AJC.com > Opinion > Woman to Woman > Archives > 2008 > March > 08 > Entry
How should government respond on home foreclosures?
Andrea Cornell Sarvady, a left-leaning columnist, writes the commentary this week and Shaunti Feldhahn, a right-leaning columnist, responds.
Commentary
“There’s plenty of blame to go around” is how my friend Jack, a loan officer at a local bank, neatly sums up the foreclosure crisis. From oblivious lenders to deceptive mortgage brokers, from overly optimistic borrowers to overly ambitious investors, many bear responsibility for our current subprime-related quagmire.
No homeowner deserves a free pass, even if caught up in the one-two punch of a bad loan and sinking house prices. Yet the capitalist maxim, buyer beware, feels especially callous when directed at hard-working folks who were manipulated into bad loans when they qualified for decent ones. Moreover, no matter how we got here, a neighborhood filled with vacancies and rotating tenants is bad for everyone.
Voluntary initiatives like Fed Chair Ben Bernanke’s recent appeal to lenders can be helpful, but more aggressive government intervention is needed to stem the tide of foreclosures. A reasonable solution backed by Senate Democrats would temporarily change the bankruptcy code, allowing qualifying families to file for Chapter 13 bankruptcy, then work with judges to modify their mortgages. Under current laws, vacation homes, ranches and farms can be restructured but not primary residences
Is this a total bailout for naive borrowers? Hardly. “They’re not going to get a free ride” explains Dan Immergluck, a Georgia Tech professor and expert on mortgage lending. Indeed, homeowners would have to prove that they’re residents, not speculative investors, who were deceived as to the terms of their loan, and that they can work out a payment plan.
Under these stringent rules only 200,000 families would qualify, yet there still remains nearly insurmountable opposition. The Mortgage Bankers Association complains that these negotiations would drive up interest rates. Not so-a study by Georgetown Law Center disputes the MBA’s claims, asserting that there would be little to no change in rates if legislation allows modifications in bankruptcy proceedings.
Many agree on changing the lending laws so that fewer people can be taken advantage of in the future. Yet for those who scrimped and saved for a down payment on a dream and honestly represented themselves in the borrowing process, buying a house should never have turned into such a nightmare. It benefits us all to keep those families in their homes.
Rebuttal
Where borrowers were truly defrauded, the government should prosecute corrupt brokers or lenders and put them in jail.
The problem is that lender fraud accounts for only a fraction of home foreclosures, and most of the broader proposals out there are compassionate but foolish. Foreclosure estimates range between 600,000 to one million this year, and most are due to standard economic shifts- or because someone gambled and lost.
If homeowners lost jobs because companies moved from the Rust Belt to the Sun Belt, that’s a fluid economy in action. Should the government really punish areas that are gaining by bailing out those that are losing steam? Or suppose one borrower prudently saved for five years for a downpayment on a reasonably-sized house, while his neighbor took a no-doc, no-downpayment, high-interest loan for a bigger house than he really needed: is it right to bail out Guy #2 now that he’s underwater? One reason our free market works is that consequences help make more-informed decisions next time.
I used to work for the Senate Banking Committee, so I contacted several conservative staff members off-the-record. They pointed out that only two-thirds of homeowners even have mortgages, and that 95% of them are paying on time! As one aide said, “What about all those people out there who made the right decision and who will profit from downturn? And why should congress try to prop-up an already inflated housing market, anyway? We need to accept the good and bad from the market.”
The government should encourage what lenders are already doing: voluntary actions like writing down underwater loans. But mandatory measures would mean the government suspending a contract between two private parties: the lender and the borrower. And as the Cato Institute’s Alan Reynolds told me, “Without secure contracts there is no security of property rights. Most of the proposed solutions are far worse than the problem, because they would restrict mortgage lending for many years while the highly-localized problem of too many overpriced houses will be largely fixed within a year or so.”
The loss of a home is a personal crisis. But we can’t afford to create a worse problem by involuntary government actions that would turn these personal crises into a national economic one.
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Comments
Commenting is now closed for this entry.
By Jen
March 9, 2008 12:36 PM | Link to this
Wow, commenting open on Sunday…
Anyway, it seems Shaunti is ingoring real research, AGAIN. Since Andrea is only talking about relief for people who were defrauded…and not people in a “personal crisis” due to “fluid economics” Shaunti’s arguments are similar to repairing a hole in the wall with peanut butter.
By divides us
March 9, 2008 3:54 PM | Link to this
Help Americans when theres all these Iraqis who need our help? Give me a break. Iraqis first, then maybe American scum. George Bush’s legacy.
By jobs dental nurse
March 9, 2008 5:58 PM | Link to this
I will not support Hillary Clinton for president I will not support Hillary Clinton for president
By Gale
March 10, 2008 8:44 AM | Link to this
Given we are sending $12 billion a month to Iraq, I don’t think we are doing near enough for the American economy. However, bailing out people and companies that made stupid or greedy decisions and then got stung is not how I would spend that money. Capitalism works if you only sign a contract when you completely understand your side of it. My ARM went up. I expected it and knew I could afford it. I calculated a payment based on one income, not the two we had when we bought. Stuff happens.
Really, does anyone think we should bail out a speculator decides he can flip homes and gets in over his head. It was a bad business decision and he should get burned or he will do it again. How about a person with a $70,000 income and four kids who thinks he can handle a $2000 a month mortgage and then can’t cover a 2% interest rate hike? What planet did he learn money management on? Why should those who exercise fiscal responsibility bail these people out? They lose their homes. I feel sad for them. But that is how a free market works.
By Lyrazel
March 10, 2008 9:28 AM | Link to this
When someone who has zero income qualifies for a 200,000 home (as many did in the Atl. region) or for a 30,000 car, it seems to me the adage: borrower beware should be listened to…as well as: loaner beware. This mess comes also from people who used their equity to buy cars, second homes, boats and re-furnish their kitchens because everyone else was doing it and banks said: do it. It comes from families with a lot of credit card debt using the equity to pay off cards to keep living beyond their means. This crisis comes because of the American TV dream of owning your own house and having all these lifestyle perks with it. Banks, home builders and home owners are not indigent and should not be bailed out by taxpayers.
By USinUK
March 10, 2008 9:51 AM | Link to this
I blame Paris Hilton. And Pimp My Ride. And Cribs.
Basically, people who are the greatest earners right now have this ludicrous idea that they should be able to have whatever they want whenever they want it. They see Paris’s clothes. They see tricked out cars. They see McMansions. They want. BOY, do they want.
But, rather than look realistically at what they make, and therefore, what they can afford - they look at what they can borrow (what’s the limit on my credit card? how big of a mortgage can I get?? how much equity can I release from my house to fund my vacation?).
Which is why the US has had a negative savings rate for the second straight year - in fact, it’s the lowest since the Depression. So, now the consumer is being squeezed on all sides - they have the least equity in their homes than anytime since the mid-40s, they have no savings, the value of their house is declining, their 401K is declining due to the equity market slowdown, there are fewer jobs (-63,000 as of Friday) and income increases aren’t keeping up with inflation.
By Archie
March 10, 2008 10:38 AM | Link to this
I don’t think the government should bail people out on these foreclosures, except when it’s known that the consumer was scammed and even then the help given should be very limited. No one is paying for my credit card mistakes. I do think the government can help the foreclosure problem by working on getting gas prices down because that’s where everyone including the economy benefits. I like Lyrazel’s comments at 9:28 am.
By Newzwyre
March 10, 2008 3:32 PM | Link to this
Saw this on Greg Mankiw’s site (yes that Greg Mankiw of “outsourcing is a net plus for the American economy” fame). See, he really does have a sense of humor!
How the Subprime Works - a true story (Rated R for Adult Language)
http://docs.google.com/TeamPresent?docid=ddp4zq7n_0cdjsr4fn&skipauth=true&pli=1
By Bluegrass Bloger
March 10, 2008 3:32 PM | Link to this
Wow, i took a half day vacation, and get to contribute this week!
I agree that there should not be a government bailout, but possibly for different reasons than most stated here…
First, let me say that I agree with the reason for all of this happening (not necessarily because of the American dream, as Lyrazel stated), but because of the way that people are trying to acheive it, as USinUK stated. I mean, I was raised that when you want something, you work hard and save up to get it (obviously within reason…its hard to save up for a house, or even a car…), you don’t go into debt to get it…it started with two income families, and then moved over into a willingness to accept debt to get what you want when you want it. It seems that in our society, there is no personal responsibility with anything, so money shouldn’t be any different.
Secondly, as Archie stated, nobody is bailing me out of my mistakes with credit cards, and what happens if those payments cause me to miss house payments?…what mistakes are worthy of government bailouts?
However, I think these bailouts will happen regardless without incentives for mortgage companies to work this out…because if someone loses their home, can their job be that far behind? And then, if they go on government assistance, there is your bailout money. So, i agree that it is in our best interest for these people to retain a home. And (take these numbers with a grain of salt, because they come from the mortgage bankers association website), they claim that over 1,000,000 mortgages have been rewritten since July 2007. This problem is much greater than some realize, and I think governmental bailout will be much costlier than many realize. Incentives for lenders to work it out are, IMO, the best option.
By lake dental clinic
March 10, 2008 4:35 PM | Link to this
I will not support Hillary Clinton for president I will not support Hillary Clinton for president
By scientology sex
March 11, 2008 10:58 AM | Link to this
I will not support Hillary Clinton for president I will not support Hillary Clinton for president
By Gandalf, the Grey
March 11, 2008 11:31 AM | Link to this
So, all those people who took out loans they couldn’t afford should get a handout? ANDI, you and your ilk are killing this country. EVER HEARD OF PERSONAL RESONSIBLITY? Some people should rent, some should own a home. You fall solidly into the renter category!
Bad Loans? If you can’t qualify for a good loan, SAVE, PAY YOUR BILLS, RAISE YOUR CREDIT SCORE, and then get a house. NOT BEFORE!
Some days I just smile at myself for cancelling my AJC subscription. No more of my money subsidizing of idiots like Andrea. (Why do they pay her anyway? Does she do something else around the office? Writing sure isn’t her forte.)
By Gandalf, the Grey
March 11, 2008 11:32 AM | Link to this
So, all those people who took out loans they couldn’t afford should get a handout? ANDI, you and your ilk are killing this country. EVER HEARD OF PERSONAL RESONSIBLITY? Some people should rent, some should own a home. You fall solidly into the renter category!
Bad Loans? If you can’t qualify for a good loan, SAVE, PAY YOUR BILLS, RAISE YOUR CREDIT SCORE, and then get a house. NOT BEFORE!
Some days I just smile at myself for cancelling my AJC subscription. No more of my money subsidizing of idiots like Andrea. (Why do they pay her anyway? Does she do something else around the office? Writing sure isn’t her forte.)
By Gandalf, the Grey
March 11, 2008 11:36 AM | Link to this
Can’t we put an international filter up and keep usinuk from posting here? She freely moved from the US, so she should STFU and get involved in her chosen country. Traiter!
By SpellChecker
March 11, 2008 12:03 PM | Link to this
USinUK is going to treat us? (French:Traiter - To treat)
or did you mean traitOr?
By Shirley U. Geste
March 11, 2008 12:30 PM | Link to this
It’d probably be more constructive if they could put an a*******hole filter on it instead so those who freely choose to be anal orifices would STFU instead.
Besides, I wasn’t aware that this was an “Americans Only” blogsite, nor has USinUK ever said she renounced her citizenship. If freely choosing to work and live in a foreign country makes you a traitor, the mercenaries from Blackwater and KBR have some e’splianin’ to do.
By USinUK
March 11, 2008 12:37 PM | Link to this
don’t feed the trolls.
By Shirley U. Geste
March 11, 2008 12:50 PM | Link to this
LOL!!! Gandalf. Trolls. Freudian slip?
By USinUK
March 11, 2008 1:13 PM | Link to this
… and Gandalf’s head just exploded …
By El Perro
March 11, 2008 1:16 PM | Link to this
Hasta luego. Todo mi amor a……
By HeeHaw
March 11, 2008 1:25 PM | Link to this
and Gandalf’s head just exploded
Hardly news, he has done that since day one here. Probably why he is so Loved.
By USinUK
March 11, 2008 1:55 PM | Link to this
Probably why he is so Loved.
… and speaking of so loved … MAN … Elliot Spitzer … talk about giving his political career a swirly. The man who could have been an AG - now, not so much.
By NetBanker
March 11, 2008 2:23 PM | Link to this
This is a tough question without my even having read the comments of the columnists. Doing nothing could have a really large impact on the overall economy. Then again, I’m highly frustrated by the poor decision making of some borrowers who are now crying for help. I don’t want to show no compassion, but at the same time I think we need to stop negating consequences through government action. It’s frustrating to think that I live below my means so that I won’t get caught short when something bad happens to me, but others have problems and the response is to have the government take money from me to bail them out? TDB (Too Damn Bad)!
By Newzwyre
March 11, 2008 3:21 PM | Link to this
NetBanker - I agree about the borrowers, but it’s interesting how few people comment about the bad decision making on the lenders part.
How many even remember that less than twenty years ago, we taxpayers gave 120-some-odd BILLION dollars to the banking industry to cover the losses cause by their poor decision making (not to mention the larceny and malfeasance!)? I don’t think it’s that far a stretch to wonder if that bail-out didn’t influence the banks willingness to chance extending similarly hich-risk loans to barely qualified borrowers.
That’s not to provide an excuse for those who were already teetering on the edge making that decision to take out a second mortgages so they could get a new car, or go on vacation, or some such. But if we are discussing extending assistance to the mortgage and bond industries (and it IS being discussed, see Bernake’s comments plus analysis here - http://globaleconomicanalysis.blogspot.com/2008/03/bernanke-asks-taxpayers-to-bail-out.html) then why would it be any more reprehensible to extend aid to individual borrowers who may also have been influenced by greed and unrealistic expectations?
By El Perro
March 11, 2008 3:25 PM | Link to this
It’s frustrating to think that I live below my means so that I won’t get caught short when something bad happens to me, but others have problems and the response is to have the government take money from me to bail them out? TDB (Too Damn Bad)!
Como estoy hablando, si no eres gay, esterai un conservadora, NetB.
By AGNFPR
March 11, 2008 4:11 PM | Link to this
Dog is now commenting in Spanish! Who said you couldn’t teach an old Dog new tricks! Welcome back!
NetB - I agree with your 2:23. I want to be compassionate. Unfortunately, I see far too many people that I am quite certain make less than me driving around in expensive vehicles, wearing the latest fashions, and owning all the best electronic gizmos. Some of them have have the audacity to cry on my shoulder about how they are going through tough financial times.
Newswyre - I don’t want to bail out the lenders either. They made their bed, let them lie in it. Government bailouts, IMO, will only encourage the behaviors that got us in the mess in the first place.
By Gandalf, the Grey
March 12, 2008 9:44 AM | Link to this
Shirley, I detect penis envy.
By USinUK
March 12, 2008 9:46 AM | Link to this
dangitall El Parro … I had the song Eso Beso (beso me mucho) going through my head all day yesterday, thanks to you!!!
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March 12, 2008 10:04 AM | Link to this
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By Gandalf, the Grey
March 12, 2008 10:23 AM | Link to this
Do tell me…am I more hated that the spammers?
By Shirley U. Geste
March 12, 2008 11:31 AM | Link to this
Gandalf, what’s to envy? Men may have the penises, but women have half the money and all the vaginas.
@10:23 - yes. but the spammers are more annoying.
By Obama/Farrakhan08
March 12, 2008 11:46 AM | Link to this
Looking forward to the election
By Obama/Farrakhan08
March 12, 2008 11:50 AM | Link to this
Shirley U. Geste
Oh yes. There is nothing about men that women envy. That’s why the more militant a feminist woman is, the more she tries to look and act like a man.
By Shirley U. Geste
March 12, 2008 1:01 PM | Link to this
ah, yes. Those hairy-legged, crew-cut, man-hating, tobacco chewing, butch/lesbian feminists. Haven’t seen one those since, oh, the mid 1970’s. LOL!! (Do men really still believe that crap?)
get over yourself, Gandalf. So what, you have a penis. Nobody cares! Or maybe that’s where all your hostility comes from. What’s a’matter Gandy? Nobody taking Mr. Winky seriously these days? ROTFLMAO!!
By USinUK
March 12, 2008 1:26 PM | Link to this
There is nothing about men that women envy.
only their ability to do sound effects. (can’t do the drop-of-water-by-tapping-the-side-of-your-cheek-thing … always wished I could … I think it’s linked to the Y choromosome)
otherwise, what’s to envy?
By JokesOn
March 12, 2008 1:36 PM | Link to this
otherwise, what’s to envy?
We do get to snuggle up you ladies;)
By Obama/Farrakhan08
March 12, 2008 1:58 PM | Link to this
Shirley U. Geste
ah, yes. Those hairy-legged, crew-cut, man-hating, tobacco chewing, butch/lesbian feminists. Haven’t seen one those since, oh, the mid 1970’s. LOL!! (Do men really still believe that crap?)
Do we believe that crap? Take a walk through downtown Decatur. Take a walk through East Atlanta or Little Five. You will see plenty of hard cores like you describe, many of them have fallen into the Harley/Davidson riding lemmings. They have a lipstick lesbian at their side. Most people say that they are the “man” of the two. Nuff said.
We all love you. Don’t get me wrong. But we love you for being women, not men.
By Shirley U. Geste
March 12, 2008 2:59 PM | Link to this
They have a lipstick lesbian at their side. Most people say that they are the “man” of the two. Nuff said.- We all love you. Don’t get me wrong. But we love you for being women, not men.
So let me get this straight. You really believe that all feminists are (unattractive) butch lesbians?! That the only reason one could possibly be a “hard-core” believer in the equality of the sexes is because we really, really wish we had penises?!!! REALLY?
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA~(gasp)~ HAHAHAHAHAHAHAH~(wheeze)~HEEHEEHEEHEEHEEE—-woooooo! (wiping tears) you had me goin’ there for a minute!
By USinUK
March 12, 2008 3:06 PM | Link to this
Jokes -
We do get to snuggle up you ladies;)
that’s not a big selling point for me … ;-)
By USinUK
March 12, 2008 3:24 PM | Link to this
Shirley -
You really believe that all feminists are (unattractive) butch lesbians?!
I always get a kick out of guys who can’t quite wrap their little minds around the difference between lesbianism and feminism. Me, I’m a loud and proud feminist … with hubby, smooth legs, a cutie-pie haircut and painted toesies in the summer …
do you think that’ll make O/F 08’s head e’splode??
By Gandalf, the Grey
March 13, 2008 9:30 AM | Link to this
well, I care, but you have valid points Shirley..
By Gandalf, the Grey
March 13, 2008 9:32 AM | Link to this
Shirley, it isn’t called Mr. Winky, it is called he that cannot be ignored, or “Mr Winky goes to Washington and is mistaken for the Washington Monument”. :-)
By Obama/Farrakhan08
March 13, 2008 10:29 AM | Link to this
Shirley U. Geste
So let me get this straight. You really believe that all feminists are (unattractive) butch lesbians?!
No, you are not getting that straight. YOU are the one that brought up the bull d*kes, not me. I just said that the more feminist a woman is, the more she tries to look like a man. All men don’t look like overweight truck drivers or bikers.
That the only reason one could possibly be a “hard-core” believer in the equality of the sexes is because we really, really wish we had penises?!!! REALLY?
You are asking me to tell you why feminist women want to look like men. I’m a man so I don’t know how a woman’s mind works. But I can look at most feminist women and see the short, cropped hair, the tatoos and the absence of anything that would hint that there wasn’t a penis in those sloppy looking jeans.
If they aren’t trying to look like men, tell me what they are doing. I know that the most powerful women in the world look like women and the most frustrated women in the world try to look like men. Penis envy? You can buy a penis at any adult toy store. It’s not about the penis, it’s about the power.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA~(gasp)~ HAHAHAHAHAHAHAH~(wheeze)~HEEHEEHEEHEEHEEE—-woooooo! (wiping tears) you had me goin’ there for a minute!
Maybe just another line or two of HAHAs will make you feel better about looking like such a fool for claiming that bull d*kes haven’t been around since the 70s.
By Mara
March 13, 2008 12:27 PM | Link to this
Hi y’all. Just stopping by for a nanosec…
Gandalf, do you actually know any feminists? You sound like the kind of person who, after approaching a woman and being refused, walks away muttering “effing d**…”
You see, like USinUK, I’m also a married, smooth-legged, well-endowed, make-up wearing feminist. And I’ve certainly never wanted to be a man, though I have always wanted equal pay for equal work and equal opportunities in education, employment, and advancement. I’ve always believed that men could be just as stupid and shallow as women, that intelligence doesn’t depend on ones genitalia, and that talent knows no gender. In other words…I’m a loud, proud, vocal feminist. In a pretty spring dress.
Now explain that!
By El Perro
March 13, 2008 1:05 PM | Link to this
dangitall El Parro … I had the song Eso Beso (beso me mucho) going through my head all day yesterday, thanks to you!!!
Thanks for the shout, USinUK. You must be a fan of Sabado Gigante if you know the words to Eso Beso. I thought it would be fun to blog a little in Spanish, but the W2W censors removed my comments already. Kind of ironic since they haven’t removed any of the spam…..Gotta keep the priorities straight, right??
I do want to pass along a compliment to you, USinUK. Even though your politics are apparently as far left as some of the other women posters here, you remain sociable and open to hearing other points of view. For that reason, you have my full respect. I think some of the other (unnamed) women posters could learn a lot from you.
By Obama/Farrakhan08
March 13, 2008 1:07 PM | Link to this
Mara
Try wearing that pretty spring dress to a feminist rally and see how you are treated. Al women want to be treated fairly, but does that make you a feminist? I didn’t make the rules that say that the strong armed, tatooed biker/truck driver wanna-be women are considered to be the feminist.
By Obama/Farrakhan08
March 13, 2008 1:11 PM | Link to this
Mara
Oh yea, I haven’t been turned down since Middle School. I’m not a great looking guy, but I am smart enough to recognize who is interested and who isn’t.
By El Perro
March 13, 2008 1:14 PM | Link to this
As far as Andrea’s drivel this week about innocent victim borrowers being “manipulated” into purchasing homes they couldn’t afford, give me a F-ing break. I’m sorry, but I know too many of these idiots personally, people who drive expensive cars and live in expensive homes while being only one paycheck away from losing it all. I’ve got plenty of money in the bank, but continue to choose to live in my 1100 s.f. home with a mortgage payment less than $700 per month. I don’t feel like I owe a single dime of my money to any of these idiots. Ditto for any of you on board who think that somehow I should pay for your healthcare needs. Get your hand out of my pocket, will you?
By El Perro
March 13, 2008 1:23 PM | Link to this
I long for the day when we get a few politicians who have actually read the Constitution and who agree with its principles. The only reason to collect tax monies is to pay for infrastructures which benefit all of us, such as the military and roads. Although public education is not specifically mentioned in the Constitution, I do support the building of schools. But that’s about it. Everything else is crap in my not-so-humble opinion.
By El Perro
March 13, 2008 1:39 PM | Link to this
You sound like the kind of person who, after approaching a woman and being refused, walks away muttering “effing d…”
Personally, I’ve switched to dating latino women only. If I’m going to have to listen to all the constant whining, I figure I might as well get some good gatita out of it.
By Scalia
March 13, 2008 1:40 PM | Link to this
I miss all of the old posters. What happened to JBM, The72John, Randy, Zack, Renee, Kimberly, Lozen, Whiley, and even now Chuck only posts occasionally here?
By El Perro
March 13, 2008 1:52 PM | Link to this
I have always wanted equal pay for equal work and equal opportunities in education, employment, and advancement.
BTW, Mara, you might want to pick up a copy of Thomas Sowell’s newest book in which he explodes the MYTH that women do not receive equal work for equal pay. For example, it remains true that women executives often receive less compensation than their male counterparts. However, the WHOLE TRUTH is that the male executives work on average 10 hours more each week. I sincerely hope one day that you learn to distinguish between the TRUTH and the WHOLE TRUTH. Big difference between the two.
By Mara
March 13, 2008 1:53 PM | Link to this
Al women want to be treated fairly, but does that make you a feminist?
yes, it does. Gender equality IS feminism. Like the word “liberal”, it’s meaning has been so twisted that many women don’t believe they’re feminists because they don’t want to be men, they don’t want to look like men, they don’t hate men, they shave their legs, wear make-up, and like to be treated “like a lady”.
Try wearing that pretty spring dress to a feminist rally and see how you are treated
That’s funny, last August when I went down to Georgia Tech for the Womens Equality Day celebration nobody seemed offended by my sundress and strappy sandals. There were a lot of people there but you know what? Not one of them spit at me, threatened me, or was rude to me. Some of them were even wearing nice clothes and make-up.
By Copyleft
March 13, 2008 2:01 PM | Link to this
I believe the “Dog” poster drove most of them away out of sheer boredom, and “OtherJack” has made things similarly unpleasant.
By Mara
March 13, 2008 2:25 PM | Link to this
*What happened to…”
the beginning of the end was Dog/Bruno/etc., then came that abusive poster with the thousand and one blognames, and finally, “The Other Jack” shows up to complete the job. The snide, ugly, insulting, abusive, comments and misreprestations-of-fact got to be too much for most of us.
It used to be pretty fun posting here. We may not have always agreed, and discussions sometimes got pretty heated (even insulting at times) but we were never mean…and ugly…to each other as a matter of course.
If you look through the archives for the last six months or so, you’ll see what happened.
Anyhooo…kisses to the tattered remains of the neighborhood. Later, taters.
By Chilao
March 13, 2008 3:00 PM | Link to this
Yeah, it was nice while it lasted, guys, but that ended awhile back now, didn’t it? (rhetorical..LOL)
and yes, I WAS “Mr Rogers” LMAO
By MrRogers
March 13, 2008 3:01 PM | Link to this
There goes the neighborhood.
By Obama/Farrakhan08
March 13, 2008 3:23 PM | Link to this
Mara
Yes, it was just the conservatives that caused the decline of the forum. The constantly changing named idiot liberal who was more than ready to throw out names and insults toward anyone who did not tow the liberal line had nothing to do with it.
Niether did copyleft who called almost every conservative who visited, a racist was never an issue. People liked to be called unfounded names. And JokesOn’s constant flaming war against anyone who dared to stand up to him was sooooo refreshing.
And lozin, what a delightful person who loved to talk about poking others for fun.
It’s funny that you think that it was conservatives that caused the declining membership. The conservatives just started returning the insults, but it was soooo easy for the nice little liberal angels to just say: Later, taters, and then whine about the evil conservatives.
The declining membership was caused by self righteous, abusive liberals who could dish it out but folded when it was returned.
By f(x) = 36x^2
March 13, 2008 3:37 PM | Link to this
oh look, it’s “The Other Obama”.
By El Perro
March 14, 2008 8:45 AM | Link to this
It’s funny that you think that it was conservatives that caused the declining membership. The conservatives just started returning the insults, but it was soooo easy for the nice little liberal angels to just say: Later, taters, and then whine about the evil conservatives.
Other Obama: Just be glad that you were wise enough not to reveal any personal info on this site. I’ve had to endure my home address being published by a couple of unnamed pieces of sh-it along with receiving threatening emails on a regular basis from mentally imbalanced people who can’t seem to separate fantasy from reality.
The bottom line is that while liberals and right-wing religious wackos talk a big game about compassion, in the end they are all the same: Small-minded, selfish lowlifes who love to whine and complain and claim that nothing is ever THEIR fault. The only exceptions I’ve found here on W2W are Archie, USinUK, NetB, and JokesOn, who, although they identify themselves as liberals, appear to be decent people who I would welcome in my home anytime.
I think the biggest reason it’s a slow week on the blog is the fact that Andrea was stupid enough to advance a point of view that even the most idiotic liberals can’t get behind: the idea that responsible homeowners who live within or below their means should somehow pay for the deadbeats who bought houses that they couldn’t afford.
By El Perro
March 14, 2008 8:58 AM | Link to this
Personally, I think the upcoming election will be a nice referendum on where we stand as a people. On the Republican side we have John McCain—a decent, honorable man who risked his life in service to his country, who espouses self-reliance and adherence to the Constitution. On the Democratic side, we have two complete pieces of sh-it: Hillary, the whining crook, and Obama, the whining racist, who both want to take away the money that hard-working, honest, self-reliant people like me earned 1 dollar at a time and give it to all the losers who are too lazy to work more than 40 hours a week and who fritter away what they do make on BS.
Out of curiosity, have you heard some of the speeches that Obama’s wife has been making lately about how UNFAIR it was that she and her husband had to actually PAY BACK the money they borrowed to attend college??? People like her make me sick to my stomach.
By WWIII_Starter
March 14, 2008 9:34 AM | Link to this
Let’s start World War III - Vote John McCain.
By KettleBlack
March 14, 2008 9:36 AM | Link to this
mentally unbalanced
By USinUK
March 14, 2008 9:52 AM | Link to this
El Parro -
I do want to pass along a compliment to you, USinUK. Even though your politics are apparently as far left as some of the other women posters here, you remain sociable and open to hearing other points of view. For that reason, you have my full respect.
aw - thanks! Actually, while I’m definitely left of center, I don’t think I’m far left - there are P-Lently of things I’m pretty darned conservative about (helloooooo jailtime for criminals!). While I don’t think this forum is to totally change each others’ minds, I do think it’s great for maybe explaining why we have the opinions we have - and, out of that, fostering a little understanding on both sides of the aisle.
as far as Eso Beso - I love-love-LOVE the Diana Krall version (and would kill for her voice!)
By Obama/Farrakhan08
March 14, 2008 10:02 AM | Link to this
El Perro
There are mentally retarded people from both parties. This morning, WWll Starter and kettleblack would be the idiot liberal who was more than ready to throw out names and insults toward anyone who did not tow the liberal line. And of course they are still here, still lurking, ready to throw out insults, but lacking the IQ to actually make a point.
Sorry about your problems with a troll. I have heard of some crazy things happening to people who gave out too much information.
The problem with the internet is the same problem we have for voting: we don’t have intelligence or educational requirements.
By Obama/Farrakhan08
March 14, 2008 10:17 AM | Link to this
El Parro
The only good thing about the election, so far is that slightly over half the left is now seeing how slimy the Clintons are. Republicans have known this for 20 years, but liberals are shocked at how sleazy the Clintons can be.
I was impressed with Obama until the deal about his preacher came out. Liberals try to stick McCain whenever a nut endorses him, but the big difference is that he didn’t attend the nut’s church most of his adult life.
Some Black Churches are just a platform for racist leaders to pass along hate and racism. There is absolutely no doubt that Obama’s preacher is exactly that: a racist.
All of Obama’s work to avoid the discussion of race runs very thin when a person hears a few minutes of his minister’s preaching.
We have three choices, a decorated and courageous fighter pilot, a racist slum lord lawyer or a Clinton.
By Obama/Farrakhan08
March 14, 2008 10:21 AM | Link to this
El Parro
Obama’s wife is like his minister: Obama is pretending to be something he isn’t, but his wife and his preacher keep telling on him.
By chuck
March 14, 2008 10:29 AM | Link to this
Scalia, I think that there are a number of reasons why it has slowed down a good bit. First, the topics have gotten even more ridiculously insipid and predictable over the last few months. A month or so ago I predicted that the next column would be about Hillary crying, and sure enough, there it was.
Second, there are some people who blog who are just irrational to begin with. A few people push their buttons for fun or to watch the fireworks, but then those irrational people go WAAAAAAAY over the line. We have a couple of people who have blogged here in the last year who have “multiple personalities disorder”. One day they have a rational, or nearly so, discussion and the next day when they are off of their meds they lose it and start ranting and raving. Some of the more sensitive people on the blog really can’t handle the vitriole that comes from these loonies that blog here.
Third, some people take things way too personally. They forget that with the exception of Brudog, we don’t know each other at all. We only see the sides of each other that we choose to show here on the blog. USinUK, Mara, JBM and I disagree about most things, but I think we would probably get along if we worked in the same building. I even think that TOJ and jokeson would probably get along in real life had they not started attacking each other. Based on what they have written in their blogs, they actually have some things in common. On the anonymous web it is easy to both give and take offense. Some people don’t have what I call, the ability to self edit. They say things here that I’m sure they would never say if they were having these discussions in person. While I would not change the message, I would most certainly tone down the rhetoric if I was having these discussions in person.
While I can’t speak for all of the “conservatives” on the blog here, I will say that I get a little tired of people like copyleft and a few others who show up and drop a little personal attack bomblet without posting anything of substance or telling us what they think the policy should be. They don’t offer solutions but they do offer lots of criticism to those who do. Again, though some of us have the ability to brush aside those little meaningless attacks, others take them personally and blow up at the attacker. I choose to just put them in their place with facts most of the time and move on. I prefer to have a discussion of the issues, but I will mix it up when the situation calls for it.
4th, I think it has slowed down because some people figured out that with the econmy slowing down they might be a little more expendable at work and better start being more productive. For me, It depends on what I’m doing. This post was started at about 8:30. I sit down and write a little at a time based on how hands on I need to be at that moment. If my students are taking a test or watching a film, I have a little more time than days when I’m giving direct instruction for long periods, so it just depends.
Anyway, that’s my take on your post.
By Obama/Farrakhan08
March 14, 2008 11:03 AM | Link to this
Chuck
This is a post by Mara, posted yesterday: By Mara
Gandalf, do you actually know any feminists? You sound like the kind of person who, after approaching a woman and being refused, walks away muttering “effing d…”**
This is one of her standard responses. It is insulting and rude. But I responded without the insults or the rudeness until she was frustrated with my answers so she claimed the “abusive posters” defense and ran away.
It is standard fair for most liberals here. They love to insult others and twist what was said, but try to stage a logical argument to their posts and they run crying.
I agree that the subjects that the ajc are presenting are lame. But after all, it is the ajc.
By f(x) = 36x^2
March 14, 2008 11:25 AM | Link to this
Yet again, we seem to have problems with self-realization.
This is one of her standard responses. It is insulting and rude. But I responded without the insults or the rudeness until she was frustrated with my answers so she claimed the “abusive posters” defense and ran away.
And earlier from the same poster…
Can’t we put an international filter up and keep usinuk from posting here? She freely moved from the US, so she should STFU and get involved in her chosen country. Traiter!
By Copyleft
March 14, 2008 11:39 AM | Link to this
Farrakhan, calling your personal opinions “logic” doesn’t make it true.
Over on the OpinionTalk section, there’s a right-wing loon loudly declaring that “All liberals are America-hating commies, and here’s the proof: John Kerry and Jack Murtha said some stuff I didn’t like.”
Do you see how that doesn’t “prove” anything, except the intellectual shallowness of the one making the claim?
By chuck
March 14, 2008 11:40 AM | Link to this
TOJ, I have to say that before this blog degenerated into the mess it is today, Mara typically posted well thought out arguments and position statements. The recent silliness that has taken over has ruined that kind of thoughtful debate on the topic of the week or ANY topic. She is right that we don’t have that kind of debate anymore, though, it appears that she did not blame CONSERVATIVES for the downturn on the blog, but rather, she blamed you and Brudog.
I don’t know that I agree with that assessment completely. Your posts are a little short-tempered at times, but I don’t think that they would have run anyone off had it not been for the stylized rantings of that other poster who came before you. Even HIS postings were not that bad. The problem was not in the content of his posts so much as with the volume of them. It was worse than fighting the spam. AND, usually he was talking to himself. They were horribly pedantic for a long period of time and it made it very difficult to carry on a conversation here. I have to say that for the most part, he has gotten over his infatuation with himself and his posts are at least an attempt to play nicely now. It’s amazing what those psychotropic medications can do.
In hindsight, had we all just ignored him he would have changed much earlier. I think there is probably enough blame to go around for all of us in bringing about the sad demise of this blog. I don’t know if it can be revived. I hope so, but it won’t be the end of the world either way. In any event, NOBODY is forced to blog here so to all of us…if we don’t like it here we can either change it or go somewhere else to amaze people with our grasp of the issues and astounding intellects.
By El Perro
March 14, 2008 11:43 AM | Link to this
Hey chuck—Thanks for the big laugh this AM about what a great guy you are…..
By El Perro
March 14, 2008 11:51 AM | Link to this
This is one of her standard responses. It is insulting and rude. But I responded without the insults or the rudeness until she was frustrated with my answers so she claimed the “abusive posters” defense and ran away.
I don’t know how long you’ve been hanging around the blog, Other Obama, but the hypocrisy from the so-called compassionate, progressive-thinking liberals on this blog from people like Mara, lozen, and kimberly has been a true disappointment to me. All three of them have used extremely foul language on a regular basis including calling men pr-icks, bragging about the size of their t** and sexual abilities, using the F word alomst daily, etc., all without ONE PEEP of criticism from their liberal brothers and sisters. But, the minute I feel free to follow their lead and brag about my prowess in the sack, then I’m nothing more than a scumbag.
By Obama/Farrakhan08
March 14, 2008 11:52 AM | Link to this
f(x) = 36x^2
from the same poster?
You are not even in touch with reality.
By El Gato
March 14, 2008 11:55 AM | Link to this
Hey Perro, thanks for the big laughs this week when you complained of being victimized in a personal way by other posters here.
By El Perro
March 14, 2008 12:02 PM | Link to this
As for mental issues, I have been very open about the fact that I was in very bad shape emotionally and even physically when I came to this blog. That kind of thing tends to happen when 20+ years of hard, honest work is taken away from you by crooks and when you find out that your local police department is on the take. Toss in numerous death threats because I DARED to insist that the police enforce the law, and I think the best of us might crumble a little.
The good news is that I’ve got myself together again. I’ve been completely sober for a few months now, I’m in the process of getting back into business, and I believe that I have found my life partner. She’s a beautiful, respectable lady who was born in the Dominican Republic, who was raised in Italy, speaks three languages and has a degree in architecture. And her skin is a beautiful, beautiful brown color.
Sadly, most of you here have only seen me at my worst. I have to live with that, and that’s hard because I’ve always enjoyed a sterling reputation in the community. I give JokesOn a lot of credit for saving my bacon though we’ve never met in person. He knows what despair and hard times are, and he didn’t give up on me.
By chuck
March 14, 2008 12:03 PM | Link to this
Any time Bruce…now what was that address again?
By El Perro
March 14, 2008 12:05 PM | Link to this
Hey Perro, thanks for the big laughs this week when you complained of being victimized in a personal way by other posters here.
Hey gato—I hope one day you can learn the difference between flaming someone on a blog and threatening their well-being in real life. When you figure it out, let chuck know. Apparently he doesn’t understand the difference either.
Tell us again what a fine Christian you are, chuck.
By Obama/Farrakhan08
March 14, 2008 12:06 PM | Link to this
Copyleft
And you, like always, first put in a little jab. But whether or not you consider it your brand of truth, it was not attacking her or insulting toward her.
I have posted on blogs since the late 90s and have seen liberal posters make fun of conservatives for grieving over the death of a child. I have seen them make fun of conservatives for having terminal cancer and I have seen liberal trolls send letters to employees pointing to a specific post that the conservative had not written. And I have seen you make very serious accusations toward others that you could not back up.
Pointing out an abusive conservative is walking on incredibly thin ice for any liberal, but for you to say anything about what anybody posts is hypocrisy at it’s worst.
By El Perro
March 14, 2008 12:12 PM | Link to this
Any time Bruce…now what was that address again?
I’m so glad that you have such a high opinion of yourself, chuck, because most everyone else here has seen what a total piece of sh-it you are with your self-righteous blather. You better start praying and repenting fast, bro, because an eternity in hell is a long, long time.
By chuck
March 14, 2008 12:14 PM | Link to this
You will notice Bruce that I did give you your due as to the changes you have made in your blogs.
By f(x) = 36x^2
March 14, 2008 12:19 PM | Link to this
You are not even in touch with reality.
Sigh.
I realize that all the names get confusing, but you just posted…
Gandalf, do you actually know any feminists? You sound like the kind of person who, after approaching a woman and being refused, walks away muttering “effing d…”
This is one of her standard responses. It is insulting and rude. But I responded without the insults or the rudeness until she was frustrated with my answers so she claimed the “abusive posters” defense and ran away.
And seriously, your tone isn’t that hard to detect.
One day, TOJ/Obama/Gandalf/Whatever-you-call-yourself-today, you’ll realize that people don’ dislike you because you are a conservative, they dislike you because you are a jerk.
By El Perro
March 14, 2008 12:21 PM | Link to this
You will notice Bruce that I did give you your due as to the changes you have made in your blogs.
And I’ll be happy to give you your due if you ever do decide to try to grow as a person, chuck.
By Obama/Farrakhan08
March 14, 2008 12:22 PM | Link to this
El Perro
Sorry you had the issues with alcohol. Good luck to you. The only drug more addictive is nicotine.
I have seen the attacks by the liberal women you listed and I have also seen the compassion of USinUK, even though I, like you have been amazed that even with her, the sides taken on the issues of abuse, is always along party lines at least for progressives.
I have been on blogs where conservatives gang up on liberals, but on here I have only seen the opposite. If anyone says anything about it, the same women you listed that run away screaming abuse are the first to try and claim the conservatives are painting themselves as victims.
Mara’s behavior yesterday is standard fair. She comes on like a bull in a China shop, looking for reasons to insult, but when others will not stoop to her level and keep offering logical and intelligent responses, she runs away whining about how much better the forum used to be. As soon as the subject is brought up, several others will chime in, talking about the good old days.
It’s a weekly thing.
By Monica
March 14, 2008 12:28 PM | Link to this
Wow, Chilao, you were Mr. Rogers? All this time I thought it was the 72 John!
As for me, posting time gets shorter this time of year - getting ready for all the standardized tests.
Also, I grow weary of reading about where I can buy viagra and pain medication, especially when I don’t need either.
Oh, and hello to all. :)
By Obama/Farrakhan08
March 14, 2008 12:28 PM | Link to this
f(x) = 36x^2
You are the jerk.
You are always the jerk.
It defines you.
You are the one that resorted to name calling, aren’t you.
It os always the case that you are one of the slime that lurk always waiting on a reason to insult. Today is like all the other days. You offer no intelligent debate, just this same asdolescent crap.
That’s why you are usually ignored.
By El Perro
March 14, 2008 12:33 PM | Link to this
Well, I’m not here to hate anyone, liberal or otherwise. I do enjoy hearing other points of view when presented in a fair way, without the emotional, hateful overtones. I do agree with chuck that Mara used to be a little better.
Out of curiosity, did anyone hear Sean Hannity’s radio program on Wednesday afternoon when he was discussing the New York Gov’s infidelity? Ol’ meany Sean, the hateful conservative, entertained several calls from women whose husbands had cheated on them. His level of compassion and honesty in letting them tell their stories brought a real lump to my throat.
By El Perro
March 14, 2008 12:41 PM | Link to this
Also, I grow weary of reading about where I can buy viagra and pain medication, especially when I don’t need either.
Hey Monica—Hope all is well with you and your family. For what it’s worth, you are one of the other posters who has my full respect.
It is pretty insane that the powers-to-be here on W2W can’t figure out how to stop the spam. As far as I know, none of the other blogs have that problem. I can understand that you don’t need viagra (nor you hubby, since he’s with a hoty like you), but wouldn’t some pain meds come in handy after a long day at school?? ; > }
BTW, chuck, I do give you credit for being a faithful husband and a good teacher.
By f(x) = 36x^2
March 14, 2008 12:51 PM | Link to this
Think what you wish, TOJ. Your sole contribution to this blog has been to scream about how evil all liberals are. You do nothing but make gross over-generalizations about people and groups, yet when someone dares to make a generalization that seems to include you, you rant about how they don’t know you or that group and so they have no business telling you what you believe. You attack everyone at the drop of a hat, and then make snide comments about others being thin-skinned.
Yes, I called you a jerk. You ARE a jerk. Sorry if that hurts your feelings, but given that you have insulted just about every single person on this blog over and over and called people more names than I can count, you have absolutely no moral highground when it comes to name-calling.
I realize that nothing I say will penetrate the thick wall of self-delusion that you have built around yourself. I don’t really care. Please, keep your promise from last week and GO AWAY.
And I’ve been posting on this blog for far, far longer than you, sir.
By El Perro
March 14, 2008 1:00 PM | Link to this
Well gotta run, I’ve got a few clients to see this afternoon. It’s pretty amazing to me that they’re still calling me after being out of business for more than 2 1/2 years.
It’s really a shame to me that there aren’t more honest chiros around. All of you guys who have to sit in a chair all day at work at a computer are suffering greatly. The distorted posture which sitting in a chair creates has many, many harmful effects on the body, including diminished breathing capacity which leads to a shortened lifespan.
If any of you have been brave enough to try chiropractic care, I strongly recommend that you INSIST that your doctor go to the website bodyzone.com and see what Dr. Weiniger has to say about chronically distorted posture. There are sets of specific exercises which can help reverse the damage which he presents in his new book “Stand Taller, Live Longer”. If you don’t do anything else, PLEASE, PLEASE consider buying an ergonomically designed chair from the Relax-the-Back store. They are relatively expensive (around $1500), but can make all the difference between suffering all day and feeling ok. For me, you can’t put a price on misery. I think the chairs are a bargain when you consider how much they can change your life.
By Obama/Farrakhan08
March 14, 2008 1:05 PM | Link to this
f(x) = 36x^2
Hurts my feelings? What? Are you 9 years old. I don’t know you and you don’t know me.
Grow up. But I did enjoy the latest of your rants about how horrible people are that disagree with you. I expected it.
By El Perro
March 14, 2008 1:09 PM | Link to this
Mi amor a todos…….
By Obama/Farrakhan08
March 14, 2008 1:16 PM | Link to this
El Perro
I’m sure there are some very good chiropractic specialists out there, but several years ago, I found out that Shepherd Center averages having one or two people at a time that have had their spinal column broken by a chiropractic specialist.
I remember when chiropractic colleges advertised on late night TV with the truck driving schools and the medical billing colleges.
Truck driver? Spinal doctor? Truck driver? Spinal doctor?
I’ll pass.
The chairs you are talking about are fantastic. They are expensive, but they really really work.
By Obama/Farrakhan08
March 14, 2008 1:18 PM | Link to this
El Perro
Via con Dios.
By El Perro
March 14, 2008 1:29 PM | Link to this
I found out that Shepherd Center averages having one or two people at a time that have had their spinal column broken by a chiropractic specialist.
Since you have presented yourself as a man of facts, Other Obama, I sincerely hope that you learn the truth about the safety and effectiveness of chiropractic care vs. medical care for back problems. For starters, you might want to compare our rates for malpractice. I carry $3,000,000 liability limits which costs me less than $1000 per year in premiums. The same liability limits for the good doctors over at Shepherd cost them about $80,000. You do the math.
By Obama/Farrakhan08
March 14, 2008 1:45 PM | Link to this
El Perro
I’m sure you are very good at what you do.
I ride a bike and work out. I am rarely sore or have a problem with movement and I am really old. I have friends that go to chiropractors and every few weeks they get so sore and stiff and unless they go to their chiropractors, they are miserable. They all say they were never this sore or tight before they started going to chiropractors.
They love their visits and say they feel like a million dollars for about two hours and then it is just a matter of waiting until everything tightens up.
That sounds like an expensive habit. Like I said: more power to you, but I’ll pass.
By Obama/Farrakhan08
March 14, 2008 1:50 PM | Link to this
f(x) = 36x^2
I have a plane to catch, but I would like to offer this:
It is Friday. This blog has been open since Sunday.
Scroll up the page and see how many posts that you have offered that have NOT been a personal attack.
And you call me a jerk.
By El Leopard
March 14, 2008 1:56 PM | Link to this
I changed my spots, I swear! I DID! I DID! These are totally not the same spots. They are different spots in different places. I swear!
By chuck
March 14, 2008 2:06 PM | Link to this
El Chilao, El funnyo
By JokeDay
March 14, 2008 2:46 PM | Link to this
African elephant went rip-roaring through the jungle, and wanted to let everyone know he was the meanest/baddest thing in the jungle.
Elephant went up to a lion, ripped a tree out of the ground, threw it down in front of the lion, peered down at the lion demanding “Why aren’t you big and strong like I am?”. The lion just slunk away.
Elephant went up to a cape horn buffalo, ripped a tree out of the ground, threw it down in front of the cape horn buffalo, peered down at the cape horn buffalo demanding “Why aren’t you big and strong like I am?”. The cape horn buffalo just cantered off.
Elephant when through many other animals of the jungle, and proved he was the meanest/baddest thing in the forest.
Finally the elephant came to a mouse, and the elephant ripped a bush out of the ground, threw it down in front of the mouse and demanded “Why aren’t you big and strong like I am?”.
The mouse meekly looked up at the big ole elephant and replied “I’ve been sick”.
By chuck
March 14, 2008 3:00 PM | Link to this
Alright, I’ll add one before I go:
Cowboys secret…
A tough old cowboy once counseled his grandson that if he wanted to live a long life, the secret was to sprinkle a little gunpowder on his oatmeal every morning.
The grandson did this religiously and he lived to the age of 93.
When he died, he left 14 children, 28 grandchildren, 35 great grandchildren and a fifteen foot hole in the wall of the crematorium.
By Truth
March 14, 2008 4:03 PM | Link to this
Great story about Obama’s preacher:
http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/story?id=4443788&page=1
And that is not a story from FOX News. It’s ABC.
Has the democrats finally ran a candidate that is so racist and so anti-American that even the mainstream media will tell the truth about it?
By Archie
March 14, 2008 4:52 PM | Link to this
First of all the people that are ranting and raving about Obama’s preacher were never going to vote for him anyway. Most people on the blog know I am black and I have supported Hillary but I am not against Obama.
Secondly, there are some crazy Obama supporters and I really want to blast their attitude because some of Obama’s supporters are going to vote out people who given very good public service to their communities,simply because those people don’t support Obama. I hope some African-americans are reading this blog because that’s who I am talking about. I mean if your representative has brought in millions of dollars to help black colleges and your representative has helped build community centers and improve roads,etc. in your community I think it’s irrational to vote him/her out just because of Obama. Some Obama supporters are talking about becoming independent if Obama doesn’t get the nomination, well, that’s stupid because Obama is an elected democrat. Obama has a democratic philosophy, get over it. I understand being proud of Obama,as an African-american male myself, but some folks pride has become out of control and it’s embarrassing to me. I think it’s time for African-americans to vote for Obama or whoever they want because of their ideas on the ISSUES.
By Truth
March 14, 2008 5:22 PM | Link to this
Archie
Don’t underestimate the power of the media. This isn’t like the swiftboat attacks on John Kerry. This is video clips of the wife of Obama and his mentor saying things that put them in the side of Black culture that many Americans, both Black and White fear. There is no defense of saying that someone is lying. What they are saying is right there, in living color and full motion video.
Like the woman says: this is not radical if you are Black. Well, what if you are not Black? It is radical to say that God Bless America should actually say God Dam* America, especially from a minister who should be putting a lot of stock into what God can or can’t do. That’s saying that God should damn (condemn) me … and you … and your family and any other citizen of this country.
Like it or not, we are America.
Saying that this isn’t important is like finding out that John Mccain has been attending KKK meetings for 20 years and claiming that it doesn’t mean anything.
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March 19, 2008 10:20 AM | Link to this
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March 19, 2008 11:39 AM | Link to this
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