AJC.com > Opinion > Woman to Woman > Archives > 2008 > May > 24 > Entry
Should there be more restrictions on pay-per-view pornography in hotels?
Shaunti Feldhahn, a right-leaning columnist, writes the commentary this week and Andrea Cornell Sarvady, a left-leaning columnist, responds.
Commentary
Pornography use has become a major relational and societal problem. Internet pop-ups and graphic spammers have made porn difficult to avoid — and sexual addictions have exploded. National Coalition for the Protection of Children and Families research shows that two-thirds of men in their 20s and 30s report being “regular users” of pornography.
Studies differ on what percent are actually addicted — with a compulsion they feel unable to stop, and a need to go harder-core to get the same “high” — but it is likely 10 percent or more. And this personal problem has become a major public one. For instance, a poll at the American Academy of Matrimonial Lawyers’ 2003 meeting found that “excessive interest in online porn” was a major factor in one-third of the divorces handled by those attorneys.
Into this loaded environment, hotel chains offer pay-per-view porn to millions of men (and, increasingly, women) who feel trapped by this compulsion. As with any addiction, users confronted with porn find it difficult to turn down. They can have the front desk block it — but also know that all they have to do is call back and change their mind.
A 2004 New York Times article noted that half of all hotel guests order porn. And since it accounts for 70 percent of in-room revenue, many hotel chains prefer not to look too deeply into how it is damaging their customers.
A family-groups coalition recently met with Marriott International representatives, and showed them just a partial list of the incredibly offensive titles and descriptions they were offering. By phone, National Coalition President Rick Schatz described the representatives’ shock. Time will tell whether the chain acts to eliminate porn entirely, or at least have guests “opt-in” to put it on their television, instead of having it there unless they opt-out.
Drury Inn, Ritz-Carlton and Omni hotels have all eliminated porn as an option. An Omni press release from early 2000 said the decision, “Was morally and conscionably driven … in response to what it perceives as a growing need for corporate America to support pro-family issues.”
The need is stark and obvious. Let’s hope Marriott and others make the hard but right choice to do something about it.
Rebuttal
Hotel rooms are dangerous places for men, aren’t they? In addition to the temptations for the porn addict, there are the bottles in the mini bar to tempt the alcoholic, chocolate and chips to taunt the overeater.
In fact, the front desk should probably start collecting businessmen’s belts when they check in. After all, left alone with all these hellish vices, an anxiety-ridden traveler just might hang himself from the shower rod.
Removing all adult entertainment options from hotel systems because it’s too tempting for some is extreme. So it turns out that half of all hotel guests appear to enjoy watching other people have sex. What should we do about this? Call the FBI?
Well, that’s exactly what a coalition of conservative groups did in 2006, imploring the FBI and the Department of Justice to investigate pay-per-view movies that violate federal and state obscenity laws.
A spokesperson at the Department of Justice promised to get back to me pronto, to report on the status of that urgent 2006 request. I haven’t heard from her yet; maybe the DOJ is too busy working on their massive child pornography caseload. Where are their priorities?
I did just speak with Roger Conner, vice-president of communications for Marriott International, who told me two days after his meeting with conservative groups that a “constructive” conversation ensued.
“We’re a “very strong family company” Conner stressed, clearly not relishing the role of pornography defender. Yet he also explained that Marriott doesn’t have total control over their franchisee network and that, in the end, “we think it’s a matter of adult choice.” I agree, and admit to more concern over the women who choose this career than the men “forced” to watch the fruits of such labors.
When it comes to hotel entertainment systems, X-rated fare is not available everywhere, easy to avoid where it is, and expensive to boot. For some it’s worth the price. Others might find the bedside hotel Bible and a cold shower equally alluring, and they don’t cost a thing.
How can hotel chains deliver us from evil? They don’t define it; we do. So if you seek salvation along with your room key, then act like an adult. Choose it.
Comments
By USinUK
May 27, 2008 8:36 AM | Link to this
YAY ANDI!!! Well said!!!
Shaunti, you may not like porn, but it is legal. Don’t like it? Don’t (ahem) PAY FOR IT and watch it. It’s not like these guys - and women - are dragged off the street into the hotel room, tied to their chair, had their eyes taped open and were forced to watch these movies. They sought the movies out then paid for them. It was their choice.
As for “saving hotel guests from themselves” - puh-LEEZ. This is where the “personal responsibility” issue that the right likes to pontificate about comes into play. It’s not the hotel’s job to play nursemaid to their guests - it’s their job to serve their guests.
By JokesOn
May 27, 2008 8:50 AM | Link to this
Seriously tired of this topic.
I agree that it should be an opt IN situation when dealing with hotels, but not because porn is one of the roots of evil.
Sex is how adult humans play. And, just like with all other playing, be it sports or general entertainment, we like to watch other humans play.
As for making this a gender issue: based on many studies, men and women, subconsciously, are aroused by porn nearly the same. I think it is still largely a societal taboo for women to openly enjoy it - like much else of women’s sexuality.
By lovelyliz
May 27, 2008 8:53 AM | Link to this
If you don’t like porn, don’t watch it. These hotel chains have safeguards to keep children for viewing adult entertainment and that’s enough for me.
Personally, I don’t get porn, but it’s a legal product for adults, so if you want to pay those premium prices go for it. Otherwise don’t.
By USinUK
May 27, 2008 9:06 AM | Link to this
Jokes -
Seriously tired of this topic.
I’m seriously with you - but, we’re also talking about Shaunti Feldhahn … Moral Policeman of the Universe (insert superhero theme here). This is the same woman who wants to ban Abercrombie Fitch ads from the mall and enforce strict dress codes where girls can’t show their bra straps.
Which leads me to wonder (in my best Carrie Bradshaw voice) … when it comes to sex and violence, why do people on the right go into the high-speed-jerks over the former, but you rarely hear a peep from them about the latter???
By Go, Carrie!
May 27, 2008 9:27 AM | Link to this
USinUK, I think you’ve defined at 9:06 what the topic SHOULD be. Good question indeed. Now lets watch while Mrs. Feldhahn refuses to answer it.
By Copyleft
May 27, 2008 9:43 AM | Link to this
Well, I agree with Shaunti 100%! Just because people are adults doesn’t mean they should be allowed to make their own decisions, including ones that the religious right might disagree with!
It’s the job of government AND business to enforce strictly religious moral codes on us decadent, perverted citizens who can’t be persuaded to “do the right thing.” Clearly, we can’t be trusted with freedom, so someone else—someone like Shaunti—must take the decision out of our hands, lest we do something Sinful and Immoral.
Thank you, Shaunti, for standing up for what’s RIGHT: preventing adults from choosing for themselves what to do, despite what Supply-Side Jesus taught them.
By JokesOn
May 27, 2008 9:52 AM | Link to this
Know what boggles my mind?
You have to be 21 to go to a strip bar, but only 18 to work there as a stripper.
By USinUK
May 27, 2008 10:09 AM | Link to this
Know what boggles my mind? That TV stations will pixillate the cleft of a person’s behind but have no problem showing someone getting their heads chopped off.
By USinUK
May 27, 2008 10:15 AM | Link to this
sorry … that should be head. singular.
By Archie
May 27, 2008 10:25 AM | Link to this
No, there should not be more restrictions on pay-per-view pornography in hotels. If you don’t want to watch then don’t but don’t try to stop me from watching it. A true sex addict can get to porn outside of a hotel room so this conservative group isn’t really doing anything to benefit a sex addict and really there are legitimate sex addicts out there that really could use some help yet conservative groups that Shanti talks about do nothing to help.
By Hmmmmm
May 27, 2008 10:32 AM | Link to this
So are hotels dropping the ability to order porn on the TV in the room due to Moralistic reasons or simply due to the fact it is now in low-demand, due to many travelers now having laptops and DVDs that play on those laptops?
By JokesOn
May 27, 2008 10:38 AM | Link to this
Know what boggles my mind? That TV stations will pixillate the cleft of a person’s behind but have no problem showing someone getting their heads chopped off.
But that cleft leads to the dirty places!
The healthiest young adult I ever met had a great (single parent) mom and lived on a horse farm. She learned all about sex early given the activities of the horses, dogs, pigs and sometimes dogs with pigs.
You kind of have to get past the “ewww (maybe that should be ewe) gross” factor. She, and her friends, were the most sexually mature kids I ever knew.
Tends to make me think the act of sheltering kids is the exact opposite of what we should be doing.
By Archie
May 27, 2008 10:38 AM | Link to this
*Know what boggles my mind?
You have to be 21 to go to a strip bar, but only 18 to work there as a stripper*
Yeah,JokesON that boggled my mind too the first I understood it because I thought everybody in there was at least 21 but that’s so not true. I do like this topic though, but I do think Shanti’s commentary is silly. There are so many people suffering with sex addiction but they can’t get the treatment because of how they are treated by people like Shanti. With all of fees the government collects from adult businesses there should plenty of places a sex addict can go to get counselling. The answer is not to create a forbidden fruit situation but to talk about the legitimate dangers of over-indulgence in sex entertainment. Counselling does not cure everything but just like working out helps one get into better shape that’s the role of counselling while at the same time acknowledging that an adult is an adult.
By USinUK
May 27, 2008 10:46 AM | Link to this
But that cleft leads to the dirty places!
stoppit!! you’re making me feel funny. ;-)
it is now in low-demand, due to many travelers now having laptops and DVDs that play on those laptops?
not to mention, many companies are refusing to reimburse for “hotel entertainment expenses”
By Psych 101 Student
May 27, 2008 10:51 AM | Link to this
How do you counsel a b0ner?
By Counselor
May 27, 2008 11:06 AM | Link to this
How do you counsel a b0ner?
Work hard and Get A Head.
By JokesOn
May 27, 2008 11:07 AM | Link to this
How do you counsel a b0ner?
I believe it involves a gentle helping-hand;)
By USinUK
May 27, 2008 11:08 AM | Link to this
Psych -
How do you counsel a b0ner?
lie down and tell me about your childhood … lie down … LIE DOWN. Down, I said!! …
By Psych 101 Student
May 27, 2008 11:24 AM | Link to this
Thanks for the suggestions. Wouldn’t want to be accused of only providing lip service to a serious condition.
By Mara
May 27, 2008 1:11 PM | Link to this
boy, this topic sure elicited a lot of heartfelt discussion didn’t it?! LOL!
By Gandalf, the Grey
May 27, 2008 1:50 PM | Link to this
So, porn is ok? Is that what we are saying today? But big business can’t sell it? or can sell it? And 18 year olds work at the Pink Pony? My carpool runs right by it, when do they open? Haven’t been to a strip club in a long time! Do they have in in England?
By JokesOn
May 27, 2008 2:06 PM | Link to this
Gandalf, the Grey,
So, porn is ok? Is that what we are saying today? But big business can’t sell it? or can sell it? And 18 year olds work at the Pink Pony? My carpool runs right by it, when do they open? Haven’t been to a strip club in a long time! Do they have in in England?
Sometimes.
By Gandalf, the Grey
May 27, 2008 2:23 PM | Link to this
Porn is fun to watch in a hotel room alone, isn’t it?
By R
May 27, 2008 2:28 PM | Link to this
Any woman whose husband is traveling on business should be HAPPY that her husband has chosen to watch a little porn in the hotel room rather than go out looking for a hook-up.
Just saying, it makes staying faithful a little easier.
By USinUK
May 27, 2008 3:23 PM | Link to this
Gandalf -
yes, legal porn (no children) is okay. it’s not my cup o’ tea, but, hey, if it blows your skirt up (so to speak), then it’s none of mine …
and, yes, they have “gentlemen’s clubs” in the UK
By Truth
May 28, 2008 8:55 AM | Link to this
Who cares. With everything that we are facing right now, this is the best they can come up with as a topic? No wonder they were ashamed of opening discussion for two days.
USinUK
You have a habit of automatically taking the anti-conservative side, every time. Abercrombie Fitch has been a horrible company for years, and not just because they post naked children and pawn it off as clothing advertising.
Several African American have won suites against them for not allowing Blacks to do anything but be “greeters” at their stores. Several were fired after execs from the corporate offices would discover thay had been allowed to be sales people.
They recently released a series of Tee Shirts that are horribly racist against orientals, depicting them as the same kind of buck toothed caricatures that were used during WWII.
They are racist and sexually exploit children but because they spurred a cause that many conservatives agreed with, your knee jerk reaction was to say “This is the same woman who wants to ban Abercrombie Fitch ads from the mall”.
I think the stores should be should shut down. PLEASE do a little reading about them and their problems before you criticize anyone for opposing them. (See CBS 60 Minutes: Not exactly a conservative haven)
Hell, just go to their site and check out the “galleries”’. Go to the children’s collections, go to the gallery and see how many of those “children” are completely naked. And this sells clothes?
Sex sells. That I don’t mind, but exploiting children and being arrogantly and openly racist: that I mind.
By Lyrazel
May 28, 2008 9:02 AM | Link to this
I know hotels cater to clients. A Muslim/Baptist client can specifically ask for a room without a mini-bar and there are many specific lifestyles hotels cater to. If you are with family in Orlando on a blitz vacation to tour the sites you would not want your kids put in a room where TV ad cards show the latest Hello Kitty X movie. Hotels tend to know their customers so when a family of 5 checks in they are given family rooms (with all the cards for video games $$$$ entertainment packages). Hotels tend to put the X (its never XXX porn its soft core) cards in rooms occupied by single travelers—hence Shaunti saw one while she was on her book tour in 2004 and was offended.
One thing I find so strange is how Shaunti quotes 2004 articles. So my guess is that she never bothered to discover if: A. the hotels have not already changed their policy; and never investigated B. that by 2008 most travelers use internet for cheaper XXX porn and C. most travelers do not want exorbitant charges made to company/personal credit cards for ‘hotel entertainment’. It just leads me to believe that Andrea made the better argument by using more recent data.
It still does not change the fact the amount of body fluid sprayed about hotel rooms creates some of the dirtiest rooms on the planet even after the maid departs. Nasty places hotel rooms…
By Truth
May 28, 2008 9:03 AM | Link to this
USinUK
BTW. I recently tore up my Marriott rewards card. Not because of the porn, but because they have become such a huge rip off. They charge for everything, including Y-Fi.
My rooms are usually paid for by my clients and in order to pay for those extra charges, I either need to set up my own account or put charges on my clients bill, which I consider bad form.
Hampton Inn. Clean rooms. Free Y-Fi. Nice, free little breakfast.
By USinUK
May 28, 2008 9:07 AM | Link to this
Truth -
I’m talking about Shaunti’s rant from a month or so ago about pictures in the mall that were of young adults that happened to be scantily clad. And her column from a couple of months before that where she was clutching her pearls over low-rider jeans and girls’ bra straps.
I was not defending A&F’s hiring practices or their products, so don’t extend my criticism of Shaunti’s prudishness to a blanket approval of everything A&F.
By USinUK
May 28, 2008 9:15 AM | Link to this
Truth -
Hampton Inn. Clean rooms. Free Y-Fi. Nice, free little breakfast.
fortunately, neither I nor the hubster have to travel for work much anymore (thank GOD!), but I always liked Hilton hotels, personally (business frequent fliers got the free breakkie, too). As for free wifi, I prefer working in a cafe than being holed up in a hotel - but that’s just me.
By Trunk Monkey
May 28, 2008 9:45 AM | Link to this
just a comment in regard to the recurring discussion on A&F advertising - anybody remember back in the day when everybody was all shocked by the Benneton ads? Back then, they made headlines for using ad images that included a dying AIDS patient, a nun and priest kissing and a black woman nursing a white baby. These days they make the papers with young models in various stages of dress.
The moral of the story is that fashion comes and fashion goes, as does its advertising. How many people wear Benneton these days? How many do you suppose will be wearing A&F twenty years from now? After all, it’s not like they’re one of the top-of-the-line fashion houses…they’re midrange retailers.
By lovelyliz
May 28, 2008 9:46 AM | Link to this
And like clockwork, those who support individual freedom & personal responsibility, keeping the government off our back, and of course SUPPORT THE TROOPS try to remove all the porn even Playboy from the PX system.
By cherokee
May 28, 2008 10:08 AM | Link to this
I like some porn. I am an adult, a 40 year old female. My work involves travel. I pay my taxes. Who are these people who want to keep me from watching whatever I want to watch in my hotel room? Please get a life or use your time to feed hungry children. Get over yourself. Stop trying to control other people.
By Truth
May 28, 2008 10:21 AM | Link to this
USinUK
I’m talking about Shaunti’s rant from a month or so ago about pictures in the mall that were of young adults that happened to be scantily clad.
With A&F, there is no one that “happens” to be naked. Those ads are a result of marketing studies that say that teens are extremely attracted to anything sexual. The “young adults” in their ads are also naked in the children’s section.
They are slime. They are scum and they exploit, not only the children that they photograph, but the children that buy their over priced, low quality products that are made in the same factories in China as anything you buy in Walmart.
On that issue, Shanti is dead-on correct.
Low rider jeans and bra straps? There are always the girls that dress slutty. There are also the girls that get pregnant and the parents can’t figure out why that happened.
The way anyone presents themselves is how others perceive them. The girls that gave us visual thrills in high school were mostly pretty unhappy at the reunions. The ones that wanted to be perceived as talented or smart seem to have accomplished much more in life.
That is not always the case, but unfortunately that was the norm.
By Truth
May 28, 2008 10:29 AM | Link to this
Trunk Monkey
The difference was that Bennington used adults in their ads. A&F use children. That’s exploitation of the worst kind.
Also the fact that ALL of their models are straight out of the Master Race plan is disturbing. There are people other than skinny kids with extremely pale skin, blond hair and blue eyes that exist in this country.
Again, check out the CBS 60 Minutes story about them.
The fashion industry relies on arrogance and A&F is the worst.
By Truth
May 28, 2008 10:38 AM | Link to this
Cherokee
I’m a film-maker but has avoided several offers to shoot porn. The reason is the porn industry is very connected with organized crime and much of modern porn exploits women and children.
Personally, few things are as much fun as new porn, but I would rather cuddle up with my sweety and watch a good movie with a good story. We usually do just fine without that inspiration.
The people who fight porn are usually religous organizations that also feed many, many children.
Watch all you want, but understand that the industry that makes billions off porn is one of the slimiest in the world.
By USinUK
May 28, 2008 10:39 AM | Link to this
Truth -
ohfercryingoutloud … are we going to start this again where I say something and you mischaracterize what I said then we spend the next few days going back and forth.
I really couldn’t care less about A&F. I’m not their demographic, I don’t shop there and I don’t buy my niece/nephews anything from there. If my niec and nephews decide to do shop there that’s their business. Just as it is your business to vote with your dollars and spend your money elsewhere.
What I DO care about is someone else imposing their morals - especially in regards to legal activities such as porn - on the general public who may not share their view. Don’t like porn? Don’t buy it. Don’t stay in that hotel. It’s how the free market system works.
As for the boys with the lowriders (and, my, how I love that you ignored THAT part of Shaunti’s rant) and the girls who have bra straps showing, there’s a WORLD OF DIFFERENCE between that and being exposed/indecent/nekkid.
And, besides, since when is having a bra strap showing the same as sluttiness?
Criminey, Truth, get of your frickin high horse - I would think someone with YOUR history (or am I confusing you with someone else who admitted to being unfaithful in earlier relationships???) would be the LAST person hurling morality stones.
By Jack
May 28, 2008 10:45 AM | Link to this
Porn should be outlawed, abortion should be illegal, alcohol and recreational drugs should carry the death penalty, and fornication should be for pro-creation only. wink wink
By JokesOn
May 28, 2008 10:49 AM | Link to this
A&F use children. That’s exploitation of the worst kind.
I would hold the parents up to the standard you are applying to the company.
The reason is the porn industry is very connected with organized crime and much of modern porn exploits women and children.
BS on the children aspect and 75% BS on the women as well. No one seems to mind that women get paid tons more than the guys, yet that is not exploitation….hmmm.
The people who fight porn are usually religous organizations that also feed many, many children.
Pointless as hell statement. You trying to equate the two? Justify one with the other? Or is it simply a pointless as hell statement?
By Truth
May 28, 2008 11:14 AM | Link to this
USinUK
You haven’t been reading very well. I have never said that I was unfaithful to a partner. I have been with women who were unfaithful to THEIR partners. I didn’t make any promises to those women’s partners. They did.
I always just though an exposed bra strap was like dragging toilet paper from a restroom on your shoe: a mistake. Low rider jeans that expose lots is a different story.
I think it is absolutely my business when a company exploits children. Does that make my opinions based on Morals? How do you feel about slavery? Those damned morals again? (Just an example, don’t lose your sh*t here)
You HAVE to learn the difference between judgmental jerks that want to impose morality and people who try to fight true injustice. Watch all the porn you want, but don’t preach at me about Walmart while you have nothing to say about the porn industry which exploits women and children or a retail chain that practices open racism and also exploits children.
I had a big box or porn, which I gave away a few years ago. I still enjoy what I dig up on the internet, but I won’t pay a dime for any of it. That supports the industry and I simply can’t do that. If that puts me on a high horse in your view, your standards for “high horsyness” is pretty low.
By Mara
May 28, 2008 11:27 AM | Link to this
(oops. “Trunk Monkey” is my handle on another thread…sorry.)
See, Truth, I just don’t agree with you. I don’t see how you manage to label these child models as “exploited”, unless, of course, you think that modeling as a whole is inherently “exploitive”. In fact, I don’t know where you saw those pictures of “naked children”. I looked and I haven’t found more than one or two A&F ads where the model is nekkid and their “naughty bits” showing. Of course those “bits” tend to fall on the female mammary side, but still. These are pictures of adults in their twenties. Professional models. Where’d you find “exploitation” in that?
By Truth
May 28, 2008 11:30 AM | Link to this
JokesOn
I would hold the parents up to the standard you are applying to the company.
If I have a talent call for a shoot and I put out a call for children, I am always amazed at what pictures I get from stage parents. So at that level, we agree, but the company exposes these children to millions. So no, they don’t get off the hook because the kids have bad parents.
BS on the children aspect and 75% BS on the women as well. No one seems to mind that women get paid tons more than the guys, yet that is not exploitation….hmmm.
Because people are well paid does not mean that they are not exploited. In fact, that is usually what the exploitation is all about.
Pointless as hell statement. You trying to equate the two? Justify one with the other? Or is it simply a pointless as hell statement?
You did it again, Pal. You need to trace the posts back to the person being addressed.
Cherokee wrote:
I like some porn. I am an adult, a 40 year old female. My work involves travel. I pay my taxes. Who are these people who want to keep me from watching whatever I want to watch in my hotel room? Please get a life or use your time to feed hungry children. Get over yourself. Stop trying to control other people.
SHE made the equation between the two. I was responding to her post that seemed to say that people who fight porn do not feed children.
By Mara
May 28, 2008 11:31 AM | Link to this
Jack - LOL! Don’t forget outlawing “adult toys” and those “chat lines”, too.
:^)
By USinUK
May 28, 2008 11:34 AM | Link to this
Truth -
Then I apologize - I thought you were one of the posters who admitted to being unfaithful in the past.
As for imposing morals - again, I’m talking about Shaunti’s desire to eradicate porn from all hotels.
Does the porn industry disgust me? yes, it does - like I said earlier, it’s not my thing and doesn’t do anything for me. So, you know what I do ??? I DON’T SUPPORT IT. I don’t buy it in hotels. I don’t click on the spam links. I don’t buy the mags. And, if I felt as strongly as Shaunti does that she REALLY doesn’t want to support it, I’d go out of my way to stay in hotels that don’t offer it.
However, I won’t go on a crusade to remove it from all magazine racks, hotel rooms and cable stations. You know why? because it’s legal, whether you like it or not.
I always just though an exposed bra strap was like dragging toilet paper from a restroom on your shoe: a mistake.
oh, so now an exposed bra strap is a “mistake” … and not sluttiness and the reason that these girls are out getting pregnant and being generally miserable at their 20th reunion. (There are always the girls that dress slutty. There are also the girls that get pregnant and the parents can’t figure out why that happened.) Thanks for clarifying.
I still enjoy what I dig up on the internet, but I won’t pay a dime for any of it. That supports the industry and I simply can’t do that.
OMFG. what the he!! do you think your click is doing, Truth??? Do you think they put it out there for free out of the kindness of their hearts??? they get PAID everytime you click on a “free” site. good gravy. you’re so concerned about their exploitation of wimmen and children THEN DON’T LOOK AT IT!!!
By JokesOn
May 28, 2008 11:41 AM | Link to this
See, Truth, I just don’t agree with you. I don’t see how you manage to label these child models as “exploited”, unless, of course, you think that modeling as a whole is inherently “exploitive”. In fact, I don’t know where you saw those pictures of “naked children”. I looked and I haven’t found more than one or two A&F ads where the model is nekkid and their “naughty bits” showing. Of course those “bits” tend to fall on the female mammary side, but still. These are pictures of adults in their twenties. Professional models. Where’d you find “exploitation” in that?
Even IF truth was not fabricating/embellishing this stuff, it is perfectly legal to take non-porn shots of underage kids in the buff with parental consent. It may be distasteful, and it is not A&F exploiting them; it would be the parents.
Personally I think the child beauty pageants do more harm, but what would you recommend? We remove those rights from parents?
As for the porn industry exploiting children and women, pure bs. It makes me wonder how accurate your name “truth” applies since you attached your professional perspective to such an off base statement.
By Truth
May 28, 2008 11:46 AM | Link to this
Jack
Porn should be outlawed,
No. But there should be more representation for the actors and many of the large houses should be looked at very closely for tax evasion and criminal activities.
abortion should be illegal,
There should be a higher standard for the procedure and there should be attempts at educating people as to the emotional aspects. it is not just about one person.
alcohol and recreational drugs should carry the death penalty,
Unfortunately, many already do. Do I need to post statistics about meth, coke, crack, and alcohol, not to mention prescription drugs? Yes, it is a societal problem that many people think that unless they are hammered, they can’t have fun. Yes I drink and I grew up in the 60s so there is little I haven’t done.
But I have found that being in control is also fun, and sometimes a huge advantage. But apparently not wanting people to die of DUI and not wanting to be around people who are “throwing-up” drunk makes me a moralist, setting on my high horse.
By JokesOn
May 28, 2008 11:53 AM | Link to this
So no, they don’t get off the hook because the kids have bad parents.
You did it again. Where did I say “off the hook?” The parents are the only ones that can sign a paper allowing this to happen. So, yes they are more culpable.
Because people are well paid does not mean that they are not exploited. In fact, that is usually what the exploitation is all about.
High demand and low supply is also what THAT is about; and it makes much more sense.
SHE made the equation between the two. I was responding to her post that seemed to say that people who fight porn do not feed children.
No, she said: Please get a life or use your time to feed hungry children.
And you put the two together as if they rely on each other. She was simply saying you should get out of one area of topic and into another. To draw the conclusion that her post seemed to say that people who fight porn do not feed children is absurd. A lot of inference without a single bit to back it up.
OMFG. what the he!! do you think your click is doing, Truth??? Do you think they put it out there for free out of the kindness of their hearts??? they get PAID everytime you click on a “free” site. good gravy. you’re so concerned about their exploitation of wimmen and children THEN DON’T LOOK AT IT!!!
You are supporting an UNREGULATED porn circuit, man. That is the group you should be watching out for! If you want to change an industry, purchase from valid sources like vivid entertainment (ran by a female no less) or one of the many others that are as well and meet your standards.
By Truth
May 28, 2008 11:57 AM | Link to this
UsinUK
I agree with most of what you said, but no. Clicking on a porn site does not result in anyone being paid. Who would be paying them? Certainly not me.
But don’t get me wrong. I rarely go a-huntin’. Like i said, the real thing is much more fun.
I honestly never saw an exposed bra strap as slutty, just dumb. Does she not understand that a thin strap will not cover a very unattractive part of her underwear?
By Truth
May 28, 2008 12:03 PM | Link to this
JokesON
Even IF truth was not fabricating/embellishing this stuff, it is perfectly legal to take non-porn shots of underage kids in the buff with parental consent. It may be distasteful, and it is not A&F exploiting them; it would be the parents.
This is why we can’t discuss anything. You INSTANTLY dropped to the level of calling me a liar. I would ask you what I have lied about, but I really don’t give a damn what you think. You need to get your hysterical little emotions under control pal.
Everyone have a great day.
I’m OUTTA here.
By Mara
May 28, 2008 12:39 PM | Link to this
“Clicking on a porn site does not result in anyone being paid. Who would be paying them? Certainly not me.”
too bad, but you are paying them. It’s called “display advertising”. Web sites make money just putting the advertisers name passively in front of your eyes. One way to do this is “PPI” (pay per impression), which pays the “publisher” of the site a set amount per “X” number of page views…the viewer need not even click on an ad.
By Truth
May 28, 2008 1:02 PM | Link to this
Mara
That’s normally the case, but I have never seen a porn sight with advertisers.
Out the door. See you guys.
By JokesOn
May 28, 2008 1:14 PM | Link to this
This is why we can’t discuss anything. You INSTANTLY dropped to the level of calling me a liar. I would ask you what I have lied about, but I really don’t give a damn what you think. You need to get your hysterical little emotions under control pal.
Saying the porn industry exploits children is total bs. You can call it what you want, but it is still a lie.
Every click you apply throws the site you are at a % of a penny.
That’s normally the case, but I have never seen a porn sight with advertisers.
Mara knows this and has seen them, yet probably does not browse much porn. You on the other hand stated that you do occasionally and that you never have seen ads?
Sorry buddy, but you are either being obtuse or lying. I understand no one likes to be called out as such, but then you should not put such bs out there then. It is in your hands not to state such absurd things.
By Jeff
May 28, 2008 1:24 PM | Link to this
Now you ladies, excuse me, women (there is a difference you know) know what it feels like to lose control of your sex life. You are so used to controlling the sex life in the relationship that you have failed to take care of the man in your life in a way that is very important to him. We finally have an alternative to hookers and affairs. Step up to the plate in the bedroom and the internet porn will go away.
By Mara
May 28, 2008 1:36 PM | Link to this
That’s normally the case, but I have never seen a porn sight with advertisers
well there’re literally millions of porn viewers who’d absolutely LOVE to know how you managed that! Even landing on the site by accident triggers a cascade of pop-ups!
By Jack
May 28, 2008 2:01 PM | Link to this
Madamn Palm and her 5 daughters have been around for a long time, adding porn does not make a very good alterntative. Spend more time on her needs and you may like the result.
By JokesOn
May 28, 2008 2:05 PM | Link to this
Step up to the plate in the bedroom and the internet porn will go away.
Have not read any posts by the women here really railing against internet porn or otherwise.
Step up to the plate in the bedroom and the internet porn will go away.
Most of the relationships I have seen where sex is an issue has roots in the healthiness of the platonic part of the relationship.
I think you are barking up the wrong tree. What you expressed does occur (for both genders), but is the minority.
I, for one, have seen and been in the situation where the female is not really into experimenting until their 30s, and by that time the guy has given up and no longer sees her as a sexual outlet. So, my advise to the guys is date a mature/older woman if pushing the envelope is THAT important to you, or be patient.
By Truth
May 28, 2008 2:06 PM | Link to this
Mara
Like I said, I rarely go to the sites and maybe I just have a great popup protector, but I just haven’t seen them. I’m certainly not an expert. I just don’t go there enough.
I just have a good imagination and it is always playing just what I like.
By Truth
May 28, 2008 2:15 PM | Link to this
Saying the porn industry exploits children is total bs. You can call it what you want, but it is still a lie.
Couple of points:
JokesON. I’m not sure how you did it, but you have managed to throw the creepyness meter further into the red than I have ever seen.
But the fact that I have been gone for over an hour and not a single person said a word to jokesOn about making this statement should have staggered me. But since that would mean taking the side of a conservative against a liberal, I certainly see why liberals would not dare defend the stance that children are exploited every day by the porn industry. After all, what are children really worth when it comes to standing firm against all evil Republicans?
By JokesOn
May 28, 2008 2:24 PM | Link to this
Like I said, I rarely go to the sites and maybe I just have a great popup protector, but I just haven’t seen them. I’m certainly not an expert. I just don’t go there enough.
If you are going to sites that have links (thumbnails or text) that take you to a gallery, that gallery’s owner pays for every “click-thru.” Pop-ups are blocked by most browsers now and is not where most sites get their $.
By Mara
May 28, 2008 2:33 PM | Link to this
But the fact that I have been gone for over an hour and not a single person said a word to jokesOn about making this statement should have staggered me
have you ever considered that we didn’t say anything because we actually agree with Jokes? Maybe, just maybe, it has nothing to do with you being a Republican?
Of course, one assumes that we’re talking about legal, adult pornography and not kiddie porn (which 99.99% of people consider beyond the pale).
By JokesOn
May 28, 2008 2:35 PM | Link to this
JokesON. I’m not sure how you did it, but you have managed to throw the creepyness meter further into the red than I have ever seen.
You must have read into posts again if you think I am condoning something creepy. Usual behavior.
But the fact that I have been gone for over an hour and not a single person said a word to jokesOn about making this statement should have staggered me.
Now you are simply not making sense.
I certainly see why liberals would not dare defend the stance that children are exploited every day by the porn industry.
Key word man: Industry
You are not talking about sick mom-pop basements, but the industry which is regulated.
You are really acting off your rocker today with the inferences. Is that the only way you know how to discuss?
By SidelineSniper
May 28, 2008 2:40 PM | Link to this
Children are exploited daily in the third world making products for american consumers. So now we should all walk around naked and barefooted?
By Mara
May 28, 2008 2:47 PM | Link to this
Jack - Madamn Palm and her 5 daughters…
HA! good one! I was going to point out to the wanker that he actually had two alternatives to prostitutes and mistresses…one on the left and one on the right! LOL!!
Spend more time on her needs and you may like the result
A more insightful peice of advice has ne’er been spoken. You go, Jack!
By JokesOn
May 28, 2008 2:59 PM | Link to this
Or are you saying you did not write this:
This is why we can’t discuss anything. You INSTANTLY dropped to the level of calling me a liar. I would ask you what I have lied about, but I really don’t give a damn what you think. You need to get your hysterical little emotions under control pal.
By JokesOn
May 28, 2008 3:11 PM | Link to this
Spend more time on her needs and you may like the result
Funny, since that is exactly what Jeff said but inverse; which is where the tug-of-war starts. “You first! No, you first!”
Picking sides in furthers the battle. Couples should be encouraged to be on the same side.
By Mara
May 28, 2008 3:26 PM | Link to this
JokesOn - you and I must have read two different posts! What I read was more a screed blaming porn usage on frigid women not servicing the man often enough.
By JokesOn
May 28, 2008 3:47 PM | Link to this
Mara, JokesOn - you and I must have read two different posts! What I read was more a screed blaming porn usage on frigid women not servicing the man often enough.
Step up to the plate in the bedroom and the internet porn will go away.
You are so used to controlling the sex life in the relationship that you have failed to take care of the man in your life in a way that is very important to him.
Those sound very similar to: Spend more time on her needs and you may like the result
I addressed the negative side of his post as well.
By Jeff
May 28, 2008 4:36 PM | Link to this
We men don’t have any issues “spending time on her needs” but the problem is that you women can’t make up your mind about what your needs actually are. If you don’t know what makes yourself happy, don’t expect your mate to know. Make your own decisions and value yourself on what you want, NOT what Oprah, Dr Phil, Lifetime, WE, etc tells you.
By Jeff
May 28, 2008 4:58 PM | Link to this
As much as I hate to bring this up, it is relevant from a man’s perspective.
I’m 38, have an MBA and am a single white father. You ladies, sorry, women, want to wear low-rider jeans, get boob jobs and wear thongs yet you somehow expect us to treat you like a goddess and a lady at the same time. Get over yourself. As my best friend says “if you think it’s that good, go home and lick it yourself”.
Do you not see the problem? How can you expect to attract a man that treats you like your father treats your mother when you act like a w******* looking for the best hook-up? Make a decisions about what you want in life and start acting like it. Don’t get me wrong, I have issues with the church crowd that I will not compromise, but if you want him to be committed to you, you have to be committed to him.
When you are a good woman/lady, good men will find you in a heartbeat. The reverse is true; when you are a good man, you will find a good woman and you will know it in an instant.
By JokesOn
May 28, 2008 5:02 PM | Link to this
We men don’t have any issues “spending time on her needs” but the problem is that you women can’t make up your mind about what your needs actually are. If you don’t know what makes yourself happy, don’t expect your mate to know. Make your own decisions and value yourself on what you want, NOT what Oprah, Dr Phil, Lifetime, WE, etc tells you.
Been there. It is simply up to you to find someone that digs the same things as you and has the capabilities you are asking for and do not settle for less. The same goes for the women. But…you have to talk about it, and watch the generalizations - they will get you nowhere.
There are a lot of guys out there too that have no motivation to please their partner. Let those two groups hook up and move past it.
By USinUK
May 29, 2008 8:16 AM | Link to this
I agree with most of what you said, but no. Clicking on a porn site does not result in anyone being paid. Who would be paying them? Certainly not me.
too bad, but you are paying them. It’s called “display advertising”. Web sites make money just putting the advertisers name passively in front of your eyes. One way to do this is “PPI” (pay per impression), which pays the “publisher” of the site a set amount per “X” number of page views…the viewer need not even click on an ad.
thanks to Mara and Jokes for explaining to Truth how Internet Content Revenue streams work (darn this 5 hour time difference!)
But the fact that I have been gone for over an hour and not a single person said a word to jokesOn about making this statement should have staggered me. But since that would mean taking the side of a conservative against a liberal, I certainly see why liberals would not dare defend the stance that children are exploited every day by the porn industry. After all, what are children really worth when it comes to standing firm against all evil Republicans?
ohfercryingoutloud … talk about bloody-minded (one of my favorite British-isms for stubborn). NO ONE here is defending kiddie porn, you ninnie. Scroll through the comments, we have ALL been discussing LEGAL porn - no children, no pets. criminey, Truth, take off your “poor martyred republicans” hair shirt and argue the discussion on its merits without “waaaahhhhh … you’re all defending kiddie porn because a Dem doesn’t agwee with me … waaaaahhhhh” … that kind of tactic does you a disservice.
By JokesOn
May 29, 2008 8:36 AM | Link to this
Thanks USinUK.
I was (briefly) concerned that in my usual rushed posting that I somehow inadvertently wrote something that sounded sick.
After re-reading my posts I saw that it was just “truth” misrepresenting positions again.
Don’t you love how you/I and even Dog can apologize for errs we made, and chuck and truth just ignore them as if they did not happen and continue their err?
I have yet to see either of them admit an err. If they did, I would have so much more respect for what they have to say and their perspective. But that type of behavior proves that “winning” is their sole objective; not (ironically) discovering truth.
By Tony
May 29, 2008 9:49 AM | Link to this
You’ve GOT to be kidding me. Shaunti sounds like a typical right-wing religious fanatic trying to control everyone else’s behavior. Isn’t that what the Taliban is all about? Next thing you know, she’ll be recommending we have religious police to patrol against those who don’t tow the line.
By Archie
May 29, 2008 9:52 AM | Link to this
Do you not see the problem? How can you expect to attract a man that treats you like your father treats your mother when you act like a w* looking for the best hook-up?
I like this statement. Get over yourself. As my best friend says “if you think it’s that good, go home and lick it yourself”. I like this statement too. I have heard women complain here at work as if they have no faults worth mentioning and yet I can see them as a coworker so I know what the husband or boyfriend is dealing with.
By USinUK
May 29, 2008 10:18 AM | Link to this
Archie - I expected better from you.
ANYone who would say “if you think it’s that good, go home and lick it yourself” shows themselves to be nothing more than a cro-magnon cretin. Talk about putting the “a$$” in class.
Jeff - you know, there are P-LENTY of caves up near Dahlonega. I’m sure you’d feel right at home there.
By Gale
May 29, 2008 10:24 AM | Link to this
This was such a lame topic. Was it because they were tired of the politics? Only a religious conservative would find fault with adult porn being available in a hotel; and soft porn at that. We assume the hotel IDs guests and knows who is and isn’t of age. We also assume the hotel is not illegally providing child porn. There should be NO reason to restrict any legal entertainment from any adult. I don’t care why someone would want to watch. That would be their business, not mine. Why would I make any assumption about a person’s home life from what s/he watches in a hotel room. Maybe there are kids at home and this is the safest opportunity? Who cares?
By JokesOn
May 29, 2008 11:08 AM | Link to this
Talk about putting the “a$$” in class.
How about “putting the a$$ in Crass?
By USinUK
May 29, 2008 11:15 AM | Link to this
Jokes -
seriously. gah. and he says he’s single. color me shocked.
By Glad we got that straight
May 29, 2008 11:21 AM | Link to this
Okay, so if I value my stuff and have some standards, I’m stuck up and need to get over myself. If I give it away graciously, I’m a sl-ut who deserves no respect. Got it. Thanks guys!
By JokesOn
May 29, 2008 11:29 AM | Link to this
seriously. gah. and he says he’s single. color me shocked.
Given the truth in the statement: When you are a good woman/lady, good men will find you in a heartbeat. The reverse is true; when you are a good man, you will find a good woman and you will know it in an instant.
The same tends to be for the screwy people in the world.
Which begs the question: If he is so pi$$ed at women for being screwy and they are the type he has been interacting with, what is his screwiness?
First red flag to look for in a person: Trail of screwy people that they dated.
By USinUK
May 29, 2008 11:30 AM | Link to this
Glad -
and, if you are modest and cover up, you are a dyk3 who hates men or, if you do like men, you are obviously frigid.
(and, don’t forget, never complain about your husband in any way shape or form, because it means that you think you’re without faults)
By LaughoftheWeek
May 29, 2008 11:37 AM | Link to this
and he says he’s single. color me shocked.
By USinUK
May 29, 2008 11:39 AM | Link to this
Jokes -
First red flag to look for in a person: Trail of screwy people that they dated.
soooooooo true! if you find that you’re a freak magnet, maybe you should look in the mirror.
more to the point, if you use phrases like the one mentioned above or sling crap around like You ladies, sorry, women, want to wear low-rider jeans, get boob jobs and wear thongs yet you somehow expect us to treat you like a goddess and a lady at the same time then, expect to be avoided by the “nice women”, too … know why??? because if all you’re looking at is the surface to determine who is nice and who isn’t, you’re not a particularly nice man.
By JokesOn
May 29, 2008 12:04 PM | Link to this
Okay, so if I value my stuff and have some standards, I’m stuck up and need to get over myself. If I give it away graciously, I’m a sl-ut who deserves no respect. Got it. Thanks guys!
OK. Lets not get into a slamfest. I agree about the crassness of much of this, yet will say that this stuff does come into play. How you apply it though is called tact.
For example, I personally would not date someone with a boob job (minus cancer or such as a reason) because it tells me that they objectify themselves more than I am comfortable with.
It is when you take these cues to the extreme that they lose/change their purpose and meaning.
By Gandalf, the Grey
May 29, 2008 12:11 PM | Link to this
EXPAT: that is a great post! Glad you are finally coming around…Oh, if it’s taht good, and if she can lick it herself…I want to watch!
By Archie
May 29, 2008 12:54 PM | Link to this
Get over yourself. As my best friend says “if you think it’s that good, go home and lick it yourself”. UsinUk, I am sorry you think Jeff’s statement is crass but he probably is reacting to some actions taken. You get to evaluate his statement but not the behavior that is on his mind. One of my coworkers complained about her husband but just witnessing her behavior here my goodness, I think the man deserves a trophy. This coworker has rubbed both men and women here the wrong way. This coworker complained about how unfair it was to send an email to her supervisor when she got to work, well now that she is a supervisor she requires this young lady to do the same thing. She does not have to do this. This lady says her husband snores but that she gets bad gas, well do you think her husband might have a problem with that??? Hell, there’s one lady here that another female coworker calls “bipolar” because the behavior flips from day to day. USinUk you can’t read Jeff’s posts and think he means all women but understand he is reacting to something. I don’t know Jeff but sometimes crass,blunt talk gets your attention.
By lyrazel
May 29, 2008 1:07 PM | Link to this
women want to wear low-rider jeans, get boob jobs and wear thongs yet you somehow expect us to treat you like a goddess and a lady at the same time
We are seeing men involved in routine plastic surgery as well including: penile extension, breast reduction, liposuction, facial plastic surgery! What does it mean to act like a man while in the beauty salon getting highlights or aisles of the supermarket buying hair gel or back hair shavers for unappreciated tufts? And men SPEND A LOT OF $$$$$$$$ if they think their blessing to women is inadequate—from licking poisonous frogs just to spanish fly, to enzite to (name the concoction here) to prove they are studly. New trends of viagra huffing are on the rise— making it rather obvious men do want to see their women looking sexy—as long as they are with him—if with some other dude—she is a slut.
Archie, this lady is telling you too much information!! Best to give lady a gift of Gas-X for christmas—-thus, you won’t be bothered more.
By Archie
May 29, 2008 2:08 PM | Link to this
lyrazel,are you the Lyrazel? Anyway perhaps this lady has told me too much. This same lady sent me a dirty joke then turned around and acted so offended when I sent a dirty joke to her. Sometimes you have to know what a person is reacting to and not just take their blog posts as everything they’re about. The guy from yesterday named Jeff has probably been to a bar and experienced some bad behavior. If you catch him at another time he probably won’t be that crass. Everytime I think about certain female coworkers I empathize with their husbands or boyfriends just because of the behavior I witness,ie. crass comments,selfishness, and cussing like no tommorrow.
By lyrazel
May 29, 2008 3:22 PM | Link to this
Archie, I am lazy today… its easy to forget friendly is a false front we all wear at work. We put on our best stewardess smile and gather about to chat about nothing important and when someone actually starts talking about factual living situations it is too much information. Of course you emphasize with their husbands—work is: being paid to be with people you would avoid at church—so after 7 years of listening to her spiel—yeah, I too pitied many unseen spouses.
Jeff had an opinion but… w******* have johns’ ya know what I’m sayin? Easy to blame the cartel but what about the junkie…
JokesOn: would you date someone who had a boob reduction? Or is that also the same catering to vanity aspect—or what if you met someone and never knew she had it done until feeling her up—is that like gum under the sheets?
By JokesOn
May 29, 2008 4:25 PM | Link to this
JokesOn: would you date someone who had a boob reduction? Or is that also the same catering to vanity aspect—or what if you met someone and never knew she had it done until feeling her up—is that like gum under the sheets?
Remember, these are my opinions and preferences…
I covered the “functionality” aspect of a boob job and that would fall under the same umbrella. It can be quite bad on your back to have overly large breast.
If it was just to make them perky and there was no real issue to begin with, it would fall under the umbrella of vanity; and would be seen as a red flag.
As for not knowing until “in the sheets,” that would not happen. Boob jobs are quite obvious if you know what a boob is supposed to look like.
I tend to like women with a little granola in them which (generally) means very little make-up, non-materialistic, and no (non-critical) plastic surgery.
(never heard the term “gum under sheets” and am guessing you mean nasty)
By Facts
May 29, 2008 4:30 PM | Link to this
Many breast reductions are done for the health of the woman, meaning the naturals are too heavy for the back strength, of especially petite, but large-chested, women.