AJC > Sports Thrashers > Blog > Archives > 2007 > November > 15 > Entry
DEL.ICIO.USHHoF, Carolina and Apple Carts
The Atlanta Journal-Constitution
Ron, Scott, Al and Mark
If you will allow me to step away from my regular Thrashers Blog gig for a moment, I would like to pay homage to the four NHL players who were inducted into the Hockey Hall of Fame in Toronto earlier this week, (along with executive Jim Gregory). One could write pages upon pages on each one these great players but I’ll try to keep it to a minimum:
Ron Francis: He emulated class on the ice as much as anyone. Winner of two cups in Pittsburgh and captained a Carolina team to the finals in ’02. He finished with 1,249 assists, (2nd to Gretzky).
Scott Stevens: The player who defined “two way defender” more then anyone else. His 1,635 career games are the most ever by a defenseman. He lifted the cup 3 times and was an All Star 13 times in his 23-year stint in the NHL.
Al McInnis: The Nova Scotia native who played 23 years with St. Luis and Calgary. He won not only a championship with Calgary in ’89 but also the Conn Smythe Trophy that year as well. His slap shot was howitzer-esque. He trails only Ray Borque and Paul Coffey in scoring by defenders.
Mark Messier: Part of that unbelievable Edmonton team of the 1980s with Wayne Gretzky, Paul Coffey, Grant Fuhr and Jari Kurri. He won 6 cups overall, appeared in 15 All Star games and finished with 1,887 regular-season points, (second only to The Great One).
Combined they won 12 Stanley Cup Championships and account for countless memories and stories by hockey fans too great in number to count. Though their playing styles differed and their paths divergent, they landed in the same spot on the same night, the Hockey Hall of Fame.
Those four would be a nice start to any all-time fantasy team, eh?
Going to Carolina
The Thrashers enter Friday night’s game in Carolina 9 points behind the Southeast Division leaders. Now I have looked at this from all angles and scenarios, crunched the numbers with a calculator, slide rule and #2 pencil. I have endless printouts of spreadsheets, researched the files and data banks of the NHL, scoured advanced math books ad nauseam and I have come to the following conclusion:
Winning and being 7 points out of first is much better then losing and being 11 points off the lead.
Where else are you going to get this type of in-depth analysis?
Furthermore, (oops, sorry…I used one of the un-good words), any points will guarantee that Atlanta gains a majority of the 16 points available during this 8 game stint against division foes. A win will mean that when we amass in Blueland on Monday the Thrashers will be able to pull to .500 on the season with a victory on that night. Not bad considering the start to the season. And a successful game against the Hurricanes will give the Thrashers a winning record in our division and the two points would continue our assent up the conference standings as well.
So, any way you slice it, dice it, chop, mince or puree` it, these are two big, fat hairy points out there.
Upset the Apple Cart - NOT!
As Craig Custance reported, Don Waddell has made it clear that a new coach will not come from outside of the organization. I don’t think this will come a shock to anyone seeing how the Thrashers have played 12 games since Bob Hartley was released a month ago, going 8-4.
Given the fact that the team has played well during that time and bringing in someone new, possibly with a new style and philosophy might “upset the apple cart”, the general manager has ended any speculation of it. He also indicated that his future is not behind the bench. So I would speculate that we should soon hear that Brad McCrimmon is being placed into the head coaching position, possibly this weekend is my opinion.
Another possible reason for this decision is that the team will still pay Bob Hartley’s contract for this season and next, if I understand it correctly. Promoting McCrimmon relieves the added cost of bringing in someone else.
When Coach Hartley was released I commented that I would opine as to if it was the right thing to do or not once we learned who would take his place. Given the way the team has played over the past month with McCrimmon leading the practices as well as serving in some capacities as the head coach, and the fact that there is no smoother coaching transition imaginable, I would welcome the news.
At least it makes logical sense.
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Comments
Commenting is now closed for this entry.
By theratio
November 15, 2007 1:47 PM | Link to this
First? Oh yeah.
By ranallo10
November 15, 2007 2:20 PM | Link to this
I’m fine with the decision, we’ll see how things work out.
By Russian
November 15, 2007 2:51 PM | Link to this
We need to win this game in Carolina. We need to win this game in Regulation Time. We need to win this game to get two points in our statts. We need to win this game (last time) because I made a bet (6 beers plus Stolichnaya) with my friend from Carolina. Come Thrasher bring me to my DRINK!!!!
By Alan
November 15, 2007 4:49 PM | Link to this
I like the way Russian thinks. Alcohol for everyone!
By Snoman
November 15, 2007 5:14 PM | Link to this
Russian, I love it when a someone has a purpose behind their fandom and is willing to back it up!! Go Thrashers!!
By Tony C.
November 15, 2007 6:19 PM | Link to this
yall’re just jealous you settled for beer only.
By Sam
November 15, 2007 7:24 PM | Link to this
The way the Lightning pounded the Canes last night makes a Thrasher fan quite optimistic. If you watched the game on Center Ice last night, you saw that look on the Canes bench after the last fight (Janik & Adams) and it was priceless. They were beaten both by goals and fisticuffs. They just aren’t going to rebound that fast. Maybe Kovy can match Vinny’s 5 point night. That was a thing to see.
By kracker
November 15, 2007 7:26 PM | Link to this
I’m going to use all my contacts (0) to get word of Russian’s bet to the Thrashers’ locker room. I think they will play harder knowing there is more than just some division points at stake in this game.
By AL
November 16, 2007 8:17 AM | Link to this
I believe that Carolina (coming off a loss) has outscored their opponents 21-12. The last time they came off a loss, they kicked the crap out of us! I’m NOT very optimistic. We HAVE TO HAVE these 2 extremely important points!
By puckjunque
November 16, 2007 9:07 AM | Link to this
Hey Y’all, thought it would be a GOOD idea to post the prayer early today, we really need this win.
Bow your heads, hands joined on keyboards
Oh Heavenly Father, Thank you for listening to our prayers and answering them so swiftly. The Thrashers have improved greatly through your guidance but will need even more to win tonight. Please help our goalie stop every puck that comes his way, inspire the team to SHOOT the puck and score goals, lead them to victory and kicking some carolina a$$! AMEN!!
By Brian
November 16, 2007 9:18 AM | Link to this
puckjunque - let us reply
By Rawhide
November 16, 2007 9:30 AM | Link to this
A-FREAKIN’-MEN!!! Great prayer, PJ!!!!
Now, let’s go downgrade Carolina to a Tropical Storm!!
By ranallo10
November 16, 2007 10:30 AM | Link to this
Has anyone heard a sillier nickname than “Caniacs”? During the TB vs CAR game I heard one advertisement refer to the fans as “Caniacs”…I couldn’t keep myself from laughing.
By Rawhide
November 16, 2007 10:40 AM | Link to this
Ranallo - Maybe we should call them Candie Canes…
By Brian
November 16, 2007 10:48 AM | Link to this
Rawhide - why, because they suck?
By ranallo10
November 16, 2007 10:49 AM | Link to this
I’m much more comfortable with that nickname.
By Rawhide
November 16, 2007 11:17 AM | Link to this
“Caniacs” - It’s not even origional. People have been referring to those who live in Maine as “Mainiacs” for decades!
By Rawhide
November 16, 2007 11:20 AM | Link to this
BRIAN - Exactly!! LOL!
By Jarndyce
November 16, 2007 12:11 PM | Link to this
Nice summary of the HoF class. I heard that when Ronnie Franchise was walking away from the podium, he saw Scott Stevens and fell hard to the stage, then crawled, stumbled, wobbled, and splayed his way back to a seat in the fourth row while he family and friends tried desperately to help him to his proper seat in the front row.
By Brian
November 16, 2007 12:35 PM | Link to this
Rawhide - sorry, but with you I have to ask. Stroz told me you picked that nickname because they have red & white uniforms…
By R. Stroz
November 16, 2007 1:04 PM | Link to this
Here’s hoping the Thrashers lick those Candie Canes like the Bolts did earlier in the week.
If the Thrashers win, we can call them Candie A*******e$.
By Brian
November 16, 2007 1:08 PM | Link to this
Rawhide - Furthermore, candy canes don’t suck, they get sucked. Please don’t insinuate that the Thrashers are going to Raleigh tonight and the ‘Canes are going to get sucked. I think you watched that LC video too many times :)
By Rawhide
November 16, 2007 1:09 PM | Link to this
BRIAN - Sure,..blame it on RStroz! HA!
No,….I picked that name because I knw someone would put another “word” in between CANDY and CANES!!! But I didn’t want to be the one who stooped to that level….. :o)=)
And, I see that RStroz came through for me!!!! LOL!
JARNDYCE - That’s hysterical!!!!
By R. Stroz
November 16, 2007 1:12 PM | Link to this
Rawhide - Someone had to take the bait!
By Brian
November 16, 2007 1:12 PM | Link to this
Stroz - now you too?!?!?! NEW BLOG! NEW BLOG!!!
By R. Stroz
November 16, 2007 1:32 PM | Link to this
Rawhide - Short people don’t have to stoop.
By ranallo10
November 16, 2007 1:47 PM | Link to this
Speaking of sucking…where’s Buzilla?
By R. Stroz
November 16, 2007 1:50 PM | Link to this
Oh no, where did he go, go go Buzilla
By Rawhide
November 16, 2007 2:24 PM | Link to this
Here is an interesting article fron the NYSUN regarding NHL expansion in LV and KC.
(I hope I don’t screw up the “link formula”)…
No? OK, good….anyway, if they WERE to add two teams, I would like to see the league go back to 4 divisions, (each w/ 8 teams) using the P.A.N.S names and Whales and Campbell Conferences.
There is just something SOOOooooo “hockey” about that!
By ranallo10
November 16, 2007 2:33 PM | Link to this
Bettman and the league are pleased with just getting the network off the ground, and will take carriage wherever it can find a willing cable operator. That was the stance the commissioner of the NBA, David Stern, took with NBATV, and if it meant going onto a digital sports tier, then it was on a digital sports tier.
That’s where the problem seems to arise…
By ranallo10
November 16, 2007 2:40 PM | Link to this
I hated the Whales and Campbell terms, it didn’t help us young fellas learning the game know where the teams played. East and West is working fine. Southeast and Northeast is fine too. But that’s my opinion on it (I’m such a rebellious young whippersnapper).
However, I’d love an equal division conference of two more teams. If Canada got one more team (to please the Canadians), and Las Vegas got the other, the East/West could easily be balanced with Nashville and Detroit/Columbus coming to the Eastern conference, and the other teams going to the West.
I’d like more parity in the divisions, since parity in the teams is becoming more apparent.
By Brian
November 16, 2007 2:54 PM | Link to this
The best thing about having 2 more teams is that it would get rid of the current schedule format we have right now (each division rival played 4 times home and 4 times away). Part of the reason we have that schedule isn’t so much that we play division rivals more, but it’s because you play each team in a given division the same amount of times. If you have more teams, you would be forced to take away games played against your own division and play against other teams. OR, there would be more teams in each division, so instead of playing Fla or TB 8 times, you only play them six times even though you have the same amount of division games.
P.S. A team in the central time zone (i.e. Nashville) is not coming east.
By ranallo10
November 16, 2007 3:04 PM | Link to this
Brian — Thanks, I forgot that. Then it’s quite simple to move Columbus and Detroit, and keep Nashville in the West.
EST teams shouldn’t be playing against PST teams with regularity. It’s bad for the players and bad for the fans. Detroit is one of the only teams that can truly profit from that sort of scheduling problem.
By Rawhide
November 16, 2007 3:31 PM | Link to this
Even if Nashville is in the Central TZ,…it would make sense to move them to the SE division if, say, a Florida goes to KC.
KC in the central division w/ StL & Nashville 3-1/2 hours from Atlanta?
It makes as much sense as Phoenix and Dallas being in the Pacific Division.
By ranallo10
November 16, 2007 3:41 PM | Link to this
HEYYY MACARENA!
By Rawhide
November 16, 2007 3:49 PM | Link to this
Ranallo started the weekend drinking early….
Anyway,…..just for giggles, even if it were just a straight expansion type situation….going to the 4 divisions could look something like this:
PATRICK: NYI, NYR, NJ, BOS, BUFF, MTL, OTT & Tor
ADAMS: ATL, TB, FLA, NASH, CAR, WASH, PITT & PHIL
NORRIS: CHI, DET, MINN, STL, KC, WINNIPEG, DAL & CLB.
SMYTHE: LA, ANA, SJ, PHO, VAN, CLG, EDM & COL.
By Brian
November 16, 2007 3:51 PM | Link to this
Rawhide - would you like to play in Vancouver, Edmonton, San Jose, etc. twice a year? Because that’s what Columbus has to do. Nashville is staying in their time zone, so they are staying in the west. It makes much more sense than to have Columbus in the west.
By Rawhide
November 16, 2007 4:04 PM | Link to this
BRIAN - Your getting too hung up on the central vs. eastern time zone.
If you look at a map, even though Columbus is in the eastern TZ, it’s close to Vancouver, Edmonton, Calgary, Minnesota, Detroit, & Chicago, (and Winnepeg should they get a team),.then Nashville is.
Nashville is far closer to Atlanta, carolina, TB, & Florida then is Columbus.
There really is no 100% way to totally deal with the “east” vs. “west” issue given that there are so many teams east of the Mississippi.
But if you try to regionalize things as I did above with 4 division, you get more cities close together to form rivalries.
By ranallo10
November 16, 2007 4:11 PM | Link to this
Rename those conferences to important players from each area:
Messier (NYR years) or Roy (MTL years) instead of Patrick.
Gretzky (LA/EDM years) or Messier (EDM) instead of Smythe.
Lemieux instead of Adams.
Yzerman instead of Norris.
Just an idea.
By Rawhide
November 16, 2007 4:15 PM | Link to this
RANALLO - I like that idea. You get pretty smart after you’ve had a few…
By ranallo10
November 16, 2007 4:24 PM | Link to this
I hate to snub Roy or Messier, but that’s the only way it’d work out with your team configuration. Especially since his HOF uniform is NYR, Messier would be my call for that grouping. Unfortunately one of the two greats would miss out.
Any players of SIGNIFICANT impact that I didn’t think of? I’m thinking 90s and beyond. Bourque comes to mind, but doesn’t beat out his competitors in the Smythe or Patrick running (Gretzky and Messier/Roy). Macinnis doesn’t beat out Yzerman for the Norris.
I like this one (though it’s my own idea).
By ranallo10
November 16, 2007 4:33 PM | Link to this
As a fact of matter occifer, I had only ti martwonis…
By Brian
November 16, 2007 5:42 PM | Link to this
Rawhide - how many times does Atlanta go to the west coast to play SJ, Ana, LA, etc. this year? Columbus has to do it twice for each team. It ain’t gonna happen. You really think the hockey gods in Toronto are sitting around their club right now saying gee, if only we can get that Nashville-Atlanta rivalry going, we can get that lucrative contract with ESPN? You are showing your bias. How close is Columbus to Pittsburgh, Buffalo, etc? How about moving Detroit near Buffalo and Toronto?
By ranallo10
November 16, 2007 5:47 PM | Link to this
Brian — Don’t be angry just because it’s not your idea…
By Brian
November 16, 2007 7:04 PM | Link to this
ranollo - why would I be angry over an idea that I know won’t fly? Look at how upset people here get upset over not watching a game, or if the game starts at 7:30pm instead of 7:00pm. Now think how it must feel to be Columbus when 50% of your away games start at 9:00pm or 10:00pm. Who’s going to be happy with that? Does anyone here want to watch a Thrashers game with a 10:00pm start time? I didn’t think so…
By Tony C.
November 16, 2007 9:09 PM | Link to this
mY $0.02:
No way does Messier’s accomplishments (yes they are staggering, BUT…)outweigh Conny Smythe’s.
Smythe basically forced the creation of the “modern” NHL after bringing his Toronto squad down to the US, playing against Princeton, Harvard, BC the Detroit club (can’t remember the original name) et. al., those “barnstorming” tours were directly responsible for the creation of the NYR franchise, which led to the league being able to generate US revenue/publicity, and eventually the expansion of the league.
I’m sure somebody else has a better sense of history, but my point is: Messier & Roy are badass, but not nearly as important to the creation and expansion of the league-that’s why Smythe & Norris were chosen over say, Richard & Howe.
By R. Stroz
November 16, 2007 9:27 PM | Link to this
puckjunque - AMEN! AMEN! AMEN!
By Tony C.
November 16, 2007 9:28 PM | Link to this
oh yeah;
GREAT game by Moose tonight, Hoss was player of the game but if Hedberg didn’t get 2nd star, somebody in Raleigh should get their eyes checked.
Once again, our boys got the lead and held it!!! Looking pretty good, and making up ground against the division. Sweet!
GO BLUE !!!
By stendec
November 16, 2007 9:40 PM | Link to this
THE MOOSE WAS LOOSE! Two first period goals then an empty netter. Moose only needed one. Hitch reins to Moose and Kid. Deal KL NOW while he still has some value. So proud of defensive effort. Looked a lot like last season. way to go guys. GO BLUE!
By PJ
November 16, 2007 9:43 PM | Link to this
Oh Yea! Snoopy Dance!
By kracker
November 16, 2007 10:00 PM | Link to this
3pts hossa, 2 pts kovy, 2 pts white, 1 pt enstrom - 7 pts for big line, 1 pt enstrom 17, 18, 28, 39 - all +3 12 - +2 16 - +1 moose 1st shut out, 11 for his career 18 pts for the Thrash! 3 stars: 1. ATL R 18 M.HOSSA 2. ATL G 1 J.HEDBERG 3. ATL C 12 T.WHITE
Next game is on VS Monday at home against Bolts, I am going
By kracker
November 16, 2007 10:04 PM | Link to this
The text formatting sucks on this site.
By Brian
November 16, 2007 10:16 PM | Link to this
Tony C (& ranollo) - ok, the Detroit club and the Chicago Blackhawks were sort of continuations of Canadian teams from the folded WHL, but the NHL doesn’t claim them to be the same teams, just the same players. Whereas the WHA teams (Edmonton Oilers, Hartford Whalers, Winnipeg Jets & Quebec Nordiques) are considered the same teams (Wayne Gretzky scored 137 points his first year in the NHL, but did not win the Calder trophy because Edmonton was in the WHA the year earlier). But, their stats didn’t carry over (which still bothers Gordie Howe to this day because all his WHA goals don’t count in his career totals and thus he is not the career goal leader).
As for the more recent names being honored, there was a push recently to do that with the NHL awards. Why have the Jack Adams trophy when you can have the Scotty Bowman trophy and have Scotty award it himself? But that stuff always gets shot down in the end…
HOSSA IS BACK!!!
By Rawhide
November 16, 2007 10:49 PM | Link to this
&%$#@! - Out shot again!!!
By Brian
November 16, 2007 11:12 PM | Link to this
rawhide - would you rather outshoot them and lose 0-3? They don’t award the Stanley Cup to the team that takes the most shots. If we are losing, then we can worry about stats like that. When we are 9-4 since the change, take the points and look towards the next opponent.
By ranallo10
November 16, 2007 11:20 PM | Link to this
Brian and Tony C. — I agree that the trophies should honor the players like Smythe and Adams, etc. Those names are integral to the success of the modern NHL, in that they helped lay the foundations.
Tony, my idea hinges more on the thought that if you’re going to rename the conferences, why not update those names to more recognizable and relate-able players such as the recent greats? Smythe etc are greats in their own right, but they are being honored elsewhere. The division name should be something relatively recognizable (in my opinion), and I think Gretzky is more recognizable to a young fan than Smythe is.
I do however prefer the directions, as it’s more obvious.
Brian — I was joking…
By Tony C.
November 16, 2007 11:26 PM | Link to this
Brian-yeah that’s my point I would like to see the division names be those of “the founding fathers” so to speak. I mean didn’t they invent an award for Messier already (Messier Leadership Trophy or something like that)???
Maybe they could create a “Patrick Roy Most Frustrating Goaltender to Play Against Trophy” or something like that…Personally, I think it’d be cool if there was a trophy for best goaltender during playoffs and call THAT the Roy Trophy.
Man it’s nice to watch this replay…Good D tonight!
GO BLUE !!! #17 OWNS YOU
By Rawhide
November 16, 2007 11:37 PM | Link to this
BRIAN - I too was kidding!!!
Boy, that Hoosa, White, Kovy line sure needs some work, eh?
(again,…a joke)!
By Brian
November 16, 2007 11:51 PM | Link to this
@$%#!!! Kari is going to be out for a while. During rehab today, Kari injured his groin again. This is an event of catastrophic proportions.
See, I can joke too…
By Rawhide
November 17, 2007 10:48 AM | Link to this
Hey! What are you still doing in here??? Go to the NEW Rawhide blog for Pete’s sake!