Woman to Woman

By Gale

August 18, 2008 9:43 AM | Link to this

Who is president has nothing to do with the outcome of this legislation. That Obama is liberal and naive enough to think this is good legislation is only one reason why he would make a bad president. Passing legislation of this sort would be more of congress “fixing” what isn’t broken. It always ends up making a situation worse. People are not so stupid they cannot tell when company “education” is just company propaganda.

By USinUK

August 18, 2008 9:54 AM | Link to this

YAY Michael Phelps!! you done good!!! now, go home to B’more for a little rest and some crabcakes, then start getting ready for London!! woowoo!!!

YAY UK Men’s * Women’s rowing and cycling (they kicked bum and took names!)

yawn for a week of T&F. glad my dad has something to watch and cheer for, but I got nuttin’

oh, and buh-bye Pervez

By Copyleft

August 18, 2008 10:22 AM | Link to this

Wal-Mart is 100% committed to fighting unionization at any cost, and they know (as do most employers) that breaking the law to prevent workers from organizing will go unpunished, as it has for decades now.

Whereas Gale sees Obama’s support for the legislation as “all you need to know,” a similar case could be made for Wal-Mart’s response. The fact that they’re trying to institute propaganda to accompany their anti-union intimidation tactics should tell you all you need to know about whether this is a good idea.

If SEIU’s estimates are valid, this law could tranform the American workplace into one where employees wield actual influence again. Support EFCA, and fight back against the corporate interests trying to keep workers under their thumbs (or heels, if you’re unfortunate enough to work at Wal-Mart).

By Gale

August 18, 2008 10:30 AM | Link to this

The site has been wacky the last week+. Is the webmaster on vacation?

By USinUK

August 18, 2008 10:31 AM | Link to this

Gale -

your heroine, Hillary, supports EFCA

in fact, she is one of the co-sponsors …

By Gale

August 18, 2008 10:36 AM | Link to this

Secret ballots are part of a true democratic process. Making the vote public for or against a union will not help workers and may bring harm to individuals who may not agree with a powerful group, who may not be in the majority.

By Gale

August 18, 2008 10:39 AM | Link to this

RE Hillary. Yes, well, they all have their failings. Obama just has more than most.

By USinUK

August 18, 2008 10:45 AM | Link to this

Gale -

RE Hillary. Yes, well, they all have their failings. Obama just has more than most.

daaaaaaaaaaaang … sour grapes, much?

By Gale

August 18, 2008 11:02 AM | Link to this

I suppose you could call it sour grapes. I would have been happier if Obama had been a VP choice. I was impressed four years ago when he showed up on the stage. But he needs more time in office to develop a track record. Right now, I have no idea what policy he would stand behind. His career has apparently been nothing but a campaign. VP in a good administration would make a guarenteed 16 years of Dems. I’m sure there are folks who would pale at that notion.

By Truth

August 18, 2008 11:12 AM | Link to this

Save money? Maybe. Live better? Not so much.

That slogan is for the thousands and thousands of customers of the average Walmart, not the hundreds of employees, even though most Walmart employees I have talked to like their jobs.

Walmart is a big box store. Last week I ordered a power adapter for a MAC laptop from Best Buy. They sent the wrong thing. I have dealt with their corporate offices three times, now. They are the worst customer service I have ever seen. They can lose a thousand customers today and not feel the difference. And if you talk to their corporate customer service, they will make that perfectly clear.

Going to buy a new computer there? Check the Store Warranty. If you don’t buy the incredibly expensive in-store-warranty, you have ten days. That’s right. If that shinny new computer or that flat screen TV you just bought for hundreds or thousands of bucks breaks in eleven days, don’t bother going back to the store. They will tell you in no uncertain terms to stick it where the sun doesn’t shine. That’s what big box stores do EXCEPT for Walmart. But Best Buy is never mentioned, even though their employees have no better benifits or work conditions than anyone else.

Walmart in non-Union, but if Washington is turned over to the worst and most fascist and dictatorial Congress in the history of our country, we will see the demands of crime infested unions being implemented over the needs of American consumers.

Bend over, America. the democrats are in charge.

By Truth

August 18, 2008 11:31 AM | Link to this

Gale

Good posts. Today, let’s see how many Pro-Obama people even mention the benifits that Walmart brings to a community. What you will hear is how horrible they are that they do not want to be bullied by the liberal media pushing fascist unions.

Several years ago, I was on St. Thomas. They had just opened a K-Mart there. Before that, if you wanted a $400 sexy outfit from Victoria’s secret, it was no problem, but a pair of Hayne’s whitey tighty? That had to be bought from a store on Puerto Rico. A cab driver told me that it gave everyone on the island a 20% pay-raise because it lowered their cost of living that much.

Obama is as far left as it gets. With him in the White House, there will be no opposition to laws that overtly rob individuals of their rights in order to benefit the democratic special interest groups.

By NotBent

August 18, 2008 11:34 AM | Link to this

Bend over, America

I think unions developed here in the USA because the workers ran out of KY and had been bent over by their employers long enough.

And if unions are such a terrible thing, why are China’s workers wanting to get more unionized? Seems the Chinese Capitalistic experiment has made the Chinese worker run out of KY as well.

for you kiddies at home, KY is a lubrication used for bending over. other brands are a-n-a-l-eze.

By Truth

August 18, 2008 11:46 AM | Link to this

Notbent

Unions had their purpose in the 1930s. They have a purpose in China, now. I have been forced to be a member of two different unions. Rip off, as*holes, demanding traveling dues until we had a problem. Then they disappeared. That’s how we dealt with traveling dues. We had a printed list of grievances for our contractor. They would show up demanding dues and we would hand them our grievances, told them to get these grievances straightened out and come on back and we would get them the dues. They never came back, not once in three years of working in the union.

Special interest rule the democrats. And those special interest will control Washington.

This isn’t 1930. This isn’t China, and Unions are corrupt and outdated.

By Truth

August 18, 2008 12:30 PM | Link to this

Copyleft

Do you have any problem with the Unions politically “Re-educating” their members? Or is it just people you disagree with?

That law will definitely change the American workplace. It will become the Chinese work place and we will be left with more unemployment.

Lawyers and union reps. These are the people that democrats think are good for America.

By USinUK

August 18, 2008 12:56 PM | Link to this

Reasons people might be interested in organizing (whether you agree with them or not):

the percentage of workers’ wage which goes to health insurance has increased 61% over the last 6 years

the number of companies including health insurance as a benefit is declining due to rising costs and a shift from a manufacturing economy to a service economy

By Benefits of WalMart

August 18, 2008 1:09 PM | Link to this

To the consumer: Cheap, particle-board furniture and substandard clothing, shoes, and goods made of synthetic fibers and possibly-toxic chemicals, produced in a land halfway around the world by workers with no rights for a barely-survivable wage. Megatons of brightly-colored cheap plastic “toys, souvenirs, and kitchen items” to purchase on impulse with American dollars, though the items fall apart shortly after being acquired and are rarely in use six months later. This of course facilitates the need to replace the cheaply-made items of little use with more of the same, eeking the dimes and dollars from the under-educated American sheeple paycheck by paycheck, rendering the concept of “saving” not only unnecessary, but unlikely. Heavy marketing fuels the oh-so-important advertising industry that relies on a TV-sedated populace whose minds are numbed over generations to believe that what causes smiles and approval on TV commercials is necessary to happiness in the modern world, with the notion that conformity to the cheap crap club might be optional being as outdated as a cordless phone that lasts more than six months.

By Truth

August 18, 2008 1:17 PM | Link to this

USinUk

The biggest problem I have with this bill is the fact that under the majority of circumstances, an employee would need to post an open ballot, letting everyone know how they voted. There is nothing that is good about that. Unions are known for their bullying tactics. This sounds like business as usual for the thugs that run the country’s major unions. Can you explain why this ballot would not be kept private?

A private ballot is one of the basics of democracy. I have read the bill and there seems to be absolutely no reason for this public ballot other than to intimidate people who do not support the Union. Can you think of another reason?

By Gale

August 18, 2008 1:22 PM | Link to this

From what I’ve read and heard, the union-contracted health/retirement benefits have just about bankrupt the American auto industry. Short term good, long term disaster.

By GOB

August 18, 2008 1:45 PM | Link to this

Gale - While healthcare didnt help the American auto industry, making poor quality cars for so long is what nearly killed them.

By Truth

August 18, 2008 1:50 PM | Link to this

Benefits of Walmart

So I guess you have found that all these horribly cheap products are only sold at Walmart.

Please help me out here: If I buy a pair of Lee Jeans at Walmart for $9, they are going to fall apart and help the economy of China, while cursing me with toxic chemicals, but if I buy a pair of Lee jeans from Target, a Union store, for $12 a pair, they will help the American economy, be the good Lee jeans that I always buy and not put off toxic chemicals.

Is this what you are saying?

Does the same apply to the Sony Flat screen I buy at Walmart as opposed to the flat screen I buy at union friendly Best Buy?

How about movies and Cds? Name brand underwear? Toys, games golf and other sports equipment? is your play-station that you bought at target better than my play-station which I bought at Walmart?

I bought a Garmin handheld GPS at Walmart several years ago. Was that handheld a cheap piece of crap that would have been a much better product if I had bought it at AREI for 20% more money?

The Pharmacy products that are sold for much less that other stores. Are those pills different than the ame brands I pay multiples for at a Target Superstore?

The furnature that is sold at Best Buy, Target and office depot are all pressed wood crap. Are you saying that the walmart cheap crap is the only stuff that will fall apart?

I know you won’t answer. Not under your real name, anyway. But it sounds like there are sheeple listening to propaganda, alright. There are sheeple going to foreign owned big box stores and buying the same things they could have paid less for if they had not been sucked in by politically inspired propaganda.

By Truth

August 18, 2008 1:59 PM | Link to this

GOB

I agree about the cars, but the uneducated work force that is making $35/hour to screw in a lightbulb on an assembly line at the Doraville Assembly Plant will be unemployed in two years. The vans that are made there will be made somewhere else, probably Canada or Mexico.

The bad cars will still be made. Just not by the Union members in Doraville. So how’s that Union thing working out in North Atlanta for it’s members?

By Benefits of WalMart

August 18, 2008 2:04 PM | Link to this

To the community: Big-box variety and selection of well-advertised unimportant goods draw consumers in, where they purchase items they used to find at multiple local businesses. Mom & pop shops struggle as mom or pop or both resort to supplemental employment to make up the deficit instead of investing in their own enterprises. The market for variety disappears at the vendor of ultimate variety. As local businesses shutter their doors, employees with fewer options than ever find themselves working for [an average of] less that $10 per hour, less than 40 hours a week, for the matching-smocked middle managers, and less than half receive employer-sponsored health benefits. Families have nowhere to turn then but TAXPAYER SUBSIDIES: either in the form of subsidized health insurance for children, such as PeachCare, or Medicare, Medicaid, or the ongoing standard for America’s working poor: Wait till it gets so bad you need the Emergency Room. Now they must shop at WalMart because they can’t afford furniture made of wood or clothing made from natural fibers. Harmony is restored in the community via managerial intimidation; people who know what’s good for them know not to question corporate policy or else. The good news is there are shifts available in many places 24 hours a day. The bad news is they won’t get enough hours to realize the American dream, something that died for so many when the United States of America became the Corporate States of America, and the legacy of rugged individualism and entreprenureal spirit was strangled in the back alley, behind the room where dirty deals are made, paid for, and sealed, without any input from the people of the community. In lieu of compensation for people of the community for what they’ve lost, the corporate bosses and government counterparts give them the next bext thing: SOMEONE ELSE TO BLAME. “Look! Over there! It’s their fault you’ll never get ahead!” If there’s one thing that flies off the shelves quicker than cheap plastic gizmos at a three for $5 rate, it’s a blame target: Unions, Democrats, Environmentalists, or whomever is crossing the parking lot at the moment. There’s your problem. There’s your blame. You’re welcome.

By Truth

August 18, 2008 2:44 PM | Link to this

Benefits of WalMart

I wasn’t looking for blame. I was looking for answers, which you supplied none.

So now it is the big box stores you have problems with. Mom and pop stores almost never pay their employees well and almost never supply any benifits.

if you want to support a family in America, I would suggest that you try to avoid being a cashier at ANY store. But the obvious question is, can you name a time in American history that being a store cashier was the big paying job that everyone was seeking?

There are answers for Mom and pop stores that want to survive. The number one appliance buyer in the country is not Best Buys. It isn’t even Sears. It is a buyers club for small appliance stores. They make it possible for Nadine’s Appliance to sell that refrigerator cheaper than Best Buys. My entire Kitchen was re-done, buying nothing from a big box. Can you say that?

If you are able to buy real wood furniture, good for you. Most of my furniture is real wood that is either antique or custom made. (Some of it, custom made by me) But most people can’t pay $3,000 for a bed. But whether or not you buy that furniture at Target, Best Buy, Office Depot or Walmart pressed wood is pressed wood. It is all Chinese made crap. So why is Target’s Chinese made crap so much better than Walmart’s Chinese made crap.

Your posts do not give any difference at all between the big box stores except that propaganda dictated bias against Walmart. Give me a reason to go to Target and shun Walmart. So far, I am hearing nothing. Employees are treated no better at Target and the merchandise is generally the same. Target has some great home furnishings, but they cost quite a bit more. But those Lee jeans: why do I need to buy them anywhere except Walmart?

By Gale

August 18, 2008 2:59 PM | Link to this

Truth, you made a point I want to question. Not so long ago, Tennesee made lots of pressed wood products. Has that process been moved to China?

By Gale

August 18, 2008 3:10 PM | Link to this

Oh, and there is another press-wood mfg in Ohio, at least there used to be.

By Truth

August 18, 2008 3:19 PM | Link to this

Gale,

Most furniture has moved to the far east. Some is still made in Tennessee, but the largest American share is made in North Carolina.

I have a client that makes really good wood furniture for bathrooms. Mine is horrible and I am trying to get them to sell me some pieces they don’t want, but they have almost no inventory and their prices, even at my discount is unbelievable. It is great stuff that has layers and layers of acrylic sealers that keep the moisture from messing up the wood. You will not find that kind of stuff at Bed, Bath and Beyond.

I only know the information I made the video from. They say that almost all furniture comes from the far east. That seemed to be a huge change that took place since 2000.

I took my Mom’s old RCA stereo console and installed professional quality JBL speakers and ring radiators. I also unstalled an 18 inch monster woofer for the sub base and put in a Yamaha 50 watt RMS stage amp to drive the sub base. It all runs through a Yamaha home entertainment amp. The old console is solid wood and I used solid wood to seal up the speaker compartments. Wow. The first movie I watched was Pearl Harbor. My neighbor that lives across the street said that his coffee table was shaking. I don’t think you can buy solid wood speakers any more except the really expensive ones.

By Gale

August 18, 2008 3:56 PM | Link to this

Interesting, Truth. I’ve been determined to stop buying press wood, put it together myself furniture for esthetic reasons. However, I guess I should think hard for quality reasons now.

By Bruce

August 18, 2008 4:48 PM | Link to this

Anyone know why so many business starting going overseas? I think it was unions. Unions started the decline of the American ecomony and hasn’t let up yet.

Unions demanded higher wages, which increased the price of their product. When the next business in the chain had to pay higher for that product they increased the price of their product and so on and so on. I blame unions for so many business leaving the American worker behind to fend for themselves and going overseas. JMO!!!!

Anyone know the income/net worth of the Union bosses?

By Throwback

August 18, 2008 5:11 PM | Link to this

Anyone know the income/net worth of the Corporate America bosses/CEOs?

By Penelope 3

August 18, 2008 5:45 PM | Link to this

According to Business Week, the average CEO of a major corporation made 42 times the pay of a typical American factory worker in 1980. By 1990, that ratio had more than doubled 85 times and almost quintupled again to a staggering 419 times in 1998. If that rate of exponential growth were to continue, the average CEO would make the salary equivalent of more than 150,000 American factory workers in 2050.

But of course it’s those DANG UNIONS demanding health insurance and sick pay that caused American manufacturing jobs to disappear. Hey, maybe we should fix the broken health care/insurance system, so the average worker could afford to see a doctor, huh? You think? Who’s with me? Oh wait…. That might cut into the perks and bonuses of the CEOs of the insurance companies, and then they wouldn’t have as much money in their pockets to trickle down. DANG UNIONS! It’s their fault the CEOs have to purchase cars, clothes, shoes, electronics, boats, and fine beverages made in OTHER countries!

By Truth

August 18, 2008 5:49 PM | Link to this

Gale,

Most everything is pressed, now. But it is the quality that is the real issue. Of course, pressed wood is just compressed saw dust and chips so real wood furniture uses real hardwoods. Paper companies claim to plant so many trees but they are all lob lolly pine trees that grow full size in a decade. Cut down an oak and you have killed 100 years of growth.

I have bought a bunch of used furniture and either re-done it or had it redone. All hardwoods, but didn’t cost an old growth tree that wasn’t cut down 40 years ago. I bought my son a coffee and end table from the Salvation Army Thrift store on Marietta. Solid wood, tempered glass panels and it cost about 60 bucks. I spent a few hours sanding and staining and sealed it with a good acrylic sealing compound. He gets an unusual piece of furniture that his old dad put a little love into it. It doesn’t look like something new from Akia, but it also doesn’t look like something new and CHEAP from Akia.

Even used furniture might be expensive, but it will last a long time and it is something that has some character. And it beats the dickins out of that cardboard / pressed wood stuff you get at the big boxes. If you find a 18th century piece, don’t try to restore it. But most of the stuff made before about 1985 is good solid wood When I divorced, my wife got the dinning room table which was a solid teak table that was made in Japan. It had been very low for setting on the floor on cushions, and it sat on this really nice, curved piece of teak. I ordered some pretty big chunks of teak and extended the base to make the table the proper height. She had done a lot of the work on that table and wanted it. It is a really beautiful piece of furniture.

By Youll bend allright

August 18, 2008 6:02 PM | Link to this

Macallan 25. Because Republicans don’t have to drink domestic swill.

By Truth

August 18, 2008 6:15 PM | Link to this

Penelope3

Ever been to the rust belt? You know, all those North Eastern cities that were not in free work states. How’s those medical benifits working out for those people?

If the board of directors allows the salary of the CEO to impact the operations of a company, the company is too stupid to exist. Are you really trying to compare the damage a union does to a company to a single person’s salary? You HAVE to do better than that.

So the question is: are you mad at the CEOs simply because they make so much money? This is like the windfall profits tax. They are just going to pass it on to us, but won’t it feel good THINKING we are really sticking it to the oil companies.

By Hilary Smith

August 18, 2008 8:54 PM | Link to this

When it comes to unionization, the secret ballot sounds like it protects worker choice, but it really doesn’t. In order for a secret ballot to occur, employers must be made aware that their employees are considering unionization. There is then a waiting period during which employers, in the vast majority of cases, hire union-busters, meet with employees one-on-one in order to intimidate and dissuade them from voting for the union, and frequently attempt to bribe employees with raises and other favors in order to secure “no” votes. Finally, after all of this, a secret ballot is held wherein the union effort is often defeated. Pro-union employees regularly lose their jobs. Many states prohibit this type of employer retaliation but rarely enforce penalties in any meaningful way. If this offends your sense of freedom and liberty, it should. Employees ought to be free to form unions without interference, and if the secret ballot were held off-site without employer meddling, the secret ballot would be great. But right now that’s not how it works. The Employee Free Choice Act allows worker’s unions to be formed without threats or intimidation from employers. With the Employee Free Choice Act, if a majority of workers sign union cards during a given year, then they are free to form a union which must be recognized by their employer. This is the way it should be because this is America. Does anyone else find it interesting that conservatives, who consistently favor business interests, not working-class interests, are suddenly so concerned about a worker’s right to decide in private whether or not to form a union? The Employee Free Choice Act will give Americans real privacy when it comes to unionization. This is the sort of legislation that has been sorely missing from our political landscape over the last decade as New Deal programs have been dismantled and the everyman has fallen into destitution. If you are reading this post, do the American workingman a favor, pick up a pen and write to your congressperson encouraging him or her to vote “yes” on the Employee Free Choice Act. GO UNION LABOR!

By Truth

August 19, 2008 12:04 AM | Link to this

Hillary Smith

Why the public ballots? Great speech, but you gave absolutely no reason for the most controversial part of the legislation.

*Does anyone else find it interesting that conservatives, who consistently favor business interests, not working-class interests, are suddenly so concerned about a worker’s right to decide in private whether or not to form a union? *

Typical liberal. You say that Republicans are whatever they need to be in order to avoid addressing the most un American and typical thug-Union point of the legislation.

Again, why the public ballots if not to intimidate employees?

The Employee Free Choice Act will give Americans real privacy when it comes to unionization.

Please explain this. Explain how Union thugs looking over an employee’s shoulder while they are voting gives Americans privacy. I know you won’t, You have avoided all questions today, but have kept on preaching, no matter how ridicules your sermons are beginning to appear.

I’m not going to argue about whether Unions are good or bad. I’ve been to Detroit. I’ve seen the pathetic Michigan pleas for new businesses to locate there. Who wants to locate their businesses where they are promised to be forced to close because of unrelenting and unreasonable demands for people with no education and no desire to put out any extra effort to make that business succeed.

I’m sure you will never even attempt to explain why this “Free Choice” requires Union thugs knowing the way each employee votes. You would rather preach. You are a perfect example of what is going to happen after Obama takes office. There will be no reasoning. If it is for one of the dims many, many special interests, there will be no consideration of individual’s rights.

As I said before: Bend over America, the Democrats are in charge.

By issacreid

August 19, 2008 5:28 AM | Link to this

I disagree with unions, as I’ve worked for a unionized company and it did promote laziness. That being said, Shaunti’s column is (as usual) dead wrong. It is not the responsibility of employers to educate their employees. Obviously they are going to slant the information toward their own agendas. Shaunt’s columns never make any sense.

By spankmonkey

August 19, 2008 7:33 AM | Link to this

Most of you people here are idiots. It’s as if the last 8 years didn’t happen.

I especially love this one:

“Walmart in non-Union, but if Washington is turned over to the worst and most fascist and dictatorial Congress in the history of our country, we will see the demands of crime infested unions being implemented over the needs of American consumers.

Bend over, America. the democrats are in charge. “

OMG… It’s gonna be hard to top the fools we have running the country right now (which above mentioned nutsack obviously voted for, twice), but this nutsack has decided that not only are the DEMS gonna win in November, but that suddenly crime infested unions are more dangerous than the current corruption (crime) infested oil companies, and big businesses that own the current admnistration.

At least when the unions take hold of the country that means more of my money will go towards providing health care to lower income workers, instead of providing golden parachutes to executives and thier cronys… Which do you you retards think is more beneficial to the country. More people having healthcare or more executives being given multi million dollar bonuses to leave the company.

Wait a minute… Jim Wooten is that you posting here on this blog???

By USinUK

August 19, 2008 8:54 AM | Link to this

go team GB!!!

go Shawn Johnson!!!

**go women’s track!!! I couldn’t run this fast even if something was chasing me

c’mon guys … for just a few more days, can’t we all just get along and watch in wonder and awe as our fellow peeps show us not only the potential of the human body and spirit, but also in most cases, true class in competition

By Gale

August 19, 2008 8:57 AM | Link to this

Spankmonkey talks about the increasing gap between the very rich and the very poor. Policies in the country have brought this about. The top is so focussed on short term goals that businesses are destroyed in the struggle for quarterly gains and bonuses. The lower class has been destroyed by meaningless welfare programs that have a something for nothing basis. Those have raised a generation ( or two ) of people with a I deserve it because that guy has it and I should have it too attitude.

In that sense, the spiritual among us can point the the failings of materialism. We have failed to prove the benefits of long term goals. If we can’t have it now, somebody should give it to us. Note the many people who have given up on saving for retirement and hope to win the lottery before they retire. Any politician who claims to have plans for the working poor, bases the plan on handouts. The money comes from someone. Oh, tax the rich. The rich always find ways to pass the tax elsewhere. Face it. The rich always get richer. Handouts do not lead to an end of poverty.

Unions may still have a place in the American work force. They need to learn from history. Union right in any case is wrong. Lazy or incompetent workers should not be protected just because they are union members. Excessive wages and benefits that force a facility to lay off, close or move are wrong. Forcing all workers in a facility to join a union because a simple majority have been convinced or coerced into accepting a union is just as wrong as an employer coercing them to not accept a union. A simple majority signing a petition amounts to a public vote. It is wrong.

By Gale

August 19, 2008 9:04 AM | Link to this

Tell me, USinUK, what is your opinion of the Chinese gymnist who may not be old enough to be in the competition? My opinion is if she can compete at this level, let her compete. It is up to her parents to decide if she should be in the competition.

By AnswerMan

August 19, 2008 9:13 AM | Link to this

Jim Wooten is that you posting here on this blog

Jim Wooten comes across at least as intelligent AND he can SPELL as well.

so nope, can’t be Jim Wooten.

By USinUK

August 19, 2008 9:20 AM | Link to this

Gale -

Tell me, USinUK, what is your opinion of the Chinese gymnist who may not be old enough to be in the competition?

my opinion? rules are rules - and they’re usually there for a reason. even though the child is (obviously) quite talented, I would question what such a difficult sport is doing to her little body. Most young girls who compete at this level don’t go through a normal puberty - it’s usually delayed until she’s 16 or 17 (or whenever she starts putting on a little more body fat). That can have serious implications on her health/fertility in later life.

if she is the 12-13 years old that she looks, that means she would be 16-ish at the London Olympics - that’s not over-the-hill, yet, even in gymnastics.

you talk of short-term goals? this is a prime example of not thinking about the long-term implications for the child’s health and welfare.

By Truth

August 19, 2008 9:22 AM | Link to this

spankmonkey

OMG… It’s gonna be hard to top the fools we have running the country right now (which above mentioned nutsack obviously voted for, twice),

The fools that are running the country now are democrats, Einstein. Did you sleep through the 2006 Congressional elections? You remember 2006. Gas was well under 3 bucks a gallon.

but this nutsack has decided that not only are the DEMS gonna win in November, but that suddenly crime infested unions are more dangerous than the current corruption (crime) infested oil companies,

So you want the same people that have ran cities like Detroit to run the entire country. I see. Do us all a favor. Move to Detroit. Be unemployed and even more pathetic than you are appearing here and leave the rest of us alone. We like having jobs.

Since the democrats have held Congress since 2006, the oil companies have made more money than they ever had and you think that it is all those evil Republicans. LOL!! You really need to stop getting your news from Comedy Central.

At least when the unions take hold of the country that means more of my money will go towards providing health care to lower income workers,

Really? Is that what it means? How is the health care benefits working out for Detroit or any Northern City that allowed Unions to take over? So you want Union thugs to be in charge of health care. How about if they are just in charge of your health care?

instead of providing golden parachutes to executives and thier cronys… Which do you you retards think is more beneficial to the country.

If those executives lost all their money, would you feel better about yourself?

More people having healthcare or more executives being given multi million dollar bonuses to leave the company.

I’ll bet you have left many companies without any bonuses.

By Truth

August 19, 2008 9:29 AM | Link to this

Answerman

Is this going to be your name today? It’s a really good name. Maybe you should actually stay with this name.

See, when you post under one name all the time, people seem to give credibility to what you post. When you are not strong enough to post under a consistent name, everybody understands that you live in fear of standing behind the statements you make so you have no credibility. That’s probably why no one ever answers your post except me who just likes to make fun of you.

How about answering this as “observation guy”. How about adopting a very applicable name like “half-witted coward”. Now THAT’s a good name for you.

By Copyleft

August 19, 2008 9:35 AM | Link to this

Truth and Bruce are right: we need to JOIN in the workers’ race to the bottom, not fight it! American workers need to accept unsafe and unhealthy working conditions, pitiable wages, and no benefits in order to be “competitive” with their third-world counterparts.

Any attempt to stand up for ourselves will just result in the corporations leaving to open more overseas sweatshops. And we can’t let that happen! The free market has spoken, and we must obey.

OR…

We could remember who’s really in charge. US, not the corporate CEOs. Not the markets (rigged though they are). WE decide how corporations are permitted to operate, and whether they’re permitted to exist at all. WE do, not them.

Conservatives want to turn the clock back? I say we REALLY turn the clock back… to the first Progressive Era, when workers rose up and demanded fair and equitable treatment. When union membership was on a part with other industrialized nations, the income gap was narrow, and everybody knew that corporations were our servants, not our masters.

When did we get so powerless and frightened that we took corporations’ threats seriously, rather than laughing at them and revoking their charters? If a lobbyist announces, “We want tax breaks and special favors and no enforcement of safety or environmental regs, or we’re moving overseas!”, we should laugh in their faces and eliminate their access to the American marketplace, not grovel and agree!

It’s sad that American workers have become so beaten and so frightened that they honestly think there’s no other way to do things. Sure, unions have drawbacks too—every system where power is involved needs safeguards. And they can’t be run the same way they were back then. But we still need them, or somethiing very much like them, to rein in the disparity that currently exists between CEOs and serfs.

By Truth

August 19, 2008 9:38 AM | Link to this

USinUK

I think the rules may have something to do with bone hardness.

Kids get what is called “green stick” fractures because their bones will bend. That seems like it would be a huge advantage to a gymnast. They had a picture of the Chinese girl on Yahoo this morning and she looks like she is 7 years old. I’m sure she is older than that, but it is hard to believe that she is 16.

Mark Spitz was on Fox and Friends this morning. He is older than me. Damn I wish I looked like that.

By Gale

August 19, 2008 9:50 AM | Link to this

I guess I figure that maybe 13 year old gymnist is going to be training that hard whether she is allowed into the competition or not. I accept that hard training at a young age has an impact, but I doubt the age rule will change the actions of the competition driven. Consider all the althletes that take banned substances in the drive for winning. They have to know there are consequences to their body, ignoring the consequences of getting caught. Does a 13 year old have the maturity to make those decisions? Doubtful. Probably the parents don’t have the option, given we are talking about China. So, maybe you are right, the rule is important and it will deter some. If the government takes part in a deception and provides documentation to prove age, what can we do?

By USinUK

August 19, 2008 9:51 AM | Link to this

Truth -

Kids get what is called “green stick” fractures because their bones will bend.

eesh. bones aren’t built to bend.

They had a picture of the Chinese girl on Yahoo this morning and she looks like she is 7 years old. I’m sure she is older than that, but it is hard to believe that she is 16.

that’s the one I’m talking about … there is no flippin way she’s as old as they’re saying she is.

Mark Spitz was on Fox and Friends this morning. He is older than me. Damn I wish I looked like that.

My brother, sister and I were all involved in our local swim team when Mark Spitz and John Naber and Shirley Babashoff and Diana Nyad were all Big Names … gods, they are (at least to me) still, to this day.

By Copyleft

August 19, 2008 9:56 AM | Link to this

As for the “secret ballot” argument… I applaud the right-wing’s clever use of a false analogy, and on such short notice. Of course, the rules for electing senators have nothing to do with how workers can organize for collective bargaining. I can only assume you’d be equally opposed to petitions, American Idol phone polls, mall surveys, and any other method of collecting opinions on those same grounds, to preserve this Cornerstone of Our Democracy. (Funny how right-wing loons only mention the “d” word when they’re trying to screw regular Americans.)

I imagine your family meetings must be fun, too: “Sorry, Daddy… I know you wanted to save that money for our college fund, but we’ve got a little thing here in America called ‘voting.’ Off to Disneyland!”

By Truth

August 19, 2008 9:59 AM | Link to this

Copyleft

o the first Progressive Era, when workers rose up and demanded fair and equitable treatment.

And this is the problem. Many liberals just don’t live in reality. When workers rose up was when Upton Sinclair was writing books. Where do you work that employees live in such fear?

It’s sad that American workers have become so beaten and so frightened that they honestly think there’s no other way to do things.

If you work where this is going on, please post the name of your employer. I’ve got connections in the media. We’ll put that SOB in front of a camera.

Here’s a point that I don’t think you ever consider. Most people are not miserable. People who hate their jobs and stay with that job have no one to blame but themselves. Most people enjoy their lives. You seem like a very unhappy fellow. Don’t think that everyone is as miserable as you .

It is very simple. Look at the parts of the country that Unions had a huge amount of influence. Those place make up what is called the rust belt because of all the factories that are rusting away because they have been closed for years.

Many of those people that lost their jobs because of unrelenting, unreasonable demands by Unions have moved South. Now, you want the same people that ruined the most productive areas of our country to have control over ALL of our country. What makes you think that it will work all over the country when it didn’t work in the rust belt?

By ray abernathy

August 19, 2008 10:00 AM | Link to this

all the diversionary chatter about the employee free choice act doesn’t address the question posed by this article, i.e., should employers be allowed to “politically educate” employers. of course they shouldn’t. if an employer wants to tout a candidate or a ballot proposal, or oppose same, the big boss should open up his or her mansion and invite employees to a big barbecue. that way, the workers will at least get fed something other than right wing, anti-union propsganda. and they’ll get to see the kind of lifestyle they are providing for executives. visit me at www.rayabernathy.com

By Truth

August 19, 2008 10:07 AM | Link to this

USinUK

I don’t know if the bending bone thing is the reason, but I do know that kids get those kind of fractures. That kid looks creepy. 16? No way. Of course the Chinese government has produced her birth certificate that claims she is legal age. Wow, a document from the Chinese. Now there’s proof. LOL!!

My GF in high school was so hot for Mark Spitz. She had the poster with him standing with all seven medals around his neck. When they came to him on FOX this morning, all the people on the set had cheesy mustaches on, including Spitz and the female anchor. Seemed like a good guy. i’m just amazed that he wasn’t in China for the breaking of his record.

By USinUK

August 19, 2008 10:08 AM | Link to this

Gale -

I accept that hard training at a young age has an impact, but I doubt the age rule will change the actions of the competition driven.

you’re probably right to a degree, but anything that will help at least one kid be healthy is the right thing to do, I think.

Consider all the althletes that take banned substances in the drive for winning. They have to know there are consequences to their body, ignoring the consequences of getting caught.

I don’t think they do - especially teenagers who are doping up for high school ball. You’d (not you-you, but the universal you) would be hard-pressed to prove to me that they have any idea of what steroids will do to them 10-20 years down the line.

If the government takes part in a deception and provides documentation to prove age, what can we do?

Put into the glare of the harsh light of day. In the 1972 Olympics, the US women dominated the pool … hif FF to the 1976 Olympics and all of the sudden the Chinese women came from nowhere to dominate. And, by women, I mean a lot of people who had very deep voices and muscle development that was abnormal. Doping? probably - and by starting to bring it into question, you raise it as an issue. The same thing with the age of competitors.

By Gale

August 19, 2008 10:09 AM | Link to this

Copyleft, I guess you are one of the simple majority pure democracy folks that keep me from marrying my partner of 16 years because she is the wrong sex. I want to vote on your marriage now.

Pure democracy does not work because simple majority often comes down to mob rule.

By Archie

August 19, 2008 10:14 AM | Link to this

USinUk,you’re a journalism major well that’s one more thing we have in common. My first degree is in journalism. As for the topic I say yes but I think you have to set some rules otherwise things could get out of hand and people no longer have the right to vote as they choose.

By Truth

August 19, 2008 10:15 AM | Link to this

Ray Abernathy

they’ll get to see the kind of lifestyle they are providing for executives.

Why are so many posts from liberals like this? Are we not supposed to succeed? is the country supposed to be a gray mono-scape of the same people making the same income? Do you really want to control what others make? Instead of spending the time to put together yet another liberal web site, why don’t you set yourself up some little internet business where you won’t envy successful people so much. Put back a little money. Take a nice vacation. Be happy.

By Truth

August 19, 2008 10:21 AM | Link to this

USinUk

The same thing with the age of competitors.

There has to be some sort of test for age but I have never heard of one. Have you?

By USinUK

August 19, 2008 10:22 AM | Link to this

Truth -

She had the poster with him standing with all seven medals around his neck.

we ALL did!!! (ah, yes, the pre-waxing days … when men were the Missing Link)

Seemed like a good guy. i’m just amazed that he wasn’t in China for the breaking of his record.

yeah, I was surprised about that, too - especially given the fact that he was Phelp’s hero.

Wow, a document from the Chinese. Now there’s proof. LOL!

AMEN, my friendly!!! :-D

By Bruce

August 19, 2008 10:27 AM | Link to this

Of course unions wan people to think its all about insurance and sick leave, but I think if you will look, and be honest, you will see that every strike (or threat of a strike) was about the money. Higher wages!!!!! Just because the CEO of a company makes 6 figures doesn’t mean every employee should also. That’s just stupid!

Corperations are in the business to make money, plan and simple. When those lower level workers took the job no one promised them they would be making 100,000 in a year or two. No one promised that their pay would be closer in line with the top boss. The company said: heres what we expect you to do and here is how much we will pay you and these are your benefits.

Anybody see what happened between USA and China last night in baseball? Something like that could start WWIII.

By USinUK

August 19, 2008 10:27 AM | Link to this

Gale -

Copyleft, I guess you are one of the simple majority pure democracy folks that keep me from marrying my partner of 16 years because she is the wrong sex. I want to vote on your marriage now.

boy, are you attacking the wrong person on that particular issue.

Pure democracy does not work because simple majority often comes down to mob rule.

why that argument doesn’t work in this case - you do not HAVE to join the union just because your workplace is unionized.

By USinUK

August 19, 2008 10:31 AM | Link to this

Truth -

There has to be some sort of test for age but I have never heard of one. Have you?

cut them in half and count the rings? ;-)

teeth are one way, looking at bone density or development via an X-Ray is another, I think (getting back to your green tree theory - from what I remember of biology, the middle of the bone is where you grow, so looking at how developed/solid that is would be a fairly good indicator, I would think)

By USinUK

August 19, 2008 10:46 AM | Link to this

Bruce -

you will see that every strike (or threat of a strike) was about the money. Higher wages!!!!! Just because the CEO of a company makes 6 figures doesn’t mean every employee should also. That’s just stupid!

no. no. no. no. NO.

Strikes have been about wages, yes - but no one working the line at GM or Lockheed or any other plant thinks they should make the same as the CEO - and only a nitwit would say that’s why they’re striking.

what they are striking about is that they are, in fact, LOSING money by having a greater % of their pay going to health care (see my link above to the Kaiser Family Foundation study which shows that people have seen a 61% increase in their deduction for insurance).

don’t believe me? look up stories about the most recent Auto Workers strikes, the strike at Sikorsky, etc. it’s not about becoming rich - it’s about not losing ground.

By Truth

August 19, 2008 10:49 AM | Link to this

USinUk

When you cut them in half, it makes it so hard to get them back together in time for the trials.

Since age is a hard rule, it looks like they would test. but the problem might be that different people age differently.

And since gymnastics postpone puberty, I’m sure it does other things to developing body parts. But with all the genetic research, looks like there could be a definitive test.

By RighttoWork?

August 19, 2008 10:57 AM | Link to this

I think what the anti-union people are saying is that the American workforce should turn itself into Third World Peasants. Just look at the auto industry in the South. The automakers had to go to right to work(anti-union) states to get uneducated, marginally employable employees in order to compete with a ThirdWorld workforce.

By USinUK

August 19, 2008 10:58 AM | Link to this

Truth -

When you cut them in half, it makes it so hard to get them back together in time for the trials.

remember my motto:

if duct tape don’t fix it, WD-40 will

By Gale

August 19, 2008 10:58 AM | Link to this

CopyLeft, If USinUK is right and gay marriage has your support, I’m sorry to use that example. Whenever people bring up the ‘majority rules’ issue, it pushes my personal hot button.

My only experiences with unions are from Ohio and Michigan, with Michigan by far the worse. It a shop was union, all employees were union or had no job there. If it is different elsewhere, I stand corrected.

By Truth

August 19, 2008 11:05 AM | Link to this

Righttowork

The automakers had to go to right to work(anti-union) states to get uneducated, marginally employable employees in order to compete with a ThirdWorld workforce.

You do understand that the auto factories in the South are also United Auto Workers Union controlled, don’t you?

You will need to find another reason to be a bigot about the South.

By USinUK

August 19, 2008 11:07 AM | Link to this

Truth -

And since gymnastics postpone puberty, I’m sure it does other things to developing body parts

in all seriousness, maybe not genetic testing, but I do think that a physician could judge the age of a person based on a bone xray, even accounting for strenuous training.

By Gale

August 19, 2008 11:07 AM | Link to this

Bruce, So, are union workers generally in favor of universal health care?

By Truth

August 19, 2008 11:12 AM | Link to this

Gale

You are right. Union shops don’t hire non-union people. To a Union supporter, it is a mortal sin to fire a Union instigator for taking time at the workplace to indoctrinate their fellow workers. However there is nothing more sacred than the union’s right to discriminate against people who do not walk the goose step.

By Einstein wants to know!

August 19, 2008 11:17 AM | Link to this

“The fools that are running the country now are democrats, Einstein.”

Really? What change from the previous 12 years of Republican dominance of Congress, and 8 years of executive “new and special” powers have they effected? The evil dictatorial Pelosi took impeachment off the table before she even fondled the gavel. The Dems either haven’t had the votes to force any real issues, or they haven’t had the STONES to even stand up and try. Filibuster, anyone? How about prenteding to be pre-‘07 Republicans and threatening to filibuster? Did that happen?

Are the lobbyists and big corporate execs no longer actually making the decisions for our Congress? Do billionaire foreigners Rupert Murdoch and that Moon guy suddenly have no more power in America? Have the Dems enacted ANY change at all? Please do tell!!!

By Truth

August 19, 2008 11:19 AM | Link to this

USinUK

It does seem funny that an anthropologist can find a fossilized skeleton that is 100,000 years old and tell the age of the person within a year or two, but we have an apparent 9 year old standing on the Gold platform at the Olympics.

I just went to the NBC website to see if I could find any video of the Chinese / American baseball game. I had never been there. They have a section called Leno’s garage. OMG!! The cars!!! I just watched a very good piece on Briggs Cunningham car which he won the 24 hours of Sebring in 1953. Leno drove the actual car. My faith in NBC is at least partially restored.

By USinUK

August 19, 2008 11:28 AM | Link to this

Truth -

It does seem funny that an anthropologist can find a fossilized skeleton that is 100,000 years old and tell the age of the person within a year or two, but we have an apparent 9 year old standing on the Gold platform at the Olympics.

not to mention, give you a good idea of what their diet was and how hard they worked …

They have a section called Leno’s garage. OMG!! The cars!!!

did you ever watch American Hotrod on one of the cable stations?? while Boyd Coddington built an amazing business, BOY did that show make him look like a complete a-wipe (not to mention, it made him look WAY unstable).

but, the cars, they were sweet.

By RightToWork?

August 19, 2008 11:31 AM | Link to this

BMW - SC - NO union. Honda - AL - NO union. Mercedes- AL - NO union. Hyundai - AL - HAS a union.

Yep, the UAW sure controls those southern auto plants.

By USinUK

August 19, 2008 11:33 AM | Link to this

Truth and Gale -

You are right. Union shops don’t hire non-union people.

that’s not necessarily so. not all of the plant workers in GA (speaking specifically of Lockheed) are union members.

the same with actors - while screen actors are requires to join SAG once they’ve done 2 movies (credited), stage actors are not required to join Actors Equity to continue working on the stage. So, why do people join, anyway? because you get access to healthcare and they make sure the actors aren’t rehearsed and/or performed to death. Not to mention, fair pay.

By Truth

August 19, 2008 11:37 AM | Link to this

Einstein wants to know

Democrats voted their party into Congress to change the country in 2006. So how long can we expect the excuses? How do you like the changes so far?

It’s very simple. (Maybe even for you) Corporate lobbies don’t give large amounts of money to the party that is not in power. They give the money to the Party that can get something done.

if you think when the Republicans left Washington that the lobbies left with them, I just don’t have the time or the inclination to educate you.

Better go with another name. You have tried three so far today and you keep sounding dumb and dumber.

By Einstein wants to know!!

August 19, 2008 11:51 AM | Link to this

Thanks for the insults, sparky, but I only posted once today, and you didn’t answer my question. I don’t think the spineless weenie Democrats are “running” anything, but if I’m wrong, maybe you’ll zip your yap long enough to let someone else provide some examples of leadership and change?

Oh yes, and if someone doesn’t agree with everything YOU say, then according to your infinite wisdom, they’re just dumb or dumber. Got it. Is there anyone reading this who does NOT grasp that little tidbit? Anyone? Okay, I think we all got it. Constant regurgitation is not necessary. We know exactly how you feel, Sparky. Thanks for sharing.

By Truth

August 19, 2008 12:04 PM | Link to this

USinUK

I am in the middle of hiring a spokesperson for an infomercial. I sent both Union and non-Union people to the client. The Union guys are the better ones, but the maintenance of the talent account has just cost them another job. My client does not want to deal with tracking every time the piece is used and sending the guy a substantial check for years and years. I have to agree with them. The guy’s not Al Pacino. His presence in the piece will not ad any credibility other than just professionalism, which is expected anyway.

The guy they are looking at will charge a couple of grand for a day’s work and that will be the end of it. When i finish producing the thing, I will get my final check and that will be the end of it.

I know a local producer that is always shooting in New York. He never uses union crews. He just bribes the right people. It is a corrupt system that is so close to organized crime that often there is no line between the two. It has been like that whenever i have worked close to the union. I was forced to be a member twice because I wasn’t working in a free work state. (back in the 70s) as a musician. They were thugs and they did nothing for anyone.

I just don’t get this love that people have for unions. I buy my own health care.

By RightToWork?

August 19, 2008 12:08 PM | Link to this

Sparky, don’t feel bad, he didn’t address this comment from me either, so don’t hold your breath.

I think what the anti-union people are saying is that the American workforce should turn itself into Third World Peasants.

By RightToWork

August 19, 2008 12:11 PM | Link to this

that was addressed to Einstein, must still have July 4th on the mind.

By USinUK

August 19, 2008 12:18 PM | Link to this

Truth -

My client does not want to deal with tracking every time the piece is used and sending the guy a substantial check for years and years

so, in other words, your client wants to make money off the guy’s work for years and years, but he doesn’t want to pay for it.

that’s why unions got their start and that’s why so many people want them today - ensure that the little guy doesn’t get the painful of the deal. nothing wrong with that.

a friend of mine just opened a bakery in the SEIU building in DC - part of her lease required that she use union labor for the build-out. at first, she balked because they came in nearly twice the cost of the other guys, but, when all was said and done, she was ecstatic about the quality of their work, their professionalism, and their knowledge about their trade.

ya get what you pay for. maybe not always, but most of the time.

and, as for the folks who say that the unions are the cause of the decline of the US auto industry, may I point you to this article … people aren’t buying US cars because they’re happier with the quality of European and Japanese cars. Both of which are heavily unionized.

By Truth

August 19, 2008 12:22 PM | Link to this

USinUK

Never saw American Hot Rod. I used to love a show that was on the history channel called Cars or Automobiles or something like that. I haven’t seen many that were good. Most seem to have some lunatic as a host. Maybe Leno makes the NBC stuff so good. It’s like a buddy telling me about a car. He is like a kid when he gets around those things and I think that is the key.

I did some work for an exotic car maker a few years ago. I met lots of owners. They were all multi-millionaires and they acted like it, that is until they were around those cars. Then they became kids. Ask them a question about their car and they will go on and on and the never stopped smiling.

Some guys buy exotics for the prestige. True enthusiasts make fun of those people. I have always wanted a Ferrari. Now all but a few are way out of a normal person’s price range. Enzo Ferrari said that his biggest regret is that the people who can afford his cars are rarely the people he designed them for. He designed them for people who love his cars. I am one of those people, but I doubt that I will ever have one.

BTW. I found a perfect 308 GTS (Like Magnum’s Car) for 30,000. I tried to get a loan for it, but I had just upgraded my editor and my credit was getting thin. If you have to get a loan for the Ferrari, you can’t afford the Ferrari.

By Truth

August 19, 2008 12:26 PM | Link to this

Sideline snipers.

New policy. Since you do not have the stones to post under a constant name, no more responses from me. I never know who I am addressing and i’m tired of the games.

Grow a spine. Come on back. Give it a shot.

By USinUK

August 19, 2008 12:37 PM | Link to this

Truth —

Never saw American Hot Rod.

look it up. I’m sure it’s still playing on Discovery or TLC or some such. make sure you have a drool towel nearby, though. I’m not a big car fanatic, but the finished products were always … just … well … there are no words. Leno even did the show once. Boyd C isn’t with us any longer, though - he died earlier this year.

I have always wanted a Ferrari. Now all but a few are way out of a normal person’s price range.

Ferrari??? Ferrari???? no, no, my friend … you want a Lambo

oh, and you also want to do whatever you need to do to watch Top Gear. I think it’s your kind of show. Irreverant. Irresponsible. and “OMG, the cars” :-)

By Hilary Smith

August 19, 2008 12:40 PM | Link to this

Truth:

If you’re a member of the employer-class then I would understand your reaction to my posting. If, on the other hand, you are a person who sells his labor to earn a living, why do you seem so intimidated by the prospect of organized labor and the power that it can bring to the average citizen? The ruling class will try to convince you that their economic interests are also your economic interests. Don’t fall for it.

By Truth

August 19, 2008 12:47 PM | Link to this

USinUK

so, in other words, your client wants to make money off the guy’s work for years and years, but he doesn’t want to pay for it.

No. He paid for it. Do you make $2,000/day? He paid very well for it. I will work my _ off for weeks and weeks on that thing and when the client shows it in three years, i won’t get another dime. The talent’s job is a day, so because he has a pretty face, he is supposed to have ownership in something where he has offered no risk what-so-ever? His editor isn’t jammed with footage for weeks. His late nights are not occupied trying to make the senseless make sense. He has no equipment. He didn’t need to buy an insurance rider for the shoot. That would be me. But he should be paid for months for working a day? I legally own the copyright on the footage and graphics and I will not be paid past my contracted amount. Is that fair?

^that’s why unions got their start and that’s why so many people want them today - ensure that the little guy doesn’t get the painful of the deal. nothing wrong with that.*

I know and that’s the problem. The little guy has no risk. He walks in and does his job eats the catering and leaves. Not so for anyone else on the project. But he is supposed to have a career of looking for checks for a day he spent last decade?

a friend of mine just opened a bakery in the SEIU building in DC - part of her lease required that she use union labor for the build-out. at first, she balked because they came in nearly twice the cost of the other guys, but, when all was said and done, she was ecstatic about the quality of their work, their professionalism, and their knowledge about their trade.

Sometimes that is the case. But what if she had a problem? The union is going to protect those guys against any action she might want to take. She was lucky.

and, as for the folks who say that the unions are the cause of the decline of the US auto industry, may I point you to this article … people aren’t buying US cars because they’re happier with the quality of European and Japanese cars. Both of which are heavily unionized.

I know that. I don’t have to read an article. I drive a Volvo and a Nissan. I blame the unions for the rust belt, not for bad American car designs. I just saw an ad for a Cadillac Escalade. In the fall, they are going to make it available as a hybred. I know an old guy that just bought a 2005 Escalade for 5 grand because the owner could not put gas in it. A hybred will make it get almost the mileage that my old beat up Volvo got in 1995. They just don’t get it.

By Changing Names

August 19, 2008 12:51 PM | Link to this

In this brave (or cowardly, depending on your vantagepoint) new world known as the blogosphere, many “regulars” have discovered there is logic to changing names periodically. You see, if you always post under the same name, there are other regulars who come to like or dislike you. (Some regulars may even obsess over other regulars in a personal, inappropriate, and even disgusting way.) When this odd familiarity between strangers occurs, the content of one’s post is often lost behind the name.

If, for example, I think some guy calling himself “Justice” is a complete tool, I would immediately pre-judge what he’s written before taking his words, as they relate to the topic of the day, into full consideration. I might lash out inappropriately based on what the tool said on a previous day about a previous topic, and therefore not fairly weigh the current comment. Additionally, I might tend to interpret the comment based on what I already know about that person, and unfairly infer a meaning that was not directly implied. I can fully intend to be fair and impartial — factors necessary to true discourse and enlightenment — but when there is a familiarity and a known history of commments and positions, that really isn’t possible. Therefore, when I want the anonymous reader to injest my observations, opinions, or questions about a certain topic, I’ve found that using a name that does not identify me is the best way for the comment to stand on its own merit, or in some cases, complete lack thereof.

Of course I can see how this practice would be upsetting to someone who wakes up every day just itching to throw some hate around. A target pre-defined is easier to hit with the flying poo, after all.

By Truth

August 19, 2008 1:02 PM | Link to this

USinUk

A lambo? Why don’t you just tell me that I need to vote for Obama? Them’s fightin’ words.

Even though a Diablo would be a great car to trade in for a nice Ferrari. LOL!!

The old Muira was a great exotic for it’s day.

Remember the DeTomaso Pantera? (Distributed by Ford. Had a Ford 351 Cleveland mounted mid engine.) They made a car called a Mongusta before the Pantera.

http://www.pim.net/61904gsgoose.html

It had a Ford 302 mounted mid engine, but used a beautiful split window on the back. One lived in my hometown. I think that may be the car that made me a car nut. The car in the picture is a 1970.

The guy flipped it and I was riding past his house and saw it destroyed on the back of a truck, about to be hauled off. He replaced it with a Pantera, but who cares.

By USinUK

August 19, 2008 1:06 PM | Link to this

Truth -

I know and that’s the problem. The little guy has no risk. He walks in and does his job eats the catering and leaves.

ah. no. let’s talk Enron. heck, let’s hop in the WayBack Machine and talk Eastern. let’s talk WorldCom. let’s talk about all the companies who have made promises to their employees (retirement packages including not only their pay but their health care) then turned around and broken them. let’s talk about about all the companies who ask more and more from their employees - especially their personal time - but give them less and less.

for instance - it used to be that companies offered 2 weeks holiday + sick leave. Now, you get 10 days personal leave. that’s it. you get sick? tough. your kid has the flu? too darned bad if you want any vacation time this year.

and, yes, all this is going on while the CEOs drive the companies into the ground, then walk away with $97M golden parachutes (helloooo Robert Nardelli)

As far as actors (and musicians, for that matter) getting royalties - their “talent” is their stuff. you have editing decks. they have talent (that’s not a slam - you know what I mean). you invested time and money in technology - they invested time and money in classes, workshops, education, etc. Their talent is what people see and, if they’re good at what they do, will induce those people to buy whatever the product is. That doesn’t end once the actor’s work day is done.

I blame the unions for the rust belt, not for bad American car designs.

the rust belt happened because people aren’t buying US-made cars. not because people are demanding fair pay. don’t sell as much product? don’t need as many people. simple as that.

By Truth

August 19, 2008 1:11 PM | Link to this

Hilary Smith

I understand what Unions do and the good points about Unions. I belonged to one in the 70s and I belonged to one in the 90s. They did me very little good.

I look at what they have done in the past. I look at how they have effected communities.

Unions are easy to defend with nice speeches and flowery terms, but the facts say something completely different. Look at the states that have a heavy union presence. Michigan is dying. They hire actors to make commercials begging people to move their business there. The union people are no better educated than anyone else so why not go to a non-union state where i can set up a business where I can still treat my employees fair, but also defend myself when my company has a bad year.

it hasn’t worked in the past so why should I believe that it is going to work in the future?

By Truth

August 19, 2008 1:53 PM | Link to this

USinUK

their “talent” is their stuff. you have editing decks. they have talent (that’s not a slam - you know what I mean).

OK, Now you have hurt my feelings. You could possibly get me to stop weeping by sending one of these http://www.motortrend.com/features/autonews/2008/11208052009ferrari_california/index.html to my Atlanta address. I think that would be a great gesture on your part.

But seriously, a film shoot is just oozing with talent. They don’t just give academy awards for the lead man. The lighting guy uses his talent. The audio guy. The dolly grip is great at what he does. The focus puller. Some are more technical, but it is all education and talent. In fact, the on screen” probably has less invested than anyone.

Like I said, it’s not like an endorsement. It’s like the Men’s Warehouse guy. “You have my word on it” Who cares? i don’t know you. I don’t know what your word means. An on screen talent on a local level is simply another element, just like my 3-D graphics are another element. Remember if I hit the record button on a camera shooting an actor, he doesn’t own that footage. I do. But I rarely get to take advantage of that. If his face does not add to the credibility of the product, why should he be treated differently than the guy who set up his lights?

The entertainment television field has changed a lot over the last few years. I have a great idea for a show for HGTV. I know people in Knoxville that i have talked to about this show, but they tell me not to propose the show. The reason? HGTV would say thank you very much. Pay me to produce the show and then I would be done. They could run the show for years and not give me another dime. But if I invest about a million to produce a series and take that show to them, I could say, here it is. It will cost this much for you to own it for a year. After the year, I would again be able to sell the show. But to do that, I have to take a huge risk. A million bucks isn’t easy to find.

i’m all for perpetual income if a person has taken the risk. But just strolling onto a set, reading a teleprompter and going home is hardly a risk. Especially when the guy has made muliples of most people on the set for just being a talking head..

By Truth

August 19, 2008 1:58 PM | Link to this

USinUK

the rust belt happened because people aren’t buying US-made cars. not because people are demanding fair pay. don’t sell as much product? don’t need as many people. simple as that.

if that were so, the American car companies would have gone away. They didn’t. They just moved to states where they could make a profit. It is about money, you know. They have to make money before they can pay their employees.

The rust belt happened in the late 1970s. We were still selling cars in the 1970s. (Not to me, but to somebody)

By John

August 19, 2008 2:32 PM | Link to this

I’ve experienced this myself on a couple of occasions. First time was many years ago working a summer job at a RJR Cigareet factory in Winston-Salem (I don’t smoke and never have…especially after working there). We were “politically educated” that Joseph Califano was a communist, and also that tobacco made you more outgoing, more of a leader, and loved your country more.

I also experienced this many years later at Atlanta Gas Light. We were politically educated by a newly hired PR guy..who just happened to be a political lobbyist for energy concerns in a prior job.

Both times we were given the not-so-subtle message that our voting choices needed to be correct or our jobs could be in jeapardy.

No company is interested in the political education of it’s employees. Companies, i.e., directors and key executives only do things to make themselves richer, and they will use any propaganda to accomplish this.

By Bruce

August 19, 2008 2:58 PM | Link to this

Gale, are union workers generally in favor of making more money?

Color it with whatever crayon you wish it is, and always will be, about the money.

I’ll say it again, workers are hired to do a certain job for a certain amount of pay and benefits. They know, and accept, this when they agree to take the position.

Unions just use these pawns to get more money out of the business to put in their own pockets. You see if it was about insurance the unions would be helping the workers strike the insurance provider not the hand that feeds them. The CEO at GM has nothing to do with increased insurance premiums. Healthcare through your company is a BENEFIT not a RIGHT.

By Truth

August 19, 2008 3:48 PM | Link to this

John

Both times we were given the not-so-subtle message that our voting choices needed to be correct or our jobs could be in jeapardy.

Until the new laws are passed private ballots are required by law. Are you saying that you had a public ballot? And no one went straight to CBS 60 Minutes with this?

Please explain how your employee knew how you voted.

By chuck

August 19, 2008 3:53 PM | Link to this

Hey Good afternoon everybody.

Well, I see the crap is running freely. Nothing ever changes around here. Copyleft…I’m almost certain now that you are Brian Curtis. You preach the same line of bull about corporations that he did. I’m not sure if you’ve heard about this concept before, but it’s called FREE ENTERPRISE. It’s what made our country great. I’m sure your idea of nationalizing all corporations will go over real well with your Russian Comrades.

USinUK, you came out with this little gem…

*you do not HAVE to join the union just because your workplace is unionized. *

While that statement may SOUND GOOD, it simply is not true. There are VERY FEW “Right to Work” states that allow someone to CHOOSE whether or not to join a union. While Georgia is one of them, the pressure to join the union in a “union shop” is tremendous. Most employers who are burdened with a union KNOW BETTER than to hire a worker who doesn’t want to join one.

Ray Abernathy, My goodness. What you SEEM TO BE SAYING IS that if employers want to take some of the TIME THAT THEY ARE PAYING EMPLOYEES TO WORK, that’s NOT okay, but if they want to have employees come to their house ON THEIR OWN TIME without getting paid that’s okay. I’m sorry, but if I’m PAYING my employees to be there, I’ll have them do WHATEVER I WANT THEM TO. If I want to waste my company time in indoctrination, that’s my perogative.

By Truth

August 19, 2008 3:57 PM | Link to this

John

Sorry. Please explain how your employer knew how you voted.

By Bruno

August 19, 2008 4:27 PM | Link to this

Howdy gang. Quick question for Truth: If you are the important person you claim to be, owning 3 companies and all, how in the world do you find the time to blog all day every day? Just curious…..

If anyone has any positive news to report, please share it. I could definitely use a boost. Things are looking dim at the moment.

Special hellos to JokesOn, Mara, USinUK, chuck, and kimberly.

By Bruno

August 19, 2008 4:34 PM | Link to this

Is it just me, or is this the least inspiring election in recent memory? While I support most of McCain’s positions, he comes across to me as a tired, old man whose best days are behind him. Kind of like Bob Dole’s candidacy in the mid 90s. And, though I continue to like Obama on a personal level, his plans to raise taxes—specifically capital gains tax—sounds like a disaster in the making. Also, however well-intentioned Obama may be, forcing people to purchase health insurance is downright un-American. The solution to the health care crisis is lowering prices, not creating additional subsidies, IMHO.

By Bruno

August 19, 2008 4:40 PM | Link to this

Copyleft…I’m almost certain now that you are Brian Curtis.

Further evidence for your assertion came when CopyLeft quoted talkorigins.org verbatim a few months ago without giving the proper credit. BC is the only guy I know that gives any credence at all to that crackpot website.

By Archie

August 19, 2008 4:43 PM | Link to this

ah. no. let’s talk Enron. heck, let’s hop in the WayBack Machine and talk Eastern. let’s talk WorldCom. let’s talk about all the companies who have made promises to their employees (retirement packages including not only their pay but their health care) then turned around and broken them. let’s talk about about all the companies who ask more and more from their employees - especially their personal time - but give them less and less.or instance - it used to be that companies offered 2 weeks holiday + sick leave. Now, you get 10 days personal leave. that’s it. you get sick? tough. your kid has the flu? too darned bad if you want any vacation time this year.
USinUk, I liked that entire post!!!

By Truth

August 19, 2008 4:52 PM | Link to this

Chuck

Bold stance, pal. Trying to claim that the union be restricted to the same rules as the people paying employees makes you sound like an evil capitalist. Don’t you understand? People dream of building a company their entire lives that DOESN”T make money, but instead makes sure the Union reps are paid handsomely, and their employees get paid $35 an hour for doing what can be taught to them in a matter of maybe an hour.

it’s always been a dream of mine. i’ll mortgage the house. I’ll sell my cars and fill up every credit card I have And then I’ll start borrowing real money and then, I’ll look for investors to give me even more money to buy my machinery to make those widgets and make sure all my employees have a good salary.

Then I’ll give myself no more than my least paid employee so my employees won’t resent my wealth, because we all know that this is the greatest insult a business owner can endure.

I really want to be a liberal Chuck. And you should too. Let’s all hold hands and hire people like Copyleft who will certainly finally be happy because his boss … er, not boss, but fellow associate who is just doing a different, not more important job than he; will be driving a POS car and living in a rented apartment. Just because I took a few risks certainly doesn’t mean that I should have anything more than my lowest, er least important, er importantly challenged person in my company.

it is our destiny as republicans to see the humanitarian side of business and become democrats.

Now if you will excuse me, I need to weep for a while and then maybe pet a squirrel, one of God’s … er, one of a non religous entities like Santa Claus or the Easter Bunny … er the Spring Celebration Bunny or Mother Nature’s creature.

By Bruno

August 19, 2008 4:53 PM | Link to this

Hey, Archie. I think you made a wise choice to work for the government. The private sector is pretty shaky right now. Everywhere I look, there are more and more buildings for rent, and more and more businesses failing. I’m thinking about throwing in the towel and finding a govt job myself.

By Truth

August 19, 2008 4:58 PM | Link to this

USinUk and Archie.

Eastern Airlines was a Union shop. So how did that union thing work out for them?

Do either one of you know what I would give for ten days of paid vacation? My kids got sick, I took them to a doctor. Walk a mile … no …. walk an inch in a business owner’s shoes and then tell me how horrible it is to have 14 days paid vacation reduced to only ten days.

By Bruno

August 19, 2008 5:03 PM | Link to this

Do either one of you know what I would give for ten days of paid vacation? My kids got sick, I took them to a doctor. Walk a mile … no …. walk an inch in a business owner’s shoes and then tell me how horrible it is to have 14 days paid vacation reduced to only ten days.

Of course, if you count time on the blog, you seem to have 2-3 months of vacation time.

By JokesOn

August 19, 2008 5:03 PM | Link to this

Special hellos to JokesOn, Mara, USinUK, chuck, and kimberly.

Hey buddy.

Been busy and no desire to blog until the childishness subsides. Just look at all of the name calling each day. jeeze.

As for good news? There are still a million of em in the sea; many of which are incredible people. I just need to regain my desire to fish;)

Take care and hope things get better. One thing is for sure: Things never stay the same.

By Truth

August 19, 2008 5:07 PM | Link to this

Bruno.

I have three websites, not three companies. The one that makes money doesn’t require any attention, but if it does need something, my kid takes care of it. (and is well paid)

It has nothing to do with being important. If I am important to you, that is your choice, but I certainly haven’t ask to be anything to you.

My little production company has several projects that are right now in post production and pre-production which I do with an editor in front of me, and my 3-D machine to my left. I have a laptop on my right which I am able to blog on. I do most of my editing late at night when the phone stops ringing.

What happened to your job?

By Sniper

August 19, 2008 5:09 PM | Link to this

Do either one of you know what I would give for ten days of paid vacation

whose decision was it to be so incapable of getting along with others that you insist on being self-employed and apparently not doing that well at it, since ‘editors’ aren’t that dang expensive.

By Truth

August 19, 2008 5:11 PM | Link to this

Bruno

Of course, if you count time on the blog, you seem to have 2-3 months of vacation time.

What’sup pal. Got a burr up your butt?

By Bruno

August 19, 2008 5:12 PM | Link to this

Been busy and no desire to blog until the childishness subsides. Just look at all of the name calling each day. jeeze.

I have to agree with you on that one. The few times I’ve checked in the past few months, Truth’s blather seems to get worse and worse.

As for good news? There are still a million of em in the sea; many of which are incredible people. I just need to regain my desire to fish;)

I’m trying to keep hope alive right now, but it’s getting tougher. I’m really kicking myself for not going back to school during my time off. I’m not enjoying working in health care anymore.

Take care and hope things get better. One thing is for sure: Things never stay the same.

Thanks, man.

By Truth

August 19, 2008 5:15 PM | Link to this

Sniper

I can’t resist this one. How ya doin, half wit? Just get back from lunch again? LOL!!

editors’ aren’t that dang expensive.

I do a lot more than edit, but just for fun, give Crawford Post Production a call and see what an edit suite with a network quality editor costs. I dare you.

By Bruno

August 19, 2008 5:16 PM | Link to this

My little production company has several projects that are right now in post production and pre-production which I do with an editor in front of me, and my 3-D machine to my left. I have a laptop on my right which I am able to blog on. I do most of my editing late at night when the phone stops ringing.

Fair enough, I’ll take your word for it.

What happened to your job?

I decided to take a few days off. I’m pretty sure I’m going to change careers soon. Working with people in pain for 22+ years has become a drag.

By Bruno

August 19, 2008 5:19 PM | Link to this

What’sup pal. Got a burr up your butt?

No, just curious how you seem to have so much free time on your hands.

I have no animosity toward you, but have to agree with JokesOn about the name-calling, etc. We’re all in this thing together.

By Truth

August 19, 2008 5:23 PM | Link to this

Bruno

Aren’t you single? Why are you working in a field that you don’t like? A little free advice: DO SOMETHING ELSE.

You gotta make the leap or you are going to be miserable your whole life. No body or nothing is going to make that any better for you. Only you can fix that.

Have a good night.

By Bruno

August 19, 2008 5:29 PM | Link to this

Well it sure was nice of the W2W editors to extend the blogging hours today in honor of my return ; > } I’ll probably come back tomorrow for a few hours, then busy the rest of the week.. My tenant in Marietta got arrested and deported a few weeks ago, so I have to go assess the damage to the house. I should have seen that one coming. The cops in both Cobb and Gwinnett are making a big effort to deport the illegals right now, which is killing the housing market even more.

By Truth

August 19, 2008 5:33 PM | Link to this

Bruno

Point out the name calling. Joke doesn’t have the spine to call names under his own niks so he makes up all these names. He’s been posting under dozens of different names all week, but everyone has been ignoring him.

I have no animosity toward anyone, but I definitely recognize slime when I smell it and Joke is slime. I ignore him most of the time, but “Sniper” is Joke. This is what he does. he just gets nastier and nastier if I ignore him. Isn;’t it amazing how he hasn’t posted under his name for days, but was right here as soon as you said hello. Don’t you find that strange that he claims to just hang out here but not post?

Did you read where he is now stalking me around the internet. he found some poor guy on Flicker that he was sure was me and came here bragging about how he had “found me out”.

I’ve even offered to meet him and work out our problems but he doesn’t seem to want that, and I remember you sayting he was a really big guy. I guess he is just a really big guy that’s afraid of me.

I have a voice over to go and do. Hey Joke, i’ll be at Dopler at six o’clock.

By Archie

August 19, 2008 5:33 PM | Link to this

Hey, Archie. I think you made a wise choice to work for the government. The private sector is pretty shaky right now. Man when I started with the government I had been laid off from a private sector job. I would rather work with the private sector but USinUk made some good points,real good points.

By Bruno

August 19, 2008 5:37 PM | Link to this

Aren’t you single? Why are you working in a field that you don’t like? A little free advice: DO SOMETHING ELSE.

You gotta make the leap or you are going to be miserable your whole life. No body or nothing is going to make that any better for you. Only you can fix that.

I had a good run in health care for a long time, so I guess I can’t complain. Unfortunately, all the assets I built up were non-liquid, so it’s taken me a while to sell everything. With my tenants gone, I’m still looking at two mortgage payments and a car note, however. I’m thinking about getting into teaching, but will have to return to school for approximately 2 years.

Thanks for the encouragement, Truth.

By Bruno

August 19, 2008 5:43 PM | Link to this

Point out the name calling. Joke doesn’t have the spine to call names under his own niks so he makes up all these names. He’s been posting under dozens of different names all week, but everyone has been ignoring him.

Honestly, Truth, I think you’re wrong on that account. I’d bet my bottom dollar that JokesOn has only posted under one name. Though I haven’t met him in person, we have some mutual friends. JokesOn is a straight up guy, even though he tends to be somewhat abrasive in his truth-telling at times. Because he is a big guy, I don’t think he’s afraid of anyone or anything, so has no reason to post under aliases.

By Bruno

August 19, 2008 5:49 PM | Link to this

Did you read where he is now stalking me around the internet. he found some poor guy on Flicker that he was sure was me and came here bragging about how he had “found me out”. I’ve even offered to meet him and work out our problems but he doesn’t seem to want that, and I remember you sayting he was a really big guy. I guess he is just a really big guy that’s afraid of me.

Shake it off, Truth. I don’t think meeting in person would help either you or him in any way, so forget about it. JokesOn is a good person who has done a lot of good in the world. And you are a good person who has done a lot of good in the world. Leave it at that.

By JokesOn

August 19, 2008 6:04 PM | Link to this

Joke doesn’t have the spine to call names under his own niks so he makes up all these names. Yeah! That is it. (the sh!t keeps getting deeper…)

Your brain would explode if your denial ever ceased. To imagine all those people hating you so much. …even on a blog that kind of dislike carries weight.

Don’t you find that strange that he claims to just hang out here but not post? Again…Yeah! That is it. No one just lurks the blog after getting sick of your childishness. Oh yeah….everyone left because of you and many even stated “hating you.”

Hey Joke, i’ll be at Dopler at six o’clock.

And I will still be in Cancun for the next week.

And to close…

Point out the name calling.

By Truth

August 19, 2008 9:29 AM | Link to this

Answerman

(snip)

How about answering this as “observation guy”. How about adopting a very applicable name like “half-witted coward”. Now THAT’s a good name for you.

I do find your assertion to a poster funny though: Since you do not have the stones to post under a constant name, no more responses from me.

You have now had how many name changes because of being hated? Jack,TOJ, Corperate Dog and another or two I cannot recall. Each time trying to fake you were someone else besides the hated TOJ.

Bah-Bye Baby’s Daddy.

Dog,

I am tempted to meet up with him just to watch him crap himself! Can you image how quickly he would start acting like my best friend?

Maybe when I have some bad times and want to take it out on a little old man…naw…not worth the self loathing sinking to his/that level.

By Bruno

August 19, 2008 6:11 PM | Link to this

I am tempted to meet up with him just to watch him crap himself! Can you image how quickly he would start acting like my best friend?

That would likely be my strategy with you on my a-ss. : > }

By Bruno

August 19, 2008 6:21 PM | Link to this

Have a good time in Cancun, JokesOn. If I had planned things a little better, I should have booked a flight there myself, or maybe to Ibiza. I’m sure a few naked babes would do wonders to lift up my—ahem—spirits.

By Truth

August 19, 2008 8:50 PM | Link to this

Bruno

Mortgages suck. Especially now.

I almost left last year because I got a great offer on my house. But business is booming.

Chin up, Pal. But if you are miserable, just set a course and stay with it. But don’t get into something else that is going to make you miserable. Money is not everything. Hell, it’s hardly anything other than a tool to pay bills. Be happy. I would rather be broke and spending my days doing what I love than have millions doing something that made me miserable.

As far as Joke, I think you are wrong but who cares. I will keep posting and he will keep sliming around trying to be someone he is not. As far as his size? Sht. If I had any reason to be afraid of him, I would have never told him where I was this afternoon. it’s not hard to tell who a real threat would be. . I don’t fear people with no blls.

By JokesOn

August 19, 2008 8:53 PM | Link to this

Have a good time in Cancun, JokesOn. If I had planned things a little better, I should have booked a flight there myself, or maybe to Ibiza. I’m sure a few naked babes would do wonders to lift up my—ahem—spirits.

Well, after talking about a vacation with USinUK last week, I talked to my agent. She got us 14days, all inclusive of course, for $725 all fees and taxes. I barely can live at home at that price. Be fishing all day tomorrow, but if internet connection is up here when I get back I will check in on you. Give em’ hell.

What-ever is going on, know that people (even people in obscure places) rely on and are rooting for you.

By Truth

August 19, 2008 9:03 PM | Link to this

Bruno

Have you been to Cancun? It is the tourist trap of the Caribbean. The best thing about it is the hotels where you can stay at nights, (as long as it is not the big Mexican Hotel called the Milia Cancun.) Rent a car and get the hell out of there during the day. Coba is worth the trip, but the other Mayan ruins are just tourist traps.

I’m glad he is going to one of the hottest place in this hemisphere in August. LOL!!

Have fun Joke!!!

By chuck

August 19, 2008 9:41 PM | Link to this

Hey Brudog. How’s it hangin’?

This working for a living is tough. Seriously cuts into my free time. While I know I make teaching seem like a glamorous job, it isn’t always what it’s cracked up to be. Most of the administrators are idiots who just look worry about making themselves look good at the expense of teachers and students. The kids get a little worse every year…but not enough yet to make me start looking for something else to do. I have too much time invested now to really think about moving on anyway and there are a lot of things I still enjoy about it.

My colleagues are great. I love the kids still, especially the ones I coach, and the time off isn’t bad. I still love teaching history because I developed the love of history throughout my entire childhood.

It would be tough on you, I think because it would definitely put restraints on both your time AND your freedom. But hey, most of the classes can be taken at night if you wanted to give it a shot. Plus, with your degree in hand, you could probably go the alternative certification route. You could get a teaching job and work on certification while you are already working. If you go to the Georgia Professional Standards Commission website and click on “certification home” you can actually send them your transcripts and they will tell you what you have to do to get started. I really don’t think you would have to take any classes. You might have to take the GACE test in whatever subject you want to teach. Then it’s just a matter of jumping through a few hoops.

Hey I have a book recommendation for you Brudog. It’s called Final Theory by Mark Alpert. It’s a fiction action/thriller type book that incorporates Einstein’s “theory of everything”. It’s a little improbable at times, but I learned some things about string theory and expansion theory. A very intersting book.

As for “working for the government”, Archie, if the libs have their way I guess we’ll ALL be working for the gov’t one day anyway. I can’t believe we are even debating whether or not companies SHOULD BE ALLOWED to use their “bully pulpit” to tell employees which candidates would be best for the company and by extension, best for their job security. I find it hilarious that those on the left are perfectly willing to stifle free speech as long as it is speech that they disagree with. AND THEY SAY WE ARE AGAINST FREE SPEECH. Sheesh.

By Hilary Smith

August 19, 2008 10:33 PM | Link to this

Truth, it is not always a good idea to base opinions on anecdotal evidence. You can’t deny that labor unions bring power to the working-class. You also can’t deny that, even though we constitute the majority, the American working-class is under-represented at this time in our history. How is this possible? Working-class people must reclaim power over our own lives. What better basis for unity than our common roles as wage-laborers?

Also, I’m not saying that bad unions don’t exist. There will always be bad leadership, especially when the people don’t demand accountability. Lesson #1: Demand accountability.

By Billy

August 20, 2008 12:35 AM | Link to this

The very phrase “political education” sends a chill up my spine.

“OK, people, listen up. After your eight-hour shift today, which you worked with only one five-minute break, you are required to stay for a two-hour “political education” meeting regarding unions and why they are so horrible. What? Yes, that’s right, it’s a mandatory meeting. No, you won’t be paid for it. No, we can do that. Too bad you aren’t unionized…”

Seriously, Wal-Mart is free to lobby against the bill all they want. But do it on the Hill, not in the break room. It’s flat-out an attempt to scare people into voting a particular way.

By Bruno

August 20, 2008 1:08 AM | Link to this

It would be tough on you, I think because it would definitely put restraints on both your time AND your freedom. But hey, most of the classes can be taken at night if you wanted to give it a shot. Plus, with your degree in hand, you could probably go the alternative certification route. You could get a teaching job and work on certification while you are already working. If you go to the Georgia Professional Standards Commission website and click on “certification home” you can actually send them your transcripts and they will tell you what you have to do to get started. I really don’t think you would have to take any classes. You might have to take the GACE test in whatever subject you want to teach. Then it’s just a matter of jumping through a few hoops.

Thanks for the info, chuck. I’ll look into it. I’m in an unusual situation insofar as I was able to earn a doctoral degree without obtaining a bachelor’s degree first. I was told previously that I would need a bachelor’s degree in mathematics to be able to teach math. I wouldn’t have to take many more math courses, but would have to take several BS humanities courses to meet the degree requirements. I would love to complete a degree at HMC, but at nearly $50K per year, it wouldn’t be worth the investment.

Chin up, Pal. But if you are miserable, just set a course and stay with it. But don’t get into something else that is going to make you miserable. Money is not everything. Hell, it’s hardly anything other than a tool to pay bills. Be happy. I would rather be broke and spending my days doing what I love than have millions doing something that made me miserable.

Honestly, Truth, Math and Science are my only true passions in life right now, which is why I’m thinking about teaching. Teacher’s pay isn’t bad (close to 40K to start), but as chuck mentioned, you have to put with a lot of crap. The worst part for me would be getting up early. Yuck. Hopefully I could be an inspiration to some young people who still have their lives ahead of them.

What-ever is going on, know that people (even people in obscure places) rely on and are rooting for you.

Thanks again for the encouragement, JokesOn (and others). I’ve been battling some severe depression lately, and have thought about giving up a few times. Why are we here anyway? Just what is the point of it all?

By Bruno

August 20, 2008 1:14 AM | Link to this

The very phrase “political education” sends a chill up my spine.

Hey, Billy, what are you doing up so late? At least we found a topic we finally agree on. I can see a lot of danger in workplace coercion to vote a certain way. How someone chooses to vote should be their business, and their business alone, regardless of what their employer thinks.

By Truth

August 20, 2008 1:14 AM | Link to this

Hilary Smith

We aren’t going to ever agree on this.

You can’t deny that labor unions bring power to the working-class.

Why do you think that they deserve to have power over the people who created and maintain their jobs? i know that sounds cold, but I would just like to hear you tell me why a person walking in off the streets, looking for a job that is only bringing a pulse to the table, a person that is going to need to be trained, costing the employer more money, that person would have power over that employer? That doesn’t make any sense.

if you want power, take some risks. Start your own business. If you want a job, I will pay you well, but you will work for me. If I am not paying you enough, let’s talk about it. If the business can afford to offer you more money and you can prove that you deserve it, It will happen, but if not, it’s nothing personal, but I simply can’t afford you. You are a manufacturing element that I can’t afford so I will need to find an element that I can afford. It is Business 101.

Let’s say you go to Best Buy to buy a TV. All the money you have is $600. If the TV you want costs $700, you leave and save up your pennies for a return trip to buy the TV later.

But let’s say that a Union is in charge of Best Buy and any customer that enters the store.

You go to the salesman and say that you only have $600. But he tells you that you can’t leave. He doesn’t want to hear excuses, you WILL buy that TV and you WILL not only pay the retail price, but you will also buy the extended warrentee. The buyers Union says that you HAVE to do it and it is the law that you HAVE to buy that TV. How would you feel about the buyers Union at that point?

You don’t see the parallel? Start your own business. You will.

Working-class people must reclaim power over our own lives.

That’s fine. Reclaim all you want. Just don’t try to claim power over the business that I took the risks to build. If you need more money than I can pay, don’t bring in Union thugs to force me to pay you more than I can afford. Once that happens, then nobody has a job, because I will shut it down and sell off my assets and try to recoup my investment before the Union forces me to lose everything I have worked for. Why should I lose everything I have worked to build because you bring in thugs to force me to pay you more than I can afford?

By Bruno

August 20, 2008 1:18 AM | Link to this

Be fishing all day tomorrow, but if internet connection is up here when I get back I will check in on you. Give em’ hell.

Hope you have a great time fishing, buddy. I’ll look for you tomorrow.

By Bruno

August 20, 2008 1:29 AM | Link to this

if you want power, take some risks. Start your own business. If you want a job, I will pay you well, but you will work for me. If I am not paying you enough, let’s talk about it. If the business can afford to offer you more money and you can prove that you deserve it, It will happen, but if not, it’s nothing personal, but I simply can’t afford you. You are a manufacturing element that I can’t afford so I will need to find an element that I can afford. It is Business 101.

Howdy, Truth. How do you like this all-night blogging?

Having been a small business owner for many years, I tend to agree with you about unions. Around the turn of the 19th century, I think that they were necessary due to extremely harsh working conditions. In the modern world, I don’t see them being quite as necessary. However, there are always two sides to every story. Very few large corporations are run by the people who started them. As such, your analysis isn’t totally correct.

By Truth

August 20, 2008 1:49 AM | Link to this

Bruno

What is the point of it? Be happy. I’m serious.

I had dinner tonight with a couple of good friends. We were talking about how lucky we were to be born at this time and at this place. it’s like winning the super duper power ball lottery. Trillions and trillions to one odds that we would have been born at the mid 20th century in the USA.

I have been where you are. When I lost my child, I really wanted to die. i had nowhere to turn. My wife had killed our baby. Who do you talk to about that? I began to realize that what an event like that does is to make you enjoy being sad.

I know that sounds really weird, but it is the truth. If fact, it makes it so enjoyable that you don’t want to do anything else. Maybe enjoyable isn’t the right word, but it is some sort of primal urge. You would rather be sad than happy. If you are really that depressed, you know exactly what I am talking about. The problem is that time doesn’t heal clinical depression. You will need to fix this yourself. If that means to go to a shrink, then do it, but I don’t think you need that. You just need to find something that you like.

Teaching is cool. I have substituted when I was in college. (I’m sure Tennessee now requires a certificate. They didn’t back then.) Do that, especially if you have most of the education. Kids need a good teacher that gives a damn. There is nothing that makes a heart happier than to inspire a kid.

But in the meanwhile, exercise. Roll yourself a doobie. Have sex with a pretty woman. Go see a movie that you wanted to see. Make it a fun movie. Call your mom if she is still around and talk about good stuff when you were growing up.

But above all, change what you are doing. What you are doing is making you depressed. Don’t do that.

I would wish you luck, but you don’t need luck. I know enough about you to know that you already have everything you need.

By Truth

August 20, 2008 2:23 AM | Link to this

Bruno

I don’t even hire people except on a freelance basis. I just keep thinking about some of my clients that have great little businesses that they have built. I would hate to see them lose them.

I don’t want to dwell on this, but look at a weather map of the Yucatan. They are getting the leeward of this hurricane. It will be storming all week so they would have never scheduled a trip. Fishing boats don’t go out in thunderstorms. I think he is lying so he can sideline snipe tomorrow like he has been dong for a few days, now.

Have a good night. I’m hitting the sack.

By Eric

August 20, 2008 4:26 AM | Link to this

Workers, unite!

By USinUK

August 20, 2008 6:47 AM | Link to this

good grief … a pajama party and I missed it!!

Bruno - BIG hugs, my friend … I’m sorry to hear that you’re down, but if I can be so bold as to weigh in on your “what’s the point?” … for me, it’s to love and appreciate the things that we have (health, family, friends, whatever) and to appreciate the beauty around us.

I know I’ve been waxing lyrical about the Olympics this week, but when you look at what these men and women (and 9-year-old-girls) are doing - when you think about how hard they’ve worked for what they’ve achieved - when you look at the joy on their faces as they received their medals … well, how can you NOT see the beauty in this life?

All I can say is that you do have people out here who would feel the loss if you weren’t around, so … stick around.

Also, although it happens only once in a blue-blue moon, I do agree 100% with Truth when he says that it’s better to make less $$$ doing something you love than to be a millionare doing something that makes you miserable. Life’s too danged short as it is - no reason to spend it doing something that makes you nauseous on the drive in to work.

So. If you want to teach, good on you!! I wish I had a math teacher who could convey the love of the subject to us - there aren’t enough of those types of teachers out there. GOOOOOO, Big B!!! I hope you can see how many of us out here are rooting for you :-)

By USinUK

August 20, 2008 6:58 AM | Link to this

Jokesy said …

Well, after talking about a vacation with USinUK last week, I talked to my agent. She got us 14days, all inclusive of course, for $725 all fees and taxes.

just to clarify … he was talking with me about vacations, not talking about vacations with me.

heeheehee

By USinUK

August 20, 2008 8:10 AM | Link to this

chuck -

As for “working for the government”, Archie, if the libs have their way I guess we’ll ALL be working for the gov’t one day anyway.

as always, chuck, you’re right on the money. we libs not only want everyone to be working for government, we want those jobs to be cutting checks for poor people. undeserving poor people. and we want you to do it while listening to speeches by Che Guevera and Cesar Chavez. OLE! and, while you’re at it, we want everyone to get your hair cut the same way … and carry a little red book … with sayings of Jimmy Carter in it …

and we want everyone to have abortions all the time … even if they’re 85 and male

and after you’ve had your abortion, we want you to have gay sex - lots of it

and we want everyone to pray to TREES and SPOTTED OWLS and Barbara Streisand

and we want to sue all the companies who sell coffee, whether it’s hot or iced (oh, waitaminnit, there aren’t any “companies” anymore … )

and we want all kids in schools to pledge allegiance to the UN …

(I just know that’s what you think we believe, so I thought I’d go ahead and cut to the chase) …

btw … the government SHRANK in size under Clinton/Gore … it’s GROWN under the abomination of Bush/Cheney, so who wants you to work for the government???

By Mara

August 20, 2008 8:13 AM | Link to this

Hye Bruno! Looks like I missed out on some great topics! Boyd Coddington?! Yeah, his company has built some great rods and he may have been a hands-on guy in the early years, but don’t forget that he had craftsmen like Chip Foose, Charley Hutton, and Jesse James working for him. Coddington earned my disgust when he pled guilty to submitting forged registrations so he could evade tax, tag, and pollution regulations.

to segue into the labor discussion…Charlie and Al seemed to look to see their work like a lot of people do, “My time is for rent. Will work for anyone that gives me the least amount of stress, best possible working enviroment, and best pay. Loyalty ends where the respect and paycheck does”. Boyd treated his employee’s like dirt and they left. Most people don’t have the talent of a Chip Foose or Jesse James so their options are much more limited. Which is where the unions come in…

Labor Unions do serve the purpose of ensuring that employee’s aren’t abused. Some bosses are abusive and view their employee’s as nothing more than peons who do as they’re told, regardless of what they were hired to do. To illustrate, here’s chuck - “I’m PAYING my employees to be there, I’ll have them do WHATEVER I WANT THEM TO.” Like too many employers, because he writes out a paycheck, chuck seems to believe that he owns these people during the work day. In many places without opportunity or unions, he’s basically right. In a Rust Belt community where there’s only a limited number of employers and too many people desperate for income, Truth’s admonition that they should just “get a different job” rings of “let them eat cake…”

By Lyrazel

August 20, 2008 8:25 AM | Link to this

When I was an employer the last thing I ever wanted to do was educate employees about politics or religion. They had their opinions and welcome to express them so long as it did not bother production or other employees. Unions sent pamphlets but never came to the shop.

I never met an unhappy millionaire. I have met many unhappy poor people and many people so convinced they are unhappy because they don’t have (fill in blank). The few millionaires I have known are still very involved with community, family and wealth building was a side trip they enjoyed. They also never made loans to family members or friends—-is that the secret of keeping one’s millions or happiness?

By Copyleft

August 20, 2008 8:35 AM | Link to this

Sheesh. It’s sad to see working-class people fighting so hard against the possibility of having some bargaining power against their exploiters. Do you really enjoy being a slave THAT much?

The petty, childish insults are what I’d expect of Chuck—after all, he has nothing else to offer—but I would think Bruno and Truth, at least, could try to answer the factual questions raised.

Do we actually have “free enterprise” when directors and executives wield all the power, including special favored treatment from government and tacit permission to break the law?

Was “America great” in the 1950s, when union membership was at its height? (And, by some amazing coincidence, income inequality was at its lowest?)

Do you honestly think “the power to quit this job” is comparable to the staggering economic power that CEOs and VPs wield every day? Do you know ANYTHING about the Gilded Age?

(P.S. to Chuck: Actually, it was Brian Curtis’ link on this very blog that pointed me to the excellent Talk Origins site. Very informative stuff, from people who know what they’re talking about—you know, actual scientists, who make you recoil like a vampire from sunligh. And ideally organized to answer the most common, pathetic, and inane arguments of the creationist cultists.)

By Copyleft

August 20, 2008 8:35 AM | Link to this

Sheesh. It’s sad to see working-class people fighting so hard against the possibility of having some bargaining power against their exploiters. Do you really enjoy being a slave THAT much?

The petty, childish insults are what I’d expect of Chuck—after all, he has nothing else to offer—but I would think Bruno and Truth, at least, could try to answer the factual questions raised.

Do we actually have “free enterprise” when directors and executives wield all the power, including special favored treatment from government and tacit permission to break the law?

Was “America great” in the 1950s, when union membership was at its height? (And, by some amazing coincidence, income inequality was at its lowest?)

Do you honestly think “the power to quit this job” is comparable to the staggering economic power that CEOs and VPs wield every day? Do you know ANYTHING about the Gilded Age?

(P.S. to Chuck: Actually, it was Brian Curtis’ link on this very blog that pointed me to the excellent Talk Origins site. Very informative stuff, from people who know what they’re talking about—you know, actual scientists, who make you recoil like a vampire from sunlight. And ideally organized to answer the most common, pathetic, and inane arguments of the creationist cultists.)

By Copyleft

August 20, 2008 8:42 AM | Link to this

Or, to keep it simple for the aging Ayn Rand fanatics still out there:

Do you honestly believe that economic power is the ONE type of power that can never, ever be abused? Do you really think the marketplace IS “magic”?

If you’re not that gullible, then you recognize the need for checks on capital’s power, just like we need checks on the three branches of government. Ergo, unions.

If you ARE that gullible, well… you need to be writing editorials for the Wall Street Journal.

By USinUK

August 20, 2008 9:10 AM | Link to this

Copy -

Do you really think the marketplace IS “magic”?

sure, it’s magic … the marketplace managed to make $1 Trillion disappear in the last year …

…. ooo …. magic.

By Gale

August 20, 2008 9:29 AM | Link to this

Hmmm, IMO “people who really know what they are talking about” = They agree with what I choose to think.

Bruno, I worked in the health care industry in the first half of my career and I would go back to it given the opportunity (and working conditions and easy commute and the earned vacation time that I have now). BUt as you can probably guess, I am unwilling to give up the few perks I have. But my point is that health care gets into your system. I had nothing to do with actually caring for people. I work with computer software. Still, I felt like my work made the work of the care givers easier and was therefore contributing to something important. I have not felt that level of importantance with any work I have produced since then. There may be some field associated with health care where the things you love to do, can contribute while keeping you away from people in pain. I’m just say’n.

By Marketer

August 20, 2008 9:30 AM | Link to this

the marketplace managed to make $1 Trillion disappear in the last year

except it was FAKE(paper).

I am sure you husband is glad you are not vacationing now in Cancun. Glad you clarified that.

By USinUK

August 20, 2008 9:43 AM | Link to this

Marketer -

except it was FAKE(paper)

Market Value is Market Value is Market Value

I am sure you husband is glad you are not vacationing now in Cancun.

imagine my surprise this morning when I found out I was fishing with Jokesy!

(that’s how rumors get started)

By Truth

August 20, 2008 10:03 AM | Link to this

Mara

Truth’s admonition that they should just “get a different job” rings of “let them eat cake…”

I have one question for you. Please try to answer it.

If the business is losing massive amounts of money to meet union demands. what then? What does the company do then? Understand that the Union is not going to give them an option. They don’t care about the books. You can scream about the salary of the CEO all you want, but that’s not going to break the company. Paying non-skilled workers $35/hr. will.

How many companies are now gone simply because the union thugs would not let the company make a profit?

Make a profit? THAT’S EVIL!!!! That means that rich stock holders make even more money and who wants that?

Companies exist to make a profit. Let me repeat that: Companies exist to make a profit.

One more time, see if you can answer it.

What happens when the company ceases to make a profit because of Union demands? Don’t say it can’t happen because if you have ever driven through Michigan, you are looking at the rotted carcasses of hundreds of once successful businesses that could not afford to pay unskilled labor outrageous amounts of money.

By Copyleft

August 20, 2008 10:53 AM | Link to this

Hmmm, IMO “people who really know what they are talking about” = They agree with what I choose to think.

That’s often true, Gale… but in this case, I was pointing to scientists. People who have actually studied the subject and stated their (testable) conclusions.

Kind of like how climatologists are more credible than Bill O’Reilly when it comes to discussing global warming.

By Bruno

August 20, 2008 11:08 AM | Link to this

Good morning, bloggers.

Bruno - BIG hugs, my friend … I’m sorry to hear that you’re down, but if I can be so bold as to weigh in on your “what’s the point?” … for me, it’s to love and appreciate the things that we have (health, family, friends, whatever) and to appreciate the beauty around us.

Thanks for the kind words, USinUK. I think the depression I’m experiencing is primarily a chemistry problem. There are times when I feel pretty good, and times when it’s a struggle to get out of bed. From what I’ve read, Johnny Carson suffered from severe depression as well, which shows that external circumstances aren’t the determining factor. While I’d like to draw strength from family and friends, I’m basically a loner at heart, and don’t like to open up about it.

I know I’ve been waxing lyrical about the Olympics this week, but when you look at what these men and women (and 9-year-old-girls) are doing - when you think about how hard they’ve worked for what they’ve achieved - when you look at the joy on their faces as they received their medals … well, how can you NOT see the beauty in this life?

I’m a big fan of the Olympics as well and have been watching all that I can. I just wish the networks would devote more time to the “less popular” sports. Late last night I saw some BMX bicycle racing. Lot of fun watching them mix it up. Another underrated sport IMO is table tennis. If you haven’t seen it yet, the movie “Balls of Fury” was a riot.

By Mara

August 20, 2008 11:13 AM | Link to this

Truth - How many companies are now gone simply because the union thugs would not let the company make a profit?

how many companies are now gone because the owners hired incompetent management and allowed them to run the business into the ground?

How many comapanies are now gone because the owners prefered to pay slave-wages in foreign countries instead of a livable wage in this one?

You can worship at the alter of the All Mighty Bottom Line as you like but Business Profit is not the be-all end-all of the economy. Henry Ford, for all his faults, had the common sense to understand that if there’s nobody with enough disposable income to buy your product, there’s no sense in producing it. That’s why he paid his workers well over the prevailing wage.

“What happens when the company ceases to make a profit because of Union demands?…if you have ever driven through Michigan…”

Ah, yes…it is all the unions fault that the steel companies could no longer make a profit. It had absolutely nothing to do with their use of outdated and obsolete “technology”, their problems meeting environmental standards, nor the rise of steel production in other countries. And the auto companies were obviously harmed by unions. Their losses didn’t have anything to do with lost sales from higher unemployment which was a result of the greater automation in almost every manufacturing sector. Oh, no. There are NO circumstances other than greedy workers demanding the sun and the moon from their poor destitute employers that hit Michigan and the Industrial midwest.

Paying non-skilled workers $35/hr….

Non-skilled? And which workers would those be? Before I can make any rebuttal, I’d have to know what you consider “non-skilled”. If the worker is competent at his job, obvously they are NOT “non-skilled”. If they aren’t competent, they can be trained, transfered or fired…even in a union shop. I’d really like to know which jobs those are where Joe-the-streetbum can stagger in and realistically expect to start at $35/hour.

By Bruno

August 20, 2008 11:14 AM | Link to this

I know that sounds really weird, but it is the truth. If fact, it makes it so enjoyable that you don’t want to do anything else. Maybe enjoyable isn’t the right word, but it is some sort of primal urge. You would rather be sad than happy. If you are really that depressed, you know exactly what I am talking about. The problem is that time doesn’t heal clinical depression. You will need to fix this yourself. If that means to go to a shrink, then do it, but I don’t think you need that. You just need to find something that you like.

You might have a good point there, Truth. Putting it into a religious context, it’s kind of like a demonic possession to be severely depressed. It draws and beckons you, but the “reward” is only pain and suffering. Any opinions about that, NameChanger?

By Bruno

August 20, 2008 11:21 AM | Link to this

just to clarify … he was talking with me about vacations, not talking about vacations with me.

Don’t worry, USinUK. We all know that you’re not that kind of girl. Mara either. Both of your husbands are very fortunate to have smart, loving partners like yourselves. Maybe I’ll be so fortunate one day. Things were going pretty well with my friend in Miami until she started asking me for money. Big disappointment.

Any suggestions as to where to meet a really smart girl?

By USinUK

August 20, 2008 11:21 AM | Link to this

Bruno -

I think the depression I’m experiencing is primarily a chemistry problem. There are times when I feel pretty good, and times when it’s a struggle to get out of bed. From what I’ve read, Johnny Carson suffered from severe depression as well, which shows that external circumstances aren’t the determining factor. While I’d like to draw strength from family and friends, I’m basically a loner at heart, and don’t like to open up about it.

well … hugs, nonetheless. One of my favorite actors, writers, and all-around Renaissance Men is Stephen Fry - he suffers from bipolarity and has been very public about his illness. In fact, ye did a 2-part BBC documentary about what it is, how it’s treated, etc. Depression and bipolarity happens to so many people - and I’m so sorry to hear you’re in the depths of it right now.

I just wish the networks would devote more time to the “less popular” sports.

yeah - the best you can hope for is to hit ESPN or BBCAmerica or go online if you want to catch coverage.

meanwhile … another great day for Team GB!! woowoo!!

By USinUK

August 20, 2008 11:31 AM | Link to this

Bruno -

Things were going pretty well with my friend in Miami until she started asking me for money. Big disappointment.

eesh. run. run far. run fast.

Any suggestions as to where to meet a really smart girl?

Washington DC - can’t swing a dead cat without hitting amazingly smart men and women. a couple of great things about the city: 1) very few people are from there, so there’s no “outsider” feeling and 2) the average age for a first marriage has to be mid-to-late 30s, so you don’t feel like a freak if you are 38 and still single (unlike most cities in the country)

and, no, you don’t need to work in politics to live there.

By Beautiful Day

August 20, 2008 11:34 AM | Link to this

and after you’ve had your abortion, we want you to have gay sex - lots of it and we want everyone to pray to TREES and SPOTTED OWLS and Barbara Streisand

HAHAHAHAHA!

By Bruno

August 20, 2008 11:37 AM | Link to this

Sheesh. It’s sad to see working-class people fighting so hard against the possibility of having some bargaining power against their exploiters. Do you really enjoy being a slave THAT much?

CopyLeft—If you can set aside the histrionics, maybe we can have some intelligent discussion here. Mara’s post at 11:13 raises some good questions; your posts don’t accomplish anything other than demonizing those who are at the top. It’s obvious to me that you’ve never started or managed a company. If you had, your attitude would be a little different.

That’s often true, Gale… but in this case, I was pointing to scientists. People who have actually studied the subject and stated their (testable) conclusions.

I’m very sure that no one wants to go through the Evolution debate again, but you’re flat wrong if you believe that Darwinian Evolution is on solid scientific footing. The “Big Bang” is not a testable hypothesis in any way. It’s science fiction predicated upon the simple observation that the Universe appears to be expanding. Ditto for the Origins of Life. While I agree with you that Biblical Creationism has too many gaps to be considered a comprehensive scientific theory (which it was never intended to be anyway), on the other side of the fence, the “scientists” you seem to respect so highly are now proposing their own brand of Creationism to explain the leap from non-living to living. The bottom line is that we will likely never fully understand the biggest mysteries of life. As such, why waste so much energy trying to prove who is “right”?

By Mara

August 20, 2008 11:40 AM | Link to this

Just a point that seems to be missing in Truth’s black-and-white world…

Yes, unions can become burdensome. Yes, there are cases where demands are made simply to ensure the union’s continued existance. Yes, unions can grow large enough as to become unresponsive to real world conditions. And yes, leadership can become disconnected from the rank and file. I concede those points.

but…without unions, employee’s would still be at the whim and mercy of their employers. Much as Bob Cratchit was beholden to Scrooge. We’d still have child labor, workplace discrimination and harrassment, unsafe workplaces, and absolutely no recourse for abused workers.

Wal-Mart and Costco both make decent profit. One is unionized and one isn’t. Which company has happier employee’s and is ultimatley a better partner to society? I don’t have a problem with businesses making a profit, not even an exhorbitant profit. But to pretend that all Unions are eeeeevil and all bosses good…well, that’s too simplistic and too obviously false for words.

By Bruno

August 20, 2008 11:46 AM | Link to this

and after you’ve had your abortion, we want you to have gay sex - lots of it and we want everyone to pray to TREES and SPOTTED OWLS and Barbara Streisand

HAHAHAHAHA!

Hey there, “Beautiful Day”. Glad you’re feeling well. I gotta admit that I got a big laugh out of USinUK’s rebuttal as well. I think she could give you a run for the money in the creativity dept.

By USinUK

August 20, 2008 11:55 AM | Link to this

Mara -

you’ve forgotten the biggest supporting point for unions - Germany and France are both thoroughly unionized and are manufacturing powerhouses. unemployment is only slightly higher than in the US (Germany is 7.8% vs. US 5.7%).

and their employees are just as demanding about pay increases, etc, so why are those companies not just surviving but thriving? because they build a better product. their leaders are visionaries who want to make a good product, not just a cheap one.

but, yeah, it’s aaaaaaaalllllllllll the unions’ fault.

By Bruno

August 20, 2008 11:58 AM | Link to this

Companies exist to make a profit. Let me repeat that: Companies exist to make a profit.

You can worship at the alter of the All Mighty Bottom Line as you like but Business Profit is not the be-all end-all of the economy. Henry Ford, for all his faults, had the common sense to understand that if there’s nobody with enough disposable income to buy your product, there’s no sense in producing it. That’s why he paid his workers well over the prevailing wage.

Truth and Mara—Actually you’re both right in your assertions. Which is why this issue is a complicated one. From my perspective, a lot of American corporations began choosing short-term profits over long-term stability somewhere back in the 1990s. Is that wrong to do that? The easy answer is to say “yes”, but it’s probably a little more complex than that when considering the volatile nature of a tech-driven economy like we have. Case in point is AOL. Once dial-up internet service became a thing of the past, they likely should have sold off their assets and called it a day instead of dying a slow, painful death. More locally, Hayes modems were “it” in the mid 1990s. Because they didn’t develop new technologies quickly enough, in a short time they were out of business. I believe Dennis Hayes saw it coming and bailed out with his pockets stuffed with many millions of dollars. Frankly, I can’t blame him, even though his business partners and employees all walked away empty-handed. When I sold my business about three years ago, I shared some of the money with my secretaries even though I wasn’t legally or even morally obligated to do so.

By Gale

August 20, 2008 12:06 PM | Link to this

Copyleft, Scientists have more credibility than most. But even scientists disagree widely on many issues.

By Bruno

August 20, 2008 12:08 PM | Link to this

but…without unions, employee’s would still be at the whim and mercy of their employers. Much as Bob Cratchit was beholden to Scrooge. We’d still have child labor, workplace discrimination and harrassment, unsafe workplaces, and absolutely no recourse for abused workers.

Mara—There is no disagreement that unions were instrumental in making the workplace more reasonable around the turn of the century. Can you still say the same thing today?

As for child labor laws, I’m damn glad that my earliest employers didn’t adhere to strict enforcement of those laws. I needed the money, and didn’t care that I was being “exploited”. Of course I always lied about my age, but I’m sure they knew that I was too young. One of the funniest moments I had when I was 12 was when I worked for a Chinese restaurant. The owner came to me and said that the grass needed to be cut. When I asked where the lawnmower was, she handed me a pair of scissors. No lie.

By Bruno

August 20, 2008 12:15 PM | Link to this

you’ve forgotten the biggest supporting point for unions - Germany and France are both thoroughly unionized and are manufacturing powerhouses. unemployment is only slightly higher than in the US (Germany is 7.8% vs. US 5.7%).

Are you really comparing apples with apples here, USinUK? For starters, the standard of living in France is far below ours. Secondly, 7.8% unemployment is nothing to brag about. Finally, try to become a citizen in either France or Germany and let me know how you make out. IMO, they aren’t really the bastions of tolerance that they claim to be.

By Bruno

August 20, 2008 12:24 PM | Link to this

Copyleft, Scientists have more credibility than most. But even scientists disagree widely on many issues.

Gale—you came on board after my blogging days came to an end, but you speak a lot of wisdom. I’m not really sure why CopyLeft continues to make a blind appeal to authority concerning scientific opinions when the real truth is that there isn’t any firm consensus among scientists regarding global warming, Evolution, the Origin of Life, etc. I just wish the b******* would leave my food alone. The FDA can claim all day that genetically altered foods are exactly the same as what Mother Nature has given us, but having studied nutrition extensively, I’m not convinced.

By Gale

August 20, 2008 12:28 PM | Link to this

Mara, outdated and obsolete “technology”, When I lived in Michigan a friend worked in the auto industry for a short time and bailed. She told me the union guys were sabataging the new, improved equipment because it would end up being more productive and cost the employees overtime and jobs. So, it was partly a union problem, though maybe just a people problem. It is also true short-sighted management has caused American businesses to fail. We are in it together.

Bruno, Interesting note about depression. I did a horoscope for a friend some years back. He was probably about 50 at the time. I saw a repeating pattern of potential deep depression related to a Saturn transit (if I remember correctly). It was a seven or 14 year thing. When I told him the ages when the transit would have been in effect, he related three periods of his life when depression was very serious. One time, it was suicidally serious. It was a relief to him to know the events were related and that they would pass, just as the others had. It was especially beneficial to him to know when the current depression was likely to let up, because he was then certain it wouldn’t just keep getting worse. You may want to think back to other such periods to see if there is any time period correlation to your depression.

By HoHoFree

August 20, 2008 12:28 PM | Link to this

Finally, try to become a citizen in either France or Germany and let me know how you make out

and what exactly does that have to do with their ECONOMIC prowess/capabilities? Are those two countries blaming their alleged inability to have a robust economy on their unions?

do you still call them FreedomFries?

By Bruno

August 20, 2008 12:28 PM | Link to this

Gotta run. I’ll resume my obsessive posting in a short while. Too bad there’s not way to make money from blogging…..It can be a lot of fun, however.

By USinUK

August 20, 2008 12:32 PM | Link to this

Bruno -

For starters, the standard of living in France is far below ours.

according to whom? and what’s their measurement? their health care is great, their infant mortality rating is better than ours. and their cheese and wine … ooo, lala!!!

Secondly, 7.8% unemployment is nothing to brag about.

actually, 7.8% unemployment is something to brag about. especially given the open borders you get with the EU (which translates into allowing a citizen from any EU country to enter your country and work legally).

Finally, try to become a citizen in either France or Germany and let me know how you make out. IMO, they aren’t really the bastions of tolerance that they claim to be.

um. do you have any idea how hard it is to become a US citizen ??? it’s no walk in the park - it’s expensive and takes years. (not to mention, what does that have to do with union labor???)

By Gale

August 20, 2008 12:38 PM | Link to this

I spent a little time with heirloom seeds back when my ex was going to be a farmer when he grew up. It was interesting to me that the nutritional value in the heirloom produce was documented as being more nutritious than the hybrid varieties that were developed as better producing or more disease or pest resistent. Corn was always given as an example of a food left with very little nutrition after being fiddled with to make it more productive. I imagine the twiddling with genes might have the same outcome.

Thanks for the compliment. I suspect I have said many things here that would cause others to seriously doubt my knowledge, if not my wisdom, which are frequently not the same thing.

By Truth

August 20, 2008 12:39 PM | Link to this

Mara

I’m glad you clarified that unions are not perfect and sometimes the union is at fault. You were sounding black and white, yourself. i had already said a couple of times that Unions definitely had their place and that they still do some good.

I woud appreciate it if you would back off of the personal attacks a little. I’m trying, myself. We all present our sides as black and white. That doesn’t mean that we are robots any more than you are a robot when you only present the liberal side.

By USinUK

August 20, 2008 12:46 PM | Link to this

Gale -

Corn was always given as an example of a food left with very little nutrition after being fiddled with to make it more productive. I imagine the twiddling with genes might have the same outcome.

I’m w/ ya, sister … not to mention, I’m not digging the idea of having a huge conglomerate controlling the food supply (you want to buy our corn seeds? oh, hey, looky-there … the price just went up 50%) … it’s asking for OPEC all over again … and, if you thought going without oil is tough, try going without food …

By Truth

August 20, 2008 12:58 PM | Link to this

Gale

The vast majority of jobs on an auto assembly line could be eliminated with robots. American Unions hold back that technology to protect the jobs of it’s members. If you ever get the chance of touring the GM assembly plant in Doraville (better hurry, it’s gone in a couple of years) you will see robots that can find a weld point, do a perfect weld , spin the car around do another perfect weld at the next exact place and move on, do dozens of these perfect welds and then move on.

All around these incredibly efficient robots are slow moving, complacent people screwing in light bulbs and man-handling car seats into place while another worker slowly tightens the bolts that hold the seats into the car. It is almost funny if it weren’t so sad. Henry Ford meet Neal Armstrong.

Germany and France both lead the world in Robotic technology. The French trains (MARTA uses French trains) are built in an almost completely robotic environment. It’s easy to go all Unions when robots have replaced most of your work force.

But that’s not going to happen here. Japan kills us with robotics. Their cars are so much better built than ours. Have you ever heard the old saying of “Never buy an American car that was built on a Monday or a Friday”? That’s because the work force is always greatly reduced because so many people take the day off. On Mondays in Japan, France, Germany and most of the civilized world, robots are hard at work, keeping their standards incredibly higher than ours could ever be.

I won’t make the connection between unions and the fact that our cars suck. But it is not a hard one to make.

By Mara

August 20, 2008 1:03 PM | Link to this

Bruno - Both of your husbands are very fortunate to have smart, loving partners like yourselves. Maybe I’ll be so fortunate one day. Things were going pretty well with my friend in Miami until she started asking me for money…Any suggestions as to where to meet a really smart girl?

aren’t you a sweetie! <<hug>> I’m with USinUK on this, run and run fast! I also agree that DC would be a great place to meet intelligent ladies. Also the Minneapolis area, as unlikely as it seems.

Now, this may not be your cup o’ joe but…I have a friend who joined a group called FunForSingles here in Atlanta. They organize group activities like poker night, rafting, and Martinis at IMAX. She says that it’s one of the best things she’s done in a long time, even though she hasn’t met anyone special yet. The part she likes the best is that there’s no expectation that people will start pairing up so everybody’s free to just have some no-pressure fun and make some friends.

btw, I’m sorry you’re feeling down. We may not know you in real life, but we love ya on the blog.

By USinUK

August 20, 2008 1:11 PM | Link to this

Truth -

It’s easy to go all Unions when robots have replaced most of your work force.

please, to cite source. cuz the math, it doesn’t add up. if robotics had replaced their work force, their unemployment wouldn’t be in the single-digits.

… unless there were German tumbleweeds rolling around Checkpoint Charlie …

By Mara

August 20, 2008 1:18 PM | Link to this

Truth - I woud appreciate it if you would back off of the personal attacks a little.

“Personal attack”!? I read over my posts and saw nothing that would qualify as an “attack”, let alone a personal attack…

By Bruno

August 20, 2008 2:04 PM | Link to this

Hey guys—back for a few minutes.

according to whom? and what’s their measurement? their health care is great, their infant mortality rating is better than ours. and their cheese and wine … ooo, lala!!!

I was simply comparing GDPs per capita, USinUK. I don’t know what year these stats are from, but according to this chart, the USA rings in at more than 40K per person while France and Germany are around 28K per person. Big difference. As such, I don’t see how the strong unions are helping them. Here’s a link:

http://education.yahoo.com/reference/factbook/countrycompare/gdp/1a.html

actually, 7.8% unemployment is something to brag about. especially given the open borders you get with the EU (which translates into allowing a citizen from any EU country to enter your country and work legally).

Geographically, the EU is similar in size to the US, so I think comparing the two as a unit is valid. And since when have the borders of the US ever been truly closed?

um. do you have any idea how hard it is to become a US citizen ??? it’s no walk in the park - it’s expensive and takes years. (not to mention, what does that have to do with union labor???)

My point here is that the benefits of citizenship aren’t made available in the two countries you referenced as being superior to the US. Ditto for Japan. France lets the African Muslims come in, but never gives them the respect that goes along with citizenship. In my understanding, that’s what led directly to the unrest the past few years in France. It may be expensive and difficult to become a citizen in the US, but at least it’s possible.

I understand that by all measures the US is no longer #1, but at least we still offer a fair chance to join the club. I’ll have to take your word about the wine being better in France since I’m not a wine drinker. On the rare occasions that I drink, I prefer Jack Daniels or Wild Turkey mixed with Coke. Occasionally I’ll go for a strawberry daiquiri or a frozen pina colada.

By Bruno

August 20, 2008 2:14 PM | Link to this

Thanks for the compliment. I suspect I have said many things here that would cause others to seriously doubt my knowledge, if not my wisdom, which are frequently not the same thing.

Don’t be so modest, Gale. From what I’ve read in your posts, you have both knowledge and wisdom. I do agree with you that they aren’t the same thing, which remains my complaint with the modern-day “scientists” who call the shots at the FDA. They still won’t allow accurate labeling of milk which calls attention to the fact that the cows are being shot up with BGH along with a host of antibiotics. Their explanation is that they don’t want the public to become falsely alarmed. What a crock. I enjoyed your explanation of the diminishing nutritional value of corn. Ditto for the plastic “tomatoes” sold in supermarkets these days. They breed them to have tough skins, pick them while they’re still green, then gas them with nitrogen so that they have an orange color. Gag me with a spoon.

I’ll tell you what: If you’re too modest to brag, I’ll do the bragging for you. You’re one smart cookie, as are Mara, USinUK, and Lyrazel.

By Bruno

August 20, 2008 2:23 PM | Link to this

“Personal attack”!? I read over my posts and saw nothing that would qualify as an “attack”, let alone a personal attack…

No offense, Truth, but I’m siding with Mara on this one. In my blogging experience, she has been one of the fairest bloggers, and least prone to fall back on name-calling, all liberal bias aside. Ditto for USinUK. Two sweethearts. I’m glad to hear you’ve made a commitment to cut back on the name-calling yourself. I used to be one of the worst, but have mellowed a little the past few months since returning to work.

I have a friend who joined a group called FunForSingles here in Atlanta.

Thanks for the tip, Mara. If I ever get my self-confidence back, I’ll give it a try. I’m more of a one-on-one type of guy, but wouldn’t mind being part of a group of singles. BTW, is your friend cute? I’m frequently told that I look a lot like Robin Williams when I smile. Plus, I’ve got the coolest Jerry Garcia tattoo on my back. ; > }

By chuck

August 20, 2008 2:28 PM | Link to this

It’s flat-out an attempt to scare people into voting a particular way.

Sort of like when the democrat party tells old people that the Republicans are going to take away their social security or when they tell blacks that Republicans are going to bring back Jim Crow laws, huh BC?

By Gale

August 20, 2008 2:32 PM | Link to this

Back to an earlier comment about unskilled workers and high wages. I do remember that janitors were highly overpaid in auto plants. Now how much exactly is “overpaid” I cannot put a $ figure to. I would call that an unskilled job. I would also say it probably does not have much more “worth” than frying burgers at MacD’s. Nearly the same risks: keep limbs and fingers away from machinery. I met some “machinists” who really did nothing more than hold a hydrolic ‘bolt-screwing-in-machine’. Gosh, you gotta put the thing in the right place and press the button. Not really a skilled job and hardly qualifies as a mchinist. Is it any wonder these guys balk at working some other lower paying job and refuse the believe their auto industry jobs won’t come back?

By Truth

August 20, 2008 2:43 PM | Link to this

Mara

Not a big deal. it was just this:

Just a point that seems to be missing in Truth’s black-and-white world…

I resent that. Not many Republicans talk about Iraq as being a war for the protection of our oil source. Not many Republicans have the number of gay friends, particularly gay women friends that I have. As I said before, everyone here presents issues as being B&W. Don’t single me out as being able to only see things in a yes or no world when everybody here does the same thing.

OK?

By Bruno

August 20, 2008 2:44 PM | Link to this

Sort of like when the democrat party tells old people that the Republicans are going to take away their social security or when they tell blacks that Republicans are going to bring back Jim Crow laws, huh BC?

Hey chuck—How did you like CopyLeft’s explanation of how he found the crackpot talkorigins.org website? It’s been close to two years ago that “Brian Curtis” mentioned that site, but somehow CopyLeft carried that info for all that time….. Quite a story.

I agree with you that the fear-mongering wind blows both ways. My question is, who is going to lead us out of the mess were in? I don’t know how bad the economy is in terms of real numbers, but the average citizen is scared to death right now. Hopefully the falling gas prices will help. I filled up for $3.55 yesterday. Not great, but it saved me nearly $8 per tank.

By Gale

August 20, 2008 2:53 PM | Link to this

“I prefer Jack Daniels or Wild Turkey mixed with Coke.” Gasp! What a horrible thought. And just when you were seriously on my good side.

As for meeting people, Bruno, I met my honey in a message group. And I have another coworker who moved here from Sweden to marry after meeting his honey in an online game universe. I highly recommend the web for meeting people who may share your interests; not a group like this that has different topics all the time and definitely not a chat room. Look for a place where people are sharing about math and science if those are your passions. My place was a writing group. Once you get to know someone who shares your interests, what she looks like and what you look like becomes rather unimportant.

By Bruno

August 20, 2008 2:58 PM | Link to this

I resent that. Not many Republicans talk about Iraq as being a war for the protection of our oil source. Not many Republicans have the number of gay friends, particularly gay women friends that I have. As I said before, everyone here presents issues as being B&W. Don’t single me out as being able to only see things in a yes or no world when everybody here does the same thing.

Lighten up with Mara, Truth. Her slight to you was pretty minor. No need to start WW-IV over it. In the end, I don’t take national politics very seriously anymore. Outside of raising or lowering taxes, politicians have very little real impact on my life.

Both Mara and kimberly have complained in the past as being wrongly stereotyped by conservatives, so hopefully they will understand that those of us on the “other side of the aisle” don’t like it either. We’re all in it together, for better or worse.

By Truth

August 20, 2008 2:58 PM | Link to this

bruno

So the Ukrainian that you were seeing was in Miami? That is so weird. The Ukrainian that i have been seeing went to Miami for a job interview, but was meet with a very slimy guy that was going to be her boss that had rented her a hotel room with his personal credit card and had already checked out a room key when she went to the hotel. She immediately went to the airport and came home.

I thought I had lost here because Miami is such an exciting place. But she said that the men were pigs and the women dressed like hookers.

You sound better today. That singles thing that Mara was talking about sounds great. MUCH better than having to meet someone on a one to one basis. Just go have fun and if you meet someone, so much the better.

A tip for that confidence. Before you go, go get new clothes. all the way down to the undies. Get your hair cut. Whiten your teeth Have your car detailed. Do several things to make yourself feel good before you go. Women love a big smile and a very positive attitude. (At least that has been my experience) Start conversations and shut up. If a woman is talking to you, she probably likes you. Once she starts talking, just let her go. As much as i love to talk about what I do for a living, when I meet someone, they are much more impressed if they have to pull it out of me.

By chuck

August 20, 2008 3:07 PM | Link to this

according to whom? and what’s their measurement? their health care is great, their infant mortality rating is better than ours. and their cheese and wine … ooo, lala!!!

That’s Sooooo USinUK. She googled it, found out ol’ Brudog was right and tried to play it off by throwing in a couple of minor indicators where those countries were a little ahead of the US.

By Truth

August 20, 2008 3:08 PM | Link to this

Gale

Once you get to know someone who shares your interests, what she looks like and what you look like becomes rather unimportant.

Gotta disagree. I also know a lot of people that have met over the internet, but the couples that seem to be doing great are the people that met face to face. There are a lot of women that are interested in what I do and my music, but not many that I would want to date. I am not only crazy about the woman I am seeing because we have a lot of the same interests, but I love the way she carries herself. She’s attractive, but I first saw her when she was quite a distance away from me and I knew then that I wanted to meet her, and i couldn’t tell whether she was attractive or not. There a lot to be said for that “eyes meeting from across the room” thing.

By Bruno

August 20, 2008 3:09 PM | Link to this

I prefer Jack Daniels or Wild Turkey mixed with Coke. Gasp! What a horrible thought. And just when you were seriously on my good side.

Ha Ha Ha. Sorry to blow the good will so soon. So what’s wrong with a little Turkey, anyway? Not sophisticated enough? This is the South, after all, fer cryin’ out loud! Like Archie Bunker said, “When in Rome, do as the Romaines”.

Once you get to know someone who shares your interests, what she looks like and what you look like becomes rather unimportant.

I don’t think I can totally agree with you on that one, Gale. In H.S., one of my best friends was a girl who was smart and who was interested in math and science. However, I felt no physical attraction to her at all, so nothing ever developed romantically. On the other end of the spectrum, I’ve dated a few Miss America types. The “romance” was great, but none ever lasted due to a lack of mutual interests. I think there has to be at least some physical attraction to keep the spark alive. I know, I probably shouldn’t be so picky……

By Gale

August 20, 2008 3:12 PM | Link to this

Very true comment about letting other people talk, Truth. I try to keep other people talking. Sometimes it gets to be a drag on days when I seem to be the corporate counseller. Most times, it just makes people feel good about themselves because someone thinks they are interesting. You make someone feel good about themself, they think you are great too. Of course, there are times when I cannot keep my mouth shut and I keep interrupting; bad, bad habit that.

By chuck

August 20, 2008 3:15 PM | Link to this

Hey chuck—How did you like CopyLeft’s explanation of how he found the crackpot talkorigins.org website? It’s been close to two years ago that “Brian Curtis” mentioned that site, but somehow CopyLeft carried that info for all that time….. Quite a story.

I agree Brudog. He thinks he’s being sly, but it’s pretty transparent.

Hey BC, how’s that job as a “scientist” going? Test any good blood samples in that “lab” lately?

By Bruno

August 20, 2008 3:16 PM | Link to this

So the Ukrainian that you were seeing was in Miami? That is so weird

No, buddy, the girl in Miami is a Dominican. If you ever saw her picture, you would freak. She makes the Paraguayan girl in the Olympics look like a dog. She is achingly beautiful, but I’m holding out for real love.

My Ukrainian friend, who is also very beautiful, lives here in Atlanta. Unfortunately, she is always busy with work and school, so I hardly ever got to see her. Plus, she is only 26, so I couldn’t expect her to stay with me for the long haul.

Before you go, go get new clothes. all the way down to the undies.

I guess I could probably use a wardrobe update.

Start conversations and shut up. If a woman is talking to you, she probably likes you. Once she starts talking, just let her go.

Hmmm. Could be a problem there. I have a bad habit of dominating conversations. I’m sure none of you ever noticed…… ; > }

By Mara

August 20, 2008 3:16 PM | Link to this

Bruno - I was simply comparing GDPs per capita

I think maybe some confusion ensued because “standard of living” (which was what you cited) and “quality of life” (which USinUK referenced) are often used interchangably, though they shouldn’t be.

One can have a great quality of life (joie de vivre) regardless of one’s standard of living (economic well being).

is your friend cute?

She cleans up nice, but it’s an effort for her. She’s one of those people who, with the application of a little lipstick and a curling iron, can turn heads…but who chooses not to expend the effort. She just doesn’t see the point in putting on make-up to run errands or spending hours in the store looking for the perfect pair of jeans. That’s one reason she likes these group outings. If you’re going white water rafting or mountain biking, nobody expects you to be perfectly turned out. Not to say that she doesn’t like a fancy shindig every now and then. :-)

chuck - Sort of like when the democrat party tells old people that the Republicans are going to take away their social security

the thing is, chuck, that Republicans have historically been hostile to Social Security and make no bones about how much they want to get rid it. Replacing Social Security with “Personal Retirement Accounts” wasn’t a suggestion from the left, that’s for sure! The charge that “…Republicans are going to take away their social security” may be debatable, but not because y’all ain’t trying…just because you have yet to succeed.

It’s one thing to warn people about something that the other guy admits to in substance but denies in rhetoric, and quite another to make a charge that is nothing more than one’s scurrilous opinion of motive, i.e. “Liberals want to see the terrorists win”

By Truth

August 20, 2008 3:20 PM | Link to this

Bruno

I’m trying to lighten up. So drop it. I think she understands what i said. That’s a far as I would like for it to go. If she still wants to discuss it, that is fine.

I know i can be a real jerk. I’m trying to do better. If I didn’t respect her opinion I wouldn’t have said anything.

By Gale

August 20, 2008 3:24 PM | Link to this

Not the Turkey, man. The COKE! Coke in good sippin’ whiskey?! No, no,no,no! A little water, maybe. OK, and ice cube. But coke? Say it ain’t so!

Interesting, two guys say she has to be pretty. No, I won’t say it.

By Bruno

August 20, 2008 3:26 PM | Link to this

That’s Sooooo USinUK. She googled it, found out ol’ Brudog was right and tried to play it off by throwing in a couple of minor indicators where those countries were a little ahead of the US.

True, but you gotta love her anyway!

Gotta disagree. I also know a lot of people that have met over the internet, but the couples that seem to be doing great are the people that met face to face. There are a lot of women that are interested in what I do and my music, but not many that I would want to date. I am not only crazy about the woman I am seeing because we have a lot of the same interests, but I love the way she carries herself. She’s attractive, but I first saw her when she was quite a distance away from me and I knew then that I wanted to meet her, and i couldn’t tell whether she was attractive or not. There a lot to be said for that “eyes meeting from across the room” thing.

I’ve heard the same thing about internet dating, Truth. It only works if you meet right away. The longer you chat before meeting, the odds go way down that you’ll hit it off in person.

Gale, I hope you have been around long enough to know that 99.9% of men are pretty shallow when it comes to how a woman looks. We’re all dogs, even the gay men. Sorry, but that’s just how it is.

By Mara

August 20, 2008 3:29 PM | Link to this

hey Gale…I read an article the other day, don’t remember where, which suggested that the dates one commonly uses to find ones sun sign are wrong because of some kind of rotational anomoly or some such.

Any truth that I may NOT be the artistic, intelligent, self-contained Aquarian I’ve always considered myself to be? I mean, I don’t WANT to be a Capricorn…

By Bruno

August 20, 2008 3:39 PM | Link to this

Hey BC, how’s that job as a “scientist” going? Test any good blood samples in that “lab” lately?

The other big clue came when “CopyLeft” refused to answer any questions about his sexuality a while back (Translation: gay). BC also wouldn’t fess up about his “orientation”. At least 72John was honest about his preference.

She cleans up nice, but it’s an effort for her. She’s one of those people who, with the application of a little lipstick and a curling iron, can turn heads…but who chooses not to expend the effort. She just doesn’t see the point in putting on make-up to run errands or spending hours in the store looking for the perfect pair of jeans. That’s one reason she likes these group outings. If you’re going white water rafting or mountain biking, nobody expects you to be perfectly turned out. Not to say that she doesn’t like a fancy shindig every now and then. :-)

No problem there, Mara. I actually prefer girls who don’t wear makeup, and who are physically active. “Cosmo” girls turn me off. Who knows, maybe I’ll meet your friend one day……Does she like reformed hippies? (Well, maybe not totally reformed, but I’m working on it.)

It’s one thing to warn people about something that the other guy admits to in substance but denies in rhetoric, and quite another to make a charge that is nothing more than one’s scurrilous opinion of motive, i.e. “Liberals want to see the terrorists win”

C’mon, Mara, I know you’re smart enough to know that both political parties use fear-mongering as a political tactic.

Not the Turkey, man. The COKE! Coke in good sippin’ whiskey?! No, no,no,no! A little water, maybe. OK, and ice cube. But coke? Say it ain’t so!

I get you now, Gale…. Call me a wimp, but I need a mixer in order to drink the hard stuff.

Interesting, two guys say she has to be pretty. No, I won’t say it.

The I’ll say it for you—Men are pigs, vermin, dogs, scum. With no hope of reform.

By Truth

August 20, 2008 3:45 PM | Link to this

gale

Of course, there are times when I cannot keep my mouth shut and I keep interrupting; bad, bad habit that.

I do that, too especially if I get excited about having so many things in common. I just don’t want to date again at least for a while. I try not to do it, but I am much more tolerant of anything my GF does if I start thinking about dating. Probably not a good thing. I wonder if she is doing the same thing.

By Bruno

August 20, 2008 3:48 PM | Link to this

Any truth that I may NOT be the artistic, intelligent, self-contained Aquarian I’ve always considered myself to be? I mean, I don’t WANT to be a Capricorn…

You’re definitely an Aquarian, Mara, don’t sweat it. I tried to date a Capricorn once, but her mountain goat personality stepped all over my poor Virgin Crab. BTW, the true love of my life is an Aquarian. Unfortunately I blew it with her due to some anger issues. I still miss her every day. I also had to throw in the towel when it comes to Geminis.

What is your moon sign?

By Gale

August 20, 2008 3:52 PM | Link to this

Mara, since Astrology is based on thousands of years of observation, I strongly doubt the numbers would be off by much. If, however, your birthday is on a cusp of Capricorn/Aquarius, a few hours may make a difference. As one Aquarian to another, I wouldn’t want to be any other sign. … I almost wrote a bunch about the time of day and how mistaking the birth time can make a reading incorrect, but to save you all from the need to scroll through it, I stopped myself.

By Truth

August 20, 2008 3:52 PM | Link to this

Bruno

So what’s wrong with a little Turkey, anyway?

it’s not the Jack Daniels. It’s the coke. i’m from Tennessee. Do you know what we do in Tennessee to people who mix Jack Daniels with Coke? You mix Jack Daniels with ice … if you have to.

Actually i like Scotch. I drank a lot of Jack when I was touring because people would buy it for me when they found out that we were from Tennessee. (Go Vols!!)

By USinUK

August 20, 2008 3:55 PM | Link to this

Bruno -

I was simply comparing GDPs per capita, USinUK. I don’t know what year these stats are from, but according to this chart, the USA rings in at more than 40K per person while France and Germany are around 28K per person. Big difference. As such, I don’t see how the strong unions are helping them. Here’s a link:

checked out the link … wow … turns out I have it way worse here in the UK than I did when I was in the US … but I still manage to live in a house worth $750K, drive a nice car (not that we have to drive it much since the Mass Trans is so good) … have health care whether or not I’m employed … have dental care whether or not I’m employed …

… in other words, there’s more to “standard of living” than income per capita.

…

meanwhile … thanks for the many kind words !! I hope you find a way to cope with the depression (whether it’s therapy, meds, or using sports to help your chemistry) - I can’t imagine how draining it must be. Just know that you have a whole passle of peeps here cheering you on :-)

By chuck

August 20, 2008 3:58 PM | Link to this

Yeah Brudog. I’ve had my suspicions since he first showed up as copyleft. Somebody was asking me about something I said years ago and I went back to look for the quote and re-read a couple of BC’s posts. He and his alter ego used a lot of the same phrasing.

I’m also pretty convinced that jokeson is the old “fatmoose” that used to post here. It is uncanny the way they both “abuse the language” in the same way and use the same kind of clipped shortcuts. He denies it, but I would be SHOCKED if I’m wrong about it.

I wish Kimberly would reclaim her name and quit using multiple pseudonyms. It’s more comfortable arguing with people you know.

See you all tomorrow (unless the “late night” posting is available again.

By USinUK

August 20, 2008 3:59 PM | Link to this

Chuck -

That’s Sooooo USinUK. She googled it, found out ol’ Brudog was right and tried to play it off by throwing in a couple of minor indicators where those countries were a little ahead of the US.

some of us live in a fact and statistic-based universe (rather than you’re little lala-land of “the way I believe them to be”) … if someone starts talking about “standard of living”, I want to know what their criteria are.

By Truth

August 20, 2008 3:59 PM | Link to this

Bruno

Could be a problem there. I have a bad habit of dominating conversations. I’m sure none of you ever noticed…… ; > }

Gotta think: James Bond. Strong, silent, mysterious. Clothes are important as is nice white teeth. It makes you look younger and makes it easy to smile, and the girls like a good smile. An interested look will do more than anything you could ever say.

The best pick up line in the world is: Really? So what did you do then?

By Truth

August 20, 2008 4:04 PM | Link to this

Gale

Not the Turkey, man. The COKE! Coke in good sippin’ whiskey?! No, no,no,no! A little water, maybe. OK, and ice cube. But coke? Say it ain’t so!

I think I am falling in love. Are you sure you want to be gay?

By Gale

August 20, 2008 4:07 PM | Link to this

Guy, ok, so you admit guys are shallow when it comes to women. It’s one of those gender-based things.

So Bruno, are you a virgo or a cancer? I am not sure from the way you phrased it. For what it’s worth, I generally look at the whole chart and not just the sun signs. I’m Aquarius and the love of my life is a virgo. The major thing though is I have a preponderance of water and air in my chart and she has earth and fire. We balance each other nicely. But maybe that isn’t important to a guy.

By Bruno

August 20, 2008 4:11 PM | Link to this

As one Aquarian to another

I just knew there was something about you I liked, Gale. According to Linda Goodman’s “Love Signs”, Virgo and Aquarius aren’t a natural match, but I’m still in love with my Aquarian friend.

What are your moon sign, Venus, and Mars signs? I’m moon in Cancer. Quoting from “Love on a Rotten Day”: “If you think Cancer Suns are hopeless victims of their emotions, a Cancer Moon kicks any Sun sign’s whine factor up several notches.The Moon may be at home in Cancer, but it’s more Psycho House than Happy Days” According to Hazel Dixon-Cooper, Cancer Moons are natural manic depressives. And Virgo Sun signs are natural obsessive-compulsives.

Hopefully, one day, chuck will admit that he’s a Taurus.

What is your horoscope, Truth?

By Archie

August 20, 2008 4:19 PM | Link to this

Since someone mentioned Jack Daniels, how do y’all feel about this push to get the drinking age lowered? My personal opinion is that it needs to stay just like it is. I agree with MADD in the sense that traffic deaths will rise once you lower the drinking age. In fact the reason the drinking age was raised was because young folk couldn’t manage their liquor and I have not seen anything to make me believe that’s changed. When I was 18 it was legal to drink beer and wine but not liquor and it seemed to work except as time passed and different generations of 18-year olds came up they seemed to be less mature, thus the 21 law was put into place. What I think needs to change in every state is that politicians need to get taxes at a level to fund government for things the people want. People need better enforcement of the law in just about every way but you have to pay people and I think once you get law enforcement staffed properly then you can enforce the drinking laws properly but lowering the drinking age because folk don’t want to follow the law is not progressive. In my opinion, young folk just don’t handle drinking very well as I attend bars quite often and I witness some rather stupid behavior.

By Bruno

August 20, 2008 4:21 PM | Link to this

checked out the link … wow … turns out I have it way worse here in the UK than I did when I was in the US … but I still manage to live in a house worth $750K, drive a nice car (not that we have to drive it much since the Mass Trans is so good) … have health care whether or not I’m employed … have dental care whether or not I’m employed …

Don’t rub it in. I could have been rich, but I blew it all on partying and women. Oh well…..

meanwhile … thanks for the many kind words !! I hope you find a way to cope with the depression (whether it’s therapy, meds, or using sports to help your chemistry) - I can’t imagine how draining it must be. Just know that you have a whole passle of peeps here cheering you on :-)

You’re a jewel. I’ll probably go with the sports approach. F the meds.

Gotta think: James Bond. Strong, silent, mysterious.

Good advice, but when I’m out of my comfort zone I’m probably more like Barney Fife.

I think I am falling in love. Are you sure you want to be gay?

Took the words right out of my mouth, Truth!

I wish Kimberly would reclaim her name and quit using multiple pseudonyms. It’s more comfortable arguing with people you know.

Hopefully she’s not avoiding me, since I haven’t been posting. I did see where that JO “Gandalf the Grey” was going out of his way to be mean to her a few weeks ago. What a POS!

By Bruno

August 20, 2008 4:26 PM | Link to this

(Go Vols!!)

Hey, if you live in GA, you have to be a Bulldog fan. It’s a state law. Carpetbagger!!

I still have nightmares from a Vols game several years ago when they scored about 8 touchdowns. If I never hear the song “Rocky Top” again, that will be alright with me!

And don’t get me started on all the turncoat Auburn fans on board……Roll Tide!

By Truth

August 20, 2008 4:28 PM | Link to this

Bruno

What is your horoscope, Truth?

i think, libra. 2 PM in the afternoon. Oct. 6 is that Libra?

I never got the horoscope thing. I guess i just never got into it enough. but I did like the Fifth Dimension:

Up, up and away … in my beautiful, my beautiful ballooooooon!!!!

By Bruno

August 20, 2008 4:34 PM | Link to this

In my opinion, young folk just don’t handle drinking very well as I attend bars quite often and I witness some rather stupid behavior.

Careful, Archie, you’re telling on yourself! If I recall correctly, I think you said that you like to shoot pool, so you have an excuse.

I agree with you about the drinking age, but who waits until they’re 18 to start partying? I didn’t make it past 12 y.o. By 13, I had pretty much done it all, except for sex.

By Truth

August 20, 2008 4:37 PM | Link to this

Archie

*My personal opinion is that it needs to stay just like it is. *

I can’t believe we agree on something, but BRAVO!! Viva la Archie.

Now if we can get parents to stop giving their kids 350HP land missiles to drive to school, we may make a difference. My kid’s best friend got a 5 liter Mustang for passing all his grades at the end of his Junior year. He didn’t make it through the summer to his senior year. The cops said that it looked like he hit the tree at about 120 MPH. You couldn’t even tell what kind of car it was. At least he died instantly.

By Gale

August 20, 2008 4:43 PM | Link to this

Truth, My favorite is scotch too; Bowmore is the best IMO. But Jack Daniels has a big spot on my taste buds and my nose too. I loved it from the first sniff. Unrequited love for you. You are the wrong flavor. I am probably not pretty enough either.

I’m out for today, ttfn.

By Bruno

August 20, 2008 4:50 PM | Link to this

i think, libra. 2 PM in the afternoon. Oct. 6 is that Libra?

As for your match with Gale (or Mara for that matter), Hazel Dixon-Cooper says: Aquarius/Libra—Kind-hearted but totally mad oddball who needs honesty, breathing room, and non-jealous partner seeks kind-hearted but totally self-absorbed screwball who needs adoring declarations and one-on-one attention for short, superficial romance. Will always be friends.

As for my match with Gale, Mara, or my ex: Aquarius/Virgo—Fun-loving eccentric, affectionately nicknamed Mad Dog, with opinions on every mystery of the Universe and a freewheeling lifestyle seeks sensible stay-at-home who prefers reading about life to living it for stimulating intellectual conversation, no sex. no love, no romance.

By Truth

August 20, 2008 4:53 PM | Link to this

bruno

I’ll tell you what. If Georgia wins their schedule, they deserve to be number one. But of course if some corn fed mid western team beats their schedule of community colleges and girl’s finishing schools, they will get the number one ranking. Nobody has the schedules of SEC schools.

When I went to UT, Rocky Top was just beginning to be used. We used Down the Field as our fight song, much better. And that hillbilly Whoooo in the middle of the song embarrasses the hell out of any real Vol fan.

Should be a good year if somebody kills Phillip Fulmer. That looks like the only way we will ever get a good coach. He has taken the best players in the country every year and can’t even make the top ten. It has gone on so long that now our recruiting sucks. Fatas* hillbilly. I have gotten to the point that I don’t watch the third period anymore. How many years have we been beating the crap out of Florida and he goes conservative in the third quarter? I start standing in the middle of the floor screaming at the TV”: Somebody shoot him!! Kill him. Do anything to get his fat as* off the field.

I wanted them to get Steve Spurrier. Hell, he’s from Johnson City Tennessee. We would never lose with Tennessee’s players and him as a coach.

By Bruno

August 20, 2008 4:54 PM | Link to this

You are the wrong flavor. I am probably not pretty enough either.

The beauty of the blogosphere, Gale, is that everyone is pretty/handsome. I think you might be too hard on yourself. Enjoyed chatting with you today.

Take it easy, everyone. Enjoyed the chat today, even though no kimberly. : > {

By Truth

August 20, 2008 5:07 PM | Link to this

Bruno, Gale

Buenos Aires.

By Dr. Phil

August 20, 2008 5:46 PM | Link to this

You don’t need to take a personal inventory to run out into traffic.

By NYer

August 20, 2008 5:46 PM | Link to this

For the record, neither Jack nor Wild Turkey should be mixed anything, except ice or a splash of agua.

My personal preference is to go for the Bookers. The citrus, spice and molasses easily makes it the most flavorful small batch bourbon on the market. Double shot with three ice cubes. Wait two minutes and start the enjoyment.

If you can’t do the Bookers because 126 proof scares you off, go for the Woodford Reserve. It’s a much more manageable proof.

And if you really want to throw them off, anejo rums are making a big comeback. They’ve always been grossly underrated in my opinion, but even the mass-produced stuff like Bacardi tastes yummy over the rocks. Save the clear rums for the mixing, but drink your dark rums pretty much straight.

Enjoy and drink responsibly.

By Gale

August 20, 2008 8:03 PM | Link to this

Geez, first you guys say you are shallow, then you come on all relationshippy. Maybe its just relationshippy online, but purely physical in person?

Bruno, Moon in Aries. It is the only fire I have. It keeps people from walking all over my Mars Venus conjunction in Pisces. Truth, Libra I believe, But again, it takes more than the sun sign,

Archie, when I was a kid, Ohio had low beer that 18 year olds could drink. 3.2 alchohol. You had to drink a lot to get a buzz and spent so much time in the john, you couldn’t drive far at any one time. It was good for polka parties too. Things went down hill when they stopped that.

By chuck

August 20, 2008 9:28 PM | Link to this

According to the newspaper Brudog, I too am an aquarius, but I think astrolgy is a load of crap. I’ve never actually read mine before today.

By Bruno

August 20, 2008 10:54 PM | Link to this

Geez, first you guys say you are shallow, then you come on all relationshippy. Maybe its just relationshippy online, but purely physical in person?

ROTFLMAO! Gotta keep you guessing, dear! You’re alright, Gale, no matter what they say about you! ; > }

Bruno, Moon in Aries. It is the only fire I have. It keeps people from walking all over my Mars Venus conjunction in Pisces. Truth, Libra I believe, But again, it takes more than the sun sign

Not much fire in my chart either. My Mercury and Venus are in Libra, with Mars in Gemini. It’s interesting that your partner has a “complementary” chart. I seem to do best with the water signs, esp Pisces.

It was good for polka parties too. Things went down hill when they stopped that.

I was a Ukrainian dancer as a teenager, so did quite a bit of Polka dancing at the parties after the shows. A few shots of Vodka definitely gets you in the Polka mood.

According to the newspaper Brudog, I too am an aquarius, but I think astrolgy is a load of crap. I’ve never actually read mine before today.

I don’t pay much attention to the daily horoscopes in the newspaper, but do find the birth chart characteristics to have a lot of validity. If you want to get the full low-down on your chart, chuck, go to:

astro.cafeastrology.com

You can get a free birth chart report as well as check on your compatibility with your wife. Let me know what it says.

P.S. to Mara—I went ahead and joined up at FunForSingles tonight. I won’t be able to go to many of the activities due to my late work schedule, but hope to see your friend there sometime. She sounds like a pretty cool chick. Tell her to look for a Robin Williams look-alike. Thanks for the tip.

By Truth

August 20, 2008 11:43 PM | Link to this

NYer

you are right about the coke and Jack. the only thing I l;ike in Coke is aq scoop of really good vanilla ice cream.

I had a job on St. Croix. Cruzan Rum for 2.75 a fifth. The locals would keep a bottle in the freezer and come in from that hot sun, it went down like water.

I’ve never been a really picky drinker. My neighbor’s family is from Scotland and his family has made Scotch for generations, but I can’t remember the name. It’s nothing I had ever heard of, but really good Scotch. I’ll try to find out and let you know. I like blended like Johnny Walker Red, Blue if I can get it. Never liked Black. I like Pinch.

I just can’t drink it like I used to. I do so much work, late at night, even if i go out, I can’t drink or I will be done for the night. Not drinking really lowers a person’s tolerance.

By Bruno

August 21, 2008 1:26 AM | Link to this

My personal preference is to go for the Bookers. The citrus, spice and molasses easily makes it the most flavorful small batch bourbon on the market. Double shot with three ice cubes. Wait two minutes and start the enjoyment.

Now this blog is starting to get somewhere!

Cheers to all!

By Mara

August 21, 2008 7:02 AM | Link to this

Gale - I’m Aquarius and the love of my life is a virgo.

Okay, this is just freaky. MY honey-bunny is a Virgo, too! And you’re absolutely right about the whole “balance” thing.

Bruno - Tell her to look for a Robin Williams look-alike

Curly brown hair, hazel-green eyes, 5’6” or so. Nice figure. And yes, I’ll tell her to watch out for ya…LOL!!

By USinUK

August 21, 2008 7:09 AM | Link to this

Good morning 24-Hour Party People!

My personal preference is to go for the Bookers. The citrus, spice and molasses easily makes it the most flavorful small batch bourbon on the market. Double shot with three ice cubes. Wait two minutes and start the enjoyment

good grief, I’m feeling like a plebe. Beer when it’s warm, red wine when it’s cold. simple girl. simple tastes. :-)

By Gale

August 21, 2008 8:44 AM | Link to this

Chuck, newspaper astrology is as valid as fortune cookie fortunes.

Bruno, since you are familiar with your chart, tell me is the last planet your moon passed over Mars? I think you said Moon in Cancer and Mars in Geminii.

NYer, I drank a lot of Pinch in my guzzling days. Tasty stuff. Now I buy more expensive stuff and it slows me down a lot. Of course, the desire for a clear head slows me down a lot too.

Mara, you want freaky? I had a very close friend for whome I did a chart, then met someone a few years later that was soo like her. When I ran that chart, I discovered they had been born very near to one another and almost exactly twelve hours apart. Kinda one of those separated at birth things. Very alike and very different.

USinUK, g’morning. Simple tastes are the best. I never was one for mixed drinks.

By NYer

August 21, 2008 9:37 AM | Link to this

Truth & Gale,

For a modestly priced rum, Cruzan is pretty good. Chilled rum would be fantastic after a day in the sun. I’ve never been much of a scotch fan - I’m a bourbon guy from having gone to school in Virginia.

I wasn’t picky on stuff either until I started drinking less and realized that the good stuff tasted a whole lot better than the cheap junk I “enjoyed” so much as a youth.

USinUK,

I don’t have the slightest palate for wine. Once you get past the broad categories of merlot, cab, etc., it’s all pretty much the same to me. I like a whole lot of beers, so I’m bound to drink just about any kind. Since I can no longer “keep my options open” when I’m at the bar, I like to at least stay flexible with my choice of drink.

By NYer

August 21, 2008 9:39 AM | Link to this

congrats to May-Treanor and Walsh.

By Gale

August 21, 2008 10:00 AM | Link to this

Looks like the softball team met their match though.

By USinUK

August 21, 2008 10:00 AM | Link to this

NYer -

I’m with ya on the wine thing … I’ve never gone for the “subtle, yet obsequious with an undertone of plaid” kind of wine … like you, I go for the major tastes (full-bodied red or crisp, non-oaky white) and find a wine I like, then stick with it.

As for beer, the fun thing about still being relatively new to the UK is that every pub I go to, I get to try a whole new beer I’ve never heard of.

on the good news/bad news front, the good news is that the beer here packs a wollop … the bad news is that wollop usually sneaks up from behind and sucker-punches you … you’re hanging out having a great time when, BANG, you’re trollied. So, I usually limit myself to a pint or a pint and a half …

By Gale

August 21, 2008 10:20 AM | Link to this

And on the ‘lower the drinking age’ issue, I agree. They are old enough to enlist, they are old enough to drink. MADD misses the target. To target drunk driving, create and enforce mandatory jail time for drunk driving and pull the license. The very real threat of jail time in Michigan seemed to make a difference. Suppose you are at a bar. One beer, NBD. Two beers, maybe you might be impaired. If you make a mistake and get pulled over you will not talk your way out of it. You will spend the next three days in jail with no bail. YOu will have to explain that to the wife and kids or mom and dad. What will you do? One more beer?

By USinUK

August 21, 2008 10:35 AM | Link to this

Gale -

They are old enough to enlist, they are old enough to drink. MADD misses the target. To target drunk driving, create and enforce mandatory jail time for drunk driving and pull the license.

the most interesting idea I’ve heard … drinking age at 18, but legal driving age at 22. Underage kids will always have access to booze … it’s a lot harder for them to sneak cars.

Since kids don’t have any concept of what alcohol does and what their tolerance is, give them a few years to figure it out THEN allow them behind the wheel. (not to mention, young drivers even when they’re sober aren’t particularly safe, anyhow)

By Gale

August 21, 2008 10:40 AM | Link to this

Boy, I wish I could see the women’s soccer final live. Sounds like a heck of a game.

By NYer

August 21, 2008 10:40 AM | Link to this

USinUK,

I visited Ireland not too long ago, and I loved going to the pubs and talking with the locals and trying all the local beer flavors. And yes, the beer, with the added alcohol content, was fantastic. I think that’s true pretty much throughout Europe and I think it’s a better overall product than the watered down beers that we tend to get in the states.

By NYer

August 21, 2008 10:50 AM | Link to this

Gale,

When I was growing up in NY the law was that if you were underage and you were tagged with a DUI, you lost your license until you were 21. It’s a stiff penalty for an 18 year old and it definitely changed the way my friends and I handled our underage drinking. We always had a DD - luckily one guy in our group didn’t like to drink, so he usually handled the chores.

By USinUK

August 21, 2008 10:50 AM | Link to this

NYer -

I visited Ireland not too long ago

what part of Ireland did you visit? did you like it? how long were you there?

(always looking for good places to visit)

By NYer

August 21, 2008 10:53 AM | Link to this

the most interesting idea I’ve heard … drinking age at 18, but legal driving age at 22. Underage kids will always have access to booze … it’s a lot harder for them to sneak cars.

So parents have to drive kids until they’re 22? Yuck.

By Truth

August 21, 2008 10:55 AM | Link to this

USinUK

*Since kids don’t have any concept of what alcohol does and what their tolerance is, give them a few years to figure it out *

Maybe for some. My kid came in when he was 15 with beer on his breath. So instead of yelling at him, his Mom and I sat him down with him and had a little party. We gave him more beer and then started mixing drinks. Then we started giving him Bailey’s and Grand Mariner. When he started to get really drunk, we made him keep drinking. He was sick for three days, But he didn’t drink again until his 21st birthday and then, only a beer. To this day he drinks very little.

Tough love works.

By USinUK

August 21, 2008 10:59 AM | Link to this

Gale -

Womens football

go to the yellow box on the left (list of events currently happening) - women’s soccer/football is the last on the list, so scroll down

By USinUK

August 21, 2008 11:02 AM | Link to this

D-oh! that should be the list of events on the RIGHT, not the left (darn that directional dyslexia!)

By Truth

August 21, 2008 11:04 AM | Link to this

NYer

Modestly priced was the key on the Cruzan. I was there for two weeks and I think i have drank it once more since then (1986). Like i said, i drink so little that I usually leave most of the drink setting on the bar. I have never really liked the buzz. If you can hit it just right, somewhere between sober and sick, it’s OK, but it is disabling. When I played music, I sang and warm scotch is great for a singer’s throat.

By USinUK

August 21, 2008 11:08 AM | Link to this

Truth —

When he started to get really drunk, we made him keep drinking. He was sick for three days, But he didn’t drink again until his 21st birthday and then, only a beer. To this day he drinks very little.

eeeeyurrrrggghhh … you’re lucky that he didn’t get alcohol poisoning (which it sounds like he may have had) and that you didn’t get arrested for endangering the life of a child.

I understand what you did and why you did it - but, criminey, your kid could have died or been seriously injured.

NYer -

So parents have to drive kids until they’re 22? Yuck.

yes, the idea has its downsides … but, look at it this way, from 18-22, they’re most likely away at college anyway.

By Bruno

August 21, 2008 11:11 AM | Link to this

Okay, this is just freaky. MY honey-bunny is a Virgo, too! And you’re absolutely right about the whole “balance” thing.

Too funny, Mara. Usually we Virgos get a bad rap for being too picky, too orderly, and too rigid. From the little you’ve mentioned about your hubby, he doesn’t sound that way at all. In my own case, I have to plead guilty as charged.

And yes, I’ll tell her to watch out for ya

All of the events put on by the FunForSingles sound really great. Unfortunately, I don’t get off from work until 7-ish, and have to work Saturday mornings as well. On top of that, I’m back in school on alternating weekends until mid-November. I did see that in early September they are planning an evening with a hypnotist/comedian. That may be my first event. After that, there is a 3 mile nature hike that sounds like fun. If your friend is even half as cool as you are, I’m sure that she’s a good catch.

I concurrently signed up at a singles website called fitness singles last night and am already chatting with a lady who owns a Pilates/yoga studio in Raleigh. Too bad she’s so far away, because it seems like we have a lot in common in valuing spiritual things over the material. My only other online dating experience was through amigos.com which is what led me to meet the beautiful Dominican lady in Miami. I’m still not completely sold on meeting people online, but I guess anything is worth a try….

By Gale

August 21, 2008 11:19 AM | Link to this

The need to drive kids is likely behind giving kids cars at an early age. I am not sure why we have become so certain kids need all the activities parents are always driving them to. However, the notion of getting them more mature before they drive has a lot of merit. I usually hear complaints that it would cause hardship for rural families. ::Rolling eyes:: I think tracters were usually exempted. Give me a good reason why a 14 year old needs to drive.

Another idea that has been floated is that teens can drive, but only during daylight if no adult and no more than one unrelated minor in the car and only with a legal guardian in the car after dark. That gives them practice, but stops a lot of the risky behavior. Enforcing it could be problematic.

By Truth

August 21, 2008 11:22 AM | Link to this

Gale

Unrequited love for you. You are the wrong flavor

I don’t blame you. I don’t know why any woman would like a man. Nasty hairy things with lots of bad habits. That’s why I never got the gay man thing. Most of those guys look great and they choose another man? That ain’t right.

But I will say that men are no more shallow than women, in fact, probably less. if you see a babe walking with a really bad looking guy, follow them out to the parking lot. Chances are, there’s a new Mercedes or a Jag waiting. But I have seen some really great looking guys with some real bow wows (or total nut-jobs), but there seems to be no other attraction. Don’t start yelling at me. i know there are exceptions.

Truth, Libra I believe, But again, it takes more than the sun sign

I don’t know what you are talking about. What other information do you need to know?

By USinUK

August 21, 2008 11:24 AM | Link to this

Bruno -

Usually we Virgos get a bad rap for being too picky, too orderly, and too rigid. From the little you’ve mentioned about your hubby, he doesn’t sound that way at all. In my own case, I have to plead guilty as charged.

my sister is a Virgo … and boy-howdy, is she a Virgo (she makes plans, you get out of her way) … my brother-in-law is an Aquarius … don’t know if they’re Zodiacally a perfect match, but I know that, in real life, he’s laid-back and flexible - perfect for my sis.

married for nearly 30 years, so there ARE people out there for you persnickety Virgoians :-)

By Bruno

August 21, 2008 11:28 AM | Link to this

congrats to May-Treanor and Walsh.

Did you get a chance to watch the gold medal final last night, NYer? Totally awesome. There was a light rain which made the ladies’ bodies glisten, giving the whole thing a surrealistic look/feel. Sexy, sexy, sexy. Then, to top it off, Misty scattered some of her mother’s ashes onto the court after the victory which gave it all a very poignant quality. A match for the ages. In the post-victory interview, both ladies said that they wanted now to focus on becoming mothers in order to get the “next team” ready. Hopefully they will replay it for those of you who were sleeping.

So what’s wrong with the track and field events, USinUK? Back at the 1996 Olympics, one of the events I attended was the Track and Field finals. My BIL and I got to see Donovan Bailey tear it up in the men’s 4x100 relay, putting the American team to shame. Also, we we fortunate enough to sit at the end of the field in which the women’s high jump finals were held. That was the highlight of the evening for me seeing those tall, beautiful graceful women leaping over a bar I would have to jump in the air to touch. (Yes, I’m a horn-dog).

By Truth

August 21, 2008 11:34 AM | Link to this

USinUK

He did get alcohol poisoning. That’s what getting sick on alcohol is. The reason why we mixed everything is because we knew it wouldn’t take very much. It didn’t. Personally, for the good it did, I think it was well worth it.

I wanted to get him a hooker when he was 14. Just get it out of the way. That way he could concentrate on other issues other than that great mystery, but his Mom would have none of it. It’s like the scene in Ferris Bueller wher he is looking at the camera and explaining how his friend had never been laid and will fall for the first girl that gave it up to him.

I finally told him about it last year at his mom’s house. (He just turned 26) He was soooo pi^sed.

By Bruno

August 21, 2008 11:34 AM | Link to this

married for nearly 30 years, so there ARE people out there for you persnickety Virgoians :-)

So there is hope for all of us nitpickers of the world????

Nasty hairy things with lots of bad habits.

Two words for you, Truth: Brazilian wax.

By USinUK

August 21, 2008 11:43 AM | Link to this

Truth -

I don’t know why any woman would like a man.

would you like a list?

nothing like cuddling or being cuddled by a guy with nice, strong arms

I’ll take a fuzzy chest over a waxed one, any day (backs? that’s another matter)

cuz it’s nice to be appreciated as one-of-the-guys as well as a nice-looking chicklet by the same person

as much as I love my girlfriends for a good gossip and natter, I like the perspective on life that I get from my hub

lastly: guys are great for spider eradication and geeky A/V gadgets that you never knew you needed until you came one and found one in your living room

By Bruno

August 21, 2008 11:44 AM | Link to this

I don’t know what you are talking about. What other information do you need to know?

Truth, go to the link below and type in your birth information. It really helps if you know what time of day you were born. It’s a lot of fun to check out the compatibility report as well. Mara and USinUK—why don’t you give it a try, just for laughs.

http://astro.cafeastrology.com/

Bruno, since you are familiar with your chart, tell me is the last planet your moon passed over Mars? I think you said Moon in Cancer and Mars in Geminii.

I’m not sure what your question means, Gale. Yes, my Moon sign is Cancer, with Mars in Gemini. Which basically means I’m moody, but chatty. Could you tell?

By Truth

August 21, 2008 11:47 AM | Link to this

Bruno

I’m running out of hair. What I got is staying.

By Gale

August 21, 2008 11:48 AM | Link to this

Aquarius is rather laid back. There are some bad matches, though. Aquarius can go along for the ride, but doesn’t like being controlled.

Truth, Other stuff besides sun signs. Well, if you read what Bruno said about his chart, which he apparently got for free, (I love the new astrology software.) you’ll see that he is aware of his rising sign (ego), his moon (id) and his sun sign (super ego). The () is to indicate rough association to personality traits. It sounds like a neat site. I sent the link to my home email so I can take a look.

Truth, there you are talking about physical looks again. Gay men like men because they like men. It doesn’t have a lot to do with looks. Really, if you wanted to choose someone who you shared a lot of experiences and interests, and sex was not a factor, would you tend to pick a man to spend time with or a woman? Guys know what other guys think about, they know what experiences each other had as boys. There is a lot of commonality.

By Bruno

August 21, 2008 11:52 AM | Link to this

He did get alcohol poisoning. That’s what getting sick on alcohol is. The reason why we mixed everything is because we knew it wouldn’t take very much. It didn’t. Personally, for the good it did, I think it was well worth it. I wanted to get him a hooker when he was 14. Just get it out of the way.

Truth, I’m actually with you on the alcohol thing. When I turned 21, I did the 21-shot thing. After puking my guts out all night, I vowed never to get drunk again, which I’ve basically stuck with. I’m not sure if that same strategy would work with reefer, however.

As for the hooker idea, I see your logic, but have to disagree with you. The few hookers I’ve been with were kind of nasty “down there”, making the whole experience a big turn-off for me. In addition, I feel strongly that there should be a spiritual element in making love. As soon as money gets involved, it ruins it. Just my two cents.

By USinUK

August 21, 2008 11:54 AM | Link to this

Bruno -

*So what’s wrong with the track and field events, USinUK? Back at the 1996 Olympics, one of the events I attended was the Track and Field finals. My BIL and I got to see Donovan Bailey tear it up in the men’s 4x100 relay, putting the American team to shame. Also, we we fortunate enough to sit at the end of the field in which the women’s high jump finals were held. That was the highlight of the evening for me seeing those tall, beautiful graceful women leaping over a bar I would have to jump in the air to touch. (Yes, I’m a horn-dog).

haha … you are not alone in your T&A/T&F fantasies

as for me, I’d rather watch swimming or cycling or rowing or equestrian events (them’s my Top 4, in order) … mostly because I’ve done all of them but rowing. if I have to watch T&F, I’ll watch the running or pole vault … anything else is just a big yawn.

By Bruno

August 21, 2008 11:57 AM | Link to this

nothing like cuddling or being cuddled by a guy with nice, strong arms

I’m going to start working out immediately!

By Gale

August 21, 2008 11:59 AM | Link to this

lastly: guys are great for spider eradication I love it. My favorite thing is the ability to reach things on high shelves. But of course, a chair is easier to live with than a guuy, in my case. And I have gotten to play with so many toys like leaf blowers that I never would have used with a guy around.

Bruno, Are there any planets between your Mars and Moon? Chatty, btw would be more a result of Mercury.

By USinUK

August 21, 2008 12:01 PM | Link to this

Bruno -

I checked out the site - GREAT for my sign (I am the quintessential Gemini - smart, intellectually curious, but easily distracted by shiny objects)

but it said that my hub and I are a horrible match!! :-(

wah!

By Truth

August 21, 2008 12:12 PM | Link to this

USinUK

nothing like cuddling or being cuddled by a guy with nice, strong arms

See that’s weird. My GF loves my arms. Arms?

I’ll take a fuzzy chest over a waxed one, any day (backs? that’s another matter)

GAK!!! GAK!!! Never been a fan of hair being anywhere but on her head. (II’m not going into the details) Now I do see your problem with back hair. Once went to a nude beach in Italy. Lots of hairy backs. And then there were the men. Budum Ching. We’ll be here all week. Tip your waitresses.

cuz it’s nice to be appreciated as one-of-the-guys as well as a nice-looking chicklet by the same person

Well, I guess. I read an article about the fact that bars are beginning to clean up after smoking laws and the dominate smell now is men’s BO. One of the guys? Don’t bathe for a week. Then you are one of the guys. Nasty creatures, we are.

as much as I love my girlfriends for a good gossip and natter, I like the perspective on life that I get from my hub

In the words of Bill Murray in “Groundhog Day”: This is a man we are talking about?

lastly: guys are great for spider eradication and geeky A/V gadgets that you never knew you needed until you came one and found one in your living room

LOL!! Murphy Brown used to sum up her love for men with one sentence: “Fix the stereo and get out.”

By NYer

August 21, 2008 12:18 PM | Link to this

USinUK,

I was in Ireland for only a short time and stayed mostly in Dublin. But I had a car service give me a tour of much of the country for a day and a half all along the eastern coastline of the country. I enjoyed Dublin quite a bit and found the majority of the people to be quite fun and entertaining. The mountainside waterfalls, cottages, churches, and castles interspersed throughout the tour were fantastic. Just north of Dublin I believe there is a very famous and very old pub, Johnny Fox’s (I think) where they have great seafood and a big stage for the girls (and some guys) to do some Irish dancing to the local music. The crowd gets pretty raucous and beer is spilled everywhere. Good times. I would highly recommend it for a weekend getaway.

By Truth

August 21, 2008 12:24 PM | Link to this

Bruno

I did that. I can navigate with a sextant on the open sea and I have no idea what I found out. What my Mars in Venus is? i have no idea.

By NYer

August 21, 2008 12:24 PM | Link to this

Bruno,

I did watch last nights final, and thought it was great. It was awesome to see our ladies not get derailed by the hostile crowd, the elements, or some of the ridiculous let-serves that the Chinese were lucking into. Misty May is awesome.

And yes, anytime we get to see women on national tv getting wet, wearing skimpy outfits and doing athletic activities, I’ll probably tune in.

By Mara

August 21, 2008 12:31 PM | Link to this

Bruno - Usually we Virgos get a bad rap for being too picky, too orderly, and too rigid. From the little you’ve mentioned about your hubby, he doesn’t sound that way at all.

Well, he is a bit of a neat freak, but I like that. He can be picky which can get a bit much sometimes, but we all have those little quirks. And yes, he can also be a bit rigid in his thinking…but since we agree on the big stuff, the small issues aren’t that disruptive.

In fact, not agreeing on everything is part of the balance in our relationship. I’m great at getting things started but he makes sure they get finished. I rush in, he takes his time. I take chances, he takes care. He’s cars, I’m books. He’s WWE, I’m C-Span. That’s what makes it all so much fun.

USinUK - as much as I love my girlfriends for a good gossip and natter, I like the perspective on life that I get from my hub

I’ll second that about MY husband also. Ditto on the spider killing (well, spider catching in our house…).

By Maya

August 21, 2008 1:02 PM | Link to this

Yes, my ego tells me I know everything too. My ego says I know what everyone should be doing and thinking and teaching their kids and how they should be living. And the ones who don’t do the RIGHT things or believe the RIGHT things, well the world would be a better place if they had a rag stuffed in their stupid mouths. Or maybe we should just bomb them. Anyway, I’m right and all of youse guys are wrong - unless you agree with me of course.

By Scalia

August 21, 2008 2:05 PM | Link to this

As a man that loves men, there is something familiar about being with a man. Not all of them are nasty.

And arms an asset, but I prefer a guy to be shaped like Jorge Posada or Javy Lopez with thick muscular thighs and a nice, big round booty.

By Jokester

August 21, 2008 2:08 PM | Link to this

Maya will fit right in here.

By Truth

August 21, 2008 2:55 PM | Link to this

Scalia

Good luck to you, Pal.

By Dr. Phil

August 21, 2008 3:00 PM | Link to this

You don’t need husky pants to get all uppity.

By Bruno

August 21, 2008 3:16 PM | Link to this

And yes, anytime we get to see women on national tv getting wet, wearing skimpy outfits and doing athletic activities, I’ll probably tune in.

I’m with you NYer!!!!!

I checked out the site - GREAT for my sign (I am the quintessential Gemini - smart, intellectually curious, but easily distracted by shiny objects)

OMG—why did you have to tell me that you were a Gemini, USinUK? Just when I was starting to like you…..

Just kidding, of course. By any chance were you the captain of your debate team in HS?

By Bruno

August 21, 2008 3:23 PM | Link to this

Mara—a million thanks for the tip to go to FunForSIngles. Their companion website, Fitness Singles, is awesome. A lady from NC who owns a Pilates studio already got in touch with me and we’re hitting it off right away. Of course, once she finds out about all my “dark secrets”, I’m sure she’ll want nothing to do with me! In the meantime, we’re having a grand time talking about spiritual matters. A lady from England just got in touch with me as well to ask what my golfing handicap is. I told her that it isn’t very impressive, but that I am very good at kicking the ball whenever I get stuck behind a tree.

I can’t decide who are bigger liars—fishermen or golfers.

By Scalia

August 21, 2008 3:28 PM | Link to this

Trust, Why do I need good luck? There are plenty of guys that fit that description.

By Bruno

August 21, 2008 3:43 PM | Link to this

ego), his moon (id) and his sun sign (super ego).

Gale, I’m totally intrigued by your mention of the Freudian “divisions” of our personalities in relation to astrology. I wrote a term paper in college doing a comparison between Freudian psychology and the book “The Art of Motorcycle Maintenance”.

Since then, I keep running across a type of personality analysis which utilizes 4 categories. They are laid out nicely in a book called “Please Understand Me II”. What is fascinating is that this same system has been used throughout history by many thinkers. Plato called them Artisan-Guardian-Idealist-Rational. Aristotle called them Hedonic-Proprietary-Ethical-Dialectical. Galen referred to them as Sanguine-Melancholic-Choleric-Phlegmatic. In modern times, Fromm called them Exploitative-Hoarding-Receptive-Marketing. Myers (of the Myers-Briggs Test) called the four types Probing-Scheduling-Friendly-Tough-Minded. Carolyn Kalil, who wrote the book “Follow Your True Colors To The Work You Love” assigned colors to the four types, which makes them very easy to remember: Courageous (orange)-Conventional (gold)-Conceptual (green)-Compassionate (blue). Very fascinating to me. In PUM-II, the author, David Keirsey shows that the four types are found by considering whether someone accomplishes tasks either by cooperating with others, or whether they accomplish taske without cooperation which is then matched with whether someone tends to use language in a concrete way or in an abstract way.

By Truth

August 21, 2008 4:01 PM | Link to this

Scalia

You don’t need good luck?

By Bruno

August 21, 2008 4:01 PM | Link to this

Catch you guys later—a bunch of emails are rolling in from the dating site. Of course, I’m a little suspicious of the interest. Most likely they do a filtered search based on educational level. Since mine is PhD/Doctoral, a lot of ladies probably assume that I am rich. I did have a few bucks about three years ago, but I blew most of it.

Truth—can I get a loan from you? ; > }