AJC.com > Opinion > Woman to Woman > Archives > 2005 > August > 18 > Entry
Should elective Bible courses be allowed in public schools?
Shaunti Feldhahn, a right-leaning columnist, writes the commentary this week and Diane Glass, a left-leaning columnist, responds.
Shaunti Feldhahn, a right-leaning columnist, writes the commentary this week and Diane Glass, a left-leaning columnist, responds.
Commentary
For years, anti-religion groups have frightened public schools into scrubbing all discussion of religion, as if freedom of religion means freedom from religion. But that teaches our kids that religion is unimportant — itself an endorsement of secular humanist beliefs.
Thankfully, reason is beginning to return. In 2000, Charles Haynes, senior scholar at the well-respected First Amendment Center, led a landmark effort to build consensus on how public schools can safely address religious topics — including the Bible. The resulting guides were distributed by the Department of Education to every public school district, and while a few non-centrist groups like the ACLU declined to sign on, many other traditional opponents did. When the National Association of Evangelicals and the People for the American Way agree on something, it’s got to be a reasonable middle ground.
And the reasonable middle here is that elective Bible courses must be allowed in public schools, so long as they are teaching about the Bible, not proselytizing.
After all, kids only sign up if they want to — which they really should. As Charles Haynes told me, “An educated person in our society really must have biblical literacy. You can’t even walk into an art museum and understand much of what you see without it. In art, music, literature, history, you’d miss a lot. Our history simply doesn’t make sense without knowledge of the bible. It is shot through many of our great American documents. Without biblical knowledge, much of that is just lost on people. But teachers are getting biblically illiterate students and are having to play catch up. It’s so easy to make an argument for biblical literacy but it’s almost embarrassing that we have to.”
As a person of faith, I was also grateful that although Haynes made a strong distinction about schools not promoting religion, he also suggested that, “A Bible elective needs to educate students about how the various traditions that use the Bible, see it. It can’t just be how the Bible appears in secular literature, but how do different religious people understand it?”
It’s about time that schools were freed from fear, and allowed to educate our kids about this ultra-important book.
Rebuttal
Shaunti positions Bible class like philosopher Thomas Paine defended deism in 1795. Her choice of the word “reason” is quite intentional. In Paine’s “The Age of Reason,” he, too, argued that the search for truth was a rational, academic exercise. The difference is — Paine thought Judeo-Christian scriptures were rife with error.
So I have to wonder: Is the appeal to “reason” a ploy to infiltrate the public school system with Bibles and wait for classroom conversions? If so, conservative Christians may be surprised by the outcome.
Studying Christianity through a secular lens will have the reverse effect. When you take a belief and dissect it in the white, hot light of debate, it’s no longer faith. It’s a discussion point.
You see, there’s a difference between a secular university education and classes at a Bible college. There’s a difference between public school and Sunday school. And it’s this difference that will take the devout by surprise when Bible classes in our public schools don’t deliver the expected conversion rate.
Faith can’t be taught as a history course; it can only be felt by the heart.
Doesn’t it seem a little hypocritical that religious conservatives rail against public school sex education classes on the grounds that sex education is the personal responsibility of the parent but support a course on a religious text, another very personal, parental decision?
Besides, we’ve already seen the crafty results of so-called secular Bible classes. And they look nothing like what Shaunti describes.
A Bible course currently taught in hundreds of schools nationwide was recently deemed “tabloid scholarship” by the Texas Freedom Network, a watch-dog group, including clergy of various faiths. These courses also violate the very caveat Shaunti’s source warns against — proselytizing.
I agree that the Bible is an important historic work. But it needn’t be studied in secondary public schools any more than the study of classical mythology, a discipline just as influential to Western thought. We don’t hear a hue and cry about missing out on Homer’s “The Odyssey”. Why? Because classical mythology courses are usually offered in college. So is theology.
That’s where the study of “ultra important books” belong — in the halls of advanced education where parents and teachers won’t be pitted against each other — where, young adults, not children, can choose.
Comments
Commenting is now closed for this entry.
By David
August 22, 2005 07:01 AM | Link to this
I’d want to ask Shaunti if she’d be okay with an atheist teaching this bible class? That should be the litmus test on this subject. I think a comparative religion class is fine, but if it’s JUST the Christian bible then it definitely should not be relegated to only a Christian teaching. I also think that any Christian hoping this will be an evangelical plus might find otherwise when the whole bible is studied in the light of day.
By taboga
August 22, 2005 07:30 AM | Link to this
I think it would be nice if we taught Mathematics in the socialism factories rather than the so-called Evolution or the Bible…
But anyway…This has to be the most ridiculous idea that Conservatives have ever come up with!
I am as Conservative as they come Shaunti, but we don’t need to be Taliban-ish here! You’re now giving credence to all these wacko Leftist claims about the Religious Right!
This cannot be more wrong.
By Lyrazel
August 22, 2005 07:50 AM | Link to this
Its imperative schools each students to read, write before you teach them holy-scripture, Shaunti. The 3 basics in schools has to be comprehended before going to the electives. Comparitive religious study can be an informative view of other people in other worlds can even inspire interests like language, sociiology, history, geography in students. However, its t** for tat. You have to open the same public school to other religious text studies and you still shouldnt make everyone pray or put religious insignia around the entire school. Why not live in a world that embraces differences instead of a hostile my-way-or-highway approach. Problem is with most public schools just concentrating on teaching the test—who gets funding for elective courses? Languuage is at an all time low, as are Art and Music…Which schools get funding for such extravagant course work…why religious schools only…No Child Left Behind has almost killed incentive to learn and teach…
By Bruce
August 22, 2005 07:52 AM | Link to this
Although I do see the disadvantages of teaching ANY religion in public schools I can also see some advantages for using the Bible as information.
I think it would make for a better understanding of various historical events that are being taught. Events like The Crusades for one. How can anyone have a firm understanding of why this event happened unless everything assoicated with that event is presented. To me there is a big difference between teaching faith and using the Bible as a means to better understand historical events.
It doesn’t matter if you believe the Bible to be true or not. What does matter is that the Bible has been an important part of many historical events and thus anyone studying these events should have access to any and all information involved in that event.
By taboga
August 22, 2005 08:09 AM | Link to this
Where did the obsession with “school” originate?
Many people act as if all that can be learned, must be learned in “school”.
I just wish we didn’t hate the children so much. Maybe if we didn’t hate them so much, we wouldn’t be trying to dump every societal issue that the majority of adults have convoluted beyond recognition - right into their laps!
Are any of you Scuba Divers? Ever been in deep murky water where you didn’t know which way was up or down, left or right?
That must be how many of our kids feel with all this crap that we continually dump on them.
By Mark
August 22, 2005 08:16 AM | Link to this
The group publishing the material NEVER intended the class to be used as a conversion tool. Their material is also biblically correct.
By Bean
August 22, 2005 08:24 AM | Link to this
I went to school in Turkey, and we did have a religion class and it wasn’t elective. However, they would teach about all religions (including Budizm, Christianity, etc.) but then again the main religion information would be of Islam. Now Turkey is a very modern country where most people are Muslim, and we wear regular clothes and no we don’t ride camels! :) So I really didn’t want anyone to be teaching me about any religion, i wanted to find out myself. Even though they try to make it about “all” religions it always comes down to the majority religion in one’s country, and having tried this system, i believe it’s wrong to impose any religious ideas on young brains!
By taboga
August 22, 2005 08:35 AM | Link to this
What if a group of people got together and called themselves: The Hooskeroos — and came up with a bunch of political and social ideas. Would their ideas be welcomed at the table of debate - or should they be rejected?
By kt1066
August 22, 2005 08:39 AM | Link to this
My Cobb County high school offered a “Bible as Literature” elective, and it was quite interesting. We just examined different parts as poetry, novel, short story, etc. The teacher was careful to explain that we weren’t there to argue about religious issues, but to gain appreciation for the writing, just as with any other literature. My faith was not assaulted, nor was the wall of separation between church & state. Comparative religion, if taught with the goal of gaining an understanding of other beliefs, not with pointing out how they’re “wrong,” would be a good class too, but the theocrats would likely freak out if teenagers were required to read some of the Koran or the Bhagavad Gita.
By Jack
August 22, 2005 08:41 AM | Link to this
As if the ACLU would allow that!
By Boscoe
August 22, 2005 08:43 AM | Link to this
Angie- PERPETUAL VIRGINITY â€â€? Mary was a virgin before, during and after the birth of Christ. (“Catechismâ€? 496-511) Matthew 1:24-25 says, “Then Joseph being raised from sleep did as the angel of the Lord had bidden him, and took unto him his wife: And knew her not till she had brought forth her firstborn son: and he called his name JESUS.â€? “Tillâ€? (until) means that after that point, Joseph did “knowâ€? (have sexual relations with) Mary. Till she brought forth her firstborn son… From these words heretics most impiously inferred that the blessed Virgin Mary had other children besides Christ; but St. Jerome shews, by divers examples, that this expression of the Evangelist was a manner of speaking usual among the Hebrews, to denote by the word until, only what is done, without any regard to the future. Thus it is said, Genesis 8. 6 and 7, that Noe sent forth a raven, which went forth, and did not return till the waters were dried up on the earth. That is, did not return any more. Also Isaias 46. 4, God says: I am till you grow old. Who dare infer that God should then cease to be when one grows old: Also in the first book of Machabees 5. 54, And they went up to mount Sion with joy and gladness, and offered holocausts, because not one of them was slain till they had returned in peace. That is, not one was slain before or after they had returned. God saith to his divine Son: Sit on my right hand till I make thy enemies thy footstool. Shall he sit no longer after his enemies are subdued? HELLO, I think he will and for all eternity. In Deuteronomy 34:6. And he buried him in the valley of the land of Moab over against Phogor: and no man hath known of his sepulchre until this present day. . Have they found moses’ grave? The answer is decidedly NO! St. Jerome also proves by Scripture examples, that an only begotten son, was also called firstborn, or first begotten: because according to the law, the firstborn males were to be consecrated to God; Sanctify unto me, saith the Lord, every firstborn that openeth the womb among the children of Israel, etc. Ex. 13. 2.
By Boscoe
August 22, 2005 08:45 AM | Link to this
ANGIE-There is no biblical reference to the assumption of Mary. The Gospel of John was written around 90 A.D., which is more than 100 years after Mary was born. (Surely Mary was more than ten years old when Jesus was conceived.) If Mary had been supernaturally assumed into Heaven, wouldn’t John (the disciple that Mary lived with) have mentioned it? When Enoch and Elijah were taken up to Heaven, the Bible recorded it. With Elijah it was recorded in some detail. (See Genesis 6:24 and 2 Kings 2:1-18.) Show me where the bible says all truth must be contained therein.
By Boscoe
August 22, 2005 08:47 AM | Link to this
AND ANGIE AGAIN - The Assumption of Mary was officially declared to be a dogma of the Roman Catholic faith in 1950. This means that every Roman Catholic is required to believe this doctrine without questioning it. However, as we will see, the teaching of the Assumption originated with heretical writings which were officially condemned by the early Church. In 495 A.D., Pope Gelasius issued a decree (And which one is that?) which rejected this teaching as heresy and its proponents as heretics. In the sixth century, Pope Hormisdas also condemned as heretics those authors who taught the doctrine of the Assumption of Mary. (Sorry, but there is no Pope Hormisdas.) The early Church clearly considered the doctrine of the Assumption of Mary to be a heresy worthy of condemnation. Here we have “infallibleâ€? popes declaring something to be a heresy. Then in 1950, Pope Pius XII, another “infallibleâ€? pope, declared it to be official Roman Catholic doctrine. That simply is just not true Angie. The belief in the corporeal assumption of Mary is founded on the apocryphal treatise De Obitu S. Dominae, bearing the name of St. John, which belongs however to the fourth or fifth century. It is also found in the book De Transitu Virginis, falsely ascribed to St. Melito of Sardis, and in a spurious letter attributed to St. Denis the Areopagite. If we consult genuine writings in the East, it is mentioned in the sermons of St. Andrew of Crete, St. John Damascene, St. Modestus of Jerusalem and others. In the West, St. Gregory of Tours (De gloria mart., I, iv) mentions it first. The sermons of St. Jerome and St. Augustine for this feast, however, are spurious. St. John of Damascus (P. G., I, 96) thus formulates the tradition of the Church of Jerusalem: St. Juvenal, Bishop of Jerusalem, at the Council of Chalcedon (451), made known to the Emperor Marcian and Pulcheria, who wished to possess the body of the Mother of God, that Mary died in the presence of all the Apostles, but that her tomb, when opened, upon the request of St. Thomas, was found empty; wherefrom the Apostles concluded that the body was taken up to heaven. No one will suspect the early Christians of idolatry, as if they had paid supreme worship to Mary’s pictures or name; but how are we to explain the phenomena enumerated, unless we suppose that the early Christians venerated Mary in a special way? Nor can this veneration be said to be a corruption introduced in later times. It has been seen that the earliest picture dates from the beginning of the second century, so that within the first fifty years after the death of St. John the veneration of Mary is proved to have flourished in the Church of Rome.
By SnottyNozeBrat
August 22, 2005 08:49 AM | Link to this
Gee, you can pick up a book about ALL KINDS of topics at school. Why is it that there is such a POWERFUL need from some people to censor THAT book?
if you crack the cover you’ll find that the book says you’ve been created with a freewill, the RIGHT to choose. You will not find that many other religious books.
Is your fear of the book driven by some other modern idealogy? One that also denies the rights of man? Such as to read or study this book?
By Boscoe
August 22, 2005 08:49 AM | Link to this
ANGIE - CO-MEDIATOR â€â€? Mary is the Co-Mediator to whom we can entrust all our cares and petitions. (“Catechismâ€? 968-970, 2677)There is only one mediator and that is Jesus. 1 Timothy 2:5-6 says, “For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus: Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.â€? Hebrews 7:25 says,Wherefore he [Jesus] is able to save them to the uttermost that come unto God by him, seeing he ever liveth to make intercession for them.â€? Ephesians 3:12 says, “In whom [Jesus} we have boldness and access with confidence by the faith of him.â€? The office of mediator belongs fully only to Jesus, the Man God, Who alone could reconcile us with God by offering Him, on behalf of men, the infinite sacrifice of the Cross, which is perpetuated in Holy Mass. He alone, as Head of mankind, could merit for us in justice the grace of salvation and apply it to those who do not reject His saving action. It is as man that He is mediator, but as a Man in Whom humanity is united hypostatically to the Word and endowed with the fullness of grace, the grace of Headship, which overflows on men. As St. Paul puts it: ‘For there is one God, and one mediator of God and men, the man Christ Jesus: Who gave Himself for a redemption for all, a testimony in due times’ (I Tim. ii, 56). St. Thomas adds: ‘there is no reason why there should not be, after Christ, other secondary mediators between God and men, who co operate in uniting them in a ministerial and dispositive manner.’ Such mediators dispose men for the action of the principal Mediator, or transmit it, but always in dependence on His merits. Apparently, the first use of the title Mediatrix as applying to Our Lady was used by St. Ephraem (373): “I call upon you, Mediatrix of the world; I invoke your prompt protection in my necessities.” In his fourth sermon on Our Lady, he calls her “dispensatrix of all gifts… Mediatrix of the whole world.â€? A Father of the Council of Ephesus, Antipater of Bostra, wrote, “Hail, you who acceptably intercede as a Mediatrix for mankind.” (In S. Joannem Bapt., PG, 1772C) . St. Andrew of Crete (660-740) referred to Mary as the “Mediatrix of the law and graceâ€? and that “she is the mediation between the sublimity of God and the abjection of the flesh.â€?
By Boscoe
August 22, 2005 08:50 AM | Link to this
HELLO ANGIE - The Catholic Church officially states that Church tradition is equal in authority to the Bible. (“Catechismâ€? 80, 84, 86, 97) The problem is that Catholic tradition consists of various expressions of worship and belief of the Catholic people. (“Catechismâ€? 78, 98, 113, 2650, 2661) It is nebulous. It keeps changing. You cannot find it written in one place. You can’t really put your hands on exactly what it is. The Catholic Church of Christ, zealous and cautious guardian of the dogmas deposited with it, never changes any phrase of them. It does not diminish them or add to them; it neither trims what seems necessary now grafts things superfluous … but it devotes all its diligence to one aim: To treat tradition faithfully and wisely; to consolidate and to strengthen what already was clear; and to guard what already was confirmed and defined.
By Boscoe
August 22, 2005 08:51 AM | Link to this
ANGIE - The Early Fathers used Scripture as the standard against which they tested Church tradition. The bible was not completed, as we know it, until about 350 A.D. what else but tradition, as Christ taught them, did the apostles teach with? The modern Catholic doctrine that Church tradition is equal in authority with the Bible is contrary to the writings of the Early Fathers. According to Jesus, Scripture is the plumb line for measuring everything else. He judged religious traditions by comparing them to Scripture. When religious traditions contradicted Scripture, he condemned them. Please show me where this was done.
By taboga
August 22, 2005 08:53 AM | Link to this
Boscoe,
Could you be a little faster. I would like to get all the other hundreds of pages from the Bible before lunch today. Thanks much.
By Questions
August 22, 2005 08:53 AM | Link to this
How about Boscoe and Angie exchange private emails for this 16th century debate?
By Boscoe
August 22, 2005 08:54 AM | Link to this
OH ANGIE - The claim for papal infallibility does not stand up to the test of history. For example, Pope Zosimus (417-418 A.D.) reversed the pronouncement of a previous pope. Zosimus recognized the true character of the heretics. He now issued his “Tractoria”, in which Pelagianism and its authors were condemned. Thus, finally, the occupant of the Apostolic See at the right moment maintained with all authority the traditional dogma of the Church, and protected the truth of the Church against error. In 1870, the First Vatican Council abolished “infallibleâ€? papal decrees and the decrees of two “infallibleâ€? councils. WRONG AGAIN ANGIE! The First Vatican Council has defined as “a divinely revealed dogma” that “the Roman Pontiff, when he speaks ex cathedra — that is, when in the exercise of his office as pastor and teacher of all Christians he defines, by virtue of his supreme Apostolic authority, a doctrine of faith or morals to be held by the whole Church — is, by reason of the Divine assistance promised to him in blessed Peter, possessed of that infallibility with which the Divine Redeemer wished His Church to be endowed in defining doctrines of faith and morals; and consequently that such definitions of the Roman Pontiff are irreformable of their own nature (ex sese) and not by reason of the Church’s consent. The catechism makes for interesting reading. Compare it to scripture. But then you don’t go by scripture but instead by the words of fallible popes who have been some of the most dispicable men in history. Infallibility is not attributed to every doctrinal act of the pope, but only to his ex cathedra teaching; and the conditions required for ex cathedra teaching are mentioned in the Vatican decree.
By Boscoe
August 22, 2005 08:56 AM | Link to this
ANGIE - As to Fatima and all the apparitions around the world… The Marian apparitions clearly contradict the teachings of Scripture. How so? ( this is gonna be good ….pay attention everybody) The apparitions’ thousands of messages portray a Queen who possesses all of Christ’s distinct characteristics. She is said to be our Mediator, our Intercessory, our Advocate, our Coredeemer, our Suffering Servant, and many other titles that reveal her deceptive agenda. What are you saying that she’s trying to take over? Stop, please, you make me laugh so hard I can’t breathe….somebody call 911!
By Raylene
August 22, 2005 08:57 AM | Link to this
I don’t think that it should be allowed in public schools. Every one has different religous views, and you can’t force one onto an entire school.
By Boscoe
August 22, 2005 08:58 AM | Link to this
Sorry folks but in the long run it should keep Angie busy and out of the way for awhile. Thanks for your understanding. The prophet Isaiah also warned about a deceiving woman called the “virgin daughter of Babylonâ€? who would be judged by God. In the 47th chapter of Isaiah. Angie, the Babylon that is being metioned is a city dear. In your lengthy post you forgot to mention the last line regarding the city’s merchants. Is it possible that this same Queen of Heaven will delude the world once more? Is the apparition of Mary paving the way for such a delusion? The children gather wood, and the fathers kindle the fire, and the women knead their dough, to make cakes to the QUEEN OF HEAVEN…that they may provoke me to anger. Jeremiah 7:18. “Queen of heaven”… That is, the moon, which they worshipped under that name.
By mit
August 22, 2005 09:00 AM | Link to this
dang, I agree with taboga I took bible history in high school and religions of the world in college. I wasn’t converted for any one of them. Bruce, the problem with your argument is the crusades are not taught. High school history focuses mainly on american history, excluding slavery (they barely touch it) how did we learn about the civil war without going into depth about slavery? thats how it was for me. europe and world history are electives but the crusades is not included, just the most recent wars. the crusades might be skimmed over at best. Though shaunti’s idea of being religiously literate is a good one in that there are many things that indirectly refer to the bible in art and music but I have never once met anyone illiterate in christian religion from this country, have any of you? the bad thing is by teaching bible classes to high schoolers you are making them illiterate of world religions. all or none is what i say. and what about intelligent design in science classes. All the test answers will be ‘because the creator made it that way’. Man that will be an easy test.
By Renee
August 22, 2005 09:01 AM | Link to this
Bad, bad idea.
I don’t see how this could be good for learning historical events when there are a lot of people that don’t believe in the bible to believe in the events.
There are way, way more important courses that can be taught and way more important things the students need to be learning. Why continue to try to cram religion down peoples throats.
By Bean
August 22, 2005 09:06 AM | Link to this
Can someone in AJC please put a stop to people writing “books” on casual blogs?? Thanks.
By Mike MacDonald
August 22, 2005 09:14 AM | Link to this
It seems ridiculous to me not to teach about the most influential and best selling book of all time in school. It also seems strange not to teach about the most influential man of all time (after all, we do number our years based on his birth). As for atheists teaching a class about the Bible, I would actually prefer that to an evangelical teaching it. I want my children’s doctrinal teaching to come from their parents, not their school. We should not allow fear to keep our schools from educating our children about one of the greatest books in all literature or about one of the greatest historical figures who ever lived.
By AllAboutME
August 22, 2005 09:15 AM | Link to this
Ok, Shaunti BIG QUESTION #1: Would you let PS 101 teach your kiddies about Bible if PS 101 School Teacher of Bible Studies is gay?
Further Idiocy in America…SUPER MEGA CHURCHES spend almost all their money on big and fancy buildings, but dont seem to have free religious schooling for their own congregations children…but have mega TV preacher shows…and pay Mega TV preacher salaries…so, Mega Churches dont really give a ** about their congregations tykes learning scripture from their own mega members… So, why dont SUPER MEGA CHURCHES have more free courses in Bibles? I mean, isnt that why they tithe 1/3 of your incomes…or is it for escalator maintenance and fancy windows?… Why do the heavily-indoctrinated Protestant factions insist they want Public School religious classes but in truth they would NEVER send their kids to a public school…because of..secular humanist mind-corruption classes…especially found in Georgia that teach science not evolution. Jews, Catholics, Muslims, Buddhists all teach religious study in their spiffy religous schools. Evangelical Protestants want their doctrine taught by public teachers but also want to maintain a strict Protestant Evangelical hold on what IS/IS NOT TAUGHT…there has to be a evangelical math as explained by the biblically correct… Anyway, I agree if the kids cant read Dick and Jane are they ever going to get through Duteronomy where the begatting goes on for pages ;-)…blame it on Ted Kennedy…
By Mark
August 22, 2005 09:16 AM | Link to this
This class is an elective, so it’s not being forced on students to take it.
Ms. Glass mentions the Texas Freedom Network accusing the publishers of proselytizing. That’s far from the truth. The TFN also accuses the publisher of being biblically incorrect, i.e. the TFN says Jesus was not the Son of God.
Give me a break!
If Ms. Glass were to articulate her argument better, she would aim that the Koran and Old Testament be elective classes as well.
By taboga
August 22, 2005 09:19 AM | Link to this
It seems ridiculous to me not to teach about the most influential and best selling book of all time in school. It also seems strange not to teach about the most influential man of all time (after all, we do number our years based on his birth).
As it’s the all-time bestseller - it must mean that people are buying it and reading it for themselves.
And if Jesus is the most influential man in history - what more needs to be taught?
By Brian Curtis
August 22, 2005 09:21 AM | Link to this
It’s silly to pretend that religion hasn’t had an effect on human history. And that’s where mention of religion belongs: in history classes, as contributing factors to various events and movements. Nothing more, nothing less.
As for “teaching the Bible”—that’s an absurd idea. Religious indoctrination obviously has no place in any institute of learning. Comparative relgion, as a philsophical concept, is a fine concept for college-level liberal-arts electives. But high school is for learning the basics.
Some zealots just can’t stand the idea that government won’t help them brainwash every child in America.
By Bruce
August 22, 2005 09:21 AM | Link to this
Mit,
I didn’t know that World History was not taught in school anymore, sorry. I guess it is fear that drives us not to want the Bible taught in public school.
By happyteacher
August 22, 2005 09:22 AM | Link to this
Well, here we go zooming off the charts on another interesting and intellectually divisive debate. I think Lyrazel hit the nail on the head. With funding for anything beyond the tests or football at an exteme low, I don’t know many school systems who would even begin to think about offering such a course. And let’s face it, with the recent debate over science books and creationism, a course on religion would never make it into the classrooms without a court fight over the curriculum. We’re way too divided right and left these days to do anything down the middle. Teach it at home folks, and let the schools focus on the necessary stuff…
By crepitos
August 22, 2005 09:24 AM | Link to this
As long as they put a sticker in the Bible that says: This is One Groups Beliefs; Students should be encouraged to Consider other Options.
By Brian Curtis
August 22, 2005 09:28 AM | Link to this
Good one, crepitos!
By Questions
August 22, 2005 09:29 AM | Link to this
Do these women, Feldhahn and Glass, ever change their clothes? And what is with Shaunti wearing men’s clothing?
By Heather
August 22, 2005 09:35 AM | Link to this
I think if this is offered as an elective, few kids would actually take it. I see them being more interested in art or music. Religion is too “boring” for most teenagers. The kids who would take it are probably already getting it at home/church.
So then we have a bunch of kids who are believers taking Bible studies from someone who might very well not be a believer. Questionable.
I would say on this one it would probably be best to not have Bible studies in public schools. But I do wish it could be different. I wish it was possible to get the word out to kids who may never hear about God at home, who never attend church.
It would probably help with some of the issues that trouble our kids today, sex, drugs, drinking, peer pressure. There are kids who are completely lost and a little faith instuction could do them a world of good.
By E. Lewis
August 22, 2005 09:47 AM | Link to this
Which version of the Bible are they talking about teaching: King James, New International, Oxford Annotated, etc? Somehow I doubt that folks around here would support the teaching of the Catholic Bible. Let’s at least admit that we are talking about teaching a specific version of the Bible in public schools. The ONLY way the Bible should in any way be included in public education would be in the context of a historical or religions/humanities course. I don’t see too many people supporting teaching about the Torah, Koran, and the book of Mormon or tolerating a discussion of the values of the various Protestant, Catholic, Jewish, Islamic, Buddhist, Hindu, and other various religions that are practiced around the world and by Americans everyday.
Besides, aren’t schools having enough problems teaching student the three R’s? Why burden the already overburdened public schools with something else that is clearly the parents’ responsibility?
By Tim
August 22, 2005 09:49 AM | Link to this
no they shouldn’t… there is my contribution for the week
By Jason
August 22, 2005 09:51 AM | Link to this
Right, well we know who’s got a hidden agenda here don’t we. Why don’t you just be honest Ms. Feldhahn? You like Christianity and you would like everyone else to as well.
There is a lot of education research telling us we are way behind but I don’t recall any of it recommending more Bible study — secular or not. Psssst, math and science, pass it on…
Just as Ms. Glass pointed out, if you are proposing a scholarly study of Christianity (which I doubt you are), then you would be opening a can of worms. The Bible is full of contradictions, atrocities and just plain weirdness. And so is the history of the Church. For example, why does Jesus curse an olive tree? Why does he tell the apostles they need to hate their families? Whats the deal with indulgences and the Inquisition?
By Whiley
August 22, 2005 10:00 AM | Link to this
ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ Dear Woman to Woman, Real live women rarely think about most of the topics you want to discuss.
Please put more thought into this in the future.
Thank you, Whiley
By Archie
August 22, 2005 10:05 AM | Link to this
My short answer to the question is yes the Bible should be taught in public schools if the course is elective. Elective means that only those that want to take the course take the course. I agree with Diane that you may not get wholesale classroom conversions but it would be an elective course so there isn’t that much to get worked up about. If an atheist does not want his/her child to take the course then said does not have to take the course and same thing applies if you are a Buddhist and you don’t want to take the course. If such a course is going to cause other required courses to get less funding or attention then I say don’t offer the bible class but otherwise you can take it or not. This topic isn’t really that deep unless you want to expand it to topic about religion in general.
Although I disagree with Taboga most of time I like this statement: “I just wish we didn’t hate the children so much. Maybe if we didn’t hate them so much, we wouldn’t be trying to dump every societal issue that the majority of adults have convoluted beyond recognition - right into their laps!” Taboga is right that everything you need to learn doesn’t have to taught in school.
By SUZAN
August 22, 2005 10:11 AM | Link to this
JASON, I invite you to point out contradictions in the bible. The bible does not sugar coat anything or anyone. it is meant to teach and to show that even the fallen have hope in the Christ. To make all in the bible perfect would be a contradiction. Jesus cursed a fig tree, Indilgenices and the inquisition are not in the bible but rather a tradition of the catholic church and Jesus did not teach the apostles to hate thier families. Try reading the bible in context of the whold book or the whole chapter and not just by the verse. I believe that a basic understanding of the worlds religions should be taught in school. I do not believe that religion should be taught in public schools but at home and in churches temples and mosque. But not to teach the basics of world religion is like not teaching geography. It’s the whole basis for the wars and the terrorison going on right now. How can it not be taught
By Mike MacDonald
August 22, 2005 10:16 AM | Link to this
And if Jesus is the most influential man in history - what more needs to be taught?
Abraham Lincoln was the most(?) influential president, so why bother to teach about him. The Monroe Doctrine was the most(?) significant policy in American history, so why bother to teach it? And dare I say the Theory of Evolution is the most influential belief about the origin of life, so why bother with it?
We teach about things in school beacause they influence our history and our life, not in spite of it. The historical figure of Jesus and people’s belief in him has significantly influenced the last 2000 years of world history, and has played a significant role in American history. The Bible has played a significant role in art, literature, and history. That is why they should be taught in school.
By taboga
August 22, 2005 10:19 AM | Link to this
But high school is for learning the basics.
Of: Condom usage, Birth Control, Abortion, Diversity, Environmental extremism, Multi-culturalism, Homosexuality, Sexual Abuse, Child Abuse, Teenage Pregnancy, Sexism, Equal Opportunity, Racism, Sensitivity, Globalism, Poverty and Hunger…
…And the destructive effect of Capitalism around the world, which causes oppression, starvation, global warming, war and pending armageddon!
After that, move on to college and get the advanced training!
By SUZAN
August 22, 2005 10:19 AM | Link to this
Thank you Whiley!!!!!
I think most of the topics in this forum are stupid and non relivant to whats really going on. It like women can only think of the most mundane things to discuss. I would like to see more topics surrounding the rising gas prices, the war in iraq, issues surrounding the nuclear wepons programs, the problems in Sudan and other African nations. In fact I would rather see a very strong link towards a think tank mentality for women so perhaps we could bring new ideas and progressive movement towards solving these issues. I would love to participate in these kinds of forums rather than this silly junk
By Questions
August 22, 2005 10:25 AM | Link to this
Gasp - the end of the world is nigh. A Leftist(Archie) and a Rightist (Taboga) agreeing. I am in shock.
By Archie
August 22, 2005 10:31 AM | Link to this
Suzan they already had topics on gas prices and the Iraq war. This is a yes or no forum question in my opinion and since the question uses the “elective” I don’t have a problem with a Bible class.
By Eiri
August 22, 2005 10:34 AM | Link to this
The question is not why bible courses should be kept out of public schools…the question is why should they offer it…elective or otherwise?
If students are interested in the bible they can read it on their own, or get the gist of it at Sunday School.
And this is my contribution for the week.
By kimberly
August 22, 2005 10:41 AM | Link to this
I’m with Whiley. ZZZZ zzzzzz ZZZZZ zzzzzz ZZZZZZ zzzzzz… Somebody wake me when Boscoe and them are done arguing their respective bastardizations of history and fairy tales and squawking that they’re provably true.
By Whiley
August 22, 2005 10:42 AM | Link to this
And THANK YOU SUZAN ! ! The religious chatter is boring me to death. It’s either religion, sex, or homosexuals.
Has anyone heard why that football player died? Could it have been he was overweight & overheated? Football seems extremely dangerous anyway.
By Jennifer
August 22, 2005 10:43 AM | Link to this
No…The church and the state are to be seperate?!?!?! Not pay attention to your history lessons???? I can think of a million things for my children to learn about in school besides God. What are the PARENTS teaching THEIR children??? School did nothing to prepare me for this world. What about intensive teen pregnancy classes…intensive STD classes…onsite day care for teen parents (so that they have an actual shot in this world)…REAL life training that will help them in what ever paths they chose in life… Currently, 75-85% of our children are set up to fail - from the get go. Filling their heads with Government based theology is not going to help.
By Raylene
August 22, 2005 10:43 AM | Link to this
mike- a lot of schools dont like to teach the theory of evolution. public schools shouldnt have any kind of religious classes unless the school itself is religious. there are too many religions out there. it would be insane to do something like that. if my school tried to make us take a bible study class, i would have cut it everyday, or asked to be transfered to a different school.
By Jack
August 22, 2005 10:45 AM | Link to this
Hey Boscoe, lighten up on Angie already.
By Chilao
August 22, 2005 10:48 AM | Link to this
Yes, The Bible should be taught, in a Comparative-Religions ELECTIVE type of class, for advanced seniors, since it really a college-level course. And would include many of the other religions, from Wiccanism to Scientology. Probably not a good idea in that class to discuss why there are so many denominations based on the Bible, though. Might be a good idea to disuss Calvinism, since that is the only real difference between the greatness that is the USA(economically) and the difficulties that have kept Latin America suppressed. (economically). Both basically Christian, correct?
I am certain that a Comparative Religions style course is exactly what the proponents have in mind. NOT!
Would there be proselytizing? Of course not, that only happens at the U.S. Air Force Academy. SNORT
By Raylene
August 22, 2005 10:51 AM | Link to this
Jennifer- my high school had an onsite daycare. for siblings and children of students. they also had a special class for pregnant teens(and the father, if they happened to be in school) and for young parents. fortunetly i was out of school when i had my son, but it is good that my school did something to help out.
By Theeny
August 22, 2005 10:53 AM | Link to this
No Bible courses with my tax dollars. I don’t have a problem with comparative religion classes.
By Bruce
August 22, 2005 10:54 AM | Link to this
Now that the children are asleep (Whiley and Kimberly) we adults can continue with the topic at hand.
By Jack
August 22, 2005 10:54 AM | Link to this
Hi Whiley & Kimberly. :) Where is TT?
By mary
August 22, 2005 10:59 AM | Link to this
Keep the bible/church out of schools and keep schools out of the church. If someone wants to learn about the bible, there are plenty of churches or bible studies in the area. There are too many religions in this country and you simply cannot please everyone, someone will get offended. Teachings about the bible should be done in a church or in the home, not in the public school system. Let the churches offer the elective course.
By Chilao
August 22, 2005 11:01 AM | Link to this
I should correct that Calvinism thought for explaining the economic differences between North and South America. The Catholics made the locals pay for their conversion to Christianity with a slavery system known as debt peonage. The North Americans just wiped most of the locals out. Certainly another factor there.
By Amazed (Independent Woman)
August 22, 2005 11:03 AM | Link to this
No – the class should not be offered at all. The children can get a full lesson about religion at church. Many religious classes are offered during the evenings, Saturday and Sunday for free. And they do not cost the taxpayers one dime.
If Shaunti wants her children to learn about religion/ being a Christian, my suggestion is to continue to take them to church. This will eliminate the possibility of bad influences or opinions she and others might not necessarily agree with regarding religion. At least she can decide which church to attend and if their teachings are up to her religious standards.
By taboga
August 22, 2005 11:05 AM | Link to this
Raylene has raised a new concern - and something we definitely need to address.
What are the schools planning on teaching the children - of the children which are now going to be in Daycare…?
By mit
August 22, 2005 11:08 AM | Link to this
that was the only class I skipped in high school, bible history. got caught too.
it was boring, like earlier stated, and i was in 12th grade taking a class geared around elementary students. We actually had to draw a picture of when god created the heavens and earth. taboga, i never learned about any of those things you listed in HS. not even college. TV yes. history in high school is bad enough without a bible lesson. they still teach that columbus discovered america. and then skim over the vikings and say nothing of the native americans. HS history is pointless. HS should focus on math, science, and language skills (both english and at least one foreign language for all 4 yrs.) all electives like religion, philosophy, and the like in college.
By mit
August 22, 2005 11:12 AM | Link to this
raylene, that is creepy.
school daycares for the students? maybe that list of taboga’s would be a good idea at your school.
By Jennifer
August 22, 2005 11:17 AM | Link to this
Raylene - Fortunate for me - I had my daughter at 23yrs. I never had to worry…but…I saw so many girls from 15 to 18 years of age with babies and no recourse but to drop out. The schools that I went to (as well as the surrounding areas) just did not have these options available. In my community it was frowned upon every way possibly. It is absolutely great that it is offered a some schools now. I just wish it was everywhere. Right now everyone is getting hot and bother about that age old topic - God. That topic will still be there - FOREVER. Why isn’t everyone getting more hot and bothered about things that can actually be changed for the better?!? Lets get daycare in ALL of the high schools. Getting a high school diploma can mean the difference between the streets…welfare…productive living. Let’s help our children succeed…not show them how to quibble over things that NO ONE will ever fully agree upon!
By Teri
August 22, 2005 11:23 AM | Link to this
I am the owner of a Child Academy and found parents waiting in line for the one class that teaches devotion from the Bible. I find more and more parents wanting this as well as I have seen a 150 degree turn around on the children attending. I would love prayer back in the school as well as an elective for a class for Bible. Children and parents could choose and it would hurt no one. We are too soft when people complain and just look at our world!
By mit
August 22, 2005 11:29 AM | Link to this
daycares in all high schools, please. then its alright to get pregnant? its frowned upon for a reason. i knew girls that were pregnant in HS but not one was forced to drop out. what good paying job can you get with a HS diploma these days anyway? name one that’s better than working your way up the ladder at McDonalds.
By sct
August 22, 2005 11:29 AM | Link to this
If the church wants the state to do their job for them they should end the property tax exemption that churches now enjoy.
By Argy
August 22, 2005 11:30 AM | Link to this
Boh-Ring!
By Mara
August 22, 2005 11:32 AM | Link to this
Am I the only one who caught that seriously stupid comment about how “You can’t even walk into an art museum and understand much of what you see without…(bible literacy). In art, music, literature, history, you’d miss a lot.”? Uh, I wasn’t aware that an appreciation for Salvadore Dali, Jackson Pollack, or Boris Vallejo required me to be bible-literate. Do I need to understand biblical “truth” to appreciate Frank Lloydd Write’s architectural vision? Huh! I’ve been enjoying Billie Holliday for years now and never knew that I wasn’t really enjoying her music because I was a bit hazy on who Balaam was or what his a* had to say. And literature? Ye Gods! How did I ever find joy in Thoreau, Frost, or the soaring phrases of Emily Dickinson? How was it possible, without biblical literacy, to lose myself in Tolkien, Dashiell Hammet, and about a gazillion other literary flames? Does Shaunti really agree that only Christians are able to understand art, literature, and history? This guy, Charles Haynes, has gotta be one of the biggest d******* I’ve ever had the misfortune to encounter. And it just shows where these people are coming from for Shaunti to use him as a referance.
Unless they are prepared to also cover the Koran, the Talmud, the vedas, and the other holy writings of the other religeons, then they shouldn’t be prepared to offer tax-funded bible classes either. It is blatently promoting christianity over other religeons. Regardless of whether it’s voluntary brainwashing or not.
By E. Lewis
August 22, 2005 11:34 AM | Link to this
If there is going to be an elective Bible class, will there also be an elective Torah class, a Mormon Book Class, a Koran Class, a Catholic Bible Class, A King James Bible Class, A Sanskrit class?
Which religions are going to be catered to?
Why when schools are cutting arts, music, science labs and other classes would anyone want to add this bag of worms?
By taboga
August 22, 2005 11:36 AM | Link to this
Daycare is a good idea. That way, we can have the entire family in High School at the same time!
Will the daycare be open on Friday nights? We need to make sure that it is. Otherwise Mom and Dad wouldn’t be able to go to the football games and get drunk with all the other students - Or Moms and Dads as it were.
We’ve got to be pro-active and think about these kinds of things!
By Heather
August 22, 2005 11:36 AM | Link to this
What about why we need daycare in schools for the students? Doesn’t that seem just a little sad to you people? We have young, young girls getting pregnant. I hear all about how we need social programs to take care of these girls and their children but these same people flip out whenever you mention trying to restrain them from sex. Don’t teach abstainance, teach birthcontrol. You know these kids can’t resist having sex. Its such a NATURAL act!!!
By kimberly
August 22, 2005 11:40 AM | Link to this
Bruce, who are you calling “children?” Can I have some juice and cookies?
By Questions
August 22, 2005 11:41 AM | Link to this
Actually, when you look at all of the religious imagery at the Salvador Dali Museuem in St. Petersburg, Florida. LOL
By Raylene
August 22, 2005 11:41 AM | Link to this
well i was almost 18 when i had my son, but i did finish high school. i had finished already. but like i said, the daycare was for the students siblings also. not just for the students children
By Raylene
August 22, 2005 11:44 AM | Link to this
mit, all i have right now is a hs diploma. yes i am taking other courses now, but i have a very good job with nothing but a diploma. so watch what you say.
By Whiley
August 22, 2005 11:46 AM | Link to this
Jack & Bruce ! What did you do this fine deathly hot weekend? How did people survive before air conditioners????
By Raylene
August 22, 2005 11:47 AM | Link to this
no that doesnt mean that its ok to get pregnant at a young age. it means that there is support for the people that make mistakes. something alot of teens dont have.
By taboga
August 22, 2005 11:48 AM | Link to this
Something else we need to consider.
Are the children of the children going to be allowed to ride the school bus? And if so, are we going to need car seats available on the buses or will the Moms and Dads be required to bring their own?
By Jennifer
August 22, 2005 11:50 AM | Link to this
Well…mit…when you chose to take off those rose colored glasses.. Trust me buddy, good jobs are out there for those who are not lazy. I work at IBM. I only have a HS diploma. I can now code JCL - manipulate STK and IBM robotics and software in order to monitor data streams and resolve a wide variety of hardware intervention…I could go on and on. Use your head. Pay attention to the world you live in. You might learn something. Day care in school does not advocate teenage pregnancy. It does help educate those who find themselves to be teenagers and pregnant and a chance to help keep them off of welfare. Are you from this era or have you been living in a hole.
By Archie
August 22, 2005 11:52 AM | Link to this
Whiley I got up early Saturday for a bike ride. By early I mean before 8 a.m. I washed the car late Saturday. Yes, this a yes or forum question. Is there something wrong with the word elective?
By t
August 22, 2005 11:54 AM | Link to this
This was an extremely long board to read today but still I want to put in my two cents. First, Boscoe, while obviously informed, you came very close to flooding the board. I’m sure you could’ve condensed your replies to say what you needed to say. Actually, what you did, was distract readers from your message by your long winded reply.
Secondly, I am in agreement with most, where if there is any type of religious class offered, it should be a WORLD RELIGION course and non specific to just Christianity. For the most part however, I believe this belongs in a private school rather then a public school. It is the responsibility of the parent to instil that type of education in their children.
If any class needs to be added to the school curriculums it’s drivers education and a more advanced course on sex education. Knowledge is power, and perhaps if the proper education was provided on sexual subjects, we wouldn’t need to discuss the options of daycares in school.
By Heather
August 22, 2005 11:57 AM | Link to this
But Raylene, one of the problems with providing “alot” of support for these “mistakes” is that it encourages and makes it easy to make these “mistakes” to begin with. If 10 girls in the 10th grade get pregnant and start bringing their babies to school, it becomes “cool” to do it too.
I think you have personally done a great job, you made sure you got your education, but many girls will not follow the same path.
By ANGIE
August 22, 2005 11:57 AM | Link to this
Boscoe, you can insult me if that makes you happy but it does nothing to prove your case. Several points to make then it’s back to work. Jesus said on the cross, “it is finished!â€? There was ONE sacrifice made for ALL sin. There is no need for the sacrifice of the Catholic Mass, no need to perpetuate it. There is no need for any more sacrifices in the eyes of God-Jesus paid the price IN FULL for our sins. Exodus 20:4,5 “You shall not make for yourself an idol, or any likeness of what is in heaven above or on the earth beneath or in the water under the earth. You shall not worship them or serve them.â€? We can be sure that God will never contradict Himself by entering into material objects such as bread and wine and then ordering people to worship them. Isaiah 42:8 “I am the Lord, that is My name; I will not give my glory to another, nor My praise to graven images.â€? Jesus asked us to keep the Lord’s Supper in rememberance of Him-not to re-sacrifice Him daily on an altar to appease God. (And I am sure God does not approve of the many catholic relics, statues and idols.)
Jesus rebuked some of the Pharisees stating, “neglecting the commandment of God, you hold to tradition of men.� Mark 7:8 Jesus told the Pharisees and teachers of the law, �you invalidated the word of God for the sake of your tradition.� Matthew 15:6 Scripture alone is our spiritual guide, and the Holy Spirit is our teacher. See John 14:18,26
The Marian apparitions have called for greater devotion to Mary (which goes against the bible and deflects from Jesus), prayers of the rosary (which are pagan in origin and repetitious, both of which God detests), requesting people wear the scapular and the miraculous medal (idolatry and veneration of Mary)-instructing people to wear this scapular at their death in order to be ‘delivered from purgatory the 1st Saturday after their death’ (the false notion of a place called purgatory-where Catholics believe you finish paying for your sins-which means Jesus didn’t have to die on the cross-and the false assurance of the person wearing it of going to heaven on a particular day,if at all). The Mary of the bible would never call for people to worship her, which is what these false spirits do. If the messages these spirits proclaim goes against scripture then it is not from God. As for the RC practice of the living invoking the spirits of the dead (as in Mary and all the saints they pray to and worship), it has more to do with spiritism and divination, both condemned in scripture, than with any Christian practice. (Deuteronomy 18:10,11)
When misguided Catholics kneel before a statue of Mary, kiss her feet and offer to her praise and petition, they give a creature the devotion which belongs to God alone. The RCC promises that “all those who seek Mary’s protection will be saved for all eternity.� This is a blasphemous statement. One more example of how they give the role and attributes of Jesus to Mary. (He was immaculately conceived-she was immaculately conceived. He was sinless-she was sinless. He suffered for our sins-she suffered for our sins and offered Jesus for us. He ascended to heaven-she ascended to heaven. We are saved through Jesus-we are saved through Mary. He is our King-she is the Queen of heaven. These are false doctrines. She is not Jesus nor has she the same charachteristics or attributes of Jesus. As Peter boldly proclaimed about the Lord Jesus Christ, “There is salvation in no one else; for there is no other name under heaven that has been given among men by which we must be saved..� Acts 4:12
The Catholic church teaches the following: 1- serious sins must be confessed to a priest 2- the priest forgives sin as a judge 3- when the guilt of sin is forgiven, temporal punishment remains 4- no one can know if he will attain to eternal life 5- eternal life is a merited reward. In opposition to these teachings the bible tells us: 1- Sin is to be confessed directly to God (Ezra 10:11) 2- No one can forgive sin but God alone (Mark 2:7) 3- When God forgives sin, He completely forgives. (Colossians 2:13, Isaiah 43:25) 4- The believer can know that he has eternal life by the word of God. (1 John 5:13) 5- Eternal life is a free gift of God. (Romans 6:23).
There just isn’t the space on this forum to go into the detail necessary to explain why I have no doubts about the teaching of the Roman Catholic Church being completely false and misleading. Boscoe, no need to start the cut and paste battle. I’ll be working through the afternoon and won’t be able to respond until late. (I’m sure you’ll all be happy not to hear from the Protestant for awhile. You can go back to discussing important things like homosexuality and atheism.) Let the insults begin…and have a nice day!:)
By taboga
August 22, 2005 12:01 PM | Link to this
Will future high school Moms and Dads have their yearbook picture with the whole family together, or separate photos for each of them and the child?
By Raylene
August 22, 2005 12:02 PM | Link to this
thank you Jennifer. mit must not realize that more and more teenagers are having babies. i know of 19 yr olds that have 2 kids. or 20 yr olds that have 3. thats just a fact of life. and in the past it happened too. woman got married at 14 and had 6 kids by the time they were 21. heather and i were just reading about a 38 yr old woman who is pregnant with her 16th child. meaning she started when she was 19/20.
By SUZAN
August 22, 2005 12:04 PM | Link to this
The only other ting I choose to mention on this topic is to reinterate the fact that you cant teach basic history with out teaching about world religions on a whole. However I do not believe that the public schools need to teach religion as a matter of course. I have noticed that a lot of people here are very hostile towards any religion and the practice of religion. Also the constitution says nothing about seperation of church and state, Jefferson wrote the first phrase ‘separation of church and state’ in response to a letter from the Commitee of the Danbury Baptist Assoc. in Connecticut.
He said, “Believing with you that religion is a matter which lies solely between man and his God, that he owes account to none other for his faith or his worship, that the legislative powers of government reach actions only, and not opinions [emphasis added], I contemplate with sovereign reverence that act of the whole American people which declared that their legislature should make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof,& thus building a wall of separation between Church and State. Adhering to this expression of the supreme will of the nation in behalf of the rights of conscience, I shall see with sincere satisfaction the progress of those sentiments which tend to restore to man all his natural rights, convinced he has no natural right in opposition to his social duties.”
The Constitution of The United States reads:
“Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.”
Hope that clears up a lot of anger and hostility towards the pratice of religion and those that would try and stop all pratice of religion anywhere and every where they can It is not appropriate in public schools but I will say that all major Universities started in this country were bible based universities like Yale, Harvard, Princeton, Duke, and so on……
By Argy
August 22, 2005 12:06 PM | Link to this
Let the insults begin…and have a nice day!
Oh, well I guess I’d better start. Angie, you smell like puppy breath. Taboga, you’re a buck futter. Archie, you look like the backside of a baboon. And Boscoe Roads, aren’t 5 Guinnesses enough for breakfast?
By Raylene
August 22, 2005 12:06 PM | Link to this
T- teenagers would still have babies. mistakes happen, and no matter how much education is given, they will still happen. birth control doesnt always work and condoms break. you cant expect teenagers to not have sex. can you honestly say that you never had sex when you were a teen?
By Jack
August 22, 2005 12:10 PM | Link to this
Whiley, the sun wasn’t as hot way back then and there were fewer mosquitos. LOL
By Argy
August 22, 2005 12:14 PM | Link to this
All? That’s a laugh.
By Ken
August 22, 2005 12:14 PM | Link to this
I’m not sure why this topic even came up, but I definitely do not want public schools offering courses on the Bible to students…
The worst thing that ever happened to Christianity was the Emperor Constantine declaring it as the official religion of the empire. That removed the idea of “faith” from the equation and made it a matter of survival. Once “faith” is removed, everything else becomes irrelevent.
I do believe that a comparative religion class would be beneficial, especially in the good ole’ USA. We have so many religions and religious denominations in our society that a basic understanding may make it easier to relate to the disparate religious groups in our country. I suspect, that we would realize when the radicals are removed from the equation, we are more alike than we are different.
Leave the religious training to me (the parent) and to my church or other place of worship. Because, this subject, like every other taught at the public school, my wife and myself know more than the teachers anyway.
By SUZAN
August 22, 2005 12:17 PM | Link to this
So argy nae a few that were not started to teach theology as the major for the college and we’ll both do a little research shall we
By Ken
August 22, 2005 12:19 PM | Link to this
Argy… Why is that a laugh…?
Emory and Duke, for example were Methodist universities that changed thie names and now have very influencial Seminary programs.
Many IVy League schools also have very prominent religious studies departments and equally influencial Seminary programs.
I don’t think I would say ALL, but many were.
By Jennifer
August 22, 2005 12:20 PM | Link to this
You are welcome, Raylene. There is ALWAYS the way we want things and then there is how things REALLY are. It is distressing, in this day and age, to still have people who have absolutely no idea how things really are. Or rather, they live in their own self imposed denial coma. Hoping and praying for things to be right and just does not make them so. If that were the case then we wouldn’t be the United States of America. We would still be the colonies.
And…Taboga…yes, yes they should have their pictures taken for the year book together! Why not? By being together, they have acomplished many things. Whenther you see it or not is beside the point.
By Len
August 22, 2005 12:22 PM | Link to this
The difference between a cult and a religion is time. The catholics have had plenty of time to make that transition. But they stil are a gullable, easily mislead bunch of idolaters. They worship a guy in a funny hat, and have managed to convince themselves that Mary remained a virgin, even though she married Joseph and had additional children. What a sad bunch of nuts. Christians shouldn’t clamor for public school bible courses unless they are comfortable with making available courses on other religions. Who’s going to pay for that? How much conflict will ensue as religious discussions among students escalate to violence? Is it worth it? There’s a church on every street corner eager to teach the lessons of the bible, and it won’t cost the tax payers a dime!
By Argy
August 22, 2005 12:35 PM | Link to this
All right: University of Washington, Oregon State University, Washington State University
By Lyrazel
August 22, 2005 12:44 PM | Link to this
Most kids cant find Idaho on a map these days…muchless know who their state senators are…and Shaunti thinks that is fertile ground for teaching a complex religious text? If kids dont get recess I would HATE to have to teach Bible Lit to a group of 10 year olds…
Keep churches open longer hours for religious teaching of Scriptures more than is done now if you want more Bible Study for your kids. Thats what you tithe for! I dont know about most of you—but I learned about god at church not at school. At school I learned about BOYS! Ha ha ha….well thats all I remember… beyond my Civil Defense Air Raid Drills, how to be a mean hall monitor…and wondering if I could get out of a chemistry exam when the Japs invaded us in Weyauwega…
Crepitos: (FYI God of Farts): How much does it cost for all them stickers to be removed?
By Bruce
August 22, 2005 12:52 PM | Link to this
Whiley,
I got up at 5:45 and took one of my daughters to meet the 4-H group for a trip to Atlanta for a Braves game. Went back home swam for about :45 and then went fishing until around noon. At 3:00 I had my youngest at teh skate rink for a birthday party for one of her friends. Picked her up and 4:00. Cut grass the rest of the afternoon and watched Big Brother at 8:00. Sunday - swam from 5:00 to 6:00 was at church for breakfast by 7:00 back to church by 10:00. Lunch at 1:00, watched the race, and back to church for another meeting. Picked up my oldest from the Atlanta trip at 6:30 and went to bed early.
Thanks for asking and how was your weekend?
By sct
August 22, 2005 12:53 PM | Link to this
“Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion,
Here is part of an Aug 2, 2005 AP story:
*AUSTIN – A religious watchdog group went on the attack Monday against a Bible study course taught in hundreds of schools in Texas and across the country, saying it pushes students toward conservative Protestant viewpoints and violates religious freedom.
The Texas Freedom Network, which includes clergy of several faiths, said the course offered by the National Council on Bible Curriculum in Public Schools is full of errors and dubious research that promote a fundamentalist Christian view.*
Sounds like establishment of religion to me. The problem here is its inevitable that a course like this is going to go too far.
Take this blog for example, last week turned into the battle of the christians. Christians fighting over whose truth was the truthiest, 20 christians battling each other over 20 different truths.
By Whiley
August 22, 2005 12:56 PM | Link to this
What about this give all the kids laptops in Cobb County? Who’s paying for that? That is a mistake in the biggest way. Laptops will be stolen, dropped, hacked, sold. Who is going to handle all those lap top repairs? I’m not paying for that. AND WHO IS RESPONSIBLE FOR SUCH A STUPID IDEA? Let’s drag them to the Marietta Square & throw Ding Dongs at them.
By Raylene
August 22, 2005 12:57 PM | Link to this
wow it got boring again
By Married, Whether the Zealots Like It Or Not
August 22, 2005 01:04 PM | Link to this
Questions — Shaunti is a secret lesbian!! I find it amusing that I am a million times more attractive and more feminine that someone who bashes lesbians as she does.
By taboga
August 22, 2005 01:14 PM | Link to this
Sounds like establishment of religion to me. The problem here is its inevitable that a course like this is going to go too far.
And is it Congress who would be “establishing” it?
By Heather
August 22, 2005 01:15 PM | Link to this
I teach my son about the Bible and God everyday. The poor little guy has gone through all of my changing religious ideas but I am thankful to be the one in control of what is being presented to him. I know what I have told him and I know what I have held back for a later date. There are too many false ideas out there pretending to be truth for me to be comfortable with the idea of teaching Bible studies in a secular school.
By Raylene
August 22, 2005 01:16 PM | Link to this
Married- that was last weeks discussion. sorry you missed it, but we are on a new topic now. and maybe if you dont want her to bash lesbians, you shouldnt judge her on her sexuality.
By Jack
August 22, 2005 01:21 PM | Link to this
Just because something is offered does not necessarily mean that it is endorsed.
Whiley. Good idea, however, we should substitute manure for Ding Dongs.
By Bruce
August 22, 2005 01:22 PM | Link to this
Whiley,
The lottery will pay for the laptops and there replacements.
By chickenoregg
August 22, 2005 01:28 PM | Link to this
which came first? the lesbian or the lesbian-basher?
no pun intended.hahahahaha
By Renee
August 22, 2005 01:29 PM | Link to this
Wow, this forum gets very hateful. It seems like there are some people who have had never made mistakes and they just look down on people. It’s amazing how many perfect people we have. Never met one but they seem to be in abundance in this forum.
By taboga
August 22, 2005 01:33 PM | Link to this
Back to the Daycare in High School issue…
Will the school have to provide the Moms and Dads cellphones?
If something were to happen to the children’s child while they were skipping classess or making drug deals somewhere - how would the daycare folks get in touch with the Parents…?
By Raylene
August 22, 2005 01:36 PM | Link to this
well the point of this blog is for people to express their opinions, but it seems that no one can do so without getting jumped on. everyone thinks that they are right, and anyone else is wrong. well not everyone, but alot of people on here are.
By readthenews
August 22, 2005 01:40 PM | Link to this
Whiley, et al. The laptop program was killed by a judge several weeks ago when he decided that the SPLOST tax (not a lottery)was not specifically designated for the laptop program - although it was earmarked for technological upgrades. The bidding process for the laptop initiative was investigated by an outside firm and at best was found to be questionable, as has many of superintendent Redding’s hiring practices which violated county laws. Also the board is voting on whether to fire or retain him for the rest of his contract this Thursday. Don’t worry - there are NO LAPTOPS coming.
By Raylene
August 22, 2005 01:41 PM | Link to this
taboga- not all teenage parents do drugs and skip school. that is seriously stero-typing. i am a young mother, and while i was out of school when i had my son, i never did drugs or sold them. its not just the “bad” kids that get pregnant. straight A students can find themselves pregnant.
By Renee
August 22, 2005 01:42 PM | Link to this
Why does it have to be taboga, that just because someone has a child too early in life, that they would be skipping classes and dealing drugs. What does one have to do with the other?
By Argy
August 22, 2005 01:42 PM | Link to this
Raylene,
I know I’m wrong sometimes. That’s why I like discussions; I can find out which of my opinions are stupid and can change them. Unfortunately, I resort to ear-poking when there are stupid topics like this week’s.
By Bruce
August 22, 2005 01:42 PM | Link to this
Taboga,
They could use those little flashing light things like you get at Outback while you wait for a table. Or even the scholl intercom system to page them. Cellphones are not allowed in school. Someone might use them to cheat on a test.
By Jennifer
August 22, 2005 01:46 PM | Link to this
Taboga - you do tend to extreme things. What happens when a child is in Day Care and gets hurt…lost…etc… Why don’t you think real real hard and the answers to your questions may find themselves. But be very careful. I’d hate for you to hurt yourself.
By Tim
August 22, 2005 01:46 PM | Link to this
Cellphones are not allowed in school. Someone might use them to cheat on a test
the smart kids just use their graphing calculators from calculus to cheat :)
By readthenews
August 22, 2005 01:48 PM | Link to this
A better use of the splost money would be to buy every student a “SURVIVAL PACK” which would include a Bible, a box of condoms, a drug indentification kit (so they know what they’re taking) and a copy of “Rich Dad, Poor Dad.” What else could they need?
By Boscoe
August 22, 2005 01:50 PM | Link to this
Angie, the main testimony for the Mass lies in the New Testament in the account of the institution of the Eucharist, and most clearly in the words of consecration spoken over the chalice. -Matt., xxvi, 28: For this is my blood of the new testament, which shall be shed for many unto remission of sins. Mark, xiv, 24: This is my blood of the new testament which shall be shed for many. Luke, xxii, 20:This is the chalice, the new testament in my blood, which shall be shed for you. I Cor., xi, 25: This chalice is the new testament in my blood. The Divine institution of the sacrifice of the altar is proved by showing: that the “shedding of blood” spoken of in the text took place there and then and not for the first time on the cross; that it was a true and real sacrifice; that it was considered a permanent institution in the Catholic Church. I agree when the Church says that salvation comes only through Christ, it means that anyone who is saved is saved because of the death of Christ on the cross. This should be taken literally. The Rosary is at the same time a simple prayer, but theologically rich in biblical references. In the rosary we meditate on the principal salvific events that were accomplished in Christ: from the virginal conception to the culminating moments of Easter and the glorification of the Mother of God. This prayer is one of praise and a continued plea to Mary, Most Holy, that she may intercede for us poor sinners at every hour of our day, to the hour of our death. Reciting the rosary we contemplate Christ. We meditate on the mystery of the Lord’s life, passion and resurrection. While we may revere Mary and the Saints, worship is due only to God. It is illogical to base faith upon the private interpretation of a book. For faith consists in submitting. Private interpretation consists in judging, it rests with the reader, who submits the text of Scripture to a kind of post-mortem examination and delivers a verdict without appeal: he believes in himself rather than in any higher authority. But such trust in one’s own light is not faith. Private judgment is fatal to the theological virtue of faith. It stands to reason, and Protestant history confirms it. The divisions, not only between religion and religion but within the same beliefs, have become a byword. They are due to the pride of private intellect, and they can only be healed by humble submission to a Divine authority. Before the coming of Christ, penance was not a sacrament, nor is it since His coming a sacrament for those who are not baptized. But the Lord then principally instituted the Sacrament of Penance, when, being raised from the dead, he breathed upon His disciples saying: ‘Receive ye the Holy Ghost. Whose sins you shall forgive, they are forgiven them; and whose sins you shall retain, they are retained’ (John, xx, 22-23). By which action so signal and words so clear the consent of all the Fathers has ever understood that the power of forgiving and retaining sins was communicated to the Apostles and to their lawful successors, for the reconciling of the faithful who have fallen after Baptism. Our biblical basis for confessions is John 20:20-23. Some parts of the Bible used to support the Catholic Church’s understanding on Purgatory are: Maccabbees 12:39-46; 1st Corinthians 3:15, Matthew 5:25-26; and Matthew 12:31-32. Regarding praying to the Saints, Hebrews 12:1, Romans 15:31, 1st Corinthians 12:26-27, Ephesians 2:20 are used. The parts of the Hail Mary prayer that come DIRECTLY from Scripture are: “Hail Mary, full of grace, the Lord is with you. Blessed are you among women and blessed is the fruit of your womb…” Luke 2:28 and then Luke 2:42. Hope this helps Angie.
By George and Jesus
August 22, 2005 01:51 PM | Link to this
Raylene,
Straight A students who know CHRIST would not find themselves pregnant.
By Raylene
August 22, 2005 01:52 PM | Link to this
argy- that was my point. but alot of people dont think like that. thank you for admitting that you can be wrong though. i know i am too. i like to read about what others think.
By Just Being Me
August 22, 2005 01:53 PM | Link to this
RAYLENE: You’re almost implying that everyone has sex as a teen, and that’s simply not true. I have four sisters. My baby sister had sex at age 14. The next oldest got pregnant the very first time she had sex, at age 22. My older sister lost her virginity at age 16, and the oldest was 23 and married when she had sex for the first time.
Some teens do it, some practice delayed gratification.
ANGIE Don’t even respond to him. He’s making himself look like a deranged nutcase.
MIT Although I have a 4-year degree, not one of my managers does. Further, I am finding that most hiring managers today are more interested in experience or a combination of education and experience than they are in just degrees. My point is that you can indeed get a “good job” with just a HS diploma. I actually have a friend who has been a paralegal since we graduated from HS some years ago. She just got her zillionth raise putting her at a 6-figure salary. You guessed it! She never went to college, or even took a certification course.
Oh, and one last thing about whoever kept saying that kids make mistakes. Most of those cases of teen pregnancy are not mistakes, they are simply BAD DECISIONS mixed in with a bit of lack of self-control, irresponsibility and immaturity.
By Bruce
August 22, 2005 01:53 PM | Link to this
Tim,
Ga. schools are ranked 49 out of 50 in intelligence. Smart kids in our schools in an oxymoron.
By sct
August 22, 2005 01:53 PM | Link to this
And is it Congress who would be “establishing� it?
Because of the Fourteenth Amendment and various Supreme Court decisions, the prohibition applies to all levels of state government, including school districts. In other words, the Texas state legislature and school boards “shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion.”
By Raylene
August 22, 2005 01:54 PM | Link to this
wow. i dont think that anyone is actually reading that whole thing boscoe.
By Whiley
August 22, 2005 01:54 PM | Link to this
Thank you readthenews, For some reason I never heard the outcome of that most ridiculous laptop proposal. What where they thinking? Were they all high on pot & painkillers?
We never had cell phones in school because they didn’t exist. WE survived just dandy without them.
We also had enough mind numbingly boring classes. Bible courses would have been the icing on the cake that would have put us all into comas.
By Heather
August 22, 2005 01:55 PM | Link to this
I was just thinking how laws have been passed to ensure all drivers wear seat belts. I think a law should be passed requiring all menstrating teenagers to wear chastity belts.
By Renee
August 22, 2005 01:58 PM | Link to this
Straight A students, who “know” christ, are preachers children, in the choir and the honor society get pregnant, among other things.
By Whiley
August 22, 2005 02:02 PM | Link to this
” I think a law should be passed requiring all menstrating teenagers to wear chastity belts.”
or security alarms on all boys “privates”
By Raylene
August 22, 2005 02:02 PM | Link to this
i didnt say that all teens have sex. i said that we cant stop them from doing it. and really more than a mistake, its an accident. i dont think of my son as a mistake, and i certainly dont regret having him.
By Heather
August 22, 2005 02:03 PM | Link to this
chastity belts with double padlocks!!!!
By Evan
August 22, 2005 02:05 PM | Link to this
Bible classes could be good, if they are taught by somebody interesting. And it was in conjunction with Aramaic, Hebrew, Greek, and Latin (I’m a linguist.).
For years, I was turned off by Christianity. The King James version of the bible did not relate to my life, and the language was far to complex to understand. Could you imagine teaching a sixteen year old: “Thou shalt not…” and having to explain the language?
By Heather
August 22, 2005 02:05 PM | Link to this
Whiley, for once we agree. All boys should have security alarms. When the temperature goes up, the alarm goes off at the nearest police station. The police arrive and question the youth about the reason for the temperature increase of that particular part of his body.
By Just Being Me
August 22, 2005 02:06 PM | Link to this
RAYLENE - I’m not trying to come down on you, but you seem to really be taking a passive approach to explaining teen pregnancy… using phrases like “… students find themselves pregnant” implies that they just woke up one morning and found themselves pregnant like a kid who wakes up and finds themselves riddled with acne.
You also keep referring to teen pregnancy as a “mistake” that kids make…
By George and Jesus
August 22, 2005 02:09 PM | Link to this
Renee,
Then they don’t really “know” Christ! Duh!
By Raylene
August 22, 2005 02:09 PM | Link to this
News Flash!!!!! Heather finally bought a purse!
By taboga
August 22, 2005 02:10 PM | Link to this
Why does it have to be taboga, that just because someone has a child too early in life, that they would be skipping classes and dealing drugs.
That was pretty good. It’s as if you compare pregnancy with pre-mature balding. Just comes a little “early in life”…
By Heather
August 22, 2005 02:10 PM | Link to this
Raylene, finally gets her butt kicked by co-worker Heather. News at 11.
By Questions
August 22, 2005 02:10 PM | Link to this
those PKs are the hottest and wildest.wow, remember when.
well, Angie is reading those long Boscoe posts since she will pick it apart. just take it to private email, folks.
ANGIE - set up a one-time bogus yahoo, post it here for Boscoe, and then you can take it from there to a more permanent email. those kinds of convos go on for centuries, you know.
Married, Whether the Zealots Like It Or Not - I was just trying to get in touch with my fundamentalist upbringing, by making that men’s clothing remark. But the thought made me so sick to my stomach, I was unable to finish lunch. the upbringing thought, not the clothing thought.
Any wagers on Heather’s son ending up gay?
By Just Being Me
August 22, 2005 02:12 PM | Link to this
Actually, RAYLENE what you said was:
you cant expect teenagers to not have sex. can you honestly say that you never had sex when you were a teen?
This statement implies that you believe all adults had sex as teens, and that simply isn’t true.
By Tim
August 22, 2005 02:12 PM | Link to this
Bruce… my mistake lol
lol @ Whiley… would an alarm sound everytime they got an erection? if that is the case I sure am glad I never had one… I wouldn’t have ever been able to hear anything else except my lil alarm lol
By George and Jesus
August 22, 2005 02:13 PM | Link to this
You don’t “find yourself” in the backseat of a car with your legs behind your ears! These people have chosen to disrespect the Lord and defile themselves!
By SnottyNozeBrat
August 22, 2005 02:14 PM | Link to this
A. Angie (?) and Bosco ya’ll need to get your own blog, or stay on topic. Believe without questioning? I’ve been struck lately with the similarities between nuns habits and the burqa - and “you will believe what I tell you” mindset. Ya’ll are scaring me, please…
Christ said they will know you are my followers if you have love for one another. Not if you are dogmatically correct in all your silly thinking.. ew ew ew guys.
B. Well, on second though, the discussion of religeon brings out the crazies, think I’ll teach my children myself.
By mit
August 22, 2005 02:17 PM | Link to this
why don’t ya’ll just make Slut High School and bring all the mommys in for the daycare and GED program. Not one single HS mom that I ever knew had an active dad for their child, not one. How many boyfriends/girlfriends did you have in HS? very few had only one that they married after they graduated. Teenage boys dont want to be dads and there is nothing to make them play dad not even the child. girls that are cool because they bring little johnny to school is the end result. more girls will then want kids of their own, none of you watch springer? I am glad you have jobs that you are happy with a HS diploma. I am sure you all got hired right out of HS, making 100K/yr. The more schooling the more well rounded of a person you will be. Mcdonald employees are probably happy too. but you know nobody shoots to become one. with just a HS diploma, your math skills are poor at best, unless you go take extra courses like raylene. would you have that job if you didn’t take extra courses? have you ever taken a calculus class raylene? what about english lit, history, science, and all the other classes that are not really ‘taught’ until college, HS just skims the surface. Could any of you HS only pass a GED today? without studying that is, just go and take it and pass and not just barely pass with a 70 either. From my HS and college experiences, I just see the HS only person in real trouble My sister and brother both have their GEDs but they lack real knowledge. my brother is a firefighter with a good job and he’s happy, but that didn’t happen overnight and took a very long time for him. my sister is still wondering around lost at 23. her knowledge skills are even worse than my brothers. he went to take the GED and passed in one day without studying. my sis took 6 tries and barely passed, 6 TIMES. that’s pathetic.
By Renee
August 22, 2005 02:17 PM | Link to this
well George and Jesus, what does straight A’s have to do with it then. Also “knowing” Jesus does not make you perfect, does not mean you don’t “sin” and do things that go against the religious teaching.
Taboga, you still didn’t answer my question. What you did was have a “comeback” which diverts from the original question.
By George and Jesus
August 22, 2005 02:17 PM | Link to this
Questions - why would you wish someone’s son was gay? Why not “wanna bet Heather’s son gets cancer?” Please, think and show some liberal sensitivity before you post.
By Raylene
August 22, 2005 02:18 PM | Link to this
well i happen to know something about being a pregnant teenager. i was one. obviously i didnt mean that they wake up pregnant. but they dont plan it either. and i just corrected calling it a mistake.
By taboga
August 22, 2005 02:20 PM | Link to this
Renee,
And what was the question…
By Renee
August 22, 2005 02:26 PM | Link to this
Mit, no I don’t watch Springer and I am surpised that someone with your educational background would. Why does the school have to be referred to as a “slut school” for the mommy’s. What about the little nasty teenage boys that impregnated them. If the girl is a slut, the boy would be too.
By George and Jesus
August 22, 2005 02:27 PM | Link to this
Renee, This was my original statement; please follow along dear:
“Straight A students who know CHRIST would not find themselves pregnant.”
This doesn’t suggest all straight A students know Christ, or that all students who know Christ get straight A’s. I wasn’t making a cause and effect correlation between the two. It simply states that straight A students, who know Christ, won’t get pregnant. I’m sure any slut, regardless of her academic level, can get knocked up.
By Heather
August 22, 2005 02:28 PM | Link to this
Questions, don’t make comments about my child.
By Jack
August 22, 2005 02:31 PM | Link to this
Renee. This blog does get hateful sometimes. I’m guilty of getting hateful at times but I try to make up with those that I have had heated arguements with. We disagree on some things and agree on others. ask Tim or Eaton. :)
By Questions
August 22, 2005 02:32 PM | Link to this
George and Jesus - misreading scripture again were you? nowhere in my post does it state it would be a wish of mine. Nowhere. But if gayness is environmental?
wow, being gay worse than having cancer? many here would disagree I would think, not that you would care if they do.
this is funny, I have stock in pharmaceuticals, like people to have to pop those heart meds. How am I doing?
By Whiley
August 22, 2005 02:33 PM | Link to this
I’d agree to your “Slut High School”, if you’ll agree to Baby-Daddy Mandatory Vasectomy boot camps.
I’ll even pay for them.
By Questions
August 22, 2005 02:33 PM | Link to this
Heather - you brought him up. But I’ll respect your wishes.
By George and Jesus
August 22, 2005 02:36 PM | Link to this
Renee,
Why do woman like you want live in a genderless culture? “If girls are sluts then boys are too!” Males have certain charateristics, and females have certain characteristics - why must the two become one. The difference is that a woman takes greater risks when engaging in sexual behavior, therefore should be more responsible.
By Renee
August 22, 2005 02:36 PM | Link to this
George and Jesus my point was that “knowing” christ should be enough, it shouldn’t matter what their grades are. And I don’t think because a teenager gets pregnant she should be referred to as a slut. Teenage pregnancy does happen, in all types of homes to all types of teens. Doesn’t make them bad. They just need to take responsibility at that point for what has occured (mistake, bad decision) or whatever you want to refer to it as.
By Heather
August 22, 2005 02:37 PM | Link to this
No Questions, what you implied was that I was raising my son in such a way as to “make” him gay. That is totally unacceptable. You have gone too far and I would appreciate an apology. I have not seen anyone here make comments about anyone’s child. It does get nasty but that was completely below the belt. Say what you want about me, but DO NOT turn your nastiness on a 9 year old boy.
By Bruce
August 22, 2005 02:42 PM | Link to this
Speaking of Eaton, where is he when you need him?
By Raylene
August 22, 2005 02:44 PM | Link to this
mit- i have a real diploma, and no i didnt take calculus class. i am studying to be a veterinary assistant. that is really besides the point. i know people that still made something of themselves after having a child at a young age. and i also know people that didnt graduate and dont have children. so you dont have a point.
Just being me- what i originally said was that people make mistakes. that was a general statement.
By George and Jesus
August 22, 2005 02:44 PM | Link to this
Qustions,
I never said being gay was worse than having cancer. But I wondered why you would suggest that another’s child would be gay? Maybe because Heather is devout, so what an ironic hoot it would be if her son was gay and she has to deal with it! That’s very sensitive and caring!
And why would I not care what others think? Sounds like your guilty of making a stereotype - what would your liberal friends think?
By Questions
August 22, 2005 02:46 PM | Link to this
Sorry Heather, will keep my thoughts about it to myself.
By Jack
August 22, 2005 02:46 PM | Link to this
Ripping someones child is lower than low. Scum you are. Sorry Renee, Questions deserves it.
By Renee
August 22, 2005 02:47 PM | Link to this
The difference is that a woman takes greater risks when engaging in sexual behavior, therefore should be more responsible.
WHAT??? That is almost laughable. If anything, both should be equally responsible and how does a woman takes a greater risk? WHAT??? HOW SEXIST. What’s said is people actually believe that.
By Questions
August 22, 2005 02:48 PM | Link to this
George and Jesus - welcome to the real world.
By ANGIE
August 22, 2005 02:49 PM | Link to this
Briefly, Boscoe, I read all of the verses you gave me but not one of them backed up the idea of purgatory or praying to dead saints. Besides your catholic books and catechisms can you show me in the bible where it mentions purgatory or praying to saints? Thanks.
P.S. It IS a BIG deal-when you’re talking about the difference between following Christ & God’s word verses following a church that put millions of Christians to death during the inquisition. It hasn’t changed it’s view of these people (people like me)& would do the same thing again if given the power. In Revelation, the city on seven hills is Rome and the Roman Catholic Church is the
apostate church called “Mystery Babylon”. The church that adopted the pagan sun worship symbols, rituals and goddess worship. This fact makes it a VERY BIG DEAL!
By Questions
August 22, 2005 02:50 PM | Link to this
it was actually a SERIOUS question. probably missed by many on here.
By Just Being Me
August 22, 2005 02:50 PM | Link to this
GEORGE, are you saying that straight A students who know Christ don’t slip up and sin every now and again?
I know of way too many women who “knew Christ” and got pregnant out of wedlock… way too many.
Heck. I know Christ. And, the only thing that kept me from getting pregnant was grace & mercy.
By Heather
August 22, 2005 02:50 PM | Link to this
Thanks, guys.
By Renee
August 22, 2005 02:50 PM | Link to this
No Jack, you are right.
By Raylene
August 22, 2005 02:51 PM | Link to this
i would prefer to not be refered to as a slut. i am far from it. and MIT, my childs father and i are married. and he is taking care of his son. so stop assuming things about people.
questions- i think that you should think before you open your mouth. how heather raises her son has nothing to do with whether he becomes gay or not. and having met the child myself, it is highly doubtful that he will be.
By SteveSC
August 22, 2005 02:53 PM | Link to this
Any course material that purports to teach “the Bible as history” or “the Bible as literature” should be reviewed by an interdenominational committee of scholars. But if you seriously want to teach the Bible, just start off with mandatory reading of Jaroslav Pelikan’s book WHOSE BIBLE IS IT? I’ve been reading the Bible for 50 years and this book has greatly added to my knowledge.
By Randy
August 22, 2005 02:54 PM | Link to this
I do agree with some of what Diane says this week, Christianity can only be felt by the heart.
By Protective Parent
August 22, 2005 02:54 PM | Link to this
Let’s look at the bigger picture: Do we have THOUSANDS of teachers that have the skills and degrees to have an open religious discussion with my child or your children? SCARY THOUGHT HUH?
I would appreciate you all letting me and my family teach and guide our child into his faith and his own path. My tax dollars don’t need to be spent teaching teachers how to teach religion in our schools.
By George and Jesus
August 22, 2005 02:57 PM | Link to this
Renee,
I assume you would agree that different actions require different levels of precaution based on the outcome. The higher the chance of a negative consequence the more careful you are to avoid it. A person will act differently when pointing a real firearm at someone, then when pointing a water pistol - because their is a gross difference in the consequence if either is fired. You might drive more carefully with a loved one then by yourself because you value their life and are responsible for them. The point - men cannot get pregnant, therefore they’re phsical consequence for getting someone preganat isn’t the same consequence for the female who is pregnant. Those who bear the greater consequence should be more responsible. It’s not sexist its biology!
By taboga
August 22, 2005 02:58 PM | Link to this
WHAT??? That is almost laughable. If anything, both should be equally responsible and how does a woman takes a greater risk? WHAT??? HOW SEXIST. What’s said is people actually believe that.
That statement there - is what is at the core of so many problems we have.
It doesn’t matter that it should be “equally responsible”. And “sexist” has nothing to do with it.
It is a fact of life: Women are the one’s who get pregnant. Whether women like it or not, think it’s fair or not, whether you think it’s sexist or not — women are the ones who are going to have to take the responsibility when it comes to getting pregnant - because they are the ones who are going to be effected by it.
It can’t be, won’t be and won’t work any other way! You can scream about how “unfair” it is until the cows home - but it’s not going to change anything!
By Bruce
August 22, 2005 02:58 PM | Link to this
We can be very evil on this blog towards each other at times but no one has ever stooped to smacking a child in the face. Questions that was wrong, dead wrong.
By mit
August 22, 2005 02:59 PM | Link to this
From where I came from, HS in the 1990’s (which I might add to some of your posts, that HS pregenancy has continued to drop since the 1990’s), all the females having babies were bonafide sluts. I was friends with them as people but I never once touched or dated one for a reason. The guys who were the dads (should take the responsibility in my eyes, but didn’t) were preyed upon, 100% preyed upon (not that it was hard or anything). but that’s just my experience. I know one girl who was the victim, when the guy ran off in less than 6 months. She was not a slut by definition. but that’s one in the many I knew.
By Randy
August 22, 2005 03:00 PM | Link to this
People who don’t know Jesus as their lord and savior, get irritated sometimes when we Christians bring up the subject of Jesus. I have two comments on that, one, if it were not real and important, it would not bother you. People could mention Buddah, etc and they would have no effect on me. 2nd, Some of you want us Christians to ignore your fate, well if you saw a person blindfolded walking towards a cliff, would you try to stop them???? Same difference!!!
By George and Jesus
August 22, 2005 03:02 PM | Link to this
Questions, I’m a realist who does live in the real world. - And since we are talking about the real world please help me explain to Renee that in the REAL WORLD women get pregnant and left to be single moms by irresponsible men. So even if ideologically both parties are just as responsible for producing a child, pragmatism suggest women need to be more careful and responsible since they will be left “holding the bag.”
By Ben
August 22, 2005 03:04 PM | Link to this
By the way MIT, how many college graduates walk in to $100 K jobs after graduation? Are you saying they don’t have to climb the ladder because of their papers?
By Just Being Me
August 22, 2005 03:05 PM | Link to this
RAYLENE - I understood perfectly what you originally said. I just don’t believe that “people make mistakes” is a good explanation or excuse for teen pregnancy. I happen to believe that a vast majority of pregnant teens didn’t make a mistake, but exercised bad judgment, irresponsibility, and immaturity.
By Heather
August 22, 2005 03:05 PM | Link to this
The thing is, if my child were to tell me one day that he was gay, I would love him anyway. I spent 5 years in a lesbian relationship. It was very destructive to me and all of the relationships in my life. The biggest destruction however, was my relationship with my dad. He disowned me. I was no longer allowed in his house and neither was my son. I cried buckets of tears over that one. I would never do that to my child.
My son is fully aware of the gay issues. Even at the age of 9 he understands these things. He has met plenty of gay people. When I told him that his grandfather and I were making up and starting over he wanted to know what had changed. At that time I told him the reason we had not seen him was because he disapproved of my relationship. My 9 year old son told me that it was my choice and that his grandfather was wrong to not talk to me because of it.
So if he told me he was gay, I would love him. I would worry about how much he would suffer for having made the decision to act on those feelings but I would still love him. Would I try and persuade him to do something different, yes, but I would love him.
By George and Jesus
August 22, 2005 03:07 PM | Link to this
Just being me - I seriously doubt you “know” Christ. You’re probably confusing this with knowing of him - it’s a matter of syntax. Try taking responsibility for yourself and you won’t have to rely on “grace and mercy.”
By mit
August 22, 2005 03:12 PM | Link to this
raylene, just because you may be an exception doesn’t mean everyone else is too. I am glad your husband took the responibility, shake his hand for me. but you know that your situation is a rare occurance. I never once called you a slut, all my posts were referring to people I know and people you know is not MY point, so I still have one.
my point is college is better than HS in every aspect. are you going to tell your child that college is not an option and he should be happy with a HS diploma? doubtful. Are you going to tell your child its ok to have sex because there are daycares at school? doubtful.
you will probably tell your child to do the exact opposite from what you did, just like all parents do.
By taboga
August 22, 2005 03:12 PM | Link to this
Everyone tries to desperately avoid it, but at some point the reality of it all will need to set in: Public Schools are a tremendous failure!
The sooner we wipe the slate clean and start over - the further ahead of the game we’ll be!
By Argy
August 22, 2005 03:17 PM | Link to this
Dear George and Jesus,
I think you ought to start praying hard, because lozen, kimberly, TT, and Whiley are about to drop some feminine fury on your petoot! Lock the doors and bar the windows!
By Alicia
August 22, 2005 03:21 PM | Link to this
Ms. Feldhahn’s last statement: “…allowed to educate our kids about this ultra-important book” puzzles me a bit. Ultra-important how? As the delusional ramblings of a death-worshipping Bronze Age culture? As the feeble rationalizer of so much irrational stupidity in our own culture? If someone could give me just ONE GOOD REASON as to why this book and all its underlying cultural baggage is in the least worthy of the title ‘important’, then let me at it: tell me why. And don’t waste my time and yours with ‘Left Behind’ rhetoric and rapturous ruminations.
By mit
August 22, 2005 03:22 PM | Link to this
raylene,
the slut high school idea was only a joke. I know there are exceptions to the rule like yourself, I don’t believe that it should be looked upon as everyone is the exception. what’s wrong with the daycares that already exist. daycares in school is a bad idea to me.
By Boscoe
August 22, 2005 03:24 PM | Link to this
Roman Catholic Church is the apostate church called “Mystery Babylonâ€?. The church that adopted the pagan sun worship symbols, rituals and goddess worship. This fact makes it a VERY BIG DEAL!-Angie, please just provide me the proof of this in anyway that I haven’t already refuted and I’ll be convinced.
By Bruce
August 22, 2005 03:27 PM | Link to this
I don’t know why so many are disagreeing with teaching the Bible in school. I mean given the state of our education system in this country do you really think our children will learn anything, they aren’t doing too good a job with the 3 R’s.
The only way we will ever fix education is to remove the federal and state government altogether. Give the power back to the local level.
By Amazed (Independent Woman)
August 22, 2005 03:34 PM | Link to this
George and Jesus - if you know “Christ” you would not refer to young ladies, as sluts. God does not like ugly and I’m not referring to your looks.
To be a christian you must: Think, Act and Speak as one.
Tobago - you must be a “Plant” to keep the discussion going every week with your comments. How much is Shaunti paying you?
By LB
August 22, 2005 03:35 PM | Link to this
Yes, teach it, as long as other religions are taught, also. What will be especially interesting is that when compared side-by-side with other religions, a lot of similarities come out. Most religions, including Norse, Greco-Roman, Babylonian, Egyptian, and Christian, all had a story of a being who was half-god/half-man who was persecuted in one form or another, but who set out to help humans. There are Sumerian/Babylonian writings of an all-encompassing flood that are thousands of years older than the biblical accounts of Noah. That this person ALSO took on animals, etc to save them. There ARE many inconsistencies in the bible, as well as deep inconsistencies in practice. Why do Baptists eschew alcohol, when the bible seemed in favor of it? Why do Christians and Jews not practice polygamy? Why do preachers molest children, hire hookers, steal from their parishoners and live like wealthy kings? Why do so many preachers DEMAND public prayer, when the teachings of the christian savior specifically disavowed this practice? See, these things influence our daily life today. They should be taught and discussed. In fact, I agree that given ALL the information, the average student will probably reject christianity for the mental illness that it is. Especially seeing that some of it appears to have been plagiarized form earlier religions.
By taboga
August 22, 2005 03:43 PM | Link to this
Tobago - you must be a “Plant� to keep the discussion going every week with your comments. How much is Shaunti paying you?
It’s none of your business.
By Amazed (Independent Woman)
August 22, 2005 03:45 PM | Link to this
By taboga
August 22, 2005 02:58 PM | Link to this That statement there - is what is at the core of so many problems we have.
It doesn’t matter that it should be “equally responsible�. And “sexist� has nothing to do with it.
It is a fact of life: Women are the one’s who get pregnant. Whether women like it or not, think it’s fair or not, whether you think it’s sexist or not � women are the ones who are going to have to take the responsibility when it comes to getting pregnant - because they are the ones who are going to be effected by it.
It can’t be, won’t be and won’t work any other way! You can scream about how “unfair� it is until the cows home - but it’s not going to change anything!
Tobago - you finally got it! Abortion is the Choice that should be allowed as an option for women. Since women are the ones who will be emotionally, financially and etc… for the child, especially if the father CHOOSES NOT TO PARTICIPATE.
By Just Being Me
August 22, 2005 03:46 PM | Link to this
GEORGE, you have issues way deeper than what I’m equipped to handle, dear. You can doubt until Jesus returns, and I don’t have to prove my relationship with Christ to you.
I feel badly for you if you believe that people who truly know Christ don’t err or sin. If you really believe that, YOU, my brother, have no idea who Jesus really is.
As I said in last week’s blog, what scares me is that Christians are so comfortable being judgmental and no longer find it necessary to even TRY to be like Christ. Being like him means more than just know the Bible. It means talking like Him, acting like Him, behaving like Him, loving like Him. As I always say: if you can’t love like Him, you don’t live like Him.
God Bless You.
By Raylene
August 22, 2005 03:49 PM | Link to this
daycares are very expensive. a student trying to go to school full time couldnt possibly find a job that would enable them to afford regular daycare. and i never said i wanted one in every school. i just said that i am glad that the high school i went to offered it. it was actually a daycare for the parents of high school students who had younger children also, and so many kids were having kids that they offered it to them also. they had a program that made it possible for young parents to complete high school.
By George and Jesus
August 22, 2005 03:50 PM | Link to this
Amazed,
I was simply using the term others had selected earlier, however we can call them “chastity-challenged individuals” if it will appease you.
Argy - As a great leader once said, “Bring’em on!”
By taboga
August 22, 2005 03:51 PM | Link to this
Tobago - you finally got it! Abortion is the Choice that should be allowed as an option for women. Since women are the ones who will be emotionally, financially and etc… for the child, especially if the father CHOOSES NOT TO PARTICIPATE.
Yes. And if the woman “chooses” to have the child - she can “choose” to support it.
By D
August 22, 2005 03:53 PM | Link to this
Angie, I just wanted to ask one question. How tolerant are you of others who believe in something different? I do NOT like the fact that you seem to hate others who do not agree with you. I do not want religion in public schools. The get federal funds and really cannot teach religion. If you want children to learn about religion, go do bible studies, send your children to private religous schools. Please, don’t push your beliefs on me.
By mit
August 22, 2005 03:54 PM | Link to this
ben, the 100k/yr was just a smug remark. I know its hard to find a job with a college degree and you still have to climb the ladder.
my point was just and only just a college education is better for the individual than just HS only. diploma or not. the education makes for a more well rounded individual and now I can’t remember what we were originally talking about and I am not going back through the posts. so no matter how old you are, go take some college courses for the betterment of oneself.
money/yr doesn’t equal happiness but college is better than hs and hs daycares are pointless with daycares already available outside the school. were my points in my endless rambles. just those 3.
By George and Jesus
August 22, 2005 03:58 PM | Link to this
Just being me,
We all have issues and I’m not arrogant enought to believe I don’t sin or that I truly know Christ, nor have I condemned anyone to damnation or claimed to be their eternal judge.
By Renee
August 22, 2005 04:00 PM | Link to this
That’s the problem with society. It’s assumed that because a female has the child she should then take responsibility and a lot of that has to do with motherly instinct. Now if the female had the child and promptly took it to dad’s house and abandoned it then that would be looked upon as wrong but I think it would be fair. As soon as she “downloads” the child, straight to dad’s.
It doesn’t matter if the female gives birth. She didn’t impregnate herself and she didn’t get herself into the situation. It took two, it always takes two.
Just as girls should be taught to keep their legs closed, boys should be taught to keep their pants up.
Mit This thing with boys being preyed upon and victimized is baloney. While this boy gets an erection and is trying to get off, he is a victim? This unsuspecting boy who was not trying nor thinking about sex was preyed upon and victimized? NO, both parties are guilty, they BOTH wanted to do it and they BOTH are responsible. Neither the male or the female are victims. They know what can and does happen from unprotected sex.
By Whiley
August 22, 2005 04:00 PM | Link to this
Public schools aren’t failing. They’re fine. It’s PARENTS that are failing. Most parents aren’t even there when they ARE THERE in the home. They don’t even know what courses their kids are taking. They are completely shocked to find out Jr. is disrupting classrooms & disrespecting teachers, not doing homework, not even bringing his books to class.
By Amazed (Independent Woman)
August 22, 2005 04:06 PM | Link to this
By taboga
August 22, 2005 03:51 PM | Link to this
Yes. And if the woman “chooses� to have the child - she can “choose� to support it.
Tabogo - There are thousands of women in this state who do so everyday and I am one of them. There aren’t any statistics for my category, because we’re not on welfare.
And since you feel that way about “Child Support”, I expect your support for the Pro-Choice Movement. I also would like you to rally those men, who don’t want to pay child support to show support for the movement as well.
PEACE…..
By Heather
August 22, 2005 04:08 PM | Link to this
It seems to me that all we ever end up talking about is sex. This weeks topic was religious education in schools and somehow we got on the topic of teenage sex.
By mit
August 22, 2005 04:09 PM | Link to this
yeah, daycare isn’t cheap but if you are a HS student with a child then your parents and the boys’ parents will have to cough it up. you came from a hs with one, i came from one without one. I just can’t imagine going to a hs with one other than offsite daycare where the teacher’s keep their kids. you had a daycare in your school? that’s the part I oppose. too much distraction for kids that are getting an inadequate education anyway. It seems to be not as bad today either. my sister was 4 yrs behind me and didn’t know one person with a child in hs. I don’t know what it was about the 90’s but it seemed like all at once just bam, kids were having kids at an alarming rate. it could have just been the lean on me type movies at the time too. weren’t there a lot of those movie types coming out around then. just blame it on movies and tv. oh and video games now. nah, but the rates seem to have been going down after I left.
By Whiley
August 22, 2005 04:14 PM | Link to this
“And if the woman “choosesâ€? to have the child - she can “chooseâ€? to support it.”
Yes men can’t be responsible for any sperm they release at any time. That’s logical.
Most women do all the “supporting”. Including raising. So spare me the injustice of forced fatherhood whine.
By Renee
August 22, 2005 04:14 PM | Link to this
Raylene, I think that it is very good that there were resources available that allowed you to get ahead in life. Having said that I think it is a very bad idea to put daycares in high schools. I think the responsibility should truly be placed back where it belongs. If these kids are unable to finish high school due to the decisions that they made, then that is their fault. Too many resources are made available therefore many teenagers do not actually have any consequences. If they get pregnant, and their life is only minimally changed, why wouldn’t they do it again. And their kids do it, and so on and so on.
By George and Jesus
August 22, 2005 04:16 PM | Link to this
Renee,
You still don’t get it. There is something called motherly instinct - it exists because they bear children! Look at most species of animals - the mother rears the young; often times protecting them from the father who sired them. Come out of the bubble - women bear children, and are the caregivers. Men providers; woman bear children - this is how early man existed. It isn’t an option its biologically programmed whether men-haters in 2005 think it’s fair or not. Last week no one had a problem when gay people said it was biological and they didn’t choose it. But say that genders have biological programming and get attacked by feminists, who are probably gay.
By taboga
August 22, 2005 04:19 PM | Link to this
Whiley,
Are you aware that many years ago parents; who could not read or write themselves, would send their kids off to school for an education?
Many parents couldn’t even speak english - yet their kids got an education.
The excuse of “parental non-involvement” is just that - an excuse.
By Raylene
August 22, 2005 04:20 PM | Link to this
all i said was that my school had one. i never used it. didnt have to. and mit you have to remember that a lot of parents dont support their kids when it comes to teenage pregnancy. parents kick their kids out, they dont try and help them finish school.
By mit
August 22, 2005 04:23 PM | Link to this
raylene,
you calling me a liar?
i knew what was going down with those girls. the boys of them were preyed upon, but not victimized (he was not raped). those guys would not have known who these girls were if it had not been for the girls who went after them. I know it takes two but these girls were sluts and not the exception. these were not boyfriends. they were boys from other schools they preyed upon while walking around the track of the football field on friday night games. that’s how they were and that’s how they got pregnant. That was the behavior of hs moms i saw in hs and adding a daycare for them at school is not my idea of a good one.
By SnottyNozeBrat
August 22, 2005 04:28 PM | Link to this
Wow! What fun to talk about religion.
Boscoe, honey, I don’t think Angie is here.
Renee - GO GET ‘EM TIGER! Yeah, I’m still waiting to see how women have to have more of the responsibility for teen sex than guys. Other than that’s the way life is - dump it all on the women. Yes, but then the topic is religion! har har…. stop me..
Jennifer. Please. If religion could be equated with teaching morals, which it is for “The Book” anyway…. and you don’t want that. I think that is your right. I am indeed as afraid of having religious people in power over me as I am of greedy filthy politicians in america, the taliban or business men… or pretty much any of them… But if we are not going to have any other rule over ourselves than ourselves… I DO NOT need to pay for daycare for working mothers, for non-working mothers, for teenagers heated up by our modern media or anybody but myself. We should be paying the price for our own behaviour not pawning the resonsibility of on anyone else for our stupidity. Or prehaps Renee can find a way to make the stupid teen guys pay for their mistakes, not just the girls. Teen daycare. You have to be kidding. Your choice, your responsibility.
Teen sex and God. hum. what was this blog about?
By Raylene
August 22, 2005 04:28 PM | Link to this
i never said you were a liar. and i never said that it was a good idea. words are getting put into my mouth. that is BS. but not every girl that gets pregnant is a slut. and not every girl that gets pregnant is trying to. i just said that i liked that my hs had one, simply because most of the girls that had babies were not sluts. and can i point out what i said earlier. the daycare was started for parents of students that also had young children it has been there since the school was built.
By mit
August 22, 2005 04:30 PM | Link to this
I haven’t known anyone kicked out or forced from hs because of a pregnancy so I can’t comment on that. I am sure there are parents out there that would do such a thing but they shouldn’t and would not be on the cover of good parenting magazine. probably on shaunti’s new magazine ‘what we really want to do’ out now at your local newstand.
By Heather
August 22, 2005 04:36 PM | Link to this
Raylene, was the daycare free for students or did someone have to pay to keep them there?
By mit
August 22, 2005 04:36 PM | Link to this
I am still waiting on boscoe’s new book, coming late fall of 2005.
‘I’m right, so shut up: a collection of posts’
By Raylene
August 22, 2005 04:36 PM | Link to this
I NEVER SAID THAT I WANTED IT TO BE IN EVERY SCHOOL. NEVER SAID THAT IT WAS A GOOD IDEA. AND I DONT APPRECIATE BEING BASHED FOR BEING A YOUNG MOTHER. I TOOK CARE OF MY RESPONSIBILITY! I DONT NEED ANY OF YOU TELLING ME OTHER WISE, OR PUTTING WORDS INTO MY MOUTH.
By SnottyNozeBrat
August 22, 2005 04:37 PM | Link to this
Dear George and Jesus
Could you please develop a program where these men - providers will actually provide? See, my taxes are getting a little out of hand, and quite frankly I don’t see it as my responsibility. See, my “provider” was fond of snorting our “provision” up his nose. So i really have to work my @$$ off just to TRY to keep my head above the water. I don’t think I now have to pay for high school daycare. Of course kids are having sex in middle school and elementary school now - uh, hello parents. So, yes the girls should be raising them so they aren’t laying around the afternoons getting pregnant, and the guys should be providing for them, but something seems to be broken. Could you work on those “providers”, please?
I would be very very grateful.
By taboga
August 22, 2005 04:37 PM | Link to this
Yes men can’t be responsible for any sperm they release at any time. That’s logical.
Whiley,
It is you women who say that men have no say in what’s inside your body. So we can only conclude that men are not responsible for anything in that regard.
By Alicia
August 22, 2005 04:37 PM | Link to this
“People who don’t know Jesus as their lord and savior, get irritated sometimes when we Christians bring up the subject of Jesus.” Wow. A textbook example of the rampant psychosis these people live under. Your personal savior? Oh, so you and a handful of others are ‘chosen’ and protected by a supernatural entity? Or evem better, Jesus talks into your ear while you’re in the bathroom? That’s called schizophrenia, my friend. if it were not real and important, it would not bother you. I congratulate you. Faulty logic at its best. There is no correlation between the one statement and the other IE it being real & important therefore bothering one. There are too many reasons to count, ranging from the frivolous (they annoy me the way mosquitoes do) to the serious, as to why I dislike all this religious brouhaha. And I am sure that anyone who even got a C in critical thinking (speaking of things which should be taught in schoiols…) can understand how none of these reasons have ANYTHING to do with the so-called legitimacy of your position. 2nd, Some of you want us Christians to ignore your fate, well if you saw a person blindfolded walking towards a cliff, would you try to stop them???? Same difference!!! You outdo even yourself, my friend. Quite an accomplishment.
By Just Being Me
August 22, 2005 04:39 PM | Link to this
HEATHER - Scroll back up to see how it started.
GEORGE - You were actually QUITE judgmental when you said that you seriously doubt I really know Christ. You don’t have to “claim to be” an “eternal judge” in order to be judgmental.
And, your “we all have issues” is a far cry from your implication that anyone who knows Christ won’t get pregnant as an unmarried teen.
By Heather
August 22, 2005 04:45 PM | Link to this
We have failed our children as a society. All anyone has to do is read this blog to agree with me.
By Raylene
August 22, 2005 04:46 PM | Link to this
heather- the daycare was originally for “old” parents who had teens and younger children. they did have to pay for it, it was like a regular daycare. just more convenient for the parents, because the older sibling could take them home. it ended up also being for the students, i dont know if the student parents paid or not.
By Renee
August 22, 2005 04:47 PM | Link to this
lol @ mit. Not bashing you Raylene, just gave my opinion, not of you, of the daycare.
By mit
August 22, 2005 04:49 PM | Link to this
HEY LOOK,
I CAN WRITE BIG TOO.
Raylene’s new book coming summer 2006.
‘I didn’t say that. Oh, wait maybe I did’
By blablabla
August 22, 2005 04:50 PM | Link to this
This week’s topic is very boring. I don’t have a problem with religious electives being taught in school, but it seems as though a number of people are confused about the “establishment” of religion. Just because an elective Christian course is taught in school does not require the school to also offer elective classes on a whole host of other religions. It merely has to provide the same opportunity to other religious groups to have an elective taught in school. That’s a big difference. If the school were to offer a Christian elective and then refuse to offer an Islamic elective when approached by Muslims, the school would be discriminating. That would be unconstitutional as the school is establishing religion. But simply offering a Christian elective, by itself, is not being discriminatory or establishing religion.
All that said, why public schools would be using scarce resources on religious education when such poor results are being achieved in so many other subjects and fields of study is beyond me.
And whoever it was who said that public schools aren’t a failure need to examine what their definition of success is.
Wake me up when the next topic comes along.
By Heather
August 22, 2005 04:52 PM | Link to this
Tomorrow lets get completely off topic again and talk about smoking laws and restrictions. I say all smokers should be taken to concentration camps so the rest of us can breathe easier.
By mit
August 22, 2005 04:54 PM | Link to this
no bashing of you raylene. the daycare idea was just my opinion i didn’t remember if it was you who said it was a good idea or not. don’t be mad, smile its just a blog. i have a book title for you too, just a joke. i have nothing against boscoe either and that guy is crazy.
By Raylene
August 22, 2005 04:54 PM | Link to this
until you have been through what i have been through, you have no damn right to judge me. and i wasnt doing that. I didn’t say that. Oh, wait maybe I did’
By mit
August 22, 2005 04:57 PM | Link to this
blablabla,
set your own alarm. the topic changes hourly.
By taboga
August 22, 2005 05:00 PM | Link to this
If I understood Raylene correctly: At her school, parents could have a child attending school, a child in daycare at the school and if their child attending school gave birth, they could have a grandchild in the daycare as well…?
We’ve come a long way.
By Charlotte
August 22, 2005 05:01 PM | Link to this
I had an abortion three years ago. I can truely say I have never regretted it. I was on the pill for year and half and it failed. I was not about to be a victim of circumstance. I was two years from graduating from college. I really resent it when other people make smug judgements about women like me who are caught in bad circumstances. I don’t want to be a single parent, struggling alone. I know a few single parent mothers who secretly feel resentful of their children. The fathers of these children are no where to be found. One of the “fathers” owe 30,000 dollars in back childsupport. He has never sent as much as a birthday card or Christmas card for his son, and he’s eight years old. Don’t misunderstand me. Women should take every precaution to prevent an unwanted pregnancy. I just don’t think women should be so happy about giving up their entire lives to raise a child alone. Noone expects anything out of absentee fathers. I have never shared this with my mother, or sister. They are prolife. But they still don’t approve of single parenting. All prolifers care about is that the child is born they don’t care about what happens to these children after that.
By Whiley
August 22, 2005 05:24 PM | Link to this
Why are we talking about this again? You shouldn’t have any religious studies. Shouldn’t even consider it CONSIDERING PE classes are getting cut. Soon all children will be fat, lazy, can’t read, & grow up to have completely dysfunctional sex lives due to weird religious teachers damning them all to hell. And if you don’t want your kids having sex, SUPERVISE THEM & STOP COMPLAINING SO MUCH. THERE, PROBLEM SOLVED!
By Whiley
August 22, 2005 05:30 PM | Link to this
“Are you aware that many years ago parents; who could not read or write themselves, would send their kids off to school for an education?”
We are talking about TODAY ! COMPLETELY different than many years ago. Duh.
Are you aware not everybody had inside toilets either?
By Brian Curtis
August 23, 2005 07:36 AM | Link to this
quote: “if you saw a person blindfolded walking towards a cliff, would you try to stop them???? Same difference!!!”
That’s why we keep trying to teach you, Randy. You’re heading off a cliff of superstition and ignorance, and we’re trying to show you how to think for yourself before it’s too late.
By the way… given how many fundamentalists are bothered by the idea of evolution, that must mean it’s true, right? Because if it weren’t true, you wouldn’t argue so hard against it. (In reference to your “Jesus must be real or non-Christians wouldn’t be so upset about having him crammed down their throats and enshrined in law” argument.)
By taboga
August 23, 2005 07:42 AM | Link to this
We are talking about TODAY ! COMPLETELY different than many years ago.
Yes, I agree, we are talking about TODAY! And it is unfortunate that we have so many in our society TODAY that can’t see how completely dumbed-down we have gotten! And people who will look around and see the extraordinarily pitiful results from our Public Schools and conclude that it is the fault of parents!
By Ben
August 23, 2005 07:57 AM | Link to this
The problem with “TODAY” is people are looking for the easy way out, or the best excuse. It’s far easier to blame something or someone else instead of taking responsibility.
Our public schools may not be the best, but that is no excuse for the plight of today’s youth. Parents are partially to blame, but there is no excuse for a teenager who falls through the cracks. Regardless of your upbringing, people know right from wrong, whether parents are there or not, or whether parents give a damn.
By Ben
August 23, 2005 08:05 AM | Link to this
Here’s a bit for the Christians … Pat Robertson said we should assassinate Chavez because he talks bad about GW, and the United States. Good ole’ Christianity!
By Scalia
August 23, 2005 08:10 AM | Link to this
Our society is dumbed down. But part of the blame resides with the parent. If you want to send your kid to school with no skills (counting, reading, writing,or potty trained), what do you expect from teachers? They have to play catch-up with your child, and teach them these basic skills. At times, the kids come to school with no discipline or structure in their lives because most of the time the kids were in front of the television.
As for the schools, everything has to be taught to the test. Critical thinking is not taught. It would be the same thing with Bible courses. The children would be taught to accept what they read, and not to question it.
If we look at society as whole, people aren’t taught to question things. People believe that what they hear on the radio, read in the newspapers, or read on the internet, is fact. The same way with textbooks. If it is written in the book, it must be true.
By Jennifer
August 23, 2005 08:13 AM | Link to this
We have failed our children in this society. I don”t advocate teen pregnancy either. I just happened to see ALOT of it when I was in High School. When in 5th grade I knew a girl who dropped out to have a baby - not a good thing. I am just looking at it a little realistically. Why is it so wrong to offer help when it can actually help. Why must we wait for people to be living on the streets or in shelters to give a care? There is no doubt that this is a problem that lies in the laps of parents. I strive daily to ensure that my daughter is on the straight and narrow. She will be more than me - which is what every parent wishes for. I just think we should take some care with these kids, in their formative years instead of waiting till the damage is done.
By Raylene
August 23, 2005 08:17 AM | Link to this
how did we get back on abortion? you for you for not feeling bad about it charlotte.no one said anything about it though.
By Jack
August 23, 2005 08:19 AM | Link to this
Darn, I missed the cat fight yesterday afternoon. My money is on Raylene. Toboga your slipping. A few of your posts lately have shown you have intelligence. You’re going to blow your cover.
By taboga
August 23, 2005 08:21 AM | Link to this
If we look at society as whole, people aren’t taught to question things. People believe that what they hear on the radio, read in the newspapers, or read on the internet, is fact. The same way with textbooks. If it is written in the book, it must be true.
Could not agree more.
By Raylene
August 23, 2005 08:23 AM | Link to this
lol thanks jack!
By Christy
August 23, 2005 08:24 AM | Link to this
This is not a ploy to slip the Bible in the classroom and wait for mass conversions. This is someone’s “grand idea” to help students learn more, have more exposure, and be better educated. But there is a problem.
The problem with including the Bible into the classroom is that the Bible is the only book I know of that claims to actually be alive (I Peter 1:23). Can any other book make this claim? Consequently, the study of this book cannot be handled the same as other history or literature. Other books may be interesting, true, and helpful, but they are not ALIVE.
Subsequent problems do exist, not the least of which is that such a special book could be handled by the unqualified, rendering blasphemy and contempt for the things of God Almighty.
Teachers, administrators, students: be careful. Approach this book with reverence and fear. It’s alive!
By Archie
August 23, 2005 08:25 AM | Link to this
Ben, I saw that report on Pat Robertson and he doesn’t represent the best of christianity. He is not a role model for me today and he never will be. I still ask the question what’s wrong with an elective course? Elective being the word to focus on.
By Bruce
August 23, 2005 08:26 AM | Link to this
I spent last night thinking on this subject and I think I have found peace with this.
Our (GA) school system is so far behind that adding anything new at this time, even a study of the Bible, would only hurt an already failing system. We have cut so many valuable programs from the course study, physcial education, music, arts, etc…. If we are going to put money into programs not centered around testing to mark improvement lets bring back PE, or music.
Studing the Bible would probably be better understood in the home and or church. This is not to say our kids should not be living the call God has called them too, sharing His word with those around you. (even in school)
By Raylene
August 23, 2005 08:26 AM | Link to this
that was a good up there…. good for you*
By Bruce
August 23, 2005 08:32 AM | Link to this
“Women should take every precaution to prevent an unwanted pregnancy.” I guess abstinence is not a precaution.
By Ken
August 23, 2005 08:36 AM | Link to this
Ben… Can you please provide a source for the Pat Robertson quote. That is a very bold statement and I know I would very much like to see it in it’s entire context, if he said it at all.
Brian… Thank you for clearly stating fundamentalists when you make any statement abour Christianity and evolution. Many people faith, including myself who graduated college in a science discipline, hold science in a very high regard. We simply see it as an explanation for the incredible world that God created. Even though I absolutely believe that God created the Earth, I can also reconcile many things with Darwin’s theory.
For example… Read the creation story in Genesis 1. The order in which God created the world mirrors how Darwin theorized life evolved on earth. That creation story was written several thousand years before Darwin cam along. Coincidence?
The one item I never hear any proponents of evoultion discuss, however, is: From where did Earth’s first living organism orginate?
By Whiley
August 23, 2005 08:38 AM | Link to this
MALES should also take every precaution to make sure their sperm doesn’t create problems for other people. Abstinence classes should be required for boys?
By Archie
August 23, 2005 08:44 AM | Link to this
Ken you can find information on Robertson on the cbs news website.
By Chilao
August 23, 2005 08:45 AM | Link to this
Ken - check out cnn or drudge for Robertson’s remarks.
By Ken
August 23, 2005 08:46 AM | Link to this
Whiley… You’re right. There were times when completely illiterate people sent their kids to school. The literacy of the parents is not the problem. The focus and the motivation of the parents is the problem.
Parents send their kids to school expecting the teachers to do EVERYTHING. Parents must be resonsible for enstilling into their children the importance of getting an education even if they cannot contribute substantially in the actual teaching of the curriculum.
If parents provide an environment where school is highly important, structure and discipline within the home and reinforcement for putting forth effort at school rather than video games and athletics, our children would be far better off. Also notice that NONE of those things have anything to do with socio-economic status. Rich parents, poor parents and everyone in between can do those things. Coming from a blue collar, lower middle-class family, I know it can be done.
By mit
August 23, 2005 08:47 AM | Link to this
If all the students get converted then they will not have to worry about tests and knowledge of other subjects like math and science (the devil’s subjects). They will have the only knowledge they will ever need for the rest of their lives. The knowledge of how to assassinate political leaders for letting extremist islam flourish in a non islamic country, oh and killing dumbya haters too. I can’t wait till we are all as dumb as Pat Robertson. Just learn to assassinate everyone the christian coalition doesn’t like, don’t worry about math.
By Chilao
August 23, 2005 08:48 AM | Link to this
if he said it at all
snort
I had to include the drudge report site, we know how leftist cnn and cbs are, after all.
By mit
August 23, 2005 08:50 AM | Link to this
the robertson story is on the home page of this website.
His country is “a launching pad for communist infiltration and Muslim extremism.”
“We don’t need another $200 billion war to get rid of one, you know, strong-arm dictator,” he continued. “It’s a whole lot easier to have some of the covert operatives do the job and then get it over with.”
“You know, I don’t know about this doctrine of assassination, but if he thinks we’re trying to assassinate him, I think that we really ought to go ahead and do it,” Robertson said. “It’s a whole lot cheaper than starting a war … and I don’t think any oil shipments will stop.”
I love that last sentence.
By Brian Curtis
August 23, 2005 09:01 AM | Link to this
Ken: Very true. I have no problem with Christians. Fundamentalists (who, after all, are the opposite of Christian) are another matter entirely.
Evolution has no more to say about the origin of life than atomic theory or Newton’s Laws do; they’re unrelated concepts. Evolution simply describes how life has changed over time, not where it came from.
By Raylene
August 23, 2005 09:02 AM | Link to this
ooooh assassination. sounds fun.
By Ken
August 23, 2005 09:10 AM | Link to this
Everyone is quoting him, then reading the parts they want to and restating implied ideas.
His quotes never said to assassinate Chavez b/c Chavez spoke badly about Bush. That was injected through the writing of the article. He said:
I don’t agree with him nor condone those actions, however, let’s at least get his quote and the context correct.
By mit
August 23, 2005 09:16 AM | Link to this
ken, darwins thoughts mirrored genesis because he was a christian. his wife wouldn’t allow him to publish his thoughts for almost 30 years or 20, can’t remember exactly but it was 10s of years.
darwins book is the Origin of Species. Not the Origin of Kingdoms like sooo many people fight like it is.
the origin of life debate will be settled with physics.
I like their answers alot better than because god said so.
By Jack
August 23, 2005 09:19 AM | Link to this
Let’s just send Jimmy Carter down there to straighten things out.
By mit
August 23, 2005 09:21 AM | Link to this
ken, all i pasted were his quotes. but if you think he likes the non-bush supporters you are mistaken.
Robertson has made controversial statements in the past. In October 2003, he suggested that the State Department be blown up with a nuclear device. He has also said that feminism encourages women to “kill their children, practice witchcraft, destroy capitalism and become lesbians.”
the guy’s a wacko. but you can defend him all you want.
By Chilao
August 23, 2005 09:26 AM | Link to this
wow, even FoxNews got the headline wrong: (must be that Fair-and-Balanced)
Robertson Calls for Chavez’s Assassination
probably takes care of my weekly visit to this blog, wonder what can happen in next Sunday’s paper.
By Raylene
August 23, 2005 09:54 AM | Link to this
that was the headline on CNN
By Ken
August 23, 2005 09:55 AM | Link to this
Brian… Fundamentalists are not OPPOSITE to Christians they are simply a different type. I believe many of the same things that they do, I simply do not practice them the same way.
The only additional item I would add about evolution is that it is in my opinion far more theoretical than say Newton’s Laws or even atomic theory.
One more thing… Nearly all Christians who disagree with evolution (at least the ones that I know) would probably be much more accomodating if it did not expressly say that humans evolved from something else. I absolutely believe we have changed over time (i.e. the humans from 6-7000 years ago probably would be different from humans of today) but I also believe that God explicitly created human beings.
By Mara
August 23, 2005 10:10 AM | Link to this
George-n-Jesus - your quote was ” There is something called motherly instinct - it exists because they bear children! Look at most species of animals - the mother rears the young; often times protecting them from the father who sired them.”…what about mommas that eat their young…?
Archie - whether it’s “elective” or not, it’ll still be paid for with public funds provided by the government, indicating that the government endorses christianity over other religeons, the teaching of which they do not fund.
By Raylene
August 23, 2005 10:13 AM | Link to this
yeah heather- i should be put in a concentration camp for smoking. yay for me!
By Brian Curtis
August 23, 2005 10:13 AM | Link to this
Sorry, but we don’t have to change science to fit specific religious views. Humans clearly DID evolve from other forms of life. If you want to preserve your belief that God was behind it, you can: apparently, he chose evolution to do so.
And I do believe fundies are the opposite of Christians. Fundamentalists are driven by hate, which Jesus preached against. They support death and violence, which Jesus wanted no part of. They don’t give a damn about anyone but themselves and temporal power, where Jesus admonished everyone to care for the less fortunate and await spiritual rewards in Heaven. They arrogantly claim the right to judge others, where Jesus said not to. And finally, they are utterly incapable of tolerance or compassion, which was Jesus’ primary mission on Earth.
If God and Satan truly exist, it’s pretty clear which side fundamentalists are on.
By Ken
August 23, 2005 10:16 AM | Link to this
Mit… I never said anything about which book Darwin wrote, I simply stated that his theory, at least the one I was taught in school, mirrored the Genesis story.
Also… Whether or not Robertson supports opponents of President Bush is neither here nor there. The quotes stated and printed do not support the statement that he wants Chavez assassinated for non-support of President Bush. He explicitly gives other reasons and for you or anyone else to IMPLY something else is grossly negligent. Now if there were other statements not printed in the news medias, I stand corrected.
By Ben
August 23, 2005 10:20 AM | Link to this
Ken - How did we take his quotes out of context? He said it!
By taboga
August 23, 2005 10:23 AM | Link to this
Jennifer,
The solution to the children’s stability: Ease up!
We are turning children into little convoluted robots who don’t know if they are coming or going. We have become obsessed with the teach, teach, teach… and have forgotten that they are just children!
We have adopted this nonsensical notion that the way to solve ALL the world’s problems is to: “Teach the children”.
But “teach” them what? Adults have done such a magnificient job of complicating and distorting even the simplest of things, but for some alien reason we think the children need to be taught that which we adults cannot even get our hands around.
And why are the children to be used as the guinea pigs? We can’t figure out what Sex is - so let’s dump it on the children. Racism - dump it on the children. You name it, whatever we grapple with - we dump it on the children. Now, here we are, fighting and battling over religion and evolution - so let’s dump that in the laps of the children!
And how on earth they are supposed to reconcile all these issues when they haven’t even lived long enough and seen enough from an adult vantage point? Well, the simple answer is: They can’t. They are just children.
It doesn’t stop there either. Because we spend so much time in the school system insanely trying to mold the children into someone’s ideal societal member - we are neglecting those things which are imperative to their future success: Reading, Writing and Mathematics. That’s right, the “3 R’s” - the things that people like to refer to as “old-fashioned”. The “3 R’s are important because they are the fundamentals. And with a sound understanding of the fundamentals - there is nothing that can’t be learned. But without those fundamentals - everything becomes extremely difficult to learn. Impossible in many cases.
And so the end result is, that we are devoting so much time to the teaching of every societal problem that comes down the pike; of which they cannot possibly understand at that young age, and neglecting those things which they desperately need to be taught! And the proof of this walks arounds us around us every single day!
And rather than recognizing this obvious fact, we have people that want to look all around the fringe to try and find out what the problems are with education and come up with these silly notions of “not enough money”, “classrooms are too crowded”, “not enough parental involvement”, on and on…
The problem is simple and so is the solution: Lay of the kids! Let them be kids! Teach them the things they need and quit using them for every societal issue that we have made a complete and total mess of!
By Mara
August 23, 2005 10:24 AM | Link to this
Ken would it make you more accepting of Darwinism were it to imply that everything except human beings evolved from less complex life forms? Just wondering if the normal Christian exceptionalism is really just a form of human exceptionalism. I hypothesize that since Christians refuse to believe that humans are no more than complex animals, they can’t accept the idea that all living things have equal worth. Therefore, even among humans, some must have more worth than others. Since they (christians) understand this, they must therefore be superior to those who do not accept this “truth”. But this is only my theory, of course.
By taboga
August 23, 2005 10:35 AM | Link to this
Let’s bring the Jews into the conversation and watch the crowd go silent…
As long as it is Christians that you all can go on and on about - you don’t have any problem whatsoever with anything you proclaim.
But let’s bring the Jews into it and watch how all you brave and righteous know-it-all’s - run for cover!
By Raylene
August 23, 2005 10:36 AM | Link to this
holy bad power ranger batman! some extra on the power rangers killed some ppl and now he is trying to say he starred on the show. liar!
By Heather
August 23, 2005 10:43 AM | Link to this
I like the Jews. Lets get some Jewish thoughts represented on this blog.
By Jack
August 23, 2005 10:45 AM | Link to this
Raylene. Did you hear what they did? They threw a couple off of their boat and sailed off letting them drown. His and his partner should be immediately removed from the gene pool.
By Questions
August 23, 2005 10:45 AM | Link to this
Why do Fundamentalists have nearly all their religious quotes from the Old Testament? Most I have met seem to be unaware of New Testament scripture. Anytime they are reading the Bible, it seems to be opened to the Old Testament, that I see as I walk up to them at lunch-time. One I work with has put the font on his web browser to something similiar to Hebrew in appearance, in English of course. I presume it is to allow himself to feel more Old Testament-ee. And he loves anything Jewish, God’s Chosen People and all that. Yet considers himself a Christian.
By taboga
August 23, 2005 10:50 AM | Link to this
And after we hear about how stupid and naive the Jews are for believing in their fairy tale - why don’t you religion bashers get heated-up on the Muslims while you’re at it?
The Jeopardy music is playing in the background…
By Archie
August 23, 2005 10:51 AM | Link to this
I know I am going to disagree with Taboga at some point but just based on what was said 10:23 am I have to agree with him. Even though government funds would be used to pay for a bible class it is still an elective class and the there will always be a disagreement about what your tax dollars are spent,always. Christianity is the favored religion in this country. The fact that every state agency is closed on Christmas day and the day after is an example of that. Heck some people don’t want their tax dollars going to public schools period and some want the tax money to be spent anywhere minorities don’t attend school. Some of this really plays into what Taboga says. I mean you don’t want your children playing or learning with those minority children. You don’t want children to learn to be productive citizens but they must be better than someone else’s children. Adults at least in my state don’t even fund every county’s education system evenly and thus we have a lawsuit going on. I can’t kick Taboga just for the sake of politics but I know we’ll disagree on something.
By Jennifer
August 23, 2005 10:58 AM | Link to this
mit - I have a 9 year old daughter with Juvenile Diabetes. She manages, with my direction, her diabetes herself and has awsome control. She has told me on several occassions that she will except no less than a B in any subject. She is in the 4th grade and is in the excellerated learning class. I stress to her that school is VERY important. She has to do well. She HAS to be able to take care of her diabetes in adulthood. My girl is still a little girl, just one with responsibility.
I am also the gueardian of my 16 year old brother in law. He has been with us for almost 3 years now. This kid runs away from home. Does drugs. Comes home drunk. He is the classic example of a child who has raised himself and can not understand that he is still a child. He went through a 6 month period were he was good and we allowed him to be a kid during the summer. Go to parties. Hang with girlfriends. The very first thing he does is come home drunk…then run away…. The list goes on and on.
I do understand what it is you are saying. Better than you realize. Remember, a lot of the decisions made today do affect them tomorrow. I want my kids to be kids…but responsible.
By Questions
August 23, 2005 11:04 AM | Link to this
Since the Muslims are 600 years behind, on the religion evolutionary scale, can you expect them to behave the way Christians did 600 years ago? That is, attempting to enforce their religious view on the rest of the world?
OR
since Islam is 600 years NEWER than Christianity, perhaps they are right when they feel they are the truer interpretation of anything related to God.
just questions.
By Jack
August 23, 2005 11:06 AM | Link to this
ZzzzzzzzZzzzzzzz….
By Ken
August 23, 2005 11:10 AM | Link to this
Ben… The original post (yours) on this board stated that Robertson called for the assassination of Chavex b/c Chavez spoke bad about President Bush and the United States which was NOT in the quotes I read. My post at 9:10 and 10:16 clearly state how the statements are out of context.
Mara… Darwinism… Evolution… Are you talking about the same thing…? If you agree with Darwinism or Evolution, do you also agree with Social Darwinism…? I suspect that you don’t. Why not…? Because humans are more compassionate and more caring about others in our society, or at least should be. That type of thinking and emotion separates us from the animals. How many other animals care for the elderly in the pack? How many other animals worry about anything other than eating and reproducing?
God created us far differently than the rest of the world. Are we similar in certain respects…? Absolutely. But in many others we are far, far different.
I do believe that humans are complex life forms, but life forms that were created by God, not by random chance. I do not believe ANYTHING on this Earth is here through some random process. I believe God created the world according to a very specific plan.
By Whiley
August 23, 2005 11:10 AM | Link to this
ROFL JACK ! hehehehehe
By Raylene
August 23, 2005 11:17 AM | Link to this
i know jack. but he wasnt even a power ranger. he is giving them a bad name
By Ruth
August 23, 2005 11:17 AM | Link to this
Uhh! Uhh! Uhh! Mercy! There is a lot more hatred in Atlanta than I was aware of! Kind of makes me want to teach the 2 greatest laws of God in school - To love God, and to love each other. No denoms, just love - anyone want to go after my jugular on that one? I believe that religion should be taught at home and in church, but basic “morals” - kindness, forgiveness, honesty, integrity, should be integrtated into every teaching forum universally. There’s my two cents worth - have at me!
By buildingbridges
August 23, 2005 11:32 AM | Link to this
I have read all of this and probably should listen to my instincts and stay out of it but one small comment made me change my mind.
“If all the students get converted then they will not have to worry about tests and knowledge of other subjects like math and science (the devil’s subjects).”
I’m a christian (sorry George & Jesus, you don’t have a friend here, I find your comments appalling and judgemental and its people with your mentality calling themselves christians that has made society come down so hard on christianity) I’m also an engineer which is a science degree in all aspects. Don’t get me wrong, I’m not misunderstanding your comment, it was meant as sarcasm, I’m just stating an opposing thought about it.
Also, I SO admire anyone that can take a potentially bad situation and turn it into a great family with a good education. The thing with HS deplomas, where they aren’t worth as much in the job field today as they used to be, it’s all about how you chose to use it. My cousin will probably never get a college degree but my goodness he is a WIZ on airplanes, computers and drafting programs. He chose his electives in HS for things that will further his career in those areas. I myself chose the electives in the math and science departments knowing that I was going to school for engineering, that would have done him no good if that path had been chosen for him instead of letting him have that choice. To say that all those with HS diplomas won’t have a good job, he’s now a commercial pilot.
I’ve read some great thoughts and some seriously messed up thoughts and the beauty of everything is that it’s ok to think how you like, it’s up to the person to tolerate these thoughts. It’s also up to christians to tolerate differences but I have known a lot of non-christians that are so much more tolerable than a lot of christians.
Oh and I also disagree with an elective course on the bible. Not that I have a personal problem with it in schools, but I think it belongs in the family and church.
One last comment. I’m a cancer survivor and the mere thought of wishing that one someone (joke or not) made my stomach turn. Bad things do happen to good people (including teen pregnancies).
By Ben
August 23, 2005 11:35 AM | Link to this
Okay Ken, he didn’t say because he speaks against GW. So does that make what he said any less ridiculous considering he is a leader of Christianity? I may have erroneously threw that in there, but that doesn’t diminish the fact that this nutjob makes Christians, in all their Holyness, look stupid.
By mit
August 23, 2005 11:35 AM | Link to this
jennifer, what are you referring to that i posted?
taboga, i believe all religions are counterproductive today. They may have keep order (and stupidity) over large numbers of people 1000s of years ago but they are not really needed today. Just like slaves in this country were forbidden to learn to read because of the fear they will be able to think for themselves and possibly know what is going on around them. Thus, ending slavery.
By DeltaX
August 23, 2005 11:37 AM | Link to this
I would be fine with teaching the bible, but we would have to censor all the R and X rated stuff! Would be nice to redline the bible for a switch from “christians” trying to censor general public information.
Or better yet:
We can be sure to teach about all Leviticus(sp? who cares;), holy wars, inquisitions, taxes, splinter groups to evade taxes, power, money…
Seems that this would educate kids early on that the book is a crock and the belief a hypocrisy.
By Heather
August 23, 2005 11:38 AM | Link to this
This has got to be the most boring topic yet. Shaunti, Diane, please give us something more interesting next week.
By Jack
August 23, 2005 11:46 AM | Link to this
Ruth was saying we should all love one another. Ok everyone, get her! LOL
By mit
August 23, 2005 11:51 AM | Link to this
bridgebuilder,
my comment of HS diplomas not producing good jobs was in err. as other posts show. my intended point was that my experience with people i know, HS only can be very difficult for new graduates, which you must admit, most do not know what/where they want to do/go with their lives. A HS only buddy of mine is doing very well. he took one semester of community college and said screw it. He is financially better off than most of the college grads i know. but he knew what he wanted to do. sorry for the mis-statement.
my new book is coming out pick it up! generalization: damnnit, i did it again
By ambergris
August 23, 2005 11:52 AM | Link to this
Boscoe give it up and stop trying to defend a corrupt church that is full of pedophiles
By ANGIE
August 23, 2005 11:56 AM | Link to this
Boscoe, I will get back to you by the end of the day. Busy at work. In fact, I’m leaving for a week’s vacation at the beach tomorrow. But I will answer you before the day’s over. After that, I’ll be gone from the forum for about 2 weeks due to my trip and the month’s end business at work. Talk to you later…Angie
By rh
August 23, 2005 12:00 PM | Link to this
You all really should consider that you are not nor will you ever be self made,self evolved. Every breath you take was appointed by GOD. I am sad to see how people hate GOD because they hate the thought of having to answer to anyone or having a conscience. Lovers of themselves and everything that is not Godly. High on thier own high thoughts. If they can’t figure it out to a science then it is not true. Yet they beleive every textbook and physicians report.You cannot drive up next to a person playing music or anything speaking of God, they hate God.If I were playing a rock,rap song they would maybe even smile. ( anything but God) They look at you as if they can just spit on you. I have seen this on a number of occassions. It is sad. Not suprising though because even thousands of years ago the bible spoke of these people Timothy 3 1 But understand this, that in the last days there will come times of stress. 2 For men will be lovers of self, lovers of money, proud, arrogant, abusive, disobedient to their parents, ungrateful, unholy, 3 inhuman, implacable, slanderers, profligates, fierce, haters of good, 4 treacherous, reckless, swollen with conceit, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God, 5 holding the form of religion but denying the power of it. Avoid such people. For among them are those who make their way into households and capture weak women, burdened with sins and swayed by various impulses, 7 who will listen to anybody and can never arrive at a knowledge of the truth. 16 All scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness, 17 that the man of God may be complete, equipped for every good work.
We rather our kids learn every thing else but God. Even if they Elect to search God for themselves. No man wants to owe his life or service to anyone but himself. Even though God gave you free will. You owe him something.
People Rebell like children. No one can tell me what I can do. Its my choice. I can run away, take drugs, hate, be perverted,and even kill its my choice.
There is a lot more I could say, but until you lay on your face before the Lord and seek him for your answers and not man, your text book, your mind, you would never understand God no matter how much you search. Because he knows that your heart is not pure all you do is seek to pervert and twist everythin that is Godly. Seek to find christian (which is just a name) and devour him because he made a bad choice of words and maybe his heart needs correcting. You never publish the miracles that have occured in peoples life. How they have been healed or delivered from addictions or sickness. Whay don’t you search that out? No your science does not support that.
Love fullfills the whole law. No one is perfect. At least some of us try to live to some degree of srevanthood to the creator. I know that you will try and demolish this entry for it is not perfect either but true. LET GOD ARISE AND HIS ENIMIES BE SCATTERED!!! All that I say is in Love and a spirit mercy for all people. Its not me against you. Its all about GOD. For anyone thinking of sending discord my way. SATAN THE LORD REBUKE THEE!!!
By mit
August 23, 2005 12:02 PM | Link to this
oh, builder of the bridges
how did my sarcasm change your mind from no bible class to have bible class? just curious
i took bible class in HS, its a waste of money. your taxes went to my sleep or skip period.
By buildingbridges
August 23, 2005 12:04 PM | Link to this
Mit - your right, I’m sorry, that wasn’t aimed at you although in retrospect it came off that way. :) I was trying to reiterate that some HS grads can make a great living for themselves if they chose to as did your friend which is awesome! College isn’t for everyone but I highly recommend it!
By mit
August 23, 2005 12:10 PM | Link to this
rh,
sounds like your scriptures are talking about politicians, i haven’t seen any on this blog.
By Argy
August 23, 2005 12:18 PM | Link to this
Ken,
Mara… Darwinism… Evolution… Are you talking about the same thing…? If you agree with Darwinism or Evolution, do you also agree with Social Darwinism…? I suspect that you don’t. Why not…?
Because biological evolution speaks to how things are/were, whereas social darwinism is a philosophy as to how things ought to be. Comparing the two is like saying that if you believe in gravity, it is morally right to throw people off buildings. Hey, gravity happens!
By buildingbridges
August 23, 2005 12:19 PM | Link to this
how did my sarcasm change your mind from no bible class to have bible class? just curious
Mit - it didn’t, I don’t think there should be bible classes, elective or not, in schools. It should stay in the family and church. I said that your sarcastic comment changed my mind about staying out of the conversation. I was just reading the blog out of shear boredom but because of you I decided to join in. For a bit atleast, unfortunately duty calls soon after lunch. :)
By Jack
August 23, 2005 12:34 PM | Link to this
Off the subject. One of my favorite days on this blog was when a guy from Sweden or Norway named Sven spoke about how sorry the Untied States was. Everyone on this blog left & right let him have it good. I was proud. We disagree with each other, but cut us down as a whole and watch out.
By Raylene
August 23, 2005 12:40 PM | Link to this
becoming pregnant as a teen is a bad thing that only happens to good people? um no. i’m sorry, but i have to disagree on that one. i am a good person and i dont think of my pregnancy as a bad thing that happened to me. “bad” people get pregnant as teens too. how can anyone think that way?
By Jennifer
August 23, 2005 12:48 PM | Link to this
So sorry mit - that was directed at taboga…busy at work here got a little fat finger…
Taboga obviously doesn’t have children in todays society or ‘Ease Up’ would not be any kind of solution. If I ‘ease up’ on my daughter, she will not learn how to care for her diabetes and she will die, eventually. If I ease up on the 16 year old, he is going to die taking drugs, break into some ones house, go to jail…. Eventaully, the decisions to do right for and by themselves is up to them. But as a parent it is my job to make them walk that right path - teach them moral rights and wrongs - hopefully guide them to a place that will be good for them. As a parent, I love my children. Both of them. If I have to be hard as nails on them to make them act right, then so be it. If my daughter hates me in the end because I wouldn’t let her have that 90 carb muffin or because I make her give her own shots…then so be it. At least I know in my heart that I have done ALL that I can so that they are prepared for this world.
rh- you sound a little like my paranoid schizophrenia aunt. Take a chill. It will be okay. God loves you.
By teen mom
August 23, 2005 12:58 PM | Link to this
I just want you guys to know that my baby is not a bad thing. Yeah, I was only 13 when he was born, he’s 6 now. And yeah, I might have had to drop out of school. And yeah, I work at Checkers and don’t make a lot of money, but my baby was not a bad thing. He’s cute as a button.
Now, my second baby, she was born when I was 15, I guess she might have been considered a bad thing. She is 4 now and gets into everything. I found her kissing the little boy next door and boy did I let her have it.
My third baby, he was born when I was 17, he is two now. I love him to death. He isn’t old enough yet to cause too much trouble.
The best part of having 3 children is the check I get from the government every month. Its enough to pay for my makeup and I can get my nails done.
My babies’ fathers are still in the picture. Two of them are brothers. The other one is their cousin. This way all my children are related in special ways to each other. The fathers don’t pay child support though. One of the brothers and the cousin are in jail. We go and visit them every chance we get. They are all in their twenties. See I look a lot older than I am, I liked getting the older guys to notice me. It made up for mom and dad not paying me any attention.
Anyway, my new boyfriend just walked in. He is 33 and so cute, I hope baby number 4 doesn’t come along too soon, most guys seem to lose interest then.
By taboga
August 23, 2005 01:02 PM | Link to this
Taboga obviously doesn’t have children in todays society or ‘Ease Up’ would not be any kind of solution. If I ‘ease up’ on my daughter, she will not learn how to care for her diabetes and she will die, eventually. If I ease up on the 16 year old, he is going to die taking drugs, break into some ones house, go to jail…. Eventaully, the decisions to do right for and by themselves is up to them. But as a parent it is my job to make them walk that right path - teach them moral rights and wrongs - hopefully guide them to a place that will be good for them. As a parent, I love my children. Both of them. If I have to be hard as nails on them to make them act right, then so be it. If my daughter hates me in the end because I wouldn’t let her have that 90 carb muffin or because I make her give her own shots…then so be it. At least I know in my heart that I have done ALL that I can so that they are prepared for this world.
Jennifer,
You could not have missed my point if you desperately tried!
I was talking about the “SCHOOLS” - JENNIFER! I was NOT talking about how someone raises their children!
FOR CRYING OUT LOUD!
By Lyrazel
August 23, 2005 01:03 PM | Link to this
Perhaps, we should listen to teachers instead of politicians regarding the next generation of students. I have been reading many posts here. What comes to my eyes is how many spelling mistakes people have been making. While I know the degree of creative spelling that permeates a blog and the English language, I am also seeing lots of posts that clearly show the educational failures schools are struggling with. Is this telling us where education dollars ought to be spent instead of electives? Basics? If Johnny cant read, is he going to pick up a Bible, I dont think so! Is religion class in public school more important than courses that would advance a student for careers in a country where more and more jobs are overseas? Should we make concessions for religious classes to appease the loudest few in a time of deep financial cutbacks? Why do sports programs get profoundly larger budgets than language, math, or social classes like: Teen Parenting, Nutrition, Recess!!!!! Now, please continue arguing about whose plastic jesus is the correct type of bobble-head and please ignore the fact that your childrens education value has plummeted in the last 5 years because of NCLB.
By Bobb
August 23, 2005 01:05 PM | Link to this
I don’t know, I think I’m going to have to agree with Diane Glass on this one. I attended public school. I experienced firsthand how they teach other subjects. I still have a child in public school. I hear regularly about “stupid stuff” happening at school. I don’t think I want to run the risk of someone being turned off of the Bible at an early age because of the way they were exposed to it in a secular situation like public school. I had to look up “proselytizing” in the dictionary which might tell you something about my schooling and exposure to secular situations. I just wanted to write one more sentence beginning with “I”.
By Astrid
August 23, 2005 01:06 PM | Link to this
I truly believe a course in religion, philosophy and ethics is a good idea.
I come from a North European country where religion is indeed a subject in school - from the beginning of elementary school and up. The country has had really big discussions about this subject, but after having lived in several countries, I see that a course on religion is a good thing - as long as it treats different religions and ethical views. Living in France for instance, i saw that my fellow college students did not have a clue about islam, while this becomes increasingly important - nor did they even know why some days were national holidays (they were so for catholic purposes).
I absolutely think that 14-year olds should know the history of Adam and Eve, of Abraham, of Mary Magdalene - as they should also know who Muhammad was, what reincarnation and Nirvana actually is and have read some myths about Zevs, Aphrodite, Thor and Odin.
Show the children from they are small how most religions and humanistic philosophies actually do have common, good rules (you shall not steal…), to make them understand that “the others” are not necessarily bad - and society might become a better place to live.
By Raylene
August 23, 2005 01:08 PM | Link to this
oh thats real funny. “teen mom”. i’m sorry that is hard to believe. but go ahead and make fun of real teen mothers.
By teen mom
August 23, 2005 01:13 PM | Link to this
What you mean, Raylene?
By rh
August 23, 2005 01:15 PM | Link to this
Jennifer,
Even hate can come in the form of love. I don’t care who it sounds like. You need to pray for your aunt instead of making a spectical of her condition to the public. I know that God loves me and all us for that matter, but its our works that he dislikes. You talk about your child and her condition yet you throw darting comments at others. I to have a child soon to be 15. I am 29 years old not a bible toating old hag. I just don’t take anyones life litely.I have lived every which way but up in my past. So I am not speaking from what someone told me. But GOD has seen me through and thats no joking matter.It sounds like non of the shoes even fit you from what I have read in your ohter blogs, but I guess you felt you had to rebutle. Its ok its like telling me to EASE UP.
By Billy
August 23, 2005 01:15 PM | Link to this
SUZAN — You want contradictions in the Bible? Just do a search! You might try this page…
By Heather
August 23, 2005 01:15 PM | Link to this
I really thought we could discuss the “evils” of smoking today. :)
By buildingbridges
August 23, 2005 01:15 PM | Link to this
“becoming pregnant as a teen is a bad thing that only happens to good people? “
Uhm..Ok, mis-understand much? I didn’t say that becoming pregnant was a bad thing. I suppose I worded that wrong and I’m sorry for that. I never meant to imply that having a child was bad. Having a child at 13, yes is a bad sitation to be in, but not a bad thing. And where in the world did you get that becoming pregnant as a teen is a bad thing that only happens to good people? That is nowhere near close to what I say. I was trying to be supportive of everything that everyone said and showed nothing but respect and yet somehow (not surprisingly) my words get twisted around to something no where close to the original.
By Raylene
August 23, 2005 01:19 PM | Link to this
if all that crap was true, then you are the sorriest excuse for a person, let alone a mother. you should have learned after the first one at 13, to use some damn birth control. i’m sorry, but that was the biggest BS i have ever heard.
By George and Jesus
August 23, 2005 01:23 PM | Link to this
Mara - Do you understand English?
“Look at most species of animals - the mother rears the young; often times protecting them from the father who sired them.”
Notice the word “most” - it does not mean “all”.
So yes, you may find a few anomalies that exist - you can always find an exception to any argument or theory. This doesn’t mean a theory is discredited or your point is now valid.
I say, “Women aren’t as strong as men.” ( a biological truth I don’t think anyone can disagree with)
You say, “There’s a women who can squat 500lbs.”
So this means ALL women are as strong as all men?
By Raylene
August 23, 2005 01:23 PM | Link to this
well sorry if i misunderstood. but it was worded bad. “bad things happen to good people(inculding teen pregnancy)” and for the record, i was not pregnant at 13. i was almost 18(and out of school)when i had my son. this “teen mom” is full of it.
By buildingbridges
August 23, 2005 01:23 PM | Link to this
Raylene & Teen mom, In no way at all was I ever referring to you or your children as bad (children are never a bad result, they are a blessing) and I am sorry that my words got misconstrued and twisted to think that way.
My sentence was “Bad things DO happen to good people (including teen pregnancies)” NO I didn’t mean that the baby itself was bad or that bad things don’t happen to bad people (seriously don’t tell me you have never heard that phrase before ‘bad things happen to good people’??) It’s just a saying, commonly used, when people ask the ‘why me’ question.
Almost anyone can agree that a teen pregnancy is not the most desired situation to be in. THAT was what I was referring to. I was SUPPORTING the comments that was made by Raylene that she was not a slut or a bad person and that she resented the stereotype. Not all teen pregnancies are in that stereotype…
Again, sorry that my words were misunderstood.
By mit
August 23, 2005 01:24 PM | Link to this
teen mom is going to be on the next springer.
“…and what is so wrong with my tooth?”
don’t miss it!
By buildingbridges
August 23, 2005 01:27 PM | Link to this
Raylene
Yeah it was teen mom’s comment that I was responding to with the 13 year old pregnancy. I have no idea why you and I got into it, I have read your posts and have nothing but respect for you and your tenacity to make your life as wonderful as can be. I’m really sorry to have offended you.
By Lyrazel
August 23, 2005 01:27 PM | Link to this
Hmmm do I smell a big fat welfare check? LOL Teen mother you are a hoot!
According to federal and state laws teen mom, you have been raped and your daddies would be in jail. See, it is rape 16-6-3. State of Georgia
(a) A person commits the offense of statutory rape when he or she engages in sexual intercourse with any person under the age of 16 years and not his or her spouse, provided that no conviction shall be had for this offense on the unsupported testimony of the victim.
(b) A person convicted of the offense of statutory rape shall be punished by imprisonment for not less than one nor more than 20 years; provided, however, that if the person so convicted is 21 years of age or older, such person shall be punished by imprisonment for not less than ten nor more than 20 years; provided, further, that if the victim is 14 or 15 years of age and the person so convicted is no more than three years older than the victim, such person shall be guilty of a misdemeanor.
So, maybe you should try to fool some other crowd of clowns….Enjoy
By DeltaX
August 23, 2005 01:28 PM | Link to this
Well, This blog proves it. I am in Georgia! Only people with more backwater BS? West Virginia maybe?
Idiots;)
By Raylene
August 23, 2005 01:29 PM | Link to this
The best part of having 3 children is the check I get from the government every month. Its enough to pay for my makeup and I can get my nails done. If that is the best thing about being a mother, then I must not be doing it right. I think the best thing about being a mother is watching my son grow, and spending time with him. wow, all this time, and i didnt know that having kids was so i could get make-up and my nails done for free. fortunetly i dont need help from the gov’t. but if i did, the money would go towards my son’s needs. not making myself into a slut so i could get pregnant again, by some pediphile.
By Mara
August 23, 2005 01:29 PM | Link to this
Anyone want to get good and freaked out today? Go to the LA Times Nation page and read an article titled “Grooming Politicians for Christ”. YIKES! It’s the Pat Robertson School of Political Science!
Ken - Yes I can name some animal species that do more than just breed-n-feed. Elephants, for example, will not only adopt orphaned calfs, they also bury their dead and on occasion, even the dead of other species. Primates, dolphins, and whales exhibit self awareness and care for others of their group. All three of them have anecdotally cared for or rescued humans in distress. As for taking care of the elderly…yeah, we humans have got it down to an artform, haven’t we? Has your family made your reservation at the Shady Grove Rest Home yet? Or maybe all those lonely shut-ins that Meals-on-Wheels visits every day are just too busy for their family to keep up with…yeah, we treat our elderly so much better than the animals.
On another note, it’s interesting to me that taboga brought up other religions, implying that they wouldn’t be as vilified as christianity is in this forum. That may be because I’ve never had a Jew come up to me and tell me that because I don’t believe as he believes, I am corrupt and immoral. I’ve never had a Jew try to convert me. Nor have I ever had a Muslim try to impose their Islamic beliefs on me. I’ve never been patronized by one or verbally assaulted by one. You know the old saying, “once burned, twice shy?” It’s the desperation and fanatacism of Christians that scare me. It’s the smug superiority and sureness that they know best for everyone. It’s the hypocrisy of the “do as I say, not as I do” evangelical. It’s the judgmentalism of the biblical stone throwers that turns my stomach. And it’s the intrusion of this “holier-than-thou” attitude into the public common that really p** me, personally, off. They’d see a whole lot less anger if they’d just worship and let worship, so to speak. But they really can’t seem to help vilifying those who don’t believe in their God.
By Jack
August 23, 2005 01:30 PM | Link to this
Teen mom is either fibbing or is 1 can short of the six-pack. probably fibbing to get things stirred up. I hear UGA has been ranked 12th for being a party school. What happened? It used to be number 1.
By Archie
August 23, 2005 01:31 PM | Link to this
Lyrazel most of the spelling errors can be attributed to people typing fast as they can and not proofreading their posts. The same could be said about reading these posts as some people take offense to things they would not have if they read the post. With the so-called obesity epidemic sports programs need good funding so that students can have another way to run off the fat. People are in a rush to judgement on so many things including athletics and athletes.If we could negotiate our salaries we would get all we could. By we I mean non-pro athletes. I do think Taboga made a good point when he said we adults convolute the simplest of things and then we pass that mentality on to the children. Many say this topic is boring because they know they would not allow their children to take a bible class so it’s hard to debate something when you have a choice. America has always catered more to the christian religion because it is what’s practiced by most americans. Might doesn’t make right but it’s what’s practiced here.
By George and Jesus
August 23, 2005 01:35 PM | Link to this
Lyrazel,
I guess your teachers failed in teaching the use of apostrophes.
Also, sports don’t have higher budgets-in fact, they get hardly any tax funding at all. It’s booster club money.
By Raylene
August 23, 2005 01:38 PM | Link to this
buildingbridges- no i understand what you mean now. i just took it wrong. i have gotten a lot of rude comments and ugly stares, and i guess i over-defend myself. i’m sorry that we got into it also. and thanks for the comment about respecting me. i dont get that often.
By Jennifer
August 23, 2005 01:39 PM | Link to this
All right - Taboga you are right. I did miss your point - in a round about fashion. What we teach them at home goes hand in hand with what the teachers are teaching them. Our children spend 85% of their time in school and more schools are leaning towards year round school. We, as a society, need to pay more attention to these institutions that are molding our children. We need to take control.
By buildingbridges
August 23, 2005 01:39 PM | Link to this
Mara that’s not very fair to lump all christians into one dilusional group. I hate how the one’s as you described (and unfortunately they are out there in abundance) have given us a bad rep. I never cram my religion down anyone’s throats and I expect the same from others. I have gotten into numerous debates with fellow christians about their “holier than thou” attitudes. It drives me absolutetly nuts. I really hope though that you’ll be accepting of those of us that aren’t like that.
By teen mom
August 23, 2005 01:42 PM | Link to this
I’m so sorry I have bothered you Raylene. I just wanted to share.
By Heather
August 23, 2005 01:44 PM | Link to this
Raylene, why don’t you explain exactly how you were treated by people after you got pregnant. I think that might help people to understand why you feel so passionate about this topic.
By George and Jesus
August 23, 2005 01:49 PM | Link to this
Mara,
Why are you a Christianphobe? You must not be comfortable in your non-Christianity! Is there a little Christian inside of you that wants to experiment?
By buildingbridges
August 23, 2005 01:52 PM | Link to this
Raylene:
over-defending is easy to do when there are so many out there willing and eager to judge. This is not the same magnitude or of the same topid but I gained a lot of weight during cancer treatments due to the steroids I had to take to keep my white blood counts up. I am overly sensitive when someone judges me (or anyone for that matter) based on my weight. I just want to shout “I survived cancer and am working on the weight doesn’t that matter?!?” Never assume that an overweight person doesn’t know what it’s like to be thin and never assume that a thin person has never been overweight. I have found that philosaphy true in most situations. Not everything is as it seems. Don’t pay attention to the stares and comments. Only you know what you are making of yourself and your children will reap the benefits of a fit mother who knows what is worth going for in life.
(And before anyone flames me for spelling, I have a disability called mild dyslexia and word replacement, I can’t remember the technical term for that because it’s a horribly long word and I’m already not good with words, that’s why I’m an engineer and deal with numbers! :) )
By taboga
August 23, 2005 01:53 PM | Link to this
Lyrazel,
What does “punctuation” really matter? I mean, most people (myself at the head of the line) make many mistakes with punctuation and sentence structure. But what does it really matter unless it is atrocious and makes your writing unreadable?
We’re not all to be English majors. And I rather think that making a thoughtful point is far more important than making an insidious one that is well *punctuated”.
Punctuation does not make or negate intelligence.
By Raylene
August 23, 2005 01:53 PM | Link to this
i would have been fine if i had stayed in california(land of open-mindedness). but i got dragged out here, to alpharetta(land of snobby house-wives). i couldnt go out to eat, to the mall, or even to my little brothers football games, without getting stared at, or hearing people whispering about me. no other teenagers talked to me while i was pregnant. like i had a “disease”. stay away from that pregnant girl, you’ll get pregnant too
By George and Jesus
August 23, 2005 01:55 PM | Link to this
Very funny, TEEN MOM.
I can’t believe the naivete of those who thought that was a serious post!
By Raylene
August 23, 2005 02:00 PM | Link to this
well good for you bridges. i try to ignore most people, but it gets hard. at least no one in this huge office i work in judges me on it. i know how people can be to overweight people. my mom is, and some idiot has gone as far to say “yeah smoke that cigarette, its good for the baby” my dad almost killed him. but you are right, you cant assume anything about anyone.
By Raylene
August 23, 2005 02:03 PM | Link to this
george & jesus. duh it wasnt a real post. i was the first to point that out.
By Jack
August 23, 2005 02:06 PM | Link to this
We love you Raylene. Glad your Dad didn’t kill the a*, he would be in the pokey. Don’t worry, what goes around comes around.
By taboga
August 23, 2005 02:06 PM | Link to this
What we teach them at home goes hand in hand with what the teachers are teaching them.
This is a BIG part of the problem. Isn’t it hard enough to teach children respect, decency and responsibility as it is? Now, have the schools teaching them at the same time something that might contradict the things that you are trying to instill in them - and you have one heck of a confused child.
This is why the schools need to stay completely out of social engineering - it is not their job!
Our kids are suffering the brunt of the social experimentation that we want to call: Schools.
At least when the Communists ran their socialist indoctrination camps (schools) they didn’t forget to teach them to read and write.
By Questions
August 23, 2005 02:07 PM | Link to this
I have been accused of being liberal and more, but this country’s educational system was in a major mess long before NCLB. I actually consider it the parents’ fault, for not being involved in their children’s schools. I was once in the PTA, 600 kids in the school, maybe 50 sets of parents if we were lucky showed up to meetings.
and doubt many on this blog less than 23 years old.
By Raylene
August 23, 2005 02:09 PM | Link to this
well i thank you jack. lol sorry laughing to myself… thats a quote from pirates….
By Mara
August 23, 2005 02:12 PM | Link to this
Ah George, but I do most definitly disagree. It is NOT an unassailable biological “truth” that men are strong and women are weakm which is the implication of the phrase “Women aren’t as strong as men.” As you say, just because one woman can squat 500 lbs doesn’t mean we all can. Conversely, just because a man can squat 500 lbs, it doesn’t mean ALL men can, either. It would be more honest to say that “Some men and some women can squat 500 lbs, but not all men or all women can squat 500 lbs” And that’s just strength in the physical sense. There is mental and emotional strenght. The strength to endure, to persevere. Is it your opinion that men are superior to women in these realms also, or are some of one sex as good as some of the other?
As I recall, you were blathering on about “maternal instinct”. I like it when men start giving women information on what it means to be a woman. It amuses me, hence the “eat their young” post. Considering the number of women who either abuse their children or allow others to abuse them, I think you may want to re-research your material. Your caveman opinion that “women bear children, and are the caregivers. Men providers; woman bear children” is so old and tired it’s pathetic. Women are a hell of a lot more than a biologically programed walking womb. Consider the drop in birthrate once contraception becomes readily available (and religions loses its stranglehold on a population). Most women don’t want to breed over and over until childbearing finally cripples, if not kills, them.
By Raylene
August 23, 2005 02:13 PM | Link to this
hmmm. heather had mentioned earlier that it could be questions that was “teen mom”. just noticed… teen mom left, and questions is here now. imagine that.
By Argy
August 23, 2005 02:14 PM | Link to this
and doubt many on this blog less than 23 years old.
Well, I am!
By Raylene
August 23, 2005 02:14 PM | Link to this
btw i am just playing… dont really think that questions is teen mom
By George and Jesus
August 23, 2005 02:15 PM | Link to this
My apologies Raylene - I didn’t want to spoil your moment in the sun! If I could I’d put a smiley face on a piece of paper and so you could stick it on your fridge.
By buildingbridges
August 23, 2005 02:17 PM | Link to this
I don’t have such an easy time ignoring them. I sometimes forget my manners (if you know what I mean). go daddy! A lot of nerve!
to be honest, I’m a little envious, I can’t hardly wait to have kids! And to be able to enjoy them while you are still so young. I’m about to be 29, I know, not old, but the rate I’m going I’ll be in my 70’s before they go to college. Again, nothing wrong with it just hard to go to football games every saturday when your using a cane! ;-) JK.
Lyrazel - I don’t read for the punctuations or spelling. I know for me, most times I’m typing something fast inbetween something at work and don’t proofread. big deal!
By Lyrazel
August 23, 2005 02:17 PM | Link to this
It boils down to priorities, Archie. Is Education sports training more important than language? Why does SPORTS receive so much more of a school budget especially in Georgia, where some of the worst schools and GPAs of students in America is tragically evident in unemployment, violence and under-employment? Is it more important than reading? Writing? Arithmitic? Maybe I cant throw a touchdown pass and my tight end is a bit flabby—but the teachers who helped MY education were not teaching to a test! They spent their time teaching STUDENTS TO LEARN. I know my foreign language helped my employment. If I can throw a football through a tire I could probably do commercials…but at my age…it is not a valuable skill… I was sent to church to be taught christianity and biblical lessons because my parents thought ONLY people who completed seminary and were ordained should teach scripture; not Ms Vivian. Change can be good, Archie! We are no longer the America of that totalitarian christian state of mind! We have ministers of a variety of religions telling us to assasinate political leaders or writers and anyone who doesnt tow the diehard fundamentalist path—is on a course for damnations…The My God Is Right and Yours Is Wrong Debate has been fun…but its so tedious. Enjoy
By Renee
August 23, 2005 02:20 PM | Link to this
I enjoy all your comments Raylene!!
By Mara
August 23, 2005 02:25 PM | Link to this
Building bridges - thanks. I realize that there really are some who practice what they preach. And I agree that overly broad phrases sometimes equates the good with the bad. The sad part is that I can say unequivically that I have met less than 10 people who would fit that description. And George, you ask where my christianophobia comes from…did you read the post? I was “burned” more than once so now I’m more than twice shy.
By buildingbridges
August 23, 2005 02:26 PM | Link to this
OH pirates …. yum. I could just hear capt. barbossa when I read it. lol
Taboga: “This is why the schools need to stay completely out of social engineering - it is not their job!”
YET, when a child gets in trouble for their lack of social engineering, the teacher gets bombarded by angry parents or no response at all. How are parents supposed to teach their kids this when they aren’t around? Or how are teachers supposed to conduct a productive classroom when they are constantly having to babysit one that headbutts (true story) the teacher because he doesn’t want to sit down before they go out to the playground?
the decline in respect, decency and responsibility is astounding and honestly, I have run into a lot of rude parents that are quick to flip the bird or point fingers and we wonder why kids don’t have these attributes?
By Lyrazel
August 23, 2005 02:26 PM | Link to this
tobagoo punctuation is not important its what you do with punctuation that is phenomial if you were applying for a job that paid more than minimum wage and were asked to write an essay about the importance of grammar and you wrote about some little old lady your education could have happened in georgia we all know how the educated and articulate have helped UGA become party school #1 and to answer another posters question the reason UGA is slipping in the party polls is because georgia grown students known for their grits & keg consumption levels cannot pass the enterance exams…enjoy
By Questions
August 23, 2005 02:27 PM | Link to this
sorry, crrection: should be a good part of the blame falls on parents.
By Matt
August 23, 2005 02:29 PM | Link to this
This post is for Angie. It is long. Please skip this if you are not interested. (Just warning you in advance)
Angie: While I admire your passion for your religion and the efforts you take to defend your position, I must admit that I believe your passion is misplaced. The reason I say this is that your anti-Catholic stance is based upon assumptions and misinterpretations of the RCC that simply aren’t true. If you truly understood the Catholic faith and its accurate beliefs, you may not agree with them but I doubt you would so vehemently condemn the faith as “completely false and misleading� or “revised pagan Babylonian religion that the devil himself mixed with a few Christian words�. Statements like these, along with your erroneous views of the Catholic faith (which, by the way, are the same erroneous views that have been passed down by the likes of Lorraine Boettner, Jack Chick, etc. and have been dismissed in many a book – see Karl Keating’s “Catholicism and Fundamentalism� for one example) reveal the fact that you care not for truly understanding what Catholics actually believe, but instead for strengthening your anti-Catholic agenda. I do not care to get into theological debates with you, as you and Boscoe seem to have that aspect down pretty good, but instead I would like to correct the many wrong interpretations of the faith. This is simply to tell you what Catholics actually believe; feel free to disagree with the basis of these beliefs all you want, but please do not continue to misrepresent these beliefs in future posts.
1) The idea of “faith plus good works� is not as much of an “oh, I did this so that earns me heaven points!� as much as it is simply “walking the walk�. Faith plus good works simply means living the life of faith you have already professed by example, and is not to be though of as “earning� your way into heaven. While a simple profession of faith is a good start, I find it hard to believe that it is fully sufficient because if I then went off and murdered 10,000 children I find it hard to believe I still would make it into heaven.
2) There is but one mediator: Jesus Christ. Although you pull out many Catechism passages that supposedly support your argument here, you conveniently forgot to pull out such direct quotes such as “Christ, high priest and unique mediatorâ€? (CCC 1546), “The cross is the unique sacrifice of Christ, the “one mediator between God and men….Apart from the cross there is no other ladder by which we may get to heaven” (CCC 618), “Jesus Christ is true God and true man, in the unity of his divine person; for this reason he is the one and only mediator between God and men.â€? (CCC 480), “Jesus, the only mediatorâ€? (CCC 2674). The RCC does not believe in any way, shape, or form that Mary is a co-mediator nor does she “take the place of Jesusâ€? as you try to tell us.
3) The Catholic church condemns idol worship, same as you. The use of statues and relics does not mean that they are “worshippedâ€? any more than you “worshipâ€? the photos of relatives or friends in your wallet or any more than you “worshipâ€? the empty wooden cross that may be displayed in your church. “honor paid to sacred images is a “respectful veneration,” not the adoration due to God aloneâ€? (CCC 2132)
4) Catholics do not believe that human priests forgive sins. � Only God forgives sins.� (CCC 1441) Sins are forgiven only by God, but may be done so through a priest. You were correct in stating that the RCC says that we must confess major sins to a priest. The basis for this comes from Matthew Chapter 5: “Therefore if thou bring thy gift to the altar, and there rememberest that thy brother hath ought against thee; 24 Leave there thy gift before the altar, and go thy way; first be reconciled to thy brother, and then come and offer thy gift.� (KJV) in addition to the fact that God gave disciples, human men on Earth, the power to “bind and loose sins�. Confession is an apology to our Church brothers and sisters as well as God. God hears all confessions, so we still are taking our sins to God himself. Feel free to disagree with the disciples passing on the power of binding and loosing sins, but do not misrepresent the faith by saying we believe human men forgive sins.
5) Catholics do not believe anyone outside the Church is necessarily “going to hell�. The Catholic faith, apparently unlike you, recognizes truths and good aspects of all religions and people of no religion alike and does not tout itself as the only way to heaven.
6) The idea of “infallibility� of a Pope does not imply “perfect� or “sinless�. Infallibility only implies when speaking “ex cathedra�, or from the throne. There have been many evil Popes, as you like to point out, but that does not suggest that the Church itself is evil any more than an evil Protestant TV evangelist suggests that the Protestant faith is evil. There are evil men in all religions, but none of these men should take away from the underlying goodness of the faith they represent.
Having said this, in all of your research surely you can describe a few GOOD Popes who have existed through the years, right? Surely you can also point out some GOOD aspects of the Catholic faith, right? Or is everything the RCC represents false, evil, and doomed to take us to Hell?
These are the plain facts about what the Church believes. These concepts were taught to me in 9 months of Catechism classes, so I find it hard to believe you have not grasped these concepts in 10 years of “extensive research� if you were really doing honest research instead of following anti-Catholic propaganda. If you really care to do good research, I suggest you take your oppositions to the Church to a priest or a Catechism class and find out the Catholic beliefs straight from the source. They will be more than happy to discuss these subjects with you.
I ask you this: What is it about the Catholic faith that disturbs you so much so that you would spend 10 years of research on someone else’s religion only so you can publicly condemn it as false? If you answer by saying you are concerned with lost souls and “saving� us, I would say that there are many other places to find lost souls than the Catholic Church. I would perhaps start with people who have never heard of Jesus to start with. I disagree with other religions, but I do not feel the need to build up misleading propaganda to support my pre-notions and shout it to anyone that will listen. I simply disagree and let others find the truth that they seek.
The bottom line is that Catholics believe in the death, resurrection, and saving grace of Jesus Christ, same as you. Catholic and Protestant bibles contain the same 66 books, although the Catholic version contains 7 others (feel free to disagree with these 7, but the other 66 are essentially the same). This somehow does not strike me as “revised pagan Babylonian religion�, unless yours is so as well. Although we may share many different beliefs, whether you want to admit it or not we aren’t all that different in our core beliefs.
By Lyrazel
August 23, 2005 02:29 PM | Link to this
I cannot do apostrophies because the blog translates my apostophies as irregular characters…please forgive…
By rh
August 23, 2005 02:32 PM | Link to this
My blogs do have errors in spelling and punctuations. It was not intended to be an edited book. But if you are looking for imperfection in anything you will find it.Why get so hung on futile things that you miss the fact. I have a to say by looking at the conversations here.Experience comes with time.It is the same conversation I have with my younger brother 24 who is such a thinker of logic. Education is a very good thing. You should learn all you can and can all you get,but I have seen people that have 2 and 3 degrees and do not know when to come in out of the rain.Thats why there are 2 trees. One the tree of life. The other tree of knowledge of good and evil. You can learn so much you will think yourself out of life.
By Ken
August 23, 2005 02:33 PM | Link to this
Ben… I never said I agreed with Pat Robertson, or that he wasn’t a little looney. I simply want you and others not make statements against him, or anyone else for that matter, based on his actual statements and not implications.
Mara excellent examples… However, they are very few in comparison to all of God’s creation.
Argy… Actually, if I remember correctly, Social Darwinism was called just that b/c Darwin also included the idea that the strongest survuve in the evolutionary process and the weaker ones are discarded. So Social Darwinism would simply be an extension of that… The strongest individuals in society survive and the weakest are simply discarded.
The point being, was that I suspected Mara, like myself, would not agree with the idea of Social Darwinism b/c I/we do not believe the weakest in society should be discarded. I believe society should help them the most (we can disagree on the best ways to provide that help).
By Questions
August 23, 2005 02:33 PM | Link to this
argy - and yet you seem to spell fine and use grammer correctly.
I am not teen mom, that thought alone rather funny.
By Lyrazel
August 23, 2005 02:38 PM | Link to this
rh, my point was and only was: what are priorities in education? Teaching kids to read or allowing religous courses to be taught in at a time when schools are underfunded? I dont give a ruby fig how people spell but only proving a point with the skill-set level used here. Cripe, english is for pool balls…
By Raylene
August 23, 2005 02:39 PM | Link to this
George- you are not my child, so i don’t want anything of yours on my fridge.
Bridges- i hope that you are able to have children soon. my aunt was 38 when she had her first. and another aunt is getting married again and wants to have a baby, she is 40.
Renee- thank you. i enjoy yours also. =)
By Raylene
August 23, 2005 02:41 PM | Link to this
questions- i said that i was only playing. please dont take offense
By Questions
August 23, 2005 02:45 PM | Link to this
Raylene - I did not take offense. and if I may make a comment about yesterday to all, in no way did I think my remark was ‘attacking a kid’.
By rh
August 23, 2005 02:46 PM | Link to this
Lyrazel Sorry, that wasn’t really directed at any one person. I even laughed when I read my own. Trying to do 2 things at 1 time
By Argy
August 23, 2005 02:51 PM | Link to this
Ken,
You’re right about what the social darwinists said. What I’m saying is social darwinists are making the “Naturalistic Fallacy.” That is, confusing is with ought. And while we’re talking about Darwin, let’s try to avoid “Survival of the Fittest”-type language. That term (and I know you didn’t use it specifically) was coined by a social darwinist whose name I can’t recall, and is completely meaningless. Darwin spoke of variation within species, differential reproductive rates due to natural selection, and common descent.
Questions,
It’s probably because I’ve never been to Georgia!
By Archie
August 23, 2005 02:55 PM | Link to this
Lyrazel if Georgia is ranked 49th in education then South Carolina is ranked 48th or 50th. I said good funding for athletics is necessary. I said good funding not more funding. This is an example of people reading fast and not really understanding posts. I never implied sports are more important than education, I did imply that people don’t read posts thoroughly. Anyone reading my posts knows that I don’t like Pat Robertson but sports are an important part of a school curriculum. Students can use a sports scholarship to get an education at a university so that they might learn a foreign language. I took 3 years of French in college and it didn’t do me any good. I am from SC so I don’t know much about budgets in Georgia but up here there is a lawsuit to get all the county schools funded properly. You spelled arithmetic wrong. You spelled it arithmitic. I do agree change can be good.
By Spiker
August 23, 2005 02:56 PM | Link to this
I am a highschool student on the debate team. And we debated this very same topic at our last meeting.
Humanities is a class offered to us, filled with mythology and Homer’s “The Odyssey.” Diane says “I agree that the Bible is an important historic work. But it needn’t be studied in secondary public schools any more than the study of classical mythology, a discipline just as influential to Western thought.” Well, mythology is already taught, so why can’t I have the option to study Bible history?
Oh, and I’m sorry. I guess I’ll have to wait till college to study that. But Science Fiction is a non-core-curriculum elective class that is taught in highschool. I took it last year. There were many personal decisions we had to make about the universe and its origins. Mythology was also a part of it. (We did our final project on centaurs.)All of this is too personal for highschool. Let’s just wait for college to study that too.
If you continue this same line of thinking you end up with no class choices at all in high school. All of them become too much of a personal decision to be made by “children.”
Honors English integrates parts of the Bible into the classroom curriculum to explain some of the illussions in our textbooks. Nix this class.
Symphonic band plays “Jesu, joy of man’s desiring” at Christmas. Can’t have this class either.
Science class integrates the concept of evolution. But that’s a personal decision too. Get rid of this class too.
Wake up people! Every single class your high schooler takes is going to challenge them in their personal beliefs!
Take a look at my Jehovah’s Witness friend. In Band class she couldn’t play “Jesu, joy of man’s desiring” or a Christmas mixture because of her peronal beliefs.
In Science we’re bombarded with altering beliefs of evolution and intelligent design. (But no one seems to care that my Chemistry teacher has a poster saying “I’m not making Chemistry hard, GOD made it that way”)
So whats the issue with an elective Bible class? It’s merely that the anti-Christians, anti-Bible fanatics (whatever you would like to call them) don’t want to allow the enemy to crawl up and reclaim territory that the anti-anything-religious side has already claimed on the premise of it being too personal for “children.”
By George and Jesus
August 23, 2005 03:01 PM | Link to this
Mara,
You’re kidding right? You’re telling me - as a species - women are as physically strong as men. I honestly don’t know ONE woman as strong as I am. And I’m not by any means the strongest male. Watch any athletic event between males and females of the same age/level and the female game is considerable slower than the male game. It is a biological fact women do not possess the same strenght as men. You cannot refuse this!
Now, I never said women are not as mentally or emotionally as strong as men. I believe as a species, this does vary from individual to individual.
Now, you don’t have to be a caveman or a brain surgeon to figure out that each gender has specific biological roles and characteristics that enable them to fulfill these functions - that is why when my wife was pregnant, my breasts didn’t fill with milk - yet hers did! I tried to explain to her breasts that this WASN’T FAIR, that I was just as responsible for creating the child, but they didn’t listen to me.
By Raylene
August 23, 2005 03:05 PM | Link to this
Argy- do you mean Niko Tinbergen? Konrad Lorenz, or Karl von Frisch? they were all ethologists. they won a noble prize together.
By Just Being Me
August 23, 2005 03:11 PM | Link to this
You know that big loud snort that comes in the middle of a good snore?
How do you spell that?
By blablabla
August 23, 2005 03:11 PM | Link to this
On another note, it’s interesting to me that taboga brought up other religions, implying that they wouldn’t be as vilified as christianity is in this forum. That may be because I’ve never had a Jew come up to me and tell me that because I don’t believe as he believes, I am corrupt and immoral. I’ve never had a Jew try to convert me. Nor have I ever had a Muslim try to impose their Islamic beliefs on me. I’ve never been patronized by one or verbally assaulted by one.
Mara, no offense, but you need to travel some. If you don’t think Jews and Muslims don’t push their religion simply because they’ve never approached you, you’re either painfully naive or you desperately need to get out of the US more often. And if you want to focus on the Christian extremists that you so despise, you should compare them to the Muslim extremists that are out there.
By Jack
August 23, 2005 03:13 PM | Link to this
George is right. Other than childbirth, the man is superior. Sorry ladies.
By Questions
August 23, 2005 03:17 PM | Link to this
on that thought, how about all those AMERICAN protestors in Gaza the last few days. No one can protest like us Americans, we wrote the book.
By Boscoe
August 23, 2005 03:25 PM | Link to this
Thanks Angie, have a nice trip. ambergris, you’re just jealous because they didn’t try it on you
By Argy
August 23, 2005 03:27 PM | Link to this
No, Raylene, it wasn’t any of them. It was Herbert Spencer. What’s you’re point with the Nobel Prizes?
By George and Jesus
August 23, 2005 03:28 PM | Link to this
Where do people get the idea that sports are heavily funded by the state! Again this is responsible to booster clubs - who raise money. And yes, big booster clubs at wealthy schools can raise thousands and thousands of dollars. If you’re worried about the MATH department, start a math booster club and raise thousands of dollars to funnel into the math department at your child’s school.
Please don’t mislead people - I have a friend who is an AD at a high school most sports barely get enough to cover operating costs and some couldn’t even compete w/o the booster club - that is how limited funding is.
By Heather
August 23, 2005 03:30 PM | Link to this
LOL, Jack. So man is superior other than childbirth? Thats okay, without childbirth your man self would not have been born.
By taboga
August 23, 2005 03:31 PM | Link to this
On another note, it’s interesting to me that taboga brought up other religions, implying that they wouldn’t be as vilified as christianity is in this forum.
I wasn’t “implying” anything - I was stating a fact.
It can be frustrating to get people to acknowledge a point sometimes…
If you regularly follow just this blog, you will see that Christians are constantly made fun of, portrayed as zealots who believe in fairy tales, called some of the most imaginable names you can think of and basically ridiculed in every fashion.
My point, is not whether that is right, wrong or what have you. My point, is that if anyone were to criticize Jews or Muslims for their beliefs, that is somehow - taboo.
And if you don’t believe that, let someone come out here and criticize Jews and Muslims in the same manner that you folks do Christians - and in no time there will be folks demanding that the AJC ban the person from this board!
And please don’t read something into what I stated. I don’t care to criticize Jews, Muslims or anyone else just for the sake of criticizing them. I just find it extraordinary as to how people can be conditioned to be so intellectually dishonest.
By Heather
August 23, 2005 03:32 PM | Link to this
What in the world were Americans protesting in Gaza for? Wasn’t there enough going on there already?
By George and Jesus
August 23, 2005 03:33 PM | Link to this
blablabla,
When someone says “no offense,” offense is exactly what they meant.
By Questions
August 23, 2005 03:36 PM | Link to this
most of the Gaza settlers were transplanted Americans.
By Raylene
August 23, 2005 03:39 PM | Link to this
argy- i didnt have a point i was stating a fact about them. they had the same beliefs as darwin. that was all. no need to get snotty about it.
By Argy
August 23, 2005 03:41 PM | Link to this
Well, of course men are superior… they’re taller!
By buildingbridges
August 23, 2005 03:41 PM | Link to this
The men have spoken ladies. Let’s take our childbearing selves and let them rule this world. Of course there would be no men to rule the world if there were no woman, but no matter, they are superior. sarcasm
I’ll give you the physically strong thing, but we do have one powerful limb that can bring a man to his knees… and that would be MY knee.
By taboga
August 23, 2005 03:42 PM | Link to this
What in the world were Americans protesting in Gaza for? Wasn’t there enough going on there already?
Cindy Sheehan left Crawford so they needed some new cause in order to practice their trade.
They’ll be in Central American next week protesting against unfair wages for banana pickers!
By Mara
August 23, 2005 03:43 PM | Link to this
blablabla - as noted in my post those were my reasons for discomfort with christians. Maybe others identified with my experience and reasons, and maybe not. You may note that I did NOT say that Jews and Muslims don’t push their religious views, just that they’ve never done so to me. Therefore I, personally, have no animosity toward those religions. I’d assume that where they are the majority they are just as insufferable as christians, (religion seems to demand a certain amount of self-satisfaction from its adherents, no matter what the sect or god) but I’ve still never been assailed by any of them.
That being said, I wouldn’t want to live in one of their theocracies, or be forced to pay for their religious indoctrination either.
By Heather
August 23, 2005 03:44 PM | Link to this
I’m reading something about this now on another site. I can see why they are pulling out of Gaza but it is terrible to see people taken by force from their homes. May the Lord God Almighty keep watch over these people and help them recover. May His will be done. Amen.
By Argy
August 23, 2005 03:46 PM | Link to this
argy- i didnt have a point i was stating a fact about them. they had the same beliefs as darwin. that was all. no need to get snotty about it.
OK, that’s cool. I don’t have a point a lot of the time either.
By Heather
August 23, 2005 03:48 PM | Link to this
If every woman in the world united and refused to have sex with men, men would realize who is really the strongest. They would be begging in less than a month.
By Argy
August 23, 2005 03:50 PM | Link to this
Oh dear god…
What’s you’re point with the Nobel Prizes?
…kicks self in grammer-bone…
By taboga
August 23, 2005 03:51 PM | Link to this
May His will be done. Amen.
What does that mean?
By rh
August 23, 2005 03:52 PM | Link to this
Heather,
I agree with you Amen!
By blablabla
August 23, 2005 03:55 PM | Link to this
george & jesus:
actually, i meant exactly what i said. it’s not my intent to offend mara for her comments. but they are painfully naive when read by anybody who has travelled extensively or reads foreign news periodicals. if she lives in a world where neither jews nor muslims actively push their religious beliefs on non-believers, she lives in an insular world, in my opinion.
By Mara
August 23, 2005 03:57 PM | Link to this
George, yes. I thoroughly reject your premise that all men are stronger than all women. And just because you don’t know a woman stronger than you, that doesn’t mean there isn’t one. I would accept that some men are stronger than some women. I happen to know a couple men that can’t touch me on a rock face. I know one for sure that doesn’t run as fast as I. So right there, I know for a fact that all men aren’t as “strong” as all women. And just because my body is build to breed doesn’t mean that I want to, or that I have to. Once again I reject your caveman claim that “Woman breed, man feed.” Just cuz we got the plumbing doesn’t mean we all have that mythical “maternal instinct” that you know so much about. I, for example, would make a terrible mother. I don’t like ‘em and I don’t want ‘em. So stick that up our “Woman breed…” pipe and smoke it.
By Brian
August 23, 2005 03:57 PM | Link to this
It appears that we haven’t learned our lesson yet…The main problem with our country today is we’re still trying to tell everyone else how to run there lives, who should marry who, who should support what, what to teach the kids. I am a christian (Baptist), my parents willingly sent me to a catholic and Seven Day adventist schools…The end result to their thinking was for me to get a good non-public school education. Whatever confused me in school during our one hour of religion was cleared up at home. We as Americans have no respect for the way other people wish to do things. That’s goes for religion, politics, and child rearing. Who gives one man the right to pass judgement on what somebody else chooses to do. You gotta love private school if you don’t like what’s going on in the mainstream, leave it..
By Questions
August 23, 2005 03:57 PM | Link to this
and here I thought those three may have been the ones who coined the non-Darwin phrase Survival of the Fittest. silly me.
By Argy
August 23, 2005 03:58 PM | Link to this
Spiker,
Sounds like your school already has plenty of Christian education. No need for a specific class!
By blablabla
August 23, 2005 03:58 PM | Link to this
mara - you make a reasonable point.
By taboga
August 23, 2005 04:01 PM | Link to this
I watch lizards mating all day — that is where I get my views from.
I am bound and determined to get everyone to agree with my views.
If a person gets their views from religion and they try to persuade you to agree with them - how do they differ from me?
Everyone and his brother can try and push their views through. Yet, let a religious person suggest even one idea that comes from their religion - and many folks act as if the sky is falling!
By rh
August 23, 2005 04:02 PM | Link to this
Comment not directed towards any one person. If you beleive GOD is. He created woman from man.From that point on man comes from woman. That is his order. I am a woman, It was hard for me to learn this order, but I have. If you dont beleive that GOD is then there is no way to govern yor belief and that is respected. It is not that women are beneath men or behind them. This is the covering, Man is responsible for us.They are not superior in being for he should love her as his own body, as his self. This is why we have women over in Iraq dieing for the right to equal. Leaving 3 and 4 month old babies without mothers. We have the right to defend our country I know. Every thing that you have the right to do does not always imply that the action is right.
By Questions
August 23, 2005 04:03 PM | Link to this
Argy - I think they are called Grammar Police, a blog saying for calling attention to the frivolous typos/etc: “Grammer Police, Grammer Police” (laughing)
my view, like Taboga’s, gasp, is IS IT UNDERSTANDABLE? since we all tend to spell phonetically anyway, when speed writing.
By buildingbridges
August 23, 2005 04:04 PM | Link to this
taboga
Are you trying to keep the pot stirring or are you honestly asking what was meant by “May His will be done” ? I’m going to let the original poster with that phrase answer, I’m just curious.
By teen mom
August 23, 2005 04:08 PM | Link to this
Well, you guys have sort of lost me here with a few of these things yall been sayin.
I just want to say that I think we women are not suppose to be as strong as men. All the men around here are way stronger than I am. They make me feel so small and delicate with their manly ways.
Why would I want to outrun a man anyway? Its much more fun when they catch me!! teehee
By Argy
August 23, 2005 04:10 PM | Link to this
Ahl rite Kweschuns, I agree. I’ll spell everything funneticly frum now on. It’ll be hillarius!
Grammar police, arrest this guy…
By buildingbridges
August 23, 2005 04:11 PM | Link to this
taboga I just read my post and it doesn’t sound nice (with the stiring the pot comment). I didn’t mean that like it sounds. I was on debate team in HS so I enjoy a good lively debate and will often keep the pot stirred even if I don’t care what the response is. That’s why I asked.
Sorry! :)
And I agree about your comment with the pushing views as soon as a christian does it…whewee..stand back!
By Heather
August 23, 2005 04:11 PM | Link to this
Taboga, I always pray for the Lord’s will to be done in any matter. He is certainly a better judge than I am of what should be done in any given situation.
By Raylene
August 23, 2005 04:17 PM | Link to this
well the slut of the blog ring award goes to…..
By kimberly
August 23, 2005 04:21 PM | Link to this
Heather made a GREAT point about the value of organized labor. Women SHOULD go on strike in the sex department. (Although gay people wouldn’t suffer; they’d just be annoyed at all the straight people complaining about their sex lives!) You see, back when we had a UNION, there was a going rate for sex: A ring, a wedding, a honeymoon, a house, and a bunch of promises. Whether the promises were kept is another issue, but the wage was set. But then some women BROKE with the union and started working for less. By the 90’s, an average guy could get all the sex he wanted for the price of a cheeseburger and a video rental. Heck, booty calls are FREE! How can one compete with that? If you hold out, they’ll just go next door. No WONDER I can’t get somebody to paint my house. DANG!
Good point Heather. SUPPORT UNIONS!
By taboga
August 23, 2005 04:23 PM | Link to this
If every woman in the world united and refused to have sex with men, men would realize who is really the strongest. They would be begging in less than a month.
If men united, we would have sex with women when and wherever we wanted - and there would be nothing women could do about it.
By Heather
August 23, 2005 04:29 PM | Link to this
But taboga, men would never be able to unite in this way. All we women would have to do is offer to give a few men a little attention and they would break from the pack like that!! And turn on the rest of you who would fall apart pretty quick anyway.
Kimberly, LOL. I never thought I would hear you agreeing with me. :) You do make a good point.
By buildingbridges
August 23, 2005 04:31 PM | Link to this
rh - quote it all you want. I agree with what you say, but you leave out an important part of it all. A christian husband is commanded to honour their wife, to cherish her body and to become one with her. I have never read anywhere other than physical weakness that women are weak in other aspects. The christian husband is also supposed to be the head of the household and to be spiritial leaders. Whatever happened to that? OH and I do know plenty of “christian” husbands that do not hold up their part of the bargain.
By kimberly
August 23, 2005 04:31 PM | Link to this
Toober-face, sure we could. With YOU, we could catch a nap. ZZZzzzZZZzzz. “Done yet?”
By taboga
August 23, 2005 04:32 PM | Link to this
But taboga, men would never be able to unite in this way. All we women would have to do is offer to give a few men a little attention and they would break from the pack like that!! And turn on the rest of you who would fall apart pretty quick anyway.
Not only is that a true statement - it is actually what has already happened.
By Raylene
August 23, 2005 04:34 PM | Link to this
if women got together and striked sex, men would be begging in less than a week.lmao
By George and Jesus
August 23, 2005 04:34 PM | Link to this
Mara,
You are so angry! I will definitely pray for you!
Now,I ever stated that a women’s only function was to breed. People are free to do as they please and if you or any woman doesn’t want to have children that is your right. Contrary to your belief, I’m not trying to keep women “barefoot and pregnant.” I’m stating that each gender is more suited for specific tasks/roles in society. Your “anything you can do we can do better” is very tiresome and inaccurate view.
Once again you also misinterpreted my position on physical strength - you obviously deal in absolutes. Not ALL men are stronger than all women. (meaning every single man is stronger than every single woman) this, of course is absurd, but you need to propigate this example to defend your position. So again, as a gender, men are the physically dominant. Why are women not in infantry units, why do they not play sports with men? Why are they not bouncers at bars or bodyguards, etc. etc. Because besides for a few genetic freaks they cannot physically impose their dominace on the average man. I can’t believe you can even debate this!
However, I do agree you probably won’t make a good mother.
By Questions
August 23, 2005 04:36 PM | Link to this
okay, maybe not That phonetically but ‘typos’ happen.
there was something going around awhile back not even phonetically, it proved we really read the first/last characters, the middles could be way out of order, and we read in context as well. it was interesting, you probably saw it.
By ANGIE
August 23, 2005 04:37 PM | Link to this
Boscoe, sorry but it’s going to be tomorrow before I can get back with you on this. Too much going on at work today!!! Will talk to you before my trip.
By Heather
August 23, 2005 04:37 PM | Link to this
ROTFL
By kimberly
August 23, 2005 04:38 PM | Link to this
buildingbridges, I have heard that such an animal exists, and I’ve known many men who purport to be such, but these beings of which you speak do not exist in these parts. Again, they’ll just go next door.
By Questions
August 23, 2005 04:39 PM | Link to this
COYOTE on the blog? unions? Gasp
and the slut award goes to ….Surely than can be a man’s name as well?
By George and Jesus
August 23, 2005 04:46 PM | Link to this
When I was growing up, my father gave me some sage and prophetic advice. He said, “Son:
When you are in high school you will need a 3-pack of condoms - one for Friday, one for Saturday, and one for Sunday.
When you are in college you will need a 6-pack of condoms- two for Friday, two for Saturday and two for Sunday.
And when you are married you will need a 12-pack of condoms - one for January, one for February, one for March, etc, etc..
Have a nice night.
By taboga
August 23, 2005 04:50 PM | Link to this
Anyone ever wondered what a blog would be without all the personal testimonies?
Does anyone know of a site that you can visit where people understand points made in a general sense?
It can be irritating to make a comment which suggests that female cows produce milk. Only to have someone give testimony about a female cow that they saw which didn’t”. And therefore my statement is: *false.
By Sandy/Sanhan
August 23, 2005 04:56 PM | Link to this
Eleven people were hanging on a rope under a helicopter, ten men and one woman. The rope was not strong enough to carry them all, so they decided that one had to leave, because otherwise they were all going to fall. They weren’t able to choose that person, until the woman gave a very touching speech. She said that she would voluntarily let go of the rope, because, as a woman, she was used to giving up everything for her husband and kids, or for men in general, and was used to always making sacrifices with little in return.
As soon as she finished her speech, all the men started clapping their hands…….
By buildingbridges
August 23, 2005 04:58 PM | Link to this
kimberly - LMAO…true, so true. So the point is to live next door or are we wanting to avoid the next door?
By taboga
August 23, 2005 04:59 PM | Link to this
Great point Sandy. And it does work like that even though most men are totally unaware of it.
By taboga
August 23, 2005 05:02 PM | Link to this
Dimberly,
You see, when they started clapping hands - they came loose from the rope…
I know you were stuck on that “clapping hands” part.
By Jennifer
August 24, 2005 07:16 AM | Link to this
Taboga - sorry in the delayed response…meetings. ; ( I must say, that I agree with you. Having 2 children on different ends of the spectrum has opened my eyes soo much. Much of the problem does lie with the parents but when you have an involved parent…the system ties one hand behind your back and then asks you why you didn’t try harder. How do we fix this? I am almost leaning towards licensing people who want to have children. I know - a little extreme, but we as a society end up dealing with these wayward youths…not the parents. My husband and I are raising his 16 year old brother and oh my goodness the issues he has. Every step of the way it is… ’ What have you done to help him?’ You name it…it has been done. Why is he so screwed up - His father who ‘smoked him up at 10’ and his now deceased mother who died from alcoholism. Now we didn’t create this problem. The boy has now put us in a position where we are having to make him a ward of the state in order to get him help. This sucks. Don’t want to do it either…but…we are legally responsible for his mistakes and in the 3 years we have had him, the law has been to our house 2 times. Not to mention the fact that we want him to have a good life even though he is bound and determined to make it hard.
How do we prevent this from happening to any child…require parents to have a Parenting License.
‘At least when the Communists ran their socialist indoctrination camps (schools) they didn’t forget to teach them to read and write.’ The US is low on the education scale in regards to the world.
By Chris
August 24, 2005 07:44 AM | Link to this
Although I am a firm believer in the separation of church and state, I do think that the choice to teach the bible as an elective in public high schools would be a wise decision. (I will only focus on the Christian movement rather than Judaism because I am more familiar with the former) Churches and denominations have their way of interpretation, which can be very narrow and ahistorical. Without proper teaching of context and the room for discussion and question, religious faith can turn into a form of extremism. I think that offering another perspective on a widely popular topic would be beneficial to the public because it would foster a larger view of religion and increase conversation. Right now, there is hardly any actual conversation going on, it is only a war of words aimed at deconstructing one tradition while building up our own. With knowledge and discussion, we can avoid religious extremism and save the world from another Pat Robertson or Jerry Falwell.
By Ken
August 24, 2005 07:46 AM | Link to this
Parenting License…?
Would that be like a driver’s license…? If so, what’s the point. Two thirds of the drivers in Atlanta have no business behind the wheel. Parenting would then become like our morning rush hour, the car wreckage of society.
There was once a time when men and women chose to share their life together and then children became a product of that relationship. Of course there have always been exceptions, but that was the norm accepted by society.
Unfortunately, those exceptions are now becoming more of the norm.
Until society starts to put forth the idea that realtionships are not disposable and that children are not accessories, we will continue to have issues with education and the raising of our children. That statement also crosses all socie-economic bounds. People need to think about their children before careers, bigger houses, shinier cars and I can’t believe Im saying this, but yes even Playstation (I heard a story the other day from a guy about how he yelled at his daughter b/c she accidentally turned of his Playstation… Are you kidding me…?).
And before folks get in a tizzy about sexuality and accidents happen… You’re all correct… People are gonig to have sex and accidents do happen… But accidents are just that… accidents. When it becomes more than that, accidents become a society issue.
By Ben
August 24, 2005 08:02 AM | Link to this
I just wanted to point out that it wouldn’t matter if women went on strike as long as there’s Internet porn. The end result is the same without the hassle. But if they went on cooking dinner strike — Houston, we have a problem!
By taboga
August 24, 2005 08:02 AM | Link to this
With knowledge and discussion, we can avoid religious extremism and save the world from another Pat Robertson or Jerry Falwell.
…Or Osama Bin Laden and all the Mullahs and Clerics of Radical Islam who believe that all Non-Muslims are possessed by the devil and need to be beheaded in the name of Allah.
Maybe we could “save the world” from the real extremists?
By Raylene
August 24, 2005 08:05 AM | Link to this
i agree that some people shouldnt have children, but how are we going to stop them? people(in general, no matter what age) have sex at least once in their lifetimes, and unless you can completely stop people that shouldnt have kids from having sex, then they will have sex and run the risk of having kids. there really is nothing we can do about it.
By Dan
August 24, 2005 08:18 AM | Link to this
So many people who use the phrase separation of church and state have no idea what they are talking about. I am not a religious person and I certainly don’t care to live in a theocracy. But teaching a bible course in school would not lead to a theocracy, it hasn’t in the first 230 years of our country and throughout the history religion has been imbedded in the government and schools far more than it is today. Furthermore anyone who boasts having an optional class is unconstitutional is simply ignorant of the constitution. The first amendment says “Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof” While there is much intended ambiguity and room for interpretation in the constitution, there is little as it pertains to that statement. There is certainly a reasonable debate as to whether or not there should be an amendment to broaden the definition, but that is a legislative process not a judicial one, as it stands now the only act that would be counter to the constitution would be for congress to make a law for or against religion. Indeed any law prohibiting the teaching of a class of any religion would be unconstitutional. The current wave of reversing societal and cultural religious symbols has simply become a secular attack on religion. The irony is that they attack and single out christianity in the name of tolerance. Be careful lest you become what you detest.
By Tony
August 24, 2005 08:24 AM | Link to this
After being interviewed by the school administration, the eager teaching prospect said:
“Let me see if I’ve got this right. You want me to go into that room with all those kids and fill their every waking moment with a love for learning. And I’m supposed to instill a sense of pride in their ethnicity, modify their disruptive behavior, observe them for signs of abuse and even censor their T shirt messages and dress habits.
You want me to wage a war on drugs and sexually transmitted diseases, check their backpacks for weapons of mass destruction, and raise their self esteem. You want me to teach them patriotism, good citizenship, sportsmanship, and fair play, how and where to register to vote, how to balance a checkbook, and how to apply for a job. I am to check their heads for lice, maintain a safe environment, recognize signs of antisocial behavior, offer advice, write letters of recommendation for student employment and scholarships, encourage respect for the cultural diversity of others, and, oh yeah, always make sure that I give the girls in my class 50 percent of my attention.
My contract requires me to work on my own time after school and evenings grading papers. Also, I must spend my summer vacation at my own expense, working toward advance certification and a Master’s degree. And on my own time you want me to attend committee and faculty meetings, PTA meetings, and participate in staff development training. I am to be a paragon of virtue, larger than life, such that my very presence will awe my students into being obedient and respectful of authority. And I am to pledge allegiance to family values and this current administration.
You want me to incorporate technology into the learning experience, monitor web sites, and relate personally with each student. That includes deciding who might be potentially dangerous and/or liable to commit a crime in school. I am to make sure all students pass the state mandatory exams, even those who don’t come to school regularly or complete any of their assignments. Plus, I am to make sure that all of the students with handicaps get an equal education regardless of the extent of their mental or physical handicap. And I am to communicate regularly with the parents by letter, telephone, newsletter, and report card.
All of this I am to do with just a piece of chalk, a computer, a few books, a bulletin board, and a big smile AND on a starting salary that qualifies my family for food stamps!
You want me to do all of this, and you expect me NOT TO PRAY?”
Author Unknown
By Jack
August 24, 2005 08:35 AM | Link to this
Heather. Your post demonstrates why women rule the world. Women control half the money and all of the coochie.
By Jack
August 24, 2005 08:43 AM | Link to this
Now Ben. You know internet porn doesn’t even compare to the real thing. Madam Palm and her 5 daughters just don’t get it. LOL
By Archie
August 24, 2005 08:51 AM | Link to this
Jack if women rule the world why do they complain so much? They do control all the c…chie. Good job Tony.
By Jack
August 24, 2005 08:59 AM | Link to this
These Delta pop-ups are getting on my nerves.
By Raylene
August 24, 2005 09:00 AM | Link to this
i wish i ruled the world. there sure as hell wouldnt be a war right now, if i did.
By taboga
August 24, 2005 09:05 AM | Link to this
Jack if women rule the world why do they complain so much?
That’s how they keep their rule. Women have an inherent ability to make men feel sorry for them - in order to get what they want.
By taboga
August 24, 2005 09:06 AM | Link to this
These Delta pop-ups are getting on my nerves.
Amen.
By Whiley
August 24, 2005 09:23 AM | Link to this
“That’s how they keep their rule. Women have an inherent ability to make men feel sorry for them - in order to get what they want. “
That’s a lie because that’s never worked in the history of the world. If that did work there would be no such thing as domestic violence & murder,no war, there would be safe birth control, fairness in the workforce, equal shared responsibility in the home,nowhere in the world women would have to wear burkas, etc etc etc.
If I ruled the world, sex offenders, & serial killers would all be executed, pornographers would be in prison camps forced to watch Pat Robinson, violent people would be drugged into calming down. And that James kid from Aruba would be forced to take the same date rape drugs he slipped Natalee Holloway & have his lifeless body thrown in a prison with sex offenders.
By Just Being Me
August 24, 2005 09:24 AM | Link to this
JENNIFER - I’ve always agreed with Parental Licensure. Just haven’t been able to work out the logistics…
But, then, I also think that Marriage Licensure should come with with a mandatory 6 mo. counseling certificate of completion…
Hey George You really, REALLY make Christians look bad, dude. You have absolutely no self-control over the things you say, and no compassion whatsoever. Whether Mara said it first or not, how could you possibly know enough about her to agree or disagree that she would not make a good mother? In the depths of your heart, that was meant to be a cheap shot - and it was.
And, by the way, something is terribly wrong if your dad suggests that you would need a condom to have sex with your wife. :-)
By Ben
August 24, 2005 09:29 AM | Link to this
It doesn’t compare Jack, but it is a viable alternative to the striking holders of all that is desirable. lol.
By NoPopUps
August 24, 2005 09:35 AM | Link to this
Delta popups? what Delta popups?
I get no popups at this site.
By ANGIE
August 24, 2005 09:38 AM | Link to this
Boscoe, I was up late getting some information together for you & saved it to a disc. However, halfway to work I realized I left the disc at home. If you will please contact me via email I will get the info sent to you. (However, it will be Tuesday before I’ll be able to get to my email since I’m leaving for my trip today.)
Besides, there is no way I can provide you with an adequate answer in the limited space on this forum. (The other people probably aren’t interested in our debate anyway.)
If you’re interested in finding out the information I came up with then feel free to email me at: signsbyroscoe@yahoo.com (P.S.I promise not to flood your email account. I have a 3 page summary that outlines everything and then it’s up to you to do the research on the topics given.) I look forward to hearing from you. Have a great weekend! If anyone else is interested in the information you can email me as well.
By Heather
August 24, 2005 09:46 AM | Link to this
Okay, so we women control the world huh? Unfortunately, we women are not able to get our acts together enough for that either. We are too busy gossiping about each other behind each others backs. We are too busy wondering if so and so’s husband finds us attractive. We are too busy thinking things like,”boy, is she fat.”
But you guys had better watch out, because once we do, things are going to change around this place. :)
By Heather
August 24, 2005 09:49 AM | Link to this
Angie, you are certainly intense sister. smiles I’m glad you are on “our” side.
By ReligiousWarriors
August 24, 2005 09:49 AM | Link to this
alright ANGIE way to go!
Can we all give ANGIE a CONGRATS! FINALLY
dayum
By Jack
August 24, 2005 09:50 AM | Link to this
Hey Whiley, the Cobb County School Superintendent resigned yesterday because of the flack he caught about the laptops. Hope he enjoys retirement.
By Whiley
August 24, 2005 09:55 AM | Link to this
“Unfortunately, we women are not able to get our acts together enough for that either. We are too busy gossiping about each other behind each others backs. We are too busy wondering if so and so’s husband finds us attractive. We are too busy thinking things like,â€?boy, is she fat.â€?”
OK, uh, Heather WHO in the WORLD do you associate with????Women don’t act like that ! That’s like saying men don’t rule the world because they are too busy watching porn & fishing.
Hey Jack, I heard that too ! hehehe
By Heather
August 24, 2005 10:06 AM | Link to this
Men don’t rule the world because they are too busy robbing, stealing, and murdering each other.
By Raylene
August 24, 2005 10:10 AM | Link to this
hey! women rob, steal and murder too!
By Just Being Me
August 24, 2005 10:11 AM | Link to this
HEATHER - I can only speak for myself. I may not gossip or wonder who’s husband finds me attractive (couldn’t care less), but I do think things like, “Boy, is she fat.”
But, (1) that does not keep me so “busy” that I can’t have my “act together,” and (2) fat is fat.
What’s the difference between saying, “boy, does she have nice hair” and saying, “boy, is she fat”?
Some women are fat. Those women need to lose some weight so that they can become better pictures of health (and help control the costs of health care), live longer lives, etc. These are facts, not opinions.
By Ben
August 24, 2005 10:16 AM | Link to this
Men rob, steal and murder because of women.
By Heather
August 24, 2005 10:21 AM | Link to this
You people have sort of missed the point. Good grief. We women can’t band together because, on a whole, we are too busy competing with each other, and we are, on a whole, rather selfish. Now if you are one of the women that doesn’t apply to, then please start the revolution and get the rest of us on board!!
I don’t think that is going to happen when we can’t even agree not to have unprotected sex. How are we ever going to agree not to have sex at all? That was how we were going to take over the world, right?
By Raylene
August 24, 2005 10:21 AM | Link to this
well obviously JustBeingMe is a skinny person. otherwise, she wouldnt talk like that. some people cant help being fat. they try their whole lives to loose weight and cant. so maybe you should keep that in mind.
By Renee
August 24, 2005 10:26 AM | Link to this
Some women are fat. Those women need to lose some weight so that they can become better pictures of health (and help control the costs of health care), live longer lives, etc. These are facts, not opinions.
True, some women are fat, but stating they need to lose some weight is a bit much. People can be whatever size they want to be, and just because someone is not looking anorexic does not mean they NEED to lose weight. The fact that they NEED to lose weight is YOUR opinion, they could be quite content with their weight no matter what it is.
By Heather
August 24, 2005 10:29 AM | Link to this
LOL, Ben. Just how is that women cause men to rob, steal, and murder?
By Bruce
August 24, 2005 10:30 AM | Link to this
OK Whiley we have sat back and listened to your hogwash of the victimized women of the world but when you start in on fishing you’ve gone too far. You women have your shopping malls and we men have fishing, leave it at that please.
By Just Being Me
August 24, 2005 10:32 AM | Link to this
RAYLENE - It doesn’t matter whether I’m at a healthy weight or overweight (I retract my use of the word “fat”, it’s a derogatory term that I shouldn’t have used. But, for the record, I was quoting Heather).
Yes, some people do try for all their lives to lose weight, but how many of them use sensible, HEALTHY methods? How many just use the newest rave in diets? My comments are more geared towards a person’s health as it relates to their weight, not their appearance. If people who are overweight would simply adapt better eating and exercise habits, I’m sure they’d be a lot healthier than they are now. And, if they are CONSISTENT, those good eating and exercise habits would probably reflect in their weight.
Thus creating a healthier gender, a healthier culture, a healthier America.
By Tim
August 24, 2005 10:33 AM | Link to this
Raylene… very true… and being too thin can actually lead to health problems as well… my step mom pays higher health insurance because she is ‘too thin’ (5’9” 118lbs)… of course that is probably just an excuse to get more money out of her lol
By steve
August 24, 2005 10:38 AM | Link to this
Dan, In regards to your post on August 24, 2005 08:18 AM, Great comments - I hope everyone else on weighing in on this discussion read them.
By Whiley
August 24, 2005 10:40 AM | Link to this
“We women can’t band together because, on a whole, we are too busy competing with each other, and we are, on a whole, rather selfish. “
Heather, do you live in Pakistan? Or are you one of those child brides in Utah?
By Whiley
August 24, 2005 10:45 AM | Link to this
“hey! women rob, steal and murder too!”
But according to Heather, we only steal hair care products & makeup, & only murder if we’ve been cheated on or there is a prettier girl in the room.
By Raylene
August 24, 2005 10:46 AM | Link to this
besides, a person’s weight, or looks shouldnt determine the kind of person they are. their personality should. so many people judge on color/race, looks, weight. ever heard the term “skinny little b*tch”? there may be a reason for that…. why should someone have to be a size 2 to be a good person, or cool person?
By Heather
August 24, 2005 10:49 AM | Link to this
Whiley, whiley, whiley. 1+1=2 2+2=4 4+4=16
Memorize that and then we will move on to harder subjects.
By Archie
August 24, 2005 10:49 AM | Link to this
Whiley I like parts of you 9:23 am post but I really liked Heather’s 10:21 post. Selfish is a good word to describe some of today’s women. Whiley some of you don’t do a good with the housework and that is an understatement. I do think it would be more peaceful if women really ruled the world and I would like to see a woman president, I really would.
By whiley
August 24, 2005 10:49 AM | Link to this
” You women have your shopping malls and we men have fishing, leave it at that please. “
ROFL ! OK DEAL. (WHAT if the mall has a fishing supply store?)
By Heather
August 24, 2005 10:51 AM | Link to this
LOL - I just realized that 4 + 4 actually = 8. Thats what I get for being a smartbutt.
By the way, I was just kidding with you Whiley. Make sure you change your notes, teacher made a mistake.
4x4=16 4+4=8
By Tim
August 24, 2005 10:53 AM | Link to this
speaking of bigger women did any see “Mo’nique’s Fat Chance”… now that is one FINE big dark sista… if I were straight… lord help :)
By Adriane
August 24, 2005 10:56 AM | Link to this
I’m 37 years old and I remember very clearly at the beginning of each day in school, we would say the “Pledge of Allegiance, Sing “My country tis of thee…”, and THEN we would ALL have a minute of silence for PRAYER. Now let’s talk about the PLEDGE. How can we talk about being one nation UNDER GOD and not talk or even want to discuss religion in schools. We wonder why the kids of today are what seem like “Loosing their minds”. What do we expect? Common sense should tell us, let’s go back and seek the old path. The path that worked. Let’s face it. Prayer Works! It works Today, worked yesterday and it will forever more. It is the only thing that brings about a change for the good of all mankind. You can’t talk about prayer and not talk about religion. Once Again, the old path, we were talk about all forms of religion and we would touch on what they believed and that’s it. We didn’t go into depth, but it was enough for people to form their opinion. For the most part you believed what your family believed anyway, but at least you were informed. See, we want to act like this country was founded on religion but we don’t want it to be taught. For those who say I don’t know what I’m talking about, Look at your money, talk to your President, talk to the people around you they believe and have faith in something or Someone. If what the schools teach is not acceptable to you, then YOU TEACH YOUR KIDS WHAT YOU THINK IS THE TRUTH. (If you have any influence) You know something else, it’s amazing that when kids are getting killed in the schools, the first thing this country wants to do is pray, but when things seems to be ok (especially with our own kids) then we don’t need prayer. I don’t know about you, but I pray for my kids everyday, try to pray with them before they leave and teach them to pray for themselves, anytime and in every situation. Give me a break and stop “Pimping God”. Don’t use him only when he it’s convenient. And for those who think that they will never need him or need to pray. Wait awhile. Wait until something happens to your kid in school and see who needs someone to pray for them. Or what if it’s your kid that DOESN’T KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT ANY TYPE OF RELIGION, COMMANDMENTS OF THE BIBLE OR ANYTHING, and KILLS SOMEONE. WHAT WOULD BE YOUR THOUGHTS THEN?
By Raylene
August 24, 2005 10:57 AM | Link to this
No one in America is actually healthy. get real. and i know people that eat healthy and exercise, and still are “overweight”. skinny people are not healthy if they smoke, or drink. so tell me again how being the “correct” weight makes you healthy.
By Ben
August 24, 2005 10:57 AM | Link to this
Well Heather, I will try and keep it simple and short. The majority of men would perfectly happy living in a 1 bedroom apartment with a Lazy Boy, big screen and a cooler next to the chair. A motorcycle would make us happy; no need for minivans or SUVs. They would be happy with just enough money to keep the cooler full and large pizzas. We would have nothing to fight about other than whose team was better and whether it was a foul or a bad call. No need to shave regularly, worry about brown or black socks, collared shirt or T-Shirt, which tie to wear, etc. Have on two pairs of jeans and sweatpants.
But since women are in the picture we have to have good jobs, nice houses, nice cars — everything to impress you, or win over your heart. We have to stay in shape and shave on a regular basis. Wear decent clothes and have stimulating conversation. We have to be better than the next guy. That’s A LOT of pressure for us, and it causes us to get frustrated and do things we normally wouldn’t do. We have to rob to help obtain materials on the list, we have to steal for what we can’t earn, and we have to murder because sometimes the competition is too stiff. All for women.
By Renee
August 24, 2005 10:59 AM | Link to this
Just because you are overweight does not mean you are not healthy. People make too big a deal over weight. If you are not happy with your weight then change it. If you are and you feel you are healthy, then stay where you are.
There are a lot of “skinny” people who are unhealthy and out of shape. And personally, I am not eating like a bird because some chart says I am a percentage over weight for my height. I think women are more attractive with a little meat on their bones, give more bounce to the ounce…haha!
By Archie
August 24, 2005 11:00 AM | Link to this
Some women are already making Heather’s point by denying things that are totally objective. Some women do need to lose weight plain and simple, especially in the south. I mean on the front page of this paper there’s an article that says the southern states are where the fattest people live. That doesn’t mean just women but men too. Fat men need to lose weight and that’s not an insult just the truth. You can’t talk about diabetes,high blood pressure,aching joints, and not talk about weight. This is where the selfishness and competitiveness that Heather spoke of comes into play. In order to run things you have to be able to withstand harsh criticism.
By Tim
August 24, 2005 11:02 AM | Link to this
and more cushion for the pushin
By mike
August 24, 2005 11:04 AM | Link to this
The real question should be: Should we allow state police in our churches? The framers of our Constitution had a very good reason for separating church and state. Bible study is for churches. Secular education is for schools. Allowing Bible study in schools seems innocuous and beneficial. Just remember the other side of the equation.
By Heather
August 24, 2005 11:11 AM | Link to this
Ben, so if we women liked living in a 1 bedroom, watching TV, eating junk food, wearing dirty clothes right along with you guys, do you think all robbing, stealing, and murdering would end?
By FunnyOne
August 24, 2005 11:13 AM | Link to this
First they came for the drinkers, and I did not speak out, since I did not care, for I did not drink, and never liked those drunks anyway.
Then they came for the smokers, and I did not speak out, since I did not care, for I did not smoke, and never liked those smokers anyway, always polluting up the air when I jogged on the boulevard.
and then they came for the fat people, and I spoke out, since I was fat, “Please help me, this is not right”.
but there was nobody left who could have cared and nobody spoke out to protect me.
and the Fat Police hauled me away to Gitmo.
By Renee
August 24, 2005 11:13 AM | Link to this
Nobody NEEDS to lose weight unless they feel like THEY want to. Nobody should stop smoking unless they feel like THEY want to. We are responsible for our own bodies and we have to answer to the consequences of our behavior.
We are all going to die of something someday. We can prolong it, but we are going.
And I don’t know about anyone else, but all the diabetics I know except for one are skinny.
If we get into what people NEED to do, we could be here all day. Maybe we should better ourselves and keep a closer eye on ourselves. Who cares if the South is fat. I just moved up north and miss that Southern cooking.
By Just Being Me
August 24, 2005 11:14 AM | Link to this
RENEE - You are dealing with issues of vanity or appearance, not issues of health. We’re on two different pages. Any person, man or woman, who is overweight (using a medical definition of the term) needs to lose weight, and this is not an opinion, this is a fact. I couldn’t care less who is content and who is not. Someone could be content smoking crack, that doesn’t mean that they don’t need to quit for health reasons. Contentment has nothing to do with health.
I never said or implied that a person who doesn’t appear to be anorexic needs to lose weight. Not only is that an ignorant comment, but it’s also ridiculous. I would never make such an idiotic statement. What I am saying, though, is that anyone who is significantly overweight needs to lose weight whether they are content or not. Just like anyone who is significantly underweight needs to gain weight.
YOUR comments, not mine, are opinion-based.
By Bruce
August 24, 2005 11:16 AM | Link to this
ROFL ! OK DEAL. (WHAT if the mall has a fishing supply store?)
Then we will go with you but please keep you cellphone on so we can call you when we are ready to leave. I usually go to the jewerly store FIRST. Then I can buy what ever I want at BPS…..
By Ben
August 24, 2005 11:22 AM | Link to this
Heather - Fat chance of that happening because you would still be women — fighting for the dirtiest clothes, best tv and Lazy Boy. It’s neverending, no solution. Women, in any situation, bring out the worst in men.
By Tim
August 24, 2005 11:24 AM | Link to this
OMG what is happening to me???? I knew what Bruce meant by BPS… lol
By Renee
August 24, 2005 11:25 AM | Link to this
Justbeingme
This is my point. I could go to the doctor’s office today. He could say in his medical “opinion” I need to lose weight because if I don’t, I’m going to die in 5 days. Doesn’t mean I NEED to lose weight. Maybe in MY personal “opinion” I don’t. I can find another doctor whose medical “opinion” is I don’t need to lose weight because I have another 5 years to live. Nobody knows. Doctors give medical “opinions” and medical “advice”. Usually based upon what health plan you have.
I don’t smoke, I’m not overweight, feel perfectly healthy and if I go to the doctor I BET he will advise I eat more “healthy” and I should lose weight. WHY?? So I can meet his standards of healthy, society’s standards of healthy, so I can fit the “ideal” woman size standard. PUHLEEZE!! I’m not speaking about vanity or appearance. But you can tell yourself you need to lose weight for your healthy but you can’t tell me or anybody else they need to lose weight for their health. You can give opinions, but why does anyone else’s health matter to you.
By kimberly
August 24, 2005 11:26 AM | Link to this
Ladies, if you want to lose weight, you must give up your anti-depressants. The withdrawal is a nightmare; your life and those of everyone around you will be HELL. For awhile anyway. But KNOW THIS: Americans will forgive “crazy” WAYYYY before they forgive “fat.”
It’s not about right or wrong. Whether you eat a piece of carrot cake for lunch is NOT a “character” issue. People act like it’s some great virtue to be narcissistic and “take care of yourself.” If you ignore your family for an extra three hours a day to jog and go to the gym, you will receive high praise for your virtue and character by our misogynistic culture. But the FACT is, (I know this now) Americans will forgive murder, psychosis, and even fringe political beliefs before they forgive you for an extra 30 pounds. (1)Give up the ‘scrips (2) Eat no more than 1500 calories a day - this results in further psychosis (3) Exercise through your anger and pychotic episodes. When you’re thin, you’ll be welcomed back to our shallow, narcissistic, unrealistic, superficial society with much praise, acceptance, and offers of freaky nights. —Been There and DONE IT!—
By Raylene
August 24, 2005 11:27 AM | Link to this
Justbeingme- unless you are a doctor or nurse, your “facts” mean nothing. you have no right to tell people how they should live their lives. and i am sorry to tell you this fact not every person in America will ever be completely heathly
By Just Being Me
August 24, 2005 11:28 AM | Link to this
Okay, you know what, RAYLENE and RENEE? I can’t have this conversation with you. Not because I’m not up for the debate, but because for the life of me, I cannot figure out how any reasonable woman could possibly DENY that being overweight is a health problem. Even an overweight person with good sense should be able to objectively discuss the fact that there are health problems associated with being overweight, come on. Give me a break.
I don’t care who is overweight and who is not. I am smart enough (and OBJECTIVE enough) to know that an overweight person needs to lose some weight - WHETHER IT HURTS TO HEAR IT OR NOT
RAYLENE: You said skinny people are not healthy if they smoke, or drink
We’re not talking about smoking or drinking. We’re talking about WEIGHT. I know it hurts to talk about it, but changing the focus of subject won’t help.
RENEE: You said, If you are not happy with your weight then change it. If you are and you feel you are healthy, then stay where you are.
I agree in part. If you ARE healthy, sure you should “stay where you are.” But, “feeling” healthy and being healthy are two different things, sis. A smoker can feel healthy all his life, even up to the day he is diagnosed with lung cancer (and no, I’m not saying all smokers will get cancer). An overweight person can “feel” healthy all his life, even up to the day he is told he is diabetic, or has heart disease, or bad feet.
Who gives a darn about feelings. It doesn’t matter whether a person FEELS healthy, what matters is what a doctor (who, by the way spent umpteen years studying to become one) says about your health.
ARCHIE I totally agree. Feels good to hear someone talking with some sense.
By FunnyOne
August 24, 2005 11:32 AM | Link to this
Is that why most fishing supply stores are in stand-alone buildings or small strip malls, and not at the mall? so some poor sap does not get dragged to the mall?
smart move, fishing supply stores, smart move. and we thank you.
By Raylene
August 24, 2005 11:35 AM | Link to this
i am not overweight. thats not the point. all i was saying is that you cant tell people that they need to lose weight. plain and simple. its not your place. so shut up about it already. you brought it up, and no one else thinks that you should be the one to tell someone they need to lose weight. let a doctor tell them that. and can i just add, that people can be considered over/underweight by a mere 2 pounds depending on their height.
By Renee
August 24, 2005 11:40 AM | Link to this
You are too funny justbeingme.
Usually unhealthy people don’t feel healthy. Hence them going to the doctor and being diagnosed with whatever is wrong with them. Healthy people don’t feel unhealthy (unless they are health nuts) and unhealthy people don’t feel healthy.
I would love to debate with you but a piece of fried chicken is calling my name for lunch! Maybe a cookie for dessert.
I’m sure justbeingme, that you are the posterchild of health.
Raylene, your turn. hahaha
By Heather
August 24, 2005 11:41 AM | Link to this
Women in any situation bring out the worst in men??? Ben, I must say that sounds like an excuse to me. Women can bring out the best in men as well. I guess the question should be whether there is anything good in men to bring out?
By Saul Olvera-Rubio
August 24, 2005 11:42 AM | Link to this
Ok people…this is really a ridiculous thing (to try and teach the Bible in PUBLIC GOVERNMENT SCHOOLS) Here’s one of the main issues - which version and by who are we going to allow into the schools? One may say the Congregational Bible (liberal) or the Roman Catholic Bible (conservative). There are differances between Bibles you know. Also, please save the Bible for Sunday SCHOOL. Public schools have a general requirement which is to teach the fundamentals of an education ie Mathematics, English, Sciences, and Social Studies. If we’re going to have the Bible in schools, then you’ll have to allow the Koran and other very influential books.
Oooh, how about this: For you Protestants, would you like a Roman Catholic priest (with an education degree worthy of teaching in public schools) want your child to learn the Bible from a Catholic? Your child may see the light and vice versa.
Be real people - Don’t deviate from the general education core.
By Tony
August 24, 2005 11:42 AM | Link to this
Why do we have to learn all of this dumb stuff?”
Of all the complaints and questions I have heard from my students during my years in the classroom, this was the one most frequently uttered. I would answer it by recounting the following legend.
One night a group of nomads were preparing to retire for the evening when suddenly they were surrounded by a great light. They knew they were in the presence of a celestial being. With great anticipation, they awaited a heavenly message of great importance that they knew must be especially for them.
Finally, the voice spoke, “Gather as many pebbles as you can. Put them in your saddle bags. Travel a day’s journey and tomorrow night will find you glad and it will find you sad.”
After having departed, the nomads shared their disappointment and anger with each other. They had expected the revelation of a great universal truth that would enable them to create wealth, health and purpose for the world. But instead they were given a menial task that made no sense to them at all. However, the memory of the brilliance of their visitor caused each one to pick up a few pebbles and deposit them in their saddle bags while voicing their displeasure.
They traveled a day’s journey and that night while making camp, they reached into their saddle bags and discovered every pebble they had gathered had become a diamond. They were glad they had diamonds. They were sad they had not gathered more pebbles.
It was an experience I had with a student, I shall call Alan, early in my teaching career that illustrated the truth of that legend to me.
When Alan was in the eighth grade, he majored in “trouble” with a minor in “suspensions.” He had studied how to be a bully and was getting his master’s in “thievery.”
Every day I had my students memorize a quotation from a great thinker. As I called roll, I would begin a quotation. To be counted present, the student would be expected to finish the thought.
“Alice Adams - ‘There is no failure except …’” “‘In no longer trying.’ I’m present, Mr. Schlatter.”
So, by the end of the year, my young charges would have memorized 150 great thoughts.
“Think you can, think you can’t - either way you’re right!”
“If you can see the obstacles, you’ve taken your eyes off the goal.”
“A cynic is someone who knows the price of everything and the value of nothing.”
And, of course, Napoleon Hill’s “If you can conceive it, and believe it, you can achieve it.”
No one complained about this daily routine more than Alan - right up to the day he was expelled and I lost touch with him for five years. Then one day, he called. He was in a special program at one of the neighboring colleges and had just finished parole.
He told me that after being sent to juvenile hall and finally being shipped off to the California Youth Authority for his antics, he had become so disgusted with himself that he had taken a razor blade and cut his wrists.
He said, “You know what, Mr. Schlatter, as I lay there with my life running out of my body, I suddenly remembered that dumb quote you made me write 20 times one day. ‘There is no failure except in no longer trying.’ Then it suddenly made sense to me. As long as I was alive, I wasn’t a failure, but if I allowed myself to die, I would most certainly die a failure. So with my remaining strength, I called for help and started a new life.”
At the time he had heard the quotation, it was a pebble. When he needed guidance in a moment of crisis, it had become a diamond.
And so it is to you I say, gather all the pebbles you can, and you can count on a future filled with diamonds.
by: John W. Schlatter,
By FunnyOne
August 24, 2005 11:48 AM | Link to this
FACT:
Almost as many people die annually from obesity-related problems as do from tobacco-use-related problems. feel free to do your own research on the exact numbers.
Yet we(government/culture) went after one but not the other.
By Ben
August 24, 2005 11:54 AM | Link to this
Ahhh, but Heather. The good in men is seldom discussed, for no amount of good can remove the dark cloud brought on by the bad.
By Heather
August 24, 2005 11:56 AM | Link to this
I think we are talking about two different things here with the weight issue. There is prejudice against overweight people and then there is the fact that overweight people need to lose weight, which is a personal decision that can only be made by the overweight person.
My point when I brought this up, which I believe has been thoroughly proven by this discussion, is that we women look at each other’s bodies and grade them. We judge other women as being thinner or fatter than we are. We also grade each others faces and attractiveness. If a woman pipes in here and denies this, they are lying. I am not saying we are necessarily cruel in the way we do this, although some of us are, but we do judge and grade each other on their appearance.
By Sandy/Sanhan
August 24, 2005 11:57 AM | Link to this
“Make no judgment where you have no compassion.”
Whether we judge someone’s weight and appearance or their spiritual views, it’s still judgment. It provides us with a quick, definitive method of communication, but it often leaves broken hearts and spirits in its wake, and rarely does it celebrate personal variations. It is often thoughtless and baseless, and rarely do the dispensers take the time to determine their own underlying feelings, let alone those of the judged. Judgment is often an inadequate substitute for real dialogue, as we witness daily on this blog.
The roots of judgment lie in the bias of our own experiences. It is rooted in the fear that there is not enough good stuff to go around in this world, that we must compete for it.
Imagine if we could transcend this, to conduct our lives in a way that suggests that the universe has provided us with everything we need, but it’s up to us to see that it is distributed properly to ensure our mutual, peaceful survival? If the emphasis is placed thusly, then the issues of where were came from creationwise, and where we’re going when our bodies die, sort of fall into the background, and we find the common purpose for humanity.
If you find it impossible to shed the idea of God as creator, I hardly think He or She would be displeased with the equalization of humankind, celebrating His/Her greatest creation.
Or we can continue the argument that “my personal spiritual relationship with God is better than your personal spiritual relationship with God.”
By taboga
August 24, 2005 12:00 PM | Link to this
Public schools have a general requirement which is to teach the fundamentals of an education ie Mathematics, English, Sciences, and Social Studies.
And doing a marvelous job of it!
By Grace
August 24, 2005 12:01 PM | Link to this
I believe the Bible should be taught in public school as an elective class. The Bible is not a book of religion, it is a book of relationships. There are so many aspects of the Bible that are beneficial (history, poetry, life lessons). Have you ever tried to talk to a bunch of middle and high school aged children about the Bible? They will open up and share with you things from the Bible and how it relates to their everyday lives. The Bible is always current and up-to-date and can be used to talk about current events. We are always crying about things that are wrong with our soceity; but if the basic principles taught in the Bible were to be followed it would be a much better world to live. For example, do unto others as you would have them do unto you. Eliminates lies, murder, and theft.
By Just Being Me
August 24, 2005 12:03 PM | Link to this
RAYLENE - First off, there’s no need to resort to telling anyone to “shut up.” I haven’t disrespected you in any way, so there’s no cause for you to do so to me. Just because you don’t like what I said doesn’t give you license to disrespect me. That was rude.
Secondly, if you scroll back up, you’ll see that I did not “bring it up” I believe someone commented that a part of the problem with women is that we can’t “get ourselves together” because we are too “busy” saying, “boy, is she fat.” I responded to that comment, and you responded to me.
Lastly, I will end my part in this discussion by reiterating what I said earlier: anyone who is significantly overweight needs to lose weight, and anyone who is significantly underweight needs to gain weight. If it makes you feel better to call it “opinion,” fine with me.
There are simply too many ailments, diseases and disorders associated with obesity for me to waste time having this conversation with you.
Respectfully yours,
JBM
By Raylene
August 24, 2005 12:08 PM | Link to this
my point with the smoking thing, was that there are other reasons that people are unheathly. i never said more people die from either. according to the “weight chart” i am considered underweight for my height. does that mean i need to gain some? i dont think i do, and i happen to eat more than would be expected. mr doctor doesnt think that i need to gain weight, so maybe Justbeingme, should keep her “facts” to herself.
By Jack
August 24, 2005 12:13 PM | Link to this
Nothing wrong with some “junk in the trunk”. I like women to have some meat on their bones. Yum!
By Raylene
August 24, 2005 12:15 PM | Link to this
i didnt disrespect you. i meant drop the subject by “shut up about it”. i wasnt telling you to shut up. and if you want to talk about disrespect, how about you disrespecting people’s right to be happy with themselves. my whole point(and i believe renee’s also)through this whole thing was that you have no right or reason to tell people that they need to lose weight, unless you yourself are a dr. i never disagreed that some people do, but you dont need to tell them.
By Ben
August 24, 2005 12:15 PM | Link to this
Grace - Not necessarily. I would love for someone to steal my car, I’m tired of the payment.
And by the way, smokers’ rights have already been bashed enough. Leave us alone before we wait outside your door to blow cancer smoke in your face.
By Archie
August 24, 2005 12:21 PM | Link to this
Heather there is prejudice against overweight people and people say some cruel things but if you’re fat, you’re fat. I don’t back down from saying that a fat person needs to lose weight. Taxpayers spent 39 billion dollars on obesity related problems. This isn’t a personal attack on anyone it’s just a statement of facts. Some lady filed a complaint against her doctor because he told her she needed to get on a program. Sometimes feelings have to get hurt so you can get better. Health professionals are concerned to say this obesity thing is a crisis. The body mass index is not the best tool to determine obesity because of how people get when they pump iron. However there are some tools available and of course a doctor would be the best person to direct you a course of action.
By Fran
August 24, 2005 12:23 PM | Link to this
One of the most important lessons from world history it seems to be the importance of the separation of church & goverment. Democracy & freedom must be for everybody and on every subject, including religion. Everybody has the right to belong or not a a religious group. Everybody has the right to believe or not in God. That is your choice. Public schools, funded in most part by the goverment=citizens=taxes, should be free of any religious contents. By the way, I am catholic and believe in the Bible and God. Still, I do not want ANY church or any religious believes in public places, including schools. We MUST respect everybodys different choices. If you are a religious person, go to church, send your children to a religious school (if you can afford it), but keep PUBLIC institutions FREE of any religious context.
By Jack
August 24, 2005 12:25 PM | Link to this
When a man loves a woman, he will do whatever makes her happy. Beg, borrow, and steal & murder included. LOL
By Raylene
August 24, 2005 12:28 PM | Link to this
go ben!
By Jack
August 24, 2005 12:31 PM | Link to this
Having a smoking section in a restaurant is like having a non peeing section in a swimming pool. Before you attack, I smoked for 25 years and quit. Hardest thing I ever did.
By Raylene
August 24, 2005 12:33 PM | Link to this
ben- i smoke too, that was my point that i know i am unheathly, but it is not because of my weight.
By Ben
August 24, 2005 12:41 PM | Link to this
Raylene - I wasn’t talking about the health benefits, I was referring more to the person who said put smokers on an island or some garbage like that. Honestly, I don’t worry about it, because I am healthy, smoker or not. I stay in good shape, and have always been in shape. As for the myth of smoking cancer, I think people are predisposed to cancer — which may explain why non-smokers get lung cancer. Smoking may accelerate that disposition, but it doesn’t cause it. In my opinion, of course.
By kimberly
August 24, 2005 12:46 PM | Link to this
Cigarettes are low-fat and sugar-free!
By Heather
August 24, 2005 12:48 PM | Link to this
Ben you are right about the good in men not being discussed enough. When I eventually do hook up and remarry, I am going to treat my husband like gold. He is going to be fully aware that all his good is appreciated. He is also not going to have all his bad thrown up in his face all the time.
Women do misuse their power over men. I can just hear Whiley coming back now to defend women again. I actually think it is terrible for a woman to deny her husband sex to punish him for not being the way she wants him to be. There are much better ways to handle that situation.
By Heather
August 24, 2005 12:50 PM | Link to this
Hey, we are finally talking about smoking.
By Bruce
August 24, 2005 12:52 PM | Link to this
Tim,
Knowing what BPS means is NOT A BAD THING, no matter what women say. Fishing is fun for everyone, just ask my two daughters and their Mom.
Archie,
“Taxpayers spent 39 billion dollars on obesity related problems.”
And they have taken PE out of schools to provide more time to study for test.
By Bruce
August 24, 2005 01:04 PM | Link to this
Fran,
But aren’t you disrespecting someones choice by not allowing them to express their religion in public instutions? Why shouldn’t I be allowed to express my religious beliefs on my desk/work area where I work? Why do you feel this way?
By Heather
August 24, 2005 01:08 PM | Link to this
What does BPS mean?
By Ben
August 24, 2005 01:11 PM | Link to this
Bass Pro Shop
By Raylene
August 24, 2005 01:15 PM | Link to this
i like to go fishing. just not to touch worms or the fish… uck. but i had fun when my dad would take me when i was younger.
By Heather
August 24, 2005 01:17 PM | Link to this
Ahh, my son’s favorite store. I love that place myself. The one over at Discover Mill? We can browse thru there all day.
By Raylene
August 24, 2005 01:17 PM | Link to this
i knew the bass pro part… just wasnt sure about the shop…
By Jack
August 24, 2005 01:20 PM | Link to this
Kimberly. So is sex. :)
By Tim
August 24, 2005 01:22 PM | Link to this
Heather… Bass Pro
Bruce… I was just kidding… I actually used to go fishing with my dad all the time when I was a kid
By Heather
August 24, 2005 01:25 PM | Link to this
Me and Raylene are going fishing!!
By Raylene
August 24, 2005 01:25 PM | Link to this
oh yeah hey. sex can make you lose weight. sexercise. =) so for all those “fat people that need to lose weight”, just sexercise regularly. lmao. hows that sound JBM? would that be a proper way for these people whose lives you are trying to control to lose weight?
By taboga
August 24, 2005 01:26 PM | Link to this
One of the most important lessons from world history it seems to be the importance of the separation of church & goverment.
There’s never been a “separation of church and state” except in Communist countries. And they fail miserably.
Public schools, funded in most part by the goverment=citizens=taxes, should be free of any religious contents.
By what authority?
We MUST respect everybodys different choices.
Again, by what authority MUST we be respectful?
If you are a religious person, go to church, send your children to a religious school (if you can afford it), but keep PUBLIC institutions FREE of any religious context.
Why can everything else be in “public institutions” - but not religion?
By Whiley
August 24, 2005 01:26 PM | Link to this
BWAAAA HAAA HAAA HEATHER ! Hope you enjoy your future of complete submission.
BTW, kissing a* does not guarantee a good marriage.
By Renee
August 24, 2005 01:29 PM | Link to this
Aaaah that chicken was good!!!! Whew….lmao
By Jack
August 24, 2005 01:31 PM | Link to this
Bass Pro Shop = Adult male candy store. (one of them anyway)
By Heather
August 24, 2005 01:31 PM | Link to this
I know. My ex usually was kissing mine. But I can understand how you would see respecting your husband as kissing a$$. That goes right along with most of your posts on this board.
By Just Being Me
August 24, 2005 01:31 PM | Link to this
ARCHIE - Glad someone can partake in this discussion objectively.
RAYLENE - As long as I’m a taxpayer, I have all the right in the world to tell significantly overweight people that they need to lose some weight.
This is a general statement, not a specific statement geared toward one overweight individual. It speaks to all significantly overweight.
Do you have any idea what the word “significant” or its adverb form “significantly” means? If you are underweight and you don’t need to gain weight to be healthy, then you are NOT SIGNIFICANTLY UNDERWEIGHT.
The opposite is also true. If you are overweight and you don’t need to lose weight in order to be healthy, you are NOT SIGNIFICANTLY OVERWEIGHT.
The operative word here is “SIGNIFICANTLY”. Now do you get it?
And, what do you mean I don’t need to tell them? What is it some secret?
By kimberly
August 24, 2005 01:32 PM | Link to this
Whiley’s right, Heather. I too was a good, sweet, submissive woman. I wanted to be true to my nature. You don’t even WANT to know what that’ll get you!
By Heather
August 24, 2005 01:34 PM | Link to this
Renee, I had the best lunch myself, smoked sausage with rice and peppers and onions with some sort of tomato sauce. Delicious and fattening.
By Jack
August 24, 2005 01:36 PM | Link to this
Now Whiley. If her husband treats her the same then they will be happy.
By Archie
August 24, 2005 01:37 PM | Link to this
Hey JBM you don’t burn that many calories having sex but it is fun to have sex. If that’s what it takes to get some folk to burn fat so be it. Sex probably can get your blood flowing real good too.
By Ben
August 24, 2005 01:42 PM | Link to this
Don’t listen to them Heather. Your plan sounds good to me! lol. It sure beats coming home to a dirty house, no dinner and cold sheets. lol!
By Just Being Me
August 24, 2005 01:42 PM | Link to this
RAYLENE - Why wouldn’t that be a “proper” way?
Personally, I don’t care how the significantly overweight lose their extra pounds, only that they do. As I stated earlier, the most reliable (and relatively safe) way is through good eating habits and exercise.
By taboga
August 24, 2005 01:43 PM | Link to this
You don’t even WANT to know what that’ll get you!
Actually we all do. So why don’t you tell us all about your wonderful sexual exploits that you are always implying.
We’re dying to know Dr. Kimberly.
By Ben
August 24, 2005 01:44 PM | Link to this
It’s not so much the act of sex, but more the exercise trying to get it that burns calories.
By Netbanker
August 24, 2005 01:44 PM | Link to this
Late to the game again this week…sorry, but my travel schedule this month is a bit much.
In response to the forum question…Sweet Jesus, NO! Not because I don’t want kids to learn about religions, but because we’re doing a horrendous job with the basics now in secondary schools. If elective classes are going to be added we’d do better to bring back art and music programs. At least these two subjects help re-inforce math (as in spacial relationships for art and counting time change in music) and encourage self-discipline through practice, practice, practice. I think bible classes would open up a Sam’s Club sized can of worms surrounding religion that has no place in our secondary schools. The study of the Bible should be kept to churches and colleges/universities.
Whiley….I’m surprised you questioned what type of women Heather is hanging out with as if that had anything to do with it. This IS the South where gossip runs second to football as the regional sport of choice. And goodness knows that the very best gossip can be heard during the coffee hour in the social hall between church services.
By Heather
August 24, 2005 01:44 PM | Link to this
Well ladies, it is all in what you are looking for before you get married. If you want Mr. Excitement, Mr. GoodLooking, Mr. GoodInBed that is what you are going to get. A man who is likely to cheat, likely to take advantage of you, and very likely to break your heart.
Now, if you look for a man who believes in God, FOLLOWS Jesus, and goes to church on a regular basis then you might find it easier to be “true to your nature”.
By Renee
August 24, 2005 01:45 PM | Link to this
And, what do you mean I don’t need to tell them? What is it some secret?
If anyone SIGNIFICANTLY overweight wants your opinion, they will ask you, then you are free to give it to them
You didn’t say significantly, you said fat, then overweight, and personally the word significantly doesn’t make a difference. If that person is satisfied with their weight (and their health) what difference does it make. Because YOU feel like someone is overweight then YOU feel like YOU should then notify them of this. I’m sure significantly overweight people know of this and either they don’t care, they are having problems losing it, or they may don’t know and would appreciate you bringing it to their attention
By Raylene
August 24, 2005 01:46 PM | Link to this
just because you pay taxes that doesnt make you a doctor, who is the only person who should tell anyone that they need to lose weight. and dont tell me that i am rude and then go implying that i am stupid. yes i do know what “significantlyâ€? means. obviously its not a secret, but why do you feel the need to tell everyone who is overweight to lose some pounds? its not your job. does it really effect you if someone at the store is fat? do you not care who you offend or hurt. i know the truth hurts. but you shouldnt be the one to hurt them, but you couldnt possibly understand that could you? why should you care about other people’s feelings? apparently you are as cold hearted as them come.
By Ben
August 24, 2005 01:47 PM | Link to this
Yeah like Jesse Jackson.
By Archie
August 24, 2005 01:49 PM | Link to this
I had fried chicken yesterday with canned carrots. It was good. I also walked a mile. JBM if you can help me get a six-pack I am all for it. I had liver & onions with green beans today. I need the name of another soul food restaurant down there other than Gladys Knight’s place and Thelma’s kitchen.
By Ben
August 24, 2005 01:51 PM | Link to this
That was meant for Heather (the Jesse Jackson comment)!
By Raylene
August 24, 2005 01:53 PM | Link to this
renee- still on my side? at least we have some sense…and sensitivity towards others.
By kimberly
August 24, 2005 01:57 PM | Link to this
Tooberface, actually my first husband was a lot like you. Like a good, dutiful wife, I bleached the skid marks out of his drawers every Saturday. He showed his love and appreciation by calling me names…. like you do. ‘Nuff said.
By Bruce
August 24, 2005 02:01 PM | Link to this
LOL Ben, I see you have been married for sometime too…..
By Heather
August 24, 2005 02:01 PM | Link to this
I’m laughing Ben. Jesse’s not so bad. I have met a few guys that fit the bill but most of them are already married. I might be single for a very long time.
By Netbanker
August 24, 2005 02:04 PM | Link to this
Heather…your lunch sounds like jumbalaya.
By Renee
August 24, 2005 02:04 PM | Link to this
I’m still with ya Raylene.
By Heather
August 24, 2005 02:07 PM | Link to this
Kimberly, I’m sorry your man did that to you. I was in a verbally abusive relationship myself once. I didn’t think I would ever be able to trust again.
By Just Being Me
August 24, 2005 02:09 PM | Link to this
I’ve read that sex can burn up to 120 lbs. Now, whether or not that’s true, I don’t know. But, either way, it is a fun way to exercise and burn calories.
And, I agree with you, Archie. If that’s what it takes…
By taboga
August 24, 2005 02:09 PM | Link to this
This is why I love rich people.
They don’t give a damn what you weigh, eat, smoke, drink, what church you go to; whether you don’t or whether or not you have a child safety seat in your car!
They don’t care what I do while they are out making the country move, creating jobs and paying the vast majority of the freight so that a bunch of do-gooders and busy-bodies who have never done a damn thing for themselves; much less anyone else, can go out and whine, moan and demand that everyone live their lives according to whatever happens to be the popular fad of the month!
By Heather
August 24, 2005 02:09 PM | Link to this
Netbanker, yeah without all the spices. I am thinking of going back to the cafeteria for another plate. :)
By Tim
August 24, 2005 02:11 PM | Link to this
I don’t know in what area you are looking Archie but ‘OK Cafe’ is one of the best Southern food restaurants… it is on E Paces Ferry just off of 75… their Fried Cheese Grits with jalapeno cheese dipping sauce… oh lordy… AWESOME!
By Raylene
August 24, 2005 02:14 PM | Link to this
where’s jack? did he get marooned on an island again? oh no…
By Bruce
August 24, 2005 02:19 PM | Link to this
Heather,
You are certainly looking in the right place. God never intended for us to be alone. Just be patient He will provide.
By Heather
August 24, 2005 02:24 PM | Link to this
Thanks Bruce. I know you are right. I am actually enjoying my single state right now. It has given me time to empty the trash in my head and do some cleaning.
By Just Being Me
August 24, 2005 02:29 PM | Link to this
RENEE - Scroll up, dear. I used the word “fat” referencing another poster’s comments. When I realized (on my own) that I shouldn’t have used that word, I changed it to “overweight.” I have used the term “significantly overweight” at least five times throughout this blog.
Anyway, your comment the word significantly doesn’t make a difference gives me reason #3,456 why I can’t continue this conversation with you. WE ARE SIMPLY NOT ON THE SAME PAGE, dear.
RAYLENE - I think an important point to bring out here is that I am not in people’s faces at random telling them that they are fat and need to lose weight. I am posting some opinion, some fact on a public forum. Anyone who doesn’t like what I’m saying doesn’t have to read it. Example: Until recently, I have had horrible skin for most of my adult and teen life. I’m talking HORRIBLE acne. I have had people - strangers, even - come up to me and tell me what I need to do to have clearer skin. Some of their advice was heartfelt, well-intentioned, albeit ignorant. Some were intentionally hurtful. Either way, I didn’t ask them for their advice, they volunteered it.
I would never walk up to a significantly overweight person (or an acne sufferer) and tell them what they need to do to lose weight (or clear their skin).
However, on a public forum, I couldn’t get angry if someone posted 1,429 ways to clear your skin. They have a right to say whatever they want, and if it offends me (which it wouldn’t anyway), I can just ignore them.
Anyway, we really don’t see eye to eye on this, so there’s no point in going on and on about it. Please know that it’s never my intention to offend or hurt anyone’s feelings. For real. I can’t manage people’s issues with their weight, but I am at liberty to disclose my opinion - and relevant facts. And, that’s all I’ve done.
For the last time: any person who is significantly overweight needs to lose weight. Don’t believe me? Ask your doctor. Be sure to use my exact words, though.
By vince
August 24, 2005 02:32 PM | Link to this
“Thou shall not kill” as told to us in The Ten Commandments. Nowhere in The Ten Commandments is any mention of homosexuality. So, while the collective hair of this country falls out over gay rights and marriage, not a single follicle detached from our collective scalp over Pat Robertson’s encouragement of murdering Huga Chavez. What is this country coming to? Promoting breaking of The Ten Commandments is ok? Murder is ok? And two people minding their own business living together in love is a BIG problem?
By Raylene
August 24, 2005 02:42 PM | Link to this
if i remember correctly, i stopped this conversation already. that last comment with your name was a sarcastic one.
By Brian Curtis
August 24, 2005 02:44 PM | Link to this
quote from Adriane:
“Common sense should tell us, let’s go back and seek the old path. The path that worked.�
Did it really work so well? Because I could’ve sworn that slavery, racial prejudice, miscegenation laws, persecution of Jews and Catholics, gay-bashing, and oppression of women were all justified by reference to that same “faith.� It wasn’t all peace and love, you know.
“Let’s face it. Prayer Works! It works Today, worked yesterday and it will forever more. It is the only thing that brings about a change for the good of all mankind.�
Hmm, I could’ve sworn that science, logic, and the Englightenment had a few benefits too. Not to mention public sanitation, advances in medicine, expanding literacy, freedom and democracy….
*“See, we want to act like this country was founded on religion but we don’t want it to be taught. “8
Speak for yourself! I don’t want to act like this country was founded on religion at all, and for a very good reason: it wasn’t.
“For those who say I don’t know what I’m talking about, Look at your money, talk to your President, talk to the people around you they believe and have faith in something or Someone.�
Yep. Including “each other� and “freedom,� which are not religious concepts anyway. (Personally, I don’t have much faith in my money; they changed it in the 1950s to add the “God We Trust� motto anyway, and I don’t have a lot of regard for Red Scare jingoism. And I’m sure not gonna take advice from THIS president.)
“If what the schools teach is not acceptable to you, then YOU TEACH YOUR KIDS WHAT YOU THINK IS THE TRUTH. “
That’s the first thing you’ve said that I agree with!
“Wait until something happens to your kid in school and see who needs someone to pray for them. Or what if it’s your kid that doesn’t know anything about any type of religion, commandments of the bible or anything, and kills someone—what would be your thoughts then?â€?
My thoughts would be, “Gee, I guess I did a lousy job of parenting.� Of course, I could say the same for kids brought up in strictly religious homes who also grow up to go on killing sprees. Religion doesn’t seem to have much influence on that�-or didn’t you notice that nearly all of our violent criminals and mass-murderers are religious?
By Ben
August 24, 2005 02:50 PM | Link to this
Heather - Jesse ain’t too bad if you want a husband that cheats and I think has illegitimate children. lol. But hey, he looks fairly decent and claims to be a man of God, so oh well. But I guess that trashes my theory of the black cloud, huh?
By Bruce
August 24, 2005 02:51 PM | Link to this
Vince,
That issue was discussed yesterday. Please go through the entire posts before pitching you little fits.
By Jack
August 24, 2005 02:55 PM | Link to this
Archie. It’s cheaper to buy by the case. LOL
By Jack
August 24, 2005 03:00 PM | Link to this
Raylene. I’ve been busy at work here in the salt mine. This debate sure beats the topic provided by our friends at the AJC.
By vince
August 24, 2005 03:01 PM | Link to this
Hi Bruce, Who died and left you in charge? And since when can you define what is a little or a big fit?
I may rewrite my posting 84 more times today. Get off your high horse.
By Heather
August 24, 2005 03:06 PM | Link to this
I was playing around with you Ben. Jesse is too old for me anyway and while I love my dark brothers, I picture a white guy in this scenario between the ages of 35 and 45.
Now if Pat Robertson was younger….(j/k)
Don’t take me too seriously this week guys. I walked away from a car accident last week that should have killed me. It has given me a very different perspective.
By Archie
August 24, 2005 03:10 PM | Link to this
Thanks Tim. I was the one who used the term fat and I was the one who used the term plain and simple. I used fat because of the article from the past couple of days talking about the fattening of America. JBM you can say whatever you want,heck, all of the racists certainly voice their opinions on this forum. Reading and comprehension of posts is an issue on this forum. There are some excellent non-fad diet programs available and you can still eat good Southern food and lose weight and I can witness to that fact. I don’t smoke but I do think smokers have been picked on a bit, I mean if I go into a bar I expect smoke.
By Ben
August 24, 2005 03:12 PM | Link to this
I know you were, Heather. So was I. Besides, everybody knows that light-skinned brothers are in now anyway!
By Lee
August 24, 2005 03:16 PM | Link to this
… and there I was thinking BPS meant “beats per second”
By Raylene
August 24, 2005 03:17 PM | Link to this
did you bring any rum with you jack? lol ok i will stop now.
By Dave From Woodstock
August 24, 2005 03:20 PM | Link to this
As usual, Diane is right on!
And she’s a lot better looking!
WOO HOO!
By Questions
August 24, 2005 03:24 PM | Link to this
yes, there is nothing like knowing you lived to live another day. Or were 2 seconds from death.
makes you look at things very differently.
vince - 83 to go, then? LOL
what a day, fat people, smokers, drinkers, man, woman, a little topic as well.
By Bruce
August 24, 2005 03:25 PM | Link to this
Vince,
How old are you? Shouldn’t you be…wait, school has let out for the day. Get back to your homework before your Mom and Dad get home.
By Archie
August 24, 2005 03:26 PM | Link to this
Ben I don’t know about that light-skinned thing(laughing)!!
I wish Eaton would post again but I am glad to hear from Netbanker. We seem to branch into better topics than the columnists every week. If Shanti has used the word mandate or required then I would arguing against her all week but I just can’t get too excited about a topic that’s elective.
By Heather
August 24, 2005 03:30 PM | Link to this
I had a thing for Middle Eastern guys for a while. My ex-husband was part Native American, he had almost no body hair and very dark skin. I had a thing going with this one black guy for about 4 months. Then for a very long time I found Asian men attractive. Now, when I was into women, there was one black woman, one asian woman, and several white women.
Looking at that, I am amazed at the change that has come over me. Now I just want a nice Christian man who believes in God and follows Jesus. Wow.
By Lee
August 24, 2005 03:31 PM | Link to this
… just checked my internet connection, going great at 128M bps… bits per second…
“beats per second”… just checking the pulse of the blog here…
And if you’re going to teach the Bible, it shouldn’t be exclusively the Bible, it should be Religious Education in the respect of history, culture, and knowledge of the main aspects of each of the world’s major religions, and the differences in the sects of each religion, as well as the way they traverse(d) the globe through history.
By Netbanker
August 24, 2005 03:35 PM | Link to this
Heather…any chance they can add the spices? I LOVE a good jumbalaya or maybe a spicy gumbo.
Tim…what about The Collonade? It may not be soul food, but you can’t get more old school Southern food except at your grandma’s Sunday dinner.
All y’all are making me hungry! I’m going to have to forage for ‘office’ food. With any luck there are classes in our training room this week so I can sneak some cookies or something.
BTW, where is Eaton?
Ben…next thing you know someone’s gonna be talking about ‘high yellow’ brothers.
By Archie
August 24, 2005 03:35 PM | Link to this
If a bible class were offered it would probably be cancelled after awhile because of lack of participation. I say that because there was a bible study going on at work but the folk got mad with the teacher and it’s gone away. I would not mind an elective course on Islam which might provide an understanding of certain things.
By Jack
August 24, 2005 03:36 PM | Link to this
Heather. Glad you’re ok from the wreck. You might want to talk to TT. She might be able to “turn that wreck into a check” LOL
By Tim
August 24, 2005 03:39 PM | Link to this
so Robertson is now saying that he never said that anyone should assassinate Venezuela’s president… here are his words today “I didn’t say ‘assassination.’ I said our special forces should ‘take him out.’ And ‘take him out’ can be a number of things, including kidnapping; there are a number of ways to take out a dictator from power besides killing him. I was misinterpreted by the AP [Associated Press], but that happens all the time,” (said on the 700 Club) but on Monday he said “If he thinks we’re trying to assassinate him, I think we really ought to go ahead and do it,”
isn’t ‘thou shalt not bear false witness (lie)’ in those pesky ten commandments somewhere?
By Heather
August 24, 2005 03:48 PM | Link to this
Yeah, I’m glad to be alive. Its funny, I was spinning around doing reverse donuts on 285 in the middle of the highway, completely out of control, these cars were coming at me right and left and every single one of them missed me.
A pickup had a blowout in front of an 18 wheeler that began to slide into my lane I then avoided hitting the 18 wheeler by like 1 second but it caused me to lose control of my car.
By Archie
August 24, 2005 03:49 PM | Link to this
Thanks Tim, that man Pat Roberson should not be leading anyone in christianity. I saw him with my own eyes and there was no misinterpretation. Don’t use Roberson as an example of what’s wrong with christianity and we,christians won’t use lying atheists as an example. Pat Roberson has had problems for a long time.
By Netbanker
August 24, 2005 03:49 PM | Link to this
Well I think I’ve discovered one advantage to being a gay man today. We’re unaffected by coochie and the withholding thereof!
By Raylene
August 24, 2005 03:50 PM | Link to this
Tim- i read that on ccn.com. i cant believe that man. he did say we should assassinate him. then he said we have the “power to take him out”. and really is kidnapping the guy anymore legal?
By Tim
August 24, 2005 03:56 PM | Link to this
Netbanker… I have never been a fan of The Collonade… I don’t think they understand the true essence of southern/soul food like OK Cafe does lol… I think it may have to do with the fact that OK Cafe has a lot of black cooks… and as anyone who knows southern food knows, a southern sista knows how to season some vegetables lol
By Just Being Me
August 24, 2005 03:59 PM | Link to this
*Reading and comprehension of posts is an issue on this forum. *
ARCHIE - You’re absolutely right. And, it’s hard to have an intelligent conversation with someone who doesn’t comprehend well, or with someone who internalizes things.
JBM
By Tim
August 24, 2005 04:00 PM | Link to this
Archie… don’t worry I don’t use him as an example of all Christians… I use him as an example of the type of person to stay far away from
Raylene… maybe we should give him the benefit of the doubt… he was probably just trying to boost ratings lol
By Renee
August 24, 2005 04:03 PM | Link to this
I sure miss that Southern cooking. If I want any good food anymore I have to make it myself, and I just don’t have the time. They don’t even have sweet tea here. I’ve been going through withdrawals. lol
By Jack
August 24, 2005 04:03 PM | Link to this
Heather. Better not to tell your future hubby your previous exploits. Ignorance is bliss. :)
By Whiley
August 24, 2005 04:06 PM | Link to this
All the women I know have real careers & pay their own ways. Can’t think of any that don’t. Since I don’t attend church, I don’t associate too much with those chatty gossipy women you say exist.
And facts are facts, FAT IS FAT. Why sugar coat it? Obese people’s bodies are not attractive, they breath loudly, can’t get around easily, & end up dying early. It takes a lot of junk food to be 100 lbs overweight. I don’t know about everyone else, but I can’t say I even know anybody morbidly obese.
By Heather
August 24, 2005 04:08 PM | Link to this
NetBanker, I think we women could get some of you gay guys to side with us during the strike. Just to make this thing completely fair.
By Raylene
August 24, 2005 04:15 PM | Link to this
where are you renee?
By Heather
August 24, 2005 04:16 PM | Link to this
Actually Jack, I see that as sort of a test. Jesus forgave people of their sins. To the adulteress He said to go and sin no more. My future husband will be fully aware of the path I have walked. If he can’t take it then he is not the man for me. I expect he will not be perfect either.
By Renee
August 24, 2005 04:20 PM | Link to this
I’m in Vermont. Moved from Atlanta in June, lived in Atlanta almost my entire life.
Whiley, fat is fat. However, the other comments aren’t fair to make, because people have legitimate medical conditions that make them overweight. In addition, there a lot of things that make people unattractive, but they are still people and deserve to be treated as such.
By Raylene
August 24, 2005 04:25 PM | Link to this
oh. how is it there? very good point renee.
By Questions
August 24, 2005 04:32 PM | Link to this
You would think from the news that this fat thing was a southern thing, but if you go to northern Maine or northern Minnesota, you see the same thing. Cannot do much there 6 months out of the year, except eat and (well, you guys can figure it out)
By Netbanker
August 24, 2005 04:32 PM | Link to this
Well there you go, Tim and Vince. There is no mention of ‘Thou shall not ‘take anyone out’ or even Thou shall not pray for someone to kill someone else so Pat’s just fine on the sin count. Not a commandment broken, Praise Jesus! (BIG sarcasm on that last comment.)
By Raylene
August 24, 2005 04:34 PM | Link to this
a lot of people in minnesota are german…. germans can be big people….
By Raylene
August 24, 2005 04:36 PM | Link to this
let me rephrase that… germans tend to be big people
By Heather
August 24, 2005 04:40 PM | Link to this
Pat Robertson has certainly not helped further Christianity this week.
By Whiley
August 24, 2005 04:43 PM | Link to this
“people have legitimate medical conditions that make them overweight. In addition, there a lot of things that make people unattractive, but they are still people and deserve to be treated as such.”
Of course we should treat everyone respectfully, however, there are VERY few cases where it is a hormonal reason someone is obese. Inability to stop eating complete junk food is different. If you put dirty gas into your car, how long will it take before it breaks down? And there is NO excuse for an obese child.
By Jack
August 24, 2005 04:51 PM | Link to this
NetB. The Cheese Cak Factory has good jumbalaya.
Renee. Send us down some of that fine maple syrup. Never been to Vermont but it looks good in the travel magazines. Hope you like snow.
By taboga
August 24, 2005 04:52 PM | Link to this
And of course, all Pat Robertson was saying, is if we can eliminate one man now - it might save a lot of lives later. But no, let’s all get on our high horses and pretend righteousness and disgust over a comment that Robertson made.
And should the Marxist Chavez aid or assist terrorists in our demise, we can always light some candles, tie some ribbons around trees and hold signs at football games: Mourning the loss of thousands of lives…
By Raylene
August 24, 2005 04:53 PM | Link to this
Whiley- have you ever heard of a thing called thyroid disease? that causes obesity. i have a friend that got diabetes as a child and it caused her to gain weight(she was skinny before), and an obese child, is the usually the fault of the parents overfeeding the child. ever watch maury? i am sure that there are plenty more medical reasons for obesity, even in children.
By Heather
August 24, 2005 04:57 PM | Link to this
Whiley, are you a medical doctor? How can you possibly say there is no excuse for an obese child? Do you know any children who are obese? I think you said earlier that you didn’t even know any obese people. So from this fountain of knowledge you come on this blog and proclaim your opinions.
You talk big about peoples rights. If people want to eat themselves into an early grave, who are you to judge? If you don’t want to hear about how things you are doing might be unhealthy, then don’t talk about the unhealthy aspects of other peoples lives.
By Jack
August 24, 2005 04:59 PM | Link to this
One should not make fun of anyone about their looks/weight. If you do, the man upstairs may just slow down your metabolism or put you in an accident that changes your looks. Remember, what goes around comes around.
By Whiley
August 24, 2005 05:17 PM | Link to this
Teasing is wrong & should be punished by picking up trash on 285 in the middle of rush hour.
I never said they’re aren’t children with hormonal problems that cause them to be obese. We ARE talking about obese, not just a little chunky. How many soda’s per day are consumed?, fried foods, fast food, sugar cereals? How long is spent in front of the TV or video games? Genetic obesity that cannot be affected by exercising & good eating is rare. I’m tired of all the excuses that’s all. Fat is fat. If you poured sugar into your gas tank, what happens? If you pour sugar into a child or adult, what happens?
One doesn’t have to be a medical Dr. to know why so many people are overweight.
And now it DOES matter who chooses to eat themselves into an early grave. If you tell it like it is, your job could be in jeopardy for telling the truth.
What’s next, can’t tell an alcoholic to stop drinking?
By Ben
August 25, 2005 07:27 AM | Link to this
Whiley if you pour sugar in your gas tank, you become gay, right? At least that’s what I heard anyway.
By Bruce
August 25, 2005 07:55 AM | Link to this
Whiley,
Maybe you should take your own advise and STAY OUT OF PEOPLES PRIVATE LIVES!!!!!!
By Raylene
August 25, 2005 08:07 AM | Link to this
Whiley- dont you get that we are not talking about hormonal problems that cause obesity. where did that even come from. as i said yesterday, most obese children are that way as a fault of the parent. who lets them over-eat, or over-feeds them. sitting and watching tv has nothing to do with it. i know people that sit on their a$$’s all day and arent fat. and telling an alcoholic to stop drinking is different. if in fact that alcoholic is a danger to the person telling them to stop drinking. if the way the alcoholic acts when they drink too much affects people. but once again, how does anyone being obese affect you? it doesnt
By taboga
August 25, 2005 08:10 AM | Link to this
What’s next, can’t tell an alcoholic to stop drinking?
Nope. This is where you Leftist back yourselves into a corner. You all sermonize about Rights, people not being “judgemental” and how people need to “mind their own business” — as long it pertains to something that you are in favor of.
But when it comes to things that you disagree with, all of a sudden “Rights” and “minding your own business”, etc. - is not that important anymore.
If it’s ok for two men to pile in the bed together and play “hide the sausage”, then it certainly should be ok for someone to drink themself to death - it that’s what they choose to do.
By Heather
August 25, 2005 08:12 AM | Link to this
Whiley, what amazes me is that liberals go on and on proclaiming judge not judge not until its something that is not related to sex, drugs, alcohol, or abortion.
See a fat person, go ahead and tell them to lose weight. See a pregnant woman smoking, its her right.
Do you see the hypocrisy here?
By taboga
August 25, 2005 08:19 AM | Link to this
Heather,
“Hypocrisy” is at the heart of Liberalism.
By Heather
August 25, 2005 08:27 AM | Link to this
Taboga, I am starting to see that myself. Liberals have no problem seeing the hypocrisy of some Christians but they are blind to their own.
By Brian Curtis
August 25, 2005 08:32 AM | Link to this
Actually, Heather, I don’t tell fat people to lose weight. It’s none of my business what they do with their private lives—something a lot of so-called “conservatives” seem to have lost sight of in their rush to destroy freedom.
By Brian Curtis
August 25, 2005 08:35 AM | Link to this
P.S. What makes you assume that “liberal” is the opposite of “Christian”? Plenty of Christians are liberals—the real Christians, as I call them to distinguish them from the hypocritical Religious Reich.
By Archie
August 25, 2005 08:41 AM | Link to this
I have to side with Whiley on the fat issue. She is not dipping into anybody’s private life she is posting on a public forum. There is no requirement that anyone reads or likes what she writes. You can elect to read or not read Whiley’s posts. I did say something to a pregnant woman drinking but it didn’t work.
Jack where is the Cheesecake Factory? Can I get an address?
By Renee
August 25, 2005 08:41 AM | Link to this
I’m eating my muffin, reading the blog, and I can’t believe we are STILL on this weight issue.
Yes, Whiley, an alcoholic can drink until liquor and beer pours out of his nose and ears. I don’t care until he gets behind a wheel and puts my life in jeopardy. If an obese person wants to eat until they bust, I DON’T care. Nobody should care. And where do you get your statistical information that “there are very few cases where it is a hormonal problem that makes people obese”.
And then, the statement that there is NO excuse for an OBESE child. Actually there is no excuse for a disrespectful child or a disobedient child. There are plenty of excuses for an obese child, including that the child just eats too much, which in turn might make him gain weight. It’s a problem, like any other problem, you work with the child and maybe they will work through it and maybe it will be a problem they deal with all of their lives.
Bodies are compiled differently as are mentalities so to think everyone running around should be this size 6 is ridiculous. Some people gain weight if they look at something sweet, others can gorge themselves continuously and never gain a pound.
Jack — I’m preparing for the winter now. It will be an experience to say the least. It’s beautiful here though. Mountains on all sides of me, fresh air and beautiful scenery. Its a change after being in the city all my life. And maple syrup is such a big deal here. It’s good though.
By Ben
August 25, 2005 08:58 AM | Link to this
Liberals, Conservatives — whatever! Both are nothing but blind followers. Any person who chooses sides is destined to lose and the term narrow-minded takes on a new meaning.
By Ken
August 25, 2005 09:05 AM | Link to this
Brian… I am definitely Christian and I am definitely not liberal (politically). In fact I am libertarian. Keep the government out of my life. Period. I want many of the things that libs want, I just don’t want the government to do them.
Raylene… Obesity most definitely affects me due to $$$. It overtaxes our health care system. It makes healthcare more difficult for me to recieve. It makes healthcare more difficult for me to pay for. Pretty simple, don’t you think…?
By Ben
August 25, 2005 09:12 AM | Link to this
How much extra do you pay for healthcare because of obesity?
By Brian Curtis
August 25, 2005 09:14 AM | Link to this
Ken: Good point. We need to remember that Christians come in all types: liberal, conservative, libertarian, or otherwise.
It’s only the far-right Christians who are the enemies of freedom—not ALL Christians.
By Jennifer
August 25, 2005 09:21 AM | Link to this
For real…how much extra do you pay for health care due to obesity? I figured the high cost of AIDS for the poor would cause that….or maybe Diabetes….or Cancer…. I had no idea that the obese cost me money too!
By Renee
August 25, 2005 09:28 AM | Link to this
I can think of several things other than obesity that cause the soaring price of healthcare. Take away the obesity and I’m sure we won’t be celebrating our lower healthcare costs.
By Heather
August 25, 2005 09:33 AM | Link to this
Actually, I wasn’t saying that Liberals where the opposite of Christians. I was talking specifically about Liberals who bash Christians for saying it like it is, then go around saying it like it is themselves.
If Liberals want to state their opinions about anything, they need to be willing to allow others to state theirs.
By naimah Muhammad
August 25, 2005 09:37 AM | Link to this
In theory a comparative religion class that compares a variety of religions is ok. Because it is just like math and english, set up and implemented for the student to gain unbaised knowledge about the subject. But as one can see from the debates between Angie and Boscoe it hard as humans to seperate our personal beliefs when discussing religions. This forum was discussing if the Bible should be used as a source of reference in schools, and here they are discusing Mary and if this or that phrase is true. Most schools dont have aadequate supplies, enough books, or enough teachers. Spend your time and your money on that. This sounds like a ploy to get everyone back to “The good ol’ Christian days” Face it America is a melting pot of individuals from everywhere, everyone believes in what they beleive in andd that faith cannot be shaken, why is it so important to know why the Crusades happened? History teaches what happened and when, if your not Christian or a Theologists it really doesnt matter why it happens as long as you know when it happens so you as a student can get that answer correct on your test. Teach our kids, and let them do thinking. (They seem a lot better at it than the Adults!)
By Archie
August 25, 2005 09:43 AM | Link to this
Hey Ben I consider myself liberal but I am not a blind follower. I often criticize Diane for some of her points of view. I am not liberal for the sake of being liberal and I do believe conservatives make some good points. I do believe abstinence should be stressed for some people and being married is a good thing which is why gays want to do it.There are some economic benefits to being married,etc. On the other I do believe we need universal healthcare,I am against the Iraq war, I do believe we need to legalize drugs in some way so yeah I am a bit to the left. I also would like a woman president.
By Just Being Me
August 25, 2005 09:53 AM | Link to this
an alcoholic can drink until liquor and beer pours out of his nose and ears. I don’t care until he gets behind a wheel and puts my life in jeopardy. If an obese person wants to eat until they bust, I DON’T care. Nobody should care.
Nobody should care… until s/he has to suffer skyrocketing insurance costs to cover the many ailments of that obese person.
By G
August 25, 2005 10:04 AM | Link to this
Mike Mcdonald, you must be a Christian. Who said the Bible is the most influential book, to Whom? there are soooooooo many people in the world besides Christians alone there are over 1 billion Muslims, and millions of Buddhists, to whom is the Bible the most important book or Jesus the most important man ever? The Bible may be the most controversial book, why subject our kids with undue controversy, wanna be a Christian…..go to church. Wanna be a Muslim…go to a Mosque. Have questions….ak your parents!
By Archie
August 25, 2005 10:05 AM | Link to this
Ben I am a liberal but not a blind follower and I have disagreed with Diane many times. I do think abstinence should be pushed for some people. There was a lady that posted here that said she sometimes wish she didn’t have her son. Some people need a conservative approach because of where they are in life at times but on the other hand I do advocate universal healthcare, I am against the death penalty, and I am for gay marriage. Yes I am a leftist but I am not a drone.
By taboga
August 25, 2005 10:11 AM | Link to this
Teach our kids, and let them do thinking. (They seem a lot better at it than the Adults!)
Amen! And if we would stop with a whole lot of the “teaching” - kids would use their inherent brilliant minds to reason things out in a far more logical and expedient manner.
It is the “teaching” and “learned behavior” that has most adults now behaving like trained seals!
By Jack
August 25, 2005 10:12 AM | Link to this
Archie. There is one on Peachtree Rd in Buckhead across from Pharr Rd. and there is one near Perimeter Mall.
By z-man
August 25, 2005 10:16 AM | Link to this
The rumor mill has it that all military leave has been cancelled for September and October. Can anybody verify this with someone in the military? Something like that happening would be pretty big news for the media so I have my doubts about it. I just wondered if some could confirm of deny it.
By Just Being Me
August 25, 2005 10:18 AM | Link to this
A significant difference between the affects of obesity on our healthcare costs, and the affects of cancer and other such diseases is CHOICE.
Many people (no, I didn’t say all) CHOOSE to be obese by not eating right and not exercising.
Some people can get away with eating whatever they want (just like I tell my daughter that some students don’t ever have to study a day in their lives to get straight A’s), but some have to eat right and exercise in order to maintain a healthy weight.
Most people don’t choose cancer.
Another significant difference is numbers. Take my company for example. We have 8000+ employees. I would venture to say (having a close source) that currently, less than 1% of our employees have disclosed that they have cancer. About 4% are diabetic. 2 people have disclosed that they are HIV positive. 1 out of every 5 people in my company are obese. This is not unlike my former organization in NY where all but 2 people in my office were significantly overweight.
By G
August 25, 2005 10:26 AM | Link to this
Mike Mcdonald, you must be a Christian. Who said the Bible is the most influential book, to Whom? there are soooooooo many people in the world besides Christians alone there are over 1 billion Muslims, and millions of Buddhists, to whom is the Bible the most important book or Jesus the most important man ever? The Bible may be the most controversial book, why subject our kids with undue controversy, wanna be a Christian…..go to church. Wanna be a Muslim…go to a Mosque. Have questions….ak your parents!Suzan, you are so in love with the Bible, why don’t you respect it and capitalize the B!!! You wouldn’t wite …My fellow americans :)
By z-man
August 25, 2005 10:36 AM | Link to this
The rumor mill has it that all military personnel leave has been cancelled for the months of September and October. Does anybody know anyone in the military that could verify this. I have my doubts about it. If this were true I would think the media would pick it up.
By Ben
August 25, 2005 10:40 AM | Link to this
Z-Man - Military leave can only be denied if it conflicts with “operational commitments or training.” Chances are, most of the servicemembers that are forward deployed are not getting leave, but everyone else stateside is allowed leave. Leave is earned not awarded. It’s like your employer tellling you that you can’t take earned vacation days. So if by the off chance that rumor is correct, something serious is about to go down, but it’s highly unlikely.
By Archie
August 25, 2005 10:57 AM | Link to this
Thanks Jack for the information.
By Renee
August 25, 2005 10:58 AM | Link to this
justbeingme sounds like your numbers are fudged but ok, I’ll accept them. I can’t do the weight debate anymore.
But, obese people will and have been around until the end of time. I can almost guarantee that if you had a workplace of 8000+ of skinny mini’s that you would not then have cheaper healthcare. But if you think differently so be it.
This much I do know. If I eat a pie, you see a pie. Am I going to eat the pie? Hell yeah! For every report that shows you something healthy, there is a report showing that it’s not. We will all die eventually, I hope to die happy and not hungry lol.
People have medical problems and if you are healthy, justbeingme, I bet you if you ask the doctor he will find SOMETHING wrong with you. Otherwise he won’t get paid.
By Bruce
August 25, 2005 11:04 AM | Link to this
naimah Muhammad asked:
“why is it so important to know why the Crusades happened”
If that is the case then why do we need to teach evolution? Why does it matter how we got here?
If you are going to teach ANYTHING you should teach EVERYTHING there is on the subject. How can you say you have an informed understanding of anything if you do not have ALL the facts? Can you get by without all the facts, yes, but can you make an informed decision without them?
By Ken
August 25, 2005 11:14 AM | Link to this
Brian… EXTREMISTS of all shapes, sizes and ideologies are the enemies of freedom.
The way I see it is this…
If God can grant humanity free will, why can’t our society do the same? Sure, we need basic property laws to govern that society, but by and large, many of the laws we currently have are nothing more than ways to legislate morality.
By FELLOWamerican
August 25, 2005 11:27 AM | Link to this
my fellow americans, gatha ‘round, ize gutz a tail to tell.
By Jack
August 25, 2005 12:36 PM | Link to this
I guess everyone through up their hands and left the blog.
By Raylene
August 25, 2005 12:44 PM | Link to this
there is a cheese cake factory by northpoint mall also.
By Raylene
August 25, 2005 12:49 PM | Link to this
z-man- they are sending 1500 more troops out in september. they may cancel some branch’s leave for sept-oct. it has happened before. my husband was supposed to be able to come home and then they wouldnt let anyone off the base once.
By Raylene
August 25, 2005 12:55 PM | Link to this
who is still talking about obesity? i thought that was over…
By Amazed (Independent Woman)
August 25, 2005 01:01 PM | Link to this
The real problem with the cost of healthcare is “GREED”. It has nothing to do with obese people. Every body wants to make money off sick people. If everybody was healthy the healthcare industry would go broke.
Why do we “NOW” in the past 50 years have so many health problems? Why can’t I buy an apple without so much wax(I’m not sure what I’m eating)? I’m sure those Granny Smith are killing me somehow.
By Bruce
August 25, 2005 01:31 PM | Link to this
test
By Netbanker
August 25, 2005 01:40 PM | Link to this
Thanks for the recommendation Jack, but I doubt I’ll ever manage to get to the jumbalaya. I can’t ever seem to make it past the counter where they sell cake by the slice. The Godiva Chocolate Cheesecake gets me every time! And it’s Da BOMB!
Off topic, but interested if anyone else sees a paradox that occurred to me the other day as a friend was telling me about one child getting the student of the week award only to have his other child say it’s no big deal since every kid gets a turn throughout the school year. Why does it seem that we’ve eliminated competition in acedemics and sports because we don’t want to hurt any kids feelings (all that self esteem crap and them becoming mass murderers), but at the same time as a society (and especially youth culture) we worship at the alter of the Sports Star where competition and winning are the heart of it? Is it just me that thinks we’re setting our kids up for failure in the real world where competition occurs everyday?
By George and Jesus
August 25, 2005 01:40 PM | Link to this
Okay, I see some of you are not connecting the dots. MEDICAID, MEDICARE, PEACHCARE and all other GOVERNMENT funded programs are paid for by the American taxpayers. Uninsured individuals who are treated for free at hospitals, this cost is also passed onto the healthcare industry, mostly your insurance rates go up to cover for the uninsured. So if have the nation is having bypass surgery or needs diabetes shots, or needs subsidized wheel chairs or disability checks etc. guess who INDIRECTLY pays for it. So yes, my money pays for others unhealthy habits.
Just being me - it pains me to say this, but I do agree with you.
PS the dad thing was a joke.
By Ben
August 25, 2005 01:42 PM | Link to this
A rare moment of silence!
By chuck
August 25, 2005 02:06 PM | Link to this
fun·da·men·tal·ism ( P ) Pronunciation Key (fnd-mntl-zm) n. A usually religious movement or point of view characterized by a return to fundamental principles, by rigid adherence to those principles, and often by intolerance of other views and opposition to secularism.
fun·da·men·tal ( P ) Pronunciation Key (fnd-mntl) adj.
1 Of or relating to the foundation or base; 2 Forming or serving as an essential component of a system or structure; central: an example that was fundamental to the argument.
Looks to me like fundamentalism is a healthy thing. It simply means that Christianity has a core set of beliefs that are ESSENTIAL to the faith and that those core beliefs are followed diligently.Think about the field of Medicine which has core teachings that every doctor follows. Why do they follow these core teachings? Because they know them to be true. In short, THEY WORK. Now if a new technique comes along that works better, they change their practice. The problem with that, when it comes to Christianity, is that GOD WROTE THE BOOK THAT WE FOLLOW. That means that it is not possible to come up with a new way that works better. God would not be God if He gave us an imperfect Bible that had to changed by modern man to “make it work better”. If He is God, and He is, then doesn’t it make sense to follow His teaching the way that He intended from the beginning of time? As for intolerance toward other viewpoints, Most fundies, including me, are perfectly willing to “tolerate” (meaning to recognize the rights of others to hold those beliefs) the beliefs of others to the extent that the holding of those beliefs does not turn into the PROMOTION of those beliefs to the detriment of society. Some belief systems when privately held have no benefit to or degradation of society. A private anarchist for instance, would have little, if any affect on society. A PUBLIC anarchist on the other hand has the potential to cause great harm. A PRIVATE homosexual has little impact on society, but a PUBLIC homosexual causes the gradual degradation of our way of life.
As for the Bible being taught in the public schools as an elective course, there are some problems. First, If the teacher teaches the Bible as it was written, you Liberals would never stand for it. Every district in the state would be embroiled in law suits for the duration of time. Second, if it cannot be taught correctly, it should not be taught at all. I think a better idea is that if students want to take a Bible elective, they should do so at their own church and not at school. I would have no problem with them receiving a credit for a course taught off campus as long as the course was a real one (meaning that it has an approved syllabus that it follows), and that the state would have no control over content, only rigor. That type of release time has already been tested in the Supreme Court and it is perfectly within the rights of the student to take advantage of it and school districts are obligated to allow it. The only real change with this idea is that students would be given elective credit for the course.
By Renee
August 25, 2005 02:19 PM | Link to this
where did everyone go?
By Heather
August 25, 2005 02:57 PM | Link to this
So what happened here? Did everyone go to sleep or is the blog down?
By Kate
August 25, 2005 03:07 PM | Link to this
Did anyone respond to Diane’s comment that the study of “ultra-important” books belongs in college, not high school?
I find this interesting as I begin a year of teaching next Thursday - to a group of highschoolers. Our texts include Epic of Gilgamesh, the Iliad and the Odyssey, Plato’s Republic, selections from Herodotus and Thucydides, Aristotle, Vergil’s Aeneid and yes, the Bible We will also read some of the writings of Confuscius. Obviously, we believe ‘ultra-important’ books can be read in high school, does anyone else?
By Raylene
August 25, 2005 03:42 PM | Link to this
what kind of high school kate?
By Heather
August 25, 2005 03:43 PM | Link to this
Weird, so all day the last post was around 10am. Just now all of todays posts popped up. What happened here? Was it our system or ajc’s?
By GrownUpJRAKid
August 25, 2005 04:10 PM | Link to this
On topic, I don’t have a problem with the bible being discussed in public schools or being incorporated in some type of comparative religion class in higher grades, but I would not make it required material, nor would I devote a separate class to it.
About the obesity discussion - as an obese person whose weight is largely a result of health problems that started when I was an active, skinny teenager, I know that losing weight would make me healthier. As a mother of teenagers with a demanding full-time career and a disease to manage, things other than my personal nutrition often take priority, though diet is always on my mind. My complaint is that some people will overlook all my success, the responsible children I am raising and the activity level I maintain in spite of my disease and look down on me because of my weight.
As far as health care costs, according to statistics on the nih site, below, nearly 2/3 of American adults are overweight, 1/3 are obese. That means that the majority of the taxpayers who pay the extra burden for healthcare costs caused by unhealthy weight are themselves part of the problem. Now, you could argue that since non-obese people are in general more successful financially they pay a proportionally larger share of taxes. However, wouldn’t it be better to stop attacking and discriminating against overweight people as individuals and instead focus more on the factors in our society that are contributing to the problem? Otherwise that 2/3 majority is growing, not shrinking (no pun intended).
http://win.niddk.nih.gov/statistics/index.htm#preval
By Jack
August 25, 2005 04:22 PM | Link to this
Probably AJC. We were having too much fun. Can’t have that.
By Argy
August 25, 2005 04:26 PM | Link to this
A PUBLIC anarchist on the other hand has the potential to cause great harm. A PRIVATE homosexual has little impact on society, but a PUBLIC homosexual causes the gradual degradation of our way of life.
George,
Might I suggest, then, that you go back to being a private fundamentalist? After all, we wouldn’t want the secular government promoting your beliefs.
By CB
August 25, 2005 04:30 PM | Link to this
Does the name Russel Kirby hold any significance to anyone?
By AnswerPerson
August 25, 2005 04:34 PM | Link to this
ajc has been messed up today for posting to their blogs.
By ShantisALesbian
August 25, 2005 05:49 PM | Link to this
Shaunti is a moron. I can’t wait until she becomes a lesbian for a while and then converts herself back to heterosexual. If she can do it, I can do it! But until then, I just don’t believe it’s possible.
What a loon. I can’t believe anyone would take anything she says seriously.
I’m a public homosexual, lateedah, B***!
By Randy
August 26, 2005 09:37 AM | Link to this
Wow, someone who is so intelligent as to live a homosexual lifestyle is calling someone else a moron. Wow, Shantis must have alot of important information to give us all. Not. You’re the loon!!!
By taboga
August 26, 2005 09:51 AM | Link to this
Off subject (if there is one) - question about Iraq.
Let’s suppose. Just for the sake of discussion.
Iraq was a mistake. Iraq has nothing to do with the War on Terror. Iraq will never be a democratic society - they don’t want democracy. We can’t force our beliefs on them. No matter what we do in Iraq, it will have no impact on the Terrorists. The invasion of Iraq has increased terrorist recruitment. And as soon as we leave Iraq, anything that might have been accomplished - will be lost…
…If all of that were to be true, why then, are terrorists coming from all parts to desperately try and stop what we are doing? If all we are doing is a total waste and inconsequential to the War on Terror, then why don’t the terrorists just step aside and let us continue with our folly? Why are the terrorist groups wasting all this manpower and resources - trying to prevent something that supposedly has nothing to do with the War on Terror?
Could it possibly be, that the reason we haven’t had a rash of attacks here since 9/11, is because trying to stop what we are doing in the Middle East - is far more important to them than attacking us again at home?
And one more thing. If the Arab World supposedly hates us as much as it is told, why haven’t the 130,000 troops that we have sitting right in the middle of the region; surrounded by 10’s of millions Arabs - been overrun and squashed like road-kill by now?
By bonerday
August 26, 2005 09:59 AM | Link to this
and if the Iraqis did not support the insurgency, seems it would be much easier for the Arabs to squash the insurgents, being fewer of them.
insurgency also surrounded by tens of millions of Iraqis, correct?
really flowed logic there guy.
By Naimah Muhammad
August 26, 2005 10:01 AM | Link to this
In Response to BRUCE, Question, are you a Christian? I ask this because it seems odd to me that you would equate konwledge of the beginnig of mankind, to knowledge about a remote group of people in a remote place during a remote time. It is unlikely that a teenager will be divinely inspired by knowledge of this event. To agree with many others on this forum, it is most likely that when people study the Bible and the Religion of Christianity it will indeed leave a bad taste in their mouth.
By buildingbridges
August 26, 2005 10:31 AM | Link to this
Just being me
Not to add fuel to the fire and I know I’m a couple of days late on this but I had to pipe in.
5 years ago I was at a “heathy” weight (5’5 @ barely 130lbs), worked out regularly had just the right percentage of body fat recommended, didn’t smoke, drink, didn’t eat red meat, maintained a low sodium diet, i was the “covergirl” of health. Diagnosed with Cancer. Go ahead and tell me that overweight women NEED to lose weight for health reasons. Because of the type of cancer and the treatments I gained almost 100 lbs. Granted I’ve lost a good bit of that now but you are one of the people that would look at me and say “she needs to lose weight” Well HELL girl I’m trying! And to be that judgemental when you know nothing about the persons situation is sad. When you look at someone and tell them they need to do something, how do you know they aren’t trying? How do you know that person hasnt’ already lost 30 lbs and feeling pretty good about themselves and gaining confidence only to have someone like you bring them down a few pegs? How do you know that person you are calling fat has always been fat? People put enough pressure on themselves without having judgemental people pounding on them as well. And we wonder why there are so many self esteem problems out there…
Unfortunately my sister has struggled with weight all her life. She eats right, she excersices regularly and doesn’t drink except socially doesn’t smoke, doesn’t even drink soft drinks yet she cannot seem to lose weight. (no she doesn’t do FAD diets that’s a horrible generalization to make about “fat” people). My sister is probably 10x healthier than 80% of “skinny” people.
I will agree that there are fewer health risks to those at the normal weight ranges who ARE healthy. It does NO good to be at a “normal” weight range if they aren’t healthy (and in my case, it wouldn’t have mattered either way, explain that to me). Someone can eat ding dongs all day and stay at a normal weight and be just at risk as someone overweight.
By buildingbridges
August 26, 2005 10:37 AM | Link to this
correct me if I’m wrong, but isn’t sex supposed to be a private moment between two people? I know with me it is, I don’t want it blurted out to the world what I do behind closed doors with my lover.
heterosexual, homosexual, bisexual, whatever…it should all be private regardless of your preference!
I hold hands with my boyfriend while out at the movies… I guess then that I’m a public heterosexual. shrug
By Renee
August 26, 2005 10:43 AM | Link to this
Great comment buildingbridges, very well put.
Bruce, WHAT???
My personal feelings on the war in Iraq is I started off in support of it. I think Saddam needed to be taken out of power immediately. I think we have served our purpose now and it’s time to withdraw our troops. I think we could utilize our troops a lot better and focus on Osama.
By bonerday
August 26, 2005 10:51 AM | Link to this
and in some circles, buildingbridges would be called an obvious harlot for that public stuff. 1/2 joking
a relative took a canoe ride with a guy on a lake once and got called a harlot for it. she was a virgin.
By Ken
August 26, 2005 10:58 AM | Link to this
Why would studying the Bible and Christianity leave a “bad taste” in anyone’s mouth? People would learn tasteless things like:
I know, that sounds like terrible stuff, doesn’t it? It leaves an awful taste in my mouth.
By taboga
August 26, 2005 10:59 AM | Link to this
and if the Iraqis did not support the insurgency, seems it would be much easier for the Arabs to squash the insurgents, being fewer of them.
insurgency also surrounded by tens of millions of Iraqis, correct?
really flowed logic there guy.
I think it deciphered it all.
So following your “flowed logic” - two things.
Why, if the Iraqis (as a whole) are supporting the “insurgents” - aren’t their more insurgents?
Why then, are the “insurgents” who are supposedly being supported by the Iraqis - killing so many Iraqis who supposedly support them. And why are so many Iraqis coming forth to volunteer for the military and security forces; that are fighting against the insurgency?
By taboga
August 26, 2005 11:05 AM | Link to this
My personal feelings on the war in Iraq is I started off in support of it. I think Saddam needed to be taken out of power immediately. I think we have served our purpose now and it’s time to withdraw our troops. I think we could utilize our troops a lot better and focus on Osama.
Suppose we did “focus” on Osama - what would we gain from that? Suppose we catch him tomorrow - what would change?
By bonerday
August 26, 2005 11:10 AM | Link to this
I was merely pointing out that they fact our military not squashed by those surrounding tens-of-millions of Arabs did not really mean anything, in the same way the insurgents not being squashed by those same surrounding ten-of-millions of Arabs did not really mean anything.
By Archie
August 26, 2005 11:13 AM | Link to this
I have to defend JBM because she was not judging anyone. She made a comment based on an article in the newspaper about obesity and based on what another poster,Heather,said. JBM has not judged anyone. She has stated facts and some folk can’t deal with it. No one on this blog can answer for every individual’s situation. What happened to reading and comprehension? I am sitting at a computer and there’s no way I know the health or body makeup of other people on an internet blog. JBM doesn’t need approval to express her opinion on an internet blog and if you read and comprehend there’s no way she’s judging anyone. Over the last several months there have been articles printed on the subject of obesity and in those articles the people recommend that Americans lose weight. There is no way a reporter can write an article or dispense an opinion that applies to every human being. There is no way a doctor can say that every person who smokes will get lung cancer but he can say that for most people the chances of lung cancer go up as you smoke. Doctors can’t say every fat person will get diabetes or high blood pressure but doctors can give a medical opinion that recommends an overweight person lose weight. An internet blogger can give an opinion based on what he or she reads or knows but they have no way of knowing each individual situation.
By Bruce
August 26, 2005 11:16 AM | Link to this
Naimah Muhammad, I wasn’t trying to equate anything other than the passing of information. It doesn’t matter if I am a Christain or not, does it? Can you honestly say that witholding infromation on ANY subject gives the student a complete understanding of that subject?
Did you learn basic math, you know, adding, subtracting, etc… before you jumped to say algbra? Did you learn how to spell words before you begain to write sentences? Were you not taught WHY the Revolutionary War was fought or were you taught that some people had a disagreement and began a war? What did they disagree on?
See how it goes. If you do not teach ALL the information then all you have is a incomplete lesson that would leave unanswered questions.
You do not have to try to divinely inspire anyone, you are just giving ALL the facts about the subject.
By Jack
August 26, 2005 11:16 AM | Link to this
It was good to see Arafat take the dirt nap.
By bonerday
August 26, 2005 11:16 AM | Link to this
but I am merely one of those convoluted liberals who not only supported the war in Iraq from day one, still think that eventually buried WMDs will be found.
do you have your red shirt on today? Friday is the wear-red-to-support-the-war day.
By Renee
August 26, 2005 11:18 AM | Link to this
Osama is the terrorist behind most terrorists. He was the driving force behind 9/11 among other things. I think everyone would be much safer with him captured.
Having said that, there are thousands that think just like he does. So once he’s taken out of “power” someone else would just step up to the plate to pick up where he left off. In my opinion, and I am no army general in any sense, I think that maybe we should get the key players, then go after everyone else.
By buildingbridges
August 26, 2005 11:20 AM | Link to this
Bonerday Ohhh..I am a harlot.. L She really got called that? I didn’t even know that word was still used! see…judgemental people spouting off without knowing.
By Ben
August 26, 2005 11:22 AM | Link to this
Taboga - That’s a damn good question. I don’t think I have all of the answers, but this might support the other side of your question:
The reason terrorist or jihadist are coming from all over is because of their ideology. One of the main reasons, if not THE reason, terrorist hate us is because of ability to “meddle” in the affairs of others and force our ways on others. The fuel to that fire is probably Palestine.
They dont’ look at it as a waste of time or resources because it is their mission to terrorize, and as you know, sacrificing themselves while taking the lives of others is inherent in their mission and is glorified. So they don’t care if they blow their wad because any opportunity is a good opportunity for them. The come to Iraq to make their point and wreak havoc on the servicemembers that represent our “oppressive” government.
We are not overrun over there because the majority of the people there, Shiites and Kurds want a stable government. The majority of the resistance are the Sunnis, who make up a majority of the insurgency, and they were the “favored” people under Saddam’s rule, so of course they don’t want change.
Actually, while many of the Iraqis support our cause, they would rather us be gone now that Saddam is gone. They favor the removal but not the occupation.
The Iraqis who volunteer for the military, security forces and police are a whole different story.
By Bruce
August 26, 2005 11:24 AM | Link to this
Did anyone read the article where a Doctor is being sued becuase he told his patient she needed to lose weight? better watch out JBM…:-)
By taboga
August 26, 2005 11:26 AM | Link to this
For years on end, all we heard, was that we better not take any military action in the Middle East. Because if we do, the “Arab Street” will rise in unison to defeat us”. “It will be a blood bath”. “Millions of Arabs will be willing to die as martyrs if we take any agressive action in the Middle East”.
And all the while that we fretted over that, terrorist organizations continued to grow in size and number. We continued to leave them alone and they continued to grow. One terrorist act after another - and we continued to leave them alone. Again, they continued to grow and we continued to leave them alone while they committed acts of terrorism - one after the other.
And so now, many people believe, that the thing to do, is to get out of Iraq so that the terrorists will stop their attacks and leave us alone. We weren’t in Iraq on 9/11 and we were attacked, but if we get out of Iraq now - they will leave us alone?
By Jack
August 26, 2005 11:26 AM | Link to this
When Osama is captured or killed it will just elevate him to Martr status.
By bonerday
August 26, 2005 11:28 AM | Link to this
they were the “favored� people under Saddam’s rule, so of course they don’t want change
why am I reminded of American conservatives? LMAO
By Naimah Muhammad
August 26, 2005 11:32 AM | Link to this
Ken (Great Comment), Before people bombard me with personal attacks plesae read my original message and Ken’s message to understand the point I am trying to make. Why would Prostitution leave a bad taste in people’s mouth: 1) It fulfills the inheirent God give desire of sexual pleasures and longing of man to be with a woman and vice versa. (After all the Bible says that God made woman for mans companionship) 2) Prostitution may eliminate the need to rape, sex and illicit acts would freely be offered to anyone at anytime………get my drift!!! I am not debating my personl opinions on Christianity as a religion. Actually read the blog and the point will be clear…….Studying Christianity(which is in much more depth than just reading the Bible) may leave a bad taste in some people’s mouth! may even push people away from the concept of religion as a whole! Would care to discuss my Personal beliefs feel free to post Your e-mail address and we can definitely proceed from there.
By bonerday
August 26, 2005 11:33 AM | Link to this
buildingbridges - what is really funny about that is that she is gay now.
By Renee
August 26, 2005 11:34 AM | Link to this
My point today and always has been to JBM is that anyone can do as they feel. She says significantly overweight people NEED to lose weight because it will improve their health. To tell someone they NEED to do something to improve anything about themselves is ridiculous. Eat, smoke, do drugs, do anything you want to do to yourself.
And all the reports oming up with which states have bigger people are quite misleading. They use the BMI which does not allocate for muscle weight. On the BMI chart Shaquille O’Neal would be obese and he is just a giant. On a BMI chart everyone bigger than a bird needs to lose weight. Second of all, who asked for these reports. Is there absolutely nothing else to report on than people who are overweight and where they are situated about the country.
By Ken
August 26, 2005 11:38 AM | Link to this
Ben makes several excellent points. But I think it also illustrates the reason we need to focus on Iraq rather than go after Osama or others like him…
Taking out one terrorist leader will only make room for the next. The best way to defeat terrorism is to help establish and support governments that will not tolerate terrorist activities.
That will give the entire world more allies in this global struggle. It will also remove safe havens for terrorists to operate.
If we removed everything from the Middle East, including troops, support for Isreal, bought all of oil from other countries, etc. I believe we would STILL be targets of Islamic terrorists. Those groups simply do not believe in our way of life and they have made it their goal to destroy it.
By Bonerday
August 26, 2005 11:40 AM | Link to this
Renee - if we(USA govt) spend money to study the emotional well-being of prostitutes living in Bolivian brothels(a former Fleecing of America award from that Wisconsin senator who gave them, cannot remember his name), why would we not study obesity by region here?
By Ben
August 26, 2005 11:41 AM | Link to this
Leaving Iraq is not the way to do it. What we should do is increase the resources and start cleaning house. Forget public perception, pack up the media and tell them to leave or they won’t be babysat anymore. Take to the target areas and just start kicking in doors.
The problem is, there will ALWAYS be terrorist. They aren’t going anywhere. Keeping them in Iraq to fight isn’t really doing anything as long as our men and women are dying over there. Why would they spend money to attack here, when we are right there. The same affect. Americans are dying.
There is no fool proof way of stopping terrorist, so we just need to finish what we started and pull chocks. Stabilize Iraq the best we can and come home and implement the necessary protections. Starting with immigration and the borders.
By bonerday
August 26, 2005 11:43 AM | Link to this
William Proxmire was the Wisconsin Senator
By Ken
August 26, 2005 11:43 AM | Link to this
Renee… You are absolutely right. People can and should be able to do anything they wish, but they should not EXPECT someone else to take care of them when those actions bring forth severe consequences.
Once people take responsibility for their actions, then I believe EVERYONE would agree with you.
By Renee
August 26, 2005 11:47 AM | Link to this
Bonerday - I’m not familiar with that. I don’t have a problem with research though. I’m just saying the reports are not accurate using the information given.
By buildingbridges
August 26, 2005 11:47 AM | Link to this
bonerday - haha..well isn’t that rich! Yeah proof you can’t listen to other peoples “opinions” about you.
By taboga
August 26, 2005 11:50 AM | Link to this
Good points Ben - but I disagree with the statements below:
The reason terrorist or jihadist are coming from all over is because of their ideology. One of the main reasons, if not THE reason, terrorist hate us is because of ability to “meddle� in the affairs of others and force our ways on others. The fuel to that fire is probably Palestine.
Radical Islam, IMO - doesn’t hate us at all. They simply feel it is their obligation to destroy us - as we are Satan - in their belief.
It has nothing to do with anything we have done, but rather who we are to them.
That is the only reasonable explantion. Reasonable, because history is full of oppression and domination, but the recipients of such are never willing to kill themselves along with other innocents - as a means of retaliation.
We have to separate ordinary Arabs from the Jihadists. Ordinary Arabs may dislike us for our support of Israel and other things - which can be understandable. But we can’t confuse the whole of the Arab world with the Jihadists - they are apples and oranges.
All Americans and our interests could leave the Middle East tomorrow and the only change that would occur as far as the Jihadists are concerned - is that they would be even more emboldened!
By Archie
August 26, 2005 11:51 AM | Link to this
It is not ridiculous to tell someone they need to do something to improve themselves. Any adult knows that he/she can do what he/she wants but people can say on an internet blog whatever they want and either you accept or reject it. It is crazy thinking to do whatever you want to yourself because it will eventually affect others. Let me connect the dots, if I shoot myself to death it may cause my child to have psychological problems throughout life. If I use a needle to inject drugs into my body I might pass on a disease to my spouse, you know because that’s one way HIV is contracted. If a father and husband intentionally ruins his health it may cause his spouse to lose her job and/or ruin the family’s credit overall. Someone will always tell you what to do to improve yourself one or the other. Someone will always give an opinion.
By Renee
August 26, 2005 11:52 AM | Link to this
Ken, I agree with you 100%. Seeing a smoker sue a tobacco company or an overweight person suing a fast food company is ridiculous. I haven’t heard of the seatbelt issue but I think if someone needs to make any customizations it should be at their cost.
By Jennifer
August 26, 2005 11:53 AM | Link to this
I do agree with you Ken. If more people took responsibility fo rtheir action, maybe peoplep wouldn’t be sitting around continuously asking ‘What can the government do to regulate/fix/stop this or that.
By Renee
August 26, 2005 11:56 AM | Link to this
Giving an opinion is different from saying “you are overweight, you need to lose weight” or “you need to stop smoking”.
By Ben
August 26, 2005 12:03 PM | Link to this
Taboga - I agree with your statement and it better explains what I meant. 100% true. Your explanation is the same reason we are not overrun in the streets.
Regardless of what we do over there, problems will persist. If the government stands as it is now, the Sunnis will fight and eventually provoke a Civil war. Their military and enforcement folks are not up to the task of keeping Iraq under control. They are TOO bound by religion and if Civil War breaks out, they will fight with their families and religious beliefs. The big picture is not that pretty regardless of what we accomplish.
By Archie
August 26, 2005 12:05 PM | Link to this
“Giving an opinion is different from saying “you are overweight, you need to lose weightâ€? or “you need to stop smokingâ€?.”
Renee those statements are nothing but opinions. Are you struggling with your vocabulary? If I tell someone you need to stop drinking it’s an opinion. Check this out: A belief or conclusion held with confidence but not substantiated by positive knowledge or proof: “The world is not run by thought, nor by imagination, but by opinion” (Elizabeth Drew). A judgment based on special knowledge and given by an expert: a medical opinion. A judgment or estimation of the merit of a person or thing: has a low opinion of braggarts. The prevailing view: public opinion. Law A formal statement by a court or other adjudicative body of the legal reasons and principles for the conclusions of the court.
By Naimah Muhammad
August 26, 2005 12:07 PM | Link to this
IN RESPONSE TO BEN….MAYBE YOU MEANT IT OR MAYBE YOU DIDNT BUT I MUST MUST POINT OUT THAT THE WORD “JIHADIST” (SO YOU CALL THEM)NOT IS NOT SYNONYMOUS WITH THE WORD TERRORISTS. IT WOULD BE RUDE AND BLATANTLY DISRESPECTFUL TO SAY THE PRIESTS OR THE RAPISTS ARE TEARING DOWN THE CATHOLIC CHURCH. EVERY MUSLIM IS NOT A TERRORISTS AND EVERY CATHOLIC PRIESTS IS NOT A RAPISTS. IN THE BIBLE THERE IS THE STORY OF SACRIFICE WHEN MOSES WAS CALLED TO SALUGHTER HIS SON IN THE NAME OF GOD, AND JUST AS HE WAS ABOUT TO..GOD CALLED HIM TO REPLACE HIS SONS LIFE FOR THAT OF AN ANIMAL, SO CALL THE GREAT PROPHET MOSES A TERRORISTS BECAUSE HE IS WILLING TO STRUGGLE FOR THE CAUSE OF ALLAH. THERE IS NO TRANSLATEABLE ENGLISH WORD FOR THE ARABIC WORD JIHAD: SO TO PUT IT IN LAMAINS TERM JIHAD MEANS TO STRUGGLE OR FIGHT FOR THE CAUSE OF ALLAH……SHORT AND SIMPLE EVERY MUSLIM IS NOT A TERRORISTS AND IT IS VERY STEREOTYPICAL AND IGNORANT OF YOU STATE SO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
By Zack
August 26, 2005 12:12 PM | Link to this
Like many other questions on this blog, this one doesn’t deserve to be dignified by answering it, but I will anyway.
Of course!
Yes, Bible courses should be allowed in schools. Contrary to the ACLU-influenced lies in schools today, this country WAS founded upon the Bible, and there is absolutely nothing unconstitutional at all about having such a class.
Of course, I’m not surprised by the level of bigotry against Christians and the opposition to the recognition of the obvious fact that there’s a God. Some people don’t want the 100%-effective method of abstinence in schools because it points to morality! Some people don’t want Creationism in schools, even though the only so-called argument against it is the fact that we can’t see God, although we don’t have to; we see His creation, which proves His existence immediately.
I’m tired of all these bigoted questions. Let’s be truthful for a moment here: Darwinism is a religion. Socialism is a religion. Marxism is a religion. Relativism is a religion. Atheism is a religion. Agnosticism is a religion. Communism and capitalism are religions. Many of what I just mentioned are portrayed as “worldviews” or are operating under the guise of “economic theory.” To say that Christianity should be blocked from schools because it’s a religion is wrong!
If Christians would avoid these “40 days of Purpose” churches and return to living for the Lord and standing up for God, we’d then see a change, a long-overdue change.
By Len
August 26, 2005 12:13 PM | Link to this
It was Abraham that God called on to sacrifice his son, moron.
By Tim
August 26, 2005 12:24 PM | Link to this
thanks for pointing that out Len… I was about to
By buildingbridges
August 26, 2005 12:27 PM | Link to this
Last comment (atleast for now)
What is it with calling people moron, idiot, and other demeaning names?!? Correcting someone’s biblical reference and then preceeding it with “moron” just overshadows the point you just tried to make..
By Ben
August 26, 2005 12:28 PM | Link to this
Naihmah Muhammad - Excuse me for my lack of political correctness or understand of the muslim, islamic or whatever meaning for Jihad or Jihadist. But when the bearded guy gets on TV or does his Webcast and calls for Jihad against the American Infidels then I have no choice but to call those who follow his call Jihadist. And forgive me if I consider some freak who straps a bomb to his chest and detonates in a crowded square with innocent people and children a terrorist.
I never said anything about muslims, I’m talking about the freaks, cowards and ball-less individuals better known as insurgents.
By Ken
August 26, 2005 12:31 PM | Link to this
Thanks Len… You beat me to it… Though I would not have called him moron.
Also…
The reason the terms are used synonymously now is that the people we refer to as terrorists refer to themselves as jihadists. We do not make that corroloation, the terrorists do.
They desperately want to put legitimacy behind the killing of innocent people so they tell it us it is in the name of Allah. Christians did the same thing 1000 years ago and we now recognize their actions as .
If our mainstream media called them what they are cold-blooded, animalistic, vicious murderers we would not have any discrepencies with the term. Unfortunately, they will not simply call a spade a spade.
By Naimah Muhammad
August 26, 2005 12:34 PM | Link to this
LEN **WHOEVER IT WAS, I DON’T BELIEVE IN THE BIBLE AND AM NOT A SCHOLAR, WHETHER ABRAHAM, MOSES OR JESUS…THE FACT STILL REMAINS. AND I WILL NOT BEGIN TO ADDRESS THE ISSUE OF YOU CALLING ME A MORON….YOU NEED TO LEARN A LOT MORE RESPECT FOR PEOPLE, BELIEVE WHAT OU WANT TO YOU WONT DISRESPECT AND OR HURT ME!
By Ken
August 26, 2005 12:43 PM | Link to this
Sorry, comment got cut off…
Christians did the same thing 1000 years ago and we now recognize their actions as “insert adjective here”.
By NAIMAH MUHAMMAD
August 26, 2005 12:49 PM | Link to this
IN RESPONSE TO KEN, YOU BELIEVE THAT THE EXTREMIST )OR WHATEVER WORD YOU WANT TO USE)KILL INNOCENT PEOPLE, PLEASE PEOPLE PLEASE DO RESEARCH ON THE WAR. IN ALL OF THE COMBINED YEARS HOW MANY TIMES HAS THE AMERICAN ARMY “ACCIDENTALLY” BOMBED HOUSE, CIVILIANS, AND NON COMBATANT ENTITIES. 9/11 WAS A TRAVESTY I DONT TAKE ANYTHING AWAY FROM THAT, BUT AS FAR AS BEING WORRIED ABOUT INNOCENT PEOPLE MAYBE THE US SHOULD HIRE YOU TO HELP THEM LOCATE “ACTUAL TARGETS” AGREE WITH THE WAR OR NOT YOU DO AGREE WITH THE FACT THAT ON CNN, ABS, NBC, CBS, AND NPR..FROM THE AJC TO THE NEWYORK TIMES THERE HAVE BEEN COUNTLESS AND I DO MEAN COUNTLESS REPORTS OF THE US ATTACKING NON CITIZENS. JUST BECAUSE THE HARSH REALITIES DONT HIT HOME ON DAY TO DAY BASIS DO NOT MEAN THEY DONT EXIST. HOW MANY AMERICAN CHILDREN HAVE BEEN ON THEIR WAY TO SCHOOL AND HAVE BEEN BLOWN TO BITS AND PEICES BECAUSE A BOMB WAS DROPPOED A MILE AWAY, 9/11 WAS ONE INCIDENT(ALL BE IT VERY TRADGIC OR HOWEVER YOU SPELL IT) BUT REALITY HERE PEOPLE THIS IS AN EVERYDAY OCCURENCE FOR FAMILIES OVERSEAS. IMAGINE YOUR CHILD TRAVELING THREE MILES TO SCHOOL WITHOUT YOU BECAUSE SOMEONE ACCIDENTALLY SHOT UP AN INNOCENT CAR OF WHAT AMERICANS THOUGHT WERE INSURGENTS OR JIHADISTS, I AM PROBABLY ONE OF THE MOST NON CONFRONTATIONAL PEOPLE YOU WILL EVER MEET(OR HEAR FROM) BUT I MUST RESPOND ON AN ISSUE THAT I FEEL VERY STRONGLY ABOUT. INNOCENT PEOPLE SHOULD NOT DIE…BUT THERE ARE WAYYY MORE INNOCENT PEOPLE DYING EVERY MINUTE IN IRAQ AND OVERSEAS THAN IN AMERICA DUE TO THIS WAR!
By Ben
August 26, 2005 12:53 PM | Link to this
And the “insurgents” are doing the killing! Are you blind?
By Jennifer
August 26, 2005 12:57 PM | Link to this
Naimah Muhammad - Do you always scream to get your point across? And if I’m not wrong, no one said that every Muslim was a terrorist. What is up with you and rapists? How could you possibly think that legalizing prostitution would help eliminate rape or any other sexual abuse in any way?!?!?!?!? Rape is not about the sex…DUH? And if you don’t want to be called moron…quite acting like one!!!
By Ken
August 26, 2005 01:01 PM | Link to this
Naimah… A couple of things…
Please turn off the CAPS lock. It is difficult to read your responses.
Most of the folks on this BLOG are highliy intelligent, well-read individuals and will call you out on suspect facts. If you quote a source, especially the Bible, you better know what you’re talking about. Otherwide, preface with some discalimer.
The fact remains that the individuals we call “terrorists” call their actions “jihad”. Therefore we have a corrolation that offends your sensibilities.
I acutally do know someone, a relative of mine, who was a target hunter. They do not “target” civilian places. Unfortunately the “terrorists” hide in civilian homes, amongst the innocent crowds and places of worship. IMHO much of the collateral damage should be attributed to the cowards hiding behind civilians.
Sorry but conducting and video taping a beheading is animalistic behavior. Perhaps you would feel the same way if you watched your brother/father/son have his head cut off with a knife.
By Jack
August 26, 2005 01:03 PM | Link to this
NAIMAH MUHAMMAD. Innocent civilians lose their lives in ALL wars. Everyone that died in New York & Washington & Pennsylvania due to the attacks were murdered INTENTIONALLY. Ben’s comment was for those who committed and endorsed those murders, not against the innocents. Are you defending those who flew the planes into the buildings?
By Argy
August 26, 2005 01:04 PM | Link to this
Please, please, please stop shouting…
By taboga
August 26, 2005 01:24 PM | Link to this
Naimah,
Informing someone that “All Muslims are not Terrorists” - is just plain silly.
Of course all Muslims are not terrorists - and who do you think believes they are?
And what difference does it make which name we refer to terrorists by? Everyone knows who you’re talking about when you say Jihadists. What the technical definition of it is in Arabic and thus the English translation - is totally irrelevant in a conversational context.
BTW - Not all Italians were in the Mafia either. Just in case someone may be in doubt.
By NAIMAH MUHAMMAD
August 26, 2005 01:33 PM | Link to this
COWARDS, IF THATS WHAT YOU CHOOSE TO CALL THEM, I WOULD SAY THAT EITHER YOU HAVE NO KNOWLEDGE OF HOW MUCH “SECRET” THINGS GO ON BEHIND US DOORS OR DONT CARE, THE US (AND U MUST NOTE IM SPEAKING OF THE GOVT AND NOT INDIVIDUAL SOLDIERS) ARE THE BIGGEST COWARDS IN THE HISTORY OF LIFE. EXTREMISTS, JIHADISTS, TERRORISTS, MURDERERS OR WHAT HAVE YOU EXCERCISE THERE TACTICS IN THE NAME OF GOD, THE US DOES IT IN THE NAME OF OIL! THEN THEY(THE GOV’T) GET ON TV TO PRAY TO GOD, WHETHER YOU BELIEVE THAT JESUS(PBUH) IS GODS SON AND SAVIOR, IF YOU DONT BELIEVE IN JESUS(PBUH) AND ARE STILL WAITING ON A SAVIOR, OR YOU BELIEVE THAT JESUS(PBUH) WAS A GREAT PROPHET, YOU ALL KNOW WE PRAY TO THE SAME GOD! YOU KNOW THE TRUTH, PEOPLE KNOW THAT THE AMERICAN GOVT IS HIDING THINGS FROM THE US CITIZENS JUST AS THEY HAVE IN THE PAST WITH :THE TUSKEEGEE EXPERIMENT, VIETNAM, AND CIGARETTES….NOT DONE YET
By Sandy/Sanhan
August 26, 2005 01:37 PM | Link to this
Terrorists are coming to Iraq to attack US forces to take advantage of the instability we have created there, and to exploit our current weakness. We are perceived as an occupying force who have made a Muslim country less tolerable than it was under Saddam’s dictatorship. Our forces ruined the infrastructure eliminating fresh water and electricity, which years later have not been restored. We did not stop the looting that ensued, nor did we engage the army or civilians to help rebuild, perpetutating this administration’s desire for continued chaos. We pepetuated the horrors of Abu Ghraib (more pictures and documentation of torture, rape, including that of children are currently being released). These horrors were coordinated by mercenary forces pretending to be military forces. An interview of General Karpinski, outlines the grievous policies of the DOD, including widespread corruption relating to nonmilitary contractors.
If the fledgling constitution gets anywhere at all, besides helping to build a stronger Iran, we will have succeeded in establishing (another) Muslim theocracy where there was none before. Women will suffer huge setbacks from the secular law that Saddam established. Many women have stated that they will not stay, and many said that they were better off under Saddam’s dictatorship, even with his depraved sons running around. Our own depravity and indifference to the lives of Iraqis has become the siren call for terrorism recruitment; talk about instant karma.
Everyone in support of this war keeps insisting that comparisons to Vietnam are erroneous, but even Bush is channeling Nixon, perhaps due to comparisons of their approval ratings, plagerizing the line “Peace with honor.” If anything, maybe if we leave now, we might get lucky and get the same result as we did when we left Vietnam; Saigon fell to the communists, and they were no threat to us.
Let’s talk about conservative hypocrisy for a bit. They wanted this war, rushed into it, declared and end to major combat, but did not supply our troops nor execute the war properly, and have no exit plan. But they did manage tax cuts, serving the conservative mantra, “I got mine.”
Conservatives love personal responsibility, but when it counts the most, when our troops are at risk, they are not holding this administration accountable. No, it’s easier to blame liberals for not supporting the war and blame us for hating America. It’s easier to smear the reputation of anyone who dare criticize the incompetence of this president and his neocon underlings, easier to hide from the truth.
But enough blame. What can we do to solve the problems we’ve made? I say “we” because this involves all Americans, the whole political spectrum. We could actually take the cash we’re spending on mercenary troops, supply the real troops with the armor and weapons they need, pay them a living wage and ensure their medical care postwar. With this measure we might possibly meet the recruiting quotas. We could actually build the coalition Bush promised and secure the borders. If we are not willing to assume responsiblity for the problems we’ve made, we might just as well leave.
As far as getting Bin Laden, it would send the message that we really are fighting against terrorism, as he was the one responsible for 9/11, not Saddam. A mixed message to our beleaguered troops, but a message nonetheless. Of course Bush himself has admitted that we can never eliminate terrorism. When liberals say it, we’re unpatriotic. What is it when the president declares war on it, bungles it, and then says it cannot be done?
Cindy Sheehan is asking the correct question: For what noble cause did my son die? Truth and accountability should not be considered unpatriotic.
By Bruce
August 26, 2005 01:39 PM | Link to this
I don’t get it. Naimah is mad at us for a term we use all the while almost every death in Iraq so far this year can be contributed to terroists minded folks. To me that is proof that Sadamm supported terroism. He taught them how to kill their own.
Taboga,
I’ll go one step further. Not all people that live in the south are rednecks.
By Jack
August 26, 2005 01:40 PM | Link to this
Am biting my lip, be calm……
By NAIMAH MUHAMMAD
August 26, 2005 01:42 PM | Link to this
TABOGA- you can pick and pull irrevelant information out…oops not irrevelant because you yourself said “The reason terrorist or jihadist are coming from all over is because of their ideology. One of the main reasons, if not THE reason, terrorist hate us is because of ability to “meddleâ€? in the affairs of others and force our ways on others. The fuel to that fire is probably Palestine.” Jihad is called upon every Muslim by Allah in the Quran, so yes a Jihadist is a Muslim…. And jennifer if you read my BOLDED disclaimer you should have read the previous conversations, of course I dont think prostitution should be legalized, NOW back from all the side jargon to the ORIGINAL point….all Muslims are not terrorists…and Ken if thats not you were saying then thankyou…because That is the point I was trying to get across.
By Jennifer
August 26, 2005 01:57 PM | Link to this
Naimah, who could possibly stand reading THAT much BOLD PRINT. I did read - what I could. What I found was someone spouting the Bible with a self-proclaim lack knowledge concerning it. AGAIN - NO ONE SAID THAT ALL MUSLIMS WERE TERRORIST….
By NAIMAH MUHAMMAD
August 26, 2005 01:58 PM | Link to this
BRUCE- I am mad at no one….my point is that all Muslims are not terrorists. Because of your lack of knowledge about Islam you(as in people on this forum) have used terms interchangeably that are not interchangeable that just dont mean the same thing. I can debate with the best of them, but argue I do not. And yes as long as there is a PUBLIC forum and I see untruths posted I WILL respond. Bruce I am not mad and the brightness of my day has not lessened one but. But I do stand firm and will continue to stand firm in saying that not all Muslims are terrorists.
By Renee
August 26, 2005 02:06 PM | Link to this
I think we are clear that not all Muslims are not terrorists. Anyone not clear?
Did anyone say anything to the contrary?
By Tim
August 26, 2005 02:11 PM | Link to this
so what you’re trying to say is not all muslims are terrorists? just making sure I understood correctly
By Jack
August 26, 2005 02:13 PM | Link to this
Mr.MUHAMMAD I’m not to happy about you calling those in our goverment cowards. There are some but not all. Practice what you preach. You should appreciate the fact that here in the U.S.A., you can speak out against the government without fear of being locked away or killed. You can thank the “cowards” for that privledge you so enjoy.
By Scalia
August 26, 2005 02:13 PM | Link to this
Have a good weekend, and drink lots of beer. I am off to watch some baseball, ESPN, and hope to see Javy Lopez annd his butt squatting at the homeplate.
Too bad Mike Hampton won’t be pitching. That’s a nice butt.
By Mobster
August 26, 2005 02:14 PM | Link to this
I can say with crystal clarity that all mobsters are not Italian since I am Irish. so there.
By NorthernRedneck
August 26, 2005 02:16 PM | Link to this
Not all rednecks are Southeners. Who said that they were? huh? huh? I live near Loudon and watch Nascar.
By Jack
August 26, 2005 02:17 PM | Link to this
What???? I thought all Italians were in the mafia. What do I tell Uncle Vito? Sonny? Michael??
By Argy
August 26, 2005 02:18 PM | Link to this
I still don’t get it. I thought all Muslims were terrorists.
By Jack
August 26, 2005 02:21 PM | Link to this
Scalia. Nice butts are in the eyes of the beholder. LOL
By Renee
August 26, 2005 02:22 PM | Link to this
Haha…ya’ll are killing me….wait, wait….I have a statement.
NOT ALL MUSLIMS ARE TERRORISTS!
Now I have a question
ARE ALL TERRORISTS MUSLIM?
I could keep going…
By buildingbridges
August 26, 2005 02:25 PM | Link to this
I just stepped back in for a minute to check how things are going. I’ve been mulling over the entire conversation here.
I’ve just got some points to make. (forgive spelling errors please!)
Not all italians are in the mob not all mobsters are italian Not all muslims are terrorists not all terrorists are muslm not all Christians are bible thumping judgementalists (made up word, you like?) not all judgementalists are christian not all irishmen are drunks not all drunks are irishmen not all germans are natzis not all natzis are german not all americans support bush gasp not all bush supporters are american not all bush supporters support the war not all war supporters are bush supporters
hmmm….just goes to show that generalizations cannot be accurately made! :) The only generalization that I can make is that we are all passionate about something and THAT is what is important!
By buildingbridges
August 26, 2005 02:29 PM | Link to this
northern redneck..
not all nascar fans are rednecks! heheh. Or maybe I’m just a PRIVATE redneck as opposed to a public redneck.
By Jack
August 26, 2005 02:29 PM | Link to this
so what you’re trying to say is all muslims are terrorists? just making sure I understood correctly…
By Ben
August 26, 2005 02:30 PM | Link to this
You can’t debate with anyone because you don’t make sense.
By NascarFan
August 26, 2005 02:31 PM | Link to this
Now just because I like NASCAR does not make me a redneck, Northern Redneck. And if I lived near Loudon, I would want to move south. You mean there are STUPID northern rednecks?
By Jack
August 26, 2005 02:33 PM | Link to this
Wonder if we got his blood pressure up? hehehe!
Zzzzzzz. Where’s Whiley? It’s so boring. Help!!!!
By buildingbridges
August 26, 2005 02:34 PM | Link to this
Ben honey, who are you talking to? I hope some of us have made sense. :)
By Bobb
August 26, 2005 02:37 PM | Link to this
All Muslims aren’t terrorists for sure. All Muslims aren’t Arabs either, but there sure seems to a plentiful supply of Arab terrorists (or “insurgents� as the press prefers to call those vacationing in Iraq). The general impression is that the overwhelming majority of Arabs are Muslims. I think it is called guilt by association, kind of like people of the WWII generation used “Germans� and “Nazis� interchangeably. May not be fair, but it comes with the territory.
By Ben
August 26, 2005 02:37 PM | Link to this
I was talking to Mr. or Mrs. Muhammad
By Jack
August 26, 2005 02:39 PM | Link to this
I didn’t like NASCAR until I went to a race. TV does it no justice. Hot babes and fast cars. Whats not to like?
By Joker
August 26, 2005 02:40 PM | Link to this
to quote my southern brother-in-law: “Of course there are rednecks up north, they just talk with an accent”
By bonertoday
August 26, 2005 02:45 PM | Link to this
Heard a lengthy piece on NPR this morning about Islamic terrorists operating in southern Thailand, most Malay in culture but Thai in nationality. Killing Buddhist teachers, principals, etc. An area annexed by Thailand 100 years ago. Sounded like an economic, not religious, conflict, as aren’t most conflicts.
By Jack
August 26, 2005 02:46 PM | Link to this
Scalia. You watch the Braves and I’ll watch beach volleyball. And have a Corona too!
By buildingbridges
August 26, 2005 02:47 PM | Link to this
Jack - you are absolutetly right! TV doesn’t do it justice at all! I’m not sure which babes your talking about but the hot babes to me are the drivers. I agree with the statement hot babes and fast cars. What’s not to like!
Bobb - I don’t know if you were responding to anything about my post, it was just in silliness, but since there are several others about that, I just wanted to clarify.
Ben - That’s who I thought you meant, just wasn’t sure. :)
By George Bush
August 26, 2005 02:50 PM | Link to this
But all Americans are idiots that why they keep going overseas to get killed, and thats why they keep electing ME!
By Bruce
August 26, 2005 02:52 PM | Link to this
You can tell it is Friday……
By Ben
August 26, 2005 02:53 PM | Link to this
Keyword: ALL.
By buildingbridges
August 26, 2005 02:56 PM | Link to this
ok “george bush” you aren’t fooling anyone and I know your a ‘troll’ just wanting a rise, well you’ve got it. Since to you all americans are stupid, then GET OUT OF MY COUNTRY! Your probably here illegally anyways and don’t deserve the rights of MY constitution!
By Good ol' America
August 26, 2005 02:57 PM | Link to this
While everybody is in such support of America’s gov and their deciscions, support gas at 3.00 a gallon, or milk almost 4.00 a gallon, support failing public schools, and a deminishing army, support $0.00 in social security.
By good ol' america
August 26, 2005 03:02 PM | Link to this
Hey Stop blogging and start jogging…all you oversized over zealouts supersized americans!
By Jack
August 26, 2005 03:03 PM | Link to this
Buildingbridges. I was referring to the babes in the stands :)
By buildingbridges
August 26, 2005 03:06 PM | Link to this
Hahahha. jack, well then your referring to me! wink Just teasing. I swear I’m not the over sun-tanned leathery 65 year old wearing a bikini top and Gordon tatooes absolutetely covering every inch of her back. (true story, last year at Atlanta race in October).
By Bobb
August 26, 2005 03:06 PM | Link to this
Buildingbridges - No, I didn’t see your post until after I sent mine. I was responding in general to the thread about not all Muslims being terrorists.
By raylene
August 26, 2005 03:07 PM | Link to this
um they arent going by choice. oh dear dumba$$ mr president. you keep sending them. so bite me dough boy!
By Ben
August 26, 2005 03:08 PM | Link to this
Weekends are like sex: You anticipate them all weekend but before you know it, it’s all over.
Gotta go!
By Ben
August 26, 2005 03:10 PM | Link to this
week i meant week. lol
By George Bush
August 26, 2005 03:13 PM | Link to this
Illegal, your great grandparents are probably from Italy or Europe, America belongs to no one but the Indigenous people who MAM you are telling to get out of your country. most Indigenous ie Native Americans ie Indians were driven down to Mexico, so know dont patrol the borders or tell Me to get out of YOUR country, flip your constitution because it doesnt even gurantee everybody the right to vote, African-Americans(Whom YOUR country literally stole) right to vote will be up in a few years because the amendement had a time limit on it. Yes YOUR great country and you surely are a PRODUCT of it! Ms. or Mr. Building Bridges
By Bobb
August 26, 2005 03:14 PM | Link to this
Ben - Hey man, your special someone must really be looking forward to the weekend as much as you.
By Bobb
August 26, 2005 03:18 PM | Link to this
Hey George B - So that means Europe really belongs to the Neanderthals?
By Jack
August 26, 2005 03:21 PM | Link to this
Well Raylene. Where have you been? We’ve been waiting…:)
By Mobster
August 26, 2005 03:24 PM | Link to this
Italy or Europe
wow two different things.
does Ireland count as a third?
it is a funny late Friday, for those with mis-placed corncobs who might think otherwise.
By buildingbridges
August 26, 2005 03:33 PM | Link to this
LMAO OH I know that I should use common sense not to respond. I was born in America, THEREFOR making me American. If my grandparents came over from somewhere else then they would have had NOTHING to do with the Native Americans being pushed off the land seeing that THAT happened long before even THEIR parents were thought of. My great-great grandmother came over from scotland, and my great grandfather came over from Ireland. Still, neither came on the Plymoth nor did they push any Native americans off their land NOR did they own slaves.
Don’t EVEN get me started on the right to vote!!! Women didn’t get the right to vote until the 1920’s! Almost 40 years AFTER african americans. (there’s your answer… I’m a woman)
BTW, I’d like to start being called Irish-scottish-dutch-french-indian american from now on. Yeah…I’m an 1/8 indian so don’t give me that either!
I’m AMERICAN BRED AND BORN!
By buildingbridges
August 26, 2005 03:39 PM | Link to this
The difference being… My ancestors didn’t sneak in under the eyes of the border and work illegally, never getting a green card, work visa or apply for duel citizanship and then file suits against companies that go against their constitutional rights…. HELLO!?!
By raylene
August 26, 2005 03:43 PM | Link to this
sorry jack, my pirate friend. i have been doing mine and heather’s jobs since 1, and my computer wasnt doing to well this morning…
By buildingbridges
August 26, 2005 03:44 PM | Link to this
Anyway, regardless of what you think “george” you didn’t upset me, I know your type out for the rile not even really caring what you say. I just like rebutting things that people like you say just to prove that I am actually knowledgeable. Even though it does no good when argueing with the ignorant.
By lozen
August 26, 2005 03:46 PM | Link to this
Just back from vacationing in New Mexico where the sun really shines, the sky is really blue and clouds are white and puffy. Where the air is fresh and crisp, and nights are so cool you don’t need AC even when the day is hot! Where you can see for 50 or 60 miles and there’s no humidity. A land of enchantment where people don’t know what mildew is, and you can actually be outside because there are no mosquitoes! It is the most beautiful place full of beautiful dark skinned, ebony haired, obsidian eyed people dripping with turquoise and silver. Really being able to see the stars is wonderful. As for this week’s question, I almost agree with Shaunti! “.. the reasonable middle here is that elective Bible courses must be allowed in public schools, so long as they are teaching about the Bible, not proselytizing.” Ha, ha, ha! Can’t you just hear the uproar from the fundies if the bible is taught without proselytizing, without claiming fundamentalist christianity is THE ONLY WAY and that every word of the King James bible is true? They aren’t going for that! I’m convinced if the bible were read by students, all of it, not just the psalms and genesis and the Jesus birth story, people would see clearly that it’s just a collection of folks tales no more true than Grimms Fairy Tales. I really don’t believe the bible will ever be taught in public schools without the proselytizing. Brian made a very good point about how fundies can’t stand the idea of sex education in public school, but they want bible education in public school? I don’t think so.
By Renee
August 26, 2005 03:48 PM | Link to this
Just had to add this. Even though African Americans were given the right to vote in the constitution, they still weren’t allowed in most states for many, many years after women were voting.
By bonertoday
August 26, 2005 03:48 PM | Link to this
buildingbridges - don’t forget about the lawsuits to allow the driving test to not be in ENGLISH. Seems all prior (Poles, Latvians, Germans, Finns, Swedes, etc)could learn English. I don’t do hyphenated-American either.
oh, I was also “Mobster” “Nascar Fan”(talking back to myself to) and “NorthernRedneck”. oh, and “Joker” ‘of course there are rednecks up north, they just talk funny’
By Jack
August 26, 2005 03:49 PM | Link to this
Buildingbridges. I’ll bet you can drink whiskey and play a good round of golf! Can you cook good strudel and wash it down with wine sitting in a high place? (just kidding)
By good ol' america
August 26, 2005 03:51 PM | Link to this
you all are idiots, who patronize americas mistreatment of anyone who doesnt benefit whether financially or socially my guess…..all of you are people who would check the box that says white on a job application, because African-Americans, Latinos, Arab-Americans, Jamaicans and other foreigners understand and are not blind to the atrocities that good ol’ america has done since the columbus discovered this place that was already filled with inhabitants…u wanna tell somebody where to go all u caucasians go back to the Caucas Mountains and see where where youre stocks and bonds get u over there.
By raylene
August 26, 2005 03:54 PM | Link to this
wow… than that would make me a german-scottish-irish-italian-english-ugala sue indian-american. i think that i would like to be called gsiieus american though.
By Crown
August 26, 2005 03:58 PM | Link to this
Seeing how this topic has become so boring that we have veered off to 12 other subjects, I decided to actually respond!
Just for everyone’s general knowledge, African Americans stand a better chance at tracing their American lineage than any other race, culture, etc. Most Europeans came to this country after the slaves. So if anyone tells me to go back to where I came from, I will simply tell them that there is no way on earth that I am moving back to that cold Pittsburgh weather!
By Argy
August 26, 2005 04:01 PM | Link to this
Wow, there seem to be a lot of Junior High/Middle School students on the weblog today. It’ll be nice when school gets back in session.
By Bobb
August 26, 2005 04:03 PM | Link to this
Hey, good ol’america - No, I personally refuse to check those boxes because my race or ethnic origin shouldn’t make a difference, especially in America.
P.S. Bite me
By Jack
August 26, 2005 04:04 PM | Link to this
Everything in this city is black vs. white except for this blog. Let’s keep it that way. Please.
By buildingbridges
August 26, 2005 04:05 PM | Link to this
Renee - your absolutetly right, I stand corrected.
bonertoday - You seriously don’t want to get me started on that one with the language.. lol My sister has to send home both english and spanish papers to the parents and they are “encouraging” teachers at her school to learn spanish. The only hyphen I willingly use is native american.
Jack - DARN straight!! whiskey playing golf is my favorite hobby! Too funny. I enjoy a good giggle on my behalf. haha.
Raylene - wow! hahaha. that’s a serious hyphen!
By buildingbridges
August 26, 2005 04:10 PM | Link to this
Crown - agreed! my mixed heritage is nowhere near traceable. I won’t even admit who I do know is down the line or I’ll get flamed and ripped all apart!!
Argy - I know..I’m sorry, some of my comments were childish, affects of well..I don’t think we ever grow up and always have the “I’m rubber your glue…” mentality.
By Archie
August 26, 2005 04:11 PM | Link to this
Renee your 3:48 post makes a lot of sense. Good job. Heck there was a reason you needed the voting rights act? Good job connecting the dots.
By Argy
August 26, 2005 04:12 PM | Link to this
Hold on, there, “George Bush.” You think that the amendment giving blacks the vote has a time limit on it?
Section 1. The right of citizens of the United States to vote shall not be denied or abridged by the United States or by any State on account of race, color, or previous condition of servitude.
Section 2. The Congress shall have power to enforce this article by appropriate legislation.
That’s it.
By raylene
August 26, 2005 04:14 PM | Link to this
hmmm maybe genius american. german-english-native american-italian & irish-scottish. hahaha genius!
By Whiley
August 26, 2005 04:14 PM | Link to this
Hi Jack ! I’m still here, in spirit. I’ve got nothing else to say really. It’s been a long hot week & I just only want to know when Will & Grace comes on.
By raylene
August 26, 2005 04:16 PM | Link to this
ah crap! i guess maybe im not a genius. i forgot the u. ok so german-english-native american-irish/italian-ugala sue-scottish. yeah thats better
By Jack
August 26, 2005 04:17 PM | Link to this
Gotta Go. Everyone have a good weekend. Love Ya!!
By Argy
August 26, 2005 04:17 PM | Link to this
BB,
Actually, I was referring to good ole america and george bush. If they’re the products of the Georgia public school system, then your state may have some serious problems down the road.
By Jack
August 26, 2005 04:18 PM | Link to this
Everyone have a good weekend. Love Ya!!
By bonertoday
August 26, 2005 04:21 PM | Link to this
buildingbridges - sorry, yes I would use the Native-American one. But that is IT. My view is either you are American or you are not. defeats the concept to do some hyphenated riggamarole
By Ben
August 26, 2005 04:22 PM | Link to this
Bobb - Obviously my wife wasn’t as excited about because she’s out shopping with her sister. By the way bridges, it was the Mayflower, wasn’t it. I thought Plymouth is the rock they ran into.
This Good ole’ America clown is an idiot! Obviously didn’t student the immigration hand book.
By raylene
August 26, 2005 04:24 PM | Link to this
bye jack! talk you next week!
By buildingbridges
August 26, 2005 04:28 PM | Link to this
Argy - NO kidding. I worry sometimes. I thought you were talking about them/him (sounds like the same person to me) but I did get a bit childish so thought I’d own up to it.
bonertoday - My view is either you are American or you are not
AMEN to that!
raylene - your a hoot!
By raylene
August 26, 2005 04:28 PM | Link to this
to^
By Archie
August 26, 2005 04:30 PM | Link to this
The point of being an American is that you call yourself anything you want. Something about free speech. I can myself a georgia-american or whatever. You can’t tell a race what to call themselves and you can’t tell folk who they can have sex with provided it’s legal. In other words homosexuality is legal like it or not. Since I am from south carolina I could say I am a carolina-american but I won’t. It’s beautiful that you can have hyphenated names because America is about freedom not approval at least I thought so. I am going to try take Jack’s advice.
By Shani
August 26, 2005 04:30 PM | Link to this
buildingbridges- women may have gotten the right to vote 40 years after african americans, but blacks were still being murdered for exercising that right long after the 1920s.
By raylene
August 26, 2005 04:34 PM | Link to this
yay! you like me today! woo hoo! =) lol i thought someone would… i am related to Daniel Boone… not that it matters. almost no one knows who he is.
By lozen
August 26, 2005 04:34 PM | Link to this
God would not be God if He gave us an imperfect Bible that had to changed by modern man to “make it work betterâ€?. Okay then, Chuck, I can say, “God would not be God if He gave us an imperfect Man that had to be changed by baptism to “make it work better”. God created man and woman in his image, right? And he is perfect. So how can we not be perfect?
By Fony FYI
August 26, 2005 04:35 PM | Link to this
The one person employed by AJC.com runs between forums and blogs, thus delay. Also there’s morning break, potty break, lunchtime, potty break, cell phone calls, potty break, sick child break and oil for the censor robot. It’s a rat race. Thought you’d like to know.
Oh, this blog may shut down early. Grandpa has a Little League game tonight. Also I forgot to tell you that I had a chili dog for lunch, fought in Iraq, made a sexy joke, explained religion, closed Carter’s sub base and captured a wild liberal.
I am “pooped”. Quit your complaining. TGIF!
By good ol' america
August 26, 2005 04:44 PM | Link to this
You can call your self__ American but the fact remains why would want to be known as an American? for every 1 country that America has not fought, tortured, and killed there are two that they have. Face it, u know like know, America is corrupt and greedy keep living a lie if you want to..thats why your children cant pray in school and all of your money is going into your gas tank! AMERICA THE BEAUTIFUL!!!!
By raylene
August 26, 2005 04:47 PM | Link to this
i wish i was related to some cool Italian Mobster, like Al Capone. i am very proud to be 1/4 Italian. so i’ve been told, my sperm donor was half…
By buildingbridges
August 26, 2005 04:48 PM | Link to this
shani - I already stood corrected on that. Although I imagine women still had many problems too even after given the right to vote. :)
I really don’t want to get caught up in a black and white arguement, no one can win with that and whats important is that everyone has those rights to vote now.
There are many degrees of discrimination.
Whenever I tell anyone that I’m from alabama their first response is one of distaste and jokes…in other words…discriminating comments.
My first engineering internship my supervisor told me that he didn’t think women belonged in the engineering field and that I certainly was going to fail at it and then proceeded to call me his “secretary” until I finally had enough and left. (note: nothing inferior about being a secretary, or admin assist.)
You deal with it and move on. :)
I too am out of here! Have great weekends, no hard feelings I’m never intending to offend anyone just as I’m sure most aren’t intending to offend me. Peace! :)
By RemindsMe
August 26, 2005 04:49 PM | Link to this
A Picture Book for Kid Conservatives
Los Angeles-based publishing house World Ahead is releasing a new children’s book entitled Help! Mom! There Are Liberals Under My Bed. The picture book features a Ted Kennedy character taxing away the profits from a lemonade stand while Hillary Clinton outlaws sugary drinks.
By Tim
August 26, 2005 04:52 PM | Link to this
Whiley I am ready for the season premiere of Will and Grace (last season… sooooo sad) and Desperate Housewives… I am sick of these stupid summer dancing shows! lol… give me some gays, Karen… and some messed up housewives… now that’s entertainment!!!
By buildingbridges
August 26, 2005 04:54 PM | Link to this
Raylene - before I leave I’ll admit who I’m related too.
And I do know who daniel boone is and I think that’s pretty darn cool!!!!
Robert E Lee is my Uncle (several times removed of course).
Ben - your right, I was typing so fast and blinded by irritation that I mis-spoke. It made me laugh reading your correction because it was such a stupid mistake!
Archie - also the beauty of it is, although anyone can call themselves whatever they want, that’s fine, no problems here, but I don’t have to if I don’t want to right? :) gotta love that.
By lupe
August 26, 2005 04:56 PM | Link to this
Such simple minds! The reason some people want to be called Native-Americans, African-Americans, etc. is because they are redefining themselves and their place in this country after years of being defined by the dominant white culture as “less-than-Americans”! Until you have been in the minority, (and it won’t be long until whites are the minority in the U.S.) you don’t know what you’re talking about. As soon as whites are outnumbered by Latinos, we’ll be defining you as the colorless-whites who are too dumb to learn spanish. I know you will be happy to be treated just the way you’ve treated minorities here. And there will be no english spoken in the schools; you will all be required to learn spanish. I know you are looking forward to that!
By raylene
August 26, 2005 05:00 PM | Link to this
i gotta go. tty monday!
By lozen
August 26, 2005 05:02 PM | Link to this
Hi Tim, mom is here. I’m afraid I missed the last few Will and Grace shows last season. What happened that was so sad, son?