AJC.com > Opinion > Woman to Woman > Archives > 2007 > April > 12 > Entry
Do stay-at-home moms risk their futures by opting out of the rat race?
Diane Glass, a left-leaning columnist, writes the commentary this week and Shaunti Feldhahn, a right-leaning columnist, responds.
Diane Glass, a left-leaning columnist, writes the commentary this week and Shaunti Feldhahn, a right-leaning columnist, responds.
Commentary
Not only do mothers risk their financial and emotional stability by opting out of their careers, they also put their children’s welfare in jeopardy. We should really be asking if mothers can raise healthy children if they don’t work, says author Leslie Bennetts, a married mother of two teenagers. Consider the facts in her controversial new book, “The Feminine Mistake: Are We Giving Up Too Much?”
Research on the emotional health of children raised by working moms versus stay-at-homes always comes out a wash, says Bennetts. It’s an emotionally and financially supportive home that fosters positive outcomes for children, not a mother’s work status.
And then there are the personal costs associated if you buy into the “Prince Charming” fantasy.
“I wrote the book because it became clear to me women were making irrevocable choices,” Bennetts says. “Marriage is an economic partnership, but women assume all of the risk.”
Bennetts believes such risks can prove to be both emotionally and financially devastating. Say a woman devotes her life to her children, and then her husband walks out the door. “Her life is shattered and her standard of living falls precipitously,” Bennetts says.
It happens all the time.
Bennetts’ book is rife with convincing data about the vulnerability of opting out. Divorce rates are at 50 percent. Spouses unexpectedly die. Older women are twice as likely to live in poverty. This last statistic is often associated with divorce, and it snowballs into its own set of challenges.
Take, for instance, the realities of divorce court today. Stay-at-home moms are more likely to be awarded only temporary alimony, forcing them to pound the pavement. Child support isn’t a smooth ride either. More than 11 million child-support cases in 2005 were in arrears, according to the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services. And if mothers do find work, Bennetts warns, their earning power gets a 40 percent hit after only three years out of the workforce.
Freedom and autonomy aren’t negative outcomes of the women’s movement, but they are responsibilities.
“I’m not pretending there are simple solutions,” says Bennetts, who believes that being a mom isn’t just about making bologna sandwiches and wiping runny noses; it’s about providing food and shelter. “Having a husband is not enough to make it through unscathed.”
Rebuttal
Bennetts’ book restates the obvious: women who stay home with their kids fall behind their working counterparts financially and professionally. Oh, the horror! One wonders why the numbers of misguided women are increasing. Why does the Bureau of Labor Statistics report that the new century brought a 10% drop — the first decline ever - in workplace participation among new moms? Why are one-third of women with MBA’s not working full time, compared to just 5 percent of their male counterparts?
Jill Savage, the founder of the 100,000-member group Hearts at Home and author of Professionalizing Motherhood, points out that there’s only one reason most women stay home: because they’ve made a conscious decision to prioritize “the emotional needs of their children” over their careers. As Savage pointed out in an interview, Bennetts’ book almost preys upon women’s fear to keep them in work, “making fear a priority instead of the needs of their children.” It is legitimate to recognize the risk that a spouse may die or the marriage may end, but should any parent choose to miss some of their kids’ childhood out of fear?
Look, I understand the working mother’s intense desire to seize on any data that appears to show daycare doesn’t hurt kids. As a working mom, I feel it myself! But anyone looking at the data honestly can see that a purely positive view is wishful thinking. The research is not a wash: it clearly shows that it’s just better for kids to not be in daycare all day. In fact, the largest and most comprehensive study done on the subject — appearing in the March/April 2007 edition of the Child Development Journal — demonstrates that kids in daycare from early childhood are more aggressive and disobedient, regardless of the childcare quality. And a 2005 British study found that toddlers cared for by a mother fared best.
Every family is in a different situation, and many parents must work and try to find the best child-care situation they can. Its not that children in daycare will be irretrievably damaged, but we do need to recognize that the moms who stay home with their children are making a huge investment in the future of our country, and they should never be criticized for it.
Comments
By Archie
April 16, 2007 8:34 AM | Link to this
The research is not a wash: it clearly shows that it’s just better for kids to not be in daycare all day
I disagree with Shanti on that statement. I have read articles to the contrary and my own experience is that nothing horrible happens to kids in daycare behavior-wise. My answer is yes to the topic question but it’s a choice that women make.
By lovelyliz
April 16, 2007 9:15 AM | Link to this
Lesson to stay at home mothers:
Unless your husband is wealthy or you/he comes from a family that will step up IF he steps out, given today’s divorce statistics you will probably be better off financially, working in some capacity. Every divorced parent I know, and I know a lot, has had problems with child support payment coming on time and in full amounts. That’s not to say that the non-custodial parent is evil, but who cares about valid excuses when the mortgage is due and you have to eat? The wages you will make after being out of the job market for years are not likely to give your family the same standard of living.
By chuck
April 16, 2007 9:18 AM | Link to this
Not this topic AGAIN!!!!!??!!
This is probably the 5th time in the last 3 years that they have written a version of this topic. The short answer is….
Drum roll please…
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!
They are well ahead of their employed counterparts. First, there is no more important profession than being a parent to your children. Women who choose to do this are rewarded far beyond whatever financial benefits they forego. The happiest, most well-adjusted children I know are those who have full-time stay-at-home MOMS.
My wife stayed at home after our children were born until my youngest reached 13 years old. She doesn’t regret one minute of it. In fact, now that my oldest is attending college and gone most of the time, she wishes she had had MORE time with them…AND, so do I.
My wife teaches now and thoroughly enjoys it, but we lived fine without her income…though having it now that we have older more expensive children is nice.
By Jema
April 16, 2007 9:21 AM | Link to this
I’ve always had to work or choice to work because as a single mother it’s imperative that I have a financial portfolio and money in the bank in order to maintain my household, ensure my child needs and it gives me something I’m passionate about to do which ultimately makes me a better mother…
I continue to explore opportunities that will allow me to experience my life.
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By chuck
April 16, 2007 9:37 AM | Link to this
Sorry Jemma. I’d rather not promote SINGLE motherhood. I have no idea what your circumstances are and you may be single through no fault of your own (widowed for example), but if that is not the case, (and most likely it isn’t) then I have to wonder how “SAVVY” you are to put yourself in that position by divorcing or fooling around prior to marriage.
By comp133xi7y
April 16, 2007 10:27 AM | Link to this
In Chuck’s fantasy world, no husbands up-and-leave their wives for a younger woman, leaving behind a woman who has devoted her life to caring for that husband and their children and now finds herself virtually destitute and with no marketable skills.
This isn’t to say that this always happens - only that sometimes it happens. While Chuck must enjoy the simplicity of his black-and-white world, unfortunately - or maybe fortunately - the actual, real world isn’t nearly so simple or cut-and-dried.
Sorry, Jemma - Chuck has spoken. If you are a single mother, it is probably your own damn fault. You must be an evil harlot who has brought this all on herself. Such is the measure of Chuck’s compassion - he has none.
By Monica
April 16, 2007 11:14 AM | Link to this
Of course it’s a risk. What in life is not a risk? Deciding to have children is a risk. Changing jobs is a risk. Heck, driving on 285 in Atlanta is a risk.
In my opinion, it’s a risk worth taking, if you are able. We did not plan for me to stay home, and we weren’t planning on having a baby when we did. Financially, we couldn’t afford for me to stay home.
I would like to present a contradiction to Shaunti’s daycare statistics. My first child was in day care from 4 months old until he went to Pre-K (with the exception of summer time, since I am a teacher). He is a happy, well-adjusted child with no signs of aggressive behavior. My second son was in daycare for a little more than a year before my mother-in-law kept him. He, too, is a happy, well-adjusted child, but he is more aggressive and is more disobedient than his brother was at the same age. Perhaps that is because he is the second child? I am a subscriber to the birth order theories (I would venture to guess that many women stay at home with the first child, but when baby number 2 comes along, they can’t afford to. Maybe those daycare statistics are the results of a majority of second-born children being in daycare; ergo, daycare isn’t the reason for their behavior).
I guess I am being defensive beacause I feel guilty about working and not staying home. I also think that the quality of care children receive from their parents is important. I know many stay-at-home moms who neglect their children so that they can maintain a spotless house, host their little bunco and bridge parties while the children have “play dates,” and push their precious cargo in strollers around the shopping mall while they meet with other stay-at-home moms to look for the new vase to go in the foyer. (Do I sound bitter?) :)
There are many mothers who stay at home and truly put the needs of their children first, and they financially sacrifice. But the others that I know are too self-absorbed to do so and are fortunate to have family money or husbands with hefty incomes.
Chuck, the many single moms I know didn’t choose that lifestyle; they lost their husbands to death or divorce. They definitely deserve high praise.
Sorry for the long post!
By comp133xi7y
April 16, 2007 11:31 AM | Link to this
Monica, do the single moms who didn’t lose husbands to death or divorce not deserve single praise? There are plenty of reasons why a single woman would choose to get pregnant and most of them don’t revolve around getting more checks from the state. There are even plenty of single moms who became pregnant accidentally. Do they deserve to be scorned and ignored for the rest of their lives because they made a mistake?
Catch-22, much? The woman is damned if she has an abortion or she’s damned if she decides to raise it becuase she must have been a w******* to have it in the first place.
By BURNESTA-BAILEY
April 16, 2007 11:32 AM | Link to this
Abanamat! In vina veritas! 119 Array
By Mara
April 16, 2007 11:39 AM | Link to this
(sigh) I have to agree with chuck on one thing…this topic as stale, stale, stale. On the rest of his post, not so much.
By CARA
April 16, 2007 11:51 AM | Link to this
Abanamat! In vina veritas! 119 Array
By Teamwork
April 16, 2007 11:55 AM | Link to this
While it’s never wrong for teammates in a marriage to assume different roles, great care must be taken by both parties in the stay-at-home-mom situation to avoid a power imbalance based on who’s bringing home the paycheck. Negative emotions can creep in on both the man and woman in the form “I’m not being appreciated here”. If dealt with candidly and honestly, such difficulties can be resolved amicably. Unfortunately, strong emotions often lead us to revert to childhood patterns of dealing with problems, such as the familiar Victim/Rescuer/Persecutor game played in many households.
By Teamwork
April 16, 2007 11:57 AM | Link to this
Ultimately, our children learn through observation and emulation, not so much by what we say. In that way, the “Pig Parent” syndrome is passed down from generation to generation.
By Monica
April 16, 2007 11:57 AM | Link to this
Comp133,
No, I meant single moms in general. Sorry!
By Francis_Cameron
April 16, 2007 11:58 AM | Link to this
Abanamat! In vina veritas! 119 Array
By Teamwork
April 16, 2007 12:01 PM | Link to this
chuck may be interested to know that the “Pig Parent” in us often manifests itself through religious condemnation of others. Are you sure you had completely loving, psychologically healthy parents, chuck? It’s no shame if you didn’t, BTW. But just remember, such condemnation doesn’t come from a good place, as much as you tell yourself it does.
By NetBanker
April 16, 2007 12:04 PM | Link to this
I’m not sure that I get Shaunti’s point on this topic since I think I’m hearing her agree that women do risk financial and working future. Her point seems to be wrapped in the question of “should any parent choose to miss some of their kids’ childhood out of fear?
I grew up in a home with a stay-at-home mom until I was in the 3rd grade. At that point my mother returned to the workforce part time and was one of the few working mothers in our neighborhood. For my mother financial fear wasn’t a factor ion her decision, but instead it was about not wasting her education and feeling like a productive member of society.
I certainly don’t recall any negative feelings about my mother returning to the work force and based on my conversations with her it was the best thing for our family. My mother is very intelligent and was bored as a stay-at-home mom. As she pointed out once both my brother and I were in school all day she had little to do on a daily basis to keep the home fires burning. There is only so much laundry and cleaning that needs to be done every day. Having dinner on the table at 5:30pm was her only daily chore once we were up and off to school. As we got older she went to work full time and we took on more responsibilities around the house for chores.
I truly believe that for most families when the kids go to school full time there is a diminished return to the family from having a stay-at-home mother.
Its not that children in daycare will be irretrievably damaged, but we do need to recognize that the moms who stay home with their children are making a huge investment in the future of our country Just a quick thought on this statement…it would seem to assume that the mom is equipped and/or motivated to expose their child to activities and situations that will prepare them for school. I’ll venture a guess that a kid in daycare with a full time working mother is better off than being with a stay-at-home mother who uses TV to entertain the kids and does few activities with them. Think some of the Nanny 9-1-1 shows with the bored children out of control while them mom sits by helpless because she doesn’t know what to do.
By Teamwork
April 16, 2007 12:04 PM | Link to this
My guess is that of all the bloggers here, Monica had caring parents.
By Teamwork
April 16, 2007 12:08 PM | Link to this
Well, maybe NetB also. He seems well-adjusted for being a gay man.
By 1940s topic
April 16, 2007 12:10 PM | Link to this
The real question is, do stay-at-home DADS risk their futures by opting out of the rat race?
This topic is offensive. It’s not a rat race, it’s survival.
Is a more than 50% chance of ending up in poverty worth staying at home being a full time parent? Is having a more than 50% chance of ending up in run down housing raising 3 kids while you work at a fast food joint worth not building a stable good paying career? A good career also means good health coverage instead of the free clinic - & guess who has to pay for THAT?
There’s a MUCH MUCH higher chance a woman will end up divorced left to do it all. A woman that does not educate herself & build a career is a fool.
By Teamwork
April 16, 2007 12:12 PM | Link to this
Gotta run, but some of the ladies here might check into the Victim/Rescuer/Persecutor game dynamics. That’s what leads to abusive situations, even rape.
By Mara
April 16, 2007 12:13 PM | Link to this
Shaunti admits that women who choose to stay home with the kids “fall behind their working counterparts financially and professionally”. She then posits that those who don’t are ruled by fear. Fear that “a spouse may die or the marriage may end”. I don’t know that fear is as much an impetus as reality is. Considering the divorce statistic, the amount of child support in arrears, and the FACT that single mothers (for whatever reason) are more likely to be impoverished than their wedded counterparts, make pragmatism a more likely cause for women to work than fear of losing a husband. Isn’t it ANY parents job to try to ensure that regardless of future misfortune, they would be able to house, clothe, and feed their children? IMO it is irresponsible for any adult to be completely dependant on anothers generosity or sense of responsibility.
By Teamwork
April 16, 2007 12:20 PM | Link to this
Personal question, Mara. You’ve stated that you’re happy and satisfied w/o kids, yet occasionally I hear some small regrets from you, mostly in the form of feeling judged for not being a mom. Still no chance for you to be a mom? I think you would be a great one, BTW.
By janette
April 16, 2007 12:22 PM | Link to this
Of course they do! Life is full of compromises! It is always the question of what you personally want for your children and your life. You don’t have to be a woman to have to make these choices.
By Mara
April 16, 2007 12:24 PM | Link to this
Net - it would seem to assume that the mom is equipped and/or motivated to expose their child to activities and situations that will prepare them for school
There was an article in the WaPo last week about a mentoring program for children who came into the public school system completely unprepared to learn. Kindergarteners and first graders who didn’t know their ABC’s, how to count, shapes, etc. Many in this demographic come from poor households where one or both parents are unemployed (a non-voluntary stay-at-home parent if you will). Having a parent at home does not ensure that the child has quality interaction with them. It is the quality of the interaction, not just the quantity, that’s important.
but that’s kinda off topic :^)
By NetBanker
April 16, 2007 12:25 PM | Link to this
Well, maybe NetB also. He seems well-adjusted for being a gay man. Hmmmmm….so does that mean that I wouldn’t be considered well-adjusted if I was a straight man?
Abanamat! In vina veritas! I chuckle every time I see this stupid post because it strikes me as a Harry Potter-esque spell. I’m not sure about the first word, but the second part seems to be indicating ‘Truth in Wine.’
By GrannyAtl
April 16, 2007 12:34 PM | Link to this
Isn’t that sweet ! ANOTHER SHOOTER.
People stop raising your boys to be criminals.
By Teamwork
April 16, 2007 12:34 PM | Link to this
Hmmmmm….so does that mean that I wouldn’t be considered well-adjusted if I was a straight man?
Didn’t mean it that way, Net. My point is that being gay presents a special challenge in our society, and you have met that challenge well. Were your parents supportive of your “orientation”? Many of my gay friends report horrific home situations.
In weeda veritas!
By Teamwork
April 16, 2007 12:39 PM | Link to this
P.S. Net, sounds a little like your partner likes to play a few games with his refusal to take good care of himself. Are you playing the Rescuer role? I fell into that trap for many years,until I figured out that “No good deed goes unpunished.”
In other words, Victims don’t really want to be rescued. Remember Jack’s story of how he was arrested for intervening in a situation in which a woman was being assaulted? The way out is to be honest and reject the roles, but seems hard to maintain.
By lurkergrl
April 16, 2007 12:42 PM | Link to this
Granny how much you wanna bet somebody here is going to blame working mother’s?
Why are guys always going on shooting sprees when they are depressed or something?
By Teamwork
April 16, 2007 12:42 PM | Link to this
Personally, I had the “traditional” home training—Victim Mom, Persecutor Dad. How lovely!
By MrRogers
April 16, 2007 12:42 PM | Link to this
There goes the neighborhood.
By Lyrazel
April 16, 2007 12:47 PM | Link to this
I hope we dont drag the discussion into MORALITY of single parenting. Its been done and everyone concludes there are some who choose and some who have parenthood thrust upon them as the sole supporter. Both sexes apply.
As a small business owner, I know first hand the disadvantages of hiring a single parent.They have no one else to fill-in when their child is sick, or when a child needs transportation from/to school or for a child’s extra activities during work hours. They are frequently absent, have more sick days than dual-parent or single no-kid people and are unreliable if overtime is needed or if scheduling changes conflict with school/daycare. Its NOT that they are bad workers (heck no!) its just they come expecting business owners to tolerate absences because its part of parenting and because they have a kid they are somehow special. While many large corporations can offer flex hours few small businesses can—small business owners are unable to retain unreliable employees. Small businesses typically cannot offer total coverage affordable insurance and are severely hurt when their employees are just gone for a day.
Opting out of the employment market at a any age means less pay when the inevitable return occurs. Employers always ask: When did you leave your last position? Inevitably if ANYONE remains out of the job market for 13+ years (as Chuck’s love + steady support helped his wife do) few of their past employers would even look at their resume. Single parents returning need to work have be current in their field—education, electronics, stock trading, law, etc. The cocoon of being isolated with a baby keeps many from scholarship, updating and going beyond where they were. Sure they might know all the verses to 60 Ways To Change A Diaper but does it matter in business? NO!!
Even if you are married and supported or single while you are at home my advice is simple: get a higher degree than you had before leaving the workplace. Keep up with technology and don’t expect any employer to train you. Most of all kiss any delusion that you are going to jump back in and earn as much as you once did. You have been replaced. Its a wolf-eat-dog world and truth is nobody is special.
By Teamwork
April 16, 2007 12:50 PM | Link to this
But I believe in hope, for all of us. Love to all…….
By NetBanker
April 16, 2007 12:50 PM | Link to this
Hey Mara! ~waving~
I think that point is extremely on topic…especially since Monica brought it up also and she’s a teacher. I think there is an assumption on the part of Shaunti and most conservatives (including Chuck) that having a stay-at-home mom is more important than the quality of time spent with mom. Even having a mother who didn’t work until I was older my brother and I both went to Nursery School and Pre-K programs at our church. While my mother is an RN and has an advanced cardiac care nursing degree from Hopkins she recognized that she didn’t know squat about early childhood learning. Not only did Nursery and Pre-K give her a little much needed free time from caring for small children, but we were exposed to classroom settings and provided the basis for learning numbers and the alphabet and writing that my parents continued to foster at home.
In the Post article you mention most of the children are from poor household, but I don’t think that wealth is any great indicator of being a good at home mom either. Clients of my partner would be a case study for that! The mother has a masters degree from Harvard, dropped out of the work force (hubby makes big bucks and she comes from BIG family money) yet their 3 children are out of control brats who are all in counseling for emotional issues.
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By Grant
April 16, 2007 1:00 PM | Link to this
Or you could take the approach of not defending your choice either way. I don’t care what anyone thinks of how we choose to raise our children. No book, blogger, study etc, are going to sway me either way. Our job as parents (married, single, same sex) is to the best to raise these little people the best we can. Period. End of story.
By Mara
April 16, 2007 1:19 PM | Link to this
Net - I agree that economic class will not determine the quality of the stay-at-home parent. Why, then, do you suppose that children from poor households seem to be more likely to need remedial help? Too much TV and not enough Little Golden Books? Monica, chuck…any thoughts?
BTW, I’m boycotting the phrase “stay-at-home mom” because as Lyrazel stated, anyone out of the market for 13+ years is going to be adversely affected, unless that 13 years is used to improve ones education. I wouldn’t wonder that a man out of work for that long and citing his “stay-a-home fathering” might have an even harder time finding employment afterwards.
By Gregor Mendel
April 16, 2007 1:24 PM | Link to this
Net - I agree that economic class will not determine the quality of the stay-at-home parent. Why, then, do you suppose that children from poor households seem to be more likely to need remedial help? Too much TV and not enough Little Golden Books? Monica, chuck…any thoughts?
Think about it, Mara. In poor homes, you have both poor genetics AND poor life-training skills. It may be cruel to mention genetics, but would be foolish to overlook.
By Monica
April 16, 2007 1:32 PM | Link to this
*Why, then, do you suppose that children from poor households seem to be more likely to need remedial help? *
Well…I had a pediatrician who once told me, “Brains and good looks beget brains and good looks.” Might be politically “un-correct” (to quote Gretchen Wilson) to make such a statement, but genetics and SES do play a part. Lack of exposure also is to blame - poor kids don’t get to go to the zoo, aquarium, Fernbank, etc. Many of them don’t watch Barney either!
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April 16, 2007 1:34 PM | Link to this
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By Peachy
April 16, 2007 1:37 PM | Link to this
I say no, as long as they keep things in perspective. If you are a SAHM with a MBA, great, you can probably jump back in anytime - just keep your computer skills brushed up. If you don’t have a degree, it might behoove you to start at the bottom - a bank teller or receptionist, for example - and move your way up. That’s what my mom did, and it took her very little time to go from receptionist to web master, and she trained herself on the web stuff!
I am a working married mom of a 2yo and I don’t regret sending my daughter to “school” every day, since she’s going to a place where she can focus on learning and interacting with other children her age, and that’s not something I can really offer her at home. That’s why I am so glad that many people have pointed out that it’s the QUALITY of time you spend with your kids and not the QUANTITY of time. I work M-F 9-5 and I live 4 mi from her daycare and my office, so I’m very blessed in that regard. I spend lots of quality time playing, singing, and reading with her, but I’m happy with the balance we’ve created.
I just don’t want anyone to think I have a bunch of fancy degrees that my parents paid for and everything was given to me by my parents. My husband and I were poor (total gross income less than 40k) only 4 years ago, and now at 24 and 25 years old, we have life insurance, good credit, and real careers - all without a degree between us. It is possible to do this - you just have to be resourceful. Both my and his full-time working parents taught us each that.
Sorry for the long post.
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By PointyStick
April 16, 2007 1:37 PM | Link to this
~ poor genetics AND poor life-training skills ~
don’t take the bait. don’t take the bait. don’t take the bait. don’t take the bait.
By Gregor Mendel
April 16, 2007 1:39 PM | Link to this
After great scientific inquiry, however, I have concluded that Monica has both “Brains and Good Looks”—er, I mean good genetics. ; > }
By Gregor Mendel
April 16, 2007 1:41 PM | Link to this
don’t take the bait. don’t take the bait. don’t take the bait. don’t take the bait.
C’mon, you know you can’t resist….
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By lurkergrl
April 16, 2007 1:44 PM | Link to this
The radio just stated that the shooter was looking for his girlfriend. Another loser guy who’s girlfriend was trying to break up with his sorry asss I bet. Another loser guy who handles it by killing.
What is wrong with guys? Yea girls can be a pain & immature but we don’t go around killing people. Now they’re talking about gun availability. Guns don’t kill people, GUYS DO.
By Gregor Mendel
April 16, 2007 1:44 PM | Link to this
Anyone want to bet that NetB has good genes as well? I’ve only seen him through the holes in his fence, but he’s a good-looking guy!
By Gregor Mendel
April 16, 2007 1:49 PM | Link to this
Yea girls can be a pain & immature but we don’t go around killing people. Now they’re talking about gun availability.
lurkergirl, if you really want to understand the dynamics of violence, pick up a copy of “Scripts People Live” by Claude Steiner. You’re welcome to put the entire blame for violence at the feet of the man, but all you will do is reinforce the negative stereotypes you have apparently chosen to believe. It takes two to tango. And while women aren’t usually physically violent (actually, I was attakced by a woman before), they can be emotionally violent, which is sometimes worse.
By It_Is_Genetics
April 16, 2007 1:51 PM | Link to this
It is Genetics.
Georgia started as a penal colony, Alabama and Mississippi got a lot of the Move West, Young Man offshoots.
Louisian used as a dumping ground by the French for criminals and prostitutes, before the Louisiana Purchase. And don’t forgot all those Acadians.
Australia started as a penal colony.
Enough said with those three.
It’s Genetics.
By Gregor Mendel
April 16, 2007 1:55 PM | Link to this
And if any of you ladies feel bad that you are smaller and likely to be bullied at some point in your lives, remember that in many species, the female is larger, more dominant, and more violent than their male counterparts. Rabbits are a good example of that. My female regularly whips up on the male.
By Gregor Mendel
April 16, 2007 1:57 PM | Link to this
Louisian used as a dumping ground by the French for criminals and prostitutes, before the Louisiana Purchase. And don’t forgot all those Acadians.
Good point—Apparently you remember all the losers who didn’t have enough sense to leave town before the hurricane hit a few years ago.
By Gregor Mendel
April 16, 2007 1:59 PM | Link to this
Georgia started as a penal colony, Alabama and Mississippi got a lot of the Move West, Young Man offshoots.
And we better not start on the deficiencies of Southerners. I’ll only get myself into trouble…..
Just kidding, Southerners. If the truth be known , Southern women are far more attractive on average than Yankee girls.
By Mara
April 16, 2007 1:59 PM | Link to this
Monica, considering that I come from an impoverished background I really feel that the issue of a “genetic predisposition” to poorness is sort of offensive. You could be right, but still…
By Gregor Mendel
April 16, 2007 2:03 PM | Link to this
Monica, considering that I come from an impoverished background I really feel that the issue of a “genetic predisposition” to poorness is sort of offensive. You could be right, but still…
Mara, all poor people don’t have poor genetics. Many simply had poor life-training as children. My Dad was both a math genius AND an exceptional athlete. Due to a self-defeating script in life, however, he never amounted to much, and died young.
By Gregor Mendel
April 16, 2007 2:06 PM | Link to this
I can tell that you have good genes, Mara. You’re extremely intelligent, and the word on the street is that you’re pretty sexy in a “kitten-cute” kind of way.
By lurkergrl
April 16, 2007 2:07 PM | Link to this
Gregor what in the world are you talking about? Nothing any girl could do would cause anybody to go on a shooting rampage.
I’m reinforcing negative stereotypes? Turn on the news. Another GUY going on a shooting rampage NOT a girl, a GUY. ANOTHER ONE. It doesn’t take two to tango what does that mean? His girlfriend upset him so she’s partly responsible for him killing 20 people? Was his girlfriend emotionally violent to him & that made him do it? No, it’s just another guy murdering again which is not a stereotype it’s a fact. I don’t need to read a book to know most guys are dangerous. Hey are we going to have to go through metal detectors in every building now on campus? Thanks a lot my tuition is high enough.
By Gregor Mendel
April 16, 2007 2:14 PM | Link to this
I’m reinforcing negative stereotypes? Turn on the news. Another GUY going on a shooting rampage NOT a girl, a GUY. ANOTHER ONE. It doesn’t take two to tango what does that mean? His girlfriend upset him so she’s partly responsible for him killing 20 people? Was his girlfriend emotionally violent to him & that made him do it? No, it’s just another guy murdering again which is not a stereotype it’s a fact. I don’t need to read a book to know most guys are dangerous. Hey are we going to have to go through metal detectors in every building now on campus? Thanks a lot my tuition is high enough.
I can see you’ve been trained well in negative scripting, lurkergirl. Again, you have a choice here. If you start with the premise that men are irrevocably evil, my guess is that your view will be reinforced whenever you hear about violence in the news. If you start from the point of view that good people can go sour, you might have a chance at psychological health.
By Lyrazel
April 16, 2007 2:22 PM | Link to this
Its not genetics OR money. A good parent is a person who can look beyond the mirror of self involvement and actually raise their children. Far too many parents don’t take the time or have the gumption to raise their children because of needs, guilty pleasures, indulgence so they let society or government raise their kids. If their stress is too hard they just ignore the kid until the kid is dead, locked up or profoundly over-medicated. Too many self-centered people begetting is the problem…
Oglethorpe, along with other military men on the Prison Discipline Committee, witnessed first-hand the atrocities of both the Fleet and Marshalsea Debtors Prisons.Oglethorpe created a charter for the new colony named Georgia (in honor of King George II). The grant included all land between the Altamaha and Savannah Rivers and from the headwaters of these rivers to the “south seas.” Oglethorpe used his connections and the king signed it on June 9, 1732. When time came to choose the men and women who would establish the new colony none were from debtors prison because enough non-debtor colonists were found.
By Gregor Mendel
April 16, 2007 2:22 PM | Link to this
Be honest, lurkergirl—when you want to “persecute” your guy because you’re upset or angry, what methods do you use? Don’t play innocent and claim you don’t get your revenge when upset. I’ve been around too long to believe that one.
By Gregor Mendel
April 16, 2007 2:26 PM | Link to this
Oops—gotta run again. Sweetie’s beating up Boo-Boo again. So don’t feel too bad, ladies. You all have a lot of power over your man, even if only emotionally. Sorry some of you have to take physical beatings at times. That’s always wrong, I’ve never agreed with it.
By lurkergrl
April 16, 2007 2:28 PM | Link to this
Gregor you’re acting like another stupid guy. Grow up. It’s not easy to like guys half the time. I mean what’s the deal girls don’t going around doing all this stupid stuff. Nobody in my dorm has been arrested but I know personally a lot of guys that have already been in jail & they laugh about it. I don’t think it’s funny at all.
By Lyrazel
April 16, 2007 2:29 PM | Link to this
Go back to your pea plants Mendel. We have been around longer than thee.
By Gregor Mendel
April 16, 2007 2:29 PM | Link to this
Lyrazel, what type of small business do you run? I think all small business owners have a spiritual connection of sorts. Kind of like going through a war together, you think? That’s why I ignore much of the whining coming from those who go the corporate route. Want to find out what stress is really about? Open a small business, and rubber will hit the road in no time.
By Monica
April 16, 2007 2:32 PM | Link to this
Mara, not what I meant! I’m sorry! I meant that two people with an IQ of 80 are more than likely going to produce children with an IQ of 80, and that many people who have a lower IQ will have lower income because they don’t have a post-secondary education for the business world. I realize that that demographic only accounts for some, and those are the students who usually need remediation. I realize that many live on a less than modest income, yet have “good genes” and are very intelligent (as are you). I didn’t mean to offend. :(
By LilyAllens_SMILE
April 16, 2007 2:32 PM | Link to this
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At first when I see you cry (When I see you cry) It makes me smile (It makes me smile) Yeah it makes me smile (Yeah it makes me smile) At worst I feel bad for a while (I feel bad for a while) But then I just smile (But then I just smile) I go ahead and smile (I go ahead and smile)
By Gregor Mendel
April 16, 2007 2:33 PM | Link to this
Gregor you’re acting like another stupid guy. Grow up. It’s not easy to like guys half the time.
Honey, I pray you figure it all out before it’s too late for you. Maybe you just prefer the company of women. That’s cool. But I’m telling you, your view about men is skewed, and you’re going to get yourself in trouble by playing the Victim game if you’re not careful. No one is evil here,not men or women.
By Gregor Mendel
April 16, 2007 2:38 PM | Link to this
Of course, we all can’t be as lucky as Monica. What a hottie!
By lurkergrl
April 16, 2007 2:38 PM | Link to this
Gregor, What are you talking about you sound like a 2 year old are you in prison or something? What has getting even with a bad BF has to do with guys getting upset & killing people? Or some guy that can’t get a date going to some mall & killing complete strangers?
Have to go, now we have some big meeting, probably about safety or some SH!! and why? because GUYS ARE DANGEROUS.
By Gregor Mendel
April 16, 2007 2:42 PM | Link to this
because GUYS ARE DANGEROUS.
If it’s ok, I’m going to pray for you, lurkergirl. I have a bad feeling you’re going to get hurt one day.
By Gregor Mendel
April 16, 2007 2:46 PM | Link to this
are you in prison or something?
I have seen the inside of a few police stations in my day, but not for hitting women.
By SmartOneThere
April 16, 2007 2:46 PM | Link to this
you sound like a 2 year old
Smart woman, that lurkergrl.
By chuck
April 16, 2007 2:52 PM | Link to this
So teamwork, your mother must have been a downright LOSER…at least that’s what I would say if I was one to talk about people’s PARENTS, butthole. For your information I lost my Mother less than a month ago and if you were standing in front of me I’d probably kick your little narrow behind.
If I had to guess, I’d say you were raised by wild DOGS.
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By dellpbaker715
April 16, 2007 2:58 PM | Link to this
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By Gregor Mendel
April 16, 2007 2:59 PM | Link to this
So teamwork, your mother must have been a downright LOSER…at least that’s what I would say if I was one to talk about people’s PARENTS, butthole. For your information I lost my Mother less than a month ago and if you were standing in front of me I’d probably kick your little narrow behind.
chuck, I didn’t insult your parents. And I am very sorry for the loss of your Mom. My point is that our parents often struggle as people themselves, which is very confusing to children.
Also, don’t forget, smaller guys can fight pretty good when they’re fast and know what they’re doing. Got a feeling you outwheigh me by about 100 lbs, but that’s not a problem. BTW, I don’t have any real hostility toward you, chuck. You seem to have some toward me in return.
By chuck
April 16, 2007 3:02 PM | Link to this
Dog, my only surprise is that you were attacked by ONLY ONE WOMAN.
By chuck
April 16, 2007 3:09 PM | Link to this
By lurkergrl
Gregor, What are you talking about you sound like a 2 year old are you in prison or something? What has getting even with a bad BF has to do with guys getting upset & killing people? Or some guy that can’t get a date going to some mall & killing complete strangers?
Lurkergirl, you are my NEW HERO. I don’t know how long you have been “lurking”, but you have the dog PEGGED. I’ve got to say thou, in your first couple of posts I was sure youe were KIMBERLY. I may still be right. Either way I loved your post.
By Gregor Mendel
April 16, 2007 3:09 PM | Link to this
Sorry again for the loss of your Mom, chuck. Moms really mean a lot.
By Gregor Mendel
April 16, 2007 3:13 PM | Link to this
Dog, my only surprise is that you were attacked by ONLY ONE WOMAN.
It wasn’t too bad. She slapped me in the face good and took a few swings, but no real tissue damage. All I was trying to do was leave.
I love women, chuck. I’m the one who normally takes the abuse, not the other way around.
By chuck
April 16, 2007 3:13 PM | Link to this
Excuse me dog?
Your exact quote was:
Are you sure you had completely loving, psychologically healthy parents, chuck?
That sounds like an insult to my parents to me, dufus.
By Monica
April 16, 2007 3:14 PM | Link to this
Chuck, I thought lurkergirl was Whiley!
By Gregor Mendel
April 16, 2007 3:15 PM | Link to this
You really ought to experience going to jail, chuck. Quite a liberating experience.
By Mara
April 16, 2007 3:16 PM | Link to this
Monica - don’t feel bad. :^) I knew what you meant, and I have a healthy enough self-image to assume that you couldn’t possibly be talking about me…LOL! I also know enough about genetics to admit that you may have a valid point, which is what makes me uneasy. Eugenics isn’t that far in the past and there are people who think that the stupid shouldn’t breed. Or that the poor shouldn’t be allowed to reproduce unless they can support their children without aid. I know one guy who believes that poor people ONLY have kids so that they can get welfare. head shaking sadly I don’t know…it’s just sad all the way around.
But I really never thought you meant me!! ;^)
By Gregor Mendel
April 16, 2007 3:18 PM | Link to this
in your first couple of posts I was sure youe were KIMBERLY.
You really need to give kimberly more credit, chuck. lurkergirl doesn’t hold a candle to kimberly. In fact, though you like to put her down, kim has more brain and heart than you’ll ever know.
By Ugly Becki
April 16, 2007 3:20 PM | Link to this
Chuck, deepest condolences for your loss. I was NEVER down with the whole SAHM/husband-being-the-sole-breadwinner scenario. I, personally, never had the luxury of using my looks (namely because I have none) to snag a rich guy to take care of me. I was brought up by TWO working parents, they instilled a good Puritan work ethic in me & I’ve always been capable of looking after myself. Good! Because I HAVE to. To me, the man supporting a stay-home wife is legalized prostitution. I would feel guilty not contributing to the household. When some man chooses a woman for being born with a pretty face & “rewards” her by providing for her, what do YOU call it? And what happens when the man dies or leaves the woman, she has kids to support, has never worked a day in her life & she’s now too old & unattractive to hook another rich sucker???
By Gregor Mendel
April 16, 2007 3:22 PM | Link to this
Are you sure you had completely loving, psychologically healthy parents, chuck?
That sounds like an insult to my parents to me, dufus.
It’s not, chuck. We’ve rumbled pretty good on the blog, but I do care what happens to you as a person. Certainly you’ve been able to see my faults, but do you ever see your own? Or maybe you see them so clearly that you’re defensive about them? Many posters other than myself have noticed you are too willing to try to make others feel bad about themselves through the religion crap. I know you’re too smart to believe in fairy tales, so my guess is that your motivation lies elsewhere.
By Disgusted Taxpayer
April 16, 2007 3:27 PM | Link to this
Why would anyone think it’s OK to deliberately have kids if you KNOW you can’t afford to take care of them yourselves without public/govt. assistance? That is selfish, irresponsible & doesn’t provide a quality life or values for the child!
By Gregor Mendel
April 16, 2007 3:29 PM | Link to this
I did learn the hard way not to mess with the cops in Tijuana, though. Besides having to bribe your way out, they like to scare the Gringos by riding you around the bad parts of town.
By Lyrazel
April 16, 2007 3:29 PM | Link to this
Printing. I do not seek spiritual connections in areas where I am concerned about making material profit. I seem to recall that you are now unemployed… Good luck on your return back to the workforce. namu myoho renge kyo, bubba.
By Gregor Mendel
April 16, 2007 3:38 PM | Link to this
namu myoho renge kyo, bubba.
Hey, I used to do that chant with a guy. What religion is that? I forgot.
Well I can see where printing may not be too exciting, but there could be some opportunities for spiritual interactions with the customers. Of course, the advent of better printers for the home computer is killing you guys.
For me, even though I have a mathematical mind, I’ve been called into the healing arts. I know, hard to tell that by my obnoxiousness of the blog. In a clinical setting, however, I am very loving, and was successful as a result. I burned out completely due to all the “psychic wars” that everyone in the healing profession experiences, but hope to get back in the game in a few months. I’ve been restudying math, but frankly, it’s pretty boring.
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By JokesOn
April 16, 2007 3:39 PM | Link to this
Lurker,
If you want to get into stereotyping, why not just report the age/color/income level of the largest percentage of violent offenders as well?
If you think stereotyping the whole male population turns heads, just wait until you apply more limiting areas of demographics. Instead of hitting percentages around 3-5% of males performing violent actions, you could get into the 40-60% range.
Sound inappropriate? Well, there you go.
By Lyrazel
April 16, 2007 3:40 PM | Link to this
I believe in fairy tales.
Dear Disgusted Taxpayer I would rather pay for idiot breeders overpopulating social services than for an idiots’ war that has bankrupt our nation morally and financially. Luckily I will be dead (116) when the tab on this bill comes due for JUST THIS YEARS Iraq engagement. If its one thing Baby Boomers and their spawn know how to do is spend someone else’s money….wink wink.
By Gregor Mendel
April 16, 2007 3:41 PM | Link to this
I do not seek spiritual connections in areas where I am concerned about making material profit.
And I was actually one of the few honest, competent chiropractors in Atlanta. Most are crooks, the rest incompetent. If you guys think I’m hard on y’all, see how I treat other chiros.
By Lyrazel
April 16, 2007 3:41 PM | Link to this
You are a very lonely man, Dog.
By Mara
April 16, 2007 3:42 PM | Link to this
chuck - my only surprise is that you were attacked by ONLY ONE WOMAN
a woman may have been the one commenting, but I’m guessing that it was just another of the funny voices talking back LOL! (but it could have been Whiley as Monica pointed out)…
and besides, the rest of us try to ignore him as much as possible.
By Mara
April 16, 2007 3:45 PM | Link to this
To me, the man supporting a stay-home wife is legalized prostitution
good point. Failure to perform conjugal duties used to be grounds for divorce…
By Gregor Mendel
April 16, 2007 3:47 PM | Link to this
Hey JokesOn—you’re here early this week. Ever tangle with the cops in Tijuana? Those F-ers really did put a scare in me. Must really sick to live there.
Something to think about ladies—You think things are bad here? Try a third world country for a little while. American men are P’s compared to the men in many other parts of the world.
By chuck
April 16, 2007 3:48 PM | Link to this
You could be right Monica. I went back and read and it was actually comp133 that I thought might be Kimberly. We had tests today, so I’ve been reading quickly.
BTW are your kids coming up on their EOCT and HSGT? Good luck on those.
By Gregor Mendel
April 16, 2007 3:49 PM | Link to this
and besides, the rest of us try to ignore him as much as possible.
Yet with little success, because I’ve got every one of you guys “numbers”. Even you, Mara. Lucky I’m a nice guy, or I could really tear some of you apart.
By chuck
April 16, 2007 3:50 PM | Link to this
I understand Mara. Your post reminded me of a scene (maybe Jim Carrey?) where he is beating the crap out of himself.
By Gregor Mendel
April 16, 2007 3:52 PM | Link to this
You are a very lonely man, Dog.
Thank you for your concern, Lyrazel. I actually have many nice friends, but no good girlfriends right now. Just a few “leftovers” from my crazy days, but who wants “leftovers”?
I gotta feeling, however, that this may be the year…..
By chuck
April 16, 2007 3:53 PM | Link to this
Lucky? Yep, that’s what I think every time I read one of your asinine posts.
By Gregor Mendel
April 16, 2007 3:57 PM | Link to this
You could be right Monica. I went back and read and it was actually comp133 that I thought might be Kimberly.
So, what’s the obsession with kimberly, chuck? I thought you were a happily married man? I think she’s got your number as well.
By Gregor Mendel
April 16, 2007 3:58 PM | Link to this
Lucky? Yep, that’s what I think every time I read one of your asinine posts.
No problem chuck. I recognize low self-esteem when I see it. You can put me down if it makes you feel better.
By Mara
April 16, 2007 3:59 PM | Link to this
Why would anyone think it’s OK to deliberately have kids if you KNOW you can’t afford to take care of them yourselves without public/govt. assistance
Deliberately? According to my aquaintance, it’s because they are too lazy to work and every new kid they have gives them “X” amount of new welfare dollars.
On the other hand, some folks say poor people shouldn’t be having sex at all, since they can’t afford to raise any possible offspring. Would you favor federally funded birth-control, family planning classes, and abortions-on-demand instead? It’s cheaper to help women manage their reproductive options than it is to raise an unplanned baby. So…prudish morality or compassionate pragmatism?
Quittin’ time!! C-ya all!!
By Gregor Mendel
April 16, 2007 4:01 PM | Link to this
Your post reminded me of a scene (maybe Jim Carrey?) where he is beating the crap out of himself.
You might check into the life story of Jim Carrey even if you don’t care for his brand of comedy. Hint: he was homeless as a teen. I don’t care for his work overall, but was very moved by his performance in “Man on the Moon”, i.e. the movie about Andy Kauffman.
By HesWacked
April 16, 2007 4:05 PM | Link to this
I recognize low self-esteem when I see it.
Everytime he looks in the mirror.
By Grannyatl
April 16, 2007 4:15 PM | Link to this
Something to think about ladies—You think things are bad here? Try a third world country for a little while. American men are P’s compared to the men in many other parts of the world.
And in those countries men there are no better than scum. They are the very reason everyday life in those countries is bad for all living there. I’m in agreement that the best places to live are ones that the men there are more civilized all around. By far those places are in the nicer areas, which is the very reason women must be able to support themselves with a nice salary. No one wants to live in crime areas.
I’m getting the feeling that you are proud of defending these horrible acts committed by men.
By Gregor Mendel
April 16, 2007 4:24 PM | Link to this
I’m getting the feeling that you are proud of defending these horrible acts committed by men.
Not at all, Granny. But like Jack, I also learned the hard way about intervening in abusive situations. You see, as part of their “Victim” training, women are taught to never take responsibility for their part of the “Dance”.
The bottom line is that the problem of domestic violence involves two people, not just one. But as long as women get benefits from playing the Victim role, nothing is going to change.
By Gregor Mendel
April 16, 2007 4:27 PM | Link to this
FYI, I’ve played all three roles in relationships—Victim, Rescuer, and Persecutor. None of the roles really suited me, except maybe the Rescuer role. On a few rare occasions, I have hooked up with ladies who didn’t play games,and it was great!
By JokesOn
April 16, 2007 4:31 PM | Link to this
Grannyatl,
Tell me why you refuse to put more restrictions on your vilification?
You cannot back that up, or can you?
By Grannyatl
April 16, 2007 4:34 PM | Link to this
You see, as part of their “Victim” training, women are taught to never take responsibility for their part of the “Dance”.
Sweety those are the words abusers use. It’s not my fault, it’s not his fault, a woman drove me do it. Domestic violence is not a dance, there is never a reason to beat or kill anybody unless it is in self defense only. There is no such thing as playing the victim role. Being open & honest about abuse is not playing the victim.
What blame do you put on women when men go on shootings? When they kill in the workplace? When they molest?
By NetBanker
April 16, 2007 4:36 PM | Link to this
Its not genetics OR money. A good parent is a person who can look beyond the mirror of self involvement and actually raise their children.
I think Lyrazel has nailed it!
It seems as though scholarship isn’t quite as respected in our nation as it has been in the past. It used to be that even though one was not learned the desire to have one’s children educated was strong and a major life goal or achievement. I suggest that if one looks at communities which highly value education one will find successful people or a people on the economic rise. The mindset of the importance of education appears to have been trumped in our society by making being smart uncool or unpopular. Combine that kind of mindset with a cycle of teens having children who go on to be teens having children and it’s very easy to see why children from poor homes come unprepared for school and will likely perpetuate the cycle.
By Gregor Mendel
April 16, 2007 4:39 PM | Link to this
Sweety those are the words abusers use. It’s not my fault, it’s not his fault, a woman drove me do it. Domestic violence is not a dance, there is never a reason to beat or kill anybody unless it is in self defense only. There is no such thing as playing the victim role. Being open & honest about abuse is not playing the victim.
Granny, I wish there were hope for you, but all your talk about “blaming” women tips your hand. Reread my posts. I have never said that women alone were the cause of domestic violence. My postulate is that it’s a shared problem involving unnecessary behavior on the part of both parties. But as soon as I mention “shared responsibility”, you and all the other women freak out and claim I’m blaming the woman.
By Gregor Mendel
April 16, 2007 4:41 PM | Link to this
But since the problem of domestic violence could be easily solved, yet it’s not, tells me that there apparently is a reward for both parties.
So let me talk straight to you Granny: Grow up! Your measly whining is getting on my nerves. (How’s that? Sound more like your household now?)
By Gregor Mendel
April 16, 2007 4:45 PM | Link to this
The mindset of the importance of education appears to have been trumped in our society by making being smart uncool or unpopular. Combine that kind of mindset with a cycle of teens having children who go on to be teens having children and it’s very easy to see why children from poor homes come unprepared for school and will likely perpetuate the cycle.
If you want to go deeper, NetB, consider the fact that many children fail in school not due to any mental limitation, but due to a poor attitude toward learning. The unhappy parents out there teach their kids that thinking about problems and actually solving them is bad. Just look at how much the women on this blog whine about domestic violence, but are unwilling to think about their part of the problem.
When you don’t want to take responsibility, just “say no” to thinking.
By Nikita
April 16, 2007 4:46 PM | Link to this
A couple of things… a) The study that Shaunti is referencing found a slight discrepancy in behavior for all children who spent a significant amount of time with anyone but their mothers. Including dads and grandparents.
b)Shaunti’s argument is fine and dandy for middle- or upper-class women whose marriages never break up, but unfortunately that is a small portion of the population. In a corollary, I’m tired of the so-called “opt-out revolution” and other middle- and upper-class women publishing books which purport to make their experience a universal one. We as a society have little respect for lower-class moms and single moms who don’t work, and staying home instead of working can be the difference between sink or swim for them. So opting out is not universally positive. c) The first sentence is Shaunti’s response: Well, duh. Everything beyond that is guilt-tripping women who have the audacity to consider the best way to balance family and work and come up with any conclusion other than giving up work. Which is possibly part of why the numbers are increasing. Heck, women aren’t advancing at the rates they did in the early days of women’s lib. They’re having trouble smashing the glass ceiling. And simultaneously they’re being told by “conservative feminists” that of course they can choose, but the best mothers choose to stay home and serve the needs of their children.
Anyway…how many times has this topic been flogged?
By Gregor Mendel
April 16, 2007 4:47 PM | Link to this
Well, JokesOn, do you think there’s any hope at all for these lame-brained women here on the blog? I know they are smarter that they let on to be. My only guess is that the rewards of playing “Victim” are too great for them to give it up. What’s your opinion?
By NetBanker
April 16, 2007 4:49 PM | Link to this
In weeda veritas! Wouldn’t that be “In cannibis vertas”? Either way I don’t know if weed contains much truth, but depending on the quality it gives me the giggles and the munchies.
By Gregor Mendel
April 16, 2007 4:52 PM | Link to this
*Wouldn’t that be “In cannibis vertas”? *
How about “Semper Weedi”, then? Maybe we could get the Marines to adopt that one.
By Gregor Mendel
April 16, 2007 4:54 PM | Link to this
depending on the quality it gives me the giggles and the munchies.
You’re going to have to drop by someday, Net. Bring your seatbelt.
By Gregor Mendel
April 16, 2007 4:56 PM | Link to this
And simultaneously they’re being told by “conservative feminists” that of course they can choose, but the best mothers choose to stay home and serve the needs of their children.
Roles are changing for the woman, as well as for the man. Men feel pressured to be “sensitive” these days, only to be ridiculed by the women who demand that of them. Then, when you get p**, they get all hot and bothered and want to have sex. What gives?
By NetBanker
April 16, 2007 5:01 PM | Link to this
many children fail in school not due to any mental limitation, but due to a poor attitude toward learning.
That’s sad. Growing up I was told that it was my JOB to go to school and earn good grades. I was fortunate to grow up in an extended family of readers and intellectual curiosity. If we could play Team Jeopardy we’d be hard to beat…or as my cousin put it far more directly…”We’ve all got cess pools of useless, but interesting information in our heads. Hey! At least the conversation is never dull”
By Grannyatl
April 16, 2007 5:10 PM | Link to this
do you think there’s any hope at all for these lame-brained women here on the blog? I know they are smarter that they let on to be. My only guess is that the rewards of playing “Victim” are too great for them to give it up.
It is your abusive language when referring to women & what women have to say that is disturbing. In what way do women play victim? Please tell us because we have no idea what you are taking about. Please be specific due to the fact we are so “lame-brained” as you put it.
No one wants to be in any type of abusive relationship man or woman.
I would also truly like to hear your views on what responsibility women have in men shooting complete strangers in schools, the work place. What do women do to encourage or cause men to seek out a girlfriend or estranged spouse & commit murder. What about the woman fleeing an abusive relationship? What part did she play in having her brains blown out at her place of employment by the man she is hiding from?
The current update on the shooter today is that he was originally after his girlfriend. Did this girl cause her boyfriend to murder 31 people today? Would this have made only the local paper if he had only gunned down her & no one else?
I would really like to hear your answer.
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By Mara
April 17, 2007 8:20 AM | Link to this
Granny - don’t you know that women are at least half responsible for their significant other beating them up, murdering them, or going on a killing rampage? If we would only quit nagging and tearing men down, if we LET them be… I mean, they have needs, you know? If we women would just stop being victims, then our men could stop being perpetrators. It’s not that they want to assault us, you see. But we make them slap us around and/or kill innocent bystanders! Don’t you GET it? Women p** men off, and if we didn’t, the men wouldn’t have to “straighten us out”.
(/snark)
By JokesOn
April 17, 2007 9:12 AM | Link to this
Well, JokesOn, do you think there’s any hope at all for these lame-brained women here on the blog? I know they are smarter that they let on to be. My only guess is that the rewards of playing “Victim” are too great for them to give it up. What’s your opinion?
There is no chance in he!!. You cannot even discuss an issue without them becoming totally irrational and sabotaging the effort.
Take the meeting at the prestigious college a year or so back (cannot remember which who anymore) that was regarding the low number of females in high positions or the female representative that struck the guard and called it racist profiling.
Women know exactly what they are doing, so it is not a matter of ignorance either. Just look at the silent assent by all the women here when this freak posts slander against all males.
So, until women choose to recognize that it is a VERY small percentage of males that commit these actions, coupled by the fact that these actions effect innocent males as well as females (the shooter for instance shot many guys too), women obviously cannot be a part of this debate.
Once again it is up to guys to tackle an issue without the support or assistance of females, putting us in the care-taker role yet again.
By JokesOn
April 17, 2007 9:15 AM | Link to this
The current update on the shooter today is that he was originally after his girlfriend.
How is it you know what the FEDs do not even know? Or are you applying the missing pieces in this event that would suit your purpose? (irrational blubber)
Since the FEDs suspect he was Asian, can we demonize all asains now? (more irrational blubber)
By Mara
April 17, 2007 9:26 AM | Link to this
Once again it is up to guys to tackle an issue without the support or assistance of females…who just refuse to take responsibility for making men commit violence upon them and the occasional innocent bystander. They know exactly what they’re doing when they make a man lose it. They aren’t ignorant. They are the instigators and yet they refuse to “debate” their complicity in domestic violence. It’s their fault dammit and they refuse to take responsibility for women being beaten up, women being murdered, or even the collateral damage of innocent bystanders being gunned down by a man that they pushed too far! How unreasonable of them! LOL!!
and do a lot of guys really believe this drivel? That women themselves cause their abuse?
By Grannyatl
April 17, 2007 9:29 AM | Link to this
JokesOn it is not a small percentage of men who kill an estranged wife or girlfriend. A “domestic” means somebody, most always a woman, was slaughtered.
I’m positive in the united states alone more than 32 women a day are assassinated by men they know. A young woman was slaughtered at that school yet law enforcement & school authritites did not think it was serious enough to protect all those kids.
The lesson here is that everybody needs to take the “domestic” murder of women seriously. If a man is insane enough to gun down a woman breaking up with him, he is a danger to everyone.
We are still very interested in your theory of why women are partly responsible for men committing murder.
By JokesOn
April 17, 2007 9:47 AM | Link to this
Mara,
You are mixing your words into mine to achieve the result you want - that is what I refer to knowing what your doing and you rebut by doing it again. Thanks for proving my point.
Granny, The lesson here is that everybody needs to take the “domestic” murder of women seriously. And your definition of “everyone” is “all males,” not females as proven by your ranting.
And: We are still very interested in your theory of why women are partly responsible for men committing murder. I have two issues with this statement: A) you use a collective “we” as if you speak for all females B) you need to show me where I state “murder” as where women’s responsibility should be asserted.
You skew the point YOU brought up: That all males are responsible for the SMALL number of violent men.
It is you that must show how I am in some way responsible for an idiots/disturbed persons actions. But by associating all men with the shooter, you do in effect create a atmosphere of ambivalence in men.
Example: Why should I treat YOU respectfully if you have already condemned me to the same category as a rapist?
By JokesOn
April 17, 2007 9:52 AM | Link to this
Mara,
That women themselves cause their abuse?
You have no comprehension of the difference between “cause” (1 to 1 ratio) and have some level of responsibility?
By comp133xi7y
April 17, 2007 9:56 AM | Link to this
**From Grannyatl @ 9:29:JokesOn it is not a small percentage of men who kill an estranged wife or girlfriend. A “domestic” means somebody, most always a woman, was slaughtered.
I’m positive in the united states alone more than 32 women a day are assassinated by men they know. A young woman was slaughtered at that school yet law enforcement & school authritites did not think it was serious enough to protect all those kids.**
Granny, you are nuts…32 women a day adds up to 11,680 women a year - assuming your numbers are correct. That represents .003 of the population…yeah, all men are crazy. SNORT.
And use the right word, ok? Assasination generally refers to murder with a political motivation. Using it in this context just makes you seem more irrational than you already seem. I know, I know - hard to believe, but it is possible for you to be more irrational than you already are being.
By JokesOn
April 17, 2007 9:56 AM | Link to this
JokesOn it is not a small percentage of men who kill an estranged wife or girlfriend. A “domestic” means somebody, most always a woman, was slaughtered.
These are not even comparative ideas….geeze. Do the real math of the percentage of males (that means compared to the whole lot) that commit violent acts and then get back to me, although it is not YOUR agenda to make headway in this issue, only to demonize all men.
By MrRogers
April 17, 2007 9:59 AM | Link to this
There goes the neighborhood. Early day.
By Grannyatl
April 17, 2007 10:06 AM | Link to this
I can see any of us trying to have a conversation with JokesOn is a complete waste of time. JokesOn i’m positive there are plenty of blogs full of angry mental men you could chat with.
Mara do you agree this is a perfect example of why all women, young & old must be able to support themselves & children if they have any? Too many women find themselves completely trapped in relationships with men exactly like this shooter, which is the reason more than 32 women a day are hunted down & murdered by a boyfriend or husband. For your own survival now & for your entire lives you cannot rely on anybody else to live. Young women are lucky today it can easily be done if you choose to, otherwise you put too much at risk.
Why do so many men resort to murder when they are rejected? Is there anything we as a society can do about it or is that just the way it has always been that’s the way it will always be ?
By Grannyatl
April 17, 2007 10:08 AM | Link to this
Mara try not to let JOkesOn the troll get to you. Let him show his true hateful colors.
By Ri-Aguilar
April 17, 2007 10:26 AM | Link to this
Abanamat! In vina veritas! 119 Array
By JokesOn
April 17, 2007 10:27 AM | Link to this
JokesOn i’m positive there are plenty of blogs full of angry mental men you could chat with.
Where-as you have found your blog of vile, man-hating women to chide with.
You are the hateful one, spouting that all men are evil. Just more evidence that you have no capability of rational thinking.
*Too many women find themselves completely trapped in relationships with men exactly like this shooter, *
Ahhhh - here we have the point I am making: you refuse to ask yourself the question of WHY you women flock to these psyco’s instead of decent men. Which is purely a female issue.
Thank you. Thank you very much.
By kimberly
April 17, 2007 10:32 AM | Link to this
Oh lovely. What a joy to check W2W and find another mom-bashing topic followed by a woman-bashing discussion. Thanks CHUCKIE for dragging my name up. Tell you what: let’s put two or even three of your little righteously-raised muffins up against my ONE little oow child in an academic bowl competition. (An 8th grade teacher should be familiar with these.) Here’s the result: Mine kicks butt, takes top prize without breaking a sweat, then proceeds to duties of being class president and team captain. So um, BITE ME, oh passer of judgement (passer of a great putrid judgemental WIND, that is.) Would love to stay and chat, but I have WORK to do, you know, to pay the bills and such like a real grown up. Ppppbbbblllllppppppbbbbppplllllllttttt!
By Mara
April 17, 2007 10:36 AM | Link to this
Granny - the inability to detect sarcasm and mocking overstatement is a severe deficiency in some posters.
As for domestic violence being a major reason why women should be able to support themselves…it’s my opinion that everyone, male or female, should be responsible for their own well-being. I see it as the responsible thing to do.
By Mara
April 17, 2007 10:39 AM | Link to this
some interesting stats on domestic violence - http://www.endabuse.org/resources/facts/
Nearly 25 percent of American women report being raped and/or physically assaulted by a current or former spouse, cohabiting partner, or date at some time in their lifetime
In the year 2001, more than half a million American women (588,490 women) were victims of nonfatal violence committed by an intimate partner. Intimate partner violence is primarily a crime against women. In 2001, women accounted for 85 percent of the victims of intimate partner violence (588,490 total) and men accounted for approximately 15 percent of the victims (103,220 total).
In 2001, intimate partner violence made up 20 percent of violent crime against women. The same year, intimate partners committed three percent of all violent crime against men.
On average, more than three women are murdered by their husbands or boyfriends in this country every day. In 2000, 1,247 women were killed by an intimate partner. The same year, 440 men were killed by an intimate partner.
Women are much more likely than men to be killed by an intimate partner. In 2000, intimate partner homicides accounted for 33.5 percent of the murders of women and less than four percent of the murders of men.
of course there is more at the website, but I didn’t want to pull a big ol’ cut-n-paste on my unsuspecting blog buddies. :^)
By Grannyatl
April 17, 2007 10:44 AM | Link to this
Thank you JokesOn for showing more of your male tendency for violence.
Because I’m just a woman some believe I have no business discussing the behavior of the male species so let’s just discuss what we can do to protect ourselves, not get rid of the actual danger. Once again young women are responsible for dating men who become violent, so what else can we teach girls we aren’t already telling them now about safe dating?
Without question from birth teach your girls to be self-sufficient. Staying at home is not a smart choice these days.
By Former Subscriber
April 17, 2007 11:31 AM | Link to this
The current update on the shooter today is that he was originally after his girlfriend. Did this girl cause her boyfriend to murder 31 people today? Would this have made only the local paper if he had only gunned down her & no one else?
I would really like to hear your answer.
Granny, I will agree with you to a point that no one wants to be or truly enjoys being in an abusive relationship. Yet the sad fact is, many women will “settle” for unhealthy relationships rather than being alone. In addition, in every Victim/Persecutor relationship, the tables get turned at some point in which the original Persecutor becomes the Victim and vice versa, so it‘s all not one-way. Not in the same “dimension”, however. Men are more prone to use their fists, women their tongues. As for how each specific party carries out this drama, I’ll leave it up to you to find examples on your own.
In answer to your general question about men and violence, I don’t specifically blame women. Some men are just plain nuts, so there is no explanation for their cruelty. And due to higher testosterone levels, men are more aggressive by nature. But in most domestic violence situations, there is a predictable escalation in which the woman is complicit, even if not happily complicit. This never excuses the man, of course, for it is he who controls his fists. But, in your worldview, the man is 100% responsible, such that the solution has to lie 100% with men alone. I’m suggesting a more egalitarian view in which there is responsibility on both parties behalf, so that a joint solution is likely more effective. For a few, marriage counseling is helpful. For more, an honest appraisal of the situation along with a mature commitment to act appropriately and within boundaries can work. In other cases, however, there is no hope once certain lines have been crossed, such as physical beatings or marital rape, so the woman needs to get out ASAP and not look back.
Gotta run. I’ve joined a blog addiction recovery group and the meeting starts in 30 minutes. You’ll all be pleased to know it lasts all day, 7 AM to 5 PM, Monday through Friday.
By comp133xi7y
April 17, 2007 11:31 AM | Link to this
Police identified the classroom shooter as 23-year-old Cho Seung-Hui (pronounced Choh Suhng-whee) of South Korea. There was no indication Tuesday of a possible motive for the attacks.
So…either someone is jumping to conclusions or…
No, there’s no or…someone is jumping to conclusions based on a skewed perception of men in general.
By Former Subscriber
April 17, 2007 11:34 AM | Link to this
P.S. I’m betting on kimberly’s kid in the academic bowl comp. against chuck’s kids. You know, like Monica says, “Brains and Good Looks beget Brains and Good Looks”. ; > }
By lozen
April 17, 2007 11:36 AM | Link to this
What would you JokesOn know about decent men? You are a joke, that’s fer shur! Kimberly, Chuck is just a perfect example of the anachronistic, puritanical religious attitude all of us (esp. women) have to deal with.
By Salvador_V_Chavez697
April 17, 2007 11:37 AM | Link to this
Abanamat! In vina veritas! 119 Array
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By Former Subscriber
April 17, 2007 11:41 AM | Link to this
P.P.S. Mara, Whiley—JokesOn is one of the good guys out there, as am I. We’re on your side. Don’t be fooled by the rough talk.
By KimberlyFan
April 17, 2007 11:46 AM | Link to this
Reports say that the now-identified gunman was looking for his ex-girlfriend. It’s worth noting the theme of misogyny that permeates so many of these shootings. I will put in these two cents: could the reason the original shooting was not broadcast, that the campus was not put on lockdown, be because the police quickly assumed it was a domestic violence shooting? Could it be that because we accept domestic violence as prevalent, but also misguidely assume it is “private” and self contained, that the police didn’t feel the same need to shut down the campus even though the shooter was still on the loose? That’s what gets me- why would they think a person who just shot someone in a dorm would not be a harm to others? We’re safe because it’s normal for a female to be killed by her boyfriend.
By JokesOn
April 17, 2007 11:48 AM | Link to this
What would you JokesOn know about decent men?
That is not important since I am not the one that is dating men. You on the other-hand do not know one and you DO date men; another example of my point.
See dog, it is a sad group that we are dealing with.
By Former Subscriber
April 17, 2007 11:54 AM | Link to this
See dog, it is a sad group that we are dealing with.
I understand, JokesOn. They’d rather gather together, commiserate, and point fingers than to look for solutions. I did have some success dating ladies in their 50s. Many start getting their heads together after menopause. But then again, what’s the old saying, “Once the mind comes together, then the a$$ is no good.”
I guess we have to accept that the prime beef has a high price tag.
By JokesOn
April 17, 2007 11:55 AM | Link to this
P.P.S. Mara, Whiley—JokesOn is one of the good guys out there, as am I. We’re on your side. Don’t be fooled by the rough talk.
No, I gave up being a good guy long ago. As I stated: women serve only one purpose in my life, as I suspect happens to many of the good guys out there I gave up on trying to have a partnership.
For partnership I got myself a dog;) They have more sense than females.
By Former Subscriber
April 17, 2007 12:00 PM | Link to this
And how about the AJC falling over itself due to Cynthia “McKinney” Tucker winning a Pulitzer? Too bad they can’t understand why they are losing readers in droves. I quit my subscription about a year ago due to the inexcusable liberal bias throughout the paper. It wouldn’t be so bad if they merely contained their pinko views to just the editorial page.
By Former Subscriber
April 17, 2007 12:08 PM | Link to this
No, I gave up being a good guy long ago. As I stated: women serve only one purpose in my life, as I suspect happens to many of the good guys out there I gave up on trying to have a partnership.
Well, you are your own man, but I hope you don’t give up on the reason we are here on this planet, JokesOn. Hopefully we can educate them a little as they are tying to educate us a little. My personal belief is that biochemistry (i.e. hormones) drives much of our behaviors, so that there may not be a rational solution.
All of you ladies here might wish to check out a good book I just finished, “The Female Brain” by Louann Brizendine, M.D. She gives a chronological account of how the various hormones in women’s bodies vary over time and the behavioral effects they have, e.g. estrogen, progesterone, testosterone, oxytocin, cortisol, vasopressin, DHEA, androstenedione, and allopregnenolone.
By Mara
April 17, 2007 12:10 PM | Link to this
Men are more prone to use their fists, women their tongues…in most domestic violence situations, there is a predictable escalation in which the woman is complicit, even if not happily complicit
so to all those sharp-tongued women out there dares to speak her mind, don’t be surprised if your significant other just loses it one day and rips you a new one. It’s your insessant yammering that makes you complicit in your own assault. You ask for it and POW! to the moon, Alice, to the moon. Really, when you are just asking for a whack upside the head, don’t blame the guy who gives it to ya.
Oh, and don’t forget…you can always tell which guys are gonna be violent. They’re the broody, snarly, nasty men. They are never charming, well-spoken, friendly, or sympathetic. Clean-cut, all-American guys don’t slap their girls around. They just don’t.
(/snark)
By Former Subscriber
April 17, 2007 12:12 PM | Link to this
So you see, some of us guys are trying to understand you ladies. Of course, you keep changing the rules on us. : > }
By Former Subscriber
April 17, 2007 12:19 PM | Link to this
so to all those sharp-tongued women out there dares to speak her mind, don’t be surprised if your significant other just loses it one day and rips you a new one. It’s your insessant yammering that makes you complicit in your own assault.
You know, Mara, for an extremely intelligent, somewhat rational woman like yourself, you’re not making any sense here. I’m actually starting to wonder if some guy treated you badly in the past and you’re still struggling with it.
For me, the bad times came at an early age, but there is a way out. The first step is to stop being a victim.
By NetBanker
April 17, 2007 12:23 PM | Link to this
Hey kids! Well it’s a lil’ contentious in here today. So in the spirit of just a little levity…
“domestic” murder Isn’t that when you want to kill the housekeeper/maid for like singeing your favorite shirt/blouse while ironing or using the black shoe polish on your brown shoes?
For partnership I got myself a dog;) They have more sense than females. Hmmm…detecting some serious emotional issues…dogs are for COMPANIONSHIP not partnership! Apparently what JokeOn really wants is someone to greet him at the door with the ‘Happy Dance’, fetch his slippers, listen intently (or appear to) when he’s speaking, obey every command, and be completely dependent on him for food, shelter, and access to the bathroom (i.e. outside).
By NetBanker
April 17, 2007 12:25 PM | Link to this
I quit my subscription about a year ago due to the inexcusable liberal bias throughout the paper. It wouldn’t be so bad if they merely contained their pinko views to just the editorial page. And we’re sure that YOU’RE an impartial reader with no conservative prejudice whatsoever.
Prepare for the onslaught of anti-Cynthia Tucker statements and accusations of librul bias in the AJC.
By Former Subscriber
April 17, 2007 12:29 PM | Link to this
Hey kids! Well it’s a lil’ contentious in here today. So in the spirit of just a little levity…
NetB to the rescue!
In cannabis veritas!
By Mara
April 17, 2007 12:30 PM | Link to this
You know, Mara, for an extremely intelligent, somewhat rational woman like yourself, you’re not making any sense here
just rewording other people’s comments. The arguments themselves are pretty silly, so no surprise if the paraphrasing comes out sounding irrational. Personally, I don’t care what is said, mere words do not merit a beat down, let alone a murderous rampage.
I’ll leave you alone now so you can get back to “debating” with yourself.
By Former Subscriber
April 17, 2007 12:30 PM | Link to this
Apparently what JokeOn really wants is someone to greet him at the door with the ‘Happy Dance’, fetch his slippers, listen intently (or appear to) when he’s speaking, obey every command, and be completely dependent on him for food, shelter, and access to the bathroom (i.e. outside).
Hey, they actually sounds like a good deal, Net. Any of you ladies here up for the task? I’ll let you outside at least two, three times per day. ; > }
By Former Subscriber
April 17, 2007 12:34 PM | Link to this
And we’re sure that YOU’RE an impartial reader with no conservative prejudice whatsoever.
C’mon, buddy, give me a break! Even you have to admit to the liberal bias in the placement of the news stories, the editorial focus, etc. which is causing the AJC to bleed like a stuck pig. They have what, exactly one conservative in the whole place, Jim Wooten. If they wanted to please the more conservative readers, they should have daily columns by Thomas Sowell. That guy makes more sense than 1000 Libs rolled into one.
By Grannyatl
April 17, 2007 12:36 PM | Link to this
JokesOn you seriously need to go blog somewhere else. This is a woman’s blog & men like you have no business being here. Nobody here wants to hear your violent-anti-woman complaining. However JokesOn you are a fine example of a loser-male.
Now shoo !
Again there is no such thing as playing the victim. Women speaking out & fighting back is not playing the victim.
Maybe we sould encourage girls & young women to always double-date. That might help weed out & protect against some potentially dangerous boyfriends.
I know we shouldn’t have to come up with new & better ways to protect ourselves, but with guys like JokesOn around what choice do we have?
By lozen
April 17, 2007 12:38 PM | Link to this
Boy the schizophrenia is really bad today. JokesOn. Former Subscriber. Both none other than Dog talking his anti-female bull to himself. Hard to believe there are such sick folks out there with access to a computer. I guarantee you this sicko has beaten up a girlfriend who was just saying what she had to say and he didn’t like it. He wouldn’t be so defensive if he hadn’t. Nobody else is!
By Former Subscriber
April 17, 2007 12:39 PM | Link to this
Personally, I don’t care what is said, mere words do not merit a beat down, let alone a murderous rampage.
I agree. However, having been at the receiving end of unnecessary mental/emotional cruelty from a few women I dated in the past, I can also understand where the feeling to strike back comes from.
Also, I accept your cop=out for not being able to come up with any rational solutions today.
By Former Subscriber
April 17, 2007 12:45 PM | Link to this
Boy the schizophrenia is really bad today. JokesOn. Former Subscriber. Both none other than Dog talking his anti-female bull to himself. Hard to believe there are such sick folks out there with access to a computer. I guarantee you this sicko has beaten up a girlfriend who was just saying what she had to say and he didn’t like it. He wouldn’t be so defensive if he hadn’t. Nobody else is!
One day you’ll have to accept that there are actually people other than myself who share my viewpoint, lozen. And how am I “anti-female” for wanting to help you guys overcome the domestic abuse games? Believe what you want, I have never lifted a finger against a female. I can surmise what a nightmare it must be for the men who were unlucky enough to cross your path, however. You seem very adept at the Persecution Game, lozen.
By Mara
April 17, 2007 12:49 PM | Link to this
I accept your cop=out for not being able to come up with any rational solutions today
didn’t know we were looking for solutions, rational or otherwise. Here’s one for ya…everybody keep their hands to themselves. There. That should take care of it.
~wave~ hey lozen, NetB
By Former Subscriber
April 17, 2007 12:49 PM | Link to this
Again there is no such thing as playing the victim. Women speaking out & fighting back is not playing the victim.
And as long as you keep believing that, there will be no solution. But I do accept that maybe you don’t want a solution. Be honest for a minute, does Dr. Phil get you hot and bothered? How about Bill Clinton, then, a known abuser of women? Somehow I’m betting Bill gets you a lot hotter than Dr. Phil.
By PunditMom
April 17, 2007 12:49 PM | Link to this
Convincing statistics from Bennett? Or from the Bureau of Labor Statistics? I think you’re both missing the real point — many women are not opting out or prioritizing their children. This “choice” so many talk about is not a real choice.
Many women are being forced out of their careers because our still male-dominated workplaces (especially the professions) refuse to acknowledge the changed face of employment today. If there was a true, third choice of having a worklife that doesn’t penalize those who need flexibility, we would be seeing less of this. And if those in charge (read: mostly men) stopped viewing the need of today’s families/dual working parents for flexibility as a synonym for “lack of commitment,” there would be a lot more productivity and loyalty and fewer parents who felt pushed into making a “choice” they don’t really want.
http://punditmom1.blogspot.com
By Former Subscriber
April 17, 2007 12:54 PM | Link to this
didn’t know we were looking for solutions, rational or otherwise. Here’s one for ya…everybody keep their hands to themselves. There. That should take care of it.
Sounds like a deal, Mara. And how about your end of the bargain, no mental/emotional abuse when you don’t get your way?
By Scalia
April 17, 2007 12:58 PM | Link to this
In the year 2001, more than half a million American women (588,490 women) were victims of nonfatal violence committed by an intimate partner. Intimate partner violence is primarily a crime against women. In 2001, women accounted for 85 percent of the victims of intimate partner violence (588,490 total) and men accounted for approximately 15 percent of the victims (103,220 total).
I love when people bring this up. They always assume that the intimate partner is a man. How many of these intimate partners were women? I had professor in college that told me that more than half of the women she saw at the battered shelter came from a female/female relationship.
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By Former Subscriber
April 17, 2007 1:05 PM | Link to this
So remember this next time you bash Bush: Clinton paid out millions to women he assaulted. That’s a fact. Bush paid out zero. Clinton publicly humiliated and disrespected his wife, who never loved him in return anyway. The Bushes have a loving, supportive marriage. I understand your disagreement with the Iraq war, but the fact is, you think Clinton is “sexy” for his brutish behaviors, and Bush is somehow a wimp in the bedroom. I’m down with that, I understand the hormonal situation.
By Former Subscriber
April 17, 2007 1:07 PM | Link to this
Well, lunch hour is over, gotta get back to the blog addiction recovery meeting.
By kimberly
April 17, 2007 1:11 PM | Link to this
People are violent because people suck. Bill Clinton is not an abuser, he’s a “ladies’ man.” Abusers [come in both genders and] are insecure and control and hurt others to make themselves feel bigger. Ladies men have a lot of love to give, and big hungry appetities, and that’s not always congruent with the constraints and arbitrary rules of modern monogamy which is mistaken for “morality” by hypocrites who think getting one’s rocks off is a huge unforgivable sin, but lying us into a war, squandering the treasury, making your friends rich at the expense of the American people and the lives of our military (let’s not forget the collateral damage of the Iraqis who might actually be human beings too) is just dandy with them, Praise Jesus. Oh yeah, and BITE ME.
By kimberly
April 17, 2007 1:21 PM | Link to this
Clinton paid out millions to women he assaulted.
Soooo… back to the “assault” of the dog-faced trailer trash. (Sorry — I’d rather walk on my lips than say something unkind…). Are you saying that this high-standards, moral young lady who had no problem taking tens of thousands of dollars from REPUBLICANS out to destroy a sitting President (nice patriotism there, beeeyotch) for her nose job, free wardrobe, free “legal” representation, free PR representation, travel and living expenses… And if I do recall, she had NO problem taking all that money, in order to and in return for swearing that the once-Governor had TRAUMATIZED her with an offer of sex, and even GASP! showed her the sceptor? (GEEEEZUSSSSSS, if I knew I could get three-quarter mil for every time I was “traumatized” in the businessworld.. DANG) Are you saying trailer trollop would do all that but was utterly morally HORRIFIED by a proposal of sex by the Governor of her state? I mean, GEE, that never happens… powerful men propsition young women to be mistresses of some sort. I can imagine how her little world was traumatized — thank goodness for the Republicans who came to her rescue. BTW, what is the website for all the other women the Republicans are willing to rescue? I have a couple of retro-active beefs myself. When does MY GOP lawyer arrive with a suitcase full of cash?
By Former Subscriber
April 17, 2007 1:24 PM | Link to this
Bill Clinton is not an abuser, he’s a “ladies’ man.”
Are you really sure about that one, kim? Better double check the BS-O-Meter, your hormones appear to have temporarily disabled it. : > }
By Former Subscriber
April 17, 2007 1:26 PM | Link to this
People are violent because people suck.
That may be, but it’s much more psychologically healthy to believe that good people can go sour, or at the minimum, that we all have the capacity for evil.
By Mara
April 17, 2007 1:27 PM | Link to this
And how about your end of the bargain, no mental/emotional abuse when you don’t get your way?
I get it! You won’t slap me around if I just keep my opinions to myself and make sure I’m not hurting your widdle feelings or bruising your tiny little ego…some “bargain”. I shut up and you don’t hit me.
(me and you are figurative appellation…not “Me” as in Mara and “You” as in whoever you are at this minute)
By Former Subscriber
April 17, 2007 1:28 PM | Link to this
BTW, what is the website for all the other women the Republicans are willing to rescue? I have a couple of retro-active beefs myself. When does MY GOP lawyer arrive with a suitcase full of cash?
Sorry, honey, we all have to bear our own crosses alone.
By Mara
April 17, 2007 1:30 PM | Link to this
Scalia - good question on the gender of the “intimate partner”. Regardless of your professors anecdote, overwhelmingly its a heterosexual male within a relationship. More info at this mental health website.
http://www.allaboutcounseling.com/domestic_violence.htm#whomost
By Former Subscriber
April 17, 2007 1:31 PM | Link to this
Oh yeah, and BITE ME.
Don’t tempt me like that—you know how oral Dogs can be. : > }
By Former Subscriber
April 17, 2007 1:34 PM | Link to this
You won’t slap me around if I just keep my opinions to myself and make sure I’m not hurting your widdle feelings or bruising your tiny little ego…some “bargain”. I shut up and you don’t hit me.
Opinions are encouraged, Mara, but not presented in an emotionally hostile way, as you appear to be pretty good at yourself. Not as good as lozen and kim, but respectable.
By kimberly
April 17, 2007 1:35 PM | Link to this
Oh yeah, funny how they selected that one girl out of millions of traumatized American women to represent and fund.
Sorry, honey, we all have to bear our own crosses alone.
Unless of course, you have some dirt on anyone named Clinton, Obama, Wilson, Boxer, Pelosi, or any other un-patriotic terrorist lover who refused to march in line, in which case, please call Karl Rove’s super secret snitch hotline, and the best graduates of Pat Robertson’s law school will be at your door in 20 minutes to take your deposition.
Oh, and by the way, my hormones say you can effing BITE ME.
By Former Subscriber
April 17, 2007 1:36 PM | Link to this
I shut up and you don’t hit me.
And now that we’ve got things straight, I expect dinner to be on the table at 6 sharp.
By Grannyatl
April 17, 2007 1:36 PM | Link to this
“And as long as you keep believing that, there will be no solution. But I do accept that maybe you don’t want a solution. Be honest for a minute, does Dr. Phil get you hot and bothered? How about Bill Clinton, then, a known abuser of women? Somehow I’m betting Bill gets you a lot hotter than Dr. Phil.”
You are insane, what are you talking about? Pea-brain man please leave this blog for Women & the sensible men who LOVE US !
Why don’t you go to your local Support-male-violence rally & leave the rest of us alone K?
All right now. Am I to understand now kids & teachers need to fear the boys that seem to be quiet loners? There is a new group of boys we are to be wary of now? This is exhausting, NOW girls have to be professional criminal profilers to date safely?, because that is certainly what I am getting from a lot of people. WE’RE supposed to be able to spot it.
By JokesOn
April 17, 2007 1:37 PM | Link to this
dogs are for COMPANIONSHIP not partnership!
NetB,
I agree that many people purely use a dog for what they want and maybe you subscribe to that notion that they are only animals. Conversely, my dog and I have a very strong partnership. He has needs that get met as do I.
By JokesOn
April 17, 2007 1:42 PM | Link to this
I get it! You won’t slap me around if I just keep my opinions to myself and make sure I’m not hurting your widdle feelings or bruising your tiny little ego…some “bargain”. I shut up and you don’t hit me.
Dog, I think that I just realized another facet of this issue: women are unable to comprehend a statement not being left handed. The typical psychological projection issue.
By JokesOn
April 17, 2007 1:44 PM | Link to this
I get it! You won’t slap me around if I just keep my opinions to myself and make sure I’m not hurting your widdle feelings or bruising your tiny little ego…some “bargain”. I shut up and you don’t hit me.
In short this just states that you do not have the right to f$uck with your man emotionally or use left handed/coded statements as a viable way to communicate.
Frustrating having to spell everything out all the time, right dog?
By Former Subscriber
April 17, 2007 1:45 PM | Link to this
Am I to understand now kids & teachers need to fear the boys that seem to be quiet loners?
Yep, too bad your theory that the shooter was mad at a girl didn’t pan out, Granny.
Why don’t you go to your local Support-male-violence rally & leave the rest of us alone K?
I would, except all the seats are already taken by you lame-brained women.
You are insane, what are you talking about? Pea-brain man please leave this blog for Women & the sensible men who LOVE US !
Sure, I’ll leave. Hopefully one day you’ll understand that true love means giving positive strokes, not negative ones. Like JokesOn, I’ve had difficulty finding women who truly want to live an adult, somewhat rational life. The lure of the drama is too strong, I guess. Love to all, especially…..
By Former Subscriber
April 17, 2007 1:47 PM | Link to this
Oh, and by the way, my hormones say you can effing BITE ME.
Really??? Maybe dreams do come true sometimes. Mmmmmmmm, good!
By JokesOn
April 17, 2007 1:48 PM | Link to this
Pea-brain man please leave this blog for Women & the sensible men who LOVE US !
Translated: Shut up and don’t voice your opinion, even if it is valid.
By dellpbaker715
April 17, 2007 1:48 PM | Link to this
Abanamat! In vina veritas! 119 Array
By Former Subscriber
April 17, 2007 1:50 PM | Link to this
Dog, I think that I just realized another facet of this issue: women are unable to comprehend a statement not being left handed. The typical psychological projection issue.
You nailed it, JokesOn. My ex-wife was the queen of the left-handed comment. She had difficulty accepting that I not only loved her, I actually liked her as a human being and liked to express those feelings in the form of compliments. She always viewed compliments with great suspicion.
By Lyrazel
April 17, 2007 1:53 PM | Link to this
As the bickering continues among all about evil men and victim women I was wondering if anyone has noticed again how the VT shooter was on depression medication? Do you remember the child shoot-out that happened in Red Lake MN? He too was on prescription depression medicine. The Columbine shooter was on depression medication too (I think). So maybe the problem is NOT VIOLENCE but the growth of such mood stabilizers being prescribed for a catch-all problem labeled as depression? Everyone I know who has ever been on these drugs reports: medication fuzzy-head (not feeling) and changing a prescription has led to erratic behavior. Here is the rub, these are heavy drugs but are being prescribed to people without therapy or any kind of observation. Worst of all is the fact these drugs are being prescribed to children. Well, as with the suicides that kids were prone to from taking depression medications— could the mood medication be partly the reason for the surge of shootings considering how more people, especially young people in this age who have been medicated in their youth cannot respond rationally because of the imbalance created by the medication?
I hope we do not hide from the truth that generations of children are growing up on mood medications and those who prescribe these pills may not know the long-term effects? It would hardly be the first time the medical community uses pills on people without understanding long term effect.
By Former Subscriber
April 17, 2007 1:53 PM | Link to this
Translated: Shut up and don’t voice your opinion, even if it is valid.
You know, buddy, you would think they might just reread some of their own comments to see the violence, the hostility which exists in their minds. And when I watch my female rabbit bully the male, I know it’s not just a male thing.
By kimberly
April 17, 2007 1:58 PM | Link to this
If a man’s an abuser, then the only way he’s married to the SAME woman for 30 years is if she’s a doormat. Anyone think think Hillary is a doormat? Anyone? Me neither.
Women do, however, put up with their ladies’s men for lots of reasons. (Not the least of which are big awesome hands, the glimmer in his eye and…. oh. sorry. inappropriate.) {;->
By Former Subscriber
April 17, 2007 2:03 PM | Link to this
Everyone I know who has ever been on these drugs reports: medication fuzzy-head (not feeling) and changing a prescription has led to erratic behavior. Here is the rub, these are heavy drugs but are being prescribed to people without therapy or any kind of observation. Worst of all is the fact these drugs are being prescribed to children.
You know what is maddening, Lyrazel? I spent 20 years helping people get off their poisons, yet got little respect from my medical colleagues. The few MDs that came to me for treatment always acted a little sheepish for receiving help from a lowly chiropractor. Medicine has it’s place, no doubt, but the bottom line is that God gave us good chemistry for the most part. The medical mantra of “Better Living Through Chemistry” has to change at some point. A respect for God is a good place to start.
By Former Subscriber
April 17, 2007 2:05 PM | Link to this
Women do, however, put up with their ladies’s men for lots of reasons. (Not the least of which are big awesome hands, the glimmer in his eye and…. oh. sorry. inappropriate.) {;->
You know, there are a few guys who offer both. They may not look like the military men who seem to catch your eye, though. You gotta look into the soul.
By Former Subscriber
April 17, 2007 2:08 PM | Link to this
big awesome hands, the glimmer in his eye and
Medium hands can do a good job. Especially when the glimmer is there and all the other important parts are in place. ; > }
By Mara
April 17, 2007 2:08 PM | Link to this
anybody know what a “left-handed comment” is? I know what a “back-handed compliment” is, but not so sure about a “left-handed comment”.
By Former Subscriber
April 17, 2007 2:13 PM | Link to this
anybody know what a “left-handed comment” is?
You have to smoke some left-handed cigarettes first to understand, Mara. ; > }
Actually, it refers to communication which occurs on more than one emotional level.
By Former Subscriber
April 17, 2007 2:21 PM | Link to this
Oh, well. FMITA. Just lost my a* on the stocks again today. Never should have sold that Parker Drilling last week. F***!
By Mara
April 17, 2007 2:24 PM | Link to this
it refers to communication which occurs on more than one emotional level
huh?? Like speaking truth sarcastically?
By lozen
April 17, 2007 2:24 PM | Link to this
it’s much more psychologically healthy to believe that good people can go sour, or at the minimum, that we all have the capacity for evil. The litany of the abusive man ya’ll. “I was a good person until she got mad and told me what an as.h.le I was and then I hit the b—ch but she asked for it!”
By JokesOn
April 17, 2007 2:27 PM | Link to this
Lyrazel,
I agree.
Plus, did you read that a preliminary study shows that ingesting the microbes in dirt have nearly the same anti-depressant effects as heavy medication. This draws yet another link between the immune system and psychological wellness.
Seems that we humans have possibly made our environment too clean.
By Former Subscriber
April 17, 2007 2:33 PM | Link to this
huh?? Like speaking truth sarcastically?
That might be an example, Mara. Then the actual words can be replayed later as part of the Victim script: “I only said X”. But if you think about the hateful undertone, you might get a clue as to what type of response you’ll receive. Lot to be said for honest, clear communication.
The litany of the abusive man ya’ll. “I was a good person until she got mad and told me what an as.h.le I was and then I hit the b—ch but she asked for it!”
lozen, I try to remain hopeful for you, but you see the world through a dark prism. Look to the light, honey.
By lozen
April 17, 2007 2:33 PM | Link to this
I’ve had difficulty finding women who truly want to live an adult, somewhat rational life. The lure of the drama is too strong, I guess. Yeah, I bet the drama around you, and no fault of yours of course, is quite strong. But it seems to follow you in every relationship right? What is the common denominator idiot?
By kimberly
April 17, 2007 2:33 PM | Link to this
You’re right about abusive men, Lozen. I learned in my marriage (it was explained to me) that when I got out of line (failed to obey all commands, even those it was my job to anticipate beforehand), I was indeed asking for it. There was nothing wrong him, but the long list of my faults was repeated to me regularly, for my own benefit of course. I was but one in a long list of wives, since abusive men have to keep getting new ones.
Fortunately, there are men around to remind me (sometimes I forget) that the problem really is ME. When they do, I thank them for their kindness.
By Former Subscriber
April 17, 2007 2:35 PM | Link to this
Seems that we humans have possibly made our environment too clean.
Back to God. As a person who has studied every subject relating to human health, along with Theology, Logic, and Philosophy, I caught on a few years ago that the system already in place (i.e. Nature) is the best one. Human engineering falls short of the Glory.
By JokesOn
April 17, 2007 2:36 PM | Link to this
The litany of the abusive man ya’ll. “I was a good person until she got mad and told me what an as.h.le I was and then I hit the b—ch but she asked for it!”
Are you saying that you did not become the hateful person you are today because of a select few treating you crappy?
I guess that you must be an example of one of the people that were just born hateful and that there is not any fixing that which is as it was meant to be.
“Poor, poor soul you are. Blinded by hate” as yoda would say.
By Former Subscriber
April 17, 2007 2:38 PM | Link to this
Fortunately, there are men around to remind me (sometimes I forget) that the problem really is ME. When they do, I thank them for their kindness.
You know, kim, you’re way to smart to be playing the games you do. Kind of breaks my heart, but again, we all have to figure out how to stop pressing the self-destruct buttons on our own.
By Former Subscriber
April 17, 2007 2:40 PM | Link to this
Yeah, I bet the drama around you, and no fault of yours of course, is quite strong. But it seems to follow you in every relationship right? What is the common denominator idiot?
I’m human, so yes, I actually do like a *little bit of drama. But, I tire of that quickly and move into a healthy, respectful relationship ASAP. Some women have folowed my lead, others haven’t. The main reason I’m not married is that I like my private time, something impossible to obtain once you’re married.
By Former Subscriber
April 17, 2007 2:43 PM | Link to this
JokesOn: What do you think we should charge the ladies today for all this good insight? Doubt if many of them actually have an open mind to hear the guy’s side of the story, but it’s worth a try.
By HeeHaw
April 17, 2007 2:49 PM | Link to this
The Korean VT shooter left a note, and why does this sound so familier right here on this blog?: Think back some months.
Sources have now described the note, which runs several pages, as beginning in the present tense and then shifting to the past tense. It contains rhetoric explaining Cho’s actions and says, “You caused me to do this,” the sources told ABC News.
By lozen
April 17, 2007 2:53 PM | Link to this
Hey Mara! It’s amazing isn’t it? Nobody gets so defensive unless they have good reason! We can surmise some of the details of the past life of what-ever-its-name-is-today, can’t we?
By Former Subscriber
April 17, 2007 2:53 PM | Link to this
“You caused me to do this,” the sources told ABC News.
Good memory, Chilao, oops, I mean HeeHaw. I certainly remember you and chuck publishing my home address because “I made you do it”. So, go F yourself, ok. Having fun with your Ram figurine, you POS?
By Lyrazel
April 17, 2007 2:55 PM | Link to this
JokesOn, if they put dirt in pill form do you think that the pharmaceutical industry will claim the patent? Whose lawn is safe from a hostile take-over or possibly from teens with spoons getting high by over medicating themselves on your front lawn? Is it with or without mulch?
By Former Subscriber
April 17, 2007 2:56 PM | Link to this
Well, better turn off the computer and settle down again. Can’t afford any more attorney fees.
By HeeHaw
April 17, 2007 2:57 PM | Link to this
LOL A-s-s-h-o-l-e
what home address? I have it? should I look for it?
By JokesOn
April 17, 2007 2:58 PM | Link to this
What do you think we should charge the ladies today for all this good insight? Doubt if many of them actually have an open mind to hear the guy’s side of the story, but it’s worth a try.
I will use a statement that just recently got posted: Fortunately, there are WOmen around to remind me (sometimes I forget) that the problem really is woMEn. When they do, I thank them for their kindness.
(wink)
By Mara
April 17, 2007 3:01 PM | Link to this
ah. so your premise is not so much what women say as it is the “hateful” way they say it that causes (some) men to beat women? That’s your argument!? That women who are sweetly disrespecrful, or say things in a “mean” tone of voice, are ultimately complicit in their abuse?! I’m….beyond stunned.
By lozen
April 17, 2007 3:02 PM | Link to this
I tire of that quickly and move into a healthy, respectful relationship ASAP. Ha, ha, ha, ha, ha. You poor, poor fool. Anyone on this blog knows you wouldn’t know how to have a respectful, healthy relationship with anyone!
By HeeHaw
April 17, 2007 3:03 PM | Link to this
what home address?
refresh my memory, you talking the addres YOU posted here, like a common IDIOT?
By Former Subscriber
April 17, 2007 3:03 PM | Link to this
Ladies, my heart breaks for each and every one of you who wound up in a bad marriage. But once again, that doesn’t solve anything. None of you were to blame for violence heaped upon you. The guy could have walked, like I always have. But, I truly doubt that many of you handled things in a way which could have diffused the violence. Undoubtedly, each of you thwarted the efforts of a concerned friend or family member who tried to get you to leave and stay away. One of my sisters reported some type of abuse to me once and said she was afraid. Her hubby was a lot bigger than me, but we had a little talk man-to-man which straightened things out. At least that one didn’t cost me any money.
By kimberly
April 17, 2007 3:05 PM | Link to this
Thanks for reinforceing my observation that people suck.
By Former Subscriber
April 17, 2007 3:06 PM | Link to this
I will use a statement that just recently got posted: Fortunately, there are WOmen around to remind me (sometimes I forget) that the problem really is woMEn. When they do, I thank them for their kindness.
(wink)
Man, no WAY I could ever top that one. You rule, JokesOn! I’m outta here!!
By Former Subscriber
April 17, 2007 3:08 PM | Link to this
refresh my memory, you talking the addres YOU posted here, like a common IDIOT?
I posted a business address—and yes, foolishly. But the extra step taken by you and chuck reveals your jealousy and dark souls. I wasn’t that surprised by chuck, but you seemed to talk a good game about respect before that, D-wad. So go back to playing with your computer for the rest of your life while I enjoy my leisure time before returning to treating actual human beings.
By JokesOn
April 17, 2007 3:10 PM | Link to this
JokesOn, if they put dirt in pill form do you think that the pharmaceutical industry will claim the patent?
It would not surprise me. You know they will have to sterilize the dirt, propagate the microbes through cloning and then reintroduce them to the dirt. That could be quite expensive. And after all, they are only trying to help us help ourselves;)
You know they looked to these same microbes as a cure for cancer, but in the end it only made the person feel better. Until this latest study they did not look into this.
By Former Subscriber
April 17, 2007 3:15 PM | Link to this
Thanks for reinforceing my observation that people suck.
I’m not going to let you believe that, kim. Remember, good people go sour, Good people go sour. Keep repeating that.
And people who love you do sometimes speak harshly. The ones who only want to get in your pants do all the smooth talking. And a man who really loves you might speak a little harshly even though he’s smart enough to understand that smooth talking might lead to a different outcome. You following?
kim, I think everyone on the blog feels for you and lozen and the other ladies who have had a rough time. From the heart.
By Former Subscriber
April 17, 2007 3:18 PM | Link to this
You know they looked to these same microbes as a cure for cancer, but in the end it only made the person feel better. Until this latest study they did not look into this.
Maybe BC could head up the study. He’s a real Scientific genius, that guy, unless you’re talking about real Science, of course, like the truth. But he’s very good with the statistics and confidence intervals and the like which prove how valuable his work is.
By Lyrazel
April 17, 2007 3:27 PM | Link to this
Kimberly you said: I was but one in a long list of wives, since abusive men have to keep getting new ones.
What is very different about your situation is that you were able to perceive the pattern then go beyond it with your next partner. Few people who get in abusive relationships actually can identify patterns of abusers thus they keep going for the same kind of man/woman until serial abuse relationships become their litany.
By SETHU
April 17, 2007 3:31 PM | Link to this
Abanamat! In vina veritas! 119 Array
By JokesOn
April 17, 2007 3:35 PM | Link to this
Former Subscriber,
One place I think you and I split on opinions is that I believe shame is one of the roots of evil. Many times the shame one incurs for an action/thought/appearance compounds the problem (if there was one) beyond what the initial issue naturally would have.
By JokesOn
April 17, 2007 3:40 PM | Link to this
Few people who get in abusive relationships actually can identify patterns of abusers thus they keep going for the same kind of man/woman until serial abuse relationships become their litany.
Smart words.
One can conclude that the solution to all issues begins with the self. The line between self awareness and beating up oneself is indistinguishable for some.
So, they beat themselves up over what happened which in turn convinces them that they must deserve such abuse leading them right back to square one.
In the end they give up and blame a whole demographic like some on here perhaps.
By kimberly
April 17, 2007 3:41 PM | Link to this
Mongrel, Lozen and I don’t need you to “feel” for us, mmmm-kay? Keep your hand on its usual place… thankyousomuch.
Lyrazel, you’re right that I recognized the abuse and got out more quickly than most. (Short attention span, I guess, Haha!) But I can’t say the pattern is totally broken. I keep attracting a—holes for some reason, and sometimes am sucked in by the whole I-care-and-I-know-better-than-you bit. In no way do I claim to be a victim (watch me kick some a—), but there’s no magic pill that I’ve ever found to wake up with good relationship skills and the pheremones that only attract compassionate, mentally healthy men. Nonetheless, “getting OUT” is a good life skill, and there really is freedom in knowing there’s no hope.
By Former Subscriber
April 17, 2007 3:47 PM | Link to this
Many times the shame one incurs for an action/thought/appearance compounds the problem (if there was one) beyond what the initial issue naturally would have.
I’m going to have to stick with the tool/weapon opinion on that one, buddy. Wrongfully used, shame can be the greatest cross to bear, worse than any physical beating. However, the “good” kind of shame is the kind which prevents a man from striknig a woman in the first place. People with no shame at all are dangerous.
Having said that, I suspect some of the difficulty with the ladies coming out of bad relationships is the associated shame. But the ones who do leave can really hold their heads high for taking a courageous step.
By Mischling
April 17, 2007 3:48 PM | Link to this
Mongrel, Lozen and I don’t need you to “feel” for us, mmmm-kay?
Sorry, I’ll crawl back to the netherworld with my tail between my legs.
By Mischling
April 17, 2007 3:56 PM | Link to this
I guess the bottom line, JokesOn, is that I’m a sucker for caring. You’re right. FMITA.
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April 17, 2007 3:58 PM | Link to this
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By JokesOn
April 17, 2007 3:58 PM | Link to this
*However, the “good” kind of shame is the kind which prevents a man from striknig a woman in the first place. *
But since there is a tool for that type of shame (learning how to emp/sympathize with others), there seems to me that there is no need for shame. Shame is just a shortcut that if, as agreed on, mis-used can be crushing.
People with no shame at all are dangerous.
They can be (antisocial behavior), but the number of those type are too low for me to syth into the equation and be meaningful. I am along the lines of “cast fist stone” with this one.
By Lyrazel
April 17, 2007 4:06 PM | Link to this
kimberly: All fairy tales end after they go to the castle together, don’t they?
By lozen
April 17, 2007 4:10 PM | Link to this
I am along the lines of “cast fist stone” with this one. What a Freudian slip! I knew it!
By NetBanker
April 17, 2007 4:34 PM | Link to this
disrespected his wife, who never loved him in return anyway. The Bushes have a loving, supportive marriage. Pure conjecture, no? How do we know that Laura and W don’t have a business arrangement just as much as it is speculated that Hillary and Bill do? Or that H&B have just as much a supportive, loving marriage as L&W? If you’re not in the relationship or a personal friend who has observed the couple in various situations on numerous occassions one’s spouting is pure opinion with no proof.
BTW, what is the website for all the other women the Republicans are willing to rescue? Sorry, hon…that’s been replaced by the Gay Scandal website because those darn homos are so much more scandalous than a regular hetero affair. I’m all signed up and waiting for my assignment so I’ll know which married, male politician’s career and family I’m supposed to destroy via revelations of a meaningless sex act (preferably in public). Any thoughts on location? The airport restrooms are apparently out after the Morehouse professor and that MARTA dude.
many people purely use a dog for what they want and maybe you subscribe to that notion that they are only animals. Nope! My dog is my baby girl and is treated as such. She is cute, spoiled, playful, loving, and well behaved, but not an animal.
Goodness we seem to be switching topics rather early this week, but pretending like I didn’t know better…..
I’m curious about the conservative position of family friendly work policies and regulations. Why is it that the party of family values never sponsors family-friendly workplace legislation? How come their position seems to be that ‘family values’ means the woman drops out of the work force and stays home to raise the lil’ monsters, er darlings rather than putting some strength behind FMLA? Why doesn’t there seem to be more support for having BOTH parents take turns by staying home? While there is more societal acceptance of men leaving work early to pick up the kids from day care or stay home with them because they’re ill there still seems to be a bit more double standard in the workplace that the woman should do those jobs. I see it with one of my own employees and her husband as well as having a few male coworkers grouse about sick kid duty and just having to throw in the disclaimer that their wife has an important meeting or is out of town on business or something. So what?! You’re kid is sick…go be a parent.
By JokesOn
April 17, 2007 4:39 PM | Link to this
I knew it!
Whoohoo! You finding an error in my typing constitutes absolute proof of (what-ever your notion is).
What a Freudian slip! Really? What exactly is a fist stone? Non-sense is what it is except in your twisted reality where anything means anything you want since the world obviously revolves around you.
Thanks for further proving you have no ability to comprehend.
By JokesOn
April 17, 2007 4:44 PM | Link to this
NetB,
Nope! My dog is my baby girl and is treated as such. She is cute, spoiled, playful, loving, and well behaved, but not an animal.
I did not think so, but could not understand why you chose not to understand that pets, to a few individuals, are partners in this journey and not only a companion.
By lozen
April 17, 2007 4:51 PM | Link to this
“…since the world obviously revolves around you.” Perfect. I’m sure everyone sees the irony in that statement?
By NetBanker
April 17, 2007 4:53 PM | Link to this
All fairy tales end after they go to the castle together, don’t they? Yes, they do! I’d love to see Reunion movies from all the Disney films like they did with the Brady Bunch and some other TV Shows. Let’s get those nagging questions answered! Will Cinderella’s gown and glass slippers still fit after having a couple of Princes and Princesses? Has the Prince become short, fat, and bald like his father? Whatever happened to the evil stepsisters? Has Arielle decided that life in the sea really was better than living on land? How does she really feel about her husband now that he’s comfortable enough to fart and scratch himself in front of her?
By JokesOn
April 17, 2007 4:59 PM | Link to this
I’m sure everyone sees the irony in that statement?
You end a statement with a question mark which was related to your ignorance. Man, are you ever confused. Too many meds for you today I guess.
Just do not try to navigate any stairs by yourself sweetie. I would hate to hear that you fell and broke your tiara; although the cranial damage has already occurred.
By kimberly
April 17, 2007 5:07 PM | Link to this
Freedom isn’t free, and loneliness is a big price, but the air is sweeter, and lots of people died for our freedom, so it must be worth it.
By NetBanker
April 17, 2007 5:35 PM | Link to this
why you chose not to understand that pets, to a few individuals, are partners in this journey and not only a companion. I consider the roles of partner and companion to be different. I admit that I’m more than a little influenced by the gay lexicon in which ‘partner’ has become the equivalent of spouse since that term is off limits due to the no marriage thing. With the term partner there is a connotation of equality that doesn’t exist with the word companion.
By Mosquito ringtone
April 18, 2007 7:19 AM | Link to this
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By Victor-G-Alexander
April 18, 2007 8:01 AM | Link to this
Abanamat! In vina veritas! 119 Array
By Testerdrr
April 18, 2007 8:09 AM | Link to this
Hellodmf - this is just a testing, don’t worry about it
By chuck
April 18, 2007 8:50 AM | Link to this
I hope we do not hide from the truth that generations of children are growing up on mood medications and those who prescribe these pills may not know the long-term effects?
Sounds like the 60’s to me. Isn’t that when this idea of “medicate problems away” began to really take hold? Or was it the late 50’s early 60’s when the use of alcohol for that same purpose was so glamorized in film?
Me, I’d rather get high on LIFE.
Hi Kimberly, I wasn’t actually insulting you when I brought your name up. I just thought that the comp133 poster sounded an awful lot like you and had confused those posts and attributed them to “Lurkergirl”. I am beginning to think that every single poster other than the regulars may very well have FLEAS. If he isn’t a case study for multiple personalities disorder I don’t know who is.
By Dr. Atomic
April 18, 2007 9:57 AM | Link to this
Who needs Life? I’m high on Drugs!
By Dr. Atomic
April 18, 2007 9:59 AM | Link to this
Sounds like the 60’s to me. Isn’t that when this idea of “medicate problems away” began to really take hold? Or was it the late 50’s early 60’s when the use of alcohol for that same purpose was so glamorized in film?
You might have to go a little further back—like to 50,000 BC or so. You sure you’re a History teacher?
By Dr. Atomic
April 18, 2007 10:02 AM | Link to this
But don’t worry, I don’t blame you for being hot for kimberly. She has that effect on men.
By HeeHaw
April 18, 2007 10:07 AM | Link to this
Bruce Myers AKA Bruno, dog, and most recently Dr. Atomic
495 Inland Way NW
Lilburn, GA 30047-5850
By JokesOn
April 18, 2007 10:08 AM | Link to this
Dr. Atomic,
Do you remember the band “Marry My Hope?”
If so, know where you can still pick up a CD?
By Jack
April 18, 2007 11:13 AM | Link to this
Low blow HeeHaw. That crosses the line. Shame on you. Post your name and address for all to see.
By Eff the Big Pharm Greedy Execs
April 18, 2007 11:34 AM | Link to this
Speaking of the natural way, lithium is a mineral that can be ingested naturally, unprocessed as it occurs in many spring waters. Lithia Springs, Georgia, for example, sells (and delivers) spring water containing natural traces of lithium. The water is widely reported to improve the mental health of those who drink it, specifically those who exhibit the wild mood swings and irrational behavior associated with bi-polar disorder. Please go to the website for more information. The Lord has provided a way…..
Of course, it may not treat those who are “just plain mean.”
By Dr. Atomic
April 18, 2007 12:25 PM | Link to this
Dr. Atomic,
Do you remember the band “Marry My Hope?”
Got me on that one, JokesOn. Were they a prog-rock band? I’ve got some fairly obscure stuff like “Barclay James Harvest” and the like. Are you a Robert Fripp fan?
By Dr. Atomic
April 18, 2007 12:28 PM | Link to this
Low blow HeeHaw. That crosses the line. Shame on you. Post your name and address for all to see.
I appreciate the back up, Jack, but don’t worry too much. I’ve gone through a few rounds of death threats in the past. I found the best way to end the threats is to simply invite the jackasses over for a party. Haven’t had anyone show up yet.
By Dr. Atomic
April 18, 2007 12:29 PM | Link to this
Of course, it may not treat those who are “just plain mean.”
What do you recommend for “meanness” then? I feel a big round coming on.
By NetBanker
April 18, 2007 12:30 PM | Link to this
Lalalala…still staying on topic….I rarely listen to Star 94, but for some reason it was on this morning and their chatter caught my attention because the topic was about women attempting to return to the workforce after taking time out on the Mommy track. There was a woman on who started a company called Mommy Corps that is a recruiting/placement firm that specializes in helping moms (dads) return to the workforce part-time to full-time and which focuses on finding flexible jobs to meet the varying needs of those returning to the workforce. It was a rather interesting discussion and one point they made very clear is that if you’ve taken time off to raise your family you can’t expect to return to work at the salary at which you left.
By Dr. Atomic
April 18, 2007 12:33 PM | Link to this
I gotta feeling neither chuck nor Chilao would give me much of a challenge anyway. I think they are both pretty much Pussies.
By Scalia
April 18, 2007 12:34 PM | Link to this
Netb: I wonder, and have often wondered, how did the Prince kiss Sleeping Beauty knowing that she would have some serious morning breath?
And I read a feminist story that changed the ending of Snow White. It was hilarious. The Queen apologized to Snow White, and realized that she was just as pretty as Snow White. They left the Prince and the dwalfs and opened a spa that helped build women’s self-esteem.
By Dr. Atomic
April 18, 2007 12:37 PM | Link to this
Sure do miss the Underground Comix from the good old days, though. The newer Japanimation is cool in its own way, but I’ll take an R. Crumb comic anyday. Fascinating movie about his life called “Crumb”. If you guys think I’m sick, rent that movie.
By NetBanker
April 18, 2007 12:44 PM | Link to this
What do you recommend for “meanness” then? Cannibis!
By NetBanker
April 18, 2007 12:46 PM | Link to this
LOL, Scalia, over the morning breath.
By Dr. Atomic
April 18, 2007 12:48 PM | Link to this
What do you recommend for “meanness” then? Cannibis!
Hasn’t been working lately. Plus with the good stuff at nearly $500 per Z, maybe the pharmaceuticals would be cheaper at this point.
By Dr. Atomic
April 18, 2007 12:54 PM | Link to this
Now, if I were in charge of the US Govt, the first thing we would do is legalize marijuana, prostitution, and online poker. With the tax monies collected, we could end income tax altogether.
Plus, think about that Cho guy. The antidepressants weren’t working, apparently. Dr. Atomic would have prescribed a nice Doobie and a relaxing BJ for the nice young man. 32 people would still be with us if he had been under my care.
By Jack
April 18, 2007 12:55 PM | Link to this
Your paying way too much.
By Dr. Atomic
April 18, 2007 12:58 PM | Link to this
Quick recommendation for all, especially mein Spezial-Freund. Turn off the TV for the next month. Seriously. Boycott the news. All we’re going to hear about is endless analysis of the latest tragedy. The fact is, statistically we are individually still very safe in this country. The guy was nuts, there’s nothing to analyze.
Personally, I feel the media is covertly encouraging these events with the wall-to-wall coverage. A*****.
By Dr. Atomic
April 18, 2007 1:01 PM | Link to this
Your paying way too much.
The best always cost more, Jack. I can’t handle schwag.
By Dr. Atomic
April 18, 2007 1:05 PM | Link to this
Well, only got a month or so to party, anyway. I’ve gotta get back to work soon, if only to stay out of trouble. I like working anyway. I decided years ago, if you’re going to be a -holic, might as well be a workaholic.
By Dr. Atomic
April 18, 2007 1:08 PM | Link to this
Well, back to the blog addiction recovery meeting. They were really p** that I cut class yesterday.
By Mr. Bill
April 18, 2007 1:09 PM | Link to this
Oh, Noooooooooooooooooooooooooooo. It’s Mr. Hand. No, Mr. Hand, Noooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!
By MrRogers
April 18, 2007 1:10 PM | Link to this
There goes the neighborhood.
By Mrs. Bill
April 18, 2007 1:12 PM | Link to this
Oh, Yeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeessssssssssss. It’s Mr. Hand. Yes, Mr. Hand. Yeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeesssssssssssssss!!!!
By Dr. Atomic
April 18, 2007 1:17 PM | Link to this
“Confusion Will Be My Epitaph”
By Lyrazel
April 18, 2007 1:19 PM | Link to this
Prince Charming was gay. Its written in clearly in the tale of Cinderella. See, few men go chasing through a kingdom looking for shoes…
But of course Prince Charming was in denial and had a string of failed marriages after reality set in down home at the castle.
Hence the reason one does not read what happens after—whichever wife you choose of his to read of.
By Dr. Atomic
April 18, 2007 1:22 PM | Link to this
See, few men go chasing through a kingdom looking for shoes…
Um, apparently you read the PC version. In the original, he found a thong.
By Importer
April 18, 2007 1:33 PM | Link to this
Anybody ever go out in a fishing trawler and meet a freighter on a DarkMoonNight?
I always charged more to AHs, called it the AH Premium.
Some people are not smart enough to know they are paying that premium.
By Dr. Atomic
April 18, 2007 1:36 PM | Link to this
Pretty sad considering what that guy Chilao has been reduced to. I mean, storing up stranger’s addresses on your computer because you don’t like what they said on a blog?
Any one looking for the next Cho might want to check out this Chilao guy more closely.
By Dr. Atomic
April 18, 2007 1:38 PM | Link to this
Some people are not smart enough to know they are paying that premium.
Screw it, it’s only money. Can’t take it with you, and if you leave it as an inheritance, the greedy bastards will only end up fighting over it. I’d rather give it to you. Just be sure to spread it around in return, ok?
By Dr. Atomic
April 18, 2007 1:39 PM | Link to this
Shlt. The blog addiction recovery group is threatening to kick me out for missing class again.
See you all next week.
By sdacc
April 18, 2007 1:40 PM | Link to this
The Buzz on The Keep track of your Google favorite Soprano cast members this season by http://google.com/ reading about them daily on The Buzz, HBO.com’s entertainment blog.
By RAMONITE
April 18, 2007 2:04 PM | Link to this
Abanamat! In vina veritas! 119 Array
By Jack
April 18, 2007 2:05 PM | Link to this
Chilao is a good guy. he has more class than that.
By chuck
April 18, 2007 2:17 PM | Link to this
Hey NetB. Did you ever see the cartoon onthe Bugs Bunny show on the Three Little Pigs? Hilarious. The pigs were all Cool Jazz Musicians and the wolf was a Square…until he blew himself up and went to hell. Then he turned into a “hot” trumpet player.
By Chilao
April 18, 2007 2:19 PM | Link to this
Thanks, Jack.
I hardly think I have been the one to demonstrate extreme psychosis here. LMAO
And I was not HeeHaw earlier today. Must be others capable of storing information as well. It ain’t rocket science. Well, seems to be difficult for SOME but I regress…LOL
By lozen
April 18, 2007 2:39 PM | Link to this
Hey Chilao, where have you been? I know. I know. Avoiding whatever-its-name-is-today! I’ve been staying away a lot too and we have simply lost some good people due to extreme psychotic behavior and spam! Hope you are well. You too Jack.
By Chilao
April 18, 2007 2:47 PM | Link to this
Hi Lozen.
Blog ain’t what is USED TO BE, that’s for sure. Certainly one factor, of many, on my end. Company wanted to send me overseas for a few weeks, and lo-and-behold, if I had not let my passport expire. Lucky me(since I did not want to go anyway, at least for them).
Doing great!
By chuck
April 18, 2007 3:50 PM | Link to this
Hey Chill Pill. A friend of mine told me passports were taking 90 days to process now. The expidited requests are taking 60 days. Mine is good for 7-8 more years I think. Where were they going to send you?
I’m going to Europe this summer for a couple of weeks. Ever been to Vienna?. I’ve been to Budapest a couple of times but I haven’t been to Vienna yet. I have hear that it’s beautiful in the summer time.
By Monica
April 18, 2007 3:52 PM | Link to this
Hi all! Chuck, I love that cartoon! You also reminded me of a scene from Wayne’s World:
Garth: Wayne, did you ever think that Bugs Bunny looked cute when he put on a wig and acted like a girl bunny?
Wayne (laughing): No!
Garth: Uh, me neither. I was just asking.
Have a great day all. As you can see, I’m exhausted to the point of delirium! (Who needs pot to be silly? Not I!)
By kimberly
April 18, 2007 4:02 PM | Link to this
Yes, Vienna is beautiful in the summer time! But don’t pack your usual Georgia summer wardrobe, like I did. Our March/April clothes are more appropriate. And take loose-fitting togs, as it’s the dessert capitol of the world, and Schnitzel, Wurst, and Bier will pack the kilos on you, for sure.
By Chilao
April 18, 2007 4:14 PM | Link to this
Chuck - now you know I would never state something on this blog that would allow a coworker to identify me, let’s just call it Europe. Spent some time in Salzburg, but never made Vienna, regrettably.
yeah, about 10-12 weeks time delay, something I really need to address at the Passport Office(USPS) ANYWAY.
The thing was, all I needed was a data line and login.(which the company worked out). We have network guys that travel around to do routers/servers etc, and they get there, work 12 hours a day, do NOTHING locally, and come home. Why on earth would I do THAT kind of trip? LOL And at lunch we would sit around and talk about work. I’ll pass….
By Mr.JerryBanzor
April 18, 2007 10:22 PM | Link to this
Hello, Very Informative Posts. I really like what you have going on here. I’ll be back soon
By chuck
April 19, 2007 8:55 AM | Link to this
A little paranoid there aren’t you Chilao? I understand though. Especially since the blog has been infested with fleas. Anonymity is really the best part of the blogosphere. I have a cousin who does that for an “international” company. He goes all over the world. He does get to go to some pretty nice restaraunts though. He enjoys that part of it.
On another note, I can’t decide for sure if “Jokeson” is actually another one of Bruce’s many personalities or if it’s Zack. He does sound a little bit like zack used to.
By chuck
April 19, 2007 9:09 AM | Link to this
What restaurants should we go to Kimberly? In Budapest we went to one on top of a hill overlooking the city. It was a fortress, where the Hungarians made their last stand in WWII. I highly recommend it. The food was great and they had some traditional Hungarian folk music and dancing during the meal. Wasn’t really in to the dance thing, but the string quartet was legendes (Hungarian for fabulous). We also went to a little village (tourist trap) up the Danube River by boat and did some shopping for the family back home. There were a couple of really good restaraunts there. The city of Budapest itself is really great. They have some great parks and museums.
Romania is beautiful this time of year also. Still a little cool there.
By Monica
April 19, 2007 9:10 AM | Link to this
Is anyone else watching the new ABC show, “Notes from the Underbelly?” Last night’s show was about whether the expectant mother should quit her job to stay home or to keep working after baby is here. I love the show as it provides a pretty realistic view of both the male and female expecting parents (even though the show is set is LA, and the pregnant couples are upper middle class types of folks). It’s probably not funny to those without kids, but I’m enjoying it so far. And the debate to stay at home or to work was highlighted well last night.
By chuck
April 19, 2007 9:30 AM | Link to this
I’ve never seen that one Monica. I usually don’t get home from church til after 8:30 and my daughter usually watches Jericho at 8 while she’s recording “Idol”, then she watches that at 9. I usually watch the braves until “Lost” comes on at 10.
By Chilao
April 19, 2007 9:50 AM | Link to this
Chuck - I actually have prior experience with coworkers not liking opinions I have expressed outside of work, on a blog, and since I used a more familiar moniker, known to them, it caused work difficulties. LOL
But Paranoid is defined by me as the word used by those not running the risk, anyway; so to be called “paranoid” is meaningless to me. LMAO
after all, YOU will not be the one dealing with attitude over my opinions.
By kimberly
April 19, 2007 10:05 AM | Link to this
It’s been a few years since, I sampled the sumptuous treats of Vienna, but I most enjoyed the simple, mom & pop, home-cooking type places, where the lunch offering was noted on a chalkboard on the sidewalk. I actually confronted an obnoxious American family once, loud and confused, all “Do they have haaaaaaamburgers here?” Ack! I told them, “Look. This is what they’re serving today. Try it! This is how it’s done here in THEIR country. We’re not IN ours.” They looked at me like I was insane, but ordered the lunch and appeared to enjoy it. The Heurigens (sp?) are good if you’re hungry, ‘cause they’ll bring a roasted chicken and a half-liter of beer right out.
By JokesOn
April 19, 2007 10:13 AM | Link to this
FYI-
I am my own person.
By Monica
April 19, 2007 11:28 AM | Link to this
Angry soccer mom leaves daughter on side of interstate
Do you think she is a stay-at-home mom or a working mom?
By chuck
April 19, 2007 11:39 AM | Link to this
That’s cool jokeson….if that’s your REAL name. Sometimes lately it is kind of hard to tell. How long have you been reading/lurking?
By Lyrazel
April 19, 2007 11:40 AM | Link to this
O Monica that is a tough one. At first I thought—working mom—with the stress factor but then I wondered about a working mom being there to pick up because games are held during work hours—so my vote is for homebody.
By NetBanker
April 19, 2007 11:48 AM | Link to this
Hey kids! Trying to catch up here a bit….
Chuck…I have seen that Looney Toones and remember it well. I don’t know much about Vienna in the summer since I’ve only been in December. My recommendations would be The Spanish Riding School and the Vienna Opera. You can get standing room balcony tickets for the opera last minute really inexpensively so even if you aren’t a big opera fan you can afford to have the experience and then leave early without feeling guilty. The Spanish Riding School will probably be something that you’d need to book in advance, but seeing the Lipizzaner stallions is worth it.
I completely agree with Kimberly about dining. Find out where all the tourist areas are and then wander 3 to 4 blocks away from them to find a restaurant. The prices, food, and experience will be far better than the tourist traps. I’ve also found that asking a hotel doorman for a suggestion is a great way to find a good restaurant so long as you make sure to tell them that you want a locals type of place.
~waving~ Hey Kimberly! I’m giggling at your description of the American tourists. Americans are LOUD, aren’t we? I wasn’t quite so aware of it until I’d lived in Europe for a few months. You can hear them a block away! On more than one occasion my American friends and I would switch from speaking in English to French so that we wouldn’t be associated with being obnoxious tourists.
Monica…I’m voting for stay-at-home mom who has nothing else to occupy her time or stimulate her so she’s developed an overactive interest in her daughter’s success to make up for her feeling a lack of achievement in her life.
By NetBanker
April 19, 2007 12:01 PM | Link to this
I recently heard about ‘Reverse Paranoia’ It’s when you get this unexplained, strange feeling that you’re following someone.
By BURNESTA-BAILEY
April 19, 2007 12:04 PM | Link to this
Abanamat! In vina veritas! 119 Array
By chuck
April 19, 2007 12:11 PM | Link to this
Is that anything like reverse schizophrenia where 2 people think they are YOU?
By chuck
April 19, 2007 12:13 PM | Link to this
Good ideas on the restaraunts. We are only going to be there 2 days so I want to make sure I get a real Vienna experience.
By lozen
April 19, 2007 12:20 PM | Link to this
Yesterday Bush’s appointees to the Supreme Court did exactly what he selected them to do… They upheld the Federal Abortion Ban in its entirety therefore supporting an abortion ban (late term abortion) with no exception for a woman’s health. This is a green light to the anti-choice movement’s plan to outlaw abortion entirely. In her dissenting opinion, pro-choice Justice Ginsberg, who called the majority opinion “alarming”, writes “…[T]he Act and the Court’s defense of it cannot be understood as anything other than an effort to chip away at a right declared again and again by this Court.” If you believe that women and their doctors should never be forced into making difficult, personal, medical decisions based on extremist politics - then you must stand up and fight back. For the first time since Roe, this ban has no exception for the health of the woman. Any doctor who violates this ban would face criminal penalties of up to two years in prison, even if he/she was acting to protect the woman’s health.
By Chilao
April 19, 2007 12:23 PM | Link to this
I recently heard about ‘Reverse Paranoia’ It’s when you get this unexplained, strange feeling that you’re following someone.
and you know you have it when someone in front of you turns back to you and says “Say, are you following me”. See, validation. LOL
The Lippizaners, which I have seen twice, in the USA, are highly recommended. And they travel the US regularly if you cannot fit them in in Vienna. In fact they performed in Gwinnett recently. Based in Florida.
By Chilao
April 19, 2007 12:24 PM | Link to this
Lipizzaners? LOL
By Joe L
April 19, 2007 1:06 PM | Link to this
Lozen - I was very surprised there hasn’t been a good amount of talk on this recent and terrible ruling. First it’s disturbing that the Court is starting to reverse abortion rights and second the legislature should not be in the business of micromanaging what a doctor and patient decide is appropriate care.
By 2D
April 19, 2007 2:30 PM | Link to this
I too am surprised that there wasn’t more talk about the wonderful opinion written by Justice Kennedy yesterday.
Lozen, what most people out here realize, and what you won’t admit, is that abortion has virtually NOTHING to do with a woman’s health. It has to do with convenience. Period. If abortions were only performed when continuing a pregnancy would cause medical trauma to the woman, I don’t think you’d find too many folks opposed to it.
I have to wonder about individuals who whine and cry about terrorists being “tortured” (i.e. forced to wear panties for photographs and having their holy book flushed down the toilet) by American soldiers and then can turn a blind eye to such a gruesome procedure.
If you read (or see visuals of) what happens during the procedure that was banned by that legislation (a very, very specific procedure), and then upheld by the Supreme Court, it should make your stomach turn. If it doesn’t, you have serious emotional problems.
By Lyrazel
April 19, 2007 2:43 PM | Link to this
LOZEN, don’t be surprised if it is the subject of next weeks column. Its not a victory (but boy will politicians rally) for anyone except medical insurance companies. Few women under pre-natal doctor care actually wait so long if there is a problem—plus now that the procedure is no longer insured these patients will have to take their doctors advice earlier with less risk. Maybe it will drop the insurance rates of OBGYNs who are the most sued and the highest payers of medical malpractice insurance costs.
By Mara
April 19, 2007 2:53 PM | Link to this
Joe - one of the most objectionable parts of the finding was that it gives no exceptions. Not even for the LIFE of the woman. The court, it seems, is saying that a pregnant woman with certain medical problems has a legal obligation to give her life for her unborn fetus.
By diaz
April 19, 2007 2:58 PM | Link to this
Abanamat! In vina veritas! 119 Array
By WomanCHOICE
April 19, 2007 3:12 PM | Link to this
abortion has virtually NOTHING to do with a woman’s health. It has to do with convenience. Period.
What a stupid remark. A woman hating man’s big mouth flappin again. If you don’t have a uterus shut the hell up.
By WomenWAKEUP
April 19, 2007 3:16 PM | Link to this
With the VA killings going on it was a super opportunity for our sick Govt. to pass this idiotic new abortion ban.
By Joe L
April 19, 2007 3:23 PM | Link to this
2D - Surgery was considered “gruesome” and “barbaric” when it was first embraced by the medical community. It’s an emotional and misleading argument that healthy babies are subjected to this procedure. The fetuses that are forced to undergo this procedure have serious defects that make them unlikely or unable to survive and often pose, yes a health risk to the mother.
You have intellectual problems if you don’t understand the truth of the medicine which 99% of people don’t.
It’s up to a doctor and a patient to decide what procedures are necessary and how they will be executed. I bet you don’t want the legislature deciding that tumorectomies or open-heart surgery is “barbaric”.
By Archie
April 19, 2007 3:31 PM | Link to this
Can someone explain, objectively, why it’s necessary to obtain a partial-birth abortion? I have seen where it occurs after 20 weeks or more into a pregnancy so I don’t understand why it could not occur earlier. I need objective answers obviously women have health issues. Any objective response is fine.
By WomenWAKEUP
April 19, 2007 3:35 PM | Link to this
What we have here is a congress that is legislating laws based or morality. MORALITY? Who decides what is moral & what isn’t? What else is being legislated like that? We are talking about the lives of all women here. If laws that directly affect women are legislated based on morality, well, we all know what double-standard strick moral codes of conduct are forced on all females.
There is another crazy loon on the loose in California at this moment claiming to have bombs & guns & wants to one-up what just happened in VA.
HEY AMERICAN GOVT ! Stay out of women’s lives & take care of the wacko men in this country !
By Lyrazel
April 19, 2007 3:40 PM | Link to this
Not at all Mara. What it is saying is that women cannot wait for weeks after a doctor has advised the abortion to undergo this procedure where the fetus is cut out rather than sucked out (all doctors call it risky surgery). Its a seldom performed procedure. I am less afraid of anti-abortionists than the insurance companies because if a woman wants to carry to term a risky pregnancy or a child known to be handicapped in some way these insurance companies want to get out of having to pay for further medical care on a child born against a doctor’s advice who will need lots of medical care.
By Joe L
April 19, 2007 3:42 PM | Link to this
Archie - Many defects are not detected prior to the second or even third trimester. Or often fetal distress leads to the termination of the fetus and it’s often better physically and emotionally to remove the lifeless fetus. Would you want to carry a dead fetus in your body for 2-3 months to “naturally” deliver a long deceased infant?
By Monica
April 19, 2007 3:50 PM | Link to this
WomanCHOICE,
I do have a uterus, and I agree with the legislation that is upheld. Correct me if I am wrong, but I understand that the legislation upholds the ban on partial-birth abortion, not any abortion. While I disagree with abortion in general, I’m not going to re-visit that argument about when life begins, etc. However, I cannot see how delivering part of a baby’s body and then suctioning brain matter out of his head can be considered anything but murder. If a woman chooses this method because of a health risk, surely going through labor to deliver the baby for the purpose of aborting it poses a risk as well.
By Archie
April 19, 2007 3:50 PM | Link to this
Archie - Many defects are not detected prior to the second or even third trimester. Or often fetal distress leads to the termination of the fetus and it’s often better physically and emotionally to remove the lifeless fetus. Would you want to carry a dead fetus in your body for 2-3 months to “naturally” deliver a long deceased infant?
Joe L. there’s no need to be a smartass. The first part of your answer is what I wanted because many people don’t know what partial-birth is and why it’s necessary.
By kimberly
April 19, 2007 3:56 PM | Link to this
Archie, it’s an extremely RARE procedure done when the fetus is horribly defective or deformed to the point that it would not survive past birth anyway. It’s not something a woman waits and schedules after her vacation or when the only time between semesters at graduate school falls after 20 weeks. It mostly occurs when the child was initially wanted. It’s done in those “Omygod, I can’t believe this is happening and none of my choices are good ones!” situations. Would you want your wife to suffer another 10 or 15 weeks of that kind of horror, especially if it could affect her health, your existing family, or her ability to bear healthy children in the future? Perhaps, but that’s none of MY business, is it?
Why do people ASSUME they have the knowledge and understanding to make (or force) decisions onto the lives of others? Either way, she who makes the decision lives with it.
By CAMPBELL
April 19, 2007 4:04 PM | Link to this
Abanamat! In vina veritas! 119 Array
By Archie
April 19, 2007 4:08 PM | Link to this
Thanks Kimberly I did not know why people have partial-birth abortions. I just wanted an objective answer. No I would not want my wife to suffer at all. Remember I am just like many people who do not really know what a partial birth abortion is. Somehow I think some folk misread my earlier post. I will rephrase the question. Can someone tell what partial-birth abortion is and why it’s necessary?
By Joe L
April 19, 2007 4:09 PM | Link to this
Archie - It’s not being a smartass, it’s an extremely valid and important question.
Monica - There are vast number of reasons why you are incorrect about the difference in risks and exactly why trained physicians who are intimate with the particular patient’s case should decide their care, not uneducated and uninformed legislators.
By NetBanker
April 19, 2007 4:13 PM | Link to this
The court, it seems, is saying that a pregnant woman with certain medical problems has a legal obligation to give her life for her unborn fetus. When the mother gives her life for her unborn fetus are conservatives going to get all p** about having to pay to bring the kid up? Provided the woman doesn’t die, but is financially or emotionally unable to raise the child (should it manage to survive birth or the severe defects) and turns the child over to the state (because let’s face it no one is going to adopt a child that severly defective) will they willingly accept that little life?
By Lyrazel
April 19, 2007 4:15 PM | Link to this
HEY AMERICAN GOVT ! Stay out of women’s lives & take care of the wacko men in this country!
Ah, the voice of reason.
By NetBanker
April 19, 2007 4:24 PM | Link to this
the legislature should not be in the business of micromanaging what a doctor and patient decide is appropriate care. You’d think they’d have all learned their lessons after the Terri Schiavo debaucle.
By Monica
April 19, 2007 4:29 PM | Link to this
Monica - There are vast number of reasons why you are incorrect about the difference in risks…
Such as…?
By NetBanker
April 19, 2007 4:36 PM | Link to this
Chuck…good one about reverse schizophrenia!!
The Lippizaners, which I have seen twice, in the USA, are highly recommended. And they travel the US regularly if you cannot fit them in in Vienna. Quite true, but if you have the chance to see them at The Spanish Riding School it’s a real treat. The dressage ring is the equivalent of a palace ballroom complete with gold-leaf details, mirrors, and crystal chandeliers.
By WomenWAKEUP
April 19, 2007 4:37 PM | Link to this
Ah, the voice of reason.
damn right it is.
By JokesOn
April 19, 2007 4:37 PM | Link to this
That’s cool jokeson….if that’s your REAL name. Sometimes lately it is kind of hard to tell. How long have you been reading/lurking?
It is not my given name;)
I have read it off/on for about 1.5 years, yet have not posted.
By 2D
April 19, 2007 4:43 PM | Link to this
“the legislature should not in the business of micromanaging what a doctor and patient decide is appropriate care”
I’ll remember that quate when the discussion about government run “universal (i.e. government) healthcare” comes up.
Joe (and anyone elsewho refers to this as a rare procedure)… How rare is this procedure? What guidelines are there to ensure that healthy babies are not subjected to this procedure? Is there any legal protection to protect a perfectly healthy baby from being partially born and then having it’s skull crushed and it’s brains sucked out?
By Joeywashere
April 19, 2007 5:00 PM | Link to this
Pretty Cool Place. I like your style too.
Cya again, Joey
By kimberly
April 19, 2007 5:04 PM | Link to this
Archie & 2D, I was googling around looking for some stats. I’ve read that it’s less than one percent of abortions performed, but stats are hard to verify. One reason was made clear by my company’s web-sense filter: “Pro-Life” Seven out of ten google hits I tried to access fell into this category. The “make government a nanny state for individuals” groups in this country are dominated not only by an agenda, but by a passion that rationalizes anything and everything to meet their goal. The volume of propaganda is astounding, and simply googling and reading is not likely to give you an accurate picture. I’d suggest this: Have you ever known anyone who had a PBA? (I guarantee you know people who’ve had abortions, even if they don’t discuss it with you.) If you really care, why not ask some doctors? The ones you know from church might give one answer, and non-religious ones might give another. I do believe the procedure is rare, and in interviews with doctors and patients I’ve seen in the news, it’s only done under specific medical circumstances.
Either way, I don’t know why the government and the people of this country get themselves in a tizzy over something like that, when there are REAL, tangible problems the government should address, and those people get paid to handle, that do not involve making someone else’s PERSONAL medical decisions FOR them. For example, the fact that we owe China a trillion dollars is upsetting to me… or the fact that the level of education of Americans has tanked right down to “stooopid,” or that we incarcerate more citizens per capita than just about anyone! Or the three or four “virginia techs” that happen every day in Iraq while nothing is accomplished. Someone please explain to ME, if you can, why the government, the people, and the world must stop everything to slap laws on a rare medical procedure that’s NONE OF MY BUSINESS! Why?
By lozen
April 19, 2007 5:07 PM | Link to this
Oh I forgot. There are so many vicious and conciousless women out there who wait until they’re six months pregnant and then decide to have an abortion for no other reason than convenience! Well, then I guess the government has to decide for all of them! Unfortunately, the woman who wanted her baby and discovers it’s going to be a brain dead, crippled, suffering thing after it’s born cannot now decide with her family and her doctor to terminate the pregnancy. Women will be forced to bring to term babies that died in the womb at six months, babies with spines that did not close as they should have, babies with all kinds of physical problems because the hand-picked Bush Supreme court says it is a criminal act to perform do abortion after a certain time.
By 3D
April 19, 2007 5:08 PM | Link to this
Am I to understand that if I have a 7 month old fetus inside my body that becomes severely deformed or dies, that the only option is have a surgeon slice open my stomach to have it removed??
Please tell me that’s not the case.
By Allison_Cooper181
April 19, 2007 11:08 PM | Link to this
Abanamat! In vina veritas! 119 Array
By Archie
April 20, 2007 8:17 AM | Link to this
I saw Bill Clinton on Cnn last night and he gave an objective reason for partial-birth abortion. He explained the reasoning pretty well for someone like me. I did not know why people had this procedure and I asked a question but some on this blog do not read before responding.
By chuck
April 20, 2007 8:36 AM | Link to this
Archie, Joe L as usual made no attempt to actually answer your questions. I will.
First, the American Medical Association put out a position paper in 1997 which basically said that there was NEVER a medical reason for performing a partial birth abortion. NEVER. The HEALTH of the mother has NEVER been an issue requiring Partial birth abortion over other methods…NEVER. That is a pretty strong statement from the AMA. If you want to really see how despicable this practice is, here is a website for you:
http://www.priestsforlife.org/partialbirth.html
If you google partial birth abortion pictures, there are numerous sites that show photographs of aborted BABIES. Any woman who can look at these photos and call these children lumps of tissue are nothing more than heartless, cruel, ….you know. I would challenge EVERY woman to take a look at the PHOTOGRAPHS of actual abortion VICTIMS and tell me that these are not babies. Go ahead WOMEN. I DARE YOU.
Also, from one of the providers of this procedure: In 1992, Dr. Martin Haskell presented his paper on this procedure at a Risk Management Seminar of the National Abortion Federation. He personally claims to have done over 700 himself (Interview with Dr. Martin Haskell, AMA News, 1993), and points out that some 80% are “purely elective.” In a personal conversation with Fr. Frank Pavone, Dr. Haskell explained that “elective” does not mean that the woman chooses the procedure because of a medical necessity, but rather chooses it because she wants an abortion. He admitted to Fr. Frank that there does not seem to be any medical reason for this procedure. There are in fact absolutely no obstetrical situations encountered in this country which require a partially delivered human fetus to be destroyed to preserve the life or health of the mother (Dr. Pamela Smith, Senate Hearing Record, p.82: Partial Birth Abortion Ban Medical Testimony). http://www.priestsforlife.org/testimony/brendatestimony.html
I’ll weigh in more when I have more time today.
By Archie
April 20, 2007 9:00 AM | Link to this
Thanks, Chuck but after viewing the website you listed and listening to Bill Clinton, I side with Joe L. and Kimberly on this one.
I have enough information to form an opinion and I believe most women would not elect to have this procedure unless they felt it was the best thing to do at the time. Please read posts in entirety because I am pro choice but I am a christian and I think we all should try to do the right thing,sometimes. I do know someone that had an abortion so I am not flippant about that situation. I think if more people really understood the what and why of a situation then people would support a certain decision.
By Motorola ringtones
April 20, 2007 9:36 AM | Link to this
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By Monica
April 20, 2007 10:01 AM | Link to this
I found the 2003 Partial Birth Abortion act online, thanks to npr.org, for those interested:
http://fl1.findlaw.com/news.findlaw.com/hdocs/docs/abortion/2003s3.pdf
According to the original ban in 2003, the partial-brith abortion only refers to a living fetus:
…the term ‘partial-birth abortion’ means an abortion in which— (A) the person performing the abortion deliberately and intentionally vaginally delivers a living fetus until, in the case of a head-first presentation, the entire fetal head is outside the body of the mother, or, in the case of breech presentation, any part of the fetal trunk past the navel is outside the body of the mother for the purpose of performing an overt act that the person knows will kill the partially delivered living fetus; and (B) performs the overt act, other than completion of delivery, that kills the partially delivered living fetus…
If I interpret the above correctly, the term partial birth abortion does not apply to a woman who endures the tragedy of a baby dying in utero and prematurely delivering the baby’s body. So, no, 3D, you don’t have to have your stomach sliced open.
By kimberly
April 20, 2007 10:22 AM | Link to this
Hi Archie, I’m glad you came to a reasonable understanding. I hope we can realize that we cannot measure truth, knowledge, or information by the number of GOOGLE hits you receive when researching something. (Thanks Chuck for directing us to the wealth of agenda-driven “data” on the internet.) I wish I could have explained it as well as BC did for you, but I’ve never been able to believe that a woman or doctor would choose to do something like that without great personal angst and a darn good reason. The argument “Loose women just want a convenient way out” is just not based on the reality of most people, IMO.
By the way, I’m officially calling B-LLSH-T on Chuck’s 1997 AMA statement claim. If that was retrieved from the AMA, please cite the authors and date of publication so we all see for ourselves. “Priests for Life dot Org” is not a valid source for medical position statements, Dude.
By 3 D
April 20, 2007 10:27 AM | Link to this
Thank you Monica that’s good to know. But what if the fetus becomes terribly sick or deformed & is going to die? Would I have to wait till it dies inside me first?
I certainly have no issue banning PBA if there is another procedure available that did not included slicing up my stomach. Which would included cutting through my stomach muscles etc. I do realize the chances that I would ever be in that situation are very very slim, but we all know pregnancies don’t go well for many many women. Since we are talking about something that very well could kill us, we need to know all of our options.
Chuck shut your man mouth & stay away from women’s reproductive organs.
A 6-8 week old fetus is nothing but a clump. I know this for a fact. I also know for a fact that the anti woman sites use older fetus’s photos for their 6 week old photos.
TEll me Chuck, why are men like you so obsessed with women’s vagiina’s?
I think I’d like to control your scrotum. Hand it over you are obviously not responsible enough to have it.
By chuck
April 20, 2007 10:35 AM | Link to this
Archie…that says a lot to me. You think that it is perfectly okay to deliver a baby EXCEPT for its little head, Take a pair of scissors and punch a hole in that LIVING BABY’S HEAD and suck out its brains, EVEN THOUGH ONE OF THE LEADING PROVIDERS OF THE PROCEDURE AND THE AMERICAN MEDICAL ASSOCIATION BOTH SAY THAT IT IS NEVER MEDICALLY NECESSARY, That it is MORE dangerous to the woman than other types that are NOT as barbaric, and that it is almost always perfomed on healthy women and healthy babies…
AND, knowing that the nervous system of that baby is almost fully developed and ABSOLUTELY FEELS THE PAIN OF THIS PROCEDURE, you still think that it is okay.
That’s really sad ARCHIE. I have to say that if that is the case, my level of respect for you has definitely gone down. I guess the holocaust and eugenics are alright also. There is a real sickness in this world.
By Monica
April 20, 2007 10:43 AM | Link to this
I can’t answer that question to your satisfaction, 3D. I would say that as tragic as it is, you should wait and either deilver the baby, or wait until the baby is no longer living in the womb. I understand that most on the blog don’t agree with me, but I see a fetus in the womb as a human being with rights to live, even if said fetus has a life expectancy of 0 after it is born. Also taken from the Partial Birth Abortion Ban Act of 2003:
The vast majority of babies killed during partial-birth abortions are alive until the end of the procedure. It is a medical fact, however, that unborn infants at this stage can feel pain when subjected to painful stimuli and that their perception of this pain is even more intense than that of newborn infants and older children when subjected to the same stimuli. Thus, during a partial-birth abortion procedure, the child will fully experience the pain associated with piercing his or her skull and sucking out his or her brain.
I can’t justify inflicing pain on an unborn baby simply because he is deformed and will die eventually.
By Archie
April 20, 2007 11:01 AM | Link to this
Chuck, either you are not as old as you claim or you must be pulling my leg with your last response at 10:35. You do not sound mature because you purposefully gave me an agenda-driven website. My initial question was asking for a definition of partial-birth abortion and why do people do it? Several posters did not read the question correctly and took swipes at me but all I really wanted was an objective,objective answer. I got a really good explanation from Bill Clinton last night on CNN and that is what made me side with Kimberly and Joe L. Joe L did give some good info yesterday but he was a little biased. Chuck, you know full well I am pro-choice and I am going to look at both sides of an issue so don’t ever give me an agenda driven website. Just give me straight facts.
By Monica
April 20, 2007 11:14 AM | Link to this
So Archie, what did Clinton say on the subject?
By chuck
April 20, 2007 11:23 AM | Link to this
Additionally, don’t think that this is the end in the abortion battle. I personally won’t be satisfied until this dispicable practice of abortion is ended for all time.
3D or should I say Whiley, shut your woman mouth. The fact that you are a woman is more likely to cloud your opinion on this issue and make you less objective than I am. What about a 10-12 week old?
What a milestone. We’ve gotten to the point where women are now just as barbaric as men. What a wonderful moment in our history.
By Mara
April 20, 2007 11:23 AM | Link to this
one of the most even-handed explainations of D&X that I’ve come accross - http://www.religioustolerance.org/abo_pba1.htm#why
the site describes the procedure and why it may be done as well as outlining some of the disinformation that BOTH sides of the debate have perpetrated. Seems to be pretty balanced and truthful…
Just a relevant little snippet - A committee of the American College of Obstetricians and Gynecologists (ACOG) thoroughly studied D&X procedures in 1996. They reported: “A select panel convened by ACOG could identify no circumstances under which this procedure…would be the only option to save the life or preserve the health of the woman.” (now that part is the section cited by chuck, But he didn’t give the entire story. The report went on…) They also determined that “an intact D&X, however, may be the best or most appropriate procedure in a particular circumstance to save the life or preserve the health of a woman, and only the doctor, in consultation with the patient, based upon the woman’s particular circumstances can make this decision.” Their statement was approved by the ACOG executive board on 1997-JAN-12
I bolded the part I thought was most relevant to the discussion.
By Archie
April 20, 2007 11:32 AM | Link to this
Former President Clinton said he had someone in his administration that was pro-life that had the procedure and there was another lady in his administration that went thru something as well. He said he vetoed that bill twice while president and he said that bill does not represent pro-life. He gave an example as to why someone would have the procedure done. I was looking for someone to tell me why without being a smartass about it and Clinton did just that. I looked at Chuck’s website and it had some facts but it was easily agenda-driven. Basically,Clinton said the pro-life people in his administration supported his decision. Between his clarity and my little research I formed an opinion that sides with Kimberly’s.
By chuck
April 20, 2007 11:34 AM | Link to this
Obviously you did not look at the website at all. While it may have an agenda, the quotes were from ABORTION PROVIDERS WHO ARE STILL PROVIDING ABORTIONS. They are not pro-lifers at all. The documents are easily verifiable by going to the actual sites of the AMA and the NYT. This is just a site that happened to collect them INTO ONE PLACE TO MAKE THEM EASY TO FIND.
I’ve got t say your last post was hilarious. You want to talk about maturity? You think BILL CLINTON IS OBJECTIVE.
hahahahahahahahahahahahahahah. I’m falling on the floor.
By chuck
April 20, 2007 11:40 AM | Link to this
Mara, those ARE ALMOST contradictory statements. I see the nuance of difference, but those same abortion providers that I cited above said that there was no circumstance in which this would be the SAFEST procedure. Tell me then Mara, If this procedure is NEVER the safest, HOW COULD IT BE THE BEST?
HAHAHAHA. Clinton has no political agenda. After all his wife is not trying to get the left wing vote in democratic primaries. NO NOT AT ALL!!!
By Archie
April 20, 2007 11:44 AM | Link to this
Thanks Mara, you answered my initial question accurately with the link that you posted. Now that’s the kind of post I wanted to see. Good,good job Mara.
By chuck
April 20, 2007 11:52 AM | Link to this
BTW Archie, the answer to your initial question about the definition was ABSOLUTELY on point. That website defined the procedure with no bias at all, and the DIAGRAMS were medical diagrams of the PROCEDURE ITSELF. It is very obvious that you did not go the the site but arrived at your opinion based on the bias you already admittedly have, which is that you are pro abortion. You have convinced yourself that a BABY is just a clump of cells so you can do anything you want to with it. You aren’t trying to learn about it, you just want someone to confirm WHAT YOU ALREADY BELIEVE.
By 3D
April 20, 2007 11:53 AM | Link to this
Chuck women will NEVER be as barbaric as men. NEVER. Men will never have control over our reproduction ever EVER again. In the next election you will see a HUGE change in office.
Abortion is NEVER GOING TO BE DECIDED BY YOU OR ANY OTHER MAN. It is a WOMAN’S MEDICAL PROCEDURE that is OUR RIGHT. OUR RIGHT to decide our OWN LIVES.
Shut your ugly, man mouth & get off this blog. You belong on a woman hating bible beating site. The only reason I can think of that a man like you chooses to be here is because you can’t stand women standing up & taking charge & telling it like it really is. How typical your reponses are: you need therapy, you’re a loon, etc.(great come-back !)
Stupid men love to throw that out to try to stop women from “gasp” not being the stepford wife !
Ladies Chuck is an excellent example of what you would be in financial prison with if you don’t have your own career & a way to support yourself.
“If men could get pregnant abortion would be a sacrament”
By ChuckGOAWAY
April 20, 2007 12:00 PM | Link to this
Obviously you did not look at the website at all. While it may have an agenda, the quotes were from ABORTION PROVIDERS WHO ARE STILL PROVIDING ABORTIONS. They are not pro-lifers at all.
ROFL ! Like anything on a pro-life site is logical at all. Unless they admitted to being sexist, dangerous, hate-filled crazy relgious looned we-ain’t adopting your baby get somebody else -we really didnt’ mean for real we’d help you out financially if you had that kid cause it ain’t white & perfect.
By MAYNARD-COX
April 20, 2007 12:12 PM | Link to this
Abanamat! In vina veritas! 119 Array
By chuck
April 20, 2007 12:13 PM | Link to this
3D/whiley, I didn’t say anything about you needing therapy or being loony, but if you are getting that a lot from people who know you…maybe you should listen.
Based on your last post though maybe I should join the group pointing you toward mental health providers, seriously.
By NetBanker
April 20, 2007 12:17 PM | Link to this
I’d like to control your scrotum. Hand it over you are obviously not responsible enough to have it. ROFL! That is PRICELESS!! I must say that is probably the BEST equivalent argument that I’ve heard and I agree. If men get a say in what happens with women’s uteruses, then women should have equal control over a men’s testicles.
The fact that you are a woman is more likely to cloud your opinion on this issue and make you less objective than I am. Chuck…how can you claim to be objective on the topic when you specifically stated ” I personally won’t be satisfied until this dispicable practice of abortion is ended for all time.” You are NOT objective.
By Mara
April 20, 2007 12:17 PM | Link to this
thanks, Archie.
chuck - you misread or puposely misunderstand. The board agrees that there has never been a situation where D&X is the ONLY option, but there are situations where it is the BEST option.
By chuck
April 20, 2007 12:25 PM | Link to this
Read it again NetB. I didn’t claim to be objective. I am definitely NOT objective when it comes to this issue.
Mara, that was not the point of what I said. What I said was that the leading practitioners of this procedure said it was NEVER THE SAFEST PROCEDURE. Read my question again. I asked How, if it is never the SAFEST, could it ever be the BEST procedure in a particular case.
By Mara
April 20, 2007 12:26 PM | Link to this
What would the picture look like if abortion was re-criminalized? Let’s look at the situation in Mexico right now, where they are debating the decriminalization of abortion-on-demand - http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/04/14/AR20070414007752.html?nav=rssemail/components?nav=slate
Mexico outlawed abortion in 1931. But it created an exception, allowing abortions for rape victims. The law did not set a cutoff date for the procedure, meaning those women can have abortions at any time, even eight months into a pregnancy.
There are few abortion prosecutions in Mexico, where a university study estimated there are 1 million abortions a year. The rich either go to the United States for abortions or to private clinics in Mexico, where their doctors are the sole judges of whether the procedure fits the parameters of the law. The poor, who can seldom get abortions at public hospitals, go to what critics refer to as back-alley “charlatans,” who openly advertise their services.
Abortion rights activists say as many as 3,000 deaths in Mexico each year are due to botched abortions, making it the fifth-leading cause of death among women. As many as 10,000 women a year are hospitalized because of complications from abortions, activists say.
You see? The rich will continue to abort as they please but the poor, whose choice to abort is often made for emotional, economic or opportunity reasons, will be forced to carry to term. Upon birth of the kid they will then be vilified (by the very folks who legislate their reproductive choices) as “welfare queens” and “foodstamp millionares” who shouldn’t be having babies if they can’t afford to raise them. And that isn’t even touching on those who will blame the kid for “ruining their lives” and end up mistreating their unwanted child.
By Question
April 20, 2007 12:52 PM | Link to this
Is that why there are so many Illegal Aliens from Mexico?
By Mara
April 20, 2007 12:53 PM | Link to this
chuck - I saw nothing on the report that indicated that D&X is any less safe than any other proceduew. In fact, the OCAG says that there is a “medical consensus that intact D&E is safest and offers significant benefits for women suffering from certain conditions that make the potential complications of non-intact D&E especially dangerous.”
ACOG, btw, is “The American College of Obstetricians and Gynecologists” a national medical organization representing over 51,000 members who provide health care for women. I’ll take their consensus over your cherry-picked opinion statements any day. And if you want to see what THEY have to say about the SCOTUS decision - http://www.acog.org/fromhome/publications/pressreleases/nr04-18-07.cfm
one quote: “It leaves no doubt that women’s health in America is perceived as being of little consequence.”
By Jack
April 20, 2007 12:58 PM | Link to this
3D is not Whiley. Whiley may be down on males but she isn’t as abrasive as 3D. Could be our 4 legged friend.
By Monica
April 20, 2007 1:04 PM | Link to this
ACOG, btw, is “The American College of Obstetricians and Gynecologists”
The first time I saw the acronym in your post, Mara, I was wondering how the Atlanta Committee of Olympic Games had anything to do with abortion! :)
By Mara
April 20, 2007 1:05 PM | Link to this
oops. bad link pasting there. Sorry.
http://www.acog.org/fromhome/publications/pressreleases/nr04-18-07.cfm
or google ACOG, go to the official site, and click on “Press releases” at the left side of the site.
sorry for the inconvenience
By chuck
April 20, 2007 1:10 PM | Link to this
AND, NetB, while I may not be objective on this issue, it does not mean that I have checked my common sense at the door. I’m not alone on this issue either. The decision by the court reflects the wishes of 70% of the American people. It’s my job to convince as many of the other 30% as I can, but I don’t need to make anything up to do that. The facts speak for themselves.
By kimberly
April 20, 2007 1:17 PM | Link to this
Good info, Mara! I’d like to suggest another step in the “what-if” scenario: enforcement. Will Sheriffs’ departments form special investigative groups to police the uteri in their communities? How much will that cost? If a woman is known to be pregnant, then appears without a child months later, will there be a knock at her door by uniformed officers so she can answer a few personal questions? How hard is it to write a data-mining program that correlates debit card usage with the purchase of pregnancy tests and other pregnancy-related items? (Answer: not hard. CitiCorp already knows more about you than your own mother.) And if they only investigate and prosecute doctors, won’t they still have to violate HIPAA to use patient records as evidence? What affect will this have on liability insurance, licensing, and ultimately, the decision of bright students to enter medicine in the first place? And will they prosecute the poor girl who almost dies in an alley? What kind of jail time will she be looking at, and what affect will that have on our already over-crowded prison system? And who will support almost-dead-in-an-alley woman’s existing children that she was so afraid she couldn’t feed that she sought an abortion? And all the other unwanted kids born in increasing numbers. What do those orphanages in Romania cost? Do we want one in every county? Raise your hand if you want MORE of your taxes going to parentless-kids!
You want laws restricting individual rights? Present logistics or seriously… shut the heck up, ‘cause you have NOTHING.
By Mara
April 20, 2007 1:18 PM | Link to this
Monica - LOL! you remind me that it IS Joke Friday…
A census taker in a rural area went up to a farmhouse and knocked. When a woman came to the door, he asked her how many children she had and their ages.
She said, “Les’ see now, there’s the twins, Sally and Billy, they’re eighteen. And the twins, Seth & Beth, they’re sixteen. And the twins, Penny and Jenny, they’re fourteen…”
“Hold on!” said the census taker, “Did you get twins every time?”
The woman answered, “Heck no, there were hundreds of times we didn’t get nothin’.”
(thought about paying homage to todays topic with some “dead baby” jokes, but I figured some people would get really offended, so I reconsidered out of sheer liberal PC-ness. LOL!!)
By 3D
April 20, 2007 1:29 PM | Link to this
The decision by the court reflects the wishes of 70% of the American people.
More than 50% of the population is female. Take out the religious Stepford wife vote, Christian woman who have had abortions but won’t admit it, the majority is still very much prochoice. I don’t mean this in a man bashing way but men have absolutely no business dictating to women what reproductive choices should or should not be available.
Don’t forget most men are prochoice. Most men realize that without it the issue of forced fatherhood is just about guaranteed for all men. Think of the child support nightmare THAT would be.
Chuck go away women don’t want you here.
By Monica
April 20, 2007 1:53 PM | Link to this
Actually Chuck, I think you add some dimension to the blog. I think that your method of delivery isn’t always the best, but then again, whose is? 3D doesn’t speak for all women when she says that women don’t want you here.
By GOB
April 20, 2007 1:55 PM | Link to this
AND, NetB, while I may not be objective on this issue, it does not mean that I have checked my common sense at the door.
I think there are a few of us here who would question the validity of that claim…
By JokesOn
April 20, 2007 2:04 PM | Link to this
If men get a say in what happens with women’s uteruses, then women should have equal control over a men’s testicles.
They do.
A male CANNOT have his testicles removed, personally (self mutilation) or medically due to laws passed by congress which is made up by males and females who represent the population (once again, males and females)
Jack, You damn well it is whiley and she HAS always been that abrasive. She evan recommended that all males be castrated and that we are all (that statement includes you) evil.
Whiley,
You already cannot have a doctor remove your uterus purely because it is your body, so your argument of “it’s my body” has long been nullified.
women will NEVER be as barbaric as men. NEVER
You do know that the mother and aunts hold the girls down while female circumcision takes place right and are the main proponent of this ritual?
Heck, just watch jspringer for the horrendous catfights to see exactly how vile women can be.
By kimberly
April 20, 2007 2:06 PM | Link to this
Frankly, I’m glad Chuck posts here. He reminds me of the danger and insanity of a significant portion of the population I actively avoid. Chuck helps prevent complacency by reminding me regularly that there are indeed lots of people who would f—- me over (fellow Americans and fellow human beings too) for whatever preacher says, regardless of the logic or consequence. Men who claim to know what God thinks, and force that belief on others…. Heh. If I were so arrogant, they’d put me in my place right quick, now wouldn’t they? We must never forget the danger of the fundies, and that their judgment, in their minds at least, is ALWAYS upon us. Thanks, Chuck!
By NetBanker
April 20, 2007 2:09 PM | Link to this
Excellent points, Mara!
Chuck…How does one reconcile support for a war which involves killing (including innocent lives of civilians) while also being against abortion which involves killing? If all killing is equal then one must be either oppose all killing or support all killing. If all killing is not equal, then one must recognize that not all abortions are equal as well.
Personally, I’m all about choice because each person’s circumstance is different and it’s not my business to make a life altering decision for someone else. Ultimately, when considering terminating a pregnancy it all comes down to choosing the lesser of the evils IMO (just like elections). Even when it comes to PBA, is the momentary pain of the procedure on the fetus ultimately less traumatic than a possible slow, painful death that is dragged out over several hours or days or longer?
Why is it that we think nothing of humanely ending an animal’s pain or suffering, but will keep humans hooked up to machines so that we can prolong their agony? Where is the compassion in that? Since the abortion discussion is ultimately about how we approach life/death shouldn’t it be expanded to include euthanasia? In the pro-life mind is there a distinction between life and alive as there is in mine? Let’s take Terri Schiavo as an example. I saw a human body that was alive, but no life. Would giving birth to a ‘Terri Schaivo’, for example, really be pro-life?
By chuck
April 20, 2007 2:11 PM | Link to this
Gob, Bite me.
Thank you Monica. I don’t worry too much about the opinions of lunatics.
This is the 3rd time I have tried to post these links. Maybe the 3rd time is the charm:
KEY DOCUMENTS ON MEDICAL ISSUES RELATING TO PARTIAL-BIRTH ABORTION
Most of these documents require the free Adobe Acrobat Reader:
● Illustrations, certified as accurate by eminent medical authorities, of the typical partial-birth abortion method (in the sixth month). http://www.nrlc.org/abortion/pba/PBAImages/PBAImagesHeathersPlace.htm
● The term “partial-birth abortion” — you can look it up in medical dictionary HERE.
● What eminent medical experts told Congress about the pain that partial-birth abortion causes to the baby. http://www.nrlc.org/abortion/Fetal_Pain/index.html
● 1992 paper in which Ohio abortionist Dr. Martin Haskell explained step by step how to perform the method, and why he prefers it.
● Original 1993 American Medical News interviews with Dr. James McMahon (inventor of partial-birth abortion method) and Dr. Martin Haskell (author of the famous 1992 instructional/promotional paper). http://www.nrlc.org/abortion/pba/AmericanMedicalNews1993.pdf
● A revealing 1993 interview with Dr. Haskell in Cincinnati Medcine: http://www.nrlc.org/abortion/pba/Haskell%20Cincinnati%20Medicine.pdf
● 1995 American Medical News article containing interviews with abortionist Warren Hern and others on medical issues surrounding partial-birth abortion: http://www.nrlc.org/abortion/pba/AMA%20News%201995%20Hern.pdf
● President Clinton claimed appeared with a group of women who, he claimed, had needed partial-birth abortions to save their lives or prevent grave physical health damage. Read the real reasons in this transcript of a 1996 radio debate between NRLC’s Douglas Johnson and one of the women: http://www.nrlc.org/abortion/pba/JohnsonAdesinterview041096.html Read what medical authorities say about such cases here: http://www.nrlc.org/abortion/pba/pbafact13.html
● She was a “pro-choice” nurse until she witnessed a partial-birth abortion. Read her account here. http://www.nrlc.org/abortion/pba/pbacampaign.html
● The head of the National Coalition of Abortion Providers tells The New York Times that the method is common and “in the vast majority of cases… is performed on a healby mother with a healthy fetus that is 20 weeks or more along.” (1997) http://www.nrlc.org/abortion/pba/PBA%20NYT%20lied.pdf
● 1995 letter from emininent medical authority Watson Bowes, professor of fetal and maternal medicine at the University of North Carolina, on medical issues pertinent to partial-birth abortion: http://www.nrlc.org/abortion/pba/Bowes%20on%20disputed%20issues%201995.pdf
● Former Surgeon General C. Everett Koop on partial-birth abortion (1996): http://www.nrlc.org/abortion/pba/Koop%20on%20partial-birth%20abortion%201996.pdf
● 1997 letter signed by numerous professors of obstetrics and other medical authorities in support of ban: http://www.nrlc.org/abortion/pba/PHACTtoACOG.pdf
● American Medical News report: head of abortion-providers association repudiated untruths on partial-birth abortion (1997): http://www.nrlc.org/abortion/pba/AMAFitzimmons1997.pdf
● Letter from American Medical Association endorsing 1997 version of ban, calling method “not medically indicated” and “not good medicine.” http://www.nrlc.org/abortion/pba/amaletter.html or in PDF: http://www.nrlc.org/Federal/AMAendorsesPBA_ban.pdf
By NetBanker
April 20, 2007 2:14 PM | Link to this
The first time I saw the acronym in your post, Mara, I was wondering how the Atlanta Committee of Olympic Games had anything to do with abortion! LOL!! I thought the same thing.
By lozen
April 20, 2007 2:16 PM | Link to this
I remember well when abortion was illegal. In the 60’s a friend of mine almost died after a back alley abortion. She was white and the father was black in a day when she would have been spit at on the street if they got married, and called a wh—e if she had a mixed race child! She couldn’t afford to raise a child. Now, Chuck and ilk would say then she shouldn’t be having sex. And this is their bottom line anyway; women should not have sex unless they belong to some man. This is the first step for them to make abortion illegal at any time and that’s why it’s so upsetting.
By lozen
April 20, 2007 2:22 PM | Link to this
Kimberly, your 2:06 is so true. Follow the money as NetB says, and follow the religious ideology on moral positions and the worth of women.
By Jack
April 20, 2007 2:37 PM | Link to this
Maybe JokesOn. I don’t recall Whiley posting under her name in a long time. Most of the time whenever a female on this blog makes statements like that someone blames Whiley everytime. It’s a blog. Who knows?
By Lyrazel
April 20, 2007 2:37 PM | Link to this
You all need a joke bad.
This is all I got:
Thought for the day: There is more money being spent on breast implants and Viagra today than on Alzheimer’s research. This means that by 2040, there should be a large elderly population with perky boobs and huge erections and absolutely no recollection of what to do with them.
Enjoy. Happy Friday
By Monica
April 20, 2007 2:44 PM | Link to this
Now, Chuck and ilk would say…
Off-topic question: why do liberals or non-religious conservative types always describe conservatives or religious conservative types as having an “ilk?”
By chuck
April 20, 2007 2:55 PM | Link to this
Lozen, I think you should follow your own advice…FOLLOW THE MONEY. In the abortion realm MONEY drives everything. These clinics don’t make money by getting women to HAVE A BABY. They get money from abortions.
By JokesOn
April 20, 2007 2:58 PM | Link to this
If the “it is my body” is totally sound, why have tons of psychological screening for sex changes plus the mandatory (year+ I think?) wait?
By Just Wondering
April 20, 2007 2:58 PM | Link to this
If “Liberation” is so great, why are all the “Liberated Women” I know so unhappy when they find themselves approaching old age alone? Not a put-down, just a question.
By Joeywashere
April 20, 2007 3:00 PM | Link to this
Pretty Cool Place. I like your style too.
Cya again, Joey
By Jack
April 20, 2007 3:01 PM | Link to this
Hi Monica. Everyone has an “ilk”.
By chuck
April 20, 2007 3:02 PM | Link to this
BTW, a fun little statistic for you. 39,000 women who have had an abortion are members of the National Association for the Repeal of Abortion Laws (NARAL).
245,000 women who have had abortions are members of National Right to Life.
By JokesOn
April 20, 2007 3:06 PM | Link to this
Another off-topic question:
Why to the extremes (on both ends) have the largest/loudest say in these matters when they are the minority (as well as least objective)?
By Monica
April 20, 2007 3:18 PM | Link to this
Wow, today reminds me of the good old days; there are so many posts that my computer takes FOREVER to refresh the page!!
By JokesOn
April 20, 2007 3:20 PM | Link to this
“Why to” should read “why do”
By kimberly
April 20, 2007 3:22 PM | Link to this
Chuck, for which service do doctors bill more money? (a) Pre-natal visits, tests, and hospital v-delivery with no complications: upward of $5,000? Can anyone confirm that? More for C-sections. (b) First trimester abortion: around $500? Can anyone confirm that? Hmmmm…. Maybe not every decision a doctor makes is about money.
Regarding your 254,000 statistic: How many women had abortions but feel no need to join an organization opposing a woman’s right to do what they did? Your numbers mean little if you can’t compare them to those who don’t regret it. Any idea? Of course not. Their actual lives mean nothing to you, ‘cause “Preacher said that the bible said….” By your own admission, that’s all the info you really need anyway. Why bother with the PRETENSE of presenting actual data? We’re not your 8th graders.
By Joeywashere
April 20, 2007 3:31 PM | Link to this
Pretty Cool Place. I like your style too.
Cya again, Joey
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April 20, 2007 3:44 PM | Link to this
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By Humbelina_Diaz
April 20, 2007 3:55 PM | Link to this
Abanamat! In vina veritas! 119 Array
By Mara
April 20, 2007 3:58 PM | Link to this
Hi ya GOB!
Monica - originally “ilk” meant “coming from the same location, area, etc”. Now we use it as a synonym of “type”. In this context, I often use “ilk” to refer to a group that is basically “coming from the same place” of thought. There are many reasons that people object to abortion, from the religious, to the misogynistic, to the paternalistic. By refering to chuck and his “ilk”, I generally mean holier-than-thous who want to legislate my moral behaviour because their belief system says it shouldn’t be done. Their objections come from the same school of though, thus they are “ilk”. :^)
chuck - 245,000 women who have had abortions are members of National Right to Life
Any idea on whether these women joined before their abortions or after them? Just wondering about the hypocrite factor. It might explain the reports about some women feeling guilty, depressed, and ashamed. I mean, if you think abortion is wrong and you have one, of course you’re gonna feel guilty and ashamed. And if these same women are the ones who end up calling Right-to-life help desks, well no wonder they think that ever abortion leads to mental anguish.
why are all the “Liberated Women” I know so unhappy when they find themselves approaching old age alone
because humans are social animals and nobody wants to feel like they’re un-loved? That is assuming, of course, that you actually know these friendless unhappy women who have no support system and thus end up “alone”. Where would one find the poor, sad, depressed lonely old libbers? The old folks home?
Ya see, there are quite a few “liberated” women I know that are perfectly happy NOT being the mother, maid, cook, and prostitute that their erstwhile mates demanded they be. I also know a pair of ladies who have shared quarters since they were young. They’re straight, liberated, and extremely outgoing. Neither has married, though I know both have had opportunities. They have the flower club, bridge, canasta, the arts, mentoring, and man-friends when they get the urge. They are well into their 50’s, maybe into their early sixties, and they seem quite content. So I have NO idea why the women YOU know are sad and depressed…
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By Just Wondering
April 20, 2007 4:29 PM | Link to this
Ya see, there are quite a few “liberated” women I know that are perfectly happy NOT being the mother, maid, cook, and prostitute that their erstwhile mates demanded they be.
Oh, I see, “Liberated” means avoiding the brutish men that all the “chicks” seem to like. And here I thought that was simply common sense.
By erynmarch
April 20, 2007 4:34 PM | Link to this
(going back to original topic)
hi, everyone!
i’ve been lurking around reading for a long time (a year+) and have frequently wanted to put my 2 cents in, but i get exhausted reading a certain split personality’s comments (no offense). but this topic is a little close to home for me.
here’s the simple version of my story: i went to college and got a job, worked a few years, got married, had a kid. for a while (pre-baby) husband tried to talk me into quitting my job and wandering around like hippies for a couple of years, but i knew if i ever quit my job i would have a hard time getting back in. after having my daughter, i was even more adamant about not quitting work, because no matter what, i had a responsibility to provide for her.
unfortunately for me, after a few years my husband decided he needed to explore a little, trusting that i could handle our child and that he would be able to come back if/when he figured out whether he wanted to or not. (complicated, but he decided “not”).
i have said to myself and friends many times that if i hadn’t chosen to stick with my job, it would have been bad for both my daughter and me because after husband checked out, we were pretty much on our own, financially speaking. what would i have done if i hadn’t been able to provide for us? apply for welfare? move in with my parents?
i like to think i was pragmatic enough to know that no matter how much you love someone or how great life is going along, sometimes things happen that you don’t expect. i have learned the hard way that you should only count on yourself to take care of yourself. just in case.
sorry this is getting so long, but my personal situation also makes me want to point out this scenario:
so, let’s see… if a mother’s place is in the home raising her children, and she has a daughter but no son, her primary purpose is to raise her daughter, whose primary purpose will, in turn, be to stay at home and raise her children. if her daughter only has a daughter(s), and so on, this seems to cancel out any worth the women have, since sons are the only children that should be encoraged to do something besides stay home and do the important work of raising children.
i guess what i’m trying to say is that if people really think that a mother’s primary responsibility is to only raise children, it only works if the women have sons. otherwise it’s an excercise in futility. does that makes sense at all?
By kimberly
April 20, 2007 4:38 PM | Link to this
Maybe “Liberated” means we don’t want to feel that there are strings, conditions, hoops, unspoken obligations, strict standards by which everything we do will be judged and rated, and an overall sense of being trapped, in order to share and enjoy the company of a man we like, but don’t know yet if we love or want to spend forever with.
And when men express the same reservations, are they “liberated,” or just feeling what men naturally feel?
By Its As Simple As 1-2-3
April 20, 2007 4:43 PM | Link to this
(1) for a while (pre-baby) husband tried to talk me into quitting my job and wandering around like hippies for a couple of years
(2) unfortunately for me, after a few years my husband decided he needed to explore a little
(3) i like to think i was pragmatic enough to know that no matter how much you love someone or how great life is going along, sometimes things happen that you don’t expect
Did you figure it out, erynmarch? Because it’s really called “common sense”. The clues were there, honey.
By Not Quite As Simple
April 20, 2007 4:45 PM | Link to this
Maybe “Liberated” means we don’t want to feel that there are strings, conditions, hoops, unspoken obligations, strict standards by which everything we do will be judged and rated, and an overall sense of being trapped, in order to share and enjoy the company of a man we like, but don’t know yet if we love or want to spend forever with.
Um, you wouldn’t happen to be a Gemini, would you?
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By JokesOn
April 20, 2007 4:50 PM | Link to this
for a while (pre-baby) husband tried to talk me into quitting my job and wandering around like hippies for a couple of years, but i knew if i ever quit my job i would have a hard time getting back in
Sounds to me that you two had quite different world views from the beginning.
I have no judgment on your choice besides it sounds like it was the best one for you and cannot be used as a formula.
I have a good friend who got married with the understanding that they were never going to have kids. His wife stopped taking BC on purpose 3 years after marriage thinking that he was too emotionally invested to really leave. Well, he filed/got a divorce from her but now pays alimony and child support.
Although I find it ruthless of her to do what she did, my stance on personal accountability stands when talking to him no different than it does with women on the blog: He should have had a vasectomy.
The lack of trust in humans is across the board. It just happens that I date women and not men.
By MrRogers
April 20, 2007 4:52 PM | Link to this
It’s never too late for There goes the neighborhood.
By Not Quite As Simple
April 20, 2007 4:53 PM | Link to this
And when men express the same reservations, are they “liberated,” or just feeling what men naturally feel?
The best I can come up with for that one is that the “beast” in both men and women enjoys the “no-strings” sex. It’s exciting, makes you feel like life is worth living. Yet, at the same time, we all should have a “good-guy” in us that realizes that a string of one-night stands isn’t meaningful, and will likely have bad consequences. The solution? Find an intelligent partner who knows how to “play games” at the appropriate times, but knows how to be an adult the rest of the time. Of course, you must be willing to do the same in return.
By 3D
April 20, 2007 5:01 PM | Link to this
You do know that the mother and aunts hold the girls down while female circumcision takes place right and are the main proponent of this ritual? Heck, just watch jspringer for the horrendous catfights to see exactly how vile women can be.
ROFL YOU ARE SUCH A MORON WHAT are you talking about? AH YES the ramped crime women are committing against each other is so out of hand ! You’re a joke. Catfights? yes so much worse than aggravated assault, sexual assault & those little things men can’t stop doing. WATCH OUT FOR THE DANGEROUS CATFIGHTS ! Can you name ONE FEMALE that has ever entered a school, mall or place of business & committed mass murder?
HELLL NO you can’t. You’re such a man-moron. Get off this blog you are such an idiot. The only reason to have you around is to use you as an example as to why sexism, violence against women & control of all females still exists. But mostly you are one of many men that ARE the reason nothing will ever be done about the crime & sickos out there, becuase first you have to admit that most men are out of control & OH NO WE CAN’T ADMIT THAT !
Go get yourself “fixed” Chuck.
By erynmarch
April 20, 2007 5:02 PM | Link to this
what in the world was i thinking when i finally decided to post?
yes, i should have known better than to marry a free spirit and have a baby. i’m doing fine now, so i guess it’s a moot point. i was just trying to answer the question about stay-at-home moms risking their futures by saying that “yes, i think they do.”
yours truly, fresh meat
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April 20, 2007 7:38 PM | Link to this
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