AJC > Sports Thrashers > Blog > Archives > 2008 > October > 26 > Entry
Horseshoes And Hand Grenades
The Atlanta Journal-Constitution
Close that’s the manner in which Atlanta played Detroit and Boston this past weekend.
Close.
But of course, as the old saying goes, close only counts in horseshoes and hand grenades.
The two games played out in very opposite fashions, however. After falling behind by 3 goals in Detroit, I’m sure many thought it was lights out but they battled back. Then, they took a 2-0 lead against the Bruins and couldn’t hold on down the stretch to snag any points there either.
Close but no CEE-gar.
Driving through the rain Friday night, I listen to the Detroit radio feed on XM radio as the Wings took a 4-1 lead on Atlanta after 6:41 into the second thanks in large part to one Mr. Marian Hossa who finished that evening with a pair of goals, an assists and the first star of the game.
To their credit, the Thrashers made a game of it in the third. Ron Hainsey scoring a goal of the power play variety the first such tally since opening night. Brett Sterling, playing in his first game of the season, netted another at the 16:11 mark to get us to within one. The Detroit radio guys seemed very impressed with the way Atlanta fought their way back into things as well as the backhanded pass off the spin from Christensen to set up Sterling’s goal.
Still haven’t seen it looking forward to doing so right after posting this.
Unfortunately, an empty-netter sealed our fate.
On to Beantown
Now, for this game, I’m enjoying listening to it behind the lake house while roasting hot dogs and marshmallows with the fam underneath the stars. I don’t get Dan Kamal for this game either instead settling for the BAH-stan feed. I was alone by the end of the second period as everyone retired inside I continued to listen and watched as, one by one, the other house lights turned off across the lake.
This one started much better two power play goals in the first Williams and Schneider. Then Ilya Kovalchuk notch another off the man advantage after Boston had tied it in the second.
That’s right boys and girls four power play goals in three consecutive periods! Hard to believe, but true!
3-3 heading to the third
After giving up the go-ahead goal five minutes into the final period, Colby Armstrong shakes off a wicked hit from Zdeno Chara according to the Bruins announcers in time to get the puck and feed it to Kozlov for the tying goal with over 12 minutes left to play.
This sounded like a good game a close one but “close” was un-good given the fact that we all but ran their butts out of the barn in the first. But we can still win this one, right?
Wrong!
Milan Lucic goal for the hat trick with 101 seconds left in the game made it 5-4 Bruins and sent the Thrashers home pointless for the road trip.
It also sent a very loud very foul word flying from my mouth!
Oops…a light came on from across the lake…did I wake up someone? Sorry…my bad…go back to sleep…
Seven goals scored no wins.
Three power play goals nothing in the points column.
Two close games played but we’re not talking horseshoes here.
Doesn’t get much easier either folks. Tuesday the Flyers pay Philips a visit. That team has found their winning touch again going 2-0-2 after a 0-3-1 start. Then there’s another trip up north for a date with the Rangers on Thursday. All they’ve done is compile a league-high 17 points in their initial 11 games this season.
“Close” won’t get it done either this week.
Now Want Some Good News?
Well, as stated above there were four power play goals to celebrate. The Thrashers went 1-7 on the man advantage Friday night to snap what seemed to be a 0 Fer-freakin’-ever slide. Then they went 3-4 Saturday in Boston. Going 4 or 11 on the power play equates to about 36% efficient.
Then there is the fact that, in back-to-back games, Atlanta mustered seven goals total for the weekend from seven different players.
Taking 33 shots on Detroit’s goal Friday and 32 on Boston’s Saturday is good. And it continues a very good trend in this category. For the season, Atlanta has averages 31.2 S/G ninth best in the league.
OK Now Some Un-Good
Two losses. Sorry had to mention that again.
Blowing a 2-0 lead and 3-2 lead in a game the Thrashers really should have won.
After stuffing the Bruins on all seven shots in the first Johan Hedberg then let up five goals on 24 shots the rest of the way.
18 Shots on goal for Boston in the second period in Saturday’s game is waaay un-good.
And Finally The Ugly
Allowing the Wings to take 46 shots on our goal ugly. I know, they’re the champs and all but they were only averaging 38 SOG prior to that game. To his credit, Kari was able to stop 41 of the 45 he faced.
The amount of shots per game that the Thrashers are allowing 36.2 is nothing shy of ugly. That’s second worst in the NHL to the Mullets who give up 37.2 SA/G.





DEL.ICIO.US


Comments
Commenting is now closed for this entry.
By ranallo10 (in AT)
October 26, 2008 7:03 PM | Link to this
Christensen’s pass is absolutely sick…
By tommysteele
October 26, 2008 8:09 PM | Link to this
I do agree with Stendec on the fact that if fans continue to blindly accept ineptitude then ineptitude is all they will be fed. Time after time after time. There must be accountability. Close losses? These are professional athletes. At least they are supposed to be. I also agree that goaltenders must not allow three or more scores per night. That is totally unacceptable. Enjoyed the article. Also, I now keep a close watch on Ilya Kocalchuk due to Stendec. Is he right? I dunno. The guy is certainly not competing with his past fire. Oh well. Win Thrashers.
By Rawhide
October 26, 2008 8:28 PM | Link to this
ranallo - Yes…that Christensen pass to Sterling was a beauty!
However…an more impressive assists, now that I’ve seen the highlihts, is that one from Army in Boston Saturday night. He was CRUSHED by Chara…it de-helmeted him!
He still was able to take advantage of the situation and set up Kozzy!! During the celebration he still looked woozy.
Also…that goal by Hossa Friday night, (the first one), where he stripped Bogosian, undressed Schneids, then arced around Kari to slip in the puck…hate to have to say it, but that was a dandy!
Oh…and that game winner for Boston…it was deserving of the cursing it got from me …even more so now that I’ve seen it.
By Ben
October 26, 2008 8:58 PM | Link to this
the “f* you guys” from Hoss was pretty interesting..
By Smitty
October 26, 2008 9:23 PM | Link to this
Defense is starting to look like those of the past. Slow getting the puck out of our zone. It seems lack of a good clearing pass comes back to hurt us. We also need some muscle or someone with a little passion up front. Someone should have taken a shot at Chara. Hits to the head have to get some kind of response from somebody. Tough week coming up. Would be nice to see a complete effort from everybody for 60 minutes
By PJ
October 26, 2008 10:24 PM | Link to this
Thanks Five-hole for the commentary.
So who is going to the game tomorrow?
By Brendan
October 26, 2008 11:26 PM | Link to this
The Bruin game was an improvement over the Red Wing game. The team is still doing better than I have anticipated to this point in the season. I had 78-points in my preseason projection. If the Thrashers do better than that, then I suppose I should be thrilled about it.
By ranallo10 (in AT)
October 27, 2008 5:35 AM | Link to this
Rawhide — Armstrong’s assist was nice, based on the hit he received prior…but it was hard to see in the replays. The camera panned left after the hit, then you see Armstrong standing in the same spot sans helmet receive the puck and make the pass. What was priceless was the look on his face when the celebration was happening…the “get the F away from me!” look.
At least Havelid checked up on him, but that is one of those instances where someone needs to stand up for your Alternate Captain and put a smack down on anyone on the opponents team. Then, point at Chara and say “no dice”.
(It’s easy for me to say that from my work PC, but anyone who stands up to all 6’9 of Chara has cojones the size of basketballs)
By five_hole
October 27, 2008 7:20 AM | Link to this
I’m still hurting from watching Chara paste Armstrong into the glass. Before the game they were showing the replays of Lucic popping someone thru the glass, but IMO, Chara’s hit was worse.
I thought we would skate all over Baas-tun, but I was wroo … I was wroooo … I was wroooooo … It didn’t work out.
By five_hole
October 27, 2008 8:44 AM | Link to this
BTW, I always heard it as, “close only counts in horseshoes, hand grenades and atom bombs”.
By Nikita
October 27, 2008 8:54 AM | Link to this
(It’s easy for me to say that from my work PC, but anyone who stands up to all 6’9 of Chara has cojones the size of basketballs)
Luckily we have at least two people who are willing. Not sure why they didn’t, though. Maybe because the game was too tight. Even Kozlov’s little mini-scrum was pretty controlled.
On a more trivial note…damn it, I’m sick of Braydon Coburn’s commercials. Actually, in general I’m sick of watching people we misdeployed do well elsewhere…Marc Savard. cough, cough
By Rawhide
October 27, 2008 9:06 AM | Link to this
Five_Hole - True…but I was trying to keep the nuclear option off the table for now.
By Bob
October 27, 2008 10:07 AM | Link to this
Damn, this is the time of year the Thrashers need to be piling up some points, but they’ve only won 2 of their first 8 games. As the season goes on, the playoff teams all step up their games.
Also, don’t let the score fool you, Rawhide. That Wings game was not that close, unfortunatey. The Wings handled them easily and let up in the third, but I never had the feeling we were going to tie that game. It was depressing watching Hoss do what he does, in that dreadful sweater.
By ranallo10 (in AT)
October 27, 2008 10:24 AM | Link to this
Nikita — Marc Savard was properly deployed during his time in Atlanta, he simply was not re-signed. His production in Atlanta got him a fat paycheck.
Coburn was poorly deployed, no doubt about it. He and Kunitz are two players that I see as would’ve-could’ve-should’ve types (just two examples of the few that have been through this system). I blame Coburn’s incorrect utilization solely on Hartley, personally. Kunitz was a unique waiver situation, that one I can let go of much easier.
However, I don’t get sick of seeing them do well, I get sick of hearing people refer to the acquisition(s) as the worst move in the history of the NHL — talk about over exaggeration. Just like how I hope for Hossa to do well in Detroit, I just hate hearing a Detroit fan say “thanks for Hossa” or someone refer to Pittsburgh as “robbing Atlanta blind” in his deal.
Rawhide — UN sanctions?
By Sara
October 27, 2008 11:02 AM | Link to this
ranallo add Kurtis Foster and his 103 MPH slapshot to that list while you’re at it. That one still p*sses me off royally.
By ranallo10 (in AT)
October 27, 2008 11:32 AM | Link to this
Sara — I don’t know if this team would be any better with Foster on the blueline…I don’t view him as a difference maker, but more of a serviceable part (that isn’t much better than the current parts on the blueline).
This team would be definitely better with Coburn and Kunitz on the roster still.
But as Brendan says, bygones.
By Smoothie
October 27, 2008 12:22 PM | Link to this
The offensive effort, well the results, was / were better in the Boston game, but there were just as many defensive gaffes, if not more leading directly to goals. What in God’s name was Toby doing on his hands and knees in trying to defend Lucic before he ultimately screened Moose on the decisive goal? Why didn’t he lay down on the ice and force Lucic to give up the puck in the slot where there was some support?
Moose could have at least had the luxury of playing the pass and not have to worry about a shot coming from Lucic. Still a bad goal by Moose but the fact he had to worry about the shooter and the potential pass completely double-crossed him.
By Nikita
October 27, 2008 12:40 PM | Link to this
Just like how I hope for Hossa to do well in Detroit, I just hate hearing a Detroit fan say “thanks for Hossa” or someone refer to Pittsburgh as “robbing Atlanta blind” in his deal.
IMO, Atlanta did fine in the Pitt. trade. PIT was lucky last year — they had a solid base of underpriced talent and could afford to pay for the extra juice that Hossa brought to their scoring. And it still only got them second against a better team. What did we get in exchange? Well, we got rid of Hossa’s attitude and antagonism toward Kovalchuk, though we also shed his scoring. We lost Dupuis, his grandiose notions, his insane agent, and no discernible offensive advantage. We got Esposito, who I suspect will ultimately be attractive trade bait. We got Christensen (who I think will do reasonably well — the skills are there if the body will abide), Armstrong (who is IMO essential in our rebuilding), and we got (I think — can’t recall which pick he is) Daultan Leveille, who looks pretty promising. Which, as a package, are very appropriate to the task ahead of us. And then, of course, PIT got the same treatment Atlanta did, and no long-term advantage as a result other than more money to pour into its underpriced players hitting the free market. So, good trade.
As to our GM and coach…I feel 100% happy about Anderson, and I think he has the capability to do what is necessary for the team this year. That would be to grow talent, get systems in place, restore or shed damaged talent (which, given how things have been in recent years, is damn near the entire existing team) and do reasonably well in the season, such that we remain in the playoff hunt until the end if we do not get in. A respectable showing would allow the GM to make purchases that are more in line with the market and get the team in line to make a serious push in 2009.
By Smoothie
October 27, 2008 12:55 PM | Link to this
I feel 100% happy about Anderson, and I think he has the capability to do what is necessary for the team this year. That would be to grow talent, get systems in place, restore or shed damaged talent
Having said that Sara, would you agree that Sterling has earned a chance to play at least 3rd line mins if not supplant a very ordinary Slava Kozlov on the 2nd line?
I know it sounds radical, but I think after 8 games in which we’ve only won twice, it might not be too early to give Brett an extended audition on the 2nd line. I really liked what I saw from him over the weekend and the line of Sterling, EC and Army was the one line that consistently kept the puck deep and cycled effectively.
I think we’ll have to live with our first line being more of a “one and done” attack line, but I’ve seen enough grit and scrappiness in Bryan Little to think that the complexion of this line can be changed as well if someone other than White was our C. Problem is who can do it? EC? Not a good enough passer? Reasoner? Too slow. Perrin? Too small? Perhaps the answer is Bryan Little.
Kovy — Little — Thorburn
Sterling — EC — Army
Kozlov — Reasoner — Williams
Boulton — Perrin — Slater
Of course this is assuming White was not on the roster
I like how Todd White is stepping up his offense this year and I don’t have a problem with keeping the 1st line intact, but I can’t help but think putting Thorburn back on the 1st line will give that line the Army-like grit it needs to crash the net and win puck battles in the corner. Little has proven he can be defensively responsible and now that he seems to have found his scoring touch, I’d like to see JA try Thorby on the RW.
Also, with respect to Sterling, if he continues to be that strong on the puck and continues winning puck battles on the half-boards and in the corners, how do we keep him off the 2nd line? He will attack the net and is not afraid to throw his 5’ 7” frame into the line of fire. Kozlov just won’t do that, end of story. We need to find out if Army, EC and Sterling have a future here. I love Kozzy but his best days are behind him.
By Smoothie
October 27, 2008 1:03 PM | Link to this
Wooops! Sorry Sara, I meant to type Nikita on that. I’m always getting our esteemed female bloggers mixed up! But the point is open to debate to anyone who would like to proffer their opinion on my line-up suggestions.
By NASCAR Dave
October 27, 2008 1:10 PM | Link to this
Glad to see STERLING step it up this year…
But what about PERRIN and “CRUSHED”??? Have they found the stat sheet yet??? They do know the season has started, right???
By Sara
October 27, 2008 2:05 PM | Link to this
Smoothie I’ll answer anyway. I absolutely see Sterling as the either short term and/or long term replacement for Kozzie on the second line as long as Sterling can translate his game to the NHL. The problem with the latter is he’s never been given a fair chance to prove that one way or another. I’d have no problem giving him that shot now, even over Kozzie.
ranallo Foster >>> XLB. End of discussion. :D
By Bob
October 27, 2008 2:34 PM | Link to this
What in God’s name was Toby doing on his hands and knees in trying to defend Lucic before he ultimately screened Moose on the decisive goal?
It’s only 8 games, but this is more than just a soph slump, he’s just not a first pairing guy. I think he’s a very good #3 guy for us, but they need to get him off the top pairing.
He will attack the net and is not afraid to throw his 5’ 7” frame into the line of fire. Kozlov just won’t do that, end of story
I agree that he needs to get a shot. That’s something else to be accomplished in this build year. See if Sterling can be a winger for us going forward.
By Russian
October 27, 2008 3:03 PM | Link to this
Interesting Idea to replase Slava from second line and put Sterling there. I agree to give Sterling chanse to show Off at Tuesday. I am not agree to break our First line. If AJ make lines like that at Tuesday I will be more than happy:
Kovy-White-Little
Armi-Crush-Streling
Slava-Reasoner-Williams
Throburn-Slater-Perrin (Boulton)
D-man are kind of play OK now. I do not like Schnider’s mistakes. He has to be much better for Veteran.
By Brendan
October 27, 2008 3:15 PM | Link to this
Bob, I wonder what the Red Wings would have given us for Hossa in June 2007, prior to the draft? Keep in mind, they’d just been ousted by the Ducks in the CF. When we moved Hossa to Pittsburgh, at the February 2008 trade deadline, we wound up with the 29th pick in the 2008 draft. Had we insisted on a pair of 1st rounders back in 2007, we still could have selected Leveille, more than likely, at pick #30, which is where the Red Wings wound up in 2008.
Of course, I doubt Thrashers fans would have been placated moving Hossa for draft picks, even 1st rounders. They wanted players. And I don’t know that they would have sent us Filppula and so forth. But it does make me wonder … if Hossa had just told the Thrashers, “Look, I’m not going to re-sign here. I’ll report to camp because my contract stipulates it, and I’ll play out my contract, which I signed to play in Ottawa, because I’m obligated, but I’d like to be traded to Detroit,” what might have changed. Maybe it would have changed nothing? I’m not excited about Red Wing draft picks when the team nearly wins the President’s Trophy on an annual basis. I’d be far more interested in Red Wing prospects. But Detroit’s not stupid. They knew they could get Hossa out on the open market without giving up anything. Which is precisely what happened.
Of course, maybe Hossa did convey these sentiments and Waddell just thought, “If I don’t dress an Opening Night banner raising ceremony with Marian Hossa in the lineup, I’ll wind up with my head on a spike.”
By Sara
October 27, 2008 3:32 PM | Link to this
Brendan I don’t think Hossa was that forthcoming, at least not back in 2007. I don’t think he actually said to Waddell or anyone in the organization “I am absolutely not going to re-sign” until sometime in 2008. However I also think it was made quite clear he wanted to go to Detroit - they knew it, Hossa knew it. I’m sure Waddell knew it - he just didn’t care. He was going to take the highest offer for Hossa and be damned with where he sent him. It just happened to be Hossa’s luck he got shipped to the Pens. He can’t complain - outside of Detroit they were the best team. And Detroit wouldn’t pony up anyway. Waddell said at the THM last season he asked for Filppula from Detroit and no dice.
It’s all water under the bridge really and I think we came out fine in the deal. If I were Pittsburgh I’d be ticked - granted he helped get them to the SCF but they lost and now have nothing to show for it in the end - no Hossa, no Army, no Crush, no Esposito, no draft pick. And even if those assets aren’t the greatest ever - they were still assets the Pens could have traded elsewhere for something more substantial and longer-lasting than a rental. So sad.
By Bob
October 27, 2008 3:54 PM | Link to this
Bob, I wonder what the Red Wings would have given us for Hossa in June 2007
Yep, and as you and I talked about it at that time, it was obvious to us (and to anyone with a half a brain that looks objectively at this club) that Hoss was out of here. I’m sure he told Waddell as much, it was quite plain he was not going to re-sign here.
What we got from the Pens at deadline was ok for a deadline deal. Hopefully Esposito turns it around or that draft choice turns into a player and it turns that deal into more than just ok for us.
But don’t limit it to just about what Detroit would have given us, Hoss didn’t have a no trade clause. Waddell could’ve opened up the bidding to the league, and the price certainly would have been higher with clubs knowing they got the full year out of him, not just a deadline rental.
By 7th Ave & 32nd St
October 27, 2008 4:14 PM | Link to this
LETS GO RANGERS!
By Smoothie
October 27, 2008 4:32 PM | Link to this
*If AJ make lines like that at Tuesday I will be more than happy:
Kovy-White-Little
Armi-Crush-Streling
Slava-Reasoner-Williams
Throburn-Slater-Perrin (Boulton)
D-man are kind of play OK now. I do not like Schnider’s mistakes. He has to be much better for Veteran.*
Russian — I can live with those bottom two lines for now assuming it gives Sterling a bona fide chance to stay on the top 2 lines. The Perrin \ Slater \ Thorby line is particularly interesting because Perrin might be able to do more damage working against the other team’s 4th or 3rd line as opposed to playing more of a “checking line” role that plays against other team’s 1st or 2nd lines.
By polskidawg
October 27, 2008 5:57 PM | Link to this
‘Yep, and as you and I talked about it at that time, it was obvious to us (and to anyone with a half a brain that looks objectively at this club) that Hoss was out of here.’ - “Bob”, as a man with half a ‘working’ brain, it was quite obvious. I would concur with your other thoughts on the situation.
‘(It’s easy for me to say that from my work PC, but anyone who stands up to all 6’9 of Chara has cojones the size of basketballs)’ - “ranallo10 (in AT)”, I believe that man’s name was DAN SNYDER when Chara was with Ottawa.
By Brendan
October 27, 2008 6:19 PM | Link to this
Sara and Bob, good discussion. I wonder if this touches a bit on a topic at Knobler’s blog about how Waddell was holding accountable those who he felt responsible for the 2007 playoff/2008 season results. We talked about players who aren’t here anymore. Specifically, underperforming veterans.
Now, I’m sure, as Knobler pointed out, that Waddell actually WANTED to re-sign Hossa. But when it became CLEAR that he couldn’t, perhaps Waddell’s “parting shot” was … “Well then, Marian, I won’t trade you prior to the season, like you want me to. I’m going to make you stayyyyy. That’s your punishment for disappearing in the playoffs. I’ll keep you here ‘til the February deadline, then collect my assets.”
I said, “perhaps.” Not definitely. And maybe Waddell was actually pleased with Hossa’s playoff performance. As I recall, Waddell called out Kozlov and Belanger, while excusing Hossa’s performance. More specifically, Waddell said, “If you go back and look at it, Hossa wasn’t really to blame.” Several of us shook our heads and figured the comment to be pandering, related to possibly re-signing Hossa.
If you’re Waddell, aren’t you more than just a little bit “mad” about the 2007 results? Think about it, folks. Hossa had one (1) point and was -6 in the playoffs, with the word “no show” hanging about his neck. And the sweep occurs AFTER you mortgaged the future a bit in dishing Coburn to the Flyers for Zhitnik and Alex Bourret to the NYR for Dupuis. Not to mention what ultimately turned out to be a 1st, 2nd, and 3rd round pick to the Blues for renting Keith Tkachuk, and dropping Vishnevski to the Predators for Eric Belanger, who refused to re-sign with Atlanta after the 2007 playoffs ended.
I guess what I was trying to say was … I can understand it if Waddell was miffed. He trusted certain players to stand and deliver. And it didn’t happen. I’m, in no way, excusing Waddell. He’s the GM. He’s accountable for results. Or, he’s supposed to be accountable for results, along with the Head Coach. In the end, the person held account was Hartley. And well, Hartley did make his fair share of gaffes. Waddell has remained on and is trying to make the best of a fresh, new start.
Vis-a-vis Hossa, Bob is correct that Waddell could have shopped Hossa, league-wide, to the highest bidder, prior to the commenecement of the season. A whole year of Hossa is more attractive than merely “renting” him at the deadline. But I do suspect teams would have been hesitant to give up a lot, unless Hossa conveyed a serious interest in re-signing with that team. But my question was more geared towards Detroit, since that’s where he ultimately wound up going. I wonder what Detroit would have given us, if Waddell could have pulled off that deal. Maybe the answer really is, “no deal was possible.” Detroit knew they’d get Hossa for nothing, on the open market. And, I suppose, if Waddell had really wanted to punish Hossa, he could have traded him to Columbus, or some other place where Hossa had no absolutely no interest. Although, he probably would have wound up on Nash’s line, or playing with Zherdev.
Bygones, indeed.
By ranallo10 (in AT)
October 28, 2008 6:16 AM | Link to this
My assumption has always been that Waddell truly believed the team would rebound, and Hossa would be convinced to stay in Atlanta. Clearly that didn’t work out as Waddell may/may not have intended, but it appeared to me that he was hopeful it would. Based on that apparent hope, I also assumed that meant he and Winter (Hossa’s agent) were having discussions about the viability of getting him to re-sign, and Hossa and his agent were showing signs towards that being a possibility.
If that’s the case, there’s no way he would’ve traded Hossa. No package in return for him is as good as Hossa himself, locked up long term.
As for the assumption that trading a superstar before the season is the best time to trade a player…how has the Gaborik situation done in regards to garnering top players and prospects from any team around the league? It’s already been reported that a GM has denied the offer to acquire Gaborik, so perhaps GMs are cautious no matter what when acquiring a player who clearly is a rental if his first team is trying to get rid of him.
Would you, as a GM, be willing to give up prospects, players and picks for one player who may or may not stay healthy through the season, may or may not perform up to their standard, and may or may not want to stay on your team afterwards. If you knew that it was relatively cheaper to wait until February, would you wait to see if your team even needs that injection of talent, or if your team is already constructed well enough to play deep into the playoffs?
Rental prices are high, no matter when you trade for the player. Some players on expiring contracts are dealt early, while others are dealt at or before the trade deadline. I don’t think there is any evidence that shows that one is better than the other, or that one is more likely to be accepted by the other GM than the other.