AJC.com > Opinion > Woman to Woman > Archives > 2008 > March > 22 > Entry
Should the U.S. open a dialogue with Raoul Castro?
Andrea Cornell Sarvady, a left-leaning columnist, writes the commentary this week and Shaunti Feldhahn, a right-leaning columnist, responds.
Commentary
Recently, a bipartisan committee of over 100 House members sent a letter to Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice, practically begging her and the Bush administration to take advantage of a change in leadership in Cuba to reopen a dialogue. They reminded her that “Our policy leaves us without influence at this critical moment….After fifty years; it is time for us to think and act anew.”
This is a critical moment, indeed. With cheap oil from Venezuelan Dictator Hugo Chavez and opportunistic friendship from China, our silence gives Cuba no reason to align itself with Western democracy. Given Cuba’s strategic location, it could be an important security and trade partner, particularly given its abundance of sugar. Furthermore, the resources put toward monitoring Cuba are troubling when far more dangerous places under US sanction—like Iran—could use our full attention.
Nobody is suggesting that Raoul Castro offers a massive change from his brother, or that a dinner dance at the White House is suddenly in order. Yet even Cuban-Americans themselves, notorious hard-liners and influential Florida voters, are softening their stance. A study by Bendixen and Associates showed that over 70 percent of Cuban-Americans want our government to deal with a post-Fidel Cuba, provided we get some cooperation. Not withstanding a fervent vocal minority, this is a far cry from the “there is no talking to a Castro under any circumstances” position that has reigned for years.
“Right now, we have a failed policy” explains Dr. Jennifer McCoy over a cup of coffee near the Carter Center, where she is Director of the Americas Program. “Castro left on his own accord, not because of U.S. policy. That’s all the proof you need that our strategy isn’t working.”
For Dr. McCoy, taking the first step doesn’t undermine our credibility, it signals a willingness to try something new, in the face of overwhelming evidence that something new is desperately needed. Imposing preconditions, such as the release of political prisoners, before any dialogue has an emotional appeal but ultimately makes no sense. “To change the relationship, we have to talk.” McCoy advises. “The whole idea of preconditions is illogical. You have to talk to get movement going for the change that you want.”
Rebuttal
I must admit Andy almost had me sold by her compelling argument. But then I snapped back into reality to remember that Cuba is a communist, totalitarian state with neither Castro interested in easing his strangle-hold on the Cuban people.
If this was a real transition, it might be different. But Raul “Clone” Castro has shown no willingness to change on any issue we have raised. Without willingness, it is utterly foolish to expect dialogue to magically “get movement going for the change we want.” Remember: Cuban leaders are totally corrupt, they allow absolutely no ownership of private property, thousands of people are jailed and tortured for sharing unpopular opinions, and the nation’s economy has been so mismanaged the island can’t even provide basic services.
Let’s also have no illusions about what Andy really means by “talking.” This isn’t trying to build a bridge by comparing notes on how the grandkids are doing. U.S. and Cuban representatives can talk that way at the U.N. every day. No, “talking” is usually shorthand for “concessions” - in other words, “breaking our embargo and allowing trade.”
Is that really a good idea when every penny goes straight into the pockets of a corrupt regime? As Dr. Jaime Suchlicki, Director of the University of Miami’s Institute of Cuban and Cuban-American Studies said in a phone interview, “Any trade from us will put money into the military and government, which owns everything in the country. The money won’t go to Cubans.”
Its not that the United States is unwilling to talk. What we are unwilling to do is to provide direct support to corrupt, harsh, totalitarian dictators who oppress their people. We’ve been quietly providing the Cuban people “back door” humanitarian help for years, totaling $270 million in private aid last year alone.
Many people point to our easing of restrictions on Vietnam as an example of communist dialogue. But as Ray Wasler of the Heritage Foundation pointed out, we did that only after Vietnam’s leaders took some baby steps, like developing international trade rules.
Baby steps aren’t a huge hurdle; if Raul isn’t willing to take even those, we’re kidding ourselves to think that ‘talking’ would be anything more than our one-sided concessions for a dictator to continue business as usual.
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Comments
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By HsvsRsvsesv
March 23, 2008 2:03 AM | Link to this
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By Road Scholar
March 23, 2008 8:11 AM | Link to this
Shaunti, are you talking about Cuba or China? How can we embrace one dictatorship and not embrace another? Why, do they have something we want and need (oil, manufacturing, natural resources, cheap labor)? We supported Saddam and Iran, were on the wrong side, lost our influence, and now they are “enemies” or “agents of terror”. Get real! We should be talking to all leaders… we even talked with Russia, which was one of the reasons they changed. Since Bush has no foreign policy clue, now they are changing back.
By Truth
March 23, 2008 9:33 AM | Link to this
Personally, I think that a capitalist revolution in Cuba would take place if we opened tourism with Cuba. Europe has been going there for years and have opened an internet portal for many dissidents who post stories about the real life in Cuba in the European Hotel’s internet cafes.
We are not going to change the Castros. Only the people of Cuba will do that. We just need to relax our restrictions on travel to Cuba. That can be done without negotiations between our governments. I personally visited Havana by flying out of Freeport, Grand Bahamas. Those routes could be promoted and legalized without a word being said to the Cuban government.
We just need to do something that our government has never done: Create a smart policy toward travel to Cuba.
By Scholar
March 23, 2008 1:05 PM | Link to this
To initiate change, someone has to make the first move. The baby steps that Shaunti asks Raul to take could actually be taken by the U.S. government first, giving Cuba a chance to reciprocate. Relaxing restrictions that the U.S. government now imposes on its own citizens, prohibiting travel and dramatically limiting remittances and aid, should be the first step and can be done either unilaterally, or through a dialogue. Instead of tightening the restrictions as the Bush administration has done over the last six years, we should be giving more freedom to our own citizens. Under the U.S. embargo, it is currently illegal under U.S. law for American citizens to travel from the Bahamas or anywhere else and spend dollars in Cuba. Loosening these restrictions give will at the same time expose Cubans to American ideas and provide jobs to ordinary Cubans.
By f(x) = 36x^2
March 23, 2008 10:57 PM | Link to this
We aren’t going to start a dialogue with Cuba because Florida is one of the most important voting states in the country, and because Cuban ex-Pats are one of the most influential voting blocs in the state. Neither party is willing to anger that deeply anti-Castro group by changing our policy.
As an aside, that group has every REASON to be anti-Castro. Castro did horrible things. However, no matter how justified, that anger is counter-productive to making Cuba back into a nation that they would be willing and able to return to.
As to the other statement Shaunti made “Its not that the United States is unwilling to talk. What we are unwilling to do is to provide direct support to corrupt, harsh, totalitarian dictators who oppress their people.”
I understand that, as Americans, we want to believe this moral highground. It simply isn’t true. Ignoring the various totalitarian regimes we supported, either openly, tacitly or covertly during the Cold War, simply because they opposed Communism, the trade and economic lap dance that we’ve been giving to China for the last 15 years exposes that statement for the delusion it is.
Or how about our support of Saudi Arabia - the only true absolute monarchy left on the planet, where someone can be arrested and imprisoned without charges simply for writing a blog criticizing the religious authorities of the nation, or where women can be arrested and beaten simply for being on the street in dress deemed inappropriate, or without the company of a male relative…does that fit Shaunti’s definition?
If we want to live the moral superiority that Shaunti claims, we need to recognize these gaps. Only then can we truly be the great nation we so desperately want to be.
By Gandalf, the Grey
March 24, 2008 8:45 AM | Link to this
Bottom line, Cuba doesn’t have anything we need. Starve the b******* out with a blockade I say! If they hadn’t put missles there in the first place, they wouldn’t be in this mess, and if JFK hadn’t pulled the plug at the Bay of Pigs, we would all be partying in Havana.
By Truth
March 24, 2008 8:55 AM | Link to this
f(x) = 36x^2
Saudi Arabia is not the only monarchy. There are several others in the Middle East and Africa. According to Wikipedia, there are 45, but most are constitutional monarchies. Most do not have the power of the Saudis, but a couple, like the Sudan do have that power and they do exercise it.
But that aside, I have to agree with most of your post. Cuba is incredibly important to our national security and that is why Castro has been able to broker the deals he has brokered with our country’s enemies. I read that he gets billions from Venezuela.
By Truth
March 24, 2008 9:04 AM | Link to this
Gandalf, the Grey
Actually I was wrong in my first post. It was Eisenhower who signed the embargo. JFK walked into a hornet’s nest. I respect JFK for standing up to the Russians.
Democrats are trying to compare Obama to JFK. The real comparison is McCain. Both had seen combat and both have heath problems that remind them of what war is really all about.
Oh yea. And they both put their hands over their heart when the Pledge of Allegiance is said. Any good American would.
By JokesOn
March 24, 2008 9:09 AM | Link to this
Truth,
Well. It is going to be easy to be civil to each other because I agree 100% with your post.
I think the best way to influence other countries would be to open up non-governmental lines of communication/trade, further solidification of an unnatural bubble will always do the exact opposite.
By Truth
March 24, 2008 9:43 AM | Link to this
JokesOn
There is actually a small industry in Freeport for day trips to Havana. It was a very interesting day. Our travel was highly restricted and we were not allowed to stay overnight. And for some reason, they really wanted us to get drunk. Free drinks for Americans, almost everywhere we went.
I heard that Cuba is in bad shape outside Havana.
You are right. This is one issue we all can agree on. Too bad that Washington can’t.
Hope you had a good Easter Weekend. I am slammed all week. Business was bad, but last week, it went crazy. I think everyone is getting tired of waiting on the economic hammer to fall.
By Copyleft
March 24, 2008 10:00 AM | Link to this
“Oh yea. And they both put their hands over their heart when the Pledge of Allegiance is said. Any good American would.”
And so does Obama. The photo your talk-radio masters are misinterpreting for you was taken during the playing of the National Anthem, not the Pledge of Allegiance.
By Gandalf, the Grey
March 24, 2008 10:03 AM | Link to this
If we open travel to Cuba, our poor and sick citizens without heath care will run down there to get fixed up in that outstanding system Fidel has set up! That will bankrupt the economy and allow a PEACEFUL revolution in CUBA. They can become the democratic power in the Western Hemisphere, as we are rapidly going to slip into a socialist state.
OR: When Obama/Hillary or Hillary/Obama win, they can model our Heath Care system, and for that matter, our goverment infastructure, after Cuba’s! What an exciting time to be an AMERICAN!
By chuck
March 24, 2008 10:08 AM | Link to this
John, you said:
I understand that, as Americans, we want to believe this moral highground. It simply isn’t true. Ignoring the various totalitarian regimes we supported, either openly, tacitly or covertly during the Cold War, simply because they opposed Communism, the trade and economic lap dance that we’ve been giving to China for the last 15 years exposes that statement for the delusion it is.
Your statement has some truth in it. We have “supported” other totalitarian regimes at time, but it was for the furtherance of our NATIONAL INTERESTS. While I see benefits for CUBA in easing restrictions on them, I see very little in the way of this helping us in any way.
Your statement concerning Cuban expatriates in Florida leaves something to be desired, though. After all, these exiles sould have a seat at the table. While they should not DRIVE our policy, their views should be given serious consideration.
By Praise Teacher
March 24, 2008 10:44 AM | Link to this
Today’s Lesson: Morality is Whatever You Need it to Be When You’re Trying to Make Money.
Thanks for breaking it down on the ethics issue, Chuck. I suppose Prescott Bush used the same rationale for his financial dealings with the Nazis in the 1930’s. “Sure, they’re genocidal fascists, but if they can further MY interests, it’s perfectly ethical to do business with them.”
Ethics? Moral Stand? Only if you’re a sucker, right, Righties?
By GeezGuys
March 24, 2008 11:08 AM | Link to this
Once upon a time, in a galaxy far, far away…
It was in the furtherance of our national interests to support a group called the Mujahideen. They served our purposes well, and brought down the Soviet-puppet government in Afghanistan. A couple of decades later they didn’t do such a hot job of serving American interests. You can see the results in downtown Manhattan, the Pentagon, and that big hole in the ground from flight 93.
Food for thought, Chuck.
By Truth
March 24, 2008 11:29 AM | Link to this
Copyleft
The photo your talk-radio masters are misinterpreting for you was taken during the playing of the National Anthem, not the Pledge of Allegiance.
I apologize. you are correct. However, it is much more than a photo. He has given interviews as to why he believes that he has a right not to place his hand over his heart and refuse to wear an American Flag on his lapel. And, of course, he is correct that he has that right.
In fact, those two issues were pretty silly by themselves, but when the comments from his wife and his pastor are added, they all add up to something that will trouble a lot of Americans.
Personally, I think that his past voting record is the problem. He is so liberal that he makes Ted Kennedy look like Rush Limbaugh. He wanted to invade Pakistan. His economic solution to everything is to raise taxes on the rich, which of course includes any and every small business owner in America.
Of course the fact is that taxes on business are paid by you and me when the price of items increase to cover the cost of increased taxes.
I, like most conservatives, believe that this blood feud between the two dems is good. It will leave them bloodied and weak while draining the coffers of the DNC. And as I have said, it shows Democrats what Republicans have known for 20 years: there is no bottom to the depths that the Clintons will go.
It’s going to be a good year.
By f(x) = 36x^2
March 24, 2008 11:35 AM | Link to this
Truth, I said “absolute monarchy”. That is a whole different animal from a Constitutional monarchy.
It’s interesting to note that in The Economist’s Democracy Index, both Saudi Arabia and Lybia rank lower than Cuba.
Chuck, I wasn’t really making a value judgement about Cuban ex-pats, just a statement of fact. And whatever the reason that we “supported” totalitarian regimes, that doesn’t change the fact that we “supported” them. Shaunti suggested that we can’t support Cuba because we refuse to support dictators - I was simply pointing out the falsehood of that statement.
However, back to the ex-pat discussion. I’m not sure that their interests should be given the weight you suggest. There are other ex-pats from other oppressive regimes living in the US and we don’t base our policies towards those regimes on the opinions of those ex-pats. Vietnam comes to mind - there is a great deal of anxiety among war-era refugees about the thawing of relations between the US and Vietnam.
No, I stand by my statement - Cuban ex-pats are a concentrated group and represent a powerful voting base in an influential state. That is the reason for their disproprtionate power over policy. I guarantee you that if the Cuban ex-pat community was concentrated in, say, Wyoming, no one would pay any attention to them and we would have opened up commerce with Cuba long ago.
By Truth
March 24, 2008 11:36 AM | Link to this
Chuck
While I see benefits for CUBA in easing restrictions on them, I see very little in the way of this helping us in any way.
Gotta disagree. Cuba is 70 miles from our shores. China is courting Cuba as is Venezuela. Why do you think that is? Why do you think the USSR wanted it so much?
One problems is that Castro and his brother are not the only communists in Cuba.
Communism is a caste system with only two castes: the rich ruling party and the dirt poor workers. Cuba has some people that are very wealthy and powerful. They won’t walk away from that wealth without a fight and slaughtering their fellow countrymen is no problem.
I would like to see Cuba become a US territory in our lives.
By Truth
March 24, 2008 12:00 PM | Link to this
f(x) = 36x^2
Truth, I said “absolute monarchy”. That is a whole different animal from a Constitutional monarchy.
Yea, I did a little reading about that this morning.
Strangely enough, Bhutan (a country I have never heard) of is an absolute Monarchy. But it isn’t Islamic, it is Buddhist. It is supposedly transforming to a constitutional monarchy.
Morocco is supposed to be a constitutional Monarchy, but somebody needs to tell the king. We were there when Hussian was King and he had much more power than the president. from what I have read, the new king is even worse.
The Saudis are slime, but like The Shaw of Iran, the alternatives are not good, and they have all the oil.
By chuck
March 24, 2008 1:20 PM | Link to this
Too many posts, too little time…”Praise Teacher” what kind of drugs are you on? How is it IMMORAL for us to NOT have dialogue with the Cuban DICTATOR? It may be immoral for us to LEAVE HIM IN POWER, but it isn’t immoral for us to not talk to him. I’ve thought for years that we ought to arm the Cuban expats and give them ships and planes so they could go down there and take out Castro.
I agree with your assertion John, that Shaunti’s statement about not supporting dictators is funny. We have done that many times and will do it again if our national interests are served by it. I have no trouble giving Cuban expats a seat at the table, because ultimately, they will be the ones to go back in and pick up the pieces when democracy finally takes hold.
Truth, we have a national interest in CONTROLLING Cuba and ACCESS to it, but I see no pressing national interest in making it a vacation destination for Americans. In fact, you ought to be ashamed of yourself for going down there and spending money that helps to prop up that oppressive regime.
GeezGuys, your assertion about the Taliban is correct. However, the mistake was not in supporting them against the Russians. The mistake was in allowing them to harbor terrorists. We knew about the terrorist training camps YEARS before 9/11 and did nothing about them.
By Snidely Buttright
March 24, 2008 1:40 PM | Link to this
The SHAH of Iran was our friend and puppet who would’ve never gotten to power if WE hadn’t installed him there by request of British Petroleum.
The oil execs were PO’d because the elected Irani government nationalized the oil fields so that the Irani people would get the oil money instead of this icon of British colonialism. Iran would’ve still sold us the oil. BP just wouldn’t have gotten the profits. Couldn’t have that could we?
The “alternative” to the Shah was a democratic, nationalist government. Too bad we didn’t leave well enough alone.
By Gandalf, the Grey
March 24, 2008 3:28 PM | Link to this
Iran was much better off under the Shah than it is now. Them dang old diaper headed mullahs are throwbacks to the 13th Century and are worse than a dictatorship. The ONE TRUE GOD is not even in charge of them! How can we have that? (It would be like a Mormon being the PRESIDENT!)
That clown that is nominally in charge over there is a joke. Let’s hope the Israelis get on the ball and take him out.
Why shouldn’t the Brit’s get the money? They are buddies after all. You are too weak to rule Snidely Buttright, I bet your man friend partner is in charge of you relationship! ROTFL! American interests, then others!
By AlanWatts
March 24, 2008 3:39 PM | Link to this
Fanatical believers in the bible, the koran and the torah have fought one another for centuries without realizing they all belong to the same pestiferous club, that they have more in common than they have against one another. A committed believer in the koran trots out the same arguments for his point of view as a Southern Baptist… and neither can listen to reason.
By f(x) = 36x^2
March 24, 2008 3:45 PM | Link to this
I have no trouble giving Cuban expats a seat at the table, because ultimately, they will be the ones to go back in and pick up the pieces when democracy finally takes hold.
What about the Cuban citizens who stayed in Cuba and, assuming democracy takes hold anytime soon, will presumably be largely responsible for that revolution? Don’t you think they’ll have something to say about the direction their country goes in?
It’s kind of arrogant to assume that the Cubans who fled to America will be the ones to stroll back into the country once the bullets have stopped flying, patting the good little natives on the head and saying “Thank you, kindly”.
By Snidely Buttright
March 24, 2008 3:47 PM | Link to this
They were even better off under Mohammad Mossedegh, who was committed to establishing a strong democracy in Iran. We instituted Operation Ajax to topple Mossedegh and re-establish a dictatorial monarchy. Good on us, eh?! Sure took care of American interests on that one!
Yeah, we LIKE democracy - NOT!
By Democracy
March 24, 2008 4:34 PM | Link to this
Democracy is a great idea just as long as you vote our way.
By Lily Toad
March 24, 2008 4:47 PM | Link to this
At last — a topic worth discussing on W to W. I wholeheartedly agree with Andy. What could it possibly hurt to meet with Raoul Castro? Oh, because he’s a communist? His country has human rights abuses and imprisons dissidents? Lets be consistent if that is the US’s position. Cut off trade with China (bye, bye, Walmart), Saudi Arabia (bye, bye, heating oil and gasoline), Korea (bye, bye, cheap electronics).
Don’t forget our former friends, Saddam Hussein, Noriega, and the Shah.
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March 25, 2008 5:46 AM | Link to this
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By Truth
March 25, 2008 8:20 AM | Link to this
Snidely Buttright
They were even better off under Mohammad Mossedegh, who was committed to establishing a strong democracy in Iran. We instituted Operation Ajax to topple Mossedegh and re-establish a dictatorial monarchy. Good on us, eh?! Sure took care of American interests on that one!
Seems you left a few points out.
The Shaw never abdicated power, but allowed a democratic election of a Prime minister who was Mohammad Mossedegh. And yes, he was the guy who played Tom Cat and sprayed the modern, efficient oil industry that British Petroleum had spent millions to establish, claiming MINE.
After the embargo, inspired by this blatant theft, Iran started quickly getting into economic trouble. Oil had been their only major export and that had been stopped. So while the less educated of Iran were dancing in the streets, the people in the know understood that their country was in a steep economic nose dive.
At that point, the Shaw stepped in to stop the rapidly declining economy of his country and worked with the US and British to re-establish British ownership of the industrty they had built.
So while it must sure feel good to give the old US another good poke, the people of Iran were not better off under Mossedegh.
By Truth
March 25, 2008 8:37 AM | Link to this
Lily Toad
I agree that we need to re-establish relationships with Cuba, but the Castro Brothers are probably not the answer. Communism is a strict caste system that only allows two castes: the incredibly rich and powerful ruling class and the dirt poor worker. That’s why communism has fallen all over the world from the inside.
It’s hard to talk the elite ruling class that has conned the population into abdicating their ultimate power. I’m all for raising the travel restrictions and flooding Havana with Americans, spending money like crazy. Watch small businesses spring up and soon, you’ve got capitalism.
My other point is this: if you think Walmart is the only place you can buy China-made goods, you are not checking your labels. China made goods make up the majority of products sold in every big box store in the US. in fact, other than some stores who know that people are dumb enough to buy the big name labels, there is little difference between the goods sold at all the big box stores.
The problem with Walmart is that they simply do not allow Unions to run their stores. I don’t think that is a problem, myself.
By Truth
March 25, 2008 8:47 AM | Link to this
Alenwatts
A committed believer in the koran trots out the same arguments for his point of view as a Southern Baptist… and neither can listen to reason.
That’s right. Those damned Baptist flying planes into buildings and strapping bombs on their own children have been such a huge problem.
Somebody get a rope!!
By Truth
March 25, 2008 8:56 AM | Link to this
Snidely Buttright
One other thing. The Shaw was “installed” when his father was arrested for his relationship with the Germans during WWII. He inherited the throne. He was the very person who allowed election of the Prime Minister who quickly started steering the country toward financial ruin.
By Truth
March 25, 2008 9:12 AM | Link to this
Chuck
Truth, we have a national interest in CONTROLLING Cuba and ACCESS to it, but I see no pressing national interest in making it a vacation destination for Americans. In fact, you ought to be ashamed of yourself for going down there and spending money that helps to prop up that oppressive regime.
Yea, I was there for about 6 hours. I’m trying to remember. I think I had a couple of meals, a few beers two tee shirts and came back home. I’m pretty sure that 20 bucks I spent probably supported Castro for months. I’m soooo ashamed.
I was treated like a king. They love Americans. I would have loved to spend thousands supporting those poor people trying to feed their families with anything better than Castro’s beans. It’s the American way. We are more than happy to help poor, hard working people, no matter how stupid their government is.
A wagging finger is not an attractive trait, chuck.
By WaggerBack
March 25, 2008 9:28 AM | Link to this
I think Walmart is a generic term at this point for Made in China. I seriously doubt LilyToad is unaware many other stores also contain Made in China products. She is a pretty sharp person.
By USinUK
March 25, 2008 9:40 AM | Link to this
I’m with whoever argued above that we seem to have no problem working with China, which has a FAR worse human rights record than Cuba, while we demonize Cuba. Fact is, our trade with China, Viet Nam, etc., is what has helped them turn away from Communism in a peaceful, effective way. Even though China is still considered “communist”, it should have a Barry Bonds * next to the word. Capitalism through trade with the US has given the people power and the desire for ownership in a far more effective way than our embargoes ever could.
By WaggerBack
March 25, 2008 10:28 AM | Link to this
we did that only after Vietnam’s leaders took some baby steps, like developing international trade rules. Thanks, Shaunti.
So Human Rights really has nothing to do with it, contrary to popular misconception; the ability to engage in trade(on our terms of course) prompts our dislike for Cuba.
By Robert Hunter
March 25, 2008 10:41 AM | Link to this
We made the run from Hamburg to Munich in two buses. Castles along the Rhine. Black Forest at night were werewolves roam. Bombed out ruins of old Heidelberg University. US-Brit postwar retaliatory blitz of gemutlich Germany , ancient before ever those snot nosed killers transformed high romance to schmaltz and wrecked the language for poets for generations to come. Too many lies had been told in it, concepts of the heart and the very words to say them expropriated for purposes of rape. We had lies of our own to tell, but not hateful ones. Told them with music.
By Robert Hunter
March 25, 2008 10:48 AM | Link to this
We had come to save the world but, starting in Germany, began to realize that worlds cannot be saved. All are tentative. So we learned to dance on graves and be glad. None recover, they are just replaced. In 1972, the German Nation was still in shock, only halfway between then and now. We had Vietnam. All were crazy. None were sane. Hausfrauen at dawn, trying to scrub their little patches of sidewalk. Free of blame, look up to see busloads of the Dead with red rubber noses waving, laughing. Register nothing. Continue scrubbing. Siest du die Toten? Only the children see.
By AlanWatts
March 25, 2008 10:50 AM | Link to this
That’s right. Those damned Baptist flying planes into buildings and strapping bombs on their own children have been such a huge problem.
That’s right. Those fundies with their bombs for abortion clinics haven’t been a problem at all. They’ve only killed and/or injured a few doctors and nurses.
By lori
March 25, 2008 10:56 AM | Link to this
When Bush Took Office, Gas was $1.46
By Abe
March 25, 2008 10:59 AM | Link to this
Bumperstickers for our day:
That’s OK; I Wasn’t Using My Civil Liberties Anyway
Lets Fix Democracy in This Country First
1/20/09: End of an Error
By Lyrazel
March 25, 2008 11:14 AM | Link to this
WE NEED the Castro monarchy to stay in control so we can continue methodical torture at Guantanamo Bay that we cannot do in the states because of laws made by liberals. We need their government kept poor by sanctions that we do not apply to other nations (see China, Saudi Arabia,, Pakistan blah blah blah) We need Raoul so we can continue operating naval exercises because Florida waters are semi-protected by stupid American environmental laws Until we don’t fear Cuban invasions Raoul must stay in control. Without our axis of evil who could we hate enough to keep alive the billion dollar weapons industry? Its in our best interests to keep Cuba poor so we have a great cheap vacation destination when the dollar falls lower than the Mexican peso.
By Truth
March 25, 2008 11:19 AM | Link to this
AlanWatts
That’s right. Those fundies with their bombs for abortion clinics haven’t been a problem at all. They’ve only killed and/or injured a few doctors and nurses.
No one deserves to die for that, but those abortion clinics represent a multi-billion dollar industry that has slaughtered 1/10th of our population (30,000,000 people)
I am truly sorry that anyone got hurt or killed, but to compare a few deaths and injuries with the wholesale slaughter of millions: anyone apposed to radical Islam is nonsense.
It does sound pretty good until you actually start looking at the reality of the numbers.
Gotta be careful about that anti-religous stuff if you guys are going to run a man who blindly follows a religous leader who just happens to be a raging bigot.
By guesswho
March 25, 2008 11:20 AM | Link to this
Apples and Wine
Women are like apples on trees. The best ones are at the top of the tree. Most men don’t want to reach for the good ones because they are afraid of falling and getting hurt.
Instead, they sometimes take the apples from the ground that aren’t as good, but easy. The apples at the top think something is wrong with them, when in reality, they’re amazing. They just have to wait for the right man to come along, the one who is brave enough to climb all the way to the top of the tree.
Now Men…. Men are like a fine wine. They begin as grapes, and it’s up to Women to stomp the s**t out of them until they turn into something acceptable to have dinner with.
See the difference?
By chuck
March 25, 2008 11:21 AM | Link to this
Alan, you said:
That’s right. Those fundies with their bombs for abortion clinics haven’t been a problem at all. They’ve only killed and/or injured a few doctors and nurses.
Here’s the difference you liberal buffoon: Every preacher that I have any knowledge of UNWAVERINGLY DENOUNCED THESE HOMEGROWN TERRORISTS AND CALLED FOR THEM TO BE PROSECUTED TO THE FULLEST EXTENT OF THE LAW.
By chuck
March 25, 2008 11:23 AM | Link to this
For the Southern Baptist stance on that issue, read the article:
http://www.bpnews.net/bpnews.asp?Id=1965
By Truth
March 25, 2008 11:32 AM | Link to this
Lyrazel
Guantanamo Bay was established as a US Navel base in 1898, a bit before the Bush administration and a bit before Castro.
One of the biggest supporters of several “progressive” web sites like MoveOn.org is George Soros, one of the world’s leading Arms dealers.
And regarding your in depth research into any Egyptology Conferences held at Morehouse last week, I never said it was a conference. It was a two day African funeral where I heard the good Rev. Wright speak. The Egyptology expert that died was Dr. Asa Grant Hilliard III. He died on August 13, 2007.
If you have any more questions, please ask.
By Dr. Herpes
March 25, 2008 11:33 AM | Link to this
Instead, they sometimes take the apples from the ground that aren’t as good, but easy.
You have a mighty high opinion about yourself, don’t you?
By AlanWatts
March 25, 2008 11:33 AM | Link to this
Fanatical believers in the bible, the koran and the torah have fought one another for centuries without realizing they all belong to the same pestiferous club, that they have more in common than they have against one another. A committed believer in the koran trots out the same arguments for his point of view as a southern baptist… and neither can listen to reason.
Fanatics of every persuasion are a danger to all.
By Truth
March 25, 2008 11:35 AM | Link to this
Lyrazel
The US dollar is at it’s lowest point against International currency since 1995.
So who was president in 1995. I’ve moved on. I just can’t remember.
By Self-Righteousness 101
March 25, 2008 11:42 AM | Link to this
Since Bush has no foreign policy clue, now they are changing back.
I understand that, as Americans, we want to believe this moral highground. It simply isn’t true.
Thanks for breaking it down on the ethics issue, Chuck.
You can see the results in downtown Manhattan, the Pentagon, and that big hole in the ground from flight 93.
Or how about our support of Saudi Arabia - the only true absolute monarchy left on the planet
The oil execs were PO’d because the elected Irani government nationalized the oil fields so that the Irani people would get the oil money instead of this icon of British colonialism.
WE NEED the Castro monarchy to stay in control so we can continue methodical torture at Guantanamo Bay that we cannot do in the states because of laws made by liberals.
When Bush Took Office, Gas was $1.46
By Post-Doctoral Self-Righteousness
March 25, 2008 11:44 AM | Link to this
For the Southern Baptist stance on that issue, read the article:
By Truth
March 25, 2008 11:46 AM | Link to this
AlanWatts
Fanatics of every persuasion are a danger to all.
Especially political fanatics. Hell, they will even support a candidate that supports religous bigots. They all need to be stopped.
Agreed?
By Post-Doctoral Self-Righteousness
March 25, 2008 11:50 AM | Link to this
Truth, you’re doing a good job today. Keep blitzing them with the facts, keep the sarcasm to a minimum, and you’ll deserve your moniker.
By Ismelarat
March 25, 2008 11:54 AM | Link to this
from “A River Runs Through It” There’s not that much difference between Methodists and Baptists … except most Methodists can read.
By Post-Doctoral Self-Righteousness
March 25, 2008 11:59 AM | Link to this
There’s not that much difference between Methodists and Baptists … except most Methodists can read.
By USinUK
March 25, 2008 12:03 PM | Link to this
Instead, they sometimes take the apples from the ground that aren’t as good, but easy. The apples at the top think something is wrong with them, when in reality, they’re amazing. They just have to wait for the right man to come along, the one who is brave enough to climb all the way to the top of the tree.
ohfercryingoutloud. who actually WRITES BS like this??? even worse, who actually BELIEVES it???
The US dollar is at it’s lowest point against International currency since 1995.
actually, a weak dollar isn’t necessarily a bad thing when you actually make things - it allows people/companies to buy things cheaper (just ask the companies in the Eurozone how the strong Euro is working out for them). In fact, that’s one of the reasons Clinton had a weak-dollar economic policy.
However, since the US has become more service-oriented than manufacturing-oriented, the weak dollar isn’t going to benefit the country quite as much.
just my £.02.
By Post-Doctoral Self-Righteousness
March 25, 2008 12:11 PM | Link to this
USinUK—Thank you again for your posts. Liberal or not, you have a brain and make a lot of sense. Hopefully you caught the post from Doc last week pointing out the same thing re: the “weak dollar”. It is my hope that our manufacturing base will be reinvigorated by the weak dollar. On a personal front, however, I’m still buying up futures in gold and precious metals to prevent my own assets from becoming worthless.
By Post-Doctoral Self-Righteousness
March 25, 2008 12:19 PM | Link to this
BTW, USinUK—Your hubby is one of the luckiest men on this planet. Of course, in my worldview, we make our own luck. my hat is off to both of you. Keep leading by example.
Gotta run for the day and spread some more self-righteousness around. Take care.
By Lyrazel
March 25, 2008 12:22 PM | Link to this
Truth: Who was Prez in 95? Doubt I voted for him. Where is Ross Perot when we need him to buy Cuba?
By Jose Arcadio
March 25, 2008 12:28 PM | Link to this
If there are just two ruling parties, wasn’t that the same way before Castro? The white, plantation owners had all of the wealth. The poor, blacks, and mulattos were poor.
And to answer the question, they should talk to Raoul. But they should not let the Cubans in Miami dictate the talks. Cuba will go right back to the way it was pre-Castro. The white elites holding all the power.
By USinUK
March 25, 2008 12:29 PM | Link to this
PDSR -
Hopefully you caught the post from Doc last week pointing out the same thing re: the “weak dollar”.
Actually, I was on vacation last week, doing my best to boost the US economy by taking advantage of said weak dollar. If you hear about a spike in retail activity during the month of March, that was me.
Yep, I’m a giver.
as far as buying futures - while gold is good, I’d stick with copper, aluminum, steel, etc. As long as countries like China are building, these commodities are going to be dear.
By Arc Of A Diver
March 25, 2008 12:33 PM | Link to this
She bathes me in sweetness I cannot reveal
For sharing dreams I need my woman
Because with you, I’m much stronger
By AlanWatts
March 25, 2008 12:36 PM | Link to this
Especially political fanatics. Hell, they will even support a candidate that supports religous bigots. They all need to be stopped. Yeah, like McCain’s support from Hagee and his ilk?
By Truth
March 25, 2008 12:38 PM | Link to this
Jose Arcadio
Cuba will go right back to the way it was pre-Castro. The white elites holding all the power.
Damn White people. They are the worst!
By Truth
March 25, 2008 12:41 PM | Link to this
UsinUK
Thanks for your efforts.
You are a giver.
And don’t think we don’t appreciate it.
By Truth
March 25, 2008 12:44 PM | Link to this
Lyrazel
Truth: Who was Prez in 95? Doubt I voted for him. Where is Ross Perot when we need him to buy Cuba?
LOL!
Maybe Soros will buy it. Move General Dynamics and Boeing down there. Ship those arms right out of Havana.
By Arc Of A Diver
March 25, 2008 12:45 PM | Link to this
as far as buying futures - while gold is good, I’d stick with copper, aluminum, steel, etc. As long as countries like China are building, these commodities are going to be dear.
Solid advice, girl. Actually, I’m planning on dumping the gold in a few months when I believe it will reach a peak. For longer-term investing I think you’re right on the money regarding China’s growing appetite for “manufacturing metals”.
You’d like my new lady friend. She regularly indulges herself with “Shopping Therapy.” ; > }
By USinUK
March 25, 2008 12:50 PM | Link to this
Truth -
Damn White people. They are the worst!
I think the color of their skin matters less than the fact that the majority of the land/money was held by a very small minority of the people who then took advantage of the workers in the sugar cane fields.
Fact is, you don’t have a revolutions when the workers are well-compensated and there is the opportunity to work your way up the ladder.
By Truth
March 25, 2008 12:51 PM | Link to this
AlanWatts
Yeah, like McCain’s support from Hagee and his ilk?
Nope. Not exactly. I’m talking about a candidate that exposes his children to bigotry and hate being spewed from the pulpit for their entire lives. A candidate that financially supports such a hateful and bigoted preacher for 20 years. That kind of fanatical politician.
McCain got an endorsement from Hagee. Now that would compare to a fanatical candidate that would get his endorsement from an anti-semite bigot like Screwy Lewy Ferrakhan.
You are getting your bigots mixed up.
By USinUK
March 25, 2008 12:55 PM | Link to this
Arc -
never underestimate the power of retail therapy. a good pair of shoes can undo the damage of a cruddy week at work.
By Jose Arcadio
March 25, 2008 12:56 PM | Link to this
It is not even about that…but once again. Typical that you don’t know what it is like to be a minority.
By AliceWatts
March 25, 2008 12:58 PM | Link to this
She bathes me in sweetness I cannot reveal For sharing dreams I need my woman Because with you, I’m much stronger
ohfercryingoutloud. who actually WRITES BS like this??? even worse, who actually BELIEVES it???
By WaggerBack
March 25, 2008 1:03 PM | Link to this
Fact is, you don’t have a revolutions when the workers are well-compensated and there is the opportunity to work your way up the ladder.
Yes, if Batiste had been such a swell guy, Castro never would have been able to have a Revolucion.
wasn’t Batiste basically Our Man in Havana? Kinda sounds like the USA is directly responsible for the Cuban Revolution.
By Arc Of A Diver
March 25, 2008 1:05 PM | Link to this
never underestimate the power of retail therapy. a good pair of shoes can undo the damage of a cruddy week at work.
Maybe you two are related…. ; > }
Is your skin a beautiful brown color (much darker than Obama’s)?
By Truth
March 25, 2008 1:05 PM | Link to this
USinUK
The last time I went to Miami, the Cubans that were everywhere were every color of the human existence.
But it is such a convenience to blame even the plight of Latinos that were subjugated by other Latinos on White people.
Girl, we simply can’t be responsible for every evil that has ever occurred anywhere in the world. Now maybe the poster meant to say “the lighter skinned Latinos”, but that is not what they said.
Here’s an idea: Let’s ALL be concerned about being politically correct.
By WaggerBack
March 25, 2008 1:05 PM | Link to this
BatistA - what a guy!
By Arc Of A Diver
March 25, 2008 1:07 PM | Link to this
Typical that you don’t know what it is like to be a minority.
Jose—Do you want to borrow my crying towel?
By USinUK
March 25, 2008 1:07 PM | Link to this
AliceWatts -
Steve Winwood.
By Truth
March 25, 2008 1:09 PM | Link to this
Jose Arcadio
It is not even about that…but once again. Typical that you don’t know what it is like to be a minority.
I am legally a Native American. Is that enough of a minority, or was I just simply born to be just another damn white person?
By Arc Of A Diver
March 25, 2008 1:11 PM | Link to this
Kinda sounds like the USA is directly responsible for the Cuban Revolution.
My self-righteous podium is also available, Waggerback.
By Arc Of A Diver
March 25, 2008 1:13 PM | Link to this
The last time I went to Miami, the Cubans that were everywhere were every color of the human existence.
I just spent the last two weeks in Miami, Truth. The “white” Cubans are among the most arrogant people on Earth.
By chuck
March 25, 2008 1:14 PM | Link to this
From Chuck’s Book of wisdom:
There’s not that much difference between ismelarat and a pile of dog turds … except well, there is no difference.
By USinUK
March 25, 2008 1:16 PM | Link to this
Wagger -
if the shoe fits …
By Carmelita
March 25, 2008 1:16 PM | Link to this
So right Jose! It’s easy to keep your privileged blinders on when you’re a white guy. Pobrecito, having to endure affirmative action! Now we’ll hear about how he’s never, never, ever had things easy just because he’s white! Aye, verdad!
By Arc Of A Diver
March 25, 2008 1:22 PM | Link to this
There’s not that much difference between ismelarat and a pile of dog turds … except well, there is no difference.
Like I keep saying, chuckles, get back to me when you grow a set of balls. You’ve got my address.
By Truth
March 25, 2008 1:23 PM | Link to this
Arc Of A Diver
I just spent the last two weeks in Miami, Truth. The “white” Cubans are among the most arrogant people on Earth.
See? Damn White people.
I so much want to be a minority. I could get better contracts with Government agencies and stuff. I could be so hip. And to be honest, I think the girls would like me more.
By Arc Of A Diver
March 25, 2008 1:25 PM | Link to this
So right Jose! It’s easy to keep your privileged blinders on when you’re a white guy. Pobrecito, having to endure affirmative action! Now we’ll hear about how he’s never, never, ever had things easy just because he’s white! Aye, verdad!
Carmelita—cuando Jose esta terminado con mi toalla, puede usarlo.
By AlanWatts
March 25, 2008 1:25 PM | Link to this
“When you picture the universe as a monarchy (as Chuck and other fundamentalists do) how can you believe a republic is the best form of government, and so be a loyal citizen of the US? It is thus that fundamentalists veer to the extreme right wing in politics, being of the personality type that demands strong external and paternalistic authority.”
By Truth
March 25, 2008 1:29 PM | Link to this
Carmelita
So right Jose! It’s easy to keep your privileged blinders on when you’re a white guy. Pobrecito, having to endure affirmative action! Now we’ll hear about how he’s never, never, ever had things easy just because he’s white! Aye, verdad!
Oh, you are so Wright. When the Butler would walk me out to the limo to go to my private school, I always hated it. And that old smelly Lear jet that Daddy bought me for middle school graduation: it was just so tacky. And tell me: have you ever tried to get the oil changed in a Ferrari?
You have no idea how hard it is to be white.
By sweet-sp
March 25, 2008 1:32 PM | Link to this
Sorry, but what is mariburjeka?
Jane.
By sweet-sp
March 25, 2008 1:32 PM | Link to this
Sorry, but what is mariburjeka?
Jane.
By sweet-sp
March 25, 2008 1:32 PM | Link to this
Sorry, but what is mariburjeka?
Jane.
By USinUK
March 25, 2008 1:34 PM | Link to this
Truth -
Girl, we simply can’t be responsible for every evil that has ever occurred anywhere in the world. Now maybe the poster meant to say “the lighter skinned Latinos”, but that is not what they said.
… heavy sigh …
first of all, let me be blunt here - I’m so white, if I had kids, they’d be translucent. or a light shade of blue. I glow in the dark. I’m saying, I am w-h-i-t-e. so, fwiw, I don’t know what it’s like to be native american, black, cuban or anything else.
now. having said that …
The people who have wielded the majority of the power over the last 500 years or so have been (in no particular order): Spanish, Portugese, Dutch, Turkish, English, German, Russian and American. In other words, the fact is that those in power were primarily white with a little bit of light brown thrown in for good measure. HOWEVER, IMHO, the “evil” of which you speak comes from being in power - the color of the skin is incidental. Refer to the rule of “Power corrupts.”
but that’s just my opinion.
By Arc Of A Diver
March 25, 2008 1:35 PM | Link to this
BTW, AlanWatts—Your books on Zen don’t hold a candle to those written by my man, Shunryu Suzuki.
By ismelarat
March 25, 2008 1:37 PM | Link to this
Ohhhh Chuck, you took that personally? I think maybe you need a laxative sweetie. Please look for Exlax or Milk of Magnesia!!!
By Truth
March 25, 2008 1:40 PM | Link to this
AlanWatts
When you picture the universe as a monarchy (as Chuck and other fundamentalists do)
I don’t ever remember hearing a fundy actually say that Bush should also be the president of Pluto or even Neptune.
Yes, Mercury.
Yes, Mars and damn it, yes even Saturn.
Maybe a few nebulas and perhaps a galaxy or two, but there’s plenty of planets out there for everyone.
By Arc Of A Diver
March 25, 2008 1:41 PM | Link to this
The people who have wielded the majority of the power over the last 500 years or so have been (in no particular order): Spanish, Portugese, Dutch, Turkish, English, German, Russian and American. In other words, the fact is that those in power were primarily white with a little bit of light brown thrown in for good measure. HOWEVER, IMHO, the “evil” of which you speak comes from being in power - the color of the skin is incidental. Refer to the rule of “Power corrupts.”
Don’t forget the other half of the adage, USinUK: “Lack of power corrupts”. A lot of folks like Jose and Carmelita live by that one, and use it to justify not paying their fair share of taxes, by not getting married legally so that they can collect their WIC coupons, etc. Corruption isn’t just limited to those in power.
By Arc Of A Diver
March 25, 2008 1:53 PM | Link to this
I don’t ever remember hearing a fundy actually say that Bush should also be the president of Pluto or even Neptune.
Other Truth—You were doing a lot better before I showed up today. I must be a bad influence on you.
I believe that the Other AlanWatts was referring to the Old Testament vision of a totalitarian God who wiped out cities at whim. Of course, The Old Testament is little more than a self-righteous justification by the ancient Jews to help rationalize their own self-righteous land grab of Palestine. The same justification that the Zionists used in the late 1800s to present time.
By USinUK
March 25, 2008 1:57 PM | Link to this
Arc -
Don’t forget the other half of the adage, USinUK: “Lack of power corrupts”.
ummm … no. the other half of the adage is “absolute power corrupts absolutely.”
as for “not paying their fair share in taxes,” that would be laughable if it wasn’t so pathetic. do you really think that poor people don’t pay taxes? they buy clothes. they buy food. they pay rent. they contribute to SocSec - oh, they pay taxes, all right.
and, let’s compare 10 poor families who are scamming the WIC program with 10 rich families who set up trust funds to avoid paying income taxes … who do you think is making off with more money???
By USinUK
March 25, 2008 2:02 PM | Link to this
I’m audi for the night … hasta del fuegos …
By Facts
March 25, 2008 2:07 PM | Link to this
and, let’s compare 10 poor families who are scamming the WIC program with 10 rich families who set up trust funds to avoid paying income taxes … who do you think is making off with more money???
now, now, let’s not confuse people with actual facts.
By Arc Of A Diver
March 25, 2008 2:09 PM | Link to this
as for “not paying their fair share in taxes,” that would be laughable if it wasn’t so pathetic. do you really think that poor people don’t pay taxes? they buy clothes. they buy food. they pay rent. they contribute to SocSec - oh, they pay taxes, all right.
I have been poor for most of my life, USinUK, and currently live in a lower-middle class neighborhood that is 90% latino. I’m very familiar with corruption by the “poor”.
and, let’s compare 10 poor families who are scamming the WIC program with 10 rich families who set up trust funds to avoid paying income taxes … who do you think is making off with more money???
Sorry, dear, two wrongs never make a right. While I appreciate the compassion from which you speak, I cannot support your conclusions that it’s only right for the “poor” to “even things up” by being dishonest themselves. Even Jesus said “Render unto Caesar that which is Caesar’s.”
By Umph
March 25, 2008 2:11 PM | Link to this
The Old Testament is little more than a self-righteous justification by the ancient Jews to help rationalize their own self-righteous land grab of Palestine. The same justification that the Zionists used in the late 1800s to present time.
but that is so AntiSemitic. to say such things. you best watch out for Mossad at your doorstep. Heresy, Heresy I say. God will smite you down.
By Arc Of A Diver
March 25, 2008 2:12 PM | Link to this
And just so you know, I got that adage from my own book on self-righteousness. In case you haven’t noticed, I hold several advanced degrees in the subject. ; > }
Have a great day, gotta see a client.
By Truth
March 25, 2008 2:19 PM | Link to this
Arc Of A Diver
Other Truth—You were doing a lot better before I showed up today. I must be a bad influence on you.
LOL11 I was just bursting with sarcasm and i couldn’t help myself. I end up setting here laughing at a lot of the things being said and trust me, you are getting the watered down versions.
I believe that the Other AlanWatts was referring to the Old Testament vision of a totalitarian God who wiped out cities at whim. Of course, The Old Testament is little more than a self-righteous justification by the ancient Jews to help rationalize their own self-righteous land grab of Palestine. The same justification that the Zionists used in the late 1800s to present time.
Oh no. You are wrong about that. As I have said before, as a kid, I hated listening to the preacher in church so I would read the Bible, particularly the old testament. Maybe it’s just me, but it is incredibly interesting, and not even from a religous standpoint.
As far as Palestine, remember that Israel was one of several nations that got their land. I don’t see Syria giving back anything either. `It is not about the land, it is about the religions. Muslims and Jews just don’t mix.
If I were king, I would give the pile of sand back to the Palestinians and give Israel an Island in the South Pacific. I have never understood the fighting over sand thing.
Think about how stupid all war is. A few blocks from my house, almost 10,000 men died trying to take a chunk of land where a Jiffy Lube now sets.
By Truth
March 25, 2008 2:21 PM | Link to this
USinUK
Buenos Aires
By ismelarat
March 25, 2008 2:27 PM | Link to this
D-mn, Truth you are so dense dude.
By Truth
March 25, 2008 2:37 PM | Link to this
ismelarat
D-mn, Truth you are so dense dude.
Dense? Like packed with knowledge?
By Truth
March 25, 2008 2:39 PM | Link to this
Jose
Via con Dios, Amigo.
By AlanWatts
March 25, 2008 2:53 PM | Link to this
Christianity, Islam and Judaism are monarchies. They are led by one authority whom you must bow down to or you are punished. The architecture and ritual of churches, synagogues and mosques are based on royal or judicial courts. A monarch who rules by force sits - flacked by guards and those who come to petition him for justice or to offer tribute must kneel or prostrate themselves. King James? Lord Jesus! God is King. Crown Him with glory or crown him with thorns. Obey Him without question or you will be struck dead for eternity. Kingly titles, entitlement, fear and punishment - to keep the people in check because King/Monarch/God cannot be everywhere at all times.
By carmelita
March 25, 2008 2:59 PM | Link to this
Da nada. El juego nunca encima.
By Arc Of A Diver
March 25, 2008 3:03 PM | Link to this
Carmelita—cuando Jose ha terminado con mi toalla, puede usarla.
Gracias por su ayuda. Apprendo las formas de los verbos ya, y a veces no se cual forma por usar.
No tenga enojado a mis palabras; lo amo los latinos, especialmente mi novia, quien es dominicana.
By isaacasimov
March 25, 2008 3:13 PM | Link to this
“Democracy cannot survive overpopulation. Human dignity cannot survive it. Convenience and decency cannot survive it. As you put more and more people onto the world, the value of life not only declines, it disappears. It doesn’t matter if someone dies. The more people there are, the less one individual matters.”
By chuck
March 25, 2008 3:16 PM | Link to this
USinUK, it depends on what you mean by “power”, AND whether you are using that as a pejorative.
Certainly AMERICA has weilded much power for GOOD in the world. Last time I looked, America was made up of people of ALL kinds of races, religions and backgrounds.
As for those “other groups”, you are talking about 2 different races and many different ethnic groups. This debate should be not so much about power as HOW THAT POWER IS USED. America certainly has the power to take the Castro’s out of power, but we choose to not use it. Our policy toward them has been to put economic pressure on them to bring about democratic reforms. If you noticed, it appears to be working. About half of their olympic team defected a couple of weeks ago. They will have to reform their government or completely imprison their citizens. Makes sense to me to “Stay the Course”.
By Mossé
March 25, 2008 5:02 PM | Link to this
aegroto fervidus alquando oris.
By sweeta-pv
March 25, 2008 10:03 PM | Link to this
Sorry, but what is kimerikas?
Jane.
By sweeta-pv
March 25, 2008 10:03 PM | Link to this
Sorry, but what is kimerikas?
Jane.
By sweeta-pv
March 25, 2008 10:03 PM | Link to this
Sorry, but what is kimerikas?
Jane.
By sweeta-st
March 25, 2008 11:38 PM | Link to this
Sorry, but what is kimerikas?
Jane.
By sweeta-st
March 25, 2008 11:38 PM | Link to this
Sorry, but what is kimerikas?
Jane.
By sweeta-st
March 25, 2008 11:39 PM | Link to this
Sorry, but what is kimerikas?
Jane.
By sweeta-sm
March 26, 2008 1:08 AM | Link to this
Sorry, but what is kimerikas?
Jane.
By sweeta-sm
March 26, 2008 1:08 AM | Link to this
Sorry, but what is kimerikas?
Jane.
By sweeta-sm
March 26, 2008 1:08 AM | Link to this
Sorry, but what is kimerikas?
Jane.
By Senor Perro
March 26, 2008 8:39 AM | Link to this
Buenos dias, bloggers. For those of you not up on your Spanish, I thought you might like to know what carmelita was saying yesterday. After I mentioned that my GF is from the Dominican Republic, she immediately called her a wh-ore, and stated that every Dominican lady starts sleeping around by age 11. Then she made a broad, sweeping statement that every person of Dominican descent who has relocated to the US is either a thief or a drug addict. Of course, this is all came after her opening salvo in which she stated that white men are automatically born into a life of privilege. Such a fine lady, that carmelita. Anyone like to venture a guess as to what her political orientation is? I’ll bet dollars to donuts (or should I say pesos to tacos) that she is a Clinton supporter.
By Gandalf, the Grey
March 26, 2008 8:42 AM | Link to this
I despise people that don’t speak english, don’t you?
By Senor Perro
March 26, 2008 8:50 AM | Link to this
Of course, what is so ironic to me is that while a lot of latino people like to cry about how they are discriminated against by “whitey”, in the end, they are often some of the most prejudicial people among themselves. Just ask a columbiana how they feel about the mexicanas and get ready for some foul language. I’ve had several Argentinans and Uruguayans tell me in confidence that they are “embarrassed” by the mestizo (i.e. mixed heritage) peoples from Peru and Bolivia. And don’t get me started on the Cubans down in Miami. So much for latino unity….
The biggest lesson I’ve learned in life is that all people are basically the same underneath the various skin hues.
By Senor Perro
March 26, 2008 8:54 AM | Link to this
I despise people that don’t speak english, don’t you?
I can’t say I despise people who don’t speak English, Gandalf, but I do think it’s ridiculous that the US government spends so much money printing official documents in 2 languages now, and spends so much money on court interpreters to accommodate people who REFUSE to learn English.
By Senor Perro
March 26, 2008 9:05 AM | Link to this
USinUK—Next time you’re in Lilburn, GA, I’d like you to visit the WIC facility by my house. Based on the quality of vehicles parked outside, you might think you were at the Ritz-Carlton in Buckhead rather than at a free grocery coupon facility. Every day I see brand new Lexus SUVs, Cadillac SUVs, etc. It is extremely rare to see anyone driving an older model sedan. Almost always, the “husband” tags along with mama and their 5-6 kids.
One of the biggest myths regarding illegal immigrants, IMO, is that they are somehow a benefit to America, insofar as they “do jobs that white and black Americans refuse to do”. BS. Though I don’t think the final figures are in, every estimate I’ve seen shows that these folks are a tremendous tax liability to the rest of us who are forced to play by the rules. Sorry to have a chip on my shoulder about it, but I don’t really feel any obligation to support these folks who keep having baby after baby at my expense.
By Senor Perro
March 26, 2008 9:17 AM | Link to this
BTW, USinUK, I laughed my butt off at your description of your skin color yesterday. ; > } You should fit in well in Britain.
I used to be enraptured by women with extremely pale skin like yours, but like the saying goes “once you go black, you never go back!” I can hardly sleep at night thinking about my lady friend’s dark brown skin.
By USinUK
March 26, 2008 9:18 AM | Link to this
chuck -
it depends on what you mean by “power”, AND whether you are using that as a pejorative
Good gravy, chuck, read the context - we’re talking about whether whites are responsible for all the “evil” in the world. My point is as it was - that it’s the power, not the skin color, that has caused the corruption. Leadership, governance or colonialization - whatever you want to call it, it’s power - neither good nor bad, it just is. However, that power does corrupt. It always has. It always will.
America certainly has the power to take the Castro’s out of power, but we choose to not use it.
baaahahahahahaha … now, that’s funny. You do realize that the US tried to assassinate Castro no less than 638 times, don’t you?? It’s not that the US is so good and so kind that we let him stay in power while we implemented economic embargoes, it’s just that our attempts failed.
As far as the US doing good in the world - yes, it has. The US has also propped up the likes of the Shah of Iran, Saddam Hussein, and Augusto Pinochet, to name but a few - using its power to negate the will of the people.
Our policy toward them has been to put economic pressure on them to bring about democratic reforms. If you noticed, it appears to be working.
Really?? The Castro dynasty is no longer in power?? The fact of the matter is that we have gotten farther faster with countries such as Viet Nam and China because we traded with them and because we kept dialogue open with them.
By Senor Perro
March 26, 2008 9:26 AM | Link to this
Good gravy, chuck, read the context
Hate to disappoint you, USinUK, but you’re talking to a man who thinks the Bible somehow states that the Earth is only a few thousand years old and that dinosaurs were among the passengers on Noah’s Ark. But don’t let me discourage you; maybe you like beating your head against a wall…..
Fine Southern Baptist, that chuckles.
By Senor Perro
March 26, 2008 9:31 AM | Link to this
As far as the US doing good in the world - yes, it has. The US has also propped up the likes of the Shah of Iran, Saddam Hussein, and Augusto Pinochet, to name but a few - using its power to negate the will of the people.
You know, you’re so right, USinUK: The US is by far the most evil empire to exist on the face of this Earth. That is, until you consider anywhere else…..
All those trillions of dollars of aid to Africa and other impoverished areas around the globe. Just despicable, I say. And putting an end to German and Japanese aggression in WWII—I just can’t think of anything more horrible.
By USinUK
March 26, 2008 9:40 AM | Link to this
Senor Perro -
Re: the folkses you see at WIC - I’m sure there are people out there like that - the question is whether it’s a small % or a majority. My money is on a small percentage. And, to be clear, I’m not saying that 2 wrongs make a right with regards to tax loopholes that rich people use.
My point is more along the lines of “let those without sin cast the first stone” - a lot of people who complain about benefit recipients gaming the system have no problem cheating on their taxes, padding their deductions. Just sayin’.
Lastly - and let me be perfectly clear on this - you will not find anyone who is more anti-illegal immigration than I am. I am jumping through every flippin’ hoop I have to to live in the UK. My husband did the same when he lived in the US. It ain’t cheap and it ain’t easy - so, yes, it ticks me off when people fly under the radar.
I just think, however, that if the gov’t came down like thunder on the people/companies that employed them, you’d be amazed at how quickly the numbers of illegal workers would dwindle. They’re here for jobs - remove the jobs and you’ll remove the majority of the problem.
Lastly - BUNNIES!!! I’m a fan of the lop-eared variety - they’re so darned cute. But, really, I pretty much love most “fur children” - dogs, cats, bunnies, chinchillas, guinea pigs … they’re all cute!
By USinUK
March 26, 2008 9:47 AM | Link to this
Senor Perro -
You know, you’re so right, USinUK: The US is by far the most evil empire to exist on the face of this Earth. That is, until you consider anywhere else…..
wow. so, what, like you just skipped over the entire first sentence in that paragraph … the one in which I said “yes, the US has done good in the world” … ???
criminey. the US has done good … the US has done less-than-good. we’ve had our shining moments where we have fought tyranny and genocide - and we’ve had our “selectively deaf and blind” moments to the evils in the world. we’ve poured billions of $$$ in aid around the world to save lives - and we’ve spent billions of $$$ around the world supporting dictators who brutalized their people.
it doesn’t make us sinners but it sure as shootin’ doesn’t make us saints.
By Senor Perro
March 26, 2008 10:03 AM | Link to this
Re: the folkses you see at WIC - I’m sure there are people out there like that - the question is whether it’s a small % or a majority. My money is on a small percentage
I can only go by my own personal experiences in life, both as a previously “poor” person, and as someone who lives within eyesight of a WIC facility.
My point is more along the lines of “let those without sin cast the first stone” - a lot of people who complain about benefit recipients gaming the system have no problem cheating on their taxes, padding their deductions. Just sayin’.
That may be, but I’m not one of them. My CPA has told me that he WISHES the IRS would audit me one day, because I would most likely be due a refund because I’m so conservative.
it doesn’t make us sinners but it sure as shootin’ doesn’t make us saints.
Sorry for overreacting to your statements, but it seems all I hear from the liberal camp is how horrible the US is, with nary a peep about all the good the American people have done. In regard to the dictators we have supported in the past, you also need to look at who those said dictators replaced. E.g. The only alternative to the dictators throughout South America from the 1950s-1990s were primarily communists. You’re never going to convince me that any of these guys were a better alternative. As for Bautista in Cuba—At least he allowed private ownership of land and a certain amount of freedom. The sad truth is that there is an endemic corruption among latino peoples which is tremendously hard to shake. Ditto for the Arabs. They don’t embrace democracy or equality, even when given every encouragement to do so. I don’t know the reason why, but I think that their religious upbringings has something to do with it (Catholicism and Islam).
Lastly - BUNNIES!!! I’m a fan of the lop-eared variety - they’re so darned cute. But, really, I pretty much love most “fur children” - dogs, cats, bunnies, chinchillas, guinea pigs … they’re all cute!
Despite any political differences we may have, you’re alright in my book if you are an animal lover.
By Senor Perro
March 26, 2008 10:17 AM | Link to this
One fact that a lot of people never consider about the US is that prior to WWI, we were NOT the wealthiest nation on Earth. In fact, around 1900, the richest nation by far was Argentina. The reason they didn’t continue in that role is that a small handful of families controlled more than 90% of the wealth. Because they intermarried, the wealth was never spread around, which bread tremendous resentment among the commoners. Here in the US, we had a similar situation with the Rockefellers, Vanderbilts, Carnegies, etc. controlling most of the wealth through monopolies on key industries like steel and transportation. Fortunately, our leaders had the foresight to pass anti-trust legislation, pro-union legislation, and to incorporate inheritance tax laws which helped to level the playing field to some degree.
By USinUK
March 26, 2008 10:37 AM | Link to this
Perro -
My CPA has told me that he WISHES the IRS would audit me one day, because I would most likely be due a refund because I’m so conservative
eeep. get a new CPA. no accountant I know would EVER wish for an audit, no matter how conservative you are - once the IRS decides to audit you, they’re darned well determined to find something !!! (yes, I know the guy is kidding)
but it seems all I hear from the liberal camp is how horrible the US is, with nary a peep about all the good the American people have done
and all I hear from the conserva-camp is how darned perfect and spotless the US is, conveniently glossing over the things the country has done wrong. neither side of the aisle is completely right.
as for supporting coups against communists … 1) if the US is pro-democracy, then shouldn’t we abide by the will of the people even when it isn’t convenient for our interests?? 2) if I have a choice between socialists like Allende or Mossedegh and despots like Pinochet or the Shah, I’ll take my chances with Allende and Mossedegh all. day. long.
By chuck
March 26, 2008 10:51 AM | Link to this
UsinUk,
Good gravy, chuck, read the context - we’re talking about whether whites are responsible for all the “evil” in the world. My point is as it was - that it’s the power, not the skin color, that has caused the corruption. Leadership, governance or colonialization - whatever you want to call it, it’s power - neither good nor bad, it just is. However, that power does corrupt. It always has. It always will.
Here’s the deal. Just because some 19th century powerless dude comes up with a catchy phrase, it doesn’t necessarily mean that it is true. John Steinbeck, who most would probably agree is a far superior mind to Lord Acton, said:
“Power does not corrupt. Fear corrupts… perhaps the fear of a loss of power.”
Guess what? Just because Steinbeck said it doesn’t make it true either. IN SOME CASES people who have power may become corrupt (SEE Clinton, Bill and Clinton, Hillary). IN OTHER CASES, people who have power use it honorably to further American interests in the world FOR AMERICA, NOT for themselves (SEE Reagan, Ronald AND Lincoln, Abraham among many others).
While I am often cynical, I am not so blinded by cynicism, that I see EVERY politician as entering office to see what they can get out of it.
By JokesOn
March 26, 2008 11:11 AM | Link to this
While I am often cynical, I am not so blinded by cynicism, that I see EVERY politician as entering office to see what they can get out of it.
Yet, only a couple weeks ago you claimed proof (locking doors) that people were innately bad. Now you are arguing the opposite…
Read up on the Stanford jail study for proof on power corrupting people.
By USinUK
March 26, 2008 11:16 AM | Link to this
chuck -
wow. did you hear the whistling sound as the POINT went sailing by you???
who is talking about individuals?? we’re talking about institutionalized power such as governments and colonialization, for example - they may start out benign, but as the power grows, so does the abuse of it. But, if you want to cannonize Ronnie, then go right ahead.
John Steinbeck, who most would probably agree is a far superior mind to Lord Acton …
um, really??? and exactly who would agree to that??? certainly not many historians. I mean, we all love “Of Mice and Men” and “East of Eden”, but, really … a superior mind to Lord Acton??? be careful, chuck, you could hurt yourself with stretches like that.
By Truth
March 26, 2008 11:17 AM | Link to this
USinUK
wow. so, what, like you just skipped over the entire first sentence in that paragraph … the one in which I said “yes, the US has done good in the world” … ???
Why do you think that is? You make one sentence and then follow it with yet another rant about the US. Yes conservatives do tend to look at what is good about our country. That doesn’t mean we don’t recognize the bad, but we just don’t get the pleasure of talking our own country down like liberals do.
Could it be that we really are more positive thinking people: that glass half full thing?
if I have a choice between socialists like Allende or Mossedegh and despots like Pinochet or the Shah, I’ll take my chances with Allende and Mossedegh all. day. long.
The world is a bad place with plenty of evil people and despots. So you think Iran would have been better under a nationalist Prime minister that had spawned a world wide embargo of it’s only major export. I think they needed the money from the oil.
The fact that the Shaw had to deal with radical Islam the entire time he was in power is never mentioned by any of you, and your do-good president named Carter destroyed the world’s last ability to keep them from becoming the thirteenth century murderers and thugs that they are now.
Yea, praise Carter!! He got rid of the evil Shaw and allowed freedom of religion in Iran. Damn the women that want an education. Put on that Burkka and shut up! Yea, the Shaw was the real villain. Sure he was.
As far as the world’s evils being spawned by evil White people, I’m a little tired of that. White people were not the problem in Cuba. Latinos were the problem in Cuba. Latinos that subjugated other Latinos.
You have countries in Africa that say that if you are White, no matter how many generations you have owned your land, that land is now the property or the government and if you and your children are not hacked to death by government sponsored thugs, your only option is to leave the country, and leave it now.
Evil White people feed and cloth more people around the world that is not white than anyone.
The Khaans slaughtered almost half of the European population, along with most of the Persian population. Correct me if I am wrong, but Ghengus Khan was not white.
Read about what the Japanese did to Nan King and the rest of free China during the thirties. I don’t think the Japanese are white.
Sometimes reading this blog is fun. Sometimes it makes me sick.
By Jose
March 26, 2008 11:17 AM | Link to this
Buenos dias, bloggers. For those of you not up on your Spanish, I thought you might like to know what carmelita was saying yesterday. After I mentioned that my GF is from the Dominican Republic, she immediately called her a wh-ore, This is true, she did. *and stated that every Dominican lady starts sleeping around by age 11. * No she asked if your girlfriend was 11 years old.
Then she made a broad, sweeping statement that every person of Dominican descent who has relocated to the US is either a thief or a drug addict. No she said every Dominican she has met in the US is a thief or an addict.
Of course, this is all came after her opening salvo in which she stated that white men are automatically born into a life of privilege. White men in the US are born with automatic privileges other men and women do not have. You just won’t admit it!
Such a fine lady, that carmelita. Anyone like to venture a guess as to what her political orientation is? I’ll bet dollars to donuts (or should I say pesos to tacos) that she is a Clinton supporter.
Why would you think that? I would say she sounded too simple minded to be interested in politics period.
If she offended you, then why did you flirt with her asking if she’s married and does she have kids?
Buffoon!
By USinUK
March 26, 2008 11:19 AM | Link to this
Jokes -
Read up on the Stanford jail study for proof on power corrupting people.
I read about that … one of the creepiest studies of human nature I’ve ever seen. “Lord of the Flies” had nothing on these people.
By Tooooo funny!
March 26, 2008 11:26 AM | Link to this
IN OTHER CASES, people who have power use it honorably to further American interests in the world FOR AMERICA, NOT for themselves (SEE Reagan…
HAHAHAHA! HAHAHA! HAHAHAHAHA! STOP it! Hahahahaha! ROFLMCLAO!
By USinUK
March 26, 2008 11:38 AM | Link to this
Truth -
You make one sentence and then follow it with yet another rant about the US.
1) “yet another”…?? excuse me??
2) and 1 sentence is a rant?? my, someone has thin skin.
we just don’t get the pleasure of talking our own country down like liberals do
yes. we get pleasure from it. miles and miles of pleasure. in fact, it’s right up there with a sharp stick in the eye. I can’t speak for anyone else, but it physically pains me when I see the US not living up to its ideals, whether we’re talking about extraordinary rendition and Abu Ghraib or turning a blind eye on what’s happening in Darfur. I don’t get any pleasure out if it, I yell and scream and shout about it because it saddens me to the core of my being.
As for the ShaH (not George Bernard ShaW), he tortured and killed his people, too - he was no better than the Ayatollah’s that took his place.
As far as the world’s evils being spawned by evil White people, I’m a little tired of that.
Good grief, Truth - evil has been spawned by white, brown, yellow, and very dark brown people (yes, I’m looking at you, Idi Amin). Once again (for the folks in the cheap seats) - it’s not the color of the skin that is the problem, it’s institutionalized abuse of power. All I said yesterday is that, if you look at the most powerful countries/Empires over the last 500 years, they are predominantly white, with a little brown thrown in, whether you like to acknowledge that or not.
By Truth
March 26, 2008 11:38 AM | Link to this
JokesON
I read about that. The big problem is that the kids being imprisoned were not seasoned criminals and the kids that played the guards were not trained prison guards. The third problem is that they were all kids (college students).
I understand the entire experiment was about the effects upon people with ultimate power over others. They didn’t need to go to so much trouble. This happens a lot. Bad marriages, abusive police officers, really just about any situation where a person is abused is about the abuser having the most power.
I recently saw a clip of a very large thug beating a smaller person almost to death. While that is not institutionalized power, it is the same kind of power that corrupts.
By Truth
March 26, 2008 11:41 AM | Link to this
Tooooo funny!
I agree. LOL!! What the world needs is that Berlin Wall put back up. A free Eastern Europe. LOL!! Who wants that?
By Nat Turner
March 26, 2008 11:44 AM | Link to this
Truth, are you kidding me? Look at what happened in Africa. The Europeans (whites) divided up the continent to what it is now. They put different ethnic groups against their enemies so that they could take power. That is why the Hutus and the Tutsis still fight til this day in Rwanda. Not to mention that the the Germans and Belgians slaughtered several African tribes on their way to establishing rule.
And the latinos in Cuba, if go back and read, were the majority white. They identified as white, and relished in the fact they did not have African blood.
And yes, this blog does make me sick. TOJ made several comments that made me sick (example, how the only black people in the White House were serving tea.). So join the offended crowd.
By NoBuffoonsAllowed
March 26, 2008 11:44 AM | Link to this
Jose - does that mean we should not hire Senor Perro to be our Spanish translator?
buffoon indeed.
By JokesOn
March 26, 2008 11:53 AM | Link to this
Power corrupts, yet we wait for people in power to change the wrongs of the world instead of doing it ourselves.
Truth, I know you have the whole libs versus repubs thing set in your mind, but I do like the liberal trend of questioning those in power for the reason above if no other.
You have to admit that the trend in the republican party is to be loyal and quiet, no?
(will post as I can, but slammed today)
By Senor Perro
March 26, 2008 12:09 PM | Link to this
If she offended you, then why did you flirt with her asking if she’s married and does she have kids?
Jose—I flirt with EVERY woman in case you haven’t noticed. Hence the name, Senor Perro. ; > }
Actually, I was just baiting carmelita to reveal her marital status/child status to see if perhaps she too was scamming the system.
Thanks again for the correction on my Spanish grammar. Unlike other Americans who simply bemoan our newfound bilingual status, I’m doing my best to go with the flow.
By Truth
March 26, 2008 12:10 PM | Link to this
By Nat Turner
Truth, are you kidding me? Look at what happened in Africa. The Europeans (whites) divided up the continent to what it is now. They put different ethnic groups against their enemies so that they could take power. That is why the Hutus and the Tutsis still fight til this day in Rwanda. Not to mention that the the Germans and Belgians slaughtered several African tribes on their way to establishing rule.
Oh Jesus. What a crock. Yes and we brought crack into Black neighborhoods. I just can’t figure out how we forced Black people to take the drugs. As far as Africa, if you can prove that there were no intertribal warfare before White people came to Africa, I will completely buy what you are selling. But until then, I will call a giant Bllsht on that one.
And the latinos in Cuba, if go back and read, were the majority white. They identified as white, and relished in the fact they did not have African blood.
And you knew all of them and have personal knowledge of the fact that they were White and relished the fact they had no African blood. I see. Sounds like your buying into the bllsht.
And yes, this blog does make me sick. TOJ made several comments that made me sick (example, how the only black people in the White House were serving tea.). So join the offended crowd.
If I were Black, I would be incredibly offended by a political party that subjected Black people, passed Jim Crow laws, re built the KKK with the idea of keeping good Southern White people from being dominated by Negroes and Republicans (look it up), but now try to claim the racial high road simply because they embrace race based hiring.
We are seeing what Democrats really think of Black people by the political campaign of the wife of the president who really did have an all-Black waiter staff and an all White administrative staff. Well, there was Ron Brown, but of course he died like so many others around that administration. Not that the Clintons had anything to do with that.
By Mrs. RepubLady
March 26, 2008 12:11 PM | Link to this
Jokes on is partially correct. Power corrupts, but it only corrupts Democrats. That is why Republicans are loyal and quiet. There is nothing to question, nothing to doubt, and nothing to raise a fuss about. Any corruption that takes place anywhere at any level of government is the fault of a Democrat, even if it lands on an otherwise good, Godly Republican. Democrats are Un-American in thought and deed. That’s why when we have a Democratic President, it’s patriotic to question everything he does, even in war time, but it’s UN-American do to that to a Republican President. It’s all very clear.
By Senor Perro
March 26, 2008 12:18 PM | Link to this
No she asked if your girlfriend was 11 years old.
Here are the pertinent quotes, Jose:
carmelita: Cuanto tiempo usted conoce a esta puta dominicana? Aférrese a su amigo de la carpeta!
Translation: How long have you known that wh-ore Dominicanan. Tie your friend down to the carpet!
Senor Perro: Ella estuve un virgen despues encontrarme. Eres prejuiciada?
Translation: She was a virgin before meeting me. (I inadvertently used despues instead of antes)
carmelita: Virgen? ¡Ha! ¿Ella es 10 años de viejo? Estoy apesadumbrado pero cada Domincan que resuelvo en los Estados Unidos es ladrón y adicto. No soy mexicano. Soy colombina.
Translation: A virgin? HA! Is she 10 years old? I am saddened, but every Dominican who resides in the US is a thief and an addict. I am not Mexican. I am Colombian.
SO, Jose, if you read the context more closely, she is stating that Dominicans start sleeping around by age 11, no?
By Senor Perro
March 26, 2008 12:29 PM | Link to this
Jose - does that mean we should not hire Senor Perro to be our Spanish translator?
buffoon indeed.
Out of curiosity, NoBuffoonsAllowed, don’t you ever tire of your status as a sideline sniper in life? Is that the fate of the powerless? Say what you want about me, but I’ve done a lot to improve my lot in life, all on my own. So, while yo have to eat crap from your supervisors at work every day, my biggest decision is whether to roll out of bed at 11 AM or 1 PM. You dig?
All I said yesterday is that, if you look at the most powerful countries/Empires over the last 500 years, they are predominantly white, with a little brown thrown in, whether you like to acknowledge that or not.
USinUK—Does the fact that “lighter-skinned” people have dominated the world the last 500 years prove that said people are somehow evil, or just prove they are more clever and more adept at governmental administration? The only reason Africa and the Middle East were divided up by whitey is that blacky was too stupid to determine his own fate.
By Archie
March 26, 2008 12:29 PM | Link to this
And yes, this blog does make me sick. TOJ made several comments that made me sick (example, how the only black people in the White House were serving tea.). So join the offended crowd. Hello Nat Turner, when you point that out he acts as if nothing is wrong.
USinUk, keep holding it down. You’re doing a good job.
By Truth
March 26, 2008 12:40 PM | Link to this
JokesON
When Republicans are in power, we support the people we elect. But please remember what happened during the 90s. What you are saying about the Republicans now, we were saying about the Democrats. The Clintons had a scandal d’jour and Clinton quickly became known as the Teflon President.
The bottom line (at least for me) is what my Yellow Dog Democrat grandfather said after the Nixon impeachment: we will never have another good president because the press no longer has any respect for the privacy of the office. And he really hated Nixon, but he understood that no one will want the scrutiny that will now be required to be president.
McCain is the first guy that is running that I have ever really had any respect for. Maybe that comes from the fact that since I was born, my Dad always told me how fighter pilots were so brave and they saved his life so many times in the South Pacific. My heroes were not cowboys, they were Greg Boyington, Neal Armstrong, Chuck Yeager, and yes: John McCain. All of which were shot down under enemy fire.
As you probably know, I don’t like politicians. I support Bush, but he is not my favorite person.
By USinUK
March 26, 2008 12:45 PM | Link to this
Truth -
Does the fact that “lighter-skinned” people have dominated the world the last 500 years prove that said people are somehow evil, or just prove they are more clever and more adept at governmental administration
are you deliberately obtuse or do you just have reading comprehension problems?? I have said repeatedly that the color of the skin has nothing to do with it - corruption (or “evil”, as you like to call it) is inherent in institutionalized power.
you’re becoming a broken record.
The only reason Africa and the Middle East were divided up by whitey is that blacky was too stupid to determine his own fate
daaaaaaaaaayum. you’ve just spoken volumes about your character and how you view the world.
By NoBuffoonsAllowed
March 26, 2008 12:45 PM | Link to this
Senor Perro -
this is merely from-at-work entertainment. so sideline sniping is fun.
Too many other interesting things going on to bother coming here on my days off. How about you? obviously not.
By Senor Perro
March 26, 2008 12:50 PM | Link to this
White men in the US are born with automatic privileges other men and women do not have. You just won’t admit it!
Jose—Success in life primarily depends on education. From my first days in school onward, people of “minority status”, with the exception of Asians, have been given every break possible. Those who don’t capitalize on these “minority privileges” have only themselves to blame, IMO. Is the fact that more than 80% of black children born in America are out-of-wedlock somehow whitey’s fault? I don’t have the latino OOW figure handy, but it’s not far behind.
That is why the Hutus and the Tutsis still fight til this day in Rwanda.
Nat—At what point in life should blacks in Africa be expected to take responsibility for their own actions? In case you forgot, the Hutu-Tutsi conflict was NEVER contained within the borders of Rwanda. And why is it that once the whites lost power in South Africa, the rape statistics went through the roof?
More personally, at what point in life are YOU going to take responsibility for making your own situation better??
By Nat Turner
March 26, 2008 12:56 PM | Link to this
*Look at what happened in Africa. The Europeans (whites) divided up the continent to what it is now. They put different ethnic groups against their enemies so that they could take power. That is why the Hutus and the Tutsis still fight til this day in Rwanda. Not to mention that the the Germans and Belgians slaughtered several African tribes on their way to establishing rule.
Oh Jesus. What a crock. Yes and we brought crack into Black neighborhoods. I just can’t figure out how we forced Black people to take the drugs. As far as Africa, if you can prove that there were no intertribal warfare before White people came to Africa, I will completely buy what you are selling. But until then, I will call a giant Bllsht on that one.
And the latinos in Cuba, if go back and read, were the majority white. They identified as white, and relished in the fact they did not have African blood.
And you knew all of them and have personal knowledge of the fact that they were White and relished the fact they had no African blood. I see. Sounds like your buying into the bllsht*
No, you need to look it up.
Well, there was Ron Brown, but of course he died like so many others around that administration. Not that the Clintons had anything to do with that.
I am going to have to call you out on bullsh!t.
And like a wise man once said, opinions are like a**holes, everybody has one. And luckily, this blog has one named Truth.
By McCain is your HERO????
March 26, 2008 12:58 PM | Link to this
This guy is your hero? Ever research his actual military record? Ever read about the special treatment he got because his Daddy was a big shot?
Here’s a taste: IF you’re not afraid of facts, that is… The following occurs between his appointment to flight school and divorcing his disabled wife who stood by him to marry a pretty young rich woman with political connections:
McCain, the “below par” pilot, eventually lost 5 military aircraft, the first during a training flight in 1958 when he plunged into Corpus Christi Bay while trying to land. The Navy ignored the crash and graduated McCain in 1960.
While deployed in the Mediterranean, the hard partying McCain lost a second aircraft. Timberg described the crash: “Flying too low over the Iberian Peninsula, he took out some power lines which led to a spate of newspaper stories in which he was predictably identified as the son of an admiral.”
Unscathed, McCain returned to Pensacola Station where he was promoted to flight instructor for Naval Air Station Meridian in Mississippi. The airfield at Meridian, McCain Field, was named in honor of McCain’s grandfather.
Flight instructor McCain lost a third aircraft while flying a Navy trainer solo to Philadelphia for an Army-Navy football game. Timberg wrote that McCain radioed, “I’ve got a flameout” before ejecting at one thousand feet. McCain parachuted onto a beach moments before his plane slammed into a clump of trees. The Navy dismissed the crash as “unavoidable” and assigned McCain to the aircraft carrier USS Forrestal in December 1966, which was patrolling the Mediterranean Sea and Atlantic Ocean. In Spring 1967, the Forrestal was assigned to join the Operation Rolling Thunder bombing campaign against North Vietnam.
McCain lost his fourth plane on board the Forrestal on July 29, 1967 when a rocket inadvertently slammed into his bomb laden jet. McCain escaped, but the explosions that followed KILLED 134 SAILORS. McCain was transferred from the badly damaged Forrestal to the USS Oriskany. Shortly afterwards, on Oct. 26, 1967, he was shot down and captured by the Vietnamese.
By Senor Perro
March 26, 2008 12:59 PM | Link to this
you’ve just spoken volumes about your character and how you view the world.
Thanks for the compliment. The reality is that I don’t judge anyone by their skin color, but by whether they take their own destiny in their own hands or whether they sit on the sidelines and make racist excuses for why they can’t succeed.
Too many other interesting things going on to bother coming here on my days off. How about you? obviously not.
Since all my friends/lovers/poker buddies all still work for a living, I actually do have some “down-time” every day to come by and poke fun at the idiotic Libs who like to whine, whine, whine. Fair enough?
By Truth
March 26, 2008 12:59 PM | Link to this
USinUK
are you deliberately obtuse
Now that was a hell of a good movie, The Shawshank redemption.
or do you just have reading comprehension problems?? I have said repeatedly that the color of the skin has nothing to do with it - corruption (or “evil”, as you like to call it) is inherent in institutionalized power.
Go back and re-read. That wasn’t posted by me.
By Senor Perro
March 26, 2008 1:04 PM | Link to this
Truth—are you deliberately obtuse or do you just have reading comprehension problems??
P.S. USinUK—before you accuse someone of reading comprehension problems, you might check out who actually made the comments. Isn’t that a part of reading comprehension, me luv? ; > }
By USinUK
March 26, 2008 1:09 PM | Link to this
Go back and re-read. That wasn’t posted by me.
d-oh! sorry. my apologies.
Perro -
The reality is that I don’t judge anyone by their skin color, but by whether they take their own destiny in their own hands
umm … there’s a world of difference between what you said (above) and 1) calling anyone by an ethnic/racial slur like “blacky” and 2) saying any race/ethnicity is “too stupid” to take their fate into their own hands.
it’s called being a racist or a bigot. if you want to take that as a compliment, then so be it.
By USinUK
March 26, 2008 1:12 PM | Link to this
Perro -
P.S. USinUK—before you accuse someone of reading comprehension problems, you might check out who actually made the comments. Isn’t that a part of reading comprehension, me luv?
yes, yes, yes … you can color me chagrinned …
By Truth
March 26, 2008 1:13 PM | Link to this
USinUK
Yes Abu Grabe was bad, but no one died and no one was injured. If scaring military prisoners is the worst the US does, then Hail America.
But you choose to weep and wail and gnash your teeth because we are not perfect. We will never be. but our imperfections include pouring water over someone’s face to scare them while our enemies love to cut off the heads of innocents on camera.
Pease try to have some logic in your observations.
The Shaw was not an innocent man, but for you to say that this man who did embrace REAL torture against his enemies like all the other Middle eastern countries do, and used that torture to hold down a Radical Islamic uprising is the greater of evils compared to a radical religion that tortures and executes women because they do not completely cover their bodies or express a desire to be educated is troubling at best. Do you have no power of reason?
It appears that the Shaw’s biggest sin was that he was an ally of America.
By Senor Perro
March 26, 2008 1:14 PM | Link to this
Jose and Nat—I’m waiting for your reply to my question as to when you are going to become men and start taking responsibility for improving your own lots in life without all the racist excuses. Care to answer? Obama got a lot of praise from CNN for his “courageous dialogue” regarding race, when, in fact, all he did was repeat the racist whining he was raised with.
Again, when are you going to decide to become men?
By Truth
March 26, 2008 1:19 PM | Link to this
Archie
A personal attack simply proves that is all you have. Thanks for proving my point, Pal.
By Senor Perro
March 26, 2008 1:21 PM | Link to this
umm … there’s a world of difference between what you said (above) and 1) calling anyone by an ethnic/racial slur like “blacky” and 2) saying any race/ethnicity is “too stupid” to take their fate into their own hands.
If you re-read my comments, I used BOTH terms whitey and blacky. What is good for the goose is good for the gander, no? That is one of the biggest problems in America, IMO—the racial double standard by which any white person who makes even the slightest reference to race is immediately castigated, while “people of color” are given free license to use any racial slur they want in return. Do you remember the person who was fired from their job several years ago for using the word “n****”? If you look in the dictionary, it isn’t even a racial term.
Of course, I’m expecting you to fall back on the “400 years of slavery” argument to justify the current reverse discrimination. The bottom line, once again, is that two wrongs don’t make a right, under any circumstances. If “people of color” want my respect, they are going to have to step up to the plate and denounce ALL racism.
BTW, have you listened to any rap music lately? Most of the racist language and misogynist language that I hear personally seems to come from blacky, not whitey.
By chuck
March 26, 2008 1:22 PM | Link to this
OOOPS, looks like somebody forgot to change their name back between blogs.
Verrrrry Interesting
By Truth
March 26, 2008 1:27 PM | Link to this
Sideline sniper
Yes, he lost some planes. Chuck Yeager lost even more. Yes, he survived the horrible events on the Forrestal, but is he to be blamed for that? It wasn’t a missile from his plane that set off the explosions. By your logic, there were almost 3,000 Americans that were at fault in the WTC because they went to work that day.
I notice that you stopped blabbering at the point he was captured. He was offered release because of his Father’s rank, but refused it because his fellow prisoners were not to be released.
This is going to be a great election. If this is the best you can do in attacking his military record, he will be a shoe-in.
It is also very obvious why you like to snipe from the sidelines, if this is the best you got.
By JokesOn
March 26, 2008 1:28 PM | Link to this
Truth,
What you are saying about the Republicans now, we were saying about the Democrats.
Maybe I just was not plugged in enough, but during the clinton years I really did not hear anything besides complaints regarding toking and cigars coming from the republicans. No complaining that the american peoples rights were being circumvented, No cleaning house of AttyGens, and No complaining that we were in a war gone amuck.
Who keeps getting elected to represent those racists, Archie?
I do not see the relevance. If it was 30+ years ago, I would call myself a republican, but those people/days are long gone. That goes for the democrats you speak of as well. You apply facts from 30+ years ago to the current party, but it is not accurate. Can you admit that both parties are significantly different than back then?
By USinUK
March 26, 2008 1:30 PM | Link to this
Truth -
Yes Abu Grabe was bad, but no one died and no one was injured.
evidently, you don’t want to count anally raping someone with a lightstick as “injuring” them. not to mention, taking the sons of some of those captured, stripping them in front of their fathers then driving them out into the dessert to do god-knows-what. yep, a proud moment in our history. and, in case you don’t know, people HAVE died at Guantanamo.
our imperfections aren’t “pouring water on someone’s face” - our imperfections are committing acts of torture that we called war crimes when the Japanese did them. yeah, our enemies may cut off the hands of their captives, but don’t we want to have the bar just a LITTLE higher???
as far as the ShaH vs. the Ayatollahs … call me crazy, but I think torturing people to death is bad, no matter what the reason (be it because they are political opponents or because they want to read a little Mark Twain). you may call that faulty logic … to me, it’s just plain old morality.
the ShaH’s biggest sin wasn’t that he was our ally - IMHO - it was our sin that he was ours.
By Senor Perro
March 26, 2008 1:32 PM | Link to this
OOOPS, looks like somebody forgot to change their name back between blogs.
You know, chuck, you’re about as bright as lozen in your ability to know who is blogging what.
I think I ultimately agree with JokesOn that you’re nothing but a pathetic liar in regards to your claimed intellectual prowess and actual experience in life. I still remember when I mentioned that I owned rental property, you immediately claimed to have owned several rental houses yourself. Yeah, right. If you have a 149 IQ, then I’m Barack Obama. You don’t even have the slightest clue even how to calculate simple probabilities, or even how to analyze simple geological facts. You almost never speak from your own mind, but instead try to let crackpot websites do your talking for you.
Get back to me when you grow a set of balls, will you?
By Copyleft
March 26, 2008 1:38 PM | Link to this
“We’re not as bad as Hitler” has never been a valid excuse for wrong behavior, Truth. That’s the sort of “moral relativism” that conservatives are supposed to despise, remember?
By USinUK
March 26, 2008 1:39 PM | Link to this
Perro -
Most of the racist language and misogynist language that I hear personally seems to come from blacky, not whitey.
and if rappers jumped off a bridge … ??? ;-)
I think racial slurs used by ANYone (black, white or “other”) is wrong. It is demeaning and, frankly, undermines the speaker, making them look like an uneducated bigot. Part of the “content of one’s character” is how one treats other people - using demeaning language like racial or ethnic slurs pretty much tells me that I shouldn’t respect the speaker since he has no respect for others.
btw - I was living in DC (where it happened) when the city councilman lost his job for using the word n**** - then was rehired when they found out what the word meant - then lost it again because he should have realized that it sounded bad. talk about a case of PC stupidity run amok!!!
By Mrs. RepubLady
March 26, 2008 1:43 PM | Link to this
Yes, McCain is a hero, as were his forefathers. The progeny of heroes are also heroes. Good genes. Good breeding. Good Republicans. All Republicans are heroes. Thank you, Truth, for telling the truth. Those sideline snipers are just jealous because they have to choose between an unpatriotic African and a shrew who’s only accomplishment is forgiving her filandering husband in order to write a book and make money out of it. Democrats are jealous and spiteful. They devower each other with race and gender, while good true Americans already know what we need to know, which is that we don’t need to know anything more that what Bush, Cheney, and John McCain decide we need to know. This will be a teriffic election year indeed.
By lizbeth
March 26, 2008 1:45 PM | Link to this
http://buyhomefree.com/
By No BuffoonsAllowed
March 26, 2008 1:46 PM | Link to this
Senor Perro -
You mean you are posting here for free? Glad I am getting paid good money to post here. You gotta love a job that allows you to be online 80-90 percent of your time. They have tracking software, they know what I do all day. Bet you never had a job like that.
By USinUK
March 26, 2008 1:49 PM | Link to this
copyleft -
WORD!
By Senor Perro
March 26, 2008 1:49 PM | Link to this
USinUK—You are free to believe what you want about me. My wish for America, and the world, is that we can truly move beyond race one day and start judging people by the content of their character, the same goal that I believe you share. Our biggest difference, IMO, is that you and some of your liberal sisters and brothers can’t see the fact that two wrongs NEVER make a right. “Affirmative action” is nothing more than “reverse discrimination”, period, and will never lead us to the goal stated above. If you need confirmation of that, look no further than the city government here in Atlanta, in which the white “good ol’ boys” have been replaced by the black “good ol’ boys” like Bill Campbell, and now, Shirley Franklin. Go ahead and try to get a city contract if you’re a white person, and let me know how far you get. The bottom line is that the blacks I see in power do not have racial equality as a goal. Their goal is payback.
By Truth
March 26, 2008 1:53 PM | Link to this
JokesOn
Maybe I just was not plugged in enough, but during the clinton years I really did not hear anything besides complaints regarding toking and cigars coming from the republicans.
I know. It was hard to find the real problems. While the media was laughing at the Republicans for making a big deal about the president having sex with an underling in the oval office, Clinton had allowed the sale of military secrets to the ChiComs who later passed those secrets on to N. Korea and now the world. They all have the big-boy intercontinental missiles now. He had also decided that his focus groups didn’t like that some of our overseas agents were not good people so he had also stopped all on-the-ground intell, both devastating decisions. The list of his bad decisions go on and on.
No complaining that the american peoples rights were being circumvented,
Nope. There wasn’t. We also hadn’t had 9-11. But the reality of it is that the policies that spurred the hysteria about “american peoples rights were being circumvented” were the same policies we had followed since FDR. But thanks to the NYTimes and it’s supporters, we no longer have the ability to see what our enemies are doing. We will find out soon enough.
No cleaning house of AttyGens, and No complaining that we were in a war gone amuck.
Oh no. Why get rid of an Attorney General that was blocking every investigation that was launched against Clinton and his incompetent administration? And any war that is used as a political tool by the very same people that once supported the war will always go amuck.
I do not see the relevance. If it was 30+ years ago, I would call myself a republican, but those people/days are long gone.
No. Boston is still the most racially divided city in the Country. Not Birmingham, Not Selma and certainly not Atlanta. And need I point out that the person that is considered the Conscience of the Democratic Party, Robert Byrd is a member of the KKK.
He claims he is not, but the KKK is like a roach motel. You can check in, but you can never check out.
By Senor Perro
March 26, 2008 1:54 PM | Link to this
You mean you are posting here for free? Glad I am getting paid good money to post here. You gotta love a job that allows you to be online 80-90 percent of your time. They have tracking software, they know what I do all day. Bet you never had a job like that.
You’re absolutely right, NoBuffoonsAllowed, I never had a job like yours. I held jobs in which I was required to actually accomplish things. Maybe that’s why I retired a few years ago while you’re still captive to a desk and computer.
By JokesOn
March 26, 2008 1:54 PM | Link to this
I think racial slurs used by ANYone (black, white or “other”) is wrong.
My 2 cents: The more power someone has, the more we keep our eye on them because power does corrupt. Same goes for using slurs.
Slurs are used to illustrate that the person using it has power over the one being called such. That is why a minority calling a white person honkey, or anything else really, is not taken seriously. If you are a person in a place of power (social or economic) you have a greater burden of not using them; hence why Dog (bounty hunter) was forgiven so easily by so many black people, he is acknowledged as more of an inner city person controlled by “the man” as much as your average black person and the DC city councilman not being forgiven.
By Truth
March 26, 2008 2:00 PM | Link to this
Copyleft
“We’re not as bad as Hitler” has never been a valid excuse for wrong behavior, Truth. That’s the sort of “moral relativism” that conservatives are supposed to despise, remember?
What a great speech. Means nothing when you look at the actual facts, but a really great speech. You should have gone on about how evil we are for scaring military prisoners.
Have you ever watched “COPS”, copyleft. Have you ever seen them sic trained attack dogs on 17 year olds? It seems the answer to all of the torture issues is to just put the military prisoners in a stolen car and let them run from the cops for a few minutes. No one holds back those attack dogs. But again: Great speech.
By Senor Perro
March 26, 2008 2:01 PM | Link to this
Those sideline snipers are just jealous because they have to choose between an unpatriotic African and a shrew who’s only accomplishment is forgiving her filandering husband in order to write a book and make money out of it.
You have to admit, RepubLady, that the Democrats have been about as dumb as dirt the past 12 years in their inability to find a viable candidate to run for President. The most viable candidate, Joe Lieberman, was run out of the party lock, stock, and barrel, while “Screamin’ John Dean” was elected DNC party chairman. Real bright bunch of folks running the show over at the DNC.
Out of curiosity, what say you about the fact that the Clintons won’t release their tax returns since Bill left office, nor will even release the list of donors to his Presidential library. Just what are they hiding?
By Truth
March 26, 2008 2:07 PM | Link to this
jokesOn
That is why a minority calling a white person honkey, or anything else really, is not taken seriously.
I have heard this logic before. It would make sense if the poor white trash that lives in the trailer court and has a confederate flag in his window had more power than the administrators for most major US cities, but he doesn’t
Racism is racism and no matter what excuses are made, there is no excuse for it.
By Senor Perro
March 26, 2008 2:08 PM | Link to this
Slurs are used to illustrate that the person using it has power over the one being called such. That is why a minority calling a white person honkey, or anything else really, is not taken seriously. If you are a person in a place of power (social or economic) you have a greater burden of not using them; hence why Dog (bounty hunter) was forgiven so easily by so many black people, he is acknowledged as more of an inner city person controlled by “the man” as much as your average black person and the DC city councilman not being forgiven.
JokesOn, I hear you that slurs used by those in power should be heeded more than slurs made by those not in power. However, in neither case does it make the slur acceptable. Out of curiosity, what is your opinion of Bill Campbell, who while mayor of Atlanta, openly stated that he was there to serve “his people”, and not white citizens?? Do you think a white politician could have gotten away with that??
I’m still waiting to hear back from Jose and Nat.
By NoBuffoonsAllowed
March 26, 2008 2:08 PM | Link to this
You’re absolutely right, NoBuffoonsAllowed, I never had a job like yours. I held jobs in which I was required to actually accomplish things. Maybe that’s why I retired a few years ago while you’re still captive to a desk and computer.
and you with no life, falling for the greedy Nigerian scams. what a trade-off.
By Senor Perro
March 26, 2008 2:11 PM | Link to this
OOps—that should read “Screaming Howard Dean”. ; > }
By Truth
March 26, 2008 2:15 PM | Link to this
Senor Perro
You have to admit, RepubLady, that the Democrats have been about as dumb as dirt the past 12 years in their inability to find a viable candidate to run for President.
Truer words were never said. I don’t think they have wanted the White House. That is why the real efforts has been to take back Congress. Gore was an idiot and Kerry was a joke. Obama has been a big surprise to them and has spoiled the party.
Limbaugh’s right. Give the democrats enough rope and, OK that’s not the best saying, but you get my point.
By Senor Perro
March 26, 2008 2:16 PM | Link to this
and you with no life, falling for the greedy Nigerian scams. what a trade-off.
Oh well, I guess you caught me, my game is up.
Is that really your best shot, loser?
By Senor Perro
March 26, 2008 2:19 PM | Link to this
Well, I guess I better slink off. The mighty NoBuffoonsAllowed has vanquished me with his/her sideline sniping. ; > {
By Truth
March 26, 2008 2:19 PM | Link to this
Senor Perro
If you want this place to get really quiet, post a few good arguments and wait on a response.
By Nat Turner
March 26, 2008 2:42 PM | Link to this
Jose and Nat—I’m waiting for your reply to my question as to when you are going to become men and start taking responsibility for improving your own lots in life without all the racist excuses. Care to answer?
With all of this unnecessary taunting, I feel like I am on the playground.
And to answer your question, I continue in the footsteps of my parents and grandparents and went to college. I finished up undergrad, and now am working on Grad school.
And if you actually took the time to do some research instead of looking at the WIC facility and being judgmental, maybe you would realize that it has something to do with the resources that go to that neighborhood school.
Let’s compare a school in Alpharetta with a school in College Park. If you are a teacher with a master’s, doctorate, and Nationally Certified, based off of only knowing where the school is located, which one would you choose to go to?
By Snidely Buttright
March 26, 2008 2:51 PM | Link to this
Yes Abu Grabe was bad, but no one died -
So Manadel al-Jamadi is still alive!? And the other seven, too?!! It’s a freakin’ Easter miracle!!!
- and no one was injured.
so Taguba was a stinkin’ liar when he documented the raping and sodomizing of prisoners, male and female? And pouring phosphurous an someone doesn’t injure them? And beating handcuffed prisoners with broomsticks and batons doesn’t hurt ‘em? And a “Palistinian Hanging” is one of the Kama Sutra positions?
Nobody died and nobody was injured? Do you choose to lie or are you just blinded by ideology?
Have you ever watched “COPS”, copyleft. Have you ever seen them sic trained attack dogs on 17 year olds?
You mean the handcuffed-and-shackled, naked 17-year-olds who’ve already been beaten to a pulp by their jailors? You seem to not comprehend the difference between using force to subdue and capture and using force on the helpless, just because you can.
Yeah, we don’t chop peoples heads off, we just rape ‘em, beat ‘em, and make use of the same “enhanced interrogation techniques” used by the Gestapo and the Khmer Rouge.
By Truth
March 26, 2008 2:59 PM | Link to this
Nat Turner
Bravo. For once we agree. The problem is the funding of individual schools. This is because the local tax rate is the deciding factor for Federal matching funds. My kids went to school in Sandy Springs where the computer lab was replaced every year. I have seen schools in South Georgia that had one computer in their lab and it was running windows ‘95 and this was in 2005.
This is because the fed uses that tax information to determine the RATIO of money that is given, i.e. when the Fed sees that the average property taxes in Sandy Springs is (I’m guessing) ten times higher than the tax rate in South georgia, they determine that the matching funds for the rich kid’s schools are say 50 times higher. It is nuts.
I wish I could say that this was all because of the fact that democrats ran our educational system for 40 years from 1952 until 1992, but I can’t. I have looked and looked for the info and have never found when these laws were passed and who passed them. but I do know that neither party has ever tried to get them revoked.
Fix this problem and in 12 years, we will have a much better country.
By Senor Perro
March 26, 2008 3:03 PM | Link to this
With all of this unnecessary taunting, I feel like I am on the playground.
Welcome to the playground!
And to answer your question, I continue in the footsteps of my parents and grandparents and went to college. I finished up undergrad, and now am working on Grad school.
I’m the first person in my family to go to college and receive a degree.
And if you actually took the time to do some research instead of looking at the WIC facility and being judgmental, maybe you would realize that it has something to do with the resources that go to that neighborhood school.
Well, I had no choice as to which high school I attended, and ended up going to one of the most academically deficient High Schools in NJ, yet still was able to win an academic scholarship to the #1 engineering college in the nation. BTW, I live in the neighborhood with the WIC facility. It is my neighbors who are scamming the government.
Let’s compare a school in Alpharetta with a school in College Park. If you are a teacher with a master’s, doctorate, and Nationally Certified, based off of only knowing where the school is located, which one would you choose to go to?
I hear you, Nat. In a perfect world, all schools would have equal resources. However, when you look at what has happened to the Clayton County school system, and the loss of accreditation following the transfer of power from white to black, I think your argument falls apart.
From my heart, Nat, as a white man it is in my best interests for all people to succeed in this country, regardless of race. In any two-tiered society, the “Haves” always have to fear the “Have-Nots”.
Congratulations on your successes in life. I hope that you ae able to look beyond race one day and realize that it’s a “people thing”, and not a “skin thing”. BTW, I spent the early part of my career working in the worst neighborhoods of Atlanta in which I was the only whitey for miles around. My GF’s skin is much darker than most African-Americans’ skin. Do you still think I’m a racist?
By Senor Perro
March 26, 2008 3:11 PM | Link to this
Drop by any time, chuck, you F-ing P***. It’s pieces of sh-it like you that cause racial hatred with your lily white Southern Baptist churches and smug non-Biblical pronouncements regarding women and gay people.
You’re not a man enough to take me on, here on the blog or in person. Have I made myself clear?
By USinUK
March 26, 2008 3:12 PM | Link to this
Truth -
Racism is racism and no matter what excuses are made, there is no excuse for it.
amen, my friend, amen.
By Truth
March 26, 2008 3:12 PM | Link to this
Snidely Buttright
You are right. I probably should have paid more sttention, but I didn’t. I’m probably a bad person because I could never be a military interrogator.
Say I’m the interrogator. Say there are four prisoners that were captured on a battlefield that was shooting at my fellow soldiers. Say I know that these guys have information that would save the lives of my fellow soldiers.
First, I would shoot two of them, point blank. Then I would ask the third a question. If he refused, I would kill him. Now we are ready for the interrogation.
That’s why I am not a military interrogator. but neither are you. The difference between us is that I know I couldn’t do their job, so I leave that job up to them.
To set on our comfortable asses and insist that strict rules and laws are to be followed by people whom we have no idea what they face is idiocy.
I say let them do their jobs of saving the lives of their fellow soldiers and let the self righteous that seem to want to constantly preach about the rights of the people who want to kill us, shut the hell up.
But that’s just me.
By USinUK
March 26, 2008 3:19 PM | Link to this
Perro …
maybe if you stopped using terms like “blacky” and stopped going on about how dark your girlfriend is (not to mention, using cringe-inducing expressions like “once you go black”), maybe, just maybe, people wouldn’t think you’re a racist.
By Truth
March 26, 2008 3:20 PM | Link to this
UsinUk
thanks.
So you don’t like The Shawshank Redemption?
By JokesOn
March 26, 2008 3:21 PM | Link to this
Out of curiosity, what is your opinion of Bill Campbell, who while mayor of Atlanta, openly stated that he was there to serve “his people”, and not white citizens?Do you think a white politician could have gotten away with that?
Ever watch the home videos of GWB campaigning at a evangelical church? “I am one of you and represent you good christians….” and not a black person in the house most often…;/
Racism is racism and no matter what excuses are made, there is no excuse for it.
Are you saying that there is no difference depending on who the person is using it and in what context?
But the reality of it is that the policies that spurred the hysteria about “american peoples rights were being circumvented” were the same policies we had followed since FDR.
Not accurate. See the patriot act et al. If you are going to dismiss the removal of privacy rights (wire tapping) and basic rights to a lawyer, you and I should stick to light talk. Those are major issues. You can say that you do not mind loosing those rights, but do not act as though they never existed.
And any war that is used as a political tool by the very same people that once supported the war will always go amuck.
Are you saying it has nothing to do with planning? Even generals state that there were obvious mistakes and steps skipped in the process that should have happened that the administration will refuse to this day.
By Truth
March 26, 2008 3:27 PM | Link to this
USinUK
I have been to the Dominican Republic. The women there are so sexy that I don’t remember what color their skin was.
It is an incredible place with 14,000 foot mountains in the middle of the island. That is twice the height of the highest of the Smokies.
I spent an afternoon trying to find La Isabella, Columbus’s original settlement. I almost destroyed a rental car because no one told me that there was a four lane highway that went there. I also found out how little Spanish i really knew.
The beaches sort of suck, but the rest of the country is unreal.
By Truth
March 26, 2008 3:44 PM | Link to this
By JokesOn
Ever watch the home videos of GWB campaigning at a evangelical church? “I am one of you and represent you good christians….” and not a black person in the house most often…;/
I really haven’t ever seen that. Can you point me to a site?
Are you saying that there is no difference depending on who the person is using it and in what context?
No there isn’t. It is all damaging to someone. And there are a lot of ways bigotry hurts us all other than race. I never got the race thing. I know I am English and Scottish and Seminole. What does that mean? Seminole were Creeks that lived in the swamps who tended to protect run away-slaves so they interbred and the already dark creeks became darker, so am I black enough? No, because there is not enough of a ratio of my African heritage to darken my skin. But most experts say that most people spawned from Africa so … what then?
I say this with the utmost sincerity: Why can’t we all just get along?
Not accurate. See the patriot act et al.
The patriot act was an attempt to use the information that we had been gathering for generations in a court of law. Remember the movie called “Blue Thunder”. It was released in the early 1980s. The premise of the movie was that every eavesdropping gadget in the helicopter was available even back then. You think they had that technology and they always got warrants to crank that stuff up? And if that was what the police had, imagine what the military had. Imagine what they have, now.
I don’t like the Patriot Act because it drug out our secrets and our enemies have loved it. It also gave anyone with a vendetta against this administration the ability to talk about circumventing the rights of our citizens. Again, I want them to do their jobs.
Are you saying it has nothing to do with planning? Even generals state that there were obvious mistakes and steps skipped in the process that should have happened that the administration will refuse to this day.
There has been many problems, but support from the very same people that sent our soldiers into harm’s way would have helped the situation tremendously.
By JokesOn
March 26, 2008 3:50 PM | Link to this
Was this really called for? Chuck may have his problems, and that includes his views on gays, but this is “wayyyy harsh, Tai.”
Would you like your address posted on here?
I actually tried to track Chuck to the school he is a teacher at and found that he is not actually a teacher (the last nail to prove he is a liar), but I still did not, and would not, post his job or address.
By Senor Perro
March 26, 2008 3:52 PM | Link to this
Was this really called for? Chuck may have his problems, and that includes his views on gays, but this is “wayyyy harsh, Tai.”
Well, Scalia, you be the judge of that. Because chuck can’t fight his own battles, his wish is that someone will try to do the job for him. The church which he is a member of has a loooooong history of open discrimination against people like yourself.
If you noticed, I challenged Nat earlier today, and he proved himself a man by stepping up to the plate and expressing his views in a clear, honest manner. try to get chuck to do that, and he keeps falling back on some pseudo-religious mumbo-jumbo about how he doesn’t actually hate anyone. If chuck is a Christian, as he claims, then I’m Barack Obama.
By Truth
March 26, 2008 4:03 PM | Link to this
Well, Scalia, you be the judge of that.
Why do I find that so funny?
By Truth
March 26, 2008 4:07 PM | Link to this
JokesOn
I just spent a little time trying to find what you said Bush had said in church. I typed in the statement and did a search. Nothing.
I typed in “Bush in Church” and actually got some really uplifting things that complimented Bush, but again, nothing like the racist statement you had posted.
Did you actually see this or did you only hear about it?
By JokesOn
March 26, 2008 4:08 PM | Link to this
I really haven’t ever seen that. Can you point me to a site?
Will do my best to get the youtube url of one of the videos and post it, but that needs to be done away from work.
The patriot act was an attempt to use the information that we had been gathering for generations in a court of law.
Rephrase please. It seems as thought you are saying that administrations used to go through a court and created the PAct to circumvent that, which is accurate and the problem.
There has been many problems, but support from the very same people that sent our soldiers into harm’s way would have helped the situation tremendously.
That is one very good reason not to go to war under false pretenses like “we have a smoking gun, trust me.” (quote from GWB and Rumsfeld) You will loose your support. Plus, it is the very reason we tell the “boy who cried wolf story.”
By Copyleft
March 26, 2008 4:09 PM | Link to this
“To set on our comfortable asses and insist that strict rules and laws are to be followed by people whom we have no idea what they face is idiocy.”
No, it’s a society of LAWS. Remember when we had one of those? When people with more power (i.e., guns and bombs and tanks) were held to a higher standard than the everyday citizen in exchange for that power? There’s a catchy name for that… CIVILIZATION.
“I say let them do their jobs of saving the lives of their fellow soldiers and let the self righteous that seem to want to constantly preach about the rights of the people who want to kill us, shut the hell up.”
Ahh yes, the old “shut up and don’t ask questions, they’re SOLDIERS!” argument. Brilliant stuff. Unfortunately, we’re not the mindless drones of a military empire; we’re a constitutional republic, and the word “accountability” has not yet been outlawed.
“But that’s just me.”
Yes. It is. The rest of us are Americans. I have no idea what YOU are, but I’ll bet some folks here could offer a few suggestions….
By Senor Perro
March 26, 2008 4:10 PM | Link to this
Why do I find that so funny?
Glad you caught that one, Truth. ; > }
Out of curiosity, now that you’ve seen what chuck is really made of, what is your opinion of him now? Like I keep trying to tell you, there’s a big difference between a conservative and a fascist.
Maybe we could have a contest to see what chuck’s real job is. I’m guessing custodian. Or is that an insult to custodians?
By Copyleft
March 26, 2008 4:13 PM | Link to this
You seem to have a very flexible definition of “doing their jobs” when it comes to soldiers and spies, Truth. In your interpretation, “doing their jobs” means doing whatever they want if it makes you feel safer, no matter how many laws it breaks or how many rights and treaties are violated. That’s not just cowardly, it’s un-American.
I’m glad there have been saner, cooler heads running things in Washington for much of our history (and soon will be again, after November’s elections).
By Truth
March 26, 2008 4:18 PM | Link to this
copyleft
Yes. It is. The rest of us are Americans. I have no idea what YOU are, but I’ll bet some folks here could offer a few suggestions….
LOL There you go again.. Civility just isn’t in you is it, pal?
I told you the truth about the way I feel. I never really understood the “War” thing. Like I said the other day, 10,000 men died just a few blocks from my house trying to take a small piece of land that is now a Jiffy Lube.
Give a kid a deadly weapon, show him how to kill, put him in the battlefield, point him at some other scared sh*tless kid and tell him to kill that kid. But that is no problem for you. But pouring water on some guys face that can save lives and you have a fit.
No. I’m an American. I’m just a truthful American.
By USinUK
March 26, 2008 4:19 PM | Link to this
Truth -
So you don’t like The Shawshank Redemption?
no, I don’t like Shawshank … I love it. It is one of a handful of movies that can make me cry at the end every. single. time. (“It’s a Wonderful Life” does it to me, too … yep, I’m a big old marshmellow)
I think I must have missed something about the Dominican Republic, though - I’m sure the people are lovely and the rum is yummy … ???
By Senor Perro
March 26, 2008 4:19 PM | Link to this
No, it’s a society of LAWS. Remember when we had one of those? When people with more power (i.e., guns and bombs and tanks) were held to a higher standard than the everyday citizen in exchange for that power? There’s a catchy name for that… CIVILIZATION.
Exactly when did those glory days exist, CopyLeft? During the Clinton years?? Puh-lease. Or perhaps during the 2000 election when Gore tried to turn the electoral process upside down after he lost fair and square?
I’ve studied a lot of history, and I know of NO time in human history when those in power didn’t ride roughshod over those who lacked power. The biggest difference between yesteryear and today is the availability of information to the common man via the internet. Hopefully the “light of day” will lead us to a truly civilized society one day.
So you know, I don’t support The Patriot Act in any way, form, or fashion. I believe it will taint the Bush legacy for all time, regardless of any other good he has done.
By Senor Perro
March 26, 2008 4:26 PM | Link to this
That is one very good reason not to go to war under false pretenses like “we have a smoking gun, trust me.” (quote from GWB and Rumsfeld) You will loose your support. Plus, it is the very reason we tell the “boy who cried wolf story.”
You are right on the money about that, JokesOn. However, to be fair, it wasn’t just Bush and the Repugs who thought Hussein had dangerous weapons along with the willingness to use them on his neighbors and own citizens. Almost every Demorat, including Hillary, voted to go to war back in 2002.
In hindsight, the lack of post-war planning has come back to bite us in the butt, for sure. Wouldn’t you think that the peace-loving Sunni and Shia Muslims could find a way to get along?
By Truth
March 26, 2008 4:26 PM | Link to this
Senor Perro
Chuck is abrasive and he, at times is almost as self righteous as the same people who are now preaching at me for telling the truth about how I feel about military interrogations. But I don’t care what he does. I have had some really crappy jobs before I found what I liked. Because of what I do, I could tell you a hundred stories that you wouldn’t believe. An example: did you now that I have actually had the stick of an F-15B eagle while it was going almost the speed of sound? That’s really the truth, but who is going to believe that?
Take what he says a post at a time.
Why can’t we all just get along?
By JokesOn
March 26, 2008 4:27 PM | Link to this
It is one of a handful of movies that can make me cry at the end every. single. time.
Cheesy confession here: One of the movies that makes me watery every time is the ending of Scrooged.
By Senor Perro
March 26, 2008 4:29 PM | Link to this
no, I don’t like Shawshank … I love it. It is one of a handful of movies that can make me cry at the end every. single. time. (“It’s a Wonderful Life” does it to me, too … yep, I’m a big old marshmellow)
Would you like me better to know that I’ve cried many times while watching the movie “Ghost”, USinUK. Ditto for Jesus Christ Superstar and a host of other dramatic movies??
Can I join the Marshmallow Club with you?
Of course, when challenged by loonies like chuck, I keep my gun handy.
By Truth
March 26, 2008 4:30 PM | Link to this
UsinUK
Well, we shouldn’t ever go to a movie together. Two blubbering idiots. That scene where they are reunited on the Mexican beach gets me every time. I don’t cry often, but some scenes really get me. That is one of them.
What are you doing still at work?
By JokesOn
March 26, 2008 4:37 PM | Link to this
Almost every Demorat, including Hillary, voted to go to war back in 2002.
Truth and Dog,
Why is it that you can so easily dismiss the fact that GWB and a few top people HAD the info they promised was a “smoking gun” and the people in congress did not? Congress, as well as myself, trusted this was accurate info they were promising.
By Senor Perro
March 26, 2008 4:37 PM | Link to this
Chuck is abrasive and he, at times is almost as self righteous as the same people who are now preaching at me for telling the truth about how I feel about military interrogations. But I don’t care what he does.
Do you not think there is a difference between slinging words around on a blog and publishing someone’s home address?? Of course, in chuck’s world, God is on “his side”, so that he can rationalize any evil HE does, including discriminating against minorities, women and gays in real life.
Is there any difference to you, Truth?
By USinUK
March 26, 2008 4:43 PM | Link to this
Jokes - Cheesy confession here: One of the movies that makes me watery every time is the ending of Scrooged.
awww … yep, the “if you like that feeling” speech is a good’un!!
Truth - That scene where they are reunited on the Mexican beach gets me every time. I don’t cry often, but some scenes really get me
STOP!!! I’m gonna get all choked up!!
btw … a small but perfectly formed movie that will get you all verklempt at the end: In America. I was all sniffly at the end of that one, too.
Not at work - have had my din and am kickin it at home - waiting for my show at 9 :-)
By Senor Perro
March 26, 2008 4:45 PM | Link to this
Quick movie suggestion for the blubberers on board this afternoon: A Christmas Without Snow, starring Michael Learned (from the Waltons) and John Houseman (the Paper Chase). Though it’s a Christmas movie, it’s great to watch anytime. The highlight is when Houseman gives a speech on the meaning of the word “amateur”. From the Latin, it means someone who does something purely for the love of it, and not for money. Chokes me up every time.
By USinUK
March 26, 2008 4:45 PM | Link to this
Perro -
Can I join the Marshmallow Club with you?
yes, you can join the Peeps club, if you like … just watch the slurs!
(and bring your own Kleenex)
By Senor Perro
March 26, 2008 4:49 PM | Link to this
Why is it that you can so easily dismiss the fact that GWB and a few top people HAD the info they promised was a “smoking gun” and the people in congress did not? Congress, as well as myself, trusted this was accurate info they were promising.
My understanding, JokesOn, is that Congress and the White House had the same info. I do recall Rumsfeld intimating that there was more to come, but no new info ever surfaced other than the evidence that chemical weapons factories were found that weren’t in the initial reports. Correct me if I’m wrong.
By Truth
March 26, 2008 4:54 PM | Link to this
JokesOn
Come on, man. Two points:
According to everything I have ever read, the Security Council had the same intel as Bush. John Kerry and several other Democrats were on that council.
If they didn’t have the intel, why did they trust the president they had made out to be the most evil and dumb president in our history.
You can’t have it both ways. Is he evil and dumb or not? And if he is, how dumb are the people he convinced to go to war?
By Senor Perro
March 26, 2008 4:56 PM | Link to this
just watch the slurs!
Ok, but just for you!
Now you know why I need a strong woman in my life. When you have the kind of anger level I have sometimes, you need The Immovable Wall. (i.e. the wall of love).
You’re a beautiful person, USinUK.
By JokesOn
March 26, 2008 4:56 PM | Link to this
My understanding, JokesOn, is that Congress and the White House had the same info. I do recall Rumsfeld intimating that there was more to come, but no new info ever surfaced other than the evidence that chemical weapons factories were found that weren’t in the initial reports. Correct me if I’m wrong.
My understanding is that classified info from the cia, et al, is never accessible to congress unless it is declassified. I am pretty sure I am correct.
By USinUK
March 26, 2008 4:57 PM | Link to this
Perro -
My understanding, JokesOn, is that Congress and the White House had the same info.
Nope - the WH, through the Ntl Security Council and the National Security Agency has access to LOADS more information, data, and reports than Congress has. Additionally, the WH also admitted that they had access to reports that negated the assertion that Iraq had WMDs, but they decided to ignore those reports.
By Truth
March 26, 2008 5:00 PM | Link to this
USinUk
The other night I was at a friends house who was watching Blazing Saddles. I loooooved Matilyn Cohn. When she sang I’m tired, we were in the floor. Yes, it was partially the wine and other things, but that is very funny. I also loved her song in History of the World when she was picking her mate for the evening. (Yes, no, no, no, no yes, yes, no.)
By USinUK
March 26, 2008 5:03 PM | Link to this
Perro -
You’re a beautiful person, USinUK.
I love you, man!!! ;-)
By JokesOn
March 26, 2008 5:07 PM | Link to this
According to everything I have ever read, the Security Council had the same intel as Bush. John Kerry and several other Democrats were on that council. Not from what i have read. I will check to see if my info is good or not.
If they didn’t have the intel, why did they trust the president they had made out to be the most evil and dumb president in our history.
It was right after 9-11 and he was newly elected. The clamor of how dumb he is did not begin yet.
You can’t have it both ways. Is he evil and dumb or not? And if he is, how dumb are the people he convinced to go to war? See previous statement. Only after this and other flubs (including “i am the decider” type errs) did it become mainstream to think he is an idiot. That is how it played out for me and the groups I hang with. Many of us never liked him a lot, but also gave him our support until his performance dipped too low.
By Truth
March 26, 2008 5:19 PM | Link to this
USinUK JokesON
I just haven’t ever seen proof that Bush had more intell. And neither of you addressed the evil and dumb thing.
A modern movie I was really impressed with was The Pursuit of Happiness. wow. There are scenes in that flick that tear me up. It is a great story about a man who figured it out. It is all about happiness. Will Smith is a hell of an actor and I didn’t even know that the kid was really his son.
I love movies that inspire me and that movie would inspire anybody.
Everyone have a great night. I am slammed from now for weeks so, as much as I will be missed, (sarcasm) I will not be here much for a few weeks.
Buenos Aires and hoya en la taco.
By sweeta-dl
March 27, 2008 2:53 AM | Link to this
Sorry, but what is kimerikas?
Jane.
By sweeta-lw
March 27, 2008 4:18 AM | Link to this
Sorry, but what is kimerikas?
Jane.
By sweeta-jp
March 27, 2008 4:29 AM | Link to this
Sorry, but what is kimerikas?
Jane.
By sweeta-jp
March 27, 2008 4:29 AM | Link to this
Sorry, but what is kimerikas?
Jane.
By sweeta-do
March 27, 2008 5:58 AM | Link to this
Sorry, but what is kimerikas?
Jane.
By sweeta-do
March 27, 2008 5:59 AM | Link to this
Sorry, but what is kimerikas?
Jane.
By sweeta-do
March 27, 2008 5:59 AM | Link to this
Sorry, but what is kimerikas?
Jane.
By chuck
March 27, 2008 8:05 AM | Link to this
Sorry to burst your bubble dude, but the 1:22 and 2:55 posts were not me. My last post yesterday was at 10:51. Somebody is messing with your head.
By USinUK
March 27, 2008 8:24 AM | Link to this
Good morning, Truth -
On the off-chance you might be able to swing by …
And neither of you addressed the evil and dumb thing.
well, Jokes did (above) - I checked out last night to see my show, so I missed it your original question, so pardon the delay.
If they didn’t have the intel, why did they trust the president they had made out to be the most evil and dumb president in our history
It’s not like they had no intel, they just had cherry-picked intel - and, as Jokes said, the truth only started coming out after the invasion, when we didn’t find the mobile labs, the WMDs or any of the other boogiemen W threatened us with.
Also, if you’ll remember, back in 2002/2003, the fastest way to be demonized was to question the President (just ask Max Cleland). Anyone who even raised their hand to say “now, hangonaminnit” was immediately called a sympathizer, an appeaser or a traitor for not blindly following where W led us. In fact, it’s still going on, but at least folks are starting to call it the BS that it is.
RE: Blazing Saddles - OMG. one of the funniest movies ever … “the sheriff is near!” … “we offer you this laurel and hearty handshake” … “I’m tiiiiired … sick and tired of love … from below and above … let’s face it, I’m pooped!”. C-LASSIC stuff!!
okay, here’s a question for the class … what movie will you stop and watch when you’re channel surfing - even if you’ve seen it a million times and are catchung it mid-way through??? For me, it’s Jaws. (but, no, I don’t cry at the end).
By chuck
March 27, 2008 8:58 AM | Link to this
USinUK, for me it’s either War Games or Ferris Beuller’s Day Off. I love those movies. I will also stop to watch Big Jake and The Cowboys.
Hello Professor Falken. Do you want to play a game?
By USinUK
March 27, 2008 9:32 AM | Link to this
chuck -
FBDO - FAB choice, sir!! I hate to admit it, but I’ve never seen War Games. Never heard of Big Jake and the Cowboys, though.
By Jeopardy
March 27, 2008 9:34 AM | Link to this
George Bernard Shaw of Iran?
That could almost be a Jeopardy question, if it was not inaccurate.
By MovieGoer
March 27, 2008 9:41 AM | Link to this
Big Jake is a great movie, a 1909 Harley Davidson is used as a scout vehicle ahead of the guys on horseback. Movie takes place in 1909.
By USinUK
March 27, 2008 9:55 AM | Link to this
MovieGoer and Chuck -
if you guys like motorcycle movies, run (do not walk) to find The World’s Fastest Indian - it stars Anthony Hopkins as a guy who rebuilds an old motorcycle, then races it on the great salt flats. FANTASTIC movie!!
By chuck
March 27, 2008 10:30 AM | Link to this
Did anybody catch the question answer session between that college student and Chelsea Clinton a couple of days ago?
The college student asked if Hillary HAD LOST CREDIBILITY BY CLAIMING THAT THE LEWINSKY ACCUSATION WAS PART OF A VAST RIGHT WING CONSPIRACY.
Chelsea casigated the student for asking the question then said, and I quote: “It’s none of your business.”
Maybe it’s just me, but I would think that the CREDIBILITY of a presidential candidate is EVERYBODY’S BUSINESS.
By chuck
March 27, 2008 10:44 AM | Link to this
Big Jake and The Cowboys are 2 John Wayne movies. The Duke is at his toughest in Big Jake, but many people believe that “The Cowboys” was his best acting performance. My Dad loved John Wayne. When he was going through Chemo before he died I bought him a portable DVD player and a bunch of John Wayne movies on DVD to watch while he went through those long days. I would sit there with him and read or watch a movie with him.
So sometimes when I’m flippin channels I’ll stop on a “Duke” ovie and watch it “with” my Dad.
By Truth
March 27, 2008 10:48 AM | Link to this
USinUK
World’s fastest Indian has almost replaced Boluxi Blues and Groundhog Day as my favorites. Did you watch the documentary on the DVD about the real guy? It is almost as good as the movie.
Out of here again. Damn meetings. I have never been to one that everything wasn’t decided in the first 15 minutes and then the rest is just BS. These are creative meetings where everybody thinks they have the solution to all the problems which, of course, causes all the problems. Just shut up and write the friggin’ check.
Have a good one.
By USinUK
March 27, 2008 10:53 AM | Link to this
chuck -
be honest. there is nothing Hillary, Bill or Chelsea could ever do that you would approve of. Even if Hill decided to drop out of the race, you would probably accuse her of doing it to be the master puppeteer behind the scenes. She could find a cure for cancer and you would say she did it for the profit. Heck, if any one of them dropped dead in the middle of the night, you’d accuse them of doing it as part of some conspiracy to frame the Republicans.
a kid asked Chelsea about her mother’s reaction to her dad’s affair - a very public affair about which the nation knew every disgusting detail. are you surprised she responded the way she did?? frankly, I thought she handled it pretty well, pointing out that the kid was the first one in 70 campuses to have the gall to bring up her father’s affair.
By USinUK
March 27, 2008 10:57 AM | Link to this
Truth -
So sometimes when I’m flippin channels I’ll stop on a “Duke” ovie and watch it “with” my Dad.
so sorry about your Dad - lost my mom to cancer, as well, so I know what you mean.
I think I know The Cowboys - isn’t that when John Wayne is driving cattle with a group of kids (of which the youngest Carradine brother is one)??? I’ve only seen bits of it, but thought it was great.
Have a great one!! (despite the meetings)
By JokesOn
March 27, 2008 11:05 AM | Link to this
Maybe it’s just me, but I would think that the CREDIBILITY of a presidential candidate is EVERYBODY’S BUSINESS.
Not when it comes to affairs, which are immoral but not illegal.
By Gandalf, the Grey
March 27, 2008 11:09 AM | Link to this
Even that stupid Brit girl should understand that being in power has nothing to do with race, but language!
Why is the US great? Because EVERYONE speaks the same language. Why is Africa so FUBAR? Because there are thousands of different laguages!
So, to solve world issues, let us Americans take over everthing and persecute all those that don’t speak English. Problem Solved!
By JokesOn
March 27, 2008 11:21 AM | Link to this
Why is the US great? Because EVERYONE speaks the same language. Why is Africa so FUBAR? Because there are thousands of different laguages!
Africa is a continent and the US is a country;/
If you compared apples/apples you would have to refer to North America which has 300+ languages.
By USinUK
March 27, 2008 11:27 AM | Link to this
Jokes -
Not when it comes to affairs, which are immoral but not illegal.
I never thought I’d say this … but I’m not sure I agree with you on that one. If a candidate (male/female, R or D) stands on a soapbox and proclaims him- herself as a moral authority (see Elliot Spitzer or Henry Hyde), then, yes, I do think that any/all affairs they have are in the public’s interest.
Now, where I think you and I are probably in agreement - I don’t think it’s anyone’s business if the spouse decides to stay or walk, or if the kids decide to disown their parent. That’s a family matter and has nothing to do with us.
By JokesOn
March 27, 2008 11:49 AM | Link to this
If a candidate (male/female, R or D) stands on a soapbox and proclaims him- herself as a moral authority (see Elliot Spitzer or Henry Hyde), then, yes, I do think that any/all affairs they have are in the public’s interest.
If the public wants to do a recall or such, fine. I do not think that it is any type of policy issue and people should not have their affairs policed.
Granted, if someone was caught during a prostitute sting, that should be pursued. As soon as an investigation goes from embezzlement to sexual affair, I think the officials should back out.
By USinUK
March 27, 2008 11:54 AM | Link to this
JokesOn -
As soon as an investigation goes from embezzlement to sexual affair, I think the officials should back out
on a law and order standpoint, I’m in agreement with you. the problem is (and always will be) that sex sells … so, the media will always have a field day when candidates or elected officials have affairs.
By chuck
March 27, 2008 11:54 AM | Link to this
USinUK, thanks for the sentiments. It’s been 3 years, but it seems like yesterday. I know you feel the same way about your Mom. You are right about the synopsis of “The Cowboys”. I think it was Robert Carradine, the one from the “Nerds” movies who was in it. I’ll have to find “World’s Fastest Indian”.
War Games came out in 1983. It has a YOUNG Matthew Broderick and a young Ally Sheedy in the main roles. Dabney Coleman played a great character in it also. It’s basically about a kid who hacks into the main frame of NORAD to play what he THOUGHT was a computer game. I think it was probably the very first movie about computer hackers. I won’t give away much more, but it would be good for one of those rainy British Afternoons.
The point of the QUESTION was not the affair, but rather Hillary blaming the ACCUSATION on a “VAST RIGHT WING CONSPIRACY”, which was proven to be totally false. He actually DID HAVE the affair. It made Hillary look foolish and clueless. The question was of CREDIBILITY not whether or not Hillary was going to “stand by her man”. I would agree with you that THAT would be none of our business, but the fact that Hillary didn’t know what was going on in her own house AND used the accusation as an opportunity to blame conservatives for it IS our business.
Face it, one of 2 things was true. Either she KNEW and was out there thinking she could help him make it go away by blaming the Right OR she was clueless about what was going on in her own house. EITHER WAY, the question was legitimate concerning her ability to be effective as President.
By USinUK
March 27, 2008 12:12 PM | Link to this
chuck -
I wish I could say it gets easier. it doesn’t. my mom has been gone for 15 years and I still think about her every day.
You’re right about The Cowboys - it is Robert Carradine (favorite movie of his - and one of my fav WWII movies - The Big Red One). Although, I gotta say, my fav John Wayne movie is the The Quiet Man - it has one of the best movie lines ever written: “I’m not saying it’s true and I’m not saying it’s not, but there’s been talk”
I remember War Games, just never got around to seeing it. And, I love Matthew Broderick - he was great in Biloxi Blues, The Freshman and, of course, FBDO. Ally Sheedy, I could always take or leave.
As far as what Hill knew and when she knew it about the affair - the schedule most first ladies keep is about as busy as most CEOs, so her “not knowing what’s going on in her own house” isn’t like a normal housewife not knowing what’s going on. And, if she did know what was going on and decided to give Bill “air cover” by blaming it on a VRWC, so what?? That’s her prerogative as a WIFE to do that. It says more about her as a significant other than it does as a president.
My husband already knows - if he ever pulled a stunt like that, all his stuff would be out in the front yard on fire. After I threw it out of our 2nd story window. But, hey, it’s not for me to judge how other marriages operate.
By defluff
March 27, 2008 12:25 PM | Link to this
Jokeson, good come-back man! We’ll never be able to outlaw or legislate away stupidity, unfortunately.
By Gandalf, the Grey
March 27, 2008 12:33 PM | Link to this
By JokesOn
You said “Africa is a continent and the US is a country;/ If you compared apples/apples you would have to refer to North America which has 300+ languages.”
Apples to stupid Tribal Continent: How’s that? I understand the geography of the world. The point I was trying to make was that we are strong because we share a language, not because we are black or white or hispanic.. devisiveness no, cohehisiveness, yes!
By USinUK
March 27, 2008 12:44 PM | Link to this
JokesOn …
you’ve heard the expression “never try to teach a pig to sing” … ???? some efforts are just a waste of time …
By kimberly
March 27, 2008 12:50 PM | Link to this
You people who are obssessed with the sexual behavior of others are just as sick as you think THEY are. (Yes, you!) As long as it involves consenting adults, it’s none of our flippin’ business. USinUK has a good point about the soapbox; frankly I don’t care if Sen. Larry Craig (taptaptap) has gay sex with strangers and denies it. I DO have a problem with crusaders of hate who deny gay people the rights that other Americans enjoy. That some, like Sen. Craig, play both sides of that fence is indeed pertinent to the voters who elected them on a “morality” platform.
Officials who run and serve on the basis of competence and qualifications should not be subjected to this inappropriate prying into the secret life of their private parts. Save it for those who are asking for it, like the ones who thump Bibles to get votes.
That being said, if you vote for someone based on their “sexual morality,” (unless having sex is actually a part of the job description for which you’re voting for/hiring that person), YOU ARE AN IDIOT! It’s called voyeurism, and you’ve got it. Get help, sickos.
By chuck
March 27, 2008 12:51 PM | Link to this
I liked the Quiet Man, but it was way different from most of his roles. I liked the more rough and tumble roles. I was watching Patrick Wayne being interviewed by O’Reilly a few weeks ago. He was talking about True Grit, (The Duke won the Oscar for that role) which was never one of my favorites when I was younger. I watched it again for the first time in YEARS and I’ve got to say that I really enjoyed it. I guess as you get older, your tastes change.
By kimberly
March 27, 2008 1:02 PM | Link to this
Chuck, I also like The Quiet Man. Nice fairy tale. Makes me wish for a cottage nestled in some green rolling hills in a quiet place where people are still polite.
By USinUK
March 27, 2008 1:04 PM | Link to this
have never seen True Grit
(hanging head in shame)
By Scalia
March 27, 2008 1:07 PM | Link to this
Good points, Kimberly. It is no better than somebody voting for Obama because he is African-American, voting just because they are a Republican, or voting for Hillary solely because she is a woman.
Is the candidate qualified for the job? Yes or No? Can they bring necessary changes to the government?
For example, why haven’t we found an alternative fuel for gas? We are helping our enemy by funneling money into their countries.
By JokesOn
March 27, 2008 1:35 PM | Link to this
The point of the QUESTION was not the affair, but rather Hillary blaming the ACCUSATION on a “VAST RIGHT WING CONSPIRACY”, which was proven to be totally false. He actually DID HAVE the affair.
You ever compare how much was spent on investigating clinton (which led to a simple hummer) versus how much was spent on the 9-11 investigation? About a factor of 10 difference, the larger number being on the clinton investigation. Priorities anyone?
Gandalf:
I understand the geography of the world. No. You obviously do not.
By Wendy Weinbaum
March 27, 2008 1:47 PM | Link to this
I love your fresh pro-gun perspective! As a Jewess in the US, may I remind everone that criminals are stopped by FIREARMS, not by talk? And that America wasn’t won with a registered gun? That is why all REAL Americans put our 2nd Amendment FIRST!
By chuck
March 27, 2008 2:05 PM | Link to this
Hey Kimberly. It would be nice to find a place like that to retire in…as long as they have cable.
Scalia, I agree with you to a point, BUT, the thing that sticks in my craw when these things come up is the violation of that sacred trust between a husband and wife. It takes me back to when Bob Livingstone, an up and coming Republican leader (no pun intended), was caught in an affair. He reconciled with his wife, which is great, but what really impressed me is that he immediately resigned from his office in the the House of Representatives, proving that the reconciliation was NOT about politics.
People who say that the “Lewinsky Affair” was a PRIVATE matter are wrong for three different reasons.
First, it didn’t happen in some sleazy, rent-by-the-hour hotel, it happened in the WHITE HOUSE, also known as the PEOPLE’S HOUSE. It happened within a few steps of the place where some of the most important decisions in the history of the world were made. It cheapend the office and put the people’s business on hold.
Talk about losing respect in the world.
Second, Clinton lied about it UNDER OATH. Whether or not you think he should have been put under oath in that case, HE COULD HAVE REFUSED TO DO IT UNTIL AFTER HE WAS OUT OF OFFICE. He chose to go on that stand and he knew the consequences for lying. That took the issue from the private realm to the public realm. How do you give the President a pass when HE violates the law while at the same time saying that NO ONE is above the law in our system of justice? You can’t.
Third, Hillary chose to KEEP it public when she went on GMA and claimed that the whole thing was a lie propogated by CONSERVATIVES. Let’s face it. The Clinton’s think that they can say anything and get away with it. With her, it is obviously a PATTERN of behavior. Look at the lies she has told in just the last 2 weeks.
One of the biggest issues for me in selecting a candidate for which I will vote, is TRUST. The Clinton’s definitively FAIL that test.
By KillSpam
March 27, 2008 2:06 PM | Link to this
WendyWeinbaum is starting to look like a spammer.
By JokesOn
March 27, 2008 2:07 PM | Link to this
Have any of you googled “Wendy Weinbaum?”
The poster is a bot spamming tons of sites. Kind of funny to see all the hits.
By JokesOn
March 27, 2008 2:26 PM | Link to this
One of the biggest issues for me in selecting a candidate for which I will vote, is TRUST. The Clinton’s definitively FAIL that test.
Yet you are fine with lying to go to war. I know, you are one of the three people that believe that there were WMDs - even though the administration et all have admitted to finding nothing.
Your priorities are pretty backwards IMHO, but I do not think you think about any of this anyways - purely animalistic reaction.
By KillSpam
March 27, 2008 2:37 PM | Link to this
The catalyst for Wendy Weinbaum’s post here was probably someone’s comment yesterday about carrying a gun or even terms like “smoking gun”. Seems most of those bot postings are an gun-related web-sites.
By kimberly
March 27, 2008 2:52 PM | Link to this
One of the biggest issues for me in selecting a candidate for which I will vote, is TRUST.
Forget about “trusting” the candidate for whom you want to vote. Ask yourself whether you can trust the big donors, close friends, and special interests that OWN that person and their future decisions. (Great examples in the current administration!) What you want or need takes a distant back seat; don’t kid yourself thinking you actually matter.
By chuck
March 27, 2008 3:05 PM | Link to this
If you can TRUST the Candidate, Kimberly, you don’t have to worry about the donors. Granted, there are not a lot of those kinds of candidates left. Really sad when you think about it.
By El Perro
March 27, 2008 3:23 PM | Link to this
Sorry to burst your bubble dude, but the 1:22 and 2:55 posts were not me. My last post yesterday was at 10:51. Somebody is messing with your head.
You might be right about that one, chuck. I’m not very computer savvy, but I’ve got a friend doing some forensics to determine what IP address is associated with NoBuffoonsAllowed.
You people who are obssessed with the sexual behavior of others are just as sick as you think THEY are. (Yes, you!)
There’s a letter to the editor in today’s ajc print edition pointing to the real culprit in all of these sex scandals: the media. Instead of reporting real news, they are more interested in selling papers through yellow journalism, unfortunately. In Bill Clinton’s case, however, it is reported that he was receiving his pleasures while doing official national business (i.e. talking on the phone to a Congressman). In that case, it may be pertinent. Not that I really care at this point. The less I hear about the Clintons, the better. I do think it’s rather revealing about Hillary’s character that she apparently is willing to destroy the Democratic Party if she can’t steal the nomination for Prez from Obama.
As for John Wayne movies, I think “The Shootist” is far and away his best work. He knew he was dying of cancer, and left a poignant goodbye for all his fans.
By El Perro
March 27, 2008 3:28 PM | Link to this
Yet you are fine with lying to go to war. I know, you are one of the three people that believe that there were WMDs - even though the administration et all have admitted to finding nothing.
Bush isn’t running this time, JokesOn. I voted for him last time because I still thought he was infinitely better than John Kerry. Hopefully, McCain will be a breath of fresh air in the WH.
Out of curiosity, has anyone checked into Obama’s and Hillary’s mortgage bail-out schemes. Pretty scary stuff. That, along with Hillary’s anti-constitutional proposals to force everyone to purchase health insurance should give any true-blue American to be frightened. Sorry, but I’m not ready to turn all my freedom over to the government.
By kimberly
March 27, 2008 3:29 PM | Link to this
That’s a fairy tale, Chuck. As long as MONEY drives our electoral process, our leaders will be owned. The truly honest, above-board citizens with a real concern for keeping the government honest and ensuring it serves the people as it should — these people cannot raise enough money to be heard, let alone elected. As long as the corporate media plays such a huge role in this popularity contest, (not to be confused with objective, substantive reporting, which rarely happens), the unindentured candidates will never be heard. Some countries circumvent this nonsense we endure in ever-lengthening cycles: Each candidate who qualifies gets the same amount of air time. The people listen; the people decide. Not so here. Money buys your ear, and money owns our leaders. That they can convince you to “TRUST” them is truly sad.
By El Perro
March 27, 2008 3:34 PM | Link to this
Woofs to all.
By JokesOn
March 27, 2008 3:38 PM | Link to this
That, along with Hillary’s anti-constitutional proposals to force everyone to purchase health insurance should give any true-blue American to be frightened. Sorry, but I’m not ready to turn all my freedom over to the government.
I am quite sure there are opt out provisions, not that I back her plan. Just want to keep the incorrect info out of the discussions.
Bush isn’t running this time, JokesOn.
I know. Was pointing out the absurdity of chuckie weighing affairs heavier than choices that get people killed.
By El Perro
March 27, 2008 3:49 PM | Link to this
I am quite sure there are opt out provisions, not that I back her plan. Just want to keep the incorrect info out of the discussions.
No opt out-plans that I’m aware of. It’s not easy to find a copy of the 1993 Hillary-Care Health Plan online anymore, but the bottom line is that the Clintons’ plan was to assign everyone to specific doctors, which you had no say in choosing. Anyone who then dared to choose their own doctors was subject to hefty fines and jail time. Specifically, the doctors faced fines up to $250,000 and 6 months in jail if they agreed to see a patient not assigned to them. Like most liberal schemes, the intent might have sounded noble, but the enforcement of the schemes makes the Gestapo look like Goldilocks.
By JokesOn
March 27, 2008 3:59 PM | Link to this
El Perro,
I have to be honest. Since I am not even considering her, I have not looked at her plan. If what you say is accurate then I would agree.
Still weighing between Obama and McCain.
By El Perro
March 27, 2008 4:08 PM | Link to this
Still weighing between Obama and McCain.
On a personal level, I still like Obama, and could envision going out for a beer with him. His racial pandering doesn’t even bother me too much, because I know if he were elected, no legislation with any real teeth to further reverse discrimination would ever make it through Congress. My biggest concern about him is that he really doesn’t grasp the “Big Picture” in terms of National Security, economics, etc. His stated economic bail-out plans don’t make any sense. The financial markets, including the mortgage markets, are going through a much-needed correction right now. You can’t have never-ending upward business cycles with no down cycles. That’s just the way life is. McCain is right in that the best course of action is to just let the cards fall were they may, however painful that may be in the short run.
By JokesOn
March 27, 2008 4:26 PM | Link to this
That’s just the way life is. McCain is right in that the best course of action is to just let the cards fall were they may, however painful that may be in the short run.
I like that about him too. There can be some bandaging along the way, but for the most part what is done is done.
Once again, not a hillary fan, but her plan is better than you may have thought.
Sorry about the plagiarizing but (link: http://www.prospect.org/csnc/blogs/ezrakleinarchive?month=09&year=2007&basename=thehillaryplan):
Let me try and give a quick sketch of the Clinton proposal before I have to run for a meeting. Here’s the thumbnail: Clinton’s plan is of the “individual mandate” variety, in which universal coverage is achieved by mandating that every American purchase health care. In order to ensure that that’s both possible and affordable, the Clinton plan creates a few new coverage options, reform the insurance industry, limits coverage costs to a percentage of income, and washes your car.
Okay, it doesn’t wash your car. It does open the Federal Employee Health Benefits Program to everybody, ensuring that anyone can access the same menu of regulated private options that federal employees get. FEHBP is the program that already insures millions of current government employees, including the members of Congress, by offering a variety of regulated private options to choose from. Throwing the doors to that program wide open is the most basic and ubiquitous of coverage solutions.
More importantly, the plan also creates a new public insurance option, modeled off, but distinct from, Medicare. That’s a big deal: The public insurer offers full coverage and is open to all Americans without restriction. Public insurance is what I feared her plan would avoid, and instead, she embraced it wholeheartedly. The concern with a plan like this (as with the Edwards plan), is that insurers will market coverage to the young and healthy and subtly tilt the public plan’s risk pool towards the old and sick (the check is that governmental plans are, for reasons related to administration costs and care incentives, cheaper). At the end of the day, there’s not much that can be done about that, unless you want to tax insurers with overly healthy pools, as they do in Germany. Come to think of it, that’s exactly what they should do — it was even in the 1994 bill.
And if you don’t go through the newly expanded FEHBP or the public option, preferring to keep your current insurance, you’ll still be dealing with a heavily-regulated and reformed insurance industry, which can no longer price discriminate based on preexisting conditions or demographic characteristics, refuse you coverage, or deny renewal of your policy — including if you change your job. So if you like your current insurance but quit your cubicled existence at MegaCorp, your insurer can’t drop you. All this matters because it keeps the private programs from having too much capacity to undercut the risk pools of the other options. It also destroys the elements of the insurance industry’s business model that rely too explicitly on screwing you over.
By El Perro
March 27, 2008 4:41 PM | Link to this
Thanks for the link, and an explanation of the “options” available, but the bottom line is that every American who exceeds a certain income level will be FORCED to purchase health insurance, whether the FEHP variety or otherwise.
Sorry, but I don’t agree that Hillary, or any other elected official who stands to gain from this radical expansion of governmental power knows what is best for me and my own individual situation.
I don’t know how much personal experience you have had in trying to deal with Medicare or the VA, but every health care professional I know avoids dealing with them if at all possible. The FEHP is a great tax-payer subsidized plan for the “poor” members of Congress, but it would lose its sheen if everyone became eligible for it.
By NoBuffoonsAllowed
March 27, 2008 4:43 PM | Link to this
La Perra -
Make sure you let us all know how that friend doing forensics works out for you, okay? Sure sounds like BS to me.
And I was not those fake chuck posts either. But then your brilliant forensic friend should be able to prove that.
By Archie
March 27, 2008 4:44 PM | Link to this
*You people who are obssessed with the sexual behavior of others are just as sick as you think THEY are. (Yes, you!) As long as it involves consenting adults, it’s none of our flippin’ business. USinUK has a good point about the soapbox; frankly I don’t care if Sen. Larry Craig (taptaptap) has gay sex with strangers and denies it. I DO have a problem with crusaders of hate who deny gay people the rights that other Americans enjoy. That some, like Sen. Craig, play both sides of that fence is indeed pertinent to the voters who elected them on a “morality” platform.
Officials who run and serve on the basis of competence and qualifications should not be subjected to this inappropriate prying into the secret life of their private parts. Save it for those who are asking for it, like the ones who thump Bibles to get votes.
That being said, if you vote for someone based on their “sexual morality,” (unless having sex is actually a part of the job description for which you’re voting for/hiring that person), YOU ARE AN IDIOT! It’s called voyeurism, and you’ve got it. Get help, sickos*
I enjoyed that post so much Kimberly that I reposted it. I long for the old days on this blog. Good post Kimberly.
By Archie
March 27, 2008 4:50 PM | Link to this
JokesOn at least you’re discussing the issue. I have to challenge you JokesOn a little bit… If you are against the war and you believe in universal healthcare then how can you think about McCain? I have seen you bash Bush so how can you consider McCain? I am asking those questions to JokesOn and of course, you know, we’re cool with each other.
By El Perro
March 27, 2008 4:50 PM | Link to this
From my perspective, we still have the best health-care system in the world. If I were elected, I would work hard toward restoring health insurance to what it was intended to be: A last-resort voluntary plan to avoid catastrophic losses in the case of catastrophic illnesses like cancer or heart disease. The day that routine doctor’s visits began to be covered is the day that the system went sour, IMO. The most economically sensible plan would be to return routine health expenses back to a pay-as-you go scheme (i.e. cash on the barrel), which is what a lot of doctors are moving back toward. By eliminating all the unnecessary administrative costs, the doctors can then offer a reasonable fee which the average person can pay. I just visited a skin doctor last week who used this plan. For $95 he removed two warts and examined two other skin problems for me. Add on a $95 lab fee, and I was out the door for $190. With insurance, it would have been more like $500, I’m sure.
By JokesOn
March 27, 2008 4:54 PM | Link to this
I don’t know how much personal experience you have had in trying to deal with Medicare or the VA, but every health care professional I know avoids dealing with them if at all possible.
I understand and agree with your concerns. Just making sure we are agreeing on the same info. Do not want lurkers to get mis-informed;)
Make sure you let us all know how that friend doing forensics works out for you, okay? Sure sounds like BS to me.
That is true. You cannot get a persons IP from our end. Even if you could, you would have to use a table from their ISP to correlate that IP to a user.
I simply put in a complaint to the AJC stating that someone was posting personal information on the blog, which is a criminal offense. I will spam them again if we hear nothing by monday.
By raimunda
March 27, 2008 4:54 PM | Link to this
Sorry, but Venezuela does not have a “Dictator.” I believe Andrea meant the elected president, Hugo Chavez, who was most recently chosen by 63% of Venezuelans at the polls amid high voter turnout in December 2006.
By El Perro
March 27, 2008 4:57 PM | Link to this
Save it for those who are asking for it, like the ones who thump Bibles to get votes.
I have to disagree with you on that one, Archie. The “liberal” argument seems to be that if you don’t profess any moral standards, then no one should hold you to any subsequent wrongdoing. Kind of a shaky moral position, don’t you think?
As for you and the other “liberals” continuing to pine for the “old days” on W2W, I thought that that was a “conservative” habit, no? What happened to embracing change?? ; > }
By El Perro
March 27, 2008 5:01 PM | Link to this
I simply put in a complaint to the AJC stating that someone was posting personal information on the blog, which is a criminal offense. I will spam them again if we hear nothing by monday.
I’m not aware that that constitutes a criminal offense or not, but would be happy to handle it on a man-to-man basis if only chuck and Chilao would be kind enough to provide their home addresses. You would think these geniuses could differentiate between a blog and real life. Thanks for the support.
By JokesOn
March 27, 2008 5:05 PM | Link to this
If you are against the war and you believe in universal healthcare then how can you think about McCain?
McCain has said himself that we must work with our allies and listen to what they have to say. This, plus many other, statements lead me to believe that he knows he cannot dis’ GWB or he will be excommunicated by his party. I get the impression that he would have acted very different than GWB.
I like the idea of universal health care, but am not a one-issue-voter.
I have seen you bash Bush so how can you consider McCain?
See above. What I hear is McCain trying to send that message without shooting foot.
Maybe I can answer better tomorrow. for to answer now would mean staying at work past 5 and not doing that today;) (no offence)
By kimberly
March 27, 2008 5:09 PM | Link to this
Thanks, Archie! Glad to have entertained you.
But then, the single parent making $12 an hour with two kids who has to miss a day’s work (and pay) sitting in the emergency room with a crying kid whose eardrum is about to burst probably doesn’t HAVE $190 for preventative care. Oh well, some people matter, some people don’t, right?
Outta here. The dog stinks.
By El Perro
March 28, 2008 8:30 AM | Link to this
But then, the single parent making $12 an hour with two kids who has to miss a day’s work (and pay) sitting in the emergency room with a crying kid whose eardrum is about to burst probably doesn’t HAVE $190 for preventative care. Oh well, some people matter, some people don’t, right?
I’m trying hard to respect your “analysis” of our health care system and the plight of single parents but, frankly, I can’t. The FACT is that charity hospitals and reduced-fee public clinics have always been available for the “less fortunate” to use. Are these facilities on equal footing with private doctors’ offices? No, but why should they be?
The FACT is that nearly 70% of all diagnostic testing and surgeries are either ineffective and/or unnecessary by estimates that I’ve seen. As such, I don’t see how expanding health care coverage is the answer. A very strong argument can be made that the third-party payor system is the reason behind all this dishonesty, along with the FACT that doctors are forced to practice “defensive medicine” due to the fear of a malpractice lawsuit by some ambulance-chasing attorney.
The FACT is that countries with socialized medicine, like Canada, have high rates of taxation which stunts their economies. The FACT is that once socialized medicine is instituted, rationing of health care begins almost immediately. The last time I checked, the waiting time in Canada for hip replacement surgery is about 8 months. Furthermore, the FACT is that wealthy citizens of countries which have socialized medicine often come to the US for their health care when they need heart surgery, etc. The FACT is that the federal health care systems we already have, Medicare, Medicaid, and the VA, are rife with fraud and inefficiency.
As for single parenthood (typically single motherhood), the FACT is that this usually creates a life-long disadvantage for children raised in such an environment. As such, I would expect our government to do all it could to discourage this situation. The FACT is, however, that ever since Johnson’s “Great Society” programs, in which single mothers are PAID to keep having OOW children, the rates of single parenthood have SOARED, especially among black and latino families.
Outta here. The dog stinks.
If you come up with some actual FACTS to support your conclusions that socialized medicine and more support/encouragement for single parenthood by the government is going to lead us to a better world for our children, let me know. Until then, I’m going to have to lump you in with Brian Curtis and 72John, who ran away when they found out they couldn’t support their wild claims, ok?
By El Perro
March 28, 2008 8:45 AM | Link to this
I don’t have much time today, but I’d also like to hear back from Nat regarding his claim that the tribal infighting in Africa and the Middle East is somehow a result of colonization by white Europeans. I promise I won’t demean or disrespect you if you step forward. You see, Nat, I’ve studied a lot of African and Middle Eastern History, and your claims just don’t check out. The FACT is that Africa has been a violent continent for all recorded time, beginning with the Egyptians. The FACT is that all the gold which was used by the Pharaohs to make ornate jewelry was taken by force from their Nubian neighbors to the south. In fact, it almost became a rite of passage for each new Pharaoh to organize an expedition to the south to plunder the resources and return with boatloads of Nubian slaves. The FACT is that slavery has persisted within Africa from the time of the Egyptians all the way to present time. White men didn’t invent slavery, nor tribal warfare. The European slave trade was accomplished with the full cooperation and participation of the African warlords from the very beginning. As such, the responsibility for that despicable trade needs to be shared by all.
The bottom line, Nat, is that if we are going to move forward as a HUMAN race, all the finger-pointing needs to stop at some point.
By USinUK
March 28, 2008 8:56 AM | Link to this
Perro -
The FACT is that countries with socialized medicine, like Canada, have high rates of taxation which stunts their economies.
oh, dear. seems that someone has been into the koolaid again.
first of all, I live in the UK and have experienced socialized healthcare first-hand. Is it perfect?? no. but it’s a darned sight better than what’s going on in the US right now. Yes, the US has good doctors and hospitals - IF YOU CAN AFFORD TO PAY FOR IT. However, if you are working poor, if your job doesn’t offer health insurance, if you have a pre-existing condition and are refused coverage, then you are S-O-L.
Are there lines for procedures that aren’t urgent?? yep, there are. But, you know what, ask any woman in this forum how long it takes to see an OBGYN in the US for an annual pap smear - there’s usually upwards of a 6-8 week waiting time. Same with non-urgent surgeries - those don’t happen overnight, either.
Also, as for rationing health services - what the bloomin’ heck do you think insurance companies do??? hmmm??? they don’t allow any and all tests to be performed, sometimes even vetoing a physician’s recommendation for testing or treatment.
Does the UK have high taxes? Roughly 30% of my paycheck goes to National Insurance and income tax - roughly the same amount that was deducted for Social Security and income tax in the US. But, you know the difference?? If I or my husband ever lost our jobs and became sick, we’d still be able to go to the hospital without going bankrupt. Our perscriptions only cost £10 (unless you’re under 16, pregnant or have children under 2 or are over 65 - then, your ‘scripts are free). And, if you’re housebound, doctors still make housecalls here.
Lastly, I hate to break it to you this way - but there is “medical tourism” in pretty much every developed country. People go to where the specialists who deal with their particular needs are - and that includes the UK, France, Spain, Sweden, etc - all countries with socialized medicine.
So, get off your high horse, Perro - the US healthcare system isn’t all that. According to studies, it is the most expensive and offers inferior service.
By El Perro
March 28, 2008 9:11 AM | Link to this
first of all, I live in the UK and have experienced socialized healthcare first-hand. Is it perfect?? no. but it’s a darned sight better than what’s going on in the US right now. Yes, the US has good doctors and hospitals - IF YOU CAN AFFORD TO PAY FOR IT. However, if you are working poor, if your job doesn’t offer health insurance, if you have a pre-existing condition and are refused coverage, then you are S-O-L.
What ails the US healthcare system should certainly be addressed, but throwing out the baby with the bathwater is NOT the answer, IMO. If we returned to a simple fee-for-service system in which routine doctor’s visits were paid directly by—gasp—the recipient, we’d be much better off.
Are there lines for procedures that aren’t urgent?? yep, there are. But, you know what, ask any woman in this forum how long it takes to see an OBGYN in the US for an annual pap smear - there’s usually upwards of a 6-8 week waiting time. Same with non-urgent surgeries - those don’t happen overnight, either.
Huh?? As far as I know, any woman can walk into her gynecologist’s office TODAY and receive a pap smear if she’s willing to pay for it.
Also, as for rationing health services - what the bloomin’ heck do you think insurance companies do??? hmmm??? they don’t allow any and all tests to be performed, sometimes even vetoing a physician’s recommendation for testing or treatment.
Without the “rationing” by the insurance companies, the costs would triple overnight due to folks demanding the most expensive testing and treatment available. I.e. as long as they aren’t paying but a small copay out of pocket. I get exactly whatever tests and procedures I wish for, because I pay for them myself.
Does the UK have high taxes? Roughly 30% of my paycheck goes to National Insurance and income tax - roughly the same amount that was deducted for Social Security and income tax in the US.
And what is the unemployment rate all across Europe? The lowered taxes you pay in Britain came courtesy of the hated Tony Blair, BTW, something I’m sure you’re aware of.
So, get off your high horse, Perro
Not a chance, USinUK. ; > } Thanks again for your intelligent input, however. You are a refreshing contrast to the emotional liberal wailers who used to dominate this board.
By El Perro
March 28, 2008 9:14 AM | Link to this
P.S. Why does so much of the “medical tourism” to the US consist of citizens from the very countries you mentioned, including Canada and the UK?? Maybe the US healthcare system IS all that (except for the cost, which is primarily due to fraud).
By El Perro
March 28, 2008 9:29 AM | Link to this
I’ve got to leave for a few hours, USinUK, so I thought I’d play a little Marley for you:
Rise up this mornin’, Smiled with the risin’ sun,
Three little birds
Pitch by my doorstep
Singin’ sweet songs
Of melodies pure and true,
Sayin’, (“This is my message to you-ou-ou:”)
.
Singin’: “Don’t worry ‘bout a thing,
‘Cause every little thing gonna be all right.”
Singin’: “Don’t worry (don’t worry) ‘bout a thing,
‘Cause every little thing gonna be all right!”
By USinUK
March 28, 2008 9:51 AM | Link to this
Perro -
Since you’re heading out, I’ll keep this brief -
Huh?? As far as I know, any woman can walk into her gynecologist’s office TODAY and receive a pap smear if she’s willing to pay for it.
ah, no. BELIEVE ME when I tell you that is soooooo not the case.
I get exactly whatever tests and procedures I wish for, because I pay for them myself.
If that’s how you handle your health care, then you pay more than 5x what it would cost if you went through insurance. I had a breast cancer scare a few years ago - with insurance, my out of pocket costs were roughly $3,000 … if I did not have insurance, my out of pocket costs would have been $18,000 (according to the bills I received from my doctors, the labs, the radiologists, etc).
And what is the unemployment rate all across Europe? The lowered taxes you pay in Britain came courtesy of the hated Tony Blair, BTW, something I’m sure you’re aware of.
1) Unemployment in the U.S. = 4.8% and hovering. Unemployment in the UK = 5.5% and falling. Unemployment in the Eurozone = 7.5% and falling. 2) Taxes have gone UP under the Blair/Brown era, not down.
Why does so much of the “medical tourism” to the US consist of citizens from the very countries you mentioned, including Canada and the UK??
As I mentioned, people travel to see certain specialists. People from Canada and Europe come here, too. People here go to other countries in Europe as well as the US. If people traveled to the US only, then you would have a point - but they don’t, so you don’t.
Lastly - One more fantastic movie recommendation (and I can’t BELIEVE I forgot this one) - The Station Agent. 2 tremendous thumbs up!!! (no Kleenex required, but it is a fantastic movie, nonetheless)
By USinUK
March 28, 2008 9:55 AM | Link to this
Perro -
btw - it’s a cold, grey and drizzly here in Londontown so, thanks for the Marley … I needed that!!!
By Kali
March 28, 2008 11:06 AM | Link to this
Huh?? As far as I know, any woman can walk into her gynecologist’s office TODAY and receive a pap smear if she’s willing to pay for it.
Ha, ha, ha, ha, ha! As far as you know, looks like you don’t know nuthin’ dude! I wait for those appointments at least a month and often longer every single time. These days the most ignorant people can spew garbage simply because they know how to type and have a computer. Of course ignorance is everywhere. I heard a radio disc jockey on some country station saying he just knows when the whole story comes out that Hillary, Bill and Monica were piled up together! Now does he have anything … anything to base that supposition on? I don’t think so. He just hates Bill and Hillary Clinton. Why? Because he believes everything Rush says probably. I will vote for Senator Clinton. I believe she is the best person for the job. I don’t want McCain, he’s against choice for women. He thinks the government (still mostly male) should decide for me and every other woman whether I should carry every pregnancy to term. Force us to birth unwanted children we can’t take care of and cut all the programs that would help single parents! He has always voted against the working people in this country and he’s gone along and supported everything the Bush adm has ever done. Torture, when the unthinkable becomes acceptable. Lie after lie after lie by this adm., lies that led us into an unnecessary military action that’s taken the lives of at least 4,000 American men and women in uniform and unknown numbers of innocent Iraqis. Lies that are costing us billions of dollars and ruining this country for any children born today! Ruining the environment to help companies that pollute and pressuring scientists to lie about it. And we’re supposed to forget because it’s in the past! Never!
By lozen
March 28, 2008 11:11 AM | Link to this
USinUK, keep up the good work!
By Jo
March 28, 2008 11:18 AM | Link to this
well, I can’t let this one go by. It’s ridiculous for a man who has never had to make a GYN appointment to say any woman can walk into an office and get a pap! This is typical of the crap that comes out of this mentally ill brain-midget all the time.
By USinUK
March 28, 2008 11:21 AM | Link to this
Lozen -
where ya been, my friend???
By USinUK
March 28, 2008 11:27 AM | Link to this
hahaha … I knew that if I opened it up to the class, all the women would stand up and tell what a nightmare it is to book an appointment with the OBGYN …
preach on, sisters!!!!
(btw - for you guys in the class … for the majority of women, the OBGYN is the one doctor we see every year so that person is our primary care provider)
By Facts
March 28, 2008 11:29 AM | Link to this
These days the most ignorant people can spew garbage simply because they know how to type and have a computer.
such words of wisdom.
By lozen
March 28, 2008 11:47 AM | Link to this
Hi, USinUK, I was busy at work getting ready for vacation - then on vacation - now busy at work trying to catch up after vacation. I read your erudite responses (sometimes what you’re responding to) and cheer you on.
By El Perro
March 28, 2008 11:50 AM | Link to this
my out of pocket costs were roughly $3,000 … if I did not have insurance, my out of pocket costs would have been $18,000 (according to the bills I received from my doctors, the labs, the radiologists, etc).
Key words, USinUK: Out of Pocket Expenses If you were paying cash from the beginning, without all the unnecessary administrative costs, the Total Cost would or should have been far less. That is my whole point. With the third-party payor system in place, fees became rapidly inflated. Fortunately, there is a movement back toward honest, pay-as-you go medical care.
btw - it’s a cold, grey and drizzly here in Londontown so, thanks for the Marley … I needed that!!!
Anything for you, me luv’! (I’m glad you didn’t notice the built-in slight toward folks perhaps like yourself who are only too happy to turn their health care and everything else over to Big Brother. “Don’t worry ‘bout a thing… ; > } DO you get it now??)
Also, I’m still waiting for the Bud Light that goes with your “I love you, man” from the other day. Seriously, you are a jewel.
By USinUK
March 28, 2008 11:56 AM | Link to this
lozen - welcome back! hope you had a good break (although it is sooooo hard to get back in the groove at work!)
By kimberly
March 28, 2008 11:56 AM | Link to this
As for single parenthood (typically single motherhood), the FACT is that this usually creates a life-long disadvantage for children raised in such an environment.
I’ll relate your brilliant observation to all the single parents I know, especially the men and women whose spouses walked away from their marriage vows and rarely, if ever, send a child support check. This accounts for most of them. I know a handful that were widowed, a couple of those who were wiped out from the medical bills preceeding the spouse’s death. Also, there are quite a few parents who are single because pointless drug laws indicate parents should be locked up over an ounce of pot, (not that Perro would ever contribute to THAT slippery slope of societal decline.) Thanks so much Perro for your kind sentiments. I’ll be sure and pass them along!!!
(PS my high-scoring honor student made Varsity as a sophomore despite Mom being such a… that thing YOUR GF is not. HAHAHA! Schleich dich, gestinkische Hund!)
By El Perro
March 28, 2008 11:58 AM | Link to this
Ha, ha, ha, ha, ha! As far as you know, looks like you don’t know nuthin’ dude! I wait for those appointments at least a month and often longer every single time.
well, I can’t let this one go by. It’s ridiculous for a man who has never had to make a GYN appointment to say any woman can walk into an office and get a pap! This is typical of the crap that comes out of this mentally ill brain-midget all the time.
What you ladies are complaining about is the waiting time from individual doctors. That is not really a fault of the free enterprise system in any way. You are always free to change doctors to someone who is more prompt. The real culprit in y’all’s case is really the medical colleges, who purposely limit the number of medical students in order to keep the demand to see an MD artificially high. Therefore, it’s not the free enterprise system which is to blame, but the lack of free enterprise. Before you start yammering that limiting the supply is actually a part of free enterprise, think again. MDs who graduate from schools in the Carribean or other foreign countries are discriminated against by the state medical boards.
With all this brainpower on board this AM, I would think you could come up with more than sideline snipes and insults. Oh well, wrong again…..
By Truth
March 28, 2008 12:02 PM | Link to this
USinUK
I leave for one day and I come back and it is now a war of the roses.
Personally, I don’t see how women do it. A guy can have his #%&*#%& fall off and he won’t go to the doctor. Women have a hell of a problem every month, almost their entire lives. It’s even hard for them to take a leak in the woods.
And their reward is spending their lives with smelly, hairy nasty men.
Thank God for all of you.
By El Perro
March 28, 2008 12:04 PM | Link to this
I read your erudite responses (sometimes what you’re responding to) and cheer you on.
So, lozen, you’ve been reduced to the role of a side-line cheerleader now? DOn’t you work for an insurance company?? You, above all people, should know very well the fee inflation that goes along with doctors charging “Insurance prices”. In my profession for example, cash practitioners like myself charge around $35 for an office visit. The insurance ‘hos charge the insurance companies around $100-$150 for the same exact visit. Do you see the truth of the situation, or are you still hung up on what you copay fees are? With more honesty in the system, ALL fees would rapidly come down.
BTW, I agree with your assessment of USinUK. I’m glad she’s here to give me some real competition.
By USinUK
March 28, 2008 12:09 PM | Link to this
Perro -
That is my whole point. With the third-party payor system in place, fees became rapidly inflated. Fortunately, there is a movement back toward honest, pay-as-you go medical care.
Actually, it works just the opposite from the way you think - insurance companies work with hospitals and doctors to bargain down to the lowest possible price for appointments and procedures. Doctors and hospitals accept this because they are guaranteed payment.
What happened with the scare I had a few years ago - I would get a bill that would say that, because I was part of XYZ insurance, the cost for the procedure was $150. Had I not been covered by insurance (in other words - had I been paying cash), the procedure would have cost $600 or more.
So, no, the direct payment for services model REALLY doesn’t work.
Re: the don’t worry about a thing - I think that all you fine folkses who keep denigrating nationalized health care should come over here and experience it firsthand. I think that would shut your yaps mighty fast.
And, thanks for the “jewel” comment - I try to keep it civil and have reasonable, respectful discussions (I don’t always succeed, but I do try) :-) we may not agree on much outside of movies, but you seem okay to me!
By El Perro
March 28, 2008 12:11 PM | Link to this
I’ll relate your brilliant observation to all the single parents I know, especially the men and women whose spouses walked away from their marriage vows and rarely, if ever, send a child support check.
In case you forgot, I grew up in a single parent home. My mom and we kids were somehow able to scrape by without one dime of government assistance, ever. Maybe we didn’t live in the most expensive part of town (hint, hint), or have a house full of “useless crap” that we bought to make ourselves feel better (hint, hint), but we held our heads high.
PS my high-scoring honor student made Varsity as a sophomore despite Mom being such a… that thing YOUR GF is not. HAHAHA! Schleich dich, gestinkische Hund!)
You have every reason to be proud of your child. GOd bless you and your child. My point is that since the US government got in the single-parent subsidy business, the rates of single parenting has—what a surprise—quadrupled. What say you? P.S. Thanks for the compliment in German. You know how much I like it when you talk dirty!
By El Perro
March 28, 2008 12:19 PM | Link to this
So, no, the direct payment for services model REALLY doesn’t work.
USinUK—If we truly had a consumer driven system, believe me, the prices would come down more quickly. With our current mix-n-match system, it’s never going to happen. Ultimately, the insurance compani3es don’t care what the fees are. They merely serve as a clearinghouse, with their 15% profit built into the system. If you think about it, medical care is about the only industry in the US which is not consumer-driven. SO you know my qualifications, I not only spent 20+ years as a health care provider, I also studied and aced the actuarial exams in the early 1990s. In case you don’t know, the actuaries are the mathematicians who calculate insurance rates, among other duties.
we may not agree on much outside of movies, but you seem okay to me!
Hush now, you’re going to ruin my W2W rep as a total scumbag, which I’ve worked so hard to cultivate!
P.S. If you’ve never seen “The Shootist”, John Wayne’s last movie, you might want to rent it. It’s not a traditional Western, or even a tear-jerker, but you’ll walk away with more respect for The Duke when you realize that he was dying of cancer in real life when the movie was made. Without giving too much away, he portrays an aging gunfighter who is dying of cancer.
By USinUK
March 28, 2008 12:23 PM | Link to this
TRUTHIE!!!
did you see my movie rec to Perro - (I’m ashamed that I forgot one of my all-time Top Picks!!)
The Station Agent.
You will love-love-LOVE it, I promise.
Run, don’t walk.
By Truth
March 28, 2008 12:23 PM | Link to this
El Perro
My friend had major spinal surgery. She can’t take narcotics so it is Tylenol and BC Backache medication and our long walks. Her insurance which she has paid a fortune for, considering she is self employed, has now said that post-op treatments are not covered. So when she goes in for the treatments, she has negotiated the cost down to 40% of the original costs.
My question is: why can’t everyone get that 60% discount? If they can turn a profit with my friend, then they are marking up the price 60% over a reasonable profit.
We do have major problems with our medical industry. It does need an overhaul. There is no really good system in the world that is efficient and competent.
I would love to see the US set the world standard and fix this. It would mean tossing the Insurance and the pharmaceutical lobbiest into the Patomac, but would that be so bad?
By El Perro
March 28, 2008 12:26 PM | Link to this
Got to run again for a short while. In case anyone needs my crying towel, you can borrow it from carmelita.
Also, is anyone brave enough to answer my statement directed at Nat this AM? I.e. The bottom line, Nat, is that if we are going to move forward as a HUMAN race, all the finger-pointing needs to stop at some point.
If any of you bother to see through my inflammatory rhetoric on occasion, you might discover that I have the best wishes for all people in my heart and soul. To be united, we have to stop categorizing everyone in neat, little pigeonholes.
By Archie
March 28, 2008 12:26 PM | Link to this
Lastly, I hate to break it to you this way - but there is “medical tourism” in pretty much every developed country. People go to where the specialists who deal with their particular needs are - and that includes the UK, France, Spain, Sweden, etc - all countries with socialized medicine.
I know for a fact the aforementioned statements are true. Two weeks my co-worker said he was going to do just that in order to get a root canal.
By kimberly
March 28, 2008 12:29 PM | Link to this
I haven’t taken a dime of assistance either, tick bistro. That’s because (a) my daddy paid for me to go to college so I can earn a decent wage (b) I’m not too sick to work (knock wood) and (c) I’ve always been white enough for the good ol’ boys to hire. I do not claim that any of these advantages were earned by me (except the degree, yeah, I studied a lil’ bit ‘tween the keggers), but rather, I was blessed with them through no merit of my own. Therefore, instead of VILIFYING people who are less fortunate, I see them as human beings who are, like everyone, trying to get by. Does abuse of the system occur? OF COURSE it does!!! But that’s the result of negligence and poor administration. “Welfare to Work” was a big hit in the 90’s, if you can remember back that far.
The fact is, the health care system in this country is exclusionary and NOT AVAILABLE for millions of our citizens. If you’re okay with that, then just say you’re okay with poor people suffering and dying while East Cobb dermatologists buy new Jaguars every year. Just SAY that some people matter and some people don’t. You’re so smart, if you CARED enough to devise a plan that works for everyone, then you would, but you haven’t so we know where you stand.
By USinUK
March 28, 2008 12:32 PM | Link to this
Perro -
have heard of The Shootist (I remember everyone comparing Unforgiven to it) - just never got around to seeing it. I still think John Wayne’s best role was his PSA against smoking. But, that’s more because my mom died of lung cancer.
Frankly, I think the best solution is to do what we have here - nationalized health care with the option to “top up” with private insurance, if you want to. Insurance costs are ridiculously low and it enables you to queue-jump for elective procedures. Also, the other benefit is that nationalized health care will improve the competitive advantage of ALL US companies, not just manufacturing.
Lastly, a nerd joke you’ll appreciate:
What’s the difference between an actuary and an accountant??
Actuaries are WAAYYYY more outgoing - they’ll stare at YOUR shoes when they talk to you.
By NetBanker
March 28, 2008 12:43 PM | Link to this
Hey kids! ~waiving~ Hope everyone is having a good week. Mine is in the toilet and we’re starting to spiral more and more quickly.
On topic…yes, we should. I think travel restrictions to Cuba are ridiculous when we didn’t stop people from traveling to the USSR or eastern block countries even at the height of the cold war.
Off topic:
s you may have heard the Bush Administration said each and every one of us would now get a nice rebate.
We need to keep that money here in America, so the only way to keep that money here at home is to buy prostitutes and beer, since those are the only businesses still in the US.
My name is Elliot Spitzer and I approved this ad…
Hope to catch up next week, but then again I’m on the road for work 3 days. Have a happy…!
By El Perro
March 28, 2008 12:52 PM | Link to this
Not sure if my last post went through, so will repeat it:
my daddy paid for me to go to college so I can earn a decent wage
Unfortunately, I didn’t have that advantage. I paid for both my own tuition and living expenses.
I’m not too sick to work (knock wood)
I never used sickness as an excuse not to go to work.
I’ve always been white enough for the good ol’ boys to hire
Since I’m self-employed, I’m not sure how that applies to me. Does discrimination still exist?? Most likely, but a good EEOC attorney does wonders when real discrimination can be proven.
Therefore, instead of VILIFYING people who are less fortunate, I see them as human beings who are, like everyone, trying to get by. Does abuse of the system occur? OF COURSE it does!!! But that’s the result of negligence and poor administration. “Welfare to Work” was a big hit in the 90’s, if you can remember back that far.
I don’t vilify anyone, except those who aren’t willing to W-O-R-K their way out of poverty, and who feel justified in scamming the rest of us taxpayers. I most certainly do remember Work To Welfare. It was the cornerstone of Newt Gingrich’s Contract For America, which Bill Clinton tried to take credit for later. The 1970s are a bit hazy at this point, but I still remember the 90s.
The fact is, the health care system in this country is exclusionary and NOT AVAILABLE for millions of our citizens. If you’re okay with that, then just say you’re okay with poor people suffering and dying while East Cobb dermatologists buy new Jaguars every year. Just SAY that some people matter and some people don’t. You’re so smart, if you CARED enough to devise a plan that works for everyone, then you would, but you haven’t so we know where you stand.
Um, if you read my posts above, my plan is to return the US back to a true fee-for-service health care system, in which insurance resumes its proper role as a hedge against catastrophic losses. That’s the only way I know how to return honesty to the system.
BTW, thank you for posting and arguing with me. You are a very sharp cookie, who can kick the butt of any fake conservative like chuckles. You can still kick my butt, but at least I get a good shot in once in a while, no?
P.S. Sorry if this is a repeated post.
By El Perro
March 28, 2008 1:00 PM | Link to this
have heard of The Shootist (I remember everyone comparing Unforgiven to it)
No comparison to The Unforgiven in any way, form, or fashion. I rate The Unforgiven as a 5 on my movie scale, while The Shootist is a 10+.
I still think John Wayne’s best role was his PSA against smoking. But, that’s more because my mom died of lung cancer.
You’re probably right about that. Do you remember Yul Brynner doing a similar thing? His roles in “The King and I” as well as in “Westworld” were awesome.
What’s the difference between an actuary and an accountant??
Actuaries are WAAYYYY more outgoing - they’ll stare at YOUR shoes when they talk to you.
Not bad. Of course, my own perverted gaze tends to be a bit North of the shoes…..
The best actuary “joke” is this: Actuaries shoot for 10s, but settle for 6s. You might not get that one, but it is related to the scoring scale used to determine if you pass the exams or not.
By USinUK
March 28, 2008 1:02 PM | Link to this
Perro -
I never used sickness as an excuse not to go to work.
not to speak for kimberly, but I don’t think she’s talking about the sniffles. I’m pretty sure she means that she’s never had a debilitating illness that would prevent her from working (say, something that would require radiation therapy, chemo, dialysis, etc).
By El Perro
March 28, 2008 1:04 PM | Link to this
Hey Net! Let me know if you get any more info on the 6’8” transvestite from Key West. S/he was kind of cute!
By kimberly
March 28, 2008 1:06 PM | Link to this
I never used sickness as an excuse not to go to work.
Yes, customers, clients, and co-workers really appreciate people who spread the rhrinovirus, flu, and gastroenteritis with their “work ethic” instead of staying home in bed for a day or two. Sheesh.
BTW, my friend with bone cancer would LOVE to work on days she isn’t vomiting, but if she earns even ONE PENNY, the state support she divested her entire life’s accomplishments to receive (and were not enough to pay for treatment) will disappear. Nice.
By El Perro
March 28, 2008 1:18 PM | Link to this
not to speak for kimberly, but I don’t think she’s talking about the sniffles. I’m pretty sure she means that she’s never had a debilitating illness that would prevent her from working (say, something that would require radiation therapy, chemo, dialysis, etc).
BTW, my friend with bone cancer would LOVE to work on days she isn’t vomiting, but if she earns even ONE PENNY, the state support she divested her entire life’s accomplishments to receive (and were not enough to pay for treatment) will disappear. Nice.
Not to be crass, but life’s a b***, and then you die, right? I don’t know of any good solution to help those with terminal illnesses, sorry. We all will face the Grim Reaper one day, some just sooner than others. I just picked up a good book by my favorite religious author, Bart Erhman, who addresses the question of why we suffer from a Biblical perspective. He reviews the story of Job, Ecclesiastes, the Old Testament stories of God wiping out entire cities, as well as Jesus’s few utterances regarding suffering. His ultimate conclusions: The Bible never really adequately explains suffering. The only insight my Dad, who died at age 53 from kidney failure, ever gave me on the topic was this: Son, you only go down once. His only other piece of advice to me: If a Lincoln won’t do it, a Jackson will.
The bottom line is that we’ve all had close friends and family members suffer. It remains a mystery.
By El Perro
March 28, 2008 1:22 PM | Link to this
One reason I know prayer doesn’t work is that my lab report on my skin lesion came back stating “non-cancerous”. I know that a lot of you were praying that it was terminado para mi. ; > }
By kimberly
March 28, 2008 1:35 PM | Link to this
Not to be crass, but life’s a b——, and then you die, right?
Actually that was crass. I did not think the discussion was about “why do people suffer?” I thought it was about the way the American health care system is structured so as to be the best in the world for some citizens, and completely out of reach for others. But again, you’ve demonstrated your level of caring, so… you’re entitled to your own feelings. No worries for you. Yeah, it’s great to be you. Woo-hoo.
By lozen
March 28, 2008 1:47 PM | Link to this
Kimberly, right as always. I also have been blessed with advantages others don’t have: intelligence, good luck, being white, and being attractive which I realize really helped me get some jobs and opportunities. I was blessed with good health and a sound body. I didn’t have parents who paid for college but I got scholarships and grants. And like you I know not everyone has these advantages. People in my own family weren’t as lucky and didn’t have the blessings I received. I feel humbled by my good fortune (I didn’t do anything to receive these advantages) because I know so many have so much less. All I can do is try to help in any way I can. I certainly don’t shout at these people that they deserve not having health care or that they could have overcome their challenges and been successful by my standards. I don’t understand the cold hearted way some people do that, esp the ones who call themselves christians. It seems as a nation we’ve forgotten that old saw about “walking in others shoes”! Some find it easy to justify spending billions on a war but can’t stand the idea that a single mother gets welfare (usually for a short period of time). That blows my mind and always will.
By El Perro
March 28, 2008 1:47 PM | Link to this
Yeah, it’s great to be you. Woo-hoo.
Hey, I’m here on W2W today. Now what were your other two wishes?
Seriously, gotta run. Enjoyed the discussion.
By Scalia
March 28, 2008 1:50 PM | Link to this
Good points about the healthcare system. It is ridiculous. Aspirin is something ridiculous like 50 dollars if you go to the hospital.
It is absurd.
But instead of listening, people start shouting out “socialized medicine”.
By lozen
March 28, 2008 1:54 PM | Link to this
…but a good EEOC attorney does wonders when real discrimination can be proven. You make that sound easy. Kind of like getting a PAP when you walk in off the street at the last minute! Sure.
By JokeFriday
March 28, 2008 3:11 PM | Link to this
If you are a
DEMOCRAT: You have two cows. Your neighbor has none. You fell guilty for being successful. You vote people into office that put a tax on your cows, forcing you to sell one to raise money to pay the tax. The people you voted for then takes the tax money, buys a cow and gives it to your neighbor. You fell righteous. Barbara Streisand sings you a song.
REPUBLICAN: You have two cows. Your neighbor has none. So?
SOCIALIST: You have two cows. The government takes one and gives it to your neighbor. You form a cooperative to tell him how to manage his cow.
COMMUNIST: You have two cows. The government seizes both and provides you with milk. You wait in line for hours to get it. It is expensive and sour.
CAPITALISM - AMERICAN STYLE: You have two cows. You sell one, buy a bull, and build a herd of cows.
DEMOCRACY - AMERICAN STYLE: You have two cows. The government taxes you to the point you have to sell both to support a man in a foreign country who only has one cow, which was a gift from your government..
BUREAUCRACY - AMERICAN STYLE: You have two cows. The government takes them both, shoots one, milks the other, pays you for the milk, and them pours the milk down the drain.
AMERICAN CORPORATION: You have two cows. You sell one, lease it back to yourself and do an IPO on the 2nd cow. You are surprised when one cow drops dead. You spend an announcement to the analysts stating you have downsized and are reducing expenses. Your stock goes up.
FRENCH CORPORATION: You have two cows. You go on strike because you want three cows. You go to lunch. Life is good.
JAPANESE CORPORATION: You have two cows. You redesign them so they are one-tenth the size of an original cow and produce twenty times the milk. They learn to travel on unbelievable crowded trains. Most are at the top of their class at cow school.
GERMAN CORPORATION: You have two cows. You engineer them so they are all blood, drink lots of beer, give excellent quality milk, and run a hundred miles an hour. Unfortunately they also demand 13 weeks of vacation per year.
ITALIAN CORPORATION: You have two cows but you don’t know where they are. While ambling around, you see a beautiful women. You break for lunch. Life is good.
RUSSIAN CORPORATION: You have two cows. You count them and learn you have five cows. You have some more vodka. You count them again and learn you have 42 cows. You count them again and learn you have 12 cows. You stop counting cows and open another bottle of vodka. You produce your tenth, 5-year plan in the past 3 months. The Mafia shows up and takes over however many cows you really have.
TALIBAN CORPORATION: You have all the cows in Afghanistan, which are two. You don’t milk them because you cannot touch any creature’s private parts.
POLISH CORPORATION: You have two bulls. Employees are regularly maimed and killed attempting to milk them.
FLORIDA CORPORATION: You have a black cow and a brown cow. Everyone votes for the best looking one. Some of the people who like the brown one best, vote for the black one. Some people vote for both. Some people vote for neither. Some people can’t figure out how to vote at all. Finally, a bunch of guys from out-of-state tell you which is the best-looking one.
NEW YORK CORPORATION: You have fifteen million cows. You have to choose which one will be the leader of the herd, so you pick some dumb cow from Arkansas named Hillary.
By Truth
March 28, 2008 3:16 PM | Link to this
kimberly
I just can’t agree that it is the very best for some people. It is outrageously expensive and wrought with incompetence and complacency. I am fortunate that I have my health, but I hear so many horror stories about very good hospitals like St. Joe and Northside.
As I said before, I have a client that promotes medical tourism and the more I see, the more I realize that our system isn’t that good for anyone. I interviewed another patient that went to India and she said that her doctors over there spoke better English than the doctors she had here. Private room, beautiful facility, competent and caring nurses and state of the art equipment.
It’s very troubling that I am even comparing the hospitals of a third world country to the ones in Atlanta.
You know that I am over-the-edge Pro American, but our health system sucks.
By kimberly
March 28, 2008 4:05 PM | Link to this
Truth, yes, you’re right. I didn’t want to say that (or be accused of being anti-American), but yes, I avoid doctors and the need for them as much as possible because I don’t have much faith that they’re truly focused on what’s best for the patient, only for entering the right codes on the form so Blue Cross pays them. Also, “alternative” therapies and medicines are used in many places that aren’t allowed here, because the big Pharm lobbyists own the FDA. Here’s it’s all about “what pill or procedure can you get today?” Get ‘em in and out in 10 minutes. Who cares how they managed to get in this condition….
We’d all be better if we had more focus on health and healing and less on a quick fix for symptoms. Much of the time here, by the time someone actually gets to a doctor, (or scrapes up the time and money from our workaholic culture that says you’re a wussy if you call in sick), the issue is dire. Better access to regular health care would prevent the need for hospitalization for many by dealing with the underlying issues earlier on.
By Gandalf, the Grey
March 28, 2008 4:30 PM | Link to this
Jokeson Ever been to Africa? Mexico? Canada? Outside the borders? Fly to england and see what’s her name and see the world.
By JokesOn
March 28, 2008 4:50 PM | Link to this
Jokeson Ever been to Africa? Mexico? Canada? Outside the borders? Fly to england and see what’s her name and see the world.
Yep. Plus a dozen or so more. You obviously have not, besides staying in a marriott for 3 days and not leaving the hotel, since you have no respect for other countries (not continents).
If you ever lived with the people (i have) of other countries you would see what we (US) has gained. But, more importantly, you would see what we have lost. I have lived in over a dozen places outside of the US for a (minimum) of 3 months each and a maximum of 2.5 years at a couple.