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By The Other Jack

November 19, 2007 8:32 AM | Link to this

Ah, the 60s. The era where George Wallace represented the democratic party, the party of segregation.

But both commentators missed the most important aspect of the 60: the introduction of overt propaganda being broadcast in the form of television entertainment.

Between the years of 1968 to 1972, CBS cancelled every single top ten television show they owned. Mayberry RFD, Pettycoat Junction, Green Acres, Gomer Pile USMC, just four of the top viewed shows that were cancelled while still making millions to be replaced with programs with social commentary.

Of course the social commentary was always anti-conservative, anti-religious and anti white male.

Norman Lear once said that he believed it was his destiny that he would change television and then change the world. Well, he did. Wise, kind, fair Andy Taylor was replaced with Archie Bunker, and Aunt Bea is replaced with Maude.

By chuck

November 19, 2007 9:00 AM | Link to this

Andy, Andy, Andy…Is this the best you’ve got?

Yet we can’t allow detractors from the right to hang the whole decade in effigy as they continue to chip away at social gains and civil liberties, all that went right in that sometimes wrong-headed decade.

Thr RIGHT is not chipping away at social gains. Are you nuts? God forbid we actually expect decency and morality in PUBLIC. So I guess you think the “Greatest Generation” was actually made up of closet Nazis who couldn’t wait to topple Hitler’s regime so they could install their own? Never mind, you are a liberal so I know you don’t THINK. Is there no behavior that is out-of-bounds in your world? Can you not be happy unless ANYTHING GOES?

And then there is this little gem:

Remember: the seed of revolution is in repression. So if you still feel like there was a party you missed, hang on. With the way things are going around here, you just might get a second chance.

It seems to me that you have it exactly BACKWARDS. The revolution is not coming from the LEFT, but rather from the RIGHT. The so-called REPRESSION is coming from the LEFT. You have demanded that freedom of speech be defined as allowing only “POLITICALLY CORRECT” speech. You demand that anyone who uses any kind of speech that is offensive be fired. You classify all speech that isn’t politically correct as “HATE SPEECH”. AND, what is really telling is that these rules DON’T APPLY if that same speech is directed toward white males, Christians or Conservatives. It is hypocrisy to the nth degree.

Any liberal can say anything and you can justify it, but if a conservative says the same thing, he should be shot at dawn.

NOPE, the revolution against repression will come and already is coming from the RIGHT. Viva la revolucion!

By JokesOn

November 19, 2007 9:05 AM | Link to this

But both commentators missed the most important aspect of the 60: the introduction of overt propaganda being broadcast in the form of television entertainment.

And that is worse than the covert tactics used before? Such as putting I Love Lucy on trial for being a “red” and instigating distrust between neighbors because they are not “white like you.”

Like with all needed shake-ups, the 60s had to tear down walls and reconstruction is not instantaneous.

Pro-freedom, pro-secular and pro-equality are not necessarily the same as anti-conservative, anti-religious and anti white male

By The Other Jack

November 19, 2007 9:22 AM | Link to this

Chuck:

Yea, I got the Remember: the seed of revolution is in repression.

FOX News is the perfect example of this statement. After 30 years of uninterrupted overt propaganda being slammed in our faces every time we turned on TV, FOX was the answer.

It is no wonder liberals hate FOX so much. It is our revolution against their repressive actions using their own brand of facism.

The best part is watching the media desperately trying to keep the democrat’s incompetence out of the news. Summer before last, gas prices topped 3 bucks and every network pointed to the Republican-held congress, but now that we have the highest prices in history and the democrats own Congress, not a word from the major three about the gas prices.

By chuck

November 19, 2007 9:34 AM | Link to this

You are on the mark TOJ. I saw something last week and I can’t remember where, but they did a poll among the reporters of major media outlets and found that 93% of them said they vote democrat. Does anybody think that doesn’t give us a skewed reporting of the news? Does ANYBODY think that political affiliation doesn’t play a part in the way news stories are framed by the press?

By chuck

November 19, 2007 9:38 AM | Link to this

Oh, and it’s also no wonder they think Fox News is conservative. It’s been so long since they saw a story presented in a BALANCED way, that they go apoplectic when they see it. They think it’s from a conservative perspective, when in actuality it’s just an honest accounting of the news.

By The Other Jack

November 19, 2007 9:39 AM | Link to this

Jokes On Rather noble speech, but nonsense.

How did all that work out? Pro-freedom? Where was that pushed by the liberal media? Freedom to what? Freedom exercised by who? Freedom to spit on soldiers returning home after an illegal war propagated by the Democrats? What happened to religious freedoms?

Pro-secular means what? That is as Goebalist as Pro-choice meaning something positive. Taking a nation of 300 million people of which over 270 million claim to adhere to the Christian faith and demanding that their freedom of religion should be taken away from them for the terrible idea that someone might be offended by any sort of symbol of Christ, while Satanists and which ever twisted religious concepts anyone with a flower in their hair dreams up be given the right to march their views in front of everyone.

Pro-secular means taking away the freedoms of religion.

Pro-equality? LOL!! That’s a joke. Walk into the Fulton County Courthouse and see how much “equality” is exercised. I’m a white business owner. How about if I bid on a City project without having a Black man front my company. How is that equality working out?

You are a victim of the propaganda I have been talking about.

By The Other Jack

November 19, 2007 9:52 AM | Link to this

Chuck

Yes, News is slanted and we do have an alternative news source. But the real harm is in the propaganda of the entertainment industry.

Johnny Carson will always be one of my favorite entertainers, but during his last 12 minute monologue, he spent over eight of those minutes railing against Dan Quale. Most of it wasn’t even funny. He was a liberal lunatic every night. Now it is impossible to find anyone who is a main stream entertainer who is not a liberal lunatic.

If you think the reporters are liberally slanted, think about the writers of the rest of TV. Writers are liberal. Producers are liberal. And of course, the biggest travesty is that the people who put together the funding for TV shows will only fund liberal ideas.

There are rare examples but the vast majority of the entertainment industry is incredibly liberally slanted.

Isn’t it amazing that with this much overt propaganda, that there are still enough Americans that are smart enough not to buy into the garbage and still vote Republican?

By JokesOn

November 19, 2007 9:58 AM | Link to this

You are a victim of the propaganda I have been talking about.

Thanks for letting me know that I am a victim. Along with the preceeding part of your post, this is more of yours and chucks “i know whats best for you” approach.

I often wonder how does one become so c0cky.

So in wading through your refuse: How did all that work out? Pro-freedom? Where was that pushed by the liberal media? Freedom to what? Freedom exercised by who? Read some. I do not have the faith that you’ll listen if I explain all the injustices to anyone not white and male before the 60s.

That is as Goebalist as Pro-choice meaning something positive. Taking a nation of 300 million people of which over 270 million claim to adhere to the Christian faith and demanding that their freedom of religion should be taken away from them for the terrible idea that someone might be offended by any sort of symbol of Christ, while Satanists and which ever twisted religious concepts anyone with a flower in their hair dreams up be given the right to march their views in front of everyone.

That is just to plain stupid to sift through. One question though: Which rights have you lost regarding religion?

Walk into the Fulton County Courthouse and see how much “equality” is exercised. I’m a white business owner. How about if I bid on a City project without having a Black man front my company. How is that equality working out?

Seeing as tere are a majority of non-minority businesses that are excelling, it is working better than you portray; and much better than the cronie system you would like to return to where mental hospitals filled their dirt basements with blacks who would go 10+ years without seeing a doctor.

To finish, there is a new report that shows that feminist men and women make the best partners.

By The Other Jack

November 19, 2007 10:09 AM | Link to this

Chuck

Actually, FOX is rather slanted. But remember what slanted means: it is the choices made by assignment editors as to which of the thousands of stories that are covered.

An example is the coverage of the Jena Six. FOX saw the story as 6 kids, all with horrible criminal records assaulting a single kid for something in which he wasn’t even involved. Two of the leaders of the kids were put in jail. Those two had the longest and worst records and like most felonies, the kids were to be tried as adults.

CNN saw it as an issue in which Blacks were treated poorly and they insisted on becoming part of the story by having reporters implanted all over Jena, LA. At one time, they wrongly reported that none of the 6 had criminal records, but refused to retract the comment. However, CNN just stayed away from the issue for the remainder of their coverage.

They both covered the story, but from opposite sides.

FOX does balance the news, but by being as conservatively slanted as the other networks are slanted liberal.

FOX is renown for it’s accuracy in reporting while CNN has lots of problems getting the story right. FOX hires seasoned professionals as assignment editors and producers and CNN hires a lot of newbies, straight out of school that will work for crap. It worked great for Ted Turner, but can hardly compete with the big boys.

By chuck

November 19, 2007 10:17 AM | Link to this

TOJ, Fortunately, there are still some voices out there that point out the fallacies found in their point of view. These are some things that the liberals don’t seem to understand:

Peace is achieved through STRENGTH and NOT through APPEASEMENT.

Freedom OF RELIGION is not the same thing as freedom FROM RELIGION.

BUSINESS is NOT THE ENEMY.

PROFIT is a GOOD THING.

CHARITY begins at home. NOBODY should be forced to support others through government confiscation of wealth.

Competition is a GOOD THING. There is a difference between EQUAL OPPORTUNITY AND EQUAL RESULTS.

The keys to success are education, ingenuity and hard work, not a government check or the LOTTERY.

PEOPLE will LET you do FOR them as LONG as you will do for them.

Public FAITH is a good thing. Public displays of INDECENCY are NOT.

By chuck

November 19, 2007 10:23 AM | Link to this

I have to disagree with your 10:09 TOJ. Your example of the Jena story is not accurate in so far as Fox reported the WHOLE STORY which by definition is NOT SLANTED…conservative or otherwise. CNN on the other hand made a CONSCIOUS DECISION to tell only ONE SIDE. That is the definition of slanted.

By lozen

November 19, 2007 10:23 AM | Link to this

It’s always the poor, old white guys who yearn for the good old days of rascism and inequality when they were in charge and nobody questioned that!

By The Other Jack

November 19, 2007 10:30 AM | Link to this

By JokesOn Thanks for letting me know that I am a victim. Along with the preceeding part of your post, this is more of yours and chucks “i know whats best for you” approach.

No. This would be the liberal media telling you what is best for you. I understand the level of your indoctrination. You would never take advice from conservatives. It is simply the opposite of what you have been taught.

So in wading through your refuse: How did all that work out? Pro-freedom? Where was that pushed by the liberal media? Freedom to what? Freedom exercised by who? Read some. I do not have the faith that you’ll listen if I explain all the injustices to anyone not white and male before the 60s.

Those injustices were being defended by democrats. You do understand that, don’t you? If not, perhaps you should be the one doing some reading.

That is just to plain stupid to sift through. One question though: Which rights have you lost regarding religion?

To plain stupid? You don’t know the difference between the words “to and too” but you claim that my post is too stupid to write a response. I see. LOL!!

Seeing as tere are a majority of non-minority businesses that are excelling, it is working better than you portray; and much better than the cronie system you would like to return to where mental hospitals filled their dirt basements with blacks who would go 10+ years without seeing a doctor.

There will always be lots of non-minority businesses. There will also be the minority businesses that can and do compete on a level playing field. Unfortunately, because of the unfair and racist policies of the City of Atlanta, the vendors that the city hires just needs one requirement: Black skin. Because of this, the City, Fulton and Dekalb counties are known for their rude and incompetent employees.

The crony system is alive and well, it’s just another form of unfairness in that the cronies are all Black and these unfair and racist policies are actually supported by people who try to claim that because non-minorities are doing well in non-government jobs, any unfairness on the part of government hiring policies is A-OK.

To finish, there is a new report that shows that feminist men and women make the best partners.

Really? Partners to who? Feminist men and women?

By Food

November 19, 2007 10:34 AM | Link to this

but if a conservative says the same thing, he should be shot at dawn.

And that is a problem, WHY?

By The Other Jack

November 19, 2007 10:34 AM | Link to this

Iozen It is always the indoctrinated that believes that anyone who does not think like they do are poor or deficient in some way.

It is sad. It is pathetic. But I guess if you had a solid argument, you would have posted it.

By Anonymous

November 19, 2007 10:36 AM | Link to this

Liberals long for the 60s, and conservatives long for the 50s—when “absolute values” and “natural law” ruled, and uppity blacks and women knew their place.

The party of segregation has become the Republican party, TOJ. Admit it, accept it, and acknowledge that you’ve chosen to rub shoulders with bigots for the sake of a pro-business, pro-war, pro-Christian-Nation crusade.

By No name please...

November 19, 2007 10:40 AM | Link to this

Hey Lozen! I thought Andrea’s column was insightful and well-written. Shaunti’s rebuttal was predictable but not nearly as offensive as it could have been. But this morning’s rightie love fest is about as boring as a Monday morning staff meeting an get. Yo, GET A ROOM, Y’ALL! We’ll send Hannity on over for his bee jay after you gentlemen knock back a few glasses of your “only we have values” hunch punch.

By The Other Jack

November 19, 2007 10:41 AM | Link to this

Chuck Bad example on the Jena Six story on my part. FOX is a bit slanted, but it would be very hard to present the news without some bias appearing.

Agree with everything else.

By chuck

November 19, 2007 10:42 AM | Link to this

Lozen, normally I ignore you because you rarely add anything to the conversation, but I am going to respond this time because it is the 2nd insinuation that we want to go back to the days of segregation. Both you and JokesOn are examples of the idiocy that has permeated the liberal movement. Have you no decency? How is that kind of rhetoric any better than what McCarty did?

In fact, RACISM is the NEW MCCARTHYISM. Remember that phrase kids. You heard it first HERE. See, if you convince the kids that conservatives are bad racists, you don’t have to have a better idea. You win by political correctness. Liberals have done more to damage minorities than even the KKK could conjure up. By trapping them in porly performing schools and making them dependent on miniscule government checks, you don’t EMPOWER them, you SUBJUGATE them. They can’t NOT vote democrat, because those bad republicans might take away their checks.

NOBODY has said that EVERYTHING that happened in the 60’s was bad. NOBODY has said that the Civil Rights Movement was bad. That is the worst kind of liberal garbage. Minority voters are beginning to see through this crap too. As more and more minorities have PROSPERED through the economic boon fueled by CONSERVATIVES, they no longer see confiscation of wealth as a GOOD THING. It won’t be long before liberalism goes the way of all bad ideas.

By chuck

November 19, 2007 10:47 AM | Link to this

Now the third member of the lunatic fringe has been heard from.

By The Other Jack

November 19, 2007 10:48 AM | Link to this

Anonymous The party of segregation has become the Republican party, TOJ. Admit it, accept it, and acknowledge that you’ve chosen to rub shoulders with bigots for the sake of a pro-business, pro-war, pro-Christian-Nation crusade.

Walk into the Fulton County Courthouse, look at the race of the vast majority of the employees. 95 to 99% Black? That’s called segregation. Who’s fault is that?

Look at our area. It is covered with segregated housing, most of it being the result of “The Great Society” programs of the Democratically controlled 1960s.

I have shown two present and distinct examples of segragation at tyhe hands of Democrats.

Your turn. Please post examples of segregation that was initiated by Republicans.

By chuck

November 19, 2007 10:49 AM | Link to this

Kimmie, you are becoming as irrelevant as Lozen. Good JOB.

By The Other Jack

November 19, 2007 10:54 AM | Link to this

No Name Plaese GET A ROOM, Y’ALL! We’ll send Hannity on over for his bee jay after you gentlemen knock back a few glasses of your “only we have values” hunch punch.

How absolutely ignorant. Is it really such a shock that two conservatives show up here at the same time? If “getting a room” was an issue, 90% of the posters here would never leave that room.

Sorry to hurt your widdle liberal feelings.

By Jack

November 19, 2007 11:01 AM | Link to this

Chuck. Your arrogance is unbecoming.

TOJ. Just look at the city of Atlanta. Nuff said.

By The Other Jack

November 19, 2007 11:02 AM | Link to this

Chuck There is something very comforting about seeing these kinds of irrational and “personal attack” responses.

A few weeks ago, I suggested that the idea of God was introduced by some very wise men that used religion to teach the laws of nature. Just the thought of religion containing any sort of wisdom brought out attacks like I have never seen. I was even called a fundie by one of these dim-wits.

There are some good people here that post interesting and intelligent answers. But there’s not many.

By The Other Jack

November 19, 2007 11:11 AM | Link to this

Jack TOJ. Just look at the city of Atlanta. Nuff said.

Nuf said about what? Incompetence? Racist hiring policies? I honestly know know what you mean.

By No name please...

November 19, 2007 11:16 AM | Link to this

Yawwwwwn! Yes, do go on enlightening us on how Glenn Beck, Soledad O’Brien, and Nancy Grace on CNN are “communists” pushing liberal propaganda, and how we have to go to Fox news for balance and truth. Haha! Surprise: Some of us make a point to seek news from many sources, not relying on any one in particular. Tried to watch O’Reilly the other night, but I couldn’t glean any actualy information. He asked his guest a question, but when she tried to answer, he interrupted, picked one word, and squaked nonsense for the next minute. “SAND? MY head? What am I in Hawaii or something? Beach party? Squawk squawk!” The “I’ll ask you a question but won’t let you answer it” approach is sooooo informative, isn’t it?

Current Fox “news” internet headlines: Biggest one: Is Clinton Camp Playing Nixon Tricks on Obama? Followed by, in equal sized font: 10,000 Feared Dead in Cyclone and Duh, Heh, She Pretty” — a story about how blondes apparently make men dumber-er… Haha! Saw that one on their “news” channel over the weekend while looking for news. But I’m sorry, didn’t mean to interrupt. Y’all do go on.

By Lyrazel

November 19, 2007 11:18 AM | Link to this

The sixties were over in 1970.

Legacy? Its legacy is: how the most spoiled and self centered generation decayed in its own excesses and idealism and now shills mythologies with false nostalgia.

I believe the 60s was the dawn of the pill culture that has dominated medicine. Pills were prescribed for any malady offered by medical professionals who really had no concept of what these chemicals did. One took speed for: pep and it was frequently prescribed to new mothers to help that gee I am tired after birth syndrome.

Myth Busters & Reality

Most people confuse the 60s with other years—maybe its the pills. FYI boys: Lucy Arnez was subpoenaed by the House Committee on Un-American Activities in 1953. Mayberry RFD and those Hollywood rural shows so popular in the 60s were canceled in the 70s. In 1960 most homes had B&W television without cable. People got their news in print.

In 1968 there were only 1000 McDonalds restaurants.

Gas was 23 (roughly) cents a gallon in 1960. There was a gas war at the time, and oil was a glut on the market. Cheap oil from the middle east had just begun to flood the market.

The first use of magnetic stripes on cards was in the early 1960’s, when the London Transit Authority installed a magnetic stripe system. (Don’t think that’s as important as McDonalds? Look at your credit cards!)

Optical fibre was invented in 1966

Sorry folks, the first email was sent in 1972…

By lozen

November 19, 2007 11:25 AM | Link to this

When someone jabbers on and on about how great the 50’s were but then tries to say they didn’t mean rascism was great you just have to wonder. Neither blacks nor women had any voice in government, business, education or anything else in the larger society in the 50’s! I was there, I remember it well, and I know that is the truth. White men and only white men filled every level of government, business, education above high school, the media, everything. They made the rules and nobody challenged them. And when that’s pointed out, all of a sudden the great 50’s that you yearn for didn’t include rascism - or you want to just leave it out? The 60’s and the explosion of the fight for greater freedom and opportunity for blacks, women, native americans, everyone except white men is remembered by conservatives as the time when drugs took over the country. Amazing!

By HUH?

November 19, 2007 11:29 AM | Link to this

I honestly know know what you mean

is that a song? know, know know, know, know know know, know know

and two, to two, too two to, correction to a non-native-English speaker?

By NetBanker

November 19, 2007 11:29 AM | Link to this

Taking a nation of 300 million people of which over 270 million claim to adhere to the Christian faith and demanding that their freedom of religion should be taken away from them for the terrible idea that someone might be offended by any sort of symbol of Christ, while Satanists and which ever twisted religious concepts anyone with a flower in their hair dreams up be given the right to march their views in front of everyone. Can you give us a concrete example of the loss of religious freedom of which you speak? If you HONESTLY support freedom of religion then you should also be supporting the right of “Satanists and which ever twisted religious concepts anyone with a flower in their hair dreams up” to “their views in front of everyone.” Yet your post most certainly doesn’t read that way at all.

Freedom OF RELIGION is not the same thing as freedom FROM RELIGION I can agree with the statement. Where it seems to go wrong is that ‘Freedom of Religion’ seems to mean freedom of government organizations to have only Christian religious displays on public property…generally Christmas displays. I just can’t agree with this. If any individual, church, or private business wants to display religious symbols or icons or whatever on their property go ahead with exercising your 1st Amendment rights. When it comes to ‘public’ dollars paying for a single religion’s images to be displayed on public property that is a problem…then again display ANY religion’s images on public property should be an issue. One doesn’t go to government buildings to hear sermons or be proselytized any more than one goes to a church to obtain a driver’s license or file a lawsuit.

To those who will respond to me in the negative about my opinion (most of whom I suspect will be conservative christians) I request that your response include a reason as to why public dollars should be used to display any religion’s images and why you would turn over control of that religion’s images to a secular organization rather than keep control of them in the Church as well as why the dollars aren’t better spent in ways that actually serve the public (i.e. pay salaries for police officers or for trash removal or to repair sewer systems)

“BUSINESS is NOT THE ENEMY.” In relation to the prior topic of religious displays business IS the enemy. Business is the group that has taken the Christ out of Christmas and turned it into an orgy of conspicuous consumption…not the government, not liberals, not aethists or secularist, but BUSINESS.

Public FAITH is a good thing. Public displays of INDECENCY are NOT. I don’t disagree here. My only caveat is that “Public FAITH” be displayed by an individual as an individual or an individual as representing a PRIVATE organization, but not an individual as agent for government or government as an agent for FAITH.

Walk into the Fulton County Courthouse, look at the race of the vast majority of the employees. 95 to 99% Black? You have us there…and I do find it iteresting that in a city where 25% of the population is black >90% of government employees black. I have experienced both excellent service and felt discriminated against for my race when dealing with government employees in Georgia.

By chuck

November 19, 2007 11:30 AM | Link to this

That’s true TOJ. We used to have a number of posters who were capable of actual debate, but even those usually resorted to personal attacks when they saw their arguments begin to fail in the harsh light of reality.

By The Other Jack

November 19, 2007 11:30 AM | Link to this

No Name Please LOL!! Your problem is pretty obvious. You are going to political commentators hosting opinion shows for your news. LOL!! Do you really not know the difference?

As far as FOX’s headlines, have you seen what the Today Show’s headlines were for today? Teacher loses 200 lbs. Student didn’t recognize her. Wow. Now there’s some real news!!!

I’m still waiting on FOX to start doing stories about the gas prices and the promises the democrats made before the last election as to regulating the oil companies.

By Andrea

November 19, 2007 11:30 AM | Link to this

Most of the issues that are being discussed in this forum reflect fear.

As an evangelical Christ follower there are no laws that can prevent me from following the One who loves me. I do not need to fear the end of an era nor the taking down of the ten commandments or the handing out of condoms. Defilement does not come from the outside but from my own heart. Jesus taught us this in Mark 7:

14Again Jesus called the crowd to him and said, “Listen to me, everyone, and understand this. 15Nothing outside a man can make him ‘unclean’ by going into him. Rather, it is what comes out of a man that makes him ‘unclean.’ “

While it is appropriate for me to anguish over the saddening things of this world: that children are not being taught to respect their own bodies, that God’s laws are ignored and laughed at and that the digression of society is continuing, I can be reminded of Hebrews 12:

1Therefore, since we are surrounded by such a great cloud of witnesses, let us throw off everything that hinders and the sin that so easily entangles, and let us run with perseverance the race marked out for us. 2Let us fix our eyes on Jesus, the author and perfecter of our faith, who for the joy set before him endured the cross, scorning its shame, and sat down at the right hand of the throne of God.

I can remember the Christians of Hitler Germany that loved even when it cost them their lives, I can be inspired by Chinese Christians who are beaten for their faith because many parts of China are still ruled by the law of atheism, and I can chose to truly love those who persecute me.

I realize that much of our ideology is inspired by the Old Testament desire to preserve an early American ideal of following Jesus, but the reality is that even in the Old Testament when Josiah (a great king) took down the Ashera poles and tried to reestablish God’s law, the people’s hearts were not changed and God still had to take away His glory from all of Israel.

By having better laws, teaching abstinence, keeping up ten commandment monuments, or wishing that it were the 50’s again, it will not change the fact that God might (and I believe is) removing His glory from the United States. And it is because of the hardened hearts of both belivers and non-Belivers. We are both at fault.

But, do not despair, even when God removes His Glory he never removes Himself. As belivers we may not get to have our monuments of faith or abstinence education or the so called values of the 50’s (the good ones anyway, I agree that racism and repression were a terrible aspect of the 50’s) restored, but we will always have the person of Jesus Christ. We will have a deeper understanding of who He truly is. Just look to the underground churches of China and the champions of faith in history who did not let a depraved generation let them give up hope.

Christians, put your hope in Jesus Christ, not in government or traditional ideology — honor ALL people — LOVE those who persecute you — and above all, have faith, HE has overcome the world!

By chuck

November 19, 2007 11:33 AM | Link to this

Glenn Beck, Soledad O’Brien, and Nancy Grace

UHHHHH…in case you didn’t notice, these are all COMMENTATORS, not news people.

By Jack

November 19, 2007 11:33 AM | Link to this

TOJ. Incompetence? Racist hiring policies?

Yes. Except I can name a few more. Demographics, & how many years of the esteemed Bill “give me money” Campbell?

By Jack

November 19, 2007 11:36 AM | Link to this

Lyrazel. You are the wisest on the blog. A big cyber kiss to you. :)

By Jack

November 19, 2007 11:44 AM | Link to this

One for you too Sweetness! SMOOCH.

Gotta run. Later.

By lozen

November 19, 2007 11:48 AM | Link to this

Hey Lyrazel. I was a new mother twice in the 60’s and nobody offered me any pills for pep, darn it! Motherhood and being a housewife was a silly thing, any moron could do it and it wasn’t feminism that told us that. It was society at large before feminism. Women who stayed home and took care of children and everything else were not valued at all. It was only after large numbers of women started working outside the home that some ppl decided motherhood was a saintly venture and our whole world was going to fall apart because women were not at home all the time! It was the feminist movement that began telling women how much their work in the home was worth and how valuable it truly was. It was the feminist movement that began to say there are two people living here. Why is one supposed to do all the sh-t work, cleaning, laundry, etc. while the other is responsible for none of it? There are two parents here; why is only one totally responsible for everything that has to do with the kids? Everything was questioned; everything needed to be questioned. I grew up and went to high school in the 50’s. I graduated, got married and had children in the early 60’s. I am the transition generation and believe me, there is no way I would go back to anything in the 50’s! I’m grateful for the civil rights movement, the women’s movement, the antiwar movement, all the ppl who rebelled and stood up to “the way things were” in the 60’s. There were many, many things that needed to be rebelled against. There were many changes that needed to be made. The legacy of the 60’s for me is all good.

By No name please...

November 19, 2007 11:49 AM | Link to this

TOJ, I agree with you. I’ve long thought the The Today Show was comprised of wh-o-res. Very little “news” is actually news anymore. Most of it is info-tainment, with advertising $, not the public interest, as their primary focus. They should be giving us more facts and fewer opinions. The debates should be within the citizenry, not hogged by show-biz egos fighting their ratings wars, gathering hoards of loyal followers.

UHHHHH…in case you didn’t notice, these are all COMMENTATORS, not news people.

Please pardon my confusion, but I do come here to learn, so what’s your point? You called CNN the “communist news network.” The people I listed have their faces on CNN probably 40 hours a week or more. Do you think Glenn Back is a communist? Soledad O’B was a morning news anchor for years. Have you ever listened to one of her hard-hitting interviews? Haha!

By The Other Jack

November 19, 2007 11:51 AM | Link to this

Lyrazel Mayberry RFD was cancelled in 1971. I said all those shows were canceled between the years of 1968 and 1971. Lear’s takeover was almost complete by 1971.

The 60s were the transition years between a lot of things. Those years ushered in some really good things, but many of those good things were handled poorly.

I was a teenager in the 1960s. I just finished raising two teenagers. My life as a teenager was safer and much more free than my kids have experienced. I blame a lot of that on the 60s.

Our schools were the best public schools in the world in the 50s and 60s. Now they are in league with many third world countries. I blame that on the Democrats, the teacher’s unions and the 60s.

Homes with two loving people at the helm were much more common in the 60s.

Poverty was at an all-time low during the 1960s and now it is higher than the 1930s.

I love th freedoms that decade ushered in, but I hate so many of the other things.

By NetBanker

November 19, 2007 11:51 AM | Link to this

The “I’ll ask you a question but won’t let you answer it” approach is sooooo informative, isn’t it? I have to agree with the assessment if only in relationship to Sean Hannity’s radio show. I’ve heard some callers making very good points only to have Hannity focus on a single word or start rapid firing questions posed in yes/no fashion cutting off the person each time they attempted to qualify their response. He’s also big on personal attacks.

What I’m seeing in the postings this week is another boring repetition of absolutes on BOTH sides that perpetuates the political culture war. It’s becoming apparent that as much as everyone tends to complain about Congress they ARE acting in a manner that represents the population. No concern or thoughts to cooperation or statemen’s ship or collaberation. It’s all devolving into a bunch of BLAH, BLAH, LIBRUL…BLAH, BLAH Conservative personal attacks and generalizations!

By Anonymous

November 19, 2007 11:55 AM | Link to this

TOJ: You must have a very selective memory to have forgotten all the incidents of Republican racism America has seen.

Jesse Helms and Strom Thurmond defecting to the GOP after army desegregation. Goldwater’s opposition to the Civil Rights Act. Nixon’s “southern strategy.” Governor George Wallace, Republican. Reagan’s coded messages to southern bigots about “states’ rights.” Bush the First’s “Willie Horton” ads. Trent Lott. Republican Attempts to redeem Bob Jones University. Jeb Bush and Katherine Harris disenfranchising thousands of black voters in Florida. David Duke. George “Macaca” Allen. The attack ads against Harold Ford in Tennessee. Republican candidates ducking out of minority-sponsored debates.

You’ve REALLY never heard about any of this? Denial must be a warm and comforting place, sir.

By chuck

November 19, 2007 11:57 AM | Link to this

I can agree with the statement. Where it seems to go wrong is that ‘Freedom of Religion’ seems to mean freedom of government organizations to have only Christian religious displays on public property…generally Christmas displays.

Nobody is advocating having ONLY Christian displays on public property, BUT, we certainly should be able to have Christmas displays on public property, NOT TO THE EXCLUSION OF OTHERS, but, since the vast majority of citizens CELEBRATE Christmas, public displays play NO ROLE in establishing a religion but rather are just an acknowledgement that the religion is important to the community.

A careful reading of the Constitution reveals a truth that NOONE wants to admit. LOCAL AND STATE GOVERNMENTS CANNOT violate the Establishment Clause. EVEN IF THEY COULD, there are 2 parts to that Amemndment.

Congress shall make no laws concerning the establishment of a religion OR prohibiting the free exercise thereof. There is nothing in there to prohibit, public displays of a religious nature. In addition, it is liberals who are pushing an agenda that INCLUDES making it illegal for churches, synagogues and mosques, etc. to display religious messages on THEIR OWN PROPERTY, because they can be seen from PUBLIC PROPERTY. No this is not a mainstream liberal idea YET, but this irrational fear of even being exposed to a religious message sure makes it a possibility.

It is IRRATIONAL to think that a simple prayer at a football game or a graduation is a bad thing. It is NOT and never will be AN ESTABLISHMENT of any religion as a NATIONAL one.

No disagreement on your statement about business and Christmas, but you know very well that that was not the point of that statement. You only have to read this blog to see the liberal hysteria against “CORPORATIONS”. Pretty much everybody that works (except for government employees) works for a corporation. It is extremely NAIVE to ignore the consequences of liberal policies toward business in terms of the economy generally and their own livelihoods specifically.

By The Other Jack

November 19, 2007 11:58 AM | Link to this

iozen

Lot of confusion there. The feminist movement had NO KIND WORDS for women’s roles at home. Television soap advertisers probably did more for the women’s roles at home movement than any feminist.

By The Other Jack

November 19, 2007 12:03 PM | Link to this

Netbaker Who’s talking about Hannity? Is he all you think about when you hear the words: FOX News?

Conservative personal attacks and generalizations!

Yea … How about this: we will just agree with everything you say. Will that make it all better?

By Scalia

November 19, 2007 12:06 PM | Link to this

The Other Jack, how convenient of you to talk about the City of Atlanta being 90 to 95% black. Take a trip to Peachtree City. Or Alpharetta, Sandy Springs, Milton, Roswell, Fayetteville, or Conyers. All 90 to 95% white. Let’s see a black man try to get a contract there.

I don’t see a push for whites to move into the city. They would rather conveniently create their own city (e.g. Milton, Sandy Springs) commute several miles than live in a city with a black neighbor.

By Jack

November 19, 2007 12:07 PM | Link to this

“Jeb Bush and Katherine Harris disenfranchising thousands of black voters in Florida.”

BS. How bout the suppression of the members of the miltary that didn’t get counted?

Now I really have to go.

By chuck

November 19, 2007 12:09 PM | Link to this

another boring repetition of absolutes on BOTH sides that perpetuates the political culture war.

It is true that both sides have become charicatures of themselves. However, it is difficult to listen to liberals when the first hing that comes out of their mouths is a personal attack. NOT a new idea or a better way, but a personal attack. And you are right…that is not productive and doesn’t lead to solutions.

By The Other Jack

November 19, 2007 12:10 PM | Link to this

No name Please News is hard. It all boils down to someone’s idea of what is important and what isn’t. If that person is liberal, the news will be liberally slanted, even though the facts are accurate. Same thing for a conservative propucer or assignment editor.

Hard news is only a small part of today’s news. Even the BBC folds to some of the dumber stories. If I hear about another millionaire celebrity going into drug rehab or getting a divorce, I will scream. I don’t care.

By Mara

November 19, 2007 12:16 PM | Link to this

Netbanker - applause Well said! The only “right” that the Christianists have lost is the “right” for their church to be subsidized by the U.S. tax-payer. It does seem like their “freedom of religion” frenzy is really a “preferable treatment for Christianity” movement, else, as you said, they’d be equally aghast that the government chooses not plaster the courthouses with the text of other holy books. Can you imagine the sainted Judge Roy Moore demanding the right to post parts of the Bhagavad Gita in the foyer of the Alabama Supreme Court? HA!

By No name please...

November 19, 2007 12:18 PM | Link to this

NetB, great point about Congress being ineffective because they are reflecting their constituents! I too am guilty at times of the “us vs. them” mentality that disregards [what should be] our common goals. Can’t speak for anyone else, but I wasn’t always that way. Other people slapped labels on me I didn’t ask for (and called me names that ensured I’d never value their opinion, ever). But as you’ve seen as well, attempts to reach common, middle ground and go forward toward logical solutions will get you scorned and ridiculed by people who’ve made up their minds to never change or open them.

Lozen, thanks for telling it like it was! I don’t remember the 60’s, but I do have eternal, undying love for Jimi Hendrix!

Regarding drugs and the 60’s: Get real. There have always been drugs and drug abuse in some form. There will always be drugs. Prohibition did not work. The only thing that changes is what type is on the market, and who makes money off them. “Ask your doctor if expensive pharmaceutical products with unknown long-term side effects are right for you.”

By chuck

November 19, 2007 12:19 PM | Link to this

…Goldwater’s opposition to the Civil Rights Act.

There it is. See you equated that to RACISM when there was absolutely no racism there. Goldwater opposed the Civil Rights Act because as a Conservative, he saw it as an intrusion into the personal lives of people and a violation of the constitutional freedom of association. He thought it would lead to a quota system that would no longer be based on merit and violate the right of individual business owners and corporations to hire the people that they thought would be best for their companies.

By Mara

November 19, 2007 12:23 PM | Link to this

chu7ck - what’s with all the ANGRY SCREAMING today? Did you HAVE A BAD WEEKEND? Any chance you’ll revert to using ITALICS instead of screaming at the top of your voice? Please?

By Anonymous

November 19, 2007 12:25 PM | Link to this

And your uncle, Barry Goldwater, told you this in person last Christmas? Because otherwise I’d like to know how you harnessed your psychic power to determine his REAL motivations, contrary to what he actually said.

By B. Goldwater

November 19, 2007 12:27 PM | Link to this

Thanks, Chuck, for clarifying that point. I also opposed government intrustion into the personal medical decisions of a woman, her doctor, and her family. I felt that individuals, not the government, should decide what’s best for their own bodies. I was glad when that right was upheld in the 70’s.

By The Other Jack

November 19, 2007 12:34 PM | Link to this

Anonymous Jesse Helms and Strom Thurmond defecting to the GOP after army desegregation.

Yes, they became integrationists after they reformed.

Goldwater’s opposition to the Civil Rights Act.

He opposed the Civil Rights Act of 1964, submitted by Republicans, however he supported the revision of the act that was submitted by JFK, a democrat. He may have opposed the act, but he is dead and Robert Byrd filibustered against the act and he is still in congress as a democrat.

Nixon’s “southern strategy.”

A total fallacy. Nixon was never supported by Southern Whites in his election of 1968 or 1972.

Governor George Wallace, Republican.

George Wallace was never a Republican. He did however run for president in 1964 as a Democrat where he had a huge amount of support from Wisconsin, Indiana and Maryland. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GeorgeWallace#Presidentialambitions

Reagan’s coded messages to southern bigots about “states’ rights.”

Coded messages? Hmmm. I was a big fan of Reagan but never got the memo about the coded messages.

Bush the First’s “Willie Horton” ads.

This makes the Republicans the party of segragation?

Trent Lott. Republican Attempts to redeem Bob Jones University. Jeb Bush and Katherine Harris disenfranchising thousands of black voters in Florida. David Duke. George “Macaca” Allen. The attack ads against Harold Ford in Tennessee.

Anything that says that Republicans support segragation?

Republican candidates ducking out of minority-sponsored debates. Are you talking about the Tavis Smiley Show? Ballsy move by Tavis but if Shawn Hannity held a democratic debate, I’ll bet none of the democrats would show up, either. The whole affair was invented to make sure that Black people hated the Republicans even more than before. Apprently, it worked.

I gave two distinct, modern and accurate examples of democratically sponsored segregation that we see every day. You speak of Republicans that were never Republicans and coded messages.

One more time: please present examples of the Republican’s sponsoring segregation. If you want to site individuals in the individual parties that were racist, just look at every state governor of every Southern State during the 60s. THEY WERE ALL DEMOCRATS, INCLUDING GEORGE WALLACE.

By chuck

November 19, 2007 12:35 PM | Link to this

I’m sorry Mara. Those were capitalized for emphasis not as a sign of anger. BTW I had a great weekend. How about you?

By The Other Jack

November 19, 2007 12:47 PM | Link to this

Mara The only “right” that the Christianists have lost is the “right” for their church to be subsidized by the U.S. tax-payer.

When did that happen? Churches are still tax exempt.

It is all about free speech and common sense. The vast majority of people in that particular Alabama district wouldn’t have much respect for the Bhagavad Gita, any more than Indian folks would have for the old testament.

But it was much more important for people who do not even live there to dictate the practices and behaviors of people they will never meet or know. I call that fascism.

Associating secular laws with religious laws is practiced everywhere in the world, included on the quarters in your pocket.

Liberals are bullies, insisting that the world see and think how they see and think.

It is disgusting.

By chuck

November 19, 2007 12:51 PM | Link to this

http://www.aliciapatterson.org/APF0804/Judis/Judis.html

Goldwater’s showing in the South was largely the result of his opposition to the Civil Rights Act of 1964, but he opposed the Act for different reasons than many white Southerners did. Goldwater’s personal record on civil rights was as good as that of many liberal Democrats. As a Phoenix city councilman, he had been a member of the NAACP and championed the integration of the Arizona National Guard. But he was also an ardent proponent of states’ rights, another reflection of his Western background, and he saw the Civil Rights Act of 1964 as a direct assault upon state prerogatives. He was very sensitive about his position. “He would have thrown anybody out of the office who suggested that we should solicit votes in what was perceived as a racist vote,” Edwards recalled.

Also, Michael Barone of the Wall Street journal noted that Goldwater opposed the Civil Rights Act on constitutional grounds; he was no bigot and had integrated the staff at his department store.

You really should remain anonymous.

By lozen

November 19, 2007 12:53 PM | Link to this

Lot of confusion there. The feminist movement had NO KIND WORDS for women’s roles at home. Television soap advertisers probably did more for the women’s roles at home movement than any feminist. Bull. You obviously read a lot of feminist literature and attended many feminist meetings. Not! But I did! Please do not tell me I’m confused about a movement I lived, was a part of and you, so obviously, were not. You have been miseducated about the feminist movement.

By Lyrazel

November 19, 2007 1:13 PM | Link to this

Lozen, in ways I agree with your sentiments but in other ways I cannot forget the waste of lives and excesses that plagued the late 60s so I have no nostalgia… The 1960s was a dreary time for me! Like yourself I had to watch my mother be degraded. We had to endure slights because of broken family and then mother re-married a hispanic (who did not even pretend to look white LOL)—lord help us, ya’all. Sorry you did not get pep pills, my sisters did! I did not include NOW (1966) and a host of things that dramatically helped women (like the BC pill!!)… Pardon my omissions…

I forgot to add that blacks and other minorities were rarely welcomed in the Peace Corps in the 60s regardless if they were fluent in language or had useful skills. There were places for minorities—mainly as military grunts for Viet Nam. The use of boy was still common for black men and women were girls regardless of color or age. As nostalgic as I can get for the decade my favorite record produced in the 60s is still Sketches of Spain…

By chuck

November 19, 2007 1:17 PM | Link to this

Liberals are bullies, insisting that the world see and think how they see and think.

You are exactly right. They use Racism as the NEW McCarthyism to shut down the opposition and put them on the defensive. It is nothing more than an attempt to drown out any voice but their own.

By The Other Jack

November 19, 2007 1:20 PM | Link to this

Iozen Bull. You obviously read a lot of feminist literature and attended many feminist meetings. Not! But I did!

LOL!! Ahhh. So you obviously have a more fair representation of who played what role: considering you are part of the movement that wants to take credit for every advancement women have made.

We all lived the women’s movement. We are still living it. Every time you are trying to get through a door with your arms full, thank the women’s movement for no man giving a d*mn about your plight.

But that doesn’t change the fact that during the early days of the latest women’s movement, any woman staying at home was made to fill worthless, certainly not fulfilling her potential.

By chuck

November 19, 2007 1:20 PM | Link to this

Oh, and on the Goldwater question. Juan Williams, a noted liberal (and black) journalist wrote:

The Civil Rights Act, signed July 2, 1964, by President Lyndon Johnson, ended legal discrimination against blacks at hotels, restaurants and department stores. It also made discrimination illegal in hiring. Barry Goldwater, the Republican presidential nominee that year, decided to make himself a voice for opponents of the Act.

Goldwater said he supported the white Southern position on civil rights, which was that each and every state had a sovereign right to control its laws. The Arizona Republican argued that each American has the right to decide whom to hire, whom to do business with and whom to welcome in his or her restaurant.

By Mara

November 19, 2007 1:22 PM | Link to this

chuck - I had a great weekend, thanks for asking. The honey and I did the High’s “Impressionist Masters” and “Treasures of the Ancient World” exhibits. Fabulous. :^)

TOJ - yes, churches are still tax-exempt, (which means they don’t pay their way) but at least they aren’t being given sectarian use of public property any longer.

I finds it interesting that your definition of “fascism” includes upholding the “law of the land”, regardless of whether you live next door to an offender or accross the state. It seems like you are saying that it’s “fascism” for tax-payers in California to demand that federal law be upheld in Alabama. That those same tax-payers have no right (indeed are infringing on Alabamans first amendment rights), to insist that if the Ten Commandments (which is revered by the fundamentalists) be displayed, then so should other holy texts, like the B.V. (which, you say, is not held in high regard). Do you know the definition of “fascism”? ‘Cause I don’t think it means what you think it means…

but I guess that’s just the liberal bully in me, demanding that you define the word the way I define it…LOL!!!

By NetBanker

November 19, 2007 1:23 PM | Link to this

The 60’s and the explosion of the fight for greater freedom and opportunity for blacks, women, native americans, everyone except white men is remembered by conservatives as the time when drugs took over the country. Well you know ” blacks, women, native americans, everyone except white men” MUST have been on drugs to challenge the status quo because white men were doing a fine without the inclusion of those other groups. HAHAHAHA!

Very little “news” is actually news anymore. Most of it is info-tainment, with advertising $, not the public interest, as their primary focus. They should be giving us more facts and fewer opinions. The debates should be within the citizenry, not hogged by show-biz egos fighting their ratings wars, gathering hoards of loyal followers. Well said and a big True That! The local news is entirely worthless unless you want to hear about shootings, crime, and apartment fires. The amount of ‘real’ content is minimal. That the ‘National’ news shows are usually less than 1 hour and spend little time of foreign news (which in this globalized world affects us more than most realize) isn’t a great sign either.

Homes with two loving people at the helm were much more common in the 60s. Are you SURE that there were ‘two loving people’ at the helm of all those homes or did it just appear that way or are you maybe projecting your home experience on the era? At times I have to remind myself that my childhood memories of home growing up in the ’70s was the exception rather than the rule amongst my peers. Additionally, my parents have also shared more of the hard times stories and revealed things to my brother and I as adults that we were oblivious to as children.

There is nothing in there to prohibit, public displays of a religious nature. In addition, it is liberals who are pushing an agenda that INCLUDES making it illegal for churches, synagogues and mosques, etc. to display religious messages on THEIR OWN PROPERTY, because they can be seen from PUBLIC PROPERTY. Making it illegal for religious organizations to put up displays on their own property is going too far. Displays on public property though I still disagree with IF the display is being funded or maintained in any way with public dollars regardless of their being open to all religions. IMO tax dollars should NOT be spent on any type of religious display…not when we have an overwhelming number of other problems that need to be solved.

Well TOJ, Hannity was mentioned by another poster along with O’Reilly, and there have been mentions of other TV personalities…so what’s the big deal about my speaking of Hannity and his tactics? Please back up and re-read the sentence…the personal attacks and generalizations was in regard to “BLAH, BLAH, LIBRUL…BLAH, BLAH Conservative” I was chastising BOTH sides, but feel free to ‘sound bite’ it down so you can attack me for no reason.

it is difficult to listen to liberals when the first hing that comes out of their mouths is a personal attack. NOT a new idea or a better way, but a personal attack. Chuck…replace liberals with conservatives and you pretty much have the impression of many on the other side of the fence. I’m convinced it’s become more about winning and being able to claim victory than it is about governance and leadership.

If I hear about another millionaire celebrity going into drug rehab or getting a divorce, I will scream. I don’t care. Cheers to that! Who gives a sh it if Lohan is in rehab or Brittney is wearing panties today or Branjolina are adopting another kid or J-Lo is pregnant or whatever?! Does it affect or potentially affect your life or those you love in any way? The frustrating thing is that it’s darn near impossible to avoid hearing about it.

I wasn’t always that way. Other people slapped labels on me I didn’t ask for (and called me names that ensured I’d never value their opinion, ever). But as you’ve seen as well, attempts to reach common, middle ground and go forward toward logical solutions will get you scorned and ridiculed by people who’ve made up their minds to never change or open them. NNP…TRUE THAT! And an observation that I think everyone can agree with.

By Lyrazel

November 19, 2007 1:30 PM | Link to this

The Other Jack: 1971 is NOT the 60s is it? Or is that the new math? Someone said: When blacks came to Mayberry…the show was canceled. I find it quite interesting that your nostalgia for the good old days is off a hollywood set and never was real —um, nobody liked Aunt Bea…either.

By chuck

November 19, 2007 1:41 PM | Link to this

At the state and local level, I think tax dollars should be spent on whatever the PUBLIC wants them spent as long as it doesn’t violate the State Constitution. My point is that these displays (those that are totally funded by the groups that placed them there AND those that are funded by LOCAL governments) are not prohibited by the establishment clause. Just another case of activist judges going OVERBOARD.

By NetBanker

November 19, 2007 1:43 PM | Link to this

The only “right” that the Christianists have lost is the “right” for their church to be subsidized by the U.S. tax-payer…When did that happen? Churches are still tax exempt. Tax exemption isn’t what she’s speaking about. For example, it could be viewed as a subsidy to have Christmas pagents in schools that only presented Christian religion like we did in prior decades. In my elementary school in the 70’s there was Christmas, but certainly no Channuka or knowledge/acknowledgement of Ramadan or any other religion. It could be viewed as a subsidy when tax dollars were spent by government organizations to have a Christmas display (generally the Nativity) on government property as was frequently done in decades past.

You are exactly right. They use Racism as the NEW McCarthyism to shut down the opposition and put them on the defensive. It is nothing more than an attempt to drown out any voice but their own. Perpetuating, perpetuating…as if Conservatives have never used some tactic or ‘issue’ to “shut down the opposition and put them on the defensive.” PUHLEASE! Politics has become a sleazy, dirty, mud-slinging, take-no-prisoners, destroy the opposition at all costs free-for-all. Maybe if WE start acting and conducting ourselves the way we would like our Congress and politicians to conduct themselves we can affect a change.

What I’m noting on BOTH sides (that one’s for you TOJ) is that there seemingly a sole focus on the negative or any mis-statement. Little to no acknowledgement of valid points or directing the conversation/debate to focus on those points of agreement…or bridging the gaps where the disagreement is smallest. Nope! Can’t have that! We all seem to need to grab the most outrageous statements and rail on those further dividing us. We have seent the enemy and the enemy is US.

By chuck

November 19, 2007 1:47 PM | Link to this

Lyrazel, are you being intentionally OBTUSE? Not that TOJ needs it, but he proceded the statement on those television shows with this statement:

But both commentators missed the most important aspect of the 60: the introduction of overt propaganda being broadcast in the form of television entertainment.

THEN he said between 1968 and 1972. Introduction in the 60’s AS HE SAID and then completion in 1972.

GEEZ LOUISE.

By NetBanker

November 19, 2007 1:54 PM | Link to this

Every time you are trying to get through a door with your arms full, thank the women’s movement for no man giving a dmn about your plight.* This seems to be a commentary on the lack of manners in society today rather than having any correlation to the women’s movement. Even if one does hold the door for a woman, or man for that matter, rarely does one hear a “Thank you” to acknowledge your act. It’s amazing the number of dirty looks I receive after holding open a door, receiving no ackowlegement, and then extremely loudly saying “You’re welcome!” There is the occassional, begrudging ‘thank you’, but primarily nasty looks which I take as people hating to be called on the carpet for bad behavior.

um, nobody liked Aunt Bea…either ROFLMAO!! They DID like her cooking and pies, however.

By The Other Jack

November 19, 2007 1:54 PM | Link to this

Mara but I guess that’s just the liberal bully in me, demanding that you define the word the way I define it…8

The semantics of the word is simply a political bully.

One of the central elements of law is that it advances the common good of the people that live under that law. What common good was advanced for the people of the little Alabama county?

Do you understand the criminality of most of the ACLUs lawsuits? The ACLU lawyers always make sure the court costs in any lawsuits are included in the decisions. This means that any town they sue, pays them premium costs for their services. The amount that was paid to the ACLU lawyers for the ten commandment flap was around $300,000. That county’s annual budget couldn’t be much more than that.

So how did paying of some big dollar lawyers with money that could have been used for education, pot-holes, police officers, etc. serve the common good of the community?

And you do understand that in the Supreme Courts central chambers, the Ten Commandments are written on the walls, don’t you?

This, like most liberal causes is much more a matter of bullies with egos and lawyers making money than supporting the law.

By Mara

November 19, 2007 2:01 PM | Link to this

Net - that there seemingly a sole focus on the negative or any mis-statement. Little to no acknowledgement of valid points or directing the conversation/debate to focus on those points of agreement…or bridging the gaps where the disagreement is smallest

Andrew Sullivan had an interesting article a few weeks ago in the Atlantic magazine about that! His premise (couched in an anti-hillary/pro-obama message) was that the culture wars which began in the ‘60’s have powered this type of take-no-prisoners discourse and that it is a generational battle between the self-sacrificing “Greatest Generation” and their self-centered children, the “Baby Boomers”. Don’t know as I agreed with all of it, but it was interesting…

By NetBanker

November 19, 2007 2:03 PM | Link to this

My point is that these displays (those that are totally funded by the groups that placed them there AND those that are funded by LOCAL governments) are not prohibited by the establishment clause. I agree that they aren’t prohibited by the establishment clause, but we need to wake up to the realities of today’s America no longer being as homogeneous as it used to be and that there are far more appropriate places for religious displays (regardless of funding source) than on government properties. Personally I think the whole fight to perpetuate placing these displays on government property rather than church property is rather ridiculous. The church is far more likely to actually touch someone or attract members with the display on their property, where the person can be invited inside to share the fellowship of the congregation, than they can with a display on the courthouse lawn.

By The Other Jack

November 19, 2007 2:04 PM | Link to this

Lyrazel

The Other Jack: 1971 is NOT the 60s is it? Or is that the new math? Someone said: When blacks came to Mayberry…the show was canceled.

I won’t repeat what I said yet again. If you didn’t get the jest of it, I can’t make you any smarter.

I find it quite interesting that your nostalgia for the good old days is off a hollywood set and never was real —um, nobody liked Aunt Bea…either.

I find it interesting that you could read my ideas about the liberalization of the entertainment media and conclude that I formed my memories of my childhood from a television series.

By The Other Jack

November 19, 2007 2:11 PM | Link to this

Netbaker

I agree about the lack of manners. But I think a lot of that is just living in a big city. I have been dressed down by women for opening the door for them.

Hey!! Back off Aunt Bea. LOL!! She never really fit into the rest of the cast, did she?

The woman who played Aunt bea had a lot of problems. She was actually a Shakespearian actress who got the part because she looked like someone Andy Griffith knew. After the show, she became a recluse and died a few years later.

I hope you are happy. LOL!1

By chuck

November 19, 2007 2:11 PM | Link to this

excuse me PRECEDED

By chuck

November 19, 2007 2:22 PM | Link to this

I don’t know what it is…maybe it’s just that I am such a likeable person, but I have NEVER had anyone get on to me for opening a door and they almost ALWAYS say thank you. I did have one lady stop one time and say “After You”. In that case I said “Thank you” and I went on in.

By chuck

November 19, 2007 2:29 PM | Link to this

BTW, I’m not sure what kind of blogging time I will have tomorrow and I’ll be travelling the rest of the week, but I wanted to take this opportunity to wish all of you a Happy Thanksgiving. I truly am thankful for all of you and pray for you almost daily. I hope God blesses all of you and your families.

By No name please...

November 19, 2007 2:35 PM | Link to this

NetB, I admire you. Despite all the nastiness that embodies what we, a divided people, have become, you keep bringing around the point that we should be doing what’s right in spite of our differences. I too felt that way — passionately. I still want to feel that way, but the missing ingredient for me is faith in my fellow man. Where do you get yours?

Gandhi said we must become the change we want to see in the world. I find no fault with this logic, but it’s hard not to give up when it seems no one else is willing. Where do you get the optimism to believe that it is not a lost cause in a world where the most vocally “righteous” among us violate the most basic tenets of their own professed faith? They haven’t just lowered the bar on civilized discourse; they’re using it as a billy club in the name of the Lord. If people actually believed and practiced what they so loudly profess, I might think there’s hope going forward. As it is, extremists on both sides are so bent on destroying each other, those of us in the middle are taken down in the cross-fire. They don’t hear us because they don’t want to. If they don’t care, why do I still try?

By The Other Jack

November 19, 2007 2:39 PM | Link to this

I look like an old white guy.

When I drive my convertable, people will pull out in front of me and flip me off.

Lesbians will cross the room to try and shock me. (I wish someone would explain to lesbians that we get it … they are gay. We all saw Billie Crystal playing a gay guy on TV 35 years ago. No one is shocked.)

When I go to vote, liberals yell at me.

If I try to look pleasant and smile, they think it is a smirk.

I learned a long time ago to stay away from the front row in a comedy club.

It’s not easy being green.

By Mara

November 19, 2007 2:54 PM | Link to this

TOJ - the semantics of the word is simply a political bully

HUH?! You were attempting to convince us that liberalism is no different from fascism. That’s not political bullying…it’s downright dishonest! And to dismiss the meaning of the word (it’s etymological ‘semantics’) as mere “bullying” because it doesn’t mean what you want it to convey…well, to me, that also is dishonest. It’s like saying that words don’t need to be defined to have meaningand to say they do is mere political bullying.

And you do understand that in the Supreme Courts central chambers, the Ten Commandments are written on the walls

(sigh)…http://www.snopes.com/politics/religion/capital.asp

I don’t deny that the bas reliefs are there, but again I contend that you are applying your own definition of why they’re there.

What common good was advanced for the people of the little Alabama county?

you do realize that Alabama is part of the United States and that federal laws apply to ALL parts of the country…right? The “common good” you are looking for is the equality of representation for the closeted atheist that pays the taxes that help maintain the public lands. And the trust of the American Hindu walking into the Alabama courthouse fearing that “equal under the law” only pertains to christians. Or the perpetuation of the IDEA that religion in America is not the business of the government. There may not be a lot of atheist or hindi in Alabama, but they benefit anyway, in merely belonging to America which does have a fair share of such folks.

Frankly, I’m glad that there are watchdog groups like the ACLU, Public Citizen, Judicial Watch, Taxpayers for Common Sense, etc. It forces our government to adhere to the tenets iof all citizen being equal to the government. Tenets that haven’t always been upheld but when they are, we are infinitly stronger and richer for it.

By lozen

November 19, 2007 3:07 PM | Link to this

And I find it interesting that you could read something written by a person who lived during the 50s/60s and knows from experience what the feminist movement really stood for and conclude that I don’t know what I’m talking about. You are wrong.

LOL!! Ahhh. So you obviously have a more fair representation of who played what role: considering you are part of the movement that wants to take credit for every advancement women have made. Ahhh, yes. But of course you have a better understanding of the women’s movement and what it said to women than I do!!!

The women’s movements (1st wave and 2nd wave) are responsible for what women have obtained in the past.

We all lived the women’s movement. We are still living it. Every time you are trying to get through a door with your arms full, thank the women’s movement for no man giving a dmn about your plight.* Surprise! Someone does open the door for me in that situation; sometimes a courteous man, sometimes a thoughtful woman. I open the door for others (male or female) in that situation also. It’s common courtesy. This is not and never has been something only men do … if we women act grateful enough!

But that doesn’t change the fact that during the early days of the latest women’s movement, any woman staying at home was made to fill worthless, certainly not fulfilling her potential. And I say it again: It was not the feminist movement that made women staying at home feel worthless. We felt that way before we ever heard of the feminist movement. Men’s work was important; women’s work was not. Our society believed what women did was inconsequential. Of course some feminists pointed out the wastefulness of women with college educations not being able to live up to their potential because all women were shunted into jobs as secretaries, teachers, or nurses. There was a minuscule number of female business managers (even lower managers), attorneys, college professors, deans, women in publishing, or radio. There were no women anchoring newscasts. There were no female interns or residents at the teaching hospital where I worked in 1970. Now half or more are female. How quickly some ppl forget the past! I read the literature; I know what the aims of feminism were. Feminists were pointing out that taking care of a home and children was very important work and it was undervalued because we live in a patriarchal culture. Some feminist writers even believed “women’s work” should be included in the GNP. You are wrong.

By The Other Jack

November 19, 2007 3:14 PM | Link to this

Mara The “common good” you are looking for is the equality of representation for the closeted atheist that pays the taxes that help maintain the public lands.*

And so do the other 99.99999% of the Christians that pay taxes and live in that county.

Sorry, that letter of the law BS may sound great on CNN, but I will need a common sense reason why that county needed to pay hundreds of thousands of tax payer dollars to big city lawyers to have something that was hurting no one removed to satisfy the giant egos of the liberal world. Got anything you didn’t hear on CNN?

I’m glad you support the ACLU. You must love what they are doing for illegal immigrants. It’s their new ten commandments. They can threaten and intimidate towns all over the country for not giving illegals free run of the local budgets. With your stand against illegal immigration, I’m sure you will eventually see what I am talking about.

I would advise going to the ACLU website and see the current lawsuits they are going after. Be sure to financially support the actions they are taking in Southern California.

I personally financially support the Southeastern Legal Foundation, an organization who’s lawyers work for free and are constantly stopping the fascist ACLU habit of extorting money from small communities.

By chuck

November 19, 2007 3:22 PM | Link to this

For a look at MANY Judeo-Christian displays in a variety of Government buildings in Washington:

http://www.humanevents.com/article.php?id=2441

By The Other Jack

November 19, 2007 3:22 PM | Link to this

Men’s work was important; women’s work was not.

You as a member of the women’s movement were taught exactly that by the women’s movement. No one else thought that. Society thought they had the most important job in the world: raising our next generation.

As far as the rest of your post, I have learned nothing. Who didn’t know that? Of course the women’s movement opened many doors, but the discussion is about the women’s movement toward the role of women in the home.

You try to support your stance that the women’s movement supported that role, but then with every post, you go on and on about how much the women’s movement worked to get women out of that role. You can’t have it both ways.

By The Other Jack

November 19, 2007 3:30 PM | Link to this

Mara

In case you didn’t have the courage to go to the ACLU website, here are some cases you are going to love:

ACLU Applauds Repeal of Anti-Immigrant Ordinance in Riverside, N.J. The ACLU praised the Riverside, N.J., township council for voting to repeal an unlawful ordinance that would have punished landlords and employers for renting to or employing individuals it classified as “illegal” immigrants.

Landmark Settlement Reached in Lawsuit Challenging Conditions at Hutto Detention Center On August 27, the ACLU announced a landmark settlement with U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) that greatly improves conditions for immigrant children and their families in the T. Don Hutto detention center in Taylor, Texas.

VICTORY! Federal Court Strikes Down Hazleton’s Anti-Immigrant Ordinance On July 26, 2007, in the first trial decision of its kind, a federal court has declared unconstitutional a local ordinance that sought to punish landlords and employers for doing business with undocumented immigrants.

Civil Rights Coalition to Argue in Court Today that Arizona Employer Sanctions Law is Illegal (11/14/2007) PHOENIX –Today in U.S. District Court in Phoenix, a coalition of civil rights groups argued that the so-called Legal Arizona Workers Act illegally punishes businesses by improperly requiring their participation in a flawed work authorization verification database and would lead to discrimination against workers who are perceived as being foreign born.

Need more? There are dozens.

By Mara

November 19, 2007 3:39 PM | Link to this

TOJ - “equality of representation for the closeted atheist that pays the taxes that help maintain the public lands”. And so do the other 99.99999% of the Christians that pay taxes and live in that county.

so because there’re more Christians than my hypothetical atheists the spirit of the law need not be observed? Do you honestly believe that allowing the State to encourage fundamentalist Christianity in the courthouse is harmless?! Racism, segregation, misogyny, sexism, etc are all harmful to democracy but condoned by Christianity. To think that any state might see these issues as harmless boggles the mind.

why that county needed to pay hundreds of thousands of tax payer dollars to big city lawyers to have something that was hurting no one removed to satisfy the giant egos of the liberal world

first it had nothing to do with “ego”. It was about what was “right” and “fair” and “equal”. Nor did the county have to pay the lawyers…they could’ve done as the law required instead of fighting to keep their backwoods preferences. But they didn’t. so they paid.

I’m glad you support the ACLU. You must love what they are doing for illegal immigrants…

Unlike you, I don’t have to agree with every little thing a group does in order to support it’s mission. I don’t like the KKK either, but I think that they have as much right to spew hate as I have to ignore it. I may not like their defense of illegals, but they do ensure that the laws we make will be fair to ALL. I’m kinda American in that.

By No name please...

November 19, 2007 3:49 PM | Link to this

TOJ: I’m trying to understand how it is that you (a man?) have a better understanding of the women’s movement than Lozen — a woman who experienced the changing times from the before, during, and after stages. (I come here to learn, after all.)

It appears that you are telling her: “Lozen, your actual life experiences ARE NOT AS VALID or important as my reading of literature and opinions on this particular subject.” In essence, you’re validating her point with your contradictions. Was this your intent?

By chuck

November 19, 2007 3:50 PM | Link to this

Excuse me Mara, but can you quote that “law” for me? I don’t recall congress ever passing such a law or the President SIGNING ONE.

so because there’re more Christians than my hypothetical atheists the spirit of the law need not be observed?

By JokesOn

November 19, 2007 3:53 PM | Link to this

You would never take advice from conservatives.

Not true. I would not listen to you specifically.

Those injustices were being defended by democrats. You do understand that, don’t you? If not, perhaps you should be the one doing some reading. Show me where I mention blame towards a political faction in any of this? I blame idiots like you for bringing about slavery and inequity.

To plain stupid? You don’t know the difference between the words “to and too” but you claim that my post is too stupid to write a response. I see. LOL!!

Ha! So I did not proof read. How about your post “I honestly know know what you mean.” If you are gonna call out errors, you are either retarded or a backup singer for the Who.

That’s true TOJ. We used to have a number of posters who were capable of actual debate, but even those usually resorted to personal attacks when they saw their arguments begin to fail in the harsh light of reality. You two have been consistent arrogant a*******e$. To be patient with you would be stupid. You have show no ability to refrain from condescending remarks right out of the box. I have zero respect for you.

The thing you do not get is that most of us liberals (since that is the only way YOU are able to view things) want to provide all Americans with exactly what your bible says your god provides. Room for people to err, as long as it simply does not directly effect another persons rights. You would rather be the judge and jury of what is “good” for someone and take that choice out of their hands.

You try to support your stance that the women’s movement supported that role, but then with every post, you go on and on about how much the women’s movement worked to get women out of that role. You can’t have it both ways.

Yeah they can. I know many women who work and are a mother. You are quite the imbecile not to have noticed that emergence. They can also (gasp!) choose one or the other, so in reality they can not have it either way and not only your way.

By chuck

November 19, 2007 3:55 PM | Link to this

UHHHH…NNP, are you saying that ONE PERSON’S EXPERIENCE is as valid as the documented historical record?

I was never a slave or a slave owner, but I AM a history teacher and my guess would be that I am perfectly capable of understanding slavery and in fact DO understand slavery perfectly well. If someone told me (from personal experience) that slavery wasn’t so bad, I think I would be able to point to the historical record and dispute that.

By Lyrazel

November 19, 2007 3:55 PM | Link to this

NetBanker—Politics has become a sleazy, dirty, mud-slinging, take-no-prisoners, destroy the opposition at all costs free-for-all When has it not been like that?

We all seem to need to grab the most outrageous statements and rail on those further dividing us When has it not been like that?

Chuckles & The Other Jack: None of us fit the role pundits want us to be defined as… few people are completely liberal or conservative. Most folk want change for the good but not excesses in government, same as it ever was.

By The Other Jack

November 19, 2007 3:56 PM | Link to this

Mara Racism, segregation, misogyny, sexism, etc are all harmful to democracy but condoned by Christianity.

What? Those issues have been supported by democrats, so do we erase all traces of democrats? So it is all about Christianity, isn’t it? You just admitted it. It isn’t about a religion being in a state house, it is about your inate bias toward Christians. That’s bigotry and religious bigotry to boot.

first it had nothing to do with “ego”. It was about what was “right” and “fair” and “equal”.

That’s laughable. I get your sermon. I’m just asking for explanations and facts.

What was “right” about it? The same thing is allowed in the Federal Supreme court

What was fair about the tax payers that paid off big city attorneys with money that could have paid for school books?

What was equal about any of this?

It is all about ego. You really can’t see the reason any of this took place?

I may not like their defense of illegals, but they do ensure that the laws we make will be fair to ALL. I’m kinda American in that.

I’m still waiting on an explanation of what was fair about tax payers paying hundreds of thousands of dollars to high priced lawyers instead of that money being used to educate those tax payer’s children. I’m kind of American about that.

By The Other Jack

November 19, 2007 3:59 PM | Link to this

No Nmae Please

We all have life experiences. Hers are no more valid than mine. we all lived the experience.

By The Other Jack

November 19, 2007 4:01 PM | Link to this

Jokes On No respect?

No surprise.

No response, either.

Have a good bigoted day, pal.

By chuck

November 19, 2007 4:04 PM | Link to this

jokeson, you have a reall skewed idea of what conservative Christians want. Yo really have to stop listening to those loonies on the clinton news network. I don’t want to be ANYBODY’s judge OR jury much less both. I’m going to have enough of that kind of trouble on my own. However, God is going to be BOTH judge and jury. People like me just point that out. We are more like nosy neighbors in that regard as much as it pains me to admit it.

By NNP

November 19, 2007 4:14 PM | Link to this

TOJ: Of course we all have life experiences! But as a woman, I don’t purport to know what it’s like to walk around wearing (and acting like) a big giant pr—k. I watch a lot of football, Dude. Can quote stats and scores from games I enjoyed, as well as those whose outcome disappointed me greatly. Doesn’t mean I know what the quarterback experiences when he lets the pass fly off his fingertips while getting sacked, now does it?

By NetBanker

November 19, 2007 4:16 PM | Link to this

The ACLU lawyers always make sure the court costs in any lawsuits are included in the decisions. This means that any town they sue, pays them premium costs for their services. Having the losing part pay the court costs is not an unusual legal tactic. It is used as leverage to get the parties involved to THINK about the potential costs that could be incurred by proceeding with a suit in order to push the parties to settle the matter outside court. Sometimes it’s just not worth fighting a battle merely on principle…especially when legal precedent is not on your side.

I think a lot of that is just living in a big city It could be, but having been a resident of some city or other for the majority of my adult life I’m of the opinion that it is purely a matter of bad manners…or good manners not being taught in the first place rather than the city itself.

By JokesOn

November 19, 2007 4:20 PM | Link to this

Have a good bigoted day, pal.

Used to teh name calling, but lets not outright lie or use the wron word, mind you. Maybe BigToed (right up your you know), but bigoted? Once again: Where, or are you just showing your lack again?

jokeson, you have a reall skewed idea of what conservative Christians want. Yo really have to stop listening to those loonies on the clinton news network. Once again, since you cannot read, I am refering to you specifically. I am also refering to what you have posted today and in the past regarding how you would like people treated that did not live by your biblical laws.

By The Other Jack

November 19, 2007 4:28 PM | Link to this

NNP My discussion with her involved the stance that the women’s movement supported the idea of women staying home and not working. That was her stance.

I don’t care if she is Margaret Thatcher. That is wrong and I don’t need to get irritable every 28 days to know that it is wrong.

The women’s movement supported the exact opposite.

According to most liberals, White men do not or have ever known a single thing because we have not lived as a woman, Black person, immigrant worker, gay person, stc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc.

I wonder why we still own everything?

By The Other Jack

November 19, 2007 4:31 PM | Link to this

jokesOn Your lack of proof reading is saying more than you ever could. You should quit while you are behind.

By Bruce

November 19, 2007 4:39 PM | Link to this

“Racism, segregation, misogyny, sexism, etc are all harmful to democracy but condoned by Christianity.”

I consider that statement as HATE speach. Please apologize our I will be forced to call teh ACLU.

By Bruce

November 19, 2007 4:39 PM | Link to this

“Racism, segregation, misogyny, sexism, etc are all harmful to democracy but condoned by Christianity.”

I consider that statement as HATE speach. Please apologize our I will be forced to call the ACLU.

By The Other Jack

November 19, 2007 4:43 PM | Link to this

NetBaker The ACLU is changing direction. The anti-religious tact is just drying up. They were going to sue the City of Los Angeles for the City Logo, but the city simply backed down and changed the logo. That is happening everywhere and when the money dries up, the nobility of enforcing laws change quickly.

Lawyers make money from big fights, not out-of-court settlements or backing down by anyone.

Immigration is their new battle field. Cities HAVE to make laws discriminating against illegals because our cities are running out of money. These ACLU prompted lawsuits are easy to win and every city has to fight the fight.

People like Mara are going to be very disappointed when she sees her little anti-Christian crusaders become pro-illegal immigration crusaders.

By JokesOn

November 19, 2007 4:50 PM | Link to this

jokesOn Your lack of proof reading is saying more than you ever could. You should quit while you are behind.

Once again the same bs. Name calling, picking apart blog posts, binary thinking, and grandiose ego excaiming how right you are.

It is people like you that lead to holocausts.

I wonder why we still own everything? Yeah. I am the bigoted and obtuse one. At one point you complkain that whites cannot compete against minority owned/based companies, and now you admit there is still evidence of white having a monopoly. You are not behind. You are outside of reality.

According to most liberals, White men do not or have ever known a single thing because we have not lived as a woman, Black person, immigrant worker, gay person, stc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. Don’t you mean never? And what is stc? Or do you mean etc? Ohhh - you did not proof read your post! (slippery slope you start with that inane argument)

By The Other Jack

November 19, 2007 5:04 PM | Link to this

JokesOn It is people like you that lead to holocausts.

Any response to that would only add to your slobbering hate.

Oh yea, Sometimes we are not allowed to compete. But White Men always have the ability.

By NetBanker

November 19, 2007 5:04 PM | Link to this

I still want to feel that way, but the missing ingredient for me is faith in my fellow man. Where do you get yours? Thanks for the compliment NNP, but I don’t know that it is deserved. I think maybe it’s just that I’m pretty much an optomist and upbeat about life. Maybe it was engrained in me by my family that while we may be judged on what we say God and others put more stock into what we do therefore we must live our lives as an example to others. I can hear my Grandma whispering in my ear “Crying never fixed thing…let’s dry those tears, pick yourself up, dust yourself off, hold your head up high, and you keep going til you show them who’s right.”

I also think that you need to look for a small kindness in every day that was done for you and be sure to bestow one on someone else. They seem to be more rare these days which is why they are more precious, more surprising, and more appreciated. Faith in my fellow man is often restored in unexpected times in unexpected ways.

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November 20, 2007 7:25 AM | Link to this

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By Mara

November 20, 2007 8:29 AM | Link to this

.

Hey folks. Well, I’ve had it. That’s it, I’m done. Kaput. Finished. Like so many other regulars, I’ve had enough. Between the spam, the incivility, the blogname “borrowers”, the contempt, the weaseling, and the inability of some to argue without insult…well, I’m over it. Some will try to spin this as some sort of “fear” or as “running away” but really it’s just…disgust. Though I might drop by every now and then, I doubt I’ll be posting. Hope you all have a safe, joy-filled holiday season. Good bye.

By lovelyliz

November 20, 2007 9:13 AM | Link to this

The good ole days weren’t always good and tomorrow ain’t as bad as it seems - Billy Joel

I for one don’t long for the days when I couldn’t date outside of my race and when women had to stay marriage to very bad men because there was no alternative.

I for one don’t long for the days of Leave It To Beaver because that was a fictional show.

I for one don’t long for the days when what a person said in public defined who they were as opposed to what their action showed.

I for one don’t long for the days when a woman was blamed for being raped.

I don’t long for the days when a homosexual had to hide in the closet or risk life and limb.

I don’t long for the days when anyone who was different was defined by stereotypes.

The legacy of the 60’s isn’t perfect, but neither is it the cause of all that is wrong with our world. Giving people alternatives does not force them to be one way or another.

By RF

November 20, 2007 9:14 AM | Link to this

I also think that you need to look for a small kindness in every day that was done for you and be sure to bestow one on someone else

How true, how true. Instead of constantly looking for the problems in life and something to fret over, we should see the often small human kindnesses we still do for one another. I tell my boys this all the time- you get out of life only what you put into it. And there are plenty of nay-sayers and dooms-day folks to go around. God may be the ultimate judge, but there are plenty of “witnesses” making sure they get their testimony in order before they go to court!!

By lovelyliz

November 20, 2007 9:15 AM | Link to this

Would somebody please remove the spam?

Somebody has the capability.

By lovelyliz

November 20, 2007 9:18 AM | Link to this

All though they are both fictional, more families were and are like All In The Family than they ever were like The Andy Griffith Show

By lozen

November 20, 2007 9:37 AM | Link to this

Mara, I understand why you feel the way you do. I’ve reached the same point many times. I think Netbanker is right. Ppl can become their worst selves on an anonymous blog. Perhaps, if we met TOJ or Chuck in person, we would never believe they were the same ppl we encounter here. (Well, chuck anyway. I suspect TOJ is just a nasty, rude, mean SOB 24/7.) If you think this one is bad check out the Luckovic one! I hope you will stay around and not let the nasty ppl get you down.

By RF

November 20, 2007 9:39 AM | Link to this

The legacy of the 60’s isn’t perfect, but neither is it the cause of all that is wrong with our world. Giving people alternatives does not force them to be one way or another

liz- there’s a line from the movie The American President where the president says something to the effect of “they don’t want to talk about how to fix the problems, they want to talk about who’s to blame for the problems and make you afraid.” (bad paraphrase) To me, that’s what a discussion such as this does. Yeah, we have problems in our society. We had them before the sixties, in droves, and will have them into perpetuity. The sixties simply brought the issues out and made us face them. Unfortunately, you don’t get to pick and choose what comes out of Pandora’s box when you open it, but it needed to be opened so that we could truly begin to face and try to deal with some of the problems in our society. It took generations to get where we were then, and it’s going to make generations more to solve the problems the sixties made known. You have to go back much further in time to find the “blame” for our society’s problems.

By RF

November 20, 2007 9:45 AM | Link to this

Giving people alternatives does not force them to be one way or another

The trend these days seems to be to pigeon-hole everyone into a category and make those categories clearly good or bad. The way to control people is often to make them afraid or suspicious of anyone who isn’t like them. We’re in a time when division, suspicion, and fear seem to be the guiding principles, along with a nostalgia for ‘the good old days’. Yeah, the good old days of narrow-minded, puritanical self-denial and rigid social roles. I’m glad I missed those days.

By lozen

November 20, 2007 9:51 AM | Link to this

Hey RF the kids gone already? Do you have the whole week off (well, you know without the students)? It’s good to hear another reasonable, thinking person on here.

By RF

November 20, 2007 10:03 AM | Link to this

Hey lozen! I’m off for the week. WHEW!! We’re enjoying a couple of days of R&R before the fam-dam-ily gathers. I’ve got the kitchen counters covered with all kinds of goodies and dusting off the cake pans and recipe books. I LOVE this time of year to cook and make ornaments and decorate and sit around in my pj’s until noon!

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November 20, 2007 10:26 AM | Link to this

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November 20, 2007 10:26 AM | Link to this

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November 20, 2007 10:26 AM | Link to this

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By chuck

November 20, 2007 10:29 AM | Link to this

Hey RF. Are you having a good year so far? I’ve had a student teacher so I haven’t graded many papers since September. He’s teaching full time right now so it gives me some time when I’m not out covering classes and solving other folks’ tech problems. So far an easy year for me.

By Archie

November 20, 2007 10:35 AM | Link to this

I think there are some positives and negatives to come out of the 60’s. I think some of the music was great and I am definitely grateful for civil rights and even though I am a man I am glad that women have more rights as a result of the 60’s movement but I think the proliferation of the drug culture is something I don’t think we as a nation have ever recovered from and I think the sexual revolution hasn’t worked out for many people as it is too much sexual disease and too much sex without thought going on as a result of the free love era and I say that as a guy that likes sex.

As for the incivility the internet is rife with that kind of behavior but keep in mind just a few weeks ago this blog had a very good,civil, and on-point discussion going on and people disagreed with each other but yet it was interesting.

By RF

November 20, 2007 10:37 AM | Link to this

chuck- I loved having student teachers. Haven’t done that in a while. I’m having a great year so far. I’m teaching reading, which is my passion. It’s amazing how many kids work their way through the grades without getting beyond a third grade reading level.

By The Other Jack

November 20, 2007 10:55 AM | Link to this

Mara

Doesn’t feel good to have someone call you on why you were really against the Alabama Ten Commandment issue, was it? I just repeated back to you what you had said.

Yesterday I was told that people like me caused the holocaust. I’ve been called every name in the book and constantly attacked for things I never even said. This morning I was called a mean old SOB. (In person, he would not have walked away from that insult) But you have something just repeated right back to you that you actually said and you go running off.

Liberals are wimps. You want to say whatever you want to conservatives, but when they respond in kind, you whine and gripe and cry.

I don’t come here often simply because of the lack of political education by most on the forum. I spend more time corrected other’s lack of education than I do presenting points. Yesterday, I was told that George Wallace was a Republican. When the ignorance is that obvious, there are just not that many topics that can be intelligently discussed.

Tell you what. You stick around with your insulting, whiny, rude dim-witted little liberal friends and I’ll go somewhere where the average IQ is in the triple digits.

Have a good, pathetic, whining liberal life. Good luck with your bigotry toward Christians and Mexicans. (You democrats need to put the days of Robert Byrd and Orval Faubus behind you and step into the 21st century) Bigotry is soooo yesterday.

By lovelyliz

November 20, 2007 11:08 AM | Link to this

Bigotry is soooo yesterday.

What fantasy world do you live in?

By RF

November 20, 2007 11:14 AM | Link to this

You stick around with your insulting, whiny, rude dim-witted little liberal friends and I’ll go somewhere where the average IQ is in the triple digits And that’s NOT bigoted??! Pot calling the kettle black, don’t you think?

Watch for the decimal point. Likely as not it’s before the three digit number in that crowd.

By Jack

November 20, 2007 11:24 AM | Link to this

Mara is right. Let’s just run all the regulars off the blog for Chrissakes! Hard to tell who is more arrogant, Chuck or TOJ. Oh Lord it’s hard to be humble when you’re perfect in every way. Yes, your’s stinks too fellows.

By RF

November 20, 2007 11:30 AM | Link to this

I think the proliferation of the drug culture is something I don’t think we as a nation have ever recovered from

Archie- I read somewhere a while back that the “drug culture” of the sixties was well on its way to happening anyway. Drugs were already present in many major cities but weren’t getting much public attention until Woodstock. Let’s face it, Jimi Hendrix didn’t get a phone call in 1965 from his manager saying, “hey Jimi, have I got an image for you you! Go sell the station wagon and let’s you get you hooked on heroin—you’ll sell millions of records!” The sixties just brought public attention to what was developing already and upped the popularity.

By JokesOn

November 20, 2007 11:40 AM | Link to this

Have a good, pathetic, whining liberal life.

I read back when you first posted. You know, where you insisted we have your conversation about religion and how it should be a template for government? And when no one wanted to either agree with you or have that discussion, you whined like a baby and called names buddy.

You lie about what others have posted: “It is people like you that lead to holocausts” and “It is people like you that caused the holocausts” are two different things. With your superior abilities you should be able to discern such things; hence why I think you lie about another’s argument. It is an easy way to “win.”

By Lyrazel

November 20, 2007 11:42 AM | Link to this

The Other Jack—Good bye. Enjoy your triple digit IQs (whatever that means since most people have an IQ have 100+) of course they tend to communicate with more than monosyllabic diatribes. It was nicer having Mara around anyway. Waves

To the REAL Jack: Thanks for the compliment yesterday, but it always strikes me as odd people say I am wise. I just lived awhile. As we learned in skül: We grow too old to late smart.

To the blog OWNERS: Sure would be nice if you showed some respect to us and cleaned up the spam in YOUR blog. Do you want our comments or just count the numbers of hits? One of you rallies against moral decay and the other rallies for respect for women but damn there is a lot of spam for big jugs and and illegal prescription drugs… Makes me wonder if you both are blank faces and this site is just for hits. No other place in the AJC offers free advertising like this blog.

By lozen

November 20, 2007 11:44 AM | Link to this

Archie, what do you think about the idea that drugs were purposely introduced into the black community to keep this country from having a real revolution?

By JokesOn

November 20, 2007 11:50 AM | Link to this

I think the proliferation of the drug culture is something I don’t think we as a nation have ever recovered from

Although there was obviously a spike in the 60s(pot/ hallucinogens), and another in the 70s (coke); the general usage actually has changed less than .5% since drugs were made illegal.

By chuck

November 20, 2007 12:38 PM | Link to this

Ar-ro-gant Hey Jack, 3 syllables. Pretty good.

By RF

November 20, 2007 12:51 PM | Link to this

Here’s a thought I often have and have shared I’m sure. While either side of an issue throws insults, the real work usually gets done in the middle. It’s the compromise and debate that usually lead to progress. As we become more politically polarized in this country and try to force people to be on one side or the other, the irony is that the extremes are what makes the system work. Like magnets, if you think about it. The diametrically opposed charge is what draws the magnets together to create a strong bond. We have to quit putting “the other side” down and realize that the extremes are what makes the bond in the middle happen. The founding fathers realized this and wrote the constitution so that neither side would ever take control and so that all the opposites could remain intact. Then, and only then, will the system be able to work. The conservatives have their points and so do the liberals, depending on the issue.

By Gandalf (the White ONE)

November 20, 2007 12:55 PM | Link to this

What I remember is Walter Cronkite telling us each evening how many boys died in Viet Nam, and how national opinion shifted by seeing this. With out TV perhaps Johnson would have let our boys go after those communists as they crossed lines on the mapand destroyed the movement. 1960’s bad for America. We win every battle and lose the war, kinda backwards isn’t it?

By RoyMoore

November 20, 2007 1:07 PM | Link to this

Speaking of EGO, I have the greatest.

(Signed) The Divine (former Judge) and his Royal A-R-S-E-ness Roy Moore.

By B

November 20, 2007 1:57 PM | Link to this

Geez—I miss the blog for a few weeks and now it’s falling apart….

By lozen

November 20, 2007 2:15 PM | Link to this

Gandalf, that post was a bit hard to understand. Are you saying you think we should have our wars and not allow anyone in this country to know ppl are dying? Are you saying we should pretend nobody dies in a war? We lost the war in Vietnam and the world didn’t end. The commies didn’t take over. What was the point of that never-declared-war anyway? Oh, I remember - it was the domino thingie. Didn’t happen, did it?

By B

November 20, 2007 2:17 PM | Link to this

NetB—Good advice on how to be happy in this life.

My own experience suggests that happiness and expectations are intimately connected. So many folks here in the US seem to have such unrealistic expectations about life that they paint themselves into a no-win situation, happiness-wise.

By B

November 20, 2007 2:19 PM | Link to this

NNP—Based on your blogging history, I’m a little surprised to see that you perceive yourself as somehow being in “the middle” politically. I’ll take your word for it that you truly come to the blog to learn.

By Archie

November 20, 2007 2:20 PM | Link to this

Thanks to Lozen and RF for trying to keep good discussion going.Archie, what do you think about the idea that drugs were purposely introduced into the black community to keep this country from having a real revolution? It’s hard for me to believe but when I look at the series on BET called American Gangster then I think maybe what you suggest is true but it’s still hard for me to believe yet with the volume of drugs that were present on the east and west coast communities it makes me think someone was told to look the other way. Let me be clear that the black gangsters did a lot of damage to their community all by themselves. Also, Rf you may be right that drugs were going to be a big presence anyway in society but that 60’s drug culture was not a good thing in keeping with the topic. JokesOn, I question whether or not usage has only gone up a little because I would be interested in knowing how that’s determined. I will use this analogy to show why I question those numbers. The divorce rate is 50 percent according to various sources well here at my office of the 3 people sitting in front of me 2 of them have been through a divorce and if I include myself that would make the rate 50 percent because I have not been through a divorce. My point is if stats are correct you ought to be able to see something that reflects those numbers even in an unscientific way.

By B

November 20, 2007 2:22 PM | Link to this

Mara—Sorry to see you leave the blog. Like all of us, you have your own unique political slant on everything, but you do bring a lot of intelligence and charisma to the table.

Hope you consider coming back.

By B

November 20, 2007 2:26 PM | Link to this

lozen—Do you know any Vietnamese people on a personal basis?? I don’t think they share your “the world didn’t end” mentality regarding the Vietnam War.

By B

November 20, 2007 2:45 PM | Link to this

Hope everyone enjoys the day off on Thursday and Friday. I would say “Happy T-Day”, but I have always felt that well wishes for these fake “family” holidays to be insincere. I guess it’s because there typically wasn’t much joy around my household while growing up during Thanksgiving and Christmas. Oh well. I think that’s why I prefer hlidays like the 4th of July—No pressure to act “happy”.

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November 20, 2007 2:47 PM | Link to this

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November 20, 2007 2:47 PM | Link to this

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By Scalia

November 20, 2007 2:56 PM | Link to this

Glad that you are back, RF. You are still my blog crush. Glad to see that you are teaching what you are passionate about. If teachers could actually get past the other nonsense and actually teach what they love, the kids would learn so much more.

By Jack

November 20, 2007 3:03 PM | Link to this

Hey Dog. Too much vitrol now. Chuck and TOJ are now in the league with Randy and Zack. Hope all is well.

Love to all.

By RF

November 20, 2007 3:35 PM | Link to this

Scalia- I have a philosophy that if I’m not having fun, then I owe it to myself, and more importantly the kids, to find something else to do. I’ve had a year here and there that weren’t fun, but when I realized it I made changes. Which goes to what B posted about happiness—you make your own. You are so right about teachers— the effective ones are the ones with a passion for kids and what they teach them.

Archie- the 60’s definitely popularized drug use, but what’s interesting is how few aging hippies there are still around. Many sought help or found another way to live as the 70’s and 80’s rolled past. My parents were young adults then, and they’ve talked about how many of their friends, who are fine, upstanding pillars of the community these days, went through the drug culture of the 60’s and eventually outgrew it. The drug trade, which was already lucrative in Europe, would have eventually gotten here. There was just too much market and too many disillusioned youth running around loose then—kids who were the product of the oh-so-wonderful 50’s. Makes you wonder how great the old days were if they produced young people so easily swayed to the drug culture.

By B

November 20, 2007 4:16 PM | Link to this

Hey Jack—Thanks for the well wishes. Things appear to be looking up for me right now. I’ve been staying sober for the most part and am looking forward to returning to work.

Hope all is well with you and your “brood”.

By lovelyliz

November 20, 2007 4:21 PM | Link to this

They just kept everything quite in the good ole days.

As if it wasn’t publicly acknowledged meant it didn’t happen.

By B

November 20, 2007 4:26 PM | Link to this

It is a little sad to see the blog so “down”, Jack. I agree with many of TOJ’s ideas, but like me, I think he needs to keep working on the presentation. As for chuck, I truly believe he is a polite person in the flesh, but he unfortunately uses the vent to attack others “anonymously”, which severely diminishes his message.

Of course, it’s even sadder to hear NNP’s ongoing cries of distress. I know if you could impact her situation in any positive way, you would do it in a heartbeat for her, Jack, as I would too. But, I guess we’re all meant to bear our own crosses in life…….

By NetBanker

November 20, 2007 4:31 PM | Link to this

Hey kids! Well I see I missed my old bud RF (~waving and sending a cyber hug~) and that Mara is leaving us (~tear at corner of eye~). One would think that maybe, just maybe the week of Thanksgiving we’d give the nastiness a break. Oh well!

Since I probably won’t be around tomorrow and then it’s off for a vacation next week, I just want to take a second to wish everyone a Happy Thanksgiving. May you each be blessed with many things and people for which to be thankful. Please don’t forget to remind yourself that there are those less fortunate than we. If you think you might “have enough” please consider adopting a Military Family this holiday season or making donations in the name of family members rather than exchanging gifts…I’ve told my family that this is what I want for my gift this year.

By B

November 20, 2007 4:36 PM | Link to this

k—You’re too beautiful to be unhappy. How about sharing a big smile with everyone before the holidays? ; > }

You are loved.

By B

November 20, 2007 4:37 PM | Link to this

Lots of love to you also, NetB.

By B

November 20, 2007 4:39 PM | Link to this

Mara—We just took a vote here on W2W, and have decided that you’re not allowed to leave.

By RF

November 20, 2007 4:49 PM | Link to this

net- best holiday wishes to you also!! I’m looking forward to some family time the rest of the week myself. My brood has decided that we’re not buying for the adults this year and keeping it simple for the ‘younguns’. With gas and groceries getting so expensive, this is likely to be a lean season for many in this country. For me, it’s all about spending time with the family we love (and gossipping about the in-laws and outlaws we don’t love) :-)

By B

November 20, 2007 5:03 PM | Link to this

I guess my Thaksgiving kindness this year will be to forgive the person who hit-and-ran my car at the library today. Thank God I’ve been on a winning streak at poker the last two months to pay for the damages.

By careybagsbon

November 20, 2007 8:16 PM | Link to this

Greetings to all.

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By careybagsbon

November 20, 2007 10:53 PM | Link to this

Greetings to all.

Prompt the best online shop on sale of Books.

By Sandra-ix

November 21, 2007 8:41 AM | Link to this

By Vilyampm

November 21, 2007 8:51 AM | Link to this

By Alexeej

November 21, 2007 8:52 AM | Link to this

By The Other Jack

November 21, 2007 9:59 AM | Link to this

I hope everyone has a great Thanksgiving.

There are some very good, intelligent people on this forum. There are also some real ill-educated jerks that resort to name calling at any chance. JokesOn is probably the worst.

If anyone is interested, please go through my posts and go through the responses to my posts and see who is calling names and being rude.

I understand that everyone loves and respects Mara. Yesterday, we had a long discussion about the ACLU and their role in bullying the little county in Alabama that had the Ten Commandments in the lobby of their courthouse.

She was very sanctimonious about how American it was to force everyone to live by the letter of any court judgment; that is, until she let it slip out that it was actually all about the sins of Christianity of the past that she had a problem with. Considering that she supports the political party that started the KKK, past sins is hardly a subject that she should approach.

Judging an entire segment of our population because of their religious convictions is bigotry, folks, I don’t care how politically correct that kind of bigotry might be.

Mara sells herself on her kindness. She is the typical liberal who is convinced that there is nothing any liberal could do that would be bad. Christianity has been designated by the Democratic left as the great Satan of America. Anyone who is Christian has to be bad, any Christian cause is wrong.

I was taught many years ago that there is a very easy litmus test for judging whether I am being bigoted against any group of people: Take the worst thing you have to say about those people. Then replace whatever those people are called with the word “Black”. Now look at the last sentence in the last paragraph and replace the word Christian with the word Black.

Sounds racist and bigoted now, doesn’t it? That’s the point.

I was told by the babbling and ignorant JokesOn that people like me started the holocaust. People pointing out bigotry and the indoctrination of the German people as to what is OK to be bigoted against might have prevented the murder of 6 million people, simply because of their religious convictions.

Bigotry is bad. It is not acceptable against any group of people and religious bigotry is the oldest and worst kind of bigotry. The fact that the same party that fought against integration is now fighting against a religious group is no surprise to anyone who knows the history of the Democratic Party. BUT IT IS WRONG!!!

Now I am sure this post will be greeted by several like JokesOn going Ape calling names and slobbering all over their keyboards. But I also notice that no one ever calls them on it while attacking Chuck and myself for anything said out of line. Once again, lower standards for liberals’ behavior. I would think that liberals would have a huge problem with that.

By JokesOn

November 21, 2007 10:27 AM | Link to this

But I also notice that no one ever calls them on it while attacking Chuck and myself for anything said out of line. Maybe because it is understandable in the face of such arrogance?

First Blood:

*Take a look up and down the postings, Einstein. How many references do you see and how many opinions do you see? Or are you just a fairly dim witted person who believes that only persons who don’t walk in goosestep with your own close-minded thinking should be held to a different standard. *

You post like an arrogant a$$ that insists you can school everyone on here. Constantly snide and dismissing everyone as you did in the above reference.

You have regularly taken people out of context and even changed their text to fit your argument.

Most people learn by 25ish that talking AT people never gets a debate anywhere, yet you have been persistent in continuing.

And I really thought you were gone, damn.

By Drooling Blonde Sloth with an IQ of 3

November 21, 2007 10:50 AM | Link to this

I agrea with the othur Jack. His relly smart.

By RF

November 21, 2007 10:58 AM | Link to this

Christianity has been designated by the Democratic left as the great Satan of America. Anyone who is Christian has to be bad, any Christian cause is wrong

So, one can’t be liberal and believe in God?? WHEW, thank goodness I’m a moderate—I’d get kicked out of the Democratic party apparently. Unfortunately, some of the best Christians I know, people who live as Christ did and share Christ with others every day are also liberals. Man, are they confused or what?

Your statements are bit excessive, don’t you think? The “liberals” you refer to don’t see Christianity as bad, they see the human manipulation of it as bad. Too many pulpits in this country are being used to promote fear, mistrust, and anxiety. Anyone who isn’t standing in the church building is suspect and dangerous. It really isn’t much different than the way extremists all over the world use religion to motivate their soldiers. We just present a more civilized, less violent version. I quit going to church because all I heard was what’s wrong with the world and who’s to blame and less and less about how to live as Christ would live. It’s become popular to be separatists and judges now, and I for one don’t buy into it. It’s not Christianity the liberals hate, it’s the way so many use it to promote fear and judgment. God is awesome, but boy has man turned him into a malevolent force. We use religion to excuse our own fear and anger—and it’s all okay because “God” said so.

Happy Thanksgiving to one and all. I’m off to set up tables and cook some more. Enjoy the holiday with friends, family, or just a good book. But definitely take time to think about how blessed we are to be alive and have food to eat.

By Archie

November 21, 2007 11:08 AM | Link to this

TOJ you resort to namecalling at any chance and you’re real quick to insult JokesON. I realize this is an internet blog but you still can have a civil debate because there have been many conservatives such as Bruce,Ken,etc. that debate without calling someone ignorant or other names. You insulted me then you backed off because like I said you don’t have to think like me. Also please note that most democrats are christians and I know that because I am both. One of the things I never hear from the conservative christian side is the idea of forgiveness. It’s important because the Lord’s prayer says “forgive us our trepasses and forgive those who trepass against us” and after reading all these posts from people who say they believe in christianity that’s the one thing I have not read. I do not agree with atheism and agnosticism but I don’t agree plastering the Ten Commandments all over government buildings some of the other stuff so-called christians do. I also have a problem with atheists and their extremeism but do note that democrats are not against christianity.

By JokesOn

November 21, 2007 11:53 AM | Link to this

Another quote:

I can’t make you any smarter, half-wit. Your best option would be to go to forums where people are more like you.

And the end of being civil to you started here:

By JokesOn October 24, 2007 12:24 PM | Link to this

TOJ: READ MY POSTS BEFORE YOU USE THAT INBRED LIBERAL BIGOTRY AGAINST ANY IDEA YOU DON’T READ ON SALON.

Me: I was polite to you, although I am sure you did not find my opinion palatable, and you reply with that?

Me: How wonderfully christain.

Me: Ill quote you to end this post: but I consider that kind of narrow minded attempt at an insult, lowbrow, classless and rather desperate. And if there is one thing I certainly don’t need here is to resort to adolescent attempts at insults to prove my points.

By Jack

November 21, 2007 12:41 PM | Link to this

JokesOn & Archie. Have a Great Thanksgiving! Later.

By Anonymous

November 21, 2007 12:50 PM | Link to this

TOJ’s simply another bitter, mean-spirited loser who loves to blog. Pay him no mind.

By JokesOn

November 21, 2007 1:25 PM | Link to this

JokesOn & Archie. Have a Great Thanksgiving! Later.

Happy Thanksgiving to all. Be safe.

By B

November 21, 2007 2:14 PM | Link to this

Hey Drooling Blond Sloth With an IQ of 3—Are you single? I had to get rid of the GF a couple of days ago and am back on the “market”.

By B

November 21, 2007 2:16 PM | Link to this

JokesOn—If you’re still on board, I want to say “thanks” for your honest and reasonable approach to the blog.

By JokesOn

November 21, 2007 2:36 PM | Link to this

JokesOn—If you’re still on board, I want to say “thanks” for your honest and reasonable approach to the blog.

Thank you for the complement. Although there are many times that I do not exhibit that behavior, I am glad that you and some others see the greater theme I try to present.

Hey Drooling Blond Sloth With an IQ of 3—Are you single? I had to get rid of the GF a couple of days ago and am back on the “market”. Sorry to hear that. You sound good in spite of it, but I suspect you hide your disappointment - keep your chin up.

By NetBanker

November 21, 2007 3:07 PM | Link to this

I had to get rid of the GF a couple of days ago What’s the scoop, B? And be careful with the language you use….almost makes it sound like you ‘done her in.’

I’m outta here for the holiday. Happy Thanksgiving to all! And wish me luck in the casinos while I’m on vacation next week…not that I ever gamble more than $100 in a night.

By B

November 21, 2007 4:32 PM | Link to this

but I suspect you hide your disappointment - keep your chin up.

The good news is that we’re going to remain best friends” until we both get back on our feet and on our separate ways in life. I will always love her, as I do any woman kind enough to share her time with me.

By B

November 21, 2007 4:36 PM | Link to this

And be careful with the language you use….almost makes it sound like you ‘done her in.’

Don’t worry, Net. She’ll be getting several nice parting gift$$$$ from me. I always do my best to leave a “positive legacy” even after the “magic” is gone.

By B

November 21, 2007 4:45 PM | Link to this

My heart remains open, though. My dream of a long-term/permanent partner is as strong as ever.

Now, if I could only get a certain someone to share that dream….

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By The Other Jack

November 22, 2007 9:58 AM | Link to this

RF Too many pulpits in this country are being used to promote fear, mistrust, and anxiety. Anyone who isn’t standing in the church building is suspect and dangerous. It really isn’t much different than the way extremists all over the world use religion to motivate their soldiers. You don’t get it. Jews control money. Blacks commit more crimes, Irish drink, Japanese started Pearl Harbor, white people hang black people, Muslims blow up innocent people. Every race, creed or religion has a reason to hate them … every single one.

But we can’t. That is what bigotry is. That is the very same ideas that really started the holocaust. That is BIGOTRY!!!!

Democrats need hate. They used it during the last century against blacks. This century it is against Christians. Would you like examples … hundreds of examples?

Bigotry is bigotry. Anti-Christian bigotry is just as bad as anti-semantic bigotry or any other kind for that matter.

Liberals love to be very sanctimonious while preaching to others that we should save the world, save the children, etc. etc. etc. Bigotry is a word they use as a hammer against anyone they don’t agree with. Too bad they are bathing in it every day.

By The Other Jack

November 22, 2007 10:02 AM | Link to this

Jokes On Thanks for slobbering all over your keyboard, just like I said you would. Your posting only my responses to your hate filled nonsense said more than I ever could.

By RF

November 22, 2007 10:24 AM | Link to this

TOJ- then basically what you’re saying is that everyone hates, right?? I can agree with that. So what’s the argument then? The liberals aren’t any worse than anyone else, if one is to accept your theory. Or are you maintaining that the conservatives in this country don’t hate?

I’d say at this point that the discussion is pointless. Everyone points fingers at the group on the other side of an issue. In my mind, that’s what makes the system in this country ultimately work by keeping the balance as two sides pull against each other. The liberals are no more right or wrong than the conservatives in my mind. As a moderate, I often see equally valid points on both sides with the balance tipping slightly depending on the issue. I have just grown very tired of the way fear is used to motivate people to join one side or the other.

Do try to relax and enjoy the soggy holiday. Be thankful we’re getting some rain at least!

By JokesOn

November 22, 2007 3:06 PM | Link to this

Jokes On Thanks for slobbering all over your keyboard, just like I said you would.

I know you need to believe that is the truth.

Your posting only my responses to your hate filled nonsense said more than I ever could.

Only because you have no ability to speak like a human. Your prose on hate proves that that is what you know well. Since you hate so much, you must believe all others do to or you would be faced with how much of an animal mindset you have, working on instict alone and what your pack has taught you.

I on the other-hand do not hate any group. I may currently dislike what some groups do, but that same group can change over time into something I can agree with. In short, I do not burn any bridges and make absolute judgements for I know all groups have a perspective that is valid. They just may be to immature to vocalize those views accurately or may be temporarily hijacked by those looking to vent their unbridled hate. That is what I see in your posts. Using an otherwise valid group (religious/political) to vent your personal hate.

By JokesOn

November 22, 2007 3:35 PM | Link to this

Your posting only my responses to your hate filled nonsense said more than I ever could.

To illustrate how blinded by hate you are here is my post that got such a hate filled end-response from you:

By The Other Jack

October 24, 2007 12:03 PM | Link to this

Me: I have to be honest with you. You state that promiscuity is not your argument, but then write paragraphs on it. If it does not apply to your position, why bring it up?

You: Why is it an argument?

(an argument btw is not only a verbal bashing, but also a side of a discussion. Sorry for expecting you know be able to understand that)

Me: And your position of religion is fine for YOU to live by, but has zero bearing on the topic when talking governmental policy.

You: I am attempting to connect government policy and ancient religious laws.

Me: In re-reading your posts I have only found one theme, bashing others position without stating your own. You do allude to religion a lot, but dismiss it yourself at times as well; as you have with promiscuity as well.

You: Better go back and re-read them again. What positions were offered that wasn’t just one close minded jump after another to condemn anyone who dared bring up the subject of religion?

Me: I am convinced that you are here purely to sound superior and not to really add to the conversation. Any of us could snipe from the sidelines all day and not state a position.

You: I know. And sadly enough, I am convinced that would be your position against anyone who even mentioned religion. I was a touring musician during the 70s. I am hardly in a position to condemn anyone, but it would be nice to convey my ideas without this constant barrage of attacks. I have never seen a more close minded and bigoted group of people in my life.

You: READ MY POSTS BEFORE YOU USE THAT INBRED LIBERAL BIGOTRY AGAINST ANY IDEA YOU DON’T READ ON SALON.

(honestly, I do not even know what “salon” is;)

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By The Other Jack

November 23, 2007 10:19 AM | Link to this

RF TOJ- then basically what you’re saying is that everyone hates, right?? I can agree with that.

That is not at all what I am saying at all. For one thing, not all people hate. But the issue is judging any person or group of people because of preconceived notions about that group of people. That is called bigotry, and the fact that a particular political party defends that hate against Christians is troubling to say the least.

We have already seen the potential harm. The harm is the Holocaust.

Jews were hated by the Germans and if you read Goebbel’s propaganda, their reasons for hating the Jews is a lot like the very same reasons that so many liberals hate Christians. It is all about the same kind of past sins that you wrote in the last post. Christians are in charge. Christians have all the money. Christians have all the power.

It is not excusable, it is never excusable and blowing it off by saying that there is no discussion because everyone hates is as dangerous a reaction as I have ever seen.

So what’s the argument then? The liberals aren’t any worse than anyone else,

Yes they are. Nothing inspires people like hate and the Democratic party lives on emotions like hate. The entire government of every state in the South was controlled completely by Democrats. Not a single Republican politician was elected in the South during the 50s, 60s or 70s.

And it wasn’t just the South: South Boston, John Kerry’s own district was the home of the Boston Busing riots, the most bloody and long lasting race riots in the country. Los Angeles, New York, Chicago, all had huge problems with race riots and if you take the time to look at the leadership that was fighting integration, it was the Democrats at every turn.

if one is to accept your theory. Or are you maintaining that the conservatives in this country don’t hate?

Conservatives are guilty of bigotry against illegal aliens. I personally think they have the same rights as anyone else coming here, but many liberals, including Mara also have a huge problem with illegals. But it still isn’t the same. They hate what the illegals are doing to our country. I’m sure some hate the actual people, but nothing like the vile hate that so many liberals have against Christians.

Liberals claim that Christians hurt the country, also, but no one can quite say how. Can you? You say they preach fear, but considering how much hate liberals have for them, do you blame them?

I’d say at this point that the discussion is pointless.

A lot of people played the “everyone hates” card in Germany and we lost 7 million people because of it. When discussions of religious bigotry become pointless, you can bet that somewhere, someone is planning or already building the next Auchwitz.

Everyone points fingers at the group on the other side of an issue.

So what group of people do you see Conservatives as hating? Please name the group and the reasons for thinking that Conservatives hate that group of people. I have given this option to several on here and the last one pointed out that George Wallace was a Republican. I hope you are better educated than that.

In my mind, that’s what makes the system in this country ultimately work by keeping the balance as two sides pull against each other.

The system stopped working several years ago. Our government can get nothing done. We can accomplish nothing because of the incompetence and back stabbing in Washington and the control of BOTH parties by oil and insurance companies.

The liberals are no more right or wrong than the conservatives in my mind. As a moderate, I often see equally valid points on both sides with the balance tipping slightly depending on the issue. I have just grown very tired of the way fear is used to motivate people to join one side or the other.

And I have grown tired of the hate that is being used at every turn and joked about on the national media. A survey said that most 30-somethings now get their news from Comedy Central. Jon Scott is the worst at sarcastic hate mongering and liberals love him for it. Hate is a hard thing to justify, but when a really cool guy on TV says it’s OK, it must be OK.

I see both parties as politicians, the lowest form of human life. But the difference is the fact that Democrats, much like Fundie Christians, like to preach. Two groups of people cover their cars with bumper stickers: Fundies and liberals.

Liberal leaders are also the very best politicians. (Sort of like the best serial killers) Most are life long politicians but most Republicans are businessmen, usually horrible politicians.

Democrats need hate. I guess you might say that Republicans need fear. No, not a good position for either team, but bigotry is at least as dangerous as fear, especially when you have most of the followers of an entire party that doesn’t realize that just a bit of harmless hate mongering against a religious group is indeed bigotry.

I honestly think that you don’t see that hating Christians, as a group is wrong. But at the same time, you would condemn anyone who claimed to hate Jews or Blacks.

The media has been controlled by the “Hate Christians” group for 40 years. It is amazing what daily, overt propaganda can do to convince smart, educated people that hate is OK and as long as a person hates a group that has been designated as being evil by the propagandists.

Think this is all BS?

In 1930, Germany was the most educated and cultured country in the world. After five years of people saying that discussions about bigotry were pointless, they had become NAZIs and were ready to invade Poland.

By TheWholeBlog

November 23, 2007 3:38 PM | Link to this

Think this is all BS?

Mostly. We do think, however, that you are total bs.

By The Other Jack

November 23, 2007 4:34 PM | Link to this

Well whole blog. (not having the courage to post your own nik says volumes) It is obvious that you do not have the intelligence or the self control to counter my points so I would expect such a whining, pathetic post.

Have a good weekend.

I’ll be here on Monday.

Maybe by then you will stop weeping and will muster the courage to actually stage a civil debate.