Ice Man

By kracker

February 17, 2008 1:21 AM | Link to this

This game tonight was as poor an effort as I have ever witnessed. A tired group? Maybe. But New Jersey played just as long as the Thrashers did last night, 65 minutes plus 10 rounds of shootout and then they traveled 10 times as far as the Thrashers for the game tonight. They beat the Senators in Ottawa.

So, DW, make the trades, deal for players, get prospects and picks. Clean house. This was beyond pitiful tonight.

By kracker

February 17, 2008 1:26 AM | Link to this

Oh, while you’re at it DW, hire a coach, assuming you are still the GM.

By Brendan

February 17, 2008 1:42 AM | Link to this

I don’t the stats, maybe J(Z), Russ or Red Light do, but how many 40+ shot games has Kari had to endure already this season?

Asking your netminder to face 40 shots a night … is just unfair. So, what keeps causing this? The Thrashers “offense-first” type system? Poor defenders on the blueline? Forwards who can’t or won’t backcheck? Whatever the answer is … the Thrashers have to find a solution. And quickly.

A sub-par goaltender, who faces 40-shots a night, is going to have a GAA over 4.00.

In any unrelated matter, did anyone see the “carnage” that was the Vacouver vs. Edmonton game? I lost track of the number of fights and possible suspension in that game. It took about 15-20 minutes to play the final minute or so of that game. Every time they dropped the puck, 3 more fights broke out.

By R. Stroz

February 17, 2008 1:58 AM | Link to this

The reason this team continues to play poorly on the backside of the back-to-back games is twofold:

1) The smaller faster players (White and Perrin) are physically exhausted from the prior game because of the size and weight differential they give up.

2) The older players (6 players over 34 years of age) are simply older and their bodies don’t rebound from physical exertion as quickly anymore.

Now, these are the scary stats for the rest of the season:

1) the Thrashers have 21 games remaining.

2) and of those 21 games, 12 of the games are back-to-back games.

3) since the Thrashers have 2 wins, 9 regular losses and 1 OT loss this season on the backside of the back-to-back games

4) we could conclude that of the 6 remaining back end games, the Thrashers will probably procure 1 win and 5 losses.

5) so, lets subtract those 6 games from the overall remaining games to arrive at 15 games.

6) even if the Thrashers win 10 of those 15 games, our record for the last 21 games of the season would be 11 wins and 10 loses.

That doesn’t look very promising does it?

5) so the

By R. Stroz

February 17, 2008 2:10 AM | Link to this

Forget the

5) so the

at the end.

By R. Stroz

February 17, 2008 2:20 AM | Link to this

The best thing about tonight’s game was I missed it. I took Mrs. R. Stroz out to a comedy club for the evening.

By Tim

February 17, 2008 6:04 AM | Link to this

I know back to back it’s not an excuse. However I still need to point out that this is a 3rd game on 4 night and the previous two require extra time as well. So i kinda understand that the player are tired however it is still not an excuse to have only 10 shot in goal and only 2 on 4 power play. Now we gonna have 4 night off. Let see how the Thrashers will react on their next game which is an upmost important one.

By Stats

February 17, 2008 10:10 AM | Link to this

Brendan -

Out of 30 total,

5 games KL has faced over 40 shots (which includes the last 2 games)

You could probably also include BUF where he saw 21 shots in 27 minutes after Hedberg got pulled.

8 more games between 35-40 shots

Since returning Dec. 1 - KL has only had one loss where the shots were kept under 25.

When I get to work on Mon, I will update my earlier first career post as “J” when I compared his shots faced with other goaltenders. I am sure it has become more ridiculous.

By Brendan

February 17, 2008 11:00 AM | Link to this

Thank you Stats/J(Z). It is with much appreciation that I admire your statistical dedication to our club.

See?? This is the benefit of a blog for the whole city. Somebody OUT THERE is keeping track of all this stuff.

I bet, if I asked, someone would know how our shots on goal breakdown not only by period, but also by 5-minute increments of the 60-minute game. Someone out there … knows what our average “shots on goal per Power Play attempt” is. I’d be thrilled if the answere were one (1) or better. It’d mean we at least put forth a shot on the net during our manpower advantages. Imagine how much it would improve (from WHATEVER it is) if Toby Enstrom shot more? I don’t think there is any mechanism in place to track shots “taken” as opposed to “shots on the net” during a PP.

By Jim

February 17, 2008 11:18 AM | Link to this

DW talks about the Thrash being a “fragile” team. He’s the fragile piece in this puzzle. Other teams play back to back and tighten up and give a solid effort, witness the Devils and Caps last night. He can’t either come up with a strategy or a motivational word to get this team to do the same. My guess, he doesn’t know how. Almost every second game of a back to back for us has been a disaster. Get rid of the “fragile” coach and let Mac motivate them.

By Stats

February 17, 2008 11:45 AM | Link to this

Thanks.

Actually, though J(Z) and I are two separate folks. I was reading the blog for a long time and made my first post as J, not realizing that you already had a J. I switched to Stats - he switched to J(Z).

Here is a rough stat which will boggle you. KL has played 1873 minutes and seen 1042 shots. That means he sees a shot every 1:45 seconds (roughly), for an average of about 33 per game.

By Stats

February 17, 2008 12:07 PM | Link to this

Here is some more to chew on:

KL is a pretty impressive 2-2-1 in thsoe 40 + shot games. Both wins came allowing only 1 or 2 goals (rather than getting a win in a 6-5 shootout type game). Last night was actually his lowest save % of the 40 shot games and he still saved .918.

Can anyone think of the last time the offense/defense bailed out KL instead of KL bailing out the offense or defense???? Really, when was the last time we only allowed 10-15 shots and gave KL a nice easy win or managed to score 5-6 goals on a night when he was a little off??? I cannot find a single win all year where he had a GAA over 3. The “easiest” win we have given him looks to be a 20 shot game against STL on 12/23.

By Rawhide

February 17, 2008 12:40 PM | Link to this

Stats - Can anyone think of the last time the offense/defense bailed out KL instead of KL bailing out the offense or defense????….Good question.

The last two games I can think of that the offense made life easy for the team was the 4-1 win vs. Pittsburgh on 1/30 and the 5-1 win in Detroit on 1/15. But still Kari faced 30 and 47 SOGs in those games respectively.

Last week, when the D was able to hold Vancouver and Tampa Bay to 28 shots in both games…the offense could only muster 3 goals total in both.

Can’t remember the last time, when Kari had an “off” night, the offense stepped up and won a game 5-4…

By Roswell Thrasherfan

February 17, 2008 1:06 PM | Link to this

r.stroz your statement that perrin and white are hurting us “because of the size and weight differential they give up” is completely inaccurate as lets look at them compared to some others who play their position

perrin 5 9 180lbs

white 5 10 195lbs

top 3 free agents centers last summer

briere 5 10 179lbs

gomez 5 11 200lbs

drury 5 10 190lbs

defensive forwards of the year from last 10 years

brindamour 6 1 205lbs

draper 5 10 188lbs

lehtinen 6 0 192lbs

peca 5 11 181lbs

madden 5 11 190lbs

yzerman 5 10 187lbs

i dont see how all those guys are that much bigger than perrin and white so why would you say such a thing?

By kracker

February 17, 2008 1:12 PM | Link to this

Let me say a small bit in favor of White and is he tough or a creampuff? He has two games in a row getting a goal while battling in the crease.

By Roswell Thrasherfan

February 17, 2008 1:15 PM | Link to this

r.stroz since you accused me of not knowing anything about hockey because i never played can you also please tell everyone on the blog where you played in addition to telling us all why you said perrin and white are too small

By Roswell Thrasherfan

February 17, 2008 1:20 PM | Link to this

kracker you are spot on but can i also ask if perrin is so physically exhausted and cant play defense because of his lack of size then why would he spend so much time on the penalty kill and how on earth can he lead the league in shorthanded points?

By Brendan

February 17, 2008 1:35 PM | Link to this

I think it’s our “age” that is hurting us on the back end of the “back-to-back” games. Well, what ELSE could it be? The whole team has “mental lapses,” not just Kari Lehtonen?

I’m not sure I can buy into “Waddell can’t come up with two successive game plans.” Look. I hear you!! I know … you want John Anderson. Or, you want Brad McCrimmon. I can respect that. Truly.

But I’ve backed Waddell being behind the bench this entire time. I’ve done so … because this is the guy who controls their fate. Waddell decides if they get traded. Waddell decides if they get demoted to the minors. Don Wadddell decides who gets put out there on waivers. Don Waddell decides who gets contracts for next year and who doesn’t. I would think such things would motivate his players.

Don Waddell also appears, at least to me, to be a “player’s coach.” I just don’t hear him dogging Slava Kozlov, Bobby Holik, Alexei Zhitnik or well … ANYONE. Maybe he’s “too nice” of a guy? He is always so tolerant and forgiving of the misplays this team continues to make. Has Don Waddell “benched” anyone since he took over as Coach?

Anyone know? I don’t. That’s why I’m asking. I’m curious, is all. I cannot recall a single instance when Waddell took a player aside and parked ‘im on the far end of the pine. As disciplinary action or for poor performance. Perhaps it’s not in his nature to do so.

Folks, I can’t picture Don Waddell skating this team at practice, like Herb Brooks with the 1980 Olympic team. And I’m not sure what good it would do. Don treats his players like professionals, not college kids who need to be whipped into shape.

I don’t think Don is the sort who’ll make a trade for the sake of making a trade. But if he does make a trade, to put the fear of God back into his team, I’m always reminded that every team, at the trade deadline, wants a defenseman. Maybe Don dangles Steve McCarthy out there. I just hope he leaves the blueliners in Chicago alone. I want Grant Lewis, Nathan Oystick, Kwiatowski, Chad Denny and Boris Valabik to get their shot to play here in Atlanta, in the bigs.

Trading Coburn for Zhitnik was NECESSARY at the time, to help make the playoffs last season. Without doing ANYTHING, the Thrashers are still capable of winning this division. They just have to play better.

By Smoothie

February 17, 2008 1:41 PM | Link to this

White ain’t all that small, but he’s most certainly soft as CHARMIN!!!!!

By Stats

February 17, 2008 2:09 PM | Link to this

OK Brendan - I had more time today than I thought. Ready for this… (again rough numbers).

Dominik Hasek (DET) has 30 games in goal, KL has 33 games.

If KL was seeing only 25 shots per game, he would be tied for the league lead GAA at 2.07.

If KL faced the same # of shots as Hasek (638 over 30 games instead of 1042 over 33 games) KL’s GAA would be a sick 1.76.

By Rawhide

February 17, 2008 2:12 PM | Link to this

On a MUCH higher note…Richard Zednick was released from the hospital last Friday.

Take a look at his neck in the photo…

His wife, Jessica, had just gotten home from the hospital last Sunday when she got the news about what had happened in Buffalo….the Zednik’s 4 year old daughter was battling a high fever.

Talk about a tough day!

By Stats

February 17, 2008 2:16 PM | Link to this

Sorry, accidentally hit post:

Continuing -

Osgood (DET) has 32 games in goal.

IF KL faced the same # of shots as Osgood (747 over 32 games), KL’s GAA would still be a rediculous 1.88.

By Tim

February 17, 2008 2:28 PM | Link to this

Brendan, DW bench Zhitnik once. Thats the only one that come in my mind and since then, for most of the time, he played a very solid game.

Like i said earlier, back to back is not an excuse, hoever what about back to back to back with only 1 day of rest for an agin team? Yes we played 3 games in 4 days and out of those 3 games we win twice.

I am ready to forgive this pathetic show if they keep on winnin with a ratio of 3 win to 1 loss.

And wow, I was looking our schedule and we still have 6 of those 3 game in 4 night left, including a 7 game in 11 days. Hope that they will find a strategy not for having this kind of repeat. Anyone feel like the NHL has mess up badly with Thrashers schedule? I count 18 back to back game this season for the Thrashers,with 6 of them in March (including 03/31-04/01). Anyone know the back to back games occurence for the others teams?

By Stats

February 17, 2008 2:32 PM | Link to this

OK, last one (I am a firm believer that stats cannot hide anything).

Last year - KL had 3 games facing 40 + shots and 19 games of 35-40 shots.

Just in case you think it is all hypothetical to consider what KL would look like with a solid defense in front of him (like Hasek/Osgood)- consider this:

This summer playing for Finland - KL saw an average of 24 shots/game for 6 games. The result - 4 - 2 record, 1.93 GAA and 1 shutout.

You can talk all you want about soft goals, mental lapses, general aloofness - the statistical reality is that this kid can play. We must get some offense and defense to help.

By Brendan

February 17, 2008 2:32 PM | Link to this

Stats, good stuff! This supports the notion of re-signing Kari. Hedberg is managing pretty okay, too. But I think we all know that Moose will field some nice offers for his services this Summer. And, really, none of us should begrudge him for taking them.

DW could be using this break to re-sign Kari Lehtonen, like other GMs are doing. The NY Rangers just locked up Henrik Lundqvist to a six-year deal. The Calgary Flames just re-upped Dion Phaneuf to a six-year deal. Other GM’s do this sort of thing, even now, as the trade deadline approaches. The time to get Kari on the cheap is right now.

Unless the plan is … let’s see how BADLY Lehtonen tanks down the stretch, so that we can get him even CHEAPER, then I don’t understand the strategy of “inaction” about a guy we drafted 2nd overall, back in 2002.

Hope someone can explain it to me.

By Sara

February 17, 2008 2:33 PM | Link to this

Definite stinker of a game but it happens.

Re: shots on goal last night - DE said something interesting that either no one else caught or thought to bring up. Mainly that he is fairly certain that the stats people in Long Island have been padding the SOG numbers in favor of their team. He pointed out a few times where the Thrash had taken shots on goal that were never registered on the shot clock. He also said he had noticed the same thing when he did the Isles-Flyers broadcast for Versus last Tues.

I’m not saying this to excuse the abyssmal Thrasher performance from last night. But it really p** me off that a team would be allowed to get away with that. That affects players stats, particularly the goalies. Things like that just make me want to smack somebody. I hate cheaters. But then again, this is the same organization that continues to employ Chris Simon so no more than one should expect I suppose.

By NASCAR Dave

February 17, 2008 2:36 PM | Link to this

RAWHIDE! Whats up dude?? We’re in an RV on the infield of Daytona. I’m on my lady’s laptop right now. The race is about to begin and the excitement is in the air!!

As for last night, best idea I can think of is to foreget about that crap! Delete from memory!

I think DWAD oughta do the Hossa trade now. Like Hokie said, we have a few days to practice with the new guys before Carolina game.

Ok brother, gotta go! They starting Natl Anthem!

GO THRASHERS!

By kracker

February 17, 2008 2:38 PM | Link to this

Stats Yes, it’s almost like instead of Kari being the last line of defense, he is the first and only line of defense on some nights. He must get very discouraged by the lack of team support.

By Tim

February 17, 2008 2:43 PM | Link to this

Made me appreciate KL even more.

About choaching chage, I am with Brendan here. I rather wait til the end of the season where there is much more choice to pick. I am sure Beast is a good guy, however seeing that he is a defenceman and seeing how we play defence, I am not sure he is the right choice. We also need to find a special team coach this off season. And I might sound greedy but we do need to retool our scouting staff. We not doing bad in that area compare to the other NHL team but we do need to be way better.

And I said try signing KL to a 5 years 15 millions contract. Due to his injuries history, I think this is possible. With a 3 millions cap hit for the next 5 seasons, it is a very good deal for a KL caliber, of course if he injured himself again, that’s another story.

By R. Stroz

February 17, 2008 2:46 PM | Link to this

Roswell Thrasherfan - Try reading the entire post again without taking parts out of context.

The issue which is addressed is the team’s inability to perform well on the backside of back to back games. The post isn’t a bash Perrin (who I actually like as a player) or White (who I could do without).

My theory, for the poor performance on the second game of the back to back games, is the size and age of team and how those chararcteristics are effecting the team’s performance.

What’s your theory on the Thrashers poor record in the second game of the back to back games ?

Or like every other question I’ve asked, you just duck it.

Here are a few examples of questions you have choosen not to answer:

For the fourth time, what is the center’s responsiblity in the defensive zone?

Name the four or five prospects in Chicago which could help the Thrashers in upcoming years. Please leave out the AAAA players.

What is your definition of incremental progress? More than 97 points this season (not going to happen)? One playoff game win? A first round win? What would you give up in prospects and draft picks to get to each stratum?

But we will stick to the question at hand since multiple questions seem beyond your scope:

What’s your theory resulting in the Thrashers poor record in the second game of the back to back games ?

I know you would probably like to know my hockey background; but, without answering my Thrasher related questions, you don’t get squat.

By the way, since you haven’t addressed my short track race offer, at this point, how about you say we just throw down the gloves for some good ole time hockey?

By R. Stroz

February 17, 2008 2:52 PM | Link to this

Brendan - DW did park Zhitnik on the pine for one game due to poor performance.

By Rawhide

February 17, 2008 2:53 PM | Link to this

As for Zhitty sitting….he didn’t play vs. Edmonton last month. So in the two games without him, we are 0-2-0 giving up 8 goals and 73 shots in those games.

Just the numbers, folks…

NascarDave - Whoo-Hoo!!! What a BLAST!!! Enjoy it and have a safe return!

Kracker - Kari could have sued for non-support last night!

Sara - It was mentioned on the previous blog just after the game by B. Thenet…I heard DE say it too, but honestly, since I didn’t keep up with SOGs on my own, I dunno…

A 39 shots difference does seem very high…but unless someone has a tape of it or DVR that I could watch end to end and count the shots myself…I don’t want to just take the statement and run with it.

However, that being said…IF the hometown scorer was indeed padding numbers for the Islander offense…then he is just making Kari’s SV% look that much better. Also, if he isn’t crediting SOGs for Atlanta’s offense, then he his making DiPietro’s numbers look worse…so, outside of the “head game”, what’s the point in it???

Regardless, the only number on the board that really mattered was the one that displayed Islanders-4 Atlanta-1.

By Jeff

February 17, 2008 3:02 PM | Link to this

Stats great work on KL’s numbers. Kari has been the red headed stop child of the thrashers for too long. It is easier to blame him than look at the real problems on this team.

By kracker

February 17, 2008 3:07 PM | Link to this

Hey NASCAR, you got your keyboard fixed!

By Brendan

February 17, 2008 3:14 PM | Link to this

R.Stroz, I did just read on the Custance article about Zhitnik missing the game, due to the flu, that Zhitnik was a “healthy scratch” for one game, up in the pressbox.

I suppose, technically, that’s “benching” him. But what I was getting at was … when was the last time … a “suited up player” was told, “you’re done for the night.” Like what Hartley would do with Kovalchuk for his lackluster neutral zone play, and other defensive miscues.

Tim, je suis aussi d’avis qu’il nous fault changer notre “scouting.” Dan Marr may be a relatively effective scout, but we could be doing a lot better than Slater, Lehtonen, Kovalchuk, Enstrom, and Exelby. Now, to be fair, Little, Sterling, Pavelec and Colin Stuart have played some for Atlanta this season. But they didn’t stay. Which begs the question, “WHYYYYY didn’t they stay?”

By Roswell Thrasherfan

February 17, 2008 3:17 PM | Link to this

r.stroz are you stating that you never said that “The smaller faster players (White and Perrin) are physically exhausted from the prior game because of the size and weight differential they give up” i simply listed their sizes and weights so why are you so testy and sensitive? how was that taking something out of context? you stated that they were lacking size and weight so i simply listed their size and weight compared to other high caliber players. also if you hate all the prospects in chicago then why are you making the argument we shouldnt give up any prospects at the trade deadline. oh yeah any real hockey player is more than happy to brag about their playing days you on the other hand have squat in that department. you shouldnt accuse other people of never playing the game when you have never played yourself and dont know anything from playing experience

By R. Stroz

February 17, 2008 3:42 PM | Link to this

Roswell Thrasherfan - Once again you didn’t answer any of the Thrasher questions.

By R. Stroz

February 17, 2008 3:48 PM | Link to this

But what I was getting at was ” when was the last time a “suited up player” was told, “you’re done for the night.” Like what Hartley would do with Kovalchuk for his lackluster neutral zone play, and other defensive miscues.

Brendan - Point taken and you are correct, I’ve never seen DW bench a player for the night due to a brain fart.

By Roswell Thrasherfan

February 17, 2008 3:53 PM | Link to this

r.stroz i could answer those questions but since you never played the game you wouldnt understand my terminology perhaps you will lace them up one day instead of telling people to flush their head in the toilet

By kracker

February 17, 2008 3:55 PM | Link to this

RH probably appreciates the back and forth by you guys for driving up his hits ratio :) …Me…my eyes glaze over and I move on down the page.

By Rawhide

February 17, 2008 4:03 PM | Link to this

Kracker - Let ‘em have at it…it’s what a blog is for, eh?

As for “driving up the ratio”…well, it’s the reason why I put those 2 little words in the last post, (orange turd).

I was thiiiiiis close to not doing it, but I knew that the Lon-GI-landers were waiting for it…so I didn’t want to disappoint.

Shameless, I know.

182 comments later….

By Roswell Thrasherfan

February 17, 2008 4:23 PM | Link to this

kracker dont worry i will just have to throw one or two things at him and he will back down soon enough. he already got caught making a comment about the size and weight of perrin and white now that hes been called out he will have to come up with other things to hide behind or back away

By Sara

February 17, 2008 4:28 PM | Link to this

RH You’re right that the ultimate numbers that matter were the 4 and the 1. Like I sid, I wasn’t using it to make it seem like that game wasn’t that bad (because it was).

DE is the most un-biased person I know. And like I said, he had seen it in a totally different game. His theory was the number padding was for the benefit of the fans - to make the team look better in their eyes. And he cited specific examples as the game went on where the Thrashers had just had an obvious shot or two and yet the shot tally didn’t change. It’s the principal of the thing to me. Has no effect on this team or their (lack of) effort. Just crap. I don’t like to think that an arena staff has any right to tinker with numbers.

By R. Stroz

February 17, 2008 4:32 PM | Link to this

you stated that they were lacking size and weight so i simply listed their size and weight compared to other high caliber players.

Roswell Thrasherfan - Are you saying White and Perrin are high caliber players?

Can you answer that question?

By LAC

February 17, 2008 4:39 PM | Link to this

Brendan correct as Always…

I would like to see a BIG Tough Mean defense next season, one that hits the other team and makes it hurt.

Size is a big factor and we are too small and too old… Whan saying that you have to go back to the 5 or is it 6 or 8 year plan.

Simply put… we have good goaltending, but even Patrick Roy cannot stop 40+ shots every night and win on a consistant basis.

Our defense has been BAD from the very start of this team in 1999.

Last season it was fairly good, but Hnidy was let go, what was he +17 last season ? deVries was quite decent but gone, and now we have Klee a real step backwards.

Now we have no offense, how do you win in the NHL with that ?????

In all honest if EVERYONE cannot see how simply AWFUL waddell is, when will they ???

He knows nothing about building a team and with these worthless cheap lying owners… Boy O Boy what do we have to look forward to ?

I thought the friday game was a solid effort, but last night ????

Real NHL teams do not do that…

Once in awhile durring a season, but this team has taken about 10 games off this season and that may well cost them the playoffs…

And one of the Dumb owners said they want progress ????

If waddell worked for me for 8 years and we were in the same boat he’d be gone in a flash… Pro sports is about winning and having The Right people in the Right Job is critical and with waddell we have a guy who has been here way too long and needs to go ASAP.

Let’s hope the liars at ASG wake up and see this,because the product onthe ice this season is NOT close to the excitement we had last season and with waddell at the controls… We are sinking just like the Titanic…

By kracker

February 17, 2008 4:39 PM | Link to this

HAHA RH, that gives me something else to think of when the term ‘Big Orange’ comes up instead of Tennessee football….matter of fact, I think the two fit together rather well.

By Roswell Thrasherfan

February 17, 2008 5:00 PM | Link to this

r.stroz i meant to compare them to the best players at their position which would be the big name free agents and the best defensive forward award winners and since all of them are relatively the same size then i dont see how you can claim they are lacking in weight and size. since i just answered your question why dont you answer mine now as to why you said “White and Perrin are physically exhausted from the prior game because of the size and weight differential they give up”

By R. Stroz

February 17, 2008 5:21 PM | Link to this

Roswell Thrasherfan - I’d understand the terminology just fine.

How about a nice can opener?

You accuse bloggers of being other bloggers but aren’t willing to back up your paranoia with any money.

Apparently, you can’t answer any of the Thrasher related questions.

You don’t know the answers. Just give one or two of the questions a try and then everyone can see if you know your hockey or are nothing more than the Avery, Hollweg, Orr, Simon, Ruutu of the blog, an annoying pest.

Lets review the questions again:

For the fifth time, what is the center’s responsiblity in the defensive zone?

Name the four or five prospects in Chicago which could help the Thrashers in upcoming years. Please leave out the AAAA players.

What is your definition of incremental progress? More than 97 points this season (not going to happen)? One playoff game win? A first round win? What would you give up in prospects and draft picks to get to each stratum?

What’s your theory resulting in the Thrashers poor record in the second game of the back to back games ?

How can you compare White and Perrin to high caliber players? That’s like comparing an apple to a watermelom.

By Roswell Thrasherfan

February 17, 2008 5:32 PM | Link to this

r.stroz the reason why i compared white and perrin to high caliber players was to show that their size was the same which is the reason you said they were hurting the team. now that i answered one of your questions why don’t you answer one of mine. i will let you have your pick. tell us why you think white and perrin are “physically exhausted from the prior game because of the size and weight differential they give up” when they have the same size and weight of the top free agents from last summer and the last 10 top defensive forward award winners. or just simply tell everyone what your hockey playing history consists of. which question will you answer? if you dont answer a question even though i answered one of your i will accept that as a concession that you never played hockey even though you accused others of not understanding the game because they never played

By R. Stroz

February 17, 2008 5:42 PM | Link to this

Roswell Thrasherfan

Maybe I should have prefaced my statement with In my opinion, the reason this team continues to play poorly on the backside of the back-to-back games is two fold:*

1) The smaller faster players (White and Perrin) are physically exhausted from the prior game because of the size and weight differential they give up.

2) The older players (6 players over 34 years of age) are simply older and their bodies don’t rebound from physical exertion as quickly anymore.

What’s you theory for the poor Thrasher performance during the second game of a back to back set of games?

Rawhide - How’s the post count doing? Are we at 200 yet?

kracker - My apologies for any annoyance.

By PJ

February 17, 2008 5:43 PM | Link to this

While the Thrashers sit on their a*******es getting the “rest” they so desparately need, Carolina plays back to back games mon/tue which could potentially put them 6 points up. Futher, Florida and Washington play too and stand to gain points as well. I hope they are thinking about this as they sit on there lazy a*******es and ponder the effort they put into the game last night. Where was their pride? I had to check my remote, they looked like they were moving in slow-motion.

Oh and all except for Kari. While we all debate whether or not we want to keep him, after last nights performance by his teammates I ask you, Why would he want to stay?

Okay Okay, enough of my ranting. Gimme a few days to restore my optimism. Go Thrashers!!

By R. Stroz

February 17, 2008 5:57 PM | Link to this

Roswell Thrasherfan

What makes you think that Briere, Drury or Peca aren’t tired on the second game in a back to back set of games?

if you dont answer a question even though i answered one of your i will accept that as a concession that you never played hockey

If that’s the case, since you have only answered one of seven questions over the past three days, we can all asssume that you have conceded that you never played hockey seven times in three days.

By Roswell Thrasherfan

February 17, 2008 5:58 PM | Link to this

r.stroz you havent answered yet why it is in your opinion that “White and Perrin are physically exhausted from the prior game because of the size and weight differential they give up” why would you hold an opinion that they are lacking in size and weight. what are you basing that opinion on? see you actually have to answer the question not just sidestep it. please answer as to why they are lacking in size and weight

By Roswell Thrasherfan

February 17, 2008 6:06 PM | Link to this

r.stroz if drury, briere and peca are also tired after the 2nd of back to back games then why are you complaining when white and perrin are showing the exact same results as high priced free agents and defensive forward award winners. admit it you opened your mouth and said something that was wrong and no matter how many questions you come up with you are not going to be able to say that white and perrin are lacking in size and weight without every one on this blog knowing that you are wrong. perhaps your lack of hockey experience is showing and you are as scared as a livonia michigan blogger that the truth is being revealed about you. more questions are not going to be able to hide your previous statements

By R. Stroz

February 17, 2008 6:07 PM | Link to this

Roswell Thrasherfan

Smaller players must exert more effort to move and push larger players off the puck.

Is that simple enough for you?

By Rodney King

February 17, 2008 6:11 PM | Link to this

Can’t we all just get along?

By Roswell Thrasherfan

February 17, 2008 6:12 PM | Link to this

“we can all asssume that you have conceded that you never played hockey seven times in three days”

r.stroz i never played hockey more than twice a day back when i used to play so i will flat out concede right now that i never played hockey 7 times in 3 days.
here let me help you with your next reply:

i r.stroz believe that todd white and eric perrin are lacking in size and weight because _

By R. Stroz

February 17, 2008 6:14 PM | Link to this

you are not going to be able to say that white and perrin are lacking in size and weight without every one on this blog knowing that you are wrong.

Everyone please chime in. Share your opinion

By Nascar Girl

February 17, 2008 6:21 PM | Link to this

Oh Boys, Boys, Let me settle this for ya right now,

Size DOES matter.

By R. Stroz

February 17, 2008 6:21 PM | Link to this

Rawhide - Would you please organize a charity event where Roswell Thrasherfan and I can drop the gloves, with all procedes going toward travel expenses for the junior teams in Kennesaw and Gwinnett.

By Rawhide

February 17, 2008 6:22 PM | Link to this

eating popcorn…sipping coca-cola

Oh no…munch, munch…you two go right ahead…sip, sip…don’t let us interupt!

By kracker

February 17, 2008 6:23 PM | Link to this

R. Stroz Oh, no, there is little annoyance to me, this is a blog…the cyber version of the olde west main street shootout. You and Roswell Thrasherfan have at it and may the best blogger win :) I just don’t personally have the time to follow it and grade the contest.

PJ Great question about Kari “Why would he want to stay?” I personally think he owes the organization a healthy year, maybe two, as an RFA, just to be fair to the city and fans because of his groin-related failures. In that time he can see if the team management gets it’s act together and if he wishes to compete a Thrasher.

By Roswell Thrasherfan

February 17, 2008 6:30 PM | Link to this

“Everyone please chime in. Share your opinion”

since you want us to chime in r.stroz and share our opinions here is what i think. when looking at the size and weight of the three big free agents from last summer who hossa wanted us to go after and as well looking at the size and weight of every defensive forward of the year from the last ten years white and perrin are virtually the same size and weight as those players so i dont see how you can say that white and perrin are lacking in size and weight

By off the post

February 17, 2008 6:37 PM | Link to this

Rawhide - Would you please organize a charity event where Roswell Thrasherfan and I can drop the gloves, with all procedes going toward travel expenses for the junior teams in Kennesaw and Gwinnett.

I say we make the charity event a skating contest as previously mentioned. The winner can take on Fred. I would pay good money to see that. Rawhide can sell the tickets. Who else would like to see that and buy a ticket? Stroz, Ros T-fan, are you guys up for it?

By Roswell Thrasherfan

February 17, 2008 6:40 PM | Link to this

off the post count me in

By R. Stroz

February 17, 2008 6:51 PM | Link to this

Roswell Thrasherfan

Once again, the point is White and Perrin exert more energy to move larger centers off the puck; and, in the second game of a back to back set of games, they have considerably less energy to move the other team’s “fresh” centers off the puck.

Now Roswell Thrasherfan try your luck at answering the rest of the questions posed to your narrowly focused mind:

For the sixth time, what is the center’s responsiblity in the defensive zone?

Name the four or five prospects in Chicago which could help the Thrashers in upcoming years. Please leave out the AAAA players.

What is your definition of incremental progress? More than 97 points this season (not going to happen)? One playoff game win? A first round win? What would you give up in prospects and draft picks to get to each stratum?

What’s your theory resulting in the Thrashers poor record in the second game of the back to back games ?

If you are unable to answer the questions, we will all assume you have never played hockey and you are DW’s boyfriend.

By R. Stroz

February 17, 2008 6:57 PM | Link to this

off the post - I’m in as long as we get to drop the gloves as well.

By PJ

February 17, 2008 7:19 PM | Link to this

Stats Thanks for providing that information about Kari. Please chime in with more stats, Stats.

Kracker I agree. We’ll wait and see what happens. I mostly needed to vent earlier.

Rawhide Do Something!

By Rawhide

February 17, 2008 7:22 PM | Link to this

Rstroz - “I’m in as long as we get to drop the gloves as well”.

Violence? I hate violence. I deplore violence. If there is one thing I cannot stand, its violence…PULL!!

Fan wearing NYI jersey is catapulted through the air…I raise my skeet rifle…

BANG!!

Islander fan screams, falls to ground…

Dropped like a stone.

By Roswell Thrasherfan

February 17, 2008 7:42 PM | Link to this

“Once again, the point is White and Perrin exert more energy to move larger centers off the puck”

again you avoid the question because white and perrin are not smaller and yes i am more than willing to drop the gloves. i have put up the size and weight of high caliber centers in the nhl and they are not in a separate class of size and weight from perrin and white. if you are complaining that white and perrin are playing against fresh centers in the second game of two nights in a row they would have to do that if they were Zdeno Charas size so again you failed to prove that white and perrin are smaller and that it is a problem. who are all these other larger centers that you fear so much? quick think of ten other questions to ask so you dont have to admit that white and perrin are nhl size players and you dont know what you are talking about when it comes to size.

By Jethro

February 17, 2008 8:05 PM | Link to this

Stroz, it took you all day to figure out that moron is a short feller with uh complex.

By Rawhide

February 17, 2008 8:13 PM | Link to this

OK you two…play nice or I’m going to turn this blog around and go home!!

By Jethro

February 17, 2008 8:14 PM | Link to this

Hey RT why dont you answer sum of the manz questions and put uh end to this debate?

By R. Stroz

February 17, 2008 9:07 PM | Link to this

Roswell Thrasherfan - Why do I need to think of ten new questions, when you can’t answer the seven old questions?

white and perrin are nhl size players and you dont know what you are talking about when it comes to size.

Are you kidding?

Since you like lists, what are the height and weight of the other Southeast Conference centers? How many are shorter than 5’ 11” and weigh less than 195 pounds?

By Roswell Thrasherfan

February 17, 2008 9:11 PM | Link to this

“Stroz, it took you all day to figure out that moron is a short feller with uh complex.”

rawhide thank you for removing that post where stroz used that foul language and called me those unnecessary names. unfortunately you left a post up above by someone named jethro that still refers to it

By Rawhide

February 17, 2008 9:25 PM | Link to this

Sure thing…healthy debate is all good…but there are ladies and youngsters that frequent the blog.

Try to keep in mind gentlemen that although we may disagree or see things from a different perspective regarding what is, or isn’t, the main problem with the team…and what may, or may not, be the answers…we all are Thrashers fans and we want are team to do well.

Now, have at it…but let’s not make it personal.

By R. Stroz

February 17, 2008 9:36 PM | Link to this

Roswell Thrasherfan - You whine more than Cindy Crosby and Daniel Briere put together.

By Roswell Thrasherfan

February 17, 2008 9:41 PM | Link to this

thats ok rawhide its not your fault that you are getting some carryover of classless fans from the falcons blog. they will go away once a story breaks about the third string punter from a local high school

By R. Stroz

February 17, 2008 9:52 PM | Link to this

Roswell Thrasherfan - Have any answers to the Thrasher* questions yet? Try something original this time, like answering a few of them.

I’m here to stay whether it’s football or baseball season.

By the way, if you’re calling me classless, I’ll take that as a compliment.

By Alan

February 17, 2008 10:00 PM | Link to this

The Internet: The only place you can go to see grown men act like children.

Knock it off, will ya? Geez.

By Roswell Thrasherfan

February 17, 2008 10:15 PM | Link to this

don’t worry alan rawhide is deleting his childish posts now so we wont have to worry anymore about him. now that we know what we are all made of the rest of us can get on with some good hockey talk that isnt at the level of pucksnsnot

By R. Stroz

February 17, 2008 11:34 PM | Link to this

Roswell Thrasherfan - You still have no answers to the hockey questions listed above.

Childish comments? You are the same paranoid blogger that thought Brian is Bob, I’m Bob, and we’re all in on the joke. Your quote from the other day:

i think bob and brian are the same guy. brian isn’t even on the blog anymore, it is only bob that refers to him. rstroz is probably in on the joke, he never referred to him before yet all of a sudden they are drinking buddies that go to games together? brian probably doesn’t even exist otherwise we would’ve heard about him earlier. my money is that we suddenly get a post from brian and he somehow refers to bob, but they never blog at the sametime.

At this point, it is painfully obvious you don’t know the answers to the hockey questions. So, for the benefit of everyone else, I will stop responding to you and your paranoid delusions, since there is no purpose in doing so.

If you ever attend a game in person, please let me know so I can have the pleasure of meeting you face to face, unless of course Rawhide is able to set up a nice charity fundraiser before then.

Alan - My apologies.

By Alan

February 18, 2008 12:00 AM | Link to this

I didn’t mean just you, Stroz, I meant this whole debacle. I think we should all just start over from the beginning and really let bygones be bygones at this point. The argumentativeness is insane, especially over little things like the size of our centers compared to the rest of the league, much less the southeast division.

Last night’s game sucked complete and unadulterated a*. Hell, despite the shot discrepancy mentioned on the television feed, we still shot the puck more in Buffalo when we were smashed, crashed, and beaten into an oblivion with that 10-1 loss. I think we can all agree that our team, sans Kari, didn’t even bother to get off the charter jet.

By Brendan

February 18, 2008 2:57 AM | Link to this

Alan, “On the Fly” analyst Neil Smith, who is almost always very kind to the Thrashers, declared us “mentally unprepared to play” against the Islanders. Smith didn’t just single out the Thrashers, he also talked about how the Sabres laid an egg against the Rangers. And how certain Western Conference teams in tight playoff races “flat didn’t show up” for certain games over the weekend.

On one hand, this is why it’s an 82-game season. But it’s a little easier to swallow such games in October and November. But now that there isn’t as much time to go correct things, any blown games are amplified that much more. It’s going to be hard enough to get the points we need to win this division and/or to make the playoffs as it is, without taking nights off as well.

PJ, you’ve touch on a point with Kari Lehtonen. Why would he want to stay? Well, he did buy a house here after last season. Perhaps that was a TAX DECISION, but perhaps it was also because he thinks he’ll be here a while? That said, I wouldn’t think Kari would reject affixing his name to an RFA offer sheet, if he liked the offer. Call me crazy, but I think Kari likes facing a “decent” amount of shots. It keeps him in the game to be constantly touching the puck. Goalies are FOREVER saying, “It’s tough when you don’t get many shots. You lose the feel of the game. Then someone says, ‘you only faced six shots in the second period, but you let two in.’” I’m not sure Kari wants to face “40” shots a night. Perhaps Kari likes “30 or so” shots a night, to help maintain his mental focus. Well, if ANY of that is true, then I should think he’d quite LIKE IT here in Atlanta!

By Stats

February 18, 2008 8:38 AM | Link to this

I go to Church for one evening and look what happens….

Back to stats -

BoldLAC ItalicSimply put… we have good goaltending, but even Patrick Roy cannot stop 40+ shots every night and win on a consistant basis.

Great point, in his last 5 seasons at COL (which include the Stanley Cup season and his MVP season), Roy saw an average of only 25.8 shots/game.

His last season at MON he saw 31 shots/game and a very pedestrial .906 SV % AND OF 2.97.

By the way,

By Stats

February 18, 2008 8:44 AM | Link to this

Sorry for the typos in the last post - I have a habit of hitting the post button.

The last line should read:

His last season at MON he saw 31 shots/game and a very pedestrian .906 SV % and a GAA of 2.97.

I think you got the point anyway.

I am not trying to be a KL apologist. I just think that it is very knee-jerk reaction to always yell at the Goalie (like yelling at a QB in football). Most of the time, it is a deeper issue. Stats tend to be objective.

Brendan & R.Stroz - I am trying to work up something to your points about wearing down over the course of a game or back to back games.

By Stats

February 18, 2008 9:12 AM | Link to this

Rawhide

Can’t remember the last time, when Kari had an “off” night, the offense stepped up and won a game 5-4…

I found it. Defining an “off night” as one in which KL fails to save at least .900%, the last time he did so and still earned a win was (hold your seat) January 26, 2007 in a 5-4 OT victory against the NYI. In that game he only stopped 29 of 33 shots (still not a bad line) for a SV % of .879.

By Rawhide

February 18, 2008 9:20 AM | Link to this

Stats - points well taken….the only thing I would add to that is the observation that Roy played prior to the lockout and new CBA. Thus, he, and other goalies, faced less shots as the league had yet to adopt it’s newer, “wide open”, style of play.

Goalies today face more shots…thus we have to expect hight GAAs.

However….even in today’s NHL, facing shot counts in the hig 30s and even into the 40s is too much.

As for Roy’s last season stats…we can compare those with Kari’s .918 SV% and 2.76 GAA given the fact that the D allows 33.2 shots to get through….

As for needing to go back 13 months to find a game in which the offense covered for Kari…I think that speaks volumes.

By Brendan

February 18, 2008 9:33 AM | Link to this

I wonder if, in KL’s mind, he’s thinking, “I’ve got to win at least one playoff game for Atlanta before I leave here.” It’d be nice if that were running through his “cabeza.”

I’m sure that Kari would like to exorcise some of his playoff demons. Which ones? The 11 goals in two (2) playoff games. The 0-2 record. The 5.59 GAA. And the save percentage of .849. Now, a LOT of that reflects a 7-0 pasting in Game Three. It was thee worst single-game playoff loss of the 2007 Playoffs. The next worst was a 5-0 throttling of the eventual Stanley Cup Champions, the Anaheim Ducks, by the Detroit Red Wings, in Game Three, of the Western Conference Finals. But the point remains … KL has a lot to prove to his critics and to the GM who drafted him 2nd overall. Yes, he also has something to prove to the NHL’s “central scouting” department, who considered him as the top goaltender prospect in 2002. You’ll all recall that goaltender Cam Ward, selected 25th overall, by Carolina in 2002, brought home a Stanley Cup and the Conn Smythe Trophy in 2006.

By Bob

February 18, 2008 10:02 AM | Link to this

brendan, i think Kari would want to stay, he’s a single guy, apparently likes the nightlife and the ladies, and this town has plenty going for it in the women department.

Roswell Thrasherfan, you are clueless if you don’t understand that White and Perrin are undersized centers in this league, a guy like Drury or Gomez can get away with being small as they have such great skills.

By Stats

February 18, 2008 10:07 AM | Link to this

Ok, enough goalie talk.

Brendan and R. Stroz - here are some #s for you. I am not drawing any conclusions, just presenting information.

Scoring by period -

ATL 44/50/57 OPP 50/73/68

White points by period: 10/8/14

Perrin points by period: 6/16/12

Team shots per period coming. I have a 10:00 meeting. Stupid job.

By Stats

February 18, 2008 10:57 AM | Link to this

Brendan,

The other thing you wanted was shots per period -

Here it is:

499/530/490

For some crazy reason, I cannot find shots allowed per period.

The conclusion I would draw from my last two posts is that Brendan & R Stroz have a point. ATL seems to start tough, but lose ground as the game goes on. The 3rd period shots & goals are probably a little inflated both for and against due to pulled goalies.

By Smoothie

February 18, 2008 11:15 AM | Link to this

Since we are doing period by period analysis of our beloved losers, has anyone noticed the possible correlation between our dreadful 2nd period play at home and the fact our bench is opposite our defensive zone in that period? We seem to really struggle with line changes when we can’t dump the puck from the red line and change behind the play. Since we typically are lacking the forechecking dept and we never seem to maintain sustained pressure, it’s really tough for our defensemen to change during an offensive play eventhough the bench is right at the blueline in the 2nd period. Either that or we just suck at making line changes…which may not be too far from the truth!

By Nikita

February 18, 2008 11:57 AM | Link to this

…White and Perrin are undersized centers in this league, a guy like Drury or Gomez can get away with being small as they have such great skills.

Nods. They’re TINY by league standards, which wouldn’t be an issue (I think their skills are perfectly adequate, usually — and the center is usually the small guy) except that the entire team is comparatively small. Recchi, Enstrom, Perrin, White, Slater, etc. It’s really not a huge deal to be under 6 feet and 200 pounds…except that almost the entire team is under 6 feet and 200 pounds, and those that aren’t are old, or goons. Generalizing, of course, and excluding the stars. The team needs to be younger and larger overall, such that other teams are physically intimidated and physically restrained from bashing the Thrash to death. (Which is what seems to happen.) The difference is evident when we play teams with large, physical, young, energetic lines — particularly when their forwards and centers are large.

The flipside of this is that Atlanta could really rely on quickness, since most of our smaller players are also fast and crafty.

Interesting comment, Smoothie — I think we suck at line changes. We also switch our lines and double- and triple-shift certain players such that our line changes are mentally taxing, and so is the general scheme of play. Some of the Thrashers really don’t have a feel for each other, and that’s probably why. I’d like to see the coaching staff define the lines more carefully (our lone goal the other night was on a wierdly combined multiline force), and maintain the lines.

Also, when you look at some of the other teams, you see what the purpose of each of their lines are. I can’t tell what we’re trying to accomplish with our 1st and 2nd lines — other than getting Kovy the puck, which is not a diversified enough strategy.

By Tim

February 18, 2008 12:20 PM | Link to this

Brendan, I would say it’s not too bad when you get a .849 after allowing 11 goals in 2 playoff games. Let hope he will get better this season :)

By timmythebrave

February 18, 2008 1:22 PM | Link to this

carolina losing 2 to 0 early on to nj

By Brendan

February 18, 2008 1:25 PM | Link to this

Tim, A-men!!

Still, what goaltender proudly boasts, “I’ve got an .849 save playoff save percentage.” It’s the sort of comment you might hear from someon waiting on the Unemployment line.

Hey look, it’s 2-0, Devils over Carolina, midway through the 1st period. Let’s go Devils!!! Don’t let the ‘Canes take this thing to overtime.

By Brendan

February 18, 2008 1:32 PM | Link to this

Did you just see that pad save by Brodeur! Awesome! Then the Devils came down and cranked it off the post! This is a good game. If you’ve got Center Ice, I hope you’re watching.

By Jim_Bob

February 18, 2008 1:48 PM | Link to this

Howdy there Rawhide and Jethro! How you fellers doin today?

Does this Brendan feller have a job? Or does he just live hockey all day every day? Just wonderin, cuz that there feller makes ole Jim Bob scratch his head.

Has that Waddel feller made any deals yet?

I heard that feller that shoots the “knucklepuck” is available from the Mighty Ducks, but I don’t know if that Estevez feller is willing to part with their offensive leader yet.

Oh well, we’ll see I reckon…

By Alan

February 18, 2008 2:06 PM | Link to this

I have a job, but I live hockey. I’m usually looking for ways to occupy my time in the hockey offseason, and I usually spend most of the time I’m not at work playing NHL games on my computer.

In my fantasy computerized world, the Thrashers won the cup in ‘07.

By Brendan

February 18, 2008 2:11 PM | Link to this

I have today off. :) It’s 3-1, New Jersey over Carolina, 2nd period. I’m going to have tape the rest of it, however. Go Devils!