Woman to Woman

By USinUK

May 19, 2008 8:18 AM | Link to this

Peggy Noonan’s got game??? Peggy “Our Lady of the Dolphins” Noonan???

Criminey, that woman has a lot of things - including voices in her head - but GAME, she ain’t got. “Makes us turn off the television set in case the children walk by” … what does that mean, anyway?? and what on earth did it have to do with Obama’s so-called diminishing support with ANY kind of American??

Please, Andy - Peggy Noonan’s penned a couple of good speeches for Reagan, but her train has long since sailed. (with apologies to Austin Powers)

By Copyleft

May 19, 2008 8:29 AM | Link to this

It’s good to see Shaunti proudly bearing the old Phylis Schlafly banner: “Women should just sit down and shut up.”

I thought only Michelle Malkin had remembered the vital point that women are too silly and flighty to participate in politics! Darn that ol’ 19th Amendment….

By USinUK

May 19, 2008 8:57 AM | Link to this

Copy -

I thought only Michelle Malkin had remembered the vital point that women are too silly and flighty to participate in politics! Darn that ol’ 19th Amendment….

You forgot - Little Annie Coulter said that women shouldn’t be allowed the vote, either (although that was for purely partisan reasons) It would be a much better country if women did not vote. That is simply a fact. In fact, in every presidential election since 1950 - except Goldwater in ‘64 - the Republican would have won, if only the men had voted.

By Truth

May 19, 2008 9:46 AM | Link to this

Just the question is silly. Think about it. Should an important woman say anything bad about any actions taken by other women? Why on earth wouldn’t they?

But it is good that the AJC has changed the posting procedure. Maybe this will hold down the spam.

Hey USinUK. Hope you had a good weekend. I am still working like crazy. Will turn in three projects this week, but start on a giant project next week. I will be building a small Tennessee town in 3-D as it looked in 1800. Should be fun.

My England job looks like it will happen, but they are trying to decide when. It will be mostly about haunted Bath. I have been reading about it. Seems the town was built by the Romans, but it was built over an ancient holy site. I have been reading about lei lines and hundreds intersect at Bath. (And stone henge, The Great Pyramids, etc.)

By Mara

May 19, 2008 9:49 AM | Link to this

One has to wonder if Shaunti actually read Charlotte Allen’s article. If she thinks that article was “tongue-in-cheek” I’d really hate to see what she would consider offensive over-generalization. It wasn’t just the “femi-nazi’s” hyperventilating at a woman criticizing women, it was a near universal gasp of outrage from BOTH genders (and all political ideologies) at the transparently false, deliberately offensive assertions Ms. Allen made.

What Shaunti can’t seem to understand is that criticism of ideas or persons shouldn’t be dependant (nor focused) on their gender. Are “women” dim because they’re women, as Allen suggested? Shaunti evidently thinks so, nor does she mind Allen calling her stupid simply because she doesn’t have “a pair”. Perhaps she even believes it herself…

By USinUK

May 19, 2008 10:10 AM | Link to this

Truth -

My England job looks like it will happen, but they are trying to decide when. It will be mostly about haunted Bath. I have been reading about it. Seems the town was built by the Romans, but it was built over an ancient holy site. I have been reading about lei lines and hundreds intersect at Bath. (And stone henge, The Great Pyramids, etc.)

I keep tellin’ ya - you gotta read “Sarum” before you come here for the gig! it’s a great read and talks all about the area (granted, fictionalized, but still gives you a good idea). Yep, the area was settled in 92AD by the Romans who like a good hot spring! Wait until you see the Roman baths, hypocaust systems, etc. MUY coolio!

And, yes, do see Stonehenge and Salisbury cathedral while you’re in the area.

(sigh) yep, I do love my adopted country almost as much as I love the land of my birth :-)

By USinUK

May 19, 2008 10:18 AM | Link to this

Mara -

Shaunti said: Or why is there such anger toward any woman bringing up the scientifically accurate statement that there are certain things men’s brains are more wired for than women’s brains? The reverse is also true, but no woman gets hammered for bringing those up — which, by the way, Allen did.

the sum total of Charlotte Allen’s “criticism” of men: We exaggerate, of course. And obviously men do dumb things, too, although my husband has perfectly good explanations for why he eats standing up at the stove (when I’m not around) or pulls down all the blinds so the house looks like a cave (also when I’m not around): It has to do with the aggressive male nature and an instinctive fear of danger from other aggressive men. When men do dumb things, though, they tend to be catastrophically dumb, such as blowing the paycheck on booze or much, much worse (think “postal”). Women’s foolishness is usually harmless. But it can be so … embarrassing.

so, in total - ONE paragraph out of 16 criticizing men … the remainder of them tarring all women with the bad driver/chick lit/Grey’s Anatomy/Oprah brush.

And I still can’t get over the fact that the WaPo wanted to cast this - I predict that over the long run, however, even with all the special mentoring and role-modeling the 21st century can provide, the number of women in these fields will always lag behind the number of men, for good reason. - as “satire.”

jeeeeeeeeeeeebus. I guess we all better sell our “power suits and heels” and get our behinds back in the kitchen where we, evidently, belong.

By Mara

May 19, 2008 11:05 AM | Link to this

Truth - “Just the question is silly. Think about it. Should an important woman say anything bad about any actions taken by other women? Why on earth wouldn’t they?”

I feel so odd agreeing with you, but when you’re right, you’re right! The question is silly.

USinUK - what makes the whole Charlotte Allen issue infuriating to me is that she defines what “women” are in such a narrow, one-dimensional way. For example, I’ve never watched Grey’s Anatomy, I’ve never had a car accident, serious or otherwise, I’m fascinated with science, and I scored in the 95th percentile on the Mechanical Comprehension section of the ASVABs. On the other hand, I have fainted (once from heat and once from sheer exhaustion), I have read a few “bodice-rippers” though they’re not my usual fare. Also, I have screamed in excitement when my favorite band came on stage (just like the guy next to me did) and I do have a preference for chocolate.

In Ms. Allen’s little world, I’m not a “normal” woman, I’m an “outlier”. As you probably are, since you can add 2+2 without getting confused.

By Margo Hebald

May 19, 2008 11:21 AM | Link to this

Both men and women should be able to comment on either gender, including their own.

However, when certain female writers do comment on other other women, they do it in a childish, “Queen Bee” fashion: underhandedly, typically “catty”, and in as shocking a manner as possible, so as to call attention to themselves. The comments themselves are usually not valid, but just becomes a game of “I can say nastier things than you can, look at me!”

By chuck

May 19, 2008 11:24 AM | Link to this

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/02/29/AR2008022902992_pf.html

This is the link to the article. I doubt too, that this was intended as satire Mara.

That said, you have to wonder what women in general think about the examples cited by Allen. My question to the women on the blog is this: Do you expect people to take the political aspirations of women seriously if they cry about how those mean old men treat them in the campaign? Don’t you wonder how Barack HUSSEIN Obama is so handily defeating Hilary Rodham Clinton when he has ZERO experience, and no real plan? Don’t think that I believe women are not capable of holding political office…even the office of the presidency. I can tell you this though, I would NEVER vote for a woman OR a man who can’t make it through the CAMPAIGN without having emotional breakdowns. I can’t IMAGINE someone like Margaret Thatcher or Condi Rice or Kay Bailey Hutchinson breaking down into a crying jag because their political opponents are picking on them. I can’t imagine ANY woman who is serious about the political process SWOONING over some candidate. It’s just silly.

Barack HUSSEIN Obama should have put an end to it the first time it happened. He should have reminded people that this is a serious process that should not be decided by emotion but rather common sense. He should have reminded them that he’s not a rock star. I think in part it shows the real immaturity of those that support him.

By Monica

May 19, 2008 11:35 AM | Link to this

Mara and UsinUK, I am with you on the not-so-glittering generalities. Additionally, I confess to eating while standing over the stove (that’s when the food tastes the best), as well as leaving the blinds drawn - I don’t want the power bill to go through the roof in the summer time. I, too, scored well on the ASVAB, and I love Star Wars. Mara, guess I’m an outlier too.

By USinUK

May 19, 2008 12:02 PM | Link to this

Do you expect people to take the political aspirations of women seriously if they cry about how those mean old men treat them in the campaign?

who, exactly, has done that? Hillary only complained because the debate was being poorly moderated (as most of them have been) - you don’t ask 1 person the question then ask the other to rebut each and every question. Frankly, I think more participants should have called the moderators to the carpet for doing such pi** poor jobs.

I can’t IMAGINE someone like Margaret Thatcher or Condi Rice or Kay Bailey Hutchinson breaking down into a crying jag because their political opponents are picking on them

— ahem —

No one had thought Margaret Thatcher capable of any emotion at all, let alone the wetter kind that she had taunted her fellow party members for displaying. But when in November 1990 one after another, wets and dries alike, filed into the prime ministerial office and told her she had to go, it aroused emotions that had lain dormant for the 11 years in which she had visited unemployment, homelessness and financial misery upon millions. As the car swept her away from No 10 Downing Street for the last time, she wept and the cameras caught it.

Self-pity, like power, is addictive. After one indulgence, even the toughest can make themselves cry again, just by remembering how tragic they felt the first time. Thus it was for Thatcher. The ex-prime minister repeated her tear-soaked performance seven months later, in June 1991, when she decided to end her 32-year Commons career. A few hours after the announcement, she found herself dabbing her eyes in a Channel 4 television studio, heartbroken as she recalled the cruelty and treachery of her colleagues.

http://www.newstatesman.com/199911220023

By lyrazel

May 19, 2008 12:12 PM | Link to this

Be afraid chuckles, be very afraid. HUSSEIN is lurking in your tidy-whitey drawer…HUSSEIN is lurking…run and hide…run and hide!

Women could teach men quite a bit about how to fight in politics. Pundits are entertainment and should be regarded as fluff. Why so many watch TV to form political opinion is beyond me so those who do line up with MR. Pundit Quoter…

Clinton was never a first choice candidate for many many voters and a vast majority are young women. When your own party incumbents will not endorse your candidacy it is time to depart—being a woman she cannot quit without pasty-faced pundits degrading her for quitting—so she is essentially in the damned if you do/don’t role now. Just like she was damned as a b!itch cold hearted and cruel to puppies—she is damned for her allowing emotion—AT LEAST SHE HAD THE DECENCY TO PROVIDE HER OWN COOKIE RECIPE UNLIKE CERTAIN OTHER CANDIDATE WIFE WHO lifted HERS> <(Hopefully there will come debate some day on WtW IF politician wives ACTUALLY cook or engage chefs and why that issue matters to the American women voting public)

It is not time to bring out the power suit because such things promote women perceived to be role-playing as men! Women do not need to play getting power. Women have the aptitude and fortitude to play rough as the entrenched incumbents want to play. Women understand wink wink politics and have served the country well for decades with countless earmarks for their constituents.

Hussein!

By Mara

May 19, 2008 12:21 PM | Link to this

chuck - *I can’t imagine ANY woman who is serious about the political process SWOONING over some candidate. It’s just silly.”

“Swooning”, chuck? While I agree that “swooning”, (to enter a state of hysterical rapture or ecstasy), doesn’t really have a place in serious political discourse, fainting has physical causes. Heat, exhaustion, poor diet, dehydration, those with poor circulation can experience dizziness from abrupt movements or standing for long periods, many medications, etc. Men faint, women faint, children and teenagers faint. The article, if you read it, cited six, (six!) incidents of fainting in seven months and how ever many hundreds of political rallies.

According to Josh Trujillo from the Post-Intelligencer, (one of the photographers at the Seattle rally where there were several faintings, not all of whom were identified as “women”) - “At long, crowded events like this year’s political rallies, it’s bound to happen.

“There are always people that faint. Guaranteed,” Trujillo said. “When somebody has to stand at one spot, at a view up front of their candidate, and they wait hours upon hours with no water, no food, it’s expected and understandable.”

…

Doors opened to supporters at the Obama event just after 10 a.m. The senator began his 50-minute speech after 1 p.m. Trujillo arrived at 9:30 a.m..

“We have to get there hours in advance. If we’re not smart enough to take food and water, then by the time the candidate comes out, we’re feeling a little faint,” he said. He took a water bottle to each rally.

just because someone faints, a perfectly understandable result of physical stimuli, doesn’t mean that they are joining some kind of Obama-kult or not serious about politics. Indeed I think the argument could be made that anyone willing to stand around for three or four hours just to hear what a candidate has to say is pretty darn serious about their responsibilities as a voter.

Hi Monica! LOL, Wanna bet there’re more “outliers” than so-called ‘ordinary’ women? :^)

By Monica

May 19, 2008 12:22 PM | Link to this

Okay, I just read the article. Sounds like the author is not a Hillary fan, so she resorts to a gender war to rationalize her feelings. While I agree with some of her claims (women and men are definitely different), I don’t appreciate being called the dumber sex by a member of that same sex.

By USinUK

May 19, 2008 12:40 PM | Link to this

sooooooo … am I an outlier or a “regular” woman:

Love: “Sex and the City”, Project Runway, ice cream, weepy movies like “Joy Luck Club”, singer-songwriters like Duffy, Eva Cassidy and John Hiatt (plusses in the “chick” column)

Also love: Dr. Who, “Fight Club”, good murder mysteries, almost all of the comic-based movies (Spiderman, X-Men, Hellboy, etc) economics, politics, science, and angry-14-year-old-boy music like Everclear and Foo Fighters (evidently, minuses in the “chick” column)

Don’t particularly like: chicklit, NY Fashion Week, and I’ve never seen Grey’s Anatomy (serious minuses in the “chick” column)

soooo … I think I must be hanging with Monica and Mara! Hi ladies - I brought the salt-and-vinegar potato chips

By RM Nixon

May 19, 2008 12:41 PM | Link to this

Do you expect people to take the political aspirations of women seriously if they cry about how those mean old men treat them in the campaign?

You won’t have ME to kick around anymore!! boo hoo

By Monica

May 19, 2008 1:07 PM | Link to this

USinUK, Mara,

Minuses in my chick column: I don’t watch Grey’s or American Idol. One of my favorite TV shoes ever is MASH. I enjoy dining at Logans and Texas Roadhouse so that I can throw the peanut shells on the floor. I loved “The Land of the Lost” and “Space Giants.” When out with a group, I can go to the restroom by myself. When I go to a Braves’ game, I actually watch the game. Finally, I don’t like shopping.

Pluses in my chick column: I love “Steel Magnolias,” and “27 Dresses” recently became my new favorite chick flick. I like to smell pretty. I don’t wear white after Labor Day. I love to hold babies. Though I don’t like shopping, I do have a thing for shoes.

By Truth

May 19, 2008 1:23 PM | Link to this

Are we fixed? Is this the end of the spam storm?

If it is, great job, AJC.

By chuck

May 19, 2008 1:27 PM | Link to this

USinUK, I don’t think that the situations are equivalent. In both cases she was ending what was a very important part of her life. I imagine that I will blubber like a little baby when I retire from teaching. Hilary cried because of the pressures of the campaign. Can you imagine what her response to the pressures of the PRESIDENCY would be?

By Mara

May 19, 2008 2:02 PM | Link to this

LOL @ Monica and USinUK

chick minuses - SciFi fan (yes, that WAS me at DragonCon), child-free, can change a tire and the oil in my car, work in I.T., have no desire to nurture anyone, and hate talking on the phone. I don’t particularly like shopping either, Monica. I do, however, like Chernobyl-style hot wings. And beer. And football.

chick pluses - heels and skirts when appropriate (and sometimes when not, just for fun). Make-up because it makes ME feel “dressed up”. Lingerie. Love cats, like dogs, fear spiders. Gilmore Girls, Top Model and Project Runway. 30-minute meals and silk sheets. Bubble baths with chocolates and champaign.

Of all these points listed by Monica, USinUK, or I…none are likely to be reflective of our ability to think, to act calmly, or to make decisions for ourselves. We are not the caricatures that Ms. Allen paints “women” to be. There are many, many women who are smart, and strong, and self-reliant who find it offensive when someone impugns their abilities only because they have bosoms. Even so, had Ms. Allen a point other than “we women are soooo stoopid…tee-hee”, she might have gotten a better reception.

By chuck

May 19, 2008 2:45 PM | Link to this

I cried when they shot Old Yeller

By USinUK

May 19, 2008 3:04 PM | Link to this

chuck -

I cried when they shot Old Yeller

… don’t forget when they had to shoot Flag (The Yearling) … MAJOR kleenex moment for men and wimmens!!

By USinUK

May 19, 2008 3:08 PM | Link to this

A few hours after the announcement, she found herself dabbing her eyes in a Channel 4 television studio, heartbroken as she recalled the cruelty and treachery of her colleagues.

ummm … pretty clearly, the boo-hoo was for more than the end of her political career …

oh, and if you think that Condi, Kay or any of the other Iron Maidens you revere don’t have their teary moments on the campaign trail, then you are very muck kidding yourself. they might not tear up in front of the cameras, but their hides aren’t made of Brillo

By Monica

May 19, 2008 3:09 PM | Link to this

Chuck, I knew you were an old softie.:)

By Mara

May 19, 2008 3:21 PM | Link to this

chuck - what’s exactly do you have against crying? What is it about tears that distress you? Especially stress-induced tears? After all, we know that stress is bad for the heart, the brain, and other organs. We also know that emotional tears brought on by stress and emotiona turmoil, contained protein-based hormones, prolactin, adrenocorticotropic hormone, and leucine enkephalin (natural painkiller), all of which are produced by our body when under stress. It seems as if the body is getting rid of these chemicals through tears. People report feeling more relaxed and calmer after a good cry.

Why wouldn’t we want someone who was unafraid to use such stress-busting techniques to stay healthy and balanced? Especially when clear judgement and calm determination are needed?

By JokesOn

May 19, 2008 3:38 PM | Link to this

As for the question: Is it taboo for prominent women to attack their peers?

I think it should be taboo to verbally/literally “attack” anyone. Unfortunately, it is not taboo and is actually cheered on by the masses. Meh.

And as sociologist say: Stereotyping is false, but trends do tend to clump in groups.

By JokesOn

May 19, 2008 3:50 PM | Link to this

what’s exactly do you have against crying?

I personally think it gets in the way of productivity; if done on the job. Emotional based responses rarely are sound, but that is not limited to crying as chuck regularly proves.

Going home and having a good cry is fine (and healthy); doing it in the office or meeting, not so good (or healthy); basing your decisions on those emotions: very bad (and unhealthy).

By lozen

May 19, 2008 5:07 PM | Link to this

I find the article to be very sad. Her need to put other women down is sad. Her need to put herself down is sad and it’s nothing new. It reminds me of the 50’s attitude of so many women “I want to be part of the boy’s club because everyone knows men are smarter, better drivers, more rational, more interesting to talk to at parties, and —- well, just better all around - than women! I was in a group of women recently when one women spoke about her problems at work due to working with other women. I was surprised when so many of the women in the room laughed heartily at that comment. What if she’d said she had problems at work due to working with orientals or african americans or jews. Would the jews, orientals and african americans in the room have been laughing? I don’t think so.

Jeez. Senator Clinton did not boo hoo! She got tears in her eyes for a moment for pete’s sake. And Mara has a good point - what is so bad about tears? Nothing, except that crying is associated with women! And may be why women have fewer heart attacks than men.

This was excellent: Do you expect people to take the political aspirations of women seriously if they cry about how those mean old men treat them in the campaign? You won’t have ME to kick around anymore!! boo hoo

By RF

May 20, 2008 8:51 AM | Link to this

I almost laughed when I read the title of this week’s debate!!Clearly we’re entering a new phase politically and I suppose socially. The roles of women have been changing for a long time, but the basic macho-male white power structure has remained fairly intact. The only reason this debate comes up is because finally we’re looking at either a woman or a minority male leading the country. This is producing all kinds of stress in the traditional mindset. The GOP et.al. are at their wits-end trying to figure out how to deal with the notion that a woman or a minority male just might be able to do the job as well as a white man. So, we have the woman bashers coming out of the woodwork. They can get away with it for now. Race-bashing is definitely taboo, so the critics are going to have to try to undermine the women. Sheesh!! Can’t we all just get along and realize that women can compete with men in all areas? Considering the current state of the economy and world at large, I’ll give a woman or a minority a try.

I’ll throw one wacky idea out here. Seems to me it’s just marginally possible that the political movers and shakers are enjoying and encouraging the current economic crisis to make it that much harder on the upcoming leadership to make a go of it. It seems awfully ironic that we end up in an economic strain every time we see a forthcoming change in the political majority in Washington. Unfortunately, this strain is hitting us all way too hard.

Mara- maybe the current white-male power structure will quietly enjoy a good, healthy cry after the November election. Could be they’ll all feel better and realize they’re not the only ones who can run things successfully. I doubt it, but we can hope!

Chuck- 8 days and counting!! This year has been fast and furious hasn’t it?? I’m worn out—happy,but definitely ready for the little crumb-munchers to move on up!

By Gandalf, the Grey

May 20, 2008 9:08 AM | Link to this

For the first time in my adult life, I am proud of the AJC.

Nobama 08

Did anyone see the Vote for Change 08 bumper sticker in the bathroom stall on house last night?

By Gandalf, the Grey

May 20, 2008 9:13 AM | Link to this

I CRIED ‘cuz they didn’t let ME shoot old yeller….

By USinUK

May 20, 2008 9:56 AM | Link to this

And Mara has a good point - what is so bad about tears? Nothing, except that crying is associated with women! And may be why women have fewer heart attacks than men.

while I’m with Jokes that tears in the workplace are a bad thing, I find it amazing that men aren’t taken to task when THEY tear up. For instance, Atty Gen Mukasey got all snuffly when he testified a month or so ago about pre-9/11 phone calls (all “untruths”, as it turned out) - but, did the press take him to task the way they took Hill to task about tearing up??? oh, no. not they.

By Double Standard

May 20, 2008 10:04 AM | Link to this

I’m terrific! Alive and well. Thriving, even. How can I not be, when I have both sides on board? Thanks for asking.

By Mara

May 20, 2008 10:04 AM | Link to this

RF - …will quietly enjoy a good, healthy cry after the November election

Maybe they’ll even feel better after they cry out all those stress-toxins.

Gandalf - Did anyone see the Vote for Change 08 bumper sticker…

I did notice that, and pointed it out to the Husband!

By lozen

May 20, 2008 10:10 AM | Link to this

What do the G.I. Bill, the School Lunch Program, and the Fair Labor Standards Act have in common? How about federal aid to education, the nationwide network of veterans’ hospitals, and the tax deduction for child care expenses?

If you’re really stumped, how about Title IX, the equal educational opportunity law? The Equal Pay Act and the Family and Medical Leave Act? The Freedom of Choice Act? The Paycheck Fairness Act and the Fair Pay Act?

Yes, despite their paltry representation, women in Congress introduced them all, along with countless other reforms that affect our lives to this day. Women began serving in Congress less than 100 years ago, and throughout that brief history they have made a great impact - a truly progressive, society-transforming impact.

Excerpt from NOW newsletter

By USinUK

May 20, 2008 10:25 AM | Link to this

go, lozen, go!!!

By Mara

May 20, 2008 10:28 AM | Link to this

JokesOn - I personally think it gets in the way of productivity; if done on the job

USinUK - I’m with Jokes that tears in the workplace are a bad thing

You both think it’s better for the worker to stay stressed out (with the accompanied short temper, lack of patience, and “who gives a sh!t” attitude) than for them to step into the restroom and let go for a few minutes before returning to their desk calmer and ready to start fresh? Whose work do you think will be of better quality? Whose productivity will most likely be higher?

By USinUK

May 20, 2008 10:37 AM | Link to this

Mara -

You both think it’s better for the worker to stay stressed out (with the accompanied short temper, lack of patience, and “who gives a sh!t” attitude) than for them to step into the restroom and let go for a few minutes before returning to their desk calmer and ready to start fresh?

sorry … I should have clarified - restrooms are okay (although, with the workplace grapevine, EVERYone still knows that you cried in the bathroom).

By Archie

May 20, 2008 10:37 AM | Link to this

No I don’t think it’s taboo for prominent women to attack their peers. I just read the Charlotte Allen article and she really delivered some heavy criticism of women,jeez! Charlotte Allen was more critical than necessary to make her point and I don’t think her piece was written to help anyone. I am not against criticism of men or women and I do think women get a pass too many times for just plain bad behavior but Miss Allen went beyond criticism of bad behavior to just criticizing women’s behavior period and I think when you do that you don’t help.

By lozen

May 20, 2008 10:45 AM | Link to this

Hey RF! Long time no see; good to have you here again.

I find it hard to believe this comment by Shaunti: “Why is it primarily women who make vacuous self-help books best sellers, or who get addicted to empty-minded soap operas?”

And I could say “Why is it primarily men who keep magazines like Hustler on the shelves, or who get addicted to empty-minded sports events like wrestling and Nascar races?” Of course if I said that I’d immediately be jumped and accused of being a man hater, no? But when we women get upset about the stereotypes, we “just can’t take criticism even when we deserve it”.

The average IQ in the US is 100! Why are we surprised that some women are addicted to soap operas and some men to wrestling?

By Archie

May 20, 2008 10:46 AM | Link to this

I agree more with Mara on the tears thing. One of my coworkers admitted to crying because she was stressed out and I don’t think it caused her productivity to go down. I agree with Mara’s 10:28 am post and I will confess that the coworker who cried is someone I consider a friend,nonetheless I agree with Mara on the tears issue because guess what, while I like to blog it gets in the way of productivity if done on the job, right??

By JokesOn

May 20, 2008 10:50 AM | Link to this

You both think it’s better for the worker to stay stressed out (with the accompanied short temper, lack of patience, and “who gives a sh!t” attitude) than for them to step into the restroom and let go for a few minutes before returning to their desk calmer and ready to start fresh?

I do not know about that. Leaving a meeting that you called to step into the bathroom for a few minutes means you are taking things way too personal to me.

Whose work do you think will be of better quality? Whose productivity will most likely be higher?

If the person left a meeting for a good cry? I think productivity would come to a halt for a bit for everyone involved and people would lose (some) confidence in the person who had an emotional outbreak. I would worry about how they would perform at the big meeting for a $250 million dollar job with a potential client the following week.

There are many ways that one can reduce stress on breaks or at home, but the first issue is getting emotions under control in general.

I would suspect that for one that does not find a situation stressful, crying would do little good. So, crying more does not necessarily = healthier.

By Archie

May 20, 2008 11:05 AM | Link to this

find it hard to believe this comment by Shaunti: “Why is it primarily women who make vacuous self-help books best sellers, or who get addicted to empty-minded soap operas?” Lozen when I worked the second shift I was addicted to soap operas and I know several men that watch soaps faithfully. I don’t watch them anymore or keep up in any way and I cannot stand wrestling. I do love the NFL,NBA, and boxing. Hell women are women and should not be criticized just for being that and neither should men be criticized just for being men. As for self-help books I think men need to buy more and there are other things men need to copy from women just as I think women need to copy some things from men..

By chuck

May 20, 2008 11:13 AM | Link to this

Hey RF. Haven’t heard from you in awhile. Very glad this one is almost over. I just got CRCT test scores today. My kids were way higher than the state average as usual, but much lower than I’m used to. I think the biggest problem was the change over from QCC to GPS in the 8th grade. The 6th and 7th grade tests must have been ridiculous. State scores of about 20% passing are beyond horrible. I hope your kids did okay.

Your prediction of:

maybe the current white-male power structure will quietly enjoy a good, healthy cry after the November election.

…could be right, but I’m not sure that the electorate is quite as “evolved” as you seem to think they are. I think when it comes down to it, the majority will vote for the white male again. There are 2 factors that I think work against the kind of change you are sort of predicting.

First Barack HUSSEIN Obama doesn’t have the chops to be president. He is greener than green. His message is WAY to the left of where MOST Americans are. Hilary can’t point this out because she holds most of the same positions, but McCain won’t be under any such constraints. Second, Hilary’s negatives are quite well known. Many dems abandoned her because she tried to modify her positions to sound more centrist. She would be harder for McCain to beat in the general, but unless she completely destroys Barack HUSSEIN Obama she will not get the nomination.

By JokesOn

May 20, 2008 11:13 AM | Link to this

because guess what, while I like to blog it gets in the way of productivity if done on the job, right??

But you have control of your blogging, right? That is my point: People should have control of their emotions and stresses in the workplace. They are your emotions - go ahead and own them instead of them owning you.

By Archie

May 20, 2008 11:33 AM | Link to this

But you have control of your blogging, right? That is my point: People should have control of their emotions and stresses in the workplace. They are your emotions - go ahead and own them instead of them owning you. I don’t buy that JokesON. I have seen stupid anger issues from men in the workplace with cussing and lying. If we criticize women then let’s criticize men for the stuff they do. I witnessed another woman being kicked out of a club for raucous behavior but notice I said raucous behavior and my point is that bad behavior is bad behavior but just because someone does something I would not do it doesn’t mean they deserve to be criticized. Also I would have a problem if a woman called a meeting then left the room to cry but in all years of working with women I have not witnessed that behavior. I have witnessed selfish behavior and some woman using feminism to try and justify it but then I have also witnessed some lazy men. I think it’s good for women to criticize other women and I do think Hillary has made some mistakes in her campaign but so have other men in their campaigns and that’s why I think Hillary’s mistakes are just mistakes by a candidate not mistakes by a female candidate.

By RF

May 20, 2008 11:35 AM | Link to this

chuck- I think a number voters will vote based on gender or race in this election. I have several friends who have already stated that fact. What I’m hoping is that enough people can get past that to elect the one who best represents the collective stand on the issues. That stand, as I see it, is changing and moving decidedly left (as it did after Reagan). McCain is trying to show that he is for “change”, but he just doesn’t hit me with a pleasant note. He’s too much of a hothead and doesn’t show the stability I want to see in a president. While Obama may be a bit green, I see him being a bit like Kennedy was in ‘60- young, idealistic, and clear on his positions. He doesn’t have quite the charisma or family power history behind him, but he is hitting a note with a large part of the educated voting population who are leaning quite a bit left right now. I think a lot of it will depend on the shift in Congress and how willing the voters are at the congressional level to move that way. After two terms of conservatism, the pendulum is going to move left most likely. I’m liking Obama so far…

CRCT scores are going to be a flat-out mess. Read Cox’s statement on the AJC—issued over a month before the official tally will be published. The new social studies test is a joke. My oldest told me that there were many questions over material they didn’t even study. The math will tank because of the new curriculum. Any time you shift curriculum (especially as big a shift as math has seen this year), the test scores fall. The GHSGT scores in language arts are also going to be down. The test was “realigned” this year, which Educationese for “we made it harder and added a bunch of new stuff you had no way to know was coming.” My school dropped about 15 points in language arts, which was always our highest. Unfortunately, when the tests change, we don’t know how to adjust our teaching to address the changes until after we have a bad year. On a good note, my youngest, my baby, who struggles with borderline ADHD, passed all FIVE areas of the CRCT, and tied the high score in his class in math and science!!!

By lozen

May 20, 2008 11:39 AM | Link to this

Hey Archie, I’ve known a few men who were addicted to soaps also. It amazes me how many macho Mexican men are addicted to soaps and to soccer!

By JokesOn

May 20, 2008 11:45 AM | Link to this

Archie,

I have seen stupid anger issues from men in the workplace with cussing and lying. If we criticize women then let’s criticize men for the stuff they do.

I have not specified a gender (or disruptive emotion) for that very reason.

By USinUK

May 20, 2008 12:02 PM | Link to this

lozen -

It amazes me how many macho Mexican men are addicted to soaps and to soccer!

macho Mexican men??? good old English blokes are addicted to soaps and footie, as well … and, here in the UK, the soaps are on at 7:30 or 8:00 so that EVERYone can watch them! the two biggies are Coronation Street (“Corrie”) and East Enders. The cool thing is that they’re both about working class people (factory workers, barrow boys and the like), not about the trials and tribulations of the high-class, rich-and-powerful people you see in US soaps. Makes them more enjoyable, I think.

(And, yes, I’m a Corrie fan!)

By Archie

May 20, 2008 12:12 PM | Link to this

JokesON you didn’t specify gender but come on Mara,and others were specifically talking about women since that’s the topic question. Come on dude the topic is about women attacking their peers.

It amazes me how many macho Mexican men are addicted to soaps and to soccer! I see a group of Mexican men playing soccer every Sunday when I go to run around the track. You know Lozen, I wish we,men, would attend events the way women do but I wish women would evaluate relationships the way men evaluate them most of the time.

By Monica

May 20, 2008 12:23 PM | Link to this

Hi RF! Hope you had a good year! I read Cox’ statement that was published on April 26, stating that she fully expected scores to be lower this year. So why does the article today say that officials are shocked? Those social studies tests are nothing but Trivial Pursuit.

I am awaiting EOCT scores, which also saw the QCC to GPS change in English this year. Of course, we are not allowed to look at the tests, but as I circulated the room, I noticed that some of the reading passages were more than two pages long. My kids said that they thought it was easy; we’ll wait and see.

USinUK, do they have re-runs of Berverly Hills 90210 in the afternoons in England? The Soap Opera Network still runs them at 5:00 pm (one of my guilty pleasures in the summer time).

By USinUK

May 20, 2008 12:24 PM | Link to this

I wish women would evaluate relationships the way men evaluate them most of the time.

okay. I’ll bite. How do men evaluate relationships??

By Shannon, M.Div.

May 20, 2008 12:24 PM | Link to this

To get at the heart of the debate is to look at the question of essentialism. Are there some tasks that most men are better at than most women, and vice-versa? Sure, that’s true whether it’s an issue of socialization or biology. The problem is when we attempt to codify this into policy and stratify society based on what most people are like.

To put it simply, say 7 out of 10 women aren’t very good at math. If we then begin to steer women away from jobs in engineering, then we are missing out on 3 out of 10 women who kick butt in math. Furthermore we attempt to make them feel “unfeminine” for even wanting to do math.

This principle can be extracted across the board. Some women are well-suited for combat. Some men make great househusbands. Some women make excellent mathematicians. Some men are fabulous elementary school teachers. Some women capably drive a forklift. Some men are great hairstylists. Etcetera.

The problem is that when some women enter jobs that are dominated by men, they are discriminated against for promotions, subject to harassment in the workplace, and earn less than 80 cents for the same the work as the guy in the cubicle next door. And that, trust me, is a problem.

Articles like those by Allen are, forgive me, stupid. First of all, I’m not convinced that soap operas are any dumber than football games—and if soaps are inherently dumber, at least the fans of soaps don’t act nearly as stupid as the fans at football games. So yes, sometimes we all act stupid—and moronic behavior is not necessarily gender-specific. Is it dumber to buy a vapid self-help book or is it dumber to watch the 80th rerun of “Home Improvement”? I don’t know, and neither does Ms. Allen.

If we’re going to follow her logic… men tend to be more violent than women, so we need to lock ‘em all up and prevent them from being violent. See how stupid that is? Women are all stupid. Men are all violent. Fortunately, both are wrong. SOME women are stupid (and some men are stupid). SOME men are violent (and some women are violent). What was your point again?

We need to be treated as equal human beings with equal protections under the law—and before conservatives yipe that that’s all they want, some correctives need to be in place in order for that to happen. You don’t go from being oppressed to being equal by a magic fingersnap. It happens over time and with legal protection and the occasional difficult legally forced equality.

Perhaps that is what’s most annoying about Ms. Allen. She doesn’t recognize that until we do have genuine equality of opportunity, pieces like hers give ammunition to those who wish to pretend that there isn’t a current problem with inequality of opportunity.

That ammunition, if examined, may be shooting blanks—but even blanks can hurt if shot at close enough range without regard for safety. Similarly, the false reasoning in her column vanishes under scruitiny… but not everyone is wise enough to scruitinize it before they parrot it around as “evidence.”

By Please explain?

May 20, 2008 12:27 PM | Link to this

I wish women would evaluate relationships the way men evaluate them most of the time.

This statement begs for a detailed explanation, if not a specific, step-by-step procedure. Do you have the time?

By Truth

May 20, 2008 12:33 PM | Link to this

USinUK

“Soaps” (serials) are popular with both sexes,. Sat afternoon matinées used the same continuing drama techniques. I used to switch commercials in a TV control room. We were an NBC affiliate. I had to actually pay attention to every soap that NBC produced so I would know when to switch to local commercials.

I was setting in the lunch room one day and noticed that all the old guys that also worked in the control room were always talking about the soaps. That day, I requested a transfer to the newsroom.

Soccer? (footsie) Yea, big powerful, male athletes, that is until one of them bumps his widdle toe and then they cry like little girls. I have a buddy who always has soccer on. He knows all the teams and all the leagues and we are all so incredibly sick of it. I can watch a fishing show, but I nod off watching soccer.

By Archie

May 20, 2008 12:37 PM | Link to this

okay. I’ll bite. How do men evaluate relationships?? UsinUk, I am smiling at your question and laughing!!! I think men are better at seperating sex from love and we readily admit an affair is wrong. If we see a woman that’s dogging men out we won’t look to fall in love with that woman expecting her to change. Men evaluate relationships a little more logically but obviously not every guy does, thus the shooting, abuse, etc. Please let me off the hook today USinUk because I really agree with Mara and Lozen opinions thus far. That Charlotte Allen lady was just off the wall!!

LOL, though USinUK!!!

By Gandalf, the Grey

May 20, 2008 12:50 PM | Link to this

Soccer is the most boring sport to watch ever, well 2nd most boring if you count figure skating a a sport.

Lozen: Why do you consider NASCAR an empty-minded sports? It’s the fastest growing sport in the world. Mexicans like it. NASCAR has certain Southern traditions that I suppose you equate to stupid and empty minded.

Wrasslin is like Soaps with hotter woman and meaner men. It’s like Theatre in the Round, only more in your face.

I understand if you are too refined, or have a stick too far up you backside to watch, but don’t call someone’s passions empty-minded simply because you don’t like it.

PS People rarely die “watching” a NASCAR Race or Wrasslin, can the same be said for SOCCER? NOPE. RIOTS all the time when someone loses. (Thank GOD they often end in a tie!)

By USinUK

May 20, 2008 12:55 PM | Link to this

USinUK, do they have re-runs of Berverly Hills 90210 in the afternoons in England? The Soap Opera Network still runs them at 5:00 pm (one of my guilty pleasures in the summer time).

they might (I’m never home on weekday afternoons, so I don’t know) - right now, I’ve seen Ally McBeal rerun in the evenings, they reran Thirthsomething for a while, and other serials like that …

okay guys and gals - I’m heading home - pasta del fuego!!

By JokesOn

May 20, 2008 1:29 PM | Link to this

Archie,

JokesON you didn’t specify gender but come on Mara,and others were specifically talking about women since that’s the topic question.

Right. But, I am aware of the dangers (and futility) of jumping in that conversation. The defensiveness early and began turning to “but guys do …”.

Come on dude the topic is about women attacking their peers.

Then I must refer to your request to add guys in the mix.

See, I specifically have chosen not to direct the topic because at some point a guy is become a scapegoat for all the focus being put on women, event hough that is the topic as you pointed out.

I am not putting myself in that position on this blog. I have other blogs for the gender issues. This one is to hot blooded for that kind of talk. (no…not ALL of the people on here, but enough of them)

By Susan

May 20, 2008 1:32 PM | Link to this

Chuck,

By “my kids” to you mean your class or the whole school…i.e., or you the principle? If so, how did the whole school do?

I’m near Dublin and my kids (my classes that is) came in right about on the average. I’m pretty disillusioned.

By RF

May 20, 2008 1:56 PM | Link to this

hey Monica!! We’re waiting on EOCT scores with much anxiety too! Our GHSGT numbers already have us “on the list” with the change to GPS, so we’re not holding our hopes too high for EOCT. Like you, I glanced and saw some pretty long passages. But, my kids said they thought it was pretty easy and that there weren’t too many inference questions. Those always challenge even the best test takers. Hopefully we’ll know by the end of this week. I work with the struggling readers, and they made some huge advances this year, so I had more who were within range to pass EOCT. We’re hopeful, but realistic!!

As I read posts about the illustrious topic o’ the week, it seems to be a matter of common agreement that stereotypical definitions of men and women just don’t work anymore. Too many men and women have had to broaden their horizons, so to speak, to make life work for them. Behaviors change as situations change, and it seems logical that women will critique one another in competition as men do, depending on the situation. Frankly, I just don’t see a problem with it.

By Mara

May 20, 2008 2:04 PM | Link to this

Gandalf - It’s the fastest growing sport in the world.

kinda sad to see another American brand being taken over by globalization.

Shannon, M.Div. - We need to be treated as equal human beings with equal protections under the law…You don’t go from being oppressed to being equal by a magic fingersnap. It happens over time and with legal protection and the occasional difficult legally forced equality.

well said. the whole post was well said.

Archie, have you never heard the old saying “Men use love to get sex, Women use sex to get love.”? Having said that, I’ve seen waaay too many guys being led around by their penis to agree with you that “men evaluate relationships a little more logically” than women. It wasn’t a woman who coined the idea that the amount of ‘crazy’ acceptable in a “friend” is directly perportional to how “hot” they are. ;^)

By Archie

May 20, 2008 2:10 PM | Link to this

See, I specifically have chosen not to direct the topic because at some point a guy is become a scapegoat for all the focus being put on women, event hough that is the topic as you pointed out. (laughing) I got you man!!! JokesON if I get criticized and I am wrong then I just have to take it. JokesON you’re a good guy man, so just put your opinion out there and let the chips fall where they may.

To put it simply, say 7 out of 10 women aren’t very good at math. I am trying to get my daughter in that 30 percent. I like your points Shannon because there are some things that women do that I wish I could do or think about in a different way. Recently there was an expo here in South Carolina and there were seminars on foreclosure, saving money,etc., well the attendance was 90 percent female but I think men could use the info on foreclosure and saving money too. Anyway I liked your post Shannon.

By chuck

May 20, 2008 2:11 PM | Link to this

Susan, I’m a teacher and middle school SS department chair. I’m talking about my classes and my school as a whole.

RF, the whole mess started with implementation of the GPS being moved up…especially for math. Originally it was planned to implement one grade then add the next and then the next and so forth. There will be a big adjustment in math. One thing I don’t understand is that they didn’t adjust the cut score. Usually for the first couple of years after a big curriculum change like qcc to gps, they lower the cut score for a couple of years. I don’t know what kind of bozos they have at the doe to not think of doing that this year in math, ss, and science. English and reading were implemented first and didn’t need adjusting except at the HS level.

By RF

May 20, 2008 2:16 PM | Link to this

So yes, sometimes we all act stupid—and moronic behavior is not necessarily gender-specific. Is it dumber to buy a vapid self-help book or is it dumber to watch the 80th rerun of “Home Improvement”? I don’t know, and neither does Ms. Allen

Well said, Shannon M., well said. People like Ms. Allen can’t stand the fact that the ages old roles of men and women just might be interchangable, biological differences notwithstanding. It seems, as a society, we would all benefit from learning a few things from the opposite sex. As a single parent, I’ve had to learn to be mom and dad and move from traditionally male roles to traditionally female roles in an instant. It has definitely made me a more compassionate, thinking person than I was before. I’ve learned to admire and envy the often overlooked strength in women. Emotionally, tears and all, they’re much better adjusted than many men I know. And I guarantee their criticisms of one another are usually more thought out and less a reaction to testoserone-based territorial threat.

By RF

May 20, 2008 2:24 PM | Link to this

Chuck- you are so right about the cut scores and curriculum implementation. The math curriculum is being slammed in all through elementary and middle, and hits high school next year. The problem is going to be those kids who came through K-8 or 9 on the QCC math and now have to jump into the new curriculum without any preparation. It’s going to be a nightmare for at least three more years. I think we’re going to bounce back pretty quickly in Reading and LA. The change to GPS wasn’t as drastic for us, thank goodness. My question is how this is going to be an improvement for kids from poverty and from dysfunctional families, who have so much going against them in learning anyway. No amount of curriculum change or “raising the bar” is going to fix the social issues that plague our system. Not that anyone is asking those of us who live the reality of it day to day what we think!

By Archie

May 20, 2008 2:28 PM | Link to this

Archie, have you never heard the old saying “Men use love to get sex, Women use sex to get love.”? Having said that, I’ve seen waaay too many guys being led around by their penis to agree with you that “men evaluate relationships a little more logically” than women. Mara, we,men,do some stupid things when it comes to our penis but Mara I said a little more logically with emphasis on the little and when I said that I was thinking about Rev Paulk’s mistress and people I worked with 18 years ago and a radio show I listen to daily. It’s always a fun topic to discuss,relationships, that is but yeah, Charlotte Allen was not helpful.

By JokesOn

May 20, 2008 2:38 PM | Link to this

JokesON you’re a good guy man, so just put your opinion out there and let the chips fall where they may.

I do not have those discussions with this group becasue:

I have yet to witness the females on here not take a discussion about these things personally instead of discussing it rationally (no…not all of you).

And

I know that since I date only females, my selection set that I base my info on is slanted.

What sobers my thinking is asking myself “Can you imagine dating guys?” Yet, that does not invalidate that I have to sift through the tons of women that have their head up their a$$ to find the good ones. All while hoping I do not get jaded or bitter enough to affect meeting one of the keepers.

By Archie

May 20, 2008 3:18 PM | Link to this

JokesOn the reason I do have certain discussions is because of my experiences daily and over the course of time. On Steve Harvey’s radio one woman actually chided another woman, because the 2nd woman had the first woman’s man. Problem is that the 2nd woman is actually married to the man so the first lady’s evaluation process is way off. Here at work there is a lady that’s offended by a screensaver featuring female singers but yet this same lady cusses out loud like a sailor. This same lady makes snide remarks about the women that visit my cube,yet I don’t think she understands how nosy,selfish and rude that behavior is. This lady does her job well, though. and that’s my point you don’t have to like everything about a person to know they can do their job well. This particular woman does not think there’s anything wrong with her behavior although everybody else in this office does including other women. I would really be interested in the numbers of women that date guys in jail versus the number of guys that date women in jail. I suspect any way you qualify the numbers the number of women that date men in jail will be higher and that’s why I made my comment about the evaluation process. To stay on topic I think it’s better if constructive criticism of women came from women and it’s needed but the stuff that Charlotte Allen did was not helpful.

By Monica

May 20, 2008 3:40 PM | Link to this

My question is how this is going to be an improvement for kids from poverty and from dysfunctional families, who have so much going against them in learning anyway.

~gasp What! You mean we teach kids in… poverty? We shouldn’t hold ALL kids to the same standard? You mean that all students really shouldn’t…gulp… go to college? Surely you can’t be serious?

By JokesOn

May 20, 2008 4:01 PM | Link to this

To stay on topic I think it’s better if constructive criticism of women came from women and it’s needed but the stuff that Charlotte Allen did was not helpful.

I have yet to see a healthy discussion regarding how to assist a group of people, especially a group that has been oppressed.

Just look at how Bill Cosby got scrutinized, or how that Harvard (i think) brainstorming session crashed and burned regarding the possibilities of why more women are not PHDs.

Nope. The waters are not ready for a isolated group discussion, much less an “all genders/colors/creeds” type of talk.

By Archie

May 20, 2008 4:55 PM | Link to this

Just look at how Bill Cosby got scrutinized JokesON, people will always disagree but you can have the discussion. I think the ladies on this blog discuss things pretty good and yes they disagree with me but it’s normal for them to disagree with me when I make general statements. Some women agree with me but some don’t. Good job bringing up Cosby because he is someone that means well yet he has received harsher criticism than some of these stupid rappers. Cosby has given millions, millions of dollars to HBCU’s so he has put his money where his mouth is and the man is out there working to help his people,my people. Cosby is not a perfect man but he’s out there working. Good job JokesOn, bringing up Cosby the way you did. Let me say this if my daughter decides to meet and date someone already, already, already in jail then my criticism of her evaluation process will be much more direct than I have been on this blog. If the young male relatives that I have decide to date a known garden tool and have genuine feelings for this person while she is still known to be practicing her trade then yes I will criticize the guy for poor judgement that Mara alluded to earlier. Most of my commentary is directed at women since the topic is about women. I really believe there are some good single men and women out there but they waste time dating that are the opposite of what they profess to like. Charlotte Allen called women dim as in short for dimwitted but you have women that have built thriving businesses with good ethics but they still have some flaws just as guys do. People mistake the phrase “good man” or “good woman” for perfect … I don’t like Terry McMillan the person but I like her books and I will relate that to the topic later…

By USinUK

May 21, 2008 8:13 AM | Link to this

Truth -

Soccer? (footsie) Yea, big powerful, male athletes, that is until one of them bumps his widdle toe and then they cry like little girls.

FOOTIE … footsie is something completely different … heeheehee … and I think they’re amazing athletes - running nonstop for 45 minutes at a time and have mad skillz with the ball. I’m not a big fan of the game, but I do think they are killer athletes.

When it comes to rough-and-tough big, burly guys, give me rugby. woof!

(irony here in the UK: soccer is a gentleman’s sport played and cheered by hooligans while rugby is a hooligan’s sport played and cheered by gentlemen)

By USinUK

May 21, 2008 8:22 AM | Link to this

Archie -

I think men are better at seperating sex from love and we readily admit an affair is wrong.

Really??? Look at all the Congress critters (on both sides of the aisle) who have been caught with their trousers around their ankles - they don’t seem to have much of a problem with affairs until they’re caught.

As far as separating sex from love, women are damned either way. Either they’re too emotionally involved when they have sex with someone or, if they have unemotional sex (or “sex like a guy”), they’re called sluts.

If we see a woman that’s dogging men out we won’t look to fall in love with that woman expecting her to change.

As far as women looking at men like “fixerupper” projects, I hear where you’re coming from, but I don’t buy it 100%. Yes, there are some women who want to change/mold their man. However, most women I know who want to make changes - the changes have to do with the “you are no longer single, stop acting like you are” kind of changes. Sorry, but if you’re going to be in a relationship, there are changes by both parties that have to be made, but when women DARE to point that out, they’re accused of wanting to “change their man.”

Please let me off the hook today USinUk because I really agree with Mara and Lozen opinions thus far. That Charlotte Allen lady was just off the wall!!

Don’t worry, Archie - you aren’t on any hook, my friend! :-)

By Gandalf, the Grey

May 21, 2008 9:24 AM | Link to this

Newsflash everyone, it’s not the “GOVERMENTS” job to take care of all you little problems.

Liberals are so silly…..Liberalism truly IS a mental disorder. We should pass a law and make it all better….

Good Mornin’ all!

By Archie

May 21, 2008 9:36 AM | Link to this

Hello UsinUk, thanks for not putting me on the hook(laughing). they don’t seem to have much of a problem with affairs until they’re caught I should have said that once men are caught they readily admit they’re wrong versus saying something like they were brainwashed or saying they don’t have any regrets or some other excuse. Once men are caught they usually acknowledge wrongdoing whereas women have some amazing excuses or justifications. See Barbara Walters,Monica Lewisky,Jesse Jackson’s mistress, or Rev Paulk’s mistress. None of those ladies came right out and said I was wrong.

Either they’re too emotionally involved when they have sex with someone or, if they have unemotional sex (or “sex like a guy”), they’re called sluts. Naw, I didn’t mean to be that hard on women the way you describe but it seems so many women have sex with a guy then think they own the guy emotionally when it’s just sex to the guy. Shanti described this weeks ago. Anyway I do agree with Lozen and Mara about that Charlotte Allen lady because although I criticize women I have a stopping point.

As for Terry McMillan she is prominent woman that needs to be criticized by her peers because this lady went out and picked a man 20 years younger than her and now he’s come out of the closet according to her but it was her arrogance that’s the problem because she could have picked someone within 10 years of age that could have given her the good time she was looking for. In order words her evaluation and male-bashing mentality came back to haunt her. She did what many men do, buy a good piece of tail then pay for it later in divorce, my problem with her is that she is so bitter.

As for Hillary, I voted for her in January but I have a problem with Geraldine Ferraro in that now she is calling Obama sexist and I think that’s ridiculous. Why the hell do you wait until the primary darn near over to bring up sexism from the media? I knew there was incredible amount of sexism directed towards Hillary and I am a man!! It looks like you’re a sore loser to wait until Obama is 53 delegates away from becoming the nominee to bring up sexism charge. When the news media allowed stories about her pantsuits,blouses that’s when women’s groups should have blown back big time at the media but to wait until now it looks illogical.

By Bruno

May 21, 2008 9:49 AM | Link to this

Good morning bloggers.

I wish women would evaluate relationships the way men evaluate them most of the time.

This statement begs for a detailed explanation, if not a specific, step-by-step procedure. Do you have the time?

Here’s my personal list, in order of importance. How far down the list a potential mate meets my criteria, the longer the relationship lasts.

(1) Hot romance. Is she attractive? Smell nice? Sensual? A good lover?

(2) Able to socialize/connect well with people Is she able to have pleasant conversations and conduct herself well in public? Does she have a fundamentally good attitude toward people in general? Does she like my friends?

(3) Good teammate Do we work well together in accomplishing things? Is she a participator, or more of a sideline critic? Is she jealous of my time away from her?

(4) Shared outlook on life Do we react to situations in a similar manner? Are our political concerns the same?

(5) Overall comfort Am I able to be relaxed, and not defensive, when we are together? Does she stimulate my creative side?

Hope that helps, “Please explain?”

By Archie

May 21, 2008 10:09 AM | Link to this

Oh my God Bruno I was hoping you were going to let it die!!!

That was a good list Bruno, but when I made my comment I was thinking about women that say they like a guy with “a**hole on his sleeve”, I have never heard a guy say he wants a lady that has “a..hole on her sleeve”. We want exactly what we say we want as you described.

Let’s please,please talk about some things that I really like about women and just one of them is their attitude toward attending events. Four years ago I went to a Norman Brown concert somewhere down there in Atlanta,well the audience was predominantly women and what I liked is the fact they came by themselves or with other women whereas most of the guys had dates. My point is women seem to get out and explore new food, new music, new places, etc whether they have someone as a mate or not whereas guys tend to be kind of plain and stick to the same thing. I will mention other good things later…

By Bruno

May 21, 2008 10:09 AM | Link to this

I’ve never had a car accident, serious or otherwise

Wait a minute, Mara—what about wiping out the snow fence on the way home from a party when you were a teen?? You’re busted!!

As for the topic of the week:

USinUK - what makes the whole Charlotte Allen issue infuriating to me is that she defines what “women” are in such a narrow, one-dimensional way. For example, I’ve never watched Grey’s Anatomy, I’ve never had a car accident, serious or otherwise, I’m fascinated with science, and I scored in the 95th percentile on the Mechanical Comprehension section of the ASVABs. On the other hand, I have fainted (once from heat and once from sheer exhaustion), I have read a few “bodice-rippers” though they’re not my usual fare. Also, I have screamed in excitement when my favorite band came on stage (just like the guy next to me did) and I do have a preference for chocolate. In Ms. Allen’s little world, I’m not a “normal” woman, I’m an “outlier”. As you probably are, since you can add 2+2 without getting confused.

My opinion is this: Stereotypes/generalizations exist for a good reason. Our minds are programmed to notice differences in people, and it is natural to associate those differences with various socioeconomic/racial/gender groups. The value in doing so is that it helps us to construct a consistent world-view, such that we are less confused when confronted with behaviors/preferences which are different from ours. Are stereotypes/generalizations true across the board? Of course not—they’re generalizations, and are meant to be a loose guide to understanding, that’s all.

Obviously, no one likes to be pigeonholed to the point that you can’t be an individual, but I don’t see any way around it. Our brains are programmed to generalize.

By Bruno

May 21, 2008 10:23 AM | Link to this

Oh my God Bruno I was hoping you were going to let it die!!!

C’mon, Archie—You should know by now that I am a troublemaker! Honestly, I am hoping that some women will answer in kind, and provide the checklist that THEY follow in choosing a mate. I would especially be interested in hearing from Mara and USinUK—Incredibly smart women really turn me on, so I want to know how I could meet someone like them.

Let’s please,please talk about some things that I really like about women and just one of them is their attitude toward attending events. Four years ago I went to a Norman Brown concert somewhere down there in Atlanta,well the audience was predominantly women and what I liked is the fact they came by themselves or with other women whereas most of the guys had dates. My point is women seem to get out and explore new food, new music, new places, etc whether they have someone as a mate or not whereas guys tend to be kind of plain and stick to the same thing. I will mention other good things later…

Archie, great idea!! I’ve learned the hard way that focusing on the negatives only lands me in the doghouse. You’re a wise man!

BTW, I had a great time in your state last week—SC. We held our family reunion in Myrtle Beach (actually North Myrtle Beach). SO much fun hanging out with the whole family. It was “Bike Week” last week, and “Black Bike Week” this week, so my sisters had a lot of fun flirting with all the bikers. If y’all think I’m out of hand, you should meet my sisters.

By Bruno

May 21, 2008 10:47 AM | Link to this

Sorry I missed Friday’s discussion last week—the “mechanics” of what the word “GOD” means has always fascinated me. As a young child, I rejected out of hand the “traditional” explanation given in churches that GOD is a separate “being” who resides somewhere out in space. The word “omnipresent” prevents me from thinking this way. The “problem” of “Free Will” also becomes very confusing when you toss in the word “omniscient”, as Mara pointed out. Finally, “omnipotent” creates a logical problem when you pit the “unstoppable object” against the “immovable wall”.

In the end, the only GOD which makes sense to me is the God of here and now: the GOD of Creation/Destruction, the GOD of Love/Hate, etc. In short, the GOD of EVERYTHING. I don’t know how well such a vision works for anyone else, but, IMO, it is the only way to meet all of these seemingly contradictory conditions. As far as chuck’s theology, I liked JokesOn’s analysis the best:

And so, your dogma makes you live inside non-existent boundaries your whole life to find out that you experienced %50 there was to offer on this planet; and got the message (love) wrong. Not really a win/win situation there.

By Archie

May 21, 2008 10:51 AM | Link to this

BTW, I had a great time in your state last week—SC. We held our family reunion in Myrtle Beach (actually North Myrtle Beach). Come on back man!!

Another thing I like about women is that they will not, will not take lousy service at a restaurant!!! I will sit there and mope or lightly complain but a woman will let it be known she is not putting up with poor service. My wife and I ate at Denny’s years ago and it took awhile for us to get waited on, well I said they were just slow whereas she said it was more to it than that and she spoke up about it. I forgot the outcome but the point is she was assertive. I also like the fact that women can wear the different hair styles daily whereas guys have to comb their hair the same way day after boring day or else we get called names.

By Mara

May 21, 2008 10:53 AM | Link to this

what about wiping out the snow fence on the way home from a party when you were a teen??

like a tree falling in the woods, if nobody sees it does it really happen?! LOL! I didn’t deliberately leave it out. I was focused on my ADULT driving record. :^)

Are stereotypes/generalizations true across the board? Of course not—they’re generalizations, and are meant to be a loose guide to understanding, that’s all.

but wouldn’t you agree that stereo-types should at least be true for the majority of the group and be group specific? For example, one of the offensive stereo-types of African-American males is that they’re all thugs. Now it’s true that there are African-Americans who are thugs, but MOST aren’t. And there are a lot of thugs that aren’t black. So how does the stereo-type guide understanding if it is patently false? And knowing it is false, are we not obligated to point out the error and challenge it every time it comes up?

By Archie

May 21, 2008 2:23 PM | Link to this

For example, one of the offensive stereo-types of African-American males is that they’re all thugs. Now it’s true that there are African-Americans who are thugs, but MOST aren’t. And there are a lot of thugs that aren’t black. Those are true statements and I am glad to hear them come from a woman.

By Archie

May 21, 2008 2:25 PM | Link to this

For example, one of the offensive stereo-types of African-American males is that they’re all thugs. Now it’s true that there are African-Americans who are thugs, but MOST aren’t. And there are a lot of thugs that aren’t black. Those are true statements and I am glad to hear them come from a woman.

By Bruno

May 21, 2008 2:25 PM | Link to this

I also like the fact that women can wear the different hair styles daily whereas guys have to comb their hair the same way day after boring day or else we get called names.

I “busted out” this summer and got a new hairstyle courtesy of a gay hair-dresser. I actually like it. Now, instead of combing to the side, I comb it straight forward. It definitely hides the receding hairline better. If I could only get used to using “styling gel”, it would be easier.

but wouldn’t you agree that stereo-types should at least be true for the majority of the group and be group specific? For example, one of the offensive stereo-types of African-American males is that they’re all thugs. Now it’s true that there are African-Americans who are thugs, but MOST aren’t. And there are a lot of thugs that aren’t black. So how does the stereo-type guide understanding if it is patently false? And knowing it is false, are we not obligated to point out the error and challenge it every time it comes up?

Well said, Mara. I do believe stereotypes have evolved in our country judging by the content of TV shows. We’ve come a long way since Amos and Andy. I always do my best to judge everyone individually, but am prone to stereotyping while driving. Ever follow an Asian driver?? They are so damn cautious, they make my blood pressure go up.

By Bruno

May 21, 2008 2:46 PM | Link to this

Of course, one of the best ways to overcome false stereotypes is simply to talk to one another, like on this blog. Comedy is another great avenue. Personally, I think Chris Rock has done a lot to bring people together by “pushing the envelope” when discussing stereotypes, both black and white. Because he takes a balanced approach, we all can laugh together.

Jumping back to music for a minute, I was curious if you had any Grover Washington Jr. videos, Archie? I like a lot of the current smooth jazz artists, but no one compares to GWJ in my book. If you don’t have it, I strongly recommend getting his “In Concert” video from 1981. It’s available at amazon.com. The “Standing Room Only” video released in 2001 is also great. One of my biggest regrets was in not seeing him live. He came to the Variety Playhouse here in Atlanta in the late 1990s, but the weather was bad, and I decided not to go at the last minute. He died soon afterward, to my great regret.

By Archie

May 21, 2008 3:27 PM | Link to this

I have Grover’s greatest hits but no videos and I saw him live over a 8 or 9 years ago. At least y’all have a smooth jazz station down there in Atlanta whereas here in Columbia we have two competing stations that play jazz type music on Sundays only.

I think the topic of the week was a good one because it opened up some good dialogue. I liked the way JokesOn brought up Cosby because it was a good parallel to the topic because some blacks do think it’s taboo to deliver criticism in public of each other. I obviously don’t think it’s taboo. I do think women can discuss relationship issues without always blaming men, in fact, I see this in person often. Amazingly two ladies said the same thing Mara did about men and their penis, to me Friday night and I replied the same way I did here about women’s judgement and they understood and no big blowup occurred. I will confess these were women I have known a long time. People can discuss alot more than they give themselves credit for.

By Bruno

May 21, 2008 3:43 PM | Link to this

I have Grover’s greatest hits but no videos and I saw him live over a 8 or 9 years ago.

You must have seen him on his last tour, since he died in 1999. The video from 1981 is especially great, because you have a chance to see him when he was young and in his prime. IMO, the way that he relates to the audience is a step above most artists. With him, it’s all about the music. No hype or stage antics to interfere with the performance.

I think the topic of the week was a good one because it opened up some good dialogue. I liked the way JokesOn brought up Cosby because it was a good parallel to the topic because some blacks do think it’s taboo to deliver criticism in public of each other

I guess it’s just human nature to be defensive in the face of ANY criticism. Criticism from “outside the group” can be dismissed as being from “the outside”, but criticism from within can’t be dismissed as lightly. Although I often react somewhat defensively when personal criticism is laid on me, in the end, I welcome constructive criticism, like the kind that JokesOn often gives me. I also like pointers from ladies on how to be a better date. I think that I have to be one of the worst “first dates” around, because I prefer to skip the formalities and often behave in an overly familiar manner. Sometimes it works, but sometimes I unintentionally offend.

By JokesOn

May 22, 2008 11:51 AM | Link to this

Maybe a number of the bloggers just came here for the spam??

Or were they really just bots?hmmmm

By Bruno

May 22, 2008 12:12 PM | Link to this

Maybe a number of the bloggers just came here for the spam??

Seems like a weak topic this week. The article in question came out almost three months ago, so could be considered old news.

By USinUK

May 22, 2008 12:24 PM | Link to this

Seems like a weak topic this week. The article in question came out almost three months ago, so could be considered old news.

seriously.

either that or we’re all exhausted from last week’s debate!

By Bruno

May 22, 2008 12:47 PM | Link to this

I think USinUk is a bot. ; > }

By Bruno

May 22, 2008 1:00 PM | Link to this

Oops…I meant USinUK is HOT…yeah, that’s the ticket….

Anyone have any thoughts about the picture of Obama on the front page of the Roswell newspaper yesterday? They pictured him being in the crosshairs of a sniper’s rifle. Personally, I didn’t see the point in it, and thought it was in extrmemly poor taste. It’s sad to me that race/racial animosity is being injected into this Presidential race at every turn now. Why can’t we simply evaluate Obama on his merits as a potential leader? To me, his stand on capital gains tax (plans to double it) is far more important than his skin color and the KKK’s reaction to him being nominated. Of course, you have folks like chuck who still haven’t gotten over his middle name. I wonder if chuck knows how much he is harming the conservative cause by making much ado about nothing.

By Bruno

May 22, 2008 1:12 PM | Link to this

either that or we’re all exhausted from last week’s debate

I wish I had made a better case for thinking of God as being a here-and-now GOD last week. To me, the vision of God as being some far-away being is not only silly, but it allows people to behave badly in the name of “God”. When this life doesn’t matter, and it’s all about a mythical “afterlife”, I find that folks downplay the importance of being a good person right now. In relation to Science, I think a healthy respect for the miracle of life has tremendous practical implications, though I didn’t make a good case for that.

I hope I’m wrong, but I still harbor a deep fear that we are on the verge of some kind of bio-disaster with all of the “genetic engineering” going on. God’s Way is always the best way, IMO, and we can’t really get ahead by tinkering with the design. In virtually every case I can think of, there are always unintended consequences.

By USinUK

May 22, 2008 1:15 PM | Link to this

Bruno -

I think USinUk is a bot. ; > }

yep … a fembot … just like in Austin Powers (these boots are made for walkin … and that’s just what they’ll do … )

Anyone have any thoughts about the picture of Obama on the front page of the Roswell newspaper yesterday? They pictured him being in the crosshairs of a sniper’s rifle.

daaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaamn … talk about poor taste. sorry, but it’s stuff like that (and the curious george t-shirt incident) that gives the south such a bad name - even though racism is everywhere.

By lyrazel

May 22, 2008 1:30 PM | Link to this

Bruno, USinUK, JokesOn

Maybe the rest are actually working—rather hard to imagine, so lets pretend they started vacation early.

By Bruno

May 22, 2008 1:31 PM | Link to this

yep … a fembot … just like in Austin Powers (these boots are made for walkin … and that’s just what they’ll do … )

I have to confess to being one of the three people on this planet that didn’t watch any of the Austin Powers movies. I just don’t get into farce. For the same reason, I didn’t enjoy any of the Pink Panther movies either. I bet you are one tough chick with your boots on, though!

daaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaamn … talk about poor taste. sorry, but it’s stuff like that (and the curious george t-shirt incident) that gives the south such a bad name - even though racism is everywhere.

Racism didn’t seem quite as prevalent to me growing up in the North, though it did exist. Back in the 70s, we were too focused on partying to spend much time being hateful about race. I do remember some outrageous afros, though, along with the obligatory red-black-green afro picks. I kinda miss a lot of the 70s styles, with the exception of polyester leisure suits.

By Bruno

May 22, 2008 1:38 PM | Link to this

Have to admit, I’m SOO not looking forward to working again. I was getting bored just sitting around so much, but now that I’m on the verge of working again, boredom doesn’t seem quite as boring. It will be nice to see the bank account balance going up again, instead of down. I’m ashamed of how much money I spent the past 2 1/2 years, with not much to show for it.

By JokesOn

May 22, 2008 1:44 PM | Link to this

Maybe the rest are actually working—rather hard to imagine, so lets pretend they started vacation early.

I think I blew a tube laughing.

By Bruno

May 22, 2008 1:44 PM | Link to this

Maybe the rest are actually working—rather hard to imagine, so lets pretend they started vacation early.

I’m going to miss chatting with everyone, even my “enemies” on the blog. And I’ll definitely miss JokesOn’s advice. I’m going to try my best to follow his suggestion to put logical analysis ahead of compassion when dealing with folks again. Now if I could just figure out how to deal with my various emotional triggers…..

By lyrazel

May 22, 2008 1:44 PM | Link to this

Never saw an Austin Powers movie. Lots of people have not seen them Bruno. More than have: how shocking!

Best visual of the 70s was the pimp with aquarium platform heels… forgot the movie title…

By Bruno

May 22, 2008 2:03 PM | Link to this

Best visual of the 70s was the pimp with aquarium platform heels… forgot the movie title…

Was that possibly from “Boogie Nights”, lyrazel? Now, that was a wicked movie. Great soundtrack as well—I had forgotten about the Walter Egan song “Magnet and Steel” before seeing that movie. Very cool song. I also loved the Ohio Players song “I Want To Be Free”, though they didn’t include it on the sondtrack.

The best movie soundtrack ever might be from the movie “Almost Famous”. Tons and tons of great 70s songs. If you haven’t seen that movie, I highly recommend it.

By Bruno

May 22, 2008 2:14 PM | Link to this

Tough week emotionally—My former GFs daughter is in the hospital again. She’s beaten the odds so many times before, but I know she can’t do it forever. Another friend had to go in the hopital today to have a mass removed from his brainstem. Very scary. On top of it all, the Dominican girl is yanking my chain just as hard as she can….I think she enjoys it.

By lyrazel

May 22, 2008 2:22 PM | Link to this

I don’t know. Can’t honestly say if I have seen it or not… always wanted a pair of those shoes… Its been fun watching friends being nostalgic about the period as well as it is fun watching those rebels push brokerage houses now.

By Bruno

May 22, 2008 2:35 PM | Link to this

I don’t know. Can’t honestly say if I have seen it or not…

If you saw “Boogie Nights”, you wouldn’t forget it, trust me. It was supposed to be loosely based on the story of John Holmes, the porn star. Burt Reynolds starred in it as the porn producer. All of the guys remember Heather Graham as “Roller Girl”. In the final scene, Mark Wahlberg drops his pants and shows off the goods.

Its been fun watching friends being nostalgic about the period as well as it is fun watching those rebels push brokerage houses now.

As far as I’m concerned, the 70s were the real deal. The music was great, lots of good times, and everyone seemed to get along with one another. If you went to a concert, everyone shared their party “supplies”. Not so anymore.

I’ll get you that bumper sticker that says “One more cynical ex-hippie now working for the system.”

By lyrazel

May 22, 2008 3:01 PM | Link to this

Nostalgia? How old were you? The memory of yesterdays is always better than the reality of now… If you went to a concert, everyone shared their party “supplies”. Not so anymore Blame it on the War on Drugs. Billions of dollars has been spent so millions of americans bogart their joints now…

By Deja Vu

May 22, 2008 3:01 PM | Link to this

If I had ever been here before I would probably know just what to do Don’t you? If I had ever been here before on another time around the wheel I would probably know just how to deal With all of you. And I feel Like I’ve been here before Feel Like I’ve been here before And you know It makes me wonder What’s going on under the ground

Do you know? Don’t you wonder? What’s going on down under you.

We have all been here before We have all been here before We have all been here before We have all been here before

By Deja Vu

May 22, 2008 3:12 PM | Link to this

Billions of dollars has been spent so millions of americans bogart their joints now…

Roll another one, just like the other one. You’ve been holding on to it, and I sure would like a hit….

By lyrazel

May 22, 2008 3:22 PM | Link to this

Roll another one, just like the other one. You’ve been holding on to it, and I sure would like a hit… I feel I am in in the Polanski movie where the girl is holding up her cross against his approach and he says: Oy ve, do you have the wrong vampire!

By Lyrazel

May 22, 2008 3:28 PM | Link to this

*The FBI says an armed robber held up an Atlanta bank and was seen leaving the area on a red bicycle, with a tan cap and a towel around his neck.

The man entered the Suntrust bank inside a Publix grocery store on Glenwood Avenue not far from East Lake Golf Club shortly before noon Wednesday, brandished a black handgun and gave the teller a note demanding money.

The FBI says the robber was between 28-35, about 175-180 pounds, and in addition to the tan “do rag” cap was wearing a beige or tan jacket*

The funny/sad thing is…HE GOT AWAY!!!

Is this worse or better than the bank robber who got away on MARTA?

Now THAT is a topic for WtW!

By Deja Vu

May 22, 2008 3:35 PM | Link to this

If you smile at me, I will understand ‘Cause that is something everybody everywhere does in the same language. I can see by your coat, my friend, you’re from the other side, There’s just one thing I got to know, Can you tell me please, who won? Say, can I have some of your purple berries? Yes, I’ve been eating them for six or seven weeks now, haven’t got sick once. Probably keep us both alive.

Wooden ships on the water, very free and easy, Easy, you know the way it’s supposed to be, Silver people on the shoreline, let us be, Talkin’ ‘bout very free and easy… Horror grips us as we watch you die, All we can do is echo your anguished cries, Stare as all human feelings die, We are leaving - you don’t need us.

Go, take your sister then, by the hand, lead her away from this foreign land, Far away, where we might laugh again, We are leaving - you don’t need us.

And it’s a fair wind, blowin’ warm, Out of the south over my shoulder, Guess I’ll set a course and go…

By Gandalf, the Grey

May 22, 2008 4:54 PM | Link to this

I concur that the British Fembot is hot. Do any of you know how to reprogram one? :-) EXPAT: I concur the picture was in VERY poor taste, but the Curious George T-Shirt? Give it a rest! VERY FUNNY T-SHIRT!

By USinUK

May 23, 2008 8:24 AM | Link to this

Gandalf -

*Do any of you know how to reprogram one? :-) *

hahaha … honey, if I haven’t been reprogrammed by now (with a GOP dad and brother, not to mention years of Catholic education and being raised in the south) - it just ain’t gonna happen! :-)

Give it a rest! VERY FUNNY T-SHIRT!

eep. sorry, but I think the “portray the black candidate as a monkey” is just so very wrong.

here’s a Friday question for the class - who is going to see the new Indiana Jones flick this weekend??? I gotta admit, I’m looking forward to it (“Raiders of the Lost Ark” is the only movie that my entire family went to together - had SUCH a great time - my dad was like a big kid)

By Monica

May 23, 2008 11:29 AM | Link to this

Happy Friday!

USinUK, I can’t wait to go see the new Indy film. I have the trilogy on DVD. Harrison Ford is still hot!

By chuck

May 23, 2008 11:32 AM | Link to this

Come on dog. Do you really believe this?

I wonder if chuck knows how much he is harming the conservative cause by making much ado about nothing.

Do you really think that some centrist yahoo is going to vote based on the fact that I used Barack HUSSEIN Obama’s ACTUAL MIDDLE NAME?!?!?!

If you really believe that, you have a lot to learn about politics in general and American culture in particular.

By chuck

May 23, 2008 12:17 PM | Link to this

Hey Monica,

We’re going to wait until next week when the crowds die down a bit. At nearly 10 bucks a pop, I want to be able to enjoy it.

By Monica

May 23, 2008 12:26 PM | Link to this

I’m with you on that one Chuck. Have a great summer! Today is the kids’ last day! Woohoo!

By chuck

May 23, 2008 3:17 PM | Link to this

Me too Monica. I’ll be pushing them out the door in afew minutes. Don’t get too much sun.

Check in every once in awhile and we’ll talk.

By USinUK

May 23, 2008 3:36 PM | Link to this

chuck and mon -

enjoy your summer!!! (you made it through another year)

At nearly 10 bucks a pop, I want to be able to enjoy it.

SERIOUSLY - it’s almost tempting to wait until it’s out on DVD just so you don’t have people texting on their phones next to you!

Harrison Ford is still hot!

I hear ya, sister!