AJC.com > Opinion > Woman to Woman > Archives > 2007 > April > 17 > Entry
Is the public too quick to judge men and excuse women during sexual assault accusations?
Shaunti Feldhahn, a right-leaning columnist, writes the commentary this week and Diane Glass, a left-leaning columnist, responds.
Shaunti Feldhahn, a right-leaning columnist, writes the commentary this week and Diane Glass, a left-leaning columnist, responds.
Commentary
For one year, three Duke University men have been publicly flogged by a media culture that assumes women never lie about sexual assault. And if the men are white and privileged, and the accuser is a poor black stripper, political correctness steamrolls any caution that might prevent innocent men from being ruined.
Don’t get me wrong; the Duke men were very wrong to be at a stripper party. And despite the accuser’s life-wrecking lie, I feel more sorrow for her than anger. The former strippers I know (courtesy of the research for my novel The Lights of Tenth Street, about that industry) all emphasize how desperate and trapped such women feel.
But those caveats aside, I believe our cultural influencers behaved appallingly in this case, and it will take strong measures to change things. I hate that it has come to this, but innocent men should sue organizations that allow or encourage public pre-judging. The Duke men should sue their university (for tacitly allowing students to identify the men as rapists) and every media outlet that pre-judged them, published their names and fomented public opinion against them. (Thankfully, their biased North Carolina prosecutor is already being investigated.)
The more severe fix would be prosecuting women who callously “bear false witness” — which is already supposed to be a crime. FBI data shows that at least 9% of rape accusations are patently false, and another FBI study found that in 20% of cases studied, the primary suspect was exonerated by DNA evidence.
Why should we assume that women are incapable of fabricating assault claims? In an interview, Wendy McElroy, Research Fellow at The Independent Institute, ifeminist.com editor, and a rape victim herself, regretted that our culture has given women “greater incentives to lie, as women rarely get a penalty for it. I’m sorry to see in this very high profile case, there will no legal consequences to lying.”
Fifty years ago, an actual rape victim in a similar situation might herself have been treated shamefully and pilloried in the media, while the rich white rapists shamefully got off scott free. Thankfully, that is no longer our culture - but the sins of the past do not excuse the reverse, shameful gender bias today.
Rebuttal
Social conservatives are all too quick to jump on the media bandwagon for the odd story that supports their world view. How ironic, given their chronic yelping about media bias. But sensationalistic stories like the Duke rape case smell of the sexist stench they love to hate: Women are a bunch of strippers just asking for it.
The reality is a lot less steeped in stereotype. According to a 1992 national survey, victims of sexual assault were 80 percent more likely to be raped by an acquaintance than by a pack of sophomoric college athletes looking for a lap dance. Most sexual assaults go unreported: a paltry 16 percent of rapes. And the perpetrators? Ninety-nine percent of the time they’re men, according to the U.S. Department of Justice.
Men are the victims here? Pardon me while I run out to buy some artificial tears.
If the statistics weren’t so skewed, Shaunti might have a point. As it stands, she acts as a male apologist with a naive understanding of the issue’s complexity. She calls for the prosecution of women making false accusations but the vast majority of women who are sexually assaulted aren’t women at all: 78 percent of them are under the age of eighteen, according to the U.S. Department of Justice. She calls for greater sensitivity to the plight of men as if there are statistics supporting this injustice but can only come up with a scant 9 percent statistic on false accusations that never even result in filed charges. I have news for her: A small percentage in all crimes consist of false accusations. Let’s weep for them all, not just a bunch of college-aged white boys.
If I looked to the media as a research source for pedophilia trends, I’d think every man walking the street was a predator. It’s a tragedy to hear about men spending years in jail for a rape they didn’t commit only to be cleared later by DNA testing. But so is hearing about a bus crash. Bad stuff happens. That doesn’t mean we should revert to old assumptions that rape victims are little Lolitas who should keep their legs crossed and their mouths shut.
Comments
By Ray
April 22, 2007 5:00 PM | Link to this
I’m a guy and I don’t think the public is too quick to judge men. When the shoe fits, you have to wear it, unfortunately. It’s just flat out true that most sexual assaults are performed by men. That doesn’t excuse the women who do it, but reality is what it is. I’ll be talking about just that subject soon at my new site.
I like you two. You offer great informed opinions. I’ll definitely be returning here in the future to see what you’ve got cooking! Have a great day everyone.
Ray
By MenNotPunished
April 23, 2007 9:00 AM | Link to this
A 48-year old man was arrested after officers found him in the bushes at his ex-girlfriend’s apartment. She had called the police for an escort because she feared the man was there. Officers briefly saw him in the bushes but he fled. One of the officers got his cell number from the victim and called it. The man answered. He was arrested a minute or so later. He had several outstanding warrants on him including False Imprisonment (Domestic Violence) and Battery, also domestic.
By JokesOn
April 23, 2007 9:16 AM | Link to this
After all that schooling Diane still does not know how to stay on topic and answer the question posed?
How the heck did she graduate?
By MenNotPunished
April 23, 2007 9:17 AM | Link to this
A juror who participated in the first rape trial for Brian Nichols, the suspect in the courthouse killings thought Nichols was guilty. The trial, which took place three weeks, ended in a hung jury after 15 hours of deliberations.
When deliberations began, nine of the 12 jurors wanted to convict Nichols of raping and holding hostage his ex-girlfriend. But by the end of the second day, the jury was deadlocked — voting eight to four in favor of acquittal.
“In the end, I really felt like I didn’t want to let him go,” a juror said. “If it had to be a mistrial, I was willing to live with that, but I didn’t want to change my vote to not guilty.”
He was convinced by the physical evidence against Nichols and by the alleged victim’s testimony. “The testimony of the victim lasted a day-and-half and she had just an extreme level of detail in her testimony,” . “On the other hand, Brian Nichols took the stand in our case and he testified as well for a few hours and his account of the same story had no detail at all.”
I feel crushed by what happened during Nichols’ retrial one week later. “I wish I had been able to convince the rest of the jurors to deliver a guilty verdict. I wish that we had been able to put him in jail and keep this from happening,” he said.
Another juror also voted to convict Nichols and feared he would commit more violence if allowed to go free.
He pointed out Nichols was accused of using duct tape to tie up his ex-girlfriend in the bathroom, just as he is accused of tying up Ashley Smith, the hostage who eventually turned him in.
The two jurors said everyone on the jury thought he was probably guilty, but most felt there was not enough evidence. They had reasonable doubt.
By MenNotPunished
April 23, 2007 9:22 AM | Link to this
A Smyrna, Ga. special education teacher charged with sexual exploitation of children was released from jail Thursday morning after posting a $15,000 bond.
Brian Paul Krupa, 34, was arrested Wednesday after an undercover Internet investigation by Smyrna police. Police said Krupa was found to be in possession of child pornography, which he offered to undercover officers for distribution.
RELEASED??
By MenNotPunished
April 23, 2007 9:27 AM | Link to this
A convicted sex offender denied raping two teenage girls in an underground room he built behind his home and insisted on the witness stand Sunday that he was telling the truth.
During an hour of often contentious cross-examination, Kenneth Glenn Hinson reiterated what he told the jury Saturday — that sex he had with two then 17-year-old girls in March 2006 was consensual and that he hid from police for four days because he thought they wanted him on drug charges.
The two girls have testified that Hinson, 48, took them from a bedroom in their Darlington County home while they slept and dragged them to a secret underground room. Prosecutors allege he bound them with duct tape, raped them and left them to die because the room had no air supply. The girls managed to free themselves and escape, prosecutors maintain.
The girls names are being withheld because The Associated Press does not identify alleged victims of sex crimes.
CONVICTED SEX OFFENDER RELEASED TO OFFEND AGAIN.
By MenNotPunished
April 23, 2007 9:30 AM | Link to this
An ex-con who spent several years in prison for a fatal robbery was indicted Tuesday on murder charges in the fatal shooting two weeks ago at the CNN headquarters complex.
Prosecutors did not say whether they would seek the death penalty against Arthur Mann for the April 3 slaying of his ex-girlfriend, 22-year-old Clara Riddles. They plan to meet with her family within the next few weeks to discuss sentencing options.
Mann, 39, is charged in the indictment with murder, felony murder, kidnapping with bodily injury, aggravated assault with a deadly weapon, possession of a firearm during the commission of a felony and possession of a firearm by a convicted felon, according to the district attorney’s office.
The indictment says Mann confronted Riddles at her job at a hotel attached to the CNN Center and dragged her by her hair to an escalator. When she tried to resist, he shot her twice, prosecutors said.
A MURDERER RELEASED TO MURDER AGAIN.
By JokesOnU
April 23, 2007 9:32 AM | Link to this
Mann confronted Riddles at her job at a hotel attached to the CNN Center and dragged her by her hair to an escalator. When she tried to resist, he shot her twice, prosecutors said.
Shocking.
By MenNotPunished
April 23, 2007 9:41 AM | Link to this
A teenager accused of gunning down his principal told detectives in a videotaped interview that he didn’t mean to kill him but “freaked out” when the principal tackled him in a school hallway.
Eric Hainstock, 16, also told investigators in the same interview hours after Principal John Klang was fatally shot that he’d been in anger management classes for years but found them useless. Authorities say Hainstock, then 15, walked into the school before classes and shot Klang three times as the principal tried to wrestle the boy to the ground. Klang managed to disarm Hainstock but died later that day.
Why was this kid still in school if he was in anger management classes?
By i'mjussayin'
April 23, 2007 9:41 AM | Link to this
There are women who identify with males more than women… Shaunti. And then there are woman-identified women… Diane. Shaunti thinks poor men are always being picked on. I don’t see much evidence of that! No group can count on being treated fairly all the time. I don’t think the practices Shaunti says took place 50 years ago have truly ended for a lot of women either.
By JokesOn
April 23, 2007 9:42 AM | Link to this
Hey whiley,
You should get on some meds soon.
By JokesOn
April 23, 2007 9:46 AM | Link to this
Whiley is of the opinion that all men should be punished for the acts of the .05% that are violent.
Not shocking at all whiley. We know your stance and it has been debunked numerous times, not to mention it is unconstitutional, sexist and evil.
By JokesONyou
April 23, 2007 9:56 AM | Link to this
JokesOn thinks guys who rape & abuse women isn’t a big deal.
Mann confronted Riddles at her job at a hotel attached to the CNN Center and dragged her by her hair to an escalator. When she tried to resist, he shot her twice, prosecutors said.
you probably think it was the exgirlfriends fault right?
By idisagree
April 23, 2007 9:58 AM | Link to this
You should get on some meds soon pendejo.
By JokesOn
April 23, 2007 10:03 AM | Link to this
JokesOn thinks guys who rape & abuse women isn’t a big deal.
Please show me where I stated that.
By JokesOn
April 23, 2007 10:08 AM | Link to this
you probably think it was the exgirlfriends fault right?
The only way you are able to have a point is to state my side (incorrectly) for me. Where-as I have used your points against you accurately.
This proves you are simply a hateful person, which is no different that the violent men that you rally against.
Seems that you fit the category of people that identify with a persons negative traits and cannot stand that. You should look in the mirror sometime.
By Kristie Carter
April 23, 2007 10:09 AM | Link to this
Although I sympathize with the plight of the Duke players mentioned in this issue of Woman to Woman, I find it hard to muster such compassion for the accuser. She deliberately set out to ruin 4 young men, and as such, should be held legally and morally accountable for her actions. She should be required to serve some serious time in counselling and community service. These young men really had no business being in such an environment of strippers and drinking anyway. Have their parents dealt with those moral short-comings? And what about our justice system? We simply cannot abide by women (or men either for that matter) accusing others of offenses that will permanantly change the lives of those being accused. Georgia’s Department of Corrections Commissioner, James Donald actually seems pleased with the fact that Georgia is #5 on the country’s highest prison population and recently hitting the 60,000 population mark. Many of those 60,000 are good men who have been accused of sexual offenses that will now have to lose years of their lives in prison, and forever carry the stigma of being a sex offender, simply because some greedy, malicious wife/ ex-wife or step-daughter decided they wanted to remove him from the scene the easy way. To our State prosecutors,… here’s my advice. Check out all of the story before you play God in someone else’s life and ruin it. Women are nasty creatures, and should be held to standards just as high as our men.
By Iagree
April 23, 2007 10:09 AM | Link to this
Thank you MenNotPunished, or whoever you want to be today. You have listed a few good examples of why women are not treated fairly even in cases where it is clear a crime was committed.
I heard that if a victim of rape decides to drop the charges for any reason (fear, fear of the courts, family) that it is counted as making a false accusation?
Here is another example to add to NotPunished’s list.
Rape is not reported most of the time because women know they will be the primary one on trial, not the rapist. Rape is not taken seriously in most of the world. Here is another good example of that.
Since 2001, more that 2,600 Guatemalan women and girls have been killed and the numbers seem to be accelerating - 110 were murdered in January and February this year alone. Only a negligible number of their killers has ever been convicted. They call it femicide, claiming that while male victims are much more likely to die because they get involved in disputes, or join violent groups, women are being targeted in unprovoked attacks. “Many more men die, it’s true, but women are being killed because they are women,”
By Been There
April 23, 2007 10:10 AM | Link to this
…but the sins of the past do not excuse the reverse, shameful gender bias today.
Wha..? (Does Shaunti share what she smokes?) Is it any wonder so many women choose to suffer the shame and hurt in silence, rather than going to the police — which is the same as going public? Studies have it at less than 20% reported… Less than half of those are convicted. Yes, get back to us Ms. Feldhahn when rape victims acctually have a chance to get justice without being victimized again by smug know-it-alls like you. Until then, we’ll just live with our nightmares and the inability to trust. Thanks SO MUCH!
By Mara
April 23, 2007 10:19 AM | Link to this
I would support harsh consequences for anyone who knowingly files a false crime report. I’m sure there’re instances when what one thinks must have happened…didn’t. So that’s why I say “knowingly”. And by “anyone” I mean man, woman, or child. Anyone.
That being said, in this age of Big Media and 24-hour-a-day almost instantaneous news, I think the only way to keep society from making knee-jerk assumptions is to take all the headline writers, the newsshow editors, Nancy Grace, Rush Limbaugh, Bill O’Reilly and Greta Van Sustren and mount their metaphoric heads upon metaphoric pikes and metaphorically parade them around primetime TV like the “Facts? We don’ need no steenkeen’ Facts!”- jump-to-conclusion, sensantionalist gossip-mongers that they really are.
By GoodInfo4U
April 23, 2007 10:21 AM | Link to this
The National Crime Victimization Survey includes statistics on reported and unreported crimes in America. Sexual assault is one of the most underreported crimes, with more than half still being left unreported. Every two and a half minutes, somewhere in America, someone is sexually assaulted. One in six American women are victims of sexual assault, and one in 33 men. In 2004-2005, there were an average annual 200,780 victims of rape, attempted rape or sexual assault. About 44% of rape victims are under age 18, and 80% are under age 30.
Contrary to the belief that rapists are hiding in the bushes or in the shadows of the parking garage, almost two-thirds of all rapes were committed by someone who is known to the victim. 73% of sexual assaults were perpetrated by a non-stranger — 38% of perpetrators were a friend or acquaintance of the victim, 28% were an intimate and 7% were another relative.
Although much progress has been made in recent years to reduce the stigma of rape and gradually raise reporting rates, nationally publicized sexual assault cases can significantly influence public opinion. That can result in victims being afraid they won’t be believed, and may discourage some from coming forward.
“We hope that seeing how seriously investigators pursued the allegation will encourage rape victims to come forward and report their assault. It will be a great tragedy if the Duke case discourages victims from coming forward and reporting their attack to police.”
By JOKESonU
April 23, 2007 10:29 AM | Link to this
Women are nasty creatures, and should be held to standards just as high as our men.
ROFL ! We put standards on men? Like what?
When a woman is a victim of a crime it’s always,”what was she doing, why did she date him? why was she there?”.
Those Duke kids were being rowdy, drinking, doing drugs & hiring strippers. Why were they there? Why did they put themselves in that situation? Why were they drinking? What were they wearing?
YES we need to put the same standards on men & women equally.
By Mara
April 23, 2007 10:41 AM | Link to this
Check out all of the story before you play God in someone else’s life and ruin it.
Eh? A prosecutor is “playing God” and ruining someone’s life when they investigate a plausible accusation that ultimately ends up NOT being true? It was the Grand Jury that issued indictments, NOT the prosecutor. Were THEY “playing God” and blithely ruining someone elses life? Of course not. They were doing what they were expected to do, look at the evidence presented to them and on that basis, decide if a trial should take place. That the populace tends to ignore the finer nuances of fact and evidence when forming opinions, is an unfortunate socialogical given that has NOTHING to do with the legal process.
Women are nasty creatures
no dislike for the gender there, eh Kristi? Not only are we women mere “creatures”, we are nasty creatures at that! Best be careful of cooties and watch out for that slime trail our nasty selves leave in our wake…
what a tool…
By Archie
April 23, 2007 10:47 AM | Link to this
I say yes to the topic question and men should know the public is too quick judge during sexual assault accusations.
Don’t get me wrong; the Duke men were very wrong to be at a stripper party. I disagree with that statement because it is not illegal to have a stripper party as far as I know. Stripper parties occur all the time and nothing bad happens and it is only when something bad does happen that we get the attitude Shanti espouses.
Duke men should sue their university (for tacitly allowing students to identify the men as rapists) I disagree with that statement because men are pretty much always identified in a sexual assault situation. Men just have to put up with it until cleared. I really feel sorry for those men and the prosecutor is really the villain in this situation because he resources, professional education,etc. He should have done better by those guys. Everyone,everyone else was simply manipulated.
A small percentage in all crimes consist of false accusations. Let’s weep for them all, not just a bunch of college-aged white boys. I really agree with Diane on that statement and she needs to say it louder because so many men of color have been cleared recently because of DNA which meant they should not have been jailed in the first place.
Finally, I agree with Shanti and Diane on certain things. We should not just be concerned when white guys get falsely accused but really look for justice for all. I do think there should be some penalty for a false accusation of rape even if it’s just a fine but I do understand if the prosecutor decides not to pursue a false accuser.
By Jake
April 23, 2007 10:47 AM | Link to this
I too am surprised at Diane’s inability to stick to the question posed. You liken a man falsely accused and convicted of a crime, who is later acquitted by DNA evidence, to a random bus crash. Such a comparison is ludicrous. One is a random act, the other is the result of either intentional deception and/or mistakes of fact, in the face of, presumed, claims of innocence.
For charges of rape, or any other crime, we should strive for Shaunti’s goal of never taking only the word of the victim: always look and find corroborating evidence. It my be a prior statement, evidence of bruises, a witness either to the event or one who met with the victim shortly after the crime occurred and can corroborate the victim’s story. Finally, one would think that Diane would do more than “run out and buy some artificial tears” after seeing how one false accusation can affect the lives of several men. All three Duke players who were accused were innocent of any criminal conduct, but b/c of the false accusations: the coach lost his job; the entire team had to forfeit their season; individuals lost job offers / had offers retracted; families spend thousands on unnecessary legal defenses (regardless of the wealth of the boys’ families, this is inexcusable.); the faculty of the Duke university embarrassed themselves with their pre-mature calls for “action”; Duke lacrosse players were harassed day and night by their fellow students, all for merely being a teammate of one falsely accused; the state of NC spent thousands of dollars unnecessarily. And there have been hardly any apologies to those three young men by those who were so quick to judge, accuse, and condemn them. Diane should be embarrassed for her comments here. I do not know if she is one of the many who need to, but have not, apologized to the entire Duke lacrosse team, the former coach, and the three who were wrongly accused.
Rape is horrible crime. Child abuse is horrible, too, as are many other crimes. However, to rush to accuse anyone of any crime, without doing a proper investigation, in inexcusable.
By Renee
April 23, 2007 10:49 AM | Link to this
Mara - good 10:19 comment.
I think that society, as well as the media, IS quick to jump on the bandwagon and smite the men and pay pity to the women. That being said, are horrific crimes done to women. Absolutely. But also there are women who falsely report crimes, call the police etc… just because they know that it will be dealt with because THEY are a woman. How many domestic violence cases are brought because a woman not only initiated, but instigated the violence, perpetrated the violence and THEN called the police to have her boyfriend/husband locked up. Happens ALL the time, unfortunately. And the police have to do their best to make a judgment call at the scene, which unfortunately is not always right. Somehow, we as a society have to be able to make correct assertations on a case by case and not on a blanket basis.
Hi to all, I’ve missed you!!
By Monica
April 23, 2007 10:53 AM | Link to this
Well-said, Mara. I agree. I don’t think that anyone is down-playing sexual crimes that are committed. To answer the question, the public is too quick to judge, period. We are too easily swayed by sensationalist media before we collect all the facts to make an informed decision.
By Renee
April 23, 2007 10:54 AM | Link to this
When a woman is a victim of a crime it’s always,”what was she doing, why did she date him? why was she there?”.
Education is key to resolving a problem. While crimes SHOULD not happen to women, they do. So as a woman, figure out what you can do to prevent it. Should you be able to wear what you like, of course, but maybe wearing a scantily clad outfit complete with clear heels, is NOT the attire to wear to a frat party, or down a dark alley late at night, especially if you do want to advertise your goodies. No, advertisement does not give a freepass to your goodies, but likewise, lack of advertisement would prevent problems as well. I’d rather be safe in my blue jeans and tshirt than make a point in my miniskirt and stripper heels.
By Mara
April 23, 2007 10:56 AM | Link to this
was I the only one to notice how quick Shaunti was to make sure we knew that the only reason she even knew any strippers was because she was researching a book? LOL!!
I mean, they aren’t really strippers, they are former strippers so why did she have to qualify it? It’s not as if hanging with “working” strippers would get you kicked out of the High Holy Order of Blessed Conservatives. Heck, if she knows the right strippers, she could probably barter her way into the party leadership if she wanted to.
ROTFLMAO!!
By Archie
April 23, 2007 11:00 AM | Link to this
I am glad to read your comments Renee. Renee I have seen women instigate so much at a bar then when the guy she has perpetrated the violence on really gets mad she runs to get security who in turn throw the guy out. Guys that are really guilty get away so many times. I think something bad did happen to the stripper in the Duke case but she didn’t know what to call it so she called it rape but the prosecutor was supposed to be the intelligent,objective person in this case and he wasn’t…
By Monica
April 23, 2007 11:02 AM | Link to this
Hi Renee! Great post! That’s what I tell my female students: “Don’t advertise goods that aren’t for sale.” It might not be fair for women to have to be so careful about dress, but life isn’t fair, so deal with it the best that you can. If you don’t want a guy to think you might be an easy purchase, don’t dress the part.
By Archie
April 23, 2007 11:04 AM | Link to this
I noticed that too Mara. ROTFLMAO.
By Mosquito ringtone
April 23, 2007 11:11 AM | Link to this
Download ringtones, real tones, polyphonic ringtones, java games, mobile videos and free realtones for your mobile phone. Mosquito ringtone [url=http://bama.ua.edu/~counsed/stephens/ubb/Forum1/HTML/000290.html ]Mosquito ringtone[/url] http://bama.ua.edu/~counsed/stephens/ubb/Forum1/HTML/000290.html Free nokia ringtones [url=http://bama.ua.edu/~counsed/stephens/ubb/Forum1/HTML/000291.html ]Free nokia ringtones[/url] http://bama.ua.edu/~counsed/stephens/ubb/Forum1/HTML/000291.html Nextel ringtones [url=http://bama.ua.edu/~counsed/stephens/ubb/Forum1/HTML/000292.html ]Nextel ringtones[/url] http://bama.ua.edu/~counsed/stephens/ubb/Forum1/HTML/000292.html Download free ringtones [url=http://bama.ua.edu/~counsed/stephens/ubb/Forum1/HTML/000294.html ]Download free ringtones[/url] http://bama.ua.edu/~counsed/stephens/ubb/Forum1/HTML/000294.html Motorola ringtones [url=http://bama.ua.edu/~counsed/stephens/ubb/Forum1/HTML/000295.html ]Motorola ringtones[/url] http://bama.ua.edu/~counsed/stephens/ubb/Forum1/HTML/000295.html Polyphonic ringtones [url=http://bama.ua.edu/~counsed/stephens/ubb/Forum1/HTML/000296.html ]Polyphonic ringtones[/url] http://bama.ua.edu/~counsed/stephens/ubb/Forum1/HTML/000296.html Mp3 ringtones [url=http://bama.ua.edu/~counsed/stephens/ubb/Forum1/HTML/000297.html ]Mp3 ringtones[/url] http://bama.ua.edu/~counsed/stephens/ubb/Forum1/HTML/000297.html Free ringtones [url=http://bama.ua.edu/~counsed/stephens/ubb/Forum1/HTML/000298.html ]Free ringtones[/url] http://bama.ua.edu/~counsed/stephens/ubb/Forum1/HTML/000298.html
By JokesOn
April 23, 2007 11:14 AM | Link to this
I wonder what the world would be like if our penis’ were on our chest?
You think we could were tight shirts without support in the mall?
By Renee
April 23, 2007 11:18 AM | Link to this
Mara, yes I did notice that LOL….
By Maya
April 23, 2007 11:23 AM | Link to this
Don’t get me wrong; the Duke men were very wrong to be at a stripper party. I disagree with that statement because it is not illegal to have a stripper party as far as I know. Stripper parties occur all the time and nothing bad happens and it is only when something bad does happen that we get the attitude Shanti espouses.
What is WRONG is that you defend a mob of drunk men who think there is nothing wrong with PAYING for a complete stranger to strip completely naked. That it’s normal for a mob of drunk men to surround a naked woman yelling & hooting, swearing acting like a bunch of sex offenders. What is wrong that this behavior is encouraged in males.
It’s only bad for the WOMAN. It’s only immoral for the WOMAN. If something happens the WOMAN should have known better, she’s the stripper so that’s what you get.
A woman can & should dress how she wants to. If a man commits a heinous crime due to the dress style of a woman he should be immediatly taken out of society for the rest of his life. Women should dress how they want to, men should not use it as an excuse to rape.
Come on now, what women wear has nothing to do with rape. That’s an old blame game. The discussion should be why DO men rape? Whey DO they see no wrong in paying for strippers?
By Renee
April 23, 2007 11:23 AM | Link to this
Is “Mennotpunished” Whiley??
Well, regardless of who it is, here goes. In all fairness, your stories and statistics may be true, but biased for your “side”. For every story you come up with, I can come up with a man, relased by the innocence project who has served over 10 years in jail for a crime he did not commit. And I would venture to take it an extra step to say that the innocent project has only been able to help a fraction of people who need help. Are jails full of innocent people, NO, but by the same token, there are too many innocent people serving time for crimes they have not committed, while the REAL criminals remain on the street.
By Good Guy
April 23, 2007 11:23 AM | Link to this
What a terrible topic this week—one sure to raise bad feelings in both men and women alike.
The worst fallout from rape has to be the loss of a good feeling about yourself in addition to the lost trust of men. I pray any of you ladies here who were ever assaulted can find a good man to move forward with. We’re not all bad. And some of us do actually understand.
By DebbieDoRight
April 23, 2007 11:24 AM | Link to this
Why is Shaunti crying over the Duke players? Did she cry over Kobe Bryant? Can’t recall her article on that one…..
By Good Guy
April 23, 2007 11:25 AM | Link to this
Can anyone think of a more positive topic for the rest of the week?
By whatdoesthatmean
April 23, 2007 11:25 AM | Link to this
“when the guy she has perpetrated the violence on”
?????????????
By Jack
April 23, 2007 11:26 AM | Link to this
It would be better on our chins. :)
By Mara
April 23, 2007 11:32 AM | Link to this
RENEE!!! (big hug) Hey girl. Thanks for the kudos on the comment.
Mornin’ Monica :^) Thanks to you, too.
to all…something to consider - Men rape more than women lie about being raped. Is it being “too quick to judge” when statistics show that an accusation of assault is all too likely to be true? I mean if accusations of a crime are deemed to be substantiated 90% of the time and a complete fabrication the other 10%, isn’t it just human nature to assume that the accusation is likely to be true?
By kimberly
April 23, 2007 11:41 AM | Link to this
BREAKING NEWS: Convicted child rapist in South Carolina who bragged about his dungeon was just AQUITTED of kidnapping and raping two teenage girls.
By Renee
April 23, 2007 11:42 AM | Link to this
That’s a fair statement, Mara. But I would say that statistically if it is a 90% true, 10% unsubstantiated, then 10% is absolutely too much. I know we are working with guesses on these figures, however, I think there is enough margin to cast a doubt on someone’s accusations. Also, in situations, where it’s not a random rape, and it’s one womans word against the man’s word, do we not automatically sympathize with the woman and snarl at the man, when we don’t have enough facts to really assertain either way,
By JokesOn
April 23, 2007 11:43 AM | Link to this
What a terrible topic this week—one sure to raise bad feelings in both men and women alike.
I do not understand why the topic must be so damaging. No one thinks that men should be allowed to act violently, or get released after such behavior from the posts I have seen.
I do understand that difficulty arises when addressing what to do about males, in comparison to women, being more prone to violence. There are some women that want to deny that they female counterpart categorically does not have any culpability.
These (specific) women want to take the worst case scenario and make it a function to judge all other cases by.
I also do not understand what the issue with both people being fully interviewed is about. That is the purpose of the legal system: to weigh each side completely and fairly.
Innocent until proven guilty, right?
By JokesOn
April 23, 2007 11:45 AM | Link to this
isn’t it just human nature to assume that the accusation is likely to be true?
Isn’t that why we have a system in place? To prevent people from just letting their emotions rule the case and not evidence?
Do you have an issue with that?
By Archie
April 23, 2007 11:47 AM | Link to this
“to all…something to consider - Men rape more than women lie about being raped. Is it being “too quick to judge” when statistics show that an accusation of assault is all too likely to be true? I mean if accusations of a crime are deemed to be substantiated 90% of the time and a complete fabrication the other 10%, isn’t it just human nature to assume that the accusation is likely to be true?*
Those are good statements but the 10% that have to go sit in jail suffer beyond what’s necessary. As a man I know we do a lot of things just plain wrong but when a man is falsely accused the consequences can be severe. If you serve 10 years in jail for a crime you didn’t commit you don’t feel good hearing, well most men do commit the crime they are accused of.
By Good Guy
April 23, 2007 11:49 AM | Link to this
These (specific) women want to take the worst case scenario and make it a function to judge all other cases by.
Whether it’s “fair” or not, our job as men is to be compassionate, JokesOn, not critical. They need our love and support, just as we need their love and support.
By MenNotPunished
April 23, 2007 11:56 AM | Link to this
BREAKING NEWS: Convicted child rapist in South Carolina who bragged about his dungeon was just AQUITTED of kidnapping and raping two teenage girls.
I am so shocked there are no words. There is nothing to say except DO YOU SEE NOW? ! MEN ARE NOT TREATED UNFAIRLY AT ALL ! This is BS.
ONCE AGAIN A CLEAR CASE OF ANOTHER SEX OFFENDER GETTING AWAY WITH IT. AGAIN ! FEMALES NOT BELIEVED.
It’s hard not to hate this male dominated world. What a joke.
Is THIS rape case getting filed under unsubstantiated too?
By Good Guy
April 23, 2007 11:57 AM | Link to this
BTW, JokesOn—Does your first name begin with an “R”? I ran into Ted at a show the other night, and he thought of two people who fit your description.
By JokesOn
April 23, 2007 11:58 AM | Link to this
Good guy,
I should support criminalizing all males because of the .05% of males that act sick?
By JokesOn
April 23, 2007 12:00 PM | Link to this
You see it as critical, I see it as expecting people to act like rational adults.
By Good Guy
April 23, 2007 12:01 PM | Link to this
Anyone else here going to run the Peachtree Road Race this year? It’s a lot of fun, and lots of good looking ladies there also. I’m following a special “herbal” training regimen this year. ; > }
See you all later, time to start “training”.
By JokesOn
April 23, 2007 12:02 PM | Link to this
BTW, JokesOn—Does your first name begin with an “R”? I ran into Ted at a show the other night, and he thought of two people who fit your description.
Matter of fact it does.
By Good Guy
April 23, 2007 12:02 PM | Link to this
I should support criminalizing all males because of the .05% of males that act sick?
Of course not. But we still need to be compassionate, not hateful in return.
By JokesOn
April 23, 2007 12:04 PM | Link to this
They need our love and support, just as we need their love and support.
I seek love and support from my peers. Children need to be guided, whether male or female, not enabled or patronized.
By Good Guy
April 23, 2007 12:09 PM | Link to this
Children need to be guided, whether male or female, not enabled or patronized.
I agree that enabling and patronizing aren’t the way to go, but am not sure anymore about the “guidance” thing. Seems like that’s just one more form of patronizing, no?
I think children mostly need to be just loved, whether we’re talking about actual children or just “The Child Within”, which we all have.
By Good Guy
April 23, 2007 12:11 PM | Link to this
Matter of fact it does.
Ha Ha. Your cover is blown now, man.
Jack, I’m glad now that you didn’t show up to rumble with JokesOn a few weeks ago. He’s the real deal.
By Mara
April 23, 2007 12:17 PM | Link to this
Renee - do we not automatically sympathize with the woman and snarl at the man, when we don’t have enough facts to really assertain either way
yes we do. I believe that this attitude is a holdover from the “women need to be protected…” mindset. My personal opinion is that in cases of sexual assault BOTH the accuser and the accused should be sheilded until the investigation is completed. It’s just too hotbutton and personal a topic to be argued in the media. Once the idictment, or exoneration, is handed down, then names can be named and details argued.
Isn’t that why we have a system in place? To prevent people from just letting their emotions rule the case and not evidence? Do you have an issue with that?
No I do not have an issue with it. I am a firm believer in habeus corpus and “innocent until proven guilty”. The country however, is moving away from that founding priciple. If we are going to discuss the merits of “the system”, there are, at this time, almost 400 prisoners in Gitmo that have never been charged, tried, or convicted of anything yet I hear them labled as “terrorists” and “bad guys” all the time. We don’t know how many more have been kidnapped and secreted away in CIA prisons or subjected to “extraordinary rendition”. We Americans have been encouraged to assume that “bad guys” are guilty and thus do not deserve the protection of the legal system. They have been adjudged guilty on less evidence than the wrongly-accused lacrosse team. So why would anyone be surprised when the system ceases to work for ordinary folks?
Hi Archie.
By RF
April 23, 2007 12:23 PM | Link to this
if accusations of a crime are deemed to be substantiated 90% of the time and a complete fabrication the other 10%, isn’t it just human nature to assume that the accusation is likely to be true?
Unfortunately, Mara, assumption is a dangerous thing and leads to all sorts of trouble. We can’t assume an accusation is true without evidence. That would turn our justice system back to Puritanical versions of “justice”. I’ve read about enough cases of wrongful accusation and imprisonment to make me think the accusations are true much less than 90% of the time.
Unfortunately, the reality is that many men are accused and convicted on circumstantial evidence only to be found innocent years later when the technology catches up. Sad indeed…
~~Hey Renee~~ How you been??
By chuck
April 23, 2007 12:27 PM | Link to this
Kimberly, If those were my daughters I would have to borrow Jack’s “rusty hacksaw”.
Hey Renee. How have you been?
As to the topic…What happened to the PRESUMPTION OF INNOCENCE? As for the Duke Case, while it may have been the Grand Jury that presented the indictment, EVERYBODY knows that any self-respecting DA can get an indictment from the Grand Jury any time he wants one. That is how the system works. The Duke Cases was clearly a case of a prosecutor running amok over the legal system he should have been protecting.
By Monica
April 23, 2007 12:29 PM | Link to this
Cops, teachers, and men accused of rape are usually guilty until proven innocent.
By Good Guy
April 23, 2007 12:31 PM | Link to this
My personal opinion is that in cases of sexual assault BOTH the accuser and the accused should be sheilded until the investigation is completed. It’s just too hotbutton and personal a topic to be argued in the media. Once the idictment, or exoneration, is handed down, then names can be named and details argued.
Doesn’t Britain have a policy under which the press is not allowed to publish the names of those accused of crimes until they are convicted?
Thanks for trying to be fair to both parties, Mara.
By Mara
April 23, 2007 12:31 PM | Link to this
ONCE AGAIN A CLEAR CASE OF ANOTHER SEX OFFENDER GETTING AWAY WITH IT. AGAIN ! FEMALES NOT BELIEVED
and obviously the jury was a bunch of misogynistic fools who hardened their hearts to the plight of these two innocent young girls. (/snark)
any chance you’d consider the idea that the guy just might actually be innocent of these particular crimes? Hmmmm?
By Good Guy
April 23, 2007 12:34 PM | Link to this
Great. Mr. Compassion himself, chuckie, is here. Hey chuck, go F yourself, will you? Still waiting for you to drop by sometime, you POS.
By Mara
April 23, 2007 12:41 PM | Link to this
chuck - What happened to the PRESUMPTION OF INNOCENCE
the Bush administration killed it, with extreme prejudice.
RF - I agree with the old adage about assuming anything. You know, A$$-u-me? :^) As a supporter of “The Innocence Project” (donate here - http://www.innocenceproject.org/donate/) I most certainly DO recognize that false accusations and erroneous convictions do happen. I’m just very grateful that in some cases, we are able to correct those mistakes. Often too late and way too few to be sure, but at least something is being done for some of them.
By MrRogers
April 23, 2007 12:43 PM | Link to this
There goes the neighborhood.
By JokesOn
April 23, 2007 12:49 PM | Link to this
Seems like that’s just one more form of patronizing, no?
Not really. It could be taken that way from the perspective of the one receiving the guidance, but in actuality it is just modeling behavior - which does not only apply to children.
I should use a more fitting term like emotionally/maturely retarded as compared to the persons age, but that is not taken well by most people so I use the term “child.”
I expect 20+ year olds to be able to think/act rationally, not to react (no thinking involved) emotionally. When they do not act maturely, it is obvious to me that I must be the adult in the situation. Now, with age, I just leave those situations asap.
By RF
April 23, 2007 12:54 PM | Link to this
Cops, teachers, and men accused of rape are usually guilty until proven innocent.
Monica’s got a point. The court of public opinion is swift, predjudiced, and lynch mob crazy.
Mara- I figured you weren’t inclined to assume, but I had to make sure.
Unfortunately, sexual assault can be difficult to prove it charges are ever filed at all. The whole Duke thing doesn’t help encourage true victims to come forth after all the frenzy created by one who apparently made it up. Speaking of sexual assault, what does everyone think of the manslaughter conviction in the case of the preacher’s wife in Tennessee?
By JokesOn
April 23, 2007 12:54 PM | Link to this
Seems that besides one person, all the women on the blog are exceptionally thoughtful today.
I stand corrected it thinking that most of the women on here were unable to have this debate.
Thank you for not proving me right and I apologize for predetermining you abilities.
By Good Guy
April 23, 2007 12:55 PM | Link to this
I expect 20+ year olds to be able to think/act rationally, not to react (no thinking involved) emotionally.
In my experience, everyone carries their “Child” with them into Adulthood, JokesOn. It’s the source of our emotions. And while the goal of acting rationally at all times is noble, it’s not the norm.
By Renee
April 23, 2007 1:05 PM | Link to this
OMG RF, how are you???? Long time no hear from, glad to see that you are doing fine.
Mara, I think when I wrote my point, I made it confusing. We absolutely do make assertions, when we shouldn’t. I think I made my point all wrong….sorry for that…
Personally, I don’t think we should assume anything until all the facts are out.
Hi Chuck.
By chuck
April 23, 2007 1:22 PM | Link to this
Actually dirtbag, I was by there the other day. You weren’t home. I parked in that parking lot behind your house. You really need to work on that yard.
By chuck
April 23, 2007 1:24 PM | Link to this
BTW, why do you keep referring to me as Point-of-Sale. What has retail strategy got to do with me?
By chuck
April 23, 2007 1:25 PM | Link to this
Hey RF. Through testing yet?
By chuck
April 23, 2007 1:27 PM | Link to this
Still digging out from your recent snowstorm Renee?
By Renee
April 23, 2007 1:40 PM | Link to this
Actually, Chuck, the snow is gone. We are at like 84 today, which is really funny since we had the Nor’easter weekend before last. But between that and the Valentines Day Blizzard, I don’t care if I ever see a flake of snow again!!
By MenNotPunished
April 23, 2007 1:42 PM | Link to this
any chance you’d consider the idea that the guy just might actually be innocent of these particular crimes? Hmmmm?
That guy? not a chance.
I too am very thankful DNA is available now. Not only does it free the innocent, but it can match up with the real rapist years later or locate him due to the DNA database.
What if a rapist uses a condom? That means zero DNA doesn’t it? Meaning a rapist COULD go free due to no DNA?
By chuck
April 23, 2007 1:51 PM | Link to this
84 is warmer than here. I thought about you during that storm. They were talking about how everybody was having to dig their cars out. I thought about how that would be a pain. A friend of mine introduced me to a friend of his who was travelling through back to Maine from Florida. They are retired and move down to Florida every winter to avoid that stuff.
By Idiot
April 23, 2007 1:52 PM | Link to this
Renee, you are an idiot. Rape is an act of violence not of sexual gratification. Rapist only do so to hurt, dominate and humiliate their victims. WHAT A WOMAN IS WEARING HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THE ACT OF RAPE
By Monica
April 23, 2007 1:53 PM | Link to this
MenNotPunished,
Don’t you watch CSI? There are lots of ways (and places) to get DNA from an assailant.
By Lyrazel
April 23, 2007 1:57 PM | Link to this
I guess if one is going to promote an upcoming book publication attaching it to a blog page would be a good PR stunt.
Shaunti: Just remember only 33% of all rapes are actually reported to police—so if your stats are true only 13% of all sexual assault cases ever go to trial on confirmed evidence the rest are either found to be liars or have unusable/exonorable evidence. Kind of spooky statistics in a country where over 400,000 sexual assaults happen yearly.
By Archie
April 23, 2007 1:59 PM | Link to this
yes we do. I believe that this attitude is a holdover from the “women need to be protected…” mindset. My personal opinion is that in cases of sexual assault BOTH the accuser and the accused should be sheilded until the investigation is completed.
Hello Mara. I was going to suggest that but you beat me to the punch. You have some good posts. Since I live in South Carolina I am surprised that dungeon-guy got off because none of the pretrial publicity was in his favor, so there must be some details that the public has not heard.
By You are an idiot
April 23, 2007 2:02 PM | Link to this
99% (FBI statistic) of rapes do not include the man ejaculating as men who have committed a rape do not ejaculate as sexual gratification is not the reason for the act of violence. HUMILATION HURT is the purpose.
And no, wearing white cotton undewear (granny panties) instead of Victoria Secret will not save us, ladies!
By MenNotPunished
April 23, 2007 2:08 PM | Link to this
The first clue is I can’t think of ANY 17 year old that would choose to have sex with that man. A convicted sex offender living in a trailer with a dungeon room out back. How old is he in his 80’s because he looks like it. Nasty looking.
There was an issue with something about the timeline & the time it took the teens to contact police. That’s right, kidnapped & raped children shouldn’t be tramatized that much & should have been able to contact the police in the “proper” timeframe.
By Mara
April 23, 2007 2:10 PM | Link to this
Renee - Personally, I don’t think we should assume anything until all the facts are out
agreed. And sorry ‘bout any confusion from the previous posts. It looks like this is one of the issues that we mostly agree on.
RF - * the manslaughter conviction in the case of the preacher’s wife in Tennessee?*
I don’t know if the woman intended to shoot her husband (the jury says not, hence the manslaughter conviction) but as my father used to say, “If you point a gun at something you better be sure its something you are prepared to shoot”. As serious as the topic is, I did find some comic relief when they entered the blond wig and platform heels in as evidence. LOL!!! I’m sorry, and it isn’t a fair comparison, but all I could think of was a joke about Jimmy Swaggart and Jim Bakker:
Jimmy Swaggart telephoned Jim Bakker:
Swaggart: “I have a theological question; can a prostitute be saved?
Bakker: “Yes.”
Swaggart: “Would you save me one for Saturday night?”
sorry…but that’s what I remember thinking. :^D
FYI - Did you know that spousal rape wasn’t addressed until the late 1970’s? Did you know that North Carolina kept the marriage exemption to rape until 1993!? The law stated that “a person may not be prosecuted under this article (the rape law) if the victim is the person’s legal spouse at the time of the commission of the alleged rape or sexual offense unless the parties are living separate and apart” and even today, in Tennesee “a person only commits rape or sexual battery of a spouse when the person is armed with a weapon or credible decoy, causes serious bodily injury to the victim, or when the spouses live separate apart and one of them has filed for a divorce or separation.”
By MenNotPunished
April 23, 2007 2:11 PM | Link to this
Don’t you watch CSI? There are lots of ways (and places) to get DNA from an assailant.
I do not watch any type of violent movies or TV for entertainment. I’m not sure that too much attention or detail is spent on sex crimes unless there is a murder also involved.
By Renee
April 23, 2007 2:12 PM | Link to this
Renee, you are an idiot. Rape is an act of violence not of sexual gratification. Rapist only do so to hurt, dominate and humiliate their victims. WHAT A WOMAN IS WEARING HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THE ACT OF RAPE
Fortunately, I am NOT an idiot. However, if anything I wrote, led you to believe that I am an idiot, then perhaps YOU are the actual idiot. No, what a woman wears does not cause herself to be raped, however, WHAT a woman wears can prevent certain situations from occuring. Am I saying dress in Muslim garb…NO, I am not. But women can educate themselves and be smart. Take self defense classes, wear clothes appropriate for the situation….
It’s funny how you can take and construe one statement I made to mean something in your convuluted little world.
By Yes you are an idiot
April 23, 2007 2:27 PM | Link to this
Renee not only are you an idiot you are revolting. I can not believe that there is anyone of the female gender who can state a woman asks to be raped. You are the lowest form of nasty there is. WOMEN DO NOT ASKED TO GET RAPED. WOMEN DO NOT GET RAPED BECAUSE OF THEIR CLOTHING, UNDER WEAR, HAIR COLOR, MAKE-UP, WEIGHT OR PHYSICAL BEAUTY.
You are an idiot for saying women ask and deserve to be raped because of thier clothing. Cruel and stupid — scary.
By Monica
April 23, 2007 2:27 PM | Link to this
Sorry, I intended to put a smiley face with the CSI comment :) So sorry!
MenNotPunished, I really don’t know any details in the dungeon case, but I do teach high school, and I can list a few 17 year old girls who would do anything if they thought they could get their hands on pot/meth/drug of choice.
By Yes you are an idiot
April 23, 2007 2:28 PM | Link to this
Utah State University Sexual Assault and Anti Violence Information
Myth: Rape victims provoke the attach by wearing provocative clothing
A Federal Commission on Crime of Violence Study found that only 4.4% of all reported rapes involved provocative behavior on the part of the victim. In murder cases 22% involved such behavior (as simple as a glance).
Most convicted rapists do not remember what their victims were wearing.
Victims range in age from days old to those in their nineties, hardly provocative dressers.
Utah State University http://www.usu.edu/saavi/pdf/myths_facts.pdf
By Yes you are an idiot
April 23, 2007 2:29 PM | Link to this
Myth: Victims provoke sexual assaults when they dress provocatively or act in a promiscuous manner.
Fact: Rape and sexual assault are crimes of violence and control that stem from a person’s determination to exercise power over another. Neither provocative dress nor promiscuous behavior are invitations for unwanted sexual activity. Forcing someone to engage in non-consensual sexual activity is sexual assault, regardless of the way that person dresses or acts.”
Sonoma State University: Women’s Resource Center http://www.sonoma.edu/campuslife/sv/myth.htm
By Yes you are an idiot
April 23, 2007 2:29 PM | Link to this
MYTH: Provocative dress can cause a rape.
FACT: Victims are chosen because of their vulnerability, not because they are sexually provocative.
Wichita State University http://webs.wichita.edu/?u=police&p=/sexual_assault/
By Renee
April 23, 2007 2:40 PM | Link to this
You are an idiot for saying women ask and deserve to be raped because of thier clothing. Cruel and stupid — scary.
You are an idiot for thinking I said that. Please, ask any of the intelligent people if that is in fact what they heard (read) me say. Go ahead….ask…
SMH..some things (people) never change. Always the victim…that role MUST get tiring.
By chuck
April 23, 2007 2:53 PM | Link to this
Renee, it’s just whiley. She is really irrational. I actually feel sorry for her. I’m sure that something really bad had to have happened to her for her to end up with such a severe hatred of men. She can’t seem to see any circumstance under which a man might not be fully responsible when something bad happens.
I do understand her point to a degree. Even if a woman walked across town naked, it wouldn’t give anyone the RIGHT to toch her or abuse her. On the other hand, the normal person would have to ask themselves what the purpose for such an action might be. Some of the students at my school dress like you wouldn’t believe. Almost every morning we have to stop some of them and make them call home to get appropriate clothing.
They are definitely not shy. They want the attention for sure, but I think that some of them are going to get more attention than they bargained for.
By Mara
April 23, 2007 2:54 PM | Link to this
too lazy to google it, but if I recall correctly, the defense contends that the girls boinked him to get access to his stash. Which they (allegedly) stole. Pounds of marijuana just for boinkin’ an old guy! THOUSANDS of dollars worth!
It is unfortunate that I can think of some young women who’d consider this an “opportunity”. And a couple not-so-young. But then, I do volunteer work for a post-incarceration literacy program, so maybe we run in different circles…
By Lyrazel
April 23, 2007 2:58 PM | Link to this
*Don’t you watch CSI? There are lots of ways (and places) to get DNA from an assailant.
I do not watch any type of violent movies or TV for entertainment. I’m not sure that too much attention or detail is spent on sex crimes unless there is a murder also involved*.
People must like to watch sex-crime TV. CSI, L.&O. Special Victims, etc. is lurid enough to qualify that we are making entertainment of victimization. Sure after they announce heinous crimes the audience still gets vivid details about the vulnerable (many times children) victim showing in shadow hallucinatory sequences much like a snuff film.
Ratings went up in TV news on reports about the Duke case that was being reported hourly without evidence by the same channels like the Kobe case where the victim was identified by the press. In the Duke case they went to great length NOT to report show the accuser and again TV news shows the victim of. In the big TV land there is no scruples—there is only guilty until dropped from viewing.
By Renee
April 23, 2007 2:58 PM | Link to this
Chuck, I understand that point. But if you scroll up, at NO point did I say a woman deserved to get raped based upon her clothing or lack thereof. That is a complete fabrication. I don’t mind people disagreeing with me, but at least get my words/point correct, when disagreeing with me.
By chuck
April 23, 2007 2:59 PM | Link to this
And no Renee, that’s not what I think you said when you talked about clothing. Not that they deserve it or want it to happen. More like they are too naive to think about what COULD happen whether it’s the right thing or not. But it does happen.
By Mara
April 23, 2007 3:06 PM | Link to this
chuck - On the other hand, the normal person would have to ask themselves what the purpose for such an action might be
Ah…”normal” people wouldn’t walk accross town naked. I see. Not even to make a point? For the sake of “art”? To protest the fur industry? Because they aren’t embarrassed by their bodies? On a bet?
What makes YOU the arbitor of “normal”, chuck? Egad!
By MenNotPunished
April 23, 2007 3:11 PM | Link to this
I don’t believe for one second that 17 year old children would have sex with a very old & ugly convicted sex offender. For no amount of drugs. What is more likely the case here? The obvious? or the lets blame the females because no matter what they all want it? What is the best excuse we can come up with to protect another sex offender? OK not ONE but TWO 17 year old girls trick an old innocent man into allowing them into his dungeon so when he isn’t looking they can steal his drugs ! While one is having sex with the poor old guy the other one is clearing him out ! What a plan it had to have happened that way because we all know how trampy girls are !
By Monica
April 23, 2007 3:15 PM | Link to this
But then, I do volunteer work for a post-incarceration literacy program, so maybe we run in different circles
That’s cool, Mara! I could consider my job the pre-incarceration literacy program! LOL Unfortunately, I could provide you with some names of your future clients.
By chuck
April 23, 2007 3:15 PM | Link to this
Let me see if I can make this a little less confusing.
Renee you are right. When girls dress provocatively, they may get attention that goes beyond what they wanted. It is not a common sense thing to do. They don’t deserve it or cause it, BUT the reaction they could get from that may be beyond what a decent male would do (for example, some one taking liberties by touching them or even going further to rape them). Face it there are a lot of men out there who are NOT decent.
Whiley, you are right in saying that what a girl/woman wears does not give someone the RIGHT to rape or assault them. You are wrong however, when you accuse Renee of having said that. To a degree I understand where you are coming from. I had a good friend who’s daughter was date-raped. She was given some kind of drug. She still doesn’t trust men to this day and it’s been nearly 7 years. I guess that’s something that is very difficult to get through for some people, especially if they are not emotionally strong to begin with. You really need to get some help.
By Archie
April 23, 2007 3:17 PM | Link to this
I will defend Renee by saying it is wrong to call her an idiot because she did not say women’s dress cause rape, she merely listed how to dress in certain situations. I could have done the same for men. That Hinson(dungeon) man looks crazy and it fits into what Renee said so people thought he must be guilty because he does not dress like anyone that would be involved in a consensual relationship, but if a jury looked at him and said not guilty those girls’ stories must have been really suspect.
By chuck
April 23, 2007 3:22 PM | Link to this
No Mara, what I said was that the normal (meaning average every day person in the street not as opposed to ABNORMAL) would have to WONDER what the PURPOSE would be. Didn’t say there WASN’T a purpose, just that one would have to WONDER what that purpose would be.
I bet your husband hates to argue with you. You always go off on a tangent and read into the argument things that were never said. It gets annoying, but that’s okay. I enjoy it anyway.
By idisagree
April 23, 2007 3:23 PM | Link to this
Thanks lyrazel for giving us some context for all the numbers being thrown around today. 400,000 sexual assaults every year in this country. Only 33% of all rapes ever reported to police. Only 13% of all sexual assault cases ever go to trial on confirmed evidence. 87% of the time the victims are found to be liars or there’s something wrong with the evidence. Kind of spooky statistics. Absolutely!
“Many of those 60,000 are good men who have been accused of sexual offenses that will now have to lose years of their lives in prison, and forever carry the stigma of being a sex offender, simply because some greedy, malicious wife/ ex-wife or step-daughter…” Do you have some proof on this? No? I didn’t think so Kristie.
By MenNotPunished
April 23, 2007 3:23 PM | Link to this
It is a waste of time to debate women’s choice of clothing & sexual assault. Nothing a woman can wear invites a man to rape. That is an old blame-game which has been used since the dawn of time to get away from the real issue-rapists don’t need a reason except opportunity & a female.
Jury’s certainly don’t help, worthless pieces of SH@#$
By Monica
April 23, 2007 3:28 PM | Link to this
MNP, The guy is 48 years old, hardly the criteria for very old (even to a 17 year old). By no means am I defending the man. I just wish you would look a bit more objectively at situations. I agree with Archie: if he was aquitted by a jury, then there is something about the case that we don’t know.
By Mara
April 23, 2007 3:33 PM | Link to this
jeez, MNP, get a grip! Just because you don’t believe that a pair of 17-year-old girls aren’t willing to do something gross for a few thousand dollars worth of drugs doesn’t mean that they didn’t. And yeah…sure…I’m “blaming the females” because I think that they’re “trampy”. Sheesh. Your hysterical accusations are beyond belief. Absolutely mouth-foaming, wild-eyed, certifiably bonkers.
This weeks forum is about knee-jerk judgements and I see that here is a prime illustration of the “Nancy Grace School of Legal Commentary”, or “Knee-jerk 101”, if you prefer. Here’s some person (whiley?) that just somehow intuits that the creepy old geezer is lying. I mean, you know that no 17-year-old girl would EVER have sex with an old man. Ick. You know that not even drugs could convince them to do such a thing. Since we all should KNOW these things, why even bother with a trial? We should just let the great Swami MenNotPunished sit in judgement on every guy ever accused of violating a female. Think of how much money the state would save!
By kimberly
April 23, 2007 3:35 PM | Link to this
Ted Bundy wore a cast on his arm and looked helpless, dropping his books and such, to lure nice young women into helping him. Then he cracked them over the head and did unspeakable things. So the lesson is, if you’re NICE, you’re asking for it. It happens that way too.
By MenNotPunished
April 23, 2007 3:43 PM | Link to this
My point was what is the most likely. I do not for one second believe what jury’s say is fact anymore. Particularly in rape cases. Seen too many guys getting away with it. When it’s a he said she said, they always go free.
Makes me sick.
I’ll have to read more on the details of this SC case. I have not heard about the drugs. What is the best way to get the real facts of the case instead of what is floating around?
By HoytAbbott552
April 23, 2007 3:53 PM | Link to this
Abanamat! In vina veritas! 119 Array
By MenNotPunished
April 23, 2007 3:54 PM | Link to this
And because convicted child rapists always tell the truth & can be trusted, he is just another victim of young loose girls.
By Renee
April 23, 2007 3:55 PM | Link to this
Here’s a novel thought. Could it be that he DIDN’T rape them and that they did give it up for the drugs. Why could that NOT be the reality. Do young girls not sleep with older guys for money, drugs, or ~gasp~, JUST BECAUSE. I mean if they would have found him guilty, then the jury should be praised, but because they found him not guilty, then off with their heads?
The prosecution has the burden of proof, which evidently they did not meet. And that may be because, HE DIDN’T DO IT.
By Mara
April 23, 2007 3:59 PM | Link to this
Monica - LOL @ pre-incarceration literacy!
chuck - my husband and I seldom argue. When we do it’s generally about something stupid like whether the guy from “The Riches” is the same guy who played Commander Riker on Voyager. Or whether one must wait until the onions are carmalized before adding the garlic to a French Onion soup base. Or whether we should gas up the car the night before we leave on a roadtrip, or in the morning when we take off. Stupid stuff. We argued about the important things before we got married. :^) We are pretty compatable in our social and political outlooks, but I admit, he does have a troubling fondness for bad-for-the-environment muscle cars though LOL!!!
anyhoo…quittin’ time so catch y’all tomorrow
By Monica
April 23, 2007 4:11 PM | Link to this
I do not for one second believe what jury’s say is fact anymore.
If juries were elected officials making the big bucks, I could go with that statement. But no two juries are alike. Each jury is composed of 12 average Joes and Janes who sometimes have to use their vacation days to perform their civic duty. Al Capone may have had the power to buy a jury; most people today don’t have the means or wherewithal to do so. If you’re angry about a guilty man going free, don’t blame the juries; blame the prosecutors, the ones who are elected officials making the big bucks (well, at least the head honcho, anyway).
Have you ever served on a jury? I have. Drug case. I personally felt that the guy was guilty, but only because that was my gut feeling. My legal duty was to determine if there was “reasonable doubt” of the guilt of the accused. There was, so we said he was not guilty. I tend to tell the truth, so when asked if I had any doubts about his guilt, I said yes. Perhaps that’s the case in many rape trials. Go after the district attorney’s offices, not the juries.
By Jack
April 23, 2007 4:16 PM | Link to this
“I do not for one second believe what jury’s say is fact anymore.”
The “OJ” jury comes to mind.
By blablabla
April 23, 2007 4:25 PM | Link to this
unfortunately some people will always believe a man is guilty of whatever he’s accused of, irrespective of whether a jury of peers finds him innocent. as certain bloggers have pointed out, these people are unreasonable, fanatical even, and cannot be reasoned with.
Just remember only 33% of all rapes are actually reported to police
i’m not arguing with this statistic, but how can one go about proving its veracity? certainly something less than 100% of rapes are reported, but how can one be sure that only a third are actually reported? that strikes me as an un-verifiable figure. thoughts?
By Renee
April 23, 2007 4:36 PM | Link to this
Hi bla!!! How’s baby and Mrs. bla?
I have to agree with you that it does seem to be a rather unverifiable figure, since they aren’t being reported, who knows actually how many are being reported.
By JokesOn
April 23, 2007 4:58 PM | Link to this
Whiley,
What is the best way to get the real facts of the case instead of what is floating around?
You are the idiot for not asking yourself that question BEFORE spouting off like you do. These are individuals we are dealing with, not clones or such.
By AnotherDayofMen
April 24, 2007 8:14 AM | Link to this
A man facing eviction from a luxury apartment complex shot and killed the manager and then himself after writing an e-mail to friends saying he had died, police said. At least two other people were injured.
The manager, identified by her employer as Laura Schoellmann, warned co-workers to get out, and police credited her with saving lives before she was killed.
By Lyrazel
April 24, 2007 8:23 AM | Link to this
Mara, I always add the garlic with the onion before caramelizing otherwise the onion gets scorched when browning garlic.
Renee, welcome back. Your point is one of the best about the current justice system but rape is one of the only crimes where the victims have to prove innocence.
blablabla: go to the US Justice system web pages for stats. Its where I got the 33% figure. Where Shaunti got her FBI figures remains a mystery especially considering how rare the FBI ever handles rape cases. Had she consulted local police statistics I am sure her figures would have changed.
Statistical Abstract of the United States from the US Census Bureau- click on section 5 (Law Enforcement)
http://www.census.gov/prod/www/statistical-abstract-04.html
Statistics from the FBI - uniform crime reporting
http://www.fbi.gov/ucr/ucr.htm
Statistics of how much health care for rape victims costs
http://www.ahrq.gov/research/victsexual/victsex3.htm
The Sourcebook of Criminal Justice Statistics
http://www.albany.edu/sourcebook/
Statistics on rape and domestic violence from the UK
http://www.homeoffice.gov.uk/rds/pdfs05/hors293.pdf
Statistics on intimate crime from the Bureau of Justice
http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/cvict_c.htm#relate
Find statistics on rape at the Bureau of Justice web site- Reporting to Police and Medical Attention
http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/abstract/rsarp00.htm
National Criminal Justice Reference Service statistics on rape and sexual assault
http://virlib.ncjrs.org/Statistics.asp#R
General Statistics - The gateway to statistics from over 100 US federal agencies.
http://www.fedstats.gov
Find statistics on various types of crime in the US
http://www.lib.umich.edu/govdocs/stsoc.html#crime
Statistics on crime internationally
http://www.lib.umich.edu/govdocs/stsoc.html#intlcrime
Statistics on domestic violence
http://www.lib.umich.edu/govdocs/stsoc.html#wabuse
Statute of limitations by state from RAINN
http://www.rainn.org/statutesoflimitationcrim.html
How many people were raped each year in the US?
http://www.disastercenter.com/crime/uscrime.htm
Sexual victimization of college women
http://www.cdc.gov/ncipc/factsheets/svfacts.htm
Search crime statistics by University
http://www.securityoncampus.org/crimestats/index.html
By Lyrazel
April 24, 2007 8:44 AM | Link to this
AnotherDayofMen, For every 1 sensational story are 12,321 who will never make the papers, who live calm, compassionate and productive lives and would never think of hitting a dog muchless another human. Your headlines makes me wonder maybe it has more to do with the medium of television because a crazy can always attract viewers and the crazies know it. Perhaps that is one reason we see more and more wild crimes now—a trend to outdo other sensational crimes—and go out guns blazing. Remember we are the nation that revels in the 15 minutes of fame and for some who are desperate this blaze of glory is enforced with our gotta-have-a-gun culture.
By AnotherDayofMen
April 24, 2007 9:01 AM | Link to this
A north Idaho man accused of ramming his truck into his estranged wife’s home Monday after unsuccessfully demanding that she bring him a cigarette has been arrested, police said.
By chuck
April 24, 2007 9:03 AM | Link to this
Here is a scary statistic:
In 2005 -
The location of about a quarter of incidents of violent crime was at or near the victim’s home. Among common locales for violent crimes were on streets other than those near the victim’s home (19%), at school (12%), or at a commercial establishment (8%).
By AnotherDayofWomen
April 24, 2007 9:25 AM | Link to this
I am sure we could also find regular stories to tell about the activities of psychotic women. Heck, the dang topic is one good example.
By Renee
April 24, 2007 9:29 AM | Link to this
Thanks Lyrazel. I know you and I have not always agreed, however, you do seem to always bring some pretty impressive points to the table.
AnotherDayofMen - I know you continually find these terrible stories of crimes against women perpetrated by men. I don’t think ANYBODY here disagrees that crimes either do not happen to women, or that men haven’t played a part of it. But your hatred of men is almost comical. I mean I am a lesbian and I don’t hate men a fraction of how you do. How are you able to function on an daily basis with these irrational thoughts and accusations. In your world, EVERY man has an agenda or is on the brink of a crimewave against unsuspecting women in cotton panties and muslim garb.
By Monica
April 24, 2007 9:41 AM | Link to this
Okay, Mara and/or Lyrazel,
Will you please share your french onion soup recipe? I confess that’s a dish I haven’t attempted; I only enjoy it when dining out.
By AnotherdayofMen
April 24, 2007 10:33 AM | Link to this
I don’t hate men at all. I DO hate the men who do these things.
I DISLIKE anyone who makes excuses or dismisses the fact that something needs to be done about how a LOT of men conduct themselves in this world.
By idisagree
April 24, 2007 10:58 AM | Link to this
Lesbians have no reason to hate men. Lesbians do not associate with men on an intimate level. I should say “try” to associate on an intimate level since most men don’t know how to deal with anyone on an intimate level. So only straight women have reason to hate men!
By Archie
April 24, 2007 11:07 AM | Link to this
I just read the account of Kenneth Hinson’s trial in the newspaper here in South Carolina and frankly, it just doesn’t sound like the man was guilty. One of the girls was a drug user and this guy somehow snatched one of the girls without any noise being made then came back and snatched the other girl without any noise being made. No bite marks but the girl said she bit her way thru the duct tape. My goodness, that alone is enough to establish doubt. I think they told a lie and just because the man looks crazy doesn’t mean he’s guilty of anything except being ugly. If he weren’t a convicted felon he could probably win a lawsuit against the girls in this case. The jury did a good job based on what I read.
By JokesOn
April 24, 2007 11:21 AM | Link to this
I DISLIKE anyone who makes excuses or dismisses the fact that something needs to be done about how a LOT of men conduct themselves in this world.
Then you must dislike yourself since YOU are the one that refuses to be ANY part of the equation of solving the issue. It is also you that refuses to look at the subject objectively, which is needed in order to fix any problem.
Your only point is to vilify men. You have suggested putting all boys in camps, castration and regularly compare ALL men to terrorist.
You dismiss any point that you do not like and does not fit in with your view of men being evil.
You have made all this clear many, many times.
By idisagree
April 24, 2007 11:45 AM | Link to this
JokesOn, Bimbo, she’s a mirror for you buddy. You’ve made it very clear how you really feel about women. You’ve used language that puts down women. You have made statements that vilify women. You are the male version of her!
By Renee
April 24, 2007 11:47 AM | Link to this
I’m just wondering who jokes on is. I have some ideas, but maybe you are not a regular who I know….
You are RIGHT ON THE MONEY with your 11:21a comment
By AnotherDayofMen
April 24, 2007 12:30 PM | Link to this
I’m not a bimbo or anything like JokesOn just because I have zero tolerance for violent men & sex offenders.
I’m not crazy because our world encourages violence in males.
I’m not a lesbian because I’m not afraid to show my hatred toward those who commit violence against women & children.
I’m not in need of therapy because I’m furious another rapist is let free onto society.
I’m not a man hater because I don’t believe men are held accountable for being sexually agressive. This includes flashers, peeping toms, those to hide cameras in women’s dressing rooms & bathrooms, etc. It’s not taken seriously.
The VA shooter was caught taking photos of girls legs in class & stalking. Not taken seriously.
Rape is always a crime that is rarely punished, but it is perpetrated every single day in every corner of this earth. Yet the debate is: “Is the public too quick to judge men and excuse women during sexual assault accusations?”
To which my answer is absolutely 100% not at all.
By Corazon649
April 24, 2007 12:37 PM | Link to this
Abanamat! In vina veritas! 119 Array
By Mara
April 24, 2007 12:39 PM | Link to this
Hi Lyrazel. I’m with you on carmalizing first. The honeybunny thinks that cooking the garlic at the same time releases more flavor.
Hey Monica. I LOVE French Onion soup and it’s so easy to make! With apologies to the forum, here’s my recipe -
6 onions - mix of Sweet Vidalia, Red Onions, and Whites. Chop ‘em into “onion rings” and seperate. Pre-heat your oven to 400.
in a good sized pot warm some olive oil and add onions, stir to coat evenly. (They WILL cook down…alot!) Medium to medium high heat, depending on how hot your stove gets. It should sizzle nicely but not spatter. (sprinkling in some sugar helps the carmalizing process). When the onions are nicely browned, add two or three minced garlic cloves, a bay leaf, some thyme and a little parsley. Reduce heat and simmer for approximately 45 minutes, until the onions are a nice reddish-brown. Add enough beef or chicken stock to cover the onions. Add one cup of white wine. Simmer some more. I usually let it go for an hour or so. Fish out the bay leaf and any thyme stems you see. Ladle soup into oven-safe soup bowls, top with a slice of french bread, toasted and buttered. Top that with cheese. (I like to use a combination of swiss and mozzerella, but using regular sliced American cheese is okay if that’s what ya got). Slide the bowls into the oven and bake for ten minutes. That’s it. You’re done, so bon appetit.
By Mara
April 24, 2007 12:44 PM | Link to this
Archie - they didn’t find any of his fingerprints on the duct tape either.
By AnotherDayofMen
April 24, 2007 12:49 PM | Link to this
Does anyone have an idea how much this guy is going to cost the taxpayers of Colorado?
DENVER — A radio personality could spend the next six years in prison after pleading guilty to felony charges of trying to lure a young girl over the Internet.
Scott Eller Cortelyou, 53, pleaded guilty Monday to felony charges of Internet luring and attempted Internet sexual exploitation of a child. Detectives learned that in August 2006 Cortelyou had engaged in sexually graphic online conversations in an Internet chat room with someone he believed to be a 12-year-old girl.
By JokesOn
April 24, 2007 12:56 PM | Link to this
idisagree,
I have a right to my opinion. I have shown that I am able to separate my opinion from factual based debating when discussing a function to apply to all people.
I have also shown that I am able to apologize for my wrongs and correct them.
So, your basis that I am her mirror and further assessment of me is incorrect.
Are you able to look passed differences we have in order to resolve other issues? Or do you totally dismiss those that differ from your opinion? (like how chuck is totally dismissed, even when he has a point that makes sense bc you do not agree with prev posts)
By Mara
April 24, 2007 1:10 PM | Link to this
Does anyone have an idea how much this guy is going to cost the taxpayers of Colorado?
er…about $77 per day.
By AttemptTOchange?
April 24, 2007 1:11 PM | Link to this
PHILADELPHIA - A bloody, bullet-filled weekend left 11 people dead across the city, where drugs and disrespect have trumped brotherly love and the murder rate is on pace to be the highest in a decade.
Philadelphia has seen more than one killing a day this year, totaling 127 as of Monday afternoon.
Most of Philadelphia’s killings are by gunfire, most involve young men and most are the result of arguments, often over drugs but sometimes over trivial insults or perceived slights.
Last month, city officials announced plans to assign 80 additional police officers to a particularly violent neighborhood in southwest Philadelphia, where nevertheless 28-year-old Jovonne Stelly died March 25 trying to get her children out of the crossfire, authorities said.
At her funeral State Sen. Anthony Hardy Williams, then asked the men present to stand. Invoking the names of Stelly’s four motherless children, ranging from 6 months to 9 years old, Williams had the men repeat a promise to “protect the women and the children of our city.”
“I will be an example that these babies can look up to,” the men vowed. “I will no longer be a predator in my own back yard.”
By Monica
April 24, 2007 1:12 PM | Link to this
Thanks, Mara! Thanks, bloggers, as well. I need to create a generic email account for purposes such as these, but I can’t from work because they are all blocked by our filter.
By Jack
April 24, 2007 1:22 PM | Link to this
Jack & Mara’s Special Stew:
1 freshly regurgitated squirrel from large dog 1 large onion 1/2 cup of celery 1 1/2 cups carrots 4 potatoes cut into chunks 1 dash or worstershire sauce
Saute’ onions and squirrel until onions are clear. Combine all ingredients in dutch oven and simmer until the squirrel falls apart.
Enjoy.
By warningsFORwomen
April 24, 2007 1:29 PM | Link to this
Are there any internet warnings forwarded to men on how NOT TO be a rapist?
A group of rapists and date rapists in prison were interviewed on what they look for in a potential victim and here are some interesting facts:
The first thing men look for in a potential victim is hairstyle. They are most likely to go after a woman with a ponytail, bun, braid or other hairstyle that can easily be grabbed. They are also likely to go after a woman with long hair. Women with short hair are not common targets.
The second thing men look for is clothing. They will look for a woman who’sclothing is easy to remove quickly. Many of them carry scissors around specifically to cut clothing.
They also look for women on their cell phone, searching through their purse or doing other activities while walking because they are off guard and can be easily overpowered.
Men are most likely to attack & rape in the early morning, between 5:00a.m. and 8:30a.m.
The number one place women are abducted from/attacked is grocery store parking lots. Number two is office parking lots/garages.
Number three is public restrooms.
The thing about these men is that they are looking to grab a woman and quickly move her to another location where they don’t have to worry about getting caught.
Only 2% said they carried weapons because rape carries a 3-5 year sentence but rape with a weapon is 15-20 years.
If you put up any kind of a fight at all, they get discouraged because it only takes a minute or two for them to realize that going after you isn’t worth it because it will be time-consuming.
These men said they would not pick on women who have umbrellas, or other similar objects that can be used from a distance, in their hands. Keys are not a deterrent because you have to get really close to the attacker to use them as a weapon. So, the idea is to convince these guys you’re not worth it.
Several defense mechanisms he taught us are: If someone is following behind you on a street or in a garage or with you in an elevator or stairwell, look them in the face and ask them a question, like what time is it, or make general small talk: “I can’t believe it is so cold out here”, “we’re in for a bad winter.” Now you’ve seen their face and could identify them in a line-up; you lose appeal as a target.
If someone is coming toward you, hold out your hands in front of you and yell STOP or STAY BACK! Most of the rapists this man talked to said they’d leave a woman alone if she yelled or showed that she would not be afraid to fight back. Again, they are looking for an EASY target.
If you carry pepper spray (this instructor was a huge advocate of it and carries it with him wherever he goes,) yell I HAVE PEPPER SPRAY and holding it out will be a deterrent.
If someone grabs you, you can’t beat them with strength but you can by outsmarting them. If you are grabbed around the waist from behind, pinch the attacker either under the arm (between the elbow and armpit) OR in the upper inner thigh VERY, VERY HARD. One woman in a class this guy taught told him she used the underarm pinch on a guy who was trying to date rape her and was so upset she broke through the skin and tore out muscle strands - the guy needed stitches. Try pinching yourself in those places as hard as you can stand it; it hurts.
After the initial hit, always GO for the GROIN. I know from a particularly unfortunate experience that if you slap a guy’s parts it is extremely painful. You might think that you’ll anger the guy and make him want to hurt you more, but the thing these rapists told our instructor is that they want a woman who will not cause a lot of trouble. Start causing trouble and he’s out of there.
When the guy puts his hands up to you, grab his first two fingers and bend them back as far as possible with as much pressure pushing down on them as possible! The instructor did it to me without using much pressure, and I ended up on my knees and both knuckles cracked audibly.
Of course the things we always hear still apply. Always be aware of your surroundings, take someone with you if you can and if you see any odd behavior, don’t dismiss it, and go with your instincts!!! You may feel a little silly at the time, but you’d feel much worse if the guy really was trouble.
Tip from Tae Kwon Do: The elbow is the strongest point on your body. If you are close enough to use it, do!
Learned this from a tourist guide in New Orleans. If a robber asks for your wallet and/or purse, DO NOT HAND IT TO HIM.
Toss it away from you…. chances are that he is more interested in
your wallet and/or purse than you, and he will go for the wallet/purse. RUN LIKE MAD IN THE OTHER DIRECTION!If you are ever thrown into the trunk of a car, kick out the back taillights and stick your arm out the hole and start waving like crazy. The driver won’t see you, but everybody else will. This has saved lives. (I
met a lady in Daytona who this actually happened to. She did break out the tail lights & waved her hand out the hole. She said that it took a few very scary miles, but someone saw her & called the police. She said it was very scary but at least she was brave enough save her own life. So pay attention to this whole e-mail and DEFINITELY pass it on, Donna)Women have a tendency to get into their cars after shopping, eating, working, etc., and just sit (doing their checkbook, or making a list, etc. DON’T DO THIS!) The predator will be watching you, and this is the perfect opportunity for him to get in on the passenger side, put a gun to your head, and tell you where to go. AS SOON AS YOU GET INTO YOUR CAR, LOCK THE DOORS AND LEAVE.
If someone is in the car with a gun to your head DO NOT DRIVE OFF, repeat: DO NOT DRIVE OFF! Instead gun the engine and speed into anything, wrecking the car. Your Air Bag will save you. If the person is in the back seat they will get the worst of it. As soon as the car crashes bail out and run. It is better than having them find your body in a remote location.
A few notes about getting into your car in a parking lot, or parking garage:
IT IS ALWAYS BETTER TO BE SAFE THAN SORRY.
(And better paranoid than dead.) - ALWAYS take the elevator instead of the stairs. (Stairwells are horrible places to be alone and the perfect crime spot. This is especially true at NIGHT!)
If the predator has a gun and you are not under his control, ALWAYS RUN! The predator will only hit you (a running target) 4 in 100 times; and even then, it most likely WILL NOT be a vital organ. RUN, preferably in a zig -zag pattern!
As women, we are always trying to be sympathetic: STOP. It may get you raped, or killed. Ted Bundy, the serial killer, was a good-looking, well-educated man, who ALWAYS played on the sympathies of unsuspecting women. He walked with a cane, or a limp, and often asked “for help” into his vehicle or with his vehicle, which is when he abducted his next victim.
I’d like you to forward this to all the women you know. It may save a life. A candle is not dimmed by lighting another candle. I was going to send this to the ladies only, but guys, if you love your mothers, wives, sisters, daughters, etc., you may want to pass it onto them, as well.
By Mara
April 24, 2007 1:40 PM | Link to this
JACK!!!! M-m-mmmmmmmmmmm…stew…(slurp)
By Mara
April 24, 2007 1:46 PM | Link to this
Williams had the men repeat a promise to “protect the women and the children of our city.
so once again paternalism rears its ugly head. Basically he’s saying “kill all the other guys you want but let’s protect the poor fragile females and the sacred fruits of their loins” Why would he think it more important to “protect the women and children” of Philly than it is to get a handle on ALL murders? Rediculous of Williams to single out women and children when, overwhelmingly, most murder victims are young men! Stop the murdering of young men and you’ll stop the majority of MURDERS and make the city safer for everybody! Jeez, where’d this neanderthal come from?
will we never be accorded the respect of equals?!!
By Monica
April 24, 2007 1:54 PM | Link to this
will we never be accorded the respect of equals?!!
I saw on GMA this morning that women still make as much as 1/3 less than their male counterparts - in the same job position.
By Renee
April 24, 2007 2:00 PM | Link to this
I read that too, Monica. About the salary I mean.
Mara, Mara - excellent point….excellent point…BUT, you know you are about to be accused of supporting murder on females…you do KNOW that right??
By Mara
April 24, 2007 2:06 PM | Link to this
Monica - did you see that story about how the “wage gap” begins to manifest as early as one single year after graduation?
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601103&sid=azcypNg00in0&refer=us
“One year after graduation, women made more than men in just one field, engineering, and made at least 90 percent as much in four others, according to a breakdown of findings by 10 professions. Pay in the five remaining disciplines ranged from 75 percent to 88 percent of men’s salaries.”
“A decade after earning degrees, female engineering majors made 93 percent as much as men and in no profession did college- educated women’s salaries surpass men’s, according to the study.”
sigh
By Mara
April 24, 2007 2:26 PM | Link to this
Renee - you are about to be accused of supporting murder on females
LOL! Yeah, probably.
By idisagree
April 24, 2007 2:30 PM | Link to this
At Emory University today women are wearing red ribbons to note the wage gap between women and men.
By Monica
April 24, 2007 2:30 PM | Link to this
Another plus for teaching - a contract based on years of experience, regardless of gender.
By Lyrazel
April 24, 2007 2:39 PM | Link to this
Recipe? Gosh I have to admit I am not a cook and that I tend to marry men who are more at home in the kitchen than I am. I am inept at chores beyond massacring the shrubbery with clippers and taking the garbage to the street. I can operate the drill and have installed hot water heater and furnace thermocouplers—but my husband could use my biscuits for a hockey game. I bring home bacon but my hubby knows how to cook it—sorry.
Renee: one of my joys of participating here is that we don’t agree. I like hearing people’s opinions and value them as much as I value my own opinion, which as you know is quite a lot. ;-)
Jack—my kats like sushi chipmunk heads. I have been perplexed as to what to do with their leftover delicacies left on the porch beyond converting them to lawn art or making Tupperware surprises for my occasional guests to enjoy as late night snacks. I will pass along the recipe to D. Thanks!
I saw on GMA this morning that women still make as much as 1/3 less than their male counterparts - in the same job position. Monica, why does that surprise you? See the LOGIC behind that is men need to make more $$$ so their wives can stay home with the children.
By idisagree
April 24, 2007 2:57 PM | Link to this
Oh, come on. Male-identified women and men will always be too quick to judge women and excuse men during sexual assault accusations! Women who are woman-identified will always be too quick to judge men and excuse women during sexual assault accusations! Does it even out in the long run? Probably not because there are many more male-identified women than woman identified women. This shows clearly in the posts on this blog!
By NetBanker
April 24, 2007 3:04 PM | Link to this
I saw on GMA this morning that women still make as much as 1/3 less than their male counterparts - in the same job position.
And there was story in the AJC about this too, but it provides some interesting thoughts on why. The link is below as is an excerpt I thought appropriate.
http://www.ajc.com/metro/content/printedition/2007/04/24/bizpaygap0424a.html
“When you just stop at ‘the pay gap equals discrimination,’ you lose the knowledge of understanding how to earn more money.”
Farrell said the pay gap can no longer be attributed to discrimination against women, something he once believed was behind the problem. Socialization also plays a role.
In his book, he identifies 25 choices men and women make that put them on divergent career paths. Among them: Women tend to make career choices based on what’s good for them and their lives, an idea Farrell said more men should follow. Men tend to make choices based on what’s good for producing income.
“The bigger issue is understanding the road to high pay is a toll road,” said Farrell, the only man to ever be elected to the National Organization for Women’s board of directors three times. “People who get higher-pay work more hours and tend to work in more technical-oriented jobs than jobs that focus on people satisfaction.”
More pay in science
The AAUW study backs up Farrell’s assertion.
Individual choices explained part of the reason for the pay gap.
~waving and big hug~ Hey Renee and RF! Shoot! I can’t believe that I missed both of you being here yesterday…the “Bambi’s” Hope all is well with everyone and that Spring is finally here. Now just watch out for the bugs…I managed to get bit on my arm by something fierce that has left me red, swollen, itchy, and with some nasty looking sores. But the garden is really going to kick a$$ this year!!
By Mara
April 24, 2007 3:15 PM | Link to this
there are many more male-identified women than woman identified women. This shows clearly in the posts on this blog!
yeah. It has nothing to do with calm, reasoned, fairness. Those of us who want to see evidence before jumping to judgment are obviously weak-minded females brainwashed by the he-men around us to ignore their brutish behavior and indulgently excuse their violence as boys being boys.
I do believe that I’ve been insulted!! ROTFLMAO!!
By Archie
April 24, 2007 3:19 PM | Link to this
What Mara says about paternalism makes sense as it goes on all the time with the way people say things. I hated the tv stories about missing women because of that paternalism and subtle racism. I am happy to see women criticize each other now in different ways, such as manner of dress the way Renee did yesterday and women of color are speaking up more forcefully against bad lyrics from both male and female rappers. I am glad to see women doing more than bash men and really go after men and women that keep them from being equal.
By Mara
April 24, 2007 3:21 PM | Link to this
Here’s an odd news peice - http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/18289647/wid/11915829?GT1=9246
“Kryptonite, which robbed Superman of his powers, is no longer the stuff of comic books and films. A mineral found by geologists in Serbia shares virtually the same chemical composition as the fictional kryptonite from outer space.
Chris Stanley, a mineralogist at London’s Natural History Museum, revealed the identity of the mysterious new mineral, discovered the match after searching the Internet for its chemical formula — sodium lithium boron silicate hydroxide. The substance has been confirmed as a new mineral after tests by scientists at the Natural History Museum in London and the National Research Council in Canada.”
By NetBanker
April 24, 2007 3:45 PM | Link to this
A mineral found by geologists in Serbia shares virtually the same chemical composition as the fictional kryptonite from outer space. Uhhhhhh….if krypotnite is fictional then how can it have a chemical composition to compare other minerals against?
By NetBanker
April 24, 2007 3:47 PM | Link to this
Maybe the Serbs haven’t realized that Superman and kryptonite are comics/cartoons? Next thing you know they’ll be launching a new space craft based on the specifications from the flying saucer on ‘My Favorite Martian’
By Renee
April 24, 2007 3:50 PM | Link to this
I read that article Mara….odd to say the least.
Big hug for you NET!!! Hope all is going well for you! I’ve bee off of here going through some personal issues…whew…but they appear to be coming to a halt, so I’m back!!! Bring the topics on!!
By Mara
April 24, 2007 4:03 PM | Link to this
Net - if krypotnite is fictional then how can it have a chemical composition to compare other minerals against? LOL!!! Good question. Lets go to the google…
“I was amazed to discover that same scientific name written on a case of rock containing kryptonite stolen by Lex Luther from a museum in the film ‘Superman Returns,”
Kryptonite - from Answers.com
In Superman Returns, an additional piece of kryptonite is found in a rock fragment, once more in Addis Ababa. Lex Luthor steals it from a Metropolis museum and uses it in his quest to create a new kryptonite landmass. During the extraction process, the rock appears to hold a significant amount of green kryptonite. The scientific name for the rock was displayed on its case, ‘Sodium lithium boron silicate hydroxide with fluorine’. As borosilicate glass is commonly crystalline and green-tinted, this could be a plausible human mis-identification of kryptonite; alternately, as no ‘unknown’ component is listed, one might assume this (sodium/lithium/borosilicate/fluorine) blend to be the actual composition of green kryptonite. Though more likely, the researchers who preformed the analysis of the fragment did not preform a core sample test. They may have only chipped off the outer layer in order to test it.
HAHAHAHA!! Okay. Quittin time.
By NetBanker
April 24, 2007 4:18 PM | Link to this
Hey Renee! I’m sorry to hear that you’ve been going through some personal stuff. I suppose that helps us identify the good times vs the difficult ones. Good to know you’re back!
How are things with JBM? She sort of dropped out of site for a while due to some life situations too.
By Catherine D
April 24, 2007 4:19 PM | Link to this
I think the former Duke lacrosse students are guilty. They have not been proven innocent. There just wasn’t enough evidence. I didn’t read anything that proved the accuser a liar. Frankly I believe the DNA results were not the whole truth. I don’t think there will be any further lawsuits from them because they don’t want to get on the stand.
By Renee
April 24, 2007 4:35 PM | Link to this
Yeah, Net, the difficult times definitely make us appreciate the GOOD times. Thank you so much for your kind words.
JBM is doing better. I kind of cut off contact with the world for a while, but her and I are jumping back into the swing of things, and I will tell her she is sorely missed here on the blog (I’m sure mostly by chuck LOL)…
I have missed my blog buddies…but I’M BACK!!!!!
By NetBanker
April 24, 2007 4:37 PM | Link to this
“I was amazed to discover that same scientific name written on a case of rock containing kryptonite stolen by Lex Luther from a museum in the film ‘Superman Returns,” Well go, Mara, the research queen. That the man actually remembered the name on the display case of a fiction mineral that is in a movie is frightening enough for me.
By chuck
April 25, 2007 8:04 AM | Link to this
Hey Renee, you may not believe it but I love talking to JBM. I think she’s great. She’s passionate and honest. You can’t get much better than that when debating issues. Tell her hello for me and I hope that she is doing well.
By Renee
April 25, 2007 9:03 AM | Link to this
I absolutely will chuck!
By Green
April 25, 2007 10:11 AM | Link to this
Hi Sam! Photos i send on e-mail. Green
By Renee
April 25, 2007 10:22 AM | Link to this
okay the spam is OFFICIALLY out of control!
By Justin Kawabori
April 25, 2007 10:31 AM | Link to this
Dear Ms. Feldhahn and Ms. Glass,
Just read your woman to woman column, “Are views on sexual assault shaped by gender?”
Here is a simple observation for you both to ponder. The issue you are discussing goes much deeper than the consequences of women lying about purported rape or an old school “boys being boys” male dominance of demeaning women continuing to linger in our society. Those are both valid issues, both are wrong for our culture, and each of you could write a more detailed and profound article on why your point is correct.
The real issue is about respect for one another, and the fact that respect toward our fellow human beings has been greatly diminished since we, as a society, have taken the 10-commandments off the walls of our schools and other public buildings. While that statement may seem over simplistic, and perhaps a veneer to debate religion in the public square, it’s not. Think about what the 10-commandments stand for. The first four are reverence to God (or if you don’t believe, something greater than yourself). The second set of six are about respecting your fellow human beings. Taking that away (and the teaching of it) under the veil of separation of church and state has been a mistake, and we are paying the consequences in society today.
Go beyond Duke for a moment and take the U.W. shooting and the Virginia Tech massacres as recent examples. Is it coincidence that these tragedies all occurred on educational campuses? And can we argue that at the very core of these tragedies lies a fundamental lack of respect for oneself and for others?
Love God (demonstrate reverence), love your neighbor (as yourself). Seems simple to me, but the application and results are profound.
Sincerely,
Justin Kawabori Redmond
By lozen
April 25, 2007 11:09 AM | Link to this
Justin, surely you don’t believe women were not raped, beaten and treated disrespectfully back in the “good old days” when the ten commandments were on the walls of our schools and jewish kids and agnostic kids were coerced into praying to Jesus every morning? Your religion does not teach respect for women and never has! It actually teaches the opposite by blaming women for the fall from grace/eden. The ten commandments does not say a word against rape or abuse of women and there are many stories in the bible that approve of treating women with great disrespect. You believe “at the very core of these tragedies lies a fundamental lack of respect for oneself and for others.” Could you be wrong? Perhaps the core of these tragedies is mental illness?
By Thoughts
April 25, 2007 11:26 AM | Link to this
Early on, right after the VT massacre, news sites reported that Cho’s Mom was extremely religious and was especially pushy with her son over religion(now that’s certainly respectful of others, isn’t it?). That got dropped and now the only discussion is that he was from a good Christian family. One has to wonder how much of her pushiness and contempt for him was a cause for his, as Lozen puts it, Mental-Illness. He was probably Born evil and we can all feel for his family. But one does have to wonder there.
By Monica
April 25, 2007 12:09 PM | Link to this
Hi Jack! I have heard of this ringtone site called “Mosquito Ringtones,” but I’d stay away from that one if I were you. You know…West Nile Virus. :)
By chuck
April 25, 2007 12:11 PM | Link to this
Good one Jack. I think we could all point out some links for you. Irritating isn’t it?
By Renee
April 25, 2007 12:26 PM | Link to this
Jack too funny…I actually laughed out loud at that one…
By Atlanta Hawks #1 Fan
April 25, 2007 1:05 PM | Link to this
Let’s blame the media for the frenzy surrounding this case. As always the media convicts someone before the trial actually begins. Whatever happened to innocent until proven guilty. I guess that does not happen in high profile cases anymore. I think the the boys should sue the local government for bringing forth this case without proper evidence and then sue the media outlets for defamation and libel.
Rich Guys Trophy Wife Hot Girls Speed Dating http://www.richguystrophywife.com/
101 Dating Ideas for Atlanta Singles http://books.lulu.com/content/59240
By Just Being Me
April 25, 2007 2:07 PM | Link to this
Hola folks!!! ~waving at Archie, Mara, Monica, Chuck, NetB, Bla, Jack… all y’all regulars!~ And oh my goodness, did I miss RF???? Noooooooo!!!!!!!!!!!!! I hope he comes back in… I’d sure love to get a hello and cyberhug.
I would drop in more often now that my life has calmed down a bit - God knows I miss you guys - but I just really can’t take the spam… and I’m not sure I understand why this blog is the only one on AJCs site that is so badly infested.
Anyway, I see our nutty friend Whiley is still on the loose. *SMH* Darned shame.
Okay, well I’m off… y’all enjoy the rest of your ringtones… I mean, day.
By CobbCoian
April 25, 2007 2:12 PM | Link to this
Yes, the female that made false charges should be charged. Yes, the Duke players should sue for libel. I am not talking about cases where the male is proven innocent, I am talking about cases that are completely made up. A person knows when they are making something up, they know it is not true, so waste the time of law enforcement and to potentially ruin the lives of the accused is unacceptable. Especially because I believe that this type of media frenzy about rape only encourages actual rape victims to not report the crime. It also takes law enforcement officals away from catching real rapists. It has nothing to do with gender, if you lie to the police about a crime, then you have just commited a crime and it should be treated as such. And yes, I am a woman, in case you were wondering.
By Renee
April 25, 2007 2:38 PM | Link to this
ummm…. JBM….no Hello???
By Just Being Me
April 25, 2007 4:03 PM | Link to this
Girl, I’ve been talking to you all doggone day… lol.
Okay, HELLOOOOOO RENEE!!!!!!! So good to see you… again… as usual… lol.
By AnotherDayofMen
April 26, 2007 8:34 AM | Link to this
MANITOWOC, Wis. (AP) - Brendan Dassey could have saved the 25-year-old photographer who showed up at his uncle’s junkyard for an assignment, prosecutors said. Instead, the teenager joined in raping and killing her on Halloween, and then burning her body in a barrel. Dassey accepted his uncle’s invitation to rape Halbach because he wanted to know what sex was like. Dassey helped kill her and burn her body to dispose of the evidence of the crimes, the prosecutor said.
Halbach disappeared after going to the Avery family’s auto salvage yard to photograph a minivan Avery’s sister was selling through Auto Trader Magazine. Her cousins later found her vehicle in the lot, partially concealed by branches, wood and car parts.
Are we too quick to judge men and excuse women during sexual assault accusations? Not at all, & I’m sure there are plenty of people who still blame the victim even in this case, or that it was consentual sex.
By Renee
April 26, 2007 8:44 AM | Link to this
Lord, and the madness starts for the day!!!!!!!!
By AnotherDayofWomen
April 26, 2007 9:14 AM | Link to this
Is this the uncle who was cleared of a previous rape, after spending 18 years in prison, and the cops who had framed him then had a personal agenda against the uncle, and perhaps coerced the nephew to “confess”? The admissibility of the kid’s “confession” being a big issue at trial. And both so stupid they left the woman’s car on their own property, when she had been on site there at least 15 times before, as a photographer? Sounds like an out-of-control law enforcement issue, actually.
Yes, both were convicted. And O.J. was acquitted.
Sidebar:Grand juries are prosecutorial rubber stamps, so an indictment from them means nothing.
By AnotherDayofWomen
April 26, 2007 9:21 AM | Link to this
All of the evidence against those two, uncle and nephew, could have easily been planted. The uncle had a huge lawsuit against the county for the earlier wrongful conviction. hmmmmmm.
By AnotherDayofMen
April 26, 2007 9:55 AM | Link to this
ABBEVILLE, S.C. - An Abbeville man pleaded guilty Tuesday to raping and impregnating a girl when she was 9 years old. In January 2006, William Edward Ronca, who was 26 at the time, pleaded guilty to criminal sexual conduct with a minor. He also admitted that rapes had been going on once or twice a week for about two years.
Ronca was arrested after the girl was found to be seven to eight months pregnant. A school guidance counselor told the girl’s mother that the child was acting withdrawn and was not participating at school. The girl was taken to Abbeville County Memorial Hospital, where the pregnancy was confirmed.
Instead of enjoying her childhood, the 10-year-old had to undergo a Caesarean section delivery. She will never be a child again with a permanent reminder of stretch marks, scars from the surgery, & a baby the family put up for adoption.
By AnotherDayofMen
April 26, 2007 9:57 AM | Link to this
A man was killed and a woman was wounded in an apparent attempted murder-suicide at a Pickens County apartment complex late Tuesday night. Deputies said that the man shot the woman two times and then shot himself in the head. Investigators said that there were two small children sleeping inside the apartment. They were sent to stay with relatives.
By AnotherDayOfWomen
April 26, 2007 10:31 AM | Link to this
There, that’s better.
By larry
April 26, 2007 10:33 AM | Link to this
AnotherDayofMen, keep up the good work. People just don’t want to hear this and they will try to shoot the messenger. We’d much rather keep our head in the sand than admit we have a big problem with male violence. Therefore nothing is done and it goes on and on. I’m a Quaker and I can’t tell you how many times in my life I’ve been called a coward or a sissy because I walked away from male violence and I’m a male. Young boys need to be taught to settle conflict in a healthy way but we’re not taught that so we revert to primitive, uncontrolled violence. I think boys are not taught to exprss our feelings in a healthy way because we may be needed for war and all that anger and violence may be needed in some place like Iraq. Nothing can be done to fix it as long as we’re living in denial!
By Archie
April 26, 2007 10:41 AM | Link to this
Since the topic is about being too quick too judge men and excuse women during sexual assault, please read the story about Darryl Hunt who served 19 years for a rape and murder he did not commit. The state of North Carolina gave Hunt almost 2 million dollars. Of course Hunt is black but one thing Hunt has in common with the Duke players, a rogue prosecutor looking for a quick conviction in a case with a racial angle(victim was white). Hunt was offered 12,000 dollars to lie on another man and threatened with the death penalty. That prosecutor still practices law. Hunt’s case will be on a documentary tonight on HBO. I will miss this documentary but it is why I get so angry whenever I hear someone bring up the OJ case as if it’s the,the example of injustice. At least the Duke guys got off and yes we do rush to judgement.
By lozen
April 26, 2007 12:34 PM | Link to this
Margaret Cho speaking about the Virginia Tech tragedy: Here is where I can really envy white people because when white people do something that is inexplicably awful, so brutally and horribly wrong, nobody says – “do you think it is because he is white?” There are no headlines calling him the “White shooter.” There is no mention of race because there is no thought in anyone’s mind that his race had anything to do with his crime.
By Renee
April 26, 2007 12:41 PM | Link to this
uhhhh….Larry, NOBODY here is FOR violence, be it male or female, dog violence or whatever. It’s this manic, over the top attitude that ALL women are victims, all MEN are criminals, looking for coochie, with violent tendencies. It’s the attitude that women are helpless and UNABLE to protect themselves or do anything about the situation. It’s the attitude that women NEVER make up crimes, NEVER do anything to perpetuate the crime, just completely absolve themselves from anything. Are there senseless crimes against women, ABSOLUTELY. There are senseless crimes against MEN, against CHILDREN, ANIMALS, etc. Senseless crimes exist.
Snapped comes on Oxygen channel all the time. Showing guilty (sometimes innocent) women who brutally murder their husbands in cold blood for NO reason, because they wanted money or what the heck ever. They weren’t abused, or anything. I mean in all fairness a portion were, but NOT all or most.
By AnotherDayofWomen
April 26, 2007 12:56 PM | Link to this
What about that woman in New Jersey who was convicted this week of chopping her husband up, putting the pieces in suitcases, and the suitcases ending up in the Chesapeake Bay?
Where’s her story?
By Samantha
April 26, 2007 1:04 PM | Link to this
I’m not quite understanding what all this is supposed to be about?
Must be me or something…
By chuck
April 26, 2007 2:14 PM | Link to this
Hey Samantha, it probably is you.
Good old EOCT and/or GHSGT LMNOP QRST or whatever acronym they are using this week. Thank God we are finished with that RF. I’m pretty sure mine did okay, but you can never tell. They are so tired of testing by this time of the year. In 8th grade we have 23 days of standardized tests in our District. Good luck next week.
Lozen, I don’t think race had much to do with that rampage at least beyond the language difficulties they said caused him to be teased at a younger age. I think this is somewhat an indictment of all of us to some extent at least in the serious lack of courtesy and respect in our culture today. This young man was totally responsible for his actions. Nobody MADE him do what he did, but I can’t help but wonder if the outcome of this young man’s life wouldn’t have been different if he had been able to make connections with some of the people around him. I wonder how many people reached out to him when he was younger and obviously struggling with the fact that he was different.
No doubt, he is answering for his actions now, and probably deservedly so. It did make me think a little bit harder about how to treat those students in my classes who are withdrawn and bitter for whatever reason. I’ve been trying harder to make some connections with them. It’s not easy to do sometimes.
By chuck
April 26, 2007 2:17 PM | Link to this
BTW Samantha, if you aren’t one of those spammers…what exactly is it that you don’t get?
By Scalia
April 26, 2007 2:50 PM | Link to this
Chuck, that is hard. The students with the bright, sparkling personalities are the ones that tend to get the most attention. Or the students that have valid points to make, or just are really bright students. It seems to be the ones that you can excel with are the ones that seem to overshadow the quiet, bitter students.
By Lyrazzel
April 26, 2007 3:06 PM | Link to this
Israel will name a forest in northern Galilee after Coretta Scott King as the country replants thousands of trees destroyed during last year’s war with Hezbollah. The Coretta Scott King Forest will comprise at least 10,000 trees and be a living memorial to King’s legacy of peace and justice The woman cant even get her painting put up in GA.
By larry
April 26, 2007 3:11 PM | Link to this
Thanks for responding to my post Renee. Yes, of course, a few women commit crimes —- just a lot fewer of them. I never had to walk away from a group of girls on the playground because they all ganged up and physically beat someone who was different or who acted like a “sissy” (which, BTW, means acting like a girl); it happened many times with boys. I’ve never had to leave a party or a bar because I could see some woman was just itching for a chance to bust some a— and then a fight would be in full swing. That happened quite a few times too. We need to find out why males are much more prone to violence than females. And admitting the reality is the first step. We are in denial. Would we want to give someone a pill to stop them from being violent if we had a pill like that? Remember Clockwork Orange? Is it male chemistry? Is it the way we rear boys? Of course nobody is FOR violence except some game creators, rap video producers, movie makers, writers, boxing, wrestling, and hockey fans, warmakers. etc. But how much are we actually doing to understand and prevent violence? Not much.
By Monica
April 26, 2007 3:16 PM | Link to this
Chuck, Scalia, I too struggle with that issue. I will say that I have been more aware the last two weeks of my quiet, non-interacting kids. I don’t know if it’s always been this way or not, but it seems that more kids struggle with anger management issues than they used to. I attribute some of that to the newest generation of drug/alcohol babies and upper-class kids who have been neglected by their profit-driven parents (and stay-at-home bridge moms). Thoughts, anyone? (Especially since the current topic is dead).
By Monica
April 26, 2007 4:41 PM | Link to this
Bad people, violent people come in all genders, ethnic groups etc.
Say it isn’t so! You mean white women who had a normal life sometimes commit acts of violence? What’s Lynn Turner’s background story? Does anyone know? I still am wondering about the mother who left her daughter on the interstate because she was mad at her after a soccer game.
By lozen
April 27, 2007 10:13 AM | Link to this
“FRIENDS” VS. “SOUTHERN” FRIENDS
FRIENDS: Never ask for food. SOUTHERN FRIENDS: Always bring the food.
FRIENDS: Will say “hello”. SOUTHERN FRIENDS: Will give you a big hug and a kiss.
FRIENDS: Call your parents Mr. and Mrs. SOUTHERN FRIENDS: Call your parents Mom and Dad
FRIENDS: Have never seen you cry. SOUTHERN FRIENDS: Cry with you.
FRIENDS: Will eat at your dinner table and leave. SOUTHERN FRIENDS: Will spend hours there, talking, laughing, and just being together.
FRIENDS: Know a few things about you. SOUTHERN FRIENDS: Could write a book with direct quotes from you.
FRIENDS: Will leave you behind if that’s what the crowd is doing. SOUTHERN FRIENDS: Will kick the whole crowds’ back-ends that left you.
FRIENDS: Would knock on your door. SOUTHERN FRIENDS: Walk right in and say, “I’m home!”
FRIENDS: Are for a while. SOUTHREN FRIENDS: Are for life.
By chuck
April 27, 2007 10:30 AM | Link to this
Exactly Scalia and Monica. It’s a shame that we have to make an effort with those kids. It seems like it ought to have been a natural thing that we would always have done, but there aren’t a whole lot of teachers who are able to do that. As far as grades and rules and procedures go, I try to treat EVERY student the same, but I noticed that my human interaction, meaning the casual conversations and how I just relate to students kidding around and such, are way different from student to student. Some of that is based on how students respond and their individual personalities, but some of it is just not making an effort to connect with students who are, shall we say, less than loveable. Teachers know the ones I’m talking about. The ones who aren’t warm fuzzy type people.
Oh well, I have the whole summer to work on that and get better.
By Scalia
April 27, 2007 10:51 AM | Link to this
Yeah…I tend to deal well with the ones that warm and fuzzy. But when you pull the ones that are not warm and fuzzy and actually listen and talk to them, they start to warm up. It takes time. I have realized that the kids that are less than warm and fuzzy have nobody that actually listens to them. They need positive reenforcement. They seem to only get the negative attention.
But you have grandparents raising their kids children. And the parents that didn’t really want to have children, and they neglect them.
By Collective Soul
April 27, 2007 10:52 AM | Link to this
Give me a word Give me a sign Show me where to look Tell me what will I find. What will I find?
Lay me on the ground Or fly me in the sky Show me where to look Tell me what will I find. What will I find?
Love is in the water Love is in the air Show me where to look Tell me will love be there. Will love be there?
Teach me how to speak Teach me how to share Teach me where to go Tell me will love be there. Will love be there?
Yeah … Yeah … Yeah … Yeah.
Woah , Heaven let your light shine down Woah , Heaven let your light shine down
I’m gonna let it shine, I’m gonna let it shine, Heaven, let your light shine on me. Oh, Yeah, Yeah Heaven, let your light shine on me.
By Mara
April 27, 2007 10:55 AM | Link to this
lozen - speaking of friends…
When you are sad, I will get you drunk and help you plot revenge against the scum sucking bastidge/beyotch who made you sad.
When you are scared, I will laugh at you and tease you about it every chance I get.
When you are worried, I will tell you how much worse it could be and to quit complaining.
When you are confused, I will use little words to explain it to your dumb a$$.
When you are sick, I will hold your hair while you pay homage to the porcelain god.
When you fall, I will point and laugh at your clumsy a$$.
This is my oath; I pledge till the end.
Why you may ask? Because you’re my friend
happy FRIDAY to all!!
By Ian Anderson For k
April 27, 2007 10:55 AM | Link to this
Wond’ring aloud — how we feel today.
Last night sipped the sunset — my hands in her hair.
We are our own saviours as we start both our hearts beating life into each other.
Wond’ring aloud — will the years treat us well.
As she floats in the kitchen, I’m tasting the smell of toast as the butter runs.
Then she comes, spilling crumbs on the bed and I shake my head.
And it’s only the giving that makes you what you are.
By Scripts People Live
April 27, 2007 11:03 AM | Link to this
but I noticed that my human interaction, meaning the casual conversations and how I just relate to students kidding around and such, are way different from student to student. Some of that is based on how students respond and their individual personalities, but some of it is just not making an effort to connect with students who are, shall we say, less than loveable.
You might consider reading “Scripts People Live”, chuck. It explains WHY people live out negative, self-destructive scripts in life. Might help you develop a little more compassion.
By chuck
April 27, 2007 11:04 AM | Link to this
Isn’t it time for a “There goes the neighborhood”, Mr. Rogers?
By chuck
April 27, 2007 11:06 AM | Link to this
Happy Friday to you also, Mara.
By chuck
April 27, 2007 11:09 AM | Link to this
You might want to read “Scripts Written by Idiots”. It explains why chiroproctologists, live in fantasy worlds where they think some one cares what they think.
By Scripts People Live
April 27, 2007 11:16 AM | Link to this
It explains why chiroproctologists, live in fantasy worlds where they think some one cares what they think.
Don’t worry, chuck, I accepted your defeat long ago.
By MrRogers
April 27, 2007 11:27 AM | Link to this
There goes the neighborhood.
Thanks for the reminder, Chuck.
I figured someone’s been busy trying to impress you by getting a scrungy back-yard together.
By MrRogers
April 27, 2007 11:31 AM | Link to this
It explains why chiroproctologists, live in fantasy worlds where they think some one cares what they think. Don’t worry, chuck, I accepted your defeat long ago.
See, right there is a perfect example of the failings of the American educational system we hear so much about.
Ignore someone or refuse to answer their question and FalseLogic is applied to mean that the refusal means defeat or that someone does not know the answer.
Perfect example right there.
By chuck
April 27, 2007 11:34 AM | Link to this
We almost made the week. Into every life a little rain must fall.
By Scripts People Live
April 27, 2007 11:39 AM | Link to this
I won’t bug you today, though. Shinedown is in town and my buddy Rick invited me to come by the studio and help record their new CD. Any Shinedown fans aboard?
By Scripts People Live
April 27, 2007 11:44 AM | Link to this
You know Shinedown, don’t you chuck? They opened up for GodSmack last summer. I heard you’re a big GodSmack fan. ; > }
By Ian Anderson for chuck
April 27, 2007 11:51 AM | Link to this
People — what have you done — locked Him in His golden cage. Made Him bend to your religion — Him resurrected from the grave. He is the god of nothing — if that’s all that you can see. You are the god of everything — He’s inside you and me. So lean upon Him gently and don’t call on Him to save you from your social graces and the sins you used to waive. The bloody Church of England — in chains of history — requests your earthly presence at the vicarage for tea. And the graven image you-know-who — with His plastic crucifix — he’s got him fixed — confuses me as to who and where and why — as to how he gets his kicks. Confessing to the endless sin — the endless whining sounds. You’ll be praying till next Thursday to all the gods that you can count.
By lozen
April 27, 2007 11:51 AM | Link to this
By chuck April 27, 2007 11:09 AM | Link to this You might want to read “Scripts Written by Idiots”. It explains why chiroproctologists, live in fantasy worlds where they think some one cares what they think. Chuck I’m beginning to change my mind about you. ROTFLMAO
Ohhhhhh Aren’t we all impressed! Dog is going to help record Shinedown’s new CD! Wow. Wow. Far out! Aren’t we all impressed!
By chuck
April 27, 2007 11:55 AM | Link to this
You got that wrong…I’m a DOGSMACK fan. I like shinedown okay. I like there more bluesy type southern rock type stuff. I much prefer Dream Theater. Best musicians in the progrock genre. Though I’m not really sure I would place shinedown fully in the progrock category.
By lozen
April 27, 2007 12:00 PM | Link to this
There is something to like about everyone! Love the Ian Anderson song whatever-your-name-is-today.
By chuck
April 27, 2007 12:07 PM | Link to this
Thanks Lozen, do you think your system could really handle changing your opinion toward me? I don’t want you to get sick or anything, but I am glad I gave you a smile for today.
I think his friend “Rick” said he wanted dog to come by and clean the studio AFTER they record the CD. I think that is his new job he’s been talking about…custodian to the stars.
By Ian Anderson for chuck
April 27, 2007 12:09 PM | Link to this
I’m a DOGSMACK fan.
No problem, chuck. I’m a CHUCKSMACK fan myself.
Hey, are you excited that you won lozen over today? The word on the street is that she’s a hot tamale.
By chuck
April 27, 2007 12:14 PM | Link to this
You are not really very good at the “dozens” brudog. You sound a little bit like PeeWee Herman “I know youare but what am I?” He can get away with it because he is actually funny (even if he is a degenerate). You on the other hand are just sad.
By Ian Anderson for chuck
April 27, 2007 12:14 PM | Link to this
I’m not really a huge Shindown fan, but did appreciate their cover of Lynyrd Skynyrd’s “Simple Man”. That guitar intro gives me goosebumps every time. Did any of you watch the movie “Almost Famous”? Best movie soundtrack ever, IMO. It included Cat Steven’s “The Wind” and Led Zeppelin’s “That’s The Way”.
Smooches to you, lozen!
By Ian Anderson for chuck
April 27, 2007 12:17 PM | Link to this
I think his friend “Rick”
Google in “Shinedown” and you’ll find out who Rick is.
By Ian Anderson for chuck
April 27, 2007 12:23 PM | Link to this
Hard to beat LS’s “Tuesday’s Gone” for the goosebump factor, however. Up in Jersey, we used to have parties way out in the woods in the Pine Barrens. That was back when people used to paint murals on the side of their vans. Lots of good, clean acid back then.
By Mara
April 27, 2007 12:36 PM | Link to this
LOL @ “chiroproctologists”
By Robert Plant for lozen
April 27, 2007 12:38 PM | Link to this
I don’t know how I’m gonna tell you, I can’t play with you no more, I don’t know how I’m gonna do what mama told me, My friend, the boy next door. I can’t believe what people saying, You’re gonna let your hair hang down, I’m satisfied to sit here working all day long, You’re in the darker side of town.
And when I’m out I see you walking, Why don’t your eyes see me, Could it be you’ve found another game to play, What did mama say to me.
*That’s The Way, Oh, That’s The Way it ought to be, Yeah, yeah, mama say That’s The Way it ought to stay.
And yesterday I saw you standing by the river, And weren’t those tears that filled your eyes, And all the fish that lay in dirty water dying, Had they got you hypnotized?
And yesterday I saw you kissing tiny flowers, But all that lives is born to die. And so I say to you that nothing really matters, And all you do is stand and cry.
I don’t know what to say about it, When all you ears have turned away, But now’s the time to look and look again at what you see, Is that the way it ought to stay?
That’s the way… That’s the way it oughtta be Oh don’t you know now, Mama said.. that’s the way it’s gonna stay, yeah.
By Robert Plant for k
April 27, 2007 12:40 PM | Link to this
Oh she’s my baby, Let me tell you why Hey, she drives me crazy, She’s the apple of my eye ‘Cause she is my girl, And she can never do wrong If I dream too much at night, Somebody please bring me down
Hey, I love that little lady, I got to be her fool Ain’t no other like my baby, I can break the golden rule ‘Cause I get down on my knees, Oh, I pray that love won’t die And if I always try to please, I don’t know the reason why, yeah
If she would come back, Only stay with me
Every little bit of my love, etc., I give to you girl
I don’t have to go by plane I ain’t gotta go by car I don’t care just where my darling is People I just don’t care how far I’m gonna crawl I don’t care if I got to go back home I don’t care what I got to stand to her back I’m gonna crawl I’m gonna move the car, baby She give me good lovin Yes I love her, I guess I love her I’m gonna crawl.
By Robert Plant for k
April 27, 2007 12:47 PM | Link to this
Yes, I’M GONNA CRAWL!!
By kimberly
April 27, 2007 1:09 PM | Link to this
Eh… I like Shinedown’s detox song okay, but the cover of “Simple Man” is blasphemous, in my subjective opinion. Their cover grates my ears like nails on a chalkboard. The melody is lost on the attempt to style it out. Yuck.
Such a beautiful song… A from-the-heart ballad by and of the people of North Florida.. where redneck meets beach bum in a tousle of unkept, sun-bleached hair, leathered skin, tattoos, scraggled shorts, and shoeless feet. I watched a Skynard-friend local band perform it on the deck of a beachfront bar there… waves slapping a few yards away, late afternoon sun blazing, tempered only by the salty breezes… the blue collar folks on the picnic tables, sucking on oysters and shrimp and pitchers of beer while the sticky-faced, shoeless children ran around and danced. I sat alone, sipping a cheap brew, relaxing in the warmth and easiness of the day, when the band hit the first chords of Simple Man. The singer, no more than 95 pounds including long, stringy hair, drew a breath like he was about to say the most important words ever spoken. The crowd turned and fixated…. the song began… and every voice out there joined in with all they had inside. The song represented everything real and true about who they were, who WE were… God’s creations living on His planet in a natural state… remembering what matters most, and what matters not. As the chorus rose up and rang through the beach, I looked at every face there, holding and remembering them and the way I felt in the warm easy sun, and the beauty of the voices lifted together, and vowed to remember it always as one of those moments you never expect, but which are, by the grace of God, the most beautiful.
By Robert Plant for k
April 27, 2007 1:18 PM | Link to this
; > }
By Robert Plant for k
April 27, 2007 1:19 PM | Link to this
I looked at every face there, holding and remembering them and the way I felt in the warm easy sun, and the beauty of the voices lifted together, and vowed to remember it always as one of those moments you never expect, but which are, by the grace of God, the most beautiful.
Now do you guys know why I’m in love?
By Robert Plant for k
April 27, 2007 1:22 PM | Link to this
Hey kim: Skynyrd. 1976, Philadelphia, JFK stadium. Melted the stage!!! Poor Peter Frampton had to try to follow that, and almost got booed off the stage.
By Robert Plant for Everyone
April 27, 2007 1:36 PM | Link to this
Gotta run, but would love to hear of some of y’all’s greatest concert experiences. (Monica, are there two ‘s in y’all’s? I’m a Yankee).
I saw God many times at Grateful Dead concerts. Santana moved me also.
By chuck
April 27, 2007 1:58 PM | Link to this
You liked that Mara? I have a whole list of names for him that I use occasionally to put him back in the dog house. I’ll share them with you one day or start your own. It’s easy as 1-2-3. A couple of my favorite unused ones are:
O Neutered One
and
Chaser of Parked Cars
I also like: Leg Hiker
By Stud Muffin
April 27, 2007 2:07 PM | Link to this
chuck, You’ve been hanging out with eighth-graders too long.
By Stud Muffin
April 27, 2007 2:15 PM | Link to this
I tried to take a picture of chuckie the other day, but the glare coming from the top of his head was so bright it didn’t come out well. chuck, try to remember your “rug” next time, will you?
By Stud Muffin
April 27, 2007 2:17 PM | Link to this
Then chuck tried to say that my Grandma made my clothes from potato sacks. I told him “At least my Grandma had the sense to take the potatoes out first, chuckie”.
By SmokingGun
April 27, 2007 2:18 PM | Link to this
Y’all need to read the Smoking Gun’s conclusion report about the Duke accuser/liar’s behavior during the whole investigation. Nutjob.
By Mara
April 27, 2007 2:24 PM | Link to this
no joke, but darn funny in a creepy, Fahrenheit 451 kind of way. The entire item is worth the read if only for the “WTF” factor
http://blog.washingtonpost.com/offbeat/2007/04/arkansasdadsueslibraryover_1.html
excerpt -
“…two teenage boys in Bentonville, Arkansas unearthed a hefty tome entitled “The Whole Lesbian Sex Book” while “browsing for material on military academies” — or so they told their father. Although the sex guide by Felice Newman has been “deemed suitable for all public libraries, according to the Library Journal,” the dad, Earl Adams, was so perturbed by its contents that he is suing Bentonville for $20,000.”
“According to Adams, his two sons, ages 14 and 16, were “greatly disturbed” by their discovery and apparently underwent “many sleepless nights” as a result. In a letter faxed to Mayor Bob McCaslin, Adams himself wrote that the book pushes “an immoral social agenda.” He is seeking $10,000 per son — the maximum allowed under the Arkansas obscenity law — and has also demanded that the library director be fired.”
One has to wonder how sheltered these boys were that they are so very scarred by finding out the unvarnished details of girl-on-girl sex. You’d think they’ve never seen “Wild Things” or leafed through an issue of any “mens” magazine…
By MrRogers
April 27, 2007 2:46 PM | Link to this
*underwent “many sleepless nights” as a result. *
More like up all night jerkin’ off to the thought of two women getting it on. Now the boys know they will be looking for bi girlfriends from now on.
By lozen
April 27, 2007 3:01 PM | Link to this
Kimberly, if you wrote that - “Such a beautiful song…” I hope you’re writing a book! Mara life is stranger than fiction. Somebody should tell that father, “If you don’t want yer kids gettin’ educated, keep em away from the darn library!” Ridiculous.
By Handy Man
April 27, 2007 3:19 PM | Link to this
Kimberly, if you wrote that - “Such a beautiful song…” I hope you’re writing a book!
See, lozen—One more thing we have in common: Great taste in women. Seriously, isn’t she incredible?
By Handy Man
April 27, 2007 3:23 PM | Link to this
Well just got the yard cleaned up. Chuck and Chilao, do me a favor, please. When you get ready to rumble for real, try to stop by on an odd numbered day. I don’t want to get in trouble with the county on the outdoor watering restrictions when I go to hose you’se guys blood from my driveway. (BTW, “you’se guys is how we Yankees say “y’all”).
Well, time to train. Got up to 5 miles already. The only problem is I’m losing weight like crazy. I didn’t have any to spare.
By Handy Man
April 27, 2007 3:25 PM | Link to this
Maybe if kim would just break down and accept my “sugar daddy” proposal, she could write that book! What do y’all think?
By Mara
April 27, 2007 3:45 PM | Link to this
Folks, have an awesome weekend. I’m out o’ here…
By Steve Winwood
April 27, 2007 3:48 PM | Link to this
She bathes me in sweetness I cannot reveal For sharing dreams I need my woman
This humble expression meagerly dressed My eyes so mean it has no meaning But jealous night and all her secret chords I must be deaf on the telephone I need my love to translate I play the piano no more running honey This time to the sky I’ll sing if clouds don’t hear me To the sun I’ll cry and even if I’m blinded I’ll try moon gazer because with you I’m stronger
Arc of a diver effortlessly, my mind in sky and when I wake up
Daytime and nighttime I feel you near Warm water breathing she helps me here This time to the sky I’ll sing if clouds don’t hear me To the sun I’ll cry and even if I’m blinded I’ll try moon gazer because with you I’m stronger Lean streaky music spawned on the streets I hear it but with you I had to go ‘Cause my rock ‘n’ roll is putting on weight and the beat it goes on
Arc of a diver effortlessly, my mind in sky and when I wake up Daytime and nighttime I feel you near Warm water breathing she helps me here With you my love we’re going to raid the future With you my love we’re going to stick up the past We’ll hold today to ransom ‘til our quartz clock stop until
By Not _Taboga
April 27, 2007 3:50 PM | Link to this
Eaton, Eaton, is that you?
By Steve Winwood
April 27, 2007 3:52 PM | Link to this
Yes, with you , I’m stronger.
Have a great weekend, everyone. Cool show down at Piedmont Park on Sunday. C U there!!
By Jasonnterra
April 27, 2007 7:19 PM | Link to this
Looks good! Good resources here. Good stuff. I will be back!
By felicita
April 28, 2007 8:21 AM | Link to this
[url=http://felicitaworld.info/immagini-gratis/index.html]immagini gratis[/url] immagini gratis [url=http://felicitaworld.info/immagini-gratis/durante-embarazo-la-menstruation.html]durante embarazo la menstruation[/url] durante embarazo la menstruation [url=http://felicitaworld.info/immagini-gratis/durante-francesco.html]durante francesco[/url] durante francesco [url=http://felicitaworld.info/immagini-gratis/durante-jimmie.html]durante jimmie[/url] durante jimmie [url=http://felicitaworld.info/immagini-gratis/durante-jimmy-lyric.html]durante jimmy lyric[/url] durante jimmy lyric [url=http://felicitaworld.info/immagini-gratis/durante-ryan.html]durante ryan[/url] durante ryan [url=http://felicitaworld.info/immagini-gratis/dvd-gennaio.html]dvd gennaio[/url] dvd gennaio [url=http://felicitaworld.info/immagini-gratis/e-gian-giovane.html]e gian giovane[/url] e gian giovane [url=http://felicitaworld.info/immagini-gratis/e-la-lyric-nek-vita.html]e la lyric nek vita[/url] e la lyric nek vita [url=http://felicitaworld.info/immagini-gratis/e-la-lyric-vita.html]e la lyric vita[/url] e la lyric vita [url=http://felicitaworld.info/immagini-gratis/e-la-nek-vita.html]e la nek vita[/url] e la nek vita [url=http://felicitaworld.info/libri-usati/index.html]libri usati[/url] libri usati [url=http://felicitaworld.info/libri-usati/libro-giungla-dvd.html]libro giungla dvd[/url] libro giungla dvd [url=http://felicitaworld.info/libri-usati/libro-giungla-kan.html]libro giungla kan[/url] libro giungla kan [url=http://felicitaworld.info/libri-usati/libro-giungla-locandina.html]libro giungla locandina[/url] libro giungla locandina [url=http://felicitaworld.info/libri-usati/libro-giungla-mp3.html]libro giungla mp3[/url] libro giungla mp3 [url=http://felicitaworld.info/libri-usati/libro-giungla-r-kipling.html]libro giungla r kipling[/url] libro giungla r kipling [url=http://felicitaworld.info/libri-usati/libro-giungla-suoneria.html]libro giungla suoneria[/url] libro giungla suoneria [url=http://felicitaworld.info/libri-usati/libro-grande-dei-nome-bambino.html]libro grande dei nome bambino[/url] libro grande dei nome bambino [url=http://felicitaworld.info/libri-usati/libro-gratis-on-line.html]libro gratis on line[/url] libro gratis on line [url=http://felicitaworld.info/libri-usati/libro-gratis-online.html]libro gratis online[/url] libro gratis online [url=http://felicitaworld.info/libri-usati/libro-i-ragazzi-dello-zoo-di-berlino.html]libro i ragazzi dello zoo di berlino[/url] libro i ragazzi dello zoo di berlino
By felicita
April 28, 2007 8:35 AM | Link to this
[url=http://felicitaworld.info/ragazza-troia/index.html]ragazza troia[/url] ragazza troia [url=http://felicitaworld.info/ragazza-troia/foto-ragazze-al-mare.html]foto ragazze al mare[/url] foto ragazze al mare [url=http://felicitaworld.info/ragazza-troia/foto-ragazze-amatoriali.html]foto ragazze amatoriali[/url] foto ragazze amatoriali [url=http://felicitaworld.info/ragazza-troia/foto-ragazze-amatoriali-free.html]foto ragazze amatoriali free[/url] foto ragazze amatoriali free [url=http://felicitaworld.info/ragazza-troia/foto-ragazze-amatoriali-gratis.html]foto ragazze amatoriali gratis[/url] foto ragazze amatoriali gratis [url=http://felicitaworld.info/ragazza-troia/foto-ragazze-amatoriali-nude-gratis.html]foto ragazze amatoriali nude gratis[/url] foto ragazze amatoriali nude gratis [url=http://felicitaworld.info/ragazza-troia/foto-ragazze-anoressiche.html]foto ragazze anoressiche[/url] foto ragazze anoressiche [url=http://felicitaworld.info/ragazza-troia/foto-ragazze-belle.html]foto ragazze belle[/url] foto ragazze belle [url=http://felicitaworld.info/ragazza-troia/foto-ragazze-bellissime.html]foto ragazze bellissime[/url] foto ragazze bellissime [url=http://felicitaworld.info/ragazza-troia/foto-ragazze-bikini.html]foto ragazze bikini[/url] foto ragazze bikini [url=http://felicitaworld.info/ragazza-troia/foto-ragazze-cubane.html]foto ragazze cubane[/url] foto ragazze cubane [url=http://felicitaworld.info/visto-ingresso/index.html]visto ingresso[/url] visto ingresso [url=http://felicitaworld.info/visto-ingresso/immagine-colorare-cartone-animato-anno-80.html]immagine colorare cartone animato anno 80[/url] immagine colorare cartone animato anno 80 [url=http://felicitaworld.info/visto-ingresso/immagine-colorare-cartone-animato-giapponese.html]immagine colorare cartone animato giapponese[/url] immagine colorare cartone animato giapponese [url=http://felicitaworld.info/visto-ingresso/immagine-colorare-coccinelle.html]immagine colorare coccinelle[/url] immagine colorare coccinelle [url=http://felicitaworld.info/visto-ingresso/immagine-colorare-computer.html]immagine colorare computer[/url] immagine colorare computer [url=http://felicitaworld.info/visto-ingresso/immagine-colorare-dei-tre-porcellino.html]immagine colorare dei tre porcellino[/url] immagine colorare dei tre porcellino [url=http://felicitaworld.info/visto-ingresso/immagine-colorare-dragon-ball.html]immagine colorare dragon ball[/url] immagine colorare dragon ball [url=http://felicitaworld.info/visto-ingresso/immagine-colorare-fata-principessa.html]immagine colorare fata principessa[/url] immagine colorare fata principessa [url=http://felicitaworld.info/visto-ingresso/immagine-colorare-gatto-silvestro.html]immagine colorare gatto silvestro[/url] immagine colorare gatto silvestro [url=http://felicitaworld.info/visto-ingresso/immagine-colorare-ginevra-2000.html]immagine colorare ginevra 2000[/url] immagine colorare ginevra 2000 [url=http://felicitaworld.info/visto-ingresso/immagine-colorare-principessa-disney.html]immagine colorare principessa disney[/url] immagine colorare principessa disney
By felicita
April 28, 2007 8:57 AM | Link to this
[url=http://felicitaworld.info/video-sesso/index.html]video sesso[/url] video sesso [url=http://felicitaworld.info/video-sesso/voglio-sentirti-sborrare-chiama.html]voglio sentirti sborrare chiama[/url] voglio sentirti sborrare chiama [url=http://felicitaworld.info/video-sesso/voli-a-poco-prezzo.html]voli a poco prezzo[/url] voli a poco prezzo [url=http://felicitaworld.info/video-sesso/voli-poco-costosi.html]voli poco costosi[/url] voli poco costosi [url=http://felicitaworld.info/video-sesso/volo-poco-costosi-las-vegas.html]volo poco costosi las vegas[/url] volo poco costosi las vegas [url=http://felicitaworld.info/video-sesso/volo-poco-prezzo.html]volo poco prezzo[/url] volo poco prezzo [url=http://felicitaworld.info/video-sesso/volto-diavolo.html]volto diavolo[/url] volto diavolo [url=http://felicitaworld.info/video-sesso/w-w-w-sesso-it.html]w w w sesso it[/url] w w w sesso it [url=http://felicitaworld.info/video-sesso/week-end-ferragosto-poco-prezzo.html]week end ferragosto poco prezzo[/url] week end ferragosto poco prezzo [url=http://felicitaworld.info/video-sesso/week-end-ferragosto-poco-prezzo-sicilia.html]week end ferragosto poco prezzo sicilia[/url] week end ferragosto poco prezzo sicilia [url=http://felicitaworld.info/video-sesso/weleda-crema-corpo.html]weleda crema corpo[/url] weleda crema corpo [url=http://felicitaworld.info/linea-gotica/index.html]linea gotica[/url] linea gotica [url=http://felicitaworld.info/linea-gotica/foto-erotiche-lesbica.html]foto erotiche lesbica[/url] foto erotiche lesbica [url=http://felicitaworld.info/linea-gotica/foto-erotiche-lesbo.html]foto erotiche lesbo[/url] foto erotiche lesbo [url=http://felicitaworld.info/linea-gotica/foto-erotiche-maschili.html]foto erotiche maschili[/url] foto erotiche maschili [url=http://felicitaworld.info/linea-gotica/foto-erotiche-mature.html]foto erotiche mature[/url] foto erotiche mature [url=http://felicitaworld.info/linea-gotica/foto-erotiche-nude.html]foto erotiche nude[/url] foto erotiche nude [url=http://felicitaworld.info/linea-gotica/foto-erotiche-rubate.html]foto erotiche rubate[/url] foto erotiche rubate [url=http://felicitaworld.info/linea-gotica/foto-erotiche-uomo.html]foto erotiche uomo[/url] foto erotiche uomo [url=http://felicitaworld.info/linea-gotica/foto-esibizione-erotica.html]foto esibizione erotica[/url] foto esibizione erotica [url=http://felicitaworld.info/linea-gotica/foto-eva-he-erotica-gratis.html]foto eva he erotica gratis[/url] foto eva he erotica gratis [url=http://felicitaworld.info/linea-gotica/foto-festa-erotica.html]foto festa erotica[/url] foto festa erotica [url=http://felicitaworld.info/foto-donna/index.html]foto donna[/url] foto donna [url=http://felicitaworld.info/foto-donna/cerco-donna-compagnia.html]cerco donna compagnia[/url] cerco donna compagnia [url=http://felicitaworld.info/foto-donna/cerco-donna-conoscere.html]cerco donna conoscere[/url] cerco donna conoscere [url=http://felicitaworld.info/foto-donna/cerco-donna-dell-est.html]cerco donna dell est[/url] cerco donna dell est [url=http://felicitaworld.info/foto-donna/cerco-donna-dell-est-convivenza.html]cerco donna dell est convivenza[/url] cerco donna dell est convivenza [url=http://felicitaworld.info/foto-donna/cerco-donna-dell-est-seria-matrimonio.html]cerco donna dell est seria matrimonio[/url] cerco donna dell est seria matrimonio [url=http://felicitaworld.info/foto-donna/cerco-donna-diponibili.html]cerco donna diponibili[/url] cerco donna diponibili [url=http://felicitaworld.info/foto-donna/cerco-donna-disinibite.html]cerco donna disinibite[/url] cerco donna disinibite [url=http://felicitaworld.info/foto-donna/cerco-donna-disponibile.html]cerco donna disponibile[/url] cerco donna disponibile [url=http://felicitaworld.info/foto-donna/cerco-donna-disponibile-fare-sesso.html]cerco donna disponibile fare sesso[/url] cerco donna disponibile fare sesso [url=http://felicitaworld.info/foto-donna/cerco-donna-fare-pompino.html]cerco donna fare pompino[/url] cerco donna fare pompino
By felicita
April 28, 2007 9:29 AM | Link to this
[url=http://felicitaworld.info/rimedio-contro/index.html]rimedio contro[/url] rimedio contro [url=http://felicitaworld.info/rimedio-contro/lavoro-ente-turismo-milano.html]lavoro ente turismo milano[/url] lavoro ente turismo milano [url=http://felicitaworld.info/rimedio-contro/lavoro-eseguire-casa.html]lavoro eseguire casa[/url] lavoro eseguire casa [url=http://felicitaworld.info/rimedio-contro/lavoro-estero-au-pair.html]lavoro estero au pair[/url] lavoro estero au pair [url=http://felicitaworld.info/rimedio-contro/lavoro-estero-cercasi.html]lavoro estero cercasi[/url] lavoro estero cercasi [url=http://felicitaworld.info/rimedio-contro/lavoro-estero-chef.html]lavoro estero chef[/url] lavoro estero chef [url=http://felicitaworld.info/rimedio-contro/lavoro-estero-giappone.html]lavoro estero giappone[/url] lavoro estero giappone [url=http://felicitaworld.info/rimedio-contro/lavoro-estero-it.html]lavoro estero it[/url] lavoro estero it [url=http://felicitaworld.info/rimedio-contro/lavoro-estero-offerta.html]lavoro estero offerta[/url] lavoro estero offerta [url=http://felicitaworld.info/rimedio-contro/lavoro-estero-rep-ceca.html]lavoro estero rep ceca[/url] lavoro estero rep ceca [url=http://felicitaworld.info/rimedio-contro/lavoro-estero-under-18.html]lavoro estero under 18[/url] lavoro estero under 18 [url=http://felicitaworld.info/tatuaggio-maori/index.html]tatuaggio maori[/url] tatuaggio maori [url=http://felicitaworld.info/tatuaggio-maori/cosa-non-si-deve-mangiare-celiachia.html]cosa non si deve mangiare celiachia[/url] cosa non si deve mangiare celiachia [url=http://felicitaworld.info/tatuaggio-maori/cosa-non-si-deve-mangiare-laceliachia.html]cosa non si deve mangiare laceliachia[/url] cosa non si deve mangiare laceliachia [url=http://felicitaworld.info/tatuaggio-maori/cosa-non-si-puo-portare-aereo.html]cosa non si puo portare aereo[/url] cosa non si puo portare aereo [url=http://felicitaworld.info/tatuaggio-maori/cosa-non-si-puo-portare-aereoporto.html]cosa non si puo portare aereoporto[/url] cosa non si puo portare aereoporto [url=http://felicitaworld.info/tatuaggio-maori/cosa-obbligazioni.html]cosa obbligazioni[/url] cosa obbligazioni [url=http://felicitaworld.info/tatuaggio-maori/cosa-pensano-consumatore-sicurezza-alimentare.html]cosa pensano consumatore sicurezza alimentare[/url] cosa pensano consumatore sicurezza alimentare [url=http://felicitaworld.info/tatuaggio-maori/cosa-pensano-donna-uomo-si-masturbano.html]cosa pensano donna uomo si masturbano[/url] cosa pensano donna uomo si masturbano [url=http://felicitaworld.info/tatuaggio-maori/cosa-pensano-maschio-bella-donna-it.html]cosa pensano maschio bella donna it[/url] cosa pensano maschio bella donna it [url=http://felicitaworld.info/tatuaggio-maori/cosa-piace-fare.html]cosa piace fare[/url] cosa piace fare [url=http://felicitaworld.info/tatuaggio-maori/cosa-piaggio.html]cosa piaggio[/url] cosa piaggio
By felicita
April 28, 2007 11:35 AM | Link to this
[url=http://felicitaworld.info/ragazza-troia/index.html]ragazza troia[/url] ragazza troia [url=http://felicitaworld.info/ragazza-troia/foto-ragazze-al-mare.html]foto ragazze al mare[/url] foto ragazze al mare [url=http://felicitaworld.info/ragazza-troia/foto-ragazze-amatoriali.html]foto ragazze amatoriali[/url] foto ragazze amatoriali [url=http://felicitaworld.info/ragazza-troia/foto-ragazze-amatoriali-free.html]foto ragazze amatoriali free[/url] foto ragazze amatoriali free [url=http://felicitaworld.info/ragazza-troia/foto-ragazze-amatoriali-gratis.html]foto ragazze amatoriali gratis[/url] foto ragazze amatoriali gratis [url=http://felicitaworld.info/ragazza-troia/foto-ragazze-amatoriali-nude-gratis.html]foto ragazze amatoriali nude gratis[/url] foto ragazze amatoriali nude gratis [url=http://felicitaworld.info/ragazza-troia/foto-ragazze-anoressiche.html]foto ragazze anoressiche[/url] foto ragazze anoressiche [url=http://felicitaworld.info/ragazza-troia/foto-ragazze-belle.html]foto ragazze belle[/url] foto ragazze belle [url=http://felicitaworld.info/ragazza-troia/foto-ragazze-bellissime.html]foto ragazze bellissime[/url] foto ragazze bellissime [url=http://felicitaworld.info/ragazza-troia/foto-ragazze-bikini.html]foto ragazze bikini[/url] foto ragazze bikini [url=http://felicitaworld.info/ragazza-troia/foto-ragazze-cubane.html]foto ragazze cubane[/url] foto ragazze cubane [url=http://felicitaworld.info/visto-ingresso/index.html]visto ingresso[/url] visto ingresso [url=http://felicitaworld.info/visto-ingresso/immagine-colorare-cartone-animato-anno-80.html]immagine colorare cartone animato anno 80[/url] immagine colorare cartone animato anno 80 [url=http://felicitaworld.info/visto-ingresso/immagine-colorare-cartone-animato-giapponese.html]immagine colorare cartone animato giapponese[/url] immagine colorare cartone animato giapponese [url=http://felicitaworld.info/visto-ingresso/immagine-colorare-coccinelle.html]immagine colorare coccinelle[/url] immagine colorare coccinelle [url=http://felicitaworld.info/visto-ingresso/immagine-colorare-computer.html]immagine colorare computer[/url] immagine colorare computer [url=http://felicitaworld.info/visto-ingresso/immagine-colorare-dei-tre-porcellino.html]immagine colorare dei tre porcellino[/url] immagine colorare dei tre porcellino [url=http://felicitaworld.info/visto-ingresso/immagine-colorare-dragon-ball.html]immagine colorare dragon ball[/url] immagine colorare dragon ball [url=http://felicitaworld.info/visto-ingresso/immagine-colorare-fata-principessa.html]immagine colorare fata principessa[/url] immagine colorare fata principessa [url=http://felicitaworld.info/visto-ingresso/immagine-colorare-gatto-silvestro.html]immagine colorare gatto silvestro[/url] immagine colorare gatto silvestro [url=http://felicitaworld.info/visto-ingresso/immagine-colorare-ginevra-2000.html]immagine colorare ginevra 2000[/url] immagine colorare ginevra 2000 [url=http://felicitaworld.info/visto-ingresso/immagine-colorare-principessa-disney.html]immagine colorare principessa disney[/url] immagine colorare principessa disney
By felicita
April 28, 2007 11:37 AM | Link to this
[url=http://felicitaworld.info/ragazza-troia/index.html]ragazza troia[/url] ragazza troia [url=http://felicitaworld.info/ragazza-troia/foto-ragazze-al-mare.html]foto ragazze al mare[/url] foto ragazze al mare [url=http://felicitaworld.info/ragazza-troia/foto-ragazze-amatoriali.html]foto ragazze amatoriali[/url] foto ragazze amatoriali [url=http://felicitaworld.info/ragazza-troia/foto-ragazze-amatoriali-free.html]foto ragazze amatoriali free[/url] foto ragazze amatoriali free [url=http://felicitaworld.info/ragazza-troia/foto-ragazze-amatoriali-gratis.html]foto ragazze amatoriali gratis[/url] foto ragazze amatoriali gratis [url=http://felicitaworld.info/ragazza-troia/foto-ragazze-amatoriali-nude-gratis.html]foto ragazze amatoriali nude gratis[/url] foto ragazze amatoriali nude gratis [url=http://felicitaworld.info/ragazza-troia/foto-ragazze-anoressiche.html]foto ragazze anoressiche[/url] foto ragazze anoressiche [url=http://felicitaworld.info/ragazza-troia/foto-ragazze-belle.html]foto ragazze belle[/url] foto ragazze belle [url=http://felicitaworld.info/ragazza-troia/foto-ragazze-bellissime.html]foto ragazze bellissime[/url] foto ragazze bellissime [url=http://felicitaworld.info/ragazza-troia/foto-ragazze-bikini.html]foto ragazze bikini[/url] foto ragazze bikini [url=http://felicitaworld.info/ragazza-troia/foto-ragazze-cubane.html]foto ragazze cubane[/url] foto ragazze cubane [url=http://felicitaworld.info/visto-ingresso/index.html]visto ingresso[/url] visto ingresso [url=http://felicitaworld.info/visto-ingresso/immagine-colorare-cartone-animato-anno-80.html]immagine colorare cartone animato anno 80[/url] immagine colorare cartone animato anno 80 [url=http://felicitaworld.info/visto-ingresso/immagine-colorare-cartone-animato-giapponese.html]immagine colorare cartone animato giapponese[/url] immagine colorare cartone animato giapponese [url=http://felicitaworld.info/visto-ingresso/immagine-colorare-coccinelle.html]immagine colorare coccinelle[/url] immagine colorare coccinelle [url=http://felicitaworld.info/visto-ingresso/immagine-colorare-computer.html]immagine colorare computer[/url] immagine colorare computer [url=http://felicitaworld.info/visto-ingresso/immagine-colorare-dei-tre-porcellino.html]immagine colorare dei tre porcellino[/url] immagine colorare dei tre porcellino [url=http://felicitaworld.info/visto-ingresso/immagine-colorare-dragon-ball.html]immagine colorare dragon ball[/url] immagine colorare dragon ball [url=http://felicitaworld.info/visto-ingresso/immagine-colorare-fata-principessa.html]immagine colorare fata principessa[/url] immagine colorare fata principessa [url=http://felicitaworld.info/visto-ingresso/immagine-colorare-gatto-silvestro.html]immagine colorare gatto silvestro[/url] immagine colorare gatto silvestro [url=http://felicitaworld.info/visto-ingresso/immagine-colorare-ginevra-2000.html]immagine colorare ginevra 2000[/url] immagine colorare ginevra 2000 [url=http://felicitaworld.info/visto-ingresso/immagine-colorare-principessa-disney.html]immagine colorare principessa disney[/url] immagine colorare principessa disney
By felicita
April 28, 2007 3:03 PM | Link to this
[url=http://felicitaworld.info/ragazza-troia/index.html]ragazza troia[/url] ragazza troia [url=http://felicitaworld.info/ragazza-troia/foto-ragazze-al-mare.html]foto ragazze al mare[/url] foto ragazze al mare [url=http://felicitaworld.info/ragazza-troia/foto-ragazze-amatoriali.html]foto ragazze amatoriali[/url] foto ragazze amatoriali [url=http://felicitaworld.info/ragazza-troia/foto-ragazze-amatoriali-free.html]foto ragazze amatoriali free[/url] foto ragazze amatoriali free [url=http://felicitaworld.info/ragazza-troia/foto-ragazze-amatoriali-gratis.html]foto ragazze amatoriali gratis[/url] foto ragazze amatoriali gratis [url=http://felicitaworld.info/ragazza-troia/foto-ragazze-amatoriali-nude-gratis.html]foto ragazze amatoriali nude gratis[/url] foto ragazze amatoriali nude gratis [url=http://felicitaworld.info/ragazza-troia/foto-ragazze-anoressiche.html]foto ragazze anoressiche[/url] foto ragazze anoressiche [url=http://felicitaworld.info/ragazza-troia/foto-ragazze-belle.html]foto ragazze belle[/url] foto ragazze belle [url=http://felicitaworld.info/ragazza-troia/foto-ragazze-bellissime.html]foto ragazze bellissime[/url] foto ragazze bellissime [url=http://felicitaworld.info/ragazza-troia/foto-ragazze-bikini.html]foto ragazze bikini[/url] foto ragazze bikini [url=http://felicitaworld.info/ragazza-troia/foto-ragazze-cubane.html]foto ragazze cubane[/url] foto ragazze cubane [url=http://felicitaworld.info/visto-ingresso/index.html]visto ingresso[/url] visto ingresso [url=http://felicitaworld.info/visto-ingresso/immagine-colorare-cartone-animato-anno-80.html]immagine colorare cartone animato anno 80[/url] immagine colorare cartone animato anno 80 [url=http://felicitaworld.info/visto-ingresso/immagine-colorare-cartone-animato-giapponese.html]immagine colorare cartone animato giapponese[/url] immagine colorare cartone animato giapponese [url=http://felicitaworld.info/visto-ingresso/immagine-colorare-coccinelle.html]immagine colorare coccinelle[/url] immagine colorare coccinelle [url=http://felicitaworld.info/visto-ingresso/immagine-colorare-computer.html]immagine colorare computer[/url] immagine colorare computer [url=http://felicitaworld.info/visto-ingresso/immagine-colorare-dei-tre-porcellino.html]immagine colorare dei tre porcellino[/url] immagine colorare dei tre porcellino [url=http://felicitaworld.info/visto-ingresso/immagine-colorare-dragon-ball.html]immagine colorare dragon ball[/url] immagine colorare dragon ball [url=http://felicitaworld.info/visto-ingresso/immagine-colorare-fata-principessa.html]immagine colorare fata principessa[/url] immagine colorare fata principessa [url=http://felicitaworld.info/visto-ingresso/immagine-colorare-gatto-silvestro.html]immagine colorare gatto silvestro[/url] immagine colorare gatto silvestro [url=http://felicitaworld.info/visto-ingresso/immagine-colorare-ginevra-2000.html]immagine colorare ginevra 2000[/url] immagine colorare ginevra 2000 [url=http://felicitaworld.info/visto-ingresso/immagine-colorare-principessa-disney.html]immagine colorare principessa disney[/url] immagine colorare principessa disney
By felicita
April 28, 2007 3:25 PM | Link to this
[url=http://felicitaworld.info/ragazza-troia/index.html]ragazza troia[/url] ragazza troia [url=http://felicitaworld.info/ragazza-troia/foto-ragazze-al-mare.html]foto ragazze al mare[/url] foto ragazze al mare [url=http://felicitaworld.info/ragazza-troia/foto-ragazze-amatoriali.html]foto ragazze amatoriali[/url] foto ragazze amatoriali [url=http://felicitaworld.info/ragazza-troia/foto-ragazze-amatoriali-free.html]foto ragazze amatoriali free[/url] foto ragazze amatoriali free [url=http://felicitaworld.info/ragazza-troia/foto-ragazze-amatoriali-gratis.html]foto ragazze amatoriali gratis[/url] foto ragazze amatoriali gratis [url=http://felicitaworld.info/ragazza-troia/foto-ragazze-amatoriali-nude-gratis.html]foto ragazze amatoriali nude gratis[/url] foto ragazze amatoriali nude gratis [url=http://felicitaworld.info/ragazza-troia/foto-ragazze-anoressiche.html]foto ragazze anoressiche[/url] foto ragazze anoressiche [url=http://felicitaworld.info/ragazza-troia/foto-ragazze-belle.html]foto ragazze belle[/url] foto ragazze belle [url=http://felicitaworld.info/ragazza-troia/foto-ragazze-bellissime.html]foto ragazze bellissime[/url] foto ragazze bellissime [url=http://felicitaworld.info/ragazza-troia/foto-ragazze-bikini.html]foto ragazze bikini[/url] foto ragazze bikini [url=http://felicitaworld.info/ragazza-troia/foto-ragazze-cubane.html]foto ragazze cubane[/url] foto ragazze cubane [url=http://felicitaworld.info/visto-ingresso/index.html]visto ingresso[/url] visto ingresso [url=http://felicitaworld.info/visto-ingresso/immagine-colorare-cartone-animato-anno-80.html]immagine colorare cartone animato anno 80[/url] immagine colorare cartone animato anno 80 [url=http://felicitaworld.info/visto-ingresso/immagine-colorare-cartone-animato-giapponese.html]immagine colorare cartone animato giapponese[/url] immagine colorare cartone animato giapponese [url=http://felicitaworld.info/visto-ingresso/immagine-colorare-coccinelle.html]immagine colorare coccinelle[/url] immagine colorare coccinelle [url=http://felicitaworld.info/visto-ingresso/immagine-colorare-computer.html]immagine colorare computer[/url] immagine colorare computer [url=http://felicitaworld.info/visto-ingresso/immagine-colorare-dei-tre-porcellino.html]immagine colorare dei tre porcellino[/url] immagine colorare dei tre porcellino [url=http://felicitaworld.info/visto-ingresso/immagine-colorare-dragon-ball.html]immagine colorare dragon ball[/url] immagine colorare dragon ball [url=http://felicitaworld.info/visto-ingresso/immagine-colorare-fata-principessa.html]immagine colorare fata principessa[/url] immagine colorare fata principessa [url=http://felicitaworld.info/visto-ingresso/immagine-colorare-gatto-silvestro.html]immagine colorare gatto silvestro[/url] immagine colorare gatto silvestro [url=http://felicitaworld.info/visto-ingresso/immagine-colorare-ginevra-2000.html]immagine colorare ginevra 2000[/url] immagine colorare ginevra 2000 [url=http://felicitaworld.info/visto-ingresso/immagine-colorare-principessa-disney.html]immagine colorare principessa disney[/url] immagine colorare principessa disney
By supplyiowi
April 28, 2007 5:23 PM | Link to this
By supplyfbit
April 28, 2007 5:54 PM | Link to this
By felicita
April 28, 2007 6:45 PM | Link to this
[url=http://felicitaworld.info/scheda-rete/index.html]scheda rete[/url] scheda rete [url=http://felicitaworld.info/scheda-rete/scheda-di-rete-stampante.html]scheda di rete stampante[/url] scheda di rete stampante [url=http://felicitaworld.info/scheda-rete/scheda-di-rete-usb.html]scheda di rete usb[/url] scheda di rete usb [url=http://felicitaworld.info/scheda-rete/scheda-di-rete-usb-wireless.html]scheda di rete usb wireless[/url] scheda di rete usb wireless [url=http://felicitaworld.info/scheda-rete/scheda-di-rete-wi-fi.html]scheda di rete wi fi[/url] scheda di rete wi fi [url=http://felicitaworld.info/scheda-rete/scheda-di-rete-wifi.html]scheda di rete wifi[/url] scheda di rete wifi [url=http://felicitaworld.info/scheda-rete/scheda-di-rete-wireless.html]scheda di rete wireless[/url] scheda di rete wireless [url=http://felicitaworld.info/scheda-rete/scheda-di-rete-wireless-pci.html]scheda di rete wireless pci[/url] scheda di rete wireless pci [url=http://felicitaworld.info/scheda-rete/scheda-di-rete-wireless-pcmcia.html]scheda di rete wireless pcmcia[/url] scheda di rete wireless pcmcia [url=http://felicitaworld.info/scheda-rete/scheda-di-rete-wirless.html]scheda di rete wirless[/url] scheda di rete wirless [url=http://felicitaworld.info/scheda-rete/scheda-filo-rete-laptop.html]scheda filo rete laptop[/url] scheda filo rete laptop [url=http://felicitaworld.info/vendita-libro/index.html]vendita libro[/url] vendita libro [url=http://felicitaworld.info/vendita-libro/saggio-donna-letteratura.html]saggio donna letteratura[/url] saggio donna letteratura [url=http://felicitaworld.info/vendita-libro/saggio-droga-letteratura.html]saggio droga letteratura[/url] saggio droga letteratura [url=http://felicitaworld.info/vendita-libro/sagra-forno-sopra.html]sagra forno sopra[/url] sagra forno sopra [url=http://felicitaworld.info/vendita-libro/sala-gioco-avventura-on-line.html]sala gioco avventura on line[/url] sala gioco avventura on line [url=http://felicitaworld.info/vendita-libro/salerno-vendita-annuncio-auto-usata.html]salerno vendita annuncio auto usata[/url] salerno vendita annuncio auto usata [url=http://felicitaworld.info/vendita-libro/salveo-vita.html]salveo vita[/url] salveo vita [url=http://felicitaworld.info/vendita-libro/samoa-americane.html]samoa americane[/url] samoa americane [url=http://felicitaworld.info/vendita-libro/samoa-americane-ambiente.html]samoa americane ambiente[/url] samoa americane ambiente [url=http://felicitaworld.info/vendita-libro/samoa-americane-arrivare.html]samoa americane arrivare[/url] samoa americane arrivare [url=http://felicitaworld.info/vendita-libro/samoa-americane-attrazioni.html]samoa americane attrazioni[/url] samoa americane attrazioni
By supplyckir
April 28, 2007 6:51 PM | Link to this
By supplygdqo
April 28, 2007 7:23 PM | Link to this
By supplyznml
April 28, 2007 8:22 PM | Link to this
By supplyznte
April 28, 2007 8:55 PM | Link to this
By supplyzfzi
April 28, 2007 9:52 PM | Link to this
By supplyqgnv
April 28, 2007 10:25 PM | Link to this
By Alpazolam
April 29, 2007 8:29 AM | Link to this
Hey, guys! Great site. I bookmark this place and waiting for me tommorow! Viagra [url=http://tools.wikimedia.de/cgi-bin/bugzilla/attachment.cgi?id=8 ]Viagra[/url] http://tools.wikimedia.de/cgi-bin/bugzilla/attachment.cgi?id=8 Alpazolam [url=http://tools.wikimedia.de/cgi-bin/bugzilla/attachment.cgi?id=17 ]Alpazolam[/url] http://tools.wikimedia.de/cgi-bin/bugzilla/attachment.cgi?id=17 Ambien [url=http://tools.wikimedia.de/cgi-bin/bugzilla/attachment.cgi?id=18 ]Ambien[/url] http://tools.wikimedia.de/cgi-bin/bugzilla/attachment.cgi?id=18 Ativan [url=http://tools.wikimedia.de/cgi-bin/bugzilla/attachment.cgi?id=19 ]Ativan[/url] http://tools.wikimedia.de/cgi-bin/bugzilla/attachment.cgi?id=19 Carisoprodol [url=http://tools.wikimedia.de/cgi-bin/bugzilla/attachment.cgi?id=20 ]Carisoprodol[/url] http://tools.wikimedia.de/cgi-bin/bugzilla/attachment.cgi?id=20 Diazepam [url=http://tools.wikimedia.de/cgi-bin/bugzilla/attachment.cgi?id=21 ]Diazepam[/url] http://tools.wikimedia.de/cgi-bin/bugzilla/attachment.cgi?id=21 Hydrocodone [url=http://tools.wikimedia.de/cgi-bin/bugzilla/attachment.cgi?id=22 ]Hydrocodone[/url] http://tools.wikimedia.de/cgi-bin/bugzilla/attachment.cgi?id=22 Soma [url=http://tools.wikimedia.de/cgi-bin/bugzilla/attachment.cgi?id=23 ]Soma[/url] http://tools.wikimedia.de/cgi-bin/bugzilla/attachment.cgi?id=23 Ultram [url=http://tools.wikimedia.de/cgi-bin/bugzilla/attachment.cgi?id=24 ]Ultram[/url] http://tools.wikimedia.de/cgi-bin/bugzilla/attachment.cgi?id=24 Vicodin [url=http://tools.wikimedia.de/cgi-bin/bugzilla/attachment.cgi?id=25 ]Vicodin[/url] http://tools.wikimedia.de/cgi-bin/bugzilla/attachment.cgi?id=25 Zoloft [url=http://tools.wikimedia.de/cgi-bin/bugzilla/attachment.cgi?id=26 ]Zoloft[/url] http://tools.wikimedia.de/cgi-bin/bugzilla/attachment.cgi?id=26
By Alpazolam
April 29, 2007 8:42 AM | Link to this
Hey, guys! Great site. I bookmark this place and waiting for me tommorow! Viagra [url=http://tools.wikimedia.de/cgi-bin/bugzilla/attachment.cgi?id=8 ]Viagra[/url] http://tools.wikimedia.de/cgi-bin/bugzilla/attachment.cgi?id=8 Alpazolam [url=http://tools.wikimedia.de/cgi-bin/bugzilla/attachment.cgi?id=17 ]Alpazolam[/url] http://tools.wikimedia.de/cgi-bin/bugzilla/attachment.cgi?id=17 Ambien [url=http://tools.wikimedia.de/cgi-bin/bugzilla/attachment.cgi?id=18 ]Ambien[/url] http://tools.wikimedia.de/cgi-bin/bugzilla/attachment.cgi?id=18 Ativan [url=http://tools.wikimedia.de/cgi-bin/bugzilla/attachment.cgi?id=19 ]Ativan[/url] http://tools.wikimedia.de/cgi-bin/bugzilla/attachment.cgi?id=19 Carisoprodol [url=http://tools.wikimedia.de/cgi-bin/bugzilla/attachment.cgi?id=20 ]Carisoprodol[/url] http://tools.wikimedia.de/cgi-bin/bugzilla/attachment.cgi?id=20 Diazepam [url=http://tools.wikimedia.de/cgi-bin/bugzilla/attachment.cgi?id=21 ]Diazepam[/url] http://tools.wikimedia.de/cgi-bin/bugzilla/attachment.cgi?id=21 Hydrocodone [url=http://tools.wikimedia.de/cgi-bin/bugzilla/attachment.cgi?id=22 ]Hydrocodone[/url] http://tools.wikimedia.de/cgi-bin/bugzilla/attachment.cgi?id=22 Soma [url=http://tools.wikimedia.de/cgi-bin/bugzilla/attachment.cgi?id=23 ]Soma[/url] http://tools.wikimedia.de/cgi-bin/bugzilla/attachment.cgi?id=23 Ultram [url=http://tools.wikimedia.de/cgi-bin/bugzilla/attachment.cgi?id=24 ]Ultram[/url] http://tools.wikimedia.de/cgi-bin/bugzilla/attachment.cgi?id=24 Vicodin [url=http://tools.wikimedia.de/cgi-bin/bugzilla/attachment.cgi?id=25 ]Vicodin[/url] http://tools.wikimedia.de/cgi-bin/bugzilla/attachment.cgi?id=25 Zoloft [url=http://tools.wikimedia.de/cgi-bin/bugzilla/attachment.cgi?id=26 ]Zoloft[/url] http://tools.wikimedia.de/cgi-bin/bugzilla/attachment.cgi?id=26
By vicodin
April 29, 2007 10:16 AM | Link to this
Good site! vicodin, ([url=http://www.quizilla.com/users/vicodines/journal/504460/vicodin-buycheapvicodin_online/]vicodin[/url]).
By Alpazolam
April 29, 2007 10:32 AM | Link to this
Hey, guys! Great site. I bookmark this place and waiting for me tommorow! Viagra [url=http://tools.wikimedia.de/cgi-bin/bugzilla/attachment.cgi?id=8 ]Viagra[/url] http://tools.wikimedia.de/cgi-bin/bugzilla/attachment.cgi?id=8 Alpazolam [url=http://tools.wikimedia.de/cgi-bin/bugzilla/attachment.cgi?id=17 ]Alpazolam[/url] http://tools.wikimedia.de/cgi-bin/bugzilla/attachment.cgi?id=17 Ambien [url=http://tools.wikimedia.de/cgi-bin/bugzilla/attachment.cgi?id=18 ]Ambien[/url] http://tools.wikimedia.de/cgi-bin/bugzilla/attachment.cgi?id=18 Ativan [url=http://tools.wikimedia.de/cgi-bin/bugzilla/attachment.cgi?id=19 ]Ativan[/url] http://tools.wikimedia.de/cgi-bin/bugzilla/attachment.cgi?id=19 Carisoprodol [url=http://tools.wikimedia.de/cgi-bin/bugzilla/attachment.cgi?id=20 ]Carisoprodol[/url] http://tools.wikimedia.de/cgi-bin/bugzilla/attachment.cgi?id=20 Diazepam [url=http://tools.wikimedia.de/cgi-bin/bugzilla/attachment.cgi?id=21 ]Diazepam[/url] http://tools.wikimedia.de/cgi-bin/bugzilla/attachment.cgi?id=21 Hydrocodone [url=http://tools.wikimedia.de/cgi-bin/bugzilla/attachment.cgi?id=22 ]Hydrocodone[/url] http://tools.wikimedia.de/cgi-bin/bugzilla/attachment.cgi?id=22 Soma [url=http://tools.wikimedia.de/cgi-bin/bugzilla/attachment.cgi?id=23 ]Soma[/url] http://tools.wikimedia.de/cgi-bin/bugzilla/attachment.cgi?id=23 Ultram [url=http://tools.wikimedia.de/cgi-bin/bugzilla/attachment.cgi?id=24 ]Ultram[/url] http://tools.wikimedia.de/cgi-bin/bugzilla/attachment.cgi?id=24 Vicodin [url=http://tools.wikimedia.de/cgi-bin/bugzilla/attachment.cgi?id=25 ]Vicodin[/url] http://tools.wikimedia.de/cgi-bin/bugzilla/attachment.cgi?id=25 Zoloft [url=http://tools.wikimedia.de/cgi-bin/bugzilla/attachment.cgi?id=26 ]Zoloft[/url] http://tools.wikimedia.de/cgi-bin/bugzilla/attachment.cgi?id=26
By free ringtones
April 29, 2007 10:46 AM | Link to this
Very good site! free ringtones, [url=http://www.quizilla.com/users/free13/journal/504463/downloadfreemp3_ringtones/]free ringtones[/url].