AJC.com > Opinion > Woman to Woman > Archives > 2008 > August > 22 > Entry
Which party runs the most vicious presidential campaigns?
Andrea Cornell Sarvady, a left-leaning columnist, writes the commentary this week and Shaunti Feldhahn, a right-leaning columnist, responds.
Commentary
Though this summer has been dominated by legendary swimmers and gymnasts, there’s another “sport” looking at lifetime achievement gold: the dirty political trick.
Judges, who makes the Dream Team?
Karl Rove leaps to mind, followed quickly by the late Lee Atwater, Newt Gingrich and a host of other Republican politicos. Even now, in a year when the Democratic campaign seems poised to stick the landing, they still lag behind when it comes to offering up strong competition in the Take-No-Prisoners Olympics.
“The job is to win,” former GOP operative Allen Raymond recently told the Washington Post. Raymond isn’t as famous as the rest of the championship team, only the most forthcoming, perhaps because he actually did prison time for his Republican National Committee smear campaigns. “…You have an obligation to do the best job you can to get the outcome your clients want, which is to win.”
This all-important obligation propels self-proclaimed proponents of God and country to behave in a consistently immoral and unpatriotic manner. The patently false “Obama is a Muslim With terrorist ties” campaign follows quite a greatest-hits series: Atwater’s 1988 “Willie Horton” ad that put Michael Dukakis in cahoots with a murderer, the 2004 “Swift Boat” ad that turned John Kerry’s Vietnam bravery into something traitorous. Saving the worst for last: the Bush team’s hideous 2000 South Carolina “poll” that encouraged voters to assume McCain’s adopted daughter from Bangladesh was an “illegitimate black child.” Republican strategists go after their own with such vengeance it makes the Hillary Clinton / Barack Obama sniping look like a schoolyard spat.
Democrats are not above dirty tactics and both major parties have self-serving windbags on television and writers penning tell-alls that read like middle-school “slam books.” Yet we’re not debating media coverage here, despite the Right’s incessant efforts to deflect its thuggery by whining about the “liberal media”.
No, when it comes to in-house campaign conniving, the gold goes to GOP operatives, blithely unconcerned if families are destroyed and reputations shattered. Forget all their noise about God and country, and remember: for the Republican strategist, this is about serving the client, no matter the collateral damage.
As for serving the USA? I guess that’s just for Beijing.
Rebuttal
Campaigns have an unfortunate tendency to bring out the worst in everybody — yet the conservative “worst” is indignantly trumpeted in the press, while the equal volume of Democratic dirty tricks are hardly mentioned.
I had to laugh when Democratic strategist Paul Begala told CNN that Democrats are too polite and wait until they are attacked to respond - and even then don’t really know how to do it. He said, “I think a lot of Democrats are worried and wondering if Barack Obama is going to hit, and hit back hard.” As MSNBC’s First Read political web site pointed out, Obama has been running aggressively negative ads in swing states like Ohio this whole time — just very carefully. Their analysts said, “one of Obama’s biggest candidate strengths — which doesn’t get the attention it deserves — is that he plays political hardball as well as his opponents; he just sometimes does it under the radar.”
There is no excuse for “smear campaigns,” but the worst tactics are often part of neither the official Republican or Democratic machines. The racist anti-McCain phone calls in 2000 were not from the actual Bush team, and officials never learned who paid for them.
How can anyone say with a straight face, that Democrats aren’t just as vicious? Consider Kerry supporters’ 2004 attacks on Ralph Nader — complete with bumper stickers reading “Real Greens Say: [expletive] Nader 2004.” Or, more recently, Obama supporters’ primary-season mud slinging to prevent Hillary Clinton from trumping the man regarded as one step shy of a messiah. Or the recent deceptive Democratic congressional ads tying Republicans to everything from the KKK to forced abortions in China.
And don’t even get me started on “swiftboating.” According to an IRS report on large gifts to those notorious 527 soft-money groups, 24 donors gave $56 million to left-leaning groups in 2004; just one donor gave $1.5 million to conservative groups. Everyone knows about the horrendous Swift Boat ads - why don’t we equally know about the atrocious moveon.org videos comparing Bush to Hitler?
Sen. Lieberman explained his support for John McCain by admitting that the Democratic Party “has been effectively taken over by a small group on the left of the party that is protectionist, isolationist and…..very, very hyper partisan.” Let the games begin.
Comments
Commenting is now closed for this entry.
By Mrs. RepubLady
August 22, 2008 8:50 AM | Link to this
Republicans! And that’s as it should be. The end justifies the means, period. Who wants a bunch of sissy, lets-play-nice Democracks running the country? Who cares about their ridiculous ideas for peace and prosperity? This is a big bad world. If you’re not brave enough to lie, cheat, steal, and kill, then you’re not brave enough to defend and protect America! I have to disagree with Shaunti. Those stupid, numb-headed wussy Democracks have NOTHING on us! PUH-lease!
By funnyBone
August 22, 2008 8:58 AM | Link to this
It is interesting watching the Dems, with a black male pitted against a white female..The Clintons, as political veterans, are on the receiving end of charges of racism....Charges they have hurled at the GOP for years..The Clintons have been in unchartered waters.....how to campaign against a strong black candidate. It has been amusing hearing the race card played against the Clintons, who know dirty politics.By funnyBone
August 22, 2008 8:59 AM | Link to this
It is interesting watching the Dems, with a black male pitted against a white female..The Clintons, as political veterans, are on the receiving end of charges of racism....Charges they have hurled at the GOP for years..The Clintons have been in unchartered waters.....how to campaign against a strong black candidate. It has been amusing hearing the race card played against the Clintons, who know dirty politics.By AMDG
August 22, 2008 8:59 AM | Link to this
AC Says: The patently false Obama is a Muslim With terrorist ties” campaign follows quite a greatest-hits series:
AMDG Responds: It is patently false to accuse Republicans of mounting a campaign accusing Obama of being a Muslim. Please name the Republican that has made that charge. As for having terrorist ties one only look at Obama’s relationship with William Ayers to point to the merits of that charge.
AC Says: Atwater’s 1988 “Willie Horton” ad that put Michael Dukakis in cahoots with a murderer.
AMDG Responds: While Atwater did use Horton the issue, was first introduced by Al Gore during the primaries.
AC Says: the 2004 “Swift Boat” ad that turned John Kerry’s Vietnam bravery into something traitorous.
AMDG: The Swift boat Veterans were people who served with Kerry. They were not associated with the Republican Party or the Bush campaign. Furthermore, Kerry could have authorized the complete release of his records which he has yet to do. It should also be noted that Kerry’s dissembling about his tour of duty (the false story about Christmas in Cambodia and his congressional testimony for example) indicated that he had problems with the truth about his time in Vietnam.
Now would Sarvardy consider the following things as dirty tricks?
There perpetrator of those. None other than the messiah
By Jeff
August 22, 2008 9:00 AM | Link to this
Who was it that called the young Chelsea Clinton the “white house dog”?
Rush Limbaugh.
GOP for the win.
By DeKalb Voter
August 22, 2008 9:05 AM | Link to this
No party is more vicious and worthless than the current Democratic party headed by the token, only got the gig because she is a woman; one worthless pile of human garbage… Nanci Pelosi. She is mean and anti- military, anti- American and is the biggest token appointment in history. No Congress has enacted fewer laws and has been more impotent and benign than the current Democratic held Congress. Let’s see how wean and vile they are when Obama loses the election. I don’t doubt they’ll be protest and marching in street, a la Rodney King. Democrats always cut off their noses to spite their face and we the people suffer. IMPEACH PELOSI !!!!!!!!!
By marko
August 22, 2008 9:08 AM | Link to this
Any man that falls victim to dirty campaign tactics does’nt deserve to be president. If Obama can’t handle the Roves or the Atwaters of the world how do you expect him to handle the Russians or the Iranians? Dirty campaigns are as old as our republic none of this stuff is new. I fully expect the right wingers to portray Obama as a Muslim extremist ploting with homosexual flag burners to overthrow the National Rifle Association. Only this time they’re going to find a public a little less gullible, and a candidate that enjoys a good fight.
By Chilao
August 22, 2008 9:13 AM | Link to this
Didn’t Lee Atwater, on his death-bed, come out with “my illness has taught me something about the nature of humanity, love, brotherhood and relationships that I never understood, and probably never would have. And then he wrote letters of apology to those he had slimed against. I hope the people who received the letters told him to go do unnatural acts with himself. Walked into his hospital bed and told him direct, I would have.
And he died at 40, so so much for the saying Only the good die young. Good riddance to trash.
Of course both parties engage in scumbag tactics. I will confess. I just think the Gestapo Party is probably better at it.
By Matt Lauer
August 22, 2008 9:14 AM | Link to this
Stay tuned as an entire week of “Well THEY did this….” “Well THEY said THAT!” unfolds before us. Who will win the gold medal in the “I’m Rubber You’re Glue” competition? Bob Barr is aching for the bronze. Will he make it? Will you care? Will we lose advertising revenue for bringing you this garbage? Not a chance!
By Voice of Reason
August 22, 2008 9:20 AM | Link to this
Republicans are the most vicious-spirited people, hands down. They do some wicked things when things don’t go their way. Their attacks are vile and malicious. Even their god, Rush—what a miserable soul he really must be on the inside. Rich, but miserable. How can anyone be happy sitting and spewing venom for 3 hours a day? And many of them look alike—they have that “look.” [Off-topic a bit]: I did think it cute that on today’s front page, there are the two Black presidential candidates and the lone white boy (McCain) is in the middle.
By Mara
August 22, 2008 9:38 AM | Link to this
LOL!! This is really, really funny! Shaunti actually believes that there’s some kind of “tactical equality” between Democrats saying “F—- Nader” and the Republicans linking Max Cleland to Osama Bin Laden!!
the best one though is where Shaunti says “Everyone knows about the horrendous Swift Boat ads - why don’t we equally know about the atrocious moveon.org videos comparing Bush to Hitler?” LOL!!! Shaunti…doesn’t that illustrate exactly the differences between party tactics?! Democrats simply don’t have the enjoyment for baseless lies and smear that Republicans do. Unlike GOP gambits, which get whispered about, forwarded in e-mail, spread on Fox and Limbaugh as though it was “news”, and gleefully disseminated through rightwing websites, mailing lists, and the faith community…Democratic ‘dirty pool’ seldom makes it into the mainstream.
It’s the difference between wanting to win and needing to destroy your enemy.
By NYer
August 22, 2008 9:40 AM | Link to this
What a pointless and stupid topic.
By ZEKE
August 22, 2008 9:41 AM | Link to this
Democrats and liberals are the biggest threat to the USA! They want to turn us into the failed Soviet Union because it is the ideal way and they can do it better than the Soviets! HOGWASH! Democrats are the scourge of a free USA! More and more entitlements taking more and more from those who work, contribute and become successful to give to those with their hand out! From each according to his ability to each according to his need! Sound familiar! KARL MARXX! THE SOVIET UNION! And the liberals fall all over themselves in awe of Mao, Castro, Chavez and others! That should tell you something about their agenda! And when will you liberal nuts in the liberal media quit calling those here illegally immigrants? THEY ARE NOT IMMIGRANTS! THEY ARE CRIMINALS AND NEED TO BE ARRESTED AND DEPORTED NOW! AND ALL THE CRAP ABOUT WE CANNOT ARREST AND DEPORT 20 MILLION, WHAT ABOUT THEIR CHILDREN BORN HERE? IF THEY ARE BORN HERE TO SOMEONE HERE ILLEGALLY, THEY ARE NOT CITIZENS! YOU CANNOT MAKE SOMEONE LEGAL WHO IS HERE FROM UNLAWFULL ILLEGAL ACTIONS!! And it is the DEMOCRAT PARTY , NOT THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY! THERE IS NOTHING DEOMCRATIC ABOUT IT! LIBERAL SOCIALIST THUGS CANNOT BE DEMOCRATIC!!!!!!!!!!
By Gale
August 22, 2008 9:54 AM | Link to this
The campaigns will always be ugly while the uninformed and refuse to be informed are permitted to vote. The campaigns will say what ever gets votes from the masses. For most of the voters in the country, it is easier to vote for whoever you think do what they think is right. Of course, they somehow ignore the fact that same person promises something else to a different group, and oh, by the way, there are a whole bunch of folks, elected, appointed and career non-political government workers in DC who might have other ideas. The campaigns are rallys full of rah-rah and meaningless promises, mixed with implications the opponent is not as good. The goal is money and power to spend my/our money.
The process is unlikely to change without serious upheaval. We are not by nature benevolent creatures.
By USinUK
August 22, 2008 10:04 AM | Link to this
Shaunti -
Everyone knows about the horrendous Swift Boat ads - why don’t we equally know about the atrocious moveon.org videos comparing Bush to Hitler?
the difference being that the Swift Boat ads AIRED NATIONALLY and were produced by the organization. the Hitler ad was submitted TO moveon - not produced BY moveon - was disqualified from the contest and was NEVER aired by the organization.
but, facts, schmacts … let’s not let accuracy get in the way of a good smear.
oh, and AMDG - you are absolutely WRONG when you say The Swift boat Veterans were people who served with Kerry only ONE of them served with Kerry. A number of them served on his boat, but only AFTER he left.
By USinUK
August 22, 2008 10:08 AM | Link to this
NYer -
What a pointless and stupid topic. seriously.
By Bruno
August 22, 2008 10:15 AM | Link to this
Good morning, Mara,Gale, NYer. And good morning to Truth, wherever you are. So much for the goodwill we had going earlier this week……..
The campaigns are rallys full of rah-rah and meaningless promises, mixed with implications the opponent is not as good. The goal is money and power to spend my/our money. The process is unlikely to change without serious upheaval. We are not by nature benevolent creatures.
Gale, you are right on the money once again—which is why I don’t really give a rat’s a* about politics anymore. The only real impact politicians have on my life is when they either raise or lower taxes.
Special note to Mrs. RepubLady: It’s sad to me that you are so bitter about life. Big hug to you.
By USinUK
August 22, 2008 10:15 AM | Link to this
Zeke -
Prozac.
Thorazine.
Valium.
Pick any one … then take plenty. You seem to need it.
By Bruno
August 22, 2008 10:24 AM | Link to this
Good morning to you, too, USinUK. My mini-vacation is almost over, but wanted to tell you how much I enjoyed blogging with you and the gang this week. Too bad it all had to end on a sour note today.
Did you watch the men’s beach volleyball last night? Very inspiring win by the US men. I saw that your adopted country has done well in the medal count as well, though the networks didn’t show any of their matches. I got a big kick out of the women’s BMX bicycle racing again last night. Watching them wipe out left and right almost reminded me of watching a dog race at the dog track.
Take care, beautiful.
By USinUK
August 22, 2008 10:25 AM | Link to this
Bruno …
fine. ignore me, just because I’m a Gemini … you’re … you’re … you’re anti-geminist!
:-P
By Truth
August 22, 2008 10:25 AM | Link to this
Yesterday, McCain was asked how many houses he owns. The problems is that Cindy, his wife own several, which of course, by law make them his houses. Several members of her family are in those houses and a few are sub-leased. So the 20 second sound bite showed McCain, for the first time in quite a while as being indecisive.
This morning, Obama, who is out-spending McCain 5 to 3 (and losing ground like crazy) released an ad talking about how McCain didn’t understand the housing problems that the country is going through because he is such an elitist that he can’t keep up with the number of houses he owns. Kind of slimy, but not really that bad, simply because McCain’s single response just didn’t make that good of an attack point.
McCain’s people have already responded. They pointed out how Obama owned a mansion that was partially financed by the Chicago Mobster, Tony Resco. They didn’t even address how he was the strong arm attorney for a Chicago slum lord and was directly responsible for many poor families losing their home.
But was McCain’s camp playing too dirty by bringing up Obama’s ties with organized crime? It’s simple. When you wade into a fight and you take a swing at someone, just because you only land a glancing blow, don’t be surprised if your opponent lands a knock out. Don’t pick a PR fight with a shoplifter if you are a bank robber.
Clinton was so slimy that one of the campaign slogans of 1992 was “Character Doesn’t Matter”. So if the Republicans jumped on that, they were playing dirty politics.
Kerry had three purple hearts. In an interview with one of the doctors that treated him, it was revealed that the treatment took less time than filling out the papers to apply for the purple heart. A lot of families only got their loved one’s purple hearts instead of their living loved ones. They just might be offended by a man that gave false testimony against his fellow soldiers and was strutting around with purple hearts for band-aid wounds.
My advice to the Democrats would be to take a look at the people you are running for office.
A tailor trash, two timing philanderer in 1992.
An ex-bible pounder that became the darling of Hollywood after he denounces his and his wives campaign against the filth in Hollywood in 2000.
A man that threw his Viet Nam medals over the fence at the White House, but somehow, now proudly displays those same medals in his office in 2004.
And a Chicago politician that attended and supported an institution that is as racist as any KKK clan and has ties to the Chicago mob in 2008.
By Gale
August 22, 2008 10:36 AM | Link to this
We can always change the topic again.
Dogs never fell down in the dog races I’ve seen. I am hearing bitter complaints about the coverage of the decathelon, almost non-existant. I can watch baseball and basketball most months of the year, why most the tv coverage spend so much time on sports we see too much of already. We never did see Tai Kwan Do. And table tennis? I really don’t understand the Chinese fascination.
By USinUK
August 22, 2008 10:37 AM | Link to this
Bruno -
My mini-vacation is almost over, but wanted to tell you how much I enjoyed blogging with you and the gang this week. Too bad it all had to end on a sour note today
it’s been great to see you back in the sandbox! hopefully, all will go well at the big event next week - you’ll have to pop in and let us know how it goes!! and, also, what you decide to do for a sports program! me, I go for anything rhythmic you can do for distance (cycling, swimming and inline skating, for instance) - if you can find a place to do it - like a trail - where you can set a good pace then get in the zone, there’s nothing better to boost those endorphins and defeat the funk!!
~hugs~
By Bruno
August 22, 2008 10:38 AM | Link to this
fine. ignore me, just because I’m a Gemini … you’re … you’re … you’re anti-geminist!
I would never ignore you, dear. You’re my ray of sunshine, geminist and all.
By Gale
August 22, 2008 10:47 AM | Link to this
Truth, I don’t really know what wounds Kerry sustained to receive his purple hearts, or whether he was actually in battle. I don’t really care. But if a wound is received in battle, however slight, it deserves public notice. My first ex was a river boat sailor in Viet Nam. He was grazed by a bullet on the back of the neck. Minor wound, sure. A shiver at the wrong moment would have meant death. Yes, the medal was deserved.
By Bruno
August 22, 2008 10:50 AM | Link to this
We can always change the topic again.
That would probably set a new record for W2W, off-topic in less than 2 hours! I give Andrea credit for writing a strong column, but hardly see how pointing fingers at each other for a week is going to help anyone.
me, I go for anything rhythmic
My imagination is reeling…… ; > }
By Mara
August 22, 2008 11:12 AM | Link to this
Truth - you say Rezko, I say Keating Five. Glass houses and flying stones.
But that’s kind of beside the point. This is exactly the kind of tactic that Republicans are prone to use. There was nothing illegal about Obama’s dealing with Rezko, nor have any of the investigations implicated Obama in any of Rezko’s wrongdoing. Yet here we are listening to you imply that anyone with any decency should have known what a slime Rezko was, therefore Obama must not be a person of decency. And that because Obama didn’t know that Rezko was a criminal, it’s unfair to point out that McCain is so wealthy he doesn’t even know how many houses he and his wife own.
Rezko has nothing, absolutely nothing, to do with whether Scrooge McDuck understands the situation many middle-class Americans find themselves, so why bring it up? Because it does allow you to change the subject and you can then impugn Obama’s character without actually saying that he sympathizes and conspires with slum lords and criminals.
By Bruno
August 22, 2008 11:13 AM | Link to this
there’s nothing better to boost those endorphins and defeat the funk!!
Thanks again for your encouragement, USinUK. I’m going to do all that I can to get out of this funk, and hopefully sports will help. Otherwise, I’m trying to figure out the easiest way to check out of this mess. The only thing keeping me hanging on these days is my dear Sweetie, my pet rabbit.
Ultimately, however, I think the best solution will be to find my “soulmate”, wherever she is. I’ve been emailing back and forth with a beautiful Asian woman in NC through the Fitness Singles website. We’ve been getting into some deeply spiritual discussions, so who knows? I’m probably not good enough for her, but maybe she needs a punching bag.
By JokesOn
August 22, 2008 11:14 AM | Link to this
Dog,
(off topic question for you) Got back from a great vacation to find out my sister-in-law was referred to a chiropractor by a friend for a free exam. She explained to the chiropractor on arrival that insurance at her new job has not kicked in yet, but would in 30 days, so she cannot incur any charges what-so-ever until then. He said that he fully understands and that she should have the free exam and begin the patient/doctor relationship and take it from there.
Long story short, although she reiterated her need to not to incur charges three times in the visit, the last time was when he said they were now going to take x-rays, but was assured “they would take care of her and everything is alright.” “My secretary will explain all future charges and make sure she is comfortable with them.”
I had heard of this happening a few times before to other people and the ending is always the same. She meets with the secretary the next day, before making an appointments to be adjust a couple times before insurance kicks in, and the lady tells her she currently owes about $900 for x-rays and an extended visit. My sister-in-law is floored, since she knows she made her situation absolutely clear. A few days later and after many heated telephone conversations, he does leave a message that he will zero out any balance and would just consider it a misunderstanding.
The question: It seems a lot of chiropractors work this way and she is now turned off by the notion of seeing another. Is this actually normal for a chiropractor to act? How does one know the ones that do not act this way? This one was referred by a friend, so even the word of mouth aspect seems untrustworthy. Is there a rating site or such you know about? (she lives on the west coast, not georgia)
(on topic) The McCain ad that alludes to Obama being the Antichrist is a prime example of the truly slimy and wrong tactics the rebubs will use.
By USinUK
August 22, 2008 11:20 AM | Link to this
Bruno -
Ultimately, however, I think the best solution will be to find my “soulmate”, wherever she is.
oh, honey - marriage/dating/being in a relationship won’t fix your problems … and it puts WAY too much pressure on the other person to make you happy (or in your case, bunster, “hoppy”).
look for a soulmate, by all means, but look for your happiness within yourself.
By Mara
August 22, 2008 11:22 AM | Link to this
Gale - For most of the voters in the country, it is easier to vote for whoever you think (will) do what they think is right. Of course, they somehow ignore the fact that same person promises something else to a different group…
you’re right. sigh. I wish you weren’t.
Bruno - I’m so glad that the “FunForSingles” thing is already working out for you! Yeah! Good luck and don’t give up. As the song says, “there’s someone for everyone…”
by the by, for all the math/physics geeks that hang out here…does a kite rise with the wind or against the wind?
By Truth
August 22, 2008 11:32 AM | Link to this
Gale
My Dad died in 1972 from complications of wounds he received at Iwo Jima. I resent Kerry making such a huge deal out of flesh wounds. Kerry was there exactly the time he needed to qualify for the campaign ribbon. Not one day more. I had several friends die in Nam, and most of those died in the closing months of their service. If they would have had the same strings to pull as Kerry, they would be alive, today.
One of his decorations was for shooting a 16 years old in the back with a 50Cal, mounted on his boat. Look at the thickness of your wrist. That is around the size of the diameter of a 50 cal round. Do you know what that would do to a human body? And then he testified in front of a senate Sub-committee, calling his fellow soldiers murderers, after he had thrown his medals over the fence. I love you girl, but Kerry is slime.
By dittohead
August 22, 2008 11:35 AM | Link to this
Don't think Voice of Reason has ever listened to(3) hours of Rush. Nor an hour of FOX NEWs.I'd bet he listens to left-wing network TV, CNN, MSNBC. & liberal talk radioBy Truth
August 22, 2008 11:38 AM | Link to this
Mara
I know. That’s whet the debate is about. McCain wasn’t quick with an answer so the Democrats attack him for it. To respond, the Republicans make a very real connection between Obama and an organized crime figure. Both attacks were slimy, but who attacked on a very weak premise first?
Don’t throw a punch and not expect one back.
By Lyrazel
August 22, 2008 11:41 AM | Link to this
Both party candidates come off as tepid— remember they approve of this ad. its the floaters who wage the nasty-to-be-heard campaigns and those people are not up for elections. Its the politico commentators who rough up candidates positions—but none are up for election—just want advertising dollars and eyeballs & ears for their shows. More people listen to spin commentary than gather factual information about candidates—a sad bit of truth to our political system. American election campaigns are historically rough and its the heat that captures voter interest during the periods of no debate. Its a pity after the elections are over so few people can actually name their congress and representatives—
By Bruno
August 22, 2008 11:41 AM | Link to this
The question: It seems a lot of chiropractors work this way and she is now turned off by the notion of seeing another. Is this actually normal for a chiropractor to act? How does one know the ones that do not act this way? This one was referred by a friend, so even the word of mouth aspect seems untrustworthy. Is there a rating site or such you know about? (she lives on the west coast, not georgia)
Hey, buddy. Sorry to hear one more story about an unethical chiro. Please extend my sympathy to your SIL.
The answer to your question is three-fold. First, from a legal standpoint, if the chiro offered something for free, then it it’s free, no ifs ands, or buts. I’m not sure about the state laws of CA, but here in GA if the doctor-patient relationship starts off with a “free exam” offer, then any additional treatment/services, including x-rays, must be agreed upon in writing, in advance. Period. I’m not buying the “misunderstanding” explanation by the chiro. It sounds to me like he knew he did something wrong and is back-pedaling as fast as he can.
Secondly, from a moral standpoint, I think that luring people in with some kind of free offer, then socking it to them on the back-end is reprehensible. $900 for x-rays and a treatment, however long, is way out of line.
Thirdly, your SIL has to take some responsibility here as well. There’s no free lunch in this world, so what was she thinking when she went in looking for a free exam, x-rays, and treatment? I’m not letting the chiro off the hook, but I can’t agree with her way of thinking either.
I’m not aware of any rating sites for chiros, but what she experienced is not uncommon. When I had my own practice, I avoided all that mess by accepting cash on the barrel only. I set my fees as low as possible ($10 for an exam, $27 for a treatment, and almost never took x-rays). Furthermore, if I didn’t think chiro care was the right option for someone, I would tell them upfront, and give them the option to try a treatment if they wanted, with no guarantees of success. For that reason, I never had to advertise or make any offers of any kind to folks to get them in to see me. Word-of-mouth is still the best way to find a good doctor, chiro or medical, IMO, but you still have to ask a few questions.
Sorry again for her bad experience.
P.S. Did you catch any fish?
By Observant
August 22, 2008 11:42 AM | Link to this
When this idiotic nation realize the problem with the nation is more than “Democrap” and “Republikkkan” maybe then we can truly see progress. Until then, everything will continute to be the same. When certain segments realize Rush and Hannity aren’t the mouthpiece of god (little g for a reason), when people realize the difference between the two isn’t that great (they show what is needed to appease we the stupid masses) then the country can flourish. But lets look at the blogs…is this really going to happen? Conservate or Liberal, it doesn’t matter. Rome didn’t know it was falling………
By Truth
August 22, 2008 11:44 AM | Link to this
USinUk
oh, honey - marriage/dating/being in a relationship won’t fix your problems … and it puts WAY too much pressure on the other person to make you happy (or in your case, bunster, “hoppy”).
Girl, you got that right.
look for a soulmate, by all means, but look for your happiness within yourself.
Home run. I know so many singles that are looking for happiness. I met a lot of women after my divorce that wanted me to make them happy. Me making me happy is hard enough.
By Bruno
August 22, 2008 11:50 AM | Link to this
oh, honey - marriage/dating/being in a relationship won’t fix your problems … and it puts WAY too much pressure on the other person to make you happy (or in your case, bunster, “hoppy”).
I know, USinUK. For the record, I’ve never looked to a partner to make me happy. For me, having someone in my life primarily helps me to have a goal greater than just my own satisfaction. That’s all.
Don’t throw a punch and not expect one back.
Truth, maybe you need to study the principles of Aikido more closely. In Aikido, the right response to a punch isn’t to punch back, but to deflect the opponent’s energy in a way that keeps everyone safe. Be a bigger man, don’t just punch back. Not preaching to you, just trying to give you some encouragement, as you have done for me.
by the by, for all the math/physics geeks that hang out here…does a kite rise with the wind or against the wind?
I’ll have to think about that for a minute, Mara, but my instinct is to say that it’s a yin-yang situation. The kite rises BOTH with the wind AND against the wind, all at the same time. Does that make any sense to you? Your question strikes directly at the heart of the concept of “duality”.
By Gale
August 22, 2008 11:51 AM | Link to this
Mara, I wish I wasn’t right too. But it is the behavior I have observed all of my adult life.
USinUK to Bruno: Truer words were never spoken (written). Happiness only comes from within. Another person cannot give you happiness.
Truth, war is ugly. It becomes uglier when we have no valid reason to be where we are, shooting people and being shot at. A medal is a poor reward for the horror. And regardless of any opinion of Kerry, a flesh wound is only small measure from a serious wound.
By USinUK
August 22, 2008 11:52 AM | Link to this
d-oh! that should have read anti-aircraft gun, not missile
By dittohead
August 22, 2008 11:52 AM | Link to this
When McCain was asked by a reporter how many houses he owned, he should have ain."None of your damn business." It was none of the reporters business. It was a biased reporter seeking to embarrase McCain...I would bet most reporters get their questions from the DNC & Howard DeanBy Bruno
August 22, 2008 11:56 AM | Link to this
When this idiotic nation realize the problem with the nation is more than “Democrap” and “Republikkkan” maybe then we can truly see progress. Until then, everything will continute to be the same. When certain segments realize Rush and Hannity aren’t the mouthpiece of god (little g for a reason), when people realize the difference between the two isn’t that great (they show what is needed to appease we the stupid masses) then the country can flourish. But lets look at the blogs…is this really going to happen? Conservate or Liberal, it doesn’t matter. Rome didn’t know it was falling………
Good point, Observant. Quick question for you, what are you personally doing to lift people’s spirits?? Are you applying the “idiot” label to yourself as well, or only pointing fingers at everone else? Just wondering…….
By Truth
August 22, 2008 11:58 AM | Link to this
Bruno
I love to talk about cars, relationships, movies, music, airplanes, building stuff . . all those things and most people here are good people that are great to talk to. But this is a political blog. We are three days from the DNC convention and then we have the RNC convention. There has been so much happen this week, but everyone was afraid to bring up the political aspects of it all.
Even though we all let it be, this should not be personal. But the reason why people can’t talk politics or religion in public is because it is so personal.
There’s always going to be snipers, and these little respites are great because we get to see the human side of each other, but this is politics.
Good luck with the singles thing. Just be positive and don’t expect too much. Just keep depression and past loves completely out of the conversation. Just be nice and you will do great.
By Susan
August 22, 2008 12:23 PM | Link to this
Republicans will do virtually anything to discredit Democrats. They make up lies which are repeated by Limbaugh, Hannity and Fox “News” until they become “fact”. It has never been so vicious and it is tearing this country apart. I don’t think in the past 4 decades that it was ever anything like it is now. Anyone watching Fox or even the major networks in many cases is not getting unbiased news - it’s all to keep the Republicans happy because they are the ones who have the biggest alliances with the news corporations. We need to all be fighting for the truth and focusing on the real issues of the campaign.
W
By Bruno
August 22, 2008 12:40 PM | Link to this
Republicans will do virtually anything to discredit Democrats.
But not the other way around?? Give me a break.
The bottom line, Susan, is that NO politician truly has your best interests at heart. They only have their own interests at heart. Which is why I don’t really care about politics anymore. The best advice I can give you, and everyone else here, is to focus all of your energy on making the world a better place and to make your own life as happy as possible.
P.S. Do as I say, not as I do. ; > }
By Restore Freedom
August 22, 2008 1:06 PM | Link to this
Doesn’t this make you want to vote Paul? If he wasn’t incompetent for the role of commander and chief he’d make a perfect president. But since most Americans don’t even consider that the president’s consitutional role is commander and chief, not economic controller or medical practices regulator, it is ironic they don’t vote to the most economically and medically advanced candidate. Perhaps it is because he runs on the very principle of the constitution (which would relegate him primarily to being an incompetent commander and chief) that justices and the people alike have steadily ignored to a greater degree over the last 160 years. But maybe we need an incompetent commander and chief to remind us that this is the role on which a candidate should be judged.
By JokesOn
August 22, 2008 1:08 PM | Link to this
Dog,
Thirdly, your SIL has to take some responsibility here as well. There’s no free lunch in this world, so what was she thinking when she went in looking for a free exam, x-rays, and treatment? I’m not letting the chiro off the hook, but I can’t agree with her way of thinking either.
I disagree about her being partly at fault only because she did make it absolutely clear 3 times. She did that because she knew the stories and wanted to cover herself.
Republicans will do virtually anything to discredit Democrats.
But not the other way around?? Give me a break.
The key word is anything, and I agree. Can you find instances where democrats slander? Yes. But, on a thematic basis, repubs take the cake.
And for someone to say that thousands of soldiers should not have gotten a purple heart because their wounds were not significant enough is sickening.
By Dr. Phil
August 22, 2008 1:29 PM | Link to this
You don’t need to hire a prostitute to be nasty all by yourself.
By Bruno
August 22, 2008 1:32 PM | Link to this
She explained to the chiropractor on arrival that insurance at her new job has not kicked in yet, but would in 30 days, so she cannot incur any charges what-so-ever until then.
I disagree about her being partly at fault only because she did make it absolutely clear 3 times. She did that because she knew the stories and wanted to cover herself.
JokesOn—Under what scenario can someone walk into a doctor’s office, whether chiro or medical, and expect free treatment for thirty days? I’m not following your logic here. Did she strike some kind of “deal” with the guy—“Hey, treat me for free for thirty days and then go ahead and sock it to the insurance company on the back-end”??? That’s what it sounds like to me. If that’s the case, then I think that your SIL has to share some responsibility for the “deal” going sour. Is there something I’m missing?
My point here is that if you pick up a dead skunk in the middle of the road, you shouldn’t complain when your hands stink later. That’s all. I’m sure your SIL is a nice person, but I think she made an error in judgment by trying to strike some kind of back-end insurance deal with the chiro. As I’ve stated before, any type of third-party payor system automatically makes crooks out of both doctors and patients. Which is one more reason that I am not in favor of more insurance coverage ala Obama’s “free chicken in every pot” proposal.
By USinUK
August 22, 2008 1:40 PM | Link to this
Well, it looks like posting is going to be interesting this week … I’ve had not one, not two, but THREE posts hijacked by the AJC - what do they have in common??? linkees.
okay. so.
Bruno -
go to the Times of London - www. timesonline. co. uk. I’d make that a link, but it seems that I can’t. click on sports, then Olympics - there’s an article about sex at the games that I think you’d appreciate, ya big horn-bunny.
Truth -
Kerry didn’t get his silver star for shooting any VC - he got it for capturing an anti-aircraft gun with a round still in the chamber. I linked to factcheck.org (if you google “truth about swift boat” that should be the first link)
grrr … if we can’t include links, this is going to be a long and very irritating week.
By JokesOn
August 22, 2008 1:44 PM | Link to this
JokesOn—Under what scenario can someone walk into a doctor’s office, whether chiro or medical, and expect free treatment for thirty days?
Maybe I was unclear, but this is one visit, not thirty days.
In thirty days she would start actual treatment that would be paid for and is what she explained multiple times; not to get treatment during that time and retro-actively apply it to insurance.
By Truth
August 22, 2008 1:45 PM | Link to this
Gale
It becomes uglier when we have no valid reason to be where we are, shooting people and being shot at.
People were saying that we had no valid reason to be in England, ready to launch D-Day. Germany didn’t attack us. WWI was about the assassination of a Prince. Viet Nam was simply about “stopping the red menace.” The Civil War was about southern planters being able to ship cotton to Europe from Southern Ports instead of being forced to pay Northern dock fees. It had little to do with slavery until the Emancipation Proclamation was drafted to keep the anti-slavery European forces from helping the South. The ‘91 Gulf War was about giving back billions to billionaires.
I can’t think of a single war that was justified by everybody. The difference is that in today’s world, politicians believe that their political careers are more important than the lives of our soldiers.
Iraq is the second largest producer of oil in the Middle east, the least stable area in the world. This is going to be a “Resource War Century.” That’s what Georgia is all about. My GF is in the Ukraine right now helping the rest of her family get the hell out of there. They don’t have oil. They have wheat. Russia needs the wheat and since we now have half of our political world here in America as being known to make political hay out of the earth shaking fact that War Is Bad, Russia knows that we are not going to do a damn thing to defend our allies, even though tiny Georgia sent troops to help us in Iraq.
The US has been the world’s policeman for the last half of the last century. The Democrats have finally managed to castrate that policeman. And the spineless Republicans are folding to the pressure that the liberal media has been pounding them with.
So the Democrats have gotten their way. We are no longer a good, dependable ally. We will NOT protect our friends. The most evil people in the world know that. We are probably OK. No one is going to invade the US at least for a while. But watch what happens to our allies, now that we are a paper tiger. Russia is not even going to slow down before they are once again the evil empire that Reagan talked about.
Thanks to people like George Soros that would sell a nuke to Osama bin Laden if it would make him a few bucks, the world is a very mean and horrible place and it will get meaner and more and more people are going to die while we are building windmills and getting fatter on fast food.
Whomever is the next person in the White house is going to face major wars in South America. Major wars in Europe. Major wars in Africa. Major wars in the Middle east. Major wars in the far east. And we will set and smugly watch it all, while we beg people to clean up their air.
Depressing outlook? Yes it is.
By JokesOn
August 22, 2008 1:53 PM | Link to this
JokesOn—Under what scenario can someone walk into a doctor’s office, whether chiro or medical, and expect free treatment for thirty days?
Just to be sure it is completely clear: She expected and stated she wanted the free exam primarily to get to know what he could do and get in his records etc, and then would return when insurance kicked in.
She walked out at the end of that day with a bill that was just over $1000.
By Truth
August 22, 2008 1:54 PM | Link to this
USinUK
The blog is weird. Notice that some posts are not separated by a space. And earlier in the week, we were posting all night, but not now. Yesterday there was a space of several hours that nothing posted.
I haven’t tried to post a link, but now you say that is a problem.
Maybe Bruno is right. We should stick to discussions about cars and food, but how can i show you all those cars that i could never afford?
i’ll check on the Kerry link, but you aren’t going to convince me that he was a good soldier. Not after that damned testimony.
By JokesOn
August 22, 2008 1:58 PM | Link to this
We are a paper tiger because we exhausted our resources in areas of little interest if you compare them to: border security, Afghanistan, Nuclear Ability in the two countries that were known to be pursuing it, our own infrastructure/economy that was showing sings of ailing.
By USinUK
August 22, 2008 1:59 PM | Link to this
Truth -
We are no longer a good, dependable ally. We will NOT protect our friends.
look, I understand the point you’re trying to make here - but the US is really a crap ally. we stood by and did bupkis - niente - nada - while London, Liverpool and other cities in the country were getting bombed nightly by the Luftwaffe. Nothing. For a year. while 100,000 innocent civilians were killed in their homes, on their streets and in their shelters. we did nothing until we were bombed by the Japanese, THEN we started to help them.
so, please. before you start with what a stellar ally the US is, stop and consider the facts, first. the US is a great country, full of good people - but, it has also a long isolationist past where it didn’t jump in to help its allies in their hour of need.
By USinUK
August 22, 2008 2:04 PM | Link to this
Truth -
i’ll check on the Kerry link, but you aren’t going to convince me that he was a good soldier. Not after that damned testimony.
look. you can dislike him for your own personal reasons - just make sure they’re accurate, yeah?
:-)
By Bruno
August 22, 2008 2:04 PM | Link to this
She meets with the secretary the next day, before making an appointments to be adjust a couple times before insurance kicks in, and the lady tells her she currently owes about $900 for x-rays and an extended visit.
I’m trying to follow your story, JokesOn, but from what you stated earlier, she DID attempt to contract for treatment before her insurance “kicked in”. Am I misreading your original post?
In thirty days she would start actual treatment that would be paid for and is what she explained multiple times; not to get treatment during that time and retro-actively apply it to insurance.
Your wording is still a little unclear. Either way, I’m not sure of what value it would be to have an exam and x-rays without followup treatment. If she didn’t intend to receive treatment until the insurance kicked in, then why not wait until then to receive the exam and x-rays? If she was hoping to get treated now, with “retro-active billing” to occur at a later time, then she is just as guilty of insurance fraud as the doctor would be.
But let ME be clear: While I think your sister made an error in judgment to contract for services w/o payment, I primarily blame the chiro for what sounds like shady business practices. OK? I don’t know all the facts of the case, but the last thing the chiropractic profession needs is more bad practitioners. As a “professional person”, the chiro should have immediately rejected any insurance “scheme” and do what is right.
By USinUK
August 22, 2008 2:09 PM | Link to this
Truth -
I can’t BELIEVE I forgot to tell you!!! There is now an electric sports roadster … check out teslamotors. com!!! it goes for 200 miles before you need a recharge and is supposed to be perfectly silent on the road and fast-fast-fast! (saw a pic of it … it’s sassy, too!)
as for cars you can’t afford … I’m still disappointed that you turn your nose up at a Lamborghini (especially the Gallardo) … son, we need to talk!
By JokesOn
August 22, 2008 2:18 PM | Link to this
I’m trying to follow your story, JokesOn, but from what you stated earlier, she DID attempt to contract for treatment before her insurance “kicked in”. Am I misreading your original post?
She did not try to contract anything. She only stated that she was to be made aware of anything that would be billed before it occurred. She stated that simply because she knew of chiros that moved from the free exam to treatment/billable services without ever making that clear.
Why would she go to the free exam now? Simply because seeing a chiro was in her near future plans and it happen that her friend got the free card because she mentioned my SILs issue.
I do not know about you, but I always start shopping around (be it a car or medical services) before I am in actual need. That is what she was doing. checking him out to see if it would be a match.
By Bruno
August 22, 2008 2:27 PM | Link to this
Just to be sure it is completely clear: She expected and stated she wanted the free exam primarily to get to know what he could do and get in his records etc, and then would return when insurance kicked in.
She walked out at the end of that day with a bill that was just over $1000.
I follow you now, sorry for the earlier confusion. If what you are saying is true, then the chiro was completely in the wrong. In GA, the guy could be subject to a board complaint, with possible loss of license. I’m not familiar with the state laws of CA, but GA is very strict regarding the “free exam” offers.
I’m sure there are bad practitioners in every profession, but I am always saddened to hear about bad chiros, since we’re fighting an uphill battle to begin with. Obviously chiros can’t help any and all conditions, but I know for a fact that I’ve saved hundreds, if not thousands of people from having back surgery.
Thanks for the clarification—your SIL’s good name is reinstated in my book.
By Truth
August 22, 2008 2:27 PM | Link to this
USinUk
OK I checked. the “shell that was in the chamber” was actually a shoulder fired missile that had not been fired by the kid that he had shot in the back while the kid was fleeing. That engagement did have more elements than I had thought, but he still shot a kid in the back as he ran away.
I agree that we waited too long to come to the aid of England. Hell, we let the entire continent fall before we finally moved. We weren’t quite the world policeman that we became after the war. That’s why i said that we have been the policeman for the last half of the last century.
My point is that all that is happening again. A lot of WWII was about resources. Japan bombed Pearl Harbor because we had cut off their oil supplies.
The Viet Nam War kept China from controlling all those shipping lanes that go all around Indo-China. It cost us 50,000 American lives, but we did keep them from having control of a large part of world commerce. Was it worth it? Not to me. I lost good friends over there. And the guys that came home were crazy as hell, not to mention what it did to our country.
If we are going to be isolationists, let’s do it. Let’s drill our own oil. Let’s close off foreign trade. Let’s lock down the borders. We could survive here for the rest of our lives and probably for generations to come. But nobody is doing that. We want all the benifits of world commerce without the costs of keeping a peaceful world.
By JokesOn
August 22, 2008 2:37 PM | Link to this
Obviously chiros can’t help any and all conditions, but I know for a fact that I’ve saved hundreds, if not thousands of people from having back surgery.
That is why I also asked about a rating site or such. I am sure a chiro could help her. She has 3 blown disks in c5,6,7 which has rapidly affected every part of her life over the last 2 years.
Just for added info, I do consider chiros a very advanced area of physical therapy and can serve a much needed purpose. Especially, since you are always in recovery and never actually “cured.” At least in situations like deg spine disorders.
By Bruno
August 22, 2008 2:38 PM | Link to this
go to the Times of London - www. timesonline. co. uk. I’d make that a link, but it seems that I can’t. click on sports, then Olympics - there’s an article about sex at the games that I think you’d appreciate, ya big horn-bunny.
Fun article, USinUK—but not much of a surprise, I guess. Thanks for thinking about me. ; > }
Maybe Bruno is right. We should stick to discussions about cars and food, but how can i show you all those cars that i could never afford?
Actually, Truth, that wasn’t my suggestion at all. I’m all for political discussions, but just don’t see any value in demonizing one political party while nominating the other for sainthood. They’re all crooks in my book, and not a one of them truly gives a hang about the “little guy”, to borrow a British expression.
At any rate, quoting Billy Joel from Chilao’s earlier post:
I’d rather laugh with the sinners
Than cry with the saints
The sinners are much more fun
By So
August 22, 2008 2:45 PM | Link to this
but he still shot a kid in the back as he ran away
so? that ‘kid’ was VC, and it was war.
By Bruno
August 22, 2008 2:48 PM | Link to this
look, I understand the point you’re trying to make here - but the US is really a crap ally. we stood by and did bupkis - niente - nada - while London, Liverpool and other cities in the country were getting bombed nightly by the Luftwaffe. Nothing. For a year. while 100,000 innocent civilians were killed in their homes, on their streets and in their shelters. we did nothing until we were bombed by the Japanese, THEN we started to help them.
The US has been the world’s policeman for the last half of the last century. The Democrats have finally managed to castrate that policeman. And the spineless Republicans are folding to the pressure that the liberal media has been pounding them with.
Actually, once again, I think that you’re both right. Prior to WWII, with the exception of our involvement in WWI, the US followed an isolationist policy for the most part. And for good reason—we really didn’t have the resources to help anyone. There seems to be a common misconception that the US has ALWAYS been a nation of great wealth, which isn’t true at all. Though we’ve always been a nation full of tremendous natural resources, it took WWII to advance us to the front of the pack economically. In the modern world, both Africa and South America remain loaded with natural resources, but they remain at the bottom of the heap economically.
By Lyrazel
August 22, 2008 2:49 PM | Link to this
Happy Friday peoples!!! Its been a wonderful week reading the blog and finding polite conversation is still possible here!
If we are going to be isolationists, let’s do it…We could survive here for the rest of our lives and probably for generations to come. But nobody is doing that. We want all the benifits of world commerce without the costs of keeping a peaceful world.How true, Truth—but we also must admit the mistakes of our past involvements in promoting rogues, juntas and despots.
By Bruno
August 22, 2008 2:57 PM | Link to this
Just for added info, I do consider chiros a very advanced area of physical therapy and can serve a much needed purpose. Especially, since you are always in recovery and never actually “cured.” At least in situations like deg spine disorders.
FYI, there has been a big movement to bring the two profession together recently: The PTS are clamoring to include spinal manipulation as part of their treatment, and the chiros are learning more and more about spinal rehab using exercises along with manipulation. In fact, GA changed the scope of practice laws last July to require the chiros to obtain PT certification. I’m back in school every other weekend through mid-November to meet the requirement.
In the end, I hope that one day the “compartmentalization” of health care will end. Healing is healing is healing, whatever the mode. Of course, as a chiro, I favor “natural” methods to stimulate healing over chemically-induced ones, but recognize that sometimes drugs and surgery are necessary. Especially once the body loses its ability to heal on its own, such as in the case of severe disc degeneration.
Without pointing too many fingers, however, I blame the MDs for the lack of greater alliance. They’ve got all the power, both economically and legally, and aren’t keen on letting “alternative” professions stand shoulder to shoulder with them. Fortunately, a large segment of the population is now demanding less invasive treatment.
Thanks again for clarifying your SIL’s situation.. I didn’t mean to impugn her in any way.
By Bruno
August 22, 2008 3:08 PM | Link to this
Happy Friday peoples!!! Its been a wonderful week reading the blog and finding polite conversation is still possible here!
I agree with you, with the exception of some of the one-sided rants earlier today from Mrs. RepupLady, Chilao, Voice of Reason, and Zeke. No one is ever going to convince me that one party is all good, and the other all bad.
How true, Truth—but we also must admit the mistakes of our past involvements in promoting rogues, juntas and despots.
Personally, I’m not so sure how much value these retro-active apologies carry. Did it really mean much when Pope John Paul “apologized” for the past egregious actions of the Catholic Church several years ago? Ditto for the SBC apology a few year’s back for their support of racism through the years. WOld it really make a big difference if the US COngress officially apologized for slavery in our country. Sorry to be a little cynical, Lyrazel, but lip-service for historical wrong-doing doesn’t mean a lot to me. Nor do I particularly approve of “reparations” for groups that feel they have been wronged. All we can do is make the system fair, and then move forward, IMO. Otherwise, we will be stuck with permanent forms of “affirmative action”, which keep us from all being on the same playing field together as equals.
By NYer
August 22, 2008 3:09 PM | Link to this
USinUK,
you are not the only gemini on the blog… (wink)
By Bruno
August 22, 2008 3:18 PM | Link to this
you are not the only gemini on the blog… (wink)
Sounds like we’ve got a bunch of Geminis and Aquariuses on board, with me being the lone Virgo Our long-lost friend Monica is an Aries. (Where are you, Monica?) Our long-lost friend jack is a Leo. Did I miss any other signs?
By So
August 22, 2008 3:18 PM | Link to this
search “kerry shot kid in the back” at google. 26 or 27 is pretty old for a kid in anybody’s culture.
By Truth
August 22, 2008 3:21 PM | Link to this
USinUK
There is now an electric sports roadster … check out teslamotors.
I’ve seen a piece on that. 200+mph and it looks soooo good. There are several DeLorean type car makers out there that are building monster cars. Could that name be taken from Testa Rossa , the hot as hell FERRARI that dominated the car world during the 70s and 80s?
The only Lambo I really didn’t like was the Countach and that was because it was a thrown together piece of junk that was built only to beat out the Ferrari Testa Rossa for the world’s fastest production car. The seats weren’t even adjustable. The Ferrari was a real car with air, radio and ADJUSTABLE SEATS!!!
There’s something about a Ferrari. The sound is like no other car. I have only driven a few, but they just seem to be a living thing that you are trying to hold back. It’s like a race horse that loves to run.
It’s like being a Tennessee Volunteeer fan. I know Florida has a great team. But that don’t mean that I am rushing out to buy a gator tee shirt.
By Bruno
August 22, 2008 3:26 PM | Link to this
Ooops, I forgot to include you, Truth, you unbalanced Libra you!
By Truth
August 22, 2008 3:30 PM | Link to this
Lyrazel
Truth—but we also must admit the mistakes of our past involvements in promoting rogues, juntas and despots.
It is a constant tap dance. Ho Chi Menh was a great ally in WWII. He was a great Japanese killer. All of that nasty stuff that he did to us, he perfected in WWII. Saddam? What a mess. You never know who’s going to end up being a bad guy.
But our choices are few. Close the door and live in our own paradise while the world is screaming outside, or wade into the mess.
Personally, I want a 60 foot, tri-mast and a good radio (and a Barrett 50 Cal hidden underneath.)
By Bruno
August 22, 2008 3:33 PM | Link to this
It’s like being a Tennessee Volunteeer fan. I know Florida has a great team. But that don’t mean that I am rushing out to buy a gator tee shirt.
Will someone please sic a Bulldog on this man?
Old joke for the Auburn fans on board:
Q: How do we know that the toothbrush was invented in Alabama?
A: Because if it was invented anywhere else, it would be called a teeth brush.
By Truth
August 22, 2008 3:33 PM | Link to this
Bruno
Unbalanced? Me?
By Truth
August 22, 2008 3:37 PM | Link to this
Bruno
BTW. I now have a chiro as a client. I have found a new respect for the profession, especially the way this guy approaches it.
By Bruno
August 22, 2008 3:38 PM | Link to this
My favorite Jeff Foxworthy joke:
You know you’re a redneck if……your family tree has no branches.
By Truth
August 22, 2008 3:40 PM | Link to this
Bruno
Alabama:
So many recipes.
So few squirrels
.
By JokesOn
August 22, 2008 3:40 PM | Link to this
Thanks again for clarifying your SIL’s situation.. I didn’t mean to impugn her in any way.
What I like about you is that you always make it apparent that there may be a misunderstanding and are seeking clarification. If I was saying what you thought, I would agree with you totally, which is usually the case in misunderstandings. It is only when someone has to be right in their misinterpretation that these things get nasty.
I forgot to answer the question about how the fishing went: Superb. Friends of mine have a house down there (i do not stay in Cancun proper, but in Xcaret) and run a fishing business. So they take us out for free and then we go back to their place and have a huge cookout with a number of the locals and neighbors. We totaled 28 fish over 24” on a 3/4 day trip. Two Mahi’s, 7-10 snook, and some snapper and such. It was a blast of a feast.
By Bruno
August 22, 2008 3:42 PM | Link to this
Unbalanced? Me?
Just kidding you, guy. I gotta get my shots in fast before returning to the “real” world next week. What a drag!
By Bruno
August 22, 2008 3:47 PM | Link to this
BTW. I now have a chiro as a client. I have found a new respect for the profession, especially the way this guy approaches it.
Glad to hear that. It’s tough being at the bottom of the heap in terms of public acceptance. But, with guys running around like the one in CA that JokesOn’s SIL visited, it’s not easy to get the respect we deserve.
Hope your friend who had back surgery is coming along ok.
By JokesOn
August 22, 2008 3:52 PM | Link to this
One of my favorites:
Son and dad are walking down the sidewalk and a pair of dogs humping in the street catch the kid’s attention.
Kid asks: “What are they doing dad?”
Dad replies “You see, the dog on top has hurt paws and the one under is a friend helping him across the street,” since his child is too young for the talk.
Kid replies: “Isn’t that just like a friend” with disgust in his voice.
Dad asks: “How so, son?”
Kid replies: “Just when you need help the most, the friend helping you is really effing you in the a$$.”
By JokesOn
August 22, 2008 3:54 PM | Link to this
Correcttion:
“When you go out of your way to help a friend,they end up effing you…”
By Bruno
August 22, 2008 3:55 PM | Link to this
What I like about you is that you always make it apparent that there may be a misunderstanding and are seeking clarification. If I was saying what you thought, I would agree with you totally, which is usually the case in misunderstandings. It is only when someone has to be right in their misinterpretation that these things get nasty.
Glad to know you thin I have at least one redeeming quality.
Now, if I could only get kimberly to forgive me for being such a scumbag to her, I could go to my grave in peace.
Where are you, kimberly?
By Bruno
August 22, 2008 4:00 PM | Link to this
When you go out of your way to help a friend,they end up effing you…
That is a good one, JokesOn, hadn’t heard it in a while.
BTW, is the plural for Aquarius actually Aquarii?
By Bruno
August 22, 2008 4:23 PM | Link to this
Thanks for a great time blogging this week, everyone. Special thanks to USinUK, Mara, Truth, and JokesOn for the encouragement. Depression really sucks.
By JokesOn
August 22, 2008 4:36 PM | Link to this
Anyone else read this:
MONTGOMERY, Ala. - Alabama, pushed to second in national obesity rankings by deep-fried Southern favorites, is cracking down on state workers who are too fat.
The state has given its 37,527 employees a year to start getting fit — or they’ll pay $25 a month for insurance that otherwise is free.