Woman to Woman

By USinUK

October 10, 2008 11:38 AM | Link to this

The end of July stats were more typical, with 83 percent of campaign stories featuring Obama, to 51 percent featuring Sen. John McCain

Wow. So the end of July – when the Dems were holding their convention and the GOP was in radio silence – the number of mentions of Obama was higher than McCain??? Gee. Why do you think that was?? Do you think it was because there was a Dem convention going on?? Do you think that there was also a lot of speculation about what Hillary’s convention folks were going to do?

And, in the months leading up, when it was a horserace between Obama and Hillary (while the GOP race was all sewn up for McCain), do you think that was WHY there were more stories about Obama than McCain? (and, again, look at all the crap that was flying from the Hillary camp – not all those Obama stories were positive)

And mentions do not equal positive stories. Criminey, look at the lipstick-on-a-pig brouhaha: Obama got p-LENTY of coverage that week. Was it good? No. So # of stories /= positive bias.

And what people think about the news???? Jeebus-on-a-pogo-stick … look at videos of rally attendees recently circulated on the internet and what these people think. They think ACORN is bad, but when pressed for specifics, they can’t tell you a thing about it. Most people think Fannie and Freddie are at fault for the current credit crisis, but can’t tell you why. What people think about the news doesn’t matter – what matters is the actual slant of the news. Show me THAT, Shaunti, or shaddup already.

As just two examples, Obama’s relationship with unrepentant former terrorist Bill Ayers remains “underground” or is minimized as “they hardly knew each other” (when that is demonstrably not true) instead of triggering a journalistic investigation into ideological similarities. (Can you imagine the media ignoring a similar story about John McCain?)

Funny you should ask because, you know, I can imagine that!! The news broke on Wednesday about the McCain connection with the Iran Contra organization US Council for World Freedom. Wednesday. He sat on the board for 6 years of a group which supported death squads that murdered, tortured and raped. Have we seen anything about it since then??? <<>>

It’s not that you’re such a flipping idiot that I find so insulting. It’s that you’re willfully an idiot – and are paid to be so.

By The Other Jack

October 10, 2008 11:45 AM | Link to this

Apparently, Andrea understands her limitations on this issue. It would be easier to go to Miami and stand on the street corner and convince the city that Castro is A-OK.

Shunti gives stat after stat. Andrea lists FOX News as the only anti-Obama biased news source out of NBC, CBS, ABC, CNN, MSNBC, PBS, Comedy Central and almost every other network on the planet, not to mention, the one stat she gives is in the New York Times, a proven wildly left leaning rag. Good job, Andrea. You know when to fold.

BTW. If Obama wins, so does FOX News. How many billions will they make by spending at least four years attacking Obama?

The most powerful thing Shaunti said was this: This media imbalance inevitably creates a massive advantage for Obama — or any Democrat. In such an environment, it is a testimony to the overwhelming conservativism of America that conservative presidents ever get elected.

This is tantamount to the propaganda techniques that have been used in the past to convert some of the most civilized and educated countries of their time into fascist states. Even with the obvious bias, the crazy policies and ignoring the fact that the country has been controlled by a Democratic Congress, both House and Senate for the two years that our economy has been driven into the ground, says some very troubling things about the level of indoctrination that so many Americans are subjected to.

Kimberly, yesterday you said that character didn’t matter, but what did matter was that our leader cares about us. So how do you know Obama cares about us? Because he said so? I thought his character was not worth defending. So how can you believe what he says?

The exact same argument was used to put Bill Clinton onto office. Character doesn’t matter, but what matters is that he cares about us. Clinton was elected because he promised the middle class Universal Health Care, a tax break for the middle class and tax increases for the more wealthy people in the country (Sound familiar?)

Clinton didn’t have a character worth defending either and within a few months, we got the largest tax increase in the history of the country and two years later, when the Republicans were able to take control of congress, any thought of Universal Health Care was far in the rear view mirror. He lied to us which is expected of anyone with no character. DUH?!?!?!

It is common knowledge that WWII got us out of the Great Depression, but the Iraq war, strangely enough, hurt our economy. Pumping 700 billion bucks back into the economy by giving people jobs hurt our country. Imagine that. But overnight, we just dumped the same amount down a hole that didn’t help anything or hire a soul, but Obama still is saying that he is going to give the middle class a tax break.

This is such an absolute and obvious lie that I am embarrassed for anyone who is still buying it. And with that tax break, he is going to invent a fair Health plan for all Americans. I just can’t help but see a proctologist snapping on that surgical glove as I read those words. Middle Class America. Bend over. It’s time. There’s not enough rich people to pay for this. Get out those check books, Joe Sixpack. You have taxes to pay.

BTW. The 700 billion dollars that we just flushed into oblivion would have paid for Universal Health Care for all Americans for the next ten years. And it was a Democratic Congress that pulled the handle. And Kimberly, you think they care about you.

But it all boils down to the power of this incredibly slanted media. It boils down to the power of the internet that is able to bombard many Americans with newsletter after newsletter after newsletter which further indoctrinates our citizens into believing what they are told and ignoring what they shouldn’t.

Our country is at a crossroads and because of this obscene effort on the half of some very dangerous people who control much of the media, I am afraid that we are going to take the wrong course.

By USinUK

October 10, 2008 11:52 AM | Link to this

So the end of July – when the Dems were holding their convention

d-oh. that was the end of August. my bad.

so, let’s see … in July, what was Obama doing??? could have been his European tour … you know, the one where 100s of 1000s of people came out to see him …

By USinUK

October 10, 2008 12:02 PM | Link to this

TOJ -

Shunti gives stat after stat.

Shaunti gives MEANINGLESS stat after MEANINGLESS stat.

again, the # of articles featured doesn’t mean that they were positive.

and what people think about the news??? that just gives their OPINION, it doesn’t mean that what they THINK is actually TRUE.

as the saying goes: opinions are like … everyone’s got one and they both stink.

By USinUK

October 10, 2008 12:25 PM | Link to this

TOJ -

And it was a Democratic Congress that pulled the handle.

Not to let the facts get in the way of your teeny-weeny tirade, but it was the President’s and the Treasury’s legislation. And the vote was 263-171 with slightly less than half of the House GOP helping it win passage. In the Senate, only 15 Republicans voted NO (out of 25 no votes).

so, to say this is a Dem bill is wrong. To say that the GOP had nothing to do with its passage is also dead wrong.

By USinUK

October 10, 2008 12:28 PM | Link to this

okay … I hated living in Connecticut … HATED IT … in fact, have managed to block a lot of that 2.25 years out of my head (especially the winters) …

but, CT has partially redeemed itself today:

Breaking News 11:39 AM ET: Connecticut State Supreme Court Overturns Ban on Same-Sex Marriage

woohoo!!! way to go you crazy nutmeggers!!!

By The Other Jack

October 10, 2008 12:45 PM | Link to this

USinUK

You area very smart person. I am floored that you would attempt to justify the accepted media bias that is steering this election.

I am attempting to dive deeper into media control than most people think about. I have asked you to go to the Goebbel’s speech site to start to understand the techniques he openly discusses about propaganda. I am not saying that democrats are NAZIs. I am saying that those same techniques that Goebbels used to convert the most educated country on the planet into NAZIs is being used here in America to slant our election process.

One of the techniques he harps on is the difference between news and entertainment. People rarely cry at news stories. People rarely laugh at news stories. What touches people is what touches their emotions and emotional news is poorly produced news.

But emotional entertainment is the very best entertainment. Comedy Central is the perfect example. To say that Comedy Central is not political, would be a pretty uninformed statement. In some polls, younger Americans go there to get their news instead of the news outlets. The news on Comedy Central is fun and funny, tapping into emotions.

Doesn’t it bother you that the only Conservative that is portrayed on this obviously popular, political network is an often unfair caricature of a Republican, while every single commentator is overtly liberally biased?

As my best client said to me: “Why do you worry about that crap. there is nothing we can do about this”. He is right. I stopped yelling at other drivers when my GF pointed out that no matter how upset I get, the other guy is never going to get any smarter or become a better driver.

So I understand, as Kimberly says, my points are moot. It is right in front of you, but you will never see it. But if i can just get you to even consider what has happened to our entertainment world and how it is so horribly used to unfairly change minds is all I can hope for.

I, like Andrea understand my limitations.

By Really?

October 10, 2008 12:46 PM | Link to this

I’ve said this for years…if the liberal media in the late 30’s and early 40’s had been so in love with the Nazi’s, we might have been able to avoid WWII altogether.

What with printing stories day after day, of course Hitler was going to win in Poland. Damn liberal media!

By The Other Jack

October 10, 2008 12:54 PM | Link to this

USinUK

to say this is a Dem bill is wrong. To say that the GOP had nothing to do with its passage is also dead wrong.

Yes and to say that the Democrats didn’t also support going to Iraq would be wrong, but I have heard you say time after time that it was the Republicans that put us into Iraq. You can’t have it both ways. The democrats are in charge, girl. Accept that. What laws are passed and what moves that our government takes is controlled by a democratically controlled Congress.

And to the Connecticut amendment. Even though a majority of Americans are against this, (I couldn’t care less, as long as gay couples have the same rights as married people) it is becoming the norm and soon there will be no opposition to a Federal Law, yet another issue that has been heavily touted by a very liberal news media and an extremely biased entertainment world. We will be accepting what the minority wants wheter we like it or not.

By Gale

October 10, 2008 1:11 PM | Link to this

I love it. because the institution of marriage carries with it a status and significance that the newly created classification of civil unions does not embody.” It is still a very long battle, though. Six states have decided on the constituionality of same-sex marriage; three for and three against. 44 states to go.

I found it odd that the state argued for the ban using the tired aguement that there was no discrimination because gays and lesbians can marry, just not the same sex, and because the rule is applied to both sexes, there is no discrimination. Yawn.

By Bruno

October 10, 2008 1:15 PM | Link to this

At the risk of playing the “blame game”, I thought some of you might enjoy this clip of Obama on YouTube from 2 years:

www.youtube.com/watch?v=MGTcSi7Rs

While there is enough blame to go around for the current credit/housing crisis, at least a few Republicans, including John McCain, tried to sound the warning bells while Barney Frank, Obama, and a host of other Democrats were whistling past the graveyard.

By Gale

October 10, 2008 1:16 PM | Link to this

TOJ, the majority does not want this war. “We will be accepting what the minority wants wheter we like it or not.” The door swings both ways. But on the issue of gay marriage, the opinion against is getting smaller every year.

By JustaJew

October 10, 2008 1:21 PM | Link to this

As far as this whole gay marriage thing is concerned, I’m still just waiting on a viable reason why it “threatens” a traditional marriage. I’ve yet to see a logical explanation as to why this would be so detrimental to one man, one woman. Could someone please help me out?

By Bruno

October 10, 2008 1:25 PM | Link to this

I lost a lot of faith in McCain during the last debate when he proposed a government buyout plan to the tune of $300,000,000,000 for people whose house is now worth less than what they paid for it. While I have some sympathy for any homeowner caught in that situation, at the same time I feel no moral obligation for my hard-earned tax dollars to go to folks who bought homes they knew they couldn’t afford, inflated appraisal values and all.

In other words, because I have chosen to live below my means, I am now being called upon to help those who live above their means. That stinks.

By Sunshine

October 10, 2008 1:29 PM | Link to this

Here is just another example of that Crazy liberal media, I guess they really shouldn’t report stories like this, right Republicans? I guess the pillow talk of our American troops to their wives SHOULD be spied on my the American government, and no one should talk about it, we are such silly liberals ::Snark::

(www.abcnews.go.com/Blotter/story?id=5998860&page=1)

A Senate panel is probing claims top secret government workers eavesdropped on communications from American service members, journalists and aid workers overseas. Brian Ross reveals what the government heard on wiretaps.

Announcing the probe, Senate intelligence committee chair Jay Rockefeller (D-WV) called the allegations, made on ABC News, “extremely disturbing.”

House intelligence committee chair Silvestre Reyes is also looking for answers from the National Security Agency (NSA) about its apparent violations of Americans’ privacy. “The NSA let us know that your story may be coming down the pipeline,” a spokeswoman for Reyes told ABC News Thursday. “We went ahead and made an inquiry and have been in contact with NSA We’re awaiting further information.”

Off of Capitol Hill, reaction was swift and sharp to the news that U.S. intelligence officials listened in to hundreds of private conversations, including pillow talk between U.S. military officers and their spouses.

“This outrageous episode is a reminder that government spying powers can be used to invade the most intimate thoughts of even the most trustworthy people,” noted Lisa Graves of the Center for National Security Studies, and a former Justice Department official.

“Today’s report is an indictment not only of the Bush administration, but of all of those political leaders, Democratic and Republican, who have been saying that the executive branch can be trusted with surveillance powers that are essentially unchecked,” charged Jameel Jaffer, director of the national security program at the American Civil Liberties Union.

“When they say trust us, we’re not listening in on Americans – this shows that they are,” said Jennifer Granick of the San Francisco-based Electronic Frontier Foundation (EFF). Her group is suing the federal government to stop warrantless eavesdropping programs and hold government officials accountable. “This should be of concern to everybody.”

I guess we really should be voting for more of these Right-wingers that tell us “we will only do good with the broad and unprecedented powers you HAVE TO GIVE US RIGHT NOW OR YOU ALL WILL DIE!” Right….

And yeah for CT’s supreme court recognizing human rights! Hope more of this country does that!

By kimberly

October 10, 2008 1:35 PM | Link to this

TOJ, you put the “less” in “pointless.” If you have to twist my words and take them out of context to make a point, you have none. I never said “character doesn’t matter.” I made the point in the context of the discussion that the character issues are moot right now because (a) we could go t-t for tat all day on who knew whom and NO ONE comes out clean in the dirty-by-association game — certainly not McCain or Palin, and (b) people are concerned with the reports of our own impending financial demise, as is to be expected.

I did indeed say that I (my choice) would vote for the smart guy (adjective sustainable with facts) who SEEMS to give a sh—. Unlike YOU, I do not claim to have a crystal ball that can read the minds and intents of every other human on the planet. McCain SEEMS like an arrogant a—hole… *to me. * Last time I checked, I was indeed allowed to have an opinion, although my vote may or may not actually count.

Perhaps it’s YOU to whom character doesn’t matter! If it did, you wouldn’t be so insistent on making every American who doesn’t agree with you 100% on everything into YOUR ENEMY. (While praising America’s real internal enemies, like the b******* who perpetrated Iran-Contra.) Based on the way you love to poke your large, angry, middle-aged finger into the chest of everyone who happens by, honest discourse does not appear to be your intent; hence the basis of my assumption, with no claim to actually knowing what demons dwell inside your head. If we are enemies, as you SEEM to desire with at least half your fellow Amerians, it’s your doing, not ours, and your issue to suck on until your head implodes. washing my hands

By Gale

October 10, 2008 1:36 PM | Link to this

In other words, because I have chosen to live below my means, I am now being called upon to help those who live above their means. That stinks.

With you 100%, Bruno.

Sunshine, Don’t you just shudder deep down when a politician says, “Trust me.”

By Bruno

October 10, 2008 1:42 PM | Link to this

Wow—the YouTube video I saw this AM has already been yanked.(?) Here’s a second link which details Obama’s involvement in the housing crisis:

mediacircus.com/2008/10/obama-sued-citibank-under-cra-to-force-it-to-make-bad-loans/

By RF

October 10, 2008 1:46 PM | Link to this

but instead to specific organizations that encouraged children to be more rebellious and to question everything, in other words to become little anarchists

Name those organizations please. I’m not trying to bait you, I just really need to know the facts. I’ve been waiting for the “smoking gun” on this issue. So far, I’ve heard plenty of talk about the Weather Underground but no real, substantive terroristic, anarchistic, or un-American connection between Obama and Ayers. Remember, btw, Annenberg was a devoted Republican and his foundation doesn’t give money willy-nilly to anyone. Everything I’ve found online is documented, transparent, approved by Annenberg, and catalogued as research for future use.

As to the current issue, media is what it is. They lean towards the leader in the polls. MSNBC is clearly leftist, and Fox is clearly right-wing. Big deal!! If McCain were in the lead and were the popular favorite over the last year, the Obama camp would be claiming predujudice and unfair attention. CNN appears to be balancing coverage somewhat depending on which show you watch. Seems simple to me. If you want conservative coverage, you watch conservative channels/shows. If you want liberal, do the same. Easy solution.

By The Other Jack

October 10, 2008 1:50 PM | Link to this

Gale

They don’t want the war now, but they sure did when it started.

Yep, when any issue is forced on the people, after years of overt propaganda, no matter how unfair the issue, the consensus will change.

I personally think this issue will sway the polls a little toward McCain. A few people realize that we are looking at a government that could not give a damn what the people want. The VAST majority of Americans wanted drilling at the end of the last session, and by God, Pelosi went home, wouldn’t allow even a word of debate on the issue.

I understand that the gay marriage bill may seem like a victory to you. I would consider it a victory if you got the rights that I so desperately wanted when I just lost a loved one. I was just the boyfriend. I had to leave the room while she was dying. That hurt.

But this isn’t about those rights. It’s about an issue that the majority of Americans agree against, but not a matter of rights, but a matter of “status and significance”. Status and significance? That’s all it takes? Just Status to make our government support a very emotional issue which most Americans are against?

This is great for you, Gale. but what if that same thin criteria is used to decide things that could hurt us all? Like flushing enough money to give us all health care for 10 years?

We should all be terrified. Our government is not ours anymore. And that also means you.

By Bruno

October 10, 2008 1:53 PM | Link to this

With you 100%, Bruno.

Thanks for the shout, Gale. For the first time in my life, I have lost complete faith in those who are “leading” us. I’ve been sounding the alarm bells on W2W for more than a year regarding the credit crisis—why did it take a near-complete collapse of the banking industry before those in power decided to take action??

The only honest, viable solution I see to the whole mess is to do what Steve Wynn, Donald Trump, and others are advocating: Instead of continuing this charade by artificially supporting the inflated house prices via a government “bailout” of individual homeowners, the banks need to simply sell the foreclosed properties for what they are worth and let us go back to square one in rebuilding the economy.

By The Other Jack

October 10, 2008 1:59 PM | Link to this

Kimberly

Unfortunately, that’s the response I expected. I did not say a single bad thing about you. i treated you with respect and understanding. I didn’t preach to you, I did plead with you.

And your answer was three paragraphs of a concentrated personal attack, an answer that completely and totally supports my assertion that many on your side of the isle has no argument, but only hysterics and emotions.

I’m not going to attack you. I just ask that you don’t engage me in a debate if you can’t emotionally handle my answers.

By Bruno

October 10, 2008 2:09 PM | Link to this

As to the current issue, media is what it is. They lean towards the leader in the polls.

RF—I have to disagree with you on this point. Back when Hillary was leading Obama in the polls, he continued to receive a disproportionate share of favorable media attention while she was raked over the coals at every turn.

By The Other Jack

October 10, 2008 2:13 PM | Link to this

RF

I am working and typing between renders. I do not have time to look up the beneficiaries that Obama choose. But I can tell you to go to William Ayers Website. I had a chance to look around it for quite a while the other day. Check out his links to the education programs he supports. I know you well enough to know that you are smart and fair. I don’t want to send you to some Newsmax website. Go to the horse’s mouth. Go to Bill Ayers.

News is not propaganda. Entertainment can be used for propaganda. It is being used at an unprecedented degree right now from a grosely left leaning Hollywood. If you can’t see that, there is nothing I can do.

I’m not worried about CNN and MSNBC. A person would need to be living in a hole to not have heard about which news channel likes who. I’m worried about comedy central and The View and The Late Show with David Letterman and every morals play that has come out of Hollywood for the last 40 years. Why aren’t you?

(And please, spare me the six or seven examples from over the past 40 years of a conservative leaning show, if you can think of even that many)

By Gale

October 10, 2008 2:15 PM | Link to this

The thing is, TOJ, are “most” Americans against this? Are you so sure? But even so, it is a matter of equal status under the law. If you get to vote on whether I marry, I want the right to vote on whether you marry.

And since you brought it up… I don’t want to take you back to a hurtful moment, but I have a question. YOur GF was not a citizen, if I remember correctly. Was there some reason you were restrained from marriage?

Bruno, sell the foreclosed properties for what they are worth I tend to agree. My partner says they should renegotiate those loans. I tend to disagree with her. But the goal for both positions is to get someone paying for those properties. While the properties are sitting in default, there is no money moving. We need the money to flow for the mess to resolve itself.

By Sunshine

October 10, 2008 2:18 PM | Link to this

TOJ—Ok, thanks for the laugh, this is the best line of the day:

“We will be accepting what the minority wants wheter we like it or not.” you know kinda like, hmmmm, ending slavery, or giving women the right to work, or setting child labor laws or you know, civil rights. I guess according to you unless we all agree its the right thing to do we shouldn’t do it, well then God help us all!

By RF

October 10, 2008 2:19 PM | Link to this

TOJ- You’re sounding paranoid again. There are issues out there that challenge us. Voters- people just like you and me and all the rest, have a voice. People have actually been exercising their right to representation and calling senators and congressmen in record numbers of late. If the reps do it right, great. If they do it wrong, we get together and vote them out. There aren’t quick solutions, but we still have a vote and a right to demand the representation we need. Conservatives want us to be scared and to blindly trust their notions without asking questions or challenging their mistakes. I’m much more afraid of that than I am trying something new. If it doesn’t work, we have the right in the next election to change it. Simple as that.

What so many fear is change and the idea that ideas other than those fed to us by Big Brother Republican could actually work. There are liberal plans out there that succeed. We’re in a financial slump and we’ve been there before. The two-party system has worked in every decade to get us out of recessions, and they will again. It took both parties to cause this mess- let’s quit pointing fingers and call upon our representatives to fix the problem.

As to gay rights, the majority sentiment will eventually rule. What may surprise you is that the moral tide may turn as it eventually does when a group demands what it deserves. African-Americans got some rights and the country hasn’t fallen apart yet. You know exactly how it feels to be excluded. Don’t let that hurt consume you, but don’t forget it either. Imagine spending decades with a person and having that happen. No way that could be called fair even if current majority opinion still moves against it.

By kimberly

October 10, 2008 2:24 PM | Link to this

Gee whillickers and jumpin jeehosephats, once again I’M SO SORRY! Saying someone said something she didn’t say is “respect and understanding?” Awwww, how sweeeet!! Thanks for clearing that up for me! My apologies for misreading your impeccably purest of intents. Guess I should go to “debate school” to learn to take someone else’s words out of context with all the panache that you do, “my friend.” Got a lot of catching up to do. You’re the BEST!

BTW, since character and morals matter so much, how do you feel about McCain calling his wife the C-word in public? I mean, that’s not a character issue, is it? Not sure how I’m supposed to feel about that and Fox News hasn’t mentioned it lately…

By Sunshine

October 10, 2008 2:27 PM | Link to this

USinUK

On a side note I really wish I could share (since it is snack day) I am enjoying the most delicious home made key lime cream pot (its kinda like key lime pie but you put it in ramekins with the gram crackers on top) Made it myself last night, fresh squeezed key limes and all! Store bought key lime pie is always too sweet if you have ever had the real thing from FL. This one is making me pucker, just like it should! Here’s one for you!

&&& ( )

By RF

October 10, 2008 2:28 PM | Link to this

I’m worried about comedy central and The View and The Late Show with David Letterman and every morals play that has come out of Hollywood for the last 40 years. Why aren’t you?

I can tell you why they don’t bother me. If folks are dumb enough to be swayed by any of those shows as “authorities” (and I’m sure some people do believe them), then so be it. There are plenty of narrow-minded easily duped people in every political party. I’ve seen as many idiots on the religious channels that get as much air time as Comedy Central. I honestly think many more people than you might like to realize form opinions based more on their upbringing and what their friends think than on what they hear on The View or one of the ridiculous Comedy Central shows (which aren’t even funny if you ask me).

I’ll check Ayers’ site. I gotta tell you though, the money from Annenberg wasn’t spent on any shifty organizations. Ayers may support all kinds of things, but he didn’t have say-so about the foundation money. In fact, he was only on the startup board. He wasn’t on the final guiding board of the Chicago organization once the Annenberg funded projects began.

By Just Sayin'

October 10, 2008 2:29 PM | Link to this

— only 75 days til Christmas.

Happy Holidays!

By USinUK

October 10, 2008 2:29 PM | Link to this

TOJ -

in no particular order …

Yes and to say that the Democrats didn’t also support going to Iraq would be wrong, but I have heard you say time after time that it was the Republicans that put us into Iraq.

bollocks. I have never said that. Dems did support going to Iraq - based on the lies that were fed to us by this administration’s decision to cherry-pick what intel they would give credence to and what they would (conveniently) ignore.

and, no. Congress does NOT have the same access to intel that the WH has.

I am not saying that democrats are NAZIs. I am saying that those same techniques that Goebbels used to convert the most educated country on the planet into NAZIs is being used here in America to slant our election process.

shorter TOJ: “you’re not nazis, but you act like them”

please. just because you don’t like it doesn’t mean it’s slanted. I remember the president calling “press conferences” every week when he was running for reelection, then standing before the cameras and campaigning. funny how the GOP wasn’t complaining about “bias” then when the media gave him free air time.

In some polls, younger Americans go there to get their news instead of the news outlets. The news on Comedy Central is fun and funny, tapping into emotions.

and here is where your limited understanding of history shines through. this is a free-market media. if you CHOOSE to get your news from FOX, Comedy Central, MSNBC, Keith O, Bill O or Black Helicopters Weekly, that is YOUR CHOICE. The Nazis advocated propaganda via government-run media.

Doesn’t it bother you that the only Conservative that is portrayed on this obviously popular, political network is an often unfair caricature of a Republican

well, since I’m not a frat boy, I don’t sit around and watch CC all day. I catch DS when I can, but that’s the only programming I’ve ever seen. The handful of times I’ve seen South Park, they’ve skewered libs just as much as cons.

and, again - IT’S ENTERTAINMENT. you want to complain about entertainment for what it is, then fine. but to hold it to journalistic standards is just asinine.

By Bruno

October 10, 2008 2:32 PM | Link to this

The thing is, TOJ, are “most” Americans against this? Are you so sure? But even so, it is a matter of equal status under the law. If you get to vote on whether I marry, I want the right to vote on whether you marry.

Gale—My understanding is that a large majority of Americans (including myself) support the right of same-sex couples to enjoy the same legal benefits of hetero couples, but remain uncomfortable with using the same word, “marriage”, to describe the dissimilar unions. You might consider that to be a case of “splitting hairs”, but I don’t. It strikes directly at the heart of what is considered “normal”.

By USinUK

October 10, 2008 2:36 PM | Link to this

Brunoooooooooooooooo -

the primary person who should be blamed in this mess is Alan mother-effing Greenspan.

because, contrary to popular opinion, the house bubble - while bad - is not the be-all and end-all of the problem. As I and Mara have said in the past - it’s the derivatives that should have been regulated (and the mortgage lenders - all of which is the Fed’s purview)

and what did we get??? years of Greenspan’s “frothiness” BS. We got him saying that “the market will regulate itself”. Heck, when Warren Buffet calls derivatives a nightmare waiting to happen - when even TPJ’s favorite bogeyman, George Soros, says he wouldn’t touch them with a bargepole, why were they left to flourish unmonitored???

for a great article, check out today’s NYT write-up called “The Reckoning” - it gives a great history of derivatives, how they work and AG’s role in the whole debacle.

(and for those of you who care, people who hold Lehman derivatives are going to be paid about $0.10 on the dollar - so, expect the market swirly to continue)

By Bruno

October 10, 2008 2:39 PM | Link to this

Also—a correction from earlier this week: I thought the current budget for the CDC was around $6 Billion, when it is actually $8.8 Billion. Under Clinton, the CDC budget was around $2.8 Billion. In other words, all you lovers of the CDC here on W2W need to tip your caps to Bush for tripling their budget. I won’t hold my breath waiting for any of you to give credit where credit is due.

Some of you should also consider giving Bush credit for doing more in Africa to combat both malaria and AIDS than any previous US Prez, including Clinton. Again, I won’t hold my breath waiting….

By USinUK

October 10, 2008 2:40 PM | Link to this

Sunshine -

We will be accepting what the minority wants wheter we like it or not.” you know kinda like, hmmmm, ending slavery, or giving women the right to work, or setting child labor laws or you know, civil rights. I guess according to you unless we all agree its the right thing to do we shouldn’t do it, well then God help us all!

man! you are so my hero today!!! so much so, I think that even the Foo Fighters would want me to play their song in your honor!!

By USinUK

October 10, 2008 2:46 PM | Link to this

TOJ -

• A large majority of Americans (including myself) support the right of same-sex couples to enjoy the same legal benefits of hetero couples, but remain uncomfortable with using the same word, “marriage”, to describe the dissimilar unions. You might consider that to be a case of “splitting hairs”, but I don’t. It strikes directly at the heart of what is considered “normal”.*

do yourself a favor and read Loving v. Virginia …

a lot of people were against miscegenation, too - felt it wasn’t norma. that it went against the laws of nature.

do you really want to play for the same team???

me, I want Gale and her partner to have the same rights Mr. USinUK and I do - why??? because, as the cons have been telling us for years, marriage leads to healther communities, stronger partnerships and better family units.

GOOOOOOOOOOOOOO CONNECTICUT!!!

By Sunshine

October 10, 2008 2:47 PM | Link to this

Come on tell me again how this financial deregulation that lead to the economic ruin is the democrats fault, tell me how its all Hairy Reeds fault, or you could read the facts, you know, it is public info:

In 1999, John McCain voted for passage of the Senate version of a bill that would eliminate current barriers erected by the 1933 Glass-Steagall Act and other laws that impede affiliations between banking, securities, insurance and other firms. The bill also would exempt small, non-urban banks from the 1977 Community Reinvestment Act (CRA), revise the Federal Home Loan Bank system and require that owners of automated teller machines (ATMs) provide notice on the ATM and on-screen of any charges imposed for the use of the terminal.

The bill passed 54-44. [S. 900, Vote #105, 5/6/99]

Voted Yes

McCain (R-AZ) Gramm (R-TX) Santorum (R-PA) Specter (R-PA) Kyl (R-AZ) Craig (R-ID) Hutchinson (R-AR) Lott (R-MS) Cochran (R-MS) Lugar (R-IN) Helms (R-NC) Sessions (R-AL) Thurmond (R-SC) Hutchison (R-TX) Bennett (R-UT) Hollings (D-SC)

Voted No

Biden (D-DE) Reid (D-NV) Boxer (D-CA) Feinstein (D-CA) Edwards (D-NC) Kennedy (D-MA) Feingold (D-WI) Breaux (D-LA) Landrieu (D-LA) Kerry (D-MA) Lieberman (D-CT) Moynihan (D-NY) Schumer (D-NY)

By Bruno

October 10, 2008 2:48 PM | Link to this

On a side note I really wish I could share (since it is snack day) I am enjoying the most delicious home made key lime cream pot (its kinda like key lime pie but you put it in ramekins with the gram crackers on top) Made it myself last night, fresh squeezed key limes and all! Store bought key lime pie is always too sweet if you have ever had the real thing from FL. This one is making me pucker, just like it should! Here’s one for you!

Watch that figure, Sunshine! ; > }

By The Other Jack

October 10, 2008 2:50 PM | Link to this

Kimberly,

You may notice that I don’t go out of my way to defend stupid things Republicans do. if i misrepresent what you said, tell me that. Why does it have to be this teeth gritting, turning the blade, death to you and your family answer?

I am very passionate about what i see the media is doing to my country. All I know about you is what I see on here. I don’t know you, and you don’t know me. i’m really trying to be better at keeping this from going down to the screaming matches that it once was, but those matches were never about issues, they were about personalities.

The problem with your dismissal of the character issue by saying that nobody is perfect is that the books cannot be closed on past actions. Yes, lets look at and discuss the issues about Rev. Wright, Bill Ayers, the dirty money from Fanny Mae and Freddie Mac. And let’s discuss the Alaskan Nutcase anti American Party and Todd Palen and let’s discuss Iran / Contra, but don’t call someone names and run away.

I have defended Iran/Contra and have been attacked for doing it. Sunshine tried to dispute what I was saying by posting more and more details, all of which supported my argument, but no one even attempted to tell me why it was so wrong. We were fighting communists in Central America and supporting efforts to subvert the Islamic Crazies that are now threatening the world in Iran. Please explain why that was wrong.

The rebels were some pretty rough characters, but the Communist Regime was committing genocide. And needless to say, if we could have subverted the current Iranian government, wouldn’t that be a good thing?

As far as the “Smart Guy”. The smart guy is smart enough to become the leader of the free world. Whether he uses that intelligence to benefit you or me or him is totally up for grabs. I’m thinking a REALLY smart guy will use his intelligence to help him first, his political aspirations second. his inner circle third and pages and pages and pages later, he might get to you. Me? I’m not on the list.

By Gale

October 10, 2008 2:51 PM | Link to this

Bruno, Yes, and I don’t want to dwell on gay marriage because that isn’t the topic and it won’t go anywhere anyway. The real problem is federal recognition anyway.

By Bruno

October 10, 2008 2:53 PM | Link to this

because, contrary to popular opinion, the house bubble - while bad - is not the be-all and end-all of the problem. As I and Mara have said in the past - it’s the derivatives that should have been regulated (and the mortgage lenders - all of which is the Fed’s purview)

I can’t disagree with you regarding the role that the “creative repackaging” of mortgages played in the crisis, but underneath it all, the root problem remains that millions of unqualified homebuyers were allowed to purchase overpriced homes which they couldn’t pay for. If people were paying off their mortgages on time, there would be no crisis.

By Gandalf, the Grey

October 10, 2008 2:55 PM | Link to this

Kimberly, PLEASE STFU! You (Dumbass) slut!

By USinUK

October 10, 2008 2:56 PM | Link to this

Sunshine -

taunting Brunooooooooooo and me with key lime cream pots is just … mean. mean. mean. MEAN!!!

Brunoooooooooooo -

the Loving v. Virginia comment should have been directed to you, not TOJ

a lot of people were against interacial marriages because they felt it wasn’t normal - doesn’t mean they were right.

By Mara

October 10, 2008 3:04 PM | Link to this

Bruno - …but remain uncomfortable with using the same word, “marriage”, to describe the dissimilar unions

how are the relationships “dissimilar”? I can’t see how Adam and Steve’s union would be any different from any other marriage.

TOJ - speaking of Nazi-ism…do you have any idea where “enhanced interrogation techniques” came from? Yup. Verbatim from the Gestapo handbook. Go ahead…google it. “Enhanced interrogation techniques” or even the original German “Verschärfte Vernehmung”.

It’s not terribly smart to toss out accusations of Nazi-ism when it’s your party that embraces their odious methods.

By Sunshine

October 10, 2008 3:05 PM | Link to this

Bruno

I don’t mean this as a personal attack, I usually find your positions fair, and although they usually differ from mine, level headed, that being said:

Gale—My understanding is that a large majority of Americans (including myself) support the right of same-sex couples to enjoy the same legal benefits of hetero couples, but remain uncomfortable with using the same word, “marriage”

At one point in our history a large portion of the population thought that “separate but equal” was appropriate treatment for people of color. They saw nothing wrong with segregating everything from restrooms and water fountains to schools and hotels. I thought we, as a country, had moved away from that notion.

By Bruno

October 10, 2008 3:07 PM | Link to this

a lot of people were against miscegenation, too - felt it wasn’t norma. that it went against the laws of nature. do you really want to play for the same team???

USinUK—I don’t think that recognizing that heterosexual and homosexual unions are biologically different qualifies me as some kind of racist.

me, I want Gale and her partner to have the same rights Mr. USinUK and I do - why??? because, as the cons have been telling us for years, marriage leads to healther communities, stronger partnerships and better family units.

If you reread my comment, I am in full support of granting the same legal rights to gay couples as are afforded to hetero couples. Did you read me differently?

Bruno, Yes, and I don’t want to dwell on gay marriage because that isn’t the topic and it won’t go anywhere anyway. The real problem is federal recognition anyway.

Gale, acceptance of gay couples has moved forward light-years since I was a kid. In my community, it wasn’t safe to announce that you were gay.

We will be accepting what the minority wants wheter we like it or not.” you know kinda like, hmmmm, ending slavery,

Quick side note, Sunshine: Up in the North, a majority of people wiched to end slavery. It was all of you Southerner’s relatives that wanted to continue the practice. Rednecks. ; > } (just kidding you)

By The Other Jack

October 10, 2008 3:07 PM | Link to this

USinUk

I have GOT to get to work, but I’m going to try this. And if I don’t talk to you anymore, have a good weekend.

OK. Have you ever driven a volkswagon? You must be a NAZI. How about driven on an Interstate highway. You NAZI, you. Those are both examples of NAZI thinking that turned out to be the accepted standard for highway engineering.

Goebbels is the father of modern propaganda. The power of his teachings is demonstrated when you see the fact that by using those powers, he was able to convert an educated and civilized country into NAZIs. That doesn’t mean that the only thing that can result from his teachings is a goose stepping bunch of lunies.

The techniques are about messaging. You said that you were a journalism major. You HAD to study this stuff. The message can change, but the techniques that Goebbels used have been proven over and over again.

I will agree about South Park. They are only fair, and certainly not any sort of counter to the other 23 hours a day of overt left-speak.

I would agree about your issue about it being an issue of choice except that there is no choice. It is one right leaning news source or all the rest. And that means absolutely NO entertainment choices that overtly present a Republican slant in entertainment programming.

Enjoy youir weekend. UsinnerU

By USinUK

October 10, 2008 3:10 PM | Link to this

Mara -

well done!

GtG -

did you see my reply to your barbed-wire story?? the guy wasn’t using it at his house, he was using it at an allotment. If you don’t have them where you live, allotments are large tracts (3-4 acres) that are divvied up into plots for people to lease, allowing them to plant whatever they want. In other words, this is a very public area.

while I feel bad for the guy that he’s had his tools stolen, this is a family space - kids run around while their parents are doing their gardening - it really isn’t the place for 3’ of barbed wire.

By Bruno

October 10, 2008 3:11 PM | Link to this

how are the relationships “dissimilar”?

LMAO—I’d have to show you that in person, Mara. ; > }

By The Other Jack

October 10, 2008 3:13 PM | Link to this

Mara

No one is charging anyone with NAZIsm. Read my post to USinUK.

Jeeze, why is this so hard?

I don’t ever want to discuss cars with you because i like volkswagons. Does that make me a NAZI?

I drive on the interstate. They are a direct result of the autobon. Hitler’s idea. I admit it. I like driving on the interstate. I even like taking the exits really fast.

I’m so ashamed.

By Sunshine

October 10, 2008 3:18 PM | Link to this

Watch that figure, Sunshine! ; > }

Ok, Bruno, I don’t know if I got on your bad side today or what, but you do know its dangerous to speak to a pregnant woman about her weight don’t you???? That is unless you are complimenting it while bringing her chocolate and ice cream? :-) I will let it go today though, cause I really do like you!

I am doing well with my weight for the pregnancy though, (Since YOU brought it up!) it is interesting that providing for someone else is the best incentive to cut out all the junk, preservatives and unhealthy stuff I might let myself eat! Best diet ever!

By USinUK

October 10, 2008 3:18 PM | Link to this

Brunoooooooo -

the root problem remains that millions of unqualified homebuyers were allowed to purchase overpriced homes which they couldn’t pay for. If people were paying off their mortgages on time, there would be no crisis.

arggggggggghhhhhhhhhhhh!!!

no, the root of the problem isn’t the unqualified homebuyers. there were far more QUALIFIED people who bought with the intention of flipping than there were of sub-prime. In fact, sub-prime mortgages were a very small %%% of all mortgages (have the data at work, not home, or I would cite).

I’m sorry but I’m so sick and frickin tired of people blaming the poor for this mess. The fault does not lie entirely on their shoulders - it was the greed of the banks who created god-awful mortgage products that jacked up the mortgage afte 2 years, who came up with the idea of not needing to verify your work/income, who bacame riskier and riskier with their loans because they knew they could sell the risk on.

it was the fault of S&P, Moody’s and Fitch for being blase about their AAA ratings.

it was the fault of Alan mother-effing Greenspan for encouraging home-buyers to take out ARMs when interest rates were 1% (I mean, criminey, where else were rates going to go but up???). it was also his fault for fighting derivative regulation tooth and nail since the 1990s.

there is PLENTY of fault to go around - this isn’t just the folks who bought what they couldn’t afford.

By Bruno

October 10, 2008 3:18 PM | Link to this

Gandalf—Do me a favor and stop the undeserved hatred toward kimberly. She’s done nothing against you.

By JW

October 10, 2008 3:22 PM | Link to this

I find it funny that we can look to the past at Clinton and list his worngs, look to the future and see what Obama’s worngs will be, but we somehow ignore what has transpired for the past eight years under “W”.

If this so-called media bias were true AND effective, Obama would not even be running, it would be Kerrys second term. Also, does media bias include the likes of Rush, Sean, Boortz, Fox, et al? Considering the declining viewer ship at the network level, They may be the MSM.

By Mara

October 10, 2008 3:23 PM | Link to this

TOJ on Iran/Contra - “but no one even attempted to tell me why it was so wrong”

actually someone did. Don’t feel like trawling through the posts, but whomever it was pointed out that it was wrong because it was illegal. And if I remember correctly, they even listed some of the folks went to jail for it.

Naturally, if you feel the government shouldn’t have to abide by the law if their intentions are pure, it’s no big deal for you. But I don’t see how you can defend the program if you truly believe that we are a nation of laws, based on the Rule-of-Law.

By USinUK

October 10, 2008 3:31 PM | Link to this

TOJ -

Look up Edward Bernays - the father of public relations - he said:

“”If we understand the mechanism and motives of the group mind, is it not possible to control and regiment the masses according to our will without their knowing about it? The recent practice of propaganda has proved that it is possible, at least up to a certain point and within certain limits.”

what Goebbels did / espoused is no different than the US had been doing for decades

btw- Bernays worked for the US doing amd actually engineered the effort to overthrow the Guatamalan gov’t on behald of a fruit company.

lastly - you work in media - you know the power of words. who do you honestly think is going to be receptive to your ideas when you compare them to Nazis???

think about it.

By Mara

October 10, 2008 3:34 PM | Link to this

TOJ - hey! They honey-bunny is Buggy too! He’s been puttering around with a Type II for almost three years. (sigh) One of these days he’ll finish it up :^)

Bruno - LOL! Naughty, naughty!!

gotta go folks. USinUK, RF, Gale, Sunshine, Bruno, TOJ…all y’all have a great weekend.

By Bruno

October 10, 2008 3:36 PM | Link to this

you do know its dangerous to speak to a pregnant woman about her weight don’t you????

That’s why I’m hiding behind the anonymity of my keyboard!!! (Hoepfully you noted the smiley face after my comment)

no, the root of the problem isn’t the unqualified homebuyers. there were far more QUALIFIED people who bought with the intention of flipping than there were of sub-prime. In fact, sub-prime mortgages were a very small %%% of all mortgages (have the data at work, not home, or I would cite).

USinUK—You’re putting words in my mouth again. The “house-flippers” are a large part of the group that I’m castigating. The fact that they planned to hold the properties for a short time and sell them for a profit simply makes them greedy unqualified buyers. An unqualified buyer includes anyone who bought a house they couldn’t afford. End of story.

I’m sorry but I’m so sick and frickin tired of people blaming the poor for this mess. The fault does not lie entirely on their shoulders - it was the greed of the banks who created god-awful mortgage products that jacked up the mortgage afte 2 years, who came up with the idea of not needing to verify your work/income, who bacame riskier and riskier with their loans because they knew they could sell the risk on.

Sorry, hon, I still hold the ones signing their name on the dotted line responsible for their own decisions. Right now, for example, I have been carrying a balance forward on my credit card. Whose fault is that?? The credit card company’s?? Heck no, it’s my fault and no one else’s.

By USinUK

October 10, 2008 3:39 PM | Link to this

TOJ -

TOJ on Iran/Contra - “but no one even attempted to tell me why it was so wrong” (thanks for the heads-up. Mara … I missed this)

since you evidently missed my post from earlier this afternoon, here ya go:

I am very proud of everything that happened. Reagan was trying to establish closer relations with Iran, was actually causing Iran and Israel to be working together and was doing a very smart thing to stimulate anti-Islamic factions in Iran, the very same factions that now run that country.

Oh my effing god. That beggars belief.

You actually believe that subverting the Constitution is a good thing?? You actually believe that Reagan wanted closer ties with Iran??? After they held American hostages for 444 days??? You actually believe that he was trying to “stimulate anti-Islamic factions in Iran, the very same factions that are now running that country” – they were running the country THEN. Ayatollah Khomeni ran the country from 1979 until his death 10 years later. Both the US and the (then) USSR supplied arms to BOTH Iran (the US covertly) and Iraq (overtly) to keep the Islamist revolution contained from spreading into other oil-producing nations.

As for Israel/Iran relations – considering Iran was calling for the eradication of Israel even then, relations were … shall we say … strained? Israel sold them guns for their war with Iraq only to guarantee the release of some 30,000 Jews who were living in Iran at the time.

As for the Contras … they weren’t “fighting communism” – and they sure as HE!! weren’t the “the moral equivalent of our Founding Fathers” (as Uncle Ronnie called them). They were killing teachers, health care workers, nuns and innocent civilians. They were raping women and children. They were brutalizing villages. From Wiki: The Catholic Institute for International Relations summarized contra operating procedures in their 1987 human rights report: “The record of the contras in the field, as opposed to their official professions of democratic faith, is one of consistent and bloody abuse of human rights, of murder, torture, mutilation, rape, arson, destruction and kidnapping.”

There was nothing honorable about our support for the Contras, just as there was nothing honorable about our overthrow of Allende and installation of Augusto Pinochet. Our blind fear of communism led to the US propping up some of the most despotic leaders of the last century.

By Sunshine

October 10, 2008 3:41 PM | Link to this

USinUK—Please Testify! I’m sorry but I’m so sick and frickin tired of people blaming the poor for this mess. The fault does not lie entirely on their shoulders

This is what I don’t get—Have you ever asked to borrow money from someone? You don’t go in put a gun to their head and say give me $200, 300, 400 thousand dollars, no that is a robbery not a loan. The people going in to buy homes didn’t do it packing pistols! If you are an average normal citizen and you think “hmmm, rates are low, lets get the wife and go down to the local bank and see if it would be a good time to buy, and lets find out based on the income we make what THE BANK says is the amount we QUALIFY for.” Mr. Bank loan officer says “Guess what Mr. Jones you and your family can afford to buy a house for X # of dollars” you think great, this is the bank, they are loaning me the money, we have been pre-qualified, had our credit checked, they designed the loan type and gave us the option of fixed or adjustable rate, we have gone through underwriting and the loan has been checked by the closer and the funder, well I guess if they are sure this is a good investment, then it is! “Lets go buy that house you want honey!” WHERE in this equation is this “Joe Six-packs” fault? (god I hate that term, and only use it because I hear mostly the Republicans faulting the public for the foreclosure crisis) Please explain to me why it should be the responsibility of the person asking for a loan to determine the terms, amount and collateral that is acceptable to the BANK? That is the BANK’s job!

By Bruno

October 10, 2008 3:43 PM | Link to this

but we somehow ignore what has transpired for the past eight years under “W”.

JW—What rock have you been living under for the past 8 years?? The Democrats started howling about Bush even before he took office in 2001, and have never once given him credit for the good he has done. Take your blinders off. It is because of this unwillingness to give Bush any credit whatsoever that many conservatives like myself have a hard time respecting the intelletual honesty of those on the Left.

P.S. Earlier today I challenged the Libs to give Bush credit for tripling the CDC budget as well as doing more to combat malaria and AIDS in Africa than any previous Prez. I’m still waiting for a reply—the silence is deafening.

By USinUK

October 10, 2008 3:46 PM | Link to this

sunshine -

I am doing well with my weight for the pregnancy though, (Since YOU brought it up!) it is interesting that providing for someone else is the best incentive to cut out all the junk, preservatives and unhealthy stuff I might let myself eat! Best diet ever!

you just go!!! all my friends had the hardest time kicking caffeine (especially in the first trimester, when all you want to do is slip into a coma, as it is)

keep up the good work!!! :-) (just don’t play the kid “Lord of the Dance” soundtrack or you’ll be up all night)

By Sunshine

October 10, 2008 3:48 PM | Link to this

Bruno— you do know its dangerous to speak to a pregnant woman about her weight don’t you????

That’s why I’m hiding behind the anonymity of my keyboard!!! (Hopefully you noted the smiley face after my comment) I did, and I hope you noticed mine! Now, where is my chocolate and ice cream????? :-D

By The Other Jack

October 10, 2008 3:53 PM | Link to this

Mara

It was illegal because of a political feud. We turned our backs on people that had been laying down their lives for our cause. We turned our backs on a very effective method of gaining a good relationship with the most dangerous country in the world today.

Yes, some very decorated and honorable men thought it was worth going to jail over. The Democrats did a disgraceful thing and like so many things they have done, we are paying for it every day that Iran gets closer to having a nuclear bomb.

I was a politically active Republican then and I watched a media with a complete and total domination of the American people demonize our noble efforts that was working and take the side of a political party that would have given Russia Hawaii if it would have brought down Ronald Reagan.

Daniel Ortega is still the president of Nicaragua. He is good buddies with some really bad people and he is still the leader of the fascist, murdering party that we were fighting. So how did that Iran / Contra deal turn out for America, Mara?

Please forgive me for not being ashamed for taking the side against a hysterical and hate filled Democratic Congress. Look at the results and tell me who was right.

By JokesOn

October 10, 2008 3:53 PM | Link to this

P.S. Earlier today I challenged the Libs to give Bush credit for tripling the CDC budget as well as doing more to combat malaria and AIDS in Africa than any previous Prez. I’m still waiting for a reply—the silence is deafening.

I remember the first time you asked about the malaria funding many months ago and everyone did acknowledge this. It just pales in comparison to all the wrong he did. And, it is not as though his aids/malaria campaigns were without flaw - he is still reluctant to promote condoms there.

By Gale

October 10, 2008 3:58 PM | Link to this

Whoa, Sunshine! Joe sixpack should just accept the bank’s word that he can afford to pay more than half his income for a home payment? I’d say that is very much his responsibility and NOT the bank’s. Joe is the one responsible for the agrrements Joe signs.

By Sunshine

October 10, 2008 3:59 PM | Link to this

Bruno:

The Democrats started howling about Bush even before he took office in 2001—Yes, we were, because he didn’t win the election.

Earlier today I challenged the Libs to give Bush credit for tripling the CDC budget as well as doing more to combat malaria and AIDS in Africa than any previous Prez.—It is hard to praise some one who (Loudly) claims to be a fiscal conservative who then triples the budget of government organizations. It is also had to praise someone who has been in Africa, the place in the world with the highest concentration of AIDS cases in the world, funding abstinence only education programs there.

There is a tipping point where the bad grossly out ways the good, and the good doesn’t really matter any more. My favorite illustration is this:

You don’t get to brag about your delicious dessert, when every one at your dinner party went home with food poisoning!

By USinUK

October 10, 2008 3:59 PM | Link to this

Bruno -

USinUK—You’re putting words in my mouth again. The “house-flippers” are a large part of the group that I’m castigating. The fact that they planned to hold the properties for a short time and sell them for a profit simply makes them greedy unqualified buyers. An unqualified buyer includes anyone who bought a house they couldn’t afford. End of story.

if you were also including house-flippers in there, then I apologize - most people I have read have been blaming the sub-primers on the melt-down.

I still hold the ones signing their name on the dotted line responsible for their own decisions

and where there wasn’t fraud, I agree. however, there was also a SIGNIFICANT amount of flim-flammery going on by the lenders in the products they created where people didn’t realize the full extent of how they might be able to afford their mortgages now, but in 2 or 3 years, they could get wallopped. especially when the bank is enticing them saying “property never goes down - when your rate goes up, just refi for the new valuation and you’ll be fine!”

By RF

October 10, 2008 4:10 PM | Link to this

At one point in our history a large portion of the population thought that “separate but equal” was appropriate treatment for people of color. They saw nothing wrong with segregating everything from restrooms and water fountains to schools and hotels. I thought we, as a country, had moved away from that notion

Just a different group to be “afraid” of and point fingers at and blame for every ill in society. Unfortunately, it’s been around since the Puritans landed and began multiplying. Conservatives still want to blame someone and make us afraid. That keeps us weak and willing, much like we’ve been in every conservative dominated period. Hiding behind God and “morality” and so-called truth can help you veil a lot of hatred, bigotry, and fear of freedom. Just like the Puritans, many serious conservatives just can’t get past their own fear that people might think for themselves, love whoever they want, and treat everyone equally and the country still be able to survive.

By Sunshine

October 10, 2008 4:11 PM | Link to this

Gale—

Whoa, Sunshine! Joe sixpack should just accept the bank’s word that he can afford to pay more than half his income for a home payment? I’d say that is very much his responsibility and NOT the bank’s. Joe is the one responsible for the agrrements Joe signs.

There is responsibility on the person who takes out a loan. You are right but there is a greater responsibility on the bank.

If I loan you my money, and you don’t pay me back, it was a bad decision on my part, I gave you the money, I didn’t HAVE TO! The banks lowered the standards under which they were willing to loan. If you go in and apply for a credit card, or a car loan, and the lender says no, sorry, you don’t qualify, you walk away. It’s their money you can’t demand it.

By The Other Jack

October 10, 2008 4:15 PM | Link to this

USinUK

I agree about Iran. Reagan wanted to do everything he could to overthrow the crazies. Read, girl. He wasn’t dealing with the Ayatollah. He was dealing with the people that wanted to overthrow the Ayatollah. That’s why this would never fly nowadays. Back then, there was no internet and no FOX News so what the media decided was what America got and they got that these effective programs were not as important as the Democrat’s tantrums against Ronald Reagan.

Yes, we supported some dirty people in Central and South America, but in this case, look at what history tells us. Nicaragua is still our enemy. Ortega has slaughtered thousands. The same people that we were trying to overthrow in Iran are now threatening the world with nuclear destruction.

How’d that Iran / Contra thing work out?

By RF

October 10, 2008 4:18 PM | Link to this

USinUK- the biggest problem with the “subprime” mortgages was indeed the assumption that property values would continue to go up. ARMs and interest-only loans were still available, even after the bubble burst. The lenders only saw the bottom-line of immediate profit and ignored the potential problem looming down the road. Tragically, many homebuyers only looked at what the lender told them they could afford, and only after they were in love with a house and ready to move did anyone tell them the full conditions of their loans. The lenders just expanded on the ruse used by car salesmen for the longest time. You’ll agree to anything to get the car or the house after you’ve been taken in by the appeal. Countrywide tried like crazy to get me to take out all my equity when I refinanced. They made it sound wonderful and I realized then how many people could easily be taken in by the sales pitch they had. It took me quite a few minutes to get the person I dealt with to understand I just wanted a regular old plain refi to lower interest.

By Sunshine

October 10, 2008 4:19 PM | Link to this

TOJ— I was a politically active Republican then and I watched a media with a complete and total domination of the American people demonize our noble efforts

Ummmmm, there were trials. People where found guilty. And I said it before, In case you missed my post, here is a recap:

This is the quote from Regan on Wiki:

Reagan expressed regret regarding the situation during a nationally televised address from the White House Oval Office on March 4, 1987; Reagan had not spoken to the American people directly for three months amidst the scandal.[48] President Reagan told the American people the reason why he did not update them on the scandal, He then took full responsibility for his actions and those of his administration:

Finally, the president stated that his previous assertions that the U.S. did not trade arms for hostages were incorrect:

Dude, like I said yesterday, you really need to stop getting all your US history from Rush and right wing blogs!

By Gale

October 10, 2008 4:20 PM | Link to this

As has been said, there is plenty of blame to go around. Everyone have a good weekend.

By The Other Jack

October 10, 2008 4:24 PM | Link to this

Sunshine

You may want to look up what a TOW missile is before you start calling people names. It is a wire guided, anti-tank missile, about the size of your forearm. It was to be used for fighting the Russian tanks that the Iranian military had been using against it’s own citizens.

Clinton allowed the selling of real missile technology to north Korea. Those are the kinds of missiles that can deliver war heads. And in that case, you are right. What kind of sick person would support something like that?

By Bruno

October 10, 2008 4:26 PM | Link to this

I remember the first time you asked about the malaria funding many months ago and everyone did acknowledge this. It just pales in comparison to all the wrong he did. And, it is not as though his aids/malaria campaigns were without flaw - he is still reluctant to promote condoms there.

If I remember correctly, JokesOn, YOU were the only one who could bring him/herself to say that Bush is not all good or all bad, but a human like the rest of us. Contrast your response with that of Sunshine’s:

There is a tipping point where the bad grossly out ways the good, and the good doesn’t really matter any more.

Sorry, Sunshine, but even the worst among has has a few redeeming qualities. Personally, I think we can thank Bush for no new attacks on American soil by the Muslim fundamentalists.

By Sunshine

October 10, 2008 4:28 PM | Link to this

RF-I think you make a great point! Do you find, as I do, that when those conservatives, who hold deeply to their fear and/or hatred of another group, actually come to know some one personally, a lot of that fear tends to slip away? Maybe not for the entire group, but if it is your sister who’s gay, well “she’s not like them” or if your best friend at work is black “well he’s not like them” ect. I find every time there is a human face on the big bad scary enemy, they become a little less scary. Funny how human connections do that!

By Bruno

October 10, 2008 4:30 PM | Link to this

and where there wasn’t fraud, I agree. however, there was also a SIGNIFICANT amount of flim-flammery going on by the lenders in the products they created where people didn’t realize the full extent of how they might be able to afford their mortgages now, but in 2 or 3 years, they could get wallopped. especially when the bank is enticing them saying “property never goes down - when your rate goes up, just refi for the new valuation and you’ll be fine!”

Two words for you, USinUK (and Sunshine): Caveat Emptor.

Love to all.

By Bruno

October 10, 2008 4:33 PM | Link to this

If I loan you my money, and you don’t pay me back, it was a bad decision on my part, I gave you the money, I didn’t HAVE TO!

P.S. Sunshine, can you see your way clear to lending me a few bucks. I like your philosophy about not paying back.

By Bruno

October 10, 2008 4:37 PM | Link to this

• those conservatives, who hold deeply to their fear and/or hatred of another group*

Glad to know that there is no stereotyping or prejudice on your part, Sunshine.

By Sunshine

October 10, 2008 4:40 PM | Link to this

Bruno,

I stand by my statement, a tipping point, that means there is weight for the good and the bad, but when you weigh the two one is greater than the other. I am not saying he isn’t a great dad, or hell, softball player, who knows? But as far as policy and in the court of public opinion, he has not been successful at the job he was (kinda) elected to.

We will just have to agree to disagree about Mr. Bush personally stopping attacks against us in the last eight years.

By The Other Jack

October 10, 2008 4:46 PM | Link to this

USinUk

Good people went to jail. Lots of good people died when we turned our back on them. We should have continued those programs and perhaps we wouldn’t be in the mess we are in. But it was more important to hit the Teflon President with something that he couldn’t walk away from. it didn’t matter that the program had been legal before the Congress decided that it should have the plug pulled. Why wouldn’t Reagan have taken full responsibility. Hell Oliver North went to jail, shaking his fist at the idiots in Congress that made such a mockery out of our foreign policy and our legal system.

You are not going to make me feel guilty for supporting good policy over political back biting.

People died. People went to jail. And history shows us that the Democrats put their political vendetta ahead of our country’s future. Now look at where we are. Reagan was able to bring down the USSR, but his programs to bring down a very weak Iran was stopped and Iran is now our biggest threat.

I have no idea what Rush Limbaugh thinks about this and I resent that you went there. This is what I friggin’ think about this. Get it?

You still haven’t answered my question. How did that Iran / Contra thing work out for the country?

By Sunshine

October 10, 2008 4:48 PM | Link to this

Bruno—*Sunshine, can you see your way clear to lending me a few bucks. I like your philosophy about not paying back. *

Come on, Bruno, I know you are smarter than that! Read through my whole post. There is responsibility for the borrower, as many many many people know who now have a foreclosure on their credit. But blaming “joe shmoe” for not knowing better when the Bank and the sales person is saying you can, you can, you can. And casting them as the only ones responsible is not realistic. If I loan you money, can I check your credit, your payment history, get copies of your canceled rent checks, see if you have ever owed the government any money in the last ten years, and verify your employment before I do? Then we’ll talk! ;-)

By JustaJew

October 10, 2008 4:53 PM | Link to this

Bruno,

According to GPOAccess and a look at the .pdf of the FY2001-FY-2009 Federal budgets, in 2001 the total outlay to the CDC was 3.24 billion and in 2008 it was 6.83 billion. I have to admit that is extraordinary in that the budget doubled over 7 years. However, when I went back and looked again at the 2001 budget I noticed that the government outlay just for the pay of Officers in the Air Force only amounted to 6.12 billion dollars and that the total outlay for just the Air Force in 2001 was 18.47 billion dollars. So, 3.24 billion for the CDC, 18.47 billion for the Air Force…both Departments doing valuable work, both trying to keep Americans alive and uninjured. I’m just saying…

Also, please tell me how Mr. Bush has personally done anything to combat AIDS or malaria in Africa….now I admit that I personally haven’t done anything to help those people either, but I did help build and fund (with personal tools and personal money)3 private orphanages in Russia. Please tell me how Mr. Bush has personally helped anyone except his “yes” men…

By Hunter S. Thompson

October 10, 2008 4:58 PM | Link to this

“In a nation ruled by swine, all pigs are upwardly mobile—and the rest of us are f**ked until we can put our acts together: not necessarily to win, but mainly to keep from losing completely. We owe that to ourselves and our crippled self-image as something better than a nation of panicked sheep.” —The Great Shark Hunt, 1979

By Hunter S. Thompson

October 10, 2008 5:03 PM | Link to this

“There are times, however, and this is one of them, when even being right feels wrong. What do you say, for instance, about a generation that has been taught that rain is poison and sex is death? If making love might be fatal and if a cool spring breeze on any summer afternoon can turn a crystal blue lake into a puddle of black poison right in front of your eyes, there is not much left except TV and relentless masturbation. It’s a strange world. Some people get rich and others eat sh** and die.” —Gonzo Papers, Vol. 2: Generation of Swine: Tales of Shame and Degradation in the ’80s, 1988

By Sunshine

October 10, 2008 5:08 PM | Link to this

Bruno—

Caveat Emptor, or Buyer beware, as I understand it, pertains to the Homeowner, and the Home buyer, it means, again as I understand it, that you should have a home inspection, and make sure that the home you are buying is free of defects before you buy because after the transaction is completed the seller is not responsible. This does not seem to have anything to do with the banking industry. They are lending you money, not selling you a piece of property.

By RF

October 12, 2008 3:43 PM | Link to this

Do you find, as I do, that when those conservatives, who hold deeply to their fear and/or hatred of another group, actually come to know some one personally, a lot of that fear tends to slip away?

Absolutely. It’s easy to denounce someone/something when you’re not in the presence of it. I’ve seen it happen. Venom is easy to spew at a third party, but almost never happens when face-to-face with the person. It’s like the hecklers at the rallies of late. Would they really call Obama an “Arab” to his face? I doubt it seriously. The same principle applies to denouncing homosexuals, Muslims, etc. You won’t see it happen face-to-face because that requires you to have facts and to listen to and consider another’s point of view. Not easy when you’re grasping at straws, believing generalizations are patent facts, and knowingly being cruel.

By fgkerfj

October 12, 2008 5:04 PM | Link to this

Sorry, Andrea. Your full of s**.

By Lyrazel

October 13, 2008 8:44 AM | Link to this

Shaunti & Andrea, LOOK how stilted the media is concerning the OTHER candidates currently running for office who do not have chests of money to payolla for media coverage. We concerned voters get nothing about the rest—just this Obama and that McCain fal-di-rah! Media has given almost zero mention of other candidates and their platforms (except brief ha ha ha) and report only about the paid-for-party-platform candidates dancing the same old dance avoiding the issues of their entrenched incompetence!

And look what both parties have led us into! They can take the blame equally! Our two party system reeks of favoritism, bribery and incompetence! How many token gestures does the public get from elected politicians? Earmarks in a disgusting bailout! War on two fronts (a classic bellwether of incompetence) dominated by unchecked spending and a gluttony of contracts given without congressional oversight (were they fundraising? Obviously no body was working) thus now billions are unaccounted for! Our returning soldiers get pitiful medical care yet party members get shameless elite medical service and perks.

It has long been established that fundraising takes 75% of elected officials time—so why elect fundraisers to government? We are in a crisis and when one party smears another party it just shows how out of touch with the realities of American people these politicians actually are! Long live the country of bobble-head presidents!

By USinUK

October 13, 2008 8:55 AM | Link to this

Hi Gale, Sunshine, Bruno, Jokesy, TOJ, Mara … (“and the rest” a la Gilligan’s Island)!!!

No time for chit-chat today (sadly) … so I thought I’d leave you with 2 funny quasi-topical quotes - one regarding the link betweek gay marriage and hockey and the other the economy:

when asked about gay marriage in Canada, hockey player Brett Hull said: “Well, that’s what happens in Canada when there’s no hockey. Guys have more time to hang out, talk about their feelings, next thing you know they’re in love with each other. I’ve got nothing against it, but I’d rather be playing hockey.”

as for the economy …

“This is worse than divorce because I’ve lost half my net worth and I still have my wife”

hope everyone’s 401Ks are above the waterline …

see you guys manana …

peace!

By lovelyliz

October 13, 2008 9:01 AM | Link to this

Does press support for Obama give him an inappropriate advantage?

Ask Fox News, The Courier - Findlay, Spokesman Review - Spokane and the Wall STreet Journal.

By Gale

October 13, 2008 9:04 AM | Link to this

Lyrazel, dead on!

I have discovered that a write-in for president in GA is very simple and I still intend to vote for the candidate that should have been nominated — if not for the media blitz for Obama.

That said, don’t be misled into thinking I am a democrat. I read this about Pelosi this morning. Ms Pelosi wants to galvanise backing for a new financial stimulus package to increase the US food-stamp programme and extend unemployment benefits. Can anyone explain how food stamps and extended unemployment benefits will stimulate the economy? The democrats have not learned that give aways for the poor, while it may get them votes, does not improve the economy or reduce poverty.

By Gandalf, the Grey

October 13, 2008 9:27 AM | Link to this

I can answer any questions on the TOW II missle. I am an Army certified trainer of this weapons system.

By Gale

October 13, 2008 9:49 AM | Link to this

Gandalf, If I ever find myself in possession of such a weapon and need instruction, I’m glad to know I have someone to ask. I would think you would prefer the subtleties of the magic staff.

By Lyrazel

October 13, 2008 10:07 AM | Link to this

Gale—the quote I frequently use about 75% of time spent by congress is spent fundraising is straight from Pelosi’s mouth. ‘nuff said.

By Gandalf, the Grey

October 13, 2008 10:14 AM | Link to this

the staff is not a weapon of mass destruction Gale, but a pleasure pole!

By Gandalf, the Grey

October 13, 2008 10:15 AM | Link to this

the staff is not a weapon of mass destruction Gale, but a pleasure pole!

By Sunshine

October 13, 2008 10:20 AM | Link to this

RF- I couldn’t agree with you more. I remember visiting DC a little after 9/11 and seeing cars just plastered with American flags, 7,8,9 of them on one car. I thought how patriotic, then a friend of mine pointed, out look who is getting out of those cars, they are all foreign nations, a lot of them Arab students, that were very frightened. They wanted to proclaim they did not agree or have anything to do with the killings. They were very aware of the stereotype.

By Gale

October 13, 2008 10:27 AM | Link to this

Lyrazel, and yet they find time every Congress to vote themselves a raise.

Gandalf, tsk-tsk.

By Gandalf, the Grey

October 13, 2008 10:31 AM | Link to this

I have a RED WHITE AND BLUE NoBama sticker on my car, does that make me patriotic? (DAMN) SKIPPY!!!!!!!!!!!

By Sunshine

October 13, 2008 10:40 AM | Link to this

Can anyone explain how food stamps and extended unemployment benefits will stimulate the economy?

Hi Gale,

While I agree that these two programs are not the only solution to the problems we are facing there is a lot of people that agree that these programs stop a harder and faster decline of the economy. For instance, in GA, you only draw about 1/3 of your salary on unemployment and are only eligible for 26 weeks max, the average time to find a job is 60-90 days, in this economy it could be worse, and the more you make the longer it takes. Also remember you are not eligible for unemployment if you have had absentee issues or any other reprimands/write ups at work. If the primary wage earner is out of work for 3-6 months and, if the family is like most Americans, only 1-2 paychecks away from being homeless, you take a glut of foreclosures and add a whole heap more with out some sort of SHORT term assistance.

By Lyrazel

October 13, 2008 10:40 AM | Link to this

Gale, there is a bill that allows for annual raises to congress that was fitted in neatly to a budget passed in 03 or earlier. They did it so they won’t have to vote on it anymore—so the public does not hear about them getting raises.

By What If

October 13, 2008 10:41 AM | Link to this

WHAT IF……

Obama/Biden vs McCain/Palin, what if things were switched around? Think about it. Would the country’s collective point of view be different? Could racism be the culprit?

Ponder the following:

What if the Obamas had paraded five children across the stage, including a three month old infant and an unwed, pregnant teenage daughter?

What if John McCain was a former president of the Harvard Law Review?

What if Barack Obama finished fifth from the bottom of his graduating class?

What if McCain had only married once and Obama was a divorcee?

What if Obama was the candidate who left his first wife after a severe disfiguring car accident, when she no longer measured up to his standards?

What if Obama had met his second wife in a bar and had a long affair while he was still married?

What if Michelle Obama was the wife who not only became addicted to pain killers but also acquired them illegally through her charitable organization?

What if Cindy McCain graduated from Harvard?

What if Obama had been a member of the Keating Five? (The Keating Five were five United States Senators accused of corruption in 1989, igniting a major political scandal as part of the larger Savings and Loan crisis of the late 1980s and early 1990s.)

What if McCain was a charismatic, eloquent speaker?

What if Obama couldn’t read from a teleprompter?

What if Obama was the one who had military experience that included discipline problems and a record of crashing five planes?

What if Obama was the one who was known to display publicly, on many occasions, a serious anger management problem?

What if Michelle Obama’s family had made their money from beer distribution?

What if the Obamas had adopted a white child?

If these questions reflected reality, do you really believe the election numbers would be as close as they are?

By Gale

October 13, 2008 11:10 AM | Link to this

Lyrazel, That’s our Congress. Always tihnking about our feelings.

Sunshine, Having been on unemployment in GA, and am very familier with the benefits, theough some may not be. The income covered my mortgage payment and that is all. It took 4 or 5 months to find another job. I am a computer programmer with specific skills — not PC-oriented. The time was compounded because I had recently moved here and had no business contacts. However, I question how many of the people this bill is aimed to help would take more than 6 months to find a new job. That is really a long time. I really think extending that time —while not encouraging someone to stay on unemployment— will also not help in the long run. People who are 1-2 paychecks from homeless need job training. We should not enable them to hold out for another, apparently, futureless job.

By Sunshine

October 13, 2008 11:26 AM | Link to this

Gale I don’t see how extending the benefits for unemployment, say 3 months, would encourage someone to stay on it, considering it comes to a definitive end. You yourself said that it took you “4-5 months” to find a job, add to that another 60 days, and the only thing that was paying your mortgage goes away, you still haven’t found a job, it becomes a rapid downward spiral. And I really believe that you are painting with a broad brush by saying that only under skilled workers are 1-2 paychecks from being homeless. A major illness, a loss of a job or some other major home repair or financial crisis is all it takes to cause most families to go into foreclosure. Now I believe we should all take Susie Orman’s advice and be debt free and have 8 months of living expenses on hand at all times, but how many people really do?

By Lyrazel

October 13, 2008 11:43 AM | Link to this

I do.

By Gale

October 13, 2008 11:51 AM | Link to this

But, Sunshine, we don’t encourage people to save and provide their own safety net if the government is always there with they net. I took 4-5 months because I was looking for a specific job. There were other jobs. If another month had passed, I would have taken a job I didn’t really want so I would be able to pay my bills. I think many people on unemployment are in that same group; trying to get the best job, not just any job. But the truth is, you gotta pay bills and sometimes you have to take whatever is available. Maybe you will need to take two jobs. Maybe you won’t have the same lifestyle as the last job gave you.

A major illness… That is an entirely different kettle of fish. I am firmly in favor of universal health care in terms of major illness. It is not right that a person must choose between certain death and ruining their finances for a hope of life. I am much more lukewarm when it comes to UHC for general medical care. I use a Doc-in-a-box myself and it works fine. $20-$40 for an office visit won’t break most families. A $10k a month drug for cancer treatment will break many of us.

Major home repair? That is why so many of the people who bought homes in thie real estate push should not have bought a house. There is much more to home ownership than the monthly payment. If you are not spending money to repair and improve your home every year, it will fall down around your ears.

By Gandalf, the Grey

October 13, 2008 11:52 AM | Link to this

What if Obama where white? Then we could all see him as the elitist he really is, and all oppose his socialist, defeatist ways! Much like JFK put us on the brink of Nuclear war, we shall be in peril for his whole term. MEET WITH WORLD LEADERS, BAHHHHH, MEET THEM IN HELL!

By Gandalf, the Grey

October 13, 2008 11:52 AM | Link to this

What if Obama where white? Then we could all see him as the elitist he really is, and all oppose his socialist, defeatist ways! Much like JFK put us on the brink of Nuclear war, we shall be in peril for his whole term. MEET WITH WORLD LEADERS, BAHHHHH, MEET THEM IN HELL!

By Gale

October 13, 2008 12:00 PM | Link to this

8 months, Lyrazel? Good for you. I sure don’t. I might manage 6 months if we made some cuts.

By Sunshine

October 13, 2008 12:17 PM | Link to this

Gale, I see you points and agree that it can be frustrating to look at the “have nots” and say “well you should have done a better job”. Hindsight is 20/20 and people in that situation usually say “I should have done a better job” but it is all a catch 22. Ok, so you don’t help the guy who IS 1-2 paychecks away from being homeless and he does lose his house, then you have another $150-250,000 goose egg out there for (NOW) the tax payers to take care of, and because he has no job, he has no health care, so he goes and takes his kids to the health department and pays nothing b/c he has no job, again who pays? The taxpayers. Well then he is eligible for food stamps b/c he took that low paying wage, that hasn’t been brought up to a living wage b/c there has been no increase in 10 years, and again who pays? Taxpayers.

It goes on and on, if you help someone at the beginning of a crisis it was ALWAYS cost less than at the end. Your question was how do food stamps and increasing unemployment benefits help the economy, well it helps tax payers to prevent a self sufficient family from becoming homeless and completely on the dole!

By USinUK

October 13, 2008 12:51 PM | Link to this

Sunshine and Gale -

Gale I don’t see how extending the benefits for unemployment, say 3 months, would encourage someone to stay on it, considering it comes to a definitive end.

just to pop in and throw my $0.02 … I agree with Sunshine - adding another 3 months doesn’t encourage people to stay on unemployment. Temporary extensions like this reflect the current environment - just like they did in 2001. Unemployment benefits were extended then to reflect the dot-com bust and the post 9/11 economy - there were fewer jobs to be had.

Unemployment now is higher than it was then and is set to get worse, so easing the burden a bit is necessary (especially with foreclosures heading to record highs)

By The Other Jack

October 13, 2008 12:55 PM | Link to this

Whatif

I am on several African American’s e-mail lists and i have received that same cut and paste for allmost a year now.

I have also read a reply to it that what if’ed McCain attended the church of a rabid racist for 20 years and openly donated thousands of dollars to his racist cause. The reply put McCain in association with similar people that have promoted Obama and McCain would never have made a US Senator.

I have no doubt that race is involved in this election, but the question is: how much of that did he bring on himself? Rev. Wright is a devout racist and Obama wrote a book using one of his sermons. His church is closely associated with Screwy Lewis Farrikhan.

When a person spends his life in the company of some very radical and racist folks, don’t be surprised if people take sides.

By USinUK

October 13, 2008 12:56 PM | Link to this

Much like JFK put us on the brink of Nuclear war

JFK was building nuclear missile platforms in Cuba? wow. he was a busy boy.

By Bruno

October 13, 2008 1:18 PM | Link to this

Does anyone have any good news to report? What a depressing day…..

By Gale

October 13, 2008 1:38 PM | Link to this

Sunshine, my partner makes similar arguments. There are days when I agree. I know conditions change. I know it is hard to backup when you feel that hard acquired lifestyle slip away. I know today, many people are walking away from homes because they would only lose money in a sale anyway.

There are other days when I look at generations of people expecting the government to take care of them and I get a very hard heart. I look at people who see what others have and figure they should have those things too; no matter they have not worked 20 years to afford them. (This is often a problem of parents who do not teach what money is all about.)

I agree that we should provide some help for the working person who cannot quite make a go of it; whether by misfortune or misplanning. Raising the minimum wage beyond a true minimum is a poor idea, IMO. It was never intended to be enough to raise a family. Granted, it should be increased with inflation. Our government should be facilitating better public transit so it doesn’t require a car to keep a job. Our government should be facilitating quality child care so single parents can work without worrying about their children. The people we are trying to help, the people most at risk have to do these things out of pocket now.

By Gale

October 13, 2008 1:43 PM | Link to this

Poor Bruno. The market is up. Unfortunately, so is oil. On the other hand, gas is below what it was before the recent problem.

By The Other Jack

October 13, 2008 1:48 PM | Link to this

USinUk

Heading back to Virginia on Wednesday to finish up this haunted Inn piece. I just landed an early morning ultralight flight over the little town for Thursday. I really need to finish this and this will be GREAT footage.

By Mara

October 13, 2008 2:44 PM | Link to this

Bruno - Does anyone have any good news to report?

Cheer up, six out of seven men have no genetic risk of going bald…

—- Researchers at McGill University in Montreal, King’s College London and the British drug firm GlaxoSmithKline Inc. say 1 in 7 men have genetic risk of balding.

The researchers identified two genetic variants in Caucasians that together produce a sevenfold increase in the risk of male pattern baldness. —-

Also, gas prices are down, a small puppy was rescued from a well in Indonesia, and beaver dams have been declared good for songbirds. And the Dallas Cowboys lost yesterday.

By Sunshine

October 13, 2008 2:52 PM | Link to this

Gale,

I know it is hard when you feel like you are giving the money you worked so hard to earn to someone who has not. I know there are people out there that abuse the system and I know there are lazy people out there. I don’t know what age range or income bracket you are in Gale, but I am just under thirty, and have never had a “hard acquired lifestyle slip away”. I know that we scrimp and save everything we have, we just bought our first house, with 10% down of our own money saved over 3 years, we are debt free except our 1 car payment, and our mortgage, and we have 4 months of living expenses saved and will have 6 (including soon to be ASTRONOMICAL monthly daycare) by the time the little guy gets here. We are really lucky and have worked hard to get here. And neither of our parents gave us anything but good advice and a strong work ethic. But the truth is, if one of us wasn’t working we wouldn’t make it long. We need both our salaries to live, and we own two Fords, one paid off that’s 10 years old, and the other we just bought that is 3 years old when we bought it, we are not living “high on the hog”. We know lots of young couples that are just like us, if a month, or god forbid two, went by with out any income, they would lose everything they have. These are not lazy people. These are not people looking for government to take care of them. But they are in a very precarious economy and trying to provide for themselves and their young family, a lot of them are college educated and have mountains of debt. It all can quickly combine into the perfect storm in times like these.

By The Other Jack

October 13, 2008 3:03 PM | Link to this

Mara

And the Falcons had a hell of a game.

Too late about that baldness thing and I have a hard time believing that only one in seven go bald. (I read the same article) It seems like every guy over 50 is bald or thinning.

Gas prices are down a little. I heard that BP is the one that is messing everything up. We could have prices lower than 3 bucks, but BP has not lowered it’s prices to it’s wholesalers so no one needs to lower their prices to compete.

And the Indiana Jones movie is about to be released on DVD. I still haven’t seen it, but am looking forward to buying the DVD. The previews are a little wierd seeing that old guy in an action flic, but who else could have played the part?

By Gandalf, the Grey

October 13, 2008 3:22 PM | Link to this

EXPAT! He was doing that in Turkey! Silly girl, we don’t like Cuba, and haven’t very much since Teddy went down there and kicked some butt! Cuba had every reason to want to have nuclear weapons after the Kennedy Brothers tried to have him killed.

By Mara

October 13, 2008 3:24 PM | Link to this

TOJ - only one in seven have a genetic risk of balding. That doesn’t preclude environmental causes, stress, or parenthood. ;^P

Sunshine - kudo’s on your 2:52

By Gale

October 13, 2008 3:35 PM | Link to this

I did a mental poll of the guys over 50 around me and of 10, only one is bald. A couple have thinnned a bit. Most have thick manes.

Sunshine, you can be applauded for your diligence, and give thanks to your parents for not deluding you into believing your life would be haned to you on a platter. I have a strong feeling that you would not lose everything if one income went away because you sound like planners. The one in trouble do not plan. Planners look at each decision and consider contingencies for things that might go wrong. Upi know child care for the baby will be expensive and apparently you have planned for it.

I’ll go back to one item I said that would provide the best help for meddle Americans, child care assistance. I don’t have children, but it is clear to me that raising children consumes a great deal of money and energy. I would like to see better assistance for child care centers. I don’t like the idea of tax credits, however. I don’t like the idea of credit just for having children. I also don’t like the idea of government run child care. That seems too controlled. I think we would end up with little robots.

By Gale

October 13, 2008 3:49 PM | Link to this

Ugh! “Upi know” should be “You know”.

By USinUK

October 14, 2008 8:10 AM | Link to this

Gale –

I think I have found your write-in candidate!!!

http://www. thenation. com/doc/20081027/cash

heck, I’d vote for her!!

By Gale

October 14, 2008 8:34 AM | Link to this

CASH! “…but I have thrown my cat off the bed.” This is very funny. Thanks. Busy over there trying to realign financial numbers?

By USinUK

October 14, 2008 8:46 AM | Link to this

Gale -

CASH! “…but I have thrown my cat off the bed.” This is very funny.

that made me laugh this morning, too.

Busy over there trying to realign financial numbers?

better day today … yesterday was … “challenging” (prep for this week’s earnings call). the good thing is that our stock is going back up after a dreadful week. and we’ve gotten a couple of good reviews from the rating agencies, so life is a tad better … I think everyone was updating their resumes last week. gah.

TOJ -

Heading back to Virginia on Wednesday to finish up this haunted Inn piece. I just landed an early morning ultralight flight over the little town for Thursday. I really need to finish this and this will be GREAT footage.

safe journey, my friend. be careful. most importantly - enjoy the Appalachian Autumn (I’m jealous, jealous, jealous).

By USinUK

October 14, 2008 8:57 AM | Link to this

GtG -

Well, Eisenhower got us into the whole Jupiter situation, not JFK. He dismantled them to help cool the nuclear tensions.

Secondly, we la-la-LOVED Cuba before the revolution - we had cheap sugar and a tropical playground.

on a related note - the Buena Vista Social Club is releasing a live album - yay!

By Gale

October 14, 2008 9:01 AM | Link to this

An ultralight over Virginian in the fall. It sounds fantastic. I hope the weather holds for TOJ.

By The Other Jack

October 14, 2008 9:30 AM | Link to this

USinUK

I requested my Dad’s service records. He was wounded at Iwo Jima and Okinawa.

The government sent them to Havana before sending them to the South Pacific. One last fling before hell. There was also a little town at one end of the Panama Canal that was basically a bordello. I have been wanting to do a film about tracing his route,

He ended up staying with a Hawaiian friend on one of the restricted reservation Islands in Hawaii while he healed. My Mom still has pictures of him on a very nice sailboat. He still has the head bandages but looks like he is really enjoying himself.

So let’s see: Havana, Panama, Iwo Jima, Okinawa, Hawaii. I would have hated to be there 63 years ago but I would love to go there now.

By Gandalf, the Grey

October 14, 2008 9:32 AM | Link to this

WE as in Brits or Yanks? Brits and Germans still go there. Red paradise. Ricky Ricardo was the man! Dezi as you know him? ANYWAY…Who really believes that a man from Chicago/Hawaii/Indonesia with parents from Kansas and Africa really love Sweet Potato Pie? He’s a lying liar.

By The Other Jack

October 14, 2008 9:40 AM | Link to this

Gale

Partly cloudy on Thursday, but rain on Friday. The flight is daybreak, Thursday. Since there will be lots of moisture in the air, the “hollers” should be all misty. We have about a 45 minute flight to get to the little town so I will have lots of footage of the mountains.

It is a two seater, “experimental” so it is almost a regular airplane, just really low and slow.

It is going to be hard to come back here to start on an infomercial.

By The Other Jack

October 14, 2008 9:48 AM | Link to this

Gandolf

Europeans go to Havana, but it is still pretty rough. Lots of restrictions on who they can talk to, where they can go, etc.

I think Obama is a liar, too but all it takes is one bite of Sweet Potato Pie.

By Gandalf, the Grey

October 14, 2008 9:48 AM | Link to this

TOJ,

By Gale

October 14, 2008 9:57 AM | Link to this

Those planes are usually quite stable in the air, from what I heard. Just a bit squirrly landing and taking off. The comment was, “They like to fly.” I hope it isn’t an open cockpit. That could be chill at that hour.

By USinUK

October 14, 2008 10:08 AM | Link to this

Bruno -

still looking for some good news?? this would be a nice trend:

http://www. bloomberg. com/ apps/news?pid=20601103&sid=aDjmJpYwglIA&refer=us

Wal-Mart Stores Inc.’s worldwide quest for a lower-cost sleeping bag has led to a one-story factory in northwest Alabama, where Chris Defoor has a new job.

GtG -

WE as in Brits or Yanks? Brits and Germans still go there.

um. dear. EVERYONE else goes there except Americans. Unlike the US, most of the rest of the world realizes that the embargo isn’t working. has nothing to do with communism. everything to do with beaches, music, cigars and good rum.

and in the 1950s, the US la-la-LOVED Cuba … haven’t you seen Godfather II??? in fact, I used to work for a guy who was there on leave when they had to evacuate everyone because of the Revolution …

TOJ -

So let’s see: Havana, Panama, Iwo Jima, Okinawa, Hawaii. I would have hated to be there 63 years ago but I would love to go there now.

my older uncle basically followed the route of the 1st infantry (Africa, Sicily, Italy, western push through Europe) - how he made it out without being wounded, I’ll never know. my middle uncle was an army aeronautical engineer, so was all over the UK and France. because they were overseas, my dad was stateside. huh. now that I think about it, I don’t know anyone who served in the Pacific theater - all the WWII vets I know were in Europe.

what does your pop say about the movie idea??

on a somewhat related note, I just finished watching Band of Brothers … criminey. talk about great movie-making. it’s one thing to read about Bastogne, but to see what these guys went through - I honestly don’t know how they did it.

By Gale

October 14, 2008 10:13 AM | Link to this

I guess I don’t qualify as a Southerner. Sweet Potato Pie…Can’t stand it. But then, I don’t like pumpkin pie either. I don’t remember my Dad’s family ever offering that when we were in Kentucky or Tennessee for visits. Maybe his family was too poor for that? Or maybe it didn’t get that far north.

By The Other Jack

October 14, 2008 10:15 AM | Link to this

Gale

I hadn’t thought about the cold mornings until I was writing the post to you about the weather. I just dug out a warm jacket and a pair of long johns. But I draw the line at gloves. I’m not about to hold my camcorder out the side of an airplane unless I have a death grip on it.

The guy said that he could remove the doors from both sides so it sounds like an enclosed cockpit, that is until the doors are removed.

I used to specialize in aerial videography so I have been in several ultralites, a couple of hot air balloons, the Shamu and Goodyear blimps, lots of helicopters, small planes and my favorite: an F15-B. That plane was the thrill of my life.

I once directed a Westcam shoot, but they don’t let anyone touch the controls of that beast. Westcams and Skycams are the gyro-cams that are mounted on the side and nose of helicopters. I have used a stabilizer, but never a gyro.

By kimberly

October 14, 2008 10:21 AM | Link to this

USinUK, I’ve seen Band of Brothers so many times I can practically recite the dialog. Isn’t that the most awesome piece of filmmaking ever?! Real people and events are so much more fascinating than sci-fi or fantasy, IMO. I just wish more people would learn from history.

By Gale

October 14, 2008 10:21 AM | Link to this

USinUK, suppose Obama would open up Cuba and drop the embargo? I doubt McCain would. After all this time, it has not changed a thing except make the people of Cuba poorer.

By USinUK

October 14, 2008 10:21 AM | Link to this

Gale -

I guess I don’t qualify as a Southerner. Sweet Potato Pie…Can’t stand it. But then, I don’t like pumpkin pie either.

I’m with ya. I love them in theory, but then I take a bite and the texture makes me gag. too danged slimey. and I love 1 bite of pecan pie. any more than that and I feel like I need an insulin shot - too danged sweet.

give me hot apple pie (not too heavy on the cinnamon and nutmeg, please) with a huge scoop of ice cream. or key lime pie … I could eat my weight in key lime pie.

By USinUK

October 14, 2008 10:37 AM | Link to this

kimberly -

USinUK, I’ve seen Band of Brothers so many times I can practically recite the dialog. Isn’t that the most awesome piece of filmmaking ever?!

I absolutely agree - and the thing that I loved most - neither Tom Hanks nor Steven Spielberg milked the Big Moments. You got the emotion, then they moved on. And the writing was fantastic. Best of all were the opening interviews and finding out at the end who was who (and I was completely off with my guess for Maj Winters). and, yes, I cried like the marshmellow I am at the end when they were playing b-ball and found out they could go home. totally booed.

By USinUK

October 14, 2008 10:42 AM | Link to this

Gale -

USinUK, suppose Obama would open up Cuba and drop the embargo?

as long as there’s a Castro in power and Cubans in Florida, we’ll have an embargo. sad. stupid. and true.

By The Other Jack

October 14, 2008 11:11 AM | Link to this

USinUK

Dad died in 1973. He was shell shocked and always had drinking problems. He contracted cancer in the 60s. They had put a steel plate in his head and when the cancer treatment caused his blood pressure to spike, the steel plate caused a major artery to rupture and he died.

He was a good guy. Funny, very smart. And that side of the family is tall, blond, blue eyes and never loses a single hair. I have cousins that look like 50 year old male models.

I take after my Mom. We are pretty when we are young, but as we age … we age.

He would tell stories about the war. I never saw him upset until the Me-li massacre incident. He said that the marines would kill everybody in South Pacific villages. It was war. He was a coxswain in the Navy that drove a LST: big boat that carried heavy mobile armor like tanks so he interacted a lot with the marines.

The South Pacific was dirty, nasty, hot, bloody and the Japanese were absolutely crazy.

Dad turned me into a huge fan of Fighter pilots. He said that they saved his life almost every day. Chuck Yeager, Greg Boyington, Butch O’Hare, Duke Cunningham, Steve Richie and yes, John McCain, were my idols growing up. And the PLANES!!! P-38 Lightening, gull winged Corsair and his favorite the P-51 Mustang.

As much as I dread a very liberal president having an even more liberal congress, I don’t want John McCain being subjected to people like Bill Maur and other one sided comedians.

Anyway, I wish Dad had lived. I was still a kid when he died and I would have loved for him to see me in that F15-B.

By The Other Jack

October 14, 2008 11:27 AM | Link to this

USinUK, Kimberly

Spielberg did something in Saving Private Ryan that I had never seen. When Hank’s character got hit, you saw it from a distance, from the point of view of the Germans. You just saw another soldier fall. That said so much. EVERY soldier had a story.

Clint Eastwood turned me against him in one movie: Letters from Iwo Jima. He showed an American platoon that murdered their prisoners because it was inconvenient to keep them alive and then showed the Japanease going out and saving American soldiers and then caring for them. What an absolute Hollywood anti-American crock of sh^t.

I saw an interview with him where he admited that they had searched and searched and never found evidence of a single act of kindness by the Japanese toward the Americans at Iwo, but he put the two scenes in “for effect”. The b^stard should be shot.

By USinUK

October 14, 2008 12:04 PM | Link to this

TOJ -

Anyway, I wish Dad had lived. I was still a kid when he died and I would have loved for him to see me in that F15-B.

I’m so sorry about your dad - especially losing him so young. I lost my mom 15 years ago - so I was much older than you - and I still miss her every. single. day.

The South Pacific was dirty, nasty, hot, bloody and the Japanese were absolutely crazy.

which is why they trained in SoGa. did you know that’s also why they built the Z Corridor along the south of the state - so they could transport trainees from LA/MS/AL and GA to the coast for shipping out? true.

He showed an American platoon that murdered their prisoners because it was inconvenient to keep them alive and then showed the Japanease going out and saving American soldiers and then caring for them.

funny - that wasn’t my take-away at all. it was only 1 US soldier that shot 1 Japanese soldier (the protagonist of the movie escaped) - and my impression was that 1 soldier was more of a “bad apple”, to use W’s phrase. I watched the movie with my Dad, who has read pretty much everything about the Pacific theater - he didn’t seem to have any problem with it. (shrug)

And the PLANES!!! P-38 Lightening, gull winged Corsair and his favorite the P-51 Mustang.

gotta say, there are few sights prettier than a Spitfire … we live close to one of the big 3 airbases involved in the Battle of Britain, so we get a lot of fly-overs when there’s an airshow on … Spitfires are a beautiful thing to see. and Lancaster bombers???? criminey, 1 flying over makes our house rumble, I can’t imagine what it was like when they had 20/30/50 of them heading towards Germany.

By Archie

October 14, 2008 12:13 PM | Link to this

I think it’s Shanti who’s drinking the Koolaid and it’s spiked. I agree 100 percent with Andrea’s rebuttal because with all the important issues going on that’s where the focus should be. Palin did get more coverage initially than any of the candidates because she’s a good-looking woman but now that’s worn off and you know, you’ve got this bad economy, bad war, and millions without health insurance. Good job Andrea.

By USinUK

October 14, 2008 12:25 PM | Link to this

heading home for the night … have a good evening, all …

and TOJ - have a good time in VA - be careful, you hear!?!

By Gandalf, the Grey

October 14, 2008 12:35 PM | Link to this

TOJ, that Clint Eastwood really blew it with that movie! Japs were monsters! We had to kill every last one on the island hopping campain. Killing a prisoner? He was a jap! Who cared! War is Hell. I say Kill ‘em all, let God sort ‘em!

By The Other Jack

October 14, 2008 1:08 PM | Link to this

USinUK

Brit planes were very nice. The Lancaster was a hell of a bomber, but because of it’s night raiding capabilities, our B-17s were forced to do the daylight raids.

The thing about the Mustang was the sound and that was all because of England. The Merlin (Rolls Royce) that the brits dropped into it made it into a monster.

I had always heard about the sound, but right after the Oklahoma City bombing, I went with the P-51 racer called Miss America to Oklahoma City for an air show to video tape it. Wow. I finally understood. That sound must have terrified our enemies.

But we will never really understand what hundreds of B-17s escorted by hundreds of Mustangs must have sounded like. I’m sure for plenty of Germans, that was the last sound they ever heard.

By kimberly

October 14, 2008 1:46 PM | Link to this

My father was a fighter bomber pilot (‘58-‘74), both full time and later in the National Guard. He knows how the military works: If your daddy and grandaddy were bigshots, it doesn’t matter how big of a f—-up or slacker you are, your mistakes will be covered and forgiven, and you’ll get promoted and given new planes. He is unimpressed with McCain’s service record, pilot record, Senate record, and flip-flopping, whatever-he-thinks-might-work campaign rhetoric. (Ditto McCain’s pandering to the religio-fundie votes with “doesn’t read but repels witchcraft” Barbie.) My father thinks war sucks, and young men and women should stop dying for a lie. He feels that military strength is important for a solid national DEFENSE, and is therefore squandered on unwarranted OFFENSE which costs lives, trillions of taxpayer dollars, and the trust of everybody except the “party first” loyalists and the private contracters who have raped our treasury. My father has already voted early for Barack Obama and Jim Martin, and hopes the rest of you will too. Thanks for listening.

By Gale

October 14, 2008 2:04 PM | Link to this

Kimberly, I agree with your father, except on his vote. UNfortunately, both candidates are poor choices, IMO.

By Sunshine

October 14, 2008 2:09 PM | Link to this

“doesn’t read but repels witchcraft” Barbie—Funniest line today! Hi all, can’t really post today, but love checking in! Have a good one!

By Bruno

October 14, 2008 2:25 PM | Link to this

Unfortunately, both candidates are poor choices, IMO.

I’m with you, Gale. In so many ways, McCain reminds me of Bob Dole—both won their party’s nomination well past their prime, and both ran an extremely poor campaign, relying on past accomplishments rather than presenting a positive vision for the future. McCain has been talking up the last debate, claiming he’s going to “knock it out of the park”. I have my doubts….

In spite of all that, I can’t bring myself to vote for Obama and his vision of bigger government and higher taxes.

By Gandalf, the Grey

October 14, 2008 2:30 PM | Link to this

Kiimberly, thank your dad for his service for us all, but now I see where you get you (DUMBASS) quality from, dear old dad! What a (DUMBASS) he is voting for a socialist after fighting for this great nation. Thanks for listening! I guess McCain’s daddy got him shot down all those time? That’s his fault. Sorry Bruno, stupidity as deep as this needs scorn. Kimberly I think you suck, oxygen that is, as in your an oxygen thief!

By Gandalf, the Grey

October 14, 2008 2:40 PM | Link to this

The Band of Brothers actually trained in North Georgia, just 90 minutes away from Atlanta. You can go the Museum located 160 N. Alexander Street, Toccoa, Georgia 30577 and see the actual Stable that Easy Company stayed in! The crated it up and moved it from England! Plenty of weapons and such for the history buff. Must stop at the Bus Stop Cafe for a Bacon, Lettuce and Fried Green Tomato Sandwich!

By Bruno

October 14, 2008 2:42 PM | Link to this

Sorry Bruno, stupidity as deep as this needs scorn.

And just when I was considering nominating you for “Mr. Congeniality”…..

By Bruno

October 14, 2008 2:44 PM | Link to this

Out of curiosity, Gandalf, what is your opinion of how well McCain has conducted his campaign?

By Gale

October 14, 2008 3:18 PM | Link to this

So what is it with the GOP that they cannot float a decent candidate? Not just this year, but must years that I remember. I would tend to agree with the GOP platform if they would just listen to the base and get out of the religious right rut they are in. OK, the fundies give campaign money. They are apparently easy marks for anyone that says they will fight the two issues that matter to them. Who cares about war, education, health care or the economy. The only important issues appear to be gay marriage and abortion laws. They get whipped into a blind frenzy every election cycle by these two issues. Geez, why doesn’t the GOP just ignore them one time? Especially this year, for crying out loud. Do they really think the fundies would have voted for Obama? They really had to put Palin on the ticket to make that group happy? And by doing so, caused a lot of lukewarm idependents to lurch right to the Dems.

By Gandalf, the Grey

October 14, 2008 3:20 PM | Link to this

Bruno, he’s not doing too good, he was far from my first choice (That would be Fred Thompson). I was trying really really hard to leave Kimberly alone, but, read her post….But back to your question, Obama is the scariest canidate possible. Big, no HUGE Goverment…I think even Hillary doesn’t have such grandious ideas as he. Tax corporations, who some of us know, a corporation doesn’t pay any taxes, the comsumers of thier good do. Didn’t JC (Jimmy Carter not the original) try some crap like that in the late 70’s? Weren’t 55 MPH speed limits fun! Those days will return with Obama, that’s why I am voting McCain.

By Bruno

October 14, 2008 3:41 PM | Link to this

So what is it with the GOP that they cannot float a decent candidate? Not just this year, but must years that I remember. I would tend to agree with the GOP platform if they would just listen to the base and get out of the religious right rut they are in. OK, the fundies give campaign money. They are apparently easy marks for anyone that says they will fight the two issues that matter to them. Who cares about war, education, health care or the economy. The only important issues appear to be gay marriage and abortion laws. They get whipped into a blind frenzy every election cycle by these two issues. Geez, why doesn’t the GOP just ignore them one time? Especially this year, for crying out loud. Do they really think the fundies would have voted for Obama? They really had to put Palin on the ticket to make that group happy? And by doing so, caused a lot of lukewarm idependents to lurch right to the Dems.

Gale—I’ve asked myself the same questions many times. I guess, in the end, the conservative message of small government and self-reliance just isn’t sexy enough to stand on its own. IMO, the Dems have the easier sales job: just promise everyone a free ride on the backs of the rich and you’re “in like Flynn”. Of course, this year, the conservative message is an even harder sell since Bush has apparently jettisoned any pretense of being a conservative with his “bail out” plan in which the Feds are now acquiring a stake in private banks. If this isn’t a dangerous precedence, what is?

By Bruno

October 14, 2008 3:46 PM | Link to this

Bruno, he’s not doing too good, he was far from my first choice (That would be Fred Thompson).

To be honest, I never learned enough about Fred Thompson to support his campaign. I remember him not projecting himself well in the Republican debates early this year.

I was trying really really hard to leave Kimberly alone, but, read her post….

Regardless of her political views, I respect kimberly as a hard-working single mother. Can you do the same?

But back to your question, Obama is the scariest canidate possible. Big, no HUGE Goverment…I think even Hillary doesn’t have such grandious ideas as he. Tax corporations, who some of us know, a corporation doesn’t pay any taxes, the comsumers of thier good do. Didn’t JC (Jimmy Carter not the original) try some crap like that in the late 70’s? Weren’t 55 MPH speed limits fun! Those days will return with Obama, that’s why I am voting McCain

I think your comparison of Obama to Jimmy Carter is valid, on many levels. Which is why I would never vote for Obama in a million years.

By Bruno

October 14, 2008 4:01 PM | Link to this

Part of the reason that I’m still very pessimistic regarding the economy is that I firmly believe that our military presence in Iraq will be drastically reduced within the next 6-12 months, which will free up nearly 500,000 people. That is, 500,000 more people without a job. A lot of liberals apparently have missed the point that war=jobs. I’m not saying this to promote war as a legitimate job-creation enterprise, just being realistic.

By Bruno

October 14, 2008 4:10 PM | Link to this

To be fair to Bush, however, I think we all owe him a collective thanks for keeping the country running smoothly back in 2001-2003. When you consider the bleak economic outlook following the dot.com bust compounded by the 9/11 attacks, I think he and his advisors pulled us out of some deep doo-doo relatively unscathed. At the same time, I think Bush and all of Congress fell asleep at the wheel the past 2 years in not addressing the impending credit crisis. Of course, there’s no reason to cry over spilt milk now….. It does gall me, however, when liberals try to lay the blame for the whole mess at the Republicans’ feet. Who exactly was the chairman of the House Banking Committee the past several years? Barney Frank.

By Sunshine

October 14, 2008 4:10 PM | Link to this

Bruno—the conservative message of small government and self-reliance just isn’t sexy enough to stand on its own. IMO, the Dems have the easier sales job: just promise everyone a free ride on the backs of the rich and you’re “in like Flynn”.

Honestly I don’t think that statement has anything to do with why someone would vote for a democrat. I believe in gun control, I believe in equal rights for all people and currently for people who are in a same sex relationship, I believe in a woman’s right to choose, I believe in less war and more diplomacy, I don’t believe in torture or “any means necessary” style interrogation, I don’t believe in domestic wire tapping, I don’t believe we should ban stem cell research. I don’t believe that the Republicans are the fiscal conservatives that they have painted themselves to be nor do I believe they have cornered the market on God and love of Country. My vote, and the other people I know who passionately believe in the Democratic party platform, are not just lazy free loaders as you would like to characterize them. They are standing up for what they believe in, not sticking their hand out!

By Sunshine

October 14, 2008 4:15 PM | Link to this

That is, 500,000 more people without a job. Hey Bruno, Mr. Obama has a plan for that, he wants to help create those jobs in the “Green” Sector, you should read about it on his website! :-)

By Gale

October 14, 2008 4:25 PM | Link to this

Sunshine, some of the things you mention are not “republican” as much as they are part of the social conservative agenda. Those are the things that are killing the GOP for moderate Americans.

By JokesOn

October 14, 2008 4:26 PM | Link to this

conservative message of small government and self-reliance just isn’t sexy enough to stand on its own

The biggest problem I see is that two different meanings of “conservative” have been merged. If repubs returned back to the actual political definition of “conservative,” I would most likely switch back over. Seems the temptation to dupe religious/evangelical people by saying “hey, you are conservatives? So are we!” in order to get votes was too much.

Now, I fear it is too late to separate the two.

By Gandalf, the Grey

October 14, 2008 4:28 PM | Link to this

Sunshine: there is a lot of B****** on that website! :-)

By Gandalf, the Grey

October 14, 2008 4:28 PM | Link to this

Sunshine: there is a lot of B****** on that website! :-)

By Gandalf, the Grey

October 14, 2008 4:28 PM | Link to this

Sunshine: there is a lot of B****** on that website! :-)

By kimberly

October 14, 2008 4:34 PM | Link to this

Since no one seems to be concerned about the fact that war=death and destruction, let’s look at the economics of it then: My tax dollars not only pay the salaries of our over-worked, stretched-thin military personnel, but also the contractors from Parsons, KBR, Halliburton, Blackwater, etc., who are making up to ten times what the soldiers make in Iraq. Further, at least one of those corporations in receipt of my tax dollars has moved its HQ to Dubai to avoid paying American income taxes on a good portion of those billions, stowed away from the prying eyes of low-paid, over-worked, easily-bribed American federal auditors.

WHY NOT spend that money paying people to work HERE? There are no jobs here, you say? There could be: let’s shore up our infrastructure so more bridges don’t collapse underneath the cars, build more reservoirs and water treatment plants, levees to protect our port cities, clean forms of energy, and perhaps even harvest more of what we have under our own ground. Heck, we could save money paying the SAME people to work here instead of there, skipping the hazard and “foreign country” pay. There’s plenty of work to be done in America. My current BIGGEST EVER Federal government (with unprecedented expanded powers, spending, and debt) enlarged exponentially by the “small government” Republicans, could simply shift to giving a damn about Americans for a change, and not secret profits in far away places, hidden under the banner of “Freedom,” a rousing hate speech, and a couple of flags. Personally, I’ll feel safer when our bases back here have strong, well-rested soldiers in them, our borders and ports have guards and inspectors, and guardsmen sleep at home three weekends a month, ready to mobilize in an emergency. I’ll feel we’ve “WON” in Iraq when the Iraqis start governing themselves and spending their own oil money, instead of ours, on their own stuff. (Afghanistan, anyone? Gee, no record profits to be made there, huh? Too bad.)

But then, I’m just a thief of oxygen; what do I know? Thanks for the enlightenment, Sparky.

By Sunshine

October 14, 2008 4:36 PM | Link to this

You may not like Barney Franks but her are some facts about his voting record:

2/16/07 Vote 99: H CON RES 63: This measure expresses the House’s disagreement with President Bush’s planned troop buildup in Iraq. Voted Yes.

1/18/07 Vote 40: H R 6: This bill would repeal tax cuts to oil companies and mandate that they pay a fee to remove oil from the Gulf of Mexico. It would also fund renewable energy programs. Voted Yes.

1/17/07 Vote 32: H R 5: This bill would lower the interest rate on student loans. Voted Yes.

1/12/07 Vote 23: H R 4: This bill would allow the government to negotiate directly with drugmakers for lower prescription drug prices for individuals using Medicare. Voted Yes.

1/10/07 Vote 18: H R 2: This bill would increase the federal minimum wage from $5.15 an hour to $7.25 an hour over two years. Voted Yes

9/28/06 Vote 502: H R 5825: Electronic Surveillance Modernization Act. Voted No.

12/14/05 Vote 630: H R 2863: Supported a ban on cruel, inhuman or degrading treatment of detainees held by U.S. forces and to requires the military to follow the Army field manual for interrogations. Voted Yes

He sounds like one of the good guys in my book!

By Bruno

October 14, 2008 4:36 PM | Link to this

Sunshine—good response, though I don’t agree with all your points.

I believe in gun control

You’re going to have to be more specific as to what type of gun control you support. I believe in some limits on firepower, but support the right of citizens to own shotguns and handguns so that they can defend their homes and families.

I believe in equal rights for all people and currently for people who are in a same sex relationship

True conservatives believe in equal rights for all citizens. Gay “marriage” will always be a sticking point, however, due to the insistence on using the same word to describe both hetero and homosexual unions. As far as specific rights (e.g. hospital visitation, etc.), I don’t know anyone who would deny those basic rights.

I believe in a woman’s right to choose

As do most conservatives. I remain respectful of those who oppose abortion for spiritual reasons, however.

I believe in less war and more diplomacy, I don’t believe in torture or “any means necessary” style interrogation

Historically, it has been the Democratic Party who has gotten us involved in foreign wars. The Bushes broke that mold, although I do think that Bush II had to respond to the 9/11 attacks in some way. As for using torture, I’m with you, although there has been some debate as to whether we truly crossed the line in using “waterboarding”.

I don’t believe in domestic wire tapping

Ditto.

I don’t believe we should ban stem cell research.

I oppose fetal stem cell research, but support the other types of research using stem cells derived from other sources.

I don’t believe that the Republicans are the fiscal conservatives that they have painted themselves to be nor do I believe they have cornered the market on God and love of Country.

Agreed. The Repubs have become the “borrow-and-spend” party, unfortunately.

My vote, and the other people I know who passionately believe in the Democratic party platform, are not just lazy free loaders as you would like to characterize them. They are standing up for what they believe in, not sticking their hand out!

While I give you that respect, many Dems are, in fact, free-loaders.

By The Other Jack

October 14, 2008 4:47 PM | Link to this

Kimberly

Your father wasn’t the first person to believe that war sux. Tell him I said thanks for serving.

But your assessment of the female governor of the State of Alaska says volumes about this week’s topic.

SNL has made her out to be a brainless barbie. To hell with everything she has accomplished. Unfortunately, many people have no deeper depth of thinking than what they are told by a very biased entertainment industry.

You are about to get what you want: the most liberal president in our history and the most disliked and liberal congress will become a total dictator state with Ms. “I don’t like the way the vote is going so we are going home” pelosi at the helm. Good luck if you are actually paying taxes. If you are not, you will get a Gov’ment check every tax season while the rest of us are struggling to pay the huge increases, which he refuses to talk about. Bush gave us a livable tax rate. Your man is about to repeal that while claiming that he won’t raise taxes.

The best thing about all of this is that people like SNL, Bill Mahr and the rest of the Hollywood elite will lose their best entertainment tool. They will actually need to start being funny instead of making fun of Republicans. Just think about all the world famous anti-Bush actors and comedians that have made a living by being the propaganda mouthpiece for the DNC.

I have never had a bumper sticker in my life, but there are several that I am looking at including

Bend over America, The Democrats are in Charge

I told you so. (I voted for McCain)

Don’t gag on all that liberalism, America.

My Government just spent 700 billion dollars and all I got was this lousy bumper sticker.

And my own:

If Jesus wasn’t holding my hand, I’d be kicking your a^s.

By Bruno

October 14, 2008 4:52 PM | Link to this

The biggest problem I see is that two different meanings of “conservative” have been merged. If repubs returned back to the actual political definition of “conservative,” I would most likely switch back over. Seems the temptation to dupe religious/evangelical people by saying “hey, you are conservatives? So are we!” in order to get votes was too much.

JokesOn—You’re singing my song. All the pandering to the religious right makes me sick.

By Bruno

October 14, 2008 4:55 PM | Link to this

But then, I’m just a thief of oxygen; what do I know?

Excellent post, kimberly.

By Bruno

October 14, 2008 4:59 PM | Link to this

You may not like Barney Franks but her are some facts about his voting record:

Nice job, Sunshine, except you didn’t include any of his votes/policies as the chairman of the House Banking Committee.

To all: It’s nice to see some discussion of the issues this afternoon without all the personal attacks.

By The Other Jack

October 14, 2008 4:59 PM | Link to this

Gale

So what is it with the GOP that they cannot float a decent candidate?

Two words

John Kerry. Give me a break.

And the reason why you are only hearing about gay marriage is because you are listening to what you are being told instead iof listening to the candidates. I haven’t heard a single word from either candidate about gay marriage. The Democrats have avoided talking about gay marriage because they know that they will have to take a stand if they do, and that ain’t going to happen.

Obama is a state of the art, politician that is as well versed in the political lie as anyone in history. We aren’t going to raise your taxes? No, we are just going to repeal the Bush tax breaks that gave the middle class huge breaks. The results? HUGE tax increases for almost every single American that is making over 20 grand a year.

Let’s not talk about my close friends, let’s talk about issues. But if your close friends prove that you are not trustworthy, how can we believe what you say about the issues?

State of the art. As good as it gets. And he has a propaganda tool in the liberal news media and the VERY liberal entertainment industry that would make Goebbels salute.

As I told Kimberly, you are about to get what you wanted. A smiling, slick-a^s Chicago politician that has no problem paying off thugs to subvert our election process.

Congratulations.

By Bruno

October 14, 2008 5:02 PM | Link to this

P.S. to kimberly: Keep working on the proper use of a semicolon, dear. ; > }

By The Other Jack

October 14, 2008 5:15 PM | Link to this

Sunshine

i’m going to ask that you think a little bit beyond what CNN and ABC tells you.

When the oil companies are taxed what do you think happens?

Do you think that they have a stock holder’s meeting and the head of the oil companies get up to the podium and say: OK, guys. They caught us. Get your checkbooks out because we have taxes to pay.

Is that what you think happens?

This may come as a huge surprise to you but not a single stock holder or company leaders ever pays a dime in those taxes. Did you know that?

Do you know who pays those taxes? Take a guess.

Let me give you a hint:

Do you drive a car?

Do you ever buy gas?

Do you realize that the oil companies are free to add those taxes, plus whatever they decide is required for a handling charge to the price of that gas? Don’t you think that they just might do that?

When Barney Frank voted to tax the oil companies, he voted to raise YOUR price of gas. the oil companies are laughing their a^ses off at people like you who think that it hurts them. They could not care less. How about you? Do you mind paying those taxes, because that is exactly what you are doing.

Minimum wage? Do you eat fast food? Have you noticed that the price of almost all fast food has increased about 80% in the past two years? But isn’t it nice that all those kids can buy bigger i-pods.

Isn’t Barney a nice guy?

By kimberly

October 14, 2008 5:20 PM | Link to this

Sorry, TOJ, but your defense of the pretty Governor has no cred. I quit watching SNL years ago — just don’t find it funny — and only saw snippets. I DID, however, see actual interviews with the Governor. In one, she could not provide the name of one single publication she reads or has ever read to stay informed of current events, nor a single piece of anything she’s ever read that shaped her world view. Even GANDALF can stop flogging it long enough to rattle off the names of the blue boy mags on his bathroom floor! Dude…. she wasn’t picked for her “accomplishments,” which would put her at the back of the line behind Christie Todd Whitman or Kay Bailey Hutchinson in terms of accomplished Republican women. She does indeed have qualities, but let’s not confuse them with qualifications.

BTW, I also loathe Bush’s best friend Nancy Pelosi, but I don’t think it’s within my capacity to loathe her as much as you do. I think it’s funny, however, that you think “Liberalism” is the main thing you’re gagging on in this country. If you’d stop and spit once in awhile, you might be surprised to find what kind of nastiness you’ve been swallowing.

By Sunshine

October 14, 2008 5:23 PM | Link to this

Bruno, quite respectfully, you don’t have to agree with my points. While I understand you are just trying to keep the debate going, the points are why I vote democrat. Just that, there is more to it than this myopic view of the “bad guys Vs. the good guys” that I believe most republicans see the world through. Who ever the bad guy is at the moment: communist, non-Christians, Arabs, welfare recipients, woman/doctors/politicians that believe in choice the list could go on forever, just pick someone you don’t like and let Sarah Palin talk about them ;-). I just never find it is that simple. People are facinating, diverse, wild creatures that have all kinds of issues, when you pigeon hole them into the “enemy” you are usually wrong. Just my two cents, and on a lighter note…

I saw a t-shirt that I just loved the other day it said “Democrats are sexier, who ever heard of a good piece of Elephant?”

By USinUK

October 15, 2008 8:16 AM | Link to this

Brunoooooooooooooo -

Who exactly was the chairman of the House Banking Committee the past several years? Barney Frank.

um. wrong, my dear. past several months, yes (22, to be exact) … but the Dems only took over the house in Jan 2007. prior to that, the chairman of the House Financial Services committee was Mike Oxley of Ohio (of the Sarbannes-Oxley Act).

if you want to see the House Financial Services markup sessions since Rep Frank has been at the helm, may I suggest you visit:

http:// financialservices. house. gov/ markups.shtml

if you want to have an opinion on Barney Franks, fine - just make sure it’s based on facts

GtG - re Toccoa - I’ve been to Toccoa more than a few times for band camp when I was in high school (no, I didn’t play the flute) - so, didn’t even know about the museum. will definitely have to make a visit next time I have an extended pilgrimage back to GA.

Did I mention how much I loved the Band of Brothers series??? :-)

By Gandalf, the Grey

October 15, 2008 8:28 AM | Link to this

Who can say ACORN? And who can say what they are doing is good for America? Obama is/was a community activist right? Isn’t he frieds with that professor that is a bomber? I believe in Gun Control, if by gun control you mean hitting your target! I believe in a womans right to choose, if by choose you mean closing her legs or opening them! When did taking a human life become a choice? Kimberly glad you realize now that you are in fact an oxygen thief and have admitted it publicly. Minimum wage raises hurt this country, you (D*******)!

By The Other Jack

October 15, 2008 8:31 AM | Link to this

Kimberly Good answer. So you thought that you could answer and I wouldn’t have time to respond because I am leaving today. Ahah!! I have foiled your eeeevil Democratic plans and was ready this morning with your answer all made out and ready to cut and paste. (See isn’t this better than hating each other?)

Sorry, TOJ, but your defense of the pretty Governor has no cred. I quit watching SNL years ago — just don’t find it funny — and only saw snippets.

That may be true but those imitations have become part of the American culture. Whether you saw it on SNL or the hundreds of times the snippets were played, you saw it. I think that shows how deeply entrenched the entertainment propaganda is.

I DID, however, see actual interviews with the Governor. In one, she could not provide the name of one single publication she reads or has ever read to stay informed of current events, nor a single piece of anything she’s ever read that shaped her world view. I saw that interview. It was conducted by the same woman that had allowed Hillary to use the Today show to launch the “Right Wing Conspiracy” talking point, while she sat there and batted her eyes.

But just for fun, here’s a question for you:

What publications does Barrack Obama read to keep him up on current events? Or Joe Biden? Or Hillary Clinton? Or John McCain?

Start the Jeopardy Music.

Times up. OK, the reason why you don’t know is that none of those people have ever been asked that question. Can you tell me why they were never asked that question? It was a gotcha question. It was a stupid question. She was asked that question again in a later interview and she listed several publications.

Now let’s talk about gotcha questions. Anything that is going to make the interviewee stop and have to remember specifics in the way of names or dates or specific publications i.e. something that she never thinks about is a gotcha question. It makes her look indecisive and it makes her look stupid.

It worked. Palin’s mistake was the fact that she didn’t completely humiliate Katy Couric for asking the question. Palin: What kind of question is that, Katy? I’ve never heard anyone ask that kind of question, ever. (lighten it up) Now you’re not playing “gotcha” like my last interviewer did, now are you? Now Katy. Do you really want me to endorse a magazine? Don’t you think the country is more interested in what I think than what I read? i.e. anything that would have throw the question back at Couric, thus putting her on defense. It would have been cut. No CBS producer is going to allow their anchor to look stupid, but it would have burned Katy and that is the point.

Whoever trained her needs to be fired. Joe Biden would have had Katy Couric crying by the time the interview was over. And Katy Couric knows that so she would never ask that question of him. I blame Palin for being naïve and not laying into Couric in her nice little Midwestern Hockey Mom politeness. She could have ripped Couric apart if she knew what she was doing. I’ll guarantee that it will never happen again.

Again this ties in with this week’s subject. You are a smart woman. But you respect and trust CBS News and Katy Couric. What did they do with your respect and trust? They used them to show you just what they wanted you to see. They know that you will respect what they say, no matter how unfair it actually was. And now you are taking about it on here just like it actually had some credibility. Everything worked perfectly for the very liberal media. It almost always does.

Even GANDALF can stop flogging it long enough to rattle off the names of the blue boy mags on his bathroom floor!

Flogging it? Kimberly!! Were you talking dirty to me? I like it!! But girl, you are going to HAVE to come up with something better than Gandalf spankin’ the monkey.

But anyway ( I KNOW that was an attempt at throwing me off, you eeeeevil democrat, you.)
Let me put an NBC digital HD camera in his face, let me light the room and let me put a lapel mike on his clothes and a boom mike over his head and give him one immediate shot at an answer. I would be willing to bet that he, nor you could tell me what your own name was.
Dude…. she wasn’t picked for her “accomplishments,” which would put her at the back of the line behind Christie Todd Whitman or Kay Bailey Hutchinson in terms of accomplished Republican women. She does indeed have qualities, but let’s not confuse them with qualifications.

No, I don’t buy that. (and stop calling me dude) She doesn’t fit into the mold of your basic politico, but Katy Couric would have never been hired as a newsperson for the first several years that women started being news people. She was too damned cute. Times are changing. The days of a woman having to be an angry person in order to be taken seriously are over. Wouldn’t you agree that is a huge step in real women’s rights?

She is the governor of the state of Alaska. Becoming a governor of a state is a huge accomplishment in anyone’s book, except the book that the liberal media would like for us all to read. She is also proving to be at least as an accomplished speaker as Mr Obama , except when her teleprompter went down, she covered herself like a pro as opposed to Obama who sounded worse that Bush EVER did.

Look. I would have picked someone else, like Elizabeth Dole, but she’s too old. But of all the Democrats … hell, of all the African American Democrats, Obama would have never made the cut. Personally, I think Al Sharpton is one of the smartest men in politics. He is pretty radical but you know what you are getting. The only thing that keeps me from running, screaming into the night about Obama is that I’m sure he will be as disloyal to his questionable friends as he has been to everything and everybody that he come close to.

BTW, I also loathe Bush’s best friend Nancy Pelosi, but I don’t think it’s within my capacity to loathe her as much as you do.

I think it is. But I know my limitations. I can’t do anything about Nancy Pelosi. But I’m impressed that you don’t like her either.

Every election year, I always vote with the knowledge that my vote is the vote that cancels the vote of some arrogant liberal, like say: Babs Streisand. That has actually motivated me to vote several times.

This year, I think I will be canceling Pelosi’s vote. That is unless you want me to be canceling yours. ; o) (No, I don’t think you are arrogant)

I think it’s funny, however, that you think “Liberalism” is the main thing you’re gagging on in this country. If you’d stop and spit once in awhile, you might be surprised to find what kind of nastiness you’ve been swallowing.

Oh we aren’t gagging yet. Bush has kept that from happening. Put “never question his party” Obama in the White House and let your and my hero, batting eyed Pelosi have a 60% majority in the Congress where every anti-capitalistic, anti-military, anti-middle class, anti-freedom idea that any special interest group with a check book decides to push. Let our taxes go through the roof while YOUR Congress is hell bent on income distribution.
We will be gagging. We will be puking and we will be broke.

Have a good week and tell Gale and USinUK I said to behave. Be back next week.

By USinUK

October 15, 2008 8:44 AM | Link to this

Have a good week and tell Gale and USinUK I said to behave. Be back next week.

be safe! good luck - enjoy the folliage!

By The Other Jack

October 15, 2008 8:55 AM | Link to this

UsinUk

Thanks, kiddo. I am outta here!!

By Gale

October 15, 2008 9:07 AM | Link to this

My goodness things got active after I left yesterday. “Sarbannes-Oxley Act USinUK, you said a bad thing. Talk about unintended consequences. SOX has almost single-handedly stalled American business. I think it is mostly a jobs program for auditors. Our staff spends so much time preparing “proofs” for auditors, they barely have time to actually analyze the business. The SOX controls I’ve seen do NOT keep corporate American from cooking the books if that is what they want to do.

I have been thinking this week that the McCain campaign, especially with the Palin choice makes me think the Republicans have decided to throw this election. In my warped imaginings, I figure they think an Obama administration and a democratic congress would f*ck things up so badly that they would be sure to own the government from 2012 to 2048. And they could kiss off the social conservatives by saying, hey, we picked one for you and you didn’t care enough to get her elected. Now you are on your own.

By USinUK

October 15, 2008 9:25 AM | Link to this

Gale -

The SOX controls I’ve seen do NOT keep corporate American from cooking the books if that is what they want to do.

yeah - but what it does do is hold he CEOs responsible for when they do. they sign off on the reports, now, and are held responsible for their contents in a way that they weren’t before. SOX isn’t perfect, but I think making sure companies cross their i’s and dot their t’s is a good thing (and not just because Mr. USinUK is in IT governance).

And they could kiss off the social conservatives by saying, hey, we picked one for you and you didn’t care enough to get her elected. Now you are on your own.

bah. we’ve been saying that they were going to divorce the bible-thumpers for years - they never will because it’s their reliable voting bloc.

By Gale

October 15, 2008 9:43 AM | Link to this

IT governance? Many of the controls we now have in IT have nothing to do with protecting the integrity of our books. Some of the controls are good and they are things I’ve advocated for year. Some, for a small company like ours, just make it hard to get anything done. Some security nuts just decided that SOX gave the authority they wanted to control things.

The CEO has to sign off, yes. But if the auditors pass their hands over all the accepted controls, all is kosher. But maybe not so, because there are plenty of ways around the controls. It is like getting away with murder with a legal technicality.

By USinUK

October 15, 2008 9:51 AM | Link to this

Gale -

Some of the controls are good and they are things I’ve advocated for year. Some, for a small company like ours, just make it hard to get anything done.

and that’s always the complaint about governance - which is why I tell him he has the red-headed-stepchild job and he needs to accept that he is fighting an uphill battle everyday - both from the auditors that want more and the IT team that wants less. I know that, after he tells me about the battles he fights, my first reaction would be “eff this … I’m going into lighthouse keeping!”

there are plenty of ways around the controls

not if my “suspenders-and-a-belt” hubby has anything to do with it! ;-)

but, you’re right - SOX adds a lot of extra layers to the process. however, if you look at the intent - to help guarantee that the numbers in the quarterly releases are, in fact, what they say they are - it’s probably an 80%+ success. which, when you think about government, is pretty darned good.

and, yes, I am a glass is half-full kind of person.

By USinUK

October 15, 2008 9:58 AM | Link to this

Oct. 15 (Bloomberg) — A drunken passenger on a Turkish Airlines plane flying to St. Petersburg threatened to hijack the aircraft, telling crew he had a bomb on board, Chief Executive Officer Temel Kotil said.

The would-be hijacker, who had “consumed a large amount of alcohol,” was subdued without the need for intervention by other passengers, Kotil told NTV television today. CNN Turk had earlier reported that passengers overpowered the hijacker.

WTF is going on with drinking on airlines, lately??? we’ve had 2 incidents in the last few months of people being SO polluted they fought the stewards and other passengers who were trying to keep them from opening the plane’s doors … and now some half-wit gets bladdered and says he has a bomb.

when I flew to the states last March, the guy sitting in front of me ended the flight with so many empty wine bottles at his seat he looked like a recycling center … he was drunk and obnoxious to all sitting around him.

frankly, it’s almost worth prohibiting drinking on flights because of this kind of behaviour.

By Gandalf, the Grey

October 15, 2008 10:02 AM | Link to this

Kimberly, you ignorant Dum Bass Slut, keep your pornographic fantasies to yourself. You sick deviant liberal!

By Gandalf, the Grey

October 15, 2008 10:02 AM | Link to this

Kimberly, you ignorant Dum Bass Slut, keep your pornographic fantasies to yourself. You sick deviant liberal!

By Gale

October 15, 2008 10:08 AM | Link to this

I guess my biggest problem, from an IT standpoint, is that after creating processes and working for several years to gain the confidence of our user community, SOX blew it away. It did this by adding layers. We went from “never-ending projects” because user never passed the arm-waving point of need definition, to defined solutions with clear end dates. The users know what to expect and when they will get it. But now, the many layers of approvals and the delays those cause, have led our users back to creating their own solutions because things that should take a few hours now take weeks.

OK, end vent. So, you planning to watch the debate tonight to see if John can turn things around?

By kimberly

October 15, 2008 10:10 AM | Link to this

“What do you read?” is only a GOTCHA question if you ask it of an ILLITERATE person! Geez. The “party first” crowd will defend ANYTHING their people do. Clearly there is no hope for America when ignorance and illiteracy are applauded as a virtues.

To all the teachers out there: You tried! God bless you. Sorry the GOP doesn’t respect or support your work. Hope y’all enjoy this beautiful day.

By USinUK

October 15, 2008 10:17 AM | Link to this

Gale -

So, you planning to watch the debate tonight to see if John can turn things around?

will try to catch it when Channel 4 runs it on Thursday - but, otherwise, it’s on a weeeeeeeee bit past my bedtime.

I will read all the coverage of it in the morning, though.

I’m just excited that I’m off on the 5th, so I get to hang out online and watch results all day. although, I have a sneaking suspicion that it will be probably be called by the time I wake up. woowoo!!

By Gale

October 15, 2008 10:18 AM | Link to this

USinUK, the latest Morford column reminded us that booze sales go up in a recession. If you want to make money, buy stock in booze. I don’t know why they sell booze on planes anyway. That is the last place I want to be without my wits about me. Well, anyplace where I have already given away some control of my surroundings, actually. Not to mention drinks on a plane are quite expensive.

By Gandalf, the Grey

October 15, 2008 10:23 AM | Link to this

Kimberly, obviously you read PRAVDA and Al Jezeera you Dum Bass!

By HeeHaw

October 15, 2008 10:27 AM | Link to this

If you’d stop and spit once in awhile, you might be surprised to find what kind of nastiness you’ve been swallowing.

so he is a swallower?

By USinUK

October 15, 2008 10:27 AM | Link to this

kimberly -

“What do you read?” is only a GOTCHA question if you ask it of an ILLITERATE person!

anything that she St. Sarah of the Tundra can’t answer is a “gotcha” question … the same way any website that says something that these guys don’t like is a “liberal/biased” website …

I could continue, but I think you get my drift.

what I want to know is what does It was conducted by the same woman that had allowed Hillary to use the Today show to launch the “Right Wing Conspiracy” talking point, while she sat there and batted her eyes. have to do with the price of peas in Piccadilly???

meanwhile … I haven’t seen her get back to Katie or anyone else on the other non-FannieMae regulations McCain is for … here, I’ll replay TOJ’s Jeopardy theme music …

and as far as Becoming a governor of a state is a huge accomplishment in anyone’s book … all that is is winning an election. GOVERNING WELL is an accomplishment. winning an election when you’re the republican alternative to 1) a republican everyone hates and 2) a democrat in one of the reddest states of them all is pretty much a walk in the park.

By Gale

October 15, 2008 10:32 AM | Link to this

“What do you read?” There were so many ways Palin might have answered that question instead of silence. How about, Well you know as governor, I don’t have time to pick up magazines. I regularly get extracts of … or how about side-stepping with, As a mom, I do spend time reading Parents’ magazine. and move on to a valid question. That question should not have stopped her. I agree it was a bit insulting. THe only excuse is that the public know nothing about her and she needs to let us learn about her.

By USinUK

October 15, 2008 10:33 AM | Link to this

Gale -

USinUK, the latest Morford column reminded us that booze sales go up in a recession. If you want to make money, buy stock in booze

I’m telling ya, go for the comfort food portfolio - anything salty and starchy (Frito-Lay, Coca-Cola, Cadbury) … then, when you see employment start to go up, you shift your investments into the more high-cost items …

unfortunately, though, unemployment is still heading upwards, so it’ll be a while before you should start buying shares of Luis Vuitton

By Gandalf, the Grey

October 15, 2008 11:23 AM | Link to this

I hear Kimberly spits

By USinUK

October 15, 2008 11:28 AM | Link to this

Gale -

• I agree it was a bit insulting. THe only excuse is that the public know nothing about her and she needs to let us learn about her*

why is it insulting to ask someone who is going to be a chicken-bone away from the oval office what they read/where they get their news?? this is someone who wasn’t thoroughly vetted by the McCain campaign and someone no one knows anything about.

I’m sorry, but after nearly 8 years of heckuvajobBrownie and the rest, We the People deserve a lot more than “trust me, she’s qualified” from the campaign staff.

By kimberly

October 15, 2008 11:30 AM | Link to this

I agree it was a bit insulting. THe only excuse is that the public know nothing about her and she needs to let us learn about her.

That’s more than an excuse; it’s a valid reason, and IMO, not at all insulting. Palin gave almost no interviews for weeks after being selected to be one McChickenbone away from the Presidency. The interviewer’s job is to ask questions that reveal more about her “world view” and the things that are important to her.

Newcomers should be prepared to answer questions if they want to be taken seriously, and she should have seen it as an opportunity instead of a bullet to be dodged and whine about later. The Supreme Court Case question was also valid, though most people would have some trouble with it if caught off guard. But MOST PEOPLE don’t stand to be in the position of appointing Supreme Court Justices, so again, that it was a “gotcha question” doesn’t give me confidence in either the candidate’s judgement, or the notion that one can govern effectively while not knowing sh— from shinola about the history of our laws. Sing it, y’all! “We don’t need no edu-cayyyyy-shun!”

By USinUK

October 15, 2008 11:31 AM | Link to this

GtG -

you put the a$$ in “no class”

cut it out. you’re being a jerk.

By USinUK

October 15, 2008 11:47 AM | Link to this

kimberly -

The Supreme Court Case question was also valid, though most people would have some trouble with it if caught off guard.

gah. no excuses. MOST people weren’t governor of a state that had the Supreme Court decide against them in a major financial case just a few months before the interview. that one should have been an easy base hit for her.

as for the Moose-in-the-headlights “because she has a lav mike and a camera on her” excuse … if she can’t stand her ground with Katie Couric, do we really think she’ll be tough in talks with Ahmadinajad??? Al Maliki? Karzai??? sorry, but this woman is a chocolate easter bunny - cute and shiney, but hollow on the inside.

By Bruno

October 15, 2008 11:53 AM | Link to this

um. wrong, my dear. past several months, yes (22, to be exact)

Well, excu-u-u-u-se me! ; > } I should have said “past few years” or “past couple of years” to be more precise. My overall point is that the Republicans are taking the full blame for the credit crisis when, in fact, the Democrats have been just as guilty in the lack of oversight/action.

Newcomers should be prepared to answer questions if they want to be taken seriously, and she should have seen it as an opportunity instead of a bullet to be dodged and whine about later.

Agreed. Picking Sarah Palin as his runningmate is only one of the many missteps that McCain has made during this campaign.

By Gale

October 15, 2008 11:55 AM | Link to this

I’m sorry, but after nearly 8 years of heckuvajobBrownie and the rest, We the People deserve a lot more than “trust me, she’s qualified” from the campaign staff.

And I agree. I only find it insulting because noone else was asked a similar question. If the interview was filled with fluff questions like, what is your dog’s name if your child is named after a snow plow? or whatever it is. Getting to know you things. She isn’t like Obama, who published a book to introduce himself. But if the interview was about potential executive policy, I want questions about policy, not what formed her thoughts about getting there.

By Gandalf, the Grey

October 15, 2008 12:02 PM | Link to this

That Dum Bass Kimberly swallows? What are you saying Expat?

By Gandalf, the Grey

October 15, 2008 12:02 PM | Link to this

That Dum Bass Kimberly swallows? What are you saying Expat?

By USinUK

October 15, 2008 12:11 PM | Link to this

Bruno -

I should have said “past few years” or “past couple of years” to be more precise. My overall point is that the Republicans are taking the full blame for the credit crisis when, in fact, the Democrats have been just as guilty in the lack of oversight/action.

and you’d still be wrong - past year and 3/4. that’s it. :-)

as for the blame, I still lay much of it at the feet of Alan Greenspan - there was a great article in last Friday’s NYT about how he fought regulation of the derivatives market. a lot of it was reiterated today in a similar article in the WaPo. in all fairness, Robert Rubin fought it, too. but, Alan Greenspan was also pushing for ARMs and for banks to create new “creative mortgage products”, as well - all the while, snowing Congress with his Greenspan-speak.

GAH.

http://www. washingtonpost. com/ wp-dyn/content/ article/2008/10/14/AR2008101403343.html?hpid=topnews

it’s a little long, but a great read.

By Bruno

October 15, 2008 12:15 PM | Link to this

Just that, there is more to it than this myopic view of the “bad guys Vs. the good guys” that I believe most republicans see the world through.

He sounds like one of the good guys in my book!

Sunshine—If you check in today, I have to call you onto the carpet regarding your comments yesterday re: conservatives and the good guy/bad guy thing. There likely is some truth to your statement, but is it not true for those on the “other side of the aisle” as well? For proof, I’ve repeated your statement that Barney Frank is one of the “good guys”. In fact, if you read closely the comments made by the “liberals” on board here day after day, you will never ONCE see anything positive said about Bush or any other Republican (including Ronald Reagan). Again, in my mind, this strikes directly at the credibility of the liberal posters. If you are going to claim to be “more inclusive”, “more compassionate”, and “more intelligent” than conservatives, you’re going to have to back off on the demonization of all conservatives. As I’ve stated many times, I give equal credence to both sides for sincerely wanting to make the world a better place. Do you?

By USinUK

October 15, 2008 12:15 PM | Link to this

GtG -

you’re being more of an a$$ than usual - cut it out. no one wants to read your middle-school-level comments. either grow up or go find a “New 90210” forum where you’ll be among your own kind.

By Gandalf, the Grey

October 15, 2008 12:18 PM | Link to this

If she swallows or not doesn’t really matter, what does matter is who she is going to pay back for all the oxygen she is stealing! It’s worse than global climate change!Polar Bears can’t breath, whales are heading to the beach look for the stolen oxygen, and you all ignore it! Dum Bass Kimberly must pay for her crimes of oxygen theft!

By Gandalf, the Grey

October 15, 2008 12:18 PM | Link to this

If she swallows or not doesn’t really matter, what does matter is who she is going to pay back for all the oxygen she is stealing! It’s worse than global climate change!Polar Bears can’t breath, whales are heading to the beach look for the stolen oxygen, and you all ignore it! Dum Bass Kimberly must pay for her crimes of oxygen theft!

By Bruno

October 15, 2008 12:20 PM | Link to this

Gandalf—Unless your goal is to run every last poster off this board, I’m respectfully asking you to cut back on the vulgar comments to kimberly and others.

By USinUK

October 15, 2008 12:28 PM | Link to this

Bruno -

if you read closely the comments made by the “liberals” on board here day after day, you will never ONCE see anything positive said about Bush or any other Republican (including Ronald Reagan)

unfair and untrue. I’ve said before (and I’ll say again) that I think Bush did a great job appointing Ben Bernanke to the Fed. Everything else he has done has sucked pond water, but I’ll give him mad props for that. As for Reagan, crumbs - he’s looking downright liberal these days in comparison to a lot of the cretins we have in the current administration - so there - that’s a second positive thing.

By Bruno

October 15, 2008 12:30 PM | Link to this

So how about it, Libs? Can any of you find it in your hearts and brains to give Bush credit for anything positive he has done?? Can you find it in your hearts and brains to criticize ANY Democrat??

In response to JustaJew’s challenge that Bush hasn’t done anything personally to help the folks in Africa, I invite anyone to google in “Bush and malaria” to see the proof. Here is just one of the links which details the effort spearheaded by Bush to reduce the incidence of both AIDS and malaria in Africa:

www.msnbc.msn.com/id/23218791/

And here is an excerpt from that article:

The U.S. drive to spend money on the health of Africans, including a much larger effort on HIV/AIDS, is appreciated here. In a recent Pew Research Center report, African countries held more favorable views of the United States. than any others in the world. And Bush, the face of the U.S. superpower, is showered with praise wherever he goes. It seems a world away from the sentiment at home, where his public approval is at 30 percent.

By Bruno

October 15, 2008 12:34 PM | Link to this

So, USinUK—Can I assume that Alan Greenspan isn’t on your Christmas card list this year?

By Bruno

October 15, 2008 12:43 PM | Link to this

Everything else he has done has sucked pond water

Personally, I thank Bush for rebuilding our military intelligence capabilities that the Clinton crowd so happily gutted so that we haven’t had to endure any more attacks on American soil from the fanatical Muslims. What say you?

I also give the Bush team credit for helping to steady the economy following the dot.com bust back in 2001 with the 9/11 attacks thrown in for good measure. If the recent federal bailout of the banks works to prevent a massive recession, I will reluctantly give him and his team credit one more time. I say reluctantly, because this is a problem that sould never have come to pass. There were plenty enough warning signs that action should have been taken long ago.

In the critical side of the ledger, I fault Bush for advocating the Patriot Act along with his unwillingness to (at least publicly) utilize better diplomacy.

By USinUK

October 15, 2008 12:44 PM | Link to this

Bruno -

Can I assume that Alan Greenspan isn’t on your Christmas card list this year?

he’s on my “flaming bag of poo on his doorstep” list … (kinda like “say it with flowers” … but different)

By JustAThought

October 15, 2008 12:50 PM | Link to this

Didn’t Bush start all the malaria and HIV assistance in Africa AFTER he realized that he was leaving quite a negative legacy here in the USA? So he figured that if he finally paid some attention to Africa, with such a noble cause, he MIGHT be able to leave office with SOMEthing considered a Positive Legacy.

seriously, when EXACTLY was all that initiated? Well into his second term?

By Bruno

October 15, 2008 12:52 PM | Link to this

past year and 3/4. that’s it.

BTW, dear, 10/12 = 5/6, not 3/4, since we’re being so precise today. ; > }

he’s on my “flaming bag of poo on his doorstep” list

Back in Jersey, we didn’t bother with the flaming bag on the doorstep—4 cut tires and a smashed windshield usually got the message across.

By JustAThought

October 15, 2008 12:53 PM | Link to this

“In June 2005, President Bush launched the President’s Malaria Initiative, a five-year $1.2 billion program to combat malaria in 15 of the hardest-hit African nations. Already, PMI is saving lives and spreading hope. Aid from the American people — that’s the American taxpayers — has reached more than 6 million Africans. This year, 30 million more will receive lifesaving medicines, sprays and nets as the program expands. The Malaria Initiative also calls on developed countries, private foundations and volunteer groups to help reduce suffering and death caused by this disease. “

By Bruno

October 15, 2008 1:01 PM | Link to this

Didn’t Bush start all the malaria and HIV assistance in Africa AFTER he realized that he was leaving quite a negative legacy here in the USA? So he figured that if he finally paid some attention to Africa, with such a noble cause, he MIGHT be able to leave office with SOMEthing considered a Positive Legacy.

seriously, when EXACTLY was all that initiated? Well into his second term?

Way to spin a positive into a negative, JustAThought. Are you a second cousin to JustAJew?

USinUK—I can’t get your Washington Post link to work. At least give me credit for trying.

By Sunshine

October 15, 2008 1:16 PM | Link to this

Good morning all, I wish I had more time to post but the boss is out of town and I am wearing 50 (more) hats than I usually do!

Good Morning Bruno,

You are right, calling Barney Franks one of the “Good Guys” was a bit of double speak, but we all have our politicians we like because they vote/fight for what we ourselves believe in, and that more clearly is what I meant.

There likely is some truth to your statement, but is it not true for those on the “other side of the aisle” as well? well to this yes and no. I am sure some of the more hard right republicans (I try not to say conservatives b/c of exactly what we talked about yesterday, I do not believe the republicans are the conservative ones any more) will disagree with me but, you do not see the hate speech, the “Barak Hussein sees the country so different than you and I that he pals around with terrorist” followed by shouts of “KILL HIM” uttered by a national democratic candidate. Now I am not saying every Democratic rally is all peace niks and roses but, that the Vice Presidential candidate just continued on like there is nothing wrong with it, when the Republicans (as demonstrated at their convention) have no problem hauling people out of an event when they get unruly, is passive approval.

you will never ONCE see anything positive said about Bush or any other Republican (including Ronald Reagan).—Well since I hate there terms “always” and “never” let me break the history here on the board. I think Ronald Reagan’s diplomacy with Gorbachev, and his part in the events that lead to the Berlin wall coming down was a crowning achievement in the history of America, and much, if not all the credit for it should be given to Mr. Reagan. I also believe the precision with which Desert Shield/Desert Storm was conducted is a credit to the First President Bush, I believe he had a well designed and executed strategy that lead to a minimum loss of American lives and deserves great credit for liberating the people of Kuwait.

If you are going to claim to be “more inclusive”, “more compassionate”, and “more intelligent” than conservatives—Your words, not mine. I think people are not so black and white, nor are most divisive issues. And I believe that a hand up, as in education, training, and short term assistance in a crisis, is not a hand out. I think things that help someone become a better contributor to society, through becoming more educated about everything from birth control to global economics, is a good use of tax money, in most cases. The old adage about the fish vs. fishing. But I believe there is a bitterness, especially here on the board, from those who (it seems) are the republicans, about giving any help to anyone.

By Sunshine

October 15, 2008 1:20 PM | Link to this

As far as not having anything good to say about Mr. GW Bush, another day and another reason he has lower voter aproval than any president in history. They knew and approved of it all along:

The Bush administration issued a pair of secret memos to the CIA in 2003 and 2004 that explicitly endorsed the agency’s use of interrogation techniques such as waterboarding against al-Qaeda suspects — documents prompted by worries among intelligence officials about a possible backlash if details of the program became public.

The classified memos, which have not been previously disclosed, were requested by then-CIA Director George J. Tenet more than a year after the start of the secret interrogations, according to four administration and intelligence officials familiar with the documents. Although Justice Department lawyers, beginning in 2002, had signed off on the agency’s interrogation methods, senior CIA officials were troubled that White House policymakers had never endorsed the program in writing.

(www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/10/14/AR2008101403331.html?hpid=topnews)

By Sunshine

October 15, 2008 1:23 PM | Link to this

Oh, and Ladies, thank your for debunking the RIDICULOUS ‘poor Sarah Palin was the target of “Gotcha” Journalism’. I didn’t have the energy to argue against such an absurd point of view.

By Bruno

October 15, 2008 1:46 PM | Link to this

If you are going to claim to be “more inclusive”, “more compassionate”, and “more intelligent” than conservatives—Your words, not mine. I think people are not so black and white, nor are most divisive issues. And I believe that a hand up, as in education, training, and short term assistance in a crisis, is not a hand out. I think things that help someone become a better contributor to society, through becoming more educated about everything from birth control to global economics, is a good use of tax money, in most cases. The old adage about the fish vs. fishing. But I believe there is a bitterness, especially here on the board, from those who (it seems) are the republicans, about giving any help to anyone.

Good rebuttal, Sunshine. It is true that you haven’t directly claimed that liberals/Democrats are all-around superior people to conservatives/Republicans, but some of your liberal cohorts on the blog HAVE made that claim before. Occasionally you seem to imply the same sentiment, however, e.g. your Barney Frank comment. My point is that human nature applies to all peoples, not just those of one political party.

As far as the fish vs. fishing and bitterness, I plead guilty to some degree based upon my life experiences. Other than the supposed “advantages” that come from being a white male, I was never given much in the way of resources or encouragement while growing up and had to scratch for every dime. As such, I still have a chip on my shoulder toward children who grow up in wealthy homes. As far as a “hand-up”, I support public education, but that’s about it.

By Sunshine

October 15, 2008 1:47 PM | Link to this

Oh and Bruno, since we are playing a game of “never have you ever” why don’t you sing the praises of a Democrat? Here I will start you off with some, the balanced buget left by Mr. Clinton, the booming economy under Mr. Clinton, the elimination of the national debt under Mr. Clinton, and that nasty democratic congress, there are more but I am sure you can come up with a few of your own, come on now its only fair, I showed you mine, now show me yours! ;-)

By Bruno

October 15, 2008 2:04 PM | Link to this

I showed you mine, now show me yours! ;-)

Whoa, ba-bee! And you know how sexy I think pregnant ladies are! ; > }

I’ve praised Clinton many times here for the “good times” of the 1990s, both in terms of a strong economy and in terms of people having a more positive outlook on life. Personally, my best years economically were in the 1990s. All in all, I thought the 90s were great—except for the music. Out of the “grunge” movement was born the current “emo” style of rock music, which I loathe. Who wants to hear a bunch of whiners? (I’m setting you up, LaughoftheDay—don’t let me down).

By Bruno

October 15, 2008 2:07 PM | Link to this

Any chance that you are a blonde, Sunshine?? No offense toward the brunettes of the world, but something about blonde hair gets my engine revving. Hot, hot, hot.

By Gale

October 15, 2008 2:15 PM | Link to this

Bruno, I have that same chip on my shoulder and sometimes it gets mighty heavy. I strongly support government backed student loans for college and for technical and trade training for qualified students. I have seen far too many not-ready-for-college students in college because the tuition was funded. For that matter, I would offer more grants as well as loans. But they must be equally available to qualified students. I grind my teeth over students who cannot get grants because their parents make too much money (but not enough money for tuition unless they take out a second mortgage.)

Education is one of the best ways to reduce poverty, IMO. I wonder what it might do for the drop out rates if kids knew they could get funding for college or a trade school after high school? How many are dropping out simply to get a jump start on earning a living because they know they don’t have money for secondary education anyway?

By Sunshine

October 15, 2008 2:17 PM | Link to this

Sorry to let you down but not a blonde! As for show me yours, I’ll show you mine I meant your POLITICS! And don’t you have a girl friend! :-) Nice to see we can clash on our points but still be nice, gives me hope for this world!

By Bruno

October 15, 2008 2:19 PM | Link to this

Wow—right on cue, when I mentiones how pitiful 90s music is, the oldies station here at work broke out George Harrison’s “Give Me Love (Give Me Peace on Earth)”:

Give me love Give me love Give me peace on earth Give me light Give me life Keep me free from birth Give me hope Help me cope, with this heavy load Trying to, touch and reach you with, heart and soul

OM M M M M M M M M M M M M M M M M My Lord …

PLEASE take hold of my hand, that I might understand you

Won’t you please Oh won’t you

Give me love Give me love Give me peace on earth Give me light Give me life Keep me free from birth Give me hope Help me cope, with this heavy load Trying to, touch and reach you with, heart and soul

We still miss you, George.

By Gandalf, the Grey

October 15, 2008 2:36 PM | Link to this

Get rid of Student Loans altogether, nationalize the university system. You go to college, and then serve 4 years as:
a. A Soldier, Sailor, Marine or Airman
b. A member of some community service program
c. a member of some world wide service organization such as the peace corps

No exceptions! Rich, poor, black, white, hispanic, etc. all get the same education and serve the country! No service? No education. Easy when your are as smart as a 5th grader.

By Bruno

October 15, 2008 2:39 PM | Link to this

Bruno, I have that same chip on my shoulder and sometimes it gets mighty heavy. I strongly support government backed student loans for college and for technical and trade training for qualified students. I have seen far too many not-ready-for-college students in college because the tuition was funded. For that matter, I would offer more grants as well as loans. But they must be equally available to qualified students. I grind my teeth over students who cannot get grants because their parents make too much money (but not enough money for tuition unless they take out a second mortgage.)

Gale, of all the bloggers, I find your POV to be most similar to mine. More power to you!

As for show me yours, I’ll show you mine I meant your POLITICS!

Now you know why my blog nickname is Dog! (I’m know to redheads as the Mongrel).

And don’t you have a girl friend!

Don’t worry, she’s extremely “open-minded”.

Nice to see we can clash on our points but still be nice, gives me hope for this world!

Gald to hear that, beautiful! (despite no blonde hair ; > { )

By Gandalf, the Grey

October 15, 2008 2:44 PM | Link to this

Bruno, Peace is highly overrated, so be careful what you wish for.
Now that I have seen the light of this whole Marxist thing, everthing is so much clearer! Absentee father issue? No problemo! Since the goverment can do everything so much more efficiently, let’s gather up all the children of unwed mothers living in homes below some income level, let’s just use $1/4 million, move them into a camp where they can live and grow to respect the system above all else, educate them and let them have hope that they can change the world. Gather them together on May 1 and let Herr Obama read to them. Productive, happy, educated well adjusted little athiests to worship at the altar of global warming and Socialism.

By Gandalf, the Grey

October 15, 2008 2:44 PM | Link to this

Bruno, Peace is highly overrated, so be careful what you wish for.
Now that I have seen the light of this whole Marxist thing, everthing is so much clearer! Absentee father issue? No problemo! Since the goverment can do everything so much more efficiently, let’s gather up all the children of unwed mothers living in homes below some income level, let’s just use $1/4 million, move them into a camp where they can live and grow to respect the system above all else, educate them and let them have hope that they can change the world. Gather them together on May 1 and let Herr Obama read to them. Productive, happy, educated well adjusted little athiests to worship at the altar of global warming and Socialism.

By Bruno

October 15, 2008 2:45 PM | Link to this

b. A member of some community service program

Would joining ACORN qualify, Gandalf?

P.S. Thanks for backing off on kimberly.

By Bruno

October 15, 2008 2:50 PM | Link to this

Bruno, Peace is highly overrated, so be careful what you wish for.

Better RED than DEAD, right? Or was that better DEAD than RED?? I keep forgetting…..

Seriously, I agree with you, Gandalf. As creatures of the Animal Kingdom, our lot in life is to compete with other species and with one another in a fight for survival. We’re only at peace when we’re dead.

By Gale

October 15, 2008 2:54 PM | Link to this

Gandalf, I almost agree with your suggestion of education for service. But flip it around. First you serve, then you get free education. And for the Starship Troopers among us, you can also vote after you serve and not unless. Too many teens are not ready for higher education anyway. Let them get the crazies out of their system first so they will be ready to focus for 2, 3, 4 or 8 years of higher learning. The ‘party school’ ratings would be a thing of the past. Uh, well, college football would probably be a goner too. If people are in college to learn, do we really need high end college sports?

Bruno, I try to speak a straight line and not go off on tangents. I have to edit myself severely some days.

By Gandalf, the Grey

October 15, 2008 2:57 PM | Link to this

Okay every one join in if you know the words!
From each acording to his abilities, to each according to his needs!” Karl, the big guy
“Four legs good, two legs bad!” George Orwell
“Any man who is not a communist at the age of twenty is a fool. Any man who is still a communist at the age of thirty is an even bigger fool.” George Bernard Shaw
“Ask not what you can do for your country, but what your country can do for you!” Barry Obama
“Democracy is the worst form of goverment, ….except for all the rest” That British guy who kept saying the sky is falling (well, it was!)
NEXT? WE will solve the prison problem!

By Gandalf, the Grey

October 15, 2008 2:58 PM | Link to this

Okay every one join in if you know the words!
From each acording to his abilities, to each according to his needs!” Karl, the big guy
“Four legs good, two legs bad!” George Orwell
“Any man who is not a communist at the age of twenty is a fool. Any man who is still a communist at the age of thirty is an even bigger fool.” George Bernard Shaw
“Ask not what you can do for your country, but what your country can do for you!” Barry Obama
“Democracy is the worst form of goverment, ….except for all the rest” That British guy who kept saying the sky is falling (well, it was!)
NEXT? WE will solve the prison problem!

By Bruno

October 15, 2008 3:10 PM | Link to this

With the revelation of a second affair by Democrat Tim Mahoney, it appears that the Repubs aren’t the only “family values” politicians being busted these days.

By Gale

October 15, 2008 3:10 PM | Link to this

hmmm, on my radical days I have a solution for the prison problem. The big problem with my solution is it is temporary. Empty the prison cells and soon they will be full again.

By Gandalf, the Grey

October 15, 2008 3:17 PM | Link to this

Fundemental slip of the Heinlein mysteries there, Gale…Serve first then vote, Sounds good to me! military service to get a vote! I am in! But not the community service bull stuff, that isn’t going to cut it. Got to kill some Reds or Ragheads to qualify for that vote.
Got to keep that separate from the college thingie, with the goverment in control, we can more closely tailor our mind washing to the ways or Karl and that enviromentally wacko stuff. SO in 30 years we will have a society full of people who walk and ride bicycles, have sexual partner of thier own sex (I understand you can teach that in college) and bow down before the muslim fundementalist goveror that is persecuting them. Opps, that wouldn’t work, cuz the fundementalist muslims would kill all the homosexuals. Damn! I thought I had it all figure out. Back to the drawing board….I know let’s go on the 15th Crusdade! Oh I forgot a quote! “How do you tell a communist? Well, it’s someone who reads Marx and Lenin. And how do you tell an anti-Communist? It’s someone who understands Marx and Lenin.”
The Ancient and Silly Order of Ragnar to anyone who can name the quotee without going on the internet to look it up.

By Gandalf, the Grey

October 15, 2008 3:17 PM | Link to this

Fundemental slip of the Heinlein mysteries there, Gale…Serve first then vote, Sounds good to me! military service to get a vote! I am in! But not the community service bull stuff, that isn’t going to cut it. Got to kill some Reds or Ragheads to qualify for that vote.
Got to keep that separate from the college thingie, with the goverment in control, we can more closely tailor our mind washing to the ways or Karl and that enviromentally wacko stuff. SO in 30 years we will have a society full of people who walk and ride bicycles, have sexual partner of thier own sex (I understand you can teach that in college) and bow down before the muslim fundementalist goveror that is persecuting them. Opps, that wouldn’t work, cuz the fundementalist muslims would kill all the homosexuals. Damn! I thought I had it all figure out. Back to the drawing board….I know let’s go on the 15th Crusdade! Oh I forgot a quote! “How do you tell a communist? Well, it’s someone who reads Marx and Lenin. And how do you tell an anti-Communist? It’s someone who understands Marx and Lenin.”
The Ancient and Silly Order of Ragnar to anyone who can name the quotee without going on the internet to look it up.

By Bruno

October 15, 2008 3:23 PM | Link to this

hmmm, on my radical days I have a solution for the prison problem. The big problem with my solution is it is temporary. Empty the prison cells and soon they will be full again.

Didn’t Jesus say “the criminals will always be among us”? I think it was SOMETHING like that…..

I’m just praying now that you won’t be on the jury in case I get busted, Gale. Your new blog nickname is “No Mercy”! (Actually, that was the name of my bowling team—We always placed first or second every year before two of my teammates passed away).

By Bruno

October 15, 2008 3:28 PM | Link to this

Did you mean Groucho Marx and John Lenin, Gandalf?

Gotta run, but was curious to know if you saw the movie “Heavy Metal”.

By Sunshine

October 15, 2008 3:30 PM | Link to this

Could some one PLEASE explain to GTG how to post without it showing up two and three times!

As creatures of the Animal Kingdom, our lot in life is to compete with other species and with one another in a fight for survival. We’re only at peace when we’re dead.—Not passing judgment but I see this a fundamental difference in the way you and I think Bruno.

Gale, have you ever know anyone personally who went through the penal system?

By Gandalf, the Grey

October 15, 2008 3:47 PM | Link to this

Gale! But you are so very very wrong! In the new Obamanation, everyone will be full of love and, and, well, full of something… The solution is easy! Give all prisoners a job at ACORN! there ya go! Easy! Oh there and the IRSS, the new Internal REVENUE Suppresion Service. See, no corporation pays 1 cent of taxes…you and I do! When we buy stuff. NOT ONE CENT MORE IN TAXES IF YOU MAKE LESS THAT A 1/4 MILLION DOLLARS. OOPs, except we pay every penny of every tax. Obama is such a DUM BASS! And how many of you out there in OBAMAnation don’t see this? It’s classic socialist, marxist tactics. I think I said it best,earlier with a quote….”4 legs good, 2 legs bad!”

By Bruno

October 15, 2008 3:50 PM | Link to this

Not passing judgment but I see this a fundamental difference in the way you and I think Bruno.

Before Gandalf blasts you, Sunshine, I can only ask you to take a hard look at how “life” actually works. Because we live in relative luxury here in the US, cooperation seems like the norm. But, remember back just a few weeks when we had a gas “shortage” here in GA. Many gas stations had security guards or policemen stationed to maintain order. Just imagine if we had had a real crisis.

To be sure, I firmly beleive in “enlightened competition”, which involves a high degree of cooperation. In the end, however, it’s every man and woman for themselves. I didn’t design the system, but am just trying to be realistic about the nature of existence. We have to struggle to make every breath.

By Gandalf, the Grey

October 15, 2008 3:51 PM | Link to this

Bruno, great movie, Sunshine, I know how to post singularly, I just enjoy seeing mulitlble copies of my wit. It’s really the 386 SX25 that I use here at work. It’s damn picky and doesn’t run XP too well with only 8 MB of ram.

By Sunshine

October 15, 2008 3:58 PM | Link to this

I really try not to bring up religion in political debates but since you brought it up, I don’t know about “the criminals will always be among us” but the Bible does say this in Mathew 25:37-42:

37“Then the righteous will say to him, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and give you something to eat, or thirsty and give you something to drink? 38When did we see you as a stranger and welcome you, or see you naked and clothe you? 39When did we see you sick or in prison and visit you?’

40The king will answer them, ‘I tell you with certainty, since you did it for one of the least important of these brothers of mine, you did it for me.’

41“Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Get away from me, you who are accursed, into the eternal fire that has been prepared for the devil and his angels! 42Here’s why: I was hungry, and you gave me nothing to eat. I was thirsty, and you gave me nothing to drink. 43I was a stranger, and you didn’t welcome me. I was naked, and you didn’t clothe me. I was sick and in prison, and you didn’t visit me.’

Another reason I don’t believe that the GOP has the market cornered on God.

I have a fridge magnet that I love it says: “Yeah, like Jesus would ever own a gun and vote Republican” (Remember, its just a magnet! Smile)

By Gale

October 15, 2008 4:07 PM | Link to this

Heavy Metal? Don’t think so. It doesn’t ring a bell. As for No Mercy, fortunately my radical days are few and I don’t act on them.

Gandalf, I have in mind a military without so much need for killing. Those involved the the messy business of actual combat should be seasoned troops, not the 17-23 year olds putting in their duty.

Sunshine, I have a cousin who has done time. As I said before, I rarely act on my radical thoughts. I think the real problem with our penal system is not the prisons, but the justice system that has destroyed the concept of swift and fair justice.

By Gale

October 15, 2008 4:22 PM | Link to this

386 SX25 !! You must be joking. That can’t possibly be still functioning, much less be able to run XP.

Sunshine, it is the unrepentent criminals that have seen that the justice system is not working so they work the system. It is children who grow up with no consistent discipline. It is those same children as adults that don’t understand why the rest of the world doesn’t give them what they want like their parents did. Jesus ( and Matthew or whoever really wrote that) lived in a much harsher and immediate world than we do.

I would not act on my radical impulse to empty the prisons because I believe in dharma. At the same time, I would not (on a jury) acquit someone I believed to be guilty because a technicality would make the person “not guilty”. Cosmic rule can be harsh.

By EC Sedgwik

October 15, 2008 4:33 PM | Link to this

Go look in the mirror. your opinions are yours only. But then again that view reflects nothing

By Sunshine

October 15, 2008 4:35 PM | Link to this

I have to say I am with Bruno on this one, I hope you are never on my Jury Gale!

By Gandalf, the Grey

October 15, 2008 4:40 PM | Link to this

My magnets have 5 works of art from each of my sons 1st - 5th grade, “Still clinging to my religion and guns!” God is my copilot, Jesus is my door gunner, and the Ghost is the Bombadier” , “Peace through Superior Firepower!”, “Guarded by Smith and Wesson”, Sure I believe in Gun Control! Everyone should hit thier target”, “JOIN THE ARMY, TRAVEL TO FAR AWAY LANDS, MEET INTRESTING PEOPLE AND KILL THEM!” “BILLY ASKED HIS MOM, WHY TO LIBERAL STINK MOMMY? SHE ANSWERS SO BLIND PEOPLE CAN HATE THEM TOO SON!” DUMBASS! IT’S A BABY, NOT A CHOICE!“AND MY FAVORITE! “LIBERALISM IS A MENTAL DISORDER!”

By Gandalf, the Grey

October 15, 2008 4:49 PM | Link to this

GALE, a military is for one thing, and one thing only, killing and breaking things! (I know that is a Yogism…) Soldiers (and sailors, marines,airmen) aren’t policemen and shouldn’t used as policemen. WW II was the last time we used our might and then we failed to destroy the biggest enemy, the USSR, which we could have done in less than 36 months, turned the Germans around, given them a new uniform and Voila! Instant end to the cold war. Had we given McCarthy a chance in Korea, different world. Any hoot, we could have won the war in Vietnam, just needed to ignore borders and fight enemies, not borders. We need to move that spy HQ out of Manhattan and be done with it.

By Bruno

October 15, 2008 5:01 PM | Link to this

Best line from Heavy Metal, Gandalf:

(In John Candy’s voice) Back on Earth, I’m nothing, but here, I’m DEN!

By Bruno

October 15, 2008 5:05 PM | Link to this

Sunshine—I think your “Biblical” philosophy is great! Now, how about that loan we were discussing?

Just kidding, beautiful. Hope you are able to keep your positive outlook on life. Rmember, a conservative is simply a liberal who just got mugged…..

By USinUK

October 16, 2008 8:18 AM | Link to this

Brunooooooooo –

USinUK—I can’t get your Washington Post link to work. At least give me credit for trying.

Sorry, I should have posted the reminder – copy, paste, delete extra spaces

Personally, I thank Bush for rebuilding our military intelligence capabilities that the Clinton crowd so happily gutted so that we haven’t had to endure any more attacks on American soil from the fanatical Muslims. What say you?

Personally, I blame Bush for ignoring the warnings in the first place. He received a memo a couple of weeks before 9/11 that said “Bin Laden Determined To Strike US” and he said to the guy who thought it was so urgent that he hand-delivered the memo to W in Texas, “okay, you’ve covered you’re a$$” and proceeded to ignore it. He also changed the focus of the NSC away from terrorism despite the attack on the SS Cole a few months before. (google Richard Clark)

I also give the Bush team credit for helping to steady the economy following the dot.com bust back in 2001 with the 9/11 attacks thrown in for good measure. (snip) There were plenty enough warning signs that action should have been taken long ago.

We both agree on the warning signs. But, I can’t believe that you talk about warning signs while at the same time applaud the Bush Economic Policy post 9/11 – his policy was “shop-shop-shop”. He did nothing but encourage people to go out and continue spending and increasing their debt. He could have used that opportunity to reduce our dependency on foreign oil and rally the US to stand together against a common enemy, a la WWII. In the 1940s, they had posters saying “You’re driving with Hitler if you drive alone” – he could have done the same in 2001 and 2002, substituting Bin Laden. He could have offered financial incentives to auto companies to manufacture cars with better fuel efficiency (which would have helped the automakers as well as our economy as a whole). He could have done so much for the country, but he didn’t.

In the critical side of the ledger, I fault Bush for advocating the Patriot Act along with his unwillingness to (at least publicly) utilize better diplomacy.

The Patriot Act is a good place to start. Add to that: Dick Cheney and the energy meetings, Dick Cheney and the outing of Valerie Plame (who, by the way, was investigating Iran at the time of her outing … way to go guys!!!), Alberto Gonzalez and the White House’s advocacy of torture, Bush’s horrible response to Katrina, wiretapping US citizens without going through proper judicial channels, tax cuts during a war, his nomination of cronies rather than the best people for the job (Wolfowitz, Myers, Gonzalez, Feith, Brownie, etc etc etc), Karl Rove. And that’s just a start, or I’d be here all day.

again, the only thing I’ve approved of: Ben Bernanke. Thank god he nominated a guy who’s specialty is on the Fed’s role during the Depression - I have a feeling that expertise is going to come in handy.

By Sunshine

October 16, 2008 8:32 AM | Link to this

USinUK—Great post, well done! Great way to start off the day!

What did everyone think of the debates last night?

By Gale

October 16, 2008 8:41 AM | Link to this

Guys, I suspect I never will be on your jury because I never expect to see either of you in a criminal case. Besides, It is really odd, but lawyers never seem to want computer programmers on jurys.

Gandalf, I agree that military should not be soldiers. However, in the context I descibed, mandatory service positions would mostly be the support positions; something the government has largely contracted out to civilians anyway. Why pay big money to contract base cleanup when it can be done by soldiers? In our current scenario it is because it is very expensive to train and equip the military. We cannot afford to have them scrubbing floors. A trooper in his/her first tour would get basic training and then perform support duties with supervision. We would not pretend to teach them a skill they could take to the real world, other than discipline, work ethic, honor, the things one learns from working with a close group. By the end of that mandatory tour, the kid would have a better idea of where to go next, paid education/training or real military training.

The problems we have had, IMO, are because we have a basic identity conflict. We want to be the good guys and make everything nice, but to do that, we have to be nasty and hurt people. We don’t like the idea that to re-form a country, we have to take over and run things. We have learned in the past, that destroying cultures does not work. But we have not learned how to pacify an enemy and work with them to find peace. Maybe the problem is that politicians get involved when diplomats are needed. In Iraq, our leaders apparently thought we would roll through and topple Sadam and then the country would magically become a peaceful democracy.

In WWII, by the way, the USSR was not our enemy. The Russians have their our cultural identity that drives them to do what they do. Thier history is much different from ours and we should not expect them to act and react like Americans do.

I have said before, I am an idealist. It would be a fantasy to sweep away all the ugliness in the world and start fresh. But as Bruno says, we are creatures of the animal kingdom. Likely we would be back to the same place in a short time. Better we resolve the problems the hard way.

As EC Sedgwik said, my opinions are my own and I have no hopes of convincing anyone that I am right.

By USinUK

October 16, 2008 8:46 AM | Link to this

Sunshine -

What did everyone think of the debates last night?

it’s playing here on Channel 4 tonight, so I only know what I’ve read. what I can say is that McCain is already low in the polls with women (according to Gallup, 53% of women are for Obama, 39% are for McCain) and he didn’t do himself any favors by making sarcastic bunny ears around “women’s health” when discussing late-term abortions. BAD FORM.

from everything else I’ve ready, it sounds like McCain came of as Sen. McCranky while Obama came off as educated, informed and cool-as-a-bowl-of-cukes-with-mint-and-greek-yogurt …

By Gale

October 16, 2008 9:25 AM | Link to this

So, USinUK, you think McCain would appoint a vet for the “women’s health” official in the health department?

By USinUK

October 16, 2008 9:34 AM | Link to this

Gale -

So, USinUK, you think McCain would appoint a vet for the “women’s health” official in the health department?

hahahaha … been there, done that … same goes for putting an anti-birth control person in charge of family planning resources …

thank god, just a few more months and those yayhoos will be history.

By Gale

October 16, 2008 10:12 AM | Link to this

I am embarrarred that I forgot the last debate was even on last night. I’ve made up my mind, but I was curious. What do you think of the voter registration issue in Ohio? It looks like my home state is going to be back in the headlines for voting problems.

By Sunshine

October 16, 2008 10:21 AM | Link to this

*cool-as-a-bowl-of-cukes-with-mint-and-greek-yogurt *-very good analogy and now you are making me hungry! One of the best food finds of the pregnancy has been organic greek yogurt! There is nothing like it on earth, a little honey, some peaches or strawberries and it is like whipped cream only sooooo good for you! Must go to the store now! ;-)

By Googily Moogily!

October 16, 2008 10:32 AM | Link to this

Gale, here is the short take
Obama cleared it all up for me last night! Bill Ayres is a nice guy, not Obama’s friend and anything you did when Obama was 8 doesn’t matter! You won’t pay any taxes unless your filthy stinking rich, then we get all that money! Oh, taxes on corporations won’t affect you either. WE DON’T SPEND ENOUGH ON EDUCATION (though we spend more than any other country in the world per child)… what else, oh, even though he said he would sit down with EVIL DICTATORS without preconditions, it’s ok, because the father of lies, well, he lies. OMG, this man is so scary! He’s going to ruin this great country of our single handledly and you people are going to vote for him, Honestly I think he may be the anti-christ.

By Gandalf, the Grey

October 16, 2008 10:45 AM | Link to this

GM! Right on Brother! Power to the people! Weather Uderground forever!

By USinUK

October 16, 2008 11:39 AM | Link to this

Obama cleared it all up for me last night! Bill Ayres is a nice guy, not Obama’s friend and anything you did when Obama was 8 doesn’t matter … blahblahblah

ohfercrissakes … which is worse - sitting on a school board with someone who did something when you were 8 and for which he has expresed regret? or sitting on the board of an organization for 6 years, during which they supported death squads that killed health workers and nuns in Central America??? I’ll take Obama and Ayers over McCain’s work with Iran/Contra, thankyewverymuch.

You won’t pay any taxes unless your filthy stinking rich, then we get all that money!

no, it’s called reversing the trend by easing the tax burden for the middle class - which has gotten the shaft for the last 8 years while the rich have gotten all the breaks. unless you don’t mind paying more than your fair share while Paris Hilton gets to deduct tens of thousands from her taxes …

oh, even though he said he would sit down with EVIL DICTATORS without preconditions

which makes him just like the current administration.

He’s going to ruin this great country of our single handledly and you people are going to vote for him

jeebus on a pogo stick - he couldn’t do any worse than the Cretin in Chief we’ve been suffering through for the last 7+ years.

By EC Sedgwick

October 16, 2008 12:53 PM | Link to this

Thank you Andrea. I beleive Ms Glass would have approved of your rebuttal

By GOB

October 16, 2008 1:31 PM | Link to this

McCain started well last night, but boy did he fade when he started getting angry. He was all over the place in his answers too. He talked about the importance of special needs kids, coming back to Palin (although he kept mentioning autism and Palin, even though her kid has Downs Syndrome), but when Obama mentioned that funding of autism research is something that would be hurt by a spending freeze, McCain responded with the “see, he just wants to spend money” line.

It’s almost like he wasnt listening to real content, but just looking for spots that he could use the rehearsed lines. When he got angry about he came across like an old man yelling at the neighborhood kids…”Stay off my lawn!”

By Gandalf, the Grey

October 16, 2008 2:34 PM | Link to this

EXPAT statements like that throw me dangerously close to making the assumption that “the red curse” started this morning! Take a chill pill. Ayers is a bad man. Us rational people don’t associate with folks that bomb goverment buildings. We don’t hold politcal fund raisers in his living rooms either, go ahead and listen to this new incarnation of “SLICK WILLY”. WE need a name for him…TEFLON BARRY! He is a man who will ruin us. Watch and see….

By Gandalf, the Grey

October 16, 2008 2:34 PM | Link to this

EXPAT statements like that throw me dangerously close to making the assumption that “the red curse” started this morning! Take a chill pill. Ayers is a bad man. Us rational people don’t associate with folks that bomb goverment buildings. We don’t hold politcal fund raisers in his living rooms either, go ahead and listen to this new incarnation of “SLICK WILLY”. WE need a name for him…TEFLON BARRY! He is a man who will ruin us. Watch and see….

By LaughoftheWeek

October 16, 2008 2:38 PM | Link to this

Honestly I think he may be the anti-christ

between that and the Manchurian Candidate thing…..

By USinUK

October 16, 2008 3:05 PM | Link to this

GtG -

Us rational people don’t associate with folks that bomb goverment buildings. We don’t hold politcal fund raisers in his living rooms either

rational people don’t WORK ON THE BOARD for organizations that support and help supply death squads to go out and rape women and children. rational people don’t WORK ON THE BOARD for organizations that support and help supply death squads that go out and kill nuns and health workers. rational people don’t WORK ON THE BOARD for organizations that support and help supply death squads that torture and mutilate innocent civilians.

meanwhile … the Annenburg Foundation funded the CAC- are you saying they aren’t rational? are you saying Walter Annenberg is unamerican? that he supports terrorism? (I mean, he was the one who gave the group $50M - a signficantly bigger role than just serving on the same board).

Other members of the board: Stanley Ikenberry, president of the University of Illinois - is he irrational? does he support terrorism? Arnold Weber, former president of Northwestern U - is he irrational and a terrorist lover? Ray Romery of Ameritech … and a few others.

are you saying that they are all irrational and terror-symps?

please.

By The Other Jack

October 16, 2008 3:08 PM | Link to this

Kimberly

Well, so much for respectful discourse. You just can’t control all that hate, can you?

By The Other Jack

October 16, 2008 3:17 PM | Link to this

USinUK, Gale

Had a fantastic flight. The trees were Vermontish at the higher altitudes, but generally, I am about a week too soon. As soon as we landed, it began to cloudy up. Now it is starting to sprinkle so that part of the timing was perfect.

The images I had in my mind was much lower than we flew, but there are FAA restrictions up in these hills. Too many of those small little planes, planted themselves into the sides of mountains so they are now altitude restricted.

All in all, it was really great. My hands are still hurting from the death grip on my camera. Once we shot the little town, the old guy that was the pilot asked if I wanted to fly some more so we stayed up about two hours.

I have found a public Library with Wi-Fi, so i’ll check in, but it looks like discussing politics with any sort of civility just ain’t going to happen.

Have a great night.

By USinUK

October 16, 2008 3:21 PM | Link to this

TOJ -

hey buddy - didn’t think we were going to see you until next week … how’s Skyline Drive? how did the shoot go? how’s the leaf-peeping?

By USinUK

October 16, 2008 3:21 PM | Link to this

TOJ -

hey buddy - didn’t think we were going to see you until next week … how’s Skyline Drive? how did the shoot go? how’s the leaf-peeping?

By USinUK

October 16, 2008 3:35 PM | Link to this

TOJ -

All in all, it was really great. My hands are still hurting from the death grip on my camera.

hahahaha … I think my deathgrip would have been on the plane! glad to shoot went well!! how much longer do you think until it’s done?

Once we shot the little town, the old guy that was the pilot asked if I wanted to fly some more so we stayed up about two hours.

sa-weet! I’ll bet it was gorgeous, even if you were a week too early! I just love the autumn - chilly without being cold, the crispness of the air, putting on a sweater but not having to bundle up, the smell of leaves burning …

it looks like discussing politics with any sort of civility just ain’t going to happen.

um??? there’s no incivility here today - GtG needed a little reining in yesterday, but that was pretty much it. everyone has been playing nice in the sandbox INCLUDING kimberly (I reread everything from yesterday - she said nothing that crossed the line or was incivil)

By Bruno

October 16, 2008 4:11 PM | Link to this

Hey guys—I’m late today and don’t have much time, so I can’t address the excellent posts by Gale, USinUK, and Sunshine properly. Sorry. I did want to comment on the debate last night, however.

What interested me the most was a comment made following the debate by an “undecided voter” over at FOX: When asked who “won” the debate, one gentleman stated “Obama” without any hesitation. However, after rating the performance of the two candidates, he said that although Obama “won” the debate, he didn’t trust Obama and was going to vote for McCain! The interviewer didn’t follow up on this comment, but I found it intriguing. While I’m sure kimberly will see this as one more example of undeserved, out of control anti-intellectualism, I see it more as an example of trusting your gut instinct over your rational mind. As an avid poker player, that makes a lot of sense to me.

By The Other Jack

October 16, 2008 4:16 PM | Link to this

USinUK

I brought an editing computer up here and it is set up in my hotel (motel) room. I ain’t coming home until it’s done. Hopefully around the first of next week

I feel like such an impatient jerk up here. Everyone drives 10 mph under the speed limit in the left lane, in formation with the car in the right lane so there is no passing. Fast food is not. They fix it fast but if you are number three in line, take a nap. I … don’t … . know … what … I . . want . . to … eat … Maw … what … do … you … want … to … eat . . I . . don’t …know… paw. That … 5 … . dollar … meal … looks… .good… . Naw … we … that was when I ran screaming out the door (in my mind, anyway.) Most people are really nice, but being in a hurry is a sin. A mortal sin.

I tried to cut up a little with kimberly … well, you read it, but I won’t be trying that again.

I gotta run. Man, this is s great library. Unlike the multi-million dollar Atlanta libraries that are actually public use computer community centers, this place has BOOKS.

Have a good one.

By Bruno

October 16, 2008 4:17 PM | Link to this

sa-weet! I’ll bet it was gorgeous, even if you were a week too early! I just love the autumn - chilly without being cold, the crispness of the air, putting on a sweater but not having to bundle up, the smell of leaves burning …

Just so you know, USinUK, you missed a perfect evening here in GA last night. The temperature was perfect and we had a beautiful full moon to howl at. Do you see yourself returning to the good ol’ US of A one of these days?

By Sunshine

October 16, 2008 4:17 PM | Link to this

Hey USinUK,

speaking of incivility, I am on a pregnancy board on another site and them hormonal pregnant ladies got CRAZY over politics today! Dear lord, it made what goes on over here look like kindergarten, I had to get away, they are photo shopping peoples siggy pics so they are in KKK masks and other lovely creative things! All over the debate last night and just McCain Vs. Obama in general. Can’t we all just get along? wheeew!

By Bruno

October 16, 2008 4:30 PM | Link to this

them hormonal pregnant ladies got CRAZY over politics today!

Too funny, Sunshine.

Can’t we all just get along?

NO!

By kimberly

October 16, 2008 4:45 PM | Link to this

My name is being flung around far too much when I’m not here! Seriously, I’m not the amazing goddess people think I am. Just an ordinary human being who perhaps cares too much for my own good. You’ll be just fine without me, I promise! I shall aspire to wise up, pay attention less, blend in with the masses, and “get along” better. More sadness than hate here, dude. You mind if I call you dude? Good, ‘cause I practiced a couple things where I call you dude.

One thing that was clear (to ME, as in, MY PERSONAL observation) from watching last night’s debate: John McCain doesn’t give a F—- about the health or well-being of women! The sneer.. eye roll.. finger quoting of “health issues”. After all, he knows that if a woman is damaged or dies in the course of her reproductive obligations, she can be replaced with someone yonger, prettier, blonder, and richer….. He’d like the law to make any whining whatsoever from pregnant women completely irrelevant. “Don’t care how you got that way; don’t care what it does to you; don’t want to hear it.” At least he had the political savvy not to call us all C-words like he did his wife in public that time. Does temperament matter? Good question.

By Gale

October 17, 2008 8:28 AM | Link to this

There was (perhaps tongue in cheek) speculation on the radio this morning that market volitility was due to an article in The Onion. For your consideration. http://www.the onion.com/ content/news/bushcallsfor_panic

As usual, cut, paste, remove blanks.

By USinUK

October 17, 2008 8:31 AM | Link to this

TOJ -

that was when I ran screaming out the door (in my mind, anyway.) Most people are really nice, but being in a hurry is a sin. A mortal sin.

hahahahaha … oh, god, that reminds me of my many (m-a-n-y) forays below the gnat line in GA … the nicest people you’d ever want to meet - as long as you’re not in a hurry and need to get someplace or do something.

Bruno -

The temperature was perfect and we had a beautiful full moon to howl at. Do you see yourself returning to the good ol’ US of A one of these days?

we’ve had the same beautiful moon here, too - cool, clear nights and bright, crisp days. yay! yay! yay! it’s fall!!!

do I see myself moving back to the US or visiting? I’ll make my annual pilgrimage to the land of my birth (may-retta) in March or so. But, I doubt I’ll be moving back anytime soon (Mr. USinUK’s mum has severe arthritis, so we think that in a few years, she’ll be living with us … and all that … it’s one of the reasons we moved here).

I see it more as an example of trusting your gut instinct over your rational mind. As an avid poker player, that makes a lot of sense to me

sorry, but our “guts” haven’t exactly helped us over the last 7+ years - I’d just as soon people voted with their head and not anything located along the alimentary canal.

By Gandalf, the Grey

October 17, 2008 8:41 AM | Link to this

Kimberly! Thanks for caring I am glad to know “You’ll be just fine without me, I promise! YEAH! That is nice to hear!
You are so right! Barry not only wants to cut that baby out of you up to the moment of birth, if it by some miracle should survive, he says let it die! PRESENT! That’s some way to vote! He lies better than anyone since Clinton “I didn’t have sex with that woman, Monica Lew!”. (Clinton got a bad rap on that, I think he was telling Monica he didn’t sleep with that woman, Hilabeast!).
Get ready for good times to come in Obamanation! Obamanate people!

By Gandalf, the Grey

October 17, 2008 8:49 AM | Link to this

EXPAT the limey’s still get to see OUR moon? We put our flag in back in ‘69! It’s ours! Make them Brit’s look away!

By Gandalf, the Grey

October 17, 2008 8:49 AM | Link to this

EXPAT the limey’s still get to see OUR moon? We put our flag in back in ‘69! It’s ours! Make them Brit’s look away!

By USinUK

October 17, 2008 9:29 AM | Link to this

GtG -

hahahaha … actually, considering the deficit, maybe the US should charge a fee

By Gandalf, the Grey

October 17, 2008 10:40 AM | Link to this

$3 on a clear night, $1.50 on a partly cloudy one. Make checks out to Gandalf, that One, New Dwarrowdelf, Mines of Moria, ME 2112.

By Gandalf, the Grey

October 17, 2008 11:36 AM | Link to this

WHO doesn’ think that Rush’s 2112 is the greatest albumn of all time? AND IF NOT, well, first you’re a DUM BASS, and second what is your greatest albumn of all time?

By Sunshine

October 17, 2008 12:47 PM | Link to this

Tumbleweeds….