Ice Man

By Brian

August 22, 2008 9:16 AM | Link to this

Yes it is really me. The original Brian, not someone else using my name. Rawhide can authenticate this. I have been attending to many other things this year and have not had the chance to post like I used to. But Rawhide has invited me back to get back into the swing of things.

It seems there have been a number of pests and trolls here recently (of which I am not). This has lead to the delusional theory by Stroz that I am none other than Roswell Thrasherfan. So I have come on today to ask Rawhide to state for the record that this is not true as he can state it for a fact.

I am also going to ask Stroz that he please stop blogging about me. What is more disturbing is that now he is starting to bring my family members into this. So I will ask just one time, please Stroz no more posts, no more e-mails to me about this and please do not call me on the phone. This is not only completely baseless, it is also completely classless.

For the rest of you knuckleheads, I will try to log on soon hopefully before the players hit the ice. Play nice in the meantime.

Rawhide - please state for all your loyal readers that I am not Roswell Thrasherfan.

By GaVaHokie

August 22, 2008 9:43 AM | Link to this

Rawhide, great blog… I’ve been thinking this all along. I still see one more top line player coming our way. I’m hoping for someone like Gionta or Prucha to give us depth on the RW side.

Kovalchuk/Christensen/Prucha

Kozlov/Little/Williams

or

Kovalchuk/Christensen/Williams

Kozlov/Little/Gionta

By Smitty

August 22, 2008 10:17 AM | Link to this

There is a good article in the Toronto Globe&Mail by Eric Duhatschek concerning Stefan Legein. It is hard to realize that a a 19 year old could burn out but if you know the demands that thes kids go through to play major Jr A hockey you wonder why it does not happen more often. Maybe that is why so many first round picks do not pan out. Maybe with a year off he will get the passion back and return. Imagine your 15-17 year old son living away from home playing 60-70 games a year, long bus road trips, practice every day and still trying to get an education in his limited free time. I know we all would like our sons to be in that position but remember these are just kids. Please do not think I am soft I am not. I just realize how much passion these kids have to have for this game to get this far. Rawhide I think we will finish ahead of 4 or 5 teams this year which I believe leaves ATL out of the lottery. I believe there will be an opportunity for a trade especially if Sundin goes to The Flyers or Rangers. I can see trading a #5 or 6 pick for proven top line forward to help Kovy

By NASCAR Dave

August 22, 2008 10:31 AM | Link to this

I’m hoping for someone like Gionta or Prucha to give us depth on the RW side

LMAO! HOKIE what makes you think we could get either one of those guys??? That is truly laughable… You’re Funny…

The Roster is set… The only question now is what kids will make the team…

By ranallo10 (in AT)

August 22, 2008 10:59 AM | Link to this

He said “I’m hoping”. Stop being a dick.

By Alan

August 22, 2008 11:00 AM | Link to this

The Roster is set… The only question now is what kids will make the team…

We’re still under the floor, Dave — The roster is anything but set. Even with Bogosian’s assumed contractual salary, the roster can’t be set in stone at this point, simply due to the fact that Bogosian is unlikely to make all his performance bonuses.

While we may not end up picking up Gionta or Prucha, we will end up with at least one more roster player.

By GaVaHokie

August 22, 2008 11:24 AM | Link to this

Hmmm if Perception is reality around here… what does that make Nascar Dave?

LMAO! HOKIE what makes you think we could get either one of those guys??? That is truly laughable… You’re Funny…

Um, probably because Gionta is on the trade block, has been since last March deadline when he was offered to us in the Hossa sweepstakes.

Now, NJ cant afford to take on a Hossa-esque player. They’re sitting at $55 million which they can’t operate on… Gionta will be traded for prospects and draft picks. Something we have plenty of.

By Alan

August 22, 2008 11:28 AM | Link to this

What NHL players would perform in what Olympic events? Terry Frei at ESPN.com has the answer.

Synchronized diving: Henrik Sedin and Daniel Sedin, Vancouver Canucks, Sweden Diving would be prime gold-medal territory for Sweden if Swedish fans could get past the fact that the event, which debuted at the Sydney Games in 2000, is one of the most ridiculous-looking sports on the Olympic docket. That’s saying a lot given the competition.

(continued)

By ranallo10 (in AT)

August 22, 2008 11:32 AM | Link to this

Hokie — Gionta at $4M is fine, but for one year I’d be cautious about trading for him. I personally don’t think this team is only one big name forward away from the playoffs, so I’d rather see a player come to Atlanta who is at least a RFA in 09/10 and not a UFA who is free to walk for nothing in return.

Looking at the New Jersey roster, I’d rather see a trade made for Zubrus…but I doubt that would happen. Zubrus fits their system very well.

By ranallo10 (in AT)

August 22, 2008 11:38 AM | Link to this

Daniel Briere would represent Canada well in synchronized diving, and possibly bring home the Silver if he were teamed up with Darcy Tucker.

In the individual diving competition, I’d give the edge to Briere…he can flop with the best of them.

By Sara

August 22, 2008 11:44 AM | Link to this

Rawhide while I applaud the reasoning behind your theory, the problem is that said trade alone could be enough to catapult us well away (relatively speaking) from the lower draft picks.

As much as many people don’t want to give this club credit, I don’t think there can be much doubt of the impact a top center or RW would have (a LOT). So it really isn’t as much in another team’s best interest to give us too good of a player.

That said, it’s all relative. Even picking 10th is better than the 29th or 30th that other teams might normally find themselves.

I had seen that ranking of the players with the most value. I got the impression that while talent level is a factor, contract length is really the big one. However, Mr. Cullen doesn’t seem to think Kovy would garner all that much on the market (comparatively speaking). Course, he also still refers to Kovy as “very much of a one-way player” or something to that affect. While Kovy is no Selke finalist, he’s come a long way from the days of hanging out at the center red line all the time. Perhaps if Mr. Cullen watched a game or three of Thrashers hockey he would know that. ;p

By NASCAR Dave

August 22, 2008 11:49 AM | Link to this

We’re still under the floor, Dave — The roster is anything but set.

Why are you still worrying about that, ALAN??? LOL, were gonna be fine…

While we may not end up picking up Gionta or Prucha, we will end up with at least one more roster player.

That could happen… I don’t see us getting more than 1 roster player, though… I highly doubt we do, though, but there IS still a chance we do…

He said “I’m hoping”. Stop being a dick.

It’s good to have dreams, RANALLO… HOKIE has pipe dreams, obviously…

GO DAWGS!!!

By Alan

August 22, 2008 12:02 PM | Link to this

*Why are you still worrying about that, ALAN??? LOL, were gonna be fine… *

I’m not worried by any stretch of the imagination. I just think it’s a little short-sighted to say our roster is “set” when we clearly have a problem that needs fixing — and will undoubtedly be fixed before the start of the season.

All I’m saying is the roster, while our “major” pieces are already in place (take that how you will), we still have some tweaking to do. And that could involve sending off a lower tier roster player (a Slater, Thorburn, or Klee — for instance), a prospect, and/or a draft pick to take on the salary of a player another team has that puts them above the cap.

By Rawhide

August 22, 2008 12:03 PM | Link to this

Smitty - Can you post a link to that article? Sounds like a very interesting read.

NASCAR Dave - If I’m not mistaken, we still have to get to the minimum floor in regards to payroll. I know there have been some who calculate us just over…but I still look at it as just under. Either way, I think it lends to the notion that another roster move will be made.

Ranallo - How’s Austria treating you? How is Ms. Austria doing?

Sara - the problem is that said trade alone could be enough to catapult us well away (relatively speaking) from the lower draft picks. - Yeah, that’s the little catch 22, isn’t it. However, I still think that other GMs need to cast off salary plays in our favor.

Brian - Yes, you are “The” Brian…and from what you have told me, you aren’t “Roswell Thrasherfan”. I hope “Brian” continues to post comments relating to the Thrashers and hockey in general. To that matter, the “Brian” who posted on the previous blog was, indeed, NOT “The” Brian.

Further clarifications:

The “Walrus” is Paul McCartney.

The “Eggman”, I have come to learn recently, may not have been John Lennon…but could actually be Eric Burdon, the lead singer of The Animals.

“Lancer” was the Secret Service code name for President John F. Kennedy.

“Deep Throat”, of Watergate fame, turned out to be former FBI official Mark Felt.

And finally…”Superman” is actually Clark Kent of The Daily Planet. I know, hard to tell when he wears those glasses, eh?

I hope this clears everything up and we can just move along…

By ranallo10 (in AT)

August 22, 2008 12:21 PM | Link to this

RH — Austria’s wonderful, thanks for asking. Ms. Austria is doing well, and quite content keeping the “r” out of her title ;-) If you and the family happen to visit during winter time, I’ll treat you all to a Vienna Capitals game! You’ve got three years.

I’m still confused though…who is Batman??

By Sara

August 22, 2008 12:37 PM | Link to this

RH yeah the salary issue bothers me from the perspective that Don is so cavalier about it. The entire premise to us being just above the floor is Bogosian hitting all of his bonuses. So what happens if he doesn’t? What if, knock on wood, there’s an injury that prohibits bonuses from being achieved? I think it’s assinine to set a minimum payroll on anything other than guaranteed salary numbers. Whatever.

At this point, I don’t see anything changing unless a trade comes available for a truly top-notch player. In fact, I don’t WANT to see anything else unless said trade comes about. Another old and/or 3rd/4th line guy is pointless compared to getting our younger players ice time for development and evaluation. Don needs to work on getting a top-level center and/or RW via a trade (about the only way we’ll get one) and ignore everything else.

By Alan

August 22, 2008 1:09 PM | Link to this

In fact, I don’t WANT to see anything else unless said trade comes about.

I agree with you here, but we’re probably going to end up eating some other team’s bloated overpaid and under-performing player. The Falconer points out at the end of this post that the San Jose Sharks and New Jersey Devils did just such a deal before the puck dropped on the 2006-2007 season. The player in question, Vladimir Malakhov, didn’t even lace up for one game that year, but his salary still counted. And SJS got a first rounder out of the deal, too.

By Ryan

August 22, 2008 1:21 PM | Link to this

Too many points here to talk about. I don’t like Prucha GaVaHokie, I think he would be the second coming of Jim Slater. Even if he is the second coming of Antropov like ranollo said I don’t want that either. I want a legitimate 1st line guy, not some inconsitent guy with potential or a young guy who doesn’t reach potential. I do like Gionta and NJD have 4 capable right wingers now so he is expendable and was rumored at last year’s deadline in a few different deals, so we can get him.

From yesterday that I didn’t get to clear up. I don’t care much about whether or not the Bhulin wall gets moved, I just think he “might” and if he does it is only significant because of his salary, it’s not a blockbuster deal. He also gets thrown into the category simply because like Campbell, Hossa, Smyth, he is high salary and not going to get resigned and on the last year of a contract.

As for Yzerman coming, I don’t see it being worthy ranollo. This is the same type of complaint glovesave had yesterday on chemistry, but just because a player is a hall of famer as a player does not translate into a good post career whether it is tv, coach, mgt, etc. I think the only exception is if they can add clout to ownership but that is the exception and happens rarely. I don’t think Scotty Bowman ever made it out of the juniors. Wayne Gretzky is ok but not lighting the league on fire in Phoenix. Brian Burke, Darcy Regier, Ken Holland, not a who’s who of great players from the NHL. So until Yzerman proves he can do something legit in the front office, I don’t want to hand the keys over to him so easily.

I will reserve judgement Sara for once the season begins. I don’t think we can claim right now that Waddell is being cavalier when he may have a contract on his desk or is working a trade. Maybe he was counting a Nikulin contract in the total and now that that fell apart in his face he has to find another option we don’t know of yet. If on opening night we are right below the floor hoping Bogosian hits his bonuses I will come back and say you were right then. I am more bothered if we are setting payroll so low that we have to worry about the floor. At the very minimum, shouldn’t a team spend as much as the previous year. If the cap goes up a percentage, our own budget should go up that same percentage. It shouldn’t decrease as the cap increases. On that note there better be a trade coming.

By ranallo10 (in AT)

August 22, 2008 1:48 PM | Link to this

Ryan — A few corrections: First, I didn’t compare Antropov to Prucha, I believe Hokie did (it was regarding a player who has put up points in the NHL but hasn’t found a consistent line to produce with).

Second, Campbell wasn’t traded due to his salary, his cap hit was $1.171M (salary $1.75M). He should be in your list of “high salary” trades.

I disagree with you about Yzerman. Why? Because the best GM in the NHL says that he is ready for a GM position with an NHL franchise. An endorsement from Ken Holland goes a long way in my mind, as does a Hall of Fame career. Yzerman was never the most talented player on the Red Wings, but he was the smartest and gave the most effort every time on the ice. That sort of determination and grit shows his character, and there’s no reason to believe he wouldn’t do the same in a GM position. He was the leader of one of the best NHL teams of the past decade, I am willing to give him a shot at leading this franchise.

Besides, Brett Hull is doing pretty well in Dallas thus far…who would’ve guessed that?

By andrew

August 22, 2008 2:03 PM | Link to this

So how about Drury, or Gomez from NYR? Maybe Marleau from San Jose. Granted they are long shots but that would be amazing to see one of them come over for a first round pick and 2 prospects. Solves our center problem and we have a good product that any average hockey fan would want to see again.

By Alan

August 22, 2008 2:10 PM | Link to this

The Thrashers, before the all-star break, played a game against the NY Rangers where they retired the jersey number of Brian Leetch. This season, on 3 Feb 2009, the Rangers will host the Thrashers again during a jersey retirement, this time of players Adam Graves and Andy Bathgate.

By Bob

August 22, 2008 2:11 PM | Link to this

If I’m not mistaken, we still have to get to the minimum floor in regards to payroll

I think if you factor in Valabik and Bogosian, they’re right there. I wouldn’t be surpised to see this lineup be the one that goes to camp, but Waddell may revert to his waiver wire pickup days to pick up a center or RW during camp?

By B. Thenet

August 22, 2008 2:16 PM | Link to this

I think the perception we are going to be bad also hurts the Thrashers from a trade perspective. Other teams will assume DW is desperate and push harder for more concessions from the Thrashers than other teams.

I think the negative perception of the Thrashers helps Anderson more than anyone. You can bring the team in, create a bunker/Us Against The World mentality and have a great opporunity to get everyone to buy into the new system right off the bat.

I agree with your thoughts on the season Rawhide, outside the playoffs by 5-10 points but not picking in the Top 3 like last year.

By Ryan

August 22, 2008 2:16 PM | Link to this

Sorry for the quote rannollo, I knew someone made the Antropov comparison, I just don’t know everyone well enough yet to remember who’s who. That’s my fault.

As for Campbell, maybe he wasn’t high salary at the time, but Buffalo knew it was going to take over $7 million a year to resign him, and they weren’t going to pay it, so that’s what I meant that he was a player that must be traded due to high salary. Buffalo’s only choice was to trade him for whatever they get or let his future high salary walk away for nothing. Anything more is just semantics.

As for Brett Hull, I know people who have worked with the Stars going back to the North Stars days. Brett Hull is CO-general manager, and Les Jackson is the one doing all the real work while Brett is on the golf course.

Finally, regarding your Ken Holland recommendation, didn’t Ken Holland have another assistant general manager who he recommended as being ready for a gm position? Do you think we should give Stevie Y a shot based on that? I know that’s hitting you below the belt but come on, you can’t have it both ways.

By JAmes_kovyboy

August 22, 2008 2:17 PM | Link to this

I say get Nylander and Gionta/Knuble, then get rozival… We can Send XLB, White, Klee, Slater, Larsen and prospects

Kovy-Nylander-Williams Kozzie-Little-Gionta/Knuble Perrin-Christ-Army Boulton-Reasoner-Thorburn

Havelid-Enstrom Rozsival-Bogs Hainsey-Valabik

WOW thats Stanley cup contender

By Travis

August 22, 2008 2:21 PM | Link to this

For the rest of you knuckleheads, I will try to log on soon hopefully before the players hit the ice. Play nice in the meantime.

By Ryan
August 22, 2008 1:21 PM | Link to this
Too many points here to talk about.

That didn’t take very long.

By Erin

August 22, 2008 2:29 PM | Link to this

I say get Nylander and Gionta/Knuble, then get rozival… We can Send XLB, White, Klee, Slater, Larsen and prospects

OK, now THAT was funny!

By Ryan

August 22, 2008 2:31 PM | Link to this

“Too many points here to talk about”

“That didn’t take very long”

I thought it was my longest post yet. Am I missing something???

By glovesave29

August 22, 2008 2:36 PM | Link to this

Andrew - with us having the possibility of having the first overall pick and getting Tavares, why would you ever want to offer up a first round pick? Doesn’t make any sense.

By Toby

August 22, 2008 2:37 PM | Link to this

I don’t see DW giving up anything earlier than a fourth rounder. He is one of the most conservative coaches around. The only chances of a trade would involve some of our scraps. White…Slater…etc….

Included in his list…our own Ilya Kovalchuk.

Kovy #47?!?!? Was that guy drunk? If a rented Hoss gets 2 second/third liners, a good prospect and a 1st rounder, then Kovy (with 2 years left) would get us AT LEAST 2 first liners and a 1st round pick.

By Russ

August 22, 2008 2:43 PM | Link to this

Rawhide - I agree that another move will still be made, but IMO our first round pick for next year’s draft should be off limits. With decent odds that pick could turn into Tavares, an argument could be made that pick is currently the Thrashers second greatest asset (after Kovalchuk). Teams looking to dump salary are going to be offering players that are overpaid compared to the production they provide. I think at best the Thrashers might be able to land a decent second line player before the start of the season and I wouldn’t give up next year’s #1 pick for that.

On another topic, I am curious to see what some of you think of this. Most people assume Kozlov is going to be left wing on the second line. I thought Kozlov was awful last season and seemed to show no passion or leadership. Most people assume this is a re-building year (building year, right Bob), so why not put a player like Sterling on the second line for an extended look to see what he can do. This is assuming, of course, that he makes the team out of camp. From what I have seen the perception of Sterling’s chances to thrive at the NHL level are split pretty evenly, but what would be the harm in at least putting him in a role where he at least has a chance to show what he can do? I would have no problem with Slava being demoted to third line duty to give Sterling a shot. After 20 games if Sterling has only put up about 5 points, then send him back to Chicago, but let’s at least put the young guys in the roles they belong in. Also, Lavallee or Stuart should easily take Larsen’s job IMO.

By GaVaHokie

August 22, 2008 2:53 PM | Link to this

I think the perception we are going to be bad also hurts the Thrashers from a trade perspective. Other teams will assume DW is desperate and push harder for more concessions from the Thrashers than other teams.

I think the teams over the salary cap would look far more desperate than Atlanta in a trade scenario.

I like where we’re sitting right now… we’ve got PLENTY of room to take on salary cap casualties.

By Ryan

August 22, 2008 2:55 PM | Link to this

I think that is exactly what is going to happen with Sterling Russ. Especially given that he is one of Anderson’s boys from Chicago. I also think you are spot on with the lottery pick. It is our 2nd most prized asset behind Kovalchuk. But what everyone here needs to realize is that it’s a LOTTERY. We don’t have to finish in the last 3 places to take part in it. We just have to miss the playoffs, right? So if we miss the playoffs, come in 17th place in the league, 14 from the bottom, we might have the slimmest chances of getting Tavares, but it is still a chance. And no one here thinks we are a lock for the playoffs so hold onto that chance.

By Mark

August 22, 2008 2:58 PM | Link to this

What people need to realize and remember when looking at the nhlnumbers cap figures is that there are some variables that it does not take into account. Lets use Philly as an example. Their cap numbers do not take into account players that will be put on LTIR before the season starts. Mike Rathje has a serious back injury that would not let him play but he has not officially retired yet. So, prior to the start of the season, the Flyers will place him on LTIR and his $3.5M salary will not count against the cap. So, just like that, there’s $3.5M off of the cap number and now Philly is only $1.0M over the cap. Hatcher also failed his post season physical and has not been cleared to play. Some think that he might start the season on LTIR as well, and that would be another $3.5M off the cap, add in Parent at $0.855 and that putts Philly at $55M, below the Cap.

The point is, while those numbers at nhlnumbers.com might be right, they do not take into account these type of things as there is no reason, or motivation for teams to put players on LTIR during the summer. There are probably other teams with similar stories as Philly so teams that may look like they have Cap problems, may not really have Cap problems. Even with Rathje coming off the books, Philly might have to do something if Hatcher started the season on the roster.

By Alan

August 22, 2008 3:14 PM | Link to this

Their cap numbers do not take into account players that will be put on LTIR before the season starts.

And with that, one could also argue that every member of the hockey reporting media who have reported on or about teams above the cap have also missed the long-term injured reserve thing. But the fact is, those teams - most, if not all - will shed salary to teams who have a lot of cap space before the start of the season. While a team doesn’t necessarily have to shed cap space now, they will want to shed cap space so they can trade for rentals at the deadline.

By Brendan

August 22, 2008 3:48 PM | Link to this

TSN.ca Reporting former Thrasher Vitaly Vishnevsky has been placed on waivers

Anyone want him back??

By Sara

August 22, 2008 3:52 PM | Link to this

Ryan have to correct you on your draft scenario. To have a shot at the #1 pick, a team MUST finish within the bottom 5 clubs, because a club can only move up 4 positions in the draft order. For example, the team slotted for pick #5, wins #1 pick, moves up four spots and gets #1 pick. The team slotted for the #10 overall pick gets #1 pick in the lottery and moves up four spots to #6 overall, while the last-place team retains the 1st overall pick.

By Ryan

August 22, 2008 4:07 PM | Link to this

Thank you Sara. I did follow that statement with the doubtful “right?” but I should be more knowledgeable on the draft lottery. Still my crystal ball has us as a lock for a top 12 pick at worst and that is worth a whole lot more than some salary cap casualty.

By TNT

August 22, 2008 4:17 PM | Link to this

“By Brendan

August 22, 2008 3:48 PM | Link to this

TSN.ca Reporting former Thrasher Vitaly Vishnevsky has been placed on waivers

Anyone want him back??”

If he could play like he did before he got his brains scrambled in DC against the Caps. He never was the same after that game.

By Ryan

August 22, 2008 4:18 PM | Link to this

Oh yeah Brendan I don’t think there’s room as you already only have 3 spots for Klee, Exelby, Bogosian and Valabik so I don’t know if you cut Klee’s experience for the two rookies or Exelby might have a good year if he is concussion free.

By Tony C.

August 22, 2008 4:35 PM | Link to this

C’mon Ranallo-you know that Briere is such an artiste’ that you couldn’t hold his talents to just Synchronized Diving. He would be an immediate favorite for all the diving events, maybe even a surprise entry into the Men’s Gymnastics Individual Floor Exercise (It involves a streamers and lots of rolling around on the floor-Briere’d be a natural)!!!

By Brendan

August 22, 2008 4:44 PM | Link to this

Atlanta gave up a 2nd round pick in 2007 for Vitaly Vishnevski, back in the 2006 offseason. At the 2007 trade deadline, Vishnevski was traded to Nashville for Center Eric Belanger, now with Minnesota.

By Gregg49

August 22, 2008 4:45 PM | Link to this

but Waddell may revert to his waiver wire pickup days to pick up a center or RW during camp?

Sloppy Seconds = Incompetence in Business

By glovesave29

August 22, 2008 6:23 PM | Link to this

Here’s an interesting story about the Preds giving Alexander Radulov a deadline to report to Nashville and honor the last year of his contract. What caught my attention was the fact the contract of $13M is TAX FREE. How is the KHL offering that? This league is going to be more of a problem that I had initially thought (and as I previously said here, I think they will be a MAJOR thorn in our side with enormous potential).

Professional athletes not only pay taxes in the city / state where their team is located, but also in the city / state where they play away games. The rationale there is that they earned some of their salary in their jurisdiction, so they have a right (HA!) to collect taxes on said earnings. This REALLY tips the scales in favor of the KHL.

http://www.sportsnet.ca/thewire/hockey/2008/08/22/predatorssetdeadline/

By ranallo10 (in AT)

August 22, 2008 6:50 PM | Link to this

Tony C. — You made me laugh…aloud. Thank you. And you’re right, I undervalued Briere’s contributions to the Olympic games. Streamers and rolling around is his calling…I’m sure he’s right at home in the tights too.

Brendan — I never minded Vishnevski as a third line guy, but there’s definitely no room for him here, even if a defender was shipped out. I’d rather Valabik or Bogosian get the ice time instead of Vishnevski, if a spot were cleared.

Russ — Kozlov is a versatile player, and a proven top line talent. I would rather see him playing the right wing on a top line than see him relegated to a defensive line (checking or 3rd line) role. Personally, I wouldn’t mind seeing him alongside Little and Kovalchuk…true he’d be out of position, but it’s not entirely new for him, and he plays on that side during the PP. If anyone can adjust quickly, he can…plus those linemates will definitely keep him on his toes.

I agree about Sterling, I’d rather see him in a position to succeed — something that Hartley didn’t do for him for an extended period of time. The Chicago line (Sterling, Little, Haydar) was the best line in my opinion (outside of Kovalchuk and Hossa’s line) but it was only together for 5 games or so. Sterling, a goal scorer, is only useful in the top offensive lines…if he’s not going to play there he may as well be dealt, because I don’t think he can improve any more in the minors (much like Valabik).

By HookyBob

August 22, 2008 7:51 PM | Link to this

Two names I’ve read on todays’ blog, multiple times, are Gionta and Sterling.

While I like, really like, both players,…I gotta say I want Toby to remain our smallest player. I’m of the opinion that there is room for one, maybe two short, players on our team. (Exclude Valibeck and we simply don’t have much in the way of size.) Any second short player would have to both fast and built like a fire hydrant (ie Bryan Trottier). Perhaps a bit less stocky and more shifty, a la Mark Savard, would work.

I’d also like to see at least 3 players who are “enforcers” ahead of Kovy. And I wouldn’t be opposed to parking Valibeck directly in front of the opposing goalie on the power play (even if it didn’t work with Andy S).

I’m 5’7” (stocky,… but oh so soft) so any prejudice comes from looking in the mirror (OMG!). I’m of the opinion the Thrashers need to get a bigger and grittier. I think there is more room on our roster for someone with size, and an edge, than there is for small talent. Size and edge like Mike Komerisk,..who I would love to have on our blue line. Finally, if not size, give me another Dan Snyder for right wing.

Fellow bloggers, do the Thrashers need some more size and edge?

By Smitty

August 22, 2008 8:24 PM | Link to this

Rawhide Here is the link. Apologies for taking so long

http://www.globesports.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20080820.wsptduha20/GSStory/GlobeSportsHockey/home

By Alan

August 22, 2008 8:40 PM | Link to this

Fellow bloggers, do the Thrashers need some more size and edge?

Valabik is a good start, but I’d say we need a true bona-fide enforcer forward as well. If the team as a whole can exhibit more backbone as well, that would be awesome and much needed, since last years team took way too much abuse and didn’t stand up for themselves or each other much at all.

By Bob

August 22, 2008 9:17 PM | Link to this

Fellow bloggers, do the Thrashers need some more size and edge?

Uh, yeah. Sterling was given plenty of opportunities last year, his game did not translate to the NHL, too easily ridden off the puck (see Charmin, Todd for example A of this). I like the idea of a club that skates Thorburn with Kovy, lets Stuart have regular shifts, skates LaValle on the checking line, and competes. This is hockey I could watch, in a build year

By ranallo10 (in AT)

August 22, 2008 9:37 PM | Link to this

I didn’t realize 13 games of NHL experience, 12:24 average time on ice, and being forced to play a position you’ve never played before (RW) all qualified as being given plenty of opportunities.

I think you’re jumping the gun a bit on Sterling here, can you agree? I know, he’s old for a prospect, but he’s not been given a lasting chance, let alone a fair one. True, not many players break into the league at his age and set the NHL afire, but nobody’s claiming he can do that. Size aside, what didn’t you like about the guy? He got rave reviews from the new Head Coach, and has lit up the AHL competition. Another 30+ NHL games should show us if he’s able to compete, but tossing in the towel on him now is premature.

By the way, the only forwards with less ATOI than Sterling were the other short stint rookies, Larsen, and the Greek Gods line. Also, only three players (Valabik, Lavallee, and Doell) played less games than Sterling last season.

Sorry, but you’re off on this one if you think he was given “plenty of opportunities”.

By R. Stroz

August 22, 2008 9:58 PM | Link to this

Are we going to have a replay of da Program and Ranallo World? :)

Those were the good ole days.

By ranallo10 (in AT)

August 22, 2008 10:05 PM | Link to this

If that’s what you’re looking for I’ve got one question for you Stroz…

Where is JP Vigier playing nowadays?

I think my favorite time of those good ole days was when The Program jokingly predicted Vigier would score a goal (at least, it was pretty obvious he was doing it tongue in cheek), and low-and-behold Vigier scored…TWICE! Ahhhh, good times.

By R. Stroz

August 22, 2008 10:10 PM | Link to this

Finally, a frontal attack from The Brian, LOL

Rawhide - please state for all your loyal readers that I am not Roswell Thrasherfan.

Brian - Yes, you are “The” Brian…and from what you have TOLD me, you aren’t “Roswell Thrasherfan”.

And the Chinese TOLD the IOC that the little girls on the Chinese gymnastic team were all 16 years of age.

LMAO

Brian - that doesn’t sound like much of a confirmation to me, ya troll.

By Tony C.

August 22, 2008 10:13 PM | Link to this

I agree vis-a-vis Sterling. That said, with the current logjam at skill LW…It might be in everyone’s best interest to move him.

I know Coach Walrus is high on the guy, and he has shown he can finish-too early to give up on him? who knows? Enough precedent to see if SlavaMatic can play @ RW? I think so. Now, is that what we’ll see? I think once big-boy camp opens, we’ll know a lot better.

But for all you guys who rank 3rd & 4th line slots by how much point production that player has/had-c’mon!

I mean Kirk Maltby is a honest-to-goodnes Hero in Motown-and although it’s for scoring some of the most clutch goal in team history. Now is he going to be remembered for his scoring touch?

No.

The guy earned his stripes as a shut-down defensive forward (you may prefer the term “two-way forward”…I think that gives him more O-ffensive credit than is warranted).

To break it down in a football analogy; Everyone wants to score touchdowns but not everyone plays RB, WR, TE or QB. But, everyone needs the guys on the O-line to perform their assignments at a high level so those “skill players” can shine.

Just like the RG you never heard about until he signed that big contract, defensively responsible forwards in hockey are indespensible-and you wouldn’t ask Terrel Owens to block a DT-just like you shouldn’t ask Brett Sterling to be a grinder.

By ranallo10 (in AT)

August 22, 2008 10:15 PM | Link to this

Wait wait wait, back up a second…

so just because they SAY they’re 16, doesn’t mean they are???

DAMMIT!! Now I know why Savard left Atlanta.

By Brendan

August 22, 2008 10:15 PM | Link to this

I like Brett Sterling. And I hope he succeeds in the NHL. I’ve been following his career since his days at Colorado College, where he was a runner-up for the Hobey Baker. I’m thrilled for him having such a great season and a professional championship to his credit (AHL).

But I’ve got to start being objective. I can’t call Sterling some “can’t miss” prospect to make the team. For a 145th overall draft selection, I don’t think Don Waddell did poorly. Waddell can already point to the Calder Cup Championship as an element of success. Let’s just see what Sterling can do in camp. And if he makes the team, let’s see if he’s still there at Christmas time.

Re: Vishnevski, I don’t know that Vitaly would even consider Atlanta if Waddell offered it to him. Vishnevski never chose Atlanta. He was traded here, after a $1.55 million arbitration hearing award was given to him in Anaheim. What a journey it’s been for Vishnevski. Anaheim, Atlanta, Nashville, NJ … I wonder where he’ll land next? When he arrived in Atlanta, he was billed as “a heavy hitter.” But I agree with Ranallo and Ryan, I just don’t think there’s room here anyway. I think it’s important to get Bogosian some NHL experience. I think it was Craig Custance who said the he expected Bogosian to be given serious consideration for the Captaincy of the Thrashers, if Kovalchuk leaves in 2010.

By R. Stroz

August 22, 2008 10:16 PM | Link to this

ranallo10 - Didn’t you move across the pond to be closer to J.P. Vigier? Ha Ha!

Last I heard the Hunchback of Notre Dame was playing somewhere in Europe.

I bet Vigier hasn’t scored two goals in a game since then.

By ranallo10 (in AT)

August 22, 2008 10:34 PM | Link to this

Brendan — From everything I’ve read about Bogosian, I think he’s got the right mindset and desire to succeed that would be a great captain in the future. Keep in mind that Kovalchuk might not want the captaincy. It’s not a new phenomenon, Ovechkin denied the offer last season…and those two are pretty good friends. I believe Jagr did the same. I wouldn’t be surprised in the least bit if Kovalchuk said “nyet” to the C, especially considering the lack of transactions geared towards improving his chances of getting another playoff appearance, and ultimately some victories. He may be content with an A, and might see the Captaincy offer as a pitiful attempt at swaying his mind towards re-signing.

Stroz — I’ve sent out the invite for Vigier to join Ms. Austria and I for dinner, but I haven’t received the RSVP yet. I’m sure it’s in the mail.

He’s playing in Switzerland last I checked, on Serge Aubin’s team. Switzerland is only a few hours away (think Western Alabama compared to Georgia), so it’s not TOO far off from where I ended up.

And I wouldn’t bet against you, you’re probably right. I’m sure he’s a “role player” in Switzerland too, blocking some young talents like LaVallee and Stuart from getting a chance to develop against top talent.

By R. Stroz

August 22, 2008 10:52 PM | Link to this

ranallo10 - I bet the people in Switzerland have a higher teeth per head count than the people in western Alabama.

By Brendan

August 22, 2008 10:56 PM | Link to this

Forgive me for this, but as we’re still in the dog days of Summer … and not much is really happening anyway, I’d love to hear some “hindsight” thoughts on Bob Hartley and the 2007 trade deadline decisions.

Putting aside the benching of Kovalchuk, telling Kari Lehtonen to play better, while riding the pine, and not really developing Coburn, Popovic, or Sterling, hear now the question:

“Would it have been better to stand pat at the 2007 trade deadline, and accept whatever results followed, even if it meant missing the playoffs, or was it necessary to help Bob Hartley add the players that Waddell never got for him right from training camp?”

Bear in mind, this is not some question designed at starting World War III. It’s topic board. Ya know, where “topics” are discussed. By people who love and support the Thrashers, wish them well, and hope for the best.

To help get us started, if no 2007 trade deadline moves were made … it doesn’t mean, NECESSARILY, that Atlanta would have missed the playoffs. But they were TANKING fast, having blown a decent-sized lead on Tampa Bay, only to see the Bolts temporarily grab the division lead.

If no trade deadline moves were made in 2007 … and the Thrashers missed the playoffs … would Waddell have fired Hartley at the end of the season, or just not renewed him, and brought in John Anderson during the 2007 offseason? Remember, Hartley’s contract expired at the end of the 2007 season. The playoff berth either triggered an automatic contract extention for Hartley or Waddell flat out renewed Hartley on a 2-year deal either in April or at the conclusion of the playoffs. The Thrashers are, today, still eating that $1.2 million salary for Hartley.

If there were no 2007 trade deadline moves … in theory … former 2003 1st round draft pick, 8th overall, Braydon Coburn is still here, along with former 2005 1st round draft pick, 16th overall, Alex Bourret. Additionally, the Thrashers would have still possessed their 2007 1st and 3rd round picks, and their 2nd round pick in 2008 (#33 overall, Center Philip McRae was selected by St. Louis Blues). And, finally, the Thrashers would have still controlled the rights to Vitaly Vishnevski, at least until July 1, 2007.

If there were no 2007 trade deadline moves … Atlanta fans would have never been treated to Pascal Dupuis for a full year (February 2007 to February 2008), Keith Tkachuk, for a few months, Eric Belanger, for a few months, and Alexei Zhitnik from February 2007 to April 2008. And, obviously, Atlanta fans may have missed out on the Southeast Division Championship banner, hanging from the rafters of Philips Arena, and the known fact playoff berth that came from those 2007 trade deadline moves.

Okay … go!

By ranallo10 (in AT)

August 22, 2008 11:17 PM | Link to this

But they were TANKING fast, having blown a decent-sized lead on Tampa Bay, only to see the Bolts temporarily grab the division lead.

Seeing that the same team who gave them a huge lead in the division was still together when they started tanking, do you think that’s a product of poor personnel or a product of poor coaching? At one point the team is good enough to be in first in their division, but one month later sit in third and still falling down the standings…that’s a coaching problem to me, and is why coaches like Paddock and Hartley, who might’ve been good coaches once, are fired mid season.

Personally, I think Hartley’s system was stagnant, and evidence of such was in the collapse of the franchise and their ultimate limping into the playoffs. I thought that then, and definitely got into many heated debates over that opinion.

However, what I stated then I still maintain today…with ADJUSTMENTS from the coaching staff I believe the Thrashers would’ve made the playoffs sans Tkachuk and Zhitnik and even possibly Belanger. Hartley wouldn’t play Coburn, Hartley wouldn’t mix it up on the failing PP, and Hartley continued to rely on bad PK units. Waddell gave him a team that roared into first place before Christmas, and Hartley took that team and blew the lead by February. Waddell then made necessary moves to save the team (who rolled into the playoffs), and Hartley lead that team nowhere in the playoffs.

I don’t think Hartley’s time here was a complete waste (look at Kovalchuk’s development, which I give credit to Hartley for doing), but his overall lack of a fluid gameplan, one that changed depending on the competition and THEIR gameplan, was the ultimate demise of this franchise.

Personally, I think the draft picks are irrelevant (if changed, history wouldn’t repeat itself, so there’s no telling where the picks would’ve fallen)…so all I can base my opinion on is what I saw from the product. The product went from first in the division, to third, in a short time period…yet nothing changed. The GM did his job, brought in some improvements, and the ship was righted. Upon entrance into the playoffs (when the GM has no control anymore over the makeup of the roster), the team fell flat on its face and looked completely unprepared.

All of those failing fall on one person (and his staff)…Bob Hartley. True, Waddell could’ve given him BETTER pieces, but as a coach you’re only measured on how well you do with the pieces you are given…not on the pieces you SHOULD’VE been given.

So yeah, Hartley isn’t perfect, and neither is Waddell, but Hartley’s firing was 6 games too late, and the fallout is still being felt. (that statement is a change from my original stance of keeping Hartley on through the first 10 games, but after an 0-6 uninspired start I changed my mind rather easily)

By Alan

August 22, 2008 11:27 PM | Link to this

“Would it have been better to stand pat at the 2007 trade deadline, and accept whatever results followed, even if it meant missing the playoffs, or was it necessary to help Bob Hartley add the players that Waddell never got for him right from training camp?”

Making the playoffs in 2007 helped Kovalchuk realize exactly what an exhilarating experience it can be. It also made him want more playoffs, even if he has to carry his team himself.

And remember last season, for that brief moment we had sole possession of first place? Kovalchuk carried us to that point, practically by himself, because it didn’t seem like anyone else really wanted it as badly as he did. He wanted it again badly, and you can look back on the season ending interview with him and read how he was disappointed with his year, despite his numbers.

Yeah, you can also look back and see how unhappy he was at management, and you can infer that he wants to be traded to a contender, and other sorts of things. But I think 2007 has a lot to do with what kind of player he has become today, and how he pretty much took the captaincy from Holik and ran with it, despite merely wearing an A on his sweater..

By ranallo10 (in AT)

August 22, 2008 11:30 PM | Link to this

Alan — Very good points.

By R. Stroz

August 22, 2008 11:52 PM | Link to this

Brendan - Here’s another scenario:

What is some of the trades were made and others weren’t?

Didn’t Kovy really develop leadership skills while Tkachuk was with the team?

Hartley was responsible for finally forcing Kovy to become more of a two way player. However, I think Tkachuk was responsible for teaching Kovy leadership skills.

So despite the loss of draft picks, Tkachuk was responsible for a more mature Kovy last season. Would Kovy have developed those leadership skills without Tkachuk, I don’t know?

So in retrospect, which trades were the most rewarding and least rewarding in the long run?

On another point, I think Hartley should have been canned after the playoff disaster. As stated above, the goalie rotation that season was terrible, the offense should have been named the no motion offense, the containment defense scheme didn’t contain anything, the PP was stagnant, and the PK, well, sucked.

By R. Stroz

August 23, 2008 12:29 AM | Link to this

What is some of the trades were made and others weren’t?

Lets try this instead:

What if some of the trades were made and others weren’t?

By Brendan

August 23, 2008 12:46 AM | Link to this

Excellent discussion, Ranallo, Alan, and R.Stroz. See, this is when our board is at its best, I think. Nobody’s yelling at each other, or making accusations, or necessarily advancing some agenda. We’re just calmly talking about our team.

In retrospect, I’d like to also ask this: “Would it have been better to fire Hartley in mid-season, say January 2007, when the team began tanking?”

I know. Someone might say, “Yeah, how do you know Waddell wouldn’t have hired Pat Quinn to coach, or something?” I don’t. We don’t know. But that still seemed unlikely to me. Quinn is a former GM and I, for some reason, don’t believe Waddell would even want to invite the speculation that he’s next to be canned in 2007, and that Quinn will take his role as GM.

One wonders what might have happened had John Anderson been hired in January 2007, to replace Hartley? Who knows, they might have promoted McCrimmon at that point, with another year still left on his contract anyway?

From my perspective, I had a higher opinion of Hartley before his stint with the Thrashers than after. But that doesn’t mean I think he’s some God-awful coach. I don’t think that. What I think is this: Hartley is a better coach when he’s got a better roster. But, uhhh, that’s probably true of most coaches. There are some things that Tier I players do … that just cannot be coached. And when we witness it, we just marvel at it. And say things like, “That move/play was just incredible. You can’t coach something like that. That’s inherent within the player.”

Carry on, folks. It’s been great discussion so far.

By Brendan

August 23, 2008 1:01 AM | Link to this

R. Stroz, which trades would you have kept and which ones would you have declined?

By Alan

August 23, 2008 1:16 AM | Link to this

Hey Rawhide, speaking of perceptions and realities, Mike Toth of Sportsnet.ca thinks Pittsburgh may have something like this in their future. He also discusses other topics… none of which say anything about the Thrashers. So we have that going for us… so far.

By R. Stroz

August 23, 2008 1:24 AM | Link to this

From my perspective, I had a higher opinion of Hartley before his stint with the Thrashers than after.

Agreed. In Custance’s interview, he stated the playoff disaster put Atlanta hockey back five years. Now, I don’t know if I’d take it that far, however, that playoff series did suck the wind out of the sails.

We all were privy to some foreshadowing of that playoff series earlier in the year. How many times that year did the Thrashers come out flat on Friday and Saturday night sell out games that season? It seemed like everytime the average Atlanta fan was getting curious about hockey and showing up at the arena, the Thrashers came out flat and ran the fans right out of the building.

We often joked that we hoped the game wasn’t a selllout because the Thrashers would lose, and, in most cases, that was true. It wasn’t until late in the season that the Thrashers finally won a sellout game. Anyway, the point is:

Why wasn’t the team prepared for the big weekend games? Why was the team so flat and uninspired? The poor performance for big weekend sellout games was when I really started to question the team’s coaching. You would think that the team would be jacked up; but, instead, they looked like they were hungover.

Anyway, the flat performances for weekend sellout games was truely a bad omen for the playoff series.

By R. Stroz

August 23, 2008 1:51 AM | Link to this

R. Stroz, which trades would you have kept and which ones would you have declined?

In hindsight, the view is better.

Obviously, the Smoltz for Alexander, I mean the Coburn for Zhitnik trade was the worst. That said, I think that trade occured because of two organizational related factors.

One, the Wolves and Thrashers ran different systems as well as having different motives and owners. The Wolves were more concerned with filling seats than developing Thrasher prospects and Anderson and Hartley ran different systems.

Second, Hartley wasn’t in a position that year to develop prospects due to the need to “make the playoffs” that year. Also, Hartley wasn’t known for being patient with rookie mistakes.

Anyway, by far, the Coburn for Zhitnik trade was the biggest bust. However, there is a silver lining to that trade. Hopefully, in the future, there will be a greater emphasis on giving prospects the time and opportunity to develop. Also, maybe, the Thrashers and Wolves can try to get closer to being on the same page despite having different owners.

In my opinion, the best trade in retrospect was Bourret for Dupuis. Bourret still hasn’t turned into anything and Dupuis gave the team a speed and hustle element the team badly needed. Yes, Dupuis’ hands were somewhat hard; but, the guy gave it his all whenever on the ice.

Second best trade for the reasons mentioned above would be Metro and picks for Tkachuk.

Anyway, to sum up, I would keep the Dupuis, Tkachuk, and Belanger (didn’t feel like discussing this one in detail) trades but would dispose of the Coburn trade.

By ranallo10 (in AT)

August 23, 2008 6:28 AM | Link to this

Brendan — I think Hartley was fired at the right time. He was given the chance to succeed, despite having failed. I think Waddell was right to allow him to start the season and try to overcome the playoff [dis]appearance, and when the team came out flat…again…Waddell decided it was enough, end of story.

However, I think we all agree Anderson should’ve been hired in December. Another question I have about that situation is if some of the players and their feelings towards McCrimmon hindered the hiring of a new coach.

Let’s say that Hossa was vocally supportive of McCrimmon, as was Holik. Waddell came in and helped coach the team, basically allowing McCrimmon to run the show. The players, who wanted McCrimmon, get a bit happier, but the “faction” begins in the lockerroom between those wanting change/being unhappy with the situation, and those happy with the current “associate head coach”.

Loyalties can go a long way to dividing a team, especially if those loyalties are over the worthiness/quality/leadership of the head coach (or acting coach in this instance).

Looking back, I wouldn’t be surprised if the head coaching situation had a lot to do with divide in the locker room that we all hear about. It seems like nobody could contain the tension brought on by Hossa’s situation (that’s the Captains and Coaches job to diffuse such situations in the lockerroom), and things just boiled over and the result was poor hockey on the ice.

That’s all speculation on my part, but as I said I wouldn’t be surprised of your wiretaps come up with something similar to what I’m speculating.

Good stuff, I like these kind of discussions (as you said, no attacks on other people’s opinions).

Stroz — I was content with the three trades you mentioned, my least favorite being the Tkachuk deal because I felt Waddell overpaid (who just said “duh”?). My least favorite then, and now, was the Coburn trade. I know situation mandated the trade had to happen, but I didn’t like it then and have even more reason to not like it now. But that’s what happens when you have a coach who wont change…systems don’t adapt, players aren’t given a chance to succeed, and ultimately they go on to prove themselves on a different team. That’s a coaching problem in my opinion.

Kunitz and Coburn are two players I consider lost talents due to the head coach’s style.

By ranallo10 (in AT)

August 23, 2008 6:37 AM | Link to this

Sorry, I forgot to mention during my novella that the faction scenario then in turn hindered the potential promotion of Anderson, as Waddell saw his team leaders backing McCrimmon, who quite possibly Waddell didn’t feel confident in giving control of the team just yet.

The supporters become more vocal, so his first choice stays in Chicago.

It’s all assumption, but I could see player pressure affecting Waddell that much, especially if it’s your captain, superstar left wing, or soon to be free agent who you’re trying to appease.

By Red Light

August 23, 2008 9:17 AM | Link to this

We sit here just 82 games removed from the franchise’s first playoff appearance (debacle) with 11 of the 20 players that saw action in the Rangers’ series retired or on another roster. As it has been long debated, the price for those four playoff games was steep indeed, and now entering the team’s ninth season management decides that it needs to fully implement the youth movement.

In hindsight, that move should have been made in 2001-02 and 2002-03, but alas there was virtually no talent in the system. Yet we still watch Waddell stock the roster with the likes of White, Williams, Lessard, Perrin, Boulton, Slater, Larsen, Thorburn, Klee and Reasoner and we’re supposed to buy into the youth movement just because there’s a chance that Boris, Bogo, Little, Esposito, Lavalee and Machacek might contribute at some point in time.

How can you possibly believe that an 82 to 86 point season is justified with the current roster, and even if the Thrashers do “achieve” that total, miss the playoffs and get in the lottery, we got into year 10 with the same outlook we had going into year 5?

Five years of regression does not foster hope. If you’re really going in an all-out youth movement, White, Perrin, Boulton, Larsen and Reasoner don’t fit, nor does Klee or Hedberg. You stock a roster with veteran players when you have a chance for success (a shot at the playoffs), not when you’re trying to get younger and give kids an ample opportunity to get used to the NHL’s speed and grind.

Waddell (or someone) needs to find out what kids under the age of 25 can play now, not next year. If they can play, then play ‘em. If they can’t, move ‘em. Why he continues to sign short-term “fillers” rather than giving the kids ample opportunity is beyond me, and if you look at the call-up and send-down pattern Waddell has used during his entire tenure, it does nothing more than inhibit growth.

Rawhide: I think you’re great, but take 72 points and run with it!

By Sara

August 23, 2008 9:53 AM | Link to this

Like most everyone else, the only deal I had a real problem with was the Coburn-Zhitnik trade. I didn’t like that we had to make so many deals because it was a desperation move spawned by Hartley’s inability to actually coach a team. In Colorado, he mostly just had to supervise an already built, highly skilled and experienced team. In ATL, a coach has to earn his pay.

However in hindsight the thing that aggravates me the most was the club’s inability to capitalize on our first successful season. We’ve all discussed over this off-season ATL’s lack of allure for free agents. Yet this club was at its most attractive last off-season with both Kovy and Hossa still in the fold (and not showing lots of public discontent), coming off a division title and play-off berth (and it’s not like we are the first team in history to get swept out of the play-offs, especially given how many of our players had zero experience at that level). Yet for whatever reasons, the next-step moves did not get made. I think everyone expected K.T. to go back to STL. Losing Belanger smarted - he was definitely better than White, cheaper than White, and fit very well on our second unit with Hoss and Kozzie. I remember reading when he came over in the trade that his wife had been having issues with his relocations and had decided to live in Canada regardless of where he was, which I think is what led him to move toward the great white north. But it still stung. And we passed up on three premier centers for White (first player signed that FA year). Whether Waddell put out feelers for those three and got back very quick “no chance in heck”” responses or whether it was deemed we would not be able to afford them (due to actual cap restrictions or internal ones), we don’t and may never know. Regardless, there went our best chance for a top center outside of our own prospects.

To me it isn’t the play-off sweep that has set this franchise back, it was last season. The team could have done better than it did - we all saw it at various points during the season. We were in first in our division at one point. We whooped the crap out of Calgary and Detroit in two of the best games I have seen in the history of this franchise. But it all imploded inside that lockerroom from various ignition sources and someone should have taken the reigns earlier and put a stop to that.

My biggest lingering issues - how much damage was done by the Hossa situation? That has gotten blown into this huge indictment of the team. While it certainly seemed a fair assessment initially, with Hossa having thrown over a very talented club that took him to game 6 of the SCF, I think Hossa’s definition of “competitive club” does not jive with the thinking of the majority at this point. He isn’t looking for “competitive,” he’s looking for “sure thing.” Moreover, last year was the first year Donny broke with his tradition of not talking contracts during the season. I’ve always considered that one of his flaws (I personally think that is responsible for our loss of Savard). Now I’m afraid that all the tension and hoopla created by the Hossa situation will cause Donny to revert back to his old bad habit.

Secondly, has the departures of Hartley, Hossa, Holik, Recchi, and McCrimmon coupled with the arrival of Anderson been enough to dispel any lingering unpleasantness from last season’s locker/boiler room? We need these guys to have and retain a positive frame of mind in what I consider a crucial year for this club. They need to make great strides this season in determining what we have of value to keep and to show what this team will be capable of once all the right pieces are in place. The right attitude not only helps along our own achievements, it will send a message to other players around the league that this IS a team worth coming to play for.

By Brendan

August 23, 2008 2:20 PM | Link to this

Sara, I definitely think the Thrashers are taking a “first, next step” towards a new direction with the hiring of John Anderson. It is, essentially, a clean slate inside the lockerroom. It’s fresh, new blood, unless you’re a former Chicago Wolf. Well, I think Weeks is still returning as a coach.

Geeze Louise, what about Waddell, Brendan??!!! Waddell is not going to be behind the bench again this season. Lest some something absolutely terrible happens. Now, I hear ya. Irrespective of whether Waddell is behind the bench, his presence affects things and “perceptions,” which is the theme of this blog. But will Waddell’s retention as GM be a source of acrimony in the lockerroom?

Before we answer that question, Waddell actually drafted quite a few of the players who will potentially be in that lockerroom, including Kovalchuk. What’s the “mood” on this? Do players resent the GM that drafted them? Slater, Little, Sterling, Stuart, LaVallee, Pavelec, Lehtonen, Kovalchuk, Exelby, Bogosian, Enstrom, and Valabik … they’re all Waddell draft picks.

I want to shift gears back to this 2007 Playoffs, before the topic is entirely put to bed. I have this question for the bloggers: “What was ‘the story’ of the 2007 Playoffs?” It’s open-ended. But I’ll give you a few choices, if you prefer. (1) Bob Hartley, himself, was the story. (2) Hartley’s “goaltender rotation” was ‘the story.’ (3) Bad breaks and bounces, especially the weird carom off the glass that eluded Hedberg was ‘the story.’ (4) A lack of heart was ‘the story.’ (5) Kari Lehtonen’s “meltdown” in Game Three and less than perfect peformance Game One opening the floodgates was ‘the story.’ (6) Hartley had the “wrong game plan” for the Rangers … and that was ‘the story.’ or (7) the lackluster ownership, placing ‘ultimatums’ on the GM and Head Coach, to make the playoffs OR ELSE was ‘the story.’ The net result of which was that players who didn’t choose to be in Atlanta were forced to gel in a short period of time, and adjust to Head Coach, who, perhaps, had already lost the room.

Discuss!

By R. Stroz

August 23, 2008 2:55 PM | Link to this

(8) All of the above

By Brendan

August 23, 2008 3:11 PM | Link to this

Welcome back, Red Light. I agree with you on your post that the youth movement is what Atlanta should have tried right from the beginning. I think this is something Russ has also said. But, like you said, there wasn’t a lot in the pipeline in 2001-02. Well, with Stefan, Nurminen, Exelby, Heatley, and Kovalchuk coming out of the 1999, 2000, and 2001 drafts, there was at least “something.”

Luke Sellars, defenseman, 30th overall, 1999, didn’t turn into a major force. Blatny, LW, was taken in the 3rd round, 68th overall. Derek MacKenzie was a Center drafted 128th, in 1999. Garnet Exelby was taken 217th, in the 9th round, but wasn’t ready by the 2001-02 season. Tommi Santala, selected 245th, did play in the NHL. Stephen Baby never materialed into a force. He was selected 188th overall, in 1999.

In 2000, Simon Gamache was taken 290th and did play in the NHL. Darcy Hordicuk was taken in 6th round, 180th overall, in 2000. He’s still in the NHL. Our 2nd round picks in 2000 were Nikulin, 31st overall, and Libor Istrnul, 42nd overall, a pair of blueliners. Of course, Heatley went 2nd overall. Moving right along.

In 2001, the draftees included Kovalchuk, 1st overall, and Michael Garnett, remember him?, in the 3rd round, 80th overall. Brian Sipotz was our 4th round pick, 100th overall, defenseman. Colin Stuart, Center, was picked in the 5th round, 135th overall. Pasi Nurminen was up next, at 189th, in the 6th round. No other notable names came out of that draft year. By the time the 2002 draft came along, some of those draft picks ought to have been starting to make strides. But they’re roster spots were taken by other AHL players and NHL castoffs, at an affordable price.

In 2002, Kari Lehtonen and Jim Slater were 1st round picks. Nathan Oystrick, who has to potential to be a call-up or a huge surprise at camp, was found in the 7th round, 198th overall.

Who knows what might have happened had the Thrashers tried to make the best of it with those draft picks. Nikulin, to this day, hasn’t played for Atlanta. Imagine if that pick has been better utilized?

By Alan

August 23, 2008 4:47 PM | Link to this

Here’s an article out of Rome about Dan Kamal and his take on the Thrashers’ upcoming season.

By ranallo10 (in AT)

August 23, 2008 6:42 PM | Link to this

Brendan — I remember you in particular referring to the drafting of Russians as a risk vs. reward situation (general idea, not your specific statement). I would be willing to bet that given Nikulin’s pro career thus far, and international career, that draft pick was a well placed risk. IF Nikulin had come over and excelled, it would be a fine pick to go along with the Exelby’s and Nurminen’s of this team’s history…but merely because Nikulin is not here (yet, if ever), many consider that pick wasted.

By Sara

August 23, 2008 7:22 PM | Link to this

Brendan you bring back up an issue that we have looked at a good bit in the last couple of years and that is how this team has drafted compared to other teams in the league. All the data I have ever seen (and as some of you will recall I did some extensive research on this issue as did Custance) showed that the Thrashers are middle of the pack in the league in terms of how many drafted players have made the roster. The harder debate is the value or quality of the draft picks compared to the impact other teams have had from their drafted players. That’s a very hard thing to really examine because I think every person has different criteria. Some people consider Slater to be a “waste” - primarily because he is a first round pick playing a fourth-line role. Personally, I think any player that becomes a consistent roster player equates to a non-wasted draft pick. When one looks at draft classes, a lot of guys taken in the first round never play in the NHL or do so only for a short time. Regardless of what line Slater is on, he is in fact an NHL regular. But that’s my outlook as I said, hence the reason the “quality” debate is so difficult.

We can look back to the early years and say we should have had those players up earlier but there are no guarantees. Look what happened to Stefan - he buckled under the pressure of being “THE GUY” for a new expansion franchise. It was a mistake Waddell later admitted to. Some guys need more development time than others. And keep in mind it is hard to compare the Thrashers to all the other teams in the league because we have had a shorter history and amount of time to draft and develop our talent. Players for Detroit are kept in their farm system for YEARS before being brought up. A lot of that is a testament to the long-term planning of Ken Holland…they don’t need those players to be ready as fast as a younger franchise like this one. Given more years, the Thrashers may be able to get to that point. We aren’t necessarily all that far away. Look at our log-jam at D coming into this year while players like Oystrick and Kulda still wait in the wings in Chicago for their time to shine. Goal is another example. We have two very capable netminders right now with another potential crackerjack in our system that we don’t need right now. Unfortunately we lack that depth at some forward positions but Rome wasn’t built in a day as they say. If we can continue to retain our depth at G and D and now turn the focus to gaining depth at C and W, this club will be in a very good place.

Ultimately we can wish for better results (like Nikulin being on this side of the pond) but there’s a larger picture involved in issues like these. Though it’s easy to chomp at the bit after so many years of disappointment, this club is still young compared to the majority of the rest of the league and the Thrashers are not the only ones limited to the frustration of poor performance. Their time will eventually come - sooner is better obviously, but it will come.

By Scotty

August 23, 2008 7:44 PM | Link to this

I think Red Light is close to right on his prediction of 72 points. I just don’t see them doing much better. But it’s going to be the first season for the new coach so a little patience is required.

By Brendan

August 23, 2008 9:35 PM | Link to this

Sara, I think so, too. In my view, if a GM drafts a player somewhere around 20th overall and beyond, and that player actually plays in the NHL for 3-5 seasons, how can it be a “wasted” draft pick? Uhh, unless it’s for some OTHER team, whereby the drafting team didn’t get good compensation for his departure. :)

Again, a brief explanation is probably in order. While certainly franchise players are found beyond 20th overall in their respective draft years, I think it’s a bit unreasonable for fans to “expect” them to be found there. As a general guideline, the Top 5 picks are what I term “can’t miss” type prospects. Picks 1-10 carry a certain expectation with them. Picks 11-14 are a bit more hazy. For picks 15-30, I use the term, “crapshoot.” And for picks 31 and beyond, I describe as “a shot in the dark.” Some GM’s consistently find players with that “shot in the dark.” And they, and their scouting staffs, rightly get credit for their achievements.

For years, this message board slammed Patrik Stefan for being a 3rd line center. As a 1st overall draft pick, that’s not where “expectations” placed him. But 1999 was one of the weaker draft years, in my opinion. Havlat, at 26th overall, was regarded, for quite some time, as the “prize” of the 1st round. 1999, for me, is the exception that proves the rule that, generally-speaking, the Top 5 picks are where “can’t miss prospects” are found. But not always.

Henrik and Daniel Sedin have improved their value a bit as time has gone by. Pavel Brendl, selected 4th overall by the NY Rangers, 1999, played all of 78 NHL games between 2001 to 2006, for Philly, Carolina, and finally Phoenix. The NYR traded Brendl to get Eric Lindros in 2001, to soften the blow of that pick.

At the conclusion of the 2007 season, Stefan played some 65 more games than Tim Connolly, who was drafted 5th overall in Stefan’s draft year (‘99). Through the 2007 season, however, Stefan had only one more goal than Connolly to show for those additional 65 games. (64-63.)

The Ottawa Senators, regarded by many as “draft royalty,” selected Alexandre Daigle, 1st overall, in 1993. His most prolific goal scoring year, 1997, saw him pot 26 goals and reach a career-best 51-points for the season, replicating the point total of his rookie year in 1994. Daigle never lived up to “expectations,” but he did play 10 seasons in the league, including five for Ottawa. Patrik Stefan, now retired due to injury, played seven seasons in the NHL, including six for Atlanta. While Atlanta never got what it hoped from Stefan, given his draft position, his selection was not a total loss. But considering Stefan was the 1st-ever Thrashers draft pick, expectations were magnified. In that regard, I think Stefan was in a very comparable situation with Alexandre Daigle, who was drafted in just the second draft year of the Ottawa franchise.

I always said, “if you can overlook the fact that he IS a 1st overall pick, Stefan is not a bad 3rd line center.” Had Stefan been some 3rd round draft pick, I think many Thrasher fans would have a higher opinion of him, and wouldn’t label him as a “wasted” pick. I sincerely hope that Nikulin will, eventually, play for the Thrashers. But if he doesn’t, we gambled and lost, with a high-end 2nd round pick, at a critical time in the franchise’s development. But, as we saw, it didn’t completely derail the Thrashers organization. Had Kari Lehtonen not injured in his groin, and Pasi Nurminen not blown out his knee, and Steve Shields not pulled his groin, pressing Michael Garnett and Adam Berkhoel into service, 2006 would have been a playoff year for Atlanta. Bygones.

By Disgusted Fan

August 23, 2008 9:47 PM | Link to this

Whatever deals he makes, please, God, don’t let dumb a** Donnie trade away the first round pick, it might be really good this year and even Donnie can’t blow a pick that good (well he can - think Patrick Stefan for starters). Build through the draft, not the over-priced discards from over the cap teams.

By Alan

August 23, 2008 10:06 PM | Link to this

even Donnie can’t blow a pick that good (well he can - think Patrick Stefan for starters).

Štefan was considered a “can’t miss” draft pick, back in 1999. And if Atlanta hadn’t picked him, the team who was supposed to draft first — Tampa Bay — would have. We, and the rest of the NHL, have seen that he was a draft pick bust. He has since retired.

There are certain things you could say about what Don Waddel has (and hasn’t) done in his tenure as GM of this organization, but don’t be disingenuous in your arguments against him. There are plenty of things you can criticize him with, and picking Štefan just isn’t one of them.

Don’t let your disgust get in the way of the facts.

By Disgusted Fan

August 23, 2008 10:12 PM | Link to this

Taking Brendan’s well thougt out discussion of Donnie’s past draft boo boos, let’s look at the organizations first round picks since day one and rate same:

Thrashers First-round draft picks

1999: Patrik Stefan (1st overall) - ‘nuff said

2000: Dany Heatley (2nd overall) - Developed well, wanted out due to his poor driving judgment and the aftereffects thereof - has disappeared in the NHL playoffs though

2001: Ilya Kovalchuk (1st overall) - couldn’t miss here, if we don’t get him a legitimate ist line center he will be gone, however

2002: Kari Lehtonen (2nd overall) - a bit of a disappointment. Yes, goalies develop more slowly, but has let poor play in front of him impact his play, not a take charge person

2002: Jim Slater (30th overall) - disappointing to date, third line center maybe

2003: Braydon Coburn (8th overall) - hard to say, was so so with the Trashers and was traded in perhaps the single worst trade I can think I have seen. Maybe not Len Barker bad, but close Good pick, really bad trade.

2004: Boris Valabik (10th overall) - jury is still out on this one

2005: Alex Bourret (16th overall) - bad, bad, bad

2006: Bryan Little (12th overall) - At this point, looking like a solid AHL’er, NHL career is still in doubt

2007: none - that didn’t help

2008: Zach Bogosian (3rd overall) - pretty hard to blow this one, ought to be a solid NHL player sooner than later, but then again so was Braydon Coburn. If we didn’t have to draft a D-man here we could have picked Nikita Filatov to play with Ilya, could have been magic.

2008: Daultan Leveille (29th overall) - too soon to say, hopefully not another Jim Slater

So there you have it. Short of trading it away, the Trashers ought to have another no brainer first round pick this go round.

By Viking

August 23, 2008 10:15 PM | Link to this

Can not remember what triggered me to make this reflection about wasted Euro picks;

Draft picks are either developed in North America or abroad. Some make it, some don’t. Among the “failures”, a few NHL appearances or an AHL career does not make North American picks less “wasted” than the ones that ended up staying overseas.

By Disgusted Fan

August 23, 2008 10:34 PM | Link to this

Alan - respectfully, my saying Stefan was a bust is not being disengenuous with repect to Donnie’s having picked him. I am quite sincere in my belief that Waddell has failed to get the job done and have stated that in this blog numerous times. Donnie should have been tossed some time ago but has not because team ownership has been sad, at best. I sincerely (and not disengenuously - thanks for that though, don’t see that much in blogs, more so in legal briefs) think he is a poor NHL GM. I would posit that Donnie does, in fact, s*ck as a GM.

By ThrasherNY

August 23, 2008 11:12 PM | Link to this

“What was ‘the story’ of the 2007 Playoffs?”: The story was Hartley’s lack of confidence in his team. While the goalie debocle was the most visible sign; I thought the “physical play” game plan was the real give away. Let me explain that better. I know it was playoff hockey and every check is finished a little stronger but I felt he instructed the team that we needed to out hit the Rangers. If you will to play a “physical game”. That was not our game. While it appeared to be working in the first game it seemingly drained all of our energy. Most importlantly it wasnt our game. We were flat by the end of game two and dead in the water the rest of the series.

In my opinion the retaining of Hartley was a bigger mistake then the Coburn trade. Bold statement in the light of how bad we know the trade was but here is my logic. That awful trade was made because the team, the town and the owners saw the playoffs on the horizen and everyone was hungry. DW had pressure from all sides and while a proper GM is not in that spot the moves were excuseable. In response he took some big chances to make us a competitive team. At the conclusion of those trades I have to think that DW thought we had a competitive squad. Why else would he pay such a lofty price. So if you follow me thus far I ask you why on earth did he not fire the coach after he completely tanked it with a competitive squad. We were swept in an ugly fashion and therefor there is no excuse for DW keeping Hartley.

By ThrasherNY

August 23, 2008 11:24 PM | Link to this

Kamal I find it interesting that he is quoted saying that we have the goaltending to be competitive this season. I could swear we have the exact same goalies?? I am wondering why he didnt reference the “improved” blueline??

By JLH

August 24, 2008 12:02 AM | Link to this

a place we could dump white could be the islanders. do some sort of trade like white for sim. I know it isn’t the best of deals but the islanders need some talent and when sim was here he played better than any other team he had ever been on. he had been on two other teams before he got to us so I guess third times the charm.

By Alan

August 24, 2008 12:47 AM | Link to this

Alan - respectfully, my saying Stefan was a bust is not being disengenuous with repect to Donnie’s having picked him.

It is being disingenuous, in that it’s continually being brought up. It’s not Waddell’s fault he picked him. The kid was the highest ranked draft pick of a 1999 draft class that was actually considered pretty deep. Very few first rounders have actually made it to the NHL from the 1999 draft year. Does that mean every single GM that picked in the first round in 1999 failed as bad or worse than Waddell?

I sincerely…think he is a poor NHL GM.

I too sincerely think he’s a poor GM. I want him out just as much as some of the rest of us. I just choose to not make a big deal out of it.

Be disgruntled all you want, but please quit repeating things that isn’t his fault.

From now on, I’ll just try to ignore these ramblings and instead focus on some of the better discussion points that take place here.

By Brendan

August 24, 2008 1:08 AM | Link to this

ThrasherNY, I was thinking that, too. Here Hartley was in his “contract year,” and the 2007 season results were going to make or break him. Well, we saw a team that had seemingly tuned him out. Waddell saw a problem and waited as long as he could towards the trade deadline to afford the pieces he brought in, at a prorated salary. With the infusion of these new players, perhaps Hartley could reconnect with the room.

Honestly, in a different organization, both Hartley and Waddell would have been fired after the 2007 playoff sweep. But Waddell still had a year left on his contract. And, in my opinion, the owners actually do like Waddell and respect him. So, they didn’t fire him.

And, reportedly, Waddell urged the ownership to give Hartley a 2-year contract extension. As the ownership has total faith in Waddell, they signed off on it. Waddell’s comments, after the 2007 season ended, were, “I’m behind Bob Hartley 100-percent.” We bloggers snickered, and assumed the kiss of death was upon him. But Waddell was true to his word. Hartley got his new deal.

But I cannot, and do not, fault Waddell for firing Hartley after the 0-6-0 start last season. That’s 0-10-0, dating back to April 2007. Obviously, a change had to be made. Now normally, a GM doesn’t get to name three (3) Head Coaches in his tenure with a club, without some extenuating circumstances. And well, Atlanta has plenty of those.

I’m hard pressed to think of a GM who would pound on the door to go work for the ASG. It’s amazing that we have one who does. His name is Don Waddell. And he’s smack dab in the middle of his 2nd chance at building this club. I hope he does better this time. I hope Zach Bogosian is a safe and conscientious driver, who has a softness in his heart for the Chevy Geo.

By Sara

August 24, 2008 8:26 AM | Link to this

1999 - Patrik Stefan (C) 12 draftees played < 100 games, 3 never played at all. Only 4 players have more points than Stefan, 3 of them being picks within the top 5.

2000 - Heatley (W) We’ll move right along because this was a solid pick, everyone agrees on that. It just ended badly in a situation completely out of the organizations control.

2001 - Kovy (W) Again we’ll move right along. Best player in his draft class, hands down.

2002 - Lehtonen (G), Slater (C) This one is interesting. Because we are talking about a goalie, the comparison should really be to other goalies we could have drafted. (As a reminder, this team had been having nightmares in G up to this point - it was our weakest position by far and while one could argue there might have been better players to choose for more impact, Don addressed a specific need - kinda like this year’s draft.) Now, the only other goalies drafted in 2002 were Ward and Toivenen…so compare at will.

As for Slater…last pick of the first round so these stats reflect people drafted before him. 19 draftees have fewer GP than Slater, including 4 who never played, 1 who played one game, one who played in 3. By comparison, players drafted in the second round behind Slater of note and comparable position: Jarrett Stoll (36th) and Matt Stajan (57th).

2003 - Coburn (D) Good pick, bad trade.

2004 - Valabik (D) Only 12 players from that draft class have played in over 100 games, so the jury is still somewhat out for that year in general and Valabik in particular since he will likely begin his full-time NHL career this season.

2005 - Bourret (F) Bust more than likely. To note, however, he is one of 10 draftees who have never played an NHL game, 3 others are under 10 GP. Only 3 players from that draft year have played in over 100 games.

2006 - Little (C) Only two players have seen over 100 GP thus far - Kessel and J. Staal. 16 have yet to play at all and only 7 have more GP than Little at this point. The kid looks promising, but it is still way too soon to tell about him or the draft class.

2007 - Nobody It’s easy to reflect in hindsight that trading the pick was pointless. However, keep in mind the motivations behind the trade, what other trades could have been made instead (another C for Kovy was the aim).

2008 - Bogosian (D) Obviously too soon to tell but preliminary indications are Bogey = stud.

Now, all those stats are comparisons of strictly the first rounds unless otherwise noted. So, take the facts and evaluate them.

Personally, I see more good than bad, though obviously we are talking about a lot of higher-round draft picks. Weighing issues like losing a first-round pick, Bourret, and trading away Coburn weigh against the brilliance that is Kovy and the potential of Little and Bogosian (I don’t expect Valabik to be exceptional, just steady). Heatley is what it is. Stefan was a servicable player who crumpled under too much early career pressure. Slater is a steady 4th-liner, not a phenom but he works hard and has a great attitude. So, overall, about average.

Is averaage good enough? We’re an expansion franchise in a non-traditional market with problems attracting top-tier FAs. So under those circumstances, average likely isn’t good enough to produce a true winner. However, if given a few more years to catch up to the rest of the league, we might see something different in evaluation. We’ve had 10 drafts - players would be 28-ish from the first draft. Many players still have significant impact into their early thirties (generally) - so teams that were drafting up to four years ahead of the Thrashers could have acquired more players to really impact their rosters even in this upcoming season.

By Sara

August 24, 2008 8:58 AM | Link to this

Btw, this is one of my favorite spreadsheets from last season, that I did after the regular season ended last year showing how each team was built. I’ll highlight six teams here: ATL, three comparable expansion franchises in NAS, MIN, and CLB, and the two SC finalists DET and PIT. (Go to the spreadsheet for the acutal numbers, I’m just recapping my opinion here.)

PIT - drafted over half their talent - most excellent. Like the Thrashers, they went through some lean years resulting in some high picks and have made the most of them. About a third of the team is FAs, not bad.

DET - Slightly more drafted players than FA talent but the Wings spent several years trading away their first round picks plus they are a premiere FA destination so they can get away with it. Not to mention being the kings of late-round gems…

NAS - Mostly FAs which is normally problematic although they seem to have made it work. I don’t have the raw data anymore but what I recall off-hand is that a lot of their FA pick-ups were earlier on and they’ve done well to retain them (players selected in the entry drafts for the expansion franchises would have been considered FA players).

CLB - Over half the roster drafted, which is great, but nothing to show for it with no play-off appearances or division titles. However, they’ve had some stiff competition out west in general and in their division in particular - more competition certainly than the Thrashers face in the SE.

MIN - Slightly more drafted players than free agents and one of the two teams that came into the league one year after the Thrashers (CLB being the other). However, they have acheived a lot of success in reaching the post-season playing in a very tough division.

ATL - un-good, period. Most of the players come from trades displaying the team’s inability to attract solid FA talent. If we take back Heatley and give back Hossa, then drafted versus traded would be dead-even. Bygones as Brendan would say. My thinking here…good trades can off-set our inability to attract FA talent, but neither should take the place of solid drafting. That number should be over 50%. However, we are possily only going to see the slightest of improvements there next season. Little counted in last season’s numbers so the only newbies thus far are Valabik and Bogosian, however we are losing Popovic. sigh Talk about baby steps.

By Brendan

August 24, 2008 12:39 PM | Link to this

Excellent post, Sara. It’s posts like that one that bring forth more readers. Lots of good stuff! Well done.

Building through the draft is an excellent way to build a team. Perhaps, the very best way. Some teams draft pretty well, but then do stupid things with the picks. I think of the Islanders, in particular. These players were drafted by the Islanders, since 1991, but got away: Todd Bertuzzi, Bryan McCabe, Tommy Salo, Brad Lukowich, Wade Redden, Zdeno Chara, J.P. Dumont, Eric Brewer, Roberto Luongo, Mike Rupp, Taylor Pyatt, Tim Connolly, Raffi Torres, Cory Stillman, Darius Kasparaitis, and Ziggy Palffy.

Imagine if the Islanders had held on to some of that talent? Instead, they traded it away, for the most part. In 1993, the NY Islanders went on a magical run that ended in the Prince of Wales Conference Finals against Montreal. The Islanders haven’t won a playoff series since then. Gee, wonder why?

When people say, “We’re headed in the right direction” … they are correct … if the intention is to build through the draft once again, while developing the players currently in the system. If, however, anyone (Bruce Levenson, I’m looking at YOU!) is advancing the idea that the Thrashers finished way ahead of the 2007 Flyers and are now poised to replicate the Flyers 2008 season … well … that’s just plain wrong. But worse than that, it’s intentionally misleading a fan base. The Flyers made a series of calculated moves at the 2007 trade deadline, and throughout that whole year and offseason, to reposition themselves as a playoff team in 2008. The net result of which was that the Flyers found themselves in the 2008 Eastern Conference Finals vs. Pittsburgh.

Atlanta is NOT following that model/strategy. Nor should it, in my opinion. Atlanta really isn’t in a position to attract Tier I free agents, or particularly inspire the sports agents who represent Tier I free agents, with its current ownership group and business model.

We’re not the Philadelphia market. And we shouldn’t pretend that we are. Our circumstances in Atlanta are vastly different than that of Philadelphia. In my view, this upcoming season will be a successful one not if we make the playoffs, but rather, that we successfully develop the young talent in our system, develop an identity that defines “Thrashers hockey,” and make intelligent decisions on draft day, 2009, in whatever draft position we find ourselves in.

By Fred

August 24, 2008 1:35 PM | Link to this

I would LOVE nothing more than to be able to get behind this team…. I’m originally from Boston, and played organized hockey from the time i was 3 until i was 17. Boston teams can do no wrong in my eyes, even if they suck, as the Bruins commonly do. Iv’e lived in the south since ‘99, and in Atl for over 4 years now. Someone please give me some hope to spend money going to anymore of these games. Between life, and a career and alll, it’s tough to spend so much time and money going to a game when the management, and half the players it seems don’t give a damn

By Sara

August 24, 2008 2:15 PM | Link to this

Thanks Brendan I do occassionally try to offer something of value. :p One thing about those two posts of mine above is that they reflect the two angles in looking at drafting. There’s quantity, and then there’s quality. One team could have 9 guys that they drafted on the roster but if those nine guys are the bottom 6 forwards, 5th and 6th d-men, and the back-up goalie, is that successful? I don’t necessarily know - that’s a subjective issue. Ideally every team will be drafting some of those lower-tier players but they strive to draft the mid-and top-tier more.

I’d like to take a look at the top six players (the “starting line-up” if you will) for each team and see how that has worked out. Just looking at the Thrashers from last year that list is Kovy, Hossa, Perrin, Toby, Nik, and Kari. Now - 3 of those (50%) are drafted talent, with 2 FA players and one acquired via a trade. That would be consistent with a model of 50% drafted talent, 33% FA talent, and 17% traded talent. Now personally I would say that would be a good model to follow for on-ice success, continuity of team chemistry, and fiscal responsibility (home-grown talent is often the cheapest talent, especially in RFA years). I’d be curious to see how that stacks up to other teams to try and get an idea of how other teams acquire their “quality” players. Detroit is another easy one for me to rattle off - Dats, Zetts, Cleary, Lidstrom, Rafalski, and Osgood. Cleary and Rafi were FA acquisitions, Dats, Zetts, and Lidstrom all drafted. Osgood is interesting in that he was technically drafted by the Wings but let go via FA years ago only to be re-acquired (they actually had 3 such players on their roster last year - Ozzie, McCarty, and Drake). I’d count Ozzie as an FA for last year. But that’s still 50% of their top talent drafted. I may work on that this week and see where it gets me. Maybe look at how many points were produced from drafted players, etc etc.

Out of curiousity…what do you guys think is the best stat to rate d-men by? I’d be inclined to say +/- but that can be deceiving given that some pairings face more quality opponents and spend more time on the ice than others. You can’t really go by points since that is a poor evaluator for the stay-at-home types. Just wondering.

One other thing I wanted to add and thought about after reading Brendan’s post is that it isn’t even necessarily about the players drafted as much as it is an organizations ability to develop that talent. Coburn being exhibit A of course. Perhaps that has been the Thrashers’ Achilles heel moreso than the drafting itself. Which, if so, could be the most significant improvement under Coach Anderson as he likes to play the young guys and has a good working relationship with our farm club.

By ranallo10 (in AT)

August 24, 2008 3:41 PM | Link to this

Sara — Average time on ice compared to special teams minutes, +/- compared to special teams points compared to overall points compared to even strength and special teams minutes. Those are the best indicators, in my opinion, and should always be used in unison. There is not one magical stat to show a players value, so like baseball does with the OPS (on base plus slugging) something must be created with hockey players combining the statistics.

+/- is a fair indicator, but relies too much upon line chemistry and the talents of teammates. ATOI is a good indicator of how often the player is utilized, and special teams play gives you minutes and points for specialized positions or roles.

By Brendan

August 24, 2008 5:43 PM | Link to this

Sara, without doing any indepth analysis, my “litmus test” is TOI for a defenseman. If a blueliner logs a lot of minutes, it tells me that his coach has a lot of confidence in him to handle a wide variety of situations.

This is why I like a guy like Bouwmeester, in Florida. And Boyle, formerly of Tampa Bay. They log lots of minutes in different situations … and are often counted on to be there in key situations of the game.

I still can’t believe that TB actually traded Boyle. Hey, that’s GREAT news for Atlanta! How often do we play San Jose??? The Bolts blueline, I have to believe, will be “suspect” this year, barring some additional moves before Opening Night.

And Sara, you make consistenly wonderful posts. :)

By Alan

August 24, 2008 6:04 PM | Link to this

The Bolts blueline, I have to believe, will be “suspect” this year, barring some additional moves before Opening Night.

I think they plan on recruiting some of their Forwards they signed this offseason for defense positions. Speaking of, they have yet another forward trying out for the team. Simply amazing.

By ranallo10 (in AT)

August 24, 2008 6:09 PM | Link to this

Brendan — Something I forgot to mention here, and it’s something I didn’t find this out until recently…it is the Tampa Bay management’s handling of the David Carle situation.

David Carle is the younger brother of Matt Carle, former San Jose defenseman who was acquired by Tampa in the Boyle trade. He has a heart ailment the will not allow him to play hockey anymore (didn’t find out about this until the 21st of June, before the draft). His dream was to be drafted in the NHL, and Tampa Bay decided to use their last pick to make that dream come true for David.

If anything can be said about such a gesture, I think it was probably one of the greatest show of humanity in a sport that often rewards those without such a quality. Feaster’s drafting of Carle in a throw-away round (203rd pick, 7th round) was making a kid’s dream come true. I would feel remiss not giving Feaster credit for this.

Anyways, there was a good article posted about this in July on ESPN, so if anyone cares to read about it check it out here.

Back to the topic at hand…

I think Matt Carle is a quality young defender who San Jose was unwise to give up. Boyle is no consolation prize, clearly, but giving up a quality young defender like Carle is tough to get past. Tampa Bay might be worse off in the short term, but will benefit in the long…in my opinion.

I agree with you though, about the ATOI stat for defenders. It is probably the single stat that can be pointed at immediately to show a defender’s quality, but shouldn’t be relied upon solely. Zhitnik was third on the roster in ATOI for defenders. Was Zhitnik the third best defender on the roster last season (that’s trick question—and I already know Nikita’s opinion)?

But +/- combined with ATOI is probably a good basic measure.

By Brendan

August 24, 2008 7:08 PM | Link to this

I didn’t know that, Ranallo. That’s a terrific gesture by Feaster. I’ve always kinda liked Feaster. And when I discovered the truth behind many of his more recent moves, his resignation came as no surprize. Bill Davidson was a GOOD owner. Time will tell if Tampa’s current ownership will measure up to him. Given Matt Carle’s age, the move will be a good one in the longrun for Tampa Bay.

Tonight is the airing of Closing Ceremonies of the Olympics, from Beijing China. You’ll forgive me for this … but it’s one of the few moments when the entire world assembles for peaceful, friendly celebrations. It’s the sort of thing that makes a person wonder what “could” be possible on our planet. The spirit behind the Olympics is a noble one. They’ll gather again in 2012, in London, England. But, I’m looking forward to Vancouver, BC, in 2010. Imagine if the USA took GOLD in Ice Hockey in Canada? Hey, it’d only be fair. The Canadians came here, in the Salt Lake Games, and did the very same. The U.S.A. had to settle for Silver.

By PJ

August 24, 2008 8:53 PM | Link to this

Well well well a Hockey Blog that is actually discussing Hockey(or at least sports). Nice, Rawhide, really nice. So it is almost 1 month until the first pre-season game and as anxious as I am to go, I know part of me would like to reserve my hockey ticket budget for real games. Sooooo, are the pre-season games televised?? Anywhere? Brendan- The spirit behind the Olympics is a noble one. yea, yea, Mr. PJ tried to explain that one to me while watching Sand Volleyball…..Ahh-huh

So Everyone- what was your favorite part of the Olympics and why?

By glovesave29

August 24, 2008 9:14 PM | Link to this

PJ - Having been to a Winter Games (Calgary 1988) and a Summer Games (Atlanta 1996) - I would definately prefer the going to the games coming to Vancouver two years over London.

Atlanta was a blast as it’s my home town and I really enjoyed watching the world come here and have a great time (no matter what the media said, the people from all over loved coming here)but there is a more laid back, fun vibe at the winter games. Its a smaller community and the fans really support the althetes regardless of country. As much as I enjoy hockey, you need to spend a day at the luge / bobsled track and the ski jump - two sports that TV does just not do justice to.

Anyone up for a road trip to BC?

By Sara

August 24, 2008 9:15 PM | Link to this

PJ that’s ok hun - just remember to repeat those words to him in 2010 right before you switch on Olympic hockey. :D

As for my favorite part(s) - the Opening Ceremonies - fabulous - and obviously the run of Michael Phelps. Watching history get made is always cool.

By Brendan

August 24, 2008 10:57 PM | Link to this

I know. I know. Misty May and Kerri Walsh, wearing white, in the rain … I’ve heard it all before. I was very proud of them to repeat as Gold medalists. They are THE BEST IN THE WORLD at sand volleyball.

I really enjoyed the handball events most of all. I wish this sport were more prevalent. My favorite moment from them was, by far, the OT penalty shot taken by Denmark that scored to defeat Russia, 25-24. It was one of the most magnificent throws I’ve ever seen. It was absolutely “perfect.” Think Yzerman’s OT winner, in Game 7, vs. St. Louis. It was that kind of shot. And the celebration that followed would have made even Theo Fleury envious.

Also, I have to admit that I kinda got into the water polo events. Team USA got Silvers in both men’s and women’s. The Dutch team coming out of nowhere to win the Gold for the women was very special for them and their coach.

I had never seen kayaking before in the Games. That was unusual. The rhythmic gymnastics was really good. The Redeem team coming through was great. The Spaniards gave them a decent Gold Medal match.

The Romanian gymnast who won the floor exercise was a great moment. She went last … and wowed ‘em enough to win, while the TV analysts had all but declared the Gold, Silver and Bronze medalists before she even attempted her routine.

In the mixed badminton, there was a huge upset when the Koreans knocked off the Indonesians. Watching them celebrate, as an unranked duo that got the Gold, had to have been one of special moments of the Games.

Matthew Mitcham, of Australia, hanging tough through the first three rounds of platform diving to remain in the hunt, then dominating in the final rounds to win it all, and stun the Chinese, was a magical moment. Watching his disbelief celebration, along with his many Aussie fans, was another Kodak moment.

Watching that 39-year old Romanian woman taking the lead at the 10-mile mark and never relinquishing it, in the 26-mile marathon … was incredible. I didn’t think she could keep up that pace. But she did. And she won.

The Chinese guy who won Badminton threw his raquet in the stands … then took off his shoes … and teased the fans … before throwing them into the crowd. I thought he was gonna strip naked, at the pace he was on. Think the end of “Slapshot.” I was surprized at how “into it” the crowd was. It’s badminton, for cripesakes. But there were some spectacular power rallies between the #1 and #2 ranked players in the world for badminton.

And yes, PJ, irrespective of their scantily clad appearance, Misty May-Treanor and Kerri Walsh defeating the Chinese in sand volleyball to win the Gold … was a special moment. And Misty scattered her Mom’s ashes on the sand, just like in Athens, Greece. And in a rare occurrence, they asked for a moment in the midst of an interview to thank President Bush for inspiration. How come the OTHER American athletes didn’t do that?

And although women’s Gold in soccer isn’t anything new anymore, it’s always impressive to defeat Brazil in soccer.

Finally, the Opening and Closing Ceremonies. According to Bob Costas, the Chinese spent billions on the venues, events, pageantry, security, actors, choreography and fireworks. I seriously doubt any other host city will spend like the Chinese just did.

Oh yeah. I guess this guy, Michael Phelps, had a decent race or two. :) And Alicia Sacramone may have a career in modeling when this is all said and done.

By Alan

August 24, 2008 11:16 PM | Link to this

glovesave - Count me in. I need to get my passport first, but I’m definitely down for that.

By PJ

August 24, 2008 11:50 PM | Link to this

Glovesave29 - Seeing the games live is one of those events in life you never forget - from what I’ve been told. Therefore, attending a Winter Olympics event is on my bucket list.

One of my favorite parts of the Olympics is when our athletes are on the podium, being awarded their medals and as they are choking back tears, listening to our National Anthem, I am right there with them.

Sara - Michael Phelps - yea, that was pretty amazing… ;o) The US basketball team didn’t do too poorly either.

Brendan - I wasn’t able to watch as much as I would have liked, you could say I have Olympics envy. Thanks for the detailed overview.

By ranallo10 (in AT)

August 25, 2008 6:27 AM | Link to this

I really enjoyed the handball events most of all. I wish this sport were more prevalent.

As one of the only American athletes to play both internationally and on the Olympic stage used to say “handball is the best sport you’ve never seen”. I played it during college, and even helped form a team at Georgia State (unfortunately it didn’t have lasting power). I can easily say that is one sport that could get a decent sized following in the US if supported locally in schools and on television.

Handball is the second most popular sport in Europe behind soccer (you can’t go through a major city without running into a street court, or a gymnasium with collapsible goals) , yet just like soccer it is not well followed or played in the US. It’s got every aspect of sports that Americans like — it’s fast paced, has tons of contact, and a high amount of scoring, plenty of defense and strategy, etc. Hopefully the sport will catch on to become more mainstream in the US…one day.

Anyways, good wrap-up Brendan, I think that’s your longest post with the most amount of topics…usually we get one or two, but this time you strayed from the norm.

By Maury

August 25, 2008 8:08 AM | Link to this

Same old Same old. Don picks up average players in free agency. The roster is basically chosen before training camp and the young prospects are sent to the minors with little chance to take their skills to the next level. Why not get Kovy what he needs and bring up the young talent and call it a real development year for the future.

By ranallo10 (in AT)

August 25, 2008 8:17 AM | Link to this

Maury — From where would you recommend getting Kovalchuk what he needs, and at what cost?

By glovesave29

August 25, 2008 8:18 AM | Link to this

PJ - the podium ceremonies are great in person. I remember when the Irish woman won one of the swimming events in Atlanta (cannot remember her name), she was bawling on the stand as they played her national anthem. There was not a dry eye in the house.

Brendan…rhythic gymnastics? What? I cannot believe THAT is a sport in the games, especially while they plan to cut out softball and baseball. If you think that Sacramnone (poor kid, I really felt for her) has a job in modeling, you obviously missed the Dutch women’s field hockey team.

Did anyone see the ads for the new Universal Sports Network that NBC is launching? They showed hockey first…are they going to carry more games for us? NBC has only selected 2 of their 10 games for the season - could they be springing a surprise on us?

By Alan

August 25, 2008 9:48 AM | Link to this

They showed hockey first…are they going to carry more games for us?

I sincerely hope so. There is a glaring lack of any hockey coverage in the US, and I honestly believe “if you build it, they will come.” Build a network easily accessible for hockey fans to come to, and by the Gods the hockey fans will come.

By glovesave29

August 25, 2008 10:59 AM | Link to this

The NHL needs to partner with local bars and have a “National Hockey Night”. Only HD games - have local radio stations / team sponsor it and have discount beer and food. Have ticket and merchandise give aways and have some retired players show up…drum up interest in the sport where it is struggling. Do it in established markets too, make it something fun for fans to look forward to.

By Bob

August 25, 2008 11:58 AM | Link to this

NHL will starting doing better in the ratings the minute that they wake up, and go crawling back to ESPN with hat in hand and take whatever deal they’re given. Hockey in HD on ESPNs 24/7 HD networks that are in all households, will set our sport ablaze.

Bolt was amazing to me. Sure, Phelps was awesome to watch and I was a swimmer, but the first time I saw Bolt run, I just sat there with my jaw on my chest going WTF. He was amazing. Woman’s soccer gold was a great game. I like the gymastics. But Bolt was the guy for me, fastest man we’ll probably ever see run in our lifetimes.

By NASCAR Dave

August 25, 2008 12:27 PM | Link to this

Same old Same old. Don picks up average players in free agency. The roster is basically chosen before training camp and the young prospects are sent to the minors with little chance to take their skills to the next level. Why not get Kovy what he needs and bring up the young talent and call it a real development year for the future.

Good post… 100% fact…

But what I need to know is, WHAT line are we gonna have LARSEN and SLATER on???

Which pairing is KLEE on???

I can’t wait… LOL

By ranallo10 (in AT)

August 25, 2008 1:02 PM | Link to this

According to this tool from the AJC, only 5 children born in Georgia since 1990 were named “Ilya”.

To put that into perspective, the same amount of boys were named “Jethro” since 1990.

By glovesave29

August 25, 2008 1:04 PM | Link to this

Bob - the NHL needs ESPN? If NBC starts up a sports network, why should the league crawl back to the boys up in Bristol? They all but ignore hockey. I am quite certain that NBC has sufficient power to make the sattelite and cable companies show their new network…that is if they want continued access to NBC programming!

Think of a thursday night at TJ’s…gotta bunch of former Flames and Thrashers there. The team is having a trivia contest for jerseys and tickets. The local radio station broadcasts from there…it would be the place to be. Get people involved with the sport and the team. This is not a revolutionary idea…the bars in Sacramento (where I went to college) made Monday Night Football a BLAST! The games there start at 6, so all the pubs have big parties, and everyone goes there straight from work. IT CAN work for hockey!

As for Bolt - great call. Amazing athletic talent. I also like his attitude…I do not think for a moment he showed up the competition. He just won a gold medal, let him celebrate Mr. Rogge!

By Brendan

August 25, 2008 1:08 PM | Link to this

Glovesave, I feel what you’re saying. I cannot believe baseball and softball are being eliminated. Why? I’ve never heard a satisfactory answer yet. If softball doesn’t return, then the last Gold medal game saw Japan defeat our U.S. team. We don’t even get the chance to “redeem” ourselves?? I guess … it is what it is.

In rhythmic gymnastics, the events were very close between the Russian Federation, China, Belarus, and the Italians. I personally thought the Italians should have won the gold. Their routine was the most imaginative and innovative. Instead, they wound up 4th. Rubbing my chin. But this is why I think these things are really entirely too subjective. Costumes sometimes make the difference in a sport like this. Shrugs.

Ranallo, I definitely think handball should be a more popular sport. It combines all the good elements of hockey and soccer. Plus, you can use your hands! I was riveted to the handball events. I missed the medal rounds, though. I honestly don’t know who won. But that Denmark vs. Russia game was spectacular. The Danes pulled their goalie in the final minute and got the equalizer. But before time expired, their net was still empty. So the Russians heaved a long throw at the empty net, which hit the crossbar, essentially as time expired. Then, in the overtime, the Russians committed a foul, resulting in a penalty shot. And no matter how many times and from which angle they showed it, it was a just impossibly perfect throw. It lobbed right over the Russian defenders and just past the outstretched arm of the Russian keeper, into the corner of the net where the goalpost meets the crossbar. Amazing. Just amazing. I wish we hand a handball league in America.

By PJ

August 25, 2008 1:24 PM | Link to this

Tony C Do you think you can contact Rawhide and send me an email? I am interested in upgrading my Comcast service.

By ranallo10 (in AT)

August 25, 2008 1:47 PM | Link to this

I wish we hand a handball league in America.

As do I Brendan…speak to your local billionaire about funds, and I’m sure I can handle the organization part.

Unfortunately club level is the highest it goes in the US (collegiate teams now play as a “club”, against non-collegiate and collegiate teams), with an annual championship played in various locations. It’s quality stuff, but many find the rules hard to understand if there is no breakdown for them beforehand.

glovesave — I’m in agreement with Bob on the television side of things. It’s easier for SportsCenter to give 10 minutes of airtime to recap the games played than it is for NBC to care about sports instead of ratings (personally I got sick of seeing advertisements for their crappy television shows they tried slamming down our throat during the playoffs).

ESPN was the perfect combination of talent (better announcers in my opinion, compared to NBC) and coverage (ESPN, ESPN2 and ESPNHD compared to NBC), plus they adhere to the demographic that follows hockey…SPORTS fans (not the news junky who watches Dateline NBC every time it airs, or the people looking for the next hit series like [insert crappy NBC show name here]).

True, NBC is the “bigger” station, and has more viewers thus potential audience…but when they only show 10 games a year, then take over during the playoffs, is it really worth being their partner? ESPN can give more coverage (especially compared to VS), more HD channels (VS chooses golf over hockey OFTEN), and is part of every cable provider in the country.

It makes too much sense for the NHL to do it. Right now I’m curious which owner in the NHL has shares in VS…because that whole situation is nothing but fishy in my opinion.

By NASCAR Dave

August 25, 2008 2:05 PM | Link to this

Get that Stanley Cup ready, boys!

TODD WHITE = Team MVP!!!

LMAO

By Bob

August 25, 2008 2:32 PM | Link to this

Bob - the NHL needs ESPN? If NBC starts up a sports network, why should the league crawl back to the boys up in Bristol?

Yes, they need ESPN. Biggest mistake Bettman made coming out of the lockout. They had just opened up the ice with the new rules, supposedly made some parity in the league with the cap, and they are in need of a new TV contract. ESPN had just announced 24/7 programming on ESPN in HD and followed it up shortly with ESPN2HD, all HD, all the time.

Crap, I’d watch handball in HD if that’s what ESPN was showing. All households get ESPN. ESPN is sports, NBC isn’t taking that away from them.

Put hockey on ESPN HD glory Monday through Thursday nights and watch the sport triple in popularity in a year or two. NBC can keep their 10 Sat/Sun games they show, and the Cup if they want it. But if people watch poker on ESPN just cause it’s in HD, you better believe the casual fan will just eat up watching NHL in all of it’s HD glory.

By Brendan

August 25, 2008 3:23 PM | Link to this

“Hello, Ted. It’s me, Brendan. Whattaya mean, Brendan who? Yes, the Brendan from the AJC.com hockey blog. Yes, I’m fine. And they’re fine, too. Of course I’m saddened by the loss of Skip Caray. Yes, I know the Braves have never been the same since you left. Look, I’m not really calling you about baseball, okay? Yes, I know the Braves are 15 games outta first place. Yes, I know it would have never happened on your watch, Ted. Uh-huh. Uh-huh. Look Ted, could you put don’t that mint julip and shut up for a minute? I have an idea I want to share with you. Okay, I’m not asking you to buy back the Thrashers. Although, is that something you’d want to do? No? Okay, then. Well look, it’s about this Olympic handball thingy. Ted, you are regarded as a visionary. Yes, I know it was YOUR IDEA to launch a satellite up into space to beam TBS to the nation. Okay, okay. What? I just called you a ‘visionary,’ Ted. What more do you want from me? Look Ted, I need for you to hush up for a moment and listen. Sir, may I be candid with you? Thank you. Sir, you are QUITE WEALTHY. What? You find my candor quite REFRESHING? Well, good. Look, about my idea …. No, don’t me on hold! Ted! Ted!!! Listen, will ya? I want you to finance a handball league. And I want a team for the Atlanta market.

He hung up on me. Can you believe that? Sheesh.

By R. Stroz

August 25, 2008 3:37 PM | Link to this

Brendan - Don’t worry, he probably hangs up on Jane Fonda too.

Next time, ask Ted to give his son Beau some more money to invest in the Thrasher’s payroll.

By ranallo10 (in AT)

August 25, 2008 3:41 PM | Link to this

The nerve of some people…

By NASCAR Dave (in ATL)

August 25, 2008 4:35 PM | Link to this

Looks silly, doesn’t it???

RANALLO, we get the point where you are… Do you really need to keep posting it??? Quit bragging… LOL

By Tony C.

August 25, 2008 4:43 PM | Link to this

In no particular order:

PJ hit me at:

hispeedtest@hotmail.com

I’ll do what I can.

Brendan-You obviously didn’t watch the Women’s Gold-Medal game (or maybe you did?). j The USA squad just barely squeaked that one out-Hope Solo pretty much won the game for our girls, Brasil dominated the play, but couldn’t solve Solo (kind of like Luongo in Vancouver-stands on his head and hopefully one of the Sedin Sisters scores-replace the name “Luongo” with “Solo” and “Sedin Sisters” with “Carli Lloyd”).

~to ESPN or not ESPN~

i may be biased on this, but I miss NHL2Night-Buccigross was great, Melrose was tolerable, and Chicken Parm is a funny guy. Plus, Gary Thorne beats the hell out of “Doc” Emery (equal play-by-play abilities, but Throne’s voice is like 3746329 times more bearable than Emery’s, plus Thorne actually remains impartial-I could’ve sworn Emery was going to ask somebody to give Crosby his phone # at any moment during the playoffs last season).

Oh, and I thought about something vis-a-vis Sterling: Just got done watching NHL channels replay of some late 80’s early 90’s Flames games-hey if Theo Fleurry could make it happen back then (and they didn’t call things nearly as closely orquickly then as they do now), maybe Sterling can hang.

But that is also predicated with the other players being gritty and finishing their opportunites more often than not. But there is a precedent for his style of game, Fleurry’s substance-abuse issue aside.

By Mike

August 25, 2008 4:52 PM | Link to this

What happens if Bogey goes to Juniors? Who replaces him on D - Klee? uggh.

By Brendan

August 25, 2008 5:05 PM | Link to this

Tony C., I only saw the tail end of the Gold Medal game between the USA and Brazil. I saw the OT’s. It was a squeaker of a victory! Our goaltender did save the day. I think it’s difficult to be a goalie in soccer. But when I watched the water polo action, I realized that being a goalie in that sport is even tougher. At least in terms of making saves.

The only field hockey I saw was the Netherlands vs. Australia, and the Dutch scored on a penalty shot was 4 seconds left to earn a 2-2 tie. I expected field hockey to be better than it was. Then again, I hardly made a concerted effort to follow it all. The event that bored me to tears was actually boxing. I just couldn’t get through it. I was dozing off. Maybe it’s all that headgear?

The ping pong final was intense! I wouldn’t have thought that. The two players were both Chinese. I know. I know. I’m as SHOCKED as you are. But the one player had blown it the last time and this was his shot at redemption. They play a best-of-seven series. And he won, 4-1, over the fellow who defeated him the last time around.

Apparently, badminton and ping pong have huge followings in China.

By Alan

August 25, 2008 5:40 PM | Link to this

Former Atlanta Thrashers defenseman Mark Popovic became the latest NHL player to be lured away by the new Russian Super League, agreeing to play for St. Petersburg next season for approxately $1 million

more here

By Tony C.

August 25, 2008 6:29 PM | Link to this

Boges goes to juniors=Boges is p!ssed next year and is even more motivated than he is now….which sounds like bad news for the opposition.

Let’s be real, looks like the goal this year is to let other teams overlook us and actually build this thing…. I think we’ll finally learn what “Thrashers’ Hockey” is this season. But I keep seeing team officials and employees (Kamal) talk about “flying under the radar”-to me, that means “we’re better than they give us credit for, but we’re not really good either…yet”

GO BLUE !!!

By Riley

August 25, 2008 6:53 PM | Link to this

Are they going to have bobbleheads or player statues this year? Or neither, like last year?

By Thrashers27

August 25, 2008 7:54 PM | Link to this

I think it’s safe to say taht Bogey will not be playing in juniors this year.

By ranallo10 (in AT)

August 25, 2008 8:36 PM | Link to this

Alan — THANK YOU! I’ve been waiting for news of where Popovic ended up. I’m saddened to see him go, because I know I wasn’t the only person around here to think he could actually HELP this team defensively, if given a full time roll. Unfortunately he’s one of the casualties of “getting younger” (if that truly happens), and his services weren’t needed on this roster.

I wish him luck elsewhere, and am intrigued by which NHL teams were interested in him (I’m guessing Atlanta was one, hence the mention of two-way contracts).

Also of note is Bryan Berard’s second tryout for an NHL club in as many years. In my opinion he didn’t do too shabby in New York last season, playing 54 games and putting up 22 points, a -17 on a crappy team, and missing 6 games due to a groin injury. His ATOI of 17:38 was 30 seconds less than another injured player for the season, Andy Sutton.

I’ve viewed him as a solid 2nd or 3rd line defender who can log time on the PP, thus a good fit for any team needing assistance offensively from the blueline. The Thrashers used to be in that category of teams in need, but may now be fine with Hainsey, Enstrom and Bogosian.

By Alan

August 25, 2008 9:09 PM | Link to this

But I keep seeing team officials and employees (Kamal) talk about “flying under the radar”-to me, that means “we’re better than they give us credit for, but we’re not really good either…yet”

I don’t know. To me, it means that we as a team are being vastly under-rated. And when you look at the so-called “preseason rankings”, you can see that is truly the case. Nobody has seen the team, as it stands now, truly play. No coaching, no camp, nothing at all yet. So how can you rank a team at all if there’s nothing concrete to base the rankings on?

We’re allegedly going to be among the bottom five. Fine. Let those teams underestimate this one and let’s see what happens. It’s put up or shut up time, and this team has to show the league what exactly Thrashers hockey really is.

By Jethro

August 26, 2008 12:36 AM | Link to this

only 5 children born in Georgia since 1990 were named “Ilya”.

To put that into perspective, the same amount of boys were named “Jethro” since 1990.

Wee needta put Jethro on the indangured speeces list.

By Sara

August 26, 2008 7:15 AM | Link to this

Alan I expect the “expert” opinions are based on a) historical team trend and b) historical results of “rebuilding” teams early on and teams under new coaches. Takes a while for things to click. There are no guarantees that either Valabik or Bogosian are going to light it up the way Enstrom did, for example. He came in way beyond the level one would expect for most rookie d-men, though he was more experienced and older than Bogosian or others might normally be.

Where I think the biggest under-estimation lies is the thought that we just had a bad roster last season and haven’t made majorly significant upgrades (although I think everyone can agree that there is an over-all improvement in raw talent, at least on the blueline). However, I don’t think it was a pure “lack of talent” that did this team in last season, it was bad attitudes and a non-existent system. While last year’s team (or this year’s) likely would not challenge for a Cup, we were (and are) potentially better than a 3rd from bottom finish if guided properly. That’s why Anderson is the most crucial piece to this puzzle - he has an amazing attitude and he believes in systems (and adapting systems, something Hartley never could figure out).

By ThrasherNY

August 26, 2008 8:21 AM | Link to this

So how can you rank a team at all if there’s nothing concrete to base the rankings on?

List of concrete things to base a ranking on:

1.) Team was putrid last season put up such stats as 76pts, 3.24GA, 33.9SA, 78.8%PK, 16.5% PP. Concrete takeaway; team must make drastic improvement just to move to middle of pack. Drastic!

2.) Loss of top ten forward. Hossa would have been our franchise player if we didnt have one super Kovy. Concrete takeaway; team must get synergy from multiple pieces to replace void left by exiting superstar. Not impossible but they are paid top dollars for a reason.

3.) Free Agents collectively vote “no confidence” in our immediate future. Concrete takeaway; it is not just the bloggers who think this team is not one guy away from greatness. Not saying those guys had word from the ‘Oracle’ but I tend to think they are fairly educated in making these choices.

4.) GRAND FINALLY: Don Waddell is still the GM. Concrete takeaway; this guys has failed with much greater assets then the ones currently on the roster. A full decade of historical proof that he is not capable of assembling a contending squad. Every season we hope the sum of the parts is better than they look on paper and it never really materializes.

So here is the disclaimer without the small print. The above are not concrete things that say we dont finsh 8th from the bottom instead of 3rd. They are not concrete things that say we are not capable of the 8th seed if we get tremendous new direction and focus from our new coach. But I dont think anyone doing the rankings cares much if they jumble up the teams out of the playoffs in their analysis.

It is a “build year” for a reason, lets enjoy it as such and everything will be upside. This season will tell us everything about our next five seasons including whether we retain our franchise player. It will truly be a fun one to watch but yet again it will end a couple months early for my ultimate pleasure.

By Sara

August 26, 2008 9:32 AM | Link to this

3.) Free Agents collectively vote “no confidence” in our immediate future. Concrete takeaway; it is not just the bloggers who think this team is not one guy away from greatness. Not saying those guys had word from the ‘Oracle’ but I tend to think they are fairly educated in making these choices.

I think more people need to be cautious with this issue. Collectively it does all look bad, but when broken down individually, the view is a bit different.

Hossa - the first and in theory the worst since he was in prime position to know this team’s potential. However, he also turned down Pittsburgh, a team that took him to game 6 of the SCF, and Montreal reportedly, who finished on top of the conference last year. So, what then exactly defines a “contending team” in Hossa’s world?

Campbell - was very respectful about the entire process and has stated and reiterated that his final decision came down to playing for an Original Six club. That in no way expresses an opinion on the direction of this club, nor did he expressly give an opinion either. Any conjecture otherwise is simply that, conjecture.

Rolston - chose to sign with New Jersey. FWIW, that would be the same team that drafted him. He never said why he chose Jersey over any other team, and those decisions happen. This is an every-year occurrence in free agency. Some people turn down contracts from some of the best teams in the League for various reasons (see: Hossa, Marian)

Boyle - now this one was definitely a direct hit, painfully so. That said, how much respect for opinion can you give to a defenseman who played for the worst team in the league last season and had the worst +/- maybe in the entire league last year but definitely among top four d-men (I know - I just spent yesterday pulling all the stats. Zhitnik wasn’t even that bad last year and at least our #1 d-man came out of a bad season with a +2). Not too mention someone who was in, shall we say, a very emotional state of mind given what that he’d just been through virtual blackmail from his employers.

Bobby Holik and Mark Recchi - I’m lumping these two together since it’s a similar situation. These guys are veterans, they’ve been around the block a few times, etc etc. But there are without question some behind-the-scenes issues with both of these guys (Holik basically got tossed out on his ear for being an a-hole last season and Recchi got mixed up in the McCrimmon issue). Now I’m not saying that means these guys are nothing more than disgruntled ex-employees as it were - they could be 100% accurate. But it’s still one of those situations where you have to evaluate the source, and not just the information.

Reality is, we have a serious PR problem down here. There is no question of that. But I wonder how much of it is earned (some of it I am sure), versus some of it just stemming from bad “spin.”

Either way, Anderson has already expressed a commitment to turn that image around and regardless of what the GM may or may not do, I have a lot of faith in Coach to pull it off.

By ranallo10 (in AT)

August 26, 2008 10:08 AM | Link to this

Sara — Boyle’s comments didn’t bother me. As you said, he was a bit p** when making the statement, as he had just gotten jerked around by the club he recently signed a long-term contract with. It doesn’t matter what team he identified, in my opinion, he was simply upset and using Atlanta as an example (honestly he couldn’t be scared of Atlanta, as Los Angeles had first dibs on him, and there’s no way LA would’ve passed over acquiring a defender of his talent at little cost).

Besides, Atlanta is a division rival of Tampa Bay, a team he has friends on, and has played for his entire career. Would you be happy if it was you who was threatened to be waived, and the club used your rival as the team they’d send you to?

Personally, I took no issues with Boyle’s statement, considering what he had gone through. Had someone from Nashville or Phoenix said it, then maybe the story would be different.

By ranallo10 (in AT)

August 26, 2008 10:20 AM | Link to this

Slight correction: Boyle didn’t play his ENTIRE career in Tampa, he was originally signed by Florida and played a few years there. My bad.