Ice Man

By Bob

August 29, 2008 10:03 AM | Link to this

sorry to hijack, but someone has signed Meszaros to a $5m offer sheet. Is Waddell that dumb? Never mind on that, but if it was us, he’d have to give up next year’s #1 and our shot at Tavares, right?

By ranallo10 (in AT)

August 29, 2008 10:46 AM | Link to this

Perrin is a welcome addition to this roster, but I can’t shake the feeling that he would be worth more to the team on the trade blocks. But you’ve got a good point about how he would be a great leader by example to the youth of the team…it’s just a catch 22 because by having him on the roster (along with the other 4 centers) there is little room for youth.

Bob — I agree that it’d be a stupid move to offer such a large amount for any RFA, especially Meszaros. The compensation picks are not worth it in my opinion. How I break down every RFA offer is by saying “What’s the compensation? Would that be worth trading straight up for this player?” and if the compensation includes more than 1 first rounder, and the player in return is barely worth 1 first rounder, then I’d say no dice.

Meszaros is worth only one first rounder, in my opinion, and not a lottery pick. If the Thrashers have a terrible season with Meszaros, I would not want Meszaros be the reason we missed out on Tavares, Schenn, Hedman, Penner, etc.

By Alan

August 29, 2008 10:46 AM | Link to this

Rawhide - Here’s to hoping the rest of the team can follow Perrin’s lead and increase their production this season over last.

By Toby

August 29, 2008 10:52 AM | Link to this

It better not be us…We will be a lottery pick next year, and we already have a real young defensive squad. Dub already signed a younger (slightly overpaid) puck moving D with upside potential in Hainsey. Ottawa Sun is reporting Tampa has the most interest, though they currently don’t have a third round pick to give.

By Sara

August 29, 2008 10:59 AM | Link to this

Even better with Perrin - he likes it here. I got to talk to him for a bit at Casino Night last year and he was excited when he signed with ATL to come here and is still happy being here. (At least someone prefers ATL to TB.)

As for Meszaros, the draft pick compensation is too overwhelming to think Waddell would make this offer. Not to mention, where in heck would we put him? Bringing in Meszaros = less playing time for Enstrom, Bogosian, Valabik = ungood.

ranallo IIRC Waddell mentioned getting offers for Perrin - I know the Pittsburgh deal required either Perrin or Dupuis to complete (personally I think Waddell made the right choice there). But I’d rather keep him. He’s got skill - he’s a mid-tier kinda guy - and he’s not a budget buster. Putting him up isn’t likely to net us anything overly significant in return. What we lack is top-tier talent and a/a couple of mid/lower-tier guys is not going to get us that talent (well outside of someone’s fire sale but you can’t depend on those coming around too often).

By ranallo10 (in AT)

August 29, 2008 11:21 AM | Link to this

Sara — I agree, and I also recall Waddell telling us at the Town Hall Meeting (which I read, and did not attend) that it was between Perrin and Dupuis as the sweetener in the Hossa deal. I don’t think he would garner much in return straight up, or with any other mid/lower-tier players…but I think of all of the mid/lower-tier players on this roster currently, he along with White and Exelby have the most “value” to the market.

Combining one of the aforementioned with a draft pick and a prospect could net a step up offensively. Combining two or more with the same prospect and draft pick could bring a player to Atlanta that might otherwise not have come.

I agree with Brendan though, it’s never wise to trade for a player who might not want to be here…but I just think Perrin’s perceived value to the NHL is at it’s highest currently (that snazzy SH points stat is a benefit), and now would be the best time to see if anyone wants him for a slight improvement elsewhere (not a missing piece). Anyone with cap problems could look at him as a viable stop-gap with a low cap hit, and could get a pick or prospect to boot.

I don’t expect it to happen, but personally I see that as a better alternative than playing the season with the roster the way it is now. I’d prefer more youth in the lineup, not just Little or Sterling offensively (no room for others), or Bogosian and Valabik fighting over the time that one defensive opening allows.

If it cost the team Perrin to fulfill my hopeful youth movement, I could deal with that.

By glovesave29

August 29, 2008 11:36 AM | Link to this

Sara - I agree that bringing in Meszaros as an RFA is a ball call. But I do disagree that time away from Enstrom, Valabik and Bogosian is a bad thing. Of the three, the only KNOWN commodity is Enstrom. True, Bogo will be something great and the jury is still out on Valabik, but if we can work a trade and not get him via FA, I think it would be a MAJOR improvement for this team.

As for Eric - it’s awfully hard not to like the undersized guy who makes it on toughness, grit and hard work. EVERY team needs players like this. They are the glue that holds a team together. It shows rookies and career minor leaguers what is possible if you work your tail off. The kind of exhuberance that he gives off is contagious.

By ranallo10 (in AT)

August 29, 2008 11:49 AM | Link to this

The kind of exhuberance that he gives off is contagious.

Very true, which is why I have no problem having him on this team. If losing him meant we get to see Holzafel or Machacek, I wouldn’t be completely against such a move.

By Toby

August 29, 2008 12:21 PM | Link to this

It looks like it’s Perrin vs. White for the last center spot. I like Perrin because of the work ethic. Thoughts? Will we trade the scraps?

By ranallo10 (in AT)

August 29, 2008 12:39 PM | Link to this

Toby — To be honest, I don’t think any scraps will be traded. Based on what Waddell has said (take it for what it’s worth), he’s content with the roster as it stands today, and wants to dress an extra player in both the forward and defender positions. That scrap will be simply sat, based on his words, for security in case of injury or poor playing.

By Tony C.

August 29, 2008 12:41 PM | Link to this

Perrin rules. I say don’t trade him. H was one of maybe 3 or 4 guys I could consistently expect a good effort out of EVERY game last year. I’d rather have him around to show the kids what real dedication to your craft looks like-I mean you know that guy “leaves it all out there”.

Too often in the past we’ve had players who were the exact opposite. That played a big part in the meltdown on all fronts last year I expect. Guys saw player(s) not giving it their all and said to themselves

“F- it. [Insert jackalope name here] isn’t putting out, why should I ?”

A guy like Perrin makes it hard to ask that question.

just my $0.02

By Bob

August 29, 2008 12:48 PM | Link to this

As for Eric - it’s awfully hard not to like the undersized guy who makes it on toughness, grit and hard work. EVERY team needs players like this

Yep. I think that getting rid of Holik also helps in this respect. I like Holik’s game, but he’s a finger pointer in the locker room. I like guys that shut the f up and put their head down and lead by example. Sure, a rah rah is needed out of a captain once in a while, and Captain Rat was spot on when he called Kari and Sutton on the carpet for their moronic blue hair spectacle prior to our first playoff game, but I like a captain and players that just lead by example.

By Alan

August 29, 2008 12:53 PM | Link to this

Custance has posted the following, regarding Meszaros:

I’ve got a confirmed no on a signed offer sheet from the GM’s of three teams I thought might be possibilities: Atlanta, Phoenix and Columbus.

He said some other things too in his blog, but given the first comment, I thought people might be interested in seeing this so we can stop postulating about whether Waddell really was dumb enough to do this. :)

By Sara

August 29, 2008 12:58 PM | Link to this

ranallo yes Perrin in a package could bring us an upgrade but we still only need top-tier talent here. Now, what team(s) has top-tier talent they would be willing to part with that a) they don’t need themselves or b) won’t be a UFA next year and thus nothing more than a rental for us? That’s the big question. While there are some teams that need to get themselves under the cap, I do not and would not expect them to part with their best players to make that happen. Cutting their nose off to spite their face kind of thing. And if we aren’t talking a bona-fide #1 something, then Waddell shouldn’t be listening IMO.

glovesave my concern is that your line of thinking (only Enstrom is a proven commodity) is exactly what ultimately cost us Coburn. He never got a true chance to play or develop/mature his game. Hartley always went with the “proven” guys instead of the rookie. If Bogosian and Valabik and Enstrom don’t get their time in, how are they going to learn and get better? Certainly I agree that Meszaros > XLB, Klee, probably better than Hainsey. Might even be better than Valabik ultimately, who knows. But I think we have a good corps to be going on with without giving up anything for an asset that might be nice but that we don’t need.

By ranallo10 (in AT)

August 29, 2008 1:16 PM | Link to this

Sara — I agree in part, but I don’t think this team is one Tier I player away from legitimately competing. Perrin brings this team depth (as does Exelby, Klee, White, etc), but those players in my opinion are expendable if they can bring an improvement to the roster.

Let’s say, for example, that Philadelphia was willing to get rid of Mike Knuble (not a player I would like to see here, but he’s just an example). In this instance he’s a top 2 line RW, making $2.8M on a cap strapped team, and is in the final year of his contract. Atlanta could give up a player who is also in the last year of his contract, but making significantly less than Knuble, which helps out Philadelphia. Perrin is clearly NHL caliber, has his benefits, and is only making $0.75M. However, he’s lost in the depth chart, and his presence can significantly stunt the development of Little or Christensen depending on where he/they play.

So, would you be willing to give a draft pick and Perrin for that slight upgrade, helping your youth develop unabated? Personally, I would have to think hard about it, and it would all depend on what else was included in the deal (I wouldn’t give up a second rounder for that example).

I do agree with Tony C. and Bob and you (and most everybody who adores Perrin) that he’s the type of guy you like to have around as an example for the younger players. However, there are many of those types of players around the league (Larsen is one too, Havelid is, etc), so latching onto one seems to be shooting yourself in the foot (think Jon Sim’s fan fair last season). If this team is to get anything in a trade they’ll have to give up something they don’t want to. My feeling is that no trades will happen anytime soon for Atlanta, but if they do the best return value would be fetched if the package included Perrin, Exelby, or White, plus picks and/or prospects.

By J(Z)

August 29, 2008 1:57 PM | Link to this

Supposedly its the Mullets who put the offer on Mezsaros. So says a friend of mine who lives in Canada, so its gotta have some truth to it…

BTW, compensation would be a FIRST, SECOND AND THIRD round pick based on this: $3,923,437 - $5,231,249 = 1st, 2nd, and 3rd round pick

By Alan

August 29, 2008 2:42 PM | Link to this

Supposedly its the Mullets who put the offer on Mezsaros. So says a friend of mine who lives in Canada, so its gotta have some truth to it…

They don’t have a third round pick to offer.

By Brendan

August 29, 2008 2:52 PM | Link to this

I like Perrin. I’d prefer to keep him. He doesn’t cost much now. He won’t cost a lot to re-sign. And if Waddell really wanted to re-sign Perrin right now, he could. Plus, he’s tradeable. But Ranallo is right. If some other team was looking for salary relief without hurting their production, and was willing to cough up a better player, with a few years left on his deal, I think it’s worth exploring. I’d also be receptive to a draft pick. But, it would depend on what round that draft pick is. In this regard, I don’t know what is realistic, in terms of draft pick compensation. My initial feeling is a 3rd rounder. Perrin certainly is very serviceable and is capable of being productive on a latter line, and can play special teams minutes. Perrin is a threat to score a short-handed goal. Plus, he has a “well-scouted” but nevertheless “nifty” shootout move. It’s bound to work 30% of the time. Unless he never varies the move. Kozlov is so good at shootouts since he’s got 4-5 moves he uses. The goalie never knows which one he might be getting next.

By Sara

August 29, 2008 2:54 PM | Link to this

They don’t have a third round pick to offer.

Yeppers, very true. Went to Pittsburgh when Malone signed his contract. Now, if a trade goes down in the next day or two between TB and PIT for that 3rd rd pick, well….

It would make sense - their D blows chunks. But they’d also have to move some salary out to make room for that contract as well. I think they are only about $3M below the cap.

By Brendan

August 29, 2008 3:07 PM | Link to this

Sara, can the Bolts acquire a 3rd round pick for the purposes of completing the offersheet? In other words, on the morning of the draft, TB makes a trade to get a 3rd rounder, which they then fork over to Ottawa?

Also, can the 3rd round pick be a “deferred” pick? That is, a 2010 third rounder? My feeling is … that’s not allowed. But if Ottawa AGREED to it, maybe the NHL would make an exception? In others words, the deal becomes TB’s 1st and 2nd round picks in 2009, and its 3rd rounder in 2010.

By Tony C.

August 29, 2008 3:23 PM | Link to this

Damn Brendan….maybe you ought to look into sport-management as a career…that’s a very imaginative work-around.

Not being facetious either. I bet you’d do well!

OK, so basically we agree that it’d have to be a difference maker to let Perrin go.

By Brendan

August 29, 2008 3:38 PM | Link to this

Thank you, Tony C. I appreciate that. And if the NHL ever calls, I promise I’ll listen to what they have to say. But then, I’m going to give them an earful about what they’re doing wrong, and how to fix it. Which may not go over so well!

Hey, any word on what Center Ice is going to cost on Comcast this year?

By polskidawg

August 29, 2008 4:29 PM | Link to this

Rawhide - I think your assessment of Perrin is very accurate. Truthfully, I was very disappionted in his sighing at the time, but he prove me wrong.

As to his value here versus somewhere else, that seems to be something to be determined, based on the first 50% - 60% of the coming season. You’d have to think that there would be interest from playoff teams.

By Sara

August 29, 2008 6:26 PM | Link to this

Brendan the answer to that would be no. It has to be the offering team’s draft picks, not anyone elses. So they would have to get their specific draft pick back from PIT to make it work. Edmonton went through the same thing when they made the offer sheets to Vanek and then Penner. They had traded away one of the requisite picks and had to trade back for it before making the offer. Same story for the draft year - it is the next subsequent drafts (ie the next year for 1st, 2nd, 3rd rounder, the next four years’ drafts for four 1st rounders, etc).

As for giving the NHL a piece of mind, I’d LOVE to have the chance to do that. There are sooo many things they could do better. Actually, I’d really like to be there the next time the CBA comes up. I’ve got a number of great, logical ways to make both a hard cap (which the league needs) AND appropriate player compensation work out. Of course, since they are logical, I’m sure the league would not be interested in any of it. ;)

By Scotty

August 29, 2008 6:49 PM | Link to this

Eric Perrin always busts his butt. Every game, every shift, every play. He is exactly the type of spark plug the team needs.

He helped make our penalty kill look more dangerous than our power play squad. Keep him. We need him.

Brendan, I think Tony C. is right. You really know your stuff and you can state your case clearly and intellegently. This blog is great for anyone looking to talk Thrashers hockey. Great commentary followed by great comments posted by so many hockey-wise people.

By glovesave29

August 29, 2008 8:30 PM | Link to this

Sara - what I meant by that is that we would rely on unproven players for THIS team. In no way would I let any of them go. I am just not sold on the fact they are ready for the big minutes just yet. I want to have a good mix of vets and younger players…to let the younger guys earn their way to the upper D combinations. Rushing them along to fill roster spots scares me. Too many young talented players have been destroyed by the burden of unrealistic expactations. Enstrom was the exception as he played in the Swedish Elite League, Bogo stil has yet to see his first professional shift. He is going to make mistakes, we want him to…all part of the growth and maturation process. We cannot give him a sweater, allocate 20+ minutes a game right off the bat.

The last thing I want is another Coburn trade, believe me!!!

With the depth that is expected in the upcoming draft, we would have to be INSANE to sign an RFA and give up those picks…OK Dave - set you up for a rant against Don with that comment…!

By Sara

August 29, 2008 8:44 PM | Link to this

glovesave I hear ya on not wanting to rush our young guys either but I think that’s where coach comes in. Anderson appears to be the type of coach that will lay out what he expects and also what he doesn’t expect. Fortunately none of our young guys are going to be expected to carry this team. We have Kovy (and others) to carry the offense and Havelid and Enstrom to carry the D. But the more ice these guys see, the more they are going to learn via experience, which is always going to be the best teacher.

As for how many minutes these guys see, expect Bogey in particular to see a LOT. He’s going to end up on the second pairing if for no other reasons than they won’t put two rookies out together, even on a third pairing, and I think the idea is that Bogey is more talented than Valabik. I just wonder if Enstrom and Havelid are going to be expected to carry that same load from last season - it’s kinda scary almost to think a rookie d-man led this team in ATOI last season - although he was a bad-a* rookie. :)

By glovesave29

August 29, 2008 8:58 PM | Link to this

Sara - I think JA is going to be a good coach. I am interested to see how he handles player development issues as the one you just raised. When he was in Chicago, he was fortunate enought to coach a team that won at all costs…they were a team built less upon developing players for the Thrashers than the others in the AHL were for their respective teams. Let’s see how he can stick to the long-term plan if the kid begins to really struggle and doubt himself…plans can often go arwry over the course of a long season.

I did wonder about you comment about getting time with the league to discuss what you would change…what are your ideas. I think this would lead to an interesting conversation in this group. For me, its easy - go back to players having to serve the entirety of the penalty. No more getting out if the power play unit scores. If a team gives up a few during the kill, you can be sure that he will be skating suicides at the next practice! Think he might think twice the next time he’s out there? YUP! I think it is the BEST way to cut down on these stupid lazy penalties that slow down the game. Also get rid of the trapedzoid behind the net. If a goalie has worked hard on his game to be a good puck handler, why penalize him? Makes the game more intersting to me.

By glovesave29

August 29, 2008 9:09 PM | Link to this

Well…it’s all a moot point now. Meszaros was traded to the Lightning.

http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/

By Tony C.

August 29, 2008 11:02 PM | Link to this

Well damn glovesave, ya beat me to it.

But I think that OTT actually made out better in this deal.

But in my Blueland-centric view, it makes things a bit stickier for us-I had hoped that the ‘ning would have the worst blueline corps in the division…this move puts them on an even footing for the forseeable future. They’ve got a lot of young defenders there-could be good news, could be bad.

The Mullet had a bunch of young blueliners when he coached the Kings-and they did pretty well for themselves, including our own (fondly departed) Zhitnik. While a lot of people put that whole cup run on #99 (and opbviously he was responsible for at least one series win 90% on his own merit), he wasn’t the only guy on the ice. In fact, in my mind, the Rangers in ‘94 owe more to the Oil than that ‘93 Kings team does.

My point being that Melrose has shown that he can do good work with young defenders before…Anyway, Meszaros makes it way too interesting for my liking

By LAC

August 30, 2008 2:21 AM | Link to this

Eric Perrin was a nice surprise in an otherwise forgetful season… Always hustled and worked hard at ALL aspects of his game, he WAS one of FEW good pickups last season, How about todd white-NOT !

Well TB does it again, makes a deal, it’s not that they traded, it is WHY are we sitting on our hands doing not one DAMN thing to improve this club.

Yet AGAIN Dumb don waddell shows us he is clueless in the world called the National Hockey League…

Why is white still here ? Slater ? and he was a FIRST rounder 30th overall, klee, wornout and larsen, anyone got some old sticks for trade ? I mean these guys are DEAD weight, oh… I am sorry, the GM say’s they are important players as we move forward… Good Grief !!!!!!!!!

Cheap Cheap Cheap, the only way to sum it all up, not one off season promise kept to the fans and not much to show for improving this BAD team…

When will it end ? When will we become a Strong team, a Winning team ? A Team others DO NOT WANT TO PLAY ?

Answer as long as don waddell is here, he is the Worlds best example of what a career LOSER is and he is setting new records every day he is here.

I just we had owners who want to WIN as bad as the FANS DO !!! Not would THAT be a Refreshing Change for THE BETTER !

By Sara

August 30, 2008 7:55 AM | Link to this

LAC what deal do you want Don Waddell to go out and make on Tuesday? What center or right wing is available right now that we could have? People come on here. To get the players you need, they have to first be available. There were no premier centers on the FA market this year. The best C traded this off-season came out of our own division - we weren’t going to have a prayer of getting him. This is not the time of year when teams typically go off trading their better players. Meszaros is a different kind of situation. OTT couldn’t make a contract happen so they moved him. Are there other RFAs with contracts still pending that we could go after?

Glovesave there isn’t a whole lot I would necessarily change about the game itself so much as procedural changes the League itself imploys. Two areas I’d like to see focused on are better marketing and officiating. Hockey players tend to be much more humble than other sports stars but they need to get over that. I want to see hockey faces plastered all over the place. Fans in other sports I feel are better connected to their teams (and sports) because they feel more connected to their athletes. They see their faces, know about them as people, identify with them. You don’t see that in hockey. Think about the AirTran billboards around ATL (about the only hockey promotion there is bless them). But Kari and Kovy for example are always in uniform with helmets and masks on…that isn’t a good way to get a connection IMO. I want to se more advertising for hockey on non-hockey channels - go for primetime ads on popular TV shows and major sporting events. Run an ad for pete’s sake during the Superbowl. Football fans are about to have free-time on their hands and are probably the easiest fan base to tap since hockey and football are both based on team concepts centered around phenomenal individual efforts and they are both physical sports. And sure advertising is expensive, but the ROI (return on investment for you non-business folks) in my estimation would be incredible. Plus, as a woman I can tell you that plastering those hunky looking guys around could help tap into the female demographic. Yeah puckbunnies can be annoying, but they can also be paying customers, both to games and for merchandise. And if girls are going to games, guys may follow. Mostly, I just think the NHL does a p**-poor job of marketing itself.

As for officiating, I am sick and tired of seeing crappy officiating in this sport. Last year’s play-offs were atrocious - I don’t think I watched a single series that didn’t have some gawd-awful calls. But the League covers these things up and never admits to errors which is frustrating for the teams and the fans. I’d like to force them to be more transparent in their workings and see more refs penalized for screwing up. I think they need to institute more in-game reviews of on-ice incidents. If a player goes down with injury or bleeds, I don’t care if a ref saw it or not, have TO review it. Now some hits are questionable in intent and accidents happen. So if TO feels it doesn’t merit a call, then leave it. But if a penalty is there, call it. Suspending a player after the fact, while punishing the player, does nothing to recompense the injured team.

One other change I would like to see made is to start play-off seeding on a straight 1-8 standing instead of ranking 1-3 by division automatically. Let the best teams get their reward. It’s not right, IMO, to make a team with more points (coming out of a stronger division also) seed two spots below someone else with no home-ice advantage just because that other team won its division which was weak to start with.

Anyway, that’s just some of my $.02. Discuss and add your own as desired.

By Nikita

August 30, 2008 10:50 AM | Link to this

However, there are many of those types of players around the league (Larsen is one too, Havelid is, etc), so latching onto one seems to be shooting yourself in the foot (think Jon Sim’s fan fair last season).

Why you gotta insult Perrin and Havs like that? Those guys played stellarly last year — in fact, they have played very well for the vast majority of their careers. Klee, though with much lower production, is pretty dependable. But Larsen and Sim? Their values are completely in their popularity and occasionally competent play. Ditto Ex.

I’m not saying we can’t trade any of them if the payoff is good enough. But I thik the mentally steady, with good general skills and worth ethic, deserve consideration over our delicate flowers. Plus, Perrin and Havs are playmakers — their linemates’ stats are also a reflection on how valuable they are.

By Brendan

August 30, 2008 3:25 PM | Link to this

Thanks Scotty. I appreciate that.

I call the blog’s attention to a wonderful lineup up of “Classic NHL Playoffs Series” between now and midnight on NHL TV. From 6-7PM, NHL TV is airing a “Top 10” show. Which is also good. I prefer the “Classic NHL Series.”

If you don’t have “NHL TV” and are a member of Comcast, you can get it by calling 404-Comcast, and asking for the “Sports and Entertainment Package.” If you already are a “Digital preferred” subscriber, this Sports and Entertainment package only costs another $5 a month. It’s a huge no-brainer. We’re talking about the cost of “one lunch.” And it’s on 24 X 7.

Also, Tony C., of our blog, can hook you up with Comcast’s best deal on phone, internet, cable, and Sports and Entertainment packages. It is truly is a great “companion” to your NHL “Center Ice” package during the season. Last year, “Center Ice” was $169.00 for the year. And yes, you had to pay it all-at-once. You can’t pay it off in monthly installments. Just do it. Once you write the check, your brain will release the endorphins and a calm, soothing feeling will envelop you. You’ll never regret it once you buy it. But here, in the dog days of Summer, “NHL TV” is a MUST for your die-hard hockey fans.

By ranallo10 (in AT)

August 30, 2008 4:27 PM | Link to this

Why you gotta insult Perrin and Havs like that?

I wasn’t insulting them Nikita, or I wasn’t trying to. What I’m saying is there are hundreds of players in the NHL who exhibit the qualities that fans love ever-so-much about players like Sim, Perrin, etc. Hustle is easy to find, look at Jim Slater…finding hustle with talent is a bit harder to find though. Perrin is not uniquely talented, in my opinion, and though his skills and effort are a welcome addition to this team, I would think that his value to the market is much higher now than it has ever been before. Since I don’t believe this team can seriously contend this season, I believe most assests on the roster should be expendable if an improvement can be had in return (or a high class prospect, or a 3rd roundish draft selection).

My point is simply…Perrin is fun to watch as he’s the type of player fans relate to. He works hard, he never seems to give up, he’s the David compared to many of the Goliath’s in the NHL. However, his skill sets are not unique (in my opinion), and though while they are welcome here, I would think he could bring more to improve this roster than his skill sets will ever allow.

Perrin and Havs are playmakers — their linemates’ stats are also a reflection on how valuable they are.

Hence all the more reason players like that are valuable to other teams. You have to give to get, and in this instance the return could be better than the package sent away. If this team were out of contention before February, I would consider letting Havelid go as well.

Understand this, unlike many of the usual suspects, I’m not calling for trades of players I dislike or undervalue. I’m merely stating there are players here with value to other teams, so if the Thrashers cannot compete (yet to be determined) then I am fine watching them play in another uniform, depending upon the return. Also, if that player now can be dealt off in a package to improve the current roster, I would most likely be supportive of such a deal.

By LAC

August 30, 2008 7:05 PM | Link to this

Sara, I’d make a trade on Thursday, not tuesday… Why not Spezza ? Dump Kari, get some offensive HELP…

Say what you WILL, Pavalac is a real keeper who, I believe can carry this team much better than #32.

There’s a GOOD start, why not, we are dealing from strength, and#17 gets a top notch center who can score and with the lineup we have not… we will be lucky to score 200 this season…

By Brendan

August 30, 2008 8:43 PM | Link to this

If you’re watching, the Dallas Stars and San Jose Sharks are in triple OT of Game Six on NHL TV. This is truly one of the best games of the entire 2008 playoffs, which is why I called attention to NHL TV earlier. Dallas led this series, 3-0, but the Sharks came “biting” back, 3-2. If Dallas loses this game, it goes back to San Jose, a team many expected to win the Cup this year, for Game Seven. If Dallas wins this Game Six, they clinch the series, and move on to face Detroit in the Conference Finals.

It’s got about 15 more minutes left, if anyone would care to watch it.

By JLH

August 30, 2008 9:14 PM | Link to this

Brendan,

Comcast said there is an early bird window for Center Ice during the first week in October for $109, but I would call them every week just in case …. I’ve found their info inconsistent at times.

By ranallo10 (in AT)

August 30, 2008 9:15 PM | Link to this

LAC — What sort of deal do you feel Ottawa would accept for their number one center? Lehtonen straight up?

By Alan

August 30, 2008 10:00 PM | Link to this

LAC - I see what you’re saying, and I agree with it for the most part. However, do we actually know what Lehtonen can do with a solid defense in front of him? How are we to know he can’t carry this team, or that Pavs can do it better, if Lehtonen’s true potential isn’t realized by all of us?

Unfortunately, short of giving up Kovalchuk, I don’t know who else we would send away for a top center. So you very well may have a point here.

As for the trade, TB gave up two defensemen for one. It’s not like TB actually had any defense to speak of to begin with, but now they have one fewer. Better for us, really. Stacked chock full of forwards, I expected them to drop one or two of those instead. And I certainly didn’t expect them to ship out a first rounder. Ottawa definitely won out, bigtime.

By Brendan

August 30, 2008 10:34 PM | Link to this

JLH, thanks for the tip! That’s a deal and a half! $109 is usually the January price. After the trade deadline, Comcast has offered it for $49.00. But, by then, there aren’t really that many games left. It’s still a good deal if you didn’t have it and really wanted to watch the playoff races across the league.

I’m watching the Oilers vs. the Winnipeg Jets from 1985. Names like Laurie Boschman and Dave Babych made me smile. Hadn’t heard those names in quite some time. I noticed something else: No advertising along the boards. They are white. It sort of makes the rink look bigger.

What year did the NHL allow commercial advertising along the boards?

By Alan

August 30, 2008 11:04 PM | Link to this

Brendan - The NHL allowed them starting in 1978-1979, but advertisements didn’t appear until 1980. Details here

By Brendan

August 30, 2008 11:43 PM | Link to this

Bob and Ranallo, how surprised were you that the Senators didn’t just open the wallet to keep Meszaros? I mean, he was their 1st round pick. And he was performing capably for them. Perhaps not as well as his rookie campaign, but still adequately.

I know. I harp on player retention all the time. But, without knowing that situation at all, how did the Senators let this happen? Is this more “fallout” from the Ray Emery fiasco/disappointing finish to the end of the season? Or, in your views, did the Senators just eyeball Filip Kuba and Alexandre Picard and think, “I’d rather have these guys for the next six years than Meszaros? Plus I get a 1st rounder off the Bolts, who may or may not be a playoff team.”

Meszaros, reportedly, has inked a 6-year deal with Tampa Bay. I didn’t catch a dollar amount. But the TSN.ca article hinted that the Bolts were offering $5 million as a “threat” when discussing the possibility of an offer sheet. If anyone has the actual figure, please post it.

Okay, maybe the Sens are happy with Picard and Kuba. Kuba is 32-ish, I think. But Picard was an 8th overall selection from 2004. Meszaros went 23rd overall in that very same draft. (You’ll remember Boris Valabik went 10th overall.) Which might explain why TSN.ca’s opinion poll currently rates Ottawa as the “first glance winner” of this trade, 60-40.

I can see that many people feel Meszaros was asking for “too much.” But, “too much” right now has to be weighed against “too much” six-years from now. What if Meszaros will be worth every penny, and more, down the road? Did Ottawa take that into consideration? Or were they thinking, “There’s just no way I’m paying $5 million next season for Meszaros, no matter what his potential might be?”

We’ll probably have this conversation again whenever Enstrom’s contract get negotiated. Isn’t the Kevin Lowe legacy reverberating throughout the league? Now GM’s can’t really offer an “RFA” contract of three years anymore to their high-end players. That “middle,” or RFA contract, is now 5-6 years, guessing at what the player will eventually be worth.

By Brendan

August 30, 2008 11:56 PM | Link to this

Nice link, Alan. I think I liked it better when the boards were barren. The ads on the ice aren’t so bad. But the Jamie Fitzpatrick link suggests that white ice is barely visable in some Euro leagues, due to excessive corporate logos.

By Alan

August 31, 2008 12:26 AM | Link to this

I don’t mind the board ads, and don’t really mind some of the ice ads… however, I would highly dislike sweater ads. It’s hard enough at times to read what the player’s name is. Imagine how much harder it would be if you’re fighting with logos from companies like Aaron’s Rental, Tim Hortons, Budweiser, and other companies?

On the upside, it might help teams in the so-called “sunbelt” like Los Angeles, Atlanta and Phoenix come closer to breaking even or pulling a profit if they have a mediocre or terrible season. And that might be why many Euroleague teams do it.

By Rawhide

August 31, 2008 8:13 AM | Link to this

Put me down as NO on jersey ads. I don’t want the NHL looking like NASCAR…(No offense NASCAR Dave).

Sara - I understand your point about seeding the playoffs based solely on record…but I think if the league did that then they should just do away with the division set ups and just have two conferences of 15 teams.

I think a certain reward has to be given for coming out on top of your division…especially if it’s a very strong one. Sometimes a division winner comes out on top with only 95 points or so because 3…sometimes 4… teams were very good teams and you have to play those teams more times due to the fact that they were divisional foes.

Brendan - Your comments on the Center Ice package is spot on, Professor! C.I. is one of the best thing the hockey gods ever gave us!!! I strongly recommend it to all hockey fans!

The previous was NOT a paid endorsement

By Sara

August 31, 2008 9:32 AM | Link to this

LAC Spezza would be awesome but why would OTT give him up? They only traded Meszaros because they couldn’t get him under contract. Heck, when we sent Heatley up there, we only got Hossa because they were struggling to get him under contract. Hoss got his $6M because we were willing to pay it. Besides, if OTT sent us Spezza, then who are they going to get to take his place on the roster? We sure can’t send someone comparable back. Plus if Kari is as weak as you think he is, why would they (or anyone else) want him? Top talent gets traded generally for two reasons: a) the players is at or approaching UFA or RFA and their team thinks or knows they can’t retain them or b) somebody needs to dump salary in a bad way and they are shipping off their highest contracts. Personally, I don’t know of a single team currently in either of those situations with a truly top-notch C or RW available. While some teams floating around or above the cap max might have some players to move that are an upgrade to some we have now, it isn’t going to be their very best players. And in order to trade, we have to give up something of value. I’m not in any mood to watch prospects or picks walk out the door for what amounts to a slight upgrade to our 2nd or 3rd lines. I want an upgrade on the top line or nothing at this point.

As for Meszaros, Brendan I think OTT moved him because they couldn’t sign him and Tampa was going to step in one way or another. While the picks might be nice, they would not have solved the immediately problem of replacing Meszaros on the roster. This trade does that. Of course, it also helped out TB big time because the trade cleared the necessary cap space for them to get Meszaros signed.

Alan advertising in Europe is an entire different ballgame than in the US. You ever seen an airplane in Europe? Looks a lot like a hockey jersey over there. It’s a smart move on the part of those industries to generate more revenue. The European air market is not as strong as it is in the US - more competition from the rails and I think just fewer people flying all around in general. I wish the airlines here would look into that. They are in desperate need of more streams of revenue plus maybe then they could cut back on how much they are screwing us. And while I would prefer not to see all of that on hockey jerseys, if that is ultimately what it took to salvage this league and make more teams profitable, I would grin and bear it so to speak. However I believe there are numerous other avenues that could and should be explored before it got to that point.

By Brendan

August 31, 2008 3:20 PM | Link to this

Sara, when you say Ottawa couldn’t re-sign Meszaros, do you mean (1) because of the salary cap, (2) because Meszaros was fed up with the Sens and wanted out, or (3) because of some other reason?, like holding the Sens hostage over a ridiculously high salary figure.

If it’s because of the cap, do you feel Ottawa mismanaged its cap? Or, simply mismanged this player? Technically, Ottawa had the right to renegotiate Meszaros’ contract a year ago. Maybe Meszaros was offended that the Sens didn’t approach him as a valuable asset that needed to be locked up? I couldn’t say. Maybe Meszaros looked at what Brian Campbell got and felt like if that guy is worthy of $7.1 million a year in cap hit, he’s got to be worth more than half of that. Perhaps the Sens offered $3.5 million. And Meszaros thought “try on $4.5 million for size. I want to go long without being undervalued for my future years.” Then maybe the Sens said, “Look buddy, if you think you can find $4.5 million after the season you’ve just had, have at it. And we’ll match it.” (Sound familiar, Josh Smith?) Or, maybe the Sens left out the “We’ll match it,” part. And if rumors of $5 million in an offer sheet are true, the compensation is pretty decent. The Sens could have waited to see what gets jettisoned by teams over the cap and picked up help there. Instead, they accepted a pretty decent trade. They still get a 1st rounder, but not two 1st rounders. And they get a high-end prospect player in Picard. As well as immediate, NHL-proven talent in Kuba.

While it’s true that salary caps tend to make teams give up players they otherwise wouldn’t have let go, something must be said about hedging some of these problems off at the pass. It’s about sizing up your roster and anticipating, as best you can, what is absolutely essential to retain over the next 2-3 years. If the Sens weren’t “high” on Meszaros anyway, they’ve got to be something close to thrilled now. They got rid of someone they didn’t want to keep and replaced him with equal or better value. But if they DID want to keep him, then they’re fortunate they recovered from mismanaging their asset. Not all teams are as lucky.

By Alan

August 31, 2008 7:40 PM | Link to this

It is indeed different, Sara, and I thought I illustrated as much in my post. Maybe talking about the extra revenue teams in the NHL would stand to gain from having sweaters littered with adverts missed the target, though.

I do agree, though. There are numerous avenues teams here could try before it came to that. Especially when you consider exactly how little the owners advertise the Thrashers compared to other teams in the region, like TB and Washington. You’ve got to spend money to make money, and the ASG isn’t doing either for the Thrashers right now.

By Sara

September 1, 2008 12:44 AM | Link to this

Brendan without getting a direct quote from either Murray or Meszaros, it’s difficult to know what either party was thinking. Personally I’m surprised Murray didn’t agree to meet in the middle (since ultimately that is what Meszaros signed for with TB). They have the cap room this season for certain. $5M left right now and the difference between a $4M hit for Mez vs. the $3.8M brought on by Picard and Kuba (who is a UFA after this season btw) is nominal at best. (BTW, they would have received 1, 2, and 3 round picks, not 2 first rounders.) I can surmise that perhaps Murray was looking toward the following season when a few roster players, Neil and McAmmond, will be UFA as will Gerber. GMs cannot necessarily assume the cap will continue to rise and should probably plan budgets at least based on the same cap figure as the current year. Neil and McAmmond are both cheap players and to retain them a raise would be in order. That said, they could also be replaced by younger talent coming in - at some point every team needs to phase in their youth.

I don’t think per se Murray has mismanaged his cap but I think it is a reality that has not yet set in for most GMs (or agents). There has to be a limit on premier talent on a team unless you are talking about the young studs still on their first or perhaps second contract. Heatley and Spezza both have huge contracts. They average $8M per year (although nhlnumbers.com has them at cap hits under that - not sure how that math got done - I guess when contracts are extended they average together with the old contract, which I’m not sure I agree with in theory or in practice but that’s another issue entirely). I’ve played around with the numbers in the past and basically a team can really only afford three top pay players around $6M average on any given team (although that was under the last cap figure). Signing players over that amount means you need to drop someone else’s to make the numbers still work out. Murray has a lot of guys under relatively cheap contracts (there is a SHARP drop off between those two and the next highest paid players - virtually half). But it still adds up quick. Murray may find it difficult to retain both Heater and Spezza for the duration of those contracts as other young players improve and desire raises. TB is gonna find themselves in the same nasty boat next season when a number of their players come up as UFA or RFA. And they have even less cap room to play with than OTT and more key players to sign.

I would not be at all surprised to see the cap number decline next season. If the economy in the US remains as it is now, people are going to have less disposable income than in prior years, which means less entertainment money going out the door. Less revenue, smaller cap.

It would seem there are in fact some benefits to being frugal with the budget. And who knows, if OTT really gets in a pinch, maybe LAC will get his wish for Spezza after all. ;)

By Bob

September 1, 2008 9:35 AM | Link to this

Brendan, I would assume that the Sens let Meszaros go because he didn’t fit into their cap plans. Some clubs look 2, 3 years down the road and they might have known if they inked him for 5 years $5m, they handcuffed someone else that needed paid. Dunno, that’s my guess.

By Brendan

September 1, 2008 12:29 PM | Link to this

Good stuff, Sara and Bob. Let’s see an eye out, in the future, for who Ottawa and Tampa Bay lock up with longterm contracts over the next three (3) seasons. Vinny is all locked up. What is Martin St. Louis’ status?

By Rawhide

September 1, 2008 12:51 PM | Link to this

Brendan - From what I understand, St. Louis is under contract with Tampa Bay for the next three seasons. He becomes a UFA in 2011.

By Brendan

September 1, 2008 5:25 PM | Link to this

The entries for the “Opening Night Budget” contest are now closed. Well, unless you can show that you’re stuck at LAX, waiting for a flight, where it’s only 2:30 PM. In which case, I guess I can allow an 8PM, EST, submission.

By Tony C.

September 1, 2008 6:34 PM | Link to this

Brendan-

you got me down for $43.8M right?

By Brendan

September 1, 2008 9:24 PM | Link to this

I’ll have to check your boarding pass, Tony C. I tease. I kid. Yes, you’re down for $43.8 million. And that just might be the winning entry! Good luck to all the contestants.