AJC > Sports Thrashers > Blog > Archives > 2008 > October > 05 > Entry
DEL.ICIO.USOndrej Is Not A Happy Camper
The Atlanta Journal-Constitution
Our old pal Craig Custance writes in The Sporting News that Ondrej Pavelec is not a happy camper these days. Seems he has a slight disagreement with the Thrashers’ decision to send him down to begin the season as a member of the Chicago Wolves.
According to Pavelec’s agent, Allan Walsh, the Thrashers organ-I-zation…namely Don Waddell… failed to keep a promise made to the 21-year old net minder at the time he was signed. Said Walsh, “When Ondrej signed two years ago, [Don Waddell] gave Ondrej his word. He sat there at the table and gave Ondrej his personal word that Ondrej would never be held back”.
Wow…he used his name four times in that sentence. I’m impressed.
Anyway, Walsh continued…”Last year he led Chicago to an American League championship. This year he played in the first exhibition game and then the third period on October 3 - they threw him into the game cold in the third period. That is criminal mismanagement of a young goalie”.
Waddell has yet spoken in regards to this matter…maybe we’ll get some comment from his soon. However… the way I understand it, it was known up front Pavs would play in the game Friday night against the Nashville Predators. Goalies splitting time in a preseason game is not an unusual occurrence, after all. But even if that were not the case, when you are the back-up keeper in a game…your #1 job is to be ready to go in on a moment’s notice. The switch was made during intermission…so it wasn’t like he was yanked from bed in the middle of a deep sleep.
Some youngsters might see an insertion into any preseason game as an “opportunity” to prove themselves…not a reason to whine about being thrown out onto the ice “cold”.
Oh, and I’m sorry, Mr. Walsh but… “criminal mismanagement”? That’s quite the strong accusation, wouldn’t you agree? Even though I’m not a lawyer, I’m pretty darn sure that there is no criminal statute for how a team deals with its goalie. If so…Bob Hartley would have been incarcerated back in April of 2007.
Now…I’m not one to try and crawl inside of D-Dub’s head and figure out exactly what goes on in that noggin of his…but I’d betcha dollars-to-donuts that when he does have the opportunity to have a one-on-one with Allan Walsh, he might just be inclined to say something like, “Look, Al… I’m not a big-time, hot-shot agent like you are. How-EV-er, if I were in your position I might just tell my client that the time to go pulling a stunt like this is NOT the day after allowing four goals in 20 minutes…blowing a 2-goal lead that was handed to you. That’s not exactly moving your cause…in the right direction”.
I know this seems like I’m being harsh on the kid. I certainly understand a professional athlete wanting to be in the big show and contributing to his team’s cause. However, one has to deal with such circumstances in a more mature fashion than this.
I like Pavelec…think he’s gonna be a starting keeper in the NHL one day and possible put on some great stats. Shoot, I can even accept that Ondrej might be able make an argument that he should be playing at the NHL level right now. But this is not the way to do it.
This team has a lot of issues they are facing right now and the last thing it needs on its plate is a 21-year old kid throwing a temper-tantrum because he didn’t get his way. Regardless of if he did or didn’t get some type of assurance from Waddell that he would be playing in Atlanta by this time.
The team will carry only two goalies. Kari is the starter to begin the season…everyone knows that. Moose was signed last summer to be the stabilizing force as a quality back-up…everyone knows that. Kari has been signed to a one-year deal to prove once and for all he is indeed the Thrashers number-one man ‘tween the pipes. It’s also no big secret that if he fails to do so this season he’s outa here and the red carpet will then be rolled out for young Ondrej.
His turn will come…either next year if Kari’s performance is less then stellar or, worst case, two seasons from now after Hedberg’s contract expires. He should have just gotten on the plane to Chi-town, continued to play well there…knowing that, if a need arose this year, he would be called upon as was the case last fall.
That would have been the mature thing to do. That would have been the team-player thing to do. But instead…he chose to act like a child. And his agent chose to allow his client to do so instead of advising him otherwise.
That’s too bad…on both their accounts.
All that being said…I truly hope that over the next couple of days Pavelec has a change of heart. Like I said…he’s a quality goalie and this organ-I-zation is blessed to have him along with Kari and Moose right now. I’m sure Don can cut the kid a little slack if he takes a few days to clear his head, gather his thoughts, then…once understanding the gravity of the situation…reports to Chicago with a renewed sense of purpose and drive.
If this how Ondrej ultimately decides to handle the situation…then all can be forgiven.
That’s how the maturation process works sometimes.
Comments
Commenting is now closed for this entry.
By The Joker
October 5, 2008 12:43 AM | Link to this
[Don Waddell] gave Ondrej his word
How do you know Don Waddell is lying?
His lips are moving.
A beverage at a Thrashers game, $3.00 or more.
The price of a Thrashers ticket, $10.00 or more.
The value of Don Waddell’s word, worthless.
By LAC
October 5, 2008 12:53 AM | Link to this
Remember these words from The LIAR…
Zit is going to be a positive force on our defense this coming season… 2 weeks later Bought Out.
Anyone, I mean ANYONE, including don’s
1 squeeze SARA, who believes anything this b******* says is simply living in never never land.Great preseason 1-5, outshot on a regular basis, no defense and well, no wins except one.
We have sunk at drydock this season…
Let’s HOPE waddell is fired after 6 games this season, we have had to endure more than enough of this SOB !
By R. Stroz
October 5, 2008 1:19 AM | Link to this
I don’t remember any Atlanta Flames wanting out of Atlanta for the following reasons: to play for a playoff contender (mainly because they made the playoffs 6 of 8 years), because Atlanta wasn’t a hockey town, or the general manager was a pathological liar.
So why do so many Thrashers want out?
Survey says the number one answer is, pathetic general manager
The number two answer is, pathetic owners.
By 12345
October 5, 2008 3:23 AM | Link to this
Flames players loved it here. Cousins was not that bad an owner, he was not a good businessman as it turned out. In the end it caught up with him…
But this group that owns the Thashers and Hawks are, well what words can you use over and over to explain how bad and dishonest they are. They lie about everything and b*** at the fans, then expect us to go see a crap cheap team lose lose lose… This team looks worse than last season’s !
What do we do ? And Don Waddell, what can anyone say good about him, Nothing at all. He is a career loser and will always be in the World of the NHL. All other GM’s know he is a joke and marvel at how he keeps his job. Not one single professional sports team out there in any League would keep a guy like him around for more than a couple of years ?
He can’t cut the mustard, he has never once made the correct moves to make this team a winner… Cliff Fletcher sure did he was The Best, but like R.Stroz said He is a pathological liar of the highest order.
This team is going nowhere this season except down the drain, How many of you people out there are willing to bet he stays after another bomb season… He should have been fired years ago and we would be a much better team if he had !
By Sara
October 5, 2008 7:27 AM | Link to this
You guys are kidding right? The agent’s words were “Don Waddell made a promise not to hold Ondrej back.” How has Waddell violated that promise? Pavs wasn’t going to play up here this season - that was apparent when Kari and Moose BOTH got re-signed. Since when did spending two seasons in the AHL as the starting goalie qualify as being held back?
At this point, what is best for the TEAM is to focus on which forwards and defensemen are going to make the final roster. Which means keeping an extra or two in those categories, not in goal when that decision has already been made.
As Rawhide pointed out, Pavs was given notice he was going in - I had looked at that as Anderson trying to give Pavs a bit more time playing against NHL players. As opposed to throwing him to the wolves. He should be shutting his mouth, continue going about his business, play his tail off this season, and bide his time. What has he got to complain about? The one guy standing between him and a starting position on an NHL team is on a one year contract. Pavs is a young kid and I can give him a pass on this if it is the last time I see a temper tantrum like this. His agent however should know better. If this is what we have to look forward to with this kid, I don’t care if he’s the second coming of Roy, his butt can hit the road right now. We’ve had enough poisons in that lockerroom, we don’t need another one. There is no place in professional sports for unprofessionals.
And LAC I learned a long time ago to be careful about speculating on things of which I do not have first-hand knowledge. I surely don’t make character decisions (much less assassinations) on people based on limited knowledge. I also do not let personal vendettas color my judgment to the point I make ridiculous assumptions or completely ignore facts if they do not fit that vendetta. You, however, consistently display the maturity and rationality of a 12 year old. To put it simply in monosyllabic words - grow up.
By ranallo10 (in AT)
October 5, 2008 8:34 AM | Link to this
If Pavelec and his agent feel this is “holding his development back”, I can’t imagine what Al Montoya or Jonathan Bernier’s agents think.
Both goalies, drafted before Pavelec. Both goalies drafted higher than Pavelec. Both goalies have had limited NHL games, like Pavelec. And guess what…neither of those goalies nor their agents are going to the press with complaints about being underutilized.
His agent has screwed any future scenarios Pavelec could’ve been part of. Complaining to the press in that manner kills his trade value, so Atlanta doesn’t have to trade him for crap in return. He’s under contract, so playing in Russia is his only option, which means he’s not going to be allowed to play in the NHL any time soon (for breaking his contract), nor in International competitions.
This agent, though very possibly in the right with his complaint, went about this ALL wrong. B*** to Waddell, not a newspaper. If it doesn’t work, demand a trade, don’t talk about it to A NEWSPAPER.
How hard is it to act like a grown-up nowadays?? People like Allan Walsh make it seem like acting like an adult is harder than keeping a 2-goal lead…
OOPS.
By ben
October 5, 2008 8:49 AM | Link to this
Hi folks,
Do any of the one-note D-WAD haters have anything else to say? The T-Birds have yet to play 1 game in the standings, and yet here you all are up one side and back down the other about how D-WAD is nothing more than a drunken monkey (racial epithet NOT INTENDED) with darts and a board. Now before there is the cry of “Havoc!” and people let the dogs of war slip for what some might see as a Waddell apology, this is not. In this blog and others I spent years railing against D-WAD. Then, sometime shortly after the Hossa trade that sent a couple of glorified third-liners to The City of Trees, a thing occured to me.
THIS IS E N T E R T A I N M E N T !
In other words, not to be taken as a serious persuit of one’s time. If watching the Atlanta entry in the National Hockey League upsets and disturbs you that much, then stop watching! I have put my money where my mouth is as far as the Braves are concerned.
I do think this team shall be here for the foreseeable future. If only because Atlanta has 5.1 million people living in it and the NHL seems bent on making this work in the South. As MARTA becomes more of an option for people, more people will come. Why? Because the Train literally stops right at Phillips, making it a legit entertainment option.
Hossa wasn’t the first star to leave Atlanta, nor will he be the last. Don Waddell will eventually leave, and then we get someone else who might be better at drafting in the later rounds of the draft.
Either way, keep your collective shirt on, and enjoy the greatest game you can play standing up.
By B. Thenet
October 5, 2008 8:56 AM | Link to this
The Falconer has made a good point about this, DW has gone on record that an NHL team has made a big offer for Pavelec recently.
Now just days later, when Pavelec has been demoted as he and his agent surely assumed he would be when Hedberg and Lehtonen were signed to one way contracts., his agent is demanding a trade,
If his agent has has any recent contact with the team that made the trade request for Pavelec that DW turned down, he should be banned from representing NHL players for several years.
By the way, LOL at all the DW haters taking the side of a sleazy agent who should have realized this situation was coming, as all of us did when the Thrashers signed their two goaltenders this summer. You guys will take a shot at DW whenever you can, for the flimsiest of reasons.
By Sage of Bluesland
October 5, 2008 9:25 AM | Link to this
Just another episode in the continuing joke figuratively known as “Blueland”…
This is what YOU pay for! I’m more than thankful I stopped subsidizing the utter buffoonery and incompetence going on…
You should stop, too. That is the ONLY way things will ever get better here.
By ranallo10 (in AT)
October 5, 2008 10:05 AM | Link to this
Seriously…Williams is injured, and Little got injured during the St. Louis game.
That sucks…that’s two top 6 players injured in a meaningless preseason game.
Let’s just hope it’s not serious for either player.
By ranallo10 (in AT)
October 5, 2008 10:12 AM | Link to this
Oh by the way, the Thrashers went 5-2 last preseason and started the season 0-6.
Preseason means relatively jack. If they start 0-6, then you’ve got a good reason to complain.
By Nikita
October 5, 2008 10:20 AM | Link to this
Oh, man, that sucks. Seriously, the entire issue with Williams is health — hope its not serious, because if he’s not healthy his acquisition will have been a bad move.
As for Pavelec, what a dumbass. His agent, that is. Pavs may be more or less ready, but it’s perfectly appropriate to hold him in reserve behind much better goalie and a cooler on his way to the coaching staff.
By Nikita
October 5, 2008 10:23 AM | Link to this
Also, in other prospect news, why would we release someone at this point? Is it an age and contract thing?
By ranallo10 (in AT)
October 5, 2008 10:50 AM | Link to this
Age, and he had an AHL contract with Chicago to my understanding. Rivers is 31/32 I believe…far from being a prospect.
By Sara
October 5, 2008 11:03 AM | Link to this
Ranallo even if they go 0-6 I’m not sure that’s reason to complain. It’s not desired results of course, but in the grand scheme of things, to me it is how they look and play in each game versus the results that matter. And Anderson has got to tell the guys that. My concern is this 1-5 preseason record is putting that little nugget in the back of some players’ heads of - oh crap, here we go again. That’s a self-defeating (and self-fulfilling) mindset - we saw that last year and in other years before. Coach must get that pressure off of them for right now.
They need to focus solely on the fundamentals of their game and implementing and sticking to the system. The wins will follow. For me it isn’t about evaluating the record, it’s evaluating what each player is doing (or not doing), how the lines are functioning, how the PP and PK are functioning, and if we see improvement in all of those areas over time or necessary adjustments from the coaching staff when the system/line/players are not improving. It’s a work in process and that is the correct view IMO, not getting crabby because the team isn’t lighting up the rest of the league from day one.
By Maali
October 5, 2008 11:11 AM | Link to this
LMAO @ the joker!
for one, i don’t think this is really something pavs asked for or orchestrated. i can see him calling his agent and b*** about it, but i just have a hard time accepting this as fully his decision.
i’m hoping this will turn into waddell’s firing.
By ranallo10 (in AT)
October 5, 2008 11:22 AM | Link to this
Sara — I agree, and I’m of the same mindset. I have no illusions of playoff hockey in Atlanta come 2009, but I would like to know that the players like Enstrom, Bogosian, Little and whatever other AHL player makes the roster (Crabb, Hoffman, Sterling, Stuart, etc) are progressing as expected, and becoming solid additions to the NHL club.
In my view the wins will come as the players settle in, and become accustomed to eachother. If the mindset of the players can stay focused on improvement, and not get clouded by immediate gains like a win/loss, I think this team could develop well for next season.
I’m sure many Chicago fans were upset with how the team played the last few seasons, but their hard times and hard work could potentially come to fruition this season with a promising group of developed prospects and some FA additions to bolster the squad. If we can follow the Chicago or Pittsburgh plan and develop our youth to become a playoff caliber squad, I’ll be a content fan.
By Sage of Bluesland
October 5, 2008 11:59 AM | Link to this
Hey, I think this next “Five-Year Plan” will really, really make us proud of our team…Rah-Rah!!!…Go Team!!!
(Do some of ya’ll even read what you are writing?! When I need a laugh, I know where to come first…Thanks, Ranallo and the sheep!)
By ranallo10 (in AT)
October 5, 2008 12:11 PM | Link to this
Anytime Sage…I’m glad we can bring some joy to your clearly bleak and depressing life.
For Christmas, I’m getting you a stuffed sheep. I hope you enjoy that too.
By five_hole
October 5, 2008 12:55 PM | Link to this
With regards to Williams, this is the big question mark. Is he an iron man or one made of glass?
With regards to Ondrej Pavelic, would you like a little cheese with that whine? What has he done this preseason to deserve to stick here? John Anderson in the THM said the guys who play the best will make the team, regardless of how much they make. If you take John at his word, he made the decision that Ondrej was not playing the best in net, and after you give up 4 goals in a period, I’d say John has some documentation for his decision. You want to play here? Stand on your head and stone the opposition. Don’t give the coach a reason to send you down.
By polskidawg
October 5, 2008 1:00 PM | Link to this
12345 “Flames players loved it here. Cousins was not that bad an owner, he was not a good businessman as it turned out. In the end it caught up with him…” - I beg to differ with your assessment of Mr. Cousins - he is and was a exceptional business man.
Furman Bisher spelled out many of the reasons why he sold the Flames, including lack of support from the NHL old good boys club, which he was not part of.
At best (or worst), Mr. Cousins underestimated the investment and costs year-to-year. He was a fine owner, one that players still love.
Rawhide - I think you know that I’m not a DW fan, but this situation smacks of a agent directing, if not creating the issue. I think its interesting that all of the “quotes” come only from the agent. Holly Gunning makes a good point or two about Al on the Thrashers Prospect Annex.
By Sara
October 5, 2008 1:13 PM | Link to this
five-hole to play devil’s advocate - technically speaking Ondrej back-stopped the only win the team had in the preseason. So if Anderson is truly going on merit alone, Ondrej should have gotten a job, at least over Moose, potentially over Kari. The reality is this is supposedly Kari’s make or break year and in order to give him a fair “last chance” he has to play..a lot. So if you bring up Pavs, then he either sits most of the time (which does his development no good) or he plays over Kari (which could be considered a valid argument, let the best player play). Problem with situation number two is it doesn’t necessarily give Anderson or Waddell the best chance of evaluating Kari, nor does it do anything to bolster his potential trade value necessarily. He’s got to at least appear adequate for some other team to want to fool with him and be willing to give us more than garbage in return.
Regardless, none of it justifies a temper tantrum and I think polskidawg is right that this reeks all over of Pavs’ agent getting involved. If Pavs is smart, he’ll fire the agent, apologize to Waddell and Anderson, get his tail in Chicago, and shut up and play.
By Alan
October 5, 2008 2:25 PM | Link to this
If Pavs is smart, he’ll fire the agent, apologize to Waddell and Anderson, get his tail in Chicago, and shut up and play.
I was going to say something about this situation, but seriously, this line sums it all up.
I wonder what Kari and Johan have to say about it, and if they’ve said anything to Pavs about the situation.
By Bob
October 5, 2008 3:15 PM | Link to this
suprise, suprise. More turmoil amongst the players. When it stinks at the top, it always, without fail permeates the rest of the organ-I-zation.
This club will just keep floundering until meaningful changes are made at the top.
By glovesave29
October 5, 2008 4:23 PM | Link to this
Polskidog - you and Furman cannot be more wrong. Cousins was arrogant and thought he was above changes in the economy…for both Cousins Properties and the Flames. He thought his company was recession proof and failed to plan for such, and he failed to take the WHA’s effects on player salaries seriously. Mr. Cousins made arrogant remarks saying that the team would not stay in Atlanta if he were not the owner. He passed on offers to sell the team to Glenn Ford, Coca-Cola and Turner Properties. He is thought of well by the players because he had an excellent GM, Cliff Fletcher working for him. Cliff himself said Atlanta did not deserve to lose the Flames. I take his informed postion high above that of Furman Bisher…
By Sage of Bluesland
October 5, 2008 4:43 PM | Link to this
We’ll see if any of the Sunshine Crew changes their opinion when the Rah-Rah Minor Leaguer and his “system” fails miserably at the big-boy level…
Is it the groceries? Is it the cook? What pitiful excuses will make their way onto this blog? What will the wittle fwag-wavers come up with next?
It almost makes me giddy for the season!
By five_hole
October 5, 2008 5:01 PM | Link to this
Sara I have no problem with the agent doing what he’s doing. He’s trying to make the case for his client to be in the big leagues. That’s doing his job. If I’m Waddell, I don’t let agents dictate the makeup of my team. That’s a bad policy. So once again, DW has put himself between a rock and a hard place.
This is going to be a really unpopular statement on the blog. If it had been up to me (I know I should have been the GM), I wouldn’t have resigned Hedberg, and our goalies would have been Kari and Ondrej. Sorry, but there it is. I know the Moose is supposed to be a great guy in the locker room, but I didn’t see anything in his play at the end of last season to make me want to resign him. His play this preseason hasn’t been exactly spectacular, either.
I think the presence of a kid like Ondrej would push Kari more than a veteran like Johann. I’m sure Kari isn’t afraid of Johann taking the starting job away, but a kid like Ondrej? I believe that competition makes us stronger.
By stendec
October 5, 2008 5:12 PM | Link to this
Sori Letemin is the biggest fraud in professional sports! This braindead Finn could not stop a beach ball in net. Thrashers send goalie down? Who the Hell is Kari Lehtonen sleeping with to STAY on this team? Waddell? Kick this oxygen waste the Hell out of Atlanta along with Keith “No Tackle” Brooking. Get ready stat guys and gals! The only one of his which means a damn thing is wins opposed to losses. Complete FAILURE in those stats! Falcons won. Thrashers doomed to lose with untalrnted netminder!
By ranallo10 (in AT)
October 5, 2008 5:24 PM | Link to this
Sage — It’s good to know you get giddy over sheep…disturbing, but good to know none-the-less.
Go find a farm.
Bob — How would a better GM have handled the Pavelec situation? You make it sound like he was mismanaged, due to Waddell’s incompetence, and now wants out. Please, explain how it would’ve been different if he had been in Anaheim, for example.
five_hole — I am truly indecisive about having Pavelec as a backup. I’m a firm believer that a quality netminder in the NHL needs to be developed, and is very rarely blessed with the talents to shine at the NHL level. Pavelec is a good goaltender, but in my eyes he’s no Carey “Second Coming” Price…which means he’s net ready now to take the reigns as an NHL goalie. So, as a backup, how many meaningful games would he play in, that would help develop him at the NHL level?
I don’t honestly know what the answer is…I can give examples of goalie coddling leading to a good netminder (Leclaire), or I can give an example of a backup earning his stripes as a starter after a few years backing up a good netminder (Bryzgalov, Toskala). Of course, there’s always the example of a goalie rushed to the NHL (Blackburn, Raycroft, Ward, Emery).
So, in my opinion the best way to develop a goalie talent is to give him time as a number 1, wherever he fits in the system. In this system he is not currently better than Lehtonen, so he should be starting in Chicago (again, in my opinion). Thus, Hedberg’s re-signing not only helps develop Lehtonen, but also helps develop Pavelec by giving him quality minutes at the AHL level, instead of mop-up minutes in the NHL.
By Big Bill
October 5, 2008 6:03 PM | Link to this
sara, what you and DON got goin on HUH
You act more in line of a nobody wanting to be a somebody but one who cannot figure a way to accomplish that feat.
You need to look at ALL the facts here and evaluate them as they are… NOT as you wish they were, you once again… show all of us you know little about the sport and less about knowledgable fans who want a winner and realize what you squeeze don waddell has done to ruin NHL hockey in this city… Just go away sara, you offer little to the discussion with your feeble dreams…
By glovesave29
October 5, 2008 6:33 PM | Link to this
Stendec, you are letting your feelings about Lehtonen get in the way of the facts. He is and deserves to be the goalie on this team. A vast majority of other teams would also have him be the #1. The .912 SV% last year was good for 12th in the league…on a team that gave up more shots than anyone. On a team that barely had what anyone could call a defense. Look at some great goalies that are either recently in, or are in line for the HOF…Martin Brodeur has had 8 seasons with a lower SV% (with a stifling defense in front of him to boot), Patrick Roy has 9 seasons with a lower SV%…and the finest money goalie of our generation…Grant Fuhr NEVER had a season with that high of a SV%.
Lehtonen needs to continue to improve…true. But on a team filled with holes, Kari is not really one of the problems. He is not a leader like the 3 mentioned above, but that is not his personality…
As for Ondrej…being a starter in Chicago for 50+ games is much more beneficial for his development than 12-15 as a backup in Atlanta. There is nothing in practice that can replicate game situations. The quickest way for him to improve is to play A LOT of hockey.
By Barry
October 5, 2008 7:44 PM | Link to this
I just have this response to all of this. Kari has been basically told he will be given the starts job to try and prove he do it. Anderson has even said he would like Kari to start and play 60 games. Moose stated he wanted to come back and help turn things around. Moose signs a one year deal. What makes Pavelec and his agent even think that either one of those is going to be either released or traded??? Pavelec and his agent need to use common sense. Pavelec was horrible when he came into the game Friday night. If he wants to play backup role then he needs to be able to come into the game at a moments notice and battle to give his team a chance.
By kracker
October 5, 2008 7:57 PM | Link to this
Barry you are right in youe assessments…except Moose signed for two years.
By Rawhide
October 5, 2008 8:44 PM | Link to this
I saw this on the Atlanta Thrashers Message Boards today…it was posted by “Toxostoma Rufum”. The link takes you to a site that advocates the return of an NHL team to Winnipeg. It lists quotes from several sources.
The quote of interest here comes from Allan Walsh, Pavelec’s agent, about eight down that states the following:
“And no matter what kind of game we get when it comes back, it’s not going to be the same,” hockey agent Walsh told the Los Angeles Times in January. “Florida, Atlanta, Nashville, Anaheim, Carolina - those markets are d-e-a-d dead. Put a fork in ‘em, they’re done.”
So…if this quote is accurate and he feels Atlanta is a “dead” hockey market…do you feel this attitude is behind the current situation with his client, Ondrej Pavelec?
By Nikita
October 5, 2008 9:31 PM | Link to this
Who the Hell is Kari Lehtonen sleeping with to STAY on this team?
Um, that’d be me. Don’t mess with me, stendec.
By stendec
October 5, 2008 9:48 PM | Link to this
To all Kari Lehtonen apologists: Another season of excuses, soft goals, exuses, monkey pucks and excuses! Yes, excuses is utilized more than once. Sori Letemin has one for every goal he has ever surrendered! Glad apologists demand nor expect nothing more. God help us!
By The Joker
October 5, 2008 10:11 PM | Link to this
By Nikita
October 5, 2008 9:31 PM | Link to this
Who the Hell is Kari Lehtonen sleeping with to STAY on this team?
Um, that’d be me. Don’t mess with me, stendec.
Nikita - Are you trying to make Exelby jealous?
By R. Stroz
October 5, 2008 11:04 PM | Link to this
Two Solutions for One Problem
1) Pavs needs a new agent that doesn’t have his head up Winnipeg’s a$$
2) Waddell needs to tell the truth or shut the heck up.
By Sara
October 6, 2008 7:12 AM | Link to this
Rawhide I think that statement in the article really does support the theory that the agent is the one behind this.
This isn’t just about what Waddell may or may not have said. (For those of you jumping on the “this is all Waddell’s fault” theme - as usual - those of us who look at things a bit more objectively will note that as of yet no one has even heard Waddell’s side of this issue. Some of you might prefer to make rash judgment calls without knowing all the facts but rational people prefer a different approach.) Regardless of what Waddell said or didn’t say, for an agent to tell a young, developing player who has not established himself in the NHL to go home and not report to his assignment is unprofessional, irresponsible, and negligent of their fiduciary duties. This does nothing to further Ondrej’s career and can only be construed as a negative.
And Big Bill, trust me, if I was gettin’ it on with someone in the organization, it would be one of the hot young studs on the team, not the 50-something GM. Nice guy, very funny, but ewwww.
By ranallo10 (in AT)
October 6, 2008 7:19 AM | Link to this
Stroz — I think we all agree that sometimes Waddell is an oft victim of GM speak. However, in retrospect how would you recommend he have handled the situation regarding Pavelec.
Without his promise to never hold back Pavelec, the goalie would’ve not signed a contract with Atlanta and re-entered the draft. No compensation is given for that loss, to my knowledge (like the Wheeler situation in Phoenix).
Once Pavelec signed, did you see anything that Waddell did that truly hampered Pavelec’s development?
I’ll have to agree with glovesave and my close friend dj when they say that a goalie needs to face lots of in-game action and not practice or simulated games in order to properly develop. I agree with them because both are goalies…I think they know a bit more about the development of a hockey goalie than I do.
Anyways, I’m not trying to pick anything with you, but I’m curious how you would’ve liked Waddell to have done things differently. If he shuts up, Pavelec doesn’t sign. If he plays Pavelec as a backup, he gets poorly developed. So really the only solution in my mind is that Pavelec is given the reigns in the NHL, and I don’t know many people other than stendec that feel Pavelec is a better goalie and more dependable than Lehtonen at the NHL level. Maybe eventually he will be (big maybe), but I don’t feel he is just yet.
By five_hole
October 6, 2008 8:07 AM | Link to this
Nikita That gives a whole new meaning to “He shoots - he SCORES”.
By ranallo10 (in AT)
October 6, 2008 8:25 AM | Link to this
five_hole — Similar meaning, just different equipment.
By Nikita
October 6, 2008 9:17 AM | Link to this
Lawdy, everyone — that was DEFINITELY a joke. Though if it took a little girlie action to get Kari’s head consistently in the game, I think I could possibly make the sacrifice…if properly fortified beforehand with alcohol. Somehow I don’t think that’s what motivates him.
As for Pavs, obviously Waddell can’t blink — if he does the whole team wiill mutiny merely because they want to test the market and they think they aren’t being treated equally. But if I were him I’d probably trade Pavelec later in the season — we have enough prima donnas without taking orders from someone barely old enough to drink and barely good enough to sustain an NHL team. Give him the old Dupuis treatment.
By R. Stroz
October 6, 2008 9:32 AM | Link to this
ranallo10 - As I said earlier the problem is twofold. First, Pavs agent is obviously causing problems.
However, Waddell’s doublespeak has always been a source for problems. Pavs did get to play “in the show” last season and performed relatively well. Pavs probably thinks he is ready for “the show” and his idiot agent is flaming the fire.
If Waddell would just tell the brutal truth, Waddell would have some credibility. In retrospect, Waddell could have told Pavs he would be in the NHL by age 22 if he succeeded in the AHL, or some other more concrete definition.
Unfortunately, Waddell’s perpetual lying, or attempts to try to smooth everything over depepending on your point of view, has undermined his credibility as a GM and the organization as a whole.
In other words, when Waddell speaks, no one believes him, and even worse, agents and players are exploiting this fact. How can a GM effectively operate under those circumstances?
In conclusion, Pavs agent is an a$$; however, Waddell opened the tiolet lid.
By Stan Drulia
October 6, 2008 9:37 AM | Link to this
Sage of Blueland - you are a total D-bag. Why don’t you go jump on the Red Wings message board and get off of ours. You sound like a 16-year old who thinks that they are really smart because they finally finished an entire Stephen King novel. You are a loser.
By R. Stroz
October 6, 2008 9:42 AM | Link to this
Nikita - Pavs agent is also Dupuis agent.
As far as trades, here’s my suggestion:
Ottawa needs a goalie and Kovy needs a real #1 center, so here it goes, Pavs plus either Crusher, Little, or Esposito for Spezza.
By glovesave29
October 6, 2008 9:57 AM | Link to this
Stendec…I just gave you FACTS. How exactly am I an apologist? You obviously have a grudge against Kari - so say so. You will not like him no matter what he does…don’t get on us who think he is a perfectly good keeper and on a team with many, many problems he is not one of them.
I would like to hear some good reasoning as to why we need to run with Ondrej this year…he is completely unproven. I DO think he will be an excellent NHL goalie, but he is not there yet. He needs playing time, and he can only be offered that in Chicago. If this season goes south fast, and we can trade off some assets like Moose, then we consider that. But for now, Ondrej is best served as a member of the Wolves.
By ranallo10 (in AT)
October 6, 2008 9:58 AM | Link to this
Stroz — Had Waddell made that statement “you’d be in the NHL by age 22” and Pavelec underperformed, wouldn’t we be in the same boat? Waddell would’ve made some sort of statement that he’s being held over the coals for, and an assclown agent who seems to despise the Atlanta market (“D-E-A-D”) would’ve stated “Waddell said Ondrej would be in the NHL as soon as Ondrej turned 22. Ondrej turned 22 last night and has only played 4 games in the NHL, so Ondrej has other options for whatever is best for Ondrej’s career in Ondrej Ondrej Russia Ondrej Ondrej not report Ondrej demand Trade. Ondrej.”
The agent’s an assclown, that we can agree upon. Waddell does tend to say things that he has to ultimately eat crow over, that we can agree upon as well.
Where I guess we don’t see things eye-to-eye is that it’s Waddell’s JOB to sit there and make everything look peachy keen, tell the agents and their players what it takes to get them to sign a contract, and do the things every other GM in the NHL does on a daily basis. I understand you dislike the guy, but I don’t see how Pavelec has been mismanaged in any form of the word, up to this point.
This year would’ve been his second season as a professional hockey player. I don’t know many second year pros that have “earned” their way to the big show before the age of 21 (Price is the only that comes to mind, maybe Fleury). Is Pavelec the next greatest thing, or a solid goaltender prospect that needs to better prove he’s ready for the NHL level?
The only role he could have on this team, unless something were to happen to the obvious #1 goalie on the roster, is a backup goaltending role. He couldn’t hold a 2 goal lead as a backup in his latest NHL caliber game. The preseason is a fine barometer to see where your talent stacks up against other NHL talent, and Pavelec did well in the one game he started…against other AHL talent prospects. Against NHL talented players, he failed miserably (obviously a lot of that blame can be placed on the defense, but that same defense got him a 2 goal lead with one period to play).
So, he’s got a Calder Cup on his resume, a few injury call-up games (where his numbers were worse than Lehtonen’s) and a few junior league accolades. His resume is strong, but not strong enough to be demanding a trade or threatening to leave for Russia.
By R. Stroz
October 6, 2008 10:26 AM | Link to this
ranallo10 - It’s the totality of Waddell’s doublespeak that opened the door. If Waddell didn’t chew on his shoe for a variety of statements such as, playoff guarantees, a few players away, building through the draft, Zhitnik is a major part of the team, Anderson isn’t the coach yet, well you get the idea, Pavs assclown agent would be laughed out of town.
I agree every GM blows a certain amount of air up everyone’s collective backsides; however, Waddell graduated to using helium a long time ago.
At this point, the Thrashers have few options but package Pavs with another player and get a real #1 center for Kovy.
In the future, DW would well advised to avoid any player with Walsh as an agent.
By The Joker
October 6, 2008 10:31 AM | Link to this
Sara - Before you hit on those young studs, you may want to get rid of that snot filled red shirt and find a blue one.
Nikita - Have you ever considered applying to assist Dateline with their “To Catch a Predator” show?
By Sara
October 6, 2008 10:40 AM | Link to this
Stroz I love ya man but you honestly think Ottawa would trade Spezza? There is no team I know of so desperate for a goalie that they would not only take on a potential problem child who is unproven, but give up one of their best players in return. Even if you did throw in a sweetener (which I think is nuts - we need Crusher and Little - even if we get a guy like Spezza as a legit first line center, we still need really good 2nd and 3rd line guys - what we’re supposed to stick with Todd White? Oy). Plus giving in to the demands of an agent is not only suicidal for Waddell, but for GMs period. That kind of power-shift can’t be allowed to happen.
Not to mention I reiterate that thus far the only person who said Waddell said anything is Walsh and it’s apparent he has ulterior motives. Maybe DW said it, maybe he didn’t - but I’d like someone else to step forward and say that besides a jerkwad agent.
By R. Stroz
October 6, 2008 10:50 AM | Link to this
Sara - Not really, unless Ottawa is extremely frustrated with Spezza’s one way play and wants to dump salary.
Now close your ears, its time to sing.
The dream, the impossible dream.
By ranallo10 (in AT)
October 6, 2008 10:56 AM | Link to this
Sara — The power shift happened when assclown agents became GMs (cough Brian Burke cough). Once an a$$, always an a$$.
Stroz — I don’t think sending Pavelec away is the only way to handle this. He’s contractually obligated to play for the Thrashers. If he breaks that contract, his rights belong to Atlanta for the foreseeable future (like Radulov with the Predators). We could hold onto his rights until he’s 40 and he can wallow away in the Czech league, back at home…or we can wait until Pavelec realizes Walsh has ulterior motives and is not acting in the goalie’s best interest, and switches to an agent who isn’t biased against teams and/or markets.
Last I checked, the American dollar was the same color in Atlanta as it is in Winnipeg…did something change? The market has no bearing upon the player’s viability to succeed, so his biases against Atlanta are not only unfounded, but also seem to be clouding his judgment when making decisions for his players.
Shipping the player off is not a viable option, in my opinion. You’re dealing from a short deck, because every other GM out there has read that Pavelec’s agent wants him out of Atlanta. So, teams aren’t willing to give up as much for a player who simply wont report to the minor-league affiliate. Secondly, you have a player who can now be perceived as a problem player, with an agent willing to stand his ground over an AHL demotion at age 21. What makes any other GM think things would be different in their city, if they don’t think Pavelec is ready for the NHL this year??
The agent’s an idiot, there’s no denying that. He’s put his client in the worst position possible as a PROSPECT in the NHL, who is currently signed to a contract with 2 years remaining before his client can reach RFA status.
I can definitely see this as a “prospect feeling he’s wronged, complaining to his agent, and agent goes apeshit” situation, but if Pavelec or his agent truly feel this is their only way to get their point across, they’re better off sitting out two seasons of North American hockey, because I would hope Waddell doesn’t buckle to their complaints and ship him off.
But you’re right, Waddell (and any other GM in the markets Walsh has deemed “dead”) would be better off hanging up the phone as soon as they see Walsh’s number on the caller ID.
By glovesave29
October 6, 2008 11:03 AM | Link to this
Ondrej needs to take a moment to consider (gulp) how Angelo Esposito is handling his demotion to the CHL…he’s taking it out on the competition. Found this little nugget of sportsnet.ca…
Hot player: Angelo Esposito, Montreal Juniors It didn’t take Angelo Esposito long to make his presence felt with his new team. The 19-year-old star picked up an assist in his first game back in junior before exploding offensively on Sunday, scoring twice and assisting on four others. Esposito is the last of five players the Juniors were waiting to return from NHL camps.
Good for him.
By Sara
October 6, 2008 11:44 AM | Link to this
glovesave sswwweeeeettttt!!!!! Exactly what the org/we were hoping to see from Espo - hope he keeps it up.
Stroz oh I hear ya - no question Spezza would be a kick-butt addition to our team - he’s a bad-a* on the ice and he’s hot (the first being more important than the second - just an FYI there). But it’s goes back to the whole top-line center issue. Most of the really good ones that are young enough to want to take on are on teams that aren’t going to give them up. I blame Pittsburgh and Tampa personally - stingy b@stards each have two - it’s not right man.
Joker actually, Schneids, Kozzie, and Williams might like the red! :p Course - they all don’t necessarily qualify as “young” but Slater does and he’s a Red Wings fan (now that I’ve given Dave one more reason to hate Jimmy…).
By Alan
October 6, 2008 12:34 PM | Link to this
Stepping away from Ondrej for a moment, check out this absolutely beautiful open ice hit on Jason Blake from last night’s Blue Jackets vs Maple Leafs match-up.
There’s an important lesson to be learned in there somewhere. I’ll let you all guess what it is ;)
By TRON
October 6, 2008 12:38 PM | Link to this
PAVELEC………..THIS YEARS HOSSA?…….??……..OR KOVALCHUK…..??……LETEMIN HAS BEEN ABSOLUTELY BRILLIANT THUS FAR………….LMAO……….PATHETIC PILE OF CRAP HE IS……………..FUNNY HOW EVERYBODY HERE WANTS TO………….LEAVE TOWN………….IF IT’S LETEMIN, LET ME KNOW…………I’LL BUY THE PANSIE A TICKET BACK TO FINLANDIA……….WOULD SHUT THESE STUPID CODDLERS UP FOR ONCE…………………LMAO……LMAO………..LMAO…………
By Alan
October 6, 2008 12:44 PM | Link to this
FUNNY HOW EVERYBODY HERE WANTS TO………….LEAVE TOWN
Can you do us all a favor here, and be the first to leave town? The rest of the folks here would truly appreciate that.
As the saying goes, “don’t let the door hit’ya where the good lord split’ya.”
By ranallo10 (in AT)
October 6, 2008 12:47 PM | Link to this
Alan — Great hit, I loved his (Tollefson’s) lateral movement before drilling Blake. What’s even better is that he then whooped up on the Toronto player who tried to defend Blake.
Good clip.
By Nikita
October 6, 2008 12:49 PM | Link to this
Pavs agent is also Dupuis agent.
That explains a lot. Good riddance to the self-proclaimed second coming of Christ “I can’t sink a shot, but I’m a top-6 forward” Dupuis, too.
Pavs gets fined if he fails to show up, correct? I doubt that’ll go on for long, especially since he and his agent won’t be able to substantiate their claims that he’s squandered/stifled where he is (other than in a routine, incidental fashion that matches his station in the NHL). But I still think he should trade him later in the season unless he wants to hump like an actual soldier and not some prima donna dressed in camo.
Have you ever considered applying to assist Dateline with their “To Catch a Predator” show?
Well, some of the Predators are pretty cute, but my heart’s in Atlanta.
By Randy
October 6, 2008 2:01 PM | Link to this
But I still think he should trade him later in the season unless he wants to hump like an actual soldier and not some prima donna dressed in camo.
i’d rather trade lehts now, before he knocks his value down, once people see how crappy he plays. hedberg was re-signed, why? pavs should kick lehts butt on the way out !!