AJC > Sports Thrashers > Blog > Archives > 2008 > May > 04 > Entry
DEL.ICIO.USCongrats Hawks & Checking In On Old Friends
The Atlanta Journal-Constitution
THIS Is Why Making The Playoffs Is GOOD
The Atlanta Hawks were a decade removed from post-season. A team that finished the regular season eight games below .500. A team that was only in the playoffs because the Eastern Conference of the NBA was so terrible, so rank, so pathetic that three teams qualified for the championship tournament lacking a winning record. And this bunch was going up against the Boston Celtics…owners of the league’s best record.
A #8 seed vs. the #1 seed…37-45 vs. 66-16…a .451 winning percentage vs. .805… David vs. Goliath… Rocky vs. Apollo…Hawks vs. Celtics Certainly this was a mismatch for the ages.
But a funny thing happened on the way to the Celtic’s coronation. The Hawks players decided that they really didn’t care about the records, the odd or the predictions of their demise. The figured, what the hell…we’re here, what say we play to win? Let’s “shock the world”.
And so, our Philips Arena brethren did what no one thought they would…actually competed and took the Celtics to a game seven. Oh sure, game seven was ugly…butt ugly… for the Hawks. But even with that, they reminded everyone that when you’re in the playoffs, you have a chance…and to have a chance, you have to be in the playoffs.
Now, what in the name of Joseph Henri Maurice “Rocket” Richard does any of this have to do with the Thrashers…the team you come here to read and blog about? Why, I’m glad you asked!
First, to put this in it’s proper context, we need to find the NHL equivalent of the Hawks/Celtics match up. That would be taking the best team in the league, Detroit, and matching it against the team that finished with roughly the same winning percentage as the Hawks. The closest would be .463 and that team was…the Atlanta Thrashers. So, think of what would happen if the Thrashers were pitted against the Red Wings, (yes I know that they are in different conferences), and the Thrashers played them in similar fashion.
Now, remember as the past season began to unravel in Blueland and there were many who express the belief that it was better for the team to NOT make the playoffs, even though it was still in our grasps at the time. It was a hopeless venture anyway, so why even bother with the whole silly notion of actually attending the competition to hoist Lord Stanley’s Cup. Since we had no chance of actually winning it, some said, then it’s just better we don’t even qualify for the playoffs in the first place and instead position ourselves for a high draft pick.
To that I say, balder-dash…horse pucky…phooey…and B.S., (baloney squared).
The Hawks just exemplified why it is so important to make the playoffs, even if your team has no chance of succeeding…or that’s what everyone ELSE is saying about you.
So I ask you, what do you think is more valuable to that team right now… the hope of what could become of a prospect taken high in the first round…or the experience and confidence that Josh Childress, Zaza Pachulia, Josh Smith and the rest of the team have gained over the past couple of weeks? Personally, I would argue the ladder. And I would argue the same would be true had the Thrashers done the same.
Draft picks, no matter how highly touted they might be, are a crapshoot for the most part. High picks can be busts and those chosen later can prove to be MVPs. But what the Hawks have obtained in these playoffs is priceless and will only prove to benefit them down the road…even in light of the game seven blowout.
One last thing…four years ago, Mike Woodson took then-rookies Josh Smith and Josh Childress to Detroit to experience what playoff atmosphere was all about and to try and give them a hunger for it. Don Waddell might want to think about such a field trip for Tobias Enstrom, Bryan Little and some other young Thrashers.
So, Atlanta Hawks and Hawks fans…The Ice Man congratulateth you for what you have accomplished over the past couple of weeks. Even though you fell short, the experience gained will certainly benefit the players next season. And hey, right now you can say that you are 3-0… undefeated… in Philips Arena during the playoffs. Job well done!
Eastern Finals Choc-Full-O-Old Friends
And there it was…big as day. Marian Hossa slamming home the game winning, series clinching goal 7 minutes and 10 seconds into overtime. Making it even more pleasurable to watch was the fact that Pascal Dupuis gained an assist along with Sidney Crosby. It was Hossa’s second goal of the game and his fifth of the post-season to go along with five helpers.
Making this even sweeter for Atlanta Thrashers fans is the knowledge that somewhere in the same state of Pennsylvania was one Braydon Coburn watching the very same game. He and the rest of his Philadelphia Flyers teammates were looking on as their position in the Eastern Conference Finals had already been secured.
So, we have the pleasure of watching Coburn and the Flyers take on Hossa, Dupuis and the Penguins for the right to play in the Stanley Cup Finals.
Joy. Rapture.
Braydon Coburn…he’s the player TV play-by-play announcers and analyst love to remind us, as well as millions of viewers, was obtained from the Thrashers for …snicker … Alexei Zhitnik. Coburn has, in 12 games during the playoffs, notched 5 assists…the exact same amount Zhitnik had in 65 regular season games and has looked like a dominate force on the Flyers blueline doing so. Zhitnik is…still on our payroll for $3.5 million.
Marian Hossa…he’s the player who forced Don Waddell’s hand to trade him because there was no way he was going to resign with the club he general managed. See, Hossa insists he wanted to play for a team that was…well, moving in the right direction.
Pascal Dupuis…he’s the man who has to feel like the luckiest player in the NHL. He woke up on February 26th in a Montreal hotel room a member of a team that was in the throws of what would ultimately become a death-spiral toward the conference basement…but before he went back to sleep was winging his way with Hossa to Pittsburgh.
Basically, Hossa left for Armstrong and Christensen, (not too bad), and Dupuis was the sweetener that landed us a Junior League center and future draft pick… a player and a pick we can only hope will develop into quality NHL players some day down the road. Pascal gets a legitimate chance to skate the cup around Mellon Arena next month.
Don’t get me wrong…I actually enjoy watching these players do well on the big stage. However, it does kind of make me wonder…what player(s) currently on the Thrashers roster will Don Waddell gift wrap and send off next season for us to watch play in May and June?
For What It’s Worth
Some have speculated that Hawks GM Billy Knight could still be on the hot seat with coach Mike Woodson regardless of the 3 wins in the playoffs. If, indeed, he were to be relieved of his duties that would mean that of the four general managers in Atlanta one year ago, the only one remaining in that capacity would be…Don Waddell.
I refer you back to the last paragraph in the preceding segment of this blog.
Comments
Commenting is now closed for this entry.
By HairyHeckler
May 4, 2008 10:49 PM | Link to this
sigh
By Hockeyfan
May 4, 2008 10:53 PM | Link to this
First
By ThrasherNY
May 4, 2008 11:09 PM | Link to this
CC I tastefully disagree. Yes the Hawks had a chance of winning against the Celtics. But I ask what chance did they then have of repeating the same underdog story twice to tackle the eastern conference and then again for the title? I would argue none. The best evidence we have is the regular season where they lost more than half of there games. All the sudden they were going to play better ball against the top teams in the league??? Sorry wasnt going to happen.
I dont want that for my Thrashers! We as fans deserve to have a team that truly competes for the Cup not one that settles for the chance at an underdog first round win. I know there are other fans who believe we deserve more as I do. I also know that Hossa believed that we deserved more. Superstars in the NHL dont want to just make it to the playoffs and hope for miracles. Does anyone doubt that Ilya will also ascert his interest in the Cup and leave in due time?
By 2 Blogs late and a $ short
May 4, 2008 11:12 PM | Link to this
Hey, didn’t Petr Forsberg miss some of the playoffs 6-7 years ago with a ruptured spleen?
By 12345
May 4, 2008 11:45 PM | Link to this
Waddell = Failure of Thrashers Franchise in near future.
Owners = Will keep team DOOMED until they sell to an OWNER who wants to and knows how to WIN.
Waddell & asg do NOT know how to win and I believe do not really want to win.
So we are now somewhat of a NHL farm team within the NHL, just providing star players to teams that want to win… Because the Thrashers under Waddell and his how many years plan and which direction are we moving forward…. WHOOOOOOA look out that 1000 foot cliff is ahead of us and leads to the depths of the NHL… Rock bottom folks, that is the Don Waddell record, one failure after another and one F up after another.
When will we ever get Waddell out of here ? Could not happen any too soon !
By Sara
May 4, 2008 11:56 PM | Link to this
Watching Hossa and Dupper today just made me sick to my stomach. I mean, good for them, really, but DAMN!!
Speaking of damn - Michalek just got his world rocked BIG TIME. Yowch! Hope Dallas can get this finished off in OT - I’m ready for the next round.
And lastly…..ta-da!! My reasearch project is complete. Well, at least phase one. For your reading delight I give you drafting by team demographics as well as an overall view of how each team was built this season. As one can tell by looking, the Thrashers fared not so good in the drafting department.
I’m going to try to do some other things with my data. I want to try to quantify the impacts of the drafted players - whether we are talking lots of top-notch players or 3rd and 4th liners. That’s hard to do though without ending up with a massive spreadsheet issue. I’ll have to keep pondering that. And I still want to research FA signings in the non-traditional markets. I plan to look at the SE division teams, as well as Nashville and Phoenix. If you think another team deserves to be considered among that group, please let me know.
Anyway, back to OT in Dallas.
By ranallo10
May 5, 2008 12:31 AM | Link to this
ThrasherNY — I agree with your feeling regarding what fans want of this team, I just don’t feel this ownership wants the same thing. I say this often, but I don’t think that anything great will come of this team unless the ASG changes their current business model.
As for Kovalchuk…I honestly feel that Kovalchuk wants to pursue The Cup in Atlanta more so than in any other city. I think he has a respect for this team due to Atlanta being where he was given his chance in the NHL, and thus would be willing to continue here if things progress towards Atlanta becoming a competitive team. I think that if there is no panic, and Atlanta plays the youth and develops a strong core of young players, complimented by some key free agents, I think Kovalchuk will stay in Atlanta.
However, if Atlanta doesn’t show that improvement or the potential to become that competitive team, I wouldn’t be surprised to see Kovalchuk bolt to a city like New York.
By ranallo10
May 5, 2008 12:40 AM | Link to this
Sara — Good stuff. Somehow I’m not surprised that the defending Stanley Cup champions are last on the list of teams comprised of their own draft picks. I’d love to see this sort of analysis based on GMs from the past 4 seasons.
By Sara
May 5, 2008 2:37 AM | Link to this
Ranallo ask and ye shall receive. Now, that hasn’t been updated with the end-of-the-year stats, but most teams didn’t fluctuate that much over the course of the season. I’ll eventually get around to updating it.
What an AMAZING game in Dallas tonight. I feel so bad for the Sharks - any team really - to battle that long and lose. Unreal. But, such is life, now on to the finals!!
By Tony C.
May 5, 2008 5:35 AM | Link to this
Sara-
Even though you’re a deadwings fan, you’re alright with me! Nice work.
By Bob
May 5, 2008 8:44 AM | Link to this
Rawhide, I agree that in hockey if you can get in the dance, you’ve got a shot. A hot goalie can do wonders for your chances, and when a club gets on a roll, look out.
But the Hawks comparison is a bad one, I think. The NBA is fixed. The Celtics beat the Hawks by what, 25 pts late in the year and the Celtics only played their reserves in that game? How many games did the Celtics lose all year, 15 or something with a .800 winning %? And they “lose” 3 in one series to the Hawks? Yeah right.
The Hawks “win” Friday night only to turn around and get absolutely annihilated 36 hours later and get blown out by 40 in the game that mattered? They threw the Hawks a bone (a much needed one), but there was never any chance of the Celtics losing to the Hawks.
By Rawhide
May 5, 2008 9:14 AM | Link to this
The door to the blog discussion room slowly creaks open….Rawhide enters, unshaven, hair a mess, robe thrown over him with tie-belt dragging along the floor…eyes red and barely open….he shuffles his way to the coffee pot, slippers sliding across the tile floor… pours a cup…downs a swallow of the the morning nectar.
siiippp
UGH, pthhhh…uck!! Gawd, who made this swill…never mind, pour me some more…TRIXIE! Where is my cyber-sports page??
Slowly he makes his way to a table…sits down…looks at the amassed faces staring at him in shock and disgust due to his appearance
What? What you lookin’ at?
siiippp - Yuck….
So…who else watched ALL of that Sharks - Stars game last night?
By Hockeyfan
May 5, 2008 9:25 AM | Link to this
I could make it halfway into 3rd OT… What a game
By Sara
May 5, 2008 9:39 AM | Link to this
Rawhide I was with ya til the very end. Couldn’t make myself walk away from that and I imagine I looked about like you this morning…well except for that unshaven thing and all. ;) Whadda game though eh?
Tony C. we wings fans aren’t all like PNS. Instead of talking about how much better the Wings are than the Thrashers and HAHAHA, I’m more of a mold of the Wings are a lot better than the Thrashers and what’s it gonna take to get the Thrashers up to that same level. And make no mistake about which team is my favorite - I don’t invest nearly as much time in the Wings. Although I do follow them closely. They also aren’t the only team worth emulating necessarily but they are hands down the most successful franchise overall over the past 10-12 years. I’d be the happiest hockey fan in the world if the Wings could keep dominating the West and the Thrashers could start dominating the East….although I really would need a lot of drugs to survive that SCF (although the first one would have to go to the Thrashers…maybe they could just alternate winning the Cup each year…yeah that’s the ticket. ;) ).
By R. Stroz
May 5, 2008 10:07 AM | Link to this
The major difference between the Hawks and Thrashers is the team age relative to the other teams in each respective league.
The Hawks have the youngest team in the NBA.
The Thrashers had the second oldest team in the NHL.
By Bob
May 5, 2008 11:03 AM | Link to this
You watched ALL of the game, Rawhide? Youdaman
By Tom
May 5, 2008 11:18 AM | Link to this
I made it to through the 2nd OT.
I also agree with Hairy in the first comment regarding our team.
Sigh…
By Alan
May 5, 2008 11:24 AM | Link to this
I watched through 3OT and decided to sleep. I would turn the game on in the morning in the event that my west coast friend had not informed me that anyone scored.
Hockey is life, but when it’s 2am and you have to be up at 7am, sleep is just a little more important.
By GaVaHokie
May 5, 2008 12:22 PM | Link to this
Not to start the same old argument, but let me get this straight… last year on the blogs, Waddell is an “idiot” for drafting Coburn… but now, this year, he’s an “idiot” for trading him.
By Rawhide
May 5, 2008 12:28 PM | Link to this
Bob - Yup…I watched it all…now I’m living on Starbucks.
Sara - Here’s a cup-joe for you, then…and great work again with your team drafting report. I’m gonna have to put you on the payroll.
ThrasherNY - (And I’m assuming you meant to respond to me, not Craig)….I hear what you’re sayin’… But I just think that the experience gained in the playoffs helps build for the next time.
Hokie - last year on the blogs, Waddell is an “idiot” for drafting Coburn… but now, this year, he’s an “idiot” for trading him. - Waddell being called an “idiot” for drafting Coburn last year is a new one on me. Not saying that someone out there didn’t say that, but I don’t remember it.
However, the deal that sent Coburn to the Flyers in return for Zhitnik looks like one of the all-time bone-headed moves…wouldn’t you agree?
By NASCAR Dave
May 5, 2008 12:59 PM | Link to this
However, the deal that sent Coburn to the Flyers in return for Zhitnik looks like one of the all-time bone-headed moves…wouldn’t you agree?
YEP. YOU DA’ MAN, RH. My lady made me watch it all. I’m tired…
By Alan
May 5, 2008 1:39 PM | Link to this
So, let’s flash away from the Hawks love-in (Congrats) for a bit. What do you all think about this: Peter DeBoer for Thrashers head coach. You all might be thinking: Peter who? He’s currently the head coach and general manager of the OHL Kitchener Rangers. He’s also younger than Mark Recchi.
Here’s an article about him, including an apparent logical explanation as to why Waddell remained behind the bench throughout this season.
By Rawhide
May 5, 2008 2:21 PM | Link to this
Alan - great article. Thanks for posting it. A “logical” explanation to why DW remained behind the bench, eh? It’s as good of one as I’ve heard to date.
I’ll place this article on the table as well. It is from last October, just days after Hartley was released. It basically proves that John Anderson not only wanted a shot at the Atlanta job…but the Wolves owner and GM gave Waddell their blessing to talk to him.
The question for me is…if Waddell is going to bring in a new coach with no prvious NHL experience, then why DeBoer? Wouldn’t Anderson be the perfect choice???? After all, he knows all our young players.
scratching head
By Bob
May 5, 2008 2:34 PM | Link to this
But the Thrashers are said to be looking to hire on the cheap. Sources say McCrimmon won’t work for $400,000 or less
What about this quote from the article Alan linked? Isn’t that just par fot the course “hiring on the cheap?” Why pull a guy from juniors directly to the NHL? That reeks of doing things on the cheap. No matter how successful this guy was in juniors, you can’t expect him to jump right into the NHL as his first pro gig, can you?
Is money the whole reason they didn’t replace Hartley? Don’t they have to pay Hartley for the remainder of this coming season as well? And now the word is they gave Waddell a 2 year extension and is that the reason he wasn’t fired? So they didn’t have to pay 2 GMs?
I feel better every day after my decision not to further subsidize this incompetence.
By Alan
May 5, 2008 2:42 PM | Link to this
I remember reading that article, Rawhide, and it left me scratching my head as well. Why not Anderson, eh? Maybe with all the bad things people in Atlanta seem to hear about the development of our young guys in Chicago, bringing in Anderson would look like adding insult to injury from the fans perspective? I know quite a few people around where I work feel like Chicago isn’t the best place for our prospects to develop.
By GaVaHokie
May 5, 2008 2:49 PM | Link to this
Rawhide, on Coburn… the argument on the blogs last year (wish they were archived) was generally the Coburn/Phaneuf argument… “we coulda had Phaneuf”. Just saying there’s a lot of crying over a guy everyone wished was “Phaneuf”.
When Coburn kept failing to stick with the team, several thought he should be traded for a much needed Center.
I’d say a small handful of people thought he wasn’t getting a fair shake under Hartley, but I would certainly say it’s “revisionist history” for people to say the majority supported him.
How much could anyone expect in return for a young defenseman that was obviously not geling with the team and was beginning to lean towards the “draft bust” column?
And yes, when you need an extra “umph” to get into the playoffs, you trade that “draft bust” for the most consistent defenseman you can find that’s not named Pronger or Niedermayer.
Again, if Zhitnik had stuck to his 29 point average this year, this would be a non-argument.
By Rawhide
May 5, 2008 3:10 PM | Link to this
Hokie - Again, if Zhitnik had stuck to his 29 point average this year, this would be a non-argument. Yeah, and if “Ifs” and “Buts” were candy and nuts we would all have a Merry Christmas, eh?
I can go back into all blogs written under the “Ice man” name….but, I take your word for it it that what you say about those comments are true.
However, I also remember when that trade went down many, MANY people bemoaned it…sure Zhit played great and was a big part in helping us to our first ever playoff spot. But the proof is in the pudding here…those who said then that it was a bad trade are only being proven correct. The future was sacrificed for the short term and we are suffering for it now.
Personally, this is not the reason I thing DW should no longer be GM…just a part of the whole. I cannot look for an example anywhere in pro sports where a GM had been in charge of a team…in any sport… for a decade in which ZERO playoff wins could be attributed and he STILL had his job with that team.
We are really no closer to being a contender for the cup then when it all began. This is due to the cumulative dealings and decisions DW’s made. Not just one or two…but the collective whole.
10 years is enough to have made a difference and he hasn’t. That’s the bottom line for me. The rest is just yadda-yadda-yadda…
I put last year squarely on D-Dub. Harsh? Maybe…but where there is responsibility…there is also accountability.
By Alan
May 5, 2008 3:13 PM | Link to this
Bob - To be fair, I really don’t want McCrimmon involved with the Thrashers anyway. I would take this guy from the OHL anyday over McCrimmon.
By GaVaHokie
May 5, 2008 3:20 PM | Link to this
Interesting stuff on DeBoer, looking at his bio on Wikipedia. Namely some of the most recent prospects he’s developed… Derek Roy, Stephen Weiss, Mike Richards, Justin Williams… let’s compare that to John Anderson’s developement list? Brett Sterling, Garnett Exelby, crickets
I can understand the favortism to Anderson, but keep an open mind folks… we’re talking about keeping Kovalchuk happy and convincing him to stay here the next ten years. This decision for the next coach HAS to be right.
By Rawhide
May 5, 2008 3:31 PM | Link to this
we’re talking about keeping Kovalchuk happy and convincing him to stay here the next ten years. This decision for the next coach HAS to be right. - And that, my friend Hokie, is something you, I and everyone else around here I’m sure can agree on 100%!
By GaVaHokie
May 5, 2008 3:36 PM | Link to this
Rawhide… I hear ya loud and clear, but I put it solely on the veterans. I’m even throwing my favorite player (Kozlov) under the bus. A pathetic performance from guys who are supposed to be professional hard working players.
I didn’t consider Zhitnik a quick fix… I thought we were getting a consistent defenseman under contract for two more years. Believe me, I HATED Zhitnik before he came here.
I was standing at the Thrashers post game radio show when it was announced, and the general sentiment I can remember is “Atlanta was getting the veteran presence on defense it needed”.
There’s a lot to the yada-yada… having a star player get in a car crash, go through a very public ordeal, request to leave town, and then talk bad about the city you left… that’s kind of hard to recover from immediately.
I can only imagine how far along this team would be with Heatley and Kovalchuk intact… yada yada. :)
By GaVaHokie
May 5, 2008 3:46 PM | Link to this
And that, my friend Hokie, is something you, I and everyone else around here I’m sure can agree on 100%!
Perhaps if Anderson had spent just a little more time developing some super-star players for Atlanta instead of trying to win Calder Cups with Krog, Haydar, Kiwi and Martins; he might be the coach already… just saying.
Direct message…”What have you done for me lately?”
If you want the safe pick, you go with Ron Wilson or Pat Quinn, not John Anderson. But maybe if you dig a little deeper, you might come out with a real diamond in the rough… I say keep looking.
By Rawhide
May 5, 2008 3:51 PM | Link to this
There?s a lot to the yada-yada? having a star player get in a car crash, go through a very public ordeal, request to leave town, and then talk bad about the city you left? that?s kind of hard to recover from immediately. - That was 5 years ago….long enough to formulate a new, dare I say, 5 year plan.
The Heatley crash was, no doubt, a serious set-back. But DW has had more than enough time ro recover from that. Sure, if Ilya and the heater were still intact things might be different. But good GM would have already gotten the team beyond it, IMHO.
A GM has to deal with these things. There are many aspects of the Heatley drama that Waddell can be praised for.
But that pesky bottom line just keeps getting in the way here…and that bottom line is ZERO playoff wins to show in 10 years of service, (Next month marks the 10th anniversary of him being named GM of the newly founded Thrashers).
120 months
10 years
9 drafts
8 seasons
6 loosing seasons
2 winning seasons
1 playoff trip
0 playoff wins
Bottom line…failure.
It is what it is.
By Bob
May 5, 2008 3:53 PM | Link to this
Bob - To be fair, I really don’t want McCrimmon involved with the Thrashers anyway. I would take this guy from the OHL anyday over McCrimmon
Oh, I know. McCrimmon isn’t the guy for the job, he was the de facto coach this year anyway, and methinks he failed if that was an audition.
I only put his name in there as context, the big point that I got out of that quote was the “cheap” part of wanting a coach under $400k. There was a rumor that Waddell offered McCrimmon the reins midyear and McCrimmon said no and we were all guessing why he’d do that. Mabye now we know, they didn’t want to pay him enough.
The whole deal is a budget. Brendan picked up on this long ago, that the Spirit is running this club like a business and by the balance sheet, not by win-loss record.
By Alan
May 5, 2008 4:02 PM | Link to this
Bob - Honestly, the more I think about DeBoer, the better I feel about him being the new Thrashers coach. Even if it is just an “on the cheap” move (at first), he would undoubtedly have an immediate impact on this team.
By GaVaHokie
May 5, 2008 4:26 PM | Link to this
Rawhide… I hear ya, I’m not close-minded to change. And Waddell will be shown the door soon enough if nothing changes, but it won’t be for another year or two, I’m guessing. They won’t fire him before his contract is up… it’s one thing to lose, but it’s another thing to lose and waste money at the same time (ala New York Knicks)… he’s not exactly doing both.
By 2 Blogs late and a $ short
May 5, 2008 5:55 PM | Link to this
Rawhide: Yesterday’s game(s) and I was there to the end, were some fine hockey. Talk about the last team standing,…and we have two rounds to go.
So of the 4 teams remaining,.. if I were to pick one from each to see in Thrasher Blue it would be, Johan Franzen, Brendon Morrow (what a hit), Marian Hossa, and Braydon Coburn. Wait, de ja vu all over again,..I’ve seen two of them in Thrasher Blue.
I picked up something during Saturday night’s game that I must have missed. Mike Milbury said the Habs traded Huet because they thought they had closed a deal for Hossa and Hedburg.
Does Alan’s article come with an “E rating”? Very interesting,..a lot of pieces fit into place.
Can’t wait until Thursday.
By Alan
May 5, 2008 6:13 PM | Link to this
2 Blogs - It’s not an Eklund special, but it’s very interesting how a lot of what Waddell did(n’t do) this season sort of makes sense now. At least in my mind. There are still a lot that doesn’t make sense too, though(TODD WHITE FOR FIRST LINE CENTER??? ARE YOU F’IN NUTS?!). I’m not, by any means, giving him a pass or changing my position that I think he should be fired… but if you have a hare-brained plan to get a coach in the middle of a season, would you wait out the season and perhaps tank it, or would you get someone immediate to fill the position without giving that person consideration in the offseason? It’s a tough call, to be certain. But we all know what he chose. Let’s just see how it pans out. After all, it seems unlikely that Waddell will be canned this year.
By ranallo10
May 5, 2008 6:22 PM | Link to this
Sources say the Thrashers, with Waddell under fire, may bump Waddell up to an advisory job with the parent company, the Atlanta Spirit.
I’m curious who their “sources” are…because I remember specifically saying this earlier in the season (as an idea, not a confirmation), and I believe Brendan spoke about it as well. I’d be content, but is Waddell the type of person you want “grooming” a GM?? I’d rather Bowman for however much he charges (and I’d say they should actively pursue him, now).
Alan — DeBoer would be an interesting pick simply because of his ability to move into Waddell’s position in the future. Like Bryan Murray, you give him time behind the bench to prove his worth, then move him up to the front office. I’d be fine with that. However, if money is the main issue (when hasn’t it been with this ownership group), I’d rather a better COACH and find that eventual GM elsewhere. Of the available coaching candidates, De Boer would rank ahead of Quinn and most NHL castoffs on my short list. Babcock, Wilson, Laviollete, and Mike Sullivan would all rank ahead of him, if they became or remained available.
Bob — Regarding your 2:34pm post … this is one of the examples I’d hold up as an indictment to the “financial dedication” this ownership group has towards this sports franchise. Profit margin goes up if your overhead stays low…not hiring a replacement for Hartley, or hiring one on the cheap for the remainder of his contract (next year he’s still paid, if I’m not mistaken), completely and utterly reeks of business men making business decisions with a sports franchise.
If this report is true, you can pile it with all of the other financial excuses out there and understand that this ownership group only cares about one thing, the bottom line…and until that business model changes, this team will not attain sustained success.
So again, if this is true, we can only expect to see an unproven coach take the reins next season. That would narrow my above short-list down immensely. DeBoers would be second behind Anderson. McCrimmon wouldn’t rank.
Rawhide — I can confirm Hokie’s correct remembering of the situation regarding Coburn prior to his trade to Philadelphia. many people lauded him as the bad draft pick by Waddell because Phaneuf blossomed sooner (and is more of a “complete” package at this point in time). Now that Coburn’s blossoming in Philadelphia, many of the same people (and many new ones) are trumpeting the fact that Waddell threw away a talented young defenseman for a veteran bust.
I was one of many who did NOT like the trade at the time. In fact, of all the trades I understood why he was shipped off (lack of development and playing opportunity by the head coach). I also didn’t like Zhitnik from his Islander days, and was completely underwhelmed with what he had done in his brief Philadelphia stint. This is not revisionist history, it’s what I expressed then. HOWEVER, I also understood what Atlanta hoped they were getting (and had briefly) with Zhitnik’s presence. Had Zhitnik stuck to his career average, the trade would be far less lopsided but still a steal by Philadelphia in my opinion.
It was a bad trade, I agree. However, it got the team where it needed to go, and prior to the trade was exactly what most fans wanted (a veteran defenseman with offensive abilities, and the removal of the “non-Phaneuf” draft bust.)
From the fans perspective, Waddell jettisoned the two most enraging prospects (Anti-Kopitar and Anti-Phaneuf), yet those that complained decided to deflect the criticism to other aspects of the argument.
For what it’s worth, I hear where Hokie’s coming from, and I definitely remember it the way he’s saying it.
By kracker
May 5, 2008 6:34 PM | Link to this
For my part, I am happy to have the 3rd pick, though we were hoping for Stamkos. Our 2nd 1st rounder, the Pens pick, keeps falling toward the bottom of the 1st round but so be it. Regardless of where we pick, I have no faith in Waddell making the choices. I fear he will get cute and try to be too smart by half as he did in the 05 draft that brought us the now departed Bourett instead of the 1st line All-Star center Anze Kopitar. I weary of mentioning that draft but it is so illustrative of the ineptness of our smiling GM.
Neat year, RH, get us in the playoffs next season, anyway we can and maybe we can hold on to Kovy. Drafting Bogo for future support, likely not too long in arriving, and signing some defensive FA help may do it…along with Little and EC stepping up at center. Please, DW sign no more 2nd/3rd liners to center for Kovy.
In your matchup example of the Thrash vs the Wings, if we had won even one game against them sans Hossa and Dupuis it would have been a huge upset and would have probably included the sort of lucky bounce goal that hockey is famous for. For the team play, this is hockey, not BB where it’s much easier for the home court emotion and a couple of hot players to get it done at home. Hockey plays 18 skaters and a goalie, in BB you play 8 or 9 guys.
As for squeaking into the playoffs every year, if the Leafs can’t make it via that model, the Thrashers surely can’t. TO is a team many players would love to play for and they have the revenue to spend on a roster. The Leafs have had moderate success the last several decades but no Cup in 40+ years (67) which was also their last Cup series. No, a team such as the Thrashers (and the Leafs or any team in the cap era) has to make periodic runs at the Cup in the few years when their roster has improved via good prior drafting and good assets development and management. With this team not being a preferred player destination for several reasons, well, it’s just harder to get the foundation firmed up.
Having said all that, I’ll be happy to attend any playoff game the Thrashers host. Being where we are as a team right now, making the PO several years in a row would help to attract players in those future years when the Thrash can gear up for a run at going deep.
By ranallo10
May 5, 2008 6:36 PM | Link to this
I guess this is the time of the year where I get my most verbose…my apologies.
By Rawhide
May 5, 2008 6:46 PM | Link to this
2 Blogs - Yeah, it was quite the bout!! Nabokov made 53 saves on 55 shots for the loss. Well, that’s not such a big deal I guess…Kari Lehtonen did that regularly last year and it only took 60 minutes :o)
Seriously, though….116 shots and 113 save. Absolutely awesome…and a few of those saves in OT were highlight reel stuff.
Hokie - Waddell will be shown the door soon enough if nothing changes, but it won’t be for another year or two, I’m guessing. They won’t fire him before his contract is up…it’s one thing to lose, but it’s another thing to lose and waste money at the same time* – See Hokie, I think you are spot on with that comment…but that chaps my a$$ too. This whole concept of keeping a GM with a proven losing track record simply for the “financial” aspect of it is non-sense.
Don’t get me wrong, I am all for the franchise being “sound as a pound” and all that…but fans do not part ways with their hard earn money, invest their time and passion supporting a team to chant, “We’re prof-it-able…we’re prof-it-able”!!!
No…this is about Ws and Ls…and if ownership was foolish enough to re-ink someone to a deal with such a proven track record of failure then, oh well…sometimes you just have to cut your loses. It happens.
Besides…Waddell axed Hartley last fall…and it wasn’t at the end of his contract. That decision was based soley on an 0-6 start on the heals of being swept in the playoffs. It was simply based on Ws and Ls and the way the team was playing. Why should the man who was responible for the product that was placed on the ice held to the same standard?
Anyway, again…I think your right about DW being safe until the end of his contract…but that sux! What if the team gets off to a 9-21-3 start next year? Do we fire him then? Or do we “tough it out” because his contract isn’t up.
This isn’t just a business…it’s a SPORTS business. And Ws and Ls count as much as $$$$.
ranallo - Well stated and points taken. But again, the Coburn trade fiasco isn’t my reasoning for wanting a new GM. It’s a part of the whole. I won’t rehash my resent posts…I know you get my drift and I appriciate your, and Hokies, input.
Regardless, I think DW will be here this summer and next year. I don’t agree with that decision but…it is what it is. I hope to God he’s successful… I do. I just really have not a lot to go on in the past to really give me any hope that he will indeed bring in the needed help on the blueline and the #1 center we need and Kovy wants.
Here is hoping I’m dead wrong.
By Sara
May 5, 2008 7:29 PM | Link to this
You guys are hitting the major nail on the head as to why I cut DW so much slack. This team has ALWAYS been run under a business model. First it was AOL/TW who was in the business of media assets and not sports franchises. They only pumped money into the one team that was generating a lot of cash flow on its own due to a long success streak. Then it was new ownership who pumped money into this franchise for ONE YEAR until legal woes set in and more money started going into the Hawks. That’s a tough environment for any type of GM to work under. Everyone always asks why Waddell signed Todd White as our big free agent center - duh…he was cheap. He didn’t cost anywhere near what Drury, Gomez, or Briere would have and I’m pretty sure Don had already been told that. Plus, at the time, he is still having to keep an eye on two major contracts coming up - Hossa and Kovy. While one of those is obviously no longer of concern now, it was then. If it was made apparent to Don that he could not afford three big stars, he focuses then on retaining the two he has.
It was told to someone I know from someone around the organization that Hartley was not going to be replaced this year. That revelation was made around the time of the major Ottawa and Tampa Bay games early in the season. THAT SOON after BH got the boot, when the supposed “coaching hunt” was to get underway, it was really already known that it wasn’t going to happen. Why? Because ASG didn’t want to pay another coach. You can bet your booties as well that ASG is really hoping Hartley gets hired by someone else so they are off the hook for his salary next year.
As long as it’s JUST about the bottom line (and folks let’s be real, to a certain extent all owners have to keep one eye on the bottom line), this franchise won’t be successful. You will have a really hard time getting any decent GM in here and even if you get one, he’s still going to be handicapped the way Waddell has been. Which in turn is going to frustrate your coach. Remember that Anderson quote about making a chicken sandwich out of chicken…well, you probably remember. Same idea.
By Sage of Bluesland
May 5, 2008 7:32 PM | Link to this
At the end of the day, when all of the sheep are finished with their talking points that they are so proud of, it comes down to one thing:
Money.
Period. End-of.
Stop the lamb-like subsidization of the utter incompetence—en mass—and watch how fast behavior changes.
Yet some still prattle on about this and that, not solving a thing, as they continue to lap up the tripe the organization continues to feed them…
By HookyBob
May 5, 2008 7:33 PM | Link to this
There is no question Morrow won the game last night. The only question in my mind is,..Did he win it in the 4th overtime,…or in the closing seconds of the 3rd period. I gotta wonder if the outcome would have been different had Milan Mahaleck still been skating in OT.
By kracker
May 5, 2008 7:53 PM | Link to this
Sara, yes to all of that. But I will also submit that having a guy with better hockey-smarts running our drafts would help this cash-strapped franchise build a base. For me, that goes back to the 2005 draft. No need to go all thru all of it again but if DW had taken simply taken a quality center (I submit Anze Kopitar (the guy I wanted), perhaps you can suggest another) with the 8th pick instead of trading down twice for Alex Bourett, things might look much different now. Kovy might be happier. It is no big stretch to figure that replacing Savard’s spot with the developing Kopitar would have made the Thrashers a better point generating team in 06-07 to the point where trading Coburn and also spending more assets to bring in Tkachuk would have been unnecessary. Few players are for sure in drafting but I have to think that the Kopitar that cracked the Kings lineup after one more year of development would have made the Savard-less Thrashers roster that year. I just don’t trust Waddell’s player selection, be it drafting, trading or signing FAs.
By kracker
May 5, 2008 8:00 PM | Link to this
Add to the above that properly developing the young talent you have drafted can also help the frugal team compete. There is a lot to talk about there as well for this franchise.
By GaVaHokie
May 5, 2008 8:51 PM | Link to this
As for squeaking into the playoffs every year, if the Leafs can’t make it via that model, the Thrashers surely can’t.
kracker… the other thing Toronto has going for it, like you said, is players want to stay there… look at Tucker, Kubina, Kaberle, Sundin and Blake who all had the exit door wide open for them at the trade deadline. None of them left. They also have the benefit of guys like Kaberle taking hometown discounts.
By GaVaHokie
May 5, 2008 9:04 PM | Link to this
Rawhide… you can already look at Eklund’s list and see how things are already not going Atlanta’s way this summer. A guy like Demitra, who most of us would say is too old, or past his prime, already not a factor… he’s heading to Vancouver to play with Naslund.
How do you distract a guy like Demitra away from that? You wave $5 million infront of his face… that’s too much! That’s why we’ll ultimately end up with Jeremy Roenick and Mark Recchi at $1 million a year and a handful of Thorburns, Schultz, Giroux’s, Perrin’s, and Kwiatkowski’s and hope for two of them to overachieve.
Waddell was trying to run the “dog and pony” show, as I like to refer to it, with Heatley and Kovalchuk… then it became Hossa and Kovalchuk… as long as you have two dynamic players, you can surround them with scrubs. If they’re close enough to a playoff spot in March, you spend the rest of the salary cap on rental players… that’s the business model, in plain businessman language.
By GaVaHokie
May 5, 2008 9:23 PM | Link to this
Drafting is the big issue, but as I’ve said before, I think Waddell is getting better at that… granted Bourret didn’t work out, but Waddell knew how far to drop and still get him. In return, we picked up Pavelec with the extra picks. Riley Holzapfel and Spencer Machachek are looking like solid pick-ups.
If we get Doughty, Bogo or even Pietrangelo in the draft this year, we got a guy who’s gonna be on the roster within a year if not immediately.
I love the idea of having Bogosian and Enstrom working the point on the Power Play and moving Kovy into the slot.
This team is headed in the right direction, and it’s financially responsible… we have the 2nd most money to spend (behind Columbus) this summer. The best part is, we’re not “stuck” with anybody but Zhitnik and even he only has one year left.
By NASCAR Dave
May 5, 2008 9:29 PM | Link to this
Yeah, yeah, yeah… Don FRAUDell sucks… Everybody knows… NUFF SAID. The man is clearly out of his league (AHL) and he should be thanking his lucky stars every night that he still has a job. With any other LEGITIMATE owners, that have ANY common sense, he would have been fired eons ago… BUT, we can still hold out hope that ASG hasn’t really made the decision yet.
Since I’m already out 5 bucks to Sara, who wants to start a pool to see who gets fired first? Don FRAUDell, Billy Knight, Mike Woodson, or the New Thrashers Coach FRAUDell will throw under the bus next season when this summer’s crop of Klee’s and Rucchin’s fails to work???
I got 5 on Don FRAUDell. If the ASG is even watching Hossa and Dupuis play for the Penguins in the playoffs, they will see why the man needs to go… One of Top 10 forwards in the league wanted out of here, and he is NEVER, EVER coming back.
Now tell me, young sheeplings, WHO’S FAULT IS THAT???
NUFF SAID.
By GaVaHokie
May 5, 2008 9:34 PM | Link to this
Now, since we have nothing but time to speculate, lets dive into Eklund’s rumors.
Jose Theodore is listed for Atlanta… which I would say HELL NO to, but what could it mean?
I’m thinking there might be truth to the Lehtonen for Cammalleri rumors… Waddell might be thinking Pavelec is the future #1, but Theodore could come in for a year as a buffer.
By kracker
May 5, 2008 9:40 PM | Link to this
Bourret - I always forget whether it’s two Rs or Ts in his name - if DW truly did land the player he wanted that year in Bourret, then heaven help us! We need better scouting, for sure. A non-work ethic like Bourret’s didn’t just develop after the draft. Getting Pavelec was a plus for sure - even so I’d have opted for staying at #8 to draft the best center available.
Savard was an impending FA and DW must have already known he was unlikely to resign him. Yada yada, the draft is unpredictable - well, a no-nothing like me made that call for Koiptar on draft day, so I expect an NHL GM to be able to do better than me.
By Rawhide
May 5, 2008 9:47 PM | Link to this
KRACKER FOR THRASHERS GM!!
Can I get some comps?
By ranallo10
May 5, 2008 10:28 PM | Link to this
kracker — Darcy Regier is a good example of a GM who can field a team with average or less dollars spent in salaries. He has homegrown his team (as Sara’s research showed, Buffalo had the most self-drafted players playing), and has ridden them into consistent contention. However, how far have they gone?
It’s POSSIBLE to build a team strong with little to no monetary support, but one good example (Buffalo) doesn’t outweight the many many bad examples (Chicago, Edmonton, Phoenix, Columbus, Los Angeles, Atlanta, etc).
Again it’s possible, but not very probable (in my opinion).
By kracker
May 5, 2008 10:49 PM | Link to this
RH LOL! Yeah, I’m a loud mouth blogger that on most draft days doesn’t have a clue, or much of one. We all can point to something we would have done. Doing it for real is no easy task, I’m sure - but I would have made that pick, no lie.
By NASCAR Dave
May 6, 2008 2:41 AM | Link to this
Rawhide… you can already look at Eklund’s list and see how things are already not going Atlanta’s way this summer. A guy like Demitra, who most of us would say is too old, or past his prime, already not a factor… he’s heading to Vancouver to play with Naslund.
HOKIE - Didn’t Demitra just sign TODAY with FLA for 2 years??? Kreps too???
And couldn’t Lehtonen have been Re-signed back in MARCH??? WTF is Don FRAUDell doing???
If he is the GM, WHAT is he WAITING ON??? Do your FU++++G job, you LOSER!!!
Just because your STUPID as HELL owners won’t fire your sorry A$$ doesn’t mean you DON’T HAVE to do YOUR JOB!!!
You need to be signing these guys NOW… as in TODAY!!! You want Campbell??? Then go sign him you twit!!! Quit the talk and WALK the DAMN WALK!!!
SHOW us the PROOF Don FRAUDell!!! Show us you can handle your job. Because you have shown us NOTHING yet… NOTHING but a decade of being LOSERS!!! Is that “Good Enough” for you??? Well it’s not for me! In my eyes you are a FRAUD!!!
NUFF SAID.
By Tony C.
May 6, 2008 5:33 AM | Link to this
I’m telling you, Hainsey, Norstrom from Dallas and Ryder.
I think you could get all three for
So suck it up, we’re doin this on the cheap and praying Esposito is as good as orginally advertised.
By GaVaHokie
May 6, 2008 8:23 AM | Link to this
Nascar… Florida signed Belak and Kreps to extensions… free agency doesn’t begin until July 1st.
We’ve got plenty of time to resign Lehtonen… Waddell has said he might even let the market set the price. Wait for someone to make a qualifying offer, and all he has to do is match it. If someone makes a ridiculous offer, like $6 million, we’ll take 1st, 2nd and 3rd round draft picks as compensation and then move on with Pavelec.
By GaVaHokie
May 6, 2008 8:35 AM | Link to this
Tony C… another example of something not going our way already… Ryder is rumored to be going to NYR to replace Shannahan. Atlanta would have to overpay big time to pull him away from that.
The Rangers are going to be annoying this summer… they’ve got $17 million to spend this summer if they don’t re-up with Jagr, Straka and Shannahan… Kasparitus is off the books this summer too.
By GaVaHokie
May 6, 2008 8:53 AM | Link to this
Here are my Day 1 Free Agency targets… just go out and make them an offer they can’t refuse.
Jason Williams (RW/C), Chris Kelly (C) and Miro Satan (RW).
Guys like Ryder and Rolston I fully expect to be in the Ranger sweepstakes.
By ranallo10
May 6, 2008 10:34 AM | Link to this
Hokie — If you’re going to sign players like that, why not just let the youngsters play and get some experience under their belt? I see it like this…Kelly is a third liner, second line at best. Satan (33) is aging, and though he can still score he isn’t a top line candidate to pair with Kovalchuk (in my opinion). Williams (27) is also a second liner at best, but I would be a little more apt to signing him due to his tenacious play, his versatility, and his relatively young age.
Of the three, Kelly seems to be a “Waddell guy”, signing for a few years at more money than most teams would offer, and being slotted into a top two scoring line (he was a third and fourth liner in Ottawa).
But in all honesty, I’d rather see Machachek or Holzapfel than Kelly (who I do like) and Satan/Williams. If the targets like Ryder and Huselius price themselves out of Atlanta’s plans, I’d like to see them give the youth a chance.
Defensively, I am still holding out hope for Rozsival (29) and/or Streit (30). I’d offer both a 4 year deal without even blinking.
By ranallo10
May 6, 2008 10:37 AM | Link to this
Kelly is 27
By NASCAR Dave
May 6, 2008 10:45 AM | Link to this
I agree with RANALLO… I would rather see the kids play and suck then overpay for has-been players like Hokie listed above and still suck.
Suck on the cheap, or OVERPAY and suck??? Hmmm…
I can wait a year or 2 for the kids… But Don FRAUDell still has to go.
Why has Anderson not been hired yet???
By Rawhide
May 6, 2008 10:49 AM | Link to this
Why has Anderson not been hired yet??? - NASCAR Dave, the Wolves are still playing in the AHL postseason…I would think that if he is going to be offered the job, the Thrashers would wait until they finished post-season play first.
By ranallo10
May 6, 2008 11:02 AM | Link to this
Sensei Rawhide says “the patient bird catches the largest fish”
By GaVaHokie
May 6, 2008 11:22 AM | Link to this
Ranallo… Kelly has averaged 33-34 points as a third line Center in Ottawa over the past three seasons. He’s the kind of guy you’d be curious about getting a bigger role on a second line… not to mention his +/- is outstanding.
I’m thinking of Miro Satan with Kozlov on the second line. I think that combo would be amazing to watch.
I think Jason Williams would be a tough “cannonball” type player to put on Kovy’s line. Williams could be a bargain basement steal along the likes of Savard.
Kovalchuk/Little/Williams
Kozlov/White/Satan
Perrin/Christensen/Armstrong
Lavallee/Slater/Thorburn
That amounts to about $26.14 million on forwards.
By ranallo10
May 6, 2008 11:47 AM | Link to this
Hokie — What salary are you assuming Williams/Kelly/Satan would be making?
I agree that Kelly and Williams could blossom if given more minutes, especially with Kovalchuk, but I’d rather develop youth at the NHL level than sign a third-liner in hopes he excels on the first/second line.
I like Kelly and Williams (not so much Satan), but I’d rather a youth movement if they’re going to put a team together based on hopefuls. That’s not saying I’d be disappointed if either of those two were signed, but I’d worry about the players they’d be blocking the development of.
If this season is used to shed dead weight from the roster by allowing players like Larsen, Klee and Zhitnik to play out their contracts, I think youth should be the only offensive players filling roster holes. Let them get their bumps in the NHL, now.
By NASCAR Dave
May 6, 2008 12:03 PM | Link to this
Don RRAUDell is gonna target players such as Jeremy Roenick, Adam Foote, and Owen Nolan… Mark my words…
By GaVaHokie
May 6, 2008 12:12 PM | Link to this
Ranallo… actually I didn’t include Kelly… I’m just looking at Williams and Satan now.
Williams at $2.5 million and Satan at his current $4.5 million.
By GaVaHokie
May 6, 2008 12:20 PM | Link to this
NASCAR… again, I don’t understand… Fraudell is such a horrible drafter, but instead of getting free agents you’d rather see the youth develop?
Satan scored 47 points this year, he’s hardly a has-been… Williams and Kelly are 27 and reaching their prime.
Jeremy Roenick at 38 years old had the same amount of points as Bobby Holik, playing 3rd line minutes at league minimum ($575,000).
By GaVaHokie
May 6, 2008 12:31 PM | Link to this
Ranallo… just think how fun it will be watching the rednecks catching on to Miroslav’s last name for the first time. (sarcasm)
“Huh, huh, his last name is Satan.”
“Yeah, heh-heh, Satan.”
Then word from Blueland will spread all across Georgia.
“You wouldn’t plum believe it, dim Thrashers got a man named Satan on the team.”
“Whaaat, you joshin’ me? Well don’t that beat all.”
By ranallo10
May 6, 2008 12:44 PM | Link to this
Hokie — Satan’s production from last season isn’t the only barometer, look at his production decline for the last several seasons. I think at 33 years old and $4.5M Satan is too much of a gamble.
Hehe, you said “Satan”.
I’ve always felt Satan should be playing in New Jersey, just to make the name fit.
By GaVaHokie
May 6, 2008 1:01 PM | Link to this
Ranallo… gotta also remember the addition of Bill Guerin as first line RW.
Gotta look at Satan’s production playing with a real playmaker like Jason Blake in year’s prior. A drop of in production is not always an age thing… sometimes it’s supporting cast.
I don’t want to give Satan $4.5 million, but I think that’s what it would take to get him HERE.
By NASCAR Dave
May 6, 2008 1:05 PM | Link to this
NASCAR… again, I don’t understand… Fraudell is such a horrible drafter, but instead of getting free agents you’d rather see the youth develop?
Well yeah, dude!!! Pick the lesser of 2 evils, Hokie… FRAUDell sucks at Drafting, and he’s even worse at acquiring Free Agents!!! Any way you look at it, we’re screwed!!! And not only that, but all these decisions FRAUDell makes this summer WILL ALSO cripple our Next GM (who can’t get here soon enough!!!)
Depressing, huh???
By ranallo10
May 6, 2008 1:09 PM | Link to this
I don’t remember who it was that was interested in him, but free agent Finnish Goaltender Antti Niemi signed with the Chicago Blackhawks.
By ranallo10
May 6, 2008 1:39 PM | Link to this
Hokie — I can concede the supporting cast argument, but if you’re telling me “sign this 33 year old player for at least $4.5M and hope he can improve upon his 41 point season”, I’d have to say no.
And Guerin had 44 points…I don’t think he stole too many opportunities from Satan.
By NASCAR Dave
May 6, 2008 1:43 PM | Link to this
We’ve got plenty of time to resign Lehtonen… Waddell has said he might even let the market set the price. Wait for someone to make a qualifying offer, and all he has to do is match it.
HOKIE! - That’s DUMB as HELL!!!
WHY would it make sense to do THAT???
That is STUPID… That’s how you end up OVERPAYING!!!
Lehtonen should be signed NOW, and CHEAPLY!!!
He is NOT, I repeat, NOT worth an RFA Offer Sheet!!!
Dang!!!
By NASCAR Dave
May 6, 2008 1:53 PM | Link to this
but if you’re telling me “sign this 33 year old player for at least $4.5M and hope he can improve upon his 41 point season”, I’d have to say no.
And I would have to agree with this gentleman’s statement…
Hokie is clearly not thinking straight today, wouldn’t you all agree???
By GaVaHokie
May 6, 2008 2:24 PM | Link to this
If Satan goes to a non-contender for less than $4.5 million, I’ll be shock and awed.
Nascar… I’m sure Waddell will make an offer to Lehtonen that he deems fair. If Lehtonen rejects it, it’s no big deal… he’ll let the market set the price. If it’s reasonable, he’ll match it, if not, we’ll take the compensation and move on with Pavelec… that’s all I mean.
By Thrasher_Ed
May 6, 2008 2:24 PM | Link to this
Holy Cow Guys! Can’t you feel Phillips Arena bumping to Charlie Daniel’s “The Devil went Down to Georgia” after every Miro Satan goal? Wow! What a hoot that would be….Nah, on second thought that might bring in to many extra fans and not force The Atlanta Spirit Group to find some real Hockey Players.
By Russian
May 6, 2008 3:02 PM | Link to this
Satan is $4.5 now and he will ask at least $5. I am not trusting any Check republic person after Bobby Holik :-) I do not know, he is Big (6’3”)
By Brendan
May 6, 2008 6:09 PM | Link to this
Some “random thoughts,” Rawhide, as we head to “Round III: The Conference Finals.” Well, for starters, I beat the “coin flips!!” Yessss. My coin went 2-2 and I went 3-1. We’re still tied, 8-4, however, going into Round III. The coin says … it’s Philly vs. Detroit for the Cup. I’ve got Pittsburgh and Dallas. It’s on, baby!! How did you do vs. the coin flips? And bee honest.
Bear in mind, I usually finish 8-7 to 9-6, so me losing both these upcoming series would be “par for the course.” Ladies and gentlemen, I only have one (1) feather in my cap. Over the past 25 years, I’ve only mispredicted the Finals twice (1986 and 1995). So, I feel like that the odds will catch up with me. As it stands right now, I have a very good feeling about Pittsburgh. And woe unto our Thrashers draft pick, sitting at #30 overall, if that happens.
Okay … Pittsburgh won its two Cups over Minnesota and Chicago. So, no matter who they might play, it’d be a first for them in the Finals. Philly has never played Dallas for the Cup, but they have played Detroit. It was 1997. Detroit won in a sweep. Eric Lindros was the Flyer Captain, I believe.
The Stars were in the CF in 1998, 1999, and 2000. In 1998, they were defeated by Detroit, 4-2. So, this is a “rematch.” On paper, Detroit is the best team in the NHL. No debate. Why pick against them? Well, because … we think that about them almost EVERY year. And yet, they find a way to be eliminated. Since 1993, it’s amazing that the Wings only have three (3) Cups. By my estimation, they should have amassed about eight (8) by now. Then again, aren’t they “due?” The Red Wings are a bit like the Yankees of baseball. You know they’ll be back, it’s just a matter of when. This is why they play the games.
Uhhh, for the record … the Dallas Stars are one of my LEAST favorite teams in the league. I didn’t especially like them when they were in Minnesota. I can’t put my finger on the reason why … but I have to admire what they’ve done this season.
Indulge me. With the June draft behind them, their free agency period long over, and training camp completed, and well … their final roster and cap well established, the Dallas Stars decided to fire a GM that they had under contract through 2011. His name is Doug Armstrong. And to top this “stupidity” off, they hired “Co-GMs, a ‘sure-fire recipe for distaster.’ Especially considering that one of them was Brett Hull.
!Ay chihuahua!
The results speak for themselves. They reverse their tanking season and earn a spot in the playoffs at #5. They defeat the defending Cup Champions in six games. They then knock off the San Jose Sharks in six games. Impressive. And up next, they get Detroit, the President’s Trophy winner. If the Stars get past Detroit, they may have to face Pittsburgh in the Finals. As in “that Pittsburgh,” the one with Crosby, Malkin, Staal, Whitney, Hossa, Malone, Dupuis, Letang, Fleury, Gonchar and Conklin.
Hmmn, let’s see … Anaheim, San Jose, Detroit, then Pittsburgh. Nope. I can’t envision a harder, more difficult route to winning the Cup. If they pull it off, the Dallas Stars organization can make several claims about their greatness.
How about the “Cinderella” Flyers? I can’t help it. I’m rooting for these guys. DEAD LAST a season ago, they find themselves four (4) wins from a trip to the Cup Finals? Conference Finals aren’t a stranger to Philly, who lost the 2004 CF to Tampa Bay, 4-3, and the 2000 CF to New Jersey, 4-3. In 1997, they defeated the NY Rangers, 4-1, to win the East. In 1995, they lost the CF to New Jersey, 4-2.
Plainly, the Flyers have had their opportunities in recent years. I think they were even in the 1989 CF against Montreal, but lost. The Flyers won back-to-back Cups in 1974 and 1975. But they’ve lost their last five trips to the Finals, in 1976, 1980, 1985, 1987, and 1997. But seven (7) trips to the Finals is impressive for any club tracing its history to the 1967 Expansion.
By R. Stroz
May 6, 2008 7:37 PM | Link to this
And the Dallas Stars lowered ticket prices for next season to boot.
By HookyBob
May 6, 2008 8:13 PM | Link to this
Brendon: Do recall when the Northstars were so bad they merged a folding team into them? I believe it was a Cleveland team, but I can’t recall the name. They were also so bad Minnesotans wouldn’t pay to see them. (But then again they had other options for hockey.) At one point, maybe several, they were known as the “No-Stars.” Believe me they have dragged along the bottom.
In 81 they made it to the finals. That was the first of 4 cup years for the Islanders. May favorite memory of that: Having just moved to Alaska I had go to the tavern to catch the games. So for a 1:00 Sunday game on Long Island, there I was,…in the Cabin Tavern at 8:00 AM Sunday morning. Those were the days my friend!
By Sister Mary Elephant
May 6, 2008 8:54 PM | Link to this
HookyBob - In a bar on a Sunday morning!?!? An establishment of ill-repute! Watching hocky instead of in the house of the Lord???
taking out ruler
Unacceptable!
THWACK
THWACK
THWACK
Come back here young man!
By Waffleboy
May 6, 2008 9:40 PM | Link to this
Who says Atlanta ain’t a hockey town? 87 comments on a blog a month after the Thrashers’ season is over? There’s hope yet…
By Brendan
May 6, 2008 9:50 PM | Link to this
Well done, HookyBob. I am proud of that tale!
And c’mon now, nobody caught my “error” above? I said Pittsburgh never faced Dallas. Technically, that’s true. But they have faced the “franchise,” when it was located in Minnesota. The 1991 Minnesota North Stars finished the season 27-39-14, for only 68-points. Yes, folks. That’s 12-games under .500.
So??
So, even your Atlanta Hawks didn’t finish that badly, by comparison to this hockey playoff team from Minnesota. Umm, yeah. Since you’re wondering, they only played 80-game seasons back then (‘91).
In 1991, Minnesota was the #4 seed from the Norris Division. (Haven’t heard “that name” in a while, huh? Well, unless you pay attention to ESPN anchor Chris Berman, who refers to the Vikings, Bears, Lions as playing in the NFC “Norris” Division. But I digress.) The North Stars pulled the miraculous upset of the Division winner, Chicago, 4-2. The decisive blow was Game Five, when the series was tied, 2-2, and the North Stars PASTED the Blackhawks, 6-0, in Chicago. In the second round, Minnesota drew St. Louis, which had rallied from down, 3-1, to beat Detroit in the opening round. Minnesota got up, 3-1, in the series with an 8-4 shellacking of the Blues at the Met Center. The North Stars took the series in six games. In the Conference Finals, Minnesota drew the Oilers. This was not a Gretzky-led Oilers, but it did still feature Mark Messier and Co. Minnesota split the first two in Edmonton, which included an embarrassing loss, 7-2, at Northlands Coliseum, in Game Two. But the North Stars held serve at home, outscoring Edmonton 12-4. (7-3 and 5-1.) Minnesota closed out the “Oil” in Five, to stun the hockey world.
Due to back spasms, Mario Lemieux sat out Game Three, which the North Stars won, 3-1, to give Minnesota a 2-1 lead in the series. But they’d get no closer, losing in six games in the Finals. The Game Six final score was a record, 8-0. Mario Lemieux took home the Conn Smythe trophy, amassing five goals with seven helpers, for 12-points, in five games played in the Finals.
So, please excuse my error. The “Stars” franchise has previously played Pittsburgh in the Finals.
HookyBob, the Dallas Stars trace a portion of their history to which 1967-68 Expansion-era team? Hint: Think about the merger you cited in your earlier post about the Cleveland Barons to find the answer.
By Alan
May 6, 2008 11:56 PM | Link to this
Brendan - Not to steal Hooky’s thunder, but I believe that team would be the Oakland Seals.
By Brendan
May 7, 2008 12:06 AM | Link to this
Ding, ding, ding, ding. Winner, winner: Chicken Dinner. Alan is correct. The Oakland Seals, later California Seals, still yet again, California Golden Seals, relocated to Cleveland, where the franchise was to be known as the “Cleveland Barons.” The Barons folded in a merger with Minnesota. In the mid-1990’s, the North Stars, themselves, relocated to Dallas, to be known as the Dallas Stars.
And now … you know “The Rest of the Story,” (Copyright, “Paul Harvery News, all rights reserved.”)
By HookyBob
May 7, 2008 12:22 AM | Link to this
Brendon: Yes, the 91 playoffs were one heck of a roller coaster ride for Stars fans. Minnesota born Jon Casey in goal and the Broten brothers created a huge swell of support.
Sadly, they were up against the most talented player of all time (at least in my memory), Mario Lemuix. He was like a Greyhound bus, big.., smooth.., and fast. A couple years later Mario led the league in points despite missing almost half the games because of cancer treatment. One can only imagine the records he would hold had his health stood up.
Alan:I had to go to Wiki but I arrived at the same conclusion on Brendon’s quiz.
Sister Mary: Strange things are done in the land of the midnight sun. The norhtern lights have seen queer sights,..but the queerest they ever did tell was the night on marge of Lake La-Barge that we cremated Don Wadell.
Thrasher Fans:Correct me if I’m wrong,…but by my count there are only 147 days until they drop the puck on the next season.
And I can’t wait til Thursday.
By Tony C.
May 7, 2008 5:03 AM | Link to this
I meant to say you could get all three for $9-11M (max bonus)…let’s say even $12M (due to the Hossa-effect).
Yes I hear Ryder’s supposedly all but updated his gloves from bleu, blanc et roouge to red, white and blue…and given how well NYR went afte their targets last summer (I mean they all but gave terms of the Drury deal in The Post while the playoffs were still going on. However, I think that team will be blown up a lot more than folks think. Avery’s most likely done-at least at his past-two seasons’ level. Seriously the ruptured spleen has ended the effective portion of more than a few careers…worse than Hollweg ending Exelbys effectives. Also, Jagr ain’t coming cheap, if at all, given the noise about Jagr playing outside the NHL next year… if he goes, there goes the engine that really makes that team go (I think of Avery as the air intake that pushes the engine to where it ought to be)- and Shannahan will take less than folks think-he’s already got loot and rings, he just wants to enjoy the last years in the league on the biggest stage in the states while his family finally gets to enjoy the fruits of his labor (nobody does spoiled trust-fund kid life like NYC-and the activities for a woman of means?-incomparable). they’ll have to push him out the door.
Of course Gomez and/or Drury taking the faceoffs while you’re the “slider” man does sound nice huh?
I dunno. I’d like to think that Huselius’ perceived (I actually think the last two games of that series he really showed up at a much higher level than anyone outside of Keenan’s fever dreams would’ve guessed) wilting at the hands of Iron Mike (again), has damaged his top-dollar amount, but he will still command good coin as one of the top-3 “name” FA forwards available.
I’ve been impressed with Norstrom’s play for Dallas the past few weeks-the other night’s marathon he had several key, plays where he remained calm and made the savvy play even with intense pressure on him-something our blueline is only passingly familiar with-and that’s mostly from getting to watch Havelid out eating minutes they can’t handle.
Hope you enjoyed the novella, brought to you today by ( , ) and special promotional consideration from -
By Bob
May 7, 2008 8:27 AM | Link to this
That’s right, Brendan. I forgot that the Stars fired their GM mid-season.
But wait, I was told by the perpetually clueless around here that teams never did that and there was no point in doing that
Laughable.
I also am taking Pens-Stars to go the Finals, now that my Sharks pick is gone.
By Brendan
May 7, 2008 12:06 PM | Link to this
Thank you, Bob.
Apparently, it does matter to the players who is commanding the ship, above the coach, for them to feel their organization is moving in a positive direction.
Who knew???? I guess some people did. Yes, that will do. :)
By ranallo10
May 7, 2008 12:31 PM | Link to this
“As an owner I have to be responsible for one person in Hockey Operations and that is the General Manager of the team. I thought that the team needed a change in direction. I know that change can be healthy and it was my determination that this move needed to be made. I want the [team] to return to being one of the elite teams in the league.”
Do you think we (Thrashers fans) will EVER read such a statement while the ASG is at the helm?
Tom Hicks is a smart owner and successful businessman, the ASG are just successful businessmen.