AJC.com > Opinion > Woman to Woman > Archives > 2005 > September > 15 > Entry
Should aid be allowed to promote religious messages during disaster relief?
Shaunti Feldhahn, a right-leaning columnist, writes the commentary this week and Diane Glass, a left-leaning columnist, responds.
Shaunti Feldhahn, a right-leaning columnist, writes the commentary this week and Diane Glass, a left-leaning columnist, responds.
Commentary
Days after Katrina hit, as exhausted disaster responders helped the hurting, the president of American Atheists criticized “religion-based ‘aid’ groups” for bringing “evangelists” into the disaster area. “People need material aid,” Ellen Johnson said, “not prayers and preaching.”
Now, most observers are grateful for the extensive relief efforts of religious groups. But even so, some grow uncomfortable with those groups actually fulfilling their mission by meeting people’s needs as fully as they can — including the spiritual needs that rise up in times of crisis. Society has so tried to sequester faith away (it belongs in church, not out in public!), that some can’t imagine that that could be what vulnerable people are aching for.
All disaster response, religious or not, concentrates most on physical needs. But if devastated victims are seeking more –– actively seeking the comfort of a Solid Rock amid the shifting sands — it would be cruel to withhold it.
Dr. Bob Reccord heads the North American operations of the Southern Baptist Convention, including their mammoth disaster response operations. And as he told me recently, “I’ve been in a lot of disaster relief settings, and I have never seen anyone respond ‘Don’t push that religious stuff on me.’ When physical trauma and need exist there is inevitably a deep-seated spiritual need in the heart of people. Nobody puts it there, nobody tries to create it, it’s simply there because of the tenuous nature of life. So in addition to meeting someone’s physical needs first and foremost, we often meet spiritual needs. But we never force anything on anybody. We are simply working for the greatest benefit to victims, whatever their needs are.”
Most people of faith do not respond to disaster in order to “push religion,” but out of a heart of love and compassion for those who are hurting. That spiritual response may not always be done perfectly, but it must be able to be done. Because, as Dr. Reccord put it, “In days of hopelessness, we can offer hope. And if people have hope again, their resiliency will come through and take care of itself.”
Rebuttal
For those of you who believe in the power of prayer, I sure hope you were praying for Katrina’s victims long before the formally sanctioned “day of prayer” granted by President Bush. This officious day of remembrance smells a lot like a Marxian opiate to me. Otherwise, how could I explain the oddity of our leader violating our First Amendment right to the separation of church and state? Because, as Shaunti is oft to point out: Secularism is also a religious belief, one that isn’t included in official calls of prayer, or the persistent annoying sound of evangelical proselytizing.
Shaunti deflects who is really responsible because what we’re talking about are Christian aid relief organizations, not all “religious-based” groups. Other world religions don’t have the same single-minded call to convert, as there is in Christian theology.
Which is why it’s naïve to think evangelical aid workers are only there to help. Missionaries have a “mission” and evangelicals are “committed”. They may provide assistance to those in need, but they aren’t “in it” to help so much as to amass obedient followers.
The Christian and Missionary Alliance website clearly states that their intent is to encourage “believers of diverse backgrounds and theological traditions to unite in an alliance to know and exalt Jesus Christ”. The National Association of Evangelicals has identical objectives to “extend the Kingdom of God” through fellowship. Then there’s the modern day tenets of the “Jews for Jesus” organization that litters the streets with pamphlets in pursuit of passing yarmulkes. And let’s not forget that Jesus told his posse to be “fishers of men” before ascending to the heavens.
I think it’s much more noble (not to mention Christian) to give aid with no ulterior motive. I also think it’s dishonest to assist someone in the guise of helping him while he’s vulnerable, like a wolf in a Grimm’s fairy tale. Relief workers would do better to assist (and not persist) in spreading the Gospel, simply because helping someone is kind; stalking the weak and vulnerable is predatory.
Comments
Commenting is now closed for this entry.
By Garth Patterson
September 18, 2005 02:54 PM | Link to this
“Society has so tried to sequester faith away (it belongs in church, not out in public!)”
With this statement, Shaunti classically illustrates the (in my opinion the deliberate) obfuscation of the term “God in public life”, ie., getting God and/or religion into government. Its an obfuscation because the term “in public life” portrays living one’s religious practices out ‘in public’ (which of course includes in the government, but fundamentalists conveniently leave mentioning that part out). And by and large relgious people have no real complaint with living ones religion (supposedly) in front of other people. Out in public.
When you mix that in with the tearing down of the wall of separation of church and state, it makes that tearing down more palatable, more socially acceptable, … and a more deceptive act by the Religious Reich— err, Right.
As far as offering religiouos materials/prayers, as long as its done by a private group, no problems. But when its done by a public (read government sponsored) group, then we have problems, and I can readily agree with American Atheists about their complaint.
By John
September 18, 2005 05:48 PM | Link to this
WOW! What a clear difference between the ideology of light and life…as apposed to the ideology of darkness and death.
By Sydney
September 18, 2005 07:07 PM | Link to this
Of course it is expected that Christian aid groups promote their validation routine when giving aid. “Please, Please, think like me, Please?”. Or to conversely state: What is the difference between a cult and an organized religion? About 10,000 members. No, don’t need some blog moron to indicate to me there are more than 10,000 Christians. Probably that many in individual interpretaton groups, otherwise called Denominations.
The real question is: Are there governmental dollars involved? Of course there are, thanks to our upcoming State Theocracy. Y’all getting out your Sunday Worshipping cards? Might need them in the future for any economic transaction. And if that is not your day for worshipping, you are just SOOL. We got the walled-in housing project for you guys. FEMA might even direct.
Sidebar: who is the largest purchaser of modular prison cells? FEMA. Just in case us natives get restless when the state religion comes down.
For the pleasantness of it all, see the movie A Handmaid’s Tale.
By MamaS
September 18, 2005 10:15 PM | Link to this
If you think Christians are there not so much to help as to amass obedient followers then you know very little about Christians. The New Testament directs us to aid the less fortunate I was sick and you visited me, I was naked and you clothed me because of their need. The Presbyterian Church in McDonough (Henry County) mobilized volunteers and processed over 10,000 guests in one week, providing hot meals, clothing, housing, school registrations and medical care. Their volunteers were more efficient than the professional Red Cross workers. Governor and Mrs. Purdue even toured this facility. People who have lost everything need hope even more than they need a handout. Who is in more of a position to offer hope: Christian volunteers or FEMA employees?
By Lyrazel
September 19, 2005 07:41 AM | Link to this
I am sure Atheists Society on Katrina relief are there with donations. I have seen trucks from the Salvation Army and variety of churches loaded down with donations for assisting those in need. I have seen church groups bringing food into Second Harvest for distribution among them who need, not them who believe! Perhaps Diane should come down and chastize them who are left in ruin praying the FEMA phone lines will open…for mixing faith and government. Other world religions don’t have the same single-minded call to convert, as there is in Christian theology. What a load of malarky Diane!
By taboga
September 19, 2005 07:46 AM | Link to this
Another topic to bring out the babblings and ramblings of Separation of Church and State.
Can we take a guess at the percentage of people who were effected by Katrina - as to how many of those folks were Christians?
I would guess that the overwhelming vast majority of them are Christians. So, who is it, that might be offended or displeased with supposed religious messages intertwined with relief efforts?
Please give me something to eat and drink, along with warm and dry clothes. But don’t you dare mention Jesus - I’d rather stay here and die rather than having to endure that horror!
What a ridiculous topic. But no doubt the Christian-Bashers will be out in full force strutting their stuff…
By Brian Curtis
September 19, 2005 07:47 AM | Link to this
If a private religious group wants to “offer” aid but only on condition that you agree to be preached at… well, it’s despicable, but that’s their right. And I’m sure plenty of REAL Christians and REAL Christian groups are offering whatever aid they can with no strings attached. (Something the fundies may want to look into when they preen and strut about their “good works.”)
But as Sydney has already pointed out: it’s no business of government to get involved in religious matters in any way. Period.
By Gil Gibson
September 19, 2005 07:53 AM | Link to this
Of all the prejudiced, ignorant bull in Diane’s latest screed against Christianity, the largest chunk is “Other world religions don’t have the same single-minded call to convert, as there is in Christian theology.”
Ever hear of Islam, Diane? Their call is “convert or we’ll kill you.”
BTW, where are the pictures of trucks of relief supplies sent by the Council on American-Islamic Relations?
By taboga
September 19, 2005 07:58 AM | Link to this
For the pleasantness of it all, see the movie A Handmaid’s Tale.
As usual, a Liberal reconciles things by point to a: Movie.
By Dusty
September 19, 2005 07:58 AM | Link to this
Another loopy topic. The topic should be “Why let atheists say anything about the giving of aid during a disaster?” Well, the answer would be, because they have freedom of speech. BUT, religious people also have freedom of speech. Churches are not governmental agencies to be regulated, unless they “break the law”. Church volunteers can say what they want to say just like atheists. If that is called stalking and predatory (as Diane writes), then freedom of speech is doomed. After that failure, EVERYBODY will say only what is permitted.
By Bruce
September 19, 2005 08:00 AM | Link to this
Correct me if I am wrong, and I’m sure you will, but haven’t we heard so many complaints of how the Red Cross didn’t do this and FEMA was late and all the negitive sides to these two relief organizations? These two are the biggest relief organization in our country, if not the world. The Southern Baptist Convention is the third. How many negitive reports have we heard about the SBC? Were are the American Atheists in all this? How much relief have they provided to these people? It is so easy for those not doning anything that amounts to to much to critize those leading the way. If you aren’t going to do anything positive get out of the way and keep your mouth shut.
By Brian Curtis
September 19, 2005 08:06 AM | Link to this
Bruce: Thankfully, “keep your mouth shut” is not a suggestion that works on Americans. As Dusty pointed out, we have every right to say what we please about any topic under the sun… kinda the point of having a forum, don’t you think?
And Dusty’s right: Atheists and churches alike have the right to say what they want, when and where they want. Of course, churches also enjoy a special privilege (not a right, a privilege) of tax-exemption, and to qualify for it they have to stay out of politics. But that’s another topic.
If a church wants to sent aid, with or without preaching, that’s up to them. If they make the aid conditional on preaching, it’s disgusting and abusive… but it’s still their right. As long as government dollars aren’t involved in the preaching, everything’s fine.
By taboga
September 19, 2005 08:06 AM | Link to this
And I’m sure plenty of REAL Christians and REAL Christian groups are offering whatever aid they can with no strings attached. (Something the fundies may want to look into when they preen and strut about their “good works.�)
Nitwit,
I’m sure that ALL of them are offering aid with NO strings attached!
There hasn’t been one instance anywhere of any religious groups attaching any strings to anything in their assistance with relief for these folks!
This whole absurd topic was pulled from thin air - just so that little nitwits like you would have something to bash Christians with!
And as usual, you haven’t let them down.
By Randy
September 19, 2005 08:08 AM | Link to this
ONLY IF YOU WANT PEOPLE TO HAVE A CHANCE TO GO TO HEAVEN!!!!
By Renee
September 19, 2005 08:30 AM | Link to this
How could anyone speculate on the amount of people down there that were Christians, to say that most of them are is ridiculous, who knows.
But if a group wants to preach while they render that aid it is definitely that right. If you don’t want help from them then don’t get it. Now if the government was preaching as they render aid that would be totally different.
By Renee
September 19, 2005 08:43 AM | Link to this
I’m really disappointed with the topic this week. Seems like a no brainer to me.
The Christians groups may try to push their beliefs but they will help EVERYBODY. And help is the important thing.
By Jack
September 19, 2005 08:55 AM | Link to this
This topic is totally ridiculous. Do the victims of disasters really care who they get help from? Drinkable water is drinkable water. If I were in a dire situation such as the folks in New Orleans, someone could hand me a jug of water and say “thank Allah” and I would take the water and say “Bless you”. We need to get rid of this subject and get something worth debating.
By taboga
September 19, 2005 09:05 AM | Link to this
How could anyone speculate on the amount of people down there that were Christians, to say that most of them are is ridiculous, who knows.
Renee,
We can “speculate” because these folks are from Louisiana, Mississippi and Alabama.
Those three states are in the South. The overwhelming vast majority of people in the South are Christians.
Therefore, we can “speculate” that the vast majority of people effected by the disaster are: Christians.
See how easy that is? Now, if this disaster occurred in Mozambique we might not “speculate” the same thing.
By Renee
September 19, 2005 09:06 AM | Link to this
Amen Jack!
By Scalia
September 19, 2005 09:08 AM | Link to this
Taboga…do you just play the devil’s advocate for the sake of having nothing better to do?
Last week, or week before last, you complained about people helping the people from Hurricane Katrina to make themselves feel good and give themselves a pat on the back, and now this morning you are saying people are doing it with no strings attached. Which one is it?
By taboga
September 19, 2005 09:15 AM | Link to this
Scalia,
Then you missed my point last week. I was not talking at all about the people who were really down there helping folks. I was talking about all the do-gooders who aren’t actually doing anything, but rather out here on blogs and the like, railing on and on about how much they care about those folks.
There’s a BIG difference…
By Brian Curtis
September 19, 2005 09:16 AM | Link to this
Scalia: You’re close… taboga is actually a brainless and cowardly troll. Since he can’t compete in an actual debate (having neither facts nor sense on his side), he just hangs around to snipe at people and show off his incompetence. That’s why I never respond to his bait; he’s just too damn stupid to be worth my time.
By Archie
September 19, 2005 09:17 AM | Link to this
Jack I agree with your 8:55 am post. I guess Diane had to write something in opposition to basically non-topic. I have a topic suggestion. Why don’t women watch the WNBA and why don’t women support women’s boxing in great numbers? These are suggestions…
By Chilao
September 19, 2005 09:26 AM | Link to this
Is this a serious topic? Wait, I asked that last week.
Part of what makes America great is the ability to attempt to share your faith, if you are so inclined. I think it is called Freedom of Speech.
However, I am unaware of any Christian aid groups that make proselytizing a matter of policy for any aid given. Sure, there may be Bible Studies available, etc, but certainly doubt it conditional for aid. There may be a few exceptions to this, but it would not be the norm. Christians are assisting based on their Christian principles. And doubt there are any saying “You dummies should have gotten out before having to go to the Superdome, morons”. Well, at least the ones freely giving aid.
At this point in our country’s history, we all know about Christianity so doubt anyone operating in a vacumn and actually need these aid groups to let them know about what gives with Christianity.
By Bobb
September 19, 2005 09:30 AM | Link to this
Diane has a bigger issue here. She claims that the President’s call for a national day of prayer is “…violating our First Amendment right to the separation of church and state”. The Dianes of the world won’t be happy till the First Ammendment is interpreted to mean that that no one - public offical or private citizen - can make any public relgious utterance lest it offend a non-beliver.
By Scalia
September 19, 2005 09:34 AM | Link to this
I don’t get it. So they offer these people prayer? Most people have been a situation where they have to pray, or say the grace. Reading the bible could be good, and give them peace of mine thinking why did this happen. The story of Job, for example, could be reassuring, and give them hope that better things are going to come.
But Archie, that is a good point about women and women sports. It could be because women feel that gymnastics and cheerleading are feminine, and the other sports are not. Tennis and soccer are the exceptions.
By Renee
September 19, 2005 09:39 AM | Link to this
Personally, I love the WBNA and women’s boxing. Just like men sports if it’s the teams I want to see play I will watch or ANY fight with Leila Ali.
By Jack
September 19, 2005 09:43 AM | Link to this
My favorite women’s sports to watch are beach volleyball & figure skating.
By Just Being Me
September 19, 2005 09:51 AM | Link to this
THIS TOPIC SUCKS! It’s a joke, a no-brainer, a worthless non-argument!
It can all be summed up by the following three statements:
By GirlWatcher
September 19, 2005 09:51 AM | Link to this
Don’t forget the gymnasts for another women’s sport.
By Just Being Me
September 19, 2005 09:54 AM | Link to this
I’m just not that into sports at all… the only one I enjoy is baseball. Trying to get into football, but I just don’t understand it.
By Chilao
September 19, 2005 10:04 AM | Link to this
I missed the day Bush designated as the formal ‘day of prayer’, what day is it supposed to be? Would not want to miss it. I may have prayed before Katrina hit, but know it would not have done any good, would have hit the Gulf Coast anyway. In fact I know many people who were praying it would not hit the USA, and we know how that worked out.
By taboga
September 19, 2005 10:07 AM | Link to this
Aw, Brian, you hurt my feelings.
Well, I can “debate” and you just watch me:
The Religious Reich and Bush lied! How much longer are we going to take this Neo-Con crap! The Fundies want a Theocracy not a Democracy and they want to get into our bedrooms as well!
All the Neo-Cons care about is oil and Halliburton! And when are all you people going to wake up and realize that George Bush is the biggest threat to peace in the world! Bush and his Nazi conspirators are ruining our country and if it wasn’t for people like Cindy Sheehan standing up to this Religious Reich war-mongerer who stole two elections - our whole nation would be going to hell in a hand-basket!
I can too debate Brian - and my Daddy can beat-up your Daddy!
By Jack
September 19, 2005 10:09 AM | Link to this
I like gymnastics but the gymnists are too young to look at the way I look at the other aforementioned athletes.
By Tim
September 19, 2005 10:12 AM | Link to this
This is a dumb topic… I don’t see too many Christian groups out there putting requirements on those who they help… and if they do then so be it… that is their right… I would not agree with it but if they want to then they can
Renee… Leila is a hottie!
By Tim
September 19, 2005 10:16 AM | Link to this
I like gymnastics… the guys aren’t too young to look at in that way! :)
By Renee
September 19, 2005 10:21 AM | Link to this
Yes she is!
By taboga
September 19, 2005 10:25 AM | Link to this
Tim,
Next week’s topic will be about “Peanut Butter and Jelly Sandwiches”.
No doubt you’ll find a way to bring your Gayness into it…
By Tim
September 19, 2005 10:30 AM | Link to this
Grape Jelly is purple and purple triangles are a gay symbol… GOOOOOO GAYS!!!!!!!!
By Scalia
September 19, 2005 10:31 AM | Link to this
I agree Leila is a hottie.
Women’s tennis is way more interesting than men’s tennis, maybe because of Serena and her badukaduke. And Anna Kornikova was hot when she played.
I have to admit that Agassi coming back and beating my lovely James Blake was historical.
By Tim
September 19, 2005 10:33 AM | Link to this
Jack was talking about checking out female athletes… why is it ok for him to bring in his straightness
By Jack
September 19, 2005 10:38 AM | Link to this
Don’t bite. He’ll be reeling you in.
By Tim
September 19, 2005 10:38 AM | Link to this
Scalia… I think womens tennis is much more interesting to watch too… I think it may be because the points tend to last longer… Serena’s bandunkadunk doesn’t hurt either
By Tim
September 19, 2005 10:40 AM | Link to this
ok… no more biting
By Just Being Me
September 19, 2005 10:59 AM | Link to this
Tim, not to mention all the opportunities in Peanut Butter LOL!
By Scalia
September 19, 2005 11:02 AM | Link to this
Peanut butter? Hahahaha!!! That’s hilarious.
By Jack
September 19, 2005 11:04 AM | Link to this
Jelly is more fun to lick off.
By Renee
September 19, 2005 11:07 AM | Link to this
lol tim, justbeingme
By Grosserouter
September 19, 2005 11:09 AM | Link to this
Trust that peanut butter is just licked in the front?
By Dusty
September 19, 2005 11:18 AM | Link to this
Well, we covered that sorry topic and it is only 11 o’clock on Monday morning. So off we go into the wild blue yonder.
Now, Archie, why should I watch women’s sports? I’ll be watching the Braves right through the day they win the World Series. I don’t watch cooking shows either. Do you?
Now, folks! This blog would be dull as dishwater without Taboga and you know it. How ever would you vent all your frustrations without him. Now, say something nice and let us see what happens. Maybe I will sign off ‘til next week and a good topic. I can dream, can’t I?
By buildingbridges
September 19, 2005 11:21 AM | Link to this
Good monday everyone!!
This topic is useless and I’m not EVEN going to bother with an answer.
I love men’s sports I suppose because I love men. (mmm..baseball, tight pants, nice) I don’t care to watch violent women’s sports just because…well I just don’t care to. It doesn’t have anything to do with it being women, they can do what they want and some are pretty darn good and could go up against men’s teams anyday, I’m just very traditional and those aren’t “traditional” sports in my opinion, it just doesn’t interest me. I like figure skating though, it’s so creative and graceful (men or women).
PB&J IS THE BEST!! :) Strawberry jelly though.
By Bobby
September 19, 2005 11:32 AM | Link to this
My Church, Golden Central Baptist Church in Golden, Ms, I live in Belmont just 3 miles from Golden. My church took a love offering and got $14000+ dollars. Another church near here Gave $3000. We sent a trailer load of most everything imaginable down there. There were no strings attached.We are also sponsoring a family of 8 from LA. A member has a real nice house she donated for their use as long as they need it. Donated items furnished the house competely. We didn’t ask if these people were Christians. We will invite them to church and if they respond fine. We have helped families before and they didn’t come to church. The person that said that the prayers said before Katrina struck didn’t help. How do you know that? It dropped from a 5 to a 4 before it struck. Could it have been because of the prayers? Could be.Wonder how many on this forum donated money or goods?
By buildingbridges
September 19, 2005 11:43 AM | Link to this
Bobby - that’s great that your church (along with MANY MANY more) are so giving and helpful.
In response to “Wonder how many on this forum donated money or goods?”… Not all of us are as blessed. I struggle myself just to keep a roof overhead and food in the mouth. Fresh out of college I don’t have mom and dad helping me anymore. All I can offer is my prayers. I have given canned food for pets because I had some on hand after my cat died last week. I guess I didn’t appreciate the condensending tone of that question. A lot of people have given. The point of giving is to be selfless…when boasting about it and informing everyone, that’s not selfless..that’s selfISH. Asking others to “prove” their worth isn’t christianlike either..
By taboga
September 19, 2005 11:48 AM | Link to this
Bobby,
Are you kidding? Most folks out here don’t have the time to donate anything - they’re too busy telling everyone else what they should do and how they should do it.
And then applauding themselves for all their compassion…
By KatrinaGiver
September 19, 2005 11:52 AM | Link to this
More people on this forum probably donated time, goods and money then need to justify it to anyone but themselves.
After all, if you have to brag about your charity, it is hardly charity.
By taboga
September 19, 2005 11:55 AM | Link to this
For those of you who take heart medicine, you might want to double your dose…
Does anyone know how much the Jewish organizations have contributed or helped in the Katrina aftermath…?
If your heart is racing, don’t blame me - I warned you.
By Just Being Me
September 19, 2005 11:59 AM | Link to this
Actually, Jesus said in St. Matthew (I think Chapter 6) to do your good deeds in secret and that God would reward you openly. Christians should NEVER brag about doing good deeds.
Bet we’d be a lot more humble if we kept records of our shortcomings the way we keep records of our “good deeds.”
By Archie
September 19, 2005 12:04 PM | Link to this
Thanks to the women and others for responding. I expected to get bashed but I didn’t. I asked about the WNBA because they have the finals going on right now and they are on espn2 and not the primary network and I asked about women’s boxing because I would like to see more of it but I don’t hear women pumping it up. I,too, like Laila Ali. This is a woman to woman forum so I am trying to understand with all the emphasis on equality why don’t women support those sports mentioned in greater numbers. Any response is good as I am just to understand some things. I have heard some women say they don’t like the quality of play in the WNBA but is quality more important than equality.
By Just Being Me
September 19, 2005 12:06 PM | Link to this
Well if you’re going to give a running total of one religion, please - by all means - list the contributions to-date of all the major religions so that we can compare and contrast… and then critique those who didn’t give as much as the next.
By Jack
September 19, 2005 12:25 PM | Link to this
I like the WNBA better than the NBA because it takes more skill to score without dunking the ball. They know how to pass and shoot from the outside.
By lozen
September 19, 2005 12:39 PM | Link to this
Just Being Me, nothing else needs to be said about this topic after your post.
THIS TOPIC SUCKS! It’s a joke, a no-brainer, a worthless non-argument! It can all be summed up by the following three statements: Aid should be given without strings. If religious groups want to give aid with strings, it’s wrong, but it’s their right. Religious groups who give aid with strings shouldn’t use government funds to do so.
By Tony
September 19, 2005 12:44 PM | Link to this
I shook my head in disbelief. This couldn’t be the right place. After all, I couldn’t possibly be welcome here. I had been given an invitation several times, by several different people, and had finally decided to see what this place was all about. But, this just couldn’t be the right place. Quickly, I glanced down at the invitation that clutched in my hand. I scanned past the words, “Come as you are. No jacket required,” and found the location.
Yes, I was at the right place. I peered through the window again and saw a room of people whose faces seemed to glow with joy. All were neatly dressed, adorned in fine garments and appeared strangely clean as they dined at this exquisite restaurant. Ashamed, I looked down at my own tattered and torn clothing, covered in stains. I was dirty, in fact, filthy.
A foul smell seemed to consume me and I couldn’t shake the grime that clung to my body. As I turned around to leave, the words from the invitation seemed to leap out at me, “Come as you are. No jacket required.”
I decided to give it a shot. Mustering up every bit of courage I could find, I opened the door to this restaurant and walked up to a man standing behind a podium.
“Your name, sir?” he asked me with a smile.
“Daniel F. Renken,” I mumbled without looking up. I thrust my hands deep into my pockets, hoping to conceal their stains.
He didn’t seem to notice the filth that I was covered in and he continued, “Very good, sir. A table is reserved in your name. Would you like to be seated?”
I couldn’t believe what I heard! A grin broke out on my face and I said, “Yes, of course! “He lead me to a table and, sure enough, there was a placard with my name written on it in a deep, dark red.
As I browsed over a menu, I saw many delightful items listed. There were things like, “peace,” “joy,” “blessings,” “confidence,” “assurance,” “hope,” “love,” “faith,” and “mercy.” I realized that this was no ordinary restaurant! I flipped the menu back to the front in order to see where I was at. “God’s Grace,” was the name of this place!
The man returned and said, “I recommend the ‘Special of the Day’.” With it, you are entitled to heaping portions of everything on this menu.”
You’ve got to be kidding! I thought to myself. You mean, I can have ALL of this!
“What is the ‘Special of the Day,’ I asked with excitement ringing in my voice.
“Salvation,” was his reply.
“I’ll take it,” I practically cried out. Then, as quickly as I made that statement, the joy left my body. A sick, painful ache jerked through my stomach and tears filled my eyes. Between my sobs I said, “Mister, look at me. I’m dirty and nasty. I’m unclean and unworthy of such things. I’d love to have all of this, but, I Just can’t afford it.”
Undaunted, the man smiled again. “Sir, your check has already been taken care of by that Gentleman over there,” he said pointing to the front of the room. “His Name is Jesus.”
Turning, I saw a man whose very presence seemed to light the room. He was almost too much to look at. I found myself walking towards Him and in shaking voice I whispered, “Sir, I’ll wash the dishes or sweep the floors or take out the trash. I’ll do anything I can do to repay you for all of this.”
He opened His arms and said with a smile, “Son, all of this is yours if you just come unto Me. Ask Me to clean you up and I will. Ask Me to take away the stains and it is done. Ask Me to allow you to feast at My table and you will eat. Remember, the table is reserved in your name. All you must do is accept this gift that I offer you.”
Astonished, I fell at His feet and said, “Please, Jesus. Please clean up my life. Please change me and seat me at Your table and give me this new life.” Immediately, I heard the words, “It is finished.” I looked down and white robes adorned my squeaky clean body. Something strange and wonderful had happened. I felt new, like a weight had been lifted, and I found myself seated at His table.
“The ‘Special of the Day’ has been served,” the Lord said to me. “Salvation is yours.”
We sat and talked for a great while and I so enjoyed the time that I spent with Him. He told me, me of all people, that He would like me to come back as often as I liked for another helping from God’s Grace. He made it clear that He wanted me to spend as much time with Him as possible.
As it drew near time for me to go back outside into the “real world,” He whispered to me softly, “And Daniel, I am with you always.” And then, He said something to me that I will never forget. He said, “My child, Do you see these empty tables throughout this room?”
“Yes, Lord. I see them. What do they mean?” I replied.
“These are reserved tables, but the individuals whose names are on each placards have not accepted their invitations to dine. Would you be so kind as to hand out these invitations to those who have not joined us yet?” Jesus asked.
“Of course,” I said with excitement as I picked up the invitations.
“Go ye therefore into all nations,” He said as I turned to leave.
I walked into God’s Grace dirty and hungry. Stained in sin. My righteousness as filthy rags. And Jesus cleaned me up. I walked out a brand new man… robed in white, His righteousness. And so, I’ll keep my promise to my Lord. I’ll go.
I’ll spread the Word.
I’ll share the Gospel …
I’ll hand out the invitations.
And I’ll start with you. Have you been to God’s Grace? There’s a table reserved in your name, and here’s your invitation … “Come as you are. No jacket required.”
By Joker
September 19, 2005 12:51 PM | Link to this
Well, at least Tony’s post wasn’t part of an aid package.
By deedo
September 19, 2005 12:51 PM | Link to this
Since we’re talking about women’s sports, which sport is most likely to have the best woman beating the best man? There are a few that are getting close.
By Sheila
September 19, 2005 12:56 PM | Link to this
Gil Gibson:
You are an absolute moron. When you make statements like “Ever hear of Islam, Diane? Their call is “convert or we’ll kill you.â€? - You obviously have not done your homework. There are Islamic extremist groups that may have that philosophy, but there are Christian extremist groups that do the same. Need I remind you of Timothy McVeigh?!?!
Next time you make statements like that - do your homework!
By Craig
September 19, 2005 01:06 PM | Link to this
OK…I feel qualified to comment. I just returned from Louisiana where I went with a church based relief group. I’m not a preacher, an evangelist, a “thumper”, but just someone who wanted to help. We raised over $100,000 for Katrina relief and delivered a load of clothing, food, water, diapers, and other needed supplies and spent the rest of our time working in the disaster area. I don’t recall us asking anyone their religious affiliation when they wanted anything. We also had Bibles for those who asked for them. (Actually, they were one of the most requested items…) We were from a predominately white Methodist church and ended up helping Methodist-Americans, Baptist-Americans, African-Americans and just PLAIN OLD “I NEED SOME HELP” AMERICANS! If a foreign born purple striped devil worshipping homosexual had needed anything we had brought they would have gotten it also. Compassion and caring should be universal…..
By Joker
September 19, 2005 01:06 PM | Link to this
Who Wants to Be a Millionaire? by Anonymous
Someone knocked at my door. I answered it to find a well-groomed, nicely dressed couple.
The man spoke first. “Hi! I’m John, and this is Mary.”
Mary said: “Hi! We’re here to invite you to come kiss Joshua’s a*.”
Me: “Pardon me? What are you talking about? Who’s Joshua, and why would I want to kiss his a*?”
John: “If you kiss Joshua’s a*, he’ll give you a million dollars; and if you don’t, he’ll kick the sh!t out of you.”
Me: “What? Is this some sort of bizarre mob shake-down?”
John: “Joshua is a billionaire philanthropist. Joshua built this town. Joshua owns this town. He can do whatever he wants, and what he wants is to give you a million dollars, but he can’t until you kiss his a*.”
Me: “That doesn’t make any sense. Why…?”
Mary: “Who are you to question Joshua’s gift? Don’t you want a million dollars? Isn’t it worth a little kiss on the a*?”
Me: “Well maybe, if it’s legit, but…”
John: “Then come kiss Joshua’s a* with us.”
Me: “Do you kiss Joshua’s butt often?”
Mary: “Oh yes, all the time…”
Me: “And has he given you a million dollars?”
John: “Well no, you don’t actually get the money until you leave town.”
Me: “So why don’t you just leave town now?”
Mary: “You can’t leave until Joshua tells you to, or you don’t get the money, and he kicks the sh!t out of you.”
Me: “Do you know anyone who kissed Joshua’s butt, left town, and got the million dollars?”
John: “My mother kissed Joshua’s butt for years. She left town last year, and I’m sure she got the money.”
Me: “Haven’t you talked to her since then?”
John: “Of course not, Joshua doesn’t allow it.”
Me: “So what makes you think he’ll actually give you the money if you’ve never talked to anyone who got the money?”
Mary: “Well, he gives you a little bit before you leave. Maybe you’ll get a raise, maybe you’ll win a small lotto, maybe you’ll just find a twenty dollar bill on the street.”
Me: “What’s that got to do with Joshua?”
John: “Joshua has certain connections.’”
Me: “I’m sorry, but this sounds like some sort of freakish con game.”
John: “But it’s a million dollars, can you really take the chance? And remember, if you don’t kiss Joshua’s butt he’ll kick the sh!t of you.”
Me: “Maybe if I could see Joshua, talk to him, get the details straight from him…”
Mary: “No one sees Joshua, no one talks to Joshua,,, Directly.”
Me: “Then how do you kiss his butt?”
John: “Sometimes we just blow him a kiss, and think of his butt. Other times we kiss Karl’s butt, and he pbuttes it on.”
Me: “Who’s Karl?”
Mary: “A friend of ours. He’s Joshua’s representative. He is the one who taught us all about kissing Joshua’s butt. All we had to do was take him out to dinner a few times.”
Me: “And you just took his word for it when he said there was a Joshua, that Joshua wanted you to kiss his butt, and that Joshua would reward you?”
John: “Oh no! Karl’s got a letter Joshua sent him years ago explaining the whole thing. Here’s a copy; see for yourself.”
John handed me a photocopy of a handwritten memo on “From the desk of Karl” letterhead. It listed eleven items:
Me: “This appears to be written on Karl’s letterhead.”
Mary: “Joshua used his paper.”
Me: “I have a hunch that if we checked we’d find this is Karl’s handwriting.”
John: “Of course, Joshua dictated it.”
Me: “I thought you said no one gets to see Joshua?”
Mary: “Not now, but years ago he would talk to some people.”
Me: “I thought you said he was philanthropist. What sort of philanthropist kicks the sh!t out of people just because they’re different?”
Mary: “It’s what Joshua wants, and Joshua’s always right.”
Me: “How do you figure that?”
Mary: “Item 7 says ‘Everything Joshua says is right.’ That’s good enough for me!”
Me: “Maybe your friend Karl just made the whole thing up.”
John: “No way! Item 5 says ‘Joshua dictated this list himself.’ Besides, item 2 says ‘Use alcohol in moderation,’ Item 4 says ‘Eat right,’ and item 8 says ‘Wash your hands after going to the bathroom.’ Everyone knows those things are right, so the rest must be true, too.”
Me: “But 9 says: ‘Don’t Drink,’ which doesn’t quite go with item 2. And 6 says ‘The moon is made of green cheese,’ which is just plain wrong.”
John: “There’s no contradiction between 9 and 2, 9 just clarifies 2. As far as 6 goes, you’ve never been to the moon, so you can’t say for sure.”
Me: “Scientists have pretty firmly established that the moon is made of rock…”
Mary: “But they don’t know if the rock came from the Earth, or fromout of space, so it could just as easily be green cheese.”
Me: “I’m not really an expert, but I think the theory that the Moon came from the Earth has been discounted. Besides, not knowing where the rock came from doesn’t make it cheese.”
John: “Aha! You just admitted that scientists make mistakes, but we know Joshua is always right!”
Me: “We do?”
Mary: “Of course we do, Item 5 says so.”
Me: “You’re saying Joshua’s always right because the list says so. The list is right because Joshua dictated it. And we know that Joshua dictated it because the list says so. That’s circular logic, no different than saying ‘Joshua’s right because he says he’s right.’”
John: “Now you’re getting it! It’s so rewarding to see someone come around to Joshua’s way of thinking.”
Me: “But…oh, never mind. What’s the deal with wieners?”
Mary blushed.
John: “Wieners, in buns. No condiments. It’s Joshua’s way. Anything else is wrong.”
Me: “What if I don’t have a bun?”
John: “No bun, no wiener. A wiener without a bun is wrong.”
Me: “No relish? No Mustard?”
Mary looked positively stricken.
John (raising his voice): “There’s no need for such language! Condiments of any kind are wrong!”
Me: “So a big pile of sauerkraut — with some wieners chopped up in it would be out of the question?”
Mary put her fingers in her ears: “I am not listening to this. La la, la la, la la la.”
John: “That’s disgusting. Only some sort of evil deviant would eat that…”
Me: “It’s good! I eat it all the time.”
Mary fainted. John caught her.
John: “Well, if I’d known you were one of those I wouldn’t have wasted my time. When Joshua kicks the sh!t out of you I’ll be there, counting my money and laughing. … I’ll kiss Joshua’s butt for you, you … you bunless cut-wienered kraut-eater!”
With this, John dragged Mary to their waiting car, and sped off.
By Jack
September 19, 2005 01:07 PM | Link to this
Name one Deedo.
By lozen
September 19, 2005 01:09 PM | Link to this
You don’t hear about atheists helping in disasters because we do it on an individual basis or as part of some other organization. There really isn’t a humanist, agnostic, or atheist church, no matter how much some like to promote the idea that those philosophies about life are religions.
By Argy
September 19, 2005 01:10 PM | Link to this
Since we’re talking about women’s sports, which sport is most likely to have the best woman beating the best man? There are a few that are getting close.
Well, bowling and billiards might be a couple to name. And of course many of the traditional women’s sports (ladies style gymnastics, synchronized swimming, etc).
And Tony, The dude should’ve bought peace for everyone instead of the single order of salvation. Or the ribs.
By Sheila
September 19, 2005 01:14 PM | Link to this
Craig,
I could not have said it better! We need more people like you!
By Just Being Me
September 19, 2005 01:15 PM | Link to this
LOL Joker
By buildingbridges
September 19, 2005 01:19 PM | Link to this
deedo - I think that if rules were combined to satisfy all, I think that basketball could easily be a close match between men and women. With the height difference I do think there would need to be some rules accordingly, like dunking as someone else mentioned earlier. I also think women could take men for a run in baseball, but they give us that wimpy big ball and underhanded pitching… =P
By Craig
September 19, 2005 01:19 PM | Link to this
Joker….We’d have given you a wiener also. With or without condiments. No posterior kissing required. :)
By FatMoose
September 19, 2005 01:43 PM | Link to this
Re: the topic: religion without strings - Solicitating religion in a snake kind of way
So I took my nephews to see Tony Hawk in Athens on Sunday. After the demo, one of them show me a booklet that says on the front: Are you a genius? Test your memory and see! …along with a image of einstien on the cover.
Well the contents were how to memorize the ten commandments, and all in a manner as if it was not religion it was refering to. Plus, the ending explain that you are far from a genius if you choose damnation instead of memorizing ten easy elements and following them.
All five kids, were respectfull and curious about christianity at an early age; but after years of that low brow “trick you into being religious” crap (in and out of church) - I have the job of explaining that all christians are not like that, although they argue back that these types of messages are EVERYWHERE! And they ARE correct - the demeaning tricks are everywhere.
It is the same reason they all stopped going to church and youth group (which IMO they shoud be called youth gropes - as much ill activity that goes on!).
So do not tell me that this perception of untrust towards religous groups is some adult athiest only adgenda - most of us that are sceptical of any action a religous group makes is founded on valid experiences, and ones could be considered attempts to coerse/trick us as kids, which is sick.
All this is coming FROM a christian - and one who is continually trying to undo the damage religion does to the christian faith.
By Jack
September 19, 2005 01:55 PM | Link to this
What about the bun?
By Scalia
September 19, 2005 01:56 PM | Link to this
You have to put a dry weiner in the bun.
By taboga
September 19, 2005 01:58 PM | Link to this
All this is coming FROM a christian - and one who is continually trying to undo the damage religion does to the christian faith.
Well, you go boy - take the bull by the horns!
By Jack
September 19, 2005 02:04 PM | Link to this
Scalia. Several good responses to your post comes to mind and it could turn into a very interesting conversation but it may offend big brother so I’ll let it go at that.
By FatMoose
September 19, 2005 02:05 PM | Link to this
Tab,
Well, you go boy - take the bull by the horns!
Did I not just say that I have? If you need me to explain what I wrote, just ask and I will - as I have each time.
I have enough patience to help you if you so wish.
By lozen
September 19, 2005 02:07 PM | Link to this
It is impossible for christianity, or islam to be religions without strings. The bottom line of both is that their god is the only true god. They are perfect examples of religious totalitarianism. It is a very important part of the beliefs of christianity that one must proselytize and “save souls” to be a good christian. (I don’t know about Islams and conversion). The Jews, god’s chosen people, escape that by being inclusive by birth. You are a jew if your mother is a jew. Of course, you can convert to Judaism, but there’s no proselytizing as with christianity. I just read a book about the time when christian monks came to Ireland and the people converted. The monks knew better ways to plant crops and grow food. The people up until then often starved to death because their crops failed. So the people gave up their druid gods and accepted the christian god of the monks. If you’re starving, just as you said, Jack, you’ll way thank you to Allah, Shiva, Zeus or whoever!
By Thoughts
September 19, 2005 02:16 PM | Link to this
Amazing how many religious conversions in the past have been essentially economic.
By lozen
September 19, 2005 02:19 PM | Link to this
Joker, ROTFL at your post. But Joker, if I believe that I’ll get a million dollars when I leave town and I kiss Joshua’s butt and then there is no million, what have I lost? If you don’t believe and there is a million and you don’t kiss Joshua’s butt, you’ve lost your million dollars to get set up in another town!
By Jack
September 19, 2005 02:26 PM | Link to this
Is the bun also dry?
By Netbanker
September 19, 2005 02:29 PM | Link to this
“foreign born purple striped devil worshipping homosexual” OK…that’s just wrong. Foreign born or not a homosexual who worships the devil would know to wear black and never purple stripes.
By Deedo
September 19, 2005 02:34 PM | Link to this
Probably where women are coming the closest to competing with men is in track and field and marathon running. The world record for the womens maration is now about 2hrs:15min which comes to around 5:10 per mile, and would beat all but three current male United States marathon runners( the men’s world record is around 2:04/4:45 per mile). The womens’ record is expected to drop to 2:10 by 2020 whereas the men’s record will only go down a minute or two more. Can women catch up? Maybe not to the records but on a good day for Paula Radcliffe (female record holder) and a bad day for whatever leading male Kenyan is entered, we could see a woman winning a major marathon such as New York.
I know nobody really cares but it’s interesting beer drinking conversation.
By taboga
September 19, 2005 02:38 PM | Link to this
Moose,
It was an exclamation not a suggestion. If you’re going to save Christianity - you need to learn the difference.
By Jack
September 19, 2005 02:39 PM | Link to this
Pretty much everything is interesting when drinking beer. :)
By joe
September 19, 2005 02:40 PM | Link to this
This blog is for talking about religion buddy, so save it on the sports stuff! Besides we can’t drink beer at work!
By Netbanker
September 19, 2005 02:41 PM | Link to this
Actually Golf would probably be closer than running. Between Ms. Sorenson and…shoot, I just blanked on the 14 y.o. Asian girl’s name…what’s-her-name they’re getting close to the men’s game. Golf is more about form than pure strength or endurance.
By buildingbridges
September 19, 2005 02:41 PM | Link to this
Deedo - OOhh.. I was thinking you meant more of the traditional “male” sports, hockey, football, baseball, basketball, etc. I’ve always thought of field and track as unisex because I ran in HS against boys so it didn’t occur to me to seperate it. - sorry, misunderstood earlier. :)
By RF
September 19, 2005 02:43 PM | Link to this
Net—couldn’t he wear a little purple for accent? I mean, he worships the devil, but does he HAVE to be so boringly monochromatic? You guys are a hoot today!
By Just Being Me
September 19, 2005 02:45 PM | Link to this
LOL Netbanker
By buildingbridges
September 19, 2005 02:46 PM | Link to this
Hey it’s 5 o’clock somewhere! I’ll drink to that! :)
By FatMoose
September 19, 2005 02:49 PM | Link to this
Tab, I know the difference. Watch/listen and learn:
The point (obviously need clarification again? Just ask, it is easier on both of us) is that you made the same exclamation that I made.
Therefore your comment is redundant - again. You infuse either reduntant crap in someones post to start bs, or add text to their point - see below if I lost you again.
Can you point me to where I said I was out to SAVE christianity? Seeing as you are adding a point as if it was a given; but the fact is you are adding to/altering what I said.
Why would you add such a stupid statement to my post one asks?
BC that way you have a point to ridicule; yet it was your addition - not mine. So, go make fun of yourself.
M’kay? (or is still more you need assistance with? I have the time to kick it around a little longer)
By Jack
September 19, 2005 02:54 PM | Link to this
Hey Net, Annika couldn’t make the cut when she tried at the Colonial. Michelle Wie can drive far but it will be a long time before they can compete with the men. Fun to watch though, especially when they pick up the ball.
By Jack
September 19, 2005 02:57 PM | Link to this
I hear Fatmoose being reeled in. Go Tab. (the fishing was better when everyone thought you were stupid wasn’t it?)
By Irritated
September 19, 2005 03:09 PM | Link to this
Tony, AAAHHHH How sweet…..but what does that have to do with anything? Everybody who believes in GOD does not believe in Jesus. So to prove the point that is being made, SOME Christians do have a hard time with providing assistance without trying to convert or “save” someone.
By taboga
September 19, 2005 03:17 PM | Link to this
Moose,
You do a terrible job at pretending to be intelligent. AND it’s boring.
By buildingbridges
September 19, 2005 03:18 PM | Link to this
Irritated - that’s because it’s commanded of christians to spread His word. Not all christians live that way. I don’t, I chose to witness intravertaly (sp?), not extrovertly. That’s what missionaries do, they are out to spread His gospel and to teach the bible. When a christian group sees the opportunity to witness to someone or to share the bible they will, but it’s not usually out of selfishness. (stress of the word usually). Meaning a lot (probably most) christian charities give without strings but just like everything else, there are bad apples.
By buildingbridges
September 19, 2005 03:20 PM | Link to this
Irritated - your right though….SOME do have a hard time with providing assistance without trying to convert or “saveâ€? someone.
I was actually agreeing with you just never stated it. :)
By Jack
September 19, 2005 03:25 PM | Link to this
God would frown upon those who would offer help with conditions. No doubt.
By Scalia
September 19, 2005 03:26 PM | Link to this
Jack, that’s not as much fun as watching Andy Roddick dry his face and seeing just enough of his treasure trail, getting to see him in his sweaty white shorts, or watching James Blake bend over.
By mit
September 19, 2005 03:29 PM | Link to this
so i just read the AJC article about the faith based initiative being lobbied since katrina.
Are these same people from the church wanting to give islamic mosques funding too? I mean, if the govt. is going to give christian churches money to feed the hungry are they going to include all the other religions that help communities also? They should get money too.
And where is all this money coming from? I personally don’t want my tax dollars going to a church or mosque, do ya’ll?
By Jack
September 19, 2005 03:31 PM | Link to this
Scalia. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder! :) (not sure what treasure trail is, sounds dirty) hehe
By Tim
September 19, 2005 03:37 PM | Link to this
it’s a happy trail… don’t think that is something that would float your boat
By taboga
September 19, 2005 03:39 PM | Link to this
OK.
So, what if an organization of Rock Artists offered relief and tried to persuade folks to listen to rock music?
And if General Motors were providing aid and relief and were passing out their automobile brochures?
Coca-Cola…?
…What difference does it make if religious groups make a pitch?
I mean, it’s not like they’re Al Qaeda and trying to recruit suicide murderers!
If they try to convert someone, well, couldn’t it be as simple as: Yes, no, maybe, or thanks but no thanks - and move right along?
They don’t have leprosy or cooties and they’re not the bogey-man where you have to run and hide under the covers because they invite you to church!
Goodness gracious!
By Craig
September 19, 2005 03:40 PM | Link to this
Irritated…perhaps it is because many who believe in Jesus have forgotten what Jesus was supposed to have believed in Himself. (Just as have fundamentalists of many stripes, such as a small minority of Muslims, have likewise forgotten the tenets of their faith.) IMHO, any self-professed Christian who would condition aid, kindness, comfort, food etc on the religious beliefs of the recipient is in some dire need of remedial Sunday school. Good people, and evil, can be found within any people, nation, or religion. Those (good or bad) that choose may attend a church, synagogue, mosque, or whatever but they are simply occupying space in a building. The test of any faith is how the faithful live their lives when no one is looking.
To get back onto the real subject of this blog. Aid delivered by religious groups should be acceptable PROVIDED aid is not conditional upon any “test” of the recipient other than need. Other than the military and Red Cross, the best efforts in the disaster area I witnessed were primarily from religious groups (particularly the Salvation Army, Operation Blessing, and the Baptist Church).
And regarding my earlier comment, the purple stripes were intended to be the color OF the devil worshipping homosexual in question. Their clothing I leave to the collective imagination of the group….
By Jack
September 19, 2005 03:43 PM | Link to this
Thanks Tim. I’ll have to trust you on that one!
Tab. Amen.
By buildingbridges
September 19, 2005 03:46 PM | Link to this
mmmmm - happy trails. Ya’ll have sent my mind straight to the gutter!
Mit - I would have to admit, I could see that being more productive than a lot of things that my tax dollars are going for, but excluding any one faith would not be supported by me.
By Jack
September 19, 2005 03:49 PM | Link to this
I thought the devil was “Bi”. Isn’t his motto, “If it feels good, do it.”?
By Tim
September 19, 2005 03:49 PM | Link to this
np Jack
Scalia… I would take Rafael Nadal… now that’s a cutie
By buildingbridges
September 19, 2005 03:50 PM | Link to this
to continue from this “but excluding any one faith would not be supported by me.”
which is where the problem lies so I would prefer NO tax dollars going towards it. I didn’t quite finish my thought.
By Just Being Me
September 19, 2005 03:50 PM | Link to this
CRAIG - No homosexual I know would be caught dead in purple striped skin.
By Jack
September 19, 2005 03:53 PM | Link to this
Wasn’t that a Roy Rogers song?
By Craig
September 19, 2005 03:55 PM | Link to this
BTW….to tie a couple of the thoughts in this thread together. (Aid by corporations like Coke and beer.) A good bit of the water being passed out in the disaster areas is canned by Anheuser-Busch (in Cartersville, GA) and clearly labelled as disaster aid with their logo on it. This could be the only time that Baptists are handing out free Anheuser-Busch products……
By sterling
September 19, 2005 03:58 PM | Link to this
How do you know which denomination is teaching the right things? Are you Lutheran, Episcopalian, Unitarian, Universalist, Holiness, Mormon, Presbyterian, Baptist, Southern Baptist, Methodist, Seventh Day Adventist, Catholic, Greek Orthodox, Nondenominational, AME? How do you know your church really preaches the true gospel? What’s the difference between what baptists believe and what methodists believe? Each of these groups believes they are right and all the others are wrong. How can anybody know which is truly right?
By Just Being Me
September 19, 2005 03:58 PM | Link to this
Jack - Everybody knows the devil is bi. But, that doesn’t mean he won’t let purple-striped skinned homosexuals worship him.
By FatMoose
September 19, 2005 04:02 PM | Link to this
Nice reply Tab.
Jack,
Happy with the reel in results? Seems tab could not even muster up the normal mean sarcasm - seeing as that would further prove what I posed to him.
Easy pickings.
By mit
September 19, 2005 04:02 PM | Link to this
BB,
I mean, thats alot of money. How much does a single church want? then multiply by what? 100,000+
I just don’t see a logical solution. If the money was given to the heads of the denominations how would that trickle down look like? which churches get more funding than another? by # of attendants? all the money would go to the megachurches and leave the little churches with no money.
and then you have the other religions too. its all just too much crap to deal with i think. I mean we don’t have the money now for post-katrina and now the churches want money b/c they went to help?
the churches are basically saying, bush dropped the ball and we recovered the fumble, so its time to give us some money. I think TD Jakes has more money from forced tithe than the federal govt has right now. Look at the dude’s house. he’s a preacher living like a movie star, come on. He better not get a cent in tax dollars.
By Craig