like grizzlies going after salmon and we ran out of candy in about 30 minutes)
By USinUK
October 17, 2008 11:03 AM | Link to this
Brunooooooooooooooooo -
So what time is dinner?
for you? anytime (waggling eyebrows)
;-)
oh, and I replied to your post from last night, just so you know (it’s at the end of the other thread)
how’s tricks? what’s up on the job front? how are you feeling these days?
By Gale
October 17, 2008 11:13 AM | Link to this
Well, Dad did leave me the wonderful popcorn balls. We last gave out candy about three years ago because we saw fewer than 10 kids each year. It was hazardous to have that candy in the house with us on diets. The last year, a trio of teen boys, sans costume, ended up with double handfulls of fun bars. One year, we even made up little bags with an assortment of treats. 4 kids that year.
Bruno, I don’t know what roast you are speaking of. Something on TV?
By Gale
October 17, 2008 11:20 AM | Link to this
Oh! I remembered something worse than dum-dums, apples. Apples were big in my neighborhood, mostly because I lived in lower suburbia.
By USinUK
October 17, 2008 11:27 AM | Link to this
The last year, a trio of teen boys, sans costume, ended up with double handfulls of fun bars. One year, we even made up little bags with an assortment of treats. 4 kids that year.
we were in Rome last year, so we missed the festivities. we have loads of kids in our neighborhood, so we usually get pretty good traffic. the rule at our house: no costume, no candy. no effort. no reward.
I have the best memories of trick-or-treating … there were easily 30-40 kids in our neighborhood, so everyone decorated their house (we had one family who REALLY went to town every year) … all the kids went around in packs of 5 or 6, so we’d meet up with each other in various places … then, we’d swap each other for candy we liked …
which is, I guess, why the whole sanitized “Halloween Festival” makes me a bit sad … I loved running around at night, dressed up, seeing the neighborhood in the dark …
but, yea, let’s destroy Halloween because some people somewhere do something that some people don’t approve of, even though it has nothing to do with them or their kids.
gah.
By Gale
October 17, 2008 11:40 AM | Link to this
It isn’t those who don’t approve of Halloween who have ruined it for kids. It is the wackos who decide this is a great time to slip chemicals or sharp things into candy to hurt kids, or who would roam the dark with the purpose of physically hurting kids. The lack of safety is destroying Halloween for kids. That is evil.
By Jan
October 17, 2008 11:52 AM | Link to this
I grew up in a small town in Alabama by devout Southern Baptists parents and I doubt that it ever crossed their minds that Halloween was anything more than a fun time for children. But that was forty years ago when people didn’t have to overanalyze everything. People need to lighten up!
By Bruno
October 17, 2008 12:18 PM | Link to this
how’s tricks? what’s up on the job front? how are you feeling these days?
Thanks for the inquiry, USinUK—I’m just hanging in there these days, trying not to let myself become overwhelmed with regret for previous poor decisions. If I could go back in time, I would never have sold my business. Once you are the owner of a business, it’s hard to be “second banana” to someone else.
By Bruno
October 17, 2008 1:05 PM | Link to this
WHO doesn’ think that Rush’s 2112 is the greatest albumn of all time? AND IF NOT, what is your greatest albumn of all time?
I’ll take up your challenge, Gandalf. I’m a big RUSH fan, so love 2112, although I think that Signals might be their best overall work. Here are some of my other favorite albums, in no particular order:
Led Zeppelin: In Through The Out Door
Genesis: Foxtrot, And Then There Were Three
Doobie Bros: The Captain and Me, What Were Once Vices Are Now Habits, Living On the Fault Line
Allman Bros: Eat A Peach
Steely Dan: Gaucho, Pretzel Logic
Santana: Caravanserai, MoonFlower
Traffic: John Barleycorn Must Die, Low Spark of High Heeled Boys
Fleetwood Mac: Fleetwood Mac
Pink Floyd: Wish You Were Here, Meddle
Yes: Fragile, Close To The Edge, Drama
Grateful Dead: Blues For Allah, Dick’s Picks #18
And on the lighter side:
Boz Scaggs: Silk Degrees
Marvin Gaye: I Want You
Harold Melvin and the Blue Notes: Greatest Hits
Grover Washington Jr: Winelight
By Al in Alabama
October 17, 2008 1:07 PM | Link to this
This country has slipped away from it’s Christian foundation specifically because of its acquiensence for pagan rituals. The idea that there is no black & white, that the world is in shades of grey is simply false.
If we do not have the courage to lead our children, others will have the courage to lead them astray.
By Monica
October 17, 2008 1:07 PM | Link to this
Okay, I stop by when I finally have a free second during the day (my kids are typing a paper in the computer lab), expecting to find a topic about the bailout or some other stimulating economic discussion, and I find this???
What’s shakin, everybody? How goes it? As for the actual topic, we do the Halloween thing at our house, but I do know of some families who don’t because of religious reasons. However, they quietly abstain, and don’t make a fuss about it or attempt to stop others from celebrating. These same families also don’t get visits from Santa for much the same reason. While I don’t see the harm in participating, I do respect their decisions and admire them for their consistency.
USinUk: I thought of you a few weeks ago when Roadhouse was on TBS!
By Al in Alabama
October 17, 2008 1:07 PM | Link to this
This country has slipped away from its Christian foundation specifically because of its acquiensence for pagan rituals. The idea that there is no black & white, that the world is in shades of grey is simply false.
If we do not have the courage to lead our children, others will have the courage to lead them astray.
By USinUK
October 17, 2008 1:11 PM | Link to this
Bruno -
I’m just hanging in there these days, trying not to let myself become overwhelmed with regret for previous poor decisions. If I could go back in time, I would never have sold my business.
oh, honey. ya can’t live your life in the rear-view mirror. criminey, there are LOADS of things I’d have done differently - but it’s those experiences (bad, painful, trying or frustrating) that have made me the person I am today.
you, too.
so, take the lessons you’ve learned and look at where you are now and think about where you want to be.
you’re no lightweight, Bruno - you’re one smart cookie - even if you decide you don’t want to rebuild a business, that doesn’t mean you can’t make a big impact.
as I’ve said before - you have folks here who think you’re all that (and a bag of chips!), so buck up, cowboy!! :-)
By USinUK
October 17, 2008 1:19 PM | Link to this
Monica!!
USinUk: I thought of you a few weeks ago when Roadhouse was on TBS
it was on here 2 weeks ago … and, yes, I fell prey to its evil temptations … (I’m weak … WEAK!)
where ya been?? you missed the bailout brouhaha last week … and the week before …
now, we’re all a little deflated, the debates are done, nothing left but the waiting …
By Bruno
October 17, 2008 1:20 PM | Link to this
This country has slipped away from it’s Christian foundation specifically because of its acquiensence for pagan rituals.
Well, you definitely put the “Al” in “Alabama” with your stupid comment. Tell me, Al, exactly WHICH Christian holidays DON’T have their roots in some pagan ritual. If you would read your Bible a little more closely, you would find out that Passover is the only “official” religious holiday endorsed by Jesus. In fact, Christmas and Easter are decidedly NON-BIBLICAL. And please don’t tell me that you celebrate the Sabbath on Sunday. The Sabbath (literally “the seventh day”) has always been on Saturday. Look on your calendar. Jesus never spoke of changing the Sabbath—it took a committee of Earthly men to make that change some 300-odd years later.
Get back to me after you study your Bible a little more closely, ok?
By Bruno
October 17, 2008 1:29 PM | Link to this
What’s shakin, everybody?
Hey, Monica! SO glad to hear from you. The blog just isn’t the same without your input. Hope all is well with you and your family.
so, take the lessons you’ve learned and look at where you are now and think about where you want to be
You are too kind, USinUK. Honestly, my motivation level has been rather poor for the past few years. I think the ultimate motivator for me would be if I could find a good woman to become a life partner with. When you are working only for your own benenfit, it gets too lonely.
P.S. Don’t tell me you attended Osborne HS—That’s the area I lived in when in Marietta. I delivered pizzas from the South Cobb Drive location for a few years in the early 80s. I actually recall seeing Julia Roberts working at the DQ on South Cobb Drive circa 1983.
By Gale
October 17, 2008 1:36 PM | Link to this
I would guess the pagans think Christianity led people astray. They were here first. My ancient history is weak, people. Are any wars known to have been started by pagans?
By USinUK
October 17, 2008 1:37 PM | Link to this
I wonder if Al is related to GtG with the multi-posting …
although he does remind me of what they say about fundamentalism: it’s the fear that someone somewhere is having a good time (with big nods to HL Menken)
Bruno and GtG -
while 2112 is a great album … but the best of all time??? naaahhhh … (I love Rush, but nope, sorry)
Abbey Road, The Nightfly (Donald F*), Dark Side of the Moon and Wish you were Here, Punch the Clock (Elvis C), I’m with Stupid (Aimee Mann), Everything you Say I am that’s what I’m Not (Arctic Monkeys), Three Feet High and Rising(De La Soul) … those are some of my faaaaavorites
By USinUK
October 17, 2008 1:48 PM | Link to this
Bruno -
Don’t tell me you attended Osborne HS—That’s the area I lived in when in Marietta
nope - I was closer to the Sprayberry part of town (although I didn’t go there
if I could find a good woman to become a life partner with. When you are working only for your own benenfit, it gets too lonely
too true. and you’ll find here - we good wimmens are out here (just look at all the keepers we have on the blog!) you’ll find here - it took me ages to find my guy (or for him to find me), so sometimes you just gotta go on faith and focus on the things you DO have, like good friends!! (both in the real world and here)
By Bruno
October 17, 2008 2:02 PM | Link to this
I was closer to the Sprayberry part of town
Snob. ; > }
I like your “best albums” list overall, though I have to confess I’m not familiar with The Arctic Monkeys. I would have thought you might be a fan of the Sex Pistols with your frequent references to bollocks. (Never Mind the Bollocks—Here Are the Sex Pistols).
sometimes you just gotta go on faith and focus on the things you DO have
Don’t worry for me, hon. I’ve had a good life overall. If I die tomorrow, I have nothing to complain about.
By Logical Dude
October 17, 2008 2:08 PM | Link to this
Okay, So let me get this straight Shaunti…
You agree with Andrea that Samhain (pronounced Sow-in) started as an activity to ward off evil spirits. AND THEN, you agree with Andrea that the church created All Saints Day (along with All Hallows Eve). AND NOW you say that there is a dark side to the holiday???
It is a Christian created holiday to ward off evil spirits, NOT celebrate evil. I guess I’m with Andrea and am getting confused.
I will agree that pagans continue the Celtic tradition of Samhain to ward off evil spirits.
So, if you are not pagan, you don’t have to participate in that celebration.
JUST LIKE, if you are not Jewish, you do not have to celebrate a Seder dinner; if you are not Christian, you do not have to celebrate Easter; and if you are not Muslim, you do not have to celebrate Ramadan.
But this halloween, EVERYONE should probably leave out some fruit, milk, and salt to ward off the goblins & fairies.
By USinUK
October 17, 2008 2:18 PM | Link to this
Bruno -
I feel about the Sex Pistols the same way I feel about Elvis P. Love them both as cultural icons. Love the ground they broke in music. Just not a big fan of the music, itself.
(and I think Johnny Rotten is a horse’s patoot, to put it politely)
although, where Elvis is concerned, I admit to making 2 pilgrimages to Graceland and 1 to Sun Studios. Memphis - I love that town!!
By Kendal
October 17, 2008 2:22 PM | Link to this
“Are parents who don’t let their kids participate in Halloween misguided?” Absolutely not, but why are they engaged in a “stealth” campaign to get rid of it for everyone else’s children? Everywhere you look annual, long standing Halloween celebrations are being quietly replaced by “Fall Festivals” that discourage the traditional custumes and paraphanelia. They had better not have the Charlie Brown Halloween episoded pulled from TV schedules or there will be heck to pay!
By Bruno
October 17, 2008 2:26 PM | Link to this
Gotta get back to work, but wanted to comment on Gale’s association of Satanism and Wicca. Having spent last year hanging out with a Wiccan crowd, I can assure you that they have nothing to do with one another.
By Monica
October 17, 2008 3:12 PM | Link to this
USinUK, my favorite Halloween candy: Milk Duds! Of course, they are my dentist’s favorite candy as well… they bring him lots of money…
Charlie Brown’s great pumpkin is a classic, and if you haven’t seen Garfleid’s Halloween special, you are missing out!
By Gale
October 17, 2008 3:18 PM | Link to this
Gale’s association of Satanism and Wicca
Bruno, I hope you understood that I meant they were NOT associated?
By Monica
October 17, 2008 3:23 PM | Link to this
oops - that should have been “Garfield”
By USinUK
October 19, 2008 11:22 AM | Link to this
Mon -
Milk Duds??? yikes! I always felt like I was going to lose a filling eating those things!!
so … what do you think of the Big News?? Colin Powell endorsing Obama!! woowoo!!
By RF
October 19, 2008 2:19 PM | Link to this
Milk duds are good, but nothing beats a good Snickers bar! I seriously can’t believe that there is such a negative reaction to Halloween. Geez, practically every holiday we celebrate has pagan origins. The early churches, in their efforts to reform pagans, adopted their holidays and renamed them to suit “christian” definitions. Oh wait, that’s what’s happening now with the “fall festivals” isn’t it?? I love Halloween. My boys and I usually make costumes and have fun. We even make it educational. One year, we made cowboy and indian costumes and even spent time researching various indian tribes around Georgia and what happened to them. The boys were enthralled by the Trail of Tears story. We visited a local state park that has native American origins and learned a lot about how influential the local tribes were in our history. It’s all in how you present it to the kiddies.
If you like it, let your kids enjoy. If not, turn your outside lights off, watch TBN and pretend it isn’t going on. I just wish people would quit trying to shove their version of morality down all out throats.
USinUK- I ‘bout fell off the chair watching Colin Powell!! His comments on Meet the Press this morning were classic! Even he realizes the repub party needs a new focus and new leadership. It seems more Americans are realizing it also. Keep your fingers crossed that the sensible among us don’t get hoodwinked in the end.
By Gandalf, the Grey
October 20, 2008 8:10 AM | Link to this
I teach my children to mark the houses that don’t give candy, then we roll them after 11 pm. It’s a tradition that makes the muslims in my neighborhood mad, as they don’t celebrate.
By Gale
October 20, 2008 8:17 AM | Link to this
I sure hope the new focus the Republicans work for is not more of the social conservative agenda.
By USinUK
October 20, 2008 8:20 AM | Link to this
RF -
I ‘bout fell off the chair watching Colin Powell!! His comments on Meet the Press this morning were classic! Even he realizes the repub party needs a new focus and new leadership.
you fell off your chair … I stood up and cheered. way to go CP!!! the two biggest highlights to me:
I’m also troubled by, not what Senator McCain says, but what members of the party say. And it is permitted to be said such things as, “Well, you know that Mr. Obama is a Muslim.” Well, the correct answer is, he is not a Muslim, he’s a Christian. He’s always been a Christian. But the really right answer is, what if he is? Is there something wrong with being a Muslim in this country? The answer’s no, that’s not America. Is there something wrong with some seven-year-old Muslim-American kid believing that he or she could be president? Yet, I have heard senior members of my own party drop the suggestion, “He’s a Muslim and he might be associated terrorists.” This is not the way we should be doing it in America.
actually, when I heard him say that, I nearly cried. it’s about flipping time someone stood up and said “ENOUGH.”
anyway, the other thing he said that blew my doors off:
On the Obama side, I watched Mr. Obama and I watched him during this seven-week period. And he displayed a steadiness, an intellectual curiosity, a depth of knowledge and an approach to looking at problems like this and picking a vice president that, I think, is ready to be president on day one. And also, in not just jumping in and changing every day, but showing intellectual vigor. I think that he has a, a definitive way of doing business that would serve us well. I also believe that on the Republican side over the last seven weeks, the approach of the Republican Party and Mr. McCain has become narrower and narrower. Mr. Obama, at the same time, has given us a more inclusive, broader reach into the needs and aspirations of our people. He’s crossing lines—ethnic lines, racial lines, generational lines. He’s thinking about all villages have values, all towns have values, not just small towns have values.
it’s about flipping time someone said that. I’m so sick and tired of hearing that, if you don’t live in one of the flyover states, if you don’t live in a town with 1 stop light, if you don’t live in a town where you can name all the Board of Ed people by their first names (and know their kids and all their kids’ pets), then you’re not a “real Murican”. people from ALL OVER America - from big cities and small towns - we all have ideas and we should all be valued.
By Gale
October 20, 2008 8:23 AM | Link to this
Y’know, Gandalf, traditions like that are expected to be taught by older playmates, not the dad. Dad is supposed to turn a blind eye while publicly saying it is a bad thing and privately claiming to have done much worse when he was a boy.
By USinUK
October 20, 2008 8:43 AM | Link to this
all towns have values, not just small towns have values.
hahaha … here’s an idea … we could always go all Bill O’Reilly and start whining about the “war on Halloween” and hold up every “Fall Festival” as evidence of intolerance …
… we could DEMAND that people greet us on October 31 saying Happy Halloween (then say they’re haters if they don’t)
… we could DEMAND candy corn at every store till for our equivalent of signs saying “Merry Christmas”
… we could DEMAND that every child under 12 goes trick-or-treating for the equivalent of people who have a hard time with the fact that not every child in school is Christian and therefore shouldn’t have to sing about the birth of Jesus if they don’t believe in it.
any other ideas???
By USinUK
October 20, 2008 8:56 AM | Link to this
sorry - the corresponding quote for my post above was in regards to RF’s comment: Oh wait, that’s what’s happening now with the “fall festivals” isn’t it??
By Gale
October 20, 2008 8:58 AM | Link to this
USinUK, you brought a memory to the surface. I am with you about Christian songs in schools for the younger set. However, when I was in high school, we had a very high quality choir. Judges at competitions told our choir master that we were too good to be competing with other high school choirs. The concerts went seriously downhill when the school board insisted that we sing fewer religious songs and do more show tunes. Bah! Most of the really good choral works were commisioned by the church. The show tunes were just show tunes rearranged for group singing. This is what happens when we try to make everything vanilla so noone gets offended.
RF provided an excellent example when thoughtful parenting or teaching comes into the picture. Instead of removing anything that isn’t vanila, take a long look at other options and learn what makes people think those things are great.
By Lyrazel
October 20, 2008 9:00 AM | Link to this
What to give for Halloween? Do we give chocolate which could be tainted with Chinese milk powders since manufacturers need not disclose their food stuff sources and most packaged candy bars are over 16 months old? Do we give hard candies that risk being stuck to the bottom of the bag? Last year we gave Nicorette Gum….—trick or treat kiddies! Husband is busy printing up Lehman./Bear Sterns stock certificates to give to the little monsters instead.
Halloween in America has nothing to do with religious practices. Halloween is the day that signals retailers to start putting up Christmas decorations. While children are accumulating last years surplus of re-packaged candy, retailers are busy moving unsold merchandise from warehouses hauling last years unsold Santa candy canes back on the shelves. Grocery stores are puling out all those unsold frozen turkeys and placing them within sight of the big beer and nacho pyramids for the sacred BIG GAME holiday. Same as it ever was.
By View
October 20, 2008 9:09 AM | Link to this
Trick or Treat is merely teaching little kids to be Extortionists.
and then we wonder why they join The Mob or other gansta-forms.
By USinUK
October 20, 2008 9:10 AM | Link to this
Gale -
The concerts went seriously downhill when the school board insisted that we sing fewer religious songs and do more show tunes
I’m sorry, I know that isn’t funny … but I can’t help but giggle at the thought that you have these incredibly talented kids going from singing Carmina Burana to … CATS. GAH! From Verdi’s Requiem to … Oliver!.
did they do jazz hands to go with it?? ;-)
welcome to the department of education … please check your common sense at the door.
By Michael
October 20, 2008 9:17 AM | Link to this
As a Judeo-Christian, I allow my kids to participate in Halloween with homemade costumes that we make together. As my pastor states, Halloween is the best time of year to pull out a chair and sit in your driveway and meet all the neighbors you never have time to speak to any other time of the year and Guess what? they are coming to your house. And with every piece of candy I hand out I also hand out an invite to our church. Because 90% of my community does not attend church regularly and I think this is a shame.
Happy Halloween…..
By Gale
October 20, 2008 9:20 AM | Link to this
Lyrazel, 16 month old candy. Ugh, very true. How about Girl Scout cookies, as long as we are talking about old seasonal treats. Those sit in the freezer waiting for their few weeks of sunshine too.
By Gale
October 20, 2008 9:31 AM | Link to this
USinUK, hand motions were only done with Rudolf the Red-nosed Reindeer. But you have the picture.
Michael, Great idea. Well, I would pass on the church invite, but I see where you are coming from. We tried hanging out on the porch the first two years, the years we got two our three groups of two to four kids. But I agree it is a great idea and a good way to meet your neighbors. When I was a kid, it wouldn’t have worked because there were so many more kids and parents only accompanied very young children only if there were no older siblings for them to go with.
By Lyrazel
October 20, 2008 9:44 AM | Link to this
Yes but GS cookies would require wrapping each cookie because parents would not let kids eat unwrapped foods—and I am far too cheap to give the little goblins a whole box of Sandies each. Band candy might work—I think we might have some pecan logs still in the freezer from when—well, it says Made In America—might give you a clue……..
Ok and here is something that works—tired of having candy snapped from the bowl by big fisted tweens and running out early? Put candy in bottom of big bowl. Prepare 1 jello mix and cover. Refrigerate. Hold bowl out and have kids grab—ooooooo its fun to watch how creeped out they get pawing through jello for a pecan log.
By Lyrazel
October 20, 2008 9:48 AM | Link to this
Isn’t Carmina Burana a drinking soliloquy penned by tippilating monks and orchestrated by Orf? Whats religious there except drunk monks? O fortuna in excesses—
By Gale
October 20, 2008 9:52 AM | Link to this
Lyrazel, you are just too wicked!
Hey Galdalf, youare Joe Military. Will Colin Powell’s endoresement get the military vote for Obama? What’s your thought?
By USinUK
October 20, 2008 9:55 AM | Link to this
Lyra -
Isn’t Carmina Burana a drinking soliloquy penned by tippilating monks and orchestrated by Orf? Whats religious there except drunk monks? O fortuna in excesses—
WELL DONE! give that girl a cookie!
By Gale
October 20, 2008 10:00 AM | Link to this
Carmen Burana was just USinUK’s mental image. The reality, and maybe the straw that broke the BOE’s back was the fabulous unaccompanied mass written by our fabulously talented choir master. You have never heard a Gloria until you here it in eight-part harmony. Sorry, it is one of the few good memories I have from high school.
By Gandalf, the Grey
October 20, 2008 10:08 AM | Link to this
Gale, I used to burn houses that didn’t give candy! and besides, 8 year olds can’t be out alone after 11! Colin Powell will get the military vote? He’s not running. How he endorsed the Obamanation is beyond me. He will draw a certain percentage of black military voters that didn’t like the Surrender Now and socialistic views of Barry. EXPAT: I have relatives in Bama, but not Al.
By USinUK
October 20, 2008 10:13 AM | Link to this
Gale -
on the flip side, I went to one of Atlanta’s catholic high schools - our principal wouldn’t let us sing “What I Did for Love” from A Chorus Line (we sang the Gloria, we sang Domine Nobis Pacem, we sang loads of classical/religious works … but one non-Oliver! non-Sound of Music showtune and he just about flipped out of his collar)
By Gandalf, the Grey
October 20, 2008 10:21 AM | Link to this
I loved Cathlic School Girls when I was in high school! Loved the skirts and the white blouses! GRRRRRR
By USinUK
October 20, 2008 10:29 AM | Link to this
GtG-
EXPAT: I have relatives in Bama, but not Al.
um. ok. did I miss something?
By Gale
October 20, 2008 10:29 AM | Link to this
USinUK, I detest the chorus-ized show tunes. We did do patriotic songs -the arrangement of the Battle Hymm was very stirring— and the national anthem really sounds good with trained voices. It always gave me chills. We also did some black gospel arrangements that were wonderful. I make the distinction of black gospel to avoid any confusion with other styles of gospel music.
By Gandalf, the Grey
October 20, 2008 10:38 AM | Link to this
KISS the first album! Vince’s Billion Dollar Babies! PAHLEEZE! Revolover ahead of Abby Road! And if we are talking the other Elvis, wouldn’t you want to hear Senior Service? Who could forget Cathlic Girl by that poetic SOB Jim Carrol?
By Gandalf, the Grey
October 20, 2008 10:43 AM | Link to this
I bet everyone on this board has Confrontation by the Marley
By Gandalf, the Grey
October 20, 2008 10:53 AM | Link to this
By USinUK
October 17, 2008 1:37 PM | Link to this
I wonder if Al is related to GtG with the multi-posting
By lovelyliz
October 20, 2008 10:56 AM | Link to this
If any parent doesn’t want their children to participate in Halloween, that’s their right. What I don’t get are the parents who object to Halloween on Sunday based on some religious reason, but have no problem when the holiday falls on other days of the week.
I also take issue with people who object to Halloween because they believe it to be a pagan holiday, but have no problem with Christmas which is not the day of Christ’s birth but was chosen as a way of integrating pagans and others who celebrated the Saturnalia/Winter Solstice.
By USinUK
October 20, 2008 11:08 AM | Link to this
GtG -
I wonder if Al is related to GtG with the multi-posting ah! thanks for that … and thanks for not multi-posting anymore :-)
I loved Cathlic School Girls when I was in high school! Loved the skirts and the white blouses! … wow, going out on a limb on that one, aren’t you ;-) what red-blooded straight male doesn’t like the thought of a catholic school girl uniform???
Revolover ahead of Abby Road I like Revolver (cuz I’m the taxman … yeaaaaahhhh I’m the tax maaaaannnnnn), but I la-la-LOVE Abbey Road (Eleanor Rigby is my most favoritest Beatles song EVAH).
wouldn’t you want to hear Senior Service Senior Services … junior satisfaction … it’s the breath you took too late … it’s the death that’s worse than fate …
today’s edition of DID YOU KNOW …
did you know that Elvis Costello’s father was a band leader in the famous London ballroom, the Hammersmith Palais during the 1950s? true.
By Gandalf, the Grey
October 20, 2008 11:09 AM | Link to this
many Christians have trouble with all the them pagan holidays, check your facts before you spurt out please.
By Gandalf, the Grey
October 20, 2008 11:09 AM | Link to this
many Christians have trouble with all the them pagan holidays, check your facts before you spurt out please.
By The Other Jack
October 20, 2008 11:15 AM | Link to this
Halloween
Several of us fix up a neighbor’s house to be a kid’s scary house. It is scary “light” for the younger kids. We love it. We probably had a thousand kids last year.
As far as the kinds of treats, we adopted a policy of only one of us giving out candy at the exit of the house. Of course there are lots of teens that are too old and usually don’t even bother to dress up so we give them one piece of hard crap candy. The kids that dress get mini-bars and Reese’s Peanut Butter cups.
I’ll probably get yelled at for saying this, but every year, we can’t help but notice that almost every latin or Mexican group will be parents, glowing with pride and their kids will be spotless and wearing hand made costumes that are gorgeous. The parents can seldom speak any English but do not let their kids get more than a couple of feet away from them. The parents would never dream of taking any candy, unlike many of the parents that not only do not even attempt at dressing their kids, but also are carrying a pillow case for their own treats.
I know that Mexican culture celebrates the days of the Dead in October which is lot like Halloween. But it is heart warming to see people who are that proud of their kids.
USinUK
Finishing up and will do a presentation on Wednesday. I love this piece, but I am really sick of it at the same time. I love this small town feel, but I am looking forward to getting back to some real restaurants. I am also starting to play with a band when I get back. We will mostly cover old Southern Rock and Motown so it should be a blast. But the best thing is that these guys almost never practice. THAT’s what I am talking about. I practiced when I was 12. I just want to have some fun and these guys will definitely be fun.
The library is closed today so I am at the local Arby’s that has Y-Fi.
Have a goodin’.
By Lyrazel
October 20, 2008 11:16 AM | Link to this
Lovelyliz, but christmas is a retail holiday. Economic forecasts fix their data on this single seasons growth/loss, spending and employment —the christmas holiday is the make or break economic indicator for business in the usa and abroad. Everyone from oil companies to customer goods manufacturers to banks view christmas as—ahem—an economic season not a religious holiday.
By lovelyliz
October 20, 2008 11:22 AM | Link to this
many Christians have trouble with all the them pagan holidays, check your facts before you spurt out please.
Like Christmas?
By USinUK
October 20, 2008 11:40 AM | Link to this
TOJ -
ARBY’S!!!! have a few sammiches with horsey sauce for me (and a Jamocha shake)
I’ll probably get yelled at for saying this, but every year, we can’t help but notice that almost every latin or Mexican group will be parents, glowing with pride and their kids will be spotless and wearing hand made costumes that are gorgeous.
why would we yell at you for that?? that’s a wonderful thing to say. if you’ve never seen the movie “In America” RUN, do not walk to rent it. it’s about an Irish family that moves to NYC - their first Halloween, they make 2 gorgeous costumes for the girls who are the only ones with homemade costumes at their school. the girls win a “special prize” …
seriously, though, In America is a fantastic movie - I highly, highly recommend it … just make sure you have a box of Kleenex handy.
anyhoooo … get that puppy finished then head home :-)
By Gandalf, the Grey
October 20, 2008 11:42 AM | Link to this
Senior service
Junior dissatisfaction
It’s a breath you took too late
It’s a death that’s worse than fate
U made me nervous for a sec, thought I forgot the words…
By Gandalf, the Grey
October 20, 2008 11:45 AM | Link to this
Just like Christmas! In fact Christmas itself!
By Logical Dude
October 20, 2008 11:46 AM | Link to this
Hi The Other Jack, It’s great you mentioned the Day of the Dead. I’ve learned that in this case, Day of the Dead is November 2. You have All Hallows Eve (Halloween) on October 31, All Saint’s Day (All Hallows?) on November 1, and All Souls Day (Day of the Dead) on November 2.
So, you get THREE holidays for the price of one!
By Gandalf, the Grey
October 20, 2008 11:51 AM | Link to this
TOJ you are right! WE SHOULD ROUND UP THEM DARN ILLEGALS ON HALLOWEEN! THAT WOULD WORK!
By Gandalf, the Grey
October 20, 2008 11:55 AM | Link to this
And as for “christians” the Barry Obama family doesn’t celebrate the 25th of December! Embrace change, to your holiday schedule! No more pork, no more Christmas! God is dead! I know I am just a dreamer, but I am not the only one! Change is good!
By Gandalf, the Grey
October 20, 2008 12:32 PM | Link to this
Logical Dude, that would mean 3 days of busing illegals! 31st pick up on the street, 1st pick em up leaving Mass, and the 1st? Where are they then?
By Gandalf, the Grey
October 20, 2008 12:32 PM | Link to this
Logical Dude, that would mean 3 days of busing illegals! 31st pick up on the street, 1st pick em up leaving Mass, and the 1st? Where are they then?
By USinUK
October 20, 2008 1:00 PM | Link to this
okay … it looks like the bounce has gone out of our bungee …
anyone want a new topic??? I’m open to suggestions …
By chuck
October 20, 2008 1:03 PM | Link to this
How’s everybody doing? Long-time no blog.
I haven’t had much time to post lately, but I have been reading most of the comments. I had to respond to your recent post Brudog. We really haven’t had time to discuss this, though you have brought it up many times. Your recent post said:
If you would read your Bible a little more closely, you would find out that Passover is the only “official” religious holiday endorsed by Jesus. In fact, Christmas and Easter are decidedly NON-BIBLICAL. And please don’t tell me that you celebrate the Sabbath on Sunday. The Sabbath (literally “the seventh day”) has always been on Saturday. Look on your calendar. Jesus never spoke of changing the Sabbath—it took a committee of Earthly men to make that change some 300-odd years later.
While we discussed the “holiday issue when you first came to the blog, I don’t remember ever discussing/debunking your claims about the “Sabbath”. I figured since my time was somewhat limited, I would at least try to address that issue.
First, you are PARTIALLY right. There is no DIRECT scripture reference saying that Jesus “changed the Sabbath”. You are decidedly wrong about the 300-year argument. There was a meeting that made the decision to recognize Sunday as “The Lord’s Day”, however, that meeting just confirmed the practice that had been the norm in the church since BEFORE THE ASCENSCION OF CHRIST.
There are a couple of verses that refer to Jesus going to the Synagogue on the SABBATH AS WAS HIS CUSTOM. Jesus went to the temple on the Sabbath UNTIL His crucifixion. There is no record of this occurring AFTER THE RESURRECTION. This is critical. You say that Jesus “never SPOKE of changing the Sabbath”. That is correct, but He certainly changed HIS OBSERVANCE of it.
Another interesting point that you failed to mention is the fact that Jesus NEVER appeared to the disciples on the Sabbath after His resurrection. He did however visit them on 4 SEPARATE OCCASIONS ON THE FIRST DAY OF THE WEEK, AFTER THE RESURRECTION. He spent this time teaching them, JUST AS HE HAD PREVIOUSLY DONE ON THE JEWISH SABBATH.
Another evidence is that the Apostles conducted Church services ON THE FIRST DAY OF THE WEEK. It is almost silly to think that this change would have been made without the AUTHORITY OF CHRIST. As Creator, Christ alone has the authority to make such a change. Remember that the SABBATH WAS MADE FOR MAN. Not the other way around.
The Holy Spirit descended on the Church ON THE FIRST DAY OF THE WEEK.
As for scripture to back up these assertions, there are many. Here are just a few:
First in Romans chapter 14:5-6
5 One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.
6 He that regardeth the day, regardeth it unto the Lord; and he that regardeth not the day, to the Lord he doth not regard it. He that eateth, eateth to the Lord, for he giveth God thanks; and he that eateth not, to the Lord he eateth not, and giveth God thanks.
Colossians 2: 15 And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it.
16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:
GALATIANS 4:9 But now, after that ye have known God, or rather are known of God, how turn ye again to the weak and beggarly elements, whereunto ye desire again to be in bondage?
10 Ye observe days, and months, and times, and years.
Clearly in these passages, the Bible teaches that it is a matter of religious liberty to CHOOSE which day would be honored. It doesn’t do away with the Sabbath, but clearly gives leeway as to which days would be observed. This would also apply to “religious holidays.”
BTW, these verses answer all of your “pork/shellfish” questions as well.
I hope this clears this issue up for you Brudog, so we never have to hear it again.
By Gandalf, the Grey
October 20, 2008 1:14 PM | Link to this
ALLAH DAMMIT
By Gandalf, the Grey
October 20, 2008 1:14 PM | Link to this
ALLAH DAMMIT
By chuck
October 20, 2008 1:36 PM | Link to this
Hey USinUK, comment on Colin Powell. It’s nothing more than a “Black thang”. He would have been castigated by Blacks, had he endorsed McCain. I can understand the endorsement and have no problem with that, but I did lose a significant amount of respect for him with his comments on Palin. Especially in light of Barack HUSSEIN Obama’s lack of ANY kind of executive experience. Here’s the greatest indicator that this was a matter of race:
“I’m also very pleased to have the endorsement of four former secretaries of state, Secretaries Kissinger, Baker, Eagleburger and Haig. And I’m proud to have the endorsement of well over 200 retired Army generals and admirals,” McCain said. “But I respect and continue to respect and admire Secretary Powell.”
In other words, McCain has almost universal support among retired military leaders and Secretaries of State, but the “Black One” endorses Obama. If Kissinger had endorsed him it might have carried some weight. If Stormin’ Norman had endorsed him we might see it differently, but it is Powell. Definitely not a surprise.
By RACISTS for CHRIST?
October 20, 2008 1:55 PM | Link to this
True colors come out of Chuck’s mouth. It MUST be a “black thang” since a black man is not capable of coming to his own conclusions about which candidate is best for America going forward, in his opinion, based on his experience, knowledge, and reasons he explained very eloquently. Never mind that he was not required to endorse anybody.
Jesus would be so proud. Please join us for Wednesday night supper at the church where we’ll enjoy baked chicken, green bean casserole, chocolate cake, and a sing-a-long of our old-time favoriate, “Ain’t nothin but a BLACK THANG.” Hallelujah!
By Facts
October 20, 2008 2:24 PM | Link to this
The “Sabbath Day” was changed by the Catholic Church from the Jewish Sabbath(Saturday) to our Sunday(1st day of the week on most western calendars) at the Council of Laodicea in 360 AD. (to coincide with an existing SunDay for SunWorshippers.)
Ethiopian Christians worshipped on the Jewish Sabbath until those Papist Italians came down in the 17-18th century and straightened them all out. So the Ethiopians, when they became Christian, considered the Jewish Sabbath the proper Worship Day.
Kinda sounds like something the Papist came up with, that Sunday Worship Day.
By Bruno
October 20, 2008 2:28 PM | Link to this
Another evidence is that the Apostles conducted Church services ON THE FIRST DAY OF THE WEEK. It is almost silly to think that this change would have been made without the AUTHORITY OF CHRIST. As Creator, Christ alone has the authority to make such a change. Remember that the SABBATH WAS MADE FOR MAN. Not the other way around.
chuck—You can try to twist the words of the Bible all you want, but Jesus clearly said “Keep the Sabbath holy”. Period. End of argument. You can draw whatever inference you want from Jesus’s post-Crucifixion “visits”, but there is no Biblical instruction to officially change the Sabbath. Period. End of argument.
While I agree that Romans, Galatians, etc. seem to give some leeway in selecting “new” days to celebrate the Lord, there is also a clear prohibition in the Bible to NOT add or subtract any religious holidays. Period. End of argument.
Our biggest difference of opinion, of course, is greater than the Sabbath argument. Somehow, you believe that the “author” of the Bible is some supernatural being who “rules” mankind from afar. As such, I think that your rationality and sanity are questionable. To me, it is clear that the “author” of the Bible is a bunch of ancient Jewish writers. It is a historical fact that committees of men voted on which of these ancient writings bacame included in the official Bible, and which were rejected. Personally, I don’t place much faith in whatever committees of men vote upon.
By Bruno
October 20, 2008 2:36 PM | Link to this
But, on to more important issues, such as what is the “best” Beatles album, and what is the “best” Halloween candy.
On the Beatles issue, I have to vote with Gandalf in selecting Revolver as the “best”, with Rubber Soul coming in a close second. As much as I like all the Lennon/McCartney compositions, I am somewhat partial to the George Harrison compositions like “I Want to Tell You”, “Something”, and “Old Brown Shoe”. Big nods as well to “Don’t Bring Me Down” and “I Want You (She’s So Heavy)” by L/M.
As for Halloween candy, I’m joining Monica in voting for Milk Duds.
By Bruno
October 20, 2008 2:46 PM | Link to this
Per the topic of the day (Colin Powell’s endorsement of Obama), I actually agree with Powell to a point. Obama is clearly the more vitalistic candidate. Unfortunately, with Obama’s open call for raising government spending, raising everyone’s taxes, “redistributing wealth”, and for forced government administered health care, I can’t vote for him. I’m pretty lukewarm toward McCain right now due to his crackpot scheme of rewarding people who bought a home they can’t afford with a government “bailout”. Some folks I know who make their living in real estate believe that the proposed government real estate bailout will actually prolong the problem by encouraging folks to hang onto the overpriced properties rather than letting the free market determine the true market value.
By chuck
October 20, 2008 3:03 PM | Link to this
chuck—You can try to twist the words of the Bible all you want, but Jesus clearly said “Keep the Sabbath holy”. Period. End of argument.
And yet there are NUMEROUS examples when Christ Himself “violated” the sanctity of the “Sabbath”. He healed someone on the Sabbath, he plucked grain from a stalk on the Sabbath and spoke of getting the ox out of the ditch on the Sabbath. I didn’t “twist” any words of scripture…but you just did. Could you please quote me the verse where Jesus said to “Remember the Sabbath and keep it holy”? That is actually a quote from the 10 commandments and NOT the words of Christ.
When the Pharisees accused the disciples of violating the Sabbath, Jesus said this:
Mark 2:27 Then he said to them, “The Sabbath was made for man, not man for the Sabbath.
Clearly, Jesus was not legalistic about the Sabbath EVEN BEFORE the resurrection.
As for this little comment:
As such, I think that your rationality and sanity are questionable.
You are kidding right? First, you questioning ANYONE’S sanity is hilarious, but that statement would then question the sanity of HUNDREDS of MILLIONS of people who believe the same thing. FUNNY.
Uh, Racist, thinking that Powell’s endorsement was based on ANYTHING other than race, would be ludicrous. When you point out all of the LIBERAL WHITE MEN that he has endorsed, I’ll concede the point. Until then. SHUT UP.
By Gale
October 20, 2008 3:05 PM | Link to this
I had this dream where all the political candidates held press conferences on the same day and confessed that everything they had been promising were complete lies. And since poeple were actually beliving those lies, they all got together and decided they had to fess up and only tell the truth. The truth is… and I woke up. But folks, get a grip. Neither candidate can deliver on what they keep promising.
By Gandalf, the Grey
October 20, 2008 3:08 PM | Link to this
I say we run all them bastages out of DC.. everyone, not just the politicians. Then rerun elections. Pay Congressmen 65K a year, Senators 75K, Supreme Court Justices 85K, Chief Justice, 90K, the VP 75K, the President 100K. Election campaigns are only 90 days, with each canidate getting $1Million to run his election. No more from the party, or any special intrest groups. No one lives in DC but the politicians and thier families. EVERYONE ELSE COMMUTES INTO DC. Gandalf for King of DC!
By chuck
October 20, 2008 3:10 PM | Link to this
Brudog, I have to agree with SOME of your 2:46. McCain’s scheme is as stupid as the current one of bailing out the financial markets. Hopefully we won’t end up getting hosed.
Obama will certainly increase the scope of government involvement in our lives…especially in the economy. Government needs to be reigned in at EVERY LEVEL, not turned loose on an unsuspecting populace.
By USinUK
October 20, 2008 3:11 PM | Link to this
Bruno -
Unfortunately, with Obama’s open call for raising government spending, raising everyone’s taxes
of course, you realize that Ben Bernanke testified today that the gov’t needed to increase spending to prop up the economy, yes?
it’s pure Keynsian economics - if consumers aren’t spending, gov’t needs to take up the slack …
so, don’t make out that it’s only Obama saying this - Ben is a dyed-in-the-wool GOP …
as for the hiking-taxes-on-everyone, that’s not true - it’s only for folks making more than $250K. that’s hardly “everyone” - god knows, it doesn’t include teachers or (ahem) plumbers.
By Powell Transcript (black thang)
October 20, 2008 3:19 PM | Link to this
Reporter: Sir, what part did McCain’s negativity play in your decision, the negative tone of the campaign?
Powell: It troubled me. We have two wars. We have economic problems. We have health problems. We have education problems. We have infrastructure problems. We have problems around the world with our allies. So those are the problems the American people wanted to hear about, not about Mr. Ayers, not about who’s a Muslim or who’s not a Muslim. Those kinds of images going out on Al-Jazeera are killing us around the world.
And we have got to say to the world, it doesn’t make any difference who you are or what you are, if you’re an American, you’re an American. And this business, for example, of the congressman from Minnesota who’s going around saying, “Let’s examine all congressmen to see who is pro-America or not pro-America” — we have got to stop this kind of nonsense, pull ourselves together and remember that our great strength is in our unity and in our diversity. And so, that really was driving me.
And to focus on people like Mr. Ayers and these trivial issues, for the purpose of suggesting that somehow Mr. Obama would have some kind of terrorist inclinations, I thought that was over the top. It was beyond just good political fighting back and forth. I think it went beyond. And to sort of throw in this little Muslim connection, you know, “He’s a Muslim and, my goodness, he’s a terrorist” — it was taking root. And we can’t judge our people and we can’t hold our elections on that kind of basis.
So, yes, that kind of negativity troubled me, And the constant shifting of the argument. I was troubled a couple of weeks ago when in the middle of the crisis, the [McCain] campaign said, “We’re going to go negative,” and they announced it, “We’re going to go negative and attack [Obama’s] character through Bill Ayers.” Now I guess the message this week is, “We’re going to call him a socialist, Mr. Obama is now a socialist, because he dares to suggest that maybe we ought to look at the tax structure that we have.”
Taxes are always a redistribution of money. Most of the taxes that are redistributed go back to those who paid them, in roads and airports and hospitals and schools. And taxes are necessary for the common good. And there is nothing wrong with examining what our tax structure is or who should be paying more, who should be paying less. And for us to say that that makes you a socialist, I think is an unfortunate characterization that isn’t accurate.
I don’t want my taxes raised. I don’t want anybody else’s taxes raised. But I also want to see our infrastructure fixed. I don’t want to have a $12 trillion national debt, and I don’t want to see an annual deficit that’s over $500 billion heading toward a trillion. So, how do we deal with all of this?
Reporter: Are you still a Republican?
Powell: Yes.
By USinUK
October 20, 2008 3:30 PM | Link to this
Uh, Racist, thinking that Powell’s endorsement was based on ANYTHING other than race, would be ludicrous. When you point out all of the LIBERAL WHITE MEN that he has endorsed, I’ll concede the point. Until then. SHUT UP
taken directly from the Book of Rush. Chapter 1, verse 13.
criminey, chuck - until he left the military, he didn’t endorse ANYONE, you ninny, he couldn’t.
since then, he endorsed W in 2000 & 2004 (hey … waitaminnit … are you saying W is a black man??? or just liberal???) cuz to those of us who actually THINK FOR OURSELVES, it sounds like he has had enough of what the GOP has done to this country.
so, before you start spouting Rush, try using your own grey matter a little. I know it’s a novel concept for you, but, really … give it a try.
By Bruno
October 20, 2008 3:39 PM | Link to this
And yet there are NUMEROUS examples when Christ Himself “violated” the sanctity of the “Sabbath”. He healed someone on the Sabbath, he plucked grain from a stalk on the Sabbath and spoke of getting the ox out of the ditch on the Sabbath.
chuck—Jesus’s message certainly was to follow the spirit of the law and not the letter of the law in order to do away with the “legalism” promoted by the Pharisees and Sadduces. I agree with that. However, to arbitralily change the Sabbath Day is a violation of the law, and not an intelligent application of observing the spirit of the law. Throughout the Bible, from Genesis to Revelation, the Sabbath is what we know as Saturday, and not Sunday. Period. End of argument. I’m at work, and don’t have my Bible handy, but will dig up some specific verses attrributed to Jesus tomorrow for you. Not that it will make any difference, since you are the master of rationalization.
I believe that it is in Matthew that Jesus states “I came not to do away with the Law, but to fulfill the Law”.
By Bruno
October 20, 2008 3:45 PM | Link to this
as for the hiking-taxes-on-everyone, that’s not true - it’s only for folks making more than $250K. that’s hardly “everyone” - god knows, it doesn’t include teachers or (ahem) plumbers.
I don’t care what the campaign “pledge” is, all of our taxes are going up to support the $1,000,000,000 in new spending that Obama is proposing. When corporate taxes are raised, for expample, we all end up paying the tab through the “trickle down” effect.
Taxes are always a redistribution of money.
BS. Obama is proposing a direct redistribution of wealth via “tax credits”, i.e. direct checks to “poor” people. That is a far cry from building roads which we all potentially benefit from.
it’s pure Keynsian economics
I’m not an economist, but know that Keynesian economics have been repudiated to a large degree. It works under some circumstances, but not all.
By Gandalf, the Grey
October 20, 2008 3:50 PM | Link to this
EXPAT: WE TAX EXXON MOBILE 100 MILLION DOLLARS..who do you think pays that? a.) EXXON SUCKS IT UP AND JUST EATS IT b.) the pass the savings on to you the consumer! BINGO…So raise Joe the Plumber’s taxes, guess what, next time that thieving son of a bisquit eater comes out to your house and his son is fixing your plumbing, while he sits at your dinner table and tells you how much he is screwing you, he’ll say, “IT’s the OBAMA tax plan, he’s killing me!” (I have had a couple bad experiences with plumbers) WE PAY ALL TAXES CORPORATIONS PAY NO TAXES, they simply pass them along to the consumer….DON’T YOU GET THAT?
By Bruno
October 20, 2008 3:51 PM | Link to this
The bottom line on McCain is that he has run the poorest campaign since Bob Dole. He and his minions don’t need to waste their time on small potatoes (a Quaylism for you) like Bill Ayres or Obama’s “Muslim roots”. Who cares? There are much bigger issues on the table such as the forced redistribution of wealth, forced government administered health care, etc.
By USinUK
October 20, 2008 4:00 PM | Link to this
From Sean Hannity’s blog: http:// forums. hannity.com/showthread.php?t=1010601
“Secretary Powell says his endorsement is not about race,” Limbaugh wrote in an email. “OK, fine. I am now researching his past endorsements to see if I can find all the inexperienced, very liberal, white candidates he has endorsed. I’ll let you know what I come up with.”
chuckles aka “Rush’s Parrot”: Uh, Racist, thinking that Powell’s endorsement was based on ANYTHING other than race, would be ludicrous. When you point out all of the LIBERAL WHITE MEN that he has endorsed, I’ll concede the point. Until then. SHUT UP.
sad. so very sad. and pa-flippin-thetic.
By Bruno
October 20, 2008 4:01 PM | Link to this
Oops—correction. That is $1,000,000,000,000 in new spending. I forgot three zeros.
By JokesOn
October 20, 2008 4:16 PM | Link to this
Dog,
Oops—correction. That is $1,000,000,000,000 in new spending. I forgot three zeros.
Really, check out a valid third party source on what the real story is on who pays what and where it comes from. At the current rate of spending, that is not anything and has no absolute time frame to put it in context.
The short story is in fact that you and I will pay more taxes under McCain and less under Obama. So, it is really more of a matter of where do you want your money to go: Overseas or spent here on our own issues.
By Bruno
October 20, 2008 4:28 PM | Link to this
The short story is in fact that you and I will pay more taxes under McCain and less under Obama. So, it is really more of a matter of where do you want your money to go: Overseas or spent here on our own issues.
I wish I could believe you, JokesOn, especially since it appears that there is a realistic chance that Obama might be the next Prez. The only hope for McCain, IMO, is that it rains like heck on election day so that there is a low voter turn-out.
If Obama gets elected, I hope he takes a page from Clinton’s playbook whereby he talks a liberal game, but actually follows a conservative agenda.
Either way, I don’t want to hear another word from wither candidate about “bailing out” homeowners who purchased homes they couldn’t afford. Let the free market determine the real worth of the properties, not some government committee.
By USinUK
October 20, 2008 4:34 PM | Link to this
GtG -
corporations pay the least amount of taxes that they’ve paid in decades - and, until this year, they’ve made record profits. I don’t know where you’re getting that Exxon pays $100M in taxes - they don’t. In fact, they RECEIVE corporate welfare from the gummint, they don’t pay.
so, please spare me your faux concern about corporate america. the fact is YOUR taxes have been paying for CORPORATE welfare - and all the while, they’ve been holding back on pay increases and sending jobs overseas.
oh, yeah, that’s tax money well spent.
By JokesOn
October 20, 2008 4:43 PM | Link to this
Either way, I don’t want to hear another word from wither candidate about “bailing out” homeowners who purchased homes they couldn’t afford.
I agree, yet do not believe one should blame the owners. They (one of my good friends in one of those people) looked to their lenders for advice and were simply looking to have a home, not screw anyone - unlike the banks and lenders. Many were assured that these were good programs.
I wish I could believe you, JokesOn, especially since it appears that there is a realistic chance that Obama might be the next Prez. I do not want you to believe me. Really. Go online tonight and find a third party assessment of both tax plans. It won’t take but a few minutes and you will be armed with accurate info. Not trying to sway you either direction here. Just want your arguments against him to be informed;)
By Bart
October 20, 2008 4:44 PM | Link to this
Bush the Impaler borrowed $5 trillion dollars from the Saudis and the Chinese to give tax breaks to the super-rich and the oil companies and Grumpy thinks raising taxes on the rich will hurt some plumber wannabe in Pennsylvania? That’s stupid - even for McCain.
By Gale
October 21, 2008 9:56 AM | Link to this
USinUK, It appears the financial crisis was just what Gordon Brown needed to improve his approval rating.
By The Other Jack
October 21, 2008 10:27 AM | Link to this
Sorry guys, but any tax cut after giving away two trillion dollars is simply wishful thinking.
Clinton did the same thing in 92. In fact, i recently saw a Clinton political ad and it was the same sad song: tax the rich, give the middle class a tax break and free health care.
Of course even then within a few weeks of being in office, we got the bad news that the tax cut was soon to become the largest single tax increase in history and of course no health care, in fact HMOs were given the power to make life decisions over the decisions of doctors.
I love this exchange. I saw it last night on MSNBC:
Liberal: Obama will give a tax break to 95% of Americans
Conservative: But only 60% of Americans pay taxes, so that will mean a handout to 40% of the country.
Liberal: I said that he would give a tax break to 95% of working Americans.
Consevative: But we have 7% unemployment. That means that 33% of Americans will still get a handout.
Liberals: But that is still better than the Bush tax breaks that gave the rich all the breaks.
Conservative: but Bush gave a tax break to any American that was paying taxes.
MSNBC: Well that was a spirited debate: We’ll be back right after this … .
I’m even more convinced. We are about to get what we have gotten for the past two years, only much more condensed.
Expect a huge gas price increase.
Expect record unemployment:
Expect unprecedented and violent attacks on America with no retaliation.
Expect a stock market crash that will make the great depression look like child’s play. Some are already predicting a merger between Wall Street and several of the other world markets. .
Expect the most liberal government since 1932 to repeal all abortion restrictions.
Expect the most liberal government since 1932 to redistribute wealth like never in our history.
Expect the most liberal government since 1932 to take more money than every before from Big Oil, Big Insurance, and special interest groups while middle class America will be reduced even further in importance.
Expect the liberal media to blame it all on the Republicans even though they haven’t held power in Washington since 2006.
But I honestly believe that this is what we need. I have decided not to vote this election. I can’t bring myself to support subjecting John McCain to being humiliated for four years by a media that is no longer hiding the fact that it is extremely biased. He will be a lame duck from day one with a Democratic Congress that has a 60% majority.
America, take your medicine. Your ignorance as to what has been happening for the past two years is about to catch up to you.
I just hope our Capitalistic economy can survive until rational people take the government back.
Outta here. Back to my little motel room and this endless project.
Hello, Gale, USinUK. Sorry, but i needed to vent.
By HeeHaw
October 21, 2008 10:35 AM | Link to this
*Your ignorance as to what has been happening for the past two years is about to catch up to you. *
as opposed to the ignorance of the past 8 years has caught up with us all?
By The Other Jack
October 21, 2008 10:52 AM | Link to this
HEEHaw
So how was your life two years ago? All that horrible phone tapping really messing up your life, huh?
Now, let’s see. What else was going wrong in 2006. Building at an all time high. Inflation at an all time low. Unemployment almost nonexistent. Stock market going crazy. Great economy. Then the democrats took over Congress.
Yea, that phone tap stuff was horrible wasn’t it?
By Gandalf, the Grey
October 21, 2008 10:57 AM | Link to this
Oh, eldest of 8th graders, welcome back, now STFU you DUM BASS! All others of rational thought processing abilities, EXPAT, WHEN YOU TAX A CORPORATION WHO PAYS THOSE TAXES? YOU DO! Well not you cuz your an EXPAT, but the rest of the US consumers do. Oh and what is Barry going to do about illegals? Nodda senora, Nodda. Give us your tired, your weary, your uneducated, your crimminals, we will put them to work thugging in our neighborhoods. F@CK OBAMA!
By GOB
October 21, 2008 11:22 AM | Link to this
Now, let’s see. What else was going wrong in 2006. Building at an all time high. Inflation at an all time low. Unemployment almost nonexistent. Stock market going crazy. Great economy.
Mortgage companies and investment banks were all making their money on false assumptions and lending practices that have gone a long way to wrecking our economy. Many Americans lived in big houses that they couldnt afford and ran up huge credit card debt. They may have looked like they were doing great, but the reality was something very different.
And how many of those homes built while construction was at an all time high are sitting empty right now? Can you name any specific policies that Democrats have enacted that tanked the stock market or driven up unemployment or driven inflation up.
The Democrats took over congress (by a 1 vote margin, with Republicans able to block almost anything they want) because the Republican policies werent working. Whoever win the election is going to have tons of problems, and from statistical standpoint, wont look great, at least initially.
Your argument may hold some water in 4 years if Obama wins and the Democrats take 60 senate seats and nothing improves. Right now, though, not so much.
By USinUK
October 21, 2008 11:30 AM | Link to this
TOJ -
Building at an all time high. Inflation at an all time low. Unemployment almost nonexistent. Stock market going crazy. Great economy. Then the democrats took over Congress.
ohfercryingoutloud … give it a rest. this dawg don’t hunt. AT ALL. and I’m tired of hearing this steaming pile of crap from you, TOJ - you’re better than this.
you know that the Dems are not responsible for the stock market getting a swirly, nor are they responsible for the increase in unemployment. christ, TOJ, enough of this - it’s asinine and it makes you look like a chucklehead/Rush wannabe.
Expect the liberal media to blame it all on the Republicans even though they haven’t held power in Washington since 2006.
you mean the way the GOP blames everything on Clinton, even though he hasn’t been in office for 7+ years?
But only 60% of Americans pay taxes
yet another steaming pile. EVERY American pays taxes - at the very least, they pay sales tax, ad valorum tax on their cars, gas tax, etc. Plus, property tax in included in rent. While everyone may not pay income tax (hello, stay-at-home-moms), EVERYone pays taxes.
Expect record unemployment
really? record unemployment? like the 30% we had during the Depression? you think we’re going to beat that kind of record? or more like the current projections of 7.5% to 8.5%? THAT kind of record?
Expect the most liberal government since 1932 to redistribute wealth like never in our history
what exactly do you think has been going on during the last 7+ years? The rich have been getting richer while the middle class has actually lost wealth. Wealth distribution??? honey, you’re soaking in it.
and GtG - WHEN YOU TAX A CORPORATION WHO PAYS THOSE TAXES
oh … I see … so a corporation should reap the benefits of taxes but not pay any. they should receive the benefits of infrastructure, police protection, etc, but shouldn’t pay for it - all while they send American jobs overseas, thus lowering the tax base and reducing the number of people who can afford to buy their products - EXCELLENT idea
By USinUK
October 21, 2008 11:39 AM | Link to this
Gale -
USinUK, It appears the financial crisis was just what Gordon Brown needed to improve his approval rating.
gah. the only thing worse than the Gordon Brown PMship is the thought of a “Just Call Me Dave” Cameron PMship. And the lib-dems really are an ineffective lot - they love to present themselves as the alternative, but they really don’t say what they’re FOR, just that they’re not Labor or the Tories.
the best thing to come along lately is Boris Johnson, London’s mayor. after WAY too many years of “Red” Ken Livingstone (who looked at London as his little plaything), we finally have a mayor who is trying to do something. good gravy, how I wsa glad to see Ken get the boot - what an a$$
By Gandalf, the Grey
October 21, 2008 12:02 PM | Link to this
EXPAT for an intelligent person your kind hard headed on the tax thing. CORPORATIONS DON’T PAY ANY TAXES RIGHT NOW OR WHEN OBAMA TAXES THEM OFFSHORE. They simply pass that cost on to the consumer! Or how do you think it works?
By JustaJew
October 21, 2008 12:05 PM | Link to this
I just LOVE how TOJ says to EXPECT all these DIRE consequences for the next 4 years. Isn’t this the same guy who also said to EXPECT a massive swing from Obama to McCain after the RNC and the nomination of Palin as his running mate? What happened to that EXPECTATION? TOJ, you really should ease up on the prognostication, it’s not your strong suit.
By USinUK
October 21, 2008 12:18 PM | Link to this
GtG -
CORPORATIONS DON’T PAY ANY TAXES RIGHT NOW OR WHEN OBAMA TAXES THEM OFFSHORE. They simply pass that cost on to the consumer! Or how do you think it works?
they pass every cost on to the consumer - taxes, overhead, etc - I just happen to think that they receive the same protections and the same benefits to taxes that you and I do. For instance, last time I checked, all those high-rise office buildings in Atlanta had flushing toilets - you don’t think they should pay for sewage? those offices have kitchens with running water - they shouldn’t pay for that water’s processing? they generate loads of garbage - they shouldn’t pay for removal? they are protected by the police and fire service - they shouldn’t pay for that? their buildings are located near main streets and mass trans to simplify their workers to get to the office - they shouldn’t contribute to infrastructure upkeep?
by that same train of thought, they shouldn’t pay for the electricity they use (they pass those costs along, too).
sorry, GtG - but, not only do I not subscribe to your view, I think you are woefully, WOEFULLY wrong on this.
By HEEHaw
October 21, 2008 12:32 PM | Link to this
now let’s not p-ss on TOJ’s rain parade that the Democrats getting a slight majority in Congress in 2006 is somehow responsible for ALL the current affairs that began long ago.
By Another "real" American
October 21, 2008 12:42 PM | Link to this
When corporations pay more taxes, consumers pay more? Okay. So when corporations receive tax breaks, why don’t consumers get a price break? Hmmm… If cutting taxes for the rich “creates jobs” then why are decent, steady jobs disappearing from America, where taxes for the rich were slashed seven years ago? Why are corporations getting American tax breaks while creating more jobs overseas than here? Are the sons and daughters of oil billionaires going out into America, investing in infrastructure, and creating small businesses that employ the “real Americans” Gov. Palin was talking about? Or do they spend their wads on Italian sportscars, French champagne, and Columbian toot (no sales tax) and do their clothes shopping in Milan and London?
The government isn’t taking more money from my check, the corporations are! Gas, food, insurance, utility and phone companies — all increasing while my income stays basically the same (and I’m lucky!) Those corporations get tax breaks, but I shouldn’t? Record profits for oil companies who have tax loopholes you could drive the Valdez through, and I should feel lucky to get mid-grade for $3.59? Sorry, but what’s trickling down doesn’t feel like the special treat Ronnie said it would be.
I gladly pay my taxes (because I love America and support the troops, roads, schools, policemen and firemen). Why can’t those who are benefitting the MOST from this economy gladly pay theirs? Don’t they love America?
By Randy
October 21, 2008 12:44 PM | Link to this
I consider myself a pretty conservative Christian and I find nothing wrong with kids having fun at Halloween, provided that they know this is just for fun and not something serious. I dressed up for Halloween when I was a child and didn’t even relate it to evil.
By Newzwyre
October 21, 2008 12:47 PM | Link to this
second try - this time without links
TOJ wrote “All that horrible phone tapping really messing up your life, huh?”
All Americans should be troubled by this administrations end-run around our civil rights and Constitutional protections. I’ve never personally been targeted by the KKK but many of my fellow Americans were harmed by them. Should I have not been concerned because it didn’t mess my life up? I’ve never been personally targeted by the NSA for an illegal wiretap (as far as I know —) but as a citizen, I’m concerned. I feel that it’s my duty to protest government infringment on the rights of others.
Your sneering dismissal of this loss of freedom just indicates, to me anyway, your contempt for the Constitution and your acceptance of the authoritarian state.
“Fox News reports that the FBI now admits to listening to citizens via their turned off cell phones. Cell phones are now tracking and monitoring devices so the state can keep track you your whereabouts, you conversations and who you associate with.”
— —“The Bush administration has repeatedly defended its warrantless surveillance of Americans as being directed only against “people with known links to al Qaeda and related terrorist organizations.”
“Now two intercept operators who worked for the National Security Agency at Fort Gordon in Georgia have come forward to tell ABC News that isn’t true.”
“David Murfee Faulk described to ABC’s Brian Ross how he had listened to “personal phone calls of American officers, mostly in the Green Zone [in Baghdad], calling home to the United States, talking to their spouses and sometimes their girlfriends.”
[snip]
Adrienne Kinne, who like Faulk is an Arab linguist, said she had received the same orders and had listened to hundreds of Americans in the Middle East simply calling home. She emphasized that these were “Americans who are not in any way, shape, or form associated with anything to do with terrorism. It was just personal conversations that really nobody else should have been listening to.”
“When asked about President Bush’s statement that the intercepts were directed only at known al-Qaeda suspects, Kinne stated, “That is completely a lie.” She said that military officers, journalists, and Red Cross workers were among the people whose calls she transcribed.”
“Faulk told ABC that certain calls were even passed around among the intercept operators like office jokes. “I was told, ‘Hey, check this out, there’s some good phone sex.’ … It was there, stored the way you’d look at songs on your iPod.”
By Gandalf, the Grey
October 21, 2008 12:48 PM | Link to this
NOPE EXPAT you are all confused living in that socialist utopia over there in the UK.IF YOU Raise taxes on corporations, the people pay these higher taxes. ONLY consumers pay taxes! RAISE TAXES ON CORPORATIONS, YOU ARE IN FACT RAISING TAXES ON CONSUMERS! So when The Big Red Monster, as I am now calling that muslim cleric in disguise (Barry), says that 95% of the people won’t pay anymore taxes he is lying. I hope you aren’t too stupid to see this, it is pretty basic. Raise taxes>that raises the cost of the finished product. EVER HEAR OF THE FAIR TAX? That’s what we need!
By USinUK
October 21, 2008 12:50 PM | Link to this
Another “real” American -
raucous applause
well said.
By USinUK
October 21, 2008 1:02 PM | Link to this
GtG -
I disagree with you for the reasons I stated above. You seem to think that corporations should reap all the benefits of government services without paying for them. Sorry, but my income is taxed to pay for the services my government provides - corporations should pay for them, too.
period.
you can keep arguing who is going to pay the bottom line, but the fact is that, in a competitive marketplace, the lowest prices win. companies can pass along their taxes to the consumer if they want, but the ones who pass along the least will be the ones who get the most consumer business.
or didn’t you study economics?
By Newzwyre
October 21, 2008 1:09 PM | Link to this
speaking of “real” Americans —
“Jon Stewart offered some clues on Monday’s Daily Show for how to tell whether you belong to the “real America” where McCain supporters are in the majority and the fake America that lies everywhere else.”
“Stewart began by showing McCain advisor Nancy Pfotenhaurer describing northern Virginia — the Obama-supporting suburbs around Washington, DC — as not part of “real Virginia.”
“What the f—k?” asked Stewart in astonishment.”
“Pfotenhauer went on to list “places in other states,” like “northern Wisconsin, the Iron Range of Minnesota … the rural areas of Missouri.”
“So, even if John McCain doesn’t win the ‘election’ in ‘America,’” Stewart summarized, “he’ll still be president of ‘real America’ — the America that matters, the one that Sarah Palin will still take questions from.”
“Stewart then ran an audio clip of Palin stating, “We believe that the best of America is in the small towns that we get to visit and in these wonderful little pockets of what I call real America, being here with all of you hard-working, very patriotic, very pro-America areas of this great nation.”
“What the f—k?” Stewart asked again, as he raised his head. “So if small towns are real America, that would make big cities like Washington, DC and New York City the capitals of fake America … the Ground Zero, if you will, of anti-America — I bet bin Laden feels like a real a***** now, huh?”
By REDISTRIBUTION OF WEALTH
October 21, 2008 1:10 PM | Link to this
I, Your Government, will collect income taxes from all middle class working people and wealthy people who do not adequately hide, stash, and stow their income via the help of highly-paid financial pros. I will collect sales and property tax from everyone, in some form. I will provide loopholes to corporations big enough to fund my next campaign.
Instead of investing all that money back into America, for the betterment of the American people and the strength of our nation, I will instead allot a small, shrinking amount for necessities, while asserting that these MUST be slashed soon.
I will then redistribute tens of billions of [unaudited] dollars IN CASH to my buddies in the “contracting” industry, via a little “war” I set up in a country that didn’t attack us, which I stated we won years ago, but which is not over, as the “mission” is still undefined. Of these tens of billions per year, I will allot a modicum of salary and post-service benefits to American Soldiers (but not too much) while asking more and more of them, and allot big major buck$ to my friends, (whose employees receive salaries up to five and even ten times those of our soldiers), via NO-BID, open-ended contracts, the details of which are not readily available for your viewing. All the better that my buddies’ HQs are in another country, to avoid pesky audits from unpatriotic accountants who want to know where the taxpayers’ money goes. I am the Decider. I decide where it goes. Since this money is being poured directly from the taxpayers’ treasury into pockets on foreign soil, only a portion of it is being returned here in the form of taxes.
Oh, by the way, I ran out of money for this years ago, so I’ve borrowed a few trillion dollar$ from non-friendly, America-hating countries IN YOUR NAME AND WITH INTEREST PAYABLE BY YOU, to cover this little exercise in wealth redistribution. So, good luck living in debt and trying to play catchup for the rest of your lives. And your children’s lives. And their children’s lives… while our infrastructure crumbles and we become less competitive in the global economy every passing year. Or until China reclaims the debt in the form of gas, grass, a$$, or your particular suburban paradise. By then it will be somebody else’s problem, not mine.
You’re welcome.
By USinUK
October 21, 2008 1:19 PM | Link to this
Newzy -
glad to have you back … you’ve been missed!
By Newzwyre
October 21, 2008 1:33 PM | Link to this
Thank you, USinUK. That’s very kind of you to say.
I stop by every once in a while and lurk for a bit but the topics in the last few weeks have been a little tame, so I’ve been spending much of my ‘down time’ over at Culture11 and Politico.
By Gale
October 21, 2008 2:05 PM | Link to this
Newzwyre FBI now admits to listening to citizens via their turned off cell phones. Can they really do that? That phone is going to the bottom of the drawer at night. No more leaving it on the night stand. Yikes!
By Gandalf, the Grey
October 21, 2008 2:15 PM | Link to this
EXPAT: U R Wrong, sorry! FAIR TAX, read the book, learn! Open you mind and be inspired. Learn what Hope is! poop in one hand, Hope in he other, which one fills up faster?
By USinUK
October 21, 2008 2:55 PM | Link to this
GtG -
EXPAT: U R Wrong, sorry!
and I think you are. blahblahblah - (shrug) - we disagree, so what else is new?
FAIR TAX, read the book, learn! Open you mind and be inspired
I skimmed my brother-in-law’s copy … all it is is the national sales tax all gussied up and gone to town. if you really think that’s going to work, may I introduce you to a little thing called VAT??? it was meant to east income taxes … all it’s done is increase the gov’t spending addiction …
(not to mention, the “fair tax” makes it near impossible to accurately forecast revenues for budgetary purposes - volatile economies such as this would cause too much of a shortfall)
lastly, it’s regressive and has a MUCH larger impact on the poor than the wealthy.
By Bruno
October 21, 2008 3:37 PM | Link to this
Clinton did the same thing in 92. In fact, i recently saw a Clinton political ad and it was the same sad song: tax the rich, give the middle class a tax break and free health care. Of course even then within a few weeks of being in office, we got the bad news that the tax cut was soon to become the largest single tax increase in history and of course no health care, in fact HMOs were given the power to make life decisions over the decisions of doctors.
TOJ—You are taking a beating today, so I will chime in to your defense. Obama is a smooth talker, promising a free chicken in every pot at the expense of the “wealthy”, but I don’t believe him for a second. His response to “Joe the plumber” said it all to me: Rather than viewing the federal government as a minimal organization whose purpose is to provide common defense for us all, he views it as a social agency whose goal is to redistribute wealth, administer health care for us all, etc. For those of you on board who are repulsed at the idea of the government listening in on private phone calls (and I am one of you), why, pray tell, would you be comfortable with the government being in charge of your health care??? I doubt seriously that McCain will deliver on all of his campaign promises (lower taxes, less government spending), but at least he and I agree philosophically.
By Monica
October 21, 2008 3:38 PM | Link to this
NO FAIR TAXES! I love the idea of a flat tax: everyone pays 10% of his or her income, no matter how big or small. We could eliminate the IRS, thereby saving the government millions.
I don’t know if y’all discussed this a few weeks ago, but I have a new bailout plan. Instead of giving a trillion dollars to Wall Street, how about giving every taxpayer $100,000? We could pay off our credit card debts, re-finance our mortgages (and put money back in the banks for credit lines), and buy the plasma tv at Best Buy, all of whic stimulate economy. Which plan is cheaper? I’ll even settle for $50,000. :)
By Gale
October 21, 2008 3:56 PM | Link to this
Yes, my personal bailout plan of $100k. I could work with that. I wouldn’t just salt it away. Carpenters, plumbers, painters, dry wallers, and landscapers would all benefit. Think what a boon to the small business world. And, they and their turn would spend that money, buying stufff that goes through my employer. All good stuff. Will it happen? No. Instead, the gov wants to “rebate” some of my taxes to me. Darn nice.
By Bruno
October 21, 2008 3:57 PM | Link to this
I skimmed my brother-in-law’s copy … all it is is the national sales tax all gussied up and gone to town. if you really think that’s going to work, may I introduce you to a little thing called VAT??? it was meant to east income taxes … all it’s done is increase the gov’t spending addiction …(not to mention, the “fair tax” makes it near impossible to accurately forecast revenues for budgetary purposes - volatile economies such as this would cause too much of a shortfall) lastly, it’s regressive and has a MUCH larger impact on the poor than the wealthy.
USinUK—I agree completely with your analysis of the “Fair Tax”. One final thought: If you think that the current system of employer-collected taxes lends itself to “cheating”, just wait until all of the shopkeepers become the defacto IRS. It’s not hard for me to believe that they will start keeping “two sets of books” in order to avoid collecting the (high) taxes from their customers.
By Gandalf, the Grey
October 21, 2008 3:58 PM | Link to this
EXPAT your just a closet socialist.
By Bruno
October 21, 2008 4:06 PM | Link to this
I don’t know if y’all discussed this a few weeks ago, but I have a new bailout plan. Instead of giving a trillion dollars to Wall Street, how about giving every taxpayer $100,000? We could pay off our credit card debts, re-finance our mortgages (and put money back in the banks for credit lines), and buy the plasma tv at Best Buy, all of whic stimulate economy. Which plan is cheaper? I’ll even settle for $50,000. :)
Monica, glad to have your input back on W2W. We fellows need all the hotties we can get on board. Hopefully Gandalf won’t keep driving all of you away with his crude language.
I’ve heard similar reasoning from others re: the proposed bailout plan, although your figures are a little off. I’ll cut you a break since you are an English teacher and not a math teacher. If you multiply $100,000 per person times nearly 300,000,000 people, the dollar amount would be 30 trillion dollars.
By Monica
October 21, 2008 4:42 PM | Link to this
Bruno, I thought the 300 million in the US included children too, and my plan was people who work for a living. But we could always amend that to per household. :)
By michelle
October 21, 2008 5:10 PM | Link to this
first of all i agree with shaunti because in the bible it does say that witchery is a form of evil and it is a sin and anyone who is a true christian should know this. holloween is the celebration of the day of the dead when ghouls and ghost rise from their graves and haunt the land if it were’nt so evil why do you think that they dress as dead people with blood dripping from there masks or why do you think they put up skeletons and scare the little kids aways some of you should pick up your bible before you even text in these outrageous things
By JokesOn
October 21, 2008 5:12 PM | Link to this
there are about 138 million taxpayers in the United States
So, the math would be $100,000 * 138mil = 13,800,000,000,000
No offense dog (mainly poking the math guy here), but that is almost 1/3 of your figure. Population does not = the number of people taxed. I will forgive you since your thing seems to be theoretical math and not practical;)
Take care man.
By Bruno
October 21, 2008 7:55 PM | Link to this
No offense dog (mainly poking the math guy here), but that is almost 1/3 of your figure. Population does not = the number of people taxed. I will forgive you since your thing seems to be theoretical math and not practical;)
Major Oops—I missed the “taxpayers only” parameter mentioned in Monica’s post. Serves me right for trying to blog while working, the very thing that I’ve criticized many of you for doing in the past. I probably do prefer theoretical math over practical math since the implications are more wide-ranging.
As promised to chuck, however, I did some Biblical research last night regarding the “true Sabbath”. chuck is right in that Jesus didn’t directly say “keep the Sabbath holy”. However, he was WAY off the mark with some of his other statements:
He did however visit them on 4 SEPARATE OCCASIONS ON THE FIRST DAY OF THE WEEK, AFTER THE RESURRECTION.
The “first day of the week” is mentioned a total of 8 times in the New Testament (Matt 28:1; Mark 16:2-9; Luke 24:1; John 20:1,19; Acts 20:7; and 1Cor 16:2). The first six of these references were to the SAME first day of the week, i.e. immediately following the Crucifixion when the rock is rolled away from Jesus’s tomb. They are the same event recorded in different places.
He spent this time teaching them, JUST AS HE HAD PREVIOUSLY DONE ON THE JEWISH SABBATH.
In the Bible, the Sabbath is NEVER ONCE referred to as the “Jewish Sabbath”. In fact, the Sabbath is established in Gen 2:1, a few thousand years before there were any Jews on Earth and is last mentioned in Revelation, well after the Christian church was established. When Jesus stated in Mark 2:27 that the Sabbath is made for man, he didn’t say for “Jewish man only”. As such, the Sabbath is the same for both Jew and Gentile, i.e. for all people.
Another evidence is that the Apostles conducted Church services ON THE FIRST DAY OF THE WEEK.
If the Apostles conducted church service on the first day of the week, it certainly isn’t recorded in the Bible. In Acts 20:7, it mentions that several disciples of Christ came together to break bread and listen to Paul speak. This, however, is a one-time event and in no way establishes a new tradition. It is never referred to as a holy day, a day of rest, etc. It is simply called the “first day of the week”. The breaking of bread on a non-Sabbath day is not unique since Jesus himself broke bread in the middle of the week (Luke 22) and the disciples sometimes did it every day (Acts 2:42-46). On the other hand, the Sabbath Day IS continually observed throughout the New Testament by all of the Apostles, including Paul. In Acts alone, there are more than 80 meetings held on the Sabbath, and it is referred to by Paul (Acts 13:14) and James (Acts 15:21) specifically as the Sabbath.
Clearly in these passages, the Bible teaches that it is a matter of religious liberty to CHOOSE which day would be honored. It doesn’t do away with the Sabbath, but clearly gives leeway as to which days would be observed. This would also apply to “religious holidays.”
The bottom line is that the Bible NEVER authorizes the changing of the Sabbath. In fact, in Matthew 15:1-9, Jesus specifically chastises the Pharisees for changing God’s commandments for the sake of manly “tradition”. Personally, I don’t give a rat’s behind what day of the week you and your fellow “Christians” choose to worship on. Just don’t try to tell me that it is Biblically based. I’ll leave you with a quote from Jesus (Matt 15:8-9):
“These people honor me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me. They worship me in vain; their teachings are but rules taught by men”.
By USinUK
October 22, 2008 8:15 AM | Link to this
Bruno -
For those of you on board who are repulsed at the idea of the government listening in on private phone calls (and I am one of you), why, pray tell, would you be comfortable with the government being in charge of your health care???
first of all, the former was done without going through the proper judicial channels. the latter would be authorized by taxpayers.
secondly, speaking as one who lives in a country with state-run healthcare, I can tell you with first-hand experience that it isn’t the bogeyman that people make it out to be. ESPECIALLY for people who are on meds (arthritis, diabetes, MS, etc) - all meds are only £10. think of the savings for senior citizens. all new parents receive home visits from a health worker who makes sure your baby is progressing as it should. visits to the doctor are free. got cancer? you don’t have to worry about losing your house to bankruptcy due to the cost of treatments (and, yes, 50% of all bankruptcies are due to medical costs)
how necessary is some kind of correction to US health care? I’ve seen 2 articles recently on people cutting down on doctors visits and meds due to the economy. getting chest pains? it may just be heartburn, so don’t go to the doctor unless you KNOW you’re having a heart attack …
GtG -
EXPAT your just a closet socialist.
nope. I believe in a regulated market and I believe in people paying for the services they use. but thanks for playing.
By GLue Gun
October 22, 2008 9:08 AM | Link to this
EXPAT? What part of socialist don’t you understand? Maybe you are just stupid? Is that it! Read your own posts Ms. Marx!
By USinUK
October 22, 2008 9:23 AM | Link to this
awwwwwwww … we have a newbie on the board trying to be cute …
GlueGun, I suggest you learn a little about economics - corporations paying taxes is not socialism. YOU paying your taxes isn’t socialism. All of us receiving government services (even health care) in exchange for those taxes isn’t socialism.
but thanks for playing.
By Gale
October 22, 2008 9:55 AM | Link to this
Obama’s casual comment about “spreading the wealth around” makes me very anxious about his philosophy. I may be voting ‘none of the above’ for president, but I am voting republican for congress.
By USinUK
October 22, 2008 10:07 AM | Link to this
Gale -
Obama’s casual comment about “spreading the wealth around” makes me very anxious about his philosophy.
again, what do you think the GOP has been doing over the last 7+ years? only they’ve been robbing from the middle class and giving to the rich in the form of tax cuts.
By Gale
October 22, 2008 10:21 AM | Link to this
I know what you are saying, USinUK. It is a matter of perspective. There havve always been war profiteers, and there will always be as long as there are wars. Bush is an oil man, as is Cheny. They did exactly what I expected. I could never understand why anyone would have voted for him. I will do what I have done for the last 7+ years after elections. Grit my teeth and hope for the best.
The Reagan ideal of money to the rich finding its way to the middle class in the way of jobs is laudable. It was offset by profit motives that sent those jobs out of the country and did not benefit the middle class. We are mired in narrow margin leadership that does nothing but try to block the other party so they can increase their lead in the next election. Gridlock in congress, more than the president’s failings have led us into this mess.
By USinUK
October 22, 2008 10:31 AM | Link to this
Gale -
I will do what I have done for the last 7+ years after elections. Grit my teeth and hope for the best.
as we all will. however, voting for a GOP congresscritter??? I gotta ask you - what has the GOP ever done for you as a woman? more to the point, what has the GOP done for you as a gay woman?
chicken/col. sanders … that’s all I’m saying.
By Gale
October 22, 2008 10:40 AM | Link to this
So, USinUK, have you seen any of the bus ads for atheism? It would be very cool to see that take off. We need to blunt the power of religion in politics.
By Gale
October 22, 2008 10:50 AM | Link to this
I want to pull my blanket over my head and ignore the whole thing. As long as we are in thrall to a two-party system and religion has so much political power in our separation of church and state country, neither women’s rights nor gay rights are likely to get anything but negative attention. These are divisive issue meant to incite the ramble so they don’t notice the war, the economy, or the fact that our government does very little except for campaign for the next election.
By USinUK
October 22, 2008 10:55 AM | Link to this
Gale -
So, USinUK, have you seen any of the bus ads for atheism? It would be very cool to see that take off. We need to blunt the power of religion in politics.
have only seen the mock-ups in the newspaper articles … I think the ad is brilliant! “Stop worrying and enjoy life” … good advice for all of us, whether you believe in God or not! (personally, as I do believe in God, I don’t think the two are mutually exclusive - I think you can believe in God AND enjoy life at the same time … but that’s just me … I’m a rebel)
what do you think about it all??? do they still have those God billboards they used to have on I-85? (they were all in black with white writing - things like “stop taking my name in vain”) could you imagine an atheist board interspersed? baahahaha … that’d make the SoBap heads e’splode!
By USinUK
October 22, 2008 11:01 AM | Link to this
Gale -
As long as we are in thrall to a two-party system and religion has so much political power in our separation of church and state country, neither women’s rights nor gay rights are likely to get anything but negative attention
well … a 2-party system is what we’ve got and a 2-party system is what we’ll always have. Even here in the UK, for all intents and purposes, we have a 2-party system (Labour and Tory) - yeah, we have Greens and LibDems and others, but really, they’re so fringe-y as to be ineffective.
ya gotta look at which party works for you. And, honey, the GOP doesn’t work for we wimmen or for the gay community.
By Gale
October 22, 2008 11:13 AM | Link to this
Yes, the billboards still abound. The current mix we see on our drive between Atlanta and Orlando is religion and Cafe Ero_tica. ( I don’t know if the ajc censor would strick that one.) It’s trucker heaven.
By Can't Win if you Don't Play
October 22, 2008 11:13 AM | Link to this
Gale, why don’t YOU run for office? You remind me of Nader, bashing the two-party system, which I agree is flawed on many levels, not the least of which is the role of money in our electoral process. Nader supporters go on and on about how they’re holding on to their integrity by not voting Obama or McCain, and I hear the same from a few (but not many) former Hillary supporters. But in the end, withholding your vote (or throwing it away) is about as useful as a wife withholding the goods from her horndog husband. “You can’t cut me off, you don’t know where I’m getting it.” It’s your right, but it doesn’t do any good. In January, either the Republican or the Democratic candidate will be sworn in. Standing outside the system saying “this sux” isn’t going to change that. My advice to you, Ralph Nader, and all the angry don’t-wanna-play voters out there is to stop b!tching and run for a LOCAL seat where you actually might have a chance to win and get the power to decide something. Work your own way through our flawed system where you might actually effect meaningful change someday, to the benefit of us all. Thanks for listening, and LET US KNOW if you do. I’ll be happy to work your campaign!
By Gale
October 22, 2008 11:24 AM | Link to this
I want to move to another planet!
By Gale
October 22, 2008 11:32 AM | Link to this
Can’t Win if you Don’t Play:
Yes, I understand what you are saying. We see so many sensible, qualified people who will not abuse themselves or their families with the campaign process. I’ll quit whining. But I still want to move to a different planet.
By USinUK
October 22, 2008 11:33 AM | Link to this
Gale -
I want to move to another planet!
nah. think of all the fun you’d miss HERE!
By The Other Jack
October 22, 2008 11:36 AM | Link to this
Newzwyre
It’s bad enough that Jon Stewart and other comedians have been the propaganda arm for the DNC, but the really sad thing is you are posting the rantings of a biased comedian on a political forum with the expectations of credibility. And we wonder why so many of our citizens are completely clueless as to what is going on in Washington.
JustaJew
I am waiting on the day when you muster the courage to address me for what I say instead of gossiping like an old hen.
Bruno
Hey man, I wasn’t taking a beating. I was setting in front of an editing computer from the time I posted that until 1 AM. It is getting cold here and my daily walk didn’t happen until my brain went to a test pattern at 1AM. The leaves have changed and it is really beautiful here now.
Yes, Obama is as slick as they come. He is yet to deny that his entire plan is to redistribute wealth.
The media has gone into a complete, no holds barred attack mode, throwing any semblance of fairness out the window. The NBC Nightly News has become nothing but one vicious attack after another, siting Sarah Palin and her running mate, John McCain. Comedy Central has gone into full on Goebbels propaganda mode and that nonsense is even showing up on here and other political blogs.
But as I have said, it will take two more years of a Pelosi/Reed Congress before we reach the bottom so you might as well set back and enjoy the ride. We had to gag on liberalism from 92 to 94, but the result was the Gingrich Revolution, whose stance created a complete television market for me and other small film makers on PBS (for God’s sake) and allowed me to acquire great health insurance at a reasonable rate with the medical savings plan. Gas price increases remained below the rate of inflation until we lost control of Congress after the beating that the liberal media gave us about phone taps and Iraq. Of course Bahgdad is now more peaceful than most of our major cities and we have still not suffered a major attack. Could it be that the phones taps are working to protect out citizens? Say it ain’t so.
It looks like a couple of people want to lecture me about not caring about the phone taps. One person spoke of the KKK and compared what they did with phone taps. I have ceased to be astonished at what people will say. I once saw a picture of about twenty people that were hanging in trees along the banks of the Mississippi. They had been hung by the KKK. As this guy compared that to phone taps. Logic went away with the teacher’s unions taking over our schools.
Let’s see what happens next year when our CIA becomes a much more gentler and understanding establishment. I’m just glad there is a range of hills between my house and downtown that will act as a very nice blast shield.
Remember, it is all about Congress. The President does very little.
USinUK
Any majority, no matter how small puts control of the Congress in the hands of the majority. That means the head of the two houses are Democrats. That person controls the proceedings and it is up to them as to allowing votes. Brainless pelosi adjourned when she didn’t like the way the energy discussion was going. There is nothing more powerful than having the ability to send everyone home when things aren’t going your way.
Also, the vast majority of lobby money always goes to the majority. So the Democrats have control of the money and complete power of the process, but you claim they have none or vvery little responsibility for the mess that has happened since they took over.
I wouldn’t mind the democrats being in power if they took responsibility for the nation’s condition while they are in power. You work in finances and whether you admit it or not, a great deal of investments involve confidence in the government. You might want to ignore the fact that a perfect parallel can be drawn between Obama’s lead in the polls and the decline of the stock market. The wider the margin, the lower the DOW. Don’t forget, my ex is a broker and she talks about this all the time. There is no confidence in the prospect of having the most liberal government since 1932.
On a brighter note, the leaves have finally completely changed here and it is stunning. I can see lots from my motel room and I am still picking up shots every day so I do get to get out and enjoy at least some of the scenery.
Now you guys go crazy and attack me for what i believe. it is what politics are all about, isn’t it?
By Can't Win if you Don't Play
October 22, 2008 11:39 AM | Link to this
Do you have a specific planet in mind? One where we can grow fresh ‘maters in the Summer? Do tell! I’m feelin’ you, but running away and hiding under the blanket fixes nothing. Don’t think I’m not feelin’ you. I so totally am!! But there comes a day when you have to separate what you can’t control from what you can. Local government IS something you can change. It’s not glamorous, and your suppporters won’t buy you $150K worth of hip new fashion to strut around in, but local issues are real, and affect the lives of real people in our own communities. Why not turn off the TV and start talking to people where you live? Maybe you CAN make a difference after all, if not by running for office yourself, through your involvement with something else meaningful. “BE the change… yadda yadda…”
Okay, leaving you in peace now.
By The Other Jack
October 22, 2008 11:45 AM | Link to this
One more thing
Personal privacy demands from democrats would hold a lot more credibility if I didn’t get spam from the Obama camp saying that if I wanted a list of everyone in my area that hadn’t registered, that they would send the list to me, no questions asked.
It may be perfectly legal, but it is, without a doubt an invasion of people’s personal privacy.
But then again, what is a person’s personal privacy when it just might mean a vote or two for a Democrat. The hypocrisy is staggering.
By USinUK
October 22, 2008 12:06 PM | Link to this
TOJ -
You work in finances and whether you admit it or not, a great deal of investments involve confidence in the government. You might want to ignore the fact that a perfect parallel can be drawn between Obama’s lead in the polls and the decline of the stock market.
bollocks. the volatility in the marketplace directly corresponds with economic releases (employment, housing, consumer spending, retail, confidence, FED decisions) PLUS earnings releases. today, Merck released dismal numbers and the Dow dropped 300.
fact is, the market does well when a DEM is in office:
http:// money. cnn. com/2004/01/21/markets/election_demsvreps/
According to their paper, entitled, “The Presidential Puzzle: Political Cycles and the Stock Market” and published in the October issue of the Journal of Finance, stock market returns are on average about 5 percent higher when the White House is run by a Democrat than during Republican rule.
Looking at the 72-year period between 1927 and 1999, the study shows that a broad stock index, similar to the S&P 500, returned approximately 11 percent more a year on average under a Democratic president versus safer, three-month Treasurys. By comparison, the index only returned 2 percent more a year versus the T-bills when Republicans were in office.
On a brighter note, the leaves have finally completely changed here and it is stunning. I can see lots from my motel room and I am still picking up shots every day so I do get to get out and enjoy at least some of the scenery.
aaaahhhhh … autumn in VA … gosh, how I miss it …
By USinUK
October 22, 2008 12:18 PM | Link to this
TOJ -
if I wanted a list of everyone in my area that hadn’t registered, that they would send the list to me, no questions asked
first of all, that makes absolutely NO SENSE - how would they have a list of people who aren’t registered????
secondly - please. I’m on all kinds of Dem lists and I haven’t seen that one. so, I’m not saying you’re making it up … I’m just saying that has a certain essence of bollocks to it.
It may be perfectly legal, but it is, without a doubt an invasion of people’s personal privacy.
lastly … OMFG!!! that you can’t grasp the difference between the government LISTENING TO YOUR CALLS WITHOUT GOING THROUGH PROPER JUDICIAL CHANNELS and a private individual/organization asking you if you want to buy a mailing list … wow … that’s just scary.
By Bruno
October 22, 2008 12:25 PM | Link to this
Howdy, gang. Hope everyone is surviving the negative media blitz about the economy. They’ve been claiming we are in a recession since March, although the economic numbers have never supported their claim. Even now, there was an increase in “consumer confidence” in September, though you wouldn’t know it based on the nightly news reports. Is the stock market in the tank right now?? Yes, but deservedly so. For those of you who have taken a big hit on your 401Ks and IRAs, my advice is to hunker down and ride it out. It’s only a loss if you sell now. Hopefully some of you heeded my advice late last year to sel, sell, sell before the big losses settled in. I’m hanging on to my two remaining properties until the market improves.
By It's funny cuz it's REAL
October 22, 2008 12:27 PM | Link to this
“It’s bad enough that Jon Stewart and other comedians have been the propaganda arm for the DNC, but the really sad thing is you are posting the rantings of a biased comedian on a political forum with the expectations of credibility.”
The commentary you reference above was based on REAL words from the mouths of REAL Republicans about their ideas of “REAL America.” All of Jon Stewart’s jokes are based on what the politicians (both Republican AND Democrat) actually said or did. Example: McCain blasted Obama for stroking both Phillies and Devil Ray fans. (Joke: “After you call somebody a terroist, calling them a fair-weather fan just doesn’t hurt…”) Then Stewart showed clips of Palin doing the same exact thing in Tampa, Philly, and also Boston. (“Triple play!”)
See how that works? The material writes itself, Dude. Only good ol’ fascist CENSORSHIP can make that go away. Is that what you want, Dude?
By Gandalf, the Rainbow Warrior
October 22, 2008 12:30 PM | Link to this
I’d vote for Gale for mayor of Atlantonia! YEAH GALE! If she does good, Governor of GA, the President, but only if she can shoot wolves from a fast moving chopper!
By Bruno
October 22, 2008 12:39 PM | Link to this
first of all i agree with shaunti because in the bible it does say that witchery is a form of evil and it is a sin and anyone who is a true christian should know this. holloween is the celebration of the day of the dead when ghouls and ghost rise from their graves and haunt the land if it were’nt so evil why do you think that they dress as dead people with blood dripping from there masks or why do you think they put up skeletons and scare the little kids aways some of you should pick up your bible before you even text in these outrageous things
Am I the only one who wonders if any of these so-called “true Christians” who spout off about inane things like Halloween realize how asinine they sound?? Especially when they celebrate obvious pagan holidays like Easter and Christmas and think that they are holy days.
Also, anyone willing to venture a guess as to whether chuck will publicly admit that he is wrong about the Bible authorizing the changing of the Sabbbath from Saturday to Sunday? Personally, I’m not holding my breath since, to my recollection, he has never publicly admitted to being wrong about any issue. Normally, I would simply chalk that trait up to simple arrogance, but in chuck’s case I think it actually crosses the line into megomaniacal insanity considering he argues that we should consider the Bible to be a “literal document” when reading obvious fables such as Noah’s Ark, yet is happy to extrapolate Jesus’s blessing to the changing of the Sabbath in spite of all evidence to the contrary.
Nothing personal, chuck, but you are a nut job.
By USinUK
October 22, 2008 12:46 PM | Link to this
Brunooooooooooooooo -
They’ve been claiming we are in a recession since March, although the economic numbers have never supported their claim.
we’ve had this discussion umpteen times before this - most people don’t use the standard “2 quarters of negative growth” definition anymore - they use economic data. You get a bunch of negative economic data going on (growing unemployment, shrinking retail, etc), and the econ geeks define it as a recession.
From Wiki: The U.S. based National Bureau of Economic Research (NBER) defines a recession more broadly as “a significant decline in economic activity spread across the economy, lasting more than a few months, normally visible in real GDP, real income, employment, industrial production, and wholesale-retail sales.”
additionally, Q407 GDP was revised down into negative territory a few months ago … and, considering that every quarter for the past 2.5 years was revised downward at the same time, I’d bet that Q108 growth (currently at 0.9%) will be revised downward, as well, as the retail numbers continue to be refined.
so, in other words, you’ll not only get your NBER definition of a recession, you’ll get the more textbook/old school definition, as well.
Even now, there was an increase in “consumer confidence” in September, though you wouldn’t know it based on the nightly news reports.
if you want to have fun with graphs, chart the avg. price of gas at the pumps with consumer confidence. there’s a nearly proportional inverse relationship between the two. Gas prices fell during September, so of course consumer confidence went up.
I’m hanging on to my two remaining properties until the market improves.
very wise of you!
By Bruno
October 22, 2008 1:15 PM | Link to this
Hey man, I wasn’t taking a beating.
What I meant is that the whole board seemed focused against you yesterday. I wasn’t saying that I agreed with them. Of course, from the little I know about you, you seem to thrive on that kind of adversity. David vs. Goliath, you vs. the world. Any truth to that?
I believe in a regulated market and I believe in people paying for the services they use. but thanks for playing.
USinUK, as much as I love you, I think that the “socialist” label DOES apply to you in regards to your support for government-administered, taxpayer-funded health care. If you truly believe in personal privacy and in “people paying for the services they use”, I have difficulty understanding your position re: health care. Certainly there are problems with our non-market driven health care system, but I don’t see anything being solved by bringing Big Brother into the picture. BTW, Neal Boortz recently mentioned a proposal in the UK by which health care workers would have the right to cut to the front of the line to receive their OWN health care, bypassing the normally long waiting periods for tests like MRIs and CT scans. I suspect that that kind of double-standard exists in all government-run health care systems, but is kept quiet. I doubt if Mao received the same type of health care as the “masses” while he was alive.
By Gale
October 22, 2008 1:19 PM | Link to this
first of all, that makes absolutely NO SENSE - how would they have a list of people who aren’t registered????
It isn’t all that hard. I did it in the 80s. My employer was a big Dem supporter and we did some work fro them. Take the tax lists, match that to the regesterd voter list. What falls out is unregistered. Easy.
Gandalf, not wolves. Maybe wompas. And I want a laser rifle. The recoil from a shotgun while moving is hard on the muscles.
By Bruno
October 22, 2008 1:23 PM | Link to this
The Reagan ideal of money to the rich finding its way to the middle class in the way of jobs is laudable. It was offset by profit motives that sent those jobs out of the country and did not benefit the middle class. We are mired in narrow margin leadership that does nothing but try to block the other party so they can increase their lead in the next election. Gridlock in congress, more than the president’s failings have led us into this mess.
Gale—If you can stand even one more compliment from me, I think that you display a wisdom and fairness that is conspicuously absent from most other posters’ POVs. You appear to seek understanding of where we are without all of the one-sided finger-pointing based on political party affiliation. Thanks again for your input on W2W.
By Gandalf, the Gr
October 22, 2008 1:29 PM | Link to this
Just like a liberal to change the definition of a word to suit her needs (Yes, I used the feminine).
By Gandalf, the Grey
October 22, 2008 1:29 PM | Link to this
Just like a liberal to change the definition of a word to suit her needs (Yes, I used the feminine).
By Bruno
October 22, 2008 1:31 PM | Link to this
My GF revealed an interesting tidbit to me last night. Although she is now supporting McCain, she revealed that she sent $2000 to support Hillary’s campaign earlier this year! I busted her when I noticed that she had “GA Dem” mailing address labels on some bills she asked me to take to te post office. How I keep ending up with these Lib GFs the past two years is a mystery to me. Fortunately, she doesn’t waste her breath rambling on and on about how e-e-evil Bush is. In general, we don’t spend much time talking politics. Fortunately, we both have other, more pressing common interests. (wink, wink)
By Gale
October 22, 2008 1:39 PM | Link to this
Bruno, thanks. I sure wish I could find a wise choice in this election.
By USinUK
October 22, 2008 1:44 PM | Link to this
Bruno -
USinUK, as much as I love you, I think that the “socialist” label DOES apply to you in regards to your support for government-administered, taxpayer-funded health care. If you truly believe in personal privacy and in “people paying for the services they use”, I have difficulty understanding your position re: health care
I think there’s a place for capitalism in wants and needs (want: car / need: food - but, even then, government steps in by way of price regulations such as milk, overseeing utility prices, etc) … and a place for government to step in in regards to life and death (defense, policing, fire protection - these things aren’t left to the “free market” to make work).
Frankly, the current health care system is so far gone, it needs radical overhauling. If you want to use TOJ’s system of no insurance, you pay for what you use, I humbly suggest that medical-related bankruptcies will skyrocket. If you want to use a single-payer system of working through the government (which is something like 1/7th the administrative cost of private health insurance companies), then of course there will be problems with that, too.
No system is perfect. And I’m not here saying the NIH is perfect. However, meds are cheaper, you can see a doctor or go to a hospital without going bankrupt. If you want to “top up” with private insurance, you can - but if you’re a minimum-wage laborer, you’re not left out in the cold, working full-time but still unable to afford good insurance.
Hey - if you have a suggestion for how EVERYone can afford to see a doctor or get necessary meds that doesn’t involve the gummint, I’m all ears. However, I just can’t see it happening.
I’m on my way home - be back online in about an hour or so
By Bruno
October 22, 2008 1:45 PM | Link to this
Gotta run and catch up on the morning’s paperwork, but I hope to hear from JokesOn today if you are listening in. You challenged me to find an independent, third-party analysis of both McCain’s and Obama’s stated tax plans to see which would result in a greater tax burden for me. I don’t really have the time or energy to do a lot of googling, so was hoping you could provide some kind of a link. Right off the bat, however, Obama is proposing a doubling of the capital gains tax which would be a HUGE burden on me when I (hopefully) sell one of my properties next year. In addition, I agree strongly with TOJ that the campagin rhetoric is not to be believed anyway ala Bill Clinton. Obama apparently believes that the government has all the answers and should run our lives from cradle to grave, which translates into higher taxes in my mind. I’m still extremely unhappy with McCain’s proposal to bail out individual homeowners from “bad” mortgages through renegotiating the principal owed on the properties. As far as your friend who is facing difficult times with his mortgage, I have no problem with renegotiating interest rates, especially if there was a significant increase since the inception of the loan. As for renegotiating the actual principal balance owed, no way Jose.
If McCain ends up losing this election, I think he has no one to blame but himself. He has run one of the poorest campaigns I have seen in a long time, and doesn’t deserve to win. Still, he remains the “lesser of the two evils” in my book, and will be receiving my vote in two weeks.
One last comment: On the verge of one of the most important elections in a long time, why in the world did Andrea choose such a lame topic this week. Unless they want their post numbers to continue to decline, I suggest that the ladies come up with a more germane subject for next week.
By Gale
October 22, 2008 1:47 PM | Link to this
Bruno, does your GF know how easy it is to write-in a candidate for president? I’m just sayin’.
By Bruno
October 22, 2008 1:50 PM | Link to this
Bruno, thanks. I sure wish I could find a wise choice in this election.
Me too, my friend.
One last tidbit from Neil Boortz this AM: Obama is claiming that McCain “voted with George Bush 90% of the time”. Quite a claim, since Bush hasn’t actually voted on anything.
By USinUK
October 22, 2008 1:50 PM | Link to this
GtG -
Just like a liberal to change the definition of a word to suit her needs (Yes, I used the feminine
if that was directed at me regarding the definition of recession, I’m sorry that the facts don’t stack in your direction.
but, facts they are. it’s the NBER definition, not mine, and it’s what most analysts use, as well.
however, like I said, when the numbers are revised next year, Q108 will most likely fall into negative growth, thus satisfying even you.
By Third Grader with a Question
October 22, 2008 2:09 PM | Link to this
….Obama is claiming that McCain “voted with George Bush 90% of the time”. Quite a claim, since Bush hasn’t actually voted on anything.
So, President Bush never tells members of the Senate whether he’s in favor or, or opposed to a bill that’s coming up for a vote? How does he affect policy, then? Oh, that’s right. It’s the VICE President’s job to “be in charge of the Senate, and get in there and implement policy changes.” Especially with all that “flexibility” our Constitution offers regarding “more authority” to the Vice President’s position, that’s just waiting to be taken advantage of. HAHAHAHA!
By JokesOn
October 22, 2008 2:17 PM | Link to this
USinUK, as much as I love you, I think that the “socialist” label DOES apply to you in regards to your support for government-administered, taxpayer-funded health care. If you truly believe in personal privacy and in “people paying for the services they use”, I have difficulty understanding your position re: health care.
Dog, FYI - I support a government regulated healthcare system where private companies compete for customers. I think that Obamas plan is only a step or two in that direction and will need refining over time. McCain’s plan is just a shell game using the components we currently have (which suck) and is not thought out at all.
By Gandalf, the Grey
October 22, 2008 2:21 PM | Link to this
I claim neither wisdom nor fairness. Those are overrated if that’s what the JackA$$ party used to choose thier canidates. Gale! I was thinking an M-4 like our troops use over in Iraqistan! Hardly any kick and farily accurate. Any Shotgun would have too short a range from a chopper. EXPAT come out of the closet! Let the world know your are a socialist! YEAH!
By Bruno
October 22, 2008 2:28 PM | Link to this
By Third Grader with a Question
Sorry, Third Grader (aka Another “real” American aka Can’t Win if you Don’t Play aka It’s funny cuz it’s REAL), I don’t have permission to directly address you, despite the fact that it is a public blog. Quite a shame, since you often have very interesting (albeit politically one-sided) things to say.
By Gandalf, the Grey
October 22, 2008 2:34 PM | Link to this
JOKESON why don’t you go to the airport, the one name for corruption, evaluate the security in ‘da place, determine if you want the same people talking care of your health care, then get a one way ticket to France! Maybe they like seasoned 8th graders there! Viva la change! Jokeson to Paris ‘08!
By Bruno
October 22, 2008 2:38 PM | Link to this
Dog, FYI - I support a government regulated healthcare system where private companies compete for customers. I think that Obamas plan is only a step or two in that direction and will need refining over time. McCain’s plan is just a shell game using the components we currently have (which suck) and is not thought out at all.
At the risk of repetition, I support a health care system in which true market forces are promoted—i.e. pay-as-you-go for routine doctor’s visits with insurance only for catastrophic losses. There certainly is plenty of room for more competition re: drug prices as well. This is the only way to bring the prices back in line with reality without massive government involvement, which I think would be a disaster based on my experiences in trying to work with Medicare.
Any links comparing Obama’s and McCain’s tax proposals? (Not that I believe a word either one of them is saying right now)
By Gale
October 22, 2008 2:42 PM | Link to this
Why can’t I have a laser rifle, Gandalf? No kick at all and the targeting dot means I can’t miss.
By Bruno
October 22, 2008 2:43 PM | Link to this
I claim neither wisdom nor fairness.
Don’t worry, Gandalf, I doubt seriously if anyone is trying to hang those labels on you.
Maybe they like seasoned 8th graders there!
BTW, I’m picking JokesOn over Gandalf by TKO in the third round in your upcoming WWF match. That is unless Gandalf’s manager, the fabled “Grand Wizard of Wrestling”, doesn’t whack Jokes with a chair first.
By Gale
October 22, 2008 2:51 PM | Link to this
Oh wait, Gandalf. I want to use a targeting lock, not a targeting dot. Paint the target, lock on, and fire. No miss ever. That’s what I’m talking about! Uh, wolves, you say? No, no. I thought you were talking about Orcs. No, no. I can’t shoot wolves. They have an important place in the environment. Sorry.
By chuck
October 22, 2008 3:19 PM | Link to this
Also, anyone willing to venture a guess as to whether chuck will publicly admit that he is wrong about the Bible authorizing the changing of the Sabbbath from Saturday to Sunday?
Brudog, maybe you did not read the post carefully, but I gave 3 references that did just that. I don’t often admit that I’m wrong, because I’m almost always right. Here they are just in case you forgot:
First in Romans chapter 14:5-6
5 One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.
6 He that regardeth the day, regardeth it unto the Lord; and he that regardeth not the day, to the Lord he doth not regard it. He that eateth, eateth to the Lord, for he giveth God thanks; and he that eateth not, to the Lord he eateth not, and giveth God thanks.
Colossians 2: 15 And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it.
16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:
GALATIANS 4:9 But now, after that ye have known God, or rather are known of God, how turn ye again to the weak and beggarly elements, whereunto ye desire again to be in bondage?
10 Ye observe days, and months, and times, and years.
Clearly in these passages, the Bible teaches that it is a matter of religious liberty to CHOOSE which day would be honored. It doesn’t do away with the Sabbath, but clearly gives leeway as to which days would be observed. This would also apply to “religious holidays.”
BTW, Brudog, the “Sabbath” was observed by the Jews on the 7th day of the week. That does not necessarily mean that it can ONLY BE OBSERVED on the 7th day of the week. As Jesus said, “The Sabbath was made FOR MAN and NOT MAN FOR THE SABBATH.”
The word itself simply means “day of rest”. It does not specify a particular day, but A PATTERN of work and rest. That pattern is irrevocable, because it IS A COMMANDMENT. The day of observation was a matter of tradition and that traditioned changed soon after the resurrection. NOT 300 years later as you said.
Writings of many early Christians bear this out, including Ignatious a first century church archbishop, Barnabus who traveled with Paul, Eusebius and Didache who both wrote histories of the early church. It’s not a matter of “gotcha”, it’s a matter of history AND Scripture.
By Gandalf, the Grey
October 22, 2008 3:20 PM | Link to this
That this nation, under God, shall have a new birth of freedom—and that government of the people, by the people, for the people, shall not perish from the earth. Word for thought from the Father of the Republican Party.
By chuck
October 22, 2008 3:23 PM | Link to this
BTW, this was one of the best explanations of this change in days and it comes from the First/second Century A.D.:
Justin Martyr (c. 100-165 A.D.) lived during the reign of Antonius Pius and suffered martyrdom in 165 A.D. during the reign of Marcus Aurelius. He was an enthusiastic evangelist of the Gospel, and after traveling widely throughout the Roman Empire settled in Rome as a Christian teacher. While there, neighboring philosophers plotted against him because of his Christian profession, brought him up before the Roman authorities, who carried out his execution by beheading him.
The First Apology of Justin, Chapter 67 “And on the day called Sunday, all who live in cities or in the country gather together to one place, and the memoirs of the apostles or the writings of the prophets are read, as long as time permits; then, when the reader has ceased, the president verbally instructs, and exhorts to the imitation of these good things … But Sunday is the day on which we all hold our common assembly, because it is the first day on which God, having wrought a change in the darkness and matter, made the world; and Jesus Christ our Savior on the same day rose from the dead.”
By Gandalf, the Grey
October 22, 2008 3:48 PM | Link to this
OK, I’ll only vote for you as high as Govenor Gale, sorry! Laser Lock is a very sexy technology! We had it on the last generation of Bradleys I served on. Way kewl to lock on to several targets, assign one to the gunner, watch him shoot that one, hit a button, slew to the next target and watch the gunner destroy it! If he is missing, taking over and getting the kill personally! Wow, what a vehicle!
By Gandalf, the Grey
October 22, 2008 3:48 PM | Link to this
OK, I’ll only vote for you as high as Govenor Gale, sorry! Laser Lock is a very sexy technology! We had it on the last generation of Bradleys I served on. Way kewl to lock on to several targets, assign one to the gunner, watch him shoot that one, hit a button, slew to the next target and watch the gunner destroy it! If he is missing, taking over and getting the kill personally! Wow, what a vehicle!
By Gandalf, the Rastafarian
October 22, 2008 3:51 PM | Link to this
I don’t care what the white mon say, Jesus was a black mon!
By Gandalf, the Grey
October 22, 2008 4:00 PM | Link to this
GWW won’t be needed Bruno! I will Womp that silly little 8th grader’s backside in the first. TKO? I think not! The Grey shorted one is 19-3 (with 11 KO’s) in the ring. Was a long time ago, but I still punch like a mule, and still like it!
By Bruno
October 22, 2008 4:01 PM | Link to this
I don’t often admit that I’m wrong, because I’m almost always right.
I’ll let the others here decide if you are simply arrogant or, more likely, insane, chuck. I have my own opinion, of course.
The word itself simply means “day of rest”. It does not specify a particular day, but A PATTERN of work and rest. That pattern is irrevocable, because it IS A COMMANDMENT. The day of observation was a matter of tradition and that traditioned changed soon after the resurrection. NOT 300 years later as you said
As I laid out for you, the “pattern” you speak of was established in Genesis 2:1 and remained unchanged throughout the Bible all the way through Revelation. All of the Biblical patriarchs, Jesus himself, and all of the Apostles continued this pattern. Never is it changed, within the Bible itself. Obviously, at some point, some group of men decided to change the Sabbath via a “new tradition”. Church history indicates that it was “officially” changed approximately 300 years following Christ, not in the years immediately following Christ’s death. Furthermore, my reading of Matthew 15:8-9 suggests that it is not within mortal man’s power to arbitrarily change one of the Ten Commandments, though you seem to think that that is acceptable.
Again, I don’t really care what day of the week you and your fellow fake “Christians” want to designate as the Sabbath. Just don’t claim that it is Biblically based. Ditto for Easter and Christmas.
By Bruno
October 22, 2008 4:08 PM | Link to this
I don’t care what the white mon say, Jesus was a black mon!
Furthermore, Jesus was, and will forever remain, a Jew. He NEVER promoted the idea of starting a “new” religion which was separate from Judaism. You wouldn’t know that based on the amount of anti-Semitism slung around at churches like the one chuck attends.
BTW, chuck, I have been extremely fortunate to meet and work with many people over the years who I consider to be “true Christians”. Unlike you, they are all humble people who freely admit to being imperfect people who are sinful by nature.
By Bruno
October 22, 2008 4:13 PM | Link to this
The Grey shorted one is 19-3 (with 11 KO’s) in the ring.
We used to mix it up with boxing gloves as well, Gandalf. I hve only one KO to my credit, and was fortunately never knocked out myself. My problem as a boxer was tha I never had the “killer instinct”. When I got someone in trouble, I never had the heart to “go in for the kill”. I guess I’m a softy at heart.
By Gandalf, the Grey
October 22, 2008 4:18 PM | Link to this
Christianity isn’t a religion! It’s a faith! Silly Black Jew started it all by dying for his people! Silly Jew’s had him killed! Silly Pilot washed his hands and sealed his fate! CHUCK/BRUNO GO TO CHURCH ON WED IF YOU LIKE! THE WORSHIP OF JESUS ISN’T DONE ON SABBATH DAYS, IT’S DONE AS JOURNEY. Now stop arguing over nothing and get in here on some important stuff! HOW LONG YOU THING THE ANCIENT 8th GRADER WOULD LAST AGAINST HE WHO WIELDS THE BIG STAFF! Bruno says the grade school driver would take me in 3 by TKO, what say ye Chuck?
By Gandalf, the Grey
October 22, 2008 4:27 PM | Link to this
I didn’t challenge you to a WWE style match Brundog! I didn’t challenge anyone! Just love a good fight, that’s all! I got most my KOs by getting in trouble and hooking from the ropes or corner, counter punching was my specialty.
By Bruno
October 22, 2008 4:33 PM | Link to this
Christianity isn’t a religion! It’s a faith!
It may have started as a faith, but it (sadly) morphed into a mega-church religion somewhere along the way.
CHUCK/BRUNO GO TO CHURCH ON WED IF YOU LIKE! THE WORSHIP OF JESUS ISN’T DONE ON SABBATH DAYS, IT’S DONE AS JOURNEY
For me, church is wherever “two or three gather in My name”, as Jesus suggested. I have no use for organized services with choirs and collection plates. I’m a free-lancer.
HOW LONG YOU THING THE ANCIENT 8th GRADER WOULD LAST AGAINST HE WHO WIELDS THE BIG STAFF!
Don’t underestimate the Jokester, Gandalf.
By Bruno
October 22, 2008 4:38 PM | Link to this
I didn’t challenge you to a WWE style match Brundog! I didn’t challenge anyone! Just love a good fight, that’s all! I got most my KOs by getting in trouble and hooking from the ropes or corner, counter punching was my specialty.
I’m not much of a boxing fan these days for several reasons, but I was excited to see that Bernard Hopkins gave a sound whipping to Pavlik last week. Us old guys have to stick together. I though it was a class move for him to compliment Pavlik after the fight despite thouroughly humiliating him in the ring.
By Aphrodite
October 22, 2008 6:35 PM | Link to this
Watch Chuck go! Just proof they can twist the words of those old uneducated (relatively) Jews/Christians to mean whatever they want them to mean.
By USinUK
October 23, 2008 8:42 AM | Link to this
man … I leave for a coupla hours and it turns into W2W CAGE MATCH - with a side of Sunday school.
Bruno -
I have no use for organized services with choirs and collection plates. I’m a free-lancer.
I’m right there next to you, my friend … too much politics in religion these days (and too danged much religion in politics, as well) …
Gale -
It isn’t all that hard. I did it in the 80s. My employer was a big Dem supporter and we did some work fro them. Take the tax lists, match that to the regesterd voter list. What falls out is unregistered. Easy.
oh, yeah. that’s exactly what the Obama campaign is doing these days - selling databases. like I said - I’m on the mailing lists for Obama, the DNC and the DCCC (as well as a few of my favorite issue organizations) - never. not even once. have I ever been approached BY THEM to buy a list from them.
like I said … this story has the essence of bollocks.
By Gale
October 23, 2008 8:49 AM | Link to this
I read an article about non-citizen voting this morning. I am flat against it and I wonder what everyone else thinks about it.
By Gale
October 23, 2008 8:57 AM | Link to this
I wouldn’t think Obama would have to sell anything. He seems to have people throwing money at him.
By USinUK
October 23, 2008 8:58 AM | Link to this
Gale -
I read an article about non-citizen voting this morning. I am flat against it and I wonder what everyone else thinks about it.
not having read the same article, I don’t really know your context when you talk about “non-citizen” voting.
illegal immigrants? obviously against it. (and all for deporting the wankers - if my husband and I can jump through flaming hoops to move to another country, they can, too, dangit)
however, what about people who legally live and work in the States and pay US taxes (which you have to do even if you are a foreign national)? don’t they have just as much of a stake in who is elected as those who are citizens? my uber-boss is a UK citizen but has lived, worked and paid taxes in NYC for more than 12 years - why shouldn’t she have a say in - at the very least - local elections?
point of interest - here in the UK, I’m allowed to vote in local council elections, but not national.
By Gandalf, the Grey
October 23, 2008 9:18 AM | Link to this
BECAUSE ONLY CITIZENS ARE ALLOWED TO VOTE! Hang your red star proudly Expat. Why can’t dead people vote then? Or felons?
By Jason in ATL
October 23, 2008 9:30 AM | Link to this
Once again Shaunti has the more balanced opinion. I never understand Liberals like Andrea…on the one hand, they preach tolerance, but on the other they constantly denigrate (or in this case question) people who have other beliefs.
If someone doesn’t want to celebrate Halloween, it’s not your place to question that decision.
Our fam celebrates it and, regardless of its original purpose, have made it a safe and fun holiday for our fam. But I know people who don’t celebrate and I respect their choice as well.
It’s time for those who preach tolerance to actually start practicing it…
By Gale
October 23, 2008 9:30 AM | Link to this
USinUK, you pose the exact argument of the pro group. Yes, we do mean legal residents. There are a few places noted where non-citizens have been granted the right to vote in local elections. In fact, very few actually do vote. It appears they have as much interest in the local sewer commisioner as most citizens - little. The argument against non-citizen voting, or should I say arguments, are many. The argument that voting is a responsibility of citizenship is foremost.
The waiting period allows the individual to become familiar with American culture and political issues. This seems reasonable. I know many non-citizens, who for whatever reason, have no intention of becoming a citizen and also have no intention of moving back to where ever they came from. The fear factor is also brought into the argument when the subject turns to national elections. It was suggested that a non-citizen vote could alter the immigration rules, (not necessarily a bad thing). There was also a concern that non-citizen votes could start granting additional rights to non-legal residents. Since they are not citizens, they would not be concerned with protecting an American culture.
I was curious about the UK stand on this issue. Some countries have rather long waiting periods before allowing non-citizens to vote in local elections. Some countries do not allow it at all.
By USinUK
October 23, 2008 9:33 AM | Link to this
GtG -
Why can’t dead people vote then? Or felons?
last time I checked, dead people can’t vote because … they’re dead. since a dead person can’t vote, then a live person is voting in his name, making it voter fraud.
oh, and a little factoid that will make your head e’splode: when Jimmy Carter was governor of my fair state, he was the one who cracked down on that type of voter fraud.
as for felons - only 12 states have statues that permanently bar felons from voting. all but 2 (VT and ME) prohibit inmates from voting, 36 keep parolees from voting, and 31 keep probationers from voting. me? I think that, once you’ve served your time, you’ve paid for your crimes (as long as you serve the full length of your sentence - I’m not a big fan of this whole “paroled early for good behavior” thing, but that’s just me). YMMV.
By chuck
October 23, 2008 9:33 AM | Link to this
Not to belabor the point Brudog, because I could knock you upside the head with a red-letter schofield and you would never admit you were wrong, but when you said:
Obviously, at some point, some group of men decided to change the Sabbath via a “new tradition”.
You left out the point that I made, which was that that “NEW” tradition started with Christ Himself, and liberty for continuing to worship on the first day of the week was given to the church in the verses I quoted. I have never said that observing the Sabbath could be changed to NOT OBSERVING the Sabbath. That is a matter of commandment. What I did say that the Church has perfect liberty to observe the Sabbath (day of rest) on Sunday as opposed to Saturday, and they were given that liberty in scripture.
As for your remark about “anti-semitism”, it pretty much sums up what you know about Christianity in general, and me specifically….that is to say, NOT MUCH. Israels staunchest supporters in the U.S. are conservative Christians. I personally would NEVER vote for a candidate who would abandon Israel. ONE MORE REASON I would NEVER vote for Barack HUSSEIN Hamas Obama. You have NEVER heard (or seen) an anti-semitic response from me on ANY ISSUE.
By USinUK
October 23, 2008 10:03 AM | Link to this
Gale -
The waiting period allows the individual to become familiar with American culture and political issues. This seems reasonable. I know many non-citizens, who for whatever reason, have no intention of becoming a citizen and also have no intention of moving back to where ever they came from.
sounds like me. as much as I love my adopted country, I have no desire to be a UK citizen. I love the US and would just as soon not drop that citizenship (although, the idea of being a dual citizen sounds so … continental!)
as for voting here, I didn’t have to do anything to qualify to vote in local elections - and I totally disagree with that. I think there should be tests to show that you understand what the flippin’ heck you’re doing.
then, again, I think US citizens should have to go through the same. (quick story: when I used to work for the State House, I used to field calls from the public - I’d say at least 80% of the time, most people had no clue what the difference was between a state rep and a congress critter. I don’t mean didn’t know their name - I mean didn’t know the difference between the folks who go to Atlanta between Jan and April and the folks who go to DC).
There was also a concern that non-citizen votes could start granting additional rights to non-legal residents. Since they are not citizens, they would not be concerned with protecting an American culture.
well. I can’t speak for anyone else, but I will tell you this - all the immigrants I know personally (loads of folks through work and my old neighborhood) who have filled out papers, had interviews, and paid fees to live in the US legally are in no hurry to grant legal status to the cheats who came in illegally.
By Gale
October 23, 2008 10:29 AM | Link to this
no hurry to grant legal status to the cheats who came in illegally. I have heard the same thing from folks I know who are trying to gain citizenship.
On topic: My company has “Fall Festivaled* us. I sent HR a note requesting that they change our Christmas festivities to Winter Festival, because it would sound more pagan that way. They agreed. Really, if you are going to do it on Halloween, Oct 31 as traditional, and give out candy and presents for costumes, why not call it what it is?
By Sunshine
October 23, 2008 10:43 AM | Link to this
Good Morning all!
Hope everyone is doing well, it has been lively around here! Nice to see! It has been a crazy busy week for me so haven’t had anytime to post but have enjoyed reading all the thoughtful posts from both sides of the aisle at night!
And not to invite his wrath but I will make a small comment on this: Israels staunchest supporters in the U.S. are conservative Christians. In SOME cases, there are people (some who visit Wasilla, AK) who believe that Jews are just “non-believers” and need to be converted via the “great commission” just like all the other sinners. I am a Staunch supporter of Israel and a staunch democrat, I would not vote for some one who would abandon one of our greatest allies in the middle east either!
And you do know that babies don’t get to choose their own name right? Just because he has a middle name that is shared by a bad person doesn’t mean anything, you do know that right? Its just a scare tactic to get uneducated people rilled up! I bet all the “Joe, the Plumbers” out there are feeling Barack HUSSEIN’s pain right now!
By Gandalf, the Grey
October 23, 2008 10:51 AM | Link to this
Dead people vote! Early and Often! ACORN assures them this right! It’s there right! And felons, they are, well, crimminals! Community Activists are what they are! ACORN needs felons! Barry has ties with these folks! KEEP HIM FREE! BARRY IS A JEW HATING MUSLIM!
By Archie
October 23, 2008 10:52 AM | Link to this
Frankly, the current health care system is so far gone, it needs radical overhauling. If you want to use TOJ’s system of no insurance, you pay for what you use, I humbly suggest that medical-related bankruptcies will skyrocket. If you want to use a single-payer system of working through the government (which is something like 1/7th the administrative cost of private health insurance companies), then of course there will be problems with that, too.
No system is perfect. And I’m not here saying the NIH is perfect I agree with every single you said USinUK. I used to be an insurance agent so I would prefer to buy and sell it but you are right the health insurance system is so far gone. I mean for a family to pay for health insurance without my state government paying part of the cost it would be a whopping 1258 per month!!! That’s an entire check for someone that works everyday not a slacker. I am referring to a major med plan for those that care about that. You need to regulate most things because mankind cannot,cannot be trusted to do the right thing as far as greed goes.
Also, I imagine people that paid and followed all the laws to be in the country legally are mad at illegals.
By USinUK
October 23, 2008 10:52 AM | Link to this
:::waving:::
hi sunshine!!
thought of you today - since I’m going to be out of the office next week, I made Halloween Cupcakes for my coworkers … yellow cake with chocolate icing (decorated with tiny, little sugar pumpkin sprinkles and in halloween cupcake cups).
Halloween Cupcakes. Not Fall Festival cupcakes - Halloween Cupcakes.
hope you’re feeling okay - take care of yourself, missy - make sure you’re getting enough rest.
By Gandalf, the Grey
October 23, 2008 11:04 AM | Link to this
AH!BUT MULSIMS CHANGE THIER NAME WHEN THEY BECOME MUSLIMS! WHY DIDN’T BARRY FOLLOW THAT TRADITION..Casius Clay = Mohamed Ali, Lew Alcinder = Kareem Abdul Jabar, what’s his name became Malcom X, etc, etc, etc. If I was attempting to become president of these united states, I would be Barry Abraham Lincoln Obama!
By Sunshine
October 23, 2008 11:17 AM | Link to this
Gandalf,
Set down the pipe, walk away, pick up newspaper, read and Breathe. There you go.
By The Other Jack
October 23, 2008 11:20 AM | Link to this
USinUk
Seemed a little crazy to me, too about the parallels to Obama’s lead and the DOW, but my ex talks about it constantly. Yesterday Obama was given a 9-12 point lead in several polls and the DOW dropped over 500 pts. Today the race has tightened and it is up about 150 pts. Yes, I know that is just two days, but I will start tracking it. My ex is seldom wrong about anything, (it drove me crazy when we were married) but we will see. The true test is what happens the day after the election.
The offers to send out information about private citizens is absolutely a fact. It is so common that I never thought to keep the e-mail, but if I get another one, I will post it. I had a huge blowout with several of the liberal fascist in my neighborhood when the local DNC rep posted on i-neighbors that he had acquired the list and wanted volunteers to call on the unregistered voters in the neighborhood. Up until then, I had kept my political affiliation a secret. Now that it is out, I canceled my subscription to i-neighbors because of the name calling. I along with several others had begged to keep politics off that service because I didn’t want the kind of battles we have here with the people that live down the street. (And yes, I was good. In fact, I never said anything other than I would like for my privacy to be respected)
It was 4AM before the old noggin’ went to test pattern last night, but I will have it done by tomorrow night. I can see the light at the end of the tunnel. Considering the top five crazies at the local Historical Society have final approval, I’m pretty sure the light is a train.
By Sunshine
October 23, 2008 11:26 AM | Link to this
Hi USinUK!
Yeah, I am feeling good, it was a stressful week with the big boss out, I work with all guys, and when ever the boss is out some of the boys like to test the waters and see how much they can get away with, so I have to keep them in line a bit! But most of my guys are good workers and that helps! I will rest up this weekend!
Out of the office next week? Vaca? Or are you going on a $150,000.00 shopping spree for a new wardrobe? ;-)
By USinUK
October 23, 2008 11:26 AM | Link to this
Set down the pipe, walk away, pick up newspaper, read and Breathe. There you go.
you forgot: take a valium … or lithium …
By The Other Jack
October 23, 2008 11:27 AM | Link to this
It’s funny cuz it’s REAL
The commentary you reference above was based on REAL words from the mouths of REAL Republicans about their ideas of “REAL America.
Yes, satire has to be based on reality, otherwise, it wouldn’t be satire.
The problem is when people are so friggin’ indoctrinated that they trust satire and the presentation of facts using satire as reality. The very fact that I need to explain satire to you puts a very bright spotlight on the problem.
By The Other Jack
October 23, 2008 11:48 AM | Link to this
Bruno
David vs. Goliath, you vs. the world. Any truth to that?
Most of the attacks came from the same dim-witted sideline sniper that they always come from. Not exactly a mental Goliath. More about me stepping on a p**.
But I guess there is some truth to that. I always liked the song “I Did It My Way”. Also, very early on, I realized the power of video and have gotten a lot done by suggesting to huge organizations that if they didn’t clean up their act, I was ready and waiting with my trusty video camera. At one time, I actually pressed Chevron to clean up the service station at North Ave. There was almost a month that there were no crack dealers or prostitutes doing business in their parking lot.
But on here? There are a couple on here that offer a great challenge, but I like those folks.
As far as investments. I have been buying like crazy. Lots of energy stocks. They are almost affordable. Gas prices will skyrocket again and at least I won’t be completely screwed. Look at Ariva, the French company that builds and maintains the nuke plants in France. They have a big footprint here in the routing and control of electricity. When Washington finally wakes up, they will be a big part in building the plants here. That’s long term, but as USinUk says, comfort food is short term. Mikie Dees is up like crazy.
I am sooo tempted to buy Ford. They are so cheap right now and they own several great car companies.
By USinUK
October 23, 2008 11:50 AM | Link to this
TOJ -
here’s just a smattering of the news that Wall Street is digesting:
Wall Street digested a rush of corporate news. Goldman Sachs Group Inc. is preparing to cut about 10 percent of its work force, according to a person briefed on the plan who requested anonymity because the company hadn’t publicly disclosed details of the plan.
Meanwhile, drugmaker Eli Lilly and Co. said it booked a loss for the third quarter on a charge of almost $1.5 billion for an expected settlement of an investigation into the marketing of its top-selling drug, Zyprexa, while Dow Chemical Co. said quarterly profit rose 6 percent, helped by price hikes that offset a nearly 50 percent increase in raw materials and energy costs.
Economic readings offered investors no relief from their recession fears. The Labor Department reported Thursday that new applications for unemployment benefits rose 15,000 last week to a seasonally adjusted 478,000. That was slightly above analysts’ estimates of 470,000. Jobless claims above 400,000 are considered a sign of recession. A year ago, claims stood at 333,000, the department said.
plus: 71% increase in home foreclosures during Q3, the largest number of mass layoffs (more than 50 employees) since 2001, projections from the MBA that new home sales will continue to fall next year, countries such as Germany, the UK and Japan predicting a recession. All those stories have been in the news this week.
and you’re wrong about today’s polls, as well. Quinnipiac and another mid-western state polling group have announced growing leads by Obama in mid-western states.
but, other than all that, sure … you’re right … it’s all about Obama in the polls.
Yes, satire has to be based on reality, otherwise, it wouldn’t be satire.
this wasn’t satire based on reality - these were real quotes. big difference, there.
The offers to send out information about private citizens is absolutely a fact.
you said OBAMA was sending out offers for you to obtain those lists. and I’m saying that’s a buncha bollocks.
I can see the light at the end of the tunnel. Considering the top five crazies at the local Historical Society have final approval, I’m pretty sure the light is a train.
yoooouuuu caaaaaan dooooo iiiiitttt!!!!! :-) (as Prissy sang in GWTW, “Just a few more days to tote the weary load…”)
Out of the office next week? Vaca? Or are you going on a $150,000.00 shopping spree for a new wardrobe?
good gravy. $150,000 on a wardrobe. I still can’t wrap my mind around that. I mean, criminey - I could do some damage on a shopping trip - but that’s a house (or at least a condo). $150,000 is a year years of retirement. $150,000 is full university tuition for all 4 years for 4 of her kids. geez-o-pete, $150,000 on suits and dresses??? you can get some really nice stuff at Macy’s or Ann Taylor for about 10% of what she paid.
no, it wasn’t tax-payer money, but it was from donations that people probably thought were going to help buy ad time, etc, for congress critters running for contested seats - not new shoes and purses. and the kicker: that doesn’t include fees for makeup and hair consultation!!!
sorta leave $400 for a haircut in the shade, don’t it.
I’m on vacation for 2 weeks - I’ll be in and out, so I won’t be totally MIA. :-)
By Sunshine
October 23, 2008 11:51 AM | Link to this
Yes, satire has to be based on reality, otherwise, it wouldn’t be satire.
The problem is when people are so friggin’ indoctrinated that they trust satire and the presentation of facts using satire as reality
Well have you watched The Daily Show lately? Most of John Stewart’s monologue goes like this 1) video of some politician saying something (true, real, fact) 2) John Stewart saying something like “REALLY?!?!?” or “OPPS!” He makes fun of what they say, it IS news, it IS a fact because he is not telling people about something, he is showing a clip of them doing/saying it. There is nothing to indoctrinate people with. If the bone head politicians didn’t say it or do it there would be nothing to make fun of! Come on with all the negitive adds and “the __ party’s candidate will destroy the universe and eat your babies if elected”, we all need a laugh now and then!
By JustaJew
October 23, 2008 11:53 AM | Link to this
“BARRY IS A JEW HATING MUSLIM!”
I don’t get that sense Gandalf. I don’t feel threatened by Obama. I don’t think he’s going to train the U.S. military on my house once he’s President. I mean, if this was the case then why are soooo many Jews voting for him? On the flip side, would it be accurate for me to state that:
GANDALF IS A MUSLIM HATING CHRISTIAN!!!!
Is that a fair assessment of you?
By The Other Jack
October 23, 2008 12:00 PM | Link to this
USinUk
If you want to use TOJ’s system of no insurance, you pay for what you use,
What the hell was that? I have great insurance thanks to the medical savings plan the Republicans set up. Do you have any idea of how the system works?
I have what is called catastrophic coverage, $1,000 deductible, but I have a savings account that can only be used for emergency room visits and check-ups. So yes,in a way I pay for it when I need it. So what is wrong with that? I am 56 and have no problem running several miles. I take care of myself so it works great. If something bad happens, i will be completely covered with REAL doctors, no HMO crap and I can pick my hospital.
Incredibly enough, the Republicans want me to survive, not some bureaucratic crap hole that the government will throw billions down.
By USinUK
October 23, 2008 12:03 PM | Link to this
On the flip side, would it be accurate for me to state that: GANDALF IS A MUSLIM HATING CHRISTIAN!!!!
well done, sir!
By The Other Jack
October 23, 2008 12:07 PM | Link to this
Sunshine
So who picks what is shown on Jon’s show? Do you see statements made by people on both parties at an equal and fair rate? How many of Biden’s incredibly stupid gaffs have you seen him go after? How many of Obama’s countless contradictions have you seen on that show?
Goebbels once said that it isn’t what you present to the public. It is about what you don’t present to the public.
It is first rate, opinion changing propaganda in the true definition of Joseph Goebbels.
But here you and several others are defending it. Apparently it is working rather well.
By JustaJew
October 23, 2008 12:12 PM | Link to this
“have what is called catastrophic coverage, $1,000 deductible, but I have a savings account that can only be used for emergency room visits and check-ups. So yes,in a way I pay for it when I need it. So what is wrong with that?”
There’s nothing wrong with that for you as a healthy, middle-aged male. How does this system work with those who are not healthy? I don’t mean those people who are not healthy of their own accord, they made their beds, they can lie in them. I’m talking about those people with chronic conditions and special needs people who need constant care. I’m honestly not trying to dig you here, I just don’t know how well this kind of coverage works for those kind of people.
By USinUK
October 23, 2008 12:12 PM | Link to this
TOJ -
What the hell was that? I have great insurance thanks to the medical savings plan the Republicans set up. Do you have any idea of how the system works?
I’m sorry - maybe I’m confusing you with Bruno - but I thought you were a proponent of no insurance, just pay the doctors directly …
I apologize if I’m mistaken.
By The Other Jack
October 23, 2008 12:14 PM | Link to this
JustaJew
*I mean, if this was the case then why are soooo many Jews voting for him? *
Have you ever heard the term: “yellow dog democrat”?
I don’t think he’s going to train the U.S. military on my house once he’s President.
So that is your barometer? I would be very concerned that the leader of the American Black Muslim Movement who is incredibly open about his absolute hate for Israel is calling him the messiah. But that’s just me.
By JustaJew
October 23, 2008 12:16 PM | Link to this
“So who picks what is shown on Jon’s show? Do you see statements made by people on both parties at an equal and fair rate? How many of Biden’s incredibly stupid gaffs have you seen him go after? How many of Obama’s countless contradictions have you seen on that show?”
so take this whole diatribe and then substitute: Jon’s with Sean’s (as in Hannity), Biden’s with Palin’s and Obama’s with McCain’s. See, there are real world examples on both sides…
By Sunshine
October 23, 2008 12:16 PM | Link to this
LOL! but that’s a house (or at least a condo)—That’s what I was screaming! you can get some really nice stuff at Macy’s or Ann Taylor for about 10% of what she paid.—Exactly! That is not a new wardrobe, it is a new way of life! I read that one jacket she wore to the GOP convention (not the whole outfit, mind you, just the one single JACKET! That she will probably only wear once!) was $2500, that was more than my first car! My favorite line of the whole thing was by “McCain-Palin spokeswoman Tracey Schmitt said the clothes will be tossed in a charity bin of some sort after Nov. 4.” Yeah, that makes it all ok!
I hope you have fun on your trip! Two weeks off sounds divine about now!
And JustaJew—GANDALF IS A MUSLIM HATING CHRISTIAN!!!! I think that sounds about right, and seems a fair assessment!
By JustaJew
October 23, 2008 12:24 PM | Link to this
“I would be very concerned that the leader of the American Black Muslim Movement who is incredibly open about his absolute hate for Israel is calling him the messiah. But that’s just me.”
Why would you be concerned? I’m not. If you REALLY believe that Obama will do anything to rock the boat with Israel in particular or Jews in general, then I have some prime ocean-front property in Oklahoma to sell you.
By USinUK
October 23, 2008 12:24 PM | Link to this
JustaJew -
so take this whole diatribe and then substitute: Jon’s with Sean’s (as in Hannity), Biden’s with Palin’s and Obama’s with McCain’s. See, there are real world examples on both sides…
the key difference is that Jon is on COMEDY CENTRAL while Sean Hannity is on FOX NEWS … CC = entertainment … FN = news …
HUGE difference.
and one which still seems to elude TOJ.
By The Other Jack
October 23, 2008 12:25 PM | Link to this
USinUK
This is a cut and paste from the Obama website. Go there, look under Volunteer. Took me 30 seconds to find this.
What else you can do: This campaign can only succeed if you take its future into your own hands. Join the My.BarackObama.com social network, and use the Neighbor to Neighbor tool to reach out to voters in your community. Visit the Vote for Change website to make sure you and all your friends are registered to vote. We also encourage you to check your state page to find out what’s going on in your area.
Then click on the highlighted phrase “Neighbor to neighbor tool”
* Reach Out to Voters in battleground states*
Talking directly to voters is the most important way you can help win this election for Barack Obama.
If you are not in a battleground state, we’ll give you everything you need, including:
*** A list of key voters to contact in battleground states * A script you can use in your conversations * An easy interface to report back your contacts**In a battleground state? You can:
*** Print lists of voters near you to talk to in person or * Get phone numbers of key voters to call in your state * An easy interface to report back your contacts**We have email and phone support, so if you have any questions, we can help.
Log in now and get started!
WAKE UP!!! You are supporting a party that gives not one damn about you or your privacy. I would appreciate it if you checked some facts before you start saying that I am making stuff up. And of course an apology is out of the question.
By JustaJew
October 23, 2008 12:30 PM | Link to this
GANDALF IS A MUSLIM HATING CHRISTIAN!!!! I think that sounds about right, and seems a fair assessment!
Which is bewildering to me since Christians are supposed to “love their neighbors as themselves” but I guess that’s only if your neighbor is a G-d-fearing Christian themselves. Gandalf seems to love his guns more than his neighbors.
By The Other Jack
October 23, 2008 12:31 PM | Link to this
JustaJew
It’s not like I expected you to agree with me. I just wanted tom point out how dumb your barometer was.
I completely support Israel and I am very concerned with a person that is considered a messiah to one of the world’s leading antisemitic. So are you saying that Farrakhan doesn’t know what he is talking about?
By Googily Moogily!
October 23, 2008 12:31 PM | Link to this
because american jews are too stupid to see what’s going to happen in the Middle East if Obama takes power! That wackjob in Iran will get his bomb and they will bomb ISREAL! Oh, that’s OK? You are living in world of confusion. Do I hate the nations of islam? Of course I do! You are too stupid to see the threat, ever hear of: 1948 Arab-Israeli War
1956 Suez War
1967 Six Day War
1970 War of Attrition
1973 Yom Kippur War
1982 Lebanon War
1987-1993 First Intifada
1982-2000 South Lebanon conflict
2000-2007 al-Aqsa Intifada
2006 Lebanon War
? Ring a bell? You don’t know what these b******* are capable of, so go pound sand! People like Obama will sit down and talk to them, better to talk to a wall.
If you can’t see the real threat, that is Obama, well, you’re just another DUM BASS!
EXPAT you are getting stupider ever day, dual citizenship! What a stupid concept!
By Googily Moogily!
October 23, 2008 12:32 PM | Link to this
because american jews are too stupid to see what’s going to happen in the Middle East if Obama takes power! That wackjob in Iran will get his bomb and they will bomb ISREAL! Oh, that’s OK? You are living in world of confusion. Do I hate the nations of islam? Of course I do! You are too stupid to see the threat, ever hear of: 1948 Arab-Israeli War
1956 Suez War
1967 Six Day War
1970 War of Attrition
1973 Yom Kippur War
1982 Lebanon War
1987-1993 First Intifada
1982-2000 South Lebanon conflict
2000-2007 al-Aqsa Intifada
2006 Lebanon War
? Ring a bell? You don’t know what these b******* are capable of, so go pound sand! People like Obama will sit down and talk to them, better to talk to a wall.
If you can’t see the real threat, that is Obama, well, you’re just another DUM BASS!
EXPAT you are getting stupider ever day, dual citizenship! What a stupid concept!
By USinUK
October 23, 2008 12:33 PM | Link to this
Sunshine -
I hope you have fun on your trip! Two weeks off sounds divine about now!
all the work I’m doing leading up to it makes me wonder if it’s worth it!!
glad to hear you’re keeping your boys in line - make sure they carry stuff for you and take good care of you!! :-)
I read that one jacket she wore to the GOP convention (not the whole outfit, mind you, just the one single JACKET! That she will probably only wear once!) was $2500, that was more than my first car!
I’m saying!! Look, I understand that they want her to look professional and tailored and competent … and I have no problem that they outfitted her … but, criminey. $150,000!!! and the GOP wonders why people don’t think they’re fiscal conservatives anymore …
By JustaJew
October 23, 2008 12:34 PM | Link to this
the key difference is that Jon is on COMEDY CENTRAL while Sean Hannity is on FOX NEWS … CC = entertainment … FN = news …
HUGE difference.
I’m with you USinUK although I do sometimes see Hannioty and Colmes as entertainment. I mean, how can you watch that program and not laugh your a$$ off?
By JustaJew
October 23, 2008 12:37 PM | Link to this
You are supporting a party that gives not one damn about you or your privacy
Wow, if that isn’t the pot/kettle statement of the year, I don’t know what is…
By chuck
October 23, 2008 12:37 PM | Link to this
Sunshine, I hate to bring rain into your life, BUT:
In SOME cases, there are people (some who visit Wasilla, AK) who believe that Jews are just “non-believers” and need to be converted via the “great commission” just like all the other sinners.
I can’t believe ANY CHRISTIAN would think anything other than what you wrote. Christians believe what Jesus said, “I am the way, the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father but by me.”
What has that idea got to do with whether or not we support the state of Israel? Absolutely nothing. We support the state of Israel because of the book of Revelations. I won’t go into detail unless someone asks, but there is a Biblical reason for supporting Israel in spite of the fact that most there are non-beilevers.
Just because he has a middle name that is shared by a bad person doesn’t mean anything, you do know that right? Its just a scare tactic to get uneducated people rilled up!
You are right, his middle name means nothing. I use it because HE SEEMS to think that there is something wrong with it and to watch silly little lefties start foaming at the mouth over it. It seems every time I use it, you guys start crying about it. There must be something to it, huh?
By The Other Jack
October 23, 2008 12:38 PM | Link to this
USinUk
the key difference is that Jon is on COMEDY CENTRAL while Sean Hannity is on FOX NEWS … CC = entertainment … FN = news …HUGE difference.and one which still seems to elude TOJ.
I love it when i am talked about instead of to.
There is not that much difference between Jon Stewart and Sean Hannity. Both are considered entertainment, not news. I am surprised that I need to point this out to a journalism major, but Hannity and Colmes is a political opinion show, NOT NEWS.
But there is a huge diofference in entertainment and news. You just gave a bone headed example. News can be very slanted and has been since the invention of the printing press. but that is not propaganda. Propaganda is political opinion disguised as entertainment, such as Jon Stewart’s ahow.
By Gandalf, the Grey
October 23, 2008 12:40 PM | Link to this
Sunshine your fat and have stretch marks.
By Gandalf, the Grey
October 23, 2008 12:40 PM | Link to this
Sunshine your fat and have stretch marks.
By USinUK
October 23, 2008 12:41 PM | Link to this
TOJ -
I suggest you visit the McCain website … he does the same thing:
Thank you for making phone calls for McCain-Palin 2008. Please signup using the form on the left to begin making phone calls. We are counting on you to help call undecided voters from across the country and tell them why McCain Palin 2008 is the right choice for America. Good Luck!
You are supporting a party that gives not one damn about you or your privacy.
and so are you, evidently. well done.
By The Other Jack
October 23, 2008 12:43 PM | Link to this
Bruno
David and Goliath? So the dim witted sideline sniper is Goliath? Hardly.
I come here because i like my ideas to be tested. And some are, but I can defend most of what I say.
By Sunshine
October 23, 2008 12:54 PM | Link to this
*WAKE UP!!! You are supporting a party that gives not one damn about you or your privacy. *
Oh good grief Chicken Little!!! It is all public info, get over it! Both Campaigns do it! Are you just mad that Grandpa McBush who has said he doesn’t even know how to turn on a computer is not as well organized? You really should be more concerned with secret domestic wire taping then a campaign using the white pages and the tax records! Calm Down! Ever been to Zaba Search? You will be amazed by what is public info!
By The Other Jack
October 23, 2008 12:54 PM | Link to this
USinUk
So it is. I don’t like any of it.
But it looks like we both learned something today. And that is a very good thing.
I am going to lunch at 1 (8 minutes away) with a very attractive woman from the county government. She is sooo friggin’ hot, but I feel very guilty. It has been less than a month.
Have a good one.
By USinUK
October 23, 2008 12:55 PM | Link to this
TOJ -
There is not that much difference between Jon Stewart and Sean Hannity. Both are considered entertainment, not news. I am surprised that I need to point this out to a journalism major, but Hannity and Colmes is a political opinion show, NOT NEWS.
H&C is a political opinion show on a cable news channel
JS is a comedy show on a cable entertainment channel
if you can’t see the difference between the two, it’s because you have your eyes tightly shut and your fingers in your ears, singing lalalalalalala to drown it all out.
By Gandalf, the Grey
October 23, 2008 12:55 PM | Link to this
OPRAH IS GOING TO BE THE AMERICAN AMBASSADOR TO ENGLAND IF BARRY IS ELECTED! GOD I MISS BARRY GOLDWATER! RIP!
By Gandalf, the Grey
October 23, 2008 12:55 PM | Link to this
OPRAH IS GOING TO BE THE AMERICAN AMBASSADOR TO ENGLAND IF BARRY IS ELECTED! GOD I MISS BARRY GOLDWATER! RIP!
By Sunshine
October 23, 2008 1:05 PM | Link to this
It seems every time I use it, you guys start crying about it. There must be something to it, huh? Ummmm, not really, the only people it seems to get a reaction from is the UNEDUCATED or the GOP base.
By USinUK
October 23, 2008 1:05 PM | Link to this
TOJ -
But it looks like we both learned something today. And that is a very good thing.
:-)
I am going to lunch at 1 (8 minutes away) with a very attractive woman from the county government. She is sooo friggin’ hot, but I feel very guilty. It has been less than a month.
honey, life goes on. that’s all I can tell you. do you think you should rend your garments and spend the next 12 months in chaste mourning??? what good would that do.
By Sunshine
October 23, 2008 1:27 PM | Link to this
USinUK—You will love this!
Oct. 23 (Bloomberg) — Former Federal Reserve Chairman Alan Greenspan said a “once-in-a-century credit tsunami” has engulfed financial markets and conceded that his free-market ideology shunning regulation was flawed.
Ahhhh, you think? Mr Deregulation McCain, might want to try and de-emphasize his voting record a bit after that little sound bite!
By Sunshine
October 23, 2008 2:10 PM | Link to this
Just read the best quote I have heard in a while:
If by a “liberal” they mean someone who looks ahead and not behind, someone who welcomes new ideas without rigid reactions, someone who cares about the welfare of the people — their health, their housing, their schools, their jobs, their civil rights and their civil liberties — someone who believes we can break through the stalemate and suspicions that grip us in our policies abroad, if that is what they mean by a “liberal,” then I’m proud to say I’m a “liberal.” ~ John F. Kennedy
I am tired of Liberal being a dirty word, anyone else?
By Mara
October 23, 2008 2:27 PM | Link to this
USinUK, knowing how you feel about Greenspan (hat tip to Sunshine for his bit) saw this todya in the NYT -
…in a tense exchange with Representative Henry A. Waxman, the California Democrat who is chairman of the committee [House Committee of Government Oversight and Reform - ed.], Mr. Greenspan conceded a more serious flaw in his own philosophy that unfettered free markets sit at the root of a superior economy.
“I made a mistake in presuming that the self-interests of organizations, specifically banks and others, were such as that they were best capable of protecting their own shareholders and their equity in the firms,” Mr. Greenspan said.
Referring to his free-market ideology, Mr. Greenspan added: “I have found a flaw. I don’t know how significant or permanent it is. But I have been very distressed by that fact.”
Mr. Waxman pressed the former Fed chair to clarify his words. “In other words, you found that your view of the world, your ideology, was not right, it was not working,” Mr. Waxman said.
“Absolutely, precisely,” Mr. Greenspan replied. “You know, that’s precisely the reason I was shocked, because I have been going for 40 years or more with very considerable evidence that it was working exceptionally well.”
It’s not often that public figures actually admit their mistakes, even when those mistakes are blindingly obvious. I give the man props for ‘fessing up and owning his errors. :^)
By Bruno
October 23, 2008 2:46 PM | Link to this
Not to belabor the point Brudog, because I could knock you upside the head with a red-letter schofield and you would never admit you were wrong
I admit when I am wrong both here on the blog and in “real life” quite frequently, chuck. As a frail human sinner, I am wrong about something every day, whether that “something” be a simple recollection of fact or, more importantly, a less-than-loving attitude toward another human being. I even regret using harsh language toward you, however “deserving” you are of that harsh language. On the other hand, you stated just yesterday that you are “almost never wrong”. That sounds pretty arrogant to me.
You left out the point that I made, which was that that “NEW” tradition started with Christ Himself, and liberty for continuing to worship on the first day of the week was given to the church in the verses I quoted. I have never said that observing the Sabbath could be changed to NOT OBSERVING the Sabbath. That is a matter of commandment. What I did say that the Church has perfect liberty to observe the Sabbath (day of rest) on Sunday as opposed to Saturday, and they were given that liberty in scripture.
Again, chuck, either you are dense or, more likely, deliberately arrogant regarding the facts laid out in the Bible. But, I’ll tell you what: Show me even ONE instance in which Christ himself mentioned changing the Sabbath Day, and I’ll sing from the mountaintops about how wrong I am. The “fact” that Mary Magdalene and others “spoke” to Jesus on the first day of the week following his Crucifixion changes nothing. Once again, in the Bible, the Sabbath Day remains unchanged from Genesis through Revelation. What more evidence do you need?
As for your remark about “anti-semitism”, it pretty much sums up what you know about Christianity in general, and me specifically….that is to say, NOT MUCH. Israels staunchest supporters in the U.S. are conservative Christians. I personally would NEVER vote for a candidate who would abandon Israel. ONE MORE REASON I would NEVER vote for Barack HUSSEIN Hamas Obama. You have NEVER heard (or seen) an anti-semitic response from me on ANY ISSUE.
I’ve interviewed scores of “conservative Christians” who support Israel out of one side of their mouths, yet condemn Jews out of the other side of their mouths for (a) being responsible for the Crucifixion of Jesus and (b) not acknowledging Jesus as the Messiah as described in Daniel and other Old Testament books. Most of them won’t even acknowledge the obvious fact that Jesus WAS a Jew himself and NEVER ONCE advocated the formation of a new, distinct religion which was separate from Judaism. A prime example of what I am saying is Pat Robertson. Exactly what is your position on these issues?
By Gale
October 24, 2008 8:20 AM | Link to this
Two things about Alan Greenspan. After his testimony yesterday, I only admire him more. I am glad that our fiscal policy was guided by a man that had faith in free enterprise and corporate America. He had faith in the concept of enlightened self interest and believe that corporations would regulate themselves in the interest of maintaining good commerce. Deep inside, he is an idealist, as I am. Secondly, he was one of 14 governors on the Federal Reserve board, albiet the chairman. I doubt the others were so completely cowed by him that they would have stood by for so many years with their hands in their pockets if they had not agreed, for the most part, on the policies they set.
By USinUK
October 24, 2008 8:45 AM | Link to this
Gale —
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
(the sound that you just heard was my head exploding)
Honestly, as much as I like you, I can’t effing believe you just said that.
Alan Greenspan may be an idealist, but idealism has only 2 places in this world: the classroom and your chosen place of worship. Just as you can be an idealist that all people are good at heart, that doesn’t mean that you blithely walk through the scary parts of town with cash hanging out of your pockets. No, you think the best about people but you act with common sense.
Alan Greenspan checked his common sense at the door of the Fed, letting his idealism run amok, with you, me and the rest of the world markets paying the price.
He was in charge of regulating the banking industry - what did he do??? nothing. In fact, he encouraged them to come up with “creative mortgage products” with no oversight.
The world’s major financial superstars such as Warren Buffet were calling derivatives a “weapon of mass destruction” and what did he do?? fight tooth and nail against clairity and regulation of that market.
When the Fed funds rate was 1% with nowhere to go but up, what was he doing?? recommending Adjustable Rate Mortgages.
Sorry, Gale, but Alan Greenspan will go down in history as one of the biggest contributors to the current credit problems the world (not just the US) is currently experiencing.
By USinUK
October 24, 2008 8:50 AM | Link to this
Mara -
good grief … my reputation of antipathy towards Alan Greenspan must REALLY preceed me … (and I thought I hid it so well) ;-)
Referring to his free-market ideology, Mr. Greenspan added: “I have found a flaw. I don’t know how significant or permanent it is. But I have been very distressed by that fact.”
that just kills me. he doesn’t know how significant it is??? are you effing kidding me??? um, Al, ask the folks at Lehman how significant it is. ask the folks in Iceland how significant it is. How about the 10% of global Goldman-Sachs staff that are getting laid off … they may be able to give you a little clue as to how significant it is.
god, that man. I think my blood pressure just went up 10 points.
By Gale
October 24, 2008 9:20 AM | Link to this
Sorry, Gale, but Alan Greenspan will go down in history as one of the biggest contributors to the current credit problems the world (not just the US) is currently experiencing.
That may well be, USinUK. However, I still admire that he believed what he did and that he admited it in the face of criticism. And I still say there were a bunch of others on that board who apparently bought into the philosophy. If it was so wrong, why didn’t they fight him on it? He doesn’t look all that tough.
I think the world is in for some major restting, not merely in finance, but also in politics. We are getting a glaring picture what is wrong. We will probably be pasting a reset on American policy and I hope to H_ll we don’t lose it all. I saw a note elsewhere: Every Reagan needs a Carter. Maybe.
I hope you can tape your head back together for your vacation.
By Gale
October 24, 2008 9:33 AM | Link to this
that should be resetting, not restting
By It's Funny Cuz it's Real
October 24, 2008 9:43 AM | Link to this
Actually, Jon Stewart has, in recent weeks, shown gaffes from Democratic politicians as well, even doing a whole segment about “gaffes”. My favorite was Joe Biden saying, “When the stock market crashed, Roosevelt went on TV and….” Yes, he showed the clip. Yes, the joke wrote itself, and all we had to do was laugh our butts off.
TOJ’s claim that Jon Stewart is a propaganda outlet for the Dems just isn’t true.
By USinUK
October 24, 2008 9:44 AM | Link to this
Gale -
However, I still admire that he believed what he did and that he admited it in the face of criticism
well, criminey, Gale, he just wrote a book on the issue, so it’d be pretty darned hard for him to sit there and either back away from what he did or just say “nope. everything I did went perfectly according to plan and the economy is just fine.”
as for his accepting the blame, may I humbly submit this passage from the NYT: Mr. Waxman noted that the Fed chairman had been one of the nation’s leading voices for deregulation, displaying past statements in which Mr. Greenspan had argued that government regulators were no better than markets at imposing discipline.
“Were you wrong?” Mr. Waxman asked.
“Partially,” the former Fed chairman reluctantly answered, before trying to parse his concession as thinly as possible.
that’s not really accepting responsibility for his role in the derivative debacle, is it?
And I still say there were a bunch of others on that board who apparently bought into the philosophy. If it was so wrong, why didn’t they fight him on it? He doesn’t look all that tough.
they don’t arm-wrestle for votes. the Fed chairman (as with the presidents of the Bank of England and the European Central Bank, the Bank of Japan, and even the Peoples Bank of China) usually carries the day. In the years that I’ve been following them, I can only remember 1 close vote, and it was the Bank of England - I definitely can’t recall where the majority overturned those at the helm.
I saw a note elsewhere: Every Reagan needs a Carter. Maybe.
every Obama needs a W??? interesting concept.
what I do know is that the memory hole is awfully big … everytime we say “never again”, we still do whatever it was again and again. you may be cheering a change in mindset … sadly, it will be fleeting. as far as Wall Street goes, greed will always win out, investors will always look for revenue and, there will always be an appetite for risk when the water is calm because investors seem to forget that economic cycles are just that - cycles - and for every up, there will be a down.
I just hope the new administration and Congress will put measures into place that will encourage longer-term gains rather than short-term returns to at least curb the excesses of the last 10 years.
By Mara
October 24, 2008 9:45 AM | Link to this
Gale - “…why didn’t they fight him on it? He doesn’t look all that tough.”
LOL!! I wonder who’d win a “Celebrity Death Match” between Greenspan and Buffet. Mmmmwwwwaaaaaaahahahahahaha!!
By USinUK
October 24, 2008 9:58 AM | Link to this
Mara -
LOL!! I wonder who’d win a “Celebrity Death Match” between Greenspan and Buffet. Mmmmwwwwaaaaaaahahahahahaha!!
my money would be on Buffet … he’s got that whole Western hard-bitten thing going on … criminey, anyone who could survive a Nebraska winter you KNOW would be scrappy in a fight
By Gale
October 24, 2008 9:58 AM | Link to this
I saw a note elsewhere: Every Reagan needs a Carter. Maybe.
every Obama needs a W???
Actually, I meant the president that follows Obama. Most would have us believe the election is a done deal. I don’t have a great deal of hope for an Obama administration. I hope I am wrong.
By Gandalf, the Grey
October 24, 2008 10:00 AM | Link to this
THEY ARE LETTING OUT THE MAYOR! HE WILL BE FREE! MAYOR CAMPBELL HAS BEEN OPPRESSED LONG ENOUGH! LET’S NAME A STREET AFTER HIM AND HAVE A PARADE! BETTER YET LET’S NAME AN AIRPORT AFTER HIM! PEACH TREE DEKALB CAMPBELL? (PYT?)
By Gandalf, the Grey
October 24, 2008 10:24 AM | Link to this
Gale Hope in one hand…. The Audacity of Hope! Changes, isn’t that a Bowie song?
By Gandalf, the Grey
October 24, 2008 10:56 AM | Link to this
EVERY ROSE HAS IT’s THORNS!
By Gandalf, the Grey
October 24, 2008 10:56 AM | Link to this
EVERY ROSE HAS IT’s THORNS!
By chuck
October 24, 2008 10:56 AM | Link to this
I’ve interviewed scores of “conservative Christians” who support Israel out of one side of their mouths, yet condemn Jews out of the other side of their mouths for (a) being responsible for the Crucifixion of Jesus and (b) not acknowledging Jesus as the Messiah as described in Daniel and other Old Testament books. Most of them won’t even acknowledge the obvious fact that Jesus WAS a Jew himself and NEVER ONCE advocated the formation of a new, distinct religion which was separate from Judaism.Exactly what is your position on these issues?
Yeah, I’d like to see the transcripts of these “interviews”, but nonetheless, here are my positions on each one of the things you mentioned. While I don’t claim to speak for ALL CHRISTIANS, I have attended church with thousands of them and I don’t know ANY Christian who would significantly disagree with the following:
1) The Jews WERE responsible for the crucifiction of Christ. That said, I don’t know of any Christians who hold a grudge against the Jews because of that. “Without the shedding of blood there is no remission for sin”. Christ’s death on the cross was part of God’s plan for redemption of mankind. His death, burial, and resurrection made it possible for a sinner such as me to gain forgiveness for my sins and spend eternity in Heaven.
2) Jews who fail to acknowledge Christ are lost and on their way to hell. We hold no animosity toward them for that. Rather, we pray for their redemption. Their road to heaven is no different from mine or any other person for that matter. Jesus said, “I am the way, the truth and the life. No man cometh to the Father but by Me.” The Jews are not lost as a PEOPLE, but individual Jews who reject Christ are lost, just as any BAPTIST who rejects Christ is lost.
3) Of course Jesus was a Jew, but you err in your designation of Christianity as a “NEW” religion. Untill Christ, Jews operated under the OLD Covenant. In the book of Jeremiah it says:
Jeremiah 31:31 “The time is coming,” declares the LORD, “when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah.
Jesus established a NEW COVENANT with humanity that was open to ALL people who choose to believe. At the Last Supper, before He was crucified, Jesus said:
Luke 22:20 In the same way, after the supper he took the cup, saying, “This cup is the new covenant in my blood, which is poured out for you.
There is a fundamental change in the way people relate to God through Christ. You can make the statement that:
Jesus WAS a Jew himself and NEVER ONCE advocated the formation of a new, distinct religion which was separate from Judaism.
But He without a doubt changed forever the relationship between God and man. Jesus was the completion of God’s plan for His people, and MOST OF THEM REJECTED CHRIST. That is a matter of History. Christianity IS separate and distinct from DEAD RELIGION. It is based on God’s GRACE through the faith of believers IN HIM. It is not a religion, it is a FAITH and it is not based on rituals but in the PERSON of Jesus Christ.
Why then do Christians continue to LOVE THE JEWS? Because God loves them and continues to have a plan for them. That plan is revealed in the Book of Revelations if you care to study it. In addition, from a practical stand point, Conservative Christians understand that Israel holds the key to maintaining control over radical Islamofascists.
Anything else you want to know?
By Gale
October 24, 2008 11:10 AM | Link to this
Anything else you want to know?
I want to know when they are going to post a new topic.
By USinUK
October 24, 2008 11:22 AM | Link to this
I want to know when they are going to post a new topic.
cereal. they’re getting later and later with that -
and what was with cutting off comments early yesterday???
By k
October 24, 2008 11:22 AM | Link to this
“Why then do Christians continue to LOVE THE JEWS?”
I have a whole bunch of reasons, but none of them have to do with a “Christian’s” fanatical adherence to an oft-retranslated history book authored and edited repeatedly over the centuries by various groups of men who used it to secure money and power for themselves. I’m just sayin’. (Shout out to my Jewish peeps: LOVE YOU!)
By chuck
October 24, 2008 11:29 AM | Link to this
USUK,
You said the NYT reported:
before trying to parse his concession as thinly as possible.
and used that to claim that Greenspan “hardly took responsibility.”
That’s a load of crap. That statement was a CHARACTERIZATION of what Greenspan said by the NYT. I wonder which way they might lean. Having read Greenspan’s ACTUAL statements, he DID take responsibility for HIS part in the policy implementation.
BTW, Greenspan’s “crime” was that he expected CEO’s and their Boards to act in the best interest of THEIR OWN COMPANY. This should fit in with the philosophy that all you lefties hold shouldn’t it?
I mean Barack HUSSEIN HAMAS Obama believes that Iran, North Korea and Cuba will be good citizens of the world without any restraints. Oh that’s right, despots are GOOD, corporations are EVIL.
What a warped view of the world you folks have. You don’t want to regulate our ENEMIES, but you do want to regulate our JOB PROVIDERS.
By chuck
October 24, 2008 11:32 AM | Link to this
Thanks once again for your “rational” contribution Kimberly.
By USinUK
October 24, 2008 11:32 AM | Link to this
Just read an interesting forecast: the combined G-7 economies are expected to contract 1.1% next year with the US contracting 1% …
in other words, regardless of who is elected in a few days, this economic turmoil is nowhere near over.
(btw - US GDP is released next week … current forecasts are for a 0.5% contraction, for all you “definition of recession” sticklers …)
By JokesOn
October 24, 2008 11:48 AM | Link to this
That’s a load of crap. That statement was a CHARACTERIZATION of what Greenspan said by the NYT.
Kind of like this statement?
I mean Barack HUSSEIN HAMAS Obama believes that Iran, North Korea and Cuba will be good citizens of the world without any restraints.
And seeing as you have been pro deregulation of all things capitalist, can you admit you were wrong like Al?
By USinUK
October 24, 2008 11:48 AM | Link to this
chuck -
BTW, Greenspan’s “crime” was that he expected CEO’s and their Boards to act in the best interest of THEIR OWN COMPANY. This should fit in with the philosophy that all you lefties hold shouldn’t it?
um. no, actually it doesn’t “fit in with the philosophy tht all we lefties hold” - most of us believe that corporations will screw anythign for short-term gains - the environment, the economy, their employees.
You said the NYT reported: before trying to parse his concession as thinly as possible.
yes, and he also said “Partly” when asked if he was responsible. In his testimony, Greenspan put the blame for the subprime collapse on over-eager investors who did not properly take into account the threats that would be posed once home prices stopped surging upward.
“It was the failure to properly price such risky assets that precipitated the crisis,” Greenspan said.
again, no taking responsibility there, either.
criminey, chuck, take off your blinkers. this isn’t a partisan issue - even the WSJ is comparing Greenspan to Claude Raines (shocked! shocked to find gambling on wall street).
You don’t want to regulate our ENEMIES, but you do want to regulate our JOB PROVIDERS.
congratulations. you win the most asinine thing I’ve read today award. “regulate” our enemies??? yeah, I’ll get the SEC right on that.
By k
October 24, 2008 11:55 AM | Link to this
You’re welcome, Chuck. I’ll point out that I do validate your claim because I do LOVE the Jews. Truly! However, our reasons differ. One trait I find endearing is their openmindedness and love of debate. They’ll listen to anything you put to them, but you’d better back it up with fact, logic, and reason, or it holds no water. They want you to impart understanding. They welcome it! But there’s absolutely no “beause I said so” bulldookey involved. (Unless maybe you’re talking with Orthodox peoples, but I’m not personally acquainted with any of those.) Also: no one feeds me better.
By k
October 24, 2008 11:55 AM | Link to this
You’re welcome, Chuck. I’ll point out that I do validate your claim because I do LOVE the Jews. Truly! However, our reasons differ. One trait I find endearing is their openmindedness and love of debate. They’ll listen to anything you put to them, but you’d better back it up with fact, logic, and reason, or it holds no water. They want you to impart understanding. They welcome it! But there’s absolutely no “beause I said so” bulldookey involved. (Unless maybe you’re talking with Orthodox peoples, but I’m not personally acquainted with any of those.) Also: no one feeds me better.
By USinUK
October 24, 2008 12:16 PM | Link to this
k -
One trait I find endearing is their openmindedness and love of debate. They’ll listen to anything you put to them, but you’d better back it up with fact, logic, and reason, or it holds no water. They want you to impart understanding. They welcome it! But there’s absolutely no “beause I said so” bulldookey involved.
one of the funniest yet most inspired explainations I’ve ever heard of the diff between Jews and Christians came from a Jewish guy I dated when I lived in Atlanta. He said (and I quote) “the biggest difference between Jews and Christians - besides the whole Christ is the Messiah thing - is that Jews don’t want to convert anyone.”
maybe that’s what makes them so open to debate. however, if you think about the whole pork and shellfish thing, they do have their own version of “because I said so”
By Sunshine
October 24, 2008 12:18 PM | Link to this
um. no, actually it doesn’t “fit in with the philosophy tht all we lefties hold” - most of us believe that corporations will screw anything for short-term gains - the environment, the economy, their employees.—AMEN! And who have been the BIGGEST facilitator of this whole “screw anything for short-term gains - the environment, the economy, their employees” philosophy? That is right, the guy in charge for the last 8 years, time for a new philosophy for government, don’t ya think?
By USinUK
October 24, 2008 12:29 PM | Link to this
:::: waving ::::
hi sunshine!!! :-)
By k
October 24, 2008 12:30 PM | Link to this
USinUK, yes, I’ve explained to my Jewish peeps that the obnoxious Christians aren’t TRYING to be hateful with the seemingly hateful things they say — it’s just that they believe they’re under a mandate to convert others. I tell them they don’t really hope you burn in hayull, but I’m just saying that to be diplomatic. Frankly, I think the idea of people burning in hayull for an eternity (and other inherently sadistic biblical references) gives a lot of “Christians” serious wood.
BTW, I have shared many a lobster, shrimp, and pork-rich meal with my Jewish peeps, including being served ham at Easter. They seem to prefer it to the taste of gefilte fish.
By USinUK
October 24, 2008 12:39 PM | Link to this
Frankly, I think the idea of people burning in hayull for an eternity (and other inherently sadistic biblical references) gives a lot of “Christians” serious wood.
sadly, the best way some (not all, but some) people have of feeling better about themselves is to feel badly about others.
By Bruno
October 24, 2008 12:58 PM | Link to this
The Jews WERE responsible for the crucifiction of Christ. That said, I don’t know of any Christians who hold a grudge against the Jews because of that.
I’ve heard many, many anti-Semitic remarks over the years from “Conservative Christians” like yourself, chuck. I’ll have to take your word for it that you personally have never made similar statements or harbored such thoughts.
Jews who fail to acknowledge Christ are lost and on their way to hell. We hold no animosity toward them for that.
Again, I’ll have to give you the benefit of the doubt here that your statement condemning all Jews to hell is made with nothing but love in your heart.
Christianity IS separate and distinct from DEAD RELIGION. It is based on God’s GRACE through the faith of believers IN HIM. It is not a religion, it is a FAITH and it is not based on rituals but in the PERSON of Jesus Christ.
If Judaism is a “dead religion”, then how do you not consider Christianity to be separate and distinct from Judaism? Also, glad to know that your particular church doesn’t perform any rituals such as dunking people in water or parroting certain phrases such as “accepting the Lord Jesus as your personal Savior”.
That plan is revealed in the Book of Revelations
FYI, it is known as the Book of Revelation. No “s”, chuck. I would chalk that up to a simple typo, but you’ve misspelled it twice this week already.
And, BTW, you still haven’t come up with a single Biblical example by which the Sabbath Day was changed by anyone, either by Jesus or any of the Apostles. The best you came up with is that Jesus spoke to Mary Magdalene and others on the “first day of the week” following the Crucifixion (note the proper spelling—no “ct” involved) along with a singular meeting of Paul and some other Apostles on one particular “first day of the week” in Acts. At the same time, I have pointed out that the Sabbath Day (Saturday) was continually observed from Genesis through Revelation with nary a word about changing it to another day.
But, if it’s that important for you to believe that you are “right” despite a mountain of evidence to the contrary, I’ll give you that satisfaction. You’re right, chuck, now and forever more.
By Bruno
October 24, 2008 1:12 PM | Link to this
I have a whole bunch of reasons, but none of them have to do with a “Christian’s” fanatical adherence to an oft-retranslated history book authored and edited repeatedly over the centuries by various groups of men who used it to secure money and power for themselves. I’m just sayin’
Well said, k.
one of the funniest yet most inspired explainations I’ve ever heard of the diff between Jews and Christians came from a Jewish guy I dated when I lived in Atlanta. He said (and I quote) “the biggest difference between Jews and Christians - besides the whole Christ is the Messiah thing - is that Jews don’t want to convert anyone.”
I do give the Jews a lot of respect for not proselytizing and attempting to “convert” anyone to their POV, but I DO have a problem with any group which designates itself “God’s chosen people”. Exactly what are the “rest of us” then??? That, along with the constant references to “5000 years of suffering”. Do they think that they are the only group which has suffered throughout history?
USinUK, yes, I’ve explained to my Jewish peeps that the obnoxious Christians aren’t TRYING to be hateful with the seemingly hateful things they say — it’s just that they believe they’re under a mandate to convert others. I tell them they don’t really hope you burn in hayull, but I’m just saying that to be diplomatic. Frankly, I think the idea of people burning in hayull for an eternity (and other inherently sadistic biblical references) gives a lot of “Christians” serious wood.
It does make one wonder…..
By chuck
October 24, 2008 1:25 PM | Link to this
USUK
um. no, actually it doesn’t “fit in with the philosophy tht all we lefties hold” - most of us believe that corporations will screw anything for short-term gains - the environment, the economy, their employees.
Thank you for proving my point. You are perfectly willing to allow America’s ENEMIES to have free reign (i.e. no UN inspections, no conditions on discussions, etc) because we know they would never provide nukes to terrorists or do anything to try to kill American soldiers, but those EVIL CORPORATIONS who give billions of dollars to charity, provide all of the non-governmental jobs in America, and pay a third of all the taxes in America just can’t be trusted.
Thank you for confirming my suspicions.
By Bruno
October 24, 2008 1:27 PM | Link to this
And seeing as you have been pro deregulation of all things capitalist, can you admit you were wrong like Al?
JokesOn—I feel compelled to jump in and defend MY new Messiah—chuck. He’s never wrong, by definition.
sadly, the best way some (not all, but some) people have of feeling better about themselves is to feel badly about others.
We’re all guilty of that, hon. Are you saying that you’re not? If not, then maybe I need to adopt two new Messiahs, you and chuckles.
um. no, actually it doesn’t “fit in with the philosophy tht all we lefties hold” - most of us believe that corporations will screw anythign for short-term gains - the environment, the economy, their employees.
The bottom line is that ALL corporate decisions are made by human beings. As such, I think it would be more accurate to say that PEOPLE will screw over their customers and neighbors for short-term gain. And while you “lefties” like to fantasize that only e-e-evil conservatives/Republicans are capable of such behaviors, my experience in life is a little different. In the case of the “mortgage crisis”, it is a FACT that the executives of FannieMae and FreddieMac lavished Democrats such as John Kerry, Chris Dodd, and Barrack Obama with hundreds upon hundreds of thousands of dollars in campaign contributions. In fact, I beleive there is an investigation underway right now by the FBI into a “sweetheart mortgage deal” given to Chris Dodd personally by Countrywide. I’m in somewhat of a foul mood today (like the rest of the world), so please spare me from your assertions that liberals/Democrats are blameless angels in all of this mess. Same to you, Sunshine.
By Sunshine
October 24, 2008 1:29 PM | Link to this
Hi USinUK!!
Hope everyone has a great weekend! Bruno, excellent rebuttal to Chuck! Kudos! I have noticed the S on Revelation too this week!
Sorry that I can’t post more but have to keep my nose to the grind stone for a few more hours!
By Bruno
October 24, 2008 1:34 PM | Link to this
yes, and he also said “Partly” when asked if he was responsible. In his testimony, Greenspan put the blame for the subprime collapse on over-eager investors who did not properly take into account the threats that would be posed once home prices stopped surging upward.
Two words for you , USinUK—Caveat Emptor. It’s just as true today as it was a few thousand years ago.
By Bruno
October 24, 2008 1:41 PM | Link to this
Hope everyone has a great weekend! Bruno, excellent rebuttal to Chuck! Kudos! I have noticed the S on Revelation too this week!
Well, shucks, thanks, Sunshine. But don’t forget, chuck is right, even when he changes the words of the Bible to suit his POV. As the new Messiah, I think he should have that right.
Sorry that I can’t post more but have to keep my nose to the grind stone for a few more hours!
Thanks for stopping by and saying “Hi”, you, you LIBERAL you!! Big hug to you!!
By GLue Gun
October 24, 2008 1:44 PM | Link to this
K! I am sure you shared a lot of sausage with your rich jewish friends too! They, like the blacks and stupid people, are voting for NoBAMA!
By Gale
October 24, 2008 1:47 PM | Link to this
My Jewish friends also cause me to roll my eyes at their attitudes about religion. Many of the “rules” fall into the ‘because-that’s-the-law realm, even though there is no rational purpose. I also get a strong sense of seperatist about them. We stay apart because we are right and we don’t want to be tainted by the rest o the people on the planet. IMO. That said, I’m an atheist and I really don’t care what they believe as long as it encourages them to do good.
NYT:Gov. Sarah Palin’s makeup artist was paid $22,800 for the first two weeks of October, according to a new filing.
They do realize that many people do not earn that much in a year don’t they? For someone championing common working folk, they are seriously missing the mark.
By Bruno
October 24, 2008 1:51 PM | Link to this
It is based on God’s GRACE through the faith of believers IN HIM. It is not a religion, it is a FAITH and it is not based on rituals but in the PERSON of Jesus Christ.
One last thought for you, New Messiah (chuck): Grace is defined in the Bible as the unmerited Love of God for us. Because it is unmerited, there is nothing we can do to earn it, whether through good works OR expressions of faith. Period. It is a gift, pure and simple.
By Bruno
October 24, 2008 2:02 PM | Link to this
JokesOn—I’m still waiting for a link which compares McCain’s tax plans with Obama’s—i.e. if Obama has ever settled on a single plan. Early in the campaign, Obama mentioned taxing people who earned more than $75,000 to $80,000 at a higher rate. That soon changed to those earning more than $150,000, then $200,000, then $250,000. Also, his claim that 95% of all small businesses would be unaffected by his new tax plan is extremely misleading. It is true that somewhere around 90% of all small businesses employ only a few people. However the 10% of “small businesses” which employ more than 1-4 employees actually employ the lion’s share of the total number of workers in the US. Quite a clever play on words by Obama.
Bottom line, once again, I don’t believe a word that Obama says. He thinks the true purpose of taxation is to redistribute the wealth, pure and simple. Although I am now in the bottom 1/2 of wage earners in the US, I don’t want a check from the government using money stolen from someone else.
By chuck
October 24, 2008 2:08 PM | Link to this
Thank you Brudog for being my spell-checker. And here I thought you were useless.
For CLARITY’s sake, the Sabbath was NOT observed “from Genesis to Revelation” as you say. It was established with the 10 commandments in the book of Exodus. The Genesis 2:3 reference was used by Moses to explain why the day was established in the giving of the law. Why else would he write:
Exodus 16:23 He said to them, “This is what the LORD commanded: ‘Tomorrow is to be a day of rest, a holy Sabbath to the LORD.
There is no record of observing the Sabbath until the Children of Israel left Egypt.
BTW, I assume you are being deliberately obtuse in your continued ignoring of the references that I gave you concerning the liberty given to believers in how/when they observed the Sabbath. You have yet to comment on those references, leading me to believe that you have no response.
As for this “question”
If Judaism is a “dead religion”, then how do you not consider Christianity to be separate and distinct from Judaism?
And this statement:
Also, glad to know that your particular church doesn’t perform any rituals such as dunking people in water or parroting certain phrases such as “accepting the Lord Jesus as your personal Savior”.
First, to answer your question, Christianity is more like a NEW CHAPTER in the same book. There are many individual distinctions between the 2, but after all, Almost ALL of the early followers of Christ were Jews. They viewed Jesus (as do we current Christians) as the completion of God’s plan for mankind…the Messiah. There is no contradiction here. He gave mankind a NEW COVENANT. It replaced the OLD COVENANT. Obviously God’s plan to a degree had been perverted by the Jews. It was not the Christians who left Judaism, it was the Jews. Scripture predicted pretty much every aspect of who this Messiah would be and when He came, the Jews chose to believe a lie. They maintained the RITUALS WITHOUT THE FAITH, holding on to RELIGION when they should have held on to CHRIST.
Baptism is not a “RITUAL”, at least in the sense that I used the term. A ritual in my opinion is something done for ceremony or as a matter of tradition that has little relevance to the PURPOSE of the ritual.
Baptism of new believers does several things.
First, it symbolizes what has happened in the believer’s life. His old self is dead, he is raised to a new life.
Second, it identifies the believer with Christ and His church, because he is following Christ’s example.
Third, It is a matter of obedience. Christ commanded His followers to Baptize new believers.
By Bruno
October 24, 2008 2:11 PM | Link to this
They do realize that many people do not earn that much in a year don’t they? For someone championing common working folk, they are seriously missing the mark.
Out of curiosity, Gale, do you feel like there is a double-standard in the media re: Sarah Palin in focusing on her clothing and makeup?? I don’t recall seeing any similar analysis of the cost of any of the other candidates’ clothing, including Hillary Clinton’s. While $150,000 for clothing sounds like a lot of money to us working stiffs, it is just a drop in the bucket of the total campaign costs.
Also, what say you regarding the obscene amount of money being raised and spent by the Obama campaign? So much for the days of the Democratic Party representing the “common man”. It seems like some of those hundreds and hundreds of millions of campaign dollars could feed a lot of hungry people in India and Africa rather than being spent on endless TV ads. Just a thought…..
By Monica
October 24, 2008 2:12 PM | Link to this
This is a test - I have sent two posts that did not go through for some reaon. IF this one goes through, I will try my previous post again. ARGH!
By chuck
October 24, 2008 2:17 PM | Link to this
No doubt that it is a gift, but in order for a gift to appropriated, it has to accepted. Faith is when we dicide to avail ourselves of that free gift. The Bible says it better than I ever could:
Ephesians 2:8 For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God—
By chuck
October 24, 2008 2:24 PM | Link to this
Hey Monica. I hope your year is going great. I am having a busy one myself. I’ve hardly had time to post.
Hey gang, it’s been great talking to you this week. Have a great weekend.
Hey Brudog, since I’ve picked up this new name from you should I start calling you Satan, since you oppose everything I say? Just wondering.
By chuck
October 24, 2008 2:27 PM | Link to this
oops…decide. Wouldn’t want the spelling police to arrest me.
By Bruno
October 24, 2008 2:30 PM | Link to this
BTW, I assume you are being deliberately obtuse in your continued ignoring of the references that I gave you concerning the liberty given to believers in how/when they observed the Sabbath. You have yet to comment on those references, leading me to believe that you have no response.
The Messiah speaks!!! Rest easy, chuck. As I said above, you are right, now and forever more. Don’t trouble yourself with the opinions of uneducated heathens like myself.
By Sunshine
October 24, 2008 2:33 PM | Link to this
JokesOn—I’m still waiting for a link which compares McCain’s tax plans with Obama’s—i.e. if Obama has ever settled on a single plan.
Ok, I’ll bite, only because I already have it book marked:
Obama and McCain Tax Proposals According to a new analysis by the Tax Policy Center, a joint project of the Urban Institute and the Brookings Institution, Democrat Barack Obama and Republican John McCain are both proposing tax plans that would result in cuts for most American families. Obama’s plan gives the biggest cuts to those who make the least, while McCain would give the largest cuts to the very wealthy. For the approximately 147,000 families that make up the top 0.1 percent of the income scale, the difference between the two plans is stark. While McCain offers a $269,364 tax cut, Obama would raise their taxes, on average, by $701,885 - a difference of nearly $1 million.
And there is a nice pretty chart on the acctual link here: (www. washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/story/2008/06/09/ST2008060900950.html) (remove the one space)
But since you already said: Bottom line, once again, I don’t believe a word that Obama says I don’t know why I am pointing it out to you! I mean that with all the love in the world Bruno, I love a good argument but if you have already made up your mind I don’t see the point of you asking for the info? Anyways, just a site, as you requested, that compares the two!
By Gale
October 24, 2008 2:35 PM | Link to this
A double standard related to Palin’s clothes? How about all women’s clothes? Obama has $1500 suits and nobody mentions it. Well, people did focus on Edward’s $400 haircut. It pretty much pales in light of Sarah’s makeup, doesn’t it. Did they look at how much people criticized Clinton’s clothes and looks? If Clinton had used campaign money to refresh her wardrobe, I am pretty sure it would have made the headlines. Would McCain have picked Palin if she was fat or homely?
Campaign funding? I am appalled at the money spent in this campaign. I am stunned that with something like $600 million spent, Obama is still in a close race. Sure, he is apparently ahead, but at what cost? I would not say the money should go to developing and hungry countries. But I do wonder where it is coming from. Big doners have come to light, in spite of the claims that most of it is from small doners. In an economic downturn, some small doners apparently are more committed to his campaign than to filling their gas tank or paying their mortgage. Perhaps, they think of it as an investment.
By Bruno
October 24, 2008 2:35 PM | Link to this
Baptism is not a “RITUAL”, at least in the sense that I used the term. A ritual in my opinion is something done for ceremony or as a matter of tradition that has little relevance to the PURPOSE of the ritual.
What’s with this “in my opinion” stuff, chuck? As the New Messiah, your Word is Law.
By Bruno
October 24, 2008 2:44 PM | Link to this
Obviously God’s plan to a degree had been perverted by the Jews. It was not the Christians who left Judaism, it was the Jews. Scripture predicted pretty much every aspect of who this Messiah would be and when He came, the Jews chose to believe a lie. They maintained the RITUALS WITHOUT THE FAITH, holding on to RELIGION when they should have held on to CHRIST.
Hmmmmm—No anti-Semitism in your views, fer sher!!
should I start calling you Satan, since you oppose everything I say? Just wondering.
To quote a Wiccan bumpersticker I saw last year: “It’s YOUR hell, YOU live in it”.
But since you already said: Bottom line, once again, I don’t believe a word that Obama says I don’t know why I am pointing it out to you! I mean that with all the love in the world Bruno, I love a good argument but if you have already made up your mind I don’t see the point of you asking for the info? Anyways, just a site, as you requested, that compares the two!
Good point, Sunshine!! I asked for the link because I often enjoy a good work of fiction.
By Bruno
October 24, 2008 2:54 PM | Link to this
Obama has $1500 suits and nobody mentions it.
If you reread my post, Gale, I stated “I don’t recall seeing any similar analysis of the cost of any of the other candidates’ clothing”
I was including the male candidates as well. I’ve been on W2W too long to make a sexist gaffe like that! You ladies would eat my lunch if I tried to separate the candidates by gender.
Would McCain have picked Palin if she was fat or homely?
Well, Bella Abzug won a seat in Congress back in the 70s. I’ll bite my tongue in regards to Hillary’s sex appeal. BTW, I DO get off on the “librarian look” exhibited by Sarah. Pull your hair up and put on a pair of glasses and I’m slivating like a dog!
By Gandalf, the Grey
October 24, 2008 3:06 PM | Link to this
“Obama lied, America cried, millions of Jews died” Headline when Ringadangadoodang drops the Iranian bomb on Isreal.
“Obama watches as Russia invades Georgia, says only “Change”“
By Gandalf, the Grey
October 24, 2008 3:06 PM | Link to this
“Obama lied, America cried, millions of Jews died” Headline when Ringadangadoodang drops the Iranian bomb on Isreal.
“Obama watches as Russia invades Georgia, says only “Change”“
By Sunshine
October 24, 2008 3:17 PM | Link to this
some small doners apparently are more committed to his campaign than to filling their gas tank or paying their mortgage.—Hey, hey there, easy now! I am one of those small doners! I have only given teeny tiny contributions but I am much happier to give my two $15 contribution and my one $10 one to someone I believe will be a good president than to give to the “Contribute to the presidential Election Campaign” box on my 1040. I understand wanting to put a cap on campaign finance in theory. But we live in a Capitalist society. And I believe Bruno, I have heard you and Gale talk about letting the market take care of it’s self, ( I could be wrong on the exact wording forgive me if I am) why does that not apply here? If more people believe in Mr. Obama and want to give him money to get elected why should they not be allowed? Especially when the caps are in place of $2500 (or what ever) per person! Sounds like sour grapes to me.
Ta-ta all, have a lovely weekend, I am off to an ultrasound to see the baby boy! Bye!
By Gale
October 24, 2008 3:20 PM | Link to this
Bruno, I didn’t care all that much about the money for Palin’s clothes, although I think it is inappropriate to spend campaign money for it. True, the wardrobe cost at that level probably does exceed what most of us make in a year. I find it disingenuous with her ‘hockey mom’ persona; especially the makeup. $24K for two weeks? And Bruno, almost any look on a pretty woman would have you salivating, based on your comments.
By Gale
October 24, 2008 3:28 PM | Link to this
Sunshine, Do you really think it should take $600 million to run a presidential campaign?
By Gale
October 24, 2008 3:33 PM | Link to this
BTW Sunshine, no offense intended. I did say “some small doners”. It is true that 6 million individuals giving $100 would make that mark. But it is not the reality.
By Bruno
October 24, 2008 3:58 PM | Link to this
And Bruno, almost any look on a pretty woman would have you salivating, based on your comments.
You know me to well, Gale…
Well, it looks like Andre and Shaunti finally came up with a better topic. C U all over at the new blog.