Ice Man

By William

August 1, 2008 10:00 AM | Link to this

here’s a wild idea. let’s go get a russian defenseman that kovalchuk plays with in int’l competition and bring him on the team. then bring in some fresh young coaches. then get a whole bunch of young players, say like ones that just won the calder cup, then see if they can grow together around a young russian superstar in this league. this formula seemed to do ok with the capitals last season, why not give it a try. i’m at least will to try, i’m not a quitter. beats the heck out of losing the whole next season for what might be the next patrick stefan.

By kracker

August 1, 2008 10:16 AM | Link to this

Kincaid’s getting ripped pretty good over on the team board and he deserves it. Gee, talk about sour grapes!

By Sean

August 1, 2008 10:21 AM | Link to this

What happens with the Josh Smith situation now will give us some pretty good insight into what will happen with Kovy.

By sisu

August 1, 2008 10:22 AM | Link to this

I have heard this one before and the love of the team makes me say no! But if you think about the ownership, it is very likely that Ilya will sign elsewhere for much less than the ownership will give him….just to be on a winner!

By Nikita

August 1, 2008 10:30 AM | Link to this

I don’t think Kovy’s gonna “Hossa” us…because he’s infinitely more loyal than Hossa. People did not believe me when Hossa left — but did he leave Pittsburgh because they sucked? Hell, no. He left Pittsburgh because they weren’t the best team he could play for, and the place where he would get the most titles and salary. I don’t think Kovy is motivated by the same things. Further, we have no idea how this team will play, and until we do I don’t think we should consider trading our biggest asset for several lesser ones.

By GaVaHokie

August 1, 2008 10:36 AM | Link to this

Hmmm… well, there were 27 teams that did better without Kovalchuk on their team. Just saying, Kovalchuk isn’t the “end all” just like Lecavalier is apparently not the “end all” in Tampa.

What gets trickier is all the stars in the league getting ridiculous contracts like Pavel Datysuk, Ovechkin, Mike Richards, Lecavalier, etc.

So, trading Kovalchuk with only one year on his contract for someone the likes of Datysuk, Gomez, Vanek with 6+ years is going to be tough. Impending UFA’s in the next few years might not garner much return.

But hey, maybe one of these other GM’s is crazy enough to make that trade.

That being said… I still expect Kovy to sign a lifetime deal (like Ovechkin’s) to stay in Atlanta.

By Tony

August 1, 2008 10:36 AM | Link to this

Sisu, you can’t say that the new coaches, Hainsey and Williams (and Reasoner), new players coming up through the system (Valabik, Little, etc.), Bogosian, possibly Nikulin, plus Kovy, Lehtonen, Enstrom, Kozzy, etc. are all guaranteed to lose this year.

I don’t see how all the naysayers around here can be so sure that this team is doomed to fail. Philadelphia went to the Eastern Conference Finals last year after they were predicted not to even make the playoffs.

We are going to develop this year and then be even better the following year. We are getting better despite all the gloom and doom on this blog. Sit back and enjoy the ride or you might miss out. These young kids might just come together sooner than we expect them to and really give us something fun to watch. And they will continue to develop and get better under these coaches we have now.

By Bob

August 1, 2008 10:45 AM | Link to this

In short, do everything humanly possible to convince him that this is his team, this is his home and this is the best place for his future

I agree.

But don’t give up without a fight and trade him away out of fear he might not sign

Here’s the rub, however. They did this with Hossa. Wined and dined him, they tried as hard as they could, but Hoss just wanted out and they had to take the last minute deadline deal, our return was not as great as if we’d have traded him at the beginning of last year. Now the Spirit is losing two of their star players from the Hawks who want no part of them.

Where there’s smoke, there’s fire. And the max value you can get is now for Kovy, it dwindles the closer and closer you get to his contract expiration.

It’s a tough call, on one hand, the trading team that gets the star, usually wins the deal. But if Kovy is going to leave anyway, you want to maximize your return.

This team would survive without Kovy. Riddle me this, exactly how many Cups, nay, how many playoff games have we won with Kovy? That’s not his fault, I blame Waddell’s ineptness for that, but you see the point. This club is in need of a major overhaul, trading Kovy would certainly accomplish that.

The big picture here is that the ones around here that blame the Spirit solely for this mess, seem to be gathering alot of ammunition on their side. Waddell didn’t make the Hawks players leave and Waddell isn’t the one that won’t/can’t settle the lawsuit with Belkin.

Waddell does have his hands tied to some extent, it seems. Kincade alludes to behind the scenes knowledge about that. Brendan consistently has said that the sole reason the owners have kept this ineffective GM in place is that he’s a yes man and doesn’t complain, even though his hands are tied. Waddell said last month that “keep in mind that I’ve never missed a budget” which to me alludes to him complaining a little that they’re tying his hands, financially.

It’s a debacle, that’s for sure. How to handle it? I think now is too soon to trade him. But next offseason, when it’s open season to be able to extend his contract, sit him down and try to extend it. And if he won’t re-sign, then trade him before next season starts. Return wouldn’t be as big as you’d get today, but it’d be bigger than waiting till the last minute as they did with Hoss, and at least they would have tried to keep him.

By docsbro

August 1, 2008 10:53 AM | Link to this

To trade Kovy?…
Pass me some of that Tylenol Rawhide.
To think that we play a season without the most passionate hockey player this team has seen. Yes he has his moments but no player wants to win more than this guy and I believe he wants to win here. The bottom line is people don’t want to play here…for the same reason people don’t want to play for the Hawks… If you think we can get anything close to his ability and passion for this team you are crazy… I say if we can’t figure a way to keep Kovy here then closing and locking doors is the best answer.
At least the Gladiators up the road have commited to winning every season and somehow manage to get players to do it. I know they aren’t equal and that is because the Glads are commited….. I would rather keep them here than put up with this ownership group and the “AAA” team they keep rolling out at Major League prices. At least the Glads are what they are and nothing more or less…

By William

August 1, 2008 11:09 AM | Link to this

hokie you have to mention dipietro when mentioning bad contracts. i clearly am with the other posters who are excited about all the youth on this team. this can become a make or break year that means if the young players do come together it will be a sure sign for kovalchuk to resign here. the 2 young goaltenders came from our own system. look at the blueline enstrom exelby valabik bogosian (maybe even nikulin) not to mention we have lewis kulda and others in the farm, all coming from within. this might be our first year where we see our own fruits be the foundation of a good team. that has never happened with a waddell team before. that’s why these coaches are so critical that we have now. if little has a good year, especially with kovalchuk and williams, and other young guys like army and crusher come through, kovalchuk might just look around and say “yeah, i want to be a part of all this as these guys come together.” this year is make or break for the young guys to step up and that can be the tipping point that makes kovalchuk want to stay.

By ranallo10 (in AT)

August 1, 2008 11:27 AM | Link to this

The Florida Panthers is the closest example to the situation Atlanta is in currently and will be facing in the near future. They are a fading franchise with attendance problems and a relatively inept management group (on the whole). In the past 3 years they’ve traded two franchise players for pennies on the dollar, and each of those players were traded prior to the beginning of their last season under contract (both were traded before the draft).

Seriously, look again at those trades as they are the barometer for any trade the Thrashers could hope to get for Kovalchuk.

23-Jun-06 — Florida Panthers traded Roberto Luongo, Lukas Krajicek and a 6th round selection in 2006 to the Vancouver Canucks for Todd Bertuzzi, Bryan Allen and Alex Auld.

20-Jun-08 — Florida Panthers traded Olli Jokinen to the Phoenix Coyotes for Keith Ballard and Nick Boynton.

In a two year span they traded the second best goalie in the NHL (arguably), and their best overall player for a 31-year-old fallen from grace player in Bertuzzi, three mid to late-20s defenders, and a career backup goalie.

Does anybody feel, two years later, Florida is better off than they were before?? Yeah, their defensive corps might look a little bit better, but they’re still a non-threat to the majority of Eastern conference teams, and they have little to replace the departed pieces of Luongo and Jokinen (and after this season Bouwmeester).

You tell me, two mid-20s defenders or a fallen from grace forward, for Kovalchuk…which would you rather? I’ll take Kovalchuk everytime, and twice on Sunday.

The point is that trading a superstar is never going to net you full return, no matter when you trade him. There’s little-to-no evidence proving that value is higher at the beginning of the final season on a contract, compared to the trade deadline. Point me to one post-lockout example of a superstar being traded for equal return.

Hossa netted this franchise two mid-20s forwards, a top prospect (1st round selection), and a first round pick. If Luongo and Jokinen combined pale in comparison to the return Hossa garnered…I would think it’s enough evidence to show that not all trades are best made early.

If Kovalchuk is to be traded (I don’t think he will be nor should be), I think they should wait until the final second to do so…ala Hossa. Backed against the walls the Penguins desperately through in Esposito and a first-round pick…I could definitely see Kovalchuk and change garner much more than that, when facing an impending trade deadline.

By Nikita

August 1, 2008 11:35 AM | Link to this

Here’s the rub, however. They did this with Hossa. Wined and dined him, they tried as hard as they could, but Hoss just wanted out and they had to take the last minute deadline deal,

Yeah, whatever.

1. Hossa didn’t want to come here to begin with, and wasn’t raised here.

2. Hossa has demonstrated that his only interest is in playing top-notch hockey for the largest amount of money possible. Such that he was unwilling to do it for the second-best team in this year’s standings if he could go to the best team.

3. Hossa’s poor play is no small part of what put Atlanta in the basement last year. He lacks the ability to put in hard work if he isn’t interested.

Now, if Kovy were similar, I’d think we should trade him now. But he’s not. We raised him. He’s had good stats and stellar play and demonstrated his loyalty — what he hasn’t had is the kind of season he wants and deserves, and we have no idea if he’ll get it this year. But if we trade him, unless we trade him for an equal talent (albeit one who will not have the loyalty), we will certainly fare poorly. And even if we do well, we will do well with players who have no person stake in the Thrashers.

By Chris

August 1, 2008 11:36 AM | Link to this

I asked Kincaid the following question, and got no reply (as I figured I wouldn’t):

What kind of deal would someone cut for Kovy? And why would they be willing to do it?

Also, even if we got boatloads for Kovy, how does that make us a better team? In reality, we would have to get a pretty even value for him, ESPECIALLY in the offseason, before teams figure out their weaknesses heading into the trade deadline. Maybe we get a #1 center, but who is he going to feed? And why would someone give up a #1 center for a #1 winger? We get 2 good players and some prospects? We don’t need prospects, and we don’t need any more 2nd and third line players. We get a franchise defenseman? Who would give that up? And it’s just too much of a risk considering some of the unknowns for us (Bogo and Nikulin) plus other solid players like Enstrom, Havelid, and possibly Vlabik. I just don’t see a team willing to give up as much as they will have to in order to make this trade beneficial to us. Unless of course, Kincaid is running the team because he has already accepted defeat and has no hope for this team, he would take anything just to prove himself right.

By ranallo10 (in AT)

August 1, 2008 12:05 PM | Link to this

Nikita — Hossa took less money and a one-year contract (against the advice of his agent) in order to play in Detroit. I think that proves he’s solely interested in winning…so perhaps you should limit the criticism based on his contract size.

As he said while still with Pittsburgh, before free agency…”if it was about money, I could go back to Atlanta” (paraphrased).

By Russ

August 1, 2008 12:05 PM | Link to this

Nikita - I agree with most of your post, but not the part about Hossa being motivated by money. He reportedly left a $9 mil. per season lifetime offer (can’t remember exactly how long, but at least 8 years) on the table from Edmonton. I think right now he is motivated to win a cup and nothing else. If he gets it this year in Detroit, then he may take the best financial offer he can get next year, but for right now he walked away from tens of millions of dollars for what he sees as his best shot at the Cup.

By William

August 1, 2008 1:00 PM | Link to this

chris makes some good points. our defense is starting to look somewhat decent, our goaltending situation looks great, so what are we going to get for kovalchuk, a bunch of 2nd line forwards which we already have too much of. where i have to really agree with nikita is that hossa was part of the problem. had he played as hard in atlanta (or ottawa) either one of those teams would have done much better. he will do much better in detroit because he will not be deemed the leader and won’t have as much pressure on him which he can’t handle. kovalchuk on the other hand will continue to play hard and put forth a great effort. hold on to him and hope these young players are groomed properly by our new staff. that should be our recipe.

By Smitty

August 1, 2008 1:03 PM | Link to this

I like to think Kinkaid knows a little bit about hockey but if I am not mistaken he opined that Coburn be traded in order to help in the play-off push a couple of years ago. Look where that got us. I believe we will be a more improved team this year. It might not show in the standings but we will be a better team with more potential. True the young guys have to come through but if they do, I believe Kovy will see the future does not look all that bleak. With Kovy as captain(a position he has certainly earned) he can take this team and help mold it into a contender for the playoffs and not look to be a player in the Taveres sweepstakes

By GaVaHokie

August 1, 2008 1:13 PM | Link to this

Kind of ridiculous to have this discussion 6 months before anything can be done contract-wise.

Can’t imagine they’d trade him now before even negotiating a contract… can’t imagine Kovalchuk would even have discussions right now before seeing how the first half of the season goes.

Nope… not gonna get in a frenzy over this until November/December… pass.

By Jim

August 1, 2008 1:19 PM | Link to this

I’m disappointed that this board even Kincaid space. The guy is so off the wall on most of his stuff that he doesn’t deserve serious space.

By Done

August 1, 2008 1:24 PM | Link to this

I agree with you. As much as I agreed with Hossa for trying to wake up the powers that be and sticking to his word, Kovy is a different. We were able to trade Heatly for Hossa because of the way Hossa’s contract talks were going.

With Kovy, we have watched a tallented young man put is heart into the game and strive to improve every year over the last years, and he IS the Thrashers. Also, if you look at the history here, being made captain means you will be leaving soon. Should Kovy be captain, you bet. He steps up to any task he is asked to perform. But if being captain means he is leaving soon, I do not want to see him as captain.

By William

August 1, 2008 1:34 PM | Link to this

smitty you will find that the only place the future does look bleak for us is pretty limited to this blog. yes any team that is not original 6 or near canada will not get respect but our city just does not have the negative perception that people here claim it has. ok so boyle made 1 comment out of frustration. big deal if buffalo or boston can lose big name players a la thornton or briere there isn’t this big perception no one wants to play for them. and last i checked buffalo lost brian campbell too but they still signed ryan miller. pittsburgh lost hossa also but they don’t cry that no one wants to play for them. hainsey reasoner and williams all saw something in our team and campbell seriously considered us right to the end so the sky is not falling on philips arena. and our recent draft picks did just win the championship in chicago last season.

By Alan

August 1, 2008 1:37 PM | Link to this

not gonna get in a frenzy over this until November/December

Of 2009.

I too will pass. This is ridiculous.

By RS

August 1, 2008 1:37 PM | Link to this

Let’s see where things stand a year from now after the negotiations to keep Kovalchuk have started. In the meantime try and improve the team this year and show some progress. My guess is that Ilya will love playing for John Anderson. If the Thrashers show no progress this season and it’s clear Ilya does not intend to stay, next summer is the time for this discussion.

By NASCAR Dave

August 1, 2008 2:10 PM | Link to this

Is NIKULIN here yet???

KLEE/LARSEN been WAIVED yet???

WHITE/SLATER/EXELBY on the trade blocks yet???

NUFF SAID.

By Bob

August 1, 2008 2:19 PM | Link to this

Hossa has demonstrated that his only interest is in playing top-notch hockey for the largest amount of money possible

To you quote Yeah, whatever

Did you pay attention to what happened with him? He turned down a boatload of money, including from us, to take a lesser offer from Detroit. He was a man of his word, all he was interested in was winning. That’s very honorable and I admire him greatly for that.

Some of you are missing the point with Kincade’s idea. The basis of his idea is that Kovy is gone.

It’s a no brainer that Choice #1 in the situation is to re-sign Kovy and lock him up for his career, similar to what the Craps did with Ovechkin.

But Kincade is saying that assuming that Kovy is a goner, best to trade him then and not let him walk for nothing. However, this year is not the year to do it because you can’t even try to re-sign him to that lifetime contract yet, when can that be done anyway, next summer? Try to lock him down next summer to that lifetime deal, if he won’t sign, then you trade him if you get the right return. If the guy doesn’t want to be here, you can’t make him stay. They tried to make Hoss stayed, but free agents are exactly that, free.

By GaVaHokie

August 1, 2008 2:24 PM | Link to this

Of 2009.

I too will pass. This is ridiculous.

I believe January of 2009 is the first they can discuss an extension with Kovy (correct me if i’m wrong)… so that would be the FIRST you could really argue any of this, because nothings going to happen before that.

If Waddell offers him $9 million a year for 10 years in January and Kovy doesn’t sign it immediately?… then we can have this discussion. :)

By Toby

August 1, 2008 2:25 PM | Link to this

I’m with you Nascar. I understand Knob is on vacation, but how about some updates here.

By Bob's 5 year plan

August 1, 2008 2:27 PM | Link to this

Trade away Coburn for Zhitnik

Bench Enstrom

Sign 36 year old Rolston to multi-year contract

Tank the season

NUFF SAID

By Nikita

August 1, 2008 2:29 PM | Link to this

I know what Hossa did — IMO it was a calculated move based on long-term marketability. He wants to play on the top team, and that will boost his market value long-term. Tell me, what would happen to his market value if he took a higher payout to play for an inferior team, once that assignment was over.

(And what will happen to Kovy if he remains the best player on a very poor team, at the next contract negotiation? Will he be worth more or less than if he played at the same level for a team that made it far into the playoffs?)

Smart, yes. Honorable, no.

Kovy is gone if we don’t do well this year. But there’s not one of us armchair prognosticators who knows exactly how well we need to do to make Kovy happy, or what other factors might mitigate the decision to stay or go. Or, for that matter, how we’ll do. So discussions of trading Kovy are at best premature, if not silly.

By Buzzeng

August 1, 2008 2:30 PM | Link to this

Chris has the right point - Kincaid needs to finish his paragraph with an answer to “whom would you trade for Kovy? There’s A-list talent out there, to be sure, but who’s going to give up “their” Kovy for ours? Even if we can trade him straight up for a Datysuk, would that player be as happy, and play as well, in Atlanta? It sure looked like the answer to that question was “no” for Hossa.

I like Kovy - he plays with enthusiasm and emotion and has some amazing talent that genuinely fun to watch. If he plays like he can, his value won’t diminish over the next two years. He’s already shown he can play for a bad team; he’ll be even better on a good team and his value will go up.

A winning couple of years will go a long way towards keeping Kovy in Thrasher blue. I’m hopeful JA and crew, with some 1-year-contract-motivated players will surprise everyone and be this year’s Philly. GO THRASHERS!

By Toby

August 1, 2008 2:45 PM | Link to this

There was a rumor I read about a month ago about a trade with Vancouver:

Kovalchuk Larsen

for D. Sedin H. Sedin Bieksa

Sedins would have to sign an extension first.

Obviously this was just a rumor, but I was wondering the backlash it would have on the fans. Not that I think this trade would absolutely bring home the playoffs, but we were wondering how quick we would forget about Kovy if it meant another SE banner and some playoff victories. Thoughts?

Oh…and Kincaid sucks.

By Toby

August 1, 2008 2:53 PM | Link to this

Sorry…

Kovalchuk and Larsen

for D. Sedin, H. Sedin, and Bieksa

By Dave

August 1, 2008 2:54 PM | Link to this

Stop going to Turner Field because no one wants to play for the Braves

No one wants to play for them at all. They can’t get any free agents to sign for them. Kotchman doesn’t want to be here he just got traded here. He will pull a Hossa when his time comes.

By Russ

August 1, 2008 3:03 PM | Link to this

Toby - When I first heard the Sedins rumor, I said I would do it, but they would have to throw in Bieksa and a high end pick or prospect. That is the level of compensation I would require for Kovy right now, anything less than that you’re better off holding onto him. Also, throwing in Larsen is sweetener for Atlanta as far as I’m concerned. Unless they waive him he’s just taking up a roster spot that should belong to someone like Lavallee or Stuart.

By Thrashers27

August 1, 2008 3:14 PM | Link to this

I hate to say it, but I think I would pull the trigger on that trade even without Bieksa in the mix. Kovy is great, but the Sedin twins as a pkg are much more valuable.

By bart

August 1, 2008 3:23 PM | Link to this

The only way that I see any hope of getting some quality players around Kovy is to have new ownership. That was part of Kincade’s argument, the ownership can’t or won’t commit the $$ to attract or keep top talent. Kovy seems to be a dedicated and loyal player. It is unfortunate for him and us that he is part of a bad organization.

By Tony

August 1, 2008 3:32 PM | Link to this

the ownership can’t or won’t commit the $$ to attract or keep top talent.

bart, I’m no fan of the Spirit Group, but that was quite a lot of money they committed to attract Brian Campbell.

By five_hole

August 1, 2008 3:32 PM | Link to this

The smart thing for the Organ-I-zation to do would be to sign Kovalchuk to an Ovechkin-type-deal. Yes, I know that we can’t officially sign him until next year (last year of the contract thing). However, in the meantime, they could find out what he wants. Wine him and dine him. Make him feel loved and let him know that they want to resign him. He probably wants endorsements. Have him do commercials for Philips (maybe we could see two Philips commercials next year). After all of that (over the next 12 months) if we feel that he doesn’t want to be here anymore, then trade him.

By LAC

August 1, 2008 3:34 PM | Link to this

I can only say what is Wrong with Winning ?

As long as these little clown worthless liars who own this team are in control, we are DOOMED to not winning.

So will things change ? NO, look at our BIG UFA signings, third tier players for sure, the reputation this GM has and these owners is/has ruined this team.

We may win some games, make a few decent runs at winning, but this team as constructed will NEVER be a champion NEVER That takes an entire new mind set and direction and if ANYONE thinks don waddell is going to not be a CHEAP A$$ and continue to ruin this team futher, who are you kidding ?

Why blame a guy for wanting to WIN, and why blame him for staying in a location where winning is the futherest thing on their minds, remember stay in budget and we are moving in the right direction, problem is… we went down another deadend road led by The Master of Disaster one don waddell… What can you do and who do you blame…?

By Tony C.

August 1, 2008 3:44 PM | Link to this

The Sedin Sisters?

No thanks.

Talk to me about Pronger, Thorton, or Malkin.

Not two guys who equal ONE great player. Although they are fun to watch as well, they don’t make me tell people to shut up and pay attention when they have the puck on their stick(s).

Build around him, and like you say Mr.T, do everything possible to keep him hear.

Russian- What sites do you reccomend to keep track of the KHL/Russian players?

Oh and in other news looks like the Blackhawks landed ANOTHER big fish

GO BLUE !!!

By ranallo10 (in AT)

August 1, 2008 3:50 PM | Link to this

bart, I’m no fan of the Spirit Group, but that was quite a lot of money they committed to attract Brian Campbell.

The money had to be spent, no? $8M helped them reach the league minimum as mandated by the salary cap. It doesn’t matter if the money was for Campbell or for Hainsey, Williams, and Reasoner…it had to be spent.

The contract Waddell offered was not evidence of the ownership committing money, it was evidence that Waddell decided to try to lure a high profile defender here at an exorbitant price.

If money has to be spent, it’s not a commitment, it’s a responsibility.

Let’s say you have $10 to spend at the supermarket and you need ice cream, and could use some gum too…and with that $10 you decide to splurge on Ben & Jerry’s “Americone Dream” and some Extra original…is that monetary commitment or is that simply purchasing in the attempt to get a quality ice cream product? In this instance someone else bought our ice cream, so with that $10 we grabbed some Bubblelicious and settled for Breyers.

At least Waddell didn’t use the money to buy storebrands…

By William

August 1, 2008 3:52 PM | Link to this

bart/tony don’t forget that a lot of money was thrown at hossa. ranollo said above that hossa’s words were ”if it was about money, I could go back to Atlanta”. he just had his heart set on detroit, even to the point of turning down pitt. lac i definitely see something different that i have never seen before with this organization. a load of homegrown talent. i think most people here are excited about that and think that there is a lot of potential for this coming season. and as little leaves chicago esposito will be going through the minors so it continues to have good prospects. we are finally to the point where they are making it up to the big club and can contribute. again, look at the blueline and goalies and see how great the future looks. i think the single most pivotal player to develop this year has to be little. then we will have someone come up through the system and make it up front in addition to all the blueliners and goalies and he can really be great with kovalchuk.

By Bob

August 1, 2008 3:55 PM | Link to this

I know what Hossa did — IMO it was a calculated move based on long-term marketability. He wants to play on the top team, and that will boost his market value long-term. Tell me, what would happen to his market value if he took a higher payout to play for an inferior team, once that assignment was over

Nope, read the offers he got. He turned down a long term contract from us. He turned down a long term contract from Edmonton. He could have set up his payday and been done with it, he could have guaranteed his money and just glided off into the sunset.

But he took less money to win. Which, in fact, is a huge risk as what if he suffers a career ending injury this year? He’s done, he lost well over $50m dollars if that happens. What if he stinks this year? He just cost himself a lot of cash. That’s a huge committment and risk from him, all in the name of just winning. There is little further he could have done after this past awesome playoff season he had to up his value, he’s at his peak, which is why even his agent told him to take one of the long term deals.

Even if we can trade him straight up for a Datysuk, would that player be as happy, and play as well, in Atlanta? It sure looked like the answer to that question was “no” for Hossa

Buzz, Hoss tanked it the last year here, that was clear. But he played his rear off here the first two years, have you already forgotten the “Hossa, Hossa” chants at his awesome play for us. Didn’t he put up 100 pts his 2nd year here? He only tanked it his last year here when he became disillusioned and knew he was out of here, but his first two years here were great and he played balls out.

When I first heard the Sedins rumor, I said I would do it, but they would have to throw in Bieksa and a high end pick or prospect. That is the level of compensation I would require for Kovy right now, anything less than that you’re better off holding onto him

Bingo, I’d do that deal today as well. But would the Couv give us both Sedins and Bieksa? Probably not, but if they did, I’m faxing a contract as soon as that offer comes out of their mouths if both Sedins sign a long term deal (aren’t their contracts up at the end of the year). You don’t make the deal for a one year rental of them.

By Toby

August 1, 2008 3:56 PM | Link to this

mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm…………..

By Tony

August 1, 2008 4:07 PM | Link to this

The money had to be spent, no? $8M helped them reach the league minimum as mandated by the salary cap

Ranollo, I don’t think you can really make that argument in July. We have no idea where we will wind up, so I think the only thing we can say for sure is that we spent $4m less on Hainsey.

You bring up an interesting point but unfortunately it is not one that you can validly say now when we still have a couple months before the roster has to be set. Now I don’t believe that we will come in over $50m but you can’t say they were only willing to get to the floor when again, it was only the first week in July. What if we still trade for Vermette and still sign Nikulin, that will still effect the budget. Looking at the roster I have a hard time believing that if we did get Campbell there would not have been those other moves.

By Toby

August 1, 2008 4:10 PM | Link to this

Bob

It’s noted that the Sedins would have to sign an extension first, which, as far as I know, they haven’t yet. Probably waiting to see if Mats Sundin signs first.

By Hip Czech

August 1, 2008 4:18 PM | Link to this

Why do we continually get these Nuff Said posts that post the same thing?

Apparently it ISN’T NUFF SAID

You do not know if White/Exelby/Slater are on the trading block or not, if Larsen is on the opening night roster and Nikulin is not, then you can have the final word.

By Tony

August 1, 2008 4:22 PM | Link to this

Toby, if that was just a rumor can we really say any terms of them having to sign first were in place?

Bob and Russ, why all the love for the Sedins over Kovy? They have had a lot more talent surrounding them in Vancouver and never did much in the playoffs. Are you only basing this on the fact that they would be signed long term? If so, that’s not the strategy I want regardless of who our gm is.

By Toby

August 1, 2008 4:31 PM | Link to this

Tony

This would have been a sign-and-trade deal in which Atlanta’s terms would have to be in place in order for it to work. Also, keep in mind that it’s not just the Sedins. We would pick up Bieksa and unload Larson.

Again…this was just a rumor. Just wanted to put it out there to get people’s thoughts since we are talking about the possibility of trading Kovy in the first place.

By Russ

August 1, 2008 4:33 PM | Link to this

I’m not a huge fan of the Sedins, but they are legitimate second line (borderline 1st line) offensive players. The key for me is getting a d-man like Bieksa and a high pick or prospect along with them. As I said, that would be my asking price and honestly I don’t think any team would meet that right now, so in the end you probably end up keeping Kovy…and that is fine. I’m just saying nobody is untradeable IMO, but I would ask for a King’s ransom for Kovy right now.

Also, I’m not sure the Sedins have been surrounded by a lot more talent. The Canucks have a very good blueline and goaltender, but their forwards are about as anemic as ours.

By Hip Czech

August 1, 2008 4:39 PM | Link to this

I don’t agree with the trade Kovy now sentiment…I agree his value would be much higher at the trade deadline a year and a half from now.

But before that, do we offer him a Ovechkin/LeCavalier/Crosby/Dipietro type contract? A 10 year 100 million deal?

There’s no telling if Kovalchuk would stay, but at least it shows the organization is committed to HIM.

If he turned down that kind of commitment then trade him at the deadline. And if he did turn down that type of contract a year or so from now this franchise would be in a world of hurt at that point.

By JD

August 1, 2008 4:43 PM | Link to this

You just don’t trade a superstar. The return will never be enough and they are way too hard to come by. Build a team around them, not without them.

By Alan

August 1, 2008 4:46 PM | Link to this

*GaVaHokie * - Forgive me, I meant 2010. My mind wasn’t in the right place earlier this morning.

Dumping him at this season’s deadline is out of the question. Wait until next season, and if he doesn’t sign or refuses to sign, then dump him.

By Nikita

August 1, 2008 4:58 PM | Link to this

Yep. The ‘Couv needs all the help it can get.

By Rogie

August 1, 2008 5:12 PM | Link to this

Kincade is commenting on the sad state of affairs of this ownership and their behind the scenes agenda. He’s entirely on target about that. He believes that the goal is to gut the hockey team and sell it if (and when) they win their suit against Belkin. They will keep the Hawks and Philips. Nothing that they have done recently dispels that premise. The way they have handled management and players over the past 2 years has been atrocious. Hossa left because he didn’t believe in this franchise…players will sometimes take less to remain with a franchise that they like and where their families are happy. McCrimmon said no to a coaching offer that was purportedly “an insult” and just coached through the rest of the season with class. I like to pick Bernie Mullen’s mind to hear what he has to say…he left too. We let our GM coach all but 6 games of the season….he had a grand total of about 15 games or so of coaching experience prior to that. Don’t ya think they could have found somebody with experience to do that job? They are cheap and nobody wants to come here. The Hawks’ GM wanted to fire his coach twice and the owners said no. Hmmmm….coaches of both franchises that either are not endorsed by their own management or have virtually no experience leading their teams? I wouldn’t be knocking at the door of the Thrashers or Hawks either looking to come to town. Josh Childress leaves the NBA to play in Greece with nothing in return. Enough said.

Unless the owners sell the team to someone else, Kovalchuk will be gone. The team will trade him or just low-ball another offer until he walks. The only problem that I have with the Kincade argument is that it doesn’t matter what talent that you get for Kovy, they won’t want to be here either in time. So, the players are just a rental anyway or another way for management to cut away a big salary (Kovy) and replace it with something cheaper.

By NASCAR Dave

August 1, 2008 6:16 PM | Link to this

Why do we continually get these Nuff Said posts that post the same thing?… Apparently it ISN’T NUFF SAID… You do not know if White/Exelby/Slater are on the trading block or not, if Larsen is on the opening night roster and Nikulin is not, then you can have the final word.

What’s the problem HIP CZECH??? Are all Euros as whiny as you??? What’s wrong with me giving my opinion??? It’s not my fault you think we should keep those players… I’m just trying to help you out since you can’t seem to grasp the fact that ALL of those players SUCK… LOL

Do you see NIKULIN??? I don’t, and I don’t think any of us will, at that. That is my opinion, and here in AMERICA we are entitled to our opinions…

And the posts at 2:27 and 2:54 were not by me… RAWHIDE can vouch for that, too…

NUFF SAID.

By jwayne

August 1, 2008 7:36 PM | Link to this

WHAT THE ASG BETTER DO IS GET KOVY TO SIGN LONG TERM NOW FOR ABOUT 125 MILLION OVER THE NEXT 8 YEARS. THIS MAN IS THE BEST PLAYER IN THE LEAGUE NOW. HIS DEFENSE WILL ONLY GET BETTER

By Tony C.

August 1, 2008 8:02 PM | Link to this

You know the saying

“Winning an arguement on the internet is like winning a gold medal at the Special Olympics- Either way, YOU’RE STILL RETARDED!”

By ranallo10 (in AT)

August 1, 2008 8:11 PM | Link to this

Tony — What my post is referring to is the CBA mandated salary “floor” so to speak, which requires a team to meet a specific salary or suffer loss of revenue sharing. That minimum is $40.6M, which this team has yet to surpass (they will eventually, I understand as much, but they’ve yet to do it).

When Campbell was offered a contract, the team had about $9-10M needed before meeting that minimum restriction. $8M to Campbell would’ve been a large chunk, but still is for the minimum.

Until this ownership group spends $8M over the floor before the season starts, I will not believe anyone’s assumption that they’ve “committed” financially to a big contract, and will be in the group who feels they’re spending just enough to get by (in this instance, as close to the league minimum as possible).

You’re right, something could happen before the season starts…but until it does, and it surpasses a substantial amount above the floor I will not change said opinion about their “financial commitment(s)” for improving this team. Remember, we’re not even there yet, and would barely be over the floor after we fill out the roster with defenders.

A lot could change though, you’re right.

By Tony C.

August 1, 2008 8:40 PM | Link to this

Exactly!

When these guys (Be it DW, or the ASG or whichever jackalope is responsible) spend as much OVER the cap floor as a true “top-tier” player’s salary, can we honestly say that “the Thrashers are an organization comitted to winning and bringing a championship to ATL”???

By Alan

August 1, 2008 9:36 PM | Link to this

From something glovesave posted in the last blog, and I didn’t see until just now…

*Winnipeg and Quebec did not deserve to lose their teams. They have good fans who supported the teams. Who is to blame? *

The value of their dollar bottomed out. Economy stunk to high heavens, and the owners looked south to a country where the dollar was doing quite well. So, those two teams moved to Phoenix and Denver, respectively. Unfortunately.

Restoring those two markets should be considered, as those fans indeed did not deserve to lose their teams. But I do not believe restoration should come at the expense of a sunbelt team. Nor do I believe Balsillie should poach a sunbelt team for his grand plans in Hamilton. Once the Canadian dollar is “corrected,” things will begin to look far less profitable for them, and a NHL team in Hamilton would end up moving again anyway.

Another issue with Hamilton is how close the city limits is compared to Toronto and Buffalo, and whether those two markets will allow a third team to come within the market area (50mi city limits to city limits, as I understood it).

Here’s a question for you all: Given what happened in the mid90s to Quebec and Winnipeg, what two teams in the US are most likely to move due to the stagnant economy/recession? My money is on NYI and FLA.

By David Lee

August 1, 2008 9:36 PM | Link to this

Sounds like Dumb Arse DW and ASG would do. A bunch of idiots at BEST.

By Realistic Fan

August 1, 2008 11:13 PM | Link to this

Kovy will not be here two years from now, so trade him as soon as a good deal comes along (although Donniw W would not know that if it bit him in the a*) as Kovy will lose value every day of the remaining two years of his deal because there is no way in God’s green earth that the Thrasher can afford to re-sign him. Trade him no later than the trade deadline of the 2008-2009 season for his sake if nothing else. Waddell has failed to get the man a center, has lost his right side scoring winger, and this team is going to be dead last in the East and maybe the league when the season ends (can you say sck?). I really wonder how long before Balsille comes in and moves the show to Hamilton because the Atlanta Spirirt is nothing but clowns on parade. Anybody who thinks differently has not been paying attention the last 10 years.

By polskidawg

August 1, 2008 11:57 PM | Link to this

Rawhide - please don’t have a stroke over the possibility of a Kovy trade. I had one 2 years ago - they really suck!

Though I must admit that I might have a second/fatal one if that trade ever happens…

ranallo10 (in AT) makes a good point to me - rarely or less does the trading team win when moving a true premiere player.

Sedins? No thanks. We’ve tried small/finesse players.

By Alan

August 2, 2008 1:31 AM | Link to this

I really wonder how long before Balsille comes in and moves the show to Hamilton

Not in your wildest dreams. Sorry.

By Realistic Fan

August 2, 2008 12:37 PM | Link to this

The underlying concern is the Atlanta Spirit ownership clown posse. Long story short, they are as close to bust as you can be without being so. Anderson was hired becasue he was cheap. The Trashers (not the Thrashers) are way under the cap minimum for the year and will have to give inflated contracts to some crappy players to get to the minimum. Childress zipped off to Greece because the money was not offered here. Josh Smith will be here only because the door is closed elsewhere - notice he has not signed anything with the posse. The ownership is in a bad way and that will prompt the downfall of the Trashers. Perhaps not Hamilton, but somewhere and perhaps sooner than we would like to think as I hear season ticket renewals are waaaaay down. The fans are voting on the present administration.

By Adam

August 2, 2008 1:34 PM | Link to this

I can understand wanting to win, I can understand wanting to play for a winner, hell I can even understand wanting to play for you favorite team growing up or an original 6 team. What I can’t understand is saying all you want to do is win and be mailing it in at the same time.

If money didn’t matter and you know the team your on is going nowhere then walk into the GM’s office and say hey I know you want me to sign here but I don’t feel this is where I’d like to be and no matter what you offer me I’m not going to sign here. I think you should look to trade me now and get what you can. We don’t know if he did that or not, if he did and DW ignored Hoss then continued to watch Hoss sandbagging and still didn’t do anything them shame on him.

Hossa made millions of dollars here that I frankly feel he didn’t earn. He was being paid to play and he was playing not to get hurt. The whole situation totally F’d up the locker room and screwed what, if any, chemistry the players had. Imagine if Hoss played like the player he is last year and signed a contract here. I bet things would have been quite a bit different in the standings and not only that the FA signing this off season too. I also think if he’d’ve ask to be traded early on last year and DW obliged the team would’ve know where they stood and play better as a result. They may have made the playoffs as well.

Now Kovy doesn’t seem like that kind of person to me. He’s going to give it his all. Every year he’s played he’s gotten better. Last season while the team was falling down around him he was picking up the pieces and carrying the team on his back. (I for the life of me still can’t figure out why he wasn’t made captain mid season). Personally I think that not only does Kovy want to win I think he wants to win here. We drafted him and he got his start here. You’d hope that to help this team succeed would be more rewarding than being a hired gun for someone else.

I’d love to see X up end Hoss with a clean open ice check on Oct 24th. Also all’d be right in the world if the Penguins win the cup this year…

By Alan

August 2, 2008 2:11 PM | Link to this

The Trashers (not the Thrashers)

The Trashers? Strike two.

The fans want a winner, and feel that what was promised them during the STH meeting last season was not provided. And with good reason. That is why renewals are down. Maybe the ownership will act, and maybe a more aggressive approach for fans to express displeasure will be required. Time will tell. But your doomsaying is doing absolutely nothing to help the situation, is it?

By Thrashers27

August 2, 2008 4:20 PM | Link to this

Is it October yet?

By NASCAR Dave

August 2, 2008 4:46 PM | Link to this

The Trashers? Strike two.

LOL, ALAN that was hilarious!!! I love the logo! I can’t believe that was a real team!

Hey ALAN, you’re from Michigan, right??? So maybe Donnie FRAUDell will give you a contract to reach the Cap Floor, since you’re an American from Michigan and all… Whaddaya think???

Or, they could do it the simple way and WAIVE LARSEN and KLEE… That right there will put you to the Cap Floor, without any new acquisitions…

Funny how the FANS have a better idea of how to run this team than the people running isn’t it???

WHY is THAT???

By Alan

August 2, 2008 5:18 PM | Link to this

So maybe Donnie FRAUDell will give you a contract to reach the Cap Floor, since you’re an American from Michigan and all… Whaddaya think???

It’s worth a shot, I suppose! I could start out as a bench warmer or something. Hmm, maybe there’s hope for me becoming a NHL player yet!

By Tony C.

August 2, 2008 7:49 PM | Link to this

Or you could just skate aimlessly up and down the middle of the ice on #17’s line, basically ruining whatever until you get a concussion and then DW can talk about “an unfortunate loss of veteran leadership”…oops my bad Alan, I had you mixed up with this guy

By NASCAR Dave

August 2, 2008 8:31 PM | Link to this

Hey ALAN - I’m hunting for a Danbury Trashers sweater on Ebay… I’ll wear it with the safety orange “Fire Waddell” T-Shirt I plan on purchasing from TONY C. and wearing at the first game I go to this season… In fact, I suggest that everybody who is interested in purchasing T-Shirts let TONY know, so he can place an order… See, this is one exciting thing we have to look forward to, isn’t it???

By Tony C.

August 2, 2008 9:04 PM | Link to this

I’m considering some sort of slogan for the A$G on the back….any ideas kids???

By glovesave29

August 2, 2008 9:18 PM | Link to this

Dave & Alan…the Trashers were in the old United Hockey League (along with the Barry Melrose and Steve Levy of ESPN owned Adirondack Ice Hawks / Frostbite), which was once the Colonial Hockey League and is now the new International Hockey League. The team was owned by a crime boss and the team had busted the league salary cap alomst 300%. They were also supposedly siphoning money from the UHL (which was never proven, but league president Richard Brosal suddenly quit the week after the allogations were leveled against the team). There are also allogations that the team was there solely for money laundering.

I used to collect pucks (once had over 4000 of them) and a buddy of mine would go to the league office in St. Louis to get pucks for me and was last there when this was all going down and Brosal was cleaning out his office. I have several Trashers pucks if anyone is interested in them (that and about 1500 more my wife would love to see gone out of the house!)

By R. Stroz

August 3, 2008 12:06 AM | Link to this

Tony C. - You could put the A$G upside down, the sign for distress.

By Alan

August 3, 2008 12:26 AM | Link to this

I remember reading the story about the old Trashers club, glovesave. Sad how it all went down. I think they even won a championship, too.

That said, I think I would be interested in a puck. Maybe we can meet up at a game later this season.

By Harleyman

August 3, 2008 9:18 AM | Link to this

Here’s my take for what it is worth about trading Kovy. Lots of you say trade Kovy for something now while you can get something for him. Get what? Other good players for which the ASG will support, that will at best, continue to make the Thrashers mediocre. What’s the point? They don’t try to bring in players to build around Kovy, so why would they all of a sudden start bringing in support for players they would trade Kovy for? It would just be a never ending cycle of mediocrity. Is that what you want? I think Kovy is the face of this franchise and a great player for which to build this team around. So keep him to the bitter end and if the ASG doesn’t wise up by then, then screw the franchise. It would save us all alot of money in the long run unless you enjoy throwing your money at mediocrity. Just my two cents.

By Sage of Bluesland

August 3, 2008 9:59 AM | Link to this

I will laugh at any sheep who is “surprised” when Kovy refuses to re-sign with the team…

If the silly sheep had stopped the enabling, then maybe REAL change could have been effected?

We’ll never know, though, as the wittle fwag wavers got their way…

(and don’t worry, I’ll be there to say “I told you so”…it will be interesting to see who still IS here at that point…)

By Irish Moose

August 3, 2008 12:28 PM | Link to this

A couple of times I have emailed in the past my opinion about Kovy. I think folks are missing the main point. Nobody is saying trade Kovy if he wants to stay. Trade him now if he is going to be leaving. Fly to Russia and find out what he wants. Offer him a long term deal and allow him input on building the team around him. If he insists that he wants to test free agency then move on because he is leaving. Why prolong negative energy? Fans would rather see you build with Bogo and young talent then to sit throught 2 years of a Hossa like Soap Opera. Find out if TB would trade Stamkos and a pick for Kovy? Or LA would trade Doughty and a pick for Kovy?

By Michael Guillemette

August 3, 2008 11:21 PM | Link to this

How about this. Lets wait to see what happens this season and then if they don’t think they can sign him next summer (when we can actually offer him a contract) then we trade him. It’s not like his trade value will be THAT much lower. But whatever happens if he leaves it will be a crushing blow to an already struggling franchise. Even though I think we could get some great talent in return.

By Andrew Brunette

August 4, 2008 3:33 PM | Link to this

TONY C & NASCAR DAVE, great posts and I couldn’t agree more. Where is NUKILIN? Why hasn’t that gotten done? I’ve got a feeling we’re going to sign 3 more 4th line centers to get to the cap minimum. Ridiculous. TONY C the back can say the “THE ASG LIED”. What a joke. I want one or two of whatever shirts you’re making. For the record, Kincaid is an idiot.

By Brendan

August 5, 2008 2:15 PM | Link to this

Kovy is a tremendous bargain at $6.5 million, cap-hit, for the next two seasons. His actual salary is a bit more, of course. But I’m reasonably sure teams would be very enticed to have a potential 60-70 goal scorer at that bargain rate.

However, without assurances that Kovalchuk would re-sign with his new team, which team/GM would sell out the future for 2-years of Kovalchuk? The only way I see any kind of Kovalchuk trade working would be if Kovy chose the team he wanted to play on, presummably for the foreseeable future, and a legitimate “King’s ransom” were the return.

I can’t see any of that as likely. And from Waddell’s point of view, he surely doesn’t want to be remembered as the GM who traded Kovalchuk. For Waddell, he’s got to hold on to Kovalchuk as long as he can. He’s got to sell tickets. To Thrashers fans and “hockey fans in general.” Kovalchuk succeeds in doing that like no other player on the team.

The “idea” of trading of Kovalchuk, genuinely, hasn’t crossed Waddell’s mind, in my opinion. It exists there only when reporters and fans ask him about the possibility of a trade. Kovalchuks simply don’t grow on trees. His acquisition, via lottery draft, just may have been the greatest moment in Thrashers history. Whenever it is that Kovalchuk separates from the organization will be a sad day.