AJC > Sports Thrashers > Blog > Archives > 2008 > August > 26 > Entry
DEL.ICIO.USThe Year Of The Mongoose
The Atlanta Journal-Constitution
I’ve been quite busy over the last week or so with some of the activities my boys are involved in. Because of that, my time available to read and participate in the discussion portion of this forum has been greatly reduced. However, when I did have the opportunity to check in late Sunday night, it was quite a treat to read over the topics that you all were engaged in over the weekend. It was informative, entertaining and cordial. So, to Brendan, Sara, Ranallo10 (in AT), Alan, Glovesave29, Bob and all the rest of you…I just want to say thanks and well done. For me, it was just what the doctor ordered after a busy weekend with a full schedule.
Now, let me take this opportunity to revisit a subject that came up during the meeting that some fellow bloggers and I had with John Anderson earlier this summer. When I wrote of it afterward, one of the things I mentioned was his intention to employ a more aggressive type of defensive play. Instead of last seasons passive defensive plan…which allowed opposing players to cross the blueline virtually unchallenged… Anderson will look for his defenders to actually confront forwards who dare seek entrance into the Thrashers zone, harassing them with body and stick.
Coach Anderson referred to this more confrontational style of defense as “mongoosing” the opposition.
This came as welcome news to me after last season watching quite the opposite take place. Too many times the Thrashers blueline corps looked more like attendants at a turnpike tollbooth than NHL defenders. Worse, once “working” their way into the zone they were there long enough to file for Homestead exemption while Atlanta’s defense engaged in a brand of play that was dubbed Whack-a-Mole by, as you may recall, our own Sara.
She described the Whack-a-Mole defense as, ”a defensive strategy which involves chasing the puck, particularly around the boards of your own zone, and wildly swinging your stick in it’s general vicinity in the hopes that you might actually get lucky, make contact, and knock it out of your zone. Practiced heavily by the Atlanta Thrashers during the 2007-2008 season, of which the team’s final standing position of 28th out of 30 demonstrates the effectiveness…or lack thereof… of said defensive zone strategy”.
Indeed, last year’s defense allowed a league-worst 33.9 shots against per game and too many times Kari Lehtonen was called upon to turn away upwards of forty-some attempts at his goal.
Now the plan is that the buggers will actually have to pay a price at the tollbooth and their time in our zone will be greeted with an air of hostility rather than hospitality. Imagine that.
Also, Atlanta’s defenders will be looked upon to seek opportunities to step up on the other side of the blueline. To this measure, Tobias Enstrom showed a good ability to do this last season as he contributed 33 assists and 38 points in his initial season at the NHL level. The signing of Ron Hainsey fits nicely in this plan as well. Last year he accounted for 8 goals and 24 assists on a Blue Jacket team that could score but 2.32 goals per game, (only the Islanders faired worse in that category).
This more active defensive play should yield positive results for the Thrashers in the respect of SA/G. The question is, however, by how much? A fraction? A full shot per game? Could we dare dream that it could bring that stat down closer to 30 SA/G?
Of course, the shots taken per game statistic will need improvement as well. Last season’s 25.8 S/G was, like Atlanta’s woeful SA/G stat, worst in the NHL. But improved play from the back should prove instrumental in achieving this goal. Regardless, an 8-point gap in these two numbers simply has to be closed dramatically and the best place to start is in our own end… replacing Whack-a-Mole with the mongoose.
The responsibility will primarily fall upon the likes of Nic Havelid, Tobias Enstrom, Ron Hainsey, Garnet Exelby, Zach Bogosian and Ken Klee to make the new era of defensive play in Blueland a success during this upcoming season.
Call them Atlanta’s mongooses.
Or is that…mongeese?
In Other News
Allan Muir of SI.com predicts that the signing of Ron Hainsey will be seen as one of the sure-fire UFA busts this season.
Here’s a good piece on Thrasher’s first round draft pick Zach Bogosian by Tom Ferda of The Hockey News.
The Minnesota Wild and Marian Gaborik seem to be happy with the meeting that recently took place between the two parties and hope that a deal will be worked out soon.
Adam Proteau of ESPN.com ranks the NHL’s six divisions.
You’re sure to here the word “change” quite a bit from Denver this week. But, as Darren Eliot points out, it seems to be prevalent throughout the NHL as well.
Well, look here, will ya. Tom Van Riper of Forbes.com compiled a list of the worst American cities to be a sports fan…and Atlanta is NOT on it.
Oh wait…we DID make this list!
Comments
Commenting is now closed for this entry.
By Spud Webb
August 26, 2008 12:34 PM | Link to this
Nice Blog Rawhide I agree, we’ve given up the Blue line for as long as this franchise has been here now, without as much as even a “whack”. It will be nice to see if our aggressive play brings down the shots on goal and at least gives Kari a chance this year. Muir brings some decent points about Hainsey but the fact is we had to overpay and it is what it is. Not much we can do about that. Do you foresee any other roster moves (Bogo should be signed soon) before camp opens or is this it?
By Alan
August 26, 2008 12:40 PM | Link to this
Good to see you again during this slow period of the NHL offseason, Rawhide!
I believe the plans Anderson has laid out is one reason I am very optimistic about this season. I remember last year at this time thinking we were going to be mediocre and wouldn’t recover too well from the 0-4 ousting from the playoffs. And, well, we know what happened and the rest isn’t really worth discussing anymore.
Anderson’s plan for our blueline appears to give us a system to work with, at least on defense. With the addition of Valabik, Hainsey, and Bogosian to the blueline this season… even if we lose the game, it should be an entertaining game to watch.
I’m really looking forward to camp and how our players react to having a bona fide system to work in. While nothing is a sure bet quite yet, I’m hoping that our guys gel quickly and easily.
By Scotty
August 26, 2008 12:46 PM | Link to this
If the new “mongoose” defense can cut the SA/G stat down to anywhere near 30, then it’ll be a success by any measure. Heck, anything would be better than what we watched last year.
I enjoyed reading the comments posted here over the past few days and nights myself. When people stick to hockey talk in here, there is no better place to go to keep up on things.
By Bob
August 26, 2008 12:54 PM | Link to this
I don’t know that I can argue much with Muir’s take on Hainsey, except that he wasn’t brought in to be a 1st pairing guy here. He’ll be a #3 guy and yes, he’s overpaid for that role.
But Waddell was backed into a corner. He had to spend the money and had been turned down by Campbell and others, so he had to spend the money, Hainsey just wound up being the beneficiary of that.
That, and well, Waddell is good for one bad UFA dman signing a year, Klee, Adam Burt, Smehlik, the list is endless, this year’s winner of the Don Waddell UFA Dman Follies is Ron Hainsey.
By maali
August 26, 2008 1:04 PM | Link to this
you mean the d-men will actually play d?! whoah.
By Brendan
August 26, 2008 1:28 PM | Link to this
Perhaps the “Olympic Spirit” moved us, Rawhide? As Chris Collinsworth said to Bob Costas after the Closing Ceremonies, “All up and down the Olympic green, there was global sense of camaraderie that was beyond belief. It was almost ‘chilling’ to witness. It makes you wonder, if the world can get along SO WELL for two straight weeks. Why not three? Why not a month? Why not longer?” To which Costas retorted, “We’ve been asking ourselves this question since 1896, with no answer.” Those of you who were in Atlanta in 1996 probably still remember the experience here very well.
In a way, the Olympics are the closest thing you’ll ever see to a sports equivalent of Christmas. But, by New Year’s Day, we’re right back to being as rude and inconsiderate of others as ever. Shaking my head. It’s probably best not to put any further thought into it. Other than this: At least we don’t have to wait four more years to experience it again. The Winter Olympics in Vancouver is just 18 months away. If you recall the Closing Ceremonies of the 2002 Salt Lake City Games, fans “booed” the announcement that the Games must now come to a close. Fans screamed for an Encore. Nobody wanted it to end. I think Jacques Rogge then said, “Really. They have to end.” And they ended with a little boy taking the lantern off to Torino, Italy, for the 2006 Games.
In Salt Lake City, our Team USA took the Silver medal in hockey, losing 5-2 to the Canadians. In Torino, Italy, Team USA went 1-4-1 and never approached the medal stand. Now that the Games are coming back to North America, perhaps it’ll give our boys an edge? The pressure is squarely on Team Canada, as hosts, to take the Gold Medal away from the Swedes. Sweden defeated a previously undefeated Team Finland for the Gold Medal in 2006. Kari Lehtonen did not participate in those Games for Finland. He was home resting, still somewhat recovering from his groin injury that caused him to miss most of the 2005-06 season.
I suspect that Kari will play in 2010 for Team Finland. That is, if he can best Miikka Kiprusoff and Antero Niittymaki. I’m not sure of this, but I don’t think Lehtonen has ever defeated Niittymaki in an NHL game. Is that correct?
By GaVaHokie
August 26, 2008 1:39 PM | Link to this
I invite everyone to look at Ben Wright’s take on the Alan Muir article on Ron Hainsey before forming an opinion. He brings up some good sticking points.
By Alan
August 26, 2008 1:48 PM | Link to this
I don’t think Lehtonen has ever defeated Niittymaki in an NHL game. Is that correct?
It is true.
This season could be a turning point, however. It just depends on how the D-corps plays.
By Smitty
August 26, 2008 1:58 PM | Link to this
Brendan Remember who put the USA team together in Torino.
With this new defensive sytem hopefully XLB will bounce back from that disaster last year. We will need the defensemen to be better at standing up the attacking forwards. More importantly our forwards will have to be a lot better at coming back to help in our own end. Nothing like an open ice hit at the blue line. Bogosian should fit right in and hopefully Valabik can step up
By Spud Webb
August 26, 2008 2:06 PM | Link to this
GaVaHokie good research. Just goes to show don’t believe a writers opinion every time. Hainsey is what he is and I think that any of us (knowledgable hockey fans) know what we got, he is an upgrade and a puck moving D man. We had to overpay a bit, but I’m ok with it and he will help this team. All my opinions of course!
By ranallo10 (in AT)
August 26, 2008 2:11 PM | Link to this
Smitty — To be fair, the Salt Lake City team was laden with veterans, who believe it or not didn’t get much younger four years later when brought together for Torino. The young players brought in to fill the void of some of the departed veterans, well…there isn’t much quality in the US depth chart, especially compared to the Canadians, Russians, and Swedes.
In my opinion Salt Lake City was a “miracle” that the US even got a medal. There is much stiffer competition on the international scene than the US can keep up with, let alone compete against. And personally I find it refreshing that the US isn’t dominating this sport too…it gives other country’s something to be prideful of, and something to be upset about when the underdogs beat them.
So I don’t expect a medal for the US in 2010, but rather I expect the Swedish, Canadian, Russian, Czech, Slovakian and Finnish teams to be the toughest competition out there, as usual. If the US can get a bronze, I’ll consider it a victorious Olympic Games for the US, hockey wise.
By R. Stroz
August 26, 2008 2:14 PM | Link to this
While the Olympics were a nice break from international conflict, the situation with Russia and Georgia is beginning to look more problematic on a daily basis. The U.S. signed a missile defense deal with Poland shortly after the Georgia invasion and Russia was kicked out of NATO.
Now you may ask what does this have to do with hockey.
My open ended question is this:
If current political tension increases, will there be any fallout on players decisions on whether to play in the NHL or the KHL?
Will Russian players be “forced” to stay put? Will North American players be “comfortable” playing in Russia during a period of political instabilty?
By ranallo10 (in AT)
August 26, 2008 2:30 PM | Link to this
It’s Sports Illustrated, what can you expect really? Notice how all but one of the players he identified were defenders? I guess he didn’t take into consideration the influx in salaries based on high demand for puck moving defensemen.
In the article Wright alludes to (and links to), Muir claimed Streit and Hainsey are good targets as transition specialists…yet both Hainsey and Streit made his list. Clearly he has a problem with the contract given.
But, I find it interesting that Finger misses the list, but there is no explanation as to why. Or how Ryder suffers an obvious decline in production (on the same team Muir used to argue against Streit’s production), yet he also missed the cut for Muir’s list.
I’m not saying he’s got an agenda or anything like that, I just find those things interesting. As others have said, Hainsey was a player that had to be overpaid (though not as drastically overpaid as Muir considers) to come to Atlanta. I think it’s interesting that the common link between 4 of his top 5 is that they’re defenders, and 3 of the 4 were signed by bad teams (thus often needing to overpay to get talent).
Whatever, lists based on a writers opinion mean little to me, there are hundreds of them every offseason. It’s just another opinion to ponder, then ignore.
By T-Bone
August 26, 2008 2:31 PM | Link to this
The Mongoose sounds appealing, but I’m not sure we can decrease SA/G too much unless Havelid cuts down on his centering passes to the other team in our own zone.
By GaVaHokie
August 26, 2008 3:09 PM | Link to this
Whichever D-pair demonstrates the “Mongoose” style of play the best, gets the nickname… there, something to work towards.
By ranallo10 (in AT)
August 26, 2008 4:06 PM | Link to this
The Mongoose system sounds much better than the Opossum system they ran last season, and the season before, and the season before…
By NASCAR Dave
August 26, 2008 4:11 PM | Link to this
To be fair, the Salt Lake City team was laden with veterans, who believe it or not didn’t get much younger four years later when brought together for Torino. The young players brought in to fill the void of some of the departed veterans, well…there isn’t much quality in the US depth chart, especially compared to the Canadians, Russians, and Swedes.
WHY didn’t you mention that DONNIE picked the players???
By Rawhide
August 26, 2008 4:26 PM | Link to this
Spud Webb - Do you foresee any other roster moves (Bogo should be signed soon) before camp opens or is this it? - I’ve stated before that I think there is still a roster move via trade made in the next few weeks. Once we get close to or into training camp, there will be some team looking to shed payroll and depending on who’s available, maybe D-Dub will look to sure-up the lines.
Scotty - Yep…there are some pretty bright people around here who know hockey pretty good. Read and learn. I know I do.
Hokie - Great link, thanks!
RStroz - Excellent question. I would like to think that sports and world events do not affect one another in such a way, but obviously they do. In the end we’ll have to wait and see how it all shakes out.
ranallo - The Mongoose system sounds much better than the Opossum system they ran last season, and the season before, and the season before? - HA!
Of course, some would argue that the even that system originates from ownership and management that employs the “ostrich” system.
Only it isn’t the …ground… they are sticking their heads in.
By Tony C.
August 26, 2008 4:38 PM | Link to this
It’s mainly because Muir is (shocker!) yet another TorontoMapleLeaf d!ck-rider.
The blue and White can do no wrong for these people during the summer. I mean look at “Love Guru”…Myers brought out retread characters to feature in a movie where the Leafs actually won something (clearly a fantasy-even Mike Myers alluded to this “I don’t know if they’ll win in my lifetime, so I decided to write a movie where they did[paraphrased]”)… MapleLeaf fandom strikes upwards of 65% of Frostback males, resulting in decreased deciscion making abilities as well as delusional interpretations of reality.
Pity these people.
Also, I challenge you to find a generally positive piece about any SE division team at any time! Last time I can recall was the obligatory congratulation-piece after Tampa won The Cup.
Yeah we had to overpay Hainsey, but I think it’s going to look like a very smart move as soon as this March, and most likely by next December.
Se yall at big-boy camp.
GO BLUE !!!
P.S. I need definite orders for the T-shirts by the end of September
By HookyBob
August 26, 2008 4:43 PM | Link to this
Yeah we need to “stand-em up” at the blue line. Maybe we can even do it at “their” blue line like Nic Kromwall.
By ranallo10 (in AT)
August 26, 2008 5:04 PM | Link to this
WHY didn’t you mention that DONNIE picked the players???
Because in my opinion it didn’t matter who picked the players, the US squad was not ever talented enough to compete for the gold. Brian Burke, Ken Holland, or David Poille could’ve picked the squad, the results would’ve been the exact same.
You tell me who you’d rather in goal for your international squad…Roberto Luongo/Martin Brodeur, Miika Kiprusoff, Evgeni Nabokov, Henrik Lundqvist or Rick DiPietro/Ryan Miller. In my opinion, the US goalies rank behind (in order) the Canadians, Russians, Finns, and are maybe on par with the Swedes. I’d take DiPietro or Miller before Petr Budaj though…so score that a victory for the US talent pool!!
By Bob
August 26, 2008 5:07 PM | Link to this
WHY didn’t you mention that DONNIE picked the players???
Question now is, is USA Hockey as brain dead as the All SpoogedUp Goofs? They are if they put Donnie back in as GM of Team USA next go round.
By NASCAR Dave
August 26, 2008 5:11 PM | Link to this
That said, Hainsey’s still a player better when used in a complementary role. Even the defense-starved Blue Jackets, desperate for someone with his transition skills, couldn’t trust him with first-pairing minutes… So it’s hard to imagine what upside the Thrashers see that could justify making Hainsey the team’s second-highest paid player, trailing only Ilya Kovalchuk in laughs generated on the way to the bank. He’ll be a serviceable defender, but not an impact player … and this is an impact-player contract.
I agree with all of this…
But, what this writer failed to point out is that HAINSEY was just sloppy seconds to us… That money was set aside for CAMPBELL, and when CAMPBELL made the right choice, we had to settle for HAINSEY, so DONNIE could fulfill 1/2 of his promise to the STHers…
Which makes me wonder though… WHERE is the OTHER 1/2??? And don’t say NIKULIN or BOGO, because NIKULIN was NEVER coming here and that was just a coverup to deflect attention from this year’s DONNIE failures, and BOGO was a draft pick, so they cannot logicly say he is one of the 2 D-Men they promised you…
So, you tell me… Who’s getting the raw deal here???
You are.
NUFF SAID.
By NASCAR Dave
August 26, 2008 5:16 PM | Link to this
BOB - I’m pretty sure I heard DONNIE got fired from Team USA this past season…
By ranallo10 (in AT)
August 26, 2008 5:24 PM | Link to this
NASCAR Dave — Would you have the same complaint if some stump was signed off the UFA list, just to keep his “promise” to those at the Town Hall Meeting? I imagine most of us would’ve viewed that signing as wasted salary, unless the player was top two quality.
Personally, I’m happy only one defender was signed, as that means the young players deserving of ice time (Valabik and possibly Bogosian) will get it. Hainsey’s a fine second pairing defender, and now the youth will get a chance to show where they should be playing, the minors or Atlanta.
By Tony C.
August 26, 2008 6:05 PM | Link to this
Oh, and just my gut talking here; if KL beats Nittymaaki the first time up against him (and please believe that even if he isn’t the Flyers “#1”, that Stevens starts him against us-he mentioned Nittymaaki’s record against us in a pre-game interview last year-almost slipped up and said Nittymaaki owns us but retreated and and said something like “Well, you know, he [Nittymaaki] O-err-has a great record against this club, and we’ll need him to be sharp down the stretch for us”), then KL will have the type of season everyone (especially his agent) is hoping for him.
I think he can do it, and if he does beat Nittymaaki and can beat Ward in regulation it’ll represent a HUGE step in his maturation. We’ve all seen where KL’s mental game is lagging behind his physical game (as is common for most netminders-Tom Barraso being a notable exception), but these two guys in particular seem to get Kari’s brain all jumpy. I believe that early success against those two opposing goalies in particular will reap positive benefits for years to come.
By glovesave29
August 26, 2008 7:21 PM | Link to this
Dave - I think everyone here is a bit disappointed we did not get Campbell. But 3/4ths of the league wanted him and only one team is going to win his services. We do not know for certain if it was a case of not wanting to play here, or if he just felt that Chicago was a better fit for him. But I think in the long run, we may be happier with Hainsey. YES, I know he isn’t the big splash we were promised - but he is a guy who was teetering on the edge of losing his spot in the NHL a few seasons back. Instead of pouting about it, he went to work and made himself a better player who has constantly improved each season. Campbell on the other hand turned his last contract season into a lucrative new offer. He has some serious liabilities in his game, let’s face it - Denis Potivn, Bobby Orr or Larry Robinson he aint. I could care less what “experts” like Allan Muir think - let’s see what he brings to the ice. The team will struggle to meet last years record - but I think the defense will be more stout, we will play with an edge, and we will go all out for the full 60…and to me that is moving in the right direction.
By Tony C.
August 26, 2008 8:12 PM | Link to this
More summer reading from CC…in this he finishes an interview with The Mullet
By Smitty
August 27, 2008 7:43 AM | Link to this
Campbell would have been a good addition but not at 7-8 million /year. He is a good defenseman not a great one. As several of you have mentioned he has a few flaws and I think the money could have/should have paid for a top line forward. Let our young guys have a shot. Then we will know if we have a future or if this is the final nail in the coffin for DW
By Spud Webb
August 27, 2008 10:29 AM | Link to this
Nascar Dave I agree, what happened to the promises at the town hall meeting? I’m not a season ticket holder and wasn’t there but for anyone who was, were we not promised a 1st line center and TWO top Dmen? Anyone correct me if I’m wrong with that, again I wasn’t there. Hainsey is an upgrade, but hardly top 2. Going to be hard to keep Kovy here and happy with todd white and company taking face offs.
By NASCAR Dave
August 27, 2008 11:23 AM | Link to this
SPUD WEBB - Yes, that is correct. More false promises from DONNIE and gang… WHY is THAT???
By Sara
August 27, 2008 11:28 AM | Link to this
Spud back over here buddy.
The promise per two people present was for 2 top d-men and a top forward (center position not specified - which was smart given we need a top center AND a top RW).
By Section119
August 27, 2008 11:59 AM | Link to this
Or that there hasn’t been a single second-round playoff game won by three of the division’s five teams in more than a decade?
Two Stanley Cup champions!?!
By Spud Webb
August 27, 2008 12:11 PM | Link to this
Sara I think you should be our GM, not kidding. Lol, I will start the petition opening night. Caps, ugh. The complete opposite of us right now, sign the big name stud, and surround him with the right people, though they could use another stay at home D man.
By NASCAR Dave
August 27, 2008 12:15 PM | Link to this
The promise per two people present was for 2 top d-men and a top forward (center position not specified - which was smart given we need a top center AND a top RW).
So how come we don’t have any of those???
WHY is THAT???
By Sara
August 27, 2008 12:21 PM | Link to this
Spud thanks for the vote of confidence. ;)
The Caps are hitting their stride now because some of their young studs are coming to good fruition. Ovy, Green, Semin, etc etc. They also play solid hockey in a good system. The Thrashers are getting a good infusion of young talent that hopefully, coupled with the new system by Anderson, can lead us in the same direction in the relatively near future. What I’d be looking at this season is: whether or not Anderson’s systems translate well to the NHL and/or whether or not he can adapt to this level; how our young players perform and mature with a/another season under their belts; what kind of chemistry the team has and if any player(s) in particular does not seem to fit into the chemistry; and lastly, where it looks like we still need to take some strides forward, ie how weak are we still defensively, do we need more scoring/balanced scoring, are we physical enough, blah blah.
Unfortunately, we are over a month away from beginning to get any answers to those questions.
By NASCAR Dave
August 27, 2008 12:43 PM | Link to this
It must be nice to be able to lie to your clients and customers… How do they do it with a straight face, though??? Is this why DONNIE is becoming less and less available to the Press??? Interesting, to say the least…
By ranallo10 (in AT)
August 27, 2008 12:54 PM | Link to this
If that’s your opinion about lying, I guess that means you don’t vote…
By Alan
August 27, 2008 12:56 PM | Link to this
Unfortunately, we are over a month away from beginning to get any answers to those questions.
-sigh- October can’t come soon enough.
By jared
August 27, 2008 3:26 PM | Link to this
so i was reading the comments for the bogosian piece from thn. philly fans propose a bogosian hatcher trade, no one tell donnie he may get a little wet in the pants
By Brendan
August 27, 2008 4:10 PM | Link to this
Reminder, Reminder, Reminder!! A-hem. Your attention please. Friendly reminder time. The closing for the guestimates of the “Opening Night budget” will close at 5PM on Monday, September 1st. If you have not yet submitted a vote, you may do so anytime between now and then. If you HAVE submitted a vote, and wish to change it, you may do so as many times as you wish, so long as you arrive at a “final answer” by 5PM, on Monday, September 1st.
Now, if you change your vote 14 times between now and then, I might just disqualify you on the basis on being annoying.
Here, now, a recap of the guesses so far. R.Stroz has entered $41.5 million. Alan has entered $48.6 million. Bob has entered $44.0 million. Brendan has entered $44.5 million. J(Z) has entered $38.5 million, with a $2 million fine attached to it. Ranallo10 has entered $40.7 million (the absolute FLOOR of the cap). Volgrad has entered $44,328,803.67. Hockey Biltong has entered $48.0 million.
So, right now, Alan has the highest bid and J(Z) has the lowest. The winner is the person who guesses closest to the actual figure. I think we’re using nhlnumbers.com as the source for the Opening Night figure, lest the ASG actually “admit” what it is. I’m not going to hold my breath for this ownership to call attention to such a matter. And if asked, they’d likely reply, “The budget is of no importance. What matters is the play on the ice and getting results. If we won the Stanley Cup, at the floor of cap, would you fans be angry about it?”
That’s never been an ASG quote. Although, it could probably be mistaken for a Bruce Levenson concept. For the record, I would never complain about the Thrashers winning the Cup. (Unless I was sure that the following season would see the team firesold for salary relief, Florida Marlins style, circa 1998.)
If you have voted, and I missed your vote, please re-enter it before the deadline. So, what does the winner get? Answer: Admiration and a measure of credibility. Regrettably, cash cannot be offered at this time. It’s just for fun, like every blog should be.
By Bob
August 27, 2008 4:13 PM | Link to this
So how come we don’t have any of those???
Sit yerself on down and let me interpret WaddellSpeak for you. Old Donnie didn’t lie, we have that forward, he signed Williams, right?
And we have the two new dmen, Bogosian and Hainsey.
See, Donnie didn’t lie, he just twisted the truth a little bit.
I feel bad for those that re-upped for season tix based on his promises, the rest of us are holding them accountable to build a club that wins before we go back, period.
By Realistic Fan
August 27, 2008 4:17 PM | Link to this
The response to the Mongoose defense will be to dump the puck at or near the blue line, forcing the defense to turn and head for the end boards. This ought to be entertaining as the Thrashers defensemen are not exactly fleet afoot and Kari is not a very good puck-handling goalie. Mr. Bogosian will learn firsthand how fast NHL forwards are as they zip past him towards the corners, Mr. Exelby will look even more pitiful than usual on his skates and Ken Klee will be shown to be as old as he is. Mr. Enstrom better hope he gets there first and out in a hurry or we will be scraping him off the boards. If the Thrasher forwards are not committed to busting a** and backchecking as a unit things will be ugly. If the Dmen try to stand up the opposing forwards chasing the puck, the likelihood is that in “todays”NHL we will see the Trashers taking a lot of obstruction penalties. I still like our chances to draft John Tavares in the 09 draft (and he’s a center, yes!!!).
By PJ
August 27, 2008 6:26 PM | Link to this
Brendan, Put me down for 42.3M.
By ranallo10 (in AT)
August 27, 2008 6:56 PM | Link to this
Brendan — Is it “closest to the actual figure” or The Price Is Right rules where going over means you’re wrong?
By glovesave29
August 27, 2008 7:01 PM | Link to this
Here’s an interesting read on the trickle down effect of players who are waiting for Mats Sundin to make his decision. Three players we could CERTAINLY use around here are still out there…waiting…
http://slam.canoe.ca/Slam/Columnists/Garrioch/2008/08/27/6585971-sun.html
By Tony C.
August 27, 2008 7:44 PM | Link to this
I want Gomez.
What should I offer to the Hockey Gods as a sacrifice?
Anyone?
By ranallo10 (in AT)
August 27, 2008 7:58 PM | Link to this
I can think of a few people you could sacrifice…
By Tony C.
August 27, 2008 9:09 PM | Link to this
ranallo-
I have a few people (and one animal) that come to mind quickly, buuuuuuuuuuuut, I’m fresh out of lye, and it looks weird renting a woodchipper if you live in a condo./
By ranallo10 (in AT)
August 27, 2008 9:26 PM | Link to this
Yeah, that would look just a tad bit weird.
By Rawhide
August 27, 2008 9:43 PM | Link to this
Brendan - I’m down for $42,452,875.
Also, I have narrowed by projected point total predictions from a window of 82-86 points to 85 points.
By Alan
August 27, 2008 9:45 PM | Link to this
glovesave - I’m wondering if Atlanta is one of those teams in the “Sundin Sweepstakes,” quietly biding their time instead of making a big spectacle of things like Edmonton with Hossa and Vancouver with Sundin?
Given the laws of probability, it’s likely untrue, but it’s something to consider. It could really be why we haven’t made any moves to sign any of the remaining FAs.
By Brendan
August 27, 2008 9:58 PM | Link to this
PJ, it’s duly noted, $42.3 million. It’s getting VERY INTERESTING now.
Ranallo, “closest one wins.” If someone wants to guess $56.7 million, it’s fair game. The problem down the road is … if the budget turns out to be $50.6 million and there’s one guess at $48.6 and another at $52.6 million. Both are equidistant from the correct number. And I don’t have a tie-breaker mechanism in place. I think the only fair thing to do is call it a “tie.” Remember when hockey used to have those? They weren’t “evil, sinister things to be avoided at all costs.” A tie was a pretty valid outcome to a game. Bygones.
If only the league would dump the OTL column and just go with wins and losses, since those are the actual results of every game. Maybe it’ll get tabled in the next CBA discussions?
So, I see a 4-year contract has been handed out this late in the offseason. Good for San Jose to lock up its player. Better late than never. And I see Sakic will re-up with Colorado for a year, at $6.0 million. That’s a good move, I think. Colorado still has a shot at a playoff berth.
Question: If Sakic has privately told the Avs that this is his final year, and Colorado is out of playoff contention at the trade deadline, would they “rent” him out to give him one LAST shot at the Cup? It’d help the Avs pick up draft picks and maybe prospects. It may be moot, if he has a NMC. Unless he’s willing to waive it. It would be very strange to see Sakic in some other team’s colors, even for 6 weeks.
By Brendan
August 27, 2008 10:25 PM | Link to this
Rawhide, $42,452,875 is entered on your behalf. PJ just got nervous.
Tony C., you’ve been wanting Gomez since the 2007 offseason. He’d be an interesting addition here. I just have no idea how it would come about.
By Jameson
August 28, 2008 12:11 AM | Link to this
Brendan- I guess put me down for $41.577 Million.
By Sara
August 28, 2008 7:14 AM | Link to this
re: Gomez Spector pointed out recently that moving Gomez to make room for Sundin would be about as stupid as it gets. I have to concur, and while Sather went through the early part of this decade/century doing some rather stupid things, he’s behaved himself since the lockout. So I have a hard time believing that move would come to fruition without some major sweetener on our part that would be even stupider.
As for us getting Sundin, no chance in heck. IF he comes back, it’s probably going to be with a team that has a chance at a Cup. Can’t blame the guy, how many years has he played without getting even a sniff?
Brendan toss me down for, hmmmm, $41,750,001.
By glovesave29
August 28, 2008 7:28 AM | Link to this
Rawhide - cannot imagine that Sundin would ever come here…not while we are this far from even getting a sniff at just making the playoffs. I am sure the man wants a chance on watching his name getting engraved into the cup.
Here is an interesting read on a conversation with Waddell by Rogers Sportnet columnist Mike Toth - he share the opinions of many of us here on the blog…
http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/2008/08/26/tothpassthe_puck3/
By ranallo10 (in AT)
August 28, 2008 8:18 AM | Link to this
glovesave… no offense dude, but you need help with your links.
I doubt Sundin would ever play in Atlanta, especially after what he said about the Southeast Division (if anyone remembers that).
By glovesave29
August 28, 2008 8:52 AM | Link to this
I have no idea why the longer addresses cut off like that…! I used to use the parenthesis like instructed to below and they never worked…now I cut and paste. When the address is short, it works fine, but the longer ones seem to get !@&$%#ed up. Sorry…but the article is still worth reading!
Don’t remember what he said about the SE division - but lets be honest, this is not always going to be this way…remember the old Smythe Division - that could be won with less than 80 points? Or when the Flames came in 4th in their division - but 5th OVERALL in the league? Divisions rise and fall just as teams do…
By ranallo10 (in AT)
August 28, 2008 9:07 AM | Link to this
Use brackets around a sample word like this then after the word use parenthesis around the link.
[Sample] followed by (link) with no spaces between the two.
By Tony C.
August 28, 2008 12:17 PM | Link to this
Re: Gomez
I know.
I just remember how well he played with Mogilny….and my eyes glaze over thinking about #23 to #17 …
By ranallo10 (in AT)
August 28, 2008 12:45 PM | Link to this
Tony C. — I remember the last game I watched in a box at Phillips, Gomez decided he’d take the puck the entire length of the ice, and scored easily. He made it look like “easy” mode of a video game.
He’s a great talent, and was my favorite of the three big names available (Drury, Gomez, Briere), but as we’ve all said I doubt he’d be in Atlanta anytime this season. And New York is stupid if the part ways with him.
By Tony C.
August 28, 2008 2:42 PM | Link to this
Well, what about Glen Murray???
I mean, last year was obviously a big dissappointment for Murray and the B’s.
But he’s a pretty good scorer, I think last year was the first season in a while he didn’t score at least 25G…and it’s for just one year-How much would we have to pay him? I mean is he strictly UFA???
By Viking
August 28, 2008 3:49 PM | Link to this
It seems a little funny to suggest a player born in 1972 for a “rebuilding team”, but Glen Murray is a right winger and could make us a little happier in the process.
The following excerpts from July 25 and 26 suggests that he is a free agent and perhaps could be had for an “affordable” investment for the upcoming season:
“As expected, Glen Murray, who was placed on unconditional waivers by the Bruins Wednesday, was not claimed by yesterday’s noon deadline. If a team had claimed Murray, it would have assumed the $4.15 million remaining on his contract.
The Bruins can buy out the right wing today, shaving two-thirds of Murray’s salary off their 2008-09 cap number. They must complete the transaction before the buyout window closes Sunday”
“The Boston Bruins have bought out the final year of veteran right-winger Glen Murray’s contract. The team announced the move Saturday.”
I guess this means Boston is paying him 1.38 million on top of what he will make next season. So, if he does not replace decent young talent that need NHL seasoning, it appears he should be considered in spite of his age.
It is at least better than to be in the risk zone of paying fines for not reaching the minimum!
By Brendan
August 28, 2008 5:10 PM | Link to this
Sara and Jameson, your votes are duly logged into the contest. Good luck to both of you.
So, Stu Barnes hung it up? Good for him. He’s going to spend the next two seasons as an Assistant Coach with the Dallas Stars.
By Spud Webb
August 28, 2008 5:20 PM | Link to this
Brendan put me down for 41.8 and 78 points. Ugh, can’t believe I just wrote that.
By Alan
August 28, 2008 5:53 PM | Link to this
A new article about Arturs Kulda is now on NHL.com.
By Brendan
August 28, 2008 5:56 PM | Link to this
Spud Webb, it is duly noted at $41.8 million. We’re not taking points submissions until the roster is set, in October.
Now, I hear ya. Maybe you don’t think the roster will change much between now and then. You might be right. But what if Teemu Selanne and Mats Sundin agreed to play here, and then a trade Scott Gomez materialized?
It won’t.
But if it did, would you still want 78-points as your guess? (By the way, that was my submission, too, back when we were playing around at making guesses on point totals, given the roster last month.) We don’t have a “tie-breaker” mechanism in place, if there are multiple correct guesses for points. I’d say, in October, when we start to collect point total guesses, that the guesses be tied to what place in the Conference the entrant thinks the Thrashers will finish.
For example, “79-points, 12th place,” as a guess.
By glovesave29
August 28, 2008 6:13 PM | Link to this
Well, personally, I would jump all over Murray right now. We have money we have to spend anyhow.
TSN is also reporting two things - 1. Andrej Meszaros and the Sens are MILES apart in their contract negotiations. Remember that link I posted yesterday about getting something in return for Lehtonen and bringing up Pavalec…would you do it? He’s better than Gerber or Auld and we get some defense. 2 is that Mats Sundin is now considering coming back mid season a la Niedermayer (DEAD!) and Selanne. Should be interesting as to the trickle down.
I’d also go after Shanahan…I know his preference is to be a Ranger or Blue, but he is a quality leader. Wear an “A”.
By Brendan
August 29, 2008 2:13 AM | Link to this
It was Sage of Bluesland who once said, “Beware of Senators bearing gifts.” I think he referenced the Damian Rhodes deal and then MacEachern and 6th Round pick in 2004 (Dan Turple) for Brian Pothier. Pothier eventually left Ottawa and was signed by SE division rival Washington, on a 4-year deal. It was also Sage who said that “The Heatley trade will be regarded in the same way that Brett Favre is with the Falcons.” (Copyright, Sage of Bluesland, 2005)
I like Meszaros, Ottawa’s 1st rounder, 23rd overall, 2004, but I’m not ready to quit on Lehtonen just yet. And Pavelec is almost entirely unproven at the NHL level. In many ways, Lehtonen isn’t yet a “proven commodity” goaltender.
Any way you slice it, it looks bad for Atlanta to be trading away a 2nd overall pick. It’d be one thing if Kari had utterly fallen on his face, and Atlanta was just trying to salvage “something” before the guy was lost on waivers. That isn’t the case. Even in last year’s disastrous season, Lehtonen’s save percentage was more than decent. Kari is still very young and is a capable-enough goalie. He just needs a better defense corps in front of him. And a game off after 6-7 consecutive starts. He did manage to win 34 games in a season for Atlanta, in the past. There’s no real reason to believe he couldn’t do it again, if Atlanta assembled a playoff caliber squad.
I do realize, at this point, that’s a reason why Ottawa might consider getting Lehtonen. But I also think the Senators really do want to keep Meszaros. I suspect they’ll eventually come to terms. But I don’t really know that situation. I couldn’t rightly tell you if Meszaros just “isn’t feeling the love, Childress and Josh Smith-style,” or if Meszaros is just, flat-out, demanding more than his “market value.”
Down the road, I really do hope that Lehtonen-Pavelec will be Atlanta’s “1-2 punch” in net. I’m confident that John Anderson can and will develop a goaltender rotation that works for Kari.
By LAC
August 29, 2008 2:19 AM | Link to this
Brenden, I say $46.8, feel a TRADE may take place.
What does the winner get as a prize ?
Dinner with don ?
By Brendan
August 29, 2008 2:36 AM | Link to this
Duly noted, LAC, at $46.8 million. This contest is getting very compelling now. It’s going to be very close.
I don’t know if a trade is coming, LAC. I’m slightly more inclined to believe a bought out player, or two, might be signed as a UFA. I’m not a big fan of trades, at this point. It means a player who never chose Atlanta is now forced to play here, perhaps contemplating his exit strategy on the very flight to Hartsfield. They’re professionals. And they deal with it. Hossa dealt with it. He did put up a 100-point season, a career-best, with Atlanta, not Ottawa. His third season of the deal didn’t measure up to the previous year. I think he was demoralized. And who does their best work feeling THAT way?
By Sara
August 29, 2008 6:33 AM | Link to this
Brendan I’m with you on keeping Kari. This kid has talent. It truly says something when a goalie can pull out a SV% that ranks 15th among all starting goaltenders on a team that finished 28th.
There are people who frequently question Kari’s mental fortitude. Hartley used to ride Kari’s tail, verbally and in his poor management of the goalie rotation. Kari has also been put into a position where he needed to be the savior of this team on most nights. You can talk about mental toughness all you want but 99.99% of the population if put into the same type of situation in their jobs would be frustrated as all get out as well. When you feel like you boss is a jerk, and when you feel like you are having to carry the majority of the project workload with little to no help by your co-workers, you aren’t going to do your best work either, nor will you be happy. Most of us would just quit under those circumstances, but Kari can’t. He’s tried to battle through all of it anyway.
Now Kari is going to be in a situation where he has an excellent working relationship with his boss. Hopefully, he can also get more support from his teammates on defense so it isn’t up to Kari to save the day every night.
By Sara
August 29, 2008 7:53 AM | Link to this
Alan great find. I like this kid a lot. I figure one year of AHL seasoning should do it for him and then he’ll be up next season with the big club. He’ll likely take the D spot vacated by Klee next season, pushing Exelby down to 6th/7th shared duties. I do worry how much playing time we are going to be able to get for some of our younger guys but it ought to work itself out. I certainly don’t think Anderson will pull a Hartley-Coburn with any of them.
Enstrom, Bogosian, Valabik, Kulda, and Hainsey as a top 5 ain’t too shabby. :D
BTW, re: Meszaros according to Custance, somebody tossed that boy an offer sheet. Ottawa of course denies it, his agent said “no comment.” Multi-year with $5M average salary were the terms Craig heard. Wonder where that came from? Ottawa has to be happy about it though - it’s not totally astronomical money and at least this way they can get him under contract since he’s resisting so strongly. Just goes to show ya that even the best teams can struggle getting players under contract.
By glovesave29
August 29, 2008 8:12 AM | Link to this
Brendan - I don’t want to give up Lehtonen either. Look back at past blogs…I have been one of his most staunch supporters. I feel he has progressed nicely, and other than his rebound control (and EVERYONES game has some weakness), is a fine goalie. That being said, I want a good defenseman. Meszaros fits that bill. We do not have much else to offer that I think that we should part with, so unfortunately, Kari is the odd man out.
I will grant you the Rhodes signing - a mess (and perhaps a sign of things to come?) but Pothier was worth the gamble, so I cannot blame Waddell for that one.
But Lehts for Andrej to me is a fair deal. Not like we are trading a youngster for a grey beard. Both are young and heading into their prime. A defense with Meszaros, Bogo, Hainsey is suddenly not looking so bad. We go after Murray and Shanahan instead of waiting around for the camp cuts on the waiver wire, I might see more than the 76 points I previously predicted.
By ranallo10 (in AT)
August 29, 2008 9:10 AM | Link to this
I’d rather keep Lehtonen. Also, Brendan, Meszaros and his agent have made it known they want to play in Ottawa. They could’ve been accepting offer sheets to this point (his a RFA), but instead they’ve been in contract negotiations with Ottawa.
I don’t think Meszaros is going to be traded, especially for Lehtonen.
By Sara
August 29, 2008 9:14 AM | Link to this
glovesave I see where you are coming from but I think if the move is made to trade either Kari or Pavs, it needs to be for something that meets the needs of this club. Between Bogosian, Valabik, Kulda, Enstrom, and Hainsey, our D is potentially very strong for the coming years. However we are seriously lacking scoring depth and need a top line forward (C or RW) desperately. So if we’re gonna make some drastic moves, they ought to be in that direction (RW preferably, we lack the most depth at that position). Just my $.02.
BTW, this Meszaros situation is rathering interesting to watch unfold. The team and his camp are about $1M apart on terms. He won’t agree to sign any length of deal, be it one or five years. He’s threatened them with bolting to the KHL (wonder how many times GMs are going to hear that in the future). There’s reportedly an offer sheet floating around. Murray’s trying to play nice in the media while still blaming this all on Meszaros and his agent. Ahhh, it’s like it’s own little soap opera (except instead of that stupid “MVP” on SoapNet, this one will ultimately result in some actual hockey).