AJC > Sports Thrashers > Blog > Archives > 2007 > November > 11 > Entry
DEL.ICIO.USUmm, Don…You Have a Dilemma
The Atlanta Journal-Constitution
di·lem·ma (dÄ-lÄ•m’a) n.
- A situation that requires a choice between options that are or seem equally unfavorable or mutually exclusive.
- Usage Problem. A problem that seems to defy a satisfactory solution.
- Logic. An argument that presents two alternatives, each of which has the same consequence.
A dilemma (Greek “double proposition”) is a problem offering two solutions or possibilities, neither of which is either fully acceptable or fully unacceptable. The two options are often described as the horns of a dilemma, not a comfortable situation to sit upon. The dilemma is sometimes used as a rhetoricall device, in the form “you must accept either A, or B”; here A and B would be propositions each leading to some further conclusion. Applied in this way, it may be a fallacy, a false dichotomy.
Either way you define it, Don Waddell has dilemma. Specifically, in the goal of the Atlanta Thrashers team that he currently general manages and coaches. You see, on October 18th as the Thrashers were on their way to the first win of the season against the Rangers, Kari Lehtonen, their proclaimed number one starting goalie, left the game in the first period. It was his reoccurring groin problem and he was going to have to sit down until sometime in December. The team called up young net-minder Ondrej Pavelec from the Chicago Wolves to back up the 34 year-old veteran Johan Hedberg, a solid and reliable man to put between the pipes in a pinch. Simple enough, right?
Well, here is where it gets un-simple. Hedberg plays well enough in a support role. He helped to stabilize the team as it began the seven game road trip. When he had an off game in Ottawa, the rookie stepped in and played well. Well enough to earn a start in Tampa. He promptly goes on to win his first three career starts and has looked like the better of the three since that time. Even in last night’s loss, where he faced 39 shots, the only goal he allowed that looked “weak” to me was the third one, (Brind’Amour’s 2nd one that slid through the pads). The others? One off Klee’s skate, a power play goal in which the Hurricane’s captain was left alone in front of the net, three defenders pulled to one player on their fourth goal allowing Stillman to flip in a rebound, and the last one where three defenders failed to clear the puck from the crease.
So now, here is where Don’s dilemma comes in. Do you stick with the plan and, when Kari is healthy enough to play in a few weeks, send Opie back to the farm or do you opt to keep him around and do something with Moose or your “number one” goalkeeper?
At least he doesn’t have to jump off that bridge today. If so, how could you send the kid back to Chi-town with him sporting a winning record, a 2.71 GAA and a .917 SV%? Comparatively, Hedberg is 4-4 with a 3.77 GAA and .885 SV%. Lehtonen is 0-4, 4.48 and .879. Those numbers show Opie as your best option in the net. But then, if you keep him on the team, who goes away via re-assignment or by trade?
Does Don package one for a strong center or defenseman? If so, whom would he use as the bait to land such a deal? Opie? Shea-RIGHT! And face a complete revolt in Blueland? I don’t think so. How about Kari? Sounds logical, but who is going to even consider what is perceived as a glass-groined goalie much less offer up what we need in such a deal? Moose? Ok, I’m sure there is a need for a solid #2 guy out there, even a team or two in need of an adequate starter. But then, if you keep Opie and Kari, who starts and who sits? And do you really want to lose a goalie that is so respected and trusted in a back-up role?
Now, there are some would say that this is a good dilemma to have. Too much goaltending is akin to a baseball team having too many quality starters. No one is ever going to complain about that. But in hockey there is no bullpen to send the odd man out. So someone has to go somewhere next month.
Adding to the dilemma is that fact that right now the team is at a critical juncture. They seemed to have weathered the 0-6-0 start of the season by going 7-4-0 since. The season is still so young and the conference standings still so bunched enough that we find ourselves in the mix as far as playoffs are concerned. So, making the right choice here will keep us in the hunt. Choosing the wrong option could doom any opportunity to vie for Lord Stanley’s cup.
There is still about a month to go. Maybe if Kari is healthy enough at the beginning of the month Don tells him to take a few more weeks off, make sure he’s 100%…no, 110% ready. Still, that just delays the inevitable. Maybe by that time Opie shows he still isn’t quite ready for prime time yet thus making Waddell’s choice easy. Maybe, but I doubt it. Maybe a GM calls and makes an offer for one of them that is just too good to pass up; one that bolsters the squad and addresses the needs. Maybe, but those deals rarely just drop into one’s lap.
This is Don’s dilemma. May he choose wisely.
Comments
Commenting is now closed for this entry.
By BG33Brown
November 11, 2007 1:42 PM | Link to this
Winner, winner Chicken Dinner!?
By BG33Brown
November 11, 2007 2:06 PM | Link to this
I think it is obvious that Kari should be the one to go. The question is who needs a goaltender, and who does that team have at D or Center that we could get.
The way this has to play out is Kari comes back from injury, he has to start a few games and play well to show that he is in good health and hopefully we can make a trade for a Top 2 Center or Top Pairing Dman.
By John
November 11, 2007 2:19 PM | Link to this
I agree, Kari should probably be the one to go if a trade is to happen. However, nothing less than a top two center and D-man or 1st rounder would suffice.
Chances are extremely good that Kari ends up somewhere and lives up to full, injury free, potential and becomes someone else’s franchise goalie. Especially if he doesn’t have to face 35+ shots a night.
By B. Thenet
November 11, 2007 5:33 PM | Link to this
When Lehtonen gets healthy, Pavelec goes down.
The Thrashers are not going to trade Kari Lehtonen when his value is at a career low.
By Waffleboy
November 11, 2007 6:45 PM | Link to this
How can you even think about trading Lehtonen? He’s had a tough start, but the whole team has been playing better since the o-6 start. I refuse to believe they rallied around Hedberg and Pavelec. The defense has played better and they’re giving up fewer rebounds. Lehtonen will be given an opportunity when he comes back, but if he slips up, Waddell has to sit him.
By Brian
November 11, 2007 6:57 PM | Link to this
Rawhide - there are too many pros and cons to list and I can honestly say I am happy I am not the GM on this one.
As for your question about McCarthy in the lineup last night, I addressed that briefly in the other blog. Yes Rawhide, I post on Craig’s blog too. Why are you looking at me like a wife who just caught her husband with lipstick on his cheek???
By James
November 11, 2007 6:58 PM | Link to this
I rather have a goaltending glut than what we had at the start of 05-06 season.
I say trade Hedberg for a draft pick. He is in his contract year and does not play consistently to warrant a contract extension.
Pavelec is good, but we don’t know his true value until he plays a full season or two with us. Who knows? He may have groin issues as well once he startes playing more than 20 games a year.
If you look around the league, the Cup contenders seem to always have two solid goaltenders to lean on when the defense or offense struggles.
Split the duties between Pavelec and Lehtonen when Kari is healthy and maybe we will make it into the playoffs.
I further think our problems in goal will be much improved once we have a defense that can defend.
By Rawhide
November 11, 2007 7:13 PM | Link to this
OK, BRIAN - fine!! BE THAT WAY!! If you love that Craig Custance’s blog SOOOOoooooooo much,…just go RIGHT ON OVER THERE AND STAY!!
SEE IF I CARE!!
(HUFF)
By larry johnson
November 11, 2007 7:25 PM | Link to this
there should be no controversy whatsoever. does anybody remember two years ago when they were better off with trash cans in goal than what they were trotting out there? the kid is 20 years old and going back to the minors and playing every night is the best thing for him! lehtonen HAS to be the franchise goalie otherwise waddell looks like a bigger idiot than he does for taking coburn over phaneuf….oh and then trading coburn for an old man.
By Brian
November 11, 2007 7:36 PM | Link to this
larry johnson - every NHL publication had Coburn over Phaneuf in that draft, it must be nice to be you and play armchair QB and sound intelligent after the said drafted players have been in the league for a couple of years.
Oh, and everyone but you on this blog agrees that Zhitnik was a key force in us getting to the playoffs last year, that is momentum that I would take over a #3 or #4 d-man anyday of the week…
Then again, you would rather loose with Kari than win with Ondrej and call someone else an idiot. Why does Lehtonen HAVE to be the goalie? Doesn’t DW look good in that he drafted Pavelec or are you another one of the haters?
By Brian
November 11, 2007 7:42 PM | Link to this
larry johnson - look at the names below and tell everyone what kind of contribution they are making this year.
Pavelec
Enstrom
Little
Popovic
Perrin
White
Thorburn
By Ben
November 11, 2007 10:37 PM | Link to this
trade kl and a 2nd rounder next year for a center who can score. Enstrom is the future, keep him up. Remember, Sutton was here and he did good. Coburn will be good for Philly, he just needs people around him. Not everyone can be #17. FIRE DON WADELL!!!!!!!! Sell the Hawks and concentrate on the T-BIRDS!!! Can anyone outside of The Bulb name 3 players on the Hawks roster?
By Sharon
November 11, 2007 11:27 PM | Link to this
Ultimately, I’d like to see Lehtonen get traded. Between the wonky groin and the lack of mental toughness, he’s the odd man out. He may be young, but his age isn’t a factor in either issue. Talented, sure, but also chockful of flakiness. I’d be surprised if he ever overcame his physical and emotional issues.
By R. Stroz
November 12, 2007 1:15 AM | Link to this
I think I’ve thought of a way to get Zhitnik back in shape and increase his speed.
Does anyone remember that “goofy” camera that Dallas had which went around the top of the plexiglass last year?
Well, if you do, here is the Zhitnik cure.
First, install “goofy” rail cam assembly minus the camera.
Second, affix an attachement on the rail reaching one foot out toward the ice surface.
Third, attach a twinkie on the end of the attachment protruding form the rail cam assembly.
Fourth, turn on the rail cam and tell Zhitnik to catch the twinkie.
Fifth, at certain intervals slow the rail cam down so Zhitnik will jump up for the twinkie. In this way, maybe, Zhitnik could get a little more jump in his step.
By stendec
November 12, 2007 1:38 AM | Link to this
Keep the Kid. Keep Moose. Deal KL if anyone wants him and his paper mache groin. The Kid seems to be the type to take the Thrashers to the next level (despite lesser effort last time out). Moose is a dependable backup. Shatter the Kid’s confidence by catering to an injury-prone immature daydreamer then go watch Falcons. The Thrashers will be toast! This is a decision management simply CANNOT afford to bungle! Future Stanley Cups may depend on it. Do not scoff. I am dead serious! GO BLUE!
By Dave
November 12, 2007 6:08 AM | Link to this
Send Kari to the minors to get some hunger back in the kid. He hasn’t displayed any intensity since last year, and he doesn’t seem to be seeing the puck like he should. I’d send Kari to Chicago for a few weeks and make him realize he is expendable.
By Bill
November 12, 2007 7:04 AM | Link to this
Television coverage?, what’s the problem, I can’t remember the last time I saw a Thrashers game on TV, when will this problem be addressed?
By B. Thenet
November 12, 2007 7:52 AM | Link to this
As far as TV goes, this was the longest stretch the Thrashers will be off local TV all season.
I would rather miss games in October than miss games in March and April like last season.
By Robert
November 12, 2007 8:41 AM | Link to this
Why does Brian have to be such an A** to people who write on this blog?????
By Jack
November 12, 2007 9:01 AM | Link to this
I see this as an opportunity to unload a injury ridden player who has been, lets say, affected since the playoffs last season. As far as I’m concerned we have found our starting goalie that will be as good as Kari(if not better) and has his head screwed on right. As you can probably tell, I’m advocating the team to trade Kari for a #1 center or a quality defenseman. Preferrably the first but the latter wouldn’t be bad either.
By Brendan
November 12, 2007 10:31 AM | Link to this
Larry Johnson, first welcome to blog. All Thrashers fans are welcome here and our encouraged to share their thoughts and opinions, to which they are entitled.
Larry, this is painful for me to say, because I really like Moose Hedberg and know that his teammates really like him and support him, too. Hedberg won the “Teammate’s Teammate” Award last year. But, I’d move Hedberg, if a trade is to be made.
Hedberg is an unrestricted FREE AGENT at the end of this season, Larry. He very well could “walk” for nothing, like Marc Savard and, potentially, Marian Hossa. What GM wouldn’t want Hedberg as insurance down the stretch? Moving Moose at the trade deadline could fetch as high as a 2nd round pick, depending on how desperate a team’s need might be at that juncture. I’m not sure how willing another GM would be to part with a quality center just to add insurance in net before the playoffs start. Look, I realize we all want some combination of Cammalleri, Brown or Frolov in exchange for our most expendable goaltender, but Los Angeles is not going to make that trade. Getting a 2nd round pick from the Kings, who may or may not make the playoffs, could be a decent return in a talent-laden 2008 draft. We could be talking about a pick somewhere around 37-44. In the hands of a quality GM, that’s still fertile ground for finding someone.
Larry, you’ve pointed out that Kari needs to be the franchise goalie. Well, Waddell did invest a 2nd overall pick to get him, so I’m inclined to think he’s got to stay and continue to develop. But, as others have mentioned, Kari seems to have some “mental toughness” or “focus” problems. With that in mind, I see a Lehtonen-Pavelc “1-2 punch” as a potential solution for the Thrashers. Competition usually makes a BETTER product. I have no problem with a Pavelec-Lehtonen rotation next year, or even … to end this year. But, we’ll lose a year off Pavelec’s restricted free agency in the process.
If an RFA offer sheet comes in for Lehtonen, and it’s not the Red Wings, or some other perennial President’s Trophy candidate, Waddell could let him go in favor of the 1st round draft picks. The organization could always try to re-sign Moose as an unrestricted free agent this Summer. And we’d go with Moose and Pavelec next year, while we “load up” with those 1st round picks from the team who made the offer sheet.
Your thoughts??
By ranallo10
November 12, 2007 10:33 AM | Link to this
Robert — Brian’s just angry due to Rawhide’s huffiness. He’s been sat down in a corner and is counting to 10…happy Brian will be back again soon.
I don’t normally like double posting, but too bad today:
Three words for anybody wondering why something was not called in the Carolina game…
Michael “Mick” McGeough
He’s absolutely horrible…and no, I didn’t make this website.
He was standing near Perrin when he got hit in the face, called nothing and skated away. He was standing next to Hossa when he was held along the boards, called nothing and skated away. He’s worse than JP Vigier.
Re: Goalie “Controversy” — I may be a Pavelec fan, and have appreciated his contributions since he came to the US, but how many people really think he can truly LEAD this team to the playoffs? I’m not discounting his work ethic, skill, or anything like that, but I think it’s rather presumptuous to bank your season on a 20-year-old rookie goalie with 8 games of professional hockey experience (2 in the AHL) and a 34-year-old number 2 goalie.
Lehtonen has proven he can lead this team to the playoffs, I’d rather see him stay and Pavelec in Chicago than see Lehtonen dealt for an expiring contract or a number 2 defenseman. There is no such thing as too many good goalies in a system…it seemed to work well for Anaheim last year.
And for the record, if Ilja Bryzgalov can’t get proper return from any NHL teams, Kari Lehtonen has no chance of bringing the Thrashers that “missing piece”.
By ranallo10
November 12, 2007 10:41 AM | Link to this
Stroz — I’m in front of the Headlines Grill and behind Rabid Fan. I’ve got a great view of two periods of bad defense and good goaltending.
By ranallo10
November 12, 2007 10:56 AM | Link to this
(I love stacking comments, Hokie skips right over them)
By Matt H
November 12, 2007 11:00 AM | Link to this
Choose the wooden cup! He was the son of a carpenter!!!
By Rawhide
November 12, 2007 11:06 AM | Link to this
LJ, Jack - Nice to have you as part of the discussion. Hope to hear from you again soon.
RStoz - great idea,….I want design drawings and a R&D schedule on my desk by 5:00 today!
Now,….does anyone listen to 790 on the way in? Well, Sandra Golden did the Thrasher Report at about 8:19 or so,….she cited Don Waddell’s little problem in the goal,…what’s gonna happen when Kari returns??? Does “Opie” go back to Chicago??? (Yes she said “Opie”),…..even with the stats he has?? Is there a trade in the offing? Does Kari go down???
It was an excellent report.
Nice to have you along Ms. Golden.
By Bob
November 12, 2007 12:11 PM | Link to this
I don’t think there’s any doubt Waddell will send Pavelec back down when Kari is ready. Why? Because he can, and because he needs seasoning, you don’t want to burn a good prospect goalie out backstopping a bad defense.
I think the decision is next year, do you bring him up? I like Brendan’s idea of moving Moose at the deadline if there’s a need for him out there. But for now, Pavelec goes back down when Kari is ready. What’s the word on that anyway?
By Matt
November 12, 2007 12:14 PM | Link to this
Trade Lehtonen ? A 24 year old with just as much potential as any other young goalie in the league. He was not good in the playoffs last year, but anybody ready to blame him for the beat down you guys took to the blueshirts, is just looking for a scapegoat.
I can not believe you Thrashers fans would rather a 20 year old, with less than 5 games of NHL experience, to be your number 1 goalie instead of somebody with more experience, who lead you guys to the playoffs last year, had a decent GAA, 35 wins, a good save percentage, 4 shutouts and a BOATLOAD of saves for a team who is a below average defensive team.
Sure the kids numbers are better than Lehtonens and Hedbergs right now, but do you think if he was starting the first 6 games of the season his numbers would look so good ? Would you guys be 12-5 instead of 7-10 ? NO SHOT ! The thrashers have given up 64 goals this year and are 2nd worst in the league in shots against per game. The answer is not in the crease, its at the blueline.
By toph2o
November 12, 2007 12:41 PM | Link to this
Brendan hit the nail on the head I think. One other thing that hasn’t been mentioned is the 2 week “rehab assignment” provision in the current CBA. When Kari’s ready, he should spend 2 weeks in Chicago to prove it, assuming the ship in Atlanta is still sailing somewhat upright. The last time Kari was injured he didn’t do a rehab assignment because the team was desperately trying to make the playoffs at the end of the season and needed him back as soon as possible (though if you recall, that’s when Garnie posted back-to-back shutouts). After the two week rehab assignment is up, bring Kari back, send OP to Chicago where he can carry their very talented team deep into the playoffs and get some excellent playoff experience. Cross your fingers and pray someone offers a huge money RFA deal to Kari, take the draft picks and run. If nobody does, let Moose go after the season and go with two young, talented goaltenders next year (how many teams would like to be Montreal with Huet and Price right about now?)… And if Atlanta is out of the playoff race come the trade deadline, yes, listen to offers for Moose.
By Jack
November 12, 2007 12:46 PM | Link to this
Mattt that is good, and I’ll agree that Lehtonen wasn’t the only problem in the playoffs last year but giving up 7 goals in game 3 didn’t help our cause at all. Secondly, when he gives up soft goals(two or three a game) it makes me wonder if he’ll ever be a solid, go to #1 goalie. Think of the NJ game this season, that should have been our first win(or at least we should have gotten a point) but Lehtonen gave up that gimme goal with 21.6 seconds left to win the game.
By Brian
November 12, 2007 1:01 PM | Link to this
Robert - do the facts hurt you that much? All I did was state the facts. Poor baby…
By Thrasher Ryan
November 12, 2007 1:17 PM | Link to this
The soft goals and the history of injuries may have led to the end of Kari Lehtonen in Atlanta. I strongly believe that KL in a trade can bring Thrashers Top-line center or D-Man. I feel confident in Moose (much more than KL). Someone mentioned Bryzgalov. Maybe we could get him for some of our extra forwrds (Larsen, Slater). Plus, goaliwise, we still have Dan Turple and some kid from North Dakota we can call up(name slips me) if we have to. We are ok on goalie depth in the system. We have needed this center since Savard left. It is time to make the move.
By matt
November 12, 2007 1:24 PM | Link to this
Jack: I have not been able to watch many Thrashers games so I never got the chance to see Kari in action this year. Obviously, with the numbers he is showing, I take it there were soft ones here and there.
I remember stat tracking that NJ game on the computer, while my jaw was dropped the entire time wondering how they were blowing the game to a, at the time, struggling devil’s team (devil’s offense doesn’t strike me as a comeback unit either). When a team gives up that many goals, you are right, the Defense plays a part in it, but the goalie shares responsibility also. That game should have definitely been a win.
Here is a point though….. Rick Dipietro had a HERENDOUS year 2 years ago and really never came through for us in the playoffs. During that terrible year DP was constantly letting in soft goals, but also was managing to make incredible saves, showing us he can steal a game, and the consistency will come as the experience does. Last year and so far this year, DP has been one of the better goalies in the game and will continue to be for most of the ridiculous 15 yr contract we gave him.
Lehtonen has not had enough experience nor played in front of a good enough defense for anybody to make a definitive analysis of him. A faulty post season and a soft groin seem to have caused an uprising against him though. Being 6’4, 200 lbs and a former number 2 pick, I have always believed he had the potential and athletic ability to be that guy. Give him a shot. The thrashers have been playing much better on a consistent basis recently. I don’t think it is too far fetched to say Lehtonen would be also if he was in goal.
By toph2o
November 12, 2007 1:51 PM | Link to this
Turple isn’t ready for the AHL yet, and likely won’t ever see the NHL ice. Alex Kangas is a Freshman in college and there is absolutely no way he’s anything approaching ready. If anyone will be called up other than OP, it’ll be Fred Brathwaite.
By ranallo10
November 12, 2007 2:12 PM | Link to this
Thrasher Ryan — Bryzgalov was mentioned as a point of reference on how valuable a solid number 2 goalie is to the other 29 teams in the NHL. Anaheim has been shopping him since the draft, and has yet to find a suitable offer to send him off. Jonas Hiller is in their system and has a much more palatable contract as a backup goaltender, as well as the ability. If Bryzgalov (or another name like Halak of Montreal) cannot be shipped off though they have played good NHL level hockey and have no injury history, Lehtonen can definitely not be traded to another team for anything close to “fair” market value.
We’ve had this debate many times in the past, but re-sign Lehtonen’s RFA contract, let Hedberg go to free agency (or if you can get something in return for him, like a 3rd or 4th round pick), and give Pavelec some backup experience while Lehtonen continues to be the starter.
It’s not about who “NEEDS” to be the number 1 goalie, it’s about who truly IS the number 1 goalie…and based on last season it’s Lehtonen. Give him a true defensive corps and he’ll be a franchise goalie.
And by the way, even Martin Brodeur gives up “soft” goals, get over yourself if that’s what you judge a good or bad goalie on. “Soft” goals are only soft to those that are watching the game, clearly they’re hard as hell to those PLAYING the game.
By Robert
November 12, 2007 2:23 PM | Link to this
Facts don’t hurt me Brain….
But being a know it all “…My opion is the one that counts and your’s is BS…” nose up in the air “..My crap don’t stink..” rude jerk the way you treat people earns you no respect.
Listen to peoples comments with an open mind. Don’t down grade peoples thoughts. I read and think about your comments and alot of times I lean to your line of thought. Not always BUT I don’t try to down grade you when I don’t.
As for “Poor baby” comment…Why do you always want to put down or TRY to put down people? Are you that insecure?????
But I forgive you (Now I’ll go sit in the corner and repent)
By Robert
November 12, 2007 2:43 PM | Link to this
ranallo10
Good post on goalie situation. I agree.
By Tony C.
November 12, 2007 4:33 PM | Link to this
There’s another point I think could be made vis-a-vis the goalie situation: You don’t think Lehtonen’s been noticing how well Pavs has been playing? I’d be willing to be that The Kid is just waiting to get back out there. Yes, he did a nice job of negotiating his current deal, but he also has to know his stock isn’t nearly as high now (after playoff sweep and injury history). SO he KNOWS he has to be the goalie we’ve all thought he could be. Otherwise, he’s a talented backup making backup moeny or trade bait for the next 2-3 seasons. Everything is poised for #32 to come back and establish himself as the #1 that he (puportedly) and management desire him to be…
Isn’t it nice to have an embarassment of riches @ goalie? Just think back to few seasons ago, when my neighbor down the street was only half-joking about trying out for the team…we we scraping the bottom of the barrel that bad.
GO BLUE !!!
By sisu
November 12, 2007 5:59 PM | Link to this
Couple of things: 1. It was not a groin injury this time 2. Kari was 4 - 0 with a shut out in his first four games
So if you want to trade Lehtonen go ahead, Moose has been great signing in steadying the net minder situation, there is a reason why he was available. I would rather have Pasi than Moose if that was possible. Kari was supposed to be mentored by Pasi but we all know what happened there. Pavelic is going to be a good goalie, is he the second coming of Roy? Maybe
By Brendan
November 12, 2007 9:39 PM | Link to this
In the waning seconds of a 3-2 loss, Andy Sutton put high-hit check on one of the Flyers, whose back was turned at the time. A mini-scrum broke out between the Isles and Flyers. I wonder if the league will take a second look at the hit and determine if any disciplinary action is necessary. I wasn’t able to note if the refs called a penalty or not, as Center Ice tends to end its telecasts rather abruptly at times.
By Brian
November 12, 2007 10:20 PM | Link to this
Brendan - Sutton got 2 minutes for the cheapshot, I don’t know if it was roughing/boarding/charging or something else. Local police also are looking to arrest him for impersonating a pylon. Did you see with about 2 minutes left, he let them walk right in the zone…
By Rawhide
November 12, 2007 10:57 PM | Link to this
Did you see with about 2 minutes left, he let them walk right in the zone…
BRIAN - If I only had a dollar for everytime that could be said about Andy Sutton…
By Brendan
November 12, 2007 11:36 PM | Link to this
Mandy is Mandy. But he’s got to get control of his emotions. Going ‘head hunting’ with one (1) second left in a game is not ‘honorable’ conduct. In other news, Cole took a nasty headed into Thomas Vokoun’s pads and had to be stretchered off the ice. It didn’t look that severe at first. But it must have been. There was about a 10-minute delay before play resumed. The ‘Canes got a fluky late goal to win the game. Florida will come into town … angry.
By Brendan
November 12, 2007 11:41 PM | Link to this
Er, make that “header.” Cole has a history with neck injuries, so the medical personnel took extra precautions.
By Bill
November 13, 2007 2:44 AM | Link to this
For the first (and probably last time) I will try and compare the Thrashers to the Cleveland Browns. The Browns have a suprisingly quality starting QB in Derek Andersen with five-star prospect Brady Quinn waiting in the wings. The Thrashers have Kari Lehtonen who while proving he can be a stud between the pipes has yet to prove that he can be consistent game in and game out. The answer? Trade Kari, get some quality for him (preferably some D…)and allow Pavelec and Moose to carry the load for the rest of the season. Next October Ondrej is your clear number one netminder. As for the Brown’s QB situation, how about D’Angelo Hall plus a first round pick for Anderson?
By Brian
November 13, 2007 8:44 AM | Link to this
Bill - bad analogy (actually a very good analogy, but bad for us to do, you’ll see why). The Falcons were in the Cleveland Browns’ shoes and gave up Matt Schaub using your exact same logic. Granted we all like to play MMQB and make decisions after we see results (we should have picked Phaneuf over Coburn even though every scout in the league had Coburn higher!), but that move didn’t turn out so well for the Falcons. Now I don’t think Ondrej is running a dog fighting ring, but anything can cause a goalie to go down. Now if we somehow hold on to Moose and do that, I think it is much better…
By ToF
November 13, 2007 9:55 AM | Link to this
Bold: Rawhide: I like the Opie title for Pavelec, but it makes me think he should wear a helmet away from the rink as well.
As for our goalie situation…I think you shop all three. Look where you can get your best return and pull the trigger on that deal. We shouldn’t single out a player because we then limit our possible return. I honestly think Ondrej the Giant (yes I am using my name for him on Rawhide’s blog…hooray arrogance) would bring the best return. He won back to back Jacque Plante awards and hasn’t proven that he is human at the NHL level yet. Granted, GMs hate giving much away for a young, unestablished netminder. Kari, on the otherhand, is at an alltime low in value. His recurring injuries and coupled with the fact that he is a bit of a flake (thus far) make it hard form us to really get anything in return to make the deal worth it. Then there is Moose. You don’t get much for a back-up plain and simple, no matter how respected they are.
Take the fact that we really don’t have assets in net that most GMs would pay heavily for with the fact that we aren’t the only team with a glut of netminding. Ottawa, Anaheim, and Montreal all have more proven netminders (at the moment) to deal.
Therefore, I say it again, we shop all three and see what there is to get in return.
By ranallo10
November 13, 2007 11:20 AM | Link to this
ToF — Personally, I’d rather just field calls from other GMs about those goalies and stand pat. The three teams you mentioned have BEEN shopping their excess goalies, and haven’t had a taker yet. The return value isn’t there, nobody seemingly wants to trade a young or proven talent for someone else’s backup goaltender.
The last quality backup to be traded (Toskala) was acquired for a draft pick and a recovering alcoholic due a suspension for a DUI and hit-and-run.
By ranallo10
November 13, 2007 11:33 AM | Link to this
Sorry, i worded that trade poorly. Toskala was acquired WITH a recovering alcoholic for only draft picks.
By Lew39
November 13, 2007 12:26 PM | Link to this
I think it’s too soon to make call on Pav. He is new to the league and although playing well now, you have no idea of what may be down the road.
By Lew39
November 13, 2007 12:37 PM | Link to this
I think it’s too soon to make call on Pav. He is new to the league and although playing well now, you have no idea of what may be down the road.
Kari on the other hand has some issues. The known physical groin issue is there, however the question marks are: Is he or was he in shape this year, Did Hartley over play him last year (reading into Holik’s comments on over using younger players)?
Kari has more experience, is still young, and could be a franchise player. it’s too soon to tell with Pav as to what he can and will do.
Moose is a consumate team player but has never been a #1 for a team. No doubt about his skill set. So after all of this….I wouldn’t jump to do anything.
The offense had been Kovi for the most part (God, never let him go, he has matured so much). This will be a better team when Hossa shakes whatever it is that’s holding him back from beign Hossa and Kozlov starts scoring more.
Time to some extent is on our side. We can only get better
By puckjunque
November 13, 2007 1:32 PM | Link to this
Allright Everyone………
Bow your heads, hands joined on the keyboards,
Oh Heavenly Father, Thank you for the many blessings you have bestowed upon the Thrashers. Please empower the Thrashers with the skills, confidence and determination to win tonight and to kick some panther a$$! AMEN!
By Brian
November 13, 2007 1:49 PM | Link to this
puckjunque - we concur
By Rawhide
November 13, 2007 1:49 PM | Link to this
A-FREAKIN’-MEN!!!! Well said PJ!
Now let’s go PUMMEL the PANT-TURDS!!!!
By ToF
November 13, 2007 1:49 PM | Link to this
ranallo I meant that we shouldn’t single out one of our goalies to trade. We should see who gets the best return. We let other GMs know that all three can be had for the right price and then we wait.
By ranallo10
November 13, 2007 2:18 PM | Link to this
ToF — When the time comes to trading a goalie, I can somewhat agree with that philosophy. I don’t feel the time is now though.
By Tony C.
November 13, 2007 3:36 PM | Link to this
Until this franchise has an entire season of injury-free goaltending, trading a goalie should not be a serious consideration.
my $0.02
I mean we’re one more groin pull from Freddy Brathwaite time.
Think about it.
By Brian
November 13, 2007 3:43 PM | Link to this
Tony C. - good point, whatever happened to Michael Garnett?
By ranallo10
November 13, 2007 3:54 PM | Link to this
He’s playing in Russia.
By Tony C.
November 13, 2007 5:38 PM | Link to this
I have no idea, but I liked his (Garnie’s) mask. Fire is always cool.
By Thrasher Ryan
November 13, 2007 6:12 PM | Link to this
Tony C. - good point, whatever happened to Michael Garnett?
He’s playing in Russia.
I have no idea, but I liked his (Garnie’s) mask. Fire is always cool.
Yes, Ranallo is right. Waddell let Garnett walk the same day as he let Brad Schell and Ranallo’s favorite player, JPVJ, walk.
By R. Stroz
November 13, 2007 9:39 PM | Link to this
puckjunque - Amen! Amen! Amen!
By Tony C.
November 13, 2007 11:27 PM | Link to this
Ok also, no offense intended to Salei, but I can’t wait to see more of this face on opposition skaters’ @ The Flatscreen.
GO BLUE !!!
By Brendan
November 13, 2007 11:52 PM | Link to this
I notice that the Panthers are struggling a bit, too. I think they’re some four (4) games under .500, and have been prone to a series of 3rd period collapses. They’re +5 through two periods, but are a -16 in the 3rd. Maybe that’s conditioning? Maybe that’s strategy? Maybe it’s just inability to play with a lead? But whatever it is, if you look at the recent draft history, say back to 2001, you’d have thought the Florida Panthers would be enjoying greater success?
The truth? They’ve been out of the playoffs since 2000, when they were swept out by New Jersey, with a 12-6 goal differential. The Cats last playoff win was April 17, 1997, 3-0, versus the NY Rangers, in a series they lost, 4-1, as the higher-seeded favorite (#4 vs. #5). The Rangers won three one-goal games, two in overtime, including the series clincher in Game Five.
The GM’s responsible for one (1) playoff berth in nine (9) seasons (That’s 10 years, if you count the lockout), dating back to 1998? Bryan Murray (1994-2000), Bill Torrey (2000-2001), Chuck Fletcher (2001-2002), Rick Dudley (2002-2004), Mike Keenan (2004-2006), Jacques Martin (2006-Present).
What about the Panthers’ Drafting? Ready for this, folks? In their History, which dates back to 1992, the Panthers have only drafted higher than 17th overall, three times. In 2006, they didn’t pick until 45th overall and in 2003, they selected 22nd overall. And 25th overall in 2005. Wanna hear the names that passed through?
1992: 13th overall, Joe Hulbig (??) They picked Bryan Rasmussen 253rd overall, for you trivia buffs.
1993: 7th overall, Jason Arnott, 16th overall, Nick Shajduhar (??), 33rd overall, David Vyborny. 111th overall, Miro Satan.
1994: 4th overall, Jason Bonsignore, 6th overall, Ryan Smyth.
1995: 6th overall, Steve Kelly (??), 31st overall, Georges Laraque.
1996: 6th overall, Boyd Devereaux, 19th overall, Matthieu Descoteaux, 59th overall, Tom Poti, 195th overall, Fernando Pisani.
1997: 14th overall, Michel Riesen, 121st overall Jason Chimera.
1998: 13th overall, Michael Henrich. 99th overall, Shawn Horcoff, 213th overall, Christian Lefebvre.
1999: 13th overall, Jani Rita, 36th overall, Alexei Semenov, 91st overall, Mike Comrie.
2000: 17th overall, Alexei Mikhnov, 211th Joe Cullen, 215th, Matthew Lombardi.
2001: 13th overall, Ales Hemski, 133rd overall, Goaltender Jussi Markkanen, of the 2006 Finals fame.
2002: 16th overall, Jesse Ninimaki. 36th overall, Jarret Stoll
2003: 22nd overall, Marc-Antoine Pouliot.
2004: 14th overall, Devan Dubnyk, 25th overall, Rob Schremp.
2005: 25th overall, Andrew Cogliano.
The Panthers basically drafted the 2006 Oilers, Stanley Cup Finalists, what with Ryan Smyth, Fernando Pisano, Jarret Stoll, Ales Hemsky, Shawn Horcoff, and Jussi Markkanen on that roster.