Woman to Woman

By chuck

November 27, 2006 08:03 AM | Link to this

Of course it is censorship…and what is wrong with that? We are not talking about GOVERNMENT censorship. We are talking about INDIVIDUAL censorship. That is something all of us do EVERY DAY. I don’t watch “Desperate Housewives”. I think it is trash and CHOOSE to not watch it. I don’t watch hockey, or God Forbid, Soccer.

The fact of the matter is that the chicks made a decision to exercise their free speech rights. It is disingenuous at best for them to criticize others for doing the same thing. They should be applauding those former fans for upholding their American ideals. They definitely should not be whining about it and playing the victim. If they are victims, they are victims of their own hubris. They thought that they could say whatever they wanted to without consequence. They were obviously wrong. Beginning with English Tea, we have a long history in this country of as Shaunti put it, “talking with our feet”. Say what you want to, but remember that others will express themselves as well.

By Mara

November 27, 2006 08:12 AM | Link to this

…attack the President of the United States – and the country — during a time of national tragedy

Natalie Maines didn’t “attack” the president or this country by saying that she was ashamed that Dubya came from her home state of Texas. She didn’t “attack” anyone. She expressed her own personal opinion! But we are talking about “conservatives” here, and they’ve made it perfectly clear that ANY criticism of Bush (or his policies) is to be considered an “Attack on America”. You can’t, simply can’t, love your country and disagree with King George at the same time. You just can’t!!! (How very…patriotic…to equate personal opinion with an actual ATTACK on the president AND the country.)

What a disgusting, anti-freedom, anti-American way, totalitarian kind of attitude. Unfortunately, at that time, it was rampant (and rabidly enforced) in Red State, ‘merika. From Shaunti’s comments I see it’s still prevalent in some “conservative” circles.

And the only “national tragedy” that we were dealing with at the time was Bush’s War of Choice in Iraq. And I do agree that it is indeed a “national tragedy”.

By Brian Curtis

November 27, 2006 08:17 AM | Link to this

Individuals refusing to listen to the Dixie Chicks are expressing an opinion—media organizations exerting their influence to suppress (or promote) specific political views are guilty of censorship.

I have no problem with independently owned stations making such calls… but Clear Channel is basically a monopoly with a profound level of influence, and a correspondingly higher responsibility to the public. Power = responsibility to use it for the public good, and suppression or stifling of someone for their political views is NEVER good for the public.

Really, it’s not so much the act of silencing the Dixie Chicks that’s most troubling… it’s the existence of a few, ultra-powerful media giants controlling all our information flow that’s the problem. Their very existence is censorship.

By Mara

November 27, 2006 08:26 AM | Link to this

chuck - I think it is trash and CHOOSE to not watch

Exactly! And the difference between your personal boycott of DHW and the organized boycott against the Chicks is that YOU don’t demand that your cable company refuse to offer it to those who do watch it. As Diane put it “I never demanded that media companies keep (Woody Allen’s) work from the rest of the viewing public.” THAT’S the difference between censorship and personal choice.

Once the media companies began dictating that their affillates could not play the music…that’s when it became worrisome.

By Mike

November 27, 2006 08:29 AM | Link to this

As usual, liberals practice a double standard. Free speech is only worth defending when you are defending some liberal viewpoint. She even goes so far as to label folks boycotting the Dixie Chicks as “un-American”.

I am so sick of liberal hypocrites like Diane Glass.

By Jack

November 27, 2006 08:40 AM | Link to this

It was her right to open her big mouth, it is our right not to buy or listen to their music. I had to laugh when they came out afterward and cried about free speech while wiping tears. Boo hoo.

Organized boycott? Reaching a little there Mara.

By 2D

November 27, 2006 08:41 AM | Link to this

The last time I checked, no radio station, or group of radio stations is required to play any artist. Could I charge censroship if I cut an album and had Clear Channel tell their affiliates not to play it? Of course not. These are private entities who have the right to broadcast any artists they choose, so long that they fit whatever “decency” guidelines are set by the FCC. If they don’t want to play the Dixis Chicks, then tough noogies for the Dixis Chicks.

Besides, who is to say that Clear Channel was not acting in a way that would be the most profitable to their radio stations? They know their target demographics and wouldn’t do anything to cut (or at least not cut too deep) into the bottom line. If not playing the Dixie Chicks were to cause serious financial pain, Clear Channel wouldn’t cut them off. However, not playing them will cause either minimal or no financial heart ache, or possibly increase their their profits.

By Brian Curtis

November 27, 2006 08:43 AM | Link to this

Mike: I’m so sick of the usual hypocrisy of the far right trying to pretend that corporations are the same as individual citizens.

They insist that corporations have no responsibility to the public, that they have the right to lie, that they have the right to buy and sell political influence, and on and on. Free speech is for CITIZENS, not corporations. Especially not media corporations who have an obligation to inform the public without injecting their own preferences and spin.

By Gil Gibson

November 27, 2006 09:05 AM | Link to this

The left has no idea of what censorship is. If someone disagrees and doesn’t buy their stuff, it’s censorship to them. Unless a radio station plays every song published, someone has to make a decision on what’s in and what’s out. They can do that for any reason they choose, including a singer’s making disparaging political comments in a foreign country. Dixie Chicks were free to say whatever they wanted and radio stations, even corporations, can choose to play whatever they want.

By kt1066

November 27, 2006 09:09 AM | Link to this

Certainly radio stations and people have a right to play or listen to their choice of performers, but it sure is just childish to get so angry at a performer’s opinion that you refuse to listen to or play her music. Just like a little kid grabbing up his toys and going home because he doens’t get his way all the time. There may be good reasons to boycott some businesses, but this isn’t one of them.

By chuck

November 27, 2006 09:09 AM | Link to this

Oh give me a break BC:

Cowboy Take Me Away (Martie Seidel, Marcus Hummon)

I said I wanna touch the earth I wanna break it in my hands I wanna grow something wild and unruly

I wanna sleep on the hard ground In the comfort of your arms On a pillow of bluebonnets In a blanket made of stars

Oh it sounds so good to me

Cowboy take me away Fly this girl as high as you can Into the wild blue Set me free oh I pray Closer to heaven above and Closer to you closer to you

I wanna walk and not run I wanna skip and not fall I wanna look at the horizon And not see a building standing tall

I wanna be the only one For miles and miles Except for maybe you And your simple smile

Oh it sounds good to me Yeah it sounds so good to me

Cowboy take me away Fly this girl as high as you can Into the wild blue Set me free oh I pray Closer to heaven above and Closer to you closer to you

I said I wanna touch the earth I wanna break it in my hands I wanna grow something wild and unruly Oh it sounds so good to me

Cowboy take me away Fly this girl as high as you can Into the wild blue Set me free oh I pray Closer to heaven above and Closer to you closer to you

Closer to you Cowboy take me away Closer to you

This is informing the public?!?!?

This is ENTERTAINMENT, NOT POLITICS. They haven’t refused to do NEWS stories about the chicks, they just made a decision to NOT PLAY THEIR MUSIC. There is a HUGE difference. In fact, if Natalie says something else as stupid as she did before I’m sure Clear Channel will play it OVER AN OVER.

Bottom line…the Bottom Line. If 72% of your customers tell you that they are switching the channel if you play the Chicks, what would YOU DO?

Mara

Would you have said the same thing about the Selma bus boycotts? What about the lunch counter sit ins? In other words, are ALL BOYCOTTS BAD or just the ones you don’t agree with?

By Brian Curtis

November 27, 2006 09:22 AM | Link to this

That’s why I said this is not specifically about the Dixie Chicks… it’s about media ownership being concentrated in a few, powerful hands that control what we see and hear.

Can anyone honestly pretend that this LACK of choice is somehow a good thing for our society?

By lovelyliz

November 27, 2006 09:29 AM | Link to this

People are entitled to listen to the music they want to listen to and buy or not any CD they want.

When people call a radio station to request a certain artist which fits the format of that particualr station and they won’t play it because their corporate offices have said no that is censorship.

By Monica

November 27, 2006 09:30 AM | Link to this

Thanks, Chuck. Now I can’t get that song out of my head!

I wonder if anyone will boycott Elton’s music now that he has denounced religion. Will anyone go see Mel Gibson’s new movie after his anti-semitic remarks? Just wondering…

By Archie

November 27, 2006 09:32 AM | Link to this

It does seem as if Diane wants it both ways. I mean you want liberals to seem more open-minded,well, that means you have to be open to the fact that people may not like what you have to say and boycott your ideas. I think the backlash against the Dixie Chicks is an example of free speech because although a person can say what they want they cannot control people’s reaction to their words. There is a local restaurateur here in SC who choose to fly this huge confederate flag and many stores here have pulled his sauce from their shelves and of course some have boycotted his stores,well, I abhor his prejudiced views and evidently so do certain businesses but just because it’s a liberal in the Dixie Chicks case doesn’t mean the reaction cannot be the same.

By Mara

November 27, 2006 09:35 AM | Link to this

Jack - are you saying that the demands made on radio stations not to play the albums wasn’t organized? There were NO conservative groups demanding the black listing of the Chicks?!

Two words, Jack…Free Republic.

By Chilao

November 27, 2006 09:35 AM | Link to this

Best show on TV, Desperate Housewives, wouldn’t miss it. LOL. Season Two was so-so, but they are matching Season 3 with Season 1 quality.

The Dixie Chicks were Playboy’s December interview, why I asked last week if anyone had heard the new one, seems they had some slow times there, but now, with their new album, have learned they do not need to cater to the ultra-country-based(and all that implies) and could not be doing better. I will have the new one(CD) eventually.

k.d. laing, who I adore, came out with being anti-beef and gasp a lesbian (not too smart if she wanted to cater to strictly country) Did not hurt her at all, and allowed her to move away from strictly country, musically.

There was no difference in the individual censorship of The Dixie Chicks and Diane’s distaste for anything Woody Allen, a conclusion I was able to come to BEFORE the Kim Song(was that her name?) daughter thing. LOL

BC has a definite point with the Consolidation of Airwaves thing, definitely a form of censorship.

By Chilao

November 27, 2006 09:40 AM | Link to this

oh The Dixie Chicks, or more correctly, Natalie Maines there, (the one who “dissed our Prez” in “our time of national tragedy”? wtf is that, she said it on the eve of the Iragi regime change fiasco, big national tragedy for sure, it seems to be turning out), have NO REGRETS and would say it again.

By chuck

November 27, 2006 09:46 AM | Link to this

Exactly Archie. Well said.

I want to say this about corporations Brian, because your ideas about them are really dangerous to our way of life. Just because a business is “public”, does not mean that it has to act in the public interest. All that is meant by a corporation being publicly held is that the ownership resides in the hands of PRIVATE stock holders. Anybody can own shares if they can buy them. It does NOT mean that it belongs to the PUBLIC at large.

A business whether held privately or “publicly” through PRIVATE stock holders has one goal. To make MONEY for the owners. They should be able to maximize their profits through ANY LEGAL MEANS.

By Jack

November 27, 2006 09:48 AM | Link to this

Mara. Two words, Love Ya!

I lost respect for “Sir” Elton when he re-wrote Candles in the Wind to fit Lady Di. Monica, don’t forget what Kramer did. Ha! I saw him with Jesse “race whore’ Jackson by his side. He didn’t look too happy.

By Still Digesting Dinner

November 27, 2006 09:49 AM | Link to this

Considering that radio stations play 1000 songs of 10000 released/year one really needs to wonder who is doing the censorship. Publicity—even bad publicity is courted by the entertainment industry-thus all the ruckus about censoring the band created a buzz that sent many into the stores JUST SO they could have this controversial CD. Dixie Chicks album sales skyrocketed because of this ban. They got rich and the public kept buying as long as the censorship activity was on. Now that this is really old news the band has sort of fallen back into accepting the cold finger of reality—the entire music industry is suffering from a backlash of an easily bored audience.

If only 1000 songs are played radio audiences hear the same pop-stars/country twangers/polite rappers and car commercials. Audiences turned off the radio and have done so in droves thus satellite radio flourished for awhile (until the bill came). There is not a radio station in the country that is not hard hit by listener apathy. Websurfing teens know there is FREE music on the web—and its the stuff that would never be played on radio and downloads are skyrocketing as private mp3 devices substitute for radios in cars. Listeners only want traffic reports, news or weather—they have their own music taste and its far more eclectic than the entertainment music industry can cope with (same as it ever was). They can get news, weather, sports and music they like on their phone with no commercial interruption—and they do.

Americans don’t like being told what to do—whether its reading—or listening—or speaking out—or voting. We are unafraid of censors—we archive downloads of 1.8 seconds of Janet Jackson’s breast from our Tivo because someone corporate executive declared it obscene! We are our own censors and competent in our boredom to flip a dial, turn off a show, toss a book in a fire and vote for change.

As for Woody Allen: for years he made movies about characters like himself. No one commented on how an old man like Allen scored so many younger women—he was just a likable putz finally getting some! When it became a reality it grossed out a lot of his audience. Gosh gee golly whiz—when old men marry teens its ok in the movies, but not in reality…so when Harrison Ford’s next co-star is but 21 in the movie…thats ok unless he really marries her, right? Maybe this censorship of Woody Allen movies is just angry old women rage—I mean no one banned Frank Sinatra when he married Mia Farrow—did they? Mia was 21 (29 years difference) and younger than his daughter Nancy—-ah nostalgia.

By Jack

November 27, 2006 09:55 AM | Link to this

I saw a picture of the new bond girl. She looks 14 & 80 lbs. I’ll take Ursula any day.

By SusieHomeMaker

November 27, 2006 10:08 AM | Link to this

Sometimes, just for the heck of it, I wish Sunni & Cher (Shaunti & Diane), would discuss real issues that are affecting our country. The Dixie Chicks just ain’t it.

By SusieHomeMaker

November 27, 2006 10:14 AM | Link to this

What grossed everyone out about Woody Allen was NOT that he was with a younger woman. It was the fact that the younger woman was raised by his current girlfriend, was calling him “daddy” (no snide comments!), he knew as a child growing up, AND he was still sleeping with the MOTHER when he started sleeping with the DAUGHTER.

Come on!! A blind, retarded, three legged GOAT would have a problem with that!!

By Jack

November 27, 2006 10:26 AM | Link to this

Yes Susie but would a sheep?

By Chilao

November 27, 2006 10:27 AM | Link to this

The new Bond is Good, in Casino Royale, best since Connery. IMO. And she is no lightweight, you would have to see it, maybe you saw on older pic. LOL Eva Green is 26.

You know you are getting older when the people who are younger than you look YOUNGER than they really are. LMAO

By Chilao

November 27, 2006 10:33 AM | Link to this

The new Bond is Good, in Casino Royale, best since Connery. IMO.

and I say that having really liked both Moore and Bronson as Bond.

By Jack

November 27, 2006 10:36 AM | Link to this

You can say that again Chilao!

By Brian Curtis

November 27, 2006 10:45 AM | Link to this

Chuck: But since incorporation is a privilege extended by government, and always for a stated purpose, to be reviewed or revoked or suspended if they act counter to the public interest… well, it all adds up to this: Yes, they DO have a responsibility to the public interest.

They’d like to claim otherwise; they’d like to ACT otherwise, and they use their economic/political influence to prop up their insistence that they have no obligations to American society. But the fact remains, incorporation is entirely dependent on government beneficence, and We the People can set the terms of what those “legal activities” are.

*If we don’t like them polluting our air and water in the pursuit of profit, we can set environmental regulations (which they hate).

*If they exploit their workers, we can establish child-labor laws, overtime pay, a minimum wage, a 40-hour workweek, and the right to unionize (all of which they hate).

*If they endanger their people in the pursuit of profit, or employ sweatshop labor in other countries, we can set OSHA and import laws (which they hate).

*And if the media airwaves get consolidated into a few, powerful hands that control what we see and hear to boost their profits… we can use anti-trust legislation and the Fairness Doctrine (which they hate) to dictate what they are and are not allowed to do.

It’s up to US, not them. And that’s what they hate the most: democracy.

By lozen

November 27, 2006 10:53 AM | Link to this

Sometimes I feel such deja vu! This is just like the Vietnam debacle. “Our country, love it or leave it!” “A coward that won’t go fight for our country oughta be in jail.” “Anybody that criticizes our prezident should be black listed.” It’s really sad.

By Tim

November 27, 2006 11:00 AM | Link to this

Is there really that little going on in the world that we have to worry about what a Dixie Chick said a few years ago??? good lord… but they still have some great music… some of the most talented musicians to come out of Nashville in a long time… and man oh man “I’m Not Ready to Make Nice” dang that will get you going… love it

and in the words of the great and wise Forrest Gump “that’s all I got to say about tha’ut”

hope all of y’all had a great Thanksgiving… I did… my nana still makes the best Red Velvet cake in the world

By SusieHomeMaker

November 27, 2006 11:08 AM | Link to this

Lozen: It’s a lot like Vietnam but in a big threatening way it’s worse than VietNam. At least in VietNam we didn’t have Mao extremists blowing up civilians outside of their country; just for being non-believers.

By 2D

November 27, 2006 11:12 AM | Link to this

Brian… Incorporation is a privilege? Are you trying to tell me that owning a business is a privilege extended by the government?

Not a business owner myself, my understanding of being incorporated is simply a way to protect your personal assets from your business assets. It is nothing more than legalese.

I would agree with you that the government has the ability and the responsibility to state what constitutes legal activities, but that is a very fine line for the government to tread. Anything the government does to restrict a business must show a significant public interest (like the ones you stated). Comparing a radio station’s play list to those ideas and concepts, however, is a crock of pooh. Likewise, IMO, it is far fetched to utilize the Fairness Doctrine with a station’s playlist. Otherwise every controversial artist would state they should have equal airtime on a radio station which is simply not going to nor should ever happen.

On a side note, I find it interesting how you want to use and defend the idea of Democracy when it comes to restricting what the business world can and can’t do. But daggumit, when that same Democratic process is used to restrict something you see as a personal freedom you blow the process to Hades. You can’t have it both ways. Either Democracy rules the day or it doesn’t.

By SusieHomeMaker

November 27, 2006 11:13 AM | Link to this

Tim: Sometimes I think Shaunti and Diane have meetings about their columns that goes like this:

Shaunti: So, what do we want to do for the next six columns for our blog?

Diane: I don’t know…….(twirls hair)

Shaunti: How about we take a firm pro/con stand against the Dixie Chicks, NASCAR, The Bible, and gay TV Ads on primetime?

Diane: I don’t know…..(twirls hair)

By 2D

November 27, 2006 11:19 AM | Link to this

Susie… Weren’t extremists been blowing up people for being non-believers well before this Iraq disaster ever started?

It’s not like the people were all peachy and happy and living in harmony before this. If that were the case we wouldn’t have acted to start with. Right?

While I’m not ever going to completely defend the goings on over there, I will likewise never say that the Iraq debacle has been the root cause of all the great evil. It was a mess before we went in. It’ll be a different mess when we leave. Would we better off without going in??? Not sure. I wonder if the same things happened before, but we get more coverage now that the US military is involved.

By Lily Toad

November 27, 2006 11:22 AM | Link to this

Diane twirling hair — too funny!

By Jack

November 27, 2006 11:22 AM | Link to this

2D you are cool. Ditto.

By Chilao

November 27, 2006 11:23 AM | Link to this

and here I thought Shaunti would be the hair twirler. LOL

And here I thought my inquiry last week about The Dixie Chicks new album was the catalyst for this topic. Maybe it was someone else reads Playboy as well. LMAO Now the big question would be, was it Shaunti or Diane, that was reading Playboy?

By Lily Toad

November 27, 2006 11:28 AM | Link to this

I’ll bet Shaunti reads her husband’s Playboy for the articles and sneaks peeks at the ‘girls’.

By Jack

November 27, 2006 11:36 AM | Link to this

Probably Shanti. (but she only reads the articles)

By Jack

November 27, 2006 11:38 AM | Link to this

I can’t spel today. Sorry Shaunti.

Was Shaunti sitting round the shanty?

By Jack

November 27, 2006 11:39 AM | Link to this

Lily beat me to it. :)

By Brian Curtis

November 27, 2006 11:41 AM | Link to this

2D: I think that comes from a misunderstanding of what “democracy” is.

Our system is set up to guarantee personal freedoms as much as possible, freeing us from government interference in whatever personal choices we make.

Corporations are not persons; they’re an entirely different category of entity, a legal fiction that has no rights whatsoever, only specified privileges. The purpose of every corporation is spelled out in its initial charter—which is basically an application to be recognized and allowed to exist. The states have power (sadly, seldom used) to suspend or revoke those charters whenever a corporation steps out of line.

And we, of course, are the ultimate source of the state’s power to do so. Corporations have no freedoms; PEOPLE do.

By Monica

November 27, 2006 11:44 AM | Link to this

~continuing Susie’s dialogue…

Shaunti: Hey how about I write your column for you this week, and you write mine for me? Won’t that freak out all those extremists?

Diane: Like, okay!

By SusieHomeMaker

November 27, 2006 11:59 AM | Link to this

Yes they were blowing up people. However they were blowing up people in their own countries, not crossing borders and blowing people up, (World Trade Center).

The Bombing of the WTC was not the impetus that started the War in Iraq. Supposedly, the “WMD’s” were.

By Chilao

November 27, 2006 12:23 PM | Link to this

as Shaunti sitting round the shanty?

Unlikly, however JACK might have been (assuming Jonathan Edwards, was that his name?) hahahahahahaha.

By chuck

November 27, 2006 12:25 PM | Link to this

2D, you have to understand that BC is a Socialist. He does not understand that we have a FREE MARKET, CAPITALISTIC SYSTEM, and that system is what made America GREAT.

Apparently, he also has some kind of reading comprehension issues as I clearly stated:

A business whether held privately or “publicly” through PRIVATE stock holders has one goal. To make MONEY for the owners. They should be able to maximize their profits through ANY LEGAL MEANS.

By Chilao

November 27, 2006 12:26 PM | Link to this

wow, Jonathan Edwards is still touring, going to be in Austin and Dallas in FEB but most gigs in New England/northeast.

sit around the shanty and get a good buzz on (we assume white lightning moonshine, OF COURSE!…LOL)

By 2D

November 27, 2006 12:28 PM | Link to this

Brian… Interesting argument. In fact, I like it a whole bunch. Unfortunately, I don’t think it stands up in the current environment because I don’t believe the government treats corporate entities much different than individual citizens when it comes to restricting freedoms. The government can and will restrict the freedom of private citizens if and when it determines that restriction is in the public interest.

For example, there is a drinking age of 21. That is a blatant restriction of individual freedom. The Fed even forced Louisiana to comply by taking away their federal highway money.

Another example is eminent domain. One of the most basic rights in America is that of private property, yet the government can take it from you if it is deemed the public benefit outweighs the private interest.

For your theory to hold water the government should have little to no intervention over a person’s private affairs. If the government can apply the same process to individuals as it can to corporations, then we as citizens, in essence are not different in the eyes of the government.

By 2D

November 27, 2006 12:36 PM | Link to this

Susie… Not really sure where you are going with your last remark. In fact, I think you simply validated my point.

Incidents like both WTC bombings, the USS Cole, strikes against airplanes, Israel and civilians were occurring well before we went into Iraq. I think we can agree on that fact. Therefore we can agree that brutal terrorism existed well before we into Iraq.

Your first post, the one I responded to, implied that becasue of our presence in Iraq, we now have monstrous acts of people blowing up civilians outside of their own country. I simply pointed out those monstrous acts were happening well before we went into Iraq, so it is unfair to place blame for them on our presence there.

Again, I am not defending the positions this administration has taken there, but please do not make them the scape goat for all ills in the region. That is entirely unfair and untrue.

By Kevin

November 27, 2006 12:43 PM | Link to this

2D and BC - keep up the good work. I have enjoyed reading your opinions. The discussions on this blog are certainly more interesting than the lame topic.

Susie and Monica - I think your dialogue is ROTM!

By 2D

November 27, 2006 12:43 PM | Link to this

Chuck… I don’t think is constructive labeling anyone a Socialist. Brian hasn’t, at leaast not today, indicated that all wealth should be divided equally amongst the people of our country. He has merely indicated that the government should pass and enforce more laws restricting corporations than they currently do.

If that makes him a Socialist, then I guess he is. However, while I’m sure we disagree on the minimum wage issue and taxation strategies, there are many laws he referes to (i.e. OSHA, environmental, etc.) that I whole heartedly agree with.

By Chilao

November 27, 2006 01:09 PM | Link to this

In some circles, the evil government coming up with the Sarbanes-Oxley Act, putting all that terrible hardship on oh-so-honourable corporations, is merely an act of Socialism. Now, never mind, if corporations like Enron or WorldCom had actually BEHAVED ethically, there never would have been a NEED for Sarbanes-Oxley.

I work with people who call the regulations related to having 300,000 hogs fattening up for slaughter, all those regulations related to the disposal of their fecal matter, just more examples of the evil government being Socialistic. Seems big corporation should be able to dump all that fecal effluent(thank you Mara, not a word I generally use), into the river should be QUITE acceptable, since that is what is needed to maximize Profits.(no cost related to dumping into the river)

so take the label Socialist with a healthy dose of Salt there. LOL

unless of course you believe publicly-traded corporations should be able to lie to manipulate stock prices OR corporations should be allowed to fill the rivers with swine fecal matter.

By big al

November 27, 2006 01:11 PM | Link to this

To say that the public’s reaction to the comments is “censorship” is preposterous, it makes no sense, and it just doesn’t fit. The little Dixie Chippy can say whatever she cares to (and the liberal media publicizes everything she says)and no one stops her. It is not censorship, its “consequences.” She said something decent people abhor and, as a result, they stay away from her. That’s the way it used to be with having children out of wedlock and now, without the consequence of being shunned by the decent folk, close to 40% of children in this great nation are born out of wedlock, a condition that does not bode well for the future. In the liberal mind, Teddy should not have to suffering consequences for leaving that poor, pregnant girl to drown; Kerry should not be called to task for his misrepresentation of his service record, and Maines should not have to pay a price for being disrespectful to our President.

By Renee

November 27, 2006 01:26 PM | Link to this

Mara - you and BC hit the nail on the head (early at that).

Susie and Monica too funny!!

I too am wondering about these topics….

By NetBanker

November 27, 2006 01:32 PM | Link to this

Hey kids! Well I see everyone must be well rested after a long weekend ‘cause all y’all are gettin’ feisty right quick!!

Hey TIM! Nice to ‘see’ you!

Yet another stoooooopid topic! I don’t really have much of an opinion on this one. The Dixie Chicks said something that offended a bunch of people and the people let them have it. I do think the reaction to their statement was WAAAAAAYYY overblown, but not illegal.

I’d just love to smack Shaunti for claiming that a music star with no political influence who stated that she was ashamed that the Prez shared her home state is an ATTACK on the President. WTF kind of reasoning is that?! What kind of namby pambies are conservatives or the President that they couldn’t take something as benign as a statement of shame? Couldn’t they have responded with a really strong round of “Sticks and stones may break my bones, but names can never hurt me” and called it even?! Sheesh!! And in the end Chilao makes an excellent point that they were RIGHT AND they’re making more money than ever.

Mike…READ man, READ! Diane didn’t label anyone. She said “intolerance of legal free speech has always been un-American.”

BC makes some good points about the consolidation of the media in the hands of just a few corporations. We should be concerned about the monopolization (is that really a word or did I just make that one up?) of the media.

Chuck…I agree with what you’re saying about corporations in general, but I do think you need to add in that BC is not talking about corporations in general. He’s talking about companies that control our access to information via use of federally controlled airwaves. I think that does confer at least an iota of responsibility that doesn’t necessarily apply in the same fashion to other types of corporations.

By Lily Toad

November 27, 2006 01:33 PM | Link to this

big al, I bet the right-wing media spent more time publicizing Natalie Maine’s comments than the liberal media.

Never heard that Mary Jo Kopechne was pregnant. And how do you feel about Bush misrepresenting his service during the Vietnam War since he was AWOL from the National Guard?

By SusieHomeMaker

November 27, 2006 01:34 PM | Link to this

I simply pointed out those monstrous acts were happening well before we went into Iraq, so it is unfair to place blame for them on our presence there. OK perhaps I didn’t completely make my argument. What i was trying to say was that we had never been attacked on American Soil before (American Revolution not withstanding) — yes we have been attacked abroad before, but not on American soil.

Again, I am not defending the positions this administration has taken there, but please do not make them the scape goat for all ills in the region. That is entirely unfair and untrue. I didn’t do that. I’m only making them the scapegoat for the current Iraqi mess :)

By kimberly

November 27, 2006 01:48 PM | Link to this

Why do the Dixie Chicks get all the attention? Lots of artists have blasted leaders over the years. Of course Bush has made an easy target by swaggering about. Here’s MY favorite by Incubus: Megalomaniac

I hear you on the radio You permeate my screen, its’ unkind but If I met you in a scissor fight I’d cut off both your wings on principle alone On principle alone

Hey megalomaniac You’re not Jesus Yeah, you’re no f—-ing Elvis Special, as you know yourself, maniac Step down Step down

If I were your appendages I’d hold open your eyes So you would see That all of us are heaven sent There was never meant to be only one To be only one

Hey megalomaniac You’re not Jesus Yeah, you’re no f—-ing Elvis Special, as you know yourself, maniac Step down Step down

Yeah You’re no Jesus You’re not Elvis … You’re no answer

Hey megalomaniac You’re not Jesus Yeah, you’re no f—-ing Elvis Special, as you know yourself, maniac Step down

By Brian Curtis

November 27, 2006 01:53 PM | Link to this

Chuck: It’s not that I misunderstood what you said (about corporations having no responsibilities other than to make money); it’s just that you’re wrong.

Corporations would dearly like us to believe they have no responsibility other than to their stockholders… it would certainly be convenient for them to behave that way. But it’s simply not true.

Corporations are permitted to exist through application for a corporate charter. Their rules of operation—what their purpose is, what their expected scope of functions will be, and what they are and are not allowed to do—are all spelled out in advance. They are also regulated by U.S. laws, and we (through government) have the power to suspend or revoke their charters if they violate those rules.

And since WE set the rules, we can mandate whatever restrictions we want. Ideally those restrictions will be in the public interest—environmental and labor laws, workplace safety regs, union protections, and so on.

Corporations may not LIKE having to serve the public good, but what they like is irrelevant. We have the power (and the responsibility) to dictate terms of operation to them, and they have no choice but to comply or face legal penalties.

By Jack

November 27, 2006 02:00 PM | Link to this

Hi Sweet. I like that song “Drive”

By Brian Curtis

November 27, 2006 02:05 PM | Link to this

2D: Your point—about how corporations are certainly treated as persons, and the rights of citizens being likewise “downgraded” till our standing is about equal to theirs (perhaps less!)—is well taken.

I’m speaking about the IDEAL of how our system is supposed to operate, according to the owner’s manual. Not the corrupt mess we’re dealing with today. But if we lose sight of the rightful power placement—citizens above corporations, media required to serve the public—we’ll forget who really has the power. And that power won’t just lie there unclaimed.

By Chilao

November 27, 2006 02:07 PM | Link to this

I don’t think Maines would have gotten AS MUCH flack over her remark if she said it in the USA or in Texas.

but overseas, in LONDON? Gasp

By Jack

November 27, 2006 02:13 PM | Link to this

See rule #1

By The72John

November 27, 2006 02:13 PM | Link to this

The first day in B-school you learn that the primary function of a corporation is to increase shareholder value. A little bit later you’re introduced to this thing called “Business Ethics”, which isn’t nearly as oxymoronic as it sounds.

“Do whatever you can to make money as long as it isn’t illegal” might have worked during the era of the Robber Barons, but it doesn’t cut it today. Any company with a half-way competent Public Relations department realizes that image contributes as much to shareholder value as daily operations, and tries to act accordingly.

What we’re really arguing about isn’t Socialism vs. Capitalism, though the right wingers love to erroneously play the Socialism/Communism card at the drop of a hat. It’s regulated markets vs. unregulated markets. I hate to break it to the right winger, but the US is not, I repeat NOT a Free Market in the Friedman sense. It is full of regulation that attempts to mitigate the naturally rapacious tendancies of businesses with the common good.

It is absolutely possible to be ethical and profitable at the same time. It is absolutely possible to run a successful business - even a WILDLY successful business - without trampling over one’s employees, without compromising one’s integrity, and without behaving generally like a right bastard.

Unfortunately, there are far too many Chucks out there who think that the totality of Business Ethics is encompassed by “If it’s legal it’s OK”, who never stop for a moment to measure the ethical impact of their policies.

By chuck

November 27, 2006 02:20 PM | Link to this

2D, From Britannica:

System of social organization in which private property and the distribution of income are subject to social control; also, the political movements aimed at putting that system into practice. Because “social control” may be interpreted in widely diverging ways, socialism ranges from statist to libertarian, from Marxist to liberal. The term was first used to describe the doctrines of Charles Fourier, Henri de Saint-Simon, and Robert Owen, who emphasized noncoercive communities of people working noncompetitively for the spiritual and physical well-being of all (see utopian socialism). Karl Marx and Friedrich Engels, seeing socialism as a transition state between capitalism and communism, appropriated what they found useful in socialist movements to develop their “scientific socialism.” In the 20th century, the Soviet Union was the principal model of strictly centralized socialism, while Sweden and Denmark were well-known for their noncommunist socialism. See also collectivism, communitarianism, social democracy.

Having read BC’s comments for over 2 years on this topic, I can say with a high level of confidence that BC is definitely a Socialist according at least to the above definition. He constantly denegrates the free market system, has never said one positive thing that I can remember about business, corporations, etc, and he hates the wealthy. That is a pretty good working definition of a socialist.

BTW, NEVER in any Socialist country, has the total wealth been divided equally among ALL of the people. As a side note that we all should pay attention to, NEVER has there been a self-sustaining Socialist Economy of any size that has lasted as many as 30 years without being propped up by the government or as in the case of the USSR, forced upon the people.

Socialism is a disincentive to work.

As for the porcine effluence, Chilao, read my post again!!!

LEGAL, means LEGAL. If they commit illegal acts, they SHOULD be prosecuted and jailed.

Interesting story in yesterday’s paper. A poultry company in South Alabama? is busing in paroled FELONS to work in the poultry plant because all of the illegals cleared out after 120 of them were arrested.

By Archie

November 27, 2006 02:24 PM | Link to this

I just reread Diane’s argument and she knows that the answer to the topic question is free speech. This situation was just like the barbecue man here in my home state except that this I wish people didn’t boycott the Dixie Chicks. However, everyone doesn’t agree on Bush and thus when you insult him you had better be prepared for the reaction. Not all intolerance is bad. Diane has a pretty weak argument this time.

By Ed Sommers

November 27, 2006 02:35 PM | Link to this

Shaunti Feldhahn’s comments are typical of the “insights” offered by many so-called conservatives. If they don’t like reality, they simply make up a reality they can embrace. In my world, it was not an “attack” when Natalie Maines said she’s ashamed the president is from Texas. Somehow, Shaunti Feldhahn saw that comment as an “attack”. Feldhahn doesn’t bother to explain how or why those words constitute an attack — she simply assumes that there are plenty of jerks out there who will agree with her. Sadly, she is correct about that.

Natalie Maines expressed her idea that peace is preferable to war; she thought it would be better to exhaust the possibilities for peace before choosing war. Our tough guy president had different ideas. We are all now paying the price for his hubris, short-sightedness and ignorance.

The Dixie Chick have lost some fans. I promise you, they have gained some fans too. They may never sell as many CD’s as they did before this controversy started, but they’ll sell plenty of CD’s to fans that appreciate their abundant talent, and fans that admire their courage, their loyalty to each other and to their principles, and to fans who value real freedom — not the brand of freedom endorsed by Neo-con crackpots.

By Jack

November 27, 2006 02:35 PM | Link to this

“It is absolutely possible to be ethical and profitable at the same time. It is absolutely possible to run a successful business - even a WILDLY successful business - without trampling over one’s employees, without compromising one’s integrity, and without behaving generally like a right bastard.”

IE: Truett Cathy - Chik-Fil-A

By Chilao

November 27, 2006 02:41 PM | Link to this

nteresting story in yesterday’s paper. A poultry company in South Alabama? is busing in paroled FELONS to work in the poultry plant because all of the illegals cleared out after 120 of them were arrested

does that mean the price of chicken will come down? I think Felons have to work for ten cents an hour.

Chuck - I was merely repeating coworkers’ views on the evil government’s implementation of obviously SOCIALISTIC tendancies. Hog farms were one example of how terrible it is that government restricts a corporation’s ability to do the Uncle Milty(RIP) maximize-profits thing. And if it is ILLEGAL to do that now, OBVIOUSLY it was a problem at some point. I certainly was not calling YOU a swine-producer. LOL

By Chilao

November 27, 2006 02:43 PM | Link to this

anybody ever have to read Uncle Milty’s(Milton Friedman) crime drama, Murder at the Margin?

By Chilao

November 27, 2006 02:51 PM | Link to this

My apologies, Friedman did not WRITE Murder at the Margin, he was merely the role-model for the economist character IN the novel. Heh, it’s been awhile, but the book IS on my bookshelf.

By SusieHomeMaker

November 27, 2006 03:04 PM | Link to this

Poultry farmers can do that?! If that’s the case, can I get some felons to go over my uncle’s house and cut his grass for 10 cents an hour? I’ll throw in the pool maintenance too!

By chuck

November 27, 2006 03:04 PM | Link to this

Here is the complete story link and an exerpt:

http://www.ajc.com/metro/content/metro/stories/2006/11/25/1126METstillmore.html

The Mexican population in Stillmore has plummeted since officials first visited the Crider plant in May, town residents said. Immigration agents estimated that 700 workers were using fraudulent IDs. The company began checking documents and confronting employees. Many were fired and hundreds of illegal immigrants left town on their own throughout the summer.

Then, over Labor Day, federal agents rounded up and deported more than 125 illegal immigrants working at the Crider plant or living in Emanuel and surrounding counties.

This does support my assertion of a few months ago that the best way to address the illegal immigration problem is by cutting off jobs. Unfortunately, I doubt that those illegals went back home. They probably just moved to a town where the employer looks the other way. Just think what would happen if we did this nationwide.

By Chilao

November 27, 2006 03:10 PM | Link to this

Saw this as a news item on the telly, apparently there is a 100-percent peaceful anti-war group in Seattle that is being investigated by the military for being POSSIBLY a threat to the military.

So one of the founders, who has a son in the military in Iraq, comes out with “So my son is over there to protect my rights to free speech and freedom of assembly, so those same rights can be considered a Threat to the military? HUH?”.

By chuck

November 27, 2006 03:11 PM | Link to this

BTW BC, for every ENRON there are HUNDREDS of corporations that take their roles in the community seriously. In the Atlanta area alone there are more corporate good citizens than you can shake a stick at. Another way of saying, “The sky ain’t fallin’ Chicken Little”

By Chilao

November 27, 2006 03:15 PM | Link to this

Just think what would happen if we did this nationwide.

the price of chicken would skyrocket?
I don’t eat commercial chicken so not an issue for me, but some lower-income folk with lots of kids might have their food bills skyrocket. LOL

By chuck

November 27, 2006 03:16 PM | Link to this

Key here SUSIE…read the post. They are PAROLED felons living in a diversion center in Macon.

By Chilao

November 27, 2006 03:23 PM | Link to this

Soon-Yi Previn is Woody Allen’s stepdaugher/wife.(not KimSong)

By Brian Curtis

November 27, 2006 03:39 PM | Link to this

Chuck: I’m aware of the good corporate citizens, and I’m as glad of their existence as you are.

The difference is, you think corporations should be positive contributors to society if they feel like it. I believe it’s it a requirement, and that we have the power to make it a requirement.

By Jack

November 27, 2006 03:48 PM | Link to this

BC. Should the gov’t require all it’s citizens to be a “positive contributor” to society?

By Jack

November 27, 2006 03:49 PM | Link to this

Gotta go. Later Tater.

By 2D

November 27, 2006 03:54 PM | Link to this

Brian… What does it mean to be a positive contributor? I would venture a guess that everyone wants businesses to be positive contributors to society, but they simply differ on the definition of that phrase.

Do you mean paying fair wages? What is a fair wage?

Do you mean paying a liveable wage? What standard of living is a business required to pay their employees to sustain?

Do you mean provide charitable contributions? Does that mean money? If so, is it a percentage? Time? If so how much?

Do you mean environmental? Does that mean forcing people to recycle? Purchase certain types of products?

Do you mean healthcare? Does that mean forcing a business to provide healthcare? Provide a stipend for healthcare? Provide multiple options?

I don’t know what you think it means. I only know what I think it means.

The list of questions could go on and on. The point being, some people want the government to solve the problems and set the standards where some people want the market to set the standards. I personally lean toward the latter. If I don’t like the business practices of a particular business, I won’t purchase their products. For example, I saw a terrible story about Perdue chicken and refuse to give them any money through purchase of their product. If everyone did that, then they woudl go out of business.

By Chilao

November 27, 2006 03:55 PM | Link to this

from an amazon review over the latest The Dixie Chicks, Taking the Long Way Home…Hilarious.

By the way, it’s really interesting to read these negative reviews. One guy attacks Natalie for being (allegedly) fat. Some lady says she’d never buy the CD (and therefore hasn’t heard it), but still feels qualified to give it one star. If these are the kind of people who were boycotting the Chicks and causing that whole ruckus … well, I think their level of discourse pretty much speaks for itself. I don’t think we should worry about them.

By SusieHomeMaker

November 27, 2006 03:55 PM | Link to this

Chuck: So?

By Brian Curtis

November 27, 2006 04:06 PM | Link to this

2D: And I lean toward the former, because the larger corporations have enough economic power to not only ignore individual consumer choices (the “market solution”), but the power to influence them as well.

Jack: As I’ve been saying all along, citizens are not corporations. Citizens have rights and freedoms that are not available to corporations, which only have terms and conditions under which they’re permitted to do business.

By 2D

November 27, 2006 04:26 PM | Link to this

Brian… How can larger businesses ignore/influence consumer choices? Businesses cannot force people to purchase their products and they cannot survive without people purchasing their products.

The “market solution” consistently works and will continue to work. Businesses come and go every day because they are no longer patronized by the public. Perhaps it’s because the product is low quality or no longer needed. Perhaps they cannot get enough employees. It may take longer but it happens and is inevitably better for the American economy.

By Lily Toad

November 27, 2006 04:33 PM | Link to this

What’s the big deal about paroled felons working in a poultry plant? They should still be paid at least minimum wage (if the owners are paying legally) and at least they have jobs and aren’t being discriminated against because they are ex-cons.

By Lily Toad

November 27, 2006 04:50 PM | Link to this

Susie, I think Chuck’s point is that only prisoners make 10 cents an hour, not those on parole.

By Chilao

November 27, 2006 04:52 PM | Link to this

That article stated that since all the illegals left, the company has had to raise the starting wage by 40 cents an hour and given incentives/bonuses much earlier.

I tell ya, the price of chicken is going to go through the roof now.

By TramadoL21887

November 27, 2006 06:22 PM | Link to this

I’ve more or less been doing nothing worth mentioning, but eh. My life’s been really bland today. I don’t care. I’ve just been letting everything happen without me these days. That’s how it is.

By TramadoL85922

November 27, 2006 07:44 PM | Link to this

My mind is like a bunch of nothing, but I guess it doesn’t bother me. I haven’t been up to anything recently. I’ve pretty much been doing nothing to speak of.

By 2D

November 28, 2006 07:38 AM | Link to this

Brian… Last night, I thought of a question I would like to ask you. Why do you so distrust the power of the American consumer to not allow what you call the “market solution” to work?

Your previous answers imply the government needs to step in because the corporate machine would have the ability to unduly influence the system and perhaps even dupe the American consumer. Is that a correct? Do you believe that?

By Brian Curtis

November 28, 2006 08:22 AM | Link to this

2D: Yes I do. I think your faith in the “magic of the marketplace” is exaggerated. When corporations build up to a certain size, they take steps to immunize themselves from market forces.

They stifle competition, file SLAPP lawsuits to silence protests, buy influence to rig favors and loopholes favorable to them, engage in price-fixing and undercutting to crush others in the market, and similar acts. They also hide information that consumers could otherwise use to make informed choices.

It’s not consumers I distrust, it’s the corporations themselves—who, as Chuck has already noted, feel no obligation to anyone but their own executives and stockholders, and would gladly create robber-baron “company towns” again if not for the intervention of government.

Remember: In a totally unregulated “free” market, there is no middle class. The existence of a middle class is an artifact of government intervention in the marketplace.

All of this is a general indictment of unregulated capitalism’s irresponsibility to the society that permits it to operate, but its importance is even greater when it comes to MEDIA companies. Media companies have the greatest responsibility of all to society, because they provide access to information. And when a few media giants control everything we see and hear, there’s little room for democratic discussion.

By 2D

November 28, 2006 08:24 AM | Link to this

Off topic, but here is a great article about Americans and their penchant for giving to charity. Interesting corrolations and results one might not expect.

http://articles.moneycentral.msn.com/News/SurprisingResearchOnCharitableGiving.aspx?page=1

I always knew that we as a society would be better off with private charities providing services rather than the government. My hypothesis revolved more around the idea that private organizations use their money more wisely and efficiently. This article documents even greater and wider reaching benefits. Benefits that can not and will not exist on the same level when the government provides the same services.

By Vern

November 28, 2006 08:32 AM | Link to this

Talented? Give me a break. The Dixie Chicks look like a inbred white trash. The one brunette’s eyes are crossed.

By Jack

November 28, 2006 09:38 AM | Link to this

Off topic: I generally side with the police but it’s too bad that 88 year old lady didn’t make good head shots. You know she was scared to death. If those cops are lying as is suspected, they should rot in Hell.

By TramadoL87689

November 28, 2006 09:38 AM | Link to this

I haven’t been up to anything recently, but so it goes. Such is life. What can I say? Pretty much not much exciting going on to speak of. I haven’t gotten much done lately, but I don’t care.

By 2D

November 28, 2006 09:39 AM | Link to this

Brian… Big business may be able buy influence and immunize themselves from market forces to a certain extent but they cannot do it completely. If noone buys their stuff, then they go out of business. That’s the bottom line and you cannot refute that. Some of the largest, most powerful corporations in this country have gone belly-up due to their lack of sales.

The steel industry has been completely abandoned in this country due primarily to unions and government regulations that drove up operating costs.

The auto industry very well may go belly up due to their high labor costs and inability to produce vehicles (outside of gas guzzling SUVs) that capture the imagination of the American people.

The mainline airline industry (i.e. Delta, United, etc.) is in a terrible pickel due to their labor/fuel/equipment costs and inability to effectively manage their business.

The list goes on and on. So, there isn’t any way you can tell me that the market solution doesn’t work, because it does.

You and I agree that there needs to be regulation. Although, we greatly differ on the types and the degrees. If you want to protect the natuaral environment, working conditions, monopolizations, etc. then by all means, let’s do it. But to regulate anything that arbitrarily sets wages, workforce makeup, prices, etc. interferes with the ability of the business to effectively operate.

One other thing… Government regulation does not create the middle class in this country. The entreprenuerial spirit and work eithic of the population in this country creates the middle class. Individuals starting their own business, working two jobs, working over time, getting an education, buying houses, those are the things that create the “middle class”. The more responsibility you give to the private citizen, the more responsibility they will take for themselves.

That is the biggest difference between, you and me and many of the people on this BLOG. You believe the government is the answer to our country’s problems. It is the savior, the protector, the provider. I believe the individual citizens hold the answers. They can take care of themselves if given the opportuntity and impetus to do so. And the strongest (i.e. Bill Gates, Warren Buffett, Ted Turner, countless entertainers and athletes) will care for those who cannot care for themselves as evidenced by the article I posted before.

Sure there are bad apples, as there are in any human organization, but you cannot stifle the spirit of the many for the ills of the few. We as a society will weed out the bad apples on our own. We don’t need the government to do it.

By The72John

November 28, 2006 09:41 AM | Link to this

It isn’t an either/or proposition, 2D. Independent charitable giving does not prevent government assitance, nor is the opposite the truth.

While Americans are generous, the unfortunate truth is that, as our analysis of risk is swayed by emotion or horror, our giving tends to be the same. Private charities are great, but they don’t provide the general safety net needed to keep people at the bottom of the barrel from falling through the cracks. Government assistance is still needed to address the needs that aren’t the latest cause celebre.

As to private charities being more efficient, that’s debatable. There are plenty of private charities that are deeply inefficient in how they handle money. Groups like the United Way assist in monitoring charities and rating them based on the percentage of funds raised that is actually directed to the cause they claim to support. You’d be surprised by how many charities only spend 10 to 20 percent of available funds on their purpose, and how many spend lavishly on salaries, fund raisers, perks, etc.

As much as you apparently like to believe that people are all well-intentioned and that things will just “work out” if left alone, I think you are terribly naive. The history of the human race is full of greed and selfishness and graft and corruption. I don’t have much faith that we’ve changed that much.

By Monica

November 28, 2006 09:50 AM | Link to this

Hey Jack! I am going to have to wait to hear all the information. Confidential informants are not exactly reliable sources, so I’ll wait until the investigation. My husband is a medic, so like you, I usually side with policeman and firefighters, but there is too much we don’t know yet.

2D and BC, good debate going on here!

By Archie

November 28, 2006 10:05 AM | Link to this

I agree with your 9:41 am post John as it was well written. I was thinking the same way but I won’t add anything.

By Chilao

November 28, 2006 10:05 AM | Link to this

to quote from LilAbner, the musical, Progess is the cause of all Evil, Progress is the cause of it all. Oh, wait, that’s the conservative line. hahahahahaha

Okay, just got the new Dixie Chicks, which came with a DVD as well, the one NBC would not accept advertising for, it being considered politically controversial. Quickly running thru it, I have to consider FLY and HOME, which I have, better, this more generic pop country. Talking Musically. Now if you were more into lyrics, it might be considered better. Really liked their bluegrass aspect, bluegrass being so MUSICALLY intricate.

But in the bin, coming out in 2006, was a Pickin’ on the Dixie Chicks, VOL2, a compilation of mostly prior bluegrass tunes. and on the jacket was “No protest here”. So being shunned/censored by country-music fans causes ADDITIONAL CD releases? hmmmmmm. LOL

Funny, but the tall lean lanky brunette, Emily Robinson(cross-eyed?), is my most preferred, and all are Mommies now, giving new meaning to the term, MILF Cougars. LMAO

By Chilao

November 28, 2006 10:12 AM | Link to this

I donate to some BigCatFeline rescue charities, but then researched on-line, and learned that a couple had about 20 percent of donations actually going to the cats/rescue-place. So I cut them out, and stayed with ones that put a MUCH HIGHER percentage to the actual animals/facility. Since I was not interested in funding the lifestyle of some fund-raiser SUIT.

By Jack

November 28, 2006 10:16 AM | Link to this

None are MILFs IMO

By Lily Toad

November 28, 2006 10:21 AM | Link to this

What I hate is when charities send you “presents” and then follow up with another plea for funds based on the unwanted present(s). I can buy my own wrapping paper and greeting cards, thank you. If you are an animal rescue organization, spend my contributions for the animals, not in sending me junk.

By kimberly

November 28, 2006 10:27 AM | Link to this

I thought the lady was 92…. In any case, the Supreme Court did away with the “knock first” requirement last spring, in which they’d knock and say “This is the Police, open up!” So for all we know, the woman simply opened fire at whomever burst her door down, thinking it was likely the scary neighborhood thugs. She may not have known it was the Police when she reacted to the sudden, violent entry to her home. This is exactly what I thought would happen when I read the news of the ruling.

By Chilao

November 28, 2006 10:31 AM | Link to this

None are MILFs IMO

Because of their looks, (too)young age, music, or politics? LOL

By 2D

November 28, 2006 10:37 AM | Link to this

John… I am not naive, I simply tend to trust one organization (private enterprise) over another (centralized government).

While reading your post you provided a couple of items that I think would find the common ground for vastly opposite persons like you and myself.

First, you mentioned that the government needs to provide a general safety net because private charities cannot. I could actually go with you on that front. While I do believe that private charities can provide everything our society needs, if the government wants to take the position of a safety net, then so be it. However, I think you, me and everyone could concede that our government provides much more than a safety net. If we could work to make it a bare bones, safety net approach, then we could agree. how to wean a population dependent on others to be more dependent on themselves is a tricky business.

Second, I believe the vast majority of charities work on the basic needs (i.e. food, shelter, clothing, job assistance) and not the cause celebre. Some individuals may take up those specialized causes, but it is not the main focus of most.

Lastly, while I do not believe that all people are well intentioned I do believe that the cast majority of them are, even people with whom I rarely agree, like yourself. The “bad apples” will cause havoc and some heartache, but the rest of us will mitigate them. That POV does mean that I believe everything will “just work out” it means that I believe the goodness of humanity will overcome the evil without government intervention. The government, IMO, quite frankly, causes more problems than it fixes.

By Mara

November 28, 2006 10:38 AM | Link to this

Chilao, Lily Toad - “Best Friends Animal Sanctuary” is a great animal charity if you’re looking for an honest, efficient use of your charitable dollar. And they have pretty nice merchandise if you’re looking for something more than spiritual satisfaction (and tax deductions…)

http://www.bestfriends.org/atthesanctuary/

By The72John

November 28, 2006 10:40 AM | Link to this

to quote from LilAbner, the musical, Progess is the cause of all Evil, Progress is the cause of it all. Oh, wait, that’s the conservative line. hahahahahaha

Here’s a funny story…I was working at a Summer Stock company years ago that performed in a 1500 seat ampitheatre. The stage had sets of towers on both sides that provided entrances and exits and also supported some of the lighting. The towers were home to breeding colonies of bats, and because the theatre was located within the borders of a National Park they were protected. They actually never hurt anyone - the worst they did was make the ladies (sorry, ladies) shriek.

Anyway, to the point…we were actually doing Lil Abner, and during the song that Chilao has referenced, which is a big show-stopper in theory, a bat flew over and…um…did it’s business right on the face of the guy whose solo it is.

OK, that was the story.

By Lily Toad

November 28, 2006 10:44 AM | Link to this

What’s wrong with being cross-eyed?

By Chilao

November 28, 2006 10:47 AM | Link to this

justa playin’ (on the (too) young)

By Jack

November 28, 2006 10:48 AM | Link to this

Because of their looks.

By Second Story Man

November 28, 2006 10:49 AM | Link to this

Who woulda thunk Natalie Manes would become the spokesperson for the planet about W? He’s a shameful disgrace for an american. He’s opened pandora’s box in iraq and everyone knows it. The right is, thank god, going down with W’s ship, and it is proper and fitting that they should do so. Keep defending the boy king, Neo-newts. lovin’ it! When the American People understand the truth about the conspired lies to War, there wont be anything left of the right. They’re already toast, but after the truth comes out, they’ll be burned toast. bwa!

By Chilao

November 28, 2006 10:53 AM | Link to this

O that charity thought, was reading last night in a National Wildlife Federation mag, that cats have passed dogs in the number of pets(in the USA) however cat-haters still outnumber dog-haters 7-to-1. LMAO It was a side-bar on researchers learning nearly all leopards in Malaysia are melanistically BLACK, not a very common thing with leopards in other parts of the world, where most are yellow.

John - hilarious; the sea gulls at Avalon, Santa Catalina Island, do that exact same thing on the strand there to pedastrians, and don’t tell me they (gulls) are not precisely calculating their ‘hits’ down the side of your face. LOL

By Monica

November 28, 2006 11:06 AM | Link to this

Chilao, For some reason, your information about the leopards reminded me of the zebra from Madagascar: “I’m ten years old, and I don’t even know if I’m white with black stripes, or black with white stripes.” Way off topic, I know. Sorry:)

By SusieHomeMaker

November 28, 2006 11:14 AM | Link to this

Monica: On the little old lady incident, if I was in her shoes, I would’ve reacted the same way; no matter that I live in Gwinette in a good suburb, I would’ve felt threatened and shot first and asked questions later. The no-knock policy is ridiculous and IMO will get a lot more people / police killed then the other “announce yourself” policy.

By Jack

November 28, 2006 11:19 AM | Link to this

Dogs have masters, cats have staff.

By TramadoL16759

November 28, 2006 11:22 AM | Link to this

I haven’t gotten anything done recently. I’ve just been hanging out doing nothing. I haven’t been up to anything these days, but it’s not important. Today was a total loss.

By Brian Curtis

November 28, 2006 11:30 AM | Link to this

2D: “That is the biggest difference between, you and me and many of the people on this BLOG. You believe the government is the answer to our country’s problems. It is the savior, the protector, the provider.”

Where are you getting this? I’ve never said that; I said government is useful in shielding citizens from the excesses of capitalism. I categorically reject the Reaganite notion that “government IS the problem,” as though corporations were more trustworthy than elected officials to do what’s in our best interests.

But that’s a far cry from saying that “government is the answer to all our problems.” In fact, it’s more often folks on the right these days who want us to blindly trust government and hand it more and more authority, “in our best interests.” And I’m opposed to that as well.

By Chilao

November 28, 2006 11:33 AM | Link to this

“I’m ten years old, and I don’t even know if I’m white with black stripes, or black with white stripes.”*

I read recently that researchers had established that, I THINK it was black, with white stripes, but don’t remember. LOL

I did see some FOSSAs at a zoo recently(first time), I told a woman next to me who thought they were some kind of cat, that they were the bad guys in the movie, Madagascar. (and added that they eat lemurs …LOL…and were in the mongoose family, which was on the sign at the zoo, I pointed to it)

By Lily Toad

November 28, 2006 11:40 AM | Link to this

The war on drugs is the cause of Ms. Johnston’s death. It is ridiculous to enter a house without knocking just for drugs. The only time such action might be necessary is if someone were holding hostages and it was the only way to save them.

By Jack

November 28, 2006 11:42 AM | Link to this

“In fact, it’s more often folks on the right these days who want us to blindly trust government and hand it more and more authority, “in our best interests.”

This is NOT the view of true conservatives. The current Republican administration is not conservative and that is why they got their a*******e$ handed to them this past election. Can’t wait to see whAt the Democrats will do other than investigate, investigate, investigate.

Before you pounce I would like to say that when they tried to impeach Clinton for the Monica thing, I thought it was a bunch of poo. JFK did more and everyone new it and still loved him. Kenneth Starr should be dis-barred.

By Scalia

November 28, 2006 11:48 AM | Link to this

2D, I am going to disagree about the individuals accepting more responsibility. The problem with society today is that everybody wants to be rich, not work hard, and do the jobs that are beneath them. How many thirteen year old paperboys do you see today? How many fourteen year olds cutting grass in the summer to make some money?

By The72John

November 28, 2006 11:58 AM | Link to this

Can’t wait to see whAt the Democrats will do other than investigate, investigate, investigate

The thing is, I haven’t heard one Democratic leader ever suggest that they would be investigating anything or trying to impeach anyone. All of that talk has come from conservative Talking Heads who seem to be far more interested in creating a negative and false impression of Democratic goals than in fostering that much-vaunted “bipartisanship”.

By Jack

November 28, 2006 12:00 PM | Link to this

Scalia. The undocumented immigrant workers are to blame. When my son’s were teens, they had a hard time getting employment because of the illegals. If you are a business owner who would you hire, a high school student who may or may not show up, or an adult trying to feed their family?

By Chilao

November 28, 2006 12:02 PM | Link to this

actually, the impeachment of Clinton was over his direct perjury to the Grand Jury investigating the Paula Jones issue. Everyone likes to think the real reason was being the ‘lucky guy’ getting kneel-down service from a younger alledged cutie, (which may have been the primary motivation, jealousy, or gross immorality, in other circles..LOL) but the actual impeachment proceedings were over the perjury related to the Paula Jones’ lawsuit.

By SusieHomeMaker

November 28, 2006 12:03 PM | Link to this

2D, I am going to disagree about the individuals accepting more responsibility. The problem with society today is that everybody wants to be rich, not work hard, and do the jobs that are beneath them. How many thirteen year old paperboys do you see today? How many fourteen year olds cutting grass in the summer to make some money?

Scalia: The reason why you don’t see paperboys anymore is because it now a dangerous profession for children. Most people wanted their papers early in the morning, with the advent of the abduction of kids, (remember Johnny Gosch?), it is not wise to send children out early in the morning to deliver papers.

The fourteen year olds cutting grass probably can’t compete with the spanish gardner who does your whole lawn, (edging, clipping, hauling, etc), for $30.00

By SusieHomeMaker

November 28, 2006 12:05 PM | Link to this

Lily Toad — so true.

By Chilao

November 28, 2006 12:07 PM | Link to this

PBS had some thing recently, I only caught part of it, but it was about Robert Kennedy, Martin Luther King, and the events just prior to the Civil Rights Act of 1964. It seems J. Edgar Hoover had both the Kennedys in a tight spot, almost extortion, over JFK’s blatant/public womanizing and both were somewhat afraid of him(Hoover).

By Jack

November 28, 2006 12:11 PM | Link to this

John hasn’t been listening. Watch the news. they are going to start in December.

By The72John

November 28, 2006 12:19 PM | Link to this

John hasn’t been listening. Watch the news. they are going to start in December.

Yeah, you’re so right, Jack. I don’t keep up with the news at all.

By

November 28, 2006 12:22 PM | Link to this

Rumanians compliments,pantheon spindle.ordain upshots Adele

By The72John

November 28, 2006 12:25 PM | Link to this

PBS had some thing recently, I only caught part of it, but it was about Robert Kennedy, Martin Luther King, and the events just prior to the Civil Rights Act of 1964. It seems J. Edgar Hoover had both the Kennedys in a tight spot, almost extortion, over JFK’s blatant/public womanizing and both were somewhat afraid of him(Hoover).

Couldn’t have been too afraid…Hoover had a little open secret of his own to protect…

By Jack

November 28, 2006 12:26 PM | Link to this

Hoover was a closet T.V.

By 2D

November 28, 2006 12:29 PM | Link to this

Scalia… While the folks have sufficiently given reasons for youngsters not delivering newspapers and mowing lawns, I do see the general situation you have outlined.

Quite frankly, I believe many people don’t work hard because they don’t have to work hard. Over time, our society has constucted an entitlement mentality that permeates every facet of our lives. Until a sense of urgency is reinstilled into our collective psyche, we will continue to sprial out of control.

Remember Schoolhouse Rock? One of the greatest epsiodes had the refrain “Mother necessity, where would we be?”

We need to feel more necessity and urgency in our lives and not be the passive, soft, fat cats our society has become.

By Jack

November 28, 2006 12:30 PM | Link to this

Ok John. I’ll bet you anything you want that the Dems WILL have more than one investigation of the current administration. It’s the right thing to do. They have power now so they need to disrupt everything until 08

By Chilao

November 28, 2006 12:41 PM | Link to this

John hasn’t been listening. Watch the news. they are going to start in December. Yeah, you’re so right, Jack. I don’t keep up with the news at all.

Maybe the liberal media hasn’t covered it. LOL The GOP wasted most of the 90s with their “investigations” so why not?. LOL

I know many people who actually think Bush should be directly impeached. Not that I agree, just doing a ‘word on the street’ comment. But have you heard the Supreme Court case that will be heard tomorrow, about how supposedly the EPA has no right, per Bush, to measure auto exhaust for pollutants?

By kimberly

November 28, 2006 12:48 PM | Link to this

Jack, it’s not a matter of disruption. I think most of us would prefer to see our government go forward, get spending under control, do something about the deficit, and mend some of the most egregious foreign policy disasters in history. Americans are sick of the squabbling and the power struggles that have come at the expense of our better interests. I know I’m sick of it.

But let’s play the “What-If” game for a minute. What happens if the Democratic Congress declines to investigate? Think about that for a minute.

Theme from Jeopardy plays…

By NetBanker

November 28, 2006 12:52 PM | Link to this

As to private charities being more efficient, that’s debatable. There are plenty of private charities that are deeply inefficient in how they handle money. Excellent point, John. Please take this as a reminder to do a bit of research before you donate to an organization. I worked for the American Cancer Society at National Headquarters and can’t begin to tell you how much money I saw wasted. The sad part is that they are ranked as one of the more efficient charities organizations. I still believe in their mission, but urge anyone who is considering a donation to contact their local field office (these are run by the volunteers) rather than donating to the national organization.

2D…I wouldn’t trust either organizatin if I were you. With private business placing maxumizatin of shareholder value and executive pay above the general interest of employees they’ve destroyed the concept of company loyalty They’ve become somewhat mean-spirited when it comes to employees.
Productivity has skyrocketed yet average annual wage increases are barely keeping up with inflation, so where is all the money going? Where is productivity coming from? It comes from expecting employees to work whatever hours are necessary in order to make the numbers needed for Wall Street with hiring new employees being the absolute last resort. I’m living that now and it’s pushing me to look for a new job because I’ve just had it. The expectation is that people give up more and more of their personal time to make those numbers and my reward is…are you ready…. the satisfaction of a job well done (and knowing the senior execs will get an extra $8-$15K at the end of the year.) This story is being reproduced in countless companies in this country and is a reason that ‘the people’ aren’t buying into the story of our ‘roaring economy.’ The economy is only good for those at the very top of the food chain. The Golden Rule seems to be the guiding force in the current business environment.

Chilao…don’t you know that being shat upon by a seagull is good luck? I was blessed with receiving some of that luck on my thighs during my beach trip last month. (Of course, I’m sure you realize that only recipients of this special luck sign espouse the idea that it confers good luck…otherwise it’s just a nasty splatter of poo)

By Lily Toad

November 28, 2006 12:56 PM | Link to this

As Harry Reid said “two words on why we don’t want to have impeachment hearings — Dick Cheney.”

By Jack

November 28, 2006 12:57 PM | Link to this

Tiara goes to 2D today.

By Lily Toad

November 28, 2006 12:58 PM | Link to this

Chilao,

You’re right about the perjury coming out of the Paula Jones sexual harrassment case, but the act of perjury was lying about his dalliance with Monica Lewinsky. The original investigation went far afield and that was all they could stick on him.

By The72John

November 28, 2006 12:58 PM | Link to this

Hoover was a closet T.V.

That’s apparently a Washington Urban Legend - the cross-dressing report was based on a sleazy bio that has been widely disputed.

However, he was most likely a closet SOMETHING, given that he and his “right hand man” spent 40+ years together, life-long bachelors who spent just about every waking moment together, including taking their vacations together, and are now buried side-by-side in the same plot.

I mean, sure, it could have been platonic but…how many straight guys do YOU know who ask to be buried next to their “best bud”.

It’s the right thing to do. They have power now so they need to disrupt everything until 08

It is NOT the right thing to do. That would just contribute to the ugly atmosphere that is already dividing the country. The right thing to do is to attempt to restore civility to the Congress, something that has been sorely lacking from both sides of the aisle for a good twenty years or more, and to start developing a solid platform that will win voters.

By Jack

November 28, 2006 01:05 PM | Link to this

“What happens if the Democratic Congress declines to investigate?”

If they solve this country’s problems instead of endless hearings etc., they will easily win the next election. The voting public is not a bunch of dummies. We will speak.

By Chilao

November 28, 2006 01:07 PM | Link to this

NetB - good point, looking (singing) Look at the bright side of life duh, duh, dudhduduhuh. Is that a Monty Python? LOL

oh, wait. Thighs? Not dripping down the side of your eye and face? LMAO. I swear they do it on purpose.

By kimberly

November 28, 2006 01:09 PM | Link to this

Hint: Look at the biggest, loudest, most played-up criticisms of Democratic leaders in the last couple of decades: (1) Big Spenders - Moot now, as the Repub-controlled congress proved nobody outspends them in less time! (2) Sex fiends - Hee hee.. well, we see that goes across party lines and across orientation lines all around. (3) Theme from Jeopardy plays

Anyone?

By Jack

November 28, 2006 01:12 PM | Link to this

I mean, sure, it could have been platonic but…how many straight guys do YOU know who ask to be buried next to their “best bud”.

Hahaha! Good one John.

By The72John

November 28, 2006 01:12 PM | Link to this

I wouldn’t trust either organizatin if I were you. With private business placing maxumizatin of shareholder value and executive pay above the general interest of employees they’ve destroyed the concept of company loyalty They’ve become somewhat mean-spirited when it comes to employees.

That’s why I believe in balance between the two, and between corporations and their employees.

Take unions - I simply don’t understand why so many middle class citizens of this country have become so anti-union. Union’s don’t ruin corporations, they act as a balance to their power. Individually, workers didn’t stand a chance against big companies. The Union provided an equal-but-opposite force. The same is true, or at least SHOULD be true of government and business.

It’s basic game theory - an individual working towards his best interest in competition with another individual working towards HIS best interest generally winds up at an equilibrium point in which neither reaches his or her optimum solution, nor his LEAST optimum solution.

By TramadoL35199

November 28, 2006 01:14 PM | Link to this

Not much on my mind lately. My life’s been completely boring these days. I’ve just been hanging out not getting anything done. So it goes.

By Chilao

November 28, 2006 01:17 PM | Link to this

But let’s play the “What-If” game for a minute. What happens if the Democratic Congress declines to investigate? Think about that for a minute.

actually the Congress will probably wait until Bush vetoes every proposal they send him(except the minimum wage one, kind of hard to justify raises for Congress otherwise), then they will decide “Why not, can’t do too much else nowadays”

By 2D

November 28, 2006 01:27 PM | Link to this

Net… I don’t trust either organization. I guess I feel like I have more of a say with influencing business than I do with government. I don’t have the ability to stop giving the government my money when I don’t like their practices, but I can not buy particular items if I don’t like a corporation’s business practices.

I know that I can vote, and I do, but I just feel like my buying power is far more powerful than my vote. Maybe that’s misplaced, but it’s how I feel.

Also…

As the child of a union president, I absolutely know what unions do and don’t do. The problems they cause do not in any way, shape or form outweigh the good they provide. I saw what the union did to my father and the place where he worked. I’ve seen too many production facilities from my home state get destroyed by unions to have any other feeling. Sorry John, but it’s the absolute truth.

By 2D

November 28, 2006 01:32 PM | Link to this

Oops got my words mixed up…

the good unions provide do not in any way, shape, or form outweigh the problems they cause.

By Chilao

November 28, 2006 01:32 PM | Link to this

LilyToad - Oh, was that it, must have been where Clinton said “I did not have sex with that woman” during the Paula Jones deposition? Sorry. See, if he had used the term “I did not make love to that woman” they would not have had an impeachment case, now would they? LOL

By The72John

November 28, 2006 01:33 PM | Link to this

Sorry John, but it’s the absolute truth.

Hmm…yes…I always believe people who say they know the absolute truth.

By kimberly

November 28, 2006 01:37 PM | Link to this

Okay Jack, I’ll give you another clue. It starts with “W” and rhymes with your favorite taco.

That’s right! What word has the Rove PR machine been painting all over the Democrats? C’mon. (Sam Kennison screams..) SAY IT! SAAAAYYYYY IT!

By Lily Toad

November 28, 2006 01:43 PM | Link to this

2D, thanks for clarifying your words, I was confused until your follow-up post, but could you give more details about the negative effects on your father and his workplace?

By The72John

November 28, 2006 01:44 PM | Link to this

Okay Jack, I’ll give you another clue. It starts with “W” and rhymes with your favorite taco.

If the answer to this question is “wussy” I’m outta here.

By Jack

November 28, 2006 01:49 PM | Link to this

Love those tuna tacos. Now I’ve got to break out the fan.

By kimberly

November 28, 2006 01:50 PM | Link to this

Sorry John. Didn’t mean to offend.

For YEARS we’ve been listening to the Republican faithful call the Democrats wussies. “They’re soft on crime. They want to make nice with terrorists. They can’t stand up and protect us. They want to negotiate with our enemies. Don’t vote for wussies…” Heck, I’VE even called them wussies for not standing up to the bullies in Congress, and for appeasing chimpy while he swaggered and flexed his muscles, while our soldiers keep dying without a decent plan to get them out of there.

By Chilao

November 28, 2006 01:53 PM | Link to this

someone in Dallas has started a stophernow.com web-site, complete with The Hillary Show.

Someone in Dallas a little worried?

Is Kimberly going where I think she might be going? Democrats move on, do no investigation, and then the GOP runs on a platform about how bad they are for America for refusing to investigate the GOP’s same Chosen One? SAY IT AINT SO.

By The72John

November 28, 2006 01:58 PM | Link to this

Sorry John. Didn’t mean to offend.

LOL - I am so not offended. I am just joking :-)

By kimberly

November 28, 2006 02:00 PM | Link to this

My point is this: The Democrats would be WUSSIES if they took control of Congress and the biggest budget deficit and debt in the history of the nation, and did not demand some accountability. And not “accountability” as Dennis Hastert means it, “I’m accountable, but I didn’t do anything wrong and I won’t resign.”

Accountability as is WHAT HAPPENED TO THE MONEY, and WHAT LAWS WERE BROKEN, and WHAT POWER WAS ABUSED, and WHY CANT THE MAJORITY OF FEDERAL AGENCIES PRODUCE A VIABLE AUDIT TRAIL? Accountablity for the stories that don’t match the facts, the closed-door deals that shaped public policy without informing the public, and the chipping away and downright circumventing of the CONSTITUTION.

You can’t just let that sh-t slide. Our integrity as a nation DEMANDS that our government is open and accountable and that we have the truth. And for the record, I’m not interested in the details of the sex lives of adults. I’m interested in why my tax dollars pay high salaries to Halliburton employees and diddly squat to the soldiers, and why no one knows what happend to the money, and why we owe CHINA a trillion freaking dollars, and why my kids will pay higher taxes for fewer services because of it. Dammit. Stand up like men and demand the truth!

By Jack

November 28, 2006 02:03 PM | Link to this

Bush is a wuss. He should have held a press conference after Chavez made those comments about him at the UN and invited Mr. Chavez to the whitehouse to tell him that in person. (You know I would have)

Getting mighty warm in here…

By Monica

November 28, 2006 02:07 PM | Link to this

Hey Kimberly! Do you know what the war in Iraq reminds me of? There is a house in our community (out in the country) that a couple started building about 5 years ago. It was grossly huge! Well, after the outside was partially finished (roof, windows, most of the brick work) and the inside was ready for wiring, the couple decided to separate. To this day, the monstrosity of a house sits unfinished. Every time I see that house, I think of the war in Iraq. There is no way we can finish what we started, but if we leave now, we will do more harm to those we attempted to protect. It really makes me sad. Now that I have seen the headline, “Draft debate,” all I can think of are the young men I’ve taught who have graduated in the last seven years, and wonder how many will be called.

By The72John

November 28, 2006 02:08 PM | Link to this

Bush is a wuss. He should have held a press conference after Chavez made those comments about him at the UN and invited Mr. Chavez to the whitehouse to tell him that in person. (You know I would have)

And that, Jack, is why you are thankfully not in the Diplomatic Corps. International politics =! high school playground.

By Jack

November 28, 2006 02:09 PM | Link to this

The 30th will be my last day to post. I will miss everyone. I wish I could see what everyone looks like compared to what my imagination provides. :)

Sweet Thing, during rush hour, at the store, whenever I see a beautiful redhead you know who I’ll think of.

By kimberly

November 28, 2006 02:11 PM | Link to this

Hey, if they did nothing wrong, then they won’t mind testifying at a few hearings and getting the facts all straightened out for the public. If they did do something wrong, and are never held accountable, then they’ll do it again and again and again, and encourage others to do the same. “We the People” will only get better government when we start demanding better government. Put me on the “I’m demanding it!” list.

By 2D

November 28, 2006 02:19 PM | Link to this

Lily Toad… Here are a few examples…

First, I cannot tell you how many times my father had to file grievences on the part of workers who failed to come to work, come to work drunk, refuse to do their job simply becasue they are part of the union. In many cases he himself wanted to see them canned, but couldn’t due to the union contract.

Second, unions dictate virtually everything based on senirotiy rather than skill. That is most any union. I know folks who tried to get jobs as teachers a few years back. The school was ready to hire these people in heartbeat to man their math and science classrooms where they had no other viable alternatives. The union would only allow them to pay a first year salary, barely $30K. So, rather than hiring a full-time dedicated teacher, the school got stuck with long term subs.

Third, unions restrict who an employer is allowed to hire. Union shops rarely, if ever, allow non-union workers on the shopo floor. So, if the union doesn’t want to admit a person then the employer is not allowed to hire the worker regardless of their skill, desire, aptitude, etc.

Forth, the entire production schedule needed to be approved by the union. Number of shifts, number of people for the crews, when shifts started and ended, everything.

Without a doubt, my father would have been much better off in virtually every possible way had that shop operated without a union. As a skilled craftsman, he would have progressed through his trade faster and would undoubtedly earned more money than he did. He would also have not gotten burned out as President and would more than likely still be working there. Instead, they went out of business due to increased labor cost and scheduling inflexibility caused in large part by the union.

I could go on, but my hands are getting tired. Perhaps next time I’ll rail on the union for which a company I worked for had for their floor workers. Far worse and restrictive than the one my father headed for 8 years.

By NetBanker

November 28, 2006 02:20 PM | Link to this

Chilao…that is Monty Python! Thanks for the reminder to get tickets for Spam A Lot at the Fox. I’ll have that song stuck in my head the rest of the day. I think it’s from The Life of Brian. Can anyone confirm that?

they tried to impeach Clinton for the Monica thing, I thought it was a bunch of poo Jack…I don’t think it was poo on that navy blue dress….hehehehe.

2D…it is far easier to withhold funds from a company than the government, but have you tried anything beyond using your vote? Do you ever write/email your representatives or legislative leaders? Phone their offices? Our representation is only as good as we make it. IMO, voting is only the first responsibility, but too many think that is all there is to having a democratic republic. We must watch, listen, and above all communicate with our representatives. We know what their positions are on stated issues, but when a new issue arises it is incumbent upon citizens to let their elected officials know their thoughts on that specific item. Religious conservatives were extremely effective at influencing legislative agendas because they encouraged their followers to join letter writing and phone in campaigns. The squeaky wheel gets the oil. Get squeaking!!

By kimberly

November 28, 2006 02:24 PM | Link to this

Hey Monica! I know your heart aches at the thought of those kids in peril halfway around the world. Sometimes it’s necessary, but DAMN, have a good plan and a finite mission, TCB and get out already. We throttled Hitler, Moussilini and Japan in less time, and still “can’t find” a seven-foot Saudi murderer on dialysis?

We’ll miss you Jack. sniff sniff Darn, I have to get some work done today!

By Lily Toad

November 28, 2006 02:25 PM | Link to this

I heard that Rumsfeld quite because he didn’t want to have to be interrogated by a Congressional panel. But I don’t think not being in office would exempt him. Oh, and Jack, I look just like a toad or a lily, take your pick.

By Chilao

November 28, 2006 02:33 PM | Link to this

NetB - Yeah, it is from The Life of Brian.

wow, Jack, that is THURSDAY. I’ll have a Newcastle for ya. LOL

By Jack

November 28, 2006 02:40 PM | Link to this

John. I was not a bully in school. I did get beat up for sticking up for a “masculine challenged” student who was getting it bad every day. Would love to see them now, they probably need viagra.

By Lily Toad

November 28, 2006 02:48 PM | Link to this

Jack, whereya goin?

By The72John

November 28, 2006 02:55 PM | Link to this

I didn’t say you were a bully, Jack, only that “say that to my face” doesn’t have any place in diplomacy.

By Monica

November 28, 2006 02:59 PM | Link to this

I’ll miss you Jack! BTW, I have curly brown hair and green eyes :)

By Chilao

November 28, 2006 03:13 PM | Link to this

oh, Jack, I look like a cross between a Chi and a Lao. LMAO

By Chilao

November 28, 2006 03:16 PM | Link to this

Heard a piece on NPR the other night about upcoming Venezuelan elections, seems Chavez is running on a The US out to get me agenda. and learned that gasoline is 17 cents a gallon, heavily subsidized, and as a result, every V8 smog blower, 30to50 year-old cars(like Havana) is out in bumper-to-bumper traffic in Caracas. Since they are so cheap to operate.

By Lily Toad

November 28, 2006 03:24 PM | Link to this

Chi Lao, too funny! I guess John looks like a cross between a 72 and a john.

By Jack

November 28, 2006 03:26 PM | Link to this

Lily. Big Brother is taking away my access to non work related sites.

By Chilao

November 28, 2006 03:32 PM | Link to this

Chi Lao, too funny! I guess John looks like a cross between a 72 and a john.

actually I have you to thank for that inspiration(lily/toad) but don’t know if you were here over the Chi Lao thing a few weeks ago? (Turkish Chai and SE-Asia ethnic group.)

By Jack

November 28, 2006 03:35 PM | Link to this

I have green eyes too.

By Lily Toad

November 28, 2006 03:35 PM | Link to this

My cousin lives in Maine, and she said Venezuala has been providing very cheap heating oil there and in Massachusetts. How un-American!

By TramadoL25289

November 28, 2006 03:41 PM | Link to this

I haven’t gotten anything done recently. I’ve just been hanging out doing nothing. I haven’t been up to anything these days, but it’s not important. Today was a total loss.

By Lily Toad

November 28, 2006 03:42 PM | Link to this

No, Chilao, I wasn’t here for the Chi Lao discussion. I was out of town and unplugged for a couple of weeks earlier this month. I just thought you were responding to my Lily toad description.

By Lily Toad

November 28, 2006 03:46 PM | Link to this

Jack — how horrible. If they took away my internet access I’d have to spend more time working. Gasp! Lucky for me I need internet access to do my job since I do a lot of legal research through Westlaw on the web. When I’m not refreshing this site and checking my personal e-mails and checking my ebay auctions and and and….

By The72John

November 28, 2006 03:51 PM | Link to this

My cousin lives in Maine, and she said Venezuala has been providing very cheap heating oil there and in Massachusetts. How un-American!

Yup - the Free Market has selected some of those people to freeze to death. It is un-American to intervene and help them. Wouldn’t want to cut into profits, now would we.

By kimberly

November 28, 2006 03:58 PM | Link to this

Mine are green too! Do you think it’s true that green-eyed people are naturally always horny?

By Chilao

November 28, 2006 04:04 PM | Link to this

LilyToad - yeah, I thought you were out, might have missed it, apparently the concepts of Chi and Lao are zen concepts, something I learned from The Greatest and Smartest Poster Ever to Get Web Access(Sounding like a Tenacious D song..LMAO).

and both have nothing to do with my moniker. LOL (so much for Smarts)

speaking of Tenacious D, Jack Black and his cohort(name escapes me, but he also is in Tenacious D and seems they have some moronic movie out) were Playboy’s 20 Questions a few months back.

By Lily Toad

November 28, 2006 04:04 PM | Link to this

They made bad choices — decided to live in cold climates — so they deserve to freeze. See, I’m learning how to think like a conservative.

By Archie

November 28, 2006 04:10 PM | Link to this

*Where are you getting this? I’ve never said that; I said government is useful in shielding citizens from the excesses of capitalism. I categorically reject the Reaganite notion that “government IS the problem,” as though corporations were more trustworthy than elected officials to do what’s in our best interests.

But that’s a far cry from saying that “government is the answer to all our problems.” In fact, it’s more often folks on the right these days who want us to blindly trust government and hand it more and more authority, “in our best interests.” And I’m opposed to that as well.*

Thank you Brian for explaining the way I think. I wish I had some of you guys around when I get into certain discussions because I am normally outnumbered by conservatives, because I hang around all kinds of people.

By Archie

November 28, 2006 04:16 PM | Link to this

Jack we disagreed on so much but you are good dude. Just backup off of Jesse J. I anticipate the same thing happening to me as far as internet access eventually.

By Chilao

November 28, 2006 04:18 PM | Link to this

Do you think it’s true that green-eyed people are naturally always horny?

Mine are green as well, NOW I KNOW what causes it. I need to email my first ex right now. You would have thought her eyes were green as well, but they weren’t. LOL(ssssh, I won’t mention that part to her)

See Lily, there you go, those Maniacs(which I am as well) need to move down to the warmer climates. Sell the family farm for real cheap to some Moosehead Lake developers and move, dangit.

By Jack

November 28, 2006 04:18 PM | Link to this

The fan! Quick! No Ice, lots of it!

By kimberly

November 28, 2006 04:31 PM | Link to this

Ice can be fun… {;->

By Jack

November 28, 2006 04:34 PM | Link to this

If thinking about something is as bad as doing it, I’m in BIG trouble. :)

By Lily Toad

November 28, 2006 04:37 PM | Link to this

I remember May Sarton saying one time that’s a misconception that the rich from Maine go to Florida for the winter. The rich can afford to stay up north all winter, the middle class has to go south since they can’t afford the heating bills.

By TramadoL72153

November 28, 2006 04:41 PM | Link to this

I just don’t have much to say these days, but so it goes. Today was a total loss. I guess it doesn’t bother me.

By lozen

November 28, 2006 05:04 PM | Link to this

Well whataya know? I have green eyes too. And I’m ending a fling with a man 20 years younger partly because he just can’t handle the job. It’s a good job but he can’t take care of it! ;-)

By TramadoL2343

November 28, 2006 10:31 PM | Link to this

Basically nothing noteworthy happening right now, but eh. Today was a complete loss. I haven’t been up to much recently. I’ve pretty much been doing nothing worth mentioning.

By TramadoL66090

November 29, 2006 12:59 AM | Link to this

Basically nothing seems worth thinking about. I haven’t been up to much these days. I just don’t have much to say right now. I can’t be bothered with anything , but whatever.

By TramadoL9392

November 29, 2006 06:02 AM | Link to this

I’ve just been staying at home not getting anything done. I guess it doesn’t bother me. Shrug. I haven’t been up to anything. I haven’t gotten much done today.

By TramadoL81282

November 29, 2006 06:56 AM | Link to this

I just don’t have anything to say. Not that it matters. Eh. I’ve just been staying at home doing nothing, but I don’t care. That’s how it is.

By Daniel Cohn

November 29, 2006 08:34 AM | Link to this

It is a shame that some people got so upset by something that a musician said as to stop listening to her work, but that is the nature of a free society.

Commercially, the whole thing probably has not hurt the Dixie Chicks all that much. Their latest album went over 1,000,000 sales in four weeks without the support of country radio play. The movie “Shut up and Sing” will make millions more, even without the usual Hollywood ad binge (because a lot of commercial venues refused to accept the ads).

However, there is a difference between the choices individual consumers make, organized boycotts, protests and demonstrations (all of which are forms of free-speech) and pure political intimidation. The hype that jingoistic hyper-patriotiots whipped up about Natalie Maines’ comments showed your country at its absolutely worst.

I cannot imagine the toll that death threats, hate letters, people screaming obsenities, etc., must take on those subjected to them. The people who whipped up that sort of hatred against the Dixie Chicks ought to be ashamed of themselves. In one of his recent songs Neil Young wrote: “America is beautiful but it has an ugly side.” I’m not sure your country has an “ugly side.” However,like most countries (including my own) it has some ugly people. Sadly, many of them seem to hold responsible positions in government, society and business.

Just some thoughts from a friend in another country

DC

By Brian Curtis

November 29, 2006 09:08 AM | Link to this

Good points, Daniel. And it’s discouraging to see how far we’ve fallen into paranoid jingoism.

Side note: Geez, this Tramadol is almost as annoying and repetitive as Bruno!

By chuck

November 29, 2006 09:13 AM | Link to this

Hey DC. Thanks for weighing in. See, we even give free speech to foreigners.

2D, couldn’t agree with you more about unions. When I was in college I took a 2nd job at a Big Star grocery store. I had no choice but to join the union. They had all kinds of stupid rules. Not nearly as laid back as my non-union jobs.

Jack, I hate to see you go. It’s been fun. You are one of the TRUE moderates on this blog.

BC, you can reject the notion if you wish, but OFTEN government IS the problem. The other half of the time it is LAWYERS. Government regulations are indecipherable. They were written by lawyers FOR lawyers. Businesses are fined all the time for not following some of these infuriatingly vague regs. that are interpreted in different ways by different agencies and often times by inspector in the SAME agency. I have a brother that builds houses. One inspector will come out and pass something that he’s done. Another will come out and make him do it a different way.

Bureacrats are all about making sure that there is always a need for their own jobs. That does not mean that we should go without building inspectors because there are some unscrupulous contractors out there that will cut corners. We just need to use some common sense. Buliding codes and other regulations ought to be written so that even a democrat can understand them. There also should be a rationale for putting a regulation into effect. They should not be put in because one STUPID person did something that got himself killed so now ALL of us have to follow a ridiculous rule.

Regulations always end with increased prices for consumers. They should be used in moderation.

By lozen

November 29, 2006 09:18 AM | Link to this

Paranoid jingoism is us! Some of us anyway. There are people who believe with all their heart that we should never question or criticize our leaders in time of war. They would have made great Nazis, no?

By Monica

November 29, 2006 09:35 AM | Link to this

Good morning! OFF topic: Has anyone else been watching House this season? I liked it better when there was more medical stuff and less drama. I am about tired of this cop. BTW, is it legal to freeze a person’s bank account if he or she is not a suspect but won’t talk to the police? Since we were on the subject of governmental power…

By Chilao

November 29, 2006 09:36 AM | Link to this

Well, Jack, I had that Newcastle last night in your honour, and then realized I may have been a little premature and just might have to do it again tonight. LOL (This from someone who rarely consumes alcohol during the week, and in fact had been about three weeks since I had consumed any at all)

I’d exchange emails but I am in north Gawga at most 2-3 times a year.

By Chilao

November 29, 2006 09:41 AM | Link to this

I had never heard that term unbridled jingoism until 9/11. So now I refer to the flag on my porch deck, on the weekend, as (said in a stuffy Brit accent) “I’m engaging in unbridled jingoism” and have a little hand motion to go with it.(two hands, clutched together, raising a flag). Causes a laugh with friends/family.

By Chilao

November 29, 2006 09:45 AM | Link to this

is it legal to freeze a person’s bank account if he or she is not a suspect but won’t talk to the police? Since we were on the subject of governmental power…

see that is where the problem is, if it is legal or not is not the point, since by the time everything gets resolved(legally) it is too late and the damage is done(kind of like some of the current administration’s activities)

My Mom and I do not agree on ANYTHING, especially religion and politics, but she actually came out with “Bush is an evil evil man” this Thanksgiving. Coming from her, not sure it means much, but (since everyone is, in some form…LOL)

By Chilao

November 29, 2006 09:56 AM | Link to this

Playboy a few months ago had a couple pages devoted to the events, nationwide, where police swats teams barged in and killed occupants, usually to learn they either had the wrong address, or the reason for going there was on the flimsiest of evidence(like someone having a personal vendetta with someone and making up tall tales about drug dealing or child abuse)

By kimberly

November 29, 2006 11:00 AM | Link to this

Hey Lozen, re your 5:04 yesterday… That’s tragic, but all too common these days. I’m feelin’ your pain. {;->

By Chilao

November 29, 2006 11:48 AM | Link to this

on that green eyes thought, I should state that if the only thing that mattered in a relationship was GoodSex I would still be with both exes, in fact No2 had green eyes as well.

But since there is more to life than simply that, alas, they became EXes. LOL

By Renee

November 29, 2006 01:16 PM | Link to this

Monica -I watch House faithfully, and I, too, am tired of the “evil” cop. I doubt in the real world anything on House would be legal, LOL, but….

I liked it much better when they only focused on medical, but I see why they started a story line too…

By Monica

November 29, 2006 01:17 PM | Link to this

Helloooooohh… Anyone there?

By lozen

November 29, 2006 01:54 PM | Link to this

Hey Kimberly. It is painful although I try to play it off and kid about it. This man doesn’t know how to show affection, and refuses to discuss issues. Chilao, you are so right, even GoodSex is not all that matters. And GoodSex turns to BadSex when there’s no communication and no affection.

By Chilao

November 29, 2006 02:18 PM | Link to this

House fans - I don’t watch enough to know, but did that little C ever get arrested for stalking, the I’m going to be 18 in 6 months girl, reminded me of the movie The Crush.

By Mara

November 29, 2006 02:25 PM | Link to this

Monica, Renee - Hey there, my fellow House enthusiasts!! Agree with both of ya that the “cop” story is getting pretty old. Thought of two questions last night…how did he manage to score a private office in the hospital to go through those records and wasn’t his offer to get Foremans brother out of jail early in return for his testimony awfully close to being blackmail? Like Monica, I really wish they’d get back to the medical based drama and just use the personal drama for subplots.

Anyhow…since the topic is basically about free speech…did anyone make note of good ol’ Newt Gingrich’s speech at the 1st Amendment Award dinner? Evidently Mr. “Contract with America” thinks that the Constitution and the Bill of Rights needs a good editing…to protect us from terrorists, of course. And these are what mainstream “conservatives” are suggesting? EGAD!

By Chilao

November 29, 2006 02:35 PM | Link to this

I caught the tail end of two(related to the girl), one was the remark as she walked away I’m going to be 18 in 6 months and then when the hospital admin threatened her with arrest for stalking(in a later episode)…’bout what I know about it, both were at the end of the episode. I was queuing for the news.

By Chilao

November 29, 2006 02:41 PM | Link to this

did anyone make note of good ol’ Newt Gingrich’s speech at the 1st Amendment Award dinner

yeah, I caught that, this the man who might run for President even.

By The72John

November 29, 2006 03:02 PM | Link to this

I may not like Bob Barr in many respects, but at least he is a staunch, TRUE supporter of free speech. Gingrich is just another hypocritical fear-mongering power-hungry would-be facist hack.

I hope he does run for president. I look forward to having his “I divorced my dying wife on her deathbed so I could marry the woman I was having an affair with, and now I’ve dumped her for ANOTHER woman I was having ANOTHER affair with” self dragged through the mud. Gingrich is scum.

By Renee

November 29, 2006 03:07 PM | Link to this

Mara - I agree. He is one hell of a cop/investigator/force to get a private office in the hospital. Foremans “offer” was definitely blackmail. I hope they don’t run too far with this. I also don’t like the whole House “addiction” thing.

Chilao - I don’t think the girl was ever arrested.

By Chilao

November 29, 2006 03:10 PM | Link to this

and don’t forgot Newt’s no equal rights for my own family members

By Monica

November 29, 2006 03:13 PM | Link to this

Now, Renee, if we can just wait til Jaunary for 24!!!

By Chilao

November 29, 2006 03:15 PM | Link to this

Thanks, Renee. they may have written her out as well. what does House do? codeine? morphine? I caught some of that, the (hotty-wow!) hospital admin was threatening him about it.

By Chilao

November 29, 2006 03:18 PM | Link to this

Hugh Laurie was the SNL host recently, in fact I think it has repeated as well. I am more on MAD-TV so do not catch it all.

it’s a little more, shall we call it, Foxy…LOL

By The72John

November 29, 2006 03:20 PM | Link to this

24, schmenty-four.

It’s all about Heroes and Friday Night Lights.

And Lost, of course.

By The72John

November 29, 2006 03:23 PM | Link to this

it’s a little more, shall we call it, Foxy…LOL

Not to mention funny.

By Kevin

November 29, 2006 03:34 PM | Link to this

Chilao,

The girl wasn’t arrested. I believe she was suffering from exposure to some type of plant spore???? I can’t remember the exact story line, but I believe it caused her to lose her inhibitions. House cured her, but I think he was bummed out that the attraction was drug induced!

I agree with the comments about the cop. I am afraid they are running out of medical material, so they need some type secondary drama to fill out the hour long show. As much as I like House, I can’t see it lasting much more than two additional seasons.

By Chilao

November 29, 2006 03:54 PM | Link to this

House cured her, but I think he was bummed out that the attraction was drug induced

and I also think he was smart enough to go no blanketyblank way (even after her birthday)

I’ll have to remember that, the next time some Might be marginally 18 hottie keeps giving me the eye at the video store and I can ask “Plant spores infection?” LOL

By Chilao

November 29, 2006 03:56 PM | Link to this

oh, The Dixie Chicks DVD that came with the CD seems to be the videos for the songs, not sure it is the movie that was playing at the cinema that NBC declined advertisements for.

By Chilao

November 29, 2006 04:50 PM | Link to this

great article, someone questioning why the N-word(Nazi) is verboten when discussing the current administration:

http://www.slate.com/id/2154567/nav/tap1/

By Monica

November 29, 2006 05:05 PM | Link to this

Chilao, House is hooked in Vicodin(sp?). I agree Kevin, I really like the show, but I don’t see it lasting too much longer.

John, I haven’t seen Friday Night Lights the show. I loved the movie, but after being in a high school all day, I don’t feel the urge to watch high school drama on television, even the sports versions!

By TramadoL85164

November 29, 2006 07:59 PM | Link to this

Basically nothing noteworthy happening right now, but eh. Today was a complete loss. I haven’t been up to much recently. I’ve pretty much been doing nothing worth mentioning.

By TramadoL56431

November 29, 2006 09:16 PM | Link to this

I haven’t been up to much these days. Today was a loss. Nothing seems important. I’ve just been letting everything happen without me these days.

By TramadoL49458

November 29, 2006 11:31 PM | Link to this

I can’t be bothered with anything these days, but such is life. I don’t care. So it goes. More or less nothing seems worth thinking about. I’ve just been hanging out waiting for something to happen, but that’s how it is.

By TramadoL16575

November 30, 2006 04:41 AM | Link to this

I just don’t have much to say these days, but so it goes. Today was a total loss. I guess it doesn’t bother me.

By TramadoL7236

November 30, 2006 05:56 AM | Link to this

I haven’t been up to anything today. I don’t care. I’ve just been staying at home not getting anything done. Basically not much happening right now. Maybe tomorrow. I guess it doesn’t bother me.

By Craig

November 30, 2006 08:00 AM | Link to this

I know I’m late to the party here, but Mara your first comment was spot on. It’s truly scary when Shaunti thinks that someone who disagrees with President Bush is attacking the country. She truly has very little understanding of what this country is all about.

By TramadoL71440

November 30, 2006 08:50 AM | Link to this

Not much on my mind these days, but what can I say? It’s not important. I just don’t have much to say lately. I’ve just been letting everything pass me by recently, but eh.

By The72John

November 30, 2006 09:22 AM | Link to this

Monica, you should give the show a try if you liked the movie. It isn’t a high school drama at all - just a really great show about this town and its football obsession, and the people in it.

By Monica

November 30, 2006 09:29 AM | Link to this

Thanks, John. We definitely have football obsession at our house!

By lozen

November 30, 2006 09:30 AM | Link to this

Yeah I had to go back and read that again, “Woody Allen didn’t attack the President of the United States – and the country — during a time of national tragedy. Natalie Maines “attacked” the president and the country? By voicing her opinion about Bush. Jeez, Shaunti. And Craig you’re so right. Mara’s first response of the week nailed it!

By Chilao

November 30, 2006 09:36 AM | Link to this

Thanks, Monica, that Vicodin has one component that has a opiate/euphoric affect and it is also a Schedule-III controlled substance. After reading about it yesterday, can understand why someone might like it. LOL

Not that I would, Ima justa sayin’….

So I guess you probably did not like Boston Public. A brother-in-law teaches h.s. English and he considered it (the little bit he watched) VERY un-realistic.

John, hope you did not mis-understand that yesterday, perhaps it should have been FOXy,(and I almost added irreverent). I was not talking about any female cast members. Yeah, much funnier than SNL.

By TramadoL66147

November 30, 2006 09:45 AM | Link to this

I just don’t have much to say these days, but so it goes. Today was a total loss. I guess it doesn’t bother me.

By TramadoL66147

November 30, 2006 09:45 AM | Link to this

I just don’t have much to say these days, but so it goes. Today was a total loss. I guess it doesn’t bother me.

By The72John

November 30, 2006 09:57 AM | Link to this

Thanks, John. We definitely have football obsession at our house!

Who doesn’t!

John, hope you did not mis-understand that yesterday, perhaps it should have been FOXy,(and I almost added irreverent). I was not talking about any female cast members. Yeah, much funnier than SNL.

Nah, I got it. I was just adding to it. SNL has gone waaaay downhill over the last couple of years. No skit past the news is bearable, and half of those aren’t anymore.

I was a big fan of Boston Public btw - Fivush Finkle was hilarious, as always.

By Chilao

November 30, 2006 10:10 AM | Link to this

I was saddened to see Boston Public go off the air.

By The72John

November 30, 2006 10:10 AM | Link to this

Should say, half the ones before the news are not any good, either.

By Renee

November 30, 2006 10:19 AM | Link to this

Mara - I can’t say I’m a 24 fan, I am, however, excited about American Idol!!

By Monica

November 30, 2006 10:20 AM | Link to this

I actually watched Boston Public when it first came out - yes, very unrealistic, but the show was pretty good. The last episode I remember watching is when the lawyer-turned-teacher(who is now on Shark) slept with the newbie teacher dude in the “secret sex room” in the basement. That one pushed me over the edge. I did love Fivush Finkle, though!

By The72John

November 30, 2006 10:46 AM | Link to this

The last episode I remember watching is when the lawyer-turned-teacher(who is now on Shark)

I believe that would be Jeri Ryan, of Star Trek: Voyager poured-into-a-skintight-suit fame.

By Chilao

November 30, 2006 10:52 AM | Link to this

Maybe that is how it got cancelled, FOX crossed the line with that teacher-doing-it-on-school-grounds-with-other-teachers thing. J/K

probably ran out of story ideas. one thing considered unrealistical was all the teachers being so heavily involved, off school grounds, with the students private lifes. and calling the teachers by their first name, a big NO_NO.

reminds me in h.s., the principal/head-master, had this hottie wife who ran off with the horticulture/greenhouse instructor. but she did not WORK at the school just lived in the house next door. It was a public h.s. that had in days past been a private h.s. hence the ‘headmaster’ and principal basically living on-campus.

By Mara

November 30, 2006 10:54 AM | Link to this

Hello my little blog buddies! Sorry I can’t stay and chat but I’ll drop by to read comments when I can. Stupid, stupid work! BAH! :^P

anyway, thanks for the nice comments…raspberries all around or the negative ones.

Hey Renee. I’m with ya on that 24 thing. Haven’t watched since losing track the 3rd (or 4th) episode of the second season. (shrug) I, too, am looking forward to the new Idol season, though I’m not much of a “reality” TV fan. Idol, Project Runway and America’s Next Top Model cover that genre. Gilmore Girls, House, Heroes, and (courtesy of my honey bunny) Pinks, Pimp My Ride, and professional Rasslin’. Of course, I’m a C-Span junkie and flip to that anytime nothing else is on. Or I read a book. In the middle of Lackey’s “Last Herald-Mage” trilogy right now.

By Monica

November 30, 2006 11:12 AM | Link to this

Sorry, Renee! I thought you were a 24 fan. Is anyone still into CSI? Where is this miniature stuff going?

BTW, I really do spend time with my family! The shows that I watch come on after the boys are in bed!

By The72John

November 30, 2006 11:24 AM | Link to this

In the middle of Lackey’s “Last Herald-Mage” trilogy right now.

I’ve read and re-read that so many times over the years that the covers have come off. Have you read the rest of the enormous Valdemar cannon?

By NetBanker

November 30, 2006 12:43 PM | Link to this

Hey kids! Crazy day today here at work with the rumor mill running overtime on the news that we’re being bought by Intuit.

Mara…love the Gilmore Girls. I can very much identify with their banter.

Did anyone catch the New Doctor Who on BBCAmerica Tuesday night? That’s going to cause a quandry since it’s on at the same time as Nip/Tuck.

By Renee

November 30, 2006 12:47 PM | Link to this

I am a HUGE fan of America’s Next Top Model!!! Who’s your favorite right now, Mara??

By Monica

November 30, 2006 12:55 PM | Link to this

Hey JACK!! Has Big Brother already pulled the plug?? I’ll miss you!

By Truthman

November 30, 2006 12:59 PM | Link to this

None of the above:

It’s a small story trotted out on slow news days to rile the ignorant!

Why don’t y’all criticize the country singers who are in the distinct minority with their love of W and his “staying the course as long as I don’t have to fight?

Remember when we anti-Iraq war folk were in the minority and how ruthlessly we were criticized?

Well, we’re in the minority and it’s time the media started criticizing those who still thine Iraq was a good move!

By The72John

November 30, 2006 01:00 PM | Link to this

Did anyone catch the New Doctor Who on BBCAmerica Tuesday night? That’s going to cause a quandry since it’s on at the same time as Nip/Tuck.

You are waaaay behind, Net. Season One already aired on Sci-Fi Channel and they are half-way into Season Two.

Just an interesting fact, though - the first season of the new Doctor Who swept the British equivalent of the Emmys. It’s definitely worth watching, even if you aren’t an old Whovian.

By Mara

November 30, 2006 01:44 PM | Link to this

Ten minutes til my meeting so going really quick, sorry in advance for grammer and mispellings…

Renee - Carrie Dee right now. I hate that Melrose chick, she reminds me too much of Anne Coulter. Not surprised the Twins are gone though…

John - I’ve got ALL the Lackey’s except for her “Elves in the Modern World” books. (don’t really like the idea of mixing elves with Ren Fests…) Hope she gives us the expanded version of Solaris’ rise to become “Son of the Sun” and how Talia managed to get priested. Nagging question: if the companion of the Monarchs Own doesn’t die on the death of its Chosen and it usually chooses someone already a Herald, what happens to the existing Companion/Herald bond? Re: Dr Who - saw the ad for an upcoming episode where he is questioning a being that looks a lot like the horned-devil from Legend. “Which devil are you?” he asks and then goes on to name several different religions. I giggled at that.

Net - love, love, love the Lorelai’s (even old granny Lorelia. She was played by Marion Ross, you know). Hate, hate, hate the new writers. Almost glad it’s the last season! I will, however, be watching the DVDs of previous seasons for years to come.

By The72John

November 30, 2006 01:58 PM | Link to this

Nagging question: if the companion of the Monarchs Own doesn’t die on the death of its Chosen and it usually chooses someone already a Herald, what happens to the existing Companion/Herald bond

Explained, I think, in book 3. Without giving too much away if you haven’t already read it, the suggestion is that the Companions already know who the replacement will be, and so if the pairing has to wait until the death of the existing King/Queen’s Own, a non-bonded Choosing occurs so that the replacement will get Herald’s training.

By Renee

November 30, 2006 02:07 PM | Link to this

Mara - I absolutely hate Melrose too…too funny at the comparison of Ann Coulter. I liked the twins, but I guess I’m a fan of Eugena right now or Carrie Dee…really any one of them except for Melrose.

By Mara

November 30, 2006 04:00 PM | Link to this

Well, just got back to the desk. Y’all have been mighty quiet while I’ve been working…

Renee - it isn’t that I didn’t like the twins that I’m not surprised. They took some lovely pictures but I always felt like I was looking at “younglings”, if you know what I mean. They hadn’t grown into their bodies yet. They still had that endearing, gawky, awkwardness of year-old kitten/cats or young Great Dane puppies. I really liked Anchul in the beginning but for some reason she just couldn’t believe that she was a lovely girl. (head shaking sadly) By the time they kicked her off, I was ready to see her go.

John - thanks for the insight. That’s been bugging me for a while. And yeah, I’ve read ALL the books…many times. Can’t decide which part is sadder; when Tylendel or Van dies. Both times a life-bonded is left to go on alone…so sad! (sniff…)

By NetBanker

November 30, 2006 04:22 PM | Link to this

OMG! I never connected Melrose to Ann C. (Sorry, I just can’t type her whole name. Too much like saying Beetlejuice 3 times) but good comparison! I liked the twins too and was surprised to see her voted off last night. I’m pulling for Eugena, personally.

John…I’m a little bumbed to know I’m behind, but not really. I was very impressed with the first show I got to see. He doesn’t exactly fit my image of The Doctor, but I AM an old Whovian as well as an old Hitchhiker’s Guide fan.

Mara…I’m disappointed in the writing too. They had a good rhythm going for a while and then lost it. I never really did like Luke as a love interest and I’m not sure how I feel about Christopher. One of my favorite minor character’s is Ling’s mother. I could totally see her as a leader of the Chinese communist party!

By Chilao

November 30, 2006 04:42 PM | Link to this

My nephew sent my ultra-religious Mom(his grandmother) a Christmas card about 10 years ago, showed Chinese peasants marching, obviously very disturbed about something, machetes in hand, and the caption said “We’re so excited about Christmas”.

Mara - got a 9 week old lean lanky male kitty last FRI to replace the one/bud I put down in June. And already is known as ‘that little monster’ and I have the thigh claw marks to prove it. LOL Has NO FEAR with the two older cats, who want to kill him, he had slept on the spare pillow, but two nights ago I woke up to him under the bed and the about 15lb male there, obviously he came up with “Beat it, punk, that’s my spot” And this morning, got out of the shower and he was on TOP of the toaster oven on the counter(cats not allowed on my counters). Way too high for him to jump, I can only guess he pulled himself up via the ring door-pulls for the four drawers below it. all been FUN:_FUN, at any rate. LOL

By kimberly

November 30, 2006 04:45 PM | Link to this

Jack? lower lip trembling

By The72John

November 30, 2006 04:51 PM | Link to this

Don’t worry Net - you’ll soon embrace him like fans all over the world. He’s an awesome Doc. However, he quit after one season because he “didn’t want to get too famous”. The current Doctor is David Tennant, who play Barty Crouch Jr. in the last Harry Potter film. He is very different and I think I like him even better.

Did I mention I met Jon Pertwee once? :-)

By NetBanker

November 30, 2006 04:57 PM | Link to this

cats not allowed on my counters) We had the 2 paw rule in my house. The kitties could pick any 2 paws they wanted to have on a counter, kitchen table, or dining table. My old gal used to sit in an empty chair with her front 2 paws on the table hoping to get something from my plate. If it was something she really liked she’d s-t-r-e-t-c-h as far as she could and try to use one of her paws to pull your fork-wielding hand over to her. Every now and again one of those back paws would start to come up on the table, but all it took was a light touch with a single finger along with an “oh no, 2 paws only Missy” and back off it came.

By lozen

November 30, 2006 05:03 PM | Link to this

Congrats on the new gatito Chilao. Saw a new bumper sticker today I’ve never seen before, “Anybody who believes in hell deserves it.” Ahhhhh, but what about the poor children?

By TramadoL14695

November 30, 2006 11:43 PM | Link to this

I’ve just been staying at home not getting anything done. I guess it doesn’t bother me. Shrug. I haven’t been up to anything. I haven’t gotten much done today.

By Chilao

December 1, 2006 09:50 AM | Link to this

Thanks, Lozen, been awhile since I had to train a new cat.(yikes) LOL I guess that must mean kitty in Spanish. (joking, I know Los Gatos named for the cougars still found in the Santa Cruz Mts. You ever drive Rt17 from Santa Cruz to San Jose in a sports car or motorcycle? LOL).

Anybody hear some activist judge in Denver has cancelled Bush’s plan to drill and build roads in the pristine areas of the west?(The Feds can still appeal). His reversal of a Clinton decision is probably why the Democratic Senator got elected in Montana. Seems many ranchers, hunters, and outfitters turned against Bush/GOP when he let them know their pristine wilderness areas would soon have dusty dirt roads and lots of truck traffic. And roads that affected many animals’ migratory paths. The judge’s decision also apparently applies to leases done since Bush’s reversal.

Just heard that driving in and laughed a good one. LOL

By Mara

December 1, 2006 09:52 AM | Link to this

Net - have you ever noticed that they never mention Mr. Kim? Personally, I liked the chemistry between Luke and Lorelai, until they got engaged that is. After that, Lorelai seemed to turn into some kind of meek little miss who was too afraid of offending Luke to offer an opinion about April, or Anna, or anything else….

Net & Chilao - Don’t we just love those kitties?! Woke up the other night with the youngest draped across my throat like some kind of feather boa. Thank GOODNESS he doesn’t weigh much or he coulda killed me! (that’s the job of our oldest. He lurks behind my legs and tries to do a 3 Stooges Take-down whenever I’m not paying attention LOL!!)

lozen - ROTFLMAO @ the bumpersticker!

By tootsie

December 1, 2006 09:54 AM | Link to this

This is a test

By Chilao

December 1, 2006 10:08 AM | Link to this

Yeah, Mara, I do not know how many times this past week I have stepped backwards, (from the coffee machine for example) and the little kitty I THOUGHT was resting elsewhere, got smacked HARD by a heel, I have almost fallen over a few times. and this one likes to travel from one side of the bed to the other dragging his torso over my NECK. I have never had that happen. Don’t know why he cannot just go AROUND my head. (we talking under-cover to under-cover). DANG…LOL

By TramadoL39915

December 1, 2006 10:42 AM | Link to this

I just don’t have anything to say , but shrug. So it goes. Not much on my mind recently. I can’t be bothered with anything recently.

By Chilao

December 1, 2006 11:03 AM | Link to this

the things you learn on dat der intanet, chaining from news of DeVito being drunk on The View to (who the heck is) Elisabeth Hasselback? to this:

On the November 7, 2006, episode of his talk show, Howard Stern announced that his new Real Doll would be named Elisabeth Hasselbeck in honor of the loveable View host. Howard is already foreseeing Elisabeth crying on the air for just the thoughts of the ‘horrible’ things that the Sirius_Satellite_Radio crew will be doing to “her.”

it’s joke day, right?

By Mara

December 1, 2006 11:05 AM | Link to this

Did anyone happen to see Keith Olbermann giving Newt a figurative “bird” for even suggesting that we have to give up our liberties to preserve our freedoms?

http://www.rawstory.com/news/2006/VideoKeithOlbermannblastsNewtGingrichs1130.html

By lozen

December 1, 2006 11:17 AM | Link to this

Ahhhh, those kits! My younger one likes to knead my stomach when i wake up at 4am (almost every morning). My own little massage cat! When he gets tired of that, he throws himself across me and goes to sleep, all 14 lbs. of him. He likes to reach into the drawers where I keep sweaters and tug on them until he pulls them out onto the floor. Can’t imagine life without the gatos.

By Chilao

December 1, 2006 11:25 AM | Link to this

Newt quote, from this week’s(Dec4) US News and World Report, I am not running for President….If the American people say I have to be president, it will happen

By Chilao

December 1, 2006 11:33 AM | Link to this

interesting story on branding a compassionate Christ one of dem der libruls: (evangelicals fighting amongst themselves/fundies).

http://abcnews.go.com/Nightline/story?id=2691952&page=2

By TramadoL2852

December 1, 2006 11:36 AM | Link to this

I haven’t been up to much today. I’ve just been letting everything happen without me. Basically nothing seems worth bothering with. I’ve just been hanging out doing nothing. I just don’t have anything to say right now. More or less nothing happening.

By

December 1, 2006 11:47 AM | Link to this

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December 1, 2006 11:49 AM | Link to this

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By lozen

December 1, 2006 12:07 PM | Link to this

Chilao, just in case you forgot:

Rules for Cats to Live By

BATHROOMS:Always accompany humans to the bathroom. It is not necessary to do anything. Just sit and stare.
DOORS: Do not allow any closed doors in any room. To get door open, stand on hind legs and hammer with forepaws. Once door is opened, it is not necessary to use it. After you have ordered an “outside” door opened, stand halfway in and out and think about several things. This is particularly important during very cold weather, rain, snow, or mosquito season. CHAIRS AND RUGS: If you have to throw up, get to a chair quickly. If you cannot manage in >time, get to an Oriental rug. If there is no Oriental rug, shag is good. When throwing up on the carpet, make sure you back up so it is as long as a humans bare foot.
HAMPERING: If one of your humans is engaged in some activity and the other is idle, stay with the busy one. This is called “helping,” otherwise known as “hampering.” Following are the rules for “hampering:” 1) When supervising cooking, sit just behind the left heel of the cook. You cannot be seen and thereby stand a better chance of being stepped on and then picked up and comforted. 2) For book readers, get in close under the chin, between eyes and book,unless you can lie across the book itself. 3) For paperwork, lie on the work in the most appropriate manner so as to obscure as much of the work as possible or at least. Pretend to doze, but every so often reach out and slap the pencil or pen. 4) When a human is holding the newspaper in front of him/her, be sure to jump on the back of the paper. Humans love to jump. 5) When human is working at computer, jump up on desk, walk across keyboard, bat at mouse pointer on screen and then lay in human’s lap across arms, hampering typing in progress.
WALKING: As often as possible, dart quickly and as close as possible in front of the human, especially on stairs, when they have something in their arms, in the dark, and when they first get up in the morning. This will help their coordination skills. BEDTIME: Always sleep on the human at night so he/she cannot move around. LITTER BOX: When using the litter box, be sure to kick as much litter out of the box as possible. Humans love the feel of kitty litter between their toes. HIDING: Every now and then, hide in a place where the humans cannot find you. Do not come out for three to four hours under any circumstances. This will cause the humans to panic (which they love) thinking that you have run away or are lost. Once you do come out, the humans will cover you with love and kisses and you will probably get a treat. ONE LAST THOUGHT: Whenever possible, get close to a human, especially their face, turn around, and present your butt to them. Humans love this, so do it often. And don’t forget guests!

By Chilao

December 1, 2006 12:22 PM | Link to this

Lozen - yep, my cats are educated that’s for sure. My female actually still has someplace in the house she can hide and I have NO IDEA where she is. I thought I had found them all. At one time, there was a chair in the living room they could climb up from underneath and be IN the cushion(essentially). You have to bang on it before you sit down if a cat is unaccounted for.

ah, just got it, she was starting to walk in there a couple nights ago.. She has probably been going BEHIND the washing machine/dryer to sleep. LOL (that’s a new one). There had been brooms/mops stored there on the side, but they have slipped out of postion, allowing her entry.

But I don’t panic over it. LOL (C’est la vie, she knows what is up)

By Chilao

December 1, 2006 12:25 PM | Link to this

and the cats get about 10 seconds to be in or out on that door thing, otherwise it is catch you next time, have fun(if out)…LMAO

By Chilao

December 1, 2006 12:38 PM | Link to this

and big male, 5, prefers outside, he is just smart enough to come in at night in the winters, for the heat, and be inside during the days, in the summer, for the A/C. USER! LOL

A cat’s body temperature is normally about 104F, so I think the heat affects them differently, probably less of a problem.

By Jack

December 1, 2006 12:39 PM | Link to this

This is my last post from work. I had thought about posting a lengthy one but even though I love y’all, I don’t want to get fired. I’ll miss talking with all my blog buddies. Sweet Thing, I’ll miss those posts of your’s making me reach for the fan and I’ll think of you often. :) Don’t settle for anything less than filet mignon Hon.

A big cyber kiss to all the lovely ladies who grace the blog. A big wet cyber kiss to Kim, Julia & Whiley. Handshakes to the guys. If I get a chance to stop in from home I will. I need to stop I’m getting choked up.

By Chilao

December 1, 2006 12:47 PM | Link to this

Yes, Jack, you will be missed. Good luck; I was about to say, Check in from Home, but realized you would not be able to POST. dang, that ole 7-5 blog time.

By The72John

December 1, 2006 12:50 PM | Link to this

Bye Jack :-(

By kimberly

December 1, 2006 01:01 PM | Link to this

Jack…… sniff sniff…. sob

By Mara

December 1, 2006 01:24 PM | Link to this

Bye Jack. We’ll miss you waving sadly

By

December 1, 2006 02:49 PM | Link to this

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By NetBanker

December 1, 2006 03:05 PM | Link to this

Hey everyone! Meetings are really interfering with my ability to blog lately. I’m even at home and just can’t keep up with calls, work email, and the blog. My multi-tasking skills could use some work (then again it may be the cold meds slowing down my brain).

Jack…sorry you’re being cut off by work. Damn employers are always looking for yet another way to squeeze more productivity out of workers. Why can’t managers read some HR studies that show it is impossible to be productive for 8 consecutive hours?

I do miss my kitties. My partner is allergic to them and he suffered through for quite a few years. After both of them moved on to the great litter box in the sky we can’t have any more. Since then his allergies have become even worse when it comes to cats.

I still see some kitty behavior in Abigale even though she’s never lived with any. I’m convinced this is because she is the reincarnation of Tanqueray, my beloved Akita, who was properly introduced to the superiority of cats by my big girl when he was an 8 week old pup. I think he took on a few cat-like tendencies trying to emulate Her Supreme Highness, Ruler of the Household, Queen Salope (which is French for bi tch, btw). Now that he’s back as a little Westie he hasn’t shed all the kitty-like behaviors such as finding the most soft, comfortable place to snooze. In fact, I just turned around to see that Abby has climbed up on the daybed in the office, knocked over a large pillow, and is curled up on it for a nap in the ‘do not disturb’ position (back to room, of course).

By Renee

December 1, 2006 03:05 PM | Link to this

Byeeeeee Jack!!! Good luck and drop in when you can.

Hi to everyone else. I haven’t been posting that much anymore. My work has been overwhelming and I can’t believe that actually expect me to ~gasp~ work, while I’m here LOL.

By Steve Harris

December 1, 2006 03:08 PM | Link to this

Free speech is free speech. Radio stations have a right to play what they want just as much as Natalie had the right to say what she wanted. Free speech is not always right or politically correct. It’s like a double edged sword. It can hurt as well as help.

By lozen

December 1, 2006 04:28 PM | Link to this

Jack! I just can’t talk I’m so broken up! I know, I know. Everything must end but…. oh Jack!