AJC.com > Opinion > Woman to Woman > Archives > 2006 > March > 24 > Entry
Should soda cans require obesity warning labels?
Diane Glass, a left-leaning columnist, writes the commentary this week and Shaunti Feldhahn, a right-leaning columnist, responds.
Diane Glass, a left-leaning columnist, writes the commentary this week and Shaunti Feldhahn, a right-leaning columnist, responds.
Commentary
Warning: Reading this column may make you smarter.
Consider Darwin’s natural law before passing man-made ones: Weeding out the weak makes us that much stronger. Although, regrettably, it would rob us of the random news story about the Billy Bobs of this world who hold onto the bottom of a car in search of a mysteroius rattle while their friend drives it down the road.
Sure, requiring warning labels on sugar water may influence someone to consume less. But if warning labels worked, we wouldn’t have smokers.
A recent petition to the FDA demands soft drink companies shoulder responsibility for the all-out obesity epidemic rampant across the U.S. If they don’t comply lawsuits will surely follow. But before we go off on a litigious wingding, consider the obvious: the fault, dear Brutus, is not in our stars, but in ourselves, that we are underlings. That is, unless we want to enforce labels on all products – from fruit consumption to hair dryer use. Do we really need a warning to not swallow a lemon whole?
This doesn’t mean soda companies shouldn’t comply with these silly demands. Not because they’d be doing some good but because we live in a litigious society, always ready to place blame on somebody else. Soft drink companies should do everything legally possible to protect themselves from idiots who can’t take responsibility for their poor decisions.
I don’t have to be a scientist to know a carbonated, sugar-rich beverage with no vitamin content is bad for my health. And I’m smart enough to know obesity isn’t caused by drinking a Coke or Pepsi. Sustaining a healthy weight means exercising and portion control; it means resisting the temptation of ‘super-sizing’ my happy meal; and, it means being skeptical about processed food products like soft drink’s close kin: the diet soda.
Diet sodas don’t cause obesity but a recent controversial study in lab rats suggests diet sodas containing aspartame are tied to cancer. So again: can we really put a label on common sense? Sugar water is bad for you, even when you use fake sugar. And eating a lemon whole will make you choke.
But before I go — and to avoid any lawsuits — here’s another warning: Shaunti may argue against me.
Rebuttal
Yes, one reason for the obesity epidemic is those who choose to ignore the unwelcome reality that Super-Sizing value meals will Super-Size waistlines. But there is another reason: lack of information. You must have good information to use “common sense” about it, and once I researched this issue I realized just how much information the average person is lacking.
Several recent peer-reviewed studies have claimed that increased consumption of sugary soft drinks isn’t just one reason for the obesity epidemic; it’s the main reason. And here’s where the average person lacks information: the problem is that U.S. soft drinks don’t use regular table sugar. They use high fructose corn syrup (HFCS), which the body processes totally differently. Forgive the technical jargon, but consider this clip from a 2004 American Journal of Clinical Nutrition article: “The digestion, absorption, and metabolism of fructose differ from those of glucose….unlike glucose, fructose does not stimulate insulin secretion or enhance leptin production.”
Translation: high fructose corn syrup is much worse than other sugars because it doesn’t spur our bodies to process its calories properly or to generate any sense that our appetite has been sated. As a result, high fructose corn syrup contributes far more to making us fat than “normal” sugar.
Because most people simply don’t know how unusually fattening HFCS soft drinks are, the Center for Science in the Public Interest (CSPI) is trying to get warning labels that explain this. They also want soda vending machines banned from schools, noting that most teens get 15 percent of their total calories from soft drinks! And that means that both obesity and other elements of still-developing bone and body health are at stake.
The CSPI says that education is reducing soda consumption slightly. But when I asked CSPI executive director Michael Jacobson, if common sense and market forces should just be allowed to work on their own, even this conservative had to agree with his common sense answer: “At a time of an obesity epidemic, we shouldn’t wait 25 years to see if a laissez-faire approach will work. Especially since the soft-drink industry spends about $600 million in advertising to ensure that [it doesn’t].”
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By candide
March 27, 2006 07:13 AM | Link to this
Thank you for smoking!
By Lyrazel
March 27, 2006 08:51 AM | Link to this
If Americans are so stupid to need warning labels on cans of soft-drinks then what are we doing with with stockpiles of nuclear weapons?
Obesity has become a medical issue…since there is so much money to be made by the medical industry….ah except in fashion, tv and movies and advertising where anorexia rules regardless if one is selling trucks or linguini with alfredo sauce the eating diner and Bronco driver is always thin. In America we show NO FAT PEOPLE EATING IN COMMERCIALS ABOUT FOOD, BEER, SODAS. No fat people are ever shown except as failures in news stories covertly submitted as Health Information Guidelines by the same folks who revised the FOOD PYRAMID (remember have 12 servings of Pasta and Bread?) and obesity epidemics. Look deeper into the agricultural business. Here is an industry which since 1950 has added corn sweetener to just about every prepared food bought and sold in America. Guess what! Corn sweetener is fattening! Guess what—obesity also sells diet plans! Dieting is a multi-billion dollar industry complete with its own government lobbyists, scientists and media dis-information specialists. The big government & ADM subsidized Low-fat diet—is not really good for you (how many years and billions to find out Big Food Industry discovered: LOW FAT MEANS HIGH SUGAR CONTENT… corn sweeteners…have no fat! GOSH GEE WHIZ! (Did you ever munch chocolate Low-Fat Cookies on your diet? Eat your cake and Diet? Hmmm) So—for what its worth—stop listening to the government and ADM. While in a supermarket checkout lane read how many products you just bought contain corn sweetener additives—from dog food to cereal, plain yogurt to juices, baked beans from Natural Organics Whole Bran Bread (dont be fooled) to Campbells—we are the corn sweetener society. Maybe we should have a warning: AMERICAN PROCESSED AND FOOD MARKETED CAUSES OBESITY !Its not just in soft drinks Shaunti—its in milk!
By Just Being Me
March 27, 2006 09:07 AM | Link to this
Okay, I can’t believe they actually expect us to discuss this nonsense…
That said, I don’t see how anyone can say much more than a few sentences on the subject. Mine are: anyone who believes that soft drinks cause obesity has a much bigger problem than managing weight. I just learned last week that the 10 oz. apple and grape juices in my refrigerator at work have 210 calories, whereas the 12 oz. Dr. Pepper has 150. Go figure. Either way, it doesn’t take a body with normal metabolism too long to burn those calories, and they’ll burn even faster if the person exercises during the day.
Eat smart. Exercise. You won’t have to worry about whether or not there was a warning label on that Snapple.
Bottom line, soft drinks don’t cause obesity, consumers do (and in some cases, hormonal imbalances and other medical conditions). So, my answer is, no. Soda cans should not require obesity warning labels. How ridiculous.
This is going to be a touchy subject. I suggest we tread lightly. This might get uglier than the homosexuality and abortion debates.
By Chilao
March 27, 2006 09:20 AM | Link to this
See they got the text matching the author; late Friday, with the Shaunti may argue against me from Shaunti made my wonder if she was shizoid. I was puzzled in a major way, some things did not add up.
Even more confused, so wonder if the editors supply the topic and who gets to argue what side is also assigned?
I thought conservatives were against those kinds of notices on products and liberals were for babysitting consumers. what gives, there?
But I think all this is hilarious. I told the potato-chip/cheetos/soft drink guzzling crowd about 10 plus years ago: “When they are done going after smokers/big tobacco, you can be sure they will be coming after the purveyors of fat“(exaclty how I put it). Iwas suggesting they best help support smokers, or there would be no smokers interested in supporting them when the time came. Of course what I always found more hilarious was some grossly overweight individual, chowing down on the cheetos, telling me they thought smoking was a disgusting habit. I always reply “Yeah, I look at overeating the same way”. LOL As previously mentioned, I smoke. And have recommended suing McDonalds for years, well as long as they would be so insistent about suing the tobacco companies.
Looking forward to the movie Thank You for Smoking.
what is the stat?: 425,000 or so die from smoking-related illnesses yearly, and over 300,000 die from obesity related issues. so a 75 percent ratio, ballpark, makes it a serious public health issue. and for the record, I drink perhaps 3 cans of soft drinks a month. Maybe 5 in the summer.
But warning labels on soft drink cans? Heck, NO. Wait, the universe is creating better idiots, maybe it is a good idea. LMAO
By Bruce
March 27, 2006 09:24 AM | Link to this
O.K. this is so lame I vote we create our own topic and not even bother with the one above.
By Bruce
March 27, 2006 09:25 AM | Link to this
O.K. this is so lame I vote we create our own topic and not even bother with the one above.
By Just Being Me
March 27, 2006 09:31 AM | Link to this
I second the motion, Bruce. As long as it’s not abortion or homosexuality.
I wouldn’t mind revisiting the subject of illegal immigrants, or the Fair Tax (both of those subjects are discussed briefly in the Opinions section…
By Jack
March 27, 2006 09:32 AM | Link to this
If we do this, where will it stop? About the only things that don’t make one obese are laxitives so we will need warnings on everything we consume. Imagine just one little label on something and everyone would comply and not use to excess and POOF, no more obese folks.
By Whiley
March 27, 2006 09:39 AM | Link to this
Who here watches those Nanny 911 shows? That’s some scary stuff. Typical parents raising crazy kids. Junk food galore.
By Julia
March 27, 2006 09:41 AM | Link to this
I think there should be ALOT more labels required and placed on dangerous foods and drinks. But I don’t see it happening.
Processed/chemical foods,hydrogenated oils,artificial sweeteners,corn syrup,etc are all bad for you and cause disease such as cancer as well as heart problems. Hydrogenated oila should definitely carry a warning label.
Not everyone is aware of some of the nutritional concerns regarding these products. Alot of folks just trust that “if it wasn’t safe it wouldn’t be on the market”. This way of thinking is dangerous.
We all know the FDA would never appove of someting that could cause us any harm right??? Wrong.
I would advise buying organic. No pesticides/chemicals/preservatives/artificial coloring/etc. And seeing a nutritional doctor or naturopathic doctor is the way to go to ensure you are getting the nutrients you need to avoid disease and stay healthy.
I wouldn’t go with an “obesity” label however-I would go with something worded a little different.
By prechrchet
March 27, 2006 09:55 AM | Link to this
I can’t believe I am writing this, because I agree with Diane on this one.
If you read the labels on the cans, you see what the drink contains. The consumer has been forewarned. Americans are relying waaaay too much on the government to do their thinking for them.
Wake up, people
By The72John
March 27, 2006 10:13 AM | Link to this
I like the idea of a topic change…this is the worst topic…ever.
Let’s do immigration so that some of the good Christians (some, not all!) can talk about how much they hate Hispanics. It’ll give ‘em a new target for a while.
By kimberly
March 27, 2006 10:13 AM | Link to this
I agree that this is a totally “DUH” topic. Diane is right in that people who drink sodas KNOW they are consuming something that can make them fat. Duh.
However (and it pains me to validate Shaunti, but I’ll be fair), I’d like to point out that most Americans are not aware that our food — not just soda — is LOADED with corn syrup, which is NOT sugar. That’s why Co-cola doesn’t taste as good as it used to! Few sweetened foods actually contain cain sugar anymore. READ THE LABELS, and know what you’re sticking in your body! Corn products are indeed messing up our bodies and propping up the medical and pharmaceutical industries! HFCS = yuck! Let’s burn ‘em in our cars instead!
By kimberly
March 27, 2006 10:24 AM | Link to this
72John, are you saying that these “immigration reform” bills are the result of racism? Are you suggesting that good “Chrissss-chen” folks could be racist? That’s what it looks like to me.
By Chilao
March 27, 2006 10:25 AM | Link to this
Sugar beets are also a primary source of food-sweeteners. A big agricultural product in the northern plain states.
Immigration - I thought NAFTA was going to make all those south-of-the-borders folk want to stay home for those well-paying jobs. Think it was sold that way. So US multi-nationals moved production to border areas, hired mostly women at low wages, (Women less inclined to be union organizers in Latin countries) and bypassed all the EPA regulations in the USA. Great for a multinational’s wealth creation. Did I miss anything? And the men still need to come north, and Mexico prefers that, beats a social revolution at home. LOL
By Jack
March 27, 2006 10:28 AM | Link to this
The FDA standard for food is” If you can’t see the bugs with your bare eyes, it’s ok to eat.”
By The72John
March 27, 2006 10:30 AM | Link to this
It’s possible I’m suggesting that some “Christians” aren’t nearly as dilligent in following Christ’s commands to welcome the stranger and shelter the needy as they are in creating “loopholes” and exceptions for those commands, and doing so in a manner so Byzantine and tortuous that they would make the most hardened, jaded, and wiley lawyer alive spontaneously combust from the mere act of attempting to follow said “logic”.
By The72John
March 27, 2006 10:34 AM | Link to this
The FDA standard for food is” If you can’t see the bugs with your bare eyes, it’s ok to eat.”
That’s why you buy kosher food as often as possible. Their standards are WAY higher.
By Just Being Me
March 27, 2006 10:41 AM | Link to this
So, John, once the “strangers” are here, do you think they should be afforded the same rights and privileges as citizens?
By lozen
March 27, 2006 10:46 AM | Link to this
Hello. I agree this is one lame topic! I agree with Chilao too that conservatives are really out of bounds with wanting to control everything we do. I would have thought Shaunti would be against labeling and Diane would be for it. Just shows you can’t even stereotype conservatives and libruls no more! I read parts of “the decline and fall of the roman empire” this weekend. Folks, we are hanging over the edge here!
By The72John
March 27, 2006 10:48 AM | Link to this
So, John, once the “strangers” are here, do you think they should be afforded the same rights and privileges as citizens?
Well, since most of the illegals are being treated like virtual slaves by their employers, the least we can do is give them something back.
Bottom line - immigrants made this country and continue to make this country. It’s not like this is the first time there’s been an ethnic wave infusing into our culture, and it won’t be the last.
Whatever their ethnicity or standing, no human being deserves to be mistreated or denied basic medical care if they need it.
By Mara
March 27, 2006 10:54 AM | Link to this
72J - Kosher isn’t just more sanitary, it’s also widely agreed that kosher slaughtering techniques are more humane, too.
By Mara
March 27, 2006 10:55 AM | Link to this
72J - Kosher isn’t just more sanitary, it’s also widely agreed that kosher slaughtering techniques are more humane, too.
By Jack
March 27, 2006 10:56 AM | Link to this
As long as they come here and work, I have no problem with them being here. If they come to commit crime or bilk off of our welfare system, we should send them back. They are here to improve their lives, can’t blame them for that.
By The72John
March 27, 2006 10:57 AM | Link to this
Just to clarify my position somewhat - I don’t deny that there is a flood of people pouring into the country illegally, and they are creating something of a strain on the taxbase. Even though they DO pay some tax - sales tax - they don’t contribute via property or income taxes.
My objection is to treating the immigrants like they are the guilty parties, when in reality most of them are just people desperately searching for a better life. Some conservatives say “Well, they’re CRIMINALS”. Sorry, but I don’t buy that argument. Their only crime is, again, searching for a better life. I’m sure every one of us, for instance, has broken various laws - speeding, underage drinking, whatever…let he who is without guilt…
If we want to stem the tide of illegals into the country and get the immigrant population contributing to the tax base, then we need to go after the real crooks - the people who are willing to use them for cheap, regulation-free labor.
Oh, right - conservatives these days are so far up the rear-ends of big business that they wouldn’t DREAM of going after the real culprits. They would rather whip up a xenophobic anti-immigrant frenzy so that no one is focusing on the actual problem.
By Just Being Me
March 27, 2006 11:07 AM | Link to this
John, your 10:57 raises a point in favor of the Fair Tax. How much more money would we take in if we had a consumption tax instead of an income tax? I think I read that there are 11 million illegal immigrants across the country… that’s quite a bit of tax, and at the very least, it could help make up for the lost tax revenue from evaders.
I can discuss either one of these subjects all day, since I don’t really have a definite opinion on either subject.
The only thing I can come up with regarding the immigrants is that if they are here, they need to be permitted to work lawfully (you all know I’m a labor activist), so that they can receive fair wages and pay fair taxes.
By Jack
March 27, 2006 11:09 AM | Link to this
How are the slaughtering techniques more humane?
By The72John
March 27, 2006 11:13 AM | Link to this
Maybe we would make up as much as we would lose when the Fair Tax allows corporations to pay no taxes whatsoever.
By kimberly
March 27, 2006 11:19 AM | Link to this
Don’t be fooled, people. CORPORATIONS (and their chief stockholders as a result) are our biggest welfare recipients!
By Bruce
March 27, 2006 11:19 AM | Link to this
There are ways for these same group of folks to come into this country in a LEGAL manner, why do they have to come illegaly? Most immigrants that helped form this country came legally. This has nothing to do with rather legal citizens break the laws of this country or not. No one says that can’t come to America, just do it legally. Why is that so had to understand?
By Just Being Me
March 27, 2006 11:21 AM | Link to this
From what I’ve read, with their ability to write just about everything off as a business expense, corporations pay wayyyyy less than they should anyway. And, don’t forget to throw in all the money we’d save by nearly eliminating the need for the IRS.
As I said, I don’t necessarily think the FT is the answer, but I do believe strongly that our current tax system sucks hard. We do need a new system.
By The72John
March 27, 2006 11:22 AM | Link to this
Gee Bruce, if it were so EASY, don’t you think they would do it?
You’re the first “Good” Christian to start the immigrant bashing. Why am I not surprised.
Again, why don’t you worry about the people who are creating the demand for illegal labor? It’s a lot easier to despise someone because of racial and ethnic differences, isn’t it, Bruce?
By Chilao
March 27, 2006 11:22 AM | Link to this
Jack - from a Jewish website, I did not know either, just knew the blood was drained, after slaughter.
Ritual slaughter is known as shechitah, and the person who performs the slaughter is called a shochet, both from the Hebrew root Shin-Chet-Tav, meaning to destroy or kill. The method of slaughter is a quick, deep stroke across the throat with a perfectly sharp blade with no nicks or unevenness. This method is painless, causes unconsciousness within two seconds, and is widely recognized as the most humane method of slaughter possible.
By Chilao
March 27, 2006 11:23 AM | Link to this
that was from:
www.jewfaq.org
By Mara
March 27, 2006 11:24 AM | Link to this
72John - many of the previous influxes of immigrants were pre-Immigration Law waves. It wasn’t until the 1920’s that Congress decided that controlled immigration was better than the “come one, come all” philosophy of the previous systems. My greats came over just after the civil war, around 1880 or so. Even then there were laws. According to family legend, they had to undergo medical exams to make sure they weren’t deseased, work training history to make sure they wouldn’t end up a drain on society, and were required to disclose their cash-on-hand to prove they wouldn’t be living on the streets. They complied with the laws, such as they were. Why is it so hard for illegal immigration advocates to understand that the law is the law? Congress made the choice to limit the number of immigrants to no more than society could assimilate during a given period. If that number isn’t enough, Congress should be lobbied and the law should be changed. Not broken, spit on, ignored, or mocked. Changed. So, why shouldn’t we have the right to insist that anyone who wants to live here has to wait their turn? Isn’t that just basic fairness to those who stood (and are standing) in line to do the thing properly? Why shouldn’t we require those who want to live here to respect the law?
By GOB
March 27, 2006 11:25 AM | Link to this
“Most immigrants that helped form this country came legally.”
Bruce - Do you think the Native Americans feel this way?
By Jack
March 27, 2006 11:25 AM | Link to this
The gov’t doesn’t have the balls to eliminate the IRS and go with the fair tax. Another benefit would be the added revenue when drug dealers buy their toys, they would pay their fair share. The gov’t should remember what happened in 1776. Taxation without representation doesn’t fly here.
By The72John
March 27, 2006 11:27 AM | Link to this
By the way, Bruce - are you REALLY so ignorant or naive as to believe that the average impoverished laborer from south-of-the-border has the wherewithal, resources, or knowledge needed to contact the US Dept. of Immigration and obtain a greencard?
The only difference between this wave of immigrants and previous waves is that we’ve decided we don’t want the tired and poor anymore.
By The72John
March 27, 2006 11:30 AM | Link to this
Isn’t that just basic fairness to those who stood (and are standing) in line to do the thing properly? Why shouldn’t we require those who want to live here to respect the law
Again, lay the blame where it belongs - on the factories and farms who create the demand for illegal immigrant labor.
By lozen
March 27, 2006 11:30 AM | Link to this
What is wrong with AJC? Where is my post?
By Julia
March 27, 2006 11:32 AM | Link to this
The only difference between this wave of immigrants and previous waves is that we’ve decided we don’t want the tired and poor anymore.
Good posts 72John.
By GOB
March 27, 2006 11:33 AM | Link to this
It seems odd to me that there are so many people who take such a heavy-handed view of immigration. I work for a company that has plants all over Latin America, and guess what, they are already moving out of Mexico because they have to pay the workers too much (and by too much, I mean about the equivalent of $5 a day for 12 hours of work).
Is it any wonder why they are coming to this country? The wait to go through the proper channels often takes years. If you could feed your children and provide them with a better life without having to wait that long, I think most people would do just what most of the illegals are doing.
We should realize how lucky we are, and most of us have what we have simply because of where we were born. We have opportunities that most of the world doesn’t. It seems very arrogant to me to attempt to deny others those same opportunities because they weren’t born here.
By GOB
March 27, 2006 11:36 AM | Link to this
Mara - The laws that were passed to restrict immigration had less to do with the ability to assimilate into the US society and more to do with their fear of losing the majority and, thus, losing power.
By kimberly
March 27, 2006 11:40 AM | Link to this
Jack, good point; however, I am certain that I NOW EXPERIENCE taxation without represention. You see, I write my elected representatives all the time. And they [have their staff] make it clear to me regularly that they don’t give a rat’s fuzzy a— what I think. Why not? I mean, that is their sworn oath to represent me, right? Not without a BIG FAT CAMPAIGN DONATION, an industry paying me to be a lobbyist, or a congregation I can promise to sway at the next election! In truth, with the exception of Ga. Secretary of State Cathy Cox, I have ZERO representation in government. Zip, zilch, notta. BTW, I just filed my tax return.
By Jack
March 27, 2006 11:47 AM | Link to this
My point exactly my Dear. :)
By The72John
March 27, 2006 11:48 AM | Link to this
Hey, my “representation” is using my tax dollars to attempt to pass laws that discriminate against me.
How’s THAT for a b***.
By Just Being Me
March 27, 2006 11:49 AM | Link to this
GOB, I don’t think the pro-regulation folks are trying to deny immigrants opportunities. I think they’re trying to ensure that everyone has the same equal and fair chance to come to this country safely, and that they will contribute to the economy.
Personally, my concern is how they are treated. The main reason I would ever support any legislation to control the numbers of immigrants that come here is that if they remain illegal, they will almost definitely be exploited. We can’t protect them with our employment laws and union contracts if they are undocumented.
I understand that some may not even live long enough to see “their turn,” but how else can we be fair to all that want to be here?
By Netbanker
March 27, 2006 11:52 AM | Link to this
Agreed…stupid topic and we’ve entered bizzaro world where the conservative stance of personal responsibility only applies to those issues that deal with sex and sexuality.
I’ve got another topic for us. Did anyone read the artcle in the print edition regarding Osama bin Laden and the upcoming attack on the U.S.? He’s been biding his time and addressing the complaints of fellow Islamists about: lack of appropriate warning of attack, offer of a truce, offer to allow the ‘infidels’ to convert to Islam. Over the past several years the nature of Osama’s communications have changed and do appear to be addressing all of these. The most frighten aspect was obtaining a fatwa accepting the use of nuclear attacks on the U.S. that sets the acceptable upper limit of civilians killed at 10 million. We’re safe alright.
By Mara
March 27, 2006 11:53 AM | Link to this
to no particular person - Is Mexico a democracy? Why have they consistantly elected governments that show no interest in improving the economic conditions of their country? Could they elect such a government? When did America become responsible for repairing the damage done by the incompetence of a foreign government to it’s own people?
And John, there’s plenty of blame to go around. Your illegal aliens aren’t all the sainted martyrs they’re being painted as, they come here fully knowing that they are doing something illegal and knowing that they will continue breaking laws (employment verification, job safety laws, fair labor laws, insurance, liscenses, etc. etc.) instead of fixing what’s wrong in their own country. Instead of requiring their own governments to step up to the plate. And damn straight these business’ should be fined. Ol’ Dubya has really fallen down on the job there. I admit that Slick Willie wasn’t terribly gung-ho on the process, but Dubya has changed Clinton’s pre-inspection warning from the INS to a wink-and-a-nod during on-the-job inspections. Sheesh. Fine ‘em in large enough amounts that it’ll make ‘em think twice about hiring illegal workers. Fine ‘em enough and don’t let ‘em write it off as a “business expense”.
See, plenty of blame to go around. That excuses none of the parties. Not the companies that hire and exploit illegals, not the INS/Homeland Security for leaving our borders unsecured, and not the illegal immigrant who just doesn’t respect the laws of this country. That’s my opinion. Come to us legally and we’ll open our arms to you. Sneak in like a thief in the night, don’t expect any sympathy.
By Renee
March 27, 2006 11:55 AM | Link to this
Hi all, won’t be on for long today. I see that you all have moved from topic, THANK GOODNESS, as this was the most ridiculous topic!
Okay illegal immigrant topic. Here goes, really quickly since I’m on short time. I think something really needs to be done to control our borders better. Right now, we leave ourselves open for anything to happen again. I heard it best on Fox News this weekend, it’s not “if we get attacked again, it’s when we get attacked again”.
Fair tax - yes, definitely!!!
I would like to bring up another topic that I think bears significant importance. Global warming. Time has done an in depth story on this and the most recent report indicates that the polar caps will be melted by 2060. This would be total devastation to the planet.
Thoughts.
Hugs to JBM!!
By Just Being Me
March 27, 2006 11:56 AM | Link to this
I have to say that I’m a lot more pleased with my local elected officials than I ever was in New York. Now, once you get up to the Mark Taylor, Sonny Purdue level, all that changes.
By GOB
March 27, 2006 11:57 AM | Link to this
I think to saying to them “wait years to be able to come to this country” is absolutly denying them opportunities to better their lives.
I understand that there are areas in which illegals do not pay their share (income and SS tax), and there should be efforts made to curb those abuses.
My real problem is that we have laws that make it illegal for segments of the world to try and better their lives unless they get the goverment’s permission. I think i read something some where about life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.
By kimberly
March 27, 2006 11:58 AM | Link to this
Denying medical treatment to immigrants, (or anyone!) or making them afraid to seek treatment for fear of arrest and deportation, puts us ALL at risk for infectious diseases. Whatever restrictions are made and enforced, medical treatment should be exempt and completely seperate! Tuberculosis, anyone?
By Chilao
March 27, 2006 12:01 PM | Link to this
Mara - Mexico was a single-party and very corrupt at that, state for many years, say 1915 Pancho Villa era to about 10 years ago, when the main controlling-party lost elections, finally. Don’t hold me to the exact years, but single-party for years very true.
By GOB
March 27, 2006 12:06 PM | Link to this
Mara - Mexico has and has historically had an incredibly corrupt government that has/had no interest in the betterment of it’s people. As long as the politicians were able to get their take, they didnt/dont really care what else happens. Therefore, the argument that they should simple make the changes in their own government to allow them to enjoy a better quality of life as not realistic. If it were that easy, wouldnt every country in the world follow that route?
Our immigration laws are more about voting power than anything else. When those in power saw huge influxes of “others,” they changed the laws to keep the numbers down. Now that the “others (see hispanic)” are starting to vote republican more and more, we see the administration talking about softening the laws.
By Archie
March 27, 2006 12:18 PM | Link to this
Obesity warnings should not be required for soda cans but proper information is not a bad idea for as many foods as possible. My attitude is why not offer a more healthy drink in the school vending machines in the first place. I mean why not offer water,juices and other healthy drinks in school vending machines and take out the sodas since it is school I’m talking about. Obesity is a problem partially because Americans have the money to eat out at “good” restaurants and as Americans we don’t know how to eat healthy. In the south we love that fatback,barbecue pork,fried chicken,cheesecake,red velvet cake, etc. Man I’ve got to go to lunch.
By Archie
March 27, 2006 12:18 PM | Link to this
Obesity warnings should not be required for soda cans but proper information is not a bad idea for as many foods as possible. My attitude is why not offer a more healthy drink in the school vending machines in the first place. I mean why not offer water,juices and other healthy drinks in school vending machines and take out the sodas since it is school I’m talking about. Obesity is a problem partially because Americans have the money to eat out at “good” restaurants and as Americans we don’t know how to eat healthy. In the south we love that fatback,barbecue pork,fried chicken,cheesecake,red velvet cake, etc. Man I’ve got to go to lunch.
By Chilao
March 27, 2006 12:34 PM | Link to this
The Institutional Revolutionary Party (PRI) ruled in Mexico from 1929 to the early 1990/s.
By Chilao
March 27, 2006 12:37 PM | Link to this
pronounced in Mexico, I just learned, as “Pree”. (PRI) (not P-R-I….LOL. I just called someone, said “P-R-I”, she said, “you mean “Pree”?)
By kimberly
March 27, 2006 12:38 PM | Link to this
Archie, that’s a good point, but I’d also like to point out that someone who works two or three jobs to make ends meet does not have time to shop for and prepare fresh veggies and lean meats in their own kitchen. For many of America’s working poor, Burger King, McDonald’s and QuickTrip ARE breakfast, lunch, & dinner.
By Bruce
March 27, 2006 12:54 PM | Link to this
I don’t think what I said was bashing anyone, well maybe someone breaking the law. Like I said come legally and I will defend your right to be here but until then……
And 72John my ignorance is second only to yours.
By Amused
March 27, 2006 01:20 PM | Link to this
If you like to think so, Bruce. Perhaps you can tell me exactly how I am ignorant? I’m not the one who believes in a lilly-white perfect world where starving people can call up the US Government and have a visa expresss mailed to them…that’s apparently you.
By The72John
March 27, 2006 01:27 PM | Link to this
Amused = Me
By Netbanker
March 27, 2006 01:37 PM | Link to this
Archie…I agree with much of what you said, but to quote Ms. Scarlet O’Hara “fiddle-dee-dee” on the idea of any more warnings! I had a good southern meal last night that we prepared at home made up of BBQ ribs, mac n’ cheese, beans, and cole slaw. I would have LOVED some red velvet cake for dessert, but we have Extreme Moosetracks ice cream instead. My point is that while most southern foods (and I had a load of them last night) might be fattening I am anything but fat. I watch the portions that I eat, I exercise, and also stay active instead of bonding with the sofa. My recommendation to those who are fat or obsese (recognizing that SOME people are that way due to medical issues)…Put down the damn fork and walk away from the food! It’s worked for me for 39 years and I am definitely am one of those people who really enjoys food.
By Susie
March 27, 2006 01:39 PM | Link to this
What diane said, “if warning labels worked, we woudn’t have smokers.” I agree. And nor would we have any DUI’s, or Fetal Alcohol Syndrome. A warning label is only as smart as the idiot reading it.
By Archie
March 27, 2006 01:41 PM | Link to this
Kimberly, you can get healthy food in fast food places such as Taco Bell,Wendy’s,Burger King, and Captain D’s. Those are all fast food and cheap. I know from experience you can get a salad for $1 and a junior burger for a 1.29 and a drink for 1.20. That’s 3.71 with tax at BK. There are your .99 kid’s nights. I just found out that one of the mega-churches here in Columbia serves lunch. Anyway my point is you can eat healthy without spending an arm and a leg but you have to be informed and even though you work many jobs you have to make the effort. As Nephew Tommy said weeks ago you have to eat “them greenbeans”. People that do work multiple jobs probably need info on how to get to healthy food in their situation. Now that is a worthy topic. I need information just like everyone else Kimberly, thanks for the response.
By Archie
March 27, 2006 01:44 PM | Link to this
Kimberly, you can get healthy food in fast food places such as Taco Bell,Wendy’s,Burger King, and Captain D’s. Those are all fast food and cheap. I know from experience you can get a salad for $1 and a junior burger for a 1.29 and a drink for 1.20. That’s 3.71 with tax at BK. There are your .99 kid’s nights. I just found out that one of the mega-churches here in Columbia serves lunch. Anyway my point is you can eat healthy without spending an arm and a leg but you have to be informed and even though you work many jobs you have to make the effort. As Nephew Tommy said weeks ago you have to eat “them greenbeans”. People that do work multiple jobs probably need info on how to get to healthy food in their situation. Now that is a worthy topic. I need information just like everyone else Kimberly, thanks for the response.
By Archie
March 27, 2006 01:44 PM | Link to this
Kimberly, you can get healthy food in fast food places such as Taco Bell,Wendy’s,Burger King, and Captain D’s. Those are all fast food and cheap. I know from experience you can get a salad for $1 and a junior burger for a 1.29 and a drink for 1.20. That’s 3.71 with tax at BK. There are your .99 kid’s nights. I just found out that one of the mega-churches here in Columbia serves lunch. Anyway my point is you can eat healthy without spending an arm and a leg but you have to be informed and even though you work many jobs you have to make the effort. As Nephew Tommy said weeks ago you have to eat “them greenbeans”. People that do work multiple jobs probably need info on how to get to healthy food in their situation. Now that is a worthy topic. I need information just like everyone else Kimberly, thanks for the response. Having a hard time posting.
By Archie
March 27, 2006 01:51 PM | Link to this
Net and Kimberly I didn’t say we need more warnings but more information. Netbanker that sounded like a good meal and I just walked 1.5 miles at lunchtime. I am sorry for the multiple posts but my browser acts funny when I hit the post button. Kimberly did bring up a good topic,though. How do we help really busy people eat healthy?
By Susie
March 27, 2006 01:52 PM | Link to this
And Shaunti’s “lack of information” excuse? Which one of us, (anyone here) didn’t have the “food pyramid” drilled into our heads for 12 years in “health” class at school? Remember the teensiest part of the pyramid? “fats and sweets?” it was the teensiest part for a reason…because that’s supposed to be the “smallest” portion of our diets. I grasped that at the age of 7!
When I was 7, I ate what my mother cooked and set before me. When I got older, I made a CHOICE as to what to eat, fully knowing what I learned at age 7 and every year thereafter in health class. There’s not one person who didn’t learn about basic nutrition in school.
Back in October of last year, I actually READ a can of Cherry Coke. Did you all know that there are 42 Grams of SUGAR in a Cherry Coke??? One of my other favorite drinks, a carbonated drink that I can’t find in GA, has 50 grams of sugar!!! FIFTY! I figured it up, that’s almost a quarter of a cup of sugar in one can! I don’t know why it doesn’t solidify with that much sugar!
That day, I replaced my two or three cans of Coke per day with water. Since then, I’ve changed NOTHING else about my dietary habits, but I have dropped from a size 10 jeans to a size 6. THAT is the difference those drinks make, and I’m living proof of it. I don’t need a label to tell me that cutting out about 120 grams of sugar a day made those pants sizes fall off me.
Now, I “allow” myself a Coke whenever I REALLY want one, rather than just swigging them all day. That way I don’t “fall off the wagon” and drink a 12 pack in one sitting! I feel so much better, probably just from being better hydrated, and from NOT having all that POISON crap in me!
By kimberly
March 27, 2006 01:55 PM | Link to this
Archie, yes, fast food is now offering healthier options. Wendy’s was among the first to offer low-fat items. The trend really began to gain ground when Supersize Me won at the Sundance film festival. It was a HUGE embarrassment to McDonald’s, whose cheese & fried chicken laden, ranch-covered salads are just about as fattening as their cheeseburgers & milkshakes. Yes, it IS about the choices we make! Education can only be a good thing is this regard. There are no labels on fast food, and a lot of [ignorant] people just don’t realize that they’re eating TOXIC CRAPOLA.
Rent the movie!
By kimberly
March 27, 2006 02:01 PM | Link to this
Susie, Rock ON, gurrrl! Me too! Hey, it’s a lot easier to be a skinny chick in America than a buxom one, huh? Men that used to look right past me like I wasn’t even there, now stop and smile and check me out. (Shallow…. sad…. and proof that we are, as a society, shallow and sad.) But it sure feels GOOOOOOD to be a size six! Also, my cholesterol came down 20 points, and my triglycerides came down 50! FREE YOURSELVES, PEOPLE!
By Susie
March 27, 2006 02:12 PM | Link to this
Kimberly, I don’t really feel like I look any different, but that’s probably because the change was so gradual that I didn’t notice it happening until one day my pants were falling off! I guess I do look smaller, but I really don’t see it. I was never overweight in the first place, not really, but I did have a few pounds to lose, apparently. I think I lost all over a little bit so it’s not so obvious. I am not a good “dieter,” so if not drinking Cokes and other carbonated drinks is my only sacrifice, I’m happy to do it.
It is sad that it’s easier to be skinny, but I guess that’s the way it is.
Hey, another thing I’ve discovered is that if you eat a small bunch of red grapes first thing in the morning, and then another one any time during the day when you need a snack, you’ll even lose more weight, because they satisfy your “carb” need and the other foods you crave will be healthier instead of garbage. The red grapes also act as a diuretic and help you not retain fluids, from what I read. I started craving the grapes after I cut out the Cokes, I guess because my body was screaming for the sugar. Anyway, they keep you from overeating at meals, so that’s one good thing…I find that the most important “bunch” is my first-thing-in-the-morning bunch…I eat less ALL DAY if I have them first thing.
By Archie
March 27, 2006 02:12 PM | Link to this
Sounds like you’re fine Kimberly. As men we are visual creatures and I don’t think we’re shallow,we just like what we like. Kimberly keep making your point about your cholestorol. I feel better about my eating habits now than I do about my eating habits ten years ago.
By Moni
March 27, 2006 02:12 PM | Link to this
Okay, here’s my proposed warning label:
“Eating too much will make you fat.”
Put it on everything, except maybe celery - did you know that you actually burn calories eating celery?
As for taxes, I’m for the flat tax. Eliminate the IRS and filing taxes; just take 10% out of my paycheck.
By Chilao
March 27, 2006 02:26 PM | Link to this
I thought it an accomplishment, without even trying really, to have an acceptable cholesterol level the first time I was tested, at age 45 or so. I “blamed” it on my health-food-nut parents. I eat alot of avocadoes, 4-6 a week, all sliced(not guacamoled), and I learn that they actually reduce cholesterol. I learned that at the avocado growers a*’n web site so I know it has to be true. LOL(A little pun on what we learn on the web, may or may not be the truth). Have encountered that about avocadoes elsewhere since.
as opposed to the fast food junkies I work with, my age or younger, who have cholesterol “problems” and have to watch what they eat.
I actually credit my healthy eating habits. I have had friends remark “You know, for a smoker, you sure eat well”. LMAO
By Julia
March 27, 2006 02:47 PM | Link to this
Kimberly-I’m right there with you. Started eating healthy and gave up the diet sodas and got back to a size 6. The head turns make you feel good but also make you realize that “hey, I’m the same person I used to be on the inside”. The type of guys that do the head turns are not the ones I want to date at this stage. (Still…makes ya feel good.)
By Whiley
March 27, 2006 02:51 PM | Link to this
Kimberly, how did you get your cholesterol down 20 points, & how long did that take???
By Archie
March 27, 2006 02:56 PM | Link to this
I don’t want a flat tax as that favors the rich. Right now in my tax bracket my effective tax rate is 7.98 so although it sounds good a flat tax would be an increase for me. Taxes need to be adjusted by income. One of the problems that people have with taxes is that they just can’t cheat as good as they would like. No matter what the topic is people just aren’t honest about their motivation. I am speaking of federal taxes.
By Jack
March 27, 2006 03:26 PM | Link to this
Woof, woof!!!
By chuck
March 27, 2006 03:36 PM | Link to this
Gob, you have a very warped view of the way society works. Hey, I’m just trying to make a better life for my family so I’m going to do that by CUTTING IN LINE.
There are currently 12,000,000 ILLEGAL ALIENS (according to Good Morning America this morning) in the United States. 67% of those are Mexicans. In California alone, the cost to the CITIZENS of that state is over 10,000,000,000 per year. The State’s “cheap labor” costs the average household $1,183 a year. Is it okay for them to make a better life for THEIR families by taking $1183.00 per year away from LEGAL families? In Arizona on welfare and food stamp costs alone, Illegal immigration cost that state $5,000,000 and over $30,000,000 for healthcare. That does not include the millions spent for education, infrastructure, and any manner of other costs associated with increased population. For instance, one county had to bury 100 illegal aliens who died there at a cost of over $200,000 in one year.
In one article:
Even studies claiming some modest overall gain for the economy from immigration ($1 to $10 billion a year) have found that it is outweighed by the fiscal cost ($15 to $20 billion a year) to native taxpayers.2 In short, the average native taxpayer is paying for immigration so that large companies can profit by employing immigrants in low-wage positions.
72john, I don’t take the position that you assume…I think companies who knowingly OR unknowingly hire illegal aliens should be PROSECUTED. I think EVERY agency that receives ANY federal money should be required to report illegals. Every CITIZEN should be required to report illegals.
I don’t understand why this is so difficult for pepole to understand. WE ARE A NATION OF LAWS. Can we just ignore the laws we disagree with? If so, 72john, you should be justifying what Eric Rudolph did. He was just trying to protect innocent babies. Maybe you sympathize with the 9/11 terrorists. After all they were just trying to make the world safe for Islam. If my family is poor, can I steal from YOURS? I just want a better life for them.
The liberal position on this issue is insanity. The conservative one is not much better. It is not right to give a job to someone who is here illegally.
BTW, from the Bureau of Labor Statistics:
Both the number of unemployed persons, 7.2 million, and the unemployment rate, 4.8 percent, were little changed in February. A year earlier, the number of unemployed was 8.0 million, and the jobless rate was 5.4 percent.
We have 12,000,000 illegal aliens and only 7,200,000 unemployed Americans. Do the MATH
By Bruce
March 27, 2006 03:38 PM | Link to this
It is really simple, if you want to come into this country, come legally. What do you not understand about that. I don’t care how long it takes. People do it all the time, even some from South of the Border. Now was that really that hard? Simplify the process if that is what it takes but do not allow ANYONE entrance into the US unless they are here legally.
Gee I would continue this intellgent debate with you but I hate doing battle with unarmed people.
By Tek Jansen
March 27, 2006 03:41 PM | Link to this
Boy, did this blog come to a screeching halt
By Nikita
March 27, 2006 03:51 PM | Link to this
On the original discussion, it’s possible to eat healthily in most contexts, which of course are too complex to get across on a label. But that label is a great improvement over what we used to have, and it gives us all the information we need, in most cases, to make healthy decisions. Which in my opinion is the best we can do. If anything, I’d support making all food providers list nutritional information in a way that is accessible to the on-site customer. That way we really know what we’re consuming if we care to know.
On to illegal immigration…I dislike illegal immigration for numerous reasons and want it stopped. However, the crowd that blames immigrants solely is either woefully naive or racist. First, most lower and middle class mexicans cannot emigrate or even visit America legally, since the process requires that they demonstrate a large chunk of savings which would be seized by the Mex. Govt. if they disappear or fail to return for additional procedures. Second, the reason they come here is because they fuel the needs of big business for inexpensive, legally-unprotected, grey market labor which allows business to avoid hiring citizens. In other words there’s a powerful incentive for not changing the system to allow working class mexicans to emigrate legally because illegal immigrants are cheaper. So, nothing short of a comprehensive policy which would include workplace raids, heavy fines to employers, deportation, and changes to make the immigration policy more logical would be appropriate.
By candide
March 27, 2006 03:54 PM | Link to this
Moni: 10% is not enough, sorry.
By Netbanker
March 27, 2006 04:22 PM | Link to this
Point taken Archie, but how much more information is needed? It seems to me that food labels have plenty of information on them already especially if you look only at the serving size and number of calories. How fattening a food/beverage is can be pretty easily determined from those two bits of information.
I think Susie pretty much has us covered. We ALL learned about the food pyramid early and repeatedly in school. It’s not rocket science to realize that if you’re gaining weight you either need to burn more calories or consume fewer calories to lose/control weight.
By Julia
March 27, 2006 04:43 PM | Link to this
What’s going on? I can’t view anything past 2:12pm. It’s now 4:41pm! What in the world is happening to this blog?
By Mara
March 28, 2006 08:22 AM | Link to this
Alrighty then. Let’s find out if the AJC W2W is gonna let us post this morning. Any guess on when the “Post” function will cease to actually post the commments? Yesterday it went bonkers at 2:12. I’m gonna put my money on…1:27 p.m. for no reason other than it seems a nice enough number.
Now, to post. I’m sure you all saw the story in todays AJC about the A 55-year-old Lawrenceville man who has been charged with raping and impregnating his 16-year-old daughter, and with raping his 19-year-old mentally disabled stepdaughter.
My question for Jack, Julia, Chuck, Monica or Charlene - all y’all have railed against abortion. Now we see a real (non-hypothetical) situation of incestuous rape resulting in pregnancy. Are you still adamant about re-victimizing this 16-yr old child by forcing her to sacrifice what’s left of her childhood? Are you still comfortable telling her that her rights to say what happens to her own body ended the night her father raped her? Are you?
By Bruce
March 28, 2006 09:40 AM | Link to this
Can’t say I agree with this “Shoot First” legistation, how about you guys?
By Just Being Me
March 28, 2006 09:46 AM | Link to this
Are we having blog problems again, or has no one posted since 2:12 yesterday????
And, speaking of 2:12, Moni, the Flat Tax does not propose taking 10% out of your paycheck??????
By Just Being Me
March 28, 2006 09:51 AM | Link to this
Mara, I think you meant Zack, not Jack.
I didn’t read that article, but I’m going to hunt for it now…
By GOB
March 28, 2006 10:00 AM | Link to this
Chuck and Bruce - I am aware that our nation is based on the rule of law. My issue, however, is that it is very easy for you to tell some poor sap who wants to make sure his kids can get an education that he just needs to wait in line, regardless of what happens to him or his family.
The problem isn’t the immigrants; it is the laws that criminalize trying to improve their lives. I believe that the vast majority of illegals would be willing to pay taxes, etc, but they simply aren’t given the chance. What is the real reason behind this country’s insistence on criminalizing it? I understand and agree with having a processing agency, but to have quotas, etc limiting the number of people we allow in seems to go against the very ideals the country was founded on.
A lot of the comments on this topic come across as very smug and condescending. It is the equivalent of a rich teenager looking at a ghetto and asking why they don’t just make more money and buy a nicer house. The only thing that differentiates any of us from a Mexican working in a sewing plant for $5 a day is where our parents happened to live. I think that is something a lot of people forget, or never actually consider it in the first place.
Either that or we are all illegals as far as the Native Americans are concerned…
By kimberly
March 28, 2006 10:03 AM | Link to this
Whiley, I lost 25 pounds in seven months: Six the first month, four the next, and two to four pounds per month subsequently. This is the way to go, as it stays off better, and doesn’t shock your system. The cholesterol/triglyceride results were from my annual exams before and after this effort.
By Chilao
March 28, 2006 10:24 AM | Link to this
speaking of Native Americans, anyone seen the poster, available on a TeeShirt, shows Geronimo and 3 other armed Apaches, with the heading “Homeland Security” and underneath it “Fighting Terrorism since 1492”. I just received three mail-order, one for me, one for a brother, a third for a buddy.
My buddy has vowed to wear it when he is around Republicans. He’s just that kind of guy. He used to run his straight-pipe Harley downtown about 11am Sunday morning.
By Mara
March 28, 2006 10:32 AM | Link to this
JBM - you are right. Thanks for catching that “oops!” moment. Goldern typing fingers. Sorry Jack. My mind said “Zack” but my fingers typed “Jack”.
Perhaps I just had you on my mind :^)
By The72John
March 28, 2006 10:39 AM | Link to this
Yes, Chuck, you are so right. Having compassion for poor people who are simply trying to build better lives for themselves is EXACTLY like Eric Rudolph blowing up a gay bar. Brilliant.
This is exactly the kind of compassionless, hate-filled nonsense that I expect from a “Christian” like you. Jesus loves you, as long as you’re white and American, is that it, Chuck? It amazes me how many ways you hypocritical faux-Christians find to avoid actually doing what Christ tells you.
By the way, Schmuck, how many times have YOU exceeded the speed limit? That’s a LAW, isn’t it?
It is really simple, if you want to come into this country, come legally. What do you not understand about that. I don’t care how long it takes. People do it all the time, even some from South of the Border. Now was that really that hard? Simplify the process if that is what it takes but do not allow ANYONE entrance into the US unless they are here legally.
It’s been pointed out to you many times, Bruce, and you keep ignoring it, that most of these people don’t have the resources or the knowledge to go through proper channels.
I realize it’s easier to pretend they do, but they simply don’t.
You and Chuck should start a church together - Our Lady of Self-Righteous Bigotry and Indignation. That seems to describe the both of you to a “t”.
By The72John
March 28, 2006 10:46 AM | Link to this
My issue, however, is that it is very easy for you to tell some poor sap who wants to make sure his kids can get an education that he just needs to wait in line, regardless of what happens to him or his family.
You assume that Chuck or Bruce actually care about what happens to people that don’t fit their definition of human. If you aren’t white, heterosexual, Evangelical Christian, and American, they have no compassion or concern for you whatsoever. For them, immigrants are just vermin that need to be cleaned out of their formerly lilly-white towns.
Never mind the fact that immigrant waves have supported this country’s economc since its inception. Just get those non-white non-Protestants OUT!
By kimberly
March 28, 2006 10:50 AM | Link to this
72John, I think you’re missing the point. Chuck comes here to pick on us because he LIKES us, and deep down inside, he really wants to BE one of us, but he doesn’t know how to admit that all the BullDung he’s been slinging all his life is a GollDanged LIE without looking like a complete idjit. Let’s help him find a way to repent and be free.
Chuck….. Just say you’re sorry. Repent, and we’ll forgive you and show you a better way.
By Whiley
March 28, 2006 10:52 AM | Link to this
Kimberly that is really good 25 lbs! I’m doing something wrong, I’m completely plateaued. Probably an age thing.
How do you jump-start your metabolism without exercising all day long? (without drugs, yes that takes all the fun out of it)
By Netbanker
March 28, 2006 10:53 AM | Link to this
Before anyone answers Mara’s questions about abortion (and they are very good questions) I suggest you take a read from yesterday’s Opinion page of Bills would intensify pain of sexual assault victims
Think hard about the experiences of this young woman and internalize her first hand account before making blanket statements or restatements of arm chair opinions. There is a lot of truth to the axiom of ‘walking a mile in another person’s shoes’
GOB’s point is also valid regarding each of us being fortunate to have been born in the U.S. and from what I can gather into families that value education and hard work regardless of economic status. Seems to me that many of the illegal immigrant families hold those same values in higher esteem that most American born citizens. What does it say about us that we want to make it harder for people who ascribe to American values to come here in favor of American citizens who seem to reject those values in favor of an entitlement mentality?
By Netbanker
March 28, 2006 10:56 AM | Link to this
Ok…yet another topic to banter around…unsecure borders. How frightening is THIS little news ditty? Border guards fail ‘dirty bomb’ test
By Bruce
March 28, 2006 10:57 AM | Link to this
And what you don’t seem to graps is the thousands (maybe millions) that are in the same circumstances as these Mexicans that come, but come legally.
Man you are a piece of work. You sit back and call these imigrants poor and stupid and then critize me! Keep showing your ignorance.
By Mara
March 28, 2006 10:59 AM | Link to this
GOB - I completely disagree with your analogy. It’s nothing like the rich person looking down on ghetto folk and thinking that they just need to make more money. It’s very, very different. Here’s a closer example. You got a guy who believes that pot should be legal. He lobbies for it, he protests about it, he writes letters to the editor. At the same time, he realizes that it’s still illegal, so when the drug dealer moves in next door, he calls the cops and reports them. You can sympathize, you can empathize, and you can believe that the law is erroneous. That does not negate the fact (and it is a fact) that being in this country without permission is ILLEGAL.
Do you excuse people who burgle homes for money, maybe even to feed their kids? Do you excuse people who shop-lift and then return the merch for cash? Do you ignore the drug dealer on the corner because obviously, he wouldn’t be dealing drugs if he could make a living legally? At what point do we say, “Oh, that’s okay. They’re only doing it for the money.”? I’m not saying that I’ve never slipped onto the shady side of the law. I’ve sped, I’ve run stop signs, and as a child, I may have liberated a candy bar or two from the local mini-mart. But…I know (and even as a child I knew) that if I’m caught, I should expect to be punished. Do I agree with all laws? No. Do I think that people who break the laws I disagree with should get off, or even be rewarded? No, sir. I don’t. You do the crime, you do the time.
Most of us say that “Yes, we like immigrants” and “Yes, we should let more immigrants come here” and “Yes, the system should be streamlined and expanded to help immigrants become citizens.” But at the same time most also say “Coming to the US illegally is unacceptable.” Contrary to the opinions of many a immigration activist, most of us are not xenophobic or anti-immigrant. Most of us do respect the rule of law. As I said in a previous post, come to us legally and we’ll open our arms to you. Sneak in like a thief in the night, don’t expect any sympathy.
By Jack
March 28, 2006 11:02 AM | Link to this
Hi Mara. I knew you couldn’t have meant me. :)
Chuck. If your family is starving and the only way to save them is to cross into another country illegally to work, you wouldn’t do it? (only is the operative word here)
By Bruce
March 28, 2006 11:03 AM | Link to this
Well said Mara, I agree 100%
By Just Being Me
March 28, 2006 11:06 AM | Link to this
Same issue on a smaller scale:
I live in the APS school “zone.” But, just like the immigrants Gob describes, I want my child to get a better education and my daughter doesn’t test well, so she won’t get accepted into a good private school.
Since moving is not an option for me, I used a friend’s address to get my daughter into a better school, because that’s what’s best for my child.
That’s wrong isn’t it? Should we do away with all these restrictions, despite the pesky matter of taxes, so all our children have an equal opportunity to receive a good education? What happens to the students who rightfully attend the “good” schools? Is it unfair to the taxpayers of the “good” school zone? But, what about the students???
By Julia
March 28, 2006 11:08 AM | Link to this
Ok, I think it was Mara who posed the question about the 16 year old rape victim.
Two wrongs never make a right. He committed rape so now you’re going to advocate that she commit murder of an innocent human being? The child has done no wrong and should not have to pay with his or her life for the crimes of the biological father (or mother).
She will have a long road ahead to heal from this experience but why compound it with making her lie on a table while a total stranger (male) inserts things inside her that destroys her baby. (Yes, it’s HER baby as well.)
You should know that some women describe the abortion experience like being raped. You’re giving her much more to live with and causing more trauma to make her end the child’s life.
There’s a book called “Victims and Victors” which goes into detail about children conceived in rape or incest. It goes into detail about the women and their feelings on both sides of the issue. it was very eye opening. You can’t just write off a child conceived this way as someone who will be a wasted life. That’s ridiculous. And yes, there is always adoption-giving a child life instead of death. That’s much more helpful to the healing process than having her live through an abortion as well.
(DISCLAIMER: THIS IS MY OPINION. YOU ASKED FOR IT-SO THERE IT IS.)
P.S. I hope today doesn’t turn into another abortion debate. Let’s go to another topic. We will never agree on this one.
By kimberly
March 28, 2006 11:14 AM | Link to this
Whiley, not gonna lie, Hon. Had to ditch the meds. Nothing worked for me either, until I did. Then I went psycho. Blood sugar roller coaster. Carb cravings, unanswered, turned into some severly unpleasant emotions. Screamed at the dog… poor baby… for things dogs just DO. Went to bed hungry, a lot. Just kept thinking about people who go to bed hungry because they have no choice. Ate a healthy, balanced diet of no more than 1700 calories a day, but usually 1200 to 1500. Once the weak & dizzy stuff passed (several weeks) I was able to begin exercising. Eased into it. Calories are like a budget: numbers over time. Put time over numbers, and you win.
By The72John
March 28, 2006 11:15 AM | Link to this
Man you are a piece of work. You sit back and call these imigrants poor and stupid and then critize me! Keep showing your ignorance.
Interesting that you use the word “ignorant”, Bruce. It seems to describe you perfectly. “Poor” is not pejorative, it is descriptive of the circumstances of the typical illegal. As for suggesting I call them stupid, well, that is just silly, and frankly a typical response from someone who most likely gets his political news from Limbaugh and Hannity.
Suggesting that someone lacks a particular piece of information is not analagous with calling him stupid. It’s not as if the average Mexican worker can run home and Google “US Immigration”, now is it? How much do YOU know about the immigration requirements of other countries?
I would also be interested in seeing a demographic breakdown of legal v. illegal immigrants. I suspect that you will find that the legal immigrants are already better off as a group than the illegal.
He defends the cause of the fatherless and the widow, and loves the alien, giving him food and clothing. And you are to love those who are aliens, for you yourselves were aliens in Egypt.
By Jack
March 28, 2006 11:16 AM | Link to this
They should remove his package and feed it to him.
By Chilao
March 28, 2006 11:18 AM | Link to this
JBM - laughing at the school issue. I once resided in one state, but since tuition for JC was much cheaper in the next state, had an address at my girlfriend’s Dad’s house, in the next state, and drove 1 hour to school, each way, to get a better tuition rate at the JC. Now I’m not naming states, I’m just sayin’, LOL
By RF
March 28, 2006 11:23 AM | Link to this
JBM- eventually we’ll have voucherss so people will be able to choose schools without district lines. I think you did absolutely the right thing. I’d do it too for the sake of my child. I like the way Decatur is doing it. You can pay “tuition” and attend from out of district.
By GOB
March 28, 2006 11:25 AM | Link to this
Mara - I am not disagreeing with what you said at all. My main point is this: All of us that were born in this country find ourselves in a position that is envied by 99% of the world. We have the ability to allow more people access to this position, but because our lawmakers are afraid of losing power, they prohibit large numbers of people from entering the country legally to take advantage of the opportunities here. As soon as the lawmakers feel like their power isn’t threatened, they change the laws, hoping to get another voting block.
For a country founded on the ideals of liberty and opportunity, we all seem to be pretty concerned about providing that liberty and opportunity to a small number of people. It just seems to go against what this country should be about.
Chuck - Illegal immigrants are not taking jobs from Americans. The jobs that most illegals take are ones that even the poorest American looks down his nose at.
Bruce - Without the internet or access to any real phone service, do you think you would be able to find out the process required to enter another country legally?
By chuck
March 28, 2006 11:26 AM | Link to this
I see as usual that poor old 72 cannot have a sane, rational conversation without calling names. Have you ever stopped to consider that people can disagree on subjects? It would be easy to call you an idiot and try to trash you the way that you try to trash me. Face it, you are a pretty easy target. The point is that you don’t have enough common sense to even put forth a rational argument on any topic. Your basic argument is “I’m right, you’re wrong, that’s it.” That may work in your community, but it doesn’t work in the real world where you have to actually back up your position with facts. You cannot refute ANYTHING that I wrote so you call names. How mature you are. Maybe that’s why the democrats can’t seem to win any elections. They (you) have NO IDEAS.
This doesn’t have ANYTHING to do with compassion. As soon as school is out I am making my second trip to Romania to take medical supplies and clothes to an orphanage there. I am taking ove 500 books that I’ve collected to 2 high school English teachers that I met there last year so that their students can have books to read in English. We have groups going to Guatemala, China, Russia, Venezuela, Mexico, Costa Rica, and Belize. We have groups going to Orlando, New York’s Hell’s Kitchen area, and Appalachia. What have you done besides sit on your sorry butt? Maybe give a couple of bucks to United Way? Don’t even think about talking to me about compassion.
This issue is about PRESERVING SOMETHING THAT YOU APPARENTLY KNOW NOTHING ABOUT…THE AMERICAN WAY OF LIFE. It is what keeps us strong enough to be able to solve SOME of the world’s problems. It’s what gives us the will to try. My Brother-in-law is a first generation American whose parents were born in Mexico and immigrated LEGALLY to the United States. I have ABSOLUTELY NO PROBLEM WITH LEGAL IMMIGRATION. NONE.
What I do have a problem with is the economic devestation that is going to hit this country if we allow this to continue.
1) We MUST be able to control the number of people who come into the country so that they can be assimilated into our country AND way of life. We want them to AMERICANS, not Mexicans living in America. Face it, if they bring THEIR CULTURE to America, what have we accomplished? If their culture is so great, why would they want to come here. If their way of life is so successful what is it they want with America? It is OUR WAY OF LIFE that makes us successful. Assimilation of people from all over the world has been one of the keys to our success. Good Morning America reported yesterday that by 2025 1 in four people living in America will be HISPANIC. Is that necessarily a good thing?
2)We need to control our borders to keep CRIMINALS and TERRORISTS out.
3)We need to control our borders to protect our economy so we can afford to help those in need. 12,000,000 illegals working here 7.2 million AMERICANS out of work. That’s a GOOD thing?
4)We need to enforce OUR LAWS. I am not saying we should lock illegals up, but we should definitely send them back.
Here is the question. If they know the kinds of things to do that make them succesful here, what is to stop them from doing those things at home. We got self-determination through a revolution. If they don’t like the corruption and poor function of their government, they need to change it. They are not here to contribute to our society, they are here to TAKE FROM IT and send it to Mexico and points south. I don’t think that is a good thing.
You asked a question 72, Have I ever gone faster than the speed limit? Yes I have. If I was CAUGHT breaking that law, I would suffer the consequences for that. With immigration, you don’t want ANYONE to be caught. You want everybody to LOOK THE OTHER WAY and ignore it. We have police who patrol our streets to keep me from speeding. Your analogy is that they should turn off the radar guns and pretend that they are reading the paper when I fly past them. That is asinine.
By RF
March 28, 2006 11:26 AM | Link to this
Net— HIGH FIVE for the 10:53!! I see it every day in my classroom. The kids think they’ll automatically get a job,car,house, etc. whether the have an education and are willing to work hard or not. Talk about entitlement mentality!
By chuck
March 28, 2006 11:32 AM | Link to this
JBM, I can’t believe that as a MINISTER of the Gospel, you justify LYING for the supposed betterment of your child. Don’t ever call me a hypocrite again.
By Whiley
March 28, 2006 11:34 AM | Link to this
Jesus Julia, that’s a sickening thing to say.
It is extremely distressing to know there are some people that think like you do, & you don’t even realize what you are really saying.
Who the hell raises their kids to think like this? People really su@#k sometimes. Which is why each & every person in our govt. needs to really make clear where they stand so we can vote them immediately out of office if they are so pro-fetus/ pro-rapists.
By Mara
March 28, 2006 11:36 AM | Link to this
So Julia thinks, and I paraphrase here, that “yes, this 16-year old child should be forced to carry the fruits of rape to term. Her health and even the remnants of her childhood are secondary to making sure she is forced to watch her body swell from that of a pubescent child to one of imposed adulthood. Her rights ended when her father forced his sperm into her v**** and created a baby.”
How very…compassionate. Thanks for sharing your opinion.
And FYI - there’re lots of female Ob-gyn’s out there so positing that an abortion provider must necessarily be male is rediculous. Nor is feeling debilitating remorse or shame an integral part of having an abortion.
By Julia
March 28, 2006 11:38 AM | Link to this
Whiley,you don’t even realize what you are really saying.
Yes, I do. Choosing life over death under every circumstance. (Yeah, I can see why that makes ME someone who SU@K$ and doesn’t deserve to be in office!)
By Julia
March 28, 2006 11:44 AM | Link to this
Mara-there’re lots of female Ob-gyn’s out there so positing that an abortion provider must necessarily be male is rediculous
There are lots of female OB/GYN’s but not lots of female abortionists. To say 97% are male would ge generous from what I’ve researched.
So, you think the innocent human being should be torn limb from limb via abortion because of the crimes of her biological father? To quote you, “How very…compassionate.”
By The72John
March 28, 2006 11:47 AM | Link to this
Chuck, has it ever occured to you that I don’t bother to have a rational conversation with you because you aren’t worth it? You are a hypocritical jerk who prattles on about his devotion to a relgion, the tennets of which you almost entirely ignore. You aren’t worth rational debate.
With immigration, you don’t want ANYONE to be caught. You want everybody to LOOK THE OTHER WAY and ignore it.
Did you read anything I wrote? I said that my primary objection to the current climate is the emphasis on treating illegal aliens like hardened criminals who shouldn’t be treated humanely simply because they are here without official sanction. I never said we shouldn’t work to stem the flood of immigrants.
Typically, you read what you want to read and ignore the rest.
By GOB
March 28, 2006 11:49 AM | Link to this
Face it, if they bring THEIR CULTURE to America, what have we accomplished?
Well, I would say that for the last 400 years or so, people bringing their cultures with them to this country has built what you call “our way of life.”
12,000,000 illegals working here 7.2 million AMERICANS out of work. That’s a GOOD thing?
There might be 12M illegals in the U.S., but most those that are working are doing so in jobs that Americans (even the unemployed ones) dont want. How many Americans do you see in the Home Depot parking lot at 5am?
Good Morning America reported yesterday that by 2025 1 in four people living in America will be HISPANIC. Is that necessarily a good thing?
Is it a bad thing? It is a simple fact, nothing more or less. Just because we have a larger Hispanic population doesnt mean that the US is going to become the dusty wasteland that is the TV world view of Mexico.
We got self-determination through a revolution. If they don’t like the corruption and poor function of their government, they need to change it.
Yeah, if I simply want to provide a better life for my family, the best way is to overthrow my countries government if i dont like their policies?
By The72John
March 28, 2006 11:49 AM | Link to this
3)We need to control our borders to protect our economy so we can afford to help those in need. 12,000,000 illegals working here 7.2 million AMERICANS out of work. That’s a GOOD thing?
Corellation does not equal causality, Chuck. There’s no reason to believe that the unemployment rate would be any different were the 12,000,000 immigrants NOT here. After all, the economy expands to provide services to those 12,000,000, CREATING jobs in addition to the ones those people fill.
And you teach economics?
By Whiley
March 28, 2006 11:50 AM | Link to this
Good post Mara, and might I say I’ve never had a male OBGYN. I’d never consider it, unless George Clooney decides to change careers.
Julia, I would probably agree with you if a fetus was a baby. A fetus is much a person as a tadpole is a frog. Or a scrambled egg is a chicken. Or an acorn is a oak tree. A fetus is not a baby, period. And you are correct, you should not hold any office that has the potential to create oppressive & F@#$ed up laws. It’s for the best. But hey if you want to bear the children of a rapist, go right ahead.
By Julia
March 28, 2006 11:51 AM | Link to this
Mara-heck I guess neither one of us can spell today!LOL
By GOB
March 28, 2006 11:51 AM | Link to this
Julia - What is your position on the war in Iraq? Did/do you support it?
By RF
March 28, 2006 11:54 AM | Link to this
chuck- I have a friend who owns his building construction business. He hires immigrant crews mostly, all of whom must have at least a green card. He quit hiring all American crews because they were doing substandard work and demanded above standard pay. His immigrant crews work hard, fast, and produce quality. He said he’d gladly hire American citizens if they were willing to work to the level he expects for his business. If we just load them up and ship them back, you’d be surprised what a negative impact it would have on our economy. We have WAY too many ‘working poor’ who are willing to stay that way because it’s easy.
I agree we need to secure our borders. Yet another daunting government task that will never be handled well.
By The72John
March 28, 2006 11:55 AM | Link to this
We have groups going to Orlando, New York’s Hell’s Kitchen area, and Appalachia. What have you done besides sit on your sorry butt? Maybe give a couple of bucks to United Way? Don’t even think about talking to me about compassion.
You have no idea what I do with my time, Schmuck…I have more compassion in my little finger than your entire family has in it’s self-righteous, bigoted bodies. Every post you make demonstrates how cold and vicious you actually are. The only “charity” work YOU do involves going places with your church so that you can preach at people who are vulnerable because of poverty or tragedy. I’m sure it makes you feel good about yourself, you sanctimonious a*.
This issue is about PRESERVING SOMETHING THAT YOU APPARENTLY KNOW NOTHING ABOUT…THE AMERICAN WAY OF LIFE. It is what keeps us strong enough to be able to solve SOME of the world’s problems. It’s what gives us the will to try.
You don’t actually believe this nonsense, do you? What’s more American than giving up everything you own to go somewhere and make a better life? I guess you have forgotten the entire history of our nation. YOUR American “way of life” if the way of uniformity, prejudice and rigid thought.
By Julia
March 28, 2006 11:58 AM | Link to this
GOB-no, I don’t support the war in Iraq. Now that we’re there however, I support our troops and our country.
By Just Being Me
March 28, 2006 11:58 AM | Link to this
I’m trying to figure out at which point I JUSTIFIED lying???? You are so busy trying to start up with me today that you completely overlooked the fact that my underlying question, which was clearly stated, was: “That’s wrong, isn’t it?”
I am clearly acknowledging that lying about your address (or on your taxes, for that matter, or lying to take a sick day) is wrong. As is speeding.
The purpose of my telling that story, exposing my own wrongdoing, is to compare the acts that people commit in desperation to give their children a better life, and to demonstrate that despite how much parents want for their children, they should not break the law or commit other fraudulent acts to obtain it.
Sorry, demon. You can’t get me on this one, but I’m sure if you stick around a little longer, you’ll catch me showing just how fallible I am. Then you can finally prove for once and for all that I AM A FILTHY, DIRTY SINNER!!!!
You’re such an idiot.
By Julia
March 28, 2006 12:01 PM | Link to this
Whiley, ok, let’s use the term fetus. So, you see nothing wrong with destroying a fetus (small human life with ten fingers and ten toes and a beating heart) because of the crimes of the father? The rapist goes to jail and the innocent fetus has to pay with it’s life???
I don’t think YOU need to be in office my dear.
By Mara
March 28, 2006 12:04 PM | Link to this
Julia - how many limbs does an unformed embryo have?
At 6 weeks it’s still indistiguishable from the embryos of a rabbit or elephant. It still has a tail for heavens sake. It’s “limbs” aren’t even budded out yet. At 8 weeks, it still has no bones. Since most abortions are performed between the 8th and 10th week, I’m not seeing a lot of limb tearing there.
torn limb from limb HA! Propaganda. Sheer propaganda.
By chuck
March 28, 2006 12:12 PM | Link to this
I didn’t say that the 12,000,000 CAUSED the unemployment of the 7.2 million. I wonder how many of those 7.2 million would be employed IF we didn’t have 12 million illegals.
Gob, are there no Americans who would do construction work who are out of jobs? The illegals who take those jobs work OFF THE BOOKS for less money. They depress wages and YES, they increase the unemployment and UNDEREMPLOYMENT of Americans. I haven’t seen the studies that give actual numbers but I have heard those studies referred to on GMA and other news programs.
Also, I don’t mind the idea of people maintaining ASPECTS of their home cultures. That is not the problem. The problem comes when people move their culture and language to America in its entirety and fail to adopt the culture of America. We spend billions of dollars dealing with this in education alone. Turn of the century immigrants made sure their children BECAME Americans by making them learn the LANGUAGE AND THE CULTURE. We need Mexicans who become AMERICANS, not Mexicans living in America.
By Chilao
March 28, 2006 12:12 PM | Link to this
It still has a tail for heavens sake
A tail? Like a monkey or any other lower animal? GASP
By chuck
March 28, 2006 12:13 PM | Link to this
JBM, YOU SAY IT IS WRONG, BUT YOU DO IT ANYWAY. GREAT EXAMPLE FOR YOUR KIDS AND YOUR CONGREGATION.
By GOB
March 28, 2006 12:32 PM | Link to this
Chuck - You have already admitted that you speed, and that you understand it is wrong. What makes that any different than what JBM is doing? Are all sins equal in the eyes of god, or something like that?
By The72John
March 28, 2006 12:38 PM | Link to this
JBM, YOU SAY IT IS WRONG, BUT YOU DO IT ANYWAY. GREAT EXAMPLE FOR YOUR KIDS AND YOUR CONGREGATION.
Right, because Chuck is so very NON-hypocritical, he gets to lecture other people about moral consistency.
Chuck is also probably not aware that assimilation time into the American culture has differed from ethnic group to ethnic group, taking more or fewer generations depending on a variety of factors, including how much in common the two groups share culturally - for instance the Irish assimilated faster than the Italians - or how similar they are in physical appearance.
By Netbanker
March 28, 2006 12:51 PM | Link to this
I may have liberated a candy bar or two from the local mini-mart hehehehe…who knew that candy bars were being held against their will in mini-marts? Viva la revolucion des candy bars!
By Mara
March 28, 2006 01:07 PM | Link to this
Chilao - have I ever told you how much you crack me up?! LOL!
GOB - I’ve got a great deal of respect for your argument regarding the treatment of illegals. They are people, and they do deserve to be treated decently. I just don’t buy the view that illegal immigration is such an intransigent problem that we can’t do anything about it, so we should just shrug and open our borders. Don’t know if that’s actually your view, but that’s kinda what I’m getting from your posts.
Smiles for JBM and her fight against the insidious rhetoric of…chuckie. LOL! (groan, not again!…)
By Whiley
March 28, 2006 01:12 PM | Link to this
Julia, a fetus is not a baby, so I have absolutely no problem with abortion. (it would be nice if every pregnancy could be wanted & planned) It’s not a baby so it’s not killing anything. It’s not murder. Unless you also consider spermicide killing lol. Then I’m a mass murderer. I side on the life of the woman. ALWAYS. The already born woman. ALWAYS. The already born woman’s other kids. ALWAYS. The already born female that doesn’t want to give birth, no matter how the pregnancy happened. ALWAYS. If you want a uterous owned country, live somewhere else. This is America, where women refuse to be treated like 2nd class citizens owned by their husbands & the government.
By Whiley
March 28, 2006 01:16 PM | Link to this
I think everyone that want’s all these “free” govt. services given to illegals should pay for it themselves. I think all the fetus lovers should pay for all the welfare kids themselves.
See how high & mighty big talkers they are then, when THEY are the ones that have to fund it all.
By chuck
March 28, 2006 01:19 PM | Link to this
Mara, your lack of knowledge of the anatomy of a developing baby is astounding for someone who spends so much time advocating for abortion. Arms develop on day 26, legs on day 28 after conception. There is NOT A TAIL at any point during pregnancy (sperm actually have a tail but that is prior to pregnancy). Eyes and ears develop at week 6. The heart is beating and pumping blood between 2 and 3 weeks.
By GOB
March 28, 2006 01:19 PM | Link to this
Mara - After re-reading some of my posts, I can see how the idea of just opening the borders could come across. That is not my view. What I would really like to see put in place are smarter laws. Right now, the laws make it virtually impossible for a poor, uneducated person to immigrate to this country in any reasonable period of time.
I do think we will start to see these laws come into place soon though. Both parties realize what a huge voting block the Hispanic population has potential to be, and will be courting it anyway they can. Their selfish motives might actually translate into some smarter, more reasonable laws, although that might be a bit much to ask of most politicians.
I also think that most US citizens should be a little more appreciative of the life they were born into. What we consider poor, most countries (even most western European ones) would consider either wealthy, or at least middle class.
By kimberly
March 28, 2006 01:21 PM | Link to this
An undocumented immigrant is a POTENTIAL US citizen, not an actual US citizen. Therefore, the US Government gives preferential treatment to the US citizen over the POTENTIAL US citizen.
A fetus is a POTENTIAL citizen, not an actual citizen. When the life and liberty of both are at stake, why shouldn’t a pregnant woman, a ACTUAL citizen, have her right and preference over that of the potential citizen, who is not even a person yet? Why should the actual citizen forego HER rights in favor of a person who doesn’t even exist yet? Why?
Anyone?
By chuck
March 28, 2006 01:27 PM | Link to this
GOB, speeding may or may not be a sin…while it certainly is not mentioned per se in the Bible, it probably is a sin (submit to the authorities that are placed over you for example). When I speed, it is almost always a sin of omission. I look down at the speedometer and notice I am over the limit and slow down.
Thou shalt not bear false witness is one of the BIG 10, and she noted that she knows it is wrong. My challenge to her is to stop committing that sin and do the right thing. Christians are supposed to hold each other accountable. That is one of the reasons that God instituted the church.
By Nikita
March 28, 2006 01:30 PM | Link to this
I have a lot of difficulty sympathizing with the view that an unformed, non-sentient, fully dependent entity which may or may not ever even achieve consciousness takes precedent over a woman who is independent, fully aware, and in the process of living her life. Furthermore, I have trouble relating to people who think that rapists should be able to either rely on the state compelling or compel a woman to bear his child.
Explain, please, Julia.
By Julia
March 28, 2006 01:32 PM | Link to this
it’s not killing anything
Obviously your definition of killing is different from mine. I’ve got this crazy notion that killing means ending a life, stopping the brain waves and the beating heart.
At 8 weeks the unborn:
HEARTBEAT- can be heard on office ultra-sonic stethoscope
HEART- has been beating for one month
EKG- electrocadiogram can be done
BRAIN WAVES- were measurable 2 weeks ago
FEELS PAIN- and responds to touch
SUCKS THUMB
GRASPS- instrument placed in his/her palm
SWIMS- with a natural swimmer’s stroke
DEVELOPMENTAL MILESTONES:
Day one- Conception
One week- Attaches to wall of womb
Two weeks- Stops mother’s menstrual period
Three weeks- Heart is beating
Six weeks- Brain waves measurable/ Moves and responds to touch
8 weeks- can listen to heart
2 1/2 months- body completly formed, even fingerprints
3 months- All organ systems functioning
After three months- nothing new develops/ There is only growth in size and maturity
By kimberly
March 28, 2006 01:32 PM | Link to this
Christians are supposed to hold each other accountable. That is one of the reasons that God instituted the church.
Whaaaa? What happened to “JUDGE NOT, LEST YE BE JUDGED?”
Repent, Chuck. Seriously. You’re embarrassing yourself.
By Randy K.
March 28, 2006 01:32 PM | Link to this
Since the subject is so weak this week. I have a SALUTE. I salute the 167 thousand people who in 2005 lost their lives in foreign countries because they wouldn’t renounce their Christian faith. They have their priorities right. GOD BLESS.
By Zack
March 28, 2006 01:33 PM | Link to this
If you think the FDA is out to protect you, you probably think also that the secular media is out to report the news objectively.
I’m not so much in favor of warning labels in the sense that people should know that sugar plus a sedentary lifestyle equals fat, but I’ve heard from Kevin Trudeau that companies are putting things in food to make you hungry and fat and that the FDA isn’t doing anything about it.
Back to last week’s commentary, I saw a commercial over the weekend about a prostate medicine, and the commercial was done in a slightly-lighthearted way.
WHY?????
It’s because men, for the most part, take it. That’s why. Our culture is teaching young ladies that men don’t deserve equal treatment. It’s not right. (Our culture also devalues the act of being ladylike, by the way.)
To the person who tried to say that a fetus wasn’t a human being because he relied on his mom’s body, that’s simply one of the dumbest statements I’ve ever heard. Life begins at conception, not at childbirth. It is no one’s place to interfere with the life cycle once it begins. As I said, a newborn baby can’t provide for himself, either, and we don’t hear the liberals saying that a newborn baby isn’t a life. They’re inconsistent in their own so-called logic.
Yes, a fetus is a human being, no matter what attempts at rationalizing you hear from the left. No woman owns her baby. Understand and remember that. No one owns another human being. No one. Don’t let some promoter of casual sex without the responsibility of parenthood brainwash you into believing her personal agenda about what she wishes the truth were.
By Jack
March 28, 2006 01:34 PM | Link to this
“while it certainly is not mentioned per se in the Bible, it probably is a sin” HAHAHAHAHAHAHA! and if it feels good, DO IT.
By lozen
March 28, 2006 01:37 PM | Link to this
ha,ha,ha,ha, ha! This is about the funniest thing Chuck’s ever posted on this blog because he describes himself and how he operates to a tee!
I see as usual that poor old 72 cannot have a sane, rational conversation without calling names. Have you ever stopped to consider that people can disagree on subjects? It would be easy to call you an idiot and try to trash you the way that you try to trash me. Face it, you are a pretty easy target. The point is that you don’t have enough common sense to even put forth a rational argument on any topic. Your basic argument is “I’m right, you’re wrong, that’s it.” That may work in your community, but it doesn’t work in the real world where you have to actually back up your position with facts. You cannot refute ANYTHING that I wrote so you call names. How mature you are. Maybe that’s why the democrats can’t seem to win any elections. They (you) have NO IDEAS.
Ha, ha, ha, ha, ha.
By Jack
March 28, 2006 01:39 PM | Link to this
See what you did Julia? That can of worms has spilled all over the place. I knew it wouldn’t be long before Zack and company joined in.
By Zack
March 28, 2006 01:41 PM | Link to this
Chuck—Christians are held accountable to the Holy Spirit, not to each other. We’re supposed to encourage one another, yes, but the idea of being held accountable to each other is a function of the church-growth movement, where sound doctrine is tossed aside in an effort to promote church attendance…and the more people who are holding each other accountable—to them—the better, because that means more attendance and probably more money being given to the church.
Kimberly—You are totally wrong. Please see my last post. A fetus is a human being, and there’s no evidence to refute me. It’s time conservatives stopped being so nice to liberals. It’s time we stood up and unapologetically told the truth regardless of who hates the truth and/or us.
Some cheap woman was on “The O’Reilly Factor” last night and said that most people were pro-choice and that a fetus wasn’t a human being. I say she’s cheap because of what she said. It’s not unprecedented by the left, of course. When you have no substance to defend your thesis statements, lying becomes the easiest option. Obviously, someone who condones Holocaust-like murder in the name of “choice” isn’t afraid to lie, either.
My hostility lies not mainly with them but with those who know better and don’t speak out, because if you don’t speak out, you’re an accessory to the crime.
By Jack
March 28, 2006 01:42 PM | Link to this
Hi Kimberly. Sweet Thing. :)
By Zack
March 28, 2006 01:43 PM | Link to this
Kimberly—“Just not…” is taken out of context. It doesn’t mean we’re supposed to be spectators to evil and say, “I can’t judge.” Not at all.
If you’d like to talk to me more about this, you can write me at clausentowashington@yahoo.com
By The72John
March 28, 2006 01:44 PM | Link to this
but I’ve heard from Kevin Trudeau that companies are putting things in food to make you hungry and fat and that the FDA isn’t doing anything about it.
bahahahaha…Zack thinks that an infomercial actor is a legitmiate source of information. Seriously, this explains a LOT.
*Back to last week’s commentary, I saw a commercial over the weekend about a prostate medicine, and the commercial was done in a slightly-lighthearted way.
WHY?????
It’s because men, for the most part, take it. That’s why. Our culture is teaching young ladies that men don’t deserve equal treatment. It’s not right. (Our culture also devalues the act of being ladylike, by the way.)*
Huh? So…a humorous commercial carries a subversive message that men don’t deserve equal treatment? Irrational, much, Zack?
To the person who tried to say that a fetus wasn’t a human being because he relied on his mom’s body, that’s simply one of the dumbest statements I’ve ever heard. Life begins at conception, not at childbirth. It is no one’s place to interfere with the life cycle once it begins. As I said, a newborn baby can’t provide for himself, either, and we don’t hear the liberals saying that a newborn baby isn’t a life. They’re inconsistent in their own so-called logic.
This is one of the dumbest statements you’ve ever heard? Do you read your own posts? Hello, bad analogies! My name’s Zack! Let’s be friends…
By GOB
March 28, 2006 01:52 PM | Link to this
on the whole judging thing, just an interesting fact. The story in the bible about you who are without sin, cast the first stone didnt appear until the middle ages. The earliest copies do not include this story, but somewhere in the middle ages it appears.
That doesnt really have anything to do with this discussion or the topic, but a couple of posts triggered my mind…
Now back to our regularly scheduled programming…
By kimberly
March 28, 2006 01:55 PM | Link to this
Hey Jack, Mr. Feeeelsgoooood. {;->
Zack, I said the fetus is a potential, not an actual CITIZEN. This IS true. (The argument of when “life” begins is unwinnable by either side, and we will never agree.) But CITIZENSHIP is definable, and a fetus does not have it. THEREFORE, as the LAW applies, the rights of the CITIZEN must take precedence over that of the NON-citizen, when an either/or case exists. BTW, a woman always has a right to say YES to her pregnancy, unless you succeed in saying the woman’s rights don’t matter, in which case the WOMAN is no longer a citizen, and no longer a person, but a f—-ing baby machine. That IS what you want, isn’t it? The thought of that is the only thing that keeps your woman-hating soul going, isn’t it?
By lozen
March 28, 2006 01:59 PM | Link to this
Who in their right mind would want to force a 16 year old who was raped by her father to carry and birth the result of that? Yes, let’s punish her not once but twice. Make her carry the sicko’s baby! Force her to have it! Force her to be reminded of the rape every day as her body balloons, as she throws up with morning sickness. Force her against her will if she doesn’t want to have it. Give her no choice at all. She’s already learned she has no choice in whether she wants to have sex or not so please, let’s show her she has no choice in carrying this pregnancy to term!
By Nikita
March 28, 2006 02:00 PM | Link to this
Julia and Zack, you didn’t actually respond to my post. Please do so, eschewing “because I say so” logic and name-calling. If possible.
By chuck
March 28, 2006 02:00 PM | Link to this
Zack, You need to read Matthew 18:15-18. Then we’ll talk.
By Just Being Me
March 28, 2006 02:05 PM | Link to this
Hey demon, no need to use all caps. I can read just fine. You’re the one that had the trouble reading my post.
As for your asinine remark, the only comment I would say was already said by Gob: Chuck - You have already admitted that you speed, and that you understand it is wrong. What makes that any different than what JBM is doing? Are all sins equal in the eyes of god, or something like that?
No, wait. I know. You don’t speed in front of your children, so that’s different, right?
By kimberly
March 28, 2006 02:08 PM | Link to this
Chuck & Zack, why don’t BOTH you haters read Matthew 23: 27 & 28. These are the verses I think of each & every single time you post.
By chuck
March 28, 2006 02:10 PM | Link to this
Some other verses for you to take a look at Zack.
Matt. 12:36; Rom. 2:16; 14:2; 1 Cor. 3:10-15; 4:5; 2 Cor. 5:10), as well as to key Christians in our life (John 13:34 Gal. 6:1-2; Philip. 2:4; Heb. 10:23-24; James 5:16
Proverbs 11:14, 15:22, 24:6; 27:17; 2 Corinthians 12:19-13:6; Galatians 6: 1-10; Ephesians 5:21; Colossians 3:9-10;
By GOB
March 28, 2006 02:10 PM | Link to this
Uh-oh…Looks like we might have a right-wing bible fight brewing…Cover your head to avoid flying scriptures.
By chuck
March 28, 2006 02:15 PM | Link to this
Nikita, you asked for an answer to your post. The developing baby does NOT take precedence over the mother. It has the SAME rights as the mother (or would in a perfect world). Also, in a perfect world, there would be a REAL penalty for Rape. The most logical one would be PHYSICAL castration.
By Chilao
March 28, 2006 02:16 PM | Link to this
Mara - we all need humor, especially here on W2W. Don’t know about the tail, but know I have a tailbone. I “let”(passed on it myself) my g/f take Anatomy and Physiology in JC, I stuck with the easy sciences, Meteorology and Botany(since I was working in a greenhouse anyway) LOL
mid Tuesday on abortion, is that a record?
By Netbanker
March 28, 2006 02:19 PM | Link to this
It’s time conservatives stopped being so nice to liberals HAHAHAHAHAHAHA…ROFLMAO…hehehehehe..snort..cough, cough, wheeze. OMG…I think I’m going to hurt myself for laughing so hard about that statement! You can’t stop doing something you’ve never done in the first place. (still giggling)
By The72John
March 28, 2006 02:24 PM | Link to this
Looks like we might have a right-wing bible fight brewing
I ROFL’d.
In this corner, weighing in at 250 pounds of sheer fighting dogma, wielding a large wooden beam of pure judgement, it’s….CHUuuuuuck “Get-off-the-cross-someone-needs-the-wood” Beater!
And…in this corner, weighing in at 250 pounds of misogynistic manure, swinging a heavy bible full of archaic ideas, it’s….ZAAAAAccckt “trying-to-get-my-sentence-reduced-by-faking-good-behavior” BANGER!
By Chilao
March 28, 2006 02:25 PM | Link to this
Looks like we might have a right-wing bible fight brewing
and how much are tickets to The Stoning?
Now that is entertainment. You mean, all free, right here? Gotta love the ajc. LOL
By chuck
March 28, 2006 02:26 PM | Link to this
The difference JBM is that I don’t set out to speed and try to justify it to my children. I try not to speed and sometimes through inattention I happen to speed. If they were to notice, I would apologize to them and ask them to help me see to it that I don’t do it again.
What you do is BLATANTLY LIE about your address to gain an advantage over people who RIGHTFULLY live in that district and pay the taxes that produce those good schools. I assume that you understand that is also fraud and theft. You know it is wrong and have NO PLAN to repent and make restitution. I wouldn’t even bring it up, but based on your previous posts to me I know how important your faith is to you and hate to see you harm your relationship with Christ.
By RF
March 28, 2006 02:36 PM | Link to this
We also pay taxes to the state, and who pays more of a local system’s budget?? THE STATE does. My salary is over 90% paid by the state, so if a parent wants to move a child to another district, where’s the harm?? It all comes out of the state budget anyway!
By Netbanker
March 28, 2006 02:37 PM | Link to this
See, GOB, Religion IS dangerous. I’ll just sit here on the sidelines of that one.
I’ll take it that no one in the abortion wars here actually read the story in the link I posted from the woman who was an actual victim of sexual assault? And do you Christian people ever really THINK about what your position does to REAL people like that 16 year old? Have you no imagination to even attempt to understand what she must be feeling? May God have mercy on your souls because there is nothing merciful or compasionate about what you’d have her endure.
Thanks for the compliment ealier RF. I see those same attitudes in many stores where the clerks treat me like sh it because I expect them to actually do their job and help me. When I voiced my displeasure at a McDonald’s over the weekend another customer started to defend them and asked what I knew about it. Sadly for him I did work at a McDonald’s for 2 years as a teen and let him know that I wasn’t just pontificating, but was speaking from experience. On a lighter note…did you have a good weekend? Make it Amsterdam? After a really rough week it was a quiet weekend at home. Besides this coming weekend is going to be very busy…Friday night a neighbor is being ordained so we’re going to the service and celebration after, Saturday is GMAC 25th Anniversary concert, and Sunday my parents arrive for a couple of days on their ‘snowbird’ migration back North.
By Mara
March 28, 2006 02:38 PM | Link to this
Well chuck, Julia - I could sit here and argue about fetal development, but I choose not to. Instead of using the oh-so-persuasive cut-n-paste technique favored by certain individuals whom I shall not name, I will merely provide a link to a layman friendly website that has been kind enough to translate the medical jargon used in the “Medical Encylopedia” at the U.S. Department of Medicine into a “Fetal Development for Dummies” kind of format. Anyone who chooses can pop on over and see who is spinning and who is telling the truth. Here ya go - http://www.ship.edu/~cgboeree/genpsyfetaldev.html
By Julia
March 28, 2006 02:38 PM | Link to this
First of all, I wasn’t the one who opened that can Jack. ;)
Second of all, nit-picking someone over who’s sins are the worst and who’s the “better” Christian is just plain wrong in my opinion.
And last but not least, the unborn baby is NOT a monster, nor is he or she a rapist, nor have they committed any crime. The death penalty seems beyond harsh.
By kimberly
March 28, 2006 02:40 PM | Link to this
The bible verses I offered translate as follows: “You’re HYPCRITES, you make me sick, so SHUT THE F—- UP!”
By Bruce
March 28, 2006 02:40 PM | Link to this
In answer to your question JBM, “that’s wrong - isn’t it?” I would say yes. My children do not attend school in the county where I pay school taxes. I also have to pay tuition in the county they do attend school. You could say I am paying twice but in order to provide the opportunity for a better education I pay that price. Can I afford it, just barely, is it worth it, yes. I would not have the nerve to do what you are doing, but I have thought about it very, very hard a time or two.
By Julia
March 28, 2006 02:42 PM | Link to this
One more thing, Chuck, for you to throw stones at JBM because she’s not perfect is really getting to me. Neither you nor I nor anyone on the face of this earth is perfect or without sin. The only one to accomplish this was Jesus Christ.
I believe Jesus said it best when He said “Let he who is without sin cast the first stone”.
Loving correction is another thing-but that’s NOT what you’re doing.
By Netbanker
March 28, 2006 02:45 PM | Link to this
Also, in a perfect world, there would be a REAL penalty for Rape. The most logical one would be PHYSICAL castration. So much for that turn the other cheek thing, huh? Odd thing this Christianity. So much espousing of violence, forcing of opinions, judging, berating and such for a religion supposedly built on LOVE. With that concept of LOVE you can have it all to yourselves!
By Julia
March 28, 2006 02:45 PM | Link to this
*May God have mercy on your souls because there is nothing merciful or compasionate about what you’d have her endure. *
That’s what I would say about making her go through an abortion and live with that for the rest of her life.
By chuck
March 28, 2006 02:45 PM | Link to this
And in this corner, weighing in at “72” pounds of limp- wristed, pompousity, held to the ground only by the amount of feces bottled up in his anal-retentive, hot air bloated body it’s 72”I-wish I was normal like Chuck”joooooohn”.
By FatMoose
March 28, 2006 02:52 PM | Link to this
Julia,
Been lurking a little today and wanted to commend you on how you handle yourself and your beliefs on here.
By The72John
March 28, 2006 02:55 PM | Link to this
I believe Jesus said it best when He said “Let he who is without sin cast the first stone”.
Chuck doesn’t actually believe this applies to him. Neither does love they neighbor, or judge not, lest you be judged.
Much like the captain in Pirates of the Carribean, chuckie figures that these are really just “guidelines” that don’t apply to him, and are certainly not to be bothered with when doing so might challenge his preconceived notions in any way.
For instance, the ACTUAL translation of “Love thy neighbor”, as it has been divinely revealed to the prophet Chuck, is “Love thy neighbor so long as he is exactly as thee. If thy neighbor not be the same, then thou art free to hate him”.
By Just Being Me
March 28, 2006 02:56 PM | Link to this
When I speed, it is almost always a sin of omission.
Almost doesn’t mean a thing to God. Neither does that omission/comission nonsense that man threw in there to differentiate.
And as for the BIG 10, surely you’re not implying that one of the 10 Commandments bear heavier weight than the commandment to obey the laws of the land?
By Mara
March 28, 2006 02:58 PM | Link to this
Net - I did read the article about the woman who was beaten and raped. It often amazes me that in her case, as well as the 16-year old girls, how far some people would go to impose their opinions onto those who might hold a different view. And how angry and hateful they can get when their opinions are rejected. We know that opinion isn’t necessarily “truth” but some people still insist that what they think is fact…is fact.
I’ve already called the office of my state rep. and begged them to oppose SB 123 and SB 429. Nice folks. Doubt they’ll listen.
By The72John
March 28, 2006 02:59 PM | Link to this
A) Make your own joke, Chuck. Or are you not creative enough to do that?
B) Learn to spell “pomposity”
C) My wrist can kick your wrist’s a* any day of the week.
D) If I were anything like you, I’d do what you should have done years ago, and kill myself.
By chuck
March 28, 2006 03:00 PM | Link to this
NetB, the turn-the-other-cheek philosophy is indeed a good one. That does not mean that the one who hits me in chops won’t suffer natural and/or legal consequences. The perfect example comes in our relationship with our children. When my children are disobedient, we discuss what they did, I tell them what the consequences for the disobedience will be, I forgive them and then enforce those consequences. Are you now saying that there should be no consequences for RAPE?!?!
By chuck
March 28, 2006 03:05 PM | Link to this
Nice avoidance JBM. Doesn’t change the facts.
By Mara
March 28, 2006 03:06 PM | Link to this
Julia - I may be prying here, but what makes you think that having an abortion is anything like being raped? Why do you believe that every woman who’s ever had an abortion is weighted down with guilt, remorse, and black depression?
By The72John
March 28, 2006 03:08 PM | Link to this
Are you now saying that there should be no consequences for RAPE?!?!
Translation of Chuckese: “I am too stupid to understand that Netbanker is making a facetious comment in regards to my espousal of extremely violent measures when I claim to belong to a religion that abhors violence.”
By Julia
March 28, 2006 03:08 PM | Link to this
Thank you FatMoose! I appreciate that.
By chuck
March 28, 2006 03:09 PM | Link to this
Parody From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
In contemporary usage, parody is a form of satire that imitates another work of art in order to ridicule it. It can also be used to poke affectionate fun at the work in question. Parody exists in all art media, including literature, music, and cinema. Cultural movements can also be parodied. Such works are also sometimes colloquially referred to as spoofs.
By Archie
March 28, 2006 03:11 PM | Link to this
“By the way, Schmuck, how many times have YOU exceeded the speed limit? That’s a LAW, isn’t it?”
72John, I used that same reasoning on a conservative friend of mine when he started talking about how precious the law is, and he had no answer because he broke the law all the time by speeding. As a christian myself I must say that many of us don’t really understand what we’re saying. The Bible does say follow the laws of the land but if we did that people like myself(black people) would not have the rights we have today. Clearly, to JBM and Chuck we have to make some decisions about which laws to follow literally. Chuck sounds a little like that conservative christian friend of mine who I had to put in check with some of the things he said. My friend is “off-the-chain” conservative and at times has no rationale to what he says.
By Julia
March 28, 2006 03:12 PM | Link to this
And how angry and hateful they can get when their opinions are rejected.
I don’t think I’ve been either of those things. Do you really think that?
By The72John
March 28, 2006 03:13 PM | Link to this
Your problem is that you just aren’t very good at parody, Chuck. If you had been clever or funny it would have been one thing, but…ya just aren’t.
By chuck
March 28, 2006 03:16 PM | Link to this
ex·ag·ger·ate ( P ) Pronunciation Key (g-zj-rt) v. ex·ag·ger·at·ed, ex·ag·ger·at·ing, ex·ag·ger·ates v. tr. To represent as greater than is actually the case; overstate: exaggerate the size of the enemy force; exaggerated his own role in the episode.
hy·per·bo·le ( P ) Pronunciation Key (h-pûrb-l) n. A figure of speech in which exaggeration is used for emphasis or effect, as in I could sleep for a year or This book weighs a ton.
By Julia
March 28, 2006 03:17 PM | Link to this
what makes you think that having an abortion is anything like being raped? Why do you believe that every woman who’s ever had an abortion is weighted down with guilt, remorse, and black depression?
By listening to women who’ve been there. By hearing the amount of pain they went through. By hearing women compare it to their own rapes. Listening to their first hand experiences.
By FatMoose
March 28, 2006 03:18 PM | Link to this
Mara,
but what makes you think that having an abortion is anything like being raped?
I did not read any correlation bw the two besides her stating that adding another negative action (abortion) to a 16yos experience is doing more damage.
So I put to you: Are you saying that having an abortion is an uplifting and positive action in ones life?
By Just Being Me
March 28, 2006 03:18 PM | Link to this
The difference JBM is that I don’t set out to speed and try to justify it to my children.
You really can’t read, huh? Never did I say that I do any wrong and then “justify it to my child.” That’s just ridiculous. In fact, I never tried to justify anything. For a split second, I was on the same side of the argument as you are. I stated, indirectly, that if it’s wrong for me to register my child in another school district because I want a better life for her - which it is - then it must also be wrong for immigrants to come here illegally, even if they are seeking a better life for their children. Instead of taking the point, you decide that this is a great opportunity to point fingers.
Heck, if anybody’s going to talk about justifying, it sure as heck shouldn’t be you. You justify every wrong you do. You call names and justify it (whereas I admit fault and apologize). You judge and justify. You berate and ridicule and justify it. You point fingers and throw stones and justify it. You drive above the speed limit (by omission, of course) and justify it. Whatever wrong you do is okay because the Bible says xyz. Or it’s okay because it’s not as bad as what JBM did. Or it’s okay because it’s a sin of omission not one of commission. Everything you do is justified with one scripture or another.
You’re just the perfect christian.
By FatMoose
March 28, 2006 03:21 PM | Link to this
And how angry and hateful they can get when their opinions are rejected.
I don’t think I’ve been either of those things. Do you really think that?
I was going to back you on this as well - the above is one heck of a general statement that reflects on everyone on here today but you and NetB.
By Randy K.
March 28, 2006 03:21 PM | Link to this
When do you know you have lost the debate or discussion. When you start calling the other person names(like John72 does). Such a weak character.
By RF
March 28, 2006 03:22 PM | Link to this
Net- Christianity just sounds LOVELY, doesn’t it?? Julia’s the only one who seems remotely happy with it!
I didn’t get “to town” over the weekend. Had a very, very busy week (on top of everything else, I started an online Master’s program a few weeks ago). I ended up hanging out Saturday night with some old friends I don’t see very often. Just didn’t have the energy to dress and be out and about. Starting spring with a campout this weekend and then it’s spring break for me next week!! YAY!!
By Just Being Me
March 28, 2006 03:26 PM | Link to this
Clearly, to JBM and Chuck we have to make some decisions about which laws to follow literally.
Actually, Archie, I believe that all laws of the land are to be followed literally. I don’t agree with all the laws, but I think we should follow them regardless.
If I had no money to feed my child, and she was at risk of starving to death, and all the agencies that provide food were closed (or otherwise inaccessible), I might steal food or use some sort of trickery to get food for her.
It would be just as wrong as stealing a fur coat or a bottle of perfume, and I would be subject to punishment, and I would deserve that punishment.
Just wanted to make it clear that I don’t think we should pick and choose which laws to follow or under which circumstances we should follow them.
The striking difference between satan (chuck) and I, is that he’s perfect and I’m not.
By chuck
March 28, 2006 03:28 PM | Link to this
So I assume you are going down tomorrow to pay tuition to that school district and give them your proper address?
By RF
March 28, 2006 03:35 PM | Link to this
Not to justify JBM’s choices, but I have no doubt I’d do the same thing if I felt there were no other option. I think it’s easy to judge someone’s actions until we find ourselves in similar situations. I can at least say I’d do the same because I KNOW I would for my children’s sake. Seems simple to me. Doesn’t make it right, but who among us would deny our children, even if it meant breaking a rule?
By Julia
March 28, 2006 03:37 PM | Link to this
RF & Net-don’t judge the tree because of a few bad apples that fall off. When you go to the store and buy a bag of apples and get home and see that there’s a worm hole in one do you stop eating/buying apples forever? Do you say that “all apples are bad”? No, of course not.
(I hope you understand what I’m trying to say.)
By chuck
March 28, 2006 03:39 PM | Link to this
I didn’t say it was okay to speed, btw. The Bible does teach that in all matters, God looks on the heart. I can’t believe that you are EQUATING an accidental lead foot, with an intentional lie, but that’s something you will have to live with.
I have to admit that having an opportunity to take a little dig at you was the motivation there, when it should have been accountability. After somebody calls you Satan 30 or 40 times you kind of don’t really care how they feel about things. So I guess that was an intentional sin to that I will have to repent of. And yes, it’s just as bad as your lie.
By Mara
March 28, 2006 03:44 PM | Link to this
FM - it may not be an uplifting experience but if you do it early enough it certainly is no worse that getting your annual exam.
Perhaps it’s because I don’t frequent anti-abortion groups and websites that I don’t see the huge amount of angst Julia implies is part and parcel of the abortion procedure. I’ve met just as many women who feel nothing but unabashed relief (the only real guilt they felt was for not feeling as guilty as they were told they would…) as I have those who do feel guilt and depression.
By Mara
March 28, 2006 03:55 PM | Link to this
WOW! Chuck, do you mean that God will be the one judging, not you or Zack or Pat Robertson?! Do you honestly mean that GOD will judge the quality of the person and their soul, NOT the religious right? That GOD will be able to tell the good folk from the bad folk?
Is that why y’all are so angy at the homosexuals, feminists, and libruls? LOL! Just pokin’ ya with a sharp stick, chuck. Just killing time til quittin’ time.
By Archie
March 28, 2006 03:55 PM | Link to this
JBM I don’t believe in following all the laws literally. I do speed sometimes and yes I deserve a ticket. There are certain laws on the books that don’t make sense based on how people are living at this time. Laws of the land are not perfect which is why some laws are taken off the books. I follow the speed limit most of the time and I haven’t got a speeding ticket in almost 20 years but sometimes I speed no doubt about it. I think people break certain laws all the time and that’s why I said as christians we don’t always understand what we’re saying. I wish you,JBM and Chuck, well, but I know y’all are going to disagree just as I disagree with my conservative friend. I can tell you right now JBM you would love Chuck compared to my friend. Also let’s remember Jesus healed people on the Sabbath which was against the law at the time.
By Just Being Me
March 28, 2006 03:56 PM | Link to this
Clearly, to JBM and Chuck we have to make some decisions about which laws to follow literally.
Actually, Archie, I believe that all laws of the land are to be followed literally. I don’t agree with all the laws, but I think we should follow them regardless.
If I had no money to feed my child, and she was at risk of starving to death, and all the agencies that provide food were closed (or otherwise inaccessible), I might steal food or use some sort of trickery to get food for her.
It would be just as wrong as stealing a fur coat or a bottle of perfume, and I would be subject to punishment, and I would deserve that punishment.
Just wanted to make it clear that I don’t think we should pick and choose which laws to follow or under which circumstances we should follow them.
The striking difference between satan (chuck) and I, is that he’s perfect and I’m not.
By RF
March 28, 2006 03:57 PM | Link to this
So if I accidentally drive too fast, because I didn’t intentionally speed, it isn’t as wrong as intentionally telling a lie. Interesting thought, but I haven’t read that sin is judged by intent. We’re splitting hairs there that just aren’t meant to be split. Sin is sin, right?
Julia- I don’t throw away the apples, but it’s hard to keep buying them after you’ve gotten a mouth full of worm-kinda leaves a bad taste for a while. I love God, I’m just not so sure about some of the worms he’s got in the apples down here, you know? LOL
By FatMoose
March 28, 2006 03:58 PM | Link to this
Perhaps it’s because I don’t frequent anti-abortion groups and websites that I don’t see the huge amount of angst Julia implies is part and parcel of the abortion procedure. I’ve met just as many women who feel nothing but unabashed relief (the only real guilt they felt was for not feeling as guilty as they were told they would…) as I have those who do feel guilt and depression.
Well, I have seen all the patients that my dad had (psychiatrist) who had abortions, and they experienced long term trauma.
I have never herad of ANYONE comparing it to a pap smear. That sounds pretty exagerated…
Minus the fanatics, wear an “I chose abortion” t-shirt for a month to your normal functions/friends and such places - even those that believe in choice will look down on you.
Abortion, at the least, is the concept of “lesser of two evils,” but whether it actually IS the lesser, I am unsure. But the more I hear the reasons avocated by you pro-choicers, the less I find myself in that camp.
By Netbanker
March 28, 2006 04:04 PM | Link to this
Wait! That would be the AGMC concert, not GMAC.
By Just Being Me
March 28, 2006 04:07 PM | Link to this
I didn’t just start calling you satan out of the clear blue. One day, I believe it was the day that many of us were having an exciting debate on what could have been a heated subject. If I recall correctly, there were two clear sides. No one was calling names. No one was ridiculing anyone’s ideas, however opposed to those ideas they may have been. No one was offending, berating, or putting anyone down. We were just disagreeing in an educated, mature, collected fashion.
Then came you. Within moments, you disrupted the entire discussion, wreaking havoc and causing mayhem.
Instantaneously, it hit me. (No sarcasm, here, I’m serious). You were here, in my opinion, to sow seeds of discord. To create confusion. To hurt people. To throw stones. To disrupt, to destroy the calm, steal the peace, and kill the spirit of the discussion.
That is the same mission that satan has, and anyone who does those things repeatedly, anyone who takes pleasure in taking jabs, anyone whose mission is to upset peace is, in my opinion, is in cohorts with the devil.
And, to answer your question, no. I am not going to the school tomorrow to tell them my “real” address. To do that would be a direct threat to my child’s education and mental health. Is that wrong of me? Of course it is. Here’s a stone for you. When you reach perfection, please feel free to toss it.
By Netbanker
March 28, 2006 04:15 PM | Link to this
Julia…no one would MAKE her get the abortion, but my issue with the pro-life crowd is that they would completely remove this as an option. YOU would FORCE her to live with this reminder of the brutality and sexual violence that her own father perpetrated against her. YOU are the one forcing her to relive that horror every single day…you really believe that would be better for her as a human and less harsh psychologically than to terminate the pregnancy? Aborting won’t change what happened to her, but it could certainly help her health more quickly.
By Chilao
March 28, 2006 04:20 PM | Link to this
While we are on the subect of how righteous The Law is, can I point out that everything done in Nazi Germany was 100-percent legal under German law, and then most recently, that The Law in Afghanistan related to the guy who converted to Christianity, another example of The Law.
Just something I always like to point out when concepts like The Law are being discussed. LOL
By RF
March 28, 2006 04:20 PM | Link to this
Net- what concert is AGMC? My brain is on overload today, so acronyms aren’t translating!!
By Julia
March 28, 2006 04:20 PM | Link to this
I love God, I’m just not so sure about some of the worms he’s got in the apples down here, you know? LOL
RF-It’s ok, I understand. But as long as the devil tries to break apart the church there will always be worms somewhere in various apples. The trick is to see the worm for what it is-apart from the apple. ;)
By Just Being Me
March 28, 2006 04:25 PM | Link to this
Thanks, RF. You and I both know that I’m doing the wrong thing. But, I’m glad you understand where I’m coming from.
For those of you that may not (except satan), when I gained custody of my daughter, she was in 7th grade, and read on a 3rd grade level. The only mathematical functions she could complete were addition, multiplication, and subtraction (and she had trouble with subtraction). She couldn’t divide. She couldn’t do anything with a fraction. She wasn’t familiar with decimal points, geometry, basic algebraic functions, or complex word problems. She was on her way to becoming functionally illiterate.
She had been raised in an environment where staying home to watch her siblings was far more important than going to school, and in a school district where passing the poor, black kids along was far more important than actually teaching them. Her teachers, obviously, had no parental support and probably felt that if the parents didn’t care, neither did they. She was passed from grade to grade, never mastering any concepts taught.
I enrolled her immediately in two different learning centers (one was on weekends) to bring her up to grade level, and in less than a year, she was on grade level in math according to three different tests.
She still struggles, especially in math. She does not like to work hard, and will spend as little time on homework as she can get away with. She has a difficult time concentrating, and gets very frustrated when she can’t grasp a concept. What’s worse is that she wasn’t raised to believe that education is important, so she has a hard time putting her all into it.
What can be worse than that? Try sending a child like that to an APS school that is 96% black (as all but one of the high schools are) and mostly low-income. My child is in an environment where teachers don’t expect her to do well, and where students take education for a joke. Heck, with all this standardized testing, many of the teachers take it for a joke too. The students are below grade level, so she feels that this is acceptable. They fight everyday, sometimes a gun is found in a locker. The girls have two and three children, and it’s no big deal.
Meanwhile, I’m at home telling her that this is NOT the norm, yet this is all she’s ever seen.
What could be worse? One day, she comes home with a note saying that she failed Algebra I, and failed the EOCT miserably. I wasn’t surprised, since she had already failed every unit test in Algebra I. She had barely passed Language Arts with a D, and was still writing on 5th grade level (but, she doesn’t believe she needs help with her writing because she “write just like everybody else in my class”). What did surprise me was when she came home with a new Algebra II book. Yes. She failed Algebra I, and was placed in Algebra II.
She received glowing comments from her LA teacher, despite the fact that her writing was horrible, and she just barely passed.
I have seen it all with APS:
spelling lists with misspelled words. letters to the parents with grammatical errors. failing children (including my own) sent to the next grade. my 8th grader receiving an A on an essay that looks like a 3rd grader wrote it.
And, I am tired of it. Furthermore, I don’t have the time to wait on APS to work out the kinks. I don’t have time to wait on a new superintendent who may or may not make a difference. I don’t have time to wait for a new HS principal who will put a stop to “passing” students who deserve to stay behind. I don’t have the time to risk my child’s one chance at an education.
Does any of this justify my fraudulently enrolling her in a better school just next door where she’ll get a decent education? Nope.
If I had it to do over again, would I do the same thing? Yep.
Here’s a stone. Feel free to toss it. I’ll take a stone for my child.
By RF
March 28, 2006 04:30 PM | Link to this
Julia- persistent one, aren’t ya? LOL I’ve been slack about finding a church. I guess I got discouraged after the last few I tried that were close to home turned out to be a bad fit. I just can’t bring myself to drive across town for church. I’m too small town I suppose—if it ain’t here, I don’t need it! LOL
By Whiley
March 28, 2006 04:35 PM | Link to this
I don’t care what the fetus lovers say, a fetus is not a baby, the woman decides who/what/when/where they create a baby. That’s much to much power for a woman to have, the fetus lovers hate that. Controlling women is what it’s all about, not saving “babies”.
If the fetus lovers REALLY cared about babies, they’d all have 10 adopted already born thrown away kids right now. They don’t. PROOF the fetus lovers are nutjobs. What nutjobs say doesn’t matter for S@#$@#. Now if they try to force their nutjob views on the rest of us, then we have a problem.
NONE OF YOU FETUS LOVERS care about REAL LIVE BORN BABIES!
What a joke the fetus lovers are.
(OK why am I getting into this debate again? lol) In the near future all fetus lovers in government will BE GONE. Till then we still have to listen to their stupid crap. lol
By Julia
March 28, 2006 04:36 PM | Link to this
YOU are the one forcing her to relive that horror every single day
Net-We’re only talking about carrying the baby for nine months and then the baby can be adopted. And yes, it’s a better alternative then a lifetime of knowing that you’d had your own child’s life ended. It’s always better to give life than to take life. (In my opinion anyway.)
By RF
March 28, 2006 04:36 PM | Link to this
JBM- here’s a stick. When the stones start flying, just hit a few homeruns!! LOL
I left a school system I had worked in for years to go work in another so my boys could have a better chance. Would I do it again? YEP, and if our middle school doesn’t get it together next year, I’ll be changing again. You do what you have to for your kids.
By Just Being Me
March 28, 2006 04:37 PM | Link to this
An abortion with no complications (all the way up to 24 weeks) can indeed be just as easy for a woman as having a pap smear, if not easier (with the help of anesthesia).
That is NOT an exaggeration.
By Jack
March 28, 2006 04:38 PM | Link to this
We can’t throw at you JBM. We are not without.
By Just Being Me
March 28, 2006 04:38 PM | Link to this
An abortion with no complications (all the way up to 24 weeks) can indeed be just as easy for a woman as having a pap smear, if not easier (with the help of anesthesia).
That is NOT an exaggeration.
By Just Being Me
March 28, 2006 04:42 PM | Link to this
One other thing. It’s pretty safe to assume that a woman who has an abortion and goes to see a psychiatrist, is having a hard time dealing with that abortion. Therefore, if you hang around a psychiatrist’s office, you’re not likely to find too many women who had abortions and are relieved, experiencing no guilt or other negative feelings.
The ones who feel good about their decision probably aren’t at a psych’s office discussing it.
By Jack
March 28, 2006 04:46 PM | Link to this
JBM. Stop defending yourself. No need.
By Julia
March 28, 2006 04:49 PM | Link to this
I just can’t bring myself to drive across town for church.
RF-come on, look what Christ endured for YOU! :)
I hope you keep looking. But even if you don’t-you know the act of going to church isn’t what saves you, it’s a personal relationship with Christ (one-on-one). (I’m sure you know that though.)
Just Being Me-I understand what you did and I think you did what you had to do to get your child the best education. I certainly wouldn’t fault you for that. I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again-you sound like a really great mother!
By Netbanker
March 28, 2006 04:51 PM | Link to this
Julia…I do understand completely what you were saying about apples and worms. (To digress for a moment just because that is the stream of consciousness way my mind works sometime…What is it about apples anyway? Eve gave Adam ‘The apple’, comparisons to bad apples, ‘how do you like them apples?’ The other fruits must be feeling very left out)
I grew up Lutheran Missouri Synod and Catholic in a family of strong religious faith. The one lesson that I really have taken to heart is that every person’s relationship with God is a personal one. For me that makes it easier to keep my nose out of other people’s relationship with God although it also means that when I do run into those who won’t/don’t I just can’t help but point out that it isn’t up to them to judge or pontificate.
I no longer follow an organized religion because I see so much harm, hate, vitriol, and misunderstanding. I know this isn’t true of most churches. I’m sure my own perspective has been greatly influenced by being born gay and hearing the message of the church about how horrible I supposedly am even as I was praised by my church family for being kind, helpful, caring, understanding, reliable. It’s hard to reconcile how one tiny facet of who you are and over which you have no active control can suddenly negate you in the eyes of the church.
RF…sounds like you had a nice weekend. Some of the best times are hanging with long time (I’m learning not to use OLD because it’s starting to become a statement on age) friends, especially the ones you don’t see often, but when you’re together it seems like it was yesterday.
Pack warm for the camping unless the weather is going to change. I think it’s about time we dusted off our tent for a camping trip. We haven’t been for a couple of years and it’s something I grew up doing and really enjoy for a weekend. For some reason that admission seems to surprise many people I know. I thought the look on my friends’ faces at my birthday about 6 years ago was priceless when the big box from my partner turned out to be a tent. Then it went to a whole new level when they realized that I wasn’t faking my excitement just to be nice. For most of them Holiday Inn IS roughing it.
By Julia
March 28, 2006 04:52 PM | Link to this
Hi Whiley!!! :)
I hope you’re having a great day.
By Julia
March 28, 2006 04:53 PM | Link to this
Does that mean the opposite of what you call a “fetus lover” is a “fetus hater”??? Just wondering.
By Whiley
March 28, 2006 04:53 PM | Link to this
Julia, there’s more to giving birth than a little cramp you fetus lover, female hater.
Women ARE RELIEVED after an abortion. How many of these “abortion scarred” women are religious nutjobs? are in religious nutjob families that pour on the guilt?
I love how the fetus lovers don’t give a flying flip about how women suffer because of being pregnant, like it’s no big deal walk in the park what are you complaining for? Like all women just love it. Oh me oh my pregnancy is so lovely.
Can you tell i’m a little irritated today? There’s some freaky woman hating people out there. REALLY p** me off.
By RF
March 28, 2006 04:55 PM | Link to this
dangit, Julia, you’re just as good as my mother! She could shoot down any argument I came up with!!LOL Boy, your son isn’t going to get away with a thing, is he??
Toodles, folks!
By Just Being Me
March 28, 2006 04:56 PM | Link to this
Thanks, Julia. I appreciate that. And thanks, Jack.
RF, isn’t it amazing what you’ll do for your child?
By Julia
March 28, 2006 04:57 PM | Link to this
An abortion with no complications (all the way up to 24 weeks) can indeed be just as easy for a woman as having a pap smear, if not easier (with the help of anesthesia).
Sure, if you’re knocked out/put to sleep verses being awake while he’s pulling out body parts one at a time. (Called the D&E method.) I forgot about the possibility of being knocked out for the procedure. Sorry.
By Whiley
March 28, 2006 04:58 PM | Link to this
Julia I was having a great day till the fetus lovers started chanting their fetus loving, woman hating crap.
Then the church/cult people started up again.
By Monica
March 28, 2006 04:59 PM | Link to this
Mara, I can’t answer your question posed this moring without making the folowing statement: I’m either a monster or a hypocrit. I could say that the girl should carry the baby to term and then put it up for adoption, and I am a monster for making anyone go through that.
Or, I can say that in the cases of rape, abortion is okay, and I’m a hypocrit. If my argument against abortion is that I view it as taking a life, then it’s taking a life regardless of the circumstances of conception. So, I’m in a lose, lose situation.
Julia, great job today!
I too, am a “happy Christian.” I can’t remember who posed that question earlier.
Okay, have to run as my son is telling me that the dog is eating something he shouldn’t… be back tomorrow!
By Julia
March 28, 2006 05:01 PM | Link to this
Net-I’m sorry for your bad experiences. I wish I could give you a big hug right now.
By kimberly
March 28, 2006 05:04 PM | Link to this
Whiley, yes, I too find it hard to believe these people when they try to say they’re NOT women-haters (and gay haters and not-my-religion haters.) They claim the love of God, but I don’t see it, I don’t feel it, and I’m not buying it. As a woman, I see, and have experienced an awful lot of woman-hate in many forms. Anyone who says the potential person’s rights completely negate those of the woman, IS A WOMAN HATER. Period. Chuck, Zack, and the rest…. perhaps their mothers refused to suckle them… I don’t know. But I know a woman hater when I hear his or her self-righteous ramblings, that’s for sure!
By Whiley
March 28, 2006 05:04 PM | Link to this
Monica, you aren’t a monster or a hypocrite if you let the girl decide herself.
Monica, you aren’t a monster or a hypocrite if you don’t choose abortion for yourself.(or change your mind & do)
The point is, each women decides herself. What is so darn awful about that?
By Netbanker
March 28, 2006 05:07 PM | Link to this
RF - That’s Atlanta Gay Mens Chorus. Which is definitely not to be confused with GMAC (General Motors Acceptance Corporation). Happy Spring Breaking next week! I’ll working away and feeling just a tad jealous of your well deserved time off. Please feel free to remind me of all hard parts of your job and why you should have a spring break.
FM - while I understand your perspective from seeing your Dad’s patients you wouldn’t see all the women who didn’t need counseling so that experience would seem to skew your impression of the psychological effects. I agree with you that in many cases the abortion is the lesser of evils. Since I’m not a woman nor heterosexual an unintended pregnancy isn’t an issue I’ll ever have to deal with any more personally than having listened to friends who were facing that very decision. Of the 3 women I know for sure who have had abortions they all have looked back with regret (especially my best friend who at 37 recently had a hysterectomy for medical reasons), but all 3 have also said that at that time it was the right decision. None of them have been incapacitated or needed counseling over having had the procedure.
By Nikita
March 28, 2006 05:15 PM | Link to this
Allrighty, then. On the recent comments on abortion:
Chuck, the rights of the fetus are not equal to those of the woman when the woman is legally required to supply her body to grow it to full-term and make arrangements for its long-term care. They are superior. Keep in mind as well that any such plans require legal consideration of the father, who could after all be the woman’s father or blood relative or rapist.
Julia & co, you’re missing a few very important distinctions. No one is making anyone obtain an abortion — those who do have made a decision which they need to consider the ramifications of. So rape is not analagous.
Furthermore, guilt is a logical feeling if abortion goes against your beliefs, if you feel you cannot have a child because you are unable to provide for one, or if you have been relentless hounded, lied to, and harassed for making the decision to put your needs ahead of a fetus which you had no intention of conceiving.
And finally, “Victims and Victors” is an activist work, correct? Its goal is to support your thesis. So, naturally, it’s not going to represent women of the other ilk. At the same time, I have known a number of women who have had abortions and they all felt it was the best decision.
By online directory main
March 29, 2006 04:10 AM | Link to this
hello! http://www.dirare.com/Sweden/ online directory. About DIRare, Search in Business Category, Yellowpages search. From online directory .
By candide
March 29, 2006 07:01 AM | Link to this
THE MOST URGENT WARNING LABEL
By CANDIDE
March 29, 2006 07:02 AM | Link to this
THE MOST URGENTLY NEEDED WARNING LABEL:
On the cover of every Bible for sale: warning! reading the Bible can destroy the brain and encourage irrational behavior.
By Bruce
March 29, 2006 08:16 AM | Link to this
JBM, Who can fault a parent for wanting the best for their children? Don’t give up God will provide a way. You and your child are in my prayers.
By Whiley
March 29, 2006 08:43 AM | Link to this
“If you give a man a fish, he eats for a day. If you give a man religion, he starves to death praying for a fish.”
By Julia
March 29, 2006 08:56 AM | Link to this
“If you give a man a fish, he eats for a day. If you give a man religion, he starves to death praying for a fish.”
I guess this would be true if you were praying to a God that did not exist.
I know my God is a living God because He DOES answer prayer and perform miracles.
By Whiley
March 29, 2006 09:10 AM | Link to this
I’m sorry Julia, you’ve been fed a big load of crap. Religion is the biggest scam of them all. But if it MAKES you feel better, that’s fine.
Just don’t try to make laws based on fairy tales.
By Archie
March 29, 2006 09:11 AM | Link to this
Since the blog discussion was about speeding and sin yesterday,well here in South Carolina we have a lieutenant governor that was doing 101 miles/hour and he was not given a ticket or a warning. Andre Bauer,lieutenant governor of South Carolina also was clocked going 77 miles per hour in a 65 mile/hr zone. In my opinion people here are picking and choosing which law to follow and enforce. There was a clear violation of the law and yet the man was sent on his way. It’s front page news here. It seems there’s always an exception made for certain people and it’s just aggravating to me. Mr. Bauer lied about it when asked initially by the press but when the video tape surfaced he said he had forgotten about those incidents. He used the term “lead foot” in describing himself. My point is he is justifying breaking a law that’t not convenient but maybe he doesn’t deserve Hades. Also my point is laws need to be examined and this is where I side with the atheists,laws should not be based on the Bible because as christians we don’t do a good job.
By GOB
March 29, 2006 09:22 AM | Link to this
Whiley - While I may agree with some of the things you put on this blog, I must say that the manner in which you attempt to make your points comes across as hostile and totally negates any point you were trying to make.
With a few exceptions, most people on this blog are respectful of each other, so I dont think a more civil discourse would be too much to ask.
By Renee
March 29, 2006 09:23 AM | Link to this
Laws should NOT be based on religion. Religion is very subjective and diverse in this country, so how do you pick which one to use for laws?
Laws should be made and based upon a person’s life, property, safety and freedom. So basically if it doesn’t affect someone’s life, property, safety or personal freedom, it shouldn’t be against the law. IMO
By Chilao
March 29, 2006 09:25 AM | Link to this
In Alabama, legislators are legally exempt from speeding laws since they might be rushing to and from Montgomery. If a state trooper pulls one over, all they have to do is show their legislature identification.
I dated a State Prosecutor for two years in another state, if she got pulled over, she just showed her driver’s license, and opposite that was her State AG Office ID. She ALWAYS got “thank you, ma’am, that’s all”, (no ticket).
By Renee
March 29, 2006 09:32 AM | Link to this
Good comment GOB!
By Chilao
March 29, 2006 09:32 AM | Link to this
I firmly believe guilt is self-created. So if you believe abortion is wrong(for whatever reasons), and then have one, it stands to reason you may need therapy later. DUH. Anyone I have known who had one, was not in therapy as a result, and several look back at it as the best decision they could have made.
Needless to say, I have never had one. LOL
By Whiley
March 29, 2006 09:44 AM | Link to this
GOB I’m sorry, remember I type aggressively. I speak better in person, & much softer. When I type I don’t use proper English either. lol My spelling is usually good, well, only because of spell checker.
By Julia
March 29, 2006 09:57 AM | Link to this
I’m sorry Julia, you’ve been fed a big load of crap. Religion is the biggest scam of them all. But if it MAKES you feel better, that’s fine.Just don’t try to make laws based on fairy tales.
Whiley, I’m sorry you’ve never experienced anything spiritual and do not know God or Jesus. But just because you do not know them does not mean that I don’t either.
And for something to be a “scam” doesn’t someone have to benefit from the scam and someone else has to be deceived into giving something? What’s the scam then? You don’t HAVE TO tithe or pay any money. (Phoney baloney TV “evangelists” who want money money money do NOT count nor do they represent the Christian community.)
And lastly, what laws am I trying to make based on religion? I don’t recall ever bringing religion into law discussions before.
Fairy tales are made up stories that never come true. My God and Savior are alive and well and answer prayer. The bible is the original world history book. The archaelogical (sp?) evidence supports the bible completely.
If you choose not to believe that’s your choice but you can’t tell me who I know and who I don’t know. You aren’t equipped with that knowledge.
I respect your right to your opinions (all of them)- I only ask that you respect my right to mine. (And I promise no one’s going to ever drag you to church kicking and screaming.)
By Jack
March 29, 2006 09:58 AM | Link to this
Abortion is basically a religious arguement You cannot change any one’s mind which ever side they are on. Can we discuss something else. Pulllleeeeessse!
By Chilao
March 29, 2006 09:58 AM | Link to this
spell checker: I no the sky is blew.
actually there is a long poem showing all the things that passed spellchecker and it grossly mispelled, for the intended word at least.
doe ewe tango?
By Chilao
March 29, 2006 09:59 AM | Link to this
or was that: due ewe tango?
By Julia
March 29, 2006 10:01 AM | Link to this
Yes, GOB, very well said.
By GOB
March 29, 2006 10:06 AM | Link to this
The bible is the original world history book. The archaelogical (sp?) evidence supports the bible completely.
Julia - When you say this, do you mean that the archeological evidence supports the old testament (genesis included) as an accurate history, or are you talking more about new testament places and churches?
By Archie
March 29, 2006 10:06 AM | Link to this
Chilao thanks for response. Chilao or anyone, I ask is it safe as Renee says for someone to be driving a 101 mph on a highway? If laws are designed for safety why should certain people have these privileges when they themselves wrote the laws or are going to prosecute someone else for violating the law. How important can the law be when we have all these exceptions? If I can pay a 100 dollar fine then Mr or Miss Important can pay that same fine.
By Mara
March 29, 2006 10:07 AM | Link to this
or perhaps “dew yew tango”?
By Julia
March 29, 2006 10:10 AM | Link to this
Although I disagree that abortion is a “religious” discussion I certainly agree with Jack in that we need a new topic.
By Jack
March 29, 2006 10:15 AM | Link to this
Julia you did a good job yesterday. You intentionally stepped in it knowing what would happen and argued your points quite eloquently.
By Julia
March 29, 2006 10:18 AM | Link to this
GOB-I was referring to archaeological evidence found throughout the Middle East that refer to people and places in both the Old & New Testaments.
I don’t have the specifics in front of me but will try to see what I can come up with for you if you like.
By Renee
March 29, 2006 10:32 AM | Link to this
Maybe I was misinterpreted, or I misstated my point. It is not safe for anyone to drive 101 mph. Not unless they are on their own privately owned road, where nobody else travels, and they don’t put my life, or anyone elses in jeopardy.
By GOB
March 29, 2006 10:33 AM | Link to this
Julia - The reason I was asking is because i don’t think you can use archeological evidence to support something that is purely spiritual. I view much of the “scientific” support of religion to be so partisan that it cant be taken seriously.
It is essentially the same as me saying that because i can go to Greece and see Mount Olympus, it somehow validates Greek Mythology.
By Mara
March 29, 2006 10:34 AM | Link to this
Nice discussion on immigration reform yesterday. Today the press is touting a supposedly “balanced” reform bill. Republican Arlen Specter, a couple of his buds, and all the Democrats on the Senate Judiciary Committee have endorsed this proposal for a “comprehensive” package that includes possible citizenship:
“The path to citizenship laid out by the Specter bill wouldn’t be easy. It would take 11 years, a clean record, a steady job, payment of a $2,000 fine and back taxes, and knowledge of English and civics. It would nearly double the number of Border Patrol agents, add resources for detaining illegal immigrants and deporting them more quickly, and expand state and local enforcement of immigration laws. It would create a system to verify workers’ identities and impose tougher punishments on employers who defied it.”
Sounds reasonable, doesn’t it? Now, does anyone remember way back in the ‘80’s when Reagan gave amnesty to 7-8 million illegal aliens? Remember what was promised then? Increased border security, tougher action against those hiring illegals, citizenship requirements including fines, clean legal record, employment, etc etc. All the items contained in Specters bill are pretty much the same points from Reagans. What’s that adage that Dubya mangled so badly? Oh, yeah. “Fool me once, shame on — shame on you. Fool me — you can’t get fooled again.” ? Personally, I’ll believe the enforcement part when I see it. Until then, despite the hype, I’m looking at this as just another Republican amnesty.
By Bruce
March 29, 2006 10:36 AM | Link to this
Archie, I know what you mean, I travel to Atlanta from time to time and have seen on almost every occasion State Patrol go around me. I am driving 70 to 75 mph and they pass me like I am sitting still. No lights, no siren. I asked a friend of my about it one time and he told me they were going to training class in Forsyth and didn’t want to be late.
Another pet peeve of mine is car insurance. State requires you to have it but will not regulate how much you can be charged for it. I sometimes wonder how many lawmakers that signed that bill had interest in insurance companies.
By Julia
March 29, 2006 10:43 AM | Link to this
Thank you Jack (and Monica).
Jack-you’re always a gentleman.
By Netbanker
March 29, 2006 10:49 AM | Link to this
Julia…thanks for the sentiment yesterday, but I wouldn’t call my exerience bad. It was just eye-opening to the darker side of organized religion and human nature. So long as you’re viewed as part of the group all is well. The primary thing that drove me away from organized religion is the message of homosexuality as a sin. This is a pronouncement from people who have never walked a mile in a gay person’s shoes. They’ve decided that sexual orientation is an active choice made by gay people even though they never thought about their own sexual orientation and attractions. Gay people are in a unique position since our wiring isn’t the accepted norm We are stuck growing up without role models of lasting relationships, to grow up without role models period for most of us, to consider long and hard what it means to not be able meet the accepted norm without lying, to really consider the potential affects of being honest which can mean being excommunicated from one’s religious family, biological family, affect on employment, affect on purchasing a home, inability to provide health care, inability to guarantee access to the hospital, etc. While it hasn’t been proved scientifically yet that sexual orientation is genetic or biological I have yet to meet a single gay person who hasn’t ALWAYS had same sex attractions and ALWAYS admitted that even when living as a heterosexual they knew they were living a lie.
To be accepted by the church we are required to either live a lie or to deny ourselves the love and support of a relationship because of some idiotic idea that it’s not a sin to BE gay just to have a same gender relationship and sex. In a religion whose central tennet is supposed to be LOVE we are vilified because of who we LOVE and are told that we must deny ouselves that intimate emotional bond with another. What I seriously wonder about is when it’s scientifically proved that being gay isn’t a choice anymore than being born a hermaphrodite is what will the church’s response be? What will society’s response be in terms of access to civil marriage?
RF…despite all the reality checks on participating in organized religion that I’ve just written I would urge you to find a church if only for your boys. I firmly believe that having a religious upbringing is important if only to establish a point of reference for comparison to other religious beliefs. My best friend is half Japanese/half American mut. She grew up in a family that didn’t practice any religion and has expressed that as a regret after attending many a Christmas Midnight Mass with my family. There were also other benefits such as participating in Youth Group and Youth Choir. I had experiences that I wouldn’t have otherwise and I know my parents were comfortable having us go on overnight trips, to summer camp for several weeks, or out for social events that they probably wouldn’t have if they’d been available outside of the church family.
By Chilao
March 29, 2006 10:49 AM | Link to this
It is essentially the same as me saying that because i can go to Greece and see Mount Olympus, it somehow validates Greek Mythology.
Thank you GOB, did not know how to express that. Of course there was a place called UR, Caldees, Babylon, a guy named Abraham even, and even Jesus. And that means?
By Archie
March 29, 2006 10:52 AM | Link to this
You were fine Renee. I just didn’t write it correctly. Yes,Bruce I wonder about the conflict of interest myself. Once again you were fine Renee. I just didn’t write it correctly because I agree with your definition of how laws should come about. We the people should really ask how much privilege is reasonable for certain important people. How important is it for you to be at a meeting only 10 minutes late?
By Mara
March 29, 2006 11:03 AM | Link to this
Julia - The archaelogical evidence supports the bible completely
People and places in Homer’s “The Illiad” and his “Odyssey” are also completely supported by archeological and historical records. I guess that means that those books, as well as the gods represented there-in, are also valid historical texts. All hail the Olympian Gods!! (hah, heh, heh!) How about the Nordic pantheon? Their existance is supported by the Norse mythology. How about the Native American Great Father? The Aztec gods? They all have temples, holy places, or monuments that are historically and archeologically verifiable. These gods have at least as much evidence for their existance as your god does. There is no proof Julia, there is only faith and conjecture.
And once again I’d like to point out that despite the widely accepted idea that non-christians have obviously never had a spiritually experience, I’m here to say that usually the reason we aren’t christians is that we have had spiritual experiences that either challenge or directly contradict items in the Bible. If your religion makes you happy, bully for you. But don’t for a minute think that those of us who don’t share your belief are somehow lacking in spirituality. Some of us even have more spirituality than many of the so-called “faithful”.
By Julia
March 29, 2006 11:07 AM | Link to this
I guess it means you believe the historical parts of the bible but not the spiritual. You believe parts of it but not all of it.
I choose to believe all of it-mostly because of personal first-hand experiences.
By FatMoose
March 29, 2006 11:09 AM | Link to this
NetB, FM - while I understand your perspective from seeing your Dad’s patients you wouldn’t see all the women who didn’t need counseling so that experience would seem to skew your impression of the psychological effects.
At the LEAST, I was showing that it is not in any case simalar to a pap smear - for if it was, I would have seen those patients as well. I find that position isane.
In reality it proves that this is always a psychological risk and never a situation is happy to have come about.
Given those parameters, the discussion of abortion - whatever ones personal agenda is - does need to continue (in general) to be explored.
If another route presents itself that is not as invasive as abortion or maybe prevents the need of one totally (think being sterile EXCEPT when you take a pill/injection right before you want to concieve); it is hard for me to see abortion continueing to be a perminent “right.”
{and Whiley, the only use simalar to “fetus lover” is “n**r lover” and think you should revise your labeling of people in that manner - it presents the same crassness and insiniates you are a “fetus hater” ans that you avocate to be a “fetus hater” is admirable.}
By Bruce
March 29, 2006 11:11 AM | Link to this
I know this isn’t Friday but I couldn’t wait.
A West Texas cowboy was herding his herd in a remote pasture when suddenly a brand-new BMW advanced out of a dust cloud towards him.
The driver, a young man in a Brioni suit, Gucci shoes, Ray Ban sunglasses and YSL tie, leans out the window and asks the cowboy, “If I tell you exactly how many cows and calves you have in your herd, will you give me a calf?”
The cowboy looks at the man, obviously a yuppie, then looks at his peacefully grazing herd and calmly answers, “Sure, why not?
The yuppie parks his car, whips out his Dell notebook computer, connects it to his AT&T cell phone, and surfs to a NASA page on the Internet, where he calls up a GPS satellite navigation system to get an exact fix on his location which he then feeds to another NASA satellite that scans the area in an ultra-high-resolution photo. The young man then opens the digital photo in Adobe Photoshop and exports it to an image processing facility in Hamburg, Germany. Within seconds, he receives an email on his Palm Pilot that the image has been processed and the data stored. He then accesses a MS-SQL database through an ODBC connected Excel spreadsheet with email on his Blackberry and, after a few minutes, receives a response. Finally, he prints out a full-color, 150-page report on his hi-tech, miniaturized HP LaserJet printer and finally turns to the cowboy and says, “You have exactly 1586 cows and calves.”
“That’s right. Well, I guess you can take one of my calves,” says the cowboy. He watches the young man select one of the animals and looks on amused as the young man stuffs it into the trunk of his car.
Then the cowboy says to the young man, “Hey, if I can tell you exactly what your business is, will you give me back my calf?”
The young man thinks about it for a second and then says, “Okay, why not?”
“You’re a consultant for the National Democratic Party” says the cowboy.
“Wow! That’s correct,” says the yuppie, “but how did you guess that?”
“No guessing required.” answered the cowboy. “You showed up here even though nobody called you; you want to get paid for an answer I already knew, to a question I never asked; and you don’t know anything about my business…….. Now give me back my dog.”
By Renee
March 29, 2006 11:18 AM | Link to this
LOL Bruce, good one!!
By GOB
March 29, 2006 11:18 AM | Link to this
I guess it means you believe the historical parts of the bible but not the spiritual. You believe parts of it but not all of it
I don’t think that it is truly possible to distinguish between the two in any meaningful way. In the historical context, yes I believe that the Egyptians existed and had slaves, and that Babylon existed and held many Hebrews as slaves. The problem is that all of these historical parts of the bible are tied to spiritual events, which makes them inseparable.
Also, not to be nosy, but what kind of personal first-hand experience could make biblical stories more true? Noah? Moses? Even Paul?
I really am curious as to that, and am not trying to come across as confrontational.
By Chilao
March 29, 2006 11:19 AM | Link to this
“You’re a consultant for the National Democratic Party” says the cowboy.
Wow, I heard that as GOP instead. Must be the company I keep. LMAO
By Jack
March 29, 2006 11:20 AM | Link to this
Good one Bruce.
By Julia
March 29, 2006 11:25 AM | Link to this
we have had spiritual experiences that either challenge or directly contradict items in the Bible
So, you’ve had spiritual experiences? With which spirits exactly? I’m curious. Becuase not all spirits are from God.
By Brian Curtis
March 29, 2006 11:30 AM | Link to this
Lots of myths mention real places. Mount Olympus is a great example.
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Mara, nothing will really be done about immigration because corporations (who are, after all, running our government) are making money off them. It’s all political posturing as a gear-up to election season.
Not that I have any idea what to do about immigration, either… except to note that our existing policy has been working the best of any immigration policy in world history, and the ‘guest worker’ stuff Bush wants to copy from Europe hasn’t exactly worked out too well for them.
-
Julia: Your beliefs are your choice, and I respect that. As long as you don’t try to get your personal beliefs enshrined in law, or use them to pass judgment on others, we can all believe what we want and get along.
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FM: Abortion is sometimes a minor procedure, sometimes a traumatic one… what of it? I had foot surgery a few years back, and it destroyed some nerves in my foot. Two of my toes are now “dead.” Boo-hoo. I’m not happy about it, but I’m certainly not feeling guilty either. It was necessary, I had it done, I move on.
Other people have more trouble coping with a medical crisis, and of course mine was trivial compared to, say, a heart valve implant or triple bypass. But some folks bounce back and others are so shaken by it that their lives are changed forever. That’s life.
And will someone please let me know just as soon as the planet starts running low on humans? Because I’ve promised that, when that happens, I’ll immediately switch to believing that zygotes are suddenly rare and precious, to be protected at all costs, including at the expense of the rights and health of others.
By Julia
March 29, 2006 11:34 AM | Link to this
GOB-The problem is that all of these historical parts of the bible are tied to spiritual events, which makes them inseparable.
You sort of made my point for me with that statement.
Also, not to be nosy, but what kind of personal first-hand experience could make biblical stories more true? Noah? Moses? Even Paul?
I didn’t mean to inply that I had first-hand experience with the books of the bible. I’d have to be pretty old to have been around for some of those! LOL!!!
I was talking about personal spiritual experiences.
By kimberly
March 29, 2006 11:34 AM | Link to this
If you read historical accounts of the life and teachings of Christ (the ones the Italian guys in pointy hats allowed to be included in their great text), then it is quite clear that Christ was not a bigot. So why are so many of “his followers” such judgmental, intolerant, finger-pointing, un-loving, exclusionary BIGOTS? Is it any wonder we don’t go to church anymore? It’s not our Creator we’ve rejected, people! Get a clue.
By Brian Curtis
March 29, 2006 11:39 AM | Link to this
Kimberly: Good point! Plenty of people love God or Jesus but want nothing to do with Christianity.
Rejecting the church doesn’t necessarily mean rejecting faith.
By Chilao
March 29, 2006 11:42 AM | Link to this
I heard of a spirit when I was little, a local had converted to Christianity, and then some evil spirit came and attacked that person in the night, for converting, and the newly-converted had to call on a stronger spirit to help him fight off the bad spirit. Think it was later used in storytelling to indicate converting was the best thing, since it obviously upset the bad spirits so. and when the evil spirits are upset, you know you are on to something good.
or SOMETHING like that.
I think the bad spirit’s name was Totamana (I’ll have to google that, must be online by now)
By Mara
March 29, 2006 11:46 AM | Link to this
Julia - my own spirit of course. And if your god created everything, how can anything not come from him. Even your dark demigod, Lucifer, is of god in that God created him. Are you saying that Lucifer is a creator too? I was under the impression that he could only corrupt, not create.
as an aside, am I the only one who has pondered with amusement the acceptance of Lucifer as the bringer of death, destruction, and darkness when his name actually interprets to “Light-bearer” and “bringer of the Dawn”? I find that so ironic…
By Jack
March 29, 2006 11:47 AM | Link to this
Church is in your heart.
By RF
March 29, 2006 11:48 AM | Link to this
The best spirits are Jack Daniels and some of the better Russian and Canadian spirits. Oh wait, we weren’t talking about those spirits, were we?? Well, all I know is I’ve seen God after a little communing with those spirits, you know what I mean?? wink,wink!
By GOB
March 29, 2006 11:49 AM | Link to this
*GOB-The problem is that all of these historical parts of the bible are tied to spiritual events, which makes them inseparable.
You sort of made my point for me with that statement.*
Julia - The point I was making was that you cant use historical people or places to prove something spiritual. They are inseparable in the bible because the bible is not trying to be historically accurate. It’s purpose is to win converts. That is why I question that value and validity of using the bible as a true historical reference.
I dont have the first problem with your beliefs, and you seem like someone who is trying to live the way the Jesus actually instructs. I am just curious as to the basis for what people believe. I have meet way too many people who have very strong beliefs about something, but when you ask them why, they cant tell you.
By The72John
March 29, 2006 11:49 AM | Link to this
Organized religion is a curse on civilization. It emphasizes our differences rather than our similarities, casts right and wrong in black and white, divides people into groups of “Good” and “Bad” based on arbitrary criteria that often have nothing to do with the character of the people so divided, encourages war and violence, places “faith” above reason and logic, and devalues science in favor of superstition.
For every marvel that religion has provided us, for every magnificent piece of architecture, for every b-minor Mass, for every Mother Theresa, there are two evils. There are wars, all in the name of religion. There are murders, all in the name of religion. There are cultures that have been obliterated, all in the name of religion.
And why? Because in our quest to find meaning, we’ve settled for the lowest common denominator. People are judgemental and narrow and hate and fear that which is different, so we assume that God is the same. We ascribe to God the same petty qualities that we have. Instead of searching for true spirituality, we’ve settled for dogma, for condemnation, for easy paths to the spiritual.
By Julia
March 29, 2006 11:49 AM | Link to this
And will someone please let me know just as soon as the planet starts running low on humans?
So, this is a good reason to eliminate a few of those pesky human beings? How about the handicapped? What about the poor? Shall we eliminate those for the good of society?
You know that when you’re pregnant and find out the (baby) has a handicap they give you the option of abortion? My babysitter’s sister was told the baby would have Down’s Syndrome. However, the baby was born perfectly healthy. If she’d listened to the doctor the baby would not be here today. There are so many cases just like this.
They make it seem as if anything less than a “perfect” baby is acceptable to our human race and should be eliminated before birth. What message does that send to all of the handicapped people in the world? That they have less of a right to life than you or me?
By Mara
March 29, 2006 11:54 AM | Link to this
Brian Curtis - I dunno the answer either. While there’s nothing intrinsically wrong with the legislation, the record on enforcement is woefully inadequate.
Bruce - funny, funny, funny!! LOL!
Kimberly - speaking of the pointy hatted arbitors of holiness…did you happen to catch the History Channel program “Banned from the Bible”? Amazing.
By RF
March 29, 2006 11:57 AM | Link to this
Church is in your heart.
excellent point Jack!
By Julia
March 29, 2006 11:58 AM | Link to this
Mara-going to lunch now but will get back with you this afternoon.
By Whiley
March 29, 2006 12:09 PM | Link to this
One of my main beefs with the bible is the whole creating of the earth in a week thing. What a bunch of cockie-poo. I can understand why people centuries ago could believe that BS, but now???? When it’s been PROVEN that our earth is billions of years old.
By Brian Curtis
March 29, 2006 12:09 PM | Link to this
Julia: Eliminating human beings? Of course not! Who’s talking about human beings? We’re talking about abortion here, which affects zygotes and fetuses, not people.
Now, some of these might eventually, given the right conditions, grow into human beings… but I don’t save up bushels of acorns in case I lose a tree. There’s plenty to go around, and the squirrels can have theirs.
By kimberly
March 29, 2006 12:11 PM | Link to this
I LOVE the History Channel! I’ll have to look for the reruns. The History Channel always reminds me how evil human beings can be, and why I must NEVER EVER trust other human beings (especially rich, white, Christian, legislator types) to make decisions about MY life!
Haha…Pontificate all you want, oh self-righteous, preacher-thumpers. Your track record SUCKS, and we have documented history to prove it!
By FatMoose
March 29, 2006 12:11 PM | Link to this
FM: Abortion is sometimes a minor procedure, sometimes a traumatic one… what of it?
Just as a point to show the fundie side of pro-choice: With the proceedure you had, as with all proceedures, you, by law, had to be informed of the risks.
When people tried to legistlate that same access to info regarding abortion - pro-choicers (which I am still currently one) called it a tactic. Where as the reality is that somegirl that could be on the blog today may go in expecting a proceedure that is simalar to a pap smear bc of the ignorance spouted - and end up one of my dad’s patients.
Tell boohoo to the women that find that everything was not removed and therefore have rotting fetus parts in their womb (know two women that this occured with) - or that have great bouts of depression - or that cannot have a child again.
Your flipant “boohoo” is evidence that you do not truely regard the situation as seriously as it is - prochoice or not. Anyone as dismissive as most on here has as much tunnel vision as the fundies.
By Just Being Me
March 29, 2006 12:16 PM | Link to this
Okay, I’m not really “here” today… just scanned through a little bit to see what I’ve missed. Two quick points:
Mara, Lucifer is not evil. Lucifer is best known for being the angel of worship, which is why his name means “bearer of light.” Most educated Christians differentiate between Lucifer and satan. satan is who Lucifer became when he “fell” from grace and decided that he wanted to be all powerful. Many secular people refer to satan as Lucifer, but that’s not accurate.
Another point: Anyone who has not had a pap smear and an abortion cannot refute whether or not having one is a similar experience to having another. I’m sure everyone will agree that having an abortion is a different procedure; but in terms of what a woman feels, an uncomplicated abortion is not much unlike a pap smear.
By FatMoose
March 29, 2006 12:18 PM | Link to this
One of my main beefs with the bible is the whole creating of the earth in a week thing.
Why could it not have taken a week to setup and devise? God hits the start button and all the natural laws begin? And given god is outside of time - it gets pretty moot anyways - which simpletons may ask “what do you mean outside of time?” And I answer, well light is outside of time…and god is light… Too easy;)
In my view this can encompass all of science, including evolution.
By Brian Curtis
March 29, 2006 12:24 PM | Link to this
There needn’t be any conflict between science and religious faith… unless you try to give religion unwarranted credibility in science and other areas.
By FatMoose
March 29, 2006 12:27 PM | Link to this
Eliminating human beings? Of course not! Who’s talking about human beings? We’re talking about abortion here, which affects zygotes and fetuses, not people.
To truely be OK with this premise, I find I would have to be OK in thinking that if you never existed; there would be no loss: To me, you, or the world - I see NO evidence that supports that level of unimportance.
Otherwise death would not be such an issue as an adult - for an adult is just a large collection of cells with a neural network alowing it the ability to fool itself into thinking it is important.
By Whiley
March 29, 2006 12:33 PM | Link to this
I repeat, it’s been proven that the earth is MUCH MUCH MUCH MUCH older than the bible says. And what about the cavemen & dinosaurs? If the bible is the end all be all & knows everything, why doesn’t it discuss it?
The bible seems to have remembered everything a snake in a garden said word for word, but nothing specific about the cavemen & dinosaurs? And that silly story about Adam & Eve, please people get a grip. Eve ate an apple & that’s why childbirth is painful???lol
By Whiley
March 29, 2006 12:40 PM | Link to this
So God can do all this fantasic stuff with a push of a button, create earth, the animals, cells, water, whatever. God has the ability, but just can’t seem to work out that hurricane problem, tornados, earthquakes, floods, disease, the common cold. And God wants to constantly test us, even killed his own kid (you’d think he’d have the power to not need that?) it’s a scam. lol
By RF
March 29, 2006 12:42 PM | Link to this
for an adult is just a large collection of cells with a neural network alowing it the ability to fool itself into thinking it is important.
I didn’t know we had switched to talking about the president!
By Mara
March 29, 2006 12:47 PM | Link to this
FM - do you have actual first-hand experience as to what an abortion feels like or what runs through your mind before, during, and after the procedure? You call my description “ignorance” but rebut with only anecdotal evidence collected, I assume, from your fathers psychiatric office. Somegirl may indeed have a traumatic abortion but there’s just as good a chance that she won’t. The fact is that you are making sweeping statements implying that all women should expect to have some kind of horrifying, debilitating and painful procedure.
To me, that is ignorant.
By Mara
March 29, 2006 12:50 PM | Link to this
RF - that my friend, is one of the best descriptions of this president I have ever seen (except for miserable failure, of course) HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!
JBM - I did not know that about ol’ Lucy-fer. I’m glad I learned something today. :^)
By Brian Curtis
March 29, 2006 12:55 PM | Link to this
Good one, RF!
By Just Being Me
March 29, 2006 12:57 PM | Link to this
Mara, remember our little talk!! :-)
By chuck
March 29, 2006 01:02 PM | Link to this
Archaeological discoveries verify the historical reliability of the Old and New Testaments.
When compared to other religious books, the Bible is unique in that it is the oldest, as testified by the places, people, titles, and events mentioned in the Bible; and the language and literary formats used to compose the Bible.
Many scholars today question the validity of Biblical accounts, supposedly based on the findings of archaeology. When the “discrepancies” are examined in detail, however it is found that the problems lie with the archaeology (i.e. misinterpretation of evidence, lack of evidence, or poor scholarship) and not with the Bible.
How can archaeology prove helpful to someone seeking for truth to the basic questions about life?
The discoveries of archaeology can be helpful in removing doubts that a person might have about the historical trustworthiness of the Bible. The miracles described, as well as the spiritual message, must be accepted on faith, which is the basis of our relationship with God. When the truth of Scripture is challenged by skeptics, archaeology can be used to demonstrate that the people, places, and events of the Bible are real.
What archaeological discovery would you point to as the most convincing evidence for the Bible being God’s Word?
Any one discovery can be explained away as coincidence, or an alternative interpretation can be given to disassociate it from the Bible. It is the weight of a myriad of discoveries that demonstrates the Bible to be the Word of God.
These discoveries fall into three categories:
Archaeological evidence demonstrates the historical and cultural accuracy of the Bible.
The Bible’s message of a loving Creator God who interacts in the affairs of mankind and has provided a means of salvation stands in sharp contrast to the pagan fertility religions of the ancient world as, revealed by archaeology.
Archaeological findings demonstrate that the Biblical prophets accurately predicted events hundreds of years before they occurred — something that lies beyond the capability of mere men.
Evidence and further information on this topic:
Archaeology and the Bible Associates for Biblical Research Answers About Religions of the World Author: Bryant G. Wood, Ph.D. of Associates for Biblical Research, as quoted in Areopagus Proclamation, Vol. 13, No. 4, January 2003.
Bryant G. Wood, Ph.D., is Director of Associates for Biblical Research and editor of Bible & Spade journal. He is adjunct professor at a number of educational institutions. He presently continues extensive archaeological field work. He and his wife Faith live in Harrisburg, PA. Dr. Wood has served as an AIIA Resource Associate since March of 1997.
Text copyright © 2003, 2004, AIIA Institute, All Rights Reserved - except as noted on attached “Usage and Copyright” page that grants ChristianAnswers.Net users generous rights for putting this page to work in their homes, personal witnessing, churches and schools.
By FatMoose
March 29, 2006 01:02 PM | Link to this
So God can do all this fantasic stuff with a push of a button, create earth, the animals, cells, water, whatever. God has the ability, but just can’t seem to work out that hurricane problem, tornados, earthquakes, floods, disease, the common cold. And God wants to constantly test us, even killed his own kid (you’d think he’d have the power to not need that?) it’s a scam. lol
What blissful ignorance. You apply the one-dimentional man-made limits to god. The god I know has only to watch the system he created - it is self sustaining. Any good you want, you can get; and dig yourself into a hole? You get to dig yourself out. No judging needs to occur from god in a self-righting system.
I can use my reef aquarium for an example. I set it up in a day, but it takes time (weeks) for it to cycle and do what it needs in order to prepare itself. I still started the whole thing, and understand it inside-out - but I do not judge/kill the fish. They may keep running into the anenomy, and die, but I do not, nor need to, control every fluctuation of every parameter. And yes, the stupid fish will look at me and ask why was I so mean as to LET the goby starve after chewing on that pretty, but toxic, pulsating xenia; but that is said out of the notion that I am controling EVERY minute detail of the system. And we are back to the root of humans issues: Entitlement. You think we are entitled to a father in the sky that adjusts every little parameter to our liking, just as you do in waking life, which is why we are refered to as children in the bible.
Hence why no one debates here long - there is no need of intelligent approach to any subject.
By Jack
March 29, 2006 01:03 PM | Link to this
Whiley. he may have had an “easy” button from Staples. LOL
By Mara
March 29, 2006 01:05 PM | Link to this
JBM - (sigh) I know, I know….I’m a glutton for punishment I guess. ;^P
By Chilao
March 29, 2006 01:07 PM | Link to this
even killed his own kid (you’d think he’d have the power to not need that?)
I heard a good idea recently: If the Bible truly were the inspired word of God, you would think he would have been making every effort through the ages to not only see that it was translated correctly and without editting, he would be making every effort to see that it was not misquoted/misused.
Heresy I know, but just a thought. LOL
Yeah, Lucifer was Gabriel’s arch rival before the fall. The Mayans have a similiar story.
I have an email out to a reporter on the other side of the world about the correct spelling for “Totamana” (or whateva, could be something like Tau’ta-mane) but it is about 3 am there, so do not expect a return any time soon. If I even get one, could be a sensitive subject. LOL
By Renee
March 29, 2006 01:08 PM | Link to this
John - I love your 11:49 post.
I agree with JBM, I find it hard to believe that someone who has never had an abortion nor a papsmear could begin to argue what it feels like and/or what the end results could be. As stated many times before, there is a risk with any medical procedure you do. My boss just had knee surgery which has a 9% fatality rate. That’s high for knee surgery, shouldn’t we ban it too, then.
One of my main beefs with the bible is the whole creating of the earth in a week thing. What a bunch of cockie-poo. I can understand why people centuries ago could believe that BS, but now???? When it’s been PROVEN that our earth is billions of years old
Whiley, I don’t find this to be a valid argument, especially when people don’t believe it was created last week. The belief is that it was created in a week, many (not sure of the amount equating to many) years ago.
By chuck
March 29, 2006 01:09 PM | Link to this
What God’s Word Says About Abortion By Lynn Copeland
God speaks very clearly in the Bible on the value of unborn children. God’s Word says that He personally made each one of us, and has a plan for each life:
“Before I formed you in the womb I knew you, before you were born I set you apart” (Jeremiah 1:5).
“Even before I was born, God had chosen me to be His” (Galatians 1:15).
“For You created my inmost being; You knit me together in my mother’s womb … Your eyes saw my unformed body. All the days ordained for me were written in Your book before one of them came to be” (Psalm 139:13, 16). “Your hands shaped me and made me … Did You not clothe me with skin and flesh and knit me together with bones and sinews? You gave me life” (Job 10:8–12).
“This is what the Lord says—He who made you, who formed you in the womb” (Isaiah 44:2).
“Did not He who made me in the womb make them? Did not the same One form us both within our mothers?” (Job 31:15).
Because man is made in God’s own image (Genesis 1:27), each life is of great value to God: “Children are a gift from God” (Psalm 127:3). He even calls our children His own: “You took your sons and daughters whom you bore to Me and sacrificed them…You slaughtered My children” (Ezekiel 16:20,21). The Bible says of our Creator, “In His hand is the life of every living thing and the breath of every human being” (Job 12:10). God, the giver of life, commands us not to take the life of an innocent person: “Do not shed innocent blood” (Jeremiah 7:6); “Cursed is the man who accepts a bribe to kill an innocent person” (Deuteronomy 27:25). “You shall not murder” (Exodus 20:13). Taking the life of the unborn is clearly murder—”He didn’t kill me in the womb, with my mother as my grave” (Jeremiah 20:17)— and God vowed to punish those who “ripped open the women with child” (Amos 1:13).
The unborn child was granted equal protection in the law; if he lost his life, the one who caused his death must lose his own life: “If men who are fighting hit a pregnant woman and she gives birth prematurely but there is no serious injury, the offender must be fined …But if there is serious injury, you are to take life for life” (Exodus 21:22,23). Life is a gift created by God, and is not to be taken away by abortion. God is “prochoice,” but He tells us clearly the only acceptable choice to make: “I have set before you life and death, blessings and curses. Now choose life, so that you and your children may live” (Deuteronomy 30:19).
By The72John
March 29, 2006 01:09 PM | Link to this
Oh my gosh - a christian fundamentalist website claims to have proof that the Bible is historically correct! Why…I must be wrong about everything!
By Chilao
March 29, 2006 01:10 PM | Link to this
Jack - I thought the same thing about Staples. LOL
Anybody ever heard/read of Landover Baptist Church? A Baptist coworker pointed it out to me, he was aghast. Worth a read.
By Just Being Me
March 29, 2006 01:11 PM | Link to this
I am curious as to why people in general (obviously my question is sparked by a particular recent incident, but it is still a general question) have such a hard time accepting that their opinion is just an opinion and isn’t necessarily right. I’m also curious about why people have a hard time accepting that Jim and Jane may both be right even though they are saying two different things.
The fact is that some people have abortions that are traumatic. Some women end up with fragments of the fetus left in their bodies. Some women die. Some women end up with infections. Some women have nightmares. Some women hear babies crying in their heads. Some women live the rest of their lives with regret.
AT THE SAME TIME, there are some women who are not at all traumatized by their abortions. Some women say that their experience was nothing more dreadful than having a pap smear. Some have completely uncomplicated procedures wherein they walk away just as healthy as they were before they got pregnant. Some women don’t have nightmares or regrets, nor do they hear babies crying or experience guilt.
By FatMoose
March 29, 2006 01:13 PM | Link to this
The fact is that you are making sweeping statements implying that all women should expect to have some kind of horrifying, debilitating and painful procedure.
No I am not and you should paste something that shows I have posted this view.
And to rebut: Where as the reality is that somegirl that could be on the blog today may go in expecting a proceedure that is simalar to a pap smear bc of the ignorance spouted - and end up one of my dad’s patients. Shows I did not SLANT my view.
You state, and I am accurate: Somegirl may indeed have a traumatic abortion but there’s just as good a chance that she won’t. Stating it is a 50/50 chance - which is false and is ignorant.
And do not forget the talk! I would hate for you to not be able to sustain a conversation bc you cannot remember how to act without someone jarring you.
Subtle;)
By Mara
March 29, 2006 01:15 PM | Link to this
Kimberly, that program I was talking about, Banned from the Bible, was really really interesting. There are so many transcripts and gospels that were deemed to be “too contraversial” or “un-verifiable” to be included into canon. For example, there are ancient writings alleging that Mary Magdalene was actually one of the Apostles. In fact, they say she was one of Jesus’ favorite apostles. According to the program, Jesus imparted upon her many holy proclaimations that he neglected to share with the others. Because of her gender, meaning the intrinsic sinfulness of her nature as a daughter of Eve, the gospel was deemed…suspect. As I said, it was a very interesting program.
By chuck
March 29, 2006 01:18 PM | Link to this
fm, I don’t often say this, but your 1:02 is the MOST logical thing I have ever heard you say. Brilliant. I believe I have underestimated you.
By GOB
March 29, 2006 01:23 PM | Link to this
Hence why no one debates here long - there is no need of intelligent approach to any subject.
FM - I think the reason no one spends much time debating you has more to do with your condescending, know-it-all tone. If you aren’t willing to even accept the possibility that other people might have more information or have a better insight into something than you do, why would any of us waste our time?
By Just Being Me
March 29, 2006 01:25 PM | Link to this
Mara, just forget it. Remember that at one point, everyone on this blog becomes ignorant (or a simpleton), in FM’s opinion. Well, everyone except him, of course. I can easily count the regulars on this blog who have not been called some condescending name by him. Fortunately, we are all smart enough to know better.
Anyone on this blog (and I do mean anyone) can tell that you are far from ignorant. You are among the smartest women on this blog. Hopefully, you’re dismissing him with a flicker of the hand.
By kimberly
March 29, 2006 01:28 PM | Link to this
QUOTE THIS, CHUCKIE: Palms 137, verse 9: Happy shall he be that taketh and dasheth thy little ones against the stones.
See how ANY A—HOLE can quote or twist this book you worship in order to make their point? So please just admit you hate women and gay people, and that hatred and disharmony are the predominant driving factors in your life. C’mon Chuck. Admit it. THE TRUTH SHALL SET YOU FREE.
By Renee
March 29, 2006 01:30 PM | Link to this
Good comment again Gob! I think we need another tiara!! RF…give it up!!
By Whiley
March 29, 2006 01:30 PM | Link to this
And MOST are thankful legal abortion was avail to them. MOST did not have a “bad” experience. MOST learn from it & go on with their lives. I’ve never had one but I’ve had MANY friends over the years face this issue. If I can remember correctly I’ve assisted 5 women to clinics. The only bad behavior I witnessed were the bible beaters picketing. We always had a good laugh about it because NONE were attractive in any way, or they were fat old men. Of course abortion would never be THEIR issue. On one occasion we had “words” with them, we received an earful of “whores” calling of course. Nice bible beaters they were. Today if one of them were in my face, I’d mace them. Would that be legal? To be honest that was a long time ago, although unplanned pregnancies happen later on in life, it seems almost everybody was dealing with it when we were really young. Birth control wasn’t talked about as much back then, so it wasn’t surprising the pregnancy rates among us. We were kids, with little to no ability to say no to much of anything lol. And if alcohol was involved, lol forget it. I doubt that’s changed much.
By Jack
March 29, 2006 01:31 PM | Link to this
Mara. That sounds like what Brown wrote in “The DaVinci Code”. The also removed reincarnation from the bible because they didn’t want people to give up and commit suicide when things get tough.
FM. GOB is right.
By GOB
March 29, 2006 01:32 PM | Link to this
Chilao - Landover is high comedy. Reading the letters is one of the best parts, especially those that have no idea what parody or satire are.
By FatMoose
March 29, 2006 01:33 PM | Link to this
I heard a good idea recently: If the Bible truly were the inspired word of God, you would think he would have been making every effort through the ages to not only see that it was translated correctly and without editting, he would be making every effort to see that it was not misquoted/misused.
God explains that the he and the truth is hidden - and it is also explained by jesus that everyone of his followers will betray him. So to find the truth, one must dig deep and hard - which should be no surprise.
……………..
Chuck,
The world is made up of truths, and many of them can be found without the bible. When use of the bible blocks out other truths or avenues to truth - it is no longer serving a divine purpose. I suggest you think on this fact.
When you find two truths that seem to oppose, you see an impass, where-as I see guidence to a greater truth. For all the truths I have found do layer nicely, although complex, like fractels upon each other. If they do not match up, I know I have more areas to discover and it is my thinking/understanding that is flawed - not that one of the truths must be trashed.
By Just Being Me
March 29, 2006 01:34 PM | Link to this
GOB, don’t bother. That question has been asked and unanswered so many times. In fact, I can’t even count how many people have called FM out on his condescending little comments. And I can predict (in fact, I did predict earlier this week) each time he’ll make this grand departure stating that he can never have an intelligent debate because everyone here is beneath him and not worthy of his time… and he just comes here to be entertained… yada yada yada. There isn’t a single regular here who hasn’t heard that at least three times in the last few months. (They may not want to get involved, but they know it’s true).
By Whiley
March 29, 2006 01:37 PM | Link to this
Chuck, the bible is poppy-c**, so I don’t believe any of the “quotes” you spout as true.
YOU may believe it that’s fine & dandy, as long as you don’t force your belief’s on an entire country.
Why do the bible beaters love to quote the bible so much? like if they spout it enough all of a sudden they’ll convince others,”well dang he says it enough, it’s printed in that pretty book, dang it must be true.”
By GOB
March 29, 2006 01:38 PM | Link to this
Renee - Might wife might start to wonder about me if i come home in a tiara…
By Whiley
March 29, 2006 01:41 PM | Link to this
Is “The DaVinci Code” really that good?
By RF
March 29, 2006 01:41 PM | Link to this
See, that’s where I have a problem with christianity, FM. If it’s true, then why hide it? Why would the all-powerful, life-saving truth need to be hidden? Seems illogical to me. That’s another of man’s inventions to explain all the editing, adding, and deleting we’ve done over the millenia.
By Mara
March 29, 2006 01:41 PM | Link to this
Last post to FM (at least for this topic yawn) - 3:28 yesterday - Well, I have seen all the patients that my dad had (psychiatrist) who had abortions, and they experienced long term trauma.
11:09 - I was showing that it is not in any case simalar to a pap smear…In reality it proves that this is always a psychological risk
12:11 - the reality is that somegirl that could be on the blog today may go in expecting a proceedure that is simalar to a pap smear bc of the ignorance spouted - and end up one of my dad’s patients.
and sure stating that there’s a 50/50 chance she’ll have a traumatic abortion may be ignorant, but I really didn’t want to say you were completely full of “it”… So where are your NON-partisan statistics saying that 50/50 is false? Eh? EH?!
(ok, I’m done now…)
By Renee
March 29, 2006 01:44 PM | Link to this
LOL Gob - right, right. Umm….okay..we’ll come up with something else, maybe a belt??? A big manly, weightlifter type belt, with some Blog Award on the buckle….lol
By FatMoose
March 29, 2006 01:46 PM | Link to this
JBM,
Worming your way back into my arms? NTY.
Remember that at one point, everyone on this blog becomes ignorant (or a simpleton), in FM’s opinion.
Not everyone - most, but not everyone. And before you lie, it does not fall on gender lines either.
And you can replace that with: Remember that at one point, everyone on this blog becomes beligerent name callers as soon as someone tries to debate something decently.
I have lurked out of curiosity and find the same caustic dialogs on here without the people you want to blame - including chuck. I was lurking last week and it was just you, jack and the other fraternity members; and you guys tore each other up as well as this week too. And the conclusion to your arguement? The same as ours the first few times - you were talking about x and he was talking about y. if you cannot keep a debate straight - be ready to frustrate people who can.
Just look at Julia’s tenacity yesterday inspite of yours and others toxic attitudes/words…And I had no part in that yet you acted every bit as ignorant and caustic as ever.
By Nikita
March 29, 2006 01:47 PM | Link to this
From Fat Moose: “To truely be OK with this premise, I find I would have to be OK in thinking that if you never existed; there would be no loss: To me, you, or the world - I see NO evidence that supports that level of unimportance.”
FM, I don’t agree with this thinking. In my opinion you are unique — however you don’t become you until some point in your development. And you certainly aren’t you before you are sentient. So, there is no loss if you cease to progress before becoming.
Furthermore, as far as the world is considered there is no loss. Our worlds are of necessity constructed of what is in them, not what is not. If we are well-adjusted we celebrate what’s in them — we don’t mourn jobs we didn’t get, buildings that were not built, or people we never met.
Personally, if I’m going to mourn things that did not come to pass, I mourn people who spend their lives being abused, being wards of the state, or suffering catastrophic injuries. Because these are real people, and they suffer unto their deaths.
There was a boy here who was beaten to death by his mother and her boyfriend a few years ago. His death, frankly, didn’t bother me — but the fact that he lived so, and that the ordinary hell of his life devolved into a violent end really upsets me.
By Nikita
March 29, 2006 01:51 PM | Link to this
Also… a) To those who do not respect the authority of the bible as the infallible, god-inspired truth, the words from it matter not at all. So, unless we’re going to institute a theocracy they cannot be the basis for our laws. b) Multiple studies were done on post-abortion trauma by people who badly wanted to find some. C. Everett Koop, for one. And they didn’t.
By RF
March 29, 2006 01:58 PM | Link to this
Nikita- that’s the problem noone really wants to deal with. Nothing is sadder than an unwanted, unloved, or abused child. Yet, in all the debate, no real solutions can be found to the very real problem of abuse, neglect, and death brought on by parents of these children.
By RF
March 29, 2006 02:00 PM | Link to this
Renee- get him a manly man hat. Trucker’s cap with stitched on logo would be good.
By Jack
March 29, 2006 02:04 PM | Link to this
Yes Whiley a very good read. You will see why the church didn’t like it too much.
If a man is elected and is a Christian, he will vote as a Christian then let the courts decide.
By FatMoose
March 29, 2006 02:08 PM | Link to this
I think the reason no one spends much time debating you has more to do with your condescending, know-it-all tone. If you aren’t willing to even accept the possibility that other people might have more information or have a better insight into something than you do, why would any of us waste our time?
Last q first: people might have more information or have a better insight into something than you do, why would any of us waste our time?
That is the point - besides a couple of people on here (julia, NetB for example) - no one PROVIDES insight; they provide opinions that they assert without any type of backing in a crass/sarcastic tone. I reply to those “debates” with a sweep of “Do you really have nothing else to provide besides opinion + attitude?” And the overwhelming response from you is a big fat “YES - All I have is my opinion and if you do not like it you can….” And then the name calling begins by most of you. At this point I do not take you serious - repeat and rinse a number of times, and I will never take you serious.
All of my postitions on the blog are backed some reference - and it takes a rebuttal of references to see what falls out of the equation that we both can learn from. This happens with those, and SOME others, named above.
By Chilao
March 29, 2006 02:14 PM | Link to this
Whiley - The DaVinci Code is a great read, as a work of fiction. Recently as a result of Dan Brown’s London Court testimony, we learn how he devises books, and that was straight formula for him, he gets the major outline down in less than a day.
but as as suspenseful, crime-drama read, with some history, cloak&dagger, religion etc. fun book.
I won’t give away the punchline in that book in exactly what puts you closer to God.
But they have learned who the model was for DaVinci’s Mona Lisa. It was the DaVinci coed. ahjahahahahahaha
By Mara
March 29, 2006 02:15 PM | Link to this
Renee - love the big weight-lifter belt idea. Maybe one of those WCW rastlin’ belts? LOL!
JBM - (curtsey bob…) thank you so much. The compliment on intelligence is much appreciated coming from one so obviously well-read and accomplished. And wise. I forgot wise.
Whiley - The DaVinci Code is one of the best mystery adventures that I have read in a long time. Well researched, well written, and…as they say, a real page turner. The follow-up novel “Angels and Demons” isn’t quite as polished but is also a good read.
Jack - The story of the “Beloved apostle” being Mary Magdalene has been around for a very long time. There are reams and reams of learned text, research, supposition and thundering denunciations present in every serious theological library in the world. Dan Brown did a magnificent job of mainstreaming this rather contraversial topic, but he wasn’t the first to posit it, nor will he be the last, I’m sure. In fact, he either recently or soon will be in court defending himself in a copy-right infringement suit from a couple of authors who did a study of this in the ‘70’s (or 80’s, don’t know when exactly…) I’m looking forward to the movie.
By Chilao
March 29, 2006 02:16 PM | Link to this
I thought GOB might want his wife to play the man for a change, as he wears the tiara.
Just a thought. Something I read in a book somewhere, yeah, that’s it. LMAO
By RF
March 29, 2006 02:19 PM | Link to this
But they have learned who the model was for DaVinci’s Mona Lisa. It was the DaVinci coed.
Chilao- Ohhhhhh man you have soooo got to step away from the coffee pot, dude!!
By GOB
March 29, 2006 02:23 PM | Link to this
FM - Your last post does nothing but re-enforce the opinion of many people on here.
Stating it is a 50/50 chance - which is false and is ignorant.
All of my postitions on the blog are backed some reference
The only reference you have given regarding the chance of an abortion being a horrible, traumatic experience is that you saw them at your dad’s office. That may be a reference, but it certainly isn’t compelling.
Also, what kind of psychiatrist lets his son know what is said by his patients? That seems to violate a few ethical rules, right?
By FatMoose
March 29, 2006 02:26 PM | Link to this
FM, I don’t agree with this thinking. In my opinion you are unique — however you don’t become you until some point in your development.
I understand, yet we cannot say when that point is - and the paradox that “Its a wonderful life” scenerios presents in a topic like this can only make one think.
And, although cheesey, I think FGump was right that “it is a little of both” random and fate (very bad word for what I am trying to describe: more along the lines of inter-connectedness is my goal). But I do not know which one (randomness/uniqueness) abortion would end - only the random, or the meaningful connectedness.
Seeing as I do not know, I present the debate as far as I have taken it in my head (and with others before you all) - and do not play favorites to either side; but I do test the concept that is currently lagging to see if it can catch up. Which is why lately I have been kicking around the opposite side in which I am on.
Unlike others - I have no opinion that I am emotionally attached to; but to call names and demand validation of others opinions is not something I adhere to as healthy.
So, to continue with what we are digging at: If you do find that someone IS unique at some point in developement - should we not continually dig at when this point might be?
By Jack
March 29, 2006 02:26 PM | Link to this
This IS an opinion blog Moose. Some of us do not have the luxury to research, cut & paste, or read lengthy cut & Paste Chuck posts. People don’t debate me a lot cause they know I’m here for fun. I used to get angry. Not anymore. It is much more fun to agravate you and sit back and laugh. Call me troll, trailer trash or whatever, no matter to me.
By Bruce
March 29, 2006 02:30 PM | Link to this
Every duck! GOB just went a did it!!!!
By Chilao
March 29, 2006 02:31 PM | Link to this
RF - that was actually a PlayboyPartyJoke back when the book was hot-off-the-press, the DaVinciCoed thing. LOL
and I had that newscastle brown ale friday, then a heineken saturday, and sunday morning cooking took a big ole swig of Rumpleminze(100 proof peppermint schnapps). had to get above the stove for an appliance and there is was, staring me in the face.
But I don’t drink, I really don’t. LOL In fact that was the first alcohol since Feb 25th.
By Zack
March 29, 2006 02:40 PM | Link to this
Kimberly—Don’t use the term, “Quote this…”, especially since Chuck spoke of the Bible.
You have some serious, serious issues and are a sick and sorry individual. You hate innocent children and men, don’t you?
I gave you my e-mail address if you’d like to discuss anything.
By FatMoose
March 29, 2006 02:42 PM | Link to this
The only reference you have given regarding the chance of an abortion being a horrible, traumatic experience is that you saw them at your dad’s office. That may be a reference, but it certainly isn’t compelling.
See, here you are purely argueing. With a personal jab at the end: Also, what kind of psychiatrist lets his son know what is said by his patients? That seems to violate a few ethical rules, right? No - Not right if I have no knowledge of peoples personal info.
I did not state or intend for it to be the end-all-be-all, but a point that does prove that it is not without risks. And that point was made to show the failability (or is it fallability?) in the arguement against making it manditory to provide information to a woman with the possible outcomes.
But, people on here are emotionally attached to their opinions in a BIG way - too big of a way to debate the topics with any discovery in mind.
By Chilao
March 29, 2006 02:44 PM | Link to this
if you want to read another “What IF Jesus…” Fiction book, read Kathy Reich’s Cross Bones.(she the author-behind/producer-of Fox’s BONES show tonight) Israeli antiquities dealer in Montreal gets killed over a skeleton he got from a monastery, and the bones are from a Masada dig, but not in the record(spirited away), the Masada dig from a slightly older time (Masada around 100 A.D. I think). She (forensic anthropologist) goes to Isreal for further research about the bones and the dig and . blah blah blah.
good fiction.
By Renee
March 29, 2006 02:45 PM | Link to this
Good comment Jack. I was going to say something along those lines, but you put it so well.
This blog is to well, express opinions. Opinions shared, or not shared by a diverse group of people.
What I don’t understand FM, is if you find the blog (minus NetB and Julia and a couple other chosen ones) so inane, why do you continue to visit and post. One of your intellect, surely must find it a great waste of time to do so.
By Zack
March 29, 2006 02:47 PM | Link to this
Someone referred to this blog as an opinion blog. True, but not everyone is right. With six billion people in the world, and with each one having an opinion, and since many disagree, we know that some are right and others are wrong. (Truth is truth; it’s not what WE make it out to be.)
To the people in here who insist on saying a fetus isn’t a human being, that’s easily one of the dumbest statements ever said. If you think I’m being too blunt, I’m not being blunt enough. Murder is a serious issue, and we need to defend innocent lives. I’m far from perfect, but I have a hard time keeping quiet when people say abortion isn’t murder. (Then these people either go pay or encourage others to pay psychologists to lie and tell them that post-abortion guilt isn’t really guilt. Indeed, one lie leads to another.)
Yes, a fetus is a human being. Kimberly and her friends can come on here and say whatever they’d like, but their opinions don’t change the truth one iota.
I met a girl a while back that I was interested in…until she told me she thought abortion was a mother’s right. At that point, her sick worldview more than outweighed her cute face. This type of girl needs not to be asked out, and she wasn’t.
By Renee
March 29, 2006 02:51 PM | Link to this
Oh, RF, good idea about the hat LOL.
But, people on here are emotionally attached to their opinions in a BIG way - too big of a way to debate the topics with any discovery in mind.
Generally speaking, aren’t most people emotionally attached to their opinions. I would say there are a select (nameless lol) few, who absolutely refuse to even acknowledge that others have opinions that could possibly be right. Or acknowledge that two, three, or even four people can have differing opinions, none of which are wrong. Opinions are how people feel, based upon issues they have seen or dealt with in life, and for the most part are neither right or wrong, but hold strong emotional and/or religous ties.
By FatMoose
March 29, 2006 02:51 PM | Link to this
It is much more fun to agravate you and sit back and laugh.
I agree - that is the extent of the learning experience here.
This IS an opinion blog Moose. Right - and everyone that visits it begins by foolishly thinking that after two+ people state their opinions; you get to back them up and actually think about how it fits, or does not fit, together; and keep volleying - but most of you act like kids and call names the first time you see an opinion you do not like.
How is it the expression of disconcern for such name calling antics hurts you all more than the names? The answer is you all EXPECT the name calling - bc that is what you do and it means nothing. But invalidation of that name calling sounds too much like an adult and you call foul!
But here, it is purely about opinion - and pure opinion means nothing, except to those that need validating.
By The72John
March 29, 2006 02:51 PM | Link to this
I met a girl a while back that I was interested in…until she told me she thought abortion was a mother’s right. At that point, her sick worldview more than outweighed her cute face. This type of girl needs not to be asked out, and she wasn’t.
You know, I’d HEARD about women who date men in prison, but I’d never credited it until now. Well, it takes all kinds…
By Just Being Me
March 29, 2006 02:53 PM | Link to this
FM, there is absolutely no reason whatsoever for me to go back and forth with you. As I said before, every regular on here (friend or foe) knows that you take pleasure in making lame attempts to use “big words” (the ones that have more than 5 letters, such as your favorite “caustic”) to appear intelligent. We know that you almost always spell these words incorrectly, use them incorrectly, and have the poorest sentence structure this blog has ever seen. The regulars here know (and have called you out on it several times) that you take pleasure in engaging people in debate by making these ridiculous assertions fraught with 6th grade vocabulary words that don’t fit, and then end the debate (9 times out of ten) by saying that you are too intelligent to discuss any real topic with anyone here, and everyone is beneath you and everyone is uninformed and unintelligent except you, and you only come here to make fun of everyone else… Either that, or you say that you are reminded of why you stopped coming here, and you won’t be back. The problem is that you always come back! I’m just glad that two of our more intelligent newcomers have seen your idiotic displays for themselves.
Now, the bottom line is that until you have both a pap smear and an abortion, your opinion of either procedure is weightless and meaningless. It doesn’t mean a darned thing to any-darned-body here.
Anyway, I didn’t need to say all that. Just got carried away, as I often do. GOB said it best. Everything you say is condescending and most of it is contradictory. It is ABSOLUTELY HILARIOUS to read you calling someone else ignorant.
That is the best laugh I ever get on here.
By Renee
March 29, 2006 02:55 PM | Link to this
Okay I couldn’t resist:
Fetus (as per Merriam-Webster)
Main Entry: fe·tus Pronunciation: ‘fE-t&s Function: noun Etymology: Middle English, from Latin, act of bearing young, offspring; akin to Latin fetus newly delivered, fruitful — more at : an unborn or unhatched vertebrate especially after attaining the basic structural plan of its kind; specifically : a developing human from usually three months after conception to birth
By RF
March 29, 2006 02:55 PM | Link to this
You have some serious, serious issues and are a sick and sorry individual
Well, there’s a pleasant, christian attitude for you. That’s precisely why I don’t go to church on a regular basis. I find more and more people who treat others that way. Noone addressed you Zack, and yet you feel the need to purposefully and sinfully disrespect kimberly when she hasn’t typed a word to you today.
Geez people, this is worse than an elementary school playground sometimes. GROW-UP WHY DON’T YA?
By FatMoose
March 29, 2006 02:56 PM | Link to this
What I don’t understand FM, is if you find the blog (minus NetB and Julia and a couple other chosen ones) so inane, why do you continue to visit and post. One of your intellect, surely must find it a great waste of time to do so.
The interaction I get from a couple of the bloggers, I am occasionally surprised (like a couple weeks ago with Jack K), sometimes the kick the elevated emotions expressed gives me, and more-over: Hope
By Jack
March 29, 2006 02:56 PM | Link to this
Thank you for your opinion Zack. Don’t hold your breath waiting for Kimberly to e-mail you. You are not in her league, not even close.
By The72John
March 29, 2006 03:01 PM | Link to this
It’s even funnier when he starts bemoaning other people’s name calling…
Just go back through his recent posts over the last couple of weeks and count the insults he has thrown at other people…I believe he called Jack trailer trash, for instance? Oh, and when someone mentions HIS spelling, it’s being “the spelling police”, but he has NO problem in pointing out someone ELSES spelling mistake.
Oh, and anyone else who gets irritated and goes off on someone is just proving his superiority, but it’s ok when HE gets irritated and goes off on people.
I could go on and on, but it just encourages him. I think he needs a hug. And some warm milk. And cookies.
By GOB
March 29, 2006 03:02 PM | Link to this
But, people on here are emotionally attached to their opinions in a BIG way - too big of a way to debate the topics with any discovery in mind.
And I assume you are above this, right? I think if you were to look back over the posts on this blog from the last few weeks, the majority of posters actually do have a pretty open mind, and are willing to listen to the ideas that are brought to the table.
There are several people that are so set in their ways that nothing can make them even conceive that they may not have all the answers, but that is a pretty small minority on here.
As I said earlier, the reason people don’t debate you long is your tone. Who wants to deal with someone who has shown no ability to speak without being condescending and arrogant? Other than me apparently…
By Just Being Me
March 29, 2006 03:03 PM | Link to this
LOL Renee’s 2:45!!!!!! Good question, though. Surely he is far more intelligent than us feeble-minded imbeciles. Doesn’t MENSA have a blog? Surely their conversation is far more engaging and intelligent than ours. Why ever would he continue to subject himself to the agony of debating thought-provoking subjects with ignoramuses (or should that be ignorami) when he can go to another blog and be SURROUNDED by highly intelligent people, just like NetB. and Julia. Instead of two smart people, he would have scores of them!! What a brilliant idea, Renee!
But, people on here are emotionally attached to their opinions in a BIG way - too big of a way to debate the topics with any discovery in mind.
“Any discovery in mind” = ending the debate with the realization (discovery) that you were wrong all along and the all-knowing FM was right. How ignorant we are!!!
By Netbanker
March 29, 2006 03:04 PM | Link to this
chilao…I LOVE Betty Bowers and Landover Baptist. Just hilarious!
On the historical accuracy of the Bible…history is written by the winners. Hence it’s all a matter of perspective and the assumption that if you won God MUST have been on your side.
FM…I tend to think the way you do in regard to how far God is involved in people’s lives. I just don’t think he really is. The whole prayer before a football game thing for example…as if God actually cares which side wins a stupid game!!
About the abortion thing. I agree with you that it may be a traumatic experience for some women. Being forced to bear a child and then be forced to give it up for adoption will be a traumatic and lifelong psychologically damaging proposition for some women also. Aren’t many women wracked with guilt and wonder what happened to that little baby they never saw or that was ripped from the arms after only a few moments? What about the trauma caused to women who willingly gave up the child only to have them resurface in their life afterward? I’m not saying I support abortion (for these reasons or any other). What I’m saying is that it’s a woman’s choice and that any decision COULD result in needing a shrink based on the individual.
for something to be a “scam” doesn’t someone have to benefit from the scam and someone else has to be deceived into giving something? I think in many cases people scam themselves and are deceived into giving up autonomy and responsibility for their own lives. My example is a silly one, but true. On the Amazing Race about 2 seasons ago was a male/female couple of models who were also very religious. I don’t recall the exact challenge point, but they stopped to pray. They got the outcome they really wanted/hoped for, but went on to say if it had gone the other way they would have accepted that as either way would have been God’s will. My partner and I view that as a cop out on personal responsibility in life. No matter what happens it’s because of God no matter what you wanted/did/attempted/failed at? You’re reduced to a blessed puppet with God pulling the strings?! I’d say organized religion is a scam even if viewed as an individual can benefit by gaining a sense of non-responsibility (ie. it’s all in God’s hands no matter what I do) while at the same time they are deceiving themselves into giving up have some control over their own destiny. I just don’t think God is all that involved in our daily lives and activities while they’re happening.
By Chilao
March 29, 2006 03:04 PM | Link to this
Zack - where’s that cute-faced babe again? Might be my kinda gal. LOL
By FatMoose
March 29, 2006 03:05 PM | Link to this
JBM,
Seeing as your first words are inaccurate AND personal - it proves what I am saying about you: “big words” (the ones that have more than 5 letters, such as your favorite “caustic”) to appear intelligent.
Caustic is not a big word - for me anyways…And this answers who it was that posted anonomosly last week to me - cheap.
every regular on here (friend or foe) knows that you take pleasure in making lame attempts to use “big words”
Not unless you count 27j as everyone.
I didn’t need to say all that. Just got carried away, as I often do.
I agree - and it also re-enforces my point.
By kimberly
March 29, 2006 03:05 PM | Link to this
Hello Zack.
Don’t use the term, “Quote this…”, especially since Chuck spoke of the Bible. First, you’re not the boss of me, so don’t tell me what to do. Second, I got that from my BIBLE that I carry around in my little work bag for reference when MEN try to use it to tell me what to do. Do you dispute the accuracy of the Psalms 137:9 quote? Well, do ya?
You have some serious, serious issues and are a sick and sorry individual. Um, thanks for your compassion, brother Zack. May I trust you with my life now?
You hate innocent children and men, don’t you? Um, nope. Love kids, actually, especially my own, and have no problem with NICE men, even those with whom I sometimes disagree, like Jack. Love my Daddy too, just not you so much. Sorry.
I gave you my e-mail address if you’d like to discuss anything. Heh.
I met a girl a while back that I was interested in…until she told me she thought abortion was a mother’s right — snippage — needs not to be asked out, and she wasn’t. I dated a man for six months last year who said his faith was very important to him. He also thought a woman shouldn’t have the final say over her own body. He was a “good Christian man” and a Republican. And behind closed doors he was a SADISTIC FREAK! I mean, of the “you want me to do WHAT?” variety. I mean, even for ME! Had to break it off ‘cause he was such a hypocrite, wanted me to wait on him like a maid, criticized everything I did, and spent way to much time whining like a girl. SEE ZACK? We both have bad relationship stories. What exactly is YOUR problem today?
By chuck
March 29, 2006 03:09 PM | Link to this
KIMMIE, KIMMIE, KIMMIE,
I love it when people who know absolutely nothing about scripture try to use it to make their points. In Psalms 137 David is lamenting what has been done to Jerusalem. As part of that lamentation, he is calling for divine retribution against those who have destroyed Jerusalem. It has nothing to do with any kind of commandment by God to do that to babies. If you are going to make these insane statements you ought to at least do a little research first so you don’t sound like a fool.
By kimberly
March 29, 2006 03:14 PM | Link to this
Thanks for making my point, Chuck!!! Just because you can find a verse in the bible that supports your theory (and anyone can if they try), doesn’t make it true.
Does Chuckie get the tiara today? Hahahaha!
By The72John
March 29, 2006 03:17 PM | Link to this
Lol, no one at Mensa would be fooled by his psuedo-intelectual nonsense. He would be unmasked for the pretentious, uneducated poseur that he is. After all, it takes more than a word-of-the-day calendar and the audiobook of the Complete Works of Deepak Chopra to pull off the “I’m smarter than all of you” act in front of people who are, well, smarter than most.
By FatMoose
March 29, 2006 03:18 PM | Link to this
As I said earlier, the reason people don’t debate you long is your tone. Read the response below.
Who wants to deal with someone who has shown no ability to speak without being condescending and arrogant? I am condescending AFTER the name calling and sarcasm begins - look to every post and reply from NetB - yet you state “I have shown no ability.” And conversly, I AM condescending to those who still call names as a WAY of pushing them away bc I DONT want their input, but they keep addressing me - look to the creeping in of renee,jbm,and now j27. None of which can keep their cool if not pleased.
Other than me apparently…
You have not called any names; therefore I have no beef with you - I have resorted to name calling now three times on the blog; and each of those occured after being called names and digging through sarcasm for a number of posts.
By Agree's with Moose
March 29, 2006 03:21 PM | Link to this
Actually FM, I would have to say that the physical ramifications of the caustic cyborgs, bring an element of existence to the flux of the hypothesis being deliberated currently.
By The72John
March 29, 2006 03:25 PM | Link to this
I AM condescending to those who still call names as a WAY of pushing them away bc I DONT want their input, but they keep addressing me - look to the creeping in of renee,jbm,and now j27. None of which can keep their cool if not pleased.
LOL! It’s a public blog, FatMonkey. I’m sooo sorry to be “addressing” you, your majesty! If you don’t like it, kindly exuant stage right, post haste! Because I promise you, as long as you are here masquerading as an educated and enlightened intellectual, I will be here to ridicule you, and point out the blatant hypocrisy of your woefully unsupportable arrogance.
By FatMoose
March 29, 2006 03:27 PM | Link to this
NetB,
What I’m saying is that it’s a woman’s choice and that any decision COULD result in needing a shrink based on the individual.
We seem to agree - unless I am missing a point in your post. BC I agree that the number of ill-effected women could be low but a bill that would make it manditory to explain all the possible outcomes could ONLY be a good thing, but was shot down with hostility on the boards.
This black/white/absolute thinking is what I oppose - on any side of an arguement. It also makes me wonder if the person is actually looking for answers - or only the answers that fit into their schema.
By Renee
March 29, 2006 03:28 PM | Link to this
ummm…FM…you never deliver an unsolicited response??? This is a blog, which consists of opinions to people who do and do not want the input.
By Jack
March 29, 2006 03:31 PM | Link to this
The caustic ramifications of the physical cyborgs bring an element of hypothesis to the flux of existence being deliberated currenty.
By Julia
March 29, 2006 03:31 PM | Link to this
Hi everyone. I am sorry that work has called me away this afternoon. Yesterday I was out of work and today I’m covered up. Trying to catch up here a little bit. (Please excuse the long post.)
One of my main beefs with the bible is the whole creating of the earth in a week thing. When it’s been PROVEN that our earth is billions of years old.
Who exactly proved this…some scientists? How exactly does one prove something is a billion years old anyway?
Pontificate all you want, oh self-righteous, preacher-thumpers. Your track record SUCKS, and we have documented history to prove it!
I don’t think I’ve ever “thumped” a preacher! LOL…….Jesus Christ’s track record is perfect and flawless. (Not going into the pontificate catholic issue…too much ground to cover.) And my track record as a Christian and that of my church does not “suck” thank you very much. (I know you were not speaking personally-just thought I’d throw that in.)
*And what about the cavemen & dinosaurs? If the bible is the end all be all & knows everything, why doesn’t it discuss it? The bible seems to have remembered everything a snake in a garden said word for word, but nothing specific about the cavemen & dinosaurs? *
That really is a great question. However, the bible was never intended to include everything that happened from the beginning of earth. (How BIG a book THAT would be!!! LOL!) It does give us what we need in order to live lives pleasing to God. It does give us encouragement and valuable information. It does give us information on history. It helps with our day to day lives. It also includes prophecy. (How many of the bible prophecies have already come true?)
God has the ability, but just can’t seem to work out that hurricane problem, tornados, earthquakes, floods, disease, the common cold. And God wants to constantly test us, even killed his own kid (you’d think he’d have the power to not need that?) it’s a scam
WOW…I understand why you’re confused. God can do anything but He doesn’t force us to do what He wants. When sin entered into the picture everything changed. I don’t think God created the disease. The disease may be the natural result of unhealthy eating/chemical foods, etc. And earthquakes and the like are in biblical prophecy (like birth pains for the earth). God tests us to strengthen our faith. Tests are a part of life. Do you ever test your children? And when I have more time than I do today I will explain Jesus’ death on the cross to you if you’d like to really understand it. (Why do I have to be so covered up at work today?!)
The also removed reincarnation from the bible because they didn’t want people to give up and commit suicide when things get tough.
Who is this “they” and where in the world did you hear that? From Dan Brown?
See, that’s where I have a problem with christianity, FM. If it’s true, then why hide it? Who’s hiding anything??? I do not understand.
Why would the all-powerful, life-saving truth need to be hidden? Seems illogical to me. That’s another of man’s inventions to explain all the editing, adding, and deleting we’ve done over the millenia.
Understand that Satan wants to destroy the church and uses many clever ways to try and accomplish that. You need to go back to the original text instead of the edited bible versions that are out there by the way.
Multiple studies were done on post-abortion trauma by people who badly wanted to find some. C. Everett Koop, for one. And they didn’t.
I could show you a great number of studies that do show the P.A.S.S. trauma.
By Chilao
March 29, 2006 03:32 PM | Link to this
The Masada suicides were in 72 C.E., not long after Jesus would have been crucified, say 35 years.
By Supporter of Moose
March 29, 2006 03:33 PM | Link to this
Technically speaking, the hypotenuse of the summation of the methodology of said subject is realistically a caustic measure under which one FatMoose is accurate and the others of lesser intelligence are salacious and counterfactual to which one may or mayn’t become aware under the tenure of the great Moose.
And so we find, then, that those lunar modules who were partakers in the experiment determining the breadth of the structure proliferated under which assignment the progeneration of the propagation of the procrastination will gather their effuse and their refuse.
Do not bother with these habiliments, Oh Moose. Never shall they kumtux your vast understanding of the abortion experience. They are mere cretins, tomfools, oafs, schnooks, dullards. You art the President of Mensa. These fools are so far beneath you.
By FatMoose
March 29, 2006 03:34 PM | Link to this
Actually FM, I would have to say that the physical ramifications of the caustic cyborgs, bring an element of existence to the flux of the hypothesis being deliberated currently.
Laughed out loud at that one;) Partially bc it makes sense too.
But I put to you: What brings this “element of existence to the flux of the hypothesis” and what is this element?
By Whiley
March 29, 2006 03:35 PM | Link to this
Zack likes women?
By FatMoose
March 29, 2006 03:36 PM | Link to this
ummm…FM…you never deliver an unsolicited response??? This is a blog, which consists of opinions to people who do and do not want the input.
And I thought we agreed not to interact? That it was useless?
Lets return to that.
By GOB
March 29, 2006 03:36 PM | Link to this
I agree that the number of ill-effected women could be low but a bill that would make it manditory to explain all the possible outcomes could ONLY be a good thing
This black/white/absolute thinking is what I oppose - on any side of an arguement.
To say that something can ONLY be a good thing seems to be taking a black/white/absolute stand on the argument, dont you think?
By chuck
March 29, 2006 03:37 PM | Link to this
Actually Kimmie, it does nothing of the sort. I don’t just pull verses out of the Bible willy-nilly. When I quote scripture, it is because they apply directly to the topic being discussed. I don’t take verses out of context. I research the scripture and only apply it when it is appropriate to do so. Scripture taken out of context cannot support a point. When taken as a whole, it is easy to understand God’s Word because it is perfectly consistent. You don’t understand it because you don’t study it. You haven’t been taught how to read or study scripture.
So, while the words may have actually been found in the Bible, the meaning you attached to those words certainly cannot be found anywhere in the Bible.
By Mara
March 29, 2006 03:39 PM | Link to this
Renee - You are my “hero of the day” for 2:55 dictionary post. I wish I had thought to do that :^)
Kimberly - are you sure that the guy wasn’t Zack? LOL!!
By Chilao
March 29, 2006 03:41 PM | Link to this
Is that element on the periodic table? Let me guess, it’s a gas in its normal state.
sorry, could NOT resist. LOL
By Whiley
March 29, 2006 03:42 PM | Link to this
Julia the earth is proven to be billions of years old just on the soil (carbon?) testing. I wish I could remember exactly how/what they tested. It was a recent Discovery show. And aren’t dinosaur bones clearly at least a few million years old? The bible can quote what everybody said & did back then, but OOP forgot about all those dino’s.
By FatMoose
March 29, 2006 03:43 PM | Link to this
LOL! It’s a public blog, FatMonkey. I’m sooo sorry to be “addressing” you, your majesty! If you don’t like it, kindly exuant stage right, post haste! Because I promise you, as long as you are here masquerading as an educated and enlightened intellectual, I will be here to ridicule you, and point out the blatant hypocrisy of your woefully unsupportable arrogance.
OK.
Two posts in and there is: - Name calling (but this is different right?) - Sarcasm (but this is different right?) - And condescending tones galore (but, again, this is different right?)
Thanks for proving my point about you.
So, now j27 is confirmed along with renee, and JBM which have resorted to some level of personal attack - and who are, ironically, THE ONES that have an issue with me being condescending in replying to those atributes.
By RF
March 29, 2006 03:43 PM | Link to this
I’m just seeing my Granny’s face right now, shaking her sweet head and saying “well, bless his heart”. She usually said that in reference to this guy Rufus who wandered around her town when I was a kid mumbling about the end of the world. He just talked and talked and seemed perfectly happy in his own reality.
HEY- now I see why this blog seems so familiar to me!!!
By FatMoose
March 29, 2006 03:45 PM | Link to this
My comment the other week to Jack about living in a trailer was in response to him stating I have sick relations with my nieces/nephews, but that is different right?
By Jack
March 29, 2006 03:46 PM | Link to this
Yes I’m somewhat ignorant for asking this: Adam & Eve had to children, both male. Where did the other females come from that appeared later?
By GOB
March 29, 2006 03:47 PM | Link to this
You haven’t been taught how to read or study scripture.
What makes reading or studying the scripture different from reading or studying any other book? I mean in a real-world, looking at the pages way.
By chuck
March 29, 2006 03:50 PM | Link to this
NO While E. Coyote,
The earth has certainly NOT been PROVEN to be millions of years old. You apparently are thinking of radio carbon dating which supposedly can date objects up to several thousands of years old. I’m not going to get into the whole “age of the earth debate” again, but there are many scientists who believe that the age of the earth is MUCH younger. Since nobody was there to record it, it really cannot be proven.
By Scalia
March 29, 2006 03:52 PM | Link to this
This blog is so cyclical. It always goes back to abortion, religion, and homosexuality.
Chuck, I have to give you props. The discussion on immigrants on Monday or Tuesday was a good discussion on your part.
As for the Fatmoose thing, being a regular, yeah, JBM, etc. do have a point. At one point, your daughter was arguing with Whiley or Iozen. She called them bitter, angry women or something like that.
By Renee
March 29, 2006 03:53 PM | Link to this
Okay, I have laughed so hard today!!!! These posts are priceless!!! Hilarious!!
FM - Ummm…I haven’t personally attacked you at all. I have merely responded to some of the comments which you have made. I am allowed right??? And yes, I had chosen not to interact with you, but you provided me with an uncanny sense of entertainment today. Thanks. I may or may not respond to you any more after this.
By RF
March 29, 2006 03:53 PM | Link to this
GOB- you have to be taught (aka brainwashed) so as not to ask too many logical questions that can’t be answered. It’s a perfect document inspired by a perfect god and perfectly maintained by ignorant, sinful humans for a few thousand years. Can’t imagine how we could find anything wrong with it!!
By The72John
March 29, 2006 03:55 PM | Link to this
So, now j27 is confirmed along with renee, and JBM which have resorted to some level of personal attack - and who are, ironically, THE ONES that have an issue with me being condescending in replying to those atributes.
Actually, MooseDroppings, it’s your hypocrisy that I have a problem with. The fact that you constantly call people out for doing the same things that you regularly do.
I KNOW that I’m an arrogant, cocky, sometimes condescending, religious-fanatic-hating, argumentative, quarelsome, bad-tempered jackass on this blog. You, on the other hand, claim some high-ground that you have no business claiming, because you are also an arrogant, condescending, argumentative, quarlesome jackass.
The only real difference between you and me, besides my years of education and your years of attending Star Trek conventions, is that I can spell, put together well-constructed paragraphs, cite sources that back my arguments, and occasionally remove the stick from my a*.
By Mara
March 29, 2006 03:57 PM | Link to this
Almost quittin’ time, so instead of rebutting or commenting on Julia’s long post I’ll just say this. Not being a formal theologian this is my understanding - The Bible is a compilation of supposedly biographic and autobiographic historical stories. Some recount dreams and/or visions, some are personal accounts of things seen and experience. Compiled by the founders of what would eventually turn into the Catholic Church (and no, Dan Brown wasn’t one of them). It was these folks who decided which accounts made the cut and which didn’t. They provided translators and researchers also, which means they could adulterate the texts, add false information, or even completely ignore relevant but unpopular stories.
and to this - You need to go back to the original text instead of the edited bible versions that are out there by the way - Julia, how many laymen do you know with access to the Dead Sea scrolls and Gnostic texts? How many folks here on this blog feel up to translating the Aramaic and/or latin into english? Clever, clever satan to lock away the original manuscripts so that only people like you and Zack could ascertain the authenticity of Christianity. How droll. But as long as you are happy, more power to ya.
Outta here folks. Hugs to my blog buddies :-)
By GOB
March 29, 2006 03:58 PM | Link to this
RF - Well, now that I know that, it all makes perfect sense. It’s all coming together for me…
By FatMoose
March 29, 2006 03:59 PM | Link to this
To say that something can ONLY be a good thing seems to be taking a black/white/absolute stand on the argument, dont you think?
I was talking about information - so no, more (accurate) information is always a good thing.
So, you think that the omission of information pertaining to a situation you are can be benign or good? I agree that it could make a decision more difficult - but I would always think that a more difficult decision but informed is better than easy/misinformed.
By Chilao
March 29, 2006 04:03 PM | Link to this
Whiley - com’on man, get with the program, the first chapter of Genesis is no longer to be considered literal fact, it is merely Symbolism for the beginnigs.
And to answer Jack’s (again, LOL) comment about the two sons, no, they did not have incestous relations with the mom(Eve) or sisters, they reproduced with the next tribe over, that were not part of this Symbolism thing.
That is at least how it(Genesis I) has been adjusted in my life-time, as science learns more and more. I actually heard a rabbi on TV discussing the fact that the Adam/Eve story was now merely Symbolic. Went against everything I had ever been taught, but heh, I’m flexible. LOL
By GOB
March 29, 2006 04:06 PM | Link to this
FM - I wasnt arguing your point in my response, just pointing out how in one sentence you claim that something (and it really doesnt matter what it is you are claiming - could be that the sky is blue) could ONLY be good, but your very next sentence says you have problems with people making things black/white/absolute issues “on any side of an argument.”
Just pointing out an interesting argument you made…
By Jack
March 29, 2006 04:07 PM | Link to this
John you do realize credibility is lost when you call names.
Moose. I was out of line with that comment about the relationship between you and your nieces. Sorry.
By Julia
March 29, 2006 04:08 PM | Link to this
Whiley-there are creatures in the bible such as behemoth and leviathan (sp?). Maybe one of these were referring to dinosaurs. Will have to research that one.
By Confused
March 29, 2006 04:12 PM | Link to this
Moose, don’t you know that you’re not supposed to defend yourself or fight fire with fire. What’s good for the goose…well, the gander doesn’t like!!!!!!!!
By Jack
March 29, 2006 04:17 PM | Link to this
You mean what’s good for the Moose! LOL
By lozen
March 29, 2006 04:18 PM | Link to this
Watch out people! FatMoose is gonna get his teenage daughters on here in a few minutes to show you just how stupid you are. I’m sure they’re laughing at you already!
By Jack
March 29, 2006 04:21 PM | Link to this
Chilao. That question was for Chuck, Zack or Randy. Mainly Chuck. Dig Chuck dig.
By The72John
March 29, 2006 04:21 PM | Link to this
Moose, don’t you know that you’re not supposed to defend yourself or fight fire with fire. What’s good for the goose…well, the gander doesn’t like!!!!!!!!
As usual, the lurker-known-as-confused draws a poor conclusion. As I’ve said, I’ve no objection to people defending themselves or fighting fire with fire. I DO have objections to people who are fighting fire with fire claiming they have no fire, and criticizing others who are also using fire.
Duh.
By Nikita
March 29, 2006 04:24 PM | Link to this
Chirren, chirren. Is all this rancor really necessary?
FM and chuck and everyone else — we can examine when a fully-dependent, non-cognizant, biological entity may or may not become someone, and what the chances are at any given point of that entity progressing to birth. And that would certainly inform my decision about whether or not to seek termination of a pregnancy if I were pregnant, and should inform the guidelines that physicians follow when they give women care.
However, these issues would not change my mind about a woman’s right to choose whether or not she will bear a child. Because legal recognition of a fetus at any stage of development as having rights that a woman does not have — which is to say the right to self-determination, to health, to privacy in medical care, to kindness and respect and support — I cannot support. The fact is that women deserve to be treated as all other individuals on this planet. They don’t deserve to be institutionally denied their fundamental rights because other people have decided that while they don’t necessarily place any value on women, they place the utmost value on the contents of their wombs.
By Julia
March 29, 2006 04:24 PM | Link to this
Mara-I will get back with you on a few things tomorrow. I know it’s almost quittin’ time and also almost time for this blog to shut down for the night. You posed some good questions and I look forward to blogging with you tomorrow.
Jack-I still can’t bring myself to go back to Taco Bell! LOL
FM-Thanks for the encouraging words. I appreciate it.
Where did JBM go? Maybe she can help with some of the bible questions as well. (I really hope work is slow tomorrow!)
By FatMoose
March 29, 2006 04:29 PM | Link to this
Just pointing out an interesting argument you made…
I was specifically refering to “people making things black/white/absolute issues “on any side of an argument;” not a fact.
Read the blog today and see how many names I spewed; or deliberate sarcasm. At which point should I consider this inane? Really, the above should be understood by someone of decent intelligence, but you deliberately chose not to understand the point or truely do not understand it.
So at this point I get to make a judgement call on whether you were being condescending, or ignorant. It is that simple and not meant to be hurtfull, although it may be (I cannot control others feelings). I tend to choose that the person is ignorant since that is the lesser of the evils.
To wrap this up - I have recieved nothing from this last volley, although I understand your point that “the sky is blue” is an absolute statement that is also correct. There is no reason, for me at least, to go through the hoops we have in order to understand that point - and more-over, it sheds no light on the topic in which was being discussed nor a new one.
In my normal circles, the person I am debating with would simply state that “You know there are absolute facts like sky is blue.” And I would reply, “Yes, yet I am making a point regarding HOW one thinks as a theme, not about one single item.” And then we could have continued the remaining 45min talking about SOMETHING NEW.
By Monica
March 29, 2006 04:30 PM | Link to this
Wow! I think all of us can agree on one thing: we all have lots to say!
Whiley, I don’t know if you would like to hear my explanation of why the Earth has been proven to be billions of years old, but here goes…
According to Genesis, God made the birds of the air and the animals to roam the Earth. He made man and woman. He did not place eggs to hatch, or create a boy and a girl. If He created man instead of boy, and birds instead of eggs, it stands to reason that He also made the Earth “old.” He made rivers and riverbeds with evidence of years of erosion. He created mountains instead of hills that formed after millions of years.
Of course, I have no proof to substantiate this, just my “logic” - take it for what you think it’s worth. I’m not asking you to believe it; I just wanted to tell you what I believe.
I love the beauty of free will. It’s ironic but I could describe myself as pro-choice as well: the choice to follow Christ or the choice not to follow Christ.
RF and Net, I think the importance of church is to surround yourself with others who accepted Christ and to strive to be more like him. To make a Forest Gumpish statement: Mama said that the best way to stay out of trouble is to avoid situations that will get you into trouble. If I surround myself with people who are trying to emulate Christ, then maybe my chances of messing up will go down (unless you hang with the preacher’s kid - ha ha). I don’t think that you will go to Hell if you don’t go to church; conversely, going to church doesn’t guarantee you a spot in Heaven. That’s God’s place to judge, not anyone elses.
So why are there so many hypocrits in church? Because all church members are imperfect humans who attempt to follow Christ.
Sorry for the long post; I hope some of you see why I go to church and believe in Christ.
By Justin
March 29, 2006 04:30 PM | Link to this
I am behind this week…
Chuck, you were right on target with your March 28, 2006 12:12 p.m. post!
By The72John
March 29, 2006 04:41 PM | Link to this
So, Justin…Chuck was “right on target”? Let’s look at just one part of that right-wing rant.
The illegals who take those jobs work OFF THE BOOKS for less money. They depress wages and YES, they increase the unemployment and UNDEREMPLOYMENT of Americans. I haven’t seen the studies that give actual numbers but I have heard those studies referred to on GMA and other news programs
Chuck’s version seems to place the blame on those darn illegals…now, do you think we should be blaming the guy who is just looking for a job, or the AMERICAN who is recruiting workers off the books to save money and line his own pocket?
Who is responsible for those jobs being lost?
By FatMoose
March 29, 2006 04:43 PM | Link to this
Nikita,
My voting position is Pro-choice; my ethical position is that we must always keep our finger on the pulse regarding this topic and I see that many people, on both sides, reel at this notion.
j27, I do not do what you guys do - Jack could back me on this if he chose to, but that is the issue I have with him: he does not do what he knows is right in certain situations to mitigate the emotion fallout that will reign (on purpose) on him. That is NOT what a man does, to use his arguement.
There is proof on each day’s blog of you spouting names and sarcasm. Your first week on here was a string of posts on how intelligent you were while being condescending from the get go - I resort to names rarely and last. But I do resort to, “ok, you cannot have this converastion bc you have too much emotional attachment to the topic still” quite frequently on here; and accurately if your calling names in the first 3 replies, or using ALL CAPS for your whole post (JBM/Renee).
We should duel sometime on wow - might be fun.
By Julia
March 29, 2006 04:43 PM | Link to this
If anyone wants to know more about the bible origin and translations check out this website:
http://www.obtflusa.org/Files/UnderstandingThePresentationandPreservationofGod’s_Word.htm
There are so many aspects of this issue I want to comment on but there simply isn’t the time or the room on this blog to go into. I will try to keep from the cut and paste stuff and just give links for you to check out if interested.
And I will try and condense some things for you tomorrow. I hope everyone has a great evening.
(And Jack, I’ll try and answer your question as well.):)
By Chilao
March 29, 2006 04:45 PM | Link to this
Sorry Jack. LOL (on the Zack/etc question)
that was one of my Mom’s more difficult questions from me. LOL
By Just Being Me
March 29, 2006 04:47 PM | Link to this
Okay, let me make something clear. I don’t dislike FM. There is one person and one person only that I dislike on this blog, and I think we all know who that is.
That said, I think there are about five categories of people here, as it relates to intelligence: there are the people who are obviously intelligent (ex. RF), those who are of average intelligence (ex. Me :-)), those who are obviously unintelligent (Michael H.), those who many feel are unintelligent (ex. Randy), and those who haven’t really contributed enough to any discussion to show whether or not they are intelligent (ex. any newbie). Of course, this is all my opinion, hence my use of the phrase “I think.”
My problem with FM is only that he almost always makes these really broad, sweeping generalizations like “simpletons will ask….” or “none of the people here know how to debate…,” etc. Those comments are obviously condescending, and often times unprovoked. What’s worse, in my opinion, is that FM is not exceptionally intelligent. At best, he has average intelligence, but loves to call people unintelligent, and at the very same time, in the very same breath, berates namecallers for calling names!
I don’t know if there is ONE SINGLE person here that can say that they haven’t sensed the condescending tone in FM’s writing in a place where it was totally unprovoked.
I don’t know if there is one person here that hasn’t heard all the nonsense about “the only reason I come here is to get my daily entertainment…” etc.
Like my mom always said, and I believe I’ve said the same to satan, “everybody can’t be wrong, baby.” Every time I got in trouble for talking in class, I would swear that I wasn’t talking. I believed in my heart that my teachers were just out to get me… that they hated me or wanted (for some reason that, at the time, made all the sense in the world) to get me in trouble. Well, Mom would always say, “All* the teachers can’t be out to get you. All the teachers can’t be wrong.”
John’s delivery may be questionable, but I don’t think anyone here would question his intelligence. John is clearly one of the more intelligent folks here. Renee is also intelligent. I’m reasonably intelligent. Gob is highly intelligent, as are Mara, and Scalia.
Those are just a few of the folks that agree about FM. I guess we’re alllllllll wrong.
By The72John
March 29, 2006 04:52 PM | Link to this
j27, I do not do what you guys do - Jack could back me on this if he chose to, but that is the issue I have with him: he does not do what he knows is right in certain situations to mitigate the emotion fallout that will reign (on purpose) on him. That is NOT what a man does, to use his arguement.
Actually, you are being disingenous yourself. If you review, you will see that I lose my cool only over certain topics and generally only with a certain type of person. You CHOOSE to characterize my every post this way because it suits your purposes. Selective reading.
By Just Being Me
March 29, 2006 04:54 PM | Link to this
All caps? When have I done that? Actually, I prefer to make use of bold and italics, and when it’s really necessary, my personal favorite: the bold, italic. :-)
Julia, I’m right here. What were Mara’s questions? Pleeeeease don’t make me scroll up and read ‘em!! LOL! You know I have ADD!
By FatMoose
March 29, 2006 05:01 PM | Link to this
Just Being Me,
“You may be right, I may be crazy; but it just may be a lunitic you are looking for” is more accurate though.
Or it could be that you people that call names and use sarcasm as a means of communication have an alliance of a sort, which is natural in these random settings, in order to justify each others actions. For example, the Whiley/Jack or the JBM/Renee symbiotic - like alcoholics at a bar: “Youre great JBM,” “Youre great too Renee…” “See we have no problems!” “No, we surely do not! Gulp.”
By Whiley
March 29, 2006 05:03 PM | Link to this
Chuck, dino’s were around MUCH earlier than the when the bible’s version of the world happened. And why is all of a sudden parts of the bible not meant to be taken literal, but other parts are WORD FOR WORD.(only when you can’t answer a question?) For instance the beginning, or about the dinos, the soil tests that PROOVE time. I wasn’t saying it WAS carbon dating, but something like that, just can’t remember exactly what it was called.
By lozen
March 29, 2006 05:03 PM | Link to this
Nikita, your 4:24 post was excellent. Whiley, yours from yesterday where you stated you are always for women was super also. Julia, you seem like a nice woman but … you can claim the bible is truth/great until the cows come home and it won’t change the facts. The bible is a collection of myths and folktales about the Hebrews and the early days of christianity. Those tales have been translated (incorrectly) many, many times. A group of bishops decided in the early days of catholicism which books to leave in and which to leave out. They also made the decision to claim that Mary was a virgin although there had been much debate among different groups of christians about that up until then. (The book of Philip which they left out is by far the most intelligent of all of those early books IMO..) In those myths women are treated like slaves, spoken of as totally insignificant, and the bible has been used against us in every step we have taken toward freedom and equality. The bible is very bad for women especially and we should stay away from it. It is filled with yahweh’s people slaughtering other groups of people to his pleasure. It is filled with ideas that any grammar school child now knows cannot be based on truth. It is filled with god striking people dead because they ask a question or don’t do what the big old mean daddy/judge told them to do. BTW, questioning Mara’s spirit is quite silly when yours can so easily be questioned.
By Netbanker
March 29, 2006 05:09 PM | Link to this
I’m going to have to side with RF on the ‘hidden truth’ thing. The only reasons to hide a truth or to make it a matter of faith are CONTROL and POWER. Those who know the secret to where/how the truth is hidden control access to it which immediately gives them power.
I think there is a great misperception in the Christian community about the beginnings of the religion being harmonious. We seem to think that it was only the Reformation that resulted in the numerous Protestant variations on faith. If one looks at the gnostic gospels and variations in ‘the church’ prior to Roman Catholic domination and revision of The Bible and church doctrine one sees that the church was more like a shrub than the ‘tree’ we know of today. There were many variations on belief and greater inclusion of women than is accepted today. Of course the Christian religions of today were ‘birthed’ from the Catholic Church was is a patriartical organization. Are we so naive as to think that they wouldn’t have changed a few things to make sure that grip on power was firm? Just look at the history of that group with the introduction of personal confession to a priest and the selling of indulgences or even to the sexual abuse cover up scandal of our present times and we’re to HONESTLY believe that this organization hasn’t ALWAYS been self-serving?
I must admit that I find if very odd that there is a roughly 20 year gap in the life Jesus between the ages of 12 (on the steps of the temple) and when he hit the big time. It would also be completely at odds culturally that he wasn’t married or have children. The Bible doesn’t really say anything about his personal life. How could he truly have been sent by God to have the full human experience without having had sex, known the love of a spouse, known what it is like to have children, etc? Are we to really believe that he lived through 33 years as a Virgin himself?
By Jack
March 30, 2006 07:29 AM | Link to this
“Jack could back me on this if he chose to, but that is the issue I have with him: he does not do what he knows is right in certain situations to mitigate the emotion fallout that will reign (on purpose) on him. That is NOT what a man does, to use his arguement.”
Moose. Please splain.
By Jack
March 30, 2006 07:53 AM | Link to this
Well I re-read it. Moose, I don’t like to argue religion very much because it is futile. I’m here for fun. Many times I start to respond to something and I hit delete because I know it would be for naught. I’ve let other posters get me angry and it’s not worth it. I AM a man and would prefer to “do what is right” in person and not on a blog. People are a whole lot different in person than on the phone or net. I doubt you or John are so caustic in person. (if you were you would be well versed in fisticuffs) BTW I am not afraid of any emotional fallout unless it comes from the Mrs.
By Brian Curtis
March 30, 2006 07:57 AM | Link to this
When did “Woman-to-Woman” get retitled “Chuck’s Personal Preaching Grounds for Missionaries in Training”?
And Chuck… you’re not doing too well in the course. Better hope Jesus grades on a curve.
By Monica
March 30, 2006 08:28 AM | Link to this
Can’t stay long today. I’m already feeling pathetic about myself because I am on Spring Break and am blogging!!
Net, RF, et al… I only skimmed through the posts yesterday, so I don’t know the entire discussion, but I don’t believe in a hidden truth. I believe that accepting Christ as your savior is what saves you. Christ said, I am the way, the truth, and the life. No man comes to the father except through me” (John 14:6). If there is someone who claims that there is a hidden truth and that you have to go to church to get it, he or she is misinformed. Other apostles said that faith without works is dead, meaning that if you believe in God then you will want to do good in His name, but there is no other truth but Christ.
I can understand your skepticism, Net. I can honestly say…I don’t know. I do know that it is possible for a person to reach adulthood and be a virgin! It is VERY difficult, but it is possible! I was a virgin when I married at 25! So it’s not out of the question to think that Jesus abstained from sex. As for the family/wife, I can’t answer that because I honestly don’t know. But I don’t see that as important in the scheme of things.
Hope y’all have a great Thursday and Friday - we are off to enjoy our Break. :)
By Whiley
March 30, 2006 08:39 AM | Link to this
Don’t forget the whole virgin Mary deal. Mary had sex without being married & got pregnant. Somebody came up with that “pregnant by God” thing so she wouldn’t be stoned to death. Actually that was a pretty clever cover, considering people back then would believe in anything.
By Just Being Me
March 30, 2006 09:02 AM | Link to this
Or it could be that you people that call names and use sarcasm as a means of communication have an alliance of a sort, which is natural in these random settings, in order to justify each others actions. For example, the Whiley/Jack or the JBM/Renee symbiotic - like alcoholics at a bar: “Youre great JBM,” “Youre great too Renee…” “See we have no problems!” “No, we surely do not! Gulp.”
Uhh, yeah. Renee, John and I sit around encouraging one another to make up false claims about you, and then we justify those false claims and encourage each other’s denial about how unintelligent we really are. Yep. Then, we decided to strongarm Scalia, Gob and Mara, forcing them to come to the “Let’s-randomly-pick-a-highly-intelligent-blogger-to-lie-on; Let’s-tell-everyone-he’s-unintelligent-and-condescending-even-though-the-records-show-the-exact-opposite” party. That’s exactly how it happened. You are SO smart to have figured that one out.
By The72John
March 30, 2006 09:05 AM | Link to this
To be fair, Jack, in real life no one says the kinds of things that bring out the “caustic” side, either. My conservative Christian co-workers know I’m gay, and they like me anyway. By the same token, I don’t go up and tell them what I think about religion. Because I know them as people and not as a faceless representative of a particular political philosophy, we treat each other like people. Why, I bet even ole Chuck doesn’t prosyletize to his co-workers and berate any gay colleagues he may have.
By Just Being Me
March 30, 2006 09:08 AM | Link to this
Jack:
j27, I do not do what you guys do - Jack could back me on this if he chose to, but that is the issue I have with him: he does not do what he knows is right in certain situations to mitigate the emotion fallout that will reign (on purpose) on him. That is NOT what a man does, to use his arguement.
I don’t think he was talking about the abortion or religious argument.
It was one of those “you people” sort of remarks… just like all the other ones. He was saying to John that he does not call names like “you people” do, and that you, Jack, could back him on that if you weren’t so spineless and afraid of the backlash that would come from all your fellow big, bad, gun-totin’ bloggers. He went on to say that this is the problem he has with you; that you will not take his side when you know he is right because you are fearful of the emotion[al] fallout (whatever the heck that is) that will occur.
By Just Being Me
March 30, 2006 09:17 AM | Link to this
If I read the word “caustic” one more time…
By Chilao
March 30, 2006 09:21 AM | Link to this
Hope y’all have a great Thursday and Friday - we are off to enjoy our Break. :)
Monica really off to Spring Break instead of that Bloggers Anonymous meeting? She is definitely addicted. LOL But the kids do need a fun spring break don’t they, wouldn’t be any fun for them at a BA meeting.
to comment on the current train here, some people take both this blog and probably their life as well, WAY TOO SERIOUSLY. “just” my $0.02. (And I can probably relate since I used to be much younger, and more serious and more retentive…… LMAO)
By Chilao
March 30, 2006 09:24 AM | Link to this
That word (adj)
Synonyms: corrosive, acid, acidic, corroding, burning Synonyms: sarcastic, scathing, mordant, astringent, cutting, biting, acerbic, acid, razor-sharp, unkind
Antonym: gentle
now that’s a new one, MORDANT. back to encarta for me. LOL
By The72John
March 30, 2006 09:25 AM | Link to this
JBM, that caustic remark was uncalled for. If we want to use the word caustic in a post, then we are going to use the word caustic. I feel that you are being very caustic by objecting so caustically to the use of the word caustic. What is it about “caustic” that brings out this caustic side of you? Please, I hope that in the future you will be a little less caustic when confronted with caustic people who choose to use the word “caustic” when the circumstances call for it.
I’m just curious about the kind of reaction you have to caustic. When someone says caustic, does it cause a tic, or does it just flat out infuriate you? I realize that I’m being caustic here, but I feel that my defense of the word caustic is justifiable.
By Chilao
March 30, 2006 09:27 AM | Link to this
mor·dant [ máwrd’nt ]
adjective
Definitions: 1. sarcastic: sharply sarcastic or scathingly critical 2. corrosive: having a corrosive effect
noun (plural mor·dants) Definitions: 1. industry substance that fixes dyes: a substance that fixes a dye in and on textiles or leather by combining with the dye to form a stable insoluble compound lake 2. graphic arts acid used in etching: a corrosive substance used to etch treated areas on a metal plate
[15th century. < French, present participle of mordre “to bite” < Latin mordere]
By FatMoose
March 30, 2006 09:28 AM | Link to this
NetB,
Let me explain what I was refering to when I said god is hidden: I am not saying, nor think that, god plays hide/seek. What I think that the verses that refer to this are saying is simpley that people will change the bible for their own agenda, but one can still find the truth in it. The same goes for beatles lyrics and art - there is truth within, but you will have to look and it will always reflect the origin.
It most closly follows chaos theory in that whatever creates an event can be seen in some form throughout the process. And therefore, no matter what humans do to use divitity as a personal vehical, it will always retain some echos of the original message.
By Just Being Me
March 30, 2006 09:29 AM | Link to this
LOL @ Chilao’s “that word”
Hey I learned something today. I didn’t know astringent was anything more than that stuff I put on my face after I wash it.
Acerbic was a 6th or 7th grade vocab word.
By Renee
March 30, 2006 09:32 AM | Link to this
LOL John
By Jack
March 30, 2006 09:35 AM | Link to this
Chilao. Your .02 is worth more than many others .02.
JBM & John. Love you both.
By Just Being Me
March 30, 2006 09:43 AM | Link to this
Okay, on a more serious note. I probably am guilty of taking life way too seriously most days. And though there are definitely a couple of people here who get under my skin, there’s only been one person that has caused me to take this blog seriously.
I think it’s pretty clear where I stand on most issues related to religion. I take my relationship with Christ very seriously, and I take my calling in life very seriously. Accordingly, I take every opportunity to share the love of Christ seriously. When I see someone compromising my ability to introduce others to the person that miraculously changed me, I take that seriously too. It doesn’t annoy me, or get under my skin - it hurts me deeply (even if that person is an anonymous, faceless character on a local blog).
I’ve said it before, and I’ll say it again. I have shed tears over some of the things that have been said on this silly little blog. I have lost sleep over people misrepresenting the Christ that I know. I strive daily to encourage and uplift people who may not have true joy and may not have ever known true peace. I strive to motivate, strengthen, edify, build up, comfort and enlighten believers and non-believers alike, to the best of my ability. And, it really sucks to have someone come along and undo all of my work with the pointing of one judgmental finger or the throwing of one stone.
So, yes. I admit I do take this blog too seriously at times.
By Chilao
March 30, 2006 09:45 AM | Link to this
Thank you, Jack. I generally in life, and on this blog, try to stay out of any animosity-related stuff. think we get enough of that in the world. LOL(sorta)
By Jack
March 30, 2006 09:47 AM | Link to this
It causes a tic with me. I hate that.
By Just Being Me
March 30, 2006 09:47 AM | Link to this
AAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRGGGGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!
~shaking uncontrollably~
By Just Being Me
March 30, 2006 09:48 AM | Link to this
AAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRGGGGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!
~shaking uncontrollably~
By Just Being Me
March 30, 2006 09:51 AM | Link to this
Reminds me of when we were younger, my parents would give my sisters and I a “word of the week” and we’d get a gold star sticker every time we used it in a sentence correctly. You can imagine how tired a person could grow of hearing 5 girls using the word “pauper” in various sentences every day for a week…
By RF
March 30, 2006 09:51 AM | Link to this
Could you guys PLEASE come and teach my ninth graders some vocabulary??
JBM- what you gon’ do, slap somebody for ‘that word’?? LOL I got my face popped good at the kitchen table when I was 21 for using “THE word” in my momma’s house (starts with an F- and you can guess the rest). My head spun like a top!!
By Just Being Me
March 30, 2006 09:52 AM | Link to this
Jack, love you too, man
By Renee
March 30, 2006 09:53 AM | Link to this
JBM?????
Maybe a blogging vacation is in order??? LOL
By Renee
March 30, 2006 09:53 AM | Link to this
No love for me Jack????
By chuck
March 30, 2006 09:54 AM | Link to this
In response to Justin you said:
Chuck’s version seems to place the blame on those darn illegals…now, do you think we should be blaming the guy who is just looking for a job, or the AMERICAN who is recruiting workers off the books to save money and line his own pocket?
That statement is a little bit disengenuous, because you know that I answered that in a post on the 27th in direct response to you. My exact words were:
72john, I don’t take the position that you assume…I think companies who knowingly OR unknowingly hire illegal aliens should be PROSECUTED. I think EVERY agency that receives ANY federal money should be required to report illegals. Every CITIZEN should be required to report illegals.
So yes, those comments were RIGHT ON TARGET. Thanks Justin.
By RF
March 30, 2006 09:57 AM | Link to this
uh-oh!! JBM’s got the spirit again. Look out folks, she’s ‘bout to be rolling in the aisle!!
That, or she just finished her tax return and found out just how much Uncle Sam is demanding!! LOL
By Whiley
March 30, 2006 09:59 AM | Link to this
I thought we were supposed to be blogging about body fat.
?
By RF
March 30, 2006 10:00 AM | Link to this
Soooo, did anyone hear about Cynthia McKinney?? She finally got rid of the Princess Leia hairdo, and a capitol security guard didn’t recognize her and chased her down for bypassing the metal detectors. Ms. McKinney proceeded to punch the guard!!
By Chilao
March 30, 2006 10:01 AM | Link to this
JBM - I cannot find
AAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRGGGGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!
in encarta. even tried without the exclamation marks.
LMAO (NO, I’m not THAT stupid)
By Chilao
March 30, 2006 10:02 AM | Link to this
Whiley - that was Monday morning. Okay, I’ll stop, actually have work to do.
By Just Being Me
March 30, 2006 10:06 AM | Link to this
Hey, y’all wanna play a game to lift some of this seriousness?
We used to play it at sleepovers when I was a teen, but it’s still kinda fun.
You can play with a variation of questions, so for example, the question could be “What’s grosser than gross?” And a person answers the question, and then asks “What’s grosser than that?” And you just keep on answering the question until you get bored with that one.
Another question is “What’s more embarassing than embarassing?” The first person answers, and then asks, “What’s more embarassing than that?”
Or, what’s funnier than funny?
Or, what tastes nastier than nasty?
By Just Being Me
March 30, 2006 10:07 AM | Link to this
What’s grosser than gross?
Sliding down a ten foot razor blade and landing in a pool of alcohol.
What’s grosser than that?
By Just Being Me
March 30, 2006 10:10 AM | Link to this
RF, when I looked up, and I seed Cynthia, I knowed dat dey is a God!!!! LOL! A little Color Purple humor! Seriously though, when I saw that she finally got a new ‘do, I raised my hands and shouted out praises to God above!!!!
By The72John
March 30, 2006 10:11 AM | Link to this
That’s great, Chuck, but perhaps you could try responding to the actual portion I quoted?
The fact remains that your postings on that topic consistently place blame on the illegal immigrants, not on those who are employing them and bringing them in to the country. For all of your claims of Christian charity, you treat those people with the same scorn and disdain that you treat everyone else.
I, on the other hand, believe that people are people, regardless of their nationality and possesion of a green card. While I agree that having undocumented people in this country is a serious problem, my solution is not to clap people in irons and ship them back to the poverty they were trying to escape. Rather, I think we need to do what we can to discourage additional undocumented people from pouring in, and try to document the ones that are here already. Get them into the system, paying taxes, etc.
Your way is to dismiss them all as hardened criminals and throw the book at them. Which do you think Jesus would do, Chuck?
By Just Being Me
March 30, 2006 10:11 AM | Link to this
Chilao, everybody knows that Encarta has a 12% error rate. Duh!!! You should’ve looked in Merriam Webster.
By Renee
March 30, 2006 10:18 AM | Link to this
I read about that. She looks soooo much better! So much better!!!
By Chilao
March 30, 2006 10:22 AM | Link to this
Encarta cannot have any error rate, think it is by Microsoft and they KNOW WHAT WE WANT, remember?
somehow a new car stalling in the middle of the interstate, during rush hour, comes to mind, but we DID want that, didn’t we? LOL
I’ll have to add Merriam’s to my reference fave folder.
By Jack
March 30, 2006 10:28 AM | Link to this
Renee’. I love you too. (and all the other fine ladies on this blog)
For all of you: XOXOXOXOXOXOXOXOXOX!
By Jack
March 30, 2006 10:29 AM | Link to this
I do have a favorite and she knows who she is. :)
By The72John
March 30, 2006 10:31 AM | Link to this
Oh geeze, it’s a love fest. I’m outta here…
;-)
By FatMoose
March 30, 2006 10:32 AM | Link to this
Get them into the system, paying taxes, etc.
FYI - NPR had an analyst that stated that the notion that getting undocumented people into the system so they contribute taxes will actually cost us 3x the amount they are costing us now bc the amount of taxes they would provide would be greatly outweighed by the social services used by them.
Plus, we gave amnesty to 1.3mil in something like 1986 and all it did was spur on more immigrant to come here illegally. It increased the number of undocumented people to the tune of 6x within 3yrs.
The only solution I have heard that actually has NOT been attempted is long term enforcement of the laws we currently have to mitigate undocumented people from coming/staying through attrition and beefing up out borders.
Further info that is interesting: The US currently has 1.6mil people in the same education/class ranking as undocumented aliens that have given up totally on finding a job bc the jobs they are fit for pay below minimum wage BC the undocumented aliens run DOWN the acceptable $/hour.
This also translates into a company not having to be as efficient in other areas, therefore skewing fairness in the capitalist market and hurting other industries also.
By RF
March 30, 2006 10:37 AM | Link to this
What’s grosser than that?? How about falling a tub of superglue, climbing out and then falling in a tub of cow manure?
What’s grosser than that?
JBM/Renee- sho ‘nuf the girl needed a new ‘do!! I almost didn’t recognize her! Apparently neither did the capitol guard who grabbed her and got himself punched!! I mean really, who in their right mind would grab a sister by the arm and NOT expect to get flat knocked OUT?? LOLOL
By chuck
March 30, 2006 10:42 AM | Link to this
For someone who claims to be so intelligent, you sure ACT dense sometimes john. The point is The person to blame is the one(or two) who break(s) the law. If it is against the law to enter the country without permission, then you blame the person who entered without permission. If it is against the law to hire someone who entered without permission, then you blame the one who hired the person who entered without permission. I think BOTH are to blame. Is that clear enough?
As for what Jesus would do? It is answered in His Word:
Romans 13:1 Everyone must submit himself to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established. The authorities that exist have been established by God.
By Just Being Me
March 30, 2006 10:43 AM | Link to this
Ewwwwww RF!!! I doubt anyone can top that one!
By Renee
March 30, 2006 10:46 AM | Link to this
RF - she was looooooooong overdue for a makeover!!!! She looks fantastic and damn near unrecognizable.
By chuck
March 30, 2006 10:46 AM | Link to this
OH, and BTW, I don’t think they should be treated like “hardened criminals”. In fact, if you look back at my posts, the only thing that I have said is that they should be prosecuted. (This is called “due process”) If it is determined that they broke our laws, they should be returned to their country of origin. Simple as that. No vats ov boiling oil or hanging them by their thumbs…just follow the law.
By Archie
March 30, 2006 10:49 AM | Link to this
The McKinney incident is another example of where this exception-to-the-rules comes into play. Members of Congress should walk thru the checkpoint and have some identification because the guards at work that day maybe new to the job!!! Also members of Congress are human so they can get stupid too. I don’t live in Atlanta so I probably would have stopped the sista’ and I’m a brotha’. Everybody black,white,or green follow the rules and you don’t have chaos.
By GOB
March 30, 2006 10:50 AM | Link to this
Romans 13:1 Everyone must submit himself to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established. The authorities that exist have been established by God.
Does that mean god put Hitler in power? Maybe he really does blame the jews for what happened to Jesus….joking…
Is anyone really surprised that Paul wrote this, considering he was in the process of establishing his own authority over the christian churches.
By Julia
March 30, 2006 10:50 AM | Link to this
Hi everyone.
Some of the things from Fear Factor are coming to mind! LOL (Did you see some of the things those people had to EAT???)
By RF
March 30, 2006 10:56 AM | Link to this
Archie- I bet she’s got a mean right hook!
By RF
March 30, 2006 10:59 AM | Link to this
GOB- I think Jim Jones used that same line of reasoning, and well, we all know better now than to drink the Kool-Aid!!
Julia- OH I would have sooooo thrown-up. Trump himself couldn’t pay me enough to eat bugs or worms!! I couldn’t watch the show because it made me gag!!
By Mara
March 30, 2006 11:00 AM | Link to this
what’s grosser than that? - a cannibal passing his brother on the road?
By FatMoose
March 30, 2006 11:01 AM | Link to this
Julia,
(Did you see some of the things those people had to EAT???)
The thing that grossed me out the most was the deep-fried NY rats (hair, head, tail and all) which was then blended into a thick and chunky Rat-Shake that they had to chug down.
By The72John
March 30, 2006 11:04 AM | Link to this
Plus, we gave amnesty to 1.3mil in something like 1986 and all it did was spur on more immigrant to come here illegally. It increased the number of undocumented people to the tune of 6x within 3yrs.
Again, correlation does not equal causality. One can’t assume that because an influx of illegal immigrants followed Reagan’s amnesty that the same would happen were amnesty to be granted today. If we did work on increasing border security and enforcing immigration standards, an influx could be avoided or at least mitigated.
FYI - NPR had an analyst that stated that the notion that getting undocumented people into the system so they contribute taxes will actually cost us 3x the amount they are costing us now bc the amount of taxes they would provide would be greatly outweighed by the social services used by them.
I missed the last part of the segment on immigration last night, but I have to assume that this was the conclusion of one analyst? Since you mentioned chaos theory earlier, you must know that predicting the behavior of a complex system is more an exercise in identifying probabilities than in stating absolute outcomes. Two analysts with the same data could arrive at widely divergent conclusions.
Further info that is interesting: The US currently has 1.6mil people in the same education/class ranking as undocumented aliens that have given up totally on finding a job bc the jobs they are fit for pay below minimum wage BC the undocumented aliens run DOWN the acceptable $/hour
Yes, because companies are willing to violate the law and hire illegals at sub-standard wages. Again, the blame for this rests with the companies, not the workers. However, by documenting the undocumented, companies suddenly are forced to pay a fair wage again.
I also question your assertion that low labor costs translate into additional inefficiencies within a company. The goal of a company is to maximize shareholder value and profit. Inexpensive labor allows for greater profit - why should a company relax its standards elsewhere in the profit equation because they have lowered costs in labor?
There IS an affect on the general market, I agree. Companies willing to use illegal labor have created an illicit competitive advantage over competitors unwilling to do so.
By Renee
March 30, 2006 11:05 AM | Link to this
Yeah, fear factor is a bit much for me. I’m wayyyy too squeamish for that.
By Jack
March 30, 2006 11:08 AM | Link to this
John. This isn’t the LOVE blog?
JBM. I will pass on that game. Already made Taco Bell bad for Julia. Besides, Mara or myself would win that one!
By The72John
March 30, 2006 11:13 AM | Link to this
The point is The person to blame is the one(or two) who break(s) the law. If it is against the law to enter the country without permission, then you blame the person who entered without permission. If it is against the law to hire someone who entered without permission, then you blame the one who hired the person who entered without permission. I think BOTH are to blame. Is that clear enough?
My comprehension of your position has never been the problem, Chuck. My problem is with your position. As always, your lack of compassion shows.
In the greater scheme of things, entering the country illegaly is not a serious offense, hence my earlier comparison with speeding. You see a criminal. I see desperate people who are willing to work hard for very little money. That’s the difference in you and me, Chuck. You claim to care about people, at least your strident proclamations of Christianity imply that you SHOULD care about people.
I actually DO care about people, regardless of their nation of origin. If someone commits a REAL crime, then by all means, ship them out. They’ve proved they don’t deserve to be here. But the majority, who work their fingers to the bone to be here - they have proved they deserve to stay.
I realize it’s easier for you to categorize and compartmentalize people. Actually showing concern for your fellow man is hard work. Oh, but I forgot. You do MISSION work. You MUST care.
By Mara
March 30, 2006 11:14 AM | Link to this
Jack - LOL!! I forgot about the “special” stew we made the other day! now that was pretty gross, LOL!
By kimberly
March 30, 2006 11:15 AM | Link to this
Chuck, logistics please! Why do you people think you can pound your fist and demand what’s “right” without offering logistics? Hello!
How much would it cost to round up and prosecute 11 million people? Just a ballpark. Phase 1: The roundup. How many personnel to locate, go out, kick in doors and drag them into vans, and bring them to…. where? Special CAMPS? Jails are too full already. How much for the extra personnel, vans, “camps” and processing costs? Phase 2: Then you have to feed them all while they’re being processed through ridiculously clogged “courts.” What do you do with their American children while you lock up the parents? Pull them out of school? Again, ballpark numbers, and how long will that take? Phase 3: Deporting them, and then handling familes, children, and jobs that are now destroyed. How much will all this cost?
What do you think we should slash from our current (deficit) budgets to pay for it? Many programs have already been cut to the bone to pay private contractors to “feed our boys” in Iraq, and of course, for that bang-up job they did rebuilding the Gulf Coast! So… how much & where?
Perhaps we’re looking at this backwards. Maybe what little money we have left in the treaury (actually negative numbers means NO money, but that doesn’t stop the borrow & spend administration) should FIRST be focused toward securing our borders.
Just a few rational thoughts.
By FatMoose
March 30, 2006 11:19 AM | Link to this
The goal of a company is to maximize shareholder value and profit. Inexpensive labor allows for greater profit - why should a company relax its standards elsewhere in the profit equation because they have lowered costs in labor?
Right - but if they had to pay a fair %/hour for labor, companies would look HARDER at ways to continue maximizing shareholder value and not let it drop as a result of paying more $/hr. Any strain put on a company is fought by looking to cut cost in other places (better/updated machinery) and the company would have to look at investing in working smart - not working hard.
For example, it could cost the same to have 5 cheap laborers and a mule/till vs one skilled worker + updated machinery, but that takes investment in the future. The ability to make the quick buck will unfortunately win out if the opprotunity exists.
By The72John
March 30, 2006 11:21 AM | Link to this
I never cease to be amazed by the facility with which some religious conservatives find ways to avoid Christ’s basic commandment. “This shall be the whole of the law…” or something like that, I believe? Yet no matter the issue, there’s always a reason why “Love thy neighbor” doesn’t apply to THIS situation, or THAT situation. Even though Christ said “THIS SHALL BE THE WHOLE OF THE LAW”, there’s always a verse or another (never something that Jesus said, by the way) that is used to justify NOT loving one’s neighbor.
Ah well…hypocrisy abounds.
By Jack
March 30, 2006 11:22 AM | Link to this
Woof, woof!
By Just Being Me
March 30, 2006 11:23 AM | Link to this
I can’t handle Fear Factor at all. My daughter and my mother both love that show. It started out okay, when they were accomplishing daring tasks like flying or swimming or jumping or letting dangerous insects crawl on them… but, I draw the line at ingesting anything other than tasteful food.
That goes beyond any fear factor… that’s just disgusting.
I’ve only seen one episode and in it, the contestants had to eat doughnuts with pigs blood filling, slug filling, and/or live crickets filling (if they were lucky, they got one that had real jelly filling - but at that point, I don’t even know if my mind would allow me to appreciate that! - and had to wash it down with curdled milk.
What fear does that overcome? It’s just plain disgusting, and it shows that some people would do anything for money.
By RF
March 30, 2006 11:24 AM | Link to this
kimberly— rational??!! You want rational thought…HERE??!! HAHAHAHAHA!
By chuck
March 30, 2006 11:26 AM | Link to this
NetB, and JBM, Please read this entire post Your posts yesterday got me thinking about your basic philosophy concerning religion. While I am not claiming that I know exactly where you are coming from, I think there are some basic ideas that will help you (and particularly JBM) understand where I am coming from.
1) Most people never get deep enough into scripture to really understand it. They have ideas like “it was written by different men and interpreted by different men to make it say what they wanted it to say.” People who understand the Nature of God, would never make that statement. God is SOVEREIGN. Men don’t exert their will over Him. The cannon of scripture is exactly what God wanted to reveal to us. Nothing more and nothing less. If you realize that, you understand that there is not anything MISSING from the Word. God does NOT have to tell us WHY He did something or HOW He did something.
2) The Bible has to be studied as a WHOLE DOCUMENT. In order to understand scripture, you have to understand this concept. Yes there are verses that “stand alone” in meaning. For instance, John 3:16, but for the most part, verses have to be studied IN CONTEXT as part of the whole. One of the mistakes that marginal Christians and NON-Christians make is to just pull verses out and USE them to justify whatever position they have taken on an issue. I will often wait to post an answer to a question that I am unsure of until I have a chance to study and search scripture. Sometimes I ask others that may know morew about a particular topic than I do, but when it comes to the Bible, I am from Missouri…you have to show me IN CONTEXT. I don’t believe it because someone said it.
3)The Gospel is OFFENSIVE: In Matthew 10, Jesus said:
32”Whoever acknowledges me before men, I will also acknowledge him before my Father in heaven. 33But whoever disowns me before men, I will disown him before my Father in heaven.
34”Do not suppose that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I did not come to bring peace, but a sword. 35For I have come to turn ” ‘a man against his father, a daughter against her mother, a daughter-in-law against her motherinlaw— 36a man’s enemies will be the members of his own household.’[e]
37”Anyone who loves his father or mother more than me is not worthy of me; anyone who loves his son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me; 38and anyone who does not take his cross and follow me is not worthy of me. 39Whoever finds his life will lose it, and whoever loses his life for my sake will find it.
I could come in here and blow smoke, but that is NOT the Gospel. I don’t mean to beat anyone over the head with it, but I have deeply held, logical, scripture-based beliefs. Yes I love to argue…I always have, but nothing is more important than the Gospel Message. Sometimes I get rather CAUSTIC in my arguments…not my best character trait, but I am a “defender of the Faith” and I will defend it vigorously. I don’t apologize for that.
4) Sometimes the MESSAGE of the Gospel IS HIDDEN. The Bible says SEEK and ye shall FIND. The reason MOST people don’t understand the Bible, is because they are not SEEKING. I believe that if someone lays aside their pre-conceived notions about who God is and what He does, then they lay aside their own notions of what is right and wrong, GOD will reveal Himself to them through His WORD. We can’t come to God with OUR agenda on OUR terms.
I will add to this later, but I really wanted you to understand the basis for what I say on this blog.
By Just Being Me
March 30, 2006 11:36 AM | Link to this
As usual, those are very good points, Kimberly.
John, I understand completely where you are coming from with ~ahem~ Chuck. But, I want you to be careful of implying that because a person feels immigrants should be prosecuted for breaking the law, they must lack compassion and love.
As I said before, I don’t have a definite opinion on this subject, but I do believe strongly that anyone who breaks the law should pay the price. I don’t believe immigrants should be mistreated. I acknowledge their contributions to this country (and I certainly acknowledge that almost all of us have ancestors who migrated to this country), and I am aware of the problems Kimberly raised, as well. Obviously, kicking them all out is not the answer. I agree with you that this is not a “serious” crime, in that illegally crossing the border does not cause any real physical danger to anyone.
At the same time, I don’t think that just because a person wants a better life for his/her family means that it’s okay for them to break the laws of another country to provide that better life… especially not when there are hundreds of thousands, if not millions, of people that are patiently (or impatiently) waiting their turn.
If it ever comes to light that I don’t live in the district where my daughter goes to school, I fully expect to have her expelled from that school, and that I may be made to reimburse the school system for her education. Sure, I was only trying to do what is best for my child. I want her to get a better education, and have better opportunities, and a better life. But, that doesn’t mean that I shouldn’t have to pay a penalty for breaking a law (or rule).
By The72John
March 30, 2006 11:36 AM | Link to this
We understand, Chuck, believe me, we do. You are an ugly, judgemental, spiteful human being, and you are one of those unfortunate souls who use religion as a bludgeon to justify that fact. People who recognize religion for what it truly is pity you, and hope that one day you will realize that using religion to validate your own lack of compassion and humanity is wrong.
By RF
March 30, 2006 11:37 AM | Link to this
chuck- WHY is it hidden? Why does it have to be hidden, if it’s the life altering soul-saving truth? I still think that’s man’s way of having an out to interpret. I think the Bible is very simple and direct and the truth isn’t hidden at all. It’s much less complex than man often makes it.
If you watch Springer a few times, you’ll see the sword of familial discord flying!!! (sorry, I just couldn’t resist the humor there- nothing personal!)
By Chilao
March 30, 2006 11:39 AM | Link to this
I heard this morning on NPR, in a commentary on the immigration issue, is that there were THREE prosecutions in one recent year(cannot remember the year, but it not a Bush vs Clinton issue, since both were rather lax in this area), for EMPLOYERS hiring illegals.
THREE prosecutions!
now that rat milk shake got me too sick to eat lunch later. LOL
By GOB
March 30, 2006 11:41 AM | Link to this
They have ideas like “it was written by different men and interpreted by different men to make it say what they wanted it to say.” … The cannon of scripture is exactly what God wanted to reveal to us. Nothing more and nothing less.
THe problem with this thinking is that the bible was, in fact, written by different men, and their writings have been altered and changed over the centuries. Scribes theological notes have ended up included. Entire stories have been added to the bible over the centuries. The best example of this is the one where Jesus says he who is without sin should throw the first stone. That story does not appear in any copy or translation of the bible until the middle ages.
Now, you can still have your belief that the cannon we have today is exactly as god planned, but to do so, you would have to acknowledge that the initial writings were not exactly what he wanted to reveal.
By Netbanker
March 30, 2006 11:47 AM | Link to this
FM - I don’t think that God hides, but I do think that for the purposes of control and power organized religion has somewhat hidden God. How have they done this? From my perspective it is through complex theology and indoctrination that creates the perception that ‘the church’ has insights into scriptures that must be explained to common man because he can not understand them on his own. Translations of original text and a lack of awareness of socio-economic-political-cultural factors come heavily into play. If one does have a clear grasp on the factors above as applicable to the time period in which the original text was written then one often reaches a false conclusion as to the underlying message of any particular text. God has become hidden through loss of this understanding because in order to apply the underlying message to a modern context one must truly understand it in it’s original context. Applying a false understanding to modern life further distorts the message.
To provide a secular example (and one I’m ‘stealing’ from Daniel Helmeniak) would be use of the phrases “being off base” or ” out in left field.” We natively understand these phrases to mean that someone is not within the mainstream. The cultural reference is based on baseball. If someone with no concept of either baseball or games played with bases on a diamond shaped field reads these phrases they will not reach the same understanding as one who understands the reference.
By GOB
March 30, 2006 11:47 AM | Link to this
Kimberly - I agree with you completly regarding the logistics. It simply isnt workable. Many illegals have children that are born in this country, and therefore are citizens. Should we deport their parents, and leave to be put in foster care?
By The72John
March 30, 2006 11:52 AM | Link to this
FM, I disagree with your assertion that a company will rest on its laurels because it has achieved an efficiency in one area. A good company always looks to the future, and the “quick buck”, as you say, is often eschewed in favor of a longer-term investment.
Take Blizzard, for instance - not the best example, but one I’m assuming you can relate to, given your WoW reference. Bliz as a company routinely pours substantial development capital into each of their products and refuses to rush the development cycle. They COULD release games that are not up to their standards and garner a quicker return, but they instead choose to take the long view. The results? Games like Diablo II rake in massive sales…WoW has 6 million subscribers and climbing…
Of course now that they broke half my mods, they may lose a customer…nah, who am I kidding.
Yes, adversity CAN lead to great efficiency gains, but the absence of one does not necessarily mean the absence of the other.
In fact, a case could be made the the competitive pressure exerted on other companies by companies using the cheap labor might force THOSE companies to innovate, thereby increasing overall efficiency within the particular market by a greater degree than would be achieved if that competitive pressure didn’t exist.
But hey, what do I know - I’m just an MBA who has studied and worked in business for years now :-)
By Chilao
March 30, 2006 11:53 AM | Link to this
I always thought it interesting that if people had actually OBEYED the Bible, we never would have had the Protestant Reformation, the American Revolution, the French Revolution, etc, etc, etc. based on the ‘obey your government’ concept.
By The72John
March 30, 2006 11:57 AM | Link to this
But, that doesn’t mean that I shouldn’t have to pay a penalty for breaking a law (or rule)
No, it doesn’t, and I don’t suggest that immigrants who naturalize should do so without any penalty, either. However, kicking them out of the country back into the conditions they fled in the first place is hardly a humane, compassionate solution.
Make them pay penalties - back taxes, additional taxes - make them perform community service. Penalize them, but do so in a manner that benefits the communities they have been living in illegaly and that allows them to prove their committment to being a member of this country.
By candide
March 30, 2006 12:00 PM | Link to this
The Bible was written by people with an agenda. It certainly wasn’t written by God or at God’s direction. And some of those who contributed to it, particularly the apocalytpic books, were certifiably nuts.
By FatMoose
March 30, 2006 12:01 PM | Link to this
Chuck,
You state that you understand that one must search/translate/dig in the bible to understand it but see NO evidence you have done this to any degree.
You hold strong to the bigitry that is has been used for in the past in order to further your present day bias against gays and others. For example, christ’s message had included women being equal and made no bones about them having increase roles, but you go by the OT version that sexist men of that time wanted to retain.
You won’t even be up front about how much of YOUR bible is now incorrect. One example; shall not kill was shall not murder but you choose to follow mans recreation of god.
You only recently accepted mixed race marriages, and you had to ask a preacher about that. IF you knew the bible half as good as you want us to believe, you would have KNOWN that there is no such reason to believe your racist notions. And more-over, you would have KNOWN that NO god that is about love would ordain such a notion; therefore, promting you to not just change your beliefs but to ralley against the proliferation of that belief in/out-side of church.
Your message burns bridges, and does not build them as christ/bible teaches.
By Whiley
March 30, 2006 12:05 PM | Link to this
Why do people spend so much time & effort on a book that clearly is flawed & written by MEN to control large groups of people? Why would anybody believe this just because a preacher told them? It’s sad.
Every word is what God wants? Nobody can really say that because it was written by people, a LONG time ago, with a specific agenda on how you should act/live your life. The “God” thing was thrown in to scare people into line. WHY do so many don’t see it for what it really is? Instead of using up all their time here memorizing & preaching about this book? Not to mention all the money wasted on big churches, TV shows, & other things.
By GOB
March 30, 2006 12:09 PM | Link to this
Chilao - If the earliest christians had followed the verse Chuck quoted, we wouldnt have christians today. Christianity was illegal in the Roman Empire for quite a long time.
By Chilao
March 30, 2006 12:14 PM | Link to this
If the earliest christians had followed the verse Chuck quoted, we wouldnt have christians today. Christianity was illegal in the Roman Empire for quite a long time
exactly. LOL
By FatMoose
March 30, 2006 12:19 PM | Link to this
I disagree with your assertion that a company will rest on its laurels because it has achieved an efficiency in one area.
I did not express that they would rest on laurels. If companies have cheaper labor to choose from when looking to cut cost, which they are always doing as we agree, they are going to take it more times than not. This labor force is not equipt to grow with the company in hi-tech advancement.
For example, the most profitable farms use hi-tech equipment that these people cannot operate. They have LANs on the farm to see who is buying produce high and who is selling seeds low. A company that hires alliens can ONLY compete with theses companies by way of skimming on labor costs, which they do.
Blizzard, as with all hi-tech companies, does not enter this arena at all since we are talking about a group that has a 98% of non-HS graduates.
By chuck
March 30, 2006 12:20 PM | Link to this
LOGISTICS
Yes there are 11-12 million people who fall into this category. The easiest way to see this number go down is to make the REASON they are here go away.
1) Target the major employers of illegals. Make the fines SO large that it is not economically feasible for them to employ them.
2) Pass a law that makes it a felony for a bank officer or employee to transfer money to another country unless proof of citizenship or legal employment can be shown.
3)Close the borders down.
4) Amend the Constitution to remove the automatic citizenship status for people born in America. Only children of people here legally would gain automatic citizenship at birth.
5) Force emergency rooms to report illegals that come in.
6) Have systematic crackdowns over time. Only prosecute what the sytem can handle. Don’t prosecute those who admit that they are here illegally, just send them home. Streamline the process. Put the onus on the individual to prove that they are here legally. Eventually, MOST will be caught. Those who remain will be somewhat isolated and the problem will eventually take care of itself.
Just doing these few things will take away the incentive to be here. Many will go back on their own if they can’t go back and forth or otherwise transmit money to their families back home. The problem will eventually be solved if we TRY to solve it. It will NEVER be solved if we don’t.
I heard this on a talk radio program yesterday and thought it appropriate:
They say we cannot win the war on terrorism. Should we abandon the fight?
They say we cannot win the war on drugs. Should we just legalize them?
They say we cannot win the war on poverty. Should we just abandon the poor?
The same thing is true of this “war”. Even though it may SEEM impossible, doesn’t mean we shouldn’t try to fix the problem.
By Nikita
March 30, 2006 12:30 PM | Link to this
72, I disagree with your innovation argument for the simple reason that it suggests that any company can compete and continue to provide value to shareholders, owners, and employees while attempting to create efficiencies. That’s not actually true, because smaller companies cannot compete. So what that mindset does is force market consolidation, which I would argue is not in the country’s best interests.
As for God and the bible, I think that’s for your personal interpretation. Personally, I have issues with the concept of the bible as infallible because it is by its nature imperfect, cobbled together through an editing process and written down originally as the word of god through men. But ya know, I don’t care what you believe. And I certainly neither would legislate based on my religious beliefs nor submit to legislation based on yours.
By Nikita
March 30, 2006 12:37 PM | Link to this
“2) Pass a law that makes it a felony for a bank officer or employee to transfer money to another country unless proof of citizenship or legal employment can be shown.”
Chuck, I like most of your suggestions, but the one above is ludicrous. It’s neither feasible nor effective. Legal immigrants and legitimate tourists will be (rightfully) angry, and illegals will find alternate means or friendly vendors.
“They say we cannot win the war on terrorism. Should we abandon the fight?”
Um, no. But we should perhaps bother defining an actual enemy and beating it, instead of creating a 1984esque ongoing police situation worldwide based on vague ideological goals.
“They say we cannot win the war on drugs. Should we just legalize them?”
Yes. actually. We should. But because the so-called War on Drugs is stupid, not because it’s a giant public boondoggle.
“They say we cannot win the war on poverty. Should we just abandon the poor?”
That’s pretty funny coming from conservative radio. We have increasingly abandoned the poor over the last 10 years or so.
By Jack
March 30, 2006 12:37 PM | Link to this
Oh Lord. Please lead us away from the current topic.
By RF
March 30, 2006 12:38 PM | Link to this
Unfortunately, the ‘solution’ is basically either jail ‘em or send ‘em back unless they have that green card, huh? What we’re discussing is frighteningly akin to the the Japanese-American camps during WWII. Basically, everyone who isn’t either white or black would be treated as an illegal and forced to walk around with all sorts of documentation. That’s really gonna help.
Also, if you had to live a month in their shoes where they came from, you’d think about this whole issue differently. We should all go live in a cardboard shack village in Mexico City for a while. I guarantee you we’d come back in a different frame of mind. They’re here because there is no opportunity where they come from.
I have two girls in my classes this year from rural Mexico. One speaks no English, reads not a word in English or Spanish, and has NEVER been in a school until now—she’s 17 years old!! Her sister has about a first grade reading level in spanish. They’re here because here they stand a chance—and that’s all they want, a chance. They’re working and contributing to our local economy and our state economy. They’re showing appreciation for the opportunity they have here, which is more than I can say for most of my lazy white kids who think they’re entitled because they have pale skin. If they leave, there’s goes a big chunk of productive, loyal workforce and quite a bit of spending. Yeah, that’ll have a great impact on the economy. But hey, we’ll all look the same and we can go back to discriminating against the poor and black. Too many colors confuse us I guess!!
By The72John
March 30, 2006 12:40 PM | Link to this
Blizzard, as with all hi-tech companies, does not enter this arena at all since we are talking about a group that has a 98% of non-HS graduates.
I was discussing the motivations of companies as a whole. Whatever the business, the basics hold true.
By GOB
March 30, 2006 12:41 PM | Link to this
They say we cannot win the war on poverty. Should we just abandon the poor?
Based on what you wrote above, you are only interested in ending poverty here in America. Do you think simply shipping illegals back to where they came from will end their poverty?
Also, would you be willing to pay in the increased prices for goods and services that would likely follow the deportation of so many illegals? They have a much bigger impact on driving our economy than many like to admit. There would be serious fallout. A place like Wal-Mart would be hit incredibly hard. Those 11M people have to buy clothes and general items for living. What do you think the impact of losing 11M customers would be to Wal-Mart, and the people it employs.
And this is all aside from the fact that you claim to be compassionate, and yet your ideas for reform are probably the least compassionate that I have heard anyone come up with.
By Jack
March 30, 2006 12:42 PM | Link to this
“1) Target the major employers of illegals. Make the fines SO large that it is not economically feasible for them to employ them.”
Oh Chuck. How’s that $12.00 tomatoe taste?
By chuck
March 30, 2006 12:46 PM | Link to this
False logic Chilao…Jesus said render unto CAESAR what is CAESAR’s and unto GOD what is GOD’S. In spiritual matters, one has to follow scripture, if that therefore bumps into the law, the believer would follow Christ and accept the consequences of the law. At the same time, there is nothing in scripture that would prevent us from trying to change the law OR from overthrowing oppression.
Benjamin Franklin said words to the effect of: All revolutions are illegal EXCEPT OUR revolution. Those without understanding NITPICK scripture when they don’t view it as a whole document.
By The72John
March 30, 2006 12:47 PM | Link to this
As usual, Chuck’s motivation is judgement, punishment and condemnation.
72, I disagree with your innovation argument for the simple reason that it suggests that any company can compete and continue to provide value to shareholders, owners, and employees while attempting to create efficiencies. That’s not actually true, because smaller companies cannot compete. So what that mindset does is force market consolidation, which I would argue is not in the country’s best interests.
I don’t like market consolidation either, precisely because it KILLS innovation and competition. And in some cases you’re right - increased efficiency on the part of one company, increased economies of scale and scope CAN lead to some companies not being able to compete, but it’s not a given.
My company, for example, has as it’s primary competitor a much, much larger multi-national corporation. However, through innovation, an unusual value proposition, and some niche product devlopment, we’re able to continue to compete effectively in the market.
But I’m in agreement with you that continued consolidation is bad for the consumer and the economy as a whole.
By kimberly
March 30, 2006 12:47 PM | Link to this
Thanks for interjecting some actual suggestions, Chuck! This is the first step toward addressing and solving problems!
(1) Fines: yes, most people seem to agree with this, and enforcement seems do-able, although, like everything else in our corrupt system, bribes will be par.
(2)Felony for a bank employee to transfer money: I hesitate to agree on this, as a person’s money belongs to them, no matter WHAT you think about them. If this were the case, let’s prosecute those transferring money from RICH AMERICAN CEOs to their foreign, off-shore, tax-free shelters!
(3)Borders: Uh… What did “homeland security” DO with those billions, anyway? Shoudn’t this have been done already? Why aren’t our PORTS secure as well? DHS is a JOKE.
(4) Amend the Constitution. HAHAHA! Doesn’t that require like, 2/3 of the House & Senate, and ratification by 3/4 of the state legislatures as well? Good luck with that. BTW, I want them to prioritize their work, and wasting years on this amendment is not the best use of their sorry, self-serving time, IMO.
(5)Medical treatment: Okay, if you make them afraid to seek medical treatment, then they’ll walk around among us spreading INFECTIOUS DISEASES. Not good for anybody, and clearly violates the spirit of “love thy neighbor.” I suggest the opposite: Leave doctors OUT OF IT!
(6) Crackdowns: How ‘bout let the cops keep arresting criminals to keep us safer? That’s their job, and they don’t earn enough for doing it as it is!
Anyway, good start, Chuck! Discussing ACTUAL issues can be fun and meaningful TOO!
By RF
March 30, 2006 12:50 PM | Link to this
How’s that $12.00 tomato taste?
How about that $24.00 burger that it’s on??
By The72John
March 30, 2006 12:55 PM | Link to this
(2)Felony for a bank employee to transfer money: I hesitate to agree on this, as a person’s money belongs to them, no matter WHAT you think about them. If this were the case, let’s prosecute those transferring money from RICH AMERICAN CEOs to their foreign, off-shore, tax-free shelters
And let’s not forget that the amount of US currency that leaves our economy in the form of Mexican remitances are but a drop in the bucket compared to the currency, T-Bonds and T-Bills we have handed to China on a silver platter.
By GOB
March 30, 2006 12:55 PM | Link to this
Chuck - Do you believe that the bible that you use today has not been altered in any way since it was first written down? What about the stories that were told for decades before they were ever written down?
If they are the exact word of god, nothing more or less, and exactly what he wants us to know, they couldnt possibly have changed at all, unless you concede that originally god didnt get it right.
By Chilao
March 30, 2006 12:56 PM | Link to this
Chuck, I was commenting on your 10:42. Someone else posting under your name again?
As for what Jesus would do? It is answered in His Word:
Romans 13:1 Everyone must submit himself to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established. The authorities that exist have been established by God.
By FatMoose
March 30, 2006 12:59 PM | Link to this
If they leave, there’s goes a big chunk of productive, loyal workforce and quite a bit of spending.
False statement. The aliens we are talking about barely make enough here to eat. So they are not out there buying a lot of items that contribute to sales tax.
As for the drop in productivity - that will have to be made up by the same means that other companies utilize: technology.
As for loyal workforce: We could have our own loyal workforce. The notion that aliens take only jobs that amercians do not want has been debunked many times. If the cheaper labor force did not exist, the companies would have to rely on a fairly paid local work force.
Why else do you think that “Fair Trade” items (like the coffee I buy) is offered? For those of us that want to further companies that pay a fair wages and also compete fairly to further a competative economy.
Those are GOOD things that come out of an economy that minimises short-cuts like cheap/illegal labor.
Not to mention that it takes advantage of people creating a cycle that does not provide opprotunity. This is not unlike in their own country except instead of 4 to a apartment there, they have 10 to an apartment here.
By chuck
March 30, 2006 01:01 PM | Link to this
Kimmie,
I don’t have a problem cracking down on “Rich CEO’s” ILLEGALLY transferring funds to offshore accounts. One of the biggest problems with illegal aliens is that much of what they earn is sent OUT of the country. That’s one of the reasons why illegals have less positive economic impact than many believe. I’ve read stories of Chinese immigrants living as many as 25 people in a 2 bedroom apt. so they can send all of their money back to family in China, for instance. This doesn’t help our economy IMO.
I agree DHS is not handling the “border” issue, but they have not been given that task or the funding to carry it out. That is a function of INS and the current administration is for some reason tying their hands. I strongly disagree with the administration on the border issue.
As for the “police arresting criminals” comment, that was not what I was referring to. I am talking about INS crackdowns not local law enforcement. However, if local cops arrest illegals, they should be turned over to INS and deported immediately.
See, we can agree on some things.
By Chilao
March 30, 2006 01:04 PM | Link to this
So they are not out there buying a lot of items that contribute to sales tax.
Most earnings aside from living expenses got back to Mexico, why it is important to Mexico that this continue. beats a social revolution there.
and like GOB pointed out anyway, $5 a day in Mexico is too expensive for our great multinationals, they need that $2.50 a day in say Bolivia instead.
By candide
March 30, 2006 01:05 PM | Link to this
Forgetting reading the damn bible Our problems could be dealt with by reading Jefferson: the true of liberty needs to be watered with the blood of patriots. We need to march to the White House and take Bush out. He is destroying our America. We need a revolution. Forget Jesus, he will never come again.
By Jack
March 30, 2006 01:07 PM | Link to this
The aliens we are talking about barely make enough here to eat. So they are not out there buying a lot of items that contribute to sales tax.
Good plug for the fair tax Moose. When you live 10-20 per apartment the rent for you is low enough to buy food, drink, & recreational drugs. (and that low-rider chevy everyone is envious of)
By Chilao
March 30, 2006 01:07 PM | Link to this
And I cannot consider our Founding Fathers oppressed. Many would have stayed British had they been allowed to have representation in Parliament. Talk about good timing(King George III at the time was a wacko)
By GOB
March 30, 2006 01:07 PM | Link to this
The aliens we are talking about barely make enough here to eat. So they are not out there buying a lot of items that contribute to sales tax.
Not sure if you have ever worked much retail before, but this couldnt be farther from the truth. Often times several of them will pool resources, but they do have the ability to buy items.
Even if they arent spending much, the sheer number of illegals mean they will be contributing in sales tax in a meaningful way.
By Chilao
March 30, 2006 01:09 PM | Link to this
Mexico being a generic term for illegals, many are Central American and as Chuck points out, Chinese even.
By GOB
March 30, 2006 01:11 PM | Link to this
I’ve read stories of Chinese immigrants living as many as 25 people in a 2 bedroom apt. so they can send all of their money back to family in China, for instance. This doesn’t help our economy IMO.
Why do you think they are sending that money to back to their family. Most of the time it is so the family can save enough to join them here. Once that happens, we will have more people working here, spending money and not sending the bulk back home.
Chilao - $2.50 in Boliva? What, our our companies made of gold?? How about $.75 in Haiti…
By chuck
March 30, 2006 01:14 PM | Link to this
No Chilao, that was my post. What I am saying is that in spite of who is in power (in charge of Gov’t, if you will) God is still sovereign. The fact that God ALLOWS someone to be inpower, does not necessarily mean that God either condones OR pushes them to do any particular thing with that power. Sometimes God USES the bad things that they do to change the world. Look at Hitler for instance…horrible person, but God used him to bring together our country for a common cause that carried us through the many trying times that followed WWII among other things. This is being done on the fly so these thoughts are not complete, but the bottom line is that We are under the authority of the government, but that does not mean that we should follow it when it conflicts with our FAITH. BUT, there very well may be consequences when we do that. For instance, the Christians who hid Jews during the reign of the Nazis. Many of them were sent to concentration camps themselves. Hope this makes sense.
By Renee
March 30, 2006 01:15 PM | Link to this
They say we cannot win the war on drugs. Should we just legalize them?
By all means!
By Julia
March 30, 2006 01:18 PM | Link to this
Jack-you’ll never guess where I went for lunch today…yep, Taco Bell.
By GOB
March 30, 2006 01:19 PM | Link to this
Look at Hitler for instance…horrible person, but God used him to bring together our country for a common cause that carried us through the many trying times that followed WWII among other things.
Lovely arrogance there. God allowed 6 million jews to be murdered, along with allowing millions more soldiers to be killed so that America could come together as a country??? Ahhh…God is love…
the Christians who hid Jews during the reign of the Nazis. Many of them were sent to concentration camps themselves.
Probably because they werent American. God would have stepped in if they were.
By lozen
March 30, 2006 01:19 PM | Link to this
IMHO, Christ said, I am the way, the truth, and the life. No man comes to the father except through me” (John 14:6), is what the author of the book of John said, not what Yeshua himself said. It’s been changed so much we really do not know what he said. (My question has always been, why would god choose someone for such an important position who could not write?) John is the only gospel that claims Jesus was the “only” son of god and the only gospel that makes the claim that he is the only way to Yahweh. The writers of the other gospels treat Jesus as a special man, but still a man, or as a teacher, or as a prophet of Yahweh.
By Jack
March 30, 2006 01:20 PM | Link to this
This one’s for Chuck:
A little boy got on the bus, sat next to a man reading a book, and
noticed he had his collar on backwards. The little boy asked why he wore his collar that way. The man, who was a priest, said, ” I am a Father.” The little boy replied, “My Daddy doesn’t wear his collar like
that.” The priest looked up from his book and answered “I am the Father of many.”
The boy said, “My Dad has 4 boys, 4 girls and two grandchildren
and he doesn’t wear his collar that way.” The priest, getting impatient, said, “I am the Father of hundreds” and went back to reading his book. The little boy sat quietly thinking for a while, then leaned over and said, “Maybe you should wear your pants backwards instead of your collar.”
By GOB
March 30, 2006 01:23 PM | Link to this
Lozen - If you look at the gospels in the order they were actually written, Jesus does become more miraculous and supernatural in each one. They were built upon each other, and other texts, along with the fact that the goal of the gospels is to win souls. Basically, the gospels are marketing pieces.
By Whiley
March 30, 2006 01:23 PM | Link to this
Funny how some can quote what God wants word for word, God’s intentions for everything that’s ever happened in the world good & bad. Who here has spoken directly to God & God said all this stuff & the meaning behind everything that was done?
Gullible, gullible, gullible. I’m not trying to be rude, I’m just pointing things out. OK using the word gullible might be name calling, but, I mean what’s next? The next bible is going to tell everyone the sky is pink then everyone’s going to believe it?
By chuck
March 30, 2006 01:23 PM | Link to this
That’s just SILLY Gob. These illegals are here for the EXPRESS purpose of sending that money back home. Those families at home can live like kings on what their illegal immigrant family members can make here.
Vincente Fox knows that and it is why he is so adamant about economic retaliation if we crack down. This is pure and simple about ECONOMICS. It is good for them and BAD for us.
By FatMoose
March 30, 2006 01:28 PM | Link to this
Once that happens, we will have more people working here, spending money and not sending the bulk back home.
These people in these jobs do not have a way to ascend the corperate ladder. They may be able to move here, but they will be in the same position as the people that were before them. We are talking about a cycle that has no exit strategy, and I believe the numbers that state that if WE make the situation right by blanket amnesty it will encourage more to follow that tract. It will ALSO drain us more than now bc of the social services needed, extra training to get adults up to speed, and the extra tutoring to get the kids up to speed when we cannot even do this for our own.
By The72John
March 30, 2006 01:29 PM | Link to this
Look at Hitler for instance…horrible person, but God used him to bring together our country for a common cause that carried us through the many trying times that followed WWII among other things
This is possibly the most ego-centric, arrogant comment I have ever heard…do you actually believe that God “allowed” 6 million people to be brutalized, tortured and murdered, not to mention the hundreds of thousands who died actually fighting the war, just so that the bloody United States could get out of the Depression and come together?
THIS is your relgious philosophy? I was wrong about you - you aren’t mean-spirited and spiteful, you are evil incarnate.
By Renee
March 30, 2006 01:30 PM | Link to this
Good one Jack.
Shipping out illegal aliens at this point would be fruitless, and damn near impossible. We should make them productive citizens in this country especially if they have children. But, we have to monitor who comes into the country. Our borders are way too open.
By Jack
March 30, 2006 01:34 PM | Link to this
“Those families at home can live like kings on what their illegal immigrant family members can make here”
Exactly Chuck. You wouldn’t do whatever it takes to feed your family? You wouldn’t pay $1000.00 to ride with 15 others in a jiffy-johnny across the desert to make minimum wage to feed your children?
How bad it must be to have to do that.
By RF
March 30, 2006 01:38 PM | Link to this
Moose- if they buy food, they pay sales tax—DUH They’re also buying clothes, paying rent/utilities to American landlords, buying cars, buying gas….need I go on? That constitutes economic contribtuion, doesn’t it?
Technology?? What technology is going to carry plywood and swing a hammer?? Last time I checked, there weren’t any robots or computers designed to do that.
They have those jobs because they are willing to work, regardless of weather or job demands. If the “Americans” were willing to do them without exorbitant pay, there wouldn’t be so many jobs available to the immigrants! It’s because we DON’T have a loyal workforce. HELLO!! If our own were loyal??!!HAHAHAHA!!
10 TO AN APARTMENT HERE?? At home, they can’t afford an apartment. Do you have any idea how the poor who struggle to get here live there?? They’re not leaving Mexican suburbs with lawns and swimming pools you know!
By RF
March 30, 2006 01:40 PM | Link to this
These people in these jobs do not have a way to ascend the corperate ladder. They may be able to move here, but they will be in the same position as the people that were before them Could that be why the locals don’t want those jobs and aren’t willing to do them??? HMMMMM???
By RF
March 30, 2006 01:42 PM | Link to this
Prove that one. Name ONE rich Mexican who got that way because of money his brothers sent home from here.
By RF
March 30, 2006 01:44 PM | Link to this
By Just Being Me
March 30, 2006 01:45 PM | Link to this
NetB, and JBM, Please read this entire post Your posts yesterday got me thinking about your basic philosophy concerning religion. While I am not claiming that I know exactly where you are coming from, I think there are some basic ideas that will help you (and particularly JBM) understand where I am coming from.
Just because you asked me respectfully, I’m going to try to read the entire post. Keep in mind that I have ADD and I usually skim through longer posts - I have a VERY hard time reading most lengthy blog entries.
But, before I do, I have a question. Why on earth was this addressed to me? It seems to be coming out of the blue since I didn’t discuss the whole “God is hidden” topic….
By Mara
March 30, 2006 01:48 PM | Link to this
just browsing around some websites and found this one for anyone interested in the lusty habits of angels (as was described in the Bible…)- http://www.angelicartistry.com/grigori.htm
Genesis 6:2 - That the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose
By lozen
March 30, 2006 01:48 PM | Link to this
Sometimes God USES the bad things that they do to change the world. Look at Hitler for instance…horrible person, but God used him to bring together our country for a common cause that carried us through the many trying times that followed WWII among other things. I’m sure this is a huge comfort to all the Jewish people who died in Germany and to their relatives living now!
By chuck
March 30, 2006 01:50 PM | Link to this
What kind of contortions you must go through 72john to come up with an asinine statement like that. I said no such thing.
I don’t KNOW ALL OF THE REASONS GOD HAD FOR ALLOWING THAT TO HAPPEN. What I do know is the Nature of God is inherently GOOD. While it was a HORRIBLE event that should NEVER BE REPEATED, SOME good things did happen AFTERWARDS. I don’t know how those things fit into God’s plan, but they seem relatively obvious to me that they did fit.
By Netbanker
March 30, 2006 01:55 PM | Link to this
2) Pass a law that makes it a felony for a bank officer or employee to transfer money to another country unless proof of citizenship or legal employment can be shown.
What is the purpose of this control? What are you trying to accomplish? What do citizenship or legal employment have to do with whether one is able to transfer funds. There are foreign nationals who wire funds to their corporate offices in their homes countries. There are individuals who are retired with dual citizenship. What about them?
They say we cannot win the war on drugs. Should we just legalize them? They say we cannot win the war on poverty. Should we just abandon the poor?
What’s up with EVERYTHING being a WAR? These things are not wars because they will NEVER truly have an end. They need to be processes or approaches, but not a damn war. What I find outrageous about these two ‘wars’ in particular is that despite spending BILLIONS every year on them we have made ZERO net progress. Our current approach isn’t working, Chuck! One commonly accepted definition of stupidity is repeating the same behavior again and again with the expectation of achieveing a different result. Let’s stop being stupid about this and try to think creatively and rationally.
Why not try legalizing certain drugs and using the funds raised from taxes on those drugs to treat addicts and create education programs? Think of how much we would save by no longer arresting and taxing our prisons by filling them with low-level, non-violent drug users and dealers? Think of the reduction in violent street crime as dealers no longer fight over street corners from which to sell their drugs. This impacts cost and effectiveness of the police and our health care systems as well as making neighborhoods safer.
Studies have pretty much proved that there is a fairly constant rate of drug use and abuse across time. Legalizing drugs won’t significantly change those rates since those who ARE going to try or do drugs WILL regardless of their legality. Need a real example? Think alcohol. It’s a drug, it’s addictive to some, many people do manage to enjoy it’s effects without severe impact to their lives, we treat those who are severely impacted and want help, and we punish those whose alcohol use endangers the lives of others. Why isn’t this approach just as valid with other classes of drugs? What is the REAL difference between the legal liquid drug of alcohol and other drugs outside of a false moral or societal belief that ‘drugs’ are somehow worse than alcohol? Basically we’re spending billions without actually achieving any real results. It’s not that we can’t WIN the war so much as we can’t have an effect on drug use given our current tactics and perceptions.
By lozen
March 30, 2006 01:56 PM | Link to this
72John, your 1:29 is so right! Idiots who think they can tell all of us how we should be living, what we should be thinking, what we should be doing…. Of course, they wouldn’t be so sure about all that if they weren’t idiots, would they?
By Just Being Me
March 30, 2006 01:57 PM | Link to this
You only recently accepted mixed race marriages, and you had to ask a preacher about that.
Let us watch our accusations. That wasn’t chuck, that was Randy.
By FatMoose
March 30, 2006 01:58 PM | Link to this
Moose- if they buy food, they pay sales tax—DUH They’re also buying clothes, paying rent/utilities to American landlords, buying cars, buying gas….need I go on? That constitutes economic contribution, doesn’t it?
DUH?!?! Nice verbiage there! I see you choose a combative style of communicating - I will overlook it though.
More like the amount gained from those items are MINIMAL to the point of nonexistent when talking revenue. And buying a car?!?! Not much tax on a used car - if any.
What technology is going to carry plywood and swing a hammer?? Well, off the cuff, a fork-lift and nailgun. One of which you need to be certified requiring ID/citizenship and the other is not used as frequently bc that IS an area that it would cost less to hire 200 swinging arms than 50 air-powered nailguns and pay 50 workers to use them. This I know for a fact bc of insurance reasons construction companies stay away from any hazards that could incur increase in injury of non-insured workers; which translates into machinery that requires training.
And for” They have those jobs because they are willing to work, regardless of weather or job demands. If the “Americans” were willing to do them without exorbitant pay, there wouldn’t be so many jobs available to the immigrants!
They do not WANT these jobs. These specific low-paying jobs are the only ones that can pay under the table, and therefore the ones that can TAKE ADVANTAGE of them. If what you are saying was true you would not see americans working two or three McD jobs - or are you saying that McDs pay an exorbitant amount?
If you want to continue, cool - but put down the attitude.
By The72John
March 30, 2006 01:59 PM | Link to this
What kind of contortions you must go through 72john to come up with an asinine statement like that. I said no such thing.
Look around Chuck - I’m not the only one going through those contortions. I think you’ll find that everyone who has responded to your post has condemned you for saying it.
Your comment proves what a blind zealot you really are. That you think God USED the murder of millions of people to cause something good to happen shows that YOU are the one going through mental contortions.
You are a sad, pathetic person, Chuck. There is NOTHING redeeming about you. You and all the zealots like you are a blight on the world.
By lozen
March 30, 2006 02:00 PM | Link to this
I just want to know if there is anyone on this blog who feels more positive about god, christianity, and the bible after reading posts by Chuck - oh, besides Zack? Anybody feel that they want to join his group? Anybody?
By Mara
March 30, 2006 02:00 PM | Link to this
Jack what’s a “jiffy-johnny”?
As for the argument that illegal immigrants just want to support their families…I thought we had that one licked yesterday. Sure they do. Does that excuse breaking the law? Which laws do we give them passes on? Sneaking across the border? Procuring false documents and/or identities? Fraud, if they’ve ever signed an application or contract attesting to the validity of the information? Conspiring to circumvent job safety laws? Conspiring to circumvent minimum wage laws? Driving without a liscense? Or should we look the other way? If we do, since all of us should be equal under the law, wouldn’t that mean that everyone should get a pass on this? Wouldn’t that mean that the exploitive employer should be given the same amnesties that the illegal got? Which laws shall we say are not so much laws as, well, suggestions from the government?
By lozen
March 30, 2006 02:03 PM | Link to this
And FatMoose accuses someone else of having an attitude! This is a lunatic asylum! My son is laughing at FatMoose!
By chuck
March 30, 2006 02:05 PM | Link to this
JBM, it was primarily because I wanted you to know where I am coming from more than the “hidden” thing. Particularly 2 and 3. I also want you to know that Christians CAN disagree. There is some room for disagreement on a number of issues, but we don’t have to be disagreeable. I’ve been a Christian for 38 years. I have studied scripture extensively, but I don’t consider myself to be an expert. I do have experts available who are far more qualified to discuss these topics than I am. I study the topics MOST of the time, fairly exhaustably before I try to post on them. Many of these topics however are ones that I have had hours and hours of discussions about with other Christians and with lost people. 2 topics in particular that I have studied extensively in scripture are homosexuality and creation. I generally can quote scripture on these topics a little more quickly than others because I have debated them for the past 20 years. Others I hesitate on because I have to do more research. That’s why I wanted you to read the post. I do want you to understand me a little better.
By The72John
March 30, 2006 02:06 PM | Link to this
By the way, CHUCK. If God is inherently GOOD AND inherently omnipotent, don’t you think, even with that pea-sized lump of iron you call a brain, that he would have picked a way that DIDN’T involve the most brutal crime in the history of the world?
Or, are you just trying to rationalize as best you can in the face of overwheliming evidence that says that your entire worldview is false.
By FatMoose
March 30, 2006 02:09 PM | Link to this
Could that be why the locals don’t want those jobs and aren’t willing to do them???
Or the system provides no means of moving up the chain because they are illegal, where-as a local CAN take classes and get certified and become a foreman. For comparison, in McDs, one can actually move into management - but it would not be that way for an alien.
And if McDs was an alien majority industry, you WOULD see the system for ascending atrophy over time and no longer attract locals.
By GOB
March 30, 2006 02:10 PM | Link to this
Chuck - Your exact quote was “Look at Hitler for instance…horrible person, but God used him to bring together our country for a common cause that carried us through the many trying times that followed WWII among other things.”
That is exactly what you said. It is possible you meant something different, but three seperate people (myself, 72John, and RF) all read the exact same thing, and essentially posted the exact same response. I dont think all 3 of us misread your qoute.
By Jack
March 30, 2006 02:11 PM | Link to this
Mara. It is the same thing as a “port-a-potty”. You know, the little blue ultra-sanitary portable toilets they use on constuction sites.
By Zack
March 30, 2006 02:12 PM | Link to this
Jack—I was wanting to clear up some misunderstandings Kimberly had, which was observable by some things she had typed. Why don’t you just keep your comments to yourself unless it’s really a situation where someone needs to step in—and where you’re going to say something worthwhile?
I’m not perfect, but like I said yesterday, it’s hard to talk to those who claim to believe a fetus isn’t a human being and that men aren’t mistreated by society, etc.. Why deny the obvious, especially the former?
By chuck
March 30, 2006 02:12 PM | Link to this
You conveniently left out the next line in that post:
This is being done on the fly so these thoughts are not complete.
By The72John
March 30, 2006 02:14 PM | Link to this
Conspiring to circumvent job safety laws? Conspiring to circumvent minimum wage laws
Conspiring? That implies complicity…don’t you think that maybe they’re just happy to have a job? Don’t you think that maybe it’s the employers who are violating saftey and wage regulations?
By GOB
March 30, 2006 02:15 PM | Link to this
Those families at home can live like kings on what their illegal immigrant family members can make here.
Have you ever even been to a Central American country before? I have, and the number of people “living like kings” in any given city can usually be counted on your fingers and toes.
By Just Being Me
March 30, 2006 02:17 PM | Link to this
Okay, I did it - I read the 11:26… although I’m still not sure why.
I’m not sure what makes you think I don’t know where you’re coming from. I was raised in an Apostolic family, was saved in a Pentecostal church; and from childhood to date, nearly every single one of my friends and foes have been “Christian.” In other words, just about everyone in my world is (or once was) “Christian.” I know exactly where you’re coming from.
Secondly, I’m not sure what I said yesterday that led you to ponder my “basic philosophy” about religion. I’ve never hesitated to make it clear exactly how I feel about religion, Christianity, Christ, the Bible, other religions, or the church.
My life here and beyond, is an open book. I do not hesitate to reveal my faults and sins. I find that the majority of non-Christians, myself included, have been turned completely off by the “I once was a sinner, but now I’m not and on the few occasions that I do slip up and sin, my sins are nowhere near as bad as yours since I don’t live a lifestyle of sin, I just commit the occasional sin” nonsense. So, generally, non-Christians find it surprising, not hypocritical, for a Christ-follower to admit that he or she has sinned.
I’m not sure if you’re still stuck on my openly admitting that I enrolled my daughter in a school outside of our district, or if you’re just thinking on my overall life.
Either way, I think we both agree on one small point: in the end, we will all be held accountable for our wrongdoing. We will be accountable for each and every person that turned away from Christ because of something we did or failed to do.
By Chilao
March 30, 2006 02:18 PM | Link to this
Chuck - what you posted made sense, reminded me of the old-time monarchs stating they ruled by divine authority
By Jack
March 30, 2006 02:18 PM | Link to this
Zack. I’ll say whatever I want here. I don’t give a damn what you want to clear up.
By Netbanker
March 30, 2006 02:21 PM | Link to this
Shoot! Don’t know what I did to make that last post kick off, but back to the topic…
chuck, with your example are you trying to say that God is on the side of the United States? Your God is the same as Osama bin Ladin’s God. So how does God choose sides? You’ve said it’s ok to attempt to change or overthrow an oppressive government (hey, it was good for Moses, yes?). So how do we know that God isn’t siding with Osama because our meddling in mid-east affairs has enabled some nasty characters (Sadam for example) to do some evil things and Osama is trying to stop our harming God’s mid-east peoples?
I often hear that being a Christian isn’t easy. Well duh! God said to love one another and then to see if we’re up to the task made us all VERY different. We’re failing Chuck and you seem to be one of those leading the charge based on my understanding of some of your positions. Heart in right place…head has some cogitating and catching up to do.
OK…on to immigration. Question to everyone who seems to be somewhat defending the illegals based on their wanting a chance. Shouldn’t we be trying to solve some of the problems by presssuring our government and other governments to fix the problems in the countries of origin of many of our illegals? Wouldn’t this type of approach mean that they wouldn’t come to the U.S. which wouldn’t tax the social support systems of our country and at the same time it creates a foreign population with enough wealth to become purchasers of U.S. goods and services?
By RF
March 30, 2006 02:22 PM | Link to this
Moose- my apologies. Nothing personal in the attitude. Just vehement about the issue is all. You too quickly assume personal insult sometimes.
Whether it’s a hammer or a nailgun, you still have to have someone to use it. My best friend is a general contractor, and his words on this subject are (I called him during my lunch). “I pay my imiigrant crews the same wage I pay my ‘American’ crews. They work faster, work better, and demand less. They show up on time, EVERY day, rain or shine. I hire only those with legal status (at least a green card) and they DO pay taxes on the money I pay them.”
HE does have nail guns AND a dump truck (CDL license required), power lift for heavy jobs, and various other expensive, technologically advanced tools. He said all the tools in the world won’t take the place of a person to hold a board in place and move it when needed. A swinging hammer is necessary because there are places a nail gun won’t fit and times when a nail CAN’T be used (certain indoor applications for instance). A person has to run these tools- nationality not withstanding.
By GOB
March 30, 2006 02:23 PM | Link to this
Chuck - Putting a disclaimer that you are typing on the fly doesnt change what you wrote. Most of us here type on the fly, and I honestly dont recall anyone typing anything so arrogant and tasteless before.
Since I am typing on the fly, you can forgive the me for the following:
Chuck likes taking little boys to the janitors closet whenever he can…
By chuck
March 30, 2006 02:24 PM | Link to this
72john, you obviously have a reading comprehension problem. I didn’t SAY GOD PICKED that as a method to do what He did in America. What I said was that He used it to bring about good. God is SOVEREIGN, BUT MAN HAS FREE WILL. God doesn’t force mankind to be good or to do good. He is NOT a puppetmaster standing there pulling the strings. He does however, take what happens from that free will that we have and USE it to accomplish His PURPOSE.
You have already demonstrated your lack of knowledge about GOD in General AND your lack of interest in ANYTHING HOLY, so why should this topic be any different?
By Renee
March 30, 2006 02:29 PM | Link to this
Too funny GOB LOL
By RF
March 30, 2006 02:30 PM | Link to this
Or the system provides no means of moving up the chain because they are illegal, where-as a local CAN take classes and get certified and become a foreman. For comparison, in McDs, one can actually move into management - but it would not be that way for an alien.
The guy who did my new siding last summer came here as an illegal alien, worked his butt off to survive, eventually got citizenship, and now owns his own small siding company. He got my job because he did quality work for 1/3 less than the nearest competitor, did it in two days, and I have yet to find a fault in the work. I point that out to show that there are some who come here illegally in the hopes of one day moving up and becoming good god-fearing citizens.
By Whiley
March 30, 2006 02:32 PM | Link to this
It’s also hard to talk to anybody that believes in fairy tales so much that it dictates their entire lives. They cannot decipher between what is real & what is not. Where is the logic in their thoughts since they’ve been brainwashed to only think one way? Answer, they aren’t logical & you can’t convince them of anything else, no matter how obvious the real truth is.
So the question is, should those type of thinkers be allowed to run our country?
By The72John
March 30, 2006 02:32 PM | Link to this
You have already demonstrated your lack of knowledge about GOD in General AND your lack of interest in ANYTHING HOLY, so why should this topic be any different?
Yet again, Chuck - you seem to be missing the fact that your comment caused universal disgust.
Ah, that’s right Chuck…if it doesn’t match YOUR understanding of God and Holy, then it’s flat out wrong, right?
Trust me, Chuck, you wouldn’t know Holy if it moved in next door. In fact, if Holy DID move in next door, you’d probably try to have it deported.
What you DO know is a depraved perversion of religion that debases mankind and excuses our worst impulses. Your version of God is disgusting, Chuck. Just like you.
By The72John
March 30, 2006 02:35 PM | Link to this
2 topics in particular that I have studied extensively in scripture are homosexuality and creation.
Lol - you spent 20 years studying three or four lines that many scholars say don’t even really have anything to do with homosexuality? Your obsession becomes more and more apparent, Chuck.
Why are you so obsessed with gay people, Chuck? Trying to bury some inner demons?
By kimberly
March 30, 2006 02:36 PM | Link to this
Jack, you are SO turning me on.
By FatMoose
March 30, 2006 02:37 PM | Link to this
My best friend is a general contractor, and his words on this subject are (I called him during my lunch). “I pay my imiigrant crews the same wage I pay my ‘American’ crews. They work faster, work better, and demand less. They show up on time, EVERY day, rain or shine. I hire only those with legal status (at least a green card) and they DO pay taxes on the money I pay them.”
If he only hires legals, then he is not the employer we are talking about.
We are talking about the masses of under-the-table employers that hire illegals. Kudos that your friend does not participate in hiring them, but that lack of participation makes his situation unimportant to the topic.
By Mara
March 30, 2006 02:37 PM | Link to this
72J - Conspiring? That implies complicity…don’t you think that maybe they’re just happy to have a job? Don’t you think that maybe it’s the employers who are violating saftey and wage regulations?
Of course they’re happy to have jobs. That doesn’t meant that they are not conspiring with employers to circumvent the safety and minimum wage laws. I imagine that perhaps they are so happy about it that they don’t report abuse, wage discrepancies, or dangerous labor practices. By not reporting it, and profiting by it, they are complicit in breaking these laws. In fact, they enable the employer to do so, hense the “conspiricy” lable.
I’m guessing that your next comment will be something on the order of “well, they didn’t know about safety and wage laws.” To which I reply, according to the law, ignorance is no defense.
By chuck
March 30, 2006 02:40 PM | Link to this
That’s pretty stupid even for you, GOB. I typed an incomplete BUT TRUE statement. You made up something false. You have absolutley NO SENSE of logic.
By Mara
March 30, 2006 02:42 PM | Link to this
Chuck - is your god omnipotent?
By The72John
March 30, 2006 02:45 PM | Link to this
I’m guessing that your next comment will be something on the order of “well, they didn’t know about safety and wage laws.” To which I reply, according to the law, ignorance is no defense.
Actually, my next comment would be something about being overly legalistic, and an obvservation that I am far more concerned about people and real-life concerns than I am about punishing people who are guilty of nothing more than trying to make a better life.
By FatMoose
March 30, 2006 02:49 PM | Link to this
I point that out to show that there are some who come here illegally in the hopes of one day moving up and becoming good god-fearing citizens.
RF, Do you want to stand behind this and say it is the norm? 50% of the norm?
It is a rarity - and can only HAPPEN after one becomes a citizen. That is why we DO have a system for people to apply to and become citizens. Circumventing the system bc it is quicker only works once in a great while, and still hurts the US economy in the process.
If that was the norm, we would not be having this conversation.
Again, I ask what your solution are?
And to be sure you know mine, I will restate: A long process of tenaciously adhering to our current laws to, mainly through attrition, promote the ebbing of those who are here; coupled by the slow and steady beefing up of our borders. No mass exodus or amnesty bc both of those options incur an expense we cannot afford to implement/follow-through with, and affect secondary $ issues like increased use of our already ailing social systems.
By GOB
March 30, 2006 02:51 PM | Link to this
Chuck - It was an illustration of a point. Throwing a disclaimer on something doesnt mean you can say anything you want without consequence. In my earlier response to you, I said I thought it was possible that you meant something different, and it just came out wrong. Instead of acknowledging that (which you have now done) you got defensive and said you put a disclaimer on it, so it was ok.
If you arent able to type on the fly without posting the kind of statement you did, maybe you should take more time.
By The72John
March 30, 2006 02:51 PM | Link to this
That’s pretty stupid even for you, GOB. I typed an incomplete BUT TRUE statement. You made up something false. You have absolutley NO SENSE of logic.
This has got to be the funniest thing I have ever read. Chuck, the most credulous, superstitous fool on the planet accuses someone else of not having logic. Please Chuck, just go back to your AnswersInGenesis website, where you can continue to wallow in wilful ignorance with the other stupid peasants who believe your trash faith.
By RF
March 30, 2006 02:51 PM | Link to this
Moose- I hear the stories, but what companies are hiring the illegals? We know somebody is, but do we know who is hiring them on any large scale? They’re here and obviously doing some kind of work. What companies do we go after for hiring them?
Methinks Net has a good idea. However, that would require getting our heads out of our collective butt and doing something besides chasing terrorists in some god-forsaken desert! Not likely in this lifetime hoss!!
By Chilao
March 30, 2006 02:55 PM | Link to this
2 topics in particular that I have studied extensively in scripture are homosexuality and creation
Let’s give Chuck credit now, the reason he spent all that time studying extensively is so that he could be accepting of others, we can be sure that was the intent. He really wanted to, he really did.
Mara - Interesting that the angels were only interested in ‘fair’ females. Do you detect a little northern European bias perhaps?
By Just Being Me
March 30, 2006 02:57 PM | Link to this
I also want you to know that Christians CAN disagree. There is some room for disagreement on a number of issues, but we don’t have to be disagreeable. I’ve been a Christian for 38 years.
I am well aware that Christians can disagree. I see you all do it quite often. As you know, this is the sole reason there are so many denominations in Christianity. I also agree that it is not necessary to be disagreeable. I say confidently (with the links below to prove it) that I have never initiated a conflict with anyone on this blog, including you. Your being a “Christian” for 38 years means absolutely nothing to me since I don’t think very highly of Christians, and especially since 38 years of Christianity hasn’t stopped you from disrespecting someone who follows the same Christ you claim to follow.
2 topics in particular that I have studied extensively in scripture are homosexuality and creation. I generally can quote scripture on these topics a little more quickly than others because I have debated them for the past 20 years.
To quote my mother, a parrot can quote scripture, but he can’t live it. I’ve never really been impressed by people who can quote scripture - even before the days of biblegateway.com and other online reference sites. The devil knows the Bible, and so do many others who do not follow Christ.
Furthermore, saying that you have “studied homosexuality and creation” means nothing unless you have studied it from more than one angle, which I know you haven’t. That’s like someone saying they are well versed in the war on terror because they studied under GWB, or they are well versed on the subject of our economy because they watch Fox News.
When you have read literature from the other side of both those two subjects, then we can talk (is it deja vu or did I tell you that months ago?).
That’s why I wanted you to read the post. I do want you to understand me a little better.
As I said, I understood you before I read your post. My understanding of you has not changed since reading it.
As for your #2 and #3:
2) The Bible has to be studied as a WHOLE DOCUMENT. In order to understand scripture, you have to understand this concept. Yes there are verses that “stand alone” in meaning. For instance, John 3:16, but for the most part, verses have to be studied IN CONTEXT as part of the whole. One of the mistakes that marginal Christians and NON-Christians make is to just pull verses out and USE them to justify whatever position they have taken on an issue. I will often wait to post an answer to a question that I am unsure of until I have a chance to study and search scripture. Sometimes I ask others that may know morew about a particular topic than I do, but when it comes to the Bible, I am from Missouri…you have to show me IN CONTEXT. I don’t believe it because someone said it.
If you particularly wanted me to read that, you’re preaching to the choir.
3) I could come in here and blow smoke, but that is NOT the Gospel. I don’t mean to beat anyone over the head with it, but I have deeply held, logical, scripture-based beliefs.
You don’t mean to, but that’s EXACTLY what you do. To go a step further, your sentence implies that you realize the wrong in beating someone over the head. If you realize it’s useless at best, why continue to do it? Who are you helping? Do you really think you are bringing that person closer to Christ? I think it was Lozen who said something months ago that just really stuck with me. If I may paraphrase, she said, “Boy, doesn’t that make you wanna just run to church and become a Christian?” That struck me hard, even though she was referring to something you had said. Do you really believe that anything you say to John or anyone brings them one step closer to Christ?
Just take one moment to forget about your mission, your deeply held beliefs. Forget about all the souls who will be lost if you don’t anger them with the Word.
Take one moment and ask yourself if you are really bringing them closer to Christ. Ask yourself if anyone here or lurking will want to go to church this Sunday or Sabbath as a result of reading your words on this blog.
By chuck
March 30, 2006 03:01 PM | Link to this
NO SUBSTANCE at all 72. You NEVER address ANY issue in a substantive way. You try to obfuscate the truth in an effort to keep people from seeing the superficiality of the positions you take on every subject. You really need to get a life. Maybe we could have YOU deported.
NETB, My GOD is DECIDEDLY NOT the same God as Osama Bin Laden. His God is an idol. Islam does not accept the Deity of Christ. They do not believe in the Trinity…God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit. Nor did I say that God was on the side of the USA. I do think that because we are the country that supports mission work around the world more than any other country, that we do sometimes find favor in God’s eyes above other countries. I also believe that we can lose that favor if we ever become the “secular” country that so many on this blog advocate.
As for your final paragraph, I would agree that as the world’s only remaining super power we should be trying to improve conditions in Latin America, Africa and Asia. I would posit that we are already doing that and have been since the Monroe Doctrine. Short of going in militarily, how do you propose that we overcome the affects of governmental corruption and residual effects of socialism that are keeping those efforts from being successful?
By Archie
March 30, 2006 03:01 PM | Link to this
I have to agree with 72John that I don’t believe God used Hitler to bring anything together. 72John is an atheist I think and I am not so the fact that we can agree means maybe there’s something wrong with someone’s interpretation as to how God used Hitler. As I said in a post yesterday we,christians,don’t understand what we say a lot of times. Sometimes christians say things that sound good to that christian person and only that christian person. I discussed homosexual marriage briefly at lunchtime at someone there said that the issue needs to be resolved but there was someone who was against primarily because of religion but my logic was about distribution of property. Christians say all kinds of things but I wouldn’t blame that on God.
By The72John
March 30, 2006 03:04 PM | Link to this
Furthermore, saying that you have “studied homosexuality and creation” means nothing unless you have studied it from more than one angle, which I know you haven’t
Lol - I bet he HAS studied it from…more than one angle…maybe in college or when he was a teenager. It explains his obsession with it.
Of course, Chuck is also the only person who I’ve ever encountered who can find 10,000 reasons int he Bible why it’s OK for him to judge and condemn others, but can’t even find ONE that makes him think that tolerance and acceptance is a good idea.
By The72John
March 30, 2006 03:09 PM | Link to this
Chuck, are you serious? Mr. I-cut-and-paste-everything is accusing me of not having substance? Are you NOT a credulous idiot who denies everything science has discovered in deference to a collection of works written by primitives? Nothing I said is innacurate - you are a fool.
By all means, continue to believe that you have ANYTHING intelligent to offer.
By chuck
March 30, 2006 03:12 PM | Link to this
That’s because there is NOTHING in the Bible that says we should TOLERATE OR ACCEPT SIN.
By The72John
March 30, 2006 03:12 PM | Link to this
72John is an atheist
Just because I don’t believe that God is the childish, bratty, snot-nosed, hateful, bigoted, limited attention whore that Chuck and many other Christians make him out to be does not make me an atheist.
Because I don’t believe that the Bible is the literal word of God, or anything other than the mythologies of a particular people does not make me an atheist.
By RF
March 30, 2006 03:13 PM | Link to this
Moose- the solutions are as complex as the problem itself. We should allow them to apply for citizenship in a more streamlined way. Base it on 5 yrs. of tax-paying employment with IRS records. That seems simple enough. I think after that length of time, we’d know if they were trying to assimilate or not.
I also think Net mentioned some good solutions. When we can ‘encourage’ their home governments to do something to improve life within their own borders, then maybe they won’t be so quick to sneak across ours.
I don’t think the case I pointed out is that much of a rarity. What are the stats? How many apply for citizenship every day? I have a sneaking suspicion that if it were easier to apply for and get citizenship, they wouldn’t be sneaking in illegally in such numbers.
No doubt we need to beef up the borders. Seems we have budgeted enough to homeland security already without any significant change. Yet another hole that federal spending will never fill.
By Julia
March 30, 2006 03:13 PM | Link to this
It’s been another hectic day at work…and a bad one too. Been run over with the bus by 2 co-workers (and that was before 10am). Not a happy camper today and am sorry I’ve missed the discussions.
Quickly, I want to say that alot of people here do not seem to understand the difference between the catholic church and the Christian church. Nor do they seem to understand the history of the bible. Things done by the catholic church have been chalked up to being Christian and they weren’t.
Some of the issues Net brought up are good examples of this. (Priests sexual abuse, adding indulgences & purgatory, adding the rosary, adding 5 sacraments to the 2 that are in the bible, saying only priests can interpret scripture, creating their own bible (Vulgate), etc)…I could go on but lack the time and space here to go into it.
Women were not excluded by Jesus or the apostles. Some of their sisters and daughters went with them to teach the gospel and spread the good news of Christ. The bible says there is no difference to God between man and woman in His eyes. Jesus Christ never belittled women or treated them as second class citizens. The bible also says that your “sons and your daughters” shall prophesy (sp?).
Jesus has set me free from being a slave to sin and has been my rock, my best friend, my comforter, and my Savior. If you’ve never met Him I guess it’s easy to doubt. But I have met Him and I do know Him and there is no doubt.
Lozen, Whiley and others-I get that you’ve never met Jesus and do not believe He is real. But there are those of us here-like JBM who KNOW He’s real. He’s made His presence very known. It’s not like believing in something like the tooth fairy-something that never makes itself known to you or provides you with any evidence of it’s existence.
I know that you don’t understand or believe what I’m saying. And I’m not going to force you to believe anything…ever. But just because you’ve never seen evidence of God’s existence doesn’t mean others haven’t.
By Mara
March 30, 2006 03:15 PM | Link to this
John the whole point is how they are trying to make a better life. Think about this. Ken Lay wanted a better life, too. Let’s not hold him accountable. See, I don’t get your argument saying I’m being “overly legalistic”. If something is against the law, it’s against the law for everyone. If you want to waive the law for the list of infractions for illegals, then you have to be willing to waive the same laws for American citizens too.
Or you could just admit that you don’t give a rats a— about the law and have done with it.
By chuck
March 30, 2006 03:15 PM | Link to this
BTW, when I say that homosexuality is a sin, I am not judging or condemning ANYONE. I am simply stating that it is a sin. If you believe that I am therefore judging you, you would be wrong. That must be the guilt talking. It isn’t me.
By GOB
March 30, 2006 03:16 PM | Link to this
Chuck - As we obviously have different beliefs, I am curious as to your thoughts to the infallability of the bible. Do you believe that the bible that we have today is the exact word of god that he wanted us to have? Nothing more, nothing less? If so, do you believe that the bible has not been altered at all since the oral tradition of the old testament? I really would like to hear your take on this.
By Jack
March 30, 2006 03:16 PM | Link to this
Where is that fan when I need it? (If thinking about something is as bad as doing it, I’m in trouble!)
By Netbanker
March 30, 2006 03:17 PM | Link to this
Lozen…I’m with you, honey.
Chuck…you are in a hole right now. Put down the shovel! The more you expose your beliefs about God the more you are losing people.
By Brian Curtis
March 30, 2006 03:17 PM | Link to this
Here’s a crazy notion on illegal immigrants: Why don’t we hire a few thousand of them in every major metro area to serve as undercover agents, ferreting out the companies that hire illegals? Then the feds can crack down on those companies and impose hefty penalties.
The payment to the “undercover workers” can be money and a free trip back to their home country, a guest/worker visa, or even a head start on citizenship.
By Renee
March 30, 2006 03:23 PM | Link to this
That’s because there is NOTHING in the Bible that says we should TOLERATE OR ACCEPT SIN.
Doesn’t sin occur on a daily basis, by every human being including Christians? If this is correct, then theoretically sin has to be tolerated and accepted. Then comes the question of the degree of sin which is tolerated. Most Christian denominations (or “dominations” lol) believe that everyone sins, but if you ask for forgiveness and do not repeat the same sin, then all is forgiven. What are the chances of someone not committing the same sin over and over, doesn’t even have to be daily, just repetitively. So the Christian in the corner has a problem with lying but he is Christian and asks for forgiveness, so this is a tolerable sin??
By Whiley
March 30, 2006 03:27 PM | Link to this
Julia you can believe whatever you like I suppose. The whole setup of it so flawed to me, full of obvious fairy tales, I just wonder how a normal thinking intelligent person can get so wrapped up in it. It’s like believing in Santa Clause your whole life. You read Santa books all the time, go to Santa group every Sunday, & give a percentage of your salary for the Santa house so all the little elves that run the Santa house can continue to spread the word. Your goal is to help bring new people to the Santa house because without members the electricity bills & payroll can’t be paid out. (and Santa really wants that 2006 Infinity) Everybody better behave or Santa won’t give you presents!
By Just Being Me
March 30, 2006 03:32 PM | Link to this
Chuck, for a quick lesson, take a look at how Julia does it. She doesn’t back down from what she believes, she doesn’t water down her message, or compromise the Word - and she does all that while maintaining a positive relationship with her fellow bloggers.
I’m willing to bet my home that if invited, more folks would be willing to join Julia at church one weekend than you.
(Don’t mean to drag you into this, Julia. Just trying to make a point).
You have to catch a fish before you clean it. How do you plan on catching any fish, chuck?
What is your plan for catching the fish here on this blog?
By Mara
March 30, 2006 03:33 PM | Link to this
Chilao - maybe European bias. I suppose it’d have to depend on what the “fair” girls looked like. Maybe they were actually ethnically asian or african. Wouldn’t that be a hoot, and one in the eye of eurocentrics? Heh, heh, heh. Actually the part that got me laughing was the “watchers”. Bunch of deviant voyeurs if you ask me! ROTFL!!
everyone, did I read chuck correctly when he said “My GOD is DECIDEDLY NOT the same God as Osama Bin Laden. His God is an idol. Islam does not accept the Deity of Christ. They do not believe in the Trinity…God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit.”
Um, as far as I know, Jews don’t accept the “deity” of Christ either and are pretty ambivilent with the idea of the trinity also. I suppose this means that the god of Abraham isn’t that the Jews and Muslims worship isn’t chucks god. Which is really confusing because most christian denominations admit that the jewish Torah is exactly the same as the first 5 books of the “Old Testament”. And since so many of the “Shall not’s” are in Leviticus, one would think chuck well aquainted with that fact. And since the Jews agree that the god of Abraham is the same god Muslims call Allah wouldn’t that require them to be the SAME as the god in Genesis? Wouldn’t it, chuck?
By FatMoose
March 30, 2006 03:37 PM | Link to this
I hear the stories, but what companies are hiring the illegals? We know somebody is, but do we know who is hiring them on any large scale? They’re here and obviously doing some kind of work. What companies do we go after for hiring them?
Hence why a mass exodus would be a vast $ drain - to many parameters to figure out before we can even look at spending $ to implement a punishment on these companies. I am speaking in the short term, not the long.
I have a sneaking suspicion that if it were easier to apply for and get citizenship, they wouldn’t be sneaking in illegally in such numbers.
The number of aliens we can take is figured by the strenght of our economy and other factors, not just a number pulled from a hat to MAKE it difficult. The fact is that we cannot sustain all of the aliens that wish to come here, so we have to (out of self presevation) limit the number of aliens.
Making it “easier” to be legal seems to just open the floodgates to stop slowly rising waters; so now they are quickly rising and will find a balance faster. This does nothing to solve the issue, and only makes it a quicker/harsher process for the US.
By The72John
March 30, 2006 03:40 PM | Link to this
So…when the Bible says “Love thy neighbor”, or “Judge not, lest ye be judged”, or talks about removing the beam in your own eye before you worry about the mote in someone elses…these don’t refer to tolerance?
That’s kind of ridiculous, don’t you think? After all, if you are enjoined not to judge, but it doesn’t apply to people who might deserve, in your opinion, to be judged, there’s not much of a challenge there, is there?
I mean, the Bible doesn’t say “Judge not, lest ye be judged, unless of course someone’s doing something wrong…then you can judge.” It doesn’t say “Love thy neighbor as thyself, unless of course he’s gay or something, then hate away”. It doesn’t say “Let he who is without sin throw the first stone, unless of course you’re stoning someone who is doing something wrong”.
This is why you are a horrible human being, Chuck - you read something that teaches compassion and acceptance and understanding, and all you see is judgement, condemnation, hatred, and punishment.
By Jack
March 30, 2006 03:40 PM | Link to this
Why would an angel settle for “fair” when they can get “excellent”?
By lozen
March 30, 2006 03:50 PM | Link to this
The jewish religion, the christian religion and the muslim religion all spring from Abraham and worship the same god whatever they may call that god.
By Mara
March 30, 2006 03:52 PM | Link to this
LOL! Jack Why indeed!!
ta-ta folks. See ya for Friday Jokes…
By RF
March 30, 2006 03:54 PM | Link to this
Moose- I think it’s safe to say there is no easy solution. I’m a teacher so I see the children of some of these immigrants every day. I know how badly they want to be here and how thankful they are to be here. They show more appreciation for education and the chance to work hard for a living than many natives. That’s just my perspective as a teacher.
By Netbanker
March 30, 2006 03:54 PM | Link to this
Well Chuck…actually your God IS the same as Osama’s because Islam is to Christianity as Christianity is to Judiasm. What is interesting is that some islamists wil call us infidels yet their own holy books (which use our Bible as of the birth of Islam as the Bible incorporates the Torah) call on them to respect the believers of The Book or The Faith. I can’t recall the exact wording, but basically they’re directed to be nice to Christians.
We can encourage reform of those corrupt governments the same way we have with Eastern European ones. Economic sanctions, loan guarantees, whatever. Diplomacy does actually work without military intervention.
By The72John
March 30, 2006 03:55 PM | Link to this
Or you could just admit that you don’t give a rats a— about the law and have done with it.
That is an innacurate assumption. I DO believe that some laws are less valuable than others, and anyone who doesn’t agree is not being honest with themselves.
I don’t consider sneaking across to border to be on the same scale as, say, burglary. I don’t think that we should PUNISH people for wanting to make a better life for themselves, and doing so in a way that doesn’t really hurt anyone. I think that targeting the immigrant rather than the American who IS knowingly and wilfully violating numerous laws is mean-spirited and intentionally divisive.
Please scroll up to see that I don’t believe that illegals shouldn’t have to make up for their transgression in some way. I just don’t believe that deportation is the answer, nor is treating them like a real criminal.
By chuck
March 30, 2006 03:56 PM | Link to this
GOB, I believe that the Bible in its original form is the unalterable, infallible Word of God. Translations of those original words are not exactly the same thing. Some are better than others. When I study the Bible, I have parallel texts in Hebrew and Greek that I use if there are things that aren’t clear. The most accurate translations are King James, New King James, and NIV. These 3 have proven themselves to be accurate through countless exhaustive studies by theologians.
Something else that is every bit as important though, Gob. An unbeliever has a very hard time UNDERSTANDING Scripture because they cannot study it the way God commanded us to…”in SPIRIT and in TRUTH. God speaks to Christians THROUGH His word. To a non-believer, there is a disconnect of sorts. Certainly a lost person can learn the history of God’s people and even how to live a better life, but he can never understand the deeper meaning of the Word. You cannot live out the Christian life apart from Christ.
By lozen
March 30, 2006 03:58 PM | Link to this
Yes, Whiley. I wonder about that too. I think it must be fear of god and being so unsure of your beliefs you have to have others to agree with you so you won’t doubt those beliefs (if you do, you’ll make god mad and he’ll send you to hell!) I wonder why atheists and agnostics don’t seem to feel a need to get together two or three times a week and tell each other their ideas are right and everybody else is wrong. They don’t need to sing songs about “no god” and preach to each other about “no god.” They don’t have to jump up and down, dance around or speak in tongues about “no god.” Atheists don’t collect money to proselytize in other countries about “no god.” Why is that?
By Julia
March 30, 2006 04:03 PM | Link to this
Thanks for the encouragement JBM.
And anyone here (and I mean ANYONE) is more than welcome to come to my church anytime they would like. I’ll even buy lunch afterwards. ;)
All I know is that Jesus has turned my life around and has always been there for me. He loves everyone here on this blog and welcomes you to get to know Him (whenever you’re willing).
Been having to turn the other cheek at work today…boy sometimes that’s HARD! Seems to be “pass the buck” day at work. Oh well, as Scarlett said “tomorrow is another day”…
By Chilao
March 30, 2006 04:03 PM | Link to this
Mara - you may be gone but Chilao - maybe European bias
Yeah, I have seen some mighty fine ‘fair’ Turks, North Africans, Greeks, Italians. LOL
maybe it is me translating “fair” as “light”. maybe “fair” in this context merely means ‘desirable’, that would certainly get some females all over the world.
I think there are some Islamists, Osama comes to mind, who think that THEY are right. hmmmmmmm.
By GOB
March 30, 2006 04:07 PM | Link to this
An unbeliever has a very hard time UNDERSTANDING Scripture because they cannot study it the way God commanded us to…”in SPIRIT and in TRUTH.
So there is more to the bible than the words that are written? Is there some physical sensation you get? I am trying to understand what the real difference is between a believer reading the bible and someone who questions it. A believer will suffer the same problem as a non-believer, in that both go into the reading with pre-concieved notions of what the book is trying to say. Because of this fact, you cant say that only a believer can really understand what is written.
Also, if you have to be a believer to really understand the bible and study it correctly, does that mean that a non-believer will not be brought to god through the words of god?
By Netbanker
March 30, 2006 04:08 PM | Link to this
That must be the guilt talking. It isn’t me. MMMM…it’s not guilt, but that fool me twice thing. I’ve rarely met a ‘christian’ who didn’t make statements about homosexuality being a sin that weren’t pretty immediately followed up by some very serious and extremely nasty judgements. I’m not claiming you fall into that category, Chuck. It’s just a reality many of us have personally experienced.
What is your plan for catching the fish here on this blog? I’m thinking it’s the dynamite approach to fishing. You throw in the stick…when it goes off you scoop up the stunned fish that float to the top. (giggling hard)
Julia…sorry to hear about that rough day. Sounds more like one coworker shoved you in front of the bus while the other ran over you with it?
Whiley…I sometimes understand how intelligent people get pulled in. If you think really hard about the world today and all of the mean-spiritedness and evil it gets REALLY depressing. Suspension of a little reality in exchange for peace of mind and hearing a message of love is quite appealing. If it weren’t for the gay=going to hell thing I heard in church growing up I’d still be an active member. My lil’ country church was really an extended family of generally nice people who do honestly care about and for each other. If I could take the people and ditch some of the theology then I’d be in.
By lozen
March 30, 2006 04:09 PM | Link to this
And here it is. The old saw “they can’t understand the bible because they don’t believe in it already” bunk. We just can’t understand the bible unless we have that carpenter whose father killed him to save us from our sins in our hearts! That is the only way. I think that’s number 54 in the list of ridiculous things christians say when anyone questions their beliefs.
By Chilao
March 30, 2006 04:11 PM | Link to this
lozen - I think it must be fear of god and being so unsure of your beliefs you have to have others to agree with you so you won’t doubt those beliefs
I call it the validation routine and when people come up to me at the gas station, eager to convert me and I come out with “Oh, a little of the validation routine here” man, do they get p-ssed off. LOL
Although I had a Baptist come into my yard(no small feat) to invite me to church recently, I politely told him I was not interested and he left. (rather than try to continue the convo). That was nice of him.
JBM - good point about Julia vs. Chuck.
By RF
March 30, 2006 04:11 PM | Link to this
nothing personal here Chuck, but I hear people all the time talk about the “deeper meaning” of the scripture. What exactly do they mean by that? Is there some sort of secret code you only get to know if you make it into the inner circle or something? I seriously have never, as long as I’ve known God, understood why the Bible is supposed to be so “mysterious”.I’ve always found it basically readable and understandable. Seems like God would want people to pick it up and read it and get to know him. Otherwise, why would they put one in hotel rooms? LOL
By chuck
March 30, 2006 04:11 PM | Link to this
Sorry Renee, I was unclear. What I was referring to there is unrepentent sin. Even a Christian can have a sin stronghold in their lives…a sin that they struggle with. God expects us to be OVERCOMERS. Since I was saved, I have never sinned, that I didn’t almost immediately feel a prompting of the Holy Spirit to recognize the sin, repent of it (that means turn away from it and go in the opposite direction)and ask for forgiveness. When I study the Bible, God uses it to bring to mind changes that I need to make in my own life. In spite of what some on here would have you to believe, I have never even hinted to any idea that I was perfect. I clearly know when I have sinned and it happens all too often. I also know, that God is not going to tolerate Habitual sin in the life of a believer. The believer will not lose his salvation, but there are always consequences.
Something else that I ought to be a little more clear about. The SIN of homosexuality is not going to send anyone to hell. The only sin that will ever send anyone to hell is the sin of blasphemy of the Holy Spirit. In brief, what that is is the rejection of Jesus Christ as Savior and Lord. The Holy Spirit acts as the conscience in the life of a believer. In the life of an unbeliever His function is to call to repentence and acceptance of Christ. We don’t know how long or how often that call will come, so if we say NO over and over again the danger is that there will not be any more chances. One cannot become a Christian unless they are drawn to Christ by the Holy Spirit. So the bottom line is, the only sin that sends anyone to hell is that last rejection of the Holy Spirit’s call.
By The72John
March 30, 2006 04:15 PM | Link to this
Interesting, isn’t it, how so many of Chuck’s posts about religion revolve around exclusion rather than inclusion. The inconsistencies in anything he claims are attributed to some deficiency in Non-Christians. Non-Christians can’t REALLY know what the Bible says. Non-Christians can’t REALLY undestand what Jesus taught.
Everything revolves around Chuck’s superior knowledge and understanding of everything, which he posesses because he is…Christian.
By Netbanker
March 30, 2006 04:18 PM | Link to this
Furthermore, saying that you have “studied homosexuality and creation” means nothing unless you have studied it from more than one angle Does this mean you have to try as a top AND a bottom?
By FatMoose
March 30, 2006 04:22 PM | Link to this
Moose- I think it’s safe to say there is no easy solution. I’m a teacher so I see the children of some of these immigrants every day. I know how badly they want to be here and how thankful they are to be here. They show more appreciation for education and the chance to work hard for a living than many natives. That’s just my perspective as a teacher.
I can appriciate the perspective you have and how it influences your persistence in thinking about how this subject can be solved while thinking about how it would effect them. I am sure that what you see is true and in ways breaks your heart. Hopefully the means that we do use will not harm those innocent little ones.
By lozen
March 30, 2006 04:23 PM | Link to this
Well, Netbanker, honey. You went to a different church than I did. There it was all about judging others (chuck isn’t the only one who ignores what jesus said), gossip, “I can’t believe she woah THAT thing to church?” “You know she’s foolin’ around with that Allen boy!” “You can look at the dark circles under her eyes and tell she’s not a virgin!” He runs around on his wife; you can tell by the way his pants hang down in the back!” (I kid you not.) Then to make it even more appealing the minister (with the 6th grade education, (he was called, you know) got up and yelled and screamed and cried and threatened us with hell fire and brimstone and eternal damnation unless we came up there and repented and were saved. And the sunday school teacher was preaching that if god meant for white and black people to live in the same neighborhoods, we would have been born in the same neighborhoods. I know all churches aren’t exactly like that but they’re all based on the same totalitarian ideas of christianity. They are the only ones who worship the real god. As Bill Gates said, “I have so many more profitable things to do with my time than attend church.” So Julia, bless your heart. No thaaank yew!
By Renee
March 30, 2006 04:24 PM | Link to this
Actually blasphemy is defamation against God and/or his name. You can reject the Lord without being blasphemous (sp?).
By Renee
March 30, 2006 04:25 PM | Link to this
What is your plan for catching the fish here on this blog? I’m thinking it’s the dynamite approach to fishing. You throw in the stick…when it goes off you scoop up the stunned fish that float to the top. (giggling hard)
Too funny, as is your 4:18. I needed that laugh today!
By kimberly
March 30, 2006 04:26 PM | Link to this
I believe in Jesus Christ IN SPITE OF un-Christlike people like Chuck and Zack. Not because of… Even so, nothing I’ve ever read or experienced personally regarding Jesus Christ has ever led me to believe I’m supposed to have a hissy fit if John loves a man instead of a woman. NOTHING. (In fact, pretending to love a woman just to please the Chuck-monsters WOULD BE evil.) And I don’t think the Bible is some infallible instrument of God. It was written, compiled, translated, and maintained by MEN WHO WANT MONEY AND POWER. Men who elevate themselves above others. Men who lie, steal, cheat, kill, and molest in the name of their God. Nope. Step off, thumpers. I don’t CARE what you have to say. The Creator and His messengers actually DO deliver personal messages, and NOT messages to go out and preach hate, or to lie, steal, cheat, kill, and molest in the name of their God. Just my two cents. Gotta go produce.
By Just Being Me
March 30, 2006 04:26 PM | Link to this
I just want to say this one time since I don’t think I’ve said it before.
I understand very clearly that some of you don’t believe in the Bible or in God, or perhaps have spiritual/religious beliefs that are different from mine.
Regardless of what I think about Buddhism, Catholicism, Hinduism, Atheism or Agnosticism, it is just plain rude to berate someone because of what they believe (and usually hold dear to their hearts).
You can question their beliefs, question their sacred texts, even question their God. I’d like to think that the “god” (or “God”) in which we believe is strong enough to withstand your unbelief; but, people (even anonymous bloggers) have feelings. It is SO ugly, and SO unnecessary to question a person’s intelligence because they choose to believe in a god that you don’t (or a UFO, for that matter).
By chuck
March 30, 2006 04:27 PM | Link to this
Let me use an analogy RF. A High school student can gain a basic understanding of United States History. He can tell you some names and dates, maybe even be able to explain the root causes of the Civil War.
A historian on the other hand, can analyze that same history, pinpoint accurately the events that led to some great moment in history and, more importantly, he can APPLY that history in context to current and future events. He can make predictions and spot patterns that have developed through time.
Christians read the Bible through different eyes and with a different motivation than unbelievers. We are SEEKING to know God’s will and His purpose for our lives. Look at the conversion of the Ethiopian Eunuch by Philip. The Eunuch could read the word, but he needed a believer to show him the saving power of it.
By Julia
March 30, 2006 04:28 PM | Link to this
Net-Thank you. Yes! That’s how it felt alright. The darn bus didn’t even have a horn so I could jump out of the way.
Have you ever seen those bumper stickers that say “Horn Broke…Watch For Finger”??? Maybe we could have a day of funniest bumper stickers.
By The72John
March 30, 2006 04:29 PM | Link to this
I have never sinned, that I didn’t almost immediately feel a prompting of the Holy Spirit to recognize the sin, repent of it (that means turn away from it and go in the opposite direction)and ask for forgiveness
Wow, I mean, I know the Holy Spirit must be pretty powerful, but even so, hovering over your shoulder letting you know you’ve sinned must be a full-time job. No wonder the rest of the world is going to hell in a handbasket - God’s too busy tapping Chuck on the shoulder to do anything else.
By lozen
March 30, 2006 04:31 PM | Link to this
Someone who works here has a bumper sticker saying, “Loving kindness is my religion.” I love that.
By Chilao
March 30, 2006 04:32 PM | Link to this
Does this mean you have to try as a top AND a bottom?
we always knew you were a sharp guy, Net, but that is PhD material. LOL
I thought he was talking about those J. Stryker toys. LMAO
By FatMoose
March 30, 2006 04:32 PM | Link to this
Chuck,
Have you wrestled with why the bible would supposedly call out homosexual men and not women? Does that NOT seem odd to you? In all your studying of homosexuality, have you not asked that obvious question? The answer IS there especially if you have greek text to compare against (Hence why I do not believe you.).
You go and study on this lone concept for a while and see what you come up with. And remember, studying is the act of looking for TRUTH, not looking for only specific items that back a current belief. I do not have any real faith you CAN perform in this manner bc it is the scientific process that you have already shown you do not understand; but here is your chance to redeem(sp?) yourself.
By Julia
March 30, 2006 04:33 PM | Link to this
Since I was saved, I have never sinned, that I didn’t almost immediately feel a prompting of the Holy Spirit to recognize the sin, repent of it (that means turn away from it and go in the opposite direction)and ask for forgiveness.
I have to agree with Chuck on this one…from personal experience.
By chuck
March 30, 2006 04:33 PM | Link to this
That’s not really an accurate statement Renee. Yes in a human sense the word BLASPHEMY by itself refers to taking ?God’s name in vain. However, the term scripture uses for rejection of God is Blasphemy of the Holy Spirit.
Matthew 12:30-32 (New International Version) New International Version (NIV) Copyright © 1973, 1978, 1984 by International Bible Society
30”He who is not with me is against me, and he who does not gather with me scatters. 31And so I tell you, every sin and blasphemy will be forgiven men, but the blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven.
By GOB
March 30, 2006 04:38 PM | Link to this
Christians read the Bible through different eyes and with a different motivation than unbelievers.
Chuck - Isnt it possible that the non-unbeliever can actually read the bible with a more open mind? And by non-believer, I dont mean a devout athiest. I am talking about people who simply dont claim to have the answers already. I tend to fall more into the agnostic camp, so i dont take as many preconcieved notions into my understanding of what the bible is trying to say.
If you have your mind made up before you begin to study the bible, how much are you really learning?
By Julia
March 30, 2006 04:38 PM | Link to this
Lozen-I’m sorry about your bad experience at that church. I’m getting a better understanding of why you reject Christianity. Believe me, most churches are NOT like that. We have a great group of people who care for one another and support one another (like Net was talking about earlier).
I understand though. And the offers always good.
By Julia
March 30, 2006 04:44 PM | Link to this
And I don’t think the Bible is some infallible instrument of God. It was written, compiled, translated, and maintained by MEN WHO WANT MONEY AND POWER. Men who elevate themselves above others. Men who lie, steal, cheat, kill, and molest in the name of their God.
Kimberly, I have nothing but respect for you but you couldn’t be more wrong about the bible.
By GOB
March 30, 2006 04:51 PM | Link to this
Julia - I think that most of the people that actually wrote and translated what we know as the bible were well-meaning people. The problem is the leadership of the church over the centuries. The church was, in fact, run by men who wanted money and power, and who had no problem twisting the bible in order to expand their wealth.
By FatMoose
March 30, 2006 04:54 PM | Link to this
For lighthearted comparison:
Heck, the beatles were far from perfect people, but their music is still shows evidence of being inspired by the divine.
And they were “Men who lie, steal, cheat, kill, and molest (more acurately: take advantage of groopies) in the name of their God (music).” But it is still good stuff and one can learn loads from it.
By Just Being Me
March 30, 2006 04:54 PM | Link to this
I guess I must be speaking a foreign language today… either that, or my points and questions weren’t worth responding to.
By Netbanker
March 30, 2006 04:55 PM | Link to this
Seems to be “pass the buck” day at work. Julia…tell ‘em you’ve switched to Euros or Pounds Sterling!
Otherwise, why would they put one in hotel rooms? LOL Come on RF! They put that in there hoping people won’t sin in the bed! hehehehe
By Whiley
March 30, 2006 04:55 PM | Link to this
Lozen, I’m feeling the need to have other people pay for all my expenses & I’m feeling the need to tell large groups of people what to do. Think I’ll start the Church of the fabulous Fairies. All those in charge are female & must drink of the holy (margaritas) at the holy service held every night around 6:30pm. We’ll take our readings from OH Magazine & People. If we pass the hats around twice during service we’ll rake up enough holy money to hire Kenny Chesney to sing our hymns for our Republican Sacrifice party at the end of the year.
And it will all be tax free !
Amen !
By FatMoose
March 30, 2006 04:58 PM | Link to this
Well, I forgot to omit “kill.”
The beatles never did that.
By Whiley
March 30, 2006 05:03 PM | Link to this
BLASPHEMY: Something that must never be allowed under any circumstances because we don’t want anyone figuring out what the real deal is. Plus, who’s going to pay my salary if everybody figures out it’s all a scam? Dang we’re going to all have to find real jobs. Wonder if Santa Clause is hiring?
signed:
The Pope
By Netbanker
March 30, 2006 05:04 PM | Link to this
Lozen…it does sound like our churches were a tad different. We did belong to a fire and brimstone church, but transferred to a small, country church with a message of love and kindness. You’ve got me on the gossip thing, but you know with a ‘bless his/her heart’ it’s like you never said a thing. Gossip in small towns happens EVERYWHERE…it is the #1 sport of the South..followed by football and then shopping. I just think the quality of the gossip is higher at church because it’s a sin to lie, you know. (grin)
By Mara
March 31, 2006 08:20 AM | Link to this
since we were on the subject of religeon -
A man finally goes with his wife to church. The man was so impressed with the preacher’s sermon he stopped on the way out to shake his hand.
“Preacher, I’ll tell you, that was a DAMNED fine sermon.” The preacher says “Why thank you sir, but we don’t used profanity in the house of the Lord”.
The man says, “But preacher, that was the best DAMNED sermon I ever heard.” The preacher says again, “sir I must be blunt, DO NOT use curse words in the Lords house again”.
The man says “Well I was so impressed with your sermon that I placed $1000 dollars in the collection plate”.
The preacher says “NO S**”?
By Renee
March 31, 2006 08:27 AM | Link to this
LOL good one Mara
By Renee
March 31, 2006 08:31 AM | Link to this
God breathes life into Adam and tells him… “You are man, my most favored creation, because of this I am going to give you the p***, and the brain.”
Adam replies…”Thank you lord, thank you so much, thank you.
God says back to him, “Don’t get to excited, there’s a catch.”
Adam asks, “What is the catch?”
God answers, “I’m only going to give you enough blood in your body to use one of that a time.”
By Julia
March 31, 2006 08:36 AM | Link to this
I am sooooooooo glad it’s joke day! :)
Taoism: Sh!t happens.
Buddhism: If sh!t happens, it’s not really sh!t.
Islaml: If sh!t happens, it’s the will of Allah.
Protestantism: Sh!t happens because you don’t work hard enough.
Judaism: Why does this sh!t always happen to us?
Hinduism: This sh!t happened before.
Catholicism: Sh!t happens because you’re bad.
Hare Krishna: Sh!t happens rama rama.
T.V. Evangelism: Send more sh!t.
Atheism: No sh!t.
Jehova’s Witness: Knock knock, sh!t happens.
Hedonism: There’s nothing like a good sh!t happening.
Christian Science: Sh!t happens in your mind.
Agnosticism: Maybe sh!t happens, maybe it doesn’t.
Rastafarianism: Let’s smoke this sh!t.
Existentialism: What is sh!t anyway?
Stoicism: This sh!t doesn’t bother me.
By Renee
March 31, 2006 08:37 AM | Link to this
Clinton walks out into his garden one day and in the snow he says “b-a-s-t-a-r-d” written in urine. He is so outraged he goes into the oval office and calls the CIA and FBI to tell them to find out who did this horrible thing to his garden. So they go out and investigate and when they return they say “Well Bill, we’ve got bad news and we’ve got worse news, which one would you like to hear first?” And Bill says, “What’s the bad news?” The agent replies, “It was Al Gore.” Aghast Bill yells, “That dirty no good son of a b__!!!!! What’s the worse news?” So the agent says, “It was Hillary’s handwriting…”
By Renee
March 31, 2006 08:40 AM | Link to this
While walking down the street, Dubya was struck by a large wheel of cheese that fell out of SwissAir flight 19.
Sadly. George does not make it and his soul arrives in heaven and he is met by St. Peter at the Pearly Gates.
“Welcome George!”…says St. Peter…”we seldom see Republicans here, so we’re not sure what to do.”
“No problem Pete, let me in I’m worthy”…says Dubya.
“I’d like to but I have orders from the Man Himself, he says you have to spend one day in hell then one day in heaven so you choose where you’ll live for eternity.”
“I’ve made up my mind, I want to be in heaven”…says Dubya.
“I’m sorry, but we have rules”…so, St. Peter escorted him to an elevator and he goes down, down, down, all the way to hell.
The doors open, and he finds himself in the middle of a country club, it’s 72 degrees, no oil shortage here!
There’s a Texas-style barbecue with cloned cattle and genetically engineered corn.
Standing in the crowd are other Republicans who had helped him out over the years.
Expensively dressed, Jerry Falwell, Dick Cheney and Rush Limbaugh, greet him, then they reminisce about getting rich at the expense of the poor and the liberals.
Soon, the devil approaches Bush, then says…”have a milk shake and relax, Dubya”
Dubya drinks the shake, and takes a liking to the devil, but it is now time to go.
Dubya got on the elevator then returns to heaven and St. Peter says…”now it’s time to visit heaven.”
So for 24 hours Bush hung out with a bunch of honest, good-natured animal rights activists, people who enjoy talking of family values instead of money and power.
“All these people are poor!”…Dubya thought to himself, “Pat Robertson never prepared me for this!”
St. Peter returned, then said…”so, you’ve spent a day in hell and a day in heaven, now you must choose.”
The Jeopardy theme plays softly as Dubya reflects for a minute, then says…”I belong in hell with my friends.”
So St. Peter put him on the elevator and he went down, down, down all the way to hell.
The doors of the elevator open, and he finds himself in the middle of this barren, scorched earth, covered with leaking 55-gallon drums of toxic industrial waste, kinda like Gary, Indiana.
Horrified, Dubya sees his friends dressed in rags, and picking up the industrial waste with teaspoons.
Lucifer comes over to Dubya then puts an arm around his shoulder and says…”thank you!”
“What happened?!”…says Dubya…”yesterday I had a Texas barbecue, we had a wonderful time, now there’s a wasteland and everybody seems miserable!”
The devil smiled, and explained…”see, yesterday I was campaigning…today I got your vote!”
By Renee
March 31, 2006 08:48 AM | Link to this
By the time a Marine pulled into a little town, every hotel room was taken. ”You’ve got to have a room somewhere,” he pleaded. ”Or just a bed, I don’t care where.” ”Well, I do have a double room with one occupant, a Navy guy,” admitted the manager, ”and he might be glad to split the cost. But to tell you the truth, he snores so loudly that people in adjoining rooms have complained in the past. I’m not sure it’d be worth it to you.” ”No problem,” the tired Marine assured him. ”I’ll take it.” The next morning the Marine came down to breakfast bright-eyed and bushy-tailed. ”How’d you sleep?” asked the manager. ”Never better.” The manager was impressed. ”No problem with the other guy snoring, then?” ”Nope, I shut him up in no time,” said the Marine. ”How’d you manage that?” asked the manager. ”He was already in bed, snoring away, when I came in the room,” the Marine explained. ”I went over, gave him a kiss on the cheek, said, ‘Goodnight, beautiful,’ and he sat up all night watching me.”
By Renee
March 31, 2006 08:53 AM | Link to this
A little old lady answered a knock on the door one day, only to be confronted by a well-dressed young man carrying a vacuum cleaner.
“Good morning,” said the young man. “If I could take a couple minutes of your time, I would like to demonstrate the very latest in high-powered vacuum cleaners.”
“Go away!” said the old lady. “I haven’t got any money” and she tried to close the door. Quick as a flash, the young man wedged his foot in the door and pushed it wide open.
“Don’t be too hasty!” he said. “Not until you have at least seen my demonstration.” And with that, he emptied a bucket of horse sh!t all over her hallway carpet.
“If this vacuum cleaner does not remove all traces of this horse sh!t from your carpet, Madam, I will personally eat the remainder.”
“Well,” she said, “I hope you’ve got a good appetite, because the electricity was cut off this morning.”
By Mara
March 31, 2006 08:55 AM | Link to this
Renee, LOL right back atcha!! I don’t know which one I liked more. I think the “Hillary’s handwriting” one, cuz everyone always said Gore was stiff….and that’d prove it! WAHAAHAHAHAHA!!!
By Just Being Me
March 31, 2006 08:56 AM | Link to this
And the ladies are off to quite a start! Hilarious, ladies! I’ll see if I can slip in one or two before the day ends.
By Renee
March 31, 2006 08:57 AM | Link to this
One day, down in the mystical forest, a magical frog was hopping towards a water hole. The forest was so enormous that the frog had never laid eyes on another animal before. But today, by chance a bear was chasing after a rabbit to have for dinner.
The frog called for the two to stop and said, “Because you are the only two animals I have seen, I will grant both of you three wishes. Bear, you can go first.” The bear thought for a moment, and being the male he was, said, “I wish for all the bears in this forest, apart from me, to be female.”
For his wish, the rabbit asked for a crash helmet, and immediately put it on. The bear was amazed at the stupidity of the rabbit, wasting his wish like that.
It was the bear’s second turn for a wish. “Well, I wish that all the bears in the next forest were female as well.”
The rabbit asked for a motorcycle and immediately hopped on it and roared the engine. The bear was shocked that the rabbit was asking for such idiotic items, because after all, he could have asked for money and bought the bike.
For the last wish the bear thought for a while and then said, “I wish that all the bears in the world, apart from me, were female.”
The rabbit grinned, roared the engine, and said, “I wish that the bear was gay.”
By Julia
March 31, 2006 09:01 AM | Link to this
There was this atheist swimming in the ocean. All of sudden he sees this shark in the water, so he starts swimming towards his boat. As he looks back he sees the shark turn and head towards him. His boat is a way off and he starts swimming like crazy. He’s scared to death, and he turns to see the jaws of the great white beast open revealing its teeth in horrific splendor.
The atheist then screams, “Oh God! Save me!” In an instant, time is frozen and a bright light shines down from above. The man is motionless in the water when he hears the voice of God say, “You are an atheist. Why do you call upon me when you do not believe in me?”
The atheist, with confusion and knowing he can’t lie, replies, “Well, that’s true, I don’t believe in you, but how about the shark? Can you make the shark believe in you?”
The Lord replies, “As you wish,” and the light retracted back into the heavens and the man could feel the water begin to move once again.
As the atheist looks back he can see the jaws of the shark start to close down on him, when all of a sudden the shark stops and pulls back. Relieved, the man looks at the shark as the huge beast closes its eyes and bows its head and says………..
“Thank you Lord for this food which I am about to receive…..”
By Just Being Me
March 31, 2006 09:01 AM | Link to this
There was a barber (named Chuck, of course) that thought that he should share his faith with his customers more than he had been doing lately. So the next morning when the sun came up and Chuck got up out of bed he said, “Today I am going to witness to the first man that walks through my door.”
Soon after he opened his shop the first man came in and said, “I want a shave!” Chuck said, “Sure, just sit in the seat and I’ll be with you in a moment.” The barber went in the back and prayed a quick desperate prayer saying, “God, the first customer came in and I’m going to witness to him. So give me the wisdom to know just the right thing to say to him. Amen.”
Then quickly Chuck came out with his razor knife in one hand and a Bible in the other while saying “Good morning sir. I have a question for you… Are you ready to die?”
I’m sure he meant well.
By Mara
March 31, 2006 09:06 AM | Link to this
A guy is stranded on a desert island all alone for ten years. One day he sees a speck on the horizon. He thinks to himself, “It’s not a ship.” The speck gets a little closer and he thinks, “It’s not a boat.” The speck gets even closer and he thinks, “It’s not a raft.” Then, out of the surf comes this gorgeous blonde woman wearing a wet suit and scuba gear. She comes up to the guy and she says, “How long has it been since you’ve had a cigarette?”
“Ten years!”, he says.
She reaches over, unzips this waterproof pocket on her left sleeve and pulls out a pack of fresh cigarettes. He takes one, lights it, takes a long drag and says, “Man, oh man! Is that good!”
Then she asked, “How long has it been since you’ve had a drink of whiskey?”
He replies, “Ten years!” She reaches over, unzips her waterproof pocket on the right, pulls out a flask and gives it to him. He takes a long swig and says, “Wow! That’s fantastic!”
Then she starts unzipping this long zipper that runs down the front of her wet suit and she says to him, “And how long has it been since you’ve had some REAL fun?”
And the man replies, “My God! Don’t tell me you’ve got a computer in there?”
(I’m guessing he has a W2W addiction…LOL - Mara)
By Renee
March 31, 2006 09:07 AM | Link to this
A farmer goes out one day and buys a brand new stud rooster for his chicken coop. The young rooster walks over to the old rooster and says, “Ok, old fellow, time to retire.” The old rooster says, “You can’t handle all these chickens . . look at what it did to me!” The young rooster replies, “Now, don’t give me a hassle about this. Time for the old to step aside and the young to take over, so take a hike.” The old rooster says, “Aw, c’mon …just let me have the two old hens over in the corner. I won’t bother you.” The young rooster says, “Scram! Beat it! You’re washed up! I’m taking over!” The old rooster thinks for a minute and then says to the young rooster, “I’ll tell you what, young fellow, I’ll have a race around the farmhouse with you. Whoever wins the race gets domain of the chicken coop.” The young rooster says, “You know I’m going to beat you, old man,so just to be fair, I’m even going to give you a head start.” They line up in back of the farm house, get a chicken to cluck “Go!” and the old rooster takes off running. About 15 seconds later the young rooster takes off after him. They round the front of the farm house and the young rooster is only about 5 inches behind the old rooster and gaining fast. The farmer, sitting on the porch, looks up, sees what’s going on, grabs his shotgun and BOOM!……he blows the young rooster to bits. He sadly shakes his head and says, “Damnit, third gay rooster I bought this week!”
By Mara
March 31, 2006 09:08 AM | Link to this
JBM - ROTFLMAO!!!
By Netbanker
March 31, 2006 09:11 AM | Link to this
Excellent way to start the day ladies! You’re off to a roaring start.
By Chilao
March 31, 2006 09:14 AM | Link to this
Renee, Julia, JBM, Mara,
HILARIOUS!! all
you mean some guys can go when it is stiff? who knew? LMAO
By RF
March 31, 2006 09:25 AM | Link to this
ROFL—goooood ones ladies!! I liked the list Julia—that was too good!!
By Julia
March 31, 2006 09:25 AM | Link to this
WARNING: THIS IS A JOKE.
There were two roommates in college, one a believer and one not. One day they were discussing the validity of God. The believer said to the non-believer, give me five good reasons why God does not exist and we will go from there. The nonbeliever thought for a while and finally came up with his five reasons. He said to the believer, “can you see God?”
“No,” said the believer.
“Can you smell God?”
“Not really,” said the believer.
“Can you touch God?”
“No,” said the believer.
“What about taste?”
“No,” said the believer.
“Well can you hear God?”.
“Well, yes I can hear God, in the wind and stuff”.
“Well,” said the nonbeliever, “four out five, God does not exist.”
The believer thought and asked for a while to think about it. Finally he came back and said to his friend, “Okay. Can you touch your brain?”
“No.” “Can you see your brain?”
“Nope.”
“Can you smell your brain?”
“No.”
“What about hear it?”
“I guess not,” replied the nonbeliever
“Then can you taste your brain?”
“No.”
“Well then,” said the believer, “I guess it is pretty obvious. Five out five, you have no brain.”
By Renee
March 31, 2006 09:25 AM | Link to this
LOL JBM & Julia…hahahahaha
By Julia
March 31, 2006 09:27 AM | Link to this
My grandson was visiting one day when he asked, “Grandma, do you know how you and God are alike?” I mentally polished my halo while I asked, “No, how are we alike?” “You’re both old,” he replied.
By Chilao
March 31, 2006 09:28 AM | Link to this
anybody see Leno last night?
News item:
apparently two endangered and restored-to-the-wild California condors were seen mating recently. Naturalists and wildlife management folk were all excited, until they realized it was two males.
By Renee
March 31, 2006 09:29 AM | Link to this
Answering Service At Mental Institute
“Hello, and welcome to the mental health hotline.
If you are obsessive-compulsive, press 1 repeatedly.
If you are codependent, please ask someone to press 2 for you.
If you have multiple personalities, press 3,4,5, and 6.
If you are paranoid, we know who you are and what you want. Stay on the line so we can trace your call.
If you are delusional, press 7 and your call will transferred to the mother ship.
If you are schizophrenic, listen carefully and a small voice will tell you which number to press.
If you are manic depressive, it doesn’t matter which number you press, no one will answer.
If you have a nervous disorder, please fidget with the hash key until someone comes on the line.
If you are dyslexic, press 6969696969.
If you have amnesia, press 8 and state your name, address, phone number, date of birth, social security number, and your mother’s maiden name.
If you have post-traumatic-stress disorder, slowly and carefully press 000.
If you have bipolar disorder, please leave a message after the beep, or before the beep, or after the beep. Please wait for the beep.
If you have short-term memory loss, press 9. If you have short term memory loss, press 9. If you have short term memory loss, press 9. If you have short term memory loss, press 9.
If you have low self esteem, please hang up. All our operators are too busy to talk to you.”
By The72John
March 31, 2006 09:33 AM | Link to this
There was a flood in a village.
One man said to everyone, “I’ll stay! God will save me!”
The flood got higher and a boat came and the man in it said “Come on mate, get in!”
“No” replied the man. God will save me!
The flood got very high now and the man had to stand on the roof of his house.
A helicopter soon came and the man offered him help.”
No, God will save me!” he said
Eventually he died by drowning.
He got by the gates of heaven and he said to God “Why didn’t you save me?”
God replied, “For goodness sake! I sent a boat and a helicopter. What more do you want!”
By The72John
March 31, 2006 09:35 AM | Link to this
Little Johnny’s father asked him, “Do you know about the birds and the bees?”
“I don’t want to know!” little Johnny said, bursting into tears.
Confused, the father asked little Johnny what was wrong.
“Oh dad,” Little Johnny sobbed, “At age six I got the ‘there’s no Santa’ speech. At age seven I got the ‘there’s no Easter bunny’ speech. Then at age 8 you hit me with the ‘there’s no tooth fairy’ speech! If you’re going to tell me now that grown-ups don’t really f***, I’ve got nothing left to live for!”
By withdrawal symptom prozac
March 31, 2006 09:41 AM | Link to this
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By Renee
March 31, 2006 09:48 AM | Link to this
hahahahaha to the prozac spam, that’s actually funny….
By Netbanker
March 31, 2006 09:52 AM | Link to this
Julia and Mara…very funny! It’s gonna be a great day…It’s Friday, the sun is shining, the temps have finally gone up.
OK…quick question on ordination etiquette…what is an appropriate gift for a newly ordained minister? My friend and next door neighbor is being ordained tonight and we’re just a tad stumped on the gift…a donation to the church seems a little impersonal and going the embossed Bible route too cliche (beyond the probability that he’ll get multiples of them). Help!
And one last non-joke thing…I’d like to offer a suggestion to anyone with a self-directed 401(k),403(b), and/or Roth IRA with 5+ years to retirement who is comfortable with a growth strategy over cash value…weight your investment mix to favor small-cap and mid-cap international mutual funds. The majority of market growth and capitalization is occuring in international funds which are being driven by the amazing growth in Asia. These funds are way out performing domestic funds so you’ll get a much better return on your investment.
Another reason to consider International funds is that it helps level the playing field in our global economy. There has been massive foreign investment in the U.S. via foreign purchases of U.S. companies and property as well as foreign governments snapping up U.S. T-notes and bonds. By investing in foreign firms we more closely tie our economic survival together and have the ability to retaliate through sell offs of stocks should foreign investors threaten sell offs of dollars and U.S. investments. You can be patriotic and look out for your own retirement.
This concludes our Money Minute for the day. And now back to your regularly scheduled blogging.
By Julia
March 31, 2006 09:54 AM | Link to this
Renee, JBM and Mara-those were awesome!!!!!
ROTF!!!
By Mara
March 31, 2006 09:59 AM | Link to this
Julia, how many variations on this same joke are you gonna post? It isn’t the joke itself, it’s the repetition. It may be you, it may be chuck, it may be Zack, but every week somebody posts this one. But I suppose the “atheists are stoopid” meme busts ‘em up in the sanctuary, eh?
next joke - Q: If H2O is the chemical formula for water, then what is the chemical formula for ice?
A: H-two-O-CUBED
By Just Being Me
March 31, 2006 10:04 AM | Link to this
John, that 9:35 was simply priceless!!!!!!!!!
By Julia
March 31, 2006 10:04 AM | Link to this
By the way, that grandson joke was just a joke. I’m not a grandma and won’t be for quite awhile. LOL
By Mara
March 31, 2006 10:09 AM | Link to this
crud. Boss just hijacked me to a project meeting. Won’t get to blog til this afternoon! BOO-HOO!! Look forward to reading a loooong list of funny jokes later though. C-y’all when I can. :^(
By Just Being Me
March 31, 2006 10:12 AM | Link to this
NetB, I would visit your local Christian gift store. Berean’s in particular has some really nice gift items. And, just so you know, the gift doesn’t have to be a spiritual one. You can buy something based on your friend’s “secular” preferences, too. A nice brief bag, perhaps. Ministers often carry reference books or note-taking materials to church, so a nice Kenneth Cole (or Coach, depending on what you want to spend) would be useful.
Hope that was helpful.
Okay, I need a quick favor, since you raised the subject. I don’t know the first thing about IRAs. When I left my old job, I had a cute little nest egg in my 401(k) and now I want to roll it over into an IRA. Why do people keep telling me I need to do it before I file my taxes, and why does it matter whether I put it into a Roth or the other one?
I tried to read up on the subject, but that’s really not my area of expertise.
I do have (way) more than 5 years to retirement, so I’ll note your advice about the small- and mid-cap int’l funds. I’ve always contributed to my 401(k), but I just started really learning about it with my first subscription to Black Enterprise a little over a year ago. That’s pretty much the extent of my education source. I tried one of those “Investing for Dummies” books too, and even that was a bit over my head… and it wasn’t easy for an ADD’er to read.
By Renee
March 31, 2006 10:14 AM | Link to this
A fellow finds himself in front of the Pearly Gates. St. Peter explains that its not so easy to get in heaven. There are some criteria before entry is allowed.
For example, was the man religious in life? Attend church? No? St. Peter told him that’s bad.
Was he generous? give money to the poor? Charities? No? St. Peter told him that that too was bad.
Did he do any good deeds? Help his neighbor? Anything? No? St. Peter was becoming concerned.
Exasperated, Peter says, “Look, everybody does something nice sometime. Work with me, I’m trying to help. Now think!”
The man says, “There was this old lady. I came out of a store and found her surrounded by a dozen Hell’s Angels. They had taken her purse and were shoving her around, taunting and abusing her.
I got so mad I threw my bags down, fought through the crowd, and got her purse back. I then helped her to her feet. I then went up to the biggest, baddest biker and told him how despicable, cowardly and mean he was and then spat in his face”.
“Wow”, said Peter, “That’s impressive. When did this happen”?
“Oh, about 10 minutes ago”, replied the man.
By Julia
March 31, 2006 10:19 AM | Link to this
Mara-goodness. We see anti-Christian jokes on here all the time. I don’t let them upset me though. I guess instead of the word “brain” I should have used something else like “heart” or “lungs” or “pancreas”. Didn’t mean to offend you and it wasn’t a knock at someone’s intelligence.
Good grief, all week it’s been “only stupid people would believe in God”…”only an idiot would believe the bible which is a bunch of fairy tales”…etc. (JBM called everyone out on it last night.)
If I can roll with the punches then surely you can too, right? I hope so anyway.
TGIF!!!!!!!!! :)
By Just Being Me
March 31, 2006 10:19 AM | Link to this
NetB - another gift idea: an engraved (or not) leather portfolio for keeping his/her sermons.
By Julia
March 31, 2006 10:22 AM | Link to this
Net-thanks for the advice!!! I can use all the financial advice I can get. That’s for sure. ;)
By Just Being Me
March 31, 2006 10:23 AM | Link to this
LOL Renee!
A businessman was in a great deal of trouble. His business was failing, he had put everything he had into the business, he owed everybody it was so bad he was even contemplating suicide. As a last resort he went to a pastor and poured out his story of tears and woe.
When he had finished, the pastor said, “Here’s what I want you to do, put a beach chair and your Bible in your car and drive down to the beach. Take the beach chair and the Bible to the water’s edge, sit down in the beach chair, and put the Bible in your lap. Open the Bible; the wind will rifle the pages, but finally the open Bible will come to rest on a page. Look down at the page and read the first thing you see. That will be your answer, that will tell you what to do.”
A year later the businessman went back to the pastor and brought his wife and children with him. The man was in a new custom- tailored suit, his wife in a mink coat, the children shining. The businessman pulled an envelope stuffed with money out of his pocket and gave it to the pastor as a donation in thanks for his advice.
The pastor recognized the benefactor, and was curious. “You did as I suggested?” he asked.
“Absolutely,” replied the businessman.
“You went to the beach?”
“Absolutely.”
“You sat in a beach chair with the Bible in your lap?”
“Absolutely.”
“You let the pages rifle until they stopped?”
“Absolutely.”
“And what were the first words you saw?”
“Chapter 11.”
By Julia
March 31, 2006 10:25 AM | Link to this
JBM-great idea about the portfolio!
A Christian bookstore has so many great gifts to choose from Net.
By Chilao
March 31, 2006 10:25 AM | Link to this
Net - I started doing 30 percent of my 401K in international funds about 10 years ago, for alot of reasons. been working out quite well even. LOL
By FatMoose
March 31, 2006 10:28 AM | Link to this
If I can roll with the punches then surely you can too, right? I hope so anyway.
snicker…
By Renee
March 31, 2006 10:30 AM | Link to this
Hilarious JBM!!
One morning while making breakfast, a man walked up to his wife and pinched her on her butt and said, “You know if you firmed this up we could get rid of your girdle.” While this was on the edge of intolerable, she thought, and replied with silence.
The next morning the man woke his wife with a pinch on the breast and said,”You know if you firmed these up we could ge rid of your bra.”
This was beyond a silent response, so she rolled over and grabbed his p***. With a death grip in place she said, “You know if you firmed this up we could get rid of the postman, the gardener, the pool man and your brother.
By lozen
March 31, 2006 10:38 AM | Link to this
Julia, I have a tendency to call out “Oh, god” myself at certain times!!
By chuck
March 31, 2006 10:39 AM | Link to this
Hey NetB, A nice practical gift is a gift certificate to a nice restaurant. Most of the guys I know in ministry don’t make a lot of money and a nice night out can be a real treat.
By Just Being Me
March 31, 2006 10:40 AM | Link to this
WOW, Renee. That was good. Couldn’t even laugh for tripping over my jaw.
By Renee
March 31, 2006 10:42 AM | Link to this
A man was having problems with premature ejaculation so he decided to go to the doctor. He asked the doctor what could he do to cure his problem…
In response the doctor said, “When you feel like you are getting ready to ejaculate try startling yourself”. That same day the man went to the store and bought himself a starter pistol. All excited to try this suggestion out he runs home to his wife.
At home his wife is in bed, naked and waiting on her husband. As the two begin, they find themselves in the ‘69’ position. The man, moments later, feels the sudden urge to come and fires the starter pistol.
The next day, the man went back to the doctor. The doctor asked, “How did it go?”. The man answered, “Not that well…when I fired the pistol my wife pooped on my face, bit 3 inches off my p*** and my neighbor came out of the closet with his hands in the air!”
By chuck
March 31, 2006 10:53 AM | Link to this
A Bayesian and a Frequentist were to be executed. The judge asked them what were their last wishes. The Bayesian replied that he would like to give the Frequentist one more lecture. The judge granted the Bayesian’s wish and then turned to the Frequentist for his last wish. The Frequentist quickly responded that he wished to hear the lecture again and again and again and again…….
By Julia
March 31, 2006 10:56 AM | Link to this
Lozen-I’m not even gonna ask!
Good morning by the way.
By Bruce
March 31, 2006 11:03 AM | Link to this
These are some great jokes today! I have been too busy sending them to friends to even post one myself.
this farmer had a very nagging wife one day out of the blue the farmers mule kicked and killed the women at the funeral home all the women would come over and talk to the farmer the farmer would always shake his head yes when a man would talk to him he would shake his head no no so i asked him why he shook his head yes for the women and no for the men he said the women talked about how good his wife looked and a said yes so i said why did you say no to the men THAY ASKED ME DID I WANT TO SELL THAT MULE
By Julia
March 31, 2006 11:03 AM | Link to this
So far it’s been slow at work and peaceful. I’m really needing a good day today!
By Chilao
March 31, 2006 11:04 AM | Link to this
Everything is in a person’s perception
Lost Churches of Louisiana
One of the local television stations in South Louisiana actually aired an interview with a black woman from New Orleans. The interviewer was a woman from a Boston affiliate. She asked the black woman how such total and complete devastation of the churches in the area had affected their lives.
Without hesitation, the woman replied, “I don’t know about all those other people, but we haven’t gone to churches in years. We get our chicken from Popeye’s”.
The look on the interviewer’s face was priceless..
By Renee
March 31, 2006 11:11 AM | Link to this
Ahmed was a high ranking official in King Akbar’s court. However he had one long standing wish - to suck the Queen’s voluptuous breasts to his mind’s desire.
Every time he passed the Queen he would get frustrated. He revealed his desire to king’s chief medical officer, Birbal one day, and begged him to do something about it.
Birbal, after much thought, agreed on the condition that Ahmed could suck the breasts to his desire but later he would have to pay Birbal 1,000 gold coins for it.
Ahmed agreed.
The next day Birbal prepared a high voltage itching lotion and poured it into the Queen’s bra while she was taking a bath. Soon the itching started and grew in intensity much to the King’s anxiety. Consultations with doctors and Birbal revealed that a special saliva, if applied for four hours, would cure it. Birbal also added that such a saliva was only in Ahmed’s mouth.
Akbar summoned Ahmed and for the next 4 hours Ahmed violently sucked the Queen’s breasts. Licking, biting, pressing, playing he got what he always desired.
Satisfied he returned back and met Birbal, but in his lust and since his mission was over he refused to pay Birbal anything and in fact he shooed him away.
Ahmed of course knew that Birbal could never report this matter to the emperor. But Ahmed had underestimated Birbal.
Next day Birbal duly put that lotion in King Akbar’s underwear. Ahmed was called promptly by the King again.
By Justin
March 31, 2006 11:14 AM | Link to this
The radical feminist women groups in Georgia and those who listen to them in the legislature managed to take what the Georgia Child Support Commission was assigned to do, create a “fair and equitable” child support guideline and butcher it. Now, non-custodial parents who spend 40-50% of their time with the children will still be responsible for most of the child costs at the custodial parents home. No one thinks of the costs for the child at the non-custodial parent’s home. No one thinks of the time when fathers have their children all summer but yet can’t afford camp or any activities because they are still paying the mother child support even though the children aren’t there. Where is the justice? And, you wonder why some men don’t want to marry the vindictive American women.
And, this is for you Whiley who can’t see anything logical beyond your own views, why is it fair for the courts to give a good father who is involved with his children’s lives, spiritually, physically, and financially to be reduced to a visitor and a wallet? At least some of the other women understand the plight some men face, so I don’t want to hear a darn thing about this from you!
By Bruce
March 31, 2006 11:14 AM | Link to this
A little girl asked her mom, “Mom, may I take the dog for a walk around the block?” Mom replies, “No, because she is in heat.” “What’s that mean?” asked the child. “Go ask your father. I think he’s in the garage.” The little girl goes to the garage and says, “Dad, may I take Belle for a walk around the block? I asked Mom, but she said the dog was in heat, and to come to you.” Dad said, “Bring Belle over here.” He took a rag, soaked it with gasoline, and scrubbed the dog’s backside with it to disguise the scent, and said “OK, you can go now, but keep Belle on the leash and only go one time round the block.” The little girl left, and returned a few minutes later with no dog on the leash. Surprised, Dad asked, “Where’s Belle?” (YOU’RE GOING TO’ LOVE THIS!!!!!! !!!! )
The little girl said, “She ran out of gas about halfway down the block, so another dog is pushing her home.”
By Chilao
March 31, 2006 11:19 AM | Link to this
And, you wonder why some men don’t want to marry the vindictive American women.
as opposed to the men from other countries who beat the crap out of the women and kidnap the kids to some third world place?
just trying to get clarification here.
By Justin
March 31, 2006 11:23 AM | Link to this
I have a joke…
What do you call a fair family law judge?
An anomaly who would be protested by radical women and women who don’t want to be financially responsible for themselves or their children.
Ha Ha to the Ha!
By Just Being Me
March 31, 2006 11:25 AM | Link to this
Justin, dear, I’m sure you didn’t know this since you’re relatively new here, but on Fridays, we post jokes and other funnies, and laugh. We don’t usually discuss serious issues.
Of course, this is a public blog, so you can feel free to post whatever you like. But, laughing is a much better way to end the week than getting all heated over some subject that may or may not mean a hill of beans to your fellow blogger.
Chilao I pray that that’s not a true story. Seriously.
By Bruce
March 31, 2006 11:26 AM | Link to this
Wally’s wedding night
At 85 years of age, Wally married Lou Anne, a lovely 25 year old.
Since her new husband is so old, Lou Anne decides that after their wedding she and Wally should have separate bedrooms, because she is concerned that her new but aged husband may overexert himself if they spend the entire night together.
After the wedding festivities Lou Anne prepares herself for bed and the expected “knock” on the door. Sure enough the knock comes, the door opens and there is Wally, her 85 year old groom, ready for action.
They unite as one. All goes well, Wally takes leave of his bride, and she prepares to go to sleep.
After a few minutes, Lou Anne hears another knock on her bedroom door, and it’s Wally. Again he is ready for more “action”.
Somewhat surprised, Lou Anne consents for more coupling. When the newlyweds are done, Wally kisses his bride, bids her a fond goodnight and leaves.
She is set to go to sleep again, but, aha you guessed it - Wally is back again, rapping on the door, and is as fresh as a 25-year-old, ready for more “action”. And, once again they enjoy each other.
But as Wally gets set to leave again, his young bride says to him, “I am thoroughly impressed that at your age you can perform so well and so often. I have been with guys less than a third of your age who were only good once. You are truly a great lover, Wally.”
Wally, somewhat embarrassed, turns to Lou Anne and says:
………”You mean I was here already?”
The moral of the story: Senior moments have their advantages.
By The72John
March 31, 2006 11:27 AM | Link to this
The Sign
A priest and a pastor from the local churches are standing by the side of the road, pounding a sign into the ground, that reads:
The End is Near! Turn Yourself Around Now! Before it’s Too Late!
As a car sped past them, the driver yelled, “Leave us alone, you religious nuts!” From the curve they heard screeching tires and a big splash.
The pastor turns to the priest and asks, “Do you think the sign should just say ‘Bridge Out’?”
By Justin
March 31, 2006 11:28 AM | Link to this
Chilao, No, that’s not what I mean… I mean women who don’t think children should have a family. I mean women who think selfishly and walk out because “I have to find myself or I’m just not happy”. Marriage is work. If you say you love a person and there isn’t any physical or emotional abuse, the greener pastures one is looking for aren’t necessarily greener.
By Julia
March 31, 2006 11:29 AM | Link to this
So … the other day, my friends and I went to this “Ladies Night Club.”
One of the girls wanted to impress us, so she pulls out a $10 bill. The “dancer” came over to us, and my friend licked the $10 and put it on his butt cheek.
Not to be outdone, another friend pulls out a $20 bill. She calls the guy back over, licks the $20 bill and puts it on his other butt cheek.
Still attempting to impress the rest of us, my other friend pulls out a $50 bill. She calls the guy back over again, licks the $50 bill and again puts it on one of his butt cheeks.
Now the attention is focused on me. What could I do to top that?
I got out my wallet, thought for a minute … and then the financial analyst in me took over.
I got out my ATM card, swiped it down the crack of his a$s, grabbed the $80 bucks and went home!
By kimberly
March 31, 2006 11:31 AM | Link to this
Bitter much?
By Renee
March 31, 2006 11:42 AM | Link to this
Hilarious John & Bruce!!!
JBM good comment! And I share your sentiments on Chilao’s “joke”. I really, really, really hope thats not true!!!
By lozen
March 31, 2006 11:42 AM | Link to this
This is the ad for the PBS radio show Speaking of Faith this Wed. night at 7PM. 90.1 on the fm dial …
This week, after many requests by our listeners, we are exploring Paganism. In its original sense, the word “Pagan” simply referred to country dwellers or peasants. Then, as Christianity spread rapidly in the urban areas of the Roman Empire, “Pagan” became a negative term for those too backward (or too faithful to the old goddesses/gods) to embrace monotheistic faith. (Thousands of these people were tortured and burned at the stake by the roman catholic church Inquisition throughout a 400 year period in Europe.)
There are an estimated 13 million self-described Pagans worldwide at this time. But there is some overlap between these traditions and New Age spirituality, a range of practices that may touch as many as 20 percent of the U.S. population. Wicca or Witchcraft is one of these movements. Witches do not believe in a devil and certainly do not worship the devil. This should be an interesting program especially for those who know nothing about paganism. Want more info: Speaking of Faith® from American Public Media newsletter@speakingoffaith.org
By Just Being Me
March 31, 2006 11:45 AM | Link to this
That is hilarious, Julia! Bruce, the dog in heat joke was absolutely priceless!!!!
By FatMoose
March 31, 2006 11:45 AM | Link to this
Watch out Justin; you will become like those that you despise if you take the dark path…
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March 31, 2006 11:45 AM | Link to this
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By Jack
March 31, 2006 11:46 AM | Link to this
Julia. You give Christians a good name. :)
By lyrazel
March 31, 2006 11:48 AM | Link to this
Should Children Witness Childbirth?
Due to a power outage, only one paramedic responded to the call. The house was very, very dark, so the paramedic asked Kathleen, a 7-year-old girl, to hold the light high over her mommy so he could see while he helped deliver the baby. Very diligently Kathleen did as she was asked. Her mother Heidi pushed and pushed, and after a little while Connor was born. The paramedic lifted him by his little feet and spanked him on his bottom. Connor began to cry. The paramedic then thanked Kathleen for her help and asked the wide-eyed 7-year-old what she thought about what she had just witnessed. Kathleen very quickly and quite loudly responded, “He shouldn’t have crawled in there in the first place. Smack his little a!s!s again.”
By Chilao
March 31, 2006 11:49 AM | Link to this
Julia - you actually touched that money(and I am not talking about the evil fruits or anything like that). LOL actually when you think about how nasty our money is(physical germs), Okay, let’s not go there, it’s joke day.
but the thought of Julia out for that kind of ‘girl’s night out’ made me realize there is HOPE for all INDEED LMAO
Justin - did you add the “american women”? LOL
By Chilao
March 31, 2006 11:55 AM | Link to this
JBM/Renee - I kind of doubt it true as well, thought it was a joke circulating in the black community since a black guy sent it to me. you guys apparently never saw it?
72John - I had tears in my eyes from the “Bridge out”, about to forward.
By Julia
March 31, 2006 11:57 AM | Link to this
Love ya Jack!
By chuck
March 31, 2006 11:57 AM | Link to this
Descartes is sitting in a bar, having a drink. The bartender asks him if he would like another. “I think not,” he says and vanishes in a puff of logic.
By Jack
March 31, 2006 11:59 AM | Link to this
Justin. You must have been hurt badly. Staying bitter helps no one. Remember, the best revenge is living well. Go forth and exude confidence. Think positive and it will be returned.
By Just Being Me
March 31, 2006 12:00 PM | Link to this
Jack, I agree.
By candide
March 31, 2006 12:06 PM | Link to this
Let’s have a warning label on election ballots in November. Warning: the Gop has been found in extensive trials to be incompetent, deceitful, un-American, and immoral.
By Just Being Me
March 31, 2006 12:12 PM | Link to this
Chilao, no I haven’t heard that one. Most of my black friends know better than to send me something like that. (I’m not offended by it, I just hate to see ignorant, black people in the media).
By chuck
March 31, 2006 12:13 PM | Link to this
This one is for old Michael H. our resident “philosophy professor” who hasn’t been around much lately.
Question: How do you get a philosopher off your porch? Answer: Pay for the pizza.
By kimberly
March 31, 2006 12:25 PM | Link to this
Justin, my first husband was (as I told the judge) drunk, abusive, and unfaithful. In order to move past that, I had to acknowledge that it was my own fault for marrying such a person. (Although I was smart enough to NOT reproduce the jacka—.) I hope you’ll realize that your “victimized” stance is only prolonging your bitterness. Admit that this was YOUR doing as well. You chose to marry and reproduce with the person you now despise this much. Therefore, YOUR motives, judgment, and the process by which you make important decisions, are FLAWED. Face this, and then you can fix it and move ON already. Geez.
By Nikita
March 31, 2006 12:30 PM | Link to this
Hey, Justin — I totally disagree with you. Why? Because I’ve got NO sympathy for the so-called fair, impartial law that was pushed a while back which would have reduced the non-custodial parent’s support based on how many additional children he needed to support. Here’s a news flash: making the children you sired with a previous wife take less of your support because you sired more of them is irresponsibility, pure and simple. And it angers me that scumbag re-married multiple fathers want the state to support them in their irresponsibility. Here’s a great idea — if you don’t want to pay for the support of more than one houshold full of children, DON’T CREATE THEM.
By Jack
March 31, 2006 12:36 PM | Link to this
I’d love lay on your couch and tell you my problems. :)
By Chilao
March 31, 2006 12:48 PM | Link to this
Question: How do you get a philosopher off your porch? Answer: Pay for the pizza.
back to Everything is in a person’s perception
I heard that was an Ole-Miss grad. LOL
JBM - I actually did not even get that joke until I realized that there was a place called Church’s that does fast food fried chicken, like KFC. Never eaten at one and never would. If I have not seen you put the chicken in the skillet, not about to eat it.
By Bruce
March 31, 2006 12:57 PM | Link to this
A junior high private school recently was faced with a unique problem.
A number of 12-year-old girls were beginning to use lipstick and would put it on in the bathroom. That was fine but, after they put on their lipstick, they would press their lips to the mirror leaving dozens of little lip prints.
Every night T-Boy Boudreaux, the maintenance man, would remove them and the next day the girls would put them back. Finally the principal decided that something had to be done. She called all the girls to the bathroom and met them there with the maintenance man. She explained that all these lip prints were causing a major problem for the custodian who had to clean the mirrors every night.
To demonstrate how difficult it had been to clean the mirrors, she asked the T-Boy to show the girls how much effort was required.
He took out a long-handled squeegee, dipped it in the toilet, and cleaned the mirror with it. Since then, there have been no lip prints on the mirror.
There are teachers, and then there are educators.
By The72John
March 31, 2006 01:02 PM | Link to this
A burglar broke into a house one night. He shone his flashlight around, looking for valuables. When he picked up a CD player to stuff into his sack, he heard a strange disembodied voice come through the darkness: “Jesus is watching you.”
He nearly jumped out of his skin! He shut off his flashlight and waited… When he heard nothing more after a bit, he shook his head and resumed searching for more valuables. Just as he disconnected the stereo, he heard again, clear as a bell:
“Jesus is watching you.”
Completely freaked, he shone his light around looking for the source of the voice. In a corner of the room the beam came to rest upon an African parrot.
“Did you say that?!” he hissed at the parrot.
“Yep,” the bird replied. “I’m just trying to warn you.”
The burglar visibly relaxed. “Warn me, huh?! Who the heck are you?”
“Moses,” replied the parrot.
The burglar laughed, “What kind of stupid people would name a parrot Moses?”
“Probably,” the bird answered, “the same kind of people who would name a rottweiler Jesus.”
By The72John
March 31, 2006 01:04 PM | Link to this
A drunk that smelled like a brewery got on a bus one day. He sat down next to a priest. The drunk’s shirt was stained, his face was full of bright red lipstick and he had a half empty bottle of wine sticking out of his pocket. He opened his newspaper and started reading—-a couple of minutes later he asked the priest, “Father what causes arthritis?”
“Mister, it’s caused by loose living, being with cheap wicked women, too much alcohol and contempt for your fellow man.”
“Well, I’ll be damned,” the drunk muttered and returned to reading his paper.
The priest, thinking about what he said turned to the man and apologized. “I’m sorry, I didn’t mean to come on so strong—how long have you had arthritis?”
“I don’t, father, I was just reading in the paper that the Pope has it.”
By Renee
March 31, 2006 01:12 PM | Link to this
Excellent Bruce. No, I had never seen that one Chilao. It’s funny if it’s not true, sad if it is lol.
By Netbanker
March 31, 2006 01:14 PM | Link to this
I’ve been sidelined like Mara into project meetings, but I’m back for the moment.
JBM…Thanks for the gift advice it’s greatly appreciated. My guess as to why you’d be advised to make a shift to an IRA prior to filing taxes is to take advantage of tax deductions for traditional IRA contributions. My understanding is that the tax deduction does not apply for a roll over from a 401K to a traditional IRA since those funds already reduced your taxable income at the time they were deducted from your paycheck. Taking the tax deduct would be double dipping because the original contribution was pre-tax and by taking an IRA contribution deduction you’d be trying to reduced your taxable income a second time with same money.
People tend to look at the Roth IRA as advantageous because the withdrawls are tax-free and there are no mandatory distributions upon reaching 70 1/2. The reason is that with a ROTH IRA the money contributed is post-tax but you can NOT take a deduction on your income tax for contributions to a ROTH IRA like you can for contribution to a traditional IRA. What you’re effectively doing with a ROTH IRA is guaranteeing yourself a tax free income in the future and hedging your bets that tax rates will be higher in the future (good bet given our ages and the current deficit scenario as well as SS & Medicare program funding shortages) by using post-tax dollars now. With a traditional IRA the contributions are still post-tax dollars, but the contributions are tax deductible in the year they are made AND you pay taxes when the money is withdrawn. Additionally with a traditional IRA mandatory minimum distributions start at 70 1/2 by law even if you don’t need the money and are taxable income.
If you roll over funds from a 401(k) or a traditional IRA to a ROTH IRA you have to make a tax payment at rollover in order to have the funds qualify for the tax free withdrawls in the future. This does not apply to rolling funds from a 401(k) to a traditional IRA.
Basically you need to figure out whether to take your tax lumps now or later. A tax specialist will best be able to help you figure that out. Thank you for your time and attention during this Money Minute by NetB…and now back to your regularly scheduled blog.
By Mara
March 31, 2006 01:16 PM | Link to this
Hey y’all. Julia, wasn’t commenting on the yopic of the joke, just the frequency of it’s use. I wasn’t until I went exploring on the ‘net that I understood. There’s only maybe 3 or 4 well published jokes dissing atheists, so I guess you gotta recycle. But I did manage to find a couple other ones to share with you:
1) Did you hear about the 15,000 atheists in London rioted after a blank sheet of paper was found on a cartoonist’s desk?
2) They have Dial-a-Prayer for atheists now.
You call up and it rings and rings but nobody answers.
3)The story is told of the Atheist who accosted a preacher. “Do you believe in eternal life?” The preacher has no time to reply. “Well its a load of rubbish!” shouted the Atheist. “I believe in science, evolution, survival of the fittest, and when we die, that’s it! No eternal life, no great judgement, and no God!” The Atheist continues his assault against the preacher repetitiously and tirelessly.
“Eternal life! Eternal life! Ha! “Its all pie in the sky when you die.” When I die that’s it, the end, no eternal life, no nothing. He continues, until he reaches his climax, “I will be buried six feet under when I die and that’s it! Nothing! Caput! When I die I am utterly convinced that that will be the end of me!”
“Well thank God for that” replies the preacher!
enjoy :^)
By Bruce
March 31, 2006 01:28 PM | Link to this
Netb, youu got to quit with all IRA jokes. My boss just told me to calm down and my sides are killing me…….
By Mara
March 31, 2006 01:28 PM | Link to this
oops. I meant …topic not yopic…
By Justin
March 31, 2006 01:36 PM | Link to this
What is America coming to…why we should be against “illegal” immigration…
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1604915/posts
By FatMoose
March 31, 2006 01:38 PM | Link to this
FYI -
NEW YORK - In the largest study of its kind, researchers found that having people pray for heart bypass surgery patients had no effect on their recovery. In fact, patients who knew they were being prayed for had a slightly higher rate of complications.
First study that shows no positive effect from praying. I ahve to admit I was surprised by the results.
Maybe the lines got crossed and they were ringing up satan on accident? For got to dial a 777 first and used the prefix 666?
By Julia
March 31, 2006 01:40 PM | Link to this
Mara-sorry for the misunderstanding. And thanks for the jokes! ;)
Chilao-actually it was just a joke. Haven’t been to see a strip show in about 8 years or so. (Not that I see anything wrong with that…as long as they’re not completely nude.)LOL (Did I just say that???)
;)
By Karen
March 31, 2006 01:42 PM | Link to this
This is stupid. Why don’t we just put a big sign on all restaurants and grocery stores….Over consumption of ANYTHING will make you fat! Control Yourself. There’s Nobody to blame but yourself!
By Justin
March 31, 2006 01:42 PM | Link to this
So Nikita, a woman can have as many children as she wants because someone else is paying?
I see many women having children which they can’t afford by multiple men.
If I remarry and choose to have another child and can afford it, I will. However, I don’t think it is fair, which happens a lot in family court, for my ex to come after me for “more” support after I have another child. This happens a lot. Suddenly, what they were receiving, just seems to not be enough.
JBM, I did laugh…Ha Ha to the Ha!
By Whiley
March 31, 2006 01:44 PM | Link to this
Justin, I’m all for GOOD fathers to be able to have all access to their children. GOOD fathers. Not the “I’ll pay when I feel like it”, not the abusive fathers, the fathers who are skirt chasing nude bar regulars, the fathers who are drinkers, drug abusers, the ones that always get their power & phones cut off due to non payments, the ones that are verbally abusive every times they are around the ex. I think the GOOD fathers should have all access. But you do realize it’s not women that have caused these problems for the GOOD fathers, it’s the CRAPPY FATHERS that far outnumber the good ones, hence the crappy child support & visitation that’s gotten out of hand. Do I have an answer to how the good fathers can be protected? No I wish I did.
American men seem to have no problem marrying American women, marriage licenses are being issued constantly all over this country. Are we whittle women tricking millions of men into marriages? Are we innocent women talking men into not using a condom? Yes you got us, we are all getting pregnant on purpose just so we can get that $500 per month & become single moms. Yea right. I didn’t’ realize we were that good !
So it’s RADICAL Feminists that fight to get sperm donors to pay for the kids they make? OHHHHH those horrible butch feminists!
Justin your poopie little check each month probably doesn’t even cover DAY CARE costs, much left food & everything else, not to mention the constant 24/7 care that YOU’re not doing except for the every other weekend deal.
What a baby, boo hoo we’ve all been p** on by the opposite sex, some of us are smarter not to breed with the wrong person dear. And those women that claim to be leaving for stupid reasons, really are leaving because husbands work all the time, ignore them completely, provide little to no sex or attention, & complain all the time, or dictate every friggin thing. (just a few examples for you) Women don’t leave because they are just bored my dear. Have you gained 200 lbs & have the breath of a homeless person? Do you sit around watching football all day long ignoring your wife & kids? I wouldn’t stay with anybody like that either. Kids or no kids.
By Whiley
March 31, 2006 01:46 PM | Link to this
” Did you hear about the 15,000 atheists in London rioted after a blank sheet of paper was found on a cartoonist’s desk?”
lol Mara !
By The72John
March 31, 2006 01:48 PM | Link to this
Gee, that’s great, Justin. Nothing like Jingoistic, Nationalistic Neo-Facist hysteria to start off the weekend.
I’m sure the Klan is recruiting if you’re interested.
By Jewish and Proud of It
March 31, 2006 01:49 PM | Link to this
Wow! seems like Justin’s not the only one who’s bitter around here.
By Julia
March 31, 2006 01:57 PM | Link to this
Yes you got us, we are all getting pregnant on purpose just so we can get that $500 per month & become single moms.
AMEN to that one!!! (Actually it’s $400 per month.)
By Whiley
March 31, 2006 01:57 PM | Link to this
Seriously Justin it doesn’t sound like you SHOULD be breeding children again. If you can’t keep your wife happy, you will end being left again. You already have children, you would be selfish to make more. Women are independent today & don’t have to be stuck in loveless, sexless, abusive marriages anymore. Now husbands have to make bigger efforts. Including their looks.
No doubt there are women that have kids with lots of different men, but who the Hail would date somebody like that???? If she already has 2 kids with 2 different men, HELLO NOT A GOOD IDEA TO GET INVOLVED!
Just as my own rule I don’t date men that have more than one baby-momma.
When I was much younger, I didn’t date divorced men with kids either. That was my rule & I stuck to it. I’ve never had to deal with ex’s, arguments, child support payments or any of that garbage. LIFE IS GOOD !
By Justin
March 31, 2006 01:57 PM | Link to this
The72John, Don’t even compare me to them…and before you call me the r word, I am Black and Jewish.
For those who eat Church’s Chicken…The company is owned by Arcapita Inc., which is the U.S. subsidiary of the Bahrain-based Arcapita Bank.
By Renee
March 31, 2006 01:57 PM | Link to this
Justin your poopie little check each month probably doesn’t even cover DAY CARE costs, much left food & everything else, not to mention the constant 24/7 care that YOU’re not doing except for the every other weekend deal.
Whiley, that is a little personal, don’t you think? You don’t know what this man is paying or doing with his children. The way you are going off, one would think he owes you money for the children the two of you had together. You should really chill out.
By Renee
March 31, 2006 02:00 PM | Link to this
No, they seem to be on opposite sides, but equally bitter.
Could it be love in the air lol??
By lozen
March 31, 2006 02:03 PM | Link to this
The best jokes Renee. Thanx for the financial seminar NetB. Mara, i loved the atheist jokes. I love Fridays!!!
By Whiley
March 31, 2006 02:04 PM | Link to this
LOL Renee, he’s complaining about the money he has to pay out, for HIS OWN KIDS. It’s not a secret what kids cost ! not to mention the constant care & attention, the WORK it takes, the laundry alone ! He’s complaining ,then b*** about having to pay out more money (gee cost of living maybe?) NOW he’s already talking about making more kids???
By Jack
March 31, 2006 02:05 PM | Link to this
Whiley. Ease up on the poor man. We haven’t walked in his shoes. He needs encouragement. Get back on that horse Justin.
By Chilao
March 31, 2006 02:05 PM | Link to this
Did you hear about the 15,000 atheists in London rioted after a blank sheet of paper was found on a cartoonist’s desk?”
now that has to be a REAL NEW one. talk about disrespect. LMAO
By FatMoose
March 31, 2006 02:05 PM | Link to this
Wow! seems like Justin’s not the only one who’s bitter around here.
Yes Justin, I think you found your Sith-Lord teacher/mentor if you choose the dark side. There are a number of other appretices that you will have to vie for alpha-apprentice.
Or you can slowly step away from the “Bitter for Life” doorway and opt for the “Difficult, but must remain an Adult and grow from this experience doorway.”
The choice is soley yours. And do not ask for advise on which doorway is correct; they ALL will state that their doorway is absolutely correct.
Good luck.
By Justin
March 31, 2006 02:09 PM | Link to this
Whiley, By the way, I pay $1700 a month. And no, I don’t make a six figure salary. And yes, she makes more than me. And no, I didn’t cheat.
I can’t afford camp in the summer. And, I know many guys in my situation.
Whiley, you wouldn’t know a “Good” father or “Good” man if he crossed your path. You are too busy sending out hate daggers. Oh by the way, I was watching the “Wizard of Oz” with my children. I am so sorry the house dropped on your sister.
By Whiley
March 31, 2006 02:09 PM | Link to this
“No, they seem to be on opposite sides, but equally bitter. Could it be love in the air lol??”
NOOOOOOO I don’t date men with more than one kid either. Unless his kids are grown & OUT of the house. There’s advantages to dating later on in life.
lol !
By Jack
March 31, 2006 02:10 PM | Link to this
I meant a different horse, of course.
By The72John
March 31, 2006 02:11 PM | Link to this
and before you call me the r word, I am Black and Jewish.
Justin, I don’t care if you’re Sammy Davis Jr. When you link to a site that is full of racially and ethnically-charged hate speech, you are no better than they are.
What - you think just because you belong to a minority, you can’t be a racist and a bigot? Get over yourself. Blacks aren’t exempt from bigotry because they themselves have been discriminated against.
By Julia
March 31, 2006 02:11 PM | Link to this
So this grasshopper walks into a bar. The bartender looks up and says “Hey! Your a grasshopper! We have a drink named after you!”.
The grasshopper says “Oh yeah? You have a drink named Leonard?!”.
By RF
March 31, 2006 02:12 PM | Link to this
If I remember correctly, Justin has his kids about half the time and during the summer when he has them full-time, he still has to pay full support to the ex as well as pay all kid associated expenses while they’re with him. Seems a tad bit unfair. I think he’s paying all the support commanded and doing his part.
By Julia
March 31, 2006 02:14 PM | Link to this
Dave works hard at the plant and spends most evenings bowling or playing basketball at the gym. His wife thinks he is pushing himself too hard, so for his birthday she takes him to a local strip club.
The doorman at the club greets them and says, “Hey, Dave, how ya doin?”
His wife is puzzled and asks if he’s been to this club before. “Oh no,” says Dave. “He’s on my bowling team.”
When they are seated, a waitress asks Dave if he’d like his usual Budweiser. His wife is becoming uncomfortable and says, “You must come here a lot for that woman to know you drink Budweiser”.
“No, honey, she’s in the Ladies Bowling League. We share lanes with them.”
A stripper comes over to their table and throws her arms around Dave. “Hi Davey,” she says, “Want your usual table dance?”
Dave’s wife, now furious, grabs her purse and storms out of the club. Dave follows and spots her getting into a cab. Before she can slam the door, he jumps in beside her and she starts screaming at him.
The cabby turns his head and says, “Looks like you picked up a real b!tch tonight, Dave.”!
By Mara
March 31, 2006 02:14 PM | Link to this
WHAT NOT TO SAY TO A NAKED MAN (or “what one woman said to…oh, you know.)
I’ve smoked fatter joints than that.
Ahh, it’s cute.
Who circumcised you?
Why don’t we just cuddle?
You know they have surgery to fix that.
It’s more fun to look at.
Make it dance.
You know, there’s a tower in Italy like that.
Can I paint a smiley face on that?
It looks like a night crawler.
Wow, and your feet are so big.
My last boyfriend was 4” bigger.
It’s ok, we’ll work around it.
Is this a mild or a spicy Slim Jim?
Eww, there’s an inch worm on your thigh.
Will it squeak if I squeeze it?
Oh no, a flash headache.
(giggle and point)
Can I be honest with you?
My 8-year-old brother has one like that.
Let me go get my tweezers.
How sweet, you brought incense.
This explains your car.
You must be a growing boy.
Maybe if we water it, it’ll grow.
Thanks, I needed a toothpick.
Are you one of those pygmies?
Have you ever thought of working in a sideshow?
Every heard of clearasil?
All right, a treasure hunt!
I didn’t know they came that small.
Why is God punishing you?
At least this won’t take long.
I never saw one like that before.
What do you call this?
But it still works, right?
It looks so unused.
Do you take steroids?
I hear excessive masturbation shrinks it.
Maybe it looks better in natural light.
Why don’t we skip right to the cigarettes?
Oh, I didn’t know you were in an accident.
Did you date Lorena Bobbitt?
Aww, it’s hiding.
Are you cold?
If you get me real drunk first.
Is that an optical illusion?
What is that?
I’ll go get the ketchup for your french fry.
Were you neutered?
It’s a good thing you have so many other talents.
Does it come with an air pump?
So this is why you’re supposed to judge people on personality.
Where are the puppet strings?
Your big gun is more like a BB gun.
Look, it fits my Barbie clothes.
Never mind, why bother.
Is that a second belly button?
Where’s the rest of it?
By Jack
March 31, 2006 02:16 PM | Link to this
If the house dropped on Whiley’s sister, that means she is the GOOD witch of the North. LOL
By RF
March 31, 2006 02:16 PM | Link to this
Oh by the way, I was watching the “Wizard of Oz” with my children. I am so sorry the house dropped on your sister.
“Spoken like a true smarta$$” Good one Justin!
By Justin
March 31, 2006 02:16 PM | Link to this
Whiley, You need to tell their mother about paying her fair share. The $1700 I pay each month covers “all” their expenses with money left over. Plus, what is she putting in? I have the children almost as much as she does.
By Renee
March 31, 2006 02:18 PM | Link to this
He’s been complaining true, but how does it differ from your constant complaining? But to berate this man and tell him it is probably his fault the marriage ended and he shouldnt breed again is just foul. How would you feel if every time you complained, the blog’s response was “Sure hope you’re not a breeder, Whiley.”?
Your comments were really foul.
By candide
March 31, 2006 02:18 PM | Link to this
It was reported today that prayer for the recovery of heart patients doesn’t do any good. Surprise! Of course not, no one is listening. Prayer by the sick person himself could help in that he could make himself think he is getting better with the help of some god — but in both cases there is not evidence of God.
You’ll have pie in the sky when you die == in the bye and bye. Oh ye foolish Christians! Believing all that crap.
By Julia
March 31, 2006 02:19 PM | Link to this
Something for the missing Bla…
Top 17 fatal things to say if your wife is pregnant:
“I finished the Oreos.”
“Not to imply anything, but I don’t think the kid weighs 40 pounds.”
“Y’know, looking at her, you’d never guess that Pamela Lee had a baby..!!”
“I sure hope your thighs aren’t gonna stay that flabby forever!”
“Well, couldn’t they induce labor? The 25th is the Super Bowl!”
“Darned if you ain’t about five pounds away from a surprise visit from that Richard Simmons fella.”
“Fred at the office passed a stone the size of a pea. Boy, that’s gotta hurt.”
“Whoa! For a minute there, I thought I woke up next to Willard Scott!”
“I’m jealous! Why can’t men experience the joy of childbirth?”
“Are your ankles supposed to look like that?”
“Get your own ice cream.”
“Geez, you’re awfully puffy looking today.”
“Got milk ?”
“Maybe we should name the baby after my secretary, Tawney.”
“Man! That rose tattoo on your hip is the size of Madagascar!”
“Retaining water? Yeah, like the Hoover Dam retains water…”
And the Number 1 Fatal Thing To Say If Your Wife Is Pregnant:
By Brian Curtis
March 31, 2006 02:19 PM | Link to this
Hey, folks-—remember the (unwritten, unenforceable, and generally ignored) rule: JOKES ONLY ON FRIDAYS.
So, for no particular reason… some guitar jokes!
David dies and goes to heaven. St Peter says “How did things go for you back on Earth?’ David says, “Not too bad. I left behind a wife, two kids, a pretty good bank balance, no mortgage, and my wife will get another $100,000 from the insurance.’ ‘Great’, says St Peter, ‘what was it you did while you were alive?’ ‘Oh I was in Real estate.’
Bruce follows David up to the pearly gates and gets the same sort of welcome and questions. ‘Well, I’ve left an ex-wife and two kids, a little house in the suburbs for them, just a few dollars in the bank… But the car’s paid for and they should be okay, I hope.” “Fair enough,” says St. Peter, “What did you do for a living?” Bruce replies, “I was a truck driver.”
Jim was next in line and gets the questions from the old guy. Embarrassed, he begins to relate: “Yes, well let’s see… I left my fourth wife, any number of kids I don’t support, I’ve got no steady home and my car quit on me months back… I guess I never really make it where I thought I would.”
And St. Peter says, “Okay… and what band did you play with?”
Hear the one about the Irish jazz guitarist? He was in it for the money!
-
Q - What do a cup of coffee and Eric Clapton have in common? A - They both suck without Cream
Q - What’s the difference between a guitarist and a mutual fund? A - One matures.
Q - What do you call a guitar player without a girlfriend? A - Homeless.
Q - How many guitar players does it take to cover a Stevie Ray Vaughan tune? A – Apparently, all of them.
Q - How many guitarists does it take to change a light bulb? A – Ten. One to do it and nine to say they could’ve done it better.
Q - What do you throw a drowning guitarist? A - His amplifier.
Q - How do you make a guitarist’s eyes light up? A - Shine a flashlight in his ear.
-
What do you say to a guitar player in a 3-piece suit ?
“Will the defendant please rise …”
-
What do a vacuum cleaner and an electric guitar have in common? Both suck when you plug them in.
Q: What does it mean when a guitarist is drooling from both sides of his mouth? A: The stage is level.
Q: Have you heard about the guitarist who was in tune? A: Neither have I.
Q: What’s the difference between a guitarist and an extra-large large pizza? A: The pizza CAN feed a family of four.
Q - What’s the best sound you can make with a guitar? A - A splash.
Q: What’s the definition of an optimist? A: A professional guitarist with a beeper.
Two explorers are on a raft paddling down the Amazon. All of a sudden, tribal drums start up: BOOM-da-da-BOOM-da-da-BOOM-da-da-BOOM-da-da.
The first explorer starts to panic, saying “Oh no, we’re in for it now… they’re going to kill us… we’ll never get out of here alive.”
His partner reassures him. “Don’t worry about the drums. They won’t kill us while the drumming is going on… it’s when they stop that you have to start worrying”.
By this time, the first explorer is really sweating. Glancing around in terror, he asks in a strangled voice, “Wh… what happens then?”
Grimly, the other replies, “Guitar solo.”
-
A young boy tells his mother, “When I grow up, I want to be a guitarist!”
His mother shakes her head. “Now now, son, you can’t do both.”
By Mara
March 31, 2006 02:20 PM | Link to this
Whiley, sorry to laugh but dang…Oh by the way, I was watching the “Wizard of Oz” with my children. I am so sorry the house dropped on your sister. - Justin made a funny! LOL!!
Reminds me of this joke:
and goes to their local church. Before the service starts, the townspeople sit in their pews and talk about their lives, their families, etc. Suddenly, at the altar, Satan appears!! Everyone starts screaming and running for the front entrance, trampling each other in their determined efforts to get away from Evil Incarnate.
Soon, everyone is evacuated from the church except for one man, who sits calmly in his pew, seemingly oblivious to the fact that God’s ultimate enemy is in his presence. This confuses Satan a bit.
Satan walks up to the man and says, “Hey, don’t you know who I am?”
The man says, “Yep, sure do.”
Satan says, “Well, aren’t you afraid of me?”
The man says, “Nope, sure ain’t.”
Satan, perturbed, says, “And why aren’t you afraid of me?”
The man says, “Well, I’ve been married to your sister for 25 years.”
By Brian Curtis
March 31, 2006 02:20 PM | Link to this
Hey, folks-—remember the (unwritten, unenforceable, and generally ignored) rule: JOKES ONLY ON FRIDAYS.
So, for no particular reason… some guitar jokes!
David dies and goes to heaven. St Peter says “How did things go for you back on Earth?’ David says, “Not too bad. I left behind a wife, two kids, a pretty good bank balance, no mortgage, and my wife will get another $100,000 from the insurance.’ ‘Great’, says St Peter, ‘what was it you did while you were alive?’ ‘Oh I was in Real estate.’
Bruce follows David up to the pearly gates and gets the same sort of welcome and questions. ‘Well, I’ve left an ex-wife and two kids, a little house in the suburbs for them, just a few dollars in the bank… But the car’s paid for and they should be okay, I hope.” “Fair enough,” says St. Peter, “What did you do for a living?” Bruce replies, “I was a truck driver.”
Jim was next in line and gets the questions from the old guy. Embarrassed, he begins to relate: “Yes, well let’s see… I left my fourth wife, any number of kids I don’t support, I’ve got no steady home and my car quit on me months back… I guess I never really make it where I thought I would.”
And St. Peter says, “Okay… and what band did you play with?”
Hear the one about the Irish jazz guitarist? He was in it for the money!
-
Q - What do a cup of coffee and Eric Clapton have in common? A - They both suck without Cream
Q - What’s the difference between a guitarist and a mutual fund? A - One matures.
Q - What do you call a guitar player without a girlfriend? A - Homeless.
Q - How many guitar players does it take to cover a Stevie Ray Vaughan tune? A – Apparently, all of them.
Q - How many guitarists does it take to change a light bulb? A – Ten. One to do it and nine to say they could’ve done it better.
Q - What do you throw a drowning guitarist? A - His amplifier.
Q - How do you make a guitarist’s eyes light up? A - Shine a flashlight in his ear.
-
What do you say to a guitar player in a 3-piece suit ?
“Will the defendant please rise …”
-
What do a vacuum cleaner and an electric guitar have in common? Both suck when you plug them in.
Q: What does it mean when a guitarist is drooling from both sides of his mouth? A: The stage is level.
Q: Have you heard about the guitarist who was in tune? A: Neither have I.
Q: What’s the difference between a guitarist and an extra-large large pizza? A: The pizza CAN feed a family of four.
Q - What’s the best sound you can make with a guitar? A - A splash.
Q: What’s the definition of an optimist? A: A professional guitarist with a beeper.
Two explorers are on a raft paddling down the Amazon. All of a sudden, tribal drums start up: BOOM-da-da-BOOM-da-da-BOOM-da-da-BOOM-da-da.
The first explorer starts to panic, saying “Oh no, we’re in for it now… they’re going to kill us… we’ll never get out of here alive.”
His partner reassures him. “Don’t worry about the drums. They won’t kill us while the drumming is going on… it’s when they stop that you have to start worrying”.
By this time, the first explorer is really sweating. Glancing around in terror, he asks in a strangled voice, “Wh… what happens then?”
Grimly, the other replies, “Guitar solo.”
-
A young boy tells his mother, “When I grow up, I want to be a guitarist!”
His mother shakes her head. “Now now, son, you can’t do both.”
By FatMoose
March 31, 2006 02:20 PM | Link to this
I’ve never had to deal with ex’s, arguments, child support payments or any of that garbage.
Then what the heck gives you ANY right to berate someone with the personal attacks that you have when you have not even experienced ANY of it? You have NO perspective of the situation that is even SUBJECTIVE, much less OBJECTIVE.
I am convinced you have not told us your REAL story of why you are so damaged. I bet we would seriously feel for you if we knew the he!! you must have gone through to be this way. That, or you are purely mean and angry for no reason, which makes you a pretty bad person unfortunately.
You are one lost soul and I hope you find help. If not for yourself, for those you tear down in your circles.
Good luck to you as well.
By Jack
March 31, 2006 02:21 PM | Link to this
Oh Mara. Those are bad! LOL
By Julia
March 31, 2006 02:21 PM | Link to this
Typical “macho man” marries a typical good-looking lady and after the wedding, lays down the following rules:
“I’ll be home when I want, if I want and at what time I want and I don’t expect any hassle from you!
I expect a great dinner to be on the table unless I tell you otherwise. I’ll go hunting, fishing, boozin, and card-playing when I want with my old buddies and don’t you give me a hard time about it! Those are my rules…any comments?”
His new bride matter of factly says, “No, that’s fine with me. Just understand one thing… there will be sex here at seven o’clock every night - whether you’re HOME or not!”
By Julia
March 31, 2006 02:23 PM | Link to this
An accountant decided to leave his wife one day.
He left her a note saying:
“Dear Jane, I am 54 years old and I have never done anything wild. So I’m leaving you for an 18 year old blonde model. We’ll be staying at the Sheraton.”
He then packed his things and went there. When he arrived at the Sheraton, there was a message for him from his wife. It read:
“Dear John. I too am 54 years old. I have followed your example and am staying at the Hyatt with an 18 year old Italian hunk. And I’m sure that you, as an accountant, will appreciate that 18 goes into 54 many many more times than 54 goes into 18!”
By Mara
March 31, 2006 02:27 PM | Link to this
Renee @ 2:18 - well said.
By Renee
March 31, 2006 02:29 PM | Link to this
The Wizard of Oz comment was pretty funny.
By Justin
March 31, 2006 02:32 PM | Link to this
Thanks Renee, Jack, RF for understanding. I am upset because I thought if the child support bill passed without all the changes, my ex would at least be partially financially responsible and I could finally put my children in a camp this summer. So, I will pull back a bit from the bitterness but that was a hard pill to swallow. I thought with the child support commission’s study that equity would finally come. However, the greedy moms got to most of the female legislators and made it a man/poor woman issue. If fact, where it would affect most would be in upper income families where the woman is sitting on her bon-bon eating bon-bons.
Whiley, I just wish you could be in family court and see how even a good father can be decimated and stripped of his parental rights. I want the best for my children. I attend all their activities, involved in the PTA, go to their physician appointments even though I can’t stand my ex. She uses the child as pawns to try to control me. She also listens on the phone when I talk to them and questions them about what is in my home, what we eat, etc. I have moved on but she hasn’t. I just want to be able to save for my children’s future because I know she isn’t. Now I can’t even go back for a modification because they won’t count my time with the children. At least, it will prevent her from threatening to take me back because it could be reduced.
By Nikita
March 31, 2006 02:37 PM | Link to this
Justin, I can appreciate your issues with your ex-wife. However, I can’t afford to support children as I would like to at this point in my life and therefore I don’t have any. And I will never sympathize with those who crafted the law you keep championing as long as they seem to think that they should put their irresponsible decision-making off on the rest of us.
By Julia
March 31, 2006 02:37 PM | Link to this
What Women Want In A Man:
(Age 22) 1. Handsome 2. Charming 3. Financially successful 4. A caring listener 5. Witty 6. In good shape 7. Dresses with style 8. Appreciates the finer things 9. Full of thoughtful surprises 10. An imaginative, romantic lover
(Age 32) 1. Nice looking - preferably with hair on his head 2. Opens car doors, holds chairs 3. Has enough money for a nice dinner at a restaurant 4. Listens more then he talks 5. Laughs at my jokes at appropriate times 6. Can carry all the groceries wit hease 7. Owns at least one tie 8. Appreciates a good home cooked meal 9. Remembers anniversaries 10. Likes to be romantic at least once a week
(Age 42) 1. Not too ugly- Bald head OK 2. Doesn’t drive off until I’m in the car 3. Works steady- splurges on dinner at McDonald’s on occasion 4. Nods head at appropriate times when I’m talking 5. Usually remembers the punch line of jokes 6. Is in good enough shape to rearrange the furniture 7. Usually wears shirt that covers stomach 8. Knows not to buy champagne with screw top lids 9. Remembers to put the toilet seat down 10. Shaves on most weekends
(Age 52) 1. Keeps hair in nose and ears trimmed to appropriate length 2. Doesn’t belch or scratch in public 3. Doesn’t borrow money too often 4. Doesn’t nod off to sleep while I’m emoting 5. Doesn’t re-tell the same joke too many times 6. Is in good enough shape to get off the couch on weekends 7. Usually wears matching socks and fresh underwear 8. Appreciates a good TV dinner 9. Remembers your name on occasion 10. Shaves on some weekends
(Age 62) 1. Doesn’t scare small children 2. Remembers where the bathroom is 3. Doesn’t require much money for upkeep 4. Only snores lightly when awake (LOUDLY when asleep) 5. Forgets why he’s laughing 6. Is in good enough shape to stand up alone 7. Usually wears some clothes 8. Likes soft foods 9. Remembers where he left his teeth 10. Remembers when…
(Age 72) 1. Breathing…..
By Mara
March 31, 2006 02:38 PM | Link to this
Julia - I’m sure if Bla were here he’d be laughing as hard as I at the pregnancy no-nos ROTFL!!
Thanks Jack. Some of them are kinda lame but the “that’s why we judge on personality” ‘bout killed me
By Nikita
March 31, 2006 02:41 PM | Link to this
Justin, I can appreciate your issues with your ex-wife. However, I can’t afford to support children as I would like to at this point in my life and therefore I don’t have any. And I will never sympathize with those who crafted the law you keep championing as long as they seem to think that they should put their irresponsible decision-making off on the rest of us.
By Bruce
March 31, 2006 02:41 PM | Link to this
Fellow bloggers I am out of here for the next 9 days. FISHING, FISHING, FISHING!!!!!! Yes am I yelling, yes I am laughing out loud. I hope you all have a wonderful weekend, week and a great next weekend. Hugs and kisses and all that jazz.
By imjustsayin'
March 31, 2006 02:42 PM | Link to this
Whiley, you are a woman/identified/woman and that is great. However, you do really turn people off when you start throwing accusations around about ALL men. Then nobody listens to any of what you have to say. Renee, it seems you identify more with males than females. You always seem to feel the need to step in and defend men. It makes me wonder if you are one of those that wear men’s clothes and have a man’s haircut and clomp around like a man. Or do you just think men are too weak to take up for themselves? Wonderful jokes today ….
By Bruce
March 31, 2006 02:46 PM | Link to this
Fellow bloggers I am out of here for the next 9 days. FISHING, FISHING, FISHING!!!!!! Yes am I yelling, yes I am laughing out loud. I hope you all have a wonderful weekend, week and a great next weekend. Hugs and kisses and all that jazz.
By Mara
March 31, 2006 02:47 PM | Link to this
Justin, sorry about your situation. It’s obvous that you love your child very much. Perhap, however, it isn’t so much you bitterness toward your ex that’s putting people off. For me, it’s that you take that bitterness and paint every other female in the world with the same brush, even those of us who have never, and would never, sink to her level. For whatever it’s worth, that’s what I have to say. Best wishes and good luck Justin.
By Julia
March 31, 2006 02:47 PM | Link to this
An extraordinarily handsome man decided he had the God-given responsibility to marry the perfect woman so they could produce children beyond comparison.
With that as his mission he began searching for the perfect woman. After a diligent, but fruitless, search up and down the east coast, he started to head west. Shortly thereafter he met a farmer who had three stunning, gorgeous daughters that positively took his breath away. So he explained his mission to the farmer, asking for permission to marry one of them.
The farmer simply replied, “They’re all lookin’ to get married, so you came to the right place. Look them over and select the one you want.”
The man dated the first daughter. The next day the farmer asked for the man’s opinion. “Well” said the man, ” She’s just a weeeeee bit, not that you can hardly notice, but pigeon-toed.”
The farmer nodded and suggested the man date one of the other girls; so the man went out with the second daughter.
The next day, the farmer again asked how things went. “Well,” the man replied, “She’s just a weeeee bit, not that you can hardly tell, cross-eyed.”
The farmer nodded and suggested he date the third girl to see if things might be better. So he did.
The next morning the man rushed in exclaiming, “She’s perfect, just perfect! She’s the one I want to marry!” So they were wed right away.
Months later the baby was born. When the man visited nursery he was horrified: the baby was the ugliest, most pathetic human you can imagine. He rushed to his father-in-law asking how such a thing could happen considering the parents.
“Well,” explained the farmer, “She was just a weeeee bit, not that you could hardly tell, pregnant when you met her.”
By Julia
March 31, 2006 02:49 PM | Link to this
A little boy opened the big and old family Bible with fascination, looking at the old pages as he turned them. Then something fell out of the Bible and he picked it up and looked at it closely. It was an old leaf from a tree that has been pressed in between the pages.
“Momma, look what I found,” the boy called out. “What have you got there, dear?” his mother asked. With astonishment in the young boy’s voice he answered, “It’s Adam’s suit!!”
By Renee
March 31, 2006 02:51 PM | Link to this
imjustsayin’- I certainly HOPE you are not a man since you don’t have the balls to put your “regular” name out there. To answer your “question” no I am not one of the ones (you should say what you meant, but I’ll address it anyway) that wears men clothes, and has a man’s haircut or clomps around like a man. I am 100% feminine.
BUT, here’s the thing. If I did wear men’s clothes, have a man’s haircut, and clomp around like a man, so what of it? Is it your business, do you pay my bills, buy my clothes, or are you laying in the bed with me at night. Or maybe you are just a woman trying to feel me out to see if I’ll hook you up. Nah, sweetie, this diva is spoken for.
POOF - BE GONE!!!
By Julia
March 31, 2006 02:51 PM | Link to this
Just after I got married, I decided to have a night with “the boys.”
I told the misses that I would be home by midnight…promise! Well, the yarns were being spun and the grog was going down easy, and at around 3 a.m. full as a boot, I went home.
Just as I got in the door, the cuckoo clock started, and cuckooed 3 times. Quickly I realized she’d probably wake up, so I cuckooed another 9 times. I was really proud of myself, having the quick wittedness, even when smashed, to escape a possible conflict.
The next morning the misses asked me what time I got in and I told her 12 o’clock. Whew! Got away with that one!
She then told me that we needed a new cuckoo clock. When I asked her why she said “Well, it cuckooed 3 times, said ‘sh!t,’ cuckooed another 4 times, farted, cuckooed another 3 times, cleared its throat, and cuckooed twice then giggled.”
By Julia
March 31, 2006 02:54 PM | Link to this
A young man took a blind date to an amusement park.
They went for a ride on the Ferris wheel. The ride completed, she seemed rather bored.
“What would you like to do next?” he asked.
“I wanna be weighed,” she said. So the young man took her over to the weight guesser. “One-twelve,” said the man at the scale, and he was absolutely right.
Next they rode the roller coaster. After that, he bought her some popcorn and cotton candy, then he asked what else she would like to do.
“I wanna be weighed,” she said.
I really latched onto a square one tonight, thought the young man, and using the excuse he had developed a headache, he took the girl home.
The girl’s mother was surprised to see her home so early, and asked, “What’s wrong, dear, didn’t you have a nice time tonight?”
“Wousy!” said the girl.
By Just Being Me
March 31, 2006 02:56 PM | Link to this
I’m Just Saying
Wonder no more. I know Renee personally and she is far from the type to “wear men’s clothes and have a man’s haircut and clomp around like a man.” Renee is as much a diva here as she is in real life, boo.
By Whiley
March 31, 2006 02:59 PM | Link to this
Now I know everybody knows i’m not saying all men, just most of them. Justin, you aren’t the normal case. $1700 is a lot of money & most women would be grateful to get that. It shouldn’t matter what SHE makes, it’s based on what YOU make. Now as far as you having to pay when you get them 1/2 the time, that sounds unfair.
The laws that were passed I can see hurt you. But remember they are for the majority of cases where the mother makes less & has the children if not all the time then most. You can’t fit in that situation. I don’t see why it can’t be a case by case thing.
And I seriously wasn’t trying to be mean to you. You just shouldn’t even be considering making future children if you are having financial issues with the ones you have now. BTW how many do you have?
By RF
March 31, 2006 03:04 PM | Link to this
imjustsayin’— If ignorance is bliss, you must be the happiest person alive!
The sistah Renee just threw up the hand, eyesbrows raised!! You better run while you can before she bares the nails and rips something off that can’t be put back on!!!
By Just Being Me
March 31, 2006 03:10 PM | Link to this
Just wanted to post this update (since you know I follow the Genarlow Wilson case pretty closely):
On March 30, 2006 the Georgia General Assembly passed a strong Romeo and Juliet law which says that teens cannot be prosecuted for a felony or be required to register as sexual offenders for teenage consensual sexual acts.
Specifically when a teen is 14 or 15 and engages in any consensual sexual act with someone within four years of age and no older than 18 years of age, the older teen can only be charged with a misdemeanor and is not required to register as a sexual offender. If the sexual act is sodomy and it is consensual then the covered ages is 13, 14, or 15 that engages in consensual oral sex with another teen within four years of age and no older than 18 years of age.
The age differential for oral sex was done because of the CDC study showing the high numbers of 13 year olds engaging in oral sex and the desire not to trigger the possibility of 17 year olds receiving the new 25 year minimum in prison for that act.
The bill is now awaiting the Governor’s signature and when signed by him, goes into effect on July 1, 2006. This provision is part of an entire law rewriting the sex offender laws in Georgia. Had this law been in effect when Genarlow Wilson was arrested, or had been done after the Marcus Dixon case, Genarlow would not now be in jail.
Genarlow and his mother are overjoyed that no one else in Georgia will have to know their pain. Meantime, the legal fight goes on for Genarlow Wilson. We await the decision of the Georgia Court of Appeals and I am doing everything I can to release him.
By Renee
March 31, 2006 03:12 PM | Link to this
ROFL RF…hahahahaha
By lozen
March 31, 2006 03:13 PM | Link to this
Mara, Mara, you’re killing me! Did you date Lorena Bobbitt? ROTFLMAO!!!!!
By Justin
March 31, 2006 03:13 PM | Link to this
Renee, You are my dream!
Whiley, You are my nightmare!
Jack, Why did you mess up my joke? Remember, there were two wicked witches in the story. Hehehe
By Chilao
March 31, 2006 03:13 PM | Link to this
All those geetar jokes made me think of the SNL skit several years ago when Christian Slater hosted.
He and the SNL crew are sitting on beds in someone’s bedroom, talking about forming a band. Mom downstairs occassionally yells upstairs with “Keep it down, guys” and “You guys aren’t smoking weed, are you?”.
They go round and round about what to call their new band, finally come up with a Hip Band-sounding name. It is settled, they have a NAME for their band.
then Christian Slater(his place, his Mom), asks “So who is going to play what?”.
By FatMoose
March 31, 2006 03:16 PM | Link to this
Now I know everybody knows i’m not saying all men, just most of them.
And either case is incorrect, the majority do not perform in the manner you speak. And, as you stated, you have no interaction with the process and therefore can only be claiming what you see on Opra each day or some similar skewed media.
But go ahead, use conjecture and ignorance plus a lot of lying to get your misdirected anger out. Make more people like yourself so you can feel justified in berating people you do not know regarding situations you have never been in.
Its your character.
By Jack
March 31, 2006 03:18 PM | Link to this
I picture Renee’as being fine. As in FINE. Maybe I’m wrong but I doubt it.
By chuck
March 31, 2006 03:20 PM | Link to this
Yeah Justin, don’t you know that if you actually have a baby that LIVES, that you are a FETUS LOVER?!?!? Whiley has to be mean to you. Not only are you a MAN, but you are also a FETUS LOVER.
By Julia
March 31, 2006 03:21 PM | Link to this
imjustsayin is probably “you-know-who”. (JBM’s fave person.)
Renee-he’s obviously off his rocker.
By Just Being Me
March 31, 2006 03:23 PM | Link to this
Jack, nope. You’re way off.
She’s fine as in FOINE!!! :-)
By Whiley
March 31, 2006 03:23 PM | Link to this
“Now I know everybody knows i’m not saying all men, just most of them.”
LOL get a sense of humor. i’ll say, seriously 1/2 of men. It’s true, sad but true.
I don’t associate with the other 1/2, so actually my physical experience with men is pretty good ! (take that however you want, it’s FRIDAY)
By RF
March 31, 2006 03:24 PM | Link to this
Renee- you’d think folks would know by now you don’t mess with sistah, even if she does giggle a lot and bat her eyelashes. She’s still a tiger underneath!!LOL
By Jack
March 31, 2006 03:32 PM | Link to this
I wanna be weighed this weekend.
By Whiley
March 31, 2006 03:34 PM | Link to this
Chuck he’s not a fetus lover unless he forces his ex (or anybody else he has unprotected sex with) to grow a baby from a fetus, then not give 2 hoots about it after it’s born when it’s actually a baby.
By Renee
March 31, 2006 03:34 PM | Link to this
Awwwwww JBM thanks!!!
~~blushing and batting eyelashes~~
Thanks, Jack. I don’t want to brag, but let’s just say I’ve never had any problems getting who I want (or who they appear to be when you FIRST meet them lol).
Julia, I was kinda thinking that….
By RF
March 31, 2006 03:35 PM | Link to this
JBM- IT’S ABOUT DANG TIME!! Finally, the legislature figures it out. I wonder how long the courts will take to review Genarlow’s case. I hope they won’t quit until the whole thing is removed from his record!! I’d still like to slap the girl AND her mama…okay, I’ll quit and be happy the law finally changed!!!!
By FatMoose
March 31, 2006 03:35 PM | Link to this
LOL get a sense of humor. i’ll say, seriously 1/2 of men. It’s true, sad but true.
Still incorrect Whiley. I actually posted the real number for you many times and a couple times with links.
What that means to me is that you do KNOW the real %, and simply choose to ignore what does not fit in your paradigm, not unlike chuck, and that makes you a bad person by definition. That is your choice - not mine and has nothing to do with sense of humor.
By Jack
March 31, 2006 03:39 PM | Link to this
Nite All! Going to a meeting then off to the cave for the weekend. Everyone have a good one! (maybe two)
By Jack K
March 31, 2006 03:40 PM | Link to this
Did everyone miss me???? Had to show up for joke day!!!!
Confucious say…
…woman sitting in jelly have her a$$ in jam. …he who smoke pot, choke on handle. …woman who wear g-string, high on crack! …he who stand on toilet, high on pot! …boy who go to bed with sex problem on mind, wake up with solution on-hand! …man who masturbate into cash register, soon come into money! …he who masturbate, screw only himself! …he who walks thru airplane door sideways is going to Bangkok!
By RF
March 31, 2006 03:41 PM | Link to this
Well kids, I’m out of here. Gotta go enjoy spring break with my boys!! Have a good one all!
By Just Being Me
March 31, 2006 03:43 PM | Link to this
That’s why I love you so much, RF!!
Julia and Renee - Actually, I was starting to think that most of the “anonymous” bloggers have the very same identity.
By GOB
March 31, 2006 03:45 PM | Link to this
LOL get a sense of humor. i’ll say, seriously 1/2 of men. It’s true, sad but true.
I don’t associate with the other 1/2
What is your basis for the claim that half of the male population are absolutly horrible people? Half of the adult male population in the country comes out somewhere around 40 million. That is a pretty major claim.
How can you claim to know what the othe half does if you dont associate with them.
Also, do you believe that half of the men on this blog would beat their wives (significant other), abuse their children and then walk out and leave them alone? Just curious.
By Jack
March 31, 2006 03:47 PM | Link to this
I’ll bet Julia and Mara are hot too. :)
By Netbanker
March 31, 2006 03:52 PM | Link to this
So who is close to Norcross and can deliver a bottle of Jack Daniels or maybe a dry martini? It’s been a killer day!
By Justin
March 31, 2006 03:53 PM | Link to this
Mara, thank you.
Renee, we know you are wonderful!
Whiley, I apologize. See I can do that. I know several men in my situation. I have two children. And, judges just lump us all in the same category, even when the experts/guardian ad litem/psychologists say otherwise. Usually, they are doing crossword puzzles or upset because their play time is disrupted. The court system disgusts me.
By Renee
March 31, 2006 03:55 PM | Link to this
JBM’s a pretty hot tamale herself!!! WHEW!!! ~~fanning~~
By Julia
March 31, 2006 03:55 PM | Link to this
JBM-Could be. (Kind of strange though.Why bother?)
By Justin
March 31, 2006 03:57 PM | Link to this
Jack, I agree with both your 3:18 p.m. and 03:47 p.m. posts!
By Mara
March 31, 2006 03:58 PM | Link to this
Jack darlin’, flattery will get you everywhere LOL! :^)
Well, folks. Much as I’d like to stay, it’s beer thirty and I’m late, late, late. (not “late” like that!!) so I’m outta her. Air kisses for all. C-ya next week XOXO
By Renee
March 31, 2006 03:58 PM | Link to this
Thanks Justin!!
Net, if I hadn’t moved from Norcross (up here to the North Pole) I would bring you a bottle of Jack!
By Just Being Me
March 31, 2006 04:01 PM | Link to this
Justin, if it’s any consolation (which I’m sure it’s not), I have a female friend in your situation.
By Julia
March 31, 2006 04:01 PM | Link to this
Hey Net, I’m in Gwinnett. Ok everyone we’re meeting up with Net for a financial lesson over martinis and margaritas….:)
Jack-I’ll bet you’re a hunk.
By Julia
March 31, 2006 04:08 PM | Link to this
Thanks Justin!
I’ve had my own bad experience with men and am a single mom. But I don’t judge all men by one #@$%&%$@#. ;) I’m sorry you’re going through this. You sound like a good dad. I wish my son had one of those.
By Just Being Me
March 31, 2006 04:09 PM | Link to this
Julia, tell me when and where. I’ll be there.
By Julia
March 31, 2006 04:10 PM | Link to this
Thanks Justin!
I’ve had my own bad experience with men and am a single mom. But I don’t judge all men by one #@$%&%$@#. ;) I’m sorry you’re going through this. You sound like a good dad. I wish my son had one of those.
By Julia
March 31, 2006 04:13 PM | Link to this
JBM-It DOES sound good doesn’t it?!!!
Frozen…no salt…cheese dip with jalapenos…..
(Why am I still at work when everyone else is going home?)
By Justin
March 31, 2006 04:15 PM | Link to this
Just Being Me, I don’t think your female friend should be treated unfairly. No one should…Both parents should be responsible for their children.
By lozen
March 31, 2006 04:16 PM | Link to this
Candide, Look at the website “Why Does God hate amputees?” http://whydoesgodhateamputees.com/god1.htm
By GOB
March 31, 2006 04:17 PM | Link to this
Why am I still at work when everyone else is going home?
Julia - I am asking myself the same thing…and Friday before spring break traffic is going to be a nightmare…good times.
By Julia
March 31, 2006 04:20 PM | Link to this
And for the record, I haven’t had a margarita in about 3 years. (Just remembering how good they taste.)
My mom watched my son so I could go out for my birthday 3 yrs ago. (Wow, has it been that long.)
:<
By Julia
March 31, 2006 04:24 PM | Link to this
GOB-Thanks for the heads up on traffic. I didn’t think of that. Better leave early to pick up my son by 6:00.
‘You see boss…I HAVE TO leave early today.’
Oh yeah.
By Whiley
March 31, 2006 04:29 PM | Link to this
Fatmoose my opinion is 1/2 the population is either nuts, bad breeders, dangerous, cheaters, drug users, bad drinkers, pervs, Jerry Springer types, can’t be trusted around the opposite sex, boring or just plain has bad breath. LOL YOU CAN’T DENY THAT !
Since I only date men I have little to no opinion on what it’s like to date women.
Sorry I’ve been so hard on you Justin, (OHH i did not just SAY THAT !) I’m more the “prove to me I can trust you” kind of person, because a lot of people fit in the list (see above)
So why is it such a big deal to have family court go case by case? No attorneys, just a group of smart people & a few judges. Everybody sitting around a table, somebody orders a pizza I discuss it all?
By Netbanker
March 31, 2006 04:38 PM | Link to this
Thanks Renee and Julia. I’m still at work writing process flows at the moment. I’m wondering why I’m still here too when I was in the office by 8am…and the people leaving got here after that. Oh right! You make up for getting to work late by leaving early.
I’m more of the rocks/salt type, but watch out on cheese dip…mmmm…with some fresh, warm chips. No seminars tonight! I have that ordingation ceremony…which means I need to get outta here.
By GOB
March 31, 2006 04:40 PM | Link to this
Fatmoose my opinion is 1/2 the population is either nuts, bad breeders, dangerous, cheaters, drug users, bad drinkers, pervs, Jerry Springer types, can’t be trusted around the opposite sex, boring or just plain has bad breath. LOL YOU CAN’T DENY THAT!
While we cant deny that what you wrote is your opinion, we can certainly deny the validity of it. 40 million (and that number is very, very conservative) is a lot of people to put into the catagoies you listed.
What portion of the female population do you think fall into the same catagories?
By FatMoose
March 31, 2006 04:48 PM | Link to this
Fatmoose my opinion is…
So you change a word to “opinion” and add…Bad breath? And that gives you a right to berate someone, accuse them of horrendous things, accuse all men (you know you have admitted this) are to blame for the minority that are disturbed.
Your issues are FAR greater than bad breath. So, on the female side of your arguement, you fall in the bad half, and realistically you fall in the 1% that makes up the psycho-girlfriend catagory. Just FYI since you do not date women.
Almost forgot: LOL; Do not take this too seriously of course. (Would anyone else BUT a psychopath act this wack by mixing some of the worst slander I have seen with “LOL, just kiddin’, ya’ know?” speach.)
Really, You are sick and need help.
By joseph
March 31, 2006 04:53 PM | Link to this
I was in my room one night when suddenly my room was filled with a brilliant light. Then suddenly an angel appeared. The angel told me an amazing story. He said there was a set of old golden plates buried in the side of a hill in New York. These were the books of a lost race of Jewish people who lived here in the U. S. and the plates were inscribed with the foreign language of those people.
Then the angel lead me to the plates and let me take them home. Even though the plates were in a foreign language, the angel helps me to decipher and translate them. Then the plates are taken up into heaven and never seen again. I have the book that I translated from the plates. It tells of amazing things — an entire civilization of Jewish people living here in the United States 2,000 years ago. And the resurrected Jesus came and visited these people! I have proof that this is true because I showed the golden plates to a number of people. They are my eye witnesses and I have their signed statements that they did, in fact, see and touch the plates before the plates were taken up into heaven.
By Julia
March 31, 2006 04:53 PM | Link to this
FM-Are you still at work like the few left on the blog?
I think you need a margarita too! ;)
By Whiley
March 31, 2006 04:55 PM | Link to this
What portion of the female population do you think fall into the same catagories?
Ok i’ve never been good at math, lets see, bad breeders that’s going to be high percentage of women, other than that, just generally speaking, less number than men because men are as a group more dangerous & full of pervs. I can’t really say a number, but If I had to, of that 50% of the bad seeds, 35-40% are women. If that number discounted all the bad breeders & drunks/drug users, it would be around, my guess 20-25%.
By Just Being Me
March 31, 2006 04:58 PM | Link to this
Still at work.
By Chilao
March 31, 2006 05:01 PM | Link to this
Joseph - is there a punch-line there? I don’t get the joke, call me slow.
Whiley - does your new diagnosis mean the enagagement is off?
I had some 23 year old, fresh outta college, engaged, to be married this summer, come to me earlier and try to offer me all kinds of advice about what men my age should be doing to find that third wife. It is joke day, right?
By FatMoose
March 31, 2006 05:02 PM | Link to this
Julia,
Yep - leaving in a few.
I do not drink - maybe a beer or two every 3-6months; but it serves no real purpose for me.
Thanks for the offer. A frisbee, guitar, and my dog at the park will do wonders come tomorrow - nice company would be a plus; but that is usually the surprise part;)
Take care.
By Tamika
March 31, 2006 05:03 PM | Link to this
To Justin I just love men who whine, whine, whine about how some woman done them wrong. Poor little men. You are so discriminated against. Didn’t your name on here used to be Gina?
By Whiley
March 31, 2006 05:05 PM | Link to this
WHY in the world is it SLANDER to call it for like it is? I wouldn’t date or associate with a perv & I wouldn’t sit down for conversation with a guy with bad breath either! Some may find excitement in associating with Jerry Springer type drinkers that can’t stay out of trouble, but I don’t. Why is that slander? lol The only opinion I have about Psycho Girlfriends is DON’T date psycho women! DUH. As soon as the psycho behavior starts you DON’T continue to date them or have sex without condoms. DUH.
By Whiley
March 31, 2006 05:07 PM | Link to this
Oh my I’ve touched a nerve with Fatmoose. He must be in that category with the bad breath.