Woman to Woman

By USinUK

October 10, 2008 11:38 AM | Link to this

The end of July stats were more typical, with 83 percent of campaign stories featuring Obama, to 51 percent featuring Sen. John McCain

Wow. So the end of July – when the Dems were holding their convention and the GOP was in radio silence – the number of mentions of Obama was higher than McCain??? Gee. Why do you think that was?? Do you think it was because there was a Dem convention going on?? Do you think that there was also a lot of speculation about what Hillary’s convention folks were going to do?

And, in the months leading up, when it was a horserace between Obama and Hillary (while the GOP race was all sewn up for McCain), do you think that was WHY there were more stories about Obama than McCain? (and, again, look at all the crap that was flying from the Hillary camp – not all those Obama stories were positive)

And mentions do not equal positive stories. Criminey, look at the lipstick-on-a-pig brouhaha: Obama got p-LENTY of coverage that week. Was it good? No. So # of stories /= positive bias.

And what people think about the news???? Jeebus-on-a-pogo-stick … look at videos of rally attendees recently circulated on the internet and what these people think. They think ACORN is bad, but when pressed for specifics, they can’t tell you a thing about it. Most people think Fannie and Freddie are at fault for the current credit crisis, but can’t tell you why. What people think about the news doesn’t matter – what matters is the actual slant of the news. Show me THAT, Shaunti, or shaddup already.

As just two examples, Obama’s relationship with unrepentant former terrorist Bill Ayers remains “underground” or is minimized as “they hardly knew each other” (when that is demonstrably not true) instead of triggering a journalistic investigation into ideological similarities. (Can you imagine the media ignoring a similar story about John McCain?)

Funny you should ask because, you know, I can imagine that!! The news broke on Wednesday about the McCain connection with the Iran Contra organization US Council for World Freedom. Wednesday. He sat on the board for 6 years of a group which supported death squads that murdered, tortured and raped. Have we seen anything about it since then??? <<>>

It’s not that you’re such a flipping idiot that I find so insulting. It’s that you’re willfully an idiot – and are paid to be so.

By The Other Jack

October 10, 2008 11:45 AM | Link to this

Apparently, Andrea understands her limitations on this issue. It would be easier to go to Miami and stand on the street corner and convince the city that Castro is A-OK.

Shunti gives stat after stat. Andrea lists FOX News as the only anti-Obama biased news source out of NBC, CBS, ABC, CNN, MSNBC, PBS, Comedy Central and almost every other network on the planet, not to mention, the one stat she gives is in the New York Times, a proven wildly left leaning rag. Good job, Andrea. You know when to fold.

BTW. If Obama wins, so does FOX News. How many billions will they make by spending at least four years attacking Obama?

The most powerful thing Shaunti said was this: This media imbalance inevitably creates a massive advantage for Obama — or any Democrat. In such an environment, it is a testimony to the overwhelming conservativism of America that conservative presidents ever get elected.

This is tantamount to the propaganda techniques that have been used in the past to convert some of the most civilized and educated countries of their time into fascist states. Even with the obvious bias, the crazy policies and ignoring the fact that the country has been controlled by a Democratic Congress, both House and Senate for the two years that our economy has been driven into the ground, says some very troubling things about the level of indoctrination that so many Americans are subjected to.

Kimberly, yesterday you said that character didn’t matter, but what did matter was that our leader cares about us. So how do you know Obama cares about us? Because he said so? I thought his character was not worth defending. So how can you believe what he says?

The exact same argument was used to put Bill Clinton onto office. Character doesn’t matter, but what matters is that he cares about us. Clinton was elected because he promised the middle class Universal Health Care, a tax break for the middle class and tax increases for the more wealthy people in the country (Sound familiar?)

Clinton didn’t have a character worth defending either and within a few months, we got the largest tax increase in the history of the country and two years later, when the Republicans were able to take control of congress, any thought of Universal Health Care was far in the rear view mirror. He lied to us which is expected of anyone with no character. DUH?!?!?!

It is common knowledge that WWII got us out of the Great Depression, but the Iraq war, strangely enough, hurt our economy. Pumping 700 billion bucks back into the economy by giving people jobs hurt our country. Imagine that. But overnight, we just dumped the same amount down a hole that didn’t help anything or hire a soul, but Obama still is saying that he is going to give the middle class a tax break.

This is such an absolute and obvious lie that I am embarrassed for anyone who is still buying it. And with that tax break, he is going to invent a fair Health plan for all Americans. I just can’t help but see a proctologist snapping on that surgical glove as I read those words. Middle Class America. Bend over. It’s time. There’s not enough rich people to pay for this. Get out those check books, Joe Sixpack. You have taxes to pay.

BTW. The 700 billion dollars that we just flushed into oblivion would have paid for Universal Health Care for all Americans for the next ten years. And it was a Democratic Congress that pulled the handle. And Kimberly, you think they care about you.

But it all boils down to the power of this incredibly slanted media. It boils down to the power of the internet that is able to bombard many Americans with newsletter after newsletter after newsletter which further indoctrinates our citizens into believing what they are told and ignoring what they shouldn’t.

Our country is at a crossroads and because of this obscene effort on the half of some very dangerous people who control much of the media, I am afraid that we are going to take the wrong course.

By USinUK

October 10, 2008 11:52 AM | Link to this

So the end of July – when the Dems were holding their convention

d-oh. that was the end of August. my bad.

so, let’s see … in July, what was Obama doing??? could have been his European tour … you know, the one where 100s of 1000s of people came out to see him …

By USinUK

October 10, 2008 12:02 PM | Link to this

TOJ -

Shunti gives stat after stat.

Shaunti gives MEANINGLESS stat after MEANINGLESS stat.

again, the # of articles featured doesn’t mean that they were positive.

and what people think about the news??? that just gives their OPINION, it doesn’t mean that what they THINK is actually TRUE.

as the saying goes: opinions are like … everyone’s got one and they both stink.

By USinUK

October 10, 2008 12:25 PM | Link to this

TOJ -

And it was a Democratic Congress that pulled the handle.

Not to let the facts get in the way of your teeny-weeny tirade, but it was the President’s and the Treasury’s legislation. And the vote was 263-171 with slightly less than half of the House GOP helping it win passage. In the Senate, only 15 Republicans voted NO (out of 25 no votes).

so, to say this is a Dem bill is wrong. To say that the GOP had nothing to do with its passage is also dead wrong.

By USinUK

October 10, 2008 12:28 PM | Link to this

okay … I hated living in Connecticut … HATED IT … in fact, have managed to block a lot of that 2.25 years out of my head (especially the winters) …

but, CT has partially redeemed itself today:

Breaking News 11:39 AM ET: Connecticut State Supreme Court Overturns Ban on Same-Sex Marriage

woohoo!!! way to go you crazy nutmeggers!!!

By The Other Jack

October 10, 2008 12:45 PM | Link to this

USinUK

You area very smart person. I am floored that you would attempt to justify the accepted media bias that is steering this election.

I am attempting to dive deeper into media control than most people think about. I have asked you to go to the Goebbel’s speech site to start to understand the techniques he openly discusses about propaganda. I am not saying that democrats are NAZIs. I am saying that those same techniques that Goebbels used to convert the most educated country on the planet into NAZIs is being used here in America to slant our election process.

One of the techniques he harps on is the difference between news and entertainment. People rarely cry at news stories. People rarely laugh at news stories. What touches people is what touches their emotions and emotional news is poorly produced news.

But emotional entertainment is the very best entertainment. Comedy Central is the perfect example. To say that Comedy Central is not political, would be a pretty uninformed statement. In some polls, younger Americans go there to get their news instead of the news outlets. The news on Comedy Central is fun and funny, tapping into emotions.

Doesn’t it bother you that the only Conservative that is portrayed on this obviously popular, political network is an often unfair caricature of a Republican, while every single commentator is overtly liberally biased?

As my best client said to me: “Why do you worry about that crap. there is nothing we can do about this”. He is right. I stopped yelling at other drivers when my GF pointed out that no matter how upset I get, the other guy is never going to get any smarter or become a better driver.

So I understand, as Kimberly says, my points are moot. It is right in front of you, but you will never see it. But if i can just get you to even consider what has happened to our entertainment world and how it is so horribly used to unfairly change minds is all I can hope for.

I, like Andrea understand my limitations.

By Really?

October 10, 2008 12:46 PM | Link to this

I’ve said this for years…if the liberal media in the late 30’s and early 40’s had been so in love with the Nazi’s, we might have been able to avoid WWII altogether.

What with printing stories day after day, of course Hitler was going to win in Poland. Damn liberal media!

By The Other Jack

October 10, 2008 12:54 PM | Link to this

USinUK

to say this is a Dem bill is wrong. To say that the GOP had nothing to do with its passage is also dead wrong.

Yes and to say that the Democrats didn’t also support going to Iraq would be wrong, but I have heard you say time after time that it was the Republicans that put us into Iraq. You can’t have it both ways. The democrats are in charge, girl. Accept that. What laws are passed and what moves that our government takes is controlled by a democratically controlled Congress.

And to the Connecticut amendment. Even though a majority of Americans are against this, (I couldn’t care less, as long as gay couples have the same rights as married people) it is becoming the norm and soon there will be no opposition to a Federal Law, yet another issue that has been heavily touted by a very liberal news media and an extremely biased entertainment world. We will be accepting what the minority wants wheter we like it or not.

By Gale

October 10, 2008 1:11 PM | Link to this

I love it. because the institution of marriage carries with it a status and significance that the newly created classification of civil unions does not embody.” It is still a very long battle, though. Six states have decided on the constituionality of same-sex marriage; three for and three against. 44 states to go.

I found it odd that the state argued for the ban using the tired aguement that there was no discrimination because gays and lesbians can marry, just not the same sex, and because the rule is applied to both sexes, there is no discrimination. Yawn.

By Bruno

October 10, 2008 1:15 PM | Link to this

At the risk of playing the “blame game”, I thought some of you might enjoy this clip of Obama on YouTube from 2 years:

www.youtube.com/watch?v=MGTcSi7Rs

While there is enough blame to go around for the current credit/housing crisis, at least a few Republicans, including John McCain, tried to sound the warning bells while Barney Frank, Obama, and a host of other Democrats were whistling past the graveyard.

By Gale

October 10, 2008 1:16 PM | Link to this

TOJ, the majority does not want this war. “We will be accepting what the minority wants wheter we like it or not.” The door swings both ways. But on the issue of gay marriage, the opinion against is getting smaller every year.

By JustaJew

October 10, 2008 1:21 PM | Link to this

As far as this whole gay marriage thing is concerned, I’m still just waiting on a viable reason why it “threatens” a traditional marriage. I’ve yet to see a logical explanation as to why this would be so detrimental to one man, one woman. Could someone please help me out?

By Bruno

October 10, 2008 1:25 PM | Link to this

I lost a lot of faith in McCain during the last debate when he proposed a government buyout plan to the tune of $300,000,000,000 for people whose house is now worth less than what they paid for it. While I have some sympathy for any homeowner caught in that situation, at the same time I feel no moral obligation for my hard-earned tax dollars to go to folks who bought homes they knew they couldn’t afford, inflated appraisal values and all.

In other words, because I have chosen to live below my means, I am now being called upon to help those who live above their means. That stinks.

By Sunshine

October 10, 2008 1:29 PM | Link to this

Here is just another example of that Crazy liberal media, I guess they really shouldn’t report stories like this, right Republicans? I guess the pillow talk of our American troops to their wives SHOULD be spied on my the American government, and no one should talk about it, we are such silly liberals ::Snark::

(www.abcnews.go.com/Blotter/story?id=5998860&page=1)

A Senate panel is probing claims top secret government workers eavesdropped on communications from American service members, journalists and aid workers overseas. Brian Ross reveals what the government heard on wiretaps.

Announcing the probe, Senate intelligence committee chair Jay Rockefeller (D-WV) called the allegations, made on ABC News, “extremely disturbing.”

House intelligence committee chair Silvestre Reyes is also looking for answers from the National Security Agency (NSA) about its apparent violations of Americans’ privacy. “The NSA let us know that your story may be coming down the pipeline,” a spokeswoman for Reyes told ABC News Thursday. “We went ahead and made an inquiry and have been in contact with NSA We’re awaiting further information.”

Off of Capitol Hill, reaction was swift and sharp to the news that U.S. intelligence officials listened in to hundreds of private conversations, including pillow talk between U.S. military officers and their spouses.

“This outrageous episode is a reminder that government spying powers can be used to invade the most intimate thoughts of even the most trustworthy people,” noted Lisa Graves of the Center for National Security Studies, and a former Justice Department official.

“Today’s report is an indictment not only of the Bush administration, but of all of those political leaders, Democratic and Republican, who have been saying that the executive branch can be trusted with surveillance powers that are essentially unchecked,” charged Jameel Jaffer, director of the national security program at the American Civil Liberties Union.

“When they say trust us, we’re not listening in on Americans – this shows that they are,” said Jennifer Granick of the San Francisco-based Electronic Frontier Foundation (EFF). Her group is suing the federal government to stop warrantless eavesdropping programs and hold government officials accountable. “This should be of concern to everybody.”

I guess we really should be voting for more of these Right-wingers that tell us “we will only do good with the broad and unprecedented powers you HAVE TO GIVE US RIGHT NOW OR YOU ALL WILL DIE!” Right….

And yeah for CT’s supreme court recognizing human rights! Hope more of this country does that!

By kimberly

October 10, 2008 1:35 PM | Link to this

TOJ, you put the “less” in “pointless.” If you have to twist my words and take them out of context to make a point, you have none. I never said “character doesn’t matter.” I made the point in the context of the discussion that the character issues are moot right now because (a) we could go t-t for tat all day on who knew whom and NO ONE comes out clean in the dirty-by-association game — certainly not McCain or Palin, and (b) people are concerned with the reports of our own impending financial demise, as is to be expected.

I did indeed say that I (my choice) would vote for the smart guy (adjective sustainable with facts) who SEEMS to give a sh—. Unlike YOU, I do not claim to have a crystal ball that can read the minds and intents of every other human on the planet. McCain SEEMS like an arrogant a—hole… *to me. * Last time I checked, I was indeed allowed to have an opinion, although my vote may or may not actually count.

Perhaps it’s YOU to whom character doesn’t matter! If it did, you wouldn’t be so insistent on making every American who doesn’t agree with you 100% on everything into YOUR ENEMY. (While praising America’s real internal enemies, like the b******* who perpetrated Iran-Contra.) Based on the way you love to poke your large, angry, middle-aged finger into the chest of everyone who happens by, honest discourse does not appear to be your intent; hence the basis of my assumption, with no claim to actually knowing what demons dwell inside your head. If we are enemies, as you SEEM to desire with at least half your fellow Amerians, it’s your doing, not ours, and your issue to suck on until your head implodes. washing my hands

By Gale

October 10, 2008 1:36 PM | Link to this

In other words, because I have chosen to live below my means, I am now being called upon to help those who live above their means. That stinks.

With you 100%, Bruno.

Sunshine, Don’t you just shudder deep down when a politician says, “Trust me.”

By Bruno

October 10, 2008 1:42 PM | Link to this

Wow—the YouTube video I saw this AM has already been yanked.(?) Here’s a second link which details Obama’s involvement in the housing crisis:

mediacircus.com/2008/10/obama-sued-citibank-under-cra-to-force-it-to-make-bad-loans/

By RF

October 10, 2008 1:46 PM | Link to this

but instead to specific organizations that encouraged children to be more rebellious and to question everything, in other words to become little anarchists

Name those organizations please. I’m not trying to bait you, I just really need to know the facts. I’ve been waiting for the “smoking gun” on this issue. So far, I’ve heard plenty of talk about the Weather Underground but no real, substantive terroristic, anarchistic, or un-American connection between Obama and Ayers. Remember, btw, Annenberg was a devoted Republican and his foundation doesn’t give money willy-nilly to anyone. Everything I’ve found online is documented, transparent, approved by Annenberg, and catalogued as research for future use.

As to the current issue, media is what it is. They lean towards the leader in the polls. MSNBC is clearly leftist, and Fox is clearly right-wing. Big deal!! If McCain were in the lead and were the popular favorite over the last year, the Obama camp would be claiming predujudice and unfair attention. CNN appears to be balancing coverage somewhat depending on which show you watch. Seems simple to me. If you want conservative coverage, you watch conservative channels/shows. If you want liberal, do the same. Easy solution.

By The Other Jack

October 10, 2008 1:50 PM | Link to this

Gale

They don’t want the war now, but they sure did when it started.

Yep, when any issue is forced on the people, after years of overt propaganda, no matter how unfair the issue, the consensus will change.

I personally think this issue will sway the polls a little toward McCain. A few people realize that we are looking at a government that could not give a damn what the people want. The VAST majority of Americans wanted drilling at the end of the last session, and by God, Pelosi went home, wouldn’t allow even a word of debate on the issue.

I understand that the gay marriage bill may seem like a victory to you. I would consider it a victory if you got the rights that I so desperately wanted when I just lost a loved one. I was just the boyfriend. I had to leave the room while she was dying. That hurt.

But this isn’t about those rights. It’s about an issue that the majority of Americans agree against, but not a matter of rights, but a matter of “status and significance”. Status and significance? That’s all it takes? Just Status to make our government support a very emotional issue which most Americans are against?

This is great for you, Gale. but what if that same thin criteria is used to decide things that could hurt us all? Like flushing enough money to give us all health care for 10 years?

We should all be terrified. Our government is not ours anymore. And that also means you.

By Bruno

October 10, 2008 1:53 PM | Link to this

With you 100%, Bruno.

Thanks for the shout, Gale. For the first time in my life, I have lost complete faith in those who are “leading” us. I’ve been sounding the alarm bells on W2W for more than a year regarding the credit crisis—why did it take a near-complete collapse of the banking industry before those in power decided to take action??

The only honest, viable solution I see to the whole mess is to do what Steve Wynn, Donald Trump, and others are advocating: Instead of continuing this charade by artificially supporting the inflated house prices via a government “bailout” of individual homeowners, the banks need to simply sell the foreclosed properties for what they are worth and let us go back to square one in rebuilding the economy.

By The Other Jack

October 10, 2008 1:59 PM | Link to this

Kimberly

Unfortunately, that’s the response I expected. I did not say a single bad thing about you. i treated you with respect and understanding. I didn’t preach to you, I did plead with you.

And your answer was three paragraphs of a concentrated personal attack, an answer that completely and totally supports my assertion that many on your side of the isle has no argument, but only hysterics and emotions.

I’m not going to attack you. I just ask that you don’t engage me in a debate if you can’t emotionally handle my answers.

By Bruno

October 10, 2008 2:09 PM | Link to this

As to the current issue, media is what it is. They lean towards the leader in the polls.

RF—I have to disagree with you on this point. Back when Hillary was leading Obama in the polls, he continued to receive a disproportionate share of favorable media attention while she was raked over the coals at every turn.

By The Other Jack

October 10, 2008 2:13 PM | Link to this

RF

I am working and typing between renders. I do not have time to look up the beneficiaries that Obama choose. But I can tell you to go to William Ayers Website. I had a chance to look around it for quite a while the other day. Check out his links to the education programs he supports. I know you well enough to know that you are smart and fair. I don’t want to send you to some Newsmax website. Go to the horse’s mouth. Go to Bill Ayers.

News is not propaganda. Entertainment can be used for propaganda. It is being used at an unprecedented degree right now from a grosely left leaning Hollywood. If you can’t see that, there is nothing I can do.

I’m not worried about CNN and MSNBC. A person would need to be living in a hole to not have heard about which news channel likes who. I’m worried about comedy central and The View and The Late Show with David Letterman and every morals play that has come out of Hollywood for the last 40 years. Why aren’t you?

(And please, spare me the six or seven examples from over the past 40 years of a conservative leaning show, if you can think of even that many)

By Gale

October 10, 2008 2:15 PM | Link to this

The thing is, TOJ, are “most” Americans against this? Are you so sure? But even so, it is a matter of equal status under the law. If you get to vote on whether I marry, I want the right to vote on whether you marry.

And since you brought it up… I don’t want to take you back to a hurtful moment, but I have a question. YOur GF was not a citizen, if I remember correctly. Was there some reason you were restrained from marriage?

Bruno, sell the foreclosed properties for what they are worth I tend to agree. My partner says they should renegotiate those loans. I tend to disagree with her. But the goal for both positions is to get someone paying for those properties. While the properties are sitting in default, there is no money moving. We need the money to flow for the mess to resolve itself.

By Sunshine

October 10, 2008 2:18 PM | Link to this

TOJ—Ok, thanks for the laugh, this is the best line of the day:

“We will be accepting what the minority wants wheter we like it or not.” you know kinda like, hmmmm, ending slavery, or giving women the right to work, or setting child labor laws or you know, civil rights. I guess according to you unless we all agree its the right thing to do we shouldn’t do it, well then God help us all!

By RF

October 10, 2008 2:19 PM | Link to this

TOJ- You’re sounding paranoid again. There are issues out there that challenge us. Voters- people just like you and me and all the rest, have a voice. People have actually been exercising their right to representation and calling senators and congressmen in record numbers of late. If the reps do it right, great. If they do it wrong, we get together and vote them out. There aren’t quick solutions, but we still have a vote and a right to demand the representation we need. Conservatives want us to be scared and to blindly trust their notions without asking questions or challenging their mistakes. I’m much more afraid of that than I am trying something new. If it doesn’t work, we have the right in the next election to change it. Simple as that.

What so many fear is change and the idea that ideas other than those fed to us by Big Brother Republican could actually work. There are liberal plans out there that succeed. We’re in a financial slump and we’ve been there before. The two-party system has worked in every decade to get us out of recessions, and they will again. It took both parties to cause this mess- let’s quit pointing fingers and call upon our representatives to fix the problem.

As to gay rights, the majority sentiment will eventually rule. What may surprise you is that the moral tide may turn as it eventually does when a group demands what it deserves. African-Americans got some rights and the country hasn’t fallen apart yet. You know exactly how it feels to be excluded. Don’t let that hurt consume you, but don’t forget it either. Imagine spending decades with a person and having that happen. No way that could be called fair even if current majority opinion still moves against it.

By kimberly

October 10, 2008 2:24 PM | Link to this

Gee whillickers and jumpin jeehosephats, once again I’M SO SORRY! Saying someone said something she didn’t say is “respect and understanding?” Awwww, how sweeeet!! Thanks for clearing that up for me! My apologies for misreading your impeccably purest of intents. Guess I should go to “debate school” to learn to take someone else’s words out of context with all the panache that you do, “my friend.” Got a lot of catching up to do. You’re the BEST!

BTW, since character and morals matter so much, how do you feel about McCain calling his wife the C-word in public? I mean, that’s not a character issue, is it? Not sure how I’m supposed to feel about that and Fox News hasn’t mentioned it lately…

By Sunshine

October 10, 2008 2:27 PM | Link to this

USinUK

On a side note I really wish I could share (since it is snack day) I am enjoying the most delicious home made key lime cream pot (its kinda like key lime pie but you put it in ramekins with the gram crackers on top) Made it myself last night, fresh squeezed key limes and all! Store bought key lime pie is always too sweet if you have ever had the real thing from FL. This one is making me pucker, just like it should! Here’s one for you!

&&& ( )

By RF

October 10, 2008 2:28 PM | Link to this

I’m worried about comedy central and The View and The Late Show with David Letterman and every morals play that has come out of Hollywood for the last 40 years. Why aren’t you?

I can tell you why they don’t bother me. If folks are dumb enough to be swayed by any of those shows as “authorities” (and I’m sure some people do believe them), then so be it. There are plenty of narrow-minded easily duped people in every political party. I’ve seen as many idiots on the religious channels that get as much air time as Comedy Central. I honestly think many more people than you might like to realize form opinions based more on their upbringing and what their friends think than on what they hear on The View or one of the ridiculous Comedy Central shows (which aren’t even funny if you ask me).

I’ll check Ayers’ site. I gotta tell you though, the money from Annenberg wasn’t spent on any shifty organizations. Ayers may support all kinds of things, but he didn’t have say-so about the foundation money. In fact, he was only on the startup board. He wasn’t on the final guiding board of the Chicago organization once the Annenberg funded projects began.

By Just Sayin'

October 10, 2008 2:29 PM | Link to this

— only 75 days til Christmas.

Happy Holidays!

By USinUK

October 10, 2008 2:29 PM | Link to this

TOJ -

in no particular order …

Yes and to say that the Democrats didn’t also support going to Iraq would be wrong, but I have heard you say time after time that it was the Republicans that put us into Iraq.

bollocks. I have never said that. Dems did support going to Iraq - based on the lies that were fed to us by this administration’s decision to cherry-pick what intel they would give credence to and what they would (conveniently) ignore.

and, no. Congress does NOT have the same access to intel that the WH has.

I am not saying that democrats are NAZIs. I am saying that those same techniques that Goebbels used to convert the most educated country on the planet into NAZIs is being used here in America to slant our election process.

shorter TOJ: “you’re not nazis, but you act like them”

please. just because you don’t like it doesn’t mean it’s slanted. I remember the president calling “press conferences” every week when he was running for reelection, then standing before the cameras and campaigning. funny how the GOP wasn’t complaining about “bias” then when the media gave him free air time.

In some polls, younger Americans go there to get their news instead of the news outlets. The news on Comedy Central is fun and funny, tapping into emotions.

and here is where your limited understanding of history shines through. this is a free-market media. if you CHOOSE to get your news from FOX, Comedy Central, MSNBC, Keith O, Bill O or Black Helicopters Weekly, that is YOUR CHOICE. The Nazis advocated propaganda via government-run media.

Doesn’t it bother you that the only Conservative that is portrayed on this obviously popular, political network is an often unfair caricature of a Republican

well, since I’m not a frat boy, I don’t sit around and watch CC all day. I catch DS when I can, but that’s the only programming I’ve ever seen. The handful of times I’ve seen South Park, they’ve skewered libs just as much as cons.

and, again - IT’S ENTERTAINMENT. you want to complain about entertainment for what it is, then fine. but to hold it to journalistic standards is just asinine.

By Bruno

October 10, 2008 2:32 PM | Link to this

The thing is, TOJ, are “most” Americans against this? Are you so sure? But even so, it is a matter of equal status under the law. If you get to vote on whether I marry, I want the right to vote on whether you marry.

Gale—My understanding is that a large majority of Americans (including myself) support the right of same-sex couples to enjoy the same legal benefits of hetero couples, but remain uncomfortable with using the same word, “marriage”, to describe the dissimilar unions. You might consider that to be a case of “splitting hairs”, but I don’t. It strikes directly at the heart of what is considered “normal”.

By USinUK

October 10, 2008 2:36 PM | Link to this

Brunoooooooooooooooo -

the primary person who should be blamed in this mess is Alan mother-effing Greenspan.

because, contrary to popular opinion, the house bubble - while bad - is not the be-all and end-all of the problem. As I and Mara have said in the past - it’s the derivatives that should have been regulated (and the mortgage lenders - all of which is the Fed’s purview)

and what did we get??? years of Greenspan’s “frothiness” BS. We got him saying that “the market will regulate itself”. Heck, when Warren Buffet calls derivatives a nightmare waiting to happen - when even TPJ’s favorite bogeyman, George Soros, says he wouldn’t touch them with a bargepole, why were they left to flourish unmonitored???

for a great article, check out today’s NYT write-up called “The Reckoning” - it gives a great history of derivatives, how they work and AG’s role in the whole debacle.

(and for those of you who care, people who hold Lehman derivatives are going to be paid about $0.10 on the dollar - so, expect the market swirly to continue)

By Bruno

October 10, 2008 2:39 PM | Link to this

Also—a correction from earlier this week: I thought the current budget for the CDC was around $6 Billion, when it is actually $8.8 Billion. Under Clinton, the CDC budget was around $2.8 Billion. In other words, all you lovers of the CDC here on W2W need to tip your caps to Bush for tripling their budget. I won’t hold my breath waiting for any of you to give credit where credit is due.

Some of you should also consider giving Bush credit for doing more in Africa to combat both malaria and AIDS than any previous US Prez, including Clinton. Again, I won’t hold my breath waiting….

By USinUK

October 10, 2008 2:40 PM | Link to this

Sunshine -

We will be accepting what the minority wants wheter we like it or not.” you know kinda like, hmmmm, ending slavery, or giving women the right to work, or setting child labor laws or you know, civil rights. I guess according to you unless we all agree its the right thing to do we shouldn’t do it, well then God help us all!

man! you are so my hero today!!! so much so, I think that even the Foo Fighters would want me to play their song in your honor!!

By USinUK

October 10, 2008 2:46 PM | Link to this

TOJ -

• A large majority of Americans (including myself) support the right of same-sex couples to enjoy the same legal benefits of hetero couples, but remain uncomfortable with using the same word, “marriage”, to describe the dissimilar unions. You might consider that to be a case of “splitting hairs”, but I don’t. It strikes directly at the heart of what is considered “normal”.*

do yourself a favor and read Loving v. Virginia …

a lot of people were against miscegenation, too - felt it wasn’t norma. that it went against the laws of nature.

do you really want to play for the same team???

me, I want Gale and her partner to have the same rights Mr. USinUK and I do - why??? because, as the cons have been telling us for years, marriage leads to healther communities, stronger partnerships and better family units.

GOOOOOOOOOOOOOO CONNECTICUT!!!

By Sunshine

October 10, 2008 2:47 PM | Link to this

Come on tell me again how this financial deregulation that lead to the economic ruin is the democrats fault, tell me how its all Hairy Reeds fault, or you could read the facts, you know, it is public info:

In 1999, John McCain voted for passage of the Senate version of a bill that would eliminate current barriers erected by the 1933 Glass-Steagall Act and other laws that impede affiliations between banking, securities, insurance and other firms. The bill also would exempt small, non-urban banks from the 1977 Community Reinvestment Act (CRA), revise the Federal Home Loan Bank system and require that owners of automated teller machines (ATMs) provide notice on the ATM and on-screen of any charges imposed for the use of the terminal.

The bill passed 54-44. [S. 900, Vote #105, 5/6/99]

Voted Yes

McCain (R-AZ) Gramm (R-TX) Santorum (R-PA) Specter (R-PA) Kyl (R-AZ) Craig (R-ID) Hutchinson (R-AR) Lott (R-MS) Cochran (R-MS) Lugar (R-IN) Helms (R-NC) Sessions (R-AL) Thurmond (R-SC) Hutchison (R-TX) Bennett (R-UT) Hollings (D-SC)

Voted No

Biden (D-DE) Reid (D-NV) Boxer (D-CA) Feinstein (D-CA) Edwards (D-NC) Kennedy (D-MA) Feingold (D-WI) Breaux (D-LA) Landrieu (D-LA) Kerry (D-MA) Lieberman (D-CT) Moynihan (D-NY) Schumer (D-NY)

By Bruno

October 10, 2008 2:48 PM | Link to this

On a side note I really wish I could share (since it is snack day) I am enjoying the most delicious home made key lime cream pot (its kinda like key lime pie but you put it in ramekins with the gram crackers on top) Made it myself last night, fresh squeezed key limes and all! Store bought key lime pie is always too sweet if you have ever had the real thing from FL. This one is making me pucker, just like it should! Here’s one for you!

Watch that figure, Sunshine! ; > }

By The Other Jack

October 10, 2008 2:50 PM | Link to this

Kimberly,

You may notice that I don’t go out of my way to defend stupid things Republicans do. if i misrepresent what you said, tell me that. Why does it have to be this teeth gritting, turning the blade, death to you and your family answer?

I am very passionate about what i see the media is doing to my country. All I know about you is what I see on here. I don’t know you, and you don’t know me. i’m really trying to be better at keeping this from going down to the screaming matches that it once was, but those matches were never about issues, they were about personalities.

The problem with your dismissal of the character issue by saying that nobody is perfect is that the books cannot be closed on past actions. Yes, lets look at and discuss the issues about Rev. Wright, Bill Ayers, the dirty money from Fanny Mae and Freddie Mac. And let’s discuss the Alaskan Nutcase anti American Party and Todd Palen and let’s discuss Iran / Contra, but don’t call someone names and run away.

I have defended Iran/Contra and have been attacked for doing it. Sunshine tried to dispute what I was saying by posting more and more details, all of which supported my argument, but no one even attempted to tell me why it was so wrong. We were fighting communists in Central America and supporting efforts to subvert the Islamic Crazies that are now threatening the world in Iran. Please explain why that was wrong.

The rebels were some pretty rough characters, but the Communist Regime was committing genocide. And needless to say, if we could have subverted the current Iranian government, wouldn’t that be a good thing?

As far as the “Smart Guy”. The smart guy is smart enough to become the leader of the free world. Whether he uses that intelligence to benefit you or me or him is totally up for grabs. I’m thinking a REALLY smart guy will use his intelligence to help him first, his political aspirations second. his inner circle third and pages and pages and pages later, he might get to you. Me? I’m not on the list.

By Gale

October 10, 2008 2:51 PM | Link to this

Bruno, Yes, and I don’t want to dwell on gay marriage because that isn’t the topic and it won’t go anywhere anyway. The real problem is federal recognition anyway.

By Bruno

October 10, 2008 2:53 PM | Link to this

because, contrary to popular opinion, the house bubble - while bad - is not the be-all and end-all of the problem. As I and Mara have said in the past - it’s the derivatives that should have been regulated (and the mortgage lenders - all of which is the Fed’s purview)

I can’t disagree with you regarding the role that the “creative repackaging” of mortgages played in the crisis, but underneath it all, the root problem remains that millions of unqualified homebuyers were allowed to purchase overpriced homes which they couldn’t pay for. If people were paying off their mortgages on time, there would be no crisis.

By Gandalf, the Grey

October 10, 2008 2:55 PM | Link to this

Kimberly, PLEASE STFU! You (Dumbass) slut!

By USinUK

October 10, 2008 2:56 PM | Link to this

Sunshine -

taunting Brunooooooooooo and me with key lime cream pots is just … mean. mean. mean. MEAN!!!

Brunoooooooooooo -

the Loving v. Virginia comment should have been directed to you, not TOJ

a lot of people were against interacial marriages because they felt it wasn’t normal - doesn’t mean they were right.

By Mara

October 10, 2008 3:04 PM | Link to this

Bruno - …but remain uncomfortable with using the same word, “marriage”, to describe the dissimilar unions

how are the relationships “dissimilar”? I can’t see how Adam and Steve’s union would be any different from any other marriage.

TOJ - speaking of Nazi-ism…do you have any idea where “enhanced interrogation techniques” came from? Yup. Verbatim from the Gestapo handbook. Go ahead…google it. “Enhanced interrogation techniques” or even the original German “Verschärfte Vernehmung”.

It’s not terribly smart to toss out accusations of Nazi-ism when it’s your party that embraces their odious methods.

By Sunshine

October 10, 2008 3:05 PM | Link to this

Bruno

I don’t mean this as a personal attack, I usually find your positions fair, and although they usually differ from mine, level headed, that being said:

Gale—My understanding is that a large majority of Americans (including myself) support the right of same-sex couples to enjoy the same legal benefits of hetero couples, but remain uncomfortable with using the same word, “marriage”

At one point in our history a large portion of the population thought that “separate but equal” was appropriate treatment for people of color. They saw nothing wrong with segregating everything from restrooms and water fountains to schools and hotels. I thought we, as a country, had moved away from that notion.

By Bruno

October 10, 2008 3:07 PM | Link to this

a lot of people were against miscegenation, too - felt it wasn’t norma. that it went against the laws of nature. do you really want to play for the same team???

USinUK—I don’t think that recognizing that heterosexual and homosexual unions are biologically different qualifies me as some kind of racist.

me, I want Gale and her partner to have the same rights Mr. USinUK and I do - why??? because, as the cons have been telling us for years, marriage leads to healther communities, stronger partnerships and better family units.

If you reread my comment, I am in full support of granting the same legal rights to gay couples as are afforded to hetero couples. Did you read me differently?

Bruno, Yes, and I don’t want to dwell on gay marriage because that isn’t the topic and it won’t go anywhere anyway. The real problem is federal recognition anyway.

Gale, acceptance of gay couples has moved forward light-years since I was a kid. In my community, it wasn’t safe to announce that you were gay.

We will be accepting what the minority wants wheter we like it or not.” you know kinda like, hmmmm, ending slavery,

Quick side note, Sunshine: Up in the North, a majority of people wiched to end slavery. It was all of you Southerner’s relatives that wanted to continue the practice. Rednecks. ; > } (just kidding you)

By The Other Jack

October 10, 2008 3:07 PM | Link to this

USinUk

I have GOT to get to work, but I’m going to try this. And if I don’t talk to you anymore, have a good weekend.

OK. Have you ever driven a volkswagon? You must be a NAZI. How about driven on an Interstate highway. You NAZI, you. Those are both examples of NAZI thinking that turned out to be the accepted standard for highway engineering.

Goebbels is the father of modern propaganda. The power of his teachings is demonstrated when you see the fact that by using those powers, he was able to convert an educated and civilized country into NAZIs. That doesn’t mean that the only thing that can result from his teachings is a goose stepping bunch of lunies.

The techniques are about messaging. You said that you were a journalism major. You HAD to study this stuff. The message can change, but the techniques that Goebbels used have been proven over and over again.

I will agree about South Park. They are only fair, and certainly not any sort of counter to the other 23 hours a day of overt left-speak.

I would agree about your issue about it being an issue of choice except that there is no choice. It is one right leaning news source or all the rest. And that means absolutely NO entertainment choices that overtly present a Republican slant in entertainment programming.

Enjoy youir weekend. UsinnerU

By USinUK

October 10, 2008 3:10 PM | Link to this

Mara -

well done!

GtG -

did you see my reply to your barbed-wire story?? the guy wasn’t using it at his house, he was using it at an allotment. If you don’t have them where you live, allotments are large tracts (3-4 acres) that are divvied up into plots for people to lease, allowing them to plant whatever they want. In other words, this is a very public area.

while I feel bad for the guy that he’s had his tools stolen, this is a family space - kids run around while their parents are doing their gardening - it really isn’t the place for 3’ of barbed wire.

By Bruno

October 10, 2008 3:11 PM | Link to this

how are the relationships “dissimilar”?

LMAO—I’d have to show you that in person, Mara. ; > }

By The Other Jack

October 10, 2008 3:13 PM | Link to this

Mara

No one is charging anyone with NAZIsm. Read my post to USinUK.

Jeeze, why is this so hard?

I don’t ever want to discuss cars with you because i like volkswagons. Does that make me a NAZI?

I drive on the interstate. They are a direct result of the autobon. Hitler’s idea. I admit it. I like driving on the interstate. I even like taking the exits really fast.

I’m so ashamed.

By Sunshine

October 10, 2008 3:18 PM | Link to this

Watch that figure, Sunshine! ; > }

Ok, Bruno, I don’t know if I got on your bad side today or what, but you do know its dangerous to speak to a pregnant woman about her weight don’t you???? That is unless you are complimenting it while bringing her chocolate and ice cream? :-) I will let it go today though, cause I really do like you!

I am doing well with my weight for the pregnancy though, (Since YOU brought it up!) it is interesting that providing for someone else is the best incentive to cut out all the junk, preservatives and unhealthy stuff I might let myself eat! Best diet ever!

By USinUK

October 10, 2008 3:18 PM | Link to this

Brunoooooooo -

the root problem remains that millions of unqualified homebuyers were allowed to purchase overpriced homes which they couldn’t pay for. If people were paying off their mortgages on time, there would be no crisis.

arggggggggghhhhhhhhhhhh!!!

no, the root of the problem isn’t the unqualified homebuyers. there were far more QUALIFIED people who bought with the intention of flipping than there were of sub-prime. In fact, sub-prime mortgages were a very small %%% of all mortgages (have the data at work, not home, or I would cite).

I’m sorry but I’m so sick and frickin tired of people blaming the poor for this mess. The fault does not lie entirely on their shoulders - it was the greed of the banks who created god-awful mortgage products that jacked up the mortgage afte 2 years, who came up with the idea of not needing to verify your work/income, who bacame riskier and riskier with their loans because they knew they could sell the risk on.

it was the fault of S&P, Moody’s and Fitch for being blase about their AAA ratings.

it was the fault of Alan mother-effing Greenspan for encouraging home-buyers to take out ARMs when interest rates were 1% (I mean, criminey, where else were rates going to go but up???). it was also his fault for fighting derivative regulation tooth and nail since the 1990s.

there is PLENTY of fault to go around - this isn’t just the folks who bought what they couldn’t afford.

By Bruno

October 10, 2008 3:18 PM | Link to this

Gandalf—Do me a favor and stop the undeserved hatred toward kimberly. She’s done nothing against you.

By JW

October 10, 2008 3:22 PM | Link to this

I find it funny that we can look to the past at Clinton and list his worngs, look to the future and see what Obama’s worngs will be, but we somehow ignore what has transpired for the past eight years under “W”.

If this so-called media bias were true AND effective, Obama would not even be running, it would be Kerrys second term. Also, does media bias include the likes of Rush, Sean, Boortz, Fox, et al? Considering the declining viewer ship at the network level, They may be the MSM.

By Mara

October 10, 2008 3:23 PM | Link to this

TOJ on Iran/Contra - “but no one even attempted to tell me why it was so wrong”

actually someone did. Don’t feel like trawling through the posts, but whomever it was pointed out that it was wrong because it was illegal. And if I remember correctly, they even listed some of the folks went to jail for it.

Naturally, if you feel the government shouldn’t have to abide by the law if their intentions are pure, it’s no big deal for you. But I don’t see how you can defend the program if you truly believe that we are a nation of laws, based on the Rule-of-Law.

By USinUK

October 10, 2008 3:31 PM | Link to this

TOJ -

Look up Edward Bernays - the father of public relations - he said:

“”If we understand the mechanism and motives of the group mind, is it not possible to control and regiment the masses according to our will without their knowing about it? The recent practice of propaganda has proved that it is possible, at least up to a certain point and within certain limits.”

what Goebbels did / espoused is no different than the US had been doing for decades

btw- Bernays worked for the US doing amd actually engineered the effort to overthrow the Guatamalan gov’t on behald of a fruit company.

lastly - you work in media - you know the power of words. who do you honestly think is going to be receptive to your ideas when you compare them to Nazis???

think about it.

By Mara

October 10, 2008 3:34 PM | Link to this

TOJ - hey! They honey-bunny is Buggy too! He’s been puttering around with a Type II for almost three years. (sigh) One of these days he’ll finish it up :^)

Bruno - LOL! Naughty, naughty!!

gotta go folks. USinUK, RF, Gale, Sunshine, Bruno, TOJ…all y’all have a great weekend.

By Bruno

October 10, 2008 3:36 PM | Link to this

you do know its dangerous to speak to a pregnant woman about her weight don’t you????

That’s why I’m hiding behind the anonymity of my keyboard!!! (Hoepfully you noted the smiley face after my comment)

no, the root of the problem isn’t the unqualified homebuyers. there were far more QUALIFIED people who bought with the intention of flipping than there were of sub-prime. In fact, sub-prime mortgages were a very small %%% of all mortgages (have the data at work, not home, or I would cite).

USinUK—You’re putting words in my mouth again. The “house-flippers” are a large part of the group that I’m castigating. The fact that they planned to hold the properties for a short time and sell them for a profit simply makes them greedy unqualified buyers. An unqualified buyer includes anyone who bought a house they couldn’t afford. End of story.

I’m sorry but I’m so sick and frickin tired of people blaming the poor for this mess. The fault does not lie entirely on their shoulders - it was the greed of the banks who created god-awful mortgage products that jacked up the mortgage afte 2 years, who came up with the idea of not needing to verify your work/income, who bacame riskier and riskier with their loans because they knew they could sell the risk on.

Sorry, hon, I still hold the ones signing their name on the dotted line responsible for their own decisions. Right now, for example, I have been carrying a balance forward on my credit card. Whose fault is that?? The credit card company’s?? Heck no, it’s my fault and no one else’s.

By USinUK

October 10, 2008 3:39 PM | Link to this

TOJ -

TOJ on Iran/Contra - “but no one even attempted to tell me why it was so wrong” (thanks for the heads-up. Mara … I missed this)

since you evidently missed my post from earlier this afternoon, here ya go:

I am very proud of everything that happened. Reagan was trying to establish closer relations with Iran, was actually causing Iran and Israel to be working together and was doing a very smart thing to stimulate anti-Islamic factions in Iran, the very same factions that now run that country.

Oh my effing god. That beggars belief.

You actually believe that subverting the Constitution is a good thing?? You actually believe that Reagan wanted closer ties with Iran??? After they held American hostages for 444 days??? You actually believe that he was trying to “stimulate anti-Islamic factions in Iran, the very same factions that are now running that country” – they were running the country THEN. Ayatollah Khomeni ran the country from 1979 until his death 10 years later. Both the US and the (then) USSR supplied arms to BOTH Iran (the US covertly) and Iraq (overtly) to keep the Islamist revolution contained from spreading into other oil-producing nations.

As for Israel/Iran relations – considering Iran was calling for the eradication of Israel even then, relations were … shall we say … strained? Israel sold them guns for their war with Iraq only to guarantee the release of some 30,000 Jews who were living in Iran at the time.

As for the Contras … they weren’t “fighting communism” – and they sure as HE!! weren’t the “the moral equivalent of our Founding Fathers” (as Uncle Ronnie called them). They were killing teachers, health care workers, nuns and innocent civilians. They were raping women and children. They were brutalizing villages. From Wiki: The Catholic Institute for International Relations summarized contra operating procedures in their 1987 human rights report: “The record of the contras in the field, as opposed to their official professions of democratic faith, is one of consistent and bloody abuse of human rights, of murder, torture, mutilation, rape, arson, destruction and kidnapping.”

There was nothing honorable about our support for the Contras, just as there was nothing honorable about our overthrow of Allende and installation of Augusto Pinochet. Our blind fear of communism led to the US propping up some of the most despotic leaders of the last century.

By Sunshine

October 10, 2008 3:41 PM | Link to this

USinUK—Please Testify! I’m sorry but I’m so sick and frickin tired of people blaming the poor for this mess. The fault does not lie entirely on their shoulders

This is what I don’t get—Have you ever asked to borrow money from someone? You don’t go in put a gun to their head and say give me $200, 300, 400 thousand dollars, no that is a robbery not a loan. The people going in to buy homes didn’t do it packing pistols! If you are an average normal citizen and you think “hmmm, rates are low, lets get the wife and go down to the local bank and see if it would be a good time to buy, and lets find out based on the income we make what THE BANK says is the amount we QUALIFY for.” Mr. Bank loan officer says “Guess what Mr. Jones you and your family can afford to buy a house for X # of dollars” you think great, this is the bank, they are loaning me the money, we have been pre-qualified, had our credit checked, they designed the loan type and gave us the option of fixed or adjustable rate, we have gone through underwriting and the loan has been checked by the closer and the funder, well I guess if they are sure this is a good investment, then it is! “Lets go buy that house you want honey!” WHERE in this equation is this “Joe Six-packs” fault? (god I hate that term, and only use it because I hear mostly the Republicans faulting the public for the foreclosure crisis) Please explain to me why it should be the responsibility of the person asking for a loan to determine the terms, amount and collateral that is acceptable to the BANK? That is the BANK’s job!

By Bruno

October 10, 2008 3:43 PM | Link to this

but we somehow ignore what has transpired for the past eight years under “W”.

JW—What rock have you been living under for the past 8 years?? The Democrats started howling about Bush even before he took office in 2001, and have never once given him credit for the good he has done. Take your blinders off. It is because of this unwillingness to give Bush any credit whatsoever that many conservatives like myself have a hard time respecting the intelletual honesty of those on the Left.

P.S. Earlier today I challenged the Libs to give Bush credit for tripling the CDC budget as well as doing more to combat malaria and AIDS in Africa than any previous Prez. I’m still waiting for a reply—the silence is deafening.

By USinUK

October 10, 2008 3:46 PM | Link to this

sunshine -

I am doing well with my weight for the pregnancy though, (Since YOU brought it up!) it is interesting that providing for someone else is the best incentive to cut out all the junk, preservatives and unhealthy stuff I might let myself eat! Best diet ever!

you just go!!! all my friends had the hardest time kicking caffeine (especially in the first trimester, when all you want to do is slip into a coma, as it is)

keep up the good work!!! :-) (just don’t play the kid “Lord of the Dance” soundtrack or you’ll be up all night)

By Sunshine

October 10, 2008 3:48 PM | Link to this

Bruno— you do know its dangerous to speak to a pregnant woman about her weight don’t you????

That’s why I’m hiding behind the anonymity of my keyboard!!! (Hopefully you noted the smiley face after my comment) I did, and I hope you noticed mine! Now, where is my chocolate and ice cream????? :-D

By The Other Jack

October 10, 2008 3:53 PM | Link to this

Mara

It was illegal because of a political feud. We turned our backs on people that had been laying down their lives for our cause. We turned our backs on a very effective method of gaining a good relationship with the most dangerous country in the world today.

Yes, some very decorated and honorable men thought it was worth going to jail over. The Democrats did a disgraceful thing and like so many things they have done, we are paying for it every day that Iran gets closer to having a nuclear bomb.

I was a politically active Republican then and I watched a media with a complete and total domination of the American people demonize our noble efforts that was working and take the side of a political party that would have given Russia Hawaii if it would have brought down Ronald Reagan.

Daniel Ortega is still the president of Nicaragua. He is good buddies with some really bad people and he is still the leader of the fascist, murdering party that we were fighting. So how did that Iran / Contra deal turn out for America, Mara?

Please forgive me for not being ashamed for taking the side against a hysterical and hate filled Democratic Congress. Look at the results and tell me who was right.

By JokesOn

October 10, 2008 3:53 PM | Link to this

P.S. Earlier today I challenged the Libs to give Bush credit for tripling the CDC budget as well as doing more to combat malaria and AIDS in Africa than any previous Prez. I’m still waiting for a reply—the silence is deafening.

I remember the first time you asked about the malaria funding many months ago and everyone did acknowledge this. It just pales in comparison to all the wrong he did. And, it is not as though his aids/malaria campaigns were without flaw - he is still reluctant to promote condoms there.

By Gale

October 10, 2008 3:58 PM | Link to this

Whoa, Sunshine! Joe sixpack should just accept the bank’s word that he can afford to pay more than half his income for a home payment? I’d say that is very much his responsibility and NOT the bank’s. Joe is the one responsible for the agrrements Joe signs.

By Sunshine

October 10, 2008 3:59 PM | Link to this

Bruno:

The Democrats started howling about Bush even before he took office in 2001—Yes, we were, because he didn’t win the election.

Earlier today I challenged the Libs to give Bush credit for tripling the CDC budget as well as doing more to combat malaria and AIDS in Africa than any previous Prez.—It is hard to praise some one who (Loudly) claims to be a fiscal conservative who then triples the budget of government organizations. It is also had to praise someone who has been in Africa, the place in the world with the highest concentration of AIDS cases in the world, funding abstinence only education programs there.

There is a tipping point where the bad grossly out ways the good, and the good doesn’t really matter any more. My favorite illustration is this:

You don’t get to brag about your delicious dessert, when every one at your dinner party went home with food poisoning!

By USinUK

October 10, 2008 3:59 PM | Link to this

Bruno -

USinUK—You’re putting words in my mouth again. The “house-flippers” are a large part of the group that I’m castigating. The fact that they planned to hold the properties for a short time and sell them for a profit simply makes them greedy unqualified buyers. An unqualified buyer includes anyone who bought a house they couldn’t afford. End of story.

if you were also including house-flippers in there, then I apologize - most people I have read have been blaming the sub-primers on the melt-down.

I still hold the ones signing their name on the dotted line responsible for their own decisions

and where there wasn’t fraud, I agree. however, there was also a SIGNIFICANT amount of flim-flammery going on by the lenders in the products they created where people didn’t realize the full extent of how they might be able to afford their mortgages now, but in 2 or 3 years, they could get wallopped. especially when the bank is enticing them saying “property never goes down - when your rate goes up, just refi for the new valuation and you’ll be fine!”

By RF

October 10, 2008 4:10 PM | Link to this

At one point in our history a large portion of the population thought that “separate but equal” was appropriate treatment for people of color. They saw nothing wrong with segregating everything from restrooms and water fountains to schools and hotels. I thought we, as a country, had moved away from that notion

Just a different group to be “afraid” of and point fingers at and blame for every ill in society. Unfortunately, it’s been around since the Puritans landed and began multiplying. Conservatives still want to blame someone and make us afraid. That keeps us weak and willing, much like we’ve been in every conservative dominated period. Hiding behind God and “morality” and so-called truth can help you veil a lot of hatred, bigotry, and fear of freedom. Just like the Puritans, many serious conservatives just can’t get past their own fear that people might think for themselves, love whoever they want, and treat everyone equally and the country still be able to survive.

By Sunshine

October 10, 2008 4:11 PM | Link to this

Gale—

Whoa, Sunshine! Joe sixpack should just accept the bank’s word that he can afford to pay more than half his income for a home payment? I’d say that is very much his responsibility and NOT the bank’s. Joe is the one responsible for the agrrements Joe signs.

There is responsibility on the person who takes out a loan. You are right but there is a greater responsibility on the bank.

If I loan you my money, and you don’t pay me back, it was a bad decision on my part, I gave you the money, I didn’t HAVE TO! The banks lowered the standards under which they were willing to loan. If you go in and apply for a credit card, or a car loan, and the lender says no, sorry, you don’t qualify, you walk away. It’s their money you can’t demand it.

By The Other Jack

October 10, 2008 4:15 PM | Link to this

USinUK

I agree about Iran. Reagan wanted to do everything he could to overthrow the crazies. Read, girl. He wasn’t dealing with the Ayatollah. He was dealing with the people that wanted to overthrow the Ayatollah. That’s why this would never fly nowadays. Back then, there was no internet and no FOX News so what the media decided was what America got and they got that these effective programs were not as important as the Democrat’s tantrums against Ronald Reagan.

Yes, we supported some dirty people in Central and South America, but in this case, look at what history tells us. Nicaragua is still our enemy. Ortega has slaughtered thousands. The same people that we were trying to overthrow in Iran are now threatening the world with nuclear destruction.

How’d that Iran / Contra thing work out?

By RF

October 10, 2008 4:18 PM | Link to this

USinUK- the biggest problem with the “subprime” mortgages was indeed the assumption that property values would continue to go up. ARMs and interest-only loans were still available, even after the bubble burst. The lenders only saw the bottom-line of immediate profit and ignored the potential problem looming down the road. Tragically, many homebuyers only looked at what the lender told them they could afford, and only after they were in love with a house and ready to move did anyone tell them the full conditions of their loans. The lenders just expanded on the ruse used by car salesmen for the longest time. You’ll agree to anything to get the car or the house after you’ve been taken in by the appeal. Countrywide tried like crazy to get me to take out all my equity when I refinanced. They made it sound wonderful and I realized then how many people could easily be taken in by the sales pitch they had. It took me quite a few minutes to get the person I dealt with to understand I just wanted a regular old plain refi to lower interest.

By Sunshine

October 10, 2008 4:19 PM | Link to this

TOJ— I was a politically active Republican then and I watched a media