Ice Man

By five_hole

July 22, 2008 7:53 PM | Link to this

First?

I agree that this is probably best for everyone concerned. Having Brad here would have been a awkward, and a distraction in the locker room. We all saw how the Thrashers played last year with all of that circus surrounding Marian Hossa. And I wish him the best, until he plays us.

By jason

July 22, 2008 8:56 PM | Link to this

Isn’t it sad that the Thrashers have left us with so little to get excited about this season that we have to check out daily updates on the Blue Crew tryouts?

By Midfield

July 22, 2008 8:59 PM | Link to this

Ok, McCrimmon’s taken care of. But here’s the intriguing question: if Thrashers tank next season, who gets fired first - Anderson or Waddell?

By Hockey Biltong

July 22, 2008 9:11 PM | Link to this

Don’t look now, but there may be some more changes….

By Alan

July 22, 2008 9:21 PM | Link to this

You know, I couldn’t care less about basketball, but I read that article about Childress anyway, Rawhide. And I got to thinking… what could cause Childress to even consider an overseas team? Then, it hit me:

The U.S. dollar’s declining value compared to the Euro, coupled with the influx of money from Russian owners into the Euroleague, has now made Europe a much more attractive option for players.

It’s those meddling Russians! First, they whip up the KHL seemingly overnight and try to pull all of our star NHL’ers, and now they’re funneling money into Euroleague basketball!

I should have known!

By kracker

July 22, 2008 9:42 PM | Link to this

Good luck to the Beast….more or less. Apparently he is a player coach because they all seem to like him. Whether or not he is an effictive coach remains to be seen as his term here in Atl yielded mixed to bad results, to put a good face on it. Perhaps he will fare better with the well-stocked Wings D-corps.

Hartley: Get a job, please. This advice is for your own good as your UC runs out in about 9 or 10 months.

Personally, I liked the unbalanced schedule. I like 7-7:30 EST games. I don’t like the PST games. Maybe that’s just me.

By Rawhide

July 22, 2008 9:54 PM | Link to this

Hockey Biltong - Are you referring to Dan Marr’s comment regarding Pavelec that reads, “My impression was that the NHL players had confidence in front of him and training camp will certainly dictate how much he plays this season,” Marr said. “Don’s (Waddell) plan is to have Ondrej playing somewhere this season. Whether it’s with Atlanta or in the AHL, we’ll have to see.”

By LAC

July 22, 2008 10:03 PM | Link to this

Boy O Boy… The Blue Crew is a rough group… Check the Florida girls WOW !!!

By R. Stroz

July 22, 2008 11:13 PM | Link to this

LAC - Are you implying that in addition to a team filled with fourth line talent that we have have fourth line cheerleaders too?

By Alan

July 22, 2008 11:28 PM | Link to this

I don’t know, Stroz. I think some of them look promising. I just want to know which one of them is going to be Kovalchuk’s center.

By Brendan

July 22, 2008 11:55 PM | Link to this

I wish McCrimmon well. Rawhide, does anyone know the terms of the contract that Atlanta offered to McCrimmon at the All-Star break? Was it 3-months? Two years? Three years?

And if it was 3-years, why did McCrimmon turn it down? Was he offended that it wasn’t offered to him sooner? Was he afraid that the team was headed to the lottery draft, and that Waddell would get canned, and his replacement would fire him? As the “hold-over” Head Coach? Or, was McCrimmon displeased with the direction of the team, “Hossa-style?”

I suppose we’ll never know. Even Anderson’s and Waddell’s contracts are shrouded in mystery, due to “national security” concerns.

It’s all water under the bridge now. I think McCrimmon’s happier in Detroit. I think Waddell’s got his man, in John Anderson.

Midfield, I cannot envision the situation, other than the expiration of the contract, where Waddell would be released by the ASG. Waddell has them, especially Bruce Levenson, plenty hoodwinked. All I can do is “guess” at the things that run through the ASG’s minds. But here goes.

In the ASG’s thinking, perhaps, they’d feel that Waddell is the one with more than a decade’s worth NHL experience, who is so “well thought of” in NHL circles. And John Anderson … well … he’s just the “minor league guy” to whom Waddell gave an opportunity. And if you’re not buying into any of that. Let’s look at the dollars and cents. I’d bet Waddell is owed more money than what John Anderson just signed for. So, it may be cheaper to fire him? Anderson’s deal isn’t a “two-way” contract, whereby they can just stash him back in Chicago, if he doesn’t pan out. Chuckling.

But, ya know, let’s cross that bridge when we get there. This team might not lose 50 games. I’m not holding my breath for 50 wins, either. They’ve got to play the games to have any results.

By LAC

July 22, 2008 11:59 PM | Link to this

Stroz… man I am telling you the Ice Dancers of the Panthers are a whole lot hotter than the Bluecrew… We have tons of HOTT girls here, Where are they ?

Compare and correct me if I am wrong… The one from Havanna well a picture is worth a THOUSAND words !

By Brendan

July 23, 2008 12:17 AM | Link to this

I’ve already picked out my Top 5! (Shhh.)

By Hockey Biltong

July 23, 2008 12:30 AM | Link to this

Rawhide, actually my comment was aimed at the behind the scenes of the ASG.

By Sharon

July 23, 2008 1:29 AM | Link to this

Ya’ll are so mean sometimes, haha. The Blue Crew girls are an attractive group. With those skimpy outfits though, they look more like The Ice Hookers.

By ranallo10 (in AT)

July 23, 2008 7:04 AM | Link to this

I don’t know, Stroz. I think some of them look promising. I just want to know which one of them is going to be Kovalchuk’s center.

I know for a fact that Christina plays hockey, so I’m sure she wouldn’t do too poorly centering Kovalchuk.

From the prospect breakdown I found the following quote hysterical:

“Don’s (Waddell) plan is to have Ondrej playing somewhere this season. Whether it’s with Atlanta or in the AHL, we’ll have to see.”

Pavelec is going to play next season?? NO F-ING WAY!!

Anyways, the statements about Valabik were promising…I guess we’ll have a tough squeeze if Valabik and Bogosian make the roster out of training camp.

I still have a sneaking suspicion that we’ll see Exelby moved, because I think Klee fits the #7 d-man role better. Don’t get me wrong, I’d rather have Exelby…but I’m sure other teams would too.

By Ron

July 23, 2008 7:27 AM | Link to this

We have tons of HOTT girls here, Where are they ?

The Blue Crew and the Thrashers have the same problem: Attracting and keeping top tier talent.

By five_hole

July 23, 2008 7:43 AM | Link to this

The Blue Crew and the Thrashers have the same problem: Attracting and keeping top tier talent. I’ve been bemoaning the day the Thrashers let Erin Andrews walk. One of the best non-hockey reasons to watch a Thrashers broadcast I’ve seen. And she knows hockey too.

By GaVaHokie

July 23, 2008 8:24 AM | Link to this

Eh, the Panthers girls are okay. I’d say I’m a bigger fan of the Storm Squad myself.

By GaVaHokie

July 23, 2008 8:28 AM | Link to this

“Don’s (Waddell) plan is to have Ondrej playing somewhere this season. Whether it’s with Atlanta or in the AHL, we’ll have to see.”

Pavelec is going to play next season?? NO F-ING WAY!!

HAHA… I said the same thing! Gee what a news flash!

By Rawhide

July 23, 2008 8:43 AM | Link to this

Brendan - I really have no idea what the terms of the deal was last winter when McCrimmon was offered the job. Truth be told, I’ve only recently read of it from credible sources.

You’ll remember that someone posted here last February, I think, something about it…yet never named their source when prodded.

If I remember correctly, I think McCrimmon did not take the deal becasue either it was only good through the end of the season and/or it did not include high compensation. Please don’t take that as the gospel, though.

However, you are correct, I believe…it is better for him to be there and for Anderson to have some say now in who will replace him.

Midfield - Thought about your question last night. My knee-jerk reaction answer would have been to say “Waddell”…but I honestly thought last season would have been his demise.

Given the the fact that there is a new coach and a “new direction” for the team…I firmly believe that the Spirit Group will not move to change GMs during the season…they will state that the “new system” needs to be given time to work.

Not saying that’s right or wrong of them…just saying that’s what the word is gonna be if things aren’t going well during the season.

BUT… I’m hoping we won’t even have to be discussing all that. While I like the moves made so far this summer, I don’t hold any delusions that the current roster has a great chance of making the post-season. However, I also don’t see them losing 50 games either, as Brendan stated.

Still hoping another move or two is coming our way to upgrade my “optimism” level.

By R. Stroz

July 23, 2008 8:49 AM | Link to this

Why didn’t Zhitnik try out for the Blue Crew? After watching him last season, I’m sure he plays for the other team.

By Matt

July 23, 2008 8:55 AM | Link to this

Sharon Did you just start a sentence with “Ya’ll”?

My vote is for Monica. The others’ faces are frightening. Although, most cheerleaders are.

Rawhide Give us something to munch on! At least one far fetched rumor. Anything on the trade wire? Please tell me we’re working on a center.

By A$G

July 23, 2008 9:20 AM | Link to this

New Direction………..NOT

We are staying firmly with the plan of keeping expenses as low as possible and selling as many tickets as we can.

BUY THE TICKETS and the only thing we will do for you is turn the music up louder!

By Sara

July 23, 2008 9:30 AM | Link to this

AS isn’t going to fire Waddell unless he grows a pair and tells them they are all a bunch of idiots (see Mullin, Bernie and Knight, Billy). Otherwise, as long as his bottom line stays where the AS wants it and he toes the company line, Waddell is golden.

As for Beast - not real thrilled about this at all. Don’t get me wrong - I’m ecstatic he left ATL, I’m just annoyed he ended up in Detroit. On the plus side, Lidstrom and Co. already know what they are doing - surely even Beast can’t screw that up and maybe he’ll learn a few things in the process. crossing fingers In terms of his contract for last year, the last thing I heard was he and Don had a deal worked out but somewhere between Waddell taking the deal to the owners for approval, the deal going to the lawyers, and the contract being placed in front of McCrimmon to sign, the terms of the deal got changed, Beast got ticked off, and refused to sign (can’t blame the guy). The who/what/when/where/why/how of the change is unknown as far as I know.

Now, this is speculation on my part but I am strongly guessing that this incident is apparently what set Recchi off and may well have been what split the lockerroom into the two factions Anderson referred to in his meet and greet with the bloggers. Although why a coach would be discussing anything related to his contract with his players is beyond me.

That said, however, McCrimmon continued to lobby for the position after the season ended which tells me either he is truly desperate for a HC gig, or things didn’t play out quite as badly as the above rumor suggested. Cause if someone had done that to me behind my back, I would be running for the exits as soon as my contract allowed, promotion be damned.

By GaVaHokie

July 23, 2008 9:51 AM | Link to this

Josh Childress just signed with the Greek team. What a tool… not that I really care.

By Tom

July 23, 2008 10:29 AM | Link to this

I just want to know which one of them is going to be Kovalchuk’s center.

Alan, you made my day with this quote.

By NASCAR Dave

July 23, 2008 10:38 AM | Link to this

Josh Childress just signed with the Greek team. What a tool… not that I really care.

That is ALL the Spirit’s fault, HOKIE…

Once again, they were trying to go CHEAP, but this time it came back and bit them in the a$$!!!

Are they really that stupid??? Both Joshes should have been re-signed at the beginning of last season!!!

These owners are the dumbest people EVER!!!

NUFF SAID.

By ranallo10 (in AT)

July 23, 2008 10:46 AM | Link to this

It was clearly Waddell’s fault Childress signed with Olympiakos.

By Alan

July 23, 2008 10:49 AM | Link to this

I know for a fact that Christina plays hockey, so I’m sure she wouldn’t do too poorly centering Kovalchuk.

Sounds good to me. She should try out at camp. ;)

Matt - I think the big goal now is on the wing. A top tier winger. Waddell made clear that Christensen has first shot at the top center gig. We’re stacked at center with third and fourth line talent, so it’s going to be quite difficult to move (White) the ones (White) we’re not going to use (White) or have no need for (White).

And before the pessimism train comes screeching to a halt and begins unloading at the Rawhide Blog station, the biggest knock against Christensen is that we didn’t see enough of him last season to get a good judge of his talent. I don’t think he even played with Kovalchuk last season before he got injured. But to me, anything at this point is worth a shot.

If we suck this season, then at least the kids had a chance to play and get some good experience, as well as have more of an opportunity for some of the other kids starting in Chicago this year (Kulda, for example). And if we exceed my somewhat lofty expectations of a .500 season, then I think we’ll turn heads in the league and perhaps be able to land some better UFAs next season. Either way, I see the light at the end of the tunnel. But I’m also pretty optimistic about this coming season, overall.

By Nikita

July 23, 2008 11:01 AM | Link to this

Sara, the Beast deal has nothing to do with the split. It predated the Beast deal by months.

I still have a sneaking suspicion that we’ll see Exelby moved, because I think Klee fits the #7 d-man role better. Don’t get me wrong, I’d rather have Exelby…but I’m sure other teams would too.

At the risk of sounding like I’ve got something going on with Klee, let me parse the hell out of this statement and its implications.

Klee vs. Exelby…in Ex’s favor he’s younger and hits harder and might very well have some good years ahead of him. Against him, though, Jesus Christ on a cracker what horrible play that was last season. His +/- is appalling to behold, and that’s because he displayed so many incredible deficiencies. He couldn’t read the puck, he was too slow, he got angry or flustered, his hands suck, his physical conditioning was off, and he marked the wrong guy roughly every third time he was on the ice. Klee has the intelligence, he’s mentally steady, his hands are o.k, he’s a good mentor and he’s religious about fundamentals — he backchecks and forechecks and plays the body like a mutha. At his age he is limited in terms of speed and reaction time. Still, even with that, his +/- is o.k., and it’s been o.k. for his entire career — we can depend on him to fill the lower-level D role competently regardless of how hard it is, who he’s paired with, or who is facing him. He’s a workhorse, and won’t hang us out to dry while he takes a powder.

The reason to keep Ex is that he likes it here and is good people and perhaps in the right environment could become a competent 3rd-pairing man. ‘Cause let’s face it — he’ll never be better than that. He simply has neither the talent nor the intelligence. But if he comes into camp conditioned, and he’s surrounded by better players, he might do well. Plus, no matter what we do, Klee probably doesn’t have more than 3-4 more years of NHL play — Ex could be staying for the long-term if there’s room.

Also, over Klee’s career he’s averaged about double the points per season that Exelby has. But he’s an extremely stay-at-home defenseman — he may not fit Anderson’s plan.

By A$G

July 23, 2008 11:13 AM | Link to this

These owners are the dumbest people EVER!!!

We don’t spend any money on these teams and you people still buy the tickets and support the teams!

Ya right…..we are the dumb ones!

By NASCAR Dave

July 23, 2008 11:32 AM | Link to this

We don’t spend any money on these teams and you people still buy the tickets and support the teams!

Ya right…..we are the dumb ones!

Actually, A$G, both of you are dumb. The owners and the people that spend their money investing in the utter incompetence…

Don’t worry about me though, I’ll be seeing all the hockey I want to at Philips for FREE… That’s right, you won’t even get a buck out of me!!! LOL.

Is NIKULIN here yet???

Have KLEE and LARSEN been WAIVED yet???

EXELBY/SLATER/WHITE been TRADED yet???

NUFF SAID.

By Alan

July 23, 2008 12:01 PM | Link to this

Someone finally took Curt Fraser off the market. Too bad it was the Red Wings’ farm team.

By NASCAR Dave (in ATL)

July 23, 2008 12:08 PM | Link to this

Guys, the roster is set… I don’t think we’ll see any more acquisitions… Sure, we have plenty of money to spend, but it will not be spent…

WHY is THAT???

By ranallo10 (in AT)

July 23, 2008 12:41 PM | Link to this

Alan — Wasn’t he just recently available after the firing of Nolan? if I remember correctly, he was an assistant coach in STL and NY, I just can’t remember which was the most recent.

Anyways, I guess it didn’t take him long to land on his feet.

By Alan

July 23, 2008 1:01 PM | Link to this

ranallo = His most recent coaching stint was with the Belarus National Team. Before that was St Louis (2005-06) and the Islanders (2003-04).

As a matter of fact, here’s a better link.

By ranallo10 (in AT)

July 23, 2008 1:21 PM | Link to this

Gotcha, thanks for the clarification. Good for him, he was a successful minor league coach previously.

I don’t think you should be all too worried about the minor league development of talent in Detroit’s system. I think they’ve proven their worth.

By GaVaHokie

July 23, 2008 2:38 PM | Link to this

Glenn Murray on waivers from Boston… i think we should grab him. Better, younger version of Recchi.

By Smoothie

July 23, 2008 2:53 PM | Link to this

NASCAR, while I’m not foolish enough to think we are on our way to a better than .500 season, I really do think we will make a trade before camp starts. There’s a strong possibility that Nikulin doesn’t sign and we barely get over the salary floor. Even with him and an entry-level deal, I can’t see us above $42 M.

Thusly, I think Exelby and White will be unloaded (DWad will at least try I think) for a bona fide RW sniper (Knuble would be nice but the Flyers can’t afford both players…perhaps XLB and a 2nd rounder next year??). At any rate, it may not be a team over the cap but rather a team within $5 M of the cap that needs some 3rd pairing or defensive fwd help.

I see no reason, in spite of the recent developments involving a spurned Josh Childress, that DWad wouldn’t be allowed to spend up to the $47 M we spent last year. But then again, I could be wrong. The ASG may force him to mobilize the youth movement and hope for the best under JA. I’d be fine with that but think it could spell doom in terms of trying to re-up Kovy next July. Get him a good RW right now and there just may be hope that he doesn’t defect to another team in 2010.

By Alan

July 23, 2008 3:31 PM | Link to this

Another day, another Red Wings acquisition. This time, it’s Darren Haydar.

By five_hole

July 23, 2008 3:56 PM | Link to this

What’s wrong with the Red Wings that they’re grabbing all of these ex-Thrashers? I thought they were better than that.

Has anyone else ever heard of the Baseball curse that says you can’t win with more than 3 ex-Cubs on your roster? I’m thinking that Detroit is committing the equivalant Hockey curse.

With respect to Glenn Murray, my guess is that DW would wait for him to clear waivers then try and pick him up at half his salary (ala what we did with Recchi last year). If not, there are still several clubs over the cap limit who will need to dump salary. Whichever, I’m sure DW will do the cheapest thing available to him.

By GaVaHokie

July 23, 2008 4:27 PM | Link to this

The Kings are still sitting at $27 million, granted they still have RFA’s to sign like O’Sullivan and Stoll, but they need to get on the ball.

By Alan

July 23, 2008 4:45 PM | Link to this

With respect to Glenn Murray, my guess is that DW would wait for him to clear waivers then try and pick him up at half his salary

Doesn’t work that way. This is because there is no “AHL” for him to get demoted to at the present time. As such, there’s no re-entry waivers for him to go through.

If he clears, he gets bought out.

By Sara

July 23, 2008 5:46 PM | Link to this

I am betting Don picks up Murray - I’ll be shocked as crud if he doesn’t, not too mention I think it’s the right call to make here. Think about it…

1 - we are barely above the cap floor and that is mostly based on Bogosian hitting a bunch of incentive clauses he may not actually hit. Murray’s additional full salary guarantees we’ll be over the floor.

2 - he’s a RW, a position we aren’t exactly deep at

3 - he’s a veteran, something we are also starting to run a bit short on after losing Zhit and Holik and Recchi.

4 - he only has one year left on his contract so we aren’t obliged to keep him more than that which also ties into…

5 - we will still have a ton of cap space left over to make other moves if they become necessary so we can easily afford to absorb one big extraneous salary for this one year

Bottomline…picking up Murray will not hurt us in any way and could potentially help us in a number of other ways. Even if the only benefit he brings is his salary (who would have ever seen that as an asset??), I still think it’s worth it. The AS can NOT afford to drop under the floor because it will cost them revenue sharing money they need desperately. Murray is assurance that won’t happen.

By Lanny McDonald

July 23, 2008 6:07 PM | Link to this

Murray has had injury issues the past few seasons. I’m not sure if I would gamble on him or not. The Atlanta Spirit is in a world of trouble right now. The Hawks only have 8 guys signed, and they are already OVER the Cap. The Thrashers are still UNDER the Cap. Does anyone else find this funny? Sheesh, can they do anything right? No need to answer, by the way!

By Sharon

July 23, 2008 8:38 PM | Link to this

Did you just start a sentence with “Ya’ll”?

Sho ‘nuff

By Alan

July 23, 2008 9:50 PM | Link to this

Sho ‘nuff

Should I laugh, or should I cry? :P

By kracker

July 23, 2008 10:07 PM | Link to this

We Southerners spell it “y’all” but….we really ain’t too picky :)

By Sharon

July 23, 2008 10:36 PM | Link to this

I need to work on my slang, but hey, it’s all in good fun :)

By Tom

July 23, 2008 10:40 PM | Link to this

Looking at how the Atlanta Spirit Group misplayed the Childress deal on the Hawks side, do you get the feeling they are completely out of their element?

A bunch of Daddy’s boys playing in the big boy sandbox and they are getting owned every step of the way. I thought that Steve Belkin was a punk with the stuff he pulled, but maybe, just maybe, he looked around and realized he put a significant chunk of change in the hands of morons and saw he needed complete control or needed to get out.

Because they are coming across like a complete bunch of morons. Their top business managers have left, their sports guys are fools, and they can not get anything done that benefits the teams.

Fools, fools I say.

By Tom

July 23, 2008 10:48 PM | Link to this

Read this and weep… It may be old news for some but God Almighty…

Atlanta Spirit purge continues: CMO DePaoli forced to leave July 11

http://www.bizjournals.com/atlanta/stories/2008/07/07/daily70.html

By LAC

July 23, 2008 11:50 PM | Link to this

It should read Atlanta STUPID Group, because that is exactly what they are.

It amazes me that sucessful businessmen can fail a so badly at running two sports teams… They absolutely SUCK !

They are cheap as all hell, they LIE on a consistant basis and then hide when the heat is turned up, because they cannot defend themselves on any issue.

The LIAR rutherford snydell, he is good at hiding, told the masses at Philips opening night last season, Proclaiming “We are going to do EVERYTHING possible to bring the Stanley Cup to Atlanta.” Then look what they did and what happened, a total train wreck.

What I don’t get is are these guys dumb ? Stupid ? Don’t give a damn of what people think ? They act like little boys, not men, little boys, who bought something that is TOO big and complicated for them to operate… Really SAD !

Hawks lose a player, Thrashers lose players, I ask this… Why WOULD any NHL or NBA player want to come here and be on a team that clearly is not going to win, a team that is CHEAP and a team that is as poorly run as any professional sports team ever has been, bar NONE.

It is SAD, that WE the paying fans of these two teams, have to endure lie after lie after lie from things like Mr.Potty Mouth levenson THE #1 LIAR, or that piece of $HIT rutherford snydel or is it stupidel , either way we need a NEW OWNER with a passion to win and a commitment to winning and the foresight to bring in the RIGHT people for the RIGHT job, then we can REALLY get excited and go balls to the wall and start over… But if these lying little FOOLS stay in control the entire scope of both franchises is likely to crumble, the NHL & NBA need to look very seriously at taking over these teams and ridding the sports world of idiots like Atlanta STUPID Group, so a Winner can be born in Atlanta.

By 12345

July 24, 2008 3:28 AM | Link to this

Interesting to see Hawks fans agree with Thrasher fans, We need a new owner, these Sprit guys simply Stink to High Heaven !

By bart

July 24, 2008 7:34 AM | Link to this

OK we agree that ASG is the problem. Let’s have a game of replace the ‘S’. We have so far; Atlanta Stupid Group and Atlanta Stink Group. How about Atlanta Stubborn Group? as in why don’t we settle his ownership mess so we can get on with the business of fielding good teams.

By Irish Moose

July 24, 2008 8:26 AM | Link to this

I keep reading about adding Murray or this 3rd line guy or that 3rd line guy. We are striving for mediocrity. Thrasher fans want to see that something stable is being planned. We need Plan A and Plan B: Plan A- Sign Ilya long term and build this team around Bogo and Ilya. Start playing youngsters and trade one of your goalies for a solid 2nd line Center or scorer. Keep looking to add draft picks. Plan B- Find out where Ilya really wants to be, if it is a similar mindset to Hoss then trade him now. Get draft picks, or go after Stamkos or Doughty with Ilya as the trade bait. TB would have to think seriously about trading Stamkos for Ilya (proven young MVP talent which would be some match with Vinny L in TB). Then you tell the fans you are building with Bogo, Stamkos or Doughty or another teams #1 Draft Pick plus your 2009 Draft Pick. You will stink next year and your own pick could net you Taveres. Then THRASHER fans are pumped about the future. Message to DW- fly to Russia and have a heart to heart with Ilya.

By GaVaHokie

July 24, 2008 8:45 AM | Link to this

Sara… I agree on your points about Murray. I’ll also add that Murray doesn’t need to be coached. We could use someone like that on a team that will be FILLED with guys that DO need to be coached… not to mention, by a first time NHL coach.

I think he’d be a great asset and leader for John Anderson in case some of these new guys get overwhelmed.

By Hip Czech

July 24, 2008 8:46 AM | Link to this

I’m not sold on Murray…his numbers last year project out to 40-45 points (he had 30 in 68 games). And that’s playing with a real center.

Irish Moose…I agree with your plan, people are going to jump all over it because this will be the start of Waddell’s third five year plan but no use dwelling on the past. Put SOMETHING in place.

Think of the Braves in the mid to late 80’s. They stunk…they tried the tier 2 FA route (Jim Presley anyone?) and went nowhere. At some point they wised up and decided to wait on the youngsters.

Along comes Glavine, Smoltz (a good trade deadline move), Avery, Gant, Justice, etc. and they add 3 role players (Pendleton, Bream, and Belliard) and wa la, champions. Now, we all question whether Waddell has the brains or this organization has the ownership or scouting to implement a plan, but that is the scenario this team has to use.

By Rawhide

July 24, 2008 8:48 AM | Link to this

In respect to the Blue Crew… I’m sure that they are a fine crop of talented, bright young ladies and whomever is selected from this group will represent the Thrashers and Philips Arena well.

Now…if THIS young lady were trying out…then we might have to become concerned….

By GaVaHokie

July 24, 2008 9:56 AM | Link to this

I’m not sold on Murray…his numbers last year project out to 40-45 points (he had 30 in 68 games). And that’s playing with a real center.

That’s also playing through injury… I’d certainly take Murray over Bertuzzi (same issue) which most people on here were fine with.

By GaVaHokie

July 24, 2008 10:03 AM | Link to this

If Murray clears waivers, I fully expect him to sign a deal with San Jose… which would put them over the cap.

I’d look to see if they move Cheechoo. I’m still interested in that scenario for us.

I also still like the idea of trading with NJ to get Brian Gionta. That would give us two solid RW’s in Williams and Gionta/Cheechoo.

Then Armstrong can play Checking line RW and PK, which is what he excels at.

By Hip Czech

July 24, 2008 10:20 AM | Link to this

I’d like to see Gionta here also…besides, it would be fun to see him go, ah, toe-to-toe with St. Louis 6 times a year.

By The Joker

July 24, 2008 10:21 AM | Link to this

The S in ASG stands for Stupidas$hit.

By MB

July 24, 2008 10:43 AM | Link to this

Irish, you join several others in suggesting a Kovy for Stamkos trade. That’s putting an awful lot of faith in Stamkos. Sure, sure…he’s judged as a can’t miss prospect, but then again, so was Eric Lindros.

Kovy is already a superstar in this league. The only player on TB I’d swap one-to-one for Kovy would be Lecavalier, arguably one of the top 3 centers in the league.

With big star trades, seems like the team that gets the best player makes out the best. I don’t think there’s any question that San Jose got the better of Boston in the Thornton trade. It’d be interesting to go back and look at other “blockbuster” deals to see who benefitted the most.

By Alan

July 24, 2008 11:17 AM | Link to this

Sure, sure…he’s judged as a can’t miss prospect, but then again, so was Eric Lindros.

Or Stefan. Remember that nightmare?

One should also consider how absolutely moronic it would be to trade Kovalchuk intra-division like that. Kovalchuk goes west if at all, and what comes back will be at least a player of similar caliber.

By Hip Czech

July 24, 2008 11:24 AM | Link to this

Good article on Marty Reasoner

thanks to CC’s blog!

By Sara

July 24, 2008 11:36 AM | Link to this

Irish Moose I feel your pain, but sometimes it’s about looking at the realities of the situation. As we have learned from this off-season, just because we want something doesn’t mean it can be made to happen, even if ownership/management even tries.

Hip Czech you don’t really have to be sold on Murray. The #1 reason to pick him up off waivers would be to add his salary to our payroll and ensure that this team gets above and stays above the cap floor. Anything else we get out of him is gravy, IMO. It’s just too perfect really. Here’s a guy who plays the one position we are currently in need of the most (as opposed to D or C where we have a lot of bodies - talent levels aside). He’s got one year left on his contract, he’s experienced which we’ve also lost some of in the last few months, and he may well have something to prove after having a rough year after last year and getting waived.

Even signing him we should still have at least $10M of cap space left this season and he has no impact on what we need to do in the future (ie re-signing Kovy, Enstrom, etc etc).

If circumstances were other than what they are right now, I would never suggest this move. But I think it’s just the right guy at the exact right moment to make it a viable option for this season.

By Alan

July 24, 2008 11:40 AM | Link to this

Here’s a little something maybe Valabik should read before he becomes a permanent fixture on our lineup this year.

Especially #10, which is on page two.

By Russ

July 24, 2008 11:45 AM | Link to this

MB - I’d say Lindros as a can’t miss prospect was pretty accurate…and the guy seems like an a$$ to me, so normally I wouldn’t defend him. I looked up his career stats - Regular season he had 372G and 493A and was a +215 in 760 games. Playoffs - 24G and 33A and +8 in 53 games. I would say that was a pretty dominant career cut short by concussion problems.

By Irish Moose

July 24, 2008 11:48 AM | Link to this

MB

Listen, I do not want to trade Ilya. Kovy is a build-a- team around player. However, if he already is mentally gone like Hossa, lets move on now and not repeat the Hossa saga. DW needs to have an honest discussion with Ilya and let him know his plans and ask him if he wants to be a part of it. “Ilya, we are building with youth do you have the patience to wait and be a part of it?” If Kovy shows no passion for ATL and its future, then move ahead now and get draft picks or a young player like Stamkos. Look what the Penguins did with Crosby and Malkin. We could do the same with Bogo, Stamkos, and a Taveres. Is it a risk? Not if Kovy is leaving anyway.
Build with a couple of solid, veteran leaders and youth. Lets not reach with 3rd line guys. No more Tkuchuk and Zhitnik type moves just to get into the playoffs.

By Hip Czech

July 24, 2008 11:51 AM | Link to this

OK…maybe Murray fits for this year, I suppose he might even be valuable in a trade deadline deal.

When is the waiver period up?

By Smoothie

July 24, 2008 12:12 PM | Link to this

Right now, as it currently stands, we are at $37.719 M in terms of signed players. That does not include Bogosian (likely $.85 K - $1.25 M with incentives), Valabik ($.858 K) and possibly Nikulin ($1.25 M??). Anyway, even if we sign Ilya # 2 and Bogosian makes the team, we will barely get above the league minimum — is it right at $40 M??

The point is that Sara may be spot on that the Murray pick up would be very low-risk. He only has one year left and the $4 M salary will only bring us up to $44 M which would even allow us to bring in Knuble for XLB — a net transaction of $1.5 M. If those 4 things were to happen (p/up Murray, sign Niki, trade XLB and pick for Knuble and Bogo makes team), then the Thrashers would still only spend in the neighborhood of $45 - $46 M, which seems perfectly reasonable.

HOWEVER, if the ASG really is in more dire financial straits, then they will likely stay below what they spent last year ($43.65 M) and only make sure they get over the league min by signing Bogosian to an incentive-laden contract that gives him a $500 K bonus for playing in more than 40 games or something. Coupled with Valabik’s salary, an entry-level deal with bonuses should get the ASG just to or over the floor.

By NASCAR Dave

July 24, 2008 12:14 PM | Link to this

Well, well, well… So now we are talking about grabbing more tired stars of yesteryear just to reach the Cap floor??? LOL, that is such silly logic!!! Where do you people come up with these ideas??? LOL

My goodness, next the Sheep will start talking about signing LARSEN/SLATER/KLEE to extensions just to reach the Cap Floor!!! Quite amusing, isn’t it???

GLEN MURRAY is useless on this team… There is NO reason to grab him, at all… Suck it up, fans - The roster is set… We’re going with the young guys this year… And it’s about DAMN TIME!!!

All of you asked for this, and NOW you are panicking and wanting to sign washed up veterans??? Calm down Sheep, it will be ok, cut that nonsense out, though, because you are starting to think how Donnie FRAUDell thinks!!!

NUFF SAID.

By Midfield

July 24, 2008 12:17 PM | Link to this

It’s astonishing to me reading stuff about Kovy as “already mentally gone like Hossa” or “shows no passion” etc. So far he showed more passion than the rest of the team and the front office combined. Will he leave at the end of his contract? You bet, he will, barring radical changes in the ownership structure and/or the front office. Do I expect him to sabotage the team a-la Hossa? Not in my worst nightmare. And, by the way, when he leaves, I’ll be happy to see him winning the cup whoever he’ll play for.

By Smoothie

July 24, 2008 12:19 PM | Link to this

Oh yeah, to further support what Sara was saying, if we don’t like Murray’s performance / chemistry with the team, we cut him loose mid-year and most likely get help from another team on 1/2 his salary when he gets snatched up on re-entry waivers during the season. Either he scores 20-30 goals and we spend $4 M or he scores 5 G in 25-30 games and we cut him thus saving us $2 M. Most likely scenario in my humble opinion.

By Alan

July 24, 2008 12:21 PM | Link to this

Czech - Waiver period is 24 hours, from noon to noon, eastern time. So we should be finding out shortly whether he cleared or was picked up.

By Alan

July 24, 2008 12:30 PM | Link to this

Smoothie - I wouldn’t even cut him, just make him ride the pine for a while. No point in doing that when all he’s doing is eating salary. Salary that we’ll need to have eaten by someone.

I personally wouldn’t care if all he did at every game was sit on the bench and eat White Castle burgers all game. He would be eating $4m in salary, and that’s all that would matter to us as we strive to remain above the cap floor.

By MB

July 24, 2008 12:32 PM | Link to this

No doubt Lindros had a very good career, Russ, and I probably should have come up with a better example. But to me, when I think of Lindros, I still think of somebody who didn’t quite live up to expectations (which were probably unreasonably high).

My main point was that Lecavalier is the only TB player I would consider for a one-to-one swap for Kovy.

Irish, I hear you. If Kovy let it be known that he was out, no matter what, then you’d have to consider a trade. But I don’t think that’s likely to happen, and if it did, I’d want a good bit more than just Stamkos.

By Hip Czech

July 24, 2008 12:58 PM | Link to this

Murray cleared waivers…popular opinion is that Boston is going to buy him out.

By Smoothie

July 24, 2008 12:59 PM | Link to this

Alan, that’s just dumb. Why pay him $4 M to sit around like Zhitnik when we can cut him for $ 2 M if it comes to that??

Assuming you read my entire post, you realize that we’ll be above the floor without Murray, but he’d give us additional padding and the hope of maybe scoring 20+ goals for us. If he doesn’t, so be it and peace out!

By Alan

July 24, 2008 1:08 PM | Link to this

Alan, that’s just dumb.

Not really. We could use the extra assurance that we’re above the cap floor.

Assuming you read my entire post, you realize that we’ll be above the floor without Murray

Barely.

By Sara

July 24, 2008 1:16 PM | Link to this

Dave I didn’t ask for anything other than the AS to spend money when and where appropriate (like last off-season when we could have gotten a real #1 center but that’s water under the bridge). It’s about facing the realities here and the reality is that this team is looking at barely scraping over the cap floor. When asked about it at prospect camp, Waddell said he is counting on Bogosian’s full contract potential when he calculates the cap number. (Smoothie DW said Bogy’s salary if he hits all his incentives is $4M.) Those incentives won’t be easy to hit - they can’t be gimmes because the league won’t allow it (it’s the same thing as just guaranteeing a big contract to a rookie - defeats the point of the salary strictures).

So what happens if, god forbid, something happens to Bogy and he gets injured? He for sure doesn’t reach his incentives and we don’t hit the cap floor. Then AS is really screwed because they’ll lose their revenue sharing $$. And if they are really hurting financially, they can’t afford to lose that money. That’s penny-wise and pound-foolish.

BTW all this talk about Kovy is driving me nuts. He has NEVER said he wants to leave the Thrashers. He has indicated it may happen if the direction of the team doesn’t change, but that isn’t even the same thing as wanting out. Kovy has shown from day 1 that he loves this franchise heart and soul. He’s brought more passion to that ice than anyone else who has ever donned our jersey. Even last season, as bad as it was, he was still bringing it every night. That is the complete antithesis of what we went through with Hossa.

This franchise has a lot more wiggle room with Kovy than some people want to give credit for.

By NASCAR Dave

July 24, 2008 1:17 PM | Link to this

MURRAY cleared…

Folks, you are gonna have to deal with the RW’s of:

1) WILLIAMS
2) ARMSTRONG
3) THORBURN
4) SLATER

And the Centers Of:

1) LITTLE
2) CHRISTENSEN
3) REASONER
4) WHITE/PERRIN

And that’s about it. LW’s are trial by committee (PERRIN/KOZLOV/LAVALLEE/STUART/KOVALCHUK/)
With ALL that Money to spend, they went VERY conservative and brought you folks this roster… Are you happy with that???

Personally, I would rather have us lose, lose, and lose some more with the young guys than to do the same thing with overpaid veterans, you know what I mean???

Wow, this is great! We might REALLY have a shot at the TAVARES kid…

By Sara

July 24, 2008 1:30 PM | Link to this

Dave I get you on not wanting to overpay aging vets (especially since this would mark the first off-season it didn’t happen). Normally I would say the exact same thing. The difference is the very real possibility the team might not reach the cap floor. If the owners are constrained now financially (either between legal fees, two payrolls to manage and I guess that there will be penalties for them with the Hawks for going over the cap?? not sure how that CBA works since I could care less about b-ball), but imagine how much worse it will be if they don’t get anything back next season from the League? And at a time when several RFAs will need new contracts and Kovy’s will be around the corner. It’s both a short-term and long-term issue here.

In actuality, as I’ve said before, I’m fine with this roster heading into next season. Do I think it will win us a Cup? Of course not (although I did have a dream the other night that we beat the Wings in the SCF to do just that). But right now I’m ok with what we have to go with while we evaluate the effectiveness of Anderson’s system and the talent level of the younger guys on the roster. See what we have, then figure out what we still need, and find a way to get it.

By Nikita

July 24, 2008 1:32 PM | Link to this

You know, if we were sitting in the same room, about now is when I might go all Valabik on somebody.

Why?

1. For failing to appreciate what some of our players have done for us. Screw you times 20 for failing to appreciate players who showed up, played hard, and kept their chins up throughout the worst season Atlanta has ever had.

2. For doubting Kovy’s dedication to this club. I have not been the most steadfast fan of his on the ice, but even I can’t produce a shred of evidence that he intends to jump ship. Unless, of course, we do not give him a chance to compete at the level he deserves — and if that’s the case then I wish him the best of luck in finding a club that is up to his standards.

3. For failing to give our younger players any credit for growth and improvement. And for disregarding the contributions of our veterans.

4. For your pessimism, period. We’re still over two months from the opening game. We still have the ability to acquire, trade, or recruit from our minor league teams. You and I have no idea what’s going to happen.

By five_hole

July 24, 2008 1:34 PM | Link to this

I hope we don’t pick up someone just to get above the salary floor; that would be really stupid. I do think that someone like Murray would be a short term solution to our problem at RW, and that we get value by signing him (and that happens to raise us over the floor of the cap).

Alan really enjoyed reading that article, and I hope Valabik takes it to heart.

A side note to your article; if anyone remembers Tony Twist of the STL Blues back in the late ’80s/ early ’90s. His daughter played on the same soccer team as my daughter. As nice and as funny a guy as you would ever want to meet. Off the ice. On the ice, he was the premier tough guy in the league. He tore his knee up in a motorcycle accident which forced him out of the league, but for years there were more Twist jerseys in the Arena than Brett Hull jerseys.

By JAmes_kovyboy

July 24, 2008 1:49 PM | Link to this

I have an idea…
According to TSN’s story on Murray being bought out, it says that the Bruins are over the cap…so we could probably pull off a trade to get Kessel?

Or we can get Matthew Lombardi of Calgary, who are WAY over the cap…

that would solve our C issue…

For RW we can get Cheechoo if Murray goes to SJ or we can get Knuble!

So those who are panicking cause we still dont have a C and RW, we still have 7/8 weeks…

I HOPE THAT A-STEALERS-G GETS FED OUT*

By NASCAR Dave

July 24, 2008 2:03 PM | Link to this

The difference is the very real possibility the team might not reach the cap floor.

SARA - There is no need to panic like that… We will reach the Cap Floor, don’t worry about it…

It’s just that there are easier ways of going about it than signing a guy for 1 year with a $4 million salary…

After the WOLVES roster gets filled up, we will be at the Floor. Donnie is leaving himself a tiny bit of wiggle room for any last minute acquisitions (Teams trimming players out to meet their Cap or a last minute trade)…

I just don’t see why all of you are panicking about something like that… It will work out fine, just watch and see…

In actuality, as I’ve said before, I’m fine with this roster heading into next season. Do I think it will win us a Cup? Of course not

This is my point… We will not win ANYTHING this year… This is a “Project” year for these young guys to gain valuable experience…

I am done with Donnie’s “Plans”… I no longer care what happens… Here is what I do know - The kids will get playing time.

I am fine with the kids playing (and losing), in order for them to gain experience and give us a better shot at winning the TAVARES lottery…

I just feel sorry for the people that wasted money on this based on Donnie and the ASG’s “Promises”…

They will learn, soon enough, though…

By Smoothie

July 24, 2008 2:14 PM | Link to this

Sara, where did you read that DW said Bogy could top out at $4 M? Is that even possible under the current CBA? Even with incentives? Seems dubious to me.

I thought the maximum first year salary was $850 K to $1.25 M and the max bonus plan can only be $500 K. Perhaps when the cap went up the rookie year contract guidelines were relaxed greatly.

Alan, if they WERE to sign Murray — and obviously they are not going to — they could always work a trade deadline deal to bring in more salary so they could waive a guy who makes $4 M. I’m not really sure what you’re so worried about.

Even if DWad is really hamstrung with a shoe-string budget, no way even these dumb owners will risk losing revenue-sharing dollars by getting below the cap.

By Sara

July 24, 2008 2:18 PM | Link to this

five-hole from a business perspective it isn’t stupid at all. If the Thrashers are truly in danger of losing revenue sharing, picking up additional salary is worthwhile if the additional salary acquired is less than the amount of revenue sharing income that is salvaged.

IE, if the AS would lose out on $7M in revenue sharing if they fell below the floor, picking up a Murray as an example at basically $4M still gets them a net gain of $3M. Plus they don’t aggravate the other powers that be in the League by daring to go below the cap (not to mention send out even more negative vibes to the rest of the players in the League).

Granted there could be cheaper solutions to the problem. But Murray wouldn’t have cost us a thing except the salary. However, if they have to make a trade later this year to add on salary, we are going to have to give something up to add salary and whatever that something is will likely hurt to give up (no one is going to take our “garbage”). It’ll mean picks/prospects/good young players because Don will have little to no negotiating power at that point (unless someone gets equally desperate but that’s a BIG if). And it’s possible we could still get him, and it’s also possible we might pick someone up from another club that’s over the cap.

Bottomline though is, if AS has even half of a business brain, they will get someone else in here somehow to guarantee they are over the floor without having to rely on Bogosian’s incentives bonuses or anyone else’s for that matter.

By five_hole

July 24, 2008 2:29 PM | Link to this

Sara If the sole purpose was to get over the bottom of the cap, we could have signed Reasoner for $4 million. Or renegotiate Kovalchuk’s contract to align him with Ovechkin. I’m really not worried about getting us above the floor. While the ASG may not be the most astute management group, I am sure that they are in fact trying to maximize their profit margin. I also think that DW is looking for “bargains”. If we get Murray at $2 mil, that’s better than paying $4 mil for him, and it still raises us above the floor.

By Sara

July 24, 2008 2:45 PM | Link to this

five-hole they could have signed Reasoner for more but that’s riskier than taking on someone already signed (as in you aren’t the one inflating salaries and making other GMs mad). They can’t renegotiate Kovy’s contract (why does this keep coming up??) because a contract cannot be extended until the final year of said contract.

But DW may well be trying to get a bargain deal. But let’s face it - what exactly have we seen in the past few years to demonstrate good business sense from any of these yahoos? You have more faith in them than I do. :)

Smoothie it came up in the interview Don did at prospect camp with Anderson. There were several recaps posted around the net and one of them mentioned that someone asked specifically if we were going to be above the cap floor. Don said based on what was already under contract (Williams and Reasoner not included at this point I don’t think), between Kari and Bogosian, we would be above the floor. At that time he said that Bogy could make $4M with all his incentives. I’ll hunt around and see if I can find one of the write-ups that mentions it.

By Alan

July 24, 2008 2:49 PM | Link to this

Smoothie - Listen to Sara. She knows what she’s talking about, and I echo her sentiments exactly.

We have to be above the floor by day one of the season. Not sure why you’re banking on our being above the floor on a “deadline deal” that would take place more than four months after the season started.

By Hip Czech

July 24, 2008 3:01 PM | Link to this

Where does Esposito’s contract fit into all of this?

The cap page at hockeybuzz doesn’t list his contract in either the normal players section nor the minors/prospects section…

By Sara

July 24, 2008 3:05 PM | Link to this

Actually Alan Smoothie has a point. As mentioned (ad nauseum), one of the factors getting us above the floor is Bogy’s bonuses. All of the potential bonuses he could receive count from day one as if they are guaranteed to be paid (if you look at nhlnumbers.com, you will see something call “bonus cushion” in the bottom calculations - that’s where this ties in - Enstrom’s are already listed). However, the moment it becomes clear Bogosian could not achieve one of the bonuses, it comes off the cap figure. So at any time in the season, we could drop below the cap. I’m not sure how long (if any time?) a team has to get back up over the cap, but either way, it makes flirting along the magic line a bit risky.

By Alan

July 24, 2008 3:13 PM | Link to this

However, the moment it becomes clear Bogosian could not achieve one of the bonuses, it comes off the cap figure. So at any time in the season, we could drop below the cap.

That’s true, I suppose. It was my understanding that we had to be above the cap from day one, and bonuses - potential or otherwise - didn’t count until they happened.

By five_hole

July 24, 2008 3:21 PM | Link to this

I didn’t think bonuses could be counted against this year’s cap (at least upfront) because you don’t know what that player’s performance will be. I thought it was counted against next year’s cap and/or retroactively counted at year’s end, in order to assess penalties for exceeding the cap.

By Smoothie

July 24, 2008 3:26 PM | Link to this

Alan, you’re just being difficult for the sake of being difficult. I’m not banking on a deadline deal. I’m banking on DW making a trade during pre-season (perhaps sooner) to get us over the cap. If that happens and Nikulin signs, we’ll be comfortably over the cap.

I was stating that, in the event we were to pick up a player off of waivers for $4 M, it would be wiser to unload him due to underperformance than pay him $2 M more just to stay over the cap later in the year. A GM has a lot of options leading up to the trade deadline and I don’t see staying over the cap an issue. No sense in carrying extra salary if someone isn’t earning it.

And if Sara is correct about Bogy, we will be fine, but I don’t think she is…at least not based on what is written below from the CBA FAQ on NHL.com. You might want to try doing some of your own research rather than nitpick every little thing to make your lack of support less obvious…just makes you look worse if you ask me.

How much can Entry Level players make?

Entry Level players will be subject to a maximum annual salary (plus signing and games played bonuses) of $850,000 for 2005 and 2006 draftees; $875,000 for 2007 and 2008 draftees; $900,000 for 2009 and 2010; and $925,000 for 2011 draftees.

The maximum combined signing bonus will be limited to 10% of the player’s maximum annual compensation in any year.

*Entry Level players may negotiate for performance bonuses up to a maximum of $850,000 in individual “Schedule A” bonuses per year (maximum of $212,500 per bonus).

A player may also be eligible to earn individual “B” bonuses for League-wide excellence, which will, as a general matter, be paid by the League. In addition, a player will be eligible to negotiate with his club “excess” individual “B” bonuses, subject to a maximum aggregate of $2 million in any year.

So I’m not sure how Sara plans on getting to $4 M in total salary for Bogo. If his base is $875K with a signing bonus of 10%, that’s $962,500. With a max performance bonus in a year of $850 K, that would get him to $1,812,500. A long ways away from $4 M.

Unless this section of the CBA was revised along with the upper and lower limits, I wouldn’t expect the Thrashers to even think about paying an 18 y/o $4 M to play hockey (even if he is the next Bobby Orr).

By Sara

July 24, 2008 3:28 PM | Link to this

OK, I found the thing about Bogosian’s incentives from Don - it is on The Falconer’s recap of the Breakfast Don had with some STH/potential STH.

So there’s your $4M number, and Don is also referencing the whole thing counting against the cap. I’m pulling up the CBA though to confirm the rules on bonuses.

By five_hole

July 24, 2008 3:33 PM | Link to this

Sara at the risk of sounding like NASCAR DAVE why would you believe anything DW has to say? As someone else once said, “‘Fool me once, shame on — shame on you. Fool me — you can’t get fooled again”.

By Sara

July 24, 2008 3:36 PM | Link to this

Smoothie LOL I just finished reading the same things and was coming back to ask the same question - where does $4M come from….but follow that Falconer link - it came from the Don’s mouth, not mine.

So maybe ask him??

By Alan

July 24, 2008 3:38 PM | Link to this

I was stating that, in the event we were to pick up a player off of waivers for $4 M, it would be wiser to unload him due to underperformance than pay him $2 M more just to stay over the cap later in the year.

And you’re nuts for believing that, if the penalty for being below the cap is the loss of revenue sharing monies. There’s no actual penalty covered in the CBA, for whatever reason, but I’ve heard everything from a loss of revenue sharing monies to automatic forfeiture of every game in the regular season until the team is above the cap floor.

Take that how you will, but I am most certainly not just being difficult for the sake of being difficult.

By Sara

July 24, 2008 3:44 PM | Link to this

five-hole because for Don to come out and lie about numbers like that (that can obviously be substantiated in some way or another) would not only be pretty ballsy but also out of character for him (some can say what they want about Waddell’s GM abilities but he has never come across as a liar or dishonest…a certain owner on the other hand…).

But this does obviously bear closer scrutiny.

By five_hole

July 24, 2008 4:13 PM | Link to this

Sara - something I’ve always marvelled at; why is it so easy to be able to lie to women until after you marry them? Before marriage, I could have told (some) women that I was a fighter pilot or secret agent and their eyes would go wide. Now, I swear that my wife can measure my pulse/blood pressure from across the room.

I don’t think anyone will hold him accountable for numbers he’s coming up with on the spur of the moment. If it was a prepared statement, that would be different. I read the link you provided, and it seemed like it was off-the-cuff type stuff.

Maybe I’m a cynic, but I believe things when I see them.

By Smoothie

July 24, 2008 4:14 PM | Link to this

From the recap of the GM Mtg by Falconer:

Someone asked about being below the salary floor. DW “We’re at the floor—well, we will be once you figure Lehtonen’s contract. We’re at $36-37 million now and Bogosian’s incentive clauses will add up to nearly $4 million, we’ll probably be in the mid-$40 [million] range.”

Something doesn’t make sense because Don wasn’t even right about being at $36-37 M unless he was counting Lehtonen’s $3 M!! We hadn’t even signed Williams nor Reasoner (total of $3.2 M) so I don’t know where he was coming up with $36-37 M! By my calculations, they were at $32.4 right before Lehtonen was re-signed.

Re-upping Lehts, signing Wms and inking Marty would have put us at $38.58 before Nikulin or Bogo is factored in. But 2 entry-level contracts for those 2 would leave us $200 K shy of the floor.

And Alan, I don’t know why you’re arguing a point I never made. I never said the Thrashers would be below the cap for any length of time. I feel pretty confident that a Glen Murray would get re-claimed off of re-entry waivers so we would still be above the cap by nearly $2 M if such were to happen.

Signing Murray, hypothetically of course, would put us at $43.2 M, and that’s the worse case scenario of Valabik and Bogo and no Nikulin. Cutting him and having him re-claimed would keep us above the cap. If he clears waivers, then we buy him out like Zhitnik and we’re still on the hook for roughly $1.4 putting us slightly below the cap.

I feel pretty certain that the NHL allows teams time to get back above the cap as long as the pro-rated amounts keep their avg salary over $40.7 M. But someone would have to check the CBA to be sure…I just don’t see the guidelines being that strict though because you never hear of teams getting fined or penalized wins for non-compliance.

Why don’t you read the entire CBA and get back to us on that??

By kracker

July 24, 2008 4:14 PM | Link to this

Thrashers Name Assistant Coaches for ‘08-09

Cunneyworth and Nelson! Good deal, these guys can develop young talent.

By Smoothie

July 24, 2008 4:21 PM | Link to this

Cunneyworth!!! Nice job DWad!

Indeed he is very good at cultivating and teaching young talent…let’s just hope our young talent really does have talent and on top of that can be coached up to play even better.

Thanks for the news Kracker a$$ kracker!!

By Toby

July 24, 2008 4:24 PM | Link to this

Cunneyworth did an awesome job for Buffalo. I’m real happy about this deal. More ex-Whalers coaching…yes!

By Fred Sanford

July 24, 2008 4:34 PM | Link to this

Dis is tha big one honey, I’m comin ta join ya, DW done sumthin rite.

By Terrence Moore

July 24, 2008 5:04 PM | Link to this

But there’s still no blacks on the team, what can they do about that?

By Alan

July 24, 2008 5:06 PM | Link to this

I never said the Thrashers would be below the cap for any length of time.

No, you said we were already above the cap, to which I responded “barely.” Your perception of my arguments is vastly incorrect.

Why don’t you read the entire CBA and get back to us on that?

I don’t have the time, care, or inclination to learn how to read legalese. Norwegian is far more interesting. Jeg elsker det Thrashers.

Moving right along…

Great moves on the coaching acquisitions! I believe Cunneyworth and Nelson will be quite beneficial when it comes to our lineup this season.

By Corey

July 24, 2008 5:43 PM | Link to this

there are still no “blacks” on the team? What kind of question is that?

I think we just got a pretty good coaching staff upgrade… (not so hard to upgrade I guess seeing as we didn’t have a coach for a season - 6 games) why are you making a blanket statement of why are there no “blacks”? Maybe you could ask, why didn’t they higher this black coach who was better…

By Lanny McDonald

July 24, 2008 6:03 PM | Link to this

Whew! I’m glad we stayed away from Murray.

No, you said we were already above the cap, to which I responded “barely.” Your perception of my arguments is vastly incorrect.

Alan - Why are you guys arguing about this? We have until late September/early October to set our roster. That is when it matters where we stand with the Salary Cap. Transactions will still be made, players will be cut/waived, RFA’s may get extensions, etc. There is a lot of stuff that could happen before that time comes.

Just be patient. For about 2 months.

I’d much rather let the Machacek kid earn a spot at RW. Murray’s glory days are over, it appears. I don’t really see San Jose signing him, either.

Any new news on Ilya II?

By Brendan

July 24, 2008 6:04 PM | Link to this

I really like this Cunneyworth acquisition. Don Waddell, I think, got something right again. What? It happens. I know how insane this is going to sound, but I have confidence in his ability to get this team over the floor of the salary cap. I wouldn’t even waste another second worrying about that one. I’m more worried about what DW will offer back to a team that is over the cap, to take in their “castoff” player. Just so this is “out there,” if Waddell trades Pavelec, I’m personally organizing the lynch mob. That’s our “1-2 punch,” once Hedberg retires. And given our financial situation, it shouldn’t be all that hard to keep both Lehtonen and Pavelec under contract, in the future. Even if Kovy somehow stays beyond 2010, at whatever the league MAX salary may be. Well, lest the cap take a sudden “nose dive.” (It won’t.)

I stand by my projected budget of $44.5 million for 2008-09. To recap, Alan picked $48.6 million, Bob picked $44.0 million, J(Z) picked $38.5 million, with a $2 million fine by the league, and I have $44.5 million. At some point, I suppose I should close the voting on this topic. Hmmn, how about Sept. 1st? Sound good? Fair enough?

So, if you want to get your entry in, post it here and I’ll keep a log. Winner gets … uhh … left over “thunder sticks” from Thrashers games! And the undying admiration of all the bloggers.

By the way, Craig Custance emailed me to say that Hossa has a NMC in his deal with Detroit. I still haven’t seen that anywhere else, however. Does anyone know, with absolute certainty?

By Smoothie

July 24, 2008 6:08 PM | Link to this

Pretty weak Alan, pretty weak. I never said that we were already above the cap. In fact, I said that we will likely be above the cap once you factor in Bogy’s and Boris’ salary (assuming they both make the team). However, at the time, I did not realize Bogy (or Nikulin) could only make $963 K this year. Thus my corrected statements about being under the cap by $200 K in the worse case scenario.

Secondly, how would you know what I’m perceiving when it comes to your arguments when you don’t really make any? For the most part on this thread, I’ve been supporting my assertions with facts and numbers while you’re only real argument has been that we should pay someone $4 M to avoid loss of revenue sharing. And I rebutted that by writing it would be foolish to do that when you could potentially pay the same player $2 M to avoid said penalty.

I did state this:

HOWEVER, if the ASG really is in more dire financial straits, then they will likely stay below what they spent last year ($43.65 M) and only make sure they get over the league min by signing Bogosian to an incentive-laden contract…Coupled with Valabik’s salary, an entry-level deal with bonuses should get the ASG just to or over the floor.

And then I corrected my math once I found the CBA to figure out what we can actually pay Bogy. As it turns out, we’d come up short by $200 K. So yeah, we’d be below the cap thus forcing DWad to make another move, which I fully expect.

Now, read real slow:

IF, and he prolly won’t, DWad were to sign Murray, then our cap number would go from just below the floor to about $4 M above it. Then, should he play below expectations, he could be waived and re-claimed. Most likely, another team would pick him up for $2.075 M and we’d be on the hook for the other half, THUS KEEPING US ABOVE THE CAP!!

Worse case scenario with respect to the whole mythical Murray supposition is that we’d buy him out, pay him $1.4 M and re-sign someone like Larsen (I reckon he’d get cut if we signed Murray) or promote a player from CHI to get us back over the cap, which would only take $250 K in pro-rated salary for the last 1/3 of the year.

By Alan

July 24, 2008 6:33 PM | Link to this

Smoothie - “Weak” or not, I don’t care. This isn’t some sort of game and it isn’t some sort of contest.

Here’s what you said, in case you forgot:

Assuming you read my entire post, you realize that *we’ll be above the floor without Murray*

As for the rest of that? I’m not going to read it. I caught a glimpse of a few sentences and it put me off of the entire thing. I would suggest you re-write it so you’re not insulting the intelligence of people. Perhaps I’ll even arrange to send you a copy of “How to Win Friends and Influence People” to assist in that.

By Lanny McDonald

July 24, 2008 6:52 PM | Link to this

Perhaps I’ll even arrange to send you a copy of “How to Win Friends and Influence People” to assist in that.

Alan, you can be pretty funny when you get mad. Maybe you should send a copy to each of our 8 owners?

By Smoothie

July 24, 2008 6:52 PM | Link to this

Alan, are you Alan Colmes?? Because you sure do argue like him…a whiny liberal who thinks he knows it all! How’s that for “off-putting”? Instead of making an argument with something factual to support it, you just keep nit-picking the same damn thing out of context.

I made that statement about being above the floor before I verified what our rookies can earn this year (honest mistake). Plus, I had to check if the floor was $40 M even or not. I clarified where needed and admitted where I was wrong. You might want to do the same because your statement about keeping Murray just for “extra assurance” is just plain absurd.

Lastly, I’m not going to re-write it as it was written only to insult you. Most anyone could see it was directed at you the way I wrote it. What do I care about winning friends on a freakin’ hockey blog?! I’m here to make cogent points and help glean information about the Thrashers when possible in the hopes of helping to keep fans informed. As for your suggestion, I could give a flip!

By Lanny McDonald

July 24, 2008 7:01 PM | Link to this

lol, you guys are funny. You are arguing about something stupid that will never happen. Let me ask both of you this - Has Waddell EVER not reached the Cap Floor? You have to remember, while he doesn’t have very many “skills” as a GM, this is something even he cannot foul up.

Give it a rest please, it’s a waste of bandwidth to argue about this nonsense that Sara started!

By Alan

July 24, 2008 7:11 PM | Link to this

Maybe you should send a copy to each of our 8 owners?

It’s a deal. I wonder if I can get them gift-wrapped for the lot of them, too?

By Alan

July 24, 2008 7:19 PM | Link to this

it’s a waste of bandwidth to argue

Indeed, and arguing isn’t why I’m here.

Sometimes, it takes a third party to remind us of that. Thank you.

By Jameson

July 24, 2008 7:21 PM | Link to this

“I wish all of you the best of luck in the future and look forward to seeing both the Hawks and Thrashers in the playoffs next season.” - This DePaoli guy shouldn’t sweat his losing his job with ASG, he should become a comedian.

By Tony C.

July 24, 2008 7:59 PM | Link to this

Yeah getting Cunneyworth was a great move. I wonder how much input The Walrus had in this sort of thing? From the quotes I’ve seen, Anderson seems to be pretty deferrential in regards to DW and his roles in the hire/fire process.

By ranallo10 (in AT)

July 25, 2008 4:08 AM | Link to this

A few things:

First things first…check out this story

Did anyone else think “Bettman, you silly prankster!” when they read this? Stockholm, season opener, Bettman’s problem with vertical dominance…it all adds up!

Regarding Any Roster Moves — As it stands there are 20 players (13 forwards, 5 defenders, 2 goalies) signed to NHL contracts on the Thrashers roster. According to nhlnumbers, the cap hit is at $37.719M (bonus cushion at $39.055M).

The most players allowed on an active NHL roster (ie not injured) is 23.

To my knowledge there has been no announcement of Bogosian’s contract, so he is not included in those 5 defenders. Valabik, Bogosian and Nikulin are the potential #6 defender on this roster, with one likely being given some time at the beginning of the season as a #7 defender. Tag on those two assumed players, the roster sits at 22 players (one offensive and one defensive scratch).

So, that leaves room for 1 or 2 players (if they carry only 6 defenders), as it stands today.

To my knowledge the bonuses work against the salary as Sara explained…all POTENTIAL bonuses are counted so that a team cannot be a certain percentage over the salary cap at the beginning of the season. I’m sure there’s legal wiggle room based on age, injuries, etc, but that’s just my understanding.

So, my point of all of this is that the Thrashers only have room for one player once defenders are assigned to the roster, and the max impact of each defensive player (without bonuses) would put this team at $39.4523M (Bogosian or Nikulin with a max rookie contract hit of $875k).

Seems to me that the salary cap is a non-issue since many of those rookie bonuses are based on games played and performance levels. If Enstrom made $200k in bonuses last season, I can expect Bogosian to do the same. Little made $150k in bonuses, so I assume these players (on rookie contracts with bonuses) can nit-pick this team up another $548k to reach the floor minimum.

Or, a player can be acquired in the mean time, which would make this roster precariously full.

I don’t think Murray is a smart choice, I’d rather see Machacek tough out a season. If any moves are made I expect them on the trade front (even for an RFA), and involving one of our defenders and/or one of our excess centers (as well as a prospect included). Looking at players with value that could yield a slight return, Exelby and Perrin/White make the most sense to me.

Brendan — If Pavelec is moved I will be right behind you. I like Lehtonen, but trading away quality goalie depth for little in return is rather unforgivable. Both Lehtonen and Pavelec will be needed for any future successes this team might have…I don’t consider it wise to move either (unless the return nets a Kopitar quality player, which I doubt it would).

By Hockey Biltong

July 25, 2008 12:38 PM | Link to this

I predict the budget will be $48mil.I also predict the Trash will perform above expectations.I feel that they will finish just above .500 next April. So there.

By Brendan

July 25, 2008 2:10 PM | Link to this

Duly noted, Hockey Biltong.

Ranallo, getting a Kopitar-quality player would be acceptable. But, like you said, it’s highly unlikely. I hope we keep Pavelec at least until he turns 27.