AJC.com > Opinion > Woman to Woman > Archives > 2006 > June > 08 > Entry
Should fathers be held financially responsible for children born without their consent?
Shaunti Feldhahn, a right-leaning columnist, writes the commentary this week and Diane Glass, a left-leaning columnist, responds.
Shaunti Feldhahn, a right-leaning columnist, writes the commentary this week and Diane Glass, a left-leaning columnist, responds.
Commentary
In March 2006, a Michigan man filed a lawsuit to get off paying child support for his baby. He said his former girlfriend knew he didn’t want kids, and had promised she couldn’t get pregnant. He argued that since it was her choice – not his — to carry the baby to term, he shouldn’t have to cough up $475 in monthly child support.
Feminist and conservative family groups don’t agree on much, but they did on this. Both indignantly pointed out that being an unwilling dad doesn’t relieve a man of financial responsibility.
That, however, is where the agreement ends. Because this case is also nicknamed “Roe v. Wade for men,” and points up a glaring inconsistency of the abortion movement. If a man who wants to be a father has no say in whether his baby gets aborted, why should an unwilling father be forced into responsibility for a baby he wanted to abort?
I get many sad emails from bereft men who wanted to be dads, who were willing to raise their child alone, but were helpless to do anything as their girlfriend took that ultimate choice away from them. It is not surprising that in the reverse case, some men would resent having to pay for children born against their wishes.
That said, lack of birth consent doesn’t cancel financial responsibility. As one Kentucky court dryly noted in a similar case, “The Court sees no evidence that the state required [the father] to engage in the sexual activity that resulted in the conception of his son.” Hate to be the one to break it to you, guys, but you assume that potential responsibility every time you hop into bed. Yet one more reason why that whole abstinence idea may not be as obsolete as you thought.
Consent issues are irrelevant once there is a little living, breathing and entirely dependent person in the world. As Concerned Women for America’s Dr. Janice Crouse put it in an interview, “It’s not a matter of what the father’s rights are: it’s a matter of what the child deserves and needs. An innocent child requires same amount attention no matter how he or she is conceived.”
Rebuttal
While the plight of good fathers who are denied their destiny is mildly upsetting, Shaunti does what many people do when she confuses reproductive rights with financial responsibility.
Let’s be clear: Men don’t have the same reproductive rights as women. That’s because they’re not women. There is no injustice here. Someone’s rights are only violated when you have two people with the same abilities and one of them is denied something because of subjective bias. There’s nothing subjective about a uterus. To deny women sole custody over their bodies would result in abuses far worse, says Nancy Northup, President of the Center for Reproductive Rights. “Denying women the right to control their own bodies turns common law principles on its head. It is a basic human right that is protected by our Constitution.”
Still, some people maintain men should have the same reproductive rights as women or be absolved of any financial responsibility because of this perceived reproductive injustice. But that makes as much sense as white men carrying around picket signs for a men’s rights rally.
“Men do have reproductive rights,” Northup explains. “The 1942 U.S. Supreme Court case, Skinner v. Oklahoma, denied the use of sterilization as a consequence of criminal activity. This seminal case defined reproductive rights as a fundamental human right for both sexes.”
But the law doesn’t give men the right to skirt their financial responsibilities after the cigarette is smoked and the rabbit dies. Of course, this doesn’t mean women should absolve themselves of their ethical responsibilities.
A recent paternity case is one example where I would argue a man should be exonerated from any financial responsibility. This case involves a woman who secretly saved her lover’s sperm for insemination duty, presumably while on a bathroom break. Her victim took it to the courts after being sued for child support two years later. His theft claim was dismissed. Deceitful tampering with human lives should be a criminal offense.
This is cold comfort, I know. But if men want to avoid such deceit they are not without options. There’s always abstinence and outpatient vasectomies. Birth control doesn’t guarantee 100 percent effectiveness and sex doesn’t guarantee loyalty. So wear a condom, guys.
Comments
By Chilao
June 9, 2006 05:01 PM | Link to this
I certainly have to agree with Shaunti here, generally, and Diane’s last statement as well. And the ‘empty the condom for impregnation’ could be considered fraud if things had been discussed ahead of time that neither wanted pregnancy. fortunately I have never had to deal with this, a combination of being selective about partners and selective about specific activity. Trust me, she is not running to the restroom with my condom. LOL
In the same way a man has no right to insist a woman have an abortion, he also has no right to insist she carry it to term. It IS just sperm after all. So zip it up and find more creative ways to expand your sexuality. Isn’t it all in the mind, anyway?
By Rick
June 12, 2006 07:30 AM | Link to this
The best way to resolve this, is to have courts award child custody fairly (I mean randomly here) between men and women. If both men and women want to raise the child, let the judge award custody of the child based on the flip of a coin. Men do not have equal chances to raise their children after divorce or when there is no marriage. Too many women put themselves (or feel they are) in the position of “primary” caregiver so that they will receive custody of the child. Men are not usually in a position that would qualify them as the primary child caregiver, they are placed in a position of primary financial supporter. Men can care for children just as well as women. If more women paid child support to men, both sexes would be more cautious about raising a family outside of marriage.
By Whiley
June 12, 2006 08:31 AM | Link to this
” If both men and women want to raise the child, let the judge award custody of the child based on the flip of a coin. “
lol ! ONLY if & when both parties have uterus’s, so when sex occurs there is an equal chance man or woman will have to carry a pregnancy for 9 months. This will never be 100% because men aren’t the ones to deal with the risks & pains with pregnancy.
Unmarried men who help create a pregnancy should not have the option to be around only if they feel like it. If they don’t want a baby, at least wear a condom. Or stop having sex with women you don’t care about. OR, DON’T have sex till you are married.
RoeVWade for men? Are you kidding me? The right to choose has nothing to DO with men & their right to “Opt out” too. It is about a woman making that final choice on whether she can physically, mentally, financially create a baby. It may even come down to being in a very abusive trapped marriage. Or about REALLY not wanting to have that 4th child because she simply will go insane. It is about the person giving actual birth or not. Until men have to make this extremely personal & possibly dangerous choice, it’s not their decision to make.
In a good solid relationship, married or not, both parties are able to weight the options together. In good stable healthy relationships, a man will always have a say-so.
Should men be forced to pay child support for the baby’s they helped to created? Should I be forced to pay for MORE children men already have abandoned?
By Brian Curtis
June 12, 2006 08:39 AM | Link to this
Interesting. Despite some minor disagreements, both Shaunti and Diane come to the same conclusion, that an unwilling father should be financially responsible for a kid.
Shaunti’s stance is unsurprising, but Diane’s is startling. She actually resorts to the lame argument of “You made your choice when you decided to have sex.” The irony, of course, is that this was the exact same argument used by anti-choice advocates when women were first fighting for reproductive rights. It’s still made today by the sex-hating religious zealots. Why on earth would anyone who claims to speak for women adopt the same argument tactics used by their enemies?
Personally, I favor an opt-out clause with a set amount of financial remuneration—enough to pay for an abortion or the first year of care, for example. I know life isn’t fair, but if we’re recognizing that the CHOICE to have a child belongs solely to the woman, I just don’t see why the man should be denied all “choice” when it comes to the financial and legal burdens that come with the consequences of HER choice. Isn’t that involuntary (economic) servitude?
By Archie
June 12, 2006 08:52 AM | Link to this
I say yes fathers should be responsible for children born without their consent because as Diane says no one forces the guy to have sex. In cases of fraud as described by Diane then I say the guy should be given a break but such cases are rare,thus guys have to take more responsibility during the sex act.
By Whiley
June 12, 2006 08:53 AM | Link to this
ATTENTION ALL THOSE IN FAVOR of men being able to walk away from all the pregnancies they help create: understand YOU’LL be the ones to pay for the massive increase in section 8 housing, food stamps, medical care, etc. that will be needed to fund their freedom to spread seed.
YOU PAY FOR IT, not the rest of us.
By moc
June 12, 2006 08:57 AM | Link to this
It absolutely amazes me that in an era when birth control is so readily available, that these things are even an issue. Too many men, especially men with a little money have become targets. If a woman lies to a man over the issue of birth control and then becomes pregnant in no way should a man be held responsible. The shameless act of purposely becoming pregnant just to get a payday needs to be dealt with by the courts. How much more disgusting does it get than women who intentionally become pregnant even when there is no possibility of marriage to the father and then wants to cash in on the pregnancy and uses a child as nothing more than the means to a check. If it can be proven that a woman lied about her birth control status it should be considered fraud and no man should be forced to pay one dime under those circumstances.
By Brian Curtis
June 12, 2006 09:00 AM | Link to this
Whiley’s right: Once a man decides to have sex and an unintended/unwanted pregnancy results, the WOMAN should have ALL the power from that point forward. Not only should she be the sole decider as to whether to continue or terminate the pregnancy, she should also dictate whether the man will or will not become a legally and financially obligated father against his will.
It’s all up to her; the man has no say, no choice, and no legal recourse. Whatever she decides will become of the rest of his life, is what he must submit and live with. The man is right where he belongs—squarely under the poor, victimized woman’s heel, subject to her every whim and decision, because the only way SHE can have rights is for HIM to have none.
Welcome to the paradise that is Whiley’s World. Anyone SANE have any comments on the issue?
By Amelia
June 12, 2006 09:05 AM | Link to this
In this day and age a woman that doesn’t want to get pregnant certainly does not have to. This issue has nothing to do with abortion, and everything to do with not getting pregnant in the first place. Babies should not be the pawns in what is increasingly becoming nothing more than a scheme to cash in on a relationship. Also men should be aware that these women are out there and on the prowl and protect themselves accordingly.
By Lyrazel
June 12, 2006 09:05 AM | Link to this
What about anonymous sperm donations? If a woman has a child via invetro-fertilization can she sue for paternity? Yes. As more and more donation clinics start to require medical information from clients prior to donation they also now keep records of who was impregnated by whom for medical history reasons. So guys do not be surprised if you one day get arrested for failure to pay child support on a child you never knew existed conceived from your sperm that you deposited on a lark with your buddies for that extra $20 on poker night. Women should be made to sign against future paternity lawsuits when being clinically fertilized by an anonymous donor but there is no law in place. Should men be held responsible for kids they conceived but failed to learn about until court summons? Well, until the courts accepts the fact women can and do use children for their own financial gain men will be held liable. Proof of paternity is in the DNA regardless of conception methods.
By Jack
June 12, 2006 09:05 AM | Link to this
“If a woman lies to a man over the issue of birth control and then becomes pregnant in no way should a man be held responsible.”
Who says birth control is the sole responsibility of the woman? Assume nothing, trust no one. Wear a raincoat. iIf you help create, pay for the child.
By GOB
June 12, 2006 09:07 AM | Link to this
You have to love the absolute black and white perspective that some people on here have.
By Whiley
June 12, 2006 09:15 AM | Link to this
“If a woman lies to a man over the issue of birth control and then becomes pregnant in no way should a man be held responsible.”
If a man used his own birth control, he can never be trapped.
Can you imagine a woman believing every man that said, “I don’t need to use condoms, uh, I’m steril,uh, I’ve had a vasectomy”, “I’m careful, I’ve never gotten a woman pregnant I don’t even need condoms”. “I have very low sperm counts so I’ve never had to use condoms”
lol
By Archie
June 12, 2006 09:17 AM | Link to this
I will defend Whiley on this issue because as a married man I buy condoms every month so a man can take responsibility for birth control,etc. Every man knows that a woman can become pregnant if he has sex with her so if a guy absolutely does not want children the guy has to get up off his behind and buy a condom or get snipped. I have some problems with the way that women do somethings but I get mad at men on this issue because so often as men we simply do no want to use a condom. Men do not like condoms but yet men think because they tell the woman they don’t want children that the woman will take care of things,well, let’s be realistic and understand that women are ones that can get pregnant and women think differently sometimes than men so if you want to play and not pay,wrap it up.
By Amelia
June 12, 2006 09:26 AM | Link to this
Why is it that sexually active women manage to avoid pregnancy until they jump in the sack with, for instance, a professional athlete. All of a sudden they become fertile Myrtles. Does no one see this as victimization of the man?
By chuck
June 12, 2006 09:28 AM | Link to this
Hello everybody.
I’m back from a two week Romania mission trip, and I see that nothing much has changed. It is great to be back in the greatest country on earth. Romania is super and the people are wonderful, but there is no substitute for fried chicken and sweet ice tea…in moderation of course.
I felt more than heard my name being taken in vain a couple of weeks ago. Was that you Jack? I would have loved to weigh in on those topics. This one however, is pretty lame. I am so glad that I had the good sense to wait until marriage to have sex. I am also glad that I have been FAITHFUL TO MY WIFE FOR THESE NEARLY 27 YEARS OF MARRIAGE.
Here is my advice to those men/boys who think they are like animals and have to stick their little thingie in everything that moves: Take a lawyer with you on every date. That’s right… a lawyer AND a notary public, AND an ob/gyn doctor. Have your potential one-night-stand sign a pre-sexial agreement, submit to an examination that determines whether or not she is in the proper time of her cycle to become pregnant, and have all of your condoms checked by a laboratory to make sure that they are not semenally permeable. OR, just follow God’s PLAN…One man for one woman for LIFE.
By Whiley
June 12, 2006 09:28 AM | Link to this
Brian, are you saying men should have the freedom to have as many unprotected sex partners as possible without the “inconvenience” of using condoms? How many men even “check back” to see if that sex encounter on that long weekend vacation didn’t end up in a pregnancy? Or that woman they had a few dates with then stopped calling her all together after sex?
If each & every man used their own birth control THEY COULD NEVER BE TRAPPED! It is no secret or new thing there are women who do try to trap men. It’s sick.
Better reason to use your own birth control! If you don’t want a baby, USE YOUR OWN BIRTH CONTROL.
Why is this so difficult to grasp? If a “rich” man is being targeted by women that only want money, I’d say USE YOUR OWN BIRTH CONTROL & DISPOSE OF IT IMMEDIATELY AFTER USE.
Why is this so difficult?
By Justin
June 12, 2006 09:32 AM | Link to this
I agree with Rick and Brian Curtis.
Men should be given just as much right to raise their children as a woman. A mother should be just as financially responsible for the child as the father.
I would like for all to lobby for mandatory DNA testing for all newborns to verify their parentage. If a woman will lie about her ability to conceive, she will lie about who conceived the child with her.
When the father primarily is responsible for the financial support of a child, it is economic servitude to the mother. She can spend the money according to her whim and the money may not necessarily be used for the child. I think women who recieve child support should keep all receipts and periodically be audited to see if the money is being used for the well-being of the child.
By chuck
June 12, 2006 09:34 AM | Link to this
Because Whiley, THE BEST condoms have a 14% FAILURE RATE!?!?!. WOULD YOU FLY IN A PLANE THAT HAS A 14% FAILURE RATE? Some brands have as much as a 50% failure rate. There is only ONE plan that works 100% of the time…GOD’S PLAN.
By Justin
June 12, 2006 09:35 AM | Link to this
Whiley and some of the others think a good man can’t be trapped. Not all men are promiscuous. A good man who takes care of business can still be a victim of a conniving woman who wants to get pregnant on purpose.
See 9:26 a.m. post by Amelia…
By Justin
June 12, 2006 09:37 AM | Link to this
Or just see Chuck’s 9:28 a.m. post, third paragraph…
Men have to be very careful these days.
By chuck
June 12, 2006 09:43 AM | Link to this
Hey gang.
It is great to be back. I’ll be checking in some this week, but I’ve got to go. I have a MAJOR Honey-do list to take care of today. See ya’ll soon.
By Billy
June 12, 2006 09:43 AM | Link to this
YOU PAY FOR IT, not the rest of us.
So, what, you don’t pay taxes too?
It is about a woman making that final choice on whether she can physically, mentally, financially create a baby.
No, the baby is already created. It’s about whether she can physically, mentally, financially, and emotionally care for said baby.
In cases of fraud as described by Diane then I say the guy should be given a break but such cases are rare
I dunno, Archie. That case was extreme, but just generally lying about birth control? I bet it’s more common than we realize. You know what I think is funny? A man lies to a woman to get her into bed and it’s rape, but if a woman lies to a man to get pregnant with a child she knows he doesn’t want, he has to pay her. But that’s fair, right Whiley? Because he’s just a quasi-rapist to begin with…
BC — Good point about Diane’s argument.
This reminds me about last week’s statement regarding old-fashioned deference toward women — how you can’t expect it and genuine equality. Well, you can’t both insist that you and only you have control over your reproductive system and then use it unilaterally to attack (yes, attack) men. I’m not saying that I should be able to authorize an abortion against the woman’s will. Nor should I be able to force her to carry a baby to term. But if she knew I didn’t want kids and still made the effort to get pregnant, even if such effort was limited to going off the pill without telling me, she shouldn’t just get off scot-free and force me to pay her a huge chunk of my paycheck.
You know what would be justice in that situation? If she gets pregnant by using subterfuge, she should be charged with fraud. The moment baby is born, sole custody should be given to the father. If he wants, he can raise the child on his own where he doesn’t have to worry about the negative influence of a woman who would use her uterus as a weapon. Or, if he likes, he can give the child up for adoption. Letting a woman who would do such a thing retain custody and receive child support is just paying a criminal for her acts and giving the child an unsound mother. She shouldn’t be rewarded for fraud, and the kids should not be punished for her actions by letting her raise him.
By chuck
June 12, 2006 09:44 AM | Link to this
OH, and make sure you send those little soldiers out armed to the teeth with orders to shoot those eggs on sight.
By Whiley
June 12, 2006 09:46 AM | Link to this
Whiley if a man is standing on the sidewalk and feels that he is safe and a car runs onto the sidewalk and hits him, is he liable just because he is part of the act. On the other hand, just because the pedestrian has the right of way does one step off the curb in front of oncoming traffic? When a man protects himself at the same time a woman is telling him that she is doing likewise should he still be financially liable for the rest of his life? The woman has the equipment that allows her to carry the child. Does she not bear a predominace of the responsibility here? Or is she like the pedestrian that walks into speeding traffic gets hit and still wants a payday? Theoretically the cars should have slammed on the brakes to avoid the stupid pedestrian. But as we all know it is the pedestrian that get flattened through their own bad judgement and irresponsibility.
By Justin
June 12, 2006 09:46 AM | Link to this
Whiley,
In family court and your world, men have no rights to their children, any right to say what money is taken from them for child support or any right to know how the money is spent on the child. We should have no right to how they are raised and must basically be a babysitter for the mother when she feels like we should have the children.
By Whiley
June 12, 2006 09:49 AM | Link to this
Hello Chuck! :) Is “God’s plan” for women to be constantly pregnant? Is it “God’s plan” for all men to be able to walk away from any & all responsibility? Is that what you mean? Without condoms it’s almost 100% you’ll create a pregnancy. Your “God’s plan” sounds irrisponsible to me: whatever happens, happens. eww !
Justin, unless a woman creates a pregnancy with a rich man, she’s usually paying more. Including being the primary caregiver which is much harder work than every other weekend parent. I can’t relate to what you are describing because the people I’ve known are normal middle class families, usually both parents working type of thing.
Children are expensive even when you are a penny pincher!
If you never ever want to be trapped or have to pay child support to an ex living the “high life” off all your hard earned money, get a vasectomy. Problem solved forever. If you do want children, understand divorce happens. Child support payments go with the territory. OR, change the laws so you can walk away without any responsibility. Get somebody else to fund your wicked ex only out for your money.
By Archie
June 12, 2006 09:49 AM | Link to this
Italic:Men should be given just as much right to raise their children as a woman. A mother should be just as financially responsible for the child as the father.
I agree with that aforementioned statement.
Whiley’s post at 9:28 am is the best post that I have seen from Whiley.
Chuck as far as God’s plan goes you are to be commended for how you handled yourself the last 30 years but not everyone follows God’s plan and those people need to use condoms and follow the plan Whiley outlined in her 9:28 post. Last week I posted about women needing to take blame for something well this week I say it’s time for men take responsibility for birth control. The truth is as men we don’t like condoms and that’s why it’s so hard for us to take the blame when an unwanted pregnancy comes up. The failure rate comes into play because as men we do a half-behind job of putting the condom on in the first place and we don’t put emphasis on condom quality when buying them because we really don’t want to use them. I will be critical of men this week for sure.
By Jack
June 12, 2006 09:51 AM | Link to this
“All of a sudden they become fertile Myrtles. Does no one see this as victimization of the man?”
As a professional athlete or “man with money” he should be aware of these kinds of golddiggers and make the right preparations to avoid the trap.
Hey Chuck! Good to hear from you.
By The72John
June 12, 2006 09:51 AM | Link to this
Doesn’t any man who has sex with a woman run a slight risk of discovering a couple of months later that there’s a little bit of his DNA currently developing into Junior? Seems to me that by having sex, you’re signing on to the possibility that there might, no matter how slight the possibility, be a child nine months down the road.
I can’t sign on to the idea that a father should have a say in whether a child is carried to term, because the father doesn’t have to carry the physical or emotional stress of pregnancy. But, I can see Brian Curtis’ idea of a “buyout clause” as being somewhat viable.
By Justin
June 12, 2006 09:51 AM | Link to this
Conniving women just want it all, control of the man, child, and control of the money.
By Billy
June 12, 2006 09:53 AM | Link to this
If a man used his own birth control, he can never be trapped.
What about the aforementioned case of the woman saving the oral “results” and impregnating herself with it after the deed was long over?
Can you imagine a woman believing every man that said, “I don’t need to use condoms, uh, I’m steril,uh, I’ve had a vasectomy”, “I’m careful, I’ve never gotten a woman pregnant I don’t even need condoms”. “I have very low sperm counts so I’ve never had to use condoms”
First, no one has said anything excusing such behavior on the part of men. Second, women still have the option of abortion. Hell, if they have second thoughts right after the deed they can get Plan B. The men have no post-intercourse recourse unless they are into felching. Which most aren’t.
Now, I’m not saying men should have an abortion-level option, one that would end the pregnancy or anything. But something to protect themselves from women who are either baby-hungry or gold diggers would be nice.
By Justin
June 12, 2006 09:54 AM | Link to this
No, Whiley, make the child support laws and child custody laws fair. In the event of a divorce, there is no winner take all. The real winner should be the children who have the active involvement of both parents in their life.
Joint legal and joint physical custody should be the norm if their is not a case of legitimate abuse and not the made up kind in order to gain an edge in the divorce and custody proceedings!
By Brian Curtis
June 12, 2006 09:57 AM | Link to this
Whiley, all I’m saying is that there can be some middle ground. Men can’t expect the exact same rights as a woman in an unwanted-pregnancy situation—but that doesn’t mean they should accept having NO rights whatsoever.
It’s not a zero-sum game. The woman can choose, 100% on her own, whether to continue or terminate the pregnancy. So why shouldn’t the man have some control over his level of involvement in the fallout from her decision?
Yes, everyone should be responsible for their own precautions. But accidents do happen. And in the rush to grant women maximum control over what happens to their bodies, it’s easy to take away all the rights of the OTHER party involved. That’s not an equitable approach, and recognizing some male-partner rights need not cut into the woman’s power of choice at all.
By Whiley
June 12, 2006 09:58 AM | Link to this
“No, the baby is already created. Its about whether she can physically, mentally, financially, and emotionally care for said baby.”
Well, that’s partially correct. It takes 9 months of feeding & growing the fetus inside your body. It can be dangerous to a lot of women, including emergency care, bed rest, sickness, risk of getting diabetes, which is a serious health risk that lasts a lifetime. There are all kinds of things that could happen. You could lose your job too. It could affect your ability to care of children you already have. Or you could be one of the lucky ones that can even go to the gym right up to birth. Yes, deciding if a woman can emotionally care for a baby is a huge decision. Look what happened to Andrea Yates.
By Jack
June 12, 2006 09:59 AM | Link to this
“control of the man, child, and control of the money.”
Exactly why they rule the world. LOL
By The72John
June 12, 2006 10:02 AM | Link to this
This should be an entertaining week…Whiley-the-man-hater -vs- Justin-the-woman-hater, with the Bible-Banger thrown in for good measure.
Good times, good times.
By Billy
June 12, 2006 10:02 AM | Link to this
Without condoms it’s almost 100% you’ll create a pregnancy.
Flat-out untrue. My wife and I used the whole “natural family planning” method for a few months and never got pregnant. Then, when we decided to try, she got pregnant right away. It’s about knowing when you can get pregnant.
Also, the failure rate when condoms are properly used is higher than 85%, I believe.
By Whiley
June 12, 2006 10:09 AM | Link to this
“But something to protect themselves from women who are either baby-hungry or gold diggers would be nice.”
Get a vasectomy, use a condom & destroy right after use. Don’t have sex with women you just met.
There.
“But, I can see Brian Curtis’ idea of a “buyout clause” as being somewhat viable.”
So you see no problem everybody else flipping the bills? My taxes are high enough thank you.
Justin, I agree child support should be better. Because I never had children & now I’m way past it being possible, thank goodness this will never be an issue for me. Divorce with children has always been a mess, it will always be a mess.
Each case should be treated differently. What a legal nightmare.
By Bruthaman
June 12, 2006 10:10 AM | Link to this
This is one of those topics that feed the Battle of the Sexes. Although, I agreed with Chuck that Gods Plan is the unlitmate answer. We all know that we don’t live in a perfect world and we need to search for alternatives. The problem will never be solved if we continue to rely on individuals to do the right thing. What needs to change is the CULTURE that we have created. We teach our boys that its OK for a man to sleep around and get as many women as he can, but we fail to educate him on his responsibilities when one of those women gets pregnant. On the flip side, we tell our girls that they should wait until marriage before becoming sexually active. But we also fail to educate them of how to protect themselves from pregnancy is they choose not to wait. These two things go hand in hand and are the basis for absentee farthers and unwanted pregnancies.
By Jack
June 12, 2006 10:10 AM | Link to this
You’re right John.
(and Billy to keep things stirred up)
By Amelia
June 12, 2006 10:14 AM | Link to this
As a woman, I have 100%, absolute, total control over whether or not I have sex with a man. As a woman I have complete knowledge of my birth control status or lack thereof. Knowing all of this and having made the decision to have sex using logic such as Whiley’s, I have put myself in a win win situation have I not? If I get pregnant I have absolute say over whether or not I have the child. And if I choose to have the child I get a check for the rest of my life from my partner, willing or not. So tell me Whiley. With me having all this control, do I bear no responsibility whatsoever for the outcome of my informed and concious choice?
By Whiley
June 12, 2006 10:14 AM | Link to this
“Men can’t expect the exact same rights as a woman in an unwanted-pregnancy situation—but that doesn’t mean they should accept having NO rights whatsoever.”
Well, they could decide to not have anything to actually do with the child. They aren’t obligated to help raise them except financially.
Taking care of, raising, cleaning up after, teaching, playing & loving a child is a lot more work than writing a check every month. They could opt out of that easily.
By The72John
June 12, 2006 10:21 AM | Link to this
Amelia, I believe you will find that, in Whiley-world, the flaw in your logic is the assumption that you made the choice to have sex.
In Whiley world, all sex is coercive; evil men force hapless women into sex and then laugh and twirl their mustaches as they abandon them to raise their children alone.
So you see, you didn’t choose to have sex, you only think you did. In reality, men use their nefarious powers of intimidation to force you to be their seed-incubators.
By Billy
June 12, 2006 10:21 AM | Link to this
Well, that’s partially correct.
You didn’t explain how it was partially incorrect…I know the pregnancy risks; my wife went through many of them. It was not a fun time, especially for her. That’s one of the huge reasons I’m pro-choice — because pregnancy can be so dangerous.
By Whiley
June 12, 2006 10:22 AM | Link to this
“So tell me Whiley. With me having all this control, do I bear no responsibility whatsoever for the outcome of my informed and conscious choice?”
I’d say if you are a single Mom trying to raise a baby on your own while working a full time job YOU ARE taking responsibility. The child support check you’ll more than likely get will probably barely cover your weekly day care costs.
It’s very expensive!
Accepting responsibility does not mean the father doesn’t need to do his part.
Birth control is the responsibility of BOTH PARTIES.
By Billy
June 12, 2006 10:23 AM | Link to this
Well, they could decide to not have anything to actually do with the child. They aren’t obligated to help raise them except financially. Taking care of, raising, cleaning up after, teaching, playing & loving a child is a lot more work than writing a check every month. They could opt out of that easily.
Isn’t that sort of like buying the cow and not drinking the milk?
By Billy
June 12, 2006 10:26 AM | Link to this
Get a vasectomy, use a condom & destroy right after use.
Right. Because the first thing you should do after sex is incinerate the condom.
I, personally, think it’s pretty funny — The man is at fault if the woman gets his used condom out of the trash and impregnates her, but the woman is not at fault if she wears a shirt that reads, “Look at my boobs,” and a guy sees her and says, “Nice boobs.” I mean, it’s a regular knee-slapper.
By Jack
June 12, 2006 10:27 AM | Link to this
“With me having all this control, do I bear no responsibility whatsoever for the outcome of my informed and concious choice?”
Yes. Don’t you have to raise the child? (BTW Great post Amelia.)
By Toad
June 12, 2006 10:29 AM | Link to this
Amelia, I don’t see why you think Whiley advocates “no responsibility whatsoever for the outcome of my informed and conscious choice.” As Whiley pointed out, raising the child involves a lot more than financial help. The custodial parent has to maintain a household large enough for a child, food, utilities, clothing, etc. I’m tired of the argument that the custodial parent gets to choose what she does with the child support payments. She’s still responsible for all the incidentals that increase with the number of persons in the home.
By Whiley
June 12, 2006 10:31 AM | Link to this
“Isn’t that sort of like buying the cow and not drinking the milk?”
lol ! YES !
By Jack
June 12, 2006 10:31 AM | Link to this
Give’um hell Whiley. :)
By Julia
June 12, 2006 10:32 AM | Link to this
Born without their consent??? What the crap is that about?
If you have sex you should know there is a chance you will create a pregnancy and then have to deal with that if and when it happens. Men and women take that chance when they have sex…just like they take a chance on getting a STD.
You take the chance by having sex so you should have to deal with any and all consequences that come up after the fact.
By the way, welcome back Chuck. How was the trip?
By Archie
June 12, 2006 10:32 AM | Link to this
I don’t have any problems with what Whiley posted at 10:14 am either. I really enjoy that playing and teaching and cleaning up after that Whiley describes in her 10:14 am post. Whiley I do know men that have had a vasectomy and I do know men that refuse,refuse to wear a condom. I do know women that have said the powder on a condom causes a reaction from their bodypart and some women don’t want men to use condoms because it “dries them out”. Men should be protected from fraud but other than that fellas we have to take the blame for what we did. If the lady does not want you to wear a condom then the next option for men is withdrawal. That’s a blunt to say and a hard thing to do but just as I told women last week, handle your business. I will not give men a pass because we know some women are schemers.
By kimberly
June 12, 2006 10:34 AM | Link to this
I’ve never known a woman who refused or objected to the use of a condom. That’s a guy thing. There are lots of things that can be “shared” besides fertile seed. What I’m wondering is, how can men blame women for either pregnancy or shared conditions, when they’re the ones that refuse to wrap it up? (Yes, I know they break sometimes… ‘specially if you’re GOOD. heehee!) BTW, if your answer starts with “Well, I thought that she [blah dee blah]” then I’m sorry, dude but you’re a few clowns short of a circus.
By Amelia
June 12, 2006 10:35 AM | Link to this
Well then Whiley. Once again knowing that I’m single and that any child support check that I get will only cover day care, why again would I make the choice to have sex and put myself in a position to endure this. And Whiley, if I slept with the right man I guarantee you that the check would more than adequetly cover day care. You are doing your best to absolve women from any responsibility whatsoever. I AM a woman. I know the variables. I am ultimately responsible for my decisions.
By Bruthaman
June 12, 2006 10:37 AM | Link to this
Would child support be better spent if the check was made payable to the utilities or mortgage company?
By Renee
June 12, 2006 10:37 AM | Link to this
It doesn’t surprise me that Whiley would have a field day with this topic as well. I think I told you last week, Whiley, that any validity in your points will be lost by your black and white, almost maniacal ideology.
Both adults lie down and have sex, therefore both parents (father included) should be responsible for the care of the child. However, nothing is in black and white. Women do underhanded things to entrap men, and in situations like this, when it can be proved, then that should be the womans responsibility. Although, I don’t see how a person, could find out they did conceive another life and not want to do anything for the child.
Somehow, men do need to be given more rights. However, what works against the good men, who do want rights and want to pay child support is the bad men, who make the babies and move on, leaving the woman with all the responsibility.
It comes down to the fact, that people are having sex without really knowing the person they are laying down thus creating lives and creating problems down the road. If you take the time, to actually know the person, you would find out maybe they aren’t the best person to have a child with (because a child is possible anytime you have sex, provided one person is not “fixed”). This goes for women who have sex with men who leave them once they get pregnant and for men who have entrapped in these situations.
John - your 10:02 is so true. Oh, no, that’s me patting your back again and trying to sleep with you. I must keep that under control.
By Whiley
June 12, 2006 10:38 AM | Link to this
Right. Because the first thing you should do after sex is incinerate the condom. I, personally, think it’s pretty funny — The man is at fault if the woman gets his used condom out of the trash and impregnates her,”
Well BILLY, apparently there are gangs of women doing this trapping men into child support payments. If this is such an issue why is it so laughable to flush your condom right after use? What do you do leave it on the bedside table for somebody else to clean up??? GROSS ! ! LOL
By Julia
June 12, 2006 10:39 AM | Link to this
a few clowns short of a circus.
Gee, sounds like some of my co-workers around here! LOL
j/k
By The72John
June 12, 2006 10:45 AM | Link to this
Well BILLY, apparently there are gangs of women doing this trapping men into child support payment
Yes, I hear they are competing with the gangs of gyrating, crotch-grabbing men for street-corner space.
By Tei
June 12, 2006 10:50 AM | Link to this
I think it’s quite laughable how so many people can sit there and act as if women get knocked up by men just to get money. There is no financial gain in being single parent getting child support. The money we get is not even enough to make a significant difference in our children’s care.
Unless a woman does have a child with a man who is a millionaire athelete or celebritity and is getting $10,000 a month child support payments, there is nothing to be gained financially from getting child suppport from a man, especially being the custodial parent.
I am speaking as a single mother who was married to the child’s father. He owes me $60,000 in back child support and tries to come up with every excuse as to why he doesn’t owe it to me when the law says that he does. It’s not about getting money to spend on clothes or nonsense, it’s about getting support to feed, clothe and get medical care for the child.
For example, I know a woman who gets $60 a week in child support for her son, which comes out to $240 per month. She is the custodial parent, and as such, she is buying food, paying mortgage, utilities, buying clothing, paying healthcare, schoole expenses, etc. for her child.
Can someone please explain to me how getting $240 a month in child support is cashing in when you are paying over well over $1000 a month to support a child? Supporting a child is more than just buying food an clothes. If you have small children day care alone is $85 a week on the cheap end. Most of us are paying nearly $1000 per month just to have day care so we can work. Most of our money is being spend on child care with leaves us with barely anything left to feed and clothe our children.
When my ex was paying child support, he was also only paying $240 and he told me it was too much and wanted to have it reduced. At the time our child was an infant and I had to work. Her daycare alone was $500 per month. The $240 only covered half her daycare expenses. That didn’t inlcude food, diapers, clothing, rent, utilities, healthcare and other expenses I have to pay not for my own, but for her survival as well.
I don’t mean to veer to far off topic here, but as a struggling single parent who was getting child support at one time, the money that we get is not even enough to cover half the child’s expenses, much less enough for us to “cash in on” and buy frivolous things. I just want to make it clear that there is no financial gain in havhig a child or getting child support, it is a financial burden. So don’t fool yourselves into thinking that it is because it’s just not true.
While there may be somen women out there who spend their children’s money in not the best way, most of us are just trying to make it and get the support our kids need to survive. Most single mother live in poverty with their children because the fathers do not want to help support the children they helped make. It’s not about the mother, it’s about what the children need.
That fact that women are constantly blamed or accused of trying to profit just shows that misogyny is alive and well in our society. And I think it’s rather pathetic that while there are laws to punish women who abandon their children, there are no laws to punish men for the same thing.
No man should be able to walk away from their emotional and financial responsibility of the child regardless of the cicurmstances or if the child was wanted. There are mabt women who didn’t want children before they were conceived, but once it happened, they accepted the responsiblity and love and provide for the children. Men don’t seem to have it in them to do that.
Yes we have sex for the sake of fun and pleasure, but the bottom line is this: the main purpose of sex is to reproduce and if you don’t want that responsibility, then you should be protecting yourself, male or female, or you just shouldn’t be having sex.
By GOB
June 12, 2006 10:50 AM | Link to this
Because the first thing you should do after sex is incinerate the condom.
I knew that incinerator I bought last winter would come in handy sometime…
By Ren
June 12, 2006 10:52 AM | Link to this
I think it’s quite laughable how so many people can sit there and act as if women get knocked up by men just to get money. There is no financial gain in being single parent getting child support. The money we get is not even enough to make a significant difference in our children’s care.
Unless a woman does have a child with a man who is a millionaire athelete or celebritity and is getting $10,000 a month child support payments, there is nothing to be gained financially from getting child suppport from a man, especially being the custodial parent.
I am speaking as a single mother who was married to the child’s father. He owes me $60,000 in back child support and tries to come up with every excuse as to why he doesn’t owe it to me when the law says that he does. It’s not about getting money to spend on clothes or nonsense, it’s about getting support to feed, clothe and get medical care for the child.
For example, I know a woman who gets $60 a week in child support for her son, which comes out to $240 per month. She is the custodial parent, and as such, she is buying food, paying mortgage, utilities, buying clothing, paying healthcare, schoole expenses, etc. for her child.
Can someone please explain to me how getting $240 a month in child support is cashing in when you are paying over well over $1000 a month to support a child? Supporting a child is more than just buying food an clothes. If you have small children day care alone is $85 a week on the cheap end. Most of us are paying nearly $1000 per month just to have day care so we can work. Most of our money is being spend on child care with leaves us with barely anything left to feed and clothe our children.
When my ex was paying child support, he was also only paying $240 and he told me it was too much and wanted to have it reduced. At the time our child was an infant and I had to work. Her daycare alone was $500 per month. The $240 only covered half her daycare expenses. That didn’t inlcude food, diapers, clothing, rent, utilities, healthcare and other expenses I have to pay not for my own, but for her survival as well.
I don’t mean to veer to far off topic here, but as a struggling single parent who was getting child support at one time, the money that we get is not even enough to cover half the child’s expenses, much less enough for us to “cash in on” and buy frivolous things. I just want to make it clear that there is no financial gain in havhig a child or getting child support, it is a financial burden. So don’t fool yourselves into thinking that it is because it’s just not true.
While there may be somen women out there who spend their children’s money in not the best way, most of us are just trying to make it and get the support our kids need to survive. Most single mother live in poverty with their children because the fathers do not want to help support the children they helped make. It’s not about the mother, it’s about what the children need.
That fact that women are constantly blamed or accused of trying to profit just shows that misogyny is alive and well in our society. And I think it’s rather pathetic that while there are laws to punish women who abandon their children, there are no laws to punish men for the same thing.
No man should be able to walk away from their emotional and financial responsibility of the child regardless of the cicurmstances or if the child was wanted. There are mabt women who didn’t want children before they were conceived, but once it happened, they accepted the responsiblity and love and provide for the children. Men don’t seem to have it in them to do that.
Yes we have sex for the sake of fun and pleasure, but the bottom line is this: the main purpose of sex is to reproduce and if you don’t want that responsibility, then you should be protecting yourself, male or female, or you just shouldn’t be having sex.
By Billy
June 12, 2006 10:54 AM | Link to this
Well BILLY, apparently there are gangs of women doing this trapping men into child support payments. If this is such an issue why is it so laughable to flush your condom right after use?
How does that logic not apply to showing sideboob in public? If someone can just flop her tig ol bitties around and not expect someone to comment or even look, then shouldn’t I be able to just throw my condom in the trash and expect the woman not to go dig it out of the trash and use it to impregnate herself? And I doubt fluching is great for the sewer; I know it’s not ideal for a septic tank…
By Jack
June 12, 2006 10:56 AM | Link to this
Because the first thing you should do after sex is incinerate the condom.
They can’t be flushed? Kinda hard to retrieve if that was done.
By Billy
June 12, 2006 10:56 AM | Link to this
Well BILLY, apparently there are gangs of women doing this trapping men into child support payment
Yes, I hear they are competing with the gangs of gyrating, crotch-grabbing men for street-corner space.
Aww, you beat me to it!
By Archie
June 12, 2006 10:56 AM | Link to this
I think some of the guys are still angry at Whiley from last week because she has not said anything crazy here today. Kimberly,yes there are women who don’t like a condoms and in that situation the guy having sex with her will have to withdraw. That’s risky but again he knows what can happen. Dishonesty and fraud are one thing but some of us guys just don’t want to put that condom on and we don’t want to withdraw and some of us men think everything will be okay just because we want it to be that way,well, no sir life’s not like that.
By Amelia
June 12, 2006 10:59 AM | Link to this
So let me get this straight. I have control over my own body to the point that I am the sole determiner as to whether I have an abortion or not. I have total control over whether or not I have sex. But when I get pregnant in the course of an act that I totally have control over, a man has to bail me out financially for the rest of his life because of my choice. Is that how it works? Talk about having my cake and eating it too. It sure is nice to have the deck stacked in ones favor when it comes to the consequences of ones actions, is it not?
By The72John
June 12, 2006 11:08 AM | Link to this
Oh, just wait Archie. The sane veneer will soon fall away and she’ll be back to her banshee-ravings once more.
Tei/Ren - whatever your handle is - brilliantly said.
By Billy
June 12, 2006 11:09 AM | Link to this
That fact that women are constantly blamed or accused of trying to profit just shows that misogyny is alive and well in our society.
Where were you last week when all men were accused of being rapists?
And I think it’s rather pathetic that while there are laws to punish women who abandon their children, there are no laws to punish men for the same thing.
Women can get abortions. Women can drop their infant off at a hospital no questions asked in many places. And men can be punished for being deadbeat dads.
By kimberly
June 12, 2006 11:11 AM | Link to this
..a man has to bail me out financially for the rest of his life because of my choice. Is that how it works?
Only in fairy tales, Hon. Not anywhere that I’ve ever been. The words “He should…” or “She shouldn’t….” have no actual bearing on the truth. There are lots of “fairy tales” we were raised on that have no resemblence to reality. The quicker we figure that out, the better we’ll all be.
By Lyrazel
June 12, 2006 11:12 AM | Link to this
Suppose you (man) were loyal and faithful to your lady but it did not last. When she said it was yours you paid child support without question. One day you receive notice your child is not yours and she is pursuing someone else for back child support. Are you entitled to get that child-support back because the child is not yours?
What about women who deceive husbands accidentally having children by other men? Is husband under any obligation to pay for the upbringing of the child or is the accidental father of the child responsible?
What about if you are a lesbian and your partner gets pregnant like you both wanted. The relationship tanks. Are you responsible for child support or does that law that prevents gay marriage actually negate you from financial responsibility for her children?
In all that is said and done its a sad case of how to ruin a childs life…
By Julia
June 12, 2006 11:16 AM | Link to this
Amelia, oh yes, the deck was totally stacked in my favor when I became a single mom not getting squat in child support. Like the poster mentioned above-single parents don’t get squat when it comes to what’s needed to actually provide for their child. Daycare for me is $600 per month and child support covers about half and that’s all.
I won’t go into all the details but let’s just say the courts were stacked in his favor.
Yeah, men have it rough…create a child and then walk away as if the child doesn’t even exist. But the poor thing has to pay big bad ME a whopping $300 a month. It’s a wonder the poor guy making $70,000 a year can still afford to eat!!!
Morning Whiley! :)
By Billy
June 12, 2006 11:25 AM | Link to this
Julia — your case sounds bad. But what of the man making $25K a year? How much should he have to shell out? I realize that it doesn’t cover all the expenses, and in your case it sounds like he should be paying more. But for someone making even half what he does, that payment starts looking bigger and bigger…
By Toad
June 12, 2006 11:28 AM | Link to this
“What about if you are a lesbian and your partner gets pregnant like you both wanted. The relationship tanks. Are you responsible for child support or does that law that prevents gay marriage actually negate you from financial responsibility for her children?”
This is off topic, but protecting children would be one benefit of gay marriage. I’ve known lesbians who were completely shut off from having visitation privileges with a child when the parents broke up simply because the birth mother has all the rights to the child and the other parent has no parental rights. This is horrible for the child who often has a strong bond with the non-biological mother.
By Amelia
June 12, 2006 11:30 AM | Link to this
Back to control and having your cake and eating it too. I can have sex with the handyman and choose abortion because it just isn’t worth the trouble for the 60.00 a week I will probably get. But if I sleep with Donald Trump I can choose to have the child and live in the lap of luxury for the rest of my life. I just don’t see how someone else should be held accountable for something that I so totally control. Furthermore, having to have someone else bear responsibility for our decisions is demeaning in that it says that we are incapable of bearing that responsibility. Unless you buy into the mindset that makes the woman a victim in any negative dealing that she has with a man.
By Billy
June 12, 2006 11:33 AM | Link to this
Lyrazel — good points at 11:12.
Did everyone here realize that in Georgia the husband is automatically entered as the father of a child at the time his wife gives birth? Even if she was pregant when you met her, you’re still the father. Even if she was raped when you were out of the country, you’re the father. Just throwing that out there…
By The72John
June 12, 2006 11:36 AM | Link to this
but protecting children would be one benefit of gay marriage
Oh, now you’ve gone and done it. Don’t you know that the current “We promise it has nothing to do with religion even though we’re all fundamentalist Christians who hate gays” argument of the Religious Right is that they are opposing gay marriage because it is so damaging to the children not to have a mom and a dad?
Any moment now, Chuck is going to swing in with his sanctimonious BS about God and how gays are all sick twisted garbage that don’t deserve to even be around children, much less raise them.
By Julia
June 12, 2006 11:37 AM | Link to this
Billy-I don’t know how much he should have to pay on $25K a year. I just know that parenting is about so much more than money. He contributes zero as far as his time. He doesn’t even have to take 2 minutes to write a check since it comes out through his employer. The burden for everything falls on me.
When one person walks away from their parenting responsibility the child and the custodial parent suffer big time.
Some things a check won’t fix…but it’s better than NOTHING at all I guess.
By Jack
June 12, 2006 11:38 AM | Link to this
Not the side-boob again. Please….
Being Catholic, our priest counceled us before we were married. Since Catholics are not supposed to use birth control, he suggested the rhythm method. He then laughed and said his parents had 6 children using that method. We had our 2, then snip, snip. Praise the Lord.
By Julia
June 12, 2006 11:43 AM | Link to this
Amelia-last time I checked it still takes two to create a baby. The women don’t get pregnant without the help of a man. So, (stay with me now), both the man and the woman that created the child are legally responsible for that child. (It’s not such a difficult concept really.)
I guess you’d like to make a law stating that all men are free from paying child support unless the man makes over $500,000 a year.
Good grief.
By Anonymous
June 12, 2006 11:46 AM | Link to this
Ren/Tei— I cannot think of NO better reasons FOR birth control than the possibility of BECOMING a single parent. Its not a luxury life, it has no safeguards, true but who is responsible before the child was created? It is only after the child is created that the league of single women begins their fierce battle cries and tearful stories of making ends meet and the woes of having no one to financially help them out!—and regardless of the reason these unmarried deadbeat dads dont pay enough—they were studs good enough to be used sexually for pleasure once. Single mothers have thousands of mantras to rally for their cause… but maybe the culture of sex just for the pleasure of sex creates the deadbeat dad…and the struggling single mother in the same uncaring stroke.
By Renee
June 12, 2006 11:48 AM | Link to this
Amelia excellent 11:30
By Julia
June 12, 2006 11:48 AM | Link to this
And for the record, not all women believe in abortion so that’s not an option for alot of women.
By Brian Curtis
June 12, 2006 11:53 AM | Link to this
Julia, the problem isn’t exactly how much money is involved, OR how much contact the man has in the child’s life. Those are important, but they’re not at the core of the justice/fairness issue.
The problem is that the decision whether or not the child even EXISTS is solely, 100% in one person’s hands. The other has NO say in the matter, and must live whatever the woman decides. If she aborts and he wanted to be a father, too bad; if she brings it to term and wants money from him for the next 18 years, again too bad. Her options: All. His options: None.
Can anyone reasonably say that’s an example of justice in action? Or, as I’ve already asked, is it possible to have some compromise in between, where each party has at least SOME rights to affect their own situation?
By Amelia
June 12, 2006 11:54 AM | Link to this
Julia when 2 people agree to have a child I see dual obligation. When 2 people are married and have children and divorce I see dual obligation. But for the life of me I cannot see how a person that has total and absolute control of the sex act itself, knows her birth control status,and knows that there is the risk of pregnancy and chooses to have sex anyway can expect someone else to be responsible for the result of that concious decision. You have total control, you should be totally responsible. Or maybe you are saying that women are not capable of bearing responsibility for making good decisions and that we need men to ultimately take care of us.
By Chrissa
June 12, 2006 11:56 AM | Link to this
As a single mom, I actually tend to side with men being able to option out. If the woman chooses to raise the child on her own, then she has no rights to seek financial support. I could have given my child up for adoption, but alone made the choice to keep her. The only way that my daughter is lossing out, is b/c she does not have a strong male rolemodel, a dad, to help raise her, which I long ago realized is what she would need more than his money. His money may help make life a little easier, but with so many women depending on child support and not getting it on time and then falling behind on their bills, I’d just rather not have that problem.
By Renee
June 12, 2006 11:59 AM | Link to this
Julia it does take two to make a baby. I understand exactly where you are coming from. My daughter’s father or (baby daddy lol) has his child support garnished, which I remind him all the time, is not the same as paying. He has to pay me a little over $700 monthly, which he finds extremely unfair. Even with child support, though, he has still bought a house, several cars, etc. With everything I went through to get child support (which I didn’t take to court until she was 8), you would think I would be a little more bitter towards men.
Actually, Amelia does bring up a point. A woman can choose to terminate the pregnancy depending on who she wants to father her baby. Now, I know you have heard of groupies. There are women who target basketball players, rappers, etc, with the sole purpose of getting pregnant. And, yes they father the baby, they should have to take care of it, but women do this because it’s a gold mine.
By Billy
June 12, 2006 12:02 PM | Link to this
I guess you’d like to make a law stating that all men are free from paying child support unless the man makes over $500,000 a year.
I wouldn’t say that, but I don’t think child support should be used as a punitive measure.
By Justin
June 12, 2006 12:04 PM | Link to this
Whiley, we actually agree on something…Divorce, child custody and child support is a legal nightmare!
Your post… Justin, I agree child support should be better. Because I never had children & now I’m way past it being possible, thank goodness this will never be an issue for me. Divorce with children has always been a mess, it will always be a mess.
Each case should be treated differently. What a legal nightmare.
=====
Julia, did you get divorced in Georgia? Because any man making $70,000 in Georgia would pay 17-23% of his gross income in child support for “one” child. That would be $992-$1341. This is why so many complain in Georgia because the child support is so much higher than in other states. Plus, he is most likely ordered to cover the children’s medical and dental insurance and half of all non-covered medical expenses. Also, if a man loses his job, the judge is less likely to modify the child support to reflect his current income or the income of his new job. Many good fathers go into arrears this way.
By Amelia
June 12, 2006 12:07 PM | Link to this
No Julia. I am saying that when total control of that situation ultimately rests with you, that you should not expect someone else to be responsible for YOUR decision. You ultimately are the one that chooses to spread em. If you are not in a position to accept responsibility for your decision, make better choices. Women have fought for years to be empowered and free of the shackles of dependence on men. Yet women still are unwilling to accept the obligations that come with that empowerment. Before you get on your back maybe you should consider whether or not you are woman enough to deal with the outcome. Or do you need a man to do that for you.
By kimberly
June 12, 2006 12:07 PM | Link to this
Amelia, where is the MAN in your argument? The man has ABSOLUTE control over his decision to wrap it up or deliver the package directly. That he should risk handing over his entire financial future to a woman he may or may not love or trust, is INSANE. “But I thought she….” B-LLSH-T! Do you really really trust that she’s not fertile? Do you really really trust that no one has been there before you? Trojan makes one in your size, Dude!
BTW, A, I don’t know who you’ve been with, but I’ve never felt 100% in control of ANY such enounter… EVER. Hahaha!
By For the Rights of Men and Women
June 12, 2006 12:17 PM | Link to this
I am sorry, if women have the right to have an abortion and kill the child, then women have the right to have a child when the man didn’t want it and she KNEW he did not want any children and she purposely had a child then NO he should not have to pay you anything. You play just like men do and I get sick of men having to pay just because the woman gets a wild hair up her butt and wants to screw the man. I know they are not without fault of their own, but listen, if you take the life he wanted out of his hands and then you take the life he didn’t want and place it in his hands then no wonder more men don’t want children.
By Justin
June 12, 2006 12:19 PM | Link to this
Most good fathers do not complain about paying child support as long as it reflects the needs of the child and they are not stripped of the right to be in the child’s life as a parent.
Many fathers resent the fact the mother is automatically given custody of the children and the father is seen as just someone who sends a check. We all know the statistics for children who don’t have an involved father figure.
I tell the young men in my family all the time to be very careful and don’t cave into promiscuity. Young girls now are not the young girls of my day.
By Mara
June 12, 2006 12:23 PM | Link to this
Amelia - *But when I get pregnant in the course of an act that I totally have control over, a man has to bail me out financially for the rest of his life because of my choice.”
Nope. He isn’t “bailing you out” nor does it last “his entire life”. He’s meeting his financial obligation to his child and the obligation normally doesn’t last much beyond the childs 18th b-day, or college. Probably depends on the support decree…
I have to say that I’m in agreement with Brain’s idea regarding the opt-out clause. I also (surprisingly) agree with Justin that the family courts tend to prefer to give custody to anyone except the father. However, custody shouldn’t be left to the flip of a coin. It should go to the parent who, according to an unbiased source, provide the most nurturing environment.
Of course, this is coming from someone who neither has nor wants children…
By Billy
June 12, 2006 12:23 PM | Link to this
Kim — What if said Trojan fails? What if it breaks and the woman has the chance to get Plan B but chooses not to? What if she poked holes in the condom to begin with?
How is it fair that if a guy lies to a girl and gets her pregnant, we force him to pay child support if possible, but if a girl lies to a guy and gets pregnant, we…force him to pay child support if possible? How is that equality in any sense?
By Amelia
June 12, 2006 12:26 PM | Link to this
Kimberly the man is probably standing in front of a judge taking responsibility for a child he never wanted because you are not woman enough to accept the consequences of an act that you had total control over. It is your body. Women have fought for the right to control their bodies for years and then some of them turn right around and argue that someone else should be responsible when they prove incapable of accepting the responsibility that comes with that control. Unless you are one of those women that HAVE to accept responsibility for YOUR decisions.
By JAMES
June 12, 2006 12:26 PM | Link to this
julia—on $25K per year for one child he should be paying between $163.46 and $221.15 per check (if he get paid bi-weekly).
By JAMES
June 12, 2006 12:27 PM | Link to this
julia—on $25K per year for one child he should be paying between $163.46 and $221.15 per check (if he get paid bi-weekly).
By JAMES
June 12, 2006 12:27 PM | Link to this
julia—on $25K per year for one child he should be paying between $163.46 and $221.15 per check (if he get paid bi-weekly).
By Mara
June 12, 2006 12:29 PM | Link to this
Brain=Brian btw (freudian slip? LOL!!!)
By Whatever
June 12, 2006 12:30 PM | Link to this
Look, if a woman has a right to say she doesn’t want a child and the man wants it and she aborts, sorry if the man doesn’t want the child and the woman KNOWS he doesn’t want a child and she gets pregnant without his knowledge. No he should not have to pay anything. A woman plays just like a man does and she will screw a man just like a man screws her just to get what they want. You play you pay. She knows how to use condoms, pills just like everyone is putting it on the man. Oh before anyone sits there and says I am just a male blowing smoke, I am not. I am female and I do have children.
By Justin
June 12, 2006 12:31 PM | Link to this
Tei, you stated…
And I think it’s rather pathetic that while there are laws to punish women who abandon their children, there are no laws to punish men for the same thing.
=====
If a man is thirty days late with his child support, he is in contempt of court. Offenses for being late include having any licenses pulled (i.e., Driver’s, CDL, Dental, Broker, etc.) and then he can ultimately be jailed. In fact, there are some fathers who are in jail now not because they are deadbeats but because they are deadbroke. Their child support was set at a much higher level than they could afford. So, instead of setting their child support at an affordable level so the child will get money, the courts would rather the child go on state assistance, take the father’s ability to earn a living, and make taxpayers pay for his incarceration. The laws need retooling to encourage fathers to pay and to encourage mother to allow the father to play an active role in their children’s lives. The winner takes all in family court causes a lot of resentment. The courts can’t make people like each other, but they can do a lot to prevent much of the animosity.
By Whiley
June 12, 2006 12:38 PM | Link to this
For the Rights of Men and Women :
If men didn’t leave their sperm all over the place they would never ever become “victims” of those horrible women you say are breeding out of control to get that $300 per month.
By Justin
June 12, 2006 12:38 PM | Link to this
Ren, since you are having a hard time financially supporting your child, would you allow your child to live with the father if he could handle everything?
By Whiley
June 12, 2006 12:39 PM | Link to this
Why is it when women enjoy an active sex life (meaning even if it’s just with one person) they are the only ones responsible if a pregnancy happens?
“Young girls now are not the young girls of my day.”
Meaning, they now enjoy sex more. They aren’t made to feel like whores for engaging in the same act as men without shame. (well, not as much). Young girls today don’t have to sit back & wait for someone to come along, they go get what they want themselves. I would think that would be a good thing.
Young girls today have the benefit of birth control, even though so many religious freaks want to keep it from them. (if they can’t get birth control they won’t have “gasp !” SEX !)
Girls today are so much better off with the sexual freedom they have. It’s a little misguided as far as teaching them sex= girl power & freedom. It’s freedom from living a life constantly pregnant or never truly enjoying sex due to fear of pregnancy. Birth control & those who are properly taught how to use it enjoy sexual freedom that is far better than being opressed & made to feel bad about yourself.
By Justin
June 12, 2006 12:46 PM | Link to this
If the man doesn’t agree to being a father he should try to terminate his Parental Rights.
By Monica
June 12, 2006 12:48 PM | Link to this
I’d like to echo Brian’s sentiments from 8:39: Shaunti’s stance is unsurprising, but Diane’s is startling. She actually resorts to the lame argument of “You made your choice when you decided to have sex.” The irony, of course, is that this was the exact same argument used by anti-choice advocates when women were first fighting for reproductive rights.
Life would be easier if people waited until they were married to have sex. Yeah, I know, fat chance!
I had a co-worker who had a great plan: sterliize everyone when they are born, and then if people want to have children, they have to pay to have the procedure reversed. Abortion would be a non-issue. Stealing sperm would be ineffective. Before y’all crucify me on this one, please understand that I know this could never happen!
Maybe next week we can have a topic that won’t engage a gender war like the last two have.
By Billy
June 12, 2006 12:48 PM | Link to this
Whiley, I’d agree with most of your 12:39 post were it not for the impression you continually give that you think any man wanting to sleep with a woman equates to sexual assault.
I agree that girls are better off than they used to be. I think what Justin was saying was that sometimes when girls “go get what they want themselves” they go get pregnant, because that equals a child support check and, often welfare. While I love the idea of a woman “going and getting” me, sexually speaking, if she wants me, a woman who would use me to purposefully impregnate herself so that she could take me for child support is a violation, probably the closest thing to rape a man can endure without actually being anally violated.
By Monica
June 12, 2006 12:51 PM | Link to this
Do you really really trust that she’s not fertile? Do you really really trust that no one has been there before you? Trojan makes one in your size, Dude!
How can you have sex with someone you don’t “really really trust?” Just curious.
By kimberly
June 12, 2006 12:52 PM | Link to this
Amelia, I HAVE accepted responsibility for MY actions, gurrlfriend, so I don’t know where YOUR nasty attitude comes from. I was just curious as to why you’re taking one side of a two-sided issue. But please don’t bother to answer; I’m weary of your “women are opportunistic whores but men are without sin” undercurrent. Each of us KNOWS what we are, now don’t we?
CLEARLY, there are several people posting on this board today who should NOT be having sex with anyone! Hahahaha! Stay home alone with your bitterness. Really! Just my opinion. (By the way, “ultrafit” is the marketing term for the smaller-sized condom.) Hahaha!
By The72John
June 12, 2006 12:57 PM | Link to this
If men didn’t leave their sperm all over the place they would never ever become “victims” of those horrible women you say are breeding out of control to get that $300 per month
By this logic, the same could be said of the women spreading their legs to receive said sperm. No one made them have sex, after all.
Oh never mind. I keep forgetting about the WhileyWorld laws stating that only men are responsible for having sex.
By Jack
June 12, 2006 01:02 PM | Link to this
Hi Sweet Thing. :)
Not too qualified for this topic. I’ll just throw in a smart a—-d comment here and there.
By Whiley
June 12, 2006 01:04 PM | Link to this
“Whiley, I’d agree with most of your 12:39 post were it not for the impression you continually give that you think any man wanting to sleep with a woman equates to sexual assault.”
uh, i’ve never said that. As much sex i’ve had in my life time are you kidding me? All right most of that was a while ago but it still counts. lol !
What I said was unwanted vulgar verbal abuse is a form of sexual assault. I think so anyway.
By Billy
June 12, 2006 01:09 PM | Link to this
You’re right, Whiley. I should have said that if a man asks a woman to have sex with him and she says no, then it’s rape.
By Whiley
June 12, 2006 01:12 PM | Link to this
“Oh never mind. I keep forgetting about the WhileyWorld laws stating that only men are responsible for having sex.”
What? Stop being a smartAZZ. It takes two people to have sex. Well, most of the time anyway. LOL
Trust me when I say women take most of the burden when sex occurs. Particularly in the moment she’s in the stirrups pushing out a baby for 7 hours.
By The72John
June 12, 2006 01:14 PM | Link to this
uh, i’ve never said that. As much sex i’ve had in my life time are you kidding me? All right most of that was a while ago but it still counts. lol
It doesn’t count when batteries are required.
By kimberly
June 12, 2006 01:14 PM | Link to this
Heyyyyyy Jack. Yep, honorable men like you handle their bizniss. Your wife and sons are lucky to have you in this world full of greed, hate, selfishness, and nasty blog posters.
By Whiley
June 12, 2006 01:17 PM | Link to this
“I should have said that if a man asks a woman to have sex with him and she says no, then it’s rape.”
If that was truly the case Billy, then you’d be currently blogging from prison.
By Amelia
June 12, 2006 01:19 PM | Link to this
Kimberly, my last remark comes totally in regard to your statement “where is the man”. Nowhere in any of my comments today have I said that women are opportunistic whores. But I have said that women should be and ought to be able to deal with the consequences of a situation that she had absolute yes/no power over to begin with. If we are not capable of that in any way…emotionally, finacially, whatever, maybe we should start saying no. Nobody throws us onto our back. No one forces our legs apart and pentrates us without our permission. If we are not capable of dealing with the consequences of our actions maybe we should not be having sex.
By Truth Fairy
June 12, 2006 01:23 PM | Link to this
Nobody throws us onto our back. No one forces our legs apart and pentrates us without our permission.
What’s the weather like on YOUR planet?
By Julia
June 12, 2006 01:23 PM | Link to this
The problem is that the decision whether or not the child even EXISTS is solely, 100% in one person’s hands.
Brian Curtis-this is where you and I disagree. The child in my opinion exists from the moment it is CONCEIVED. And abortion-the legal right to end that child’s life-should not be legal in my opinion. If it was illegal then your question would be pointless and both parties would be responsible since they had sex.
By The72John
June 12, 2006 01:27 PM | Link to this
What? Stop being a smartAZZ. It takes two people to have sex. Well, most of the time anyway. LOL
If anyone unfamilliar would like to see evidence to the contrary, please refer to last week’s discussion where Whiley’s opinions about who wants sex and who doesn’t were clearly delineated.
By Whiley
June 12, 2006 01:31 PM | Link to this
Oh barf Amelia.
How about telling men they should be mastrBaiting instead? I’m so tired of hearing “keep your legs closed.”
“If we are not capable of dealing with the consequences of our actions maybe we should not be having sex. “
What are you a church lady or something? There’s nothing irresponsible about having sex. Until birth control & all abortion rights are ripped away, those are all good options for all people so we can actually enjoy sex without having to birth something out every 9 months & men aren’t burdened with supporting 20 kids.
If women don’t want to be single mothers, use birth control & get a legal abortion.
If men don’t want to be single fathers, use your own birth control or get surgery.
What’s the big deal here?
By Amelia
June 12, 2006 01:33 PM | Link to this
Julia in response to your last comment. On the planet I am from and your legs are forced apart and we are forcefully penetrated it is called RAPE. And the man will be held responsible to the tune of 25 to life. If you are having sex like that on your planet and considering it normal you need help. Or do you just see yourself as a victim after every sexual encounter. Does the man MAKE you do it?
By kimberly
June 12, 2006 01:34 PM | Link to this
Amelia, perhaps you missed my point: Taking our personal opinions out of it, look at the logic. A certain percentage of women will indeed be sticklers for their own birth control and its correct, consistent usage. A certain percentage of THOSE women will experience unintended BC failure. A certain percentage will be very careful sometimes, and less careful other times. Then, a certain percentage of women actually DO get knocked up on purpose, or deceitfully. Do you agree?
My point is that every sexually-active man should be aware of these realities, and protect himself accordingly, until HE is sure of his love and ready to reproduce. LOGIC.
By Whiley
June 12, 2006 01:38 PM | Link to this
“it doesn’t count when batteries are required.”
lol !
“Whiley’s opinions about who wants sex and who doesn’t were clearly delineated.”
I’m so glad I have a man to decide what I should think is appropriate behavior & what is not. I need a man to tell me when I should or should not be offended or made afraid or on guard. Thank you thank you kind sir.
By Archie
June 12, 2006 01:40 PM | Link to this
“Actually, Amelia does bring up a point. A woman can choose to terminate the pregnancy depending on who she wants to father her baby. Now, I know you have heard of groupies. There are women who target basketball players, rappers, etc, with the sole purpose of getting pregnant. And, yes they father the baby, they should have to take care of it, but women do this because it’s a gold mine.”
There was a segment about this on HBO on a sports show hosted by Bryant Gumbel. I think I said last week that men and women try to “get over” on each other and that HBO show had actual women on camera talking about the games they play but I still that as a man since we don’t like to use condoms we suffer the consequences. I don’t think we need too many opt-out options for us men because then men would simply say they were tricked and use the legal opt-out option to get out of paying money. Women do take most of the burden when pregnancy occurs and that’s not a battle of the sexes statement it’s true. My issue with women is the choices that they make when it comes to choosing men. Jerks can get with multiple women but a gentleman has to show that he has some jerk in him. In the Kobe situation guess what, he didn’t wear a condom. In the Brad Pitt situation he didn’t wear a condom and he was married to someone else. Men do need more rights but fellas we got to take the responsibility for birth control. You might like what Whiley has said but she has been rational and quite logical. As for last week’s topic I did see some low-cut blouses last weekend but no one was inappropiately dressed as I went to a sports bar to watch a fight. I thought about this blog as I ventured out but heck,as men some of us don’t wear our wedding ring so I know some of us just want to play without paying…
By Julia
June 12, 2006 01:41 PM | Link to this
Before you get on your back maybe you should consider whether or not you are woman enough to deal with the outcome. Or do you need a man to do that for you.
Amelia-again, it takes TWO people having sex to create a child…not ONE, but TWO. Two people responsible-not just one (the woman).
By your way of thinking men can sleep around without a care because they say they don’t want kids so then they won’t have to be responsible if one is created by his sperm.
I’m totally with Kimberly on this!
By Julia
June 12, 2006 01:45 PM | Link to this
Justin-No it was figured in the state my son’s father moved to since they have “jurisdiction” over him. I tried to get it in GA courts since this is where my son lives but the Child Support Agency said it couldn’t be done.
I couldn’t even afford to travel with my baby several states away and they made it seem like I couldn’t be bothered to show up for court. (Where as he only had to travel 10 minutes from his new house to go to court.)
By The72John
June 12, 2006 01:46 PM | Link to this
I’m so glad I have a man to decide what I should think is appropriate behavior & what is not. I need a man to tell me when I should or should not be offended or made afraid or on guard. Thank you thank you kind sir
If you really think that is what you said last week, then you need to work on your writing skills.
By Billy
June 12, 2006 01:46 PM | Link to this
What’s the weather like on YOUR planet?
True, rapes occur, but when they do I doubt child support is at the top of the victim’s list of priorities…How is the guy going to pay from prison? I think Amelia is specifically talking about consensual sex. I also think you can easily infer this from her posts.
Barring rape, you have control of your choices. If you choose to have sex with a man, that is your choice. If you do not use protection or your protection fails, you have the choice to get the morning after pill. If you choose not to do so, you still have the choice to get an abortion. If you choose not to have an abortion, you can still choose to give the child up for adoption. From the moment the semen leaves the man’s body, the ball is in your court. You have ample opportunity to prevent/end the pregnancy.
By Amelia
June 12, 2006 01:47 PM | Link to this
While you have good points here Kimberly, knowing that these things occur and knowing whether or not we are financially, emotionally, whatever able to support a child, maybe women should excercise their prerogative to say no. Whether women want to admit it or not, when one has yes/no say so and says yes…they just took full responsibility and should know how to accept it.
And Whiley, keep your legs closed if you can’t deal with the consequences of your decision to have sex. Also Whiley. If men should masturbate more often maybe you should visit your local “self help” store. Save you, the man, and a child from having to live with the consequences of YOUR decision to have sex.
By Julia
June 12, 2006 01:49 PM | Link to this
Julia in response to your last comment. On the planet I am from…
Amelia-hold on a minute.I did not make the post about “what planet are you from”. Wasn’t me dear.
By Amelia
June 12, 2006 02:00 PM | Link to this
No matter how you spin it Julia, you had the power to say yes or no. You know going in what your situation is. If you cannot handle the responsibility or the consequence don’t do it. Sex is not some entitlement that comes with no consequence. It is not the man that is the vessel for the child. It is the woman. And when the woman has yes/no power and total control of her body. She knows the stakes. She has the prerogative not to do it and create an unwanted pregnancy for either party. Sorry about the planet mix up.
By Julia
June 12, 2006 02:06 PM | Link to this
Also Amelia, I’ve never called myself a “victim”. And no, I don’t “need” men for anything for myself. But since TWO of us created a child then HE has to help out. SInce he can not help with his time he can help in a small way financially.
I’m no one’s victim honey. Never said I was. I do however expect my son’s FATHER to contribute in some way.
By Whiley
June 12, 2006 02:10 PM | Link to this
“And Whiley, keep your legs closed if you can’t deal with the consequences of your decision to have sex.
GESUS you are a pig. A woman using birth control is able to enjoy sex. Get over it. There is nothing wrong with it. A woman deciding to terminate a pregnancy for whatever reason IS dealing with the consequences. A woman deciding to give birth to raise a baby IS dealing with the consequences.
Unless you think if a woman is going UNPUNISHED for having sex she is not dealing with the consequences. HA that’s it.
All those pitiful men you are talking about getting out of having to help support the pregancies they help create, YOU PAY THEIR BILLS. YOU!
Also Whiley. If men should masturbate more often maybe you should visit your local “self help” store. Save you, the man, and a child from having to live with the consequences of YOUR decision to have sex.”
ok AMELIA IS NOW PROVED herself (or himself) to be worthy of being in the Sexist Pigs club.
Ladies did you bring your paint guns this week?
By Whiley
June 12, 2006 02:11 PM | Link to this
“Sex is not some entitlement that comes with no consequence.”
Unless you are a man right Amelia?
By Amelia
June 12, 2006 02:14 PM | Link to this
He HAS to help out Julia? Did he agree to have a child with you? If he did yes he should help out. If he did not want the child and you had it anyway, you should accept full responsibility and support.
By Billy
June 12, 2006 02:17 PM | Link to this
Julia — is the “father” an ex-husband? Were the two of you in a committed relationship, or was it just a casual encounter gone awry?
By Zack
June 12, 2006 02:20 PM | Link to this
It scares me that Diane Glass and others actually believe the complete garbage said by the Nancy Northups of the world.
Life begins at conception. A baby in the womb, contrary to what the above preach, is NOT the property of a woman. To say otherwise is honestly no different than saying a Black man is the property of a plantation owner.
We moved past the abomination of slavery. Now that’s overturn Roe v. Wade and not look back.
Should men be held responsible for these children? Of course. I’ve spoken numerous times about sexual responsibility being uncommon by women, and in this example, we see how men can be sexually irresponsible as well. I’m opposed to both; Diane supports both. She’s wrong.
By Zack
June 12, 2006 02:22 PM | Link to this
Whiley, watch your language. Don’t say anything sacreligious.
Amelia, Whiley has a highly-distorted worldview, as you can tell.
By Anne W.
June 12, 2006 02:22 PM | Link to this
On Rights of Men and Women :
If men didn’t leave their sperm all over the place they would never ever become “victims” of those horrible women…………..> Totally True! Have you seen the blacklight photographs of hotel rooms? Yikes when a guy says he spurts—-believe it! On the ceiling, splattered across the mini-bar not to mention the tv set…all a girl has to do is roll on the carpet and ANYONE could be daddy….even the Ritz suffers sprits on the walls from 5star guests!!! Totally foul! Ewwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwie
By Whiley
June 12, 2006 02:24 PM | Link to this
Yes, Mr. Amelia, he HAS TO HELP PAY FOR THE CHILDREN HE ASSISTED IN CREATING. YES !
NOW, he has the right to never see that child. To never lift a finger. Isn’t that enough???????
GEE IT REALLY SOUNDS LIKE GUYS LIKE THAT TAKE RESPONSIBILITY FOR THEIR ACTIONS EVERYTIME THEY HAVE SEX !
No, wait, if forgot only WOMEN should take responsibility for sex right Mr. Amelia SP? lol PAINTGUN TIME you’re gone.
By The72John
June 12, 2006 02:25 PM | Link to this
Yes, Whiley is about to blow her stack…you can see the tell-tale signs emerging…
Someone pop the popcorn.
By TruthFairy
June 12, 2006 02:25 PM | Link to this
Um…. would some MEN like to weigh in here? Have any of you ever had a woman tell you “No?” Once or twice, huh? It’s okay, we don’t think any less of you. And women… any of you ever said “No?” Yeah? Whoa…. ME TOO! Wow. I think someone should tell the abstinence-only sex-ed teacher that um… Yeah, we GET it. We can say no. Is there anyone who needs that explained again? “What? You mean, I could have said NO? Jeepers, really?”
Surprisingly, lots of people knew that before today. Go figure. But why don’t you restate it six or seven more times, huh? You know, for the slow people.
By Whiley
June 12, 2006 02:31 PM | Link to this
“whiley, watch your language. Don’t say anything sacreligious.”
Why because the religious fetus lovers nut bags might want to stone me to death? lol !
By Whiley
June 12, 2006 02:32 PM | Link to this
“Yes, Whiley is about to blow her stack”
actually i’m having fun today. lol
By Amelia
June 12, 2006 02:33 PM | Link to this
Whiley, when I was 34 years old I had been with the same man for 5 years. I managed not to get pregnant. I decided that I wanted a child. He didn’t. I decided that I would have the baby but that I would be her sole support. I wanted it. He did not. After she was born he left. I could have dragged him into court and forced him to pay for the child I decided to have, but that he did not want. To this day he has not contributed one penny and it has been 19 years. The only man that has ever contributed one dime to her support is my present husband. And that is because he treats her as his own and WANTS to. I wanted my child and I took responsibiltiy for her in every way. I made the decision to have her. Me and only me. As for being a “pig” Whiley, I think that a woman that has sex by choice and then expects someone else to be responsible for her choices comes closer to the definition of “pig”. What is fair about someone being forced to pay for someone elses choices?
By Whiley
June 12, 2006 02:33 PM | Link to this
“On the ceiling, splattered across the mini-bar not to mention the tv set…all a girl has to do is roll on the carpet and ANYONE could be daddy….even the Ritz suffers sprits on the walls from 5star guests!!! Totally foul! Ewwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwie”
ROFL ! ! !
By The72John
June 12, 2006 02:34 PM | Link to this
Whiley, watch your language. Don’t say anything sacreligious
First, the word is “sacrilegious”, and second, who’s going to stop her, wet-behind-the-ears, you? I highly doubt it.
You’re not big on free speech, are you Zackie.
By moc
June 12, 2006 02:35 PM | Link to this
Whiley, you sound kind of like the proverbial welfare queen. Entitled to sex that someone else has to pay for. Amelia is right. Women like you set the cause of other women back 100 years.
By Zack
June 12, 2006 02:35 PM | Link to this
oops…”let’s”, not “that’s”. What was I thinking?
Have a good day, everyone.
By Jack
June 12, 2006 02:36 PM | Link to this
Billy. You should accept Whiley the way she is. She has been that way since I joined the blog and you are doing nothing to change her opinion of men. I have accepted you as you are and John too. haven’t figured out GOB yet.
By Billy
June 12, 2006 02:37 PM | Link to this
Whiley, the point is that women can rest easy knowing they never have to pay, regardless of what happens. Keep the child? The men pay. Abort or give the child up for adoption? Don’t have to pay.
When a man agrees to be there and then backs out — make him pay. But if you knew he didn’t want kids, yet you tried to get pregnant anyway…well, I can understand how he’d be a little ticked. I think Amelia, BC and I are all just saying that there’s room for compromise, room to give the men some sort of options apart from just, “PAY UP!”
By Justin
June 12, 2006 02:40 PM | Link to this
Julia, Your ex should contribute more than he does. I remember the issues you have gone through and sympathize.
By Billy
June 12, 2006 02:41 PM | Link to this
Jack — What do you mean? By telling her last week she needed to get laid?
By Whiley
June 12, 2006 02:44 PM | Link to this
Mr Amelia, you clearly made a bad breeding decision. Why would you want to make a child with someone who clearly didn’t want to be a father? If you wanted a child & he didn’t why did you marry? Why would you on purpose do that to your child? “well honey, your father never wanted anything to do with you & never gave us a dime & really didn’t care if we starved to death. But at least you have a step father now right?”. “Hey honey even if you’ve got a husband, don’t ever expect anything out of him.”
??????????!!!
awwwww John loves me after all. I KNEW IT ! :)
By ML
June 12, 2006 02:48 PM | Link to this
Women…it is your body…if you do not want to be pregnant or contract STD’s protect yourself!
By The72John
June 12, 2006 02:48 PM | Link to this
awwwww John loves me after all. I KNEW IT ! :)
I like the part of you that doesn’t call all men sexist pigs, yup.
And I really hate censorship. ;-)
By Julia
June 12, 2006 02:57 PM | Link to this
Whiley-got mine loaded and ready to go! LOL
Billy/Amelia-this is getting a little too personal. Suffice it to say that my situation was not a one night stand and was someone I knew for over 3 years. That’s all the personal info I feel like sharing. Thanks.
By Amelia
June 12, 2006 02:57 PM | Link to this
Whiley. #1 - I was financially able to take responsibility for my choices. #2 - At the time I made the choice I was already the owner of my own home. #3 - I gave my daughter every advantage in this world that any man could give. My point being that I knew I was cabable of taking responsibility for my decision when I made it. Furthermore, my partner at the time agreed to be the father with the understanding that I wanted to take full responsibility. And by the way Whiley, I guess unlike you, I have never needed a man to take up my slack.
By Whiley
June 12, 2006 02:59 PM | Link to this
“Whiley, the point is that women can rest easy knowing they never have to pay, regardless of what happens. Keep the child? The men pay. Abort or give the child up for adoption? Don’t have to pay. “
uh YEA. MORE LIKE:
Keep the child: Expected to do everything yourself. Cooking, cleaning, changing diapers, potty training, paying for an ever growing child’s clothes & shoes, toys, school, daycare, afterschool activities, Dr. visits, sickness, dental care, games, books, organizing play dates with neighbor kids, baths, storytime, haircuts, getting up in the middle of the night changing throw up clothes & sheets, homework, teacher conferences.
Father: $400 per month check, might take 7 minutes to do. Don’t forget costs for stamps.
Abort or adoption: Well, abort is surgery & still a risk, although safer than birth.
Adoption: well, only if you can handle the pregnancy then giving the child away.
Father: MAYBE have to pay for abortion, but not legally forced to pay anything. Not liable to pay for any medical expenses including birth.
Doesn’t sound like fathers are being put out THAT much.
By ART
June 12, 2006 03:01 PM | Link to this
Whiley, you sure have that speech to the child down cold. You get to use it alot don’t you. Amelia is alot more woman than you ever thought of being. Of course I guess looking at things from your perspective, the more kids you have the more support checks you get, the more beer, cigarettes, and lottery tickets you can buy. And you get to lay down on the job and still get paid.
By Julia
June 12, 2006 03:06 PM | Link to this
Thanks Justin! I appreciate it. I’m sorry for your situation as well.
By ART
June 12, 2006 03:10 PM | Link to this
Whiley if you don’t like your lot in life make better decisions. Stay off your back and you won’t be doing all those things that you seem to resent so much. But I guess that’s out of the question since you obviously feel entitled to irresponsible sex. How many kids do you have by how many different men anyway Whiley since you seem to hate em all.
By Julia
June 12, 2006 03:11 PM | Link to this
Keep the child: Expected to do everything yourself. Cooking, cleaning, changing diapers, potty training, paying for an ever growing child’s clothes & shoes, toys, school, daycare, afterschool activities, Dr. visits, sickness, dental care, games, books, organizing play dates with neighbor kids, baths, storytime, haircuts, getting up in the middle of the night changing throw up clothes & sheets, homework, teacher conferences.
All that and MORE Whiley-you really nailed it on the head.
By Whiley Fan
June 12, 2006 03:13 PM | Link to this
ART (aka Amelia), you wouldn’t know a real woman if one bit you on the aZZ!
By Archie
June 12, 2006 03:17 PM | Link to this
Whiley stay cool as people are simply trying to rile you. Whiley’s posts have been rational on this issue and she has not bashed men on this issue. I disagree with Amelia however when she says that if the woman wants a child and the man doesn’t then it’s all on her. Many of us have daughters and we don’t want the guy to lay up with our daughters then when pregnancy comes he just walks off. When a woman saves a used condom and impregnates herself that way then that is fraudulent and it should be all on her but if a guy announces that he doesn’t want children then has unprotected sex with the woman then it’s both persons responsibility for what happens. In cases where the man has bought the birth control pills but she didn’t take them as she said she would then I think that’s fraud and perhaps any payment the guy makes should be adjusted but that also means the guy does not get to be a part of that child’s life the way a complete father does…
By Chilao
June 12, 2006 03:18 PM | Link to this
So now Whiley’s in Section8 Housing? Who knew? LOL(j/k)
By Billy
June 12, 2006 03:20 PM | Link to this
Julia — I didn’t mean to get personal. My point was that being misled by the other person in a relationship sucks, regardless of which one does the misleading. Your case definitely sounds like one where the man should pay a decent amount in child support but is gettinf off easy.
Whiley — I have a child; don’t think I don’t recognize the costs involved. Again, the point is that the woman has total control in that area. If the man wants the child but she doesn’t, then it’s an abortion and a “Tough crap” for him. If she wants it but he doesn’t, then, again, it’s “tough crap” and a few hundred dollars a month for the next 18 years. If they both want it but one or both don’t want to get married, then she’s going to get custody and he’s going to have to pay.
$400/month — Based on a $30,000 (pretax) salary, a little less than $14.5 an hour, that’s almost 28 hours the man will work each month just for that one check. For a child he didn’t want or possibly might want but rarely gets to see?
I know you’ll say that he shouldn’t have had sex/should’ve used his own protection, and I agree. But still…when a woman makes the decision regarding keeping and raising a baby vs. adoption vs. abortion, she shouldn’t look at the potential child support checks when weighing the financial aspect of the decision. I guarantee you many women do that, though.
By Whiley
June 12, 2006 03:21 PM | Link to this
Art what are you talking about? AMELIA is to be praised for her sexist comments & irresponsible behavior? Most of the postings have been furious that women have children on purpose with men that don’t want to be fathers. Amelia is part of the problem. If you are with a man that does not want children YOU DON’T have one with him on purpose. You go marry a man that DOES want a child. PERIOD Or is this ALL ABOUT MONEY? That men don’t give a S@#$#@ how many children they have out in the world as long as they don’t have to see or pay for them? I don’t believe that. It is extrememly irresponsible to get pregnant on purpose(on PURPOSE)with someone who made it clear where he stands. If BOTH parties are using their own birth control, the chances of a pregnancy are almost nil. If EITHER parties are not using birth control for whatever reason, BOTH should equally financially deal with the child born so that other people don’t have to. YES since the woman has to carry the pregnancy it is HER FINAL DECISION.
“Of course I guess looking at things from your perspective, the more kids you have the more support checks you get, the more beer, cigarettes, and lottery tickets you can buy. And you get to lay down on the job and still get paid.”
lol yea whatever sexist pig LOLOL ! !
By Whiley
June 12, 2006 03:23 PM | Link to this
Thank you Archie.
:) :)
hehe Julia
By Whiley
June 12, 2006 03:29 PM | Link to this
Art, I never had children, never wanted them. Our generation was the first one to really have another option other than housewife & breeder.
So we educated ourselves on all birth control options. I’ve been on my back quite a few times thank you & all the other positions. Guess what? There’s absoluetly nothing wrong with that ! It’s not whorish or sinful.
And it was GOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOD. Only the religious nut jobs would think something so good & beautiful could be so bad. LOL !
By moc
June 12, 2006 03:30 PM | Link to this
Whiley is certainly doing her part to procreate the species; even if it is at someone else’s expense.
By Archie
June 12, 2006 03:34 PM | Link to this
I just visited a website where an attractive young lady was asked who would she choose to date a geek or a thug and you guessed right she chose a thug, a thug.Well, do you think you might have some problems with a thug type?
The situation you describe Amelia is a new thing for some because for so long woman did not have the financial wherewithal to do what you did and some still don’t and that’s why I say guys should wrap up but Amelia it looks like you had an agreement based on honesty but some guys are tricked and some guys are not tricked but want to have sex without protection and that’s why I don’t let us men off the hook. Really both you and Whiley are correct because of the situations that both of you describe.
By kimberly
June 12, 2006 03:39 PM | Link to this
If anyone reading this is conteplating bringing a child into this world, please re-read this blog several times first. THIS is the reality of it: B***, moan, complain, point finger, repeat forEVER.
Even those of us who HAVE taken responsibility for our less-than-perfect decisions and resulting offspring are blasted as not being “woman enough.” There is no position you can take in which some a—hole won’t tell you what a jerk you are. Others who take responsibility spend the rest of their lives harrassing everybody else (02:33 PM) because they’re so bitter that THEY did the right thing, but apparently, no one else on the planet ever has, in their eyes. And there will always be men who berate you no matter WHAT you decide! Even the men who don’t even have sex with women will rag you for bringing your brats forth into their world. Take it from a Mom: no matter what you do, you cannot win!
By Brian Curtis
June 12, 2006 03:40 PM | Link to this
By Mara, 12:23 PM “Of course, this is coming from someone who neither has nor wants children…”
I KNEW there was a reason I liked you, Mara! I feel the same way. Parenting can be great for some people, but it’s not for me.
And I got the surgery to ensure it never happens, even by “accident.” Much better than abortion, I think even Zack and Julia would agree.
By Whiley Fan
June 12, 2006 03:45 PM | Link to this
Take it from a Mom: no matter what you do, you cannot win!
Can I get an AMEN on that!
By Sick
June 12, 2006 04:01 PM | Link to this
Why should a guy have to take responsibility when a woman has decided to have a child or became pregnant knowing that the gentlemen did not want any children. We as women can have an abortion whether the guy likes it or not. The woman just says what the hell I don’t want to be a mother. Why does everyone sit there and say that the guy has to take responsibility to wrap his dick up? She should have to take care of herself just as much. If a gentleman is very clear about not wanting children and she does something to get pregnant behind his back, I am all for him not having to pay anything. She played just as much as he did and she is that wanted the child he isn’t, then she should pay, not him. Considering she was probably lieing to him about taking something or not being able to have children. Isn’t that extortion? By the way, I am a mother of 4.
By Julia
June 12, 2006 04:03 PM | Link to this
Whiley-what color are you using? Mine is loaded with purple. haha
How do you guys propose to take these scenarios up with a judge? “But, your honor, she said she was on the Pill so I shouldn’t have to pay.”…”But your honor, I told her in advance I didn’t want any kids.”…”But your honor, it was HER body that the child grew inside-so SHE should have to bear sole responsibility for the child.”
How are you gonna prove which pregnancies happened that were the woman’s fault and which were the man’s fault? The bottom line is that when a man and a woman have sex and a child is created then both parties are legally responsible for the child.
By Archie
June 12, 2006 04:13 PM | Link to this
Julia, both Whiley and Amelia are correct because they describe two different situations. Most of the things we discuss on this blog are relative to the situation.
“How are you gonna prove which pregnancies happened that were the woman’s fault and which were the man’s fault?”
This is a very good rhetorical question and it’s why I said both Whiley and Amelia are correct. Because of certain numbers I don’t think most women should make the choice that Amelia made. From what I have read no one has irrational on this blog and there’s no real need for animosity on either side. I sense some are still upset from last week’s topic. Most women don’t want their son’s taken advantage of just most men don’t want their daughter’s to be taken advantage of.
By Pamela
June 12, 2006 04:14 PM | Link to this
Here’s one for ya’:
How many deadbeat dads does it take to screw in a light bulb?
All of them! They all wanted a chance to screw something.
By Monica
June 12, 2006 04:14 PM | Link to this
The bottom line is that when a man and a woman have sex and a child is created then both parties are legally responsible for the child.
Well said, Julia!
By aquagirl
June 12, 2006 04:16 PM | Link to this
Right on Julia! Kids end up here, and they have to be taken care of somehow.Some of y’all act like child support is punishment. And all a woman has to do is forget to take a pill, and she’s pregnant. There might not be any malicious intent. If a guy is having sex, and doesn’t want responsibility for children, he should wear a condom.
By Jack
June 12, 2006 04:16 PM | Link to this
Mercy, mercy, Me.
By Child Support
June 12, 2006 04:16 PM | Link to this
Luckily the child support laws will be changing in July. I understand about having to give 25% of your GROSS income which is child support. Whoever came up with that law was stupid to begin with. 25% of anyones pay will break you and that is before taxes people. You don’t even have this money and they want you to pay it. When we all decide that it is both parties responsibility to take the precautions to prevent the pregnancy then maybe there will not be anymore unwanted pregnancies, but don’t look for it to happen in our lifetime. Guys make sure they are taking something or use what you can to prevent it. Women stop lieing or trying to trap the man. All need to prevent unwanted pregnancies for the child itself.
By Billy
June 12, 2006 04:17 PM | Link to this
The bottom line is that when a man and a woman have sex and a child is created then both parties are legally responsible for the child.
But the woman never has to accept any responsibility she does not want to accept. Don’t feel quite up to it? Abortion. Even if the father wants the child. That is the point many of us are trying to make, I think. If the man wants the child but the woman does not, there is nothing he can do to prevent her from aborting it. If the woman wants the child but the man does not, there is nothing he can do to prevent her from getting a few thousand dollars a year in child support from him. He is completely shut out of the decision-making process. I am not necessarily arguing that men shouldn’t have to pay; on the contrary, in most cases they probably should, especially in cases of divorce. I am just trying to reiterate that men have no say in the matter from the moment the sex ends, and that is not right.
By Billy
June 12, 2006 04:20 PM | Link to this
How many women does it take to screw in a light bulb? One. She just holds it and the world revolves around her.
By Julia
June 12, 2006 04:24 PM | Link to this
Hi Monica! Are you missing the t-ball games yet? I was really starting to enjoy them. You guys doing fall ball?
By kimberly
June 12, 2006 04:28 PM | Link to this
Random thought: How many women declaring outrage over a man burdened with supporting a child he “didn’t want” are involved with or married to a man who claims he was tricked - never loved her - she was the spouse from heck and doesn’t deserve the kids OR the money, etc? The Second Wives Club is just packed with women who hate other women for being so unfair to their sweet, wonderful, blameless man. (Although they usually change their tune when he moves on to the next compassionate female.) Heh.
By sandy
June 12, 2006 04:29 PM | Link to this
Let me just tell you first…I am a woman. Why is birth control always put on the man? Men can’t get pregnant!!!! Girls take control of your lives and take care of yourselves!
By Julia
June 12, 2006 04:36 PM | Link to this
Billy, if abortion wasn’t available then maybe people would take sex more seriously. (Yeah right.) I don’t believe in abortion obviously for various reasons.
You said,“He is completely shut out of the decision-making process.”
If abortion was NOT an option then the fact that conception took place after both parties had mutually agreed upon sex with one another would mean that any decisions made would NOT include the death of that child. (Which in my opinion it should not.)
So, take the death of the child out of the equation and what have you got? Adoption or raise the child.
By Julia
June 12, 2006 04:39 PM | Link to this
Well said Kimberly!!!
By Justin
June 12, 2006 04:40 PM | Link to this
No, I think it is the opposite…
Take it from a father: no matter what you do, you cannot win!
Can’t win custody of your children, can’t win the approval of society even if you’re Superdad
By Billy
June 12, 2006 04:41 PM | Link to this
Right on Julia! Kids end up here, and they have to be taken care of somehow.Some of y’all act like child support is punishment. And all a woman has to do is forget to take a pill, and she’s pregnant. There might not be any malicious intent. If a guy is having sex, and doesn’t want responsibility for children, he should wear a condom.
Sometimes it is used for punishment. And all a woman has to do when she forgets to take her pill is get the morning after pill. If she realizes within the next 24 hours, there’s still a good bit she can do to prevent the pregnancy from occuring. If she doesn’t at least try to getPlan B, then in my book she’s deciding that she wants the child.
By Whiley
June 12, 2006 04:42 PM | Link to this
Billy, you want fair? Grow yourself a uterus & endure pushing a baby out of your body then we’ll talk about fair. It will never be fair because men don’t give birth. I’m sorry you’ll never get the chance to push a baby out of your body then deliver the after-birth. Don’t forget missing out on all those stitches & permanent stretch marks!
lol Kimberly. That’s exactly why I always found out early how many divorces & kids potential boyfriends had. It was easy to spot the deadbeats, all they do is complain. The good fathers went on & on about their children.
“I am just trying to reiterate that men have no say in the matter from the moment the sex ends, and that is not right.”
He can opt to never change a diaper, never wake up to a crying child, never read books to, never go for walks, play at the parks, teach how to ride a bike, how to swing a bat, nothing.
By Renee
June 12, 2006 04:43 PM | Link to this
If a woman doesn’t want to get pregnant shouldn’t she “keep her legs closed”. How does that fall back on the man.
By aquagirl
June 12, 2006 04:44 PM | Link to this
The reaon men have no say when there is a pregnancy is because it’s not their body. Childbirth and abortion are medical procedures, and the woman is the one who has to undertake them. So no, it isn’t fair, but it’s biology. Until guys can cart the baby around in a shopping bag for nine months, they lose control of their sperm once it’s been deposited.
By Childfree by Choice
June 12, 2006 04:45 PM | Link to this
If a man really does not want children, then he should get a vasectomy. And nobody—male or female—should believe the “Don’t worry about birth control—I can’t have children” story. That’s the oldest line in the book.
By Whiley
June 12, 2006 04:52 PM | Link to this
“If a woman doesn’t want to get pregnant shouldn’t she “keep her legs closed”. “
SEXIST PIG ALERT!
SPLATTT ! !
Julia my sexist pig paintguns are all loaded with feminine colors. Sexist pigs freak out if pastel pink is touching them. You know, the don’t-want-to-look-gay thing they all do.
By aquagirl
June 12, 2006 04:53 PM | Link to this
Hey Billy, guess you missed the news segment where they went around and tried to get a scrip for a morning-after pill filled. There are plenty of pharmacies that won’t fill ‘em. Plus, going to a doctor and getting the scrip in the first place…And how is she supposed to know she forgot? Will she magically remember after sex? Plus there are drug interactions that will render birth control useless.
BTW, if you’re having sex with a woman who would use child support as “punishment” then a condom isn’t enough. I suggest a good pair of running shoes.
By Julia
June 12, 2006 05:02 PM | Link to this
Whiley-Yeah, pink would be a good one for the “PIGS”!LOL
(But I think you just splatted Renee.)
By Justin
June 12, 2006 05:06 PM | Link to this
Child Support, Actually, the child support laws will change in January 2007. Thank some of the mad women of the Georgia legislation for trying to push it out as far as possible…
Back in 1989, the legislators had to put a quick law into place to keep federal funding. They used Wisconsin’s guidelines that were originally intended for Title IV-D welfare recipients, not for middle or high income families. It applies in situations where the father is absent from the child’s life and is the sole income provider to the mother. Mandatory taxes are not considered, percentages are applied against GROSS pay not net pay, which can cause the child support to be more than 40% of take home pay. Visitation time is not considered even if the father is paying for child care, food, and maintaining a room for the child. Even if the father spends 50% of the year with the children. Overtime, commissions, and bonuses are used to calculate child support even though this is a not a “guaranteed” source of income. A father can be forced to pay for medical, dental, anything over and above standard costs for raising a child. Child support can be based on what the Judge thinks you can make (impute your income), not on what you actually earn. There is a federal incentive to set high child support payments. The higher the child support payments, the more the state collects.
Aquagirl, Child support in Georgia is like punishment…economic slavery to a person who hates you. It’s not even about the best interests of the child. The courts don’t look at the individual circumstances of the divorce or why they never married in the first place. The man is automatically at fault and they set the child support high. They view you as a deadbeat even when you have been totally involved in your children’s lives.
By Billy
June 12, 2006 05:07 PM | Link to this
OK. Here’s my stance on the unintended pregnancy process:
1) Both parties are in charge of contraception. Women, get on the pill. Men, use condoms. If in a monogamus relationship, at least use one. Both be active in its use, however.
2) At the point of contraceptive failure, notify the partner. Men, tell the woman the second you realize the condom broke/slipped off. Women, tell the man the second you realize you missed a pill. The earlier you know, the more options you have.
3) Women, get Plan B. The morning after pill is highly effective in preventing pregnancy for up to 72 hours after unprotected sex/contraceptive failure. Men, offer to pay for Plan B if it’s needed. Offer to pay for the pill anyway. Women, to say you are not ready for kids but then not attempt to get Plan B when contraceptives fail constitutes laziness and/or intent to get pregnant.
4) Have an abortion talk. If a woman has no problems with abortion, then she shouldn’t be unwilling to undergo one herself should she get pregnant. No, you can’t force her to.
5) If Plan B or abortion aren’t options, you’re left with adoption and keeping the baby. Women — It’s your call here. If you do not want to raise the child, you should notify the father of your intent to give it up, thereby giving him the opportunity to raise it. If you do intend to raise it, you should tell him that ASAP as well, so that he can have time to prepare for it.
6) If you intend to raise the baby, you must keep him involved in the pregnancy and birth as much as he wishes to be. You cannot just tell him that you’re pregnant and that you’ll get back to him after the child is born. Do not bring up child support until it’s near time to support the child. He’s going to be far more willing to pay the support if you let him get something out of his relationship with the child.
Honestly, though. There shouldn’t be that many incidents that get past step 3 if people will just be up front with each other about things.
By Mara
June 13, 2006 08:20 AM | Link to this
Brian - Yeah, bless ‘em who have ‘em…but not for me! LOL!
Speaking of getting “fixed”, I knew by my early twenties that having children just wasn’t for me so I went in and talked to a physician about getting my tubes tied. The sanctimoneous bastige had the nerve to tell me that, at a mere twenty-something, I had no idea whether I’d want children in the future. And that as I grew older I would undoubtedly regret it if I didn’t, then basically refused to do the deed. All that was missing was a pat on my pretty but (evidently)empty head and a nice lollipop for being such a good girl! I still get steamed thinking about it. At the time I was living in a very small town in a sparsly populated western state so I didn’t have much choice but to bow to his “greater wisdom”.
Now that I’m all grown up, insurance won’t cover it cuz it’s a “elective” procedure. So I figure, without the help of insurance, I’d be paying off the medical bills for the procedure right about the time nature would make the question moot. LOL!!
By Billy
June 13, 2006 08:23 AM | Link to this
Whiley — I thought you said you’ve never had children?
Aquagirl — I’m fully aware that some people have had trouble obtaining Plan B. You left out the incident where a rape victim was taken to a religious hospital where they refused to give it to her. I’m in favor of making it available over the counter. We’re not there yet, but the fact that someone somewhere had trouble obtaining it does not mean that you don’t try to get it yourself.
Speaking of OTC Plan B, did y’all hear the FDA finally approved the HPV vaccine?
By Lyrazel
June 13, 2006 08:29 AM | Link to this
Billy, I am sorry but most people dont have sex with that much rational thought so why pretend they will think about options rationally! Indeed I know so few people who would sit through the lecture or responsibility when their parts is ready for loving. The brain freezes up under passion, obviously it is INTENDED to freeze up otherwise no one would breed. In the world of singles its usually not the condom wearing man who gets the girl knocked up. Its not the woman who missed one pill who gets pregnant. Its the man who cant wear condoms because of uncomfortableness and the woman who forgot to fill her prescription for BC last month. The ones who use BC are rarely blessed with the unexpected stork arrival. That OOps factor gets so much play-by-play and yet IS NOT the main reason for most unplanned pregnancies. Majority just did not use BC, point blank. Its embarrassing in this advanced and educated society to know how few singles do use protection in an age where it could save a life. All the lectures from high school health are abandoned to pleasure of the moment…
By Billy
June 13, 2006 08:53 AM | Link to this
Too true, Lyrazel, too true.
By Archie
June 13, 2006 09:00 AM | Link to this
Lyrazel I have already said that men don’t like to wear condoms. Heck,I was told by a married guy that fools around that he doesn’t like to wear condoms and a woman I know said she doesn’t like them so that’s why on this issue I don’t let us guys off the hook. I buy condoms monthly without shame but some guys just won’t do it. To get on here and bash women but not criticize men when I know some of us are slack on this issue would be wrong. That was a good post at 5 pm yesterday by Billy but people don’t behave logically in relationships.
By Billy
June 13, 2006 09:01 AM | Link to this
Mara — If you were to develop a psychological/physical issue related to the procedure — say, the stress from concern about unwanted pregnancy was having detrimental effects on your ability to lead a functional life/you physical well-being — insurance might cover it. wink-wink, nudge-nudge, say no more…
By aquagirl
June 13, 2006 09:12 AM | Link to this
Ah, Lyrazel has captured the elusive oops factor. But I’d argue that plenty of women “forget” the birth control because they think in some semi-conscious way that their partner will make a great family man when the pregnancy is announced. I will cop to the fact that many women do get pegnant because they want a family, when the guys are much more shaky on the idea.
By Billy
June 13, 2006 09:25 AM | Link to this
Aqua, I’ll agree with you there. Maybe it’s not so much that a woman gets pregnant for child support, but that they believe pregnancy will result in the man wanting to settle down, get married, etc, and then when he doesn’t want to get married she goes after him for a lot in child support…Either way, if people would just use condoms if they’re men and the pill if they’re women.
By Lyrazel
June 13, 2006 09:37 AM | Link to this
Archie! Now if you feel my statement did not bash men enough? I am sorry but it was derogatory against both sexes equally for being unable to think during sex! Its usually not an accident that causes unplanned pregnancy…its the fools who dont use BC…. is that better? Guys like you who wear condoms dont spread infectious diseases and seldom have unplanned pregnancies…with partners/wives/singles. Its a no-brainer…and in a moment when the brain does not function rationally! Sadly…in most lives…having a 6-step discussion wont happen until AFTER the accident.
By Mara
June 13, 2006 09:41 AM | Link to this
Billy - yeah, that’d work right up to the moment the fraud investigator asked to speak to me. That’s when the twitching and sweating would start. I have NO ability to lie with conviction ;^P
and besides, my insurance is one of those that does pay for regular contraception…
By GOB
June 13, 2006 09:47 AM | Link to this
I have accepted you as you are and John too. haven’t figured out GOB yet.
I must admit, I am quite the man of mystery.
By Mara
June 13, 2006 09:49 AM | Link to this
aquagirl - I will cop to the fact that many women do get pegnant because they want a family…
that’s not actually a fact, dear. It’s your opinion as to why some women scheme to get pregnant without the mans agreement.
By Archie
June 13, 2006 09:49 AM | Link to this
Archie! Now if you feel my statement did not bash men enough?
Lyrazel your post was fine, I was referring to myself. I have bashed women last week for the previous topic and I was not going let us guys off lightly. I am not perfect but I have done some of things Billy talked about in his 5 pm post yesterday.
By Billy
June 13, 2006 09:50 AM | Link to this
Mara, when the twitching and sweating start you can just say, “See? I’m so freaked out about it that I can’t even sit here like a normal person!”
I’ve long been irked by the idea of insurance programs covering Viagra but not contraception. It’s bass-ackwards.
By aquagirl
June 13, 2006 10:00 AM | Link to this
True, Mara, I should have stated that more as an opinion. But it’s kind of an “opinion” that men don’t like to wear condoms, and most people (on this forum anyway) seem to agree. I think that there are plenty of women who drift into pregnancy with a vague feeling that the guy will “change” like he’s the main character in a cheap romance novel. They don’t necessarily scheme about it, any more than men scheme to avoid condom use by sort of leaving the birth control up to the women.
By GOB
June 13, 2006 10:02 AM | Link to this
By Mara, 12:23 PM “Of course, this is coming from someone who neither has nor wants children…”
I KNEW there was a reason I liked you, Mara! I feel the same way. Parenting can be great for some people, but it’s not for me.
Can I join your club??
By Billy
June 13, 2006 10:10 AM | Link to this
I agree with you, Aqua. How many women (and men, I suppose) have get pregnant in the hopes of fostering more intimacy in their marriages? If they think the relationship is on the rocks, it’s not uncommon to get pregnant hoping a baby will fix things…
By Mara
June 13, 2006 10:26 AM | Link to this
aquagirl - as I see it there’s at least anecdotal evidence that, generally speaking, “men don’t like to wear condems”. And men, for the most part, aren’t reluctant to admit it either. So, while I’m sure that some women who “unexpectedly” get pregnant do so because they want a baby (or “family” if you prefer), I haven’t heard a lot of comments to support that view. I have heard it said that they thought the baby would insure that there would always be some kind of connection between the man and woman.
GOB - (arms spread wide…) Welcome, brother! We’ll get to the secret handshake in a minute..LMAO!!
By Aquagirl
June 13, 2006 10:28 AM | Link to this
Most people approach renovating their kitchens with more logic, planning, and clarity than they apply to reproduction. How many couples have really done the steps taken in Billy’s 5:07 post? No wonder the family courts are so busy. I knew a girl who got married and had a kid because “he has the hottest Camero!” Amazing.
By Mara
June 13, 2006 10:29 AM | Link to this
Billy - regarding the 10:10 post…that I can agree with!
By Billy
June 13, 2006 10:36 AM | Link to this
I knew a girl who got married and had a kid because “he has the hottest Camero!”
Her neck must be the reddest shade of red there is…
By GOB
June 13, 2006 10:37 AM | Link to this
I knew a girl who got married and had a kid because “he has the hottest Camero!”
Now to be fair, he probably had a sweet mullet too.
By demigod33
June 13, 2006 10:47 AM | Link to this
It is the woman fault period!!
To the fellas, shut-up, admit your errors, and move on!
By Mara
June 13, 2006 11:38 AM | Link to this
of topic -
so that wacko Loganville woman who wanted to pull the Harry Potter stories out of the school library has decided to waste some more of the publics time by appealing the Gwinnett County school boards denial to the State Board of Education. (shaking head sadly…) I wonder if she’s protesting C.S. Lewis, Tolkien, E.R. Burroughs, Brian Jaques, Ursula LeGuin and on and on and on….
By pitbull
June 13, 2006 11:40 AM | Link to this
I think the important point to acknowledge is that there are a lot of untrustworthy people out there who lack the character to be trusted enough to be sexually intimate with them. If a man finds himself in the situation presented by this column, and it is with a woman who lacked the character to be honest with him upfront regarding her pregnancy precautions, then he can probably expect her to try to take as much financial advantage of him in the situation as possible.
What men need to realize is that when it comes to kids, men are second class citizens. If a child is born and the man would make the best parent and wants custody, he will not get it. The woman will get it simply because she is the woman. As I once heard a Gwinnett County judge say in awarding custody, “I’ve never seen the calf follow the bull.” With this type of jurisprudence, men cannot expect justice in legal matters regarding kids.
It also encourages women lacking in character to use the ability to have children to support themselves by having children that they may or may not want by men with means in order to secure their ongoing financial support.
The entire issue of womens’ character I think has come back to haunt them in that men are now less likely to commit, and there are a lot more women sitting alone on Saturday night, or spending it with their girlfriends simply because men do not trust them for the reasons discussed above.
I also think man women or character suffer as a result due to the fact that good men who have been burned by manipulative women no longer wish to make any final committment, and that denies really good people of the chance to build a quality lifetime and relationship together.
In the end, women as a gender are just like everyone else; they are their own worst enemies.
By JAMES
June 13, 2006 11:52 AM | Link to this
i happened to read a post that mentioned that things would never be fair because a man can’t conceive and carry a baby for 9 months and then have to push it out of his body and then deliver the afterbirth….blah blah blah. and then the statement “it’s biology, accept it” something like that. well, if that’s the party line for some women, i wanna adopt it too. it’s biology, the birthing process was know to you before you got pregnant. don’t use this biological process the justify your incorrect feelings of entitlement.
here’s the actual comment…Billy, you want fair? Grow yourself a uterus & endure pushing a baby out of your body then we’ll talk about fair. It will never be fair because men don’t give birth. I’m sorry you’ll never get the chance to push a baby out of your body then deliver the after-birth. Don’t forget missing out on all those stitches & permanent stretch marks!
most women don’t even pay attention to what child support is really for. EXAMPLE…..single woman living in an apartment and taking care of herself. single woman gets pregnant and the father of the baby offers to pay her a set amount in child support. he offers to pay half the day care and provide the diapers, food and clothes. even offers to carry the insurance. the baby isn’t increasing the rent, utilities or phone bill. what’s the problem with him actually paying support like he offered instead of being taken to court?
By Mara
June 13, 2006 12:05 PM | Link to this
JAMES- “the father of the baby offers to pay her a set amount in child support. he offers to pay half the day care and provide the diapers, food and clothes. even offers to carry the insurance.”
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA (gasp!…) HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!! yes indeed. Let us count the gazillion times that’s happened and then compare it to the seldom occuring “EEEK! She’s preggers! RUN AWAY! RUN AWAY!” and then we’ll look at why there is court mandated child support.
By JAMES
June 13, 2006 12:18 PM | Link to this
court mandated child support payments sometimes don’t get made. moot point. the issue is lots of women always figure they can get more by going through the courts. i know several women that were just given cash payments for support. for whatever reason (probably other nosey women) they figured what they were receiving wasn’t enough and just had to drag the father into court. not logical reason. punishment and greed. it’s never an issue of CHILD SUPPORT. long story short, court ordered child support was less that what was previously being received.
By chuck
June 13, 2006 12:23 PM | Link to this
Just a quick pop-in today. Most women are stupid when it comes to men. Whiley is right about ONE THING! Most men are PIGS…and women BELIEVE them. Guess what gals, they don’t love you, they are not going to call, they aren’t looking for a relationship. They are looking for ONE THING! to get in your pants. They will lie to your face because they DON’T CARE HOW YOU FEEL ABOUT YOURSELF TOMORROW.
That is the plain honest truth about men in general. I am so glad that my Dad made it a point to raise me differently. I am raising my son to be different than that too. I trust that it will work as well with him as it did with me. SEX is NOTHING compared to the real love between a husband and wife. Don’t get me wrong, it’s still fun even after 27 years, but if something happened to that part of our relationship tomorrow it would not change the way we feel about each other. Girls, that is what you ought to hold out for.
By chuck
June 13, 2006 12:29 PM | Link to this
BTW Julia, the trip was great. Thanks for asking. We did a number of concerts and I got to visit a bunch of schools and teach a few classes. It was very rewarding and I think that we did some good. I know that I got a bigger blessing out of it than I could ever have been to them.
I got to sing in a 500 year old church to music played on a 300 year old pipe organ. That was pretty cool.
By Billy
June 13, 2006 12:40 PM | Link to this
James, there are plenty of deadbeat dads who don’t pay or men who pay far too little. It’s quite a bit of a stretch to imply that taking a man to court for child support is due to greed. I’d wager that’s not the case most often.
That comment made previously was made by Whiley. I could have sworn she has said that she doesn’t have any kids. If not, I don’t see how she can tell me about the pain of childbirth…I’ll admit that I can’t know that pain the way a woman who has given birth can, but a woman who hasn’t given birth knows nothing more about that pain than I do…
By JAMES
June 13, 2006 12:54 PM | Link to this
billy, i’d wager that it’s a 50/50 toss up between fathers taken to court for legitimate reasons and greed/punishment. no doubt in my mind.
as far as the pain of childbirth is concerend, it’s part and partial of the whole deal. no special kudoos for it. if u sign up for it take your medicine like a woman. with the correct medications, i’ve been told that childbirth is a pressure filled experience not a pain filled one.
By JAMES
June 13, 2006 01:05 PM | Link to this
how about a father finds out that a child is his after the child is 11 years old. he finds out because he gets the supoena from the courts. the man had never been in hiding and as a matter of fact, had no idea he had a child. he’s taken to court for child support and it’s ordered. does the previous 10 years of no knowledge and obviously no support absolve the father from the next 7-10 years of support?
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By Billy
June 13, 2006 01:20 PM | Link to this
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By Mara
June 13, 2006 01:22 PM | Link to this
Heck Billy. A guy with kidney stones probably understands the pain of childbirth better than a woman who’d never birthed a baby - LOL!!!
just a thought…if menstral cramps are any dim indication of the anecdotal pain of childbirth…YIKES!!!
By Billy
June 13, 2006 01:29 PM | Link to this
Yeah Mara. I guess I was just thinking about Whiley’s earlier comment: Trust me when I say women take most of the burden when sex occurs. Particularly in the moment she’s in the stirrups pushing out a baby for 7 hours.
7 hours? My wife went through labor for 14 or 15 hours before they stopped for the first day. Then there was another 12 the second day before they finally did a C-section. 7 hours? That’s a cakewalk compared to what many women go through.
By Julia
June 13, 2006 01:50 PM | Link to this
Chuck-that does sound pretty cool. I’m glad you had a good trip. Personally, I’ve never made it out of the USA. :(
Our paster just finished a 4 week lesson on the truth behind the DaVinci Code. It was really good.
By Mara
June 13, 2006 01:53 PM | Link to this
But Billy, didn’t she know…with the correct medications childbirth is a pressure filled experience not a pain filled one? Or so I hear. And surely the C-section wasn’t that bad…
/snark
By Mara
June 13, 2006 01:58 PM | Link to this
as far as the pain of childbirth is concerend, it’s part and partial of the whole deal
um…James. The term is “part and parcel”
By Billy
June 13, 2006 01:59 PM | Link to this
Once they gave her pain meds, yes, it was mostly pressure. But painful pressure. And the recovery from the C-section is something I’d never want to endure.
By Julia
June 13, 2006 02:02 PM | Link to this
Mara-from first hand experience I can tell you that a c-section isn’t exactly a trip to the beach. Getting out of bed for the first time (or practically being pulled out by a nurse) was extremely painful and hard to do!!! And it took 1-2 weeks before I could easily lie down or get out of bed.
But nothing in this world will ever compare with looking into my son’s eyes for the very first time…that was awesome!!!!!:)
By JAMES
June 13, 2006 02:02 PM | Link to this
actually, i was there for the C-section. my wife was awake and wasn’t in pain. the morphine after the C-section kept her outta pain. Mara, no need to make it appear as if women do something unusual when they give birth. cause surely, if one takes advantage of all medical science has to offer one wouldn’t whine so much after the fact.
By Mara
June 13, 2006 02:07 PM | Link to this
Billy, sometimes you’re a real sweetie, y’know?
By Julia
June 13, 2006 02:08 PM | Link to this
Not to mention when the nurse rips the tape off the incision! YIKES!!!
By JAMES
June 13, 2006 02:11 PM | Link to this
mara, um, thanks for the correction but it seems u knew what i meant anyway.
billy, u say it was painful pressure. i was with my wife from beginning to end. during the C-section and the sew up. never heard of any painful pressure. she stayed 2 days and went home. 2 days after that she was up and walking around. didn’t see any evidence of the GAWD-AWFUL childbirth pains.
By Julia
June 13, 2006 02:13 PM | Link to this
James-Surely they didn’t keep her on morphine after the first day.
By Mara
June 13, 2006 02:16 PM | Link to this
Julia - I had hoped that the “end snark” at the bottom of the post would indicate to all that I was being sarcastic. I obviously agree that pregnancy and childbirth appear to be trying experiences. It was JAMES flippant comment about pumping the woman up with pain killers and the utter banality of childbirth that I was actually addressing.
And James - anytime one faces the possibility of death or permenant desease, any experience moves into the catagory of “unusual”, even childbirth…and tell you what, you try it and then we’ll find out if “whine” is the adjective you really want to use to describe post-natal problems. m’kay?
By Billy
June 13, 2006 02:22 PM | Link to this
Not to mention when the nurse rips the tape off the incision! YIKES!!!
Or having to wear what basically amounts to a diaper to catch all the blod that comes out over the next week or two…
By JAMES
June 13, 2006 02:35 PM | Link to this
mara..this whole thing little circle of conversations started cause it keeps being mentioned how women have the babies, how they’ve always had them, how this is the way god made things, yak yak yak. i’m just pointing out that childbirth isn’t unusual. u risk death each day that u wake up. u risk permenant disease (note the spelling :>) anytime u come into contact with people. and whine is the adjective i really want to use because i haven’t mentioned any post-natal problems. recovery doesn’t equal problems. no one mentioned haveing a wife pumped up on painkillers but it was an option that was available and she asked for and accepted the painkillers.
big deal, wear a diaper to catch the blood. what about that tampon or panty liner that’s used every month?
all of this is a part of life. no kudos for it. i never said it was banal but u don’t deserve a pat on the back for it.
By Billy
June 13, 2006 02:35 PM | Link to this
James — Ever stop to think that maybe your wife’s experience was one of the easier ones? Not everyone has an easy time of it.
My wife was on bed rest with pre-eclampsyia for two full months, during which we went for weekly and then twice-weekly checkups. This was after two months of PUPPS, a full-body rash. Four days before my son was born a high-tech ultrasound at a specialist revealed the baby to be healthy but huge. His body measured 40 weeks, his head 41. She was at 36 weeks at the time. That big head (which he got from me) was pressing into her pelvic bone throughout the labor. After her water broke, the came in for an epidural. Then they realized that his head was pushing on the pelvic bone (that’s why the pressure was so painful) and they did an emergency C-section. They couldn’t use the epidural for that, so they had to do a spinal tap.
Things went fine for the most part; she was safer having the baby at that point than she was being pregnant, but I wouldn’t categorize it as easy. Every time she tried to use the bathroom for several days she felt like her staples were going to pop out. Every time she sat up for a week I had to help her to the toilet and help her change the blood-filled diaper that she had to wear. Top it off with a baby that woke up screaming to be fed every two hours. I didn’t like it, and I wasn’t the one who had to go through the bad stuff…
By JAMES
June 13, 2006 02:52 PM | Link to this
billy- i didn’t say my wife’s pregnancy and delivery is idicative of every pregnancy. but, seems mighty strange that all u hear are horror stories of pain and agony. have u seen me say that childbirth was easy? nope, don’t think so. lucky me again, my daughter started of waking every 3 hours but she didn’t scream and i was happy to feed her. her bottle warmer and bottles were kept on my side of the bed.
By JAMES
June 13, 2006 02:54 PM | Link to this
indicative
By Julia
June 13, 2006 02:57 PM | Link to this
I understood Mara. Just wanted to throw in a few things from my experience.
Billy-It sounds like you were a big help to your wife. (Even helping change the “diapers”. WOW-you’re one of a kind!) :)
By Billy
June 13, 2006 02:57 PM | Link to this
James, I’m talking like a pint of clotty blood spilling out of your body all at once. I agree that the “Women have the babies so men have no say in anything” argument is bogus, but there’s nothing routine about even the most routine pregnancy and birth. I bet if your wife saw how you were treating it so lightly she’d acknowledge that you can be quite the p******.
And anyone who displays an inability to use capitalization while using “u” in place of “you” has no business calling anyone out on her spelling…
By Billy
June 13, 2006 03:04 PM | Link to this
So, James — you fed your daughter her bottle, so women are just blowing the pain out of proportion?
By Julia
June 13, 2006 03:09 PM | Link to this
James-What about the nine months that led up to the birth? Were they a piece of cake…no problems?
Billy-My mom stayed with me the first night home so I could get some sleep. (Had gotten about 3 hours combined in the 3 days I was at the hospital.) But after that I was on my own. I had NO experience with babies and was in total culture shock for the first 2 weeks. LOL!
By JAMES
June 13, 2006 03:09 PM | Link to this
wasn’t calling out her spelling. just returning a favor. did i ever say pregnancy was routine???? billy, if u would quit trying to add words to my sentences to make yourself look sweet maybe everything would be alright. question, why capitalize “u” if i won’t even do it for “i”?
it’s a blog. ooooooooo, punctuation is so necessary.
lastly, billy, life should be treated lightly. it’s a sacred and beautiful thing but it’s not that serious.
By Mara
June 13, 2006 03:13 PM | Link to this
interesting statistic, if you like details like that…
google search words - “pain” & “childbirth” - # of entries - 4,900,000
google search words - “painless” & “childbirth” - # of entries - 195,000
Julia - glad you caught it. I was concerned that you thought I was making light of c-sections. And I agree about billy being such a help. His wife is one lucky lady.
By JAMES
June 13, 2006 03:13 PM | Link to this
billy, u brought up the fact that u didn’t like being awakened in the middle of the night. not me. i just responded by saying that i didn’t mind. i enjoy feeding my daughter.
and, to answer your question…yes, some are.
By JAMES
June 13, 2006 03:21 PM | Link to this
during the 9 months leading up to the delivery we had tests taken and took all of the precautions that were reccommended but no problems overall. had a tense time when we had to wait for the results of the down’s syndrome test.
billy, why can’t i state my humble opinion without u calling names? why, why, why.
By Billy
June 13, 2006 03:32 PM | Link to this
Who’s adding words now, James? I never said I minded getting up in the night. I was trying to get it through your evidently thick skull that after 26-27 hours of labor over two days my wife could only get sleep in two hour blocks. My issue with “u” isn’t that you don’t capitalize it but that you use it at all. Two extra keystrokes is all it takes to type out the actual word.
Life shouldn’t be treated lightly. With a sense of humor, yes. But not lightly. Were someone to kill your wife and child, I doubt you’d treat it “lightly”. But hey, man, it’s just life, right? You say it’s sacred, but you obviously have no idea of what many, if not most, women go through during pregnancy and childbirth.
For the record, James, if you were on this blog last week you’d know that I couldn’t care less about appearing “sweet”. I’m just a little skeeved at the idea that what women go through during childbirth is blown way out of proportion. My wife’s experience was not fun in the least for me; for her it was excruciating. And she’s a tough little cookie. She’s been walking around for the past five years without an ACL and missing most of the cartiledge in her knee. It keeps her in constant discomfort if not outright pain. When she says something is a miserable experience, I believe her, and I’m not about to listen to someone who is too lazy to type out two additional letters tell me otherwise just because his wife had a relatively easy birth. Maybe your wife just didn’t tell you how bad it was because she didn’t want to put up with your BS.
By Mara
June 13, 2006 03:34 PM | Link to this
Okay. Quittin time! see you all tomorrow…or should I say “c u l8r” instead?! LMAO!
By Julia
June 13, 2006 03:34 PM | Link to this
Mara-I’m surprised Jack hasn’t popped in to talk about making stew…with all the talk of blood and clots and such. LOL
And yes, Billy sounds like a good husband. (I wish I’d had that kind of help!)
But somehow I doubt James told his wife afterwards,”Hey honey, there SURE wasn’t anything to this whole pregnancy and birth stuff!”
By Billy
June 13, 2006 03:35 PM | Link to this
Because your opinion isn’t humble, James. You think you know that women blow it all out of proportion. You think you know that it isn’t nearly as bad as they make it out to be. You think you know that it’s not that bad, because it wasn’t that bad for your wife.
By JAMES
June 13, 2006 03:37 PM | Link to this
the google numbers really meant nothing
By Mara
June 13, 2006 03:55 PM | Link to this
okay, maybe just one more post.
JAMES at 2:02 - “no need to make it appear as if women do something unusual when they give birth.”
JAMES at 3:09 - “did i ever say pregnancy was routine????”
If something isn’t “unusual” then it’s “usual”, right? Guess what a synomym for “usual” is? That’s right…routine. So, uh, yeah James. You did say that pregnancy/birth was routine, you just didn’t use the word routine. You can spin but ya can’t hide…
Yeah, Julia thought we’d hear more from Jack today. mmmmmm…it’s getting awfully close to dinner (heh, heh, heh…)
Billy - regarding the use of “u”…right there with ya bud.
By Julia
June 13, 2006 04:06 PM | Link to this
…Whiley must be out with her paintball gun having target practice…Jack must be home making the wife happy…Chuck’s unwinding after his trip…72 and Renee are off at Margarittaville for a few laughs…
By Brian Curtis
June 13, 2006 04:06 PM | Link to this
I’d say it IS pretty routine, given how the population keeps climbing. But that’s a topic for another week.
By Brian Curtis
June 13, 2006 04:07 PM | Link to this
Dan: “Somewhere in America, there’s a woman having a baby every few seconds.”
Dick: “Yes, that’s the problem. We’ve got to find her and stop her!”
By Tweety Bird
June 13, 2006 04:28 PM | Link to this
How many democwats does it take to scwew in a wight bulb?
None…they’re too busy twying to find ways to scwew over Pwesident Bush.
By Jack
June 13, 2006 04:33 PM | Link to this
No Julia, they are just trying to kill me at work. :)
By Julia
June 13, 2006 04:35 PM | Link to this
Tweety-You’re a little bit off topic! LOL
By james
June 13, 2006 04:41 PM | Link to this
billy-u said u didn’t like getting up. Top it off with a baby that woke up screaming to be fed every two hours. I didn’t like it, and I wasn’t the one who had to go through the bad stuff…
Were someone to kill your wife and child, I doubt you’d treat it “lightly”. But hey, man, it’s just life, right? boy, big shift, u go from birth to taking away life.
and, if your wife said she was miserable, i’d believe her too. i still say some women use a bit or hyperbole.
furthermore, women give birth everyday. childbirth isn’t an unusual act. i don’t care what the synonym is. use a little context.
By Julia
June 13, 2006 04:41 PM | Link to this
Jack-I went through that all last month I think! LOL
By james
June 13, 2006 04:50 PM | Link to this
Oh, Billy, I meant to ask, “Because I read the BLOG today does that mean I had to have read it last week?” “Is that a prerequisite for commenting on this week’s topic?”
did the capitals make it eaiser to read? i guess normal txt writing doesn’t wrk on this BLOG.
By Julia
June 13, 2006 04:52 PM | Link to this
Everyone have a good evening. (Go home and hug someone.)
For me, it’ll be my 5 year old.
:)
P.S. Chuck, I’d love to hear more about your trip.
By Billy
June 13, 2006 04:55 PM | Link to this
James — The “it” in “I didn’t like it” was referring to the whole ordeal, not my child waking up at night. Not that I liked him waking up at night or anything, but that was the easiest part for me. The point is that she woke up whenever he was crying, and she was recuperating from major surgery she had endured after two full days of labor and four consecutive nights in the hospital.
How about this compromise? Childbirth isn’t an unusual act, but there’s nothing routine about childbirth.
By Billy
June 13, 2006 05:06 PM | Link to this
No, James, it’s not a prerequisite. But you just assumed I was trying to win favor with the women here, and had you read last week’s you’d have known that’s not something I’d do.
Normal text writing? Are you serious? I can somewhat stomach that idiotic shorthand on a cell phone text message, but if you’ll look down at your hand you’ll see tat the letters are conveniently placed on the keyboard, one per key. That means it’s not hard to actaully ttype out the entire word. It does make it easier to read. I also doesn’t give us the impression that we are discussing the topic with a girl in middle school.
bt no, ur rite. ths is a hole lot ezr 2 read. its evn ezr 4 me 2 type. fckng mrn.
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By Melis99
June 14, 2006 07:21 AM | Link to this
Ok. Let me get this straight!!!! “Thou shalt not kill”. So if a man doesn’t want the baby I should have an aborting and risk spending eternity in HELL!!!!! Don’t you think this is a little extreme.:-)
On Whiley’s first note, on June 12th. I agree with this totally. “ONLY if & when both parties have uterus’s, so when sex occurs there is an equal chance man or woman will have to carry a pregnancy for 9 months. This will never be 100% because men aren’t the ones to deal with the risks & pains with pregnancy.”
I’m not a man hater becasue I believe that a man should be involved with their children’s lives; however; women should have more rights because we are the ones that carry the child for 9 months, go through labor pains, swollen ankles, inablility to keep food down for the first 4-5 months, inability to sleep for more than three hours at a time for the last 3 months, heartburn, headaches, throbbing breast from breast feeding, sagging brest from brest feeding, contraction from labor and the list goes on.
So I guess if men can sue for rights we should be able to sue for pain and suffering of being pregnant. Men want equality when it comes to the kids right? How about making them feel what we have to go through during pregnancy. Men let’s see you earn your rights.
What do you say women!!!!! Should we rally and go to court and create a law whereby we can sue for pain and suffering!!!!!!
By Tweety 2
June 14, 2006 07:27 AM | Link to this
How many wepubwicans does it take to scwew in a wight bulb?
None…they’re too busy twying to find ways to scwew over the west of the countwee.
By Mara
June 14, 2006 07:42 AM | Link to this
Good morning all.
Melis99, what are you talking about with this “pain and suffering stuff”? If you read yesterdays posts you will find out that you choose to suffer the pain of pregnancy and childbirth (if it really exists). I mean, with all the great painkilling drugs we can take these days you obviously don’t have to have a painful birth. And quit yer whinin’ about the swollen ankles, heartburn, etc…you can get all that without being pregnant so you shouldn’t be martyring yourself because of it. Women pop out babies all the time, no big deal…why do you people always have to make a big deal out of stuff…like you deserve some kind of pat on the back or something….
(LMAO!!!)
By Melis99
June 14, 2006 08:14 AM | Link to this
Mara: either you’re a man or you don’t have kids!!! If you’ve ever been through regular childbirth or a C-Section there is still a lot of pain. Yes I was probably up 4-8 hours after the C-Section but it doesn’t mean I wasn’t in PAIN. You see some women are true MOTHER’s and regardless of the pain everytime they took my baby for shot’s or the circumsition I wanted to be there to hold his hand. I can’t speak for all father’s but through it all my husband was nonchalante.
Oh yea let’s just take all the pain killing drugs out there!!!! And while were at it we’ll pass it on to our newborn that breat feeding. Wow, what a way to start life, ON DRUGS. Sure hope your not on drugs right now.:-)
And yea women pop out babies all the time NO BIG DEAL!!!! is this the same Mara that wrote.
“interesting statistic, if you like details like that… google search words - “pain” & “childbirth” - # of entries - 4,900,000 google search words - “painless” & “childbirth” - # of entries - 195,000
Julia - glad you caught it. I was concerned that you thought I was making light of c-sections. And I agree about billy being such a help. His wife is one lucky lady.
JUST SAY NO TO DRUGS!!!!!!
By what the heck?
June 14, 2006 09:08 AM | Link to this
I think Melis99 needs to have her morning coffee and take another look. Mara is being sarcastic. I can’t believe she doesn’t know that. That’s weak.
By what the heck?
June 14, 2006 09:10 AM | Link to this
I think Melis99 needs to have her morning coffee and take another look. Mara is being sarcastic. I can’t believe she doesn’t know that. That’s weak.
By Lyrazel
June 14, 2006 09:16 AM | Link to this
In all these discussions isnt it SAD that the childs life is just for payments? Either the kid is wanted or is part of a ploy of deception, right? In this toss-away world these kids seem disposable—even treated that way and in all the child suffers the most. What sort of woman raises a child and slurs a daily commentary about her deadbeat father who wont make payments worthy of his income? My mother. What sort of man can know he has a child but not want to be financially responsible to provide for a decent life for his child because he is too busy having freedom? My dad It perplexes me most grievously because I have seen such ilk and lived it.
We all talk about keeping legs shut and using protection but we are the intelligent ones who do. How do we reach out? How do we go forward and assist these children so they become assets to a community? What can we do in communities where bigots declare condom distribution among high school teenagers corrupts the moral fabric of our society? What should we do when more money is spent for evolution to be put in textbooks than protecting children with facts about reproduction? What can the community do when 70% of high school teenagers are impregnated by men in their late 20s-40 after class while her single mom is working? What do we do in a community ravaged by meth-amphetamine drug users—incapable of work but capable of reproduction? To go beyond the obvious is very difficult, even more difficult than casting aspersions is offering solutions. Share your knowledge instead of wrath. You all have good ideas——->share the wealth please. What do you do with these KIDS?
By Billy
June 14, 2006 09:19 AM | Link to this
Melis(sa?) — You can’t sue for pain and suffering in childbirth because you are the one who chooses to have the child. You have veto power every step of the way. After the deed itself is done, you can get the morning after pill or an abortion. The point some of us were trying to make is that a man has no say in it to any degree. If the woman doesn’t want the baby, she can get an abortion even though the father might want the child. Or, if the two aren’t married, she could have the baby and not declare the father to be the father, depriving him of any right to see his child. If he doesn’t want the child, but she does, well tough cookies, fork over a quarter of your salary. For the next 18 years.
By I'mARedHerring
June 14, 2006 09:31 AM | Link to this
bt no, ur rite. ths is a hole lot ezr 2 read. its evn ezr 4 me 2 type. fckng mrn
Dang Billy, you made me spit coffee.
I’m glad I missed out on yesterday’s discussion with “j@m3s”. Nothing irks me more (other than religious nuts, of course) than people who feel compelled to use texting shorthand where texting shorthand isn’t NEEDED.
I mean, it takes no more effort to type “u” than it does to type “you”. In fact it takes MORE effort to stop typing a word that should be reflexive to anyone who has typed for more than six months.
Gosh, I’m just giddy that Chuck is back. Wonder how many heathens he converted or killed while he was off proselytizing.
By The72JOhn
June 14, 2006 09:33 AM | Link to this
Dangit, I have GOT to remember to change my smart-a* handle back to my regular one. RedHerring. I am. Yup.
By Melis99
June 14, 2006 09:37 AM | Link to this
Sorry. Don’t see the humor in this statement. “what are you talking about with this “pain and suffering stuff”? If you read yesterdays posts you will find out that you choose to suffer the pain of pregnancy and childbirth (if it really exists). I mean, with all the great painkilling drugs we can take these days you obviously don’t have to have a painful birth. And quit yer whinin’ about the swollen ankles, heartburn, etc…you can get all that without being pregnant so you shouldn’t be martyring yourself because of it. Women pop out babies all the time, no big deal…why do you people always have to make a big deal out of stuff…like you deserve some kind of pat on the back or something….”
No it looks like I’ve stuck a nerve with the men on this post because you know that you don’t have to go through what a woman does to have kids but you think you should have equal rights. All you all have to do is lay down and have a good time. (Sorry GOOD dads this doesn’t include you) and most of you don’t think you should have to take care of the kids AT ALL.
By The72JOhn
June 14, 2006 09:47 AM | Link to this
Sorry. Don’t see the humor in this statement. “what are you talking about with this “pain and suffering stuff”
Apparently the concepts of irony and satire are unfamiliar to you.
By Billy
June 14, 2006 09:54 AM | Link to this
…you know that you don’t have to go through what a woman does to have kids but you think you should have equal rights. All you all have to do is lay down and have a good time. (Sorry GOOD dads this doesn’t include you) and most of you don’t think you should have to take care of the kids AT ALL.
Melissa, that’s just not the case. It’s not that men want equal rights in the matter, it’s just that men would like some rights. As it stands, it’s either the woman getting an abortion regardless of the man’s wishes or the man having to pay a significant chunk of his salary to her, a chunk over which she has complete spending control.
And it’s BS to say that “most” don’t want to have anything to do with the kids at all…
By Billy
June 14, 2006 09:57 AM | Link to this
The site sure seems to be posting comments much faster than in recent days…
By Carol
June 14, 2006 09:57 AM | Link to this
If he layed with her played with her and didn’t use condoms, yes he should be responsible. If she was good enough to lay with then it’s obvious she is good enough to have his child. If you don’t want any babies, then keep your wooly in your pants or put a cap on it. Ladies if you don’t want any babies then keep your legs closed. Be careful who you lay down with, cause the expected can happen.
By Jack
June 14, 2006 10:00 AM | Link to this
Those that haven’t had children have no clue.
By Stephen Colbert
June 14, 2006 10:01 AM | Link to this
Sorry. Don’t see the humor in this statement.
“what are you talking about with this “pain and suffering stuff”? If you read yesterdays posts you will find out that you choose to suffer the pain of pregnancy and childbirth (if it really exists). I mean, with all the great painkilling drugs we can take these days you obviously don’t have to have a painful birth. And quit yer whinin’ about the swollen ankles, heartburn, etc…you can get all that without being pregnant so you shouldn’t be martyring yourself because of it. Women pop out babies all the time, no big deal…why do you people always have to make a big deal out of stuff…like you deserve some kind of pat on the back or something….”
Sarcasm, you’re on notice.
By Mara
June 14, 2006 10:01 AM | Link to this
Billy - that’s why I’d support Brian Curtis’ opt-out option. Women do have options after the deed, and plenty of time to consider them. Men are pretty much screwed (no pun intended LOL!) once the initial thoughtless act is completed.
what the heck - Does nobody appreciate sarcasm as an artform anymore?! ;^P
Lyrazel - we know the programs that work. We know that nutrition programs help kids concentrate on learning. We know that helping at-risk kids learn gives them hope that their lives will get better, eventually. We know mentoring programs encourage children and nurtures their self-esteem. We know that afterschool programs help kids resist the pressure of gangs, violence, and drug use. We know that sports programs help girls learn to stand up for themselves, to respect themselves, to say “NO” when they need to. We know that comprehensive sex ed, including but not exclusively “abstinence”, helps kids make better choices once sexual activity is chosen. We know that conflict resolution training helps kids learn to solve disputes without violence.
The problem is that all these things cost $MONEY$ and there’re a whole heap of folks that’d rather keep their hard earned cash for themselves than give it to the government to invest in the common good. After all, they made good choices and shouldn’t be penalized because other people didn’t. They are more comfortable making those that made bad decisions “take responsibility” for those decisions than help them learn to make better ones. Or even help their children learn to make better ones. “You made your bed, now you have to lie in it” seems to be the prevailing philosophy. Until we decide that helping our neighbors is more constructive than condemning their behavior/choices…we’ll keep seeing the cycle repeat itself, over and over.
By Melis99
June 14, 2006 10:21 AM | Link to this
Billy: Yes you are right we do choose to have it which is why we should have more rights. In a married situation both parents choose to have the child. I don’t think I know of one married man that would tell his pregnant wife to have an abortion. However the point I’m making is in a divorce situation you want equal rights when there’s not equal rights when it comes to child birth. We both make the choice to have the baby but only one person has the pain. So you’re pimping and using us now right? What’s to stop a man from getting married just to have kids and then get divorced because he got what he wanted!!!!! Doesn’t want the wife just the kids but didn’t want to use a surrogate because of the cost.
By The72JOhn
June 14, 2006 10:24 AM | Link to this
Those that haven’t had children have no clue
Well, I may not have experienced it personally, but I know that my sister spent 5 months on a wedge with her feet elevated over her head, and that at the end of that time, after a 72 hour labor, she looked like a corpse and spent weeks recovering.
So I have a pretty good idea.
By Jack
June 14, 2006 10:28 AM | Link to this
Sounds like fun don’t it? LOL
By Archie
June 14, 2006 10:29 AM | Link to this
“decisions than help them learn to make better ones. Or even help their children learn to make better ones. “You made your bed, now you have to lie in it” seems to be the prevailing philosophy. Until we decide that helping our neighbors is more constructive than condemning their behavior/choices…we’ll keep seeing the cycle repeat itself, over and over.”
This is a good post Mara and that’s what church folk should be about— helping their neighbors. I will admit you have to let folk take responsibility for their mistakes but yes as a church-going christian society,etc. we ought to help people as you suggest in that post. I have been critical of women’s choice of dress and I have been critical of men for using protection during sex, well both sexes make mistakes and sometimes both sexes just plain don’t know what they’re doing. I have listened to a co-worker complain about her husbands’ infidelity and lack of attention and yes he had a child by another woman so yeah I know as men we don’t like to wear protection but then women go right along with our ways so rather than pick a side I just say people don’t know what they’re doing and as a society we need programs in place that anticipate that fact.
By Billy
June 14, 2006 10:31 AM | Link to this
Agreed, Mara. The thing is that for the amount we spend on abstinence only “education” we could be getting comprehensive sex ed for everyone.
By Billy
June 14, 2006 10:42 AM | Link to this
Melis99 — You post focuses entirely on married couples. What about unmarried couples? What about relatively casual sex? What if a condom breaks and the woman refuses to get the morning after pill? What if a woman doesn’t tell the father that she’s pregnant with his child until she is several months along? Or until the baby comes?
We’re not talking about husbands pimping out their wives.
By Melis99
June 14, 2006 10:49 AM | Link to this
Billy: Ok let’s talk about spending control. Let’s say a man makes 100,000 a year, you mean to tell me he can’t spend 25,000 taking care of his two kids? Let me break it down to you. I have two kids and it cost me 320.00 a week for daycare, and that’s one of the least expensive daycares. That amounts to 17,000 a year so that leaves you with 8,000 or 600.00 a month to take care of food, clothing, toys, medicalor medicine, personal hygine, activities and a few more items. Shall we go into the price of diapers, wipes and formula? Not to include time off from work when the kids get sick. So you see Billy we’re not taking the money and flushing it down the toilet!!!!!
By GOB
June 14, 2006 10:52 AM | Link to this
In a married situation both parents choose to have the child.
Maybe I am mistaken, but I dont believe the husband has to sign a consent form if the wife wants an abortion. He also cant force her to get one, so in reality, the husband’s legal rights arent any better than those of a random one night stand guy. Hopefully in a marriage it would be different, but there is no way to ensure that it is.
By Mara
June 14, 2006 10:59 AM | Link to this
Archie, thanks for the kudos, but I don’t know where you saw me interject religion into the post. Whether this is what “church folk” or a “church going christian society” should be about is completely beside the point. This is what a decent society should be about, whether that society is predominatly christian, muslim, wiccan, buddhist, or even secular or atheist.
By Melis99
June 14, 2006 11:00 AM | Link to this
Billy: Number one, I know I sound religous but if you’re not married you shouldn’t be having sex anyway especially with AIDS on the rise. If you have to have sex than you get what evers coming to you. That’s just like someone driving drunk and having an accident and seriously injuring someone or killing them. (You have what’s coming to you.) Sorry I have no sympathy for either party. And innocent child should not have to pay for the neglegence to two grown adults. There too many people out here looking to adopt a child because they can’t have any. Just think what if our mother’s had felt the same way. (You wouldn’t be talking to me right now.)
By GOB
June 14, 2006 11:10 AM | Link to this
There too many people out here looking to adopt a child because they can’t have any.
Well, as long as the child is a baby and white, your statement is true.
By The72JOhn
June 14, 2006 11:13 AM | Link to this
This is what a decent society should be about, whether that society is predominatly christian, muslim, wiccan, buddhist, or even secular or atheist.
Don’t be silly, Mara. Everyone knows that Muslims blow up babies, Wiccans sacrifice babies, Buddhists are so busy meditating they never get around to having babies, secularists abort babies, and atheists don’t believe in babies.
Only Christians, obviously, are capable of dealing with babies in a loving manner.
By Snarky McSarcasm
June 14, 2006 11:23 AM | Link to this
Yeah Billy. Don’t you know that married folk don’t ever get AIDS? Just like people who don’t drive drunk don’t need to worry about having accidents. Those immoral so-n-so’s who have sex before getting married obviously DESERVE to be smited with HIV. Those who drive intoxicated DESERVE to kill someone…(wait a minute! That’s not right!…) uh…deserve to…feel GUILTY (yeah, that’s it!)..feel guilty for killing someone. They deserve it. NYAH!
By Melis99
June 14, 2006 11:25 AM | Link to this
Ok GOB!!!! I actually have a black friend right now that’s in her 50’s looking to adopt a black child. It really shouldn’t matter what color they are they are all so precious and fun to be with.:-) Oh and did I mention entertaining?
By Mara
June 14, 2006 11:26 AM | Link to this
John - Everyone knows that Muslims blow up babies, Wiccans sacrifice babies, Buddhists are so busy meditating they never get around to having babies, secularists abort babies, and atheists don’t believe in babies
ROTFLMFAO!!!!!! ooohhhhh! STOP!! My side is hurting! ohhhhh!!!…HAHAHAHAHAHAHA….(etc.)
By Melis99
June 14, 2006 11:33 AM | Link to this
Well Snarky maybe if they got something where it would either swell up or fall off would be fair. And no people that drive drunk don’t deserve to kill someone or feel guilty. You know before you get into the car if you’ve had too many. A life for a life. You don’t know the other person or what they will miss out on all because you were to selfish to think before you got behind the wheel.
By The72John
June 14, 2006 11:37 AM | Link to this
thenk yew, thenk yew verre much.
By GOB
June 14, 2006 11:39 AM | Link to this
Ok GOB!!!! I actually have a black friend right now that’s in her 50’s looking to adopt a black child. It really shouldn’t matter what color they are they are all so precious and fun to be with.:-) Oh and did I mention entertaining?
Of course it shouldnt matter, but in reality, it does. There a plenty of kids in foster care here in America that would love to be adopted, however, the most popular adoption method right now is to go to eastern Europe, Russia or China. That shows a lot of determination to get a white (or at least not black or hispanic) baby.
By Steve
June 14, 2006 11:45 AM | Link to this
I took responsibility for my actions when I had a vasectomy in 1994. I love children but I’ve never wanted any of my own, so the choice was an easy one. But that’s not the whole story. Part of the reason I felt I needed to have the operation was to avoid an ambush pregnancy. And the fact that the term “ambush pregnancy” exists is what illuminates the truth of this discussion. While it does take both a man and a woman to generate a pregnancy, only the woman gets pregnant. In order to say that the man is involved in the pregnancy he has to also be involved in all of the decisions regarding it, not just the one to have sex. Since the woman is the one that physically carries the child she rightly makes the final determination regarding the pregnancy. Unfortunately, a hidden agenda is regarded by a large percentage of women as a basic social skill. Since women routinely get pregnant deliberately without the full knowledge and consent of the man involved, there should to be a change in the child support laws. There should be no child support or welfare for women that get pergnant without the full knowledge and support of the man involved.
By The72John
June 14, 2006 11:45 AM | Link to this
Of course it shouldnt matter, but in reality, it does. There a plenty of kids in foster care here in America that would love to be adopted, however, the most popular adoption method right now is to go to eastern Europe, Russia or China. That shows a lot of determination to get a white (or at least not black or hispanic) baby.
I wonder if it doesn’t show more of a determination to get a baby rather than a toddler or older? Or possibly the ease of adopting through those countries is easier than adopting in the US?
By Snarky McSarcasm
June 14, 2006 11:48 AM | Link to this
Melis99 - your post makes no sense. WHO should get what “where it would swell up or fall off” and why would it “be fair”? Are you suggesting that drunk drivers get put to death if they cause a death (life for a life)? And WTF do I care that someone I don’t even know will or will not miss something? And by the way, it wasn’t that I was too selfish to think when I got behind the wheel, it was more I was too drunk to think.
Now where did I put that flask….
By Her fault, not mine
June 14, 2006 11:51 AM | Link to this
I ain’t gonna pay for no baby that I didn’t plan! If some chick can’t take the right pracautions that’s her fault! I’m a man doing what’s biological to male species, sleepin round! Every woman knows this is how it is in society - so protect yourself or say NO! That’s a womans job!
By Jack
June 14, 2006 11:52 AM | Link to this
“In a married situation both parents choose to have the child.’
I gave the choice completely to my wife.
By Billy
June 14, 2006 12:00 PM | Link to this
Just think what if our mother’s had felt the same way. (You wouldn’t be talking to me right now.)
Oh, I’m thinking. I’ am most definitely thinking…
Mel — First, men often have to pay a quarter of their salary just to support one child. Second, once thekids hit school age there are often school-based after-school programs that are far cheaper than daycare. Third, I could make the argument that the woman should know she’s going to have to provide all that stuff for the kid, ergo she’s making the choice to handle it on her own. Lastly, your post once again makes it sound like we’re talking about married couples here. I’m focusing more on the only-recently-met pairings in which neither person has shown any indication that they want kids, yet the woman, after sex, makes no effort to get the morning after pill, chooses not to have an abortion, and decides she can raise the child herself, not involving the man in the decisions at any point in the process.
By Pitbull
June 14, 2006 12:04 PM | Link to this
Might I suggest, based on the comments and attitudes expressed thus far in this blog that some of the men and women posting here meet for a cup of coffee or arrange to go out together on a few dates.
It seems you have much in common (anger, hatred, rage)and my impression is that many of you may end up developing long term relationships. It might be advisable, however for everyone to visit a doctor and terminate their ability to reproduce prior to actually meeting.
By Pitbull
June 14, 2006 12:07 PM | Link to this
I also think Shaunti and Diane are hot. I wonder if they are seeing anybody right now.
By Billy
June 14, 2006 12:22 PM | Link to this
I gave the choice completely to my wife.
No, you didn’t. You just though you did. She had the choice all along.
By Billy
June 14, 2006 12:23 PM | Link to this
I’d do Diane were I not married.
By heather
June 14, 2006 12:25 PM | Link to this
ever heard of condoms and birth control or pulling out or simply not having sex…if you dont want a kid then dont have sex…its not rocket science
By BenFranklin
June 14, 2006 12:33 PM | Link to this
I have an idea. Lets pass a law. If an unmarried man and woman concieve a child together: 1) the man does the right thing and offers to marry the woman. Therefore assuming responsibility. 2) the woman accepts the man’s proposal. Problem solved.
Should the woman refuse the man’s proposal and choose to raise the child alone she forfeits all right to monetary support. Should she accept the man’s proposal in the event of divorce, both parties assume 50% liability for the financial support of the child. That’s fair.
By Candi
June 14, 2006 12:33 PM | Link to this
Quick, comment Hi all, I’m new to this blog but very interesting comment. Though I beleive that a man should support a woman that he had a child with. I beleive that just as a man should be responsible for the child women some women need to take resposibility for there actions as well. You had just as much to do with having unprotected s3x with a man, that a lot of these women barely know. I know my mom thought me that there for every action there is a concequinces. So what do I do if you are not going to strap it I will. Why, because I don’t want to have a child and have to run after anyone for support. But the duty is done so what happens a woman is stuck carrying a load that is meant for two by herself and is reminded everyday that we as women need to be cautious of who we lie with. because not because he’s fine he will be a great providedextreme misconception
By The72John
June 14, 2006 12:41 PM | Link to this
Should the woman refuse the man’s proposal and choose to raise the child alone she forfeits all right to monetary support. Should she accept the man’s proposal in the event of divorce, both parties assume 50% liability for the financial support of the child. That’s fair.
Sure. It’s absolutely fair. If you’re an archaic, old-fashioned fossil.
By Chilao
June 14, 2006 12:52 PM | Link to this
LOL @ Pitbull - Shaunti is married, and if you search properly, Diane has some better pics elsewhere. Can we all say QT? LOL Plus her mind is in the right place as well(the more important issue for me).
By moc
June 14, 2006 12:57 PM | Link to this
That law would certainly be effective though. A man would think twice before playing ride em cowboy and a woman would think twice before assuming the dying cockroach position. And it would certainly bring gold-digging to a screeching halt. I think it is a great law.
By Melis99
June 14, 2006 12:59 PM | Link to this
Sorry Billy but sounds like you got ripped off because in GA it’s only suppose to be 17-23% for one child. Once they reach school age there are other expenses. Like afterschool care and sports. As for the single people getting together and both don’t want kids, then take safety precautions and I don’t mean the morning after pill. Men should also be respondsible for their actions. There are too many stores that sell condoms with the sperm killer. And once again you’re placing all the responsiblity on the women. If you want to have fun playing in the rain put your rain coat on or you may catch something you have to pay for, for the next 18 years. It’s a whole lot different than catching a cold huh.:-)
By Pervert
June 14, 2006 12:59 PM | Link to this
Pleeeeeeeze Chilao. Where are the better pics of Diane. Make my day.
By Jack
June 14, 2006 12:59 PM | Link to this
You are so smart Billy. Bless your heart.
By GOB
June 14, 2006 01:04 PM | Link to this
I wonder if it doesn’t show more of a determination to get a baby rather than a toddler or older? Or possibly the ease of adopting through those countries is easier than adopting in the US?
Getting a baby rather than an older kid is a major component for sure, but I dont think the ease of the process has anything to do with it. Our neighbors have been going through the process for almost a year and a half now. They also had to come up with some un-godly amount of money. I think it was around $25K, plus they have to spend at least a month in the Ukraine before they can leave with the kid (and on a side note, the Ukraine should be ashamed of themselves this morning). I know it isnt easy to get a kid here, but I dont think it is quite as exhaustive as that.
My neighbors were told that it was almost impossible to get a white baby in America, but there were plenty of black and hispanics ones available.
By GOB
June 14, 2006 01:05 PM | Link to this
Should the woman refuse the man’s proposal and choose to raise the child alone she forfeits all right to monetary support. Should she accept the man’s proposal in the event of divorce, both parties assume 50% liability for the financial support of the child. That’s fair.
Sure. It’s absolutely fair. If you’re an archaic, old-fashioned fossil.
Well, his handle is Ben Franklin…Thank you, thank you. I’ll be here all week. Please tip the wait staff.
By GOB
June 14, 2006 01:08 PM | Link to this
Sorry Billy but sounds like you got ripped off because in GA it’s only suppose to be 17-23% for one child.
Yeah, Billy. Not 25%, 23%…Get it right already.
By The72John
June 14, 2006 01:17 PM | Link to this
And it would certainly bring gold-digging to a screeching halt. I think it is a great law
Given the expense and time involved in raising a child, I find it very hard to credit that anyone actually believes that women have children in order to “gold dig”. Ok…maybe there are a few women out there trying to get knocked up by multi-millionaire athletes in the hopes of netting a six figure stipend, but I just can’t imagine that normal people with normal incomes benefit monetarily from child support payments.
Maybe someone’s a little carried away with media images and misogynistic conspiracy theories, hmm…
By Billy
June 14, 2006 01:19 PM | Link to this
Sorry Melissa but I don’t have to pay child support seeing as how I’m happily married to the mother of my only child. I just have a little bit of sympathy for men who are forced to pay for something they didn’t want and weren’t aware the other person wanted.
in GA it’s only suppose to be 17-23% for one child
17-23%…lesseehere…yeah, apparently 23 is only two away from 25, which is a quarter…one fourth… What’s that? That’s based on the gross salary? Tremendous!
And I’m not advocating the use of Plan B as plan A. I’m advocating that any woman who is with a man that hasn’t said he’d like kids right away obtain Plan B should their contraception fail or had they failed to use it in the first place. It’s much easier to decide you want kids and then have one than it is to decide you don’t want any when you already do.
By moc
June 14, 2006 01:35 PM | Link to this
The72John, what do you consider a normal income? I make 65K a year. If I have to pay a woman that makes 30K a year 25% of my gross income, she just got a pretty good stipend pal. Gold digging does exist in the land of normal people John.
By Billy
June 14, 2006 01:39 PM | Link to this
I dunno John. Normal people with normal incomes…you’re probably right. But lazy people with subpar incomes…
Single woman making $20K — getting by. Single mother making $20K — welfare eligible. On top of the 17-to-23-not-25-percent of the father’s income, hell ,she may not even have to work and still be able to keep her standard of living what it was.
By ARRF
June 14, 2006 01:45 PM | Link to this
And if she does it 2 or 3 times before long she’s making 65K a year. Everything is relative. To a woman making a low wage, getting child support from a guy making 65K is a bonanza. She can turn iot into a cottage industry.
By The72John
June 14, 2006 01:48 PM | Link to this
Gold digging does exist in the land of normal people John.
And your evidence of this? Personal experience?
Seems to me that Occam’s Razor applies here. Is it logical to believe that a woman would willingly put herself through the rigors of single-mother child-rearing just to supplement her income a little?
Maybe if you’re a woman-hater it does, but logically it just seems a little far-fetched to me.
By GOB
June 14, 2006 01:56 PM | Link to this
Seems to me that Occam’s Razor applies here. Is it logical to believe that a woman would willingly put herself through the rigors of single-mother child-rearing just to supplement her income a little?
John - Based on some of the posts that show up on here every week, I wouldnt put anything past anyone. I think you are applying a degree of logic and rationality that simply doesnt exsist in a great deal of the population.
By moc
June 14, 2006 01:57 PM | Link to this
How often do you get an $16,000.00 a year raise? (the 65K scenario) A couple of tax free raises like that might make it worth it.
By Pitbull
June 14, 2006 01:58 PM | Link to this
I think it is important to remember that archaic, old-fashioned fossils need love too. However, they also should be proactive in taking responsibility for themselves regarding not creating unplanned parenthood.
By ARRF
June 14, 2006 02:02 PM | Link to this
I bet Social Services and your local courts can tell you different John. Check those roles. And by the way John. Now that you are trying the “evidence” tack. Where is your “evidence” that it doesn’t? Nice try John, but no cigar.
By Justin
June 14, 2006 02:02 PM | Link to this
There is such a need to adopt Black children in Georgia that they are considered hard to place. The State of Georgia pays a subsidy to adoptive parents for hard to place children.
Georgia’s legal definition of special needs is as follows:
A child who is considered special needs is: (a) any child 8 years of age or older; (b) any child of Black heritage, 1 year of age or older; (c) members of a sibling group of three or more; (d) members of a sibling group of 2 where one is over the age of 8 or has another special need; (e) any child with documented physical, emotional, or mental problems or limitations.
The maximum basic monthly adoption assistance maintenance payment in Georgia is:
Basic rates (counties may add $1.75 to the basic rates based on the child’s needs):
Age Rate 0-5 $387.81 6-12 $410.63 13-18 $433.43
A child receiving State-funded adoption maintenance assistance is not eligible for Medicaid unless he/she has an identified medical or rehabilitative need when placed for adoption (if such a need exists, coverage is the same as that for a IV-E child). In practice, staff indicate that children have a “future need for counseling” so all children may receive Medicaid.
Parents can receive payment or reimbursement for certain nonrecurring adoption expenses directly related to the finalization of an adoption. Below are the allowed expenses and the limit per child.
Nonrecurring expenses include: reasonable and necessary adoption fees, court costs, attorney fees, and other expenses (i.e., physicals, costs of pre-placement visitation, etc.) directly related to the legal adoption of a child with special needs.
Reimbursement for nonrecurring expenses will be made only after the adoption is finalized. International children are not eligible unless they meet the state definition of special needs.
The reimbursement limit is $2,000 per child.
By Mara
June 14, 2006 02:06 PM | Link to this
John - you are thinking far too rationally on this. According to a lot of the men here, is fairly common for a woman to choose the high-life of support w/child to the rather mundane existance of freedom and work. Now, you or I might not choose to live this life of leasure, but $1333.00 (24% of $64,000 divided by 12 months) can almost pay the rent on a decent apartment here in Atlanta so it might be worth having a kid just to get the “free” lodging.
By moc
June 14, 2006 02:16 PM | Link to this
I’d be willing to bet about 16,000 that if child support were based on 23% of the woman’s income that this type of pregnancy would drastically decline.
By Melis99
June 14, 2006 02:18 PM | Link to this
Ok. Guys you’re forgetting you still have 77% of your income after child support and that’s not bad considering you only have to take care of you.
By Billy
June 14, 2006 02:19 PM | Link to this
24% of $64,000 divided by 12 months) can almost pay the rent on a decent apartment here in Atlanta so it might be worth having a kid just to get the “free” lodging.
Mara, it’s 23%, not 24!
By ARRF
June 14, 2006 02:22 PM | Link to this
But Mara, if the woman already is paying for her apartment, she just became able to buy that Escalade.
By Justin
June 14, 2006 02:28 PM | Link to this
Hmmm…let’s see…
A mother making $25,000 gets up to 23% of the father’s %65,000 income before taxes. She receives the tax benefits and can claim head of household.
Sounds like a golddigger to me…
By moc
June 14, 2006 02:28 PM | Link to this
Remember Melissa. Her 23% is based on the gross. The 77% you are talking about is after taxes. Loss of disposable income is much greater for the payer. The payee gets over like a bandit and doesn’t even pay the taxes on the 23%. Great work if you can get it.
By LovingParent
June 14, 2006 02:28 PM | Link to this
Come on people, I’m with John how could you not want to have kids? They are so much fun. There’s rarely a moment that I don’t miss them when I’m away from them. And if I could have the kids and get rid of the father completly I’d do it not just because I’m doing well enough to take care of them, by myself, but because right now we fight over who’s going to spend more time with them.
By Billy
June 14, 2006 02:28 PM | Link to this
Ok. Guys you’re forgetting you still have 77% of your income after child support and that’s not bad considering you only have to take care of you.
Not entirely true. That payment is calculated off of gross income, so it’s not factoring in taxes. I think child support payments aget a tax adjustment, but I don’t know if it’s a dollar-for-dollar deduction or not. Plus it is prohibitive to starting a family apart from that one child.
Question? What happens when a single mother remarries? Does the father still have to pay child support? I know alimony stops. Well, I think so, anyway. What about child support? Does the stepdad have to adopt the child before the support ends?
By Justin
June 14, 2006 02:31 PM | Link to this
Melis99,
Do you not realize they are taking the child support from Gross income not net? After child support for one child, I know men who only take home 40% of their pay!
By The72John
June 14, 2006 02:34 PM | Link to this
I bet Social Services and your local courts can tell you different John. Check those roles. And by the way John. Now that you are trying the “evidence” tack. Where is your “evidence” that it doesn’t? Nice try John, but no cigar.
Well, I didn’t make the original assertion, so the responsibility to prove the point doesn’t rest with me.
Instead, I am making a logical conclusion based on a combination of factors.
First, because using the word “golddigger” implies negative feelings towards women and suggests that the user is not objective in this situation. Additionally, because the various discussions of this topic all smack of things that “everyone knows” that are actually not true at all. Much like “everyone knows” that all welfare recipients are gaming the system, “everyone knows” that there are gangs of women who see your sperm as a big paycheck.
Second, because I have personal experience with what single mothers go through raising a child and have a hard time imagining that anyone would willingly take on those responsibilities simply because they want a few thousand dollars more of income, the bulk of which, if not the entirety, would go towards the raising of and providing of that child.
So, no. Not “nice try but no cigar.” Logical thought process rebutted by someone saying “n’uh uh!”.
By Billy
June 14, 2006 02:36 PM | Link to this
And if I could have the kids and get rid of the father completly I’d do it not just because I’m doing well enough to take care of them, by myself, but because right now we fight over who’s going to spend more time with them.
I’m sure your kids will end up to be very well-adjusted individuals. Once you find a way to bump off their father, that is.
By LovingParent
June 14, 2006 02:36 PM | Link to this
No Billy regardsless of whether she remarries or not you’re still on the hook for 18 years.:-) She just has some extra spending change now.
By The72John
June 14, 2006 02:37 PM | Link to this
Sounds like a golddigger to me…
Justin, you would accuse a bag lady Downtown of being a golddigger.
By Billy
June 14, 2006 02:39 PM | Link to this
How about if the mother is a smoker she gets no child support?
By moc
June 14, 2006 02:40 PM | Link to this
Where is your evidence John? LOL And we all know that the woman spends every dime on the child. LOL. Another good try John. No cigar for you today.
By Justin
June 14, 2006 02:40 PM | Link to this
LovingParent, Having children is wonderful until the relationship with their mother goes sour. Then it is he** to pay!
Billy, If a mother remarries, a man child support still continues. However, now he is faced with a possible move-away due to her new spouse’s career, to move the stepfather into the father’s role since he is in the household, or just to be vindictive. Woman Rule: The woman can remarry, have other children if she desires, but the man can’t.
If a man remarries and has other children, his child support will not be modified. His ex-wife or baby’s mama could actually go for a upper modification and get it. Forget the children in his existing household, they don’t matter. And, this is from a system that supposedly puts the “Best interest of the child” first and foremost.
By Justin
June 14, 2006 02:44 PM | Link to this
72John, I call it as I see it…
I’m not saying she’s a golddigger, but she ain’t messin’ with no broke…
By Melis99
June 14, 2006 02:45 PM | Link to this
Justin!!!Let’s not make the kids suffer for what the parents have done.:-)
By Repeat
June 14, 2006 02:45 PM | Link to this
If you don’t want any babies, then keep your wooly in your pants or put a cap on it.
By moc
June 14, 2006 02:45 PM | Link to this
But it could sure be enough incentive for a woman to not be quite careful enough, huh 72John?
By Justin
June 14, 2006 02:50 PM | Link to this
In order not to perpetuate the slave-master relationship between the mother and father, the court should state which of the children’s specific bills for which the father is responsible.
Instead of giving the mother child support, let’s say the father pays the daycare bill, sports activities, whatever. He can see where his money is going and isn’t faked out by her stating the daycare is a certain cost when her relatives are caring for the child for free.
There should be a greater penalty for interfering with the other parent’s time with the children. If more and more women are marched to jail for this, then parenting will become more equal. Women should understand. Most good fathers want to spend time with their children. This also gives the mother time to follow her pursuits, work on her career, go back to school, etc.
By LightenUp
June 14, 2006 02:54 PM | Link to this
I think this whole thing is a mute point anyway. Most of you don’t have to worry about paying for child support because most of you are probably gay anyway!!!!!! Now, try having a baby with a MAN.
By The72John
June 14, 2006 02:55 PM | Link to this
Where is your evidence John? LOL And we all know that the woman spends every dime on the child. LOL. Another good try John. No cigar for you today.
Again, since YOU are the one making a sweeping assertion about the motives of women, it is incumbent on YOU to provide evidence for your claim, rather than expecting me to disprove a negative. I have made my argument, and your only reponse has been to say “You’re wrong”.
Guess which one of us is more credible.
Feel free to look up any words you don’t know, by the way. I can wait.
By Justin
June 14, 2006 02:58 PM | Link to this
Melis99, tell that to the mothers who knowingly manipulate.
Are you familiar with “manipulation temptation”? Many people are often tempted to manipulate and try to make things work out the way the want them to, namely getting pregnant on purpose.
Ruth in the Bible faced “manipulation temptation,” but she didn’t succumb. You know the beautiful love story of how Ruth gleaned in Boaz’s field, and he was led by the Lord to take her as his own wife. Boaz said to Ruth: “I’ve been told all about what you have done for your mother-in-law. May you be richly rewarded by the God of Israel, under whose wings you have come to take refuge.”
Ruth became the wife of Boaz, a wealthy man who took care of her and gave her a son, Obed, who was the father of Jesse, who was the father of King David. What a wonderful plan God had for Ruth, and Ruth didn’t mess it up through manipulation. And because she resisted the “manipulation temptation,” she knew God’s blessing without any sorrow to accompany it.
By moc
June 14, 2006 03:01 PM | Link to this
So I guess you also advocate that the woman keep her legs crossed huh Repeat? After all, an unleashed “wooly” can do no damage if not allowed to enter.
By The72John
June 14, 2006 03:01 PM | Link to this
72John, I call it as I see it
No, you call it as your incredibly bitter divorce and custody battle with your ex-wife makes you see it. You make the error of assuming that all women are your wife, and ascribing her behavior to everyone else.
But it could sure be enough incentive for a woman to not be quite careful enough, huh 72John?
Yes, moc, because all the single women I know don’t dance around their living rooms singing and whooping when they discover that they really ARE just a few days late. Oh…no…wait…yeah, they do. Funny how that is. I mean, if single motherhood is such a cash cow, I wonder why more of my single friends haven’t embraced it with open arms.
Guess they’re just stupid, huh!
By The72John
June 14, 2006 03:08 PM | Link to this
I think this whole thing is a mute point anyway. Most of you don’t have to worry about paying for child support because most of you are probably gay anyway!!!!!! Now, try having a baby with a MAN.
In this discussion, only me, thanks. And my sexual orientation doesn’t interfere in any way with my ability to reason.
And it’s a MOOT point. Not a mute point.
By moc
June 14, 2006 03:10 PM | Link to this
the72John…like I said. No cigar for you today. Prove me wrong and I will eat crow. Prove that gold digging does not exist. If you can show me just one woman that spends every dollar of her support on the child, I will eat crow. Find one John. But bring reciepts partner. Just because you have “personal experience” to the contrary just means that the right man wasn’t involved.
By moc
June 14, 2006 03:22 PM | Link to this
theJohn72, then maybe your single friends shouldn’t have been embracing something else with open legs. Maybe that is the point to this whole argument. No play…no pay…no unwanted child. That would work out for both sexes.
By Billy
June 14, 2006 03:23 PM | Link to this
Justing, what the hell are you talking about? Ruth what the what? Huh? How do 5000 year-old fairy tales relate to the topic at hand?
By Archie
June 14, 2006 03:29 PM | Link to this
Justin’s 2:50 pm post makes some sense.
Now I must side with 72John versus Moc. The statistics say that most female led households are poorer so the points that 72John have made ring closer to fact.
Some guys keep talking about plan B but fellas, if you didn’t put on a condom you can’t demand her to do anything unless she had been taking pills and all of sudden decided to skip taking her birth control without telling you. It’s just like Whiley says if you bottom line don’t want any children get snipped or wear a condom what’s the problem? I was not always married so I know that you’re basically taking a risk whenever you have unprotected sex. There is no way around this in that as men we may have to sacrifice some pleasure for protection. I have heard of husbands leaving wives because the wife got pregnant and the husband didn’t want anymore children but I do know of a husband that has gotten snipped. I have a problem with the guy that left his wife. Was she taking pills and stopped on purpose? Sometimes tying the tubes doesn’t work according a woman I know. As a man I am not perfect with this but as someone suggested PULLOUT and understand you’re taking a chance with any unprotected sex.
By bud
June 14, 2006 03:29 PM | Link to this
Birth control is about control. Guys…do you want to be in control or do you want some woman to be in control? The courts will always side with women on this issue. Unless you want to allow some selfish female to tag your wallet for the next 18 years (21 in New York) YOU HAVE TO WEAR A CONDOM EACH AND EVERY TIME YOU HAVE SEX WITHOUT EXCEPTION until you’ve made the deliberate decision to sire children or you’ve gotten the vasectomy (and cleared BOTH post-vasectomy semen tests)
A woman who wants to get pregnant without your full consent can use dozens of excuses to trick you into fatherhood…
“The doctor said I can’t get pregnant” “I’m on the pill” “I just want to feel you…”
And the list goes on and on. Many guys don’t even ask…they’ll just stick it and assume that if he needed to wear a condom she would say it. That 30 second ejaculation could turn into a $100,000+ mistake.
By The72John
June 14, 2006 03:30 PM | Link to this
There’s no point in arguing with someone who doesn’t know something as basic as “it’s impossible to prove a negative”.
Again. You made an assertion. YOU are responsible for proving it’s accuracy. Without proof of an assertion the only rational response is denial of the claim.
This is a basic rule of debate. But then, “basic” seems to be about all you’re capable of.
By Julia
June 14, 2006 03:32 PM | Link to this
Thanks 72 John for your view on single moms.As a financially strugging single mom I thank you. :)
Moc-Yeah, buddy! My $300 per month support check keeps me in the lap of luxury baby! Forget the fact that daycare alone costs me $600 per month. I’m livin’ high on the hog buddy…high on that hog! Just bought myself a diamond tennis bracelet with that last $300 check. I couldn’t afford daycare and therefore couldn’t go to work to earn a paycheck-but heck, I got that jewelry INSTEAD! LOL
“…I’m movin’ on up, to the big time, I finally got a piece of the pie…”
(For those that might have missed it…I was using sarcasm.)
By The72John
June 14, 2006 03:35 PM | Link to this
theJohn72, then maybe your single friends shouldn’t have been embracing something else with open legs. Maybe that is the point to this whole argument. No play…no pay…no unwanted child. That would work out for both sexes
That little brain of yours just doesn’t work, does it…let me dumb it down for you.
Woman…happy not pregnant. Moc say…women WANT get pregnant. Get pregnant. Get money. Money make woman HAPPY. So…why woman happy…not pregnant…not pregnant mean…no money.
Mocmoc head hurt. Mocmoc go sit down.
By Julia
June 14, 2006 03:46 PM | Link to this
LOL at 72’s “mocmoc” post!!! ROFLMAO!!!
By Archie
June 14, 2006 03:47 PM | Link to this
I just saw Mara’s response to my morning post and I must say she has major comprehension problems. Because I mention church folk and christian does not mean that other religions are bad. I mentioned church folk which could be any type of religious people and I mentioned christian people because so many on this blog talk about christianity. It was a sideswipe at the conservative christian mentality that dominates the republican party. I was also speaking for people like myself that do go to church. I feel like we(people that go to church) have a duty to do some good for society. Reading and comprehension go together and if you don’t understand something don’t respond as if you do. Simply ask a question. At the mere mention of anything religious some folk get bent out of shape perhaps counselling is in order because I am not going to be apologetic for being black,church-going,liberal, and male. Since I have been reading this blog all four of those things have been attacked.
Anyway I do side with 72John in his arguments against Moc.
By Chilao
June 14, 2006 03:49 PM | Link to this
and it’s a MOOT point. Not a mute point
but points you(generic) do not care about tend to get muted. Sorry, too funny.
(think MadTV) “la la la…I can’t hear you’”
By Mocmoc
June 14, 2006 03:51 PM | Link to this
Mocmoc no like women. Mocmoc think they mean…they like gold. Mocmoc no like gold. Mocmoc like living in zoo…me like the monkeys da best. We swing from tree together…share bananas….OOO OOO AHH AHH!!!
By GOB
June 14, 2006 03:55 PM | Link to this
perhaps counselling is in order because I am not going to be apologetic for being black,church-going,liberal, and male.
Archie - I demand that you apologize!
By Monica
June 14, 2006 03:58 PM | Link to this
Hi Julia! Yes, I miss T-ball. My son wants to play soccer, so I guess we will try that in the late summer/fall - and I hate soccer! Oh well, if it makes him happy.
To all the single parents out there: you have my ultimate admiration, no matter the circumstances of how you came to be a single parent. I have two boys, my husband and I both work, and we are still stretched after day care expenses! When we had two in at the same time, we were paying $850 a month for day care. Ouch!
For the record, I’d like to say that being a mother is absolutely wonderful! I don’t share the same views as others who have posted this week. Women compare labor and delivery stories the same way men compare football injuries or car accidents. Childbirth was the most painful experience I have had (twice!), but it was worth every second. Sleepless nights? I still have them from time to time, but it’s worth every second. When those babies look into my eyes and smile, I melt every time! Not every woman sees motherhood as a burden; for me it’s a blessing.
By The72John
June 14, 2006 04:05 PM | Link to this
Archie - I demand that you apologize!
And I want reparations!
By GOB
June 14, 2006 04:07 PM | Link to this
and I hate soccer!
Boooooo…jk. Soccer is probably the healthiest sport for your kid to play other than running track (and that isnt really a sport is it??).
By Julia
June 14, 2006 04:09 PM | Link to this
Monica-we might try soccer too. And I’m with you 100% in that motherhood is a blessing!!! There’s nothing that I wouldn’t do to keep him safe. For me the best part was looking into my son’s eyes for the first time. Talk about melting your heart.
In fact, someone once said that when you have a child it’s like having your heart walking around outside your body.
By GOB
June 14, 2006 04:09 PM | Link to this
When we had two in at the same time, we were paying $850 a month for day care.
So do daycares charge in pesos now? Yikes!
By The72John
June 14, 2006 04:15 PM | Link to this
Hi Julia! Yes, I miss T-ball. My son wants to play soccer, so I guess we will try that in the late summer/fall - and I hate soccer! Oh well, if it makes him happy
Why you want to bad mouth soccer, huh? Why you gotta say stuff ‘bout soccer? And during the World Cup, too! Why! Why!
By Archie
June 14, 2006 04:23 PM | Link to this
72John,being gay has been attacked and I know you won’t take that so…but I do get the humor from you and GOB. Ann Coulter would hate me twice. What won’t people say to make a dollar?
By The72John
June 14, 2006 04:30 PM | Link to this
We’re just joshin’ Archie - no hard feelings ;-)
By Monica
June 14, 2006 04:40 PM | Link to this
Sorry 72 and others, don’t take it personally! When I was in high school, the soccer players were the biggest druggies around! But hey, I bet professional soccer players don’t take steroids while they break all time records.LOL
GOB, I don’t get the pesos comment. Too much sun has been me blonde, I guess!
By Justin
June 14, 2006 04:47 PM | Link to this
Julia has had a hard time and definitely needs more support than she receives. I still don’t understand how he was able to just pay $300 at his salary.
Basically, if fair laws are passed for equal parenting and equal financially responsibility, the children will be the winners. Also, I urge all men, whether married or single, to ask for a DNA test.
By Ladine
June 14, 2006 04:55 PM | Link to this
Sounds great to be man! Enjoy sex fully if anything happens walk away fully! That is bull!
By You play, you pay
June 14, 2006 05:06 PM | Link to this
Let me see if I understand this right. A woman tricks a man by lying to him about her birth control, then tries to get him to pay child support for an unwanted child. I believe the woman should get an extra job and pay support for the child. The child comes first, and the responsible party pays up. If she can’t pay, adoption is always an option. Perhaps the unwitting father can care for the child. This choice should be his.
By Sick&Tired
June 14, 2006 05:07 PM | Link to this
This issue is NOT Rocket Science. If you have two consenting adults (hopefully) who have decided they are both mature and responsible enough to have sex with someone that is not their LEGAL spouse, BOTH parties are responsible for protecting themselves from unwanted pregancies and STDs, including AIDS. If a woman can take birth control pills, use a diaphragm, and countless other forms of birth control, then the man should be able to find several forms of birth control for himself. Assume the worst and prepare for it. Never trust that a woman (and I am a woman) is truly on birth control. Even if she is, is she taking it faithfully; does she have regular PAP smears? These are observations and questions a man should consider before he lies down with a woman. Let us not forget the fact that if a man has made the decision that he NEVER wants children or just does not want anymore, he does have the option to have a vasectomy. Women make the decision to have hysterectomies every year and face potential of complications. Nevertheless, they go forward. Why are men so quick to insist on the woman being the one to have sterilzation procedures, when they are the ones who are always complaining about women “trapping” them? This argument is old and tired. Wrap it up OR SHUT UP!!! (and that goes both ways)
By Kyle
June 14, 2006 05:09 PM | Link to this
ok, i may have missed something here b/c i haven’t taken the time to go back and read ALL these posts. But I have noticed a bit of a theme. Many on here are saying that women go out and intentionally get pregnant so that they can “cash in.” Then the women, or men who agree with them, respond by recounting how little they recieve per month in respect to their child’s actual expenses, proving that they aren’t cashing in. When a court decides the amount of allimony that a man must pay, isn’t the man’s current income/net worth taken into consideration. aren’t men who earn more generally ordered to pay more in child support. if this is right, and i don’t know if it is, then those of you women out there who aren’t recieving sufficent amounts of money for child support are not the “gold diggers” that many have attacked earlier on this blog - you obviously were not involved with the man for his money. that being said, there are women out there who scheme to have a rich man’s baby, and will do so at any cost.
-no need to repeat the whole “a man can protect himself by not haing sex” argument - i get it, i just think its a little bit nieve for those of us who aren’t bible beaters.
By Mara
June 15, 2006 07:38 AM | Link to this
Yeah Archie. You’re right. You’re just wayyyy too deep for me I guess. I mean how could I have possibly misunderstood that when you said “we” as a “church going christian society” should help people, that you weren’t actually saying that we are a “church going christian society”? I don’t know why I couldn’t comprehend that “church folk” actually meant any type of religious people. After all, everyone knows that atheists, Buddhists, agnostics, Wicca’s, and the rest all go to church, too. It’s soooo elementary. Don’t know why I’d have trouble comprehending the things you write so very simply and clearly. But wait…could it be that…No!!!…could it somehow be that you don’t write as precisely as you think you do?! Noooo…it couldn’t possibly be your inability to write in plain and unambiguous language…oh, of course not. It’s obviously my inability to read and comprehend your straightforward and insightful discourse. So you must be right. I shouldn’t even try talking to one who’s so obviously beyond my comprehension…
Oh, and by the way…I don’t give a rat’s behind if you are black. Or liberal. Or a church-going male. You’re still an a*.
By Archie
June 15, 2006 09:02 AM | Link to this
Mara I am not the first person to post something about your lack of comprehension. I think someone used the word obtuse in describing you last week and several other posters have made veiled remarks about your comprehension.
Also,72John,Gob I knew you guys were kidding. Also the Barna group estimates 40 percent of Americans attend church weekly and it has been said that Christianity is the majority religion. That does not mean that people aren’t atheists,agnostics,Buddhists,etc. We have had discussions about universal healthcare in the past and in those discussions it has been suggested that there should be more compassion coming from the christian community.
By Julia
June 15, 2006 09:04 AM | Link to this
And on that fine note…good morning everyone!;)
Are we going to have another day of “Is it the man or the woman that’s solely responsible for having sex and conception taking place?”
Orrrrr….are they (gasp) BOTH responsible?
Hmmm…that’s a tough one I must admit. (insert sarcasm disclaimer)
By GDLF
June 15, 2006 09:14 AM | Link to this
This blog sounds like a golddigger support group.
By Melis99
June 15, 2006 09:19 AM | Link to this
Monica!!! 850.00 a month? Count yourself blessed. Try 1280.:-(
And for the woman getting 300.00 a month. Get yourself another lawyer. It should be 17-23% if you live in GA. Not saying to milk the guy but you also have to think about the child. What about this childs future. After the child gets old enough that you don’t have to pay 1280 in daycare you should be thinking about saving for the child to go to college. The dad’s are not required to send them to college. (Remember this is not the childs fault. They are the one’s that get hurt the most out of this. We should at least restore some since of security and happiness to their lives after this situation.)
I agree with Sick&Tired that the protection should not rest soley on the women besides it’s a lot easier and quicker for a man to get sterilized than for a woman and a lot easier to reverse the process.
My best solution for this would be in the case of single or married. As punishmet make both parent live in a split level home. (Mom upstairs and Dad in the basement, or vis versa) and share responsibility until the child reaches the age of 8 or 9 or until one gets married, then they can decide economically if this is the best support arrangement. At least both would not have a problem meeting obligations and would have money left over. And if you don’t want to be bothered stay in your corner of the house.
By Kyle
June 15, 2006 09:22 AM | Link to this
i think i agree with julia. i understand that both parties assume some risk in the possibility of a child when they decide to have sex, and i also understand that our ultimate concern in this situation should be with the well being of the child - not whether or not the man can save a few bucks. but something just bothers me when one party to the act (either the man or woman - but the majority of the time its the woman) can trick the other into a pregnancy and suffer no consequences. i don’t have the answer to this problem, its just seems odd that someone can be so decietful and then carry on as if they did nothing wrong.
By How
June 15, 2006 09:25 AM | Link to this
It would be interesting to hear how some of the single women here (not married at conception)managed to get themselves into the situation that they are in. And in the case of the ones crying about low child support when the man “should be paying more”, maybe there is something that they are not telling us that factored into the judge’s decision.
By Julia
June 15, 2006 09:32 AM | Link to this
Since someone asked, the father moved several states away and court took place where HE lives. Since I didn’t have the $1200 for a lawyer I used the child support agency. They are the ones who failed in many ways I won’t go into here. If I HAD a lawyer it would have been different. But the laws in that state are different from Georgia. It’s not a straight percentage of the non-custodial parent’s income.
The father lied in court on numerous issues and falsified his income. But that’s another story….
I could get the support agency to try to modify it now that it’s been over 3 years since the last order. But they may mess things up once again. If I had the money for a lawyer I would get it modified. But again, I don’t have the money for one right now-especially since they just cut my pay where I work. :(
By Billy
June 15, 2006 09:36 AM | Link to this
My best solution for this would be in the case of single or married. As punishmet make both parent live in a split level home. (Mom upstairs and Dad in the basement, or vis versa) and share responsibility until the child reaches the age of 8 or 9 or until one gets married, then they can decide economically if this is the best support arrangement. At least both would not have a problem meeting obligations and would have money left over. And if you don’t want to be bothered stay in your corner of the house.
That is completely asinine.
By The72John
June 15, 2006 09:40 AM | Link to this
This blog sounds like a golddigger support group
Or possibly any argument that isn’t painted in stark shades of black and white is too complex for you to follow, so you are forced to fall back on childish high school labels and trite bluster.
By For the single parents
June 15, 2006 09:46 AM | Link to this
Well we’re movin on up, To the east side. To a deluxe apartment in the sky. Movin on up To the east side. We finally got a piece of the pie.
Fish don’t fry in the kitchen; Beans don’t burn on the grill. Took a whole lotta tryin’ Just to get up that hill. Now we’re up in the big leagues Gettin’ our turn at bat. As long as we live, it’s you and me baby There ain’t nothin wrong with that.
Well we’re movin on up, To the east side. To a deluxe apartment in the sky. Movin on up To the east side. We finally got a piece of the pie.
By nowweknow
June 15, 2006 09:49 AM | Link to this
Julia it sounds like you need to get off your @ss and get a job. You’re right. $300.00 won’t feed the bulldog or your child. Something about your story smells. Maybe you should stop feeling sorry for yourself, stop whining and playing the victim and go to work. Then you won’t have to depend on a man to prop you up. By the way. Were you employed when you got pregnant?
By The72John
June 15, 2006 09:58 AM | Link to this
Julia it sounds like you need to get off your @ss and get a job. You’re right. $300.00 won’t feed the bulldog or your child. Something about your story smells. Maybe you should stop feeling sorry for yourself, stop whining and playing the victim and go to work. Then you won’t have to depend on a man to prop you up. By the way. Were you employed when you got pregnant?
Why does every idiot who has dropped in this week assume that the single mothers who are posting on here are unemployed or on welfare? Single parenting is incredibly time consuming and incredibly expensive.
I’d love to see you self-righteous, unthinking morons try it. I know I couldn’t do it, and I doubt you could either.
By Julia
June 15, 2006 10:01 AM | Link to this
Julia it sounds like you need to get off your @ss and get a job.
What’s your problem? I’ve worked since I was 16 years old thank you very much.
Maybe you should stop feeling sorry for yourself, stop whining and playing the victim and go to work.
First of all, I DON’Y feel sorry for myself buddy. I was explaining my situation because people ASKED. I never ever said I was anyone’s “victim”. And I work my butt off from the time I wake up in the morning until I go to bed at night. How about YOU?
Then you won’t have to depend on a man to prop you up. By the way. Were you employed when you got pregnant?
Look buddy, I don’t “depend on a man to prop be up”. I DO however expect my son’s “father” to financially contribute to HIS support. And yes, I’ve been employed since I was 16 years old.
Why do you think the mother is the ONLY one that needs to support the children??? Why does the father get to not only contribute ZERO of his time but ZERo of his money? is that what you think is FAIR???
nowweknow-Good morning to you too by the way. Maybe you should get off your butt and get off the blog before your mom finds out and cuts your allowance.
By Julia
June 15, 2006 10:09 AM | Link to this
Thank you 72John! You’re the best!
For the record, I’ve been in the same industry for 18 years and until 2 years ago worked 6 days a week instead of just 5. Not sitting home on welfare and not flipping burgers thank you. It costs me $600 per month in childcare just so I can GO to work. Whinning-no. Complaining-no. Just stating the FACTS as a single mom.
By what the heck?
June 15, 2006 10:16 AM | Link to this
So Julia, if you work full time how do you stay on the blog all day?
By Whiley
June 15, 2006 10:18 AM | Link to this
LOL it’s times like this that reminds me of why I never wanted to become pregnant, birth anything, or have to beg for pennies from a dead beat father. THEN get bashed for being the bad one.
To answer that question, and any woman knows what I’m talking about, since I’ve endured cramps most of my life, I have a Damn good idea what giving birth is about. NOT something I wanted to ever, EVER go through.
I love my life ! Childfree by choice ! hehe
By Billy
June 15, 2006 10:18 AM | Link to this
No kidding, John.
By Single Dad
June 15, 2006 10:21 AM | Link to this
nowweknow: Something about you smells.
Until you’re walked a mile in someone else’s shoes-SHUT THE F&(% UP!
As a single dad I also know how hard it is to make ends meet. You need to shut up because you don’t know hat you’re talking…um, I mean RANTING about!
By nowweknow
June 15, 2006 10:21 AM | Link to this
Maybe you should have thought of all this before having sex. Obviously the court believed the “lying” man in your story too. And how pray tell did he falsify his income. If you think he did that call the IRS. You have avenues.
By Kyle
June 15, 2006 10:23 AM | Link to this
ok, this might p** some people off, and i’m not saying that i agree with it - but something just occured to me. in diane’s article, and it has been echoed by some on this blog, she says that a man doesn’t have the same rights in pregnancy decisions (whether to have the baby or not, adoption, etc…) as the mother b/c its the mother’s body that is in play and she is the one that has a uterus. fair enough, the woman has the majority, if not all, of the rights in this process. but with those rights, doesn’t some responsibility of the exercise of those rights follow. not saying that the man should get off, but the majority of the decision making in this whole situation is made by the woman (besides the decision to have sex, hopefully mutual), so does that mean that the woman should shoulder more responsibility for something that was her decision?
-just a thought
By Julia
June 15, 2006 10:27 AM | Link to this
So Julia, if you work full time how do you stay on the blog all day?
Does this mean everyone else on the blog is UNEMPLOYED??? Hmmmmm…..I didn’t realize that.
Not that it’s any of your business but I work on a computer all day and when work is slow I check in on the blog. Unfortunately it’s dead as a rock at work right now so I get to talk to you guys.
As soon as it picks up though you won’t see me on here-does that make you happy?
By GOB
June 15, 2006 10:34 AM | Link to this
Am I alone in thinking that “nowweknow” is a regular with a different handle trying to stir things up?
By nowweknow
June 15, 2006 10:35 AM | Link to this
Good question what the heck.
By Billy
June 15, 2006 10:35 AM | Link to this
Julia, I’m guessing that your work situation is the same as most of ours. I know I sit at a computer most of the day, but I will occasionally have to do some work now and then.
By what the heck?
June 15, 2006 10:35 AM | Link to this
Yes, Julia, that would make me happy. Since you said you worked from the time you wake up until the time you go to bed, it was kind of hard to understand you having so much free time for playing on the internet.
By Julia
June 15, 2006 10:36 AM | Link to this
nowweknow-that’s all of the info on me you are going to be given. If you were a nice person or someone truly concerned about my situation I would answer you. But since you’re only agenda here is slamming me for being a single mom then I’m through answering your assinine questions.
By Billy
June 15, 2006 10:39 AM | Link to this
No, GOB, you aren’t
By Julia
June 15, 2006 10:43 AM | Link to this
So, I wonder which regular hates me so much? I thought I got along fairly well with most of the folks on here. (Guess I was wrong.)
By The72John
June 15, 2006 10:46 AM | Link to this
I don’t know, GOB…most of our actual regulars are more articulate than “now we shmoe”. I’m guessing it’s a lurker who has his panties in a bundle because he’s having to pay child support.
By nowweknow
June 15, 2006 10:46 AM | Link to this
Likely story Julia. Your exact words yesterday at 3:32 p.m.: ” I couldn’t afford daycare so I couldn’t go to work to earn a paycheck, but heck I got that jewelry INSTEAD”.
Which is it Julia? Maybe it is not the “lying” man that speaks with a forked tongue. Something smells in your case.
By Julia
June 15, 2006 10:51 AM | Link to this
There are different types of work for those of you that didn’t know it. No, I don’t do phsical labor at my job such as digging ditches. Some people are sitting at a computer when thay are at work.
nowweknow/what the heck/whoever you are-My sole purpose in life is not to make YOU happy. So, maybe I’ll make sure and stick around the blog ok. ;)
Well, I know it’s not Jack, Monica, Chuck, 72John, Renee, GOB, Net, Tim or Billy. Hmmmm…..I wonder who that leaves?
By Billy
June 15, 2006 10:53 AM | Link to this
nowweknow, youmoron, she was using sarcasm.
By nowweknow
June 15, 2006 10:54 AM | Link to this
Julia, you and Single Dad to need to hook up. That would be a match made in heaven for both of you. A virtual 24/7 pity party. Help each other out here.
By Julia
June 15, 2006 10:55 AM | Link to this
Your exact words yesterday at 3:32 p.m.: ” I couldn’t afford daycare so I couldn’t go to work to earn a paycheck, but heck I got that jewelry INSTEAD”.
Did you not read the end where I said I was being SARCASTIC?????? Do you not know what sarcasm is?
By GOB
June 15, 2006 10:57 AM | Link to this
Yeah, it could just be a lurker, but I still think it is someone just trying to stir things up. The criticism just seems too targeted at one person, and really came out of nowhere.
By The72John
June 15, 2006 10:58 AM | Link to this
Likely story Julia. Your exact words yesterday at 3:32 p.m.: ” I couldn’t afford daycare so I couldn’t go to work to earn a paycheck, but heck I got that jewelry INSTEAD”
I believe this is the paragraph you refer to…-
Moc-Yeah, buddy! My $300 per month support check keeps me in the lap of luxury baby! Forget the fact that daycare alone costs me $600 per month. I’m livin’ high on the hog buddy…high on that hog! Just bought myself a diamond tennis bracelet with that last $300 check. I couldn’t afford daycare and therefore couldn’t go to work to earn a paycheck-but heck, I got that jewelry INSTEAD! LOL
Now, it’s possible I’m mistaken here…granted, I’m not usually wrong about these things, but it is within the realm of possibility…this is sarcasm…Julia isn’t actually saying she bought a diamond bracelet, she’s sneering at the idea that child support payments are used to live a luxurious lifestyle.
Most people wouldn’t need this explained to them, but apparently your level of intellectual development is sub-par.
By GOB
June 15, 2006 10:58 AM | Link to this
Why you want to bad mouth soccer, huh? Why you gotta say stuff ‘bout soccer? And during the World Cup, too! Why! Why!
John - Were you being sarcastic here? I am trying to figure out if I should gain or lose respect for you.
By what the heck?
June 15, 2006 10:59 AM | Link to this
Nobody said you were digging ditches, Julia. But if your job is sitting at a computer, aren’t you supposed to do something that actually benefits the company? They pay to to whine on the blog all day? Do they know this?
By kimberly
June 15, 2006 11:05 AM | Link to this
I’m reading a lot of talk about who’s right and who’s wrong. Does that really matter to the child? What about LOVE? What about letting that child know that you CARE about what they need, and that you’ll be there.
Suggestion to non-custodial parents everywhere: Forget for a minute about your own personal baggage and needs. STICK A CROWBAR IN YOUR WALLET and pay for the braces for your kids’ teeth why doncha? Custodial parent will probably do all the sneaking out of work early to make those regular appointments, listen to the whining, and make sure the kids brush properly and wear their retainers. Your child lives in a narcissistic superficial society, so BITE THE BULLET and pay for the braces, mmmm-kay? Don’t be an a—h—-. Your kid needs a healthy smile, and doesn’t care who’s right or wrong. It’s YOUR JOB to care, or at least pretend.
By Alma
June 15, 2006 11:05 AM | Link to this
I am a woman and I have been having sex for 30 of the 51 years that I have been on this earth and I have never been pregnant unless I wanted to be. I have a hard time feeling sorry for some of you here that wallow in self pity and bitterness about something that YOU had total control of from the beginning. It is our body and we have total control of it. We have total control of whether or not we have sex and seeing that as indisputable truth, a majority of the responsibility does lie with us.
By GOB
June 15, 2006 11:06 AM | Link to this
John - I am going to say you are right, seeing as the last line of her post was :
(For those that might have missed it…I was using sarcasm.)
By nowweknow
June 15, 2006 11:09 AM | Link to this
theJohn72, you are a complete idiot. Obviously her statement is a contradiction regarding her employment status.
By The72John
June 15, 2006 11:11 AM | Link to this
John - Were you being sarcastic here? I am trying to figure out if I should gain or lose respect for you.
I love soccer man, love it.
McBride looked like a freakin CHUMP Monday. What the heck…every time a US striker got within 20 yards of the box they forgot how to dribble.
By Mara
June 15, 2006 11:13 AM | Link to this
John, GOB - doesn’t whattheheck’s writing style remind you of someone? Someone who said bye-bye not too long ago? Whose tactics usually involved baiting someone until an argument broke out and then feigning innocence and hurt feelings? Ring any bells?
Julia - never mind the idiots. We don’t doubt that you earn your keep :^)
By Barbara
June 15, 2006 11:14 AM | Link to this
theJohn72, you are not exactly the brightest bulb in the pack either. You sound like one of those guys that tries to be the shoulder to cry for every basket case female they encounter. Maybe you and Julia should arrange a date. Obviously neither of you has anything else to do.
By The72John
June 15, 2006 11:16 AM | Link to this
theJohn72, you are a complete idiot. Obviously her statement is a contradiction regarding her employment status
Uh huh, because obviously your reading comprehension is superior to everyone elses. Go back to reading the Highlights magazine in the doctor’s office, twit. It’s more your speed.
By Whiley
June 15, 2006 11:18 AM | Link to this
Julia, Here’s your sexist pig paintgun. Go at it. You can try to explain to sexist pigs how hard it is to be a single mom forever, even have proof of it, but it will only fall on clogged ears. Sexist pigs only care about their right to non condom use & ability to walk away from all the pregancies they helped to create.
AHH the paintgun color today is pastel green.
By GOB
June 15, 2006 11:18 AM | Link to this
I love soccer man, love it.
Good man. I have been taking long lunchs for last week and have the Tivo working overtime. Mcbride wasnt good, but his game is in the air, and he got no service all game. Beasley was an embarassment. He was afraid to take a single defender on. Hopefully he watches the Italy game from the bench.
By what the heck?
June 15, 2006 11:19 AM | Link to this
Alma, you are right. I have never seen so many people whine and moan about things that they had total control over. Poor babies. I have had (2) kids, and I have never gotten pregnant unless I was trying either. Some on here are worse than others, but Julia is just so full of self pity, and Wiley can tell you the pain of childbirth just from have had monthly cramps! Wow, unbelievable.
By GOB
June 15, 2006 11:20 AM | Link to this
Mara - I was thinking he might start calling us all pinkos again, but yeah, the writing style is similiar.
By Chilao
June 15, 2006 11:20 AM | Link to this
Pity not everyone can multi-task and have multiple PC software sessions open, or even have two (or more) browsers open. It really is rather elementary. And some of us might in fact be cruising the web all day, blogging all day, and are simply paid to be here when needed.
By Julia
June 15, 2006 11:20 AM | Link to this
what the heck…aka “mocmoc”-you worry about your job and I’ll worry about mine ok. And why are you so concerned about my blogging and employment status and not everyone else who blogs?
Maybe mocmoc mad because gorilla no give him banana this morning?
By what the heck?
June 15, 2006 11:24 AM | Link to this
I agree Barbara. Oh, but I forgot, Julia works from the time she gets up until the time she goes to bed. Yeah, right.
By Billy
June 15, 2006 11:25 AM | Link to this
Nobody said you were digging ditches, Julia. But if your job is sitting at a computer, aren’t you supposed to do something that actually benefits the company? They pay to to whine on the blog all day? Do they know this?
wth, wtf? I guess the same applies to you as well? Are you not working now?
I know that I sit at the computer and do various things all day. Maybe a fourth of the day I’m doing actual work. But I am still working, as my job is to take calls and place orders and such. Waiting by the phone, whether I’m on this blog or not, is still work. I can drop what I’m doing the second I have to do something job related. For instance, I am only now returning to this post, one I began at about 11:05. I’ll be here all day, but I’ll still get my job done.
By Julia
June 15, 2006 11:27 AM | Link to this
Thanks Mara! I apprecaite that. (No, I don’t think it’s FM though.)
72John-Maybe these new characters are mocmoc who’s still mad at us since yesterday?
By Billy
June 15, 2006 11:30 AM | Link to this
wth, your comment about Whiley is the only one you’ve made that shows any sense of reality.
Julia — Don’t answer this if you feel it’s too personal or anything, but are you divorced from the father of your kid(s)? I only ask this because WTH/NWK might STFU if you did consciously choose to get pregnant, only to have your now-ex walk out at a later date, leaving you to care for them.
By The72John
June 15, 2006 11:31 AM | Link to this
Hmm…why do I think that all of these strangers popping up and engaging in this self-congragulatory blog version of a circle jerk are actually all the same person?
Could it be their relatively illiterate writing styles, or their equally substanceless posts? Or could it be that they have all seemed to materialize at the same time out of thin air?
By kimberly
June 15, 2006 11:31 AM | Link to this
Sounds like the lucko-loonies slipped out of their restraints again, and are roaming the halls unsupervised. Somebody call Nurse Ratchet!
By Billy
June 15, 2006 11:31 AM | Link to this
And some of us might in fact be cruising the web all day, blogging all day, and are simply paid to be here when needed.
Like me!
By Julia
June 15, 2006 11:35 AM | Link to this
Thanks again 72! And thanks Whiley! I’ll gladly take that paintgun today…hehe.
DO you think we can move on from the “let’s bash Julia the single mom” to something else???? (Just a wild and wacky thought.)
By GOB
June 15, 2006 11:40 AM | Link to this
Hmm…why do I think that all of these strangers popping up and engaging in this self-congragulatory blog version of a circle jerk are actually all the same person?
I dont think there is any doubt that it is one person.
By Julia
June 15, 2006 11:41 AM | Link to this
Sorry guys, I guess I’ve been too fired up to do a spell-check on my posts. Now that I’m calm maybe I can spell again! LOL
By Mara
June 15, 2006 11:48 AM | Link to this
Chilao - Pity not everyone can multi-task and have multiple PC software sessions open, or even have two (or more) browsers open. It really is rather elementary.
that is, unless you’re running dial-up through your 56K modem
By GOB
June 15, 2006 11:49 AM | Link to this
Off to watch some World Cup…
By The72John
June 15, 2006 11:50 AM | Link to this
DO you think we can move on from the “let’s bash Julia the single mom” to something else????
No…no…I’m not down with that. I don’t think you’ve been chastised enough for your many, many transgressions and sins.
We’ll let you know when you’ve had enough. Dang females. Corrupting the menfolk and such.
By Chilao
June 15, 2006 11:54 AM | Link to this
that is, unless you’re running dial-up through your 56K modem
LMAO - that a whole separate issue, but not many EMPLOYERS still doing that nowadays. Not many individuals either, except me and a few others..LOL
but I do do two browsers at home(sometimes), on 56K modem (getting 30K). Harder with XP than NT though. M/S put the screws on that with XP/SP2 release.
By Chilao
June 15, 2006 11:56 AM | Link to this
It really is rather elementary.
conceptually, conceptually. LOL talking the mechanics, not the bandwidth technology. click. open. “elementary, my dear watson”
By Julia
June 15, 2006 11:56 AM | Link to this
I think most of us on the blog have been put down for one reason or another and people have tried to make us feel like less of a person. Whether it’s being a single mom, being gay, being black, being a woman, being religious, being non-religious, being short, being fat, being handicapped, or whatever the case may be.
One thing is true-nothing anyone ever SAYS to you will make it so. As long as you are strong and know who you are on the inside it doesn’t matter what the jerks of this world SAY.
Because there’s always gonna be the jerks out there who try to belittle everyone else to make themselves seem better.
By The72John
June 15, 2006 11:57 AM | Link to this
Gob, so far my favorite non-game related World Cup event has been the commentary during the Mexico/Iran game. The whole “Iran’s government is controversial but that doesn’t matter because this is a sporting even” thing, followed like clockwork by snide comments about Iran and the players on the field for the rest of the match.
I was cracking up. Especially when he said something about “I wonder how those players felt when they saw the holocaust memorial”. As if - A) Because the Iranian President is a Holocaust denier then everyone in Iran must be to and B) Several members of the Iranian team don’t play in the Bundisliga and live in Germany most of the year anyway.
By Chilao
June 15, 2006 12:00 PM | Link to this
the other thing about single moms I cannot recall has been pointed out well, is this concept called divorce.
By Barbara
June 15, 2006 12:03 PM | Link to this
How is it that you failed to to control your own reproductive system properly Julia? I guess when you decided to bump uglies you were certain that you wouldn’t get pregnant. How is that most sexually active women manage to avoid pregnancy and others just don’t seem to be able? Did you really want to be pregnant? Want the guy to marry you? Or was it that you just said what the heck and did it without thoughts of the consequence? Well it was probably one encounter that you should have resisted seeing as it now consumes your entire being and is causing you to feel sorry for yourself instead of getting on down the highway of life. Get over it Julia. It is what it is and you had total control of it to begin with. If you can’t properly protect yourself, don’t have sex. Because one thing is beyond doubt here. It is the child that results from lack of control that pays the real price.
By Whiley
June 15, 2006 12:04 PM | Link to this
“Wiley can tell you the pain of childbirth just from have had monthly cramps! Wow, unbelievable.”
Aren’t labor pains cramps x 100? Since cramps ARE exteremely painful for up to 2 1/2 days. (for me anyway EVERY MONTH FOR MOST ALL MY LIFE) Non presciption pain pills do very little. SOMEONE please tell me how to get strong pain pills without Dr’s thinking you just want them for fun.
HAILL NO labor is NOTHING I WANTED TO EXPERIENCE. So yes I have a good idea what the pain of childbirth is like. From the looks of it I made a wise choice considering what a lot of people really think of a pregnant woman. Married or not. LOL like a husband validates you as a person.
By Chilao
June 15, 2006 12:12 PM | Link to this
So if a woman marries, has a child, and the guy splits, it is her fault for bumping uglies with him in the first place? Always blame the whorish woman? Gotta love it, it is so classic. There appear to be several articles in this month’s Playboy about the religious rights real motivation for alot of their activities is directly related to their need to control everybody elses’ sexuality. Nothing new to me, but they look like interesting articles. In Mailbox just yesterday so…
By Billy
June 15, 2006 12:17 PM | Link to this
Whiley, while you won’t find me defending much of anything Barbara/whattheheck/nowweknow/f*** says, I’m going to agree on the childbirth/cramps point. So you have cramps. Big deal. “Cramps x100?” Are you serious? That’s like saying that I’d have a good idea of what it feels like to be decapitated because I’ve cut myself shaving several times.
I’m not trying to offend anyone here, but I just cannot believe that a woman who has not had a baby has a better idea of what it feels like to give birth than a man who sat by his wife’s side for 26 hours of labor just because she has cramps.
By Billy
June 15, 2006 12:20 PM | Link to this
No doubt, Chilao. Speaking of the religious right, the FDA finally approved the HPV vaccine. Why hasn’t that been brought up yet? The fundies on the right have tried their damnedest to block the vaccine’s approval, even though it could save thousands of women’s lives each year in the U.S. alone, because they believe disease, along with babies, is God’s punishment for having sex. They think more women will have sex if they know they can’t get HPV, the leading cause of cervical cancer.
By Passin Thru
June 15, 2006 12:22 PM | Link to this
Your body is like your house. You own it. If you allow folks to party in it and it gets messed up, who’s fault is it? The party goer or the home owner? Who ultimately bears most of the responsibility? How could it have been avoided to begin with? That is the point alot of posters are trying to make.
By Whiley
June 15, 2006 12:29 PM | Link to this
Barbara, BACK OFF. Since pregnancy is a risk, then even married women should not have sex? OK tomorrow all women stop having sex. Watch all the whiny baby men fall apart. Within a month somebody would finally come up with a fool proof birth control that everybody could take.
Barbara, sexist pig, not everybody can take a hormonal birth control pill or shot.
And guess what? Nobody is perfect. All humans can make mistakes. That moron football player that almost killed himself not wearing a motorcycle helmet is a good example.
Both men & women get carried away, drink too much, are talked into things. IT HAPPENS.
If two people create a baby, both people are financially responsible. Notice only the sexist pigs complain about paying child support. Are they also proud they don’t even lift a finger to even try to help raise their kids?
Only sexist pigs want fathers to have the ability to easily walk away from their own children. Only sexist pigs criticize single working moms for doing everything themselves.
By Whiley
June 15, 2006 12:37 PM | Link to this
“So you have cramps. Big deal. “Cramps x100?” Are you serious? “
YES SEXIST PIG I’m serious. You are obviously a sexist pig man because if you even had a clue how painful cramps were you’d shut your sexist pig mouth.
EVERY friend of mine that has given birth told me labor started off as cramps then got worse & worse.
Since cramps are EXTREMELY painful for me & most women, it is not trivial & it IS a big deal. There’s no stopping our lives when we go through this either. We’re just told to shut up & deal with it. Well, only from the pigs.
Only SEXIST STUPID MEN don’t give a damn about that. Since it’s “natural” right?
THERE you got the biggest Sexist Pig Paintgun shot.
Time to reload.
By Billy
June 15, 2006 12:41 PM | Link to this
Whiley:Sexist pigs::Faux News:Liberals
It’s like a broken record.
By what the heck?
June 15, 2006 12:46 PM | Link to this
Billy, No I am not working now. Some folks have computers at home. So it is my time to do what I want. If I was on the blog crying all day, I would never state, as Julia did, that I work from the time I get up till the time I go to bed. NOT. So since I am not working,and no one is paying me to work, I am not cheating any company out of their money. BTW, my husband works and takes care of me, and doesn’t care if I am on the computer all day if that’s what I want to do. That’s the difference in just jumping in and spreading it, and making a wise choice.
By Barbara
June 15, 2006 12:49 PM | Link to this
So I guess you also hate women that disagree with you too, huh Whiley? When truth be told, sometime it takes a woman to see through another ones BS.
By Whiley
June 15, 2006 12:52 PM | Link to this
“It’s like a broken record.”
Sure is. When you stand up to Sexist pigs, and there are a lot, they HATE IT.
But Sexist Pigs need to be stood up to & corrected, even if it takes spraying them with paintguns so the rest of the public can avoid them.
Next color, bright pastel ORANGE !
By Whiley
June 15, 2006 01:01 PM | Link to this
“So I guess you also hate women that disagree with you too, huh Whiley? When truth be told, sometime it takes a woman to see through another ones BS.”
BWAAAHHHH AHHHH AHHHHHHHHHHH ! Barbara, if you aren’t a man, then for sure you are one of those bible beater fetus lovers.
A WOMAN who is a sexist pig is a sad sad pitiful pig.
“splat” ! paintgun Female sexist pigs are the worst because they raise their female children to be dependent non-thinkers. Their daughters grow up to be ashamed of themselves & their sexuality. Their only goals is life is to be a good mother & homemaker.
It’s easy to spot female sexist pigs because they blame everything on women, men no matter what shouldn’t be held responsible for anything. Independent & strong women who stand up to BS are a threat.
By The72John
June 15, 2006 01:04 PM | Link to this
BTW, my husband works and takes care of me, and doesn’t care if I am on the computer all day if that’s what I want to do.
Mmm…now the truth begins to come out. Someone is sounding more and more like a prim little religious fundy who thinks that the woman’s place is in the home. Sounds like SOMEONE is threatened by women who have careers and don’t let their big, strong hubby take care of them.
Sounds like someone’s never done a lick of work in someone’s life, and if someone even went to college, someone probably spent most of her time sashaying around at sorority galas trying to get her MRS.
Isn’t it always the narrowest people who are the quickest to judge other people’s lives.
By Monica
June 15, 2006 01:04 PM | Link to this
*How is it that you failed to to control your own reproductive system properly Julia? *
Barbara, how long have you been reading this blog? Julia is NOT a whiner. Someone asked about her situation and she told them.
Nowyouknow, whattheheck, and any others I have missed, lay off Julia!
Julia, I know that you can fend for yourself, but I’m tired of seeing you as a target when you have not deserved to be.
By Mara
June 15, 2006 01:05 PM | Link to this
so whattheheck sits around all day on the computer leeching off her(?) husband and then has the balls to lecture Julia on whether she’s working hard enough? Sounds about right, for the type…
By Billy
June 15, 2006 01:13 PM | Link to this
WTH — STFU. Please. Quit trolling and leave us to our blog.
Whiley — You are certifiable. Yes. Shut up and deal with it. I don’t doubt that your cramps hurt. But maybe I also experience cramps. Maybe I have chronic dysentery. I don’t, but you have no way of knowing that. I have had more than one case of explosive diarrhea, though, and you know what generally comes with that? Cramps. The kind where it feels like your entire gastro-intestinal tract is trying to turn itself inside out. I know cramps, too. I also know colonoscopies.
I’ve blown out my knee. I’ve had my wisdom teeth removed. Surgically. I have chronic pain in my thighs that comes and goes. But when it comes, it stays for two or three days. I have to double the recommended dosage of OTC painkillers just so I can sit at my desk. Or stand. Or lie down.
Men’s lack of regular monthly cramping does not mean that they don’t understand pain. They might not know cramps. They definitely don’t know childbirth. But my pain may be closer to childbirth than yours is. You don’t know. I don’t know. Have a baby, then we’ll talk. Until then, you have no more idea of what childbirth is like than I do. So cram it, uberbitch.
By Brian Curtis
June 15, 2006 01:14 PM | Link to this
Kyle: Increased control leading to increased responsiblity? Now that’s just crazy talk!
Look, folks: Thanks to birth control (and abortion, when necessary), no one needs to be “saddled” with an unwanted kid, ever. Birth control is available—USE IT.
And if it fails, Plan B and similar remedies are available—USE THEM.
And if they don’t work, abortion is a hard-won option—USE IT. If you’re not comfortable with that, there’s adoption agencies—USE THEM.
Nobody—nobody—is forced to raise a kid on their own, barring accidental deaths in the family.
Complaining about how tough it is to be a single mother tends to gloss over the fact that you chose that when you had the kid. Unless the man involved has died in a tragic blimp accident, you CHOSE to have a kid and raise it alone, instead of terminating it when you had the chance… or even giving it up for adoption after it was born.
I hear that upkeep and maintenance on a yacht can be a big headache, too. But it’s something you CHOOSE to buy. If you don’t want the hassle, don’t make that choice. It’s very simple, and you don’t even have to give up sex! Just be sensible in your mattress-frolicking and make sensible decisions if something goes wrong.
I’m sorry, but painting single parents as noble martyrs just doesn’t impress me. Choice. Choice. Choice. Women fought for it, women have it, so don’t complain when you make it and then regret it afterwards.
By Mara
June 15, 2006 01:15 PM | Link to this
Billy - on the one hand I agree that it takes someone who has actually had a baby to fully appreciate how much (or how little) pain is involved, but Whiley also has a point that, according to those who do know, menstrual cramps are a pale comparison to the real thing. I’ve got sisters, neices and friends who have had children that’ve told me the same thing. That’s not to say I know how it feels, but either way, I don’t think I want to experience it….
By kimberly
June 15, 2006 01:19 PM | Link to this
Julia knows better than to give any credence to that hateful screech-tw@t (the one whose husband ingores her, so she spends all day trying to make other people feel as bad about themselves as she does.)
By Barbara
June 15, 2006 01:21 PM | Link to this
I feel so sorry for you Whiney, I mean Whiley. If it weren’t for wallowing in self pity, you probably wouldn’t have any life at all. And talking about broken records. I hope that your day in and day out woe is me wailings make you happy. Otherwise you will end up some bitter old crone that goes to the grave blaming everyone else for your miseries when it is you that shot yourself in the foot to begin with. But it will be ok Whiley. Crack open another beer, light another cigarette, and dream of all the paintball wars you can fight. Or, you could actually get over your self pity and loathing and do something with your life other than feeling sorry for yourself.
By OMG
June 15, 2006 01:24 PM | Link to this
Wiley is no doubt the silliest person I have ever encountered. Are you sure you are not 9 years old with your “get your paintgun” BS. I think a 9MM would work very nicely on you. You compare cramps to having a child? Are you crazy? Oh yeah, I think that has been established.
By GWB
June 15, 2006 01:26 PM | Link to this
Thank you Brian Curtis! You just nailed it.
By Billy
June 15, 2006 01:26 PM | Link to this
BC — I agree, but in addition to the blimp crashes some women lose their husbands or boyfriends because the guys are jackasses and just up and leave. I have a little more sympathy for these women, I guess, because I really see that as one of the worst things a man can do to a woman — tell her you’re committed to her then leave her for another woman. While pregnant or with a child.
In cases of divorce where there is no fault/equal fault, I would hope the two parties could work out an amicable arrangement.
By Billy
June 15, 2006 01:27 PM | Link to this
…that hateful screech-tw@t…
hehehehehe
By The72John
June 15, 2006 01:30 PM | Link to this
Complaining about how tough it is to be a single mother tends to gloss over the fact that you chose that when you had the kid. Unless the man involved has died in a tragic blimp accident, you CHOSE to have a kid and raise it alone, instead of terminating it when you had the chance… or even giving it up for adoption after it was born
Brian,
I’m rather surprised at you. You are generally more astute than this. Not every single parent started out as a single parent, and tragic death in a baloon accident is certainly not the only circumstance that explains why the spouse is no longer in the picture.
By Billy
June 15, 2006 01:31 PM | Link to this
…menstrual cramps are a pale comparison…
Mara, my definition of a pale comparison is “only slightly akin to” or something to that effect. I’ve no doubt that cramps can give a slight idea of the pain of childbirth, but so can the combination of explosive diarrhea and watching the person you love most in the world go through a 26 hour labor and a two week C-section recovery after two months of bed rest with preeclampsyia.
By Billy
June 15, 2006 01:32 PM | Link to this
that hateful screech-tw@t (the one whose husband ingores her…)
You had to add that last part or we might think this was about Whiley…
By Julia
June 15, 2006 01:35 PM | Link to this
Thanks Monica and Mara. You guys are awesome!!!
By Mara
June 15, 2006 01:36 PM | Link to this
big “HUZZAH” for Brian!!! Well said!
By WWJD
June 15, 2006 01:40 PM | Link to this
Is Whiley really Andy from the other blog?
By what the heck
June 15, 2006 01:52 PM | Link to this
Monica, This is a public blog. You cannot tell me to lay off. It is none of your business if I think Julia is a whiner. You need to mind your own business. I will post as I see fit and you can drag you big ol’ crooked warted witches nose out of my business. I understand you think of yourself as manly and defending someone’s honer, but no one would know she is a whiner had she not whined in the first place (that is between working from the time she gets up until the time she goes to bed.
By kimberly
June 15, 2006 01:52 PM | Link to this
Brian, I cheer 95% of what you write on all these boards, and I understand your lack of understanding on the issue of motherhood, since your Creator made you sans ovaries. The drive to reproduce and nurture that is inherent in many (but not all) women is more powerful than you think. Just as a young man’s clear thinking is affected by his need to spread the seed, a woman in her prime is often driven by maternal desires that cloud her perceptions of the man she is with, her circumstances, and the logical thought required to plan out the financial details of the next 20 years of her life before allowing nature to knock on her door. It’s not the same as deciding whether or not to purchase that condo with 10% down, and then having to live with it when the plumbing needs to be replaced.
Not angry with you, B… just suggesting there’s more to it than saying it’s simple.
By Julia
June 15, 2006 01:56 PM | Link to this
Thanks also to Kimberly!;)
Let me just say that I DON’T regret having my child nor do I whine about having him. He is the greatest blessing I’ve ever received.
If I had known sharing some of the details of the child support case was going to cause these guys to attack me then I never would have shared the info.
If discussing issues equates to “whinning” then I guess everyone on this blog is guilty of that. LOL
And let me clarify something else (since it keeps coming up)-I work from the time I get up until I go to be at night (but not continuously). I do get breaks you see-to blog, go to the bathroom, eat lunch, play with my son,etc-just like a normal person. ;)
By what the heck
June 15, 2006 01:58 PM | Link to this
72John What????????? You have to be religious to not work? You’re doing something wrong if someone makes enough money that you don’t have to work? I am certainly not religious, and why would I work if I don’t have to or need to? Just to be like you guys who get paid for working but don’t? No thanks, I think I’ll take a dip in the pool my good husband bought and paid for because he, unlike you, is not a loser.
By Archie
June 15, 2006 02:04 PM | Link to this
“I’m sorry, but painting single parents as noble martyrs just doesn’t impress me. Choice. Choice. Choice. Women fought for it, women have it, so don’t complain when you make it and then regret it afterwards.”
Brian that’s a little harder than I would put it but I understand. It seems as if a lot of guys are just downright angry from last week. I have never seen this much criticism of women on this blog and some of it is unwarranted. I think Julia and Amelia have posted about two different situations and both are right. I just don’t feel like criticizing women too much at this point.
By Whiley
June 15, 2006 02:05 PM | Link to this
what the heck is A MAN posing as a woman ! ! BWAAAA HAAAAAA Zack is that you?
By Julia
June 15, 2006 02:07 PM | Link to this
WTH-72John is far from being a “loser” as you put it. He is one of the most intelligent men on this blog.
So, you admit you have to have a man to take care of you? Interesting…
By Billy
June 15, 2006 02:09 PM | Link to this
Monica, This is a public blog. You cannot tell me to lay off.
Actually, this being a public blog means she can tell you to lay off.
The drive to reproduce and nurture that is inherent in many (but not all) women is more powerful than you think. Just as a young man’s clear thinking is affected by his need to spread the seed, a woman in her prime is often driven by maternal desires that cloud her perceptions of the man she is with, her circumstances, and the logical thought required to plan out the financial details of the next 20 years of her life before allowing nature to knock on her door.
Kim, I agree with you to a point there. But if we’re constantly hearing about how men’s biological urge to spread his seed with as many different mates as possible is no excuse for cheating or for seducing every woman he can or for not protecting himself, then why is a woman’s biological urge to have a child an excuse for her not protecting herself or for her neglecting to get Plan B if the situation necessitates it.
If men claim biology as an excuse, an argument with which I disagree, then people like Whiley start foaming at the mouth about sexist pigs. If women do the same thing and men call them out on it, then people like Whiley start foaming at the mouth about sexist pigs.
By Jack
June 15, 2006 02:11 PM | Link to this
Pleased to meet you, hope you guess my name. What’s buggin you is nature of my game.
Hi Sweet Thing !
I’m off for some R&R with the Mrs. Yee Ha!
By Billy
June 15, 2006 02:11 PM | Link to this
I think Julia and Amelia have posted about two different situations and both are right.
I agree. I don’t know why people see things as both black-and-white and set-in-stone here.
By The72John
June 15, 2006 02:16 PM | Link to this
72John What????????? etc. etc. etc.
My, you’re awfully good at judging a lot of people you know absolutely nothing about, aren’t you?
Let me answer some of your questions for you, alright dear?
You have to be religious to not work
No, but most women like you are one step shy of belonging to a cult. You don’t have an identity of your own, so you cling to A) Jesus and B) your husband. Doesn’t make for a particularly interesting person, as you so admirably display.
You’re doing something wrong if someone makes enough money that you don’t have to work?
Not wrong, necessarily, but it certainly doesn’t speak to your worth as a person. Possibly you are too dull or lack the intelligence to pursue a career? Possibly you lack the intellectual drive required to appreciate anything other than Oprah, Dr. Phil, and bon bons.
why would I work if I don’t have to or need to?
Hmm…a lot of people who don’t necessarily have to work choose to work because it’s a lot more interesting than sitting around admiring your clothes closet all day long, or chatting vapidly with other half-witted trophy wives. Not to suggest that you ARE a trophy wife or anything, though I imagine your shrill, abrasive personality would have to be offset by a bodacious pair of hooters in order for any man with half a brain to look at you twice.
Just to be like you guys who get paid for working but don’t?
Oh my, more assumptions. Are you one of Celine Dion’s Psychic Friends? That would be so cool.
No thanks, I think I’ll take a dip in the pool my good husband bought and paid for because he, unlike you, is not a loser
The shallow end, no doubt. Well, it fits you.
By The72John
June 15, 2006 02:19 PM | Link to this
I’m off for some R&R with the Mrs. Yee Ha!
Is that what you crazy kids are calling it these days?
By Jack
June 15, 2006 02:23 PM | Link to this
Yes. That’s Rest & Relaxation Mucho Grande! See you kids next week! Gonna paint the town RED!
By what the heck
June 15, 2006 02:23 PM | Link to this
Julia, What do you mean I admit I have to have a man take care of me? I don’ have to, but why would I work when he doesn’t need my help in paying the bills? Just because he wants to take care of me, doesn’t mean I couldn’t if I needed to. Hell, your sperm doner ran off to another state to get away from your azz. My husband happens to love me, which it seems yours did not. He left your whiney azz, and who could blame him. BOO HOO HOO, look, she’s not working, must be because she can’t get a job. No, whiney, it because I don’t need or want a job. I have someone who loves me and takes care of me. What do you have? Someone who ran from you. Does every woman you know work? I know a lot of women that don’t have to work.
By GOB
June 15, 2006 02:23 PM | Link to this
John - I agree about the world cup announcers. On the whole, they have been terrible. It’s too bad we cant get the British feed over here.
I hear that upkeep and maintenance on a yacht can be a big headache, too. But it’s something you CHOOSE to buy. If you don’t want the hassle, don’t make that choice. It’s very simple, and you don’t even have to give up sex! Just be sensible in your mattress-frolicking and make sensible decisions if something goes wrong.
Brian - This isnt the typical single parent situation though. Most were married, or at least in a relationship, when they got pregant, so they were in no way choosing to be a single parent. You could sell your yatch if you got divorced and couldnt afford it. Single parents dont have that option with their children (at least in most countries).
By Whiley
June 15, 2006 02:24 PM | Link to this
Barbara you’re another guy posing as a female, it’s so easy to spot you pigs. I happen to live a VERY good life with VERY good friends & when I choose it VERY good lovers. I DON’T rely on a husband to validate nor take care of me. I’m sure as HAIL better off without children. Look how people treat each other, you’d have to be a fool to risk having children with anybody it APPEARS.
Ultimately women have to protect their own bodies & must make better choices who they make a baby with. Not easy to do, not everybody has cheater, abuser or lazy written all over their faces now do they?
How many are going to finally stand up against the religious nuts that would outlaw most contraceptives if they could? To outlaw the morning after pill & all abortion? To take away sex education? All those conservative people we put into office are slowly taking reproductive planning away from all of us. Where is the logic in that?
Those who regularly read this post know that my paintgun is a metaphor. My wish for a way to tag sex offenders, murderers, rapists & over all jerks that are a threat to other people. Wouldn’t life be better if they were easier to spot?
By what the heck
June 15, 2006 02:25 PM | Link to this
Billy, regarding you 1:13 post, how did this get to be your blog?
By Monica
June 15, 2006 02:26 PM | Link to this
Monica, This is a public blog. You cannot tell me to lay off. It is none of your business if I think Julia is a whiner. You need to mind your own business. I will post as I see fit and you can drag you big ol’ crooked warted witches nose out of my business.
Wow! Y’all might find this hard to believe, but I have taught high school for 12 years and this is the first time I’ve been accused of having a witch’s nose. ~insert Witch Hazel’s cackle here~
By Brian Curtis
June 15, 2006 02:26 PM | Link to this
John and Kimberly, you’re right. That was oversimplified the way I stated it.
I DO dispute the apparent assumption, though, that once an unwanted pregnancy occurs, there are no options but to climb up on a cross and become a Single Mother. Or that the CHOICE to have a child somehow incurs an obligation on the rest of us who weren’t involved in that choice (whether it be the sperm contributor, or society at large).
Choice matters. You may not always be thinking straight when you have sex, but there’s no excuse for not thinking afterwards about whether to bring a new life into the world.
By Brian Curtis
June 15, 2006 02:30 PM | Link to this
Billy: The lesson is here is that no matter what ANYONE says about ANYTHING, Whiley will foam at the mouth about “sexist pigs.”
(Oblivious to the fact that she’s one herself. Paintgun! POW!)
By Julia
June 15, 2006 02:31 PM | Link to this
Gonna paint the town RED.
Jack-Did you swipe Whiley’s paintgun??? LOL
By WWJD
June 15, 2006 02:33 PM | Link to this
Whiley based on the last paragraph of your 2:24 post, you would be a veritable walking multi colored rainbow of paintball splatter every day of your life.
By The72John
June 15, 2006 02:33 PM | Link to this
Does every woman you know work? I know a lot of women that don’t have to work.
Really? Are they all as dull, tiresome, spoiled, self-involved, tedious, unpleasant and generally disagreeable as you?
By Julia
June 15, 2006 02:40 PM | Link to this
BC-I was thinking afterwards and I decided to have my child. What’s your point? That because I didn’t abort that the biological father does not have ANY responsibility?
I don’t regret having my child for a moment. I have been asked details of the support issue several times and I decided to give some of the info on that situation. i didn’t mean it to sound like I was whinning about having a child. Gosh, I was just giving some info to some folks.
Being a mom is the greatest experience of my life and I wouldn’t trade it for anything.
By Billy
June 15, 2006 02:41 PM | Link to this
Billy, regarding you 1:13 post, how did this get to be your blog?
Well, there is a group of regulars here. We have a proprietary feeling for this blog. You are either new to it, coming in here being an arse, or you are a semi-regular yourself. One who is to chickenshit to post under his or her ususal name, mind you. Despite the impression Whiley gives, we are generally fairly civil to each other here. You, on the other hand, come in and berate Julia for no good reason.
Regarding your lifestyle — you are either a liar or the prostituting party in a sex-for-security arrangement. What is your agreement? Sex nightly, weekly BJs, and anal once a month? Facials on his birthday and Christmas?
You have yet to bring anything worthwhile to this blog.
By kimberly
June 15, 2006 02:41 PM | Link to this
Billy, I’m not saying that a woman’s biological urge is an excuse to not protect herself. I’m saying it’s a powerful force that often clouds her perceptions and ability to evaluate her situation with regard to long-term feasibility. ALL sexually-active people should certainly protect themselves!
Likewise, gentlemen, I do not think that your urges make you pigs. The fact is that a certain percentage of men will NOT remain sexually monogamous, regardless of how much they love their wives. (Excepting rape and pedophilia) I understand that sometimes a drive must be answered before it will leave you alone to go on with the other facets of your life. Many wives accept this about their husbands even though it hurts. Others simply cannot keep up with his needs. God made us the way we are, and some people are just horny all the time! Of course, some men ARE just a—holes, but that’s not what I’m talking about.
By just thinkin
June 15, 2006 02:42 PM | Link to this
What are you guys getting upset because someone doesn’t work? Not working is not a bad thing or a sin. Just because you have to work, don’t be hatin’ the folks that don’t. They’ve got it made! (PS I do work, but I wish I didn’t have to—and so do some of you guys I’m sure). You are just trying to be cute, but you are coming across as just plain dumb.
By Whiley
June 15, 2006 02:43 PM | Link to this
“I DO dispute the apparent assumption, though, that once an unwanted pregnancy occurs, there are no options but to climb up on a cross and become a Single Mother.”
There are PLENTY of people that are trying to take that choice away. There are PLENTY of people trying to make sure the ONLY choice is single motherhood, or adoption.
If men took responsibility for their own contraception, those types of single mother’s would be few & far between.
Think about it, everybody wins. No unwanted pregnancy & single Mom, no trapped father.
By Whiley
June 15, 2006 02:45 PM | Link to this
“Whiley based on the last paragraph of your 2:24 post, you would be a veritable walking multi colored rainbow of paintball splatter every day of your life. “
BWAAAA HAAAAAA ohhh i’m so scared of the sexist pig. BWAAAAAAA HAAAAA
By Julia
June 15, 2006 02:50 PM | Link to this
~~~~STANDING OVATION FOR 72JOHN~~~~
By what the heck
June 15, 2006 02:54 PM | Link to this
Billy, it doesn’t matter how “regular” you are on this blog. It is still not yours. Anyone can blog and I will continue to do so until I don’t want to anymore. What can you do other than ignore me? You cannot control other people being on here. I think you are having a hard time understanding that. The blog is for opinions, and in my opinion, Julia is a whiner.
By The72John
June 15, 2006 03:01 PM | Link to this
BWAAAA HAAAAAA ohhh i’m so scared of the sexist pig. BWAAAAAAA HAAAAA
Whiley…the point here (and we thank you for continuing to illustrate it beautifuly) is that you, in your constant, unwavering condemnation of all men who fail to act as your meek servants, you yourself demonstrate that you are a raving sexist pig yourself, though you are too blinded by irrational hatred and fear of the male gender to see it.
Notice how many reasonable people - forget the fly-by-night trolls - are telling you that you yourself are as viciously hostile to all men as you accuse men of being to women. Try to let that fact penetrate the rum-soaked haze of misandry that pervades in your mind.
By The72John
June 15, 2006 03:08 PM | Link to this
What are you guys getting upset because someone doesn’t work? Not working is not a bad thing or a sin. Just because you have to work, don’t be hatin’ the folks that don’t. They’ve got it made! (PS I do work, but I wish I didn’t have to—and so do some of you guys I’m sure). You are just trying to be cute, but you are coming across as just plain dumb
Yes, because adults who say “don’t be hatin’” sound so very, very intelligent.
I’m glad that your sole ambition is not to have to work any more, and I’m sure that after a few more…erm…decades at whichever fast food establishment you have chosen to seek your fortune, you’ll be able to retire and live out the remainder of your days in dull obscurity.
Some of us, on the other hand, seek more out of life than simply wallowing in dull, empty luxury.
By Julia
June 15, 2006 03:09 PM | Link to this
WTH-I hope you know what your opinion means to me. That’s right-diddly squat!
By Archie
June 15, 2006 03:09 PM | Link to this
Kimberly there is a lot of truth in your 2:41 post. Even your comment about some of us being a_holes is cute. I have always said on this blog that as men we do somethings wrong in relation to our women but then some women have problems accepting any criticism. I think some feelings were hurt last week because some of the regular guys are kind of hard on women moreso than they have been in the past. The conversation degenerated because some folk ran out of relevant things to say based on the topic.
By Billy
June 15, 2006 03:13 PM | Link to this
I understand Kim. But what I’m saying is that a man’s urge is also a powerful force that often clouds his perceptions and ability to evaluate the situation with regard to feasibility in the long- or even short-term. But once the man comes down from his peak, the blood returns to his brain and he can begin thinking straight. Unfortunately, there is nothing he can do at that point except try to persuade the woman to get Plan B or, later, an abortion. She has total control and makes every decision. If her perception is still cloudy, should she have that sort of power over him? At some point, she has to think about the future, and I think many women likely think about the child support payments when deciding whether or not they want to have the baby.
Julia, I’m in no way taking that evil woman’s side over yours, but I do somewhat agree with BC here. If he was dead-set against having a child, then it was your choice to do it. It’s almost like if you roommate ordered every single channel when you were happy with basic cable and then said that the bill should be split down the middle. Yes, you still split the bill, but you were happy with the cable service as it was before the big change. That was his decision, and the relative payments perhaps ought to reflect that.
I realize that we’re talking about children here, not cable, but in some ways the same principle applies.
By Billy
June 15, 2006 03:16 PM | Link to this
WTH, I didn’t tell you you couldn’t be on here. I just told you to shut up. You don’t have to, of course, but everyone here would prefer it if you were to do so.
By Whiley
June 15, 2006 03:19 PM | Link to this
Excuse me Mr. Pig. Standing up to obvious & ridiculous abusive sexism is a sign of strength. Guys like you are so hostile to anybody particularly a woman bringing to attention your sexist self.
I realize sexist men won’t change, but if enough of them are corrected publicly & without apology, eventually the nonsexist men will be the majority & life will be better for everybody.
Proof of what happens when sexist men are allowed to breed their sick thought process is the Middle East. When sexist men are in charge of Government, schools, religion & the family & are allowed to go unchecked look what happens. Look at the most dangerous places to be right now in the world & you will find extreme sexism & women without any power at all.
SO, I don’t care what the big bad sexist pig men say to me. Does it make you feel like a big bad man? That’s nice honey.
“splat”
By Billy
June 15, 2006 03:25 PM | Link to this
Whiley, much like bombing an entire village to kill only one or two terrorists only fuels the hatred of our country, your rabid rantings do nothing to help men’s perceptions of women. I’ve never hit my (fiercely independent) wife, but were she like you I’d have probably decked her the moment she made it down to the altar.
By Justin
June 15, 2006 03:26 PM | Link to this
If you are a mother with children, was married and then divorced, you are a divorced mother.
If you never married the father of your children, you are a single mother.
By The72John
June 15, 2006 03:28 PM | Link to this
Excuse me Mr. Pig. Standing up to obvious & ridiculous abusive sexism is a sign of strength. Guys like you are so hostile to anybody particularly a woman bringing to attention your sexist self.
Whiley, I see you’ve retreated back into insanity again. I doubt ANYONE would call ANY of the men who contribute regularly on this board sexist, but because we don’t agree with your extremist ravings, we are all pigs.
Whiley…go screw yourself dear. ‘Cause no one else will.
By Julia
June 15, 2006 03:31 PM | Link to this
That was his decision, and the relative payments perhaps ought to reflect that.
Billy-so you’re saying that if a man says he wants a child he should pay more and if he says he does not want a child he should pay less? Am I understanding you right?
By kimberly
June 15, 2006 03:31 PM | Link to this
Billy, I think we’re on the verge of a breakthrough here on the blog today. (How exciting!)
Yes, biological urges cloud the thinking of both men AND women. Each is clouded in a slightly different way (except for the really horny women - ‘nother topic, haha!). Neither the man or the woman is completely without control, as each has control over his or her own body in a different way. Neither has “complete control” over the other! The likelihood is not high that both the man AND the woman, having consumated their respective lusts, will want EXACTLY the same thing in the next act of this love play. Am I right?
Is it a quandry? Is it a quagmire? Well, it’s certainly not a simple thing that can be “solved” like so many have tried to express, with a quip! Am I right?
Sooooooo…. what’s the answer? Anyone? C’mon now, we’re SO CLOSE! (breathless anticipation)
By Justin
June 15, 2006 03:33 PM | Link to this
just thinkin, It is okay not to work if one is independent wealthy through “their” hard work and not pilfering from someone else.
By wiley fan
June 15, 2006 03:35 PM | Link to this
So,John 72 no one else will screw Wiley is what you think? I think you are afraid some of your men will screw someone else, and then you couldn’t assume the position and pack your fudge up right nice. If Julia thinks you are intelligent, well that’s here hang up. Getting it in the arse is not intelligent (IMO).
By Archie
June 15, 2006 03:37 PM | Link to this
“Unfortunately, there is nothing he can do at that point except try to persuade the woman to get Plan B or, later, an abortion. She has total control and makes every decision. If her perception is still cloudy, should she have that sort of power over him? At some point, she has to think about the future, and I think many women likely think about the child support payments when deciding whether or not they want to have the baby.”
Billy I don’t agree with what you’re saying here, totally. I don’t think many women likely think about the child support payments when deciding whether or not they want to have the baby. Remember the Amelia person earlier this week,she decided to have the baby and she was doing well financially. I know of other women like Amelia that don’t want a dime from a man. Heck, I suspect that Diane Glass would be one of those type of women. The women are just like men in the sense that each individual has their own way of thinking.
By just thinkin
June 15, 2006 03:38 PM | Link to this
Billy, So if you marry a rich man, don’t want to work, he doesn’t want you to work, and everybody is happy, that is wrong? How so??
By The72John
June 15, 2006 03:38 PM | Link to this
If you are a mother with children, was married and then divorced, you are a divorced mother
If you never married the father of your children, you are a single mother.
Tell me, Justin, do you know what the word semantics means? I’m glad that’s your definition, but don’t make the mistake of assuming that because you define things that way, the rest of the world does.
Whiley - perhaps I wasn’t clear enough for you.
Whiley - YOU are a sexist pig.
Let me repeat.
Whiley - YOU ARE A SEXIST PIG. You generalize and discriminate and demean men with every post. You, like most fanatics, are EXACTLY what you claim to despise.
Why don’t you shoot yourself with the paintgun and make the world a better place.
By kimberly
June 15, 2006 03:46 PM | Link to this
C’mon now. Stop hatin’ for a minute, please? Let’s break through…. What’s the answer, my friends?
By E. Lewis
June 15, 2006 03:53 PM | Link to this
As long as a man fathers a child, he and the mother are financially responsible. Whether or not he wanted the child to be born in the first place is irrelevant.
It really is simple enough to say use birth control, have yourself fixed or become celebate. STD issues aside, you can’t rely on someone’s word the they are “protected” or “infertile”.
Once the kid is born there is no going back. The fathers can’t wesel out of support his child. Perhaps, if he feels that he was truly lied to by the mother, he could sue her for fraud and I haven’t heard of too many baby-daddies doing this, but as long as that minor child is alive, so are the child support requirements.
By Billy
June 15, 2006 03:56 PM | Link to this
Billy-so you’re saying that if a man says he wants a child he should pay more and if he says he does not want a child he should pay less? Am I understanding you right?
Julia — Sort of. Read on for more…
Kim — It is a quandry. There’s no simple answer. The point that I’m trying to make is that the man has literally no say in the matter, and that that should be taken into consideration. Should he pay if he doesn’t want the baby and she does? In most cases, probably so, unless it can be proved that she lied about birth control or her intentions in some way. But his payments shouldn’t be prohibitive to him starting a family at a later date. He shouldn’t have to wait 18 years before having another child.
Julia, I really feel for you in your situation. On the one hand, the decision to have the child was 100% yours. On the other, abortion is quite a jump up from Plan B, and I’m thinking the latter was probably not readily available at the time. Also, for him to not involve you in court was wrong. I understand if he went there for a job, but still, he should have tried to get you there or something.
By Whiley
June 15, 2006 03:57 PM | Link to this
“Whiley…go screw yourself dear. ‘Cause no one else will. “
BWAAAA HAAAA HAAAAAAA
Yes Mr. Big Man, that would cure all my ills, a good screw from a BIG SMART MAN LIKE YOU ! Yes baby, big sexist pigs are a turn on. lol !
Billy, I doubt very seriously your wife is very independent. My guess she wants to be but doesn’t have the guts to stand up for herself. You’d be surprised what she really thinks.
All I’m doing on this post is pointing out backward sexist views. If everybody really stood up & said something each & every time, it would be exhausting for a while, but eventually things would level out.
We’ve been able to erase a lot of “normal” racist talk, so there is no reason we can’t weed out sexism.
By Billy
June 15, 2006 03:58 PM | Link to this
Billy, So if you marry a rich man, don’t want to work, he doesn’t want you to work, and everybody is happy, that is wrong? How so??
No, it’s not wrong. But to not be working and then come on here and tell a single mother who is working to get off her arse and get a job?
that’s wrong.
By Justin
June 15, 2006 03:58 PM | Link to this
The72John,
I reiterate…
If you are a mother with children, was married and then divorced, you are a divorced mother.
If you never married the father of your children, you are a single mother or may I add an unwed mother.
The72John, are you having your cycle?
By Justin
June 15, 2006 04:04 PM | Link to this
Also The72John,
When completing most forms, they have a selection which states
Single Divorced Married Widow/Widower
Some even go so far as to add “Separated” as a selection. So if you are a divorced mother, would you select “Single”.
By The72John
June 15, 2006 04:05 PM | Link to this
So if you marry a rich man, don’t want to work, he doesn’t want you to work, and everybody is happy, that is wrong? How so?
Well, in my book - and granted this is my opinion - a person who would willingly not do anything but lie around the house, go to the gym, go shopping, watch TV and sit by the pool is a particularly dull waste of a human being.
Now, if you do something meaningful with your life, that’s different.
By Billy
June 15, 2006 04:05 PM | Link to this
Justin — Why is that the thing you are choosing to focus on?
By Brian Curtis
June 15, 2006 04:08 PM | Link to this
Once the baby is BORN there’s no going back: I agree.
But one person—and one person only—had the power to take things to that point.
Having sex is a choice TWO people make; but deciding to continue a pregnancy is the choice of ONE person, and ONE person only. See the difference?
If you’re so committed to the idea that the choice of what to do about a pregnancy belongs 100% to the pregnant woman… why on earth should anybody else be asked to pay for her decision?
By Archie
June 15, 2006 04:10 PM | Link to this
Billy,72John y’all are too hard on Whiley. She was doing very well until someone baited her. Kimberly you,myself, and others have already given the answers but noone wants to accept it because of discussions from last week. It’s hard to get people to listen to you if you call them a rapist just based on words and it’s hard to get people to listen to you when you generalize about their gender,etc.
By Billy
June 15, 2006 04:10 PM | Link to this
Justin, he probably is on his cycle. I know I am. It’s like clockwork. After a week and a half of being called sexist and being compared to rapists and abusers, I can’t keep my cool and start snapping at people. Not just people. I’ve snapped at Whiley, too.
By just thinkin
June 15, 2006 04:11 PM | Link to this
Billy, that was (2) different people. The person that told Julia to get a job is not the same as the person who said they didn’t work. And by the way, the poster didn’t say she didn’t work until she was asked.
By The72John
June 15, 2006 04:12 PM | Link to this
The72John, are you having your cycle?
I don’t have a cycle Justin. I just don’t have patience for your woman-hating any more than I do for Whiley’s man-hating.
And since you want to toss stereotypes around, why don’t you go eat some watermelon and fried chicken and stop cluttering up the blog.
Yes Mr. Big Man, that would cure all my ills, a good screw from a BIG SMART MAN LIKE YOU ! Yes baby, big sexist pigs are a turn on. lol !
Whiley, you are an idiot. And a psychopath.
By Whiley
June 15, 2006 04:12 PM | Link to this
“I’ve never hit my (fiercely independent) wife, but were she like you I’d have probably decked her the moment she made it down to the altar.”
Meaning: I’m not a sexist pig, but if my wife criticized me I would have beat her trap shut even on our wedding day.
By Billy
June 15, 2006 04:12 PM | Link to this
Billy, I doubt very seriously your wife is very independent. My guess she wants to be but doesn’t have the guts to stand up for herself. You’d be surprised what she really thinks.
I doubt very much this is the first time you’ve been dead wrong.
By kimberly
June 15, 2006 04:13 PM | Link to this
the man has literally no say in the matter, and that that should be taken into consideration
Oh oh… dang, we were getting so close. Let’s back up for a minute and big picture it. The man’s options are not gone completely. He can move the other side of the country or leave it (I know a man who DID!). He can choose to never speak to her again and let a lawyer duke it out for him in court. He can aknowledge it isn’t his ideal situation, but still explore options and decide to what extent he wants to be involved. He can decide to just be friends and offer some money. He can decide he wants th child every other weekend. His whole life is NOT suddenly beyond his control! Afterall, he did decide to sleep with [or marry] her in the first place, didn’t he?
But where does the REAL answer begin, folks?
By Whiley
June 15, 2006 04:15 PM | Link to this
“If you’re so committed to the idea that the choice of what to do about a pregnancy belongs 100% to the pregnant woman… why on earth should anybody else be asked to pay for her decision?”
OK which should pay? father or tax payers?
By The72John
June 15, 2006 04:16 PM | Link to this
Some even go so far as to add “Separated” as a selection. So if you are a divorced mother, would you select “Single”.
And here I thought we were talking about common usage of words. I had no idea you were talking about filing out the MARITAL STATUS field of a form.
Go pick some cotton and leave the thinking to the people genetically more capable of it.
By you got to be kidding
June 15, 2006 04:16 PM | Link to this
72 John, In your opinion a person that doesn’t work is all these terrible things, but when someone has a opinion about being gay, you have a fit. Lets see, not work, or get it up my arse, gee, I can’t decide.
By Whiley
June 15, 2006 04:21 PM | Link to this
:) Archie
By The72John
June 15, 2006 04:23 PM | Link to this
Billy,72John y’all are too hard on Whiley. She was doing very well until someone baited her. Kimberly you,myself, and others have already given the answers but noone wants to accept it because of discussions from last week. It’s hard to get people to listen to you if you call them a rapist just based on words and it’s hard to get people to listen to you when you generalize about their gender,etc.
Last week has nothing to do with it. Whiley always degenerates into a frothing-at-the-mouth man-bashing on any topic. I’m sick of it.
By Billy
June 15, 2006 04:25 PM | Link to this
Who is it that thinks she is always right?
Hates every man, good or bad, wants to shoot him on sight?
Incinerate and dance around him to her heart’s content?
Lambast him just for speaking, even if he is a gent?
Eschews common courtesy, puts spite at the forefront?
Yes, it’s Whiley, our blog’s nasty, frigid ubercunt!
By Billy
June 15, 2006 04:26 PM | Link to this
Hopefully the forsmatting will turn out better on this one…
By kimberly
June 15, 2006 04:30 PM | Link to this
Okay, I’ll spoon feed it to you then. Since it takes two, this is for the Man AND the Woman:
How ‘bout FORGIVENESS? Forgive yourself. Forgive the other person. Good start.
How ‘bout COMPASSION? Your world is suddenly upside down. So is the other person’s. Know that you’re BOTH scared. Accept that his or her feelings are just as valid as your feelings. (That’s AMAZING when both people do it.)
How ‘bout COMPROMISE? Accept that your ideal scenario is not gonna happen. What could you live with? What can’t you live with? How does the other person answer those questions?
How ‘bout CONSIDER THE CHILD? Both parties could step back for a minute and think about what lies ahead for the child. Consider that growing up means sometimes we put someone else’s needs ahead of our own selfish desires. Remember your parents did plenty of that for you! Be honest (ladies) and know that a home in which the parents hate each other is NOT really the best for the child, now is it?
How ‘bout PATIENCE? Know that complex issues take time to work through. Be willing to listen, reflect, think, and contribute to the situation in a positive way. By doing so, you encourage the other person to do so. If this cycle can be sustained, the outcome will be much better for everyone!
By The72John
June 15, 2006 04:32 PM | Link to this
72 John, In your opinion a person that doesn’t work is all these terrible things, but when someone has a opinion about being gay, you have a fit. Lets see, not work, or get it up my arse, gee, I can’t decide
Um…calling someone boring and tedious is hardly the same thing as condeming them to hell and suggesting they don’t deserve the same legal rights and protections as everyone else.
I’m entitled not to personally like anyone, just like anyone else is. I’m not entitled to beat them or reduce them to second-class citizens legally.
You are really bad at metaphors, aren’t you.
By Billy
June 15, 2006 04:36 PM | Link to this
Or I could spell formatting right…
By Billy
June 15, 2006 04:41 PM | Link to this
Lets see, not work, or get it up my arse, gee, I can’t decide
Don’t tell Whiley, but my wife’s independence would probably have her choose the latter.
Plus, one can be gay and not partake in the buttsex. Just like one can be gay and choose to partake in the buttsex.
By Chilao
June 15, 2006 04:42 PM | Link to this
But where does the REAL answer begin, folks?
well, Nancy had this Just Say No thing going on back in the 1980/s. LOL Might work here as well.
By Whiley
June 15, 2006 04:43 PM | Link to this
“Yes, it’s Whiley, our blog’s nasty, frigid ubercunt!”
lol Yes Billy you big he-man of a thing you. What a big strong man you are using a woman’s private part in a sentence to prove what a Big STRONG in charge man you are.
Now beat your chest & yell in your best he-man-Tarzan voice.
lol!
By Chilao
June 15, 2006 04:47 PM | Link to this
Just like one can be gay and choose to partake in the buttsex.
or not be gay and still… oh, never mind. LMAO
By Billy
June 15, 2006 04:52 PM | Link to this
Whiley, my comments have nothing to do with machismo and everything to do with you being evil.
By Julia
June 15, 2006 04:52 PM | Link to this
I’ll be on vacation until Monday. Sorry I’m going to miss joke day. But then again, with the new bloggers maybe today WAS joke day!LOL
Here’s a couple of contributions for Friday…a little early.
I also want to say thanks to Monica, Mara, Kimberly, 72John and Whiley. We don’t always see eye to eye on everything but I always respect your opinions and I appreciate your going to bat for me. Thanks guys!
The minister was preaching on the evils of drink. He first said he would like to gather up all the wine and dump it in the river. Then he moved on to beer and said he would like to get all the beer and dump it in the river, and then all other forms of alcohol to be dumped into the river. The choir director’s face began to show a worried look. The first hymn they were scheduled to sing was “Shall we gather at the river?”
Two ninety year old men, Moe and Sam, have been friends all their lives. It seems that Sam is dying, so Moe comes to visit him. “Sam,” says Moe, “You know how we have both loved baseball all our lives. Sam, you have do me one favor. When you go, somehow you’ve got to tell me if there’s baseball in heaven.”
Sam looks up at Moe from his deathbed and says, “Moe, you’ve been my friend many years. This favor I’ll do for you.” And with that, Sam passes on.
It is midnight a couple nights later. Moe is sound asleep when a distant voice calls out to him, “Moe…. Moe….” “Who is it?” says Moe sitting up suddenly. “Who is it?” “Moe, it’s Sam.” “Come on. You’re not Sam. Sam died.” “I’m telling you,” insists the voice. “It’s me, Sam!”
“Sam? Is that you? Where are you?” “I’m in heaven,” says Sam, “and I’ve got to tell you, I’ve got some good news and some bad news.” “Tell me the good news first,” says Moe. “The good news,” says Sam “is that there is baseball in heaven.” “Really?” says Moe, “That’s wonderful! What’s the bad news?” “You’re pitching Tuesday!”
Some people say, “I go to church, so I am a Christian.” But that’s like saying if you go to McDonald’s you are a Quarter Pounder.
By Billy
June 15, 2006 04:53 PM | Link to this
or not be gay and still… oh, never mind. LMAO
Hmm…Actually, that’s what I was going for. Stupid “not”!
By kimberly
June 15, 2006 04:54 PM | Link to this
Y’all… I was really hoping for a breakthrough on this topic — not one that affects everybody, but important nonetheless. As a lifelong Democrat, I keep spinning my wheels with the hope that people will give a s—t about what’s right, and try to see beyond themselves, and look toward a world in which we try to understand and appreciate our differences and make it work, and…. as you know, I always find myself disappointed… disillusioned… depressed… falling into hopelessness again…. reaching for a Scotch… and a smoke…. and the porn channel… pull the shades…. pull the covers up high… Beam me up Scotty… no one on this planet gives a flying f-ck.
…until the next time I see a glimmer of hope for my fellow humans! Every time you disappoint me is like the VERY FIRST TIME! Woo-HOOOO! Ciao.
By Whiley
June 15, 2006 05:00 PM | Link to this
“Last week has nothing to do with it. Whiley always degenerates into a frothing-at-the-mouth man-bashing on any topic. I’m sick of it.”
Well then you need to post on a MAN TO MAN blog. This is WOMAN TO WOMAN. If you don’t want to read what women REALLY think go blog on a Christian site.
Give me a break a lot of you tear women up & blame them for everything along with calling them whores & everything else. And YOU’RE upset because I’m calling some of you on your sexism ??!!! And this is a WOMAN TO WOMAN blog ! A Few of you GUYS are posting as WOMEN because the whorish sperm stealing self impregnanting God Diggers DON’T EXIST. You had to INVENT women who think men shouldn’t have to pay for the children they create. lol ! My favorite are the gold digging women that get pregnant on purpose to get their $300 a month from rich guys like YOU??? LOL ! Oh the laughter never ends.
By Justin
June 15, 2006 05:02 PM | Link to this
The72John, Please you little pr—k. I could care less about you. Be careful that I don’t find you. Remember what happened to the singer in New York.
By Kyle
June 15, 2006 05:11 PM | Link to this
kimberly: what a let down. i was reading through the blog and kept coming across you saying, “come on you guys, we are so close, what’s the answer?” i was expecting some brilliant insight into the issue. and then you run out of patience and finally give us the answer - which is for everyone to act like thoughtful, responsible, and logical adults. well, your right, that would clear up this problem - along with world peace and hunger. unfortunately the prolem is that most people don’t fit that mold. i’m not saying i have the answer, but i certianly don’t think its realistic to say, “ok, let’s all play nice!”
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By Billy
June 16, 2006 08:17 AM | Link to this
Justin — The expression is, “I couldn’t care less…”
By The72John
June 16, 2006 08:25 AM | Link to this
Didn’t take but a couple of stereotypes to make you show your true colors, did it Justin?
Just for the record, I don’t actually believe any of the things I said are accurate - you don’t have to believe stereotypes to use them. But maybe you ought to think before you start spouting them off next time.
And just for the record, I do know what happened to that singer. He was attacked by a whole gang of men. Because that’s what people like that do - they are such cowards they have to gang up just to take out one harmless man. Does that describe you Justin? Are you a fearful, cowardly man who can only beat up and attack things different from him?
By GOB
June 16, 2006 08:29 AM | Link to this
The72John, Please you little pr—k. I could care less about you. Be careful that I don’t find you. Remember what happened to the singer in New York.
That is a pretty bold threat to make about someone you claim to not care about…
By Whiley
June 16, 2006 08:29 AM | Link to this
Kyle, playing nice has never worked with these “types” of people. One has to kick, scream, paintgun & take over to change anything.
Nice to see the sexist porn peddlers are back.
OK, I’m going to try to be nice: Attn. Diane & Shaunti, Since this is a Woman to Woman blog, can you please delete sexist pig porn posts the moment they appear? It would be nice to have a few places on the Internet that are void of this sort of thing. Woman don’t need to be reminded here that porn is a billion $ business because apparently men can’t go 24 hours without purchasing this sort of thing so they can “release” themselves. lol losers.
By Archie
June 16, 2006 08:49 AM | Link to this
“Woman don’t need to be reminded here that porn is a billion $ business because apparently men can’t go 24 hours without purchasing this sort of thing so they can “release” themselves. lol losers.”
Why can’t some women go 24 hours without making a dollar spreading their legs? SOME WOMEN. Whiley that is an unnecessary crack to start off the morning. I defended you all of yesterday then I read your bashing first thing in the morning. Whether they want to admit it or not the men on this blog had their feelings hurt last week and any topic involving men and women will bring back those feelings. Sometimes women have no clue as to how words can affect men. The topic question was a good one but the blog went downhill as people ran out of constructive things to say and of course last week’s comments are obviously still on the minds of the men.
By Archie
June 16, 2006 08:49 AM | Link to this
“Woman don’t need to be reminded here that porn is a billion $ business because apparently men can’t go 24 hours without purchasing this sort of thing so they can “release” themselves. lol losers.”
Why can’t some women go 24 hours without making a dollar spreading their legs? SOME WOMEN. Whiley that is an unnecessary crack to start off the morning. I defended you all of yesterday then I read your bashing first thing in the morning. Whether they want to admit it or not the men on this blog had their feelings hurt last week and any topic involving men and women will bring back those feelings. Sometimes women have no clue as to how words can affect men. The topic question was a good one but the blog went downhill as people ran out of constructive things to say and of course last week’s comments are obviously still on the minds of the men.
By The72John
June 16, 2006 08:57 AM | Link to this
Well then you need to post on a MAN TO MAN blog. This is WOMAN TO WOMAN. If you don’t want to read what women REALLY think go blog on a Christian site.
It’s called woman-to-woman because it’s written by two women, not because men are supposed to shut up and take whatever you dish out.
Give me a break a lot of you tear women up & blame them for everything along with calling them whores & everything else. And YOU’RE upset because I’m calling some of you on your sexism ??!!!
Not one person posting this week blames women or calls them whores.
A Few of you GUYS are posting as WOMEN because the whorish sperm stealing self impregnanting God Diggers DON’T EXIST. You had to INVENT women who think men shouldn’t have to pay for the children they create. lol
Yes, Whiley…they must be men and not women because they don’t smile and nod when you start ranting about the victimhood of women and the perfididy of men.
My favorite are the gold digging women that get pregnant on purpose to get their $300 a month from rich guys like YOU??? LOL ! Oh the laughter never ends
Whiley, take a deep breath and read back over the blog…the parts where I say that the idea that women get pregnant to make money is ludicrous.
Take TWO seconds to realize that maybe, just MAYBE, you have once again descended into a fit of frothing-at-the-mouth hysteria (and no, Whiley, I don’t reserve the use of the word hysteria for women, I reserve it for both genders when appropriate) and are blaming all men for the actions of people who aren’t even here.
Somehow I doubt you are capable of being that rational, however.
By Whiley
June 16, 2006 09:06 AM | Link to this
GESUS Archie WHY when women show anger & disgust about men doing stupid & nasty things do ALL men think we are referring to ALL MEN???
I’m SORRY we can’t pick out of a crowd the ones who are users, rapists, child molesters, porn addicts, wife beaters, thieves. It’s not our fault we have to be careful around ALL men because of this. Your feelings shouldn’t be HURT, they should be ANGRY that so many bad guys are making it harder for all you GOOD guys.
This morning I was making note how “normal” seeing porn adds plastered everywhere are. It’s revolting & sexist. Everybody knows where to find porn if they “need” it. Why are we forced to have it in our faces everywhere we turn? Because a male dominated sexist society allows it. Sorry, facts are facts & I don’t like it either.
Sexism hurts my feelings daily when I see it. I’m sorry if speaking out against it hurts yours.
You ARE one of the good guys on this board.
By Janet
June 16, 2006 09:16 AM | Link to this
After reading this blog top to bottom it is pretty certain that Whiley would fit right in with the crowd from the NOW. Her obvious loathing of all things male is so apparent. Women like Whiley are the exact reason that many men and women are in a perpetual state of combat with each other. Women like Whiley do more harm to the cause of the everyday woman than any man ever could hope to.
By The72John
June 16, 2006 09:27 AM | Link to this
After reading this blog top to bottom it is pretty certain that Whiley would fit right in with the crowd from the NOW. Her obvious loathing of all things male is so apparent. Women like Whiley are the exact reason that many men and women are in a perpetual state of combat with each other. Women like Whiley do more harm to the cause of the everyday woman than any man ever could hope to
Look out, Janet…Whiley is now going to accuse you of being a man masquerading as a woman. Anyone who doesn’t share her beliefs that the vast majority of the male population is either a rapist or a rapist just waiting to happen, or her delusion that roving gangs of men spend all their waking hours chasing women around the streets of Atlanta waggling their package and making lewd comments, or her obession with the idea that women are all frail, helpless victims of brutal, dominating men is obviously a man pretending to be a woman, because one couldn’t possibly be a woman and disagree with the laws of WhileyWorld.
By GOB
June 16, 2006 09:28 AM | Link to this
GESUS Archie WHY when women show anger & disgust about men doing stupid & nasty things do ALL men think we are referring to ALL MEN???
Maybe because of posts like this when you explictly refer to ALL men thinking something…That’s just a guess though…
By GOB
June 16, 2006 09:29 AM | Link to this
Janet - Seeing as you dont agree with what Whiley says, you must be a man pretending to be a woman…how dare you.
By Jerry
June 16, 2006 09:37 AM | Link to this
Both feminists and conservative women rightly demand full and equal rights for women in the productive world, the world of work. Yet they exhaust themselves to deny men full and equal rights in the reproductive world, the world of children.
You both sound exactly like the sexist men of 40 years ago who rationalized denying women the right of abortion. You both want to keep men in their “place” as providers who are required to pay for women’s reproductive decisions.
Lacking rights equal to women’s in the reproductive world potentially hurts all men. But it especially hurts the poor men that are invisible to you. It hurts black men more than racism. When they collectively become aware of the economic destructivenss of this systemic discrimination, look out. A storm is a-coming.
By Archie
June 16, 2006 09:42 AM | Link to this
Whiley you don’t say anything about women that are willing participants in porn. I just saw on the Judge Joe Brown yesterday where two women had a contract involving porn pictures and a porn performance. One woman said she was proud of what she did and the other was very business savvy in talking about how money her xxx website made. Whiley you have to come into the 21st century and for the record I’ve been to strip clubs in my lifetime and no I don’t own any porn videos,porn magazines, but I am no better than some of the other guys on this blog. I disagree some of the guys but I am sure they don’t care that much about that but when you call someone a sexist,rapist and place no blame on women you are going to get angry comments such as they were much of this week. 72John already said he was sick of the male-bashing well, a few weeks ago I was tired of the male-bashing because of some personal stuff and my posts reflected that. Whiley you post about your sexual exploits, well don’t you think guys have some exploits or some sexual desires beyond what a woman allows or do you think men need permission to have sexual feelings? My point weeks ago was that I didn’t understand why feminists didn’t bash Marion Brooks. I mean how can one woman hurt another woman and just walk away but the women on this blog gave me an answer whether I liked it or not. Anybody that feels like Whiley really needs counselling.
By Whiley
June 16, 2006 09:47 AM | Link to this
“Maybe because of posts like this when you explictly refer to ALL men thinking something…That’s just a guess though…”
Well when you’re all wearing signs identifying yourselves, that’s when I’ll stop the “generalizing”.
“Not one person posting this week blames women or calls them whores.”
????!?!?!?!?!?!??!?!?!?!?!?!?!??!!
NOW isn’t about hating men. It’s about hating sexism, violence & lack of equality. If standing up & getting angry about it is considered hating, that’s fine with me. lol
By Chilao
June 16, 2006 09:47 AM | Link to this
so much for joke day. LMAO That was a pretty nasty psuedo threat yesterday. shame shame.
Ok, pressed for time, these will all be in one post and are compliments of the latest PlayboyPartyJokes. pardon any formatting issues.
Q: Did you hear about the gay midget? A: He came out of the cupboard.
A man walked into a pharmacy and asked for some condoms woth insecticide. “I think you mean ‘spermicide’” the clerk said. The man replied “No, I need condoms with insecticide, my wife has a bug up her a-s-s and I am going in after it”.
Q: Why did the loose cowgirl get fired? A: She could not keep her calves together.
Q: Why did cavemen drag women by the hair on their head? A: If you drag them by their feet, they fill up with mud. this is texting a former visual cartoon.
A man and his wife were sitting in the living one evening when he said, “Just so you will know, I never want fo live in a vegetative state, dependent on some machine, and fluids from a bottle. If that ever happens, just pull the plug.
The wife promptly got up, poured out all his beer and unplugged the TV.
and we know who this one would be dedicated to:
Our Unabashed Dictionary defines Social Security Sex as getting a little every month, but not enough to live on.
By Kyle
June 16, 2006 09:48 AM | Link to this
Whiley, i must say that I agree with some of your critics on this blog. i understand you feel the need to call out “sexist pigs” whenever you come across them - and you should. but don’t you think crying wolf at ths sight of any man takes a lot of validity away from any and all accusations you may make, including the legitimate ones?
By Billy
June 16, 2006 09:57 AM | Link to this
Kyle — She doesn’t care, because you’re a man and inherently sexist, if not a rapist-to-be.
By Billy
June 16, 2006 10:01 AM | Link to this
Q: How can you tell if your wife is dead?
A: The sex is the same but the dishes pile up.
By GOB
June 16, 2006 10:02 AM | Link to this
Well when you’re all wearing signs identifying yourselves, that’s when I’ll stop the “generalizing”.
Way to backtrack…My comment was in reponse to your complaint that men thought you were generalizing. Well done.
By Billy
June 16, 2006 10:02 AM | Link to this
For the record — I’m not really sexist; I’m just posting these to get to Whiley since she didn’t read my last post from last week.
By kimberly
June 16, 2006 10:03 AM | Link to this
Kyle, so you think I’m an idiot for saying that we might actually solve problems if we behave like mature, compassionate adults? Sorry to have disappointed you. How ‘bout this: GO F%&^ YOURSELF KYLE YOU HATEFUL PR!CK!
Feel better now? I don’t, but I’m happy to make the sacrifice so you can have a special f—-ing day.
By Billy
June 16, 2006 10:03 AM | Link to this
On a transatlantic flight, a plane passes through a severe storm. The turbulence is awful, and things go from bad to worse when one wing is struck by lightning. One woman in particular loses it. Screaming, she stands up in front of the plane. “I’m too young to die!” she wails. “Well, if I’m going to die, I want my last minutes on Earth to be memorable! I’ve had plenty of sex in my life, but no one has ever made me really feel like a woman! Well I’ve had it! Is there ANYONE on this plane who can make me feel like a WOMAN??” For a moment, there is silence. Everyone has forgotten their own peril, and they all stare, riveted, at the desperate woman in the front of the plane. Then, a man stands up in the rear of the plane. “I can make you feel like a woman,” he says. He’s gorgeous. Tall, built, with long, flowing black hair and jet black eyes, he starts to walk slowly up the aisle, unbuttoning his shirt one button at a time. No one moves. The woman is breathing heavily in anticipation as the stranger approaches. He removes his shirt. Muscles ripple across his chest as he reaches her, and extends the arm holding his shirt to the trembling woman, and whispers: “Iron this.”
By Anon
June 16, 2006 10:07 AM | Link to this
I am a program director for an agency that provides services to immigrant victims of domestic abuse and human traficking. In a majority of the cases the women have legitimate reasons to seek protection. However there are numerous cases where it becomes apparent that the woman is doing nothing more than trying to set up a man for a divorce or a split from a domestic partnership where he is considered the villian. Of course this process is free for her to include legal services. By villianizing the man she will of course recieve not only court awarded child support, but all other aid that she is entitled to under the law. In most cases it amounts to more than enough to live in a reasonably comfortable manner. In some cases we have found that the woman entered the relationship just to have a child that would be a citizen as well as the vehicle to the awarding of all the benefits of an “abused” woman. In many cases they are awarded refugee status. Fortunately we catch a large percentage of these false cases. So yes Whiley. Golddiggers do exist and they come from all economic categories. What is not much to some is a windfall for others. And tragically in some cases an innocent man has his life turned upside down because of it.
By The72John
June 16, 2006 10:08 AM | Link to this
Well when you’re all wearing signs identifying yourselves, that’s when I’ll stop the “generalizing”.
Yes, and this is why you are a crazy person and not a rational human being.
????!?!?!?!?!?!??!?!?!?!?!?!?!??!!
Find one reference where Billy, or I, or Archie, or Jack, or GOB or any of the other men you have been screaming at like a crazed fool for the past two weeks have EVER blamed women for anything just because they are women, or called a woman a whore. I dare you.
NOW isn’t about hating men. It’s about hating sexism, violence & lack of equality. If standing up & getting angry about it is considered hating, that’s fine with me. lol
Actually, it’s considered crazy. Because you don’t direct your anger at the right sources, you aren’t taken seriously. You’re like a black person screaming at the white guy marching next to him in Selma because he happens to be white. lol.
By Billy
June 16, 2006 10:11 AM | Link to this
How many men does it take to open a can of beer? None. It should be opened by the time she brings it.
Why do women have smaller feet than men? It’s one of those “evolutionary things” that allows them to stand closer the sink.
How do you know when a woman is about to say something smart? When she starts her sentence with “A man once told me…”
How do you fix a woman’s watch? You don’t. There is a clock on the oven.
Why do men break wind more than women? Because women can’t shut up long enough to build up the required pressure.
If your dog is barking at the back door and your wife is yelling at the front door, who do you let in first? The dog of course. He’ll shut up once you let him in.
What do you call a woman who has lost 95% of her intelligence? Divorced.
Why do men die before their wives? They want to.
By Gavin McBrewer
June 16, 2006 10:20 AM | Link to this
I can’t find a political blog to write to so why not write here? The AJC is a disgrace to ATL. Just look at how they jump to Campbell’s defense, completely one-sided. Their headline is about Campbell’s “letter” from his mother, as if to say, “SEE ATLANTA!, He IS innocent!!!” When he was sentenced, all the paper could do was give his rebuttal and use the word “abomination” when referring to the verdict. They barely quoted the federal judge’s comments at all. The AJC headline was like saying, “Ex-Mayor wrongly convicted”. And look back at Al-Zarqawi being killed. The AJC headlines with “Al-Zarqawi Murdered” and then here’s the kicker; The very next line links to “family reacts”. Then they proceed to describe Al-Zarqawi’s brother and his poor 2 kids. Nevermind the fact that he sawed people’s heads off. Let’s trash the US military for killing a sweet man and father of 2. The AJC is trash and you are a traitor for reading it.
By Whiley
June 16, 2006 10:27 AM | Link to this
” but don’t you think crying wolf at ths sight of any man takes a lot of validity away from any and all accusations you may make, including the legitimate ones? “
Like I explained before women have to be on guard when it comes to men. That’s the way it’s been that’s the way it will probably always be. I shouldn’t have to explain why. The difference is that I’m verbalizing it. I’m verbalizing what women mostly just keep to themselves. You should be more hurt that that’s how we have to live our lives, why in the WORLD would it hurt your feelings for any another reason??
“Whiley you don’t say anything about women that are willing participants in porn.”
I’m not thrilled about them either. The difference is, women in/addicted to porn (I’m sure there are around 20 or so addicts) aren’t a threat to me as far as sexual violence. There is a direct link between porn addicts who turn to sex crimes or treat women as 2nd class citizens. People like that are our bosses, teachers, coaches, repairmen, etc.
Do you ever watch the Dateline sting operations? Catching SO many trying to have sex with young boys & girls? They are the most normal looking people with normal jobs. How many of them have families?
They weren’t wearing their signs.
You tell ME how we’re supposed the know the difference between the good guys & the bad? HOW
By Renee
June 16, 2006 10:28 AM | Link to this
Good Morning all!
I see NOTHING on here has changed since last week, seems to have only gotten worse.
Archie, I saw that Judge Joe Brown yesterday. She’s one woman among many who enjoy their profession…but what do I know…I’m an undercover man lol.
I can’t take part in these continually insane antics today.
By The72John
June 16, 2006 10:32 AM | Link to this
I can’t find a political blog to write to so why not write here?
Because we have a strict “No Idiot Blowhards Allowed” policy. Please take your ravings and rantings back to one of the blogs reserved for people without a brain.
By The72John
June 16, 2006 10:40 AM | Link to this
You tell ME how we’re supposed the know the difference between the good guys & the bad? HOW
Gee, nutcase, why don’t you ask all the women in the world who manage to go about their daily lives without being terrified that the man near them is just preparing to jump on them.
By Billy
June 16, 2006 10:40 AM | Link to this
Whiley, there’s a direct link between people who breathe and people who commit sex crimes. Porn doesn’t cause sex crimes. Look at the Middle East — Good luck finding any good porn in most Muslim countries, yet rapes and “honor killings” abound. Porn doesn’t cause them.
By GOB
June 16, 2006 10:41 AM | Link to this
The AJC is trash and you are a traitor for reading it.
I have been saying for years that the entire AJC staff and all of it readership should be brought up on treason charges. That’ll teach us…uh,I mean them…
By GOB
June 16, 2006 10:42 AM | Link to this
John - on a totally unrelated note, have you seen what Argentina is doing to Serbia this morning? Yikes.
By Billy
June 16, 2006 10:50 AM | Link to this
Why do men die before their wives? They want to.
Yeah, right, John. As if there are any women who don’t spend every waking moment in fear of a man whislting at them…
By The72John
June 16, 2006 10:51 AM | Link to this
GOB, that is disgusting…I didn’t realize it was possible to b!tch-slap someone in soccer.
By The72John
June 16, 2006 10:58 AM | Link to this
That’ll teach us…uh,I mean them…
Hmmm.
By Netbanker
June 16, 2006 11:02 AM | Link to this
Hey kids! Over my head these days and would rather be chatting with y’all than winging around the country, but I need that paycheck.
On topic….I tend to agree with those who say that men MUST take responsibility for where they are releasing their little swimmers. If you’re not 100% sure of their fate then make sure by using a release and catch (in a condom) program. Otherwise you should be responsible for child support. Where I do have some mixed feeling is when the man isn’t notified of the pregnacy or aware of it until years later and then is suddenly held accountable for back child support for a child that they didn’t even know about. In those cases (rare, I agree), I think child support should only be from the point of filing forward and contingent upon a DNA test.
On a personal note…hope all are well. Off to the next meeting that I’m already late for….which is forcing me to use very poor grammar.
Later!
By Justin
June 16, 2006 11:08 AM | Link to this
The72John, You are so boring and stupid. Don’t you have something better to do such as plannng your rubber thong outfits for the parade during your weekend later this month?
I understand why “you” are gay. I guess the Black man you saw boinking your salacious mother turned you on so, you had to have some of that…just go ahead and get a change so you won’t be so darn cranky!
By OBSERVER
June 16, 2006 11:12 AM | Link to this
72John, Since the challenge was made to find where anyone called a woman a whore on this blog, look at Billy’s 2:41 yesterday. If that’s not saying someones’s a whore, I don’t know what is. And he is saying this not because she did anything to indicate that. He is p.o’d because she doesnt’t work.
By The72John
June 16, 2006 11:17 AM | Link to this
The72John, You are so boring and stupid. Don’t you have something better to do such as plannng your rubber thong outfits for the parade during your weekend later this month?
Guess Justin hasn’t learned his lessons about stereotyping yet. Looks like the little monkey can dish it out, but can’t take it without blowing his stack.
Just for the record, ghetto boy, I don’t wear rubber or thongs, nor do I have any desire to be a woman, act like a woman, look like a woman, listen to music that women listen to, or do anything remotely like a woman.
Keep spouting off, Justin. We see what you’re really made of.
By Justin
June 16, 2006 11:18 AM | Link to this
The72John, “you” show your true colors…
It would be man-to-man combat…oops, I can’t hurt you. Men aren’t supposed to strike a weaker being. It would be as if I hit a woman.
By Billy
June 16, 2006 11:19 AM | Link to this
Salacious? Someone knows about thesaurus.com!
By Billy
June 16, 2006 11:20 AM | Link to this
Observer, that was the only time, and it was only directed at the one woman.
By Billy
June 16, 2006 11:21 AM | Link to this
And I probably wouldn’t have done that were I not a little irked about spending the past two weeks being called a sexist pig and a rapist.
By The72John
June 16, 2006 11:26 AM | Link to this
It would be man-to-man combat…oops, I can’t hurt you. Men aren’t supposed to strike a weaker being. It would be as if I hit a woman
Keep stereotyping, Sambo. But go fetch and shine my shoes for me first.
By GOB
June 16, 2006 11:28 AM | Link to this
John - I dont think Serbia should be allowed to even play their next game. Hopefully the Dutch - Ivory Coast game will be a little better. I dont want to waste my lunch hour watching a blow out.
By OBSERVER
June 16, 2006 11:29 AM | Link to this
Billy, As far as I can tell, the person you directed that to did not call you anything. Don’t you think that was a little misdirected? Why didn’t you call Wiley that? Scared? You big strong man.
By Archie
June 16, 2006 11:31 AM | Link to this
“There is a direct link between porn addicts who turn to sex crimes or treat women as 2nd class citizens”
Whiley you should be harder on women that willingly participate in porn then.
Renee, thanks, but don’t back out of the discussion we need some rational women on here. I noticed that Judge Brown did not have a negative thing to say to the women and that one lady basically said business is business. Whiley and others like her will not even acknowledge the fact that that’s what feminism is about, being on a level playing field socially,politicall, and economically and yes, sometimes equality means that a woman will engage in something considered sinful,sexist,racist,etc because she can. Check this definition:Belief in the social, political, and economic equality of the sexes. The movement organized around this belief. That is the definition of feminism and if you don’t understand that it means that women will sell their bodies for profit or cheat you just like a man then you’re playin’ yourself. That means fooling yourself for the slang-challenged. Also guys are angry because and this my joke for the day,because women are always casual with their whereas we have to wear neckties everyday except Friday.
By Billy
June 16, 2006 11:31 AM | Link to this
And he is saying this not because she did anything to indicate that. He is p.o’d because she doesnt’t work.
No, I was saying that because she was lording her superficial, materialistic lifestyle over the rest of us.
Your husband makes enought to provide you with this, that, and the other while you are free to just lounge by the pool and not work? You are fortunate. You rip someone for her lifestyle while gloating about how your husband makes enough to provide you with this, that, and the other while you are free to just lounge by the pool and not work? Then you’re a shallow whore.
By Billy
June 16, 2006 11:38 AM | Link to this
Billy, As far as I can tell, the person you directed that to did not call you anything. Don’t you think that was a little misdirected? Why didn’t you call Wiley that? Scared? You big strong man.
What, I suppose you’ve never snapped at someone after a week of BS from a different person? And this person that came in was chastising Julia by saying this: BTW, my husband works and takes care of me, and doesn’t care if I am on the computer all day if that’s what I want to do. That’s the difference in just jumping in and spreading it, and making a wise choice.
Sorry, I don’t really see that statement as defensible.
By The72John
June 16, 2006 11:38 AM | Link to this
Billy, As far as I can tell, the person you directed that to did not call you anything. Don’t you think that was a little misdirected? Why didn’t you call Wiley that? Scared? You big strong man.
Hmm…because Whiley never bragged about how she didn’t have to do anything but lounge around her pool all day because she didn’t want to work and her husband paid for everything for her?
Billy drew a connection between being a “kept” woman, whether married or not, and being a prostitute, i.e. someone who trades sexual favors for renumeration. So…your question is rather illogical.
And it’s interesting, but Whiley’s the only person on this blog who’s drawn the rather innane connection between criticizing someone who happens to be female and feelings of masculinity. Interesting coincidence…WHILEY.
By Archie
June 16, 2006 11:39 AM | Link to this
72John why don’t you insult Justin another way. Some of those things affect me and Renee.
The things Justin says are things a straight man hears on the basketball court sometimes.
As for Justin,hey,John is gay so what, move on. Insult him another way.
Both of you guys are grown I think so I can’t tell you to stop but don’t p** off everybody.
By Pitbull
June 16, 2006 11:42 AM | Link to this
My overall impression from reading the posts on this blog is that there are a lot of people out there in the world living lives that are out of control.
By The72John
June 16, 2006 11:44 AM | Link to this
Hey Archie, just to let you know - any racist comments I direct towards Justin are not to be taken seriously. I am simply responding in kind to his ignorant gay stereotyping.
I’m pretty sure I can get him to fly off the handle completely and start spewing threats and all kinds of abuse. I’m operating on the theory that his whole sob-story about his wife is BS and that she actually left him because he is an ignorant, brutal animal of a man who can’t be trusted around children.
We’ll see…
By Whiley
June 16, 2006 11:46 AM | Link to this
“I don’t wear rubber or thongs, nor do I have any desire to be a woman, act like a woman, look like a woman, listen to music that women listen to, or do anything remotely like a woman.”
SEXIST PIGS CANNOT EVER EVER BE NEAR OR DO ANYTHING REMOTELY “FEMININE”. Appreciating anything other than female body parts is not even possible. Anything that doesn’t included SPORTS, DIRT, PORN, GUNS,SPITTING,FAST CARS, VIOLENCE, HUNTING, CUSSING & WAR cannot be TOLERATED ! ! !
Billy the saddest thing about you is that you don’t think you’re sexist.
REALLY people. You don’t think men should have to use birth control, shouldn’t have to pay for the children they help to create, should have the right to verbally harrass women out in public, complain gold diggers are around every corner, & think women don’t have any reason to be untrusting of men.
hummmm
By The72John
June 16, 2006 11:48 AM | Link to this
Archie, I posted my first comment before yours. Justin started throwing the stereotypes around and I don’t take kindly to that. Sorry if you are bothered by the things I say - I don’t actually mean them, but I get the feeling that Justin actually does believe the things he says. I think he deserves to know what it feels like, don’t you?
By Kyle
June 16, 2006 11:51 AM | Link to this
yikes! didn’t mean to press your buttons kimberly. calm down, its only a blog, and only my opinion - although it would be great if your fairytale world existed, I still think your answer is nieve and unrealistic. why does that make me “hateful” and not just realistic?
-guess i’ll just chalk up the “go f@%K yourself you hateful p#%@k” part to early morning grumpiness - btw, when you put your attacks in all caps and bold like that, it hurts my feelings even more, ha.
By The72John
June 16, 2006 11:59 AM | Link to this
SEXIST PIGS CANNOT EVER EVER BE NEAR OR DO ANYTHING REMOTELY “FEMININE”. Appreciating anything other than female body parts is not even possible. Anything that doesn’t included SPORTS, DIRT, PORN, GUNS,SPITTING,FAST CARS, VIOLENCE, HUNTING, CUSSING & WAR cannot be TOLERATED
Um…you are on crack. Or drunk. Or possibly both.
Billy the saddest thing about you is that you don’t think you’re sexist.
Actually, the most pathetic thing on this blog is that you can post something like the first quote in this post and still think that YOU aren’t sexist.
By Archie
June 16, 2006 12:10 PM | Link to this
72John I am ok with you,man. I am ok with Justin,too. John I had to grow myself so I can’t judge Justin and I am still learning things about people and it’s a challenge to say the right things but I have gotten to the point where I don’t care if anybody knows I support gay marriage but I know I can improve…
By Billy
June 16, 2006 12:32 PM | Link to this
The things Justin says are things a straight man hears on the basketball court sometimes.
Doesn’t that say something, though, Archie? I mean, one of the biggest insults you can make in middle school is to call someone gay. The fact that straight men use gay stereotypes to insult each other is somewhat offensive in itself. Not to mention that doing it is…well…just…gay! ;-)
By The72John
June 16, 2006 12:41 PM | Link to this
Doesn’t that say something, though, Archie? I mean, one of the biggest insults you can make in middle school is to call someone gay. The fact that straight men use gay stereotypes to insult each other is somewhat offensive in itself. Not to mention that doing it is…well…just…gay! ;-)
Yup…and since in the real world I would never think about using racial insults (except to black friends who know I’m kidding) what does it say about the people who get upset by racial comments but have no objection to making “f*” cracks?
By kimberly
June 16, 2006 12:49 PM | Link to this
Kyle,
I’m sorry. I thought that’s what you WANTED when you put me down for being so naive as to advocate mature behavior. You’re right: our reality does not embrace those principles. Hence, we have problems and issues we can NEVER solve. Without offering details (to those who’d use them to trash me) I HAVE employed those very tactics to a very similar situation, and nearly 15 years later, it’s working quite well, thanks. No judge, no court, no dragging each other through the mud. Just give & take, compromise, and willingness to look beyond ourselves to what is right. The result is something much more wonderful than we could have imagined so freaked out all those years ago.
To the more public aspects of the topic: Either we bring the government even further into our bedrooms and private lives, (who wants that?) or we LEARN TO WORK IT OUT. That is skill that must be learned from and encouraged by others, IMO. Is your solution that we simply all be like Justin and b-tch moan whine curse, b-tch moan whine, point fingers, curse, repeat?
By Justin
June 16, 2006 01:01 PM | Link to this
I am not anti-gay, but The72John is an a**hole. He means it when he throws around racial stereotypes. He is probably a nazi skinhead who grew up in Philadelphia, Mississippi!
By Justin
June 16, 2006 01:12 PM | Link to this
Archie, you are right. I definitely don’t want to alienate gay people because I don’t have a problem with who people love. However, I have a problem with The72John and it has nothing to do with him being gay.
However, I do think he is truly a closet racist. He easily spouts out Black stereotypes. He is just the kind of punk who would go to Buckhead or a Midtown function, spout racially divisive comments, get a beat down and then cry because “It is because I am gay”.
By The72John
June 16, 2006 01:18 PM | Link to this
I am not anti-gay, but The72John is an ahole. He means it when he throws around racial stereotypes. He is probably a nazi skinhead who grew up in Philadelphia, Mississippi
Let’s review, shall we?
You threw the first stereotype stone with your “cycle” comment, and then followed it up with a violent threat, followed by even more ugly stereotypes.
I, on the other hand, made several disclaimers about the statements I made so that no one would think I was being serious. Which of us is more credible as the real bigot?
That would be you.
By Justin
June 16, 2006 01:20 PM | Link to this
The72John, if you were a true friend, you would never make racial stereotype comments/jokes to your friends. If you do, you aren’t a friend. One day, you may find they don’t find your comments hilarious anymore and wonder why they drop kicked your a**!
By The72John
June 16, 2006 01:22 PM | Link to this
However, I do think he is truly a closet racist. He easily spouts out Black stereotypes. He is just the kind of punk who would go to Buckhead or a Midtown function, spout racially divisive comments, get a beat down and then cry because “It is because I am gay”.
No more easily than you spouted out gay stereotypes, you moron.
Once again, s**, YOU STARTED IT. YOU are the f*** A*****, D*******.
By The72John
June 16, 2006 01:25 PM | Link to this
However, I have a problem with The72John and it has nothing to do with him being gay.
Yes, apparently you are so emotionally insecure that you can’t handle when someone challenges something you’ve declared to be absolutely true.
By Justin
June 16, 2006 01:27 PM | Link to this
The72John, oops, I mean The72Toilethole, whoever your “Black” friends are need a visit by the “Drop Squad”. Don’t try to understand…
They need a reality check. Maybe I need to meet them and I can sell them downtown Atlanta.
By The72John
June 16, 2006 01:30 PM | Link to this
The72John, if you were a true friend, you would never make racial stereotype comments/jokes to your friends. If you do, you aren’t a friend. One day, you may find they don’t find your comments hilarious anymore and wonder why they drop kicked your a!
Gee, I guess you know everything, including how my friends think. Never guess you stopped to consider that maybe they make outrageous stereotype jokes back at me. Idiot.
By The72John
June 16, 2006 01:34 PM | Link to this
Gee Justin, I see you are as much a pigeonholer as Whiley is. Guess who sounds like a racist now, ignorant moron.
By Justin
June 16, 2006 01:37 PM | Link to this
The72Toilethole, Go ahead and say it, I know you want to…
Go ahead and say n* or are you going to call me a cn, you funky, stinky a punk!
I made one comment and you came out with a barrage of racially divise comments! You see, it came much too easy to you…
By Justin
June 16, 2006 01:47 PM | Link to this
You are an idiot and your “Black” friends are idiots for even wanting to be around you. I highly question your “Black” friends as I question you being non-racist.
By Billy
June 16, 2006 01:48 PM | Link to this
Maybe I need to meet them and I can sell them downtown Atlanta.
What does that even mean?
By The72John
June 16, 2006 01:51 PM | Link to this
Sorry Justin, I don’t use the n-word or the c-word. My intent, which has come to fruition, was to show you exactly what stereotyping can do. You are virtually frothing at the mouth because you can dish it out but you can’t take it.
I assumed that at some point you would realize this, but apparently you can’t. Sounds like you’ve got as much of a victim mentality as Whiley does.
As I said before, you don’t have to BELIEVE stereotypes to know what they are. You don’t have to believe that racist comments are true to use them effectively in goading someone into a rage.
But hey, you continue to believe what you want.
By The72John
June 16, 2006 01:56 PM | Link to this
You are an idiot and your “Black” friends are idiots for even wanting to be around you. I highly question your “Black” friends as I question you being non-racist.
Hmmm…so apparently you get to decide who is actually “black”, much like Whiley gets to decide who is actually a woman. I see how your mind works now.
Always remember in that pea-sized brain of yours, doofus, that you are the one responsible for this entire exchange.
By Justin
June 16, 2006 02:11 PM | Link to this
The72John, you think you know everything. Whiley is a heroine compared to you. You whiny boy, you bore me.
It’s joke time…Jokes for the John…
By The72John
June 16, 2006 02:21 PM | Link to this
The72John, you think you know everything. Whiley is a heroine compared to you. You whiny boy, you bore me.
Wow, is that the best you can do?
Whiny…boring…hmm…that pretty much describes your incessant ranting and raving about “Oh, my wife took my KID and I’m SUCH a good dad! BOO HOO. Oh, why won’t the courts let me have my KID! All women use their POWER to take the CHILDREN and I have to pay CHILD SUPPORT” Blah, blah blah, blah blah blah blah.
Suck it up and deal, loser. Your wife is more educated than you and makes more money that you. Why would a judge put a kid with such an obvious LOSER as you?
By Archie
June 16, 2006 02:26 PM | Link to this
“you don’t have to BELIEVE stereotypes to know what they are. You don’t have to believe that racist comments are true to use them effectively in goading someone into a rage.”
Those statements are true. About 20 years ago I called a woman a b*** to get her to leave me alone. I only said it for that reason. Have I called a woman that since then, yes, under my breath. But I don’t know if it matters anymore since women refer to themselves as b***. In fact the woman of reference called herself one. She said “I know I am a b***”. Men are just human beings and we are going to make mistakes,get angry,get sad,get happy,lie,cheat, tell the truth,go to church,do charity work, watch porn, watch sports, watch nothing but the news, watch everything but sports and porn. In other words men are human. I don’t know of any women that take the victim mentality as far as Whiley does but I do know of women that seem to have a very bad attitude towards men.
72John I don’t doubt that your friends say stereotyping things to you and you give it back to them. Because I am about a generation older I don’t like slurs being directed at me even when they come from people like me. If I really knew you I could probably handle some teasing and whatnot from you. Omigod 72John do we have to deal people who decide who’s black. You’re lucky in that regard. I thought notice I said thought Justin was picking at you comparing you to a woman versus picking at your preference but I could be wrong. I am admitting upfront that I could be wrong so please no one post out of context. Women also use those same type of insults…
By GOB
June 16, 2006 02:34 PM | Link to this
I’m pretty sure I can get him to fly off the handle completely and start spewing threats and all kinds of abuse.
You certainly called it.
By The72John
June 16, 2006 02:42 PM | Link to this
I thought notice I said thought Justin was picking at you comparing you to a woman versus picking at your preference but I could be wrong
Yeah…exactly…comparing gay men to women is pretty much at the top of the homophobic hit list. I admit that it p** me off, but then Justin’s inability to assume any responsibility for his own slur p** me off even further.
By Stephen Colbert
June 16, 2006 02:43 PM | Link to this
You are an idiot and your “Black” friends are idiots for even wanting to be around you. I highly question your “Black” friends as I question you being non-racist.
I reunited with my black friend Alan last night. It was very moving.
By The72John
June 16, 2006 02:46 PM | Link to this
You certainly called it.
I was bored. What can I say.
By Monica
June 16, 2006 02:46 PM | Link to this
Since we’re on the subject of male responsibility, Happy Father’s Day to all you dads out there in Blog-land! I’m grateful that I have a wonderful father (I’m 35 and still call him Daddy), and a husband who is a wonderful daddy to his boys. Enjoy your day fathers! :)
By Whiley
June 16, 2006 02:52 PM | Link to this
“The72John, you think you know everything. Whiley is a heroine compared to you.”
TA DA!
Hey seriously, when we actually truly speak our minds it can seem scary, offensive, rude, or sad to some people. What we all do affects everybody. Being passionate about a cause or problem doesn’t make anyone nuts. We are all human, nobody’s perfect & the way the world works certainly isn’t helping. A lot of the time being polite & saying please just doesn’t do anything.
I think we all agree (mostly), birth control is everybody’s responsibility. Instead of men & women fighting against each other, lets figure out how to improve birth control & availability. Get rid of all the religious nuts that want to take it all away.
Better birth control for all = no unwanted pregnancies.
What happened to joke day? Even looney me looks forward to fridays.
By Kyle
June 16, 2006 03:02 PM | Link to this
kimberly,
first of all, i never meant to insult you or insinuate that you were and idiot - sorry if it came off that way. i think its great that you and your partner were able to be respectable adults about the whole situation, and i’m sure the child is much better off for it. your situation is the best case scenario. my point was only that the majority of people that find themselves in this type of situation will not be able or willing to follow your example. i don’t claim to have the answer here, but the option of simply whinning about it doesn’t seem appealing either. i don’t like the idea of having more laws that protrude into our lives, but i do think there should be something in place to take effect when the majority of people are unable to handle themselves in a mature and responsible manner. i’m not supporting that the man be able to walk off scott free, because the ultimate concern in the situation is for the child - but i do think there should be some penalty/sanction imposed on either party if it can be proved that they caused a pregnancy in an untruthful manner.
-jackets are up 3-0 in the college world series, if anyone cares
By The72John
June 16, 2006 03:06 PM | Link to this
passionate about a cause or problem doesn’t make anyone nuts
You’re absolutely right. That isn’t what makes you nuts.
By GOB
June 16, 2006 03:08 PM | Link to this
jackets are up 3-0 in the college world series, if anyone cares
That’s too bad…Although I would like to see a UGA-Tech final series.
By The72John
June 16, 2006 03:18 PM | Link to this
That’s too bad…Although I would like to see a UGA-Tech final series.
If only to see the Dawgs devour Tech and spit out their chewed up carcasses.
By Archie
June 16, 2006 03:24 PM | Link to this
Whiley the guys couldn’t tell any jokes because they were p** off. I did what I could to calm them down but dealing with so much negativity takes away from humor sometimes. Guys wanted to vent at you Whiley from the moment this topic began and it was because of last week. Heck, Billy and others said point blank why they were angry and I was not angry primarily because I vented weeks ago. If you think all men behave with attitudes, conditions, or behaviors that promote stereotyping of social roles based on gender, then you will see anger.
By GOB
June 16, 2006 03:26 PM | Link to this
If only to see the Dawgs devour Tech and spit out their chewed up carcasses.
Exactly. We already took 2 of 3 this year, so it would be nice to let Tech get that close to the National Championship and then crush them. Although, I must say, getting to the College World Series is a nice accomplishment for the trade school.
By Kyle
June 16, 2006 03:37 PM | Link to this
GO DAWGS! just stay out of the loser’s bracket this time.
-honestly rice, how intimidating is an owl? c’mon
By GOB
June 16, 2006 03:45 PM | Link to this
How much does this suck? Tomorrow, I am in a class from 8:30-4:30 and then am going out with another couple at 6. I have to miss 3 world cup games, including the US-Italy, AND the UGA baseball game. I am not happy about this at all.
By The72John
June 16, 2006 03:47 PM | Link to this
-honestly rice, how intimidating is an owl? c’mon
Hey, owls are actually pretty nasty little critters.
Now, my personal favorite is still Wichita State. I can just imagine the gestures made at their home games…
By Kyle
June 16, 2006 04:06 PM | Link to this
GOB, i thought i had it bad b/c i was haiving to figure out how i could watch the dawgs and usa at once - please accept my deepest appologies, i wouldn’t wish that on my worst enemy - we’ll let ya know how it turns out
The72John, ahh yes wichita state - the shockers. not sure if any of you caught it, but when the shockers made their surprising run in march maddness this year their cheerleaders were constatnly holding up “the shocker” - i kid you not, one of the funniest things ever!
By GOB
June 16, 2006 04:14 PM | Link to this
Kyle - I am going to have the Tivo working overtime, and keeping the radio off the entire time i am in the car. Hopefully I can make it back without anyone telling me what happened. I doubt it is possible (my father-in-law invariably calls ruins any score I am trying to avoid), but I am going to give it the ol’ college try.
The72John, ahh yes wichita state - the shockers. not sure if any of you caught it, but when the shockers made their surprising run in march maddness this year their cheerleaders were constatnly holding up “the shocker” - i kid you not, one of the funniest things ever!
That is absolute high comedy. Was it the female cheerleaders doing it? Nice.
By The72John
June 16, 2006 04:15 PM | Link to this
GOB, if the US doesn’t play better tomorrow than they did Monday, then you aren’t missing anything.
By The72John
June 16, 2006 04:21 PM | Link to this
The72John, ahh yes wichita state - the shockers. not sure if any of you caught it, but when the shockers made their surprising run in march maddness this year their cheerleaders were constatnly holding up “the shocker” - i kid you not, one of the funniest things ever!
yeah, after a few beers, my friends and I were trying to figure out exactly what we thought their mascott should look like. The only problem is…I’m pretty sure the NCAA wouldn’t have approved.
By The72John
June 16, 2006 04:33 PM | Link to this
That is absolute high comedy. Was it the female cheerleaders doing it? Nice.
Nope - it was a group stunt. It took two of the male cheerleaders and one of the female ones to pull it off. The crowd ate it up.
By Chilao
June 16, 2006 04:36 PM | Link to this
and here I thought it was an electric cattle prod. LMAO
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shocker(handgesture)
By Chilao
June 16, 2006 04:38 PM | Link to this
there is a pic of the cheerleader at that wikipedia site
the moral decline of the US, the moral decline of the US, and in the MidWest Bible belt even.
By Chilao
June 16, 2006 04:43 PM | Link to this
some underscores got dropped on that url around hand gesture
oh well, that’s where google comes in handy.
By Kyle
June 16, 2006 04:43 PM | Link to this
yes - the girl cheerleaders were leading the way. cbs must not have been privy to what it actually meant b/c they didn’t shy away from the shock with the cameras
By Chilao
June 16, 2006 04:44 PM | Link to this
the link still works though, directly.