AJC.com > Opinion > Woman to Woman > Archives > 2008 > August > 11 > Entry
Should we be buying bottled water?
Andrea Cornell Sarvady, a left-leaning columnist, writes the commentary this week and Shaunti Feldhahn, a right-leaning columnist, responds.
Commentary
Remember your incredulity when some shoppers first started buying bottled water? “We’re buying water now?” we’d say to ourselves, laughing at the amount of H20 some people were heaving into their trunks. In no time at all, most of us got into the habit as well. Now, however, the whole bottled-water phenomenon has become hard to swallow.
Most people buy bottled water either because they think it tastes better and or because it’s safer. Yet in blind taste tests, consumers can’t tell the difference between bottled water and tap, (and a few minutes in the fridge improves the taste even more). Various studies also show that bottled water is on average no healthier for you than tap. What’s more, 40 percent of bottled water comes from the same source as tap water. It is simply packaged prettily and sold back to you at up to 4,000 times the cost.
Just making all those bottles we drink takes more than 17 million barrels of oil in a year. That’s enough to fuel more than a million cars annually, and all for a product we can get in our kitchen or workplaces. The current economy requires some painful belt-tightening, but I found it relatively easy to let go of this expensive, wasteful habit. A cheap filter and a chemically safe, reusable plastic or aluminum bottle is enough to keep me hydrated, saving my summer survival funds for beach and lake water instead.
Gigi Kellett, director of Corporate Accountability International’s Think Outside the Bottle campaign, recently spoke to me about encouraging consumers to go back to the tap. She acknowledges that some communities have inferior water supplies but urges them to fight for improved systems, rather than relying on a short-term fix of bottled water. Thinking outside the bottle, Kellett declares, is simply “more sustainable, better for the environment, better for our pocketbooks and better for our public water systems.”
Here’s my favorite reason for turning on the faucet: I no longer wonder if some modern day version of a snake oil salesman has his hand in my pocket. Now as I head to the gym to work out, refreshing bottle of tap water in hand, I feel like I’m exercising common sense as well.
Rebuttal
After running errands and playing on a friend’s outdoor trampoline yesterday, my kids and I piled into the car to head home.
Instantly, “Mommy I’m thirsty” filled the car and I, too, was parched. Pulling into a gas station for $3.68 unleaded (it’s come down!) I spied something even more welcome: giant refrigerator cases full of bottled sodas, Gatorade and water. My 5-year-old son said, plaintively, “I need to hydrate.”
Three chilled bottles of water later, my children and I felt much better.
I did not buy it because I thought it tasted better or was safer. I bought it because it was convenient. And therein lies a difference between Andy and me. She thinks society should stop buying a product that clearly meets a need, for which there is a substantial demand, because it uses a lot of fuel and the price is too high.
Well, according to basic economics, the price includes fuel costs, and it isn’t too high if people are still willing to buy it in large quantities. Which they are: since 2003, bottled water has been America’s second-largest commercial beverage by volume.
The environmental argument is the only one that carries weight, because that is a “public good” that the market can’t price into the equation. But this argument applies to all plastic consumer packaging, which means pretty much everything these days.
Instead of trying to ban bottled water or putting ketchup or laundry detergent in something else (metal? ceramic?), we should support efforts at more easily-recyclable plastic such as lightweight PET plastic.
Dennis Sabourin, executive director of the National Association for PET Container Resources, Nestle reduced its water bottle weight by 35 percent with PET bottles, which means lighter loads and less fuel. Nestle recently committed to even more aggressive measures by 2013.
Yes, carrying tap water in reusable containers is cheaper and saves energy. And we often do so. But water remains iced only so long in 90-degree weather. And would Andy really suggest that my children have had the option of only sugary sodas instead? Which, of course, were also in … plastic. In fact, given the huge rate of obesity, isn’t the rise in bottled water demand a good thing?
Comments
Commenting is now closed for this entry.
By Chilao
August 11, 2008 5:07 PM | Link to this
Man, you two should have joined Congress and taken the month of August off. LOL Bottled Water?
I drink tap water, even bottle it for the fridge, liters and liters are in there, my water company wins awards for good water. Carry a 2-litter behind my car seat, can reach around if I MUST drink fluid. ( And have no coffee with me)
Not too much difference, though, is there, between bottled/canned soft drink beverages and water is there? Green-wise. Both use more resources than filling up the reusable containers.
I could introduce Shaunti to ice-chests in the car, how I travel anyway, but don’t want to come across as a know it all so I won’t mention it. But there is no difference between buying a coke in a 12-oz plastic jar and a water in a 12-oz plastic jar, Green-Wise. wait, I already said that..
But bottled water is, well, for the birds, but then I feed them hose/tap water anyway.
By Copyleft
August 12, 2008 8:10 AM | Link to this
Good to see Shaunti defending consumer stupidity as part of the “magic of the marketplace.” I’m sure she was driving her idiotic, gas-guzzling SUV at the time too, just for extra irony.
Problem is, your dumb choices don’t only affect YOUR wallet. They affect all of us.
By USinUK
August 12, 2008 8:18 AM | Link to this
… man, I’m away on vacation for a few days and this is what I come back to??? a “debate” over bottled water?
now, that’s just sad.
Go Michael Phelps!!! woowoo!!!
By JokesOn
August 12, 2008 8:34 AM | Link to this
… man, I’m away on vacation for a few days and this is what I come back to??? a “debate” over bottled water?
As bad as the topic is, it is not eff’d up as the closing comments of the last one.
Hope your vacation was pleasant.
By USinUK
August 12, 2008 8:53 AM | Link to this
Jokes -
As bad as the topic is, it is not eff’d up as the closing comments of the last one.
ah. yeah. I noticed that things took a turn for the weird … what the heck was that??
Hope your vacation was pleasant.
I highly recommend Venice - it is everything it’s cracked up to be and a whole lot more. We didn’t do gondola rides, but did loads of wandering around and exploring the city. And food. ohmygod. If you like seafood, then Venice is the place. The nice thing - I was surprised at how clean it was. We went to Rome last November and I thought it was a bit grimy.
By Reason
August 12, 2008 8:56 AM | Link to this
Evian spelled backwards is “Naive”
By Gale
August 12, 2008 8:59 AM | Link to this
Now we know why the new topic was late. They had to scrounge really hard to find something that wasn’t politics and religion. Is there even a morsel to be debated in this topic? I was about to question whether the late topic was so it would be fresh for USinUK’s return. But surely they would have thought of something better to celebrate that. Oh, maybe it is to protest your absense?
By Human
August 12, 2008 9:00 AM | Link to this
driving her idiotic, gas-guzzling SUV at the time too
What kind of emmissions is your car putting out. Unless you’re riding a bike 24/7 then please refrain from commenting.
Emmissions are Emmissions are Emmissions are Emmissions are Emmissions are Emmissions are Emmissions are Emmissions are ………
By Truth
August 12, 2008 9:01 AM | Link to this
UsinnerU
Go Michael Phelps!!! woowoo!!!
Shaved a second off his own world record last night.
Did you see the opening ceremonies?
BTW. GF went to Miami for a job interview. her ” boss” had gotten her a room with his own credit card and when she got to the hotel, he had already checked out a room key. She turned around and took a cab to the airport, came back home. She loved Miami, but said all the women dress like hookers and the men are Latin pigs. Thank God for slimy men.
How was your vacation?
Bottled water? I use a Brieta tank in my fridge. In this part of Atlanta, we get strange colored water. Drinking tap water here? I would rather drink mud. I try to avoid buying water from a market, but I understand Shanti’s problem. When i am really thursty, I also buy bottled water at markets.
I like sparkling water like Peligrino, but those bottles are glass.
By Mara
August 12, 2008 9:12 AM | Link to this
Hate to admit it but I find myself agreeing with Shaunti on this issue.
I drink a LOT of water. At home, I get it out of my Brita pitcher but when I’m out and I’m perishing for a nice cold drink, I DO purchase bottled water. I don’t want luke-warm water that’s been sitting in my car for hours, I want cold refreshment.
I’d feel much better about it though, if it came in recyclable plastic, or even glass.
By Truth
August 12, 2008 9:12 AM | Link to this
Usinner U
Venice was clean? It had just flooded when I was there and the whole place smelled like dead fish. I loved St. Marks and the square. Did they still have the Orchestra playing in the square?
We noticed that a lot of the wedding gondolas had paid actors in them. They just rowed around, looking like the perfect picture. I liked the place. Very touristy and quite a bit more expensive than Verona.
By Gale
August 12, 2008 9:29 AM | Link to this
I drink tap water all the time, unless I am in the car. I usually don’t even bother with the filtered water from the fridge. I don’t like it cold. My partner, on the other hand, drinks bottled water almost exclusively. She prefers sparkling water as well.
By Truth
August 12, 2008 9:39 AM | Link to this
Gale
Morning. I have found that sprkling water that comes in plastic doesn’t have as much carbonation. I don’t know whether that is intentional or not.
You have to feel bad about the Edwards deal. Most of his votes would have gone to Hillary.
By Gale
August 12, 2008 9:48 AM | Link to this
re: Edwards. Yes, I imagine most of the Edwards votes would have gone to Hillary, if only for sympathy. If this had come out in January, and if the Rev. Wright thing had come out in January… IF. I think in politics as in comedy, timing is everything.
I always thought plastic somehow diminished the carbonation in the water. We buy Perier in the small bottles. I buy them by the case at Sam’s club. So sue me, I indulge her.
By JokesOn
August 12, 2008 9:57 AM | Link to this
Anyone ever see pen/teller’s movie Bull$hit?
They were selling “Parisian water” and other “designer waters” for some absurd price, but it was really out of the gardening hose in the back. The people loved it.
By Truth
August 12, 2008 10:03 AM | Link to this
gale
I like the little Coke like Perrier bottles, but the water is not as good as the glass bottles. They may bring down the amount of carbonation to keep the plastic bottles from popping.
Never trusted Edwards. The main character in “My Cousin Vinny” was also an ambulance chaser. Look at what people do, not what they say.
Meetings this morning. Have a good one.
By Funny
August 12, 2008 10:21 AM | Link to this
did penn/teller market it as Eau d’Toilette?
By John C. Snider
August 12, 2008 10:25 AM | Link to this
Based on my unscientific poll of friends and colleagues, most people drink bottled water, not because they think it’s convenient, but because they’ve bought-in to the retailers’ propaganda that tap water is unsafe. Which is complete baloney. Tap water produced in this country is among the safest in the world.
The second most common reason people drink bottled water, from my observation, is the status-symbol factor. Why be seen with a refillable plastic squirty-bottle when you can be seen fondling a fancy shaped bottle with a foreign name?
The third reason - a very very distant third - is convenience.
All this said, if people want to buy bottled water, I won’t stop them. If they, like me, buy it from time to time simply because of its convenience, that’s fine, too. But let’s quit fooling ourselves that bottled water somehow tastes better, or is safer, or will make you look cool while cooling you off. It’s consumerist folderol at its most amusing and most aggravating.
www.AmericanFreethought.com
By Gale
August 12, 2008 10:29 AM | Link to this
JokesOn, Didn’t see the movie, but I’ve heard of it. It reminds me on my ex’s granDa who, back during Prohibition, would cart hard cider into Toledo and sell it as Canadian champagne. It was hardly champagne, but when you want a buzz, good hard cider is lovely. Both before and after Prohibition, he pressed excellent cider I was told.
Truth, one would think as many times as I’ve carried the little bottles, I would know how many Rs are in Perrier. I typed it three times and still couldn’t decide. I like the glass bottles for everything but the weight. Cases from the truck to the basement, bottles from the basement to the fridge, from the fridge to the office upstairs. Then the recycling bin from the garage to the curb. Whew!
To be honest, I am surprised the Atlanta metro area does not have more active recycling. With as many people as we have, the garbage we generate is a serious issue. I am not even sure the trash collection really recycles what I put in the bin. I think many people would gladly separate their trash if they knew it was being recycled.
Did anyone hear about the new process, I think it was developed at Emory, a GA school anyway, to process grass clippings into ethanol? Apparently their process uses less harsh acids and takes less energy. I pay extra to have grass hauled away. We could use something readily available that is not a food item to make fuel. How cool is that?
By Logical Dude
August 12, 2008 10:53 AM | Link to this
I agree with both commenters today. 1) Don’t buy so many plastic bottles. Just buy the one you really like, and then fill it up from the tap (or preferably, the filtered tap, or Brita pitcher). I definitely notice a difference in the taste. 2) It’s good to have a fresh bottle once in a while, and it is convenient when travelling to grab a bottle or two from the Stop N Shop. Just remember to buy a big jug to refill the little ones that fit in the cup-holders. 3) and why are we talking about bottled water? Georgia, Russia, Iraq, Afghanistan, Presidents, elections, … all more timely and highly debatable. (not to mention, gays, abortion, affairs and other generic politics which we debate no matter what the main topic is)
By Mara
August 12, 2008 11:01 AM | Link to this
But let’s quit fooling ourselves that bottled water somehow tastes better
au contraire. ALL water is not equal. My honey thougt the same thing so we gave each other a blind taste test using chilled tap (from our faucet), Brita filtered, Aquafina, Disani, and Evian. The Brita, Aquafina, and Disani came out pretty much equal but there was a definite taste difference between them, the Evian, and tap water.
While I’m not saying that there’s anything wrong with tap water, or that bottled water is better, when we’re talking about water from my tap I know there is a taste difference…which is why I filter.
By Alan Silverman
August 12, 2008 11:25 AM | Link to this
I’m not a woman, but I was sent this item by the guy mentioned in Shauni’s rebuttal, from NAPCOR. I’m on an interminable hold, so I’ll multitask by responding to a couple of the items in the thread.
“….I’d feel much better about it though, if it came in recyclable plastic, or even glass.
By Truth”
PET is exceptionally recyclable, I used to run a PET reclamation company. Glass is an environmentally terrible alternative: Expensive to transport new, filled, or empty; and its shards contaminate all other recclables. CO2 footprint of PET is much less than that of glass.
” ….I have found that sprkling water that comes in plastic doesn’t have as much carbonation. I don’t know whether that is intentional or not….”
I think the opposite is often the case. Many natural spring waters have lower carbonation than the approximately 3 Vols/Vol of CO2 added by the “artificial water” makers (no slam intended — can’t quite figure out how else to designate them). Now, because PET is permeable to gases such as CO2, if you keep carbonated water around long enough, the fizz permeates slowly out. The smaller the bottle, the faster it goes that way (relatively speaking, because the surface area of a small bottle is larger per unit of fluid capacity than that of a large bottle).
I like Venice also. But the dirtiest major city in W Europe has to be Amsterdam. Amsterdamers allow their dogs to poop on the streets and refuse to clean up. And the canals are worse than in Venice for garbage and sewage (they actually flush the canals nightly, toilets that they are).
By USinUK
August 12, 2008 11:35 AM | Link to this
Gale -
was about to question whether the late topic was so it would be fresh for USinUK’s return. But surely they would have thought of something better to celebrate that. Oh, maybe it is to protest your absense?
you are too kind! :-)
as for the tap v. bottle, I drink tap at work, and sparkly at home (but I recycle). yes, I should probably reexamine now that I know the petro-savings (hanging my head in shame)
By USinUK
August 12, 2008 11:42 AM | Link to this
Truth -
Shaved a second off his own world record last night. woowoo!!!
Did you see the opening ceremonies? missed all of the opening ceremonies … watched sports highlights and the Georgia invasion on CNN international … otherwise, the only other TV we watched was Band of Brothers on DVD
BTW. GF went to Miami for a job interview. her ” boss” had gotten her a room with his own credit card and when she got to the hotel, he had already checked out a room key. She turned around and took a cab to the airport, came back home. She loved Miami, but said all the women dress like hookers and the men are Latin pigs. Thank God for slimy men. eeeeeesh. sorry (for her) that things went so badly - stuff like that just makes you feel gross by association.
Venice was clean? It had just flooded when I was there and the whole place smelled like dead fish. I loved St. Marks and the square. Did they still have the Orchestra playing in the square? VERY clean. I hated San Marco - too. damned. many. people. we saw a string orchestra at San Stefano Thursday night, but once I saw the crowds at SM, I avoided the cathedral and the Doge’s Palace.
We noticed that a lot of the wedding gondolas had paid actors in them. They just rowed around, looking like the perfect picture. I liked the place. Very touristy and quite a bit more expensive than Verona.
if we were there longer, we would have headed into the Veneto to see Verona and Padua … heard fab things about them both.
By Gale
August 12, 2008 11:46 AM | Link to this
Interesting info about PET. I can see why a soda bottler wouldn’t use them. But it would work find for uncarbonated water.
If glass shards contaminate other recyclables, why is it not separated? Is the recycle process automated and it doesn’t get screened? Seems it would be easy to separate the glass by weight. I always thought glass was one of the most recyclable materials.
I agree the topic of bottled water is dumb. But recycling is worthy of some discussion. Except that we all seem to be in general agreement about it.
By USinUK
August 12, 2008 11:48 AM | Link to this
Alan Silverman -
I like Venice also. But the dirtiest major city in W Europe has to be Amsterdam. Amsterdamers allow their dogs to poop on the streets and refuse to clean up. And the canals are worse than in Venice for garbage and sewage (they actually flush the canals nightly, toilets that they are).
REALLY??!! that surprises me - I’ve been to a couple of places in France and was thoroughly disgusted that they don’t clean up after their dogs. They have fantastic sidewalk cleaners that tidy up the place every evening, so you go for a stroll first thing in the morning and you’re safe. But, by the time lunch rolls around, you’re dodging landmines. YUK!
Anyone been to Prague and want to weigh in on the city???
By Mara
August 12, 2008 1:53 PM | Link to this
tumbleweeds
By RoadRunner
August 12, 2008 2:27 PM | Link to this
roadrunners
By Wanna Travel
August 12, 2008 2:37 PM | Link to this
USinUK, I’ve been to Prague, back when I was in college, before the iron curtain came down. Even then, in the absence of capitalism and freedom, it was breathtaking. Now that the dingy gray film of oppression has been removed, and it’s a vibrant city (the first Mission Impossible movie was filmed there) I would LOVE to return! Alas, too busy.
By Truth
August 12, 2008 3:06 PM | Link to this
Alan Silverman
Didn’t know about glass. I figured it was used and re bottled without crushing the bottles. ion conn and NY they do that. i guess here, they crush everything.
By sandi
August 12, 2008 3:29 PM | Link to this
What the h-ll! Bottled water? Should we drink it or not? Come on! ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ
By Gale
August 12, 2008 3:31 PM | Link to this
Reusing bottles would only make sense if all bottles were standard. Since the shape of the bottle is part of the mfg identity, they have an interest in keeping the bottles non-standard. I hate to think about sorting the bottles to get the right bottles back to each bottler. Still, it seems easy to sort out bottles from plastic before crushing.
By Truth
August 12, 2008 3:31 PM | Link to this
USinnerU
My favorite place in Italy is Decenzano del Garda, a little town up on Lake Garda. Just a little town with great scenery. The Alps are across the lake and the wall around the city was built to keep out the Huns.
I really liked Verona. It has the only working Roman Coliseum. Verona just feels like Italy. It’s hard to explain, but Venice was not actually Italy. It was a sovereign nation. Vevice is sort of the New Orleans of Italy. It is one of a kind.
The Capulet family was also from Verona. I have stood on the balcony that Shakespeare wrote about. There is a small statue of Juliet in the courtyard. I didn’t even know it was based on a real story.
The only problem I had with Italy was that I didn’t see a single Italian Exotic car. Not even a single Ferrari. All Fiats. Also, not a lot of commodes in the restrooms, just a hole in the floor. Gross.
There was a lot about Venice I loved. I can’t believe you did go to St. Mark’s. I took a picture looking up at the inside of the rotunda and there were beams of light coming in from the windows. My daughter has that picture as her desktop on her computer.
Venice is a maze and walking would have been a blast, but we just didn’t have enough time. (Story of my life) I loved the glass factories and bought hand made pieces for all my relatives. We were covering the military war games so we didn’t get a chance to do a lot of sight seeing. We took a water taxi down the great Canal visted the glass factories, visited St. Mark’s and called it a day and headed for Aviano to head home. Great trip. I would love to go back and not be working.
Great European destination. And like everything else, avoid the tourist traps.
By Truth
August 12, 2008 3:36 PM | Link to this
Gale
Invent a machine that accurately separates trash and the world will beat a path to your door.
By Billy
August 12, 2008 3:41 PM | Link to this
You have to feel bad about the Edwards deal. Most of his votes would have gone to Hillary.
That’s pretty much been debunked already.
As to the water issue, I have to agree with logical dud and John C. Snider. I only buy bottled water when I am dying of thirst and not near a fountain or clean faucet. It’s strictly a case of convenience, and I think the vast majority of people see little problem with it. What I think Andrea was trying so say is that a good bit of people these days drink only bottled water. As in buying cases of it, taking it home, and drinking from them instead of from their kitchen sinks. That’s what I think really needs to stop.
By Lyrazel
August 12, 2008 3:45 PM | Link to this
One of the problems of water bottling companies is they can drain aquifers and watersheds. GA has been in a major drought so with bottling companies taking the drinking water it hurts homeowners and small towns. The fact so many bottlers sell city water to consumers is one of the best jokes a fancy label can hide. There are sometimes good reasons to buy a bottle of water, or get one for an airplane ride. The secret is to keep the bottle and re-use it as many times as possible then recycle. Giving kids sugar-laden drinks is ludicrous. Teaching kids about impulse buying and nutrition might help them make smarter decisions when they are buying for themselves.
By Gale
August 12, 2008 3:53 PM | Link to this
Truth, Have I got a job for those 12 million illegals!
By USinUK
August 13, 2008 9:18 AM | Link to this
Truth -
My favorite place in Italy is Decenzano del Garda, a little town up on Lake Garda. Just a little town with great scenery. The Alps are across the lake and the wall around the city was built to keep out the Huns.
those pesky Huns! I’ve never been to the lakes, but have heard they’re fantastic. I’ve also heard you go there for a long weekend, but not much longer :-)
I really liked Verona. It has the only working Roman Coliseum. Verona just feels like Italy. It’s hard to explain, but Venice was not actually Italy. It was a sovereign nation. Vevice is sort of the New Orleans of Italy. It is one of a kind.
most major cities like Venice, Florence, etc, were city-states. Venice is different primarily because it was a major port city and, as such, was seriously influenced by the Ottoman Empire, trade with the Far East, etc. But, yes, it is definitely one-of-a-kind!
The only problem I had with Italy was that I didn’t see a single Italian Exotic car. Not even a single Ferrari. All Fiats. Also, not a lot of commodes in the restrooms, just a hole in the floor. Gross.
things are getting better in the major cities when it comes to their “lavs”, but when you go to the small towns, yes, there are still a lot of hole-in-the-floor bathrooms. as for the cars - I dig seeing all the Vespas! one of my favorite pics from Sienna I took from a bridge over a small side street where there was easily 50-75 Vespas parked in a row … now, THAT’S Italian!
There was a lot about Venice I loved. I can’t believe you did go to St. Mark’s. I took a picture looking up at the inside of the rotunda and there were beams of light coming in from the windows. My daughter has that picture as her desktop on her computer.
I’m sure it’s gorgeous. But big crowds make me homicidal. The progression usually goes something like, “wow, this is amazing … oh, excuse me … look at - oops, sorry … did you see - please, stop pushing …” to the point where I just need to leave before I hurt someone. My excursions to the British Museum usually never last for more than an hour for just that reason. Way cool stuff - too bad about all the people.
I would love to go back and not be working
hey - look at it this way - there are worse places to be when you’re working!
now … where to go for our autumn vacation … I want to do the Big Hole (aka the Grand Canyon), Monument Park and Sedona, but the hub isn’t sure about the 10+ hour plane ride for a trip that will be only a week.
I’m open to suggestions from the Gallery … ??
By Chilao
August 13, 2008 9:30 AM | Link to this
USinUK - if you and/or your husband have never been to the Grand Canyon, you MUST go.
the word awesome was created just for the Grand Canyon. I have been there at least nine times.
If doing Sedona, you could also do ShipRock, northwest New Mexico. and FourCorners for that matter.
By Chilao
August 13, 2008 9:35 AM | Link to this
and then from there of course, it is just a hop-skip-and-a-jump over to Mesa Verde, Aztec, NM, (Anasazi ruins right in town) and Chaco Canyon. but that is 50-60 miles on a gravel road. LOL . but HIGHLY recommended. I have never been to Canyon de Chelly(NE AZ), somehow missed that.
Your husband might even end up buying a cowboy hat. LMAO
By Gale
August 13, 2008 9:38 AM | Link to this
How about north? Denmark, Finland, Norway?
By USinUK
August 13, 2008 9:48 AM | Link to this
Chilao -
ooo … Mesa Verde - I have heard amazing things about it!
ShipRock, northwest New Mexico. and FourCorners for that matter
deets, please … what are they like? what’s there to do?
Your husband might even end up buying a cowboy hat. LMAO
you think you’re laughing? you don’t know him - I do and I’m REALLY laughing!!! :-D (he is the quintessential Brit - everything but the brolly and bowler)
Gale -
How about north? Denmark, Finland, Norway?
they would make a great summer trip when we could enjoy the 20+ hours of daylight! the hub and I are talking about going at the end of October … it’ll be getting dark and cold - NOT very vacation-y.
By Gale
August 13, 2008 10:03 AM | Link to this
Ah well, I keep them on my list for when my partner finally tires of Disney World. The only thing we found we didn’t like about New Mexico was the hours to travel between fabulous places to see. Her dad lives in Las Cruses near the Mexican border and Sante Fe is to the north. Beautiful places to see, no doubt. I like to go in the early spring when the dessert is blooming.
By Chilao
August 13, 2008 10:05 AM | Link to this
Shiprock is in northwest New Mexico, search on it. Huge object jutting out of the ground, visible for miles. Has religious significance to the Navajo.
Four Corners is where UT/AZ/NM/CO meet. Navajo Nation controlled. Gatekeeper is usually a former USMC Navajo. (don’t mess with ‘em, in other words)
Chaco Canyon has many Anasazi ruins.(pre-Navajo culture that died out around 1200AD, actually dispersed to elsewhere for reasons unknown, most likely drought-related)
“cowboy hat” would be an insult in my family, too redneck-ish. LOL However, when you are the high plains, and the wind is blowing, and you can turn your head down, curl the hat down, nothing keeps the wind off your neck better.
By USinUK
August 13, 2008 10:20 AM | Link to this
Chilao and Gale -
you guys left off the best part … THE FOOD!!! mmmmmm, boyhowdy. that’s why I’d go - just to go from one SW restaurant to the next …
Gale -
The only thing we found we didn’t like about New Mexico was the hours to travel between fabulous places to see
yeah - I have to remind myself to NOT look at US maps and think in UK distances … what would be a 1-hour drive in the UK is probably a 4-hour trek in the US
Chilao -
Gatekeeper is usually a former USMC Navajo. (don’t mess with ‘em, in other words)
now how cool is THAT … ya gotta wonder if he’s a Wind Talker …
However, when you are the high plains, and the wind is blowing, and you can turn your head down, curl the hat down, nothing keeps the wind off your neck better.
I’ll bet … but while my husband has Robert Redford’s handsome laugh lines next to his blue/gray eyes, he (and I, for that matter) would just look silly in cowboy gear … (I wore a fantastic wide-brimmed hat when I was in Venice last week and got a lot of grief from my family, calling me Rebecca of Sunnybrook Farm … I can only imagine the abuse they’d hurl on me for a 10-gal hat!)
By Truth
August 13, 2008 10:43 AM | Link to this
UsinnerU
St. Mark’s was crowded. I guess since we got there literally right after one of their floods, that it was fairly deserted. I could see how it could be very crowded. And I haven’t been there since 1986.
Africa. Especially Egypt. Been to Morocco and Libya. Save your time. it was just very dirty and very 3rd world as is most of the Northern African countries. But Egypt would be worth the time. One thing about Africa, it is definitely different.
Central America. Hit several countries especially Costa Rica. And of course there is the European Playground, the Caribbean. Hell, you could fly straight into Havana. Or the British Virgins, and the American Virgins: of course my favorite is St. Croix. And the Netherlands Antilles are always nice if you stay away from Aruba.
But here is the best: Marsh Harbor. Charter a boat and visit the Outer Abacos. Hopetown, Green Turtle Cay. It is all just fantastic. Most islands are about 3 hour sail apart so you get a great day sail in and get in in plenty of time to see the islands.
BTW. GF’s mother got her car broken into so they ran back out to the burbs, so all is well… GF’s house is her’s again.
And for your vacation, of course there is Miami. LOL!!
By Truth
August 13, 2008 10:48 AM | Link to this
Billy
That’s pretty much been debunked already.
Really? When did that happen? Maybe on Salon.com,. but on Monday, ABC News said this:
http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/story?id=5553013&page=1
By Chilao
August 13, 2008 10:58 AM | Link to this
And for your vacation, of course there is Miami
USinUK - just make sure you dress to blend in(wink wink), your husband will thank you for it.
By USinUK
August 13, 2008 11:05 AM | Link to this
Truth -
Sen. Hillary Clinton would be the Democratic presidential nominee if John Edwards had been caught in his lie about an extramarital affair and forced out of the race last year, insists a top Clinton campaign aide, making a charge that could exacerbate previously existing tensions between the camps of Clinton and Sen. Barack Obama.
I see what you mean about ABC, but they’re just reporting what a Clinton aide says … hardly proof that had Edwards been out of the race, those people would have voted for Hill and not Barak
On vacations:
1) Africa - we’d love to go and are planning to, but since we’re talking about Kenya, we’re going to wait until Zimbabwe gets rid of Mugabe (too much unrest in the region)
2) Caribbean - too much beach (you forget - the hub and I are so white, we’re practically blue … we don’t do beaches)
3) Miami - that will be for our 10th anniv, since it’s where we met! :-)
4) Costa Rica - definitely on the list - it’s just a matter of getting him jazzed about the plane journey. we have 2 sets of friends who went and raved about it!
5) Morroco & Libya - I want to go to Morroco, hub doesn’t. Hub wants to go to Libya, I don’t.
6) Turkey - probably next year, if the militants stop the random bombing in Istanbul.
7) Egypt - a definite possibility.
and YAY for your gf!! I know she’s got to be happy that her fam has decamped! what’s the story on her sister? any news on the Visa/work permit front?? could she go back to school and come here on a student visa for a while?
By USinUK
August 13, 2008 11:16 AM | Link to this
Chilao -
just make sure you dress to blend in(wink wink)
haha … talk about feeling the refreshing breezes!
By Mara
August 13, 2008 11:28 AM | Link to this
Autumn vacation? My suggestion is California. Yeah, I know…how boring. But…a few years ago my honey and I went out to SanFran and did what they call a “wine and hike” through the Santa Cruz mountains. Beautiful scenery, wonderful guided hikes with (always) fabulous wines to accompany the picnic lunch they send with you. Explored the breath-taking Muir Woods Monument and the Mt. Shasta wildlife refuge. And the Lick Observatory. And the Winchester Mystery House. And…well…you get the idea
After spent a few days doing that, we took a drive down to Carmel and went poking through the art shops there. We had a fab time and I wouldn’t hesitate to go back one day, when the economy gets better maybe.
By JokesOn
August 13, 2008 11:42 AM | Link to this
4) Costa Rica - definitely on the list - it’s just a matter of getting him jazzed about the plane journey. we have 2 sets of friends who went and raved about it!
Which coast would you be considering?
I liked the comforts of the east coast. Yet, the second (and third-twelfth) we went to the west doing the fly-and-drive packaged (rental car with coupons to use at nearly all of the hotels along the way) just touring the rain forests, kayak rivers, waterfalls and volcano and now can not imagine doing the east coast again. For cheap plush comfort I do the Iberostars in South Cancun/Cozumel.
By Truth
August 13, 2008 11:48 AM | Link to this
UsinnerU
No one will know for sure about the Edwards thing. I saw where 13% of democrats support McCain and 13% of republicans support Obama. It is going to be interesting.
Libya and Morocco. I wouldn’t go back. Maybe morocco, but i had some very bad experiences in Libya. Long story, but if you go, have no link with the US.
Morocco. Only a few places are worth seeing. It is mostly just very old buildings with some very sad looking people. The women are gorgeous, all look like Cleopatra. But other than that, I was not impressed.
Blue-White people don’t do very well in the Abacos on a sail boat. I tan very dark every year so I was cool with it. I did buy one of those goofy hats with the very long brim and the cloth that is velcroed to the back to keep the sun off your nose and ears. The Abacos are all British Loyalist so your hubby might like it.
GF thing is very cool. I was looking forward to seeing her in the Miami business suit: you know, hot pants tight blouse and red heels. LOL!! Maybe I’ll buy her that outfit and I can be her boss.
By USinUK
August 13, 2008 11:52 AM | Link to this
Mara -
Autumn vacation? My suggestion is California. Yeah, I know…how boring. But…a few years ago my honey and I went out to SanFran and did what they call a “wine and hike” through the Santa Cruz mountains.
okay. my ideal vacation would be to start in Vancouver and take a month+ to drive down the Pac Coast Hwy, stopping in the Olympia National Park, Seattle, Portland, etc … working my way down into California, spending a good week in the San Fran and Santa Cruz area … beeyooteeful!!! and, if I timed it right, do whale watches all along the way.
Jokes -
Yet, the second (and third-twelfth) we went to the west doing the fly-and-drive packaged (rental car with coupons to use at nearly all of the hotels along the way) just touring the rain forests, kayak rivers, waterfalls and volcano and now can not imagine doing the east coast again. For cheap plush comfort I do the Iberostars in South Cancun/Cozumel.
the folks I know who went did the west coast and rave-rave-RAVED about it! how is the country for driving? it seems like it would be a bit catch-as-catch-can roadwise.
By Gandalf, the Grey
August 13, 2008 12:02 PM | Link to this
Drink Beer, much safer than water, comes in glass bottles, and it got Europe through the Dark Ages! WOOT!
By USinUK
August 13, 2008 12:12 PM | Link to this
Truth -
Morocco. Only a few places are worth seeing.
I’m all about the souks (soukhs?) - the markets. yeah, I know … be prepared to haggle … but, still … I love old marketplaces.
and let’s not forget … THE FOOD!!! yumm tagines, kabobs, lamb, hummus, couscous … yumyumyum
The Abacos are all British Loyalist so your hubby might like it
he’s kind of meh about that sort of thing - he did a lot of work in Bermuda, so he’s been there/done that.
Maybe I’ll buy her that outfit and I can be her boss.
gah!! oversharing!!! oversharing!!! ;-)
By Truth
August 13, 2008 1:01 PM | Link to this
UsinnerU
Really not a big fan of hotpants. She already has what i like to see her in and we’ll leave it at that.
Food in Morocco. Damn. It was good for a day or two, but I was craving something that wasn’t quite as “rugged” by the time I left. They have this thing about heads. If you order lamb, they bring out a baby sheep, skinned except for it’s little lamb head which still has the wool and the eyes. Sorry. I don’t want to get to know my food that well.
There were lots of buffets. We were there shooting a golf tournament for SportsChannel America which is now defunct. Every meal had this big ugly fish that (of course) still had it’s head, but looked like a serial killer had attacked it’s body with a pair of hatchets. And of course, everyone picked out pieces of fish meat with their hands, even though there were utensils. When we used the utensils, the other men looked at us like we were sissies.
The whole thing was all about macho. During the press conferences, the European and African press wouldn’t use a tri-pod (same with the Atlanta Olympics) and scoffed at us for using ours. They thought it was macho to be able to hold the camera steady for 30-40 minutes. Of course they never did hold it steady and their footage looked like . . well, like European TV.
When I got back, my biggest client wanted to surprise me and took me to that Moroccan restaurant on Buford Hwy. I talked her into going next door to The Rusty Nail. (great lasagna.)
We were with the government because the golf tournament was the King Hussan golf tournament. That’s not even the current king. Again, this was in the late 80S. But we were driven around Rabat in buses that would go at about 80 mph through city streets. If we would have hit someone, I’m pretty sure we would have never stopped. The caste system there is very real. And if you go, get yourself a berka and be done with it. It was very Islam in the late 80s, so I’m sure it is much worse now for women. None of our female crew members ever traveled alone, even if it was just heading for the clubhouse to use the restroom during the tournament. Remember rape in many Muslim countries is not called rape, it’s called courtin’.
By Mara
August 13, 2008 1:07 PM | Link to this
anybody want to comment on Mukasey’s most recent statement that just because a law gets broken doesn’t mean that a crime is committed (paraphrase)?
By Billy
August 13, 2008 1:43 PM | Link to this
“No one will know for sure about the Edwards thing.”
No, no one will. So why are you stating it as fact and then supporting it with a quote from one of Clinton’s top people?
“Really? When did that happen? Maybe on Salon.com,. but on Monday, ABC News said this:”
Oh, I dunno, how about on Monday afternoon!
Of course, even though it’s factual information it is coming from a liberal outlet, therefore it is automatically suspect in your discerning eyes…
By Chilao
August 13, 2008 1:54 PM | Link to this
The fox guarding the henhouse. No surprise with the Goodling thing. Just don’t YOU try that. You would learn ‘civil law’ does apply to some, mainly YOU.
By Truth
August 13, 2008 2:01 PM | Link to this
Billy
Once again, calm down.
No, no one will. So why are you stating it as fact and then supporting it with a quote from one of Clinton’s top people?
Because that quote supports what i said. What are you saying? That because it comes from Clinton’s people that it can’t be true? Sounds like you are just trying to pick a fight.
Oh, I dunno, how about on Monday afternoon!
OK. So what happened on Monday afternoon that would have debunked it? Calm down and see if you can find a source that supports your claim.
Of course, even though it’s factual information it is coming from a liberal outlet, therefore it is automatically suspect in your discerning eyes…
As per usual, you seem very confused. I gave a liberal outlet as my source, You questioned my source. So it seems that the liberal source would automatically be suspect in YOUR eyes. Why would i give a source that is suspect in MY eyes?
I’m going to try this again, but I’m pretty sure you still won’t get it. Can you post anything from any source that proves your statement that the conflict about Edwards costing Clinton the nomination had been debunked. That is what you said. At least, try to prove it.
By Mara
August 13, 2008 2:26 PM | Link to this
Chilao - LOL!! I’d give a LOT to get to find out which laws I can break without committing a crime! Do you suppose a “contribution” to the RNC might elicit said list?
oh, and by the way…per the AJC front page…a clan of Big Foot’s have been discovered living in the North Georgia Mountains. More info Friday.
By observer
August 13, 2008 2:30 PM | Link to this
To Truth:
OK. So what happened on Monday afternoon that would have debunked it? Calm down and see if you can find a source that supports your claim.
[http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/washington/2008/08/iowa-expert-an.html]
It Says: Iowa expert: An early Edwards exit would have aided Obama, not Clinton. Au contraire, argues David Redlawsk — head of the University of Iowa’s Hawkeye Poll and, in the walk-up to the caucuses, himself an Edwards backer.
By Gale
August 13, 2008 2:31 PM | Link to this
Guys! It is what it is. Edwards was not found out before he left the process voluntarily. Obama’s radical preacher ties were not found out until late in the campaign. We will not, and can not know how either event would have effected the race had it been known earlier. It isn’t important now.
By observer
August 13, 2008 2:33 PM | Link to this
I should not have choped up the quote from the article:
“I believe we would have won Iowa, and Clinton today would therefore have been the nominee,” the often pugnacious Wolfson said.
Au contraire, argues David Redlawsk — head of the University of Iowa’s Hawkeye Poll and, in the walk-up to the caucuses, himself an Edwards backer.
An e-mail sent today by the school’s news service says that polling on caucus night supervised by Redlawsk indicated “that the absence of Edwards would have helped (Barack) Obama.”
By Billy
August 13, 2008 2:35 PM | Link to this
“truth” —
Forgive me. The “on Monday afternoon” was put in bold which evidently concealed the link. If you were to click on it, it would have taken you to the article. But here it is again. If that’s too much trouble, the first sentence reads:
“This afternoon, former Hillary Clinton flack Howard Wolfson, confronted by a Fox News colleague with actual Iowa polling that suggested Clinton wasn’t the de facto second choice of John Edwards voters, backed away from his claim that an early disclosure of Edwards’ affair cost Clinton the nomination.”
“As per usual, you seem very confused. I gave a liberal outlet as my source, You questioned my source. So it seems that the liberal source would automatically be suspect in YOUR eyes. Why would i give a source that is suspect in MY eyes?”
I’m not confused in the least. ABC is not liberal. It’s corporate, just like the rest of the MSM. Furthermore, I was not questioning your source. I was calling BS on your interpretation of the report, seeing as how (A) it was relaying solely what one man said, not saying that itself, and (B) the man in question was Clinton’s Communications Director.
As to why you would use a source you automatically deem suspect, the answer is simple. It’s something both sides do. The right has been pushing the idea that the MSM has a huge liberal bias for years. Once people have bought into that enough that they assume the MSM always reports the left side of things, then, whenever the MSM reports something that supports a conservative view, the right says, “Look, it’s only the radical left that disagrees. Even (The New York Times/ABC/CBS/etc.) agrees with us on this! The left does it too, most recently with the forged letter connecting Iraq and al-Qaida. Because even the noted liberal magazine The American Conservative verified that the letter was indeed a forgery.
I’m going to try this again. Why do you parrot what a top Clinton aide says as fact when it’s clearly conjecture that is unsupported by evidence?
By Mara
August 13, 2008 2:46 PM | Link to this
Chilao - I posted a reply but it seems to have disappeared into the blogosphere. What I said was…I wonder if a “contribution” to the RNC would score me a copy of which laws I can break without committing a crime and which ones will get me tossed into jail.
But for more mportant news…
according to the front page of the AJC, a clan of bigfoots has been discovered in the North Georgia mountians. More info on Friday.
By Billy
August 13, 2008 3:08 PM | Link to this
“Truth” —
Go back to my previous post and click on “on Monday afternoon”.
Then come back and see if you can try not to be an asshat.
By Billy
August 13, 2008 3:30 PM | Link to this
WTF? I thought my 2:35 had been lost in the ether. It sure took a lot longer than the advertised 5 minutes to show…
By Chilao
August 13, 2008 3:37 PM | Link to this
Mara - the ajc has quite a comment section over the BigFootInNorthGeorgia find…LOL
I cannot wait until Friday. I believe they exist, just not sure this is it. In north GA.
By A-s-s-hat
August 13, 2008 4:39 PM | Link to this
My girlfriend is sexy and I want you all to know about it. It’s very important that you all think of me as the virile, hard-nosed, uncompromising manly man that I am. More details later.
By Truth
August 13, 2008 5:59 PM | Link to this
Billy
I’m not confused in the least. ABC is not liberal. It’s corporate,
Yes, you’re confused. ABC / Disney is very liberal. All of them except PBS are corporate, but ABC, CBS and NBC are all very liberal. I have worked in the media locally, nationally and internationally since 1979 and have been in lots of newsrooms and yes, the people making the decisions at the big three and CNN are all very liberal. That’s why Rupert Murdock saw a need and has made billions. A very large part of America did not have a voice in the media. FOX fixed that.
I could list dozens of examples such as the Anchor for the CBS Evening News being forced to retire early because he was caught in a horribly biased peace of journalism or the lack of reporting of the Edwards scandal for the weeks it had been known, but was only reported when Edwards admitted it. The host of ABC’s Sunday Morning Political show being the press secretary for Bill Clinton, Meet The Press round-table discussions having people from 4 liberal organizations and one conservative, automatically giving a 4 to 1 bias in viewpoints, considering everyone gets a chance to talk. Hillary making cookies and telling little Katy Couric about the horrible Right Wang Conspiracy that was making her husband have sex with an underling in the Oval Office. You can list an occasional example of a conservative bias, but nothing like the systematic control of the media by people with a very biased liberal viewpoints.
Liberals rarely see the bias. “They aren’t biased, they reported Rev. Wright”. I have heard that on here. The mainstream is forced to cover some stories like the Edwards scandal or be left in the dust by FOX, but all in all, the MSM as you call it, is extremely biased.
I’m going to try this again. Why do you parrot what a top Clinton aide says as fact when it’s clearly conjecture that is unsupported by evidence?
I listed that aid as a source. The contradiction that you posted certainly debunked nothing. You gave another opinion. It is hard to debunk an opinion with another opnion. You have to disprove the possibility and you didn’t do that.
I didn’t want to fight and argue about nonsense, which is what you were looking to do. We have two opinions just like our respective sources have two opinions, but nothing was debunked or proven as much as you would have liked for it to be.
By Chilao
August 14, 2008 9:31 AM | Link to this
Mara - speaking of BigFoot in Georgia, I read a hilarious book recently, A Walk in the Woods, two not-in-the-best-shape 40-ish guys plan to hike the Appalachian Trail, start in north GA, and apparently that section to the NC line is some of the roughest of the whole trail.
I have hiked ON it in several sections/states, but never camped on it. day hikes.
Hilarious, recommended read at any rate. by Bill Bryson.
By USinUK
August 14, 2008 9:41 AM | Link to this
Chilao -
If you liked A Walk in the Woods, may I also recommend Notes from a Small Island (about Bill Bryson hiking the length of England, from the southernmost point to John O’Groats in Scotland) and Notes from a Big Country (a series of articles about moving back to the states after 20 years in the UK)
By Mara
August 14, 2008 9:56 AM | Link to this
Chilao - the more I think about it the more I’m wondering if, by “North Georgia mountains” they weren’t talking about the Caucus Mountains (in the northern part of the Republic of Georgia). That might be what the Russians are looking for. It’s not an invasion, it’s the hunt for Bigfoot! LOL! :^D
I read a hilarious book recently, A Walk in the Woods, two not-in-the-best-shape 40-ish guys plan to hike the Appalachian Trail
is it Dave Barry funny, or Erma Bombeck funny?
By Chilao
August 14, 2008 10:01 AM | Link to this
USinUK, yes, you May. (mention it, even without the Mother); I learned of the Notes book when reading woods. I have read Paul Theroux’s The Kingdom by the Sea, his train travel around the perimeter of the Brit Isle, but doubt it had ANY humour in it. In fact it was probably dark and condescending LOL (I have been to Exmoor, Bath, HolyHead, Lake Windemere, etc etc).
Yeah, Notes is on the list.
By USinUK
August 14, 2008 10:23 AM | Link to this
Chilao -
You might find Louis Theroux’s TV series interesting (I’m sure it’s playing on one cable station or another) - he did one series called Weird Weekends, then did follow-ups where he’s done things like meet and talk with serious gamblers in Vegas, spent a week with the fine folks from Westboro Baptist Church, things like that. The interesting thing about it is that he doesn’t go in to make fun or act condescending to them - he actually does try to understand them and find out what makes them tick.
By USinUK
August 14, 2008 10:49 AM | Link to this
Oh, and, yeah, the whole bigfoot story has made the news here in the UK as well …
is it me, or does the thing in the freezer look like an ape suit? just sayin.
By Gale
August 14, 2008 11:23 AM | Link to this
It would be interesting if they are real and intelligent. I wonder if we could keep from destroying them. It’s rather like wondering what would happen if space aliens finally made contact. Could we control our arrogance?
By Chilao
August 14, 2008 11:24 AM | Link to this
Mara - I was not sure Bryson was TRYING to be funny, actually(but he was). could not compare to Barry OR Bombeck. (probably closer to Bombeck.).
USinUK - I’ll have to look for that, Theroux(Paul) is one of my most fave authors. Read most if not all, could not get into Picture Palace.
By USinUK
August 14, 2008 11:41 AM | Link to this
Chilao -
Well, Louis is Paul’s son, so I think you might like him. I’ll have to read something by pater (but will avoid Picture Palace)
I’ve just started Rabbit, Run - so far, so good, but man Updike doesn’t half like descriptions … which is fine, but sometimes, there’s only so much you can read about rowhouses before you want to shout “IT’S THE POOR PART OF TOWN! I GOT IT ALREADY!!”
By Billy
August 14, 2008 12:15 PM | Link to this
By Truth
*August 12, 2008 9:39 AM *
You have to feel bad about the Edwards deal. Most of his votes would have gone to Hillary.
No source cited at all, yet the opinion, nay, conjecture, is presented as if a fact.
By Truth
August 13, 2008 10:48 AM | Link to this
Really? When did that happen? Maybe on Salon.com,. but on Monday, ABC News said this:
http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/story?id=5553013&page=1
You cite ABC as your source, when in fact your source is the same as their source — Wolfson, who said what he did solely because that’s what he wants to think.
*The contradiction that you posted certainly debunked nothing. You gave another opinion. It is hard to debunk an opinion with another opnion. You have to disprove the possibility and you didn’t do that.
I didn’t want to fight and argue about nonsense, which is what you were looking to do. We have two opinions just like our respective sources have two opinions, but nothing was debunked or proven as much as you would have liked for it to be.*
If you’d read the effin’ article you’d have seen that Wolfson himself backed down from the assertion after confronted — by someone with Fox News, no less — with polling data that indicated Obama would have benefited. No, it’s not disproving it, but if you want to see where the first person made any sort of definitive claim in the matter I refer you to your 9:39 post from the 12th. If you don’t want to look for it, it’s the one I pasted at the beginning of this post.
As to the bias of the media…I call BS. That’s the greatest achievement of the right — convincing 2/3 of the country that the MSM are hugely biased against it. I don’t expect to change your mind, but if ABC were worth a damn they would’ve researched the polling data themselves after Wolfson made his unsubstantiated claim. Why would such a liberal organization let the statement go, when the only thing it serves to do is to divide the Democratic Party a couple of weeks before the convention?
The MSM might skew, say. 5% left, but Faux News skews 75% right and talk radio 95%. I’m just making those numbers up, but that’s my point. I don’t care if you’ve worked in the media or not, the MSM is not some huge socialist bloc out to change the American way of life. That’s just the right-wing mass hysteria talking.
By Copyleft
August 14, 2008 2:00 PM | Link to this
On another topic (early Friday joke)…
Sick of all the negative campaigning?
John McCain has just released a POSITIVE ad, addressed directly to his base of supporters!
http://tinyurl.com/55tutk
By Truth
August 14, 2008 2:30 PM | Link to this
Billy
And you are still blabbering on about two opinions. unbelievable. Nothing was debunked. You gave another opinion. I have heard about this controversy on every major network, but you seem to think if one guy offers his opinion, the whole thing goes away. Good luck with that stance.
And no, someone who makes up numbers about political bias is not going to convince a 29 year media veteran of anything. I understand that you get your vast media knowledge from setting on your as* in front of a TV and reading liberal websites. Pardon me for not discounting what I have seen, personally for over a quarter of a century and replace all that knowledge because some liberal whiner decides all my personal experience is BS.
You blather and blather and blather and prove nothing, as usual.
By Mara
August 14, 2008 3:19 PM | Link to this
here’s an interesting statistic -
“According to an analysis of campaign contributions by the nonpartisan [Center for Responsive Politics] (http://www.opensecrets.org/news/2008/08/troops-deployed-abroad-give-61.html) Democrat Barack Obama has received nearly six times as much money from troops deployed overseas at the time of their contributions than has Republican John McCain…the fiercely anti-war Ron Paul, though he suspended his campaign for the Republican nomination months ago, has received more than four times McCain’s haul.”
Why do the deployed troops hate America? (/snark) LOL!
okay buddy-buds, I’m outtie for the week. Gotta go celebrate eleven years of bliss with my one and only :^)
C-y’all Tuesday!
By Billy
August 14, 2008 3:50 PM | Link to this
“Truth”, if you were worth a damn you’d know the difference between “sitting” and “setting”.
I’m not trying to prove anything, moron, other than the fact that YOU took what Wolfson said and parroted it here as if it were fact. No wonder the MSM are so unreliable if a 29-yr veteran of the industry has such a hard problem weighing opinions. YES, it IS two opinions, but here is where the right gets it wrong: Wolfson’s opinion was based on wishful thinking regarding his candidate, while the contrary opinion was BASED ON POLLING DATA. The two opinions are not equal. Yes, they are still opinions, but the opinion based on the data outweighs the opinion based on wishful thinking. “Present both sides…Fair & Balanced…” Sometimes one side is stupid. All opinions are not always equal. You and Wolfson can believe Clinton would have won Iowa if you like, but until you present evidence that refutes the polling data that caused Wolfson to backtrack from his assertion…well, your opinion is wrong.
By Gale
August 14, 2008 4:02 PM | Link to this
Getting away from the inability to prove what might have been to the what might be; what do y’all think of Clinton and Obama in a DNC roll call vote? I’ll have to go back and read the rules, but I do remember that pledged delegates are only pledged for the first vote. And, the super delegates only vote if a candidate does not get the votes required. Do they vote after the first vote, or will a second vote be called if the first is inconclusive without the supers?
By Truth
August 14, 2008 4:50 PM | Link to this
Billy
Try to get yourself under control. If you can’t control your delicate emotions, i would suggest that you refrain from posting on a political blog. Your points are often adolescent and you never even come close to proving anything while you scream at others, while ignoring every point they make and/or prove.
These are not the only two people on the planet that have an opinion about this. This is a big deal to all the newscasts that have dared to cover the Edwards scandal. Every political operative has an opinion about this and here you are screaming at me because I don’t agree with the one guy that you have posted. Calm down and grow up.
Wtach TV however you like. But you really need to hide your ignorance because saying the media is corporate instead of liberal is like saying a car is blue instead of being a Ford. And statements like this: if ABC were worth a damn they would’ve researched the polling data themselves after Wolfson made his unsubstantiated claim. shows that you know absolutely nothing about television news, the way television news works or the responsibility of television news.
And as far as what you know or don’t know about FOX News, what FOX programs have you watched today … this week … this month … . You think you are obviously qualified to form all opinions and preach at others about your opinion about the media so how about justifying a little credibility? Are you anything more than just another liberal that can’t see the liberal bias in the media (say it ain’t so!) or are you at least a private citizen who studies all the networks or are you a professional media consultant?
By USinUK
August 15, 2008 11:20 AM | Link to this
Billy -
When asked to use the word “horticulture” in a sentence, Dorothy Parker replied, “You can lead a horticulture but you can’t make her think”
or, another way to look at it
“Never try to teach a pig to sing - it just frustrates you and irritates the pig”
You’ve heard of drug-resistent bacteria? Truth is a fact-resisitent poster. You can show him one fact after another, but he will staunchly refuse to acknowledge them. You’ll find that your head will stop hurting when you stop banging it against the wall.
Truth -
If you can’t control your delicate emotions, i would suggest that you refrain from posting on a political blog.
ahem … POT. or are you the KETTLE? Out of all of us irregulars, you are the LAST person who needs to lecture anyone else on controlling their delicate emotions.
… shows that you know absolutely nothing about television news, the way television news works or the responsibility of television news
honey, just because you’re a Stick doesn’t mean you’re Edward R. Flippin Murrow, so stop acting like it.
In fact, a good journalist PREPARES himself with the facts of an issue before an interview and will REBUT someone when they veer off into fantasyland. The “journalism” you’re suggesting would give equal weight to someone who claims the holocaust never happened because the reporter shouldn’t question or rebut their statements.
By Truth
August 15, 2008 12:02 PM | Link to this
Friday rant by Truth.
Strange day at the blog.
THE OIL WARS
We are witnessing what my old chemistry teacher called the 21st century energy wars. (I think he actually called them the oil wars.)
A couple of years ago, Russia punished The Ukraine by turning off their natural gas. Now they are going after Georgia because of the huge pipeline going through the country which connects the rich oil fields in the Caspian Sea area with Eastern Europe. It seems that the world understands the power of controlling the world’s petroleum. That is the world, except the US.
In the US, the huge answer to our problems is: “It will take ten years to produce by drilling so lets get wind-power to replace oil” In ten years we will be in the nastiest world war that we have ever seen, if we do not strengthen our ability to be energy independent. Think it can’t happen? Does anyone know Japan’s very real reason for the attack at Pearl Harbor? It was about oil. And that was 1941.