Ice Man

By NASCAR Dave

August 18, 2008 1:14 PM | Link to this

Where Does White Fit In Anderson’s System?

On the trade blocks…

By Ryan

August 18, 2008 1:16 PM | Link to this

Little is a center, do not consider him for a wing. Don’t screw up his progress by moving him around. Perrin is a natural wing, he can just play center. You still need one more right wing unless Stuart can fill that role. Little and Crusher will be the top 2 centers and White is an insurance policy. Hopefully they both blossom so well that White is in the booth. A good problem to have. Don’t forget that not only did Ottawa score a ton of goals (White’s good +/- numbers there) but how few goals did the Wild let in (the other way to have a high +/-)?

By GaVaHokie

August 18, 2008 1:19 PM | Link to this

This is exactly why we got off to such a bad start last year… mix-matched lines. There’s too many options and none of them seem right or make sense.

Kovy Crusher Williams

Kozy Little White

Perrin Reasoner Armstrong

Thorburn Slater Boulton

Even those don’t look right to me, and I don’t even know how to move it around. I like the players individually, I just don’t like them together.

By Scotty

August 18, 2008 1:27 PM | Link to this

Where does Todd White fit into the system??

I’ll tell you where, in the bath rooms of the practice facility refilling the rolls of Charmin in the stalls!

By Russian

August 18, 2008 1:30 PM | Link to this

BRAVO DAVE! White needs to be trade. Perfect plase to him. Another rumor I just read. Sundin wants to go to Rangers. He asked 7 mln. Yeah right! But Rangers got only 2 mln and trhey want to move Michal Rozsival, who re-signed on July 1 for $5 million. God Damn, Don!!! take him. IF we got Rozsival I do not care about Nikulin and his Russin F*** Mind.

By Ryan

August 18, 2008 1:45 PM | Link to this

I just looked it up Rawhide and my instincts were correct. In the two years that White had good +/- numbers in Minnesota, they ranked first and fifth in the league in Goals Against. So unless the entire team is scoring a ton (Ottawa) or letting in very few (Minnesota) I wouldn’t expect him to have a much better +/- number.

By Smitty

August 18, 2008 1:47 PM | Link to this

Colin Stuart has a little more upside to him than White. Younger, better defensively, more size and familiarity to Anderson,s system whatever that might be.Here is some wishful thinking if NYR sign Sundin. White,Ex or Klee, and a #1 for Drury or maybe Gomez

By ThrasherNY

August 18, 2008 1:48 PM | Link to this

This impossible shell game that GaVaHokie highlights above is the basis for my reasoning that we in fact still have a trade yet to come this offseason. That and the fact that it was not promised by management.

As it currently stands I align the roster exactly as GaVaHokie does above. That second line is what catches my eye and we know Anderson wants Stuart somewhere in the mix. I like this as he played well in the showcase of games down the stretch. So, I think we are looking to move White with Perrin (+ pick) as the value hand-cuffed to Charmin in a trade for a RW. Stuart then fills the last roster spot.

That leaves me a little scared about the PK as Dupuis, Hossa & Perrin were our best options on an already terrible PK….I will wait to see how this unfolds but lets just say fingers and toes are crossed.

By Rawhide

August 18, 2008 2:00 PM | Link to this

Hokie - You gonna put White out on the wing? I don’t know if I would do that.

The first and third line look decent, though.

Ryan - Very good…you’re on the payroll. Now, the question is…what is more likely to happen with this year’s version of the Thrashers…the defense allows less goals like Minnesota’s of 2-3 years ago, or the offense scoring more goals like Ottawa of ‘02 and ‘03?

ThrasherNY - we in fact still have a trade yet to come this offseason.…I would tend to agree with you. I think it’ll come closer to or during training camp as teams that are at or above the cap are looking to shed some payroll.

Smitty - Colin Stuart has a little more upside to him than White. Younger, better defensively, more size and familiarity to Anderson,s system…I agree a lot with that, especially the part about being familiar with Anderson’s sysem.

Purely speculative here, but I would think that if JA is allowed any input on such decisions, he’s probably of the mindset to keep the players he had success with in Chicago and offer up a player like White to trade away.

Again, that’s just me.

By LAC

August 18, 2008 2:11 PM | Link to this

Exelby & White to Edmonton for Erik Cole.

By Tony

August 18, 2008 2:19 PM | Link to this

ThrasherNY, Reasoner & Army were very capable on the PK for the Pens and Oil, I will be satisfied with them replacing Hossa & Dupuis. We still have Perrin. I sure hope you are correct that Trader Don has one more coming though.

Russian, I am surprised to see you bad mouth your fellow countryman. However, I would definitely take Roszival in a heartbeat. I am surprised that he would even be on the block. That entire lockerroom must be filled with cancers.

By Ryan

August 18, 2008 2:35 PM | Link to this

I will easily say Rawhide that our Goals For will be closer to Ottawa’s two-year average than our Goals Against will be closer to Minnesota’s two-year average. This is an easy case to prove as of right now. Our star player is worth at least 50 himself. We have a new coach that is going to focus on a system that gets all players involved in the O. Of our top defenders, their best skill sets are playmaking ability and PP production, they are the pure shut-down type defensemen. Our goaltender has a great save %, but we give up so many shots that GA is higher per se. We still don’t know if he can win a 2-1 game yet on a regular basis. Minnesota played a trap during those years (thus the first and fifth place rankings in GA). We might get a little better defensively but we are not going to put up trap type numbers. Goals For easily.

By glovesave29

August 18, 2008 2:38 PM | Link to this

Gotta go off topic for a sec…has anyone else noticed that on MSNBC’s coverage of the Olympics today, the Table Tennis play by play is being handled by none other than former ATLANTA FLAME Bill Clement?

The Thrashers will also debut their new maroon thirds on November 14th against the Canes.

OK, thanks for appeasing me…back to the issue at hand…

By five_hole

August 18, 2008 2:38 PM | Link to this

What kills me about Mr. White is the length of his contract. He’s signed thru the 10-11 season, which is longer than anyone on the current roster except for Mr. Hainsey.

By Alan

August 18, 2008 2:40 PM | Link to this

NHL Owner 09 sounds like it could be a real hit, if someone takes the time to develop it.

By Brian

August 18, 2008 2:41 PM | Link to this

Did they get Kovy a Center this year?

By ranallo10 (in AT)

August 18, 2008 2:48 PM | Link to this

LAC — I don’t see why Edmonton would give up a player who they gave up a lot for and who never played a game in their uniform. I don’t see that trade happening.

Tony — Slater was pretty handy on the PK as well.

Ryan — (from the other blog) Dubinsky needs room to develop, and is clearly blocked as it is. I think you’re right in the thought that NY could see Sundin as a FIX for the long term, allowing them to jettison a long expensive contract and open up room for development down the line. However, I wouldn’t put it past Sather to imagine Gomez or Drury on a wing. The other person who could be fallout is Prucha (as Hokie has theorized in the past).

By Bob

August 18, 2008 3:02 PM | Link to this

Right after Anderson was hired, Custance reported that Anderson told him he called up Todd White and told him that he was counting on him for 30 goals this year. That tells me he’s got White penciled in as his #1 center. That would put Christensen as #2, Reasoner as #3, and Little as your 4th center. When (not if) White fails, flip flop he and Little.

Perrin will skate on the wing, as will Slater.

One thing for sure, Coach certainly will have his hands full trying to eek some points out of this lineup.

By ranallo10 (in AT)

August 18, 2008 3:03 PM | Link to this

glovesave — Thanks for the notice on the maroons, I’ll mark that on my calendar.

Alan — I’ll take a copy of it, do you think it’ll be included with NHL 09??

By glovesave29

August 18, 2008 3:13 PM | Link to this

Hey Ranallo…I go to this website a bit where some professional graphic artists try to redo NHL logos and jerseys…take a look at these.

and these too…

THOSE are AMAZING!!!

By ranallo10 (in AT)

August 18, 2008 3:20 PM | Link to this

Thanks, but the links weren’t working for me. I get a 404 Not Found error, and none of the url works (when simplified).

By glovesave29

August 18, 2008 3:20 PM | Link to this

OK - sorry, those links did not work. Just go to http://icethetics.blogspot.com and look on the right column under “rebranding the NHL”. Some interesting things there

By GaVaHokie

August 18, 2008 3:22 PM | Link to this

Hokie - You gonna put White out on the wing? I don’t know if I would do that.

Rawhide… it’s already been discussed between Waddell and White earlier this summer. White has experience on the Wing and is open to the idea… please don’t make me find it, I’m not one to lie on these things. :) lol

Reasoner & Army were very capable on the PK for the Pens and Oil, I will be satisfied with them replacing Hossa & Dupuis.

Tony… having Reasoner on the team is like still having Holik, except at the right price. He’s a great face-off man and a smart puck handler and PK guy. Armstrong was the best PK player in Pittsburgh, and is why we had to give up Dupuis… The Penguins needed a PK player in return.

I’m perfectly happy with Perrin, Reasoner and Armstrong as the checking line.

I’m not comfortable with Crusher… just a feeling I have. I’d rather trade him to Ottawa for Vermette… this makes so much more sense to me.

Kovy Vermette Williams

Kozy Little White

Perrin Reasoner Armstrong

Thorburn Slater Boulton

By Trixie (Rawhide's Secretary)

August 18, 2008 3:29 PM | Link to this

glovesave29 - I have successfully dealt with the linkage issues from your 3:13 pm post.

Honesty, you are going to have to attend my next Basic Linkage 101 class!

By glovesave29

August 18, 2008 3:34 PM | Link to this

Thanks Trixie…just send me a bill!

By Ryan

August 18, 2008 3:37 PM | Link to this

Waddell also said that Zhitnik played a big part of our future and then cut him a month later. So Bob if coach says he wants 30 from White it could be just to drive up his value when we are shopping him around. I wouldn’t believe everything you hear in the press. Not because they are compulsive liars but because we don’t know what deals are being offered that we are not privy to. You had to think Zhitnik was offered up for a bag of pucks before we cut him.

Ranollo I didn’t even think about Dubinsky. Another reason to get a year or two out of Sundin until he comes along and clear the cap space by jettisoning Gomez or Drury. The two Tony’s were posting that chemistry there was just awful, so this could just be a shakeup thing to clear things out. Prucha I think is becoming one of those players who is not so young anymore that you can say he is just around the corner from taking his skills up a notch yet his skills are at least good enough to make the roster but that’s it. Call him the NY version of Jim Slater. As well, he is still a restricted FA, so they can use him as trade bait for something else which might not be a bad thing for him to get out of there, but that would make him fallout as you say.

By GaVaHokie

August 18, 2008 3:46 PM | Link to this

Prucha I think is becoming one of those players who is not so young anymore that you can say he is just around the corner from taking his skills up a notch yet his skills are at least good enough to make the roster but that’s it. Call him the NY version of Jim Slater.

I’ve been thinking he’s the NY version of Nik Antropov… a guy who lacks consistency but is fully capable of throwing up good numbers.

By Tony

August 18, 2008 4:00 PM | Link to this

Hokie, I have actually made the “affordable Holik” analogy myself before. I was just answering ThrasherNY’s question about our PK. I think we are in sync with each other 100% on this one.

Ranollo, if Slater is the permanent 4th line center that I think many people see him being, the PK is a perfect place for him to develop and get more toi. He’ll be a fresher option too.

By ranallo10 (in AT)

August 18, 2008 4:02 PM | Link to this

glovesave — Trixie did a good job fixing those up, not too shabby of uniforms. My only complaint about the uniform would be the primary logo…it reminds me of basketball (Hawks) or football (Air Force Falcons).

However, I like the color combinations, even though it’s missing the maroon. The tertiary logo is sweet, and would be pretty cool as the Alternate’s badge too (like Calgary does with the old Atlanta Flames A). I also like the secondary mark.

It goes completely away from the current model (obviously), which sucks because I really like the tie up collar (they have on the third logo) and the words down the sleeve (cool throwback in my opinion).

For the first two jerseys I’d give them a grade of B+ and B. The alternate uniform I’d give an A. I love the old school design and color scheme, and the third logo definitely compliments it well.

Very cool.

You should inquire about extra credit in Trixie’s course…it’s well worth it.

By GaVaHokie

August 18, 2008 4:14 PM | Link to this

I’d like to see a Third Jersey with Atlanta across the front spelled out like the columns on Philips Arena.

By Disgusted Fan

August 18, 2008 4:21 PM | Link to this

White did perfectly fine as a third line center which is what he was, is and will be. Don Waddell was the fool who thought White was suddenly a first line center. Waddell overpaid him and annoited him a first line center but that does not make it so. It really is that simple. Waddell’s biggest and ongoing failure is to fill the void from Marc Savard’s departure. How many years has it been now?

By R. Stroz

August 18, 2008 4:28 PM | Link to this

What we really need is a third player that skates around the ice, and then for no real reason, falls on his arse like White and Slater.

We could name that line the Bowling Ball line, the Ice Cleaning line, or the Leg Whip line.

I wonder if Esposito flops? :)

By Ryan

August 18, 2008 4:30 PM | Link to this

During one of the playoff games Hokie I sat next to a fan who came down from NY. We talked good hockey but he kept going off about how Prucha was the next big thing. Oh how I wish I could sit next to him in a game this season.

When did White play third line center Disgusted Fan?

By Ryan

August 18, 2008 4:49 PM | Link to this

Disgusted Fan, White I know was on the top two lines with Ottawa because he had spent time with Hossa (although he and Radek Bonk both played on the top line). It was talked that when he first came here that might get some of the old chemistry back together. In Minnesota he wasn’t a third line center either, that was the year Wes Walz came back and White was the top center. I want the guy in the booth as much as anyone else, read above, but he has never been a third line center.

By R. Stroz

August 18, 2008 4:57 PM | Link to this

Here’s another idea:

In order to assist the Atlanta Spirit Group in raising revenue, the ASG could contact Procter & Gamble to see if they would be a team sponser in exchange for White doing squeezing the Charmin commercials on the Jumbotron during TV time outs.

By R. Stroz

August 18, 2008 5:06 PM | Link to this

In all fairness to Charmin, he started off slowly, then had about 20 decent games (a few game winning goals), and then looked like he ran out of gas the remainder of the season.

My guess is that Charmin wasn’t used to top line minutes with the Wild, and as last season wore on, he couldn’t take the season long physical grind required by 1st line forwards.

By Sara

August 18, 2008 5:08 PM | Link to this

No one seems to like Crusher as the top line center, although since he’s never been given an opportunity I don’t know why everyone is so certain. Look, the roster is what it is, for whatever reasons. There was no alternative out there for a top line center this year - at least not a really good one along the lines of what we all hoped for. And I hate to break it to ya but the FA market looks just as dismal next year so about the only hope this club has is either a) some amazing trade comes available sometime during the season or b) one of the young centers we have now steps up to the plate on that first line.

Slater obviously isn’t going to get moved up, he fits where he is. Little I expect to see back on the 2nd line since he seemed to be working well there during his second stint with the team. Given the White-on-the-top-line experiment went bust, I don’t expect to see that again, which puts him back on 3rd line as a center with Reasoner to the wing (a role he fills also) or Reasoner centers that line and White moves to the wing. Crusher goes to the top line with Kovy and we give it a go. If it doesn’t work out, I expect to see them move Little up and Crusher down.

By ranallo10 (in AT)

August 18, 2008 5:34 PM | Link to this

Sara — Reasoner is the better faceoff man, so I’m assuming he’d get the draws (where they play from there can be different though).

Christensen is also pretty good at faceoffs, which benefits his linemates, and potentially Kovalchuk.

Though I’d rather see Little develop chemistry with Kovalchuk, I think Christensen is the best option on the roster considering skill and ability to handle top line defenders. Little is risky in that position, but I’d be all for giving him a shot too.

White and Perrin on the wings is my assumption, because I sure hope Anderson knows better than to put Little on a wing.

Unless a trade is made, Stuart and Sterling will be battling with Little for the sole spot of youthful injection to this roster (the way I see it). I think Little has the edge already.

By NASCAR Dave

August 18, 2008 6:59 PM | Link to this

Unless a trade is made,

Nope. The roster is set. What you see is what you get…

Stanley Cup, here we come!!!

LMAO

By ThrashDawg

August 18, 2008 7:21 PM | Link to this

I am sure Nascar will agree that we need to move Slater, White, Perrin and Exelby in order to play the younger guys. I know he has stated this before and I whole heartedly agree! Bring on Stuart, Sterling, Little, Lavalee, Bogosian and Kulda. I want to see these guys play this year even if it means at the expense of the veterans named.

By Tony C.

August 18, 2008 7:32 PM | Link to this

Holly Gunning has said she believes Sterling to be trade-bait

By ThrashDawg

August 18, 2008 7:37 PM | Link to this

And Espisito!

By ranallo10 (in AT)

August 18, 2008 7:48 PM | Link to this

Tony C. — Of the prospects in the Atlanta system, he makes the most sense as trade bait. Valabik being a close second.

I don’t want to see either traded, but if a top RW/C can be had in exchange (one that is both young and can be locked up through the 09/10 season), then I might reconsider my opinion. I think Valabik has the biggest potential of coming back to haunt us if traded. Sterling, though he can produce at the AHL level, can’t be given a fair shot for at least another year in Atlanta (by “fair” I mean one where he’s playing second line minutes on the left wing, not the way Hartley defined the term). Personally, I think he can learn to score at the NHL level…but if the right trade came along I wouldn’t complain TOO much about his departure. The return has to be a top line talent (RW or C works for me), or I just don’t think it’s worth it otherwise.

By Alan

August 18, 2008 9:14 PM | Link to this

ranallo - I would try to shop Oystrick before shopping Valabik. Oystrick still needs some seasoning, while Valabik can conceivably take a spot in the lineup this season and contribute.

By Tony C.

August 18, 2008 9:15 PM | Link to this

Amen. We’re still too thin @ RW for my liking. I was hoping that DW would get Vrbata, as well as Williams or Morrison.

Guess who doesn’t work in the Thrasher’s front office?

By Barry

August 18, 2008 10:17 PM | Link to this

I think White on 2nd line center is just fine. The real question for me is where does Little fit in. He seemed to do very well while playing wing and seemed to need another NHL year of experience before being thrown into top 2 line centerman duties. He’s only what 20? No need to rush him into anything. I’m also wondering what is going on with the minimum cap issue? Aren’t we still a few mil below the minimum? The only way it seems we are to even reach the cap minimum is to do a trade. It’s not like we have room to sign someone else.

By ranallo10 (in AT)

August 19, 2008 3:32 AM | Link to this

Barry — The minimum should be met with Valabik and Bogosian’s contracts, if both make the roster.

Bogosian’s bonuses should push them over the floor.

The interesting team to watch is Los Angeles, as they’re WELL below the floor and no expensive signings in sight.

Alan — Valabik’s ability to take a spot and contribute is why he’d be the better trade bait. If Oystrick isn’t ready for the NHL yet (as you said, needs seasoning), then why would any other NHL club give up something decent for him? Maybe as a sweatener, but not as the central piece. I don’t want Valabik traded, but of the defenders in this franchise’s depth chart he’s got the most value and highest upside of the attainable defensemen (Bogosian and Enstrom should rightfully be unattainable).

By Ryan

August 19, 2008 9:29 AM | Link to this

I see that Disgusted Fan didn’t reply to my post but R. Stroz did.

“My guess is that Charmin wasn’t used to top line minutes with the Wild, and as last season wore on, he couldn’t take the season long physical grind required by 1st line forwards.”

Your guess is totally wrong. When White was in Minnesota he lead all centers in minutes per game. As well, the two years before that he lead all Ottawa centers in minutes per game. So to make a claim that he wasn’t used to top line minutes is completely wrong. That’s all he’s ever gotten is top line minutes.

This is also wrong because these are professional athletes. Are you telling me that an NHL player can’t handle going from 3rd line minutes to 1st line minutes in their physical condition? If Jim Slater scores 4 goals and 8 assists in the first 10 games, should we not give him time with Kovalchuk because he never played top line minutes before and can’t 82 games of playing top line minutes. That’s crazy and wrong. The guy flopped because he just couldn’t make the pass or simply didn’t score enough. There’s no statistical evidence anywhere that says he wasn’t conditioned. Based on his previous years’ experience there is evidence that says otherwise.

By ranallo10 (in AT)

August 19, 2008 10:32 AM | Link to this

Ryan — I think the difference they are trying to bring up between “first line” and “third line” minutes are the types of players they get lined up against, not the true amount of minutes regarding conditioning.

Do you feel comfortable knowing Todd White is lining up against Lecavalier, Stamkos, Brindamour, Staal, Backstrom, or Federov (just the centers from the SE division)?? Would you feel more comfortable knowing he’s lining up against the less proven centers in the league, and possibly being the “better” center on the ice?

Personally, I’d rather him on the second line at the highest, and I think he’s best suited for defensive style play with scoring wingers. He is defensively sound (in my opinion), and is not too shabby at keeping up with a rush and being in a good position to help his teammates (by scoring, or giving a good pass). In my opinion he’s not a top line center, but he’s no schmuck as others try to make him seem. His game is tougher than people like to give him credit for, and his size is the primary reason most people think he’s soft (at 5’10 he’s bound to get knocked over more than a person 2 inches taller and 40 pounds heavier…it’s physics). Daniel Briere is on the ice far more often than White, yet I don’t hear many people around here criticizing him for being Huggably Soft like they do White. (For the record, I think Tony C. is the person who agrees with me that Briere flops like a Olympic diver, if it was another blogger my apologies for not remembering).

Anyway, White’s a serviceable center in my opinion, has the talent to play wing, and can chip in quality minutes in the PK and even strength situations. He’s not a franchise/top line center, but he’s not glaringly worse than any of the other centers on this roster (including Eric Perrin, who many fail to remember was handled very similarly across the ice).

By GaVaHokie

August 19, 2008 10:44 AM | Link to this

I think a lot of our offensive success will come from the backend, the puck moving defensemen like Enstrom, Hainsey and Bogosian. It’s a crying shame we don’t have Nikulin to add to that mix.

In Anderson’s system, the more guys you have to bring the puck up the ice, the better… especially when it’s from your defense.

With good outlet passes from Enstrom, Hainsey and Bogosian, we should see a lot of 3 on 2 situations from our forwards.

By Alan

August 19, 2008 10:45 AM | Link to this

ranallo - I guess my point is, we should try to offload someone else instead of Valabik — at least, at first. Valabik’s size, strength, and persistence is something we could have used last season before we started going downhill. I liked what I saw in the games he did play with us, though I thought he could have done better. With the training he’s supposedly received during this offseason, as well as the experience of winning the Calder in Chicago, I think he’s ready for a real shot. I would hate to see that shot come with another team, though.

I’d give him up only if absolutely necessary. Remember, Kovalchuk didn’t name names when he asked for a number one center. That number one could be anyone — even Little or Christensen.

By Ryan

August 19, 2008 11:00 AM | Link to this

You seem to be one of the level headed ones around here Ranollo so I’ll get into this with you. First off, Stroz’s statement started with

“..wasn’t used to top line minutes with the Wild”

That is completely false because whether you are talking number of minutes or 1st line forward versus 3rd line forward, White was the 1st line forward AND lead centers there in number of minutes.

Now, when the next part of the statement is made

“…as last season wore on, he couldn’t take the season long physical grind required by 1st line forwards”

That implies there is a conditioning factor. If you are going to use words like “grind” and “wore on”, you are implying he is not physically fit. How can this not be about conditioning if you say he started out ok but then as the season “wore on” he ran out of gas? Combine those words and saying that he never had top line minutes and it paints a picture that he was not cut out to be a top line forward due to his never being one before. Look at Minnesota and Ottawa, you couldn’t be further from the truth. Todd White was always a first line forward and showed no signs of not being physically fit to continue being one.

As for your question of where would I want him to play and who against, go read the 2nd post of this blog. I said I wanted him on the bench. But as much as I would want him there, I am not going to make up fabrications about his experience or take “guesses” that lead others to form conclusions that aren’t true. R. Stroz replied to my post with a guess and I am simply presenting the facts that say he is wrong, what say you?

By ranallo10 (in AT)

August 19, 2008 11:08 AM | Link to this

Alan — I agree regarding what I would do with Valabik. I like the kid, and think his size and physicality would be a much needed element for the Thrashers blueline for years to come.

Unfortunately I thought the same thing about Coburn, and I’m worried Valabik will be treated accordingly (low minutes per game, over staying his welcome in Chicago, eventually being traded away for a quick fix).

However, when talking about trades I choose to think from the aspect of the team receiving the Atlanta player. I don’t think anybody would be sold on Oystrick, Denny, Lewis or Kulda before they’d show interest in Valabik.

For trade bait, you need to give something special to get something special in return. If a defensive prospect is the person traded from Atlanta, he has much more value than all but two of the current youthful defenders (Enstrom and Bogosian).

So while I don’t want to see him traded, he’s the most likely IF something like that were to happen. In my opinion, of course. Sterling and Little are the most likely forwards to be traded, due to their value on the market. Sterling makes the most sense due to the immediate logjam at left wing, and his inability to shift to right wing at the NHL level (I wouldn’t expect him to be able to do that, either).

By ranallo10 (in AT)

August 19, 2008 11:24 AM | Link to this

My feelings about White are quite simple. He’s an adequate middle-tier center, that gets a bad rap around here because of his being mislabeled a “number one” center, and because was sold as the solution to Kovalchuk’s missing center.

On an ideal team I don’t think White would have many minutes beyond the third pairing, but the Thrashers are far from an ideal team. He plays hard every game, scored some timely goals for the team, and played well in every position asked of him (though playing “well” is all subjective). His salary is not cumbersome, which is extremely useful in the cap era.

Since he’s one of two players signed beyond 2010, I’m going to choose to find the positives in his playing style and not dwell on the negatives. He’s here to stay, and unless something drastic happens (buy out or trade) we’re all going to have to deal with him as a center/versatile forward for this team. Personally I don’t think he should be getting top line minutes, but until someone on the roster proves they’re better equipped to handle that role, I don’t see why he shouldn’t be up there.

By Tony

August 19, 2008 11:32 AM | Link to this

his size is the primary reason most people think he’s soft (at 5’10)

Since I have not seen opposing teams wiping the ice with White, I have to believe this is true that some people are making the bonehead mistake of just basing this on his size and not actual play. That’s stupid, hasn’t anyone heard of Michael Peca? He’s a scrawny little guy that only won the Selke Trophy for his hard hits.

Alan, as for Valabik, I want to hold on to him just because he is close to playing now. Just like Coburn, if we trade away a player who is right on the cusp, it seems like we are in this endless cycle of always waiting for the next player to develop in the system. Then they blossom somewhere else while we wait for the next guy.

Ranollo, I disagree that the other guys wouldn’t have value just as much. I’m not saying it’s fact, but every other team has their scouting reports, they might hold some of these guys very high for all we know. I don’t know who was drafted where, but Oystrick seemed to be a big prize when we got him. Lewis was up there too I think. Some of the fact checkers here can validate. So they might be a bit further away, but can still have great value.

By Ryan

August 19, 2008 11:43 AM | Link to this

Fair enough Ranollo. I am with you that he is a serviceable center. There is just plenty of other ammunition out there, we don’t have to make stuff up about these guys. As well I am going to defend my own posts if someone replies to one of them.

Thank you Tony for the Peca reference. I remember him in more than one highlight laying out someone. And he was small too but definitely not soft.

By R. Stroz

August 19, 2008 12:01 PM | Link to this

Ryan - As you like to say show the facts. Provide a link showing White’s minutes per game for the last six years.

By R. Stroz

August 19, 2008 12:15 PM | Link to this

Brian - Too bad you don’t defend your name by posting under it. Ryan and Tony talking to each other is a joke. Are you trying to convoince yourself? Do you talk to yourself often? Have you considered treatment for this problem? Where are William and J today.

You have more personalities on this blog than Herschel Walker.

Here’s Brian in front of the computer keyboard

By ranallo10 (in AT)

August 19, 2008 12:21 PM | Link to this

If teams aren’t clamoring for the services of a UFA like Mark Popovic, there’s likely not much interest in Oystrick. They’re the same age, and Popovic has plenty of experience at the NHL level compared to Oystrick. So, I don’t think any teams would take Oystrick unless he was part of a package.

Lewis and Denny have proven little, and need plenty of seasoning (Denny bounced between Gwinnett and Chicago last season). Kulda came out of juniors and shined, but still needs time to develop his professional hockey game before being considered a quality prospect. In all honesty, the defensive corps in Atlanta may be filled with some young and talented minor leaguers, but I have a hard time believing many of them will turn into anything more than 3rd pairing defenders. If, as a fan, I can come to that assumption, I’d be willing to bet that many scouts can see similar things.

I’m not an experienced NHL scout so PERHAPS I’ve missed something on those talents, but I don’t think anybody is wasting Waddell’s cell phone minutes trying to acquire any of the defenders I just mentioned.

By Ryan

August 19, 2008 12:44 PM | Link to this

Oh R. Stroz, this is like shooting fish in a barrel. These links clearly show Todd White played first line minutes.

Minnesota Wild 2006-2007

Minnesota Wild 2005-2006

STRIKE YEAR

Otttawa Senators 2003-2004

Ottawa Senators 2002-2003

Notes – these are the links for the years I provided. I don’t see why you are asking for 6 years worth of stats. Although Koivu slightly edged him out in ’06-’07, it certainly wasn’t by much (16 seconds per game) and when considering the year before it was almost 4 minutes in favor of White, the 2 year average clearly favors White. Same with Bonk in Ottawa, one year they were tied, but the other year White had more, so the 2 year average there favors White again. Smolinski was traded from LA and as the link shows, the year he beat White were his LA numbers, so those don’t count. The next year when they played on the same team, White had more minutes as the links show.

By Ryan

August 19, 2008 12:56 PM | Link to this

It seems I have too many links for one message and it got blocked. Let me try this again in separate posts.

These links clearly show Todd White played first line minutes.

Minnesota Wild 2006-2007

Minnesota Wild 2005-2006

STRIKE YEAR

By Rayn

August 19, 2008 12:57 PM | Link to this

Otttawa Senators 2003-2004

Ottawa Senators 2002-2003

Notes – these are the links for the years I provided. I don’t see why you are asking for 6 years worth of stats. Although Koivu slightly edged him out in ’06-’07, it certainly wasn’t by much (16 seconds per game) and when considering the year before it was almost 4 minutes in favor of White, the 2 year average clearly favors White. Same with Bonk in Ottawa, one year they were tied, but the other year White had more, so the 2 year average there favors White again. Smolinski was traded from LA and as the link shows, the year he beat White were his LA numbers, so those don’t count. The next year when they played on the same team, White had more minutes as the links show.

By ranallo10 (in AT)

August 19, 2008 1:08 PM | Link to this

Well, while the stats you provided may show White had the highest TOI for anyone with a “C” next to their name, it unfortunately doesn’t show that in Minnesota both Pavol Demitra and Brian Rolston played center for their top two lines (Rolston rolled all over the place, playing wing and Center, and probably would’ve played Goalie and Referree if asked).

Demitra was brought in as the center to compliment Gaborik.

By Ryan

August 19, 2008 1:11 PM | Link to this

Both of those are me above, I just erased my name because I couldn’t figure out why it wouldn’t post after a half an hour and tried it again. I eventually figured out it wasn’t blocking me but my post with 4 links in it. So I typed my name differently just to be safe.

As for you R. Stroz, you are the one who responded to my post, I didn’t pick a fight with you. I find it laughable that you are clearly in the wrong here and the best you can do is accuse me of being another person. Why didn’t you accuse me of being this person yesterday, or last week, or last month. You seem to get proven wrong and to save face you accuse the person of being this mysterious Brian and that helps you regain your composure. If you have facts, present them. If not, please do not resort to name calling to prove my facts wrong. It is childish and after all, you are the one that asked me for facts.

By R. Stroz

August 19, 2008 1:19 PM | Link to this

BRyan

In Atlanta, White played more minutes per game game than in Minnesota. So add another year of life and another average minute per game and you get a player that wears out as the season goes on.

White’s point productivity as a Thrasher diminished as the season wore on

as last season wore on, he couldn’t take the season long physical grind required by 1st line forwards

The facts prove this to be true.

Also, many of White’s minutes in Minnesota were dedicated to the PK thereby padding his average minutes per game.

By ranallo10 (in AT)

August 19, 2008 1:20 PM | Link to this

Here is some interesting facts I saw in the links provided…

In 2002-2003 Todd White had the second best +/- out of all Senators forwards with a +19 (second to Havlat’s +20). In that year he had a +11 compared to Hossa. In 2003-2004 White was by far the person to least benefit from the high scoring offense, as his +12 ranked him 7th on the team…however, it was AGAIN better than Hossa’s +4.

It’s obviously a small sample, but I think it kinda shows that perhaps a high powered offense doesn’t always benefit a player’s +/- as much as a solid defense and good linemates will. Hossa clearly is the better all around player, but for those two years as teammates in Ottawa, White seemed to be the more defensively responsible one (based on this one stat).

By Gregg49

August 19, 2008 1:23 PM | Link to this

Is it just me, or have the past few blogs been like 1 guy psoting to himself over and over agian. Ryan, Tony, Danielle, Smitty = all the same person - What is him name, Stroz? Brian??

By R. Stroz

August 19, 2008 1:26 PM | Link to this

Well Brian, if that’s not you, then you won’t mind that someone took care of a certain person’s ASG discount next season will you?

By Ryan

August 19, 2008 1:28 PM | Link to this

That is a very good point Ranollo. YOU MUST BE BRIAN! Just kidding. Seriously, Rolston as you say was all over the place, so he wasn’t just at center. So it’s not like the portion of minutes he played there would’ve passed the minutes White has which are 100% at center. Besides, are you going to get so granular that you are going to argue that little bit when if you look over the span of the 4 years, it is very clear that White was not some 3rd string center and was given a good dose of minutes. If you want to fight over the something like this tiny detail, I got better things to do.

I also want to add, never in my life have I had to defend a guy who I said I wanted to be on the bench.

“Also, many of White’s minutes in Minnesota were dedicated to the PK thereby padding his average minutes per game.”

Can you provide a link R. Stroz showing the number of PK minutes that White played in Minnesota? You were the one who asked for links, now it’s your turn to provide one. Or are you just going to cry like a little baby and call me Brian?

By Gregg49

August 19, 2008 1:31 PM | Link to this

Oh I see so “William” and “J” are also this Brian guy. Along with “Ryan”, “Tony”, “Smitty”, “Danielle”,etc. haha what a loser.

By R. Stroz

August 19, 2008 1:35 PM | Link to this

Rawhide - In order to verify my identity, please inform everyone that I post as R. Stroz and Jethro, not Ryan, Tony, William or any other of the new names popiing up on the blog. Unlike Brian, Ryan, Tony, J, I’m willing to request third party verification.

By Ryan

August 19, 2008 1:35 PM | Link to this

Can you at least say that White has been more than a third line center his 4 years before Atlanta Ranollo? I believe that was my original claim. Welcome to the blog Gregg49, I see since you are new I must be you.

By Ryan

August 19, 2008 1:38 PM | Link to this

Can you at least say that White has been more than a third line center his 4 years before Atlanta Ranollo? I believe that was my original claim. Welcome to the blog Gregg49, I see since you are new I must be you.

By ranallo10 (in AT)

August 19, 2008 1:41 PM | Link to this

Well, since I have followed the Senators and the Wild for various reasons, I would say I never considered White to be their top center. Rolston, Demitra, Spezza (eventually) and even Bonk were the ones I considered the top centers. But honestly, I usually was more interested in Hossa or Gaborik than White…and I’m sure my viewing and boxscore searching was influenced as such.

By Ryan

August 19, 2008 1:48 PM | Link to this

After you are done getting your verification R. Stroz, can you provide a link R. Stroz showing the number of PK minutes that White played in Minnesota? You were the one who asked for links, now it’s your turn to provide one.

In case you haven’t noticed, people come here to talk hockey. You are the one who started the name calling and crying like a little baby in front of everyone. I am sure I can verify that I am not Brian as well. But if all you are going to do everytime you challenge someone and they prove you wrong is say YOU’RE BRIAN! then I think you need to go back to your Jethro routine. Why exactly are you so upset with me when I just provided the links you asked for. Why did you even reply to my posting in the first place that was directed towards “Disgusted Fan”? I’ve got work to do, if this ever becomes a hockey blog again it would be nice. We were having some good talks here.

By GaVaHokie

August 19, 2008 1:48 PM | Link to this

Stroz… White’s minutes didn’t start diminishing until March, which is when he suffered the elbow injury. Even with that injury he played between 10-14 mintues a game.

By Gregg49

August 19, 2008 1:50 PM | Link to this

Brian - get a life loser. or a job.

By R. Stroz

August 19, 2008 1:55 PM | Link to this

*In all fairness to Charmin, he started off slowly, then had about 20 decent games (a few game winning goals), and then looked like he ran out of gas the remainder of the season.

My guess is that Charmin wasn’t used to top line minutes with the Wild, and as last season wore on, he couldn’t take the season long physical grind required by 1st line forwards.*

Ryan’s response - Your guess is totally wrong.

Well according to ranallo10 and the following stats which showed White didn’t even score a point in his last eleven games

It looks like Ryan is the one who is totally wrong. That’s the facts.

By Ryan

August 19, 2008 2:15 PM | Link to this

“My guess is that Charmin wasn’t used to top line minutes with the Wild”

How were you correct on that R. Stroz. I have provided the links for his four years before Atlanta and he was a top line player getting top line minutes.

Although you have used Ranollo’s stat, Hokie has shown us that White’s minutes didn’t go down until March and when he was pointless he had an elbow injury. That’s right. Those last eleven games he was playing with an elbow injury.

Oh yeah, I am still waiting for that link on White’s penalty kill minutes in Minnesota. Tick. Tock. Tick. Tock. Tick. Tock.

By R. Stroz

August 19, 2008 2:16 PM | Link to this

Here’s an interesting fact, in the final one-third or 33% of Thrasher games last season, White only scored 7 points or 19% of his overall point total. Looks like his production was falling off, doesn’t it.

By Ryan

August 19, 2008 2:22 PM | Link to this

To say that 19% of his point total came in 33% of his games means that he had a hot streak somewhere else in the other 67% of the games. Didn’t you say that he had a hot streak 20 games into the season. That’s what skews the stats.

Oh yeah, I’m still waiting for that link on the number of penalty minutes White had in Minnesota. Tick. Tock. Tick. Tock. Tick. Tock.

By R. Stroz

August 19, 2008 2:27 PM | Link to this

Ryan - 167 penalty minutes with the Wild in 2007.

Let’s see 167 minutes/82 games, that would lower White’s average minutes per game from 17 minutes to 15 minutes per game.

Wake up, White was not the top line center for the Wild.

Also, White’s stats started to fall in January, long before the wrist injury.

Try again.

By R. Stroz

August 19, 2008 2:32 PM | Link to this

Brian, William, Tony, Ryan, J - you are showing everyone that has been around for awhile that you are long lost Brian.

Brian was never able to admit when was proven wrong, some patterns always repeat themselves.

By glovesave29

August 19, 2008 2:34 PM | Link to this

Hey Stroz - I am not a stats guy, I feel that there is so much more to a player that does not make it on to the score sheet. I see value in White and what he brings to the team. But what I want to know is how much did the teams goals fall as well? Was it in direct proportion as to Todd’s drop? As a center, it is his job to distribute the pucks to the scorers on the wings. Losing Hossa, no matter that he gave a half effort last season, certainly left a scoring void on the team. The constant line rolling by Waddell, an injury and the fact that, as a whole, the team packed in in once March hit has as much to do with his dropping numbers as anything. Can you supply those stats? If so, thanks…I’d be interested in seeing them.

By Ryan

August 19, 2008 2:34 PM | Link to this

Now would you also subtract all the other minutes that players had on special teams? Why are you only subtracting White’s minutes but not all the other players? As Ranollo and Bob would say that’s bad logic.

I would also ask that you provide something more official that can be traced to either the NHL or a proven newssource like ESPN. But subtracting every other minute of special teams play from the rest of the Wild roster would be a start.

By Ryan

August 19, 2008 2:37 PM | Link to this

“Brian, William, Tony, Ryan, J - you are showing everyone that has been around for awhile that you are long lost Brian.

Brian was never able to admit when was proven wrong, some patterns always repeat themselves.”

Stroz you still haven’t admitted that you are wrong. Doesn’t that mean that you are Brian?

By Frank22

August 19, 2008 2:42 PM | Link to this

Glovesave29 is Brian. Hey Glovesave/Brian - get a job you loser.

By glovesave29

August 19, 2008 2:47 PM | Link to this

Oh, not again. Rawhide already told you I am not Brian so move along Frank22 and please let Stroz answer my question…

By R. Stroz

August 19, 2008 2:47 PM | Link to this

Rawhide

Ryan has called for verification just as glovesave29 did. Can you help Ryan out?

I am sure I can verify that I am not Brian as well.

By Ryan

August 19, 2008 2:51 PM | Link to this

Can we get rid of the “Gregg49” and “Frank22” postings, these are rather ridiculous. Can we also get rid of the double postings that occur 3-4 minutes apart from each other. We can’t all blame it on being in Austria like Ranollo can.

By R. Stroz

August 19, 2008 2:57 PM | Link to this

glovesave29

in the final one-third or 33% of Thrasher games last season, White only scored 7 points or 19% of his overall point total. Looks like his production was falling off, doesn’t it.

In the final one-third or 33% of Thrasher games last season, Kovy scored 23 points or 26% of his overall point total.

I have included the Kovy stat sheet for your perusal

So although Kovy’s production fell off it was not as steep as White’s production drop. Kovy was used for the purpose of comparison because White was Kovy’s center.

By Bob

August 19, 2008 3:01 PM | Link to this

Brian was never able to admit when was proven wrong, some patterns always repeat themselves

Sorry to interrupt, and while you’re right about Brian never admitting when he was wrong and being completely over the top argumentative, I smell a different rat here. RoswellThrasher used to double post like he had Terrets Syndrome and would fixate on crazy stuff like this. Just sayin

Back to your regularly scheduled tail chasing (and no, White never was a top line center on either the Wild nor the Sens, but don’t let facts get in the way of a good meltdown from Ryan, Roswell, name du jour).

By R. Stroz

August 19,