AJC > Sports Thrashers > Blog > Archives > 2008 > March > 12 > Entry
DEL.ICIO.USOverlooking A Great Asset
The Atlanta Journal-Constitution
Avs 5 Former Penguins 2
Tuesday night the Atlanta Thrashers fell to the Colorado Avalanche 5-2. Or, if you want to look at it, the Avs scored five goals and Atlanta’s former Penguin players scored 2. For their new team, Colby Armstrong scored an unassisted goal and Eric Christensen scored the other with assists from Armstrong and Eric Perrin, (well, someone who has been here all year needed to get a point).
With the loss, the team fell to 1-6-4 in the 11 games since going 2 games over .500 for the one and only time all season on February 15.
To point out a couple of positives, the Perrin - Army - Christensen line looked good together and Kari Lehtonen stopped all 6 shots he faced in the 3rd after relieving Johan Hedberg who allowed 5 goals on 23 shots through two periods.
Write Your Own Punch-line
Just Tuesday, Bruce Levenson told the AJC, “I believe we’re a lot closer than a lot of people may think or give us credit for”. He then went on to reference the fact that just last month we were in the playoff hunt.
OK, you guys run with that…
The Whiteout That Wasn’t
The Atlanta Thrashers announce a “White Out” would take place Tuesday night in Philips Arena when playing the Colorado Avalanche. The team would wear their white jerseys at home for the first time since the ’02-’03 season to go along with the giving away of white t-shirts to the first 13,000 fans, (with big props to UPS).
Well, the t-shirts were there…most of the 13,000 planned for came through the gate…but the team wearing the white jerseys were the Avs. The story I get is that the Avs played in Dallas Sunday and they had to wear their whites in that game, so they didn’t want to pack the extra set.
If that’s so… then not only did Colorado push around the team on the ice, but also the team’s marketing department gets the back-of-the hand from the opposition as well.
Overlooking A Great PR Asset
I sat next to a very nice family in section 207 on Tuesday night. (I say nice even though the kids were wearing Avs jerseys…rebellious youth)! Anyway, during the game the daughter, 20-year old Tonya, and I tripped up on one of the subjects that have been kicked around recently…discount ticket prices vs. STH paying full price.
I asked, “OK tell me, what is the difference between a half-full Blueland with the fans paying full price or a full Blueland with those in house paying half price”?
She thought about it for a moment and then speculated, “Um, money? No, wait…it’s the same, right”?
Yes, theoretically, it is. But I went on to ask the young student of the University of Southern Alabama, “But, once they’re here, what is the difference”?
“Um, food? More people buy food”?
Yes, Tonya…what else?
“Uh, beer? And merchandise”?
Yes, and a lot of them paid to park too, right?
“Yes…that’s more money”.
Bright kid, that Tonya. I feel better about our nation’s future.
See, what I’m getting as is…while I completely understand why season ticket holders are upset at being sold a package of seats at the full price just to see someone sit in the same section who paid 65% face value, I believe it makes sense to try and fill those seats anyway possible. It’s good business. However, it’s a double-edged sword because I also know how I feel when I pay $375.00 for a plane ticket and some dude plops his rear end next to me when boarding and the first thing out of his mouth is, “Dang, this is great…I got this ticket for $200.00 on a last-minute fair saver”.
( .\/. ) Grrrr!
So, I understand both sides of this situation.
But here is where I think the organ-I-zation went horribly wrong with this PR disaster …there was no thought of how their most loyal of their customers were going to react. At least that’s the way it seems. Then, to rub a little salt in the wound, the STHs get the un-good attitude that is, “Hey, prices are going up…just deal with it”. This, on top of the disappointment in the play of the team.
One suggestion I have would have is to offer the STH the same amount of discount on their renewal for next season. Say there were 20 games that had such discount specials and the average discount was $25 in their section. That would be $500.00worth of discounts on those seats over the course of the season. So, offer a discount of that amount on their renewal.
They might have offered an upgrade to the next price level at the same price, or free tickets to bring a guest, (in fact I think I read somewhere that just such an offer had be floated out there). Anyway, it would have at least been something! And such perks should be communicated before the offers went out to the general public, …not AFTER season ticket holders rose up about the seeming inequity.
Maybe that would have helped, maybe not.
But, I can’t help but think that if the ASG would have included the STHs with the plan to “Sell Blueland” to the masses, they might have been pleasantly surprised to find they had a willing ally in the cause.
As fellow blogger DowntownATL put it after the Minnesota game, “A weekend game with 6,000 people in the stands begging to learn hockey and become Thrashers fans. I saw them tonight, I talked to them tonight, I high fived them tonight. If my full season ticket dollar is being used to subsidize the newbies; so be it”.
Instead of using this great resource, they simply made many of them feel…well, used.
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Comments
Commenting is now closed for this entry.
By thrashyou
March 12, 2008 1:06 PM | Link to this
I just want to see some of the wolves come up and play. I am tired of seeing the team play this way….. I am so disappointed in everyone from the owners to the players…. just a sad season.
By Thrasherbob
March 12, 2008 1:10 PM | Link to this
RH - I may be getting old but I’m not dead…..I never overlook a great a$$-et.
By five_hole
March 12, 2008 1:15 PM | Link to this
I’m having a hard time watching Thrashers games anymore; I just can’t stand the beating. It’s just tough to watch, game after game.
Reading the Write Your Own Punch-line section, my thought was of the Falcons (a few years ago) proclaimed themselves the best 5-11 team out there. &%$What#%^% It doesn’t matter how close you are. Gee, we only finished x points out of the playoffs. You want a punch line? How about “You’re a lot closer to having an empty building than you think”.
By Red Light
March 12, 2008 1:18 PM | Link to this
The financial advantage should always be season ticket holders, who endure miserable parking accommodations, bad traffic routing and a lackluster product on the ice. If they sacrifice their time, energies, vocal chords and sensibility for up to 44 nights every year, they are the ones deserving of any rewards due a ticket buyer, not some neophyte who thinks it would be “cool” to watch one hockey game at 2-for-1 prices or whatever.
Treat the STH like a VIP, make all ticket prices affordable until such a time that the on-ice product warrants the inflated prices now charged. Fill the arena with the devoted fan rather than the once-very-so-oftens and make the others want to come at a full rate.
Misplaced loyalty strikes again!
By NASCAR Dave
March 12, 2008 1:26 PM | Link to this
I SUGGEST ALL THRASHER FANS HIT THE TEAM WHERE IT HURTS THE MOST…. THE BOTTOM LINE.
STOP GOING TO THE GAMES.
STOP SPENDING YOUR MONEY THERE.
DO ABSOLUTELY NOTHING TO SUPPORT THIS TEAM.
THEN MAYBE THE OWNERS WILL GET A CLUE AND REALIZE THAT DON WADDELL IS HOLDING THIS FRANCHISE DOWN!
IF YOU STOP SHOWING SUPPORT BOTH PHYSICALLY (BY ATTENDING THE GAMES) AND MONETARILY, THE OWNERS HAVE NOTHING ELSE TO DO BUT MAKE CHANGES.
THIS IS A BUSINESS, AND THAT IS THE ONLY WAY THIS BUSINESS WILL NOT FAIL. CHANGE BRINGS ABOUT CHANGES.
By GaVaHokie
March 12, 2008 1:36 PM | Link to this
Good argument Bill… another possible wrinkle to this might be they were trying to get rid of as many tickets as possible before the team was eliminated. Because, at that point, people REALLY weren’t going to buy tickets to watch a team that’s mathematically eliminated.
Or perhaps maybe they SHOULD have waited until this week to announce the discount. It would have made more sense, seeing as they pretty much ARE mathematically eliminated and I think STH could understand the discount at that point.
The Thrashers are nowhere close to selling out every game… there shouldn’t be just a few incentives for buying season tickets… there should be MAJOR incentives for buying them.
They should make the season ticket packages absolutely irresistable… “You’d be a fool not to buy them” good.
By Nikita
March 12, 2008 1:46 PM | Link to this
they are the ones deserving of any rewards due a ticket buyer, not some neophyte who thinks it would be “cool” to watch one hockey game at 2-for-1 prices or whatever.
Right and wrong. STHers should be paying less until such time as demand doesn’t allow occasional attendees (like myself) to attend a significant portion of the season for less money. But if you think we “neophytes” who live too far away for the full schedule, can’t afford season tickets, or aren’t entirely committed should sit in the upper decks while the entire lower bowl sits empty, then I disagree. the Thrashers need new people, and they need to draw people into the building who might become fans. And so some 2-for-1s are going to, and should, happen.
That said, I don’t think the Thrash are handling the discounted tickets correctly. They haven’t been been actively pursuing some of the most obvious build-a-fan sources as aggressively as I think they should be — for one thing, while there is a college program, the information on what it is and how likely it is that you will actually be able to use it isn’t clear or promoted to colleges, so no one wants to drive in from out here if it means that we might spend 4 hours in the car and not be able to actually attend. Especially when you keep in mind that a lot of this region doesn’t really understand hockey, so they need to be enticed in.
I’d like to see the Thrashers do something like they did during/after the lockout that involves recruiting new people through the STH. If I recall correctly from my company tickets, STHs got bonus credit for staying on during the lockout and then also got referral bonuses for new STHs they recruited — the new STHs got preferential pricing for a period, too.
Another option would be to charge variable prices for games on the STH schedule, and/or to provide bonus free tickets to STHs on low-demand dates. Or to allow STHs to try out vacant premium seating on occasion based on attendance or other measures of loyalty. More pre-game events, more player events, something.
I guess what I’m getting to here is that I don’t think people who buy a discounted ticket are your problem — your problem is that ASG has chosen not to make STH a competitive advantage over merely buying seats.
(P.S. Last time I attended a game I paid $25 to sit in 108 with no more than 20 other people. I got my seats off stubhub, so your fellow STHs are to blame.)
By J(Z)
March 12, 2008 1:52 PM | Link to this
Maybe for every discount night they offer STH’s free meal coupons or something?
I’m not a STH (I’m just lucky enough to work for a company with season tickets) so I can’t speak of what they’d appreciate since its not me spending the money on tickets.
Last night was a pretty pathetic white-out attempt. If they’re gonna do something like that, they need to do it on a weekend, when there are more people than empty seats. And, instead of white-out, they need a smurf-out. Hell, its called BLUEland. Get everyone to wear blue! Brilliant!
I heard they didn’t even give out the 13,000 shirts, my buddy said when he left they had a TON sitting by the exit where he left and they gave him 3 extras.
By ranallo10
March 12, 2008 2:08 PM | Link to this
I think Forsberg is scared to play in Atlanta, this is the second game in a row he’s missed due to “injury”…scrub.
By d
March 12, 2008 2:11 PM | Link to this
The ASG needs to study up on the “law of unintended consequences”. Certaintly, over the near-term it is maximizing its revenues by discounting the prices of unsold tickets - this is a perishable asset, much like an airline ticket. However, the ASG does not realize this short-term pricing strategy will influence the long-term purchasing plans of its best customers.
Several posters on this board compare this pricing strategy to that of the airlines. But there is a huge difference: the demand for airline tickets is price inelastic for business travelers. In other words, they are willing to pay almost any price on Delta to fulfill a business obligation. Sporting events, for most, is discretionary - not mandatory. Therefore, the ASG’s pricing strategy will likely lead to local hockey fans “cherry picking” which games they will attend based on which promotions are in place for that week. I’m afraid this will exacerbate the long-term challenges for the ASG & the Thrashers.
By Archie
March 12, 2008 2:14 PM | Link to this
So I’m supposed to believe that the White Out didn’t happen because Colorado didn’t want to pack their home sweaters in their suitcases? YEAH RIGHT!!!!!! I call BS on that one. Somebody flat out forgot to call the Avalanche ahead of time and tell them. They know that nobody would hold it against Colorado if they actually did that, so they just figured that Colorado is the convenient scapegoat for their poor planning.
As a non-STH, I have all the sympathy in the world for the STH folks who have their perks taken away. I think the team has to do everything possible to sell all the unsold tickets, so I don’t have a problem with the discounts, but STH should get first dibs on them. Off the top of my head I can think of plenty of other good ideas for rewarding the loyalty of STH. Perhaps they give a loyalty discount, renewed season tickets are discounted while first time season ticket holders are not. Maybe upgrading your seat section for no extra cost. Maybe food/drink vouchers. how many of you STH buy food and drinks at every game? The least they could do is give every season ticket holder a free Coke, maybe then they’ll be more likely to buy the hot dog to go with it. Just throwing out ideas, they’re simple and not hard to do, but it’s more than they do now.
By Carl Brewer
March 12, 2008 2:24 PM | Link to this
You have to be nuts to buy season tickets. Go down to almost any game next year and you can buy any ticket for at least half of the face value. I predict the Thrashers finnish dead last in the league this year. Next years promotions may have fans sit on the bench or even play in the game. What do they have to lose?
By Smoothie
March 12, 2008 2:32 PM | Link to this
Damn it Tiller!! Just when me and Russian get things going over on the last blog, you go and “Charlie Brown” us with a new friggin’ blog. C’mon man, why are you being so efficient? The team is playing like a sack of excrement and they do not deserve a new blog every day that is devoted to discussing how pitiful they have become and how inept and retarded our upper management is and probably will continue to be unless Kovalchuk decides to take the team hostage by holding out and planting his fanny on a billboard until Don Waddell resigns and Bruce Levenson is ousted by the other 8 owner-dolts.
Wow, that run-on sentence was almost as long as one of Brendan’s essays!
BA-DUMP-BUM!
By ranallo10
March 12, 2008 2:39 PM | Link to this
Carl Brewer — If they allowed a fan to sit between the benches, I’d pay. I’d re-up season tickets in a heartbeat if that were part of the agreement. I’ll waive my rights to breathe, and it’d be worth it!
Archie — I think it makes plenty of sense for Colorado not to pack their home uniforms. They’re on a road trip, and can leave the uniforms at home. Why would they WANT to bring their uniforms around with them for some cheesy marketing campaign? If I was the equipment manager I’d tell my boss the exact same thing…”White out? What the F is that?? If they want to provide us some white uniforms I’m fine with that, but I’m not carrying anything extra on this trip!”
It seems like the UPS shirts had to be given away, but apparently the marketing group “forgot” to admit the white-out wasn’t happening after-all. Bad marketing department I agree, but I highly doubt they simply forgot to call the opponents ahead of time. No marketing department is THAT inept, not even the ASG’s.
By MB
March 12, 2008 2:44 PM | Link to this
The question this leads to is “why are you still buying season tickets?”
And I’m not being a smart-aleck. I don’t buy them because I can’t make it to all the games. I go to 15-20 games a season and other than the first playoff game last year, I can’t remember paying face value the past 3 seasons (including the ASG, for which I paid $55 in sec. 117). The last game I missed that I wanted to attend was the final game of last season, and that final game is always a popular ticket.
I’ve had ASG sales rep pitch season packages, but for me they just don’t make sense. For the STH who are unhappy, there are only two parties who can remedy that situation…the ASG and the STH. If you’re unhappy yet still renew your package, then they have absolutely no reason to change to make it more attractive.
I hope the day comes when the team is so wildly successful that their games are the toughest tickets in town, and then the STHs will be sitting pretty. Until then, I’ll be one of those guys who uses the law of supply and demand in his favor.
By ThrashersFan
March 12, 2008 2:56 PM | Link to this
I have been reading these blogs of late and see a typical pattern. Die hard hockey fans who are upset about the play of the Thrashers and about season ticket prices going up. When you read these blogs you may get the sense that all of Thrasher nation is up in arms and ready to riot, but I seriously doubt that most “fans” whether die hard or not really care. I seriously doubt the fan that goes to 5 games a year (which I bet is a huge base) knows anything about the Don Waddell situation…
I bought season tickets once… for 6 games, where they added 4 tickets to opening night in on top of it for free. I was then able to use my ticket agent to buy tickets all year at discounted prices after that. All of the whining and crying about season tickets needs to stop. I went to 25 games last year and rarely paid full price.
I was also told that the deals they give for 2-1 tickets were based on the fact that the Thrashers didn’t DROP tix prices after the lockout. I will happily support the thrashers at half price for as long as possible. If they don’t play well, I watch on TV.
But please, enough of the whining…
By Rawhide
March 12, 2008 3:00 PM | Link to this
Smoothie - Gotta keep up, dude. We haul a$$ and by-pass around here. If you?d like, I?ll send the maid and janitor around again to clean up at the end of each post session.
GaVaHokie - I agree whole-heartedly with your “fool not to buy them” theory. What if the perks of a STH was so good that even when they found out about discount tickets they thought to themselves, “Hey, they got them on the cheap…but look at all the benefits I got by buying early”.
Archie - I know, but I?m just tellin? ya what I heard.
Carl Brewer - Hell yeah…let?s lace ‘em up!!!!
Ranallo - No marketing department is THAT inept, not even the ASG?s. ? Is that another entry in “Write Your Own Punchline”?
MB - “Law of supply and demand”??? Novel concept, indeed!
By Joshgekko
March 12, 2008 3:06 PM | Link to this
Carl Brewer While it stinks that they have a decent statistical chance of being in the basement at the end of the season, I disagree with you on the effect it will have on next seasons tickets. I think the effect won’t be known until we see what the lineup/coach is going to look like. Meaning, if they pickup a #1 center, 2 1/2 tier defensemen, and a solid 20 goal scorer to compliment IK the seats will fill. Basically if they come out of the gate strong and present an obviously upgraded on-ice product the seats will fill. And face it, we still have some of the cheapest ticket prices in the league!
By ranallo10
March 12, 2008 3:07 PM | Link to this
Rollin’ Rollin’ Rollin’ — I’m not the jester around here, that is Buzilla’s job.
But seriously, do you really think that the ASG’s marketing department is SO STUPID that they’d forget to tell the opponents of their in-game marketing plan?
Call me naive, but it makes a lot more sense that the Avalanche simply didn’t want to go along with the charade.
By Russ
March 12, 2008 3:09 PM | Link to this
Alright, I’m setting the over/under at 74 pts. for the Thrashers this season. That’s 6 more points in the last 11 games…place your bets.
By The Other Bob
March 12, 2008 3:13 PM | Link to this
Ranallo But seriously, do you really think that the ASG’s marketing department is SO STUPID that they’d forget to tell the opponents of their in-game marketing plan? - UH…the same group of people still running “believe in Blueland” ads for PLAYOFF tickets???? Un…er,….YES…YES I DO!
By ranallo10
March 12, 2008 3:15 PM | Link to this
3 more games and we’ll see BIG BORIS VALABIK…
Damn, I can’t wait.
By ranallo10
March 12, 2008 3:20 PM | Link to this
The Other Bob — I guarantee you they’re still suckering in people with those ads…it doesn’t hurt to advertise to people stupid enough to purchase.
Don’t confuse BAD marketing with INEPT marketing.
By Carl Brewer
March 12, 2008 3:22 PM | Link to this
Rawhide, at 5’9” and 42 yrs of age I think of myself as just a beer league guy. However at the rate DW is going in a few years I could be a big young promising prospect for his team.
Joshgekko, If ASG was going to do anything big in the summer last year was the year to do it. They could have built on the mo of winning the division and had two consecutive playoff years. Don’t hold your breath on those clowns.
By Archie
March 12, 2008 3:24 PM | Link to this
Ranallo,
There must have been a communication breakdown somewhere in the process. If Colorado didn’t want to bring their home unis on the trip, that’s their prerogative. Someone from the Thrashers’ marketing department should’ve confirmed though that the Avs would in fact wear their home unis, but apparently nobody did. If you were the employee in charge of ordering 13,000 tshirts, wouldn’t you place a simple phone call to verify the event first? This whole charade just reeks of a poorly planned, hastily arranged promotion that was a weak attempt at restoring some fan morale.
By Ben
March 12, 2008 3:40 PM | Link to this
I swear, we should all show up w/ FIRE DON WADDELL t-shirts. There are 5 million folks in this town, there is no reason that 20,000 of them can’t show up 41 nights for 2 1/2 hours of fun. Hockey in general does a horrable job of marketing itself to people. The people who shoot this game shoot it poorly. The media in this town ignores all but ignores all but football and baseball, so they must rise above.
By ranallo10
March 12, 2008 3:53 PM | Link to this
UPS purchased and supplied those shirts. I’m sure the marketing department had no problem accepting UPS’ money and giving away shirts. The promotion was likely planned at the beginning of the season (I remember seeing it on the events calendar as early as January), when most of the IMPORTANT logistics (ordering t-shirts, naming the event, exchanging monies) were done.
This was not done to salvage any morale from the fans, it was planned long ago.
And remember, it was still a BAD idea. Who gives a crap about white t-shirts?? I know I don’t care about a Jets tradition, so why bring it to Atlanta for a night? I’m assuming the NHL had something to do with this since other teams have done it recently (I’ve seen Ottawa wearing their home uniforms while visiting west coast cities, and someone reported Montreal did so as well).
Inept marketing would have led to no free t-shirts. Poorly executed, sure, but poorly planned this was not.
By GaVaHokie
March 12, 2008 4:15 PM | Link to this
I think the issue with this season is a lot easier to pinpoint.
Zhitnik averages 29 points a season… this year 8 points.
Kozlov’s point production as a Thrasher; 70pts, 52 pts, 71 pts, 80 pts… this year 35 pts.
Hossa’s point production as a Thrasher; 92 pts, 100pts… this year 56 pts.
If those three guys play up to standards we wouldn’t be having this conversation.
By timthebrave
March 12, 2008 4:28 PM | Link to this
I agree that the problem is not just the main guys not producing but nobody producing besides Kolvachuk…They need to keep the reduced ticket prices for Thrashers games to help get in new hockey fans like myself (5 years). I’m a huge fan of the Thrashers and learning quickly. As far as ticket prices…If they aren’t spending the full amount(salary cap) why should I?
By GaVaHokie
March 12, 2008 4:30 PM | Link to this
Say what you will, but a defenseman who averages 29 points a season is a good pick-up… that’s why we got Zhitnik because he was supposed to be dependable.
Kozlov “The Professor” is supposed to be smart enough to play on a line with anybody… he’s supposed to make everyone around him look good. That’s why he was offered MORE money to play elsewhere but he stayed here for less.
I don’t know what to say about Hossa.
I think the team was simply “snake bit” this year. I’m disappointed, yes, but I’m not going to get down about the future of this team and say it’s going in the wrong direction… it’s not.
By Sasquach
March 12, 2008 4:37 PM | Link to this
Iceman > Chop Chick
By bart
March 12, 2008 4:37 PM | Link to this
I understand getting people in the seats. However as others have said it makes more sense to get more STHs up front at a whatever it takes to get them. A large advantage for the ASG is that they have the STH money upfront and in the bank before the season is barely started. These people need some marketing help. One of the 1st things that Arthur Blank did was sell out the season tickets and get that money in hand. Whoever decided to dump tickets and undercut the loyal fan base then tell the same loyal fans that an increase is just part of the deal needs some more marketing education. Anyone that follows NHL hockey closely knows that this entire organization is disfunctional.
By Surly T
March 12, 2008 5:23 PM | Link to this
The only thing that puts people in seats longterm is the on-ice product. I’m a hybrid STH who occasionally picks up tix on the street for extra games at less than face, but I’m not sure I’ll go back to Philips until Waddell is gone. Boooo.
By seriously?
March 12, 2008 5:28 PM | Link to this
so did anyone else hear that 680 reported mccrimmon was offered the job and turned it down?
…just checking…
By Rawhide
March 12, 2008 5:41 PM | Link to this
Seriously - yes, i heard him say that it was his speculation given some of the things he has heard around the team and such.
I saw your comment in the blog the other week regarding it and was hoping you would expand a bit on where you heard it?
So, I’ll ask…can you cite the source that you heard it from???
I understand tomorrow at 5:00 on 680 they’ll ask Levenson directly if it’s true or not. Should be interesting to hear.
By ranallo10
March 12, 2008 5:43 PM | Link to this
Surly T — The only thing that puts people in seats longterm is the on-ice product.
Unless your city is named Toronto, New Jersey, Buffalo, Pittsburgh, Chicago, Detroit, New York, Philadelphia, Nashville…
Shall I go on?
Winning or losing does not directly correspond to ticket sales. Large markets like Toronto can sustain losing for 40 years and sell out every game. Markets like Nashville and New Jersey can compete for the President’s Trophy or Stanley Cup, and still have less than 15,000 fans per night.
It’s not as simple as “if you build [a winning team], they will come”. That’s why Predators nearly became the Kitchener Sea Owls, Las Vegas Working Girls, Kansas City We Built a New Stadium So Please Move Heres, etc.
By ranallo10
March 12, 2008 5:46 PM | Link to this
I understand tomorrow at 5:00 on 680 they’ll ask Levenson directly if it’s true or not. Should be interesting to hear.
RH — You posted that at 5:41
By Rawhide
March 12, 2008 5:54 PM | Link to this
You posted that at 5:41 - Your point being???
By ranallo10
March 12, 2008 6:28 PM | Link to this
My point is that I’m not good with reading comprehension…disregard.
(I skipped the word “tomorrow”)
By NASCAR Dave
March 12, 2008 6:44 PM | Link to this
Winning or losing does not directly correspond to ticket sales.
IN ATLANTA, IT DOES. ASK THE BRAVES, FALCONS, AND HAWKS.
IF YOU WIN, THEY WILL COME.
By TableHockey
March 12, 2008 6:49 PM | Link to this
I’m not a STH and unfortunately I cannot afford to be but it would seem to be a fairly easy thing to make a STH should feel like they are members of a very privileged club.
There should be an abundance of benefits made available to them - and most would not be a painful cost for ASG to absorb.
STH’s should receive communication ad naseum. Do it via email - that’s very affordable - but someone paying that kind of money wants to know things like who’s injured, what prospects are looking good, what are the line ups, what players birthday is it, blah blah blah. They should have several events annually (similar to the casino night) that are for STH only. They should have tons of monthly drawings for prices. Again cool stuff could be done without a lot of expense - give passes to the horizon club (maybe STH gets this already?), zamboni rides, participation in events that occur between the periods (sumo hockey, etc), seat upgrades, a suite, etc. For the autograph hounds a chance for a small group of winners to meet the opposing team for sigs before a game if they so desire (I would like to get Joe Sakic’s autograph). They could give out things like Thrasher’s autographed pucks, 8x10s, etc. The list easily goes on and on.
Most importantly these things should be promoted during a game so non STH see what they are missing. Maybe after the three stars they could recognize a STH and give them a game puck or stick - heck there are dozens of sticks sitting in the team gear store and they toss a bunch every month at practice. Have a player come out and autograph it on the ice - this really wouldn’t be a big deal and would take all of 5 minutes.
I guess most importantly a STH should get a decent discount on each game - heck the beer alone would cover the cost.
Maybe I should work for the ASG marketing group…
By NASCAR Dave
March 12, 2008 6:59 PM | Link to this
HEY RAWHIDE….. What happened to the player statues and bobbleheads they used to give out?
What about the player posters?
Just wondering…
By ranallo10
March 12, 2008 7:01 PM | Link to this
The Braves had 14 straight division titles with one World Series trophy, and are considered one of the most successful franchises in all of sports. What happened to their fans? They became apathetic and the attendance dropped, due to the transient nature of the fan base.
The Hawks aren’t exactly selling out every game. As an example, last season I got a $10 ticket (off Ticketmaster) for a seat 10 rows from the basket (directly behind it). Nobody else was sitting in my row, or in the row immediately in front of me. $10, and no neighbors…that’s a good turnaround, right? (note the sarcasm)
The Thrashers have proven that succeeding in-turn temporarily improves ticket sales, but have yet to have sustained success. Once again, apathetic ticket purchasers decline once winning disappears, which begins the cycle of the cheaper on-ice product due to decreased revenue.
The Falcons fit your philosophy, though how long have they been succeeding exactly? They’ve yet to make the playoffs in successive years, yet they still sold out for several of those years (and had a ton of non-sell outs as well). I’ve not looked at the numbers, but I’d wager that the Falcons could continue to lose and still sell above the league average. Why’s that? Because IT’S FOOTBALL (you know, the most popular sport in the Southeast, and possibly the US).
So yes, if you want to the general statement to “If your team wins at a compounding rate annually AND is located in Atlanta AND plays the most popular sport in the United States (excluding NASCAR, which isn’t a sport), they will come”…then you’re right.
How foolish of me to think otherwise.
By ranallo10
March 12, 2008 7:05 PM | Link to this
Tablehockey — I agree. Let me know if you get hired.
By Jay Bird
March 12, 2008 7:23 PM | Link to this
I truly empathize with all the season ticket holders. You guys pay big money and show up to see a subpar product. I have considered getting season tickets but it just doesn’t fit into my budget. What does fit into my budget is the half price deals. After going to around 30 regular season games, all for less than $10 a game…gotta love ticketmaster passwords. I did go through the Thrashers to buy playoff tickets, which didn’t quite work out the way we all wanted.
By JonathanP
March 12, 2008 7:31 PM | Link to this
Thrashers games were pretty well packed the last few months of last year. Success WILL bring people to games.
BUT it’s clear the Thrashers and Hawks owners are trying to maximize their profits/minimize their losses until the ASG/Levinson lawsuits are settled.
As a STH since year one - I’d be HAPPY to pay 10% more IF the owners would invest in the on ice product. ASG hasn’t done that and I have no expectation that it will change.
When the STH renewal message went up on the scoreboard last night it was BOOED. I think that tells you how much faith the most loyal fans the Thrashers have that ownership will make the team worth supporting next year.
By Jay Bird
March 12, 2008 7:32 PM | Link to this
Sorry, accidentally posted without finishing what I was going to say…
The STH should get some serious incentives for renewing their tickets. I don’t care how loyal of a fan you are, we are all smart enough to know when you are overpaying for something. Tablehockey’s ideas are great. Maybe someone from the Thrashers will see the ideas and act.
I know it has been mentioned about boycotting games. While I understand the message that could be sent, do you think the owners would really care? They already have your money. What does it matter to them if you show up or not? The best route is to make signs or yell your displeasure with Waddell and the ASG. I think some sort of organized walkout or protest would be great. If someone comes up with a great idea, I would definitely love to join in and show my displeasure.
By PJ
March 12, 2008 8:05 PM | Link to this
Tablehockey Did you wait around after the game to get Joe’s signature? I hear there’s a special door to wait by…..lol. I like your ideas and may I add: STHers should get exclusive invitations to events such as a softball tornament (or other sports) between the hawks and the thrashers in the off season, any event that puts STHer in close proximity to the BlueCrew ( i hate to admit) would promote good will. In Pittsburg they ran a promotion where Malkin delivered your season tickets to your door and came inside and shot the breeze with fans. Pretty cool. I could go on and on but an ASG rep. might actually read this blog and steal our idea.
By Jay Bird
March 12, 2008 8:11 PM | Link to this
If the ASG do anything for STH, it will be to send Bruce Levenson to your work to call you a smart@a* in front of your co-workers or to knock on your door to tell you to f-ck off!
By seriously?
March 12, 2008 8:47 PM | Link to this
rawhide…what’s your e-mail?
By Rawhide
March 12, 2008 8:55 PM | Link to this
Seriously - If you place an actual e-mail address in the place provided when you post, I’ll shoot an e-mail to you.
By Hockey Jerseys Direct
March 12, 2008 9:34 PM | Link to this
Commit to Blueland
http://www.hockeyjerseysdirect.com
By PJ
March 12, 2008 9:58 PM | Link to this
Jay-bird, unfortunately I believe you have hit on the heart of their mission statement. “Eff the loyalist customer first.”
By Don Waddell
March 12, 2008 10:07 PM | Link to this
Mr. Levenson, the peasants are REVOLTING!
By Bruce Levenson
March 12, 2008 10:09 PM | Link to this
You bet, Don…they stink on ice!
By R. Stroz
March 12, 2008 10:19 PM | Link to this
TableHockey for President
Or, at least VP of Marketing for the Atlanta Spirit
By Nikita
March 12, 2008 10:29 PM | Link to this
I’ll do just about anything if someone will send Moose to deliver my tickets. Rrrrrowwwwwrrrrr.
As for the Falcons…my uncle was a STH for 17 losing seasons. Why? Tickets were cheap, the location was good, the team was fairly accessible, and there was the whole camaraderie of tailgating. In fact, there was a lot of camaraderie, period — the team/ownership were pretty communicative, and he felt like the 11th man or something.
By bart
March 12, 2008 10:55 PM | Link to this
It is about the atmosphere that is built around the team and the games. It also should start with the STHs. TableHockey has some good ideas, why can’t the ASG come up with some of their own? Why aren’t STHs given at least half of the Zamboni rides? I think ASG knows how to do these things but they seem to be running on the cheap this season. Combined with the way the team has played this season the current atmopshere makes it better to watch most of the games at home on TV.
By R. Stroz
March 12, 2008 11:12 PM | Link to this
Kiwi put on waivers.
By David
March 12, 2008 11:23 PM | Link to this
Hey That Audette Guy the other night was amazing, if we could ever get a player like that we should offer a decent contract to keep him
By Mikeyy
March 13, 2008 1:10 AM | Link to this
haha just saw snoop dogg on conan o brian mention the atlanta thrashers. line combos for top 2 lines should be…
Kovy-Perrin-Armstrong Kozlov-Christensen-Recchi
By Kiril Safronov
March 13, 2008 2:45 AM | Link to this
The Braves had 14 straight division titles with one World Series trophy, and are considered one of the most successful franchises in all of sports. What happened to their fans? They became apathetic and the attendance dropped, due to the transient nature of the fan base.
Dude. You’re wrong. Check facts before you post. Attendance has gone up every year since 1991. Before that, the Braves had one of the worst attendance records in the Major Leagues.
REVISIONIST HISTORY?
By Sharon
March 13, 2008 2:51 AM | Link to this
Just a quick comment about White Out Night…
Didn’t anyone from the Thrashers confirm Colorado’s participation?
Maybe the Avs backed out at the last minute, or maybe they never agreed or responded to the request at all. Then again, it is possible that they didn’t know a thing about it. Oh, I do love scenarios… and confirmations.
Regardless, the Thrashers Marketing Dept looks really foolish.
By ranallo10
March 13, 2008 3:48 AM | Link to this
*Dude. You’re wrong. Check facts before you post. Attendance has gone up every year since 1991. Before that, the Braves had one of the worst attendance records in the Major Leagues.
REVISIONIST HISTORY?*
You’re right, before they started their 14 straight division titles they were one of the lowest teams attendance wise in the league. But, that was the 1980s.
How about we look at the end stretch of that title run:
2001, average attendance = 34,858
2002 = 32,141
2003 = 30,393
2004 = 29,399
2005 = 31,519
2006 = 31,869
So, in the midst of these division titles, their average attendance dropped 4,000. At one point it dropped 5,000 from the 2001 mark. The final year of their streak (ended in 2006), the rose from the season prior by 350 people per game.
So they started losing, what happened to attendance once that happened??
33,891 in 2007.
SO…when they’re winning, over a 5 year span the average attendance dropped 4000 people per game. But when they finally break their streak and miss the playoffs for a second consecutive year…wow, the attendance rises. Why do you think that is?
So, explain to me how that’s revisionist history. Their attendance dropped THOUGH THEY WERE WINNING, and rose once they started losing.
But you’re right, compared to the 80s when Atlanta was absolutely horrible and Ted Turner still owned most of Montana, the Braves attendance rose considerably. Yunel Escobar, Jeff Francouer and Brian McCann were also just being born.
Pop quiz: The year Florida won their second World Series what was their average attendance (and rank in the league)?
Answer: In 2003, their average attendance was 16,290 (28th of 30).
By Remie
March 13, 2008 5:44 AM | Link to this
NASCAR DAVE has been smelling his own exhaust too long - it’s made him VERY stupid!
By TableHockey
March 13, 2008 8:42 AM | Link to this
PJ - I didn’t wait around - I heard that door only works during All Star games. I did check in at Duluth to see if the Avs were holding their practice skate there on the 10th but they weren’t.
I like your ideas - and the Malkin idea that Pitt had is great - really how big a deal would it be to do these kinds of things?? I try to make it out to a good number of practices and the players are almost always accessible and friendly. I think for the most part they would love the interaction with the fans.
It would really be a budget stretch for me to get season tickets in the cheap seats but if they offered these kinds of things I would really try to make it work to become a STH.
Nikita - sounds like we’d have to call up Pav if Moose delvered your tickets!
By Sigh
March 13, 2008 9:06 AM | Link to this
I’m a STH and was at the Town Hall meeting. Get over the smart@s* comment already. Have you read these blog comments and message boards? I’ve never seen such a pack of smart@s*es. And if your kids have never heard that language they should have been at some Flames games back in the day. Maybe that’s why I sound like a sailor. ;) But my parents taught me there are words adults say and words children are not allowed to say.
GaVaHokie hit the nail on the head—if our vets were producing we wouldn’t be having these conversations ad nauseum. Who knows why so many guys underperformed this season? Maybe they were staring at Kovy’s white hot play so much they were blinded? Maybe they were too delicate to hear what our Captain had to say? Maybe they were still reeling from Hartley getting the boot and wondering when people were going to turn on them (and they have)? Maybe they realized that Waddell (love him or not) is really the only guy in our upper echelons who knows anything about hockey? Maybe the vets could see, better than the younger guys, how the fabric of the franchise is/was hanging by a thread with the coaching change and the ASG infighting and it immobilized them? And now their “fans” are grousing and giving up. Bravo, Atlanta. Way to lose a franchise.
A lot of a team’s energy comes from the crowd. It’s a symbiotic relationship, I know, but our fans are fickle and have an obscene sense of entitlement. “We deserve to win. We deserve special treatment to see this inferior play.” I want to see more passion from the boys, don’t get me wrong, but how can they build that right now, especially if any of them read these boards? Have you ever worked for a bad boss? Have you ever tried to do good work at a badly run company? How do you do when people scrutinize and criticize your every move? Good outcome, eh?
People are finally considering that the problem is the ASG (probably) or Waddell (not the root of the problem, IMO, he’s the guy who actually knows something about hockey up there), but the choice here is NOT to abandon ship. If you’re coming to hockey for the perks you’re missing the point. The ticket prices are not outrageous. Hockey is a business, and MOST arenas have increases this year. We have a great arena, entertaining intermissions, and an NHL team that has flashes of brilliance. Kovy, Toby, Recchi, Bobby, Kari, Moose, Thorburn, Perrin, Army, Crusher, (and Boris soon!) are worth the price of admission. We have a team that is missing some chemistry, some talent, but I won’t give up on them. And if we have to get new fans by giving them discounts, that’s fine by me. I would rather have a full arena than a half-full arena. At least they’re not giving out free tickets anymore.
By Agree
March 13, 2008 9:50 AM | Link to this
Sigh, AMEN! I’m not satisfied with what is going on in any department with the Thrashers. There are a lot of heart felt and accurate comments on this blog, but so many of the statements are destructive to the players and the organization.
By You Said it For Me
March 13, 2008 9:58 AM | Link to this
Thank you SIGH for saying what I have been thinking for days. The STH have basically been told by some of the fans on this blog that they are idiots for purchasing tickets next year. I want just as much as anyone for the ASG and DW (if he is not fired in the end) to turn this club around. I love hockey and yes, the Thrashers, to give up. We are blessed to have a team in our city. I would like to keep it that way.
By bart
March 13, 2008 10:00 AM | Link to this
Sigh There is a good amount of whining in these blogs. The are also a lot of caring and passionate hockey fans that are very frustrated posting also. You are correct that this hockey team is a business. They are selling a product and right now that product is in many ways inferior. If you have the time and money to continue to buy the ASG product, go right ahead. Many of us are not willing to buy what ASG is selling. We are not trying to lose this franchise we are just making a choice as consumers. Being a hockey fan makes the choice difficult.
By Lew318
March 13, 2008 10:12 AM | Link to this
The best thing that can happen now is for this season to end. I know it ended, but I really mean end, stoppage of play, prepare for next season.
Since next season will represent the 9th year of our 5 year plan I would like to see some changes.
We are playing with ourselves and will go blind if we think Chicago is the answer!!
By Nikita
March 13, 2008 10:18 AM | Link to this
And if your kids have never heard that language they should have been at some Flames games back in the day.
I’ve never been to a hockey game that didn’t involve a lot of cursing. That’s one of the things I love about hockey, actually.
It’s a symbiotic relationship, I know, but our fans are fickle and have an obscene sense of entitlement.
There’s a balance to be struck, yes. It was incredibly depressing to be at the Carolina game. We came all ready to cheer and be supportive…and we appeared to be the only people who did. Heck, we brought signs — the only signs in the building. People actually glared at us (we were really careful not to block anyone’s view, but theer weren’t any views to block). There were some highly motivated fans a few sections over, but my section was filled with a) children who were pretty indifferent, b) guys booing the Thrashers, and c) roughly 95% empty seats. It wasn’t a supportive atmosphere at all. In fact, I’m more and more feeling like I’m an extra in the opening scenes of Slap Shot when I got to a game.
How do you do when people scrutinize and criticize your every move? Good outcome, eh?
Good point. You do it because a) you do it based on personal motivation, b) because you came from elsewhere and haven’t been broken yet, or c) you don’t do it.
The ticket prices are not outrageous.
Yeah, but…supply and demand. The ASG needs to get a critical mass of people in the doors. They also need to maintain a certain price point, or else people will devalue the experience and become cynical/entitled regarding prices. But that’s a hard balance to strike, and probably best achieved by STH exclusives and low-marginal-cost benefits (player events, free additional passes to games where they wouldn’t be able to sell them anyway, occasional seat upgrades/Zamboni rides). I like the opposing team autograph idea. I’d also like to point out that we wouldn’t have this issue if demand were high. If STHs could sell their tickets for face value when they aren’t attending a game, then no one would be b***. But you gotta build demand to get to that point.
I would rather have a full arena than a half-full arena.
Same here. Or anyway, I’d rather have a full arena where it counts — in the lower bowl, where it heavily affects our appearance on television and morale.
But hey, I’m a pretty steadfast casual fan. I have attended games to the extent possible (monetarily, schedulewise) every single year. I love our current team. I’d like ‘em to play better, but I am very pleased with them in general.
By GaVaHokie
March 13, 2008 10:20 AM | Link to this
Ranallo… regarding the Braves issue… and it’s becoming apparent with the Thrashers and Falcons… Many Atlanta fans love to hate players. They love seeing trades, and that’s what invigorates them. They want to see major changes every year so that it always stays fresh.
I think you’ll see even less season ticket holders for the Falcons this year, as some people had already paid their down payments before the Michael Vick incident. So you’ll probably see the last “drop-off” of the Vick fans this year.
By Alan
March 13, 2008 10:21 AM | Link to this
Sigh is one hundred percent correct.
By Carl Brewer
March 13, 2008 10:29 AM | Link to this
SIGH….wow, it’s the fan’s not cheering loud enough? We must have a great road record. Poor ownership + bad GM decisions = poor product. I am as big of a hockey fan as anyone. I was very happy when the NHL came back to town. There is a HUGE difference between supporting hockey in Atlanta and supporting an organization that is staying with a plan that is not producing positive results. In 1982 there was not one sheet of ice in the state of Georgia. If my math is correct there are ten now. We have the Gladiators, A junior B team, high school, youth, mens, womens and at one time a gay league. I want to see a new direction with the franchise. As soon as this happens I will be back. I just do not want to see the same story with the same ending over and over. So I can go down tonight pay $100 to $200 bucks and here is what I will see: We will be outshot in the first period ( would you like to make a wager on that!) We will be outshot in the game. We will give a half*ss effort and we will lose. If I go and spend the money I am just voting with my dollars for more of the same.
By NASCAR Dave
March 13, 2008 11:17 AM | Link to this
WELL SAID, CARL BREWER! I AGREE 100%…
By GaVaHokie
March 13, 2008 11:43 AM | Link to this
The team is “snake bit” by it’s veteran player performance, just like the Maple Leafs.
Atlanta: Kozlov, Hossa and Zhitnik… “snake bit”.
Toronto: Tucker, Blake and McCabe… “snake bit”.
By Sigh
March 13, 2008 11:47 AM | Link to this
Way to oversimplify my post, Carl. My point was that the franchise is dysfunctional top to bottom, and the fans aren’t exempt from being part of the problem. We tend to overreact to the good and the bad (winning streak=Cup! losing streak=fire/trade everyone!). What was the thing Hossa said was the BEST thing about Atlanta? The fans. Um, are we still?
My concern is this: what are the other things could result from the STH and support decline from the fans? MAYBE the ASG will lower prices. Doubt it. STH have already been promised improved benefits, a D-man or two, a top center, and a new coach (all of which depend on who would want to come here in our current atmosphere)and fewer undercuts, um, discounts to the general public. We’ve got cap room, now let’s see what they do with it.
MAYBE people who wanted to come to a game or two might hear “loyal” fans talking trash and change their minds about coming. Losing new or potential fans is never good.
MAYBE the decline in ticket sales affects the operating budget resulting in a downward spiral->prices-product, profit the end result being bye bye franchise.
I’m not saying we should scream and shout and cheerlead for bad playing, but we can’t burn the place every time we’re not happy. We can’t think 10 years of building hockey in Georgia with the new rinks and leagues makes us safe if the bottom line is the fans won’t come to games. Teams win and lose. Some years are better than others. This year EVERY team has hit a skid. Some right their courses, some don’t. We can’t make demands like “if you don’t fire Waddell we won’t come back.”
Make your voices heard, support the team and tell the ASG bosses ideas for solutions that include you instead of exclude you. We’ve already gotten some response from them. They’ll listen to the people who stick with the team before they listen to the quitters. Wait until July (free agency) before you give up for next year. We’re fans of the team, not the management.
By Brendan
March 13, 2008 11:51 AM | Link to this
Lew318, the plan ought to be to tank for the next two years while it rebuilds to being a winner. That way, we’ll have an honest “window of opportunity” to make a run at a Championship. And not, sayy, plugging more aging vets, looking for that last, final contract, into a bad situation and expecting some “miracles” to happen. That’s the INSANITY that’s already been tried. Ad nauseum. You’ve seen the results. That’s not how to properly build a team. Don Waddell was given the tools and opportunity to build a winner from scratch in 1999. It is what it is.
What’s here to make you believe this club is headed deep into the playoffs, just by adding a defensemen and a Center? Now, obviously, those are its immediate needs. But this team quit. This team STILL has no grit, no identity, no heart, no consistency, and no “belief” in Blueland.
We can argue about WHYYY it quit. And, we kinda, sorta have beaten that into the ground. They don’t believe in Waddell. They don’t believe in the ASG. They see “Beast” as a “lame duck.” Etc.
By Brendan
March 13, 2008 12:25 PM | Link to this
I’m starting to think that the true agenda of the ASG has been revealed. I must admit, I got “hoodwinked” along with the others. I honestly, genuinely believed that Levenson, Seydel, Mullin, Gearon, Turner, etc., wanted to win a Championship. I now think differently. It was merely the “lies and spin” that a politician offers in an election year. Their true agenda is to “buy low and sell high.”
Huh? Yeah, they bought into the NBA and NHL at a good time. They rushed to pool their money together to swoop in and take these two franchises from David McDavid because they saw a BUSINESS opportunity. I think they got the Thrashers for $131 million. In 1999, Turner bought them for $99 million. Once the ASG gets Belkin out of the way … they’ll hang on for another season or two … then flip it for $176 million, to an overzealous investor. Currently, the Thrashers are valued at $148 million, in 26th place, in terms of “value.” The Nashville Predators were ranked 30th out of 30, at $143 million (Source: Forbes, November 8, 2007.)
The ASG isn’t nearly as “stupid” as we thought, huh? That’s $45 million in profits. Assuming they don’t get a better offer than that. And they probably will. Jim Ballsillie offered $238 million for the Nashville Predators (a $143 million value, in 2007), a team that entered the league a year ahead of the Thrashers. That’s over-inflated, to be sure, but it was a “serious” offer.
Check out this article on the $413 million valued Toronto Maple Leafs. Of particular relevance, is this little excerpt: *How can one of the National Hockey League’s sad sacks (TML) be the most valuable franchise in the sport? The answer lies in the fact that sports valuations are founded on more than championships; they are also a function of player costs, stadium real estate and the population of the home market. Peddie, (Executive Director of Maple Leafs Sports and Entertainment,) of course, is acutely aware that the fans don’t put much stock in economics. “My fear,” he says, “is that people will say, ‘Sure you increased enterprise value, but you never won anything.’”
Yep. We, the fans, are getting ‘smarter.’ We want ‘accountability’ from our entrepreneur investors, called the Atlanta Spirit Group. You can’t just take our beloved Thrashers and treat them as your nest egg, play toy. If you don’t make it work, we’ll put you out of business.
For more on this topic, check out this Wes Goldstein column]( http://64.233.167.104/search?q=cache:nBOiSWTCf8MJ:boards.washingtoncaps.com/index.php%3Fshowtopic%3D56918+Wes+Goldstein,+the+value+of+NHL+franchises,+Jim+Balsillie&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=2&gl=us). Of particular interest its final sentence, “There are some enormous inherent tax benefits built into franchise ownership, an unrecognized upside for the right investment group who might look at it over a five- to seven-year planning horizon,” said Swangard. “It’s where the financiers make a deal that doesn’t seem to have any business upside seem brilliant.”
Sound familiar???
And it’s why the ASG will keep Waddell on board as GM. It’s all about business. Any promises of Stanley Cups, or playoff contention … are just booze for the alcoholics. It’s just “sweet, beautiful ‘drunk-talk.’”
Also in the Goldstein article, was this juicy nugget, that impacts Kovalchuk’s future contract:
“And there are important hidden tax advantages for new owners of sports franchises, allowing them to depreciate the full value of the player contracts over the expected life of those deals. So someone who pays $200 million for a franchise and takes on $100 million in contract commitments over, say the next four years, can depreciate that entire payroll outlay over that period.”
By Nikita
March 13, 2008 12:26 PM | Link to this
I don’t see, though, why we can’t be highly competitive next year with two new D men, a new top center, and a new coach. I really don’t think that most of our players are fundamentally bad — I think that they are playing badly in this particular environment/scheme. And some of them aren’t even playing badly — they’re playing well in a structure that doesn’t allow them to perform as well as they might in a better environment.
I’d really like to see the first line change up — it’s not working. 2nd and 4th should stay as is. 3rd line should involve Recchi and Kozlov unless Kozlov has a change of heart over the break. 1st and 2nd D-line composed of Enstrom and Havelid and the new recruits, with Klee on the 3rd.
By Brendan
March 13, 2008 12:55 PM | Link to this
I’m starting to think that the true agenda of the ASG has been revealed. I must admit, I got “hoodwinked” along with the others. I honestly, genuinely believed that Levenson, Seydel, Mullin, Gearon, Turner, etc., wanted to win a Championship. I now think differently. It was merely the “lies and spin” that a politician offers in an election year. Their true agenda is to “buy low and sell high.”
Huh? Yeah, they bought into the NBA and NHL at a good time. They rushed to pool their money together to swoop in and take these two franchises from David McDavid because they saw a BUSINESS opportunity. I think they got the Thrashers for $131 million. In 1999, Turner bought them for $99 million. Once the ASG gets Belkin out of the way … they’ll hang on for another season or two … then flip it for $176 million, to an overzealous investor. Currently, the Thrashers are valued at $148 million, in 26th place, in terms of “value.” The Nashville Predators were ranked 30th out of 30, at $143 million (Source: Forbes, November 8, 2007.)
The ASG isn’t nearly as “stupid” as we thought, huh? That’s $45 million in profits. Assuming they don’t get a better offer than that. And they probably will. Jim Ballsillie offered $238 million for the Nashville Predators (a $143 million value, in 2007), a team that entered the league a year ahead of the Thrashers. That’s over-inflated, to be sure, but it was a “serious” offer.
Check out this article on the $413 million valued Toronto Maple Leafs. Of particular relevance, is this little excerpt: *How can one of the National Hockey League’s sad sacks (TML) be the most valuable franchise in the sport? The answer lies in the fact that sports valuations are founded on more than championships; they are also a function of player costs, stadium real estate and the population of the home market. Peddie, (Executive Director of Maple Leafs Sports and Entertainment,) of course, is acutely aware that the fans don’t put much stock in economics. “My fear,” he says, “is that people will say, ‘Sure you increased enterprise value, but you never won anything.’”
Yep. We, the fans, are getting ‘smarter.’ We want ‘accountability’ from our entrepreneur investors, called the Atlanta Spirit Group. You can’t just take our beloved Thrashers and treat them as your nest egg, play toy. If you don’t make it work, we’ll put you out of business.
For more on this topic, check out this Wes Goldstein column]( http://64.233.167.104/search?q=cache:nBOiSWTCf8MJ:boards.washingtoncaps.com/index.php%3Fshowtopic%3D56918+Wes+Goldstein,+the+value+of+NHL+franchises,+Jim+Balsillie&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=2&gl=us). Of particular interest its final sentence, “There are some enormous inherent tax benefits built into franchise ownership, an unrecognized upside for the right investment group who might look at it over a five- to seven-year planning horizon,” said Swangard. “It’s where the financiers make a deal that doesn’t seem to have any business upside seem brilliant.”
Sound familiar???
And it’s why the ASG will keep Waddell on board as GM. It’s all about business. Any promises of Stanley Cups, or playoff contention … are just booze for the alcoholics. It’s just “sweet, beautiful ‘drunk-talk.’”
Also in the Goldstein article, was this juicy nugget, that impacts Kovalchuk’s future contract:
“And there are important hidden tax advantages for new owners of sports franchises, allowing them to depreciate the full value of the player contracts over the expected life of those deals. So someone who pays $200 million for a franchise and takes on $100 million in contract commitments over, say the next four years, can depreciate that entire payroll outlay over that period.”
By Brendan
March 13, 2008 1:05 PM | Link to this
I’m starting to think that the true agenda of the ASG has been revealed. I must admit, I got “hoodwinked” along with the others. I honestly, genuinely believed that Levenson, Seydel, Mullin, Gearon, Turner, etc., wanted to win a Championship. I now think differently. It was merely the “lies and spin” that a politician offers in an election year. Their true agenda is to “buy low and sell high.”
Huh? Yeah, they bought into the NBA and NHL at a good time. They rushed to pool their money together to swoop in and take these two franchises from David McDavid because they saw a BUSINESS opportunity. I think they got the Thrashers for $131 million. In 1999, Turner bought them for $99 million. Once the ASG gets Belkin out of the way … they’ll hang on for another season or two … then flip it for $176 million, to an overzealous investor. Currently, the Thrashers are valued at $148 million, in 26th place, in terms of “value.” The Nashville Predators were ranked 30th out of 30, at $143 million (Source: Forbes, November 8, 2007.)
The ASG isn’t nearly as “stupid” as we thought, huh? That’s $45 million in profits. Assuming they don’t get a better offer than that. And they probably will. Jim Ballsillie offered $238 million for the Nashville Predators (a $143 million value, in 2007), a team that entered the league a year ahead of the Thrashers. That’s over-inflated, to be sure, but it was a “serious” offer.
By Brendan
March 13, 2008 1:11 PM | Link to this
Folks, check out this article on the $413 million valued Toronto Maple Leafs. Of particular relevance, is this little excerpt: *How can one of the National Hockey League’s sad sacks (Toronto Maple Leafs) be the most valuable franchise in the sport? The answer lies in the fact that sports valuations are founded on more than championships; they are also a function of player costs, stadium real estate and the population of the home market. Peddie, (Executive Director of Maple Leafs Sports and Entertainment,) of course, is acutely aware that the fans don’t put much stock in economics. “My fear,” he says, “is that people will say, ‘Sure you increased enterprise value, but you never won anything.’”
Yep. We, the fans, are getting ‘smarter.’ We want ‘accountability’ from our entrepreneur investors, called the Atlanta Spirit Group. You can’t just take our beloved Thrashers and treat them as your nest egg, play toy. If you don’t make it work, we’ll put you out of business. Quid pro quo, gentlemen. You give us something … and we’ll give you something back.
For more on this topic, check out this Wes Goldstein column. Of particular interest its final sentence, “There are some enormous inherent tax benefits built into franchise ownership, an unrecognized upside for the right investment group who might look at it over a five- to seven-year planning horizon,” said Swangard. “It’s where the financiers make a deal that doesn’t seem to have any business upside seem brilliant.”
Sound familiar???
And it’s why the ASG will keep Waddell on board as GM. It’s all about business. Any promises of Stanley Cups, or playoff contention … are just booze for the alcoholics. It’s just “sweet, beautiful drunk-talk.’”
Also in the Goldstein article, was this juicy nugget, that impacts Kovalchuk’s future contract:
“And there are important hidden tax advantages for new owners of sports franchises, allowing them to depreciate the full value of the player contracts over the expected life of those deals. So someone who pays $200 million for a franchise and takes on $100 million in contract commitments over, say the next four years, can depreciate that entire payroll outlay over that period.”
By ranallo10
March 13, 2008 1:19 PM | Link to this
Nikita — I agree, I don’t feel this team is THAT FAR off where being competitive next season is completely out of reach.
Kovalchuk - Little - FA
Perrin - Christensen - Armstrong
Kozlov - White - FA
FA - Slater - Thorburn
I feel the Perrin/Penguins line is playing well, and might be a good line next season too. I’d rather a more proven scorer on their line, like Huselius, but I think it’s a suitable line as is. Kozlov and White would benefit with a bigger bodied winger on their line, I’m curious how Lavallee would do in that role. Stuart isn’t exactly big, but he too could fit the role (checking line winger with speed).
The fourth line can be filled with one of the two aforementioned Wolves players, Larsen, or Boulton could be re-signed. They’re serving their purpose now, but probably could use an addition of goal scoring ability on the line …which is why Lavallee/Stuart would HELP (though Stuart isn’t a lamp lighter by any stretch, but he’s got the ability).
Defensively is where I see the biggest issues (personnel wise). Overhaul that second pairing, push Popovic (re-sign him) and Exelby down to the third pairing, giving Exelby limited minutes and PK time (he’ll improve, though he’s playing horrible right now at his own admission).
Enstrom - Havelid
FA - FA
Popovic - Exelby/Valabik
So the way I see it, it’s POSSIBLE to make one key offseason acquisition (preferably defense), two Tier II acquisitions (winger and defender), and this team could be in position to compete. The team is still youthful (oldest players being Kozlov, Zhitnik, Klee, the rest being low 30s or mid 20s), and there isn’t a ton of roster turnover (upsetting the chemistry).
It’s possible, but it hinges on offseason movements being made. If nothing substantial is done, I think Brendan’s idea of two “tank years” is in full effect…and I don’t see Kovalchuk enjoying ANOTHER season of this type of frustration, he’s proven he deserves better than this.
By Jerry
March 13, 2008 1:20 PM | Link to this
Did not realize the Flames have never won at Philips!
That streak will end tonight, that’s for sure!
By TableHockey
March 13, 2008 1:21 PM | Link to this
Hey AJC is reporting that Valabik is probably going to get called up and possibly Pavelec.
By Brendan
March 13, 2008 1:49 PM | Link to this
Valabik can play nine (9) games, but Pavelec is already at seven (7) games, so he can only play two (2) more, or else the the Thrashers lose a full year towards Pavelec’s restricted free agency status.
Why throw that out the window? Take another look at Pavelec in training camp and, if you’re still unsure, stash him back in the minors. If he’s ready, and I think he is, let him be the #2 goalie for Atlanta in the NHL. If Pavelec wins the starting job from Lehtonen, so be it! If Lehtonen is lost to an RFA offer sheet, then you go re-sign Moose for a 2-year deal, and let Johan “mentor” him. No good?
By Brendan
March 13, 2008 2:08 PM | Link to this
Ranallo, certainly you’d agree that being competitive and being a contender are two very different things. This very team, the one that quit and tanked, beat the Red Wings, 5-1. Of course, they gave up 47 shots in the effort, but they did win. They also beat Ottawa, convincingly, in the midst of a long winning-streak for the Senators at the time. And proved, after three straight losses to Ottawa, that our team could play with them and beat them. Four games before the trade deadline, the Thrashers had that extended shootout win vs. New Jersey, that was quite MEMORABLE!!
What does it all mean? It means, in isolated games where all 22 of our guys simultaneously put forth their BEST EFFORT, that our team was very good.
Yeah, but doesn’t the mere point that we can look, rather easily, to only three (3) games as ones where we performed very well … speak volumes about our “consistency?”
Huh?? The point is … if the Atlanta Thrashers really were an “upper echelon team” with “consistency,” we couldn’t quickly and READILY point to a handful of games and say, “those games were good.” Therein lies the problem. We’ve examined, INDEPTHLY, the reasons whyyyyyy we’re inconsistent. Let’s not revisit them. I commend Hossa for playing in a market he didn’t choose. I wish every player we acquired BY TRADE felt the same way. Hossa will never be “booed” by me. Hossa did us ALL a tremendous favor. Without pointing a single accusatory finger or saying a bad word, he showed us all … that Emperor is not wearing any clothes. And the hidden agenda of the ASG … has been exposed and revealed. They’re just here … to flip a franchise for a profit, after 4-6 years of stewardship. It’s a sweet gig for them. Too bad Belkin “mucked it up” for them. They almost made a clean get-a-way.
By Brendan
March 13, 2008 2:20 PM | Link to this
Never forget, when the ASG talks about playoffs or Stanley Cups … they’re just trying to get your economic vote. It’s like the drug dealer … handing out “free samples,” hoping you’ll get addicted and be back, while paying FULL PRICE. Tell me I’m wrong, you Season Ticket Holders! Talk of Championships and playoffs are as empty as the “promise in the year of election” (U2, “Desire,” Island Records, all rights reserved.) All the ASG wants … is your money … so they can flip this team for a tidy profit.
And HOW DARE YOU screw it up for them! They schemed really, really hard that weekend to get the team on Monday, a full day before McDavid was to announce his acquisition of the teams on Tuesday. Bygones.
By ranallo10
March 13, 2008 2:50 PM | Link to this
Brendan — Do we know if the number (9) is actual games played, or Games while on the active NHL roster?
By ranallo10
March 13, 2008 3:22 PM | Link to this
Brendan — They’re just here … to flip a franchise for a profit
So what you’re saying is that in your opinion, many of us were right regarding the ASG’s motive behind running this franchise (as a business, not as a competitive hockey club).
About 1.5 years ago I argued with someone here that it’s likely Belkin was possibly the GOOD GUY in the ownership fiasco, and the ownership group’s squabble with him was showing their true colors as an ownership group. I’m not saying I’m right, but at this point in time I’d love to be able to say I was wrong (while the Thrashers were the successful organization many hoped it would become under the ASG).
By Bob
March 13, 2008 3:40 PM | Link to this
STH have already been promised improved benefits, a D-man or two, a top center, and a new coach
Yep, that’s what I heard promised as well from the reports and the Town Hall Meeting and from what my ticket rep told me, prior to the deadline to renew.
More empty promises. Check Craig’s blog, now Waddell is saying less than one week later that we’re set at center with who we currently have on the roster. Less than one week later, he’s already shown he’s full of s** and was just saying that to get people to re-sign.
We’ve heard empty promises of this and that out of Waddell from Day 1, and through two ownership groups. Talk is cheap and I’m not listening anymore. Waddell’s proven he is incompetent. Now it’s time to hold the Spirit’s feet to the proverbial fire and force them to make the change. No season tickets for me until they get a new GM AND let the new GM make the right moves come July 1st. Once I see the lineup they sign on the dotted line for next year, then we can talk about tickets.
It’s Missouri time. Show me
By ranallo10
March 13, 2008 3:49 PM | Link to this
We’re fine, but improvement would be nice. Stop taking every second hand quote or paraphrasing so literally.
It’s not hard to decipher what he’s trying to say, unless you don’t want to even try.
By Bob
March 13, 2008 3:49 PM | Link to this
Never forget, when the ASG talks about playoffs or Stanley Cups … they’re just trying to get your economic vote. It’s like the drug dealer … handing out “free samples,” hoping you’ll get addicted and be back, while paying FULL PRICE. Tell me I’m wrong, you Season Ticket Holders!
I do think you’re wrong, to a certain extent.
You’re right in that it’s a business to them, they did pick up the Thrashers as a throw in on their purchase, they can make a tidy profit flipping this team to somone local (no way they’d let the team move, it would have to be a deal where the team stays as they also own the rights to the arena, no way you push a guaranteed 44 nights out the door).
But the Spirit spent max cap their first year of owning the team and upped our payroll big time. And lost money doing it. They allowed Waddell to spend max cap last year with his deadline deals.
They held their bullets this year and we heard they’ve never turned Waddell down on any request for a deal.
I think they want to win. The problem is that they gave the money to the wrong GM to spend. Waddell had max cap for 2 years in a row and look what it got them (and us).
Nothing.
They have shown the willingness to spend max cap, while taking losses, in the big view that you build a winner, and they will come. But Waddell couldn’t do it.
Which is why I’m convinced that Waddell is gone. If he’s not gone, they they’re incompetent, and you don’t build and managed successful companies by being incompetent, and their business ventures are successful.
They just have the wrong manager making the decisions on their NHL (and apparently NBA) operation.
By ranallo10
March 13, 2008 4:06 PM | Link to this
They allowed Waddell to spend max cap last year with his deadline deals.
Spending “max cap” at the deadline is half as expensive as at the beginning of the season. They didn’t open the strings of their purse nearly as wide as you’re giving them credit for.
They just have the wrong manager making the decisions on their NHL (and apparently NBA) operation.
So it’s easier for you to blame two separate people than to blame the owners who finance and employ said people? Somehow they happened to employ the two worst GMs in their respective sports, but the ASG is not the dysfunctional entity???
That doesn’t exactly fit your thoery of “ineptness can be traced to the top of an organ-i-zation”.
I guess we’ll find out this offseason which it is, the ownership being incompetent, or the GM being incompetent. The way many people make it sound, two years from now this team will be in the running for The Cup IF Waddell isn’t the GM. Seems a little TOO simple to me.
By Brendan
March 13, 2008 4:46 PM | Link to this
Ranallo, it’s games played. Pavelec played in seven games. Though, without looking it up, I think his record is 3-3-0. Someone double-check that.
By Brendan
March 13, 2008 5:01 PM | Link to this
Ranallo and Bob, at this point … I do have to say … I think whatever “sports success aspirations” they may have had are being shelved in favor of a business plan. What ELSE could it be??? It can’t be that the Spirit Group views Don Waddell as an “architect of Champions?”
I guess, as Bob says, it could just be that they’re “incompetent.” But maybe Bob is also right that last week’s “vote of confidence” is the precursor to Waddell’s firing. This sort of thing has certainly happened before.
Ifffff the ASG actually does fire Waddell … I’m still conflicted about what their “intentions” are. They could just be firing him to elevate the team’s value to a prospective buyer. Right now, the Thrashers are ranked 26th, per Forbes Magazine, in terms of value. That makes them “attractive” to be sold. And before July 1, 2008, this team’s payroll might be $26 million.
When oh when will it be more “optimal” to sell this team? It’s all about buying low and selling high. Well, wouldn’t a potential local investor not see this as the prime opportunity to purchase this team? It’s valued at $148 million. Even paying $171 million for it now could prove profitable down the road. Balsillie was sort of “artificially” driving up NHL clubs’ values. Now, Jim BalSillie won’t try to buy the Thrashers. He’s stuck with the lease agreement. And the NHL won’t let him relocate to his beloved Hamilton, Ontario, Canada. That seems pretty clear.
By Alan
March 13, 2008 5:15 PM | Link to this
You know, it’s sad and funny at the same time watching everyone bash Waddell and at the same time, talk about how no one should buy tickets to the games thinking that will send a message to the ASG. Horseshit. You want to send a message, you sell out those games, then you start a fire Waddell chant. You can’t send a message by sitting there doing f*** all with your time. Get up, get out there, and express yourselves instead of whining like emo children on a newspaper blog.
By ranallo10
March 13, 2008 5:18 PM | Link to this
Or, once firing Waddell they know some Season Ticket Holders will come crawling back because they felt it was Waddell’s fault this whole time. Then the team COULD just go back to playing uninspired hockey with third line players and the same Waddell detractors will claim it’s now the ASG’s fault (or the new GM).
By Brendan
March 13, 2008 5:18 PM | Link to this
Ranallo, I appreciate what you’re saying about the Spirit Group being a problematic entity. But until “new” GMs are tried, how do we know, definitively, that they cannot succeed?
What seems more INSANE … is to stick with Knight and Waddell, when, CLEARLY, we’ve seen a wealth of evidence from which to formulate an opinion on their respective abilities. Expecting different results with Knight and Waddell … really shows that the “business plan” is driving the ship. If the Spirit Group’s true motivation were to win … they’d spare no expense to bring in the best decision-makers they could find, with promises to the new GMs like, “We’ll just step to the side and let you do your thing. We ‘trust’ you to turn our clubs into winners. We’ll give you the money.”
I’m not holding my breath for thaaaat. I think they want to sell for profit, not win. I didn’t think so before. Or not as much as I do now. I could be wrong. And more than ever, I hope I am. I just don’t see how people are really going to spend their disposable income on the Hawks and Thrashers … when they stink … and aren’t trying the most rudimentary of steps to improve. Well, other than owners and GM lackeys spouting drivel about what their “fantasy” plans are for the future. What FREE AGENTS are coming here??? I’d be stunned if any pending UFA was caught wholly unaware of the situation in Atlanta with the Spirit Group. Players, deep down, want to win. They are not all about the money. Look at Hossa. That man turned down $35 million, GUARANTEED, to go play elsewhere. Why? Because winning is important to him. Having quality linemates, to help him excel and meet his goals, is important to him. It’s not just about money. And look at Hossa now. He got injured in Pittsburgh. Had he been injured badly enough, his career could be over, and he didn’t get a “nickel” of that $35 million that the Spirit Group had offered him. That’s the force of Marian’s convictions about this ownership group and franchise. He wanted no part of it. And he won’t re-sign here in the offseason, lest REMARKABLE changes take place between now and July 1st. And who’d bet a paycheck on that one???
By Brendan
March 13, 2008 5:29 PM | Link to this
Ranallo, if the next GM tries the exact same strategies as Waddell, of course it’s the new GM’s fault. And yes, it’s still also the fault of the ASG for failing to properly address the GM position.
Firing one GM for a like-minded replacement … is no solution at all. It would remove a good bit of the doubt about the cranial capacity of these owners.
By Tony C.
March 13, 2008 5:52 PM | Link to this
Sigh-
For me it’s not about entitlement, but moreso about reasonable expectation.
Let’s review: young franchise, finally goes “all in” last season, reaches the playoffs only to be swept. Fan base and team sense that “good things” are within reach. There was talk of a “youth movement” and, by all accounts, the youngsters in training camp looked promising overall.
Since the beginning of the season, thoough we’ve had multiple 5+game loosing streaks, inconsistent offense, key veterans mailing it in for games at a time and as we speak, are among the oldest teams in the league (Even with the additions of Christensen & Armstrong). We consistently are outshot, outchanced, and play mostly in our own D-zone.
That’s not the reasonable expectation we were given from management heading into the season. In fact we were told to expect a team that could again win the division and this time, truly compete in the playoffs.
Do I feel entitled to this? Maybe not 100%, but why does management feel entitled to a raise price after putting an inferior product on display this season?
I pay for my tickets, I expect to be entertained. Watching a team that as recently as last season was full of promise mail it in night after night is not what I reasonably expect for the price paid and the propaganda I’m given from management is not entertaining. It’s insulting and embarrassing. Because I remember the past NHL franchise-they may never have won the cup (or even the conference), but it was a competitive product with an engaged fanbase and an excellent rapport between the team and the fans-so I’m not buying the “tough to sell hockey in a non-traditional market” line. The Flames were the hottest ticket in town and The Omni was rocking. So don’t tell me it’s the fans. ATL is a notoriously fickle sports town, but one thing holds constant Win and the people will come. But sure as there’s little red apples, don’t win and then tell the fans to be patient, and they’ll go back to SEC football faster than it took for me to write this sentence.
It’s not about entitlement, it’s about expectation and if management was foolish enough to sell “playoff contender” and then put “barley .500” on the ice, why should I pay more for worse/less? After all, it was Thrasher Mgt. that gave me the expectation of winning hockey. THey marketed the team that way, and then through various gaffes have a motley crew of disorganized apathetic funk that I’m supposed to pay more to watch?
C’mon.
By Reality Check
March 13, 2008 6:18 PM | Link to this
In the 8 seasons they were in Atlanta, the Atlanta Flames failed to make the playoffs twice.
In the 8 seasons they have been in Atlanta, the Atlanta Thrashers have made the playoffs ONLY once - and they were swept in 4 games.
So you guys really think Waddell knows what he’s doing?
That’s laughable, at best.
By NASCAR Dave
March 13, 2008 6:28 PM | Link to this
TONY C. - EXCELLENT POST AT 5:52! 100% CORRECT!
By stendec
March 13, 2008 8:01 PM | Link to this
Good guys up 2-0 after a period. Thanks Letemin. I knew you would not let me down against my favorite NHL team! A shorthanded goal plus one to Iggy. You will always be Finnish crapola! On course for six goals. Is that not about average for these quitters? Glad to see team on Philips Arena ice playing with fire, pride, heart and determination. Welcome back Flames. We miss you guys so much! On to second period. Have not enjoyed Thrasher matchup like this in weeks. Cheerio all!
By Sage of Bluesland
March 13, 2008 9:06 PM | Link to this
Great posts by some…Great humor from GaVaSheep and RanalloSheep—seeing them attempt to defend the indefensible is really amusing!
Who here wants to wager that they are related to our bumbling Donny?
Continued insults to the collective intelligence of the fans will result in empty seats…FINALLY…
Some lamb suggested that the real way to show the ASG was to ‘sell-out’ the arena and chant things…Yeah, right—they could care less as they counted the money.
NO—the only way to get the requisite attention and desired change is to completely BOYCOTT the team and its merchandise. Period.
Simple economics. Of course, some little sheep will still bewieve in Bwuewand…They don’t know jack-GaVa about reality and they’re full of Ranallo, as well…
By Nikita
March 13, 2008 10:07 PM | Link to this
“barley .500?” Is that a new thresher for the farm?
Good game tonight. Nice works, boys.
By Alan
March 13, 2008 10:09 PM | Link to this
Some lamb suggested that the real way to show the ASG was to ‘sell-out’ the arena and chant things
And someone apparently has no idea where I stand on “Waddell.” Whining, p** and moaning in a newspaper blog is obviously not working, is it? Furthermore, you’re only doing yourself and your cause a disservice by continuing to belittle those who disagree with you here. Would you like some cheese to go with that whine?
By ch_1355
March 13, 2008 10:32 PM | Link to this
Say what you want about Waddell, but I’m loving our end of the Hossa trade…
By Sage of Bluesland
March 13, 2008 10:45 PM | Link to this
If there’s one thing I love about Atlanta, it’s the petting zoo at Zoo Atlanta. All of those plump, sexy sheep. Walking around with dirt in their fleece. Dirty little sheep…I would love to give them a baaaaaaath. Just me, some sheep, and a water hose. That sounds like a weekend to me! Mmmmmmmmmmmmm
By ranallo10
March 13, 2008 10:49 PM | Link to this
Tony C. — Good post, very well articulated.
Brendan — I hear what you’re saying about the owners giving a chance to a new GM. But is the fact that they’ve stuck with GMs that the average fan can say is “bad” not evidence enough that the ownership group doesn’t TRULY care about on court/ice performance?? The ASG has TWO professional franchises that are the envy of nobody in their respective sports. If they had two businesses that they owned but continually failed, would they continue to employ the root of those failures?? Well, apparently they are doing JUST THAT with the Hawks and the Thrashers.
When was the last time the Hawks won a playoff game? Was it before or after the Thrashers were a hockey franchise? Was it during the tenure of the ASG owning this team??
SO maybe the root of the problem isn’t the people who are running the day-to-day aspect of the two shows, but their bosses.
Would you, as an employer, allow continued failure by your subordinates? A good boss wouldn’t. But this ownership group is.
Sage — Seriously buddy, when was the last time you actually discussed HOCKEY on these boards? Have you ever posted without including your trademark terms like “Waddell’s sheep”, “Bwueland”, or without making up extremely intelligent nicknames like “RanalloSheep”??
I gave you the chance to voice your opinion to the owner, and to the man you despise so much. You didn’t take that opportunity, instead you showed the type of person you truly are and hid behind your anonymity as an AJC blogger.
For all your talk, you hid like a farm animal in a thunderstorm…and WE’RE the sheep?? Talk about backwards logic.
I’ll ask you again…when was the last time you attended a Thrashers home game?
Remember Sage, disagreeing with you doesn’t equal supporting Waddell. It simply means that person DOESN’T AGREE WITH YOU.
By PJ
March 13, 2008 11:18 PM | Link to this
Special delivery for Nikita. Scroll down to about the ninth entry. http://www.jezebelmagazine.com/docs/50MostBeautiful2007Part1.pdf
By scott
March 13, 2008 11:25 PM | Link to this
Went to the game tonight and thought “Oh brother, here we go again” (family friendly version of my thought). But the Thrash did something they haven’t done much of this year - played with heart and played physical in the second and especially the third period. It was fun to be there. It was fun to watch some serious hitting, and it was fun to see some sweet goals.
What I saw tonight was enough for me, enough to get me to renew my half season plan. If they can play like this most nights I’d be ok with a 500 team. If they can make some incremental progress and upgrade some glaring deficiencies they can actually go somewhere next April. I just want to see them give it their all. The losses are easier to take when you can see team effort, and the wins so much sweeter.
Put a C on Kovy’s chest, hire a real coach, upgrade the D, a premiere center would be nice, and we are not that far away from great hockey.
Sorry if I sound like a sheep to some.
By Brendan
March 14, 2008 12:14 AM | Link to this
Scott, you’re being too hard on yourself. Clearly, you’re trying to be a good Thrashers fan. You liked what you saw tonight. Who didn’t? It was great comeback win. But to reward the ASG with your money, while they’ve shown you ABSOLUTELY NO INTENTIONS of changing a thing … just enables them to continue on, “business as usual,” stay the course … with Waddell at the helm. Now, iffff that’s what you want … renew your plan.
But it was ONE GAME. One sweet, wonderful, beautiful “glimpse” at what could be, BUT ISN’T, here in Atlanta. And won’t be, if changes aren’t made. And why would the ASG change a “thing,” once they’ve got your money. Even Curt Fraser’s Thrashers won 14 games, ya know?
Honestly, the ASG doesn’t care if you’re unhappy with their product, so long as you fork over the dinero. Think about it. THINK HARDER.
By Brendan
March 14, 2008 12:36 AM | Link to this
Ranallo, we are in agreement that the Spirit Group lacks judgement, at least in terms of wins and losses and quality of ice/court product. I suspect, more now than previously, that it’s all part of some “flip it for a profit” business plan.
That’s what Waddell was saying when he said, “They’re smart people. I don’t think I need to justify anything to them.”
He wasn’t saying, “I’m a GREAT GM, look at my track record.” He was saying, “I keep their franchise solvent, with a low payroll, so that they can sell it for “beaucoup bucks.” That’s how I interpreted it. This isn’t about winning games or divisions anymore. That’s over, except for “double-talk” … like you’d expect to hear in an election year. It’s just about the ASG … being a “caretaker” owner, until they find a buyer. At that point, they “Cha-ching! Cash in on this tragedy called the Thrashers.”
You who ABSTAIN and boycott the product … are mucking it up for them. You keep this “tough love” up and they’ll be forced to bring in a new GM. Well, heaven forfend, right? Your unhappiness with the hockey product is of little concern to them. Don’t forget that. And if a ticket rep says, “we’re gunning for the playoffs! Can we count on your support?” Say … “Are you kidding me? Is this some sort of ‘joke?’ Playoffs?? Did you say, ‘Playoffs?! Playoffs?!! Call me, again, when you’ve sold the team for your millions, to a ‘fan owner,’ who CARES about winning and retaining fans like me.”
By ranallo10
March 14, 2008 11:05 AM | Link to this
Brendan — I don’t see a potential owner being interested in buying the team without the venue. I think Bob was the one who stated something along those lines, previously.