By Chilao

November 8, 2007 10:28 AM | Link to this

THREE major laughs in one topic.

For obvious security reasons, I did not comment earlier this week. LOL. But did forget to mention the B.C. basements.

By BBT

November 8, 2007 10:31 AM | Link to this

Why do people vote for Hillary Clinton? I don’t get it. People hate the war, but they’re going to vote for Hillary who will continue it. Americans don’t necessarily like illegals coming here and taking jobs and welfare away from Americans, but Hillary’s all for illegals taking advantage of free health services, even though she’s for mandating legal Americans paying for health insurance. People believe that government is incompetent (i.e., FEMA botched Katrina), but they want it to take over their health care so that we can wait in lines AND pay a lot. Are people’s brains being radiated or soaked in some sort of chemical concoction?

By No name please...

November 8, 2007 10:37 AM | Link to this

Once again, Andrea nails this one. Senator Clinton’s adversaries might step back into a more genteel stance while actually on the stage, but they have no problems with the off-stage hatchet jobs carried out by their people. Would Shaunti have us believe that the “conservative” men of this country will behave like gentlemen when this lady is speaking, so we can hear what she has to say? Ha!

In truth, there are still millions of Americans, men and women, who are so afraid of the v-word, (especially one that has the kahones to stand up for herself) that the very thought of having a v-word in charge sends them hyperventillating into their little brown lunch bags. Grow up already!

By The Other Jack

November 8, 2007 10:54 AM | Link to this

A great politician can get elected, no matter what. Hillary Clinton is one of the world’s premier politicians.

She is smart. She is ruthless. She is as connected as any one in Washington. In fact, she IS the Democratic Machine in Washington. There is no one that is more on the inside. She can appear on any mainstream media outlet and she understands the value of baking cookies and chatting with Katie Coric about the vast right wing conspiracy as opposed to standing her ground across the table from Bill O’Rielly or even Chris Wallace as many like Rosy O’Donald have done. She is very slick in public, but she carefully chooses her “situations”.

She is smarter than her husband and her strength of character is multiples of her husband.

Here are the problems:

Hillary is a pawn of the Insurance Companies. The Oil Companies probably don’t own her yet, but they will, depending on her success. Her health program will require that all Americans that can afford it, buy health insurance and the rest of the people will be covered by our government. Of course the 20,000 lbs elephant in the living room is Who gets to decide who can afford it? That’s another post, but the bottom line is that her program will require that every single American make use of the insurance industry’s product.

Make no mistake in thinking that she will not pander because she already has.

She is the most divisive candidate in America. While she and her teflon persona has rejected every attack, those attacks have only been rejected in the minds of her supporters and the mainstream media.

Most people will not forget that she was her husband’s attack machine. Anyone standing up to the Clintons often paid with their professional lives.

When she ran for the Senate, her original opponent was Rudy. It was no problem for her own attack machine to turn up an affair in which Rudy was involved. He dropped out of the race
and her new opponent had just over a month to run against the most heavily funded, ruthless politician in history. She won that one by playing the brilliant politician and played the oldest card in history: destroy your opponent’s character.

She is sleazy, she is slimy. She IS what corruption in Washington is all about.

As a Republican, I would never, ever cross over and vote for Hillary. The only Democrat I would support is OBama. He is smart and he seems more level headed than anyone on either side. But more than anything else, he seems to be focused on finding viable solutions to many of our problems.

Personally, I’m tired of the politics. As I said, Hillary is the worlds greatest politician.

Nuf said.

By Mara

November 8, 2007 11:10 AM | Link to this

hey, somebody do the math for me please…if almost 60% of Democrats are women, and 27% of those women say that Hillary’s gender will make her a better POTUS…how do those numbers compare to the 11% of the general populace that say they will never, EVER vote for a woman, any woman? Now add in the negatives of that woman being Hillary Clinton…do the numbers indicate that her gender is, overall, an advantage?

I don’t think so.

there are still millions of Americans, men and women, who are so afraid of the v-word

okay, call me “out of touch” but what ‘n da heck is “the v-word”?!

By Chilao

November 8, 2007 11:20 AM | Link to this

Mara - I am a guy, with a p-word.

Bet you don’t have one.

Get it? LMAO

By The Other Jack

November 8, 2007 11:24 AM | Link to this

No Name please

Would Shaunti have us believe that the “conservative” men of this country will behave like gentlemen when this lady is speaking, so we can hear what she has to say? Ha!

The conservative men of this country have been taught the difference between a female and a Lady. I have known many strong, dependent, women who understand the power of being a woman. I’m afraid that many American women have lost that awareness.

I have also known many strong, dependent women who insist on a genderless persona. I’m more than willing to respect their wishes. I think Hillary Clinton is one of those women. I don’t think of her as a woman, but as a ruthless, brilliant politician.

The fact that she is attempting to play the “woman card” is no more surprising than her use of any other of her vast supply of potent weapons. The woman tried to adapt an African American accent in Selma Alabama. She is the world’s greatest politician. Don’t be surprised at anything she would be willing to do.

By Lyrazel

November 8, 2007 11:27 AM | Link to this

Yes of course Clinton has advantages—As for her being a woman candidate I think its irrelevant. She is not the first to do so. In 1972 Shirley Chisholm ran for President and (depending on what party) women have been running since the 1880s but now given a voice on the podium. Her handicaps are the programs that were established in her husband’s terms that just are no longer working for voters as well his past behavior being a liability not an asset. NAFTA has become a fatal to American jobs and without a job how does one contribute to a Natl. Health Care system? How does one overlook the subprime mortgages now in default that were allowed/created during the Clinton administration? The world is not the same place—and many liberal or democrat voters are terribly reluctant to have the pair back.

By Mara

November 8, 2007 11:30 AM | Link to this

Thanks, Chilao! LOL! Don’t know why I didn’t think of that.

You’d think these euphamisms wouldn’t be needed for biological designations, eh? shaking head sadly I just don’t know what the world is coming to…

;^)

By John in Tampa, FLA

November 8, 2007 11:31 AM | Link to this

I don’t care if a candidate is male, female, black, white, straight, gay, religious, atheist, old, young, etc.

I want integrity, honesty and intelligence. i want somebody, anybody, who can get the job done and move us forward and not into another quagmire like we have now. I couldn’t care less how it is packaged.

By lozen

November 8, 2007 11:47 AM | Link to this

The conservative men of this country have been taught the difference between a female and a Lady. (Jeez, what the heck does that mean? The liberal men of this country have NOT of course been taught the difference?) I have known many strong, dependent, women who understand the power of being a woman. (As a strong, independent woman I’d like to know exactly what you think the power of being a woman is please. And how you learned that exactly.)

I’m afraid that many American women have lost that awareness. Please explain what this statement means. Thank you.

By Gandalf, the Grey

November 8, 2007 11:56 AM | Link to this

Andrea, WTF! you aren’t supposed to let the cat out of the bag on Rodham killing Vince Foster! What are you thinking! Everyone knows she is a lesbian, that’s old hat, but the Vince Foster thing had kinda blown over. Andrea, you again show that you are a complete idiot. Too bad that other girl died, she at least show some spark of intellect. You are an OXYGEN THIEF!

By Mara

November 8, 2007 12:03 PM | Link to this

lozen - don’t you know that the power of being a woman is being able and willing to use sex to manipulate men? They say that behind every successful man is a strong woman telling him what to do.

As TOJ said, many American women have lost this awareness…LOL!

joking

By Mara

November 8, 2007 12:30 PM | Link to this

okay…it’s just getting silly now.

http://rawstory.com/news/2007/FoxrepeatsclaimHillaryhadcat1107.html

Kathleen Willey (the woman who began the whole Whitewater/Bill’s-a-rapist/Clinton Drug Cartel foofaraw) has come out with a book in which she alleges the Clintons were involved in the murder of her husband and an attempt to steal an early manuscript of the book. Oh, and she alleges that Hillary contracted a private detective named Palladino to murder two of her housecats.

Just a little amuse-bouche to the feast of crap in store for us if Hillary does win the primaries.

By Anonymous

November 8, 2007 12:34 PM | Link to this

Wow, talk about zooming past the obvious.

Who CARES how the other candidates, or even the media, treat Hillary ‘because she’s a woman’? Her gender is already a big enough handicap with the voters themselves.

There are lots and lots of morons out there—male AND female—who will simply refuse to elect a woman to a position of high power and responsibility, “because she’s a woman.” Her gender is a handicap as much as Obama’s race is.

By Mara

November 8, 2007 12:35 PM | Link to this

oh, and I almost forgot.

Congratulations to all my gay blogbuddies out there. You can no longer be fired merely for being who you are. You now have the same job protections as I do. Yea!

By Anonymous

November 8, 2007 12:37 PM | Link to this

Gandalf: GREAT parody of the idiocy of a typical Faux News viewer and Rush Limbaugh listener. Very funny stuff.

You, uh, WERE kidding… right?

By The Other Jack

November 8, 2007 12:47 PM | Link to this

Iozen

LOL! Yea, I know. You can’t correct these things once they are posted and I saw that as soon as it posted. independent was the word. Thanks for being kind in pointing that out.

The liberal men of this country have NOT of course been taught the difference?

The original statement I was responding to was made about conservative men and I was addressing that comment.

As a strong, independent woman I’d like to know exactly what you think the power of being a woman is please. And how you learned that exactly.

Women have always been the strong people in my life. I know and understand what that power is, but I can’t explain it.

I’m afraid that many American women have lost that awareness. Please explain what this statement means. Thank you.

I’m sure I am going to make everyone mad here. I have been single for six years and have dated quite a bit. When I first started dating, I dated women people would fix me up with.

I would pick them up. They would usually be dressed slightly more masculine than me. Some of them were just flat out angry about whatever I said or did. I am a conservative so I always avoided talking politics, but everyone is an activist.

The dates were miserable affairs where I was constantly walking on eggs, not knowing whether to open a door for someone or pay for a meal. They weren’t dates, they were gender competitions and I was losing from the start.

Then I met a woman from Kiev. I met her through a professional situation where she was a very powerful and smart business woman. During work, she was as businesslike as anyone I have ever seen.

When I picked her up for our date, she was wearing a really nice, sexy dress, heels, opened the door smiling and I’m not sure either one of us stopped smiling all night.

I was able to be a gentleman. I never feared opening doors for her. She expected it and understood that it was a gesture of respect. We talked about music, art, travel, films. Her accent made me feel like James Bond and I WANTED to be James Bond for this woman. Everywhere we went, she became the center of attention, not because of the way she looked, but because of the way she carried herself. She made ME feel like a million bucks by just having the honor of being with her.

It was that European attitude that so many Americans hate, but when you know the kindness and intelligence behind that attitude, that attitude becomes strength.

She was only here for a short while and I REALLY hated to see her return to Europe.

I have since dated American women that were a lot like her, but they are rare. They are usually either pretty and dumb as a rock or attractive, but terrified that anyone would actually see a woman standing there in those khaki pants, loafers and a button-up dress shirt.

OK. The target is directly on my forehead. Let ‘er fly!!

By No name please...

November 8, 2007 12:51 PM | Link to this

The conservative men of this country have been taught the difference between a female and a Lady.

Are you telling us that your upbringing as a “conservative” qualifies you to arbitrarily decide which women are and certainly are NOT deserving of respect and civility? Interesting.

She was her husband’s attack machine. She is sleazy, she is slimy. She IS what corruption in Washington is all about.

Why, thank you so much for the enlightenment! But, these are your opinions, right? If you really want the good people of this blog to share your views about this um.. female-not-lady, why not bring some facts with verifiable sources instead of just the vitriol of your own feelings? You know, go beyond sound bites half the story type stuff and really bring on the facts. (For example, “she’s a socialist” doesn’t count unless you define the term and cite concrete examples supporting the conclusion.) If you actually have something, that is. Just a suggestion.

By The Other Jack

November 8, 2007 12:57 PM | Link to this

Mara

ozen - don’t you know that the power of being a woman is being able and willing to use sex to manipulate men?

Sadly enough, that is exactly what I would expect most American women to think I was talking about.

That isn’t in the same universe as what I was talking about. But I couldn’t have written a better statement about what I think is wrong with most American women.

By chuck

November 8, 2007 1:07 PM | Link to this

I posted this this morning before the change over to the new topic. I wanted to respond to something NetB said yesterday and it kind of goes better with this topic anyway so I’m reposting it. As for Hillary’s gender, I couldn’t care less. I wouldn’t vote for her because of her last name.

NetB

Personal, private, moral behavior WAS important due to the relevance of Bill Clinton’s pecadillos, but NOW they aren’t so important…besides with the exception of Mitt haven’t ALL the Republican candidates been married more than once? And Mitt doesn’t count because he’s a Mormon, not a Christian.

Actually, Mike Huckabee married his high school sweetheart and they have been married for about 30 years or so.

Yes, personal, private, MORAL behavior is still important to Republicans…at least the Social Conservatives in the party. It’s NEVER been important to the other side of the party. Personally, I don’t see how you can compare what Clinton did with what Giuliani did because they were 2 very different things. This week Kathleen Willey’s book came out. It is called “Target: Caught in the Crosshairs of Bill and Hillary Clinton.” She was a CLINTON SUPPORTER and claimed that not only did he rape her, but she believes He OR SHE, had her husband killed. I don’t know whether or not the second allegation is true, but I sure believe her on the first one. There is NO EXCUSE for what Clinton did with Lewinsky in the White House.

I think you should also look at the difference between Prominent Republicans and Democrats when they get caught with “their pants down”. Livingston and Newt resigned. Clinton CELEBRATED.

That said, I could not possibly vote for Giuliani FOR ANY REASON. If he can’t be trusted to keep sacred vows that he made to his own wife, how can we trust him to keep his vow to protect and defend the Constitution.

My first reaction to Mike Huckabee was, “I can’t vote for a governor from ARKANSAS. That’s just too surreal.” The more that I look at him though, the better I feel about supporting him. I think of all the Republican candidates, he has the cleanest record of conservatism…both fiscal and social. I think he would do a great job as president, though I think he may have to grow into the job a bit.

The only thing that I disagree with him about is his support of the “Fair Tax” plan being pushed by Neal Boortz. I can get over that though because I don’t think it ever has a prayer of becoming law. Personally I prefer a flat tax plan of some sort. The main thing to me however is not HOW we pay our taxes but rather HOW MUCH we pay in taxes.

By chuck

November 8, 2007 1:08 PM | Link to this

I posted this this morning before the change over to the new topic. I wanted to respond to something NetB said yesterday and it kind of goes better with this topic anyway so I’m reposting it. As for Hillary’s gender, I couldn’t care less. I wouldn’t vote for her because of her last name.

NetB

Personal, private, moral behavior WAS important due to the relevance of Bill Clinton’s pecadillos, but NOW they aren’t so important…besides with the exception of Mitt haven’t ALL the Republican candidates been married more than once? And Mitt doesn’t count because he’s a Mormon, not a Christian.

Actually, Mike Huckabee married his high school sweetheart and they have been married for about 30 years or so.

Yes, personal, private, MORAL behavior is still important to Republicans…at least the Social Conservatives in the party. It’s NEVER been important to the other side of the party. Personally, I don’t see how you can compare what Clinton did with what Giuliani did because they were 2 very different things. This week Kathleen Willey’s book came out. It is called “Target: Caught in the Crosshairs of Bill and Hillary Clinton.” She was a CLINTON SUPPORTER and claimed that not only did he rape her, but she believes He OR SHE, had her husband killed. I don’t know whether or not the second allegation is true, but I sure believe her on the first one. There is NO EXCUSE for what Clinton did with Lewinsky in the White House.

I think you should also look at the difference between Prominent Republicans and Democrats when they get caught with “their pants down”. Livingston and Newt resigned. Clinton CELEBRATED.

That said, I could not possibly vote for Giuliani FOR ANY REASON. If he can’t be trusted to keep sacred vows that he made to his own wife, how can we trust him to keep his vow to protect and defend the Constitution.

My first reaction to Mike Huckabee was, “I can’t vote for a governor from ARKANSAS. That’s just too surreal.” The more that I look at him though, the better I feel about supporting him. I think of all the Republican candidates, he has the cleanest record of conservatism…both fiscal and social. I think he would do a great job as president, though I think he may have to grow into the job a bit.

The only thing that I disagree with him about is his support of the “Fair Tax” plan being pushed by Neal Boortz. I can get over that though because I don’t think it ever has a prayer of becoming law. Personally I prefer a flat tax plan of some sort. The main thing to me however is not HOW we pay our taxes but rather HOW MUCH we pay in taxes.

By The Other Jack

November 8, 2007 1:13 PM | Link to this

No Name please

Are you telling us that your upbringing as a “conservative” qualifies you to arbitrarily decide which women are and certainly are NOT deserving of respect and civility? Interesting.

For progressives, I have never seen so many reading comprehension problems. It isn’t me that defines whether a woman is a Lady, it is her. It is always the woman who is more than ready to tell you exactly how she wants to be defined.

Politicians rarely deserve respect. Why do you think Hillary does?

why not bring some facts with verifiable sources instead of just the vitriol of your own feelings?

This is an opinion forum. It is in the opinion section of the AJC. Get it? If I were teaching a class, I would have such references.

Take a look up and down the postings, Einstein. How many references do you see and how many opinions do you see? Or are you just a fairly dim witted person who believes that only persons who don’t walk in goosestep with your own close-minded thinking should be held to a different standard.

By chuck

November 8, 2007 1:36 PM | Link to this

Ki…er, I mean NNP:

Are you telling us that your upbringing as a “conservative” qualifies you to arbitrarily decide which women are and certainly are NOT deserving of respect and civility? Interesting.

It is not about civility and respect. Most men who grew up in the 50’s and 60’s, especially in the South, were taught to be gentlemen. All of the television shows that we watched like Leave It To Beaver and Andy Griffith and most others took great pains and went to great lengths to model how men should treat Ladies. These show also showed us how LADIES were supposed to act.

Now if you look at women in the political realm, which ones act civilly towards others. It sure isn’t Hillary, or Nancy Pelosi, or Maxine Waters. They say the VILEST things about ANYBODY who isn’t in lock step with their own political ideology. Then you have people like Condi Rice, Kay Bailey Hutchison, Sandra Day O’Connor (the last 2 being people with whom I often disagree) who always take the high road. There is a difference in the way they are treated by their opponents BECAUSE it is the way they treat others…You know, that Golden Rule thing.

By Archie

November 8, 2007 1:42 PM | Link to this

To Shanti I say there is no advantage and Andrea points out why Hillary doesn’t have an advantage in the first three paragraphs of her rebuttal. I think in some ways she has a disadvantage being a woman because a lot of religions believe that a woman should never be in charge of a man and if elected president well Hillary would be in charge of a lot of men. I like what Andrea says about being fair but yes Hillary’s gender is a disadvantage in this race.

By Zack

November 8, 2007 1:44 PM | Link to this

Many people are going to vote for her simply because she’s a woman.

Period.

I’d hardly call that reality a disadvantage.

In fairness, many might opt not to vote for her for the same reason, but I think it’ll be more due to the fact that she has exposed herself over the years as having ideologies that don’t deserve votes.

Feminists can take offense all they want, but there are indeed separate gender roles. I’m not saying a woman couldn’t be a great advisor; a female leader, at best, is not your first option.

By No name please...

November 8, 2007 1:47 PM | Link to this

Ahh… insulting the intelligence those who dare to engage you in discussing your own words. How many tactics did you reject before deciding on that one? Einstein indeed.

Yaaaawwwwwwnnnn! Somebody wake me when the dude actually says something.

By HAHAHAHAHA!

November 8, 2007 1:52 PM | Link to this

“Leave It To Beaver and Andy Griffith …. showed us how LADIES were supposed to act.”

By NetBanker

November 8, 2007 1:56 PM | Link to this

don’t you know that the power of being a woman is being able and willing to use sex to manipulate men? NO! NO! NO! NO! NO!!! Mara, have you learned NOTHING in all of our blogging?!! The power of being a woman is supposed to be about being able and willing to WITHHOLD sex to manipulate men. You’re not supposed to enjoy it and NEVER have it outside of marriage. Sheesh…work with me here, would ya?

By Archie

November 8, 2007 2:00 PM | Link to this

Her gender is a handicap as much as Obama’s race is.

I agree with that statement Anonymous and someone will say it’s not true and they will turn around and bash Hillary using derogatory terms to describe her that are known to be derogatory towards women.

By John in Tampa, FLA

November 8, 2007 2:17 PM | Link to this

If Hillary would just b*** slap her opponents during one of her debates, she would get tons of votes.

Vote early, vote often.

By Monica Blewbillski

November 8, 2007 2:26 PM | Link to this

Well geez, the white guys haven’t done such a good job running the country recently.

How could a woman do any worse?

Will she get us into a war with no exit plan? Will the price of oil skyrocket under her administration? Will the deficit go thru the roof? Will terrorists strike on American soil? Will the housing/mortgage industry tank on her watch? Will health insurance suddenly become an issue under her admin?

Even if Hillary is elected and fails miserably, how would that make her any different than what we have had during our lifetimes?

By Lily Toad

November 8, 2007 2:37 PM | Link to this

Congratulations to all my gay blogbuddies out there. You can no longer be fired merely for being who you are. You now have the same job protections as I do. Yea! Mara, thanks for the congrats, but Bush is threatenting a veto!

On topic, as a life-long feminist, I’d love to see a woman president, but not Sen. Clinton, because I don’t think she’ll make the changes I’d like to see, such as, ending the war in Iraq and having a REAL Universal Health care system. Bill Clinton calling her opponents’ attacks “swiftboating” is a gross exaggeration (until they bring up the Vince Foster murder). But, women will identify with her being belittled because every woman has been belittled by men at some point in her life, and that identification will help her.

By lozen

November 8, 2007 2:42 PM | Link to this

Ideologies? That’s a mighty big word for our old Zack! The antiquated ideas match but ….???? “….there are indeed separate gender roles. I’m not saying a woman couldn’t be a great advisor; a female leader, at best, is not your first option.” That, ladies and gentlemen, is because men have always done such a great job as leaders! Just take a look at history and you will see the truth! I was in a group discussion last night and one of the women said, “If we’d spent all these billions on alternative energy instead of fighting a war over oil, we would have solved our energy problem!” I would vote for her! She could be my leader fer shur. How does Zack know women wouldn’t be great leaders, boys and girls? Because his preacher told him so. That’s how Zack knows everything. Zack/his preacher worship a book written thousands of years ago by men who didn’t want women getting any of what they saw as their power. Believe it or not, that book is very, very important even today to men who don’t want women getting any of what they see as their power! How wonderful it would be if all women wore dresses and heels and smiled all the time! And chuck… the good old days when women were girls and men were men! Ah, if only we could return to the days of father knows best! How happy he would be.

By Mara

November 8, 2007 2:43 PM | Link to this

Net - The power of being a woman is supposed to be about being able and willing to WITHHOLD sex to manipulate men

ROTFLMAO!!!! That’s what I meant to say…LOL!!

You’re not supposed to enjoy it and NEVER have it outside of marriage

according to that nutjob-without-a-spellcheck last week, all sex even IN marriage will kill or maim ya!

Save a life, just say NO!

By Chilao

November 8, 2007 2:58 PM | Link to this

The biggest drawback to me with Hillary Clinton as the Democratic nominee is electability.

Bill Richardson is the Playboy interview this month, and as much as I like him(qualifications), he reads like just another calculating politico. I am not yet done with the interview read.

Will she get us into a war with no exit plan? Will the price of oil skyrocket under her administration? Will the deficit go thru the roof? Will terrorists strike on American soil? Will the housing/mortgage industry tank on her watch? Will health insurance suddenly become an issue under her admin?

actually, if all of those items can be delayed just a few years, they WILL get blamed on her, if she wins.

By Archie

November 8, 2007 3:00 PM | Link to this

Lily, Hillary will end the war as soon as she can and she will get the universal healthcare she can get because you must remember a president doesn’t have all-power in his/her hands so they do what they when they can. Not one candidate will just outright end this war if elected and if you confront them with their words they will tell you that you misinterpreted what they said. Once Bush is out of office and the political timing is right this Iraq war will end.

As for the subprime mortgages being in default I don’t think you blame Clinton or Bush but people themselves buying a house they simply couldn’t afford. I read about people’s financial issues all the time in Black Enterprise and the Cnn website and basically, americans don’t manage their money very well. When I looked at the debt diet show on Oprah it was painfully obvious that it matters more to people how they are seen than how they manage their money. People have to be held responsible for their behavior be it the president or the general public.

By lozen

November 8, 2007 3:12 PM | Link to this

Netbanker,yeah! Yeah, that was about the only “power” most women had before the 60’s! You didn’t do “IT” if you wanted him to marry you! So a lot of women held on to that virginity because it was the only bargaining chip they had! Now let us not talk about all the things one could participate in without losing that commodity!

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By Mara

November 12, 2007 8:40 AM | Link to this

did anyone notice that all the posts from Friday have disappeared?!

what’s up with the W2W tech team?

By The Other Jack

November 12, 2007 8:52 AM | Link to this

No Name Please Ahh… insulting the intelligence those who dare to engage you in discussing your own words. How many tactics did you reject before deciding on that one? Einstein indeed.

Insult your intelligence? You are the one demanding references on an opinion forum. i.e. you would need to show some intelligence before I could insult your intelligence.

Sorry to hurt your widdle feelings. I would suggest you temper your own responses before you whine about others not tempering theirs.

By The Other Jack

November 12, 2007 8:54 AM | Link to this

Mara

What is all this advertising spamming? I’m not here that much. Is this a common thing?

By Chilao

November 12, 2007 9:16 AM | Link to this

Mara - I was impressed that my first post on this topic, done last Friday, stayed WITH the topic as I fully expected it to have disappeared, and historically it would have. And I actually heard that Chicago thing from someone who used to live there. LOL

Maybe they did drug-testing of the ITers, and kicked any who tested positive up into management. LMAO

TOJ - yeah, spam happens here(it is being done by an automated process, it inclined to happen anywhere on the web that allows open posting); they/ajc clean it up eventually.

By Mara

November 12, 2007 9:31 AM | Link to this

Chilao - LOL @ testing the IT folks!!

I was impressed that my first post on this topic, done last Friday, stayed WITH the topic as I fully expected it to have disappeared, and historically it would have.

I can only see posts from last Thursday, the 8th. And one from Billy on the 11th.

TOJ - yes, spam happens. Usually it’s just a sprinkling but sometimes it’ll overwhelm the blog until the IT dept, in their own time, choose to do something about it.

By Chilao

November 12, 2007 9:38 AM | Link to this

Now I was not implying if you smoke weed you would be unable to do accurate maintenance on a website. Why, one of the heaviest weed smokers I know does web maintenance for many small businesses and local community groups. Looks good, too.

He’s actually an evolved graphic artist. Actually he is a print-maker/artist but has to make a living you know.

By lovelyliz

November 12, 2007 9:52 AM | Link to this

Given the history in this country of electing white Anglo-Saxon, Prodestant Christian males, I would have to say that anything that makes a presidential candidate “different”, ie. being a woman, works against them.

By Chilao

November 12, 2007 9:55 AM | Link to this

Mara, yeah, my bad, they posted the new topic Thursday, not Friday. I got the dates confused.

By Mara

November 12, 2007 10:09 AM | Link to this

Chilao - fuggeddaboudit :^)

anybody see the article about that deputy director of intelligence insisting that American’s must get over their fetish with personal privacy/anonymity? Evidently the new definition of “privacy” is going to be “personal information hidden behind government or commercial firewalls”. It’s no longer “your” information, folks.

excerpt -

Privacy no longer can mean anonymity, says Donald Kerr, the principal deputy director of national intelligence.

Instead, it should mean that government and businesses properly safeguard people’s private communications and financial information.

Kerr said at an October intelligence conference in San Antonio that he finds concerns that the government may be listening in odd when people are “perfectly willing for a green-card holder at an (Internet service provider) who may or may have not have been an illegal entrant to the United States to handle their data.”

Millions of people in this country, particularly young people, already have surrendered anonymity to social networking sites such as MySpace and Facebook, and to Internet commerce. These sites reveal to the public, government and corporations what was once closely guarded information, like personal statistics and credit card numbers.

“Those two generations younger than we are have a very different idea of what is essential privacy, what they would wish to protect about their lives and affairs. And so, it’s not for us to inflict one size fits all,” said Kerr, 68. “Protecting anonymity isn’t a fight that can be won…”

“Our job now is to engage in a productive debate, which focuses on privacy as a component of appropriate levels of security and public safety,” Kerr said. “I think all of us have to really take stock of what we already are willing to give up, in terms of anonymity, but (also) what safeguards we want in place to be sure that giving that doesn’t empty our bank account or do something equally bad elsewhere.”

Kurt Opsahl, a senior staff lawyer with the Electronic Frontier Foundation, an advocacy group that defends online free speech, privacy and intellectual property rights, said Kerr’s argument ignores both privacy laws and American history.

“Anonymity has been important since the Federalist Papers were written under pseudonyms,” Opsahl said. “The government has tremendous power: the police power, the ability to arrest, to detain, to take away rights. Tying together that someone has spoken out on an issue with their identity is a far more dangerous thing if it is the government that is trying to tie it together.”

Opsahl also said Kerr ignores the distinction between sacrificing protection from an intrusive government and voluntarily disclosing information in exchange for a service.

“There is something fundamentally different from the government having information about you than private parties,” he said. “We shouldn’t have to give people the choice between taking advantage of modern communication tools and sacrificing their privacy.”

“It’s just another ‘trust us, we’re the government,’” he said.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/11/11/AR2007111100289.html

By Chilao

November 12, 2007 10:21 AM | Link to this

That reminds me of the IT guy on NPR recently; seems he used to work for an AT&T internet hub in the Bay Area, and there was a government secured room, and the big internet traffic data line had a splitter on it, one line went into the secured room.

And he actually documented it all REAL WELL before he left; otherwise I am sure we would be hearing “Yeah? What? Naw, we didn’t, can you prove that?”.

By Anonymity

November 12, 2007 10:54 AM | Link to this

Whenever possible, pay cash. The banks prefer you to swipe your little card for everything, even a tuna on rye. The records of your little swipey card are the first thing the government looks at when wondering if you’ve done something they don’t like. They document the most intimate details of your life: what you eat, what medicines you buy, where you drive, what you read, and what you buy your mother for Christmas. If you pay cash, there’s no record, and you know they don’t like that. Not only can they not track your every move for the government, but they can’t target you with direct marketing. Our privacy is gone, to be sure. But the more you pay in cash, the more of yourself you get to keep.

For now, anyway.

By Mara

November 12, 2007 11:01 AM | Link to this

Chilao - Mark Klein is the man to whom you’re referring. He worked at AT&T for 22 years. He’s in DC lobbying against lawsuit immunity for the telecoms who collaborated with the NSA to circumvent FISA requirements and illegally monitor vast amounts of citizen-to-citizen communication.

He has my thanks and admiration.

By Chilao

November 12, 2007 11:15 AM | Link to this

THE news, and shouldhavebeen ANY football.

Mara - I heard that the Democrats(late last week?) had made retro any protections for the telecoms for engaging in criminal activity. Gotta appear tough on terrorism, you know, an election is coming up.

By Mara

November 12, 2007 11:38 AM | Link to this

Chilao - they’d kinda have to make the protections retroactive as most of the 40+ lawsuits they’re being faced with all challenge past actions. I find the whole situation ludecrous. Why do they need “immunity” if they honestly believe that they did nothing wrong? If they’re confident that they followed all applicable laws (as surely their multi-million dollar legal department assured them they were…)they should be more intent on proving their innocence than in hiding behind their bought-and-paid-for government flunkies.

By lozen

November 12, 2007 11:39 AM | Link to this

Chuck’s comment about Father Knows Best, Andy Griffith, ladies and gentlemen reminded me of inadvertently being caught up in a confederate memorial day celebration one year. An older white haired woman was speaking about how wonderful the old south was when courtesy ruled and men were gentlemen and women were ladies. Standing in the crowd were a handful of black ppl, the horror of their lives in the old south being completely ignored of course. The 50’s/60’s were not that great for me and a lot of other women either. If I have to choose between having my own credit or waiting for a man to open a door for me, I’ll take my credit card thank you! I’ve never had any problem opening my own door. If I have to smile all the time, constantly shore up male egos and never have a sexual life (unless I’m married) to be called a lady, just call me a sl-t! It’s always seemed to me that ladies didn’t have any fun. It’s always seemed to me that if you poked a lady she would break into a million brittle pieces. It’s always seemed to me that ladies give up being human to be called ladies. And father does not always know best! It’s interesting how differently we view the past depending on who and what we are and how different our experiences were.

By Chilao

November 12, 2007 11:42 AM | Link to this

THE news, and shouldhavebeen ANY football

this was in reference to a Post for Jack about football, but it never showed up. Maybe the government is trying to decode it. LOL

By Chilao

November 12, 2007 11:45 AM | Link to this

Mara - your fuggeddaboudit made me think of that Hugh Grant movie, Mickey Blue Eyes, He a Brit in NYC, gets engaged to a mobster’s daughter, and has to learn the business ropes, if only to pass as a mobster for some higher-level mobsters.

and has to learn how to CORRECTLY say fuggeddaboudit. Forgettable movie but hilarious scene.

By Anonymous

November 12, 2007 12:45 PM | Link to this

The “good old days” were only good for the upper- to upper-middle class white guys, and those who enjoyed serving them.

If that’s the price of living in an era of Civility and Respect (i.e., deference to those white guys)—we’re better off without it.

By Jack

November 12, 2007 1:04 PM | Link to this

Anonymous. Very good. Bring race into the blog. That ups your credibility a whole bunch.

By lozen

November 12, 2007 1:14 PM | Link to this

Hey Jack. I’m the one that brought race into the blog darlin’. What’s up with you and your anger whenever the fact comes up that there’s more than one race and we’ve had different experiences due to that?

By Chilao

November 12, 2007 1:28 PM | Link to this

Jack - that missing post to you had to do with some TV news item about a Auburn 50-0 you posted last week. I thought of you when the TV news played. LOL

I don’t really follow any football, but I don’t think it happened.

By Jack

November 12, 2007 1:39 PM | Link to this

No it didn’t Chilao, the crow doesn’t taste too good today. Sick of race always being brought up. Give it a break. Oh I forgot, this is Atlanta, Chocolate City of the South. We must remember to introduce race in any forum. makes the black man feel better.

By AGFNPR

November 12, 2007 2:06 PM | Link to this

Lozen,

I agree with most of what you said in your 11:39 post. The good old days weren’t good for everybody. I do understand how your experiences have shaped your viewpoints.

But please understand that many of us have had different experiences that have shaped our views. My grandmother and grandfather got married during the depression and immediately started a family. Times were hard and money was scarce. But the hard times coupled with life in a traditional “father knows best” type of environment did not negatively affect her. She loved and respected my grandfather until the day he died. She was a sweet and wonderful woman - a lady in every sense of the word. Some of my fondest memories from my childhood are the family trips we took to visit my grandparents. Despite her sweet exterior, she was also tough as nails on the inside. Anyone attempting to poke her would have found their finger broken into a million pieces!

And no, their home was not perfect like Ozzie and Harriet. The family had its share of sibling rivalries and other problems. But ultimately, they had the kind of life that I want for me and my family.

And before you say it, my grandmother never complained that she was tied down, or treated like a second class citizen, or that she didn’t enjoy life. As a matter of fact not too many years ago we were at her house watching TV (shortly after the death of my grandfather) and a commercial for Viagra came on. Out of the blue my grandmother stated “let me tell you, my husband never needed anything like that”. We almost died laughing, as this type of statement was completely out of character for her. But the comment was not made in a raunchy manner, she was simply paying respect to the man she had loved for a lifetime.

By Anonymous

November 12, 2007 4:00 PM | Link to this

Jack: Any time some fool starts pining for the “good old days” of Mayberry and ladylike behavior (and Jim Crow, and segregation), the reminder needs to be made: The Good Old Days were only good for SOME, not all.

By Peeved

November 13, 2007 8:37 AM | Link to this

Bush - Clinton - Bush - Clinton !!! Stop the madness, this ain’t no video game.

By Mara

November 13, 2007 10:27 AM | Link to this

tough time posting yesterday. spent a good ten minutes writing, editing, and re-writing a post regarding AGFNPR’s granny and whether such a tough old bird would have complained about how life turned out. Had to wonder if anyone ever asked her, hypothetically, if she’d have had the opportunities then that we have today, might she have made different decisions. (sigh) It was a great post and a nicely balanced paragraph. All in all, a satisfactory bit of writing. Unfortunately, after I hit “post”…poof…and it was gone.

at least the spam’s gone…

By Chilao

November 13, 2007 10:36 AM | Link to this

Two of my posts late in the day disappeared as well, trivia related to seeing Jack Nicholson a few nights ago on the Andy Griffith show in court being tried for a burglary, a very young Jack Nicholson. The Juror was the episode name and he was 30, but looked 20.

Also commented on the concept of The Good Ole Days (everybody back then was whining complaining about the current state of affairs, making some reference to even some earlier time ‘good ole days’ so they must not have been that good even then..>LOL)

but I gave up on losts posts. Maybe mgmt did not like the promotion of the IT druggies…I thought later it might also imply I never could figure out which management was on or not on drugs, based on some of their decisions. LMAO

By chuck

November 13, 2007 10:45 AM | Link to this

Peeved, you are exactly right. Let’s not go back to that madness ever again. Things haven’t been right since Reagan left office.

Billy, as usual, you are an idiot. If ANYBODY is treating Hillary poorly, it’s her own party. BUT…Any woman who gets into the political fray is going to be subject to criticism FOR THEIR OWN RECORD just like any MAN would be. It’s called EQUALITY.

By Archie

November 13, 2007 10:46 AM | Link to this

Any time some fool starts pining for the “good old days” of Mayberry and ladylike behavior (and Jim Crow, and segregation), the reminder needs to be made: The Good Old Days were only good for SOME, not all.

I used to make the statements above all the time, Anonymous.

Standing in the crowd were a handful of black ppl, the horror of their lives in the old south being completely ignored of course. Yes,Lozen that happens often but you’re a good lady to notice that.

By Chilao

November 13, 2007 10:55 AM | Link to this

Jack Nicholson’s character was not the burglar, Aunt Bee hung out for a hung-jury to not convict him and coming to find out, the burglar was another guy hanging around the court, always asking if the jury was still out, seems he knew way too much about the case, stuff that was not in court testimony.

but the point was just because 11 want to convict, does not make you guilty. Aunt Bee questioned it and coming to find out, she was right. Kind of a variation on mob-appeal or just because a high percentage of the population think something is right, does not make it so.

This is a show(Andy Griffith Show) I only see now as reruns, never saw when it was on TV originally. Parents never had a TV until us kids were all grown up. Acting being outright lying and all that..LOL. Plus those actors/actresses are of such low-moral fiber. (parroting my mom). Of course I instantly found Marilyn Monroe immediately attractive, when I heard that.

By Peeved

November 13, 2007 10:57 AM | Link to this

If we ignore Hillary, will she go away?

By Mara

November 13, 2007 11:07 AM | Link to this

LOL!! Friday was the day we discussed drugs, growing drugs, drug sentencing, and the War on Drugs, wasn’t it?! HA! No wonder the posts went missing…guilty consciences :^)

By Miffed

November 13, 2007 11:12 AM | Link to this

If we ignore Hillary, will she go away?

Did that work on your wife?

By Chilao

November 13, 2007 11:19 AM | Link to this

Since I have never worked at the ajc, OBVIOUSLY I was not talking about ajc management; just a 30,000 feet conceptual thing overall, based on work experience. LOL

of course, if the shoe fits..

Yes, Friday, WAS a good day to have database corruption issues. we thank you, ajc ITer.

By lozen

November 13, 2007 11:20 AM | Link to this

Yes, things were so good when we had that actor as prez! It was the beginning of the total selfishness in this country that reigns today. It was the glorious time of cutting funds that helped people in this country. It was the end of mental institutions for the poor. It was the beginning of justifying cutting off aid for poor people and calling single mothers “welfare queens”. Every time I see some poor homeless person walking down the street mumbling to her/him self I thank goodness for Ronnie as prez.

By lozen

November 13, 2007 11:34 AM | Link to this

Hey Mara, I had some of the same thoughts but just didn’t have the energy to respond. My poor mother-in-law never complained either. She didn’t know things could be different. She was a very sweet, kind, christian woman. She cleaned and ironed and cooked and washed from sunup to sundown. Her thanks for that was to be her husband’s whipping post whenever things weren’t to his liking. If she wanted to discuss something he didn’t want to hear, he just told her to shut up and she tucked her tail between her legs and slunk away… smiling! Believe it or not, she was my heroine in the first years of my marriage until I saw what her kindness,lady-like actions and hard work got her. She was treated like a dog and didn’t know it could be different. I used to wish she would bi-ch slap that old man for sure. She probably had more to do with me becoming a feminist than anybody. It’s rather amazing too that my mother made the same comment about my father never needing any Viagra a short while after his death. All it took for my father to become the perfect man/husband all of a sudden was for him to die!

By Archie

November 13, 2007 12:04 PM | Link to this

Lozen,Hello, I cannot tell you what to think of your parents so please know I am not doing that with the following commentary. Your parents were taught the man’s is the head and lord of his household and he could do what he wanted so your dad did what he thought a man was supposed to do. If your dad had been taught differently he may not have done things the way he did. I personally think some of today’s women could be more ladylike and less selfish but I like independent women and I don’t tell anyone in my house to shut up but I expect that same kind of respect. Many of today’s women think it’s feminist to tell a man to “shut up”, but I think it’s just rude and selfish and if that kind of talk is used with me I will respond in an unkind manner.

Also Lozen, I enjoyed your 11:20 am post.

By lozen

November 13, 2007 12:53 PM | Link to this

Oh Archie! There is nothing “feminist” about telling anyone to shut up. I don’t know and have never known a woman who thinks it’s feminist to tell a man (or anyone) to shut up! You must know some weird people. Thanks for your support on Reagan. Of course there was an element of the good old days “the way it’s supposed to be” brainwashing in what my father-in-law did. And she was brainwashed to accept it. She got married when she was 13 to a man who took the little money they had and bought new tires for the car leaving her with no money to feed the 8 kids. And nobody questioned that because he was the head and lord of his household and that’s what’s wrong with that whole da-mn concept! Back in those days the sorriest, meanest man in the world still had complete control of his wife and kids. (And I’m sure that hasn’t ended!) He might not feed them, or house them well but he was still king of the world and could lord it over them when he got home. She had no education and couldn’t work or leave or do anything to make things better, not to mention the social stigma of divorce back then. And they raised several boys who, although they hated what they saw happening to their mother, grew up to treat their wives the same way in many ways without even being aware of what they were doing. They were brainwashed too. All but one of them has been divorced.

By ga_tech_92

November 13, 2007 1:30 PM | Link to this

To All The Kids Who Survived The 1930’s 40’s, 50’s, 60’s and 70’s !! First, we survived being born to mothers who smoked and/or drank while they carried us.

They took aspirin, ate blue cheese dressing and didn’t get tested for diabetes.

Then after that trauma, our baby cribs were covered with bright colored lead-based paints.

We had no childproof lids on medicine bottles, doors or cabinets and when we rode our bikes, we had no helmets, not to mention, the risks we took hitchhiking.

As children, we would ride in cars with no seat belts or air bags.

Riding in the back of a pick up on a warm day was always a special treat.

We drank water from the garden hose and not from a bottle.

We shared one soft drink with four friends, from one bottle and NO ONE actually died from this.

We ate cupcakes, bread and butter and drank soda pop with sugar in it, but we weren’t overweight because we were always outside playing.

We would leave home in the morning and play all day, as long as we were back when the streetlights came on.

No one was able to reach us all day. And we were O.K.

We would spend hours building our go-carts out of scraps and then ride down the hill, only to find out we forgot the brakes. After running into the bushes a few times, we learned to solve the problem.

We did not have Playstations, Nintendo’s, X-boxes, no video games at all, no 99 channels on cable, no video tape movies, no surround sound, no cell phones, no personal computers, no Internet or Internet chat rooms…we had friends and we went outside and found them!

We fell out of trees, got cut, broke bones and teeth and there were no lawsuits from these accidents.

We made up games with sticks and tennis balls and ate worms and although we were told it would happen, we did not put out very many eyes, nor did the worms live in us forever.

We rode bikes or walked to a friend’s house and knocked on the door or rang the bell, or just walked in and talked to them!

Little League had tryouts and not everyone made the team. Those who didn’t had to learn to deal with disappointment. Imagine that!!

The idea of a parent bailing us out if we broke the law was unheard of. They actually sided with the law!

This generation has produced some of the best risk-takers, problem solvers and inventors ever!

The past 50 years have been an explosion of innovation and new ideas.

We had freedom, failure, success and responsibility, and we learned how to deal with it all!

And you are one of them! Congratulations!

By AGFNPR

November 13, 2007 1:33 PM | Link to this

Mara and Lozen -

Please don’t think that I am looking through rose colored glasses on my grandparent’s relationship or that I have glossed over the fact that my grandmother didn’t have the opportunities of today’s women. I really believe my grandmother was content because my grandfather treated her with respect. And my grandmother is still alive and kicking (she is in her 90’s) so I have had many opportunities to talk to her about the past. I have known her all of my life. She didn’t complain about her husband before she died, and she hasn’t done it in the last four years since he died. She is a strong, intelligent woman who was never afraid to speak her mind, especially when she chastises me for not treating my wife correctly!

That reminds me of another story - I was with my grandmother one day at a store (I was a teenager at the time). A friend of my grandmother’s came up to us and introduced herself to me. I extended my hand to shake hers. My grandmother immediately said “never extend your hand to a lady unless she offers hers first”. Even today I wait to see if a woman will reach to shake my hand before I offer mine. LOL!

In terms of her having limited choices, that may be true. But as soon as her children left the house, she bought a small grocery store and ran the business (my grandfather was the stock boy!) for several years until she retired.

By Mara

November 13, 2007 2:01 PM | Link to this

lozen - There is nothing “feminist” about telling anyone to shut up

you said it, sister!

on the other side of the coin, though, are men like my father and my own husband. Men for whom “womens” rights don’t exist, merely human rights. Men who’d sooner slap themselves than their wives. Who’d bristle at the idea that these ladies were in any way an inferior person merely because of gender. (actually both of ‘em would probably laugh themselves silly at the idea)

but my point is…not all men, not even most men, are abusive to women.

By Mara

November 13, 2007 2:13 PM | Link to this

AGFNPR - you make me feel deprived! :-(

I never had the opportunity to know my grandparents the way you know yours. Of course we had the stories, the family legends, and the verified history but it has always felt like I missed out on something, despite my horde of siblings and their offspring.

By ga_tech_92

November 13, 2007 2:40 PM | Link to this

*google it if you want more information…I didn’t make it up… This doesn’t mean men are better than women. It does mean also that things aren’t always what you think. Don’t assume things are better ‘different’…nor the opposite…base your choices off what an individual’s actions have shown their character to be…which doesn’t speak well for most politicians…

I always say, “The problem with politicians is they are in business to get elected. They are not in business to do what’s best for the country, because what is best for a people is not always what they THINK they want.”

Let’s all keep thinking for ourselves and minimize the Government…the bigger it gets…the smaller we get…it’s a monster rolling out of control…down with Socialists…

By Archie

November 13, 2007 2:40 PM | Link to this

but my point is…not all men, not even most men, are abusive to women. Thank you, thank you and thank you, again!!!

Lozen I should not have used the word feminist the way I did but I have run into some women that will tell a man to “shut up” without giving it a second thought. I don’t know where that attitude came from, I just think that’s why some women do that but maybe not. Maybe it’s just rude behavior and it’s allowed because of the newfound freedom’s of women. SusieHomemaker probably understands better the things I am describing. There are people reading this blog that may not post but they also know exactly what I am talking about and could give you names. I do know some weird,rude,educated women but then I know some generous,courteous,independent,educated women such as the lady that sits in front of me at work. This lady has never said anything rude to me just because I am a man. Anyway don’t be too hard on men or women over 55 because they were taught what they were taught and like you(lozen) said some folk were happy with that behavior. I will post a story later…

By ga_tech_92

November 13, 2007 2:58 PM | Link to this

OK, wrong pasted text in with the political stuff…pretend your in the twilight zone…WE ARE muhuhaha

By Lily Toad

November 13, 2007 3:34 PM | Link to this

Archie, I’m fast approaching 55 and don’t have “those attitudes.” Some young people have the idea that the man should be head of the household, too, so let’s keep this age-neutral, okay?

By Lyrazel

November 13, 2007 3:34 PM | Link to this

Why are women against women assault crimes increasing?

Have ya’all prayed for rain yet? If no rain comes are ya’all gonna sacrifice Sonny? Its on my do list!

By Lily Toad

November 13, 2007 3:48 PM | Link to this

Lyra, hilarious! Who sacrificed himself for rain? Sonny did! I wish some of the people praying for rain would explain why a god would withhold rain until enough people beg for it.

By Chilao

November 13, 2007 3:58 PM | Link to this

Lyrazel - I stayed away from that one(Perdue), I really did. and I ALMOST posted a link(with my commentary) to the story earlier, it was from cnn even. even had it posted in this box but decided not to post it.

I stayed away, I really did. LOL (Maybe a live human sacrifice would be better).

Personally I think God is punishing all the FalseWorshippers who worship on Sunday, disobeying the Fourth Commandment, but what do I know?

By Observing the Comedy

November 13, 2007 4:18 PM | Link to this

So, in retrospect, and using Gov. Sonny’s wisdom, if the people of the United States had simply prayed for rain back in the 30’s, that whole “dust bowl” thing, and the widespread devastation could have been avoided, and America would have pulled out of the depression much sooner! Why didn’t they think of that?

By Lily Toad

November 13, 2007 4:24 PM | Link to this

John Steinbeck personally prayed for NO rain so he could write “The Grapes of Wrath.” No dustbowl — no novel.

By Archie

November 13, 2007 4:31 PM | Link to this

Lily, I did say over 55.Anyway don’t be too hard on men or women over 55

Some young people have the idea that the man should be head of the household, too, so let’s keep this age-neutral, okay? Yes they do Lily and some are happy with that but remember I was responding to Lozen who was talking about her parents and the not-so good old days. Let’s not beat around the bush that head-of-household thing has a lot to do with religion and some folk are happy doing things that way in their marriage. It’s fine with me because it’s their marriage.

Lyrazel,I have no idea why women on women assault crimes are increasing so please post some numbers. Obviously women engaging in that behavior have some issues.

I will ask Lozen or any of the ladies judge this story. I was in a bar and the lady charged $49 worth of liquor and after a little small talk with me the lady asks me for ten bucks so she can go party somewhere else. Keep in mind I knew nothing except the lady’s first name. She made light insults when I told her no, that I wasn’t going to give her any money. What do the ladies think since Lozen has said that I meet weird people??

By Lily Toad

November 13, 2007 4:56 PM | Link to this

Archie, I’d have to agree that you do meet some weird women. When I dated men, I didn’t believe in taking money from men, letting them buy me drinks, or paying for my dinner, movie, etc. Many women do feel entitled to free loading off of men, and this woman who was slightly insulting to you needs to get a reality check. Why would she expect a perfect stranger to hand her $10?

As for the over 55 deal, don’t forget lots of baby boomers are over 55 and I’m sure Lozen’s parents are WAY over 55. The examples people are giving about their grandparents and elderly parents show attitudes that are from before the second wave of feminism. The young people I was referring to that buy into that man as head of household stuff ARE basing it on religion, because they explained the religious rationale to me. I’m just saying … let’s not assume things based on people’s ages.

By Lily Toad

November 13, 2007 4:56 PM | Link to this

Archie, I’d have to agree that you do meet some weird women. When I dated men, I didn’t believe in taking money from men, letting them buy me drinks, or paying for my dinner, movie, etc. Many women do feel entitled to free loading off of men, and this woman who was slightly insulting to you needs to get a reality check. Why would she expect a perfect stranger to hand her $10?

As for the over 55 deal, don’t forget lots of baby boomers are over 55 and I’m sure Lozen’s in-laws are WAY over 55. The examples people are giving about their grandparents and elderly parents show attitudes that are from before the second wave of feminism. The young people I was referring to that buy into that man as head of household stuff ARE basing it on religion, because they explained the religious rationale to me. I’m just saying … let’s not assume things based on people’s ages.

By Lyrazel

November 14, 2007 10:20 AM | Link to this

Archie weird is only the way we perceive people who do not fit our preconceived notions of normal. Question: who is the most normal woman you know? Ok, in comparison to her the lady at the bar was not behaving, right? Since you knew what Salome’s’ bar tab was its obvious you were chatting as those libations errantly maxed out her Visa! Such a quandary! Maybe she did not want to visit an ATM so late at night so why not hit her up new-found friend—and continue the party with him at some despicable joint. Me, I think you were just being picked up and is that truly weird given the place you were in?

I know there are women who feel entitled for men to pay for a good time but there is also a culture behind it that says any deviation from such behavior is despicable and unwholesome. Women buying men drinks and hitting men up is naughty—and well—ya never bring them naughty women home to mama… so in a way our culture still says that women must be played not players.

Chilao, does drizzle count?

By Chilao

November 14, 2007 10:39 AM | Link to this

Lyrazel - well, it depends on how they prayed. If they prayed for rain, well, 0.15 inches qualifies. However, if they prayed for the drought to end, like I said, perhaps they are the wrong religion. LOL

The SundayWorshippin’ thing was humour, btw. SUPPOSED to be, anyway.

You know, it’s always dem-der-udder-folk that are misguided in their religious quests.

By NetBanker

November 14, 2007 10:55 AM | Link to this

Hey kids! It’s been a week already and what’s up with the changing, then non-changing topic? Anywho thought I’d poke the Republicans on the board about fiscal conservatism based on the link below to an editorial about it. This is one of the reasons that I left the Republican party.

Is the GOP fiscally conservative? A close look at the deficit as a percentage of GDP tells the tale: http://www.ajc.com/opinion/content/opinion/stories/2007/11/13/charted_1114.html

By lozen

November 14, 2007 11:02 AM | Link to this

Good points Lyrazel. Bars aren’t good places to meet ppl. Did any of you see the PBS show about the fight to get “intelligent design” into the schools in Dover? The ensuing trial showing that ID is NOT science was fascinating. Of course the fundys were surprised that a judge appt’d by Bush would rule against ID in the schools and now call him an “activist judge”. ;-)

By Lily Toad

November 14, 2007 11:14 AM | Link to this

Bars CAN be good places to meet people. I met my partner of 12 years at a Lesbian bar. (Not my current partner, I met her through common interests, which is the best way to meet people.)

By Mara

November 14, 2007 11:34 AM | Link to this

Net - the GOP hasn’t been fiscally conservative since before Reagan.

“Trickle-down economics” looks good on paper but doesn’t translate well to the real world. From “Deficits don’t matter” and the repeal of Pay-go rules to “faith based” welfare, “no bid” contracts, and the explosion of graft in the government…

no…I can’t say that the GOP has any right to still represent themselves as anything close to fiscal conservatives.

By Archie

November 14, 2007 11:36 AM | Link to this

Bars CAN be good places to meet people. I met my partner of 12 years at a Lesbian bar. I agree because I met my wife at a club 22 years ago. Good job Lily Toad and please note I do not call the people I meet weird, I just mention them and anyone can comment on them as they see fit. Most of the women I meet at clubs/bars are younger so they do things different. I would like to hear from someone 35 and under just to get another different viewpoint.

By Archie

November 14, 2007 11:39 AM | Link to this

Thanks Lyrazel and Lily for your opinions. Lyrazel, I did not think the lady I met was weird and I don’t really think the women I meet are weird it was a term used by Lozen. Maybe she did not want to visit an ATM so late at night so why not hit her up new-found friend—and continue the party with him at some despicable joint. That makes sense Lyrazel. The lady in my opinion was an educated,bourgeois type of person and it was a nice place where we were but I think she was planning to use her Visa at her next stop but she needed cash to get into the place. I know there are women who feel entitled for men to pay for a good time There are a good many women like that but I do realize there is a culture behind it and let me say this right now I am not looking for another woman, I just wanted to know what the ladies on this blog thought. Also keep in mind that I am younger than Lily,Lozen, and yourself Lyrazel and some of the women I meet are younger than me and they grew up with a different value system.

By Chilao

November 14, 2007 12:21 PM | Link to this

Lozen -

I saw mildly some of the PBS/Dover/ID thing last night later on(I watch BONES and have read all of Kathy Reichs’ books, she the show creator, except the latest book, too many LibraryHolds). Caught them showing some religious video to a judge.

I will say that the Temperance Brennan on the show BONES is much more (clearing throat) retentive than the same character in Reichs’ books EVER could have been. Kathy Reichs a real-life forensic anthropologist. Books based loosely on her actual work.

By Bluegrass Blogger

November 14, 2007 12:28 PM | Link to this

You know, there is one thing that always gets left out, especially when referencing the Bible, regarding the whole “submit to your husbands” passage. It continues with (paraphrasing, not sure that I can quote the exact verse) “Husbands, love your wives, as Christ loved the Church”. While the submit portion has drawn such negative connotations, the whole point is moot when you add that portion to it. A husband who loves his wife as Christ loved the Church is never going to lord anything over her, but constantly make her a part of everything, and will put her welfare above his own, to the point of death. Its something that we have forgotten in this country, a concept called servent leadership. Without both sides of it, it doesn’t work. I also think that today’s society has completely marginalized SAHMs. Just because a woman chooses (and I stress chooses) to stay at home and raise a family doesn’t mean she has any less drive, desire, ambition, or skill than anyone in the workplace. In fact, I readily admit that my wife works twice as hard as me. When my wife goes out of town for girls nights out, I am frazeled by the time she gets home. I can’t raise the kids and manage a household with anywhere near the skill that she does. And she feels more fullfilled by this than by “success” on a job (I guess it also is affected by how you define success). However, I am thankful that my wife and daughter do have the choices available to them, to achieve their dreams and ambitions. I know that I could not do what my wife does on a daily basis, and I have more respect for her than any Fortune 500 CEO. If a wife ever feels like a second class citizen, then the husband has failed. I believe the Southern Baptist Website has a good writing on the subject. Anyway, I do want to say that, while i don’t have the time to blog often, I enjoy all of your comment and dialogue.

By chuck

November 14, 2007 1:04 PM | Link to this

C’mon NetB.

Is the GOP fiscally conservative? A close look at the deficit as a percentage of GDP tells the tale:

Taking a look at the article, I figured out pretty quickly that the author was a dufus. He made the statement that “under every democrat president since Jimmy Carter”…think about where I’m going with this now…THERE’S ONLY BEEN ONE DEMOCRAT PRESIDENT SINCE CARTER!!!!! Yes the country was more fiscally responsible when Newt Gingrich was running the show in Washington.

Now let’s take a critical look at those years:

First, Reagan had to rebuild the military and win the cold war after Carter almost gave America to the commies.

Bush 1 had to fight a war.

Bush 2 had to fight a war.

You should be able to read through the bull in an article like that NetB. I’m disappointed in you.

By lozen

November 14, 2007 1:07 PM | Link to this

BluegrassBlogger, thank you for pointing out that part about husbands loving their wives. That does get ignored most of the time, doesn’t it? However, just out of curiosity, what church do you think this passage is referring to that Jesus loved? Of course Jesus didn’t belong to a church; he was a jew - perhaps a renegade jewish rabbi of some sect outside the mainstream jewish faith. Do you mean to say he loved the synagogue? If you did mean the catholic church (which was the only christian church until Martin Luther established protestantism in the 14/1500’s) does that mean you’re quoting from the catholic bible? If you’re not catholic, does that mean you think Jesus loved the Lutheran church or the Baptist church or the Church of England? Jesus really didn’t seem to go to the synogogue very often. He was a religious rebel who blasted the orthodox jewish leaders and got himself killed for it. He was always criticizing the jewish faith while, at the same time, saying he was fulfilling the rules. He was considered an outlaw by jewish religious leaders and he never mentioned a church. He didn’t establish a church; it was Paul and the disciples who established the beginnings of what would become the christian church. So it’s always confused me exactly what church Jesus could have loved. What do you think?

By lozen

November 14, 2007 1:13 PM | Link to this

Carter almost gave America to the commies. Jeez, we all can read thru the bull in a statement like that. I’m not disappointed though; it’s typical.

By Mara

November 14, 2007 1:15 PM | Link to this

Chilao - I love Kathy Reichs too! Just finished “Bones to Ashes” a couple weeks ago and seldom miss “Bones”. (now that Gilmore Girls has finished, anyway - R.I.P)

Have you read any Jeffery Deaver? One of his protagonists, Amelia Sachs, always had the same feel to me as Tempe Brennan.

By chuck

November 14, 2007 1:16 PM | Link to this

BTW, an interesting report just came out that totally debunks what you all claim has happened under Republican Presidents. You all keep saying the rich get richer Blahblahblah. It just isn’t true. Since the Bush tax cuts…you know the ones I’m talking about…those tax cuts for the rich? Well I hate to disappoint you kids, but the study shows that:

The oft-heard dictum that the rich get richer and the poor get poorer — doesn’t hold up in the harsh light of U.S. government statistics. The Treasury Department’s new study on income mobility from 1996 to 2005 reveals that the median incomes of taxpayers who started out in the bottom 20 percent increased more than the incomes of those initially in higher groups.

In fact — the median incomes of all taxpayers increased by 24 percent. But the incomes of those in the top one-100th of one percent declined over the 10 year period.

And only 25 percent of the people who were in that elite group in 1996 — were still there in 2005. Meanwhile, roughly half of taxpayers who were in the bottom 20 percent in 1996 moved up to a higher income group within 10 years

By chuck

November 14, 2007 1:21 PM | Link to this

If you want to read the full report you can find it here:

http://www.treasury.gov/press/releases/reports/incomemobilitystudyfinal.pdf

By chuck

November 14, 2007 1:26 PM | Link to this

ALSO, that massive tax cut has resulted in a HUGE increase in federal REVENUE. That’s right boys and girls, “voodoo” economics DOES WORK.

By No name please...

November 14, 2007 1:43 PM | Link to this

Thanks for the cut & paste from Fox “News” online opinions: Fresh pickings from the political grapevine entitled “What Made Saddam Hussein Almost Cry.”

Of course, what this “news” fails to clarify when reporting increased income is exactly how the increased income stacks up against increases in the cost of health care, gasoline, groceries, insurance, utilities, higher education, and communications. Has the average working man’s purchasing power increased? Has his or her ability to save increased? Hmmmm…. Well, if Brit Hume didn’t break it down for is, it must not be important.

By Chilao

November 14, 2007 1:45 PM | Link to this

Mara, no, never read Jeffery Deaver, but thanks for the author tip; I am right now going through, in order written, Michael Connelly’s books, LA homicide detective mostly. Separately, a retired FBI profiler who sometimes intersects with the LA homicide detective.

Bones to Ashes, hmmm. so you be one of the hold-folk keeping me from reading it? hmmm.. LOL.. Librarian a few weeks ago suggested I also could put it on hold, I replied “But that would connote some sort of organization on my part”. He laughed. The HOLD-SHELF was right next to the checkout.

By chuck

November 14, 2007 1:56 PM | Link to this

UHHH…Ki… oops, I mean NNP, if you can read, I also posted a link to the full report from the Treasury Deapartment. But then, I gues you are so blinded by your hate of “all things Bush” that you failed to see that.

By Doing the math

November 14, 2007 1:57 PM | Link to this

Hey, if we have a huge increase in federal revenue, why do we have such a gi-normous budget defecit and insurmountable debt? Also, how can we afford to pay for this 1.6 trillion dollar (so far) war? Where did that money come from? We didn’t borrow it from some godless communists, did we? Surely we’d all rather pay for the war as we go than borrow money from godless communists…. right? What the heck happened?

By chuck

November 14, 2007 2:19 PM | Link to this

Congress AND the President spending like DRUNKEN SAILORS.

By Jack

November 14, 2007 2:32 PM | Link to this

Eggsxactly. Today’s republicans are not conservatives. They are no more consevative than the democrats. They just borrow and spent instaed of tax and spend. We need the fair tax now but the politicos have no nads, no nads at all.

By NetBanker

November 14, 2007 2:42 PM | Link to this

I never had the opportunity to know my grandparents I’m sorry to hear you missed out on that experience, Mara. I was lucky enough to know all 4 of my grandparents as well as 1 set of great-grands.

LOL about the Sonny prayer comments. And boy was Neal Boortz railing on that this morning…”We don’t elect officials to pray, we elect them to pass legislation and TAKE ACTION.” I saw one of the national news shows last night with coverage of the prayer vigil. The 3 ladies whose response to a reporter who mentioned that government prayers for rain were unaswered in Alabama was ~very thick country accent~ “It don’t matter. It’s about faith.” Boy do we look good in front of the country.

But Chuck…most of the deficit spending isn’t due to WAR spending and it took up until Reagan to accumulate $1 Trillion in debt…since Reagan we’ve incurred $8T more?! Wars or not we’re accumulating debt faster and faster with most of that being incurred under Republican presidents. That debt could have been offset with tax increases just like we’ve done to pay for every other war.

By No name please...

November 14, 2007 2:44 PM | Link to this

Oh, okay Chuck. My bad; I apologize. You were perusing the government’s treasury department press releases, like you do every day in search of FACTS to relay to your students…. (snerk), and you happened across this interesting tidbit all by yourself, and you were not alerted to this by a Fox “News” commentator. Thanks for setting us straight. You’re the best.

By Lyrazel

November 14, 2007 2:45 PM | Link to this

Ah but do drunk sailors spend much? After one night of shore leave the wallet is pretty much empty…ESPECIALLY after meeting all them SAHMs having a rowdy time with the old man home… after 3 shots of grape juice things get pretty weird! Aint that right Archie?

By NetBanker

November 14, 2007 2:49 PM | Link to this

Congress AND the President spending like DRUNKEN SAILORS. Well that explains all the booze, tattoos, and prostitues! LOL! And why do we pick on the sailors? I’ve seen some seriously rowdy, drunken Army soliders and marines too.

By Jack

November 14, 2007 2:50 PM | Link to this

BTW. Posted this earlier but it didn’t go thru. We are ready for a female as president, just not Hillary. Just like her husband, her views change with the polls. She pretends that her marriage is hunky dory but we all know the only reason she has stayed with him is because of her thirst for power. The American people can see through this and she will lose. I don’t really like Rudy either. he is a wolf is sheep’s clothing. Mitt won’t make it because too many are hung up on his religion. I like Huckabee. Hopefully he’ll get it. he likes the fair tax.

By Chilao

November 14, 2007 3:00 PM | Link to this

rowdy, drunken Army soliders and marines too.

but do they have their very own song ditty named after them? (over hill, over dale, we will hit the dusty trail, as the caissons go rolling along does not qualify, as it does not mention their drunkenness)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drunken_Sailor

I wonder if that is a song allowable at Bible Camp campgrounds/camp-fires? what do you do with a drunken sailor?

By Mara

November 14, 2007 3:07 PM | Link to this

chuck - one report does not an economic trend make, especially considering that the time period only gives us two administrations to compare. Dubya doesn’t come out looking very well, that’s for sure.

• the ratio of debt to GDP went down an average of 3.89 percent per year during the Clinton years, but has gone up an average of 0.94 percent per year during the Bush years.

• The number of jobs in the economy increased 2.38 percent per year under Clinton, but it has decreased 0.17 percent per year under Bush. Not only did the Clinton years produce many more jobs than the Bush years have, but they also produced more full-time jobs compared to part-time jobs. This is an important indicator because in an economic slowdown many displaced and new workers resort to part-time work as a second-choice option. Overall, a decrease in the ratio of full-time to part-time jobs implies that a greater share of workers have less stable work with fewer benefits. The ratio…rose under Clinton by 0.11 percent per year, but it has decreased at an annual rate of 1.67 percent since the beginning of 2001…the ratio of full-time to part-time jobs has not only reversed direction, but as of September 2004 it has fallen below what it was before Clinton took office.

• This indicator is a weighted index based on the change in the number of jobs in different income quintiles under Clinton and Bush.13 A positive value represents job growth biased toward higher paying jobs, which reflects an upwardly mobile economy….The score of 4.70 during the Clinton administration means that the economy produced…more jobs in high-wage quintiles…the score of -1.0 during the Bush administration substantiates reports that new jobs created …have generally paid worse than the jobs that have been lost.

etc, etc, etc. Lots of numbers, lots of footnotes, lots of pesky facts…all of which you can check for yourself. Too much cut-n-paste leaves me feeling like I cheated. Here’s the link to the peice -

http://www.ppionline.org/ndol/print.cfm?contentid=252964

By Alexzgz

November 14, 2007 3:10 PM | Link to this

By Alexcpx

November 14, 2007 3:11 PM | Link to this

By Alexzgz

November 14, 2007 3:11 PM | Link to this

By Alexcpx

November 14, 2007 3:11 PM | Link to this

By Alexcpx

November 14, 2007 3:11 PM | Link to this

By chuck

November 14, 2007 3:12 PM | Link to this

That’s not what I said NNP and you know it. Unlike liberals who watch the communist news network and take everything they say as the gospel, when I hear a report, I go to the source. Yes I heard about the report from Brit Hume about 5:15 this morning, but I didn’t hear the whole story. When I got to school, I looked it up on fox, then googled the report so I could read it for myself. Knowing that petty little whiners like you would immediately chalk it up to the “faux news” channel, I decided to go ahead and post the link to the report.

Your biggest problem, if you don’t mind me pointing it out, is that you are small-minded. You almost never post anything of substance, though you are quick with a snide remark or a request for a citation, funny thing is you never seem to provide a citation for your little diatribes. You just go for the quick little…conservatives bad, slept with a bunch of them and they never called me back, conservatives bad.

You are very “clever” but you really don’t have much depth.

By chuck

November 14, 2007 3:19 PM | Link to this

Gotta call BS on that post Mara:

Robert D. Atkinson is vice president of PPI and director of its Technology & New Economy Project. Julie Hutto is a policy assistant at the Progressive Policy Institute.

No Bias there is there?

By Morgan

November 14, 2007 3:19 PM | Link to this

Being a woman in the presidential campaign could be viewed as an advantage and as a disadvantage

Advandtage: One could say that she gets some sympathy for being a woman. You could make a case for this stand, but…

Disadvantage: People may not want a woman for President. It is very easy for someone to claim america isn’t ready for that.

Either way, personally, I don’t think Hilary Clinton is the best choice for persident all gender issues aside.

By Morgan

November 14, 2007 3:20 PM | Link to this

Being a woman in the presidential campaign could be viewed as an advantage and as a disadvantage

Advandtage: One could say that she gets some sympathy for being a woman. You could make a case for this stand, but…

Disadvantage: People may not want a woman for President. It is very easy for someone to claim america isn’t ready for that.

Either way, personally, I don’t think Hilary Clinton is the best choice for persident all gender issues aside.

By chuck

November 14, 2007 3:21 PM | Link to this

I’m just messin’ with you NNP. I don’t care what or HOW you post.

By Jack

November 14, 2007 3:30 PM | Link to this

More depth in her little finger than you have in your entire body Chuck.

By chuck

November 14, 2007 3:32 PM | Link to this

BTW Jack, I agree with you about Huckabee, but I don’t like the idea of paying 30% in sales tax ever time I buy something. Right now that would bump gas prices up about 90 cents a gallon. I’d rather have a flat tax personally.

By NNP

November 14, 2007 3:45 PM | Link to this

No really, thanks for straightening me out, Chuck! I always know it’s my lucky day when I hear the words, “Your biggest problem is…” Please tell me the name of your church, so I can start coming every Sunday and Wednesday to learn how to be a good Christian like you and speak to people in a Godly, Jesus-loving way. (No web links, please. I want the REAL DEAL that you get! Since you are NOT a liar or a fake, I know you’ll give me the address and rejoice in the salvation I am soon to receive in the bosom of your bless-ed flock.)

By Jack

November 14, 2007 4:01 PM | Link to this

Under the fair tax Uncle Sam would not levy the 50 - 70 cents per gallon they presently get. Read the book.

By Walking or only talking?

November 14, 2007 4:39 PM | Link to this

Luke 6:27-38.

By NetBanker

November 14, 2007 5:26 PM | Link to this

Jack..I’m with you on the fair tax. Those who spend more will pay more in taxes…that mainly being the rich anyway, but at least it’s on consumption rather than earnings. Why should the government be able to take larger slices of income the more you make? They aren’t doing anything to make your salary go up. The nice extra in the fair tax is that illegal immigrants can’t duck the tax system either. Every purchase will be subjected to the tax so we gain access to millions more tax payers. And all those folks who don’t file or lie about their income…won’t matter either because it’s all about how much you spend under the fair tax.

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By Anonymous

November 15, 2007 8:34 AM | Link to this

NetBanker: Actually, that’s incorrect. The poor spend a MUCH larger portion of their income on consumption, which is why a consumption tax (rather than a wealth tax) is regressive.

A smarter reform would be to eliminate a lot of the loopholes, tax shelters, and caps on the existing tax structure that protect the rich. Boosting the capital-gains tax and preserving the estate tax, for example.

By chuck

November 15, 2007 9:17 AM | Link to this

Anonymous, as usual you don’t know what you are talking about. According to the proposal, for the first $37,000 (approximately, I would have to look it up to give you the exact amount) of income each tax payer would receive a “rebate” check for an amount equivalent to what they would spend in taxes for that amount of income. That would actually take about 53% of the people OFF OF THE TAX ROLLS. It would take care of the taxes that would be paid on groceries, medicine, and all other spending. In fact, this is just what the libs always wanted: most Americans getting a check from the government.

By chuck

November 15, 2007 10:16 AM | Link to this

Another thing that I don’t like about the fair tax is that big icket items would be priced out of site. For instance, a new car at a cost of $30,000 (32,100 with state sales tax) would automatically become $39,000. That’s a difference of about $150.00 per month in payment.

I think it is also a disincentive to buy new goods because there is no tax on USED goods. I think that ultimately that would hurt the economy and cost manufacturing jobs. Take away those production jobs and what are all those UGA grads gonna do for a living?

Another aspect that people don’t want to talk about is that it will lead to a barter economy. Why pay taxes on a service call when you can talk the service guy into a discount for cash or a trade of some sort that he needs?

I just think a 10% flat tax that everybody pays with no deductions and no loopholes is the best way to go. Everybody pays the same rate. The poor and the rich alike. The rich obviously end up paying more because their income is higher but paying the same rate is FAIR. We should not be penalizing success.

By Double Anonymous

November 15, 2007 11:11 AM | Link to this

Anonymous, your an idiot! You write like a first grader. Go back to 2nd grade. Read the Fair Tax book or STFU about it.

By Preacher

November 15, 2007 11:14 AM | Link to this

Dear Brother in Christ,

Thank you for your email. To answer your question: No. Do not lead trashy women to the door of our blessed church or to the salvation of our Lord. He did not die for everyone’s sins, only a select few. You see, real estate in heaven is limited. Keep dispensing judgement on your fellow man to secure ample square footage on one of the gold-paved streets. Property taxes are reasonable right now, but to keep it that way, we have to make sure that no qu-eers, trashy women, little brown towel-headed children, or open-minded voters are saved. No, this is not contrary to the Lord’s word. Okay, it is, but only because he didn’t know the kind of trash we’d have to deal with in the 21st century. Let them burn, it’s not our business to care how or what they do, so long as they don’t sully the steps of our church, or the streets of gold upon which we will dance and sing to their demise. Keep up the good work, and try to catch up on your tithes this week. The envelope has been a little light, brother.

By Monica

November 15, 2007 11:23 AM | Link to this

Hey to all! Just stopping by for a moment today.

I haven’t read all the posts, so I don’t know if this has been discussed, but what do you think of Warren Buffet’s research on who really pays more taxes, and his challenge to his billionaire buddies?

By Anonymous

November 15, 2007 11:29 AM | Link to this

DA: Wasn’t talking about the Fair Tax, I was discussing consumption taxes in general.

However, I have read the FairTax book; I just didn’t agree with it. That IS possible, you know.

By NetBanker

November 15, 2007 11:31 AM | Link to this

The poor spend a MUCH larger portion of their income on consumption, which is why a consumption tax (rather than a wealth tax) is regressive. Uhhh…we aren’t talking about a PROPORTION, but the total amount spent. The wealthy may spend less proportionally, but the tax isn’t based on the proportions…it’s paid based on TOTAL AMOUNT Spent.

Chuck…don’t forget that included in the cost of goods are the income taxes that corporations pay. There should be a drop in the price of goods by the amounts corporations pay which would then be offset by the Federal Sales Tax which means the overal cost of goods shouldn’t rise by as much as you’re thinking. If they do…well that goes to corporate greed.

Why pay taxes on a service call when you can talk the service guy into a discount for cash or a trade of some sort that he needs? I believe this is a misconception. We don’t currently pay sales tax on most services today and many people aren’t in a position to barter because what could they offer the person that would be valuable enough to offset the service being provided. Paying cash to keep a transaction off the books so that the service provider doesn’t have to declare it as income isn’t exactly a new tactic so I don’t see that changing. Now with my partner’s business we have bartered with other Sole Proprietor or small businesses on occassion for exchange of services.

By lozen

November 15, 2007 11:53 AM | Link to this

In fact, this is just what the libs always wanted: most Americans getting a check from the government. Did you get that intelligent comment from Hannity and FOX or did you come up with that on your own?

By Jack

November 15, 2007 12:05 PM | Link to this

Wrong Chuck. Read the book. Read both of the books. (I think the 2nd one is out now)

By Huh

November 15, 2007 12:11 PM | Link to this

In fact, this is just what the libs always wanted: most Americans getting a check from the government*

As opposed to the conservative view, if you can not make the money to live high and mighty, then you should live under the bridge?

By lozen

November 15, 2007 1:24 PM | Link to this

Difficult as it is to remember now, there was a time in the United States, as recently as fifteen or so years ago, when we were not engaged in constant political warfare. In those days Senator Max Cleland, who lost three limbs in a war, would not have been visually equated with Saddam Hussein in a television ad, something the Republicans did to him in 2002. The release of a declaration by, for example, the National Academy of Sciences was for the most part acknowledged as legitimate, and not attacked as a product of so-called liberal bias as its 2005 report on global warming was. From a review of “The Concience of A Liberal” written by Paul Krugman in this week’s ‘New York Review of Books’. It is difficult to remember those days.

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By Jack

November 15, 2007 1:27 PM | Link to this

Depends on which bridge. If you can’t make enough to live on, you’re not trying hard enough. I’m not opposed to lending a hand as long as it is not permanent.

By NetBanker

November 15, 2007 1:37 PM | Link to this

I’m not sure that I got a whole lot from the Warren Buffet story. What I’m understanding from it without the article specifically saying so is that the billionaires have/take more deductions so the percentage of income paid is lower than the average worker. I also heard recently that the top 10% of income earners pay more than 50% of federal taxes, but only account for 17% of all income earned in the U.S.

I think my issue with a flat tax rate is kind of the same as the graduated rate in place today. The more any individual works to earn more income the government ultimately gets more too. While it may be the exact same proportion taxing earnings in a flat tax, IMO, the concept of taxing income is contrary to the idea of rewarding the individual for hard work. Under the current structure the government is rewarded as much and sometimes more than the individual even though that individual isn’t receiving any more (or less for that matter) benefits from the government. If anything, those who earn more are less likely to need or receive benefits from the government. For example, higher earners are less likely to receive food stamps during a period of unemployment due to tapping into their own savings…or receiving food stamps while employed for that matter. An other example related to taxes other than income, higher earners are more likely to own more than one home therefore through property taxes are supporting multiple school systems despite only having children enrolled in one system…or not at all due to having them in private school. As a gay person I’m doubly SOL on this one since I have no children but am paying school taxes in 2 different states.

By chuck

November 15, 2007 1:39 PM | Link to this

Jack I’ve read the entire proposal a couple of times on their website. A whole lot of what they say is based on ASSUMPTIONS. Sure corporations add in the money for the income taxes they have to pay but there is no guarantee that they will back those costs out of their pricing. I also did the tax calculation work sheet on the site and I would end up with about the same amount of money in the fair tax plan as I have now, and that is assuming that their assumptions are correct. If their assumptions are off just a little bit, I’ll actually end up with LESS disposable income than I have now.

Another equally scary aspect of this whole thing is that the FAIR Tax proposal has to go through congress. Even if the idea was perfect and the assumptions correct, Congress could still screw it up beyond recognition. I’m not saying that I am totally against it, I’m just not sure that I trust the premise enough to support it at this point.

Finally, who is to say that congress won’t INCREASE THE RATE, if they decide to go on another wild spending spree?

By Lily Toad

November 15, 2007 1:43 PM | Link to this

About the Fair Tax not applying to used goods — do you mean when they are sold by an individual? Or, if I buy a used car from a dealership, I won’t pay sales tax? How about clothes from a consignment shop?

By NetBanker

November 15, 2007 1:46 PM | Link to this

Lozen…sadly it IS hard and getting harder to remember those days. I read in Tuesday’s WSJ an article about ‘web rage’ and wondered if the increase in electronic media hasn’t allowed a large proportion of web rage to flow over into the sound bites and media attacks we see today. The basic hypothesis in the article is that due to the ability to communicate with those who make us angry very quickly and in a manner that doesn’t require face-to-face contact that people are more apt to let fly at the peak of their anger. The added dimension of not having to actually face or speak to the person emboldens us to be more forceful in our attacks. I think there is a certain validity to this hypothesis as seen in my own experiences dealing with clients. We have one in particular who can be almost vicious by email, is more reasonable by phone, and is almost a push over in person.

I know it’s not Joke Friday yet, but I wanted to share a couple of bumper stickers I saw on the back of a car yesterday. #1 - Come the rapture can I have your car? #2 - Dear Lord, Please help me be the person my psychiatrist medicates me to be. #3 is a play on the silhoute of the naked chick, but it’s a fat guy in a ball cap with a beard.

By chuck

November 15, 2007 1:53 PM | Link to this

Speaking of Global warming. Here is an article by one of the founders of the weather channel that I found quite interesting:

By John Coleman

It is the greatest scam in history. I am amazed, appalled and highly offended by it. Global Warming; It is a SCAM. Some dastardly scientists with environmental and political motives manipulated long term scientific data to create an illusion of rapid global warming. Other scientists of the same environmental whacko type jumped into the circle to support and broaden the “research” to further enhance the totally slanted, bogus global warming claims. Their friends in government steered huge research grants their way to keep the movement going. Soon they claimed to be a consensus.

Environmental extremists, notable politicians among them, then teamed up with movie, media and other liberal, environmentalist journalists to create this wild “scientific” scenario of the civilization threatening environmental consequences from Global Warming unless we adhere to their radical agenda. Now their ridiculous manipulated science has been accepted as fact and become a cornerstone issue for CNN, CBS, NBC, the Democratic Political Party, the Governor of California, school teachers and, in many cases, well informed but very gullible environmentally conscientious citizens. Only one reporter at ABC has been allowed to counter the Global Warming frenzy with one 15 minute documentary segment.

I do not oppose environmentalism. I do not oppose the political positions of either party. However, Global Warming, i.e. Climate Change, is not about environmentalism or politics. It is not a religion. It is not something you “believe in.” It is science; the science of meteorology. This is my field of life-long expertise. And I am telling you Global Warming is a non-event, a manufactured crisis and a total scam. I say this knowing you probably won’t believe a me, a mere TV weatherman, challenging a Nobel Prize, Academy Award and Emmy Award winning former Vice President of United States. So be it.

I have read dozens of scientific papers. I have talked with numerous scientists. I have studied. I have thought about it. I know I am correct. There is no run away climate change. The impact of humans on climate is not catastrophic. Our planet is not in peril. I am incensed by the incredible media glamour, the politically correct silliness and rude dismissal of counter arguments by the high priest of Global Warming.

In time, a decade or two, the outrageous scam will be obvious. As the temperature rises, polar ice cap melting, coastal flooding and super storm pattern all fail to occur as predicted everyone will come to realize we have been duped. The sky is not falling. And, natural cycles and drifts in climate are as much if not more responsible for any climate changes underway. I strongly believe that the next twenty years are equally as likely to see a cooling trend as they are to see a warming trend.

By NetBanker

November 15, 2007 1:54 PM | Link to this

Even if the idea was perfect and the assumptions correct, Congress could still screw it up beyond recognition. No more true a statement has ever been posted on this or any other blog.

About the Fair Tax not applying to used goods — do you mean when they are sold by an individual? Or, if I buy a used car from a dealership, I won’t pay sales tax? How about clothes from a consignment shop? Good question, Lily! That doesn’t make sense to me either because today one pays the sales tax on those items. When I really think about it this strikes me as odd because someone already paid a tax the item initially so why should the change in ownership require the tax to be paid again? This is the same complaint many have about estates taxes in that the money was initially taxed as income and the money is taxed a second time upon the transfer of it to another individual.

By GOB

November 15, 2007 2:03 PM | Link to this

Wow. I am going to agree with Chuck. There are way too many assumptions in the Fair Tax plan for me to have much faith in it. I dont believe companies are going to lower prices by the amount that they no longer have to pay in taxes.

If I am a company that has conditioned consumers to believe that my product should cost $10, I am just going to see an increase in profit margins, or at best give a token price reduction while still maintaining higher margins.

By Monica

November 15, 2007 2:04 PM | Link to this

Net, the reason I was impressed with Warren Buffet is that he said in an interview that those who have been blessed in this society have a moral obligation to share - quite a different viewpoint from his fellow Forbes 400 cronies. He challenged the government to do something about it.

I understand your hesitation with a flat tax in that upper income earners will pay more taxes, but isn’t that already true? Doesn’t our income determine which tax bracket we fall into? I would think that at least with a flat tax, everyone has the same percentage of pay taken out.

I am fairly ignorant in the area of economics, but if I understand the fair tax correctly, if we have a recession, and people stop spending as much, will the federal revenue suffer as well? A teacher friend of mine lived in Tennessee when they did away with property taxes and imposed an increased sales tax on all goods - she said that it was a disaster for education in Tennessee. Teachers went seven years without raises, facilities weren’t reparied or renovated, and school systems could not afford to buy new textbooks.

By chuck

November 15, 2007 2:08 PM | Link to this

Lily Toad, from their FAQ page on the website:

What is taxed?

The FairTax is a single-rate, federal retail sales tax collected only once, at the final point of purchase of new goods and services for personal consumption. Used items are not taxed. Business-to-business purchases for the production of goods and services are not taxed. A rebate makes the effective rate progressive.

By Lily Toad

November 15, 2007 2:15 PM | Link to this

NetB, I never thought of that aspect — taxing twice. I sell used books and am required to collect sales tax, so that book is subject to sales tax every time it is sold (unless to another book dealer). Let’s say the person who buys it later sells it to a used book store (no sales tax, since it is sold for re-sale), then the store sells it again and collects sales tax once again.

Didn’t Georgia once try to get individuals selling cars to collect sales tax? Seems like they tried but no one complied, so they dropped the effort because it would be too hard to track.

By NetBanker

November 15, 2007 2:25 PM | Link to this

Monica…it is true that income determines tax bracket. It is also true that in a recession taxes would likely drop due to reduced spending. Of course in recessions jobs also tend to be lost so tax revenue would also go down due to fewer people paying taxes.

By Carbon Cycle

November 15, 2007 2:28 PM | Link to this

I am chemistry. I am facts. When the level of carbon in the atmosphere increases (from a volcanic eruption, for example) the carbon-to-oxygen levels change, thus affecting the rate at which the atmosphere absorbs heat from the sun, causing changes in weather patterns on the earth. This has been demonstrated via natural forces throughout the millenia.

When man digs out carbon that has been buried inside the earth for millions of years, man places that carbon into the cycle of movement and transferrence from which it had formerly been hidden away. Hence, man’s exhumation and burning of coal and oil do indeed affects the levels of carbon to oxygen in the atmostphere, thus precipitating changes in much the same way as natural eruptions from within the earth do.

When man tries to say that man has not done this, despite facts that man has indeed done this, man is a freaking moron. Man causes change in the atmosphere when man changes the earth. Where are the mountaintops in West Virginia? Man changed them. Where is the carbon that was inside those mountains? Forest Gump could answer that question, freaking moron.

By NetBanker

November 15, 2007 2:32 PM | Link to this

Lily…do you happen to know Jeff Dennis? I used to work with him and know that he’s had a ‘side’ business selling used and rare books. Just thought you made know him from festivals or trade shows.

I think you are correct about the sales tax on sale of autos between two individuals flopping due to non-compliance. That is also a rather difficult burden to place on individuals. Besides not only are our autos taxed when purchased but we pay that darn Ad Volorum tax every darn year…which to me is unfair also. Why should the value of my car matter when a mercedes uses the roads no more or less than a Yugo?

By Lily Toad

November 15, 2007 2:42 PM | Link to this

Netb, the name doesn’t ring a bell and I know a lot of book dealers. He must not sell at book fairs. Does he mostly sell on-line?

By Jack

November 15, 2007 3:08 PM | Link to this

Chuck. Competition will make the manufacturers lower their price. read the book. Much more info than on the website.

Carbon Cycle. You are the freekin moron. 30 years ago we were hearing that we were entering an ice age. Man has contributed some but not enough to warrant the fear that dopehead Gore is pushing.

By Jack

November 15, 2007 3:42 PM | Link to this

Net. You have a Yugo. I pictured you as a Beemer driver. LOL

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November 15, 2007 4:41 PM | Link to this

Jack…no Yugos or Beemers here. Mercedes, Jag, and Jeep.

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By Scalia

November 16, 2007 9:39 AM | Link to this

Chuck, it was almost believable about the Global Warming, but I instantly discredited the guy when he said the following:

Environmental extremists, notable politicians among them, then teamed up with movie, media and other liberal, environmentalist journalists to create this wild

When people make statements, whether it is is said about liberal or conservative, I tune it out.

By chuck

November 16, 2007 9:52 AM | Link to this

I understand that Scalia, but what does he have to gain by saying what he said? No doubt he sounds like a conservative, but he is a meteorologist and one of the founders of the Weather Channel. That gives what he says some credence in my mind.

On the other hand, those pushing the “global warming” hysteria are getting BILLIONS of dollars in grants to do studies. Gore acts like a rock star. He loves the attention the hollywood folks are heaping on him. I just don’t think that a 1 degree change over 50 years is that much to worry about.

By Jack

November 16, 2007 9:55 AM | Link to this

Hey Net,didn’t think you had a Yugo. Jag cool.

I am Jaguar paw, this is my forest. I am not afraid.

By lozen

November 16, 2007 10:02 AM | Link to this

Okay where are the jokes? It’s Friday!!!!

By chuck

November 16, 2007 10:04 AM | Link to this

Alright, it is Joke Friday.

Q: What do you call a bunch of rabbits in a row all hopping backwards? A: A receding hare line

By chuck

November 16, 2007 10:06 AM | Link to this

These sound like my favorite comedian Steven Wright:

If Con is the opposite of pro, is Congress the opposite of progress?

Why do fat chance and slim chance mean the same thing?

Before they invented drawing boards, what did they go back to?

If love is blind, why is lingerie so popular?

If one synchronized swimmer drowns, do the rest have to drown too?

If work is so terrific, how come they have to pay you to do it?

If you’re born again, do you have two bellybuttons?

If you ate pasta and antipasto, would you still be hungry?

If you try to fail, and succeed, which have you done?

Is a castrated pig disgruntled?

Why are hemorrhoids called “hemorrhoids” instead of “asteroids”?

Why is the alphabet in that order? Is it because of that song?

Why is there an expiration date on sour cream?

If most car accidents occur within five miles of home, why doesn’t everyone just move 10 miles away?

Don’t sweat the petty things and don’t pet the sweaty things.

I went to a bookstore and asked the saleswoman, “Where’s the self-help section?” She said if she told me, it would defeat the purpose.

Why do they put Braille dots on the keypad of the drive-up ATM?

Why is abbreviation such a long word?

Since light travels faster than sound, is that why some people appear bright until you hear them speak?

If it’s zero degrees outside today and it’s supposed to be twice as cold tomorrow, how cold is it going to be?

Isn’t Disney World a people trap operated by a mouse?

Can you imagine a world with no hypothetical situations?

By JokesOn

November 16, 2007 10:16 AM | Link to this

I do not believe a lone voice when there are thousands on the other side of the debate as well as evidence like polar bears/snails/polar caps.

I agree with carbon cycle as well. It is hard to argue with simple facts like the amount of carbon we pull out of the earth and put into the atmosphere daily for decades.

One for Chuckie:

An atheist was walking through the woods. “What majestic trees”! “What powerful rivers”! “What beautiful animals”! He said to himself.

As he was walking alongside the river, he heard a rustling in the bushes behind him.

He turned to look. He saw a 7-foot grizzly bear charge towards him.

He ran as fast as he could up the path. He looked over his shoulder & saw that the bear was closing in on him.

He looked over his shoulder again, & the bear was even closer.

He tripped & fell on the ground. He rolled over to pick himself up but saw that the bear was right on top of him, reaching for him with his left paw & raising his right paw to strike him.

At that instant the Atheist cried out, “Oh my God!”

Time Stopped. The bear froze. The forest was silent.

As a bright light shone upon the man, a voice came out of the sky. “You deny my existence for all these years, teach others I don’t exist and even credit creation to cosmic accident.” “Do you expect me to help you out of this predicament? Am I to count you as a believer”?

The atheist looked directly into the light, “It would be hypocritical of me to suddenly ask you to treat me as a Christian now, but perhaps you could make the BEAR a Christian”?

“Very Well,” said the voice.

The light went out. The sounds of the forest resumed. And the bear dropped his right paw, brought both paws together, bowed his head & spoke:

“Lord bless this food, which I am about to receive from thy bounty through Christ our Lord, Amen.”

By NetBanker

November 16, 2007 10:32 AM | Link to this

On the other hand, those pushing the “global warming” hysteria are getting BILLIONS of dollars in grants to do studies. I tend to agree that once the hysteria factor gets added in it discounts the message of either side. That said, I’m just not sure where to land on this global warning thing. On the one hand the Earth is a dynamic planet and life on it hasn’t been around all that long in comparison to the existence of the Universe. I just think that this is the first cycle in the course of global summers and global winters (i.e. much of the desert West used to be ocean floor v.s. the last ice age) that have been observed and measured by human beings who have the technologies to look at remote areas and communicate results.

On the other hand, I don’t think that we can afford to wait much longer to really solve the problems associated with our reliance on fossil fuels. Even if they don’t really or significantly contribute to global warming, we absolutely know that they foul the air, water, and negatively affect life. More importantly is that they are of a limited quantity and the remaining quantities are becoming harder and more expensive to extract from the Earth. Further, we are at the mercy of those who do control/have access to those resources as witnessed by the out of control oil prices. In my mind global warming is good reason to break our dependence, but I’d wager we’d get a lot more traction on moving alternatives forward by raising the awareness of the economic, safety, and other environmental impacts than simply screaming about warming.

By NetBanker

November 16, 2007 11:32 AM | Link to this

And more of the joys of globalization and outsourcing…

http://www.ajc.com/metro/content/printedition/2007/11/16/spying1116.html

“Advances by the Chinese military are catching U.S. intelligence officials by surprise.

And the Defense Department may be inadvertently outsourcing the manufacturing of key weapons and military equipment to factories in China…

The Pentagon increasingly is buying planes, weapons and military vehicles from private contractors that outsource the manufacturing to plants in China and elsewhere in Asia, the report said.

But when questioned by the commission, defense officials said they do not have the ability to track where the components of military equipment are being made…”

By chuck

November 16, 2007 12:12 PM | Link to this

So they can track over 5 million e-mails from the whitehouse but they can’t track the parts that go into our military weapons? Somehow that just doesn’t sound right does it?

By chuck

November 16, 2007 12:17 PM | Link to this

NetB, I have tried to find a video segment that was on NBC news about 3 years ago. Thjey did a story on a guy who made a modification on a gas engine that cost less than $100 at the time and doubled or tripled the mileage. It was on the NBC news website for a couple of weeks when it first came out but then it disappeared. I wrote them an e-mail about it, but they never answered it. Do you remember anything about it? I would buy that for all 5 of my vehicles if I could find it, but a web search didn’t reveal anything. Wonder if the oil companies bought the rights and buried it.

By Scalia

November 16, 2007 12:34 PM | Link to this

Of course they did, why would they want to decrease their profits?

By Jack

November 16, 2007 12:48 PM | Link to this

Hahahaha! Good one JokesOn.

By Monica

November 16, 2007 12:57 PM | Link to this

Hey Chuck! Do you ever watch Mythbusters? They actually got a car to run on fast food french fry grease! The options are great, I believe, for alternate fuel sources. Finding and tweaking is the problem.

By chuck

November 16, 2007 12:58 PM | Link to this

Stumpy and his wife Martha went to the State Fair every year.

Every year Stumpy would say, “Martha, I’d like to ride in that there airplane.”

And every year Martha would say, “I know, Stumpy, but that airplane ride costs ten dollars, and ten dollars is ten dollars.”

This one year Stumpy and Martha went to the fair and Stumpy said, “Martha, I’m 71 years old. If I don’t ride that airplane this year I may never get another chance. ”

Martha replied, “Stumpy, that there airplane ride costs ten dollars, and ten dollars is ten dollars.”

The pilot overheard them and said, “Folks, I’ll make you a deal. I’ll take you both up for a ride. If you can stay quiet for the entire ride and not say one word, I won’t charge you, but if you say one word it’s ten dollars.”

Stumpy and Martha agreed and up they go.

The pilot does all kinds of twists and turns, rolls and dives, but not a word is heard.

He does all his tricks over a gain, but still not a word.

They land and the pilot turns to Stumpy, “By golly, I did everything I could think of to get you to yell out, but you didn’t.”

Stumpy replied, “Well, I was gonna say something when Martha fell out, but ten dollars is ten dollars.”

By chuck

November 16, 2007 1:18 PM | Link to this

I like that idea monoica. I’ll take an order of fries and a gallon of grease.

By NetBanker

November 16, 2007 1:47 PM | Link to this

Good jokes today, Chuck! I vaguely recall something about that and thinking it’ll never happen en masse because the oil companies and auto makers will never let it happen. That’s the bit ch about the “free market” sometimes…useful technologies never get released due to the negative impact to the manufacterers’ bottom line.

My grandmother was convinced that panty hose makers followed that line of thinking. She said the nylons made during WWII would last for months without a run and in our modern times you’d get a run putting them on for the first time. “So much for modern technology” as she used to say.

By Annie

November 16, 2007 2:09 PM | Link to this

I don’t think women make good leaders. I have worked for numerous female bosses and I encounted nothing but STRESS. Women are catty, nasty and hormonal. I way prefer men to be leaders and will only work for male bosses now - flirting with male co-workers is also fun - to heck with sexual harrassment in the workplace. I hate this feminist crap anyway!

By Monica

November 16, 2007 2:33 PM | Link to this

Net, do you know that the original light bulb is still burning? Same philosophy as the panty-hose.

By Scalia

November 16, 2007 3:02 PM | Link to this

Net, it is not just the auto makers and oil companies, but mechanics and the car dealerships. I am convinced that it is not just the racism that has our transit system at a standstill, but also the auto makers, oil companies, mechanics, etc.

And we will be dependent on fossil fuels forever. Too much money in the business. Why give it up? The industry has us by the B-A-L-L-S.

By NetBanker

November 16, 2007 4:12 PM | Link to this

Monica…I did NOT know that!

Scalia…I can’t agree that we’ll be dependent on fossil fuels forever. Maybe for OUR lifetimes, but either they’ll run out, the environment will become too fouled to continueusing them instead of something else, or the human race will be wiped out by climate change or disease or war (most likely nuclear).

Otherwise I agree that I missed some industries or groups that also want to perpetuate the status quo. The sad thing with that situation is that those companies/goups have an amazing opportunity to gain public support by investing in and driving new technologies forward as they continue in the oil business. BP and maybe Shell are the only 2 I can think of off the top of my head that have any type of advertising that let’s the public know they are investing in renewable energy production even as they continue in the oil business. Imagine the good will that could be built by GM or any domestic auto manufacterer by significantly increasing gas mileage while they’re solving the hydrid or alternative fuels problem. I know they’re starting down those roads, but probably not fast enough.

By NetBanker

November 16, 2007 4:23 PM | Link to this

It’s probably too late for most to see this on Joke Friday, but I just received it in my email and had to share:

http://info.org.il/irrelevant/may02-smilepop-soapbox4.swf

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November 16, 2007 10:32 PM | Link to this

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November 16, 2007 10:32 PM | Link to this