AJC.com > Opinion > Woman to Woman > Archives > 2006 > August > 23 > Entry
Is the “pursuit of happiness” just an American dream?
Diane Glass, a left-leaning columnist, writes the commentary this week and Shaunti Feldhahn, a right-leaning columnist, responds.
Diane Glass, a left-leaning columnist, writes the commentary this week and Shaunti Feldhahn, a right-leaning columnist, responds.
Commentary
In today’s quick-fix culture one only need pop a pill or visit the plastic surgeon to feel better. And the experts agree with this.
Everyday unhappiness is treated like major clinical depression, cautions Dr. Ronald Dworkin in “Artificial Happiness: The Dark Side of the New Happy Class”. Uncomfortable life transitions, like divorce, are treated with anti-depressants to mask momentary discomfort, and perhaps, valuable emotional tensions we should all just learn to suffer through. The gain from suffering? Our coping skills might improve. The downside? Reality can be harsh. We’ve come to prefer reality on television.
But there are plenty of other mass opiates out there, like religious belief or chronic over eating which people use as a crutch to get through hard times. And coping is all some of us can ever hope to achieve because other studies show a biological predisposition to worry and fret.
According to Daniel Nettle in “Happiness: The Science Behind Your Smile,” studies reveal that despite the very different experiences of identical twins who live apart, they are hard-wired to experience life on the same biologically-determined emotional level.
This makes me very unhappy — especially so, when Nettle describes the human quest for happiness as a forest of trees mindlessly shooting upward to compete against their neighbors for the broadest patch of sunshine. I imagine myself as a salivating Pavlovian dog coveting the latest flat screen TV. Happiness isn’t real; it’s positional psychology. It’s the feeling we get when we outdo our neighbors by buying a bigger house, breeding smarter children or tallying the longest roster of charity sponsors for a 5k run.
So, I guess the takeaway here is that when your parents nag you about getting married, having children or becoming an accountant instead of a starving artist, they really are just looking out for your happiness. They don’t know that it’s a questionable pursuit. That’s why Edith Wharton was on the money when she observed that “if only we’d stop trying to be happy we’d have a pretty good time.” I think she was probably right. I feel much better now.
Rebuttal
Some angst-ridden sorts prefer to think of happiness as an unattainable dream; that our Founding Fathers were sappy idealists to say the pursuit of happiness was an “inalienable right.” Some cynics say we’re hardwired toward either Scrooge or Pollyanna and must simply accept that happiness is little more than chemical impulses in the brain.
Oh bah, humbug.
Yes, there is some clinical predisposition toward happiness or moroseness. But the beauty of our Founders’ principle is that it is not happiness itself that’s guaranteed. Instead, we’re endowed by our Creator with the right to pursue happiness. And I respectfully suggest that if those angst-ridden cynics would learn to pursue happiness, they would be surprised to find it. Or even better, to find the deeper, less circumstances-driven version, which is joy.
Pursuing happiness doesn’t mean medicating oneself out of unhappiness. It doesn’t mean pursuing wine, money or women. And it’s not an unattainable dream.
Instead, let me quote from one of Diane’s “mass opiates” — the Bible. Sitting chained in jail, the Apostle Paul told the Philippians to “rejoice” in everything. How? “Fix your thoughts on what is true and honorable and right. Think about things that are pure and lovely and admirable. Think about things that are excellent and worthy of praise. ….How grateful I am…I have learned how to get along happily whether I have much or little.”
In other words: choose to focus on the positive, and your feelings will follow.
In several studies, academic psychologists Robert Emmons and Michael McCullough found the same thing: people who focused on feelings of gratitude ended up happier and more optimistic.
Surveys show that money doesn’t buy happiness, but relationships and faith sure seem to. A 2006 Pew Research study demonstrated that married people are, on average, significantly happier than the unmarried. And 43% percent of people who regularly attend religious services are “very happy,” compared to 26% of those who rarely do.
As professor David Myers, author of “The Pursuit of Happiness,” said in an interview, “The decline of marriage and other long-term relationships, and of communal life, is corrosive to happiness. We all have a deep need to enjoy close, supportive, intimate, enduring attachments.” And those don’t cost money.
Comments
By Lyrazel
August 28, 2006 08:57 AM | Link to this
If happiness is measured would it equal the % of ice cream eaten yearly or amount of pills consumed? Do married people eat more ice-cream thus tend to be happier? Because of the TV-mindset pre-requisite thin factor while dating singles consume less ice cream. Of course if you went to your doctor and said: I have been so unhappy…and she gives you a bowl of ice cream would you really want a pill?
By Renee
August 28, 2006 09:06 AM | Link to this
Is this really the topic???
By Mara
August 28, 2006 09:38 AM | Link to this
Sheesh. I thought the discussion about whether baby daddies should support their children and whether lactivists should be descreet were lame, but this one skips past lame and into inane…
Happiness isn’t an American dream, it’s a human dream and about as ephemeral as any other dream.
By Randy
August 28, 2006 09:45 AM | Link to this
My high school daughter was listening to a conversation between two girls on her bus last week. One was talking about how horrible the world is and the other was very happy with life. Later in the conversation, one of the girls discribed herself as a “liberal”. I told my daughter, let me guess which one said she was a liberal. I said it was the one who said the world was horrible. My daughter said how did you know that. I said it’s easy, goes to frame of mind. I see this so vividly, time after time, being a softball coach for years, the happy kids are the ones who go to church. Plain and simple.
By Chilao
August 28, 2006 09:47 AM | Link to this
Looks like Lyrazel needs to take a break from the ice cream fast, com’on, one bowl, everything in moderation, it will be okay..
Happiness is such a relative thing and comes and goes for many. To be asked ‘are you happy?’ is so strange, answer could be ‘overall?’, ‘right now?’ what does that even mean?. Interesting that a group of people that alledgedly have such a great thing going, (well, when they die anyway), have such a low percentage of being happy. LMAO
Now if you need to do all kinds of things to Keep up with the Jones, can I recommend counseling? LOL
By Troglodyke
August 28, 2006 10:01 AM | Link to this
“You are as happy as you make up your mind to be.” ~~Abe Lincoln
“Religion is the opiate of the masses.” ~~Karl Marx
Happiness is all in your head. Every bit of it. Happiness does not mean being “happy” all the time. True happiness comes from experiencing the joys as well as the sorrows, and accepting them with equal grace and maturity.
Popping a pill to get over your temporary depression is a weakness, and an affront to those who truly struggle with depression. Grow up and learn to be self-sufficient.
Shaunti’s assertion that attending religious services makes one happier is an interesting one. I wonder if that study looked at different denominations? How did they stack up to each other? Personally, I find organized religion generally causes unhappiness, but I guess being dulled into a sense of security about where you are going when you die is considered happiness to some people.
If it gets you through, and you aren’t trying to legislate based on religion, or deny other people their rights because of it, then salve yourself with religion all you like. Me? I’ll continue to spend Sunday mornings taking a walk in the woods, and you won’t be able to wipe the beatific smile off my face.
By Renee
August 28, 2006 10:14 AM | Link to this
good comment troglodyke!!
By candide
August 28, 2006 10:19 AM | Link to this
What Marx meant by opium of the people in speaking of religion was that religion was all the poor and miserable had.
I think opium, real opium, is a lot better than religion: fewer side effects, like intolerance, wars, bigotry and self-righteousness.
By candide
August 28, 2006 10:21 AM | Link to this
The government needs to guarantee people that they will never be so poor and deprived that they need the deadly opium of religion. That’s my electoral program.
By The72John
August 28, 2006 10:26 AM | Link to this
see this so vividly, time after time, being a softball coach for years, the happy kids are the ones who go to church. Plain and simple.
Yes, Renee…unfortunately this IS the topic.
Randy, do you understand that most liberals are religious? I know lots of liberals, and for the most part, they are all not only religious, but Christian as well.
There are lots of happy liberals, and I also know quite a few evangelical, fundamentalist types who spend five days a week in church who are miserable all the time, have horrible homelives, and make the lives of people around them miserable.
Religion does not in and of itself confer happiness, Randy, nor does the absence of it insure misery.
By GOD
August 28, 2006 10:27 AM | Link to this
Diane (and John)—Don’t forget that I always torment those who I love the most.
By candide
August 28, 2006 10:39 AM | Link to this
Randy: anyone who gets happy in church is either a fool or a knave — or he is on something other than piety and ecclesiastical tomfoolery.
By GOD
August 28, 2006 10:40 AM | Link to this
Renee, I’ve been watching you play holdem, and here’s my analysis of your style: (1) You’re playing way too many hands preflop (2) Even worse, you have difficulty folding strong starting hands after you “missed” the flop, and their value has changed. Remember, my dear, play “tight and aggressive”, don’t be a “calling station”.
By GOD
August 28, 2006 10:42 AM | Link to this
Quick note to Randy and Chuck—You better start stocking up on burn cream.
By GOD
August 28, 2006 10:50 AM | Link to this
Trog, just so you know, I’m with you out there in the woods on Sunday. I quit going to Church right after the first Council of Nicene.
By Luther J Maloney
August 28, 2006 11:02 AM | Link to this
One point to consider, pursuit as used in the Declaration of Independance does not mean to “chase after”. An archaic definition of pursuit is : 1)Activity pursued as a livelihood, and 2)A working at a profession or occupation. See : http://www.answers.com/topic/pursuit.
By The72John
August 28, 2006 11:03 AM | Link to this
Um, that would be “Nicea”, not “Nicene”
You’d think God would know that…
By Billy
August 28, 2006 11:15 AM | Link to this
The religious are more happy than the nonreligious?
Anyone evr hear the saying, “Ignorance is bliss?”
By Billy
August 28, 2006 11:17 AM | Link to this
I’ll be “happy” when they fix the blog…
By GOD
August 28, 2006 11:21 AM | Link to this
Sigh, Yes, John, even I make mistakes sometimes. As proof, consider Randy and Chuck.
By GOD
August 28, 2006 11:30 AM | Link to this
And actually, it’s spelled “Nicaea”.
By GOD
August 28, 2006 11:33 AM | Link to this
Chilao, my dear friend, you’ll be interested to know that I don’t consider the Bible my best work. It’s actually “Zen Mind, Beginner’s Mind” by Shunryu Suzuki. I believe you saw it in a bookstore before, but didn’t buy it.
By Just Being Me
August 28, 2006 11:34 AM | Link to this
ROFLMBO @ GOD!!!
By candide
August 28, 2006 11:38 AM | Link to this
If there were a God he would be embarrassed at the stupidities the biblical writers say about him.
There is no fool like a Christian.
By The72John
August 28, 2006 11:44 AM | Link to this
Sigh, Yes, John, even I make mistakes sometimes. As proof, consider Randy and Chuck.
OK, has Bruno reared his head again, adopting for this week a nom de blog that more accurately reflects his opinion of himself?
By The72John
August 28, 2006 11:46 AM | Link to this
And actually, it’s spelled “Nicaea”
I believe you’ll find that both are correct.
By GOD
August 28, 2006 11:56 AM | Link to this
John, I ask only one thing of you today—Please go to the following link and read the article:
www.ams.org/notices/200604/fea-franzen.pdf Notice how the author admits defeat on the last page.
By GOD
August 28, 2006 12:00 PM | Link to this
BC, I beg for you to read the same article. This is found at the American Mathematical Society website. And no, BC, the AMS is not a cover for a stealth Intelligent Design group. This is as blue chip as you get in the world of Mathematics.
By Just Being Me
August 28, 2006 12:01 PM | Link to this
I think it’s pretty rude to say that Christians are ignorant, stupid, or fools, even if that’s what you believe.
My mother says, “everything that comes into your head doesn’t have to come out of your mouth.”
By The72John
August 28, 2006 12:03 PM | Link to this
Oh geeze, the sanctimonious self-absorbed twit has returned.
By Renee
August 28, 2006 12:04 PM | Link to this
GOD - you’ve been watching the WRONG Renee, if that’s your interpretation of my playing.
I can’t believe I just responded to this!!
By GOD
August 28, 2006 12:05 PM | Link to this
Also, BC and any other disbeliever in me, please go to Amazon.com and find “Life Itself” by Robert Rosen. You don’t have to read the book, just read the free excerpt and the Customer Reviews, which provide an education in themselves.
By Mara
August 28, 2006 12:05 PM | Link to this
John - GOD can’t possibly be that troll. For one thing, GOD seems to be more tolerant than Bruno, and two…he has yet to call you or I stupid, arrogant, or invited us to return to our “Mutual Admiration Society”.
;^P
By Chilao
August 28, 2006 12:05 PM | Link to this
OK, has Bruno reared his head again, adopting for this week a nom de blog that more accurately reflects his opinion of himself?
took the words/post right outta me mouth/fingers. LMAO
By The72John
August 28, 2006 12:06 PM | Link to this
Later, people. The topic is passe and I don’t think I can take another week of Mr. “I use my disciplinary knowledge to bludgeon other people over the heads with abstruse and arcance scientific and mathematic ideas because I believe that specialized knowledge equates to superior intellect”.
Check y’all later when this pompous fool has departed.
By The72John
August 28, 2006 12:07 PM | Link to this
And yes, you prat, I realize it’s “arcane”. Those of us not blessed with your wisdom (and collosal arrogance) occasionally make typos.
By Chilao
August 28, 2006 12:08 PM | Link to this
My mother says, “everything that comes into your head doesn’t have to come out of your mouth.”
yes, there is certainly Virtue in knowing when to NOT TALK. (not to mention, a sign of higher intelligience..LMAO)
By GOD
August 28, 2006 12:09 PM | Link to this
This, BC is a REAL science book. Unfortunately, the Science community (that is the few who actually understand what he is saying)have tried to bury his ideas due to their potential impact. Mr. Rosen shatters the myth of Life being mechanistic, that is man being nothing more than a machine.
By Mara
August 28, 2006 12:10 PM | Link to this
This is found at the American Mathematical Society website. And no, BC, the AMS is not a cover for a stealth Intelligent Design group. This is as blue chip as you get in the world of Mathematics.
My apologies John. Evidently I was both too early in my conclusion and far too optimistic regarding the absence of He-who-dwells-beneath-the-rock…
By GOD
August 28, 2006 12:11 PM | Link to this
Deep down, you all know I exist. Yes, even you, BC and Diane. It is my “dysfunctional partner” who constantly tries to convince you otherwise.
By Jack
August 28, 2006 12:14 PM | Link to this
Hello All. Everyone take your daily soma and be happy. Love Ya!
By GOD
August 28, 2006 12:14 PM | Link to this
John, You should practice “taking the heat” more often, just in case…..
By 2D
August 28, 2006 12:14 PM | Link to this
Is the BLOG about the definition of happiness???
I thought it was about the pursuit of happiness. If church going folks are happy, then let them go to church. If non-church goers are happy, then let them not go to church. I don’t see any reason to call out names b/c different people find happiness in different places.
However, I do believe that deep down human beings desire a deep connection with other human beings. That might be through marriage, friednship, family, etc. but I can’t fathom a person being truly happy, isolated and alone. Maybe I’m wrong.
Randy… I take great offense with your school bus post b/c you are taking a back-handed slap at our liberal brothers and sisters. That girl on the bus wasn’t unhappy because she was a liberal. She identified herself as part of the “liberal” movement b/c she was unhappy about particular issues. The same way people join the “conservative” movement b/c they are unhappy with certain things. Or any other movement for that matter.
By Renee
August 28, 2006 12:16 PM | Link to this
JBM - just wondering if your mother has any advice on calling your friends LOL
By Renee
August 28, 2006 12:20 PM | Link to this
John - don’t run off because of HIM, whoever he might be…
Okay, it didn’t take much intelligence to be able to figure out who he is…any takers on what he might be LOL…
By Just Being Me
August 28, 2006 12:20 PM | Link to this
I think it’s pretty rude to say that Christians are ignorant, stupid, or fools, even if that’s what you believe.
My mother says, “everything that comes into your head doesn’t have to come out of your mouth.”
By Just Being Me
August 28, 2006 12:29 PM | Link to this
LOL Renee… My mom is as bad as I am with the phone! LOL!
Oh, I forgot to tell you I’ve been playing poker every day! Not quite an addict, but at least I got the hang of it. I went up to $700 the other day! LOL! And, another day I lost like $300 because I had a full house, Aces full of 10s and thought I’d win, but would you believe, this dude with only $20-something bucks had a royal flush and took every dime I had!!!! LOL! WHAT ARE THE FRIGGIN ODDS OF THAT????
Oh, also got hooked on Project Runway…
By Billy
August 28, 2006 12:33 PM | Link to this
JBM — My “ignorance is bliss” post does not apply to all churchgoers by any means. I intended no offense toward you. It was, however, geared toward Chuck, Randy, and their ilk. People like Our Fearless Leader who believe being disengaged is a positive. Who have no intellectual curiosity. Who, when called out on a simple fact (like Sweden having an army), grasp onto their ignorance like Rush onto Oxycontin.
(Scroll down to “I don’t know why you’re talking about Sweden” for the incident…)
By Mara
August 28, 2006 12:36 PM | Link to this
JBM - I’m pulling for either Michael or Laura…
By GOD
August 28, 2006 12:51 PM | Link to this
One last thought for BC and the other Science “geniuses” of the world, then I gotta run. Bush has me on the hotline and needs my advice on the Middle East.
Evolutionists state that life has existed on Earth for billions of years, and has grown increasingly more complex over that time period. At the same time, physicists state that “all closed systems ‘tend’ toward disorder”. Anyone notice a little disconnect between these two statements?
By GOD
August 28, 2006 12:53 PM | Link to this
Gotta run. So you can all breathe a little easier, I just want you to know that you are all in my Good Book. Yes, even Randy and Chuck. I love you all. Bush passes along his well wishes to everyone.
By Just Being Me
August 28, 2006 12:56 PM | Link to this
Billy, I wasn’t just talking about your comment. Group-bashing has been going on in this blog for the year I’ve been here. I just don’t like the generalizing Christians as being stupid, ignorant, or foolish for believing.
On another note, that link was HILARIOUS!!! I especially cracked up on the last one (Minty Fresh)!!! Hilarious!
Mara, those are my two favorites too!!! I especially want Michael to win, but Laura is my runner-up, and Kayne is my third pick. Michael is just so humble and peaceable, and TALENTED! Although I have to say I couldn’t see why he won the recyclables challenge… I thought the peanut sack dress was by far the best.
By SATAN666
August 28, 2006 01:04 PM | Link to this
HA HA, If you liked that hand, JustBeingMe, just wait to see what I have in store for you.
By Randy
August 28, 2006 01:24 PM | Link to this
On the girls on my softball teams for the last 8 or 9 years not going to church. At the start of the year my family would discuss each player on the team after a practice or two, just by how they acted. We can pick the girls who don’t go(fortunately there is usually only one or two)by how happy they are. It’s so vivid. The ones who didn’t go would be mad, sad or depressed every day(pretty much). Fortunately, the other girls on the team who went to church, have lead most of the girls who didn’t go to church, to church and now you don’t see a difference. Life is so much happier, when you know your eternal destination.
By Things that make you go HMM...
August 28, 2006 01:38 PM | Link to this
Life is so much happier, when you know your eternal destination.
I tell you the truth, it is hard for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven. Again I tell you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God. Matthew 19:24
By GOD
August 28, 2006 01:39 PM | Link to this
I’m back for just a moment—I’m happy to report that I got Bush to see the light one more time: Israel all the way! Go team! As for credit for my appearance today, please thank John. He foolishly claimed that Bruno’s pomposity paled in comparison to the bloggers over on the Wotten blog. I, along with Bruno, politely disagree.
Bruno said he won’t be back until Wed, so King John can resume control here. Bless you all!
By Renee
August 28, 2006 01:40 PM | Link to this
Puhleeeze Randy. Do you walk around in this haze every day.
Church = happiness??? You didn’t say their faith, their love for God, their knowledge of the Bible, but the mere fact that the attend church makes them happier than other kids. Having grown up in the church, the church kids are just as bad, if not worse behaved than the others. The things we used to do in the empty choir stands and in the church pews, while all of the adults were downstairs in Bible Study. My second cousin, a devout “churchgoer” killed himself at young age. The percentage of children who are actually at church to receive whatever the hell it is one is supposed to receive at church, is very small compared to the amount of children who are there, SIMPLY BECAUSE THEY WERE FORCED TO COME BY THEIR PARENTS. I might, just might, kind of, a little bit agree with you, had you said Christian children, or Jewish children or….
If church=happiness, does that go for the synagogue or the mosque?? I mean, can’t one have church at home. You don’t have to attend a building with a cross on it.
never mind……
By Mara
August 28, 2006 01:43 PM | Link to this
Life is so much happier, when you know your eternal destination
Randy knows the mind of God and is fully convinced that he is so holy that God couldn’t possibly refuse him entrance to heaven despite. No need to look for the mote in his eye or wonder who threw that first stone…
And isn’t it sweet that he and his family get together to gossip about those little girls and make assumptions about why they aren’t perky little miniature Katie Courics.
By Mara
August 28, 2006 01:50 PM | Link to this
JBM - I agree that the peanut dress was really good but what I liked about Michaels was that I could see what he meant when he said that he pictured the plastic “wrap” as organza and the sack skirt as linen. I could sooo appreciate that. The one I least like is that Vincent person, though Jeremy comes in a close second. I just don’t understand their viewpoints.
By Randy
August 28, 2006 01:53 PM | Link to this
Renee, I just telling you what I see in the hundreds of girls I have coached over the years. It’s so profound, it’s black and white.
Mara, I don’t claim to know the mind of God, he has however touched me with his heart. It’s my job to judge the girls, I’m the coach and their frame of mind hinders or enhances their preformance.
By Renee
August 28, 2006 01:57 PM | Link to this
It doesn’t count when you see it through “tinted glasses” Randy.
By chuck
August 28, 2006 02:00 PM | Link to this
I’m a little sheepish to admit it, but I’m starting to think this Bruno guy might be right. I’m going to study my Bible a little harder and try not to just see the parts that simply confirm my prejudices.
By Randy
August 28, 2006 02:01 PM | Link to this
The way I see it is, if I didn’t love my children enough to take them to church, I wouldn’t have any children. It’s that important.
By Randy
August 28, 2006 02:04 PM | Link to this
Honestly Renee, if there wasn’t a difference in the girls(how happy they were) I would tell you the truth. It gets worse the older they get, by the time they get to high school, it’s vivid.
By Right
August 28, 2006 02:14 PM | Link to this
But the beauty of our Founders’ principle is that it is not happiness itself that’s guaranteed. Instead, we’re endowed by our Creator with the right to pursue happiness.
Oh, make no mistake. Shaunti is ONLY talking about straight people. Gays/lesbians have no right to pursue happiness in her eyes.
Shaunti — how is that gas chamber coming along? Let me know when you are done so I can say goodbye to my loved ones (YES SHAUNTI GAYS AND LESBIANS HAVE LOVED ONES) before your gostapo hauls me off to gas me.
By Archie
August 28, 2006 02:15 PM | Link to this
Randy, do you understand that most liberals are religious? I know lots of liberals, and for the most part, they are all not only religious, but Christian as well.
This is so true 72John,as I went to church yesterday but I think some just use church here to start an argument. Whether a person goes to church or not really has nothing to do with this topic. I do think people from age 46 on down are overly influenced by tv as far as happiness goes. People in those age groups don’t seem to be as tough-minded as say older people. If one’s spouse snores we tend to run toward divorce court and we try to be happy with things instead of just enjoying life. No the pursuit of happiness is not just a dream.
By Mara
August 28, 2006 02:17 PM | Link to this
Randy, how can you say you “know” your eternal destination if you don’t know the mind of God? And no Randy. It isn’t your place to judge those little girls. It’s your place to show them how to play softball. Nothing more, nothing less. And what does gossiping about them with others have to do with their performance? Nothing, probably. But I bet it makes you and your family feel superior…
Renee @ 1:40 - well said. In fact, very well said.
By Chilao
August 28, 2006 02:21 PM | Link to this
If I get burglarized, affecting my ability to Feel secure in my home, can I sue the individual for infringing on my civil rights and my pursuit of happiness?
Or should I just call an exterminator, and have better pursuit of happiness?
By Toad
August 28, 2006 02:24 PM | Link to this
However, I do believe that deep down human beings desire a deep connection with other human beings. That might be through marriage, friednship, family, etc. but I can’t fathom a person being truly happy, isolated and alone. Maybe I’m wrong.
As someone who is in a loving relationship but doesn’t want to marry or live with my lover, I resent the ‘married people are happier’ stance. I think having people you love (friends, lovers, family) is important as is being in some type of community. A church, synagogue, mosque, political group, book group, writing group, poker or bridge group, or any other gathering of people with similar interests can increase one’s happiness. It’s not just the belief in god that can increase happiness, it’s the community of a religious institution or other group that is important.
By Troglodyke
August 28, 2006 02:30 PM | Link to this
If going to church makes you a Xtian, does going to the garage make you a car?
By the way, what church did Jesus attend? Was it big and ornate and ridiculously overdone? Was he allowed to wear his sandals?
Many of the Xtians of today would boot Jesus out of church before the organ music even started, looking as humble as he is often depicted.
By Lyrazel
August 28, 2006 02:32 PM | Link to this
I have been reading: John Adams by David McCullough…so far none of the Founding Fathers are happy guys. Nope, not a really happy one in the bunch…indeed the whole group seems…troubled…even after they win…
Have you noticed how most animosity on todays world stage are religious groups battling religious groups over religious land, concepts and mostly over whose god is better…or real? Now ask yourself why with such holy tenants and shrines to faith are believers blowing themselves, their monuments, shrines, relatives and temples up? If one further studies these areas of turmoil and faith one clearly sees deficiencies in the amount of ice cream consumed compared to peaceful areas where ice cream is plentiful, thus I do conclude if we began shipping massive quantities of ice cream to the Middle East and force the citizens to consume as much as Americans do…peace would reign….Amen.
By Troglodyke
August 28, 2006 02:35 PM | Link to this
It’s not just the belief in god that can increase happiness, it’s the community of a religious institution or other group that is important.
Very true. In fact, most of the normal churchgoers I know freely admit their involvement has as much or more to do with the sense of community they feel as it does the religion part.
Having strong relationships of all kinds—not just spousal—is what makes for a well-rounded, happy person.
Since few people want to hang out with sanctimonious jerks, relationships of all kinds make us better people.
By Bunny
August 28, 2006 02:35 PM | Link to this
I’m new here, and don’t have anyhting new to say, but I agree with Mara’s point to Randy at 2:17. The nicest Christians i know don’t prozelityse.
By Just Being Me
August 28, 2006 02:35 PM | Link to this
Mara, I don’t really care too much for Richard and can’t remember who Vincent is. But, I’ll tell you who I can’t stand and that’s the guy who made the dress for Angela’s mother. I want him OUT. He’s a jerk and he sucks and that dress was horrible. “Matronly” was putting it mildly.
By 2D
August 28, 2006 02:38 PM | Link to this
Toad… Where in there does it say ‘married people are happier’???
My bad, I should have listed out every single type of relationship combination to cover the ‘PC’ police.
By Toad
August 28, 2006 02:39 PM | Link to this
LOL!!! If enemies just sat down over an ice cream sundae all would be forgiven. Hot fudge! No, butterscotch! You infidel! Hot fudge is the only one, your sundae is wrong!
By Troglodyke
August 28, 2006 02:40 PM | Link to this
thus I do conclude if we began shipping massive quantities of ice cream to the Middle East and force the citizens to consume as much as Americans do…peace would reign….Amen.
I wonder what flavor Osama would prefer. I think Karamel Sutra from Ben & Jerry’s would be a good choice.
I, myself, am partial to Belgian Dark Chocolate by Godiva. I routinely call out to the Lord when I consume it. Maybe it should be served in church.
By chuck
August 28, 2006 02:40 PM | Link to this
I’m studying hard, so far haven’t come up with anything about the Sabbath being changed to Sunday, Christmas, or, my personal favorite, Easter eggs. What am I going to do with all this dye I bought?
By Zack
August 28, 2006 02:46 PM | Link to this
You can’t be happy if you’re not right with God, in this world or the next. It’s that simple.
I don’t like the prosperity gospel, either, and yes, humility has been overlooked by many “Christians.” I don’t like how a lot of churches are today, either. Basically, the goal with most of them is not to preach the gospel but instead to compromise and to present a false gospel, rick music, movie clips during sermons, etc., and anything else that will draw the masses, leading to more money and more people being swayed from Christ (I hate to say it, but the lies and propaganda in the classroom are being challenged by those being told in “churches”).
We need to return to the gospel. If you think putting anyone or anything ahead of Christ is going to lead to happiness, you’re sorely mistaken.
By Toad
August 28, 2006 02:47 PM | Link to this
2D — I was referring back to Shaunti’s statistic that married people are happier. I quoted your statement because you mention all types of relationships — friends, family, etc.
By Zack
August 28, 2006 02:50 PM | Link to this
Yes, Shaunti, we should pursue joy.
Norman/Candide—You need to seek the truth and not come in here attacking it. You need to put your bigotry aside and use the 16 hours per day that you’re not asleep to do something worthwhile. You are a very delusional individual. You and John are basically tied in the bigotry-spewing department, so why don’t you give it a rest?
By Things that make you go HMM...
August 28, 2006 02:51 PM | Link to this
My bad, I should have listed out every single type of relationship combination to cover the ‘PC’ police.
Better the PC police than the “I can say whatever I want about whomever I want because I’m a conservative, and if you don’t like it you hate America” police.
By chuck
August 28, 2006 02:51 PM | Link to this
And the wildest part, is that I went to that math link that guy mentioned www.ams.org/notices/200604/fea-franzen.pdf and found out that the arguments I’ve been using to rebut the Scientists are the very same arguments they have been using against me. The first few paragraphs are hard to read, but the author starts talking about Science and the Bible and the fallibility of both real quickly. And even though he denies the applicability of Godel to realms outside Math, if you skip to the end he finally throws his hands up and admits he’s wrong.
By chuck
August 28, 2006 02:53 PM | Link to this
So unlike in the past, I’m going to repent and admit here I’m wrong, like a man, just like my hero, Chilao. Of course, my flexing isn’t as impressive as his : > [ .
By Billy
August 28, 2006 02:54 PM | Link to this
I find that the happiest people are the ones who have the healthiest attitude toward sex…
By Toad
August 28, 2006 02:57 PM | Link to this
Ooh, Troglodyke, when’s church? Have you tried Dove’s chocolate/raspberry ice cream? Now that’s worth worshiping!
By Bunny
August 28, 2006 03:05 PM | Link to this
Zack, I agree with you too. I’ve alwasys felt that way, but have never spoken up.
By Bunny
August 28, 2006 03:08 PM | Link to this
I picked the name Bunny because I am active in the House Rabbit Society, a rabbit rescue organization. The things people do to bunnies makes me cry sometimes.
By Toad
August 28, 2006 03:09 PM | Link to this
You can’t be happy if you’re not right with God, in this world or the next. It’s that simple.
No, actually, it’s not that simple. I’m happy because I love myself, my life and my friends, lover, dog, etc. Nature, creativity, having interests, and just plain fun all contribute to happiness. No need for god or any spirituality.
By Bunny
August 28, 2006 03:09 PM | Link to this
They don’t make any noise as a defense mechanism from nature, so they just take the abuse in silence .
By Chilao
August 28, 2006 03:12 PM | Link to this
LOL @ Chuck and here I had so ever politely refrained from a “See you in Sabbath School then, Chuck?” post. LOL (actually had it keyed but declined to hit post)
well, I might have to learn where they have one(a SS) but….LOL
By Bunny
August 28, 2006 03:12 PM | Link to this
Of course, all thes dolts have “good intentions” when they buy them at mall pet stores. For me, that’s what the phrase “The path to Hell is paved with good intentions” means.
By Mara
August 28, 2006 03:12 PM | Link to this
JBM - Vincent is the one who looks like Al Franken’s depressed cousing. Jeremy is the jerk with the tatoo around his neck…the same one who made the “matronly” dress. Which one is Richard?
Bunny - It’s not “christians” that I have a problem with. It’s a certain breed of christian. The type like chuck, Randy, or Zack. If they’re not prosylatizing, they’re judging. If they’re not judging, they’re condemning. If they’re not condemning, they’re demonizing non-Christians. If they’re not doing any of the above…they’re probably asleep.
By The72John
August 28, 2006 03:13 PM | Link to this
Hmm…I guess there are no happy Bhuddists or Hindus or Jews or Agnostics or Wiccans or…
Nope, only crazy-a* fundy Christians are happy.
By Toad
August 28, 2006 03:14 PM | Link to this
Bunny, so these are the bunnies that kids get at Easter then the family ends up getting rid of them?
By Chilao
August 28, 2006 03:15 PM | Link to this
Norman/Candide—You need to seek the truth and not come in here attacking it. You need to put your bigotry aside and use the 16 hours per day that you’re not asleep to do something worthwhile.
or just find some good opium if that 16 hours is too high a number.
By chuck
August 28, 2006 03:15 PM | Link to this
Bunny, I’m with you. Now I see that all my “good intentions” are HorseSh*t. I wonder if John will catch that. It’s too bad he ran away today. He’s not a real man like me and Chilao. His flex is even worse than mine. : > ] .
By Renee
August 28, 2006 03:20 PM | Link to this
troglodyke - good 2:30 comment.
Maybe, Zack, just maybe….finding “the gospel” as you put it, is your happiness. Do you not understand the concept, that what makes you happy, may or may not make your neighbor happy. Just like your beliefs do not equate reality.
Never mind, you don’t get it either.
The arrogance with some Christians is truly, truly amazing. Their way is the only way. Ask them what the way is, they’ll tell you to follow God and “the Gospel”. Parroting whatever they heard someone else say…no real thoughts of their own.
It’s mighty funny Zack (I think it was you) that you call John and maybe Norman bigots, when it’s usually you and Randy, and sometimes Chuck that comes on here with the hatred. You all foam at the mouth like some mad dogs waiting to insert religion and God into every friggin subject. If the topic was whether Americans really eat apple pie, I bet a dollar to doughnuts, that one of the three of you all, if not all three, will find a way to gear it towards religion. Every friggin time.
By Chilao
August 28, 2006 03:21 PM | Link to this
I surprised a cottontail at night near my bird feeder, by turning on the massive outside spot lights.
that little thing shot 3-4 FEET straight up into the air before taking off. I was like “WOW”
By Bunny
August 28, 2006 03:21 PM | Link to this
Mara, i got my dictionary to check my spelling of “prozelityze” and “prosylatizing”. It’s actually “proselytize”. Silly me touse a big word i didn’t know how to spell.
By GOD
August 28, 2006 03:24 PM | Link to this
Trog, So how is your opinion of Bruno’s tour de force coming along? He doesn’t always play by the rules, but even I get a kick out of him sometimes. I hope John reads it later, it’s faintly Shakespearean.
By GOD
August 28, 2006 03:26 PM | Link to this
FYI, a little known fact about Bruno is that he is a member of the House Rabbit Society like Bunny. Don’t tell John, it might challenge his sterotypes.
By GOD
August 28, 2006 03:29 PM | Link to this
One last admonition, John, whenever you think you’ve got it tough in life, remember that the average lifespan of a mistreated bunny is just a few weeks or months. With the proper care, they can live 8-12 years.
By GOD
August 28, 2006 03:31 PM | Link to this
And keep up those “good intentions”. Maybe one day you’ll realize that even Hitler thought he was nothing more than a misunderstood Good Samaritan.
By GOD
August 28, 2006 03:32 PM | Link to this
So Trog, no props for poor Bruno?
By Chilao
August 28, 2006 03:33 PM | Link to this
But an apple pie is for the Godly man. Those pagan/heathens are the ones who eat pineapple/coconut pies or gasp Key Lime Pies.
By Renee
August 28, 2006 03:34 PM | Link to this
The blog is quite comical today!!
By The72John
August 28, 2006 03:35 PM | Link to this
What a blooming moron.
By Jack
August 28, 2006 03:35 PM | Link to this
Reminds me of a commercial about VD. The star was Peter Rotten Tail.
By Toad
August 28, 2006 03:40 PM | Link to this
Chilao — Heathen/Pagan desserts — Ha, ha! My mother used to make an angel food cake, cover it with whipping cream and crushed pineapple and then freeze it before serving. After she married my stepfather he called it “sissy food” and told her not to make it any more. Spaghetti was also sissy food.
By Chilao
August 28, 2006 03:44 PM | Link to this
Reminds me of a commercial about VD. The star was Peter Rotten Tail.*
Commercial? You getting it confused with boot camp flicks?
there was a Playboy cartoon, years ago, sailor in the room with a Hamburg hooker, as he undresses, his initials proudly tattoed on his chest, as she shreeks and pulls back, he states “Honest, my name is Virgil Dortmunder”.
By Mara
August 28, 2006 03:46 PM | Link to this
mmmmmmm….Key lime pie….uurragghhhhhh(drool)
By Peter Gabriel
August 28, 2006 03:48 PM | Link to this
I, for one, like Bruno. I even wrote a humorous Mathematical ditty with epistemologically nihilistic overtones—Its called “Counting Out Time” from my days with Genesis on the album “The Lamb Lies Down on Broadway”. You remember that one, Chilao?
By Renee
August 28, 2006 03:52 PM | Link to this
LOL Chilao
By The72John
August 28, 2006 03:53 PM | Link to this
Main Entry: meg·a·lo·ma·nia Pronunciation: “me-g&-lO-‘mA-nE-&, -ny& Function: noun Etymology: New Latin 1 : a mania for great or grandiose performance 2 : a delusional mental disorder that is marked by feelings of personal omnipotence and grandeur
By Chilao
August 28, 2006 03:53 PM | Link to this
Genesis? Journey? Phil Collins? Are those music people? Names sound familiar but I am ot familiar with their stuff. LOL No, have no clue, to answer your question.
But Jack, did some Alvin Lee over the weekend.(thanks to you)
By Chilao
August 28, 2006 03:55 PM | Link to this
mmmmmmm….Key lime pie….uurragghhhhhh(drool)
I knew it I knew it, you are one of THEM.. LMAO
to quote Renee - Somebody stop me.
By Peter Gabriel
August 28, 2006 03:55 PM | Link to this
I found a girl I wanted to date Thought I better get it straight Went to buy a book before it’s too late Can’t leave nothing to fate I’ve studied every line, every page in the book Now, I’ve got the real thing here, I’m gonna take a look
By Jack
August 28, 2006 03:56 PM | Link to this
I like “cream pie”.
By Just Being Me
August 28, 2006 03:57 PM | Link to this
JBM - Vincent is the one who looks like Al Franken’s depressed cousing. Jeremy is the jerk with the tatoo around his neck…the same one who made the “matronly” dress. Which one is Richard?
For some reason I thought you had mentioned Richard in your previous post, Mara. :-/
I think Richard is the dark-haired one who got voted off instead of Vincent during the week they designed for the moms/sisters… isn’t that his name? Gotta go check…
By Peter Gabriel
August 28, 2006 03:57 PM | Link to this
I’m counting out time, hope it goes like I planned it, cuz I understand it. Look! I’ve found the hotspots, figures 1-9
By Just Being Me
August 28, 2006 03:58 PM | Link to this
Oops, it’s Robert, not Richard.
By Chilao
August 28, 2006 03:59 PM | Link to this
“Etymology” was quickly read as Entomology and I had to wonder what species….
By Peter Gabriel
August 28, 2006 03:59 PM | Link to this
Still counting out time Got my finger on the button So don’t say nothin Just lie there, And I’ll get you turned on just fine
By Peter Gabriel
August 28, 2006 04:01 PM | Link to this
Oops, touch and go with 1-6 Bit of trouble in zone number 7 Gotta remember all of my tricks Cause there’s heaven ahead in number 11!
By Peter Gabriel
August 28, 2006 04:02 PM | Link to this
Getting crucial responses, dilation of the pupils Honey get hip, it’s time to unzip
By Peter Gabriel
August 28, 2006 04:04 PM | Link to this
Erogenous Zones, I question you: Without you what would a poor boy do? Without you mankind handkinds through the blues.
By Alvin Lee
August 28, 2006 04:08 PM | Link to this
I’d love to change the world, but I don’t know what to do, so I leave it up to you.
By Toad
August 28, 2006 04:09 PM | Link to this
Peter, Enough with the song lyrics! You’re interrupting my pursuit of happiness.
By Peter Gabriel
August 28, 2006 04:10 PM | Link to this
So, John, do you, like me, usually have trouble in zone #7? BC is still trying to understand the diagrams.
By Jimi Hendrix
August 28, 2006 04:17 PM | Link to this
Now if 6 turned out to be 9, I don’t mind, I don’t mind. If all the mountains fell in the sea, let it be, it ain’t me. Cause I’ve got my whole world to live through, and I a’int gonna copy you
By Jimi Hendrix
August 28, 2006 04:18 PM | Link to this
White collar conservative, flashing down the street, pointing your plastic finger at me. Pretty soon, your kind will fall and die, cuz I’m throwing away my freak flag.
By Troglodyke
August 28, 2006 04:21 PM | Link to this
GOD, to answer your question, I was mildly amused by Bruno for a while, but I must say my good-naturedness dissipated the more he posted…and posted…and posted…about, well, nothing.
So, I’m sorry to say I was mistaken about him, though I appreciate him calling out the phony Xtians.
By 2D
August 28, 2006 04:25 PM | Link to this
Billy… Just what exactly is a healthy attitude toward sex???
By 2D
August 28, 2006 04:30 PM | Link to this
HMM… Not sure that I agree with you. Both “police” forces are ruining this country.
One locks down what people can and can’t do. The other takes personal offense when they don’t get the personal validation they need. Neither one is worth a crap.
By Jack
August 28, 2006 04:35 PM | Link to this
and the forests will echo in laughter…
By Jack
August 28, 2006 04:36 PM | Link to this
Sex is for procreation ONLY. Got it?
By Billy
August 28, 2006 04:53 PM | Link to this
A healthy attitude toward sex is one that allows others to do what they please as long as all are consenting adults. It is an attitude that allows one’s self to engage in sexual activity without guilt or shame. It goes hand-in-hand with the self-respect and self-esteem necessary to realize that sex is not to be used as a tool for others’ approval, or to mete out punishmen, or to wield power over others. (Unless that’s their, and your, cup of tea…) Sex is not love, but it does augment it. Love is not sex, but it augments it as well.
By Billy
August 28, 2006 04:55 PM | Link to this
Sex is for procreation ONLY. Got it?
If so, then I’m a miserable failure, as it has only resulted in procreation for me between .1 and .2% of the time…
By The72John
August 28, 2006 04:57 PM | Link to this
GOD, to answer your question, I was mildly amused by Bruno for a while, but I must say my good-naturedness dissipated the more he posted…and posted…and posted…about, well, nothing.
You realize that they are the same person, don’t you? The real clue is their ponderous, falsely erudite style which involves quoting various abstruse theories which serve to bolster their false and delusional belief that they are then not only more intelligent than everyone else, but that knowledge of a particular discipline somehow grants them god-like omnipotence about everything.
By Billy
August 28, 2006 05:09 PM | Link to this
I’m not so sure that today’s “Chuck” isn’t actually Bruno/God…
By TramadoL38062
August 28, 2006 08:59 PM | Link to this
I haven’t been up to much lately. I’ve basically been doing nothing , but it’s not important. I can’t be bothered with anything recently. I’ve just been letting everything happen without me lately.
By TramadoL25234
August 28, 2006 10:27 PM | Link to this
I feel like a complete blank, but I don’t care. Pfft. I’ve pretty much been doing nothing worth mentioning.
By TramadoL58362
August 28, 2006 10:33 PM | Link to this
I haven’t gotten anything done today. I feel like a fog, but what can I say? I’ve just been letting everything wash over me lately, not that it matters. Shrug.
By TramadoL30427
August 28, 2006 10:38 PM | Link to this
Not much on my mind lately. My life’s been completely boring these days. I’ve just been hanging out not getting anything done. So it goes.
By TramadoL64739
August 29, 2006 01:20 AM | Link to this
I can’t be bothered with anything these days, but shrug. I just don’t have anything to say recently. I haven’t gotten much done recently. Nothing seems worth thinking about.
By TramadoL46849
August 29, 2006 03:17 AM | Link to this
I feel like a complete blank, but I don’t care. Pfft. I’ve pretty much been doing nothing worth mentioning.
By Brian Curtis
August 29, 2006 08:17 AM | Link to this
Kind of a weak topic… Should we address whether happiness is a “dream” (as opposed to an achievable goal), or whether it’s uniquely “American”?
I see Bruno’s still pretending to know something and has now promoted himself to deity status. Maybe he’ll get more hit points and a higher Charisma score too. Sheesh, what a loser!
By Chilao
August 29, 2006 08:51 AM | Link to this
I’m not so sure that today’s “Chuck” isn’t actually Bruno/God…
Yes, Chuck calling me his hero certainly is suspicious, isn’t it? Of course, being the positive-thinking person that I am, I just figured it is never to late for Hope, or even for Chuck(et al) to Evolve.
By Chilao
August 29, 2006 08:58 AM | Link to this
too late? fast keying does that kinda stuff.
to/too/two actually a stickler of mine, but who would have known?..LOL as well as their/they’re/there
By Randy
August 29, 2006 09:14 AM | Link to this
Yesterday someone called me hateful. That confuses me, as there is nothing in my heart that is hateful, I like everybody(I just don’t respect some). Maybe my posts come from someone who is confused, I see several of you attack Church and I’m going when someone dies, these people don’t go to the Church service? When someone gets married, these people don’t go to the church ceremony? I guess I was raised different than some of you. I look at the universe and I say, in the beginning, some of these people think the universe just appeared out of thin air, at random, without a creator(that’s not possible)? I don’t mean to sound hateful(I will try to change my tone). But, believing in church and a creator are “elementary my dear Watson).
By Troglodyke
August 29, 2006 09:21 AM | Link to this
Yes, John, I am aware that Bruno was playing God yesterday. His pomposity knows no bounds. His first few comments as the deity were funny, but it went downhill from there.
By Mara
August 29, 2006 09:38 AM | Link to this
Randy - it’s not going to church, or even believing in a creator that most of us have problems with. It’s your (and others) tendancy to promote that belief into the realm of “fact”. Then there’re the obvious annoyances involved in your belief that you have the right (and obligation?) to judge others. Like the way you yourself declared in your 1:53 post yesterday “It’s my job to judge the girls” Silly me to have thought it was Gods job to judge, not yours. But then, as you have so pridefully declared, you already know that Gods gonna find you holy enough for heaven…so maybe you should be judging everyone else instead of looking to your own soul.
No, I don’t really want to discuss theology with you. As one of those who commented on your arrogance-of-belief yesterday, I thought it only fair to say that it isn’t the theology that annoys, it’s the way you (and others) corrupt it.
By Renee
August 29, 2006 09:40 AM | Link to this
Okay, Randy, let’s try this.
You are religious and believe in God, correct??
(answer here)
God is a very important part of your life?
(answer here)
You obey God’s word and the gospel so you may attain everlasting life?
(answer here)
You do not understand why anyone else would not believe and live as you do?
(answer here)
Okay, I’m going purely off assumptions here, but I can pretty much guess how you would answer these questions. Now, are you really unable to maybe not understand why someone does not share your beliefs, but respect their decision to do so.
Here’s an example. I loooove seafood. I think it’s the best food ever!!! I can’t understand for the life of me why anyone else does not like seafood. However, I do not try to force others to eat seafood that either do not like it or are even allergic to it. While my belief is that seafood is wonderful and tastes great, my neighbor may find it terrible tasting. Others may think it’s not right to kill the fish etc..
It’s about respecting anothers beliefs and choices. I don’t think I can get any more basic than that!
By TramadoL11862
August 29, 2006 09:43 AM | Link to this
Not much on my mind lately. My life’s been completely boring these days. I’ve just been hanging out not getting anything done. So it goes.
By Chilao
August 29, 2006 09:44 AM | Link to this
I forgot to call my niece last night and tell her she needed to drop that happy go lucky positive attitude of her’s and start being dour and sour, (since she does not attend church). LOL
By Troglodyke
August 29, 2006 09:48 AM | Link to this
Yesterday someone called me hateful. That confuses me, as there is nothing in my heart that is hateful, I like everybody(I just don’t respect some).
You know what, Randy? I believe you. I disagree with you fundamentally on just about everything I’ve ever read of yours on this blog, but I don’t think you are hateful.
In fact, I don’t believe most Christianists are actually hateful, though many in “my camp” like to attach that descriptor to them. Hate is a good strong word, so it works. But I don’t see it as actual hate, what these fundies feel toward us. In fact, I am tired of gays/liberals/etc. assuming that anyone who disagrees with us is “hateful.” It isn’t always hate.
You know what I think it is? Fear, plain and simple.
You fear that which you do not know. You have no interest in getting to know people like us (gays and/or nonbelievers in general), and so it is easy to be fearful.
Now, you are probably thinking (as are Chuck and Zack) that you don’t actually fear homos, how silly…what could we do to you? But it isn’t that kind of fear.
You are not afraid of us in that way. You are afraid that, by getting to know us, you might find out we are pretty normal. You are scared to death that what your heart and brain tells you about us, when you actually know us, will go directly against everything you have ever been told about us. All the lies will be revealed, and that scares you. I mean, if the pastor lied about gays, well, what else did he lie about?
You are afraid that your vengeful, angry god will punish you if you don’t speak out against our purported sinfulness.
As a disciple, you are commanded to spread the word of god, and making nice with people who are, in your eyes, headed blithely into hell would not sit well with your god.
Condemning our “sin,” our “lifestyle,” our “wickedness” is easy for you to do from your lofty perches. You believe it brings god’s favor upon you, and you believe it is the right thing to do. Fear is driving your words and actions.
Christianists are, by nature, fearful. That is what religious belief is for, after all. The term god-fearing is proudly used in your churches. You will say you don’t fear us sinners, but fear still drives you.
If this serves you as a human being, then so be it. As long as you keep it to yourself, I say, be as scared as you like.
It’s when you get together with other scaredy-cats and pass laws that restrict others’ rights, and fill your children’s ears and eyes with contempt toward those not like you, and poison other people against us, that I get angry. It’s when you spread lies about us, and pretend they are true, and warp the teachings of your deity to further your causes. It’s when you preach “family values” and do not see that you generally have no idea what that even means. Those are the reasons I have no respect for fundamentalists.
* I guess I was raised different than some of you.*
I was raised in the church. I was taken every Sunday, and I went to a parochial school. I rejected the church when I became old enough to question it, and no one with “authority” would ever answer my questions truthfully. I left, cheerfully and without rancor, and never looked back. I chose love, and knowledge, over fear. It was the best decision I ever made.
Many of us did the same. It’s obvious that some people are born to question that which they are told, and to think for themselves, while most are not. Those who question often find the church lacking, and leave it. Those who do not question enjoy the security it gives them. So be it.
I look at the universe and I say, in the beginning, some of these people think the universe just appeared out of thin air, at random, without a creator(that’s not possible)?
I am not a scientist, and I admit I know little about the origins of the Universe. Frankly, I don’t really concern myself with it—it just doesn’t interest me. But I believe, from the bottom of my internal organs, and with every fiber of my being, that the man you call god was not responsible for making it. I believe the scientists when they say the earth is billions of years old, and I believe the evidence for this, and the evidence for evolution.
I don’t mean to sound hateful(I will try to change my tone). But, believing in church and a creator are “elementary my dear Watson).
Elementary for you. That’s it. Your choices don’t set the standard for everyone. Once you realize that, you’ll be a lot happier.
If you can ever let go of the fear.
By Mara
August 29, 2006 09:57 AM | Link to this
Troglodyke - (applause, applause) Take a bow, Trog. That was extremely well-said…
By Renee
August 29, 2006 10:05 AM | Link to this
Troglodyke - very good comment.
In fact, I don’t believe most Christianists are actually hateful, though many in “my camp” like to attach that descriptor to them. Hate is a good strong word, so it works. But I don’t see it as actual hate, what these fundies feel toward us. In fact, I am tired of gays/liberals/etc. assuming that anyone who disagrees with us is “hateful.” It isn’t always hate
I just wanted to comment on this. I don’t believe that most Christians are hateful either, however, it’s the hateful Christians that seem to show themselves the most, and speak the loudest. There are so many issues that they could speak up about, but it’s the Gay Rights and abortion rallies that they speak up at and turn out for. Going down to the State Capitol to oppose the gay marriage amendment, I saw Church buses coming every minute. They shout and hold signs and call names and acted….well…hateful. Those are the images that are seen, and those are the images that come to mind when someone says Christian. If a Christian, ever approaches me with love and/or respect then I will return the same.
My mother in law is a “Christian” but her face is always turned into this snarl, she never has nothing good to say, and spends countless hours trying to preach what we should or should not be doing.
I’ve said it from the beginning, it’s not the message, it’s the delivery of the message, and sometimes it’s the messenger.
By Mara
August 29, 2006 10:19 AM | Link to this
Renee - you may join Troglodyke on the podium anytime you like :^)
hey, Chilao, Brian. (wave)
By Renee
August 29, 2006 10:25 AM | Link to this
Thanks, Mara ;-)!!
By Best
August 29, 2006 10:28 AM | Link to this
Shaunti just made the greatest argument for same-sex marriage that there could be.
“Instead, we’re endowed by our Creator with the right to pursue happiness. A 2006 Pew Research study demonstrated that married people are, on average, significantly happier than the unmarried.”
But alas, her idea of freedom America is only for straight people, specifically Christian straight people. Any rights that homosexuals could have should be banned by constitutional amendment.
Sadly, S**, you can’t talk out of both sides of your mouth. But then I am speaking of someone so crazy that she equals gays and lesbians with nazis and the holocaust.
By Chilao
August 29, 2006 11:09 AM | Link to this
People are usually fearful of change, that is some of what is driving religious (Islamic or otherwise) fundamentalism.
Hi Mara!
By 2D
August 29, 2006 11:12 AM | Link to this
Trog… Great post. I very much liked the Fear analagy. My pastor believes that Fear is the worst of all human emotions. Fear is behind all of the dastardly things we do on personal, local, national and international levels. However I do not equate that emotion with the term God-Fearing. Instead, I would say God-Respecting.
I believe that God has provided a guidebook for life and following that guide will provide a happy, healthy and fulfilling life on the Earth. That may mean not exploring or experimenting with various things, but that is the choice once has to make.
I liken it to following the posted speed limit. People can either follow the speed limit or not. If you follow the speed limit, the number of bad things that can happen are greatly reduced, potential damages are diminished, but the ride may not be as exhierating. If you don’t follow the speed limit you may get a momentary rush of adreneline, but the margin of error and the potential consequences are greatly increased and can linger for a very long time. Perhaps this is too simplistic a view. Oh well, I don’t like to overcomplicate anything.
By Bruce
August 29, 2006 11:15 AM | Link to this
Renee said:”I’ve said it from the beginning, it’s not the message, it’s the delivery of the message, and sometimes it’s the messenger.”
Maybe you have been listening to the wrong messenger!
By 2D
August 29, 2006 11:21 AM | Link to this
Chilao… I don’t believe people are fearful of change. I believe people are skeptical of any change where the benefits cannot be clearly articulated and those benefits outweight the potential negatives.
For example… Do you think that farmers were afraid of trading in their horses and plows for a tractor??? Of course not, the articulated benefits far outweighed the potential negatives.
Societal changes are much different and more complex because the benefits are less quantifiable and whether or not they outweigh the potential negatives can always be debated and it is very difficult to revert back once changes have been made. That is why, in my opinion, those types of change should move slowly and when in doubt side with caution.
By lozen
August 29, 2006 11:33 AM | Link to this
Randy, But, believing in church and a creator are “elementary my dear Watson). Then why do we have to go to church to learn this? Why aren’t we just born with that idea? If you had been born in Afghanistan you would be Muslim. You would be just as sure that way was the only right way as you are now sure than the xtian church is the only true way. If you had been born in India you would be Hindu and you would think that way was the only true way to the creator. You wouldn’t question your Muslim or Hindu religion and I suppose you’d be on some blog in Afghanistan or India trying to tell everybody there that your way is the only way. If you’re so sure you’re right and if you’re so happy with your religion Randy, why are you spending so much time on this blog trying to convince people who will NEVER believe what you believe? Why aren’t you in your closet praying and getting closer to your god? Why aren’t you reviewing your actions to make sure you’re right with your god? Why aren’t you reading your holy book so you can learn more about your god? All I can conclude Randy, is that you aren’t as sure about it as you would like to think. It seems that you must have some doubts about your way really being the only way to spiritual fulfillment. Examine thyself.
By Renee
August 29, 2006 11:38 AM | Link to this
Perhaps, Bruce, but I don’t think so. I’m really not interested in the message, however, it’s hard to listen (or better yet hear) to the “wrong messenger”, when they are screaming at the top of their lungs.
But, basically, the message is of no importance to me, where it is of obvious large proportional importance to them.
By lozen
August 29, 2006 11:45 AM | Link to this
I would just like to state I’m very happy with my personal life and I am a full pledged, card-carrying liberal. I’m also single and much happier than I was when I was married. I am not happy about the pain, death, sickness, injustice, hate, and ignorance on this planet. I think those teenager girls Randy claims are so happy will surely come to grief later in life. Teenagers have many reasons not to be happy. The teenage years and young adult years are the time to struggle with who you are and what you want. It’s the time to question what is real, to rebel, to decide for yourself what you believe and to find your true self. That’s a big, hard job but the people who don’t do it are just sad. Anyone who thinks about the problems of the world - innocent people dying every day in war and natural disaster, for example - can’t be completely happy. Anyone who opens their eyes to the pain and injustice in the world will be unhappy to some extent if they care for other human beings. And that is good, not bad. It’s the only way we change the world to make it a better place.
By Billy
August 29, 2006 11:55 AM | Link to this
2D — I agree with you about the “handbook” for a good life idea, however I believe too many people see them as hard and fast rules. My-way-or-the-highway sort of stuff. There is no doubt in my mind that everyone would be happier if everyone followed Jesus’ teachings. Unfortunately, most evangelicals today are focused on homosexuality, a topic Jesus, to the best of my knowledge, never addressed.
I follow Jesus’ teachings as well as most self-professed Christians do. I try not to judge others. Most here know I’m a fairly staunch liberal. My personal life, however, is a conservative one. I never did anything wrong as a kid. I didn’t drink or have sex in high school. The only drug I’ve tried is pot, and only a handful of times when I was 22 or so. I’ve never smoked. I don’t judge people who choose to do the opposite, though, and I believe it is their right to do what they please as long as it does not hurt anyone else.
Thomas Jefferson cut up a Bible. He took everything Jesus said and created his own gospel of sorts using it. He cut out all the magic tricks and preachy crap others injected. Perhaps more would be open to it were we to do this today. Distilled down to Jesus and his instructions, the Bible makes a lot of sense. Leave out the hocus pocus and the divinity crap, and you do have a good book of guidelines for living a decent life. Inject the worthwhile lessons with the hellfire & brimstone of a vengeful god, 5000 year-old superstition, and random moral judgements, however, and the tidy, useful guidebook becomes little more than a tool with which to bludgeon unbelievers in the name of the righteous.
By lozen
August 29, 2006 12:02 PM | Link to this
Trog and Renee, we may have to get another tiara so both of you can wear one today! I’m not interested in the xtian message either. I know it, and it doesn’t make any sense to me. Like Trog, science does make sense and provide supporting data. There is no supporting data for the whole xtian belief system. I’ve read about other cultures and other religions. And Trog, you’re so right about the fear factor. I was terrified when I first began questioning the xtian myth. The church makes sure people are filled with fear of questioning or thinking about it. And I was told over and over, “You can’t question god and the bible!” I had to do it anyway! It was hard. It was painful. I had to leave behind many people I cared for. I felt so alone in that space between giving up my old beliefs and ideas and finding new beliefs and ideas to replace them. Each of us must follow our own path. “To thine own self be true.”
By lozen
August 29, 2006 12:06 PM | Link to this
Oh, yikes! Billy, we might need three tiaras.
By lozen
August 29, 2006 12:12 PM | Link to this
Shaunti’s quote about Paul, Instead, let me quote from one of Diane’s “mass opiates” — the Bible. Sitting chained in jail, the Apostle Paul told the Philippians to “rejoice” in everything. How? “Fix your thoughts on what is true and honorable and right. Think about things that are pure and lovely and admirable. Think about things that are excellent and worthy of praise. ….How grateful I am…I have learned how to get along happily whether I have much or little.” This is very true and surely Shaunti knows Paul learned this from the Greek philosophers!
By Mara
August 29, 2006 12:48 PM | Link to this
lozen - of course she doesn’t. She knows that those pagan idol worshippers stole those ideas from Christians, just like they did every other progressive idea they’ve been credited with. Everyone knows that non-Christians have nothing worthwhile to teach anyone. Pauls insight, however, was a gift from God…LOL!!
By Billy
August 29, 2006 12:50 PM | Link to this
Not sure a tiara works for me, but thanks all the same…
By Chilao
August 29, 2006 12:53 PM | Link to this
Mara - you left out the ‘how could those pagan worshipping/homo-loving Greeks come up with anything worthwhile’? oh, wait, I guess you kinda did say that…LMAO
By Randy
August 29, 2006 12:58 PM | Link to this
Trog, nice try, however, I don’t fear anything(raised to be a warrior), if there were no meaning to the universe and to life, that would be fine with me. However, if you are honest with yourself, there being no creator, doesn’t make sense.
Renee, do I understand why others don’t believe as I do, yes, I can see them thinking that way. But then I think eternity is important enough, that I would think this whole thing thru. I can’t buy the universe just appearing out of thin air by itself in the beginning, without help from a supernatural being. I also, feel I have a spirit(I have felt it many times)and just the nature of a spirit, is immortal.
By Randy
August 29, 2006 01:02 PM | Link to this
Lozen is reaching for straws again.
By 2D
August 29, 2006 01:03 PM | Link to this
Billy… If you believe everyone would be happier following Jesus’ teachings, why do you hammer away at religious folks so relentlessly??? Because they don’t distill down Jesus teachings??? Don’t you think his teachings should be taken into context with the entire history of the Hebrew people??? You need the rest of the story for that and in your view that story should be discarded.
Also, I personally would shy away from taking Jefferson as an example of anything except duplicity. He was a very smart man but easily discarded his “ideals” when they contradicted with practicle applications.
By Billy
August 29, 2006 01:22 PM | Link to this
I can’t buy the universe just appearing out of thin air by itself in the beginning, without help from a supernatural being. I also, feel I have a spirit(I have felt it many times)and just the nature of a spirit, is immortal
What does this have to do with anything? I wholeheartedly agree with everything cited here, but I do not see how it applies. It is not the existence of a creator I and many others like me have an issue with, but your insistence that you magically know specific attributes of that creator, and how he thinks and feels.
By Renee
August 29, 2006 01:28 PM | Link to this
Randy - you are still missing the “big picture”. I’m not debating with you the validity of what you believe, but simply the fact that others (including myself) do not believe and your ability to respect that.
So, it’s not whether or not eternity is important to you but whether you can respect the fact that it is not of importance to me.
I no more believe that when I die, not when I’m living, but when I die, that life is suddenly going to be better, based upon my behavior while living, than I do in fairies and elves. Having said that, I am, however, able to respect the fact that you believe in what I don’t.
And if you end up in “heaven” with the streets paved of gold and rivers of milk and honey (I don’t know why that would be utopia, but I’ll go with it), then pooh on me!!
By Randyr
August 29, 2006 01:48 PM | Link to this
Billy, There is no magic, this is all in the bible and has been there for 1700 years and longer.
Renee, heaven doesn’t have gold and milk and honey, that’s symbolic, heaven isn’t on this physical plane, it’s a spiritual plane, no need for Gold. I do respect your opinion, just trying to give you something to think about.
By Billy
August 29, 2006 01:51 PM | Link to this
2D — I’m generally one of the first people to point out that the founding fathers were not saints to be put on pedestals. I was simply pointing out that Jefferson’s idea held, and still holds, merit.
And I don’t hammer at those who do not also hammer. The Bible is a handbook, not a cudgel. And if we’re going to take Jesus’ teachings in context of the times, then we have to continue to do so now. Meaning that the literal interpretations 2000-5000 years later do not hold water, and that applications of the Bible to everyday life should be handled carefully. To come back to hoomosexuality, since the Religious Reich seems so obsessed with it — why is that specific thing such a big deal when almost every Christian I know eats shellfish, pork, and other forbidden foods? And my favorite passage, Deuteronomy 22:28-29, which states that if a man rapes a virgins he must pay her father and marry the victim — why are more evangelicals not proponents of changing the penal code to reflect that commandment? Why is is it that two men having sex is an affront to God while eating lobster is not?
As long as the uber-religious continue to beat the rest of society over the head with their religion, I’ll continue to avail myself of the right to call them out on their bigotry and hypocrisy. They should just let us choose to take the teachings of the man instead of relentlessly trying to force the divinity down our throats.
By Renee
August 29, 2006 02:08 PM | Link to this
Randy - thanks, but no thanks on the “something to think about”. BUT, I do appreciate your tone. If you talked like this all the time Randy, debating your side, without the overindulgence of superiority, you would be heard a lot more.
There’s never a reason to berate someone for their beliefs, unless their beliefs put someone else’s life or liberty in harm’s way.
By Reason
August 29, 2006 02:19 PM | Link to this
Haagen-Dazs Macadamia-Brittle comes pretty close.
By Randy
August 29, 2006 02:26 PM | Link to this
Renee, It’s my nature, I don’t have doubts on God or on success in business etc. I guess it comes thru on my posts. I respect and like everyone.
By Al Bumen
August 29, 2006 02:26 PM | Link to this
I notice Diane didn’t choose the starving artist path she spoke of. She chose a paycheck. And for what? I’m guessing the pursuit of an apartment, Toyota Camry, gym membership, tickets to the museum, etc. Is this her happiness that she’s pursuing?
By Ricky Bobby
August 29, 2006 02:33 PM | Link to this
If you ain’t first your last.
By 2D
August 29, 2006 02:49 PM | Link to this
Billy… What happened to turning the other cheek??? There is a teaching that noone wants to follow, even you it seems.
Also…
I think you give the evangelical movement far too much credit for setting a national political agenda. Personally, I don’t think they have that much influence. The conservative machine has simply tapped into issues that will bring out group of voters that would have otherwis enot voted, or not voted Republican.
Take homosexuality. Do you think that evangelical Christians are the only ones who oppose legal status for the gay unions??? Heck no!!! I know several secular, atheist, Jewish, etc. folks who came out specifically to vote for the Georgia ammendment. In fact, most of the folks I know who voted against it (like myself) were people who attend a Christian church. They are folks who want folks to have that choice, whether or not they think it is right or moral. Remember, one person doesn’t have to think something is “good” think it all right for someone to have the right to do it.
By NetBanker
August 29, 2006 02:52 PM | Link to this
Hey kids! I’ve only had time for a really quick skim and see that for the most part everyone is playing nicely. I don’t have much time today because I’m trying to play catch up for being out of the office for business, but here’s a few quick thoughts:
Having grown up in the church, the church kids are just as bad, if not worse behaved than the others. ROTM and PKs are the absolute worst! I can certainly tell you that my Sr. Youth Group was quite the partying crowd. I think our parents trusted us MORE just because we were ‘good kids.’
I know that I’m WAAAYYYY late on reading The Davinci Code, but I finally got around to it during my travels last week and my goodness there are some very interesting ideas put forth that are easily believable. I do think it’s interesting (in that hypocritical kind of way) that the conservative Christian churches revere life so much they want to stop all abortions, yet these same groups also subjugate women and keep them from positions of power instead of honoring them as the sources of life. It has very much made me consider the Bible the story of creation. Why would God not have created Man and Woman as equals since both are necessary to create life? Wouldn’t it make sense to have man created FROM woman instead of woman from Adam’s rib when it is women from whom life spring? Or why not have created them as equals since both are necessary? The more one delves into the history of the Christian church and their actions during the first milenium the more one sees a conniving, deceitful, power hungry, unforgiving organization…who preach a message of love. How screwed up is that? Yet as we all know, history is a record of the victors and is cast as they have decided rather than a reflection of the Truth.
How funny would it be to find out that the ‘False Prophets’ this past 2+ millenium have been the Catholic/Christian faith (as well as Islam which grew from them) and that God is truly known by those who honor and praise the entirety of his creation which would be all the pagan religions?
By Scalia
August 29, 2006 03:30 PM | Link to this
I think that everybody has the right to be happy, but I also think that some people choose to be unhappy. They only focus on the negatives in their lives. They actually enjoy being miserable.
As for church, I enjoy it. I like the feeling of fellowship. However, at some churches, they make it their business to tell you that you are going to hell, etc. without focusing on the good things that are around you. The fact that you woke up this morning, that you are able to enjoy the simple things in life like the sun setting or a cool breeze in fall. This is my favorite time of the year. I love when the leaves start changing colors and that the weather in Georgia is absolutely serene.
By Reason
August 29, 2006 03:32 PM | Link to this
Could it be that you think Christians are “a conniving, deceitful, power hungry, unforgiving organization” because Dan Brown told you so? Have you spent as much time reading books that debunk the Davinci Code? Dan Brown himself says, “Everyone loves a conspiracy.” So he wrote a conspiracy to make a buck.
By Mara
August 29, 2006 03:32 PM | Link to this
ROTFLMAO!!! y’all have to pop over to CNN.com. They’re doing a quick poll on who’d win a debate between the presidents. George Dubya against Iran’s Ahmadinejad.
Right now it’s around 38% to 62%…against Bush LOL!
By kimberly
August 29, 2006 03:34 PM | Link to this
NetBanker, you rock! Nicely put.
By Einstein
August 29, 2006 03:38 PM | Link to this
One of the foundations for having any discussion or debate is agreeing on the definitions of the words and concepts being discussed. The problem in speaking of “God” is that everyone has a different definition. Most so-called “Christians” believe in a “superhuman”, grandfatherly, corporal being, who has a controlling hand in our destinies based on whether “He” is pleased with us or not.
By Einstein
August 29, 2006 03:42 PM | Link to this
To me,this sounds just like Roman mythology. The funny part is that the Bible never actually defines “God”, only mentions that “God” is a spirit, which by definition means non-corporal. To me, the problem in trying to discuss “God” with religious zealots is their limited imaginations in insisting that “God” is a being.
By Mara
August 29, 2006 03:49 PM | Link to this
hey Einstein, you forgot “omnipotent” and “omnipresent”
I’m just an average girl,
With just an average life
I work from 9 to 5
Hey well I pay the price!
All I want is to be left alone
In my average home.
But why do I always feel
Like I’m in the twilight zone and…
I always feel like
Sombody’s watchin me
And I have no privacy
Ohhhh
I always feel like
Sombody’s watching me.
Tell me is it just a dream.
Ohhh
I always feel like,
Sombody’s watching me.
Who’s playin’ tricks on me!
By Einstein
August 29, 2006 03:54 PM | Link to this
Scientifically speaking, Renee, you are right to say that the presentation of any message is vital, the content is secondary. The reason for this goes back to the fact that at the deepest levels, we are pack animals. “Friend or foe?” is a critically important question in evaluating any message.
By Einstein
August 29, 2006 03:56 PM | Link to this
P.S Mara, your intelligence is growing with leaps and bounds!All sarcasm aside, I am impressed.
By Bunny
August 29, 2006 04:01 PM | Link to this
Hi, Mara.
By Kevin
August 29, 2006 04:05 PM | Link to this
Netbanker,
It saddens me that you could easily believe the conspiracy theories in the Davinci Code. As Reason pointed out, the book portrays Christians in the worst possible way. However, every major assertion made by Dan Browne has been proven false. The History Channel did a great job of debunking his claims in an episode of “Digging for the Truth”. Despite his claims otherwise, the book is PURE FICTION.
But his book is not at the heart of the problem, nor is it the cause of my sadness. Unfortunately, your opinions and beliefs have probably been formed by knowing far too many Christians who ARE like the characters in this story. Based on their actions, you have every right to think the worst of all of us. For that reason, I am truly sad.
By TramadoL25045
August 29, 2006 04:11 PM | Link to this
Basically nothing seems worth thinking about. I haven’t been up to much these days. I just don’t have much to say right now. I can’t be bothered with anything , but whatever.
By Billy
August 29, 2006 04:19 PM | Link to this
I’m not arguing that The DaVinci Code is not fiction, but why exactly are we sure that Jesus never married?
By Chilao
August 29, 2006 04:20 PM | Link to this
despite his claims otherwise, the book is PURE FICTION.
thank you, and I am certain NetB understood that..
By Chilao
August 29, 2006 04:32 PM | Link to this
despite his claims otherwise, the book is PURE FICTION.
let’s apply some familiar psuedo-logic here, shall we?
The book contains a religion called The Roman Catholic Church, which exists. The book contains a city called Rome, Italy, which exists. The book contains a museum called The Louvre, which exists. The book references a group called OpusDei, which exists.
THEREFORE: EVERYTHING in The DaVinciCode has to be true.
Sound familiar?
By Billy
August 29, 2006 04:35 PM | Link to this
Chilao, I wouldn’t say that it’s pure fiction. I mean after all, for it to be pure fiction, Jesus himself would have to be fictional…
By Jack
August 29, 2006 04:36 PM | Link to this
Hey E. If you’re omnipotent maybe a little viagra is in order. Hahahahah!
By Chilao
August 29, 2006 04:45 PM | Link to this
Chilao, I wouldn’t say that it’s pure fiction. I mean after all, for it to be pure fiction, Jesus himself would have to be fictional…
well I was not going that far with the Pure Fiction agreement. LOL There is a Roman Catholic Church, for example. etc etc etc.
By Jack
August 29, 2006 04:45 PM | Link to this
Turtles from the fridge are way good too. Even better after a good bout of BR aerobics!
By Billy
August 29, 2006 04:49 PM | Link to this
I agree with the logic, Chilao. Does it work in reverse? The book is fiction, therefore everything in the book is fiction?
By Kevin
August 29, 2006 04:52 PM | Link to this
Billy - your right, we cannot be certain Jesus never married.
Chilao - I am sure NetB understands that as well. I was contradicting Dan Browne’s claims about the truthfulness of his book.
Your 4:32 post is great! You got me!
By Billy
August 29, 2006 05:16 PM | Link to this
Well, Kevin, I guess that’s my objection to the “The DaVinci Code is a bunch of lies!” crowd. That book was full of a ton of stuff, and I have no doubt that some, if not most, was fiction. But suppose all except for one thing is fiction — that one thing still bears examination. If Mary Magdalene was not a prostitute, why has the church portrayed her as such?
By TramadoL61307
August 29, 2006 10:31 PM | Link to this
My life’s been basically bland today. More or less nothing seems worth thinking about. My mind is like an empty room. I’ve more or less been doing nothing to speak of. Not much on my mind recently.
By TramadoL98176
August 30, 2006 12:26 AM | Link to this
I just don’t have anything to say. Not that it matters. Eh. I’ve just been staying at home doing nothing, but I don’t care. That’s how it is.
By TramadoL4854
August 30, 2006 03:13 AM | Link to this
I’ve more or less been doing nothing worth mentioning, but eh. My life’s been really bland today. I don’t care. I’ve just been letting everything happen without me these days. That’s how it is.
By Bill
August 30, 2006 05:42 AM | Link to this
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By TramadoL85508
August 30, 2006 06:36 AM | Link to this
Not much on my mind right now, but it’s not important. I’ve just been letting everything happen without me. I just don’t have anything to say right now.
By Mara
August 30, 2006 07:32 AM | Link to this
Hi Bunny. :^)
I did an internet search and couldn’t find one instance where Dan Brown asserts that his book is anything but a fictional novel, though the setting is not. In his own words, “The Da Vinci Code is a novel and therefore a work of fiction. While the book’s characters and their actions are obviously not real, the artwork, architecture, documents, and secret rituals depicted in this novel all exist (for example, Leonardo Da Vinci’s paintings, the Gnostic Gospels, Hieros Gamos, etc.). These real elements are interpreted and debated by fictional characters. While it is my belief that some of the theories discussed by these characters may have merit, each individual reader must explore these characters’ viewpoints and come to his or her own interpretations. My hope in writing this novel was that the story would serve as a catalyst and a springboard for people to discuss the important topics of faith, religion, and history.”
So Kevin, quit saying that Dan Brown claims his novel is factual.
By Kevin
August 30, 2006 07:51 AM | Link to this
Mara,
You beat me to the punch. I went on Dan Brown’s website last night and saw the same information, and I was going to report that fact this morning. If this website statement were in the “fact page” of his book, I wouldn’t have a problem with the book itself. However the fact page does give the reader the impression that the story is true.
Billy - I agree with you as well. There are many churches that falsely assert that Mary Magdalene was a prostitute despite the fact that there is very little, if any, biblical evidence to support that claim. This type of false teaching is very damaging to the credibility of the church.
By Pavlov
August 30, 2006 07:56 AM | Link to this
Watch what happens when I ring my little bell….
By Pavlov's Dog
August 30, 2006 07:59 AM | Link to this
NO, NO Pavlov. When I begin salivating, it is strictly a reasoned response backed up by years of scientific research. I am more than a dog!
By Pavlov
August 30, 2006 08:03 AM | Link to this
Bunny said “hi”, Mara. Also, Bruno wanted you to know that he actually does like you and respects your opinions; it’s your frequent use of mockery that motivated him to razz you.
By TramadoL48839
August 30, 2006 08:09 AM | Link to this
Not much on my mind lately. My life’s been completely boring these days. I’ve just been hanging out not getting anything done. So it goes.
By TramadoL21467
August 30, 2006 08:28 AM | Link to this
I’ve just been staying at home waiting for something to happen, but I don’t care. Basically nothing seems worth thinking about. I can’t be bothered with anything recently.
By Osama
August 30, 2006 08:29 AM | Link to this
Just a quick “Hi” to all my liberal friends here. Keep up the good work.
By Pavlov
August 30, 2006 08:55 AM | Link to this
Special hi to Renee. I thought accusing a good holdem player like yourself of playing too “loose” might get a small rise out of you. ; > ]
By Renee
August 30, 2006 09:10 AM | Link to this
ummm Mara…you know who “Bunny” is right??
By Osama
August 30, 2006 09:11 AM | Link to this
It did scare me a little to see everyone pull together against my friend, Bruno, though. I never saw the left and right wingers speaking so nicely together on W2W before. Great ideas and communication all around. If this keeps up, I’ll really be sunk. Well gotta go, I’ve been neglecting my camel, Fatimah.
By Renee
August 30, 2006 09:12 AM | Link to this
Pavlov/Bunny/God/Bruno - you really need something to occupy your time huh??
By Mara
August 30, 2006 09:24 AM | Link to this
Kevin, I dunno about the fact page giving the impression that the book is factual. I’ve read it twice and at no point did I have trouble differentiating between “novel” and “history book”. Which of the items on the “Facts” page did you find misleading?
I’ve also read Louis L’Amour novels that take place in geographically accurate and historically verifiable settings and never once got confused about whether Barnabas, Tell, Jubal, or Orrin Sackett were a fictional characters.
By Chilao
August 30, 2006 09:32 AM | Link to this
Dan Brown, and this was revealed in his recent trial in London, does a cookie-cutter outline for his books, and the whole outline for The DaVinciCode was done in one afternoon.
By Mara
August 30, 2006 09:34 AM | Link to this
Renee - I didn’t at first and was trying to be welcoming to a new poster. (sigh) I suppose from now on I’ll just have to assume that any new poster is him hiding behind yet another alter-ego.
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August 30, 2006 10:19 AM | Link to this
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Thanks!
By Einstein
August 30, 2006 10:53 AM | Link to this
More props to Mara! By examining her own assumptions, her intelligence has made another quantum leap!
By Pavlov
August 30, 2006 11:02 AM | Link to this
Quoting Renee “I can’t believe I just responded to this!!” ;> ]
By Pavlov
August 30, 2006 11:06 AM | Link to this
Too bad John’s “response”, like chuck, is to run away. Big props to Randy—I can see that you are a warrior, in contrast to chuck and John.
By Renee
August 30, 2006 11:07 AM | Link to this
As much as you say Mara’s intelligence is leaping, your maturity is declining at an alarming rate.
By lozen
August 30, 2006 11:07 AM | Link to this
Yes, Dan Brown never claims The DaVinci Code (or any of his other books are anything but fiction). I loved the book for it’s stirring of ideas. A family member (simple xtian beliefs, less than high school education) called after she read it to ask if I thought it was true. I said “no” of course, but it did raise some interesting questions. She said she believed it was true. Another example of religious education. If you teach kids to believe in fantastical xtian myths at an early age, they will be predisposed to believe any magical story they like from then on. What has really surprised me is how upset a lot of religious got about the book.
By Einstein
August 30, 2006 11:09 AM | Link to this
Nice observation from Chemistry for you, BC: “Under high pressure, we observe critical opalescence.”
By Chilao
August 30, 2006 11:23 AM | Link to this
As people age, they revert to their childhoods…Or so my grandmother told me..>LOL
By Lyrazel
August 30, 2006 11:24 AM | Link to this
What has really surprised me is how upset a lot of religious got about the book.
O come on lozen! Were you REALLY surprised? I mean you live in the state that put stickers to textbooks declaring evolution a theory only. You join in a blog where religious discussions inevitably fall into the most inane conversations that belittle and degrade participants and allies. You live in a state where Harry Potter is considered a testament of the occult forces of corruption—were you really surprised by the hostility and unfounded fears of religious organizations to a book of fiction?
By lozen
August 30, 2006 11:35 AM | Link to this
Lyrazel, good point. I shouldn’t have been surprised. What’s up with you? Are ya happy?
By Jennifer Anniston
August 30, 2006 11:50 AM | Link to this
Ladies, just so you know, Chilao flexes ALL his muscles well (wink, wink).
By Jennifer Anniston
August 30, 2006 11:52 AM | Link to this
But Chilao, honey, how come you never called me again? I gave you my all on that night…
By Lyrazel
August 30, 2006 12:07 PM | Link to this
Happy? Sure am. Hope you are too….I dont comment so much now for all the drivel about religion. Its boring hearing the same narcissistic blowhards expounding on their tedious testaments as if they are higher-ordained to Paste and Place HERE in this trivial blog. The same comments, the same p** contests made by the same fellows for the past few years are incredibly dull and tedious to read…but always a pleasure to say hello to one of the brighter bulbs in this closet of Einsteins’…
By Chilao
August 30, 2006 12:09 PM | Link to this
Jennifer, between all that hair below your neck(I was thinking of you as MonkeyGirl, truth be told), flashbacks to your movie Derailed, and then that way-too-large chest (have you ever thought about reduction surgery?), well, it just wasn’t going to work out for me. LOL
By Toad
August 30, 2006 12:10 PM | Link to this
Hello, all,
I took a dose of Tramadol and was knocked out for two days. Referring to suprises about people’s reactions to books — last night I went to hear a talk by Rebecca Burns, editor of “Atlanta” Magazine, regarding the 1906 Atlanta Race Riots. She said she had gotten hate e-mails about the article about the 1906 riots (an excerpt from her book) in the latest issue of “Atlanta.” I was surprised, but I guess I shouldn’t have been — the Klan seems to be alive and well in our fair city.
By Brad Pitt
August 30, 2006 12:20 PM | Link to this
Word! Chilao
By chuck
August 30, 2006 12:23 PM | Link to this
I didn’t run away, Pavlov. I’m just sitting here quietly on the sidelines trying to learn from other’s opinions. I think a miracle occurred. Now I understand that by quoting Bible verses, I am vainly attempting to co-opt the authority of GOD to support my own manly prejudices.
By chuck
August 30, 2006 12:25 PM | Link to this
So by pretending to let GOD speak for me, the truth is that it is just me pretending to speak for GOD. Lucky GOD gave me that 149 IQ!
By chuck
August 30, 2006 12:26 PM | Link to this
And you ARE my hero, Chilao. I’ve only DREAMED about Jennifer Anniston, and here, all along….
By Jennifer Anniston
August 30, 2006 12:34 PM | Link to this
But, of course, it is really John who is the “Object of My Affection”
By Jennifer Anniston
August 30, 2006 12:39 PM | Link to this
And say what you want about my chest, Chilao, I thought I looked GOOD on that internet topless photo. The lawsuit I brought was just to bring more attention to it.
By Jack
August 30, 2006 12:48 PM | Link to this
I like the red head with big green eyes. Pant, pant!
By Renee
August 30, 2006 12:50 PM | Link to this
OMG - you have taken a whole new meaning to the phrase “not having a life”. Any intelligence that you may have shown on this board, is totally erased and becoming nonexistent, with all this inane, immature posting.
And what is so funny, is you actually have the nerve to continue questioning the intelligence of fellow posters.
By Gilligan
August 30, 2006 12:52 PM | Link to this
But, hey, let’s get down to the real issues. Ginger or Maryann? Diane or Shaunti? Mara or Renee? Let’s hear some votes guys.
By Gilligan
August 30, 2006 12:55 PM | Link to this
John or Trog? I’m going with John, cuz’ he’s so darn CUTE when he gets mad.
By Brian Curtis
August 30, 2006 12:55 PM | Link to this
Does the DaVinci Code have some relevance to the “pursuit of happiness” topic? Of course, it’s not too fruitful an area to begin with, so I’m not surprised at the wandering this week.
By Jennifer Anniston
August 30, 2006 12:57 PM | Link to this
Don’t hate me because I’m hairy!
By Gilligan
August 30, 2006 12:59 PM | Link to this
Now I know Shaunti took a lot of heat from the “sensitive liberals” for her appearance following her pregnancy, but I personally think she’s quite the fox.
By Jack
August 30, 2006 01:00 PM | Link to this
Mara and Renee’ for sure! But the one I would like to be stuck on a deserted island with knows who she is. :)
By Gilligan
August 30, 2006 01:03 PM | Link to this
Now come, come, Renee, did someone leak it to you that I was going with Mara?
By Gilligan
August 30, 2006 01:05 PM | Link to this
Here’s my most serious joke, Renee: Q: Why can’t warlocks have children? A: Halloweenie.
By Gilligan
August 30, 2006 01:06 PM | Link to this
So next time, be careful about calling Bruno immature, he just loves a challenge ; > ]
By Gilligan
August 30, 2006 01:08 PM | Link to this
Jack, you have to choose between each of the girls within each pair. Even I know that ; > ]
By Mara
August 30, 2006 01:12 PM | Link to this
Renee - I’m with you. This inane drivel is pretty damn annoying.
Brian - we disposed of the happiness “topic” within the first couple hours on Monday. And now the forum has been hijacked by you-know-who (with all his other “personalities”) who’s best argument has been personal attacks instead of cogent arguments. Heck, the other day I was even feeling bad for chuck, if you can believe it!
By Pavlov
August 30, 2006 01:12 PM | Link to this
I requote “I can’t believe I responded to this!!”—Renee.
By Chilao
August 30, 2006 01:15 PM | Link to this
Renee - well, you know how many conservatives like to dumb everything down.
By Pavlov
August 30, 2006 01:15 PM | Link to this
But I can’t be hard on you, Renee, because at least YOU have the insight and honesty to admit that you do judge the message by the messenger. I’ll ask Einstein to keep trying to explain that to John and BC.
By Toad
August 30, 2006 01:19 PM | Link to this
Any of you who were educated in Georgia — were you taught about the 1906 riots? If so, what was taught?
By Osama
August 30, 2006 01:19 PM | Link to this
Ah ha! A couple of small nukes, and BAM, all the W2W bloggers run for cover. Although, to hear Mara feeling empathy for chuck, well THAT scares me.
By NetBanker
August 30, 2006 01:21 PM | Link to this
I couldn’t help but laugh at Reason’s thinking that Dan Brown’s work of fiction was the sole cause of me stating that the Catholic/Christian church is “a conniving, deceitful, power hungry, unforgiving organization.” I don’t suppose the introduction of confession of sins to a priest in order to obtain damning information that could be used to the church’s advantage, selling of indulgences, the Crusades, the Spanish Inquisition, the witch hunts which claimed the lives of millions of wise women and healers, the practice of burning people at the stake (hmmm…not a course of action that would ever come to mind if asked WWJD), the suppression and persecution of scientists whose findings didn’t support Church doctrine, the protecting of pedophile priests, or being the wealthiest, private organization in the entire world could have shaped my statement. Oh no…all those little inconvenient facts couldn’t possibly have influenced my opinion of organized religion. It must have come from a book about the lineage of Jesus being continued through his marriage to Mary.
As Lozen put it, the book was a great stirring of ideas and got me to thinking about the role of the church in our history. It is definitely a mixture of fact and fiction as well as some interesting thoughts. For example, it IS true that in the time of Jesus for a man to be 33, unmarried, and without children would have been extremely unusual and yet the Gospels make no mention of it and little to none about his earthly family. The lack of explanation, as the author points out, is kind of strange given that people of that era would certainly have questioned why this was so. That the Church itself is completely patriarchal and male dominated as opposed to the pagan religions which contain male/female equivalents as well as reverence for Mother Earth is not really something I gave much consideration until reading the book. What was the role of the church in the destruction of those religions even as the church adopted/co-opted their holidays and rituals? How has the removal of the female as equal from religion shaped our history and politics given the use of the Bible and Christianity as justification for various horrible acts throughout the ages? Discussions on the uses of symbols was also interesting in the book. How did we get to an image of Satan as being red-skinned and horned when he is, but a fallen angel? Falling from grace resulted in him undergoing a physical transformation into a being that is ugly and frightening? What symbols beyond the pentagram have had their meanings altered to denote evil?
By Jack
August 30, 2006 01:21 PM | Link to this
Can’t do it. I’m sure both Renee’ and Mara are both beautiful and talented.
By Osama
August 30, 2006 01:22 PM | Link to this
But John will be happy to know, my next target is the Wooten blog. Because when push comes to shove, it is REAL WARRIORS like Randy who I actually fear, those who do PUT THEIR MONEY WHERE THEIR MOUTH IS.
By Chilao
August 30, 2006 01:26 PM | Link to this
It is so dishonourable to post under another person’s name.
Let me guess, it is required for The War on Terror?
By Chilao
August 30, 2006 01:27 PM | Link to this
meaning bloggers, like Chuck’s name when it is not Chuck.
By Jack
August 30, 2006 01:29 PM | Link to this
“Now come, come, Renee, did someone leak it to you that I was going with Mara?”
Mara’s standards are way higher. Dream on.
By Jesus
August 30, 2006 01:32 PM | Link to this
You see, as a WARRIOR, Randy understands the meaning of the word “sacrifice”, so it awes him to think what I did for him. Those who aren’t REAL WARRIORS can’t understand this the way Randy does.
By Toad
August 30, 2006 01:34 PM | Link to this
What symbols beyond the pentagram have had their meanings altered to denote evil?
The Swatsika, sacred to some American Indian tribes and to Hindu’s, has been ruined by its use by the Nazis. Sometimes I see old Indian jewelry with swastika designs but I would never buy it because of its newer connotations.
By GOD
August 30, 2006 01:36 PM | Link to this
So, I do apologize for lumping together Chuck and Randy. Randy’s work with youth sports is commendable, and it is likely that he has spent more hours doing my work than any three Libs put together. I actually agree with him more than 90% of the time.
By Chilao
August 30, 2006 01:38 PM | Link to this
LOL @ Jack. Seems Pavlov’s Dog(the best name yet, and I think I’ll stick with that) has not been reading the blog that long after all.
By GOD
August 30, 2006 01:38 PM | Link to this
Don’t feel too sorry for Chuck, though, for having his name co-opted. It IS low, quite the dirty trick. But consider, what has he been doing with MY name all these years?
By lozen
August 30, 2006 01:40 PM | Link to this
Toad, not a word about the 1906 riot in school. I didn’t know about it until four or five years ago when I took a tour with Atl. Preservation Center on Auburn Avenue. Although I love history I sometimes wonder really what good it is when it is so inaccurate. Thanks Lyrazel; I understand fully.
By Toad
August 30, 2006 01:47 PM | Link to this
Netbanker, your intelligent and insightful comments about The Davinci Code were a burst of sunlight in the midst of all the pubescent postings of the last hour. I don’t usually read “action” type books but some of my co-workers were passing around The Code so I read it. I, too, enjoyed the theories and learning more about the sacred feminine. I like a book that encourages me to pursue other books to learn more — like about the gnostics.
By Billy
August 30, 2006 01:49 PM | Link to this
NetB — You left out “prohibiting priest from marrying, because priests who are not married cannot have children (legitimate ones, at least) which means that any personal property they own goes to the church.
By Billy
August 30, 2006 01:49 PM | Link to this
“
(forgot to close my quotes from the previous post)
By lozen
August 30, 2006 01:51 PM | Link to this
Netbanker, you are here! Glad you are… always. And now the richest organization in the world can’t afford to take care of the nuns who have given their lives to teaching children, comforting the sick, etc. Ha! Moving all those pedophile priests from one place to another, sending them to private, exclusive treatment centers, and paying for their lawsuits cost a lot of money ya know! Not to mention supporting the anti-abortion movement…
By Toad
August 30, 2006 01:51 PM | Link to this
Lozen, have you read Howard Zinn’s book, The People’s History of the U.S.? Although the writing is dry, it shows aspects of our country’s history that isn’t taught in school — like how many rebellions there have been by farmers and workers starting even before Revolution.
By Jesus
August 30, 2006 01:56 PM | Link to this
And cheers to my best friends here, 2D and Kevin. My deepest message is one of humility, so I appreciate you guys leading by example.
By Jesus
August 30, 2006 02:00 PM | Link to this
Last comment for today (That should make even the atheists say “Thank GOD”). You guys looking for clues about me are wasting your time reading the DaVinci Code. It’s an even bigger piece of fiction than Michael Moore’s “Farenheit 9/11”.
By Ray Bradbury
August 30, 2006 02:02 PM | Link to this
And, further”Moore”, the guy couldn’t even come up with an original title. Talk about plagiarism….
By Toad
August 30, 2006 02:07 PM | Link to this
This is a REAL quote from Ray Bradbury: “There are worse things than burning books. One is not reading them.”
By Mara
August 30, 2006 02:08 PM | Link to this
Net - if I recall correctly, “The Devil” was originally described as a red dragon with seven heads. Where did the horns, tail, and other goat-like appendages come from? Most likely from the Greek god Pan. You know how the early (and not so early) christians felt about partying and sex. Obviously the god OF partying and sex had to be the Great Enemy in different guise. That’s my theory anyway.
By lozen
August 30, 2006 02:10 PM | Link to this
Funny thing is at one time I was attracted to the catholic church. I went to catholic school, although my family was not catholic, for one year and loved the beauty of the church, the smells, candles,statues, ritual, mystery, etc. So I flirted with the idea of converting (had a good friend who did) in my 30’s. I always disliked the patriarchical bull, the authoritarian bull, the rigidity, but loved the buildings and the ritual. Then I attended my first pagan gathering and saw where the catholic church co-opted every iota of what was appealing to me. That was the end of my attraction. I do think protestants threw the proverbial baby out with the bath water.
By lozen
August 30, 2006 02:19 PM | Link to this
Toad, I read parts of the book during the past year. Quite enlightening but, as you say, dry and difficult.
By lozen
August 30, 2006 02:38 PM | Link to this
Mara, I love Pan and Bacchus. Found a great little statue of Pan recently for the garden! And Net back to this: “What symbols beyond the pentagram have had their meanings altered to denote evil?” How about the snake, that to the pagans symbolized wisdom and rebirth but was turned into the devil in the garden of eden by the Hebrews? And you mentioned turning the life giver, the female who brings life into the world, into the terrible evil-doer who brought sin into the world thru her disobedience. What about making sex, under any but one circumstance (marriage in the church), evil and a sin? You touched on some of that but it is HUGE. The church had to stamp out any pleasure and happiness (hey, we’re on topic!), esp. pleasures of the body, to lure people under it’s authority. The ones who held out were then murdered, burned, and tortured in Europe during the witch craze. The native americans lost eyes, hands, feet when they refused to stop their joyful dancing for the spirit. The big symbol for the church is a dying, suffering man on a cross! What does that do to the collective psyche of humanity?
By Lyrazel
August 30, 2006 02:44 PM | Link to this
Netbanger how much of man’s inhumanity can be explained either in history or as fiction?
Saints are usually killed by their own people, Eric Severeid
By Mara
August 30, 2006 03:00 PM | Link to this
lozen - what’s the chances, do you suppose, that the church “demonized” magic not because it was inherently evil, but because the pagan priest/esses could do it and the christian ones couldn’t? LOL! And all those people claiming the Bible is the unadulterated “Word od God” and yet do not accepting even the possibility that once there be dragons….
By Brian Curtis
August 30, 2006 03:00 PM | Link to this
Zinn’s book is also more than a little depressing. From the Reconstruction era forward, the theme gets repeated:
Workers rise up to protest poor treatment; government and business conspire to break their will. Workers go back on the job with little to nothing gained. Repeat.
Kind of a nice reminder, though, of how much the plutocrats truly fear the working class—enough to raise hysterical cries of “Communism! The free market’s at stake! *Kill them all!”
By Chunky Monkey
August 30, 2006 03:25 PM | Link to this
Workers only rebel for lack of ice cream.
By Jack
August 30, 2006 03:36 PM | Link to this
Speaking of plutocrats, how much money is it going to cost to change everything from Pluto being a planet to Pluto not being a planet?
By Renee
August 30, 2006 03:42 PM | Link to this
that’s a very interesting take on it Mara….more admiration to come!!
By lozen
August 30, 2006 03:47 PM | Link to this
Mara, I know this wonderful true story about a woman in decatur who had a dragon, lost it, found it and removed it from the home of another woman who really felt the difference! It’s a great story and was told to me by a friend as absolute truth (which it may be ;-)) Brian, who said, “Religion is the only thing that keeps the poor from murdering the rich.”
By Mara
August 30, 2006 03:59 PM | Link to this
Thanks, Renee. Always trying to look at a situation in a new way. You see things from such interesting angles…
consider this. The Bible is chock full of magic, Talking donkeys, voices coming out of flames, fires that do not burn, necromancy, and transmutation and more. And that’s just the “good” magic of God, the Messiah, and assorted cronies of theirs. One has to wonder, given the sheer amount of magic in the Bible, why it became anathema. My theory is that the core group of desciples and the like may have been given power by their god but the average priest wasn’t so blessed. The pagan clergy, being much closer to the natural world (and Nature’s God) were able to access their gods power. Now, in order to replace the old traditional gods with the Big 3, the christian priests had to find some way to counter the power of the pagans. How? Simply by declairing that these powers HAD to be from Satan, since God did not give the same kind of power to those so obviously pious and holy, i.e. his priests.
It’s an interesting thing to think about, sitting out on the deck in the porchswing looking at the stars and sipping a nice Chardonney. Which is what I think I’ll do tonight :^) See y’all tomorrow.
By Jack
August 30, 2006 05:20 PM | Link to this
Lions and tigers and bears. Oh My!
By TramadoL55358
August 30, 2006 09:19 PM | Link to this
I feel like an empty room, but eh. Nothing seems worth doing. I haven’t gotten much done today.
By TramadoL82372
August 31, 2006 03:28 AM | Link to this
I haven’t been up to anything recently, but so it goes. Such is life. What can I say? Pretty much not much exciting going on to speak of. I haven’t gotten much done lately, but I don’t care.
By TramadoL16267
August 31, 2006 05:01 AM | Link to this
Basically nothing noteworthy happening right now, but eh. Today was a complete loss. I haven’t been up to much recently. I’ve pretty much been doing nothing worth mentioning.
By TramadoL69371
August 31, 2006 07:45 AM | Link to this
Not much on my mind right now, but it’s not important. I’ve just been letting everything happen without me. I just don’t have anything to say right now.
By Jack
August 31, 2006 10:28 AM | Link to this
JULIA. If you’re reading this, we miss ya! (I do anyway)
By Mara
August 31, 2006 10:30 AM | Link to this
is the forum broken today? It’s after 10 and no new posts. Hmmmm. Or maybe everyone quit in disgust over the lame topics or the frequency and number of annoying troll posts…
I’ll check back later.
By Chilao
August 31, 2006 10:52 AM | Link to this
Mara - yawn/snore is more like it. LOL
By Brian Curtis
August 31, 2006 11:18 AM | Link to this
I think the new breed of troll we’ve picked up—the pseudo-intellectual—has everyone so disgusted they’ve backed off.
By Scalia
August 31, 2006 11:40 AM | Link to this
Yeah, I miss the crew. You guys and gals entertain me on my lunch break, before work, and after school.
Speaking of after school, where is RF? And how are the boys doing? How is school going?
By Bruno, New Head Troll
August 31, 2006 11:53 AM | Link to this
As a demonstration of my “good intentions”, I will make a few last points, then slip back into the netherworld, never to bother the good folks on W2W again. I am a nihilist, for sure, but it is for valid, epistemological reasons. Epistomology, for anyone who doesn’t know, focuses on the validity and limitations of knowledge.
By Bruno, New Head Troll
August 31, 2006 12:00 PM | Link to this
What scares the Libs about Dubya is the fact that he seems so certain about his positions (although he does receive his info directly from GOD ; > ] ). What scares the Libs about the fundamentalists is the certainty of their positions, especially when the Bible itself discourages such certainty. What scares me ( a scientist) about the Big Bangers/Evolutionists like BC again is the certainty of their positions in the face of obvious scientific evidence to the contrary.
By Renee
August 31, 2006 12:06 PM | Link to this
never to bother the good folks on W2W again.
Could it be, could it really be….there is a light at the end of the tunnel (blog)
By Bruno, New Head Troll
August 31, 2006 12:08 PM | Link to this
As many of you have found, trying to debate these folks in a factual way is maddening, because they don’t use facts as the basis for their positions, as do none of us.
By Bruno, New Head Troll
August 31, 2006 12:12 PM | Link to this
As I originally postulated, humans are far ahead of other animals intellectually, but not emotionally. Any honest analysis of any religious, scientific, or political position shows that we start from our prechosen assumptions, then look for facts to support those prejudices.
By Bruno, New Head Troll
August 31, 2006 12:14 PM | Link to this
BC, if you will bother to go to the AMS website (ams.org), you can find “logical proof” of this, since apparently my credentials haven’t impressed you. Please, one day after I quit harassing you, check out “Life Itself” by Robert Rozen. It’s available at Amazon.com.
By Bruno, New Head Troll
August 31, 2006 12:18 PM | Link to this
The point is, the answer to our political problems lies more in the emotionsl plane than the factual plane. As one poster postulated, it really is FEAR that drives us in so many ways. After many years as a health care professional, I agree. One of my favorite artists, Peter Gabriel, even wrote a song about that. It’s called “The Mother of Violence”.
By Bruno, New Head Troll
August 31, 2006 12:20 PM | Link to this
Oops, Robert Rosen, s not z.
By Bruno, New Head Troll
August 31, 2006 12:23 PM | Link to this
So, while nihilism isn’t pretty, I believe it is necessary to blow down the intellectual “houses of cards” constructed by arrogant self-titled Scientists as well as the theological “houses of cards” constructed by buffoons like chuck.
By Bruno, New Head Troll
August 31, 2006 12:40 PM | Link to this
So I bid adieu. Last few personal comments and compliments: “Under high pressure, we observe critical opalescence”. Kind of funny how the two biggest blowhards, chuck and John, both ran away. At least Randy hung in there.
Compliments: None of you may wish to associate yourselves with anything positive the Head Troll has to say, but here goes. Chilao, you rock. You’ve got some real ones there, guy. Renee, you are a very sharp cookie. I would fear you in a holdem game. Mara, I think there’s hope for you. And finally, my highest respect for 2D and Kevin. You guys seem to be the most “balanced” in understanding that both Science and Religion have something of value to offer, and that we can’t know the mind of GOD, although it is fun to get glimpses here and there.
By Billy
August 31, 2006 12:40 PM | Link to this
By Bruno, New Head Troll *August 31, 2006 12:00 PM * …What scares me ( a scientist)
By Bruno, New Head Troll August 31, 2006 12:23 PM …by arrogant self-titled Scientists…
By Pavlov's Dog
August 31, 2006 12:41 PM | Link to this
Hmmm, there goes that little bell again. Just what does that thing really mean?
By Mara
August 31, 2006 12:42 PM | Link to this
Renee - no such luck. Even if Bruno the Troll leaves, I’m sure we’ll hear from Bunny/Einstein/God…
Chilao and Brian C. - you’re probably both right. Posting ever two minutes or so, the psuedo-intellectual drones on ad nauseam about nothing. It bores me and exhausts my limited intellect.
zzzzzzzzzzzzz…..
By Harvey Mudd College
August 31, 2006 01:00 PM | Link to this
Billy, you and BC are right, Bruno doesn’t know much about Science. That’s a shame, since he was one of our best students. In case you haven’t heard of us, we’re the Little Guys who keep blowing away the Big Boys like Stanford, Caltech, and MIT in international computing and mathematics competitions. You can read more at www.hmc.edu. Go to About Us, then Quick Facts for the details. Or of course, you can always read about us in the US News and World Report ( #1 engineering, #14 best liberal arts, with only 700 students), Princeton Review, etc. As a matter of fact, the AMS selected us as their first inductee into their new College Hall of Fame. But, we don’t like to brag, we’re too busy…
By Chilao
August 31, 2006 01:18 PM | Link to this
Been awhile since Psycho101 class, on Pavlov’s dog, what happened there when the bell went off? Was it food or voltage the dog got? LMAO
By NetBanker
August 31, 2006 01:29 PM | Link to this
So glad to see that I’m not really missing anything today. Just a few commentsw while I’m gnoshing on my lunch at my desk…
Lozen…I understand the attraction to the Catholic Church for the very reasons you stated. I attended mass regularly when I lived in France and the experience is even more mystical/magical when you are in these ancient churches and cathedrals than in a modern church. It’s hard to describe the experience of attending High Mass at Notre Dame de Paris, but it is amazing.
Jesus is being a tad presumptuous about anyone looking for clues about him in the book…especially since the only reference about him is the lack of explanation for why he ignored cultural mores by not marrying (or so we assume although there is no clear indication one way or another).
Mara…as usual some very good and interesting points. I’m not sure I agree that the early christians had issues with sex. I’ll have to look into that at some point, but I don’t think that happened or was formalized until significantly later…as in post Counsel of Nicaea. There is plenty of history about married priests, even married Popes, and references to children of leaders of the church through the Renaissance period. I’m not entirely sure when the priestly celibacy concept was introduced or the restriction on marriage. Marriage isn’t clearly defined in the Bible in terms of a “until death do us part” agreement anywhere of which I am aware. Look at all the references to polygamy in the Old Testament. Then again at the rate people died back then ‘until death do us part’ was no where near as long as it is today….probably one of the real drivers behind divorce rates today. (Off topic a tad…does anyone know if divorce rates have risen along with life expectancy?
BTW…I never really thought about ‘miracles’ being the same thing as magic.
By Sannyong
August 31, 2006 02:09 PM | Link to this
Hey Online Affiliahte Program,
hoop
By Mara
August 31, 2006 02:35 PM | Link to this
Net, I suppose I should’ve said “the young church” instead of “early christians” but it was almost quittin’ time and I got into a rush.
And perhaps it wasn’t just the christian church, but somewhere, somehow, sex without the blessings of a priest became “immoral” and “sinful”. Since many of the festivals and rites of the pagans included physical celebrations, one could conclude that the stigma didn’t come from that direction. The purpose of the church itself was conversion, so they’d have to find a way to differentiate their rites from the ones they hijacked from their theological rivals. Elevating sex from a natural celebration of renewal that anyone could participate in to something that you only did with the blessings of a priest (i.e. got married) pretty much fit the bill. Or so it seems to me…
as for the other…what’s the difference between a “miracle” and “magic”? Both are merely the unexplainable effects of the supernatural on the natural world
By Carnegie Mellon University
August 31, 2006 02:44 PM | Link to this
Harvey Mudd, you don’t need to tell Billy about yourself. He’s well aware of you. You sent him info packets during his junior year in high school. We did too, as did a host of other colleges and universities. As it turned out, he stayed close to home and went to Georgia Tech. While that school might not come close to to the level at which you esteem yourself, we have had dealings with the school in the past and can assure you that anyone who gets into the school, apart from athletes, is by no means mentally deficient.
As for Bruno, if he’s one of your best, you might want to keep that to yourself. Most universities should be able to educate their students to answer simple questions — When you mix red paint and blue paint, what color do you get? “Purple.” — with simple answers instead of constructing soporific essays detailing the mechanics of light reflection and the color spectrum. Likewise, your students, especially the top ones, should be able to separate the topic at hand from whatever useless knowledge they possess. The herding methods of nomadic Mongolians of the 1300s is in no way relevant to the preseason meeting between the Falcons and the Patriots. Nor is Heisenberg’s Uncertainty Principle relevant to a discussion regarding American politics. Any high school graduate should know this, much less a college graduate, not to mention a top student from such a prestigious institution.
Lastly, you might consider, for your next alumni newsletter, including a paragraph or two regarding the fact that an intelligent argument consists of more than the random insertion of the names of scientific and mathematical theories, jargon, and technobabble, all of which can be gleaned from watching ten hours of SciFi, and allusions to various philosophical schools of thought that can be taken from the bold-type chapter headings in any introductory philosophy textbook.
By Billy
August 31, 2006 03:07 PM | Link to this
Thanks, Carnegie Mellon. No hard feelings about my school choice?
By NetBanker
August 31, 2006 03:26 PM | Link to this
I’m going to church this Sunday. This whole thing about having my sins forgiven sounds pretty good.
By Bruno
August 31, 2006 03:29 PM | Link to this
You’re right NetBanker, I want to know for sure that I’m going to Heaven myself.
By Mara
August 31, 2006 03:31 PM | Link to this
I don’t know about you guys, but the democratic party is not doing it for me. I’ve decided to begin voting Republican across the board from now on. Go GOP!
By the one & only Mara
August 31, 2006 03:49 PM | Link to this
I’d respond to the lying, moniker-theiving bastard but that’d be more of my attention than I’m willing to cede him.
By Chilao
August 31, 2006 04:08 PM | Link to this
I’d respond to the lying, moniker-theiving bastard but that’d be more of my attention than I’m willing to cede him.
don’t worry Mara, anyone with even 1/2 a brain knew that was not you.
By TramadoL78658
August 31, 2006 04:20 PM | Link to this
I feel like a complete blank, but I don’t care. Pfft. I’ve pretty much been doing nothing worth mentioning.
By NetBanker
August 31, 2006 04:43 PM | Link to this
The purpose of the church itself was conversion, so they’d have to find a way to differentiate their rites from the ones they hijacked from their theological rivals. Elevating sex from a natural celebration of renewal that anyone could participate in to something that you only did with the blessings of a priest (i.e. got married) pretty much fit the bill. Or so it seems to me… Very good point. Isn’t this also the reason that Mass was said in Latin? It added to the mystical and most people were illiterate or at least illiterate in Latin.
By Bruno
August 31, 2006 04:48 PM | Link to this
FYI—my last post was at 1:00. Some other troll co-opted your name Mara, as well as mine after that. The only name I co-opted was chuck’s, but he deserved it.
By Bruno
August 31, 2006 04:49 PM | Link to this
I broke my vow of not posting to let you know that, Mara. Maybe it’s chuck trying to get revenge, what do you think?
By NetBanker
August 31, 2006 04:51 PM | Link to this
I’m going to church this Sunday. This whole thing about having my sins forgiven sounds pretty good.
BAAAHAHAHAHAHA!! Thanks for the laugh!
By Bruno
August 31, 2006 04:57 PM | Link to this
Remember also, Billy, my comment about degrees and schooling not being that important in and of themselves. Both GA Tech and Carnegie-Mellon are terrific schools. Some of my best friends from Mudd went to C-M for graduate work. I brought out credentials primarily for BC. As for what makes a successful person, EQ is more important than IQ. Some of the most successful people I know barely graduated from High School.
By Bruno
August 31, 2006 04:58 PM | Link to this
I don’t need any fake Brunos to ruin my reputation, I believe I’m doing a fine job on my own.
By Billy
August 31, 2006 04:59 PM | Link to this
Isn’t this also the reason that Mass was said in Latin? It added to the mystical and most people were illiterate or at least illiterate in Latin.
Maybe so. I think it’s largely that you don’t want your minions educated. If the populace couldn’t read or speak Latin, they had to accept the Church’s word on the Bible. It’s similar to part of why slaveowners wanted slaves kept illiterate — If a slave can read, he can read all of the Bible. That means that in addition to the “Slaves, obey your masters” line that hus master might like to quote, he can also read about Moses leading his people out of slavery. Which is not something a slaveowner wants his slaves to think about.
By Billy
August 31, 2006 05:16 PM | Link to this
Bruno, you mentioned me by name. Plus, you’re preaching to the choir. You’re living proof that degrees mean little. Not only can you not stay on topic, but you cannot even acknowledge that simple fact.
By TramadoL74690
August 31, 2006 08:40 PM | Link to this
I feel like an empty room, but eh. Nothing seems worth doing. I haven’t gotten much done today.
By TramadoL27548
August 31, 2006 08:42 PM | Link to this
I can’t be bothered with anything these days, but shrug. I just don’t have anything to say recently. I haven’t gotten much done recently. Nothing seems worth thinking about.
By TramadoL90789
August 31, 2006 10:07 PM | Link to this
I’ve just been staying at home waiting for something to happen. Whatever. Not much on my mind lately. I guess it doesn’t bother me.
By TramadoL14451
August 31, 2006 10:08 PM | Link to this
I just don’t have anything to say right now. I haven’t been up to anything recently, but it’s not important. I’ve just been sitting around waiting for something to happen, but shrug.
By Sara
September 1, 2006 05:47 AM | Link to this
Hey Danger Of Cosmetic Surgery, Bo6 Card Credit Pep,
hoop
By Bruno
September 1, 2006 07:48 AM | Link to this
A few quick words from the original Bruno before the impotent fake Bruno takes over again.
By Bruno
September 1, 2006 07:53 AM | Link to this
Mara, sorry again this new, lesser troll stole your name. Obviously he lacks originality, and isn’t a real man. It started with a fake “Jennifer Anniston” at 12:57 the other day. For this and other reasons, I suspect the “new Bruno” is Jack. Of course, only the AJC board operator knows for sure.
By Bruno
September 1, 2006 07:56 AM | Link to this
Billy, glad to hear you GT guys know how to mix paint colors. For something a little harder, can you explain here for the folks why mixing light produces different results from mixing paint?
By Bruno
September 1, 2006 07:58 AM | Link to this
I know, that’s too boring, and would involve explanations involving the properties of light, probably way too hard for you GT boys.
By Bruno
September 1, 2006 07:59 AM | Link to this
Maybe you should have applied to Mudd, Billy—you might have gotten a real education instead of the fake one you got at GT.
By Bruno
September 1, 2006 08:03 AM | Link to this
You see, at Mudd, most of the tests are open-book exams. That means you’re never tested on memorization, but strictly on your ability to THINK. Whenever a Mudd student uses a formula, he/she must first list all the assumptions which go into using that formula, or the student gets NO CREDIT AT ALL. You see, simply plugging in variables into equations isn’t real thinking, Billy.
By Bruno
September 1, 2006 08:08 AM | Link to this
As for the “deeper connections” between Math, Science, Philosophy, Religion, and Politics, sorry again to bore you and the good folks here at W2W. For me, these connections ARE interesting, because they reveal the mind of GOD. In addition, seeing the “big picture” of life also provides a solid moral basis for deciding upon such diverse topics as abortion, genetically altered foods, and cruel medical experimentation upon animals
By Bruno
September 1, 2006 08:12 AM | Link to this
You see, it’s dumbfounding to me how “compassionate” liberals can support wholesale abortion with no moral stigma attached. Similarly, how “smart” scientists can’t understand that genetically altered foods are an abomination to GOD and are harmful is beyond me. And we better not get started on cruel medical “experiments” done on animals like primates and bunny rabbits. The researchers really like bunny rabbits because they don’t scream as much as the primates when in pain.
By Bruno
September 1, 2006 08:13 AM | Link to this
So call me what you like, but I believe there are important issues facing mankind right now. Unfortunately, the Democrats have gotten everyone so polarized, no one is talking right now.
By Bruno
September 1, 2006 08:15 AM | Link to this
If you want to know when the Dems sarted dividing, look back to the Depression. Even thought Hoover had the country moving in the right direction, the Dems weren’t happy and made a power play by offering welfare to able-bodied people.
By Bruno
September 1, 2006 08:17 AM | Link to this
Welfare for able-bodied people was a good trick, and kept the Dems in power for a long time. Fortunately, Newt Gingrich ended a lot of that with the Contract for America. Notice how Bill Clinton still continues to take credit for welfare reform when it was all Newt’s ideas.
By Bruno
September 1, 2006 08:20 AM | Link to this
The real divide started in my lifetime with Nixon, then Reagan. For example, before Reagan was elected, I received a mailer predicting the end of life as we knew it if he was elected—nuclear wars, a ruined environment, etc. As a Carter supporter, I wondered, then watched.
By Bruno
September 1, 2006 08:24 AM | Link to this
But, to my somewhat surprise, Reagan turned out to be the greatest President of our lifetime. Not only did he defeat Communism once and for all, he made you proud to be an American again, a feeling that was lost during the Carter years. I know, you Libs like to look down upon people who are proud to be American, but I will always be proud to come from the greatest country on the planet.
By Bruno
September 1, 2006 08:30 AM | Link to this
For my on-topic remark about happiness, I will again direct everyone to “Zen Mind, Beginner’s Mind” for a full discussion of the “Big Mind” vs. the “Small Mind” theory of human happiness by the master of all knowledge, Shunryu Suzuki. Interestingly enough, the Bible gives the same advice on happiness when it urges humans to be “Christ-like”. The Quran gives the same advice when it urges Muslims to “submit” to GOD’s Will. “Big Mind”, “Christ”, and “Allah” are all synonymous word to me.
By Bruno
September 1, 2006 08:32 AM | Link to this
But sorry, Billy (and John), for making these “soporific” connections between Buddhism, Christianity, and Islam. Lord knows we’re all better off to keep these types of knowledge separate, lest anyone gets confused and stop hating based on ignorance.
By Bruno
September 1, 2006 08:35 AM | Link to this
The best observation I ever heard about the American Educational System was from a South American woman who noted that her daughter’s education in Uruguay was far more integrated than here in tthe US. That is to say, all the subjects here are presented in a fragmented, disjointed way.
By Bruno
September 1, 2006 08:38 AM | Link to this
To me, that’s why “smart” people like Billy, BC, and John can’t handle cross-disciplinary discussions at all.
By Bruno
September 1, 2006 08:41 AM | Link to this
They’re only too happy to go to their graves remembering that Evolutionists claim that the Earth is growing increasingly more complex, while at the very same time, physicists teach us that everything is falling apart. As far as comparing the core ideas of these disparate observations—No way, I’m too busy watching reruns of “Friends”.
By Bruno
September 1, 2006 08:47 AM | Link to this
So that Mara will know which troll to hate, I will definitely bid adieu as Bruno. Any further Bruno posts will be a “new Bruno”, likely Jack, as I stated. So, in closing:
(1) Please check out “Life Itself” by biologist Rober Rosen. It is available at amazon.com. At the minimum, read the customer reviews if you don’t want to take my word for it. This is the most important work of REAL SCIENCE since Einstein, but the scientific community keeps ignoring it.
(2) Most importantly, especially you, John, if you want to persuade others to your point of view, DON’T BE A BRUNO.
By Bunny
September 1, 2006 08:51 AM | Link to this
And really, Bruno’s not so bad in real life. Besides loving bunnies, he has helped well over 100,000 patients in his career. John would like him even more if he knew that Bruno made house calls for AIDS patients who were to sick to come for treatment. But, please ignore that, and remember, DON’T BE A BRUNO.
By The Pope
September 1, 2006 08:53 AM | Link to this
Don’t waste your time going to church this weekend, NetBanker, I can sell you a few indulgences instead. ;> ] .
By The Pope
September 1, 2006 08:56 AM | Link to this
My Friday funny: Moses came down from the mountain and told the assembled crowd “I’ve got good news and bad news”. “The good news is that I got the Big Guy down to just ten Commandments.” “The bad news is that adultery is still in there.”
By The Pope
September 1, 2006 08:57 AM | Link to this
Overheard from a woman following Moses around the desert for 40 years: “Will somebody convince this guy to pull over and ASK DIRECTIONS!”
By Bunny
September 1, 2006 09:12 AM | Link to this
Here’s my Friday funny: I asked my cosmetics researcher the other day why he keeps rubbing lipstick in my eyes. I can’t scream, of course, but I do whimper and cower when he does that. His answer: It doesn’t matter how much I torture you, because there really is no GOD. And furthermore, I’m too busy watching reruns of “Friends” to think about it.
Pretty funny, eh?
By Chilao
September 1, 2006 09:24 AM | Link to this
A wealthy old lady decides to go on a photo safari in Africa , taking her faithful aged poodle named Cuddles, along for the company.
One day the poodle starts chasing butterflies and before long, Cuddles discovers that he’s lost. Wandering about, he notices a leopard heading rapidly in his direction with the intention of having lunch.
The old poodle thinks, “Oh, oh! I’m in deep doo-doo now!” Noticing some bones on the ground close by, he immediately settles down to chew on the bones with his back to the approaching cat. Just as the leopard is about to leap the old poodle exclaims loudly, “Boy, that was one delicious leopard! I wonder if there are any more around here?”
Hearing this, the young leopard halts his attack in mid-strike, a look of terror comes over him and he slinks away into the trees. “Whew!”, says the leopard, “That was close! That old poodle nearly had me!”
Meanwhile, a monkey who had been watching the whole scene from a nearby tree, figures he can put this knowledge to good use and trade it for protection from the leopard. So off he goes, but the old poodle sees him heading after the leopard with great speed, and figures that something must be up. The monkey soon catches up with the leopard, spills the beans and strikes a deal for himself with the leopard.
The young leopard is furious at being made a fool of and says, “Here, monkey, hop on my back and see what’s going to happen to that conniving canine!”
Now, the old poodle sees the leopard coming with the monkey on his back and thinks, “What am I going to do now?”, but instead of running, the dog sits down with his back to his attackers, pretending he hasn’t seen them yet, and just when they get close enough to hear, the old poodle says.
“Where’s that dang monkey? I sent him off an hour ago to bring me another leopard!”
Moral of the story…
Don’t mess with old farts…age and treachery will always overcome youth and skill! BS and brilliance only come with age and experience.
By Stevie Wonder
September 1, 2006 09:35 AM | Link to this
“They” say that Heaven is 10 zillion light years away, and just the pure of heart will walk her righteous streets one day. But if there is a God, we need Him now. “Where is your God?”, that’s what my friends ask me. And I say “It’s taking Him so long, cause we’ve got so far to go”
By Stevie Wonder
September 1, 2006 09:37 AM | Link to this
I say “Why must my color black make me a lesser man?” I thought this world was made for every man. He loves us all, that’s what my God tells me. And it’s taking Him so long, ‘cause we’ve got so far to come.
By Stevie Wonder
September 1, 2006 09:40 AM | Link to this
“Where is your God?” He lives inside of me, but it’s taking Him so long ‘cause I’ve got so far to come. No more “where is your God”, people—inside please let Him be. If you open your heart, you can feel it, feel His spirit. And I say it’s taking Him so long, ‘cause we’ve got so far to come.
By Stevie Wonder
September 1, 2006 09:42 AM | Link to this
P.S. That one was for Renee and all you crackers here.
By Chilao
September 1, 2006 10:17 AM | Link to this
This should be etched in stone someplace.
In case we find ourselves starting to believe all the anti-American sentiment and negativity, we should remember England ‘s Prime Minister Tony Blair’s words during a recent interview. When asked by one of his Parliament members why he believes so much in America , he said: “A simple way to take measure of a country is to look at how many want in … and how many want out.”
By TramadoL29760
September 1, 2006 10:46 AM | Link to this
I just don’t have much to say these days, but so it goes. Today was a total loss. I guess it doesn’t bother me.
By chuck
September 1, 2006 11:30 AM | Link to this
Good morning. Uh Bruno, if you want to claim to be God, go for it…I hope you like hot weather…but don’t EVER post as me. You definitely could not handle being me. This is my first post under this topic. Ignore the mental patient aka Bruno.
Renee, I wanted to respond to your earlier post directed at Randy. I was wondering if you could clarify something for me. First you said that it was “not the message, but the delivery of the message and sometimes the messenger” that you objected to. In a later post you went on to say that you were not receptive to the message. You and I have had some decent discussions in the past on the issue of homosexuality. You can correct me if I’m wrong, but I don’t recall ever getting into any kind of name-calling thing with you. Again, it may have happened, but I don’t remember that if it did. I’ve always made my position on the issue clear, and I have gotten heated with a couple of people that I know you like. I guess my question for you is this: Let’s say that the past couple of years was totally different. Let’s say that from the moment I came to this blog I had been more Christ-like and less “chuck-like”. Tell me truthfully, would it have made any difference in your response to the message? If so, I want to apologize to you. Not necessarily for WHAT I said, but rather HOW I said it.
I can honestly say that I have never said anything on this blog that I knew to be false, and I have never said anything that is not fully supported by God’s Word. As you know, writing on this blog is not a full time job for me as it apparently is for Bruno and I tend to cut to the chase. That tends to cut out the normal “niceties” that really do occur in my REAL life that I spend with REAL people. While we probably would never be “buddies” in that real life, I don’t think you would find me to be repulsive or unfriendly. I’m usually a pretty likeable person. Anyway, for the most part you seem to be a nice person. You have a great personality and lately, we have even seemed to agree on a lot of things (What’s up with that?).
Billy, I don’t think you hang out with any real Christians. We don’t sit around plotting how we can get rid of all the “homos”. You know that I have belonged to CONSERVATIVE BAPTIST churches since I was 3 years old. I have heard tens of thousands of sermons, bible studies, and Sunday School lessons. I can honestly say that if I were to try to count the number of times that topic has been discussed, it would number less than 100 times TOTAL. It is not something that leads the discussion every week. It seems to come up on this BLOG every week, but that is probably because so many of the posters here are GAY.
Yes I am passionate about this issue, because I think this lifestyle is BAD FOR OUR WAY OF LIFE. Yes it is a sin so when the issue comes up, I am going to address that aspect of it because I am a Christian, but I also think that it is a bad idea to present it as a normal way of life. That said, I don’t want to force anybody to believe the way that I do for a variety of reasons. First Coercion (forced belief) never works for long. It isn’t real belief and is therefore useless though it may control behavior for awhile, it does not change lives. Second, I am not as powerful as Bruno. I doubt seriously that I could force anybody to believe anyway. Third,there is a difference between belief and politics. There are many of us in the Christian camp who aren’t willing to accept the societal changes that have occurred over the past 40 years or so. It is not about rolling back the clock per se, but rather about trying to make sure that things don’t get out of hand and put us past the tipping point. Certain types of PUBLIC behavior are inappropriate no matter who is doing them. These behaviors cheapen who we are as a people. The idea of modesty is becoming a thing of the past. So yes, I will fight politically for what I think is BEST for America. Those that disagree should and in fact do fight for their position just as passionately. I think that this can be done with CIVILITY, even though often times on this blog, it is not. I think my positions on the issues are well-reasoned and pass SCRIPTURAL muster as well. You disagree. BTW, most people understand that when it comes to politics that both the right and left push for the EXTREME position in hopes of moving the ball closer to the goal. Few of us expect to get legislation that goes as far even as we would like, but the political reality is that you have to push for that to get some of what you want. The liberals should understand that because you’ve been doing that a lot longer than we conservatives. That is exactly WHY it is called a “slippery slope.”
By Luther Vandross
September 1, 2006 11:40 AM | Link to this
Hi loved ones. Awful quiet here today. I hope y’all learned a few things about happiness through my songs. Just to set the record straight ( no, not about THAT), I want you to know that my masterpiece “Here and Now” was not about a person. Did any of you ever figure out what I REALLY meant in my greatest work “Dance With My Father”. Just so you all know, I’m dancing with Him right now.
By GOD
September 1, 2006 11:43 AM | Link to this
Welcome back, chuck. Your input IS valuable. Just be careful to speak for yourself, don’t try to co-opt my authority. Memorizing one Book doesn’t make you an expert on anything other than your own prejudices.
By Billy
September 1, 2006 11:45 AM | Link to this
Bruno, I was in the middle of a nice, long response, but to cmy computer crashed. (Our IT guy is a Mudd grad.)
Anyway, what I had written boiled down to: a) Nice personal attacks on your part.
b) While I might have started college at Tech, I didn’t finish there. I’m more into the social sciences — history, sociology, psychology. While it might not equal your shining example of what an education should be, I am fairly well rounded and know from experience that I am no idiot. Especially when compared to the general population, and you should know that a messageboard like this is not going to be populated by Nobel Prize winners and people with multiple doctorates from various Ivy League colleges and top-notch engineering schools.
c) With your diatribe on light and pigment mechanics you have once again done a bang-up job of avoiding the question, yet you’ve proven my point as you’ve done so. Me: “When someone asks what red and blue give you, just answer purple.” You: “Not only do I know what they make, I can tell the difference in mechanics of light and pigments, how to say ‘light’ in seventeen and a half languages, and the per capita income of Burkina Faso.” In all your posts, you’ve never actually addressed the topic we’re supposed to be discussing.
Now, back to where I was before I crashed.
As for the “deeper connections” between Math, Science, Philosophy, Religion, and Politics, sorry again to bore you and the good folks here at W2W. For me, these connections ARE interesting, because they reveal the mind of GOD. In addition, seeing the “big picture” of life also provides a solid moral basis for deciding upon such diverse topics as abortion, genetically altered foods, and cruel medical experimentation upon animals
The connections you speak of are largely perceived, drawn by people who want to find them. Of course math and science are intertwined, as are religion and philosophy and philosophy and politics. I am, by and large, against the three things you mentioned here, but I have yet to see how Heisenberg’s Uncertainty Principle comes into play with my feelings on the subjects.
Unfortunately, the Democrats have gotten everyone so polarized, no one is talking right now.
You have to be kidding. It’s not the left that has adopted the my-way-or-the-highway, with-us-or-against-us mindset. It’s not the left that equates dissent with terrorism.
You see, it’s dumbfounding to me how “compassionate” liberals can support wholesale abortion with no moral stigma attached. Similarly, how “smart” scientists can’t understand that genetically altered foods are an abomination to GOD and are harmful is beyond me. And we better not get started on cruel medical “experiments” done on animals like primates and bunny rabbits. The researchers really like bunny rabbits because they don’t scream as much as the primates when in pain.
You do lose me here, however. I think the majority of liberals agree that abortion is not the ideal. We also realize that our bodies are our own, and that the best way to reduce abortion is to make available all possible avenues of contraception and other information about sex. Genetically modified food? Well, we don’t know for sure that they’re harmful, but until we know for sure that they’re not, I’d rather not take my chances. That said…an abomination to God? Really? Is that because we alter the natural order? I’m of the mind that anything we build or do that alters the natural order is only an abomination if it hurts people or the environment, and we don’t really know at this point. And I don’t think anyone actually likes animal cruelty. Except Republicans, of course.
Welfare for able-bodied? You mean jobs provided by the government so its citizens wouldn’t starve?
But, to my somewhat surprise, Reagan turned out to be the greatest President of our lifetime. Not only did he defeat Communism once and for all, he made you proud to be an American again, a feeling that was lost during the Carter years. I know, you Libs like to look down upon people who are proud to be American, but I will always be proud to come from the greatest country on the planet.
Riiiiiight…
For my on-topic remark about happiness, I will again direct everyone to “Zen Mind, Beginner’s Mind” for a full discussion of the “Big Mind” vs. the “Small Mind” theory of human happiness by the master of all knowledge, Shunryu Suzuki. Interestingly enough, the Bible gives the same advice on happiness when it urges humans to be “Christ-like”. The Quran gives the same advice when it urges Muslims to “submit” to GOD’s Will. “Big Mind”, “Christ”, and “Allah” are all synonymous word to me.*
An on-topic remark? Again? I must have missed the first one in the midst of your incoherent ramblings. Hey, I totally agree with you that the “happiness” advice is the same in the different religions/philosophies. I agree that the gods are all the same thing. I don’t know how you can even think about supporting the republicans in power when they cater to the part of the population who believes you are going to hell just for equating Christ and Allah.
But sorry, Billy (and John), for making these “soporific” connections between Buddhism, Christianity, and Islam. Lord knows we’re all better off to keep these types of knowledge separate, lest anyone gets confused and stop hating based on ignorance.
I stand by what I said. And those aren’t different “types” of knowledge. They’re the same type of knowledge. The different types I’ve complained about are the obvious attempts you make to inject irrelevant info into a discussion. The merits of no longer classifying Pluto as a planet have no bearing on Mara’s favorite color of nail polish. Plus, I probably know as much about Buddhism, Christianity, and Islam as 95% of the people who live in this Christianist nation, specifically the Bible Belt, are not part of those groups, and do not have a degree in Theology or Comparitive Religion.
I am all for people being educated on the similarities in religions, but the religious do not want that. If an evangelical Christian learns that Buddhism contains instructions similar to Christ’s, he might decide that Jesus is not the only answer. It works for all religions. It’s not in their best interest to educate their followers.
.. all the subjects here are presented in a fragmented, disjointed way. To me, that’s why “smart” people like Billy, BC, and John can’t handle cross-disciplinary discussions at all.
Could subjects here be more integrated? Sure. But we can handle cross-disciplinary discussions perfectly well when more than one discipline is applicable. No one needs to read Kierkegaard to be able to pick out drapes.
They’re only too happy to go to their graves remembering that Evolutionists claim that the Earth is growing increasingly more complex, while at the very same time, physicists teach us that everything is falling apart. As far as comparing the core ideas of these disparate observations—No way, I’m too busy watching reruns of “Friends”.
Bruno, why can’t entropy and complexity be viewed liek a pendulum? With the Big Bang, AKA God’s massive fart, the universe went from order to chaos. The pendulum swings back to order, then chaos again. Little jumps in complexity which are then destroyed, resulting, tens of billions of years later, in everything having fallen apart completely. Why not? As to evolution, why can’t any creationist explain the appendix or wisdom teeth?
By GOD
September 1, 2006 11:48 AM | Link to this
And remember, chuck, if you want to win people over to your point of view, DON’T BE A BRUNO.
By Stanford-Binet
September 1, 2006 11:50 AM | Link to this
Yes, we have reviewed chuck’s comments here and sadly have to rescind his 149 rating, of which he is so proud.
By GOD
September 1, 2006 11:54 AM | Link to this
There you go trying to pick on my appendix and wisdom teeth again, Billy. The truth is that silly limited humans don’t always understand my genius, but think that they are smarter anyway. It’s called arrogance.
By GOD
September 1, 2006 11:55 AM | Link to this
Talk about “errors of proportion”. Billy stares in the face of my unlimited miracles and can only come up with “What about the appendix?”
By Billy
September 1, 2006 11:58 AM | Link to this
Few of us expect to get legislation that goes as far even as we would like, but the political reality is that you have to push for that to get some of what you want. The liberals should understand that because you’ve been doing that a lot longer than we conservatives.
Yeah, you’re right. We have. Here’s what we’ve done: Child labor laws, environmental protections, food safety laws, equal pay for equal work, workplace safety laws, social security, womens’ roght to vote, public education, rural electrification & the TVA, the ADA…
By GOD
September 1, 2006 11:59 AM | Link to this
But, I gotta run, Dubya has me on the hotline again. Maybe I can convince him to appear next week here on W2W to field the Libs questions about his policies. Wouldn’t that be fun?
By Billy
September 1, 2006 12:02 PM | Link to this
Yes, God. Speaking of arrogance, why is it that Bruno can come on here and tell us what idiots we all re, yet it’s liberals who are labeled as the “intellectual elitists”?
By Master Suzuki
September 1, 2006 12:02 PM | Link to this
Billy, I liked your postulation that creation and destruction are locked in an inextricably entwined dance together. Not only are you a good Buddhist, I think Christ would approve of that thought as well.
By Chilao
September 1, 2006 12:11 PM | Link to this
Didn’t Newt’s Contract with America lessen oversight of businesses, resulting in the Enron, WorldCom, etc ripoffs?
and so we can actually thank him for Sarbannes-Oxley,l which has actually helped employment.
By Just Being Me
September 1, 2006 12:11 PM | Link to this
Is it just me, or has this blog become unbearably annoying??
All this posting under someone else’s name is childish, and has really gotten out of hand.
I may be late on this one, perhaps you’ve already gotten to the bottom of it, but can anyone explain why Bruno posts 13 one-paragraph entries in a row?? Hey Bruno, why not put it all in one post, buddy?
Why can’t the AJC do something about the annoying little gnat named Tramado??????????
Geez, if this keeps up, I don’t think I’ll be back. THIS ABSOLUTELY SUCKS.
By Billy
September 1, 2006 12:17 PM | Link to this
By GOD — September 1, 2006 11:54 AM
There you go trying to pick on my appendix and wisdom teeth again, Billy. The truth is that silly limited humans don’t always understand my genius, but think that they are smarter anyway. It’s called arrogance.
By GOD — September 1, 2006 11:55 AM
Talk about “errors of proportion”. Billy stares in the face of my unlimited miracles and can only come up with “What about the appendix?”
Is this more evidence that god has multiple personalities? He’s now talking to himself…Answer the question, god. Why did I have to have my wisdom teeth cut out? Why did you design us that way? Was it just to cause us pain, you sadistic bastard?
By Renee
September 1, 2006 12:20 PM | Link to this
Renee, I wanted to respond to your earlier post directed at Randy. I was wondering if you could clarify something for me. First you said that it was “not the message, but the delivery of the message and sometimes the messenger” that you objected to. In a later post you went on to say that you were not receptive to the message. You and I have had some decent discussions in the past on the issue of homosexuality. You can correct me if I’m wrong, but I don’t recall ever getting into any kind of name-calling thing with you. Again, it may have happened, but I don’t remember that if it did. I’ve always made my position on the issue clear, and I have gotten heated with a couple of people that I know you like. I guess my question for you is this: Let’s say that the past couple of years was totally different. Let’s say that from the moment I came to this blog I had been more Christ-like and less “chuck-like”. Tell me truthfully, would it have made any difference in your response to the message? If so, I want to apologize to you. Not necessarily for WHAT I said, but rather HOW I said it.
Chuck, you are right, you and I have not had any “words” so to speak, however, I have personally had a problem with the way you have attacked others. IMHO, the message does lose it’s punch depending on tone of delivery and/or the messenger. Personally, I know the Christian methodology and teachings, so no, I am not open to them on any level. I don’t find them to be consistent, true or even remotely believable. However, I would be willing to have a discussion or debate with someone, if they would be willing to hear my side, and my way of thinking. And while you don’t try to convert, so to speak, you and Randy do think your way is the truth. Just because it is your truth, doesn’t make it my truth. You may feel like fire and brimstone is in order for me, however, that doesn’t make it so.
Yes I am passionate about this issue, because I think this lifestyle is BAD FOR OUR WAY OF LIFE. Yes it is a sin so when the issue comes up, I am going to address that aspect of it because I am a Christian, but I also think that it is a bad idea to present it as a normal way of life
My question is to you is why you are so passionate about something that does not affect your way of life. My being gay in no way hinders your beliefs or your way of life. You should continue as you do in your quest to please God and allow others to do as they so choose. Christianity really hinders openmindedness for some people, and that is because of what is being taught. You are not supposed to think for yourself, you are supposed to blindly follow. I don’t share your beliefs but that is my right and should be respected. Additionally laws should not be made to try to get me to live the lifestyle one thinks is the right lifestyle or what one believes is best for society.
Those comments are the ones that make me speak on the arrogance of Christians.
By TramadoL52166
September 1, 2006 12:28 PM | Link to this
Not much on my mind these days, but what can I say? It’s not important. I just don’t have much to say lately. I’ve just been letting everything pass me by recently, but eh.
By chuck
September 1, 2006 12:30 PM | Link to this
DOG, I thought you were leaving. BTW, your input was interesting, and even somewhat thought-provoking until you went off the deep end. I see the connection between science, math and Christianity. I also see the connection between politics and religion. The problem is that MOST Republican politicians it seems just pander to those of us to whom Faith is important. They give lip service to get votes but have not followed through with meaningful reform. There are too many Christians who vote Republican because we don’t have any alternative. Reagan is one of the few who really understood where we were coming from. I don’t think that he did when he first ran for the Presidency, but he came to that place as he talked to the American people. I did find one thing to agree with you about. He was the greatest President of the 20th century. To paraphrase the old “All in the Family” theme song, “Mr. We could use a man like Ronald Reagan again.”
You are also correct about welfare reform. Clinton had no choice but to sign the bill because it passed with a veto proof margin. It was a 100% Republican bill, but more importantly, it was a 100% AMERICAN bill. More than any other action, it spurred economic growth in America, which BTW, Clinton took credit for also.
As for “Philosophy” and religion…they might fit well together, but Philosophy and FAITH have nothing in common. Most of the philosophers that I have read and studied are nothing more than blowhards who sit around trying to convince the rest of us how “deep” and intellectual they are. Philosophy is nice diversion and intellectual EXERCISE, but it very rarely does any practical good. BTW, are you sure you are a doctor and not a philosopher?
By H.I. McDonough
September 1, 2006 12:55 PM | Link to this
“Christianity really hinders openmindedness”. This ranks right up there with Marion Barry stating “The DC crime rate is lower now that we don’t coun’t all the murders”
By Edwina McDonough
September 1, 2006 01:04 PM | Link to this
“you are supposed to blindly follow”. I wondered why they wanted me to get a frontal-lobotomy as a part of the initiation ceremony(?)
By Renee
September 1, 2006 01:21 PM | Link to this
I’m just wondering how fast a***** really multiply.
By Chilao
September 1, 2006 02:02 PM | Link to this
Guy and his girlfriend finally got around to doing it doggy-style, in an unnatural way. And she really really LOVED it, her orgasms had never been so intense, especially with his arm reaching around, rubbing….
Realizing, however, that they had not been using protection, she finally had to ask him “Can I get pregnant this way?”.
He replied, “Of course you can, where do you think lawyers come from?”.
By Mara
September 1, 2006 02:07 PM | Link to this
If, as “Bruno” said, someone is posting under his aliases, then I’m impressed. They’ve really nailed his tone and style….
JBM - I hear ya. If the blog keeps sucking as much as it has for the last week or two, I’ll be right behind ya…
many of us in the Christian camp who aren’t willing to accept the societal changes that have occurred over the past 40 years or so. It is not about rolling back the clock per se…but rather about trying to make sure that things don’t get out of hand…The idea of modesty is becoming a thing of the past
chuck, if you can’t accept societal progress as fait accompli, you are trying to roll back the clock. You are advocating a return to that great era where the flash of an ankle or the sight of a bare arm were risque and something a “modest” woman wouldn’t dare. You see, most of what you advocate is based on your interpretation of “right”. I’d like to know who you think should right out the guidelines for what is “modest” (burqua, anyone?) Shall we criminalize any and all displays of the human body? Who gets to decide what is “decent” and what is “moral”? You? Bush? The Pope?
“I will fight politically for what I think is BEST for America.
Curtailing freedom of expression, freedom of speech, the right to privacy, legislating morality and enshrining your flavor of Christianity into law is what you think is “best for America”?
The loudest and largest group isn’t automatically “right”, chuck. Quite often, the mob is very, very wrong. And in their wisdom, the Founding Fathers knew that and provided protections for the minority…protections which you so blithely suggest should be ignored for the “good” of society. And you don’t see anything wrong with this? Seriously?
By NetBanker
September 1, 2006 02:25 PM | Link to this
It is not about rolling back the clock per se, but rather about trying to make sure that things don’t get out of hand and put us past the tipping point. Chuck…of what tipping point are you speaking? I’d also be interested in hearing your response to Renee’s question. What I’d really like to understand is how exactly gay people or gay people getting married affects your life and your marriage. I’m asking because I hear very broad statements and/or nebulous concepts (i.e “the tipping point”) but nothing concrete and so it’s impossible to debate.
I have been going through a very similar experience at work with people making very broad claims about an area for which I have inherited responsibilty. In attempting to respond to these claims I’ve started asking very pointed questions to drill down to the details. As it turns out the claims our management has heard were “The product documentation for this complex module is wrong or doesn’t exist” has turned out to be that the documentation of the business logic layer for ONE service (out of 8 in the module) hasn’t been kept up to date even as the code has been changed. The business logic is only section of an entire functional specification and there is also end-user documentation as well as context sensitive help. I was told to find a way to create full blown documentation without impacting any current work when it turns out that only an update to something that does indeed exist is all that is needed.
Certain types of PUBLIC behavior are inappropriate no matter who is doing them. These behaviors cheapen who we are as a people. The idea of modesty is becoming a thing of the past. So yes, I will fight politically for what I think is BEST for America Chuck, I agree with you regarding inappropriate public behaviors, but how does that end up translating into you opposing a civil marriage (private affair between 2 individuals to gain sanction of laws that deal with the treatment of property and children should the marriage disolve) for gay people? If Brittney Spear’s 55 hour marriage or Liz Taylor’s 7 marriages had not direct impact on your life or marriage then how could a gay/lesbian couple getting married do so? What has the impact of the marriages in Massachusetts been on you? Is it really the use of the term marriage and it’s religious connotations to which you take exception or is it really the rights, protections, and responsibilities spelled out in the law? If the latter, why and what impact would gay people accessing those laws have that access by hetersexuals doesn’t?
By NetBanker
September 1, 2006 02:48 PM | Link to this
The loudest and largest group isn’t automatically “right”, chuck. Quite often, the mob is very, very wrong. And in their wisdom, the Founding Fathers knew that and provided protections for the minority…protections which you so blithely suggest should be ignored for the “good” of society. And you don’t see anything wrong with this? Seriously? Go, Renee!! That’s my whole issue with the “Will of the people” argument used by the Republicans over the gay marriage votes. It seems as though the will of the people is only good when it comes to being able to scapegoat a minority group otherwise the Supreme Court’s activist judges wouldn’t have named Bush as president over Al Gore.
By TramadoL44954
September 1, 2006 03:09 PM | Link to this
Not much on my mind lately. My life’s been completely boring these days. I’ve just been hanging out not getting anything done. So it goes.
By Mara
September 1, 2006 03:12 PM | Link to this
Net, the “activist judge” title has always made me laugh. You can be an “activist” even if your are merely following the law (like judges are supposed to do) if that law happens to be one the right-wing disagrees with. Or you can be an “activist” if you don’t apply the law the way the right-wing thinks it should be applied. And third, you can be an “activist” if you completely ignore the law and just do what you think is right….
The only way to prevent oneself from being labled an “activist judge” is by finding for the side with the most wingnuts, regardless of the actual law, case history, or precedent.
Oh, and that was my quote you gave Renee credit for, though I don’t mind sharing :^)
By NetBanker
September 1, 2006 03:23 PM | Link to this
Oops…sorry Mara! I gave Renee credit for your post.
By Renee
September 1, 2006 03:38 PM | Link to this
ah hem…can I please credit for anything???
LOL, jk….everybody have a great holiday weekend. Mine won’t be that great, I’m moving in my new condo, so I’m going to be tired, tired, tired.
By NetBanker
September 1, 2006 03:39 PM | Link to this
I noticed that little anomoly in the use of ‘activist’ judge by the conservative camp. I always laughed about the claims of activist judges interpretting the law. HELLO?! That is what a judge DOES. They apply the law in their rulings to the best of their ability based on the law, precedent, and circumstances of the case. If legal knowledge and skill wasn’t needed then anyone could be a judge. Armchair judges are more dangerous than armchair generals or quarterbacks.
Before I forget and because I’m trying to get something out the door to a client so I can leave for the day…Happy Labor Day, everyone!! May each of you have a safe and great weekend.
By Mara
September 1, 2006 03:43 PM | Link to this
that’s okay, Net. There’s plenty of credit to go around…Renee’s said a lot of things that I never got around to giving her kudos for, so we’ll just call it even.
By NetBanker
September 1, 2006 03:52 PM | Link to this
Ohhh Renee…using a holiday weekend to MOVE? What kind of craziness is THAT?! Uhhhh…the wife is moving WITH you into the new condo, yes? So it might not be all that bad…there’s the requisite ‘break in’ sex after all.
I have my best friend in town so my weekend is about enjoying the fruit of some of the special (wink, wink) plants in my garden, floating around in the pool, and maybe doing a little running around to the movies or maybe the bodies exhibit at Civic Center.
By TramadoL33468
September 1, 2006 09:30 PM | Link to this
I haven’t gotten anything done recently. I’ve just been hanging out doing nothing. I haven’t been up to anything these days, but it’s not important. Today was a total loss.
By TramadoL92394
September 1, 2006 09:53 PM | Link to this
My mind is like a bunch of nothing, but I guess it doesn’t bother me. I haven’t been up to anything recently. I’ve pretty much been doing nothing to speak of.
By Michele Moore
September 4, 2006 03:28 PM | Link to this
GREAT article and commentary, many thanks!
Many philosophers and psychiatrists, (Viktor Frankl, author of Man’s Search for Meaning, for one) believe that pursuing happiness makes happiness all the more elusive.
What we can do is to choose to cultivate and pursue the actions and attitudes that lead to happy, spiritually successful lives.
Being Guided by Goodness, Fueling our Lives and our Work with Fun, trying to Touch Each Person We Meet With A Positive Spirit all lead to happier, more fulfilling lives.
So does Avoiding the Fault Finding Feel Goods, Seeing Obstacles Not Problems, Making Decisions Not Judgments and learning how to Profit From Our Mistakes.
Some of the happiest people in the world are Buddhists who do not have a concept of God similar to our Judeo-Islamic-Christian ethic.
Most people believe that happiness is far more and very different from just a bowl of ice cream or a warm puppy.
Thanks for all your excellent comments and insights that really encourage us to examine our beliefs about happiness!
Michele Moore, Author of How To Live A Happy Life - 101 Ways To Be Happier [www.HappinessHabit.com] [www.MicheleMoore.com]