Woman to Woman

By El Perro

April 27, 2008 4:16 PM | Link to this

While I’m glad that there finally is a worthy W2W topic to talk about, it’s a shame that Andrea has proven herself to be totally unqualified to speak about anything related to economics or even fair press coverage, and instead wants to lead the cheers for the anti-Bush dimbulbs with her muddled statements:

Things are looking pretty grey out there, at least in part because the current administration seems to have forgotten what they learned in Econ 101: Out-of-control spending plus tax cuts equals a massive deficit.

Apparently you need to retake Econ 001, Andrea. Budget deficits have nothing to do with recessions. Nor does the Iraq War. As long as the government keeps spending, in whatever form, money is being churned through the economy. In fact, with the Bush tax cuts, the average person has more disposable income to spend than they did under Clinton.

It’s hard to fault Bush apologists for wanting to foist blame on media hype, but even most Republicans believe that neighborhoods filled with foreclosures do more to undermine consumer confidence than dramatic headlines.

Anyone with any brains has seen the “housing crisis” coming for more than a year now. For proof, go back and look at my blogs from last year. The record number of foreclosures is due to 2 reasons: (1) Too many investors jumped on the “house flipping” bandwagon the past few years in which they bought a second or third home at a greatly inflated price with the idea of reselling it quickly for a nice profit. Simple supply and demand laws eventually came into play in which the supply of new homes far exceeded the demand for new homes, such that the new homes weren’t worth what the investors paid for them. (2) Too many home buyers who actually OCCUPY the houses bought homes they couldn’t afford utilizing unrealistic “interest-only” loans. All of these loans had a “balloon” note attached to them, such that the “interest only” portion of the repayment plan only lasted for 2-3 years. Ditto for the “Adjustable Rate Mortgage” loans (ARM loans). For whatever reason, these unrealistic home buyers didn’t believe they would actually have to pay the principal on their over-priced homes at some point. Worse yet, Hillary Clinton is now proposing that if she’s elected, her plan is for the government to buy back these soon-to-be-repossessed houses, and resell them to the stupid homebuyers at “a price they can afford”. Biggest bunch of crap I ever heard of—conservative people who live within their means bailing out idiots who bought houses they couldn’t afford.

To remain viable, news may be presented with distracting flash these days (we can thank former GOP politico Roger Ailes and his FOX News Network for starting that trend), but the substance is still there. Like the new tone or not, the alternative is still unthinkable; Soviet-style press restrictions where the government decides what we should hear and how we should hear it.

More BS. FOX news didn’t invent sensationalism; it has always existed. I think the greater truth is that the 90% registered Democratic press has done all that it could for the past 7 1/2 years to put a bad face on ALL news due to their unhappiness that Bush won the last two elections fair and square. I still hear rumblings that somehow the US Supreme Court GAVE the election to Bush in 2000. The fact is that a Florida Circuit Court of Appeals Judge correctly ruled that the deadline had passed for recounts, then the Florida Supreme Court incorrectly tried to overrule the long-established deadlines. It took the US Supreme Court to enforce the original (correct) ruling. Subsequent recounts by the UPI and AP showed that Bush would have won even if the illegal recounts had gone forward. By asking for recounts in only selected counties, while not asking for the military absentee votes to be counted which were thrown out on a technicality involving the lack of a postal mark, Gore violated the due process rights of ALL the citizens of Florida, a fact which was noted during the original trial.

The fact that 75 percent of Americans believe we’re in a recession has more to do with varying definitions of recession than anything else, and our desire to face down all the indicators of tough times ahead. “We are absolutely going to have a recession,” David Wessel, one member of the trustworthy financial press, declared in one interview. Wessel, Economics Editor for the Wall Street Journal, went on to explain that “the problem with predicting a recession is this — when it’s obvious you’re in a recession, it’s too late to do anything about it. But there’s no way to know for sure if you’re going to have one.” A frustrating reality, but most Americans are handling it well — still spending while making job, education and real estate decisions with an eye on the storm clouds.

Due to the crisis in the financial markets, coupled with the high gas prices, it’s basically a natural consequence that consumer spending is slowing down. BFD. You can’t have year after year of economic growth with no downturns. Economic cycles are just that: cycles. The very word cycle implies both upward and downward motion. If you listen to the 90% registered Democratic press, you might think otherwise. When I think back to the recession which occurred at the end of the Clinton years, there was no outcry at all. Only stories about Monica. Why the double standard??

Shaunti seems to share her Heritage Foundation spokesperson’s optimism for an economic pick-me-up by the end of this year. I hope she’s right, but if the next economic surge takes place during a Democratic administration, will they praise our new president for picking up the pieces? Or will that good fortune be a media illusion as well?

The bottom line is that US Presidents have little to do with economics, except when they raise or lower taxes. Since both Hillary and Obama both propose to RAISE taxes, which will hurt the economy if anything, I hardly see how Andrea is so optimistic about a Democratic-controlled White House stimulating the economy. Ultimately, as USinUK pointed out recently, the inter-bank interest rates, which are set by the Federal Reserve Board, have more to do with the health of our economy by impacting the availability of capital than anything else the government does.

BUT—I don’t expect much real economic analysis this week from the anti-Bush crowd. Just more wailing and gnashing of teeth.

By El Perro

April 27, 2008 4:41 PM | Link to this

Like the new tone or not, the alternative is still unthinkable; Soviet-style press restrictions where the government decides what we should hear and how we should hear it.

And BTW, Andrea, your grasp of the proper usage of a semi-colon is about as poor as your grasp of economic ideas. The proper part of punctuation in the above sentence should have been a colon, not a semi-colon. The grammatically correct sentence should have been “Like the new tone or not, the alternative is still unthinkable: Soviet-style press restrictions where the government decides what we should hear and how we should hear it”. Sadly, you have a lot of company among your Lib buddies here on the blog regarding the improper usage of a semi-colon. The amazing part is that some of them make their living by writing, as you do.

Furthermore, it would have been better to say “in which the government” rather than “where the government”. Better luck next time.

By Copyleft

April 28, 2008 8:09 AM | Link to this

Spam and El Perro talking to himself—which is to say, more spam. Kinda pathetic, what this blog has become.

By Kim

April 28, 2008 8:23 AM | Link to this

Shaunti, by citing these people, “In an interview, Heritage Foundation Senior Fellow” you immediately discredit yourself.

By USinUK

April 28, 2008 8:41 AM | Link to this

kim -

actually, I know the JD Foster she cites (husband of a good friend of mine) - he’s actually a great guy, despite where he works.

however, this is all a part of the “the economy is all the librul media’s fault” meme that Fox News has started (Google Fox Recession and check out what pops up - especially the John Lott op-ed).

we went round and round on this issue last week - ONE definition of a recession is 2 back-to-back quarters of negative growth. There are economists who think that definition is limiting, so they look at other factors (employment, etc.). and, again, when Alan Flipping Greenspan (remember him?? heralded as a guru during his tenure in the Fed?? Mr. Irrational Exuberance) says that he thinks we’re heading into a recession, PEOPLE LISTEN TO HIM. He first made that statement in March 2007. Since then, other economists have joined him by either saying that we have a 50/50 chance of going into recession or saying that we’re actually in one now.

What is the media expected to do? ignore them and be cheerleaders, hoping that the public doesn’t notice the number of foreclosure signs they pass on their way to work? or the number of their friends who are looking for part-time employment to supplement their income? or what they’re paying at the grocery and gas station??

Like it or not, Shaunti, the US is getting a major economic swirly at the moment - unemployment is up and rising, as is inflation … pay is down … people have tapped out all the equity in their homes, so they don’t have much to fall back on … banks are limiting their loans to individuals and companies. Economists originally predicted a short, shallow recession/downturn that would only be in the first half of the year - now, most of them are revising it to last most of 2008.

but, yeah, it’s all the media’s fault.

By LaughoftheWeek

April 28, 2008 9:23 AM | Link to this

Spam and El Perro talking to himself—which is to say, more spam.

and it is only Monday.

By El Perro

April 28, 2008 9:39 AM | Link to this

Spam and El Perro talking to himself—which is to say, more spam. Kinda pathetic, what this blog has become.

Anytime you’re ready to discuss issues—specifically why the Democratic platform is a disaster for America—I’m ready, CopyLeft. But instead, all you want to do is whine about the good ol’ days on the blog (whatever they were). I guess it’s too much trouble to actually think for yourself and advance a position. Much easier to whine and pass the crying towel around. The bottom line is that you have nothing to say.

By Mara

April 28, 2008 9:43 AM | Link to this

let’s be honest…”recession” may NOT be the technical term for the current economic slowdown, but Jane Six-pack really doesn’t care what the smart guys call it when she’s shelling out $120.00 for half a buggy of groceries. Nor does she need CNN or the NYT (flagships of the librul media) to tell her that things are looking grim. Not when her husband has been searching for a job for three months, the savings is gone, and the mortgage is due.

Does she care if the term she and her friends use for this period of slowdown isn’t the “correct” term? Heck, no she doesn’t. All she knows is that her “bring home pay” hasn’t changed in three years, food costs more, gas costs more, the phone costs more, water, heat, you name it…it costs MORE.

She doesn’t need to be told that things aren’t good when she knows more than one person who’s given up on trying to find a job comparable to their old one, she sees “foreclosure” signs popping up like spring flowers, and the worth of her own house has dropped to less than she still owes on it.

If I never read a newspaper or watched a television I’d STILL know that things are not good. Simply look around.

(btw, perro…since you’re setting yourself up as the grammar/spelling monitor this week - I’m surprised you let Andrea get away with “she wants anchor folks to put down their sheath of notes…”. As we all know, a “sheath” is something that cacoons something else, like a knife or wire, etc. What Andrea meant was “sheaf of notes”)

By El Perro

April 28, 2008 9:46 AM | Link to this

So, once again, here is the Democratic platform with my responses. JokesOn and USinUK have been able to offer opinions about health care, but I haven’t seen any discussion about even one other position. The difference between you and me, CopyLeft, is that I know why I’m voting Republican. I doubt if you even know what the candidate’s positions are:

HEALTH CARE

Both say they have a goal of providing universal coverage and will try to lower costs to make it more affordable. The biggest difference is that Clinton would require everyone to get health insurance while Obama would not. Clinton says her plan is the only one that is truly universal because people won’t get coverage unless they are required to, similar to auto insurance. Obama says people will get insurance only if they can afford it.

I’m so glad that both Obama and Hillary “know what’s best for me” and are willing to use the point of a gun to extract money from me so that I am forced to pay for other people’s poor health due to their poor lifestyle choices. The comparison of health care insurance to auto insurance is completely invalid. Auto insurance is essentially liability insurance—it protects other people we might harm due to an auto accident. Poor lifestyle choices primarily affect the one making the poor choices.

HOUSING

Both want to help homeowners facing foreclosure, but Clinton’s plan includes a five-year freeze on interest rates for all subprime mortgages, which often go to borrowers with the poorest credit. Obama disagrees with the proposed freeze, saying it will drive up interest rates and keep other people from getting mortgages.

Both candidates also support legislation to help homeowners with “underwater mortgages” — meaning their homes are worth less than the mortgage. That legislation would provide government guarantees for their mortgages, but Clinton wants to go one step further than Obama. She wants the federal government to buy underwater mortgages and reduce payments to a level homeowners can afford.

Brilliant plan: Give anyone who purchased a home they couldn’t afford more of MY money so that they can continue to live in luxury while I continue to live below my means. The upshot of all these “bail-out” schemes is simple: No lender will ever give out a “sub-prime” mortgage ever again, so that poor people will NEVER have a chance at home ownership. Pure genius.

EDUCATION

Obama has called for something that irks teachers’ unions. He says educators should be rewarded based on performance as long as test scores aren’t the sole measure. Clinton says she would support merit pay, as long as it was based on school-wide performance and not the individual teacher.

At the college level, both want to provide more tuition relief through tax credits — up to $3,500 for Clinton and $4,000 for Obama. Obama also would require something Clinton does not. Students would have to perform 100 hours of community service to qualify each year.

Total crap. Teachers make good money already, all their whining about long hours aside. No other job I know of provides 4 months of vacation per year. I’m all for merit pay, but it needs to be linked to some objective measure, like test scores. Hillary’s plan would only serve to punish teachers who choose to work in “disadvantaged” schools. Group-think at its worst.

RETIREMENT

Both candidates say they would help low- and middle-income workers set up personal retirement accounts and provide government matches for the first $1,000 saved annually. But they would go about it differently.

Clinton would match 100 percent for families earning $60,000 or less, with smaller breaks for those earning up to $100,000. Obama would match 50 percent of the first $1,000 for families making less than $75,000.

A chicken in every pot! And just where does the money come from for all these “matching” schemes? Oh that’s right, from other people. Can anyone say “Income Redistribution”?

On Social Security, Clinton has refused to say publicly what options she would consider to keep the system afloat long term. Obama has said the best choice is to raise Social Security taxes on people earning more than $200,000.

How about fiscal responsibility across the board? No, too much work. Let’s just redistribute the wealth.

FOREIGN POLICY

The debate over whether the president should directly negotiate with rogue leaders has been one of the most prominent issue differences in the campaign. Obama says he would meet with heads of state in places like Cuba, Iran and North Korea. Clinton says those meetings could be used for propaganda and her first response will be outreach through other diplomatic channels.

Hmmm. An actual difference in their platforms. Hillary sound suspiciously “conservative” on this one.

IMMIGRATION

Another much-discussed division: whether to give driver’s licenses to illegal immigrants. Obama says yes, for safety reasons. Clinton says no.

So Obama wants to reward illegal immigrants with a driver’s license, while Hillary pretends to be a conservative once again.

TAXES

Both candidates would repeal Bush’s tax cuts on wealthy Americans to pay for their programs. Obama also has a plan for across-the-board tax cuts for most workers. Clinton doesn’t support Obama’s plan because of it $80 billion cost and because it would apply to families with significant incomes. Obama’s campaign says it would begin a phase-out for households that earn around $150,000.

More income redistribution. If Hillary felt so bad about the “rich” not paying enough taxes, why doesn’t she offer to kick in more of that $109,000,000 that she and Bill earned the last 7 years? As populist liberals, there is nothing stopping them from voluntarily giving while not pressing a gun to the side of the head of the rest of us.

By USinUK

April 28, 2008 9:52 AM | Link to this

you go, Mara!!!

By El Perro

April 28, 2008 9:53 AM | Link to this

Shaunti, by citing these people, “In an interview, Heritage Foundation Senior Fellow” you immediately discredit yourself.

You, too, kimberly. You’ve done a lot of squawking on the blog over the past few years about how voters need to be informed, etc. As such, I would expect you, of all people, to be able to offer something other than ad hominem attacks. You’ve complained about people calling Hillary names, like Shrillary, yet came up with this gem last week:

The important thing is to keep McKillEmAll and his short fuse out of the WH. It will be hard to have faith in the goodness or intelligence of America (I have a couple drops left) if that guy becomes our next finger on the button of global destruction.

How about some intelligent debate this week?

By El Perro

April 28, 2008 10:03 AM | Link to this

btw, perro…since you’re setting yourself up as the grammar/spelling monitor this week - I’m surprised you let Andrea get away with “she wants anchor folks to put down their sheath of notes…”. As we all know, a “sheath” is something that cacoons something else, like a knife or wire, etc. What Andrea meant was “sheaf of notes”)

Good eye on that one, Mara. Thanks for the shout. It’s always refreshing to hear from you, primarily because you actually have something to say, differently from the the whining sideline snipers who basically have nothing intelligent to add to the conversation.

Actually, I have no desire to be the grammar police on W2W. I realize that most of us are typing informally, and shouldn’t be held to any high grammatical standards. Andrea, however, is being paid to write a column, and needs to do better.

The truth is, I don’t like one-sided fights in which I win all the time. I love when someone can show me up, or at least make me think. That’s one of the reasons I enjoy watching Hannity and Colmes: Allan Colmes does a good job rebutting Sean Hannity and in interviewing guests of both political stripes. Here on W2W, I most enjoy you, NetB, and USinUK, because you guys can defend your positions and show me up. I believe kimberly is smart enough to offer real debate as well, but seems to prefer style over substance.

By Mara

April 28, 2008 10:08 AM | Link to this

helleeeewwww UusK! (get it? “u.s.” in the “U”-“K”?! hahahaha!!)

By USinUK

April 28, 2008 10:16 AM | Link to this

El P -

Andrea, however, is being paid to write a column, and needs to do better.

I agree … this week, she and her editors let the side down. Sloppy - that’s the only word for it.

By El Perro

April 28, 2008 10:16 AM | Link to this

JokesOn—I hope you check in this week to continue the debate about the best way to administer health care. You claimed last Monday that my scheme in which consumers were placed back in control of their own health care choices was a fantasy, and didn’t exist in the real world. Apparently you missed the ajc article on the op-ed page the very same day in which an MD explained why he no longer accepts insurance, and instead charges cash for his visits. His opinion, shared by me, is that such a model not only puts consumerism back into health care, but also is ultimately less expensive due to the elimination of the middle man (i.e either the insurance company or the government).

BTW, McCain’s position on health care is that we need an expansion of Medical Savings Accounts—i.e. pre-tax dollars which are held in an account so that health care consumers can choose their own doctors and their own services. IMO, because people allow their insurance companies to choose their doctors, then they let the doctors make all the decisions as to what tests need to be run, what treatments rendered, etc., people have stopped thinking on their own as to what is best for themselves. I’ve always retained control of my own health care, even as a teenager, and have benefited from it.

The other problem which drives up health care costs is something known as “defensive medicine”, which means doctors ordering unnecessary test after unnecessary test because they fear a malpractice suit from some sheister lawyer. Every estimate I’ve seen suggests that around 70% of all medical tests ordered are unnecessary. In a nutshell, that’s why I don’t support “nationalized health care”, but instead support “consumerized health care”.

By Lyrazel

April 28, 2008 10:23 AM | Link to this

So if everything is going from bad to worse why are there more millionaires in the US today than 5 years ago? No, not everyone invests in missile defense contract stocks—why some of these folks are just average Joans’ who instead of spending on frivolous stuff managed to save, invest and some new millionaires had ideas then with hard work created not found their pot of gold. Few of the new millionaires made their fortunes from inheritance—and most work forty to fifty hour weeks, but by cutting frivolous expenses, staying in the same home for 20 years, driving an economy car they have been watching their equity increase even if the TV show screams to redo the bathroom—or to use the equity in their house to get a loan for a new car—they don’t follow trends. There have been many voices advising caution that were not heard during the USA’s credit boom now bust situation. These were the people who paid off their debts, bought in cash, never had fancy spa weekends, never wore designer shoes but still avoided shopping at WalMart because they felt cheap goods from other countries meant paying a price beyond low prices. They were not fooled by trends, trend setters and television hype. Could it be that they have chosen wealth instead of acquiring high-status material possessions?

One common thread about all these new millionaires is how much they value education—their own and their children and grandchildren. They are willing to spend to give their children a better than average education even if they were just public school graduates—to them education is a priority. Sadly that is not common in American families.

While I do agree unemployment is going up, inflation is rising prices are skyrocketing I feel the bulk of America’s economic problems stem from borrowing—we borrowed off our equity—our country borrowed for a war—and why no one had the notion that loans would need to be paid back—is a mystery to me.

By El Perro

April 28, 2008 10:23 AM | Link to this

Serious question for all you Democrats on board who accuse Republicans of “marching in lockstep” and getting all their opinions from Rush Limbaugh: When’s the last time any of you voted for even one Republican???? I’ll bet my bottom dollar that kimberly, Archie, and probably CopyLeft all vote a straight party ticket every single election. Although I’m a hard core conservative, I always split my votes, based upon who I think will do the best job.

cacoons

And since I’m not the grammar police, Mara, I’ll let you slide on that one. ; > } BTW, it is such a pleasure to hear from you.

By USinUK

April 28, 2008 10:25 AM | Link to this

Mara -

helleeeewwww UusK! (get it? “u.s.” in the “U”-“K”?! hahahaha!!)

and I’m digging the accent, too!! VERY posh!

By Truth

April 28, 2008 10:29 AM | Link to this

USinUK

Didn’t we discuss this a week or two ago?

Are they reading the blog to get ideas for the blog?

Here’s an idea: Clean up the damn spam.

By Archie

April 28, 2008 10:30 AM | Link to this

Shanti seems to be a dittohead at this point. I mean with gas prices,foreclosures, and the unemployment rate going up ever so slightly why would she think the media is driving the economy into a tree. Reality is what it is and the media is not irresponsible in reporting the news as it is. Just a hint but if gas prices were forced down to say $2/gallon you would see the economy stimulated. My one word answer to the topic question is no and I believe Andrea wins this debate hands down.

By Truth

April 28, 2008 10:37 AM | Link to this

So far at 10:30AM on Monday, there has been 88,109 characters of spam.

There has been 24,993 characters written by bloggers.

Over three to one.

Good job AJC.

So what were your qualifications to get that job?

By USinUK

April 28, 2008 10:38 AM | Link to this

Truthy!!

Didn’t we discuss this a week or two ago? Are they reading the blog to get ideas for the blog?

hey … we’re trend-setters … what can we say??!!

actually, I hope they were reading the listserv and responding to the people saying they wanted to talk about something more substantive.

Here’s an idea: Clean up the damn spam.

hear hear!!! I second that emotion - figure out what the ding-dang problem with the technology is that allows people to hack in here in the first place!!!

By El Perro

April 28, 2008 10:42 AM | Link to this

Few of the new millionaires made their fortunes from inheritance—and most work forty to fifty hour weeks, but by cutting frivolous expenses, staying in the same home for 20 years, driving an economy car they have been watching their equity increase even if the TV show screams to redo the bathroom—or to use the equity in their house to get a loan for a new car—they don’t follow trends. There have been many voices advising caution that were not heard during the USA’s credit boom now bust situation. These were the people who paid off their debts, bought in cash, never had fancy spa weekends, never wore designer shoes but still avoided shopping at WalMart because they felt cheap goods from other countries meant paying a price beyond low prices. They were not fooled by trends, trend setters and television hype. Could it be that they have chosen wealth instead of acquiring high-status material possessions?

You’re singing my song, Lyrazel. I even agree with your statement about WalMart. In my experience, it always makes the most sense to buy high-quality items, which WalMart rarely stocks. I only shop at the big W for disposable items, which I only need to use once or twice.

Unfortunately, I’m no longer wealthy after taking 2 1/2 years off from work. That, along with my weakness for lavishing women with fancy dinners, trips, and nice presents has put me back in the poor house where I originally started. Can anyone advance me a loan??

By USinUK

April 28, 2008 10:44 AM | Link to this

El P -

When’s the last time any of you voted for even one Republican????

Jodi Rell (CT Gov) - she rocks the house. Otherwise, too danged many of them pander to the religious right - especially on issues regarding sex ed/contraception/abortion and I just can’t support them. They may be great people and would do a good job in everything else, but if they’re going to start telling my doctor what ‘scripts I can take, then I just. can’t. vote. for. them.

By Archie

April 28, 2008 10:47 AM | Link to this

It has been several years since I voted for a republican and by several years I mean more than 7. I voted for a republican superintendent of education here in South Carolina and a republican state treasurer here in South Carolina. The superintendent that I voted for was a woman and I only bring that up to show that I have been used to voting for women for a long time. I simply do not share the republican philosophy and I look at the office that I’m voting on and evaluate the candidates based on my philosophy. The woman that I voted for believed in and practiced diversity in hiring whereas the democratic incumbent had practiced a clear pattern of discrimination and he was doing absolutely nothing in office. It was the same way with the secretary of state office and the treasurer’s office in that you had democrats older than dirt doing nothing. Keep in mind that some state offices are non-partisan.

By kimberly

April 28, 2008 10:48 AM | Link to this

Why would I waste my breath trying to convince el mutt-o of anything? Frankly, I don’t want your kind on my “side.” Just being honest.

No, no, no. I put it upon the defenders of all things Republican (and maligners of all things Democrat) to change MY mind with logical, rational explanations about why all things “rightie” are good, and why I’ve been so horribly, terribly wrong all about everything all these years. (Especially since what I said about this stupid war has all been validated by generals and Republican senators since I was so horribly “wrong,” “negative,” and “un-American” to say those things.) I’ve long since given up on your kind completely, and have not one whit of faith or hope that there’s even a glimmer of a chance of redemption for any of you.

I have my value system; you have your own. But if you are compelled to enlighten me, knock yourself out. Thus far, I’m unimpressed.

By Truth

April 28, 2008 10:51 AM | Link to this

Archie

Reality is what it is and the media is not irresponsible in reporting the news as it is.

FOX News reports the news as it is. Of course they report the stories they choose which are usually anti-democrat. The big three and CNN do the same against Republicans.

News stations rarely are caught lying. They do report on what they choose and most of the media has been reporting that we are in a recession for months even though we are still growing our economy every quarter. There are some that choose to redefine the term “recession” in order to promote that Republicans have ridden the economy into the ground.

Gas prices are driving the economy right now. Those would be the same gas prices that Nancy Pelosy promised that if the Democrats regained control of Congress would be lowered. But (say it ain’t so) the Democrats have done nothing to lower prices. They have raised taxes on the oil companies which (say it ain’t so again) they will pass the paying of every dime on to us.

Now what I have written is dead-on truth. Pelosy promised it, but it was just a lie so the dims could take over Congress.

But (say it ain’t so, yet again) this story is not discussed, EVER by the Big Three or CNN.

So isn’t the media being irresponsible for not telling that story?

By El Perro

April 28, 2008 10:52 AM | Link to this

Just a hint but if gas prices were forced down to say $2/gallon you would see the economy stimulated.

Glad to hear from you, Archie. Now, please explain to me how you would go about forcing gas prices back to $2 per gallon. Obama has also given some lip service to lowering gas prices as well, but—big surprise—he hasn’t offered one specific policy as to how he’s going to do it. We can’t stop supply and demand forces from working. The Chinese, and even the Russians, are buying more and more gas, which raises demand. At the same time, Venezuela and the OPEC nations are holding tight on keeping production relatively low, thereby reducing supply. McCain, on the other hand, proposes to suspend gas taxes, whcih should help a little. The ultimate solution, until hydrogen fusion becomes economically viable, is for all of us to conserve. A 10% reduction in demand would do the most to lower prices.

BTW, Archie, when is the last time you voted for a Republican at any level of government?? Or, are you a straight party voter??

By Truth

April 28, 2008 10:57 AM | Link to this

USinUK

The AJC knows that the spam will be here every morning. But they have a filter that filters out bad words so actually opening up the site and cleaning it up would actually take an effort.

Not bloody likely!!

By El Perro

April 28, 2008 11:03 AM | Link to this

I’ve long since given up on your kind completely, and have not one whit of faith or hope that there’s even a glimmer of a chance of redemption for any of you.

Well, your first problem is lumping together all conservatives. Not every conservative is a religious whacko like chuck. No every conservative spends their time watching “Patton” and smoking Marlboros either. In fact, some of us are hard-core rockers. Just this weekend, I partied hard with Michael Allman, who is Greg Allman’s son. After we got around to comparing tattoos, he insisted on taking a picture of my Jerry Garcia tat to put on his myspace website. Very cool guy.

I have my value system; you have your own. But if you are compelled to enlighten me, knock yourself out. Thus far, I’m unimpressed.

The bottom line is that you are more closed minded than the worst follower of Sean Hannity or Rush Limbaugh. You wouldn’t acknowledge a good conservative idea if it bit you on the butt. Hopefully you will raise your child to make better choices about romance than you have.

By Mara

April 28, 2008 11:10 AM | Link to this

UsinUk - Otherwise, too danged many of them pander to the religious right - especially on issues regarding sex ed/contraception/abortion and I just can’t support them.

Bravo! Well said.

Perro - When’s the last time any of you voted for even one Republican????

Last Republican I voted for was…Presidential Candidate Ron Paul. (He’s still in the race, btw, so if in the general election you decide you can’t stomach McCain after all, drop a vote for Dr. Paul.)

and thanks for letting me slide on the cocoon issue ;^)

By El Perro

April 28, 2008 11:11 AM | Link to this

I simply do not share the republican philosophy and I look at the office that I’m voting on and evaluate the candidates based on my philosophy. The woman that I voted for believed in and practiced diversity in hiring whereas the democratic incumbent had practiced a clear pattern of discrimination and he was doing absolutely nothing in office. It was the same way with the secretary of state office and the treasurer’s office in that you had democrats older than dirt doing nothing. Keep in mind that some state offices are non-partisan

Thanks for the response, Archie.

Otherwise, too danged many of them pander to the religious right - especially on issues regarding sex ed/contraception/abortion and I just can’t support them. They may be great people and would do a good job in everything else, but if they’re going to start telling my doctor what ‘scripts I can take, then I just. can’t. vote. for. them.

I’m with you on the pandering to the religious wackos, USinUK. Nothing makes me more sick about the Republican Party than that. The bottom line is that fascists like chuck aren’t really conservative because they want to force their personal views on others using the force of the government to back them up, which is the antithesis of the truly conservative value of letting people live their lives as they choose.

On the Democratic side, I get tired of all the racial pandering/racial classification. Just last week Bill Clinton put his foot in his mouth once again by injecting race into the Democratic primary contest. Unfortunately, he forgot to hang up his cell phone after he thought the interview was over and showed his true colors. Pretty bad. If Hillary was smart, she would put a muzzle on him.

By USinUK

April 28, 2008 11:11 AM | Link to this

Truth -

But they have a filter that filters out bad words so actually opening up the site and cleaning it up would actually take an effort.

why is THIS the only AJC forum with problems? Not to mention, I’ve never seen copious amounts of spam like this on other newspaper message boards.

in the meantime, no time for movies this weekend - was too danged busy around the house (I love the whole Spring-get-the-house-organized routine!!) … did you see anything worthwhile?

By Lyrazel

April 28, 2008 11:15 AM | Link to this

Do you feel that you need a wash for agreeing with a liberal like me, El Pero?

The only way to lower gas prices nationwide is to have supply on hand purchased at less expensive cost. The US has failed to keep surplus stock of petroleum available after the burning of major supply tanks in Houston. Oil since 1970 was a cheap commodity, readily available with little competition for supply. All gas & oil drilling & exploration in the US ended because this was too expensive to make profit—hence the oil subsidy was created.

By Truth

April 28, 2008 11:16 AM | Link to this

$2.91 a gallon and the Democrats are going to fix it because the Republican Congress was so corrupt. LOL!!

Pelosi: ‘With Skyrocketing Gas Prices, Americans Can No Longer Afford Rubber Stamp Congress’

Monday, April 24, 2006

Contact: Brendan Daly/Jennifer Crider, 202-226-7616

Washington, D.C. – House Democratic Leader Nancy Pelosi released the following statement today on President Bush’s, Speaker Hastert’s, and the Republican Congress’ empty rhetoric on gas prices. Key facts on the Majority’s failure to address gas prices follows Pelosi’s statement.

With skyrocketing gas prices, it is clear that the American people can no longer afford the Republican Rubber Stamp Congress and its failure to stand up to Republican big oil and gas company cronies. Americans this week are paying $2.91 a gallon on average for regular gasoline – 33 cents higher than last month, and double the price than when President Bush first came to office.

“With record gas prices, record CEO pay packages, and record oil company profits, Speaker Hastert and the Majority Congress continue to give the American people empty rhetoric rather than join Democrats who are working to lower gas prices now.

“Democrats have a commonsense plan to help bring down skyrocketing gas prices by cracking down on price gouging, rolling back the billions of dollars in taxpayer subsidies, tax breaks and royalty relief given to big oil and gas companies, and increasing production of alternative fuels.”

Key Facts on the Majority’s Failure to Address Gas Prices:

President Bush, Speaker Hastert and the Majority Congress wrote and passed a Republican energy bill that President Bush’s own Energy Department said would raise gas prices on American consumers. Big oil and gas companies wrote the Republican energy bill, and the American people paid the price.

The Majority rejected imposing tough penalties on price gouging companies three times in the past year, since that time, gas prices increased by another 11 cents a gallon.

Speaker Hastert and the Majority have been blocking action on Congressman Stupak’s Federal Response to Energy Emergencies Act (H.R. 3936) since last September, which would protect American consumers from high gas prices by empowering the FTC and the DOJ to investigate and prosecute oil companies engaged in price gouging at each stage of the energy production and distribution chain and outlaws market manipulation.

By Copyleft

April 28, 2008 11:23 AM | Link to this

The bottom line is that you have nothing to say.

Neither do you, Dog… you just use a LOT more words to say it! (snicker)

By kimberly

April 28, 2008 11:23 AM | Link to this

The bottom line is that I don’t care what you think. Your ramblings have not and do not appeal to my value system. That I have no interest in feeding the troll who waits for a morsel to shred for an audience as evidence of his own presumed superiority does not mean I’ve “lumped together all conservatives.” On the contrary, I am lucid enough to make distinctions between different types of “conservatives” (i.e., social and fiscal, actual and confessed, thinkers and fanatics, etc.)

Freeing myself from the idea that I can get people of differing value systems to agree with me is liberating indeed. There are people with whom I share common values; it is with those that I will contribute and collaborate my efforts for change and a better America. Thanks.

By Truth

April 28, 2008 11:24 AM | Link to this

USinUK

did you see anything worthwhile?

I saw my editing system all weekend. This is nuts. I am afraid to turn down work, but it keeps coming.

My kitten (which is now almost full grown) almost took my friend’s nose off. He bled like crazy. Don’t mess with the kitty!

It is raining here and has been since Sat. night. We need the rain but it screwed up the Inman Park festival (which I couldn’t attend anyway)

I am looking at buying another house. The deals are incredible right now.

By El Perro

April 28, 2008 11:27 AM | Link to this

Last Republican I voted for was…Presidential Candidate Ron Paul.

I thought about you, Mara, while driving through the desert on I-15 on my way from Las Vegas to Claremont, California last week. Way out in the middle of nowhere, somewhere near Barstow, CA was a HUGE display supporting Ron Paul. The central theme was the phrase “The Ron Paul Revolution”, with the letters of “Revolution” printed backwards. By doing that, they drew attention to the word “Love” spelled backwards within “Revolution”. Kind of warmed my grinch-like heart.

Actually, I fully support Ron Paul and his libertarian position. I didn’t vote for him simply because I didn’t think he had any realistic chance of winning. I did, however, vote for Ross Perot twice back in the 1990s. I truly believe that a viable third party would be the best thing to happen to our country politically. It’s the only way we’ll get these folks to pay any attention to us.

By USinUK

April 28, 2008 11:32 AM | Link to this

El P -

which is the antithesis of the truly conservative value of letting people live their lives as they choose

Working in finance as I do, I have a load of GOP friends (and even a couple of family members) - to a person, they’re all disgusted that the religious right has taken over your party on everything from choice to equal rights for gays. It’s a scary thing when Barry Goldwater looks like a liberal in comparison to the rest of your party.

Just last week Bill Clinton put his foot in his mouth once again by injecting race into the Democratic primary contest. Unfortunately, he forgot to hang up his cell phone after he thought the interview was over and showed his true colors. Pretty bad.

what happened?? missed that story.

By El Perro

April 28, 2008 11:34 AM | Link to this

Do you feel that you need a wash for agreeing with a liberal like me, El Pero?

Not at all , Lyrazel. I’ve always found your posts to be of the highest quality, full of good ideas and well-supported arguments. So you know, I only use the term “liberal” to poke at the non-thinking members of the left who like to put all conservatives in one box, their vociferous protests to the contrary aside. Prime example:

Freeing myself from the idea that I can get people of differing value systems to agree with me is liberating indeed. There are people with whom I share common values; it is with those that I will contribute and collaborate my efforts for change and a better America. Thanks.

By USinUK

April 28, 2008 11:36 AM | Link to this

Truth -

wow - you just go!!

good luck in finding a new pad - deals to be had, yes, but banks have made the lending harder to get to. good luck!!!

and way to go on business being good!!

By HST

April 28, 2008 11:40 AM | Link to this

“We were somewhere near Barstow on the edge of the desert when the drugs began to take hold.”

By El Perro

April 28, 2008 11:42 AM | Link to this

We need the rain but it screwed up the Inman Park festival (which I couldn’t attend anyway)

Good morning, New Truth. I’m giving you that moniker due to your efforts to cut back on the political categorizations. I don’t want you to be like the closed-minded far left wingers who put every conservative in the same box.

I missed the Inman Park Fest also due to being in a seminar all weekend. My buddy, Col. Bruce Hampton performed, as did my friends in Stop, Drop, and Roll. Fortunately, local music is still alive and well, although the national music scene pretty much sucks, IMO.

For any fans of Shinedown on board, they are planning on releasing their new CD in June. The lead singer Brent and his GF just had a baby, so he’s been taking his sweet time editing the new songs. More locally, the toxicology reports for Sean Costello haven’t been released yet, but don’t be surprised if the cause of death involves “Coca-Cola”.

By El Perro

April 28, 2008 11:55 AM | Link to this

Working in finance as I do, I have a load of GOP friends (and even a couple of family members) - to a person, they’re all disgusted that the religious right has taken over your party on everything from choice to equal rights for gays. It’s a scary thing when Barry Goldwater looks like a liberal in comparison to the rest of your party.

Aha—Now I know why you know what an actuary is! And now I know why you are such a smart cookie yourself. I get really hot for smart girls like you and Mara. Ladies who build their political positions on fact, not emotionality.

what happened?? missed that story.

In a phone interview, Bill tried to make the case that the only reason Obama won the SC primary was because of race. He compared Obama’s win to that of Jesse Jackson back in 1988. WHat is ridiculous about that argument, of course, is that Obama also won several nearly all-white states like Nebraska as well. Then, after Bill thought the interview was over, he said something to the effect “Do you think I’m going to get nailed again for this sh-it?” Hillary needs to send him on a long vacation if she hopes to win the nomination. Ditto for Obama and Rev. Wright. Wright just can’t keep his mouth shut, and is hurting Obama big-time.

BTW, the Republican Party isn’t my party. I fully support gay rights, and letting people keep their private lives private. Especially in the area of religious freedom. I don’t believe in an anthropomorphic GOD, and don’t believe in “prayer”, so get sick to my stomach at A-hos like chuck who basically want to codify religion into law through forced public prayer, laws against abortion, etc. That doesn’t mean I dont’ have strong opinions about what is right in life, just that I have respect for differences of opinion.

By El Perro

April 28, 2008 11:59 AM | Link to this

We were somewhere near Barstow on the edge of the desert when the drugs began to take hold.”

Ha Ha—Fear and loathing in Las Vegas, for sure!!!!

I think the book which ruined me the most has to be Tom Wolfe’s “Electric Kool-Aid Acid Test”. If that isn’t one long advertisement for recreational drug use, nothing is.

Of course, I’m a straight arrow these days. Not even tempted anymore.

By Truth

April 28, 2008 12:08 PM | Link to this

El Perro

I haven’t really changed. I just haven’t had a reason. LOL!!

But to be honest, I just don’t have the time. Flaming takes a lot of work and while money doesn’t mean much to me, I owe people money and it means a lot to them. I am working like crazy.

I think the whole blog is doing much better in that regard, that is until I noticed that the very first post this morning was a personal attack toward you. But it wasn’t anything to get upset about.

This is not a good subject for Democrats. I’m sure you saw Nancy Pelosy’s press release where she clearly says that the reason for the high gas prices of two years ago was because of a corrupt Republican Congress.

So …

What’s the reason now, Nancy?

No response to that press release so far. And I’m not holding my breath.

By USinUK

April 28, 2008 12:10 PM | Link to this

El P -

BTW, the Republican Party isn’t my party. I fully support gay rights, and letting people keep their private lives private. Especially in the area of religious freedom. I don’t believe in an anthropomorphic GOD, and don’t believe in “prayer”, so get sick to my stomach at A-hos like chuck who basically want to codify religion into law through forced public prayer, laws against abortion, etc. That doesn’t mean I dont’ have strong opinions about what is right in life, just that I have respect for differences of opinion.

testify, my friend!! and interesting concept of an anthroporphic God - we created him in our image and then made him create us in his … hrmmmmm … (while I do believe in God, I sure as shooting don’t believe in religion)

*Then, after Bill thought the interview was over, he said something to the effect “Do you think I’m going to get nailed again for this sh-it?” *

I’m not quite getting the context here - is he saying that he’s afraid he’s going to be caught out in a stretching of the truth??

By El Perro

April 28, 2008 12:13 PM | Link to this

Well, gotta run and try to be productive today. Enjoyed the conversations with the intelligent posters who actually have something to say, unlike CoplyLeft who has resigned himself to sideline sniping.

BTW—doesn’t ANYONE have any political opinions about both Hillary’s and Obama’s “solutions” of raising taxes and redistributing the wealth in this country. Sounds like socialism to me, which is a proven loser. I think we all need to get past all the class warfare and let the capital providers do their jobs of providing capital so that small-time entrepreneurs like myself can scratch out a living and provide jobs for our employees. While I believe most of you here work for big corporations or the government, a full 80% of jobs in the US are still categorized as being “small business” jobs.

Can you back me on that one, Lyrazel??

By El Perro

April 28, 2008 12:34 PM | Link to this

testify, my friend!! and interesting concept of an anthroporphic God - we created him in our image and then made him create us in his … hrmmmmm … (while I do believe in God, I sure as shooting don’t believe in religion)

My concept of God is duly rooted on both the Bible and in Science, USinUK. In the Bible, it clearly states that God is an omniscient, omnipresent spirit. A spirit, by definition, is non-corporal. As such, it is beyond me why so many “religious” people speak of God as being some sort of grandfather-in-the-sky who intervenes directly into our little lives. Totally non-Biblical.

On the Science side, the words “omnipresent” and “omniscient” suggest to me that GOD is the aggregate of nuclear and other forces which imbues the Universe with an undeniable intelligence. That is why I think that “Evolutionists/Big Bangers” are totally full of crap. No number of “random” processes can create intelligence.

In the end, our ability to think is limited by our binary thought processes and reliance on “rules”. In the 1930s, my man Kurt Godel proved via Godel’s Incompleteness Theorem that no set of “rules” is ever complete, or consistent. Which is why Bertrand Russell failed in his attempt to codify all of mathematics in his seminal work Principia Mathematica, and also why Einstein failed to “discover” a Unified Field Theorem which linked together the “strong nuclear forces”, the “weak nuclear forces”, and “gravitational forces”. Humble scientists and religious people recognize these limitations, while arrogant fools like Brian Curtis and chuck think you can put it all in a bottle.

By El Perro

April 28, 2008 12:39 PM | Link to this

Continuing, USinUK…Jesus basically said the same thing that Kurt Godel did, only nearly 200 years earlier when he pointed out that Mosaic Law is inadequate to build a faith—or a life— around. What is important isn’t the RULES, but the SPIRIT. In the end, it’s all about love.

As for Bill Clinton, I think he was concerned that he would once again be criticized for his essentially racist views. Although he rode the “black vote” to victory in 1992 and 1996, he’s p** that Hillary doesn’t automatically have the “black vote” in her back pocket.

Have a great day… ; > }

By USinUK

April 28, 2008 12:47 PM | Link to this

see you guys manananana … heading home!

By Cheerleader

April 28, 2008 12:48 PM | Link to this

Gimme a “S” Gimme an “N” Gimme an “I” Gimme a “D” Gimme a “E” Gimme a “L” Gimme an “I” Gimme a “N” Gimme an “E”

Gimme a “S” Gimme an “N” Gimme an “I” Gimme a “P” Gimme an “E” Gimme a “R” Gimme a “S”

Go Snideline Snipers

By Andy

April 28, 2008 1:21 PM | Link to this

Mara—-I don’t usually jump on here, but you’re absolutely right—-I meant sheaf of papers. Somehow that got through our many filters…very sloppy of me. Apologies all around…

Speaking of filters: Shaunti and I hate the spam too, and we’re working on it. The AJC is understaffed for this kind of thing,and Diane used to clear it out sometimes herself. (She was on staff at the paper).

Topics: We’re bound to sometimes talk about issues you guys have already discussed—-the usual stuff that’s in the air. (We plan about 10 days out or so). If you want to know more about why we pick the topics we do, or have suggestions, please e-mail me directly and we’ll talk about it. Thanks all! andy sarvady

By JokesOn

April 28, 2008 1:23 PM | Link to this

JokesOn—I hope you check in this week to continue the debate about the best way to administer health care. You claimed last Monday that my scheme in which consumers were placed back in control of their own health care choices was a fantasy, and didn’t exist in the real world. Apparently you missed the ajc article on the op-ed page the very same day in which an MD explained why he no longer accepts insurance, and instead charges cash for his visits. His opinion, shared by me, is that such a model not only puts consumerism back into health care, but also is ultimately less expensive due to the elimination of the middle man (i.e either the insurance company or the government).

What you explain might very well be better than this system, but that does not make it the best system or better than a universal health care system.

This is a single case that is specific, yet effects 300k people: Your plan also does not address the 300k people that are un-insurable because of having an open heart surgery. The govmt program in place that does cover these 300k which are self employed costs $23k a year after copays, $18k without.

I personally do not think the systems either candidate are proposing goes far enough based on what I have read about other universal systems. I still would vote yes on either though because I would see them as a work in progress towards the greater, all-inclusive, programs. And yes, in these programs you can choose any doctor with little to no waiting time and no gatekeepers. That sounds more like the govmt guaranteeing that I get to choose what service and how soon to opt for it, not others making my choices.

I have heavy deadlines today but will part with the words of Switzerland’s/Germany’s/Taiwan’s leaders statement (each of them said it, but in different ways):

How can a government feel education is a right, but not health care? Both are equally and fundamentally important to the country’s needs as well the individual’s. They are forever tied together, for if you look at the wealth/income of people, it is proportional to their risk of illness.

By chuck

April 28, 2008 1:36 PM | Link to this

doggie, you said:

Every estimate I’ve seen suggests that around 70% of all medical tests ordered are unnecessary. In a nutshell, that’s why I don’t support “nationalized health care”, but instead support “consumerized health care”.

Not that I agree that healthcare should be nationalized, but wouldn’t this be an argument in favor of nationalization? If the government ran healthcare there would be no need for “defensive medicine” as you called it OR malpractice insurance. Since it would be a single payer system with some sort of bureauacracy, it stands to reason that they would handle complaints against doctors as well as sanction, thus eliminating the need for malpractice insurance, etc.

By Truth

April 28, 2008 1:46 PM | Link to this

Andy

Thanks for taking care of the spam today. It is very frustrating to come here and the vast majority of the blog is dominated by these worthless spammers.

I think the frustrating thing is that the spam appears every night. Never misses. I don’t know how complicated it is to remove the spam, but if it is simple to do, until the technology is made better. why isn’t it just a part of someone’s job? Come to work, open up W2W, delete the spam, move on to the rest of the day. Spammers wouldn’t be so ready to post here if their nightly garbage wsa deleted every morning before anyone could see it. As it is: if we are lucky, it might get cleaned up twice a week. If the spammers get four or five days of face time with each post, why wouldn’t they direct their bots to post all this crap?

As USinUk stated, we don’t mind you taking our subjects at all. I think this blog tends to gravitate toward more important topics than are usually presented as the subject.

By Truth

April 28, 2008 1:51 PM | Link to this

USinUk

What’s the deal with medical malpractice in the UK? Can a patient sue the doctor over there?

By chuck

April 28, 2008 1:56 PM | Link to this

“Democrats have a commonsense plan to help bring down skyrocketing gas prices by cracking down on price gouging, rolling back the billions of dollars in taxpayer subsidies, tax breaks and royalty relief given to big oil and gas companies, and increasing production of alternative fuels.”

TRUTH, can you tell me how in the world this “PLAN” would have lowered fuel prices? When IN THE HISTORY OF THE UNITED STATES has lifting a tax BREAK, ever lowered prices to consumers? This plan would have caused prices to increase faster and greater than they did.

There are ONLY 3 THINGS congress could do to lower gas prices. First, they could remove ALL TAXES on gas to consumers and taxes of all kinds on oil companies. OR, they could put rationing into place. Rationing would force consumers to reduce demand and thereby drop prices. Finally, they could ignore Florida and California and open up drilling along the coast in the Pacific and the Gulf of Mexico and ANWAR, and make it easier to build and operate refineries, nuclear power plants and clean coal technology.

The first 2 would lower prices immediately and for the short term. The latter would put into place a common sense energy plan that would lower fuel costs for DECADES. Gutless politicians won’t do anything though.

By Bruno

April 28, 2008 2:38 PM | Link to this

Howdy again guys—Lots of interesting points on the blog which I’d like to address. In light of all of the polite, respectful responses, I’ve “changed personalities” in order to respond in a more civil manner as well.

First of all, to Andrea: Thank you for your interest in cleaning up the pornographic spam. I generally just ignore it, but I can see how it would be extremely offensive to the women posters, especially on a site entitled “Woman to Woman”.

As for my criticisms regarding the quality of your columns, please understand that you are following Diane Glass, who truly was an outstanding writer, both creatively and factually. The AJC was lucky to have her for so many years. To a person, we all miss her dearly, even those of us who rarely agreed with her point of view. If I was hard on you yesterday and today, I apologize. No one will ever fill Diane’s shoes.

By chuck

April 28, 2008 2:48 PM | Link to this

Working in finance as I do, I have a load of GOP friends (and even a couple of family members) - to a person, they’re all disgusted that the religious right has taken over your party on everything from choice to equal rights for gays. It’s a scary thing when Barry Goldwater looks like a liberal in comparison to the rest of your party.

Let me ask you a question uusk…How many years did the Republicans control congress BEFORE that occurred? NONE. They can be as disgusted as they like. IF however, they want us to LEAVE, they’ll never win another election. It’s a relatively strong coalition because most of us as “Social Conservatives” are also FISCAL conservatives. It’s called the Reagan Revolution. Deal with it, because if we ever do get disgusted enough with the Republican party and leave, they can prepare to be permanent back benchers.

By Bruno

April 28, 2008 2:58 PM | Link to this

Secondly, to JokesOn:

What you explain might very well be better than this system, but that does not make it the best system or better than a universal health care system.

This is a single case that is specific, yet effects 300k people: Your plan also does not address the 300k people that are un-insurable because of having an open heart surgery. The govmt program in place that does cover these 300k which are self employed costs $23k a year after copays, $18k without.

My concern about universal health care is that it ultimately in anti-consumer, and further removes people from the BEST health care system, which is one based on knowledgeable consumers making their own decisions, utilizing the doctor as a RESOURCE of knowledge, and not as the final decision-maker. I can’t tell you how many times I cringed while in practice when someone came to me and said “The doctor PUT me on such and such a medication.” No doctor ever PUT me on ANYTHING. At worst, I DECIDED to take a certain medication based upon a discussion with the MD. World of difference between the two scenarios.

As for your second point, I agree that it is problematic how to deal with folks who have chronic health problems, often through no fault of their own. For those folks, I would recommend either private charity to pick up the slack, or at worst a government program to take care of them if they can’t afford coverage themselves.

The biggest problem with universal coverage is that if something is free, then people will opt for the most expensive tests and the most expensive treatments, in which case rationing—and the subsequent loss of control of your own health care—will have to take place.

At any rate, let’s continue the debate when you have time. If you have a chance, please reference a link so that I can see the comparisons of our system with the “7 best systems” so that I can critique the article.

By Bruno

April 28, 2008 3:08 PM | Link to this

Next, chuck. I’ll make you a deal, based upon your (somewhat) respectful response. I’ll cut out the personal attacks if you do. The bottom line is that our visions of a conservative world based on conservative values aren’t that far apart. Our biggest difference is in how to implement it. I oppose any laws which limit freedom of choice, however repulsive those choices may be to you and me. I especially abhor women sleeping around, then using abortion as a de facto form of birth control. However, I would NEVER propose making abortion illegal, or even unavailable. Similarly, while I think attaining spiritual values is the way to go, I can’t support any governmental support for school prayer, even prayers made over PA systems at sporting events due to the non-establishment clause placed in our Constitution.

On a personal front, I’d like to make a confession to you. Most of my animosity toward you is based upon your criticisms of kimberly. As many times as she has shunned me, I still have a soft spot in my heart for her. When the chips were really down for me last year, and I didn’t want to live any longer, she gave me a glimmer of hope to hang in there. For that, I will always be indebted to her. She can say any nasty thing about me she wants, I will always cherish her.

By Bruno

April 28, 2008 3:16 PM | Link to this

Not that I agree that healthcare should be nationalized, but wouldn’t this be an argument in favor of nationalization? If the government ran healthcare there would be no need for “defensive medicine” as you called it OR malpractice insurance. Since it would be a single payer system with some sort of bureauacracy, it stands to reason that they would handle complaints against doctors as well as sanction, thus eliminating the need for malpractice insurance, etc.

As for your specific comment regarding health care, any system would still have to include malpractice. Otherwise, the quality of care would suffer. The biggest change I would like to see is for malpractice claims to be handled by a TRUE jury of the doctor’s peers: i.e. other doctors who are knowledgeable about the FACTS of the case, and not some uneducated jury in Alabama who gives every plaintiff millions of dollars for every perceived slight.

The bottom line is that the most powerful lobby in the US is The Trial Lawyer’s Association. There’s no way in heck that they are going to allow true tort reform in this country. So, while the Libs cry about insurance company lobbyists, they keep forgetting who the real enemy is: the lawyers.

Thank you for your polite and thoughtful response today.

By Truth

April 28, 2008 3:23 PM | Link to this

chuck

I answered you post, but it was not posted.

I’ll just say that I only posted Pelosy’s press release with one original line at the head.

So now posts are being deleted.

Nice blog.

By Bruno

April 28, 2008 3:25 PM | Link to this

Finally, New Truth:

There are ONLY 3 THINGS congress could do to lower gas prices. First, they could remove ALL TAXES on gas to consumers and taxes of all kinds on oil companies. OR, they could put rationing into place. Rationing would force consumers to reduce demand and thereby drop prices. Finally, they could ignore Florida and California and open up drilling along the coast in the Pacific and the Gulf of Mexico and ANWAR, and make it easier to build and operate refineries, nuclear power plants and clean coal technology.

I agree with your analysis. For the life of me, I can’t see how Obama’s supporters think he can do anything realistic to regulate gas prices without abandoning the free enterprise system, which would be a total disaster, IMO.

Our best long-term hope is to keep working on perfecting “cold fusion”, which is the fusion of hydrogen using “heavy water” as a fuel source. There are no toxic byproducts of hydrogen fusion, unlike any other form of nuclear fission or burning of fossil fuels. Wind power and solar power sound nice, but you need massive equipment to generate a small amount of electricity. Hydro power is good, but there are only so many waterfalls in the world. One final source of energy production may rely indirectly on solar power: i.e. by capitalizing on the temperature differences in the ocean. Several types of metals can create a flow of electrons just based on temperature differentials. That would be a cool way to capture the energy of the sun, which isn’t scheduled to run out for many more eons.

By Bruno

April 28, 2008 3:27 PM | Link to this

On the personal front, the former GF agreed to take me back after we had a lot of fun this weekend. She’s the love of my life.

By kimberly

April 28, 2008 3:33 PM | Link to this

IF however, they want us to LEAVE, they’ll never win another election. … Sounds like extortion or a threat of some kind. Is it? Just curious as to how the Republican party works.

It’s a relatively strong coalition because most of us as “Social Conservatives” are also FISCAL conservatives. .. Is this supported by the actions of the borrow-and-spend Republicans who controlled Congress for so long, trumpeting the suppression of rights for Homosexual Americans while turning a blind eye to the no-bid, no-audit free-for-all war spending that’s fleeced our treasury into triple negative numbers?

It’s called the Reagan Revolution. Deal with it, … a great quip, in the tradition of the Big Quipper. Kudos!

BTW, I did not start the “us vs. them, with us or against us” mentality that has ascended and taken over our nation’s good sense in the past two decades. For years I expressed total dismay and disappointment at the demonizing of other Americans (and me for daring to express my opinion), and the pervasive unwillingness to truly come together or at least reach common middle ground.

But I heard so much “with us or against us” talk, that I finally acquiesced and accepted the reality: You can’t become “one” with one who doesn’t want to become “one” with you, whether it’s one person or 50 million. Heh… Am I wrong? Aww. If there is some logic to such a pointless pursuit, please enlighten.

By Truth

April 28, 2008 3:53 PM | Link to this

Bruno

Thanks, but that was chuck. It was actually written to me because I posted the press release of Nancy Pelosy from 2006 where she was saying that the democrats could lower the price of gas.

I composed a nice post explaining this to chuck, but it never posted.

By lyrazel

April 28, 2008 3:56 PM | Link to this

good luck bruno.

By Truth

April 28, 2008 4:05 PM | Link to this

Kimberly

BTW, I did not start the “us vs. them, with us or against us” mentality that has ascended and taken over our nation’s good sense in the past two decades.

That was probably caused by FOX News. I’m not being sarcastic, it probably was. But there is a reason why FOX took off. There was no voice for conservatives in the media, at least in the television media. Was that better?

I hate that TV News has become a “gotcha” industry and has figured out how to make billions by destroying US presidents. Right now, they are making billions by destroying candidates. Because of our Constitution, it ain’t going to get any better and it ain’t just FOX News doing the damage.

By Bruno

April 28, 2008 4:08 PM | Link to this

BTW, I did not start the “us vs. them, with us or against us” mentality that has ascended and taken over our nation’s good sense in the past two decades. For years I expressed total dismay and disappointment at the demonizing of other Americans (and me for daring to express my opinion), and the pervasive unwillingness to truly come together or at least reach common middle ground.

Hopefully, you’ll be a better person and rise above the us vs. them mentality once again. FYI, that phenomenon didn’t start with Bush either. It has been a staple of American politics as long as I can remember. Your man, Bill Clinton, was just as guilty of partisan politics with his open loathing of the military and rejection of core moral values which a lot of conservatives hold dear to their heart. Admittedly, Bush took it to a new level, which I hold against him.

Thanks again for (literally) saving my life last year. You are a dear person, all political differences aside. In you, I see an honesty and desire to see a better world that not everyone strives for.

By Bruno

April 28, 2008 4:11 PM | Link to this

good luck bruno

Thanks, Lyrazel. You know, the older I get, the less I know. Or the less certain I am of my views. The only thing I know is that love is the most important thing. Without it, no other successes in life mean anything.

Big group hug. ; > }

P.S. I’ll probably always be a smart-a* however.

By Bruno

April 28, 2008 4:16 PM | Link to this

Since I’m all sappy now, I’m going to go with some Jefferson Starship for the song of the day:

All we gotta do

Is get a little faith in you

Oh, I’ve been (to) so many places

I’ve seen some things

I know, love is the answer

Keeps holding this world together

Ain’t nothing better

Ain’t nothing better

By Truth

April 28, 2008 4:26 PM | Link to this

I need to run, but I have a question for everyone that lives in Atlanta:

Does your water smell like Clorox?

I was in a bar last night listening to a friend’s band. We stuck around until closing. As soon as the faucets were opened to clean, the bar was filled with the odor of chlorine.

Today, I am washing clothes and the smell is making me gag whenever I go into that part of the house.

I had my water tested last fall and the city said that there was no bacteria in the water. There is also no bacteria in a bottle of Clorox either, but I don’t want to drink it.

All my neighbors are complaining about this. What the hell is the city doing?

By Archie

April 28, 2008 4:49 PM | Link to this

OR, they could put rationing into place. Rationing would force consumers to reduce demand and thereby drop prices. That kind of talk makes sense and it’s exactly why I don’t think supply and demand is the problem but just plain old greed. Chuck what you just said sounds logical but it’s not being done right now while we are being told about demand so that leads me to believe greed is what’s driving this issue. I think gas prices need to be regulated and I will take the Lozen route by saying it’s not my job to tell you how gas prices should be regulated. Cable prices were crazy so some cities,etc regulate cable prices because the market could not correct the situation because in a lot of places you only had one cable company, anyway gas companies have a monopoly and most monopolies need to be regulated because just sheer greed is just too tempting.

By kimberly

April 28, 2008 5:16 PM | Link to this

Archie, we reduced our water consumption and as a result, prices will increase soon because the good folks who bring us water have fixed expenses. More people than ever before want oil and gas now, so the prices keep increasing.

Bringing prices down by reducing demand isn’t going to work. The Saudis are awfully fond of our dough and our dependence on them. IMO, what we need are true, job-creating, energy-saving American technological initiatives. You know, where we spend our efforts and resources developing new modes of fuel and transit and greener technologies instead of trying to suppress them on behalf of the oil and auto industries, or spending millions on the “global warming isn’t real” marketing campaigns (the cost for which corporations pass along to consumers). But hey, putting Americans to work IN AMERICA doing things that will actually benefit us in the future is a “liberal” idea that might keep some CEO from buying a new yacht next year with the bonus he got for cutting labor costs; therefore, 50 million “conservative” Americans will have none of it when they go to vote in November.

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By JokesOn

April 29, 2008 8:05 AM | Link to this

Dog,

Sorry, but was to busy to even take five to get that url for you. Here it is:

PBS Report Shows Universal Health Care Systems Working Abroad A “Frontline” report on PBS examines the universal health care plans of five countries—Britain, Japan, Germany, Taiwan and Switzerland—and shows that in each country “insurance premiums are significantly lower than those in America (in Britain there are none), and the waiting time to see a doctor is either tolerable (in Britain) or nonexistent,” reports the New York Times.

http://covertheuninsured.org/news/index.php?NewsID=20975

By lovelyliz

April 29, 2008 8:37 AM | Link to this

The media is supposed to question everything even economic data.

By lovelyliz

April 29, 2008 8:51 AM | Link to this

Whether someone believes we are in a recession is influenced more by their idividual situtation that anything you hear from the normally conservative buisness news anyway.

Telling someone whose salary is not keeping up with inflation, who’s spending 40% more for a gallon os gas than they were a year ago, ditto on their grocery and utility bills, whose spouse as laid off 8 month ago from a good paying job with benefits only to take work 6 months later that p[ays hourly, pporlu with little or no benefits, etc. that there is no real inflation, no recession and the economy is going well, is a moot point.

Consumer confidence is determined more by their own circumstances than it is by Wall Street.

By lovelyliz

April 29, 2008 8:53 AM | Link to this

Quoting the Heritage Foundation to promote economic reality is like using the National Enquirer as source on the morality of the country.

By USinUK

April 29, 2008 9:08 AM | Link to this

Truth -

What’s the deal with medical malpractice in the UK? Can a patient sue the doctor over there?

They’ve been able to since 1990 - as well they should. It’s estimated that there are 30K injuries and deaths a year due to mistakes made by doctors and nurses. (BTW - they applied the same study and got similar results to US hospitals, so this isn’t an issue of nationalized health care, but human error).

ANYhoo … medmal isn’t the problem with insurance costs - I’m going to give you a VERY brief primer on How Insurance Companies Work to explain why.

As you know, insurance companies receive premiums - for XX amount of dollars per month, you receive YY amount of coverage (for your boat, your house, your health, etc). Insurance companies then take that money and invest it - that’s their primary way of making money. They can’t just put it all on black and hope to win big —insurance companies are heavily regulated and are required to invest a lot of it in fixed income securites (bonds) so that there is a guaranteed return. Also, because most insurance companies are listed, they are also required to forecast their revenues each quarter.

Commercial break:

Bonds - low yield means high prices … high prices means an increased value of your assets (in other words, you bought a bond for $10 - now increased demand for that bond has driven the price up to $15, so your asset is worth 50% more). Also, since bonds are a guaranteed investment, they are a “safe harbor” when the equity market goes south.

Back to our regularly scheduled program:

A lot of insurance companies did really well in the bond markets in the early 1990s and set premiums too low (way to go, actuaries) - as the bond market started to go south with more and more investors turning to equities in the late 1990s, insurance companies needed to hike their premiums a LOT to make up the difference. Additionally, lot of companies have gotten out of the medmal business all together, thus reducing the competitiveness of the market.

So … all that to say … yes, medical malpractice lawsuits are out there and they have an impact on the premiums doctors have to pay. However, medmal lawsuits have only a minor impact when compared to the other market forces mentioned above.

By Gandalf, the Grey

April 29, 2008 9:19 AM | Link to this

Thinking there is a recession brings on a recession. Be careful what you wish for. When people stop spending, this causes an economic downturn. DUH!

By USinUK

April 29, 2008 9:38 AM | Link to this

chuck -

How many years did the Republicans control congress BEFORE that occurred? NONE. They can be as disgusted as they like. IF however, they want us to LEAVE, they’ll never win another election. It’s a relatively strong coalition because most of us as “Social Conservatives” are also FISCAL conservatives. It’s called the Reagan Revolution. Deal with it, because if we ever do get disgusted enough with the Republican party and leave, they can prepare to be permanent back benchers.

okay … taking your post one point at a time:

1) Republicans gained control of Congress in 1994 - prior to that, they were in the wilderness since 1954. That was the Gingrich Revolution, not the Reagan Revolution - which was equal parts Christian Coalition and Contract with America.

2) The Regan Revolution was partly attributed to Jerry Falwell’s Moral Majority movement. However, given that Carter’s approval rating was 34% when he left office, I could have run for president and won. So, the MM may have helped, but the Iranian hostages did more to sweep Uncle Ronnie into office than Jerry Falwell did.

3) Fiscal conservatives??? you’re kidding me, right??? You don’t want to REDUCE the amount of money that government spends, you just want it to go to different people - especially churches and religious organizations. Not to mention, do I need to point out the explosion of the federal deficit when BOTH Uncle Ronnie and Baby Bush have been in office??

4) As far as your “back bencher” comment - I have two words for you: Mike. Huckabee. If the Christian Coalition was anywhere near as strong as you like to think it is, I don’t think we’d be talking about McCain as the frontrunner right now, would we? Dr. Dobson et al know that, if they and the GOP part ways, it will be the Christian Coalition movement that will be the backbenchers, not the centrists.

By kimberly

April 29, 2008 9:45 AM | Link to this

Thanks Gandalf! DUH! You really cleared that up. Just keep spending. Got it. Looks like we HAVE been spending, though! According to this morning’s news:

Shell, the world’s No. 2 non government-controlled oil company by market capitalization, said net income, excluding unrealized gains from changes in inventory values, rose 12 percent to a record $7.8 billion. Industry No. 3 BP said profits, calculated on the same basis, rose 48 percent to $6.6 billion.

The money sure isn’t sitting in our pockets!! Wonder why all that spending hasn’t been stimulating the economy? Care to enlighten us, Sparky?

By chuck

April 29, 2008 9:52 AM | Link to this

More people than ever before want oil and gas now, so the prices keep increasing.

Bringing prices down by reducing demand isn’t going to work.

Kimberly, don’t you think these statements you made are incongruos? Of course, lowering demand will decrease prices. That’s capitalism in a nutshell. The reason it doesn’t work with water rates is because water departments are either governmental or quasi-governmental. They do have fixed costs to a degree and that is why they ask for increases when water use drops. That does not apply to a non-monopolistic market system. If demand drops for gasoline, prices will come down.

If people would listen to me and spread this idea nation-wide, we could solve this problem in a month. We do not have to necessarily lower our consumption of gasoline to accomplish a reduction in the price. What we need to do is stop buying gasoline from the 3 largest oil companies, because in this market they set the price. The 3 largest in order are Exxon-Mobil, Conoco-Phillips, and Chevron-Texaco.

I used to buy Chevron exclusively, but I have put that card in the back of my wallet and almost never use it. I am buying all of my gas at independents or mom and pops and paying cash. If we ALL did this, demand overall would stay the same, but appear to go down. I believe that the big three would then force prices down to move inventory. This idea is not original to me, but I thought it was a good one, so I am passing it on. We should also absolutely refuse to buy Ethanol.

I agree with you that we should be working on alternative fuels, however, we need to keep the government completely out of it. It should be market driven. Here’s why. Look at Ethanol. Ethanol is the biggest government boondoggle of this century so far. It was pushed by big agricultural companies as a way to drive up prices for grains. It actually takes 1 and a quarter gallons of REGULAR GASOLINE to produce 1 gallon of Ethanol. At the same time, corn that was going to feed cattle and pigs is going into ethanol. This causes increased food costs for dairy farmers, beef farmers etc and has now pushed the cost of beef, pork, chicken and milk through the roof. A gallon of milk costs more than a gallon of Diesel now. That’s ridiculous.

By Truth

April 29, 2008 9:57 AM | Link to this

USinUK

Thanks. I didn’t want to start a debate about it. I as just curious.

By El Perro

April 29, 2008 10:02 AM | Link to this

Sorry, but was to busy to even take five to get that url for you. Here it is:

Thanks, JokesOn. When I have some time this AM, I’ll look the article over. Right away, however, I’m struck by the comment that “insurance premiums are significantly lower than those in America (in Britain there are none), and the waiting time to see a doctor is either tolerable (in Britain) or nonexistent*

The problem I see here is that insurance premiums in the US are voluntary, whereas they aren’t in countries which employ “universal health care”. As such, medical consumers like myself can choose not to purchase deluxe insurance policies, and can choose to “self-insure” as I do. As I’ve stated many times, my lifetime medical expenses are only a few thousand dollars. As such, I’m paying way less for my medical care than anyone in the 5 countries mentioned. In addition, I always bargain hard when I do visit health care providers and always get good prices for services. Maybe my personal choice to not insure wouldn’t work well for everyone, but I save thousands of $$ every year by not purchasing health insurance. Instead, I’m very careful with my health, which, to me, is the optimum solution.

By USinUK

April 29, 2008 10:06 AM | Link to this

Truth -

Thanks. I didn’t want to start a debate about it. I as just curious.

ah. haha … that’s what’s known as “overanswering”, I guess :-)

By El Perro

April 29, 2008 10:09 AM | Link to this

A lot of insurance companies did really well in the bond markets in the early 1990s and set premiums too low (way to go, actuaries) - as the bond market started to go south with more and more investors turning to equities in the late 1990s, insurance companies needed to hike their premiums a LOT to make up the difference. Additionally, lot of companies have gotten out of the medmal business all together, thus reducing the competitiveness of the market.

The situation over on the health insurance side has been much more grim over the past 20 years, USinUK. No matter how high the actuaries estimated the costs to be for a given year, the final costs were always far higher, causing most insurance companies to lose their shirts on health insurance. That’s what led directly to “managed care”. IMO, the reason for this was two-fold: (1) Too many unnecessary tests and procedures being performed (2) Greedy doctors charging way too much for their services. IMO, the nature of the “third-party payor system” facilitated the whole debacle. That’s why I’ve always avoided buying into the system and have preferred to pay for my own health care out-of-pocket. Why do you want to take that choice away from me????

By chuck

April 29, 2008 10:14 AM | Link to this

LIZ, you said:

Telling someone whose salary is not keeping up with inflation, who’s spending 40% more for a gallon os gas than they were a year ago, ditto on their grocery and utility bills, whose spouse as laid off 8 month ago from a good paying job with benefits only to take work 6 months later that p[ays hourly, pporlu with little or no benefits, etc. that there is no real inflation, no recession and the economy is going well, is a moot point.

I’m not saying that those individual cases don’t matter, but it certainly does not make the declaration or NONdeclaration of a recession a moot point. EVERY YEAR, after we finish with standardized testing, I teach a short unit on personal finance. I talk to my students about credit cards, saving for “a rainy day”, giving to charity, investing (though I have limited knowledge in this particular area), and the difference between “NEEDS” and “wants”. You would be amazed at the attitudes they have toward debt. Most of them think NOTHING is wrong with just walking away from debt and stiffing the company that loaned it to them. Most often they say something like, “The banks have plenty of money.” or something along those lines.

The case description that you gave us is sad, assuming it is not a hypothetical, but where is THEIR responsibility for the mess they are in? Remember the story of the ant and the grasshopper? I use that with my 8th graders when I talk about saving. When my wife and I were looking for our first house to purchase, our debt ratio was not great. I took a second job for a few months and she worked some overtime in her job and we paid off the debt so we could buy a house. Sometimes you just have to suck it up and work harder. We have “safety nets”. It may mean that the people you described have to move to a smaller home or a less expensive neighborhood. They may have to cut back to one car. Heck, they might have to walk to work. The point is, that they will get by if they work at it. It isn’t pleasant, but it’s LIFE.

By USinUK

April 29, 2008 10:18 AM | Link to this

El P -

Why do you want to take that choice away from me????

cuz I hate your shoes. ;-)

Greedy doctors charging way too much for their services.

while doctors do well pay-wise, they also have medmal premiums and college loans that would make me poop my pants twice on a daily basis.

By kimberly

April 29, 2008 10:24 AM | Link to this

Chuck, I appreciate your logical breakdown and agree with you that Ethanol is likely NOT the way to go. An alternative idea needs more than just being alternative to make it viable.

However, the problem with putting “capitalism in a nutshell” is that the nutshell does not encompass all the factors in play. If this free market you “conservative Christians” inexplicably worship actually worked, then so many Americans wouldn’t be squeezed right now. (It will be a “free market” when small businesses actually have a shot at competing against megalo-corps in their own communities, and having a pre-existing medical condition doesn’t prevent a hard-working citizen from becoming a good ol’ American entrepreneur, IMO.)

I stand by my assertion that gas prices will not come down in the foreseeable future simply because we choose to drive less, buy Venzuelan gas, or take mass transit. Our actions here will not dent the rising demand in China and other parts of Asia, nor the giddy bliss of those experiencing record profits. Prices MIGHT come down in 20 years if we’ve successfully migrated off our oil dependence. Or maybe you’ll get a $0.20/gal relief next year and think we’ve got it good again. (It’s called PR…)

As for leaving government out of the initiatives to develop alternative fuels: If that’s such a great idea, please write to your representatives and tell them to IMMEDIATELY halt all government subsidies and tax breaks (corporate welfare, anyone?), and special land-use deals to each and every oil company operating or selling their products in the United States right now.

I don’t know where y’all get the delusion that somehow the government isn’t ALREADY functioning to aid certain economic sectors at the expense of others. Hello? Why not give the tax incentives to companies who invest in America’s future, instead of loopholes to those who outsource our jobs and make us dependent on imports for almost everything?

By JokesOn

April 29, 2008 10:26 AM | Link to this

Maybe my personal choice to not insure wouldn’t work well for everyone, but I save thousands of $$ every year by not purchasing health insurance. Instead, I’m very careful with my health, which, to me, is the optimum solution.

Be honest, dog. That would not work for 99.99999% of people in america. You are not even counting the half that are woman who have more of a need for regular visits or taking into account that our infant mortality rate is sickening for a “civilized” society.

Have call that position quite selfish man.

By lyrazel

April 29, 2008 10:31 AM | Link to this

But loveleyliz isn’t the Natl. Inquirer actually reflective of American culture? Not that we read it, of course, but reflects the cult of celebrity Americans embrace (including our Anglophile tendencies toward English monarchs) and thrive to destroy. Clearly American behavior is reflected in its pages—sensationalistic voyeurism dominates news and witnesses our dumbing down of arts & sciences & presidential campaigns. Right now how many Americans can name a celebrity—but how many bandy the names of a city council member, can name their state senators (who have not had their peccadilloes exposed)? I think the Natl. Inquirer is actually a good measure of our society—sad as that is.

As for the other Telling someone whose salary is not keeping up with inflation, who’s spending 40% more for a gallon of gas than they were a year ago, ditto on their grocery and utility bills, whose spouse as laid off 8 month ago from a good paying job with benefits only to take work 6 months later that pays hourly, with little or no benefits, etc. that there is no real inflation, no recession and the economy is going well, is a moot point is a very good point. Yet it also begs the question of why Americans are actually in this position? Why did so many stand so quietly as corporations pulled business overseas in the 80s & 90s (because we could get cheaper product)? Reliance on cheap goods from overseas is great but once one factor changes the cost goes up=sadly our culture is waking up to the hangover truth we have become dependent on other nations to clothe, feed and medicate us. Other nations finance our wars so we did not have to be inconvenienced by higher taxes, other nations banks bought our bad unsecured loans. With gas going up 40% how many Americans are getting OUT of their cars? Now it seems we are buying smaller cars—but not investing in national public transportation. Truckers are complaining the cost of diesel fuel is ruining their business but we have railroads that could transport 5x the amount of goods cheaper. Americans have this myth of entitlement to car, home, prosperity—its not reality.

By El Perro

April 29, 2008 10:35 AM | Link to this

Kimberly, don’t you think these statements you made are incongruos? Of course, lowering demand will decrease prices. That’s capitalism in a nutshell.

chuck—You beat me to the punch this AM regarding kimberly’s muddled, emotion-filled post yesterday at 5:16 PM. For starters, both she and Archie need to learn how to distinguish between true monopolies like local water companies and cable providers, and competitive industries like petroleum companies. I will say that your response was more diplomatic than mine would have been. Continuing the analysis:

IMO, what we need are true, job-creating, energy-saving American technological initiatives. You know, where we spend our efforts and resources developing new modes of fuel and transit and greener technologies instead of trying to suppress them on behalf of the oil and auto industries,

Please show me even one instance in which a viable, cost-effective technology was “suppressed” on behalf of the oil and auto industries. Do you mean public transportation, like MARTA or AMTRAK, both of which lose millions of dollars every year and require taxpayer subsidies?? The bottom line is that most people find public transportation to be time-consuming and inconvenient in terms of getting you where you want to go, and prefer to drive. If gas prices get high enough, more people WILL use MARTA and AMTRAK. Or perhaps you’re referring to the “urban myth” that auto manufacturers actually have the ability to produce cars which get 125 mpg, but choose not to??

or spending millions on the “global warming isn’t real” marketing campaigns (the cost for which corporations pass along to consumers).

Another big “HUH?” Please name one company which has spent millions on ANY marketing campaign denying that surface temperatures of the Earth have shown an upward trend the past twenty years. The FACT is that “global warming” is a far more complex issue than dishonest idiots like Al Gore will ever know about. For instance, the most potent atmospheric gas which raises the temperature on Earth is methane, and NOT CO2. Furthermore, methane is a naturally occurring gas, a huge amount coming from farm animals. The biggest untold story about methane is that the ocean floor is lined with methane-containing compounds. If that is ever released, we’ll definitely be toast.

But hey, putting Americans to work IN AMERICA doing things that will actually benefit us in the future is a “liberal” idea that might keep some CEO from buying a new yacht next year with the bonus he got for cutting labor costs; therefore, 50 million “conservative” Americans will have none of it when they go to vote in November.

In an earlier post, you claimed to be some sort of centrist who abhors the “us vs. them” mentality and only wishes to find common ground which we all can agree upon. If this statement isn’t simply mindless demonization of “50 million conservative Americans”, then I’m Barack Obama.

As much as I care for you as a person, your political views are bunk. Can you meet my challenge yesterday to actually engage in some intelligent debate this week, and avoid the finger-pointing rants??

By USinUK

April 29, 2008 10:39 AM | Link to this

Kimberly -

TESTIFY!!!

By El Perro

April 29, 2008 10:47 AM | Link to this

As for leaving government out of the initiatives to develop alternative fuels: If that’s such a great idea, please write to your representatives and tell them to IMMEDIATELY halt all government subsidies and tax breaks (corporate welfare, anyone?), and special land-use deals to each and every oil company operating or selling their products in the United States right now.

I am with you on that one, kimberly. If you study the History of Science and scientific invention, virtually EVERY true technological breakthrough came from an individual working on their own accord ala Thomas Edison. And what drives these people?? In a word, greed. When an individual stands to profit individually from their efforts, they work a lot harder than any government paid hack. A perfect example occurred recently in the publication of a complete human genome. One man, working on his own, published a copy of a complete human genome (his own, BTW) before the highly publicized, well-funded Human Genome Project could. Similarly, a retired radio executive recently discovered a promising new treatment for treating cancer using radio waves COMPLETELY ON HIS OWN.

SO go ahead and slam greed all you want, it’s what drives progress. One day, when gas prices reach about $9.00 per gallon, I expect lots of entrepreneurs to come out of the woodwork and come up with some real solutions long before any NSA funded “scientific” ho ever does. In fact, there is already a working car which operates on natural gas, which burns about 99% cleaner than regular petro cars.

By kimberly

April 29, 2008 10:49 AM | Link to this

Again, muttface, I don’t care what you think of me, and frankly, that you keep addressing me and and making personal references to and about me is creepy. (Function: adjective Inflected Form(s): creep·i·er; creep·i·est 1: producing a nervous shivery apprehension ; also : eerie 2: of, relating to, or being a creep : annoyingly unpleasant) I’d ask what your freaking problem is, but then you might answer, and I don’t really care.

Yeah, I do get that I have one water company from which to choose and a handful of oil companies. Thanks for that. But cutting back isn’t going to bring prices down, IMO. If you cut way back, and six months from now you can show that your cutting back caused prices to go down, then say, “Hey what’s-her face was wrong, wasn’t she?”

(To anyone who thought I was representing myself as a highly-paid economics expert, I apologize. I was just stating my opinions and observations, by which I stand. Thanks.)

By Archie

April 29, 2008 10:58 AM | Link to this

Kimberly,Chuck, my point yesterday about Chuck’s idea of rationing was not that it would reduce prices but that the idea of rationing makes sense if there is a problem with supply and demand. Now I don’t believe there is a shortage and I believe we are simply dealing with greed. When a company earns record profits,i.e. 40 billion dollars in profit they ain’t strugglin’ with supply and demand. At least Chuck is trying to think beyond just being a dittohead for some rich people. He actually thought about solutions versus just singing the party line. I think you have to take the greed temptation out of the hands of the oil companies and straight out regulate them where any increase would have to be approved by a commission. I basically, as you can tell,do not believe in the integrity of some business people. I used to work for a company where the executives lied about profits and manipulated quarters,etc. in order to drive the stock price. Of course the executives were fined so I know businessmen will straight out lie and continue with it until someone does something about it.

What we need to do is stop buying gasoline from the 3 largest oil companies, because in this market they set the price. The 3 largest in order are Exxon-Mobil, Conoco-Phillips, and Chevron-Texaco. I have heard this before but I don’t think it will work because so many people don’t listen or keep up with the news but at least Chuck is trying to think.

By El Perro

April 29, 2008 10:58 AM | Link to this

Be honest, dog. That would not work for 99.99999% of people in america. You are not even counting the half that are woman who have more of a need for regular visits or taking into account that our infant mortality rate is sickening for a “civilized” society.

I have to disagree with you on that one, JokesOn. For the average person, women included, their typical annual outlay on medical care is far below what they are paying in insurance premiums, and would be even lower if doctors were more honest. It’s the old “80-20” rule. About 20% of patients are using 80% of medical resources. As I’ve stated before, the only legitimate use of medical insurance is insurance against a catastrophic loss, like heart disease of cancer. Including routine doctor’s visits does nothing more than add an extra administrative layer to the process.

Have call that position quite selfish man.

Well, I’m a selfish person, as are all people, by definition. I do, however, believe in “enlightened selfishness”. I challenge you to find even one person in this world who can honestly say that I ever cheated them

By Truth

April 29, 2008 11:00 AM | Link to this

USinUK

I am going to throw this out there and run like crazy. (I actually really need to get to work)

When this Rev. Wright issue started, I told you that Obama would not have a chance unless he distanced himself from Wright.

Obama was crippled by Wright when ABC exposed those racist and anti-American sermons. Now he is back and apparently is ready to perform the death blow.

I watched ABC News last night. As you know, I have been part of the media for almost 30 years. I understand what bias is. That is why I have never denied that FOX was bias, but I also know that every single news organization is also bias in one way or another.

The wording of the stories about OBama vs. Clinton were glaring. ABC is now a Clinton attack machine. I hate to say I told you so (I really don’t hate it), but Obama is in serious trouble. Wright’s interview with PBS and his appearance in front of the Washington Press Club have done an incredible amount of damage. Wright is now saying that if anyone disagrees with him, they disagree with ALL African-Americans. He is scaring the crap out of a lot of White people.

So my question to you is: why is he doing this? He can’t be a stupid man and has gained the power he has. He HAS to know the damage he has done and he HAS to know the damage he is continuing to do.

My friend that was with me at Morehouse when we heard some of Wright’s speech is a huge Obama supporter. He is crushed. He is pretty sure tha Wright is being paid off by either the Republicans or by the Clintons. I personally think that Wright is just getting off on knowing that he is affecting a National Election. His ego has to be completely out of control.

Just wanted to know what you thought about all of this. (Since we are the people to watch for new topics here according to Andrea)

By El Perro

April 29, 2008 11:11 AM | Link to this

that you keep addressing me and and making personal references to and about me is creepy

Ok, I’ll do my best to forget about my first year on the blog when you went out of your way to make cruel personal comments toward me at every opportunity.

If you cut way back, and six months from now you can show that your cutting back caused prices to go down, then say, “Hey what’s-her face was wrong, wasn’t she?”

I can’t predict the future better than anyone else, but I know for sure that history has always shown free-market capitalism to be the only way to go. Socialism sounds great on paper, but never works. As such, I’m sticking with free-market capitalism.

BTW, MY prediction about gas prices is that we haven’t seen anything yet. I won’t be shocked to see $9.00 per gallon in a few years, if not sooner. We had nearly a “free ride” here in America the past 50 years or so regarding gas prices simply because 99% of the rest of the world’s population couldn’t afford to buy a car. With a billion Chinese potential car buyers competing for the same gas as us, we’ve got some major problems looming.

By snake

April 29, 2008 11:19 AM | Link to this

By El Perro

April 29, 2008 11:19 AM | Link to this

I think you have to take the greed temptation out of the hands of the oil companies and straight out regulate them where any increase would have to be approved by a commission.

In a nutshell, Archie, what you are proposing is pure socialism. Once again, it sounds good on paper, but never works in the real world. I’m sticking with capitalism.

So my question to you is: why is he doing this? He can’t be a stupid man and has gained the power he has. He HAS to know the damage he has done and he HAS to know the damage he is continuing to do.

New Truth—I completely agree with you that Wright is killing Obama right now. If Obama doesn’t come out with a total repudiation of Wright’s position soon, he’s going to have no chance in the general election, that is assuming the Clinton political machine doesn’t pull off some last-minute shenanigans regarding the “Super Delegates”. As for Wright’s motivation, I don’t think he’s being paid off by Clinton or McCain. I think it’s pure ego and love of the spotlight which is driving him. Of course, the media is in full complicity. Personally, I don’t give a rat’s a* what the guy thinks about anything since he’s not running for office.

By USinUK

April 29, 2008 11:23 AM | Link to this

Truth -

Obama was crippled by Wright when ABC exposed those racist and anti-American sermons. Now he is back and apparently is ready to perform the death blow.

Crippled? well, the WSJ doesn’t seem to see it that way: http://online.wsj.com/article/SB120942916625251325.html?mod=googlenews_wsj

So my question to you is: why is he doing this? He can’t be a stupid man and has gained the power he has. He HAS to know the damage he has done and he HAS to know the damage he is continuing to do

Four little words: Fifteen. Minutes. Of. Fame. The last couple of months have given him greater outreach than the last couple of decades - of course he’s going to grab this pony and ride it as long as he can. His loyalty is to himself and to expanding his congregation - think of this as a membership drive.

As far as Obama goes, he said it best in his press conference yesterday, “I think, certainly, what the last three days indicate is that we’re not coordinating with him” … talk about an understatement!

By Truth

April 29, 2008 11:24 AM | Link to this

Archie

Good post. But you have to stop thinking it is Rich people Vs. poor people. The vast majority of Republicans are not rich.

You also need to stop thinking that it is only the Republicans that are in bed with big oil. Just look at who controls Congress and look at how over the last 18 months, the prices have gone up well over 30%, the largest increase in history.

It is going to take regulating the oil companies, but Carter was the last president that pushed this. Neither party is going to do that.

I don’t know what the answer is, but the oil companies are not going to stop raising prices and we have put a bunch of criminals and crooks in Washington. And if you think the democrats are any less dishonest, you are out of your mind.

By USinUK

April 29, 2008 11:25 AM | Link to this

El P -

BTW, MY prediction about gas prices is that we haven’t seen anything yet. I won’t be shocked to see $9.00 per gallon in a few years, if not sooner. We had nearly a “free ride” here in America the past 50 years or so regarding gas prices simply because 99% of the rest of the world’s population couldn’t afford to buy a car. With a billion Chinese potential car buyers competing for the same gas as us, we’ve got some major problems looming.

I think you’re right on the money, my friend.

By USinUK

April 29, 2008 11:27 AM | Link to this

El P -

If Obama doesn’t come out with a total repudiation of Wright’s position soon, he’s going to have no chance in the general election, that is assuming the Clinton political machine doesn’t pull off some last-minute shenanigans regarding the “Super Delegates”.

he did - yesterday: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/04/28/AR2008042800446.html?hpid=topnews

By kimberly

April 29, 2008 11:30 AM | Link to this

Archie, well said. I’ve also witnessed the shady, lying behavior of employers, and was grateful for the first opportunity to get away from them and their nasty karma. To some, however, greed is a virtue. (Different people, different value systems.)

De-regulation in the name of “freedom” is a sham. As I explained the natural gas de-regulation in Georgia to a Republican in another state: They sold it with the idea it would lead to more competition and thus better prices and service for everyone. She said, “Well, why didn’t it work that way?” Because it was never intended to! It was a sham the gas execs used to gouge us, which they did the following January. We were getting the same gas from the same source through the same pipes, but getting jacked all over the place while the instigators of the plan made a big score and than closed up most of their phony billing companies they established, for which failing was built into the plan, and then wrote those off as losses. Without regulation, predators roam the economy at will, and claim legality as defense for screwing anyone and everyone. When you object, they call you a “socialist.” Whatever. Values really are subjective, I guess.

By chuck

April 29, 2008 11:34 AM | Link to this

Truth, this statement was, I think close to the mark:

I personally think that Wright is just getting off on knowing that he is affecting a National Election. His ego has to be completely out of control.

I would alter it a bit though. Think about how Wright makes his money. He gets Black people to come in and buy into the idea that “Whitey is keeping me down.” What happens to that idea if Obama is elected?

By Lyrazel

April 29, 2008 11:41 AM | Link to this

USinUK, the press promotes the bad readily because we Americans love to destroy our golden child. Its telling how much influence people want of someone else’s gains—winners of lotteries complain they have more relatives than before—so if Obama was to win Wright stands to gain. The more sensational Wright can become (now with the coverage he is getting) the more will flock to his church just out of curiosity thus donations will increase. If Obama looses—Wright still has notoriety and one must admit notoriety in a pulpit is a $$$$$ situation. I see a tele-evangelist in the making but I think the Obama family will never enter that church again (which is quite sad in a spiritual sense) nor will Wright become the on call minister like Billy Graham was to past presidents.

By Truth

April 29, 2008 11:41 AM | Link to this

Chuck

“Whitey is keeping me down.” What happens to that idea if Obama is elected?

I hate to admit it, but that is a good point.

By Archie

April 29, 2008 11:42 AM | Link to this

Obama was crippled by Wright when ABC exposed those racist and anti-American sermons. Now he is back and apparently is ready to perform the death blow. There is nothing racist about Rev Wright. I saw the PBS special. He is not anti-american as he served six years in the Marines. How many years did Hannity serve? none. Wright is now saying that if anyone disagrees with him, they disagree with ALL African-Americans. He is scaring the crap out of a lot of White people. He said there is an attack on the black church not a disagreement with all African-Americans and he is only scaring white folk that are racist. Father Pfleger does not have a problem with Rev Wright and numerous whites have come up big to defend Rev Wright and I think some whites have done a better job of defending Wright than any black leader. Rev Wright said truthfully that he is not a politician and also what he said about “God damn America” has been said by white liberals over and over and it’s been said in the black church based on the criteria Wright used over and over. Rev Wright is using his first amendment right to defend himself and anybody that ties this to Obama wasn’t going to vote for Obama in the first place.

We need to discuss gas prices and the blog topic because it’s a pretty good one. I don’t agree with Shanti but the topic is a good one and also I ask this of Andrea and Shanti, why is there no warning or disclaimer about posting race-baiting type commentary?

By El Perro

April 29, 2008 11:45 AM | Link to this

I think you’re right on the money, my friend.

Thanks for the shout, USinUK. IMO, the “car culture” is on the way out, both here in America and abroad. From a health care standpoint, the greatest cause of mortality for young people is car accidents. In addition, we can’t simply keep polluting the environment and expect no deleterious consequences (NOT global warming in particular). I’ve read before that PCBs (polychlorinated biphenyls) have been found in the ice of Antarctica 1 mile down. Very scary stuff to me.

It looks like our best hope is for the perfection of hydrogen fusion as an energy source. The ocean is full of tritium (heavy water) which is the fuel source.

he did - yesterday:

Though I’m voting for McCain, I actually like Obama, and hate to see him dragged down by his former pastor. No matter who wins the next election, I think we’re in for some tough economic times, however.

By Truth

April 29, 2008 11:49 AM | Link to this

USinUK

I have a hard time believing that the Clintons would spend that much money with no hope in sight (pardon the pun).

Obama is damaged and while he may still win the nomination, I have a hard time seeing centrists choosing him over McCain after all of this. The vast majority of Centrists are white and the more this is made an issue of race (which is exactly what Wright is doing) the more of them will vote on the issue of race.

By USinUK

April 29, 2008 11:50 AM | Link to this

Lyra -

The more sensational Wright can become (now with the coverage he is getting) the more will flock to his church just out of curiosity thus donations will increase

that’s why I think this is just a membership drive …

By El Perro

April 29, 2008 11:53 AM | Link to this

We were getting the same gas from the same source through the same pipes, but getting jacked all over the place while the instigators of the plan made a big score and than closed up most of their phony billing companies they established, for which failing was built into the plan, and then wrote those off as losses. Without regulation, predators roam the economy at will, and claim legality as defense for screwing anyone and everyone. When you object, they call you a “socialist.” Whatever. Values really are subjective, I guess.

Sorry, whatever-your-name-is, you’re once again making an invalid comparison. You are absolutely correct in your assessment of the natural gas “market”. Because there is only one set of pipelines, it’s not really a free market. Petroleum IS a different case, however. There actually is competition, at least nominally at this point following the consolidation of the various petro companies, as chuck alluded to earlier.

No one is for dishonesty on either side of the political aisle. The question is simply do you believe in free market enterprise, or not? Greed in and of itself is not a bad trait. It’s what makes us get out of bed in the morning and keep going. Greed + illegal tactics IS a big problem, as you point out. OK?

By lyingsnake

April 29, 2008 11:58 AM | Link to this

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By USinUK

April 29, 2008 12:05 PM | Link to this

El P -

No matter who wins the next election, I think we’re in for some tough economic times, however.

man, you’ve got that right … at least for the rest of this year … things are expected to start picking up in 2009. However, this gov’t has a deficit bigger than the great outdoors and needs to start decreasing it.

the “car culture” is on the way out, both here in America and abroad

okay, I’ll bite. how in the world do you think that car culture in America is on its way out?? I’m not seeing the GA state legislature talking about commuter rail or increased bus service. All I’m seeing is “add more lanes!!”

on a side note, I laughed out loud at chuck’s “Heck, they might have to walk to work.” … does ANYONE on this blog work within walking distance of their home? and how many people live within walking distance of a bus stop?

It looks like our best hope is for the perfection of hydrogen fusion as an energy source.

One of the car programs here in the UK featured a hydrogen cell prototype (can’t remember if it was Honda or Ford) … OH. MY. GOD. I. WANT. ONE!!! Talk about the coolest thing on 4 wheels - the controls are all on the wheel - no pedals - and the wheel could move from left-hand drive to right-hand drive (very convenient for those of us who take the chunnel over to Europe). But the coolest of all?? The engine and computer were all in the base of the car which could be detached from the chassis - SO, you could have a pick-up truck one day to tote things around and an SUV the next to pick up your family from the airport. oh, yeah, it was way cool.

By El Perro

April 29, 2008 12:06 PM | Link to this

I don’t agree with Shanti but the topic is a good one and also I ask this of Andrea and Shanti, why is there no warning or disclaimer about posting race-baiting type commentary?

Archie, I deeply respect the fact that “African-Americans” have certainly faced more challenges than “European-Americans” in the history of the US. However, racism is racism, pure and simple. For instance, when you refer to the “black church”, to me that is a racist reference in and of itself. If I started a church and called it a “white church”, the news media would be all over it. Yet, Rev. Wright, and now you, can openly refer to a church as being a “black church” with no comment. Doesn’t this strike you as a double standard??

also what he said about “God damn America” has been said by white liberals over and over

I won’t disagree with you about that, Archie. Maybe some of your fellow “war protesters” should consider that when they whine about being labeled “unpatriotic”. Opposing the war in Iraq, in and of itself, is not unpatriotic. However, when you couple said opposition with other broad, sweeping statement slamming America, expect some backlash. Are you listening, whatever-your-name-is?

By Archie

April 29, 2008 12:08 PM | Link to this

Think about how Wright makes his money. He gets Black people to come in and buy into the idea that “Whitey is keeping me down.” That’s not true Chuck because that denomination is an integrated one and his church is now and was always intended to be integrated.

Kimberly, I loved your 11:30 am post, you get it. The thing is here in South Carolina any increase by SCE&G has to approved by a commission but check this out almost all requests for an increase get approved so there is no socialism involved. Come on El Perro, if you can’t respond with an intelligent response just leave it alone. I know you can because you have sometimes!! Come on don’t respond with labels and name-calling and wait a few hours before you post because it shows you’re reading and considering other folk’s opinions. Hey man that’s all this is about.

By USinUK

April 29, 2008 12:12 PM | Link to this

Truth -

I have a hard time believing that the Clintons would spend that much money with no hope in sight (pardon the pun).

first of all, don’t forget she started the race as a favorite, and it’s not like she’s that far behind him in the delegate count.

Obama is damaged and while he may still win the nomination, I have a hard time seeing centrists choosing him over McCain after all of this. The vast majority of Centrists are white and the more this is made an issue of race (which is exactly what Wright is doing) the more of them will vote on the issue of race.

well, the vast majority of centrists may be white, but they’re also pro-choice (which McCain is most definitely NOT) and they are definitely looking for a change from the Bush Administration - which McCain is not offering.

By El Perro

April 29, 2008 12:25 PM | Link to this

Come on El Perro, if you can’t respond with an intelligent response just leave it alone. I know you can because you have sometimes!! Come on don’t respond with labels and name-calling and wait a few hours before you post because it shows you’re reading and considering other folk’s opinions. Hey man that’s all this is about.

Archie, although many of my posts are more or less general commentaries and not directed at any one individual, the rest of my posts are direct responses to other’s posts. See my 12:06 post directed specifically to you for proof. The fact is that I read each and every single post on this blog, and give each one equal respect and consideration. Unlike a lot of the “liberal” bloggers, I’ve NEVER tried to stop anyone from posting.

As far as labeling people and name-calling, give me a break. you’ve never criticized even ONE liberal poster for their incessant name-calling. Is that just one more of your double standards??

By El Perro

April 29, 2008 12:33 PM | Link to this

okay, I’ll bite. how in the world do you think that car culture in America is on its way out?? I’m not seeing the GA state legislature talking about commuter rail or increased bus service. All I’m seeing is “add more lanes!!”

The “car culture” I refer to is the idea of taking car trips with no advance planning. I believe the auto will remain the primary mode of transpo for most people in the forseeable future, but I expect folks to be more sensible in their use of the auto. E.g. living close to your work, and not commuting 1-2 hours each way. E.g. Combining trips to the post office, grocery store, etc. E.g. carpooling. E.g. not waiting in line at drive through restaurants. E.g using public transpo when it is convenient, like going to a Braves game or a concert at Phillips arena. That’s what I mean.

Have a great day, me luv’.

By Archie

April 29, 2008 12:38 PM | Link to this

For instance, when you refer to the “black church”, to me that is a racist reference in and of itself. Come on dude don’t be simple that phrase has been around before I was born and it refers to a predominantly black church not one that excludes anybody and you know that. when you couple said opposition with other broad, sweeping statement slamming America, expect some backlash. Come on El Perro!! Rev Wright gave a long list of ills before he slammed America, he put things in context quite well. Imagine if you’ve served in Iraq and came home to America and were told you can’t eat at Woolworth’s even if you are a soldier or the Cheesecake factory. Hell the reason Obama disagreed with Wright because he Obama didn’t feel as though Wright gave enough credit to America but then keep in mind Obama is in his mid to late forties(my age group). People in Wright’s generation really caught Hell. The whole Rev Wright thing isn’t worth discussing much anymore because you have deeper issues such as the ones we’re discussing i.e. gas prices,recession, get it?

By El Perro

April 29, 2008 12:45 PM | Link to this

For your edification. Archie, I did a quick “blog count” for this AM. USinUK made 11 blogs so far, and I’ve made 10, not counting this one. Yet, you suggested to me that I comment less, and didn’t say a word to her. Why again the double standard??

As for the intelligence of my posts, I personally think I’ve got a greater grasp of the issues than most of your liberal friends here. But of course, that may just be a personal opinion….

Regardless of content, however, I give each poster equal respect, and call people down on both sides of the political aisle. Can you say the same thing??

By Truth

April 29, 2008 12:48 PM | Link to this

Archie

I ask this of Andrea and Shanti, why is there no warning or disclaimer about posting race-baiting type commentary?

If you do not have the emotional stability to discuss an issue that has quickly become a front page story in almost every news outlet, you shouldn’t be here.

I’ve tried to be nice to you, but you are an as*hole, no matter what color you are.

By chuck

April 29, 2008 12:51 PM | Link to this

Archie, I think you are wrong about that. His church is integrated, but that isn’t the point. Wright preaches something called “Black Liberation Theology”. An article in World Net Daily described this philosophy using quotes from Wright and Theologian James Cone. In part the article says:

Barack Obama’s suddenly radioactive pastor, Rev. Jeremiah Wright, has defended himself against charges of anti-Americanism and racism by referring to his foundational philosophy, the “black liberation theology” of scholars such as James Cone, who regard Jesus Christ as a “black messiah” and blacks as “the chosen people” who will only accept a god who assists their aim of destroying the “white enemy.”

“If God is not for us and against white people,” writes Cone, “then he is a murderer, and we had better kill him. The task of black theology is to kill gods who do not belong to the black community.”

The white people in his church buy into this philosophy as well, as unlikely as that sounds. You may be unaware of this Archie, but the liberal movement in America is frought with white elitists who actually think that they are doing good things for Blacks by making them dependent on the government for everything. They are very paternalistic. I personally think it is a most degrading attitude. They feel guilt about everything that has happened to Black people in America and feel they deserve to hear what he has to say in criticism. They are the same people whose guilt puts them in favor of reparations, affirmative action, welfare, etc.

My personal philosophy in this regard is that the greatest respect you can show to another human being is to treat them the same way you treat everyone else. You don’t show favoritism to ANY race. You don’t expect more from some people than you do from others. You especially don’t expect anything from others that you don’t expect from yourself. I’ve made it through many rough patches in my life through prayer and perseverence. Black Liberation Theology in effect says that all of our problems are because of the white man. He’s going to keep us down at every opportunity and the only way to get anything from him is to take it. To me that flies in the face of everything American. I will never understand that mindset.

By El Perro

April 29, 2008 12:55 PM | Link to this

At the risk of exceeding USinUK’s blog count, I’ll respond to your comments, Archie.

Rev Wright gave a long list of ills before he slammed America, he put things in context quite well. Imagine if you’ve served in Iraq and came home to America and were told you can’t eat at Woolworth’s even if you are a soldier or the Cheesecake factory. Hell the reason Obama disagreed with Wright because he Obama didn’t feel as though Wright gave enough credit to America but then keep in mind Obama is in his mid to late forties(my age group). People in Wright’s generation really caught Hell.

If you reread my posts, Archie, I have always acknowledged that “African-Americans” have faced significant disadvantages here in the US, especially in the South. However, Rev. wright takes things a huge step further when he starts accusing the government of “inventing AIDS” and “importing drugs” for the purpose of destroying Black America. When he starts doing that, he has crossed a factual line that makes him lose all credibility.

The whole Rev Wright thing isn’t worth discussing much anymore because you have deeper issues such as the ones we’re discussing i.e. gas prices,recession, get it?

Again, if you reread my posts, in case you didn’t actually read them in the first place, I have maintained from the beginning that Rev. Wright’s comments are a non-issue to me primarily because he isn’t running for office. It has been primarily Truth who keeps beating that drum, with chuck chiming in on occasion. I respect your viewpoints, but you need to read my posts a little more closely and expect some rebuttal if we’re going to get along.

By El Perro

April 29, 2008 12:59 PM | Link to this

I’ve tried to be nice to you, but you are an ashole, no matter what color you are*.

Truth, if you believe in and support the conservative cause, you need to understand that calling people names won’t win the war. Lord knows, I’ve been guilty of the same sin, so I’m not placing myself above you. Let’s let the liberal faction continue to do all the name-calling, ok, fellow conservative?

USinUK—You need to blog some more, before my blog count eclipses yours! ; > }

By Race Baiter

April 29, 2008 1:00 PM | Link to this

Here’s one: http://www.ajc.com/opinion/content/shared-blogs/ajc/thinkingright/entries/2008/04/29/courtsvoteridruling_vindicat.html#comment-55466303

By El Perro

April 29, 2008 1:04 PM | Link to this

My personal philosophy in this regard is that the greatest respect you can show to another human being is to treat them the same way you treat everyone else. You don’t show favoritism to ANY race. You don’t expect more from some people than you do from others. You especially don’t expect anything from others that you don’t expect from yourself. I’ve made it through many rough patches in my life through prayer and perseverence. Black Liberation Theology in effect says that all of our problems are because of the white man. He’s going to keep us down at every opportunity and the only way to get anything from him is to take it. To me that flies in the face of everything American. I will never understand that mindset.

Gotta run for a while, but my hat’s off to you this AM, chuck, for your intelligent commentaries. In my experience, truly conservative people DO treat everyone the same and aren’t racist at all. On the other side of the political aisle, every position seems to involve racial classification, which, IMO, is de facto racism.

Do the conservative cause a favor and forget about Obama’s middle name for the rest of the election cycle. It’s a non-issue as well.

Again, great job on your posts today. Should I call you New Chuck?? ; > }

By Monica

April 29, 2008 1:33 PM | Link to this

Hi everyone! Been busy busy busy…

USinUK, I do live within walking distance to work (2 miles), and my husband has begun riding his bicycle to work. However, as my trek would involve walking on a 4 lane highway, I still take the car. That is one of the reasons that we moved a few years ago - to be close to work. We don’t live in the metro area (well, unless something sensational happens; then the news lists our county as “Metro Atlanta”), and we have no public transportation to speak of in our town. We live in what I call an “urbal” area: the best of both worlds.

Three years ago, when gas was on the rise for the first time, we spent around $600 month on auto fuel. Since our move, we have cut that by more than 50%, that is, until the recent climb in prices.

We are still dependent on our vehicles, but we could go down to one if we had to. A good start, perhaps?

By Newzwyre

April 29, 2008 1:43 PM | Link to this

comments from other folks -

“To break it down, here’s what Wright is doing: he’s spitting in the face of the man who defended him, who said he was “like family” and did so without any undertones of private anger or resentment. He did so unconditionally. Now Wright is using his newfound notoriety to become the next racial demagogue, and who cares if it’s at the expense of Obama? If CNN, MSNBC and Fox News are booking me as the Black Pat Buchanan in a few years, then it’s all worth it!”

“Obama extended his hand to help Wright above the fray. Instead, Wright has pulled him back down into the barrel, making it even more difficult for the most talented politician we’ve seen in years to escape the politics of race, resentment and self-victimization that continue to condemn us all.” — (this item is well worth reading in its entirety)

http://tpmcafe.talkingpointsmemo.com/talk/2008/04/crabs-in-the-barrel.php

and, if you can stand it, Rush -

“I watched some of Reverend Wright this morning at the National Press Club. It seems obvious to me that he’s doing everything he can to wipe out Obama’s candidacy, and I’ll tell you why I think it is. I think that people like Reverend Wright — and I think there are a lot of other race business hustlers out there, by the way, who think this — really upset that if a black candidate is elected president, that they’re going to be somehow diminished in their task, at keeping everybody in their flocks all revved up and angry about the ages old sin of slavery and the ongoing discrimination.”

“So it appears to me, if you look at Reverend Wright, listen to what he says and analyze it from the context or perspective of what’s best for him, which is clearly all he’s interested in, what’s best for him is that if Obama loses, because then it’s easy for him to say, “See, the white power structure doesn’t want a black man to rise to the pinnacle of power in the United States of America.”

http://www.rushlimbaugh.com/home/daily/site_042808/content/01125108.guest.html

personally, I think all this stuff is distracting in immaterial. Who cares what a two-bit preacher is saying? He has no real power to do anything. From lapel pins and “cankles” to artistic licence in stump speeches to whether it’s safe to shop in Baghdad - it’s all distraction.

I’m tired of being talked down to. I’m tired of the MSM telling me that I should be more interested in Miley Cyrus’ photo in Vanity Fair (I think it looks like the girl on the cover of the Les Miz programs) than I am about the falling value of American currency. To paraphrase “Howard Beale”- I’m mad as hell and I’m not going to take this anymore! — except I am going to take it because there are no options.

sigh — damn

By Bruno

April 29, 2008 2:04 PM | Link to this

Don’t ever give up hope, Newz. In your honor, I’m going to dedicate the Song of the Day to you. It’s a beautiful number called “The Best Is Yet To Come” by Cynthia Biggs and Dexter Wansel—not to be confused with the Frank Sinatra tune of the same title. The best version of it can be found on Grover Washington’s album called “Love Songs” in which the indomitable Patti Labelle handles the vocals. For you:

Give me the sun, I’ll give you the moonlight

Love will set us free, if we just believe

The best is yet to come

.

Show me your smile, I’ll fill it with laughter

That will light your mind, as long as we believe

The best is yet to come

.

Can you see what I see? On the road ahead

Do you know there’s a new life there?

Waiting there

.

Give me your world, and I’ll give you heaven

Love will set us free, as long as we believe

The best is yet to come……..

By Newzwyre

April 29, 2008 2:14 PM | Link to this

Grover Washington? Isn’t he the red muppet? :)

Thanks, Bruce, for making me smile.

By Newzwyre

April 29, 2008 2:21 PM | Link to this

from the F/T -

“I don’t think that an increase in production would help lower prices, because there is a balance between supply and demand and the stocks of gasoline in the United States have recorded a surplus and are at their highest level for five years.” “The prices are high due to the recession in the United States and the economic crisis, which has touched several countries, a situation that has an effect on the value of the dollar.” “Each time the dollar falls 1 per cent, the price of the barrel rises by $4 and of course vice versa.” — Chakib Khelil, Algeria’s energy minister and OPEC president

I had been wondering if it really was the supply/demand issue driving the rise in oil costs or if the devaluation of the dollar was more an issue. Can anyone explain to me why a one cent devaluation would mean a four dollar increase in cude prices? That just doesn’t seem to make sense to me, a non-economist.

By USinUK

April 29, 2008 2:22 PM | Link to this

El P -

USinUK—You need to blog some more, before my blog count eclipses yours! ; > }

give a girl a break … gotta commute home sometime!

hrmmmmmm …

Rush Limbaugh: ““See, the white power structure doesn’t want a black man to rise to the pinnacle of power in the United States of America.”

chuck: Think about how Wright makes his money. He gets Black people to come in and buy into the idea that “Whitey is keeping me down.” What happens to that idea if Obama is elected?

coinkidink??? I think not …

By Bruno

April 29, 2008 2:26 PM | Link to this

Thanks, Bruce, for making me smile.

My pleasure, Newz.

By Archie

April 29, 2008 2:27 PM | Link to this

El Perro, today, you are right that USinUk outdid you but most of the time that’s not the case. However, Rev. wright takes things a huge step further when he starts accusing the government of “inventing AIDS” and “importing drugs” for the purpose of destroying Black America. When he starts doing that, he has crossed a factual line that makes him lose all credibility. Rev Wright is not the first person to suggest this and there have been many whites to suggest this before. I heard that years ago and since the man has seen some funky things done to americans black and white I can understand why he would believe that. All kinds of Americans have been unwillingly experimented on in the past by the government.

As for the black liberation theology it has nothing to do with bashing whites, it has to do with freedom to be a christian and freedom to enjoy african customs,etc. Many blacks were chastised at one point for being christian. I got that interpretation from Rev Wright and of course I know some internet sites have a different meaning but common sense should tell you no one is going to sit around for 2 hrs every Sunday and listen to someone demean or threathen them. Whites attend his church and whites have defended Wright way better than I ever could.

By Newzwyre

April 29, 2008 2:31 PM | Link to this

Thanks, Bruce, for making me smile.

ooopsie. I meant “thank you BRUNO for making me smile”!!

By chuck

April 29, 2008 2:31 PM | Link to this

No Bruno, being a conservative, I am not into change. I’m still the same old chuck I ever was.

By Truth

April 29, 2008 2:33 PM | Link to this

El Perro

I simply asked one other blogger what she thought of the issue that is on the front page of every news outlet in the country. It IS the issue that is effecting who will be the next leader of our country, no matter how many people say it doesn’t matter to them.

Polls have shown huge changes in numbers because of this. I have never even offered my own opinion of the matter, but simply observations about the election. I’m a Republican. Obama’s stances on taxes and government show him to be the most liberal Senator in Washington. That’s why I won’t vote for him, but that issue did not lead all three network newscast last night. The Rev. Wright issue did.

USinUk and I have discssed this in length before and I was interested in her opinion about Wright’s return. So shoot me. We had discussed the issue of the week two weeks ago.

I have read several of the opinions of several of our posters on here about this issue and they are brilliant. They are not mean or attacking anyone. They were simply posting their own observations: exactly what a political forum is supposed to be.

Archie is always the one that is trying to make a race issue out of EVERY issue that is presented. And whenever he can, he still desperately tries to make me out to be a racist. I am tired of his adolescent, simplistic mindset. He must be a very strong person to have carried such a huge chip on his shoulder all these years.

I don’t have any problem with discussing any issue with anyone if the discussion is civil. But what I do have a problem with is people who continually try to tell me what I can and can’t discuss.

By Bruno

April 29, 2008 2:37 PM | Link to this

give a girl a break … gotta commute home sometime!

C’mon, now, that’s no excuse!! ; > }

chuck: Think about how Wright makes his money. He gets Black people to come in and buy into the idea that “Whitey is keeping me down.” What happens to that idea if Obama is elected?

Similarly, Jesse Jackson, Al Sharpton, and even Louis Farrakhan have been making a fine living beating on the racist drum for many years.

P.S. to Newz: We’re all in this thing together. As such, I guess we’ll all be crying together for a while. BTW, did you see the news story regarding the Bush press conference this afternoon in which he directly addressed the gas crunch? It’s detailed on the yahoo.com homepage if you want to read about it. I think that Bush knows the future of the Republican Party hinges on getting those prices down, somehow, some way.

By USinUK

April 29, 2008 2:38 PM | Link to this

Monica -

However, as my trek would involve walking on a 4 lane highway, I still take the car.

and that’s the other half of the equation - there have to be safe ways for non-drivers to commute to work - sidewalks, designated bike lanes, paths.

the biggest thing, though, is good public transport - my husband was shocked the first time we went to my dads in VERY suburban Atlanta and I told him that there are no buses or any kind of mass trans from his house - he would literally have to walk a few miles to Hwy 41 and then another few miles down the highway to catch a bus.

there are serious infrastructure changes that have to be made - I’m in complete agreement with El P - in the not-too-distant future, we’re going to be paying $5 … $6 … $10/gal - most families just can absorb that kind of increase in their household budget (neither can most businesses, for that matter)

By chuck

April 29, 2008 2:38 PM | Link to this

coinkidink? Yep. I haven’t listened to Rush since way back before Christmas, unless….wait a minute…Rush, are you plagiarizing me AGAIN!?!?!

By USinUK

April 29, 2008 2:45 PM | Link to this

Bruno -

Similarly, Jesse Jackson, Al Sharpton, and even Louis Farrakhan have been making a fine living beating on the racist drum for many years.

you missed my point … but chuck got it!! (we just know that everyone who registers GOP has daily talking points e-mailed to them every morning) ;-)

By Truth

April 29, 2008 2:46 PM | Link to this

Newzwyre

Great posts. I’m an old news guy and it is heart breaking what our media has become. Miley Sirus in Vanity Fair and the latest tantrum of the latest Hollywood millionaire is garbage journalism. But I don’t think this issue is in the same category.

JFK was a catholic. HUGE deal to the American public in 1960. Should it have been? Who is to say what should or shouldn’t be important to others as to why they pick a specific candidate. Some polls say looks mean more to many people. Is that right? Who is to say what is right or wrong?
Like it or not, this is real news. this is effecting our presidential election.

By Bruno

April 29, 2008 2:48 PM | Link to this

No Bruno, being a conservative, I am not into change. I’m still the same old chuck I ever was.

Well, give yourself a pat on the back for some excellent blogs today, either way.

Rev Wright is not the first person to suggest this and there have been many whites to suggest this before. I heard that years ago and since the man has seen some funky things done to americans black and white I can understand why he would believe that. All kinds of Americans have been unwillingly experimented on in the past by the government.

Archie, I appreciate you including ALL Americans in your statement. In the 1960s, the military experimented on soldiers by giving them massive doses of LSD. Some of those guys were never the same afterward. Again, I acknowledge a sour history for “African-Americans” in this country, as well as in other countries. For example, you aren’t going to run into many black folks over in Russia or any other Eastern European country. All we can do is move forward at this point.

I don’t have any problem with discussing any issue with anyone if the discussion is civil. But what I do have a problem with is people who continually try to tell me what I can and can’t discuss.

Truth, please forgive me if that’s what I’ve done to you, now or in the past. You’re free to speak your mind on any topic. My suggestion is that if you want McCain to win, we shouldn’t waste time highlighting non-issues. I think there’s enough to disagree with regarding his stated positions for raising taxes and redistributing wealth, both of which I vehemently oppose.

By Bruno

April 29, 2008 2:53 PM | Link to this

he would literally have to walk a few miles to Hwy 41 and then another few miles down the highway to catch a bus.

Hmmm—that wouldn’t be along Spring Rd., would it? ; > }

I still own a rental house in Smyrna, which is almost all Latino now.

Tomorrow, I’m going to play the Allman Bros. “Rambling Man” just for your Dad. “I was born in the back of a Greyhound bus, rolling down Highway 41”!

By Truth

April 29, 2008 2:55 PM | Link to this

bruno

did you see the news story regarding the Bush press conference this afternoon in which he directly addressed the gas crunch? It’s detailed on the yahoo.com homepage if you want to read about it. I think that Bush knows the future of the Republican Party hinges on getting those prices down, somehow, some way.

I watched the press conference. He basically said that we need to increase domestic production and allow the oil companies to build domestic refineries. I totally agree. As soon as the oil companies agree to limit the sell of our domestic oil to only the United States and our territories.

He also said that we need to start taking a look at how the rest of the world has moved so far ahead of us on nuclear energy. That’s the biggest DUH!?!? in the history of the world.

And one more time: He is not worried about the connection between the oil companies and the Republican Party. The last time the Republicans ruled over Congress, gas prices were over a dollar cheaper than they are now.

By Archie

April 29, 2008 2:58 PM | Link to this

Archie is always the one that is trying to make a race issue out of EVERY issue that is presented. That’s a straight out lie, ask Lozen and Kimberly. Do I think you are a racist? Yes, that’s true and your responses pretty much indicate you are immature as well because you already know that yet you go and on and on… I have defended Chuck at times from some crazy attacks and I will definitely defend JokesOn and yet I don’t always agree with either of them.

By Truth

April 29, 2008 3:01 PM | Link to this

Bruno

if you want McCain to win, we shouldn’t waste time highlighting non-issues.

I understand my limitations. I am not about to change anyone’s mind as to who to vote for. That’s not why I am here. It is interesting hearing other’s opinions. That’s it. That’s the reason.

And as much as many people would like for it to be, this is definitely not a non-issue.

By Bruno

April 29, 2008 3:09 PM | Link to this

And one more time: He is not worried about the connection between the oil companies and the Republican Party. The last time the Republicans ruled over Congress, gas prices were over a dollar cheaper than they are now.

Unfortunately, Truth, perception is stronger than reality, as you have witnessed here on W2W virtually every say. Just ask whats-her-name. She’ll explain in detail to you how the rising gas prices are the direct responsibility of the “greedy” Republican Party.

That’s a straight out lie, ask Lozen and Kimberly.

I’ll be smart and leave that one alone, Archie. ; > }

By USinUK

April 29, 2008 3:13 PM | Link to this

Bruno -

*Tomorrow, I’m going to play the Allman Bros. “Rambling Man” just for your Dad. “I was born in the back of a Greyhound bus, rolling down Highway 41”! *

that has always been one of my favorite songs … (and, no, he’s not in Smyrna)

Truth - He basically said that we need to increase domestic production and allow the oil companies to build domestic refineries. I totally agree. As soon as the oil companies agree to limit the sell of our domestic oil to only the United States and our territories

we already HAVE domestic refineries operating under capacity … how about we get them up to speed before we talk about building more.

plus, drilling for oil domestically - we’re talking about a solution 5-10 years down the line - it’s not going to do anythign to help the price of gasoline NOW - this is just a freebie for Bush’s oily friends

By Bruno

April 29, 2008 3:15 PM | Link to this

Off-topic, Archie, what kind of music do you groove to? Are you an Old-School R&B fan?? Drop on by, and we’ll jam to some O’Jays, Spinners, and Earth, Wind, and Fire. We might even have to play some Ohio Players.

On the off chance you like rap, I’m loaded with ODB and the Wu Tang Clan. Of course, I’d much prefer to play some Chaka Khan for you. “Tell me something good….Thrill me, thrill me!”

By Bruno

April 29, 2008 3:20 PM | Link to this

Now, when I REALLY want to get a girl in the mood, I go with Chaka Khan’s “Sweet Thing”:

Love me now or I’ll go crazy

wwwoooooowwwooooo sweet thang

dont you know ur my everythang

wwwwoooooooo sweet thang

dont you know your my everythang

(yes you are)

By Bruno

April 29, 2008 3:25 PM | Link to this

USinUK—Would you be my blog “Sweet Thing”??

P.S. Let me know what you think of my Jerry Garcia tat over on Michael Allman’s myspace website. You’ll have to create a myspace account to log in.

By USinUK

April 29, 2008 3:26 PM | Link to this

The last time the Republicans ruled over Congress, gas prices were over a dollar cheaper than they are now

criminey - what does that have to do with the price of tea in china??

OPEC has decided they like oil at more than $100/barrel, so they have decided to keep production low, maintaining these prices.

Mahmoud Ahmadenijad said 2 weeks ago that he thinks prices are too low

In Nigeria, an oil pipeline was bombed a little over a week ago

and, last but not least, there’s been a strike on some of the North Sea oil platforms

do you REALLY think EITHER party as a Congressional majority could have made a difference in this situation???

By kimberly

April 29, 2008 3:37 PM | Link to this

Archie, you’re not the racist around here, IMO.

She’ll explain in detail to you how the rising gas prices are the direct responsibility of the “greedy” Republican Party.

No, I won’t. Why would I think ANYTHING is the responsibility of the people in charge and set trade and energy policy? (Heh… It’s all who-see-whatsit’s d!ck’s fault, you know.) Why, that would be as ridiculous as making a connection between oil men running the government and the completely unrelated record oil profits we see now. Geez, how stupid would THAT be?

Instead, I might ask what YOU think of our administration’s relationship with the Saudis (President playing kissy face, skipping through the bluebonnets with the Prince) and how that relates to the following: 1) No retaliation re: the Saudis that attacked us on 9/11, nor help from them apprehending the Saudi ring leader Bin Laden, who remains free and funded 2) Secret energy commission meetings with Cheney we know nothing aout, 3) Giving the Saudis a pass on human rights violations (women) while boycotting Cuba who has no oil, 4) Long history of Bush family wealth tied to business dealings with Saudis 5) Saudis raising prices of oil daily 6) American money going into the robes of Saudi royals while our bridges and levees collapse, 7) McCains jack-a-ss idea to do away with gas taxes for 3 months, which would throw thousands out of work on infrastructure projects and does nothing to solve the problem of dependence on Saudi oil 8) The amount of money we, collectively, the US taxpayers now OWE the Saudis with interest, and 9) The fact that you are utterly and completely disingenuous?

Thanks. I come here to learn.

By USinUK

April 29, 2008 3:38 PM | Link to this

Bruno -

I’ve never really gotten into The Dead or Jerry Garcia - or Phish, for that matter. I’m sure they’re great but - meh - I just don’t like them.

As for Chakha Khan … I have VERY fond memories of “Feel for You” (circa 1985) - man, that song can still get me up and dancing like a 15-year old.

By Newzwyre

April 29, 2008 3:39 PM | Link to this

please note this quote from the President of OPEC in my 2:21 post -

I don’t think that an increase in production would help lower prices, because there is a balance between supply and demand and the stocks of gasoline in the United States have recorded a surplus and are at their highest level for five years.

Now this one from Truth at 2:55 -

He (Bush) basically said that we need to increase domestic production and allow the oil companies to build domestic refineries.

my question is - what good will increased domestic production do for prices if we alread have a SURPLUS per the comment form OPEC? What if the greatest driver of the increased prices isn’t supply? What if it is the devaluation of the dollar?

By Monica

April 29, 2008 3:40 PM | Link to this

With regard to the election and the voters’ opinions: perception is reality. If the majority of voters think that Obama holds the same views as Rev. Wright, the truth doesn’t matter as the voters will vote for someone else. If the majority of voters think that Hillary can’t be trusted, then whether or not she can is moot. If the majority of voters think that one party in particular is respobsible for the rising oil prices, then that party is responsible.

By Lyrazel

April 29, 2008 3:50 PM | Link to this

Archie is always the one that is trying to make a race issue out of EVERY issue that is presented.

Archie does not make every subject into race issues and its ludicrous to say so, Truth. If anything he gives an especially needed viewpoint, he does not hound for attention, switch his name to suit his shoe style. In several instances he has admitted to seeing issues differently based on posts—from people who generally are opinion opposites. I would say he is fair, moderate & open minded—certainly for a participant in THIS blog.

Ah, angry men. Don’tcha love em?

By Bruno

April 29, 2008 3:50 PM | Link to this

Instead, I might ask what YOU think of our administration’s relationship with the Saudis (President playing kissy face, skipping through the bluebonnets with the Prince) and how that relates to the following: 1) No retaliation re: the Saudis that attacked us on 9/11, nor help from them apprehending the Saudi ring leader Bin Laden, who remains free and funded 2) Secret energy commission meetings with Cheney we know nothing aout, 3) Giving the Saudis a pass on human rights violations (women) while boycotting Cuba who has no oil, 4) Long history of Bush family wealth tied to business dealings with Saudis 5) Saudis raising prices of oil daily 6) American money going into the robes of Saudi royals while our bridges and levees collapse, 7) McCains jack-a-ss idea to do away with gas taxes for 3 months, which would throw thousands out of work on infrastructure projects and does nothing to solve the problem of dependence on Saudi oil 8) The amount of money we, collectively, the US taxpayers now OWE the Saudis with interest, and 9) The fact that you are utterly and completely disingenuous?

Good points, whats-her-name. But didn’t the video of Bush holding the Saudi King’s hand bring a lump to your throat.

BTW, if you recall, I have pointed to the hypocrisy of our relationship with Saudi Arabia here on the blog for a looong time. So, I have to disagree with point #9.

As for Chakha Khan … I have VERY fond memories of “Feel for You” (circa 1985) - man, that song can still get me up and dancing like a 15-year old.

I hear you, USinUK. If you ever heard some live Grateful Dead (e.g. Dick’s Pick #18), you might change your mind about them. I never liked Phish either.

By Bruno

April 29, 2008 3:58 PM | Link to this

If the majority of voters think that Hillary can’t be trusted, then whether or not she can is moot.

In Hillary’s case, Monica, don’t you think, given her history of bold-faced lies that perception and reality are one and the same.

P.S. to USinUK—Since you’re a rocker, I’ll stick to playing “the good stuff” for you, like Slowhand and Cream. I might get a little sappy and play some Phil Collins for you, though. Ever heard “Inside Out”? When I was still in college, and my GF lived in a different state, “One More Night” used to bring a lump to my throat.

By Bruno

April 29, 2008 4:02 PM | Link to this

Ah, angry men. Don’tcha love em?

C’mon, Lyrazel. You know you ladies love an angry man. In fact, if a guy REALLY wants to score, all he has to do is spend a little time in jail. Works like a charm.

By Archie

April 29, 2008 4:15 PM | Link to this

Thank you Lyrazel and Kimberly. Kimberly I want to compliment you again for your 11:30 am post. I do confess to bias in that I like reading the posts of Lyrazel because she takes time and her opinions are interesting and she does not portray people in absolute terms. I like other posters or bloggers too.

Off-topic, Archie, what kind of music do you groove to? Are you an Old-School R&B fan?? Drop on by, and we’ll jam to some O’Jays, Spinners, and Earth, Wind, and Fire. We might even have to play some Ohio Players. Bruno that’s some good stuff right there and I didn’t say it earlier but that Grover song you picked is pretty good. Do you like smooth jazz artists such as Boney James,David Sanborn,Najee, or Norman Brown? I am an old-school r&b fan and look here,Bruno don’t worry about stereotyping me with that. Chaka Khan is one of my alltime favorite female singers. Anyway keep posting Bruno, your conservative views the worst I can do is disagree with them.

By Lyrazel

April 29, 2008 4:17 PM | Link to this

How can McCain even offer to hold back gas taxes when HE KNOWS all states (including AZ) revenues are gained from gas tax? Certainly Georgia gets a hefty chunk of revenue from gas tax. More money would be gained by ending oil subsidies, ending farm subsidies, ending airline subsidies. Has anyone caught how this Mortgage&Foreclosure Bill (to keep people in their homes, LOL) has earmarked funds not just for the airline industries, banking industry but the home builders industry? Maybe we should banish lobbyists—gosh would THAT save money. Who paid for your congressman to be seated?

By Bruno

April 29, 2008 4:31 PM | Link to this

Bruno that’s some good stuff right there and I didn’t say it earlier but that Grover song you picked is pretty good. Do you like smooth jazz artists such as Boney James,David Sanborn,Najee, or Norman Brown? I am an old-school r&b fan and look here,Bruno don’t worry about stereotyping me with that. Chaka Khan is one of my alltime favorite female singers. Anyway keep posting Bruno, your conservative views the worst I can do is disagree with them.

In the ATL, we have a station called “Smooth Jazz” (107.5), which I used to play in my office all day long. At the risk of stereotyping, I must say that most black singers have better voices than their white counterparts. Another fav of mine is Aretha Franklin. “Daydreaming and I’m thinking of you….He’s the kind of guy that can say Hey baby, let’s get away, let’s go some place, where I don’t care….”

BTW, I wouldn’t expect you or anyone to agree with everything I say, or even anything I say. We all have different perspectives on life, and can only maintain respect for other’s outlooks.

By Lyrazel

April 29, 2008 4:35 PM | Link to this

Said it as a joke, sir. I never cared for felon-hipsters, thugs and rapists, dope pushers, crime bosses and folks who need limousines to show they can spend money foolishly. Never cared for pimps, embezzling secretaries, men who beat their wives, women who beat their husbands, clergy who molested children and never cared for dog fighters or cleaning my cats litter box.

I like a poet who will never be published who dreams a lot and loves me because I am silly & old & he never berates me when I waste my whole day blogging. Bruno, when you have THAT you will be loved. Good luck.

By Archie

April 29, 2008 4:58 PM | Link to this

Said it as a joke, sir. I never cared for felon-hipsters, thugs and rapists, dope pushers, crime bosses and folks who need limousines to show they can spend money foolishly. Never cared for pimps, embezzling secretaries, men who beat their wives, women who beat their husbands, clergy who molested children and never cared for dog fighters or cleaning my cats litter box. Preach Lyrazel. I like that Aretha song too. I don’t like too much rap because it glorifies the negatives all to make a dollar… Celine Dion and Streisand can hit all the notes you want, but my favorite female singers are Whitney Houston,Mariah Carey and Chaka Khan. I think we need to discuss the media more because I don’t think they’re investigating this gas thing deep enough.

By Mara

April 30, 2008 10:18 AM | Link to this

I guess everybody finally just gave up…

By Truth

April 30, 2008 10:27 AM | Link to this

Archie

Of course you think I am a racist. You support Rev. Wright. No matter how many of your little liberal friends here pander to you, YOU are the bigot. YOu are the racist. You are the person that is the problem.

By Chilao

April 30, 2008 10:38 AM | Link to this

I guess everybody finally just gave up…

YEP! between the dog turds and/or racists, there are much better places to be.

By carolee

April 30, 2008 11:21 AM | Link to this

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By chuck

April 30, 2008 11:42 AM | Link to this

Lyrazel, you said:

More money would be gained by ending oil subsidies, ending farm subsidies, ending airline subsidies.

While this may be true, it is NOT what McCain is trying to accomplish. He wants to lower the overall cost of gasoline for the summer for CONSUMERS, not bring in more money to the FEDERAL GOVERNMENT. His plan to remove FEDERAL taxes from gas would immediately lower the cost of gasoline by about $.20 per gallon or about $4.00 per fill-up.

Eliminating the subsidies, which really is a misnomer anyway, gas prices would actually INCREASE to consumers as suppliers pass those NEW COSTS onto them.

For those of you who aren’t sure what Lyrazel is talking about when he says “subsidy”, a few years ago, Congress wanted to get oil companies to increase domestic oil production by drilling in deep water off of the coast. This was a risky endeavor and oil companies really didn’t want to take the risks involved. Congress passed a law to motivate them by not requiring them to pay the usual and customary royalties that they would pay on other types of domestic production.

By chuck

April 30, 2008 11:56 AM | Link to this

BTW, did anybody catch Brack HUSSEIN Obama’s denunciation of the Rev. Wright yesterday? Here is my opinion on that. I am gaining a real appreciation for how good a politician Brack HUSSEIN Obama is. He would be a TRAIN WRECK as President, but he is a great politician. Here is what I think he is actually doing. Brack HUSSEIN Obama and Wright cooked up this whole thing because Brack HUSSEIN Obama was losing momentum after Pennsylvania. They saw that the country as a whole was really hatin’ on Wright and figured the best way to stop the bleeding was for Brack HUSSEIN Obama to crank on him too. I honestly believe that they concocted this whole thing to make Brack HUSSEIN Obama look good and get tons of free air time to boot. This is really brilliant if you think about it. I’m surprised that none of the talking heads have picked up on this. Hey, MAYBE I’m brilliant, too.

By Bruno

April 30, 2008 12:02 PM | Link to this

there are much better places to be.

Hey, Chilao—Why don’t you put up, or shut up? You never added anything of merit to any of the W2W discussions other than your droll, anti-religion comments. If there’s somewhere better to be, why do you keep lurking here? Don’t tell me you’re pining for the good ol’ days on W2W as well…. Isn’t that a habit of conservatives?

Why would I think ANYTHING is the responsibility of the people in charge and set trade and energy policy? (Heh… It’s all who-see-whatsit’s d!ck’s fault, you know.) Why, that would be as ridiculous as making a connection between oil men running the government and the completely unrelated record oil profits we see now. Geez, how stupid would THAT be?

BTW, whats-her-name, you still haven’t explained how the OPEC nations sticking together and lowering production is the fault of Bush/Cheney. And even though the oil companies are posting “record” profits in terms of absolute dollars, their profit margin is still around 15%, which isn’t all that outrageous in comparison to other industries. Furthermore, as publicly-held companies, the shareholders are the ones benefiting the most. Maybe you should have bought some energy stocks with all of your economic insight.

The bottom line is that we’re all hurting from the higher gas prices. I just don’t see how demonizing the Prez through innuendo is solving anything.

I like a poet who will never be published who dreams a lot and loves me because I am silly & old & he never berates me when I waste my whole day blogging. Bruno, when you have THAT you will be loved. Good luck.

Well, I DO write poetry on occasion, Lyrazel, and I would CERTAINLY never berate you for blogging all day. But since you’re already taken, I’ll try not to flirt with you. BTW, your companion is a lucky man to have such a smart lady like you to share the good times and bad with.

By Bruno

April 30, 2008 12:14 PM | Link to this

I honestly believe that they concocted this whole thing to make Brack HUSSEIN Obama look good and get tons of free air time to boot. This is really brilliant if you think about it. I’m surprised that none of the talking heads have picked up on this. Hey, MAYBE I’m brilliant, too.

If you truly WERE brilliant, chuck, you wouldn’t keep making a fool of yourself by highlighting non-issues like Obama’s middle name. His record as the most liberal Senator should provide enough fodder to discredit him. Amazingly to me is that given the unpopularity of Bush right now, it should be a slam-dunk for a Democrat to win the White House. But Hillary, in all of HER brilliance, has done a far better job of turning the Democrats toward McCain than any Republican strategist ever could have. Thanks, Hillary. A lot of folks are pontificating that Hillary is actually rooting for McCain to win so that she can have one last shot at the WH in 2012, since McCain will likely be too old to run again.

By Lyrazel

April 30, 2008 12:23 PM | Link to this

Chuck the problem is all states earn spending money from gas taxes for state projects. To stop taxing gas would mean states would loose revenues. Second, owners of gas stations have to pay tax on their gas bought for consumers—so they are really screwed by this crap game unless they can buy without paying tax. American energy policy today is: Maximize demand, minimize supply and buy the rest from the people who hate us the most Wake up to the fact gas prices will not go down—ever—again. There is too much competition now in other industrialized nations for the same petroleum stock. Maybe it should be a wake-up call to consumers about how little their presidential candidates can actually DO or will do and what sound-bite legislation is. Just where are we going to BORROW the money to keep gas prices artificially low?

By Bruno

April 30, 2008 12:25 PM | Link to this

Also, chuck, yesterday you twice alluded to spending time in “your” classroom giving “your” students lessons on how to balance a checkbook and advice on how to handle personal credit. Wouldn’t those type of lessons be taught more appropriately in a MATH class? Is it possible that you’re living vicariously through your wife, the math teacher, rather than being a teacher yourself?

Also, JokesOn—I read the link you provided which made comparisons of health insurance costs in other nations to ours. Unfortunately, the article didn’t provide any specifics. Perhaps the original Frontline story gave specific numbers to back up the claims, but none appeared in your links. What was stated, however, is that the German MDs are extremely upset with the regulated prices—very similar to the feeling among US doctors toward Medicare. Though I think most MDs charge too high of a price for a routine office visit, I understand that they have a big overhead and have to recoup their investment in attending 8 years of college, as USinUK alluded to. Thus, IMO, we have to either go purely socialistic with health care, or return to TRUE capitalistic medicine and reduce the number of middlemen in order to help lower costs. If the medical colleges would allow increased enrollment, that would help tremendously as well.

By Bruno

April 30, 2008 12:33 PM | Link to this

Maybe it should be a wake-up call to consumers about how little their presidential candidates can actually DO or will do and what sound-bite legislation is. Just where are we going to BORROW the money to keep gas prices artificially low?

As I said earlier, Lyrazel, your companion is a lucky man to have such a sensible person like you to spend time with. Unfortunately, most of the “liberals” on board here think either Obama or Hillary is going to wave some kind of magic wand and fundamentally change the reality of supply and demand dynamics. It’s too bad some of them can’t look past their blind hatred of Bush and Cheney to read the handwriting on the wall about gas prices. We had a free ride for nearly 50 years, but the party is over now.

I still retain hope that new technologies will come along, such as a propane driven car, and one day a hydrogen fusion car. BUT, that will only happen when gas prices warrant a change. The bottom line is that necessity is the mother of invention. Human nature dictates that we only act when forced to. Until that time, no NSA government-funded hack “scientist” is ever going to invent anything of real merit.

By Bruno

April 30, 2008 12:42 PM | Link to this

Lost in the shuffle over concern about high gas prices is a trend which REALLY concerns me: The tremendous amount of real estate being bought up by foreigners here in the US right now. The weak dollar, coupled with depressed real estate prices has opened the door for foreign investors to buy up huge amounts of real estate, which I’m sure they will be only too happy to resell to Americans later on. That will definitely cause a transfer of wealth form our pockets to theirs. I.e. Real wealth, and not paper debt.

By Bruno

April 30, 2008 12:45 PM | Link to this

Well, since USinUK isn’t here today, no Song of the Day. I’m sure you are all disappointed.

Catch you guys later….

By lyingsnake

April 30, 2008 12:56 PM | Link to this

.

By Newzwyre

April 30, 2008 1:14 PM | Link to this

— the stocks of gasoline in the United States have recorded a surplus and are at their highest level for five years.

or so the President of OPEC claims, and I suppose he’s got better stats on it than any of us. Which brings me to something kimberly said (and certain people mocked) as being contradictory to previous statements about supply/demand and cost -

Bringing prices down by reducing demand isn’t going to work.

I have to say that this is a fair statement. If we currently have a surplus of stock, yet the price keeps going up, then something other than high demand and tight supply is at work. In my opinion, the best way to lower gas prices is to pay down the debt and get our fiscal house in order. That will boost the worth of the dollar which will ultimately make ANY imported commodity more affordable.

speaking of energy though - I am a most sincere supporter of alternative energies. This is why I think it’s better for the government (a NON-PROFIT endeavor if I’ve ever seen one) to fund the research instead of leaving it to private companies.

I’ve done enough trolling through records to know how often innovative ideas have been shunted aside so that businesses could maintain their status quo by sticking with proven moneymakers. If an innovation isn’t immediately profitable, many companies will downplay the research to keep from being pressured into continued funding, even to the point of trying to discredit their own data.

The president of GM just recently admitted regretting that they let their own hybrid technology lanquish. This ultimately ended up allowing Toyota to corner the market, as it were, and now the Prius is outselling the Ford Explorer, once America’s favorite SUV. Had they done that, maybe they wouldn’t be posting such huge losses today.

By chuck

April 30, 2008 1:15 PM | Link to this

Lyrazel, you are usually more logical than what you appear to be today. Gas station owners will NOT have to pay the federal tax on gas if Congress suspends that tax for the summer. They will continue to pay SALES taxes and STATE taxes, but so will consumers. It won’t make any difference to retail outlets at all. States will only lose revenues in terms of the grants that come from the federal government that are raised through taxing gas. Other than those amounts it is a wash for the states.

No Bruno. Personal finance is an ECONOMICS course which is taught at the high school level as an elective (actually it is called personal economics or consumer economics). Economics of course is one of the disciplines under the umbrella of the “social sciences”, which I am certified to teach.

As far as using Barack Hussein Obama’s full name, it certainly will not cause any Republicans to jump ship and vote for him so I fail to see how your assertion makes any sense. As I said before, I do it because it is fun. Won’t be stopping anytime soon.

By Bruno

April 30, 2008 1:33 PM | Link to this

I have to say that this is a fair statement. If we currently have a surplus of stock, yet the price keeps going up, then something other than high demand and tight supply is at work. In my opinion, the best way to lower gas prices is to pay down the debt and get our fiscal house in order. That will boost the worth of the dollar which will ultimately make ANY imported commodity more affordable.

The key word is “IF”—I wouldn’t take Ahmadinejad’s word on ANYTHING, personally. Certainly the weak dollar is a factor in the high price of a barrel of oil, however, the perennial high US dollar is what led to our manufacturing going overseas in the first place. The status of the dollar is a double-edged sword.

speaking of energy though - I am a most sincere supporter of alternative energies. This is why I think it’s better for the government (a NON-PROFIT endeavor if I’ve ever seen one) to fund the research instead of leaving it to private companies. I’ve done enough trolling through records to know how often innovative ideas have been shunted aside so that businesses could maintain their status quo by sticking with proven moneymakers. If an innovation isn’t immediately profitable, many companies will downplay the research to keep from being pressured into continued funding, even to the point of trying to discredit their own data.

Sorry, but I don’t share your faith in non-profit enterprises, Newz. If you study the history of scientific invention, most of our breakthroughs came as a result of individuals working on their own, who stood to gain personally from their inventions. How can you fault companies for embracing technologies which are economically unfeasible?? A better way is coming, but until said better ways are actually more cost-effective to implement, it makes sense to go with the status quo.

BTW, one of the biggest untold stories regarding “hybrid” vehicles is the fact that they all utilize extremely toxic metals, like cadmium, to construct the batteries with. Once a few million of those babies hit our trash dumps, we will be leaving a horrible mess for future generations to clean up. Which is why I’m not a big supporter of nuclear fusion either, like Truth seems to be. The short-term gain of the “cheap” energy isn’t worth the long-term hazard of toxic by-products, IMO.

Nice to hear from you, though.

By chuck

April 30, 2008 1:35 PM | Link to this

NEWZY, You said:

I’ve done enough trolling through records to know how often innovative ideas have been shunted aside so that businesses could maintain their status quo by sticking with proven moneymakers. If an innovation isn’t immediately profitable, many companies will downplay the research to keep from being pressured into continued funding, even to the point of trying to discredit their own data.

Could you please give us some examples of this? I’d be interested to know what company would do that, especially in light of how profitable they would be now that fuel prices are sky high.

By Bruno

April 30, 2008 1:36 PM | Link to this

As far as using Barack Hussein Obama’s full name, it certainly will not cause any Republicans to jump ship and vote for him so I fail to see how your assertion makes any sense. As I said before, I do it because it is fun. Won’t be stopping anytime soon.

Well, if your goal is to give support to the Lib charge that Republicans are racists, then you’re doing a good job.

By Mara

April 30, 2008 1:39 PM | Link to this

As I said before, I do it because it is fun. Won’t be stopping anytime soon.

chuck, what’s it say about you that you get so much amusment from mocking someone because of their name? Isn’t that a bit…juvenile?

should we assume you also laugh at poopie jokes, think the “pull my finger” gag is hilarious, and have your own recipe for fake vomit? That’s about the same level of comedy as the other…

By chuck

April 30, 2008 1:47 PM | Link to this

Actually Bruno, most of those metals are easily recyclable. There is a big movement to get more people to recycle them. The guy that played “Al” on “Home Improvement” is the spokesperson. I can’t remember his actual name. As for nuclear waste, We are currently building a facility in the desert that will hold all of the nuclear waste that we could produce in a thousand years or more. I think nuclear is a really good idea to replace oil-fired facilities. Clean coal is another technology that could replace oil with something we have available here in the US.

By Sandy_G

April 30, 2008 1:50 PM | Link to this

Actually, I think Andrea’s commentary just proves Shaunti’s point. Andrea says things are “looking really grey out there” which is a very subjective, personal opinion, not an unbiased assessment of the current economic situation. Then, she goes on to blame our “greyness” on the budget deficit, which has nothing to do with our current struggles in the stock market and foreign strength of the dollar.

The fact that the economy is still growing, flies in the face of the definition that economists have always used to define a recession, which is two consecutive quarters of NEGATIVE growth. The fact that people BELIEVE we are in a recession is fostered by what they read and hear in the media. Saying that the belief of a recession is proof of a recession is the same logic that medieval clerics used as proof that the earth was flat and that the sun revolved around the earth.

The fact is that economists and their opinions are also subjective. One guy says yes, we will be in another recession, but he can’t tell us when (2 months from now or 2 years from now?), he can’t tell us that we’ll even know when it is happening. That’s kind of like saying, “we will have another earthquake, but I can’t tell you when and even if the room starts moving, we won’t know for sure that it’s an earthquake until after it’s over”. Huh??

The media is partly to blame for their willingness to put as much of a negative slant on everything that they deem to be “newsworthy”. The American public is also to blame, however, for willingly drinking the koolaid that the media is handing out.

A better educated public will demand a better educated media. Until we start throwing down the “bs” card on some of the things that pass for news reporting these days, this trend will continue. Of course, in some ways, the public already has thrown down the “bs” card. Newspaper sales and ratings of mainstream media evening news are down dramatically. Perhaps, once these former bastions of news have shuffled off into the sunset, something more in-depth, more balanced, more detailed and more intelligent will take their place. Personally, I can’t wait.

By Bruno

April 30, 2008 1:52 PM | Link to this

Big OOPS—I’ve referenced the “NSA” a few times, when I meant to refer to the NSF—The National Science Foundation. Maybe I had NASA in the back of my mind.

For the unenlightened, the leeches at the NSF have wasted billions upon billions of our tax dollars over the years funding endless scientific “studies” which have produced basically a big zero in the results department. The only more worthless governmental “scientific” agency is the CDC, IMO. They waste billions of dollars EACH YEAR to fund useless study after useless study. In the meantime, a retired radio executive SINGLE-HANDEDLY just came up with a promising new treatment for cancer which involves importing extremely fine metal particles into cancerous cells, then heating them up via harmless radio waves. If it all works out, radiation treatments will be a thing of the past.

By Copyleft

April 30, 2008 1:53 PM | Link to this

No further evidence is needed for that one, Bruno. Of COURSE the Republican/fasicsts are racist; that much is obvious.

Oh, and the actor is Richard Karn.

By chuck

April 30, 2008 1:55 PM | Link to this

should we assume you also laugh at poopie jokes, think the “pull my finger” gag is hilarious, and have your own recipe for fake vomit? That’s about the same level of comedy as the other…

Of course…don’t you?

I don’t consider it mocking at all to seriously answer your question. IT IS, AFTER ALL, HIS REAL FREAKIN’ NAME. If he’s ashamed of it that’s his problem. What people don’t understand Mara, is that growing up as he did is part of who he IS. Voters should be aware of that.

What I think is FUNNY about using it is the insipid responses it evokes from people who actually think that it matters.

Bruno, HOW IS IT RACIST TO CALL THE MAN BY HIS ACTUAL NAME!?!?!? That makes no sense.

By Bruno

April 30, 2008 2:03 PM | Link to this

Actually Bruno, most of those metals are easily recyclable. There is a big movement to get more people to recycle them. The guy that played “Al” on “Home Improvement” is the spokesperson. I can’t remember his actual name. As for nuclear waste, We are currently building a facility in the desert that will hold all of the nuclear waste that we could produce in a thousand years or more. I think nuclear is a really good idea to replace oil-fired facilities. Clean coal is another technology that could replace oil with something we have available here in the US.

Personally, chuck, I’d prefer to err on the side of caution and not create extremely toxic waste products in the first place. The half-life of radioactive waste is millions of years. I understand that our current strategy is to bury nuclear waste deep in the ground surrounded by walls of concrete. You may trust that, or may not care about what future generations will have to deal with, but I do. I think a better solution would be to jettison the waste out into space.

should we assume you also laugh at poopie jokes, think the “pull my finger” gag is hilarious, and have your own recipe for fake vomit? That’s about the same level of comedy as the other…

Though my own taste in comedy is somewhat sophomoric, I don’t think bathroom jokes are all that funny either, Mara. I just wonder if chuck realizes how much he is hurting the conservative cause with his focus on Obama’s name. BTW, are you going to vote for Obama since Ron Paul is out? For some reason, I don’t picture you voting for Bob Barr, the official Libertarian candidate.

By Copyleft

April 30, 2008 2:06 PM | Link to this

Chuck’s just trying to provoke ignorant fear. It’s really all the far right has left to work with, after all—and it’s a proven vote-getter for the GOP!

Good luck with it, chuck. Most Americans have woken up from the Bush/neocon/fascist nightmare. Your tired tactics just aren’t playing to Middle America any more. Only the talk-radio kooks are listening.

By Bruno

April 30, 2008 2:08 PM | Link to this

A better educated public will demand a better educated media. Until we start throwing down the “bs” card on some of the things that pass for news reporting these days, this trend will continue. Of course, in some ways, the public already has thrown down the “bs” card. Newspaper sales and ratings of mainstream media evening news are down dramatically. Perhaps, once these former bastions of news have shuffled off into the sunset, something more in-depth, more balanced, more detailed and more intelligent will take their place. Personally, I can’t wait.

Howdy, Sandy_G, and welcome to W2W. You appear to have a lot to say, so hope you stick around.

Bruno, HOW IS IT RACIST TO CALL THE MAN BY HIS ACTUAL NAME!?!?!? That makes no sense.

I’ll let you figure that one out, chuck.

By Newzwyre

April 30, 2008 2:11 PM | Link to this

Bruno - I wouldn’t take Ahmadinejad’s word on ANYTHING

I wouldn’t take his word either, but I don’t know what that has to do with anything. Ahmadinejad isn’t the President of OPEC.

How can you fault companies for embracing technologies which are economically unfeasible?? A better way is coming, but until said better ways are actually more cost-effective to implement, it makes sense to go with the status quo

I don’t fault them. But I do think that if you take “profit” out of the equation, innovation has a better chance of flourishing. To your point about individuals driving discovery - check out this article on perpetual motion and free energy - http://www.thestar.com/Business/article/300042

they all utilize extremely toxic metals, like cadmium, to construct the batteries with.

those florescent bulbs they’ve been pushing on us contain murcury, too. You’re gonna have to call a Hazmat team every time you accidently break a bulb!! :)

By Archie

April 30, 2008 2:17 PM | Link to this

Chuck why get mad at Mara and Bruno for simply calling you out on your behavior? Both of them are telling you to move on in their own way. Did they say something that’s really true, I mean did they hit a nerve?

Warren Buffet also says the economy is headed for a recession and some others that I won’t mention yet but it’s definitely not just the media pushing bad news.

By chuck

April 30, 2008 2:19 PM | Link to this

Funny people.

By chuck

April 30, 2008 2:23 PM | Link to this

Hmmmmm, Bruno says that it HURTS the Republican cause.

Copyleft says it is a PROVEN REPUBLICAN VOTE GETTER.

I’m so confused.

By Bruno

April 30, 2008 2:24 PM | Link to this

Good luck with it, chuck. Most Americans have woken up from the Bush/neocon/fascist nightmare. Your tired tactics just aren’t playing to Middle America any more. Only the talk-radio kooks are listening.

I’ll tell you what, CopyLeft. In honor of your feelings toward Bush, I’m going to dig into my somewhat small 90s angry rock collection and play some Stone Temple Pilots for you. Hopefully, lyingsnake and whats-her-name will enjoy it also:

waiting on a Sunday afternoon

for what I read between the lines,

your lies.

feelin’ like a hand in rusted shame

so do you laugh or does it cry?

reply?

.

leavin’ on a southern train

only yesterday you lied,

promises of what I seemed to be

only watched the time go by,

all of these things you said to me.

.

breathing is the hardest thing

to do. with all I’ve said and

all that’s dead for you,

you lied - good bye

By Mara

April 30, 2008 2:27 PM | Link to this

…from people who actually think that it matters.

Nobody thinks it matters, chuck, and that’s the problem with you folks hitting on it over and over and over. Like someone wrote in an earlier post, it’s a distraction. It’s annoying because people like you put so much energy into incessantly harping on stupid s** like this.

If you want to talk about how his life as a fatherless child impacts who he is now, fine. If you want to question whether the three years of elementary education at a public school in Indonesia has had an effect on his world view, fine. If you want to ask about his past, a-okay. It’s all fair game. But to mock his NAME? It’s just juvenile, petty, and stupid. It’s what bully’s do to the kids with the “funny” names.

By Bruno

April 30, 2008 2:36 PM | Link to this

I wouldn’t take his word either, but I don’t know what that has to do with anything. Ahmadinejad isn’t the President of OPEC.

Sorry about that, Newz. Although your post did refer to the President of OPEC, I think it was USinUK who earlier referenced some statements by Ahmy. I stand corrected.

I’m trying to read your link regarding perpetual motion, but it won’t go through so far. I’m sure you’re aware that perpetual motion is believed to be an impossibility within our current understanding of Physics—at least macro-Physics. “Brownian motion”, which Einstein “discovered”, seems to have a perpetual motion component to it, however.

I’m so confused.

A rare moment of honesty for you, chuck. In case yu forgot, it’s not the hard-core let wingers who always vote Democrat, or the hard-core right wingers who always vote Republican that actually decide elections. It’s the middle-grounders, to whom your racist appeals do nothing but turn them away from McCain.

By Truth

April 30, 2008 2:41 PM | Link to this

Copyleft

Of COURSE the Republican/fasicsts are racist; that much is obvious.

I love it. I could list literally thousands of atrocities that were committed by Democrats on African Americans.

Richard Nixon invented affirmative action. He also was one of four Republican Senators who risked their own political career in order to revise the original voting rights act of 1872 and fix the issue that allowed a democratic Congress in 1874 to declare the act unconstitutional.

He and the Republican Minority insisted that this revised Voting rights act be adopted in spite of repeated attempts by democrats, including JFK to water down the act and finally, in spite of a filibuster by Democrats, the act was passed by the vote of several more Republicans than democrats.

Flash forward, Clinton had one Black man in his cabinet and he died. Bush appoints the most powerful unelected person in the world, third in line for the presidency to, first a Black man and then to a Black woman.

But it is the Republicans that are the racist. LOL!!

So blabber on, Pal. I’m sure most liberals here will just nod and agree with you. Why question what is accepted knowledge among the less educated and most gullible.

Read this slowly. Maybe then you will get it.

Rev. Wright is costing Barack Obama the presidency. Not John McCain. Not FOX News. Not Hillary Clinton. Rev. Jeremiah Wright. And when it is all over, you will stumble along with the rest of Wright’s supporters and blame it all on the evil Republicans. Wright is seeing a huge amount of power coming his way, and people like you are giving him that power. Another Jessie Jackson in the making. You must be very proud.

By chuck

April 30, 2008 2:48 PM | Link to this

Archie, I couldn’t care less what they say about me. I’m just pointing out how stupid it is to get on to someone for calling someone by THEIR NAME. Since you responded to Truth, does that mean that he hit a nerve when he called YOU a racist?

By Truth

April 30, 2008 2:53 PM | Link to this

Everyone

If Chuck’s use of his middle name is so unimportant, why are you all going nuts about it. Seems he is hitting a nerve.

You guys can keep screaming into the night that none of this matters: all his lies about his youth, his incredibly exclusive private school which he attended in Hawaii, (which he has told countless lies about), how he was conceived during the Selma March, even though he was already 4 years old when it happened. Want to see 50 Obama lies. They are all over the internet.

I understand your anger. I also understand why you think none of this matters. Unfortunately for you a lot of people do look at what a person does as opposed to what he says.

By Archie

April 30, 2008 2:57 PM | Link to this

A rare moment of honesty for you, chuck. In case yu forgot, it’s not the hard-core let wingers who always vote Democrat, or the hard-core right wingers who always vote Republican that actually decide elections That’s true Bruno because the polls show a 46 to 46 tie between Obama and McCain which leaves 8 percent undecided or unknown. It is interesting that you and Mara are getting on Chuck for doing the very thing McCain asked not to be done.

By chuck

April 30, 2008 3:03 PM | Link to this

It’s annoying because people like you put so much energy into incessantly harping on stupid s* like this.*

I don’t put ANY energy into it. I have it on the clipboard and just paste it everytime I want to use his name. I appreciate the concern, though. Watch:

Barack Hussein Obama Barack Hussein Obama Barack Hussein Obama Barack Hussein Obama Barack Hussein Obama Barack Hussein Obama Barack Hussein Obama Barack Hussein Obama Barack Hussein Obama Barack Hussein Obama Barack Hussein Obama Barack Hussein Obama Barack Hussein Obama Barack Hussein Obama Barack Hussein Obama Barack Hussein Obama Barack Hussein Obama Barack Hussein Obama Barack Hussein Obama Barack Hussein Obama Barack Hussein Obama . I did that in 3 seconds. See no energy at all.

NOW THAT IS JUVENILE!!!

By Bruno

April 30, 2008 3:05 PM | Link to this

Rev. Wright is costing Barack Obama the presidency. Not John McCain. Not FOX News. Not Hillary Clinton. Rev. Jeremiah Wright. And when it is all over, you will stumble along with the rest of Wright’s supporters and blame it all on the evil Republicans. Wright is seeing a huge amount of power coming his way, and people like you are giving him that power. Another Jessie Jackson in the making. You must be very proud.

From my perspective, Truth, this election seems to hinge on who shoots themselves in the foot the least, rather than who has a better vision for America, unfortunately. McCain is being pretty smart, IMO, by staying OUT of the spotlight, and letting Hillary and Wright destroy Obama. Of course, with his “guns and religion” comment, Obama didn’t help his cause much either.

P.S. to both Truth and chuck—Please don’t start a flaming war with Archie. His input is valuable here, and I’d hate to see you guys run him off by trying to prove who is more racist. Ok? If neither of you truly ARE racist, his accusations shouldn’t bother either of you as much as it appears it does. We’re all good people here.

By Mara

April 30, 2008 3:09 PM | Link to this

Bruno - I don’t know who I’m going to vote for.

McCain lost me when he refused to stand against torture. He’s already got demerits for his pandering to the illegal aliens, his hot-headedness, his anti-choice positions, and his “bomb-bomb-bomb Iran” idiocy.

Clinton has waaayyyy too much of that BushCo “if you don’t need to know I ain’t gonna tell ya…and I might not even tell ya if you do need to know” attitude. She seems almost Nixonian to me. Maybe that’s not a fair assessment, but there it is.

It might end up Obama by default if he’s the nominee. After all, he’s the only one of the major party candidates who hasn’t p** me off yet. And the constant petty attacks tend to push me that way too.

As for Barr, I dunno. Since he’s left Washington he’s kinda lost the mouth foaming fanaticism. He’s joined the ACLU and he a founder of the American Freedom Agenda. And he was in Borat. On the other hand, he’s Bob Barr…bbbbbrrrrr! American Spectator, DOMA, the legislation to ban Wiccans from the Armed Forces, anti-woman…ugh. Too much baggage, not enough atonement. He’s been so reasonable in the last few years, one forgets how horrifying he’s been.

I don’t know. We’ll see what we have to choose from come November.

By Archie

April 30, 2008 3:10 PM | Link to this

Chuck,it doesn’t bother me that you call Barack by his full name but Mara,Bruno, and the presidential candidate you like have a problem with it because they understand the motivation behind it. You have also said you are a christian and you’ve quoted scripture, well, let the behavior match the rhetoric. I am also starting to wonder if Lozen is right about some other things…

By Bruno

April 30, 2008 3:11 PM | Link to this

It is interesting that you and Mara are getting on Chuck for doing the very thing McCain asked not to be done.

Hopefully, you recognize that I don’t reserve my criticisms for just one side of the political aisle, Archie.

Although it may have been a distraction for some of the others, I enjoyed talking music with you yesterday. Music is a universal healer, something we all hopefully agree upon.

Please keep on posting, and ignore chuck and Truth with their rants about who is more racist. We’re all in this thing together.

By Bruno

April 30, 2008 3:18 PM | Link to this

McCain lost me when he refused to stand against torture. He’s already got demerits for his pandering to the illegal aliens, his hot-headedness, his anti-choice positions, and his “bomb-bomb-bomb Iran” idiocy.

Wait a minute, I’ve seen McCain come out strongly AGAINST waterboarding several times. Did I miss something? Maybe he equivocated in the past, like he did regarding the MLK holiday, but I’d rather deal with someone who can admit mistakes and correct their positions than someone who ALWAYS “stays the course”, come heck or high water.

It might end up Obama by default if he’s the nominee. After all, he’s the only one of the major party candidates who hasn’t p* me off yet. And the constant petty attacks tend to push me that way too*.

Are you listening, chuck? What happened to the reasonable New Chuck who made several intelligent posts to open the week??

As for Barr, I dunno. Since he’s left Washington he’s kinda lost the mouth foaming fanaticism. He’s joined the ACLU and he a founder of the American Freedom Agenda. And he was in Borat. On the other hand, he’s Bob Barr…bbbbbrrrrr! American Spectator, DOMA, the legislation to ban Wiccans from the Armed Forces, anti-woman…ugh. Too much baggage, not enough atonement. He’s been so reasonable in the last few years, one forgets how horrifying he’s been.

I’ve noticed some positive changes in Barr as well, especially in his admittance that The War On Drugs is a sham. My best guess is that he’s running for purely egotistical reasons right now, since he can only take votes away from McCain, and has no chance of winning.

BTW, you’ve never mentioned any musical interests. Who do you listen to, if anyone?

By chuck

April 30, 2008 3:21 PM | Link to this

It is interesting that you and Mara are getting on Chuck for doing the very thing McCain asked not to be done.

On this particular issue, McCain’s an idiot. Everybody knows he’s pandering. That turns more people off than honesty.

By Mara

April 30, 2008 3:40 PM | Link to this

Wait a minute, I’ve seen McCain come out strongly AGAINST waterboarding several times. Did I miss something?

google - McCain torture Feinstein amendment

that should give you a bunch of different views, but basically he voted against holding to the Geneva Convention rules and the Army Field manual interrogation limitations. To me, it’s no different than voting FOR waterboarding, stress positions, assault, environmental extremes, forced drugging, sleep deprivation and all the rest.

By Lyrazel

April 30, 2008 3:44 PM | Link to this

Chuck: Actually presidential candidate’s middle name is is not important nor is their shoe size. Hussein, Sidney or Diane it just does not matter. What does matter is how effective they will be in the role, dontcha think? Random thought: If Hillary Diane Clinton does win she is going to be standing with a whole lot of democrats who turned away from her to endorse another candidate. This means quite a number of incumbent senators & congressmen will not have her ear for their earmarks if/when she gets elected because a publicly spurned woman is hardly going to forget. If Barack Hussein Obama wins he is got a lot of incumbent earmark junkies on his back who want favors for the privilege of the endorsement. If John Sidney McCain wins he has all those Republicans already in office jobs and won’t be able to clean house except for the real Bush cronies.

Show & Tell time people: who will be #2? Think the 3 have made their choice already?

By Truth

April 30, 2008 3:48 PM | Link to this

bruno

His accusations or racism don’t bother me. In the last 10 years, at least 80% of my client base has been African American and that is because I have a business partner who is an African American. I have traveled the world with this guy and have seen him raise two beautiful girls, put them through Spellman and now they are both very successful. I know who I am and what I believe.

People like Archie and Copyleft are the problem. Most schools that have a majority of Black students are more poorly funded than the old segregated schools use to be. 60-80% of Black babies are born out of wedlock. The problems go on and on and on, but these bozos continue to talk about problems of 30, 50, even 500 years ago. It is the mantra of bigots like Wright.

Lets ignore Clayton County where the school board can’t even keep the schools going and the head of the system gets obscene money with the ability to take 45% of his working days off. (See today’s AJC) but let”s talk about some imagined problem with Black people being persecuted for being Christians and for celebrating their African heritage. (When has that happened in our lifetime?) Let’s talk about soldiers coming home from Iraq, but can’t eat at a Woolworth’s counter. (Woolworths haven’t had lunch counters since the 70s)

Every Black person I know is furious with Wright. They have watched the numbers and have seen Obama’s 9 point lead over McCain wither to a dead even race. That decrease perfectly parallels the Wright controversy, but how many posts just this week says that Wright means nothing to this race.

The GOP hasn’t even started the race and is dead even with Obama. As a Republican, I would just as soon see them hide their heads in the sand. I think it is good that a few uneducated people will support Wright and give him even more power that he can abuse.

Archie and Copyleft are good for Republicans, but not so good for Democrats. As long as Wright is in the picture, Obama doesn’t have a prayer and people like Copyleft and Archie apparently aren’t smart enough to see that.

So … Archie, Copyleft, you go!! Send Wright money . . lots of money. I may send him some myself.

By chuck

April 30, 2008 3:51 PM | Link to this

Bruno, who said anything about being racist. I answered Archie with the same logic he used to address me. My point was that he was no more bothered by Truth’s comment than I was by yours and Mara’s. Some of ya’ll need to READ the posts and stop READING INTO the posts.

By Bruno

April 30, 2008 4:07 PM | Link to this

that should give you a bunch of different views, but basically he voted against holding to the Geneva Convention rules and the Army Field manual interrogation limitations. To me, it’s no different than voting FOR waterboarding, stress positions, assault, environmental extremes, forced drugging, sleep deprivation and all the rest.

I know you’re leaving for the day, Mara, but I will check that out. I vividly remember him disagreeing with the treatment of the “prisoners” held at Guantanamo Bay, specifically saying that they were human beings who needed to be treated with dignity, regardless of the circumstances.

His accusations or racism don’t bother me. In the last 10 years, at least 80% of my client base has been African American and that is because I have a business partner who is an African American. I have traveled the world with this guy and have seen him raise two beautiful girls, put them through Spellman and now they are both very successful. I know who I am and what I believe.

I believe you, Truth. Don’t forget that perception can often be stronger than reality, however. I think you could help the conservative cause more by focusing on Obama’s voting record and proposed solutions for America than by remarks hid former pastor said.

Archie and Copyleft are good for Republicans, but not so good for Democrats. As long as Wright is in the picture, Obama doesn’t have a prayer and people like Copyleft and Archie apparently aren’t smart enough to see that.

If that’s true, then try to have the patience to let that strategy work without poisoning the waters with your own questionable statements. We’re on the same side here, Truth.

You have also said you are a christian and you’ve quoted scripture, well, let the behavior match the rhetoric.

Archie, that’s a tall order for anyone to fill. Personally, I’ve always been suspicious of folks who go to great lengths to proclaim their Christianity. Like Shakespeare said “Methinks thou doest protest too much”. No offense, chuck. ; > }

By Bruno

April 30, 2008 4:12 PM | Link to this

Show & Tell time people: who will be #2? Think the 3 have made their choice already?

Great question, Lyrazel. For McCain, I think the two logical choices will be either Condi or Mitt Romney in order to shore up the far-right wing core constituency.

On the Dem side, I used to think it would be smart for Hillary to lead the ticket with Obama as VP. Now, I don’t think they can get along well enough to team up.

P.S. I’ve often been referred to as #2. ; > }

P.P.S. Things are going well with the ex-GF. We can’t go back in time at this point, but I’m hoping for a new friendship.

By Truth

April 30, 2008 4:20 PM | Link to this

bruno

This whole thing started because I asked USinUK about Wrights latest string of appearances. Archie launched into making it a racial matter (wow, never saw that one coming)

You are right in that perceptions are important. And since this post is basically you, me and Chuck being the only conservatives against the “gang” I doubt if we will ever be considered anything that would be considered complimentary.

I have already put the top down and I am heading for my sweety’s, so I am done for today anyway.

BTW, how’s that camera rig working out?

By Archie

April 30, 2008 4:22 PM | Link to this

My point was that he was no more bothered by Truth’s comment than I was by yours and Mara’s. That’s a true statement Chuck but you did seem to get mighty defensive towards those two(Bruno,Mara).

Hopefully, you recognize that I don’t reserve my criticisms for just one side of the political aisle, Archie. Yes, I recognize that but please don’t put everything in a liberal versus conservative box!!!

Although it may have been a distraction for some of the others, I enjoyed talking music with you yesterday. Music is a universal healer, something we all hopefully agree upon. You mentioned some good stuff.

Please keep on posting, and ignore chuck and Truth with their rants about who is more racist. We’re all in this thing together. I will keep on posting as I see fit and there may be weeks when I don’t post because I don’t like the topic or I am too busy.

By Bruno

April 30, 2008 4:33 PM | Link to this

Newz—I just got through to the link you provided regarding perpetual motion. Unfortunately, it was more of a “human interest” article, and didn’t get into the mechanics of how his magnetic accelerator worked. I’ll try to keep an ear to the ground on that one.

The only other news stories today that interested me were the 1/4 point cut in the federal funds rate by the Feds today, lowering it to only 2%. It appears the FRB is doing all it can to jumpstart the economy. Also, David Blaine held his breath for more than 17 minutes on the Oprah show today. Pretty amazing.

BTW, how’s that camera rig working out?

I’ve only taken a few pictures thus far, since I’m not back to work yet. Thanks for asking. Good luck with your date today.

I will keep on posting as I see fit and there may be weeks when I don’t post because I don’t like the topic or I am too busy.

Hopefully, I’ll be too busy to post again one day. I really don’t like not working, and am actively looking for a good opportunity. Enjoyed chatting with you today, Archie.

By USinUK

May 1, 2008 8:44 AM | Link to this

Want to see 50 Obama lies. They are all over the internet.

and everyone knows, if it’s on the Internet, it must be true.

By USinUK

May 1, 2008 9:48 AM | Link to this

hey … lookit that … more sterling news on the economy …

May 1 (Bloomberg) — U.S. consumer spending rose more than forecast in March, reflecting an increase in prices that is eroding Americans’ buying power.

The 0.4 percent gain followed a 0.1 percent increase the prior month, the Commerce Department said today in Washington. Stripping out the impact of inflation, spending advanced 0.1 percent after staying unchanged in February.

Today’s figures also showed that the Federal Reserve’s preferred measure of consumer prices rose more than anticipated, underscoring an emerging threat from inflation. Fed policy makers yesterday signaled they are ready to pause their series of interest-rate cuts as some former officials warn about stoking price pressures.

-snip-

Today’s data was incorporated in the Commerce Department’s report on gross domestic product yesterday, which showed that consumer spending rose at a 1 percent annual pace last quarter, the weakest since the 2001 recession. GDP rose 0.6 percent in the period, the same as in the previous three months, marking the slowest six months of expansion in seven years.

Jobless Claims

The Labor Department reported separately that first-time claims for unemployment insurance rose more than forecast last week, to 380,000. The total number of Americans receiving benefits climbed to 3.019 million, the highest level since April 2004.

-snip-

A report tomorrow is forecast to show payrolls shrank in April for a fourth month, which combined with record fuel prices and slumping home values, indicates spending may slow.

… but, yeah … it’s all just media hype …

By Truth

May 1, 2008 10:09 AM | Link to this

USinUk

Did you see Hillery on O’Reilly last night? You know how I feel about her, but she was impressive as hell. Rosy O’Donald was so intimidated by him that she was viably shaken. Clinton stood toe to toe and did not dodge or duck questions.

I think she had the questions beforehand, but she obviously did not choose them. She was stronger in her answers than McCain was against Stephanopolis.

Obama is avoiding debating her again and he completely shuns FOX, the most watched cable news in America.

Tell me the super delegates aren’t watching all of this.

By chuck

May 1, 2008 10:15 AM | Link to this

Truth said something yesterday that started me thinking:

Most schools that have a majority of Black students are more poorly funded than the old segregated schools use to be. 60-80% of Black babies are born out of wedlock.

The first part of that paragraph is false. Majority Black schools are actually funded at a higher rate per student than racially balanced schools or majority white schools. This occurs for a number of reasons, but it primarily has to do with the funding formula used in Georgia and Federal Education dollars. In any event, MOST predominantly Black schools in Georgia are funded at about $2000.00 more PER STUDENT. If they are identified as Title I schools, it’s about $3500-$4000 per student more. As interesting as that is, I wanted to look at the second statement he made.

There have been a number of studies completed lately about the effect of single parent families on kids and the news is NOT GOOD. The research confirms what I have been seeing in the classroom for the past 10-12 years. Here are some facts gleaned from the studies:

Thirty six percent of single female–headed families, 6 per­cent of married-couple families are in poverty.

92 percent of children whose families make over $75,000 are living with their two par­ents.

Only 20 percent of children living under $15,000 are living with both parents.

children from single-parent families—both as a result of divorce and as a result of non-marriage—are more prone to school failure, delinquency, crime, early pregnancy, emotional dif­ficulties, and a host of other problems.

sin­gle mothers tend to be less child-centered; their chil­dren watch more TV; they don’t oversee homework as much as married mothers. The children of single mothers are less likely to go to college.

Children from step families don’t look a whole lot better than those from single-mother households. Those kids are not as likely to be poor, but they have more problems in school, with drugs, with early sexual activity.

According to a study by an Ohio State economist comparing mar­ried couples and singles and divorced, the average net wealth of married couples increases 16 percent a year; after 15 years, their net worth is 93 percent higher than singles or divorced.

If you want to know what is wrong with our economy, THIS IS IT. The studies estimate that single parent homes cost other federal tax payers approximately $120 BILLION dollars a year. While I worry about those costs and it is important that we fix this problem for THAT reason, it is even more important that we take steps to solve the problem to help these kids. In spite of all the federal programs that are supposedly addressing the problems, the truth is that they DON’T WORK. The problem is getting worse not better. The root of the problem is how people view MARRIAGE.

The statistics show that children in homes where both parents are present, BUT NOT MARRIED, exhibit many of the same problems as children in single parent homes. In 2 parent households with children from different parents, (so-called “blended families”) SAME THING.

One person put it this way. “The problem is becoming so apparent that even the Sociologists are beginning to believe it.” We have a real interest in putting our minds together to find a solution. Government is decidedly NOT THE ANSWER. I think that it will involve a real community effort.

There are some things that help. For one thing, women who have a college degree are just as likely to marry as women who don’t have the degree, but they are 80% LESS LIKELY to divorce. Another promising solution is PRE-MARITAL Counselling. The statistics are very favorable. Third, and I know I’m going to catch flack for this one, PEOPLE HAVE GOT TO QUIT SHACKING UP. Co-habiting couples are MUCH MORE LIKELY to divorce than those who don’t move in together prior to marriage. The statistics come from a variety of university level studies like Cornell, Ohio State and others. These are not from some “right-wing” Republican site. Ideas?

By USinUK

May 1, 2008 10:21 AM | Link to this

Truth …

Did you see Hillery on O’Reilly last night?

um. no. 1) no FOX that I’ve seen on our satellite system. 2) even if we had FOX, I run a No O’Reilley household (or NO’Reilley, if you like) - don’t like him - think he’s a blowhard.

Obama is avoiding debating her again and he completely shuns FOX

actually, he’s scheduled to be on with Chris Wallace sometime soon …

as for debates - after the last “debate” (using the term VERY loosely), neither of them should agree to a debate unless the host network promises to address their platforms rather than the stupid rumors, non-stories, and fluff that was discussed last time.

By Monica

May 1, 2008 10:25 AM | Link to this

Truth, I have to admit that I too have been impressed with Hillary’s carriage of late. She stands undaunted, or at least gives that impression.

By USinUK

May 1, 2008 10:35 AM | Link to this

chuck -

PEOPLE HAVE GOT TO QUIT SHACKING UP. Co-habiting couples are MUCH MORE LIKELY to divorce than those who don’t move in together prior to marriage

please, please, PLEASE learn the difference between cause and coincidence. just because 90% of all criminals chew gum doesn’t mean that chewing gum causes criminal behavior.

just because co-habitating couples are more likely to divorce doesn’t mean that “shacking up” CAUSES the divorce. if 2 people live together before they are married, they are probably more “liberal” on their views of divorce. in other words, they would probably divorce regardless of whether they lived together or not because they don’t believe in the stigma of a divorce.

By Single Mommy

May 1, 2008 10:50 AM | Link to this

Chuck, thank you so much for your useful input. Do you know where I can borrow a time machine so I can go back to the early 90s and have an ABORTION? Who knew raising a child was such a sin? I thought my little b******* honor student was doing just fine at the top of the class, in student government, and year round sports, but I never knew how badly I screwed up until you were so kind to point it out. THANKS! (P.S. one reason my little b******* child is so well adjusted is that I keep away from hate-filled, narrow-minded judgmental Baptist hypocrites and the garbage they spew about women like Mommy.)

By chuck

May 1, 2008 11:08 AM | Link to this

Actually he was on with Chris Wallace last Sunday.

By chuck

May 1, 2008 11:18 AM | Link to this

OH, SHUT UP!!!!

He’s sure not doing well because his mother is mature and level headed now is he? You get more irrational with every post. You seriously need to get into counselling.

Did I say EVERY CHILD? Is it possible for you to have a rational discussion on ANY TOPIC?

uusk, I don’t believe that I called that a CAUSE-EFFECT. The proper term is statistical significance. Well designed studies obviously control for as many variables as they can. It doesn’t much matter what their opinion about divorce is, the bottom line is that if they do divorce and they have children, statistically, KIMBERLY those kids are going to have a hard time making it in this world.

By Truth

May 1, 2008 11:25 AM | Link to this

USinUK

actually, he’s scheduled to be on with Chris Wallace sometime soon

He was on last Sunday. He was OK, but not that impressive. O’Reilly badgers and that is disruptive to any media training. Once a candidate answers a question, they expect the interviewer to move on. O’Reilly doesn’t do that. He lets them speak the spin, but then asks them again. It’s hard to spin twice. (The No Spin Zone?)

as for debates - after the last “debate” (using the term VERY loosely), neither of them should agree to a debate unless the host network promises to address their platforms rather than the stupid rumors, non-stories, and fluff that was discussed last time.

These “non-stories” are changing the election. Obama is in a free fall because of these “non stories.” He has lost 9 points against McCain since the Rev. Wright story appeared.

If these were non-stories, people would not be changing their perspective.

As much as we would all like it, we cannot decide what people are interested in. The candidates cannot choose the networks that will avoid sore spots in their campaign.

Platforms can be listed on websites. (Even though you need to register for reams of spam in order to even access Obama’s site) People want to see what happens when candidates are presented with hard questions, not softball tosses that just set up pat, scripted answers.

By Copyleft

May 1, 2008 11:29 AM | Link to this

More lies from The Lies!

“Obama is avoiding debating her again”

Wrong; he’s already debated her 21 times. She’s only beggins for yet another debate because she’s losing.

“and he completely shuns FOX, the most watched cable news in America.”

Wrong again; he had an interview with Chris Matthews just this weekend (a mistake, in my opinion, since it lends credence to the notion that Fox has something to do with actual journalism).

“Tell me the super delegates aren’t watching all of this.”

I certainly hope so; more are signing up with Obama every day.

By USinUK

May 1, 2008 11:30 AM | Link to this

chuck -

I don’t believe that I called that a CAUSE-EFFECT

by saying “PEOPLE HAVE GOT TO QUIT SHACKING UP. Co-habiting couples are MUCH MORE LIKELY to divorce than those who don’t move in together prior to marriage” you are, in fact, saying there is a cause (shacking up) and effect (divorce).

I do, however, agree with you that pre-marital counseling is a VERY good thing and (I think) could head a lot of problems off at the pass - things like how to fight fair, whether to have kids or not/how many, housework, sex, family … they’re a lot of the hot-button issues that many couples either assume the other person feels the same as they do or they know they don’t, so don’t want to discuss it.

By Copyleft

May 1, 2008 11:31 AM | Link to this

Sorry, that’s WALLACE, not Matthews.

By Archie

May 1, 2008 11:33 AM | Link to this

PEOPLE HAVE GOT TO QUIT SHACKING UP. Co-habiting couples are MUCH MORE LIKELY to divorce than those who don’t move in together prior to marriage. The statistics come from a variety of university level studies like Cornell, Ohio State and others. These are not from some “right-wing” Republican site. Ideas? Chuck is not the only person who said this. I have said this so I guess I will get bashed too. I have never shacked and I know that my personal opinion is not for everybody. I know that some couples do quite well while shacking up and there are multiple reasons for shacking up, however, I am a baptist and although liberal leaning I don’t like shacking up. Here in South Carolina there is a legal movement to do away with common law marriage. People can now drive anywhere and there are no more laws against interracial marriage so basically other than personal preference there’s no reason for shacking. People like Oprah, and others that shack are different in that they have multiple lawyers all capable of keeping order but the average person doesn’t have multiple lawyers on retainer and when the break up comes confusion comes with it. Just one of the reasons for marriage as the gay people know is that it establishes order,i.e. who can visit when someone is sick or who makes decisions about health, property,etc, it’s not just about love.

By Truth

May 1, 2008 11:34 AM | Link to this

Monica

I never liked the woman because I always felt that she married into her position. But damn. Lately she has been a great candidate. She is fearless.

And she is also much better trained than Obama. She has a naturalness about her that hides all that training while Obama still looks very deliberate with all his stances and “presidential” poses. They all are trained to do that, but it comes natural to so few people.

I think she could beat McCain.

Once again, I am giving opinions of the situation. I didn’t make the situations and I will vote for the Republican, but she was very impressive last night. Her interviiew is on FOX’s websight. The second half is tonight.

I know you would cringe when you watch it, (FOX and all) but you might want to check it out.

By Single Mommy

May 1, 2008 11:37 AM | Link to this

Chuck, since there’s only one of me doing the job, and two of you at your household, then I’m doing TWICE as well as you are with half the resources, so why don’t YOU shut the eff up, huh? I know plenty of people, men AND women who married in good faith, reproduced, and were left trying to manage the kids all alone.

Don’t you have anything better to do than blame the problems of the world on the orgasmically capable? The government starting wars and plunging us into debt to scary countries where people have no rights doesn’t bother you at all, but GOD FORBID, we should have affordable health care for single-parent familes, ‘cause that really chaps your behind, huh? Geezuss, get a freaking life, you big bag of flatulent wind.

By USinUK

May 1, 2008 11:44 AM | Link to this

Truth -

If these were non-stories, people would not be changing their perspective.

people don’t care about the flag pin non-story.

people don’t care about his bowling score.

he has repudiated Rev. Wright and ONLY RECENTLY have his numbers started falling - about the time Wright started a media blitz.

if you read reviews of the crap PA “debate”, NO ONE stood up and cheered it, saying AT LAST, someone is asking the questions I want to have answered (well, 2 people stood up and cheered - Stephanopolis and whatshisname). otherwise, they were soundly trounced for spending so much time on things that don’t matter.

fact is, he’s still leading Clinton in the polls - yeah, Wright has knocked him about this last couple of weeks, but he’s still ahead (with a few more super-delegates recently added to the list).

By Truth

May 1, 2008 11:50 AM | Link to this

Copyleft

Wrong again; he had an interview with Chris Matthews just this weekend (a mistake, in my opinion, since it lends credence to the notion that Fox has something to do with actual journalism).

As a 29 year veteran of the American media who has worked for almost every major news outlet in the world, including the BBC, CNN, The NHK, Network Ten-Australia, Sky-news, ABC, CBS, NBC and FOX, I can tell you without a doubt, FOX is as real as anyone else.

Because they do not lean toward your own political stance may discredit them to you, but that certainly doesn’t mean that they are not a real news network.

So for Obama to appear that means that he must also recognize what I just said to be true.

By Bruno

May 1, 2008 11:51 AM | Link to this

I do, however, agree with you that pre-marital counseling is a VERY good thing and (I think) could head a lot of problems off at the pass - things like how to fight fair, whether to have kids or not/how many, housework, sex, family … they’re a lot of the hot-button issues that many couples either assume the other person feels the same as they do or they know they don’t, so don’t want to discuss it.

I’ve been married before AND have “shacked up”, and have to say that I prefer marriage. IMO, it’s a much more solid commitment and allows each partner to relax more.

As for counseling, I wish that I shared your optimism, USinUK. Pre-marital counseling only works if the people being counseled are both HONEST and have a WILLINGNESS to work together. If both of those components are in place, counseling probably isn’t needed in the first place.

When I felt like my own marriage was in trouble, I suggested marriage counseling. Unfortunately, we went to a “Christian” counselor who wasn’t worth a hill of beans. The counselor’s main concern seemed to be to run the bill up as high as possible.

By Bruno

May 1, 2008 11:58 AM | Link to this

She has a naturalness about her that hides all that training while Obama still looks very deliberate with all his stances and “presidential” poses. They all are trained to do that, but it comes natural to so few people

Truth, I feel differently than you do regarding the “naturalness” of Obama and Hillary. Obama comes across to me as serious and reflective. Hillary’s demeanor screams “fake” at every turn. Just my opinion, though.

people don’t care about his bowling score

Actually, I thought the highlight of the Dem contest so far was when Hillary suggested they settle the primary via a bowling match. Laughed my butt off at that one. I also enjoyed the video of Hill knocking back a few shots. Kind of turned me on in some strange way.

By Archie

May 1, 2008 12:01 PM | Link to this

Wrong; he’s already debated her 21 times. She’s only beggins for yet another debate because she’s losing. I think that’s true and I voted for her in the primary.

fact is, he’s still leading Clinton in the polls - yeah, Wright has knocked him about this last couple of weeks, but he’s still ahead (with a few more super-delegates recently added to the list). That’s true USinUk but let me say this the initial enthusiam over Obama was based on emotion and I knew that would not last and that’s really why his numbers dropped because it doesn’t take much to distract someone politically when they’ve based their vote on emotionalism. People that are genuinely interested in Obama and his actual views will vote for him otherwise they won’t.

By Bruno

May 1, 2008 12:05 PM | Link to this

since there’s only one of me doing the job, and two of you at your household, then I’m doing TWICE as well as you are with half the resources

While you are to be commended for raising an outstanding child, do you not agree that the BEST home environment involves two parents? Although it would be a stretch to create laws against single-parenthood, I think the permissive attitude toward it via TV and Hollywood isn’t helping. The reality of single-parenthood isn’t glamorous at all, as your statement shows.

What ideas do you have to encourage parents to get married and to stay together, Single Mom?

By USinUK

May 1, 2008 12:06 PM | Link to this

bruno -

As for counseling, I wish that I shared your optimism, USinUK. Pre-marital counseling only works if the people being counseled are both HONEST and have a WILLINGNESS to work together.

well, that’s very true, of course. when my hubster and I got hitched (and yes, we shacked up when we were engaged … so stone me), we did the kind of pre-marital question where you each answer a questionnaire designed to gauge your attitudes about all the hot-button issues (family, kids, sex, work, etc). Done correctly, the counselor should note where there’s a huge variance and get the couple to talk about it, stating their expectations, etc., to make sure everyone is on the same page when they say “I DO” - or, maybe raise the issue that they shouldn’t say “I DO” if they have serious problems.

But, that gets us back to my Relationship Law of Least Common Denominators - you can only be as involved as the least involved person. If you’re in counseling and one of you is NOT participating, then you’re just wasting time and money.

By Truth

May 1, 2008 12:07 PM | Link to this

USinUK

people don’t care about the flag pin non-story.

No. YOU don’t care about the pin story. Many people believe that story ties into other issues. Not everyone thinks like you, or me or anyone else.

people don’t care about his bowling score.

Are you sure?

he has repudiated Rev. Wright and ONLY RECENTLY have his numbers started falling - about the time Wright started a media blitz.

Exactly. It is a story, girl. Like it or not.

if you read reviews of the crap PA “debate”, NO ONE stood up and cheered it, saying AT LAST, someone is asking the questions I want to have answered (well, 2 people stood up and cheered - Stephanopolis and whatshisname). otherwise, they were soundly trounced for spending so much time on things that don’t matter.

They were soundly trounced by MoveOn.org who was convinced that the rev. Wright story meant nothing. But on the same front page that they wanted any visitors to MoveOn.org to sign a petition, stating that the Wright Story means nothing, they listed ten things everyone should know about McCain. Number nine was the fact that McCain had received an ENDORSEMENT from a relidge-o-nut that didn’t like Catholics. He didn’t support this nut with tens of thousands of dollars. He didn’t attend this nut’s church for 20 years. He didn’t subject his children to the teachings of this nut. He was just endorsed by this nut. And for that, everyone should now understand all about John McCain’s relationship with this nut.

And this was from the same organization that claims that the Wright story means nothing.

Fact is, he’s still leading Clinton in the polls - yeah, Wright has knocked him about this last couple of weeks, but he’s still ahead (with a few more super-delegates recently added to the list).

It’s p[robably too late for Clinton to beat him, but McCain hasn’t even started yet and Obama is dead even from a 9 point lead.

By USinUK

May 1, 2008 12:11 PM | Link to this

heading home! but, before I go … a few parting shots:

I also enjoyed the video of Hill knocking back a few shots. Kind of turned me on in some strange way.

okay. ewwww.

Obama comes across to me as serious and reflective. Hillary’s demeanor screams “fake” at every turn

agreed.

That’s true USinUk but let me say this the initial enthusiam over Obama was based on emotion and I knew that would not last and that’s really why his numbers dropped because it doesn’t take much to distract someone politically when they’ve based their vote on emotionalism

VERY good observation, Archie!

okay, guys and dolls … I’m off … hasta la pasta!

and HAPPY MAY DAY!!

By Bruno

May 1, 2008 12:15 PM | Link to this

I know plenty of people, men AND women who married in good faith, reproduced, and were left trying to manage the kids all alone.

Sadly, I’ve known more than one man who left his wife while she was pregnant, or shortly after the birth of their child. Worse than that, I’ve dated two women whose husbands left them when they found out their child was handicapped. Truly heart-breaking.

By Lyrazel

May 1, 2008 12:17 PM | Link to this

chuck: First problem I have with your statistic is that it dumps widows/widowers into the same lump—which is quite cruel when you think of it because death of a spouse is not deliberate lifestyle choice. My second problem is that it insinuates all single parent families contribute zero to the tax base—and we both know that is not true because even buying food is taxed in many states. Third problem I have is the survey counts same-sex couples (including those joined over 20+ years) as single parent households. My forth problem is the statistic lists numbers at 112% billion/year…or so it says when I googled it…

By chuck

May 1, 2008 12:18 PM | Link to this

I know plenty of people, men AND women who married in good faith, reproduced, and were left trying to manage the kids all alone.

Then you should agree with me peanut. My whole point was that we need to make sure that marriages work SO THAT DOESN’T HAPPEN. Geez Louise. We need to use the knowledge gained through this research to IMPROVE THINGS. If you would get the chip off your shoulders every once in awhile and THINK about what you read you may actually find that it makes sense. The histrionics are so unnecessary.

By Bruno

May 1, 2008 12:25 PM | Link to this

But, that gets us back to my Relationship Law of Least Common Denominators - you can only be as involved as the least involved person. If you’re in counseling and one of you is NOT participating, then you’re just wasting time and money.

Very true, USinUK. Ultimately, I think the “less-involved” person is actually more in control of the relationship. Don’t you love the power struggles that come with every relationship?

My only tip re: counseling is DON’T go to a “Christian” counselor. Bunch of phonies, IMO.

Happy May Day to you, too.

By Bruno

May 1, 2008 12:29 PM | Link to this

My whole point was that we need to make sure that marriages work SO THAT DOESN’T HAPPEN. Geez Louise. We need to use the knowledge gained through this research to IMPROVE THINGS.

Can you be a little more specific as to HOW you would keep people together, chuck. And please don’t bring religion into it (althoughI know you are going to).

By chuck

May 1, 2008 12:38 PM | Link to this

Lyrazel, you are correct on the 112 billion dollars. I misspoke. As for the contributions to the tax base, the figures are not gross cost, but net cost as I understand it after those things were taken into account. As for the cruelty of the statistics, I would have to disagree. The study was not done to place blame. It was done to find out the impact on society. Statistics are what they are…cold, hard numbers. Some people will use them, undoubtedly to slam single people. I am not trying to do that at all.

I see the results of divorce in my classroom ever day. These statistics show, what I and most teachers have recognized for years. THE BEST WAY to raise children is in a household where BOTH parents are married to and committed to each other. THAT, is a fact.

By Single Mommy

May 1, 2008 12:39 PM | Link to this

Chuck, I don’t mean to be unduly harsh (and I don’t think I was), but geez, give it a rest, already. The topic is about the economy, which can encompass a wide range of subtopics, but you come in YET AGAIN rambling about how single parents are the problem. What’s it TO ya, Mr. “I saved myself for marriage and neither of us will every stray because good churchies never stray, and anyone who does otherwise is scum!” Seriously, what do YOU freaking know about OUR lives and choices? Not everyone had the same options as you did, despite your constant assertions that we did. (Jim Wooten does the single-parent bash at least once or twice a month — be sure to jump in and get covered in it next time, huh?)

As to strenghtening the instituion of marriage, I’m the wrong person to ask because: (a) my husband was nailing a teenager so I divorced him, and (b) HALF THE MEN WHO ASK ME FOR DATES (or other assorted activites) are freaking MARRIED!! My answer is “no,” (unless they’ve lied about being “technically” divorced, and when I find out: “See ya.”) Given what I know, just how much faith SHOULD I have in the grand institution, Einstein?

By Bruno

May 1, 2008 12:52 PM | Link to this

As to strenghtening the instituion of marriage, I’m the wrong person to ask because: (a) my husband was nailing a teenager so I divorced him

I don’t blame you for that.

(b) HALF THE MEN WHO ASK ME FOR DATES (or other assorted activites) are freaking MARRIED!! My answer is “no,” (unless they’ve lied about being “technically” divorced, and when I find out: “See ya*.”)

Very sad state of affairs in the dating world, if that’s the case.

Given what I know, just how much faith SHOULD I have in the grand institution, Einstein?

I only have one answer to that: Hope is the only thing that keeps us going in this often cruel, heartless world. Please don’t ever give up hope.

By Bruno

May 1, 2008 12:59 PM | Link to this

I will say one thing about the “Clinton years”—People seemed a lot more hopeful and carefree about life than during the “Bush years”. Whether it is simply the case of a cooperative media vs. an uncooperative media or whether we truly ARE worse off during the 2000s, I don’t know. I sure miss the optimism, however, and hate the current pessimism. Just my two cents.

My Dominican friend just called a minute ago and told me that if I vote for Hillary, everything will be A-ok again. At least she made me laugh a little. Looking for a job sucks.

By Bruno

May 1, 2008 1:04 PM | Link to this

P.S. Single Mom—Although I’m pretty bright when it comes to science and economics, I’m EXTREMELY dumb when it comes to relationships. I’m the original push-over.

Have a nice day, everyone, gotta look for a job.

By Single Mommy

May 1, 2008 1:11 PM | Link to this

Hope is the only thing that keeps us going in this often cruel, heartless world. Please don’t ever give up hope.

Could you BE more trite and condescending? That’s almost exactly what Obama’s people said on the phone the other day right before they asked me for money. Sorry, I think the lessons of experience are more useful than “hope,” but that’s just my opinion. You’re entitled to yours.

By Bono

May 1, 2008 1:19 PM | Link to this

We’re one

But were not the same

We get to carry each other

Carry each other

One

By Bruno

May 1, 2008 1:34 PM | Link to this

Could you BE more trite and condescending? That’s almost exactly what Obama’s people said on the phone the other day right before they asked me for money. Sorry, I think the lessons of experience are more useful than “hope,” but that’s just my opinion. You’re entitled to yours.

Well, I’m not asking you for money, or anything else for that matter. A smile on your face would be nice, however.

Why should the lessons of experience preclude hope anyway?

Just a rhetorical question. Forgive me.

By Bono

May 1, 2008 1:41 PM | Link to this

Love is a temple

Love a higher law

Love is a temple

Love the higher law

You ask me to enter

But then you make me crawl

By USinUK

May 1, 2008 1:46 PM | Link to this

They were soundly trounced by MoveOn.org

… and the NYTimes … and the WaPo … and CNN … and MSNBC … and on blogs on BOTH sides of the aisle … and in the USAToday …

criminey - I love how the right attribues SO. MUCH. POWER. to MoveOn.Org. (they are the borg … resistence is futile)

chuck -

since you are on the non-left side of the aisle … and, accordingly, should believe in LESS government interference in people’s lives … it’s not only a question of WHAT should be done - but BY WHOM.

since you brought up the subject - what are YOUR solutions???

By Snidely Buttright

May 1, 2008 1:55 PM | Link to this

Sadly, I’ve known more than one man who left his wife while she was pregnant, or shortly after the birth of their child. Worse than that, I’ve dated two women whose husbands left them when they found out their child was handicapped.

are you trying to tell us that there are single mothers who aren’t spread-legged, floozie ho’s with no morals and no decency who refuse to use birthcontrol because they’re spread-legged floozie ho’s?! And you expect us to believe that?

/snark

By chuck

May 1, 2008 1:58 PM | Link to this

Kimberly, please point out to me HOW I bashed single parents in my post. If it hit close to home, I’m sorry, but those are the statistics and they are undeniable. I don’t pretend to know what motivates you. That’s not my place in any event. Though I have nothing against you personally, just based on what you have said here, including your latest posts, you probably have good reason to be bitter. You are not the only person that has been dealt a rotten hand in life. I know how fortunate I am. What you don’t understand is that I wish EVERYBODY could find their one true love and make a commitment for life. That is why it is so important that we find ways to strengthen marriage. We can’t do ANYTHING to change what happened to you, but WHY IN THE WORLD WOULD YOU WANT US AS A SOCIETY TO NOT HELP PREVENT FUTURE YOU’S?

That is the epitomy of selfishness in my estimation. “Hey I had a lousy relationship so everybody ought to have a lousy relationship.” I know that is not what you are saying, but that is the perception that you give. Bruno’s “keep hope alive” moment aside, why do you think you attract such losers? Don’t answer that because it’s none of my business, but doesn’t it make you wonder?

Bruno, I’ll get back to you tommorrow on how we strengthen marriage as an institution. There are a number of things that we can do that research says gives marriages a better chance.

Got to go. Headed to a concert in a few.

Have a good one Kimberly. Sorry I upset you so much today. That wasn’t my intention.

By Archie

May 1, 2008 1:59 PM | Link to this

Why should the lessons of experience preclude hope anyway? I agree with your rhetorical question Bruno.

Also Bruno, your implication that I didn’t have anything good to say about conservatives is simply wrong. As I’ve said before I have a conservative friend and although I detest his views I still call him a friend. Well,unlike his idol,Limbaugh, this guy has never used drugs. Unlike his idol,Limbaugh, this guy has only had one wife and this guy manages his money really well. He always votes and he isn’t uppity and he still talks to me like a person inspite of my liberal views on most things except shacking.

By Mara

May 1, 2008 2:25 PM | Link to this

and the NYTimes … and the WaPo … and CNN … and MSNBC … and on blogs on BOTH sides of the aisle … and in the USAToday

pages and pages and pages of comments flamming the network. Literally hundreds of Op/Eds from every ideology you could think of ripping the questions, the format, the sponsors, everything…it was a figurative blood-bath for Gibson and Stephi. The studio audience even started booing Gibson right at the end…

By Bruno

May 1, 2008 2:54 PM | Link to this

Mara—I researched your point about McCain and torture. According to the website I went to, this is McCain’s position:

It was not my intent to eliminate the CIA interrogation program, but rather to ensure that the techniques it employs are humane and do not include such extreme techniques as waterboarding. I said on the Senate floor during the debate over the Military Commissions Act, ‘Let me state this flatly: it was never our purpose to prevent the CIA from detaining and interrogating terrorists. On the contrary, it is important to the war on terror that the CIA have the ability to do so. At the same time, the CIA’s interrogation program has to abide by the rules, including the standards of the Detainee Treatment Act.

I haven’t seen a copy of the actual legislation, but I don’t particularly trust Dianne Feinstein.

By Archie

May 1, 2008 2:56 PM | Link to this

Mara,others, It has just been posted on another prominent website that Bush is the most unpopular president in modern history!!! Bush’s disapproval rating is above 70 percent!!! What a way to go out?

On the marriage thing, yes guys do step out on their wives but another point is this they always find a willing person to be the “other” woman. My point is it isn’t the institution of marriage that needs fixing it’s people. People cheat on each other even when shacking but at least with marriage you’re establishing an orderly way of doing things. Marriages will never be perfect for example one lady here complains about her husband of 40 years constantly but based on the behavior I see her exhibit the man deserves a medal.

By Truth

May 1, 2008 2:57 PM | Link to this

USinUK

And if I am not mistaken, all of those outlets have committed on McCain’s relationship with the nut that hates Catholics. It is no one’s fault that most of America looks at a 20 year relationship as being much more important than an endorsement by a nut. The McCain story was a legitimate story that simply had no legs. The Obama story does have legs because it is MUCH more involved with Obama having a close, inter-family relationship with Wright.

It just doesn’t matter that they don’t like seeing democrats held to the same standards that Republicans are held to. I want to see it and I think most Americans want to see it.

When they clean up the attacks on McCain, when they retract the garbage they have tried to pin on Bush, then I will shed a tear. Until then, deal with it folks. It is a political debate about issues that are changing perspectives, whether you like it or not.

The fact that the audience of a Democratic Debate didn’t like hard questions asked of Democrats is not a big surprise.

By Single Mommy

May 1, 2008 2:58 PM | Link to this

Chuck, why so condescending? Calling a woman “bitter” because she’s learned from her mistakes and doesn’t buy into a bunch of platitudinal rhetoric is just a cheap shot. (Half the men who ask me out are NOT married, and I DO manage to have a personal life, thanks for pretending to care.) You’re the one who started in this morning on why single parents are the problem. In light of all the contributing factors to economic woes in this country, I’m frankly tired of hearing about that one, especially from someone who admiteddly DOESN’T KNOW SQUAT about what it’s like to be a single adult, let alone a single parent. Further, you assertion that marriage is the answer ignores the fact that at least half the time, GEE, it’s not. Why don’t you lay off criticizing people you know nothing about (even though that’s the only way you apparently know how to feel good about yourself), and start holding your elected officials accountable for their disasters for a change. OR, just ramble on about sinners as usual, what do I care?

By Bruno

May 1, 2008 3:01 PM | Link to this

why do you think you attract such losers? Don’t answer that because it’s none of my business, but doesn’t it make you wonder?

Such a compassionate “Christian”, that chuck. And he wonders why so many people turn away from religion.

Bruno, I’ll get back to you tommorrow on how we strengthen marriage as an institution. There are a number of things that we can do that research says gives marriages a better chance.

I’ll be away on 2 job interviews tomorrow, but will read it later. BTW, the word is “epitome” with an “e” at the end.

• Also Bruno, your implication that I didn’t have anything good to say about conservatives is simply wrong. As I’ve said before I have a conservative friend and although I detest his views I still call him a friend. Well,unlike his idol,Limbaugh, this guy has never used drugs. Unlike his idol,Limbaugh, this guy has only had one wife and this guy manages his money really well. He always votes and he isn’t uppity and he still talks to me like a person inspite of my liberal views on most things except shacking*.

Archie, I have friends of all political stripes. I don’t consider that to be a big deal. Also, would you be shocked to know that I think Rush Limbaugh is a terrible hypocrite? I do watch Hannity and Colmes with some frequency, but that is a balanced show in which Alan Colmes is given equal air-time.

By Truth

May 1, 2008 3:11 PM | Link to this

Single Mommy

Is there anything that Chuck could have said to you today that you would not have thought was condescending?

My Mom and Dad divorced in 1958. I was 6.

Out of a high school of over 1,200 students, I was one of two from divorced parents. It was devastating. Say what you want, but I would have given anything to have both of my parents.

By Mom is Real Love

May 1, 2008 3:15 PM | Link to this

“why do you think you attract such losers? Don’t answer that because it’s none of my business, but doesn’t it make you wonder?”…. Such a compassionate “Christian”, that chuck. And he wonders why so many people turn away from religion.

I was just thinking the same thing. I’ve asked before for the name of his church so I can learn to be like him, but he won’t give it. Either (a) he doesn’t go to church, (b) he knows his behavior shames the teachings of Christ and his church, or (c) his church doesn’t teach the message of Christ, only hate, and he knows we’re onto them.

By Archie

May 1, 2008 3:20 PM | Link to this

Bruno, Chuck was just trying to be funny and I was laughing,dude, because you put your business out there. I only posted about my friend because you seem to think I only criticized people with a different view than mine but that’s not the case. Democrats screwed up the Florida and Michigan primaries I mean everything should have been clear and I forsee some more nuttiness coming from democrats. As for Hannity and Colmes, Hannity dominates that show with Colmes barely saying anything. Yes I am shocked at your view of Limbaugh.

By Truth

May 1, 2008 3:20 PM | Link to this

bruno

Archie, I have friends of all political stripes. I don’t consider that to be a big deal.

I wasn’t going to say anything. I played poker last night with seven people who were all liberals. I am dating a communist from the Soviet Union. My business partner and one of my best friends is a Black man who is a huge Obama supporter. I just took my daily walk with the woman I always walk with who is also a liberal. I occasionally baby-set for a lesbian couple, (usually just an hour between their regular setter and they can get home from work.)

I can’t remember when the last time I was face to face with another conservative. And he is really going out of his way to accept this one guy. Wow.

By Single Mommy

May 1, 2008 3:35 PM | Link to this

Truth, first question: No. He’s always condescending, but I work my a— off and have sacrificed much to be a good parent, and being told I am the problem really pi—es me off. I had the same stigma, Dude — raised by my Dad after Mom ran off. You think not being able to provide a “real” family doesn’t break my heart too? Seriously, you have no idea how much.

But what good does it do to humiliate people like me with a bunch of self-righteous scolding? If we love our kids, we do the best we can, and our reward is a—holes like Chuck and their “loser” wisecracks that help no one but foster more division and… well, the word revulsion comes to mind. Why not focus on the things we CAN change? Oh, no, the fake Christians are having too much fun spreading hate around and trying to make people feel bad about themselves so we’ll send in our tithes and offerings on some lame promise of a blessing some day. That’s the truth as I see it.

By Bruno

May 1, 2008 3:36 PM | Link to this

On the marriage thing, yes guys do step out on their wives but another point is this they always find a willing person to be the “other” woman.

Believe it or not, since many here consider me to be some kind of loser for blogging all day long (and maybe I am), I received offers from dozens of married women over the years to have an affair. Including several “Christian” women. My quick reply was always to thank them for their interest, but to say “NO THANKS”.

Out of a high school of over 1,200 students, I was one of two from divorced parents. It was devastating. Say what you want, but I would have given anything to have both of my parents.

In my own case, my Dad was a violent man, so I’m nt really sure what the best situation was for our family. I am looking forward to our first full family reunion in a few weeks, however. We’re all getting old, and who knows how long we’ll be around.

Either (a) he doesn’t go to church, (b) he knows his behavior shames the teachings of Christ and his church, or (c) his church doesn’t teach the message of Christ, only hate, and he knows we’re onto them.

You think? ; > }

By Bruno

May 1, 2008 3:42 PM | Link to this

I played poker last night with seven people who were all liberals

I was a little surprised how many folks in my poker group are liberal as well, Truth. After all, poker is such a capitalistic venture. The good news is that I’ve been on a tear again lately, though I’m still p** that I didn’t win the big tourney out in Vegas.

As for Hannity and Colmes, Hannity dominates that show with Colmes barely saying anything. Yes I am shocked at your view of Limbaugh.

I’ll have to keep a stopwatch handy next time, Archie, but I believe they get equal airtime. Don’t be shocked about my view of Rush. Even HE admits that he’s in the entertainment business. Unfortunately, I don’t find him to be very entertaining, or particularly informative.

*

By Truth

May 1, 2008 3:55 PM | Link to this

Bruno

The point I was making was not to say anything bad toward a single mom. I just got off the phone with my ex who is a single Mom raising my little girl. (My daughter graduates from High School this year.)

Two loving parents ARE better than one. That’s all I am saying. But a single Mom, even now days is a hell of a job. It breaks my heart to see them alone. I’m just thankful that I am still a large part of my girl’s life.

By Truth

May 1, 2008 3:59 PM | Link to this

Bruno

I was a fan of Limbaugh until he went with the Clintons and supported NAFTA. From that point on, he became entertainment. I also have a problem with him using public airwaves to manipulate an election.

As my buddy says: that sh*t ain’t funny, man.

By Bruno

May 1, 2008 4:08 PM | Link to this

Serious question for you, Single Mom: I recall you railing against lobbyists on the blog many times. As such, what is your opinion of the Trial Lawyer’s Association? Do you buy into their mantra that it is only THEY who stand between the “little guy” and unfair treatment here in the US? Seems like a few of them own big yachts as well.

I also have a problem with him using public airwaves to manipulate an election.

I heard secondhand that Rush may be facing some legal problems for calling on Repubs to cross party lines and vote for Hillary in some primaries in which they weren’t allowed to by state law. It would serve him right.

By Archie

May 1, 2008 4:14 PM | Link to this

I received offers from dozens of married women over the years to have an affair. Including several “Christian” women. I believe you Bruno because I wear my ring yet I’ve had some interesting commentary directed my way over the years. Check out Roger Clemens. All of his affairs are about to be put out there and all those women knew he was married. Whenever I hear the question why do men cheat? I get fired up and return the question substituting the word women. Clemens paid this one lady a large sum of money and yet news of his affair with her still came out. I am pro-choice, pro-woman, and will do whatever to make things better for women and won’t hesitate to vote for one but if they do wrong I’ll call them on it just as I would the guys.

By Bruno

May 1, 2008 4:30 PM | Link to this

You think not being able to provide a “real” family doesn’t break my heart too? Seriously, you have no idea how much.

My guess would be that a loving single-parent home is preferable to an unloving two-parent home.

I apologize again for coming across as condescending, but PLEASE don’t EVER give up hope for a brighter future.

By violet

May 1, 2008 4:53 PM | Link to this

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By Monica

May 1, 2008 5:10 PM | Link to this

The AJC is cruel. In the right column of the main page: “400 Atlanta workers to lose jobs in next three days.” In the left column: “Escape on a Cruise.” Yeah, that’s god advice for someone getting a pink slip.

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By jon

May 2, 2008 5:58 AM | Link to this

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By USinUK

May 2, 2008 9:02 AM | Link to this

Truth -

It just doesn’t matter that they don’t like seeing democrats held to the same standards that Republicans are held to. I want to see it and I think most Americans want to see it.

oh, fercryingoutloud … throw a quarter on the table and BUY me a break.

John McCain gets a free flippin’ ride from this media and, if you were halfway honest with yourself, you’d acknowledge it. Here’s a guy whose first wife remained faithful and loyal to him when he was captured and raised the kids - and what does he do when he returns??? DIVORCES HER FOR SOMEONE YOUNGER AND RICHER.

But, does the media make a big deal of this?? oh, heck no. John Kerry marries Teresa Heinz and the media goes on and on about it, but NOTHING about McCain’s conveniently filthy-rich wife (except for the plagiarized recipes on her web site).

The media doesn’t even bother scrutinizing his “maverick” status - how frequently he’s CLUNG to Baby Bush - how he’s backtracked on his own torture bill - I could go on.

As for John Hagee, the media is FINALLY paying a VERY LITTLE amount of attention to it. The fact is, McCain didn’t get this endorsement out of the blue - he courted Hagee and asked for it. While it isn’t the same as going to a church for 20 years, he still did it when he was a candidate running for president and should have had better sense about it.

Lastly, I frankly don’t see a helluva lot of difference between what Wright has said with what Falwell and Robertson said - especially right after 9/11. ALL THREE said you reap what you sew - the only difference being that Robertson and Falwell blamed feminists, gays and abortion. But Wright is the only one who has caught flack for it.

And you say that DEMS get a free ride??? puh-LEEZ

By kimberly

May 2, 2008 9:28 AM | Link to this

USinUK, thanks for your 9:02!

By Archie

May 2, 2008 9:33 AM | Link to this

Lastly, I frankly don’t see a helluva lot of difference between what Wright has said with what Falwell and Robertson said - especially right after 9/11. ALL THREE said you reap what you sew - the only difference being that Robertson and Falwell blamed feminists, gays and abortion. But Wright is the only one who has caught flack for it. Girl, I told Bruno this a few days ago that other folk had made comments about America. I have been hearing that kind of talk for years about America from ministers, non-ministers, etc.

On another topic and I know I will get blasted by the ladies on this blog, it has been revealed that Barbara Walters had an affair with Edward Brooke,married Senator Brooke at the time. Ms Walters said Brooke was exciting but I noticed no mention, no mention of regret for causing any harm to his family at the time, in other words his wife at the time. Someone posted yesterday that married guys ask her out all the time well, they do it because there’s a good chance they will get a date and everything else they want. I just want one of these high-profile women to give the same generic apology that Bill Clinton,Kwame Kilpatrick,Elliot Spitzer,Jesse Jackson,Bob Barr,Arnold S, and Newt gave to their families and their lovers families.

By USinUK

May 2, 2008 9:43 AM | Link to this

Archie -

Baba Wawa is above all that, doncha know … (sheesh)

As for the apology, I don’t ever remember the third party giving an apology, only the married person having the affair (Clinton, Spitzer, etc) … while I don’t know that a hooker (in Spitzer’s case) owes anyone an apology - except for maybe her parents - I think that all the other “bits on the side” for Gingrich, Clinton, etc, should apologize for knowingly getting involved with a married person.

By Mara

May 2, 2008 10:09 AM | Link to this

USinUK, Archie, regarding the “other woman” (or other man as the case may be) apologizing to the wronged spouse…why should they?

They didn’t make any promises “to love, comfort, honor and keep [him/her] For better or worse, for richer or poorer, in sickness and in health. And forsaking all others, be faithful only to [him/her] so long as you both shall live”.

USnUK said the apology was “for knowingly getting involved with a married person.” again, why should the “bits on the side” apologize for not being a better person than the one who actually broke their promises? The cheater made the choice to betray their spouses trust. The “other person” didn’t have any trust to betray, so…what have they actually done wrong? If you’ve ever seen a Jerry Springer episode, you know that “the other woman” always gets vilified and the cheater seems to get off with barely a condemnation. Why is that? Having been cheated on before, the one I blamed was the bas-ard that done me wrong.

Admittedly, I’m playing “Devil’s Advocate” here, but really, how is it anyones fault when a spouse cheats except the cheater’s?

By Mara

May 2, 2008 10:12 AM | Link to this

joke from my e-mails today -

I was walking past the mental hospital the other day, and all the patients were shouting ,’13….13….13’

The fence was too high to see over, but I saw a little gap in the planks and looked through to see what was going on.

Some b******* poked me in the eye with a stick. Then they all started shouting ‘14….14….14’…

By USinUK

May 2, 2008 10:17 AM | Link to this

Mara -

They didn’t make any promises “to love, comfort, honor and keep [him/her] For better or worse, for richer or poorer, in sickness and in health. And forsaking all others, be faithful only to [him/her] so long as you both shall live”.

I agree with you that they didn’t make a commitment - but, if you bumped into someone, wouldn’t you apologize? if you spilled something on someone, wouldn’t you apologize? if you did something/said something that hurt someone’s feelings, wouldn’t you apologize?

these people knowingly slept with someone else’s spouse. while they may not have been the person breaking the vow, they still crossed a line of decency.

By Archie

May 2, 2008 10:20 AM | Link to this

while I don’t know that a hooker (in Spitzer’s case) owes anyone an apology - except for maybe her parents Yes, I give all hookers a pass. USinUk, as men we know when it comes to sex we are dogs. We process sex mentally a little differently than women. USinUk arrogance is what brought those men I mentioned down and Clemens,Kilpatrick are still trying to ride out the lie. Spitzer and Clinton eventually came clean. Newt’s business was just put out there and he really didn’t have much to say and Jesse Jackson had to apologize 3 times. I mentioned this because Walters is a high-profile person and I listen to these radio shows that beat up guys for cheating. In the interest of equality shouldn’t everybody share in being criticized for causing problems in a family since it takes two to tango?? Thanks USinUk for not bashing me but I know it’s coming…

By Truth

May 2, 2008 10:27 AM | Link to this

USinUK

Ahh. So now divorce is a crime, but of course just for republicans.

And the religo-nuts were given a free pass about what they said about the WTC? What world do you live in, girl. They were crucified because of those statements.

I need to go out with my ex and my daughter and get her a new car today. I love doing stuff like that.

Have a good weekend.

By USinUK

May 2, 2008 10:30 AM | Link to this

Archie -

Thanks USinUk for not bashing me but I know it’s coming…

well not from me on this one, my friend. :-)

By Archie

May 2, 2008 10:33 AM | Link to this

Admittedly, I’m playing “Devil’s Advocate” here, but really, how is it anyones fault when a spouse cheats except the cheater’s? Mara you are being devil’s advocate and you know it(smiling). First off I am sorry to hear about your problem but you’re doing well now, as you’ve told us. Secondly you answered your own question with this: Having been cheated on before, the one I blamed was the bas-ard that done me wrong. See, you know what it’s like to be wronged so another woman should easily be able to relate to that unless they are paid to sleep around. Also on Springer the cheater usually gets booed rather soundly. Basically what I am saying is you wouldn’t want wrong done to you so why do it to someone else and you know it’s a copout to say I wasn’t the one who made the promises but Mara I am glad to see that side of you.

By Archie

May 2, 2008 10:39 AM | Link to this

Good post at 10:17 am USinUk!!! Wow I am impressed. Now I believe that you really care for women rights,etc.

By kimberly

May 2, 2008 10:40 AM | Link to this

USinUK, just curious: are you saying that if your husband boinked another woman, for whatever reason (drunk on a business trip or something), that getting a “Pardon me, I’m so sorry I shagged your husband, how indecent of me. Indeed.” from the other woman would actually make it better? Tilts head quizzically… (Just curious, not making any kind of statement, since admittedly the whole business of marriage is confusing and contradictory to me.) I mean, would that really make it better, or would you just appreciate being close enough to bop her in the face?

By Mara - Devils Advocate

May 2, 2008 10:46 AM | Link to this

if you bumped into someone, wouldn’t you apologize? if you spilled something on someone, wouldn’t you apologize? if you did something/said something that hurt someone’s feelings, wouldn’t you apologize?

Of course I would, but that’s not a fair analogy. If you equate cheating as the bumping, spilling, or doing/saying, then I (the “other woman”) would merely be in the path of the actual bumper, who, in avoiding me, bumped into you. Should I apologize for not getting out of the way so that you wouldn’t get bumped?

Or I could have been the one who bought the beverage that my friend spilled on you, even though I knew he was kind of clumsy. Should I apologize to you for something my friend did, even though I was the one who enabled them to do it?

By USinUK

May 2, 2008 10:47 AM | Link to this

Truth -

Ahh. So now divorce is a crime, but of course just for republicans.

what ARE you talking about? my point isn’t that divorce is a crime - it’s that McCain isn’t getting the same scrutiny that Kerry got about marrying a rich spouse. heck, McCain isn’t getting the same scrutiny that GIULIANI got for having an affair/divorcing and remarrying.

THE POINT is that he’s barely getting any scrutiny AT ALL.

Why does that matter?? Check out yesterday’s WSJ which says that McCain gets better approval ratings than Republicans as a whole (McCain 40% to Republicans 27%) - why? because of his “patriotism and values”.

Well, honeybunny - if people KNEW about his “values”, you might see that rating fall.

Gah - car buying. I’d rather go to the dentist. Good luck!

By USinUK

May 2, 2008 10:55 AM | Link to this

kimberly -

• I mean, would that really make it better, or would you just appreciate being close enough to bop her in the face?*

yes. to both.

(haha)

make me feel better? no, not really - burning all my husband’s things in the front garden will make me feel better.

I guess I’m just tired of the Monica Lewinsky’s of the world skating off into the sunset without taking responsibility for THEIR actions. It’s one thing if the guy deceives you and you don’t know he’s married. But when you know he is, then the LEAST you can do is to say “I know I’ve hurt you and your family - and I’m so sorry for the pain I’ve caused.”

It’s all a part of my over-all view that people have gotten WAY the heck too selfish and inconsiderate of other’s feelings. Whatever happened to basic decency to your fellow man? (and, yes, for the record, I know that adultery has gone on since man could bonk - I’m just saying there should be a little more responsibility taken by BOTH people involved)

By Gandalf, the Grey

May 2, 2008 10:59 AM | Link to this

EXPAT, that 9:02 post is beyond comprehension, maybe they didn’t get along after he got back. Divorce is a way of life in this country, sad but true. Ever been in a POW camp? It CHANGES you. Please go visit the Queen or ride that big ferris wheel or go tease the guards at Buckingham Palace for the rest of the day!

By Mara - Devils Advocate

May 2, 2008 11:00 AM | Link to this

Archie - you wouldn’t want wrong done to you so why do it to someone else

this is true, but we aren’t talking about me…I have never, and would never, cheat or help someone cheat. We’re talking about people who have and would. Somehow I don’t think they ascribe to “The Golden Rule” :^)

maybe my point wasn’t made well, but I contend that the “other person” doesn’t owe the spouse an apology, unless, of course the Other had some kind of trusted relationship with them.

actually kimberly says it better (and in a much more amusing way) in her 10:40 -

kimberly - “Pardon me, I’m so sorry I shagged your husband, how indecent of me. Indeed.”

ROTFLMAO!!

By USinUK

May 2, 2008 11:07 AM | Link to this

Mara - DA -

If you equate cheating as the bumping, spilling, or doing/saying, then I (the “other woman”) would merely be in the path of the actual bumper, who, in avoiding me, bumped into you. Should I apologize for not getting out of the way so that you wouldn’t get bumped?

to clarify - this particular analogy applies where the party of the 3rd part KNOWS that the party of the 2nd part is married. as a stated a moment ago, if the married person lies and says s/he’s single, this doesn’t apply.

however, in my analogy, YOU are the party of the 3rd part and you are deliberately bumping into the party of the 1st part. yeah, the party of the second part may be making moves, but if you know s/he is married, then have a little courtesy and keep your mitts off, regardless of what s/he does and says.

sorry, but the party of the 3rd part isn’t blameless - they should take equal responsibility.

By Truth

May 2, 2008 11:13 AM | Link to this

USinUK

Give em time. Right now, the big fight is among the two democrats. BTW, watched Hillary again last night on FOX. Damn impressive. She stood toe to toe with O’Reilly and did pretty well. McCain will be there next week. Obama, so far won’t come on against evil Bill. He probably doesn’t need to, yet. He will.

I just like doing things with my girl. I also get along really well with my ex. Should be a great day. (they are running late, as usual)

I love it when you call me pet names.

May be in England in August. It is a shoot somewhere in London and Bath. (Ghost stories … Boo!!) I’ll tell you where and if you want, come on down and visit.

By Curious

May 2, 2008 11:14 AM | Link to this

since admittedly the whole business of marriage is confusing and contradictory to me

What exactly is confusing and contradictory about two people making a lifelong commitment to trust, honor and cherish?

Sounds like a good proposition to me…..

By USinUK

May 2, 2008 11:17 AM | Link to this

Gandalf -

Ever been in a POW camp? It CHANGES you

I’m sure it did change him - and, if he and his wife split up right after he returned or within a couple of years, I’d be right there with you.

But, 10 years after he got back, he started his affair with Cindy - THEN he divorced Carol. So, no, I really don’t attribute the split to what happened in the POW camp.

Why don’t YOU spend a little time today reading up on your guy - you might learn something.

By Truth

May 2, 2008 11:18 AM | Link to this

USinUk

While I was on the road in the 70s, we never asked, never told if women were married. We were gone in two weeks and it was over.

I have paid for that in so many ways since.

Karma’s a b*tch. Trust me. it’s true.

By kimberly

May 2, 2008 11:21 AM | Link to this

In his own rude, tasteless, tactless way, Gandalf makes a good point. People change; that’s a fact. What’s the point of swearing before God, the family and the courthouse clerk that you’ll never ever change enough to not be thorougly enamored and committed to one person for the next 40 years until death, and then having to pay a lawyer and cause all the hurt feelings of broken promises when you can’t stick to a promise that was simply wishful thinking in the first place?

I meet lots of divorced men with small children who still pay for the family house and their own little apartment. They have a piece of paper that says they can legally hit me up for a “date” now, but they still SEEM married to me, because they’re still entrenched in moral obligations they swore to just a few short years ago, when they just KNEW it would be forever. I’m like, “Dude? Why’d you give up on the mother of your children so soon, when you were so certain just a few short years ago?” The idea of certainty just rings false to me, that’s all. I see the honor in wanting to be committed; I just don’t see that it’s any different from rolling the dice — just more expensive.

By USinUK

May 2, 2008 11:25 AM | Link to this

Truth -

It is a shoot somewhere in London and Bath. (Ghost stories … Boo!!) I’ll tell you where and if you want, come on down and visit.

have you been before??? London rocks and Bath … OMG, what a fantastic city!! I’m sure you’d go to the Roman baths there, but, if your shoot doesn’t include that, make time to go! Loads of great ghostie stories all over the country - especially here in London! If you have time, pick up the book Sarum by Edward Rutherford before you come. It’s a lot like a James Michener book, starting with the dawn of time and following family lines through the ages. GREAT, great read!!!

Give em time. Right now, the big fight is among the two democrats.

I agree with you there - I think that, once the convention is behind them, McCain might find the spotlight a little hotter than he was expecting.

By chuck

May 2, 2008 11:27 AM | Link to this

ALL THREE said you reap what you sew (SOW) - the only difference being that Robertson and Falwell blamed feminists, gays and abortion. But Wright is the only one who has caught flack for it.

Are you kidding me? Robertson and Falwell caught all KINDS of flack from it. The difference is that they were also roundly criticized by REPUBLICANS who were NOT running for office. I have yet to see a democrat criticize Wright for his comments.

By Gandalf, the Grey

May 2, 2008 11:36 AM | Link to this

Single Mom, sorry about you position, but you did spread you legs without being married. Your fault, no one elses. Thanks for trying to do the right thing and I am glad your “little B@st@rd” is doing well in school.

You sleeping around is not doing much to instill moral values within your child, but, whatever, everyone is doing it…right?

You made your bed, now sleep in it!

By USinUK

May 2, 2008 11:37 AM | Link to this

chuck -

Are you kidding me? Robertson and Falwell caught all KINDS of flack from it.

from whom? please cite all the media attention they received - all the talk shows they were featured on - all the CNN/MSNBC/FOX bulletins - all the newspaper columnists that took them to task. cuz, my friendly, while they may have gotten a little ink, it is NOWHERE NEAR the tsunami of ink Wright has received.

By Copyleft

May 2, 2008 11:42 AM | Link to this

Falwell was smart enough to die. Let’s hope Robertson takes the hint.

By Archie

May 2, 2008 11:48 AM | Link to this

Kimberly you have become way too cynical and that’s not bashing because I like you now and always have liked you. Kimberly let me say this sometimes we don’t know what we’re capable of we just don’t know that we can become a sex addict, or a dope addict, or a gambling addict. Dealing with human beings will always be like rolling the dice but there’s still nothing wrong with getting married. It’s hard dealing with my own behavior then you have to deal with someone making a pass at you or accepting your pass then as USinUk put it sailing as if they did nothing wrong. By the way I know Mara’s true answer to the apology question because she gave it month’s ago but she is doing a good job playing devil’s advocate. Kimberly, I really did naively believe that I would not ever be attracted to anyone else after marriage and I have done a good job but I have to keep my guard up because there are some gorgeous,intelligent women in this world. You can’t turn off that human button. I have 24 years to go to get to that 40. I don’t celebrate the troubles of Kwame Kilpatrick and Spitzer and I do think USinUk gets it. Yes, I do believe McCain had an affair not because he’s republican but because he’s human.

By chuck

May 2, 2008 11:48 AM | Link to this

I don’t understand why the women on this blog would hold “cheating” against their spouses. It seems to me that you all have said many times in effect, that people are INCAPABLE OF CONTROLLING THEIR SEXUAL URGES. Every time we talk about abortion you say something along the lines of “A woman shouldn’t be punished for making one mistake”, or some other such nonsense.

When we talk about abstinence programs you say that it is a FACT that teens are GOING TO HAVE SEX. Basically you assert all the time that we are all no better than animals when it comes to sex. With that kind of attitude does it surprise you that spouses cheat on each other? Another of the MANY problems that liberal THEOLOGY has caused our country.

By Tinky Winky

May 2, 2008 11:55 AM | Link to this

I killed Falwell. I poisoned the end of my little purple winky. Guess who is next?

By Archie

May 2, 2008 11:58 AM | Link to this

It’s all a part of my over-all view that people have gotten WAY the heck too selfish and inconsiderate of other’s feelings. Yes,Yes,Hell Yes.

Another of the MANY problems that liberal THEOLOGY has caused our country. Chuck why did you have to bring that liberal vs conservative bs into a non-partisan discussion???! The ladies didn’t bash me now here you come with something totally irrelevant to the conversation, a light-hearted one at that.

By lyrazel

May 2, 2008 12:02 PM | Link to this

no chuck, theology has caused more problems for society than liberals could ever do.

By USinUK

May 2, 2008 12:07 PM | Link to this

chuck -

When we talk about abstinence programs you say that it is a FACT that teens are GOING TO HAVE SEX.

since you are evidently a little slow today, I’ll use little words so you’ll understand:

Even if kids don’t have sex now, they will have sex one day (even if they do wait until marriage) and should know how to prevent pregnancy TO PREVENT MORE ABORTIONS.

By HeeHaw

May 2, 2008 12:08 PM | Link to this

Another of the MANY problems that liberal THEOLOGY has caused our country

A liberal caused Sen Craig to hang out in the men’s room at the airport looking for man-sex? Who knew?

Thanks, Chuck.

By kimberly

May 2, 2008 12:11 PM | Link to this

Archie, I never said there was anything wrong with getting married. Congratulations to you! I believe in freedom of choice, and if that’s what people choose, then GREAT! (Let’s let NetBanker marry his partner too!) Someone asked why I felt confused and contradicted; I explained my feelings while admitting that I’m not an expert. People harass me all the time for being 40-ish and not married, “Why? Aren’t you trying? What are you doing wrong?” I’m sick of it. If I were willing to settle for less than I need, or being really “in-like” with someone, I could be married too. That I’ve learned from the past, and choose to apply rational thought going forward instead of plunging in blindly to breathy, passionate mumblings of love, or the material minded men whose primary goal is shared double income, is a positive step, IMO, not something that deserves contempt. The experiences I shared are just that: what I’VE seen and heard. Never said everyone was like that, but how stupid would I be to pretend I didn’t see or hear those things?

Besides, I don’t think Gandalf will go for me, and if I can’t get a prize like that, what’s the point? {;-> Haha!

By Gandalf, the Grey

May 2, 2008 12:13 PM | Link to this

EXPAT: My guy was Fred Thompson, so I don’t have a horse in this race….

By lyrazel

May 2, 2008 12:16 PM | Link to this

please chuckles…Don’t make me mention the fact that teens who marry young to keep their abstinence vows have one of the highest rates of divorce in America….

By chuck

May 2, 2008 12:18 PM | Link to this

it is NOWHERE NEAR the tsunami of ink Wright has received.

That may be true to a degree, but they were not involved in a Presidential race at the time either. AND, they were absolutely attacked and mocked by the media AS WELL AS BY REPUBLICANS. Barack HUSSEIN Obama, insinuated Wright into this race when he called him his mentor and spiritual leader. Yes, to a degree it is “guilt by association”, but this was not an association that Barack HUSSEIN Obama took lightly and neither should we. While the views of each man COULD be different, we don’t really know that. We only have Barack HUSSEIN Obama’s word for it and he has a vested interest in us believing that doesn’t he? I would think that you should agree that racist beliefs in a candidate for President would be a bad thing.

In addition, both Falwell and Robertson apologized for their statements. Wright HAS NOT apologized for his comments and in fact has reaffirmed his belief in them and has even expanded on them. Finally Wright could have let the situation lie, and it would have and was beginning to die down. Instead, he chose to go to 2 very high profile events and repeat them.

There is no double standard here. The situations are different.

By USinUK

May 2, 2008 12:19 PM | Link to this

Gandalf -

EXPAT: My guy was Fred Thompson, so I don’t have a horse in this race….

well, I’m assuming you’re going to vote for someone in November, yes?? I mean, just because Fred ran a half-a**ed campaign and then bailed doesn’t mean you’re going to take your ball and go home, does it??

By Mara

May 2, 2008 12:24 PM | Link to this

I don’t understand why the women on this blog would hold “cheating” against their spouses.

it isn’t the sex, chuck, it’s the betrayal of a sober, solemn vow of fidelity. It’s an issue of trust. I trust my husband to keep his word, to esteem me over anyone else, and to have respect for my feelings. In return, I promised to support him, cherish him over all others, and respect his feelings and opinions.

If you can’t hold to your vows, don’t get married.

By Gandalf, the Grey

May 2, 2008 12:32 PM | Link to this

EXPAT, I am not taking my ball and going home, and I will not vote Liberterian or Communist or Green Party. But I don’t like John McCain that much, I think he should have taken his out from the prison camp and went back to bombing the North Vietnamese into the stone age. I want the borders closed and I think global warming as espoused by that ALGORE is rubbish. But the science is in at that, says he…

By Archie

May 2, 2008 12:33 PM | Link to this

Hey Kimberly,People harass me all the time for being 40-ish and not married, “Why? Aren’t you trying? What are you doing wrong?” I’m sick of it. I know Kimberly because I was harassed at age 30 for not being married so I know about that kind of harassment and as you know I am for gay marriage. Kimberly,y’all know it’s a pet peeve of mine that women never apologize in those adulterous situations,why they may even write a book about it. I mean Karrine Stephans took it to a whole ‘nother level. Empathy is the word that comes to my mind and it’s lacking from so many people but I really like that USinUk seems to have that empathy that so many women and men lack. Thanks Kimberly and the other ladies that decided not to bash me. Y’all have my vote on issues that matter to you but I am still a man.

By Gandalf, the Grey

May 2, 2008 12:37 PM | Link to this

Kimberly, you and so many other woman have that fantasy. But I be hitched. Sorry! The only one on here (“besides Shaunti!”) that could even tempt me would be that dang old “EXPAT”. As wrong as she often is, she at least takes the time to look at things from both sides (right before going left). Smart girl is she.

By chuck

May 2, 2008 12:37 PM | Link to this

USinUK, once again you missed the point.

Even if kids don’t have sex now, they will have sex one day (even if they do wait until marriage) and should know how to prevent pregnancy TO PREVENT MORE ABORTIONS.

While the statement is somewhat rue, that IS NOT the context of the arguments that have been made on this blog NUMEROUS times. If you go back to the archives and look for the “abstinence” columns (and there are several) you will see that my earlier statements are spot on and I stand by them.

Nice attempt to shift the argument without answering the point that I made.

By Archie

May 2, 2008 12:42 PM | Link to this

• I would think that you should agree that racist beliefs in a candidate for President would be a bad thing.* I agree with that but be careful… 99 percent of all the people working behind the scenes on Barack H. Obama’s campaign are white and Barack is part white. When you bring bs into a situation you allow others to bring their bs into that situation. I agree that Falwell was bashed pretty good but he did not get the press that Wright is getting and nothing Wright’s saying is new. The media is not doing a good job but then it’s probably because this campaign is the longest one in history.

By chuck

May 2, 2008 12:48 PM | Link to this

If you can’t hold to your vows, don’t get married.

I agree Mara. BUT, my point still stands. Liberals have argued time and again on this blog that sex is basically uncontrollable. Why would you get mad at someone for something that they cannot control?

I have argued over and over that we are HUMAN BEINGS and not animals. That we are not controlled by the “evolutionary need to reproduce”, and I have been attacked over and over again for making that argument. If my argument is NOT TRUE as many of you, including yourself, have asserted, then it is obvious that you should not get mad if your spouse cheated because you argue that it is an uncontrollable urge.

To take that argument one step further, you also should excuse rape because after all, men are just animals feeding the urge to reproduce. Strongest survive and all that.

By Gandalf, the Grey

May 2, 2008 12:58 PM | Link to this

Chuck, sex is only uncontrollable when executed correctly! :-)

By chuck

May 2, 2008 1:04 PM | Link to this

I agree that Falwell was bashed pretty good but he did not get the press that Wright is getting and nothing Wright’s saying is new.

You are absolutely right about the fact that what Wright said is not new. In fact the controversy erupted over these statements ONLY NOW, even though they were actually made a couple of years ago. That further proves my point Archie. Does anybody recall the media saying ANYTHING about those statements that Wright made BACK THEN? While the media was railing on Robertson and Falwell, they completely IGNORED the statements made by Wright when arguably, he held much the same position among Black leaders as Falwell/Robertson held among conservative leaders.

I’ve got to admit USinUK, after rethinking this whole thing there IS a double standard. Falwell and Robertson were treated much worse.

By chuck

May 2, 2008 1:12 PM | Link to this

BTW, USinUK, (I feel a Perry Mason moment coming on here), “Will you please tell the court hou YOU KNEW that Falwell and Robertson made those comment?”

“No further questions Your Honor. I rest my case.”

By Yep.

May 2, 2008 1:30 PM | Link to this

…. not to be condescending or anything, but everything that’s ever been wrong is the fault of YOU LIBERALS, and all you stupid, stubborn people can do is shift your arguments to avoid my very astute, absolutely right, never wrong, preacher-said-so POINTS which are FACTS because I SAID SO! I will dine happily on fried chicken, macaroni salad, and nanner puddin’ while you all BURN IN HECK and remember: I told you so. Joy not unto the world, but only to me and those I approve of.

By chuck

May 2, 2008 1:43 PM | Link to this

Yesterday I said I would post ideas about how to strengthen marriage as an institution. These are not original to me. I took them from a number of internet sites and they are based on a number of different published studies from diverse organizations. Some of these are easily doable without the involvement or with limited involvement of government.

1)marriage mentoring for newlywed couples.

2)Chattanooga churches have signed a community marriage policy. They include among them, a waiting period before marriages will be performed, counselling and other good ideas.

Research shows that counties with a community marriage policy reduce divorce, sometimes by a lot. Compelling stories also come from congregations that have adopted comprehensive marriage ministries.

3)financial and other incentives, such as reduced marriage license fees, tax credits, and shorter waiting periods, to couples who choose to participate in pre-marriage education.

4)federal funding for marriage education and support programs serving low-income communities, as a part of the reauthorization of the federal Temporary Assistance to Needy Families (TANF) program

5)adding high-quality marriage and relationship education to t