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AJC > Sports > UGA > Blog > Archives > 2006 > May > 03 > Entry
Play for pay?
The Atlanta Journal-Constitution
In today’s AJC, NCAA President Myles Brand addressed the issue of paying stipends to student-athletes by saying he supports making scholarships cover the full cost of a college education but not “paying” college players.
Currently, he noted, the average athletic scholarship falls a couple of thousand dollars short of covering that “full cost.” As he put it, “supplying the support that’s necessary to be a successful student is very different from paying student-athletes.”
I can understand the reasoning behind the stipend argument — after all, college athletics is literally making millions of dollars off the backs off players in the revenue-producing sports (football and basketball), but the players don’t get a share.
On the other hand, making money is not supposed to be what the athletes are there for. Sure, some of the more talented ones see college sports as a training way station on the road to a career as a professional athlete, but these are still schools, not minor leagues. Students are there to get an education that’s being paid for by the school in exchange for their athletic talents.
Of course, a stipend of even just a few thousand wouldn’t be the same as a salary, the argument goes. It would just help student-athletes make ends meet.
But as Brand noted, the idea that student-athletes can’t afford to “buy a pizza or you can’t buy a winter coat, it’s just false.”
We all know what’s going to happen if you pay them a lump-sum stipend to spend as they see fit. While some kids will use it the way it’s intended, others will spend it on fancier wheels or jewelry or even something illegal. And maybe get themselves and the program in trouble. Heck, you give ‘em a championship ring and some of them turn around and sell them on eBay.
I’m all for making sure a full-ride scholarship really covers a full ride. Just not in a BMW!
What do you think?
BULLDOG BITES: Wow, Perno’s Pooches really turned things around in the past week. After losing two of three to Tennessee and then another to Western Carolina (a team they’d whomped earlier in the season), they upset the nationally ranked Insects from North Avenue and then went down to Gainesville and swept the Gators! Georgia, ranked 25th in the latest USA Today/ESPN coaches poll, is back home at Foley Field this weekend for three games against the division co-leader Gamecocks — 7 p.m. Friday, 4:06 p.m. Saturday and 1 p.m. Sunday. Admission is free for UGA students, and it sure would be great to see a packed house. So far this season, the Dogs have been a lot stronger on the road in the SEC than at home. This is a good time to change that… . I know Georgia fans’ thoughts and prayers are with ace water girl (and head coach’s wife) Katharyn Richt after her recent surgery for cervical cancer. The prognosis is for full recovery, the coach says. Hope to see her on the sideline again come September!
Comments
By northwestDawg
May 3, 2006 06:29 PM | Link to this
SWEPT THE REPTILES!!!! Sweet Music to my ears! But what I want to see is Georgia become a baseball powerhouse that is a regular visitor to Omaha!!! If our school wants to be known in a positive way we should not only be a FB. powerhouse but B-Ball and Baseball as well. I know we made the World Series once and that I think was a 2 and gone deal. Have we gone again? If not it’s time for Perno to take the steps needed to get us there. Better recruiting, coaching, I don’t know. I’m not an expert but lets do it.
By Ft Worth Dawg
May 3, 2006 06:53 PM | Link to this
Does this mean we should pay Tech athletes to stop playing? Does this mean that UT athletes will be getting a pay cut? I don’t think we should pay Mike Adams. I like our local minor league baseball tradition - a bucket is passed every time a homerun is hit. Let’s do the same for college sports. Also, I think the rule against getting a reward after your eligibility is used up is dumb - at least put a cap on it.
Katharyn - prayin’ for ya! God bless!
By desertdawg
May 3, 2006 07:40 PM | Link to this
NW, we won the Natl Championship in baseball a few years back and went 2 or 3 years ago with a little success—I think we beat Az 2 out of 3 but then went to the losers bracket. The Dawgs alwasy field a very good bb team as do most SEC schools.
By War Eagle
May 3, 2006 09:28 PM | Link to this
There sre alumni who cherish the though of having a picture on his office wall of a successful athlete who could have been All American or All SEC,. or maybe just scored winning TD against Bammer.It brings opportunity to several people, first this athlete is getting a good job and will move up the ranks quick. There is the average player who meets prominent people during his tenure…a good job waits him. This is not a trend with all college athletes, but a majority. They call it connections. Does this overcome the “paying the athlete” for their services? I think athletes should be compensated, look at UGA profit and other SEC schools.Why not help with clothes, shoes etc.? If they abuse the privilege, let them walk.
By geechee
May 3, 2006 09:34 PM | Link to this
Great column Bill,I think you are quite right. They should not have to pay for anything school related if they are on a “scholarship”. They should also not have to go without things other everyday students don’t have to go withoutbutthey should not be paid. The Diamond Dogs do appear to be peaking at just the right time so we can only hope that can carry them deep into the playoffs.
By pdawg
May 4, 2006 01:02 AM | Link to this
Considering the fact that not all these guys get drafted or end up in the pros. i think they should be paid. The pay should be adjusted annually to match the profit the program made. It is an injustice for them to go without things they need
By AltamahaDawg
May 4, 2006 07:27 AM | Link to this
pdawg, I’m not sure why them getting drafted means we should pay them. If anything it should be the other way around, which it pretty much is. And how would that be fair if the UGA football players got paid more than the vandy players? Or its own BB players for that matter. Tied to profits? Uh uh. The system just needs to figure out the real cost of college and adjust. How does an athelete deserve money for cloths over the med student? War Eagle is exactly right, pros or not and most not,that opportunity brings many rewards later in life. I’m pretty sure those kids have parents that would be footing the bill for that stuff if those kids weren’t playing. And the ones that couldn’t, are no worse off. Scholarships are not forced upon anyone. You do not have to go to college. You do not have to play sports. And if you want to go to college and playing sports gives you that opportunity, tell me how the university owes an apology or stipend for that.
By GW
May 4, 2006 08:28 AM | Link to this
My kid is going to UGA with very little spending $$$$ but he can work a part time job. If an athlete had the time to work it would come under suspicion. I don’t think scholarship athletes are suffering or wearing rags.
By gdawginkalamazoo
May 4, 2006 08:35 AM | Link to this
Ft Worth, Does this mean we should pay Tech athletes to stop playing? Does this mean that UT athletes will be getting a pay cut? I don’t think we should pay Mike Adams LMAO. Hilarious. Bill, couldn’t agree more with you. The scholarship should cover everything that would be fair for all the athletes. How decide value to the volleyball teams and gymnastics, etc.? War Eagle is correct, a lot of these kids have great job opportunities waiting them if they keep their heads on straight and take advantage of them. Stipends, no way. The football players used to cross the parking lot from Butts-Mehre to the McWhorter hall and they received plenty of cash filled handshakes if they had a good game.
By northwestDawg
May 4, 2006 11:40 AM | Link to this
desertDawg, didn’t remember we won a NC. in baseball. Thanks for the correction. Do you have the year? Hope geechee’s right and we are peeking at the right time,but whatever ever happens to hear that sweet tune of WE SWEPT THE REPTILES is so pleasing and “Makes MY Day”.
By AltamahaDawg
May 4, 2006 12:12 PM | Link to this
1990, and that is 7 in a row down at Gainsvile, and 8 of 10 lately. So now give ol gator snot boy the 8 out of 10 answer, no matter what he says. Oh that also makes him gay of cource.
By AltamahaDawg
May 4, 2006 12:20 PM | Link to this
Should the 2005 player have received more stipend than the 2003 players? Since when is making plenty money off of a program unfair to the participants? My son playing football gets cash because the University make millions “off his back”, but my daughter gets a bill sent home to cover the expences of the equestrian team?
By Jan Kemp
May 4, 2006 02:20 PM | Link to this
As if you pieces of sh* do’nt already pay yor players…..I seem to recall Othug Thurman being arrested in a Cadillac Escalade…..Enough said…..
By geechee
May 4, 2006 03:20 PM | Link to this
Gator,I sort of like your new name better. Jan is more fitting for you.
By geechee
May 4, 2006 03:28 PM | Link to this
One thing everyone has to remember is that these athletes are paid back with a college diploma. How much is that worth? If they choose to not earn it, that is their own problem but they don’t have to pay for it except, with sweat and sacrifice. It has been a while since I was in school. Some of you have at least one kid in school in Athens these days don’t you. How much is that costing these days?
By gdawginkalamazoo
May 4, 2006 03:32 PM | Link to this
AltaDawg, 1990 IF memory serves me correctly, Tech either started that year out at #1 or was ranked #1 at some point during the year. That’s why I have no problem remembering that title.
By gdawginkalamazoo
May 4, 2006 03:42 PM | Link to this
Hey LURCH, I mean Jan Kemp go away already.
By AltamahaDawg
May 4, 2006 04:57 PM | Link to this
huge underdogs to okieState, . That was a one game championship back then. Freshman Payne did us proud. I remember exactly where I watched it.
By War Eagle
May 4, 2006 08:50 PM | Link to this
As it stands today, Auburn has won 3 NCAA titles compared to how many at UGA, I honestly dont know, but I dont think is is more than three?
By gdawginkalamazoo
May 5, 2006 07:43 AM | Link to this
NCAA titles in which sport?
By clark
May 5, 2006 09:14 AM | Link to this
I’ve had a couple of classes with members of the football squad. Nice guys but not very impressed with their mental prowess. One of them sat next to me working all class on the R&B crossword puzzle. He left it on his desk and I picked it up to read it on the way out of class. He had 3 or 4 words filled-in. 4 words per class is pretty pathetic. Obviously not here for the education. I wouldn’t be concerned, there’s always a beer or Coke route waiting for them out there.
By Spanky
May 5, 2006 09:38 AM | Link to this
Clark, do you have any idea how much Coke is paying their drivers?
By crs
May 5, 2006 11:53 AM | Link to this
Am not in favor of any additional perks or stipends for athletes. They get a free education not to mention the opportunity to meet many influential people and are given access to many perks the average student will never have access to. I am tired of athletes and others b*** and moaning about the profits not being filtered down to the kids, give me a break. I am not a huge fan of the NCAA but on this issue they have it right now, go focus on gettig a playoff in 1A.
By Jan Kemp
May 5, 2006 01:27 PM | Link to this
No Spanky…..Tell us, How much does coke pay you for driving that truck ?
By gdawginkalamazoo
May 5, 2006 01:33 PM | Link to this
The scariest thing about Jan Kemp is her adams apple.
By godawg
May 5, 2006 02:35 PM | Link to this
Just saw this on edsbs.com
“According to the venerable Anderson Independent-Mail:
…On to college football, where the Clemson coaching staff is perturbed about an alleged last-minute recruiting heist Florida tried to pull with CJ Spiller, who signed with the Tigers anyway.
As the story goes, Florida sent one of its top players on a lengthy drive to see Spiller and keep him busy on the eve of signing day. If the story is true, Florida could be in for some trouble with the NCAA…”
If you read the blog comments it sounds as if Urban Cryer is gaining a reputation for slimy recruiting practices.
By clark
May 5, 2006 02:51 PM | Link to this
Don’t know, don’t care.
By Jan Kemp
May 5, 2006 03:42 PM | Link to this
Urban Meyer may be getting one…..But the noted hypocrite/Bobby Bowden protege CMR has long had one…..He’s Scum !!!
By godawg
May 5, 2006 04:00 PM | Link to this
Calm down Jan. We all know about your long history of mental illness and nervous breakdowns and we understand. Now take your meds and go back to sleep.
By Spanky
May 5, 2006 05:34 PM | Link to this
….more than the Waffle House pays you. Suck it!!
By Spanky
May 5, 2006 05:36 PM | Link to this
Jan Kemp,…this bird’s for you!
By BuLLdawg
May 6, 2006 05:33 AM | Link to this
.
“college athletics is literally making millions of dollars off the backs off players in the revenue-producing sports (football and basketball), but the players don’t get a share.”
.
????
.
Are you suggesting then that the players in the non-revenue producing sports pay to play ?
.
I think there might be better topics for you that you maybe do know something more about to discuss, if you don’t mind me saying so.
I think we could talk about those topics, if you don’t mind, as I just don’t get your thought that players in the revenue producing sports don’t get a share of the millions of dollars they produce, which I would think is then a statement that the players in the non-revenue producing sports should pay then. Right ?
We are in fact an Average Number 50 Offense and an Average Top 10 Defense. And, our Special Teams were good in only the 2002 season. Since you take my thoughts and make it then your next blog, try this, ok ? Maybe you know a little more about it than this topic that non-revenue producing student-athletes should pay to play.
.
By big lou
May 6, 2006 11:45 PM | Link to this
We use to get 10 dollars a week back in the 70s.They took it away for the ncaa thought it was unfair the big schools could afford it. I saw many ballplayers never leave the dorm on weekends for they did not have any nice clothes or a nickel to their name. Do not forget it was against the rules to have a job.Give the ballplayers a minimal stpend.
By clark
May 7, 2006 10:07 AM | Link to this
As an avid gambler, play-for-pay is a bad idea. Money corrupts. It’s hard enough to handicap college football. Adding an income factor to the process would add an unmeasurable factor. I’d like to see the return of the jock dorm. Free room and board, free education in exchange for playing a varsity sport seems to be a fair trade-off.
By reality check
May 7, 2006 12:23 PM | Link to this
The thing that is really disappointing about Jan Kemp is after all the money she got she didn’t use any of it to fix her hair.
By gdawginkalamazoo
May 8, 2006 11:28 AM | Link to this
I’d like to see the return of the jock dorm. Free room and board, free education in exchange for playing a varsity sport seems to be a fair trade-off. I would agree with that Clark. I think the stipend might cause them to “go out” and that would potentially lead to more toubles. As for handicapping players that get stipends, I would tend to think that the system and/or players already have a very high potential for changing the outcome of games.
By AltamahaDawg
May 8, 2006 01:32 PM | Link to this
I don’t think that messing up betting is on the short list of why not to pay stipends. I do think getting a college education paid for is a pretty fair trade-off. Does seem kinda unfair in a way as the average college kid gets the same thing, and just doesn’t do anything in return. Just curious as you why you would like to see the return of the Jock dorm?
By brad
May 8, 2006 01:52 PM | Link to this
A full scholarship should include room, board, tuition, books, and all associated fees. Considering the cost of a college education these days, this is a substantial payment to the college athlete. Many regular students finish their college carreers owing thirty to forty thousand dollars in student loans. I realize that many football players are only looking at going into the NFL and so undervalue the cost of their athletic scholarship, but that is their own shortsightedness.
By Bill King
May 8, 2006 08:12 PM | Link to this
BuLL: Failed reading comprehension, did you?
By AltamahaDawg
May 8, 2006 08:54 PM | Link to this
Bill, he asked you the same thing 3 times in that post, whats your problem? You need the Evelyn Woodhead sped reding cours. Your comprention wud emprov 100 purcent.
By Bill King
May 9, 2006 07:34 AM | Link to this
Ommmmmmm, ommmmm, ommmm
Excuse me, I’m meditating on trying to get that thought message from BuLL on what my next blog should be.
By viktor
May 9, 2006 01:20 PM | Link to this
When I think of the historical problems associated with off-campus housing and jocks, I think that self-contained, centralized housing might mitigate some of the behavior problems. I don’t think it would have prevented the Cole incident but it may have kept QC more in line. It’s one thing to stumble drunk into your own apartment and another to stumble past security at the jock dorm. The athletes are paid well with a shot at a great education and an opportunity to perform at the national level, their conduct should be exemplary and monitored, if necessary.
By AltamahaDawg
May 9, 2006 08:55 PM | Link to this
viktor, or your other alias in here, what behavior problems are you talking about? The few isolated ones. We are going to completely shut that down? I agree there are historical behavior issue with student athelete, as with a lot of teens, but I wouldn’t think those started with the end of forced centralized housing in 1991. I’m betting programs have adjusted to that by now.
And Mcwhorter Hall is still over half occupied by athelets. Those guys are heavily monitored , but its not prison. All scholarship athletic student must live on campus, EXCEPT with permission from their head coach, which is usually reserved for upper classmen in good standing. QC issue was a Donnan issue.
You certainly are not the first to suggest that coralling them all would be helpfull, I know a lot of coaches didnt like that idea, but again that was 15 yrs ago. I was on campus, and later years at postgame, back when that was the case, and trust me, those guys were no stangers to downtown back then. I think the difference then was just nobody made a big deal of it. ie. AJC headline on your laptop every morning.
The idea was to treat athelets more like students and less like pampered celebrities and also hold them to the same standards of student life. Special housing fostered a feelign of being above the rules. Or so said the NCAA. I think its a non-issue now.
Just an different viewpoint, please try to refrain from the personal attacks I’m sure you are dying to launch on me.
just a note, I think the “cole incident” was at Mcwhorter. (jock dorm)
By viktor
May 10, 2006 07:38 AM | Link to this
Personal attacks? I stop in here once in a blue moon and I get this? I don’t know who you are having a problem with but I just happen to believe that jock dorms and closely monitoring their inhabitants is a good idea. I remember well the QC issues that seemed to launch the the era of serious off-campus athlete antics. I also remember the days when McWhorter was full of jocks and it seemed that the problems were infrequent and less severe. And that was during the height of the drug culture years. An opinion based on a historical perspective and nothing to do with you personally, AltamahaDawg.
The one, the only, viktor.
By AltamahaDawg
May 10, 2006 11:49 AM | Link to this
I suppose the “viktor” that attacked me a few weeks back out of the blue and insulted my work ethics, was a different guy. Right.
I was there during the height of Mcwhorter and knew a few of those guys and I am saying it was the same, if not worse behavior, just wasnt national news. I will say that corraling those guys certainly gives the coaches and advantage of covering it up better. I would be interested in you directly tracing QC problems to any current issue with athelets in general. QC was also a good 10 years AFTER the housing change. Again, Donnan shouldn’t have allowed him to live off campus and had the ability to prevent all that.
By viktor
May 11, 2006 12:04 AM | Link to this
Don’t remember attacking your work ethic. Sorry but you must have deserved it.
So behavior was as bad or worse when jocks were housed in McWhorter but the coaches could control it better? Prove it.
By AltamahaDawg
May 11, 2006 08:45 AM | Link to this
How must I have deserved it?
By AltamahaDawg
May 11, 2006 08:53 AM | Link to this
I’ll post that proof right after your explaination how Quincy Carter caused a rash of behavior issue for players on campus 4 and 5 years later, and this is a direct result of a rule change about housing 10 year before we ever heard of him.
I can tell you stories of REAL players and real antics with some of Athens Finest standing and chuckling back in the day, but my opinion is that those stories are best kept in the fold. Which is my point. The only diffence between today and 15 years ago is that you hear more about less now. I also never remember as many wild fires before I got cable TV either.
By viktor
May 12, 2006 09:29 AM | Link to this
First, about your work ethic. Do you blog on the job? It seems that alot of your comments come during normal work hours. Or do you work the graveyard shift?
Second, I never said that QC “caused” bad behavior. However, he did behave badly, off campus, and was the subject of some pretty vicious rumors.
Third, thanks for making my point about jock dorms and damage control.
Fourth, I find it very convenient that the “proof” that you would offer to support your position about prior bad acts by UGA jocks must remain forever a secret. The old if I told you, I’d have to shoot you BS?
Please get a spell checker.
By AltamahaDawg
May 12, 2006 10:49 PM | Link to this
how are things in duluth?
By viktor
May 14, 2006 11:25 AM | Link to this
Altamaha, what? No response? See ya around.
By AltamahaDawg
May 14, 2006 04:15 PM | Link to this
viktor I was refering to your duluth logic, that came so far from disputing anything I said, I just assumed we were finished with that.
Ask Goldberg about the $1.50 pitchers of BPR at Odysey. Or Tardits. Or Sadowski about the front end of his old Monte Carlo. The facts that you dont hear about something doesnt prove it didn’t happen. Politician were far less corrupt before cable news too weren’t they? I know what I know, You theorize as you wish.
By AltamahaDawg
May 14, 2006 04:53 PM | Link to this
I can remember once a crowd of Football players rushing out of a bar one night (no longer there). We all thought it was some kind of a fight, but it was just that a player had used the front bumper of a jeep to push a car forward and “create” a parking space, getting the bumpers all locked up , requiring about 8 of them to lift it off the ground. Did I mention they were all at the bar? Its just neive to think that stuff didnt go on 15/20 yrs ago. Your argument seems to be based on the perception that you used to “hear less about it”. SO? Has the athletic department been reporting to you personally for the past 20 yrs the number and severity of players behavior issues? Or is it more liklely that the speeed of news these days and the focus on any slight story could be different.
I was talking once to the former owner of the old Holiday Inn in Madison, where Dooley used to take the team the night before a home game, simply to keep them out of downtown trouble. Why wouldnt they have just stayed in the inpenetrable fortress that is McWhorter? They used to trash the place, but nobody cared because back then, everyone just looked at the football players as special and above the rules a bit. That’s exactly why they stopped the preferential treatment.
FYI, spelling comment have long been pointed out in here as quite lame and pointless.