Ice Man

By Smitty

December 7, 2008 9:03 AM | Link to this

This question has been asked many times. When will the ASG wise up? Phillips is practically MT on game nights. The product on the ice is questionable even in the eyes of the most ardent supporters. When will ASG pull the plug on DW? No way should he be allowed to orchestrate a trade for Kovy. I still think it would be a bad move to trade Kovy. Every GM knows how desperate ATL is in getting on track at least to mediocrity. DW has had his 9 years. It is time to move on for pete’sake. How much more incompetent can this management group show itself to be. This is past ridiculus. ASG, you need to make a move!!!!

By mike

December 7, 2008 9:08 AM | Link to this

nothing going to help this team with current ownership situation. only one small move can save this team=firing general manager and hiring somebody who understand this game. but simple move for all other organization did not working for this one. ownership not going to able to hire good GM because good GM demand good money but they chip. so another DW. so these organization choosing incredibly wrong what nobody in pro sport around the world doing, instead of firing GM they firing players. so go ahead LEVENSON get rid of kovy good luck and good bye, keep GM to prolong his very succesfull run until team going to run out of city.

By Sage of Bluesland

December 7, 2008 9:19 AM | Link to this

Well stated Rawhide. What “has to” be done is finding a new GM.

It’s amazing through all of the drafts, he always “gets the player he wanted all along”—and look at our net result. Oh, and don’t forget how he blustered that we were ahead of Philadelphia’s rebuilding path just last year…

Umm, well, I’m talking about whatever year-plan we are in AFTER his initial disastrous “Five-Year Plan”.

Now, I know we are all waiting with excruciating impatience on Sara’s next spreadsheet—which will attempt to show that the lisping, bumbling excuse we have as a GM isn’t so bad…We’ll see a “mathematical” permutation which actually places him ‘better’ than half of the GMs in the league!

Until we look at the record book and the standings, that is. Unfortunately, though, reality is a…is a…a something else, ain’t it?

(The only thing left is another of the long-lost sheep to come along and proclaim—through his “analysis”—that Don hasn’t made a mistake yet! That was last-year’s winner; Sara’s “golden spreadsheet” is this year’s…and the fans in that figurative joke otherwise known as “Blueland” are always the loser…)

Thanks, Don.

By blurt

December 7, 2008 9:40 AM | Link to this

Long time Rangers fan here…Atl I sympathize with you…we have Glen Sather, the biggest fraud in the history of hockey…let’s hope a miracle occurs for both our organIzations….

By ThrashDawg

December 7, 2008 10:03 AM | Link to this

It looks like we are back to the old GM arguement. The one and only thing that we do not know, and will never know in all of these deals, is how much ownership and their lack of money or willingness to spend it has to play in any and all decisions that a Thrasher GM has to make. In all fairness, we would never have had Hossa if not having to trade Heatley, but the Savard and Coburn situations really hurt. I believe unless we are able to get the ASG group to sell the team to Arthur Blank or somebody like him that will keep the team in Atlanta, we have little hope of a solid consistent winner. So, where does that leave us? I have said all along that this should be the GMs last year unless we are a playoff team. It does not appear this will be the case, so I believe it is time for a change and it really does not matter if you like or dislike the GM. I don’t even care if they kick DW upstairs, like the Falcons did Rich McKay, and bring in another GM to manage the football day to day operations. The ASG have to make a change for public relations sake and they cannot fire themselves.

By BlueSpark

December 7, 2008 10:07 AM | Link to this

Agreed, Rawhide. The Thrashers would have been better off letting Hossa walk at the end of last season. A GM never has to trade someone; it’s just usually a better move than letting a guy walk. Usually.

By Sage of Bluesland

December 7, 2008 10:24 AM | Link to this

The owners spent max-cap for two years.

I would cut the funds back, too, if these funds were being frittered away by the incompetent Don Waddell.

The owners have ‘never’ refused a contract request from the lisping, blustering idiot.

Another excuse debunked. Try again.

By Stevo

December 7, 2008 10:52 AM | Link to this

Great article once again Rawhide. I’m on the same page with you are far as trading Kovy goes. I’ve been a fan of this team since they entered the league, I’m only 22. And I’ve supported this team (financially) for the last 5 or 6 years, including buying playoff tickets. On top of that, I have defended this team over and over again when people are bashing the players and coaches, and talking about relocating the team to someplace that will support them. if Don Waddell trades Ilya Kovalchuk then I will have a hard time supporting this hockey team.

I can only support and defend a losing team for so long. At some point, it’s better off to realize when you are just throwing money away for no reason, and to cut your losses. I wish the ASG would realize this with DW. Trading the face of the franchise is not the way to go. Kovy has said repeatedly that he wants to stay in Atlanta. This is the only team he has ever known, and I don’t think it would take much to convince him to stay. Trading him does not solve Atlanta’s problem, it only pushes “the future” further down the road.

By ranallo10 (in AT)

December 7, 2008 11:32 AM | Link to this

I would cut the funds back, too, if these funds were being frittered away by the incompetent Don Waddell.

If that’s your solution to a person who cannot wisely spend your money, then you’re just as bad as these owners. Why continue employing him if he can’t even spend the money you give him the way you want him to?

I would’ve fired him immediately had I seen that my money was not being spent wisely.

By Rawhide

December 7, 2008 11:46 AM | Link to this

Ah…what better way to spend a late-morning Sunday than watching a little futball…FC Bayern vs. Hoffenheim…the latter of which has been quite the story in the German Bundes Liga!

Anyway…for those who have mentioned the low shot total for the Thrashers last night here and on the previous blog…take it with a grain of salt. The scorekeeper on Turd Island tends to “pad” the home teams sots and “deflate” visitor’s. In fact, DE last night mentioned that Thorburn’s goal wasn’t even registered as a SOG.

Next time we play on the island, I’m gonna keep track of that stat myself and see if there is a great descrepancy.

blurt - Nice to have you chime in…but I have to say, given where the teams are and have been te last several years…I’d almost be willing to switch GM with ya.

ThrashDawg - I have no issue at all with the thought of “mcKay-ing” Waddell upstairs. In fact, if…IF…the Spirit Clowns every dod make a move, my guess is that is what they would do.

Stevo - if Don Waddell trades Ilya Kovalchuk then I will have a hard time supporting this hockey team.

I think that is still the majority opinion.

BlueSpark - I here ya…but id D-Dub had just let Hossa walk with nothing in return, there would have been a full-fleded revolt. It’s not that he made the trade in my eyes iven the situation…it’s what he did in regards to the trade.

By Nikita

December 7, 2008 11:49 AM | Link to this

Eh. I’m over this topic for now.

But, more thoughts on last night, and in general:

1. Man, the Islanders suck.

2. I think we tend to think disastrous thoughts about the team. But recall this…we became last by losing to Ottawa, which beat Pittsburgh last night. Detroit barely won against the Blackhawks. The top and the bottom aren’t that far apart.

3. The new combos are working, albeit not 100%. As I mentioned, Thorbs is kinda slow and not used to playing a full schedule. Luckily his hands are good and his sprinting speed is decent. It’ll take at least two weeks to bring him up to speed. Reasoner has been playing great. The only real change between the last few games and the Islanders game is that the third line was changed, and apparently Eric Perrin now plays on ALL the special teams. The resultant struggling was not unexpected.

4. It appears Toby Enstrom has hit his groove.

By Jason

December 7, 2008 12:04 PM | Link to this

Nice article Rawhide. You summed up the echoing sentiments of many of us here. What’s so damn frustrating is the team is arguably only two new top tier players(center and stud dman IMO) away from keeping Kovy happy and willing to stay longer and help this franchise succeed. But where do two stud players come from and how do you get them? The minors?, I would have to say no to that right now, FA?, Waddell hasn’t reeled in a big fish yet, the draft?, as Rawhide says, that may take too long, even if the right guys are chosen this time around, that’s the problems. We don’t have the quality depth we need to, field a solid roster right now, IMO, or trade for a few legitimate top tier players, other than Kovy. So trading him still forces us to take a few steps back, even with great return, because it probably would be young players and draft picks they get for him.

But like most on this site, I don’t have ANY confidence left Waddell can get it done right. Until Waddell is moved and a proven GM is brought in, I fear this team is doomed to mediocrity, at best.

By dawgsfan

December 7, 2008 12:42 PM | Link to this

I believe I called a 5-2 thrashers win. I know, I know off by 1. THRASH ‘EM!

By polskidawg

December 7, 2008 2:54 PM | Link to this

RH - well stated.

I hope you don’t mind me suggestion folks check out another blog, for a moment.

Holly Gunning at Thrashers Prospects Annex (http://thrashersprospectsannex.blogspot.com) has a interesting blog that rejects the notion that DW has had his hands tied, thus not enabling him to create a consistent, winning organization.

By sisu

December 7, 2008 2:54 PM | Link to this

I am a little bit confused how everyone only talks about Waddell? The ownership loves the Hawks and Basketball. The hockey was just a extra thrown in the deal when they purchased the team. The best thing to happen for the team would be that the current ownership loses in February and we get a guy who will actually acknowledge the fact that there is a hockey team here.

As to Savard, how quickly everyone forgets why he was not resigned. Rumors were that he did not want to be here for personal reasons. More likely the biting of fingers, taking bad penalties late in the game was the reason why he walked…

Last night showed that the team has a possibility to play with grit! The biggest issue of late is lack of goal tending. Moose played much better last night so maybe he can continue that?

By roh

December 7, 2008 4:08 PM | Link to this

If I’m not mistaken (and I’m pretty sure I’m not), most everyone was so happy with DW before the season started. He’d got us some younger, faster, fresh players, a great new coaching staff…things were looking good. A few counter-points for your arguments…

1. Dupuis went b/c you’ll recall Waddell said they wanted Dupuis or Perrin, and at the time, Perrin was playing great for us. Dupuis was the no brainer choice there.

2. Nothing DW could have done would have kept Hossa here. I’m sure there were other offers on the table, he obviously chose the one he thought best. Now, EC is “injured” and has been since the end of last season. We’ve yet to see how good Esposito or Leville will work out. When you trade away for picks and prospects you can’t compare their production to trading away an all star.

3. Everything else aside, had Hossa stayed, he would not have produced the numbers he has in Pitts or Det. Have you already forgotten how poor his play was prior to his departure? The never-ending talks of Hossa “dogging” it? Whether he was or not, doesn’t matter. He was willing to sit around and not do anything but complain every chance he got about the team not winning.

Look I’m with you, I don’t want to see Kovy gone. He’s the last glimmer of hope we have, I think. We need to do whatever we can to keep him.

I think the players get the Anderson system. Hell we’ve seen it work several nights. When it works, it WORKS. I don’t understand why they can put 5 great games together and make everything fall in to place. Then take the next 2 weeks off? Do they think 5 in a row is enough? We’ve seen the team work, its up to the coaches and the players to figure out how to make it work all the time. Not just for a period or two here and there. Making MORE changes to the roster means starting over again with learning the system and creating chemistry.

Lastly, I enjoy your columns, but I CAN’T STAND reading “Organ-I-zation” are you really THAT red neck?

By Rawhide

December 7, 2008 4:55 PM | Link to this

roh - If that was your first post on this blog, well done…and welcome.

Yes, you are coorect that a lot of people were very happy with the moves made by DW last summer…myself included. However, Hainsey, Williams, Reasoner, etc. … there were FA signings. What I am discussing are the “trades” that DW has made and using them as my argument as to one of the reasons I do not want him trading Kovy.

Obviously another reason is because I like Kovy and want him to remain.

As for your comments about Hossa, again you are spot on about DW having no chance at re-signing him. But you have to ask yourself WHY wouldn’t he re-sign here? It is because, IMHO, he was convinced this place was not a place to be to compete for a cup. This is laid directly at the feet of DW, (and yes the ownership, too), due in part to the deals I mentioned above.

I think a great number of the players “get” JA system as well. I’ve always thought the true measure of success for this club is how they are playing in Feb. and March vs. how they played in Oct. and Nov. Time will tell.

Lastly, as for “organ-I-zation”…it’s hardly “redneck”. It’s how they pronounce it in Canada. I’m just following their lead on that. It’s just a “schtick”, my friend.

Anyway…I appreciate you points and counter-arguments and I totally share your hope that Kovy remains a Thrasher for years to come. I also hope that you join the discussion more often.

sisu - People talk about DW because he has been the one consistant throughout the organ-I-zation’s…er, excuse me…organization’s history. You are very correct though that ownership has earned much of the blame here as well. That they failed to make a move in the GM office after last season proves they either a). don’t have clue what they are dealing with in regards to hockey or b). lack the desire to actually do what is necessary to make a change.

I agree with you regarding the possible outcome of the court case.

Moose looked great last night…28 saves on 29 SOG, very good and just what the team needed.

polskidawg - You are always welcome to reference Holly Gunning’s fine web-site! She is fantastic!

By five_hole

December 7, 2008 5:21 PM | Link to this

Saw this on CNN/SI.com: Waddell is shopping Kovalchuk

My guess is we’ll get a collection of has-beens, almost-were’s and a couple of draft picks.

By Sage of Bluesland

December 7, 2008 6:20 PM | Link to this

“…My guess is we’ll get a collection of has-beens, almost-were’s and a couple of draft picks.”

Yep. Maybe Donny will get us some “magic beans” as well?

Stop making excuses for this joke of a GM—and stop subsidizing the incompetence of this organization…

By sisu

December 7, 2008 8:03 PM | Link to this

Ok, so say that there was a trade to be made…I think the minimal return for Kovy would have to be a top six forward and a top two dman in his prime and picks (at least one first rounder and minimum of two 2nd rounders). In other words, five players total for one. Not many teams would do this in my opinion, and if someone would then maybe LA could be a good place to shake up the two teams? It would have to be a Western team at least, no way to be idiotic and trade to the Eastern teams.

Now having said that I do not believe any deal should be made….

And one last thought on the ownership. Have you noticed the larger than life Hawks pictures hanging in the 316 to 320 sections? Any Thrasher pictures in the arena same size displayed??? I rest my case!

By sisu

December 7, 2008 8:19 PM | Link to this

five_hole, consider the source, Toronto…would not count on it too much.

By R. Stroz

December 7, 2008 9:19 PM | Link to this

If the ASG allows Dung Waddell to trade Kovy, the value of the franchise will drop 20 to 30 million dollars easily.

When the Hawks moved Nique, an entire generation of fans walked away.

When the Flames moved Lysiak, an entire generation of fans walked away and the franchise was sold to Calgary.

Kovy can’t be replaced. The owners only choice to preserve the value of the Thrasher franchise is to fire Waddell and bring in a new GM and green light the GM to make the moves required to keep Kovy in Atlanta.

Even a bunch of drunk trust fund owners can understand this, hopefully.

By Brendan

December 7, 2008 9:40 PM | Link to this

Rumors and hearsay are funny things, to say the least. “Media sources” are, perhaps, the weakest sources, next to bloggers (no offense to any of us, including me, your fellow blogger). Consider that John Kincaid and Mark Bradley have both written “Trade Kovalchuk” articles in the past 12 months. Does that make a Kovalchuk trade imminent? (No, it doesn’t. Chuckling.)

“Sources close to the team” making the claim are a bit more dangerous. That could be an assist GM, the actual GM, a coach, an assistant coach, an equipment manager, or a scout. Even an owner or two. I haven’t heard that yet.

That Toronto Sun articles cites, “NHL sources.” Well, permit me to explain what that might mean. Say, you’re a GM somewhere in the league. Things aren’t going so well, or as well as you’d liked. You go looking for someone who has a ‘problematic’ situation, (Think Hossa last year, Gaborik in Minnesota, Filppula in Detroit, last year, or even Ilya for Atlanta.) Still with me?

Okay … that GM calls Waddell. What do you think he inquires about? Let me help you. “Say Don, I don’t know what your plans are with Ilya. Or how well discussions (not contract negotiations, mind you. That CANNOT take place until July 1, 2009) are going with Jay Grossman (Kovy’s agent). But, if you ‘think’ you may have trouble re-signing him, we’re prepared to make you an offer, if you’re willing to listen to it.” Waddell says, “Continue … I’m listening.” Now, in that instance, did Waddell iniate the call? Answer: “No, he didn’t.” Did Waddell ‘hang up’ on the other GM? Answer: “No, he didn’t.

If a second GM calls Don to entertain similar discussions regarding Kovalchuk, and if Waddell behaves the same way, you now know how the sentence “NHL Sources say Waddell is ‘shopping’ Kovalchuk” might appear in print. Does it mean anything? Answer: “No, not really.” What it means is … that GM’s around the league see the situation and are scoping it out. Waddell shouldn’t hang up on them. He should hear what’s being offered, then politely decline. Unless it’s really, truly a king’s randsom. And that won’t happen. And you KNOW that.

By Brendan

December 7, 2008 10:12 PM | Link to this

Excellent blog, Rawhide. Sage of Bluesland and R.Stroz said it best. What has to happen to keep Kovalchuk … is for the organization to remove Waddell as GM, as well as ANY and ALL matters of decision-making. That’s Step #1 toward retaining Kovalchuk. Twice now, Kovalchuk has made the quote, “I’m not the GM this year.” While that could be a language barrier, I’m less and less inclined to be believe that. And I’m more inclined to believe that Kovalchuk thinks Waddell’s time as GM here in Atlanta is limited. I hope he’s right.

While people can claim that no other GM would have done any better, the truth is … we’ll never KNOW that until another GM gets an opportunity to TRY.

Something ELSE piqued my attention. It’s the word, “happy.” While some people view the theory of relativity to mean E=mc2. I have a different view. Everything is “relative.”

Suppose rebels capture a city and begin ‘ethnically cleaning’ the population by firing squad. But, then, they run out of bullets. The ‘leftovers’ are then herded into a concentration camp until the next shipments of bullets arrive. In that case, the survivors might be said to be ‘happy’ about being a leftover. The point being??

Well, “happiness” is a relative term. I felt Don Waddell didn’t absolutely ruin the team during the offseason. It was, arguably, his BEST offseason. But it’s not as if he UNSCREWED the previous eight seasons, either. So, I was ‘pleased’ that Don didn’t make things worse. I don’t really think Williams or Reasoner were the Tier I center that Kovy needed. Neither do I think Ron Hainsey is a Tier I defenseman. Addressing a top Tiered blueliner and Center were what the ownership and Waddell discussed at their Town Hall Meeting.

By roh

December 7, 2008 11:54 PM | Link to this

I have been reading for a long time,but am not sure if I have posted any comments before. Really? Canadians say “organ-I-zation”? It sounds backwoods GA in my mind when I read it!

Did you see Puckdaddy picked up on your post? He’s now waiting for DW to blow the trade, too!

By Jon

December 8, 2008 6:33 AM | Link to this

Sorry, just read this blog, and I agree with both sides, the franchise HAS to rebuild, and Waddell’s HAS to go. The franchise has been muck ever since the day of acquiring Tkachoke and Zhitnik (but with an S! see its clever!). I see destinations with most probability of acquiring Kovy being SJ, Montreal, and Dallas. Yes i said Dallas. They have some great prospects that a package can be made around. You can see Minnesota too, possibly Gaborik coming back? If not Mikko Koivu’s a great topline center which this team DESPERATLEY needs. Bryan Little is NOT a first line center yet. Hes more a third liner. Minnesota has an AMAZING goaltender in Josh Harding, definatley something the Thrashers need. SJ? I can easily see this being the best place to go. A package around Cheechoo-choo and Michalek possibly? Waddell has a strong chip in Kovy and can bring back a great haul of players.

Now the Waddell’s gone part? Easily understood. But name a GM whos willing to come into this situation? I dont know of any to be fair. Maybe (And although i love the style and grit Anderson brings) axe Andy and hire someone whos willing to be the GM/Coach? I dont know if the NHL will allow it, im not familiar with front offices. How about Torts (Torterella) and Jay Feaster from TB Days? They won a cup together, and the franchise had a great core group in LeCav/St Louis/Richards (Pre trade mind you). As far as i know, theyre availible? I dont know if Torts and Feast had any sort of tenacity towards each other (again, my knowledge of front office powers is limited) but what about it? It doesnt hurt. Andersons grit will be missed, but i dont think his style of play cuts it in the NHL. Atlanta needs a guy whos proven he can win, and can light a fire under their asses cause they need something and they need something quick. Or else they’ll become the Pittsburgh Pirates of the NHL.

By jerry

December 8, 2008 6:41 AM | Link to this

On the Islander win. Is that what it was all along-just a lack of effort? It really didn’t have anything to do with a bunch of lousy players? Geez.

By Thefan

December 8, 2008 7:29 AM | Link to this

I think it is time to boycot thrashers games.I think that would send a message to the owner to get rid of DW.He is destryoing this team.Trading the best players that thrashers ever had come on .

By Tom

December 8, 2008 7:32 AM | Link to this

TheFan

Been boycotting the home games for 2 years now, along with many others. Thrashers games are starting to look like Hawks games.

By Whiny Fan

December 8, 2008 7:56 AM | Link to this

Hey Tom,

Hate to break it to you (and “along with many others”), but about 2500 more fans are coming to Hawks games than Thrashers. The whole “starting to look like” train left a long time ago.

By Toby

December 8, 2008 8:13 AM | Link to this

RH I agree that DW is not the guy for the trade, but I think the point of us “Trade Kovy NOW” folks is that we made a mistake waiting until the last second to trade Hoss at the deadline. I think DW should of been fired years ago, but he’s still here and probably not going anywhere as long as this ownership mess trudges on.

Therefore….I say pull the trigger on the best package now while the stock is still high.

By Thefan

December 8, 2008 8:42 AM | Link to this

I really support this team but i had enough with menagement .

By Rawhide

December 8, 2008 9:02 AM | Link to this

roh - Really? Canadians say ?organ-I-zation?? It sounds backwoods GA in my mind when I read it!

Yes…and I speak fluent Canadian, so just take my word for it!

Jon - Now the Waddell?s gone part? Easily understood. But name a GM whos willing to come into this situation?

I could probably name you 29 Asst. GM that would love a crack at taking over this, or any, team as the head guy.

Also, there is Wolves GM Kevin Cheveldayoff…he and JA seemed to work well together and I’d bet he would want a crack at it.

Pat Quinn is also a name that I have heard who wouldn’t mind coming here.

Anyway…would any of the above be a “sure fire bet” to succeed? No…there is no such animal. But the “possibility” of their success trumps the “proven record” of un-success with DW, IMHO.

Toby - I understand your point…however I will simply state again that even if I were to believe trading him NOW was the right answer…I firmly do not believe DW would get the highest yeild for him. It’s not the concept I have a major issue with…it is the proven track record of such tranaction around here.

I think we all agree as well that the BEST scenario is to keep Kovy and build a successful team around him. However, the only way I think he agrees to stay to if he believes the team is seriously dedicated and committed to winning.

And that won’t happen, IMHO, if there is no change made in regards to the GM here.

By Get The Puck Out

December 8, 2008 9:03 AM | Link to this

No way should Kovy be traded. If you trade him there will be no tier one players left. Now how much are we under the cap? If the owners can’t afford to put a competitive team on the ice what’s the point? As it is the Thrashers are just trying to stay out of the cellar and the seats are empty at Phillips. As in any business it takes money to make money and if your product is subpar to what others are putting out your business won’t last long. They are going to have to spend to improve there product or get involved in some trade, other than their top players or waive and try to improve. Also effort goes a long way as was shown in their last game. Now on to the general manager position. DW has had ample time to make improvements to this team and they have not responded. Look what happened to Hartley. It all goes back to ASG and if they are content with the way things are going there isn’t much we can do about it but believe me, as a business owner if my company was run as this one is i’d probably be filing for chapter eleven real soon. Only time will tell. I’m still going to root for the Thrashers, but i’m also going to root for a change from the top down. GO THRASHERS.

By Bob

December 8, 2008 9:55 AM | Link to this

So I ask you…exactly what is it in the history of Don Waddell’s dealings that makes anyone believe that he is capable of bringing in the highest yield in exchange for Ilya Kovalchuk?

Very good point. And reason #298 why Waddell has to go, sooner rather than later.

Holly Gunning at Thrashers Prospects Annex (http://thrashersprospectsannex.blogspot.com) has a interesting blog that rejects the notion that DW has had his hands tied, thus not enabling him to create a consistent, winning organization

I don’t see the blog on her site, but most agree that Waddell is the main problem, not the owners (although they both stink, it’s just that Waddell is completely incompetent).

By AGLitt

December 8, 2008 10:24 AM | Link to this

Nice article. I am a life time Flyers fan and have to say coburn isn’t immune to mistakes but was an instant upgrade from zhitnik. the end of last season and last years playoffs he seemed to score big goals in the clutch and played lights out on D. Remember, Flyers went from last to the conference finals. New GM and a series of moves to land the right kind of people.
My advice, get a new GM and let him set the tone of his era by trading Kovalchuk as the first order of business.

By Alan

December 8, 2008 10:42 AM | Link to this

Remember, Flyers went from last to the conference finals. New GM and a series of moves to land the right kind of people.

This caught my attention, because it’s something Waddell alluded to last year. However, he forgot one little thing…

New GM

Bingo.

We can argue all day and all night long which one - ownership or GM - is the worst of our problems here. Personally, I feel both are bad. But it all comes down to one thing:

Which one is easier to replace?

I don’t think I need to answer this question. Everyone here and throughout the league should know the answer.

By Rawhide

December 8, 2008 10:55 AM | Link to this

AGLitt - Thanks for the input…and welcome.

Alan - Of course the GM is easier to replace. And here is the kicker…by doing so the ownership would instantly be “better” than they are now because they will have not only recognized the place that needs changing the most…but they would be showing the fans in Atlanta and the rest of the NHL that they have the testicular fortitude to make the much-need change.

By Bob

December 8, 2008 11:01 AM | Link to this

by doing so the ownership would instantly be “better” than they are now because they will have not only recognized the place that needs changing the most…but they would be showing the fans in Atlanta and the rest of the NHL that they have the testicular fortitude to make the much-need change

B. I. N. G. O.

By tddf30

December 8, 2008 11:31 AM | Link to this

I say all the talk of trading Kovy is completely unwarranted.

The reason why the team is cellar dwelling isn’t because of lack of talent, it is a lack of “ability” to play consistently for 60 minutes. It seems to me on a regular basis the team seems to either take a break from playing hard for a period, or they consistently give up goals in the first or last 5 minutes of the game. This seems to be the biggest problem to me, considering that many times we go from being on the verge of at least forcing OT and have a mishap in the last 5 minutes and come away with a regulation loss. I believe that in 3 of the loses the teams were tied with less than 4 minutes left and all of them ended with the Thrashers losing before time was up, as well as 2 or 3 other games that have been tied and lost with goals given up with around 8 minutes left. If they could even get some OT losses we wouldn’t be talking about trading Kovy, I mean if you look closely at the standing, the Thrashers are only out of the playoffs by 8 points with some OT losses we are talking about a competing for the playoffs. Not to mention Kovy has been in some what of a goal scoring slump, if he can start scoring like the Kovy we all love to watch, the team would have two pretty potent scoring lines.

Now I am not backing DW cause i have been off that train since Savard walked, but I have to say that I like Hainsey and I like that he brought in the hard nosed Army in the trade for Hossa, and overall I really like our second line and technically we have to thank DW for that. This second line is something that we didn’t have last year; Little, White and Kozlov IMO, are doing a heck of a job of keeping us in many games.

I believe that if the Thrashers can play consistently we could be talking about a playoff team at the end of the year, but playoffs or not I think that we should fire DW, and the ASG has to go, the owners and GM have wasted way too much of my time.

By The Perfect Christmas Gift

December 8, 2008 11:44 AM | Link to this

A Pink Slip for Don Waddell

By Scotty

December 8, 2008 11:59 AM | Link to this

but they would be showing the fans in Atlanta and the rest of the NHL that they have the testicular fortitude to make the much-need change.

Right on, RH! The ASG morons either don’t have the brains or the balls to fire him. Quite frankly, I think it’s more the lack of C.O. Jones than brains.

By Jim

December 8, 2008 11:59 AM | Link to this

The reason that Hossa wanted out and Savard bolted as soon as he could is that Donnie Boy hasn’t assembled a competitive enough team in his 8 years to entice quality players to either stay on or to join us. If he stays, then trade Kovy now because while he hasn’t been outspoken, I guess that he has the some feelings that Hossa had. Why bust your A— for a team that has no hope of going anywhere in the league or in the playoffs. The next to go will be Lehtonen who is on a one year deal and would be attractive to teams like the Ducks or Red Wings. We’ll have a chance to reshape the team and the culture only when the Spirit ownership recognizes that Don’s 5 year plan has been a miserable failure. It would have been interesting to see Don under there with the 3 CEOs of the big auto makes trying to defend failed strategies.

By Jethro

December 8, 2008 12:03 PM | Link to this

If tha Thrashers fire that lispin duck ofa GM, it gotta job fur hem.

Ya see with all these subdisions that arr nuthin but mud pits cause the buildurs went belly-up, I need sumbody ta clean my tirurs on the four wheeler. Tha way I figure it the lispin duck can get sum mud back in his face aftur all the durt hes been feedun us fur years.

By Alan

December 8, 2008 12:37 PM | Link to this

A top tier center for Kovalchuk?

By Brendan

December 8, 2008 12:55 PM | Link to this

Well, the Thrashers certainly have the cap room to go sign that Russia. Nice find, Alan. All Ilya wants for Christmas is a Tier I Center. I think the GM should consult Kovy for his input on this player.

By Alan

December 8, 2008 12:57 PM | Link to this

.. Oh, and another thing. According to Bob McKenzie on NHL Live, Radim Vrbata (TBL) is on waivers. Not that we should make a move for him or anything, but there you go.

By polskidawg

December 8, 2008 1:02 PM | Link to this

Bob - let’s see if this works - Gunning article

By zack

December 8, 2008 1:22 PM | Link to this

Holy Hell, if ever an article has hit the nail on the head more I’d love to read it! FIRE DON WADDELL!!! I agree 100% with everything written here.

By Brendan

December 8, 2008 1:29 PM | Link to this

Jim, I’m afraid that the Atlanta market is simply going to be known as a Top NHL prospect’s 1st stop on the NHL train. As in, “Well, the first thing you have to do … is put in your three years in Atlanta. Then, you either re-sign in Atlanta as an RFA, for as long as you want, or you wait for RFA offersheets to come in. Absent that, there’s always Europe.”

Grrrreat. That’s about the size of it, however. We’re the league’s “farm” team. Until we get new ownership. Or, until such time as our ownership comes out of hibernation. Or its stupor.

Ya know something, folks. I’m really torn between which one of these situations most closely resembles reality. (1) The AS, LLC really is stupid, and is fully being hoodwinked, bamboozled, flimflammed, and hornswaggled by Waddell, whom they consider to be a cousin to Scotty Bowman. Or, (2) they know exactly what they’re doing, and they don’t CARE; they’re just involved in the hockey side of operations for “re-sale” purposes. Buy low. Sell high. Keep inventory low. Sell when the team is chock full of Lottery Draft prospects. 2011, anyone??

By kracker

December 8, 2008 2:12 PM | Link to this

Well put, RH. Quite the delima we are in. Looks to me (an optimistic fan) that being on pace for 66 points this season after the 76 of last season is definitely “moving in the direction” of having to trade Kovy. As much as the Thrashers are his team, it’s difficult to imagine him agreeing to resign to play on a last place team run by this GM for this fractured ownership group.

Kovy’s agent said about a year ago, in so many words, that the team had to improve for Kovy to resign. Or even for im to consider it, I believe.

All is not lost, yet, but soon the hole on this season’s ship will be too big to plug. I suppose a fast-closing team that just misses the PO could be enough to hold Kovy’s interest into next season…but I’d feel much better by having the team actually gell in JA’s system and be winning more than they lose by the end of the month.

By Rogie

December 8, 2008 2:19 PM | Link to this

Comparing statistics of players doesn’t always clarify the picture. Hossa is a superstar goal scorer —- unless you are comparing him to another goal scorer ..i.e apples to apples, then the traders of the goal scorer always look schooled. Basically, it’s not about stats, it’s about winning. Nobody would be comparing stats if this team had started winning. Last year, one of our big problems was with our grit — lack of checking, battling in the corners for pucks and in front of the net. We beefed that up with Armstrong and Christensen…I don’t expect them to replace Hossa’s stats — the problem is that we have only one real offensive weapon now, Kovy.

I understand the lack of confidence in Waddell in getting a good deal for Kovy. But I don’t see the angry mob getting their wish —- he’s not getting fired. ASG isn’t trying to run this franchise with the ultimate goal of having a winner. They are in the middle of a lawsuit and are more interested in what their lawyers and accountants are telling them to do with it in case of losing the case. Explain how Waddell ended up being coach almost all of last season? Don’t you think he could have found someone else with better credentials to have coached the team than himself? One of the assistants? Anderson himself? One of Anderson’s assistants in Chicago? Either management is stupid and tacitly blessed that or he was under directive not to take on a contract for another coach. Maybe both. So, what if they fire Waddell? Do you trust these guys to spend the money and replace him with someone more competent? No way. It doesn’t matter, in the meantime, the team’s record and Kovy’s trade value go in decline.

By Bob

December 8, 2008 2:39 PM | Link to this

Do you trust these guys to spend the money and replace him with someone more competent? No way

Think of it this way. Is it possible for them to go hire a replacement that is less competent? No way.

Thanks, Polskidawg, I see what she’s saying now. That Nashville’s GM has done more (much more) with less. She is absolutely correct. You can’t just sit back and say “we didn’t spend the money to compete”. First, it’s just not true, and second, the Blue Skirts proved for years that simply spending money does not equate to success.

By Scotty

December 8, 2008 3:20 PM | Link to this

I just saw this article about “The Year In Stupid” for 2008. What is it that makes me think that this time next year we could see as one of 2009’s “Year In Stupid” topics “Don Waddell trades Ilya Kovalchuk for…”.

By Russian

December 8, 2008 3:24 PM | Link to this

to Alan It will be interesting move by Don. Kovy were playing with Zinoviev in Kazan and also on World Champion in Canada. He is a good center. Only one problem he was playing in Russia and he needs to be comfortable here. It is not easy, but My Opinion let’s try ro bring him here for rest of season.

By ranallo10 (in AT)

December 8, 2008 3:27 PM | Link to this

A 5’10 180 lb centerman with topline playmaking abilities…

He was drafted by Boston in 2000…so his rights might still belong to them, if he were to come to the NHL.

I’m not a Vrbata fan, and I see him as a marginal improvement at best.

By Tony C.

December 8, 2008 4:47 PM | Link to this

Ummm.

Dude. Alan don’t tease me! Zinoviev is #17’s centRe!!! I don’t think that Boston has held onto his rights for 8 years, I cannot over-state how happy it would make me to get #17 a real centRe that can keep up w/him.

To have an opportunity to get a player he [Kovalchuk] is familiar with and has had great success with (see WC’s), is a stroke of fortune. We even have plenty of cap room to get a deal done.

If for some reason God smiles on us, and we were to get Zinoviev, then you could slot all our remaining players into roles that would be more to their style.

Of course, this is presupposing that Dw has been replaced by somebody with true accumen, foresight and chutzpah.

Y’all tell Santa we’ve been good boys and girls, we deserve a nice gift.

My $0.02 on the “who should replace DW”-I wouldn’t mind seeing Quinn get the nod. Or Nashville’s assistant GM, as he certainly knows a thing or two about maximizing production from a shoestring budget.

roh- I wouldn’t say I was “happy with DW” this summer, my personal opinion was more like “pleased he didn’t completely screw the pooch this time”. It’s a small, but critical difference.

By Brendan

December 8, 2008 5:12 PM | Link to this

Tony C., see my December 7, 2008 10:12 PM post about how “happy” I was with the offseason moves by Waddell.

By kracker

December 8, 2008 6:04 PM | Link to this

Just for fun…..for R Stroz et al

Facebook’s Fire Don Waddell group page

By WW5

December 8, 2008 6:50 PM | Link to this

kovy, letemin and waddell - 3 for the price of 2

By Tony

December 8, 2008 9:17 PM | Link to this

Kovy gets traded - crowd stays home period.

By Alan

December 8, 2008 10:11 PM | Link to this

Tony - How is that different from now?

By Brendan

December 8, 2008 11:21 PM | Link to this

Alan, the answer is … “length of recovery time.” In 1994, Major League Baseball cancelled a season and its playoffs. Some of those fans still haven’t come back. Others did, 4 years later. Is a “scar” just a scar? Are there scars of various length, depth, and severity? (Yes.)

That’s what I think Tony was referencing. Hockey fans in Atlanta expected Kovalchuk to be here for most, if not all, of his career. They hardly expected him to leave by 2009 or 2010, at the time he was drafted. (Does anyone think Zach Bogosian is gone by 2012? Or shortly thereafter.) I’m sure if you polled Thrasher fans in 2001, they’d have said they’d be “disappointed” if Kovy was gone as soon as he was eligible for UFA status. Back in 2001, who would have thought things would have gone this badly? We were building with lottery draft picks (1st overall, 1999, 2nd overall, 2000, 1st overall, 2001, 2nd overall, 2002, 8th overall, 2003, etc.) Raise your hand … if you thought, back in 2001, that in 2008 and 2009 that the Thrashers would still be building via the lottery draft and still seeking their very first-ever playoff win? That’s it … keep ‘em up. Way up high. Counting them carefully.

See, those people with their hands up in the air … are “doom and gloomers.” They live in the shadows. They never see the light. That’s all they know. Total depression. Total pessimism. Total darkness. And when bad things happen, it just encourages them to continue to see the Sky as Falling. In short, they embrace “misery.” They “like” it. Such people are probably quite happy today, as they get to claim they were right alllll along. But truthfully, there aren’t very many of them. Those folks were NEVER coming out to games.

Now, compare that to a “I’ve been a season ticket holder since Day One” type of fan. Is a “five game winning streak” really going to be enough to bring them back into the fold? (No. They can’t and won’t be fooled that easily.) That’s a fan/person who got heavily invested into the team, waiting patiently. But when logic walked out the door … and they realized the monitoring station was “unmanned” and that they were riding a “runaway train” … they hopped off. Who jumps onto runaway train?

Put a conductor back in charge and a responsible owner of the railway … and people might start riding the train again. Any Thomas, the Tank Engine fans out there? Well, “Sir Topham Hat” runs the Sodor Railway better than Don Waddell does the Thrashers.

By Montalban

December 9, 2008 2:49 AM | Link to this

Kovalchuk is gone.

The only way to win a deal for a proven talent in his prime like this is too gather up draft picks and essentially start the entry lottery process al over again.

To me, it’s not so much about what Waddell gets for Kovy, anyone can take the best offer as someone pointed out. Although, GM’s who try to get roster players in a deal like this generally lose (I laughed when I saw the Michalek and CHeeCHoo for Kovy idea. Wow what a step backward THAT would be). No, you need a management and scouting staff that can turn some high end picks into real talent, and a coaching staff with lots of NHL experience that can teach young players to be pros. If you looks at your equally crappy neighboors to the north in Toronto, they’ve got Ron Wilson behind the bench and think they have someone in Burke who can ‘build’ a team. Of course, that will fail.

It’s also not about wether Waddell has done a good or bad job, or had his hands tied by ownership or not, the fact is his results are absolutely terrible, and that means it’s time for a change no matter how good a guy he is.

Sucks, but the ship has sailed on Kovy and Waddell. Standing pat on the GM will mean Waddell stays and the fans go. Standing pat on Kovalchuk means Kovalchuk goes for nothing in one year.

By This Gets Old

December 9, 2008 4:54 AM | Link to this

It doesn’t matter what “we” think or want for Kovy. The bottom line and the realistic way to look at the situation is that he is in fact already gone. Would any of YOU stay in a hopeless situation? The man wants to win. Keeping him here is the worst thing for us and for him.

I haven’t been on this blog since the Hossa trade. Those of us who complained about DW were roasted. The man even had defenders after the disastrous meeting with the STH. The most insane thing is we’re not even to the point of rebuilding because they’re not even close to firing that idiot! Nearly a decade in and the franchise is in this state of disrepair?

By dhj_1962

December 9, 2008 6:23 AM | Link to this

its simple…do NOT trade Kovy. Fire dw, get rid of the players who don’t bring it every game.

By Nikita

December 9, 2008 8:45 AM | Link to this

After thinking about this subject a whole lot, I think we should NOT trade Kovy.

a. The team is still coalescing. Kovy included. Trading him would be premature.

b. Who cares right now if we can re-sign him at the end of 2009-2010? Right now we need to get the system down and make it work. You know, this year. Which is not over, and not even close to over.

c. He’s undervalued for his skill, which means it may not be worth it for us trade him at all. Meanwhile it’s not worth it for him to sandbag because it means he’ll never get paid what his skill should dictate.

d. I’m absolutely sick of hearing about how Kovy is the only decent player on the team. If that’s true, then we might as well fold the team now. Also, if that’s true, then why would we let Kovy go?

I think JA is making a case for picking up additonal pieces at the upper-to-midlevel, not trading existing pieces which are more or less working. I cannot imagine how moving Kovy now suits the agenda at all.

By dhj_1962

December 9, 2008 8:59 AM | Link to this

right on Nikita!!!

By ranallo10 (in AT)

December 9, 2008 9:34 AM | Link to this

I cannot imagine how moving Kovy now suits the agenda at all.

It doesn’t, and never has. It’s complete speculation from FANS and MEDIA that has lead to the discussion. Year in and year out, this topic comes up. Yet, year in and year out, we hear that Kovalchuk is content here, is not looking for a way out, and Waddell is not shopping him.

As Brendan says, Waddell has no intentions of ever trading Kovalchuk. I’d be willing to bet right now that unless Kovalchuk demands a trade, or expressly says something to the affect of “there’s absolutely no way I’ll resign with the Thrashers”, he will not be traded. Waddell will hold on to him until the very end…as would any GM.

Hossa was a completely different situation. Kovalchuk is the Thrashers. Trading him would amount to Waddell trading away his job for the “future” of the Thrashers. In my opinion, it’s not going to happen, especially now.

By Brendan

December 9, 2008 12:11 PM | Link to this

It’s not just a mistake to trade Kovalchuk, it’s a disastrous mistake. It’s virtually impossible to get equal value back. And Kovy’s departure will demoralize the fanbase. Want Thrasher goals to be drowned out by fans of the opposition? Then, by all means, trade Kovalchuk. Your Atlanta fans will disappear.

Stop for a minute, will ya? If ownership is driving the train, (a dubious claim, at best,) wouldn’t Waddell say, “Look fellas. I’ve done all I can for ya, but I’m gonna now pull a Jay Feaster and resign. I won’t be part of a Kovalchuk trade. Period, the end. So, don’t ask me. And neither will next GM. Adios. And good luck to you Spirit Boys.”

Don Waddell does NOT want to trade Kovalchuk. The thought hasn’t crossed his mind. It only crosses his mind when someone ASKS him about it. To which, he politely smiles, sugarcoats a “declination” response, while thinking the Question long transcended incorrigible.

Another truth I believe about Waddell is this. Waddell knows things have done badly. I also think … that Waddell thinks that he can fix it. I think Waddell believes that deep in his soul. Ya know something else? William Ho, (the laughing stock of “American Idol” fame,) also believes he can sing well. Just ask him. He’ll tell you he’s great. You’re the one who’s tone deaf, will be his counter claim.

If the Atlanta Spirit, LLC approached Waddell and asked, “Can you fix this, Don?” What should Waddell’s answer be? (A) “Yes, I can.” Or (B) “I’ll be honest. This task is beyond me.”

Still thinking?

I’m pretty confident in an “A” response. That the AS, LLC would even have to ask that question is rather troubling to begin with.

By Mitch Holder

December 9, 2008 1:07 PM | Link to this

** Kovy Trade is coming but probably not till next year.

My thoughts are that the Thrashers will hold onto him until next year for production and marketability alone. but he will be gone. remember a few years ago when Bobby Holick and Marian Hossa were in the press stating how Atlanta was a team on the rise now we are the doormats where players consider Columbus as greener pastures than Atlanta. Broken promises by Waddell( which has scared off the free agents) mixed with Kovy’s good former Thrasher friends in new places being productive and winning has made up his mind he will be elsewhere.he has always had class and will serve out his contract and not undermine the team

We have one shot only of geting him to stay , a complete house cleaning replacing Waddell with a prominant Gm that he would respect and big time Free agent moves mixed with the current team team making the playoffs. a long shot with the spirit situation the way it is.

We as Thrasher fans will look back on Kovy’s days fondly whenever he goes,but always wish we would have had a gm that could have assembled a better team around him. Sadly he will make the Hockey Hall of fame one day and it won’t be in a Thrashers jersey.

By Ivy

December 9, 2008 1:36 PM | Link to this

Personally, I believe trading Kovalchuk would not be the best move for this organization. Ilya has talent unlike many other current players in the NHL, and I do not see how trading a player such as he would directly benefit the team. Ilya does possess great skill and has an extremely effective shot (when it’s on point), and I do not know who we could get in exchange for him that equal what he would bring to the team. Is there one player out there, who is currently not under contractual obligations, that by far either equals or bests the talents of Kovy?

Furthermore, Kovalchuk himself has stated to the media that he wishes to stay here in Atlanta.Ilya knows what he has here, and while he does want to be a Cup contender, it seems to me that he is planning on being a contender on the team that made a name for him in the NHL.

Also, currently, I do not know what the point is in discussing the trading of Kovalchuk when the organization cannot even begin to discuss contract nagotions until the summer of 2009.