Ice Man

By Trish

December 3, 2008 11:53 AM | Link to this

Confirmed—Lavi out in Carolina. Paul Maurice back in with Ron Francis as his associate head coach.

By Smoothie

December 3, 2008 11:54 AM | Link to this

Damn you Rawhide! You’re too diligent! Okay, reposting from the last blog to keep the convo going about Perrin Oh yeah, one more thing: Go to hell Avery!

Anyone else hear about Perrin’s comments to a French Canadian radio station before yesterday’s game? Word is that he’s very unhappy and has already requested a trade

Yeah, I can’t blame Perrin for wanting a trade (assuming he actually said something to that effect) as he is being under-utilized in my opinion. Why is he not at least playing consistent minutes on the third line? Perhaps his ability to set up his teammates would benefit a guy like Jason Williams who does have an accurate shot if little else.

Why not give Eric a chance to center Williams and Armstrong? Then you have two lines (Kovy’s and # 3) with a blend of grit, size, speed, scoring touch and passing acumen. Erik Christensen is a bust and Pens fans were right to warn us when the trade was made last year. Boy did Donnie Fraudell get duped on that one. We should have held out for Jordan Staal and Army even if we had to give up Esposito.

By Jason

December 3, 2008 12:17 PM | Link to this

There was a lot of talk in the media last season of Waddell really wanting Laviolette as the coach here. They are supposedly close friends from USA Hockey. He waited for the Canes to make a decision as long as he could, before moving to hire Anderson. Seriously doubt Waddell would do anything now about it, or would he? Consultant or scout?

I like both coaches, but so far I am happy with Anderson. He has inherited a inconsistant and very mediocre roster that is still finding a way to underacheive. I’m not sure the results would be drastically different with Laviolette here. What do you guys think?

I still say the ASG won’t do anything(firing Waddell hopefully) until their trial with Belkin is completed. Isn’t the next trial date set for sometime in early ‘09?

By Nikita

December 3, 2008 12:18 PM | Link to this

I already registered my opinion on Sean Avery, so I’ll take a pass on that one.

As to last night’s game and the team going forward…

Last night’s game was rough, with few exceptions. I would expect it to be somewhat rough, however, given the changes in lines. IMO, the problem is not, in general, the skills of the team — it’s their work ethic, and it is John Anderson in some cases screwing with formulas that work to try formulas that may not. It is also John Anderson doing what previous coaches have done and letting things other than statistics and observation color his team composition. And at this point in the season, he needs to do his best to put together more or less viable lines and allow them to gel. He also needs to, probably, put some of the most challenged players (either in technique, because we lack the ability to develop them or use them appropriately, or because they are not adjusting to JA’s system) out to pasture or on lines together that can have their minutes limited, so that better players are not brought down with them.

To that end, and based at least partially on the Falconer’s analysis of special teams and offensive/defensive possession, I suggest the following:

Kovalchuk/Reasoner/Thorbs (I think Thorbs is a good match because of his size and has adequate skills, but he will need time to train his body to keep up with Kovalchuk and play more than double the minutes he’s been receiving. So I think he will immediately help Kovalchuk, but he won’t generate many goals for some time. Luckily, Reasoner and Kovalchuk are sufficiently golden to soldier on while that happens.)

Koz/White/Little (ain’t broke, don’t fix it.)

Perrin/Williams/Armstrong (all three of these guys need and deserve a stable line and positioning. Also, I have yet to understand why JA would take obvious chemistry and destroy it re: Army and Perrin. Also, Perrin has proven his ability to help younger players become steadier, consistently-scoring players and do hard work and that is what we need from this line.)

…no one currently on the team should be on the 4th line. I suggest we keep Boults, but we scratch him most of the time. Bring up or buy the largest and best checkers.

Sell/trade immediately: Eric Christensen, Jimmy Slater. EC because he’s a bust, Slater because he’s not going to develop here.

Eventually we might buy a top-line forward for Kovalchuk, at which point we may bump down others.

Defense: These are the combos, to be matched as fits: Hainsey/Enstrom, Valabik/Oystrick, Ex/Havelid, and fit in Schneider where we can and as he’s able. Bring up Grant Lewis as our 7th. Expect to trade/sell/scratch Havelid and Ex.

The PP is looking better, and I think we should generally leave it as is right now.

I think we should let Perrin pick his own damn PK, though. He surely has preferences, and will sink or swim with it regardless.

By Smoothie

December 3, 2008 12:40 PM | Link to this

Nikita — I pretty much agree with you on all of your line and pairing recommendations. While I could see the pairings a little differently, I don’t know why we have yet to break apart the Swedes. Toby needs to play with someone bigger and stronger who can do some of the dirty work in order to free up space for him to create more offensively. I think he is feeling too much pressure to perform knowing Havelid is not going to take chances and stray far from the formula that has and does work for him.

By BAF

December 3, 2008 2:01 PM | Link to this

I’m no Avery fan. But I think it is totally lame that the league suspended him. If the Stars wanted to, then fine. But the league? They have no business suspending someone over a classless comment. Give me a break. Stick to more important issues.

By Scotty

December 3, 2008 2:35 PM | Link to this

Sean Avery is a P-U-N-K!

I wish to God the league would have delayed his suspension and allowed his worthless @ss to go out on the ice in Calgary. His worthless @ss would have been buried in the ice and I would have loved to have seen it!

Tough news for Laviolette. He’s a good coach and I am sure he’ll get a chance elsewhere.

I don’t even want to talk about the Montreal game. Major league bummer.

By Wings fan in Ga.

December 3, 2008 2:51 PM | Link to this

I thought what Avery said was kind of funny and the league never should have suspended him (if the team wanted to, that’s fine, but not the league), but I also thank God he is no longer on Detroit because he isn’t a good player.

By Bob

December 3, 2008 3:03 PM | Link to this

Avery is an idiot, everyone knows that. But it’s completely out of place for the NHL to suspend a guy from play for making the comment he made. First, Elisha Cuthbert has not been hiding her, um, shall I say, questionable moral character. On an MTV Cribs episode last year, she was laying out all over Avery’s back deck dressed skimpily and looking suggestively at Avery as he just kind of winked at the camera. If the girl has loose morals and is hanging out dating this and that guy, and Avery calls her out, that’s just calling a spade a spade, or sloppy seconds as it were. You ever seen the half dressed pics of her in those soft porn magazines that litter the men’s rooms all over this country? The girl has loose morals and does not hide it.

This isn’t Church, it’s the freaking NHL, and I’m a very conservative guy. But if the girl has loose morals and makes no qualms about showing herself everywhere, why should Bettman jump all over Avery for making a fairly benign comment (and one that I think was pretty funny!). If Phaneauf is mad, well, guess what, the truth hurts and he is dating Avery’s sloppy seconds. If he had any morals, he wouldn’t have touched her (“ugh, you’ve been with Avery, go away Puck Bunny”). But no, Phaneauf made his bed, Avery just laid him in it. And Bettman completely overreacted.

I guarantee you that Avery has said way worse stuff than that on the ice and no one “knocked him senseless”. One benign comment and he’s out? Completely, utterly, ridiculous and it makes the NHL look like hypocrites (you can swing a stick at someone’s head and try to kill them and we’ll review it and let you know about a suspension, but call an opponent out for dating your sloppy seconds and you’re gone within the same hour you said it, baby!”.)

Ludicrous.

By Nikita

December 3, 2008 3:32 PM | Link to this

Agreeing with Bob, big time. The comment was minor, it was theatrical and was designed to draw press from someone other than the old mossbacks of the NHL journo core. Which, well, at least SOMEONE is, because not only is hockey not getting a ton of mainstream coverage, but it seems determined not to with its network deals. And double agreement on the hypocrisy —I mentioned Roenick on the ice (who screamed a clearly audible and totally readable series of epithets that I’m not typing here because it’s genuinely repulsive and beyond FCC standards), but beyond relatively silly stuff like cussing and calling people’s mamas and alleged livestock romantic partners out, the league has yet to take an active interest in intentional, vicious activity that has a high probability of ending careers and permanently debilitating people.

So, yeah, boy, that euphemistically offensive statement made to the television cameras? Totally can’t have that. Obviously Avery would’ve gotten off better if he’d just clipped someone or put an elbow into someone’s head.

(All sports have penalties for nasty behavior, but only behavior which is unsportsmanlike and/or illegal. What Avery did was neither, and would have gotten him suspended in no other league.)

By Nikita

December 3, 2008 3:33 PM | Link to this

P.S. The Avery discussion has me flashing back to Dickie Dunn screaming about punishment for Ned Braden.

By Brick Tamland

December 3, 2008 3:41 PM | Link to this

Avery is a major league D-bag, but I didn’t see anything too wrong with what he said.

They suspend Avery “indefinitely” for making a comment to the press, and yet ignored the Ruutu hit on Kovalchuk last year. The disciplinary committee has their priorities all out of whack.

I don’t like Avery, but I wouldn’t have suspended him unless he was making death threats.

By Alan

December 3, 2008 3:58 PM | Link to this

Obviously Avery would’ve gotten off better if he’d just clipped someone or put an elbow into someone’s head.

First, we’re talking sloppy seconds. Now, we’re talking getting off.

(too risque?)

He did get away with what he did in the playoffs last year, though. Though I can’t see why the league has chosen to punish him for his words, as opposed to his actions last year. Or any other year.

By Bob

December 3, 2008 4:03 PM | Link to this

Obviously Avery would’ve gotten off better if he’d just clipped someone or put an elbow into someone’s head

Yep, the hypocrisy is just ridiculous here.

Sorry Rawhide, and you know I’m a conservative male (with daughters nonetheless), but the league was way out of line with their reaction to what he said.

And if my daughters were acting like Elisha Cuthbert, you know what (well, they wouldn’t be able to leave the house if they were in the first place), but if they were, then I would understand why comments were being made about them, I wouldn’t shoot the messenger, I’d be trying to deal with the real issue there.

By R. Stroz

December 3, 2008 4:05 PM | Link to this

On the Avery issue:

Why does Avery receive a suspension for busting Phaneuf’s chops and get a pass for screaming FU to the Atlanta fans in the playoffs with the entire event captured on national television.

Which is worse behavior:

1) screaming FU to an arena full of fans, including children, while on national television

2) waving a hockey stick in front of a goalie

3) making fun of The Dion and his woman

Sounds like the old Canadian double standard to me.

By R. Stroz

December 3, 2008 4:14 PM | Link to this

Also, after the infamous Atlanta playoff outburst, Brett Hull was on television with Avery praising Avery “for maturity way beyond his years.”

Well Brett received what he deserved condoning Avery’s behavior and then signing the twit in Dallas.

Brett put his foot in his mouth that time, instead of the crease.

Bon Appetit

By Nikita

December 3, 2008 4:19 PM | Link to this

Elisha Cuthbert’s conduct has nothing to do with this. I have no idea what her morals are like, and regardless it’s tacky to talk smack about uninvolved parties.

But…the Brodeur incident is a good example of how to deal with this. Avery didn’t get punished because the rules didn’t allow for it. So the league restated the rule and anyone who does something similar will now be punished. Personally, I don’t think he deserves to be punished. What he did wasn’t illegal or even meeting the legal standards of obscenity that the FCC applies to the airwaves. It had nothing to do with the game. But…if what he did is so wrong, but we haven’t punished anyone for it recently or ever, then the right thing to do would be to restate the rule and punish anyone who engages in similatr activities.

By Bob

December 3, 2008 4:21 PM | Link to this

Sounds like the old Canadian double standard to me

I tell ya, between the Presidential election, the complete meltdown of our economy and the govt’s “handling” of it, and then multiple little things like this nonsense with Avery and the league’s complete overreaction, it’s like we’ve left reality and have been transported to Bizarro World

By Rawhide

December 3, 2008 4:22 PM | Link to this

Bob…(and all others for that matter)…of course you owe me no apologies for a dissenting opinion. As you know, agreeing with the Blog Host is not a prerequisite for participation here. And I do understand why you and others take the stance that you do.

For me, it’s strictly business..not personal.

The NHL is a “business” and the players earn their money working for that “business”. Sean Avery has, on many occasions, been an embarrassment to his business. His he the only player to do so in the NHL? Nope. But he has been on multiple occasions.

Can poeple cite “inconsistencies” with such disiplinary actions…yup. But that’s not an excuse to fail to act when they feel it to be necessary.

Maybe they chose to take action, as I said, to save an on-ice incident that would be another black eye to the sport. Maybe they chose to because, to them, this was just the last straw with him. Maybe they chose to because they didn’t want the N.O.W. crowd showing up to league HQ or every Dallas Stars game picketing.

shrugs…I dunno.

But any employee who embarrasses the company he works for eventually gets disciplinary action…even if the “action” that triggered the “discipline” in and of it’s self wasn’t deemed to be “that bad”. (Although I do deem his actions to be so).

We can agree to disagree on how the league chose to respond. I agree with it…you don’t. But I will firmly stand behind the opinion I stated above and the NHL’s right…and the Dallas Stars right…to eradicate any stains that any player puts on the image of the team, the league or the sport in general.

Just my opinion.

Carry on….

By Tony C.

December 3, 2008 4:30 PM | Link to this

My main irritation with this suspension is that it’s “indefinite”.

Now, I’m not defending Avery’s comments (clearly it was rude and crass-however true it may be-I mean Rachel Hunter was dating him now she’s dating Stoll..then The Dion is with his latest ex…I can see where he’ coming from-even if tthat comment should NEVER have been made to the media), but whatabout when he was making cancer jokes???

To me, it seems that jokes about cancer would carry just a little bit more weight than comments about his ex and her new bf.

Just my $0.02.

P.S.

Anybody else smell a C in Hainsey’s future???

By LAC

December 3, 2008 4:34 PM | Link to this

Interesting… A team above us in the standings cans their coach, while we relax into LAST place and do not do one DAMN thing… Just what are these f’ing owners doing ? Nothing for sure.

As for avery, when you have to stand in front of a Hall of Fame Goalie in the playoffs waving your arms and acting like a complete fool, and these comments, well seems like the ECHL would be a good place for a player of ZERO skill and a pea sized brain, Kinda like the size of waddell’s worthless brain.

Well it’s offical, This season is abust, Caps & Canes fire coaches and one got a positive result, one may, so why in Heavens name can don waddell NOT be fired. The Master of Disaster has all but killed NHL hockey in Atlanta !

By Thrashy Thrashy

December 3, 2008 5:18 PM | Link to this

Avery deserved it. However you slice it, he’s calling a woman “loose.” The NHL doesn’t need that kind of publicity. Keep that talk in the locker room or, for God’s sake, off camera. After all, if we say something like that at our jobs (you know, if women are around), we’re likely to be fired.

By Brendan

December 3, 2008 5:23 PM | Link to this

Rawhide, if you’ll grant an indulgence, I’d like to briefly change the topic to an item that appeared in today’s (December 3, 2008) AJC Business Section, on Pages B1 and B4. The article is title, Lawyers: Deal had been Reached, by Kristi E. Swartz.

Certain items piqued my curisity. Like this nugget, offered up by McDavid’s Attorney, Lamar Mixson, “After the purchase price got down to $96 million, Turner (TBS?) decided it was going to sell the team —that it already agreed to sell to McDavid—to a bunch of insiders.” Mixson continued, “The one thing we know is that they (Atlanta Spirit, LLC) have spent the past three years suing each other. You can’t manage a team if you are suing each other.”

But the true highlight of the article was offered up by TBS’ defense Attorney, Mr. Jim Lamberth, when talking about the financial ‘bleeding’ that the Hawks and Thrashers experienced, and allegedly continue to experience, in this quote: “McDavid didn’t lose anything over not buying these assets. He saved himself misfortune.”

Swartz’ article then states that Internal documents from Turner Broadcasting said the Hawks and Thrashers projected to lose about $250 million from 2002 through 2005.

Stop. The purchase price got down to $96 million, but the projected losses were $250 million? How can this be? So, McDavid was supposed to SPEND $96 million to lose another $250 million? Sorry, I don’t buy that one for a second. By the way, (NOT PART of the article I’m citing,) the reported purchase price, in 1999, by Ted Turner, was $99 million. And, if I recall correctly, the ACTUAL sale price of the Thrashers was $131 million. The team is currently valued by Forbes Magazine at or about $146 million, but would fetch substantively more than that out on the open market. That’s my opinion, anyway, given that Jim Balsillie offered $238 million for the Nashville Predators, who are valued by Forbes at $147-148 million. Now, Balsillie’s offer was beyond ridiculous. But it still drove up the market value of other clubs, presummably Atlanta’s, as well. But I digress.

The article concludes with this statement, “The Spirit owners made $60 million in captial contributions from March 2004 through July 2006, according to court documents.”

By Tony C.

December 3, 2008 6:42 PM | Link to this

As I said above, my only issue is the length of the suspension.

I reckon a 5-game suspension (and resulting loss of income) would serve notice to Avery as well as others as to what will be tolerated and what will not be tolerated when giving an interview.

“Indefinite” over an off-color, off-hand remark? Yet a 3-game suspension for the hit on Bergeron last year? The kid almost died; most people in the arena thought that he had. That type of vicious and dirty play gets punished (relatively) lightly, but making a locker-room type comment gets you suspended until butthead….errr Betteman thinks “enough is enough”.

Granted, the guy has a huge history of being an a*, it still rankles that his suspension is greater than that for somone who makes dangerous, potentially life-threatening plays!

By HookyBob

December 3, 2008 7:02 PM | Link to this

If anyone is counting,…put me down as 100% in agreement with Rawhide’s position on Avery. While this single comment may not have been worthy of suspension,…it is a straw on the camel’s back. He is the cancer of the NHL and I see no indication that he has any respect for the league or our grand old game. He seems to forget that hockey has given him a very, very good life. I wonder what he would be without it? Hopefully we’ll find out and the NHL can focus on players playing the fastest game out there.

I have to wonder how much Avery has to do with the Stars having as few points as the Thrashers. While much of the problem may be with Turco, I have to think the Brett and Sean duo are helping to pull them down.

Laviollette out in Carolina! Please correct me if I am wrong but is coach Anderson now 2nd in “coach seniority” in the SE Division? I know he trails the leader by only about 7 months.

Sorry to hear that Perrin is unhappy,…but who can blame him? He plays his heart out while “coasters” cost this team goals (and one-goal losses). I’d like to see Eric lined up with Kovy and Thorburn. If not I expect he’ll join a long list of successful NHL players who came through the Thrasher organization.

Lets hope the Thrashers bring a spirited effort to tonight’s game. Go Blue. Gotta go,…game on.

By Sara

December 3, 2008 7:20 PM | Link to this

Brendan there have lots of interesting tidbits filtering out of the McDavid v. TW lawsuit. Those loss projections came up once before along with the actual loss numbers, which were significantly less but still losses all the same. Let’s be honest - I don’t think anyone ever buys a sports franchise with the thought of making windfall profits off of operations. Some teams will generate some profits but typically sports franchises do well just to break even. The investment is really the long-term investment of the overall value of the franchise increasing over a long duration, and netting a profit on resale. Outside of that, it should be done for the pure “pleasure” of owning a sports team.

You know, TW treated the Thrashers like red-headed step-children. They didn’t fund them worth a crap and could have cared less how they performed. But TW wasn’t in the business of running sports teams. And for a few years leading up to the sales, AOL/TW was losing billions over dollars overall. Under those circumstances no they aren’t going to fund some hockey team. Yet in stepped AS LLC, an partnership formed specifically to own and operate two sports franchises and the arena. That is the entities sole purpose - and yet the entity could still apparently care less how the team is performing. It’s not like they don’t know.

All I can figure is they truly do want to tank it this season in the hopes of landing Tavares and thus securing a young, talented, and cheap forward. Maybe if that comes to fruition we’ll see some drastic overhaul and spending spree next off-season. I’m not going to volunteer to hold my breath though.

By Tom

December 3, 2008 9:19 PM | Link to this

Notice though the discussion is on losses by the team. These losses are mitigated by owning Phillips Arena.

It may not be a profitable operation overall but the income of the Thrashers can be massaged by moving revenue to the arena side and vice versa.

Growing up we had a friend who owned a ferry company and a parking lot. The ferry broke even and was state regulated. The parking lot minted money and was unregulated. So when dealing with the Thrashers and income, do not take everything as absolute.

By Sara

December 3, 2008 9:59 PM | Link to this

Tom while that’s a valid point about the arena, I don’t think it’s profitable enough to absorb these kinds of losses. If it were, the owners wouldn’t still be having to pour in that much outside capital.

The arena is unquestionably profitable. The Hawks ought to be since the NBA has a much more favorable TV contract than the NHL does. If the Hawks were more successful, the gate would be higher and the team could likely at least break even if not turn a marginal profit. While I’m not certain the Thrashers could ever break even or turn a marginal profit in this market, a successful on-ice product should at least truly minimize the losses to the point where the profits from the other two could cover them sufficiently. But since that is not the case…

By HookyBob

December 3, 2008 10:10 PM | Link to this

Ungood

By Jameson

December 3, 2008 10:16 PM | Link to this

Anyone think that Laviolette would like to try his had at GM?

By Alan

December 3, 2008 10:18 PM | Link to this

while that’s a valid point about the arena, I don’t think it’s profitable enough to absorb these kinds of losses.

I think the arena is more than just profitable. I think they make quite a bit more than people seem to think on the arena alone. If they didn’t, they might have an actual reason or two to invest in our sports franchises.

By Brendan

December 3, 2008 11:45 PM | Link to this

That’s an excellent post, Sara. And I completely agree with the NBA revenue vs. NHL revenue, and the value of the Arena and Arena events, and the shifting of monies/profit. And, above all, I agree that an hockey owner, or even NBA owner, ought to be doing it for the sheer enjoyment value of it. I don’t like corporate ownership of sports franchises. I much prefer an isolated owner. It puts a face on a franchise.

That said, with revenue-sharing dollars, Atlanta should be a “break-even, to turn a profit” type market. That is, barring mismanagement. Which, sadly, is what has occurred here. Why lie? Why try to sugarcoat it? It is what it is. But imagine if the team were being properly run?

Still with me? The team might be 3 lines deep, with an IDENTITY, with a long-established system, and a HARDCORE fan base, that packs the house, at whatever cost the tickets are sold. I still say … all of that is possible. But it has to start with good decision-making. But these clowns can’t even “buy out” a partner. They stuck with Billy Knight for how long? And he’d still be here, if he hadn’t resigned over the organization’s unwillingness to fire a Head Coach with 222 losses to his credit, on THEIR watch! Look at how long they’ve retained Waddell? With no end seemingly in sight. They’re clueless in the corner.

Now, it’s very easy to second-guess moves. Anyone can do that. We could argue that we could have selected one of the Sedin Twins in 1999. Or gotten Martin Havlat, who wasn’t drafted until 26th overall. Etc. Patrik Stefan actually was rated very highly. In 2002, I never wanted Lehtonen. I’m documented in 2002 as having made that statement, and repeated them 116 times since. I wanted Bouwmeester (arguably the wrong call,) if Florida passed on him, but was happy to select Rick Nash at #2. Latter round picks, in early years, like Libor Ustrulnul and Ilya Nikulin never panned out. In 2003, I wanted Ryan Suter (arguably, the wrong choice), but he was selected at 6th overall by Nashville, leaving the choice of Braydon Coburn vs. Dion Phaneuf, at #8. We didn’t develop Coburn and dished him for short-term, immediate help, to salvage a playoff berth. Mistake? Longterm, yes. Short-term, no. The move worked. Atlanta got a division title and hosted playoff games. It didn’t win any, but it got there. But in the “big picture,” salvaging moves like these reek of desperation. And good teams, that are intelligently-built, don’t reek of desperation. They have a plan. And they tweak in the offseason and at the trade deadline. What they don’t do is trying to OVERHAUL the roster at either juncture. Those are tell-tale signs of mismanagement. I’ll just leave it there.

By R. Stroz

December 3, 2008 11:54 PM | Link to this

At the next Thrasher home game, all in attendence should bring a pack of hot pink Post-Its with Fire Waddell written on them and put them all over the arena.

By Rawhide

December 4, 2008 12:20 AM | Link to this

BTW, dudes and dudettes…the Voices program featuring Dan Kamal will be Thursday evening at 7:30 on the NHL Network.

By Nikita

December 4, 2008 1:04 AM | Link to this

I’ll comment on tonight’s game in some depth tomorrow, but meanwhile…man, a game has not depressed me like that since the Flyers game.

By Sage of Bluesland

December 4, 2008 1:14 AM | Link to this

Where are the sheep and their excuses? I guess we won’t hear from them until next offseason as they gush about the wonderful moves made by Don Waddell and how they weally, weally think we’ll make the pwayoffs…

Silly little sheep. When will you learn? Hiding again? That’s what you do best, I see…

By ranallo10 (in AT)

December 4, 2008 6:06 AM | Link to this

While much of the problem may be with Turco, I have to think the Brett and Sean duo are helping to pull them down.

That’s an interesting statement to me, as last year Hull was the one example used on these boards showing a team can change general managers mid-season, and still produce a winning product.

Re: Business Stuff of the ASG — My belief is that they make plenty of money off of the operating rights to Philips Arena. All losses being reported in these cases, in my opinion, reflect that of the costs to run the franchises and do not include the revenue gained from the arena.

I agree with Sara and Brendan — among others I’m sure — that the owner(s) of a team are not involved to make a profit within the first few years of purchasing the team, but rather see ownership as a long term investment. This isn’t something where throwing some money around, moving some assets, and then selling within a year will get you a dollar for every nickel spent. Rather, I see owning a team as a long term investment, spending money to make money, with the ultimate goal (if you’re in it for the profit) of becoming successful so that your organization’s value is steadily increasing. 10-20 years down the line, you try to sell for a massive profit.

There’s an interesting article out today about the Georgia Dome, in the AJC. In 1998 it cost about $215M to build the Georgia Dome, a state of the art facility in it’s time (I believe the design of the roof was a world’s first, or biggest, I can’t recall exactly). Since then, the arena has declined in value relative to other stadiums in the league, and is now 20 of 30 in regards to stadium age. NY and Dallas are building new stadiums, with price tags at the $1B+ mark.

Those owners are investing HEAVILY into their venue, because it’s not simply used 8 times a season and possibly a few times in the post season. The stadiums are used year in and year out, for countless other events…namely Super Bowls, NCAA March Madness, college football bowl games, etc.

Philips Arena is one of the newest in the NHL (Minnesota, Columbus and Pittsburgh are the only cities I can think of that have an arena of the same age or younger). The Arena is what continues to bring in the money, when the team and it’s high priced players and operating costs are on vacation. There are two professional franchises operating out of it, there’s the circus, MMA, countless concerts, and various other promotional events done at the Arena. Hell, there are as many banners for BANDS in Philips than there are for the Thrashers (one, at last count).

In my opinion the Arena rights are the crux of the ASG’s business venture. They are in a prime position to continue to make money from the Arena until it’s considered “old” technology, then pawn the teams and arena off to some owner(s) looking to make a quick buck by investing in a new arena, or possibly even move the teams to other cities (I’d be surprised by that).

By Sara

December 4, 2008 7:26 AM | Link to this

ranallo The Rock was just built last year for the Devils. As to arena revenues, I’m not certain how many sports teams also own the rights to the stadium/arena in which they play. They do not necessarily go hand in hand.

Brendan as you say we can “if, and, and but” all day long but it doesn’t change the reality of what is. Kvetching about draft picks is virtually pointless, especially since frankly this team has done alright with drafting. Everyone likes to argue that point but the facts is what they is. Atlanta isn’t the first team to not have lots of late round picks work out. They aren’t the first team to come up empty-handed with a first-round pick, even a first overall first-round pick. I pointed out about Burke a few weeks ago that while in Vancouver they had two draft years that did not net them a single solitary NHL-calibre player. Including both first-round picks. I always understood why Waddell chose Lehtonen. Goaltending was a major problem for this club and he was trying to ensure that it didn’t continue to be. That obviously didn’t work out quite like he wanted, but the rationale behind the decision does make sense. And it’s not like drafting goalies high in the draft isn’t done either. Fleury, Price, DiPietro - all of those were top five first-round picks. Even Detroit took a goalie this year with their first-round pick.

I’ll harp on this ‘til the cows come home, but the tone is set at the very top of an organization. It is all about the owners, their attitudes, and their game plans. Any GM must work within those parameters. So any GM who comes here has to work with a limited budget for the foreseeable future. He will have to deal with owners who prefer “yes men” over those offering constructive criticism. That’s why both Mullin and Knight ended up out of the organization - they both tried to tell the owners they were wrong. Waddell isn’t a dumb one - he keeps his mouth shut in private and says happy things in public and so he keeps his job.

People around the NHL are not looking at Atlanta and saying Waddell single-handedly sunk this ship. People in the biz know how it works. Did people fault GMs in Chicago for the Hawks being bad? Of course not - everyone knew Wirtz was behind that mess. People know that Wang is responsible for a lot of the nonsense on the island. People know that the group behind the Maple Leafs are a pain in the rear cluster (including Burke if his acceptance speech was anything to go by). And GMs have come and gone from those organizations over the years with the results changing very little if at all because the ownership problem remains the same.

To what this ownership group is committed I’m not sure. It certainly isn’t 100% committed to putting winning teams on the ice/court because in 5+ years now, they haven’t managed to do either. If it were just the Thrashers, it might be easier to lay all this blame squarely on Don Waddell. But it isn’t. Heck, even the Arena product is questionable with poor concession service, stands closed frequently, long lines, questionable quality, not to mention ridiculous prices. And the one thing the Arena, Hawks, and Thrashers all have in common is not Don Waddell - it’s p**-poor ownership. Figure out a way to solve that problem, and we might actually get somewhere.

By ranallo10 (in AT)

December 4, 2008 8:00 AM | Link to this

Sara — I forgot about NJ, thanks. And you’re right, they don’t always go hand in hand…which is why you see some cities at the risk of losing their teams (Pittsburgh, Minnesota) when attempting to finance a new arena. The city deems it not worth the money, while the team’s owners say it’s a sticking point or they’ll move elsewhere. To me, it’s rather clear owners see the arena rights as integral to achieving the highest profit, as well as possessing complete control over their franchise.

And I agree with your assessment of the ownership group, and the off base (even if partially correct) blame often being thrown Waddell’s way. I’m sure I’ve said it many times in the past but I don’t always support his moves, his words, etc, and I have absolutely no problem if he’s removed from his position (I even have a list of successors I’d like to see interviewed for the position), but I don’t think he’s the root of all that is wrong in the Thrashers organization. If ownership cared about their product, he would’ve been fired. He’s still in his position because ownership allows it, and likes something about the way he manages the team.

Clearly their metrics for success are completely different than that of a fan. Until they show us otherwise I fear it wont matter who the GM is, we’ll see the same outcome.

By ranallo10 (in AT)

December 4, 2008 8:16 AM | Link to this

Okay, in an attempt to get back on topic, I’m going to have to say I agree with Tony C on this one.

An indefinite suspension pending a face-to-face meeting for a loosely obscene/inflammatory remark about an opponent’s girlfriend (and his ex-girlfriend)…yet players purposefully throw elbows at their opponents head, hit players in a vulnerable position at full speed and high, swing sticks at their opponents head, stomp on opponents skates, etc, and they’re given a 1-2 game suspension and a possible meeting/review to determine if more is necessary (or often times, the hits go unpunished).

To me, it’s simply misguided priorities with regards to the way they attempt to handle their players’ actions.

I didn’t care for the statement, as it wasn’t even remotely hockey related…but I definitely don’t agree with the way they suspended him (immediately), nor the length of the suspension.

I understand the need for suspending HIM, but I don’t agree with it. Had anybody else in the league said such a thing, it would’ve been in the media briefly and the NHL wouldn’t have raised an eyebrow (maybe gave the player a warning, at worst). Yet because Avery is crass, is boisterous, and is seemingly an a*****, the NHL deemed it worth their time to suspend him within a few hours of his statement.

Don’t they have better things to be reviewing, or more dangerous players to be keeping an eye on?

As a hockey fan, I’m more worried about players like Ryan Hollweg who bring nothing of value to the arena 90% of the time, then a player like Avery who is a fine 3rd line player with some skill, but has a bad attitude.

This should’ve been a Dallas enforced punishment, not an NHL punishment.

By Brendan

December 4, 2008 9:21 AM | Link to this

There’s no doubt, Sara, that ownership is problem #1. Most of the bloggers see it plain as day. As Ranallo might say, “Who’s more at fault?: The underachieving GM … or the ownership that retains him?” The answer is in bold, in case wanted to even give it a moment’s thought. And I definitely agree that DRAFTING is certainly an inexact science, that is easy to second-guess. I think Waddell has improved in his drafting as time has gone by. A lot of his picks are “late bloomers.” And some of the speed of the development of the players might have been due to coaching/strategy issues. But some of it … can be directly traced to roster spots going to Tony Hrkac, Daniel Tjarnqvist, and the “electrifying” Per Svartvadet. We just had to have Jaroslav Modry, Ken Klee, and Reardon types on the blueline. There are some “GM judgement” issues at work there.

In my view, (and I hardly think I’m alone,) it will do more DAMAGE in the public’s eye to retain Waddell than it would to find some other “caretaker” GM to bridge the gap between NOW and 2011, when the lawsuit will be resolved.

Digest that? You should take some time to mull that one over. Where is attendance right now? Think it’ll get better or worse, with Waddell retained? Allrighteee then.

Look folks, we’re at a bare-bones budget. We’re headed to the lottery draft, where there are two (2) consensus picks awaiting us. Either one would be good. Any other GM can manage to pick one of them, just as ANY OTHER GM could have, and would have, selected Zach Bogosian at #3, in last year’s draft. “No brain decisions” are just that. Almost ANYONE can do them.

But do NOT hold your breath, as Sara says, that some REPUTABLE GM will raise his hand for the Thrashers assignment. That’s not going to happen. A real GM will go with ownership that enables him to succeed. Looking around … NOPE!, none found here.

Stop. Imagine the scene. A “real” GM sets foot in the office space of the AS, LLC. After the customary handshakes and greetings, and “How was your flight?” type welcoming comments, the very next topic will be THE BUDGET. The candidate will ask, “How much will I get to spend?” Bruce, Michael, Ed, and Rutherford stare BLANKLY at each other and SHRUG. The GM candidate then looks downward, staring at the ground, trying to disguise his disgust and sugarcoat his next response, which will be what? Bueller? Bueller?? Bueller??

That’s right, the GM CANDIDATE will stand up, smile, and thank the Atlanta Spirit, LLC for their time and consideration, but that he would like to politely withdraw his interest in the position. More customary handshakes will follow. And the GM Candidate will walk out the door thinking, “Now there was COMPLETELY WASTED DAY in the history of my life.” Then, he’ll board a plane at Hartsfield, and zoom his way out of our city in what might be described more as a “get away” then a “departure.”

Tell me I’m wrong. Go ahead. Tell me I’m wrong.

By Bob

December 4, 2008 10:19 AM | Link to this

People around the NHL are not looking at Atlanta and saying Waddell single-handedly sunk this ship

Uh, yes they are. For writing so many words, you sure don’t have a firm grasp on what’s going on.

Riddle me this, how many owners has this club had?

Now ask yourself how many GMs this club has had?

The answer’s pretty simple. I know you’ve wasted novels of words trying to blame the owners for this, but as I’ve told you, the owners spent MAX cap their first two years in owning this club, and Waddell still couldn’t get the job done. Three different owners, and Waddell hasn’t gotten the job done?

Waddell’s drafting is fine? lol.

Typical accountant, too tied up in the numbers to see the big picture clear as day in front of her.